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Speaker 1: I'm Katie Kurgan. Welcome to a bonus episode everyone of

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Speaker 1: Back to Biz with Katie and Bow's only it's just

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Speaker 1: me for this one. Don't worry, though, Bose and I

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Speaker 1: are cooking up some ideas and we'll be back to

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Speaker 1: biz together before too long. In the meantime, I'm really

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Speaker 1: happy to share a very interesting conversation I had with

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Speaker 1: Disney's executive chairman, Bob Igor. Bob has spent more than

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Speaker 1: forty years working for companies that are now part of Disney.

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Speaker 1: In two thousand five, he took over as CEO and

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Speaker 1: transformed the beloved brand into a global powerhouse through a

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Speaker 1: series of bold acquisitions. Pixar, Marvel, and Lucas Film all

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Speaker 1: joined the Mouse hask during his tenure. Maybe the most

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Speaker 1: impressive part, though, is that he did it all while

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Speaker 1: gaining a reputation is one of the nicest, most respected

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Speaker 1: guys around. He told the story of his remarkable life

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Speaker 1: and career in his recent memoir The Ride of a Lifetime,

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Speaker 1: and stepped down as CEO in February of this year.

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Speaker 1: What he didn't know at the time, though, was that

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Speaker 1: there was one more unexpected turn he'd have to navigate

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Speaker 1: before his ride was over. Shortly after his resignation, the

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Speaker 1: pandemic hit and the world changed seemingly overnight, particularly for Disney,

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Speaker 1: a company built on in person experiences like theme parks, movies, sports,

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Speaker 1: and cruise lines. Bob Iger is back in the saddle

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Speaker 1: again and is leading Disney through perhaps the most challenging

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Speaker 1: time of it's nearly one year history. We talked about

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Speaker 1: how he's managing this moment, along with all the other

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Speaker 1: twists and turns in his career, and also a lot

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Speaker 1: about what shaped him and what makes a good leader.

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Speaker 1: My husband was so cute this morning. He said Bob's

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Speaker 1: book was the best business book he'd ever read. He

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Speaker 1: said it was so full of humanity, empathy, and humility,

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Speaker 1: and I thought that was such a nice thing to

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Speaker 1: say that I wanted to pass it along. Thank you.

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Speaker 1: As for a nice I was, I must say I've been.

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Speaker 1: I've been really humbled by reactions to it, including Bill Gates,

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Speaker 1: who this summer chose there was one of the five

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Speaker 1: books you have to read this summer, which totally surprised me.

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Speaker 1: It's very nerve wracking to put yourself out there and

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Speaker 1: you know, be so vulnerable and exposed right, Yes, and

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Speaker 1: I was anxious about it. I was very anxious about it.

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Speaker 1: What were you worried about? I was worried about feeling

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Speaker 1: to self or or looking too self important your face

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Speaker 1: on the cover of the book, like who who is

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Speaker 1: the right to do that? You know? Um? And I

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Speaker 1: was worried about it, just not resonating. I tried to

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Speaker 1: tell stories that were interesting, but who knew until people

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Speaker 1: actually read them whether they would be or not. But

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Speaker 1: more than anything, I just was self conscious about it.

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Speaker 1: I didn't want to appear to be bigger, better, more

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Speaker 1: important than I really really was. And blowing your own horn, well,

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Speaker 1: I think you have every right to do that, and

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Speaker 1: that's one of the reasons I think people gravitate to you, Bob,

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Speaker 1: because of your humility. So let's talk a little bit

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Speaker 1: about your career, about the book, some personal stories as well.

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Speaker 1: I know you postponed your retirement four times since two

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Speaker 1: thousand thirteen, but in February of this year you finally

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Speaker 1: stepped down as Disney CEO. Then the pandemic hit. Take

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Speaker 1: me through your decision to take back the reins and

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Speaker 1: take on what certainly will be I would guess some

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Speaker 1: of the biggest challenges of your career. Well, I made

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Speaker 1: a decision, after spending almost fifteen years as CEO to

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Speaker 1: step down, believing that change his real value to companies,

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Speaker 1: that you can stay too long. Uh, And I've I've

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Speaker 1: seen that happen to others, and I didn't want it

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Speaker 1: to happen to me. And so I was intent on

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Speaker 1: going at what I believe was the right time, and

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Speaker 1: also kind of going out feeling that I had accomplished

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Speaker 1: a lot, and not tempting fate either that invariably, you know,

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Speaker 1: all of the good things can you know, quickly be

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Speaker 1: replaced by bad things like who knew by the way? Um?

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Speaker 1: And so in November I articulated that to the board

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Speaker 1: and stuck to it. And the plan was for me

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Speaker 1: to focus just on the creative side of our business,

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Speaker 1: believing that the best thing I could do for my

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Speaker 1: successor would be to leave the company with a very

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Speaker 1: rich pipeline of great movies and television shows and theme

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Speaker 1: park attractions and the like. And it just seemed like

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Speaker 1: a great plan. And then the pandemic kit and we

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Speaker 1: decided really as a board that we would um stay

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Speaker 1: the course that I was not going to step back

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Speaker 1: into the CEO role. And I really have not done that.

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Speaker 1: I know you mentioned taking back the reins. My goal

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Speaker 1: was really too focus on the creative side, as A

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Speaker 1: just mentioned, and also work to make sure that my

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Speaker 1: successor was successful. And I really haven't done anything differently

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Speaker 1: in that regard. Because the pandemic is the biggest crisis

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Speaker 1: that the company has ever faced. Of course he would

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Speaker 1: turn to me for more support than anything else and

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Speaker 1: and advice. Um, and I wouldn't in any way you

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Speaker 1: want to abandon him or the company in an hour

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Speaker 1: of our you know, basically you know our biggest need.

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Speaker 1: So I didn't take back the reins, but I made

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Speaker 1: sure I was there for him in what we're the hardest,

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Speaker 1: most difficult times, brand new CEO. So I've I haven't left,

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Speaker 1: which is which in the intention was that I wouldn't.

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Speaker 1: I've mostly stuck to the plan which is focused on

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Speaker 1: the creative and helped him succeed as he as time

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Speaker 1: has passed and he's gotten more comfortable in this chair

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Speaker 1: during a crisis. Uh, he's relied on me us and

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Speaker 1: less in that regard, and it's it's working just fine.

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Speaker 1: But he knows that and the company knows that I'm

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Speaker 1: there for them, um, you know, should they need it. So,

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Speaker 1: if you're making it clear you're not running the show,

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Speaker 1: but are you spending sort of your days still focused

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Speaker 1: on Disney business. I'm spending my days focused on Disney's

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Speaker 1: creative business and where there are huge decisions to be

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Speaker 1: made the effect the company, you know, in profound ways.

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Speaker 1: Bob Jabok, who's my successor, consults with me on those issues.

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Speaker 1: I am still chairman of the board and so I

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Speaker 1: have a role to play there. But the day to

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Speaker 1: day operation of the company, save for its creative processes,

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Speaker 1: is his responsibility. Gee, Disney was so exposed during this pandemic. Obviously,

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Speaker 1: with so many businesses built on in person experiences. Bob,

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Speaker 1: you're talking about theme parks and sports and movies and

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Speaker 1: cruise lines. So how do you even start managing what

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Speaker 1: a nightmare? This is very difficult, and the first thing

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Speaker 1: we had to do was to admit that things were

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Speaker 1: going to get shut down. In some cases we did

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Speaker 1: so proactively where we made decisions. Disneyland was one of

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Speaker 1: those that we just had to shut it down before

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Speaker 1: any government said you must shut down. In other cases,

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Speaker 1: we were kind of either ordered to or strongly suggested

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Speaker 1: that we should shut down. And you just have to

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Speaker 1: accept those decisions. Uh. And and the reality that not

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Speaker 1: only the country, but the world was so exposed to

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Speaker 1: a disease that it hadn't really seen before. Uh. And

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Speaker 1: then when when you know, one business after the other

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Speaker 1: basically closed its doors, we had to immediately look at

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Speaker 1: the financial underpinning of the company, the health of its employees, UM,

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Speaker 1: how we were going to manage you know, what would

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Speaker 1: have would what would would normally have been kind of

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Speaker 1: normal processes, which has profits and lasses and expenses, etcetera.

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Speaker 1: And and people under circumstances that we could never anticipate.

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Speaker 1: So it was it's almost hard to describe, but it's

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Speaker 1: an all hands on deck approach. All senior management had

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Speaker 1: to be involved. I'm a big believer in times like

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Speaker 1: this too, you know quote Churchill about keeping common carrying on.

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Speaker 1: But I'm also a big believer in candor and not

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Speaker 1: in any way um ignoring reality which is really important,

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Speaker 1: which is looking everybody in a ands and saying this

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Speaker 1: is the toughest circumstances or circumstances the company has ever faced.

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Speaker 1: We are Disney. We are going to get through this.

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Speaker 1: I don't know when. We don't know when, but we

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Speaker 1: will and we're in it together. And there are things

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Speaker 1: that are going to have to be addressed that will

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Speaker 1: be tough, but um, that's the reality of our lives today.

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Speaker 1: Since you're a big believer in candor, a lot of

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Speaker 1: businesses and leaders like you and others have had to

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Speaker 1: really fill a vacuum of national leadership and the and

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Speaker 1: in the course of this crisis. And I'm curious what

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Speaker 1: you think of, uh, the leadership that is coming out

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Speaker 1: of the government right now or lack thereof. How would

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Speaker 1: you assess it? As someone who knows very well how

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Speaker 1: to deal with crisis situations. Well, I've tried not to

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Speaker 1: be too openly critical of either the president or the administration,

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Speaker 1: but I think the facts speak for themselves that it

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Speaker 1: was it's now very clear to us, But I think

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Speaker 1: it should have been clear at the beginning that the

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Speaker 1: impact of this was going to be significant and had

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Speaker 1: to be dealt with swiftly. Uh. And while I realized

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Speaker 1: there's a need to act comes we just discussed, UM,

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Speaker 1: I think the need to um face the truth, uh,

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Speaker 1: and in facing the to contend with it in effective

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Speaker 1: ways is critical and I don't believe, looking back on

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Speaker 1: this now over six month period of time, that is

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Speaker 1: a country we did that. I think it would have

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Speaker 1: been very important early on to call it what it was,

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Speaker 1: which is a wide scale pandemic, and to take action

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Speaker 1: immediately to contend with it. I'm trying, I'm trying not

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Speaker 1: to be too directly critical, because you know, it wasn't

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Speaker 1: It wasn't a situation I had to contend with, although

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Speaker 1: it was a situation the senior management of the Walt

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Speaker 1: Disney Company had to contend. And how do you think

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Speaker 1: that you all did? Did it differently than the US government?

