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Speaker 1: This is the Meat Eater Podcast coming at you shirtless, severely,

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Speaker 1: bug bitten, and in my case, underwear listeningcast. You can't

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Speaker 1: predict anything.

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Speaker 2: The Meat Eater Podcast is brought to you by First Light.

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Speaker 2: Whether you're checking trail cams, hanging deer stands, or scouting

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Speaker 2: for el, First Light has performance apparel to support every

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Speaker 2: hunter in every environment. Check it out at first light

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Speaker 2: dot com. F I R S T L I T

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Speaker 2: E dot com.

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Speaker 1: Oh you know what I would wish I could make

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Speaker 1: you know? At the where the where Matthew plays soccer. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they have these bathrooms in there. They're like the most indestructible.

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Speaker 3: Like made out of some synthetic material.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, like welded stainless urinals and like like just like cacking.

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Speaker 4: I mean you could go near the pressure washer.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that is a bathroom.

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Speaker 5: Man, here's a quick journal story for you.

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Speaker 6: Love it.

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Speaker 1: Have you ever fished anyone out of a vault?

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Speaker 6: This sounds like we should be recording you are we are?

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Speaker 7: We are.

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Speaker 4: Can you turn the machine.

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Speaker 8: On machines on so that it fails first?

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Speaker 4: Can you make a point to start it with this

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Speaker 4: urinal sort?

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Speaker 5: We will do so. The computers we use at work.

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Speaker 5: Are tough books, so they're big tanks. They're ten pounds there.

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Speaker 1: Ladies and gentlemen, this is a game Montana game warden

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Speaker 1: and Adam pancrats telling you this story. We're introduce some

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Speaker 1: more thoroughly in a minute.

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Speaker 5: So these computers are they're tough books. You can supposedly

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Speaker 5: drive a tank over them, shoot them whatever. They're there.

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Speaker 5: They're laptops that are meant to be used in the field.

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Speaker 5: So if you drop your laptop, more than likely the

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Speaker 5: screen is going to break ours. Hopefully it won't. Well,

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Speaker 5: we were doing training in a Montana city here in

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Speaker 5: Region three, using a public meeting room, and one of

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Speaker 5: our wardens was using the bathroom using the Jurnal, and

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Speaker 5: I think he had a tough book tucked under his

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Speaker 5: his arm as he was using the Jurnal standing there

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Speaker 5: at some point that the computer slips from his hands,

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Speaker 5: drops to the floor, bounces up so hard, hits the

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Speaker 5: bottom of the journal and shatters the porcelain journal in

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Speaker 5: the in the public restroom.

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Speaker 4: Brought to book.

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Speaker 8: That's a good twist.

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Speaker 1: That's great.

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Speaker 5: So then I had to go explain to the host,

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Speaker 5: the person who runs the facility, thank you for letting

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Speaker 5: us use your facility for our training meeting. However, we

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Speaker 5: destroyed one of your journals with our computer.

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Speaker 1: Laptop destroyed your Jurnal.

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Speaker 5: The laptop was fine, but urinal completely. We've never used

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Speaker 5: that that building since then. We I'm sure we're welcome back.

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Speaker 1: But the problem you have that you might not realize

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Speaker 1: is there's no way that they believe you that that's

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Speaker 1: what happened.

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Speaker 6: No wet some banned.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, then they kind of tried tell me it was

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Speaker 4: a laptop.

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Speaker 5: Well, it's in the town of West Yellowstone. I think

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Speaker 5: they're kind of used to it. If you've ever been

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Speaker 5: down there and you see some of the signs in

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Speaker 5: the public bathrooms directing people like not to stand on

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Speaker 5: toilets down there and stuff because the cultural differences and

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Speaker 5: how they use toilets, and so they are constantly having

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Speaker 5: toilets broken down there based on just people misusing or

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Speaker 5: not using toilets.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, my culture is like that old sn L commercial

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Speaker 8: where they're all disposable, So every time I use one,

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Speaker 8: I then break it.

