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Speaker 1: Welcome to Securing America with me, Frank Afney. The program

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Speaker 1: that's a kind of owner's manual for protecting the country

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Speaker 1: we love against all enemies, foreign and domestic, to the

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Speaker 1: glory of God and his Kingdom. I couldn't be more

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Speaker 1: pleased to say that we have with us a man

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Speaker 1: who has devoted his entire professional life to protecting the

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Speaker 1: country we love against all enemies, foreign and domestic. He's

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Speaker 1: done it as a marine combat veteran with time in

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Speaker 1: a desert storm. He has done it as a man

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Speaker 1: who served in the FBI and a number of capacities,

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Speaker 1: including as a counter terrorism special agent. These days, he

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Speaker 1: is running a very important private sector initiative aimed at

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Speaker 1: the same purpose, trying to protect particularly the people and

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Speaker 1: the state of Texas where he now resides, against enemies well,

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Speaker 1: both foreign and domestic. His name is John Guandolo. You

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Speaker 1: can find out more about all that he's doing at

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Speaker 1: John guandolo dot com and also by staying toune because

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Speaker 1: we're going to talk a bit about what he's up

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Speaker 1: to and why it's so important. John.

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Speaker 2: Welcome back.

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Speaker 1: It's good to have you with us here at Securing

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Speaker 1: America again.

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Speaker 3: Thanks great to be back on with you, Frank.

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Speaker 2: Thank you.

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Speaker 1: So you and I have been talking about and working

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Speaker 1: together for a long time, and of late particularly are

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Speaker 1: focused on what is going on in the state of Texas.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot of you know, thrashing around about redistricting

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Speaker 1: and special sessions and Democrats abandoning the state.

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Speaker 2: And all the rest of it.

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Speaker 1: But we want to talk about another front and what

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Speaker 1: has been happening on the ground in Texas with respect

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Speaker 1: to well what some call the Islamicization of that state,

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Speaker 1: certainly the intensifying pressure from what I think of as

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Speaker 1: Sharia supremacists who are taking up residents there. Talk us

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Speaker 1: through what's happening as you see it, sir.

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Speaker 3: So, I appreciate the opportunity to dive into this. So

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Speaker 3: in Texas, the issue as we've been talking about, that

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Speaker 3: I think is the center point that woke people up,

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Speaker 3: is this issue about a four hundred and two acre

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Speaker 3: facility community that's being planned and they want to build

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Speaker 3: just in the North DFW area outside of Plano, about

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Speaker 3: twenty miles east in a place called Josephine. And what

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Speaker 3: this is is an all Muslim charadherent community, which is

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Speaker 3: it's a fraction if you will, of their caliphate. But

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Speaker 3: the key here is, and this is what I really

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Speaker 3: if there's one thing people take away of is this

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Speaker 3: is getting attention as well it should because it's one

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Speaker 3: of the largest in the country. But the key is

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Speaker 3: this is going on all over the country, these communities

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Speaker 3: that are being planned and built. So that's the first

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Speaker 3: thing is that these communities.

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Speaker 1: Could you just pose for a moment on that, John,

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Speaker 1: because I think what you you've described very succinctly, it

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Speaker 1: sounds like what would in due course, if not fairly

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Speaker 1: short order.

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Speaker 2: Be.

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Speaker 1: What we've seen springing up in Europe extensively, namely what

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Speaker 1: are called no go zones. Is that what's in prospect?

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Speaker 3: Do you think, well, this is actually much worse. You know,

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Speaker 3: in Europe the no go zones can be areas where

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Speaker 3: the Muslims control. I mean, we had fifteen years ago

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Speaker 3: or so where we had legislators from Tennessee and other

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Speaker 3: states that were taken to Europe to be shown how

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Speaker 3: bad the Muslim incursion was. And there were neighborhoods where

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Speaker 3: they were told you can't come in here. You know,

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Speaker 3: this is Morocco. They're like, no, we're in England pretty sure.

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Speaker 3: But this is worse than that because this is then

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Speaker 3: a formal Muslim community where yes, it would be a

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Speaker 3: no go zone because it would be a completely Muslim

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Speaker 3: only area. But this is getting the approval across the

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Speaker 3: country of local and county and city councils who see

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Speaker 3: nothing wrong with this, and so that's what makes it

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Speaker 3: more dangerous is the non Muslim community is giving its

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Speaker 3: approval in many cases to these communities thinking it's no

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Speaker 3: big deal, and it's a huge.

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Speaker 1: Including this so called epic city East Plano Islamic Center Center. So, John,

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Speaker 1: how far advanced is this.

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Speaker 2: At the moment?

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Speaker 1: I understand that there's growing controversy about this Plano facility,

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Speaker 1: and as you say, there are others in the state

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Speaker 1: and elsewhere, but just took us through. Is this a

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Speaker 1: done deal? Are they getting the permits that they need?

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Speaker 1: Is this being investigated or resisted in any way?

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Speaker 3: So? Well, first, it is being resisted by some in

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Speaker 3: the community, and there are some There is good news

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Speaker 3: coming out in that local and city councils, county councils, whatever,

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Speaker 3: are resisting it. In some areas Plano not as much,

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Speaker 3: but in Josephine where the actual community is going to

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Speaker 3: be billed as a more Christian conservative area where they're

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Speaker 3: not tolerating this, and they shouldn't. This is an unconstitutional

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Speaker 3: I mean to be clear, this is an unconstitutional construct.

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Speaker 3: It's a part of establishing the Islamic caliphate. And so

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Speaker 3: there is some good news there. But across the country,

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Speaker 3: what is not being dealt with and still hasn't been

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Speaker 3: dealt with as of this moment, is there is a

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Speaker 3: massive Islamic movement. There's a jihadi support network in the

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Speaker 3: United States. This is one aspect of it. And this

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Speaker 3: support network is made up of the most prominent Islamic

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Speaker 3: organizations in the United States, which we know, as a

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Speaker 3: matter of fact and evidence, are part of an organized

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Speaker 3: effort to wage war against the United States. And until local, state,

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Speaker 3: and federal authorities recognize this, the burden will remain on

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Speaker 3: the people to do something about it.

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Speaker 1: And when you say wage war, you're talking about I

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Speaker 1: guess jihad, the holy war. Are you talking about the

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Speaker 1: violent physical kind, John, or a more stealthy and well,

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Speaker 1: I think of it as pre violent sort.