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Speaker 1: I mean, we're what what things did you put into

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Speaker 1: practice that the for example, the president or even the

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Speaker 1: Coronavirus Task Force did not. Well, we shut down right away.

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Speaker 1: Obviously that had a big help. It was a big help.

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Speaker 1: Where we had any business being conducted. We resorted to

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Speaker 1: very very strict, a very very strict high gene regime,

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Speaker 1: which included social distancing, mask wearing, hand washing, uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: cleaning in the extreme as it for instance, left no

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Speaker 1: stone unturned, tried to get access to rapid, wide scale testing.

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Speaker 1: I think the whole country's had issues with that very

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Speaker 1: very difficult to do, so testing never became a true solution,

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Speaker 1: but we basically devoted significant resources to whatever we could

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Speaker 1: have access to that could make the situation better, which

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Speaker 1: resulted in some continued productivity. Most of our production TV

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Speaker 1: and movies was shut down, but we were able to create,

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Speaker 1: you know, enough work from home to continue on. We

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Speaker 1: created with the NBA the bubble in the in Orlando

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Speaker 1: to enable the national basketball season to continue, which was extraordinary.

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Speaker 1: That might be a good example of throwing resources at

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Speaker 1: a problem as opposed to just saying the problem doesn't exist. Um.

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Speaker 1: But and and we've been managed to reopen every one

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Speaker 1: of our parks around the world except for California, under

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Speaker 1: circumstances that are extraordinary and not optimum. But but we've

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Speaker 1: been opened in Shanghai for quite a long time now.

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Speaker 1: Were you worried about Bob reopening of Disney World in

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Speaker 1: Florida in Orlando in July despite the fact that coronavirus

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Speaker 1: cases were spiking in the state at the time. I

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Speaker 1: was worried, um, and I think it was unfortunate we

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Speaker 1: made a decision to open then and to recall thousands

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Speaker 1: and thousands of our employees to do so and had

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Speaker 1: created momentum, and then there was a spike in cases

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Speaker 1: in Florida. So the timing wasn't great from a headline perspective,

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Speaker 1: but the um initiatives that we were the in the

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Speaker 1: steps that we took to reopen, we're so strict in

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Speaker 1: terms of protecting our own people and our guests that

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Speaker 1: in reality, what was going on around us was less

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Speaker 1: of an issue as long as we were adhering to

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Speaker 1: the regime that we created, and we've had no problem.

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Speaker 1: It's incredible what's been done. Of course, we're limiting severely

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Speaker 1: the number of people that are in that are let in,

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Speaker 1: and when you come in, there are restrictions, but we're

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Speaker 1: adhering to them, and the people who are visiting are

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Speaker 1: adhering to them. And it's been working. It's been working

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Speaker 1: in Shanghai, and it's been working in Japan and Tokyo,

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Speaker 1: and we're not open in California yet. We're we're actually

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Speaker 1: surprised and somewhat disappointed that we haven't been able to

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Speaker 1: Probably a good time to go to a theme park.

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Speaker 1: You don't have to wait too long to get a turro, no,

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Speaker 1: but if you get a curo, you can't walk around

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Speaker 1: and eat it because we require a mask wearing. So

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Speaker 1: we've actually, we've actually set up I'll call it snack

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Speaker 1: zones where you can stand apart from others and eat,

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Speaker 1: eat your curo or your popcorn, or your ice cream,

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Speaker 1: or turkey leg your turkey leg, of course, and not

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Speaker 1: put anybody in jeopardy. I don't think I don't think

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Speaker 1: turkey legs don't transmit COVID. Fortunately, Sons of Bust. We'll

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Speaker 1: have more with Disney's executive chairman Bob Igor right after

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Speaker 1: this Welcome back. Here's more of my conversation with Bob Iger.

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Speaker 1: When do you think things are going to get back

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Speaker 1: to normal? I mean, do you kind of look on

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Speaker 1: the horizon and think, or is it? Is it ever

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Speaker 1: going to be what it was? I look every day

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Speaker 1: the horizon. Um, my sense is that the only way

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Speaker 1: we return to some semblance of normalcy is with a vaccine,

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Speaker 1: a widespread meaning widely available, effective vaccine. Until that happens,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't appear that steps to the been taken, which

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Speaker 1: is largely social distancing mask wearing, would be enough to

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Speaker 1: cause people to return to some semblance of normal. And

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Speaker 1: you know every day we read headlines. Today there was

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Speaker 1: one about Johnson and Johnson going to a third sixty

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Speaker 1: people and you know, my my mood lifts immediately when

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Speaker 1: I see something like that. But I think that's what

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Speaker 1: it will take. I believe that forced mask wearing and

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Speaker 1: social distancing and other forms of hygiene will enable more

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Speaker 1: and has enabled more. But unfortunately, we've seen either people

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Speaker 1: not believing in the effectiveness of that or just basically,

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Speaker 1: you know, being defiant about it. Yeah, when you see that,

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Speaker 1: just just I mean, I don't get it. Doesn't it

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Speaker 1: make you scratch your head and think WTF? Yes, it does. Um,

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Speaker 1: it's hard to believe people would be defiant when they're

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Speaker 1: putting their lives and other people's lives and jeopardy, which

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Speaker 1: is exactly what's happening. And I don't think that point

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Speaker 1: has been made enough. And science, I think has proven

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Speaker 1: that mask wearing, for instance, can be a very effective

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Speaker 1: tool to preventing the spread of this disease. I just

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Speaker 1: don't know why people don't accept that. Because they're hearing

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Speaker 1: otherwise from their news outlets, Bob, that's why. And because

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Speaker 1: we have a president who doesn't wear a mask. That's why, well,

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Speaker 1: role positive role models would help for sure. Look where

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Speaker 1: we're a country of individuals and individuals and freedom. I

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Speaker 1: just spent some time in in Croatia and it was

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Speaker 1: interesting because, um, no one seems to have any problem

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Speaker 1: whatsoever adhering to the rules. There are signs everywhere, and

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Speaker 1: I did not see other than people walking around outside

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Speaker 1: social distance where there was not not mask wearing. You

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Speaker 1: were not allowed into any building, including small shops, restaurants,

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Speaker 1: et cetera, without wearing one, and I didn't see anyone

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Speaker 1: defying that. Let's talk about some good news, shall we,

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Speaker 1: and that is that Disney Plus is already kicking ass. Congratulations.

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Speaker 1: I like to do it a podcast. I can say

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Speaker 1: things like kicking ass and forgot we're not on the

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Speaker 1: Today's Show. And you've racked up more than sixty million

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Speaker 1: subscribers since November, so congratulations. Um, how do you think

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Speaker 1: streaming is going to to change the business model of

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Speaker 1: traditional networks? Because you were at the helm of you know,

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Speaker 1: ABC for so long, and I'm curious, especially now that

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Speaker 1: streamers are doing kind of ad models as well, and

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Speaker 1: not just pure streaming. I think technology has thoroughly disrupted

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Speaker 1: the way in which people consume media entertainment. It began

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Speaker 1: really with the Internet and you know what people were accessing,

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Speaker 1: whether it was form video or news headlines or whatever.

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Speaker 1: Um and it has quickly spread to all forms of

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Speaker 1: media in terms of the disruptive nature of it, and

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Speaker 1: the speed of disruption is only increased, it hasn't slowed

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Speaker 1: at all. And what we're seeing is a consumer that

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Speaker 1: is exercising far more authority because that's what technology is

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Speaker 1: enabling them. How they watch things, what they watch, when

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Speaker 1: they watch them or consume them, where they consume them,

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Speaker 1: and how much they pay for them. All of those

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Speaker 1: things are things now that the consumer is having more

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Speaker 1: of an impact on than the distributor and the creator.

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Speaker 1: And what we have to do is what we did

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Speaker 1: is a company, and I think what the industry needs

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Speaker 1: to do is you need to pay heat to that.

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Speaker 1: You need to go and go where the consumer is.

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Speaker 1: You can't force the consumer to go where you are anymore.

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Speaker 1: You have to go to them. And what I mean

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Speaker 1: by that is you have to provide them with the

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Speaker 1: experience that they want. And these days it has to

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Speaker 1: be flexibility, what device to watch on, where to watch um.

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Speaker 1: It has to be flexibility in terms of packages of

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Speaker 1: product that they buy. They don't want to buy things

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Speaker 1: that they never want to consume as for instance. That

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Speaker 1: obviously affects pricing. Timing is a big deal. They want

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Speaker 1: to watch things when they want to watch them. I

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Speaker 1: want to watch it on this, Yeah, this or or

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Speaker 1: or this or whatever. You know, we can name a box. Look,

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Speaker 1: they still watch on a lot of fixed screens on

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Speaker 1: the wall. We call them television sets. He's come TVs

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Speaker 1: and now they're monitors. I think screen people still do that.

