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Speaker 1: Ridiculous Crime is a production of iHeartRadio, Elizabeth Dutton Dave Kustin.

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Speaker 2: Elizabeth, do you know what's ridiculous?

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Speaker 1: You know what I do? I do lay on me

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Speaker 1: normally because you know you're here guesting and I love that.

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Speaker 1: I'm not going to give you a mashup. Oh, I'm

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Speaker 1: not going to portray you with a mashup. But it

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Speaker 1: is Cheetos related, Okay, so I apologize for that. But

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Speaker 1: there's this guy in Seattle, right He's a TikToker. He

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Speaker 1: goes by the name Sunday Nobody. He posted a video

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Speaker 1: where he made a custom built tomb for a bag

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Speaker 1: of flaming hot Cheetos because he wanted to preserve the

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Speaker 1: snack quote for centuries. I like this, he said, yeah,

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Speaker 1: he said quote. I just do these meme art projects.

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Speaker 1: It's a fun side of hobby. Right now. My dead

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Speaker 1: job is working as an animator. When I'm not a

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Speaker 1: nine to five, I usually I'm usually my art studio.

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Speaker 1: That's what he told Newsweek. I don't have TikTok. I

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Speaker 1: haven't watched the video, so I'm just guessing on how

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Speaker 1: he sounds. But anyway, three thousand pounds of concrete, you know,

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Speaker 1: like the by the eighty pound bag. He it cost

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Speaker 1: him like over twelve hundred dollars to put this thing together.

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Speaker 1: He's keeping the location a secret. It's somewhere in the

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Speaker 1: Pacific Northwest, and the Cheetos. It's not like he has

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Speaker 1: like this big tomb, right and it looks like a coffin,

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Speaker 1: and instead of filling it with like chalk full of

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Speaker 1: flame and hot Cheeto bags, he just has one that

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Speaker 1: he placed. He like cast it in resin, and then

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Speaker 1: it's all torture chambers suspended by chains in there. A

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Speaker 1: ton of people sent this to us in a million

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Speaker 1: different ways, and I don't know what to think.

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Speaker 2: It's just like a like a fifty shades of gray

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Speaker 2: with a Cheeto.

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Speaker 1: Yes, it is fifty shades of orange. It's terrible, he said.

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Speaker 2: I think there's a thing I'm missing, like there's a

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Speaker 2: there's something so.

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Speaker 1: Steeping, he said. I thought I'd been bored many times

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Speaker 1: in my life, but now I've realized that I've never

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Speaker 1: truly I've never been truly genuinely bored, like Cheeto's sarcophagus board.

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Speaker 1: That's what a user commented, And then someone else said

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Speaker 1: they'll either think we worshiped hot cheetos or that they

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Speaker 1: destroyed us all. So anyway, that's like, that's the reaction

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Speaker 1: to it. This guy, I don't know, he's like mister

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Speaker 1: art guy. But I'm with you. I feel like I'm

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Speaker 1: missing something like there's a reference or I don't know whatever,

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Speaker 1: But you know what, bottom line, ridiculous.

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Speaker 2: That is ridiculous. I mean it's one of those things

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Speaker 2: like thank you. I don't know if you remember, in

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Speaker 2: the early days of the Internet, people would do like

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Speaker 2: fun little projects and there would always be some like

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Speaker 2: basically energy vampire who'd be like God, who has all

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Speaker 2: that time on their hands to do whatever? And and

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Speaker 2: I feel like now I'm just embracing it. I'm like,

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Speaker 2: more power to you. I'm glad that you found the

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Speaker 2: time to do this, that you cook this up, and

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Speaker 2: that whatever it means to you, like you've found your truth.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, God, bless more ridiculous power to the notion

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Speaker 1: of the energy vampire. We have a lot of like

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Speaker 1: energy and happiness vampires. I'm guilty of it a little bit,

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Speaker 1: but uh, I think I'm trying to mend my ways,

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Speaker 1: you know, try not to make fun of people. For

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Speaker 1: the things they like.

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Speaker 2: Well, that that is that's ridiculous.

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Speaker 1: It is ridiculous.

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Speaker 2: Cough guts for a cheetos.

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Speaker 1: Ridiculous, is so ridiculous.

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Speaker 2: I will tell you what else is ridiculous, please do

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Speaker 2: if you'll permit, okay, pulling off a series of fairly

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Speaker 2: elaborate cons, none of which have any connection to bagging

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Speaker 2: really any amount of money.

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Speaker 1: Wait, cons for CON's sake.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, they're just like I mean, this guy and I

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Speaker 2: can't wait to tell you about him. He's he turns

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Speaker 2: some like crazy things, which you would think we are like, Okay,

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Speaker 2: so then you're gonna get paid. Okay, no, no, so

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Speaker 2: that you're gonna do that, and then you're gonna get

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Speaker 2: a big bag of money. But it turns out there's

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Speaker 2: really nothing at the end of that rainbow. Oh wow,

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Speaker 2: this is ridiculous crime A podcast about absurd and outrageous capers.

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Speaker 2: Heis and cons. It is always ninety nine percent murder free,

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Speaker 2: and it is one ridiculous.

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Speaker 1: Yes, Elizabeth Dave, I almost said, Zaren Dave.

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Speaker 2: Do you remember how I got the idea for this one?

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Speaker 1: No wait, newspapers dot Com?

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Speaker 2: Yes, uh no, actually no, so so this was you

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Speaker 2: probably don't. You're not going to put two and two

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Speaker 2: together because you don't know.

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Speaker 1: What rarely do?

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Speaker 2: Of course I rarely. Yeah, I mean you get five

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Speaker 2: when you put them together. It was just after one

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Speaker 2: of your some Art Forger episodes, and I was like

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Speaker 2: lazily searching eBay for Art Forger paintings or something like that.

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Speaker 2: Oh my god, yes, and like because I'm a little

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Speaker 2: bit obsessed with like I would love to find like

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Speaker 2: an Elmere or something. I mean, obviously I could never

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Speaker 2: afford an Elmir, but one of these things that one

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Speaker 2: of these folks have painted to put up that's like,

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Speaker 2: you know, just maybe a little sketch or something. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: but yeah, so I'm looking for that stuff, and I

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Speaker 2: came across this listing and I'm going to try to

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Speaker 2: show it to you. Let's see if I can do that. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So it was a guy. He's in like county blues,

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Speaker 2: handsome looking chap and he's got some like pieces of

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Speaker 2: paper in his hand. Is this ringing a bell at all?

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Speaker 1: No?

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Speaker 3: Here?

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Speaker 2: Hang on?

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah yeah yeah. Okay, okay, So.

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Speaker 2: You don't read any of my text do you?

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Speaker 1: I do. I don't read anybody's texts ever. Wait, do

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Speaker 1: you sent this to me as a text?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? So anyway, Uh, the title of the auction is

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Speaker 2: nineteen forty six photo Charles Edwards and then redacted redacted

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Speaker 2: redacted because I want the rest to be a surprise. Okay, So,

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Speaker 2: like I said, it's like very handsome man in County Blues.

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Speaker 2: He seems to reading a letter, and I should say

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Speaker 2: as like you can see here the County Blues in

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Speaker 2: nineteen forty six, they were incredibly stylist.

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Speaker 1: We maybe, yeah, it's very like Japanese workwear now.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, like I think mister die Workware on Twitter would

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Speaker 2: probably write about twelve tweets about the cut and.

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Speaker 1: The drape of just I would I want his take

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Speaker 1: on this. I love that guy, by the way, maybe we'll.

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Speaker 2: Reach out to him after this, Yeah, after this, heirs.

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Speaker 2: But anyway, so from here, I'm off to the races,

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Speaker 2: and you're going to find out why. What I'm sitting

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Speaker 2: there thinking is like who was this man and why

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Speaker 2: is he sitting in jail pondering his plight? And why

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Speaker 2: did it come up for the word forgery. So today's

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Speaker 2: story takes place mainly in the early to mid nineteen forties,

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Speaker 2: long before the civil rights movement, or Landmark Brown versus

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Speaker 2: Board of Education decision in nineteen fifty four that finally

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Speaker 2: desegregated schools, among other things. So, in addition to the

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Speaker 2: slants of various news publishers that you get when you

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Speaker 2: go back in time or really anytime, you also had

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Speaker 2: newspapers that cater to white people, and in a place

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Speaker 2: like Los Angeles, you had black owned newspapers.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So there are two particularly prominent ones at that time,

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Speaker 2: the Los Angeles Tribune and the California Eagle. Okay, they're

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Speaker 2: both heavy sources in today's story. So it's the early

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Speaker 2: nineteen forties. If you're reading the black owned newspapers, you're

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Speaker 2: going to be pretty familiar with this name, Charles Edwards.

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Speaker 2: You know him as like a sometimes columnist. He's billed

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Speaker 2: as a movie producer and a cinematographer, as a youth leader,

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Speaker 2: possibly as a war hero hu And here are the

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Speaker 2: kinds of things you'd be reading about him in the

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Speaker 2: California Eagle or things byline to Edwards or about him.

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Speaker 2: So in nineteen thirty nine you read this glowing profile

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Speaker 2: of how he became a movie producer and how the

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Speaker 2: black youth of California should find their own way. You

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Speaker 2: read various advice columns more about to the youth, and

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Speaker 2: every time he lists himself he lists himself as a

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Speaker 2: youth leader or a motion picture director or both. Okay,

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Speaker 2: So then like turn the page or a week there's

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Speaker 2: an article about his dad coming to visit and you're thinking, gosh,

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Speaker 2: this must be a very important person. Here's the article,

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Speaker 2: Charles Edwards Senior visits son here is wildly feted. The

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Speaker 2: visitors spent a day at the hal Roach lot watching

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Speaker 2: the Charioteers and the production of Road Show. While on

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Speaker 2: the coast, Edwards will take in the World's Fare at

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Speaker 2: San Francisco on Friday night. He'll be interviewed on the

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Speaker 2: Gold Hour. Afterwards, will be the guest of Mister and

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Speaker 2: Missus Bill Robinson at the Annual Police Show, which sounds

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Speaker 2: like a hoot.

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Speaker 1: Right, and.

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Speaker 2: He will attend a party at the home of Hattie

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Speaker 2: McDaniel Academy Award Star.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 2: So like, yeah, this guy must be a pretty big deal.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they're rolling out the carpet.

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Speaker 2: Next thing you know, you're reading about how Charles Edwards

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Speaker 2: Junior just did a big deal with Hal Roach Studios.

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Speaker 2: In nineteen forty one to make multiple pictures with a

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Speaker 2: galaxy of youth stars. Okay, next week you read a

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Speaker 2: multi part series of reports from the war. He claimed

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Speaker 2: that in nineteen thirty seven Charles Edwards interviewed Adolf Hitler

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Speaker 2: when he went to Germany with the World Conference of

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Speaker 2: Christian Youth. What and he was given permission by the

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Speaker 2: Nazi Feurer to inspect all the youth training camps.

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Speaker 1: What.

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Speaker 2: Pretty impressive guy, who, like I can't believe we've never

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Speaker 2: heard of him in twenty twenty four.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: He later also said that in nineteen forty two he

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Speaker 2: received a Distinguished Youth Award from President Roosevelt. And then

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Speaker 2: in nineteen forty two you see a strange mention in

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Speaker 2: the gossip columns. One columnist is talking about a follow

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Speaker 2: up on a tip he received that connected Edwards romantically

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Speaker 2: to a film starlet of the time. And I got

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Speaker 2: to read this for you because the language is incredible.

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Speaker 2: It starts out if you follow the old colume regularly

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Speaker 2: and he spells colum kol yum. Oh my god, yes,

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Speaker 2: you'll remember that. Two weeks ago, I said, Charles Edwards

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Speaker 2: gleefully informs me that he has engaged to the lovely

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Speaker 2: Gladys Snyder. Haven't investigated yet, but we'll let you know later.

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Speaker 2: I did not believe it at first, and meant to

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Speaker 2: call the young artist and ask her, but have been

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Speaker 2: so busy that I did not find time. Wish I

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Speaker 2: could copy the whole letter here, but she says it

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Speaker 2: was very humiliating for such a report to be made,

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Speaker 2: and that she hardly knows the guy.

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Speaker 1: Wait what.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's mind boggling that you know he's getting this

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Speaker 2: kind of coverage. And then he's also been to war

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Speaker 2: and he's also the famous filmmaker. Yeah yeah, And now, oh,

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Speaker 2: what's this In nineteen forty four, he's at the christening

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Speaker 2: of a warship. This is the Victory Ship Ida M.

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Speaker 2: Tarbell at cowship and there's a photo so you can

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Speaker 2: actually see him at this christening.

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Speaker 1: Sure he's everywhere. This guy's everywhere.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, he's a regular Zelig. So there's this

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Speaker 2: mix of things that read okay, things that are implausible.

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Speaker 2: There's a repetition of certain facts that start to make

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Speaker 2: you think like, okay, maybe this person does have some

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Speaker 2: notoriety or at least has done some of these things.

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Speaker 2: But then Elizabeth a bit later in this very same newspaper,

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Speaker 2: do you come across a different kind of headline? Ooh,

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Speaker 2: October twenty eighth, nineteen forty six, you read arrest of

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Speaker 2: Charles Edwards as forgery suspect. There's bizarre hoax on White

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Speaker 2: attorney and Bar association.

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Speaker 1: Whoa wow.

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Speaker 2: So you're running to the newsstand and grabbing some of

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Speaker 2: the other papers at the time. What does the La

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Speaker 2: Times say? Hoax lawyer Joiner paler of film stars booked

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Speaker 2: as forgery suspect. And I'll read you a little bit

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Speaker 2: of this one. Yeah, yeah, what authorities regard as a

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Speaker 2: fantastic masquerade ended in the county jail yesterday for a lanky,

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Speaker 2: soft spoken man of twenty eight booked on suspicion of forgery.

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Speaker 2: During the years covered by the investigation, the suspect was

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Speaker 2: asserted to have gained admission to the state bar and

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Speaker 2: been admitted to practice in federal courts by a hoax,

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Speaker 2: to have associated with numerous Hollywood notables, and to have

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Speaker 2: joined many organizations, some with opposed aims.

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Speaker 1: Oh, and then the.

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Speaker 2: Next day federal charges are added. So now your head

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Speaker 2: is absolutely spinning. A couple of days later, you go

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Speaker 2: back to your paper of record, the California Eagle, one

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Speaker 2: of the black owned papers, where you read Edwards's columns,

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Speaker 2: and you come across this weird letter from the editor

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Speaker 2: in chief quote. I emphatically deny that I ever recommended

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Speaker 2: Charles Edwards for admission to the State Bar Association, as

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Speaker 2: falsely reported in a news story in the Los Angeles

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Speaker 2: Daily News of October twenty ninth. I admit that Jerry

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Speaker 2: Geisler called me about an hour before going to court

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Speaker 2: and stated that he was glad to be of service

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Speaker 2: to me in sponsoring my nephew, Charles Edwards for the bar.

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Speaker 2: Like this, this is a Wendy's What's going on? It

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Speaker 2: goes on Immediately. I explained to mister Geisler that I

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Speaker 2: was not related to mister Edwards, and that, like many

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Speaker 2: other youngsters in the community, I had tried to help

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Speaker 2: Charles often referred to me as Auntie. I also explained

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Speaker 2: to mister Geisler that I understood that Edwards had been

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Speaker 2: studying law at the University of Southern California, but I

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Speaker 2: had no knowledge of his completing the course, and suggested

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Speaker 2: that some investigation be made mister Geisler asked me if

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Speaker 2: I knew of anything against Edward's record, and I answered

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Speaker 2: that I knew of some juvenile trouble. Geesler then said

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Speaker 2: he had examined Edwards state barcard and was satisfied with it.

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Speaker 2: I was so amazed by Jerry Geisler's sudden announcement that

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Speaker 2: he was sponsoring Edwards that I did, in my own

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Speaker 2: personal interests go to the courtroom. But I refuse to

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Speaker 2: be a party of the sponsoring group in a picture

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Speaker 2: that was taken. Nor did I publish the event in

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Speaker 2: The California Eagle, of which I am editor publisher and

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Speaker 2: she finishes. I know Charles Edwards to be a mentally

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Speaker 2: sick person, and over a period of years, have tried

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Speaker 2: to help him, as I have tried to help many

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Speaker 2: other youngsters. However, I have no intention of accepting responsibility

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Speaker 2: for the mistakes of others. Signed Charlotta a Bass, editor

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Speaker 2: publisher of the California Eagle.

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Speaker 1: Oh, Charlotta has no time for this.

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Speaker 2: What the hell is going on?

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Speaker 1: Oh she they tried to rope her in.

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Speaker 2: Oh well, she's also the one who's been publishing like

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Speaker 2: she's been agreeing to let him be this columnist, all

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Speaker 2: the weird stuff.

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Speaker 1: But he's gone like a step too far. He's he's

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Speaker 1: become overly familiar, it seems.

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Speaker 2: I guess so. And and in the course of this,

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Speaker 2: the case has absolutely made him into a minor celebrity.

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Speaker 2: So they're like breathless day by day reports from jail

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Speaker 2: on how he's doing, what he's eating. There's all kinds

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Speaker 2: of juicy sound bites attributed to him.

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Speaker 1: I love that. She's like, they wanted me to get

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Speaker 1: in the picture as part of this, and I said,

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Speaker 1: new New News.

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Speaker 2: Well, and the subtext I don't know if you picked

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Speaker 2: it up, but she says, like, well, I mean in

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Speaker 2: personal interest, I did go to the courthouse, so she

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Speaker 2: was going to vouch.

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Speaker 1: For him well, and probably also here's about this are

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Speaker 1: they are they using my name? I'm going to go

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Speaker 1: in there and check it out.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, and I'll get involved. But but I'm not

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Speaker 2: going to stand for the phone.

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Speaker 1: No, he is.

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Speaker 2: He is unwell, and this is on the down load,

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Speaker 2: Like I'm not going to publish it in my paper,

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Speaker 2: but but I am going to recommend him for the

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Speaker 2: state Bar and I am.

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Speaker 1: Going to publish it by writing this letter from the

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Speaker 1: editor now that things have editor's note. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: So so once he's arrested, there's like this parade of

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Speaker 2: photos of him with famous celebs, which is very strange,

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Speaker 2: like they're legit photos. It really looks like, oh, here's

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Speaker 2: him with with you know, Hattie McDaniel. H The press

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Speaker 2: is hooked, their theories flying like is he unwell, is

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Speaker 2: he a scoundrel? Is he just pure as the driven

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Speaker 2: snow and doesn't know any better?

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Speaker 1: Oh god, that's a good defense.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I just don't know. Well, you'll see like he's

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Speaker 2: got he's got a few defenses. But just in the

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Speaker 2: in the course of reading about this, here's a short

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Speaker 2: list of the epithets they used for him. Because he's,

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Speaker 2: as you saw in that picture, he's a handsome guy.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, totally.

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Speaker 2: Lanky, soft spoken man. Charlie Boyce still making with mystery,

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Speaker 2: California's dreamy kid, Dick the Slip, which I guess was

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Speaker 2: who an expression of the time. Yeah, Central Avenue's gay masquerader,

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Speaker 2: well publicized super Duper, and finally Charles the Audacious.

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Speaker 1: Oh Charles, I like the super Duper. He's a real

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Speaker 1: super deeper.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so I'm going to freeze time right here because

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Speaker 2: I can do that.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yes you can.

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Speaker 2: Let's roll some of what my fourth grade teacher, Ms.

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Speaker 2: Nora Kennedy would call advertisements. Yes, and then and then

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Speaker 2: we'll regroup. So taken, Takenney, everybody, you got it.

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Speaker 1: Elizabeth, you're still with me, Dave, I'm here and I'm ready.

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Speaker 2: Excellent. So we've got Charles Edwards, mister Dick the slip,

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Speaker 2: mister Charles the audacious. He is in a heap of trouble.

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Speaker 2: How about if I run down what we do know

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Speaker 2: about him, and then we'll get into the crimes he's

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Speaker 2: accused of doing. And then if you and the rude

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Speaker 2: dudes are good, I will unfreeze time and we can

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Speaker 2: pick up the trial in progress.

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Speaker 1: Yes, good sounds good?

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Speaker 2: All right? So Charles Joseph Edwards Junior was born March fifth,

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Speaker 2: nineteen eighteen, in New Orleans. From what I could tell,

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Speaker 2: his mom and dad divorced when he was about four,

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Speaker 2: and his mom took him to Los Angeles, where she

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Speaker 2: had existing family. Now, I imagine life was pretty tough

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Speaker 2: at that time for a black single mother and child

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Speaker 2: coming to LA with very little and trying to get

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Speaker 2: by on their own right, like in nineteen in the

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Speaker 2: twenties nineteen yeah, yikes.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And reports from one paper also suggest that her relatives

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Speaker 2: in La hated her ex husband so much so that

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Speaker 2: they took it out on Charles Junior, thinking like, oh,

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Speaker 2: this is what you got from that guy, and yeah,

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Speaker 2: and would give them no help. It's hard to fact check,

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Speaker 2: but you know that probably adds up.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it tracks, I guess.

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Speaker 2: And Charles would say later that this is what motivated

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Speaker 2: him in life and he wanted to prove to them

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Speaker 2: that he was a somebody and capable of great things.

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Speaker 2: And you know, maybe that makes sense. Who knows. Maybe

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Speaker 2: we can come back to this in the ridiculous takeaways

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00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:06,000
Speaker 2: or not. We'll see. What we know about his dad,

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Speaker 2: Charles Senior is that he worked for a company that

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Speaker 2: would merge or get acquired by Standard Oil. He ended

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00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:14,040
Speaker 2: up working for ESO or Standard Oil for over fifty years.

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Speaker 2: There's just like big celebration when he retires, and he

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Speaker 2: has other kids, and it seems like he must have

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Speaker 2: kept in touch with Junior, because Junior is mentioned in

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Speaker 2: some of these articles, and he's actually also mentioned in

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00:18:26,520 --> 00:18:29,800
Speaker 2: Senior's obituary. But back to Charles Junior. It's believed that

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Speaker 2: he went to high school in LA and got quote

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Speaker 2: a record number of f's. He did maybe a year

371
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Speaker 2: of night school at Loyola Pre Law after that. One

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Speaker 2: reporter has her doubts because of the way he pronounced

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Speaker 2: it Loyola. It was like al apostrophe Yolaola. I don't know, yeah,

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Speaker 2: and I'm assuming that's Loyla Merrymount, right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I was suppose so yeah, okay, because.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, the weird thing is like he was raised in

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Speaker 2: New Orleans, so it could have been Loyola there.

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00:18:58,160 --> 00:19:01,480
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, good point, well somewhere it was somewhere.

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00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:04,840
Speaker 2: Yeah. And here's where his story gets a little hairy. So,

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00:19:05,440 --> 00:19:07,879
Speaker 2: as Charles explained it, he had been convicted of a

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00:19:07,960 --> 00:19:10,320
Speaker 2: felony a bit earlier, at age twenty, which would be

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00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:14,000
Speaker 2: probably like nineteen thirty eight, nineteen forty around there. He

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00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:16,640
Speaker 2: says he got into a car accident and each driver

384
00:19:16,760 --> 00:19:18,600
Speaker 2: had agreed to pay for their own repairs. They're like,

385
00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:21,520
Speaker 2: let's keep insurance out of this. But he didn't have

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00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:24,520
Speaker 2: any money, so and I quote, he wrote a check

387
00:19:24,560 --> 00:19:27,880
Speaker 2: to himself, signed it himself, and cashed it a bank

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Speaker 2: where he had no funds, having no funds in any bank,

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Speaker 2: using the bank book of his employer as reference. Oh

390
00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:37,399
Speaker 2: even then, you know, even in nineteen forty, this was

391
00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:40,320
Speaker 2: not hard for the bank to figure out. Right, So

392
00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:42,360
Speaker 2: he's hit with a felony conviction. He got a ninety

393
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Speaker 2: day sentence and three years probation and at least, as

394
00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:47,800
Speaker 2: he tells that, this felony conviction would get in the

395
00:19:47,840 --> 00:19:52,119
Speaker 2: way of every attempt he made to try to better himself. Yeah,

396
00:19:52,160 --> 00:19:55,240
Speaker 2: but back to Loyola in his in his night program

397
00:19:55,280 --> 00:19:58,639
Speaker 2: pre law, one day, his professor comes in and says, hey, everybody,

398
00:19:58,760 --> 00:20:01,639
Speaker 2: like it's time to file intent to become a lawyer

399
00:20:01,680 --> 00:20:03,119
Speaker 2: if that's what you think you want to do. And

400
00:20:03,160 --> 00:20:05,440
Speaker 2: by the way, one thing is, you cannot become a

401
00:20:05,520 --> 00:20:08,160
Speaker 2: lawyer if you've been convicted of a felony, won't. Wah

402
00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:10,639
Speaker 2: hm hmm. So that's where he says, Oh, so I

403
00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:13,600
Speaker 2: bounced from the program because I realized, like it's gonna

404
00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:16,439
Speaker 2: happen for me. Yeah, but there was something about the

405
00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:19,480
Speaker 2: law that caught his attention just before he found out

406
00:20:19,480 --> 00:20:22,320
Speaker 2: that lawyers could join the bar with a felony conviction

407
00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:24,880
Speaker 2: if they got a letter of recommendation from the clerk

408
00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:27,480
Speaker 2: of the State Supreme Court, saying that they vouch for them.

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00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:29,560
Speaker 1: Oh okay, that makes sense, which.

410
00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:31,480
Speaker 2: You know, not a lawyer, I have no idea about

411
00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:32,520
Speaker 2: the veracity of these things.

412
00:20:32,600 --> 00:20:34,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, it makes sense to me.

413
00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:38,159
Speaker 2: But Charles is a resourceful fellow, and he says, I

414
00:20:38,280 --> 00:20:40,240
Speaker 2: just phoned up the clerk. I asked her a recommendation,

415
00:20:40,280 --> 00:20:44,160
Speaker 2: and they said yes straight away. And the reporter speculates

416
00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:46,840
Speaker 2: like maybe they thought there was already a practicing lawyer

417
00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:49,879
Speaker 2: named Charles Edwards, and he was just like needed. There

418
00:20:49,920 --> 00:20:51,960
Speaker 2: was like a triviality that like, oh, yeah, I need

419
00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:53,960
Speaker 2: this letter for something or other. Could you just type

420
00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:54,399
Speaker 2: something up there.

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00:20:54,480 --> 00:20:58,760
Speaker 1: It's a common name, you'd imagine, Yeah, it's not unusual.

422
00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:03,480
Speaker 2: So Charles smartly sent a white classmate to pick it up,

423
00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:06,720
Speaker 2: and he's got it. Boom, He's got what he needed.

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00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:08,679
Speaker 2: And so that's how he says. Ultimately he got his

425
00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:12,800
Speaker 2: California State barcard. So next he sets his sight on

426
00:21:12,880 --> 00:21:16,320
Speaker 2: the Federal bar and again, I'm not a lawyer, and

427
00:21:16,359 --> 00:21:18,159
Speaker 2: details of this are all sketched, So this is the

428
00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:20,680
Speaker 2: best I could put together. He decides that he would

429
00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:23,080
Speaker 2: get a recommendation for this for the Federal Bar from

430
00:21:23,119 --> 00:21:25,720
Speaker 2: the best of the best. A famous Hollywood lawyer of

431
00:21:25,760 --> 00:21:28,400
Speaker 2: the time whose name you have now heard, Jerry Geisler.

432
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Speaker 2: Jerry has handled cases for an amazing array of celebrities.

433
00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:38,080
Speaker 2: We're talking Clarence Darrow, Charlie Chaplin, Errol Flynn, Marilyn Monroe.

434
00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:41,200
Speaker 2: He I think he handled like the divorce the DiMaggio

435
00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:42,280
Speaker 2: Monroe divorce case.

436
00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:43,800
Speaker 1: Oh wow, he's the guy.

437
00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:47,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, And apparently he's so famous that the phrase get

438
00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:50,040
Speaker 2: me Geisler was like a famous thing that the press

439
00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:51,960
Speaker 2: would say anytime a celebrity got in trouble.

