1 00:00:09,480 --> 00:00:15,760 Speaker 1: It's September two thousand four, an unusually humid day in Beijing, 2 00:00:16,720 --> 00:00:21,040 Speaker 1: and Yoji Comi, a Japanese newspaper journalist, stands in the 3 00:00:21,160 --> 00:00:25,760 Speaker 1: first floor lobby of Beijing Capital International Airport, surrounded by 4 00:00:25,880 --> 00:00:31,000 Speaker 1: a gaggle of newspaper, radio, and television reporters. Comy is 5 00:00:31,200 --> 00:00:36,000 Speaker 1: rail thin with studious classes. As crews set up their 6 00:00:36,040 --> 00:00:40,720 Speaker 1: TV cameras and microphones, he anxiously clutches his voice recorder 7 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:44,680 Speaker 1: and a reporter's notebook. The group is waiting for a 8 00:00:44,720 --> 00:00:48,600 Speaker 1: North Korean Ministry official to walk through the terminal. He's 9 00:00:48,720 --> 00:00:54,320 Speaker 1: arriving today, allegedly for economic talks. Comey scans a sea 10 00:00:54,360 --> 00:00:58,280 Speaker 1: of faces floating through the terminal, looking for any sign 11 00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:03,040 Speaker 1: of the Deputy Director General, but no luck. Instead, a 12 00:01:03,120 --> 00:01:05,640 Speaker 1: TV reporter nudges him and points at a man who 13 00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:10,119 Speaker 1: just walked past, remarking how similar he looks to Kim 14 00:01:10,200 --> 00:01:15,400 Speaker 1: Jong Nam. It can't be jong Nam himself, can it? This? Again? 15 00:01:15,920 --> 00:01:20,640 Speaker 1: Was two thousand four, three years after the Tokyo Disneyland incident. 16 00:01:21,640 --> 00:01:25,560 Speaker 1: Nobody outside of North Korea had seen nor heard much 17 00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:28,959 Speaker 1: from Kim Jong Nam. Since Comi had to get a 18 00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:33,800 Speaker 1: better look the man in question is alone. Pudgy but 19 00:01:33,920 --> 00:01:39,120 Speaker 1: cleanly shaven, carrying a small handbag, Comie briskly walks toward 20 00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:42,920 Speaker 1: the man, intercepting his path. He clicks his voice recorder 21 00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:46,280 Speaker 1: on and then he blurts it out, are you Mr 22 00:01:46,360 --> 00:01:51,240 Speaker 1: Kim jong Nam? Almost without hesitation. The man turns, stars 23 00:01:51,320 --> 00:01:55,320 Speaker 1: comey in the eye and says that is right. Soon, 24 00:01:55,720 --> 00:01:59,240 Speaker 1: a small crowd of journalists is following the mysterious man 25 00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:02,320 Speaker 1: who just lane to be King jong Nam. They pelt 26 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:06,120 Speaker 1: him with questions. Why is he here? Is his father 27 00:02:06,240 --> 00:02:09,800 Speaker 1: angry with him? Where is he going? Is he really 28 00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:13,360 Speaker 1: traveling alone? What do you do? One of them asks? 29 00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:16,440 Speaker 1: Kim jong Nam dismisses the question with a wave of 30 00:02:16,480 --> 00:02:21,200 Speaker 1: his hands, saying I can't comment. He picks up the pace, 31 00:02:21,639 --> 00:02:25,640 Speaker 1: trying to escape. Near the terminal exit, a group of 32 00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:29,359 Speaker 1: Chinese men approached the pool of journalists. Comy looks them 33 00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:32,440 Speaker 1: up and down and realizes their bodyguards of some type. 34 00:02:33,000 --> 00:02:35,800 Speaker 1: They probably came to escort the North Korean prince to 35 00:02:35,919 --> 00:02:40,640 Speaker 1: his taxi. The journalists moved outside to the sidewalk where 36 00:02:40,639 --> 00:02:44,160 Speaker 1: a carousel of cars await. They badger Chong Nam with 37 00:02:44,240 --> 00:02:50,920 Speaker 1: more questions. He bats them away. I don't know. I 38 00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:54,360 Speaker 1: don't know. A taxi pulls up and Kim jong Nam 39 00:02:54,360 --> 00:02:59,359 Speaker 1: flings the door open. Comey's instincts kicking. He reaches into 40 00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:02,280 Speaker 1: his pocket, pulls out a business card and stretches it 41 00:03:02,360 --> 00:03:05,919 Speaker 1: toward the door. About five other journalists do the same. 42 00:03:06,840 --> 00:03:11,080 Speaker 1: Tonguam smiles, gently takes the cards and says, I will 43 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:15,040 Speaker 1: contact you when I get to Beijing. The door closes 44 00:03:15,639 --> 00:03:25,840 Speaker 1: and the taxi rolls off. Days would pass, then weeks 45 00:03:26,480 --> 00:03:30,200 Speaker 1: and months, but Comey heard nothing from the Dear Leader's 46 00:03:30,200 --> 00:03:35,160 Speaker 1: elusive son. By winter, Comey had practically forgotten what happened 47 00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:39,320 Speaker 1: in the Beijing airport. He's a journalist. People promise to 48 00:03:39,320 --> 00:03:42,960 Speaker 1: return his messages all the time and then don't. It 49 00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:49,440 Speaker 1: doesn't mean anything. And then in early December two thousand four, 50 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:54,640 Speaker 1: Comy turns on his computer and notices an unusual message 51 00:03:54,960 --> 00:04:00,960 Speaker 1: written in Hunger, the Korean writing system. The title says greetings. 52 00:04:02,000 --> 00:04:08,920 Speaker 1: Comey opens the message, it begins, Hello, this is Kim 53 00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:17,160 Speaker 1: jong Nam. I'm even lee. In this episode, the story 54 00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:20,800 Speaker 1: of the revealing friendship between a Japanese journalist and Kim 55 00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:24,599 Speaker 1: Jong Nam and how when his baby brother took power 56 00:04:25,160 --> 00:04:30,320 Speaker 1: it changed everything the leader of North Korea turned out 57 00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:34,680 Speaker 1: officials because they proved to be disloyal. There's also potential 58 00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:38,839 Speaker 1: security implications, and when it comes to Kim Jong nun's 59 00:04:38,880 --> 00:04:44,159 Speaker 1: own life, old totalitarian dictators, by their nature are paranoid. 60 00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:46,520 Speaker 1: They white up every morning thinking is this going to 61 00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:55,680 Speaker 1: be my last day? This is big brother. In the 62 00:04:55,760 --> 00:04:59,839 Speaker 1: early two thousand's, the occasional Kim jong nam sighting was 63 00:04:59,880 --> 00:05:02,960 Speaker 1: the closest the media could get to the Kim dynasty. 64 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:08,520 Speaker 1: He was like a socialist sasquatch, a reclusive creature that 65 00:05:08,640 --> 00:05:13,760 Speaker 1: lumbered unannounced through airport terminals or city sidewalks, and when 66 00:05:13,839 --> 00:05:17,120 Speaker 1: journalists did spot him, like this airport encounter in two 67 00:05:17,200 --> 00:05:23,360 Speaker 1: thousand nine, they usually couldn't get much out of him. 68 00:05:25,480 --> 00:05:33,599 Speaker 1: I cannot tell. The rare sighting would drive the world 69 00:05:33,600 --> 00:05:38,159 Speaker 1: of political gossip into a tailspin, and the more Kim 70 00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:41,559 Speaker 1: jong Nam was seen, the more speculation there was about 71 00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:46,240 Speaker 1: his activities for the regime, and the more speculation, the 72 00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:51,520 Speaker 1: murkier the truth became. It's impossible to say with certainty 73 00:05:52,080 --> 00:05:54,960 Speaker 1: what exactly Kim jong nam was doing all that time. 74 00:05:55,920 --> 00:05:58,920 Speaker 1: Was he still working for his father or was he 75 00:05:59,080 --> 00:06:03,080 Speaker 1: living in endless vacation in Macau. Was he banished from 76 00:06:03,080 --> 00:06:05,719 Speaker 1: his homeland where had he simply opted for a more 77 00:06:05,800 --> 00:06:10,400 Speaker 1: capitalistic lifestyle. It's unclear, but here's what we do know. 78 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:14,000 Speaker 1: Kim jong Nam may have started living in a villa 79 00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:18,200 Speaker 1: outside Beijing, protected behind the walls of a gated community 80 00:06:18,680 --> 00:06:23,960 Speaker 1: as early as We also know that around that time 81 00:06:24,480 --> 00:06:28,680 Speaker 1: to Nam had a son named Kim hans Hole. We 82 00:06:28,839 --> 00:06:32,840 Speaker 1: also know that parenthood didn't stop him from his jet 83 00:06:32,880 --> 00:06:37,760 Speaker 1: setting playboy ways. Journalists and intelligence officials kept tabs on 84 00:06:37,839 --> 00:06:41,200 Speaker 1: Kim jong Nam's movements thanks to the testimony of girls 85 00:06:41,240 --> 00:06:44,640 Speaker 1: working red light districts across Asia who took note of 86 00:06:44,680 --> 00:06:49,719 Speaker 1: a portly high roller who devoured sashimi, drained bottles of Hennessy, 87 00:06:49,880 --> 00:06:53,159 Speaker 1: and paid good money to spend time with his favorite women. 88 00:06:53,960 --> 00:06:57,400 Speaker 1: Intelligence officials verified that this heavy spender was Kim jong 89 00:06:57,520 --> 00:07:01,120 Speaker 1: Nam thanks to two tattoos on his back, one of 90 00:07:01,120 --> 00:07:04,599 Speaker 1: a tiger, another of a koi fish in the garish 91 00:07:04,680 --> 00:07:10,000 Speaker 1: style preferred by the Japanese mafia. Here's Anna Fifield. We 92 00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:14,239 Speaker 1: do know that he had some admiration for or lose 93 00:07:14,360 --> 00:07:18,000 Speaker 1: ties with the yakuza in Japan and the Chinese triads. 94 00:07:18,640 --> 00:07:24,559 Speaker 1: He did have this very elaborate Koi fish tattoo, which 95 00:07:24,640 --> 00:07:29,160 Speaker 1: is something often associated with triads and yakuza in Asia. 96 00:07:29,320 --> 00:07:33,320 Speaker 1: So suggestions but no smoking gun to say that he 97 00:07:33,440 --> 00:07:37,840 Speaker 1: was deeply embedded in the criminal underworld. That's just one 98 00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:42,600 Speaker 1: of many rumors. People in Macau claimed to see Kim 99 00:07:42,680 --> 00:07:46,920 Speaker 1: jong Nam wasting his days and nights drinking and gambling. 100 00:07:47,560 --> 00:07:50,480 Speaker 1: Others speculated that he was still doing work for the regime, 101 00:07:51,160 --> 00:07:55,320 Speaker 1: possibly laundering money. Others claimed that he had been completely 102 00:07:55,360 --> 00:08:00,240 Speaker 1: cut off. According to five Fields book Words, circular did 103 00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:02,920 Speaker 1: that Kim jong Nam's only linked to the regime was 104 00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:07,640 Speaker 1: long alcohol fueled phone calls he routinely had with his aunt, 105 00:08:08,040 --> 00:08:11,840 Speaker 1: Kim Jong Il's sister. Some suggest he was receiving an 106 00:08:11,880 --> 00:08:15,360 Speaker 1: allowance from her husband and his uncle Chang Chong Tech. 107 00:08:15,760 --> 00:08:19,400 Speaker 1: Kim jong Nam was extremely close to his uncle Joan 108 00:08:19,520 --> 00:08:22,640 Speaker 1: Song Tech, so he was acting as an uncle of 109 00:08:22,760 --> 00:08:26,800 Speaker 1: father figure, very close and and advocating for Kim jong 110 00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:31,480 Speaker 1: Nam and his interests, and that bond stayed over time 111 00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:36,360 Speaker 1: as Kim jong Nam grew up. If true, Kang Song 112 00:08:36,440 --> 00:08:39,640 Speaker 1: Tech might have been Kim jong Nam's last saving grace 113 00:08:39,760 --> 00:08:42,760 Speaker 1: in the eyes of the regime. Keek was a mover 114 00:08:42,960 --> 00:08:47,000 Speaker 1: and shaker, a charismatic statesman in charge of developing North 115 00:08:47,080 --> 00:08:51,880 Speaker 1: Korea's financial dealings with China. He flew around the globe 116 00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:56,160 Speaker 1: buying up resources for the country's development projects, from coal 117 00:08:56,240 --> 00:09:00,160 Speaker 1: mines to construction sites. Some like to call him the 118 00:09:00,240 --> 00:09:05,000 Speaker 1: Kim jong Il who goes abroad, and like Kim Jong Nam, 119 00:09:05,040 --> 00:09:09,040 Speaker 1: he was an advocate for modernizing North Korea. They both 120 00:09:09,120 --> 00:09:15,080 Speaker 1: were proponents of opening up, reforming or improving in North 121 00:09:15,160 --> 00:09:19,640 Speaker 1: Korean words, the economy, and following a more Chinese path 122 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:26,120 Speaker 1: of economic liberalization without political change. The difference was Chang 123 00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:30,040 Speaker 1: Song Tech was clearly still in Kim Jong Il's inner circle. 124 00:09:30,920 --> 00:09:35,280 Speaker 1: He was the Dear Leader's right hand man. Kim Jong Nam, 125 00:09:35,280 --> 00:09:40,400 Speaker 1: by all appearances, was not. None of this information was 126 00:09:40,520 --> 00:09:44,559 Speaker 1: new to a journalist like Yoji Gomi. He had been 127 00:09:44,600 --> 00:09:49,080 Speaker 1: covering North Korea's palace dramas for years, and when he 128 00:09:49,160 --> 00:09:51,880 Speaker 1: first saw that message from Kim Jong Nam reach his inbox, 129 00:09:52,440 --> 00:09:55,400 Speaker 1: he was skeptical that it was actually the exiled prince 130 00:09:55,480 --> 00:09:59,760 Speaker 1: reaching out to him. Comy wanted to confirm the man's 131 00:09:59,760 --> 00:10:03,559 Speaker 1: idea entity, so he went for it and replied, would 132 00:10:03,559 --> 00:10:08,079 Speaker 1: it be possible to meet and talk. That same day, 133 00:10:08,400 --> 00:10:13,640 Speaker 1: Kim jong Nam replied with two emails. Both answers dodged 134 00:10:13,679 --> 00:10:17,880 Speaker 1: the question. I am always hard at work for my country. 135 00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:21,600 Speaker 1: I apologize for not being able to answer more, wishing 136 00:10:21,600 --> 00:10:25,760 Speaker 1: you the best of health. Have a nice weekend, respectfully, 137 00:10:26,200 --> 00:10:31,199 Speaker 1: Kim jong Nam. It wasn't much, but Comy's heart raced. 138 00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:35,400 Speaker 1: This could become the scoop of a lifetime. The fact 139 00:10:35,440 --> 00:10:38,040 Speaker 1: that a member of North Korean royalty had contacted the 140 00:10:38,080 --> 00:10:41,679 Speaker 1: media brief as it was, was news in and of itself. 141 00:10:42,200 --> 00:10:44,760 Speaker 1: And the fact Hong Nam suggested he was still working 142 00:10:44,800 --> 00:10:48,800 Speaker 1: for the regime but in Macau begged a question what 143 00:10:48,880 --> 00:10:52,600 Speaker 1: was he doing? Was he a spy? Was he laundering money? 144 00:10:52,800 --> 00:10:55,520 Speaker 1: Was he acting as some sort of liaison with the Chinese? 145 00:10:55,880 --> 00:10:59,240 Speaker 1: Trying to become like his uncle Chang Song Tech So 146 00:10:59,360 --> 00:11:02,280 Speaker 1: Comey paba is to story in the Tokyo Shimbun newspaper. 147 00:11:03,360 --> 00:11:06,320 Speaker 1: A few days later. When Kim Jong Nam learned Comey 148 00:11:06,360 --> 00:11:09,760 Speaker 1: had published an article about his short email messages, he 149 00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:14,280 Speaker 1: wrote again, chiding the journalists for not verifying his identity. 