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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha and welcome to Stuff

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Speaker 1: When I ever told you production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: And for this month's book club reading, we are reading

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Speaker 2: The Sapling Cage, written by fellow podcaster and friend of

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Speaker 2: the show, Margaret Killjoy. Hey, and yes again, fellow podcaster

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Speaker 2: Anie and I've both been on her show called Cool

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Speaker 2: People Who Did Cool Stuff, So you should go and

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Speaker 2: listen to those if you want to. Also, if you're

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Speaker 2: not already subscribed to Margaret's substack, you should because I'm

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Speaker 2: gonna read this off of our substack Margaret Kiljoy dot

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Speaker 2: substack dot com. That's where you can find it. And

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Speaker 2: she writes, it's a funny place for me to be

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Speaker 2: in as a reasonable established author, But I do feel

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Speaker 2: a sort of weight and importance about this book and

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Speaker 2: this book launch myself as well, because The Sapling Cage

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Speaker 2: is the best thing I've written so far. I'm proud

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Speaker 2: of all of my books, but by giving myself the

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Speaker 2: larger canvas available to this long form, I've been able

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Speaker 2: to start really saying some of the stuff I want

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Speaker 2: to say during this one life I have. The Sapling

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Speaker 2: Cage is a coming of age high fantasy story the

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Speaker 2: first in a trilogy. It's a crossover book, which is

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Speaker 2: a genre developed by the publishing industry to acknowledge that

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Speaker 2: a lot of readers of young adult books are regular

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Speaker 2: adults and not young ones.

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Speaker 1: Us.

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Speaker 2: This genre exists to say, quote, yes, the protagonist is

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Speaker 2: a teenager, but we won't hold ourselves to all the

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Speaker 2: conventions of the young adult genre. Which isn't to say

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Speaker 2: this book is more violent or explicit than other young

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Speaker 2: adult books. It's not, but rather that I didn't have

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Speaker 2: to limit myself to a specific emotional voice or treat

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Speaker 2: them romance within it in some specific and formulaic way,

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Speaker 2: which is important to me because I want to write

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Speaker 2: honestly about the experiences of a trans teenaged witch. Yes,

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Speaker 2: so that is what we are reading, and one day

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Speaker 2: we do to have her on the show. She is

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Speaker 2: quite busy, we understand, doing all those podcasts, writing all

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Speaker 2: of these books, being as amazing as herself. She's been

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Speaker 2: on tours and tours for her books as well. So

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Speaker 2: one day, cross your fingers, it's gonna happen.

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Speaker 1: We really do know, how, y'all.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we do, We really do know, how, y'all. Again,

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Speaker 2: we do want to bring her back about the books

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Speaker 2: and hopefully yeah, when the trilogies come out, maybe we

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Speaker 2: can have a whole big conversation about all the books

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Speaker 2: because they are amazing. But if you haven't read this

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Speaker 2: book yet, I think we should stop you right here

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Speaker 2: and tell you to go and buy her book. The

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Speaker 2: Feminist Press is where I got my book, and stop,

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Speaker 2: read it and then come back, because we're gonna give

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Speaker 2: you some light spoilers. However, we're we're not. We're gonna

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Speaker 2: change it up a little bit because we don't want

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Speaker 2: to give it all away. It's too new. She deserves

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Speaker 2: you to buy her book and hear it from her

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Speaker 2: own mind instead of our summary. So we're gonna give

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Speaker 2: very vague summary without the ending for this right, so

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Speaker 2: that you, again read listeners can go and check this

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Speaker 2: book out because it is an easy reader, right Annie.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and we again we've said this before. Sometimes we

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Speaker 1: worry about page length because we have to read it,

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Speaker 1: like I read it one day, right, So we were

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Speaker 1: I was a little concerned about the length, but we

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Speaker 1: really want to read it. I was really intrigued by

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Speaker 1: the idea of it, and it went so quickly, and

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Speaker 1: it was one of those things when you can. You're

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Speaker 1: looking at the page numbers and you just know like, oh,

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Speaker 1: this is not going to wrap up neatly, or it's

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Speaker 1: going to be another one.

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Speaker 2: This feels like a beginning explanation is definitely like setting

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Speaker 2: the scene for you and then it gets you in there. So, yes,

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Speaker 2: this is the first novel of a trilogy. You know,

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Speaker 2: we love trilogies here, we love them. And it's very

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Speaker 2: dense and it's set up with the plot and many

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Speaker 2: characters because it is a great coming of age story.

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Speaker 2: It has like all these layers of identity, friendship, epic,

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Speaker 2: magical battles, romance, There's a lot. So we're just going

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Speaker 2: to highlight the plot again without giving you the complete ending,

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Speaker 2: because again we think it's worth you taking the time

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Speaker 2: to buy and read her book. So very very loose summary,

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Speaker 2: I guess this is the way I'm going to put this.

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Speaker 2: So we have Laurel, who is the main protagonist, a

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Speaker 2: young girl in a boy's body. She knows who she

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Speaker 2: is and is trying to navigate the world with her secret.

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Speaker 2: Her best friend Lane has been promised to the Witches,

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Speaker 2: which apparently is a thing, as her mother was known

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Speaker 2: as Leona who one of the Leona of the Leaves,

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Speaker 2: I believe, and she was a very famous witch. So

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Speaker 2: therefore Lane was promised to her to become a witch.

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Speaker 2: But Lane doesn't want to be a witch. She wants

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Speaker 2: to be a knight or something completely different. Solution, Laurel

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Speaker 2: will take her place in hopes that she doesn't get caught.

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Speaker 2: She's always wanted to be a witch, She's had dreams

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Speaker 2: of it, She's been ready to be a witch, so

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Speaker 2: she's going to take her place. Laurel's mother, who is worried,

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Speaker 2: is understanding. She's actually very supportive even though she's very worried,

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Speaker 2: and Laurel sets off into her new journey. So yes,

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Speaker 2: she comes out when the witch has come to get

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Speaker 2: pick up Lane to say I am the chosen one,

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Speaker 2: and she is. Laurela is joined then by another young

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Speaker 2: one who has also been promised and named Hex, who

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Speaker 2: did not want to be there and was forced to

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Speaker 2: be there because she was also promised even though she

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Speaker 2: didn't want to and unlike Wayne, didn't have a friend

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Speaker 2: to take her place. So Hex is miserable and wants

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Speaker 2: to make Laurel miserable as well. Then we meet a

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Speaker 2: Rena also promised to be there, raised by Druid, and

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Speaker 2: she quickly becomes friends with everyone, like everyone wants to

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Speaker 2: be her friend. Laurel wants to be her friend, Hex

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Speaker 2: wants to be her friend. There's a little competition that's

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Speaker 2: going on. She seems really cool. But things in this

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Speaker 2: world is brewing, are dying, Propaganda against witches have begun, children,

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Speaker 2: and people are disappearing and dying. A fascist regime is

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Speaker 2: taking control via a queen who has started a new

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Speaker 2: branch of knights, the tax Knights, who are cruel and

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Speaker 2: take things from the poor and regular citizens, really bad people.

