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Speaker 1: Welcome to Brainstuff, a production of iHeartRadio, Hey Brainstuff, Lauren

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Speaker 1: Voleebaum Here. In all but four states and territories in

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Speaker 1: the US, having been convicted of a felony means that

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Speaker 1: you can lose your right to vote in federal and

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Speaker 1: local elections, sometimes until you're out of prison, sometimes until

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Speaker 1: you complete your full sentence, including parole or probation, and

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Speaker 1: sometimes forever. The laws that governed voting are decided by

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Speaker 1: each state, but national laws say that a convicted felon

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Speaker 1: can run for the highest office in the country, as

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Speaker 1: is evidenced by Donald Trump's campaign following his conviction on

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Speaker 1: thirty four felony counts. So how can this be? The

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Speaker 1: framers of the Constitution made it really hard to disqualify

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Speaker 1: anyone from becoming president, and that's meant to be a

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Speaker 1: good thing. Okay, let's talk about federal laws. Federal laws

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Speaker 1: and the consequences for breaking them are written by Congress,

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Speaker 1: but even Congress doesn't have the final word. A federal

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Speaker 1: law that's been on the books can still be struck

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Speaker 1: down by the Supreme Court if it's found to be

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Speaker 1: in violation of the Constitution, and it's the Constitution an

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Speaker 1: Article two, Section one, Clause five, specifically that clearly lays

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Speaker 1: out the qualifications for the presidency. No person except a

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Speaker 1: natural born citizen or a citizen of the United States

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Speaker 1: at the time of the adoption of this Constitution shall

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Speaker 1: be eligible to the office of President. Neither shall any

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Speaker 1: person be eligible to that office who shall have not

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Speaker 1: attained to the age of thirty five years and been

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Speaker 1: fourteen years resident within the United States. So if Congress

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Speaker 1: wanted to write a law that adds qualifications or disqualifications

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Speaker 1: for federal office, it would be practically impossible. As we've

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Speaker 1: talked about before in our episode about why the age

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Speaker 1: limit is thirty five for the article. This episode is

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Speaker 1: based on how Stuffworks spoke back in twenty twenty two

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Speaker 1: with Derek Muller, a law professor at the University of

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Speaker 1: Iowa College of Law. He said, there's a pretty robust

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Speaker 1: understanding of law that says Congress cannot add qualifications for

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Speaker 1: federal office. You can imagine as a practical matter why

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Speaker 1: that would be a problem. Congress could pass a statute

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Speaker 1: that disqualifies its political enemies or makes it more difficult

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Speaker 1: for its disfavored candidates to win. Even if a federal

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Speaker 1: law says that violators will be disqualified from holding office.

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Speaker 1: It could be challenged in court, and odds are very

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Speaker 1: good that the Supreme Court justices would strike down the

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Speaker 1: disqualification part as unconstitutional and let the person run for

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Speaker 1: office again. There is, however, a previously little known clause

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Speaker 1: in the Constitution that disqualifies people from office who have

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Speaker 1: committed one specific crime, insurrection. It comes in Section three

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Speaker 1: of the fourteenth Amendment, and it's really worthy, so I'm

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Speaker 1: not going to read it in full, but it says

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Speaker 1: that if you've previously taken an oath of office to

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Speaker 1: support the US government, and then you engaged in insurrection

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Speaker 1: or rebellion against the US government or gave aid or

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Speaker 1: comfort to its enemies, then you cannot hold office again

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Speaker 1: unless Congress puts it to a vote and two thirds

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Speaker 1: of both houses vote that you can. Muller said, that's

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Speaker 1: the only other place in the Constitution that says this

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Speaker 1: is prohibited conduct, and we don't want individuals serving in

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Speaker 1: government who have assisted in some sort of rebellion. The

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Speaker 1: Fourteenth Amendment was written in the wake of the Civil War,

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Speaker 1: when Congress wanted to prevent any officials who served in

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Speaker 1: the Confederacy from holding federal or state office again unless

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Speaker 1: Congress specifically and broadly approved of them. This disqualification clause

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Speaker 1: of the fourteenth Amendment was collecting dust until the January sixth,

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Speaker 1: twenty twenty attack on the Capital and accusations that former

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Speaker 1: President Trump incited the insurrection. But what exactly would it

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Speaker 1: take for Trump or another government official who had previously

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Speaker 1: taken an oath to be disqualified from office under the

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Speaker 1: fourteenth Amendment. There's a lot of debate. Does the individual

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Speaker 1: need to be convicted of inciting or supporting a rebellion?

