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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. You're listening to the

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch Just Live weekdays at

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Speaker 1: noon Eastern on Apple car Play and Enrouno with the

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Business app. Listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts,

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Speaker 1: or watch us live on YouTube.

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Speaker 2: It's a great pleasure to spend some time right now

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Speaker 2: with a special voice on this The Ambassador of Canada

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Speaker 2: to the United States is with us in studio here

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Speaker 2: in Washington, d C. At Bloomberg Ambassador Kirsten Hillman. What

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Speaker 2: a day for you to stop by. It's wonderful to

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Speaker 2: see you. Thank you for your time. There are a

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Speaker 2: lot of things I'd love to ask you about. And

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Speaker 2: because this is happening right now, I wonder how Canada

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Speaker 2: is viewing this political turmoil in France.

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Speaker 3: Yes, well, thanks Jo, it's great to be here with you.

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Speaker 4: We're watching with rapped attention, like viewers are here in

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Speaker 4: the US and all over the world. It's a very

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Speaker 4: dramatic moment and we'll see where it takes us. I

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Speaker 4: think that Canada also has a parliamentary system, so these

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Speaker 4: kinds of non confidence votes can happen in our country

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Speaker 4: as well, so for that reason, I think it's all

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Speaker 4: the more interesting.

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Speaker 2: For watching to get a bit more closely. Does this

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Speaker 2: have the potential to impact Canada's relationship with France or

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Speaker 2: this is just part of the business at hand.

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Speaker 4: I think it's part of the business at hand. I

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Speaker 4: think that we, you know, the relationships like these that

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Speaker 4: are very strong. They transcend individual political leaders. But it's

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Speaker 4: something to watch, and political watches are very interested in

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Speaker 4: the trends that are happening around the world with respect

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Speaker 4: to leadership in our main allies.

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Speaker 2: And there's a massive turnover happening here in the US.

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Speaker 2: Of course, we're seeing a major transition in some European governments.

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Speaker 2: There are questions about what this means, for instance, for

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Speaker 2: supporting the war effort in Ukraine. What are your thoughts

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Speaker 2: on that?

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Speaker 3: Well, you know, I think that the Europeans.

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Speaker 4: We just had the Halifax International Security Forum, which is

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Speaker 4: a large form around exactly that, and we had a

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Speaker 4: lot of NATO leaders there and all of our sort

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Speaker 4: of European allies as well as well as American allies.

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Speaker 4: I think that there is a very strong desire to

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Speaker 4: continue to support europe support NATO. I think that it

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Speaker 4: becomes complicated through transitions because new governments have to commit

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Speaker 4: to achieving the goals that they have been elected on

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Speaker 4: and those often cost money. But in terms of supporting

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Speaker 4: the people of Ukraine, I think in that regard, the

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Speaker 4: alliance remains strong.

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Speaker 2: Well. Part of the reason why there are questions about

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Speaker 2: all of this is because of the incoming Trump administration

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Speaker 2: and some of his challenges with NATO and some of

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Speaker 2: his previous statements about what's happening in Ukraine. And I

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Speaker 2: don't know if you have a take on that. I

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Speaker 2: guess we'll watch this play out as it will once

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Speaker 2: Donald Trump is in office. But you just spent some

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Speaker 2: time at mar A Lago quite famously in this sit

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Speaker 2: down with Prime Minister Trudeau and President elect Trump. We

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Speaker 2: read that this lasted over three hours.

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Speaker 4: What was it like, Well, I'll be honest, it was

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Speaker 4: quite a joyous evening the whole because it was holiday

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Speaker 4: week weekend and it was right on the teriffs of

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Speaker 4: mar A Lago. There were children kind of running around

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Speaker 4: in their fancy clothes and families having dinner together, and

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Speaker 4: then the table with the president and the Prime Minister

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Speaker 4: and guests were sort of right in the middle of

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Speaker 4: all of that, so it had a real sense of

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Speaker 4: holiday and celebration and fun. Obviously they talked about a

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Speaker 4: lot of important issues. It was three hours, but it

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Speaker 4: was also an opportunity to reconnect.

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Speaker 2: So it was cordial. There was laughing, lots of laughing.

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Speaker 2: That's fascinating to hear. I'd love to ask you a

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Speaker 2: bit about this argument over tariffs. But how does it

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Speaker 2: come together when Donald Trump puts something on social media

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Speaker 2: and a short time later the Prime Minister of Canada's

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Speaker 2: on an airplane to Florida. Is that just the way

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Speaker 2: politics are had?

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Speaker 1: Now?

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Speaker 2: How did that whole trip emerge?

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Speaker 4: So what happened was the day at the tariff announcement

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Speaker 4: was put up on social media, the Prime Minister called

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Speaker 4: the President and they talked about a variety of things,

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Speaker 4: but obviously they talked about this tariff announcement and the

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Speaker 4: Prime Minister said to the President, I'd really like to

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Speaker 4: come and see Donald. We should talk about this some more.

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Speaker 4: And he said, well, why don't you come for dinner

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Speaker 4: on Friday seven thirty at mar A Lago.

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Speaker 3: That's exactly what happened.

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Speaker 2: And then the Prime Minister asked you should we go.

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Speaker 4: And I said, ah, yes, please, so so and then

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Speaker 4: and then I guess just over the course of a

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Speaker 4: few days as it came together, other guests and other

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Speaker 4: sort of allies and incoming members of the Trump administration

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Speaker 4: also joined in or we're going to be down there

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Speaker 4: and joined in. So it was a very it was

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Speaker 4: a big table, and it was a very substantive table.

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Speaker 4: We talked about energy, we talked about security.

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Speaker 3: We obviously talked about the border a lot. That was

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Speaker 3: a very important feature of the conversation. So yeah, no,

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Speaker 3: it was.

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Speaker 4: It was terrific, and we're pleased that the two leaders,

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Speaker 4: who maybe in ways that people don't appreciate, are have

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Speaker 4: sort of a camaraderie. They've known each other for a

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Speaker 4: long time and they've developed a relationship through you know,

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Speaker 4: a lot of complicated times COVID and you know, the

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Speaker 4: renegotiation of NAFTA and all of it.

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Speaker 2: So we'll listen to you. You sound like you're ready

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Speaker 2: to go back already, because a lot of the reporting

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Speaker 2: was about tenshiit over tariffs. He's talking about twenty five

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Speaker 2: percent tariffs on goods from not only Canada but Mexico.

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Speaker 2: If that actually happens, and maybe you can tell me

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Speaker 2: it won't based on what they discussed with Canada reply

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Speaker 2: in kind.

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Speaker 4: So just to clarify, it was a lovely evening. It

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Speaker 4: was fun and cordial. But the tariff discussion and discussion

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Speaker 4: on the border and other priorities, these are serious discussions

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Speaker 4: and there was a lot of you know, a lot

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Speaker 4: of substantive things that were discussed as well, of course,

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Speaker 4: and maybe even more constructively so in a sense of

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Speaker 4: friendship and partnership on the tariffs. Look, we don't think

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Speaker 4: they're a good idea. There won't be good for Canada,

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Speaker 4: and we don't think they're good for the United States.

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Speaker 4: We have this massive and growing and strategic trade relationship,

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Speaker 4: so we are really busy trying to make that case.

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Speaker 4: Since President Elect Trump was last in office, the Canadian

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Speaker 4: US trade has gone up year on year since the

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Speaker 4: renegotiation of the n after. We are the biggest customer

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Speaker 4: by far of US exporters. Thirty six states countess as

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Speaker 4: their number one export market. So it's really important sort

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Speaker 4: of in terms of actual volumes, but also in terms

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Speaker 4: of what we've trade together some of the strategic goods

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Speaker 4: that we don't want to be getting from our non

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Speaker 4: allied countries. So we're making that case and.

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Speaker 3: We're hopeful that that will win the day.

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Speaker 2: Are you talking to Mexico about a concerted response or

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Speaker 2: do you worry about a split between Canada and Mexico

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Speaker 2: and handling this.

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Speaker 4: I think that the Canada US Mexico economic partnership is

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Speaker 4: important and it has been a real important feature of

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Speaker 4: our economic.

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Speaker 3: Growth over the last generation.

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Speaker 4: We have quite different issues to manage with the incoming

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Speaker 4: administration than the Mexican government, so I think we try

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Speaker 4: to cooperate and coordinate I suppose altogether when we can,

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Speaker 4: But in truth, often it's just quite a different trade profile,

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Speaker 4: it's quite a different security profile, so we end up

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Speaker 4: having a mix of conversations together and then bilateral.

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Speaker 2: So coordinated response is a challenge I think.

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Speaker 3: I mean, we will see what happens. I think it's

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Speaker 3: too soon to tell. I think that we just have

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Speaker 3: a very different trade profile.

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Speaker 4: So maybe I don't know. I think it's too soon

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Speaker 4: to tell. I think it's really the honest answer here.

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Speaker 2: I sat at this desk yesterday with the Governor of Alaska.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, Mike Dunlavy, who's very excited about changes he

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Speaker 2: sees potentially coming specifically in the energy sector to Alaska

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Speaker 2: based on promises made by Donald Trump in the campaign,

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Speaker 2: and he's prepared to move forward on a pipeline that

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Speaker 2: would have a lot to do with Canada. What's the

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Speaker 2: government's expectation and preparation for that.

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Speaker 4: Well, we'll have to see what that proposal turns out

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Speaker 4: to be. Governor didn Levy is a good ally and

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Speaker 4: friend of Canada's. We've done a lot of really good

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Speaker 4: stuff together. He was very very close to our governor

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Speaker 4: or are Premier of the Yukon, who's his neighbor. And

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Speaker 4: I think that, you know, I think there are a

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Speaker 4: lot of possibilities there. I think the energy relationship and

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Speaker 4: energy as president like Trump calls it energy dominance big

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Speaker 4: part of the incoming administration's objectives, and CANNA can be

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Speaker 4: a huge part of that. So infrastructure is required, for sure,

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Speaker 4: the which infrastructure and where this is something for us

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Speaker 4: to discuss as a partnership for sure.

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Speaker 2: I just want to mention for the sake of our

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Speaker 2: viewers and listeners at the Prime Minister of France. Prime

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Speaker 2: Minister Barnier has just finished speaking in his own defense

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Speaker 2: before the National Assembly. He spoke for the better part

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Speaker 2: of a half an hour, and we will now proceed

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Speaker 2: to a vote. We've been told that this could arrive

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Speaker 2: roughly by two pm Eastern time in the next twenty

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Speaker 2: minutes or so. It is expected to be a vote

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Speaker 2: of no confidence, but of course we'll wait for that

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Speaker 2: to happen and let you know as soon as we

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Speaker 2: understand what's happening. We're also walking up to some remarks

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Speaker 2: from j Powell, the Federal Reserve Chair, at the New

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Speaker 2: Deal summit in New York. That'll be a few moments

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Speaker 2: from now as we spend time with Canada's ambassador to

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Speaker 2: the US, Kirsten Hillman. So much talk about the border

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Speaker 2: in this country. Usually it's the southwestern border, but the

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Speaker 2: President's been making a bigger deal about the Canadian border,

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Speaker 2: the flow of fentanel. What would our northern border look

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Speaker 2: like under another Trump administration in your view?

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Speaker 4: So I think that we were talking about the dinner

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Speaker 4: at mar Alago, and from my perspective, one of the

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Speaker 4: most important outcomes of that was for us to be

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Speaker 4: able to talk directly to President about the northern border

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Speaker 4: and Fentanel's a huge crisis in the United States.

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Speaker 3: But it's a huge crisis in Canada.

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Speaker 4: It is an equivalent crisis, if I can put it

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Speaker 4: that way, month one month, sometimes per capita.

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Speaker 3: We have more deaths in Canada than you have in

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Speaker 3: the United States. So it is as big of a

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Speaker 3: problem and challenge and priority for us.

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Speaker 4: But the truth is that there is no criminal flow

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Speaker 4: of fentanyl from Canada to the United States. The last year,

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Speaker 4: the according to US statistics, point two percent of what

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Speaker 4: was seized in the United States came from Canada.

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Speaker 3: So it's primarily, you know.

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Speaker 2: Personal directly from China. Or is it coming from the.

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Speaker 3: US into Canada. It's coming primarily from China, yeah, yeah, And.

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Speaker 4: So what we wanted to talk about was we want

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Speaker 4: to correct the facts and say this, we are not

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Speaker 4: a source of fentanyl into the United States. We are

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Speaker 4: grappling with this horrible, horrible public health and social crisis,

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Speaker 4: and we welcome everything.

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Speaker 3: We can do to work on it together.

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Speaker 4: So that was a very constructive conversation and as as

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Speaker 4: is any conversation on the border, the border is in

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Speaker 4: my view, it's a source of some of the biggest

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Speaker 4: strength that we have as a nation. And as do

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Speaker 4: you you know, to have such a friendly, productive relationship

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Speaker 4: with a neighbor that you share five thousand mile border.

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Speaker 2: Again in common scenario around the world. Exactly, it sounds

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Speaker 2: like a critical meeting. It's fascinating to hear you describe

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Speaker 2: the various elements. And then there was a joke. We're

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Speaker 2: told it was a joke about making Canada the fifty

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Speaker 2: first state where people laughing. Is this been reflected properly

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Speaker 2: in the media, Donald Trump with this AI image of

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Speaker 2: him with the Canadian flag, We're kidding.