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Speaker 2: The witches have decided that they have to come together

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Speaker 2: and oh, they have to kind of have a conversation

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Speaker 2: about what to do because since they are there's all

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Speaker 2: this propaganda against them. Do they fight against this fascist

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Speaker 2: regime or do they fight against this wicked new thing

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Speaker 2: which is killing the trees again, which is known as

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Speaker 2: the blight. So they have to have this very big discussion.

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Speaker 2: Their democracy more of a commune community socialist party, I

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Speaker 2: guess is the way we probably would go. They have

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Speaker 2: a very open conversation and have votes and really you know,

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Speaker 2: go through the time. So that's the way just in

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Speaker 2: trying to figure out what to do. World during this

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Speaker 2: time is learning to battle physically and kind of magically,

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Speaker 2: not quite yet, but she sees like she can see

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Speaker 2: magic and she knows how it works, and she can

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Speaker 2: figure out how to find the lay, which is what

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Speaker 2: she sees as little magic, but more physically again, like

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Speaker 2: she's learning to fight with axes and swords and all

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Speaker 2: these things, and she's trying to learn to control her strength,

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Speaker 2: because there are moments that she does realize she is stronger.

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Speaker 2: But at the same time, she also doesn't want to

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Speaker 2: hurt anything, hates it, HASTI all the while again trying

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Speaker 2: to hide her secret, but slowly her coven all start

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Speaker 2: to discover her secret. Everything happens. I was like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I don't think that could last long, right, No, And yeah,

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Speaker 2: exactly how it went, but no one really cares. She's

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Speaker 2: a witch, she's chosen to learn magic, and she's to

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Speaker 2: them who she says she is. So it's quite beautiful.

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Speaker 2: Of course, there's still kind of like a lot of

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Speaker 2: confusion and conversations that has to be worked out for

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Speaker 2: herself and the witches, but you know, they're all like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: you're one of us. Of course you can see the lay.

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Speaker 2: You're magical. Welcome. We also learned that there was another

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Speaker 2: witch before Laurel who was also hiding that same secret,

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Speaker 2: Dame Katkin, but had found a spell to make her

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Speaker 2: as she was, but it also included using a bone

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Speaker 2: from another person, and that person that helped her was there,

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Speaker 2: but kat Can had actually disappeared. The Sourel was really

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Speaker 2: big fighter for her. She actually didn't know the spell though,

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Speaker 2: That's what she has to say. It's like, you know, yeah,

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Speaker 2: we did this, and I love her all these things,

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Speaker 2: and then she disappears and we don't know what happens.

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Speaker 2: I have a feeling that's gonna be a later, later thing,

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Speaker 2: you know, you know. So we find out that our

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Speaker 2: witches who are using blight magic to make themselves more

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Speaker 2: powerful and killing innocent people, the tax Knights are relentless

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Speaker 2: and trying to come after anyone who would be against

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Speaker 2: the queen, including and especially the witches. Also we have

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Speaker 2: again He's who's still there, has left the coven to

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Speaker 2: be a knight, and she is now happier than ever,

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Speaker 2: but her friend, a deity, is not happy, and she's

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Speaker 2: very sad, and she's just miserable.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, there hex joins like the anti Knights. There's

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Speaker 1: sort of like knights that left the knighthood to fight

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Speaker 1: the Knights.

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Speaker 2: Yes, essentially fight the fascists.

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Speaker 1: This is kind of what it is that.

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Speaker 2: Kind of lasts remaining all the while we see more

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Speaker 2: and more trees dying. We have warm monsters wy r

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Speaker 2: M an undergrad sea monster with eyes as well. We

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Speaker 2: have all these different things, and then we have the

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Speaker 2: whelps all fighting them and the Welps I didn't explain

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Speaker 2: this earlier are the youngest of the witches, are the

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Speaker 2: newest witches who are learning to become witches, and all

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Speaker 2: the become dames. They're called whelps at the beginning. They're

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Speaker 2: the ones that's doing all the adventure, you know what

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Speaker 2: I'm saying, and finding a lot and discovering a lot

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Speaker 2: within this time. And during this time, two of them,

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Speaker 2: including Deity, have figured out how to use this blight

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Speaker 2: magic to heal people and have done so. So that's

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Speaker 2: something to think about. And by the way, it's used

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Speaker 2: through saplings that are in skulls, in cages or that's

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Speaker 2: where they're like maintained.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like the power they're drawing up the lay.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that has a sapling as well as a new

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Speaker 2: school as in like recently murdered person goal. And it

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Speaker 2: comes with the costs though. So there's this hole back

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Speaker 2: and forth when they are discovered that they had used

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Speaker 2: as magic, they can't see the lay anymore and the

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Speaker 2: Lay won't choose them. So it was all these things

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Speaker 2: and we have Laurel here fighting for them. They can't

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Speaker 2: be you know, they're trying to be excommunicated or being

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Speaker 2: sent off, and they're like, no, we can help, and

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Speaker 2: they're still a part of our coven.

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Speaker 1: Very sweet.

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Speaker 2: Then we have this huge gathering of everyone due to

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Speaker 2: the threat of the blight magic as well as the

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Speaker 2: abusiveness of the Queen about what they're going to do

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Speaker 2: to fight against this evil and how to do it

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Speaker 2: and who will be in charge of who will do

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Speaker 2: what and all these things. And it comes to the

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Speaker 2: point that they have decided to allow the witches to

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Speaker 2: stop the black magic first and then if that doesn't work,

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Speaker 2: they'll go after the queen.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. A lot of politics at that part.

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Speaker 2: A lot of politics back and forth, back and forth.

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Speaker 2: And then we have world discovering some things, and then

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Speaker 2: we have we do have a great ending with a

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Speaker 2: kind of battle with the unexpected people to be the

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Speaker 2: villains were expected. It's good to high wall you read

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Speaker 2: into things and if you think about it too long,

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Speaker 2: you know it kind of is. But then you have

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Speaker 2: also a happily ever after with Laurel really figuring out

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Speaker 2: who she was and who she is and who she

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Speaker 2: always has been. Also a great little reunion between and

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Speaker 2: Lane and Laurel really cute too. Yeah, well all of

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Speaker 2: them all, Rna and Laurel become a couple. They're also

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Speaker 2: very confused back and forth conversation. It's also very sweet.

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Speaker 1: They're figuring things out.

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Speaker 2: They're figuring it out. We have a feeling there's going

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Speaker 2: to be things that need to be talked about. Yes, right, Okay,

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Speaker 2: So that is my very vague, loose summary of this

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Speaker 2: wonderful book The Sapling Cage, which again you should really

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Speaker 2: take some time to read because these characters are fantastic

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Speaker 2: and they're very sweet. Love the use of magic, and

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Speaker 2: I love the way that Margaret has turned the character

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Speaker 2: of the witches. It is something that is unexpected, which

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Speaker 2: is not typical of what we know about witches.

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Speaker 1: Yes, because I'm sure we'll talk about this more. But

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Speaker 1: they have seen so much loss and so much persecution

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Speaker 1: that they're very almost feral. They have to learn to fight,

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Speaker 1: and so one of the things one of the witches

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Speaker 1: says early on is about the power of threes, which

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Speaker 1: I love because it's a trilogy, but it's the seasons

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Speaker 1: of Summer, Fall, Spring, So I think that's how it's

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Speaker 1: going to play out. Is this was learning the physical part.

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Speaker 1: The next part will be the word part, which is

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Speaker 1: the other tool of fighting that was described, and then

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Speaker 1: the third part will be the magic part, because the

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Speaker 1: spring is when the rebirth and the magic happens. That's

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Speaker 1: just what I think. But yeah, it was cool because

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Speaker 1: you got to see a lot of viewpoints and have

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Speaker 1: a lot of discussion about a disagreement, but like kind

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Speaker 1: of a healthy disagreement most of the time, of like

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Speaker 1: what should we do? What do we think about this?

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Speaker 1: How should we move forward? But it was all undergirded

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Speaker 1: by the fact that they've lost when there are five

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Speaker 1: Kevins and there was one left and like stragglers of

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Speaker 1: the others, right, and so having this, having sustained all

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Speaker 1: that loss, having to keep in mind, how do we

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Speaker 1: keep ourselves alive, but also this realm line, right, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's really good and the imagery is amazing.

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Speaker 2: I just.

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Speaker 1: I love it.

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Speaker 2: It is, it's very good. Yeah, So we're gonna talk

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Speaker 2: about some themes, and I guess ideas within the book

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Speaker 2: is it's not all in this themes. And I'm sure

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Speaker 2: we'll have a lot more.

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Speaker 1: To say.

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Speaker 2: As what the trilogy comes about and as when Margaret

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Speaker 2: comes out of the show. But one of the big

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Speaker 2: things for sure is identity, whether it's like gender or

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Speaker 2: sexual identity, all those things came into play. And here's

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Speaker 2: a quote that I really actually these are three quotes

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Speaker 2: that are from Laurel that I thought were like really

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Speaker 2: sustained and like, yeah, this is what she's going through

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Speaker 2: her thought process. She writes, one of my earliest memories

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Speaker 2: was being glad that my name was Laurel, as common

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Speaker 2: for girls as it was for boys. And you know,

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Speaker 2: the whole idea of dead naming and then renaming themselves

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Speaker 2: and rebirth is a big deal within every community. I've

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Speaker 2: talked about my own name and trying to find my

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Speaker 2: identity as a Korean person using my American name and

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Speaker 2: all these things, and I know that's something that's a

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Speaker 2: huge conversation and really important in being able to claim

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Speaker 2: a name and filling home in a name really does

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Speaker 2: bring a part of your identity, right. I thought that

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Speaker 2: was really interesting. I was like, okay, from Jump this

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Speaker 2: is by the way, yeah, chapter one, this is what

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Speaker 2: we're reading from chapter one. And then she sayes on

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Speaker 2: to say talking about how she is trying to navigate

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Speaker 2: this world and knowing who she is but not necessarily

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Speaker 2: accepted by everyone. She says those and she's talking about

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Speaker 2: her mom and Lane are the only two people in

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Speaker 2: town who I talked about how I should have been

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Speaker 2: a girl, and like in this other conversation and understanding

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Speaker 2: not everyone's going to understand, which is a shame, which

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Speaker 2: is a shame. And then she talks about when she

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Speaker 2: gets ready to be a part of the coven and

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Speaker 2: Lane gives her her mother's clothes. She says, I took

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Speaker 2: it and put it on, talking about a necklace. It

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Speaker 2: hung just above the low neckline of the long dress.

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Speaker 2: The stone cool and comforting against my chest. Despite how

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Speaker 2: I was born, I was going to be a witch,

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Speaker 2: despite how I was born, I was going to get

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Speaker 2: to live as a woman. And it was such a

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Speaker 2: beautiful scene of her being able to have her own

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Speaker 2: dresses as hers and being able to really fully embrace

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Speaker 2: who she's always been. I'm sweet.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah. And at this point Lane wants to be

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Speaker 1: a knight, and it is acceptable for women to be knights. However,

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Speaker 1: it's not really acceptable on a large scale at least

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Speaker 1: for men to be witches. So even though Laurel is

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Speaker 1: a woman identifies this way, all of this has the

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Speaker 1: fear of it. And it's really sweet to see her

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Speaker 1: have this scene of like trying on the clothes and

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Speaker 1: being so excited and like, yes, I finally get to

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Speaker 1: do this right, and that gets to do what she

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Speaker 1: wants to exactly.

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Speaker 2: The fact that they're protecting each other is very, very precious,

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Speaker 2: and the fact that they love each other for that

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Speaker 2: and to help each other live each other's dreams, that's

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Speaker 2: the part of that that's so And this is the

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Speaker 2: part in which we she Laurel has a conversation because

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Speaker 2: she finds out after the fact. Because she just wanted

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Speaker 2: to be a witch so badly, she didn't think about

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Speaker 2: it even if she was discovered, like, oh, there was

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Speaker 2: another person who was like me, and they were able

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Speaker 2: to change into becoming an actual and like bodily that way,

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Speaker 2: and her trying to figure out is this what she wanted?

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Speaker 2: Why would she want this? What does she want? And

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Speaker 2: this is what she writes, all I knew is I

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Speaker 2: wanted to be a witch. All I knew was I

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Speaker 2: wanted people to let me be a woman, to call

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Speaker 2: me a woman, to treat me like a woman. Anything

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Speaker 2: about my body felt secondary. So in understanding that that's

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Speaker 2: who she is and everything else, it's kind of just like, Okay,

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Speaker 2: maybe this is what it seems like, but is it

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Speaker 2: really who I am? No, she's talking about course like

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Speaker 2: she's gotten injured. At this point. She's like, so, my

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Speaker 2: biggest problem right now is I have a broken hand,

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Speaker 2: which is like, yes, that's the bigger problem. But I

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Speaker 2: think it's really interesting because she has conversation throughout the

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Speaker 2: book because they are talking about whether or not the

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Speaker 2: spell exists, who can do it, what is what the

342
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Speaker 2: cost would be, and for somebody to sacrifice part of

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Speaker 2: themselves for her, for her for this and also the

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Speaker 2: fact that because we're gonna talk about relationships in a minute,

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Speaker 2: but the fact that two people stepped up fighting over

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Speaker 2: who would be the one to sacrifice themselves is really

347
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Speaker 2: really precious.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah it is, And I'm glad that conversation was

349
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Speaker 1: in there, just her wrestling with what did she really want?

350
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Speaker 1: Because at first she was so determined to get this

351
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Speaker 1: spell and there was only like in theory two people

352
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Speaker 1: that knew it, and one of them may be dead,

353
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Speaker 1: like we don't know. But then kind of coming around

354
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Speaker 1: to you like you know what, maybe I don't Maybe

355
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Speaker 1: I don't need that. Yeah, maybe why.

356
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Speaker 2: Am I wanting this? Why why do I Yeah, there's

357
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Speaker 2: a lot to be said about that, about not liking yourselves,

358
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Speaker 2: but also like it's interesting to see characters like Hex

359
00:19:01,520 --> 00:19:04,280
Speaker 2: who also felt like she she needed to figure like

360
00:19:04,320 --> 00:19:07,879
Speaker 2: she knew herself but she couldn't be herself and really

361
00:19:07,920 --> 00:19:12,320
Speaker 2: hating that as well, like she's been predetermined to be

362
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Speaker 2: a witch Hex, but she's like she's hating every bit

363
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Speaker 2: of it and hated Laurel because she thought that Laurel

364
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Speaker 2: was buying into it and not seeing the truth. And

365
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Speaker 2: then in actuolity, she's like, oh I get it, you

366
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Speaker 2: got a secret too, Like it was really interesting to see.

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Speaker 2: I also want to talk about Aspen and his character

368
00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:31,879
Speaker 2: because I was like, look at look at Margaret. Of

369
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Speaker 2: course she does. Of course she need to bring in

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Speaker 2: this asexual character who has to like also fit himself

371
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Speaker 2: in the aspect of like, oh, I have to say

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Speaker 2: it this way in order to be normal, quote unquote,

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Speaker 2: because if not, they'll harass me. But I'm not interested

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Speaker 2: in sex whatsoever. I'm not interested in men or women.

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Speaker 2: I just want to be here.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean it's it's both sad and kind

377
00:19:55,040 --> 00:19:57,640
Speaker 1: of clever what he did, because basically they have these

378
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Speaker 1: rules they make that they live by, and he made

379
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Speaker 1: one that was like no relationships for me my head.

380
00:20:05,480 --> 00:20:07,760
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, okay, yeah sure.

381
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Speaker 2: But he's also one of the most enjoyable characters I

382
00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:15,520
Speaker 2: did really love, like Margaret putting in all these sarcastic

383
00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:20,520
Speaker 2: notes in this fuck yeah almost like Waite, it doesn't

384
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Speaker 2: fit in the realm necessarily of like this what seems

385
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Speaker 2: like it should be an ancient tale, but I'm like.

386
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Speaker 1: I enjoy this.

387
00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:33,159
Speaker 2: And Espen was that character and that like he was

388
00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:35,840
Speaker 2: just sarcastic all the time with the rock and be like, hey,

389
00:20:36,760 --> 00:20:38,760
Speaker 2: like you said this, so I don't what you want,

390
00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:44,720
Speaker 2: like just antagonizing people the entire time, which was quite entertaining.

391
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Speaker 2: And then I think another big conversation in this, because

392
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Speaker 2: we had it from Jump, is about choices, being able

393
00:20:52,119 --> 00:20:54,679
Speaker 2: to choose for yourself your own destiny. We see it

394
00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:56,879
Speaker 2: with Lane, we see it with Laurel, we see it

395
00:20:56,920 --> 00:20:59,960
Speaker 2: with Hex, we see it with Deity. There's so many

396
00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:03,320
Speaker 2: a conversation in trying to figure out how to get

397
00:21:03,359 --> 00:21:08,359
Speaker 2: their own choices. And eventually, even though the Whelps were

398
00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:12,320
Speaker 2: locked in in the end, a lot of the older witches,

399
00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:16,159
Speaker 2: elder witches, were like, nah, you're free to choose. You

400
00:21:16,240 --> 00:21:18,840
Speaker 2: chose this. At one point, we have a scene in

401
00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:23,160
Speaker 2: which Laurel refuses to kill a fawn. I get it

402
00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:26,160
Speaker 2: because she's like, you don't do that. They're innocent creatures.

403
00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:28,439
Speaker 2: Why are you doing this? And because of her choice,

404
00:21:28,520 --> 00:21:30,479
Speaker 2: they were without mate and they're like, you chose what

405
00:21:30,520 --> 00:21:33,800
Speaker 2: you chose, and that's fine. We were good with that,

406
00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:35,800
Speaker 2: even though she thought they were all get mad at

407
00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:38,480
Speaker 2: her and that they she would be severely punished on

408
00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:42,960
Speaker 2: all these things. But it became very clear that she's like, oh, yes,

409
00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:44,840
Speaker 2: there are rules, but at the same time, there are

410
00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:48,679
Speaker 2: allowances to be able to have free will in this moment,

411
00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:51,600
Speaker 2: and here's a quote that I thought it was great.

