Speaker 1: The aftermath of the heist was chaos. Gangsters high tailed
Speaker 1: it out of town to avoid any more attention, while
Speaker 1: journalists scrambled to get details about the robbery. J D.
Speaker 1: Hudson began his investigation. He was concerned that the press
Speaker 1: and some of his fellow officers were penning the crime
Speaker 1: on the wrong man and chicken man was desperate to
Speaker 1: stay alive and do anything in his power to keep
Speaker 1: his family safe. These people are talking about killing all
Speaker 1: of us. I mean me, you and your mom. I
Speaker 1: can't let my family get killed because of it. That
Speaker 1: might be got rob Then I had all these people
Speaker 1: all again, Gluten FBI and one of who was the
Speaker 1: black Mirk. You have any idea who would have coolest
Speaker 1: stuff like this? I don't have no ideas at all.
Speaker 1: The reason they were mad because they were not anybody,
Speaker 1: and the man was prob. I think you had from
Speaker 1: my heart, radio and doghouse pictures. This is fight night.
Speaker 1: I'm Jeff Keating. When I spoke with j D during
Speaker 1: our interview in two thousand and two, he speculated that
Speaker 1: as the robbers were fleeing the party, Frank Moten had
Speaker 1: one of his bodyguards waiting in the car outside when
Speaker 1: Bookie Brown and Lillian Dabney exited in a rush. We
Speaker 1: think that bodyguard captured them and tortured them for information
Speaker 1: on the rest of their crew. To the hustlers, there
Speaker 1: was one guy out of New York, Okay, two guys
Speaker 1: and one by guy never went into the building the
Speaker 1: house of lad managers. Okay. That's a sad outside, okay.
Speaker 1: And that was the last guy that was robbed. The
Speaker 1: last gun followed, okay. And what I figured happened is
Speaker 1: that when they left, the robbers left these last two people,
Speaker 1: they grabbed him, got the damn money, what it was
Speaker 1: in the goddamn pilgate. They the damn shotgun from the
Speaker 1: motherfucker's and that damn bought up aromatic and one scheme
Speaker 1: mats and blue calammt okay, But who have a coat?
Speaker 1: Booky Brown took about a blues got damn head off
Speaker 1: the guys head on, and that was just the beginning
Speaker 1: of the killings. Immediately after the million dollar heist, chicken
Speaker 1: Man struggled with his state of mind. Here's Gordon Williams Jr.
Speaker 1: Recalling his father's mood the day after the robbery. My
Speaker 1: dad was really down He was really sad. He was
Speaker 1: blaming himself, but he didn't know what to do. My
Speaker 1: mother tried to comfort him, but you couldn't connect with him.
Speaker 1: He was really just out of it. We were scared.
Speaker 1: My mom was scared. I was scared, even being a teenager,
Speaker 1: I was scared to death. My dad had to tell us,
Speaker 1: you know, John might have to leave because these people
Speaker 1: were talking about killing all of us, I mean me,
Speaker 1: you and your mom, J D. Hudson, and Chicken Man.
Speaker 1: Remember that time. Well, I knew they were gonna kill it.
Speaker 1: I knew they were going to kill him, and I
Speaker 1: knew I would set up looking for that, and the
Speaker 1: police weren't going to be responsible, cause I think up
Speaker 1: on bless his name out of that police an FBI.
Speaker 1: My dad mentioned to me after the robbery and everything,
Speaker 1: there were things that he wasn't aware of. First of all,
Speaker 1: he told me he had no knowledge of what had
Speaker 1: happened on what was about to happen, but also that
Speaker 1: there were people there they had ordered hits on him.
Speaker 1: And I was like, so you were never scared, He said,
Speaker 1: I was scared, but they had ordered hits on him,
Speaker 1: and that's something I never heard until later on, when
Speaker 1: when we start hearing about stories about my dad being killed,
Speaker 1: it just blew us away because we couldn't believe it
Speaker 1: because we read the same stories about Chicken Man was dead.
Speaker 1: One of my mother's sister called and said, why didn't
Speaker 1: you call us and tell us that Gordon had been killed?