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Speaker 1: Join today by Adam Pancrats, Montana game Warden. Give your

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Speaker 1: specific do you guys call it rank? What do you

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Speaker 1: guys call it.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, we have ranks or title give me So I'm

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Speaker 5: a game warden captain for Southwest Montana. There's eight captains

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Speaker 5: that run different parts of the agency or different areas.

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Speaker 5: So Southwest Montana's mine. We have game wardens, we have

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Speaker 5: regional investigators, sergeants, captains, assistant chief chief Those are kind

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Speaker 5: of all of our ranks spread out through the state.

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Speaker 1: If there's seven regions, why is there eight?

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Speaker 5: The eighth one is our investigative unit. I see, So

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Speaker 5: there's a captain who kind of runs our investigative unit.

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Speaker 5: So there's regional investigators, which are kind of like detectives

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Speaker 5: that work in the region, and then we have an

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Speaker 5: investigative squad up in Helen.

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Speaker 1: And those detectives are playing some kind of like playing

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Speaker 1: closed detective correct and they work on more longer term yep.

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Speaker 5: So so longer term wildlife cases, commercial cases, those type

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Speaker 5: of things. So we have field wardens are out there

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Speaker 5: in the field in uniform, and then a plane closed

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Speaker 5: kind of unit that helps out with stuff long term,

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Speaker 5: takes over cases when they go multi county, multi district,

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Speaker 5: across the state, maybe multi state, all those type of things.

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Speaker 1: You know, you know what I wish we would have

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Speaker 1: done know how to do this next time, we should

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Speaker 1: do a thing. We've always talked about having call in capabilities.

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Speaker 1: We should do a thing, ask a game work, we

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Speaker 1: just have the line.

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Speaker 3: I was thinking, we should have just solicited the whole

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Speaker 3: office for questions and just did nothing but questions.

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Speaker 1: Bunch, Yeah, like we keep joing like a bunch of people.

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Speaker 1: Be like, so a friend of mine, hypothetically a friend

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Speaker 1: of mine, yeah, you know, pulling into the parking lot

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Speaker 1: seeing that game boarding truck, I bout backed out. I

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Speaker 1: was like, oh that's right.

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Speaker 6: Well how about how about how about our buddy, uh

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Speaker 6: Stewart down there at Crooked Sky, remember who lives across

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Speaker 6: the street.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, oh, we haven't talked about this. We did need

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Speaker 1: to talk about this.

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Speaker 6: About that, and then the other thing, which is our

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Speaker 6: big trip.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: The main thing is he's an outfitter. He's an outfitter

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Speaker 1: and he literally is across the street.

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Speaker 5: Did he choose that? Did he move the.

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Speaker 6: Board and moved in? Yeah?

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Speaker 4: So he says there's two ways looking at him.

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Speaker 1: One you gotta keep on the up and or you're

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Speaker 1: just hiding and playing sight and they'll just assume, Well,

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Speaker 1: that guy over.

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Speaker 5: There's no way so you guys could prescribe to keep

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Speaker 5: your enemies close. Is that what you're telling me.

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Speaker 4: When this but this happened to him, he did not

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Speaker 4: pick the spot.

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Speaker 1: We had a good laugh about it.

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Speaker 8: When I was doing deal with Idaho fishing game a

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Speaker 8: couple of years ago, they had a case study on

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Speaker 8: using like over the counter trackers GPS trackers for the

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Speaker 8: first time, and the these research things out on the

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Speaker 8: prairie kept disappearing very expensive. Plus they were there doing

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Speaker 8: I think sage grouse research maybe, and they put you know,

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Speaker 8: like an Apple tracking device or you know, one of

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Speaker 8: the over the counter little trackers that you can keep

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Speaker 8: on your phone. And the warden who was in charge

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Speaker 8: of this case was super annoyed with it because it

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Speaker 8: would go off any anytime there was like a wrong

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Speaker 8: wind on the prairie, you know, the piece of merchandise

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Speaker 8: would shake and it would alert on his phone. And

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Speaker 8: he started going out there and nothing would happen. And

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Speaker 8: then sure enough, at like the very end of the season,

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Speaker 8: like the onset of winter, the thing goes off on

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Speaker 8: his phone and he's like, oh, that is right next

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Speaker 8: to my house. And his next door neighbor was the

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Speaker 8: person like the very rural part of Idaho, but like

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Speaker 8: the third house up on the street is the person

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Speaker 8: that this guy had spent like two years trying to catch.

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Speaker 8: And they go and what it was. It was a

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Speaker 8: solar powered hot fence units, but had had some other

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Speaker 8: fancy stuff in there for the research dealing. This gentleman

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Speaker 8: had decided they would be better served repurpose to run

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Speaker 8: a hot fence around his chicken coop.

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Speaker 1: Sure years ago, I was working on a story about

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Speaker 1: livestock theft, a magazine feature about livestock theft, and I

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Speaker 1: was with these wural crime investigators and when remember when

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Speaker 1: scrap got super high, Like one of the times scrap

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Speaker 1: met was super high.

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Speaker 4: It was so bad.

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Speaker 1: He said they would just go and throw tracking devices

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Speaker 1: into irrigation pipe. Then just wait, because you just knew

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Speaker 1: if you told a guy like, oh yeah, just stack

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Speaker 1: a bunch of irrigation pipe by the road and we'll

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Speaker 1: throw a sensor in there. Sure enough, it was because

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Speaker 1: when it was hot, it was hot. On on. Then

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Speaker 1: the Real Crime Task Force, Uh oh, another that we

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Speaker 1: covered this years ago. Do you remember the guy that

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Speaker 1: they had they were doing the turkey banding. They had

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Speaker 1: turkeys with tracking devices on them, and then one day

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Speaker 1: get a turkey, you know, going down the highway and

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Speaker 1: he says, it winds up. They wind up tracking down

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Speaker 1: his turkey and he's walking around and realizes that, hey,

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Speaker 1: this turkey is hiding under a big pile of firewood.

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Speaker 1: It was there. It was their dead turkey that some

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Speaker 1: guy of us have realized they had the censor and

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Speaker 1: somehow thought that like burying it in firewood would take

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Speaker 1: care of the problem on.

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Speaker 6: His own place.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it was on his place and he got scared

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Speaker 1: and buried in an under a pile of fire would

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Speaker 1: like that would like disturb the transmission of the signal

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Speaker 1: or something. And there was another guy that rode in

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Speaker 1: at the same time. I think they would have been

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Speaker 1: the same turkey study. They found one of their turkeys.

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Speaker 1: They tracked it to a hotel, and it was with

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Speaker 1: a gentleman in a hotel.

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Speaker 8: Uh, picked it up on fire like Craig's book or Craigslist.

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Speaker 4: No, he had brought the turkey.

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Speaker 8: No, you know how hotel?

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 3: That's how conspiracy theories about. Like people that are like, oh,

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Speaker 3: they got trackers and the animals all over the place.

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Speaker 3: You hear like weird conspiracy theories about when people poach deer,

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Speaker 3: like they know where you know.

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Speaker 1: Oh, do you know there's a new one floating around

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Speaker 1: out there right now that someone has asked me about.

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Speaker 1: This is the best one. Yeah, that they're given. Uh.

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Speaker 1: They're in order to get conservative rural people to take

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Speaker 1: the vaccine. They're actually getting there putting the vaccine into

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Speaker 1: deer and then you eat the deer meat.

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Speaker 4: I'm like, that's mighty efficient.

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Speaker 3: Get your protein in your vaccine.

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Speaker 1: At the same it's a very efficient way to administer this.

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Speaker 1: Buddy of mine text me like, hey, man, do you

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Speaker 1: think this is true?

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Speaker 3: Uh?

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Speaker 1: Denver, Colorado Media your live tour, some of this is

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Speaker 1: gonna be sold out by now, I think.

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Speaker 4: Media Your live tour starts December six.

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Speaker 6: Hold on, before you start this, do you have all

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Speaker 6: your notes?

