1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,320 Speaker 1: Will Lucas here Black Tech, Green Money. So good to 2 00:00:02,320 --> 00:00:05,080 Speaker 1: be with you guys for another episode, and I have 3 00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:07,080 Speaker 1: one that I've been looking forward to for a while. 4 00:00:07,080 --> 00:00:08,560 Speaker 2: We haven't talked to any vcas in. 5 00:00:08,560 --> 00:00:12,239 Speaker 1: A while, people who are writing checks, and today we 6 00:00:12,280 --> 00:00:15,760 Speaker 1: get an opportunity to do that. With the Black Operator 7 00:00:15,880 --> 00:00:20,279 Speaker 1: Ventures Black Ops crew. We have Sean Green general partner 8 00:00:20,360 --> 00:00:24,680 Speaker 1: and James Norman managing partner, and so I'm so excited 9 00:00:24,680 --> 00:00:26,279 Speaker 1: to talk to both of you guys because you've been 10 00:00:26,320 --> 00:00:28,479 Speaker 1: founders before and so you know what it's like to 11 00:00:28,560 --> 00:00:31,440 Speaker 1: be on the other side of the table asking for money, 12 00:00:31,760 --> 00:00:34,080 Speaker 1: and so now today you're cutting checks, and so because 13 00:00:34,120 --> 00:00:38,879 Speaker 1: you both built and exited companies, I'm gonna start with you, James, like, 14 00:00:38,880 --> 00:00:43,680 Speaker 1: what did you see from inside the company operations that 15 00:00:43,720 --> 00:00:48,920 Speaker 1: most traditional vcs who haven't run businesses fundamentally might misunderstand 16 00:00:49,159 --> 00:00:50,639 Speaker 1: about early stage execution. 17 00:00:51,760 --> 00:00:53,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean just set the record, like me and 18 00:00:53,800 --> 00:00:58,319 Speaker 3: Sean still run companies, so we're doing both. You know, 19 00:00:58,440 --> 00:01:00,920 Speaker 3: we've got our wins and you know we've had our 20 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:03,800 Speaker 3: scars so that we keep we keep moving. But I 21 00:01:03,840 --> 00:01:07,800 Speaker 3: would say, you know, there are other operating venture capitalists 22 00:01:07,840 --> 00:01:10,720 Speaker 3: out there, but like as far as the ones that 23 00:01:10,760 --> 00:01:14,680 Speaker 3: look like us, that invest in people like us, Uh, 24 00:01:14,959 --> 00:01:17,280 Speaker 3: they've they've not seen the experience of what it's like 25 00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:21,240 Speaker 3: to to not close on capital and to kind of 26 00:01:21,240 --> 00:01:23,480 Speaker 3: still scale a company and get to the next phase 27 00:01:23,520 --> 00:01:24,360 Speaker 3: and what that means for the. 28 00:01:24,360 --> 00:01:25,280 Speaker 4: Company in the long term. 29 00:01:25,360 --> 00:01:29,720 Speaker 3: So just like the the thing I learned from being 30 00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:32,560 Speaker 3: on the inside of the company is like, what type 31 00:01:32,560 --> 00:01:33,280 Speaker 3: of company is this? 32 00:01:33,480 --> 00:01:36,120 Speaker 4: Is it venture backable? You know, what does it look like? 33 00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:36,840 Speaker 4: Don't raise money? 34 00:01:37,000 --> 00:01:40,000 Speaker 3: Is the founder going through to get to the ending 35 00:01:40,040 --> 00:01:43,280 Speaker 3: game with that money? What's that process? It's a sales 36 00:01:43,319 --> 00:01:46,880 Speaker 3: process essentially, you know, like how many no's are they getting? 37 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:52,080 Speaker 3: It gives for us, it allows us to educate people 38 00:01:52,080 --> 00:01:54,880 Speaker 3: on what it takes to get it done, but also 39 00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:57,800 Speaker 3: just like to have grace for people in certain situations 40 00:01:57,800 --> 00:02:00,280 Speaker 3: where we know what they're going through, because it can 41 00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:05,120 Speaker 3: be overwhelming to go through selly five know's and and 42 00:02:05,320 --> 00:02:07,160 Speaker 3: also just walk through the world as people who are 43 00:02:07,240 --> 00:02:10,080 Speaker 3: like us. So it gives us a different understanding of 44 00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:12,359 Speaker 3: the people who come to us what took for them 45 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:13,560 Speaker 3: to get to that conversation. 46 00:02:14,280 --> 00:02:15,400 Speaker 4: We have respect for that. 47 00:02:17,560 --> 00:02:21,519 Speaker 3: Then from there just also understanding, like from the investors 48 00:02:21,520 --> 00:02:26,280 Speaker 3: side understanding the storytelling that goes into this, Like there's 49 00:02:26,680 --> 00:02:30,360 Speaker 3: when you present something the shear the sheer mechanics of 50 00:02:30,400 --> 00:02:33,400 Speaker 3: how business works is not what's selling anybody in your 51 00:02:33,400 --> 00:02:35,760 Speaker 3: pre seed or seed company. And I think once you 52 00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:38,480 Speaker 3: entered the investors side, you get a big grader appreciation 53 00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:40,920 Speaker 3: for that because hopefully every person that's coming to you 54 00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:43,480 Speaker 3: was telling you something about a business that's working. So 55 00:02:43,720 --> 00:02:46,360 Speaker 3: you yourself will be excited that she made one hundred k 56 00:02:46,520 --> 00:02:48,320 Speaker 3: or you made five hundred K this past year with 57 00:02:48,360 --> 00:02:50,760 Speaker 3: this product that wasn't making anything more, it didn't exist. 58 00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:54,400 Speaker 3: But for an investor, it's like everybody's making five hundred kay, 59 00:02:54,680 --> 00:02:57,400 Speaker 3: So that's actually not even that's that's the baseline for 60 00:02:57,480 --> 00:03:00,000 Speaker 3: us to be having this conversation. So that's not actual point. 61 00:03:00,160 --> 00:03:02,720 Speaker 3: That's they treating parbo what you're doing. So you know, 62 00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:07,320 Speaker 3: there's learnings on both sides. As the founder, I just think, uh, 63 00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:10,920 Speaker 3: I just remember was like going to raise money, people 64 00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:12,520 Speaker 3: telling you they're gonna give you money and not give 65 00:03:12,560 --> 00:03:14,680 Speaker 3: you the money and blowing up your round like all 66 00:03:14,720 --> 00:03:17,120 Speaker 3: the things that vcs do that they think are trivial 67 00:03:17,160 --> 00:03:19,560 Speaker 3: because they're getting paycheck anyways, that just destroy the whole 68 00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:22,440 Speaker 3: life and like stuff we would just never do because 69 00:03:22,440 --> 00:03:24,440 Speaker 3: we have too much respect for what's going on other 70 00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:26,320 Speaker 3: side of the table. Yeah. 71 00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:29,440 Speaker 1: I want to kind of jump back on something you 72 00:03:29,520 --> 00:03:31,920 Speaker 1: just said there and throw it to you. 73 00:03:32,040 --> 00:03:32,359 Speaker 2: Sean. 74 00:03:32,960 --> 00:03:36,760 Speaker 1: It is he said, like everybody's making five hundred K. 75 00:03:36,880 --> 00:03:39,280 Speaker 1: And I don't want to like blow past that, because 76 00:03:39,320 --> 00:03:41,760 Speaker 1: there's five hundred k's a lot of money for a 77 00:03:41,800 --> 00:03:45,840 Speaker 1: lot of businesses. But I want to just pretty much 78 00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:47,760 Speaker 1: stick on this point of like what's VC. 79 00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:49,920 Speaker 2: Uh, what's a VC. 80 00:03:49,880 --> 00:03:53,640 Speaker 1: Business and what's a small business? And like the differences 81 00:03:53,720 --> 00:03:55,640 Speaker 1: and what we think about. Oh yeah, of course my 82 00:03:55,720 --> 00:03:57,600 Speaker 1: business I want VC dollars, of course. 83 00:03:57,680 --> 00:03:57,960 Speaker 2: Yeah. 84 00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:01,160 Speaker 1: You know, but man, this is this is a small 85 00:04:01,200 --> 00:04:03,400 Speaker 1: business and it's probably not venture backgable. So can you 86 00:04:03,440 --> 00:04:06,360 Speaker 1: talk about like the the good thing that it is 87 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:08,440 Speaker 1: to be doing five hundred k in the right type 88 00:04:08,480 --> 00:04:09,080 Speaker 1: of business? 89 00:04:09,680 --> 00:04:13,360 Speaker 5: Mhm right right, Uh, And that's true. I mean, you 90 00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:16,160 Speaker 5: know everybody knows a good mom and pop shop where 91 00:04:16,160 --> 00:04:19,240 Speaker 5: they're baking cookies. Uh, you've got a new a new, 92 00:04:19,360 --> 00:04:22,919 Speaker 5: a new twist on you know, doing something with nails uh, 93 00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:25,200 Speaker 5: and that and that you know, there's a contingent of 94 00:04:25,240 --> 00:04:27,640 Speaker 5: women that you know would definitely purchase, you know, these 95 00:04:27,760 --> 00:04:31,359 Speaker 5: nails that are done by a particular artist. Right. And 96 00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:34,560 Speaker 5: then and then there's some technology businesses which which are great. 97 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:37,040 Speaker 5: You have a company called Constellation that that's a private 98 00:04:37,080 --> 00:04:40,520 Speaker 5: equity company that just invests in these niche spaces that 99 00:04:40,560 --> 00:04:43,039 Speaker 5: people are building software and it may not get to 100 00:04:43,120 --> 00:04:45,520 Speaker 5: that venture level scale, but they built it big enough 101 00:04:45,560 --> 00:04:47,760 Speaker 5: where it's doing half million, or it's doing you know, 102 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:52,880 Speaker 5: three million or five million. But in this arena, you know, 103 00:04:52,920 --> 00:04:57,520 Speaker 5: the venture capital arena, you people are building billion dollar businesses, right, 104 00:04:57,600 --> 00:04:59,640 Speaker 5: and so you've got to You've got to think with 105 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:02,520 Speaker 5: a differ mindset and before you even get in, you know, 106 00:05:02,640 --> 00:05:05,800 Speaker 5: does can my business even get there? Does it have 107 00:05:05,880 --> 00:05:09,320 Speaker 5: that tam that totally justable market? Do I have the 108 00:05:09,400 --> 00:05:11,919 Speaker 5: ability to scale there? Am I mentally prepared to be 109 00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:13,599 Speaker 5: able to do that? You know? Some people are just 110 00:05:13,720 --> 00:05:16,200 Speaker 5: built like, hey, I don't want my business to get 111 00:05:16,640 --> 00:05:19,280 Speaker 5: you know this big. You know, the if you look 112 00:05:19,279 --> 00:05:21,760 Speaker 5: at open open Claw I believe you know is what 113 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:25,920 Speaker 5: they call and that acquisition recently by open Ai. The 114 00:05:25,960 --> 00:05:28,920 Speaker 5: founder there said, look, I've been through the fire, I've 115 00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:31,520 Speaker 5: caught I've done the things I've built this, I don't 116 00:05:31,520 --> 00:05:35,240 Speaker 5: want to do that again. Right, So this opportunity that 117 00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:38,279 Speaker 5: came to me with Sam and open Ai is a 118 00:05:38,279 --> 00:05:40,960 Speaker 5: great one because now I can just you know, underneath 119 00:05:41,000 --> 00:05:42,400 Speaker 5: them and build. 120 00:05:42,839 --> 00:05:44,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, it gave my money just building work. 121 00:05:45,560 --> 00:05:48,760 Speaker 4: Right, Like a lot of people like building and working 122 00:05:49,440 --> 00:05:51,200 Speaker 4: like I like it. I'm a fan. 123 00:05:51,839 --> 00:05:54,359 Speaker 3: Like I'm not a fan of like feeling out the 124 00:05:54,360 --> 00:05:57,719 Speaker 3: feelings of hundreds of people and like navigating Like that's 125 00:05:57,760 --> 00:05:58,920 Speaker 3: not my sweet spot. 126 00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:05,720 Speaker 4: Like, you know, people don't realize the levels it takes to. 127 00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:08,279 Speaker 3: Do this at the highest level, Like the person you 128 00:06:08,320 --> 00:06:10,240 Speaker 3: are today cannot be the person who you are tomorrow. 129 00:06:10,240 --> 00:06:11,960 Speaker 3: If you want to build a billing dollar company, like 130 00:06:12,040 --> 00:06:15,240 Speaker 3: you must literally change yourself to be able to manage 131 00:06:15,279 --> 00:06:17,360 Speaker 3: like that scale of things. 132 00:06:17,920 --> 00:06:20,080 Speaker 1: Talk more about that, Like what does it mean when 133 00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:22,800 Speaker 1: you say the kind of person that you are today 134 00:06:22,920 --> 00:06:24,800 Speaker 1: is not the kind of person Because everybody thinks they 135 00:06:24,839 --> 00:06:27,200 Speaker 1: they might be the person who can build that unicorn. 136 00:06:27,880 --> 00:06:30,720 Speaker 3: I mean, nobody who's building a billion dollar companies at 137 00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:32,200 Speaker 3: the earliest stage is the person they need to be 138 00:06:32,200 --> 00:06:34,560 Speaker 3: the build building dollar company. They can have the company, 139 00:06:34,600 --> 00:06:37,480 Speaker 3: they can have, the idea, the energy. But as a human, 140 00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:39,520 Speaker 3: what it takes to get from zero to one is 141 00:06:39,560 --> 00:06:41,520 Speaker 3: not the same if from one or two. And so like, 142 00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:43,400 Speaker 3: I'm a type of guy who like if we said 143 00:06:43,400 --> 00:06:46,680 Speaker 3: somewhere to do something right, now I can materialize it. Right, 144 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:50,680 Speaker 3: that's step one making something actually existent people wanting to 145 00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:50,960 Speaker 3: have it. 146 00:06:51,080 --> 00:06:53,480 Speaker 4: Right. But once people want to have it, well. 147 00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:55,599 Speaker 3: Now we've got to figure out, all right, well, who's 148 00:06:55,600 --> 00:06:57,919 Speaker 3: gonna support this part of product, who's going to do 149 00:06:57,920 --> 00:07:02,000 Speaker 3: customer success? How can we sell this repeatably? Like how's 150 00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:04,960 Speaker 3: that repeat process? How do I exit that repeat process 151 00:07:04,960 --> 00:07:07,800 Speaker 3: over time? Because I can't be founder led sales forever. Right, 152 00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:10,160 Speaker 3: You'll start figuring these things out. And now you got 153 00:07:10,200 --> 00:07:11,320 Speaker 3: a bunch of people around you with a bunch of 154 00:07:11,320 --> 00:07:13,520 Speaker 3: different personalities, and now you have to make sure that 155 00:07:13,520 --> 00:07:15,560 Speaker 3: they're as motivated as you are to get a thing done. 156 00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:18,520 Speaker 3: And that requires you, depending on the type of person 157 00:07:18,560 --> 00:07:22,280 Speaker 3: you are, to develop. You know, different ways of thinking, 158 00:07:22,400 --> 00:07:24,600 Speaker 3: have a certain level of empathy. Like you know, my 159 00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:27,120 Speaker 3: level of empathy is not high in general, so I 160 00:07:27,160 --> 00:07:29,480 Speaker 3: have to there's a concerted effort that I make to 161 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:31,640 Speaker 3: try and hear what people are saying, so I can 162 00:07:31,680 --> 00:07:34,080 Speaker 3: try and be in their shoes and give them a 163 00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:36,520 Speaker 3: response that truly fits the energy that they brought to 164 00:07:36,560 --> 00:07:38,720 Speaker 3: the conversation. That's an effort I have to make is 165 00:07:38,760 --> 00:07:40,760 Speaker 3: who I am, right, But if you talk to me 166 00:07:40,800 --> 00:07:43,360 Speaker 3: when I started the company, not only was that irrelevant, 167 00:07:43,360 --> 00:07:45,960 Speaker 3: but I didn't do it right because going to zero 168 00:07:46,040 --> 00:07:48,680 Speaker 3: to one, I don't care what anybody's doing it going 169 00:07:48,760 --> 00:07:52,520 Speaker 3: zero to one. But now it's a ship, right now, 170 00:07:52,520 --> 00:07:55,000 Speaker 3: we got a ship. Now we got a ship. Next 171 00:07:55,040 --> 00:07:57,040 Speaker 3: thing you know is a cruise liner. Now I got 172 00:07:57,080 --> 00:07:58,920 Speaker 3: a cruise liner. I got a walk around cruise liner. 173 00:07:58,960 --> 00:08:01,960 Speaker 3: Make sure everybody running the engine room, people's running the restaurant. 174 00:08:02,440 --> 00:08:03,920 Speaker 4: Hey man, you got this over there? Did you get 175 00:08:03,960 --> 00:08:06,320 Speaker 4: the tickets? Does that person even belong on the boat? Like? 176 00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:09,720 Speaker 4: Next thing you know, like you running the fleet. Right, 177 00:08:09,880 --> 00:08:11,120 Speaker 4: These are different. 178 00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:16,040 Speaker 3: Jobs, right, And once you get past these steps, when 179 00:08:16,040 --> 00:08:18,280 Speaker 3: you start getting into the I'm running a cruise liner, 180 00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:21,320 Speaker 3: you've got people who run the cruise line company like 181 00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:24,000 Speaker 3: you run the company. Basically you own your ownership and 182 00:08:24,040 --> 00:08:28,040 Speaker 3: all that. But most most times, very few times do 183 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:29,400 Speaker 3: you have the leverage where you're not going to have 184 00:08:29,400 --> 00:08:33,400 Speaker 3: a board where like you're either fifty to fifty or 185 00:08:33,559 --> 00:08:36,480 Speaker 3: they have leverage on you, right, and you do need 186 00:08:36,520 --> 00:08:38,760 Speaker 3: to deliver to them, like what's the report where we 187 00:08:38,920 --> 00:08:42,360 Speaker 3: at be strategic? And your job now is to not 188 00:08:42,400 --> 00:08:45,080 Speaker 3: only manage that thing, but manach upward up too. And 189 00:08:45,160 --> 00:08:47,000 Speaker 3: these are just things that people don't think about when 190 00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:50,280 Speaker 3: you think about going viser scale. It's a lot of work. 191 00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:52,760 Speaker 3: That's why everybody you see it does this. They got 192 00:08:52,760 --> 00:08:58,200 Speaker 3: gray hair way before it. Yeah, I mean years over here, you. 193 00:08:58,240 --> 00:09:00,000 Speaker 2: Know, I want you to. 194 00:09:00,320 --> 00:09:04,040 Speaker 1: I'm gonna go one more step in this direction on 195 00:09:04,400 --> 00:09:07,080 Speaker 1: being venture bacable and a lot of people think you 196 00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:11,120 Speaker 1: know that. Yeah, it may not be a billion dollar business, 197 00:09:11,160 --> 00:09:13,800 Speaker 1: but I still you know, have a great company and 198 00:09:13,840 --> 00:09:17,720 Speaker 1: it's still worthy of some investment. Can you talk about 199 00:09:18,160 --> 00:09:21,719 Speaker 1: the math and why do you know small checks in 200 00:09:21,840 --> 00:09:25,400 Speaker 1: small companies relative to what you need in the VC 201 00:09:26,400 --> 00:09:30,520 Speaker 1: the numbers just don't work for the firm. Can you 202 00:09:30,559 --> 00:09:33,520 Speaker 1: talk about the math and taking the emotion out of 203 00:09:33,559 --> 00:09:35,120 Speaker 1: it and taking the people? Yeah, I love you, I 204 00:09:35,160 --> 00:09:37,520 Speaker 1: want to support you, but the math doesn't work because 205 00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:39,640 Speaker 1: what I'm gonna get out of a return, even the 206 00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:42,640 Speaker 1: positive exit, is not gonna make my around. 207 00:09:42,800 --> 00:09:46,840 Speaker 2: Can you talk about that? Yeah, either one of you 208 00:09:46,880 --> 00:09:47,160 Speaker 2: take that on. 209 00:09:47,880 --> 00:09:48,760 Speaker 4: You want to take a shown. 210 00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:52,560 Speaker 5: Yeah. So you know when you think about how when 211 00:09:52,600 --> 00:09:55,280 Speaker 5: you think about your company, there's only one hundred points. 212 00:09:55,480 --> 00:09:58,600 Speaker 5: You know in your company, right, there's there's no more 213 00:09:58,640 --> 00:10:01,560 Speaker 5: than a hundred. You know, people you talk in general, 214 00:10:01,559 --> 00:10:03,760 Speaker 5: they're like, yo, I'm going to give it one thousand 215 00:10:03,880 --> 00:10:06,600 Speaker 5: of my effort. You know, you give one hundred. That's 216 00:10:06,640 --> 00:10:09,480 Speaker 5: all you have one hundred points. And when you think 217 00:10:09,480 --> 00:10:12,599 Speaker 5: about each round that you that you're giving up, you know, 218 00:10:12,679 --> 00:10:15,800 Speaker 5: it's anywhere between you know, ten to twenty five percent. 219 00:10:16,120 --> 00:10:18,560 Speaker 5: You know, on the lower end, I means you don't 220 00:10:18,559 --> 00:10:21,080 Speaker 5: have as much to show. Sorry. On the lower end 221 00:10:21,080 --> 00:10:22,840 Speaker 5: means you have a lot more to show, you know, 222 00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:26,079 Speaker 5: your business is proving things. On the higher end, you're 223 00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:28,160 Speaker 5: still trying to work things out and figure it out. 224 00:10:28,520 --> 00:10:31,679 Speaker 5: And what's important is you when you need to go 225 00:10:31,880 --> 00:10:35,000 Speaker 5: to these these venture capitalists to be able to get 226 00:10:35,040 --> 00:10:37,839 Speaker 5: capital in your business, they have to return money back 227 00:10:37,880 --> 00:10:40,079 Speaker 5: to their LPs, and so they have to make a 228 00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:43,360 Speaker 5: certain percentage off of you know what what you're doing 229 00:10:43,520 --> 00:10:46,200 Speaker 5: with your fundraise. Uh, and they've got to be able 230 00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:48,880 Speaker 5: to hit their numbers. Now, if you if you go 231 00:10:48,920 --> 00:10:51,160 Speaker 5: at it and say okay, well, I'm I want to 232 00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:53,679 Speaker 5: build this business today and I wanted to I want 233 00:10:53,679 --> 00:10:57,240 Speaker 5: to build a ten million dollar business. Well, if you 234 00:10:57,280 --> 00:11:01,440 Speaker 5: look at the multiples on that, you know, SaaS businesses 235 00:11:01,480 --> 00:11:04,520 Speaker 5: get anywhere between you know, eight eight to you know, 236 00:11:04,679 --> 00:11:09,040 Speaker 5: fifteen multiples sometimes and when it's super frothy, twenty plus multiples. Right, 237 00:11:09,120 --> 00:11:12,679 Speaker 5: so you're talking you can get into that eighty to 238 00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:14,840 Speaker 5: you know, one hundred and one hundred and twenty one 239 00:11:14,880 --> 00:11:17,800 Speaker 5: hundred and thirty million dollar range. That's not good enough 240 00:11:18,280 --> 00:11:20,840 Speaker 5: for some for what these venture returns need to look like. 241 00:11:21,400 --> 00:11:23,440 Speaker 5: You know, you're talking about building a billion dollar business, 242 00:11:23,440 --> 00:11:25,800 Speaker 5: which means you've got to be doing one hundred million 243 00:11:25,840 --> 00:11:30,440 Speaker 5: dollars in annual recurring revenue to hit these outcomes. You 244 00:11:30,520 --> 00:11:33,320 Speaker 5: hear people talk about fund returners. You know, you want 245 00:11:33,320 --> 00:11:36,360 Speaker 5: to be a fund returner in their portfolio as a founder. 246 00:11:36,559 --> 00:11:38,960 Speaker 5: Can you do that by building a mom and pop 247 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:41,600 Speaker 5: five million or ten million dollar business. It's not possible 248 00:11:41,720 --> 00:11:43,319 Speaker 5: to be able to do that. You're not going to 249 00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:45,320 Speaker 5: hit the numbers that they need, which is why they're 250 00:11:45,320 --> 00:11:47,480 Speaker 5: going to give you that. No, a lot of people 251 00:11:47,480 --> 00:11:51,319 Speaker 5: don't understand, well, hey, I've got a million dollars or 252 00:11:51,440 --> 00:11:54,080 Speaker 5: three million dollars, and I can see this to fifty 253 00:11:54,160 --> 00:11:57,199 Speaker 5: million dollars. In some cases, that's not going to be enough. 254 00:11:57,320 --> 00:11:59,200 Speaker 5: There's going to be some people who will commit to 255 00:11:59,200 --> 00:12:02,079 Speaker 5: you because in some cases and in most cases, it's 256 00:12:02,080 --> 00:12:04,760 Speaker 5: not gonna be enough. And bear in mind, only about 257 00:12:04,800 --> 00:12:07,719 Speaker 5: five percent of these businesses get there, right, got to 258 00:12:07,760 --> 00:12:08,200 Speaker 5: think about that. 259 00:12:10,120 --> 00:12:13,280 Speaker 3: Let's let's also like just breaking down the quantitative side 260 00:12:13,320 --> 00:12:16,640 Speaker 3: of that, Like, you know, the five percent he's talking about, 261 00:12:16,679 --> 00:12:18,160 Speaker 3: only five percent of these business is gonna be over 262 00:12:18,240 --> 00:12:19,839 Speaker 3: five million dollars you need to build if you made 263 00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:22,280 Speaker 3: a business or five million dollars, Like pat yourself on 264 00:12:22,320 --> 00:12:25,280 Speaker 3: the back, Like that's a that's a top five percent situation. 265 00:12:25,840 --> 00:12:27,800 Speaker 3: But the people who's building billion dollar companies, that's a 266 00:12:27,880 --> 00:12:31,560 Speaker 3: point one percent situation. Like it's like I'll never forget. 267 00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:34,520 Speaker 3: When my man Mike Cybele, uh, you know, a bunch 268 00:12:34,520 --> 00:12:35,640 Speaker 3: of people in the room, he's like, who are here? 269 00:12:35,679 --> 00:12:38,319 Speaker 3: Thought they were gonna be in the NFL or NBA 270 00:12:38,559 --> 00:12:41,600 Speaker 3: or whatever. Bunch people raise their hand and he's like, 271 00:12:41,920 --> 00:12:43,640 Speaker 3: check us out. There's like four hundred and some people 272 00:12:43,640 --> 00:12:47,319 Speaker 3: in NBA. There's you know, for some people in the NFL. 273 00:12:47,760 --> 00:12:51,240 Speaker 3: He's like, it's way harder to get a billion dollar 274 00:12:51,280 --> 00:12:53,520 Speaker 3: company than getting into the NBA or NFL. It's not 275 00:12:53,520 --> 00:12:56,719 Speaker 3: even comparison like statistically, you know, it's like this is 276 00:12:56,760 --> 00:12:58,520 Speaker 3: a game that you can bet you're gonna lose, and 277 00:12:58,520 --> 00:13:01,120 Speaker 3: you gotta keep trying to keep winning. Very few people 278 00:13:01,120 --> 00:13:03,960 Speaker 3: win the first time. And so when you have if 279 00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:06,600 Speaker 3: you say, like he said, ten million dollars in revenue, 280 00:13:06,600 --> 00:13:09,560 Speaker 3: get a hardre dollar evaluation. But that took two or 281 00:13:09,559 --> 00:13:12,079 Speaker 3: three rounds of funding of taking ten or twenty percent 282 00:13:12,120 --> 00:13:14,839 Speaker 3: of the company. The person who put in that early money, 283 00:13:15,320 --> 00:13:18,440 Speaker 3: they put in a million dollars or whatever, Well, their 284 00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:22,360 Speaker 3: ownership was twenty percent, but now after two rounds of 285 00:13:22,360 --> 00:13:23,680 Speaker 3: funding in their ownership is ten percent. 286 00:13:24,280 --> 00:13:25,880 Speaker 4: Right, so they put. 287 00:13:25,760 --> 00:13:28,440 Speaker 3: In a million, now got a hard million dollar value 288 00:13:28,440 --> 00:13:30,960 Speaker 3: on the exit, you know, keeping a very basic simple 289 00:13:31,080 --> 00:13:33,800 Speaker 3: certain people didn't have a certain life, you know, like 290 00:13:33,840 --> 00:13:38,839 Speaker 3: a return on things like they they will then get 291 00:13:38,840 --> 00:13:41,960 Speaker 3: ten million dollars back. Right, that's a ten x not 292 00:13:42,040 --> 00:13:44,839 Speaker 3: a bad move. But like it was a fifty million 293 00:13:44,880 --> 00:13:47,480 Speaker 3: dollar fund, you moved need a little bit. It wasn't 294 00:13:47,520 --> 00:13:52,000 Speaker 3: a bad situation. But the problem is is that in general, 295 00:13:52,080 --> 00:13:54,720 Speaker 3: this might shift over time, but historically it's been about 296 00:13:54,760 --> 00:13:58,160 Speaker 3: power law, which means one or two companies your portfolio 297 00:13:58,720 --> 00:14:01,640 Speaker 3: returned the fund multiple time times over. That's the game 298 00:14:01,720 --> 00:14:04,880 Speaker 3: that ventures playing. So if I get one that tenex 299 00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:07,920 Speaker 3: is me ten realion ain't bad, but that means like 300 00:14:08,160 --> 00:14:10,360 Speaker 3: if that was one of my ones and I get 301 00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:13,040 Speaker 3: like twenty bad ones and now I got one, like. 302 00:14:13,280 --> 00:14:13,720 Speaker 4: You just can't. 303 00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:17,160 Speaker 3: You can't double up the fun Yeah, right, so you 304 00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:21,800 Speaker 3: need ten percent of multi billion, right, and now I'm 305 00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:23,840 Speaker 3: returning the fun And now if I get two of 306 00:14:23,840 --> 00:14:26,840 Speaker 3: them joints, I did what I was supposed to do. Yeah. Yeah, 307 00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:29,840 Speaker 3: So you know, we think about it a little bit differently. 308 00:14:29,880 --> 00:14:31,800 Speaker 3: We aim to have a higher hit rate based on 309 00:14:32,000 --> 00:14:35,440 Speaker 3: like you can just seetfolio development and how things move. 310 00:14:35,560 --> 00:14:38,040 Speaker 3: But in general, that's the game, and that's why people 311 00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:39,920 Speaker 3: can't play the game of one hundred million dollar exit. 312 00:14:40,600 --> 00:14:42,400 Speaker 1: For the people who are listening to this and they're 313 00:14:42,400 --> 00:14:45,120 Speaker 1: still saying, yeah, but I still want to talk to you, 314 00:14:45,320 --> 00:14:47,920 Speaker 1: and I'm probably going to exit at you know, ten 315 00:14:47,960 --> 00:14:48,800 Speaker 1: million or whatever. 316 00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:55,200 Speaker 2: Is there any is there any logic in kind of like. 317 00:14:55,240 --> 00:15:00,360 Speaker 1: The moneyball game to where yeah, you might have your 318 00:15:00,480 --> 00:15:03,560 Speaker 1: your perspective out on trying to find home run hitters 319 00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:06,880 Speaker 1: and Grand Slam hitters, but a few base hits ain't bad. 320 00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:09,840 Speaker 1: If I'm if I'm, if I'm a base hit person, 321 00:15:10,640 --> 00:15:13,120 Speaker 1: is there any value at all in coming to a 322 00:15:13,240 --> 00:15:14,560 Speaker 1: VC fund. 323 00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:17,160 Speaker 3: There's a few vcs out there who play that game, 324 00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:21,920 Speaker 3: and five hundred startups in particular, you know, they played 325 00:15:21,960 --> 00:15:24,240 Speaker 3: that game for a long time. Like, man, you know what, 326 00:15:24,280 --> 00:15:27,040 Speaker 3: we have five hundred startups over time, and if all 327 00:15:27,080 --> 00:15:29,240 Speaker 3: these guys hit like fifty million dollars exits, we're gonna 328 00:15:29,280 --> 00:15:29,680 Speaker 3: be good to go. 329 00:15:29,840 --> 00:15:32,120 Speaker 4: Like the five hundred startups plays that game. There's a 330 00:15:32,120 --> 00:15:33,200 Speaker 4: few vcs to play that game. 331 00:15:33,240 --> 00:15:37,120 Speaker 3: But like in general, particularly now with AI again, the 332 00:15:37,160 --> 00:15:40,840 Speaker 3: game's just changed, Like you know, if the things that 333 00:15:40,920 --> 00:15:44,280 Speaker 3: you can do so quick and like the market you 334 00:15:44,320 --> 00:15:46,520 Speaker 3: can create, like it's like why would I Why would 335 00:15:46,520 --> 00:15:48,520 Speaker 3: I go play around with something that's that small When 336 00:15:48,560 --> 00:15:53,320 Speaker 3: I'm I'm in the future, you know, can be. 337 00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:57,520 Speaker 5: The needle has just yeah, the needle has just pushed 338 00:15:57,560 --> 00:16:00,760 Speaker 5: so far, and the expectator and the thing is when 339 00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:04,400 Speaker 5: the needles put so far, the expectations have not exponentially grown. 340 00:16:04,920 --> 00:16:06,920 Speaker 5: So what you used to be able to come to 341 00:16:07,000 --> 00:16:09,000 Speaker 5: a VC for and say that you know I can 342 00:16:09,040 --> 00:16:12,520 Speaker 5: build this and do why right, you need to show 343 00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:16,360 Speaker 5: that at one hundred x. You know that's just what 344 00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:20,600 Speaker 5: they're expecting. Because whereas, like you know, as a founder, 345 00:16:20,800 --> 00:16:23,560 Speaker 5: you know, you balloon up your company, you take it 346 00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:25,520 Speaker 5: down depending on what where the market is and what's 347 00:16:25,520 --> 00:16:30,200 Speaker 5: happening now. You know, if you've struncken your company after 348 00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:33,680 Speaker 5: the last you know, downturn. A lot of these companies, 349 00:16:33,680 --> 00:16:36,840 Speaker 5: I'm building their company back up to go from from 350 00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:40,800 Speaker 5: twenty back to one hundred people. They're sticking at twenty 351 00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:45,640 Speaker 5: thirty people because with AI you can build ten x 352 00:16:45,720 --> 00:16:48,400 Speaker 5: what you were able to do before. It's sometimes shocking 353 00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:53,080 Speaker 5: and frightening. Even as founders and CEOs, what you have 354 00:16:53,160 --> 00:16:55,560 Speaker 5: the ability to do today is changed. I mean the 355 00:16:56,640 --> 00:17:00,760 Speaker 5: way in which I think about marketing and revops and sales. 356 00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:03,840 Speaker 5: I'm throwing all of that in the different l ms 357 00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:06,600 Speaker 5: and working with them against each other, and it's amplifying 358 00:17:06,600 --> 00:17:08,600 Speaker 5: my ability to do what I do that I don't 359 00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:11,199 Speaker 5: meet as many other people you know around me to 360 00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:14,199 Speaker 5: get the job done. And the same thing we leverage 361 00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:18,359 Speaker 5: it at the fund right whereas you know we're you know, 362 00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:22,240 Speaker 5: James is building tools that we're using internally, you know, 363 00:17:22,280 --> 00:17:24,679 Speaker 5: to run black ops to be able to take the 364 00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:28,399 Speaker 5: client the LPs that we're meeting, put it in system, 365 00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:32,240 Speaker 5: have a rating for them, understand the propensity for them 366 00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:34,520 Speaker 5: to be able to commit to the and then onto 367 00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:36,760 Speaker 5: the next one. Storing we land in a particular city, 368 00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:39,480 Speaker 5: we know who are the people in those cities immediately 369 00:17:39,600 --> 00:17:42,639 Speaker 5: without touching anything other than our homegrown product, who we 370 00:17:42,680 --> 00:17:44,720 Speaker 5: need to reach out to before we even get there, 371 00:17:44,720 --> 00:17:46,399 Speaker 5: and if we land on the ground, who we need 372 00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:48,639 Speaker 5: to reach out there while we're while we're there, and 373 00:17:48,680 --> 00:17:52,280 Speaker 5: it just happens again instantaneously where we need EAS on 374 00:17:52,359 --> 00:17:55,399 Speaker 5: top of EAS more supports to be able to support 375 00:17:55,400 --> 00:17:57,240 Speaker 5: what we're doing. I know we went off on a 376 00:17:57,280 --> 00:17:59,880 Speaker 5: little bit of a tangent there, but when you when 377 00:17:59,880 --> 00:18:03,040 Speaker 5: you talk through this lens, there's so much going on 378 00:18:03,119 --> 00:18:05,919 Speaker 5: right now that if you're not paying attention as a 379 00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:09,160 Speaker 5: founder and leveraging all the tools at your disposal, you're 380 00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:11,480 Speaker 5: just going to be way behind. It's almost it's hard 381 00:18:11,480 --> 00:18:12,040 Speaker 5: to catch up. 382 00:18:12,680 --> 00:18:12,880 Speaker 4: Yeah. 383 00:18:12,880 --> 00:18:15,880 Speaker 1: I like that you brought it the AI perspective into 384 00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:17,760 Speaker 1: this early. I was going to get to this, but 385 00:18:17,960 --> 00:18:20,520 Speaker 1: it makes sense to do it now. So when we 386 00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:24,119 Speaker 1: hear people talk about particularly vcs talk about there's so 387 00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:26,359 Speaker 1: much more you can do with AI now that the 388 00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:31,600 Speaker 1: lower standard has been raised so much higher because you 389 00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:34,800 Speaker 1: can do so much more. What is it that you're 390 00:18:34,880 --> 00:18:37,840 Speaker 1: looking for in founders? Does the product need to be 391 00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:40,720 Speaker 1: does the product have to be out and generating revenue? 392 00:18:40,840 --> 00:18:43,639 Speaker 1: Does that five hundred thousand? Yeah, you talked about everybody's 393 00:18:43,680 --> 00:18:46,280 Speaker 1: doing that, But is there anything I can show you 394 00:18:46,320 --> 00:18:51,280 Speaker 1: with AI pre revenue that will look at you and 395 00:18:51,320 --> 00:18:55,560 Speaker 1: you'll be like, you know what, we still got something 396 00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:58,879 Speaker 1: exciting here and that's something we want to pay attention to. 397 00:19:00,280 --> 00:19:02,600 Speaker 4: Oh, in my mind, go ahead. 398 00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:06,359 Speaker 5: It's the thought process. It's just a way in which 399 00:19:06,400 --> 00:19:08,480 Speaker 5: you think about the world and the way how the 400 00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:13,359 Speaker 5: world works around you. You know, James was mentioning earlier. 401 00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:16,679 Speaker 5: You know, you can't be that same founder who you 402 00:19:16,840 --> 00:19:21,040 Speaker 5: were at a pre seed, at a seed, at an 403 00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:22,720 Speaker 5: a You're not the same founder you were at a 404 00:19:22,760 --> 00:19:25,639 Speaker 5: seed and we subsequent rounds, You're just different. As the 405 00:19:25,680 --> 00:19:28,880 Speaker 5: business is growing, and I think growth is a very 406 00:19:28,880 --> 00:19:31,960 Speaker 5: important aspect here. You need personal growth and you need 407 00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:35,000 Speaker 5: professional growth, and what comes with that is when I 408 00:19:35,040 --> 00:19:37,120 Speaker 5: look at you as a founder. I need to see 409 00:19:37,119 --> 00:19:41,200 Speaker 5: that you have the aptitude and the desire to continue 410 00:19:41,520 --> 00:19:47,679 Speaker 5: to learn, like an insatiable appetite to absorb information and 411 00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:49,679 Speaker 5: to be able to learn and to be able to 412 00:19:49,680 --> 00:19:53,080 Speaker 5: shape shift and change when you need to write. And 413 00:19:53,119 --> 00:19:57,880 Speaker 5: that's incredibly key because you have to be malleable. So 414 00:19:58,080 --> 00:20:00,639 Speaker 5: execution something that you should all to be going, but 415 00:20:00,720 --> 00:20:03,359 Speaker 5: you gotta be malleable, and you got to want to 416 00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:06,000 Speaker 5: consume and absorb information, be able to synthesize it, and 417 00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:08,320 Speaker 5: to be able to put it to work, because that's 418 00:20:08,359 --> 00:20:10,399 Speaker 5: what you've got to be able to do every day. 419 00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:12,200 Speaker 5: Has a founder for you to be able to get 420 00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:13,960 Speaker 5: to where you need to get to and for people 421 00:20:14,040 --> 00:20:17,000 Speaker 5: to think of this person, this horse that I'm gonna 422 00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:18,840 Speaker 5: bet on, is worth the check. 423 00:20:20,760 --> 00:20:22,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, you want to come in on that. 424 00:20:22,680 --> 00:20:25,399 Speaker 4: Oh, I was gonna say, I agree with that. 425 00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:27,439 Speaker 3: Like we're talking about this conversation the other day with 426 00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:30,240 Speaker 3: my man Kevin Spain from Emergency Capital. He was like, 427 00:20:31,080 --> 00:20:32,840 Speaker 3: it's like I believe in the idea of subject matter 428 00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:35,479 Speaker 3: expertise being key right now, like really knowing your domain, 429 00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:37,479 Speaker 3: because when you know your domain so well, you kind 430 00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:40,520 Speaker 3: of the destination and when you know where you are 431 00:20:40,560 --> 00:20:44,360 Speaker 3: now your destination AI closes that gap immediately. Right, it's 432 00:20:44,359 --> 00:20:45,800 Speaker 3: when you don't know the destination that you do in 433 00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:48,280 Speaker 3: last experimentation trying to find it. But he was like, 434 00:20:48,840 --> 00:20:51,879 Speaker 3: even still he's like the person who knows everything about 435 00:20:51,880 --> 00:20:54,920 Speaker 3: the thing but has like a steep slope to learning 436 00:20:55,000 --> 00:20:57,879 Speaker 3: versus the person with like the really low slope to learning. 437 00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:01,920 Speaker 3: I'm taking the guy who can learn like immediately even 438 00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:03,840 Speaker 3: though they've never been in the space. Like, I'm betting 439 00:21:03,840 --> 00:21:06,480 Speaker 3: on that person because in order to work and do 440 00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:07,760 Speaker 3: what we do, you need to be able to learn 441 00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:12,320 Speaker 3: immediately and apply. So it was an interesting conversation. And 442 00:21:12,359 --> 00:21:16,280 Speaker 3: then also just when we look at companies now, like 443 00:21:16,760 --> 00:21:19,560 Speaker 3: distribution is important. How many people can you sell this to? 444 00:21:19,560 --> 00:21:22,320 Speaker 3: How people you have in front of you? Right, we 445 00:21:22,359 --> 00:21:25,879 Speaker 3: have a company right now where some some bcs who 446 00:21:25,960 --> 00:21:29,280 Speaker 3: have been evolved, which is not you know, it's fine, 447 00:21:29,359 --> 00:21:31,600 Speaker 3: like things are moving fast, like unless you're in the bay, 448 00:21:31,640 --> 00:21:33,440 Speaker 3: like you're just not going to be at the pace 449 00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:36,359 Speaker 3: that you need to be. But like they were just 450 00:21:36,359 --> 00:21:37,919 Speaker 3: like look at this company, like well, yeah, sure, you 451 00:21:37,920 --> 00:21:40,000 Speaker 3: have all these small businesses on your platform, like hundreds 452 00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:43,719 Speaker 3: of thousands of them, right, but your product's not going 453 00:21:43,720 --> 00:21:46,040 Speaker 3: to sell every single one. It's like that doesn't matter 454 00:21:46,560 --> 00:21:49,320 Speaker 3: because the thing is, are you betting on someone who 455 00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:50,560 Speaker 3: you think is going to be able to find the 456 00:21:50,600 --> 00:21:53,919 Speaker 3: solution that can sell to a sub segment of these 457 00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:57,080 Speaker 3: people or all across them, and it's personally going to 458 00:21:57,160 --> 00:21:59,800 Speaker 3: keep getting more distribution to these people. And so like 459 00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:02,480 Speaker 3: we're in a world now where if she gets a 460 00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:05,280 Speaker 3: million small businesses on a platform, but only one hundred 461 00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:08,400 Speaker 3: thousands of them use her core product, Frie, she can 462 00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:11,920 Speaker 3: build eight more products and convert all of them because 463 00:22:12,000 --> 00:22:14,600 Speaker 3: you don't need eight engineering teams to do that anymore. 464 00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:17,639 Speaker 3: The same engineering team could create a new product that 465 00:22:17,760 --> 00:22:20,760 Speaker 3: is some some spin off of the core product that 466 00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:24,200 Speaker 3: services the need of an their customer set without hiring 467 00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:24,800 Speaker 3: more engineers. 468 00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:25,680 Speaker 4: Right. 469 00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:28,480 Speaker 3: So, like that's a different way of thinking about business. Traditionally, 470 00:22:28,520 --> 00:22:29,800 Speaker 3: you have to do the one thing that you can 471 00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:31,880 Speaker 3: do best and continue to scale it, continue to scale. 472 00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:32,720 Speaker 4: It and go to market. 473 00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:36,199 Speaker 3: Now you could have eight products at one company and 474 00:22:36,359 --> 00:22:40,040 Speaker 3: have no no difference in overhead, which changes what's possible. 475 00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:44,080 Speaker 2: It's crazy. 476 00:22:43,680 --> 00:22:46,960 Speaker 1: Do you do you believe founders need to be in 477 00:22:47,000 --> 00:22:48,120 Speaker 1: Silicon Valley anymore. 478 00:22:49,200 --> 00:22:51,880 Speaker 3: I mean right now, So they don't have to live there, 479 00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:56,320 Speaker 3: but yeah, exactly, you don't live there, but you need 480 00:22:56,359 --> 00:22:58,359 Speaker 3: to put You need to be in close. 481 00:22:58,119 --> 00:23:01,760 Speaker 5: Proximity at least at least have a couple of visits 482 00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:06,080 Speaker 5: a year at the bare minimum, because there's something called 483 00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:10,680 Speaker 5: osmosis and as and osmosis is a scientific term. If 484 00:23:10,720 --> 00:23:14,320 Speaker 5: you're not communicating with these people, if you're not understanding 485 00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:17,000 Speaker 5: how they're thinking, if you're not asking the right questions, 486 00:23:17,080 --> 00:23:19,360 Speaker 5: because there's there's one. You don't need to know everything, 487 00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:21,439 Speaker 5: but what you need to be able to do is 488 00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:24,959 Speaker 5: ask the right questions so you can get James mentioned destination, 489 00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:28,359 Speaker 5: Like you got to ask the right questions so you 490 00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:30,000 Speaker 5: understand how to get to the destination. 491 00:23:31,200 --> 00:23:34,719 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean right now, Like they stuff's just happening here. 492 00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:38,040 Speaker 3: When I say here, I mean in San Francisco, not Oakland, 493 00:23:38,119 --> 00:23:41,359 Speaker 3: not Palo Alto, San Francisco. You have step put in 494 00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:42,280 Speaker 3: San Francisco. 495 00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:43,480 Speaker 4: I have to go. 496 00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:45,480 Speaker 3: I never went San Franisco over the past nine years. 497 00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:49,320 Speaker 3: I have to step in and say what's going on? 498 00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:52,560 Speaker 3: Like you'll step in there, and it's the equivalent of 499 00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:54,560 Speaker 3: being like yeah, Actors live everywhere. But if you ain't 500 00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:56,280 Speaker 3: step into LA a couple of times a year, you 501 00:23:56,280 --> 00:23:59,560 Speaker 3: ain't acting Yeah, you're you're not doing that. 502 00:23:59,520 --> 00:24:00,399 Speaker 2: Thing, you know. 503 00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:04,080 Speaker 1: I want to go back to this, the AI, how 504 00:24:04,119 --> 00:24:07,000 Speaker 1: it's raised the floor of what you know, the minimum 505 00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:08,840 Speaker 1: you know you should be able to do is and 506 00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:12,320 Speaker 1: I think I think about from the founder perspective, it's 507 00:24:12,359 --> 00:24:15,840 Speaker 1: also removed what I need from a VC in so 508 00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:18,640 Speaker 1: many respects. So while I might have needed a ten 509 00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:20,840 Speaker 1: million dollar round, now I can get a whole lot 510 00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:23,240 Speaker 1: more done with a five million dollar round or potentially 511 00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:25,760 Speaker 1: no round at all. So I like to take I 512 00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:30,440 Speaker 1: like to get your you know, thoughts on do even 513 00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:36,480 Speaker 1: founders who are building AI, well, how has the game 514 00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:39,560 Speaker 1: changed for them when they're doing their calculus on what 515 00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:42,400 Speaker 1: they need from a VC, if anything at all? 516 00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:46,560 Speaker 3: Like I think more than ever, it's important for the 517 00:24:46,600 --> 00:24:48,320 Speaker 3: VC to have more than money and value, Like it's 518 00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:52,080 Speaker 3: always been important, but like now it's like you got 519 00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:54,560 Speaker 3: to move so fast to go to market and you 520 00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:56,720 Speaker 3: got to build a build your team fast, like because 521 00:24:56,720 --> 00:24:58,399 Speaker 3: the business is moving so fast, because the product can 522 00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:01,479 Speaker 3: be built so fast, Like more than ever, like PCs 523 00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:05,080 Speaker 3: to provide more value than money. And I also think 524 00:25:05,119 --> 00:25:07,600 Speaker 3: that going back to that modeling of how you get 525 00:25:07,640 --> 00:25:11,480 Speaker 3: these returns, there might be a world where, because people 526 00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:13,240 Speaker 3: are real to build so efficiently, they only need to 527 00:25:13,280 --> 00:25:16,600 Speaker 3: raise ten million dollars that we can go for a 528 00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:19,480 Speaker 3: half a billion dollar exit and still have a busius 529 00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:22,280 Speaker 3: skill return because we didn't need a Series F to 530 00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:25,400 Speaker 3: make it. Right, So if we can minimize the mount 531 00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:27,639 Speaker 3: of capital it takes to get someone two hundred million dollars, 532 00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:31,760 Speaker 3: we can start working with. This is our technically smaller scale, 533 00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:34,320 Speaker 3: right because we're going to have more ownership over the 534 00:25:34,320 --> 00:25:36,879 Speaker 3: company when it goes to exit. You know, if I 535 00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:40,200 Speaker 3: put a million dollars into a company and I own 536 00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:43,520 Speaker 3: ten percent of it, but I keep that ten percent 537 00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:46,679 Speaker 3: and they go sell for one hundred million in like 538 00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:50,560 Speaker 3: three three, you know, three years, that's a that that 539 00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:52,960 Speaker 3: does make a move, that does do like because the 540 00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:56,800 Speaker 3: speed you know before my run my coming for ten years, 541 00:25:56,840 --> 00:25:59,359 Speaker 3: even in this company for almost ten years, Like you know, 542 00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:01,720 Speaker 3: if you could do. 543 00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:07,560 Speaker 4: What I did in three years, well that also that's meaningful. 544 00:26:07,760 --> 00:26:10,440 Speaker 3: That's meaningful game, like you know, I think I think 545 00:26:10,600 --> 00:26:13,000 Speaker 3: that if people can build companies that require less capital 546 00:26:13,080 --> 00:26:17,400 Speaker 3: to get to meaningful exits that becomes an interesting way 547 00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:20,160 Speaker 3: to bring more potential business into fold. 548 00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:24,640 Speaker 1: I'm gonna get to see you, Sean. So I want 549 00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:28,120 Speaker 1: to talk about access. And there's been so many conversations 550 00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:30,480 Speaker 1: around us not knowing the right people, not being in 551 00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:33,120 Speaker 1: the right schools and universities to be able to get 552 00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:38,240 Speaker 1: in these networks. How can we potentially reframe that perceived 553 00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:41,280 Speaker 1: lack of access and use it as leverage? So what 554 00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:45,000 Speaker 1: I mean is this, I believe like in every crisis 555 00:26:45,080 --> 00:26:48,560 Speaker 1: or every downturn, there's an opportunity if we look at 556 00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:50,800 Speaker 1: it a different way. That doesn't mean it's not hurtful. 557 00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:54,560 Speaker 1: That doesn't mean it's not harmful, but there's also opportunity there. 558 00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:58,520 Speaker 1: And so with a lack of access, what is it 559 00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:04,120 Speaker 1: that we could see as the other side on that perception? 560 00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:06,440 Speaker 1: How do we use it as leverage by not being 561 00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:07,440 Speaker 1: part of those circles? 562 00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:13,520 Speaker 5: Yeah, and it's true, like access is a major part 563 00:27:13,560 --> 00:27:18,000 Speaker 5: of the game. You know, where James and I sit today, 564 00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:21,720 Speaker 5: we're probably a degree of separation for whoever you want 565 00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:24,320 Speaker 5: to really connect to that are doing it at a 566 00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:26,960 Speaker 5: high level. But you know, we've had to bust the 567 00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:30,399 Speaker 5: door down, you know, in certain regards and and find 568 00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:33,119 Speaker 5: our ways into rooms because being in the room is 569 00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:35,040 Speaker 5: half is half the battle, and then understanding how to 570 00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:40,679 Speaker 5: work the room is the other half. Today, content, like 571 00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:45,280 Speaker 5: people say, content is king or queen just just to 572 00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:49,800 Speaker 5: be able to make dollars off of it, right, but 573 00:27:50,359 --> 00:27:53,960 Speaker 5: you can you can get access to anybody now through content. 574 00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:56,240 Speaker 5: You know, people are launching podcasts, people are launching these 575 00:27:56,240 --> 00:28:00,439 Speaker 5: different conversations. Even vcs are launching their own their own podcast. 576 00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:04,680 Speaker 5: Why because founders are consuming this content and wondering who's 577 00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:06,240 Speaker 5: the one that I want to be able to work with. 578 00:28:06,280 --> 00:28:09,720 Speaker 5: Because you can be more discerning today because again we 579 00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:12,439 Speaker 5: have tools at our disposal with AI that's putting us 580 00:28:12,440 --> 00:28:13,960 Speaker 5: in the position to be able to build what we 581 00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:16,000 Speaker 5: want to be able to build. And now it's like 582 00:28:16,040 --> 00:28:18,480 Speaker 5: you're buying, the VC has also got to buy for 583 00:28:18,720 --> 00:28:20,280 Speaker 5: the founder they want to want to be able to 584 00:28:20,320 --> 00:28:24,920 Speaker 5: work with. And so leveraging, leveraging content is a way 585 00:28:24,960 --> 00:28:26,680 Speaker 5: to equal the playing field, to be able to get 586 00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:28,640 Speaker 5: that access, be able to get those eyeballs, be able 587 00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:31,159 Speaker 5: to get those people to pay attention to you. But 588 00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:35,600 Speaker 5: also what you're seeing come up is you're hearing a 589 00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:38,080 Speaker 5: lot of things around community building. These days, you know 590 00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:41,800 Speaker 5: that all these LLLM whether it be Claude, Open AI, 591 00:28:42,080 --> 00:28:45,440 Speaker 5: et cetera, they're hiring these people who can head up communities, 592 00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:49,760 Speaker 5: build communities. IRL is becoming again more important doing these 593 00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:53,800 Speaker 5: dinners in these different arenas and areas, and you doesn't 594 00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:55,600 Speaker 5: matter where you're building or what you're doing. You can 595 00:28:55,800 --> 00:28:59,440 Speaker 5: set up and build community. Set up dinners that are 596 00:28:59,440 --> 00:29:02,719 Speaker 5: pulling people and letting them understand what your narrative is 597 00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:04,440 Speaker 5: and then them going out and sharing it in their 598 00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:07,840 Speaker 5: micro communities. Right, And that's how you can build your 599 00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:11,040 Speaker 5: visible pro build your profile, be more visible out there, 600 00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:14,400 Speaker 5: and get more access. You know, that's what's incredibly key. 601 00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:16,800 Speaker 5: I remember when I need to I needed to like 602 00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:19,120 Speaker 5: look where somebody was going to be. How do I 603 00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:20,720 Speaker 5: show up? How do I find how do I get 604 00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:23,480 Speaker 5: a ticket out in that room? And today you can 605 00:29:23,560 --> 00:29:26,120 Speaker 5: do You can do that all again from the confines 606 00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:28,800 Speaker 5: of your desk if you're if you're thinking through it greatly. 607 00:29:28,880 --> 00:29:31,120 Speaker 5: But the other the other piece of that is is 608 00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:33,720 Speaker 5: find a way to be able to build community and 609 00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:35,200 Speaker 5: let that community give you access. 610 00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:41,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, and I'll also just talk about the moment the 611 00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:44,360 Speaker 3: moment is you know the emergence of like true AI 612 00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:51,040 Speaker 3: right and this is more important than the celluar phone. 613 00:29:51,840 --> 00:29:55,200 Speaker 3: This is arguably arguably more important than the personal computer. 614 00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:58,160 Speaker 3: That's the level of like change that we're dealing with 615 00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:01,880 Speaker 3: right now. And don't differences is that when the personal 616 00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:04,760 Speaker 3: computer came on, the mobile phone came out, there's a 617 00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:07,920 Speaker 3: difference who can afford it, who couldn't. And right now, 618 00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:10,680 Speaker 3: the most powerful thing ever to exist in my lifetime 619 00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:14,040 Speaker 3: is accessible to anybody. A homeless person could use claud 620 00:30:14,440 --> 00:30:17,280 Speaker 3: literally like cats are on cell phones, they got cell service, 621 00:30:17,320 --> 00:30:19,600 Speaker 3: they got the plugged in the wall. They could literally 622 00:30:19,600 --> 00:30:23,280 Speaker 3: be on Claude building. It's just a matter of do 623 00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:26,240 Speaker 3: you know what's possible? Were you given just an hour 624 00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:29,440 Speaker 3: tutorial on what's possible, on how to direct this and 625 00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:33,760 Speaker 3: how you build like is a one day experience to 626 00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:36,000 Speaker 3: get plug into what's possible for those who have never 627 00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:38,280 Speaker 3: been able to do these things in their lives, and 628 00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:42,680 Speaker 3: so for me, considering that people like us have different 629 00:30:42,720 --> 00:30:46,120 Speaker 3: live life experiences, different problems we think we need to solve, 630 00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:49,200 Speaker 3: different ways we'd approach solving the problem. The gap has 631 00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:51,600 Speaker 3: traditionally been that you don't have the technical capability to 632 00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:54,520 Speaker 3: do it that has been commoditized and doesn't matter anymore. 633 00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:56,760 Speaker 4: And so in the current moment don't matter. 634 00:30:56,800 --> 00:31:00,360 Speaker 3: If you in my TPHD Stanford ball boom boom, you 635 00:31:00,480 --> 00:31:02,080 Speaker 3: might not be as nice as the guy from east 636 00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:04,520 Speaker 3: side Detroit who's just really smart about this problem he 637 00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:06,880 Speaker 3: wants to solve and it has been able to claud Yeah, 638 00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:09,880 Speaker 3: and that's the equalization that's never existed in history of time. 639 00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:12,280 Speaker 3: And it's not going to last for more than their 640 00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:14,480 Speaker 3: twelve eighteen months. You're not gonna be able to pay 641 00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:18,200 Speaker 3: ten dollars a month for TI year, twenty dollars months 642 00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:19,520 Speaker 3: for Claude in two years. 643 00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:23,400 Speaker 4: They're getting you hooked right now. You actually need that. 644 00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:25,240 Speaker 3: They're gonna be like it's like five hundred dollars a 645 00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:28,000 Speaker 3: thousand dollars, and it's gonna be worth a thousand dollars. Yeah, 646 00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:30,040 Speaker 3: I mean I spend thousands of dollars a month on Claude. 647 00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:32,720 Speaker 3: I don't even think about it because because I'm ten xing. 648 00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:36,440 Speaker 3: Yeah man, yeah, I would spend hundreds of thousands of 649 00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:38,160 Speaker 3: dollars on people to do the stuff that I do 650 00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:41,840 Speaker 3: with a blink of eye, right, but right, now anybody 651 00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:44,760 Speaker 3: could do it, and that is that's the perfect equalizer 652 00:31:45,160 --> 00:31:46,840 Speaker 3: to say there was ever a time that there was 653 00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:48,960 Speaker 3: gonna be people who look like us building. 654 00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:52,120 Speaker 4: In this space. This is it? Answer this no more, 655 00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:52,959 Speaker 4: not in our lifetime. 656 00:31:54,240 --> 00:31:56,680 Speaker 1: And I was gonna close there because that was a 657 00:31:56,760 --> 00:31:58,640 Speaker 1: really great close. But there's one more question I want 658 00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:01,200 Speaker 1: to ask, you know, to start with you, Jane, but 659 00:32:01,360 --> 00:32:03,040 Speaker 1: you kind of touched on this, and I want to 660 00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:06,840 Speaker 1: really highlight this point. There's this article I read where 661 00:32:06,880 --> 00:32:09,400 Speaker 1: you wrote this. He said, you know, but now VC's 662 00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:13,239 Speaker 1: attitudes have undergone a fundamental shift. No longer are they 663 00:32:13,280 --> 00:32:16,040 Speaker 1: impressed with the fact that you have a GPT rapper. 664 00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:20,920 Speaker 1: Where's the unique insight, Where's the defensibility? Vcs are learning 665 00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:24,280 Speaker 1: hard lessons from lofty AI investments that over promised and 666 00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:27,880 Speaker 1: under delivered. This new attitude is driven the criteria and 667 00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:32,120 Speaker 1: standard expectations for securing funding for AI startups to evolve rapidly. 668 00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:35,440 Speaker 1: And so I want to particularly talk about this, you know, 669 00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:40,680 Speaker 1: this defensibility and unique insight, particularly for black founders when 670 00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:44,680 Speaker 1: the technical part is commoditized. How do you encourage or 671 00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:47,320 Speaker 1: what do you what are you encouraging black founders to 672 00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:51,880 Speaker 1: lean on in that we have a particular worldview or 673 00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:56,400 Speaker 1: worldviews that add value and have value in the marketplace. 674 00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:57,960 Speaker 1: And I'm gonna let but you both touch on this. 675 00:32:58,040 --> 00:32:59,560 Speaker 1: But you James first, he as you wrote. 676 00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:05,320 Speaker 3: That for me, like the defensibility part comes in your 677 00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:07,680 Speaker 3: expertise in the space and how do you use these 678 00:33:07,720 --> 00:33:10,719 Speaker 3: foundational technologies to get to an outcome. So it's almost 679 00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:13,680 Speaker 3: like obviously anybody can go in like a GPT rapper 680 00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:16,800 Speaker 3: is like, oh, like you can talk to my thing 681 00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:18,680 Speaker 3: and it comes back with information, But you didn't write 682 00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:20,600 Speaker 3: that model, or you're just like passing GPT and passing 683 00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:22,960 Speaker 3: it back to your interface. Right, not no one's gonna 684 00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:26,320 Speaker 3: be impressed by that. But if you decide you're going 685 00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:30,400 Speaker 3: to create like your own instance of a LAMA or 686 00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:32,880 Speaker 3: a GPT, and you're going to train it on a 687 00:33:32,880 --> 00:33:35,640 Speaker 3: certain set of data that's proprietary to you, and you're 688 00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:39,040 Speaker 3: going to then perhaps combine that with use cases of 689 00:33:39,040 --> 00:33:41,480 Speaker 3: other open source models that help filter the information and 690 00:33:41,520 --> 00:33:43,160 Speaker 3: ways that gets you to an outcome that's you know, 691 00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:46,000 Speaker 3: specific to what you're trying to do. You start to 692 00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:49,160 Speaker 3: create defensibility because the workflow by whence you're doing this 693 00:33:49,320 --> 00:33:51,520 Speaker 3: is bespoke to you and what you know about the market. 694 00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:54,000 Speaker 3: So I think there's a lot of that in place 695 00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:57,720 Speaker 3: where it's like I don't expect to be building foundational models. 696 00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:02,160 Speaker 3: Leave that to what I call them mechanics, Open AI 697 00:34:02,320 --> 00:34:04,360 Speaker 3: and the quaw. These guys, these guys are mechanics. Leave 698 00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:07,760 Speaker 3: us some mechanics. We're looking for race car drivers, right, 699 00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:10,080 Speaker 3: I'm not looking for the I love the guys who 700 00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:13,240 Speaker 3: work camera cities by like watching Blues, Hammles and race right. 701 00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:16,600 Speaker 3: So like it's like, do you know how to move 702 00:34:16,640 --> 00:34:18,400 Speaker 3: this thing and get it around the corner in a 703 00:34:18,440 --> 00:34:20,080 Speaker 3: way that no one else knows how to? That's the 704 00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:22,640 Speaker 3: defensible part. But you can try, you can watch it 705 00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:24,399 Speaker 3: on video, but you can't see it all at once. 706 00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:26,840 Speaker 3: You don't know what all went into getting around that corner. 707 00:34:27,520 --> 00:34:29,800 Speaker 3: And that becomes a defensible part at this point because 708 00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:32,960 Speaker 3: I can see any product now and I could replicate it. 709 00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:34,680 Speaker 4: I could literally, I can go. 710 00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:38,080 Speaker 3: I've gone to the documentation of a product ingested all 711 00:34:38,120 --> 00:34:40,040 Speaker 3: of it for context until hey, I had rebuilt it, 712 00:34:40,080 --> 00:34:42,080 Speaker 3: rebuilt it, launched it, and canceled my subscription. 713 00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:44,799 Speaker 4: Yeah, man, you need to. 714 00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:49,400 Speaker 3: Have a product where the workflow, plus the user experiences 715 00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:51,919 Speaker 3: be spoke to your knowledge of what your cap doing. 716 00:34:52,520 --> 00:34:54,560 Speaker 4: Like, you're now to that space that. 717 00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:57,400 Speaker 3: Is so unique that allows you to create an experience 718 00:34:58,200 --> 00:35:01,640 Speaker 3: and an output that only you can create, right, and 719 00:35:01,640 --> 00:35:03,879 Speaker 3: then then goes to distribution the people who always try 720 00:35:03,920 --> 00:35:04,680 Speaker 3: and recor what you're doing. 721 00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:08,239 Speaker 4: And the faster you go, the hardest people catch up. 722 00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:10,640 Speaker 4: So there there's a there's a speaking there. 723 00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:13,800 Speaker 2: Showing touch on this. 724 00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:18,480 Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, I totally I totally agree, and I double 725 00:35:18,600 --> 00:35:22,319 Speaker 5: down on on the industry expertise and your and your 726 00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:26,279 Speaker 5: lived expertise together is what's going to allow you to 727 00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:29,960 Speaker 5: be able to accelerate. When you can see around the 728 00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:33,440 Speaker 5: corners and understand, you know, the decisions that need to 729 00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:36,200 Speaker 5: be made, that's what's going to separate you, and that's 730 00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:38,160 Speaker 5: going to be your different That's what you're going to 731 00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:40,280 Speaker 5: differentiate yourself by it, and that's going to be your mote. 732 00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:43,160 Speaker 5: You know, we both play in industries that we know 733 00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:46,799 Speaker 5: better than anybody else in the game. And so when 734 00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:49,560 Speaker 5: I even think about just meeting with with with my 735 00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:52,040 Speaker 5: team on that side, you know, earlier on today we're 736 00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:55,719 Speaker 5: thinking through the fact that hey, we made a particular 737 00:35:55,840 --> 00:36:00,520 Speaker 5: judgment call on AI agents. That's allowing us to be 738 00:36:00,640 --> 00:36:04,120 Speaker 5: able to It's gonna allow bright the end of this. 739 00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:05,000 Speaker 4: Year one hundred acts. 740 00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:07,759 Speaker 5: What is happening if you think about a twelve month 741 00:36:07,840 --> 00:36:09,799 Speaker 5: period that you have to be able to build and 742 00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:13,319 Speaker 5: it's because of the expertise angle and you you you 743 00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:16,200 Speaker 5: being a maniacal researcher. It's not just about excuse, but 744 00:36:16,320 --> 00:36:19,480 Speaker 5: you continue to consume and you continue to research, and 745 00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:21,879 Speaker 5: that's going to set you apart because you know your 746 00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:24,840 Speaker 5: industry better than anybody else. And as long as you 747 00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:27,840 Speaker 5: can say that I am the industry expert and couple 748 00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:30,400 Speaker 5: that with the pace at which AI is is moving 749 00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:33,800 Speaker 5: and what and those tools that you're grabbing to enhance 750 00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:36,040 Speaker 5: your day to day, nobody's going to be able. 751 00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:36,440 Speaker 4: To keep up with you. 752 00:36:36,960 --> 00:36:39,120 Speaker 5: Which is why I'm like, if I'm in any particular 753 00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:43,800 Speaker 5: room and I'm not telling you to get on chatty 754 00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:48,719 Speaker 5: to tchem and HI, you know, PERPLEXI like dive in 755 00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:51,640 Speaker 5: because I'm doing I'm doing you at this service by 756 00:36:51,640 --> 00:36:54,040 Speaker 5: sitting across from you, eating this nice steak and not 757 00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:56,239 Speaker 5: telling you to be able to in. 758 00:36:58,120 --> 00:36:59,080 Speaker 4: The scraps. 759 00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:05,279 Speaker 3: Because exactly because if you enterprises can't play this game either. 760 00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:07,280 Speaker 4: I'll sit down and talk to Netflix about some stuff 761 00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:11,360 Speaker 4: and they'll be like, WHOA, I didn't know that was done. 762 00:37:11,600 --> 00:37:13,920 Speaker 4: But because they're not, they're not even able to use 763 00:37:13,920 --> 00:37:15,000 Speaker 4: these tools yet because. 764 00:37:14,840 --> 00:37:18,319 Speaker 3: Enterprises are afraid to put their data into Claude, which 765 00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:20,439 Speaker 3: I can't be mad at them. But at the same time, 766 00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:22,680 Speaker 3: I don't care how many engineers you got, Netflix, you 767 00:37:22,719 --> 00:37:28,400 Speaker 3: can't outpace me because I have CLACK. It's not even close. 768 00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:31,960 Speaker 3: It's humanly impossible. So like, I can do things that 769 00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:34,359 Speaker 3: these large enterprises that should be fully capable of it 770 00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:35,560 Speaker 3: cannot accomplish. 771 00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:38,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's really good. That's a great place in it. 772 00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:42,200 Speaker 1: Sean James Black Ops, it's all good talking to you guys. 773 00:37:42,640 --> 00:37:46,319 Speaker 1: Thank you so much, so much, man, Hey, appreciate you 774 00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:47,160 Speaker 1: absolutely