Speaker 1: And I remember my mother telling him my husband's not dead,
Speaker 1: So you sure, said, they're saying that it's in the
Speaker 1: papers he's dead. We couldn't even digest it because it
Speaker 1: was just it was so unreal. Gordon Junior's aunts called
Speaker 1: his mom and said, why didn't you tell us that
Speaker 1: Gordon is dead? His mom said, what are you talking about?
Speaker 1: He ain't dead, but his aunt said, yes, he is.
Speaker 1: I just read it in the paper. It seems she
Speaker 1: felt for the same misinformation that I did when it
Speaker 1: came to the death of Chicken Man. Meanwhile, Chicken Man
Speaker 1: made himself visible as possible, knowing this was the best
Speaker 1: strategy to clear his name. Most hustlers who pulled off
Speaker 1: such a stunt would be hiding and running from the
Speaker 1: police and the people they had robbed, but Chicken Man
Speaker 1: did the opposite. He did, however, make a call to
Speaker 1: his attorney Joe Salem. Joe Selden was real close to
Speaker 1: my dad. Joe sale was the one that when whenever
Speaker 1: my dad got in trouble, you know, Joe Selden would
Speaker 1: get him out him. And Joe Selden was very type.
Speaker 1: He was like family. Joe would come to the house
Speaker 1: and he talked to my dad, sit down and tell
Speaker 1: my dad. Listen, you're being investigated. You better slow down
Speaker 1: what you're doing. They got open case on you. So
Speaker 1: that's where my dad had to go to w s
Speaker 1: BTV because he wanted to declare his innocence because people
Speaker 1: were coming at us. Everybody was saying were serious. Everybody
Speaker 1: was saying he did it, he did it, we know
Speaker 1: he did it. And he told us, I'm going on
Speaker 1: TV to declare my innocence because I didn't do this.
Speaker 1: I don't want to do it, but I gotta do it.
Speaker 1: I want to just say my family in order to
Speaker 1: protect y'all, otherwise they're gonna kill us. This is the
Speaker 1: audio from the WSB TV interview the Chicken Men recorded
Speaker 1: a couple of days after the robbery in nineteen seventy
Speaker 1: and then the woman that it was because the woman
Speaker 1: to dressed the house. So I found after all this
Speaker 1: was over, that he push me that end of the door.
Speaker 1: She had a shotgun land on her head to tell
Speaker 1: her what to say and know what to do. Do
Speaker 1: you have any idea who would have pulled of stuff
Speaker 1: like this? I don't have no ideas at all. I
Speaker 1: wish y'all will wait to y'all get something before y'all.
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess you know that this is like
Speaker 1: this is uh deaf one for me for something that
Speaker 1: I don't even know anything about. I repeat that I
Speaker 1: knew nothing about it. I see nothing, and I wasn't
Speaker 1: any part that I played that anybody victimized at all,
Speaker 1: And in fact, I feel like I was more victimized
Speaker 1: than anybody that was there. But one thing for shell,
Speaker 1: not hunter than seven to one dollar that I lost.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't even know the man to see to get
Speaker 1: that back back. But clarify that I don't knew nothing
Speaker 1: and I didn't see nothing, so I would move in
Speaker 1: to this side of the Chicken man was scared and
Speaker 1: upset that the press implied he set up the robbery
Speaker 1: with little concern of the consequences these statements had on
Speaker 1: his life. He once told me that the press were
Speaker 1: the police, the judge and the jury. This seemed to
Speaker 1: be a perfect example of that idea was a goddamn
Speaker 1: national news. And national I said that too, a news
Speaker 1: if you report? Who called me from Rome into it?
