1 00:00:00,920 --> 00:00:05,640 Speaker 1: The aftermath of the heist was chaos. Gangsters high tailed 2 00:00:05,680 --> 00:00:08,920 Speaker 1: it out of town to avoid any more attention, while 3 00:00:09,039 --> 00:00:13,159 Speaker 1: journalists scrambled to get details about the robbery. J D. 4 00:00:13,320 --> 00:00:18,599 Speaker 1: Hudson began his investigation. He was concerned that the press 5 00:00:18,920 --> 00:00:22,200 Speaker 1: and some of his fellow officers were penning the crime 6 00:00:22,239 --> 00:00:26,520 Speaker 1: on the wrong man and chicken man was desperate to 7 00:00:26,520 --> 00:00:30,840 Speaker 1: stay alive and do anything in his power to keep 8 00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:35,800 Speaker 1: his family safe. These people are talking about killing all 9 00:00:35,800 --> 00:00:38,559 Speaker 1: of us. I mean me, you and your mom. I 10 00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:42,199 Speaker 1: can't let my family get killed because of it. That 11 00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:44,160 Speaker 1: might be got rob Then I had all these people 12 00:00:44,200 --> 00:00:46,839 Speaker 1: all again, Gluten FBI and one of who was the 13 00:00:46,880 --> 00:00:50,080 Speaker 1: black Mirk. You have any idea who would have coolest 14 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:53,239 Speaker 1: stuff like this? I don't have no ideas at all. 15 00:00:54,080 --> 00:00:56,600 Speaker 1: The reason they were mad because they were not anybody, 16 00:00:57,200 --> 00:01:04,560 Speaker 1: and the man was prob. I think you had from 17 00:01:04,600 --> 00:01:07,800 Speaker 1: my heart, radio and doghouse pictures. This is fight night. 18 00:01:08,560 --> 00:01:18,480 Speaker 1: I'm Jeff Keating. When I spoke with j D during 19 00:01:18,480 --> 00:01:22,160 Speaker 1: our interview in two thousand and two, he speculated that 20 00:01:22,280 --> 00:01:26,000 Speaker 1: as the robbers were fleeing the party, Frank Moten had 21 00:01:26,040 --> 00:01:29,640 Speaker 1: one of his bodyguards waiting in the car outside when 22 00:01:29,680 --> 00:01:34,240 Speaker 1: Bookie Brown and Lillian Dabney exited in a rush. We 23 00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:39,760 Speaker 1: think that bodyguard captured them and tortured them for information 24 00:01:40,160 --> 00:01:44,520 Speaker 1: on the rest of their crew. To the hustlers, there 25 00:01:44,600 --> 00:01:49,640 Speaker 1: was one guy out of New York, Okay, two guys 26 00:01:51,240 --> 00:01:55,800 Speaker 1: and one by guy never went into the building the 27 00:01:55,840 --> 00:02:00,120 Speaker 1: house of lad managers. Okay. That's a sad outside, okay. 28 00:02:00,680 --> 00:02:03,800 Speaker 1: And that was the last guy that was robbed. The 29 00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:20,040 Speaker 1: last gun followed, okay. And what I figured happened is 30 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:23,720 Speaker 1: that when they left, the robbers left these last two people, 31 00:02:24,240 --> 00:02:27,480 Speaker 1: they grabbed him, got the damn money, what it was 32 00:02:27,520 --> 00:02:30,840 Speaker 1: in the goddamn pilgate. They the damn shotgun from the 33 00:02:30,919 --> 00:02:33,960 Speaker 1: motherfucker's and that damn bought up aromatic and one scheme 34 00:02:34,040 --> 00:02:38,000 Speaker 1: mats and blue calammt okay, But who have a coat? 35 00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:40,560 Speaker 1: Booky Brown took about a blues got damn head off 36 00:02:40,600 --> 00:02:46,480 Speaker 1: the guys head on, and that was just the beginning 37 00:02:46,520 --> 00:02:52,359 Speaker 1: of the killings. Immediately after the million dollar heist, chicken 38 00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:56,680 Speaker 1: Man struggled with his state of mind. Here's Gordon Williams Jr. 39 00:02:57,200 --> 00:03:01,680 Speaker 1: Recalling his father's mood the day after the robbery. My 40 00:03:01,760 --> 00:03:04,600 Speaker 1: dad was really down He was really sad. He was 41 00:03:04,639 --> 00:03:09,280 Speaker 1: blaming himself, but he didn't know what to do. My 42 00:03:09,320 --> 00:03:12,680 Speaker 1: mother tried to comfort him, but you couldn't connect with him. 43 00:03:12,800 --> 00:03:16,200 Speaker 1: He was really just out of it. We were scared. 44 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:19,560 Speaker 1: My mom was scared. I was scared, even being a teenager, 45 00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:22,080 Speaker 1: I was scared to death. My dad had to tell us, 46 00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:26,000 Speaker 1: you know, John might have to leave because these people 47 00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:28,120 Speaker 1: were talking about killing all of us, I mean me, 48 00:03:28,320 --> 00:03:32,760 Speaker 1: you and your mom, J D. Hudson, and Chicken Man. 49 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:36,080 Speaker 1: Remember that time. Well, I knew they were gonna kill it. 50 00:03:38,280 --> 00:03:42,200 Speaker 1: I knew they were going to kill him, and I 51 00:03:42,280 --> 00:03:45,720 Speaker 1: knew I would set up looking for that, and the 52 