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Speaker 1: This podcast has content that may not be appropriate for

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Speaker 1: all audiences. You'll hear about some difficult subjects like drug abuse,

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Speaker 1: domestic violence, suicidal thoughts, and sexual assault. Listener discretion is advised.

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Speaker 1: Episode ten, The Family Tree. Being an addict and being

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Speaker 1: in recovery completely changed high view to my life. I

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Speaker 1: could understand my mom's struggles intimately. I knew what it

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Speaker 1: was like to struggle with addiction, how it shapes your life,

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Speaker 1: and how hard it is to get clean. But I'd

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Speaker 1: spent years dealing with shit that nobody should ever have

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Speaker 1: to deal with, and I blamed her. I had a

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Speaker 1: laundry list of things that could have been different if

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Speaker 1: she had been a quote unquote normal mother. I had

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Speaker 1: to let go of that, and I had to accept that,

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Speaker 1: even though I was in recovery, she might never be.

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Speaker 1: My recovery gave me the strength to be any relationship

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Speaker 1: with someone who, at the time I expected to end

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Speaker 1: up dead in an alley with a needle in her arm.

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Speaker 1: That was a likely outcome. But then something happened. My

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Speaker 1: mom lost the most important person in her life and mine.

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Speaker 1: She couldn't be there to say goodbye. That was the

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Speaker 1: most devastating thing either of us have experienced. But it

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Speaker 1: set my mom on a path to change finally, and

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Speaker 1: she did just in time to make amends to another

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Speaker 1: important person in her life, to make it right before

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Speaker 1: losing them too. I'm Emmy, and this is crumbs. It's

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Speaker 1: a show up all the things we settle for and

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Speaker 1: the bits of ourselves that make us who we are. Hi, Mom, Hi,

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Speaker 1: So we just talk about my addiction and then my recovery.

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Speaker 2: How did it feel to talk about it?

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Speaker 1: Weird but good. So I'm in recovery and you're in prison.

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Speaker 2: Yep, and still in my addiction.

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Speaker 1: You know, you always write me and call me when

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Speaker 1: you're in prison, whether we're on good terms or bad terms,

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Speaker 1: like it just happens like you're like you just won't

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Speaker 1: go away. And so I knew that the right thing

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Speaker 1: to do because of you know, what I learned the

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Speaker 1: program was to be cordial with you. And during that time,

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Speaker 1: like my sponsor worked very closely with me, and I

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Speaker 1: learned that I had unrealistic expectations of what a fourteen

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Speaker 1: year old mother should be like, Like I expected a

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Speaker 1: fourteen year old mother to be like Carol Brady, and

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Speaker 1: that was unrealistic because you didn't have the tools, and

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Speaker 1: also like to see you as a person who was

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Speaker 1: also in her disease and sick. So I started having

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Speaker 1: a little bit of compassion. And then that's when I started,

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Speaker 1: you know, having more communication with you and sending you cars,

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Speaker 1: send you money, and.

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Speaker 2: Sending me emails. That was like my favorite thing. She

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Speaker 2: held back.

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Speaker 1: So you're in prison for the second time at this point,

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Speaker 1: where were you with everything?

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Speaker 2: I'd been there maybe a month or so when I

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Speaker 2: had this dream about my mom. Since I was in prison,

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Speaker 2: I want to hear your story first about Mamilicha.

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Speaker 1: Well, I'm in school. I am going to college in Pomona,

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Speaker 1: which is this little town outside of Los Angeles, and

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Speaker 1: then Mamilici gets really sick. So I'm driving to San

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Speaker 1: Diego a lot. She keeps coming in out of the hospital.

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Speaker 1: It was her her in her heart, and she comes

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Speaker 1: out of the hospital, they give her a pacemaker. She

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Speaker 1: went home, and then my Tia, Alma and my Odias

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Speaker 1: and I like we all spent like a weekend with her.

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Speaker 1: We took turns taking care of Like I could come

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Speaker 1: down and spend the weekend with her, and I did.

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Speaker 1: It was close to Easter and she's like, I like Gapriotala.

