1 00:00:04,440 --> 00:00:09,280 Speaker 1: Hello everybody, and welcome back to the Psychology of Your Twenties, 2 00:00:09,920 --> 00:00:12,280 Speaker 1: the podcast where we talk through some of the big 3 00:00:12,520 --> 00:00:16,880 Speaker 1: life changes and transitions of our twenties and what they 4 00:00:16,960 --> 00:00:25,360 Speaker 1: mean for our psychology. Hello everybody, Welcome back to the show. 5 00:00:25,440 --> 00:00:29,880 Speaker 1: Welcome back to the podcast. New listeners, old listeners. Wherever 6 00:00:29,880 --> 00:00:32,680 Speaker 1: you are in the world, it is so great to 7 00:00:32,720 --> 00:00:35,839 Speaker 1: have you here, back for another episode as we explore 8 00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:40,560 Speaker 1: the psychology of our twenties. Of course, it is guest month, 9 00:00:40,600 --> 00:00:44,320 Speaker 1: December month, and we have an amazing guest, a homegrown 10 00:00:44,440 --> 00:00:47,519 Speaker 1: Ozzie guest here with us today. You may know her 11 00:00:47,600 --> 00:00:52,760 Speaker 1: from her incredible podcast Do You Fucking Mind? Alexis Feddner's How. 12 00:00:52,760 --> 00:00:56,560 Speaker 2: I'm so excited to be here. It was like two 13 00:00:56,560 --> 00:00:57,240 Speaker 2: worlds colliding. 14 00:00:57,360 --> 00:01:00,000 Speaker 1: It's colliding. I was like, this had to happen. 15 00:01:00,120 --> 00:01:04,440 Speaker 2: And I know, never never spoken before. Wow. And we've 16 00:01:04,480 --> 00:01:06,399 Speaker 2: just been sitting here now for like I don't know 17 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:08,840 Speaker 2: how long, just like we can't stop talking. 18 00:01:09,400 --> 00:01:11,520 Speaker 1: Literally, before we started recording, we were like having a 19 00:01:11,560 --> 00:01:13,840 Speaker 1: discussion around zombie apocalypses. 20 00:01:14,280 --> 00:01:16,760 Speaker 2: I don't know, how do we find fire safety hazards 21 00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:18,120 Speaker 2: and dead bolts on doors? 22 00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:21,400 Speaker 1: Yeah, not really relevant to psychology or self care, but 23 00:01:21,840 --> 00:01:23,520 Speaker 1: nonetheless was fulfilling for me. 24 00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:26,520 Speaker 2: It was I know, we've we've come up with some 25 00:01:26,600 --> 00:01:28,320 Speaker 2: ideas to message our landlords. 26 00:01:28,480 --> 00:01:32,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you, thank you for that. So I think 27 00:01:32,760 --> 00:01:34,680 Speaker 1: I think it's so something that I don't even think 28 00:01:34,720 --> 00:01:38,080 Speaker 1: I said this to you. But when I was in university, 29 00:01:38,400 --> 00:01:41,960 Speaker 1: I was I was a do you fucking mind stand? 30 00:01:42,720 --> 00:01:44,280 Speaker 2: Really amazing. 31 00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:47,240 Speaker 1: I still listen to it now, obviously, but I remember 32 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:50,840 Speaker 1: going through like my first huge breakup when I was 33 00:01:51,560 --> 00:01:55,560 Speaker 1: ninety eighteen years old, Yeah, and listening to your episodes 34 00:01:55,640 --> 00:01:59,640 Speaker 1: on these like nature Walks through Cam being like, hell, me, 35 00:02:01,080 --> 00:02:01,480 Speaker 1: that is. 36 00:02:02,920 --> 00:02:03,560 Speaker 2: I love that. 37 00:02:03,720 --> 00:02:05,040 Speaker 1: It's a full circle moment for me. 38 00:02:05,320 --> 00:02:08,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, this is amazing. And I feel like, I don't know, 39 00:02:08,200 --> 00:02:10,800 Speaker 2: I feel like most of the people that were like 40 00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:13,880 Speaker 2: the ogs who have like shared the podcast and listened 41 00:02:13,919 --> 00:02:16,320 Speaker 2: to it, it's they found me at a time of 42 00:02:16,440 --> 00:02:19,000 Speaker 2: like deepest heartbreak, which is really really cool, and then 43 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:21,799 Speaker 2: they've like gone on that journey of like self discovery 44 00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:24,200 Speaker 2: and you know learning. I feel like you learned so 45 00:02:24,280 --> 00:02:26,840 Speaker 2: much about yourself when you're heartbroken. It's like the biggest 46 00:02:26,919 --> 00:02:29,160 Speaker 2: learning curve. It's pretty And now I feel this when 47 00:02:29,200 --> 00:02:31,160 Speaker 2: people like I've never been heartbroken. I'm like, I'm a 48 00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:34,640 Speaker 2: little bit sorry for you because it's such I don't know, 49 00:02:34,760 --> 00:02:36,640 Speaker 2: it's such a rich experience. 50 00:02:36,840 --> 00:02:39,440 Speaker 1: I used to say, like heartbreak is sacred, isn't it? 51 00:02:39,480 --> 00:02:42,799 Speaker 1: Because it's exactly as you said. People I think enter 52 00:02:42,919 --> 00:02:45,800 Speaker 1: into a lot of like personal development and self growth 53 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:49,400 Speaker 1: through heartbreak, and then there's suddenly like awoken to this 54 00:02:49,560 --> 00:02:53,600 Speaker 1: whole bigger spectrum of other things that are going to 55 00:02:53,639 --> 00:02:56,639 Speaker 1: improve their life and that they wouldn't have accessed if 56 00:02:56,639 --> 00:02:59,280 Speaker 1: that like loser hadn't you know, cheated on them or 57 00:02:59,320 --> 00:02:59,920 Speaker 1: like Richie. 58 00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:02,040 Speaker 2: So you need to go through that pain, You need 59 00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:05,120 Speaker 2: to go through something just not being fair, And how 60 00:03:05,120 --> 00:03:06,880 Speaker 2: do you deal with that? Like how do you I 61 00:03:06,919 --> 00:03:11,919 Speaker 2: think before you've experienced that, you've never experienced truly an 62 00:03:12,040 --> 00:03:14,600 Speaker 2: unfair situation where there's no sense that can be made 63 00:03:14,639 --> 00:03:16,799 Speaker 2: from it? Like how do you move forward from something 64 00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:19,440 Speaker 2: that can't be fixed and can't be made sense off? 65 00:03:19,480 --> 00:03:22,639 Speaker 2: And that's where you loan so much about, like your 66 00:03:22,639 --> 00:03:26,560 Speaker 2: resilience and how you make peace with something just yourself 67 00:03:26,600 --> 00:03:28,240 Speaker 2: and not fun closure and not you. 68 00:03:28,200 --> 00:03:30,280 Speaker 1: Know, my god, the closure thing. I was talking to 69 00:03:30,320 --> 00:03:32,480 Speaker 1: a friend of mine the other day and she was like, 70 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:34,280 Speaker 1: how am I meant to move on when I can't 71 00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:36,840 Speaker 1: stop thinking about this person? And I was like, you 72 00:03:36,880 --> 00:03:39,640 Speaker 1: need to provide your own emotional closure in this moment. 73 00:03:39,680 --> 00:03:40,440 Speaker 2: One hundred percent. 74 00:03:40,800 --> 00:03:43,160 Speaker 1: I don't know. So we're not even talking about heartbreak. 75 00:03:43,200 --> 00:03:46,000 Speaker 1: We may as well be Like I love that we 76 00:03:46,080 --> 00:03:47,040 Speaker 1: just get straight into. 77 00:03:46,840 --> 00:03:49,000 Speaker 2: The straight into it. 78 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:51,680 Speaker 1: It's like immediately like what are we here for inspiration? 79 00:03:52,240 --> 00:03:54,760 Speaker 1: But what we are really here to talk about today 80 00:03:55,480 --> 00:03:57,840 Speaker 1: is a topic that I think is so important during 81 00:03:58,200 --> 00:04:03,840 Speaker 1: this season of the year, dealing with difficult family members, 82 00:04:04,240 --> 00:04:08,200 Speaker 1: complex family dynamics. I don't love the word toxic, but 83 00:04:08,240 --> 00:04:09,480 Speaker 1: I do think it applies here. 84 00:04:09,760 --> 00:04:13,320 Speaker 2: It does to certain to certain families. It definitely would, 85 00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:15,240 Speaker 2: because I feel like what we were discussing before, with 86 00:04:15,320 --> 00:04:18,279 Speaker 2: some families, there's a lot of there's a lot of issues, 87 00:04:18,279 --> 00:04:21,359 Speaker 2: but it's not necessarily toxic. It's just clashing of the 88 00:04:21,440 --> 00:04:25,839 Speaker 2: minds versus situations where it's really genuinely unhealthy and someone's 89 00:04:25,880 --> 00:04:28,279 Speaker 2: genuinely out to get you kind of thing. You know. 90 00:04:28,520 --> 00:04:30,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, well that was that was something I was really 91 00:04:30,640 --> 00:04:34,160 Speaker 1: interested in asking you about. Is Like, I think we 92 00:04:34,320 --> 00:04:38,200 Speaker 1: use the term like toxic to describe a whole different 93 00:04:38,279 --> 00:04:41,400 Speaker 1: pattern of behaviors. What are some of the key ones 94 00:04:41,440 --> 00:04:45,760 Speaker 1: that you think are most typical of those? Like, yeah, 95 00:04:45,760 --> 00:04:48,880 Speaker 1: in like complex family dynamics, Like what are some of 96 00:04:48,920 --> 00:04:52,000 Speaker 1: the behaviors that we should be looking out for to 97 00:04:52,120 --> 00:04:56,120 Speaker 1: identify that, Like maybe this relationship, although it's family, is 98 00:04:56,160 --> 00:04:57,239 Speaker 1: actually not that healthy. 99 00:04:57,440 --> 00:04:59,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, So I guess like you've got to like pull 100 00:04:59,640 --> 00:05:03,080 Speaker 2: apart like what is? Because I always say, like, when 101 00:05:03,080 --> 00:05:05,640 Speaker 2: you're trying to form new relationships, like, the biggest thing 102 00:05:05,640 --> 00:05:07,559 Speaker 2: that you can do is just like number one, seek 103 00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:10,400 Speaker 2: to understand. You don't have to agree, but try and 104 00:05:10,440 --> 00:05:13,360 Speaker 2: see where someone's coming from, because sometimes you can look 105 00:05:13,360 --> 00:05:16,240 Speaker 2: at it from a place of oh wow. A big 106 00:05:16,279 --> 00:05:18,560 Speaker 2: one that I get is women who don't get along 107 00:05:18,600 --> 00:05:20,640 Speaker 2: with their sister in laws. And I think a lot 108 00:05:20,680 --> 00:05:24,560 Speaker 2: of that stems from you've taken my brother away from me. 109 00:05:24,760 --> 00:05:27,520 Speaker 2: I'm getting defensive. So if you can understand it from 110 00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:30,479 Speaker 2: that perspective, you're like, can I crack this person and 111 00:05:30,480 --> 00:05:32,279 Speaker 2: get them to like me? Because they're just feeling a 112 00:05:32,279 --> 00:05:34,880 Speaker 2: little bit insecure right now. They're feeling like this person's 113 00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:37,200 Speaker 2: being taken away from them. If I can approach it 114 00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:40,640 Speaker 2: in a clever way, I can turn this around, not 115 00:05:40,640 --> 00:05:43,960 Speaker 2: that it's on your shoulders, but you could potentially by 116 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:47,240 Speaker 2: opening up to them and being vulnerable to that person, 117 00:05:47,279 --> 00:05:49,159 Speaker 2: and then they're like, oh, you're a human just like me. 118 00:05:49,240 --> 00:05:51,279 Speaker 2: You're not this big, scary girlfriend that swept in and 119 00:05:51,320 --> 00:05:54,760 Speaker 2: taken my brother who's my best friend. You're actually a 120 00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:59,039 Speaker 2: feeling human, And then they can open up versus you 121 00:05:59,240 --> 00:06:04,120 Speaker 2: genuinely feeling attacked because the family might not agree with you. Know, 122 00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:07,359 Speaker 2: the fact that it's a big one is it's a 123 00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:12,120 Speaker 2: gay relationship, or it's a divide in beliefs, or they 124 00:06:12,120 --> 00:06:14,840 Speaker 2: don't like your lifestyle, so they're just like, we don't 125 00:06:14,839 --> 00:06:19,080 Speaker 2: accept you. That's it, and to try and or parents 126 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:22,800 Speaker 2: a huge one is where mothers don't want to let 127 00:06:22,839 --> 00:06:25,480 Speaker 2: go of their sons, sometimes daughters as well. But if 128 00:06:25,520 --> 00:06:28,440 Speaker 2: I find a really common one is mums like digging 129 00:06:28,480 --> 00:06:31,080 Speaker 2: their heels in being like it's my baby may and 130 00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:34,599 Speaker 2: they want to like coddle their adult son and it's 131 00:06:34,640 --> 00:06:39,479 Speaker 2: like like you yeah, and I've got heaps of listeners, 132 00:06:39,520 --> 00:06:42,960 Speaker 2: but friends as well who really struggle with that one 133 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:45,600 Speaker 2: and trying to have a decent relationship with the mother 134 00:06:45,680 --> 00:06:48,200 Speaker 2: in law is a huge one. And then when it 135 00:06:48,200 --> 00:06:52,240 Speaker 2: comes to like Christmas holiday season, they want their kids, 136 00:06:52,560 --> 00:06:55,520 Speaker 2: adult kids with them all the time. They want nothing 137 00:06:55,560 --> 00:06:59,159 Speaker 2: to have changed. So it's I guess it's really difficult 138 00:06:59,200 --> 00:07:02,320 Speaker 2: to navigate this real lifelationship when they're the ones that 139 00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:05,240 Speaker 2: have to like, they've got their kids, They've got to 140 00:07:05,279 --> 00:07:07,599 Speaker 2: accept that their kids are growing up and the dynamic 141 00:07:07,680 --> 00:07:09,440 Speaker 2: is going to change, and a lot of families can't 142 00:07:09,480 --> 00:07:12,040 Speaker 2: accept that. They can't accept change, Whereas you're the one 143 00:07:12,040 --> 00:07:14,000 Speaker 2: who's like, well, I'm just growing into this world. I'm 144 00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:16,000 Speaker 2: becoming an adult. I'm experiencing all these new things. Why 145 00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:17,800 Speaker 2: am I being attacked? What have I done wrong? 146 00:07:18,040 --> 00:07:20,720 Speaker 1: I'm listening to that being like applying that to so 147 00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:23,480 Speaker 1: many situations in my own life. I'm like, wow, that 148 00:07:23,560 --> 00:07:27,160 Speaker 1: is actually quite universal. Yeah, that is so universal. You 149 00:07:27,240 --> 00:07:29,520 Speaker 1: made such a good point there. I think the reason 150 00:07:29,520 --> 00:07:31,600 Speaker 1: why a lot of us in our twenties in particular, 151 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:35,600 Speaker 1: start to experience this friction for the first time is 152 00:07:35,640 --> 00:07:38,800 Speaker 1: because we are It is the first kind of period 153 00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:41,400 Speaker 1: or chapter in our life in which we are rejecting 154 00:07:41,400 --> 00:07:44,360 Speaker 1: the label of child. And that's just not like personally, 155 00:07:44,440 --> 00:07:49,320 Speaker 1: that's like saying almost to our families, I'm not a 156 00:07:49,400 --> 00:07:52,360 Speaker 1: kid anymore, like your relationship to me might be that 157 00:07:52,400 --> 00:07:55,160 Speaker 1: I'm your child, but I'm also an adult who is 158 00:07:55,240 --> 00:07:58,080 Speaker 1: trying to set up their own life, who has boundaries 159 00:07:58,120 --> 00:08:01,240 Speaker 1: around how I want to be treated now. And I 160 00:08:01,240 --> 00:08:03,600 Speaker 1: think it's also natural to go through a period where 161 00:08:03,600 --> 00:08:05,680 Speaker 1: you detach from your family and then you come back. 162 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:09,760 Speaker 1: The other one that I think is really interesting, which 163 00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:14,040 Speaker 1: comes up all the time during this period is differing 164 00:08:14,080 --> 00:08:19,000 Speaker 1: political beliefs. And I find this in my own family 165 00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:22,600 Speaker 1: quite a bit. My parents are not with my parents 166 00:08:22,640 --> 00:08:26,520 Speaker 1: per se, but with like my extended family, where just 167 00:08:26,560 --> 00:08:28,320 Speaker 1: because you're a lated doesn't mean you're going to agree 168 00:08:28,320 --> 00:08:30,960 Speaker 1: on everything. What some of your advice from that? Have 169 00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:32,920 Speaker 1: you seen that like in your friendship group as well? 170 00:08:32,960 --> 00:08:36,200 Speaker 2: Definitely, definitely. And when it comes to political this is 171 00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:38,240 Speaker 2: like a really good topic because I feel like when 172 00:08:38,240 --> 00:08:40,360 Speaker 2: it comes to difference in politics, one thing that I 173 00:08:40,400 --> 00:08:44,320 Speaker 2: always raise with my family, my in laws, with anyone 174 00:08:44,360 --> 00:08:47,600 Speaker 2: who might differ in their political blast friends, is that 175 00:08:47,679 --> 00:08:50,880 Speaker 2: I say, there's a difference between a debate. I love 176 00:08:50,880 --> 00:08:55,320 Speaker 2: a debate versus an argument, and I don't think it's 177 00:08:55,960 --> 00:09:00,000 Speaker 2: the healthiest thing to become emotionally attached to a political party. 178 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:02,640 Speaker 2: You should be able to criticize the party that you 179 00:09:03,280 --> 00:09:06,800 Speaker 2: are voting for. That's what makes an informed decision. So 180 00:09:06,840 --> 00:09:09,840 Speaker 2: when I see people get really emotional and angry about 181 00:09:09,880 --> 00:09:13,040 Speaker 2: a political thing, it's like, are you forming your identity 182 00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:16,200 Speaker 2: around this attachment or are you able to be like, 183 00:09:16,280 --> 00:09:19,840 Speaker 2: this is the right party for this time to run 184 00:09:19,880 --> 00:09:23,040 Speaker 2: this country? You know, So you should be able to 185 00:09:23,320 --> 00:09:27,600 Speaker 2: flick between political parties. You shouldn't make your identity about 186 00:09:27,760 --> 00:09:30,160 Speaker 2: a party. And if you happen to align with a 187 00:09:30,240 --> 00:09:31,559 Speaker 2: party for your whole life, fun. 188 00:09:31,559 --> 00:09:32,080 Speaker 1: That's great. 189 00:09:32,120 --> 00:09:34,600 Speaker 2: But it's this idea if I think people feel when 190 00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:36,440 Speaker 2: you attack the political party, you're attacking me. Now I'm 191 00:09:36,440 --> 00:09:37,959 Speaker 2: going to get angry. Now you're going to get defensive. 192 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:40,640 Speaker 2: But it's like I'm not I'm just raising something. Have 193 00:09:40,720 --> 00:09:42,760 Speaker 2: you thought about it in this way? Have you looked 194 00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:44,920 Speaker 2: at it in that way? And I always say to people, 195 00:09:45,200 --> 00:09:47,120 Speaker 2: I like to debate, but if you're going to start 196 00:09:47,200 --> 00:09:51,080 Speaker 2: character assassinating me, then I can't have this conversation. But 197 00:09:51,120 --> 00:09:53,560 Speaker 2: I'd love to discuss. I'd love I don't have to 198 00:09:53,640 --> 00:09:55,880 Speaker 2: change your mind, you don't have to change mind, But 199 00:09:55,920 --> 00:09:59,640 Speaker 2: I like I like seeing how other people think. Yeah, 200 00:09:59,679 --> 00:10:03,400 Speaker 2: and teaching me why they think that way, as long 201 00:10:03,440 --> 00:10:05,520 Speaker 2: as they're open to hearing the same back. 202 00:10:05,840 --> 00:10:09,040 Speaker 1: Nice It's like coming at it from approach of openness 203 00:10:09,040 --> 00:10:12,000 Speaker 1: and learning. I always I was saying this to someone 204 00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:15,160 Speaker 1: the other day. You sometimes get into these discussions with 205 00:10:15,240 --> 00:10:18,280 Speaker 1: people and you can see it in their eyes that 206 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:21,520 Speaker 1: they are looking for an argument, like do you know 207 00:10:21,559 --> 00:10:24,080 Speaker 1: what I'm talking about? It's like this fire where it's 208 00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:26,640 Speaker 1: like you can see that something has lit up in them, 209 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:29,480 Speaker 1: where you can tell in those moments that what you're 210 00:10:29,520 --> 00:10:32,400 Speaker 1: talking about for you might be a discussion for them 211 00:10:32,520 --> 00:10:33,559 Speaker 1: is a projection. 212 00:10:33,160 --> 00:10:34,600 Speaker 2: Of their identity big time. 213 00:10:34,720 --> 00:10:37,199 Speaker 1: And those are the topics that you need to just I. 214 00:10:37,160 --> 00:10:38,400 Speaker 2: Think step away from. 215 00:10:38,440 --> 00:10:39,240 Speaker 1: Step away from. 216 00:10:39,360 --> 00:10:41,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely, because and the people that and you can 217 00:10:42,040 --> 00:10:44,040 Speaker 2: figure this out really really quickly when you speak to 218 00:10:44,080 --> 00:10:46,720 Speaker 2: someone and you can tell that they're just thinking of 219 00:10:46,840 --> 00:10:48,960 Speaker 2: the next thing they're going to say instead of listening 220 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:52,240 Speaker 2: to it. You're actually saying and responding accordingly. So it's like, 221 00:10:52,280 --> 00:10:54,559 Speaker 2: I know, you're just brewing up your next argument, you're 222 00:10:54,600 --> 00:10:57,679 Speaker 2: not listening to me. So I think sometimes you also 223 00:10:57,720 --> 00:11:00,199 Speaker 2: have to just pick your battles with certain people you're 224 00:11:00,200 --> 00:11:01,679 Speaker 2: not going to be able to have a healthy debate 225 00:11:01,720 --> 00:11:05,600 Speaker 2: with everybody. And sometimes I think while you are in 226 00:11:05,640 --> 00:11:08,240 Speaker 2: your right to say what you want to say, sometimes 227 00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:11,880 Speaker 2: I think for your own peace of mind, just don't 228 00:11:12,280 --> 00:11:14,560 Speaker 2: just for your own safe you know, you just suffer. 229 00:11:14,720 --> 00:11:16,720 Speaker 2: Sometimes you cause yourself all this suffering because you're like, 230 00:11:17,080 --> 00:11:19,600 Speaker 2: but you know, I can have these conversations with these people, 231 00:11:19,600 --> 00:11:22,280 Speaker 2: but they're different people. You know, You've got to manage 232 00:11:22,280 --> 00:11:24,439 Speaker 2: your expectations around people. 233 00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:29,439 Speaker 1: Especially with family. It's like I think if it's hard 234 00:11:29,480 --> 00:11:31,840 Speaker 1: because I think when we're talking about dealing with difficult 235 00:11:31,840 --> 00:11:34,199 Speaker 1: family members, right, like we have a few categories here. 236 00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:38,520 Speaker 1: We have, as you said, like the relationships where there 237 00:11:38,600 --> 00:11:42,160 Speaker 1: is friction caused by change, where you know, the son 238 00:11:42,200 --> 00:11:44,840 Speaker 1: has grown up and gotten a girlfriend and the mother 239 00:11:45,040 --> 00:11:48,080 Speaker 1: is like really struggling to deal with that. I think 240 00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:50,480 Speaker 1: that's like environmental. I think part of that is also 241 00:11:51,080 --> 00:11:53,280 Speaker 1: we can put in like political beliefs as well. There's 242 00:11:53,280 --> 00:11:55,720 Speaker 1: like a there is again a friction in that sense 243 00:11:55,720 --> 00:11:58,120 Speaker 1: of like there is a disagreement. Then you have like 244 00:11:58,360 --> 00:12:06,200 Speaker 1: genuinely severe behaviors like narcissism, like compulsive liars, like even 245 00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:10,520 Speaker 1: abuse or controlling behaviors, which we'll talk about more in 246 00:12:10,559 --> 00:12:12,560 Speaker 1: a second. And then I think you have this other side, 247 00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:16,679 Speaker 1: which is parents who are really or family members who 248 00:12:16,679 --> 00:12:19,880 Speaker 1: are really trying their best but are dealing with something 249 00:12:19,920 --> 00:12:22,800 Speaker 1: that is making it so your relationship is free. So 250 00:12:22,840 --> 00:12:25,720 Speaker 1: I got this question the other day from someone that 251 00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:30,680 Speaker 1: was talking about how her mother is experiencing a really 252 00:12:31,040 --> 00:12:37,040 Speaker 1: bad episode of depression and that is by nature creating 253 00:12:37,360 --> 00:12:42,959 Speaker 1: difficulties in their relationship, creating a difficult dynamic where her 254 00:12:43,040 --> 00:12:46,120 Speaker 1: mother is probably not isn't really acting in a way 255 00:12:46,160 --> 00:12:48,480 Speaker 1: that I think is how we would see in mother 256 00:12:49,240 --> 00:12:52,120 Speaker 1: acting because of what's going on. How do you think 257 00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:55,760 Speaker 1: we deal with those different categories of people, like the friction, 258 00:12:57,040 --> 00:12:59,439 Speaker 1: like the clinical severe, and then just the people who 259 00:12:59,480 --> 00:13:01,520 Speaker 1: are perhaps not in a great place. 260 00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:03,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, So with people that are not in a great place, 261 00:13:03,720 --> 00:13:07,640 Speaker 2: I always say whether it could be depression or like 262 00:13:07,640 --> 00:13:12,080 Speaker 2: there's so many different, you know, categories, But always try 263 00:13:12,120 --> 00:13:16,079 Speaker 2: and remind yourself that that person is not the depression. 264 00:13:16,200 --> 00:13:18,440 Speaker 2: That person is not the X, Y Z. You know, 265 00:13:18,679 --> 00:13:21,840 Speaker 2: they are two separate things. So sometimes someone might treat 266 00:13:21,880 --> 00:13:23,960 Speaker 2: you in a certain way or push you away, or 267 00:13:24,040 --> 00:13:26,880 Speaker 2: create conflict within the relationship because they're going through this 268 00:13:26,960 --> 00:13:31,840 Speaker 2: internal suffering and it impacts the relationship, and it's you know, ideally, 269 00:13:31,880 --> 00:13:34,120 Speaker 2: you want to find a way so the relationship doesn't 270 00:13:34,120 --> 00:13:36,000 Speaker 2: break down. You want to find a way of being like, 271 00:13:36,040 --> 00:13:38,040 Speaker 2: every time I have this interaction, I have to be 272 00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:40,000 Speaker 2: at the forefront of my mind. Has to be they 273 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:42,439 Speaker 2: are not the depression and them are two separate things, 274 00:13:42,480 --> 00:13:45,440 Speaker 2: and the depression will get in the way and that's 275 00:13:45,480 --> 00:13:49,120 Speaker 2: not their intention. So how do you find a way 276 00:13:49,240 --> 00:13:52,240 Speaker 2: to maintain your boundaries for your own mental health but 277 00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:58,199 Speaker 2: also have patients and understanding in that space and sometimes 278 00:13:58,240 --> 00:14:01,240 Speaker 2: you might need to pull away just little bit and 279 00:14:01,360 --> 00:14:03,280 Speaker 2: be there for them, but say, you know, you know, 280 00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:06,480 Speaker 2: like I can't spend ten hours with my mum now 281 00:14:07,040 --> 00:14:10,760 Speaker 2: because it's I leave and I'm in a state. But 282 00:14:11,280 --> 00:14:14,640 Speaker 2: maybe I can find different ways of really being there 283 00:14:14,679 --> 00:14:17,280 Speaker 2: for her. That's just going to have to be different. 284 00:14:17,320 --> 00:14:19,720 Speaker 2: Sometimes your relationships will have to evolve in a different 285 00:14:19,760 --> 00:14:21,520 Speaker 2: way so you feel like you're still there for them, 286 00:14:21,560 --> 00:14:24,800 Speaker 2: but you also have to, you know, protect yourself as well, 287 00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:27,280 Speaker 2: so you're not also going to be spiraling as well. 288 00:14:28,440 --> 00:14:31,760 Speaker 2: I think that all relationships are always evolving and to 289 00:14:31,880 --> 00:14:33,920 Speaker 2: think and this is where a lot of problems with 290 00:14:34,040 --> 00:14:37,520 Speaker 2: relationships start with parents. The dynamic between parents and children 291 00:14:37,920 --> 00:14:41,120 Speaker 2: is that you always have to look at relationships as evolving. 292 00:14:41,240 --> 00:14:43,760 Speaker 2: If you accuse someone of you've changed, it's like, well, 293 00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:46,840 Speaker 2: that's inevitable, of course they've changed. Everyone's going to change. Yeah, 294 00:14:46,880 --> 00:14:49,480 Speaker 2: and when I look at my relationship with my partner, 295 00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:53,000 Speaker 2: I know that we're going to go through many relationships 296 00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:55,480 Speaker 2: within this one relationship. Who will be when we're forty 297 00:14:55,560 --> 00:14:57,320 Speaker 2: is not who we were when we met, And it's 298 00:14:57,360 --> 00:15:01,200 Speaker 2: your job to try your best to evolve together, you know. 299 00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:03,560 Speaker 2: But to think I never changed, you changed, and this 300 00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:05,760 Speaker 2: is why the marriage broke down, which happens all the time, 301 00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:09,080 Speaker 2: or with parents and kids, it's like, well, isn't that 302 00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:11,200 Speaker 2: what we're supposed to do. Aren't we supposed to evolve 303 00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:13,560 Speaker 2: and change? And that can happen for the worst as well, 304 00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:17,040 Speaker 2: you know, with someone getting sick, someone having you know, 305 00:15:17,280 --> 00:15:21,520 Speaker 2: some disorder. You've got to find a way to come 306 00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:24,200 Speaker 2: into that next phase of the relationship and it will 307 00:15:24,240 --> 00:15:24,680 Speaker 2: be different. 308 00:15:25,160 --> 00:15:27,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's actually it's really hard when that happens. I 309 00:15:27,120 --> 00:15:31,240 Speaker 1: think because we all like to talk about unconditional love, 310 00:15:31,280 --> 00:15:34,640 Speaker 1: and unconditional love sounds brilliant, and I do think it's possible. 311 00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:38,600 Speaker 1: But I think, especially as you begin to realize that 312 00:15:38,720 --> 00:15:42,120 Speaker 1: your parents are human too, we see them as being 313 00:15:42,160 --> 00:15:44,840 Speaker 1: on this pedestal for a lot of our lives. So long, yeah, 314 00:15:44,880 --> 00:15:47,280 Speaker 1: for so long. And I think that all of us 315 00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:50,160 Speaker 1: have a moment, and I'm sure you have one where 316 00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:56,000 Speaker 1: you were like, oh, my parent is like my mom, 317 00:15:56,400 --> 00:15:59,560 Speaker 1: my dad is this is their first time being alive 318 00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:02,440 Speaker 1: as well, like they are figuring all of this out 319 00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:04,600 Speaker 1: at the same time as me. They're just a little 320 00:16:04,640 --> 00:16:07,240 Speaker 1: bit further along. So true, And it's so I think 321 00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:11,520 Speaker 1: that's difficult when you see them go through hard periods 322 00:16:11,840 --> 00:16:14,360 Speaker 1: and maybe it's like hard periods in your parents marriage. 323 00:16:14,400 --> 00:16:17,360 Speaker 1: Maybe it's like how your relationship with your parent is 324 00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:18,800 Speaker 1: going to adapt post. 325 00:16:18,520 --> 00:16:22,320 Speaker 2: Divorce, like exactly, and seeing them suffer and seeing them 326 00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:25,720 Speaker 2: overcome things, and being like, wow, you were this this 327 00:16:25,880 --> 00:16:28,960 Speaker 2: untouchable thing when I was a kid who knew everything, 328 00:16:29,480 --> 00:16:33,120 Speaker 2: and now I'm realizing that, you know, I'm soon going 329 00:16:33,160 --> 00:16:34,560 Speaker 2: to be the age that you were at, you know, 330 00:16:34,600 --> 00:16:36,520 Speaker 2: and you just start having it's like, wow, how are 331 00:16:36,560 --> 00:16:38,600 Speaker 2: you parenting? And I'm that age now? And how you know, 332 00:16:38,640 --> 00:16:40,560 Speaker 2: It's just it blows your mind to realize you didn't 333 00:16:40,560 --> 00:16:42,360 Speaker 2: have it all figured out when I was a. 334 00:16:42,400 --> 00:16:45,720 Speaker 1: Kid, and maybe giving them that if it is like 335 00:16:45,800 --> 00:16:49,160 Speaker 1: the right decision for you, giving them that level of 336 00:16:49,200 --> 00:16:53,480 Speaker 1: like not just forgiveness, but like that that space to 337 00:16:53,480 --> 00:16:57,040 Speaker 1: make mistakes as much as you are still like you 338 00:16:57,120 --> 00:17:00,320 Speaker 1: think viewing it's not that you need to view your 339 00:17:00,320 --> 00:17:02,400 Speaker 1: parents as a friend, because I think that changes the 340 00:17:02,440 --> 00:17:05,760 Speaker 1: dydamic it does. It can be quite difficult, but viewing 341 00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:09,399 Speaker 1: them as just as fallible, just as like flawed as 342 00:17:09,480 --> 00:17:11,480 Speaker 1: you are, and the same way that you would want 343 00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:15,560 Speaker 1: other people to accept your mistakes, you should be willing 344 00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:19,440 Speaker 1: to accept a degree of their mistakes as well. Yeah, 345 00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:22,000 Speaker 1: I think that's really important. There are some instances though, 346 00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:23,680 Speaker 1: where that is not possible exactly. 347 00:17:24,000 --> 00:17:28,879 Speaker 2: Yeah, and you mentioned narcissists and narcissistic parents or in 348 00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:30,439 Speaker 2: laws is like a really difficult one. 349 00:17:30,480 --> 00:17:32,320 Speaker 1: I have a great episode on this, by the way, to. 350 00:17:32,240 --> 00:17:35,080 Speaker 2: Have a specific episode on that, because I did want 351 00:17:35,119 --> 00:17:36,880 Speaker 2: on narcissist and then I had all these people being 352 00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:38,760 Speaker 2: like what about mother in law? What about my mum? 353 00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:41,119 Speaker 2: What about my dad? And so I thought, okay, well 354 00:17:41,119 --> 00:17:42,480 Speaker 2: this absolutely. 355 00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:42,959 Speaker 1: I'll put it in the discription. 356 00:17:43,080 --> 00:17:46,359 Speaker 2: You hear a lot about narcissists in relationships, and normally 357 00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:49,240 Speaker 2: you'll hear it being the man who's the narcissist and 358 00:17:49,280 --> 00:17:50,840 Speaker 2: the woman who's dating it. But then when you hear 359 00:17:50,880 --> 00:17:53,840 Speaker 2: about because you can have just as many female as male, 360 00:17:53,880 --> 00:17:55,600 Speaker 2: it's hard to put a number on it because a 361 00:17:55,600 --> 00:17:57,720 Speaker 2: lot of people who are narcissists aren't going and getting 362 00:17:57,760 --> 00:18:02,760 Speaker 2: diagnosed assists. None of them probably extreme, not probably, it's 363 00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:06,880 Speaker 2: definitely extremely underdiagnosed. But that's when you see it's like, oh, 364 00:18:06,920 --> 00:18:08,960 Speaker 2: this is across all genders. You know, this doesn't matter, 365 00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:13,680 Speaker 2: you could. Narcissistic parents are a huge one. And the 366 00:18:14,480 --> 00:18:17,640 Speaker 2: weird thing is that often the child, so say you're 367 00:18:17,680 --> 00:18:20,560 Speaker 2: dating someone and their parents are clearly narcissists, often the 368 00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:23,400 Speaker 2: person you're dating doesn't realize that. They're just like, oh, 369 00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:26,399 Speaker 2: they're just difficult. Oh they make all these excuses similar 370 00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:28,160 Speaker 2: to what we were just talking about before, where your 371 00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:30,360 Speaker 2: parents are these you want them to be perfect. They're 372 00:18:30,359 --> 00:18:33,600 Speaker 2: your parents, You are them, you know, you're you're That's why, 373 00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:36,639 Speaker 2: like it hurts to see your parents criticize the other 374 00:18:36,680 --> 00:18:38,399 Speaker 2: parent because you're like, you're criticizing half of me, you know. 375 00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:40,919 Speaker 2: It's it's really that's why children suffer and divorce if 376 00:18:40,960 --> 00:18:44,240 Speaker 2: it's if it's a horrible divorce because they feel torn, 377 00:18:44,560 --> 00:18:47,919 Speaker 2: you know. And so when you when you're trying to 378 00:18:48,080 --> 00:18:51,720 Speaker 2: let your partner realize without being aggressive, how do you 379 00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:55,160 Speaker 2: get your partner to really identify that their parents are narcissistic? 380 00:18:56,000 --> 00:18:58,040 Speaker 2: Sometimes they see it, sometimes they don't. And when they 381 00:18:58,040 --> 00:19:00,399 Speaker 2: don't see it, it's really hard to have a gate that. 382 00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:04,119 Speaker 2: So I always say, don't straight up say to someone 383 00:19:04,480 --> 00:19:07,080 Speaker 2: your parents a narcissist, your mother is a narcissist. You 384 00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:10,040 Speaker 2: I always start with, always put the question back on them, 385 00:19:10,160 --> 00:19:13,280 Speaker 2: like does this behavior happen all the time? When you know, 386 00:19:13,359 --> 00:19:16,400 Speaker 2: to start start getting them to do some self discovery. 387 00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:18,480 Speaker 2: When was the first time they did something like that? 388 00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:19,760 Speaker 2: Or when was the first time they put you in 389 00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:22,240 Speaker 2: that position? And do they do that with all your siblings? 390 00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:24,840 Speaker 2: And you just start like just just questions and then 391 00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:27,240 Speaker 2: they're like, oh wow, oh yeah, right, that's not weird 392 00:19:27,359 --> 00:19:29,359 Speaker 2: and then they figure it out for themselves. You just 393 00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:32,000 Speaker 2: got to get dig under the surface. And then it's 394 00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:35,120 Speaker 2: then you create an environment where it's comfortable for them 395 00:19:35,119 --> 00:19:39,600 Speaker 2: to talk about it and never ever character assassinate your 396 00:19:39,600 --> 00:19:43,000 Speaker 2: partner's parents. No matter how annoyed you are, because again 397 00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:47,679 Speaker 2: you're insulting them, you know, like obviously you're not meaning to, 398 00:19:47,840 --> 00:19:49,960 Speaker 2: but that's how they perceive it as It's like the 399 00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:51,640 Speaker 2: whole thing of like, oh, I'm allowed to talk shit 400 00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:54,399 Speaker 2: about this person, but the moment you do, it's not okay. 401 00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:56,320 Speaker 2: You know, like you know what, Like you'll break up 402 00:19:56,359 --> 00:19:58,440 Speaker 2: with someone and then you're allowed to say everything under 403 00:19:58,440 --> 00:19:59,879 Speaker 2: the sun about that person. But then if someone in 404 00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:02,520 Speaker 2: you're like, oh what, You're like, I love them? 405 00:20:02,520 --> 00:20:04,760 Speaker 1: So what does that say about me? Yeah? What do 406 00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:07,159 Speaker 1: you do? What? You are you judging my judgment or 407 00:20:07,359 --> 00:20:09,520 Speaker 1: my choices and you know that they're right. Same thing 408 00:20:09,520 --> 00:20:11,800 Speaker 1: with siblings, you know they're right. Yes, it's like I'm 409 00:20:11,840 --> 00:20:14,480 Speaker 1: allowed to say whatever I want about my sisters a minute, 410 00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:16,200 Speaker 1: like they come to me again one of their friends 411 00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:19,200 Speaker 1: said something, Oh my god, I'm like, I fucking got you, Dad. 412 00:20:19,600 --> 00:20:24,639 Speaker 2: Like say that rude, But then you can say it, 413 00:20:24,720 --> 00:20:27,160 Speaker 2: you know. It's kind of that dynamic. So I think 414 00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:30,760 Speaker 2: definitely tread carefully, but I think that if you can 415 00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:33,840 Speaker 2: set up a really comfortable open space to have a 416 00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:38,280 Speaker 2: conversation about the behaviors off your parents always said, like 417 00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:40,600 Speaker 2: turn it into speaking about the behavior. I'm not them 418 00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:44,280 Speaker 2: as a person. This behavior is unhealthy, this behavior is unacceptable. 419 00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:47,000 Speaker 2: I'm going to put a boundary against this interaction or 420 00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:51,280 Speaker 2: this situation so it doesn't happen again. And then you're 421 00:20:51,320 --> 00:20:54,080 Speaker 2: not saying they're an asshole, they're an idiot, they're fucked 422 00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:55,440 Speaker 2: in the head, you know, because if you start saying 423 00:20:55,480 --> 00:20:58,120 Speaker 2: stuff like that, then that's when it comes across as 424 00:20:58,119 --> 00:21:00,720 Speaker 2: you like genuinely. Even if you do, it makes it 425 00:21:00,720 --> 00:21:03,159 Speaker 2: look like you hate their parents. And it's how do 426 00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:06,679 Speaker 2: I navigate this carefully? Because if your partner didn't have 427 00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:08,720 Speaker 2: a good enough relationship with their parents, that wouldn't be 428 00:21:08,720 --> 00:21:10,280 Speaker 2: an issue because the only reason you say your in 429 00:21:10,359 --> 00:21:12,960 Speaker 2: laws is because your partner has a good relationship with 430 00:21:12,960 --> 00:21:17,200 Speaker 2: their in laws, you know. So the difficulty in navigating 431 00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:20,200 Speaker 2: it is when your partner has that relationship and you've 432 00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:21,640 Speaker 2: got a slot in there somehow. 433 00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:26,679 Speaker 1: It's also really interesting because it kind of shows this 434 00:21:26,720 --> 00:21:29,920 Speaker 1: weird distinction, right, not so much a distinction, but somewhat 435 00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:33,000 Speaker 1: of an innate competition as we get older between the 436 00:21:33,000 --> 00:21:34,880 Speaker 1: family we grew up with and the family that we're 437 00:21:34,920 --> 00:21:37,679 Speaker 1: going on to create. And I think that sometimes It's 438 00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:39,359 Speaker 1: very easy for people to be like, well, this is 439 00:21:39,359 --> 00:21:42,880 Speaker 1: my family now I need to prioritize my partner and 440 00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:46,000 Speaker 1: our future together. But that's also a really hard distinction 441 00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:48,080 Speaker 1: for some people to make. There is still that innate 442 00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:51,760 Speaker 1: loyalty to the people that have raised them. And maybe 443 00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:56,760 Speaker 1: you are someone who is recognizing for yourself that your 444 00:21:56,800 --> 00:22:01,280 Speaker 1: own parents are like that. How do you go about 445 00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:04,800 Speaker 1: I guess, or it might not even be narcissism. It 446 00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:08,280 Speaker 1: might be that in the past things were not as 447 00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:11,840 Speaker 1: healthy as they are now. They might still be unhealthy, toxic, 448 00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:14,000 Speaker 1: whatever label you want to give it. How do you 449 00:22:14,040 --> 00:22:18,000 Speaker 1: go about having those difficult conversations once you have identified 450 00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:21,960 Speaker 1: and done some of that exploration and realize that this person, 451 00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:25,199 Speaker 1: although you may love them, is perhaps not a good 452 00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:26,560 Speaker 1: figure in your life right now. 453 00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:30,919 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's really hard, as we all know. Like I 454 00:22:30,960 --> 00:22:36,000 Speaker 2: think it's really hard to bring up to somebody that 455 00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:40,920 Speaker 2: they to criticize their parenting because for a parent, their 456 00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:46,000 Speaker 2: biggest job, their biggest accomplishment is raising a human more 457 00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:48,760 Speaker 2: than one human, you know, And to go in and 458 00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:50,960 Speaker 2: criticize them, it's so hard to do it, to do 459 00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:54,480 Speaker 2: it like delicately, and even if you do it in 460 00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:56,119 Speaker 2: the most delicate way. They're not going to take it 461 00:22:56,119 --> 00:22:59,200 Speaker 2: in the best way possible. But I do still think 462 00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:02,879 Speaker 2: obviously it's important to do so. And when setting a boundary, 463 00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:07,119 Speaker 2: when saying something, the best way to start is you 464 00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:11,720 Speaker 2: say I no longer feel comfortable with this, or you 465 00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:14,120 Speaker 2: make it about you. Every time I set a boundary, 466 00:23:14,119 --> 00:23:16,119 Speaker 2: I make sure that it's about me, because if I 467 00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:19,680 Speaker 2: say you do this, and you do that, and you 468 00:23:19,880 --> 00:23:22,080 Speaker 2: you you, you, you, then it feels like it's an 469 00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:24,800 Speaker 2: attack and it feels like I'm trying to control how 470 00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:27,600 Speaker 2: they're behaving. But if I say, listen, next time this 471 00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:31,560 Speaker 2: situation arises, I don't want to be here if you're 472 00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:33,320 Speaker 2: going to start yelling at me, or I don't want 473 00:23:33,359 --> 00:23:34,800 Speaker 2: to you know, you try and just make it a 474 00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:36,520 Speaker 2: bit more about I'm going to draw a line here. 475 00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:39,919 Speaker 2: I've got a friend of mine and she had a 476 00:23:39,960 --> 00:23:43,879 Speaker 2: really unhealthy relationship with her partner's mum. And I just 477 00:23:43,920 --> 00:23:47,280 Speaker 2: said to her, you're going over every Sunday and you're 478 00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:52,080 Speaker 2: spending like ten hours or eight hours, ten hours and 479 00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:54,040 Speaker 2: just so unpleasant the environment. 480 00:23:54,119 --> 00:23:55,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, I can imagine. 481 00:23:55,040 --> 00:23:58,080 Speaker 2: And then I said, firstly, why don't you draw a 482 00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:00,080 Speaker 2: line and say I don't have to go every Sunday 483 00:24:00,359 --> 00:24:03,040 Speaker 2: for starters. I don't. I'm my own person, I'm an adult, 484 00:24:03,400 --> 00:24:05,080 Speaker 2: and when I do go, I can either come a 485 00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:07,199 Speaker 2: little bit later or I can leave a bit earlier. 486 00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:11,960 Speaker 2: And then that just shows like it's it shows a 487 00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:15,439 Speaker 2: level of independence, and it's like an unsaid rule of 488 00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:18,199 Speaker 2: like I can control myself here, Like I want to 489 00:24:18,200 --> 00:24:21,160 Speaker 2: come and see you, but I'm not pandering to everything 490 00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:23,400 Speaker 2: that you want. You know, just because my partner wants 491 00:24:23,440 --> 00:24:25,320 Speaker 2: to be here for ten hours, I don't have to. 492 00:24:25,680 --> 00:24:27,840 Speaker 2: And it's not about being rude. You've come in, you 493 00:24:27,840 --> 00:24:29,600 Speaker 2: give them the time of day, you have the conversation, 494 00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:31,480 Speaker 2: you're putting in the effort. But then you're saying, okay, 495 00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:34,879 Speaker 2: so good to see you guys, say yah my, just 496 00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:36,440 Speaker 2: like remove yourself from there. 497 00:24:36,480 --> 00:24:38,199 Speaker 1: Yeah, no question about it, Like no, I will not 498 00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:39,159 Speaker 1: stay coffee. 499 00:24:39,040 --> 00:24:42,160 Speaker 2: Because sometimes the hard thing is that sometimes you will 500 00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:44,920 Speaker 2: have the best idea for the best conversation and you'll 501 00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:46,480 Speaker 2: say and it's just not going to be taken in 502 00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:48,440 Speaker 2: the right way, and they're just going to feel attacked. 503 00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:52,040 Speaker 2: Sometimes a conversation cannot be had, and the only thing 504 00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:54,040 Speaker 2: you can do is Okay, given what I've got, like 505 00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:55,960 Speaker 2: given what's in front of me, I have to work 506 00:24:56,000 --> 00:24:57,960 Speaker 2: with what I've got, and the best way to work 507 00:24:57,960 --> 00:25:00,639 Speaker 2: with what I've got is to limit the interaction. So 508 00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:02,600 Speaker 2: when I'm there, I'll just give it my all. But 509 00:25:02,680 --> 00:25:05,800 Speaker 2: it's small doses, and then you find I can actually 510 00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:07,840 Speaker 2: handle these people in small doses. Like a lot of people, 511 00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:09,399 Speaker 2: they're like, oh, I love my in laws because I 512 00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:12,119 Speaker 2: live three hours flying off right away, you know, so 513 00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:13,880 Speaker 2: we go there, I just don't get my time. 514 00:25:13,920 --> 00:25:14,600 Speaker 1: I do my best. 515 00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:16,960 Speaker 2: We don't like, we clash, but it's fine, and then 516 00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:19,000 Speaker 2: I leave. If they were my neighbors, i'd hate them. 517 00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:21,880 Speaker 2: So it's that kind of So how can you how 518 00:25:21,880 --> 00:25:24,320 Speaker 2: can you navigate that if you live in the same city, 519 00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:27,159 Speaker 2: Just like bring it back a little bit, feel like 520 00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:30,480 Speaker 2: you're a little bit more in control of yourself, And 521 00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:34,159 Speaker 2: I think that will really help you feel like, you know, 522 00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:36,520 Speaker 2: not so much anxiety when you then have to go 523 00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:39,960 Speaker 2: spend time with potential in laws or even your own 524 00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:43,680 Speaker 2: parents who might be causing you so much so much stress. 525 00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:47,959 Speaker 2: And then but then you've got like the really unhealthy relationships. 526 00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:51,480 Speaker 2: And I always say, like, just because you are tied 527 00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:55,040 Speaker 2: together by blood. No one has a ticket into your 528 00:25:55,080 --> 00:25:57,280 Speaker 2: life for free. No one's got this golden ticket into 529 00:25:57,320 --> 00:25:59,639 Speaker 2: your life. People have to earn their place in your 530 00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:01,320 Speaker 2: life just you have to earn your place in someone 531 00:26:01,320 --> 00:26:04,560 Speaker 2: else's life. You can't go around disrespecting someone indefinitely and 532 00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:06,320 Speaker 2: expect for your seat to still be there. 533 00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:06,680 Speaker 1: Person. 534 00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:09,360 Speaker 2: So, if it means cutting out someone because they treat 535 00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:12,399 Speaker 2: you like shit, cut the person out, you know. 536 00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:15,080 Speaker 1: And I think that there's some steps. I totally agree 537 00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:17,040 Speaker 1: with that as well. I think there are some steps 538 00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:19,400 Speaker 1: to take beforehand. The one that you just the example 539 00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:23,480 Speaker 1: that you just gave is like re establishing your independence 540 00:26:23,680 --> 00:26:25,920 Speaker 1: as an individual that goes for your in laws and 541 00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:28,480 Speaker 1: then also for your own parents, even for like sibling 542 00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:33,800 Speaker 1: relationships that are quite draining or codependent or any form 543 00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:37,639 Speaker 1: of family relationship. Maintaining a sense of independence when that 544 00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:39,359 Speaker 1: person is trying to take more from you than you're 545 00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:41,760 Speaker 1: willing to give as a huge one. But I do 546 00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:46,480 Speaker 1: think there is something to be said about setting boundaries 547 00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:50,840 Speaker 1: and seeing how people respond. Sometimes the outcome of a 548 00:26:50,840 --> 00:26:54,679 Speaker 1: boundary is not that their behavior change changes, but that 549 00:26:54,920 --> 00:26:57,320 Speaker 1: you see that they're incapable of doing it. Yeah, that 550 00:26:57,440 --> 00:26:59,399 Speaker 1: is something that I've started to realize where it's like, 551 00:26:59,680 --> 00:27:01,280 Speaker 1: I think we often talk about, oh, you need to 552 00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:03,639 Speaker 1: set a boundary, and we are like, oh, and then 553 00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:05,760 Speaker 1: immediately assume that that person is going to beat that 554 00:27:05,800 --> 00:27:08,040 Speaker 1: boundary once it's been spoken and into existence. 555 00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:09,760 Speaker 2: That's right, and they don't all that. 556 00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:13,640 Speaker 1: Time, and that is actually just as might be disappointing, 557 00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:16,119 Speaker 1: but it's just as valuable to you to teach you 558 00:27:16,119 --> 00:27:17,040 Speaker 1: about their behavior. 559 00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:20,200 Speaker 2: It is. And sometimes setting a boundary doesn't mean that 560 00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:22,520 Speaker 2: it's going to be respected. But you vocalized where your 561 00:27:22,560 --> 00:27:25,680 Speaker 2: limit is, and now it's not this arbitrary thing. It's 562 00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:27,680 Speaker 2: like I've now told you where that limit is. Whether 563 00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:29,240 Speaker 2: you respect it or not, it's up to me how 564 00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:31,879 Speaker 2: to respond to you respecting. But I always say a 565 00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:35,560 Speaker 2: boundary is not a boundary unless there are consequences. You know, 566 00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:37,119 Speaker 2: you can't say this is my boundary and have it 567 00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:38,880 Speaker 2: stopped all of it every time. It's not a boundary. 568 00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:42,840 Speaker 2: It's your your you wish it was your boundary, But 569 00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:46,360 Speaker 2: unless there is a consequence for that boundary being crossed, 570 00:27:46,680 --> 00:27:47,920 Speaker 2: it's not a boundary. 571 00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:51,840 Speaker 1: Oh that's such a good point. I think about this 572 00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:56,160 Speaker 1: like in relation to a family member of mine who 573 00:27:57,320 --> 00:28:01,440 Speaker 1: has a real problem with making comments about people's appearance times, 574 00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:03,920 Speaker 1: which I think is a big one. Oh my god, 575 00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:07,520 Speaker 1: I could get it, like different generation like this. I 576 00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:10,760 Speaker 1: totally understand that that's they think that's fine, but I 577 00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:12,919 Speaker 1: don't understand it anymore because I think that we have 578 00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:15,560 Speaker 1: been very clear with them. My siblings have also been 579 00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:17,960 Speaker 1: involved in this. I mean, like, no, you cannot make 580 00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:22,280 Speaker 1: those comments anymore. And when you said a boundary is 581 00:28:22,320 --> 00:28:25,399 Speaker 1: not a boundary without consequences, we were for years being like, 582 00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:28,240 Speaker 1: please don't say that, Please don't say that. I'm uncomfortable 583 00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:30,560 Speaker 1: with you saying that. It was only when we were like, 584 00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:32,520 Speaker 1: if you say that, we won't be coming here anymore 585 00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:36,240 Speaker 1: exactly that they were like oh, or like okay, I 586 00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:40,040 Speaker 1: really did enjoy that I'm leaving. Now that they started. 587 00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:42,840 Speaker 2: To listen to stand up and leave, that's a huge statement, 588 00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:46,240 Speaker 2: like it's that uncomfortable for me. You've made this so unpleasant. 589 00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:50,760 Speaker 2: I'd rather not be here literally, And that's when it's like, oh, wow, 590 00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:53,520 Speaker 2: this is that's when they really Unfortunately it has to 591 00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:56,000 Speaker 2: get to that point, but that's when they realize, oh 592 00:28:56,080 --> 00:28:58,920 Speaker 2: my god, the fact that they're willing to leave. That's 593 00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:00,640 Speaker 2: really not okay, you know. 594 00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:03,920 Speaker 1: It really and I think it was, and it was uncomfortable. 595 00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:06,480 Speaker 1: It was uncomfortable being in those moments, but it was 596 00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:09,280 Speaker 1: also uncomfortable walking away from them, of course, because I 597 00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:12,720 Speaker 1: think that that's the other thing. People, The reason that 598 00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:16,680 Speaker 1: we cannot always set boundaries that work is because we 599 00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:20,440 Speaker 1: think that setting a boundary is just a matter of 600 00:29:20,440 --> 00:29:23,040 Speaker 1: of just like you said, of just saying setting an 601 00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:25,640 Speaker 1: intention for how we want to be treated, rather than 602 00:29:25,680 --> 00:29:27,880 Speaker 1: actually instigating it. So what are some tips for being 603 00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:31,680 Speaker 1: like firstly identifying a boundary, secondly really sticking to it, 604 00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:35,120 Speaker 1: sticking to it and enforcing it as well. 605 00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:37,080 Speaker 2: So there's two because you can look at it in 606 00:29:37,120 --> 00:29:38,440 Speaker 2: I mean, you can call it a boundary, but in 607 00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:40,760 Speaker 2: your head you could say, look, I could request that 608 00:29:40,880 --> 00:29:43,560 Speaker 2: someone speak to me a certain way, you know, but 609 00:29:43,880 --> 00:29:46,600 Speaker 2: ultimately I've just decided that no matter how they tret me, 610 00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:49,440 Speaker 2: I'm never walking away. But I could just request it. 611 00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:52,080 Speaker 2: That's one thing, and that's where you have zero expectations 612 00:29:52,400 --> 00:29:53,960 Speaker 2: of the response and you'd just be like, all right, 613 00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:56,520 Speaker 2: whatever comes, I'm just gonna accept. The second one is 614 00:29:56,520 --> 00:29:59,960 Speaker 2: the boundary where you're like okay, only set a boundary 615 00:30:00,080 --> 00:30:02,280 Speaker 2: when you know what it looks like once it's crossed. 616 00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:05,160 Speaker 2: So when you say I'm setting this boundary, what now 617 00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:07,280 Speaker 2: happens if they cross that boundary? What am I going 618 00:30:07,360 --> 00:30:11,160 Speaker 2: to do? Because I've now put an expectation. A boundary 619 00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:14,720 Speaker 2: has an expectation. A request hopefully doesn't like you would 620 00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:17,360 Speaker 2: like them to start treating you nicely, but also you're like, 621 00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:19,440 Speaker 2: could you please, and their answer could be known and 622 00:30:19,440 --> 00:30:24,080 Speaker 2: you're like, okay, sick. Whereas the boundary, you're like, all right, 623 00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:26,479 Speaker 2: if I'm going to set this boundary, I have to 624 00:30:26,560 --> 00:30:28,959 Speaker 2: be willing to know what it looks like if they 625 00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:31,320 Speaker 2: cross it, and know exactly what my actions will be. 626 00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:33,440 Speaker 2: Make a game plan for yourself. Don't because then if 627 00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:35,000 Speaker 2: you go and say this is my boundary and then 628 00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:37,040 Speaker 2: they cross it, then you're like oh, and you choke up, 629 00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:38,880 Speaker 2: and then the pressures on yourself and you feel terrible, 630 00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:42,160 Speaker 2: and then you feel like you've been undermined. 631 00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:45,360 Speaker 1: Yes once again, and you're like, oh, it just hurts 632 00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:48,120 Speaker 1: the relationships, and then your confidence is shot and you're like, well, 633 00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:49,920 Speaker 1: now my word means nothing because now if I try 634 00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:51,520 Speaker 1: and set another boundary, they didn't respect that one. 635 00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:53,640 Speaker 2: They're not going to respect this one. So before you 636 00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:55,160 Speaker 2: go in with the boundary, give yourself a bit of 637 00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:57,239 Speaker 2: for PP talk and be like, Okay, if I'm going 638 00:30:57,280 --> 00:31:00,239 Speaker 2: to set this boundary, what happens when they cross? What 639 00:31:00,280 --> 00:31:02,280 Speaker 2: will my actions be? I think the best one is 640 00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:04,520 Speaker 2: to remove yourself from the situation and don't make it 641 00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:06,880 Speaker 2: this universal like I'm never coming back. No, just saying 642 00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:10,440 Speaker 2: I'm like you like you did. It's something simple as 643 00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:12,600 Speaker 2: when this happens, I'm not going to be in this space. 644 00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:14,160 Speaker 2: So if you say it in the first minute of 645 00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:16,160 Speaker 2: me arriving, I leave. If you say it after an hour, 646 00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:18,120 Speaker 2: I leave. I'm just not going to be here if 647 00:31:18,160 --> 00:31:20,640 Speaker 2: you're going to talk to me like that. And you 648 00:31:20,640 --> 00:31:22,640 Speaker 2: can also say and you'll realize that the more you 649 00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:25,080 Speaker 2: do it, the less I'm going to want to prioritize 650 00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:27,840 Speaker 2: hanging out with you versus hanging out with another invitation 651 00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:31,080 Speaker 2: that I might have had. And you know, people, whether 652 00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:33,000 Speaker 2: you like it or not, people do have a hierarchy 653 00:31:33,000 --> 00:31:34,480 Speaker 2: of who they want to spend time with, and it's 654 00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:37,400 Speaker 2: the ones that they feel the most comfortable in themselves around, 655 00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:38,880 Speaker 2: and they're the people you put at the top of 656 00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:41,320 Speaker 2: that list and no matter how close they are or 657 00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:44,400 Speaker 2: not to you as far as blood goes. So I 658 00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:46,880 Speaker 2: think if you can, if you feel comfortable enough to 659 00:31:46,880 --> 00:31:50,480 Speaker 2: be like, okay, if this happens, I'm walking away. 660 00:31:50,640 --> 00:31:52,680 Speaker 1: Then set that boundary and you don't even have to 661 00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:54,160 Speaker 1: say it, Like you don't even have to be like 662 00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:55,800 Speaker 1: I have to know. So I think about this in 663 00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:57,600 Speaker 1: times of a story, and another friend of mine said 664 00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:02,520 Speaker 1: a big one is comments about not just appearance, but 665 00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:05,959 Speaker 1: comments about any kind of choice that you're making, your 666 00:32:06,000 --> 00:32:09,440 Speaker 1: lifestyle or even things that like your sexuality, things that 667 00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:12,120 Speaker 1: you don't have a choice around, where it's like, what 668 00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:13,560 Speaker 1: are you trying to do here? When you're trying to 669 00:32:13,640 --> 00:32:16,960 Speaker 1: change my mind? Like, yeah, that's ridiculous. Like, I think 670 00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:20,719 Speaker 1: that's a big one. The other one is people who 671 00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:25,040 Speaker 1: are compulsive liars or controlling, So people who are like 672 00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:28,360 Speaker 1: can you do this now? Or like who are Yeah. 673 00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:30,200 Speaker 1: I think that's a huge one, where they're like, oh, 674 00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:31,760 Speaker 1: if you're in my house, you have to do X, 675 00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:32,760 Speaker 1: Y and Z yes. 676 00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:37,400 Speaker 2: Controlling yeah, And I find that controlling and compulsive liars. 677 00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:39,240 Speaker 2: I think both of those things will fall under the 678 00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:42,320 Speaker 2: category of I think when people can't control themselves, they 679 00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:45,200 Speaker 2: control everyone else around them. Yes, So the less control 680 00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:47,840 Speaker 2: you have over who you are and your circumstances, you 681 00:32:47,880 --> 00:32:50,080 Speaker 2: try and control everyone. You look at those relationships where 682 00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:52,959 Speaker 2: they're so controlling. These people are not happy with the 683 00:32:52,960 --> 00:32:54,880 Speaker 2: life they've created for themselves. So they're like, given that 684 00:32:54,920 --> 00:32:57,200 Speaker 2: I feel like I'm out of control in my circumstances, 685 00:32:57,600 --> 00:33:01,000 Speaker 2: I'm going to control you, yeah, and feel like I'm empowered. Yeah, 686 00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:02,440 Speaker 2: you know. And the same goes for that, you know, 687 00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:04,680 Speaker 2: like getting people to do things for them. You know 688 00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:06,800 Speaker 2: this has to be done. You've come into my space 689 00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:09,000 Speaker 2: and now you've got to do this. It's all about 690 00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:11,160 Speaker 2: a lack of control in their own life and a 691 00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:14,800 Speaker 2: lack of satisfaction as well. I feel that's so sad. 692 00:33:14,960 --> 00:33:17,920 Speaker 1: It's like a displacement, right, Like yeah, classic Frodian. 693 00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:19,560 Speaker 2: Feel. 694 00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:22,840 Speaker 1: You're like, oh yeah, And that's the thing, right, If 695 00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:25,800 Speaker 1: they're acting in that way, you can just walk away 696 00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:29,120 Speaker 1: without even being like I'm leaving now, like and text 697 00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:32,520 Speaker 1: them later, just be like, Okay, my absence is a 698 00:33:32,600 --> 00:33:35,440 Speaker 1: is a message here and hopefully they pick up on it. 699 00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:37,600 Speaker 1: If you don't have the confidence to actually say that, 700 00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:38,440 Speaker 1: and I think, yeah. 701 00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:40,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a huge one. What you just said with 702 00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:41,560 Speaker 2: the confidence, because I think a lot of people think, 703 00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:42,600 Speaker 2: on top of the fact that I've got to do 704 00:33:42,640 --> 00:33:44,280 Speaker 2: this action, I then have to say something. And a 705 00:33:44,280 --> 00:33:46,560 Speaker 2: lot of people they've not lived a life where they've 706 00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:49,360 Speaker 2: just confidently said things whenever they thought it, and it's 707 00:33:49,480 --> 00:33:51,400 Speaker 2: very difficult for a confident person. It's like, I'll just 708 00:33:51,440 --> 00:33:53,360 Speaker 2: say it, But it's not like that for a lot 709 00:33:53,360 --> 00:33:54,880 Speaker 2: of people. What do you mean you want me to 710 00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:57,000 Speaker 2: stand up to my parents for the first time ever? 711 00:33:57,360 --> 00:33:59,480 Speaker 2: You know, it's it's daunting. So, like you said, you 712 00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:03,120 Speaker 2: don't have to say something. You can just leave And 713 00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:06,080 Speaker 2: I always say a text message, a letter, handwritten letter 714 00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:08,440 Speaker 2: in the mail, but whatever to get your point across 715 00:34:08,440 --> 00:34:11,000 Speaker 2: where you're cool, calm and collected. Yes, is the best 716 00:34:11,040 --> 00:34:13,360 Speaker 2: way to do it. If you can do it in person, great, 717 00:34:13,440 --> 00:34:17,279 Speaker 2: But most people can't because they're like, yeah, it's anxiety. 718 00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:20,120 Speaker 2: It's so stressful. You've got all these good things to 719 00:34:20,120 --> 00:34:21,560 Speaker 2: say the moment you get home. Why didn't I say 720 00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:24,799 Speaker 2: all these things? You know, just remove yourself, cool, like, 721 00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:28,160 Speaker 2: calm down, write everything you need to say and then 722 00:34:28,239 --> 00:34:30,960 Speaker 2: read it later, not don't send it straight away. Yeah, 723 00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:34,319 Speaker 2: they're like that a little bit and then send it. 724 00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:35,400 Speaker 2: You know, that might be away. 725 00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:36,960 Speaker 1: The other thing that you said there where I was 726 00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:40,359 Speaker 1: like that is another really good reason to do that 727 00:34:40,520 --> 00:34:43,759 Speaker 1: is because in the moment, like you said, you are 728 00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:46,880 Speaker 1: probably going to be experiencing a great deal of anxiety. 729 00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:48,840 Speaker 1: Is one of the first times you've ever been like 730 00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:54,239 Speaker 1: to a family member, Hey, not acceptable. Sometimes people can 731 00:34:54,280 --> 00:34:57,120 Speaker 1: be really reactive to that, and that is going to 732 00:34:57,280 --> 00:34:59,719 Speaker 1: escalate to the point where you are really reactive to 733 00:34:59,760 --> 00:35:03,160 Speaker 1: how they've responded, and people get really worked up. You're 734 00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:06,920 Speaker 1: going to feel like your sense of control over the situation, 735 00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:09,959 Speaker 1: your ability to speak up for yourself is slipping. Yeah, 736 00:35:09,960 --> 00:35:13,279 Speaker 1: because this person is kind of using emotional warfare at 737 00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:14,680 Speaker 1: that point, you. 738 00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:19,960 Speaker 2: Know, intentionally, unintentionally, Yeah, And like, anger is a secondary 739 00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:24,840 Speaker 2: emotion to an initial underlying emotion. So when someone gets angry, 740 00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:27,279 Speaker 2: if you're also angry, it's game over as far as 741 00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:29,480 Speaker 2: where you can go from there. Because if two people 742 00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:32,719 Speaker 2: are angry, they're actually using anger to try and communicate 743 00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:35,560 Speaker 2: the fact that they feel abandoned, that they feel rejected, 744 00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:38,279 Speaker 2: that they feel insecure, that they feel attacked, you know, 745 00:35:38,640 --> 00:35:42,080 Speaker 2: But it's anger, so it's aggressive and so you put 746 00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:45,200 Speaker 2: your wall up and respond with aggression, you get nowhere 747 00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:47,759 Speaker 2: and that's where you go through this like standoff and 748 00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:49,960 Speaker 2: you don't talk for days. It's just so when someone 749 00:35:49,960 --> 00:35:53,279 Speaker 2: gets angry, I always say, like, there's no talking to 750 00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:55,800 Speaker 2: someone who's angry. And if you have yet to slip 751 00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:59,279 Speaker 2: into anger, just remove yourself out of the way. Yeah, 752 00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:01,120 Speaker 2: And I'd be like, I'm down, because that would just 753 00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:05,320 Speaker 2: stir someonet more. Just say I'd rather talk about this, yeah, 754 00:36:05,360 --> 00:36:08,359 Speaker 2: And and to take ownership of it even if you're 755 00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:11,480 Speaker 2: not blowing up. I always advise you say something like, 756 00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:15,759 Speaker 2: let's talk about this when we've both calmed down, you know, 757 00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:19,840 Speaker 2: so you make it like we are hated. Let's just 758 00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:21,919 Speaker 2: not just you. Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, because I'm hated 759 00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:25,719 Speaker 2: in my head right now, you know. And so I think, yeah, 760 00:36:25,840 --> 00:36:28,120 Speaker 2: never respond to anger. It's just not worth it. And 761 00:36:29,080 --> 00:36:31,240 Speaker 2: pee and and as you would know, you know you, 762 00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:34,000 Speaker 2: when people are fired up, it's harder to be logic 763 00:36:34,080 --> 00:36:37,359 Speaker 2: to make a logical argument or a statement. You're emotional, 764 00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:41,359 Speaker 2: you're it's it's all reactive. You're not thinking proactively, you're 765 00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:45,360 Speaker 2: not reasoning. So that's why it would benefit them to 766 00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:47,719 Speaker 2: walk off and cool off for a bit and think about, Okay, 767 00:36:47,719 --> 00:36:48,880 Speaker 2: what am I actually feeling? 768 00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:52,160 Speaker 1: You know, especially if you're a sensitive person as well. Yeah, 769 00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:55,719 Speaker 1: that's if you're someone else's emotions. If you're an EmPATH, like, 770 00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:57,759 Speaker 1: you're going to pick up on those. You know, there's 771 00:36:57,800 --> 00:37:00,600 Speaker 1: no controlling that. When someone is like gotten to the 772 00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:03,640 Speaker 1: point where they can't manage their emotions, you are going 773 00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:04,879 Speaker 1: to pick up on that. You're going to. 774 00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:07,560 Speaker 2: Absorb that big time, big time, and then and it's paid, 775 00:37:07,560 --> 00:37:10,880 Speaker 2: it hurts, You're trying to protect yourself and it's just 776 00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:14,280 Speaker 2: a disaster. So I say, yeah, definitely step away. Like 777 00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:15,920 Speaker 2: like you said, you don't have to say anything in 778 00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:18,960 Speaker 2: the moment. You don't have to try and be this 779 00:37:19,040 --> 00:37:21,600 Speaker 2: really confident person if you haven't before, you don't have to. 780 00:37:22,080 --> 00:37:26,120 Speaker 2: You can just remove, simmer down, and then communicate in 781 00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:28,920 Speaker 2: the way that feels best, you know. Great advice. 782 00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:33,440 Speaker 1: The last thing that I really want to focus on 783 00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:36,080 Speaker 1: because I get a lot of questions about this, and 784 00:37:36,120 --> 00:37:39,240 Speaker 1: I know that it's not something that everyone is thinking about, 785 00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:41,960 Speaker 1: But for those that are, when do you think it 786 00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:45,920 Speaker 1: is time to go no contact with a family member? 787 00:37:46,680 --> 00:37:49,880 Speaker 2: I think I mean, by default, you're just always going 788 00:37:49,880 --> 00:37:52,440 Speaker 2: to give your family members like lots of chances, so 789 00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:54,920 Speaker 2: you'll already have a track record in place of how 790 00:37:54,920 --> 00:37:58,680 Speaker 2: many chances you've given this person. Then you know, because 791 00:37:58,960 --> 00:38:01,640 Speaker 2: and people will try to speak nicely, they'll try screaming, 792 00:38:01,680 --> 00:38:05,080 Speaker 2: they'll try you know, hey, if we start doing that, 793 00:38:05,120 --> 00:38:08,360 Speaker 2: you've probably already tried so many different ways you gifts, 794 00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:11,040 Speaker 2: You've tried doing it their way, You've tried doing it 795 00:38:11,040 --> 00:38:14,640 Speaker 2: your way. You've just tried everything normally. When you're ready 796 00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:17,080 Speaker 2: to be like I've got to walk away, you've exhausted 797 00:38:17,080 --> 00:38:21,759 Speaker 2: a lot of options. And I think that when it's 798 00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:25,279 Speaker 2: time to pull the plug on a relationship, you can 799 00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:28,799 Speaker 2: always leave the door open in the sense of these 800 00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:31,120 Speaker 2: have been all my problems with this relationship. And again, 801 00:38:31,160 --> 00:38:33,719 Speaker 2: write it down if you prefer, do it in a letter, 802 00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:37,320 Speaker 2: whatever you again, whatever it takes to get your point across, 803 00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:39,279 Speaker 2: do that. Don't feel the pressure. If it has to 804 00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:42,239 Speaker 2: be in person, it doesn't. I've when I wanted to 805 00:38:42,239 --> 00:38:43,840 Speaker 2: have a talk with my ex when we just broke up, 806 00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:45,720 Speaker 2: and I'm like, can we please make up? I wrote 807 00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:48,120 Speaker 2: notes down and read it out to him, because you 808 00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:50,640 Speaker 2: want to forget anything, But I'm like, I just don't 809 00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:53,000 Speaker 2: want to forget because I'm like, I know that if 810 00:38:53,040 --> 00:38:54,600 Speaker 2: I just sat there, So if it takes that do 811 00:38:54,680 --> 00:38:57,239 Speaker 2: that doesn't matter. But it's going to be something where 812 00:38:57,239 --> 00:39:00,279 Speaker 2: you can say, these have been the issues, this is 813 00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:03,320 Speaker 2: what I've requested for change, and this is what's not happened. 814 00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:05,719 Speaker 2: I've tried doing it this way, I've tried doing it 815 00:39:05,719 --> 00:39:07,400 Speaker 2: that way. It's just not happened. I'm not going to 816 00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:10,080 Speaker 2: try and change you anymore. You can't change someone, you 817 00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:14,080 Speaker 2: can't change their behavior. So then that's when if they 818 00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:15,680 Speaker 2: don't and you don't have to say I'm leaving, I'm 819 00:39:15,719 --> 00:39:17,239 Speaker 2: cutting out of my life. You don't have to say it, 820 00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:19,640 Speaker 2: but you say, but this has not been you know, 821 00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:22,439 Speaker 2: and you're just the balls now in their court. They're 822 00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:24,400 Speaker 2: not going to respond positively obviously because they haven't in 823 00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:27,120 Speaker 2: the past. But at least you've put it there and 824 00:39:27,160 --> 00:39:30,760 Speaker 2: then you that's it. You go no contact. I always say, 825 00:39:31,320 --> 00:39:34,040 Speaker 2: because some people hate the finality of it. They hate 826 00:39:34,120 --> 00:39:37,360 Speaker 2: that it's this final thing. So that's why people struggle 827 00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:41,160 Speaker 2: to pull the plug on the relationship. But I always say, 828 00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:46,920 Speaker 2: if you want a relationship, there's I've given you exactly 829 00:39:46,960 --> 00:39:50,000 Speaker 2: what the formula. There's the formula. If you came back 830 00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:54,440 Speaker 2: and just catered to these basic needs, I would genuinely 831 00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:59,040 Speaker 2: be open to trying again. But as it stands, no, 832 00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:02,279 Speaker 2: I'm done, and you've shown time and time again that 833 00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:04,479 Speaker 2: you can't change. So I'm not so to make people 834 00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:06,520 Speaker 2: feel more open to the idea. You're not saying I'm 835 00:40:06,560 --> 00:40:09,319 Speaker 2: cutting you out forever. It's done good, never again, no 836 00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:11,440 Speaker 2: matter what, because that's so Like I said, people go 837 00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:14,000 Speaker 2: through so many evolutions in their life. You know, I've 838 00:40:14,000 --> 00:40:18,319 Speaker 2: seen people make crazy adjustments. I've seen a mom kick 839 00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:21,160 Speaker 2: her son out because he was gay, and she's like, 840 00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:22,920 Speaker 2: I can't accept it. I can't accept it to within 841 00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:28,560 Speaker 2: two years posting all his drag photos on her Facebook 842 00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:30,799 Speaker 2: being like so proud, Oh my god, how beautiful the 843 00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:34,279 Speaker 2: change that people can make because she kicked him out 844 00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:36,120 Speaker 2: and he went no contact, and she's like, I've literally 845 00:40:36,120 --> 00:40:36,719 Speaker 2: lost my son. 846 00:40:36,960 --> 00:40:40,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, you know it's completely my decision, that was my fault. 847 00:40:41,160 --> 00:40:44,080 Speaker 2: Yeah. So not to get your hopes, I'm thinking, oh 848 00:40:44,080 --> 00:40:45,480 Speaker 2: my god, this is what's going to cause the change. 849 00:40:45,560 --> 00:40:48,760 Speaker 2: Absolutely have zero expectations because you've seen the track record, 850 00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:52,200 Speaker 2: but just say, look, I'm done. I'm actually done with 851 00:40:52,239 --> 00:40:54,960 Speaker 2: this relationship as it stands. I'm done forever. If you 852 00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:58,040 Speaker 2: want to create a new one, I'd definitely. 853 00:40:57,680 --> 00:40:59,239 Speaker 1: Been open to that. If you want to create a 854 00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:01,440 Speaker 1: new one, yeah, I actually really it's like you're not 855 00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:03,839 Speaker 1: trying to repair the old relationship's done, it's finished, it's 856 00:41:03,880 --> 00:41:04,640 Speaker 1: finished enough. 857 00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:10,160 Speaker 2: I've reached here the limits. I'm walking away. But yeah, 858 00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:14,560 Speaker 2: like I'm always people innately want to connect. They want, 859 00:41:14,719 --> 00:41:17,600 Speaker 2: you know, so you're likely to if they were to 860 00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:20,000 Speaker 2: come in five years time, two years time and say 861 00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:22,920 Speaker 2: I fucked up, I'm willing. I want to give it 862 00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:24,680 Speaker 2: a shot. I know exactly what it is that you need. 863 00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:26,840 Speaker 2: You've you've explained it to me, and I'm going to try. 864 00:41:27,000 --> 00:41:29,040 Speaker 2: You're going to likely be like, yeah, I want. 865 00:41:28,880 --> 00:41:31,960 Speaker 1: To Yeah you know jeez, I actually loved that was 866 00:41:32,040 --> 00:41:36,759 Speaker 1: quite profound for me listening to that. Thank you, being like, wow, 867 00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:41,120 Speaker 1: that's that's such a good point. Like I do think 868 00:41:41,120 --> 00:41:44,680 Speaker 1: that people I hate to say people are good, but 869 00:41:45,239 --> 00:41:47,040 Speaker 1: I think it's easier for people to make the right 870 00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:49,600 Speaker 1: decisions by you when you show them how you you 871 00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:51,960 Speaker 1: deserve to be treated. Yeah, And I know it feels 872 00:41:51,960 --> 00:41:54,759 Speaker 1: like such a burden sometimes it is really hard to be, 873 00:41:54,840 --> 00:41:57,120 Speaker 1: Like I wish I had family members where I didn't 874 00:41:57,160 --> 00:41:59,080 Speaker 1: have to do this, where I didn't have to give 875 00:41:59,120 --> 00:42:01,840 Speaker 1: them like a guy. It's sad for a lot of 876 00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:05,880 Speaker 1: people in human empathy, that's so difficult, But it's also 877 00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:09,600 Speaker 1: one of those things where you get to decide at 878 00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:13,480 Speaker 1: this moment whether that burden is worth it or whether 879 00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:16,080 Speaker 1: you don't want to take it on, and that is 880 00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:18,520 Speaker 1: like only a decision that you can make, like I 881 00:42:18,560 --> 00:42:21,600 Speaker 1: really think that quite deeply, Like you really have to 882 00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:24,359 Speaker 1: make that decision for yourself, and it is a pros 883 00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:26,759 Speaker 1: and cons list that I'm sure is extensive and complex 884 00:42:26,800 --> 00:42:29,719 Speaker 1: and nuanced, but it does take time. And I think 885 00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:33,160 Speaker 1: that hopefully this episode has like given you the right 886 00:42:33,200 --> 00:42:35,799 Speaker 1: equipment to know how to do that and know how 887 00:42:35,840 --> 00:42:37,839 Speaker 1: to get to that, to that point where you do 888 00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:40,960 Speaker 1: think that drastic measures need to be taken. 889 00:42:41,160 --> 00:42:45,400 Speaker 2: And it's very it is empowering when you do finally 890 00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:47,320 Speaker 2: come to a decision and make that decision, because a 891 00:42:47,360 --> 00:42:50,360 Speaker 2: lot of people that are in these really manipulative relationships 892 00:42:51,080 --> 00:42:54,480 Speaker 2: have issues with their own relationship with themselves, especially you 893 00:42:54,600 --> 00:42:57,799 Speaker 2: were raised in that environment, so it's probably really hard 894 00:42:57,800 --> 00:42:59,720 Speaker 2: to make a call like that. And put yourself first 895 00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:03,359 Speaker 2: when you've been around that environment for so long and 896 00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:05,120 Speaker 2: like I always say, if someone's been grown up in 897 00:43:05,120 --> 00:43:07,960 Speaker 2: this beautiful, happy family, happy, but it's easy to look 898 00:43:08,040 --> 00:43:11,799 Speaker 2: and say, oh, just fuck gives a fuck? Yeah, but 899 00:43:11,840 --> 00:43:14,040 Speaker 2: it's like, no, you've raised in that environment. So for 900 00:43:14,080 --> 00:43:16,640 Speaker 2: you to even make that call or to make the change, 901 00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:19,080 Speaker 2: it takes a lot, and I think it will actually 902 00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:21,400 Speaker 2: be your first step into really building on your relationship 903 00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:24,720 Speaker 2: with yourself. You know, you've got to, like you teach 904 00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:25,759 Speaker 2: people how to treat you. 905 00:43:26,120 --> 00:43:27,120 Speaker 1: Oh, I totally believe that. 906 00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:28,839 Speaker 2: Have to teach people how to treat you. And if 907 00:43:28,840 --> 00:43:33,040 Speaker 2: it means walking away and saying I cannot do this anymore, 908 00:43:33,640 --> 00:43:36,160 Speaker 2: that's a huge statement. But you have to follow through 909 00:43:36,160 --> 00:43:37,799 Speaker 2: with it because then you know, if you you know, 910 00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:39,200 Speaker 2: it's not to say I've cut you out forever like 911 00:43:39,239 --> 00:43:41,640 Speaker 2: we just spoke about, but it is saying I cannot 912 00:43:41,680 --> 00:43:43,440 Speaker 2: do this to myself anymore. Yeah. 913 00:43:43,560 --> 00:43:46,279 Speaker 1: Actually, Christmas such holidays a great time to do it. 914 00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:50,040 Speaker 1: Missing a big family holiday doesn't mean that you've cut 915 00:43:50,040 --> 00:43:51,560 Speaker 1: yourself out of their life, but it does send a 916 00:43:51,600 --> 00:43:52,400 Speaker 1: pretty clear message. 917 00:43:52,440 --> 00:43:54,240 Speaker 2: It's a very clear message. 918 00:43:54,000 --> 00:43:57,000 Speaker 1: Not permanent, but also very powerful. Very I think that 919 00:43:57,000 --> 00:43:57,319 Speaker 1: this is. 920 00:43:57,480 --> 00:43:58,440 Speaker 2: And it's not aggressive. 921 00:43:58,520 --> 00:43:59,280 Speaker 1: It's not aggressive. 922 00:43:59,280 --> 00:44:00,000 Speaker 2: It's just your absence. 923 00:44:00,440 --> 00:44:02,800 Speaker 1: It's your absence, and your absence speaks louder than words. 924 00:44:02,800 --> 00:44:11,400 Speaker 1: Sometimes no response is also a response. Thank you so 925 00:44:11,520 --> 00:44:13,640 Speaker 1: much for coming on. I feel like that was such 926 00:44:13,640 --> 00:44:16,680 Speaker 1: an important discussion to be having around this time. Obviously, 927 00:44:16,840 --> 00:44:18,360 Speaker 1: I think I can speak from both of us like 928 00:44:18,400 --> 00:44:22,080 Speaker 1: sending a lot of love and strength and empathy to 929 00:44:22,160 --> 00:44:25,600 Speaker 1: you guys, and sympathy that you're having to grow through 930 00:44:25,600 --> 00:44:27,560 Speaker 1: this experience around this time. I know it can be 931 00:44:27,600 --> 00:44:32,040 Speaker 1: hard seeing really happy families who seem to have no problems. 932 00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:35,200 Speaker 1: Every family has their problems. I will say that from 933 00:44:35,239 --> 00:44:37,600 Speaker 1: the bottom of my heart. And you are doing not 934 00:44:37,680 --> 00:44:40,319 Speaker 1: a lot of job. Yeah, you're definitely not alone. Where 935 00:44:40,400 --> 00:44:42,279 Speaker 1: can they find you? If they do not know who 936 00:44:42,280 --> 00:44:45,200 Speaker 1: you are? Already firstly ridiculous, but where can they find you? 937 00:44:45,320 --> 00:44:49,160 Speaker 2: So the podcast is called do You Fucking Mind? Or 938 00:44:49,280 --> 00:44:54,680 Speaker 2: like it's spelled do U f asterix, asterix and mind, 939 00:44:55,960 --> 00:44:58,520 Speaker 2: And it's like an orange artwork with your kind. 940 00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:01,480 Speaker 1: I'll put it in the description, Alexis, thank you so 941 00:45:01,640 --> 00:45:04,960 Speaker 1: much for coming on. As always, if you enjoyed this episode, 942 00:45:05,280 --> 00:45:07,560 Speaker 1: please feel free to leave a five star review wherever 943 00:45:07,600 --> 00:45:11,200 Speaker 1: you are listening right now. If you have an episode suggestion, 944 00:45:11,320 --> 00:45:13,560 Speaker 1: something that we haven't spoken about that you would love 945 00:45:13,600 --> 00:45:16,600 Speaker 1: to hear from us, please follow me at that Psychology 946 00:45:16,600 --> 00:45:18,719 Speaker 1: podcast and you can send us a dm over there. 947 00:45:19,080 --> 00:45:21,879 Speaker 1: I hope you enjoyed this episode. As always, we will 948 00:45:21,920 --> 00:45:24,600 Speaker 1: be back next week with another one. Have a great weekend.