00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:47,920 Speaker 1: police weren't going to be responsible, cause I think up 53 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:50,960 Speaker 1: on bless his name out of that police an FBI. 54 00:03:51,920 --> 00:03:54,880 Speaker 1: My dad mentioned to me after the robbery and everything, 55 00:03:55,120 --> 00:03:58,240 Speaker 1: there were things that he wasn't aware of. First of all, 56 00:03:58,240 --> 00:04:00,560 Speaker 1: he told me he had no knowledge of what had 57 00:04:00,600 --> 00:04:04,000 Speaker 1: happened on what was about to happen, but also that 58 00:04:04,280 --> 00:04:07,960 Speaker 1: there were people there they had ordered hits on him. 59 00:04:08,040 --> 00:04:10,720 Speaker 1: And I was like, so you were never scared, He said, 60 00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:13,960 Speaker 1: I was scared, but they had ordered hits on him, 61 00:04:14,160 --> 00:04:18,560 Speaker 1: and that's something I never heard until later on, when 62 00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:21,279 Speaker 1: when we start hearing about stories about my dad being killed, 63 00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:23,560 Speaker 1: it just blew us away because we couldn't believe it 64 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:26,280 Speaker 1: because we read the same stories about Chicken Man was dead. 65 00:04:26,600 --> 00:04:31,000 Speaker 1: One of my mother's sister called and said, why didn't 66 00:04:31,040 --> 00:04:32,960 Speaker 1: you call us and tell us that Gordon had been killed? 67 00:04:34,120 --> 00:04:37,840 Speaker 1: And I remember my mother telling him my husband's not dead, 68 00:04:38,839 --> 00:04:41,440 Speaker 1: So you sure, said, they're saying that it's in the 69 00:04:41,440 --> 00:04:46,279 Speaker 1: papers he's dead. We couldn't even digest it because it 70 00:04:46,360 --> 00:04:51,039 Speaker 1: was just it was so unreal. Gordon Junior's aunts called 71 00:04:51,080 --> 00:04:53,599 Speaker 1: his mom and said, why didn't you tell us that 72 00:04:53,640 --> 00:04:57,400 Speaker 1: Gordon is dead? His mom said, what are you talking about? 73 00:04:57,680 --> 00:05:01,120 Speaker 1: He ain't dead, but his aunt said, yes, he is. 74 00:05:01,560 --> 00:05:04,560 Speaker 1: I just read it in the paper. It seems she 75 00:05:04,680 --> 00:05:07,719 Speaker 1: felt for the same misinformation that I did when it 76 00:05:07,760 --> 00:05:12,200 Speaker 1: came to the death of Chicken Man. Meanwhile, Chicken Man 77 00:05:12,279 --> 00:05:15,760 Speaker 1: made himself visible as possible, knowing this was the best 78 00:05:15,760 --> 00:05:19,600 Speaker 1: strategy to clear his name. Most hustlers who pulled off 79 00:05:19,640 --> 00:05:22,000 Speaker 1: such a stunt would be hiding and running from the 80 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:25,600 Speaker 1: police and the people they had robbed, but Chicken Man 81 00:05:25,640 --> 00:05:28,840 Speaker 1: did the opposite. He did, however, make a call to 82 00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:34,240 Speaker 1: his attorney Joe Salem. Joe Selden was real close to 83 00:05:34,360 --> 00:05:37,800 Speaker 1: my dad. Joe sale was the one that when whenever 84 00:05:37,839 --> 00:05:40,200 Speaker 1: my dad got in trouble, you know, Joe Selden would 85 00:05:40,200 --> 00:05:42,599 Speaker 1: get him out him. And Joe Selden was very type. 86 00:05:42,920 --> 00:05:44,640 Speaker 1: He was like family. Joe would come to the house 87 00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:46,360 Speaker 1: and he talked to my dad, sit down and tell 88 00:05:46,400 --> 00:05:49,400 Speaker 1: my dad. Listen, you're being investigated. You better slow down 89 00:05:49,440 --> 00:05:52,560 Speaker 1: what you're doing. They got open case on you. So 90 00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:54,839 Speaker 1: that's where my dad had to go to w s 91 00:05:54,880 --> 00:05:58,960 Speaker 1: BTV because he wanted to declare his innocence because people 92 00:05:58,960 --> 00:06:02,159 Speaker 1: were coming at us. Everybody was saying were serious. Everybody 93 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:04,479 Speaker 1: was saying he did it, he did it, we know 94 00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:06,880 Speaker 1: he did it. And he told us, I'm going on 95 00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:09,680 Speaker 1: TV to declare my innocence because I didn't do this. 96 00:06:10,839 --> 00:06:12,920 Speaker 1: I don't want to do it, but I gotta do it. 97 00:06:13,040 --> 00:06:15,040 Speaker 1: I want to just say my family in order to 98 00:06:15,080 --> 00:06:20,480 Speaker 1: protect y'all, otherwise they're gonna kill us. This is the 99 00:06:20,520 --> 00:06:25,040 Speaker 1: audio from the WSB TV interview the Chicken Men recorded 100 00:06:25,080 --> 00:06:28,479 Speaker 1: a couple of days after the robbery in nineteen seventy 101 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:32,919 Speaker 1: and then the woman that it was because the woman 102 00:06:32,960 --> 00:06:35,440 Speaker 1: to dressed the house. So I found after all this 103 00:06:35,680 --> 00:06:38,320 Speaker 1: was over, that he push me that end of the door. 104 00:06:38,800 --> 00:06:41,680 Speaker 1: She had a shotgun land on her head to tell 105 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:44,159 Speaker 1: her what to say and know what to do. Do 106 00:06:44,200 --> 00:06:46,159 Speaker 1: you have any idea who would have pulled of stuff 107 00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:50,960 Speaker 1: like this? I don't have no ideas at all. I 108 00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:53,200 Speaker 1: wish y'all will wait to y'all get something before y'all. 109 00:06:54,200 --> 00:06:56,160 Speaker 1: I mean, I guess you know that this is like 110 00:06:56,360 --> 00:06:59,320 Speaker 1: this is uh deaf one for me for something that 111 00:06:59,360 --> 00:07:03,359 Speaker 1: I don't even know anything about. I repeat that I 112 00:07:03,440 --> 00:07:08,200 Speaker 1: knew nothing about it. I see nothing, and I wasn't 113 00:07:08,240 --> 00:07:12,480 Speaker 1: any part that I played that anybody victimized at all, 114 00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:15,160 Speaker 1: And in fact, I feel like I was more victimized 115 00:07:15,200 --> 00:07:18,200 Speaker 1: than anybody that was there. But one thing for shell, 116 00:07:18,680 --> 00:07:21,040 Speaker 1: not hunter than seven to one dollar that I lost. 117 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:24,080 Speaker 1: I wouldn't even know the man to see to get 118 00:07:24,120 --> 00:07:28,560 Speaker 1: that back back. But clarify that I don't knew nothing 119 00:07:28,840 --> 00:07:31,920 Speaker 1: and I didn't see nothing, so I would move in 120 00:07:32,040 --> 00:07:35,120 Speaker 1: to this side of the Chicken man was scared and 121 00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:38,560 Speaker 1: upset that the press implied he set up the robbery 122 00:07:39,080 --> 00:07:42,320 Speaker 1: with little concern of the consequences these statements had on 123 00:07:42,440 --> 00:07:45,760 Speaker 1: his life. He once told me that the press were 124 00:07:45,760 --> 00:07:50,240 Speaker 1: the police, the judge and the jury. This seemed to 125 00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:55,000 Speaker 1: be a perfect example of that idea was a goddamn 126 00:07:55,160 --> 00:07:59,880 Speaker 1: national news. And national I said that too, a news 127 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:02,280 Speaker 1: if you report? Who called me from Rome into it? 128 00:08:03,440 --> 00:08:05,040 Speaker 1: And next time I read in the paper with the 129 00:08:05,200 --> 00:08:08,600 Speaker 1: black Market got robbed, Yeah, and I said black Michael 130 00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:10,760 Speaker 1: got rob Then I had all these people called me, 131 00:08:10,800 --> 00:08:13,920 Speaker 1: including FBI and other people want to know who was 132 00:08:13,960 --> 00:08:20,360 Speaker 1: the black licher. Someone robbed the black mafia. A spectacular crime, 133 00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:23,680 Speaker 1: and chicken Man found himself at the center of the 134 00:08:23,760 --> 00:08:28,560 Speaker 1: media frenzy that followed. Newspaper headlines all over the world 135 00:08:28,920 --> 00:08:33,320 Speaker 1: mentioned the Ali Corey fight, but story after story highlighted 136 00:08:33,360 --> 00:08:37,800 Speaker 1: the million dollar robbery, and Gordon chicken Man Williams was 137 00:08:37,840 --> 00:08:42,040 Speaker 1: the poster boy. Chicken Man did the only thing he 138 00:08:42,120 --> 00:08:46,040 Speaker 1: knew would keep him and his family safe. He flew 139 00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:48,800 Speaker 1: to New York to meet with Frank Molten and the 140 00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:53,080 Speaker 1: Council of Twelve, right into the lions Den, and he 141 00:08:53,160 --> 00:09:03,960 Speaker 1: had no idea if he would come out alive. Chicken 142 00:09:03,960 --> 00:09:07,600 Speaker 1: Man had to prove his innocence at any cost, and 143 00:09:07,640 --> 00:09:11,599 Speaker 1: it didn't help that the press and several police officers 144 00:09:11,920 --> 00:09:15,520 Speaker 1: were convinced he was responsible for setting up the robbery. 145 00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:18,560 Speaker 1: Here I am with him in two thousand and three 146 00:09:19,280 --> 00:09:24,160 Speaker 1: getting his side of the story, or during those first 147 00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:27,120 Speaker 1: few days. It's unusual because a lot of people might 148 00:09:27,120 --> 00:09:28,719 Speaker 1: think you may want to go in hiding if you 149 00:09:28,760 --> 00:09:31,400 Speaker 1: said you kept yourself very visible to talk about your 150 00:09:32,080 --> 00:09:35,240 Speaker 1: feelings and your movements, let's say. And then a few 151 00:09:35,320 --> 00:09:40,560 Speaker 1: nights after the robbery, well, I knew that I had 152 00:09:40,600 --> 00:09:43,120 Speaker 1: nothing to do with it. That's the only thing that 153 00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:49,240 Speaker 1: really free my spirit. Na was I suddond to be 154 00:09:49,720 --> 00:09:55,679 Speaker 1: murdered killed? Yeah? Why because the newspaper portrayed that way, 155 00:09:56,360 --> 00:09:59,920 Speaker 1: having tooker Man house and Chicken Man Gay the party. 