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Speaker 2: Her recipe was a piss.

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Speaker 1: She couldn't cook it because she was like very weak.

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Speaker 1: So I was like, tell me how to make it.

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Speaker 1: I'll make it as she did, like she gave me

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Speaker 1: the recipe, I wrote it down and I made it.

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Speaker 1: And then my friend invited me to go to this conference,

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Speaker 1: like a recovery conference. So I went and like the

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Speaker 1: main meeting at a conference, like when you're at the

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Speaker 1: recovery conference, the main meeting is like the big thing.

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Speaker 1: And I was about to start and I get a

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Speaker 1: call and to and I'm like, oh, should I take this?

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Speaker 1: I was like no, I'll just call her, like when

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Speaker 1: I'm out of the meeting. She can wait an hour

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Speaker 1: and a half, right, I'll call her an hour and

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Speaker 1: a half. So I didn't answer. She left me a voicemail.

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Speaker 2: Mama shot down, Hey, woit that you? Okay? Bye?

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Speaker 1: And then half an hour later, my phone just starts

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Speaker 1: ringing off the hook. So I picked up the phone

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Speaker 1: during the meeting and I'm like hello, and they said

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Speaker 1: you need to get to the hospital right now. So

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Speaker 1: I got in my car with my sponsee who was coincidentally,

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Speaker 1: the guy who taught me how to kiss when I

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Speaker 1: was fourteen. I sponsored him and so he was with me.

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Speaker 1: And I walked into the hospital to the emergency room

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Speaker 1: and like my aunt, my dear Letty just throw herself

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Speaker 1: on me, and she's like she's gone, and I'm like what.

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Speaker 1: And I just felt like I was in shock. I

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Speaker 1: had this feeling that I can't even describe, like this

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Speaker 1: big void in my stomach. And the first thing that

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Speaker 1: I thought of was like, my mom. I thought of

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Speaker 1: you because you weren't there, because you were in prison,

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Speaker 1: and I didn't know how we were going to communicate

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Speaker 1: that to you.

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Speaker 2: I had this dream about my mom and she was

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Speaker 2: like drowning in the ocean. I remember I got on

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Speaker 2: the phone early in the morning and I called Andrea

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Speaker 2: and I asked her, what's wrong with my mom? And

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Speaker 2: she said, I'm on my way to the hospital right now,

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Speaker 2: Mamilicha fell. By this time, my relationship with my mom

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Speaker 2: was it was not the same anymore. She was very

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Speaker 2: angry at me, and before I was arrested, I hadn't

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Speaker 2: seen her for maybe two three months. I didn't come

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Speaker 2: around anymore. I was able to talk to her while

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Speaker 2: she was in the hospital, and I remember telling her, Mom,

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Speaker 2: how do you feel? And she was like, I'm fine.

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Speaker 2: In Spanish, of course, she was telling me I'm fine,

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Speaker 2: I'm just a little tired. How are you? And we

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Speaker 2: talked for about two minutes and then I told her Mom,

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Speaker 2: I have to go, I have to hang up. I

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Speaker 2: said I love you, Mom, and she said I love

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Speaker 2: you too. And then she said drive safe and I

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Speaker 2: said do you know who this is? And she's like,

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Speaker 2: see Alma. She thought I was my sister, and then

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Speaker 2: I said no, it's me Hilda, and she went on, okay, bye,

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Speaker 2: And that was the last time that I ever spoke

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Speaker 2: to my mom before she passed away. So for a

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Speaker 2: long time that that was eating me alive because I

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Speaker 2: never really got to tell her how sorry I was

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Speaker 2: for so much. She died angry with me.

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Speaker 1: It's hard to relive all of this and listen to

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Speaker 1: things that we have gone through. Knowing that you were

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Speaker 1: incarcerated makes it so much more emotional for me. That's

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Speaker 1: the most pain I've ever felt in my life. And

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Speaker 1: I have a lot of compassion for you, knowing that

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Speaker 1: you had to deal with that, being locked up and

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Speaker 1: not being able to say your goodbyes to her. This

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Speaker 1: was my first no matter what. That's a recovery term

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Speaker 1: for moments when you're experiencing something awful, truly awful, and

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Speaker 1: no matter what, you don't drink, you don't use, and

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Speaker 1: you don't kill yourself. Even now, it's really hard to

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Speaker 1: talk about. So I can't even imagine what you were feeling.