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Speaker 1: But but then how they how they get the product

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Speaker 1: to put on those screens is more in their control

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Speaker 1: than some network television schedulers control. But what we decided

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Speaker 1: to do was first of all kind of SCE similar

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Speaker 1: to what we were talking about earlier about recognizing a

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Speaker 1: problem and dealing with it. Is we recognize the disruptive

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Speaker 1: nature of all of this, that business was never going

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Speaker 1: to return to normal. It had changed forever, would continue

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Speaker 1: to and unless we change, we were going to quickly

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Speaker 1: become irrelevant and and unprofitable. I would say, you're a

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Speaker 1: visionary guy. Why didn't you get into it earlier? Bob? Well,

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Speaker 1: I you know, it's that's easier said than done. I

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Speaker 1: don't mean we mean to sound defensive about it, because

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Speaker 1: we got into it early enough in that we are

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Speaker 1: we're doing fine. We as as the case with a

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Speaker 1: lot of legacy businesses, you have a big profitable business

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Speaker 1: to continue to protect and too and to mine profitability

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Speaker 1: and you're measured. There's a lot of responsibility associated with

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Speaker 1: that with shareholders and customers and employees and board of

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Speaker 1: directors to continue to deliver as much profitably as possible,

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Speaker 1: much profits as possible from the businesses you're in. And

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Speaker 1: so it's not an easy thing to pivot to a

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Speaker 1: new business that is not only not going to be

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Speaker 1: as profitable right away, but will be directly disruptive to

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Speaker 1: the business as you were in. And then in addition

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Speaker 1: to that is having the wherewithal to do it, not

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Speaker 1: just financially, but the technological wherewithal and the personnel wherewithal,

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Speaker 1: meaning the right people in the right technology, which we

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Speaker 1: ultimately ended up having to acquire. And it wasn't until

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Speaker 1: we did that. We brought a platform called bam Tech

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Speaker 1: from Major League basement. It wasn't until we did that

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Speaker 1: that we really had the confidence that we had the

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Speaker 1: technology platform to deliver what we wanted. So first came

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Speaker 1: the admission that there was disruption and we had to

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Speaker 1: change saying. Came the decision to disrupt ourselves and go

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Speaker 1: for a third came the acquisition of the technology to

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Speaker 1: basically power it all. And then forth came creating content

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Speaker 1: for that after we articulated the vision to Wall Street.

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Speaker 1: And then last came execution. Yeah, you know, I think

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Speaker 1: I think the balancing act is such an important thing.

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Speaker 1: You know, when I was in traditional news media, I

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Speaker 1: kept on pushing to do more digital content, to really

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Speaker 1: try to convince people. As early as two thousand and

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Speaker 1: six when I went to CBS, there was so much

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Speaker 1: resistance because I think it's very hard for people to

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Speaker 1: wrap them around two different business models, the latter which

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Speaker 1: may actually hurt the former, right, and then there's so

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Speaker 1: many there are so many barriers to a company uh

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Speaker 1: disrupting itself, and the innovator's dilemma is very very real.

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Speaker 1: I faced that it's everything from compensation to just ingrain

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Speaker 1: habits to protective um measures to keep a traditional business going.

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Speaker 1: We do tend typically to um try to preserve the

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Speaker 1: past more than we should and in doing so it

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Speaker 1: often can get in the way of the future. I'm

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Speaker 1: just curious, UM, if you've talked to Jeff free Catzenberg

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Speaker 1: about Quimby, because that's been a tough road to hoe,

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Speaker 1: as they say, uh, starting this new service, the pandemic hits,

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Speaker 1: and people don't seem to necessarily, you know, want to

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Speaker 1: watch these short films on their phones. Have you talked

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Speaker 1: to him and pivot? I have talked to him. His

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Speaker 1: vision was for short form product to be consumed on

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Speaker 1: mobile devices only, UM, a code in the white space

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Speaker 1: of people's lives while they were commuting, in between everything else.

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Speaker 1: And I think because of the pandemic um that obviously

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Speaker 1: that opportunity evaporated and and and consumption patterns changed completely.

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Speaker 1: I think that's one of the issues. I also think

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Speaker 1: he entered a marketplace that was far more competitive, far

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Speaker 1: more difficult than he had envisioned. Will it live to

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Speaker 1: see another day? I don't know. I don't. I haven't

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Speaker 1: spoken to him very spoken with him very recently, But

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Speaker 1: I don't know. Hashtag bummer right, Yes, it's a bummer.

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Speaker 1: I thought he had a lot of promise the bummer

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Speaker 1: for him, but you know, yes, Yeah, Well, Jeffrey will

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Speaker 1: do something else. I'm sure, because he's that kind of person.

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Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you one other streaming question, UM,

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Speaker 1: about a quote you made recently. Uh. What Netflix is

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Speaker 1: doing is making content to support a platform. We're making

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Speaker 1: content to tell great stories. It's very different. Okay, Bob,

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Speaker 1: I have to I have to quible with that quote.

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Speaker 1: Because you think of movies like Roma, you think of

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Speaker 1: series like Unbelievable. I was the executive producer of that

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Speaker 1: so shameless plug. You think of you know, the Irishman,

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Speaker 1: you think of cheer. Uh. That sounds like pretty good

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Speaker 1: storytelling to me, Bob, Yes that. I think Netflix has

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Speaker 1: made a lot of great stories, or bought a lot

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Speaker 1: of great stories. Sure. Um, I know when I said that,

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Speaker 1: I think what I meant was they created the platform

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Speaker 1: and filled it with a volume of of storytelling. Um.

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Speaker 1: That is much larger than than the volume that we

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Speaker 1: have on Disney plus um. And because they really began

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Speaker 1: not as a content company but as a platform, which

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Speaker 1: is very different. We began as a storytelling and a

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Speaker 1: content company and then created the platform. So I did

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Speaker 1: not be pivoted. Pretty well though, don't you think parton

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Speaker 1: they've pivoted. Do you think I'm very impressed with Netflix

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Speaker 1: and what they've accomplished. Absolutely, And I'm I'm a big

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Speaker 1: consumer of it, and I enjoy it um And I

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Speaker 1: think to your point, there's a lot of high quality

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Speaker 1: product on there. But I think what I was, what

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Speaker 1: the observation I was making, is the genesis of their

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Speaker 1: business is different than the genesis of ours. It was

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Speaker 1: not made. I'm very light and I and frankly, I've

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Speaker 1: spent my life trying to avoid either worrying about or

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Speaker 1: criticizing our competition because I just can't do anything about them. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you've got that reputation as being such a

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Speaker 1: nice person, and how do you lead a company and

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Speaker 1: maintain your niceness? Bob? I mean, is that is that tough?

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Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know how people do it, because

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Speaker 1: you've got to be direct, you've got to deliver bad news,

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Speaker 1: you've got to do all kinds of things that nice

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Speaker 1: doesn't necessarily go with. Right, I left because when you

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Speaker 1: said bad news. I started my career before I started

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Speaker 1: at ABC forty six years ago, by the way, um

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Speaker 1: as a weatherman in a town and upstate New York

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00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:40,800
Speaker 1: called Ithaca and the weather in Ithaca. It's a great town.

430
00:26:40,840 --> 00:26:42,159
Speaker 1: I don't I don't want to get in trouble for

431
00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:45,000
Speaker 1: dissing it. Oh God, don't say anything mean about Ithaca.

432
00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:47,760
Speaker 1: But the weather is rough, can be really rough there

433
00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:50,760
Speaker 1: and fickle. And someone said to me that being a

434
00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:53,240
Speaker 1: weatherman in Ithaca was great training because it taught me

435
00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:57,920
Speaker 1: how to give people bad news. That is true. That's

436
00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:02,280
Speaker 1: a good line. Look, I've tried to be who I am. Um.

437
00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:05,240
Speaker 1: I try to treat people fairly. I try to have empathy.

438
00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:07,680
Speaker 1: I've learned lately that I haven't had enough of it,

439
00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:11,240
Speaker 1: that there's more. There's more more empathy to be either

440
00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:16,439
Speaker 1: learned or had. Um. I try to be kind, and

441
00:27:16,600 --> 00:27:20,119
Speaker 1: I think that's an important quality in a leader. It

442
00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:23,280
Speaker 1: doesn't mean you're nice all the time. It doesn't mean

443
00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:26,040
Speaker 1: you're always delivering good news. It doesn't mean you're not

444
00:27:26,080 --> 00:27:30,800
Speaker 1: either getting confrontational um or having a disruptive effect on

445
00:27:30,840 --> 00:27:33,720
Speaker 1: someone else's life. But I just try in the process

446
00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:40,280
Speaker 1: to respect people as who they are. UM. And again,

447
00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:44,600
Speaker 1: I think kindness is different than niceness. I think kindness

448
00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:48,600
Speaker 1: is recognizing the human being and everybody and never forgetting

449
00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:52,000
Speaker 1: that we're never forgetting that that person that you're firing,

450
00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:54,000
Speaker 1: or that person that you're giving bad news to, or

451
00:27:54,040 --> 00:28:00,160
Speaker 1: that person that you are, you know, managing under tough circumstances,

452
00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:05,919
Speaker 1: is still a person. What is niceness? Well, I think

453
00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:10,640
Speaker 1: if you try to be being nice means avoiding confrontation

454
00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:14,960
Speaker 1: and sometimes avoiding the truth, and I think it can

455
00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:20,320
Speaker 1: get in the way of effective leadership. Kindness is different.

456
00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:25,160
Speaker 1: Stay tuned for more of my conversation with Disney's executive

457
00:28:25,240 --> 00:28:33,399
Speaker 1: chairman Bob Iger when we continue Welcome back everyone. Here's

458
00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:35,840
Speaker 1: more of my conversation when I get a little more

459
00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:41,880
Speaker 1: up post and personal with Bob Iger. You write in

460
00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:46,520
Speaker 1: your book Right of a Lifetime about your dad and

461
00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:51,920
Speaker 1: how he suffered from manic depression and was tormented by

462
00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:55,760
Speaker 1: self disappointment throughout his life, which I don't know if

463
00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:58,720
Speaker 1: you're like me, and you know, it's it's hard to

464
00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:01,600
Speaker 1: it's hard to say something like that about your father.

465
00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:05,440
Speaker 1: But but it really did shape you in so many ways,

466
00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:10,360
Speaker 1: didn't it, Bob, Yes, very much so. His manic depression

467
00:29:10,440 --> 00:29:14,360
Speaker 1: was profound and something I was aware of. It wasn't

468
00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:17,920
Speaker 1: known as manic depression, um, but something I was aware

469
00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:21,000
Speaker 1: of at a very young age. I'm talking about probably

470
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:24,880
Speaker 1: before I even turned ten. Um. I was the oldest son.

471
00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:28,120
Speaker 1: I have a younger sister, a close knit family. But

472
00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:30,280
Speaker 1: it was hard. In a small house. It's hard to

473
00:29:30,320 --> 00:29:35,160
Speaker 1: avoid mood swings, and um and I saw a lot

474
00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:38,040
Speaker 1: of them. And I also saw the impact that those

475
00:29:38,080 --> 00:29:40,160
Speaker 1: mood swings had not just on the family, but on

476
00:29:40,360 --> 00:29:43,400
Speaker 1: his life and his own self esteem and his ability

477
00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:47,680
Speaker 1: to hold a job and how he dealt with friends

478
00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:51,520
Speaker 1: and others. And it was hard. Um, I think it

479
00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:54,080
Speaker 1: was look in the end, I put it preferred not

480
00:29:54,160 --> 00:29:56,840
Speaker 1: to have had that in my life, but I think

481
00:29:56,840 --> 00:30:00,480
Speaker 1: it helped form me and definitely toughened me up some ways,

482
00:30:00,960 --> 00:30:04,479
Speaker 1: forced me to be both more resilient and sometimes more

483
00:30:04,560 --> 00:30:06,920
Speaker 1: independent by the way he was a loving father and

484
00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:11,240
Speaker 1: giving father. He truly appreciated who I was and what

485
00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:14,160
Speaker 1: I became, and he exhorted me to do better all

486
00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:17,080
Speaker 1: the time, and opened my eyes to all sorts of

487
00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:23,680
Speaker 1: things in life, like music and literature, UH and politics

488
00:30:23,760 --> 00:30:27,240
Speaker 1: and just generally being worldly. Um and so I have

489
00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:31,720
Speaker 1: a lot I wrote about him, honestly because I felt

490
00:30:31,720 --> 00:30:33,840
Speaker 1: that I hadn't There was enough about him that I

491
00:30:33,880 --> 00:30:38,480
Speaker 1: still really appreciated um, and so it was not in

492
00:30:38,520 --> 00:30:41,080
Speaker 1: any way meant to sound critical of him or did

493
00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:43,800
Speaker 1: demean him in any way. He passed in two thousand eleven,

494
00:30:44,360 --> 00:30:47,120
Speaker 1: so he's been gone for a while. But he was

495
00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:51,040
Speaker 1: able to see your your incredible success. And did he

496
00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:54,600
Speaker 1: did he get a kick out of it? He did?

497
00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:57,120
Speaker 1: That was that was a bone of contention with the

498
00:30:57,160 --> 00:30:59,000
Speaker 1: two of us, because he got too much of a

499
00:30:59,080 --> 00:31:01,520
Speaker 1: kick out of it. And I told him that, what

500
00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:03,560
Speaker 1: do you mean I used to have a bet with

501
00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:06,600
Speaker 1: my sister that we went someplace. This is late in

502
00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:09,480
Speaker 1: our lives. How long would it take him to let

503
00:31:09,520 --> 00:31:12,680
Speaker 1: the whoever we were, a waiter or someone know who

504
00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:16,840
Speaker 1: I was? Uh? He lived my life I cariously in

505
00:31:16,840 --> 00:31:19,760
Speaker 1: that regard. And I think he he derived from his

506
00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:23,800
Speaker 1: own self esteem from his son's success. And that made

507
00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:28,320
Speaker 1: me feel that embarrassed me. Yeah, And I told him

508
00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:31,360
Speaker 1: that he knew that I would get mad at him.

509
00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:33,120
Speaker 1: I wish you were still around so I could get

510
00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:36,720
Speaker 1: mad at him about that. I got would get mad

511
00:31:36,720 --> 00:31:38,520
Speaker 1: at him. Why do you have to tell the waiter

512
00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:43,040
Speaker 1: that I'm the CEO of the Walt Disney Company. It

513
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:46,160
Speaker 1: has nothing to do with the PASTA dish that we

514
00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:50,200
Speaker 1: were just ordering. When my father would go get his

515
00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:55,200
Speaker 1: prescription from the drug store and the pharmacists would say

516
00:31:55,240 --> 00:32:00,360
Speaker 1: are you Are you Katie Kerrik's father, he would say, no,

517
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:05,400
Speaker 1: she's my daughter. That's a great line. I wanted to

518
00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:08,360
Speaker 1: ask you about you mentioned being a weather man. You

519
00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:11,720
Speaker 1: did want to become Walter Cronkite one day. I'm really

520
00:32:11,760 --> 00:32:14,600
Speaker 1: sorry I beat you to the punch you became Walter Cronkite,

521
00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:19,400
Speaker 1: not exactly, but why did you give up on a

522
00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:24,760
Speaker 1: career in television news. Well, I studied television or communications

523
00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:29,160
Speaker 1: and media in college. I wanted uh. And Walter Cronkite,

524
00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:33,640
Speaker 1: as you know, and I think some of our our

525
00:32:33,680 --> 00:32:38,840
Speaker 1: older listeners, yes, um, you know, was an American icon,

526
00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:41,080
Speaker 1: one most trusted man in America. I think he was

527
00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:45,040
Speaker 1: considered at one point those were the days CBS Evening News.

528
00:32:45,960 --> 00:32:49,600
Speaker 1: Uh and and as you know, very very special in

529
00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:53,040
Speaker 1: terms of his role in our lives growing up in

530
00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:57,800
Speaker 1: our country. Uh. And it was not only something romantic

531
00:32:57,840 --> 00:33:01,720
Speaker 1: about that that, but I I just fell in love

532
00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:05,640
Speaker 1: with television news, I think really through watching CBS News

533
00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:09,920
Speaker 1: and that array of great contributors, from Charles Coral to

534
00:33:10,160 --> 00:33:12,640
Speaker 1: Roger Mud. You know, we could we could go on

535
00:33:12,680 --> 00:33:15,600
Speaker 1: and on. That group of people that was just so special.

536
00:33:16,280 --> 00:33:20,160
Speaker 1: Um and I started out, as I mentioned earlier on camera,

537
00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:24,080
Speaker 1: uh as a weatherman and a feature news reporter. And

538
00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:26,240
Speaker 1: you know, when you do those things in small markets,

539
00:33:26,800 --> 00:33:29,000
Speaker 1: you move up and up and up, although your trajectory

540
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:32,200
Speaker 1: is a little different than others, I guess in some ways.

541
00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:34,800
Speaker 1: But and you take a bigger market, and a bigger

542
00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:38,000
Speaker 1: market ultimately you hope to get to the big network. Well,

543
00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:41,200
Speaker 1: I started at the right full age of twenty three,

544
00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:44,880
Speaker 1: and I had some other opportunities to go to bigger markets,

545
00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:48,880
Speaker 1: but I I love, I didn't have the confidence in

546
00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:53,080
Speaker 1: myself to convince myself that I would end up becoming

547
00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:56,760
Speaker 1: Walter Cronkite. Uh. I just didn't think I was good enough.

548
00:33:56,960 --> 00:33:58,640
Speaker 1: And I don't know what there was feedback that I

549
00:33:58,680 --> 00:34:01,560
Speaker 1: was getting or was just being more self aware, but

550
00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:08,239
Speaker 1: I lacked the confidence and the presence and you know

551
00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:12,719
Speaker 1: that mojo. I guess that it takes UH to do that.

552
00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:15,719
Speaker 1: And so I pivoted and got a job essentially as

553
00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:19,799
Speaker 1: a production assistant at ABC. In four I ended up

554
00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:23,680
Speaker 1: working on the Harry Reasoner Evening News were you there

555
00:34:23,680 --> 00:34:27,359
Speaker 1: when Barbara was there before Barbara and then Barbara came,

556
00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:33,560
Speaker 1: but before Barbara, that was a lot of fun for her. Yes, yes,

557
00:34:34,280 --> 00:34:36,719
Speaker 1: I remember that. Well. Actually, a funny story about that

558
00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:40,839
Speaker 1: was I was asked when after Barbara Walters started, I

559
00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:43,680
Speaker 1: was asked to take something into her dressing room and

560
00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:46,120
Speaker 1: I knocked on the door and there was no answer.

561
00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:47,959
Speaker 1: I knocked again. There was no answer. So I walked

562
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:50,640
Speaker 1: in and Barbara was there fully dressed. I would sit

563
00:34:50,680 --> 00:34:53,000
Speaker 1: by the way, but I was going to say no.

564
00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:57,279
Speaker 1: And I was really taken aback as this young production

565
00:34:57,400 --> 00:35:00,920
Speaker 1: person luring some of your miss Walters. And I started

566
00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:02,760
Speaker 1: to back my way out. She said, no, no, no, stop.

567
00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:05,440
Speaker 1: Tell me what your name is and what do you do?

568
00:35:05,520 --> 00:35:07,000
Speaker 1: And I told her my name and what I did.

569
00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:09,279
Speaker 1: She's so nice to meet you. From then on she

570
00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:16,640
Speaker 1: called me Jim. It wasn't until I became president of

571
00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:20,200
Speaker 1: the network. I think that she discovered that Jim's name was.

572
00:35:22,360 --> 00:35:25,080
Speaker 1: I've been calling you the wrong name all these years. Well,

573
00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:27,160
Speaker 1: you do have a funny story in your book about

574
00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:31,880
Speaker 1: being sent out to buy listering for Frank Sinatra. That

575
00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:35,279
Speaker 1: must have been incredible. I mean, I'm such a Sinatra fan.

576
00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:37,960
Speaker 1: I never met him, but wow, that must have been

577
00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:41,759
Speaker 1: so exciting. He did a live concert, performed a live

578
00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:44,719
Speaker 1: concert at Masson Square Garden called the Main Event in

579
00:35:44,800 --> 00:35:50,240
Speaker 1: October of seventy four, produced by UM. Jerry Weintrout became

580
00:35:50,280 --> 00:35:52,279
Speaker 1: a famous producer and Ruin Arland, who was then head

581
00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:55,960
Speaker 1: of ABC Sports and I worked on that. ABC did

582
00:35:56,000 --> 00:36:00,360
Speaker 1: it in prime time and among the high end jobs

583
00:36:00,360 --> 00:36:02,279
Speaker 1: that I had to perform was to bring go out

584
00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:05,360
Speaker 1: to a drug store in Midtown Manhattan and by listerine

585
00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:10,000
Speaker 1: and delivered to his dressing room. I knocked in some

586
00:36:10,120 --> 00:36:15,319
Speaker 1: big security guard. I answered, yeah, kids, you know it's

587
00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:22,040
Speaker 1: one of those what do you Mr Sinatra's listering? And

588
00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:24,479
Speaker 1: he was about to take it. I heard Sinatra's voice

589
00:36:24,480 --> 00:36:27,480
Speaker 1: in the background and he said, hold on one second,

590
00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:31,160
Speaker 1: and uh, what's your name? And I said, Bob, where

591
00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:33,040
Speaker 1: are you from? I think? I said, I can't remember.

592
00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:36,839
Speaker 1: I said Brooklyn or I was born in Brooklyn. Um,

593
00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:38,600
Speaker 1: I grew up in a town called Ocean Side. And

594
00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:41,080
Speaker 1: he handed me a CRISP one hundred dollar bill. And

595
00:36:41,239 --> 00:36:43,920
Speaker 1: it's interesting because I got as as part of the

596
00:36:44,200 --> 00:36:46,920
Speaker 1: working on the show. He gave everybody on this is

597
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:48,960
Speaker 1: a sign of the times. He gave everybody on the

598
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:54,560
Speaker 1: crew a gold cigarette lighter that said love Frank on it.

599
00:36:54,960 --> 00:36:58,839
Speaker 1: I still have I still have the cigarette lighter. That's

600
00:36:58,960 --> 00:37:01,279
Speaker 1: I hope you still have that cigarette lighter. I hope

601
00:37:01,280 --> 00:37:05,719
Speaker 1: you still have that one. Right away. You should have

602
00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:10,000
Speaker 1: gotten him to sign it. Who knew you know? Well,

603
00:37:10,040 --> 00:37:12,200
Speaker 1: I think you knew at the time. It was Frank

604
00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:15,040
Speaker 1: sin Rocher. Come on, Bob, wasn't like I remember. I

605
00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:18,480
Speaker 1: remember being right at the edge of the stage when

606
00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:20,799
Speaker 1: he was performing, and who was sitting there but but

607
00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:26,560
Speaker 1: Walter Cronkite and the audience. That's so funny. John Lindsay

608
00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:29,759
Speaker 1: who was the mayor of New York, and Robert very

609
00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:33,480
Speaker 1: handsome mayor of New York. Hovert Redford who who was

610
00:37:33,520 --> 00:37:36,719
Speaker 1: also pretty handsome. One thing in your book that's very

611
00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:39,200
Speaker 1: clear is you would not be where you are today,

612
00:37:39,320 --> 00:37:43,279
Speaker 1: Bob without without your mentors. Can you tell me the

613
00:37:43,400 --> 00:37:45,319
Speaker 1: role they played in your life? And I'd love to

614
00:37:45,360 --> 00:37:48,920
Speaker 1: hear who you have in turn paid it forward to

615
00:37:49,120 --> 00:37:53,880
Speaker 1: who you have mentored And how I was really lucky, Katie,

616
00:37:54,040 --> 00:37:57,600
Speaker 1: I worked for some signs of our business um and

617
00:37:57,680 --> 00:38:01,480
Speaker 1: people who are really famous for their accomplish schmans and

618
00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:04,239
Speaker 1: the ability to kind of work at their feet, so

619
00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:07,920
Speaker 1: to speak, was basically what I was doing. Um it

620
00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:10,799
Speaker 1: was extraordinary. So the first would be run Arlante, who

621
00:38:10,840 --> 00:38:14,600
Speaker 1: was a very very well known television executive who kind

622
00:38:14,600 --> 00:38:17,800
Speaker 1: of the father of ABC Sports and a real innovator

623
00:38:17,960 --> 00:38:22,279
Speaker 1: and came out of ABC News too, and a huge

624
00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:26,759
Speaker 1: risk taker and a great storyteller and and as I said,

625
00:38:26,760 --> 00:38:32,920
Speaker 1: an innovator and a perfectionist and add and a showman too.

626
00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:34,840
Speaker 1: And I worked for Room for ten years and he

627
00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:37,080
Speaker 1: worked for me for ten years, which is very interesting

628
00:38:37,480 --> 00:38:40,799
Speaker 1: that we sort of switched roles in some way. And

629
00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:43,040
Speaker 1: he was good by the way about working for me,

630
00:38:43,360 --> 00:38:47,040
Speaker 1: although there were moments when I had to remind things

631
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:51,879
Speaker 1: they changed a little. But more than anything from Rooin,

632
00:38:52,239 --> 00:38:55,920
Speaker 1: the ability to take big risks, the ability to um,

633
00:38:56,120 --> 00:38:59,839
Speaker 1: I think big, be theatrical, and lastly be a prof

634
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:04,040
Speaker 1: Actionists don't ever accept mediocrity. If you've got any resources

635
00:39:04,160 --> 00:39:06,440
Speaker 1: left to make something that is good, great, do it.

636
00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:10,760
Speaker 1: And it's interesting how often people sometimes settle or less

637
00:39:10,800 --> 00:39:13,799
Speaker 1: than great, either because they perceived that they're out of time,

638
00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:18,239
Speaker 1: or they're exhausted, or money's an issue whatever, and not

639
00:39:18,360 --> 00:39:22,160
Speaker 1: that money shouldn't be an issue. But he taught me that, um,

640
00:39:22,200 --> 00:39:25,759
Speaker 1: there's always room for improvement, to to make something that

641
00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:28,680
Speaker 1: you're making better, and I love that. And then I

642
00:39:28,719 --> 00:39:32,600
Speaker 1: worked for two gentlemen who ran Capital Cities ABC named

643
00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:35,920
Speaker 1: Tom Murphy and Dan Burke. And Tom still alive. I

644
00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:37,720
Speaker 1: still check in with him every once in a while.

645
00:39:38,320 --> 00:39:41,399
Speaker 1: Consummate businessman. But what I mean by that is with

646
00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:45,239
Speaker 1: great integrity. So not only they teach me business, they

647
00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:49,120
Speaker 1: taught me how to conduct business the right way and

648
00:39:49,320 --> 00:39:55,120
Speaker 1: never compromising from an integrity perspective or judgment perspective, which

649
00:39:55,280 --> 00:39:59,400
Speaker 1: was very valuable during a formative period of my life.

650
00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:02,479
Speaker 1: I started working for them when I was thirty four,

651
00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:06,759
Speaker 1: and I worked for them un till Disney bought us in.

652
00:40:08,560 --> 00:40:11,280
Speaker 1: And then lastly I worked for Michael Eisner for ten years.

653
00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:16,240
Speaker 1: And Michael was incredible in terms of the the ambidextrous

654
00:40:16,320 --> 00:40:20,120
Speaker 1: nature of his creativity. He he had creative instincts about

655
00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:25,720
Speaker 1: theme park attractions and parades and hotels to television series,

656
00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:29,600
Speaker 1: two books, to motion pictures. And he taught me too,

657
00:40:30,680 --> 00:40:33,600
Speaker 1: one of the language of those businesses. I only knew

658
00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:36,719
Speaker 1: the language of television He taught me to have a

659
00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:40,759
Speaker 1: set designer's eye and assessing creativity when it came to

660
00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:43,880
Speaker 1: the theme parks, and he too was quite a perfectionist,

661
00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:47,080
Speaker 1: so I was I was lucky, um and what And

662
00:40:47,160 --> 00:40:50,799
Speaker 1: I'm grateful to them to this day. But it also

663
00:40:50,920 --> 00:40:54,399
Speaker 1: taught me the value of mentorship because and and I've

664
00:40:54,440 --> 00:40:57,400
Speaker 1: learned even more about its value in the last six months,

665
00:40:57,920 --> 00:41:02,479
Speaker 1: because clearly mentorship is both an inexpensive and a very

666
00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:07,239
Speaker 1: very efficient way of enabling people that have more opportunity.

667
00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:10,359
Speaker 1: And when we talk about diversity and inclusion and we're

668
00:41:10,360 --> 00:41:14,400
Speaker 1: talking about we talked about giving people more opportunity, a

669
00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:17,359
Speaker 1: mentor can play a big role in that. And so

670
00:41:17,440 --> 00:41:19,520
Speaker 1: since I stepped into the chairman's role, but I was

671
00:41:19,600 --> 00:41:22,759
Speaker 1: mentoring and before that, I've devoted more and more time

672
00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:26,640
Speaker 1: to people, giving myself to them. And it's kind of interesting.

673
00:41:26,680 --> 00:41:29,600
Speaker 1: I've collected a group of people, some of whom, by

674
00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:33,279
Speaker 1: the way, I've never met except via zoom. Yeah uh.

675
00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:37,120
Speaker 1: And they include Chris Paul, who is a point guard

676
00:41:37,600 --> 00:41:40,120
Speaker 1: in the NBA will you know, will be a Hall

677
00:41:40,160 --> 00:41:43,480
Speaker 1: of Fame point guard president the NBA Players Association. That

678
00:41:43,520 --> 00:41:48,160
Speaker 1: mentorship became a friendship I'm mentoring some NFL players who

679
00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:51,600
Speaker 1: are trying to create a business that provides better financial

680
00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:55,000
Speaker 1: acumen and access to better investments for young players. I'm

681
00:41:55,040 --> 00:41:58,600
Speaker 1: mentoring other people at the Walt Disney Company. I've got

682
00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:02,040
Speaker 1: I'm doing some oaternship of a woman who started a

683
00:42:02,120 --> 00:42:05,840
Speaker 1: really great small company in the cosmetics space, online director

684
00:42:05,880 --> 00:42:09,799
Speaker 1: consumer and people have just reached out and either I

685
00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:13,000
Speaker 1: read your book and I'd love some advice, or I

686
00:42:13,040 --> 00:42:15,120
Speaker 1: work in your company and I'd love to talk to

687
00:42:15,160 --> 00:42:17,399
Speaker 1: you more about who I am. And and I've tried

688
00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:19,360
Speaker 1: to be really generous. I've had to say no a

689
00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:23,400
Speaker 1: bit because my schedule has gotten complicated. But I'm probably

690
00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:26,160
Speaker 1: mentoring I don't know six or seven people right now.

691
00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:29,399
Speaker 1: That means so much, I'm sure to them, and it'd

692
00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:31,920
Speaker 1: be great to just mentor somebody at the beginning of

693
00:42:31,960 --> 00:42:35,520
Speaker 1: their career too, didn't play for the NBA or the

694
00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:39,280
Speaker 1: NFL that just you know, that would be a fun,

695
00:42:39,719 --> 00:42:41,680
Speaker 1: a fun thing for you to do. I mean, can

696
00:42:41,680 --> 00:42:45,840
Speaker 1: you imagine how excited somebody who's twenty five years old,

697
00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:49,480
Speaker 1: and you know, I always try to open the doors

698
00:42:49,600 --> 00:42:53,240
Speaker 1: for people who have no connections. You know, who's father

699
00:42:53,320 --> 00:42:56,000
Speaker 1: didn't go to school with their uncle, you know, and

700
00:42:56,040 --> 00:42:59,120
Speaker 1: all that stuff, because I think it perpetuates this, you know,

701
00:42:59,239 --> 00:43:02,759
Speaker 1: elite as a that we that that needs to be

702
00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:07,319
Speaker 1: disrupted so badly. So find somebody who's like five and

703
00:43:07,719 --> 00:43:10,640
Speaker 1: who would never in a million years have access to

704
00:43:10,719 --> 00:43:13,560
Speaker 1: somebody like you. That would be so awesome, And I'll

705
00:43:13,560 --> 00:43:16,879
Speaker 1: take that's good advice. I won't put an advertisement out

706
00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:20,879
Speaker 1: about that. Abigail Disney, Uh, you know, as you know,

707
00:43:21,160 --> 00:43:25,800
Speaker 1: recently or at some point, Uh gave a critique of

708
00:43:25,880 --> 00:43:30,600
Speaker 1: the stark pay gap that exists in many corporations, including Disney,

709
00:43:30,600 --> 00:43:33,720
Speaker 1: and she kind of pointed a finger at you and said,

710
00:43:33,840 --> 00:43:36,640
Speaker 1: Bob Iger is kind of a nice guy, and everybody

711
00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:39,080
Speaker 1: around him are nice people. What has become thought of

712
00:43:39,120 --> 00:43:41,560
Speaker 1: as normal and the kind of thing nice people do

713
00:43:41,719 --> 00:43:45,080
Speaker 1: isn't nice. And somebody has to say the emperor's wearing

714
00:43:45,080 --> 00:43:47,960
Speaker 1: no clothes. Somebody just has to say it, you know.

715
00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:50,080
Speaker 1: I think she was talking about the fact that you

716
00:43:50,239 --> 00:43:53,560
Speaker 1: earn a thousand times more than the average Disney employee.

717
00:43:53,640 --> 00:43:57,440
Speaker 1: And you know you've talked about this before, Bob um.

718
00:43:57,480 --> 00:43:59,959
Speaker 1: You know, you have a salary around sixty six million

719
00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:02,399
Speaker 1: of dollars, but You're not. You know, this is kind

720
00:44:02,440 --> 00:44:04,440
Speaker 1: of a trend. You're not the only CEO who has

721
00:44:04,480 --> 00:44:08,520
Speaker 1: been criticized for this um at a time when income

722
00:44:08,560 --> 00:44:11,960
Speaker 1: inequality And by the way, I've been criticized too for

723
00:44:12,120 --> 00:44:14,759
Speaker 1: the salaries I've made in the past, but at a

724
00:44:14,840 --> 00:44:19,680
Speaker 1: time when income inequality is so so intense. You know,

725
00:44:20,280 --> 00:44:22,600
Speaker 1: how do you think about that? How do you think

726
00:44:22,640 --> 00:44:26,799
Speaker 1: about the kind of wealth a lot of CEOs have

727
00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:31,600
Speaker 1: accumulated and the salaries that they're making. Just philosophically, well,

728
00:44:31,640 --> 00:44:36,759
Speaker 1: I think it's a it's a very complicated subject. But

729
00:44:36,840 --> 00:44:40,360
Speaker 1: I do think that the pay gap that exists in America.

730
00:44:40,600 --> 00:44:46,840
Speaker 1: More importantly, the opportunity that people have in our country,

731
00:44:47,960 --> 00:44:51,359
Speaker 1: opportunities are not as abundant, not as great as they

732
00:44:51,360 --> 00:44:55,239
Speaker 1: should be. UM. And I think that's becoming more and

733
00:44:55,280 --> 00:44:57,680
Speaker 1: more real, more and more profound, and more and more

734
00:44:57,719 --> 00:45:01,840
Speaker 1: of a problem. UM I look, I don't want to

735
00:45:01,840 --> 00:45:05,960
Speaker 1: get into details about how I've been compensated, except to

736
00:45:06,040 --> 00:45:11,480
Speaker 1: say that even quoting numbers sometimes can be misleading. I

737
00:45:11,520 --> 00:45:13,879
Speaker 1: get a salary, and I get bonuses that are based

738
00:45:13,880 --> 00:45:16,040
Speaker 1: on the performance of the company, and I get stock

739
00:45:16,200 --> 00:45:18,080
Speaker 1: that is based on the performance of the company. And

740
00:45:18,120 --> 00:45:21,399
Speaker 1: the stock when they're granted, they don't necessarily pay out

741
00:45:21,400 --> 00:45:25,160
Speaker 1: in the manner in which the headlines may suggest. Put

742
00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:28,080
Speaker 1: that all aside, I work in a business that has compensated.

743
00:45:28,600 --> 00:45:33,359
Speaker 1: CEO is very well UM, and my compensation actually has

744
00:45:33,400 --> 00:45:36,360
Speaker 1: been consistent with the compensation of others in the business

745
00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:39,320
Speaker 1: that I work in. I happen to have run the largest,

746
00:45:39,360 --> 00:45:43,759
Speaker 1: most complex media company, and one could argue the most successful.

747
00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:48,000
Speaker 1: That said, I am very very mindful of the fact

748
00:45:48,080 --> 00:45:52,200
Speaker 1: that UM people today, young people today don't feel they

749
00:45:52,239 --> 00:45:55,239
Speaker 1: have the kind of opportunity that perhaps my generation of

750
00:45:55,360 --> 00:45:58,000
Speaker 1: people felt they had, whether that by the way, whether

751
00:45:58,040 --> 00:46:00,640
Speaker 1: they are people of color, or whether as young people

752
00:46:00,719 --> 00:46:03,399
Speaker 1: starting out that as they look ahead, they just don't

753
00:46:03,400 --> 00:46:06,719
Speaker 1: have the optimism that I had that I would ultimately

754
00:46:07,080 --> 00:46:11,080
Speaker 1: have access to if I if I performed well, UM,

755
00:46:11,120 --> 00:46:13,960
Speaker 1: I would ultimately have access to much more. And that's

756
00:46:13,960 --> 00:46:16,600
Speaker 1: a big problem. And I think that's a it's a

757
00:46:16,680 --> 00:46:19,759
Speaker 1: leadership problem in America. I think it's a UM it's

758
00:46:19,760 --> 00:46:22,400
Speaker 1: an infrastructure problem in America, meaning I just think the

759
00:46:22,520 --> 00:46:26,720
Speaker 1: system is not serving all people well anymore. What advice

760
00:46:26,719 --> 00:46:29,160
Speaker 1: would you give young people, Bob, You know you have

761
00:46:29,160 --> 00:46:32,440
Speaker 1: an eighteen year old son. Uh, you know, what would

762
00:46:32,440 --> 00:46:35,080
Speaker 1: you say to people starting out who you know have

763
00:46:35,200 --> 00:46:39,040
Speaker 1: stars in their eyes and would love to to to

764
00:46:39,160 --> 00:46:42,840
Speaker 1: work at a company like Disney or be in media

765
00:46:42,840 --> 00:46:45,600
Speaker 1: of any kind. Well, look where we We've been lucky

766
00:46:45,640 --> 00:46:49,200
Speaker 1: in that in the past, we've managed to expand our

767
00:46:49,400 --> 00:46:53,200
Speaker 1: our employee ranks. Obviously, the pandemic is having a negative

768
00:46:53,200 --> 00:46:56,440
Speaker 1: impact on that. On that, you know, I've I've always

769
00:46:56,480 --> 00:47:01,160
Speaker 1: believed that people need to um determine what it is

770
00:47:01,160 --> 00:47:05,040
Speaker 1: they're interested in and and meaning meaning know what your

771
00:47:05,040 --> 00:47:06,719
Speaker 1: passion is in terms of how you want to spend

772
00:47:06,760 --> 00:47:08,880
Speaker 1: your time. It's a lot of time that we do

773
00:47:08,960 --> 00:47:12,120
Speaker 1: devote to work. To the extent you have that luxury,

774
00:47:12,160 --> 00:47:16,040
Speaker 1: by the way, and pursue your passion with vigor. And

775
00:47:16,080 --> 00:47:19,239
Speaker 1: when you're given opportunity to pursue it, you've got to

776
00:47:19,280 --> 00:47:21,480
Speaker 1: work really hard. I think one of the things that

777
00:47:21,520 --> 00:47:25,120
Speaker 1: I'm sure, knowing you as long as I do, know

778
00:47:25,440 --> 00:47:27,720
Speaker 1: is that the value of hard work beach just about

779
00:47:27,760 --> 00:47:33,160
Speaker 1: almost anything else. Showing up and being willing to put

780
00:47:33,160 --> 00:47:36,880
Speaker 1: in the time and the energy and the commitment is

781
00:47:36,920 --> 00:47:41,319
Speaker 1: the best possible way to opportunity. But even then, we

782
00:47:41,360 --> 00:47:43,719
Speaker 1: know there are people that are willing to do that

783
00:47:43,719 --> 00:47:46,680
Speaker 1: that don't get the kind of opportunities that you know,

784
00:47:46,719 --> 00:47:49,080
Speaker 1: we were afforded that we'd like all people to have.

785
00:47:49,600 --> 00:47:53,759
Speaker 1: But I don't think there's anything better than more effective

786
00:47:53,760 --> 00:47:56,600
Speaker 1: than hard work. And I think if you pick something

787
00:47:56,640 --> 00:47:58,880
Speaker 1: you love to do, it doesn't feel like work. I

788
00:47:58,920 --> 00:48:02,000
Speaker 1: mean it sounds like a college commencement addressed it, probably

789
00:48:02,040 --> 00:48:06,400
Speaker 1: both of us. But I'm giving one in May, and

790
00:48:06,440 --> 00:48:09,680
Speaker 1: as we were talking, I'm thinking, I gotta start writing

791
00:48:09,680 --> 00:48:11,880
Speaker 1: some of this town. You know, those are the hardest

792
00:48:11,880 --> 00:48:14,200
Speaker 1: things in the world to do. Give it commencement address,

793
00:48:14,719 --> 00:48:17,560
Speaker 1: particularly after we've all seen and heard Steve John Oh

794
00:48:17,560 --> 00:48:22,160
Speaker 1: my gosh, especially now, especially now at Steve Jobs. That's right,

795
00:48:22,200 --> 00:48:26,000
Speaker 1: and you guys became such good friends. He confided in

796
00:48:26,120 --> 00:48:30,719
Speaker 1: you what was going on, uh with his illness. You know,

797
00:48:30,920 --> 00:48:34,799
Speaker 1: cancer is something that's touched my life so profoundly as well.

798
00:48:34,840 --> 00:48:38,880
Speaker 1: And what was that conversation like between you and Steve

799
00:48:38,960 --> 00:48:41,440
Speaker 1: if you if you feel like it wasn't too private,

800
00:48:41,880 --> 00:48:44,879
Speaker 1: well I described it in the book. Um, we were

801
00:48:44,880 --> 00:48:47,399
Speaker 1: buying Pixar and we were fact it signed a deal

802
00:48:47,440 --> 00:48:51,160
Speaker 1: and we're announcing it at Pixar and about an hour

803
00:48:51,239 --> 00:48:53,799
Speaker 1: before the announcement, which is a big deal back then

804
00:48:53,880 --> 00:48:57,360
Speaker 1: at seven point three billion dollar deal. He has to

805
00:48:57,360 --> 00:49:00,440
Speaker 1: go for a walk and we left the building a

806
00:49:00,480 --> 00:49:02,600
Speaker 1: Pixar and walked around the Pixar grounds and there was

807
00:49:02,600 --> 00:49:04,160
Speaker 1: a bench and he sat down and put his arm

808
00:49:04,200 --> 00:49:07,399
Speaker 1: around me. He had had cancer, that it was known

809
00:49:07,920 --> 00:49:10,440
Speaker 1: to the world some couple of years earlier. If I

810
00:49:10,440 --> 00:49:14,799
Speaker 1: recalled and had announced that he had been cured, it

811
00:49:14,920 --> 00:49:19,680
Speaker 1: was an operation, and um, he said to me, I'm

812
00:49:19,680 --> 00:49:21,640
Speaker 1: going to tell you something only my wife and my

813
00:49:21,760 --> 00:49:26,880
Speaker 1: doctor no, And he told me that his cancer had returned. Uh.

814
00:49:26,920 --> 00:49:28,840
Speaker 1: And I said, why are you telling me this? And

815
00:49:28,880 --> 00:49:31,359
Speaker 1: he said, because he's giving me a chance to back

816
00:49:31,400 --> 00:49:34,840
Speaker 1: out of the deal. He was worried that that the

817
00:49:34,920 --> 00:49:37,399
Speaker 1: knowledge of him having cancer, or the fact that he did,

818
00:49:38,160 --> 00:49:42,160
Speaker 1: would change my outlook on buying Pixar, and I had

819
00:49:42,200 --> 00:49:44,560
Speaker 1: no ability to consult anybody else. And as I looked

820
00:49:44,560 --> 00:49:46,759
Speaker 1: at my watch, we were then about thirty minutes till

821
00:49:47,200 --> 00:49:49,200
Speaker 1: we're making this pig announcement. Here I am on a

822
00:49:49,280 --> 00:49:52,960
Speaker 1: bench with Steve Jobs, not only horrified by the news

823
00:49:53,000 --> 00:49:54,719
Speaker 1: that he's just given me, even though we hadn't become

824
00:49:54,800 --> 00:49:58,680
Speaker 1: close yet, but thinking trying really hard to processes that

825
00:49:58,800 --> 00:50:01,800
Speaker 1: is related to what my was sponsibilities were, and I

826
00:50:01,840 --> 00:50:05,120
Speaker 1: asked him more questions. He told me among the things

827
00:50:05,160 --> 00:50:08,759
Speaker 1: that um uh, he thought I should know is that

828
00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:11,680
Speaker 1: he was intent on being at his son reads high

829
00:50:11,680 --> 00:50:14,600
Speaker 1: school graduation. And I asked when is that? I think

830
00:50:14,600 --> 00:50:17,759
Speaker 1: he said four years from that, and that was kind

831
00:50:17,760 --> 00:50:21,160
Speaker 1: of enough for me. There was a Steve had an

832
00:50:21,200 --> 00:50:24,239
Speaker 1: optimism almost till the very end, I don't think at

833
00:50:24,280 --> 00:50:26,920
Speaker 1: the very end, but that he was going to beat this.

834
00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:28,959
Speaker 1: Did there always be a new drug or the next

835
00:50:29,000 --> 00:50:34,600
Speaker 1: drug or his will to survive? And it was infectious

836
00:50:34,800 --> 00:50:38,799
Speaker 1: and knowing how he was approaching this gave me more

837
00:50:39,280 --> 00:50:42,839
Speaker 1: confidence to just go forward and that's what we did. Yeah,

838
00:50:43,120 --> 00:50:46,040
Speaker 1: and I live with that secret for quite a long

839
00:50:46,080 --> 00:50:49,600
Speaker 1: period of time. I think that's the way that people.

840
00:50:50,520 --> 00:50:53,719
Speaker 1: People have to be optimistic if there if they're going

841
00:50:53,840 --> 00:50:57,759
Speaker 1: to live out whatever time they have left in the

842
00:50:57,800 --> 00:51:03,640
Speaker 1: best possible way. And I think that's that's the best

843
00:51:03,719 --> 00:51:09,560
Speaker 1: choice to make personally. And that's yeah, anyway I'm thinking

844
00:51:09,560 --> 00:51:13,839
Speaker 1: about my husband, But I know it touched you very

845
00:51:13,920 --> 00:51:17,279
Speaker 1: very personally and very profoundly. I know at a very

846
00:51:17,320 --> 00:51:21,200
Speaker 1: young age too, with young kids. Yeah, imagine that you

847
00:51:21,280 --> 00:51:25,120
Speaker 1: can relate. I'm writing a lot about that in the

848
00:51:25,160 --> 00:51:28,279
Speaker 1: book I'm writing. Maybe you'll maybe you'll read it at

849
00:51:28,360 --> 00:51:31,719
Speaker 1: some point. But you know about the regrets I have

850
00:51:31,920 --> 00:51:36,000
Speaker 1: about not being honest about about the fact that Jay

851
00:51:36,080 --> 00:51:38,960
Speaker 1: probably was going to die and not really talking about it,

852
00:51:39,040 --> 00:51:44,000
Speaker 1: but talking about it and admitting it almost made it

853
00:51:44,040 --> 00:51:46,319
Speaker 1: made it seem like we were giving up, you know.

854
00:51:46,400 --> 00:51:50,120
Speaker 1: So it's such a such a fine balance when when

855
00:51:50,160 --> 00:51:53,480
Speaker 1: someone you love is is dying about you know how

856
00:51:53,600 --> 00:51:56,359
Speaker 1: much to to really talk about it. But that's that's

857
00:51:56,360 --> 00:52:00,200
Speaker 1: a big regret that I have. Um on a lighter out,

858
00:52:00,200 --> 00:52:03,040
Speaker 1: as we used to say on the Today Show, Um

859
00:52:03,680 --> 00:52:07,360
Speaker 1: you were do you think you'd ever go into politics?

860
00:52:07,400 --> 00:52:09,440
Speaker 1: I know, don't worry. I know you've been asked this

861
00:52:09,480 --> 00:52:13,360
Speaker 1: a million times. I didn't worry. I thought about it seriously.

862
00:52:14,000 --> 00:52:18,040
Speaker 1: I thought that the skills that I've learned in business

863
00:52:18,120 --> 00:52:22,040
Speaker 1: were applicable to running either a country or a state

864
00:52:22,120 --> 00:52:25,600
Speaker 1: or a city. And it was also, in my own mind,

865
00:52:25,640 --> 00:52:29,360
Speaker 1: a way of giving back doing something that was hopefully

866
00:52:29,400 --> 00:52:32,120
Speaker 1: good for society in our country. And so I did

867
00:52:32,120 --> 00:52:35,040
Speaker 1: think about it seriously. I'm now going to be seventy

868
00:52:35,160 --> 00:52:39,120
Speaker 1: and that doesn't mean, hey, you're spring chicken compared to

869
00:52:39,880 --> 00:52:42,600
Speaker 1: compared to a lot of people out there, there are

870
00:52:42,600 --> 00:52:44,840
Speaker 1: a couple of guys running for president that make me

871
00:52:44,880 --> 00:52:51,120
Speaker 1: look young, right, Um, I rather doubt I will seek

872
00:52:51,440 --> 00:52:54,000
Speaker 1: political office at this point in my life. It was

873
00:52:54,040 --> 00:52:58,120
Speaker 1: something that I more than toyed with. I thought about seriously,

874
00:52:58,480 --> 00:53:03,600
Speaker 1: who you talk to about about I owe many many people.

875
00:53:03,719 --> 00:53:06,600
Speaker 1: I I set up meetings and interviews of sorts with

876
00:53:06,719 --> 00:53:11,960
Speaker 1: experts and former politicians and posters and you name it. Um.

877
00:53:12,000 --> 00:53:13,680
Speaker 1: I don't want to reveal what they were, but there

878
00:53:13,719 --> 00:53:16,000
Speaker 1: are some folks who helped other people get elected to

879
00:53:16,040 --> 00:53:19,799
Speaker 1: pretty high office, and they opened my eyes to a

880
00:53:19,840 --> 00:53:23,240
Speaker 1: lot of things that I needed to consider more than anything.

881
00:53:23,480 --> 00:53:25,399
Speaker 1: You know, I talked a lot to my wife about it.

882
00:53:26,520 --> 00:53:30,399
Speaker 1: She wasn't exactly in averorative the idea. It didn't mean

883
00:53:30,440 --> 00:53:31,759
Speaker 1: that she would stand in the way of it, but

884
00:53:31,800 --> 00:53:33,560
Speaker 1: it would have been a very difficult thing to put

885
00:53:33,600 --> 00:53:37,440
Speaker 1: my family through. I want to give Willow props because

886
00:53:37,440 --> 00:53:41,880
Speaker 1: she's been an incredible dean of the Annenberg School of Communications.

887
00:53:42,000 --> 00:53:44,560
Speaker 1: And you know, you guys must talk about this because

888
00:53:44,600 --> 00:53:47,160
Speaker 1: you wanted to be in news and your news junkie

889
00:53:47,280 --> 00:53:52,360
Speaker 1: and obviously Willow is training some of the future journalists

890
00:53:52,400 --> 00:53:56,959
Speaker 1: of the world. Or do you find it disconcerting what's

891
00:53:57,000 --> 00:54:03,279
Speaker 1: happened to the news business and just how polarized we are?

892
00:54:03,440 --> 00:54:07,560
Speaker 1: And you know, I look at my Instagram Feedbob, and

893
00:54:07,600 --> 00:54:12,239
Speaker 1: I feel like, you know, we're living in parallel universes

894
00:54:12,440 --> 00:54:18,040
Speaker 1: where you know, there just doesn't seem to be any consensus.

895
00:54:18,080 --> 00:54:22,040
Speaker 1: A lot of it is because of the the algorithms

896
00:54:22,080 --> 00:54:24,359
Speaker 1: and the kind of content people get fed. I just

897
00:54:24,400 --> 00:54:27,960
Speaker 1: watched this great documentary called The Social Dilemma, which I

898
00:54:28,040 --> 00:54:31,440
Speaker 1: highly recommend, and I'm sure Willow if she hasn't seen it,

899
00:54:31,520 --> 00:54:35,759
Speaker 1: we want to watch it. Yeah. I am more than disconcerted.

900
00:54:36,000 --> 00:54:39,719
Speaker 1: I'm saddened by it all. I used to think that

901
00:54:39,760 --> 00:54:43,719
Speaker 1: the truth really mattered, and that there was always a

902
00:54:43,800 --> 00:54:47,439
Speaker 1: means of getting at the truth, uh and accepting what

903
00:54:47,480 --> 00:54:51,319
Speaker 1: it was, even if you started off not believing it.

904
00:54:52,480 --> 00:54:57,360
Speaker 1: There was a place of means, a dialogue of forum

905
00:54:57,840 --> 00:55:02,239
Speaker 1: that ultimately would conclude what was right, you know, what

906
00:55:02,320 --> 00:55:05,799
Speaker 1: was accurate. And I don't think that exists today, and

907
00:55:05,880 --> 00:55:10,400
Speaker 1: it's very very sad. I think that there it's polarized,

908
00:55:10,600 --> 00:55:14,040
Speaker 1: polarized society a polarized world would be one way to

909
00:55:14,160 --> 00:55:18,480
Speaker 1: describe it, But I actually worry that it's the impact

910
00:55:18,520 --> 00:55:23,560
Speaker 1: of such polarization could be far more profound. Uh. And

911
00:55:23,600 --> 00:55:28,280
Speaker 1: you know what happens if two opposing sides have no

912
00:55:28,360 --> 00:55:35,520
Speaker 1: ability to ever come to some agreement about something other

913
00:55:35,560 --> 00:55:39,880
Speaker 1: than through sheer force. And I fear that that's ultimately

914
00:55:39,960 --> 00:55:43,719
Speaker 1: what people will resort to, you know, to prove that

915
00:55:43,760 --> 00:55:48,600
Speaker 1: their side is right, as opposed to dialogue and debate

916
00:55:48,840 --> 00:55:55,600
Speaker 1: and consideration and kind of back and forth and either

917
00:55:55,680 --> 00:55:58,879
Speaker 1: anymore it's it used to be things, of course more

918
00:56:00,040 --> 00:56:03,000
Speaker 1: to talk about everything coursening. Well, let's not. It's worth

919
00:56:03,040 --> 00:56:06,600
Speaker 1: much worse than that. Are you optimistic? Though, Bob? I

920
00:56:06,640 --> 00:56:11,960
Speaker 1: hate to end things on that note. Um, I'm cautiously optimistic,

921
00:56:12,600 --> 00:56:16,560
Speaker 1: but I'm also really worried. Um, I'm you know, I

922
00:56:16,640 --> 00:56:20,880
Speaker 1: usually preach optimism because who the heck wants to wallowing

923
00:56:20,960 --> 00:56:24,320
Speaker 1: pessimism or follow a pessimist, certainly when it comes to leadership.

924
00:56:24,400 --> 00:56:28,800
Speaker 1: But I think what we're seeing today is of true concern,

925
00:56:29,600 --> 00:56:33,319
Speaker 1: and I worry that only a crisis will we'll get

926
00:56:33,400 --> 00:56:36,400
Speaker 1: us out of this? And who wants that? Well? Bob,

927
00:56:36,440 --> 00:56:38,879
Speaker 1: I love talking to you. Thanks so much for all

928
00:56:38,920 --> 00:56:43,720
Speaker 1: your time and and we'll definitely talk about your book,

929
00:56:43,880 --> 00:56:47,080
Speaker 1: Right of a Lifetime, sell more copies, and and share

930
00:56:47,239 --> 00:56:50,560
Speaker 1: the important messages I think on leadership that I think

931
00:56:50,600 --> 00:56:54,480
Speaker 1: people are really hungry for. Thank you, Thanks for the

932
00:56:54,480 --> 00:56:59,759
Speaker 1: opportunity to appreciate it. And that does it for this

933
00:56:59,800 --> 00:57:02,879
Speaker 1: bonus episode of Back to Biz. Make sure to tune

934
00:57:02,880 --> 00:57:06,840
Speaker 1: in for my new limited series called Turnout, exploring the

935
00:57:06,920 --> 00:57:10,120
Speaker 1: past president and future of voting rights in America. It

936
00:57:10,239 --> 00:57:14,160
Speaker 1: premiers October one and airs every Thursday through the fall season.

937
00:57:14,600 --> 00:57:17,200
Speaker 1: You can find it and subscribe on the I Heart

938
00:57:17,280 --> 00:57:20,640
Speaker 1: Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your

939
00:57:20,640 --> 00:57:24,320
Speaker 1: favorite shows. So until next time, I'm Katie Curic. Thanks

940
00:57:24,320 --> 00:57:29,880
Speaker 1: so much for listening everyone. Back to Biz with Katie

941
00:57:29,880 --> 00:57:32,120
Speaker 1: and Bows is a production of I Heart Radio and

942
00:57:32,240 --> 00:57:36,200
Speaker 1: Katie Currik Media. The executive producers are Katie Kurrik, Bozma

943
00:57:36,280 --> 00:57:40,320
Speaker 1: St John, and Courtney Litz. The supervising producer is Lauren Hansen.

944
00:57:40,880 --> 00:57:45,400
Speaker 1: The associate producers are Derek Clements, Eliza Costas, and Emily Pinto.

945
00:57:45,880 --> 00:57:50,040
Speaker 1: Editing by Derek Clements and Lauren Hansen, Mixing by Derrek Clements.

946
00:57:50,520 --> 00:57:55,000
Speaker 1: Special thanks to Adriana Fasio. For more information about today's episode,

947
00:57:55,040 --> 00:57:57,640
Speaker 1: go to Katie kirk dot com. You can also follow

948
00:57:57,720 --> 00:58:01,920
Speaker 1: Katie Kurik and Bozma st John on Twitter and Instagram.

949
00:58:01,960 --> 00:58:04,360
Speaker 1: For more podcasts for my heart Radio, visit the I

950
00:58:04,440 --> 00:58:07,480
Speaker 1: Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to

951
00:58:07,520 --> 00:58:08,400
Speaker 1: your favorite shows,