440
00:21:52,119 --> 00:21:52,359
Speaker 1: Yeah.

441
00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:56,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I'll let Almina Davis, editor of the black

442
00:21:56,880 --> 00:21:59,800
Speaker 2: owned Los Angeles Tribune, explain what happened. This is from

443
00:21:59,840 --> 00:22:02,919
Speaker 2: like long editorial she wrote after interviewing Edwards and then

444
00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:05,919
Speaker 2: reflecting on everything he had said and putting some pieces together.

445
00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:08,800
Speaker 2: So it's like a she had said, she wrote it

446
00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:10,560
Speaker 2: one way, and then she thought about it and talked

447
00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:12,359
Speaker 2: to her owner and was like, oh wait, some of

448
00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:14,560
Speaker 2: this says't add up. So then she writes this like

449
00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:17,240
Speaker 2: other piece explaining like what she think is happening. So

450
00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:21,680
Speaker 2: with Geisler, here's what she says. Quote The Geisler incident

451
00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:24,600
Speaker 2: was another stroke of genius. Needing a sponsor before the

452
00:22:24,640 --> 00:22:26,720
Speaker 2: federal bar Charles decided he would like to have the

453
00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:29,119
Speaker 2: best known mouthpiece in the state, and went down and

454
00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:32,119
Speaker 2: asked Jerry Geisler, how's about it? It was an edwardism.

455
00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:35,760
Speaker 2: One can't help but admire. Geisler was his sucker. Man

456
00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:37,879
Speaker 2: of the world, man so much of the world that

457
00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:40,320
Speaker 2: he probably never has a moment to give, and thought

458
00:22:40,320 --> 00:22:43,480
Speaker 2: these less fortunate than himself, the widows and the orphans,

459
00:22:43,720 --> 00:22:48,199
Speaker 2: the starving Armenians, the Arkansas sharecroppers, the oppressed negroes. He

460
00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:50,439
Speaker 2: probably saw Edwards as the answer to a prayer he

461
00:22:50,480 --> 00:22:54,000
Speaker 2: really intended to get around to praying someday. And there's

462
00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:56,320
Speaker 2: a quote within the quote. This is like her attributing

463
00:22:56,359 --> 00:22:58,800
Speaker 2: it a young negro struggling to get ahead in a

464
00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:01,199
Speaker 2: world that doesn't always treat him as kindly as it should.

465
00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:04,040
Speaker 2: Here was Jerry's chance to get in a few credits

466
00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:07,560
Speaker 2: with his maker. Do it your dog gone right, He'll

467
00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:10,280
Speaker 2: do it. Think nothing of it. Glad to do it, always,

468
00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:12,600
Speaker 2: glad to help a member of your race. Admire your

469
00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:15,240
Speaker 2: race very much. Think it's a darn shame. The way

470
00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:18,720
Speaker 2: they treat you down South. You're to be congratulated, young man.

471
00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:21,159
Speaker 2: I know you'll do a lot for your people. Once again,

472
00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:22,520
Speaker 2: Charles was in.

473
00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:27,240
Speaker 1: Wow, there's a lot to I'm back there if I

474
00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:31,359
Speaker 1: would have voted for Obama a third time. Energy in

475
00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:33,040
Speaker 1: that totally.

476
00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:35,359
Speaker 2: And you know, like I'll meet a Davis, editor in

477
00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:38,439
Speaker 2: chief of a black newspaper, and this is the you know,

478
00:23:38,480 --> 00:23:43,480
Speaker 2: the forties where there's like a few you know, black

479
00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:46,520
Speaker 2: lawyers and black professionals who have really fought tooth and

480
00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:48,320
Speaker 2: nail to get ahead. But for the most part, the

481
00:23:48,359 --> 00:23:52,480
Speaker 2: country still sees all black people as second class citizens.

482
00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:54,959
Speaker 1: And she's calling it out. Oh yeah, yea.

483
00:23:55,840 --> 00:23:58,879
Speaker 2: So one thing she notes is that Edward succeeded in

484
00:23:58,920 --> 00:24:01,000
Speaker 2: many of these cons because the people he was conning,

485
00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:03,440
Speaker 2: in some sense wanted to be conned, which is something

486
00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:05,760
Speaker 2: that I think you in Zar and have both pointed out.

487
00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:07,120
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah.

488
00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:09,040
Speaker 2: Over the episodes. They kind of wanted to believe that

489
00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:10,960
Speaker 2: here's a guy in need of help who's like the

490
00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:13,200
Speaker 2: perfect puzzle piece for their emotional needs too.

491
00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:16,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, it makes them feel really good about themselves.

492
00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:18,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know it's not always like oh can

493
00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:21,680
Speaker 2: you can you lend me some dollars. Sometimes it's like, yeah,

494
00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:24,040
Speaker 2: do me a turn. And I think Zaren has said

495
00:24:24,080 --> 00:24:26,440
Speaker 2: to me before, if you really want to ingratiate yourself

496
00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:28,160
Speaker 2: to somebody, let them do you a favor.

497
00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:30,320
Speaker 1: Right, Yeah, exactly, exactly.

498
00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:33,480
Speaker 2: So I also want to draw your attention back to

499
00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:35,840
Speaker 2: the editorial that the editor of that other black owned

500
00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:38,960
Speaker 2: newspaper wrote when he got arrested, where Charlotta Bass says

501
00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:41,680
Speaker 2: that Jerry Geisler called her right to get her recommendation

502
00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:44,440
Speaker 2: to sponsor Charles for the bar. Now, remember she mentioned

503
00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:46,879
Speaker 2: Geisler calling her for a reference and then saying she

504
00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:49,480
Speaker 2: ultimately agreed to help out even though she knew Charles

505
00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:53,359
Speaker 2: was quote unwell right, mm hmm. So this guy he

506
00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:55,679
Speaker 2: Boots dropped his way in and everybody kind of went

507
00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:57,080
Speaker 2: along with it, even when they had a clear and

508
00:24:57,119 --> 00:24:59,600
Speaker 2: obvious reason not to. It's not like it was subtle.

509
00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:00,440
Speaker 1: Yeah.

510
00:25:00,480 --> 00:25:02,719
Speaker 2: And once he has these credentials, he got an actual

511
00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:05,280
Speaker 2: job as a lawyer's assistant, which is kind of funny

512
00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:08,320
Speaker 2: to think about, Like he goes through all this trouble

513
00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:09,960
Speaker 2: just to get like a low paying job.

514
00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:11,000
Speaker 1: Yeah.

515
00:25:11,240 --> 00:25:14,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, So he works for a lawyer named Richardson for

516
00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:16,399
Speaker 2: a time doing pretty low key things like he's filing

517
00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:20,639
Speaker 2: continuances and handling other documents. He also seems to have

518
00:25:20,680 --> 00:25:23,000
Speaker 2: done a lot of swaning around in Hollywood, although it's

519
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:25,600
Speaker 2: hard to separate fact from fiction here. He would later

520
00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:28,800
Speaker 2: say he quote worked for Interracial Unity and in that

521
00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:32,480
Speaker 2: capacity worked with Orson Wells hmm. He says he worked

522
00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:35,640
Speaker 2: with Benny Davis in Hollywood canteen activities. And then he's

523
00:25:35,640 --> 00:25:37,760
Speaker 2: got some connection to the USO, or at least claims

524
00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:41,240
Speaker 2: to hmm. And he says he has been quote working

525
00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:44,560
Speaker 2: actively in the support of various campaigns of various Democratic

526
00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:48,240
Speaker 2: candidates Will Rogers, Helen Douglas, Jack Shelley, and Robert Kenny.

527
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:50,760
Speaker 2: And the weird thing is there are these photos with

528
00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:53,680
Speaker 2: him with famous actors and celebs. There's a photo with

529
00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:59,359
Speaker 2: Van Johnson, Victor Mature, Lena Rome, Carmen Miranda, and like

530
00:25:59,440 --> 00:26:01,119
Speaker 2: he must have just been really good at horning in

531
00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:02,440
Speaker 2: on photo ops, is what I'm thinking.

532
00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:05,240
Speaker 1: Remember doctor Dante did that where he'd be like, hey,

533
00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:07,280
Speaker 1: can I get a picture, and then he'd use it

534
00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:11,800
Speaker 1: as like an endorsement from these people, And yeah, and

535
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:14,600
Speaker 1: it seems like this dude. He takes like what could

536
00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:19,080
Speaker 1: be plausible scenarios, and it's and on things that perhaps

537
00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:21,879
Speaker 1: would be a little underreported, so you're not going to

538
00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:24,320
Speaker 1: see it all over the press. And it would make sense,

539
00:26:24,480 --> 00:26:26,440
Speaker 1: you know, like the Orson Wells stuff. You're like, that

540
00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:27,960
Speaker 1: kind of makes sense. That tracks.

541
00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:31,199
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's also positive. It's like, yeah, Persona Bulson's

542
00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:32,919
Speaker 2: gonna be like, no, I'm not working for racial unity,

543
00:26:32,920 --> 00:26:34,800
Speaker 2: what are you talking about? I mean he might but

544
00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:39,320
Speaker 2: yeah and yeah. And the other thing is probably with

545
00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:41,119
Speaker 2: Jerry Geisler, and this may have even been what he

546
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:44,439
Speaker 2: was thinking. With him as his sponsor, he represents all

547
00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:46,560
Speaker 2: these people, so he's probably like, hey, Jerry, can I

548
00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:47,719
Speaker 2: get a picture with so and so?

549
00:26:48,280 --> 00:26:51,879
Speaker 1: Like yeah, sure kid, you know yeah, and the security,

550
00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:55,439
Speaker 1: the security around people wasn't so tight, you know.

551
00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:57,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, you could probably like stroll up in the middle

552
00:26:57,960 --> 00:27:00,080
Speaker 2: of a photo op or an interview.

553
00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:02,800
Speaker 1: And yeah that they hit him up at the brown derby.

554
00:27:03,240 --> 00:27:07,560
Speaker 2: There you go. So he's or what was the guy's name, Michael, Michael.

555
00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:11,280
Speaker 1: Roman Romanov, Yeah, romanovs so.

556
00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:13,720
Speaker 2: And he's also the other thing about his his way

557
00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:16,720
Speaker 2: of being is he's a joiner. He joined as many

558
00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:20,000
Speaker 2: organizations as he could find, no matter their political stripe.

559
00:27:20,080 --> 00:27:20,480
Speaker 1: Mm hmm.

560
00:27:21,000 --> 00:27:23,679
Speaker 2: In fact, when he was arrested, he had membership cards

561
00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:27,960
Speaker 2: with the KKK but also been a breath wait and

562
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:30,359
Speaker 2: also the Communist Party. And he's he's at least black

563
00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:34,840
Speaker 2: presenting for sure. Oh yeah, and he said, you know,

564
00:27:34,920 --> 00:27:38,000
Speaker 2: he's national president of the National Youth Organization. And then

565
00:27:38,040 --> 00:27:40,399
Speaker 2: he lists off like other organizations he's a member of

566
00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:43,520
Speaker 2: or a leader in, and it's Benaborreth KKK, Knights of

567
00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:47,080
Speaker 2: Columbus or Knights of Columbia. I don't know if that's

568
00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:50,600
Speaker 2: the same thing. Who knows the Gerald L. K. Smith Organization,

569
00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:53,640
Speaker 2: the Communist Party and the Anti Fascist League.

570
00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:56,240
Speaker 1: Everything's probably like just a little bit off. So it's

571
00:27:56,280 --> 00:27:58,639
Speaker 1: not Knights of Columbus, it's Knights of Columbia. And the

572
00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:03,640
Speaker 1: KKK is the letter K letter, k q U A, why.

573
00:28:04,720 --> 00:28:08,720
Speaker 2: Cuban, the kk Cuban Foundation. But but no, like when

574
00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:10,800
Speaker 2: they bust him, he has these cards on him, so

575
00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:13,119
Speaker 2: he really you know, at that time, you couldn't like

576
00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:15,000
Speaker 2: sign up through computer like he would have had to

577
00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:18,360
Speaker 2: have actually gone somewhere and told somebody who wants to join.

578
00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:20,160
Speaker 1: Or forged the cards.

579
00:28:20,119 --> 00:28:22,479
Speaker 2: There you go, yeah, that's also possible. Yeah, but it's

580
00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:23,760
Speaker 2: a lot of work, like it might.

581
00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:24,720
Speaker 1: Be, there's a lot of work.

582
00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:25,119
Speaker 2: Yeah.

583
00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:25,800
Speaker 1: Yeah.

584
00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:28,240
Speaker 2: So and he's asked about this later and he says

585
00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:30,640
Speaker 2: something about, you know, I wanted to understand how these

586
00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:33,280
Speaker 2: organizations work from the inside so that I can better

587
00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:37,040
Speaker 2: work towards racial harmony and world peace. Well, I mean.

588
00:28:37,119 --> 00:28:39,920
Speaker 1: Again, maybe, but like you're going, yeah, then you know I.

589
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:42,720
Speaker 2: Could see that, Elizabeth. This is what we in the

590
00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:48,880
Speaker 2: deli meat slicing business call a little thin I was

591
00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:51,760
Speaker 2: a deli meat slicer. So where are you? I say

592
00:28:51,800 --> 00:28:52,920
Speaker 2: that in good faith. Yeah.

593
00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:54,600
Speaker 1: All your fingers intact.

594
00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:57,480
Speaker 2: All my fingers intact. Although there is that like it's

595
00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:00,080
Speaker 2: a it's a crazy weird feeling that when you work

596
00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:02,640
Speaker 2: in a deli you are staring at the slicer sometimes

597
00:29:02,640 --> 00:29:04,920
Speaker 2: thinking like what would happen? What would happen if I

598
00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:05,880
Speaker 2: just stuck my hand in there?

599
00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:07,920
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I could totally see that. I would. I

600
00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:10,320
Speaker 1: would have those intrusive thoughts. Not that I'd want to

601
00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:12,840
Speaker 1: do it, but it's like I have poultry shears in

602
00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:16,320
Speaker 1: my kitchen, and anytime I'm like, you know, spatchcocking a

603
00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:18,840
Speaker 1: chicken and really just like cutting through bone. I'm mad.

604
00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:21,480
Speaker 1: I get terrified that my finger's going to get stuck

605
00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:23,440
Speaker 1: up in there, and it's just like poop and I'll

606
00:29:23,480 --> 00:29:26,720
Speaker 1: watch like the tip of my index finger go bouncing

607
00:29:26,760 --> 00:29:27,600
Speaker 1: across the counter.

608
00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:29,960
Speaker 2: So it's a strange thing that human brains do.

609
00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:32,120
Speaker 1: Yeah.

610
00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:35,520
Speaker 2: So, once this stuff hit the national papers, the Louisiana

611
00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:38,080
Speaker 2: Press got their mojo working too, and Louisiana Press is

612
00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:40,520
Speaker 2: on it. And it turns out he had pulled some

613
00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:44,600
Speaker 2: shenanigans with the Louisiana bar as well. Oh he somehow

614
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:48,040
Speaker 2: got letters of recommendation from quote leading Negro citizens, including

615
00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:53,320
Speaker 2: a YMCA executive secretary, two lawyers, and a minister. Now, Elizabeth,

616
00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:55,200
Speaker 2: how the hell do you think he was pulling all

617
00:29:55,200 --> 00:29:57,600
Speaker 2: this off? Was it as easy as like getting someone

618
00:29:57,640 --> 00:29:58,880
Speaker 2: on the phone and sweet talking them?

619
00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:00,880
Speaker 1: I think so.

620
00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:03,200
Speaker 2: Rather than tell you the answer to that question, or

621
00:30:03,240 --> 00:30:06,200
Speaker 2: even letting you guess anymore, I want you to be

622
00:30:06,280 --> 00:30:09,600
Speaker 2: about the answer to that question, Elizabeth, close.

623
00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:11,080
Speaker 1: Your eyes as it closed.

624
00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:15,320
Speaker 2: I want you to picture it. You are in a

625
00:30:15,360 --> 00:30:18,320
Speaker 2: small law office in the Central Business District of New Orleans.

626
00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:20,600
Speaker 2: It's on Poyter Street on the other side of Canal

627
00:30:20,640 --> 00:30:23,520
Speaker 2: from the French Quarter, right by Mother's restaurant, home of

628
00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:26,080
Speaker 2: the best Poe Boy sandwich with debris back then and

629
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:31,160
Speaker 2: now stately industrial, but also quite variable from block to block.

630
00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:34,080
Speaker 2: Think you know gas street lamps, air thick as a cake,

631
00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:39,040
Speaker 2: and giant prehistoric bugs. Your name is Nicole Abert. You're

632
00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:42,200
Speaker 2: the gal Friday to a famous black attorney named apterau.

633
00:30:43,040 --> 00:30:45,280
Speaker 2: Ap is in his office reviewing the case files for

634
00:30:45,320 --> 00:30:47,280
Speaker 2: a family that was thrown out of their home by

635
00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:51,320
Speaker 2: unscrupulous land speculators. You are in the front room, lazily

636
00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:54,720
Speaker 2: typing up notes from a deposition. You hear the jingle

637
00:30:54,720 --> 00:30:56,400
Speaker 2: of the door as a handsome young man in an

638
00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:59,920
Speaker 2: impeccable three piece suit glides through the door. He asked

639
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:02,800
Speaker 2: speak to mister Tureau about a pressing matter. You look

640
00:31:02,840 --> 00:31:04,880
Speaker 2: in your appointment book and your Rolodex, but don't find

641
00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:08,760
Speaker 2: this young man's name anywhere. He's polite, but grows obviously impatient.

642
00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:10,840
Speaker 2: It's nearing the end of your morning shift and you're

643
00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:12,480
Speaker 2: due to meet friends at a bar in the quarter

644
00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:15,480
Speaker 2: for a lunchtime happy hour. Anyone in the legal profession

645
00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:18,040
Speaker 2: drinks for half price from eleven thirty to one thirty,

646
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:19,800
Speaker 2: so you decide to just let this guy have what

647
00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:23,080
Speaker 2: he wants. You knock on mister Truro's inner door and

648
00:31:23,080 --> 00:31:26,360
Speaker 2: he lets you in. Mister Charles Edwards esquire here to

649
00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:29,640
Speaker 2: see you, sir. You leave, but your curiosity gets the

650
00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:31,520
Speaker 2: best of you. So you do what you always do

651
00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:34,760
Speaker 2: with particularly juicy conversations. You leave the inner door just

652
00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:38,040
Speaker 2: a jar an alternate typing and listening. This is how

653
00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:39,880
Speaker 2: you've gotten some of your best gossip, and that's one

654
00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:43,040
Speaker 2: of the better forms of currency in this town. The

655
00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:45,480
Speaker 2: first part of the conversation was a bit muffled, but

656
00:31:45,520 --> 00:31:49,600
Speaker 2: then you hear interrogatory from the visiting mister Edwards. Mister Tureau,

657
00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:51,959
Speaker 2: I wonder if you'd help out an aspiring attorney who

658
00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:54,840
Speaker 2: has watched and admired your career from afar. You see,

659
00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:57,760
Speaker 2: I am a native New Orlenian, and my father, Charles Senior,

660
00:31:58,000 --> 00:32:00,400
Speaker 2: a hard working oil man. He looks true dead in

661
00:32:00,440 --> 00:32:02,840
Speaker 2: the eye as he says that part tells me stories

662
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:05,240
Speaker 2: about you all the time, about all the good you've

663
00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:07,920
Speaker 2: done for the people of this city. Now Toureau is

664
00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:10,040
Speaker 2: not fully taken in by the young Edwards, but the

665
00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:13,040
Speaker 2: flattery does soften him up a bit. Glad to help

666
00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:15,520
Speaker 2: you in any way I can, mister Edwards. Of course,

667
00:32:15,720 --> 00:32:17,920
Speaker 2: my practice is not very lucrative, and I'm afraid I

668
00:32:17,960 --> 00:32:22,360
Speaker 2: don't have much to offer in terms of funds. Oh,

669
00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:25,720
Speaker 2: mister Tureau, it's nothing like that. Please. I am perfectly

670
00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:28,520
Speaker 2: capable of seeing to my own affairs. I'm a successful

671
00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:31,400
Speaker 2: attorney in my own right, of course, of course, So

672
00:32:31,480 --> 00:32:34,120
Speaker 2: what can I do for you, sir? Well, you see

673
00:32:34,160 --> 00:32:36,200
Speaker 2: there are some matters before the Federal Court that I

674
00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:38,160
Speaker 2: expect will be in need of my services in the

675
00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:41,200
Speaker 2: next few months. Being new to this type of representation,

676
00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:43,920
Speaker 2: and seeing as this isn't something they covered at Leola,

677
00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:46,480
Speaker 2: I was just wondering if you could help me understand

678
00:32:46,640 --> 00:32:50,600
Speaker 2: how one gains admission to the Federal bar. Terreaux relaxes

679
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:54,080
Speaker 2: a little realizing that this isn't some charity solicitation, and

680
00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:57,080
Speaker 2: it's an answer he can freely and easily give. Well,

681
00:32:57,080 --> 00:33:00,479
Speaker 2: mister Edwards, it's quite straightforward, really. You simply submit your

682
00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:04,360
Speaker 2: application along with letters of recommendation from upstanding members of

683
00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:08,040
Speaker 2: the bar and of society at large. Letters of recommendation.

684
00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:10,800
Speaker 2: Of course, I have just the folks in mind who

685
00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:13,400
Speaker 2: I'd get to pen those for me. Tell me, mister Trueau,

686
00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:15,880
Speaker 2: how should those letters read? I want to make sure

687
00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:19,600
Speaker 2: I share the right instructions with my distinguished acquaintances. Oh,

688
00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:22,160
Speaker 2: it's just the typical stuff. They should speak to your

689
00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:27,440
Speaker 2: character and accomplishments. Character and accomplishments. Edwards pretends to jot

690
00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:30,160
Speaker 2: notes down. Mister Trureau, would you happen to have a

691
00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:32,240
Speaker 2: sample of one of these letters for me to peruse

692
00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:36,040
Speaker 2: so that I instruct my colleagues appropriately? Oh? Of course.

693
00:33:36,320 --> 00:33:38,640
Speaker 2: Trurou flips through the file organizer on his desk as

694
00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:41,480
Speaker 2: he mutters to himself. Here this is a copy of

695
00:33:41,480 --> 00:33:44,120
Speaker 2: a letter of recommendation I submitted last March for my

696
00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:48,840
Speaker 2: dear friend thirgood Marshal. He hands Edward's the letter. Oh

697
00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:51,920
Speaker 2: this is perfect, Thank you, Counselor why would you mind

698
00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:53,800
Speaker 2: if I borrow this for a day or two. I'd

699
00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:56,280
Speaker 2: like to type up some sample copies to give out

700
00:33:56,320 --> 00:33:59,080
Speaker 2: to show a stellar example of how these things should flow.

701
00:33:59,200 --> 00:33:59,880
Speaker 2: Would that be okay?

702
00:34:00,160 --> 00:34:00,280
Speaker 4: You?

703
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:02,080
Speaker 2: Do you need it for any purpose in the next

704
00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:05,000
Speaker 2: couple of days? You hear Tourou clear his throat as

705
00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:07,560
Speaker 2: he considers the question. He can't come up with the

706
00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:09,960
Speaker 2: reason to say no, And yet it feels a little

707
00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:12,279
Speaker 2: strange as he just met this young man, and yet

708
00:34:12,320 --> 00:34:14,680
Speaker 2: on the third hand, he already feels a deep kinship

709
00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:19,160
Speaker 2: to him. I don't see why not just fill a

710
00:34:19,200 --> 00:34:21,719
Speaker 2: slip with miss Eber and do get it back to

711
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:27,040
Speaker 2: me by noon Monday, No exceptions understood, Yes, sir, now Elizabeth.

712
00:34:27,080 --> 00:34:29,880
Speaker 2: A few days later, Edwards did in fact return the

713
00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:32,799
Speaker 2: letters to Apteruro's law practice, and everything seemed to be

714
00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:35,960
Speaker 2: on the up and up. Yeah, until Tourou read of

715
00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:38,880
Speaker 2: Edward's arrest in the papers and dove back into his

716
00:34:38,920 --> 00:34:41,319
Speaker 2: files to look at the return letters. When he pulled

717
00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:43,680
Speaker 2: them out of their file, he shocked at what he found.

718
00:34:44,280 --> 00:34:49,040
Speaker 2: They were horrible copies, like misspelling, sloppiness, and they're even

719
00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:52,480
Speaker 2: on the wrong letterhead. Oh no, So what Edwards had

720
00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:56,080
Speaker 2: done was take the originals, erase Thurgood Marshall's name and

721
00:34:56,120 --> 00:34:57,600
Speaker 2: type in his own in its place.

722
00:34:57,800 --> 00:34:58,920
Speaker 1: That's crazy.

723
00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:02,160
Speaker 2: Then it was probably like that onion skin paper.

724
00:35:02,239 --> 00:35:06,160
Speaker 1: So yeah, but still, my god.

725
00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:08,279
Speaker 2: And this is a trick he managed to pull off

726
00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:11,160
Speaker 2: over and over again until he's finally caught.

727
00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:12,160
Speaker 1: Wow.

728
00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:15,239
Speaker 2: Now, Edwards did commit a couple of other crimes in

729
00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:18,000
Speaker 2: addition to all of the forgery and fraud, most notably

730
00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:21,280
Speaker 2: back in Los Angeles in September nineteen forty five, apparently

731
00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:23,800
Speaker 2: he goes into the police station that had his felony records,

732
00:35:24,080 --> 00:35:27,799
Speaker 2: brandishing a cops badge and demanded to borrow them. Surprisingly,

733
00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:31,200
Speaker 2: what do you know this worked? Oh my god, And

734
00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:33,640
Speaker 2: when he's arrested, the records were found at his home.

735
00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:35,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh my god.

736
00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:37,440
Speaker 2: Now it's still weird to me that most of what

737
00:35:37,480 --> 00:35:39,279
Speaker 2: he wanted to do was fake his way into being

738
00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:42,040
Speaker 2: a lawyer so that he could be a lawyer's assistant.

739
00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:45,040
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, he didn't go all in with it. That's weird.

740
00:35:45,600 --> 00:35:47,200
Speaker 2: I mean, I guess I see it like maybe he

741
00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:49,680
Speaker 2: wanted kind of stability and earning power and felt like

742
00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:51,239
Speaker 2: this was the fastest way to get there.

743
00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:55,759
Speaker 1: Maybe it would give him access to other documents.

744
00:35:56,600 --> 00:35:58,400
Speaker 2: I don't know, because like this was all going on

745
00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:00,799
Speaker 2: over a number of years, and there was nothing like

746
00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:03,600
Speaker 2: that seemed to come of it, other than like he

747
00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:06,399
Speaker 2: had like a you know, a pretty low paying job,

748
00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:08,400
Speaker 2: which you know, fair enough, he may not have been

749
00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:11,960
Speaker 2: able to get that job as a black man at

750
00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:13,759
Speaker 2: that time. Like maybe he wouldn't have been able to

751
00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:14,640
Speaker 2: work at a law firm at all.

752
00:36:14,800 --> 00:36:15,399
Speaker 1: I don't know.

753
00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:19,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe and maybe or maybe it's like he like

754
00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:22,799
Speaker 2: that yearning for stability, for like a salaryman job, and

755
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:25,360
Speaker 2: maybe that's all he wanted, was that? How am I

756
00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:26,960
Speaker 2: going to get through life? Like I need to have

757
00:36:27,040 --> 00:36:29,399
Speaker 2: something that just pays the bit? I mean, I don't know, Yeah,

758
00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:31,919
Speaker 2: who knows. But it still doesn't seem like a plan

759
00:36:31,960 --> 00:36:35,200
Speaker 2: that's well thought out or maybe even thought out at all. Yeah,

760
00:36:35,239 --> 00:36:37,520
Speaker 2: and most con artists we've covered take a much more

761
00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:40,640
Speaker 2: direct route. It's like, yeah, they have money, how do

762
00:36:40,719 --> 00:36:43,240
Speaker 2: I get the money from their pocket into my pocket?