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Speaker 2: I just felt so defeated, so like, fuck, I can't

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Speaker 2: do this anymore. I can't go on living like this.

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Speaker 2: And so something started changing inside of me. I kept

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Speaker 2: to myself a lot this time around. I did what

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Speaker 2: I was told. I just wanted to go home.

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Speaker 1: What was it about losing my militia that made you

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Speaker 1: want to change?

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Speaker 2: I think it was like everything, here's this person, like

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Speaker 2: the most important person in my life. She never got

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Speaker 2: to see me get sober. I never got to make

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Speaker 2: it up to her for all the pain I cost her.

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Speaker 2: I never got to tell her I'm sorry. Yeah, Mamilita

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Speaker 2: and I disagreed on a lot of things, but she

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Speaker 2: was the best mom, and I thought she'd always be

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Speaker 2: there to take care of everything, you know, and now

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Speaker 2: she's gone. She was really gone. I've just gone to prison.

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Speaker 2: Like before, I had to step up and take care

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Speaker 2: of my kids. All this time she was really gone,

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Speaker 2: and it's like something instantly changed inside me. I knew

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Speaker 2: that I was gonna have to step it up, be

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Speaker 2: there for you, for your sisters, for your brother, for

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Speaker 2: my grandkids, for my dad, for Papa Veto he was

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Speaker 2: still there. I was so scary, like, how am I

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Speaker 2: gonna go on without her? You know, yeah, the fuck

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Speaker 2: is gonna I know you felt the same, right.

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Speaker 1: I did, because even though I was living in a

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Speaker 1: different city and going to college, like knowing that my

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Speaker 1: reach I was there was like my security blanket and

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Speaker 1: I call her every day and she'd call me and

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Speaker 1: we just it was so hard.

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Speaker 2: Well, this was my second time in federal prison, totally

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Speaker 2: different from the first time because this time Daniela was

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Speaker 2: there with me. I remember when she first got there,

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Speaker 2: she was so skinny, and well, Danila's my baby girl,

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Speaker 2: you know, she's the youngest, and she was so young,

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Speaker 2: and to see her so skinny, so so messed up,

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Speaker 2: it just broke my heart. I remember I spoke to

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Speaker 2: the unit counselor and my roommate had just gone home,

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Speaker 2: and so I had an empty bunk in my room,

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Speaker 2: and so I asked if Daniella could be moved into

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Speaker 2: the room with me. She didn't want to at first,

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Speaker 2: but also Mamilicha had just passed away, and I just

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Speaker 2: remember that. That's when we started mending our relationship. And

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Speaker 2: there's this tree at that prison. This is where Mamilicha

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Speaker 2: did her ten years and she would send us pictures

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Speaker 2: of her standing by that tree. And now my daughter

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Speaker 2: and I are standing under that tree taking pictures as well.

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Speaker 2: And one day we we cried together and we talked

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Speaker 2: and we said, we're going to break this cycle. No

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Speaker 2: more coming to this tree for pictures. I wanted to

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Speaker 2: go home so bad, but when the eleven fell any convictions,

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Speaker 2: it wasn't going to happen. When I went in front

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Speaker 2: of the judge, he was not happy with me. I

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Speaker 2: wasn't going to go home soon. So his first offer

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Speaker 2: for me was ten years to life, and I was like,

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Speaker 2: what do you mean ten years? So my lawyer fought

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Speaker 2: for me, and the judge told me this is what

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Speaker 2: I'm going to do. I'm going to give you an

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Speaker 2: open lid. And I'm like, well, what is that You're

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Speaker 2: going to sign a deal, and I could give you

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Speaker 2: anything from five to forty years whatever I feel like

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Speaker 2: giving you, and you're going to be okay with that.

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Speaker 2: I didn't know how to feel about that, like, okay, well,

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Speaker 2: five years is not ten, right, forty years is not life,

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Speaker 2: but it's still a long time, like that's my whole life.

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Speaker 2: But I signed it, and he gave me six years,

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Speaker 2: and that's when I went to the program and so

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Speaker 2: my sobriety started July fourteenth of that year of twenty fourteen.

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Speaker 2: And then I got a job working at a call center.

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Speaker 2: I was making good money. I was doing my drug program,

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Speaker 2: I got my GED, I enrolled in college courses. I

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Speaker 2: was like hungry for as much as I could take

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Speaker 2: in to prepare me for when I got out.

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Speaker 1: I remember when you were gonna get out. I was

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Speaker 1: so nervous because I was just nervous of being disappointed again.

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Speaker 2: We're going to go through this all over again.

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Speaker 1: Because when you're in jail or prison, like I feel

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Speaker 1: like you're okay, Like I don't have to worry about you.

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Speaker 2: I wanted to do things different this time. I didn't

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Speaker 2: want to come back, and I didn't want my daughter

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Speaker 2: coming back. I wanted to be an example for my grandchildren,

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Speaker 2: and I wanted the love and respect of my children.

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Speaker 2: You had been there for me like so many times,

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Speaker 2: and I always let you down, and yet you would

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Speaker 2: always help me again because I would convince you. But

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Speaker 2: this time I wasn't going to try to convince anyone

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Speaker 2: that I had changed. I just wanted to do it

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Speaker 2: and earn the respect of my children. And I remember thinking,

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Speaker 2: there's nothing I can do to change the past, but

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Speaker 2: I could do as best as I can to fix

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Speaker 2: our present and future. And they finally cut down that

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Speaker 2: fut tree in the prison.

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Speaker 1: Good ridance.

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Speaker 2: So, yeah, recovery is a work in progress. But I

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Speaker 2: feel so lucky to do that and that you trust

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Speaker 2: me again.

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Speaker 1: Well, it took a while, remember Christmas a few years ago,

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Speaker 1: I think. So I came down to San Diego from

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Speaker 1: LA and I know the signs of when you start

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Speaker 1: using again. I know them very well. First, you'd start

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Speaker 1: disappearing for a long periods of time. Second, there's people

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Speaker 1: coming in and out of the house, people hang around,

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Speaker 1: and you can always tell there's a particular crowd. So

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Speaker 1: I walk into your house and there's this woman there,

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Speaker 1: and I can just tell she's from you know, someone

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Speaker 1: from the streets. And in that moment, I just I

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Speaker 1: knew the signs were there. Everything pointed that you were

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Speaker 1: using again, and that true hurts something in me. I

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Speaker 1: spent my whole life looking out for these signs and

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Speaker 1: expecting to get that call right that you're dead in

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Speaker 1: an alley with a need on your arm. But you

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Speaker 1: had been cleaned for a while. So I just started

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Speaker 1: spiraling like, oh my god, my mom's using again. And

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Speaker 1: I got very, very uncomfortable, and I left. I got

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Speaker 1: either as soon as possible. I ran out. I just

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Speaker 1: couldn't deal with the fact that you were using again.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I saw your face change completely, you made that

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Speaker 2: face you make. I knew exactly what you were thinking.

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Speaker 2: But I wasn't using. I hadn't relapsed.

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Speaker 1: No, you hadn't. Well, I mean, it was really trickered.

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Speaker 1: It was like fight or fight. And then it's easy

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Speaker 1: for me to forget when I get caught up in

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Speaker 1: the moment. But I have to remember that you have

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Speaker 1: a higher powers taking care of you, and I have

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Speaker 1: to trust that that you have your path, just so

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Speaker 1: that I don't drive myself crazy.

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Speaker 2: Which, by the way, I got nine years about what

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Speaker 2: too three weeks ago?

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Speaker 1: Oh wow, that's awesome.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, modulation July was big. Yeah, I think so. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: And I haven't seen you make that face in a while.

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Speaker 1: Actually, yeah, it's been a while. I really started to

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Speaker 1: believe in you after he started taking care of about

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Speaker 1: it and when you came home.

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Speaker 2: When I got out of there, my dad was a

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Speaker 2: different person, but so was I. I was also working

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Speaker 2: on myself and one of the first things I wanted

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Speaker 2: to do was I want to go spend time with

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Speaker 2: my dad. He was used to always like handing me

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Speaker 2: money or whatever, you know, and I just wanted to

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Speaker 2: show him I'm not here for that, Dad, I'm here

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Speaker 2: for you, you know. And I was determined to make

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Speaker 2: his last years as easy as possible, you know, which

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Speaker 2: I think. I think I did a really good job.

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Speaker 2: I cooked for him every day I had a job,

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Speaker 2: but I would also go feed him every day and

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Speaker 2: take him to buy his groceries, take him to the

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Speaker 2: Swami wherever he wanted to go, whatever he wanted to do.

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Speaker 2: That's what we did.

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Speaker 1: That's really sweet.

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Speaker 2: It was really nice. So he got really really sick

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Speaker 2: and went on hospice. I took him home. I put

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Speaker 2: his bed next to mine in my room. Andrea had

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Speaker 2: just had a baby. You were in LA. It was

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Speaker 2: really just Adrian and I and Adrian was so young

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Speaker 2: and I needed help, you know, like picking my dad up.

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Speaker 2: So I told Danielle, I told her go look for

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Speaker 2: your dad. Bring him. I need him now. At this time,

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Speaker 2: Kiko was already out of the picture. He was sew

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Speaker 2: into his addiction. After I got out of prison, he

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Speaker 2: was living on the streets. He overdosed a couple of times,

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Speaker 2: and we'd pick him up and try to help him out.

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Speaker 2: But he was literally living under a bridge on the streets.

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Speaker 1: That must have been really hard for you, being clean.

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Speaker 1: What this man that you love was still very much

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Speaker 1: in his addiction.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, at this point we'd been apart for a few

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Speaker 2: years already, but we'd kept in touch here and there.

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Speaker 2: I remember after I got out, I would go roam

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Speaker 2: the streets and find him just to take him something

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Speaker 2: to eat. Not very often because I had to be

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Speaker 2: careful not to get sucked back into that. I could

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Speaker 2: have been in that same position as him, you know,

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Speaker 2: living under a bridge, because for a long time that

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Speaker 2: was actually very likely. It was very sad but at

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Speaker 2: this time I needed him. I needed him to help

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Speaker 2: me with Babato. There was one thing that I was

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Speaker 2: so sure about is that no matter where Kigo was

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Speaker 2: or what he was going through, if I needed him,

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Speaker 2: he would be there for me. And I needed him

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Speaker 2: at that moment. He was there for the very last

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Speaker 2: few days of my dad's life, you know, and we

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Speaker 2: just made him as comfortable as possible. I remember I

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Speaker 2: put on music for him, I sat there and talked

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Speaker 2: to him and just I stayed with him like all

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Speaker 2: that evening. The nice thing is that I was talking

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Speaker 2: to him right before he passed. I told him, Dad,

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Speaker 2: you were such a good dad to me, you know.

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Speaker 2: I remember I started telling him how the first time

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Speaker 2: that you know, I rode a bike was with him.

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Speaker 2: And I don't remember everything I said, but I know

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Speaker 2: I was having like a serious talk with him. And

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Speaker 2: then I left to open the garage and I came

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Speaker 2: back upstairs and he he was gone. He was just

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Speaker 2: peacefully there gone. And I may have never had the

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Speaker 2: chance to tell my mom, you know, I'm sorry for

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Speaker 2: everything as I put her through hell, you know, oh

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Speaker 2: my god, I put her through a lot. But I

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Speaker 2: know that if there is a heaven, and if there

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Speaker 2: is any chance that they see each other again, I

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Speaker 2: know that he told her, you know, don't worry, She's okay.

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Speaker 1: That's really beautiful, Mom. But what a gift that you

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Speaker 1: get to make it right right? You get to do

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Speaker 1: a living amends to your mother by taking care of

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Speaker 1: Papa though my grandfather, your father, and showing up for

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Speaker 1: everyone else in your life, like your sisters and your

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Speaker 1: grandchildren and us like you know, now you get to

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Speaker 1: have a better quality of life. So I think that's

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Speaker 1: a blessing.

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Speaker 2: It is, That's exactly what it is. I couldn't have

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Speaker 2: asked for a better life. Sometimes I'm just like so

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Speaker 2: tired at the end of the day because I literally

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Speaker 2: finished doing something in that Grandma, Are you going to

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Speaker 2: take me here? Grandma? Or Adrian, what's for dinner? Or

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Speaker 2: you know, oh my god, I feel like an uber

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Speaker 2: driver sometimes. Ah. They always need to go somewhere. But

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Speaker 2: I love it.

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Speaker 1: That's just life it is.

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Speaker 2: I love my life today.

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Speaker 1: Me too. I spent my entire life trying to be

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Speaker 1: everything my mom wasn't. It took realizing the ways in

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Speaker 1: which we're similar trapped in cycles of violence, addiction, and

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Speaker 1: incarceration for me to change, I broke free for my mom.

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Speaker 1: It took losing her mom, the woman who shaped her,

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Speaker 1: who loved her fiercely and died angry with her. Mamilichia

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Speaker 1: built her family in the US from nothing. Now she

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Speaker 1: wouldn't be here to bail us out or pick up

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Speaker 1: the pieces. It was up to my mom to make

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Speaker 1: something of her life. She did, showing up for her

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Speaker 1: dad Paba Veto, and then her kids and now her grandkids.

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Speaker 1: So Mamilicha never got to see it. My mom did,

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Speaker 1: at long last, break the cycle. Things aren't perfect and

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Speaker 1: they never will be, but in so many ways this

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Speaker 1: reality exceeds my wildest dreams. I'm living in Los Angeles,

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Speaker 1: I'm helping others through recovery, and I became an actress,

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Speaker 1: maybe a few years later than I hoped to. But

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Speaker 1: still my mom's clean, something I never thought I'd say.

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Speaker 1: She's really showing up for our family in ways I

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Speaker 1: could even imagine throughout my childhood. And we can keep

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Speaker 1: it light family holidays, texting about reality TV, or get

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Speaker 1: into deep shit when we need to rehashing our darkest,

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Speaker 1: hardest moments like we did in these last ten episodes.

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Speaker 1: It's the best ending I could imagine, sharing the story

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Speaker 1: of our lives together. Hey, listeners, there's a lot of

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Speaker 1: difficult subjects that we cover in this show. If you're

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Speaker 1: someone you know needs help, you can reach the Substance

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Speaker 1: Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration Hotline at one eight

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Speaker 1: hundred sixty six ' two four three five seven. They'll

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Speaker 1: connect you with information and resources on treatment. There's also

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Speaker 1: the National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at one eight hundred two

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Speaker 1: seven three TA LK. Both are available twenty four to seven.

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Speaker 1: You don't have to be in crisis to reach out either.

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Speaker 1: They're available for anyone who needs help. Crumbs is a

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Speaker 1: Sonato production in partnership with Iheart's Michael Dura Network and

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Speaker 1: Trojan Horse. It's produced by Hannah Bottom and edited by

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Speaker 1: Margaret Catcher, Rodrigo Crespo and Alex Lumero, with support from

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Speaker 1: Elizabeth Schutzel. Original music by Dee Peter Schmidt and engineering

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00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:34,920
Speaker 1: by Carols Magagna Emanuel Barra Studio, Recording by j TV

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Speaker 1: Recording and Podcasting Studio. Executive produced by Cono Byrne and

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Speaker 1: Giselvan Says. For iHeart, Alex Fumetro and Margaret Catcher for

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Speaker 1: Trojan Horse, Camilla Victoriano and Joshua Weinstein for Sonoro and

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Speaker 1: me Emmi OLEA special things to Marina Coronella Gire and

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00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:57,399
Speaker 1: of course my mom Il Gambois. Listen to Crumbs on

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Speaker 1: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your

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Speaker 1: podcasts