156 00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:03,600 Speaker 1: I didn't give the party. My instruction from from people 157 00:10:03,600 --> 00:10:07,520 Speaker 1: who did or used the house, not for me not 158 00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:10,640 Speaker 1: to tell nobody that I didn't invite nobody. I went 159 00:10:10,640 --> 00:10:13,800 Speaker 1: to New York and I was telling the guy that 160 00:10:14,040 --> 00:10:16,960 Speaker 1: was major players and what the party was gonna be, 161 00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:20,400 Speaker 1: because this really was the black gaming. And then this 162 00:10:20,559 --> 00:10:24,880 Speaker 1: showing me had me clear and every time my name 163 00:10:25,040 --> 00:10:28,359 Speaker 1: come up, they was thumbing down. I found that rewarding 164 00:10:28,440 --> 00:10:30,640 Speaker 1: for me to be able to hear that from my 165 00:10:30,760 --> 00:10:34,880 Speaker 1: comrade that's why I mean myself clear, I mean invisible, 166 00:10:35,360 --> 00:10:38,720 Speaker 1: so it wouldn't be misunderstood because the people thought I 167 00:10:38,800 --> 00:10:42,200 Speaker 1: had something to do it. Chicken Man flew to New 168 00:10:42,280 --> 00:10:47,200 Speaker 1: York to face the major players, including Frank Molten. Remember Frank, 169 00:10:47,840 --> 00:10:50,600 Speaker 1: known as the Black Godfather, was a member of the 170 00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:54,720 Speaker 1: Council of Twelve. Frank did business with other high level 171 00:10:54,760 --> 00:10:58,920 Speaker 1: criminals like Nicky Barnes and Frank Lucas. And I always 172 00:10:58,960 --> 00:11:01,880 Speaker 1: wondered how many other big time players were at the 173 00:11:01,880 --> 00:11:06,160 Speaker 1: after party when it got robbed. But Frank Molten was 174 00:11:06,200 --> 00:11:10,120 Speaker 1: an ally the Chicken Man, and he vouched for him. 175 00:11:10,280 --> 00:11:14,199 Speaker 1: And Fay told me, so this is going, then nobody 176 00:11:14,240 --> 00:11:17,400 Speaker 1: think you've done that. He said, God, there's no way 177 00:11:17,400 --> 00:11:20,680 Speaker 1: than people that Jeric is surface and we don't know it. 178 00:11:22,240 --> 00:11:24,559 Speaker 1: That's a lot of money. Fact told me, So this 179 00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:29,520 Speaker 1: is going. One thing we know is that too many 180 00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:33,200 Speaker 1: people know about it, so it won't be low and 181 00:11:33,240 --> 00:11:35,400 Speaker 1: if they can't go to the Jews though they came 182 00:11:35,440 --> 00:11:38,800 Speaker 1: upon it, So we're gonna put the people on notice. 183 00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:42,480 Speaker 1: But we had to cap by the tail um. But 184 00:11:42,960 --> 00:11:46,319 Speaker 1: one thing I did know, some of the biggest racketeers 185 00:11:46,360 --> 00:11:49,959 Speaker 1: in the country were there if not the biggest. I 186 00:11:50,280 --> 00:11:54,960 Speaker 1: sweared it out as any big time racketeer who was 187 00:11:55,040 --> 00:11:58,600 Speaker 1: not in at Manta, and most of whom came to 188 00:11:58,640 --> 00:12:03,600 Speaker 1: that party. And that's why Coon the graves I said 189 00:12:03,640 --> 00:12:07,520 Speaker 1: that these guys are crazy. They're gonna get killed because 190 00:12:07,559 --> 00:12:11,000 Speaker 1: they've robbed a black marka know. J D seems to 191 00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:14,880 Speaker 1: take credit for coining the phrase black mafia, but we're 192 00:12:14,920 --> 00:12:18,840 Speaker 1: not exactly sure when this term was first used. The 193 00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:22,480 Speaker 1: title was associated in the late sixties and early seventies 194 00:12:22,760 --> 00:12:30,640 Speaker 1: to a criminal organization in Philadelphia whose activities ranged from extortion, gambling, prostitution, 195 00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:35,360 Speaker 1: and ultimately political murders, but the members of the black 196 00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:39,120 Speaker 1: Mafia he is referring to were from several other cities 197 00:12:39,520 --> 00:12:44,520 Speaker 1: like Detroit, Kansas City, and New York. J D believed 198 00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:48,560 Speaker 1: that one of Frank Morton's bodyguards caught Bookie Brown and 199 00:12:48,640 --> 00:12:52,040 Speaker 1: a lady named Lillian Dabney as they fled the robbery. 200 00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:56,880 Speaker 1: Soon after, the police found their dead bodies at Proctor Creek, 201 00:12:57,480 --> 00:13:02,040 Speaker 1: just miles away from Handy Drive. Around this time, j 202 00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:05,319 Speaker 1: D and his team found their first piece of evidence. 203 00:13:07,040 --> 00:13:10,360 Speaker 1: That's truth. It is got bed behind some bushes the 204 00:13:10,360 --> 00:13:16,160 Speaker 1: hedges on the right hand side of the house. There 205 00:13:16,240 --> 00:13:19,720 Speaker 1: was a bay back happletes bay Okay, a duffle bag 206 00:13:19,760 --> 00:13:24,680 Speaker 1: in a way, a hand water and uh that was 207 00:13:24,840 --> 00:13:29,720 Speaker 1: a forty five revolver, a start off shotgun, A couple 208 00:13:29,800 --> 00:13:34,080 Speaker 1: of masks are walking talking, and two large pillowcases. The 209 00:13:34,120 --> 00:13:37,959 Speaker 1: witness told me that that they said a woman was involved. 210 00:13:38,120 --> 00:13:42,080 Speaker 1: Right he was clicking on the floor right that they 211 00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:46,160 Speaker 1: would rot the man splitting jewelry, tacking juror from the 212 00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:50,600 Speaker 1: women and putting them. Now you've got the duffle bags 213 00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:54,480 Speaker 1: with forty five was shot up shotgun with pillowcases with 214 00:13:54,600 --> 00:13:57,040 Speaker 1: some masks. So now you've got the beginning of the case. 215 00:13:57,160 --> 00:14:00,560 Speaker 1: We checked the time shop on which the gone was 216 00:14:00,760 --> 00:14:03,760 Speaker 1: like his own age Wood Avenue across from the Minnesota market. 217 00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:06,240 Speaker 1: About the gun that was found in the duffel bad 218 00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:10,280 Speaker 1: got you and land it was like this back Houston 219 00:14:10,360 --> 00:14:14,600 Speaker 1: Hammond use his own drifts to flex his damn. Okay, 220 00:14:15,480 --> 00:14:18,960 Speaker 1: so we got this. But once j D. Knew that 221 00:14:19,040 --> 00:14:22,320 Speaker 1: Houston Haymans used his idea to buy the shotgun from 222 00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:26,640 Speaker 1: a pawn shop, he and his partner Joe Amos, decided 223 00:14:26,680 --> 00:14:29,560 Speaker 1: to stake out a part of town that Houston Haymons 224 00:14:29,680 --> 00:14:33,040 Speaker 1: was known to frequent with a bit of luck. They 225 00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:36,960 Speaker 1: spotted him while they were eating lunch. Here's j D 226 00:14:37,520 --> 00:14:46,960 Speaker 1: filling me in on the details. So we got in start. 227 00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:49,720 Speaker 1: I gat an office and he would get a stampaign. 228 00:14:55,400 --> 00:14:59,720 Speaker 1: Since he wouldn't tell us who's involved. I called the 229 00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:03,640 Speaker 1: press his conference. Can drug about to sail the stugment 230 00:15:03,720 --> 00:15:08,000 Speaker 1: round the cameras, I said, you tell me who with you. 231 00:15:08,360 --> 00:15:11,960 Speaker 1: I'm gonna make an announcement that you totally everybody. How 232 00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:14,760 Speaker 1: mun tell the guys that you was about the robbery. 233 00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:17,040 Speaker 1: Here I am with j D at his house in 234 00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:21,280 Speaker 1: two thousand and three when I questioned his account versus 235 00:15:21,320 --> 00:15:24,440 Speaker 1: what was reported in the newspaper. Now, let me just 236 00:15:24,440 --> 00:15:26,320 Speaker 1: stop you for one second, because in one of the 237 00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:29,040 Speaker 1: articles he said he was tricked into buying that gun, 238 00:15:30,080 --> 00:15:33,000 Speaker 1: tricked he's a drug, and he's a drug. He got it. 239 00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:35,440 Speaker 1: And so I totally got my front and lots conference 240 00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:39,040 Speaker 1: and kind of who you are. Let the boys know 241 00:15:39,240 --> 00:15:42,520 Speaker 1: you want the robber and how my time you loose unbelievable. 242 00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:45,920 Speaker 1: That's going to scare him even more. And so that's 243 00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:49,640 Speaker 1: through about markets and you didn't do that because I've 244 00:15:49,680 --> 00:15:52,320 Speaker 1: got the article where it mentions his name. Well, I 245 00:15:52,360 --> 00:15:54,560 Speaker 1: threw in my office. But he's big, He's beat on 246 00:15:54,640 --> 00:15:57,600 Speaker 1: the door. It big and cry, he cried, Yeah, he 247 00:15:57,600 --> 00:16:00,880 Speaker 1: would have been killed. Right. So j threatened to go 248 00:16:00,920 --> 00:16:04,480 Speaker 1: on the news and tell the world that Houston Hammonds 249 00:16:04,760 --> 00:16:08,960 Speaker 1: was responsible for the robbery, hoping this would scare him 250 00:16:08,960 --> 00:16:12,320 Speaker 1: into a confession. Okay, when you told him what you 251 00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:14,800 Speaker 1: were gonna do, did he reconsider and say I'm willing 252 00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:19,080 Speaker 1: to talk? He told everything is in his mind and 253 00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:21,720 Speaker 1: his words. What did he say? Happy? Well, he told 254 00:16:21,720 --> 00:16:25,160 Speaker 1: me where they bought the walking talking Okay, where did 255 00:16:25,160 --> 00:16:29,360 Speaker 1: they buy those? In radio shape one street? What hope? 256 00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:32,920 Speaker 1: Did he say? They bought the masks from a five 257 00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:37,400 Speaker 1: intensor stone upon a Butler Street, and ed, okay, but 258 00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:43,200 Speaker 1: the shotguns old that, uh cont on Leash Street right 259 00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:47,640 Speaker 1: about seven thus, and they both the songs from a 260 00:16:47,840 --> 00:16:51,000 Speaker 1: Potwest so at least a year, right they thought? The 261 00:16:51,120 --> 00:16:54,760 Speaker 1: uns often failed? And I had this Halloween mask. Here's 262 00:16:54,840 --> 00:16:58,280 Speaker 1: j D explaining to Chicken Man why the robbers had 263 00:16:58,360 --> 00:17:00,800 Speaker 1: to wear masks. Just what I had the mask on, 264 00:17:01,320 --> 00:17:05,360 Speaker 1: because that y'all would have known him. I said one 265 00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:07,760 Speaker 1: question to have a mask on, and I think that 266 00:17:07,840 --> 00:17:11,920 Speaker 1: was that boy from Newcastle, New York who just got 267 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:14,240 Speaker 1: back to the guy came to Atlanta, he grew up 268 00:17:14,280 --> 00:17:18,520 Speaker 1: in uh one arriving to Georgia. And he was the 269 00:17:18,680 --> 00:17:23,520 Speaker 1: brother now the first cousin they were. There were three 270 00:17:23,560 --> 00:17:27,280 Speaker 1: relatives involved. We knew. It was shocking as a matter 271 00:17:27,320 --> 00:17:30,760 Speaker 1: of fact, at the caliber of guys who pulled off 272 00:17:30,760 --> 00:17:34,440 Speaker 1: the robbery. The guys those how cold they were, and 273 00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:51,840 Speaker 1: they were cold as ice, threatening to kill everybody. Houston, Hayman's, 274 00:17:51,960 --> 00:17:55,320 Speaker 1: claimed to j D and Joe Amos during their interrogation 275 00:17:55,760 --> 00:17:58,840 Speaker 1: that he was paid to purchase the shotgun by James 276 00:17:58,920 --> 00:18:03,840 Speaker 1: Henry Hall. Now they had another name to investigate. Even 277 00:18:03,920 --> 00:18:06,920 Speaker 1: more incredible was a piece of paper they found in 278 00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:11,359 Speaker 1: Houston's pocket. It had a telephone number and extension on 279 00:18:11,520 --> 00:18:14,760 Speaker 1: it that led the two detectives to a hotel suite. 280 00:18:15,880 --> 00:18:19,200 Speaker 1: No one was in that hotel suite, but luckily j 281 00:18:19,400 --> 00:18:22,800 Speaker 1: D and Amos stumbled into a group of robbery victims 282 00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:26,440 Speaker 1: before they had a chance to leave town. J D 283 00:18:26,600 --> 00:18:29,000 Speaker 1: convinced them he was not interested in who they were 284 00:18:29,560 --> 00:18:34,120 Speaker 1: or what they did, but only in who robbed them. Reluctantly, 285 00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:38,440 Speaker 1: they agreed to talk the main piece of information he 286 00:18:38,560 --> 00:18:42,080 Speaker 1: received was that the four of them calculated their losses 287 00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:46,320 Speaker 1: at a total of seventy eight thousand dollars. I did 288 00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:50,119 Speaker 1: the math if there were approximately a hundred people at 289 00:18:50,160 --> 00:18:53,600 Speaker 1: the after party, that puts the total Hall at just 290 00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:59,080 Speaker 1: under four million dollars, staggering numbers. J D and Amos 291 00:18:59,240 --> 00:19:02,600 Speaker 1: were unable to find James Henry Hall at first, but 292 00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:05,440 Speaker 1: they were able to trace purchases He made it a 293 00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:11,879 Speaker 1: pawn shop on Marietta Street, a thirty gage shotgun, a knife, hacks, 294 00:19:11,920 --> 00:19:17,000 Speaker 1: all hacks, all blades, and some sandpaper. Two new names 295 00:19:17,040 --> 00:19:21,159 Speaker 1: were added to their list as well, Charles Lee and 296 00:19:21,320 --> 00:19:25,199 Speaker 1: Baby Ray Humphreys. Here's j D back in two thousand 297 00:19:25,240 --> 00:19:30,760 Speaker 1: and two talking about this young crew. This is getting 298 00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:32,840 Speaker 1: good now taking me back to that night. These men 299 00:19:32,920 --> 00:19:35,399 Speaker 1: are in both to the robbery. How did they find 300 00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:39,280 Speaker 1: out that the party was going on? Well? Hung around 301 00:19:39,400 --> 00:19:42,440 Speaker 1: the rule. But these are not big time high Rule. No, 302 00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:47,200 Speaker 1: these guys are lucre Mark. How old approximately or these 303 00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:52,600 Speaker 1: guys twented setting? But none of them probably in their 304 00:19:52,680 --> 00:19:56,200 Speaker 1: late thirties or forties. The one guy affects I think, 305 00:19:57,440 --> 00:20:01,720 Speaker 1: and what was his name? His name was daughter Nobody 306 00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:05,639 Speaker 1: connect him to mean that the name j D just 307 00:20:05,840 --> 00:20:10,639 Speaker 1: mentioned was Emerson Dorsey. His conclusion was that Dorsey was 308 00:20:10,760 --> 00:20:15,399 Speaker 1: the mastermind of the heist. From our research, we believe 309 00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:18,320 Speaker 1: it was another hustler from New York we discussed earlier, 310 00:20:18,800 --> 00:20:23,840 Speaker 1: named Richard Wheeler a k a. Cadillac Ritchie. But here's 311 00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:29,240 Speaker 1: j D explaining his speculation. Emerson, Emerson Dorsey. The hustlers 312 00:20:29,240 --> 00:20:32,680 Speaker 1: connected him than me. So why was this guy Dorsey 313 00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:36,680 Speaker 1: never connected? We could not know. And just because of 314 00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:40,600 Speaker 1: evidence or lock there or because he was not bad Okay, 315 00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:46,879 Speaker 1: but he was at the site. Sous told me that 316 00:20:47,200 --> 00:20:51,080 Speaker 1: every part of Emerson also went. There's the thing. As 317 00:20:51,119 --> 00:20:53,320 Speaker 1: a down woman, I'd be to call it what a 318 00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:56,720 Speaker 1: down will man woman? Okay, as his main woman right 319 00:20:58,040 --> 00:21:00,800 Speaker 1: when he went, she was with him night. She was 320 00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:04,119 Speaker 1: not a defight, which was unusual to the mamas and 321 00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:07,000 Speaker 1: dust the New York for twenty five thirty years. What 322 00:21:07,119 --> 00:21:10,080 Speaker 1: was his profession was he was a hotsplorer with the 323 00:21:10,160 --> 00:21:14,680 Speaker 1: big time, big time Okay, And the word I got 324 00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:17,879 Speaker 1: was the Chisholm was instrument and running him out of 325 00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:26,400 Speaker 1: New York. Sen Chishom Congresswoman Shirley Chisholm was an American politician, educator, 326 00:21:26,760 --> 00:21:30,840 Speaker 1: and author. In nineteen sixty eight, she became the first 327 00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:35,399 Speaker 1: black woman elected to the United States Congress, representing New 328 00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:40,200 Speaker 1: York's twelfth Congressional District for seven terms from nineteen sixty 329 00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:45,679 Speaker 1: nine to three. In the nineteen seventy two United States 330 00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:49,920 Speaker 1: presidential election, she became the first black candidate for a 331 00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:53,719 Speaker 1: major party's nomination for the president of the United States 332 00:21:54,560 --> 00:21:58,320 Speaker 1: and the first woman to run for the Democratic Party's 333 00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:03,600 Speaker 1: presidential nomination. She must not have liked Emerson Dorsey at 334 00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:07,639 Speaker 1: all or any of his criminal activities, because, according to 335 00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:11,040 Speaker 1: j D, she was integral in running him out of 336 00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:14,800 Speaker 1: New York. Here's j D telling me what happened to 337 00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:20,640 Speaker 1: this big time hustler. Is Emerson Dorsey still alive or not? Okay? 338 00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:23,040 Speaker 1: So we got this down woman that isn't at the fight. 339 00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:25,840 Speaker 1: Within the night of the party, and the hustle's noticed that. 340 00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:30,800 Speaker 1: They say Amazon Dialon wasn't with him. That was something 341 00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:35,119 Speaker 1: wrong with that. Amazon had cooled a summer robbery in 342 00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:38,920 Speaker 1: New York though, And they all suspected me, is she 343 00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:42,080 Speaker 1: at the party? I don't know. We know what her 344 00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:44,520 Speaker 1: name is or a nickname or a real name. I've 345 00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:47,119 Speaker 1: never got her name, but this tips off the hustlers 346 00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:50,040 Speaker 1: in retrospecting, I got you and what we're thinking in 347 00:22:50,200 --> 00:22:52,600 Speaker 1: retrospect this is just all something we're trying to put together. 348 00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:57,800 Speaker 1: Is that McKinley, James Houston, Charles and maybe a couple 349 00:22:57,840 --> 00:23:01,320 Speaker 1: of other people were working for Emerson Worth reckon friend 350 00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:04,520 Speaker 1: may not be the right Okay, let me phrase to frighten. Okay, 351 00:23:05,000 --> 00:23:10,560 Speaker 1: I think that Emma friends may have gotten in together 352 00:23:11,640 --> 00:23:17,600 Speaker 1: and organized the robbery, directed the roper set it up, 353 00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:19,640 Speaker 1: but it could have been more of a revenge plain 354 00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:21,560 Speaker 1: but getting right out of who yea, but who would 355 00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:24,760 Speaker 1: he be getting revenge on the New York hustlers? The 356 00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:27,600 Speaker 1: body or got you? Okay? I was that rob Okay? 357 00:23:27,760 --> 00:23:29,800 Speaker 1: So he was run out of New York by not 358 00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:32,280 Speaker 1: just one husberd by a bunch of hustlers. Well, I 359 00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:35,840 Speaker 1: think he had leaving New Yorker back and just leaving 360 00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:38,919 Speaker 1: Troye or leaving New Yorker rodegea. He moved in Latta. 361 00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:44,120 Speaker 1: His family lived in a natter so he was here. 362 00:23:45,119 --> 00:23:47,080 Speaker 1: He came in and decided he's going to take over 363 00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:52,040 Speaker 1: the lotary. In the last one of the prime hangouts 364 00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:55,879 Speaker 1: for two or three of the big hustlers was a 365 00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:59,280 Speaker 1: fool room and on the street made from Miss Turner, 366 00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:03,440 Speaker 1: and he had started hanging out there and recruiting to 367 00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:08,440 Speaker 1: young guys to wait for him. He's also drug man. 368 00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:14,720 Speaker 1: Hearing JD thought that Emerson Dorsey had organized some local 369 00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:18,600 Speaker 1: pool hustlers for the robbery, but he had no evidence 370 00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:22,520 Speaker 1: to prove it, and just as the investigation seemed like 371 00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:26,320 Speaker 1: it would fizzle out, he and Joe Amos caught a break. 372 00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:31,320 Speaker 1: Using some information obtain from the streets. They got the 373 00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:36,320 Speaker 1: address of James Henry Hall, and now they knew where 374 00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:40,920 Speaker 1: the stash house was and where the robbers we're hiding out. 375 00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:53,280 Speaker 1: Fight Night is a joint production from I Heart Radio, 376 00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:56,639 Speaker 1: Will Packer Media and dog House Pictures in association with 377 00:24:56,720 --> 00:25:01,200 Speaker 1: Psychopia Pictures. Produced and hosted by Jeff Keating. Executive producers 378 00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:06,160 Speaker 1: are Will Packer, James Lopez, Kenny Burns, Dan Bush, Lars Jacobsen, 379 00:25:06,320 --> 00:25:11,119 Speaker 1: and Noel Brown. Supervising producer is Taylor Shicoyne. Story editors 380 00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:14,359 Speaker 1: are Noel Brown and Dan Bush. Written by Jeff Keating 381 00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:18,120 Speaker 1: and Jim Roberts, edited by Matt Owen, Mixing and sound 382 00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:22,159 Speaker 1: designed by Jeremiah Kolanni Prescott. Music written and performed by 383 00:25:22,200 --> 00:25:26,679 Speaker 1: the Diamond Street Players. Additional music by Ben Lovett. Audio 384 00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:30,399 Speaker 1: archives courtesy of WSB News Film and Video Tape Collection, 385 00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:34,520 Speaker 1: Brown Media Archives, University of Georgia Libraries. Special thanks to 386 00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:38,720 Speaker 1: Dr Maurice Hobson and David Davis. Fight Night is a 387 00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:41,840 Speaker 1: production of I heart Radio. For more podcasts from my 388 00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:46,280 Speaker 1: heart Radio, check out the i heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 389 00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:48,560 Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts.