WEBVTT - Civic Cipher 122521 Why is Blackface so Offensive (Part A) 0:00:00.280 --> 0:00:03.400 Welcome to another episode of Civic Cicher. I'm your host, rams' 0:00:03.600 --> 0:00:08.039 Jah and I go buy the name q board. Yes, indeed, 0:00:09.960 --> 0:00:12.080 it's been a great year so far, almost done with 0:00:12.160 --> 0:00:14.760 it and we got a lot for you to stick 0:00:14.800 --> 0:00:18.360 around for as we head into the last couple of 0:00:18.440 --> 0:00:21.360 episodes of the year. Uh, stay tuned because today we're 0:00:21.360 --> 0:00:24.599 going to discuss a couple of things, you know, a 0:00:24.600 --> 0:00:26.880 more conceptual show. We haven't really had a chance to 0:00:26.880 --> 0:00:28.360 do a lot of these because the year has been 0:00:28.400 --> 0:00:31.000 so full of events. But we're going to talk about 0:00:31.040 --> 0:00:34.680 black face and why it's so offensive for those that 0:00:35.000 --> 0:00:37.680 might not know, you know, for people that you know, 0:00:37.720 --> 0:00:40.280 ask the question, and it's the big deal. Come Halloween, 0:00:40.520 --> 0:00:43.280 you know movies or you know, a costume party or whatever, 0:00:43.320 --> 0:00:45.319 what's the big deal. We're gonna kind of peel away 0:00:45.320 --> 0:00:47.519 a couple of layers there. We're also going to talk 0:00:47.520 --> 0:00:52.680 about what a culture vulture is. Now, there's you know 0:00:52.800 --> 0:00:55.000 terms that a lot of folks here, you know, culture 0:00:55.040 --> 0:00:57.400 vulture might be someone who's really in art or something 0:00:57.480 --> 0:01:01.120 like that, but if you've heard it in certain circles, 0:01:01.320 --> 0:01:04.959 especially like black brown, you know, indigenous circles, culture culture 0:01:05.040 --> 0:01:08.120 means something very different. You've hurt that. We're gonna peel 0:01:08.120 --> 0:01:10.000 away a couple of layers of that as well and 0:01:11.040 --> 0:01:14.520 really try to zero in on what that means and 0:01:14.520 --> 0:01:17.240 how that feels. Also on the show, we're going to 0:01:17.720 --> 0:01:21.400 discuss Santa Claus and the roots of Santa Claus. You know, 0:01:21.440 --> 0:01:24.280 there's a lot of people every year around this time 0:01:24.319 --> 0:01:28.720 that you know, discuss black Santa Clauses in the mall, 0:01:28.800 --> 0:01:32.560 and there's actually a connection to black Santa historical connection 0:01:32.640 --> 0:01:34.640 to a black Santa Claus that you may not know about. 0:01:34.640 --> 0:01:36.880 So we're going to discuss that for our way Black 0:01:36.959 --> 0:01:39.440 History fact as well as some other things that we're 0:01:39.440 --> 0:01:43.200 going to discuss, not the least of which is, you know, 0:01:43.400 --> 0:01:48.840 our a story about a gentleman who is facing I 0:01:48.840 --> 0:01:51.320 believe it's one hundred and ten year sentence for some 0:01:52.480 --> 0:01:57.240 a truck driver in Colorado that you know, we'll give 0:01:57.280 --> 0:02:00.840 us a chance to examine how sentencing were in this country. 0:02:00.880 --> 0:02:03.920 But first we're going to do like we always do 0:02:04.000 --> 0:02:11.480 at this time and discuss some ebony excellence. And fortunately 0:02:11.480 --> 0:02:13.000 we got a chance to talk a little bit about 0:02:13.000 --> 0:02:17.160 this before we started recording today. So Bell hooks Q 0:02:20.120 --> 0:02:23.560 this is someone that you know about to some degree. 0:02:24.040 --> 0:02:26.919 So I'm going to read a couple of things here 0:02:27.000 --> 0:02:30.600 about her. This I believe came from Wikipedia. 0:02:31.040 --> 0:02:31.280 Yeah. 0:02:31.360 --> 0:02:35.239 Wikipedia. So we're just gonna, you know, dedicate a little 0:02:35.280 --> 0:02:36.919 time to her, just so you're aware. 