WEBVTT - Mick Mulvaney Talks DOJ Dropping Election Obstruction Case

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.

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<v Speaker 2>As expected, the Department of Justice is moving through special

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<v Speaker 2>counsel Jack Smith to drop the twenty twenty election obstruction

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<v Speaker 2>case against the now President elect Donald Trump.

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<v Speaker 1>There will have been.

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<v Speaker 2>Signals that this would happen, as it is long standing

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<v Speaker 2>DOJ policy not to prosecute a sitting president, which Donald

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<v Speaker 2>Trump will become once again fifty six days from now.

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<v Speaker 2>But it does end what was already a historic prosecution

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<v Speaker 2>series of prosecution sprankly against Trump as an individual that

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<v Speaker 2>are now going away as he gets set to take

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<v Speaker 2>office for a second time, and of course the first

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<v Speaker 2>time around when he was the forty fifth President of

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<v Speaker 2>the United States, McK mulvaney was active in that administration.

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<v Speaker 2>He's former acting White House Chief of Staff under Trump,

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<v Speaker 2>former Director of the Office of Management and Budget, and

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<v Speaker 2>of course co founder as well of the House Freedom

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<v Speaker 2>Caucus as a former congressman to boot make We know

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<v Speaker 2>your resume is long. It's always good to have you

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<v Speaker 2>here on Bloomberg TV and radio. There's a lot I'd

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<v Speaker 2>like to get into when it comes to the Omb specifically,

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<v Speaker 2>but if we could just first get your reaction.

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<v Speaker 1>To this news.

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<v Speaker 2>I know you had strong feelings about the events in

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<v Speaker 2>and around January sixth. Now, Donald Trump not necessarily going

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<v Speaker 2>to be held accountable for any of that alleged action

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<v Speaker 2>that he took in the lead up to and during it.

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<v Speaker 2>But this is largely to be expected.

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<v Speaker 3>Right it is.

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<v Speaker 4>In fact, I think it's probably the biggest story that

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<v Speaker 4>everybody knew was going to happen anyway.

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<v Speaker 3>You can't.

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<v Speaker 4>I mean, it's been long standing policy, as you mentioned,

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<v Speaker 4>that you don't prosecute a sitting president, which means it

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<v Speaker 4>would have to sit there for at least four years

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<v Speaker 4>the prosecution would, which is not tenable. So I guess

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<v Speaker 4>this is an inevitable sort of side effect of the election.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and now we're getting a new announcement from the

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<v Speaker 2>DJ also formally moving to drop the other federal case

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<v Speaker 2>against Donald Trump, which was the classified documents case in Florida,

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<v Speaker 2>So both federal prosecutions are now out of the picture.

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<v Speaker 2>He of course, has had his sentencing in the case

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<v Speaker 2>in New York, the state case around the falsification of

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<v Speaker 2>business records in which he was convicted. That sentencing has

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<v Speaker 2>been pushed back indefinitely. We're not quite sure at this

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<v Speaker 2>time what's going to happen with the other state case

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<v Speaker 2>down in Georgia. But this effectively Mick puts to bed

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<v Speaker 2>all of his at least criminal legal issues. And I

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<v Speaker 2>do wonder if he wouldn't be about to go back

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<v Speaker 2>into the White House had they not happened, Had we

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<v Speaker 2>not had these series of indictments throughout the course of

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<v Speaker 2>what was his active presidential campaign, do you think he

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<v Speaker 2>still would have won.

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<v Speaker 4>I think it gave him and you and I have

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<v Speaker 4>talked about this before a couple of times. It gave

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<v Speaker 4>him a new message, It gave him a rallying cry.

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<v Speaker 4>Some of the criminal charges were so weak, Kaylee, and

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<v Speaker 4>I know I'm giving an opinion on that, but they

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<v Speaker 4>were facially very weak. The basis of the case, and

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<v Speaker 4>one of the cases in New York was that he

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<v Speaker 4>that he paid back a loan early that the debtor

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<v Speaker 4>didn't or the lender didn't complain about. Another case was

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<v Speaker 4>revolving around it, you know, criminal charges for legal hush

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<v Speaker 4>money payments.