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Speaker 3: Right, well, I think so. It feels like you're kidding.

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Speaker 4: We can also make the United States the eleventh province

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Speaker 4: if you want.

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Speaker 3: I mean, there's two ways that this can go.

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Speaker 2: You didn't say no.

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Speaker 3: I think yes, it was a joke. It was a

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Speaker 3: social dinner. There were lots of jokes happening in the direction.

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Speaker 2: Right, So remember the Greenland thing. I mean, we've been

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Speaker 2: down this road before, Ambassador.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, no, it was it was a joke, and I actually, honestly,

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Speaker 4: I take it. We often think of the US as

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Speaker 4: sort of a family, cousins or you know, big brother

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Speaker 4: or friend.

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Speaker 2: Mostly so we can argue with the Thanksgiving table.

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Speaker 4: I don't even think it's I think it's gentle ribbing

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Speaker 4: between siblings. That's how I would put it, and and

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Speaker 4: I take it as a I think it is a

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Speaker 4: as a real sign of the comfort that the leaders

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Speaker 4: have together.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's great.

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Speaker 2: And I assume things ended well, which you know, leads

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Speaker 2: us to wonder if there'll be a meeting in the

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Speaker 2: early stages of this administration between the presidents and the

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Speaker 2: Prime Minister.

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Speaker 3: I think so.

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Speaker 4: As we were leaving, the President walked us to our

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Speaker 4: motorcade personally, which was wonderful, and he said, you know,

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Speaker 4: justin call me anytime.

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Speaker 2: How about that?

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Speaker 4: So, as I say, in my role, with my responsibilities,

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Speaker 4: I couldn't be happier.

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Speaker 2: This is a conversation you want to hear anywhere else

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Speaker 2: with Kirsten Hillman, Ambassador of Canada to the United States.

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Speaker 2: I'm really glad you comes se US today and we

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Speaker 2: appreciate the insights.

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Speaker 3: Thanks for having the.

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Speaker 2: First hand account of that I won't say infamous, maybe

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Speaker 2: famous dinner at mar A Lago.

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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast can

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Speaker 1: Just Live weekdays at noon Eastern on Apple car Play

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Speaker 1: and then Ronoo with the Bloomberg Business app. You can

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Speaker 1: also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New

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Speaker 1: York station. Just say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty.

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Speaker 2: What a news day we have here to wake up

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Speaker 2: to these headlines today that keep flowing, and we're going

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Speaker 2: to have a lot more breakers, I can promise you

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Speaker 2: over the course of this afternoon. With what's happening in France?

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Speaker 2: What's happening in New York? As Amy Morre has just

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Speaker 2: told us, this Brian Thompson story is horrifying and this

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Speaker 2: is hitting home for a lot of people in Manhattan

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Speaker 2: after this fifty year old executive was shot just before

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Speaker 2: seven am outside the New York Hilton Midtown. Of course,

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Speaker 2: what's happening in France has our attention and no confidence

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Speaker 2: vote that is expected to emerge here maybe in the

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Speaker 2: time that we're actually on the air between now and

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Speaker 2: two pm Eastern time will be close either way, As

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Speaker 2: this appears to be a foregone conclusion, We're of course

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Speaker 2: waiting to find the results of this actual vote. But

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Speaker 2: this seventy three year old prime minister, a self proclaimed

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Speaker 2: Charles de Gaulle conservative Michelle Barnier, is now set to

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Speaker 2: become the shortest tenured prime minister in more than sixty years.

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Speaker 2: This is one of these instances where the far left

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Speaker 2: and the far right come together there in a common cause,

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Speaker 2: and in this case it is to dispatch the government

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Speaker 2: at hand and the prime minister. We'll see what happens

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Speaker 2: to Emmanuel Macron. And we're lucky to have Terry Hayes

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Speaker 2: with us today to talk about this a bit, but

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Speaker 2: also the flurry of transition names that we've been hearing

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Speaker 2: from mar A Lago the last couple hours. Of course,

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Speaker 2: he's the founder of Pangea Policy. Terry, it's great to

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Speaker 2: see you. Welcome back. I know you've got your eyes

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Speaker 2: on all of these stories today. How important should the

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Speaker 2: American investor consider what's happening today in France considering the

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Speaker 2: turmoil economically that could follow.

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Speaker 5: Well, Thanks Joe, thanks for having me. I think there's

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Speaker 5: two things for the American investor to understand. One is politically,

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Speaker 5: and I I kind of push back against the prevailing

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Speaker 5: narrative here. Politically, this show's resilience. I'm not being Pollyanna, Sharon.

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Speaker 5: I'll get to it in a second. The show's resilience

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Speaker 5: of democratic institutions we've seen, we are seeing this in France.

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Speaker 5: Now we saw it South Korea yesterday. Uh, and you know,

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Speaker 5: we've seen a couple shaken, but but nobody's going to

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Speaker 5: fall and you know, this isn't This will not bring

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Speaker 5: on a major crisis where the government can't be funded

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Speaker 5: or anything in France. That's important to know. But at

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Speaker 5: the same time, it's not a pleasant moment for France

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Speaker 5: because what you're seeing is the kind of the temporary

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Speaker 5: triumph of party and faction factions over over nation and

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Speaker 5: that's a little disturbing. And now for the markets implication,

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Speaker 5: it's negative for markets in no small part because you're

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Speaker 5: gonna you're going to have a prolonged period of continued

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Speaker 5: instability in France. Generally. You combine that with what's going

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Speaker 5: on in Germany where elections are are about to happen, uh,

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Speaker 5: the the negative economics of the Eurozone more broadly, and

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Speaker 5: uh and kind of the difficult times that are happening

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Speaker 5: in Great Britain and uh. You know, well that adds

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Speaker 5: up to a negative investment environment for the Eurozone and

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Speaker 5: you know, by implication, a more positive one for the

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Speaker 5: United States.

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Speaker 2: What does this mean for Emmanuel Macron and what would

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Speaker 2: be his relationship with other European capitals, dealing with a

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Speaker 2: lot of turmoil at the moment financially economically, of course,

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Speaker 2: with an eye on the war in Ukraine.

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Speaker 5: Well, sure you get a situation here where it's important

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Speaker 5: to understand too that as you know, the audience might

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Speaker 5: not is that the left and the right here are

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Speaker 5: not there. They may be uniting to get rid of Barnier,

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Speaker 5: the Prime minister, and certainly la Penn, the national rally rightist,

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Speaker 5: would like to get rid of Macrol. She says. Macron

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Speaker 5: is very unlikely to go as we talk right now,

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Speaker 5: and he wants to try to appoint some new prime minister,

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Speaker 5: hopefully by Saturday. But this, uh, this period of stained

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Speaker 5: instability in the French government, you know, makes the politics

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Speaker 5: of the European Union that much more difficult, that much

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Speaker 5: more fraught, and you know, in terms of geopolitics, that

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Speaker 5: makes their reliability as an American ally in you know,

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Speaker 5: the the hot and cold wars that are going on

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Speaker 5: now a little bit more difficult to maintain.

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Speaker 2: We've got our eyes on the Assembly chamber right now,

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Speaker 2: which we see as emptied out quite a bit after

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Speaker 2: the big speakers have had their moments here some of

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Speaker 2: the smaller parties are giving speeches before we hear from

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Speaker 2: Michelle Barnier. It's going to be an interesting day here

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Speaker 2: of developments. By the way, Terry, it looks like we're

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Speaker 2: expecting results here, just in case you're trying to anticipate

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Speaker 2: all of this, probably around two pm Eastern time, and

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Speaker 2: we'll let our viewers and listeners know how that develops here,

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Speaker 2: Terry've got a lot of news here domestically as well

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Speaker 2: as we fill out the cabin at Donald Trump making

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Speaker 2: a couple of pretty important announcements here in the transition,

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Speaker 2: even in the last two hours. And I'll start with

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Speaker 2: this idea of bringing Peter Navarro back as Senior Counsel

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Speaker 2: for Trade and Manufacturing. Now we know that Howard Lutnik's

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Speaker 2: going to be over there at Commerce borrowed in with

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Speaker 2: the trade Representative. They're going to be dealing with tariffs,

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Speaker 2: they're going to be looking at China. Who wins the

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Speaker 2: standoff between Peter Navarro and Howard Lutnik.

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Speaker 5: Oh, don't forget the USTR himself, assuming he's confirmed. Right, So,

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Speaker 5: now you've got a situation where you've got three people,

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Speaker 5: you know, kind of all in the mix, one of

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Speaker 5: which is supposed to have line, you know, kind of

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Speaker 5: line authority for trade matters, and you've got a Secretary

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Speaker 5: of Commerce overseeing, and now you've got Navarro in the

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Speaker 5: mix as well. I thought, in one respect it was

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Speaker 5: kind of funny because I was talking to one of

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Speaker 5: your colleagues about a week or so ago, and and

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Speaker 5: and said to your colleague, you know, watch the other

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Speaker 5: way this goes, which is that they put somebody in

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Speaker 5: the White House to knockheads around everybody else. So it's

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Speaker 5: a it's a difficult mix at best, and what you're

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Speaker 5: going to have is pretty much all points of view represented.

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Speaker 5: I guess in one sense that's good, kind of the

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Speaker 5: hardliners and the not hard liners. But at the same time,

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Speaker 5: what you're going to have is a cacophony of voices

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Speaker 5: that will confuse markets more in no small part because

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Speaker 5: a lot of these debates, I think take place in public,

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Speaker 5: and markets are plenty confused already as a result of

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Speaker 5: the public debates, and I think there's probably more confusion

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Speaker 5: rather than less that comes in around tariffs as a

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Speaker 5: result of this.

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Speaker 2: Amazing Donald Trump also naming Michael Fuckander to be Deputy

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Speaker 2: Treasury Secretary. You talk about this cacophony, Terry Haynes, and

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Speaker 2: you wonder is there some method to the madness here

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Speaker 2: to create the tension that might result in better policy,

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Speaker 2: But it doesn't sound like that based on the way

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Speaker 2: you're describing it.

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Speaker 5: Well, I think what you've got here is you've got

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Speaker 5: a situation where there's good there's certainly going to be

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Speaker 5: a cacophony of voices, but there's a lot of these people.

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Speaker 5: I mean Novarro as a prime examp of this, and

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Speaker 5: no no disrespect, because he's a serious policy guy too,

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Speaker 5: I think. But Navarro is very skilled at using social media,

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Speaker 5: public media, free media megaphones in order to make a point.

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Speaker 5: So one of my reactions to Navarro coming on board

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Speaker 5: formally was that I think there's going to be a

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Speaker 5: little bit of a mismatch between the US t R. Lutnik,

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Speaker 5: who has, you know, a huge other responsibilities other than

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Speaker 5: just tariffing, let's say, and and Navarro generally. And you've

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Speaker 5: and not only that, you're going to have some sharp

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Speaker 5: elbows in the West wing of the White House as well,

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Speaker 5: between the Chief of Staff Miss Wiles and uh and

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Speaker 5: Miller and others, you know, many of whom have very

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Speaker 5: sharp elbows. So I think the market takeaway here is

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Speaker 5: confirming what I've been saying to people, which is it's

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Speaker 5: going to take a little while for the policy to

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Speaker 5: settle out. That's probably a small mark. It's positive because

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Speaker 5: at least you don't have a situation where, you know,

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Speaker 5: everybody understands that there's gonna be huge tariffs from day one,

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Speaker 5: that there might be a more gradualist approach. If you

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Speaker 5: put Bessett in the mix.

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Speaker 2: How many days do you give Pete Hegseth?

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Speaker 5: Sorry, you know, I had, I had my over I

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Speaker 5: thought that the less experience would have the overrunder, similar

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Speaker 5: to Gates, you know, like the moment, but I got

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Speaker 5: the end of the week. There there are some very

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Speaker 5: I've been doing this a long time as you have,

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Speaker 5: and there were every reading I got from senators publicly

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Speaker 5: and otherwise. Uh, last night was very senatorial. Please don't

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Speaker 5: do this, uh you know, don't you know, don't prolong

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Speaker 5: And it was, you know, it was about an hour

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Speaker 5: after that that the whole disantus thing happened, which I

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Speaker 5: will say quickly, regardless of whether it's Desanders or not,

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Speaker 5: what that what it shows and you know what what

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Speaker 5: Laura was saying in the previous segment too chimes with this,

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Speaker 5: is that you've got a situation where you know there's

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Speaker 5: somebody with serious operational experience and and if you're going

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Speaker 5: to reform the Pentagon, uh, you know, you're not looking

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Speaker 5: to you know, slap people around. What you're looking for

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Speaker 5: is is is structural reform, and you're looking for an

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Speaker 5: increase in resilience. It's the worst uh, the worst uh

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Speaker 5: secret and the worst kept secret in Washington is that

439
00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:29,040
Speaker 5: everybody thinks the Defense Department's too slow, too sludgy, and

440
00:22:29,520 --> 00:22:33,040
Speaker 5: needs to be pushed forward, and the need somebody to

441
00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:35,360
Speaker 5: do that and whatever that is, and it's not Hexath

442
00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:37,080
Speaker 5: that is.

443
00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:39,439
Speaker 2: Boy, I hope everyone heard what Terry just said the

444
00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:42,040
Speaker 2: way you articulated that in the in the midst of

445
00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:44,920
Speaker 2: all of this noise, We're not looking for somebody to

446
00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:49,200
Speaker 2: slap people around at the Pentagon. We're looking for structural efficiency.

447
00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:54,399
Speaker 2: Based on his role as an executive and as a

448
00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:59,040
Speaker 2: veteran for that matter, Ronda Santis would fill out that description, Terry,

449
00:22:59,480 --> 00:23:02,320
Speaker 2: and this would then unlock some sort of deal that

450
00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:05,480
Speaker 2: brings Laura Trump to the Senate and maybe lines up

451
00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:08,240
Speaker 2: Matt Gates for governor. Am I pushing it too far?

452
00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:10,960
Speaker 5: Well, I don't know. I mean all those pieces are

453
00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:11,520
Speaker 5: on the table.

454
00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:12,040
Speaker 2: Of course.

455
00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:12,919
Speaker 1: You know.

456
00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:15,080
Speaker 5: My own two cents on this is I think Gates

457
00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:21,400
Speaker 5: is is too radioactive to to run for much of anything. Again, Uh,

458
00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:23,439
Speaker 5: you know, that report will come out one way or

459
00:23:23,440 --> 00:23:26,359
Speaker 5: the other, and it will be very negative and and

460
00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:28,320
Speaker 5: you kind of see what the tolerance is for this

461
00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:30,879
Speaker 5: stuff based on based on hegseeth, you know, and the

462
00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:33,000
Speaker 5: tolerance is very low, and it should be. You know,

463
00:23:33,040 --> 00:23:35,280
Speaker 5: if I'm a senator, that's a position I don't want

464
00:23:35,280 --> 00:23:37,840
Speaker 5: to be in. And you know, I think the Republican

465
00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:39,440
Speaker 5: Party of Florida is probably not going to want to

466
00:23:39,480 --> 00:23:42,880
Speaker 5: do that. You know, Trump will you know, Trump will

467
00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:46,159
Speaker 5: make his demands, and you know, Desantas is free to

468
00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:48,880
Speaker 5: to do it or not do it. Frankly, I think

469
00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:52,400
Speaker 5: Anders has got his eye on further elective office anyway,

470
00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:54,600
Speaker 5: So those decisions I think are going to be a

471
00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:57,240
Speaker 5: little more interesting and not quite as binary. How about that?

472
00:23:57,840 --> 00:24:00,600
Speaker 2: Just great? Absolutely, I love talking to Terry Hayines. I

473
00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:02,360
Speaker 2: have to compete with all the other shows to talk

474
00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:04,639
Speaker 2: to Terry Hayines, but I won today. He's the founder

475
00:24:04,680 --> 00:24:07,160
Speaker 2: of Pangaea policy. I think I have to pay surveillance

476
00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:08,879
Speaker 2: something now, Terry, thank you so much. It's great to

477
00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:11,320
Speaker 2: see you. Remember what Terry said about the Pentagon.

478
00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:18,440
Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch

479
00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:21,600
Speaker 1: us live weekdays at noon Eastern on Applecarplay and then

480
00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:24,640
Speaker 1: roun Oto with the Bloomberg Business app. Listen on demand

481
00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:29,119
Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube.

482
00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:34,199
Speaker 2: Boy, that hits keep on coming, as everyone inside the

483
00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:40,359
Speaker 2: Beltway says Ron DeSantis. That's the reporting now. If Pete

484
00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:44,080
Speaker 2: Hegseth doesn't work out as many expect at this point

485
00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:46,639
Speaker 2: to be the next Secretary of Defense, Donald Trump has

486
00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:50,199
Speaker 2: been talking with the governor of Florida about being the

487
00:24:50,280 --> 00:24:55,119
Speaker 2: next in line. Someone with executive experience, obviously, and a

488
00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:58,480
Speaker 2: veteran of the United States Navy would be quite a

489
00:24:58,520 --> 00:25:02,720
Speaker 2: turn in this campaign, which, by the way, has anyone

490
00:25:02,760 --> 00:25:06,240
Speaker 2: mentioned yet. The election just ended last night. Democrat flipped

491
00:25:06,240 --> 00:25:10,719
Speaker 2: the seat in California and so we're done. It's going

492
00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:14,640
Speaker 2: to be a razor thin majority for Speaker Mike Johnson

493
00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:16,760
Speaker 2: going into this new conference. But we need to deal

494
00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:19,440
Speaker 2: with what's happening right now. And I'm glad to say

495
00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:22,080
Speaker 2: our signature panel is with us, because boy, this is

496
00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:25,560
Speaker 2: the name game today. We have received what at this

497
00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:28,639
Speaker 2: point no fewer than six announcements from mar A Lago

498
00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:32,040
Speaker 2: on the transition. We've got just about everything fulfilled here

499
00:25:32,080 --> 00:25:35,680
Speaker 2: with the exception of the SEC according to Laura Davison,

500
00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:39,080
Speaker 2: And we may as well start with what's happening with

501
00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:42,639
Speaker 2: Pete Hegseth. His mother was on Fox News this morning

502
00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:46,800
Speaker 2: trying to walk back the letter that she wrote to

503
00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:51,680
Speaker 2: her son about womanizing and his lifestyle that was brought

504
00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:54,120
Speaker 2: forth by The New York Times. She tried to describe

505
00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:55,760
Speaker 2: that as something written in the heat of the moment

506
00:25:55,800 --> 00:26:00,120
Speaker 2: of an ugly divorce. He's making the rounds again today

507
00:26:00,160 --> 00:26:02,840
Speaker 2: on Capitol Hill. This appears to be an eleventh hour

508
00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:06,200
Speaker 2: effort to keep Pete hegg Seth in the mix here

509
00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:09,399
Speaker 2: for sec. DEF. He is talking to a couple of

510
00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:11,800
Speaker 2: very important members of the Senate today who are going

511
00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:14,439
Speaker 2: to probably make the call on whether this happens or not,

512
00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:18,240
Speaker 2: including Roger Wicker, who's the incoming Senate Armed Services Chair,

513
00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:20,760
Speaker 2: and of course Senator Jony Ernst, who may be the

514
00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:24,320
Speaker 2: conscience on this whole decision that needs to be made.

515
00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:27,600
Speaker 2: He met as well today with John Thune. This is important.

516
00:26:27,640 --> 00:26:33,040
Speaker 2: In fact, he just emerged reporting from Stephen Dennis after

517
00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:36,560
Speaker 2: the Thune meeting. Quote. I spoke to the President this morning.

518
00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:40,880
Speaker 2: This is Pete, hegseeth. He supports me fully. We are

519
00:26:40,920 --> 00:26:44,440
Speaker 2: not going anywhere unquote. Let's bring him in our signature

520
00:26:44,480 --> 00:26:49,080
Speaker 2: panel Genie Shanzano, Bloomberg Politics contributor, Democratic analyst and political

521
00:26:49,119 --> 00:26:53,440
Speaker 2: science professor at Iona University, alongside Rick Davis, Republican strategist,

522
00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:57,680
Speaker 2: partner at Stone Court Capital and Bloomberg Politics contributor. Rick.

523
00:26:57,720 --> 00:27:02,119
Speaker 2: When you hear we're going nowhere? Does he drop out tonight?

524
00:27:04,280 --> 00:27:07,480
Speaker 6: Yeah? Nowhere? It depends upon what day it is. I

525
00:27:07,520 --> 00:27:11,879
Speaker 6: don't know if he drops out tonight, But as Terry

526
00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:13,880
Speaker 6: was just saying in the last interview, I wouldn't give

527
00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:18,240
Speaker 6: him the week. There is a concerted effort amongst Republicans

528
00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:22,280
Speaker 6: now to start setting the stage for his departure. A

529
00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:25,880
Speaker 6: sort of non endorsement from Lindsey Graham yesterday was an

530
00:27:25,880 --> 00:27:29,520
Speaker 6: incredibly telling thing. Laura Ingram took after him as a

531
00:27:29,520 --> 00:27:34,200
Speaker 6: serial adulterer. I mean all these things powed very poorly

532
00:27:34,400 --> 00:27:37,720
Speaker 6: for his chances to succeed. I think he's putting on

533
00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:39,720
Speaker 6: a good face and he's got to say what he's saying,

534
00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:44,040
Speaker 6: but all that melts away in an instance if Donald

535
00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:45,640
Speaker 6: Trump decides to flip.

536
00:27:47,280 --> 00:27:49,000
Speaker 2: Genie. I think I know how you feel about Ron

537
00:27:49,080 --> 00:27:53,359
Speaker 2: DeSantis's politics, having explored this campaign together with you on

538
00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:56,720
Speaker 2: a daily basis. But Terry Haynes, since we're talking about

539
00:27:56,800 --> 00:27:58,760
Speaker 2: Terry here for a moment, made a pretty good point

540
00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:01,960
Speaker 2: saying that you don't need somebody to slap the Pentagon around,

541
00:28:02,000 --> 00:28:04,840
Speaker 2: which was I think the Hegseth concept. You need someone

542
00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:09,680
Speaker 2: who can bring structural efficiency to a vast, wide ranging

543
00:28:09,760 --> 00:28:13,800
Speaker 2: agency that sucks up a lot of taxpayer money. Is

544
00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:15,840
Speaker 2: Ronda Santis the man for that job.

545
00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:20,359
Speaker 7: I think he may be nominated by Trump. Should Pete

546
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:22,960
Speaker 7: Hegseth go away. You know, it's always suspicious to me

547
00:28:23,119 --> 00:28:26,199
Speaker 7: when somebody starts talking about themselves in the plural, like

548
00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:30,000
Speaker 7: we aren't going anywhere, Joe. So I think Pete megs

549
00:28:30,000 --> 00:28:32,680
Speaker 7: Seth's time is probably numbered.

550
00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:33,280
Speaker 2: I agree.

551
00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:35,880
Speaker 7: I agree with Rick and Terry. I think it could

552
00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:39,640
Speaker 7: be as early as today. He's literally hanging on a thread.

553
00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:42,080
Speaker 7: You know that when you send your mother out on

554
00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:44,640
Speaker 7: Fox News to try to walk back an email from

555
00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:47,960
Speaker 7: seven years ago. And oh, by the way, Penelope Hegseth

556
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:50,080
Speaker 7: did say, Joe, which is good news for you that

557
00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:52,560
Speaker 7: his time as a host on Fox News has prepared

558
00:28:52,640 --> 00:28:55,600
Speaker 7: him to lead the Pentagon. So you have a shot

559
00:28:55,680 --> 00:28:59,880
Speaker 7: Joe Matthew to get in there and lead it. That said,

560
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:03,840
Speaker 7: I think you know Ron DeSantis, Yes, he's qualified. If nominated,

561
00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:06,920
Speaker 7: he could certainly get the nod from the Senate. I

562
00:29:06,960 --> 00:29:12,000
Speaker 7: think my challenge with Ron DeSantis is that, yes, Terry

563
00:29:12,080 --> 00:29:15,360
Speaker 7: is right, it needs structural reform. It doesn't need to

564
00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:16,200
Speaker 7: be blown up.

565
00:29:16,240 --> 00:29:17,720
Speaker 2: It needs structural reform.

566
00:29:18,760 --> 00:29:21,800
Speaker 7: The problem is, Ron DeSantis is among those people who

567
00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:25,800
Speaker 7: consistently says that the biggest problem in the Pentagon is

568
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:30,280
Speaker 7: DEI and that is just the height of ridiculousness. We

569
00:29:30,360 --> 00:29:33,040
Speaker 7: have a lot of problems in the Pentagon in our defense,

570
00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:37,560
Speaker 7: including the fact that we are not moving forward adopting

571
00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:40,920
Speaker 7: new technologies and it's a very dangerous world out there,

572
00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:44,840
Speaker 7: but the idea that it's DEI is suspect. So I

573
00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:47,680
Speaker 7: think in hope Ron DeSantis rethinks that if he is

574
00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:48,640
Speaker 7: indeed nominated.

575
00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:52,240
Speaker 2: Rick Davis, You're a political practitioner. You know how to

576
00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:55,720
Speaker 2: use the media when it benefits your candidate. You've been

577
00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:57,920
Speaker 2: through this in a lot of different ways, and I

578
00:29:57,960 --> 00:30:00,440
Speaker 2: wonder your thoughts about this putting mom on far News

579
00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:04,240
Speaker 2: this morning. Let's listen to Penelope Hegseth from earlier today.

580
00:30:04,960 --> 00:30:07,880
Speaker 8: They were going through Pete and his wife at the time,

581
00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:10,520
Speaker 8: we're going through a very difficult divorce. It was a

582
00:30:10,640 --> 00:30:13,920
Speaker 8: very emotional time, and I'm sure many of you across

583
00:30:13,920 --> 00:30:18,040
Speaker 8: the country understand how difficult divorce is on a family.

584
00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:24,240
Speaker 8: There's emotions, we say things, and I wrote that in haste.

585
00:30:24,840 --> 00:30:28,720
Speaker 8: I wrote that with deep emotions. I wrote that as

586
00:30:28,760 --> 00:30:31,840
Speaker 8: a parent. About two hours later, I retracted it with

587
00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:35,120
Speaker 8: an apology email. But nobody's seen.

588
00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:39,160
Speaker 2: That, Rick. Does this help or does it simply remind

589
00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:41,680
Speaker 2: us of the trouble facing Pete Hegseth.

590
00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:45,320
Speaker 6: I think it's a horrible reminder of the trouble facing

591
00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:48,680
Speaker 6: Pete Hegseseth. I mean the idea that you've got to

592
00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:52,040
Speaker 6: pull your mom out of the shadows and put her

593
00:30:52,080 --> 00:30:55,880
Speaker 6: on national TV and explain away a note that she

594
00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:59,240
Speaker 6: wrote in haste. I mean it's a family matter. And

595
00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:02,920
Speaker 6: I feel really sorry for Penelope to have to go

596
00:31:02,920 --> 00:31:05,360
Speaker 6: out there and talk about something as painful as it was.

597
00:31:05,480 --> 00:31:09,040
Speaker 6: And and it does remind people that you know that

598
00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:14,520
Speaker 6: that Pete Hesath has had trouble keeping marriages together. Look,

599
00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:20,000
Speaker 6: it's a criminal violation if you're uniform military to have adultery, right,

600
00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:23,920
Speaker 6: you get drummed out, you get you get prosecuted. It's

601
00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:29,760
Speaker 6: not like civilian, UH standards. And so it's just another

602
00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:35,560
Speaker 6: reminder how unfit Pete Hegsath is to command, you know,

603
00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:40,760
Speaker 6: the Department of Defense. So honestly, I actually think probably

604
00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:44,479
Speaker 6: did more harm than good. I guess hegh has has

605
00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:47,640
Speaker 6: done an interview with Megan Kelly little Air shortly, and

606
00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:50,600
Speaker 6: you know, I just I just think these campaigns tend

607
00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:54,880
Speaker 6: to backfire on the candidates who are doing this. The

608
00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:58,440
Speaker 6: best possible way to get confirmed is keep your head

609
00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:02,120
Speaker 6: down below the radar and make very positive meetings with

610
00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:05,440
Speaker 6: senators and don't make it a big pr campaign.

611
00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:08,840
Speaker 2: All Right, we just got another one. This is a breaker,

612
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:10,680
Speaker 2: and it's one that we've been waiting for. In fact,

613
00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:12,840
Speaker 2: I think I just referred to it as the last

614
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:17,760
Speaker 2: big hole to fill. SEC Chair Gary Gensler will be

615
00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:21,560
Speaker 2: replaced by if Donald Trump has his way. Paul Atkins

616
00:32:22,240 --> 00:32:25,760
Speaker 2: Donald Trump on Truth Social announcing this just a moment ago,

617
00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:30,160
Speaker 2: calling Paul a proven leader for common sense regulations he believes,

618
00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:32,959
Speaker 2: Donald Trump says, and the promise of robust, innovative capital

619
00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:36,600
Speaker 2: markets that are responsive to the needs of investors and

620
00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:39,320
Speaker 2: provide capital to make our economy the best in the world.

621
00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:46,840
Speaker 2: CEO and founder of Potomac Global Partners, a risk management consultancy, Genie.

622
00:32:46,840 --> 00:32:49,160
Speaker 2: And this is one that we had seen some whisper

623
00:32:49,320 --> 00:32:54,160
Speaker 2: reporting about here the crypto world saw this coming as

624
00:32:54,200 --> 00:32:57,160
Speaker 2: the next chair of the SEC. Any surprise to use

625
00:32:57,200 --> 00:32:59,480
Speaker 2: this someone who could make the grade.

626
00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:04,640
Speaker 7: He absolutely can make the grade. Former SEC chair. He

627
00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:07,680
Speaker 7: was somebody who has described a lot, as you know,

628
00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:12,040
Speaker 7: really hesitant to jump into this. That he felt that

629
00:33:12,080 --> 00:33:15,160
Speaker 7: Gensler had done so much damage that to try to

630
00:33:15,240 --> 00:33:18,040
Speaker 7: work the SEC out of the damage that it has

631
00:33:18,160 --> 00:33:21,960
Speaker 7: experienced under Gensler, in his view, was not quite terribly

632
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:25,560
Speaker 7: an attractive idea for him. So he became something of like,

633
00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:30,360
Speaker 7: you know, a reluctant warrior here, and Donald Trump seemed

634
00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:33,600
Speaker 7: very keen on him for a long time. And so

635
00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:37,520
Speaker 7: it is I think to Donald Trump's benefit that he

636
00:33:37,680 --> 00:33:40,120
Speaker 7: is agreed to take this. I don't think there will

637
00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:42,920
Speaker 7: be you know, barring something comes out, it's hard to believe.

638
00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:45,920
Speaker 7: I don't think there will be any challenge here with Atkins,

639
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:48,480
Speaker 7: and he is going to have quite a lot of

640
00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:51,200
Speaker 7: work ahead of him. They also reported that, you know,

641
00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:53,760
Speaker 7: he wasn't quite sure he wanted to leave the life

642
00:33:53,800 --> 00:33:57,680
Speaker 7: he's built for himself in this new area, but that

643
00:33:57,840 --> 00:34:00,800
Speaker 7: he seems to be willing to jump out into service

644
00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:03,040
Speaker 7: for the president. So I think this is a good

645
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:04,080
Speaker 7: pick for the president.

646
00:34:05,360 --> 00:34:07,040
Speaker 2: What are the markets going to think about this? Rick,

647
00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:09,680
Speaker 2: You of course work in the investment banking world's private

648
00:34:09,719 --> 00:34:13,520
Speaker 2: equity world. We've got a former SEC commissioner on the docket.

649
00:34:13,520 --> 00:34:16,520
Speaker 2: Now this is a good look for Trump. Yeah, it's

650
00:34:16,520 --> 00:34:17,400
Speaker 2: a good look for Trump.

651
00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:21,919
Speaker 6: I mean his conversion to crypto enthusiast is now complete, right,

652
00:34:22,000 --> 00:34:25,279
Speaker 6: I mean, he's gone completely all in. He's got a

653
00:34:25,360 --> 00:34:29,520
Speaker 6: guy who not only is well schooled in it from

654
00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:33,000
Speaker 6: a technical point of view, but understands it from a

655
00:34:33,000 --> 00:34:35,640
Speaker 6: marketing point of view too, because he's been doing it

656
00:34:36,120 --> 00:34:38,520
Speaker 6: in his firm in New York. So he's going to

657
00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:42,040
Speaker 6: come in and completely turn around the agency's attitude and

658
00:34:42,080 --> 00:34:47,240
Speaker 6: the administration's policy on crypto. And give give Donald Trump credit.

659
00:34:47,320 --> 00:34:52,160
Speaker 6: He was a new to the issue convert. But everything

660
00:34:52,200 --> 00:34:56,160
Speaker 6: he's done in his administration has aligned with this, you know,

661
00:34:56,200 --> 00:35:00,640
Speaker 6: from the perspective of financial markets adopting crypto. And I

662
00:35:00,680 --> 00:35:04,239
Speaker 6: think we can add another sort of gold star on

663
00:35:04,320 --> 00:35:08,839
Speaker 6: the Trump trade Crypto to be something to watch now

664
00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:09,440
Speaker 6: in the future.

665
00:35:10,719 --> 00:35:13,279
Speaker 2: Bitcoin, for what it's worth is not about a half

666
00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:15,520
Speaker 2: percent five hundred dollars right now. We're just floating above

667
00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:21,800
Speaker 2: ninety five thousand dollars for a single coin at this point, Genie,

668
00:35:21,800 --> 00:35:24,480
Speaker 2: this is a crypto story though. Right we're replacing Gary

669
00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:27,800
Speaker 2: Gensler with his polar opposite. And that is what Donald

670
00:35:27,800 --> 00:35:28,560
Speaker 2: Trump promised.

671
00:35:30,320 --> 00:35:33,240
Speaker 7: It absolutely is, and I think this is why Donald

672
00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:36,560
Speaker 7: Trump has been so keen on this appointment, despite the

673
00:35:36,640 --> 00:35:39,279
Speaker 7: reluctance that we heard there was on the receiving end.

674
00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:43,280
Speaker 7: I think it's in part due to his commitment to crypto.

675
00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:46,600
Speaker 7: And so this truly is a crypto story, and I

676
00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:49,440
Speaker 7: have to reiterate again, I think the markets will react

677
00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:53,399
Speaker 7: well to this. This is a serious, serious pick. This

678
00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:56,560
Speaker 7: is a former SEC chair. That's not to say people

679
00:35:56,640 --> 00:35:59,120
Speaker 7: necessarily agree with his vision as to where to take

680
00:35:59,160 --> 00:36:01,799
Speaker 7: the sec S. You've got a lot of people who

681
00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:05,480
Speaker 7: won't agree with it, but it's certainly a person who

682
00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:07,920
Speaker 7: comes in knowing what he needs to do and wants

683
00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:11,200
Speaker 7: to do, and has the full throttled support of the

684
00:36:11,239 --> 00:36:14,279
Speaker 7: President behind him, and comes, as you mentioned, with this

685
00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:17,640
Speaker 7: view of crypto, very much supporting what Donald Trump has

686
00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:19,920
Speaker 7: said of late on that point, at least in the

687
00:36:20,080 --> 00:36:21,880
Speaker 7: end of this campaign that he's been running.

688
00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:25,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, pretty remarkable. So here we are, Rick Davis. On

689
00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:28,440
Speaker 2: the fourth of December, we started talking about some of

690
00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:31,719
Speaker 2: the trials facing Pete HeiG Seth. We've already had one

691
00:36:31,800 --> 00:36:34,799
Speaker 2: withdrawal two in fact, Matt Gates and Donald Trump's pick

692
00:36:34,840 --> 00:36:38,960
Speaker 2: for DEA. That's not a huge story in the grand

693
00:36:39,000 --> 00:36:41,680
Speaker 2: scheme here. But how's Trump doing, How's mar A Lago

694
00:36:41,719 --> 00:36:43,040
Speaker 2: doing at this stage of the game.

695
00:36:44,160 --> 00:36:46,600
Speaker 6: Well, I got to say he's ahead of most any

696
00:36:46,640 --> 00:36:50,680
Speaker 6: other modern presidency when it comes to actually making these announcements.

697
00:36:51,719 --> 00:36:53,839
Speaker 6: Some of them are messy, and we're seeing that right

698
00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:59,239
Speaker 6: now with Pete Heggsa's nomination and former Congressman Gates not

699
00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:01,680
Speaker 6: being able to make it all the way to the

700
00:37:01,760 --> 00:37:05,000
Speaker 6: Justice Apartment. But that's part of his you know, sort

701
00:37:05,040 --> 00:37:08,160
Speaker 6: of role as provocateur, right throwing these folks out, getting

702
00:37:08,160 --> 00:37:11,520
Speaker 6: them into the mix, making it part of the dialogue,

703
00:37:11,560 --> 00:37:14,959
Speaker 6: and then never missing a beat to replace them if they,

704
00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:18,640
Speaker 6: you know, aren't able to make the great. So my

705
00:37:18,719 --> 00:37:20,960
Speaker 6: guess is that this is going we're going to look

706
00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:23,680
Speaker 6: back and say, Wow, what a different transition than in

707
00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:28,120
Speaker 6: twenty sixteen with Trump, who really wasn't prepared and you know,

708
00:37:28,239 --> 00:37:33,520
Speaker 6: had a lot of this you know, distemper inside the transition.

709
00:37:33,719 --> 00:37:37,760
Speaker 6: This one has been uniformly good and frankly not leaking

710
00:37:37,800 --> 00:37:40,920
Speaker 6: at all. We're hearing these names for the first time.

711
00:37:41,280 --> 00:37:46,560
Speaker 6: There's very little news getting out that's not official, and frankly,

712
00:37:46,680 --> 00:37:49,399
Speaker 6: for the purposes of the public, it's it's great.

713
00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:53,759
Speaker 2: There you have it from Rick Davis and Genie Shanzeno

714
00:37:53,840 --> 00:37:56,040
Speaker 2: with us in the clutch here Paul Atkins to be

715
00:37:56,080 --> 00:37:59,520
Speaker 2: the next Chairman of the Securities and Exchange Commission. Thank

716
00:37:59,560 --> 00:38:03,360
Speaker 2: you so much to our signature panel for the perfect

717
00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:06,080
Speaker 2: tone that we needed on this day. Rick Davis and

718
00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:12,640
Speaker 2: Genie Shanzeno, thanks for listening to the Balance of Power podcast.

719
00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:16,400
Speaker 2: Make sure to subscribe if you haven't already. At Apple, Spotify,

720
00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:19,080
Speaker 2: or wherever you get your podcasts, and you can find

721
00:38:19,160 --> 00:38:22,400
Speaker 2: us live every weekday from Washington, DC at noontime Eastern

722
00:38:22,680 --> 00:38:24,120
Speaker 2: at Bloomberg dot com