0:02:37.040 --> 0:02:37.120 So. 0:02:37.840 --> 0:02:42.160 Gloria Gene Watkins who passed December fifteenth, the better known 0:02:42.240 --> 0:02:45.760 by her pen name Bell Hooks, was an American author, professor, feminist, 0:02:45.760 --> 0:02:48.480 and social activist. The name Bell Hooks is borrowed from 0:02:48.520 --> 0:02:52.519 her maternal great grandmother, Bell Blair Hooks. The focus of 0:02:52.600 --> 0:02:56.760 Hooks's writing was the intersectionality of race, capitalism, and gender, 0:02:57.120 --> 0:02:59.239 and what she described as their ability to produce and 0:02:59.280 --> 0:03:03.720 perpetuates systems of oppression and class domination. She published more 0:03:03.760 --> 0:03:07.960 than thirty books and numerous scholarly articles, appeared in documentary films, 0:03:08.000 --> 0:03:12.440 and participated in public lectures. Her work addressed race, class, gender, 0:03:12.639 --> 0:03:18.160 art history, sexuality, mass media, and feminism. Also as an academic, 0:03:18.200 --> 0:03:22.160 she taught at institutions including Stanford University, Yale University, and 0:03:22.240 --> 0:03:25.359 the City College of New York before before in two 0:03:25.360 --> 0:03:29.600 thousand and four, joining Brea College in Brea, Kentucky, where 0:03:29.639 --> 0:03:33.239 a decade later she founded the Bell Hooks Institute. South 0:03:33.400 --> 0:03:36.720 End Press published her first major work, Ain't I A Woman? 0:03:37.120 --> 0:03:40.560 Black Women, and Feminism in nineteen eighty one, though she 0:03:40.600 --> 0:03:43.120 had written it years earlier while still an undergraduate. In 0:03:43.160 --> 0:03:45.720 a decade since its publication, Ain't I A Woman has 0:03:45.720 --> 0:03:49.240 been recognized for its contribution to feminist thought, with Publishers 0:03:49.280 --> 0:03:51.600 Weekly in nineteen ninety two naming it one of the 0:03:51.640 --> 0:03:57.080 twenty most influential women's books in the last twenty years. 0:03:57.120 --> 0:03:59.760 And what we were discussing before the show is that 0:04:00.000 --> 0:04:02.720 an example of a life well lived. Unfortunately we did 0:04:02.760 --> 0:04:04.720 get to talk about her. You know, our show is 0:04:04.760 --> 0:04:08.600 only a year old, but you know, posthumously, we're going 0:04:08.640 --> 0:04:12.360 to take a moment and honor her as our testament 0:04:12.640 --> 0:04:15.440 to eb any excellence. So rest in peace. Bell Hooks. 0:04:15.480 --> 0:04:18.039 Thank you for all of your contributions to. 0:04:18.520 --> 0:04:20.919 Such an appropriate title to Ain't I a Woman? 0:04:21.400 --> 0:04:22.240 Right exactly? 0:04:22.360 --> 0:04:24.400 You know, speaking of feminism, you know, shout out to 0:04:24.440 --> 0:04:29.839 Sojourner truth and just I don't know, man, maybe that's 0:04:29.839 --> 0:04:31.880 something that you know, maybe in the future we can 0:04:31.920 --> 0:04:35.279 spend some time diving into because I don't think people 0:04:35.360 --> 0:04:38.960 have as complete an understanding of the feminist movement as 0:04:38.960 --> 0:04:42.159 they should or about sojourn are true who we have to, 0:04:42.320 --> 0:04:43.599 you know, bring her up in the way. 0:04:43.400 --> 0:04:46.360 Black Yeah, yeah, absolutely, And you know, not to take 0:04:46.400 --> 0:04:48.320 too much away from what we're talking about next. But 0:04:49.520 --> 0:04:54.440 I actually got a chance to check this workout in 0:04:54.520 --> 0:04:57.159 my in one of my classes that doctor Westernberg taught 0:04:57.160 --> 0:04:59.320 when I was in college. Doctor Westernberg, for those who 0:04:59.320 --> 0:05:01.640 don't know, is if frequent contributor to the show here. 0:05:01.680 --> 0:05:05.720 She was my teacher once upon a time, and this 0:05:05.760 --> 0:05:07.559 book written by Bell Hooks was one of the books 0:05:07.560 --> 0:05:10.400 that we used as textbook in our class. And so 0:05:11.040 --> 0:05:13.560 bell Hooks is a name that we know very well 0:05:13.600 --> 0:05:18.920 around here. And the plight of women, black women, black people, 0:05:19.240 --> 0:05:23.080 all marginalized people is all kind of intertwined and between 0:05:23.120 --> 0:05:26.080 her and Angela Davis and so general truth and so forth, 0:05:26.160 --> 0:05:29.039 these are folks that really kind of helped us to 0:05:29.520 --> 0:05:31.559 be as free in the world that we're living in today. 0:05:31.640 --> 0:05:33.800 So one more time, shout out to Belle Hooks, thank 0:05:33.839 --> 0:05:41.920 you very much for a life well lived. Now, why 0:05:42.120 --> 0:05:49.000 is black face so offensive? So I pulled us a 0:05:49.080 --> 0:05:51.960 little bit more from Wikipedia here just to kind of 0:05:52.000 --> 0:05:57.840 set the stage, So bear with me. Blackface is a 0:05:57.880 --> 0:06:03.400 form of theatrical makeup used predominantly by performers of non 0:06:03.520 --> 0:06:10.040 African descent to portray a caricature of a dark skinned 0:06:10.080 --> 0:06:14.720 person of African descent. In the United States, the practice 0:06:14.760 --> 0:06:19.400 gained popularity during the nineteenth century and contributed to the 0:06:19.480 --> 0:06:23.720 spread of racial stereotypes such as the happy, go lucky 0:06:24.120 --> 0:06:27.560 darkie on the plantation, that's another word we need to revisit, 0:06:28.760 --> 0:06:33.440 or the dandified coon. Keep that word here as well. 0:06:33.600 --> 0:06:37.200 By the middle of the century, blackface minstrel shows had 0:06:37.240 --> 0:06:42.039 become a distinctive African art sorry, a distinctive American art form, 0:06:42.560 --> 0:06:46.760 translating formal works such as opera into popular terms for 0:06:46.839 --> 0:06:52.719 a general audience. In the early twentieth century, blackface branched 0:06:52.760 --> 0:06:56.320 off from the minstrel show and became its own. It 0:06:56.320 --> 0:06:58.719 became a form in its own right. In the United States, 0:06:58.800 --> 0:07:02.599 blackface declined in popularity beginning in the nineteen forties and 0:07:02.640 --> 0:07:05.919 into the civil rights movements of the nineteen fifties and sixties, 0:07:06.279 --> 0:07:11.080 generally considered highly offensive, disrespectful, and racist by the turn 0:07:11.080 --> 0:07:14.360 of the twenty first century, though the practice or similar 0:07:14.440 --> 0:07:23.920 looking ones continues in other countries. All right, So why 0:07:23.960 --> 0:07:29.760 is this important. Well, I'll start and I'd love for 0:07:29.760 --> 0:07:36.800 you to jump in here. Q. My belief, my human 0:07:36.840 --> 0:07:40.120 belief before we even talk about things like race or 0:07:40.640 --> 0:07:43.320 you know, anything else. My human belief is that you 0:07:43.440 --> 0:07:46.000 teach people how to love you. That can be people 0:07:46.000 --> 0:07:48.240 in your family, that can be romantic partners, that can 0:07:48.240 --> 0:07:53.160 be your friends, whoever. You teach people how to love you. 0:07:53.960 --> 0:08:00.360 And what is love? Love is admiration, it's respect, It 0:08:00.440 --> 0:08:12.560 is any combination of adjectives that foster a jovial, happy, 0:08:12.880 --> 0:08:18.200 good natured relationship back and forth volley between two or 0:08:18.200 --> 0:08:20.880 more persons. You know, this is my definition I'm making 0:08:20.920 --> 0:08:22.560 up on the fly here, but I think it fits. 0:08:24.880 --> 0:08:27.200 And I think that we're all here today listening to 0:08:27.240 --> 0:08:32.040 this show because we believe in love. And you know, 0:08:32.120 --> 0:08:33.920 for those that don't, you know, I'm sure that you 0:08:33.920 --> 0:08:40.080 can appreciate my idea that we teach people how to 0:08:40.120 --> 0:08:43.160 love us. Right. You know, folks come, they might come 0:08:43.280 --> 0:08:48.960 with the right intentions, but you know, it's very easy 0:08:49.040 --> 0:08:52.400 for people to you know, overstep or say something out 0:08:52.400 --> 0:08:54.440 of line or whatever, you know, and it's our job 0:08:54.520 --> 0:08:57.719 if we recognize that they're not trying to upset us, 0:08:58.120 --> 0:08:59.960 to show them, Hey, I see what you're doing here. 0:09:00.200 --> 0:09:02.440 This doesn't work, but this might. Let's try that again 0:09:02.480 --> 0:09:08.160 in the future. The reason we're talking about blackface is 0:09:08.200 --> 0:09:16.000 because I can imagine a non black person wanting to 0:09:17.800 --> 0:09:23.559 dress up like Shaquille O'Neal right, putting on the jersey, 0:09:23.600 --> 0:09:28.079 the headband, the shoes, everything, looking in the mirror, and 0:09:28.160 --> 0:09:30.959 saying to himself. In this example, this is a man 0:09:31.000 --> 0:09:35.640 we're talking about, I look like a white guy wearing 0:09:35.679 --> 0:09:39.160 Shaquille O'Neill's jersey. I don't look like Shaquille O'Neil. What 0:09:39.240 --> 0:09:42.440 would really set this off? I love Shaq, Shaq is 0:09:42.480 --> 0:09:44.319 my guy. I want to look like him for Halloween. 0:09:45.440 --> 0:09:48.520 What would really make this pop? Well, if I just 0:09:48.559 --> 0:09:50.480 take a little bit of paint, put it on my arms, 0:09:51.120 --> 0:09:52.920 take a little bit of paint, put it on my skin, 0:09:54.000 --> 0:09:57.560 then that really helps sell that I'm trying to be 0:09:57.600 --> 0:10:04.160 Shaquille O'Neal right. Excuse me. So with that said, I 0:10:04.240 --> 0:10:08.800 recognize that a lot of times people that and I 0:10:08.800 --> 0:10:10.840 know you, I tend to be a little bit more generous, 0:10:10.840 --> 0:10:12.280 a little bit more forgiving when it comes to this 0:10:12.360 --> 0:10:15.240 sort of stuff. But I can see and I my 0:10:15.360 --> 0:10:18.520 assumption is that most people who kind of step out 0:10:18.559 --> 0:10:25.120 of bounds with respect to this do so at least 0:10:25.120 --> 0:10:27.079 in the examples of where I see where I can see, 0:10:27.160 --> 0:10:31.520 you know, the benefit of the doubt, you know, working 0:10:31.600 --> 0:10:33.959 in the favor of the person you know, committing the offense. 0:10:35.600 --> 0:10:37.880 And as you know, that's the way I work. I 0:10:38.200 --> 0:10:39.960 tend to get folks the benefit of the doubt. I 0:10:39.960 --> 0:10:42.280 don't assume that someone is trying to be out of 0:10:42.280 --> 0:10:47.000 line until I have something that confirms that. You know, 0:10:47.120 --> 0:10:49.720 my I move the way that I move, I move 0:10:49.760 --> 0:10:52.160 with love, I try to move with respect, and I 0:10:53.120 --> 0:10:56.080 all I have is the assumption that other people are 0:10:56.120 --> 0:10:58.160 moving in that way. I know that not everyone is, 0:10:58.200 --> 0:11:00.240 but I until I know that they're not moving with 0:11:00.280 --> 0:11:04.400 those intentions, I give them that same courtesy that I 0:11:04.400 --> 0:11:13.200 would hope to have. Right, So, when a person steps 0:11:13.240 --> 0:11:15.360 out of line, when they, you know, do something like this, 0:11:16.520 --> 0:11:20.520 I imagine that the question, you know, because obviously there's backlash 0:11:20.559 --> 0:11:22.120 all the time for folks that do well. Not all 0:11:22.160 --> 0:11:26.880 the time, but you know, especially folks on a folks 0:11:26.880 --> 0:11:29.000 on a public stage, or folks that have friends that 0:11:29.080 --> 0:11:31.240 really love them. They say, hey, yo, that's that's wrong. 0:11:31.280 --> 0:11:33.760 You don't want to do that. They might not get 0:11:33.800 --> 0:11:37.720 the why. So I think that when we peel back 0:11:37.800 --> 0:11:43.240 the layers of the history here, we can kind of 0:11:44.040 --> 0:11:45.400 you know, I say, I use this term a lot 0:11:45.440 --> 0:11:49.120 to breathe a little bit of life into this. Now 0:11:49.200 --> 0:11:53.839 I am familiar, a little bit more familiar with the 0:11:53.920 --> 0:11:58.080 history in this country of black people. I got it, honestly. 0:11:58.440 --> 0:11:58.600 You know. 0:11:58.640 --> 0:12:07.160 I grew up with educated parents who very much wanted 0:12:07.160 --> 0:12:10.720 me to be educated about the past and the present 0:12:11.640 --> 0:12:14.600 so that I would be empowered to walk the path 0:12:14.600 --> 0:12:17.040 that ultimately I would walk. I probably didn't know I'd 0:12:17.040 --> 0:12:20.240 be doing a show like this, but whatever their reasons, 0:12:20.320 --> 0:12:25.240 here I am so I can make the connections very easily. 0:12:26.040 --> 0:12:28.720 But never before I ever had a stage and the 0:12:28.760 --> 0:12:32.480 topic come up where it's like, well, listen, man, let's 0:12:32.600 --> 0:12:36.920 try to meet people where they are. We're not mad 0:12:37.040 --> 0:12:39.280 if you've ever dressed up and warn the wrong thing, 0:12:39.440 --> 0:12:42.040 or you know, tried your best to look like Alan 0:12:42.080 --> 0:12:48.760 Iverson or whatever. But again, there's a why here. So 0:12:48.840 --> 0:13:00.760 I'll begin these minstrel shows, these actors dressing up in blackface. 0:13:02.120 --> 0:13:04.520 Originally these were white folks, and then later they became 0:13:04.800 --> 0:13:08.120 black actors. This was the only work that black people 0:13:08.400 --> 0:13:11.880 could get is dressing up as caricatures of themselves. But 0:13:11.920 --> 0:13:14.320 we'll start with the white folks painting their skin black 0:13:15.360 --> 0:13:19.240 and painting the big lips and the and the big 0:13:19.280 --> 0:13:23.640 white eyes. It kind of looking like spooks. You know. 0:13:23.720 --> 0:13:26.360 This is we talked about darkies. This is the darky 0:13:26.480 --> 0:13:34.160 motif here. The characters in these shows were often based 0:13:34.280 --> 0:13:39.360 on stereotypes that were not true. Now, think of the 0:13:39.360 --> 0:13:41.520 time in this country. This is this is a funny story. 0:13:41.559 --> 0:13:49.760 Think of the time in this country. These white actors 0:13:49.800 --> 0:13:52.839 and and story. You know, the screen are not screenplays, 0:13:52.840 --> 0:13:57.000 but whatever the show writers what are those called screenwriters 0:13:57.080 --> 0:14:03.800 or authors of the shows? Whatever? Play rights, that's the word. 0:14:05.200 --> 0:14:11.120 They would often write shows about the past, as you do. Right. 0:14:11.280 --> 0:14:14.040 So their past, their immediate past, was a time when 0:14:14.040 --> 0:14:20.080 there was slavery, right, So they would have these slaves 0:14:20.920 --> 0:14:25.920 as extra lazy, right. They would have them, as you know, 0:14:26.200 --> 0:14:30.080 engaging oftentimes in sort of criminal behavior, not like like 0:14:30.200 --> 0:14:32.400 robbing banks or anything like that, but just kind of 0:14:32.520 --> 0:14:34.200 mischievous behavior. 0:14:34.320 --> 0:14:34.560 Right. 0:14:36.080 --> 0:14:40.440 And what it did you know, to to the to 0:14:40.480 --> 0:14:42.800 the to the black leaders of the time, the reason 0:14:42.800 --> 0:14:46.440 why that why in black circles. It was so offensive. 0:14:46.480 --> 0:14:50.160 What it did was it presented a view of black 0:14:50.200 --> 0:14:55.360 people to an audience that some of whom didn't really 0:14:55.440 --> 0:15:00.480 get to interact with black people. Right. And so if 0:15:00.600 --> 0:15:05.200 all you're seeing of black people is white people dressing 0:15:05.280 --> 0:15:08.360 up quote unquote as black people with a big lip 0:15:08.840 --> 0:15:12.600 paint on and the big white eyes painted on, and 0:15:12.760 --> 0:15:16.760 all they do is their comic relief. They're silly, they're uneducated, 0:15:16.800 --> 0:15:22.920 they speak you know, broken English, they have these weird accents. 0:15:23.520 --> 0:15:27.880 They are lazy, they're you know whatever, they're like the 0:15:28.080 --> 0:15:32.400 not antagonist, but they're dimitted, dim witted. That's a great one. 0:15:33.120 --> 0:15:35.280 So this is this is all you know of black people, 0:15:35.280 --> 0:15:37.200 and this is the this is the Internet of the day, 0:15:37.240 --> 0:15:40.680 this is the cinema of the day, This is how 0:15:41.120 --> 0:15:42.920 populations were influenced. 0:15:43.080 --> 0:15:43.280 Right. 0:15:43.920 --> 0:15:47.760 So you begin to see that black folks, especially black 0:15:47.840 --> 0:15:51.520 leadership at the time, really didn't appreciate the way black 0:15:51.560 --> 0:15:56.520 people were portrayed by white actors in these shows. Right. 0:15:57.600 --> 0:16:01.360 And I don't know if it was from pressure from 0:16:01.600 --> 0:16:04.440 you know, black leadership, or if it was just an 0:16:04.480 --> 0:16:09.920 evolution of the genre. Later on, black actors began dressing 0:16:10.000 --> 0:16:13.760 up in black face, so they'd be people just as 0:16:13.800 --> 0:16:18.760 black as me and you Q. And this was the 0:16:18.800 --> 0:16:21.120 only work that we could get as an actor. Only 0:16:21.160 --> 0:16:24.560 mainstream work is by dressing up and acting like a goofy, 0:16:24.600 --> 0:16:30.600 cartoonish version of ourselves. Right, And that's where you begin 0:16:30.720 --> 0:16:34.240 to see the beginnings of black folks really challenging and 0:16:34.240 --> 0:16:43.080 fighting in show business for black writers, for legitimacy in 0:16:43.200 --> 0:16:46.960 terms of depictions of black life and black people and 0:16:47.000 --> 0:16:53.920 black households and so forth. And this is why you know, 0:16:54.800 --> 0:16:58.040 shows like The Cosby Show when it did air, I'm 0:16:58.080 --> 0:17:00.160 not talking about Bill Cosby, but when the Case the 0:17:00.200 --> 0:17:03.560 show did air with such a breakthrough because you know, 0:17:03.720 --> 0:17:05.879 there was a lawyer and a doctor on the show. 0:17:06.520 --> 0:17:08.600 It wasn't good times wherever they were just having a 0:17:08.640 --> 0:17:10.679 good time and hanging out and chilling. These were like 0:17:10.920 --> 0:17:13.960 educators raising a family, you know, in a big city. 0:17:13.960 --> 0:17:18.080 You know, these things were hard fought battles, and it started, 0:17:18.359 --> 0:17:22.359 you know, on stages like this. And so back to blackface. 0:17:23.960 --> 0:17:33.879 You know the legacy of that is that you a 0:17:33.960 --> 0:17:38.359 person who does not live a black life, playing pretend, 0:17:40.640 --> 0:17:46.439 not only at best can you base whatever acting you 0:17:46.520 --> 0:17:49.000 do as an actor? You know we're not even talking 0:17:49.040 --> 0:17:51.680 about those folks who dress up as a Halloween costume. 0:17:51.720 --> 0:17:55.520 But whatever work you can do as an actor, at best, 0:17:55.760 --> 0:18:00.280 you are only going to be able to you whose 0:18:02.880 --> 0:18:06.400 stories you may have heard. At best, you're only going 0:18:06.440 --> 0:18:10.680 to be able to use inferences, examples, you know, things 0:18:10.720 --> 0:18:16.240 like that. But the actual feeling and the lasting impression 0:18:17.080 --> 0:18:24.520 of this performance are things that you'll never know, but 0:18:24.760 --> 0:18:28.000 all the black people that exist in the wake of 0:18:28.000 --> 0:18:32.720 this performance will know. Right. And so it's not only 0:18:33.040 --> 0:18:38.600 is it offensive, but it's it almost disregards the actual 0:18:38.640 --> 0:18:42.080 people who have to live in the wake of whatever 0:18:42.119 --> 0:18:46.000 it is that you do based on whatever prejudices or 0:18:46.920 --> 0:18:50.480 stories you may have read or whatever. Right, the disconnect 0:18:51.119 --> 0:18:56.879 is where black folks often find the problem. Later in 0:18:56.920 --> 0:18:59.800 the show, we're going to talk about some examples with 0:18:59.840 --> 0:19:04.320 that are indigenous brothers and sisters, right, So please stick 0:19:04.359 --> 0:19:07.800 around for that, But for now, just know that there's 0:19:07.880 --> 0:19:14.720 more connections that we can make there. Now, another thing 0:19:14.760 --> 0:19:16.159 that I want you to know is that if you 0:19:16.240 --> 0:19:18.439 go back and kind of research this stuff, you know, 0:19:18.800 --> 0:19:20.399 be my guest, please go back and look at the 0:19:20.400 --> 0:19:24.200 Wikipedia page for blackface or just google it, and when 0:19:24.240 --> 0:19:27.200 you see when all this stuff was happening, you'll see 0:19:27.240 --> 0:19:31.080 all of these very racist caricatures of the darkie and 0:19:31.119 --> 0:19:32.919 of the coon and so forth. And I think I 0:19:33.000 --> 0:19:34.840 shared on the show before that I have some of 0:19:34.880 --> 0:19:37.879 those posters in the backyard of my house. The people 0:19:37.880 --> 0:19:43.600 that own this house before, you know, put them up 0:19:43.640 --> 0:19:45.560 in the backyard and I didn't see them until a 0:19:45.560 --> 0:19:47.560 few years after living there because they're up under an 0:19:47.600 --> 0:19:50.040 awning or something like that. And it just goes to 0:19:50.119 --> 0:19:53.440 show that as recently as twenty ten when I bought 0:19:53.440 --> 0:19:57.320 my home that you know, people thought these things were okay, right, 0:19:57.440 --> 0:19:59.280 And I look at them. I haven't taken them down. 0:20:00.000 --> 0:20:01.359 I live here now, you know what I mean. But 0:20:01.400 --> 0:20:03.320 I look at them and it's sort of a reminder 0:20:03.359 --> 0:20:06.240 of the world that I live in. You know, again, 0:20:06.280 --> 0:20:11.479 I live in Arizona, very red state. But you know, 0:20:11.560 --> 0:20:14.480 these things were funny. They were meant to be funny. 0:20:14.480 --> 0:20:18.520 They're meant to be comical to a white audience, and 0:20:18.600 --> 0:20:23.080 black people really didn't think they were funny. We recognized, Okay, 0:20:23.119 --> 0:20:27.520 this is not who we are. But this is really 0:20:27.560 --> 0:20:30.440 the only form of entertainment, the dominant form of entertainment, 0:20:30.880 --> 0:20:32.399 and we have to live in a world in a 0:20:32.440 --> 0:20:36.520 wake of this. So these subtle influences, these subtle impressions 0:20:37.880 --> 0:20:40.280 over the population are going to affect our day to 0:20:40.359 --> 0:20:43.400 day lives. You know, we wonder why police pull guns out, 0:20:44.440 --> 0:20:47.680 you know, at the traffic stop if a person is 0:20:47.760 --> 0:20:51.320 black driving the car, especially a black male driving the car, 0:20:52.400 --> 0:20:55.440 versus any other type of person. You know, you can 0:20:55.480 --> 0:20:57.760 trace roots all the way back to this time. You 0:20:57.800 --> 0:20:59.760 can trace them even a little bit further. But you know, 0:20:59.760 --> 0:21:01.840 these are things that really have helped tell the story 0:21:02.440 --> 0:21:14.080 of why such ignorant ideas exist about black people, just 0:21:14.119 --> 0:21:16.840 because these folks were trying to entertain folks based off 0:21:16.880 --> 0:21:20.640 of prejudices and so forth, not really caring what would 0:21:20.720 --> 0:21:23.040 what they would leave in their way, you know, in 0:21:23.040 --> 0:21:29.600 their real life consequences of this. So far, what do 0:21:29.640 --> 0:21:30.480 you think about. 0:21:30.240 --> 0:21:36.760 This, Q Man? This there's so much to unpack, right. 0:21:37.200 --> 0:21:41.200 You think about the idea of categorizing ethnicity as skin 0:21:41.359 --> 0:21:44.720 color in the first place, and that's where our problem starts, 0:21:44.800 --> 0:21:52.399 right and that in Africa there's no ethnic category called 0:21:52.480 --> 0:21:58.720 black that as a Western you know, Colonizer Urn, Sure 0:21:59.040 --> 0:22:00.520 we can and we can send a lot of time 0:22:00.600 --> 0:22:06.240 on the history of that and the political and societal 0:22:06.520 --> 0:22:11.840 reasons why it's even black versus white when neither color 0:22:11.920 --> 0:22:15.760 is really accurate, and describing the actual skin color of 0:22:15.840 --> 0:22:18.920 either population of people that you're talking. 0:22:18.600 --> 0:22:22.800 About, not a pigment in your skin, that's literally it. 0:22:23.480 --> 0:22:28.040 Yeah, And when you start when you talk about our 0:22:28.520 --> 0:22:32.679 Aboriginal brothers and sisters being identified at some point as red, 0:22:33.760 --> 0:22:38.240 people of Asian Pacific Island descent being referred to as yellow, 0:22:39.520 --> 0:22:43.000 if you start to depict people based on those descriptions, 0:22:43.720 --> 0:22:47.920 it could get problematic really fast. And you spoke of 0:22:48.320 --> 0:22:53.680 Halloween costumes, for instance, making. 0:22:53.440 --> 0:22:57.080 That choice right, the white guy choosing Shack instead of 0:22:58.520 --> 0:23:02.240 you know, Larry Bird. You know, it's not like there's 0:23:02.280 --> 0:23:05.560 not a great player who would fit your skin tone. 0:23:05.600 --> 0:23:10.399 That could be you know, demonstratively less offensive in the 0:23:10.440 --> 0:23:13.280 spirit of it. If I decided to be a character 0:23:13.359 --> 0:23:17.480 from the popular movie Rush Hour, choosing Jackie Chan's character 0:23:17.520 --> 0:23:22.440 as opposed to Chris Tucker's could get problematic really fast, absolutely, 0:23:23.119 --> 0:23:25.200 because the only way is for me to make it 0:23:26.040 --> 0:23:29.200 readily identifiable that that was the character I chose would 0:23:29.200 --> 0:23:33.520 be to wear some type of wig, to do something 0:23:33.600 --> 0:23:36.960 exaggerated to the shape of my eyes, and if I 0:23:37.040 --> 0:23:41.879 went so far as to color my skin different, it 0:23:41.920 --> 0:23:50.439 would be obviously and instantly recognized as offensive, especially to 0:23:50.560 --> 0:23:52.440 the people that I know that are from that part 0:23:52.440 --> 0:23:56.760 of the world. And a Chinese roommate in college, you know, 0:23:56.800 --> 0:24:00.400 if he saw me in that cost of I think 0:24:00.440 --> 0:24:03.160 he'd be greatly disappointed in his former roommate. 0:24:03.640 --> 0:24:06.040 And I think that that says that says it all. 0:24:06.200 --> 0:24:08.600 You know, there's there's this you know, there's people that 0:24:08.640 --> 0:24:10.240 are like, you know, why can't I say the N word? 0:24:10.320 --> 0:24:10.640 Like I don't. 0:24:10.680 --> 0:24:12.600 I just don't get it. It's just a word. It's 0:24:12.640 --> 0:24:14.680 in all music, blah blah blah, and it's like, well, 0:24:14.720 --> 0:24:17.640 you know, it just offends. At the end of the day, 0:24:17.840 --> 0:24:20.440 you know, we we try to, you know, give things 0:24:20.480 --> 0:24:27.240 some context, really bring things to life conceptually, some concepts 0:24:27.280 --> 0:24:29.639 to life. That's what I mean to say. But you know, 0:24:29.640 --> 0:24:32.520 at the end of the day, if you recognize that 0:24:32.640 --> 0:24:36.320 even a small minority of a given community might be 0:24:36.440 --> 0:24:39.600 offended by something that you're doing. And again we'll peel 0:24:39.600 --> 0:24:41.760 away more layers when we get to you know, our 0:24:41.800 --> 0:24:45.679 culture vulture discussion. But it's just something that you just 0:24:45.720 --> 0:24:47.760 don't want to do you don't want to, We're not 0:24:47.920 --> 0:24:50.159 here to do that. There's so many options, and I 0:24:50.200 --> 0:24:53.520 think that that's an issue with America, among others, is 0:24:53.520 --> 0:24:56.640 that people feel so entitled to everything. Well why can't 0:24:56.680 --> 0:24:58.440 I do this? And then they fixate on the thing 0:24:58.480 --> 0:25:00.800 that they can't do. It's super wild. And I want 0:25:00.840 --> 0:25:03.600 to make one more note too. For minstrel shows, they 0:25:03.640 --> 0:25:07.920 always depicted black people as being lazy and they were slaves. 0:25:08.200 --> 0:25:11.200 So who's really lazy the people that kidnapped people to 0:25:11.240 --> 0:25:14.120 do the work for them or anyway, let's talk. 0:25:14.000 --> 0:25:17.160 About but before you before you move on though, that 0:25:17.240 --> 0:25:21.440 was intentional, sure, right, These people are not complaining because 0:25:21.480 --> 0:25:27.360 they're being overworked and and manipulated and exploited. They're complaining 0:25:27.400 --> 0:25:31.160 because they're lazy guys, Like let's you know, that's that's 0:25:31.160 --> 0:25:34.240 why they're not happy doing the work they we're asking 0:25:34.280 --> 0:25:37.800 them to do. Or they're as happy as possible, which 0:25:37.960 --> 0:25:41.680 you know you mentioned dandified earlier there that's another dress 0:25:41.760 --> 0:25:44.520