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Speaker 3: So both, and this is the problem. Until now, the

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Speaker 3: violence has been sporadic and organized in most cases, but

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Speaker 3: still sporadic. But you have just in two months, well

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Speaker 3: less than a month and maybe five weeks ago, the

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Speaker 3: leader of al Qaida in the Arabian Peninsula calling for

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Speaker 3: all out war in the United States and Europe and

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Speaker 3: targeting key leaders. You've got the major organizations at the

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Speaker 3: international level saying jihad without saying it as of now,

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Speaker 3: but calling people to a new level of fighting the

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Speaker 3: non Muslim community. So while it has been to date

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Speaker 3: primarily the non violent jihad, because jahad is total warfare

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Speaker 3: that includes all of these parts of warfare, pushing and

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Speaker 3: publicly acknowledging and publicly calling for violent jihad. And so

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Speaker 3: we have to understand in the past, when they have

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Speaker 3: done this, we have seen violence then roll out, specifically

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Speaker 3: when we saw in the fall of twenty ten the

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Speaker 3: call for violent jahad, specifically targeting Islamic rulers who are

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Speaker 3: not ruling according to Sharia. And then of course in

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Speaker 3: January twenty eleven we saw the Muslim Brotherhood's revolution in

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Speaker 3: the Middle East. Primarily now they're calling for this large

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Speaker 3: scale violence in Europe and in the United States.

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Speaker 1: And I old the thought, John, we have to come

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Speaker 1: back on that very point the calls for jihad here

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Speaker 1: be right back with John Gondola State too. We're back

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Speaker 1: and we're continuing a tremendously important conversation with John Guandolo,

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Speaker 1: a former FBI special agent now involved in training law enforcement,

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Speaker 1: intelligence and ordinary citizens about the threat that we are

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Speaker 1: facing of holy war and then help from its friends,

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Speaker 1: those Jihadis and their communist allies. But John, just to

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Speaker 1: tie this off, you're saying that when people are referring

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Speaker 1: to fighting in some of these comments, it is not

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Speaker 1: so subliminal a message to their adherents, their followers, their congregants,

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Speaker 1: whatever you want to call them, that this is the

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Speaker 1: violent kind of holy war, even if at the moment

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Speaker 1: it is in a somewhat pre kinetic phase.

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Speaker 2: Is that right?

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Speaker 3: That's exactly right. And I cannot overemphasize this. I mean,

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Speaker 3: they have thousands of soldiers here, and I certainly would

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Speaker 3: put between the communists and the Jihadis here in the

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Speaker 3: United States. You know, half a million soldiers here in

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Speaker 3: the United States. You've got declared, their intentions are declared,

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Speaker 3: their doctrine and their strategies are published, and they're working

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Speaker 3: together seamlessly at the local level in the United States.

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Speaker 3: But at the national and international levels, these hostile nation

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Speaker 3: states are working together and have these networks, these proxies,

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Speaker 3: if you will, for the communist and Islamic movements that

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Speaker 3: are absolutely focused on going very violent. And I want

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Speaker 3: to say this because I believe this is very important

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Speaker 3: in how this is addressed, is that when we see

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Speaker 3: things like coming up at the end of August in Dallas, Texas,

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Speaker 3: one of the largest Chinese communist front groups, the Freedom

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Speaker 3: Road socialist organization that broke off from Liberation Road. These

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Speaker 3: are the largest Chinese communist groups. These are the groups

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Speaker 3: that spawned the communist groups, Black Lives Matter and others,

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Speaker 3: and they're holding a rally, a pro communist Chinese rally

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Speaker 3: on August thirtieth in Dallas, Texas. And people that do

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Speaker 3: not understand what you and I are talking about see

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Speaker 3: this as well. Like you know, everyone has a right

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Speaker 3: free speech. But when you put these operations, these actions

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Speaker 3: in the context of the war they're waging against the

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Speaker 3: United States, it's not merely a and it isn't a

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Speaker 3: free speech event, and it's not a First Amendment issue.

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Speaker 3: It's not a right to speak and assemble freely. It

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Speaker 3: is part of a long line of actions being taken

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Speaker 3: to undermine the community and propagandize and show their dominance

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Speaker 3: in the community. And as you know, Texas is a

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Speaker 3: target for the Islamic movement and the Communist movement because

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Speaker 3: they believe if they can take Texas, their movement, the

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Speaker 3: Islamic movement, the Communist movement in the United States will

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Speaker 3: be pretty much over because they believe it will demoralize

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Speaker 3: and have a practical effect as well.

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Speaker 1: Well, it's hard to overstate just how strategically significant it

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Speaker 1: would be. Two questions to you, John, One is do

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Speaker 1: you anticipate that a feature of this August thirtieth event

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Speaker 1: in Dallas will be the Muslim brotherhoods and other jihadi

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Speaker 1: networks associations with the communists point one? In point two,

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Speaker 1: the last time I checked, there were a lot of

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Speaker 1: patriotic Americans, well armed patriotic Americans, no less in Texas.

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Speaker 1: How does this thing play out as you see it?

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Speaker 1: Does this evolve into open clashes and civil war?

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Speaker 3: Well's a good question. So the first question is, you know,

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Speaker 3: when we look at you know, I just went through.

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Speaker 3: If you go through just what they put out publicly,

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Speaker 3: you know, Freedom Road Socialist organization on its website says

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Speaker 3: we are intent on creating a Marxist Leninist government in

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Speaker 3: the United States. So it's not they don't have a

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Speaker 3: hidden agenda. This is a big part of the communist movement.

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Speaker 3: But if you look through what they put out publicly,

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Speaker 3: they openly are aligning themselves with the Jihadi movement, with Hamas,

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Speaker 3: with the Islamic movement overall in the United States and beyond.

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Speaker 3: So yes to your first question, I would expect there

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Speaker 3: to be representatives of Hamas, the Muslim Brotherhood, and others

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Speaker 3: at the event. Now what do I expect to come

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Speaker 3: of it. I expect them to do whatever they want

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Speaker 3: and for the police to protect them, which we continue

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Speaker 3: to see in Europe. In the United States, police protecting

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Speaker 3: the communists and Islamic movements because their leadership tells them, hey,

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Speaker 3: this is just your standard old freedom of speech thing.

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Speaker 3: And this is the problem. When you look at this

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Speaker 3: as just a public event and not as a line

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Speaker 3: of operation in a war against the United States, then

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Speaker 3: from the legal side, it's treated as nothing and the

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Speaker 3: police are actually become tools of the communist and Islamic

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Speaker 3: movements by protecting them. If which is why I think

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Speaker 3: the training we do for law enforcement is so critical,

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Speaker 3: because we help them discern between these things.

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Speaker 1: I want to come back to that in just a second,

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Speaker 1: but I do want to say that what's so alarming

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Speaker 1: about this is, as you've documented fairly well of many

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Speaker 1: many years, we're not projecting. We're not, you know, sort

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Speaker 1: of speculating. We're talking about the playbook that we have

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Speaker 1: seen operating, most notably in Europe, are we not? And

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Speaker 1: you sort of touched on this a moment ago in

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Speaker 1: terms of protecting the Jihades in Britain and so on.

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Speaker 1: But that playbook winds up with submission, does it not.

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Speaker 3: That's right, You've got If we use what's going on

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Speaker 3: in Europe as an example, I would argue a lot

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Speaker 3: of that is already going on in the United States.

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Speaker 3: The Muslim Brotherhood's doctrine for North America, their strategy for

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Speaker 3: North America, says, we get their leaders, the non Muslim leaders,

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Speaker 3: to do our bidding for us, and so they get

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Speaker 3: the police to arrest and go after the patriots that

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Speaker 3: are calling these things out. When Hamas doing business as

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Speaker 3: Care hosts Muslim Day at the State Capitol in Texas,

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Speaker 3: and Austin and citizens step up and say this is bs.

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Speaker 3: It's the citizens that get pulled out of there by

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Speaker 3: the police, not the terrorists.

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Speaker 1: John, I always, at this point in the conversations with

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Speaker 1: you pull up the explanatory memorandum which, as I recall,

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Speaker 1: your squad in the FBI found in an unbelievable bit

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Speaker 1: of luck in the cash the archives of the Muslim

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Speaker 1: Brotherhood during a raid in Annandale, Virginia. While back Yes,

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Speaker 1: it's the Muslim Brotherhood Playbook We Believe in which it

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Speaker 1: talks specifically about this idea of a civilization jihad in

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Speaker 1: which our miserable house is sabotaged from within by our

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Speaker 1: hands as well as those are the believers, so that

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Speaker 1: Allah's religion has made victorious over all others.

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Speaker 2: Folks.

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Speaker 1: Again, it's it's being broadcast their plans in full sight. John, quickly,

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Speaker 1: talk about your training programs. How do people find out

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Speaker 1: about them, take part in them, and otherwise benefit from

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Speaker 1: your insights here?

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Speaker 3: Yes, so a few of the key programs. The most

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Speaker 3: important one is, I believe, is the Into Action program,

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Speaker 3: which trains citizens how to identify and lawfully flesh out

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Speaker 3: elements of these movements the Islamic movement, the communist movement

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Speaker 3: in their county and their local community. And so that

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Speaker 3: is what we spend the vast majority of our time doing.

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Speaker 3: We also do law enforcement program understanding and investigating hostile networks,

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Speaker 3: where we look at these networks and how they operate,

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Speaker 3: and how law enforcement can use in various investigative strategies,

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Speaker 3: and how understanding what we're talking about changes how tactical

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Speaker 3: units engage.

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Speaker 1: Well, I to cut you off, we have to leave

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Speaker 1: it at that.

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Speaker 2: Thank you. John.

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Speaker 1: Glendola dot com is where you can find out more

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Speaker 1: about all of that. Keep up the great work, my friend.

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Speaker 1: Come back to Sorka updates. We'll be right back, folks.

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Speaker 1: We're back, and so is Charles sam Fattis, Praise the Lord,

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Speaker 1: one of our most faithful, regular and hugely impressive contributors

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Speaker 1: to this program. Sam is a former intelligence clandestine service

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Speaker 1: officer who has, in the years since he came in

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Speaker 1: from the cold, as they say, become I think, a

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Speaker 1: profoundly important contributor to our understanding of so many topics,

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Speaker 1: not least through his extremely impressive platform and my magazine

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Speaker 1: at substack dot com. Sam is, among other things, an author,

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Speaker 1: of fiction and nonfiction. He has been an assistant Attorney

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Speaker 1: General in Washington State. He has been combat well, the

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Speaker 1: army officer. I'm not sure whether it was combat, but

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Speaker 1: he certainly was in combat behind enemy lines in the CIA,

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Speaker 1: and we're very appreciative of his accumulative service, including that

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Speaker 1: that he is rendering these days. Sam, thank you so

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Speaker 1: much for joining us once again. It's great to have

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Speaker 1: you back.

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Speaker 4: Pleasure to be here. As you see, I'm still in

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Speaker 4: my summer Whites. Captain James Fanel called me and told

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Speaker 4: me I was out of uniform a few weeks ago.

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Speaker 4: So I'm squared away now.

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Speaker 1: You're definitely squared away, Sam. Something that's not so squared

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Speaker 1: away is a woman by the name of Abigail Spamberger,

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Speaker 1: a member of Congress who is currently I believe the

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Speaker 1: Democratic nominee to become the next governor of the Commonwealth

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Speaker 1: of Virginia, which I resided this is a very unsettling

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Speaker 1: thing for reasons that I hope you will well share

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Speaker 1: it with us in the course of this block, including

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Speaker 1: some of the support that she's getting from some dubious

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Speaker 1: customers as well.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 4: So, Abigail apparently was an operations officer, a case officer

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Speaker 4: in the Central Intelligence Agency. Not for a particularly long

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Speaker 4: period of time, but for a number of years. I'll

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Speaker 4: take her word for that. I haven't. In other words,

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Speaker 4: she allegedly served down range for some period of time.

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Speaker 4: She is now, as you say, the Democratic nominee for

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Speaker 4: governor of the state of Virginia and supports every predictable

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Speaker 4: left wing cause. So most recently, just within the last

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Speaker 4: couple of days, it has surfaced. I mean, there are

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Speaker 4: all sorts of issue with her, but most recently in

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Speaker 4: the last couple of days as surface.

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Speaker 2: But she took fifty.

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Speaker 4: Thousand dollars from a guy I think his name is

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Speaker 4: pin Nie, who is a Chinese citizen. So to begin with,

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Speaker 4: he's not allowed to donate to political candidates in this

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Speaker 4: country because he's a foreign national, and she's not allowed

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Speaker 4: to take the money. But she took two separate donations,

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Speaker 4: I believe, April and May of this year, twenty five

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Speaker 4: thousand dollars a pop from this fellow, who is a

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Speaker 4: distinguished member of the Chinese Communist Party.

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Speaker 2: Has been recognized.

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Speaker 4: He got some award something like a Great Citizen of

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Speaker 4: the of Communist China, something like that like twelve times.

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Speaker 4: He's the head of some big Chinese corporation.

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Speaker 2: The guy.

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Speaker 4: What he pushes is green technology that's completely dependent upon,

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Speaker 4: you know, technology and components made in China, to the

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Speaker 4: detriment of the American fossil fuel industry. Predictably enough, so

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Speaker 4: his whole.

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Speaker 1: And American taxpayer subsidies.

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Speaker 4: He takes American taxpayer money to put Americans out of

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Speaker 4: work and make us more dependent.

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Speaker 2: On the CCP.

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Speaker 4: And if that all weren't bad enough, he turns out

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Speaker 4: to be a buddy of Hunter Biden's and has had

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Speaker 4: business dealings with Hunter on a number of fronts.

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Speaker 1: And then, of course, so have a number of other

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Speaker 1: Chinese nationals.

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Speaker 4: As I recall all sorts of other Chinese nationals inclining

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Speaker 4: a whole bunch of Chinese spies. So when when Hunter

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Speaker 4: wasn't talking directly to Chinese intelligence, he was hanging out

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Speaker 4: with this guy.

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Speaker 1: And of course, which may have been the same thing,

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Speaker 1: don't you think.

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Speaker 2: Could it?

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Speaker 4: I mean, this guy is of course as well, you

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Speaker 4: could write this script from memory by this point. The guy,

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Speaker 4: this guy is associated with every other United Front entity

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Speaker 4: that you could operates inside the United States. So he

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Speaker 4: is part of this worldwide program.

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Speaker 2: And then, of course, and.

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Speaker 1: Just so clear that is an influence operation.

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Speaker 4: That's the whole point, is that the whole point is

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Speaker 4: to buy foreigners and push the CCP's agenda and co

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Speaker 4: opt foreigners. And so this guy, of course is in

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Speaker 4: bed with Hunter Biden. I don't know, I'm speaking figuratively.

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Speaker 4: I don't want to know if it was literally. And

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Speaker 4: then of course he ended up speaking to then Vice

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Speaker 4: President Joe Biden in a meeting arranged by Hunter back

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Speaker 4: I think in twenty fourteen, and afterward is documented on

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Speaker 4: the infamous laptop as reaching out the Hunter who had

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Speaker 4: bought some sort of electric sports car from one of

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Speaker 4: his companies, and the Hunter was having trouble, and this

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Speaker 4: guy was falling all over himself to say, let me

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Speaker 4: get your sports car fixed, my brother and all this

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Speaker 4: kind of nonsense.

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Speaker 1: So this guy's got a web of ties here. But

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Speaker 1: just back to Spenberger, Sam, the last time I checked,

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Speaker 1: quite aside from the fact that it's illegal to take

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Speaker 1: money from Chinese nationals, I thought people were sort of

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Speaker 1: capped out it, you know, twenty five hundred dollars or

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Speaker 1: something like that per person, maybe five thousand dollars as

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Speaker 1: a couple, How does she take fifty thousand dollars from

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Speaker 1: this Chinese I.

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Speaker 4: Had exactly the same question, which is, I know that

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Speaker 4: there is a very strict limit on federal donations, much

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Speaker 4: lower than any So whether it's what Virginia's specific laws

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Speaker 4: on that are, I don't know. But in any event,

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Speaker 4: her campaign, the guy had to know, the CCP guy

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Speaker 4: had to know that this was illegal, and her campaign

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Speaker 4: certainly had to know it was illegal, and the whole

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Speaker 4: thing reeks and good lord. The woman's says she was

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Speaker 4: a Central Intelligence Agency officer, which is apparently true, and

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Speaker 4: claims to have been a case officer, an operator, somebody

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Speaker 4: who should be steeped in counterintelligence trade craft. And yet

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Speaker 4: she's taking very large.

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Speaker 2: Quantities of money from, you know.

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Speaker 4: From a guy tied directly to the government of our

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Speaker 4: most mortal enemy on the face of the.

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Speaker 1: Planet, and not just once, which one could attribute to

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Speaker 1: an oversighter of mistake, but twice twice.

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Speaker 4: And even if there's an oversight of mistake, I mean,

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Speaker 4: let's see, it's August now, so the first check came

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Speaker 4: in April, so we've got what four months for somebody

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Speaker 4: in her campaign to figure out. I don't know how

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Speaker 4: this happened, but we're giving the money back and returning

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Speaker 4: the donation, which happens in political campaigns. I mean, presumably

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Speaker 4: she will now do that because she's been caught.

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Speaker 1: But that hasn't happened as not.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, as of so far, she's ignoring the whole issues.

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Speaker 1: Well, so, Sam, as a guy who is a distinguished

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Speaker 1: veteran of the intelligence, clandestine services and steeped in counterintelligence,

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Speaker 1: how Siah's a problem? Do you think this represents for

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Speaker 1: her candidacy?

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Speaker 4: I think well, it should be a fatal wound. I

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Speaker 4: mean she should withdraw as the only decent thing she

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Speaker 4: should do. Whether she will do that or not, we

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Speaker 4: will see. I mean this is disqualifying and her entire

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Speaker 4: connection to pushing Chinese technologies and so forth. I mean

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Speaker 4: it's like, you know, come on, we just had an

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Speaker 4: election where the American people stated pretty definitively they were

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Speaker 4: fed up with this and they wanted to take back

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Speaker 4: control of their government. And here's another CCP Lackey running

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Speaker 4: for aud.

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Speaker 1: Let's talk about Steady State, which is a group I'd

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Speaker 1: never heard of when he started writing it up. They've

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Speaker 1: endorsed Abigail Spenberger. I gather, who are these characters and

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Speaker 1: what should we know about what they're up to?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, well, I find Steady State to be extremely troubling,

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Speaker 4: and most people have not heard of them until relatively recently.

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Speaker 2: What do they say publicly?

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Speaker 4: They are an organization of somewhere over three hundred They

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Speaker 4: describe themselves as former national security professionals or officials. From

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Speaker 4: the names that are public, most of them seem to

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Speaker 4: be former intelligence community types. And they're run by a guy.

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Speaker 4: Their leader, president whatever he calls himself, is a guy

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Speaker 4: named Steve Cash, who is a Democratic Party operative, used

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Speaker 4: to work for Dianne Feinstein, spent some time in the CIA.