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<v Speaker 3>And it gave him, you know, it raised a lot of.

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<v Speaker 4>Questions even with Democrats, as to whether or not he

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<v Speaker 4>would have been charged with those things if his name

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<v Speaker 4>wasn't Donald John Trump, and it gave him that new

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<v Speaker 4>rallying cry that you know, look at what they're doing

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<v Speaker 4>to me. If they can do it to me, they

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<v Speaker 4>can do it to you. Elect me, and that won't happen.

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<v Speaker 4>It reinvigorated his campaign. So from the very beginning, if

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<v Speaker 4>there's one human being probably most response with Donald Trump

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<v Speaker 4>going back to the White House, it's probably Alvin Bragg,

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<v Speaker 4>followed closely by Letitia.

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<v Speaker 2>James's incredible to consider, and of course, yes, we did

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<v Speaker 2>hear a lot about this from Donald Trump on the

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<v Speaker 2>campaign trail. Something else we heard from Trump frequently while

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<v Speaker 2>he was campaigning is that he had nothing to do

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<v Speaker 2>with the Heritage Foundation's Project twenty twenty five. And yet

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<v Speaker 2>we have seen a number of people named to be

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<v Speaker 2>part of his second administration who were affiliated or contributed

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<v Speaker 2>to that project. And in fact, just a few weeks ago,

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<v Speaker 2>Joe got to sit down with the pressident of Heritage,

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<v Speaker 2>Kevin Roberts, who told him this about the way in

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<v Speaker 2>which it could be informing this incoming administration's policy decisions.

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<v Speaker 5>We think that this is the beginning of a golden

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<v Speaker 5>era of conservative reform.

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<v Speaker 3>I will say that because the work.

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<v Speaker 5>Of Project twenty twenty five represents the conservative movement. It

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<v Speaker 5>would be very difficult for anybody to implement policies on education,

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<v Speaker 5>on the border, on taxation without at least consulting those

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<v Speaker 5>ideas in people. That's not some arrogant or hubistic comment

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<v Speaker 5>on our part. That's just the nature of how policy

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<v Speaker 5>making works.

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<v Speaker 2>And one of those people make that contributed to Project

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<v Speaker 2>twenty twenty twenty five has now been tapped to take

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<v Speaker 2>your old job, OMB Director Russ Vote will be reprising

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<v Speaker 2>his role.

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<v Speaker 1>And I do wonder what you make of that choice.

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<v Speaker 2>And if it actually does signal anything about the way

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<v Speaker 2>in which Project twenty twenty five could be working its

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<v Speaker 2>way into outcomes in this administration.

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah. I mean, look what I think the guy Heritage

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<v Speaker 4>was trying to say, in so many words, is twenty

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<v Speaker 4>twenty Project twenty twenty twenty five is just Republican conservative

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<v Speaker 4>orthodoxy in a lot of different places. So if you're

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<v Speaker 4>going to be a Republican president, you're going to probably

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<v Speaker 4>put into place a lot of things that happened to

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<v Speaker 4>be in Project twenty twenty five. I do think that

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<v Speaker 4>the Trump campaign sort of moved away from the project because,

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<v Speaker 4>in large part of the positions on abortion, which they

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<v Speaker 4>considered to be a liability politically. But look, it's conservative

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<v Speaker 4>orthodoxy and that's what's going forward.

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<v Speaker 3>You asked me about Russ. I'm very excited about this.

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<v Speaker 4>In fact, I think, you know, Elon Musk and Vivek

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<v Speaker 4>Ramaswami get all the attention for this Department of Government efficiency,

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<v Speaker 4>and they should, and it's an important thing that they're doing.

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<v Speaker 4>But in order to implement the things that I think

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<v Speaker 4>they're going to start recommending, you have to have Omb

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<v Speaker 4>on board. And nobody knows more about government works or

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<v Speaker 4>it doesn't work than Russ's votes. I thought it was

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<v Speaker 4>a really really solid decision at Omb, and he'll make

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<v Speaker 4>a good member of that government deficiency team. Keep in mind,

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<v Speaker 4>the last time President Trump asked somebody to restructure the

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<v Speaker 4>federal government, it was me, and we didn't have much

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<v Speaker 4>because the whole of the deep state was against us, and.

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<v Speaker 3>Some of our cabinet secretaries were against us.

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<v Speaker 4>I think I don't think that that troika of Elon,

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<v Speaker 4>Vivek and Russ are going to have the same impediments

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<v Speaker 4>that we had in twenty eighteen.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, and you could potentially add another name to that team,

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<v Speaker 2>as well as Congressman Marjorie Taylor Green of Georgia. Apparently

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<v Speaker 2>we'll be leading a House oversight subcommittee helping implement the

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<v Speaker 2>DOGE recommendations. I do wonder though, as we know that

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<v Speaker 2>that Department quote unquote does have intel July fourth of

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<v Speaker 2>twenty twenty six to make these proposals. To do this work,

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<v Speaker 2>there are going to be spending battles being thought in

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<v Speaker 2>Congress well before then. Basically right when we get into

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<v Speaker 2>the new year, the new Congress and the new administration

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<v Speaker 2>make we're going to have to deal not just with

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<v Speaker 2>regular appropriations, but a debt stealing fight as well. And

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<v Speaker 2>I wonder how you think russ vote will navigate those

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<v Speaker 2>what it means for the ultimate outcomes of what those

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<v Speaker 2>deals could look like.

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<v Speaker 4>Well, what Russ is going to do, and this is

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<v Speaker 4>what's good staff as are supposed to do. And Russ

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<v Speaker 4>was a good staffer in the previous administration. I have

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<v Speaker 4>every expectation he's going to be a good staffer going forward.

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<v Speaker 4>Is simply laying out the facts and the arguments for

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<v Speaker 4>the President. Russ is a lot more fiscally conservative than

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<v Speaker 4>the president.

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<v Speaker 3>United States is, just as I was Trump wanted to.

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<v Speaker 4>Hear from the fiscally conservative wing of the party, and

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<v Speaker 4>he wanted to hear from other folks as well, and

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<v Speaker 4>Russ will be the loudest voice in those discussions. You're right,

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<v Speaker 4>we've got appropriations bills to deal with, You've got the

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<v Speaker 4>debt ceiling to deal with.

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<v Speaker 3>You've got to look very closely.

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<v Speaker 4>Kailey, to that first sort of that thin budget that

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<v Speaker 4>will come out in the first couple of weeks of

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<v Speaker 4>the administration, because that will be the first indication is

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<v Speaker 4>what their priorities. Our president's budget is a messaging budget,

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<v Speaker 4>you know, what are their priorities going to be? And

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<v Speaker 4>Russ will be obviously have his hand in that. So

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<v Speaker 4>it's going to be a very quick or a fast

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<v Speaker 4>moving couple of weeks on those spending issues.

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<v Speaker 3>And it will be interesting to see.

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<v Speaker 4>Whether or not Trump comes down sort of with that more,

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<v Speaker 4>you know, the heavier spending side of the party or

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<v Speaker 4>the fiscally conservative side of the party that Russ represents.

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<v Speaker 3>So well well.

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<v Speaker 2>And in those initial those first weeks, Mick, there also

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<v Speaker 2>is going to be a really narrow majority in the chamber.

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<v Speaker 2>You used to sit in the House of Representatives. It's

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<v Speaker 2>really going to be only a few votes that Mike

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<v Speaker 2>Johnson can afford to lose as Speaker because Trump has

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<v Speaker 2>pulled three members of the House for this administration, or

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<v Speaker 2>I guess when you include Matt Gates having resigned no

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<v Speaker 2>longer being part of the administration, that's still a vote

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<v Speaker 2>gone in a special election that's not being held until

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<v Speaker 2>April first. How hard is this going to be to

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<v Speaker 2>get done with such a slim majority?

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<v Speaker 3>Really hard.

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<v Speaker 4>I think people lose sight of the fact it's not

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<v Speaker 4>quite as bad as it sounds, just because technically Waltz

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<v Speaker 4>is still a member of the House and can still vote.

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<v Speaker 3>Traditionally you don't, but you can.

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<v Speaker 4>I never voted after I was nominated for the OMB

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<v Speaker 4>back in twenty seventeen, but I could have.

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<v Speaker 3>It would have been legal for me to do that.

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<v Speaker 4>So until those folks are confirmed, all those House members,

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<v Speaker 4>they are still sitting and can vote, so they don't

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<v Speaker 4>really lose those Republican votes. Mike Johnson doesn't lose those

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<v Speaker 4>Republican votes until those folks resign. Now, yes, obviously mentioned

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<v Speaker 4>Matt Gates has already gone, so that narrows it a

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<v Speaker 4>little bit. But to your point, it's going to be tight.

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<v Speaker 4>There's no question about that. And he's not going to

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<v Speaker 4>be able to afford to lose any folks, I think,

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<v Speaker 4>any votes. I think the one thing that's sort of

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<v Speaker 4>sitting there, the eight hundred pound gerrill in the room,

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<v Speaker 4>is it.

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<v Speaker 3>Donald Trump still.

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<v Speaker 4>Has a lot of influence over the Republican Party, probably

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<v Speaker 4>never more so than now, and if they want to

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<v Speaker 4>whip votes, they should be very successful in doing that well, perhaps.

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<v Speaker 2>Though not enough influence over at least the Republicans in

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<v Speaker 2>the Senate to be able to get someone like Gates

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<v Speaker 2>through the confirmation process, hence himself gains taking.

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<v Speaker 1>Himself out of contention for that role.

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<v Speaker 2>When we look at some of these other nominees Toolsey Gabbard,

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<v Speaker 2>RFK Junior, Pete Hegseeth, do you think there could still

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<v Speaker 2>be Republican resistance adequate enough to potentially tank those nominations, Mick?

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<v Speaker 1>Or is everyone else going to get through?

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<v Speaker 4>You know, it's a really good questions, one of those

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<v Speaker 4>inside the Beltway questions, because oftentimes it's not every single administration,

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<v Speaker 4>but oftentimes what will happen is an incoming administration will

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<v Speaker 4>offer up a sacrificial lamb somebody they know they can't

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<v Speaker 4>get confirmed because they're too extreme one way or the other,

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<v Speaker 4>but it satisfies their base and it gives sort of

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<v Speaker 4>a little sop to the minority party in the Senate.

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<v Speaker 4>We saw this back in twenty twenty one with Nero Tieten,

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<v Speaker 4>who was nominated for omb by the Biden administration, even

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<v Speaker 4>though a lot of Democrats thought she was too progressively

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<v Speaker 4>left to get confirmed, and indeed she wasn't. They took

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<v Speaker 4>that name down. Was Matt Gates that sacrificial lamb? Or

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<v Speaker 4>was he sort of a different thing entirely. I think

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<v Speaker 4>if you look at the if you look at the

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<v Speaker 4>names you just gave, I gotta think Kennedy's got the

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<v Speaker 4>toughest road.

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<v Speaker 3>Just because he's such a weird guy.

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<v Speaker 4>I mean, I hate to use the word that you

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<v Speaker 4>know that were meant something before Tim Wall start using

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<v Speaker 4>on the campaign. But he's he's he's an unusual human being,

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<v Speaker 4>and it should make for an interesting confirmation process. Haig

0:10:47.240 --> 0:10:51.520
<v Speaker 4>Seth will get the attention because of the post. Obviously, HHS,

0:10:51.559 --> 0:10:53.760
<v Speaker 4>which Kennedy's nominated for, is not as critical, is not

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<v Speaker 4>as perceived as being you know, as high rankings as

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<v Speaker 4>the Secretary of defense is But every time people ask

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<v Speaker 4>about Hegseth, I say, look, if he wasn't on TV,

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<v Speaker 4>and he was just somebody with degrees from Princeton and

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<v Speaker 4>Harvard who had written a couple of books on the topic,

0:11:07.600 --> 0:11:11.000
<v Speaker 4>had two Bronze stars, served overseas two different times, I

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<v Speaker 4>don't think you'd be getting the negative attention that you were.

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<v Speaker 3>So I think Hegseth is fine. I think tool Ce

0:11:15.720 --> 0:11:16.040
<v Speaker 3>is fine.

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<v Speaker 4>I think if anybody is going to have the biggest challenge,

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<v Speaker 4>it's going to be Kennedy.

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<v Speaker 1>Well and finally Mick.

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<v Speaker 2>As we consider here the notion of future challenges around

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<v Speaker 2>all of these things, I do wonder, assuming that these

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<v Speaker 2>people can't even get confirmed, what challenges they may face

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<v Speaker 2>upon actually stepping into the job if this transition is

0:11:37.640 --> 0:11:39.960
<v Speaker 2>delayed because of a lack of signing of ethics and

0:11:40.000 --> 0:11:44.040
<v Speaker 2>transparency pledges in order to get access to the classified

0:11:44.120 --> 0:11:46.840
<v Speaker 2>or at least not public information they need to do

0:11:46.960 --> 0:11:47.520
<v Speaker 2>their roles.

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<v Speaker 1>What do you make of the slow walking here?

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<v Speaker 3>Listen, that's slow walking. It works both ways. There's a net.

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<v Speaker 4>You're seeing a natural tension now between the administrative of

0:11:56.880 --> 0:11:59.200
<v Speaker 4>the executive branch and the legislative branch. It has very

0:11:59.240 --> 0:12:01.880
<v Speaker 4>little to do with part and everything to do with structure.

0:12:02.480 --> 0:12:05.080
<v Speaker 4>The incomeing administration doesn't want to sort of give everything

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<v Speaker 4>to the Senate all at one time, and the Senate

0:12:07.040 --> 0:12:09.199
<v Speaker 4>doesn't want to move very quickly. Keep in mind, I've

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<v Speaker 4>often said that, you know, advise and consent has in

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<v Speaker 4>large part become extort and delay. I can't tell you

0:12:14.800 --> 0:12:17.480
<v Speaker 4>the number of Republican centers who called me when I said,

0:12:17.520 --> 0:12:19.680
<v Speaker 4>OHMB trying to get stuff out of me in exchange

0:12:19.679 --> 0:12:22.199
<v Speaker 4>for lower level confirmations moving forward.

0:12:21.960 --> 0:12:25.120
<v Speaker 3>And so forth. So there's that natural tension.

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<v Speaker 4>I think it's important that the Treasury Secretary go early,

0:12:28.760 --> 0:12:31.600
<v Speaker 4>Secretary of State Defense go early, and that the OMB

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<v Speaker 4>go early, just because you do have to write that

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<v Speaker 4>budget very quickly.

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<v Speaker 3>My guess is those.

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<v Speaker 4>Will be the first ones confirmed, and then the other

0:12:38.360 --> 0:12:40.640
<v Speaker 4>ones may drag out over the course of the next

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<v Speaker 4>couple of months.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, of course, he used to be director of the

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<v Speaker 2>UMB himself. Mick Malvaney also former acting chief of Staff

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<v Speaker 2>in the first Trump White House. Joining us here on

0:12:50.800 --> 0:12:52.800
<v Speaker 2>balance of power. Thank you so much.