Speaker 1: And next time I read in the paper with the
Speaker 1: black Market got robbed, Yeah, and I said black Michael
Speaker 1: got rob Then I had all these people called me,
Speaker 1: including FBI and other people want to know who was
Speaker 1: the black licher. Someone robbed the black mafia. A spectacular crime,
Speaker 1: and chicken Man found himself at the center of the
Speaker 1: media frenzy that followed. Newspaper headlines all over the world
Speaker 1: mentioned the Ali Corey fight, but story after story highlighted
Speaker 1: the million dollar robbery, and Gordon chicken Man Williams was
Speaker 1: the poster boy. Chicken Man did the only thing he
Speaker 1: knew would keep him and his family safe. He flew
Speaker 1: to New York to meet with Frank Molten and the
Speaker 1: Council of Twelve, right into the lions Den, and he
Speaker 1: had no idea if he would come out alive. Chicken
Speaker 1: Man had to prove his innocence at any cost, and
Speaker 1: it didn't help that the press and several police officers
Speaker 1: were convinced he was responsible for setting up the robbery.
Speaker 1: Here I am with him in two thousand and three
Speaker 1: getting his side of the story, or during those first
Speaker 1: few days. It's unusual because a lot of people might
Speaker 1: think you may want to go in hiding if you
Speaker 1: said you kept yourself very visible to talk about your
Speaker 1: feelings and your movements, let's say. And then a few
Speaker 1: nights after the robbery, well, I knew that I had
Speaker 1: nothing to do with it. That's the only thing that
Speaker 1: really free my spirit. Na was I suddond to be
Speaker 1: murdered killed? Yeah? Why because the newspaper portrayed that way,
Speaker 1: having tooker Man house and Chicken Man Gay the party.
Speaker 1: I didn't give the party. My instruction from from people
Speaker 1: who did or used the house, not for me not
Speaker 1: to tell nobody that I didn't invite nobody. I went
Speaker 1: to New York and I was telling the guy that
Speaker 1: was major players and what the party was gonna be,
Speaker 1: because this really was the black gaming. And then this
Speaker 1: showing me had me clear and every time my name
Speaker 1: come up, they was thumbing down. I found that rewarding
Speaker 1: for me to be able to hear that from my
Speaker 1: comrade that's why I mean myself clear, I mean invisible,
Speaker 1: so it wouldn't be misunderstood because the people thought I
Speaker 1: had something to do it. Chicken Man flew to New
Speaker 1: York to face the major players, including Frank Molten. Remember Frank,
Speaker 1: known as the Black Godfather, was a member of the
Speaker 1: Council of Twelve. Frank did business with other high level
Speaker 1: criminals like Nicky Barnes and Frank Lucas. And I always
Speaker 1: wondered how many other big time players were at the
Speaker 1: after party when it got robbed. But Frank Molten was
Speaker 1: an ally the Chicken Man, and he vouched for him.
Speaker 1: And Fay told me, so this is going, then nobody
Speaker 1: think you've done that. He said, God, there's no way
Speaker 1: than people that Jeric is surface and we don't know it.
Speaker 1: That's a lot of money. Fact told me, So this
Speaker 1: is going. One thing we know is that too many
Speaker 1: people know about it, so it won't be low and
Speaker 1: if they can't go to the Jews though they came
Speaker 1: upon it, So we're gonna put the people on notice.
Speaker 1: But we had to cap by the tail um. But
Speaker 1: one thing I did know, some of the biggest racketeers
Speaker 1: in the country were there if not the biggest. I
Speaker 1: sweared it out as any big time racketeer who was
Speaker 1: not in at Manta, and most of whom came to
Speaker 1: that party. And that's why Coon the graves I said
Speaker 1: that these guys are crazy. They're gonna get killed because
Speaker 1: they've robbed a black marka know. J D seems to
Speaker 1: take credit for coining the phrase black mafia, but we're
Speaker 1: not exactly sure when this term was first used. The
Speaker 1: title was associated in the late sixties and early seventies
Speaker 1: to a criminal organization in Philadelphia whose activities ranged from extortion, gambling, prostitution,
Speaker 1: and ultimately political murders, but the members of the black
Speaker 1: Mafia he is referring to were from several other cities
Speaker 1: like Detroit, Kansas City, and New York. J D believed
Speaker 1: that one of Frank Morton's bodyguards caught Bookie Brown and
Speaker 1: a lady named Lillian Dabney as they fled the robbery.
Speaker 1: Soon after, the police found their dead bodies at Proctor Creek,
Speaker 1: just miles away from Handy Drive. Around this time, j
Speaker 1: D and his team found their first piece of evidence.
Speaker 1: That's truth. It is got bed behind some bushes the
Speaker 1: hedges on the right hand side of the house. There
Speaker 1: was a bay back happletes bay Okay, a duffle bag
Speaker 1: in a way, a hand water and uh that was
Speaker 1: a forty five revolver, a start off shotgun, A couple
Speaker 1: of masks are walking talking, and two large pillowcases. The
Speaker 1: witness told me that that they said a woman was involved.
Speaker 1: Right he was clicking on the floor right that they
Speaker 1: would rot the man splitting jewelry, tacking juror from the
Speaker 1: women and putting them. Now you've got the duffle bags
Speaker 1: with forty five was shot up shotgun with pillowcases with
Speaker 1: some masks. So now you've got the beginning of the case.
Speaker 1: We checked the time shop on which the gone was
Speaker 1: like his own age Wood Avenue across from the Minnesota market.
Speaker 1: About the gun that was found in the duffel bad
Speaker 1: got you and land it was like this back Houston
Speaker 1: Hammond use his own drifts to flex his damn. Okay,
Speaker 1: so we got this. But once j D. Knew that
Speaker 1: Houston Haymans used his idea to buy the shotgun from
Speaker 1: a pawn shop, he and his partner Joe Amos, decided
Speaker 1: to stake out a part of town that Houston Haymons
Speaker 1: was known to frequent with a bit of luck. They
Speaker 1: spotted him while they were eating lunch. Here's j D
Speaker 1: filling me in on the details. So we got in start.
Speaker 1: I gat an office and he would get a stampaign.
Speaker 1: Since he wouldn't tell us who's involved. I called the
Speaker 1: press his conference. Can drug about to sail the stugment
Speaker 1: round the cameras, I said, you tell me who with you.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna make an announcement that you totally everybody. How
Speaker 1: mun tell the guys that you was about the robbery.
Speaker 1: Here I am with j D at his house in
Speaker 1: two thousand and three when I questioned his account versus
Speaker 1: what was reported in the newspaper. Now, let me just
Speaker 1: stop you for one second, because in one of the
Speaker 1: articles he said he was tricked into buying that gun,
Speaker 1: tricked he's a drug, and he's a drug. He got it.
Speaker 1: And so I totally got my front and lots conference
Speaker 1: and kind of who you are. Let the boys know
Speaker 1: you want the robber and how my time you loose unbelievable.
Speaker 1: That's going to scare him even more. And so that's
Speaker 1: through about markets and you didn't do that because I've
Speaker 1: got the article where it mentions his name. Well, I
Speaker 1: threw in my office. But he's big, He's beat on
Speaker 1: the door. It big and cry, he cried, Yeah, he
Speaker 1: would have been killed. Right. So j threatened to go
Speaker 1: on the news and tell the world that Houston Hammonds
Speaker 1: was responsible for the robbery, hoping this would scare him
Speaker 1: into a confession. Okay, when you told him what you
Speaker 1: were gonna do, did he reconsider and say I'm willing
Speaker 1: to talk? He told everything is in his mind and
Speaker 1: his words. What did he say? Happy? Well, he told
Speaker 1: me where they bought the walking talking Okay, where did
Speaker 1: they buy those? In radio shape one street? What hope?