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Speaker 1: Does Congress have to pass a separate enabling statuette that

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Speaker 1: identifies the individuals who participated in the insurrection or rebellion.

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Speaker 1: There are even people who question whether the disqualification applies

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Speaker 1: to the presidency at all. Muller added that the framers

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Speaker 1: of the Constitution consciously set a very low bar of

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Speaker 1: entry for running for office. Unlike European aristocracies, American officeholders

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Speaker 1: didn't have to own land or be wealthy. That's the

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Speaker 1: beauty of American style democracy, and it goes for those

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Speaker 1: convicted of felonies and other crimes. In the nineteen twenty

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Speaker 1: presidential election, the outspoken socialist Eugene Debs campaigned for president

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Speaker 1: from a federal prison in Georgia. Adebs was charged and

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Speaker 1: convicted of sedition in nineteen eighteen for his fiery speeches

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Speaker 1: denouncing America's participation in World War One. Running as convict

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Speaker 1: number nine sixty five three, Debs won three point five

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Speaker 1: percent of the vote in nineteen twenty. More recently, the

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Speaker 1: fringe politician Lyndon LaRouche ran for president three times in

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Speaker 1: the nineteen nineties and early two thousands after serving seven

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Speaker 1: years at a federal prison for defrauding the irs. But okay,

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Speaker 1: just about anybody can run for political office in America.

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Speaker 1: But is there a difference between running and winning? If

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Speaker 1: a criminal or suspected trader is elected to office, are

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Speaker 1: there other ways to remove them or disqualify them from

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Speaker 1: running again? Ya impeachment being the big one. According to

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Speaker 1: the Constitution, Congress has the authority to launch impeachment proceedings

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Speaker 1: against all civil officers of the United States. If a

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Speaker 1: majority of the House votes to impeach, that's followed by

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Speaker 1: a trial in the Senate. If the Senate votes to

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Speaker 1: convict the official of treason, bribery or other high crimes

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Speaker 1: and misdemeanors, the person is removed from office. Only twenty

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Speaker 1: civil officers have ever been impeached, fifteen federal judges, three presidents,

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Speaker 1: a cabinet secretary, and a US senator. Only eight of

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Speaker 1: this group, all federal judges, were convicted and removed from

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Speaker 1: office by the Senate. Disqualification from future office is an

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Speaker 1: optional punishment with impeachment. In its history, the Senate has

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Speaker 1: only barred three people from serving again in the federal government, again,

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Speaker 1: all federal judges. There's a cheap joke in here somewhere

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Speaker 1: about how all politicians are criminals anyway, But of course

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Speaker 1: who we elect to represent us and our government is

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Speaker 1: very serious. It's a good thing that our laws don't

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Speaker 1: place many restrictions on who can run for office. After all,

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Speaker 1: we the people should decide who should be in office

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Speaker 1: with our vote. It's up to us to look at

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Speaker 1: candidates earnestly and fully and decide whether their behavior represents

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Speaker 1: us and whether it should bar them from office. Today's

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Speaker 1: episode is based on the article does a criminal conviction

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Speaker 1: bar you from running for US President? On HowStuffWorks dot Com,

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Speaker 1: written by Dave Ruse brain Stuff is production of iHeartRadio

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Speaker 1: in partnership with HowStuffWorks dot Com and is produced by

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Speaker 1: Tyler Klang. Four more podcasts from iHeartRadio. Visit the iHeartRadio app,

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Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.