412
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Speaker 2: So this is after Hex decides to run away and

413
00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:57,879
Speaker 2: she's allowed to run away to go join the Anti

414
00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:01,240
Speaker 2: Knights Nights. Laurel says, you're going to change your name.

415
00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:03,520
Speaker 2: I asked her. I figured your parents named you Hex

416
00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:06,359
Speaker 2: because you were promised to the order, not going to

417
00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:08,520
Speaker 2: change it, she said, I mean all my life, I've

418
00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:10,439
Speaker 2: hidden my name because it meant I had to be

419
00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:12,359
Speaker 2: a witch. But now I don't have to be. So

420
00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:14,879
Speaker 2: it's a reminder of who I didn't have to be,

421
00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:17,680
Speaker 2: who I got to choose to be. And I thought

422
00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:21,120
Speaker 2: that was such an enlightening moment for all of them,

423
00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:24,679
Speaker 2: and understanding that this is really important. Being able to

424
00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:29,119
Speaker 2: choose your destiny and having some kind of autonomy is

425
00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:30,119
Speaker 2: really important.

426
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Speaker 1: Yes, And I think there are so many instances of

427
00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:41,560
Speaker 1: that when it can kind of feel odd when you're

428
00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:45,240
Speaker 1: like thinking about it, perhaps from our modern day standards

429
00:22:45,280 --> 00:22:52,040
Speaker 1: of like these kids they're running around, but you know,

430
00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:55,359
Speaker 1: it's very I think it's very fulfilling. And I like

431
00:22:55,480 --> 00:23:00,919
Speaker 1: that a lot of times the kind of tour which

432
00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:06,639
Speaker 1: is like laments, well just kind of like be like, okay,

433
00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:10,199
Speaker 1: why think about like explain it to me I'm not

434
00:23:10,240 --> 00:23:13,399
Speaker 1: going to stop you. I'm just curious. And then she

435
00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:17,159
Speaker 1: goes on her way, right and I like that, or

436
00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:20,080
Speaker 1: just like, think about your decision, but it's your decision.

437
00:23:20,280 --> 00:23:22,080
Speaker 2: I mean, she really does just like I disagree with you,

438
00:23:22,680 --> 00:23:23,879
Speaker 2: but okay you do you?

439
00:23:24,520 --> 00:23:28,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, pretty much. She's often like all right, I'm not

440
00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:30,880
Speaker 1: going to help you out, but good luck.

441
00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:35,400
Speaker 2: I give you a warning. Good look at that. I also, yeah,

442
00:23:35,480 --> 00:23:39,840
Speaker 2: did find really like part of this conversation in all

443
00:23:39,920 --> 00:23:42,760
Speaker 2: of this is that they were they were respecting the

444
00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:45,919
Speaker 2: younger as you were saying, in that giving them the

445
00:23:46,000 --> 00:23:48,919
Speaker 2: option to have a part be part of the conversation

446
00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:51,680
Speaker 2: being there. Like she's like, okay, you want to fight

447
00:23:51,800 --> 00:23:55,840
Speaker 2: for data and the other one who what we see

448
00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:58,280
Speaker 2: is wrong, they violated it and not only wrong, but

449
00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:01,240
Speaker 2: it kind of means that they can't practice magic because

450
00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:03,720
Speaker 2: of this. Then y'all need to figure out how to

451
00:24:03,840 --> 00:24:07,679
Speaker 2: fix this. And she's like, we're holding you responsible, accountable

452
00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:10,040
Speaker 2: and allowing you to do it. And they took up

453
00:24:10,080 --> 00:24:13,480
Speaker 2: that accountability and responsibility and took off in that in

454
00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:15,879
Speaker 2: that journey, even though it was very dangerous and you know,

455
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:18,439
Speaker 2: almost killed them in general. But then they discovered so

456
00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:22,280
Speaker 2: many more things, but that that in itself felt like

457
00:24:22,359 --> 00:24:25,720
Speaker 2: a conversation that we often have like the younger generations. Sure,

458
00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:29,520
Speaker 2: we have to remember they're human. They're allowed to make choices,

459
00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:32,359
Speaker 2: and they are able to take accountability and take responsibility,

460
00:24:32,359 --> 00:24:36,440
Speaker 2: and oftentimes when you give them the right tools and resources,

461
00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:37,920
Speaker 2: they really will do great.

462
00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:40,520
Speaker 1: Yeah.

463
00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:44,800
Speaker 2: Sometimes yeah, And I say this for myself even because

464
00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:47,720
Speaker 2: there's choices that I made as a kid. I'm like, God, damn, why.

465
00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:53,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, gotta learn her not go because but at

466
00:24:53,119 --> 00:24:54,760
Speaker 1: the same time, I was one of the more responsible

467
00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:56,680
Speaker 1: ones in the teenage years.

468
00:24:56,760 --> 00:25:00,040
Speaker 2: So you know, I'm just saying, you gotta eat. I

469
00:25:00,280 --> 00:25:04,480
Speaker 2: let people learn and grow. It hurts, but it does

470
00:25:04,520 --> 00:25:07,120
Speaker 2: give allow them for that choices, whether it's good or bad.

471
00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:11,800
Speaker 2: And then, as we said, obviously relationships throughout in this thing,

472
00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:14,960
Speaker 2: there's so many like we had the relationship again with

473
00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:17,480
Speaker 2: Lene and Laurel, who was the purest form of like

474
00:25:17,560 --> 00:25:20,960
Speaker 2: best friends and love that they are willing to do

475
00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:23,120
Speaker 2: for each other and sacrifice for each other and help

476
00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:27,160
Speaker 2: each other, as well as Daity and Hex again they

477
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:30,159
Speaker 2: were the best friends that hated everyone, but it really

478
00:25:30,200 --> 00:25:32,600
Speaker 2: put them together. And at one point there was a

479
00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:35,400
Speaker 2: question of like do you love her, and Dadi is like, yes,

480
00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:37,400
Speaker 2: but she doesn't love me, and I don't care anymore,

481
00:25:37,440 --> 00:25:39,560
Speaker 2: Like yeah, genuinely.

482
00:25:41,160 --> 00:25:44,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, she was going through it.

483
00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:48,080
Speaker 2: She was poor thing, and then you get you have

484
00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:52,320
Speaker 2: the love between Laurel and Rnay again, the confusion, the

485
00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:55,480
Speaker 2: kind of working things out for Rna herself, who was like,

486
00:25:55,600 --> 00:25:58,399
Speaker 2: you know, I don't know. I'm confused, and you're this

487
00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:00,679
Speaker 2: and now you're that, but you're this, like is this

488
00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:03,399
Speaker 2: back and forth? And Laurel also feeling confused because it

489
00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:05,360
Speaker 2: kind of felt like a betrayal, but at the same

490
00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:06,359
Speaker 2: time she understood it.

491
00:26:07,640 --> 00:26:13,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's a lot. Yeah, I mean they kind of

492
00:26:13,880 --> 00:26:17,640
Speaker 1: talked it through and Arena was like, you know, I've

493
00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:20,159
Speaker 1: always been attracted to boys, and so I felt like

494
00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:23,959
Speaker 1: when I found out this secret, then it made sense,

495
00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:26,879
Speaker 1: but now it doesn't make sense because I know you

496
00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:30,879
Speaker 1: and that's not who you are. So I'm just struggling

497
00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:35,480
Speaker 1: with this. And Laurel understandably felt her, but also was like, no,

498
00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:38,480
Speaker 1: I okay, I get it. But they kind of kept

499
00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:43,000
Speaker 1: working through it, and I really appreciated that they were like, Okay.

500
00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:46,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's just oh, obviously something that they're gonna have

501
00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:49,879
Speaker 2: talk about but that Rna was able to be like,

502
00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:52,639
Speaker 2: IW will sacrifice abovee for you. Yes, if this is

503
00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:54,760
Speaker 2: what you want, I will do this in a heartbeat.

504
00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:57,040
Speaker 2: So she was ready. And that's in fact, the whole journeys,

505
00:26:57,040 --> 00:26:58,960
Speaker 2: whenever they would go anywhere, she was right there with her.

506
00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:00,160
Speaker 1: Yes.

507
00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:03,760
Speaker 2: So all that, But then also again Dame Katkin and

508
00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:06,919
Speaker 2: Dame Sorel, it's just a blip in that conversation. I

509
00:27:06,920 --> 00:27:10,240
Speaker 2: have a feeling we're gonna get a deeper look possibly

510
00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:13,720
Speaker 2: later down the road. But like I really because like

511
00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:18,080
Speaker 2: she really stands up for Laurel in that private conversation

512
00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:22,439
Speaker 2: among the elder witches, which again is like heartbreaking but

513
00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:26,119
Speaker 2: you know, very realistic in that in that term, and

514
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:28,399
Speaker 2: they were having them back and forth, and Dame Sorel

515
00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:31,560
Speaker 2: fighting tooth and nail in order to make sure everyone

516
00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:35,000
Speaker 2: understood Laurel belonged there as well as Laurel is a

517
00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:38,760
Speaker 2: woman who who's a young girl going into her womanhood

518
00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:42,840
Speaker 2: just like everybody, all the other whelps. It was very

519
00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:44,720
Speaker 2: sweet to see. But again I have a feeling we

520
00:27:44,760 --> 00:28:02,160
Speaker 2: need to remember, Yeah, these names just saying and then

521
00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:05,120
Speaker 2: we have the propaganda used by evil. I really wanted

522
00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:07,360
Speaker 2: to put this in here because we know Margaret well

523
00:28:07,440 --> 00:28:11,720
Speaker 2: enough to know that this is very pointed in this time.

524
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:15,639
Speaker 2: And yeah, the whole like killing and then making creating

525
00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:17,600
Speaker 2: a mess and then blaming the witches for it because

526
00:28:17,600 --> 00:28:21,080
Speaker 2: they know they are an easy scapegoat any marginalized community

527
00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:25,960
Speaker 2: that it was able to be used from jump is easy,

528
00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:29,679
Speaker 2: easy prey. And they have that with a queen, with

529
00:28:29,840 --> 00:28:33,240
Speaker 2: other people who are seen as evil, and like they're like, Okay,

530
00:28:33,280 --> 00:28:35,080
Speaker 2: this is what's happening. As well as the fact that

531
00:28:35,119 --> 00:28:39,960
Speaker 2: we have those who are really excited about stepping on

532
00:28:41,040 --> 00:28:44,000
Speaker 2: those who are already in a hard position, so like

533
00:28:44,080 --> 00:28:46,600
Speaker 2: the villagers who are being over attacked and who are

534
00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:49,160
Speaker 2: being run by like all the diseases, the blight that

535
00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:51,760
Speaker 2: was happening, like it was they were the ones who

536
00:28:51,760 --> 00:28:56,000
Speaker 2: were suffering the most because of this type of evil.

537
00:28:57,280 --> 00:29:03,920
Speaker 2: I'm sure again because spoiler alert, the queen doesn't die.

538
00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:06,880
Speaker 2: You should know this in the story.

539
00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:10,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, well it is a trilogy.

540
00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:13,280
Speaker 2: It is a trilogy, and she is a good politician,

541
00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:13,800
Speaker 2: so it.

542
00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:22,480
Speaker 1: Seems anyway, the wind blows, the politician goes. Yeah. Yeah,

543
00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:27,040
Speaker 1: I mean it was very because when we first meet

544
00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:31,080
Speaker 1: the witches and they come to collect Laurel. Like some

545
00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:34,400
Speaker 1: of them are wounded, and it's because it's so dangerous

546
00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:38,760
Speaker 1: just for them to exist and to travel, and because

547
00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:43,000
Speaker 1: there has been all of this misinformation and disinformation spread

548
00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:47,880
Speaker 1: about them, and like I said, they've been kind of

549
00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:55,400
Speaker 1: widely decimated and they have to be careful who they

550
00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:58,000
Speaker 1: trust and talk to. But it seemed like at least

551
00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:01,960
Speaker 1: in the suffering village that they went to first, they

552
00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:08,360
Speaker 1: were like which is just the the prior, and they

553
00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:11,920
Speaker 1: were not into the nights at all.

554
00:30:12,280 --> 00:30:14,320
Speaker 2: As as a thing that aside, note that I didn't

555
00:30:14,360 --> 00:30:16,840
Speaker 2: mention in the story. But the more powerful the which

556
00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:21,720
Speaker 2: the more I want to say grotesque, but monster like

557
00:30:21,840 --> 00:30:24,280
Speaker 2: is how she describes it. They become, but they become

558
00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:27,800
Speaker 2: more less like human and more like some other creatures.

559
00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:30,720
Speaker 2: So some of them had like talents, I believe, and

560
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:33,880
Speaker 2: like ye had face of monsters. Some of them were

561
00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:37,240
Speaker 2: like so pale and skinny. They looked like skin and bones,

562
00:30:37,280 --> 00:30:40,840
Speaker 2: like they were someone was giant huge apparently like so

563
00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:44,920
Speaker 2: the the even like their outer appearents would portray them

564
00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:48,080
Speaker 2: to be the villains and these conversations when actually they're

565
00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:50,960
Speaker 2: sacrificing their humanity to save humans.

566
00:30:52,720 --> 00:30:55,680
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, and I would I would also add in

567
00:30:55,760 --> 00:31:00,880
Speaker 1: here there was an interesting say, we didn't really get

568
00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:03,120
Speaker 1: to see too much of that. I think we'll come back.

569
00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:08,440
Speaker 1: But another thing with you know, propaganda like this is

570
00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:12,120
Speaker 1: the brature of information, and there's some kind of throwaway

571
00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:17,640
Speaker 1: lines about like like for giants actually real Like there

572
00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:19,680
Speaker 1: was a couple of things where I was like, so

573
00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:22,560
Speaker 1: all this history got erased.

574
00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:26,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, they became legends. Yeah, half the creatures that they encountered,

575
00:31:26,920 --> 00:31:28,560
Speaker 2: they're like, well I didn't think they existed, but here

576
00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:29,000
Speaker 2: they are.

577
00:31:29,680 --> 00:31:32,080
Speaker 1: Yeah. So I don't know, I don't know where that's

578
00:31:32,120 --> 00:31:33,840
Speaker 1: going to go, but I thought that was interesting because

579
00:31:33,840 --> 00:31:37,320
Speaker 1: that is another key point in propaganda efforts like this.

580
00:31:37,960 --> 00:31:40,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then the fact that monsters and again they

581
00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:42,320
Speaker 2: were able to talk to them and their demons, but

582
00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:45,560
Speaker 2: yet they're made to be that way.

583
00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:46,760
Speaker 1: Yeah.

584
00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:52,480
Speaker 2: Again kind of briefly talking about the unity they come

585
00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:55,480
Speaker 2: through the fact that Laurel and the Wells were able

586
00:31:55,480 --> 00:31:58,640
Speaker 2: to bring them all together, because it really was the

587
00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:00,880
Speaker 2: fact that Lane and Laurel were friends and we were

588
00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:04,080
Speaker 2: able to get that knighthood to come with them, as

589
00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:06,320
Speaker 2: well as the fact that they knew Espen already with

590
00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:09,040
Speaker 2: the anti knighthood coming in and bringing in people who

591
00:32:09,120 --> 00:32:12,640
Speaker 2: they knew would be a part of that type of alliance.

592
00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:15,960
Speaker 2: They come in and having a whole conversation which was

593
00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:17,960
Speaker 2: very political and took forever, and they just went back

594
00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:19,560
Speaker 2: and forth and back and forth and back and forth.

595
00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:21,320
Speaker 2: I honestly was waiting for them to wanted them to

596
00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:23,440
Speaker 2: be a betrayer for you.

597
00:32:25,040 --> 00:32:27,520
Speaker 1: Uh, I don't think so.

598
00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:32,920
Speaker 2: Oh no, I just assume one of them would have

599
00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:35,240
Speaker 2: already been in leaks to they kind of were, but

600
00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:36,800
Speaker 2: like even more so.

601
00:32:37,480 --> 00:32:42,920
Speaker 1: But like, yeah, I mean we like we said trilogy, well, it.

602
00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:45,720
Speaker 2: Was all shaky grounds. There was a lot of like yeah,

603
00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:49,160
Speaker 2: back and forth, and the Witches talk a lot about

604
00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:51,520
Speaker 2: having to back down and play the game essentially in

605
00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:53,840
Speaker 2: order to get things done.

606
00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:57,040
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, and they I mean, there's certainly not a

607
00:32:57,080 --> 00:33:01,160
Speaker 1: lot of trust there, but there was an understanding that

608
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:04,080
Speaker 1: this is a bad situation, right right, and we need

609
00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:05,840
Speaker 1: to got to fix it. Yeah.

610
00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:08,840
Speaker 2: Now, now some of the villagers were like that as well,

611
00:33:08,880 --> 00:33:11,400
Speaker 2: like yeah, you know what, since you've been here, everything

612
00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:13,200
Speaker 2: has been bad and we've been hearing all of these

613
00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:15,160
Speaker 2: cells and that was the other part of the propaganda

614
00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:17,520
Speaker 2: we didn't talk about was that it had been all

615
00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:19,680
Speaker 2: around the lands that it was the witches and whiches

616
00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:21,680
Speaker 2: are bad. The whiches are bad, even to the point

617
00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:24,880
Speaker 2: that Laye, who wrote to Laurel, was saying, Hey, I

618
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:28,480
Speaker 2: don't believe them, but just so you know, stay away.

619
00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:30,120
Speaker 2: You might want to run away because the witches are

620
00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:31,720
Speaker 2: not going to be good in the soon. They are

621
00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:35,000
Speaker 2: looking real bad right now. Yeah, So that's kind of

622
00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:37,240
Speaker 2: part of that too, which we know happens a lot,

623
00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:42,479
Speaker 2: the disinformation, misinformation. And then probably the last thing I'll

624
00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:44,280
Speaker 2: hit on is life and death more death.

625
00:33:45,520 --> 00:33:46,360
Speaker 1: Yeah.

626
00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:50,120
Speaker 2: In this conversation, and here's a quote, it says it

627
00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:52,680
Speaker 2: was bizarre to realize that the most magical things in

628
00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:56,480
Speaker 2: this world are also at their heart mundane and fragile,

629
00:33:56,880 --> 00:33:59,880
Speaker 2: That a magical sapling can be uprooted, that a witch

630
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:03,760
Speaker 2: die with the sword in her chest the same as anyone, right,

631
00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:07,479
Speaker 2: And they lost a lot of people. It seems actually

632
00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:08,800
Speaker 2: like five witches.

633
00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:11,480
Speaker 1: It's more than that, was it.

634
00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:12,680
Speaker 2: That's all I could remember.

635
00:34:12,880 --> 00:34:14,879
Speaker 1: It's more than that, But a lot of it are

636
00:34:14,960 --> 00:34:15,920
Speaker 1: not people we know.

637
00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:20,680
Speaker 2: Okay, where it like blips into the conversation. Well, like

638
00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:23,279
Speaker 2: I said, there's a lot of death in this and

639
00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:24,919
Speaker 2: that that kind of understanding.

640
00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:25,640
Speaker 1: Uh.

641
00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:31,120
Speaker 2: We have a moment when when Laurel is facing the

642
00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:33,799
Speaker 2: sea monster and thinking that she's about to drown and

643
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:36,920
Speaker 2: that uh Arne is about to drown as well, and

644
00:34:36,960 --> 00:34:39,200
Speaker 2: where there's a part where she thinks she's about to die,

645
00:34:39,880 --> 00:34:42,560
Speaker 2: she's realizing who she is, truly who she is, and

646
00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:44,960
Speaker 2: that she says, I don't want to die a boy.

647
00:34:45,160 --> 00:34:47,439
Speaker 2: I don't want to die with people thinking this way

648
00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:49,759
Speaker 2: because I am a woman. I'm a girl. And then

649
00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:52,840
Speaker 2: she's talking about like who she's becoming and really really

650
00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:55,879
Speaker 2: believing who she is and finding a place in this

651
00:34:55,960 --> 00:35:00,359
Speaker 2: in this conversation of her body being as well as

652
00:35:00,400 --> 00:35:03,400
Speaker 2: her heart, and it's kind of one of those moments

653
00:35:03,400 --> 00:35:05,640
Speaker 2: that you realize, yes, you have so much to do,

654
00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:09,200
Speaker 2: so obviously this is going to be a catalyst and

655
00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:12,560
Speaker 2: this giant journey in battle and war that she knows

656
00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:15,200
Speaker 2: she has stuff to finish.

657
00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:18,920
Speaker 1: Yes, And it's also kind of going back to what

658
00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:21,000
Speaker 1: you were talking about where she couldn't kill the fawn.

659
00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:24,799
Speaker 1: They have a lesson. The Welps have a lesson later

660
00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:30,440
Speaker 1: where one of the witches was like, you know, how

661
00:35:30,480 --> 00:35:33,600
Speaker 1: do you if you're overwhelmed? But how do you go down?

662
00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:34,480
Speaker 2: Like what do you do?

663
00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:36,600
Speaker 1: And there was like you know, run away, and then

664
00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:40,960
Speaker 1: somebody who was like baiting was like you goed out fighting, kicking, biting,

665
00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:44,080
Speaker 1: scream like the whole thing, like we do not stop.

666
00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:46,960
Speaker 1: And the Witch's like, yeah, we're we're we are. Numbers

667
00:35:46,960 --> 00:35:52,040
Speaker 1: are so few, it's your responsibility almost to like fight

668
00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:55,880
Speaker 1: as hard as you can. And that goes back also

669
00:35:55,960 --> 00:36:01,160
Speaker 1: to the threes birth life, death, So death is a

670
00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:04,400
Speaker 1: is a really big theme in here, and there's a

671
00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:10,440
Speaker 1: lot of imagery around death, like bones and the skulls

672
00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:11,120
Speaker 1: and things.

673
00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:15,120
Speaker 2: Like as yeah, and I think too like with that,

674
00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:18,520
Speaker 2: it's kind of that resurgence that the most powerful, which

675
00:36:18,600 --> 00:36:20,759
Speaker 2: would be in the front and the welves will be

676
00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:22,880
Speaker 2: the back, or sometimes the welves will not be present

677
00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:24,399
Speaker 2: that like we need to save them. There's so many.

678
00:36:24,440 --> 00:36:27,759
Speaker 2: And then when they are trying to like excommunicate two

679
00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:30,880
Speaker 2: of the welbs, they're like we're all leaving and they're like, well,

680
00:36:30,920 --> 00:36:33,279
Speaker 2: there's too few of us. We need these, we need

681
00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:35,000
Speaker 2: these young ones, so we can't do that, so we'll

682
00:36:35,000 --> 00:36:37,839
Speaker 2: figure it out essentially like they came again that you're

683
00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:40,759
Speaker 2: not a part because they knew there were too few

684
00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:46,480
Speaker 2: in number and need to grow with each other. So

685
00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:49,480
Speaker 2: that is a very quick rundown of a really great

686
00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:51,960
Speaker 2: long book that's a part of a trilogy which we're

687
00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:56,279
Speaker 2: really excited for. And yes, I know you're probably a

688
00:36:56,320 --> 00:36:58,480
Speaker 2: little bit like, but what happens? You need to go

689
00:36:58,520 --> 00:36:59,120
Speaker 2: read the book.

690
00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:06,799
Speaker 1: K y'all, go get the book. It's great and let

691
00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:11,040
Speaker 1: us know your thoughts about it. Hopefully we'll have Margaret

692
00:37:11,080 --> 00:37:14,840
Speaker 1: on to talk about the next one. I'm very excited

693
00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:19,360
Speaker 1: to read it. Yes, Well, in the meantime, listeners, you

694
00:37:19,400 --> 00:37:22,280
Speaker 1: can email us at Hello at Stuffwenever Told You dot com.

695
00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:24,000
Speaker 1: You can find us on blue Sky at mom Stuff

696
00:37:24,000 --> 00:37:26,520
Speaker 1: podcast or on Instagram and TikTok at stuff I Never

697
00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:28,560
Speaker 1: Told You. We're us on YouTube and we have a

698
00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:30,919
Speaker 1: book you can get wherever you get your books. Thanks

699
00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:33,640
Speaker 1: as always to our super producer Christina, executive producer My

700
00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:36,160
Speaker 1: and your contributor Joey. Thank you and thanks to you

701
00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:38,560
Speaker 1: for listening Stuff Never Told You. Instructure by heart Radio.

702
00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:40,239
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from my heart Radio, you can check

703
00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:42,399
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704
00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:43,680
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