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Speaker 4: But you know how many and they're agenda basically boils

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Speaker 4: down to Donald Trump. The Mega Movement represent a mortal

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Speaker 4: threat to the Constitution and the Republic. And if you

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Speaker 4: read what they say very carefully, it amounts to a

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Speaker 4: justification for why people in the intelligence community should fight

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Speaker 4: the President of the United States resist his agenda.

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Speaker 2: I mean, you know, in my opinion, it.

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Speaker 4: Is a justification for treason. In other words, they are

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Speaker 4: now the Praetorian Guard. They get to decide when you

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Speaker 4: get deposed, who's allowed to sit on the throne, and

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Speaker 4: so forth.

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Speaker 1: So a Sam, when you are talking about this it

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Speaker 1: it isn't a call to people to resign and protest

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Speaker 1: what the president is talking about. It's an op call

440
00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:05,880
Speaker 1: for subversive You say, treason is activities. And we're going

441
00:31:05,920 --> 00:31:07,280
Speaker 1: to take a short break here in a moment, and

442
00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:10,400
Speaker 1: we're going to come back and talk about other kinds

443
00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:14,160
Speaker 1: of reason of this activities that some in the intelligence

444
00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:18,200
Speaker 1: community have been engaged in in fairness among others. But

445
00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:22,040
Speaker 1: I do want to just to make sure I'm clear

446
00:31:22,080 --> 00:31:28,320
Speaker 1: about this. A group of purported national security professionals, including

447
00:31:28,360 --> 00:31:35,200
Speaker 1: people with intelligence backgrounds, are propounding the idea that this

448
00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:38,720
Speaker 1: kind of well fifth column, I guess one might call

449
00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:44,680
Speaker 1: it inside the government, inside the intelligence agencies specifically, can

450
00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:49,760
Speaker 1: and should be encouraged to subvert a sitting president of

451
00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:53,120
Speaker 1: the United States. That would seem to be a criminal

452
00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:55,200
Speaker 1: activity to me. But we're going to get your take

453
00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:57,040
Speaker 1: on it on the other side of this break. Stay

454
00:31:57,120 --> 00:32:01,760
Speaker 1: tuned for much more with Charles sam Faddest be right back.

455
00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:25,400
Speaker 1: We're back, and so is Sam Fattis. We can't be

456
00:32:27,320 --> 00:32:31,200
Speaker 1: more excited about hearing what he has to say on

457
00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:38,960
Speaker 1: the subject of treachery inside our intelligence communities, apparently being

458
00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:43,800
Speaker 1: phone matted by a group called Steady State that recently

459
00:32:44,200 --> 00:32:50,760
Speaker 1: endorsed the candidacy of Abigail Spanberger, another former intelligence individual,

460
00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:55,520
Speaker 1: to become the next governor of the state of Virginia.

461
00:32:56,040 --> 00:32:59,640
Speaker 1: And Sam, you've made the case that she's got a

462
00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:05,360
Speaker 1: problem them with this Chinese national spending big money, presumably

463
00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:10,560
Speaker 1: unconnected from his influence operations with the United Front. But

464
00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:14,400
Speaker 1: talk about these well, I guess one might call them

465
00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:24,080
Speaker 1: enemies within. Do you regard what they're doing as treacherous

466
00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:29,880
Speaker 1: if not flat out treason us And has this become

467
00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:33,080
Speaker 1: a thing inside the inteligence community at this point?

468
00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:36,880
Speaker 4: Would you say, well, I do regard it as treasonous

469
00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:43,760
Speaker 4: and up front, let me add I said initially, these

470
00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:48,720
Speaker 4: guys admit to or say publicly, we are three hundred plus.

471
00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:54,120
Speaker 4: They don't name an exact number, and they they those

472
00:33:54,120 --> 00:34:00,320
Speaker 4: are the former intelligence community national security officials. What is

473
00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:06,560
Speaker 4: not addressed in their statements, which is okay, But to

474
00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:11,200
Speaker 4: what extent are you also an organization that exists within

475
00:34:12,239 --> 00:34:17,799
Speaker 4: the federal government amongst active serving officials. Now, they're obviously

476
00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:22,120
Speaker 4: not going to publicly address that issue, because this goes

477
00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:26,040
Speaker 4: directly now into the realm of criminal activity. But that

478
00:34:26,080 --> 00:34:28,680
Speaker 4: does not mean that that is not true. In other words,

479
00:34:28,680 --> 00:34:32,800
Speaker 4: the idea that there's some sort of fixed barrier between

480
00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:37,680
Speaker 4: these two worlds, I think is well, that's just erroneous.

481
00:34:37,719 --> 00:34:40,839
Speaker 4: That okay, So these guys are not just sitting off

482
00:34:40,880 --> 00:34:42,520
Speaker 4: in their living rooms opining.

483
00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:43,480
Speaker 2: This is something.

484
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:46,920
Speaker 4: They are talking about action that needs to be taken

485
00:34:47,000 --> 00:34:51,439
Speaker 4: by serving officers, and philosophically, if you read what they

486
00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:56,320
Speaker 4: say honestly, it reads like every justification every junta of

487
00:34:56,400 --> 00:35:00,600
Speaker 4: colonels ever gave in Latin America for staging a coup.

488
00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:06,080
Speaker 4: They are not just intelligence professionals. They are the guardians

489
00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:10,120
Speaker 4: of the constitution, if you will, and when and if

490
00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:13,720
Speaker 4: they decide that a president and in fact they refer

491
00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:20,880
Speaker 4: to Trump directly, is, in their opinion, acting contrary to

492
00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:25,839
Speaker 4: the Constitution, whatever the heck of their interpretation is. Then no,

493
00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:30,320
Speaker 4: they're not talking about resigning. They're not talking about running

494
00:35:30,360 --> 00:35:33,280
Speaker 4: for leaving and running for office or writing a strongly

495
00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:36,600
Speaker 4: world letter. They are talking about how it is their

496
00:35:37,440 --> 00:35:43,600
Speaker 4: moral imperative to take whatever action is necessary. So this

497
00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:46,719
Speaker 4: is literally, when you read their stuff in my opinion,

498
00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:49,480
Speaker 4: you know, not as just as an old CIA guy,

499
00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:55,800
Speaker 4: but as an attorney. You're reading the legal justification, legal

500
00:35:55,840 --> 00:36:02,240
Speaker 4: in quotes for why taking trees in this unconstitutional action

501
00:36:03,120 --> 00:36:07,560
Speaker 4: is somehow now in this inside out word world constitutional

502
00:36:07,760 --> 00:36:12,279
Speaker 4: and required. So yeah, it's incredibly dangerous. I mean, this

503
00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:18,680
Speaker 4: is pushing the idea that they can depose someone, obstruct someone,

504
00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:22,040
Speaker 4: act completely contrary to the legal orders of the President

505
00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:25,840
Speaker 4: of the United States and be justified in doing so.

506
00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:28,160
Speaker 2: So huge weally dangerous.

507
00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:31,279
Speaker 1: I would think it's a problem for Ebigagel Spenberger that

508
00:36:31,320 --> 00:36:34,640
Speaker 1: she's getting that endorsement from such individuals.

509
00:36:34,920 --> 00:36:35,040
Speaker 2: Yes.

510
00:36:35,120 --> 00:36:37,799
Speaker 1: But Sam, unfortunately, as you know very well, and you've

511
00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:43,880
Speaker 1: been speaking out about this very powerfully, these are not

512
00:36:43,960 --> 00:36:45,480
Speaker 1: people just off on a toot.

513
00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:46,640
Speaker 2: Nope.

514
00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:51,160
Speaker 1: These are folks who are now well I suspect, in

515
00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:57,400
Speaker 1: some cases at least were involved in previous acts that

516
00:36:57,440 --> 00:37:01,880
Speaker 1: have now been described by the Director of National Intelligence

517
00:37:02,120 --> 00:37:11,320
Speaker 1: as a treasonous conspiracy to mount a coup against initially

518
00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:16,800
Speaker 1: the President elect Donald J. Trump after the November election

519
00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:22,319
Speaker 1: in twenty sixteen, and subsequently during his presidency. To what

520
00:37:22,440 --> 00:37:26,440
Speaker 1: extent would you anticipate that people would be saying, well, listen,

521
00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:33,720
Speaker 1: John Brennan and James Clapper and James Camy, and well,

522
00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:40,240
Speaker 1: according to Tulsa Gabbert, but Rock Obama himself were engaged

523
00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:43,160
Speaker 1: in precisely the kinds of things we're calling for here.

524
00:37:46,160 --> 00:37:50,880
Speaker 1: Does that provide a cover? I guess you'd say in

525
00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:54,120
Speaker 1: the intelligence business.

526
00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:56,000
Speaker 4: Well, sure, I mean I think you've put your finger

527
00:37:56,040 --> 00:38:01,320
Speaker 4: on something very very important. We're now, what nine years

528
00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:06,520
Speaker 4: into activity by individuals where I mean nine years ago

529
00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:09,720
Speaker 4: at a minimum, some very powerful people in this country

530
00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:15,239
Speaker 4: decided we don't really like this whole constitutional republic concept.

531
00:38:15,520 --> 00:38:18,360
Speaker 4: With this messy the people get to decide who's the

532
00:38:18,360 --> 00:38:21,480
Speaker 4: president of the United States. We're putting our hands on

533
00:38:21,560 --> 00:38:26,760
Speaker 4: the controls. We are going to decide who is allowed

534
00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:31,319
Speaker 4: to rule this country. And then a stage essentially an

535
00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:34,399
Speaker 4: ongoing coup. Over the course of nine years, they tried

536
00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:36,560
Speaker 4: to manipulate the system to keep Trump out of the

537
00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:39,200
Speaker 4: White House. In twenty sixteen, they tried to depose him.

538
00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:45,200
Speaker 4: They successfully prevented him from being re elected in twenty twenty.

539
00:38:46,000 --> 00:38:49,720
Speaker 4: They've tried to put him in prison. They've they've burned

540
00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:54,080
Speaker 4: every rule to the ground. A long time ago. So

541
00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:56,960
Speaker 4: the idea that steady states finally come along. I mean,

542
00:38:57,160 --> 00:39:00,760
Speaker 4: what steady state is speaking out loud and pop arising,

543
00:39:00,920 --> 00:39:06,239
Speaker 4: if you will, the doctrine that these guys enunciated nine

544
00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:13,080
Speaker 4: years ago so incredibly incredibly dangerous. And anybody who thinks

545
00:39:13,080 --> 00:39:15,759
Speaker 4: that just because people like Brennan are out of the system,

546
00:39:16,120 --> 00:39:19,280
Speaker 4: that you don't still have people in very powerful positions

547
00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:22,520
Speaker 4: throughout this government who are following the same game plan

548
00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:23,480
Speaker 4: is not paying attention.

549
00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:25,800
Speaker 2: We will not cleanse the system.

550
00:39:26,080 --> 00:39:32,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, and as you know from first had experience, there's

551
00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:36,319
Speaker 1: a whole cohort of people who are promoted and mentored

552
00:39:36,480 --> 00:39:41,839
Speaker 1: and presumably retain loyalty to Brennan. Yes, and I think

553
00:39:41,840 --> 00:39:45,880
Speaker 1: this is what's been making so dangerous some of the

554
00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:48,400
Speaker 1: platforms that have been given to him to continue to

555
00:39:48,760 --> 00:39:50,920
Speaker 1: spouse all of this sort of thing in the media

556
00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:53,640
Speaker 1: at large. Sam, we have to take another break. We'll

557
00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:55,319
Speaker 1: be right back with more, and we're going to talk

558
00:39:55,360 --> 00:40:02,080
Speaker 1: about the prospects for prosecuting these treason is conspirators, alleged

559
00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:06,600
Speaker 1: treasonous conspirators. Stay tuned for that and more. Right after this,

560
00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:31,200
Speaker 1: we're back for a final installment of an extended conversation

561
00:40:31,280 --> 00:40:34,719
Speaker 1: I'm very pleased to say with our friend Sam fattis

562
00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:40,600
Speaker 1: men of great distinction, both for his public service over

563
00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:44,040
Speaker 1: many years in the uniform of the United States Army

564
00:40:44,120 --> 00:40:49,600
Speaker 1: and without a uniform in the Secret Service, if you will,

565
00:40:49,719 --> 00:40:55,000
Speaker 1: of the CIA. He continues that work in his role

566
00:40:55,080 --> 00:40:59,800
Speaker 1: as the proprietor of and magazine. You can find a

567
00:41:00,120 --> 00:41:06,680
Speaker 1: magazine dot Subsick dot com. Sam So Tulsi Gabbard has

568
00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:11,520
Speaker 1: made a criminal referral to the Justice Department. The Justice

569
00:41:11,560 --> 00:41:17,399
Speaker 1: Department has now evidently assigned and as yet, as far

570
00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:22,279
Speaker 1: as I know, unnamed federal prosecutor, some speculate, perhaps in

571
00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:26,640
Speaker 1: South Florida, to impanel a grand jury and begin presenting

572
00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:33,080
Speaker 1: the evidence that Tulsea Gabbert has compiled as the basis

573
00:41:33,120 --> 00:41:38,600
Speaker 1: for a prosecution of as yet unnamed individuals. I mean

574
00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:41,120
Speaker 1: in terms of any indictments and that sort of thing.

575
00:41:41,160 --> 00:41:44,120
Speaker 1: But there's a long litany of names of people who

576
00:41:44,120 --> 00:41:48,080
Speaker 1: were implicated and I guess are now the subject of

577
00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:52,840
Speaker 1: this referral. Talk us through as a not only trained

578
00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:57,600
Speaker 1: intelligence operative but also as an attorney, what the lay

579
00:41:57,600 --> 00:42:02,279
Speaker 1: of the land is here legally and where you think

580
00:42:02,320 --> 00:42:04,480
Speaker 1: this is likely to wind up in terms of actual

581
00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:11,160
Speaker 1: prosecutions if you care to go there, possible you know, convictions.

582
00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:15,319
Speaker 4: Right, Well, I think the first thing that folks need

583
00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:18,080
Speaker 4: to absorb, in line with what we were just talking about, is,

584
00:42:18,920 --> 00:42:22,200
Speaker 4: you know, you're not talking about negligence, you're not talking

585
00:42:22,200 --> 00:42:26,520
Speaker 4: about incompetence, you're not talking about sloppiness, You're not talking

586
00:42:26,560 --> 00:42:29,040
Speaker 4: about somebody should have looked.

587
00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:30,120
Speaker 2: More closely at the facts.

588
00:42:30,120 --> 00:42:33,960
Speaker 4: I mean this from Jump Street going back to when

589
00:42:34,040 --> 00:42:38,120
Speaker 4: Obama's still in office, is in my view, a criminal

590
00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:42,440
Speaker 4: conspiracy that then evolves over time. But its intent was

591
00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:46,200
Speaker 4: clear from the beginning to take a series of illegal

592
00:42:46,200 --> 00:42:49,760
Speaker 4: and unconstitutional actions, and as I said, it evolved from

593
00:42:50,239 --> 00:42:53,879
Speaker 4: trying to stop Trump from getting an office to deposing him, etc.

594
00:42:54,760 --> 00:43:00,879
Speaker 2: So we're not talking about misdemeanors or or minor offenses here.

595
00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:01,960
Speaker 2: We're talking about.

596
00:43:01,719 --> 00:43:06,640
Speaker 4: A series of We're talking about very serious felony charges

597
00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:13,719
Speaker 4: involving very very senior people and potentially Barack Obama himself.

598
00:43:14,040 --> 00:43:17,080
Speaker 4: And so this is not a minor thing. It shouldn't

599
00:43:17,080 --> 00:43:18,839
Speaker 4: be treated as one. In the fact that we're talking

600
00:43:18,840 --> 00:43:22,399
Speaker 4: about convening a federal grand jury, which means we're going

601
00:43:22,440 --> 00:43:25,360
Speaker 4: to we're looking to return indictments and charge people with

602
00:43:26,360 --> 00:43:29,319
Speaker 4: offenses that will put them in prison if convicted, is

603
00:43:29,360 --> 00:43:32,400
Speaker 4: to me encouraging. It is also encouraging to me that

604
00:43:32,440 --> 00:43:35,680
Speaker 4: they're looking very carefully at the venue, because wherever you

605
00:43:35,760 --> 00:43:37,879
Speaker 4: convene the grand jury, you're going to draw the grand

606
00:43:37,960 --> 00:43:40,200
Speaker 4: jury from the pool of people that live in that area.

607
00:43:40,960 --> 00:43:45,759
Speaker 4: Your chances of getting an indictments returned in Florida are

608
00:43:45,800 --> 00:43:47,359
Speaker 4: going to be a hell of a lot better than

609
00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:49,800
Speaker 4: they are going to be if you convene this grand

610
00:43:49,880 --> 00:43:51,280
Speaker 4: jury in Washington, DC.

611
00:43:51,920 --> 00:43:52,560
Speaker 2: And given the.

612
00:43:54,040 --> 00:43:57,080
Speaker 4: Scope of the activities and all the activities involved in

613
00:43:57,120 --> 00:44:00,520
Speaker 4: the fact that we're talking about a conspiracy, this thing

614
00:44:00,640 --> 00:44:03,920
Speaker 4: stretch stretches all across the United States by this point,

615
00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:09,040
Speaker 4: So there are completely legitimate reasons why you could look

616
00:44:09,280 --> 00:44:11,480
Speaker 4: very carefully at convene where you convene it.

617
00:44:13,320 --> 00:44:17,560
Speaker 1: But on that point, sim could you speak to this

618
00:44:17,680 --> 00:44:22,879
Speaker 1: issue of statute of limitations and the prospect that if

619
00:44:22,960 --> 00:44:27,560
Speaker 1: the conspiracy has effectively been continuing to the present moment, basically,

620
00:44:28,680 --> 00:44:31,319
Speaker 1: that will not be a get out of jail free

621
00:44:31,360 --> 00:44:32,560
Speaker 1: card for any of these characters.

622
00:44:32,680 --> 00:44:36,680
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think if you've got if you've got sharp

623
00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:40,600
Speaker 4: legal counsel, which presumably DOJ intends on assigning that the

624
00:44:40,600 --> 00:44:42,560
Speaker 4: Statute of limitations is not going to be an issue

625
00:44:42,560 --> 00:44:47,280
Speaker 4: because it is an ongoing offense, which means it didn't

626
00:44:47,680 --> 00:44:50,640
Speaker 4: it didn't conclude years ago. It has been ongoing, and

627
00:44:50,719 --> 00:44:53,680
Speaker 4: I think that will not be the issue. In regard

628
00:44:53,719 --> 00:44:59,520
Speaker 4: to Obama himself, do I think he has committed criminal offenses?

629
00:44:59,560 --> 00:45:04,719
Speaker 4: My person opinion, yes. Would I hold out a tremendous

630
00:45:04,719 --> 00:45:07,399
Speaker 4: amount of hope that you're going to get around the

631
00:45:07,520 --> 00:45:11,799
Speaker 4: incredibly broad scope of the immunity that he enjoys as

632
00:45:12,239 --> 00:45:15,719
Speaker 4: former commander in chief and prosecute him. I would not

633
00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:18,040
Speaker 4: pin a lot of hopes on. That doesn't mean I

634
00:45:18,040 --> 00:45:21,880
Speaker 4: don't think it should happen, and I'm not saying they

635
00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:25,320
Speaker 4: shouldn't try. I'm just saying the courts are going to

636
00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:29,080
Speaker 4: draw a really, really broad boundary around that. It's going

637
00:45:29,120 --> 00:45:31,400
Speaker 4: to make it very hard. I would also say.

638
00:45:31,280 --> 00:45:33,200
Speaker 1: And this is on the basis of the Supreme Court

639
00:45:33,280 --> 00:45:34,359
Speaker 1: ruling in connection with.

640
00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:37,520
Speaker 4: That just enhances a whole bunch of that just adds

641
00:45:37,560 --> 00:45:40,440
Speaker 4: to a whole bunch of previous rulings. The courts are

642
00:45:40,480 --> 00:45:42,960
Speaker 4: going to really bend over backwards to stop you from

643
00:45:43,000 --> 00:45:46,719
Speaker 4: criminally prosecuting a former president. That doesn't mean that I'm

644
00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:50,239
Speaker 4: saying his actions are legal. I'm justifying him, I'm excusing them.

645
00:45:50,600 --> 00:45:53,480
Speaker 4: I'm just saying as a practical matter, it will be difficult.

646
00:45:53,640 --> 00:45:55,279
Speaker 4: I would also say this, if you're going to come

647
00:45:55,320 --> 00:46:00,000
Speaker 4: after these other guys Brennan, who I absolutely one hundred

648
00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:03,080
Speaker 4: things should go to prison, you better come loaded for

649
00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:08,600
Speaker 4: bear because the gut every high priced legal attorney on

650
00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:11,160
Speaker 4: the left is going to come out of the woodwork

651
00:46:11,200 --> 00:46:14,680
Speaker 4: with an unlimited budget to defend these guys. So you're

652
00:46:14,719 --> 00:46:16,600
Speaker 4: not going to charge them, take them to court, and

653
00:46:16,600 --> 00:46:20,440
Speaker 4: put them in jail next week. You better it doesn't.

654
00:46:20,760 --> 00:46:23,280
Speaker 4: That is not me arguing against it. It's to the contrary.

655
00:46:23,280 --> 00:46:27,000
Speaker 4: It's just saying, get your act together and bring some

656
00:46:27,080 --> 00:46:30,440
Speaker 4: serious boys and girls to this fight, because they are

657
00:46:30,480 --> 00:46:33,480
Speaker 4: not going to go quietly. You are going to really

658
00:46:33,640 --> 00:46:36,360
Speaker 4: have to fight a war to put these people in prison.

659
00:46:36,600 --> 00:46:38,279
Speaker 4: But I think it has to be done for the

660
00:46:38,320 --> 00:46:40,080
Speaker 4: future of the republic, of.

661
00:46:40,080 --> 00:46:44,440
Speaker 1: The rule of law, not at least and Sam. Again, this

662
00:46:44,520 --> 00:46:47,920
Speaker 1: is speculation, of course at this moment, but just I'd

663
00:46:47,960 --> 00:46:52,960
Speaker 1: be interested in your informed speculation. Our friend Trevor Lowden,

664
00:46:53,040 --> 00:46:56,600
Speaker 1: who has been on this program many times and featured

665
00:46:56,880 --> 00:47:00,879
Speaker 1: with you and others of us in various places. Has

666
00:47:01,880 --> 00:47:06,799
Speaker 1: been arguing, as I think you probably aware, for the

667
00:47:06,880 --> 00:47:14,759
Speaker 1: use of well anti mafia prosecutorial techniques to roll up

668
00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:19,600
Speaker 1: these enemies within, as he calls them, a feature of which,

669
00:47:19,640 --> 00:47:25,880
Speaker 1: as you know, is that you try to secure the

670
00:47:25,920 --> 00:47:31,879
Speaker 1: cooperation of lower level participants in a conspiracy, flip them,

671
00:47:32,440 --> 00:47:36,920
Speaker 1: turn them state's evidence, give them immunity for prosecution in

672
00:47:37,040 --> 00:47:42,160
Speaker 1: order to secure their testimony against some of the higher

673
00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:48,000
Speaker 1: individuals in the conspiracy. Would you anticipate that that will

674
00:47:48,040 --> 00:47:54,680
Speaker 1: be a technique employed by the Trump Justice Department team,

675
00:47:55,040 --> 00:47:59,080
Speaker 1: And if so, what are the chances in your estimation

676
00:47:59,320 --> 00:48:02,240
Speaker 1: that some of these people will in fact flip.

677
00:48:02,760 --> 00:48:04,600
Speaker 2: Look, I think Trever put his finger on it. This

678
00:48:04,760 --> 00:48:05,360
Speaker 2: is essential.

679
00:48:05,480 --> 00:48:07,680
Speaker 4: The only way you're going to win this war is

680
00:48:07,719 --> 00:48:10,200
Speaker 4: by rolling getting some guys to roll on the dawn

681
00:48:10,440 --> 00:48:13,480
Speaker 4: to you know, to use the mafia example. Odds I

682
00:48:13,480 --> 00:48:17,399
Speaker 4: think pretty good because at this point the world has

683
00:48:17,520 --> 00:48:22,040
Speaker 4: changed your your sense that nobody. I think honestly, you're

684
00:48:22,040 --> 00:48:25,680
Speaker 4: also going to find there were some good people in here.

685
00:48:25,719 --> 00:48:27,880
Speaker 1: I'm out of time. I just forgot that this is

686
00:48:28,040 --> 00:48:30,440
Speaker 1: out of time. Thank you, my friend, come back to

687
00:48:30,480 --> 00:48:32,360
Speaker 1: us with through the updates and all this soon.

688
00:48:32,239 --> 00:48:34,840
Speaker 2: More next time, God bless you. Thanks.

689
00:48:34,920 --> 00:48:36,359
Speaker 1: I hope the rest of you'll join us next time

690
00:48:36,360 --> 00:48:38,000
Speaker 1: as well. Until THENK of fourth and multiply