Speaker 1: Did he say? They bought the masks from a five
Speaker 1: intensor stone upon a Butler Street, and ed, okay, but
Speaker 1: the shotguns old that, uh cont on Leash Street right
Speaker 1: about seven thus, and they both the songs from a
Speaker 1: Potwest so at least a year, right they thought? The
Speaker 1: uns often failed? And I had this Halloween mask. Here's
Speaker 1: j D explaining to Chicken Man why the robbers had
Speaker 1: to wear masks. Just what I had the mask on,
Speaker 1: because that y'all would have known him. I said one
Speaker 1: question to have a mask on, and I think that
Speaker 1: was that boy from Newcastle, New York who just got
Speaker 1: back to the guy came to Atlanta, he grew up
Speaker 1: in uh one arriving to Georgia. And he was the
Speaker 1: brother now the first cousin they were. There were three
Speaker 1: relatives involved. We knew. It was shocking as a matter
Speaker 1: of fact, at the caliber of guys who pulled off
Speaker 1: the robbery. The guys those how cold they were, and
Speaker 1: they were cold as ice, threatening to kill everybody. Houston, Hayman's,
Speaker 1: claimed to j D and Joe Amos during their interrogation
Speaker 1: that he was paid to purchase the shotgun by James
Speaker 1: Henry Hall. Now they had another name to investigate. Even
Speaker 1: more incredible was a piece of paper they found in
Speaker 1: Houston's pocket. It had a telephone number and extension on
Speaker 1: it that led the two detectives to a hotel suite.
Speaker 1: No one was in that hotel suite, but luckily j
Speaker 1: D and Amos stumbled into a group of robbery victims
Speaker 1: before they had a chance to leave town. J D
Speaker 1: convinced them he was not interested in who they were
Speaker 1: or what they did, but only in who robbed them. Reluctantly,
Speaker 1: they agreed to talk the main piece of information he
Speaker 1: received was that the four of them calculated their losses
Speaker 1: at a total of seventy eight thousand dollars. I did
Speaker 1: the math if there were approximately a hundred people at
Speaker 1: the after party, that puts the total Hall at just
Speaker 1: under four million dollars, staggering numbers. J D and Amos
Speaker 1: were unable to find James Henry Hall at first, but
Speaker 1: they were able to trace purchases He made it a
Speaker 1: pawn shop on Marietta Street, a thirty gage shotgun, a knife, hacks,
Speaker 1: all hacks, all blades, and some sandpaper. Two new names
Speaker 1: were added to their list as well, Charles Lee and
Speaker 1: Baby Ray Humphreys. Here's j D back in two thousand
Speaker 1: and two talking about this young crew. This is getting
Speaker 1: good now taking me back to that night. These men
Speaker 1: are in both to the robbery. How did they find
Speaker 1: out that the party was going on? Well? Hung around
Speaker 1: the rule. But these are not big time high Rule. No,
Speaker 1: these guys are lucre Mark. How old approximately or these
Speaker 1: guys twented setting? But none of them probably in their
Speaker 1: late thirties or forties. The one guy affects I think,
Speaker 1: and what was his name? His name was daughter Nobody
Speaker 1: connect him to mean that the name j D just
Speaker 1: mentioned was Emerson Dorsey. His conclusion was that Dorsey was
Speaker 1: the mastermind of the heist. From our research, we believe
Speaker 1: it was another hustler from New York we discussed earlier,
Speaker 1: named Richard Wheeler a k a. Cadillac Ritchie. But here's
Speaker 1: j D explaining his speculation. Emerson, Emerson Dorsey. The hustlers
Speaker 1: connected him than me. So why was this guy Dorsey
Speaker 1: never connected? We could not know. And just because of
Speaker 1: evidence or lock there or because he was not bad Okay,
Speaker 1: but he was at the site. Sous told me that
Speaker 1: every part of Emerson also went. There's the thing. As
Speaker 1: a down woman, I'd be to call it what a
Speaker 1: down will man woman? Okay, as his main woman right
Speaker 1: when he went, she was with him night. She was
Speaker 1: not a defight, which was unusual to the mamas and
Speaker 1: dust the New York for twenty five thirty years. What
Speaker 1: was his profession was he was a hotsplorer with the
Speaker 1: big time, big time Okay, And the word I got
Speaker 1: was the Chisholm was instrument and running him out of
Speaker 1: New York. Sen Chishom Congresswoman Shirley Chisholm was an American politician, educator,
Speaker 1: and author. In nineteen sixty eight, she became the first
Speaker 1: black woman elected to the United States Congress, representing New
Speaker 1: York's twelfth Congressional District for seven terms from nineteen sixty
Speaker 1: nine to three. In the nineteen seventy two United States
Speaker 1: presidential election, she became the first black candidate for a
Speaker 1: major party's nomination for the president of the United States
Speaker 1: and the first woman to run for the Democratic Party's
Speaker 1: presidential nomination. She must not have liked Emerson Dorsey at
Speaker 1: all or any of his criminal activities, because, according to
Speaker 1: j D, she was integral in running him out of
Speaker 1: New York. Here's j D telling me what happened to
Speaker 1: this big time hustler. Is Emerson Dorsey still alive or not? Okay?
Speaker 1: So we got this down woman that isn't at the fight.
Speaker 1: Within the night of the party, and the hustle's noticed that.
Speaker 1: They say Amazon Dialon wasn't with him. That was something
Speaker 1: wrong with that. Amazon had cooled a summer robbery in
Speaker 1: New York though, And they all suspected me, is she
Speaker 1: at the party? I don't know. We know what her
Speaker 1: name is or a nickname or a real name. I've
Speaker 1: never got her name, but this tips off the hustlers
Speaker 1: in retrospecting, I got you and what we're thinking in
Speaker 1: retrospect this is just all something we're trying to put together.
Speaker 1: Is that McKinley, James Houston, Charles and maybe a couple
Speaker 1: of other people were working for Emerson Worth reckon friend
Speaker 1: may not be the right Okay, let me phrase to frighten. Okay,
Speaker 1: I think that Emma friends may have gotten in together
Speaker 1: and organized the robbery, directed the roper set it up,
Speaker 1: but it could have been more of a revenge plain
Speaker 1: but getting right out of who yea, but who would
Speaker 1: he be getting revenge on the New York hustlers? The
Speaker 1: body or got you? Okay? I was that rob Okay?
Speaker 1: So he was run out of New York by not
Speaker 1: just one husberd by a bunch of hustlers. Well, I
Speaker 1: think he had leaving New Yorker back and just leaving
Speaker 1: Troye or leaving New Yorker rodegea. He moved in Latta.
Speaker 1: His family lived in a natter so he was here.
Speaker 1: He came in and decided he's going to take over
Speaker 1: the lotary. In the last one of the prime hangouts
Speaker 1: for two or three of the big hustlers was a
Speaker 1: fool room and on the street made from Miss Turner,
Speaker 1: and he had started hanging out there and recruiting to
Speaker 1: young guys to wait for him. He's also drug man.
Speaker 1: Hearing JD thought that Emerson Dorsey had organized some local
Speaker 1: pool hustlers for the robbery, but he had no evidence
Speaker 1: to prove it, and just as the investigation seemed like
Speaker 1: it would fizzle out, he and Joe Amos caught a break.
Speaker 1: Using some information obtain from the streets. They got the
Speaker 1: address of James Henry Hall, and now they knew where
Speaker 1: the stash house was and where the robbers we're hiding out.
Speaker 1: Fight Night is a joint production from I Heart Radio,
Speaker 1: Will Packer Media and dog House Pictures in association with
Speaker 1: Psychopia Pictures. Produced and hosted by Jeff Keating. Executive producers
Speaker 1: are Will Packer, James Lopez, Kenny Burns, Dan Bush, Lars Jacobsen,
Speaker 1: and Noel Brown. Supervising producer is Taylor Shicoyne. Story editors
Speaker 1: are Noel Brown and Dan Bush. Written by Jeff Keating
Speaker 1: and Jim Roberts, edited by Matt Owen, Mixing and sound
Speaker 1: designed by Jeremiah Kolanni Prescott. Music written and performed by
Speaker 1: the Diamond Street Players. Additional music by Ben Lovett. Audio
Speaker 1: archives courtesy of WSB News Film and Video Tape Collection,
Speaker 1: Brown Media Archives, University of Georgia Libraries. Special thanks to
Speaker 1: Dr Maurice Hobson and David Davis. Fight Night is a
Speaker 1: production of I heart Radio. For more podcasts from my
Speaker 1: heart Radio, check out the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts.