1 00:00:04,160 --> 00:00:10,240 Speaker 1: From Bloomberg News and iHeartRadio. It's the big take. I'm 2 00:00:10,280 --> 00:00:14,200 Speaker 1: Westksova today. The issues that will decide who wins the 3 00:00:14,240 --> 00:00:25,520 Speaker 1: White House in twenty twenty four. Pretty much the moment 4 00:00:25,560 --> 00:00:28,840 Speaker 1: Joe Biden made it official that he is indeed running 5 00:00:28,840 --> 00:00:32,120 Speaker 1: for a second term, the White House and the rest 6 00:00:32,159 --> 00:00:35,800 Speaker 1: of Washington, not to mention a certain ex president down 7 00:00:35,840 --> 00:00:40,040 Speaker 1: in Florida, immediately switched into full campaign mode. 8 00:00:40,520 --> 00:00:43,720 Speaker 2: Now we've just got to keep it going, finish the job. 9 00:00:44,040 --> 00:00:46,600 Speaker 2: We just remember who we are. We are the United 10 00:00:46,800 --> 00:00:52,320 Speaker 2: States of America. There's nothing, nothing, nothing beyond our capacity. Nothing. 11 00:00:53,120 --> 00:00:56,360 Speaker 1: If we work together to win the election, Biden or 12 00:00:56,400 --> 00:01:00,480 Speaker 1: his Republican opponent, whether it's Donald Trump again to Governor 13 00:01:00,560 --> 00:01:03,640 Speaker 1: Rond De Santis or someone else, will likely need to 14 00:01:03,800 --> 00:01:08,000 Speaker 1: peel away at least some voters from the other side. That, 15 00:01:08,120 --> 00:01:10,880 Speaker 1: of course, is no easy task, but as dug in 16 00:01:11,080 --> 00:01:13,320 Speaker 1: as most people are for one party or the other 17 00:01:13,440 --> 00:01:15,959 Speaker 1: these days, there are quite a few big issues at 18 00:01:16,000 --> 00:01:19,240 Speaker 1: stake this time around that have the potential to shake 19 00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:22,240 Speaker 1: some people loose. Issues like abortion. 20 00:01:22,800 --> 00:01:26,399 Speaker 3: Politically, that's turned out to be something of a poison chalice. 21 00:01:26,640 --> 00:01:31,399 Speaker 4: Immigration, The Republican Canada will certainly make immigration a top issue. 22 00:01:31,480 --> 00:01:34,959 Speaker 4: They've used it for years as a cudgel against Joe Biden. 23 00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:37,800 Speaker 1: And LGBTQ plus rights. 24 00:01:37,880 --> 00:01:40,800 Speaker 5: The line that got the biggest standing innovation from the room, 25 00:01:40,880 --> 00:01:43,399 Speaker 5: and this surprised me. It got to the whole idea 26 00:01:43,440 --> 00:01:46,800 Speaker 5: of gender identity and kids and the room went nuts. 27 00:01:47,120 --> 00:01:51,440 Speaker 1: That's Bloomberg's Joshua Green, Nancy Cook, and Jordan Fabian. They 28 00:01:51,480 --> 00:01:54,000 Speaker 1: too are gearing up for the campaign and they're sorting 29 00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:57,240 Speaker 1: through these top of mind issues that will dominate the 30 00:01:57,280 --> 00:02:02,040 Speaker 1: next election. Nancy, at the moment, it looks like either 31 00:02:02,080 --> 00:02:05,040 Speaker 1: Donald Trump or Ron De Santis will be the Republican 32 00:02:05,080 --> 00:02:07,880 Speaker 1: nominee for president next year, though of course that could 33 00:02:07,920 --> 00:02:10,880 Speaker 1: certainly change. It's pretty early, and both of them are 34 00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:13,880 Speaker 1: making the case why they should get to go up 35 00:02:13,919 --> 00:02:16,880 Speaker 1: against Joe Biden. But let's start with Biden himself, because 36 00:02:16,919 --> 00:02:20,840 Speaker 1: right now the attention is on him after his big announcement, 37 00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:23,480 Speaker 1: and he has to make the case to voters why 38 00:02:23,600 --> 00:02:27,400 Speaker 1: they should give him a second term. And there doesn't 39 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:31,280 Speaker 1: seem to be a lot of excitement about Biden himself, 40 00:02:31,360 --> 00:02:32,720 Speaker 1: even from Democrats. 41 00:02:33,080 --> 00:02:35,680 Speaker 5: I think what's motivating Democrats at this point is not 42 00:02:35,720 --> 00:02:38,400 Speaker 5: wanting to see Trump, you know, not wanting to see 43 00:02:38,440 --> 00:02:41,640 Speaker 5: a Ron de Santis figure there. They think Biden's fine. 44 00:02:41,840 --> 00:02:44,360 Speaker 5: I don't think that they feel like he necessarily deserves 45 00:02:44,360 --> 00:02:47,840 Speaker 5: a second term. And also there's huge concerns about his age. 46 00:02:47,919 --> 00:02:50,760 Speaker 5: He just turned eighty, and I feel like people are 47 00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:52,200 Speaker 5: fairly worried about that. 48 00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:56,040 Speaker 1: And here's what President Biden recently had to say about that. 49 00:02:56,440 --> 00:02:59,960 Speaker 6: With regard to age, I can't even say, I guess 50 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:02,400 Speaker 6: how old I am. I can't even say the number. 51 00:03:03,320 --> 00:03:04,640 Speaker 7: It's done register with me. 52 00:03:05,720 --> 00:03:09,359 Speaker 6: But the only thing I can say is that one 53 00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:11,040 Speaker 6: of the things that people are going to find out, 54 00:03:11,120 --> 00:03:13,079 Speaker 6: they're going to see a race, and they're going to 55 00:03:13,200 --> 00:03:15,440 Speaker 6: judge whether or not I have or don't have it. 56 00:03:15,880 --> 00:03:17,959 Speaker 6: I respect them taking a hard look at it. I 57 00:03:18,080 --> 00:03:20,000 Speaker 6: take a hard look at it as well. I took 58 00:03:20,040 --> 00:03:21,839 Speaker 6: a hard look at it before I decided to run. 59 00:03:22,639 --> 00:03:26,239 Speaker 6: And I feel good. I feel excited about the prospects, 60 00:03:26,560 --> 00:03:29,280 Speaker 6: and I think we're on the verge of really turning 61 00:03:29,320 --> 00:03:31,440 Speaker 6: the corner and away. We haven't a long time. 62 00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:34,760 Speaker 5: But he really has no democratic challenger, so that's who 63 00:03:34,800 --> 00:03:37,440 Speaker 5: it's going to be on the democratic side, Jordan. 64 00:03:37,760 --> 00:03:42,280 Speaker 1: Why aren't people excited about Biden. He's actually done quite 65 00:03:42,320 --> 00:03:44,120 Speaker 1: a lot. Like He's done a lot of the things 66 00:03:44,120 --> 00:03:46,160 Speaker 1: that he promised he was going to do and that 67 00:03:46,240 --> 00:03:48,320 Speaker 1: people voted for him to do. 68 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:52,040 Speaker 4: He did accomplish a lot in his first two years 69 00:03:52,040 --> 00:03:55,440 Speaker 4: in office, arguably even more than Barack Obama did in 70 00:03:55,480 --> 00:03:59,040 Speaker 4: his first two years. But the factors, and Nancy pointed 71 00:03:59,080 --> 00:04:02,800 Speaker 4: this out, that remains a huge concern not only for 72 00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:05,680 Speaker 4: Biden's physical health and well being and its ability to 73 00:04:05,720 --> 00:04:08,000 Speaker 4: serve a full eight years in the White House, but 74 00:04:08,040 --> 00:04:11,320 Speaker 4: there's an appetite among Democratic activists as well who I've 75 00:04:11,320 --> 00:04:14,160 Speaker 4: spoken to. They just want a generation of new leadership, 76 00:04:14,360 --> 00:04:16,839 Speaker 4: not even just for twenty twenty four, but going forward. 77 00:04:17,080 --> 00:04:20,479 Speaker 4: Their concerns about the viability of figures on the bench 78 00:04:20,600 --> 00:04:24,200 Speaker 4: to become the party standard bearer and beat back either 79 00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:27,560 Speaker 4: Donald Trump or trump like figures in the Republican Party 80 00:04:27,760 --> 00:04:30,240 Speaker 4: who are trying to pull the country in a far 81 00:04:30,320 --> 00:04:30,920 Speaker 4: right direction. 82 00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:33,760 Speaker 3: I think the other big factor is that Americans, when 83 00:04:33,760 --> 00:04:36,480 Speaker 3: you look at Poles, still feel like the economy is 84 00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:39,479 Speaker 3: heading in a bad direction. Inflation is historically high, whether 85 00:04:39,520 --> 00:04:43,200 Speaker 3: it's filling up your car or buying groceries, Prices are 86 00:04:43,480 --> 00:04:46,800 Speaker 3: frustratingly more than it feels like they should be than 87 00:04:46,800 --> 00:04:49,680 Speaker 3: it was pre pandemic, and Biden is the president who 88 00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:52,280 Speaker 3: has presided over all of that. Things have gotten somewhat better, 89 00:04:52,320 --> 00:04:54,400 Speaker 3: but they haven't gotten a whole lot better, and so 90 00:04:54,480 --> 00:04:57,120 Speaker 3: I think that there's an undercurrent of dissatisfaction. And you 91 00:04:57,200 --> 00:05:01,039 Speaker 3: see that reflected everywhere, from his overall approval rating, which 92 00:05:01,120 --> 00:05:03,320 Speaker 3: hit an all time low in the most recent Gallup 93 00:05:03,360 --> 00:05:07,159 Speaker 3: poll of thirty seven percent, to just basic questions about 94 00:05:07,279 --> 00:05:09,839 Speaker 3: right track wrong track in the direction of the economy, 95 00:05:09,839 --> 00:05:13,320 Speaker 3: which historically have been a pretty good indicator of a 96 00:05:13,360 --> 00:05:14,799 Speaker 3: president's chances at reelection. 97 00:05:14,960 --> 00:05:16,440 Speaker 7: I think the best thing that Biden. 98 00:05:16,200 --> 00:05:18,560 Speaker 3: Has going for him is a likelihood that he's probably 99 00:05:18,600 --> 00:05:21,240 Speaker 3: going to wind up running against a Republican who may 100 00:05:21,279 --> 00:05:23,520 Speaker 3: be even more unpopular with the public than he is, 101 00:05:23,520 --> 00:05:25,679 Speaker 3: and that'll be perhaps the saving grace. 102 00:05:26,440 --> 00:05:28,320 Speaker 5: I also think, just to add to that, at this 103 00:05:28,480 --> 00:05:31,760 Speaker 5: White House, one of the criticisms that I've heard about 104 00:05:31,800 --> 00:05:34,760 Speaker 5: them is that they're just really bad at selling President 105 00:05:34,760 --> 00:05:38,720 Speaker 5: Biden's accomplishments. He has done a ton of things. There's 106 00:05:38,760 --> 00:05:43,039 Speaker 5: an infrastructure package, the Chips Bill, we held NATO together 107 00:05:43,200 --> 00:05:46,640 Speaker 5: when Russia invaded Ukraine, like he has a really long 108 00:05:46,680 --> 00:05:49,800 Speaker 5: list of accomplishments. There was a Washington Post poll this 109 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:52,279 Speaker 5: fall which I thought was so stunning that said over 110 00:05:52,400 --> 00:05:56,240 Speaker 5: sixty percent of Americans could not name a single accomplishment 111 00:05:56,400 --> 00:05:59,440 Speaker 5: from the Biden agenda. And I think that just shows that, 112 00:05:59,760 --> 00:06:02,640 Speaker 5: you know, Americans are not really sort of tuned into 113 00:06:02,680 --> 00:06:05,440 Speaker 5: what he's doing. And that's partly a function of the 114 00:06:05,480 --> 00:06:08,200 Speaker 5: media environment has changed after Trump. You know, Americans are 115 00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:10,600 Speaker 5: not sort of following politics as closely as they were 116 00:06:10,640 --> 00:06:12,760 Speaker 5: when Trump was in the White House and tweeting everything 117 00:06:12,800 --> 00:06:15,400 Speaker 5: out all the time. And I think some people like that. 118 00:06:15,720 --> 00:06:17,720 Speaker 5: But the other problem is is this White House has 119 00:06:17,800 --> 00:06:20,119 Speaker 5: not done a great job of selling the American people 120 00:06:20,120 --> 00:06:22,279 Speaker 5: on what they've done, and that will be a challenge 121 00:06:22,320 --> 00:06:23,360 Speaker 5: for them as they campaign. 122 00:06:24,839 --> 00:06:28,880 Speaker 1: It's interesting because one of Biden's famous complaints about Barack 123 00:06:28,960 --> 00:06:32,800 Speaker 1: Obama was that Obama thought everyone should just know how 124 00:06:32,839 --> 00:06:34,839 Speaker 1: good he is an edgy thing that he's done, and 125 00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:36,839 Speaker 1: he didn't like to sell it. And Biden, as Vice 126 00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:40,240 Speaker 1: president was always pushing Obama, like, out your accomplishments. Why 127 00:06:40,279 --> 00:06:41,680 Speaker 1: hasn't Biden been able to do that? 128 00:06:42,040 --> 00:06:43,280 Speaker 7: It's not for lack of trying. 129 00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:46,200 Speaker 4: They've done a ton of events and I've covered a 130 00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:48,520 Speaker 4: lot of them where they're talking about all of the 131 00:06:48,600 --> 00:06:52,159 Speaker 4: legislation that Nancy just mentioned. And he's also traveled to 132 00:06:52,200 --> 00:06:55,560 Speaker 4: a lot of states where they're opening new factories or 133 00:06:55,680 --> 00:06:59,520 Speaker 4: new plants to make semiconductors, and he's he's taking credit 134 00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:02,839 Speaker 4: for it. But the problem is that Biden's message, just 135 00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:06,000 Speaker 4: for whatever reason, whether it's the media environment or Biden 136 00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:09,320 Speaker 4: as a person, doesn't seem to break through with the public. 137 00:07:09,440 --> 00:07:13,040 Speaker 4: And so whatever he's putting out there, it's not being absorbed. 138 00:07:13,040 --> 00:07:14,120 Speaker 7: But they need to. 139 00:07:14,040 --> 00:07:17,040 Speaker 4: Confront that problem and fix it so that not only 140 00:07:17,080 --> 00:07:19,640 Speaker 4: can they set up a contrast with the Republican candidate, 141 00:07:19,640 --> 00:07:23,080 Speaker 4: but they can actually have a positive message to sell 142 00:07:23,160 --> 00:07:25,800 Speaker 4: to the public to convince them that he deserves four 143 00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:26,880 Speaker 4: more years in the White House? 144 00:07:27,480 --> 00:07:31,720 Speaker 1: Is this partly Josh? Where Republicans go with the gut, 145 00:07:31,840 --> 00:07:34,360 Speaker 1: Like if you look at Donald Trump, he goes after 146 00:07:34,400 --> 00:07:37,560 Speaker 1: people's grievances they're anger, he gives them someone to blame, 147 00:07:37,600 --> 00:07:39,800 Speaker 1: whereas Democrats want to talk about the details of their 148 00:07:39,800 --> 00:07:42,000 Speaker 1: policies and people just kind of tune out. 149 00:07:42,440 --> 00:07:43,480 Speaker 7: I think that's part of it. 150 00:07:43,520 --> 00:07:45,680 Speaker 3: I mean, I've always thought, not really have pull numbers 151 00:07:45,680 --> 00:07:49,640 Speaker 3: to back this up, that Democrats and Independence really elected 152 00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:51,520 Speaker 3: Joe Biden for one reason, and that was to get 153 00:07:51,640 --> 00:07:54,160 Speaker 3: rid of Donald Trump. He sort of accomplished that on 154 00:07:54,240 --> 00:07:57,840 Speaker 3: election night, and everything after that isn't really as interesting. 155 00:07:57,840 --> 00:08:00,280 Speaker 3: I mean the last election, as the next one may be, 156 00:08:00,320 --> 00:08:02,320 Speaker 3: it was really a referendum on Donald Trump. But what 157 00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:04,080 Speaker 3: you see in politics a lot these days, and this 158 00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:07,560 Speaker 3: is reflected in polling, is that it's negative politics that 159 00:08:07,640 --> 00:08:09,560 Speaker 3: drive rather than positive. So if you look at poll 160 00:08:09,640 --> 00:08:12,600 Speaker 3: numbers of Democratic voters in twenty twenty and say did 161 00:08:12,640 --> 00:08:16,600 Speaker 3: you cast your vote for Joe Biden or against Donald Trump, 162 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:19,880 Speaker 3: most Democrats were voting against Donald Trump. So that I 163 00:08:19,880 --> 00:08:22,360 Speaker 3: think makes it a little bit harder for Biden to 164 00:08:22,480 --> 00:08:25,760 Speaker 3: kind of emerge. Is this captivating, charismatic figure who can 165 00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:27,840 Speaker 3: sell his accomplishments and get people to sit up and 166 00:08:27,840 --> 00:08:28,400 Speaker 3: pay attention. 167 00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:31,240 Speaker 4: And one point I went to build off that is 168 00:08:31,280 --> 00:08:34,240 Speaker 4: if you look at Biden's video announcement for his re 169 00:08:34,280 --> 00:08:37,719 Speaker 4: election campaign, he doesn't talk too much about his accomplishments. 170 00:08:37,720 --> 00:08:41,000 Speaker 4: He talks much more about the threat posed by Donald Trump. 171 00:08:41,280 --> 00:08:45,160 Speaker 4: It opens with imagery from January sixth, includes images of 172 00:08:45,400 --> 00:08:49,560 Speaker 4: Marjorie Taylor Green and Ron desantas other Trump acolytes. And 173 00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:53,000 Speaker 4: he's saying that I ran for the first time to 174 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:55,160 Speaker 4: fight the battle for the sult the nation, and it's 175 00:08:55,200 --> 00:08:56,199 Speaker 4: not yet complete. 176 00:08:56,360 --> 00:08:59,040 Speaker 8: When I ran for president four years ago, I said, 177 00:08:59,040 --> 00:09:01,560 Speaker 8: we're in a battle for the soul of America, and 178 00:09:01,640 --> 00:09:05,400 Speaker 8: we still are. The question for facing is whether in 179 00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:08,840 Speaker 8: the years ahead we have more freedom or less freedom, 180 00:09:09,240 --> 00:09:11,880 Speaker 8: more rights or fewer. I know what I want the 181 00:09:11,880 --> 00:09:14,840 Speaker 8: assim to be, and I think you do too. This 182 00:09:14,880 --> 00:09:16,640 Speaker 8: is not a time to be complacent. 183 00:09:17,320 --> 00:09:19,680 Speaker 4: And so Joe Biden, the point is might not need 184 00:09:19,720 --> 00:09:22,959 Speaker 4: to be this superstar whoeveryone loves and indoors. He might 185 00:09:23,040 --> 00:09:25,440 Speaker 4: just need to be, in his words, not better than 186 00:09:25,480 --> 00:09:27,080 Speaker 4: the almighty, but better than the all times. 187 00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:29,040 Speaker 3: I think it's exactly right also, and he knows what 188 00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:31,520 Speaker 3: he's selling. What he's selling is not Joe Biden is 189 00:09:31,520 --> 00:09:34,400 Speaker 3: a neat guy. He's selling the idea that Donald Trump 190 00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:36,760 Speaker 3: back in the White House would be an absolute disaster 191 00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:38,760 Speaker 3: for the country, and in fairness, that probably is his 192 00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:39,480 Speaker 3: best argument. 193 00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:42,880 Speaker 1: Nancy, Is that enough or does he need to do 194 00:09:42,960 --> 00:09:45,000 Speaker 1: what he hasn't done so far, which is deriving people 195 00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:48,000 Speaker 1: what he's already done, and then lay out a plan 196 00:09:48,200 --> 00:09:50,040 Speaker 1: for what he will do if he gets in a 197 00:09:50,080 --> 00:09:50,560 Speaker 1: second time. 198 00:09:50,760 --> 00:09:52,960 Speaker 5: I think that as long as the economy does not 199 00:09:53,040 --> 00:09:56,200 Speaker 5: dip into a recession, him sort of laying out the 200 00:09:56,240 --> 00:09:59,840 Speaker 5: perils of Donald Trump and you know what could happen, 201 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:02,240 Speaker 5: we will probably be enough and that's what they'll stick to. 202 00:10:02,679 --> 00:10:02,880 Speaker 7: You know. 203 00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:05,959 Speaker 5: You have to remember the midterms were so surprising because 204 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:09,040 Speaker 5: inflation was so high all fall. You know, a lot 205 00:10:09,120 --> 00:10:11,280 Speaker 5: of people thought the Democrats were going to get claubered, 206 00:10:11,760 --> 00:10:15,080 Speaker 5: and they managed to hang on to the Senate. The 207 00:10:15,080 --> 00:10:18,360 Speaker 5: Republicans won the House, but by very few seats, and 208 00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:22,720 Speaker 5: really the conditions were very favorable for the Republicans to 209 00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:26,040 Speaker 5: just do so well politically. But I feel like the 210 00:10:26,160 --> 00:10:30,000 Speaker 5: Democrats did such a good job firing people up about abortion, 211 00:10:30,360 --> 00:10:34,200 Speaker 5: casting all of those decisions as like very extreme positions 212 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:37,520 Speaker 5: on the part of the Republican Party, and it really 213 00:10:37,559 --> 00:10:39,440 Speaker 5: worked to their advantage. And they're going to run that 214 00:10:39,480 --> 00:10:42,600 Speaker 5: same playbook in twenty twenty four, you know, really running 215 00:10:42,640 --> 00:10:47,040 Speaker 5: on Republicans being extreme, wanting to cut Social Security and medicare, 216 00:10:47,600 --> 00:10:50,400 Speaker 5: wanting to lower taxes on the wealthy. They're going to 217 00:10:50,440 --> 00:10:53,480 Speaker 5: talk a ton about, you know, abortion restrictions. That's going 218 00:10:53,559 --> 00:10:56,480 Speaker 5: to be a huge message for Democrats because it really 219 00:10:56,520 --> 00:10:59,960 Speaker 5: has fired up female voters, independent suburban women. These are 220 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:02,400 Speaker 5: people Joe Biden needs to win. And so we're going 221 00:11:02,440 --> 00:11:04,880 Speaker 5: to see that mid term playbook happen again in twenty 222 00:11:04,960 --> 00:11:06,559 Speaker 5: twenty four. We're already seeing it. 223 00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:11,520 Speaker 1: Republicans fought for years to restrict abortion, and now that 224 00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:14,440 Speaker 1: it's happened, it turns out it might not be the 225 00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:16,439 Speaker 1: winning issue they hoped it would be. 226 00:11:16,800 --> 00:11:19,480 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean politically that's turned out to be something 227 00:11:19,480 --> 00:11:21,600 Speaker 3: of a poison chalice. And you look at the recent 228 00:11:21,679 --> 00:11:25,599 Speaker 3: election Wisconsin and it was shockingly a blowout for Democrats 229 00:11:25,600 --> 00:11:28,240 Speaker 3: in a very fifty to fifty state, driven mainly, it 230 00:11:28,240 --> 00:11:31,400 Speaker 3: seems like, by backlash against the abortion decision. And I 231 00:11:31,400 --> 00:11:34,280 Speaker 3: think the reason that's so troubling to Republicans politically is 232 00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:36,319 Speaker 3: that this is something that's now going to play out 233 00:11:36,320 --> 00:11:39,319 Speaker 3: in all fifty states because of the Supreme Court decision. 234 00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:42,680 Speaker 3: I think for Democrats in Biden that's going to be 235 00:11:43,320 --> 00:11:47,160 Speaker 3: politically especially advantageous if ron De Santis turns out to 236 00:11:47,160 --> 00:11:49,840 Speaker 3: be the Republican nominee, because he recently signed a six 237 00:11:49,920 --> 00:11:52,800 Speaker 3: week abortion ban in Florida that goes very much against 238 00:11:52,880 --> 00:11:56,640 Speaker 3: public opinion and is the sort of issue that Democrats 239 00:11:56,679 --> 00:12:00,679 Speaker 3: and Biden can really focus on to rally not Democrats, 240 00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:03,960 Speaker 3: but also independence and even some of the suburban Republicans 241 00:12:03,960 --> 00:12:06,920 Speaker 3: who've been so instrumental in the last few election cycles. 242 00:12:07,400 --> 00:12:10,640 Speaker 5: Voters do not want a total ban. The majority of voters, 243 00:12:10,679 --> 00:12:13,120 Speaker 5: that is not something that is popular with them. I 244 00:12:13,160 --> 00:12:15,280 Speaker 5: saw this on the campaign trail in New Hampshire recently, 245 00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:18,640 Speaker 5: where Republican Senator Tim Scott, who is planning to run 246 00:12:18,679 --> 00:12:22,640 Speaker 5: for president, really spent three days going back and forth 247 00:12:22,720 --> 00:12:25,600 Speaker 5: on whether or not he supported a federal abortion ban. 248 00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:27,840 Speaker 5: And over the course of those three days, as he 249 00:12:27,880 --> 00:12:30,760 Speaker 5: went to Iowa, New Hampshire, and then South Carolina, he 250 00:12:30,840 --> 00:12:34,360 Speaker 5: gave increasingly different answers based on pressure he was getting 251 00:12:34,400 --> 00:12:38,400 Speaker 5: from local voters anti abortion advocates. And so it's just 252 00:12:38,440 --> 00:12:41,520 Speaker 5: a sort of distilled to me how tough it is 253 00:12:41,559 --> 00:12:44,240 Speaker 5: going to be for all of the Republican candidates to 254 00:12:44,320 --> 00:12:45,560 Speaker 5: deal with this issue. 255 00:12:45,800 --> 00:12:48,800 Speaker 4: What's remarkable to me is that Republicans just seemed like 256 00:12:48,840 --> 00:12:51,079 Speaker 4: the dog that finally caught the car on this issue, 257 00:12:51,120 --> 00:12:54,160 Speaker 4: like they had no plan to sort of make the 258 00:12:54,240 --> 00:12:58,040 Speaker 4: case to the public why restrictions on abortion are good 259 00:12:58,440 --> 00:13:01,480 Speaker 4: that would appeal to main stream voters, not just their 260 00:13:02,040 --> 00:13:05,280 Speaker 4: right wing base who has long supported this, and they 261 00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:08,280 Speaker 4: haven't figured it out, And when Nancy was just describing, 262 00:13:08,520 --> 00:13:11,120 Speaker 4: seems to indicate they're going to turtle on this issue. 263 00:13:11,240 --> 00:13:14,320 Speaker 4: We're seeing with Donald Trump too, where he's refusing to 264 00:13:14,320 --> 00:13:17,680 Speaker 4: take a position at all, essentially on abortion rights, which 265 00:13:17,720 --> 00:13:21,079 Speaker 4: is untenable if he becomes the nominee, Democrats and Joe 266 00:13:21,120 --> 00:13:23,240 Speaker 4: Biden will bash him over the head with that. If 267 00:13:23,280 --> 00:13:25,600 Speaker 4: he continues to do that, and until they figure out 268 00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:28,120 Speaker 4: a message, they're going to continue to get hit by 269 00:13:28,120 --> 00:13:29,840 Speaker 4: this by Democrats quite effectively. 270 00:13:30,520 --> 00:13:38,280 Speaker 1: After the break, Republican politicians lean into the culture wars. 271 00:13:42,840 --> 00:13:43,200 Speaker 9: Jordan. 272 00:13:43,440 --> 00:13:46,960 Speaker 1: Another big question on the hit parade of issues is 273 00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:51,960 Speaker 1: the US Supreme Court. Obviously, Trump's ability to solidify the 274 00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:55,400 Speaker 1: conservative majority on the Court has had far reaching effectsuma 275 00:13:55,440 --> 00:13:58,600 Speaker 1: which we're talking about here today. How big do you 276 00:13:58,679 --> 00:14:01,800 Speaker 1: think that the question of the next president being able 277 00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:04,840 Speaker 1: to appoint a Supreme Court justice and all these other 278 00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:07,680 Speaker 1: federal judge ships is going to be in the minds 279 00:14:07,679 --> 00:14:08,560 Speaker 1: of voters. 280 00:14:08,760 --> 00:14:10,320 Speaker 7: For years, if not decades. 281 00:14:10,440 --> 00:14:13,720 Speaker 4: This was a big motivating issue for Republican voters and 282 00:14:13,760 --> 00:14:16,920 Speaker 4: Republican candidates. Democrats kind of had it on the back burner. 283 00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:20,080 Speaker 4: So this is something that the DABS decision that overturned 284 00:14:20,320 --> 00:14:24,320 Speaker 4: the national right to an abortion is going to crystallize 285 00:14:24,440 --> 00:14:27,680 Speaker 4: and for Democratic voters in this election cycle for all 286 00:14:27,720 --> 00:14:30,320 Speaker 4: the reasons you mentioned that the next president will likely 287 00:14:30,360 --> 00:14:33,160 Speaker 4: pick one, if not more, Supreme Court justices, and so 288 00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:36,600 Speaker 4: this ties directly into the abortion discussion we've been having 289 00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:39,560 Speaker 4: so far. There are gun cases that could come before 290 00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:43,200 Speaker 4: the Supreme Court. That's an issue that Democratic candidates have highlighted, 291 00:14:43,440 --> 00:14:46,560 Speaker 4: and also voting rights, and so the Supreme Court is 292 00:14:46,640 --> 00:14:49,720 Speaker 4: really an extension of all those policy issues we just 293 00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:53,160 Speaker 4: talked about, and right now Democrats are using those as 294 00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:56,080 Speaker 4: wedge issues against Republicans. So I would expect that it's 295 00:14:56,120 --> 00:14:58,880 Speaker 4: going to be a big motivating issue for Democrats. Now 296 00:14:58,880 --> 00:15:02,000 Speaker 4: that Republicans got their majority on the Supreme Court, it 297 00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:05,080 Speaker 4: seems like less of a motivating factor for those voters. 298 00:15:05,440 --> 00:15:07,280 Speaker 1: We talked a bit about the economy. How much do 299 00:15:07,320 --> 00:15:10,760 Speaker 1: you think questions of inequality or this idea that working 300 00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:15,760 Speaker 1: people are getting a bad deal because of big corporations 301 00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:20,040 Speaker 1: and banks and that kind of populist message that Trump 302 00:15:20,120 --> 00:15:23,200 Speaker 1: ran on that Biden also ran on in different ways. 303 00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:24,880 Speaker 1: How much would you think that resonates. 304 00:15:25,520 --> 00:15:27,880 Speaker 4: I think that is just sort of baked into this campaign, 305 00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:30,440 Speaker 4: especially if it's a Biden Trump rematch, like that seems 306 00:15:30,480 --> 00:15:33,760 Speaker 4: to be the baseline that they're running on, So I'm 307 00:15:33,760 --> 00:15:36,880 Speaker 4: not sure they're winning over voters one way or another. 308 00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:39,400 Speaker 5: I think that the way that Biden is going to 309 00:15:39,440 --> 00:15:42,920 Speaker 5: attack that message in twenty twenty four is related to 310 00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:45,520 Speaker 5: his accomplishments, and I think that Democrats are going to 311 00:15:45,560 --> 00:15:48,480 Speaker 5: go after sort of working class voters by saying, look, 312 00:15:48,600 --> 00:15:50,880 Speaker 5: one of the results of the Infrastructure bill or the 313 00:15:50,960 --> 00:15:55,680 Speaker 5: CHIPSAC are all of these jobs that pay really well, 314 00:15:55,720 --> 00:15:58,840 Speaker 5: that are like high skilled manufacturing jobs, and you don't 315 00:15:58,840 --> 00:16:00,760 Speaker 5: need a college degree for them. And I think that, 316 00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:03,280 Speaker 5: you know, a big part of that message with that 317 00:16:03,360 --> 00:16:06,240 Speaker 5: agenda is just about like creating jobs for good people 318 00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:08,800 Speaker 5: who feel like they've been left behind, whereas Trump's message 319 00:16:08,840 --> 00:16:11,600 Speaker 5: to those people is much more like grievance based, whereas 320 00:16:11,640 --> 00:16:14,080 Speaker 5: I think Joe Biden's message is going to be more like, 321 00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:16,720 Speaker 5: here's a tangible thing like a job or a factory 322 00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:17,560 Speaker 5: in your hometown. 323 00:16:18,080 --> 00:16:22,360 Speaker 3: Biden himself is potentially quite vulnerable to an economic populist 324 00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:24,000 Speaker 3: attack from Trump from De Santis. 325 00:16:24,080 --> 00:16:25,080 Speaker 7: Really on two fronts. 326 00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:27,120 Speaker 3: One is that if you're talking from the standpoint of 327 00:16:27,160 --> 00:16:30,960 Speaker 3: working class grievance, the matter of inflation and rising prices 328 00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:33,600 Speaker 3: and kind of the difficulty that that puts on people 329 00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:35,760 Speaker 3: in their day to day lives is still something that's 330 00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:39,440 Speaker 3: very real and present. It's possible that future interest rate 331 00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:42,160 Speaker 3: rises could help bring inflation down and then maybe this 332 00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:45,240 Speaker 3: will have settled by the time twenty twenty four comes around. 333 00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:47,200 Speaker 3: But it's also possible that the economy could be in 334 00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:50,080 Speaker 3: a recession, and that would be another real vulnerability that 335 00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:53,480 Speaker 3: Donald Trump or DeSantis could attack. I mean, Trump could say, 336 00:16:53,560 --> 00:16:56,840 Speaker 3: you know, rightfully, I presided over an era of growing 337 00:16:56,920 --> 00:16:59,640 Speaker 3: jobs and it hadn't been for this nasty coronavirus. You know, 338 00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:02,280 Speaker 3: I made America great. I can do it again. I 339 00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:04,560 Speaker 3: do think it could potentially be a problem for Biden 340 00:17:04,600 --> 00:17:06,600 Speaker 3: because really the state of the economy I think is 341 00:17:06,600 --> 00:17:09,600 Speaker 3: his biggest vulnerability at this point, regardless of who we 342 00:17:09,640 --> 00:17:10,679 Speaker 3: winds up running against. 343 00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:15,520 Speaker 1: Jordan. Immigration is another issue that animates the candidates from 344 00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:19,200 Speaker 1: both parties, but in pretty different ways. Republicans have whipped 345 00:17:19,320 --> 00:17:22,800 Speaker 1: up fear and resentment against immigrants people coming up from 346 00:17:22,800 --> 00:17:27,760 Speaker 1: the southern border from Mexico and Central America. How effective 347 00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:30,439 Speaker 1: will that message be this time around? 348 00:17:31,080 --> 00:17:34,480 Speaker 4: The Republican candidate will certainly make immigration a top issue. 349 00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:38,080 Speaker 4: They've used it for years as a cudgel against Joe Biden. 350 00:17:38,440 --> 00:17:41,199 Speaker 4: If you watch Fox News for even five minutes, a 351 00:17:41,280 --> 00:17:44,760 Speaker 4: segment on the border and border crossings will definitely appear. 352 00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:47,800 Speaker 4: Voters if you look at Poles, don't approve of Biden's 353 00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:50,720 Speaker 4: handling of the border. I believe it's an issue where 354 00:17:50,800 --> 00:17:53,959 Speaker 4: it's actually contributed to the ceiling on Donald Trump' support 355 00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:57,440 Speaker 4: because in the way that he talks about immigration and immigrants. 356 00:17:57,640 --> 00:18:00,800 Speaker 4: We heard him call Mexican's rapists and crimminals when he 357 00:18:00,840 --> 00:18:04,000 Speaker 4: first ran for office in twenty sixteen, and he's continued 358 00:18:04,040 --> 00:18:07,480 Speaker 4: to rail against immigrants themselves and also just people of 359 00:18:07,480 --> 00:18:10,320 Speaker 4: color generally this country throughout his four years in office 360 00:18:10,320 --> 00:18:14,520 Speaker 4: and afterwards. It's not a popular message with the center 361 00:18:14,560 --> 00:18:16,760 Speaker 4: of this country that's going to decide the selection. And 362 00:18:16,840 --> 00:18:19,639 Speaker 4: so I don't think Republicans have While they've may have 363 00:18:19,920 --> 00:18:21,960 Speaker 4: hurt Joe Biden standing, they haven't found a way and 364 00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:25,240 Speaker 4: talk about it that frankly doesn't sound racist and is 365 00:18:25,280 --> 00:18:27,439 Speaker 4: not going to alienate a large portion of the voters. 366 00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:32,399 Speaker 1: Another cultural grievance issue that Republicans have really latched onto 367 00:18:32,600 --> 00:18:36,359 Speaker 1: is anti LGBTQ legislation we're seeing in a lot of 368 00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:40,240 Speaker 1: Red states having to do with books in schools and 369 00:18:40,600 --> 00:18:44,560 Speaker 1: gender firming care for minors, and even things like book 370 00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:49,640 Speaker 1: readings by drag performers. Donald Trump has latched onto this 371 00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:52,119 Speaker 1: in a big way. How much do you think that 372 00:18:52,200 --> 00:18:54,800 Speaker 1: this is going to play into the campaign. 373 00:18:55,520 --> 00:18:57,360 Speaker 5: I think on the Republican side, it's going to plan 374 00:18:57,359 --> 00:18:59,800 Speaker 5: into the campaign a huge amount. Going back to a 375 00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:02,920 Speaker 5: trip I took to New Hampshire, I saw Ron Desanta 376 00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:05,760 Speaker 5: speak at a GOP fundraising dinner. 377 00:19:05,760 --> 00:19:06,000 Speaker 6: There. 378 00:19:06,520 --> 00:19:09,400 Speaker 5: The line that got the biggest standing ovation from the room, 379 00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:12,880 Speaker 5: and this surprised me, was when he said, in Florida, 380 00:19:13,480 --> 00:19:16,520 Speaker 5: no one has the right to tell a second grade 381 00:19:16,560 --> 00:19:20,719 Speaker 5: girl that she actually belongs in a boy's body. It 382 00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:23,840 Speaker 5: got to the whole idea of gender identity and kids, 383 00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:26,520 Speaker 5: and the room went nuts. And I really feel like 384 00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:30,520 Speaker 5: on the campaign trail, this whole idea of transgender education, 385 00:19:30,720 --> 00:19:33,920 Speaker 5: particularly with children and how that is being spoken about 386 00:19:33,960 --> 00:19:38,080 Speaker 5: in schools has really turned into a lightning rod for voters, 387 00:19:38,080 --> 00:19:41,439 Speaker 5: and Republican politicians are really exploiting it. It's sort of 388 00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:44,280 Speaker 5: the way that we used to hear Republicans do fear 389 00:19:44,359 --> 00:19:48,120 Speaker 5: mongering about same sex marriage or things now that are 390 00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:52,280 Speaker 5: just like very culturally acceptable by the majority of people. 391 00:19:52,800 --> 00:19:56,080 Speaker 5: And this is sort of the next frontier and it 392 00:19:56,200 --> 00:20:00,080 Speaker 5: is resonating like much more with Republican voters than I 393 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:00,440 Speaker 5: I had thought. 394 00:20:01,280 --> 00:20:04,560 Speaker 1: Nancy, Josh and Jordan give us their early twenty twenty 395 00:20:04,560 --> 00:20:16,359 Speaker 1: four predictions. After the break, we keep talking about Donald 396 00:20:16,359 --> 00:20:19,760 Speaker 1: Trump and Ron DeSantis. Who does Joe Biden want to 397 00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:22,199 Speaker 1: run against and who doesn't he want to run against. 398 00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:24,640 Speaker 3: I don't think any question but that he would prefer 399 00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:26,560 Speaker 3: to run against Donald Trump. He's run against him once 400 00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:29,280 Speaker 3: he's beaten him. Trump seems to have a cap a 401 00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:31,600 Speaker 3: ceiling on a support of somewhere around you know, forty 402 00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:34,600 Speaker 3: three forty four percent of America. He's done nothing at 403 00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:36,760 Speaker 3: all to to kind of broaden his appeal and reach 404 00:20:36,760 --> 00:20:39,320 Speaker 3: out to independent voters. And of course he's been indicted 405 00:20:39,359 --> 00:20:41,560 Speaker 3: once and maybe several more times. By the time we 406 00:20:41,560 --> 00:20:44,000 Speaker 3: actually get to election day, So I think that would 407 00:20:44,080 --> 00:20:46,240 Speaker 3: be the easier lift for Biden. 408 00:20:46,720 --> 00:20:51,159 Speaker 4: The White House and Biden's political operation has had Trump 409 00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:53,040 Speaker 4: on their mind this whole time as the person who 410 00:20:53,040 --> 00:20:55,000 Speaker 4: they like to run against. The thing they point to 411 00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:57,120 Speaker 4: is the twenty twenty campaign when they beat him. There's 412 00:20:57,119 --> 00:21:00,679 Speaker 4: a proven track record against beating him. Ron Desanta. The 413 00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:04,160 Speaker 4: flip side of that is he's someone who's in his forties. 414 00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:07,560 Speaker 4: It would certainly come across as younger then President Biden. 415 00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:11,520 Speaker 4: Is pretty nimble on his feet and has these quick 416 00:21:11,520 --> 00:21:15,320 Speaker 4: attack lines that might not contrast well with Biden on 417 00:21:15,359 --> 00:21:16,320 Speaker 4: a debate stage. 418 00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:18,640 Speaker 7: And also it's just he's more of an unknown entity to. 419 00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:21,160 Speaker 4: The White House on the national stage, and so they 420 00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:23,240 Speaker 4: know what they're getting in Donald Trump, they don't know 421 00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:26,240 Speaker 4: how to necessarily do that yet against Ron DeSantis, they're 422 00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:28,639 Speaker 4: certainly painting him as this extremist. 423 00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:32,159 Speaker 1: And here is coming to Rhyn De Santis talking to 424 00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:34,400 Speaker 1: crowd at Liberty University. 425 00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:39,360 Speaker 9: We have embraced freedom, we have maintained law and order. 426 00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:44,480 Speaker 9: We have protected the rights of parents. We have elevated 427 00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:48,040 Speaker 9: the importance of family and promoted a culture of life. 428 00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:55,439 Speaker 9: We have respected our taxpayers, and we have rejected woke ideology. 429 00:21:56,040 --> 00:21:59,040 Speaker 4: They'll be certain to highlight the six weeks abortion band 430 00:21:59,160 --> 00:22:01,920 Speaker 4: that he signed into law, as well as other things 431 00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:04,359 Speaker 4: like this few that he's having with Disney. But there's 432 00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:06,960 Speaker 4: not game tape, so to say, on Rye de Santis 433 00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:08,560 Speaker 4: like they have on Donald Trump and all. 434 00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:11,040 Speaker 5: I would also just add to that, you know, Democrats 435 00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:13,439 Speaker 5: feel like this will actually be the fourth time that 436 00:22:13,440 --> 00:22:17,400 Speaker 5: they've run against Trump, because they ran against like his policies, 437 00:22:18,000 --> 00:22:21,280 Speaker 5: you know, in twenty eighteen in the midterms, they ran 438 00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:24,320 Speaker 5: against him in the twenty twenty presidential election, Biden took 439 00:22:24,359 --> 00:22:26,200 Speaker 5: back the White House, and then they ran against a 440 00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:29,399 Speaker 5: bunch of Trump back candidates in twenty twenty two in 441 00:22:29,440 --> 00:22:31,679 Speaker 5: the midterms, and they kept control of the Senate in 442 00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:34,560 Speaker 5: an election where many people thought they would not. So 443 00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:37,560 Speaker 5: they just feel like, you know, Trump keeps coming back 444 00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:40,439 Speaker 5: and they keep beating him, and they just feel really 445 00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:44,040 Speaker 5: almost giddy about the prospect of potentially running against him again. 446 00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:48,200 Speaker 3: I think the biggest vulnerability for Biden are just ordinary 447 00:22:48,400 --> 00:22:51,800 Speaker 3: political fundamentals. We as a country, and as a media 448 00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:54,400 Speaker 3: class and as a political class, have become so obsessed 449 00:22:54,440 --> 00:22:56,639 Speaker 3: with seeing everything through the lens of Donald Trump that 450 00:22:56,720 --> 00:22:59,080 Speaker 3: if you stop and remove Trump from the equation for 451 00:22:59,119 --> 00:23:01,800 Speaker 3: a second, any president who had a thirty seven percent 452 00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:05,560 Speaker 3: approval rating, who had soaring inflation, who had right wrong 453 00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:08,520 Speaker 3: track numbers as negative as they are, who had such 454 00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:12,600 Speaker 3: big concerns about his own candidacy, even most Democrats would 455 00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:14,800 Speaker 3: prefer a younger candidate than Joe Biden if you just 456 00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:17,480 Speaker 3: step back and look at those basic fundamentals. Those are 457 00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:20,399 Speaker 3: real concerns that Americans have. And yes, it's possible and 458 00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:22,760 Speaker 3: maybe even likely that if Trump were the candidate, he 459 00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:27,160 Speaker 3: would do outrageous things and unify Democrats and independence strongly 460 00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:28,960 Speaker 3: enough to give Biden a second term. 461 00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:30,560 Speaker 7: But there's certainly no guarantee of that. 462 00:23:30,960 --> 00:23:35,119 Speaker 3: And I think people tend to gloss over the level 463 00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:38,840 Speaker 3: of unhappiness in the country during Joe Biden's presidency, and 464 00:23:38,880 --> 00:23:41,080 Speaker 3: I think that that's got to be a big warning 465 00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:42,640 Speaker 3: sign that even people in the White House, I don't 466 00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:44,320 Speaker 3: think are paying a great deal of attention. 467 00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:47,879 Speaker 1: To Another thing running through this campaign are all the 468 00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:52,320 Speaker 1: lawsuits and investigations against Donald Trump. How big a deal 469 00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:54,119 Speaker 1: do you think that's going to be? And then on 470 00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:58,040 Speaker 1: the other side, you ever Republicans doing investigations of Joe 471 00:23:58,040 --> 00:24:01,880 Speaker 1: Biden's son, Hunter Biden, and trying to have a sort 472 00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:05,240 Speaker 1: of tip for tat there to show well, there's scandals everywhere. 473 00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:06,480 Speaker 7: Yeah, I mean, Republicans have. 474 00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:09,480 Speaker 3: Been trying to make Hunter Biden happen for years now, 475 00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:11,600 Speaker 3: and it really just hasn't connected with the public. I mean, 476 00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:14,240 Speaker 3: I think people just sort of understand the idea that 477 00:24:14,680 --> 00:24:17,479 Speaker 3: President Biden has this kind of wayward son who may 478 00:24:17,480 --> 00:24:19,760 Speaker 3: be up to no good, but it really isn't something 479 00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:22,280 Speaker 3: that seems to have impacted Joe Biden or his presidency. 480 00:24:22,480 --> 00:24:23,920 Speaker 7: As far as the Trump scandals, I think that's a 481 00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:24,640 Speaker 7: much bigger deal. 482 00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:28,160 Speaker 3: I mean, just since the last election, he's been impeached again, 483 00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:30,760 Speaker 3: He's been indicted once, and he might get indicted one 484 00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:33,439 Speaker 3: or two more times. That's something I think that is 485 00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:35,639 Speaker 3: more front and center for voters. There's a sort of 486 00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:38,080 Speaker 3: level of exhaustion with Trump and all the baggage that 487 00:24:38,119 --> 00:24:40,560 Speaker 3: he cares with him, and he's only added to that 488 00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:44,400 Speaker 3: baggage with all of these scandals and lawsuits. It's hard 489 00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:47,359 Speaker 3: for me to see how he expands his support beyond 490 00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:50,440 Speaker 3: what it was in twenty twenty. While he is kind 491 00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:52,520 Speaker 3: of enduring all of these things, and I think that's 492 00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:54,720 Speaker 3: probably the major hurdle in him making it back to 493 00:24:54,760 --> 00:24:55,359 Speaker 3: the White House. 494 00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:58,960 Speaker 1: Jordan, do you think the investigation of the classified documents 495 00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:01,639 Speaker 1: that were found in Joe biden his garage rises to 496 00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:05,000 Speaker 1: the level of scrutiny that the documents over Trump did. 497 00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:07,560 Speaker 4: We'll have to wait and see what the Special Council 498 00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:11,239 Speaker 4: investigating that matter turns up. But Josha said, they've been 499 00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:14,119 Speaker 4: trying to make Hunter Biden happen, and they haven't. The 500 00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:17,280 Speaker 4: same for the classified documents. It's no doubt that it 501 00:25:17,359 --> 00:25:20,400 Speaker 4: was a problem for Joe Biden. The classified documents were 502 00:25:20,440 --> 00:25:24,880 Speaker 4: wrongly found at his home and offices, but all indications 503 00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:28,560 Speaker 4: are that they were mistakenly put there, Whereas there's evidence 504 00:25:28,560 --> 00:25:32,600 Speaker 4: that Donald Trump intentionally tried to block federal authorities from 505 00:25:32,640 --> 00:25:36,600 Speaker 4: retrieving similar kinds of documents and perhaps documents that revealed 506 00:25:36,600 --> 00:25:39,960 Speaker 4: even more sensitive information from his resort in Florida. So 507 00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:43,520 Speaker 4: once again we have a problem with intensity and sort 508 00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:46,200 Speaker 4: of legal peril that Donald Trump is facing that Joe 509 00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:48,359 Speaker 4: Biden simply is not, and therefore it's going to be 510 00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:50,800 Speaker 4: a bigger political problem for Donald Trump. 511 00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:55,679 Speaker 1: Any show talking about a presidential campaign would be remiss 512 00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:58,920 Speaker 1: not to ask the only question anyone really wants to know, Nancy, 513 00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:03,280 Speaker 1: Joe Biden versus Donald Trump, Joe Biden versus Ron DeSantis, 514 00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:03,840 Speaker 1: who wins? 515 00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:07,200 Speaker 5: I think if it's Joe Biden versus Trump, I think 516 00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:10,760 Speaker 5: Biden will win, but by a much narrower margin then 517 00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:14,560 Speaker 5: that Democrats would be comfortable with. And I think Biden 518 00:26:15,080 --> 00:26:17,760 Speaker 5: likely will win against Ron DeSantis too, But I also 519 00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:21,880 Speaker 5: think Ron DeSantis will not make it through the GOP primary. 520 00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:25,840 Speaker 4: My answer is very boringly similar to Nancy's. I do 521 00:26:25,880 --> 00:26:29,719 Speaker 4: think Biden wins a matchup with Donald Trump for all 522 00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:33,280 Speaker 4: the reasons we've talked about. Ron DeSantis also is just 523 00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:36,080 Speaker 4: really stumbled out of the gate in his campaign. He's 524 00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:38,479 Speaker 4: not proven that he's ready for the national stage. That 525 00:26:38,520 --> 00:26:41,359 Speaker 4: could certainly change. But Joe Biden's been on the national 526 00:26:41,359 --> 00:26:43,359 Speaker 4: stage for decades and he knows how to run a 527 00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:46,040 Speaker 4: national campaign, as he proved in twenty twenty. And so 528 00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:49,320 Speaker 4: I'll take Joe Biden also in a matchup with Ron DeSantis. 529 00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:52,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, in comment, presidents just rarely lose. Donald 530 00:26:52,560 --> 00:26:54,600 Speaker 3: Trump did, and if he's the one back on the 531 00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:57,520 Speaker 3: ticket again, it's hard for me to imagine voters swapping 532 00:26:57,520 --> 00:27:00,520 Speaker 3: out Biden for Trump. But I've been around long enough 533 00:27:00,520 --> 00:27:03,800 Speaker 3: and cover politics enough to know that voters are nutty. 534 00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:05,040 Speaker 7: Politics is unpredictable. 535 00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:07,399 Speaker 3: Anything could happen, and so I wouldn't dare venture a 536 00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:08,680 Speaker 3: prediction publicly. 537 00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:12,440 Speaker 1: Josh, Nancy Jordan, thanks so much for coming on. 538 00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:15,040 Speaker 5: The show, Thanks for having us. 539 00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:17,040 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to us here at The Big Take. 540 00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:20,880 Speaker 1: It's a daily podcast from Bloomberg and iHeartRadio. For more 541 00:27:20,920 --> 00:27:25,199 Speaker 1: shows from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or 542 00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:27,959 Speaker 1: wherever you listen, and we'd love to hear from you. 543 00:27:28,040 --> 00:27:31,480 Speaker 1: Email us questions or comments to Big Take at Bloomberg 544 00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:34,960 Speaker 1: dot net. The supervising producer of The Big Take is 545 00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:40,040 Speaker 1: Vicky Rgalina. Our senior producer is Catherine Fink. Rebecca Shasson 546 00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:44,280 Speaker 1: is our producer. Our associate producer is Sam Gibauer. Bilde 547 00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:48,399 Speaker 1: Garcia is our engineer. Our original music was composed by 548 00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:52,800 Speaker 1: Leo Sidrin. I'm Weskasova. We'll be back tomorrow with another 549 00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:53,359 Speaker 1: Big Take.