763
00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:45,759
Speaker 1: Exactly exactly, But.

764
00:36:45,760 --> 00:36:48,439
Speaker 2: Anyway, let's unfreeze time and slide back into the heady

765
00:36:48,520 --> 00:36:51,279
Speaker 2: days of late October November nineteen forty five when he

766
00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:54,359
Speaker 2: gets arrested. But first I'm going to conjure up some

767
00:36:54,440 --> 00:37:17,279
Speaker 2: delightful ads. Yes, hey everyone, we're back.

768
00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:20,080
Speaker 1: Hello, time unfrozen.

769
00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:24,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, you can breathe again, Breathe again.

770
00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:26,120
Speaker 1: Breathe again.

771
00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:33,759
Speaker 2: Your cells can start reproducing again. We are sitting here

772
00:37:33,800 --> 00:37:39,399
Speaker 2: talking America's sweetheart, Charles Edwards. He had built this house

773
00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:42,680
Speaker 2: of cards of various fake but impressive legal credentials while

774
00:37:42,719 --> 00:37:45,560
Speaker 2: also sidelining and joining every organization he could think of

775
00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:49,239
Speaker 2: and getting captured in photos with Hollywood's finest and christening

776
00:37:49,840 --> 00:37:54,120
Speaker 2: actual military vessels. I love that, And I want to

777
00:37:54,120 --> 00:37:56,480
Speaker 2: remind you again that none of these capers really got

778
00:37:56,560 --> 00:37:58,560
Speaker 2: him any closer to some kind of big payoff.

779
00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:02,359
Speaker 1: No, just out of notoriety.

780
00:38:02,880 --> 00:38:04,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, I got him some nice pieces of paper and

781
00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:08,160
Speaker 2: his wallet and maybe some hob nodding, I guess. Yeah.

782
00:38:08,239 --> 00:38:10,960
Speaker 2: One other thing that I didn't mention that is worth

783
00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:13,719
Speaker 2: mentioning in passing is this guy ap Terret who had

784
00:38:13,719 --> 00:38:16,840
Speaker 2: written the letter recommendation for Thurgood Marshall. Seems like probably

785
00:38:16,840 --> 00:38:20,080
Speaker 2: a pretty important person. Yeah, he would go on to

786
00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:23,640
Speaker 2: be the guy who filed the case that ultimately got

787
00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:28,680
Speaker 2: rid of the Jim Crow laws in Louisiana. No way, Yeah,

788
00:38:28,719 --> 00:38:29,919
Speaker 2: like a real heavy hitter.

789
00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:33,719
Speaker 1: That's I mean, if you're gonna fake a recommendation, that's

790
00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:34,600
Speaker 1: the guy, right.

791
00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:37,520
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, And this would kind of be a theme,

792
00:38:37,600 --> 00:38:40,160
Speaker 2: like I'm not sure, and I do want your thoughts

793
00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:42,879
Speaker 2: on this at the end, Like he's around some really

794
00:38:42,920 --> 00:38:46,480
Speaker 2: powerful lawyers. Here's another one, and I'll tell you now

795
00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:50,640
Speaker 2: how it all came crashing down. The guy who ultimately

796
00:38:50,719 --> 00:38:53,480
Speaker 2: dropped a dime on him was an attorney named Lauren Miller.

797
00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:57,320
Speaker 2: Lauren Miller would go on to a become the owner

798
00:38:57,360 --> 00:39:00,520
Speaker 2: of the California Eagle in nineteen fifty one, five or

799
00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:03,960
Speaker 2: six years later, but also Lauren Miller drafted most of

800
00:39:04,000 --> 00:39:06,840
Speaker 2: the briefs for Brown versus Board of Education in nineteen

801
00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:12,480
Speaker 2: fifty four. You're kidding, He just like stumbles into the

802
00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:14,880
Speaker 2: most important lawyers of the twentieth century.

803
00:39:14,960 --> 00:39:15,360
Speaker 1: Yeah.

804
00:39:15,440 --> 00:39:19,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, Unfortunately, it seems like Edward's path crossed Miller's at

805
00:39:19,160 --> 00:39:23,719
Speaker 2: an inopportune time, and Miller placed this anonymous tip with

806
00:39:23,760 --> 00:39:26,600
Speaker 2: the California Bar. We'll go back to the La Tribunes

807
00:39:26,680 --> 00:39:29,560
Speaker 2: editor in chief Elmina Davis to explain it. She says, quote,

808
00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:32,440
Speaker 2: he knew Charles was a poser and didn't believe his

809
00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:34,840
Speaker 2: eyes when he saw mention of him as a lawyer.

810
00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:37,680
Speaker 2: He asked the state bar to investigate. That gave the

811
00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:42,839
Speaker 2: gleeful press. Yours truly included a field day. So that's interesting, right,

812
00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:45,399
Speaker 2: Like he knew him before he was a lawyer, even

813
00:39:45,440 --> 00:39:47,680
Speaker 2: though there pass crossed his lawyer, and he knew that

814
00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:49,200
Speaker 2: he was like a comment.

815
00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:50,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, he knows, he's totally full of it.

816
00:39:51,280 --> 00:39:54,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, So the bar follows up. They then raid his

817
00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:56,719
Speaker 2: home and they find his old police file. They find

818
00:39:56,760 --> 00:39:59,560
Speaker 2: all these photos with celebs, all these membership cards, the

819
00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:00,919
Speaker 2: FORGI letters, the whole nine.

820
00:40:01,120 --> 00:40:01,920
Speaker 1: Yeah.

821
00:40:02,120 --> 00:40:04,840
Speaker 2: Edwards is charged with three counts of stealing public records,

822
00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:08,239
Speaker 2: one count of forgery, one count of burglary from when

823
00:40:08,239 --> 00:40:11,200
Speaker 2: he stole the police record. Yeah, and then and also

824
00:40:11,280 --> 00:40:14,600
Speaker 2: federal charges are cooking at the time. Now. The first

825
00:40:14,640 --> 00:40:17,880
Speaker 2: thing he does is deny everything. Quote, this is all

826
00:40:17,960 --> 00:40:21,120
Speaker 2: a nefarious political plot on the part of prominent Republicans.

827
00:40:21,239 --> 00:40:23,799
Speaker 2: He assured newsmen, they haven't got a thing on me.

828
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:26,520
Speaker 2: All this trouble will pass right away right after the election.

829
00:40:27,440 --> 00:40:29,239
Speaker 2: I think this is actually around the time when that

830
00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:32,160
Speaker 2: photo that I found on eBay was taken. Yeah, Because

831
00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:35,279
Speaker 2: he's like, he's writing letters, he's getting interviews. He would

832
00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:37,120
Speaker 2: say a bunch of things that ultimately didn't hold up.

833
00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:39,320
Speaker 2: Like he said he got an honorary PhD in law

834
00:40:39,520 --> 00:40:42,040
Speaker 2: from the American Law Institute at Chicago for his work

835
00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:44,759
Speaker 2: in the youth field, doesn't really work that way.

836
00:40:44,800 --> 00:40:47,239
Speaker 1: It's an honorary. I mean they hand that stuff out

837
00:40:48,200 --> 00:40:50,840
Speaker 1: just famous. Yeah, yeah, quote.

838
00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:53,600
Speaker 2: I also wrote a book, he remarked. It was How

839
00:40:53,640 --> 00:40:56,600
Speaker 2: to Not Become a Delinquent. It was distributed through the

840
00:40:56,719 --> 00:40:59,359
Speaker 2: organizations I worked with and had a circulation of thirty

841
00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:00,279
Speaker 2: two thousand.

842
00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:03,480
Speaker 1: Thirty two thousand. Okay, first of all, no, second of all,

843
00:41:03,560 --> 00:41:06,080
Speaker 1: I'm desperate to read this book.

844
00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:08,480
Speaker 2: I looked really hard. I could not find it.

845
00:41:08,640 --> 00:41:10,680
Speaker 1: The kids, the kids on the street were like, how

846
00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:12,319
Speaker 1: can I get it my hands on a copy of

847
00:41:12,360 --> 00:41:14,719
Speaker 1: How Not to Be a Delinquent? Because that's the way

848
00:41:14,760 --> 00:41:16,000
Speaker 1: to reach delinquents.

849
00:41:16,320 --> 00:41:18,720
Speaker 2: Will you honor me with a Steve Harvey okay player

850
00:41:18,719 --> 00:41:21,360
Speaker 2: on this one, like your brother as.

851
00:41:21,160 --> 00:41:23,240
Speaker 1: Steve Harvey, that is okay player.

852
00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:28,640
Speaker 2: He also said, and this is an interesting point. He's like, look,

853
00:41:28,719 --> 00:41:31,000
Speaker 2: I always did things in my real name, and I

854
00:41:31,040 --> 00:41:34,399
Speaker 2: didn't do anything for personal gain, which we found right. Yeah,

855
00:41:35,000 --> 00:41:36,520
Speaker 2: And he says like I was only trying to help

856
00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:38,280
Speaker 2: the world. I was trying to go for racial harmony

857
00:41:38,320 --> 00:41:41,520
Speaker 2: and world peace. But he also lawyers up. He's to

858
00:41:41,560 --> 00:41:44,520
Speaker 2: be represented by Crispus Wright, who's like the third very

859
00:41:44,560 --> 00:41:46,920
Speaker 2: prominent black attorney of the time. Like, if you look

860
00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:48,759
Speaker 2: him up, he's like, he also did a lot of

861
00:41:48,760 --> 00:41:52,200
Speaker 2: incredible things. Yeah, but there are a lot of questions

862
00:41:52,200 --> 00:41:54,520
Speaker 2: swirling in the press, and most people are thinking this

863
00:41:54,560 --> 00:41:57,000
Speaker 2: guy has to be mentally ill, like there has to

864
00:41:57,000 --> 00:42:01,080
Speaker 2: be something wrong upstairs. On November tewonnineteen forty six, the

865
00:42:01,160 --> 00:42:03,520
Speaker 2: DA floats the idea that they would reduce his bail

866
00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:06,080
Speaker 2: or release him on recognizance if he would just agree

867
00:42:06,120 --> 00:42:08,560
Speaker 2: to be committed. This is not cool with him, though,

868
00:42:08,640 --> 00:42:10,839
Speaker 2: no deal. He's like, no, I'm I'm a sound mind

869
00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:12,880
Speaker 2: and body. Yeah, I've not done anything wrong.

870
00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:13,920
Speaker 1: Yeah.

871
00:42:14,040 --> 00:42:17,160
Speaker 2: So now on November eighth, he faces the chargers in court.

872
00:42:17,400 --> 00:42:19,799
Speaker 2: In the preliminary hearing, the DA calls the lawyer who

873
00:42:19,840 --> 00:42:21,960
Speaker 2: had hired him for the equivalent of that very light

874
00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:25,240
Speaker 2: paralegal work. The guy says, hey, I still like Edwards.

875
00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:27,400
Speaker 2: He seemed embarrassed that he had hired him and was

876
00:42:27,480 --> 00:42:29,520
Speaker 2: vague about what he hired him to do. But he

877
00:42:29,560 --> 00:42:31,680
Speaker 2: says Edward had shown him a membership card to the

878
00:42:31,719 --> 00:42:35,279
Speaker 2: state bar, and that lawyer equipped quote that made me

879
00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:37,200
Speaker 2: think he was a better man than I am. Since

880
00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:40,120
Speaker 2: I have not been, nor has any negro ever been

881
00:42:40,200 --> 00:42:43,160
Speaker 2: admitted to any bar association in the state of California.

882
00:42:43,680 --> 00:42:46,320
Speaker 1: Oh really, yeah. Oh wow.

883
00:42:46,760 --> 00:42:48,600
Speaker 2: So I guess it must have been like they thought

884
00:42:48,640 --> 00:42:50,520
Speaker 2: they were handing this out to a white attorney.

885
00:42:50,680 --> 00:42:52,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

886
00:42:52,880 --> 00:42:56,839
Speaker 2: They asked him on the stands like, so, why why

887
00:42:56,840 --> 00:42:59,080
Speaker 2: couldn't you tell that this kid obviously didn't have the

888
00:42:59,160 --> 00:43:01,279
Speaker 2: experience he said he had, and then he kind of

889
00:43:01,280 --> 00:43:03,719
Speaker 2: didn't seem to be all there and he had zero explanation.

890
00:43:03,800 --> 00:43:06,960
Speaker 2: I think he was just like, I don't know. Yeah,

891
00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:08,880
Speaker 2: So it seems likely that a whole lot of people,

892
00:43:09,040 --> 00:43:11,040
Speaker 2: rather than being fooled by him, they just felt bad

893
00:43:11,080 --> 00:43:13,719
Speaker 2: for him. Yeah yeah, and maybe they didn't as much

894
00:43:13,719 --> 00:43:15,319
Speaker 2: fall for as cons as they wanted to, you know,

895
00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:16,799
Speaker 2: as we were saying earlier, they wanted to give him

896
00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:18,719
Speaker 2: a hand because he obviously needed help.

897
00:43:18,760 --> 00:43:21,799
Speaker 1: He's a shat kid and he's harmless, you know.

898
00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:24,879
Speaker 2: It's like, yeah, like he doesn't seem like he wants

899
00:43:24,880 --> 00:43:29,240
Speaker 2: to help people. Yeah, but also, clearly an entire system

900
00:43:29,280 --> 00:43:30,879
Speaker 2: has egg on its face right now, right.

901
00:43:31,080 --> 00:43:31,279
Speaker 1: Yeah.

902
00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:33,279
Speaker 2: That may have something to do with how hard they're

903
00:43:33,280 --> 00:43:37,640
Speaker 2: going after him too. They're like, oh my gosh, like

904
00:43:37,719 --> 00:43:40,400
Speaker 2: you exposed the California state bar oh yeah, and the

905
00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:43,319
Speaker 2: federal bar to being easily manipulated by literally anyone off

906
00:43:43,360 --> 00:43:43,680
Speaker 2: the street.

907
00:43:43,840 --> 00:43:44,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly.

908
00:43:45,520 --> 00:43:47,960
Speaker 2: But in the middle of all this mess, also the

909
00:43:48,000 --> 00:43:50,359
Speaker 2: two black owned papers are feuding with each other.

910
00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:52,440
Speaker 1: Oh, I love a good paper feud.

911
00:43:53,040 --> 00:43:56,280
Speaker 2: Yeah. So first on November two, I'll mean a Davis

912
00:43:56,280 --> 00:43:59,000
Speaker 2: from the Tribune comes out swinging about the role that

913
00:43:59,440 --> 00:44:01,920
Speaker 2: the Eagles or played in Edwards's life and his crimes.

914
00:44:02,440 --> 00:44:06,680
Speaker 2: She writes, quote, the dilemma Charles Joseph Edwards finds himself

915
00:44:06,680 --> 00:44:09,360
Speaker 2: in today is no shock to the Negro leadership. That

916
00:44:09,480 --> 00:44:12,320
Speaker 2: leadership knew practically all there is to know about Charles,

917
00:44:12,560 --> 00:44:15,239
Speaker 2: except perhaps that his second given name is Joseph. Don't

918
00:44:15,320 --> 00:44:19,400
Speaker 2: let anyone tell you otherwise. Missus Charlatta, miss Charlotta A

919
00:44:19,600 --> 00:44:22,680
Speaker 2: bass much publicized this week as one of Edward's sponsors

920
00:44:23,000 --> 00:44:25,840
Speaker 2: told the truth in her formal statement to her paper Thursday,

921
00:44:26,080 --> 00:44:28,440
Speaker 2: in which she scored a jump on the alienas appointed

922
00:44:28,440 --> 00:44:31,720
Speaker 2: by the authorities to examine Edwards and declared him mentally sick,

923
00:44:32,080 --> 00:44:34,800
Speaker 2: inferring that she knew it all along and had merely

924
00:44:34,840 --> 00:44:37,640
Speaker 2: tried to help him as she has so many other youngsters.

925
00:44:37,960 --> 00:44:40,840
Speaker 2: That help, I might point out, consisted of aiding and

926
00:44:40,920 --> 00:44:44,720
Speaker 2: abetting Edward's countless masquerades as a youth leader by permitting

927
00:44:44,760 --> 00:44:47,160
Speaker 2: him to write a column in her newspaper, by publishing

928
00:44:47,239 --> 00:44:50,960
Speaker 2: Edward's own and illiterately styled press releases on his activities,

929
00:44:51,120 --> 00:44:54,760
Speaker 2: in which his favorite identification of himself was quote, Hollywood producer.

930
00:44:55,239 --> 00:44:57,360
Speaker 2: Until I came to know the guy, I really believed

931
00:44:57,400 --> 00:44:59,440
Speaker 2: he had been associated with Cecil B. De Mille in

932
00:44:59,480 --> 00:45:03,120
Speaker 2: the production King of Kings. Can you imagine, like that's

933
00:45:03,160 --> 00:45:04,400
Speaker 2: coming in hot, that's.

934
00:45:04,239 --> 00:45:06,279
Speaker 1: Coming in super But you know what I've learned from

935
00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:08,759
Speaker 1: Zarin is that if you know, I'll say, oh, I

936
00:45:08,840 --> 00:45:11,280
Speaker 1: talked to this person, they said they were a Hollywood producer,

937
00:45:11,640 --> 00:45:13,960
Speaker 1: and that just gets an eye roll like that means nothing.

938
00:45:14,280 --> 00:45:16,720
Speaker 1: It means absolutely nothing. So now I need to start

939
00:45:16,719 --> 00:45:19,120
Speaker 1: introducing myself as a Hollywood producer.

940
00:45:19,320 --> 00:45:21,040
Speaker 2: We should all do this, Yeah, why not?

941
00:45:22,120 --> 00:45:22,239
Speaker 1: So?

942
00:45:22,960 --> 00:45:27,799
Speaker 2: Then on November fourteenth, the California Eagle fires back. Miss

943
00:45:27,920 --> 00:45:30,120
Speaker 2: bass is out here claiming that other papers are using

944
00:45:30,160 --> 00:45:33,120
Speaker 2: this case just to smear them. Oh so, and I

945
00:45:33,239 --> 00:45:36,160
Speaker 2: quote some of the daily papers taking their orders from

946
00:45:36,200 --> 00:45:39,640
Speaker 2: the coalition of Republicans and Fascists, which sought to defeat

947
00:45:39,640 --> 00:45:42,960
Speaker 2: Helen Douglas at any cost and aided no doubt by

948
00:45:43,000 --> 00:45:45,440
Speaker 2: certain East Side newspaper racketeers. I don't know if that's

949
00:45:45,480 --> 00:45:48,480
Speaker 2: the Tribune or not utilize the Charles Edwards case. In

950
00:45:48,520 --> 00:45:51,480
Speaker 2: a frantic attempt to discredit The Eagle and its editor,

951
00:45:51,760 --> 00:45:53,840
Speaker 2: they got hold of some photographs that have been removed

952
00:45:53,840 --> 00:45:56,680
Speaker 2: from the editor's office without her knowledge. They doctored those

953
00:45:56,680 --> 00:45:59,719
Speaker 2: photographs to suit their unholy purpose, used them in an

954
00:45:59,760 --> 00:46:02,400
Speaker 2: injury attack on The Eagle, the only newspaper in the

955
00:46:02,440 --> 00:46:05,680
Speaker 2: Negro community that supported Missus Douglas on her record without

956
00:46:05,680 --> 00:46:11,600
Speaker 2: attacking her opponent, Frederick M. Roberts. Now hard to reckon, right, Yeah.

957
00:46:11,120 --> 00:46:14,480
Speaker 2: She goes on to say another paper also called Edward's

958
00:46:14,520 --> 00:46:17,279
Speaker 2: mother and told her that the Eagle had been using him. Oh,

959
00:46:17,320 --> 00:46:20,600
Speaker 2: and this is all about preventing Helen Douglas from getting elected.

960
00:46:20,760 --> 00:46:23,279
Speaker 2: Oh wow, what do you make of this? I mean,

961
00:46:23,320 --> 00:46:26,560
Speaker 2: newspapers have always been a dirty business, Like could it be?

962
00:46:27,360 --> 00:46:31,640
Speaker 1: I don't know, honestly, I calling his mom.

963
00:46:31,320 --> 00:46:33,719
Speaker 2: This amazing like this. The thing is, I think this

964
00:46:33,800 --> 00:46:35,880
Speaker 2: illustrates how hard it is to go back in time

965
00:46:36,239 --> 00:46:39,320
Speaker 2: and read of the time like, yeah, Helen Douglas, like

966
00:46:39,360 --> 00:46:41,879
Speaker 2: the Helen Douglas, which you know, I guess we should

967
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:43,960
Speaker 2: know about was must have been a pretty big race

968
00:46:43,960 --> 00:46:44,800
Speaker 2: and pretty important.

969
00:46:46,200 --> 00:46:48,760
Speaker 1: And you have to keep in mind too that it's

970
00:46:48,760 --> 00:46:52,080
Speaker 1: a much smaller Los Angeles than today, so you know,

971
00:46:52,320 --> 00:46:56,439
Speaker 1: there's a lot of gossip or local talking. You want,

972
00:46:56,440 --> 00:46:58,640
Speaker 1: do I see this with like old San Francisco papers

973
00:46:59,040 --> 00:47:02,480
Speaker 1: that when it was a small they make these references

974
00:47:02,520 --> 00:47:04,800
Speaker 1: that don't make any sense to us. But I'm starting

975
00:47:04,800 --> 00:47:07,760
Speaker 1: to realize it's like town talk that like wink wink,

976
00:47:07,800 --> 00:47:09,560
Speaker 1: and everyone's going to know what it means, except for

977
00:47:09,600 --> 00:47:12,080
Speaker 1: you jump forward one hundred years and you're like, I

978
00:47:12,120 --> 00:47:13,880
Speaker 1: have no idea what they're talking about.

979
00:47:14,400 --> 00:47:14,959
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.

980
00:47:15,000 --> 00:47:19,360
Speaker 1: And also the references to old stories or old reporting

981
00:47:19,400 --> 00:47:22,520
Speaker 1: that they anticipate that you've read every word of every

982
00:47:22,560 --> 00:47:25,320
Speaker 1: paper for the last few years and so you'll understand

983
00:47:25,360 --> 00:47:26,279
Speaker 1: these references.

984
00:47:26,320 --> 00:47:28,319
Speaker 2: And so yeah, I mean, I'll tell you I did

985
00:47:28,320 --> 00:47:31,279
Speaker 2: my absolute best, like I read every scrap on this thing. Yeah,

986
00:47:31,280 --> 00:47:34,080
Speaker 2: And I still I'm just staring at this, like you're like,

987
00:47:34,560 --> 00:47:37,600
Speaker 2: I'm I'm I tend to believe the Tribune, I mean

988
00:47:37,640 --> 00:47:40,879
Speaker 2: to Davis, because the articles are real, Like they did

989
00:47:40,920 --> 00:47:44,960
Speaker 2: publish all of these Charles Edwards columns and articles and

990
00:47:45,040 --> 00:47:47,200
Speaker 2: like and they're crazy. Like you read them, they don't make.

991
00:47:47,120 --> 00:47:49,000
Speaker 1: Any sense right, right.

992
00:47:49,400 --> 00:47:51,359
Speaker 2: And like you look at the photos which we'll put

993
00:47:51,400 --> 00:47:55,040
Speaker 2: on Instagram, and like I don't think they're composite or anything,

994
00:47:55,080 --> 00:47:56,719
Speaker 2: like they look like legit photos.

995
00:47:56,920 --> 00:47:59,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, but again, like you just go you go to

996
00:47:59,280 --> 00:48:01,799
Speaker 1: a restaurant where all the celebrities are known to hang

997
00:48:01,800 --> 00:48:05,400
Speaker 1: out outside of studio at the time, and you could

998
00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:06,680
Speaker 1: get pictures easily.

999
00:48:07,360 --> 00:48:12,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, pictures a spider man if you wanted, right at

1000
00:48:12,080 --> 00:48:15,400
Speaker 2: any rate. On November twenty fifth, he's now seen what

1001
00:48:15,440 --> 00:48:17,080
Speaker 2: they have on him, and he sees that these charges

1002
00:48:17,120 --> 00:48:19,600
Speaker 2: aren't just going away, and he changes his tune. He

1003
00:48:19,680 --> 00:48:22,440
Speaker 2: pleads not guilty by reason of insanity, which seems like

1004
00:48:22,440 --> 00:48:25,000
Speaker 2: his best bet at this point to be honest. He

1005
00:48:25,040 --> 00:48:27,480
Speaker 2: goes back to jail. The state assigned some doctors to

1006
00:48:27,480 --> 00:48:31,080
Speaker 2: see what's what. Two days later, he withdraws his plea

1007
00:48:31,080 --> 00:48:33,880
Speaker 2: if not guilty by reason of insanity, and the judge

1008
00:48:34,960 --> 00:48:37,360
Speaker 2: hikes up his bond from twenty five hundred dollars to

1009
00:48:37,400 --> 00:48:40,480
Speaker 2: ten thousand dollars. As the Deputy DA says, like, oh,

1010
00:48:40,520 --> 00:48:42,440
Speaker 2: they're gonna you know, what's it called, Like they're going

1011
00:48:42,480 --> 00:48:44,279
Speaker 2: to supersede your indictment. There's going to be some more

1012
00:48:44,360 --> 00:48:45,040
Speaker 2: charges on the way.

1013
00:48:45,200 --> 00:48:46,160
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1014
00:48:46,200 --> 00:48:48,600
Speaker 2: And also Edwards throws his attorney under the bus the

1015
00:48:48,640 --> 00:48:51,720
Speaker 2: famous Christmas right. Edward says, oh, it was his idea

1016
00:48:51,760 --> 00:48:54,120
Speaker 2: to plead insanity and I'm perfectly sane. It was just

1017
00:48:54,400 --> 00:48:55,680
Speaker 2: he's putting words in my mouth.

1018
00:48:55,760 --> 00:48:56,239
Speaker 1: Oh boy.

1019
00:48:57,840 --> 00:49:01,600
Speaker 2: So now on December fifth, his defense counsel with draws,

1020
00:49:01,840 --> 00:49:05,080
Speaker 2: basically saying he's having a hard time representing Edward's best interests.

1021
00:49:06,440 --> 00:49:09,280
Speaker 2: Edwards tells the court he plans to represent himself, and you're.

1022
00:49:09,080 --> 00:49:11,520
Speaker 1: Like, no, doud it.

1023
00:49:12,640 --> 00:49:14,480
Speaker 2: But then he hires a new attorney, a guy named

1024
00:49:14,480 --> 00:49:18,960
Speaker 2: Walter Gordon. Look him up. The papers are actually starting

1025
00:49:19,000 --> 00:49:21,560
Speaker 2: to get bored. They're using headlines like quote and this

1026
00:49:21,600 --> 00:49:24,520
Speaker 2: is an actual headline. This could go on forever, semi

1027
00:49:24,560 --> 00:49:28,400
Speaker 2: colon new twist in Edward's epic. They're like, oh, this

1028
00:49:28,400 --> 00:49:30,920
Speaker 2: guy isn't so cool anymore, Like we've run out of

1029
00:49:31,000 --> 00:49:32,160
Speaker 2: cool photos to put up.

1030
00:49:32,320 --> 00:49:33,200
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1031
00:49:33,360 --> 00:49:35,960
Speaker 2: So now it's January eighth of nineteen forty seven. The

1032
00:49:36,040 --> 00:49:39,000
Speaker 2: medical reports come back. He's found sane. They know that

1033
00:49:39,000 --> 00:49:43,680
Speaker 2: he's not mentally unstable, he's just quote a pathological liar. Well,

1034
00:49:44,160 --> 00:49:46,239
Speaker 2: I mean and there's more like he was saying, Oh,

1035
00:49:46,280 --> 00:49:48,520
Speaker 2: I've got this, I've got this lump in my head

1036
00:49:48,560 --> 00:49:50,200
Speaker 2: and it's a tumor. And they looked at that and

1037
00:49:50,200 --> 00:49:52,799
Speaker 2: they're like, it's actually just a calcium deposit and it's

1038
00:49:52,800 --> 00:49:55,080
Speaker 2: nowhere near like any parts of your brain that would matter,

1039
00:49:55,160 --> 00:49:59,719
Speaker 2: so it's inert and oh wow, fine, And yeah, like

1040
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:01,880
Speaker 2: we were probably about to say, like who knows at

1041
00:50:01,920 --> 00:50:04,280
Speaker 2: the time, like how they were evaluating people and yeah,

1042
00:50:04,320 --> 00:50:06,759
Speaker 2: what criteria they were using. I mean you just don't know.

1043
00:50:06,960 --> 00:50:10,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, well, and I think that to be a

1044
00:50:10,640 --> 00:50:15,319
Speaker 1: pathological liar is a mental instability. Yeah, I've known a

1045
00:50:15,320 --> 00:50:19,880
Speaker 1: pathological liar. Like they could not stop lying about the

1046
00:50:20,000 --> 00:50:23,800
Speaker 1: dumbest stuff and it was just like and so obvious,

1047
00:50:23,840 --> 00:50:27,600
Speaker 1: like it was really crazy, and everyone around him would

1048
00:50:27,600 --> 00:50:31,120
Speaker 1: just be like blown away by these absolute preposterous lies.

1049
00:50:31,440 --> 00:50:34,040
Speaker 1: And the guy was not stupid, he's a smart guy,

1050
00:50:34,400 --> 00:50:36,279
Speaker 1: and it was just like he couldn't help himself. It

1051
00:50:36,360 --> 00:50:37,520
Speaker 1: was it was, you.

1052
00:50:37,480 --> 00:50:40,200
Speaker 2: Know, almost Tourette's stuff just jumped out of your mouth.

1053
00:50:40,280 --> 00:50:42,680
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, where it's like, you know, oh, I'm a

1054
00:50:42,880 --> 00:50:45,920
Speaker 1: I was like a karate like dojo master, and I

1055
00:50:46,000 --> 00:50:49,800
Speaker 1: also you know happened to be like an Air Force pilot,

1056
00:50:50,200 --> 00:50:52,759
Speaker 1: like a famous fighter pilot. And they they took me

1057
00:50:52,800 --> 00:50:54,400
Speaker 1: at the Air Force because I drove up to the

1058
00:50:54,400 --> 00:50:56,759
Speaker 1: gates in Colorado and was like, I'm your man, and

1059
00:50:56,800 --> 00:50:59,160
Speaker 1: they said come on here. It's like wow, yeah, yeah,

1060
00:50:59,200 --> 00:51:00,960
Speaker 1: that did not happen, and my man, And.

1061
00:51:01,480 --> 00:51:04,600
Speaker 2: And the word pathology is right in there exactly, it's

1062
00:51:04,640 --> 00:51:07,759
Speaker 2: a condition. And also like you have to consider if

1063
00:51:07,800 --> 00:51:11,759
Speaker 2: the DA wanted him to have a regular case, he

1064
00:51:11,920 --> 00:51:13,960
Speaker 2: probably could have gone to the doctors and been like, hey,

1065
00:51:13,960 --> 00:51:14,680
Speaker 2: you got to find this.

1066
00:51:14,680 --> 00:51:17,160
Speaker 1: Guy saying yeah, totally, totally.

1067
00:51:18,000 --> 00:51:21,560
Speaker 2: So on January seventeenth, he sees this coming. He pleads guilty,

1068
00:51:21,560 --> 00:51:24,399
Speaker 2: and he asks for probation. His new attorney basically makes

1069
00:51:24,400 --> 00:51:26,560
Speaker 2: a plea for mercy and says, look, this guy hasn't

1070
00:51:26,560 --> 00:51:29,080
Speaker 2: harmed anyone, He hasn't tried to make any money, and

1071
00:51:29,120 --> 00:51:31,040
Speaker 2: he did a lot of good through the various youth groups,

1072
00:51:31,040 --> 00:51:32,160
Speaker 2: Like he actually did some things.

1073
00:51:32,239 --> 00:51:33,960
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, But.

1074
00:51:34,040 --> 00:51:37,120
Speaker 2: Edwards is still working the papers, he's still giving good

1075
00:51:37,160 --> 00:51:39,560
Speaker 2: SoundBite till the end. The press gets the following tidbit

1076
00:51:39,600 --> 00:51:43,200
Speaker 2: from him on the court steps. Quote, you know, he said,

1077
00:51:43,520 --> 00:51:45,760
Speaker 2: I have an idea that I could be an awful

1078
00:51:45,760 --> 00:51:49,760
Speaker 2: big man in the radio broadcasting business. But he added thoughtfully,

1079
00:51:50,080 --> 00:51:52,399
Speaker 2: I have an idea that any radio broadcast I put

1080
00:51:52,440 --> 00:51:55,160
Speaker 2: on in the future will probably be from San Quentin.

1081
00:51:55,800 --> 00:51:59,480
Speaker 1: Well, they do have a radio station, and the do

1082
00:51:59,520 --> 00:52:01,400
Speaker 1: they back the up? Well I don't know about that. No,

1083
00:52:01,480 --> 00:52:03,560
Speaker 1: I don't think back then. But now under the the

1084
00:52:03,600 --> 00:52:06,120
Speaker 1: you know, the California model, they've got all sorts of stuff.

1085
00:52:06,160 --> 00:52:09,239
Speaker 1: They've got the podcast they have where ear Hustle was,

1086
00:52:09,360 --> 00:52:12,640
Speaker 1: and they've got a really great newspaper San Quentin.

1087
00:52:12,840 --> 00:52:15,719
Speaker 2: And they have like a real serious rehabilitation program m m.

1088
00:52:16,120 --> 00:52:18,920
Speaker 1: They have their own college. A lot going on.

1089
00:52:18,960 --> 00:52:20,480
Speaker 2: What's the name of that pod? I want to plug

1090
00:52:20,800 --> 00:52:21,480
Speaker 2: politick in.

1091
00:52:21,840 --> 00:52:24,440
Speaker 1: Oh Politiican. Yeah. I was actually like I was going

1092
00:52:24,520 --> 00:52:27,360
Speaker 1: to talk to you about that later, but yeah, politick

1093
00:52:27,440 --> 00:52:30,000
Speaker 1: In a great podcast. But they did a two parter

1094
00:52:30,239 --> 00:52:35,520
Speaker 1: in San Quentin. It's uh, Gavin Newsom and Marshawn Lynch,

1095
00:52:35,760 --> 00:52:38,920
Speaker 1: which is like they were like, Elizabeth, what's your dream podcast?

1096
00:52:39,280 --> 00:52:44,279
Speaker 1: Gavin Newsom, Marshawn Lynch and then the sports agent whose

1097
00:52:44,360 --> 00:52:46,319
Speaker 1: name I always forget but anyway something.

1098
00:52:46,440 --> 00:52:50,479
Speaker 2: Yeah, but yeah, it's super super funny and like there's

1099
00:52:50,520 --> 00:52:53,240
Speaker 2: there's a lot, and it's a it's a sister podcast

1100
00:52:53,280 --> 00:52:53,640
Speaker 2: of ours.

1101
00:52:53,760 --> 00:52:57,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's an iHeart podcast. Yeah, but it's interesting. You

1102
00:52:57,080 --> 00:52:59,600
Speaker 1: can learn a lot about san Quentin from those two episodes.

1103
00:53:00,680 --> 00:53:05,239
Speaker 2: So finally, yeah, back into the heart of this thing.

1104
00:53:05,800 --> 00:53:09,600
Speaker 2: February twenty. First, he's sentenced to five to fourteen years

1105
00:53:09,600 --> 00:53:13,000
Speaker 2: in San Quentin, with the possibility of parole. The Feds

1106
00:53:13,000 --> 00:53:15,320
Speaker 2: agree to drop their charges in exchange for the guilty

1107
00:53:15,360 --> 00:53:17,279
Speaker 2: plea on the state charges and not having to go

1108
00:53:17,320 --> 00:53:20,680
Speaker 2: through a whole rigamarole in court. But Edward's story is

1109
00:53:20,719 --> 00:53:24,080
Speaker 2: not quite over. He manages to get released from San

1110
00:53:24,160 --> 00:53:27,520
Speaker 2: Quentin in April of nineteen fifty three, so like pretty

1111
00:53:27,520 --> 00:53:29,399
Speaker 2: close to the low end of his sentence, like five

1112
00:53:29,480 --> 00:53:32,799
Speaker 2: or six years in Yeah, Almina Davis says he had

1113
00:53:32,800 --> 00:53:34,919
Speaker 2: a cerebral hemorrhage and he was sent home to die

1114
00:53:34,960 --> 00:53:37,480
Speaker 2: with his mother. How did she get the scoop? Well,

1115
00:53:37,520 --> 00:53:39,799
Speaker 2: it turns out Edwards popped on over to the La

1116
00:53:39,880 --> 00:53:42,759
Speaker 2: Tribune offices again. He had come there before to see

1117
00:53:42,760 --> 00:53:44,520
Speaker 2: Almena Davis. As soon as he gets out of the

1118
00:53:44,520 --> 00:53:45,320
Speaker 2: Gray Bar hotel.

1119
00:53:45,680 --> 00:53:49,080
Speaker 1: Wait, well, he's recovering from the.

1120
00:53:49,640 --> 00:53:53,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, apparently, I guess her write up is absolutely fascinating.

1121
00:53:53,480 --> 00:53:55,640
Speaker 2: And for anyone who's interested in this, like, I want

1122
00:53:55,680 --> 00:53:58,560
Speaker 2: to send you pdf because these these paper stories are

1123
00:53:58,600 --> 00:53:59,600
Speaker 2: beautiful and amazing.

1124
00:54:00,120 --> 00:54:02,680
Speaker 1: So you can post the PDFs to the website.

1125
00:54:02,960 --> 00:54:05,279
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah yeah, and you can get us, you know,

1126
00:54:05,320 --> 00:54:07,280
Speaker 2: get a membership to newspapers dot com.

1127
00:54:07,080 --> 00:54:10,600
Speaker 1: And oh, one hundred percent recommend it's the best.

1128
00:54:11,400 --> 00:54:15,600
Speaker 2: So and I quote the other day, a rickety car

1129
00:54:15,680 --> 00:54:19,000
Speaker 2: halted in its tracks outside the Tribune window was backed

1130
00:54:19,040 --> 00:54:22,640
Speaker 2: up erradically, and outsteps Charles to come and say hello.

1131
00:54:23,360 --> 00:54:26,400
Speaker 2: He's back from death's door, said Charles, and still in

1132
00:54:26,440 --> 00:54:29,520
Speaker 2: the exceptional category, for he'd had a recovery, which is

1133
00:54:29,520 --> 00:54:33,320
Speaker 2: about one in one thousand from the crippling, usually fatal

1134
00:54:33,360 --> 00:54:37,719
Speaker 2: effects of cerebral paralysis. The beautiful part of all this

1135
00:54:38,120 --> 00:54:40,200
Speaker 2: is Charles doesn't have to go back to san Quentin

1136
00:54:40,640 --> 00:54:43,600
Speaker 2: until next time. The parole that gave him to die

1137
00:54:43,640 --> 00:54:46,959
Speaker 2: on is good for living on too. Somehow or other,

1138
00:54:47,200 --> 00:54:50,879
Speaker 2: we have an idea that Charles's usual winsomeness prevailed upon

1139
00:54:51,000 --> 00:54:54,360
Speaker 2: even the granite walls of San Quentin until his conviction.

1140
00:54:54,680 --> 00:54:57,520
Speaker 2: He had an ironclad reputation for being able to talk

1141
00:54:57,560 --> 00:55:00,319
Speaker 2: his way out of anything san Quentin he might have

1142
00:55:00,320 --> 00:55:03,040
Speaker 2: seemed like any man's waterloo, but we'll bet it didn't

1143
00:55:03,040 --> 00:55:04,440
Speaker 2: phase Charles.

1144
00:55:04,840 --> 00:55:05,320
Speaker 3: Wow.

1145
00:55:05,480 --> 00:55:09,440
Speaker 2: Oh wow, we talked his way out of San Quentina.

1146
00:55:09,520 --> 00:55:13,200
Speaker 1: That's incredible good for what he had to have been,

1147
00:55:13,320 --> 00:55:16,680
Speaker 1: like the total typical con man of just being so

1148
00:55:18,600 --> 00:55:23,239
Speaker 1: you know, magnetic and able to kind of charm anybody.

1149
00:55:23,480 --> 00:55:26,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, and like you know, I do wonder like if

1150
00:55:26,880 --> 00:55:28,799
Speaker 2: he if he had like a side of him that

1151
00:55:28,840 --> 00:55:31,440
Speaker 2: was very vulnerable in addition to being the site, because

1152
00:55:31,480 --> 00:55:34,120
Speaker 2: he had this like he seemed needy and people wanted

1153
00:55:34,120 --> 00:55:34,719
Speaker 2: to help him out.

1154
00:55:34,880 --> 00:55:35,120
Speaker 1: Yeah.

1155
00:55:35,840 --> 00:55:37,880
Speaker 2: So yeah, like that probably would play pretty well in

1156
00:55:37,920 --> 00:55:38,799
Speaker 2: front of a parole board.

1157
00:55:39,320 --> 00:55:41,200
Speaker 1: Well, and he's not coming to people with his hand

1158
00:55:41,200 --> 00:55:44,080
Speaker 1: out asking for money. He's coming to people saying, help

1159
00:55:44,120 --> 00:55:45,200
Speaker 1: me help other people.

1160
00:55:45,840 --> 00:55:49,479
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So the last mention I could find

1161
00:55:49,520 --> 00:55:52,120
Speaker 2: of Charles Edwards Junior was over a year after he

1162
00:55:52,160 --> 00:55:54,920
Speaker 2: got out of San quentin in nineteen fifty four. He's

1163
00:55:54,960 --> 00:55:57,319
Speaker 2: been arrested for petty theft at a food market and

1164
00:55:57,360 --> 00:56:00,000
Speaker 2: they said at the corner of Santa Barbara and Western.

1165
00:56:00,080 --> 00:56:02,839
Speaker 2: I wonder if they mean Santa Monica in Western, Yeah,

1166
00:56:03,480 --> 00:56:05,080
Speaker 2: which is now a Chick fil A and Taco Bell.

1167
00:56:06,000 --> 00:56:07,800
Speaker 1: He hit the Chick fil A.

1168
00:56:08,160 --> 00:56:11,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, And at this point he's giving his occupation as

1169
00:56:12,000 --> 00:56:14,919
Speaker 2: a painter props to Zaren. He's now like I think

1170
00:56:14,960 --> 00:56:17,279
Speaker 2: now he's he would be my man to Zarin. He's

1171
00:56:17,280 --> 00:56:20,000
Speaker 2: probably my man to me at this point. Okay, but

1172
00:56:20,120 --> 00:56:22,359
Speaker 2: this is it's kind of a sad and ignominious way

1173
00:56:22,360 --> 00:56:24,080
Speaker 2: to go out. I mean, give the guy a ding

1174
00:56:24,160 --> 00:56:27,680
Speaker 2: dang break. He's stealing. He's stealing two bags of groceries

1175
00:56:27,680 --> 00:56:31,480
Speaker 2: from a grocery store and he says, like, I don't

1176
00:56:31,480 --> 00:56:33,120
Speaker 2: remember the exact quote, but he says something to the

1177
00:56:33,120 --> 00:56:35,920
Speaker 2: paper like, hey, I haven't left the grocery store. He

1178
00:56:35,920 --> 00:56:38,880
Speaker 2: had put them aside by the checkout and I was

1179
00:56:38,880 --> 00:56:41,279
Speaker 2: somewhere near the exit, and he's like, don't you have

1180
00:56:41,320 --> 00:56:43,040
Speaker 2: to wait to arrest me till I leave the store.

1181
00:56:43,160 --> 00:56:45,279
Speaker 2: I was going to pay for these, so you know,

1182
00:56:45,320 --> 00:56:48,920
Speaker 2: who knows what's going on. I couldn't confirm any other

1183
00:56:48,960 --> 00:56:51,200
Speaker 2: mentions of Charles and the papers after that, but I

1184
00:56:51,239 --> 00:56:54,480
Speaker 2: do think I found his grave site. If my research

1185
00:56:54,560 --> 00:56:57,040
Speaker 2: is correct, he's buried along with his mom in the

1186
00:56:57,080 --> 00:56:59,120
Speaker 2: same grave, and they may have died at the same

1187
00:56:59,120 --> 00:57:01,760
Speaker 2: time because there was only one death date on it. Okay,

1188
00:57:02,320 --> 00:57:06,200
Speaker 2: the date on the grave is June tenth, nineteen seventy six. Wow,

1189
00:57:06,880 --> 00:57:10,160
Speaker 2: so that would make him what like sixties fifty.

1190
00:57:10,280 --> 00:57:11,280
Speaker 1: Something like that. Yeah.

1191
00:57:12,600 --> 00:57:15,160
Speaker 2: And they're buried actually in a very historical cemetery in

1192
00:57:15,280 --> 00:57:17,800
Speaker 2: La the Angelus Rosedale Cemetery. Do you know this one?

1193
00:57:18,280 --> 00:57:18,880
Speaker 1: Not familiar?

1194
00:57:19,280 --> 00:57:21,880
Speaker 2: It's the first cemetery to allow people of all races

1195
00:57:21,880 --> 00:57:26,000
Speaker 2: and creeds, and so lots of famous Angelinos are there.

1196
00:57:26,080 --> 00:57:28,640
Speaker 2: Oh cool, and any rude dude, if you live near

1197
00:57:28,640 --> 00:57:30,960
Speaker 2: there or if you like that cemetery, I would love

1198
00:57:31,000 --> 00:57:32,720
Speaker 2: it if you would go just check out his grave

1199
00:57:32,960 --> 00:57:37,880
Speaker 2: and pay your respects. Yeah, what is your ridiculous takeaway? Elizabeth?

1200
00:57:38,240 --> 00:57:43,520
Speaker 1: Want so you're so polite, unlike Zaren who never asks me.

1201
00:57:44,640 --> 00:57:47,040
Speaker 1: I think my ridiculous takeaway is again that if you're

1202
00:57:47,080 --> 00:57:49,840
Speaker 1: not asking directly for money, but if you're just asking

1203
00:57:49,880 --> 00:57:52,520
Speaker 1: for help to help, you're more likely to be able

1204
00:57:52,520 --> 00:57:55,920
Speaker 1: to get away with stuff. You know, the people's hackles

1205
00:57:55,960 --> 00:57:58,400
Speaker 1: aren't up, they're not you know, suspicious. But also the

1206
00:57:58,480 --> 00:58:00,760
Speaker 1: other thing is that I thought when you're talking about

1207
00:58:00,760 --> 00:58:03,880
Speaker 1: all the attorneys that you know that I think is

1208
00:58:03,920 --> 00:58:06,880
Speaker 1: a profession that over the years, and it's I feel

1209
00:58:06,920 --> 00:58:09,600
Speaker 1: like it's a rapid decline of late that there used

1210
00:58:09,640 --> 00:58:12,440
Speaker 1: to be like a real emphasis on the integrity of

1211
00:58:12,520 --> 00:58:16,520
Speaker 1: things and and like, you know, the honor of it.

1212
00:58:17,560 --> 00:58:19,720
Speaker 1: And we see that where it doesn't seem to matter

1213
00:58:20,360 --> 00:58:22,600
Speaker 1: across the board, not even just in the legal profession.

1214
00:58:22,640 --> 00:58:27,520
Speaker 1: But I'm always disappointed that people don't hold integrity in

1215
00:58:27,800 --> 00:58:31,480
Speaker 1: as high esteem as they used to. That the selfishness

1216
00:58:31,520 --> 00:58:33,400
Speaker 1: of it, and if it's better to get one over

1217
00:58:33,440 --> 00:58:36,600
Speaker 1: on anyone than doing the right thing. And so I

1218
00:58:36,720 --> 00:58:38,560
Speaker 1: like the old stories where they're like, this is a

1219
00:58:38,560 --> 00:58:43,080
Speaker 1: big serious offense. You know that you like the integrity. So, Dave,

1220
00:58:43,360 --> 00:58:44,840
Speaker 1: what's your ridiculous takeaway?

1221
00:58:45,160 --> 00:58:48,360
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, music to my ears? You know, I

1222
00:58:48,400 --> 00:58:50,960
Speaker 2: was thinking about a couple of things. One, he definitely

1223
00:58:51,040 --> 00:58:53,560
Speaker 2: falls into the act, like you know, oh yeah, he

1224
00:58:53,720 --> 00:58:57,080
Speaker 2: was the king of that. It seems like yeah. For Two,

1225
00:58:57,400 --> 00:59:01,000
Speaker 2: I really I vacillate between the extremes, and I think

1226
00:59:01,000 --> 00:59:03,480
Speaker 2: I've already alluded to it of like was he super

1227
00:59:03,560 --> 00:59:07,440
Speaker 2: charming or was he super charming and also super needy?

1228
00:59:07,520 --> 00:59:10,240
Speaker 2: And like what distinguished him from other con men that

1229
00:59:10,240 --> 00:59:13,600
Speaker 2: we've seen is that at a certain point people actually

1230
00:59:13,640 --> 00:59:15,880
Speaker 2: really did feel bad for him and decide to help

1231
00:59:15,960 --> 00:59:19,760
Speaker 2: him out of like a sense of charity. Yeah, it's hard.

1232
00:59:20,080 --> 00:59:22,560
Speaker 2: It's hard to know. And like the third point I

1233
00:59:22,560 --> 00:59:25,560
Speaker 2: want to make is that I started to develop a

1234
00:59:25,600 --> 00:59:29,080
Speaker 2: feeling that maybe, especially since he was around so many

1235
00:59:29,440 --> 00:59:32,680
Speaker 2: respected and upstanding attorneys and they were all doing favors

1236
00:59:32,680 --> 00:59:35,160
Speaker 2: for him, and you know the paper too, that like

1237
00:59:35,440 --> 00:59:38,320
Speaker 2: maybe there's something to the fact that this entire community

1238
00:59:38,400 --> 00:59:40,960
Speaker 2: was kind of trying to do what they can to

1239
00:59:41,080 --> 00:59:43,440
Speaker 2: rain him in and like give him something, give him

1240
00:59:43,480 --> 00:59:45,920
Speaker 2: a direction, but try to not get him into like

1241
00:59:46,000 --> 00:59:47,600
Speaker 2: a place where he could do to much trouble.

1242
00:59:47,760 --> 00:59:48,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, and then it just.

1243
00:59:48,480 --> 00:59:53,320
Speaker 2: Broke contain, you know, like it just is like, oh gosh, yeah,

1244
00:59:53,360 --> 00:59:56,680
Speaker 2: so yeah, I don't know, fascinating, Like I think I

1245
00:59:56,680 --> 00:59:58,520
Speaker 2: will continue to read about this, and I wish there

1246
00:59:58,520 --> 01:00:01,160
Speaker 2: has been like a book or a movie, because yeah,

1247
01:00:01,200 --> 01:00:01,960
Speaker 2: it's incredible.

1248
01:00:02,440 --> 01:00:03,680
Speaker 1: It's a fascinating time.

1249
01:00:04,240 --> 01:00:06,479
Speaker 2: Hey, Elizabeth, can I fix you a talk wrap in Tona?

1250
01:00:06,800 --> 01:00:08,240
Speaker 1: I would love one? Thank you?

1251
01:00:08,800 --> 01:00:15,560
Speaker 2: All right, let's see what we got here? Oh oh god,

1252
01:00:19,320 --> 01:00:19,760
Speaker 2: I love you.

1253
01:00:22,680 --> 01:00:25,720
Speaker 4: Hey, Aaron, want to know how Elizabeth's ruined my friend's lives?

1254
01:00:26,280 --> 01:00:29,640
Speaker 4: Close your eyes. You and I best buds walking down

1255
01:00:29,640 --> 01:00:32,920
Speaker 4: the street in Miami when you spot a sexy Latin

1256
01:00:33,000 --> 01:00:35,760
Speaker 4: girl walking right by Nice and Curvey built from the

1257
01:00:35,760 --> 01:00:38,440
Speaker 4: ground up, says Rubberbane on the side, and You're like,

1258
01:00:38,800 --> 01:00:41,760
Speaker 4: oooh my Macita, hey rich, look at the hot girl

1259
01:00:41,800 --> 01:00:44,200
Speaker 4: with the curves. And I'm like, yeah, baby, look at

1260
01:00:44,200 --> 01:00:46,760
Speaker 4: the curves on that Adam's apple. I want to lick

1261
01:00:46,840 --> 01:00:47,800
Speaker 4: that Adam's apple.

1262
01:00:48,160 --> 01:00:52,760
Speaker 1: Hubbubbu Wait, what happened? What just happened?

1263
01:00:53,760 --> 01:00:56,600
Speaker 2: I may freeze time again and go back and actually

1264
01:00:57,160 --> 01:00:59,880
Speaker 2: sound illustrate that picture it because that.

1265
01:01:00,840 --> 01:01:01,800
Speaker 3: I don't even know.

1266
01:01:01,960 --> 01:01:02,800
Speaker 1: How did I ruin?

1267
01:01:02,880 --> 01:01:03,040
Speaker 2: What?

1268
01:01:03,240 --> 01:01:04,400
Speaker 1: I don't even know?

1269
01:01:07,000 --> 01:01:08,080
Speaker 2: Let's just keep moving, Let's just.

1270
01:01:08,120 --> 01:01:09,800
Speaker 1: Keep just keep going, just keep going.

1271
01:01:10,800 --> 01:01:13,400
Speaker 2: Well that's it for today. You can find us pretty

1272
01:01:13,440 --> 01:01:16,360
Speaker 2: much on every ding dang platform as at Ridiculous Crime.

1273
01:01:16,680 --> 01:01:18,520
Speaker 2: You can send us an email at ridiculous Crime at

1274
01:01:18,520 --> 01:01:21,200
Speaker 2: gmail dot com, and if you download the free iHeart app,

1275
01:01:21,200 --> 01:01:23,280
Speaker 2: you can hit the talkback button as you're listening to

1276
01:01:23,280 --> 01:01:25,880
Speaker 2: an episode and leave us a thirty second voicemail like

1277
01:01:25,960 --> 01:01:28,160
Speaker 2: that one. We may even play it on the air,

1278
01:01:28,320 --> 01:01:36,640
Speaker 2: or we may not hit us up. Ridiculous Crime is

1279
01:01:36,640 --> 01:01:39,320
Speaker 2: hosted by Elizabeth Duttan and Zaren Burnett and Dave Cousten,

1280
01:01:39,600 --> 01:01:42,680
Speaker 2: produced and edited by Dick The Slip Dave Custin starring

1281
01:01:42,680 --> 01:01:46,840
Speaker 2: Annalise Rucker as Judith. Research is by Masquerading Marauder, Marisa

1282
01:01:46,920 --> 01:01:50,280
Speaker 2: Brown and Andrea The audacious song Sharpen Tear. The theme

1283
01:01:50,320 --> 01:01:53,160
Speaker 2: song is by President of Youth of America Thomas Lee

1284
01:01:53,240 --> 01:01:56,720
Speaker 2: and Travis Dutton, Attorney barred in mix Olidia post wardrobe

1285
01:01:56,760 --> 01:01:59,440
Speaker 2: is provided by Botany five hundred guest Aaron Mickup by

1286
01:01:59,440 --> 01:02:04,160
Speaker 2: Sparkleshot and mister Andre. Executive producers are well publicized Superdoper,

1287
01:02:04,200 --> 01:02:06,800
Speaker 2: Ben Bolin and California's Dreamy Kid.

1288
01:02:06,920 --> 01:02:18,680
Speaker 3: Noel Brown, Redicus Crime, Say It One More Time, Gequus Cry.

1289
01:02:19,760 --> 01:02:23,120
Speaker 3: Ridiculous Crime is a production of iHeartRadio four more podcasts.

1290
01:02:23,240 --> 01:02:26,440
Speaker 3: My heart Radio visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or

1291
01:02:26,440 --> 01:02:28,240
Speaker 3: wherever you listen to your favorite shows