150 00:11:14,320 --> 00:11:17,800 Speaker 1: Are you writing up and sending in stories without confirming 151 00:11:17,840 --> 00:11:20,640 Speaker 1: that I'm in fact? Kim Jong Nam is that what 152 00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:23,600 Speaker 1: you do? But Comey could tell that there was a 153 00:11:23,679 --> 00:11:28,079 Speaker 1: smart lurking behind the message, I don't mind your writing 154 00:11:28,160 --> 00:11:32,280 Speaker 1: stories based on our communications at all, Comey's mind began 155 00:11:32,360 --> 00:11:35,400 Speaker 1: to whirl. Here was a man who knew the ins 156 00:11:35,400 --> 00:11:38,040 Speaker 1: and outs of one of the most secretive societies on 157 00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:42,280 Speaker 1: the planet. The journalists began cooking up ways to entice 158 00:11:42,320 --> 00:11:46,240 Speaker 1: the source into a face to face meeting. Other journalists 159 00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:50,760 Speaker 1: receiving Kim jong Nam's messages weren't as enthusiastic. Many were 160 00:11:50,840 --> 00:11:55,520 Speaker 1: doubting his identity, and Kim Jong Nam wasn't happy about it. 161 00:11:56,400 --> 00:12:01,400 Speaker 1: One day, Comey opened his inbox and found a testy email. 162 00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:06,120 Speaker 1: I continued to sense their strong doubts and skepticism about 163 00:12:06,120 --> 00:12:09,960 Speaker 1: my true identity. Based on this, I must tell you 164 00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:14,240 Speaker 1: that I will terminate all communications with reporters as of today, 165 00:12:14,240 --> 00:12:20,560 Speaker 1: wishing you a healthy and fruitful year end and New Year, respectfully. 166 00:12:20,760 --> 00:12:25,200 Speaker 1: Self proclaimed Kim jong Numb or person presumed to be 167 00:12:25,360 --> 00:12:31,600 Speaker 1: Kim jong Nam. Comey was crestfallen. After two days of 168 00:12:31,760 --> 00:12:36,239 Speaker 1: feverish emailing. The biggest scoop of his career had collapsed. 169 00:12:37,080 --> 00:12:51,760 Speaker 1: His inbox went silent six years past and then on October. Hello, 170 00:12:52,320 --> 00:12:55,240 Speaker 1: this is Kim jong numb. I hear that you are 171 00:12:55,360 --> 00:12:58,600 Speaker 1: very knowledgeable about North Korea, and I am willing to 172 00:12:58,640 --> 00:13:22,439 Speaker 1: answer any question as you might have. The timing of 173 00:13:22,559 --> 00:13:26,160 Speaker 1: Kim jong Nam's email and two thousand and ten was telling. 174 00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:30,840 Speaker 1: One month earlier, his father had publicly announced that his 175 00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:35,040 Speaker 1: younger half brother, the year old Kim Jong un, would 176 00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:38,280 Speaker 1: be the successor. Did Kim jong Nam reach out to 177 00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:42,079 Speaker 1: Comy because he was jealous? Was he feeling spurned by 178 00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:46,640 Speaker 1: his father? Had the relationship broken down? Was Kim jong 179 00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:53,800 Speaker 1: Nam scared HOMEY had to know? Any expert will tell 180 00:13:53,880 --> 00:13:57,560 Speaker 1: you the Kim inner circle can be a terrifying place 181 00:13:57,640 --> 00:14:01,400 Speaker 1: during a change of leadership. The country has a history 182 00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:05,079 Speaker 1: of squashing any and all competition when a new leader 183 00:14:05,160 --> 00:14:10,400 Speaker 1: is installed. Here's Michael Madden. It goes all the way 184 00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:13,079 Speaker 1: back to the forties, when the Soviets installed Kim John 185 00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:17,120 Speaker 1: UN's grandfather, Kim Il sung, into office. After Kim Il 186 00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:20,840 Speaker 1: sung was made chairman, splinter groups of pro Soviet and 187 00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:25,200 Speaker 1: pro China communists banded together to replace him, arguing that 188 00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:30,480 Speaker 1: Kim had failed to follow the Leninist principle of collective leadership. 189 00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:34,680 Speaker 1: Like any good guerilla leader Kim Il sung enlisted his 190 00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:40,920 Speaker 1: supporters to arrest those who questioned him, and then he starts. 191 00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:44,400 Speaker 1: He starts to eliminate people, very very early on in 192 00:14:44,440 --> 00:14:50,440 Speaker 1: the regime. As the regime forms ten years later, it 193 00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:55,120 Speaker 1: would happen again. A band of Kimil Song's guerrilla comrades 194 00:14:55,200 --> 00:14:59,520 Speaker 1: advocated for economic change and attempted to install a new 195 00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:05,479 Speaker 1: leader named Pak Kumtung. Kimo Song was familiar with his competitor. 196 00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:09,640 Speaker 1: The two men had fought side by side against the Japanese. 197 00:15:10,240 --> 00:15:15,280 Speaker 1: They were even friends, but that meant nothing. When pac 198 00:15:15,400 --> 00:15:19,080 Speaker 1: threatened the Supreme Leader's power, he and all of his 199 00:15:19,160 --> 00:15:24,960 Speaker 1: supporters were purged. Anyone associated with the subversive character would 200 00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:30,760 Speaker 1: either be dismissed from their posts or exterminated altogether. And 201 00:15:30,920 --> 00:15:36,240 Speaker 1: this has become something of a tradition ever since. It's 202 00:15:36,280 --> 00:15:38,280 Speaker 1: just the nature. It's just the nature of the North 203 00:15:38,360 --> 00:15:41,400 Speaker 1: Korean political culture that the leader of North Korea turns 204 00:15:41,440 --> 00:15:44,720 Speaker 1: out officials because they proved to be disloyal, or that 205 00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:48,120 Speaker 1: they proved they might form alternative power centers and take 206 00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:50,520 Speaker 1: all of the glory and attention away from the leader. 207 00:15:52,560 --> 00:15:57,680 Speaker 1: Kim Jong il would make similar changes when he was installed, 208 00:15:58,720 --> 00:16:02,040 Speaker 1: and so too it was expected, would Kim Jong un 209 00:16:03,760 --> 00:16:08,560 Speaker 1: forget quaint notions of filial piety, forget the rhetoric of Chu, 210 00:16:09,280 --> 00:16:13,520 Speaker 1: forget the propaganda of the personality cult. The Kim regime 211 00:16:13,640 --> 00:16:19,520 Speaker 1: is driven largely by one emotion, and one emotion alone, paranoia. 212 00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:24,320 Speaker 1: Totalitarian dictators, by their nature, are paranoid the white cap 213 00:16:24,360 --> 00:16:27,320 Speaker 1: every morning thinking is this going to be my last day? 214 00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:30,880 Speaker 1: Kim Il sung learned this lesson early from the days 215 00:16:30,960 --> 00:16:35,000 Speaker 1: his uncle was betrayed by a family friend and from 216 00:16:35,000 --> 00:16:37,960 Speaker 1: the factions of ex friends who tried to overturn his 217 00:16:38,120 --> 00:16:43,120 Speaker 1: rule in the nineteen fifties. The resulting paranoia would become 218 00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:48,400 Speaker 1: the foundation of North Korea's institutions, including its brutal prison 219 00:16:48,520 --> 00:16:53,640 Speaker 1: camps or quality so many individuals would say that the 220 00:16:53,720 --> 00:16:57,920 Speaker 1: camps have basically come about as a result of having 221 00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:03,600 Speaker 1: to deal with population that was considered hostile to the regime. 222 00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:08,280 Speaker 1: That again is Dr Sandra Fahey. She's the author of 223 00:17:08,280 --> 00:17:12,280 Speaker 1: the book Dying for Rights, which investigates North Korea's human 224 00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:18,320 Speaker 1: rights abuses. As she explains, originally North Korea's prison camps 225 00:17:18,320 --> 00:17:22,520 Speaker 1: were built to detain Japanese sympathizers and any anti camp sentiment. 226 00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:28,359 Speaker 1: When Korea was divided and when the Soviet Union installed 227 00:17:28,560 --> 00:17:33,399 Speaker 1: Kim Il sung, the North Koreans needed to make sure 228 00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:38,040 Speaker 1: that within the community, within the country, there weren't going 229 00:17:38,080 --> 00:17:41,560 Speaker 1: to be individuals who questioned Kimilsung, so those individuals had 230 00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:44,399 Speaker 1: to be basically taken away, but the list of potential 231 00:17:44,440 --> 00:17:49,800 Speaker 1: offenses would quickly expand. Today, anybody can be sent to 232 00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:54,080 Speaker 1: hard labor camp for committing minor crimes such as gossiping 233 00:17:54,240 --> 00:17:59,080 Speaker 1: or like one poor journalists found out misspelling the Supreme 234 00:17:59,160 --> 00:18:03,520 Speaker 1: leader's name. For North Korea, the threat of a prison 235 00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:07,520 Speaker 1: camp is a powerful tool for scaring the populace into 236 00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:12,600 Speaker 1: compliance and a way to save money with slave labor. 237 00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:15,080 Speaker 1: They wanted to make use of these individuals, so they 238 00:18:15,119 --> 00:18:18,760 Speaker 1: make them work, and that's why they didn't just completely 239 00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:23,600 Speaker 1: exterminate them. In the camps, political prisoners spend hours a 240 00:18:23,720 --> 00:18:28,959 Speaker 1: day mining for coal, gold, or iron. Others are routinely 241 00:18:29,040 --> 00:18:34,440 Speaker 1: sent to re education camps for brainwashing, or, as Dr 242 00:18:34,520 --> 00:18:38,720 Speaker 1: Fahey calls it, an ideological booster shot. Locals have a 243 00:18:38,840 --> 00:18:43,080 Speaker 1: name for this kind of punishment. It's called being sent 244 00:18:43,600 --> 00:18:47,719 Speaker 1: to the mountains. That's a heartbreaking detail of life in 245 00:18:47,720 --> 00:18:50,879 Speaker 1: North Korea. If you are sent to prison in North Korea, 246 00:18:51,119 --> 00:18:56,720 Speaker 1: you enter a whole different realm of human experience. Prison 247 00:18:56,800 --> 00:18:59,160 Speaker 1: is not the punishment. Prison is the place where more 248 00:18:59,160 --> 00:19:06,760 Speaker 1: punishment happens. Physical torture, sexual abuse, for starvation. Those are 249 00:19:06,840 --> 00:19:09,000 Speaker 1: just a few of the things waiting for those in 250 00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:14,400 Speaker 1: the North Korean prison camps. The conditions are frankly unspeakable. 251 00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:20,960 Speaker 1: About of all prisoners die from malnutrition. Reports claim that 252 00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:25,760 Speaker 1: people survive off literal crumbs, sometimes fighting over pucks of 253 00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:31,040 Speaker 1: cow dung hoping to find a kernel of corn. And 254 00:19:31,080 --> 00:19:33,639 Speaker 1: it's the fate of anybody who dares to threaten the 255 00:19:33,720 --> 00:19:39,840 Speaker 1: line of succession or criticize the regime. And that that 256 00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:43,040 Speaker 1: was the risk Kim jong Nam was taking when he 257 00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:49,440 Speaker 1: started talking to a journalist. Because the camps, they don't discriminate. 258 00:19:50,359 --> 00:19:54,080 Speaker 1: Even Kim Jong Nam's uncle, the beloved Chang Song Tech, 259 00:19:54,440 --> 00:19:57,840 Speaker 1: the number two leader in the whole country, had been 260 00:19:57,880 --> 00:20:01,800 Speaker 1: sent to a re education camp before. If it happened 261 00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:08,600 Speaker 1: to him, it could happen to anybody, including Kim jong Nam, 262 00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:12,760 Speaker 1: But that didn't stop him. In the weeks after his 263 00:20:12,840 --> 00:20:16,520 Speaker 1: little brother was named successor, Kim jong Nam began an 264 00:20:16,520 --> 00:20:21,920 Speaker 1: intense digital friendship with the Jikomi. The two would share 265 00:20:22,000 --> 00:20:27,640 Speaker 1: more than one hundred and fifty emails. Take your time 266 00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:30,720 Speaker 1: to get your questions ready and emailed them to me. 267 00:20:31,160 --> 00:20:35,520 Speaker 1: I'll respond as sincerely as I can, and off the 268 00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:40,600 Speaker 1: record conversation might be possible, provided that you keep your word. 269 00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:48,639 Speaker 1: Six years since their last email, Kim jong Nam no 270 00:20:48,720 --> 00:20:53,600 Speaker 1: longer seemed worried about offending the regime. The recent succession 271 00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:58,639 Speaker 1: announcement apparently had provoked him and the disdain spilled into 272 00:20:58,680 --> 00:21:02,000 Speaker 1: his emails. There has been no precedent for a third 273 00:21:02,040 --> 00:21:07,199 Speaker 1: generation dynasty except during the feudal dynasty period. People agree 274 00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:10,360 Speaker 1: to the fact that the third generation dynasty does not 275 00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:14,520 Speaker 1: comply with socialism either. I also believe that our father, 276 00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:18,919 Speaker 1: who was more negative about third generation dynasty than anybody else, 277 00:21:19,359 --> 00:21:22,639 Speaker 1: was compelled to carry out the dynastic succession due to 278 00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:27,359 Speaker 1: strong internal factors, where North Korean people are used to 279 00:21:27,440 --> 00:21:30,760 Speaker 1: believing in following only the so called pick to bloodline. 280 00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:35,239 Speaker 1: I personally assumed that some troublesome situations were expected if 281 00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:39,680 Speaker 1: a successor outside the bloodline were to appear. The peck 282 00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:43,800 Speaker 1: to bloodline, as Kim Jong Nam saw it, the myth 283 00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:48,280 Speaker 1: embraced by his grandfather, which had helped solidify the family's rule, 284 00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:54,360 Speaker 1: had also trapped them. In a truly communist system, there 285 00:21:54,359 --> 00:21:58,640 Speaker 1: would be collective leadership, but for the past sixty years, 286 00:21:58,960 --> 00:22:01,479 Speaker 1: the state has sold the North Korean people on the 287 00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:05,879 Speaker 1: lie that the true leader must have pure blood, and 288 00:22:06,000 --> 00:22:11,159 Speaker 1: now they were boxed in. I think North Korea determined 289 00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:13,920 Speaker 1: that even if it were to move towards a collective 290 00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:17,880 Speaker 1: leadership system in the future, unless the leaders appointed from 291 00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:21,159 Speaker 1: the pict bloodline, it would not be able to maintain 292 00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:24,560 Speaker 1: the power elite, and so it carried out the third 293 00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:29,280 Speaker 1: generation following the pict bloodline and consideration of North Korea's 294 00:22:29,359 --> 00:22:35,320 Speaker 1: internal uniqueness. I am opposed to a third generation dynasty. However, 295 00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:37,920 Speaker 1: I said that if there was a need to push 296 00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:40,840 Speaker 1: forward the third generation dynasty for the sake of the 297 00:22:40,840 --> 00:22:44,640 Speaker 1: internal stability of North Korea, we must comply with it. 298 00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:49,639 Speaker 1: This last part made Comey's ears perk up. Kim Jong 299 00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:56,199 Speaker 1: Nam kept vaguely mentioning internal stability and internal factors. Comey 300 00:22:56,240 --> 00:23:00,640 Speaker 1: had wanted to know what exactly those internal fact there's were. 301 00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:05,639 Speaker 1: Kim Jong Nam did not hold back. This is my 302 00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:08,800 Speaker 1: personal view, but when I try to think about how 303 00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:11,399 Speaker 1: many of the top officials who assist my father and 304 00:23:11,440 --> 00:23:15,359 Speaker 1: the successor in North Korea sincerely care about the livelihood 305 00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:18,680 Speaker 1: of the North Korean people. I regret to say there 306 00:23:18,680 --> 00:23:23,080 Speaker 1: are not that many. In reality, there are treacherous attendants 307 00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:27,240 Speaker 1: who devote themselves to toadyism in order to survive, and 308 00:23:27,240 --> 00:23:30,919 Speaker 1: those who solely pursue their own comfort and formed barriers 309 00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:33,639 Speaker 1: between the people and the leader by telling lies about 310 00:23:33,680 --> 00:23:37,400 Speaker 1: state affairs. I hope such people will be removed from 311 00:23:37,440 --> 00:23:41,840 Speaker 1: around my father and the successor. I definitely believe they 312 00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:44,879 Speaker 1: will not be beneficial for the development of North Korea 313 00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:49,440 Speaker 1: and for the future of the successor. In other words, 314 00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:53,120 Speaker 1: Kim Jong Nam knew that his father was surrounded by 315 00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:56,919 Speaker 1: sycophants and suck ups, people who are more interested in 316 00:23:56,960 --> 00:24:00,320 Speaker 1: their own safety and security than that of regular people. 317 00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:03,680 Speaker 1: Comey asked Chong Nam if he ever got to talk 318 00:24:03,720 --> 00:24:09,320 Speaker 1: to his father about these problems. Nam's reply, All the time, 319 00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:12,880 Speaker 1: I tell him about what I think, frankly, without any 320 00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:16,720 Speaker 1: rehearsed script. In the past, I've directly spoken to him 321 00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:20,200 Speaker 1: about the concerns of the international community about the nuclear 322 00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:24,639 Speaker 1: tests and missile launching tests. Reading these messages, it was 323 00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:26,880 Speaker 1: clear to call me that Kim jong Nam was not 324 00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:30,040 Speaker 1: an exile at all, but was in fact one of 325 00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:33,880 Speaker 1: the few people close to the Supreme Leader and one 326 00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:37,159 Speaker 1: of the few people who is actually brave enough to 327 00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:42,760 Speaker 1: tell him the truth. The distance gave him some protection, 328 00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:46,280 Speaker 1: some latitude to tell his father what he didn't want 329 00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:50,760 Speaker 1: to hear. The distance also solidified his feelings that North 330 00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:56,760 Speaker 1: Korea had to change. According to my common sense, reform 331 00:24:56,800 --> 00:25:00,240 Speaker 1: and liberalization are considered to be essential for a any 332 00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:04,240 Speaker 1: economic development. While staying in China for many years, I 333 00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:09,480 Speaker 1: have directly witnessed and experienced how China achieved development all 334 00:25:09,520 --> 00:25:12,520 Speaker 1: of these statements, These were the types of things that 335 00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:17,359 Speaker 1: got people sent to the mountains for a long long time. 336 00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:20,840 Speaker 1: But Kim jong Nam knew that if anybody had the 337 00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:24,359 Speaker 1: privilege to speak out, it was him, the son of 338 00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:28,880 Speaker 1: the dear Leader. His stepmother might try to ruin him, 339 00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:34,800 Speaker 1: maybe even his little brother, but his father never Still, 340 00:25:35,359 --> 00:25:40,120 Speaker 1: Kim jong Nam had to tread carefully. He weighed his words. 341 00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:43,880 Speaker 1: He reiterated that he did not speak for the government. 342 00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:49,960 Speaker 1: Whenever he mentioned his father, he spoke reverently. But Kim 343 00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:54,800 Speaker 1: jong Nam's fear seemed most palpable. Whenever he mentioned his 344 00:25:54,960 --> 00:25:59,640 Speaker 1: little brother, Comey could tell that Chong Nam was measuring 345 00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:04,160 Speaker 1: his words. The North Korean people, who only have access 346 00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:07,479 Speaker 1: to such propaganda in their life are not likely to 347 00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:10,800 Speaker 1: find out how things really are. But it would really 348 00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:13,080 Speaker 1: hurt me if the entire world comes to look at 349 00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:15,639 Speaker 1: my brother as a villain. I hope that my brother 350 00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:18,480 Speaker 1: will become a leader who is renowned among the people 351 00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:22,520 Speaker 1: of the same race for his virtues. The journalists and 352 00:26:22,600 --> 00:26:27,600 Speaker 1: the prince would exchange messages for twelve weeks, and in 353 00:26:27,760 --> 00:26:31,119 Speaker 1: that time, Comey not only got Kim Jong Nam to 354 00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:34,920 Speaker 1: open up, he got him to agree to a face 355 00:26:35,040 --> 00:26:43,760 Speaker 1: to face on the record interview. On January, Comey arrived 356 00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:47,760 Speaker 1: in Macau to meet the eldest son of North Korea's dictator. 357 00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:52,440 Speaker 1: Comey arrived with his wife, hoping that traveling in tandem 358 00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:55,800 Speaker 1: would help him blending with tourists, you know, look a 359 00:26:55,880 --> 00:27:01,040 Speaker 1: little less suspicious. Waiting in a hotel lobby, Comey scanned 360 00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:05,639 Speaker 1: the door, waiting for the prince to enter. Then a 361 00:27:05,720 --> 00:27:10,560 Speaker 1: man wearing a black jacket walked in his face, obscured 362 00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:16,359 Speaker 1: by sunglasses. It was Kim Jong Nam. The men sat down, 363 00:27:16,920 --> 00:27:20,600 Speaker 1: made idle chit chat, and Comey turned on his trusty 364 00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:27,120 Speaker 1: voice recorder. Then on the record, Kim jong Nam opened up. 365 00:27:28,320 --> 00:27:33,120 Speaker 1: He repeated his opposition to a third generation dynasty, arguing 366 00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:36,760 Speaker 1: again that until recently his father had been opposed to 367 00:27:36,800 --> 00:27:40,760 Speaker 1: the idea as well. He again blamed the power elite 368 00:27:40,800 --> 00:27:45,119 Speaker 1: for North Korea's problems. He even blasted his father's recent 369 00:27:45,160 --> 00:27:50,160 Speaker 1: attempt at currency reform, calling it a failure. He advocated 370 00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:55,120 Speaker 1: for change and name dropped his reformist uncle. I think 371 00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:58,400 Speaker 1: the country's trapped in the dilemma. While it is obvious 372 00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:02,159 Speaker 1: that his economy will collapse, that does not carry out reform. 373 00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:05,520 Speaker 1: Reform could also trigger a collapse of the regime. I 374 00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:08,760 Speaker 1: would expect time will pass away as the country remains 375 00:28:08,800 --> 00:28:11,800 Speaker 1: in the state of affairs. From what I have heard 376 00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:16,200 Speaker 1: on the Mr Changsung text, leadership, North Korea seriously considered 377 00:28:16,280 --> 00:28:21,159 Speaker 1: introducing Chinese style reform and liberalization. At the end of 378 00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:25,040 Speaker 1: the conversation, Comey asked permission to put everything the two 379 00:28:25,119 --> 00:28:29,320 Speaker 1: had talked about in an article. Kim Jong Nam approved, 380 00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:54,680 Speaker 1: Comy published it right away. For North Korean's it's risky 381 00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:59,800 Speaker 1: to say or publish anything remotely critical about their country, 382 00:29:00,720 --> 00:29:05,400 Speaker 1: especially if you've abandoned the regime. Nobody would know that 383 00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:10,400 Speaker 1: better than Kim jong Nam's own family. You probably recall 384 00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:14,280 Speaker 1: that two of his cousins and his aunt all published 385 00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:18,880 Speaker 1: tell All memoirs. One of them would be shot dead, 386 00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:24,080 Speaker 1: the others remained in hiding to this day, and Kim 387 00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:28,000 Speaker 1: jong Nam clearly already had enemies in the regime long 388 00:29:28,080 --> 00:29:32,720 Speaker 1: before he began talking to Yojigomi. In two thousand four, 389 00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:37,960 Speaker 1: Kim jong Nam had been visiting Vienna, Austria. There, security 390 00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:43,720 Speaker 1: officials purportedly received a tip about a plot to kill him. 391 00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:47,920 Speaker 1: According to a source quote, the attempt was made by 392 00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:53,520 Speaker 1: anti Kim groups in North Korea. Others, however, suggest that 393 00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:57,800 Speaker 1: it could have come from the first family itself. Whoever 394 00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:03,600 Speaker 1: it was, the plan was miss seriously thwarted. Then, in 395 00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:07,920 Speaker 1: April of two thousand nine, a secret police unit stormed 396 00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:10,520 Speaker 1: into the Pyongyang villa that Kim jong Nam used when 397 00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:14,280 Speaker 1: visiting North Korea. It's where the firstborn son like to 398 00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:19,000 Speaker 1: party and entertain, and when the cops showed up, everyone 399 00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:24,760 Speaker 1: in the building was taken away, presumably to the mountains, 400 00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:31,920 Speaker 1: but Kim jong Nam wasn't there that day, Kim jong 401 00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:37,000 Speaker 1: Nam was becoming paranoid. He began using an old Nokia 402 00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:40,320 Speaker 1: phone that couldn't be tracked. He covered the cameras on 403 00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:43,120 Speaker 1: his laptop with tape. According to the owner of a 404 00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:46,480 Speaker 1: restaurant that Kim jong Nam often visited, the elder Prince 405 00:30:46,560 --> 00:30:50,400 Speaker 1: must have carried a device that jam security cameras, because 406 00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:55,840 Speaker 1: whenever he came to eat, the CCTV would malfunction. Rumors 407 00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:59,960 Speaker 1: began swirling that by the late two thousands, the China 408 00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:03,840 Speaker 1: government was offering Kim jong Nam his own security detail 409 00:31:04,360 --> 00:31:08,920 Speaker 1: with twenty four hour protection and monitoring. It's this last 410 00:31:08,960 --> 00:31:14,040 Speaker 1: measure that's prompted a slew of conspiracy theories. Did China 411 00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:18,640 Speaker 1: consider Kim jong Nam as a potential leader? China's number 412 00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:23,600 Speaker 1: one consideration when it comes to the Korean peninsula is stability. 413 00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:27,600 Speaker 1: They do not want a catastrophic collapse of North Korea 414 00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:33,520 Speaker 1: on its fragile northeastern border, so everything they do is 415 00:31:33,760 --> 00:31:36,680 Speaker 1: with that in mind. There had been signs for many 416 00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:39,320 Speaker 1: years that they had been cultivating Kim jong Nam and 417 00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:41,840 Speaker 1: kind of keeping him in reserve in case they needed 418 00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:47,840 Speaker 1: to install and China friendly new leader of North Korea. 419 00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:52,040 Speaker 1: Why Kim jong Nam and not his uncle Chang Zong 420 00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:56,440 Speaker 1: Tech the country's number two. Because he comes from the 421 00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:59,880 Speaker 1: Kim family, he has that mythical pek Do blood coursing 422 00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:02,960 Speaker 1: through his veins, so it's something that could be easily 423 00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:06,640 Speaker 1: sold to the North Korean people. But nobody is certain 424 00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:09,600 Speaker 1: if China was protecting Kim jong Nam because he was 425 00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:13,800 Speaker 1: a fallback option. It's possible that his father was in 426 00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:19,040 Speaker 1: fact paying for the security detail, but soon his father 427 00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:25,320 Speaker 1: would be out of the picture, and that's when everything changed. 428 00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:32,600 Speaker 1: After his interview with Kim jong Nam, Comey watched his 429 00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:36,760 Speaker 1: email for some kind of acknowledgement from his subject. It 430 00:32:36,800 --> 00:32:39,120 Speaker 1: had only been a few days since the article came out, 431 00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:43,000 Speaker 1: but the silence of his inbox made him anxious. Had 432 00:32:43,040 --> 00:32:49,560 Speaker 1: the flood of friendly messages stopped then good evening. The 433 00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:53,360 Speaker 1: stories printed in the Tokyo Shimbun last month. In the 434 00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:57,120 Speaker 1: second of this month may have aggravated North Korea. I 435 00:32:57,280 --> 00:33:01,320 Speaker 1: received this sort of warning from them. Please hold off 436 00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:04,320 Speaker 1: on publishing all other articles for the time being. I 437 00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:10,760 Speaker 1: hope you understand. In another more ominous email, he followed up, 438 00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:16,720 Speaker 1: I just have to be careful and patient. The exchanges 439 00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:21,840 Speaker 1: would continue, but Kim jong nam sprawling tirades against the 440 00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:27,400 Speaker 1: regime transformed into terse one or two sentence replies, so 441 00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:31,280 Speaker 1: Comey changes tactics. The men found other things to talk about. 442 00:33:32,240 --> 00:33:36,640 Speaker 1: When a tsunami struct Japan in eleven, destroying the Fukushimi 443 00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:40,280 Speaker 1: Daichi Nuclear power plant, Kim jong Nam sent a message 444 00:33:40,280 --> 00:33:44,280 Speaker 1: of sympathy. I'd like to express my deepest condolences to 445 00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:47,840 Speaker 1: the disaster victims in your country. The middle aged men 446 00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:50,640 Speaker 1: went on to complain to each other about gout and 447 00:33:50,720 --> 00:33:54,400 Speaker 1: beer bloat. They talked about the risks of nuclear power plants, 448 00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:58,640 Speaker 1: Fukushima still weighing heavily on their minds, with Chong Nam 449 00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:03,640 Speaker 1: opining we must protect the planet's ecosystem. After a month 450 00:34:03,680 --> 00:34:08,840 Speaker 1: of idle chit chat, the conversation swung back to North Korea, 451 00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:12,560 Speaker 1: with Kim jong Nam opening up about his relationship with 452 00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:16,920 Speaker 1: his father. The media paint my father is a fearful dictator. 453 00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:20,279 Speaker 1: I feel quite bitter about this. Apart from the fact 454 00:34:20,280 --> 00:34:22,720 Speaker 1: that he's the head of a nation. I only remember 455 00:34:22,840 --> 00:34:26,680 Speaker 1: him as a very affectionate person, though he was sometimes strict. 456 00:34:27,560 --> 00:34:31,440 Speaker 1: Week by week, Kim jong Nam became more of his 457 00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:35,560 Speaker 1: old self again. It's unclear if the threats had ended, 458 00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:38,400 Speaker 1: or if he called their bluff, or if he simply 459 00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:43,200 Speaker 1: let his guard down. Regardless, he went on to express 460 00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:47,480 Speaker 1: dangerous criticisms that would get most people thrown in a 461 00:34:47,520 --> 00:34:53,960 Speaker 1: gulag or worse killed. He called himself a capitalistic young 462 00:34:54,040 --> 00:34:58,400 Speaker 1: man and talked about how he had betrayed his father's expectations. 463 00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:02,720 Speaker 1: He contemp played at a future where his brother remained 464 00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:05,960 Speaker 1: just as stubborn as his father. If my brother is 465 00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:10,440 Speaker 1: against the idea of reforms and liberalization, I would like 466 00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:13,840 Speaker 1: to question his thoughts and plans for the future of 467 00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:19,640 Speaker 1: North Korea. Comey kept the conversation moving, but he wasn't 468 00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:23,720 Speaker 1: satisfied with emails. He wanted another face to face meeting, 469 00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:28,799 Speaker 1: and after months of cajoling, he convinced Kim Jong Nam 470 00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:34,040 Speaker 1: to agree to a second interview in Beijing, but this 471 00:35:34,120 --> 00:35:39,320 Speaker 1: time would be different. Comey and Kim Jong Nam never 472 00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:43,720 Speaker 1: set a time or date, so Comey arrived in China 473 00:35:44,360 --> 00:35:48,600 Speaker 1: and patiently waited for directions from his subject. One day 474 00:35:48,680 --> 00:35:56,839 Speaker 1: passed nothing, then another still nothing. Comey sent email after 475 00:35:56,960 --> 00:36:02,360 Speaker 1: frantic email, but received no replies. Homey thought he was 476 00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:06,400 Speaker 1: being stood up. By a North Korean prince. On the 477 00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:10,920 Speaker 1: day before his return flight, A disappointed called me gave up. 478 00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:15,160 Speaker 1: He decided to visit some friends and go out to dinner. 479 00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:20,160 Speaker 1: He ate seafood and drank wine. He laughed and tried 480 00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:24,279 Speaker 1: for a few hours to forget about the meeting and 481 00:36:24,360 --> 00:36:29,399 Speaker 1: the big story he had just lost. And then at 482 00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:33,120 Speaker 1: ten pm he looked at his phone. There were five 483 00:36:33,239 --> 00:36:39,440 Speaker 1: missed calls, all from a Macau area code. Comey's heart raced. 484 00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:43,120 Speaker 1: He called the number back but could barely hear. The 485 00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:46,320 Speaker 1: noise was distorted. It sounded like there was a crowd 486 00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:49,600 Speaker 1: in the background, but he could recognize the faint voice 487 00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:53,000 Speaker 1: on the other line. It was Kim Jong Numb and 488 00:36:53,120 --> 00:36:57,360 Speaker 1: he wanted to meet Comey jotted down the address. It 489 00:36:57,480 --> 00:37:01,200 Speaker 1: was for a swanky Beijing hotel. He grabbed his coat 490 00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:03,879 Speaker 1: and his bag, rushed out of the restaurant, and dove 491 00:37:03,960 --> 00:37:07,120 Speaker 1: into a taxi. At one in the morning, he hurried 492 00:37:07,160 --> 00:37:10,880 Speaker 1: into the hotel, entered an extravagant elevator, and pressed the 493 00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:16,200 Speaker 1: button for the top floor. When he stepped off, he 494 00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:19,719 Speaker 1: entered a world of luxury and opulence, A room with 495 00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:25,239 Speaker 1: high ceilings, deep mahogany fixtures and gilded details, the kind 496 00:37:25,280 --> 00:37:28,920 Speaker 1: of place where bartenders and tuxedos served fine liquors to 497 00:37:29,120 --> 00:37:33,960 Speaker 1: elegantly dressed patrons who all spoke in hushed tones. At 498 00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:38,520 Speaker 1: the corner of the bar amid all this wealth sat 499 00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:42,879 Speaker 1: a man in a baseball cap. It was Kim jong Nam. 500 00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:46,720 Speaker 1: Hell he made it after all come He doesn't recall 501 00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:50,560 Speaker 1: how long the two talked. He never recorded what they said. 502 00:37:52,040 --> 00:37:55,120 Speaker 1: The two men did not speak as journalists and subjects. 503 00:37:55,520 --> 00:38:00,760 Speaker 1: They talked off the record, this time as friends into whiskey. 504 00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:05,480 Speaker 1: According to Comey, Kim jong Nam ordered glass after glass 505 00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:09,719 Speaker 1: of high end whiskey. Each time he pulled out a 506 00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:12,640 Speaker 1: pocket full of a hundred yuan notes and paid the waiter. 507 00:38:13,920 --> 00:38:18,200 Speaker 1: As the night will on, Kim jong Nam turned solemn. 508 00:38:19,719 --> 00:38:24,120 Speaker 1: He cradled his glass and stared forlornly at the amber liquid. 509 00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:31,320 Speaker 1: Do you think things will be different? Nothing will change, 510 00:38:32,560 --> 00:38:37,360 Speaker 1: It's impossible to make change happen. He reached again into 511 00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:42,000 Speaker 1: his pocket. Money spilled onto the floor. Kim jong Nam 512 00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:44,600 Speaker 1: looked at it for a moment and let it sit. 513 00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:52,920 Speaker 1: He never picked it up. For the next seven months, 514 00:38:53,320 --> 00:38:57,400 Speaker 1: Kim jong Nam and Yoji called me kept emailing and 515 00:38:57,480 --> 00:39:03,440 Speaker 1: in December of the dear leader Kim Jong il would 516 00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:09,359 Speaker 1: die A few days later. Homie offered his condolences and 517 00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:12,280 Speaker 1: asked if he could turn their emails into a book. 518 00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:17,319 Speaker 1: He promised not to publish anything inflammatory, but Kim Jong 519 00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:21,320 Speaker 1: Nam hesitated. We remain in mourning for a hundred days 520 00:39:21,320 --> 00:39:24,600 Speaker 1: in North Korea. It will not be advantageous for me 521 00:39:24,640 --> 00:39:28,240 Speaker 1: if any new information comes out during that period. Please 522 00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:32,880 Speaker 1: understand the North Korean regime might attempt to inflict something 523 00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:36,319 Speaker 1: to put me in harm's way. But even though he 524 00:39:36,400 --> 00:39:39,920 Speaker 1: knew he was at risk, Kim Jong Nam couldn't resist 525 00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:44,160 Speaker 1: getting something off his chest. As a matter of common sense, 526 00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:48,960 Speaker 1: a power transferred to the third generation is utterly unacceptable. 527 00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:53,000 Speaker 1: How can a young successor with only two years of 528 00:39:53,080 --> 00:39:56,560 Speaker 1: grooming take over a system of absolute power that has 529 00:39:56,600 --> 00:40:01,239 Speaker 1: sustained for the last thirty seven years. I suspect the 530 00:40:01,239 --> 00:40:04,040 Speaker 1: power leads that have ruled the country will continue to 531 00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:07,200 Speaker 1: be in control while upholding the young successor as a 532 00:40:07,320 --> 00:40:12,840 Speaker 1: mere figurehead. I'm sure you'll be hearing a lot of 533 00:40:12,880 --> 00:40:15,719 Speaker 1: fiction writing or rumors about me, as well as what 534 00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:19,640 Speaker 1: may or may not happen to North Korea's future. I 535 00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:27,560 Speaker 1: wish you and your family's good health, respectfully, Kim jong Nam. 536 00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:30,239 Speaker 1: It's unclear if Comey would ever hear from Kim jong 537 00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:33,600 Speaker 1: Nam again. All we know is that he did what 538 00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:40,120 Speaker 1: any journalists would do. He published, and soon Kim jong 539 00:40:40,200 --> 00:40:44,120 Speaker 1: Nam would be writing letters to his brother asking him 540 00:40:44,120 --> 00:40:52,320 Speaker 1: to please spare his life. I'm the next Big Brother. 541 00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:57,760 Speaker 1: The theories about what killed Kim jong Nam get complicated 542 00:40:57,760 --> 00:41:03,000 Speaker 1: by money, technology, and the beloved relative who becomes a 543 00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:14,880 Speaker 1: canary in the coal mine for the exiled prince. Big 544 00:41:14,920 --> 00:41:17,239 Speaker 1: Brother is the production of School of Humans and I 545 00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:22,120 Speaker 1: Heart Radio and hosted by me Even Lee. Lucas Riley 546 00:41:22,239 --> 00:41:26,279 Speaker 1: is our writer, co director and associate producer. Amelia Brock 547 00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:30,840 Speaker 1: is our senior producer, co director and editor. Executive producers 548 00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:35,160 Speaker 1: are Virginia Prescott, Brandon Barr, L. C. Crowley, and Jason English. 549 00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:40,040 Speaker 1: Our fact checker is Aaron Blakemore. Music composed by Jason 550 00:41:40,120 --> 00:41:45,040 Speaker 1: Todd Shannon and Tune Waters. Original score mixed by Vick Stafford. 551 00:41:45,560 --> 00:41:47,960 Speaker 1: The bar scene piano rendition of the Big Brother theme 552 00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:51,399 Speaker 1: song was performed by Lucas Riley, Audio editing by Jesse 553 00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:55,600 Speaker 1: nice Swanger, sound design and mixed by Harper W. Harris, 554 00:41:56,360 --> 00:42:00,640 Speaker 1: Audio correction by Josh Fisher, Voice acting by Mark Chung, 555 00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:06,480 Speaker 1: Sean mckeek, Mike Coscarelli, Katie Wong, Jason Todd Shannon, and 556 00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:10,640 Speaker 1: Amelia Brock. Special thanks to Ryan Murdoch and Will Pearson. 557 00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:15,880 Speaker 1: Sound licensed from the Associated Press. A special acknowledgement to 558 00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:19,759 Speaker 1: the reporting of Yoji Komi and his book My Father 559 00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:23,759 Speaker 1: Kim Jong Il and I, published by Pung Sunju. If 560 00:42:23,760 --> 00:42:26,600 Speaker 1: you're enjoying the podcast, help us get the word out 561 00:42:26,640 --> 00:42:30,480 Speaker 1: by leaving a rating in your favorite podcast app. Until 562 00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:37,280 Speaker 1: next time, I'm even Lee School of Humans.