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Speaker 1: This is gonna be the best one I do. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I got it pulled up in front of you. This

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Speaker 1: is gonna be a rousing one. What is meet that

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Speaker 1: your live I'd ask, well, it's a bunch of things.

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Speaker 1: One thing it is it starts out as a concert.

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Speaker 1: So you go down and our very own Chester Floyd Chester,

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Speaker 1: the Midwester, who has opened now for Trampled by Turtles.

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Speaker 1: He's he's a famous musician. H Chester the Midwestern is

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Speaker 1: gonna do a song and kick things off like he

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Speaker 1: did at our. The last live show he did was

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Speaker 1: in Billings. We just did a one off in Billings, Montana,

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Speaker 1: and we just had the random idea to have Chester

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Speaker 1: open the show. So Chess is gonna open the show.

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Speaker 1: Lots of Chester concert tickets there. We're gonna have We're

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Speaker 1: gonna talk about news, funny stuff, slide shows, trivia components.

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Speaker 1: We have guests joining us. We just signed up another

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Speaker 1: great guest for one of the shows coming up. So

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Speaker 1: we got like Kevin. These are all people I have

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Speaker 1: sort of texted with but we haven't finalized everything.

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Speaker 8: But so hopefully they're listening.

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Speaker 4: Kevin Murphy's gonna.

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Speaker 1: Be joining us on some of the nights. Giannis You

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Speaker 1: tell Us is there every night. Ryan Callahan's there, some

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Speaker 1: of the Knights, Clay Newcome's there some of the night.

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Speaker 1: We got some one off people. We got Darren Wolf,

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Speaker 1: Jason Fisher, the you know, I talked to him. We

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Speaker 1: haven't formalized it, but uh, we got weights and Fish

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Speaker 1: Walleye tournament administrator. He's gonna join us in Cleveland, all

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Speaker 1: kinds of stuff. I got buddies from back home. They're

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Speaker 1: gonna join us on some of the our Michigan shows.

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Speaker 1: So every night there's stuff, there's trivia components. We decided

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Speaker 1: on this last night. It's gonna go like this. We're

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Speaker 1: gonna have audience members selected to come up and play

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Speaker 1: trivia and win stuff. So when you go there, if

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Speaker 1: you we're gonna sell our new Trivia board game, which

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Speaker 1: is available right now. You can go buy it right now.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna sell our new trivia board game at the events.

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Speaker 1: Select Trivia board games are gonna have a secret thing.

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Speaker 1: If you get the Select Trivia Board Game with the

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Speaker 1: secret thing, you come up on stage and then you

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Speaker 1: got to win a casting contest, spinning round. We're gonna

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Speaker 1: have multiple We're gonna have fly spinning, bait casting. But

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Speaker 1: then thought it'd just be equal equipment.

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Speaker 9: Yeah, not everyone can do all those spinning rod.

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Speaker 1: No, No, you can take your pick accuracy contest. So you're

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Speaker 1: gonna have a spinning rod. There'll be a light action

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Speaker 1: spinning rod with a three eighths casting plug in.

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Speaker 4: A galvanized washtub.

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Speaker 9: Nice.

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Speaker 4: The victor in.

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Speaker 1: That will compete in trivia and they can use and

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Speaker 1: you're gonna win stuff.

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Speaker 4: It's gonna be a great night. All the VIP stuff

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Speaker 4: is all gone.

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Speaker 1: I believe.

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Speaker 4: All the VIP tickets are all gone. But so it's

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Speaker 4: gonna be a ton of fun.

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Speaker 1: Denver, Colorado, on December sixth, Mission Ballroom. Have we done

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Speaker 1: the Michigan ball Mission Ballroom?

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Speaker 6: Yannie, Nothing I know.

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Speaker 1: Of Folly Theater in Kansas City Capital Theater, and I

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Speaker 1: say it so. Kansas City is December seventh, Capital Theater

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Speaker 1: December nine. That means we need to find something entertaining

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Speaker 1: somewhere between Kansas City and Davenport. On December eighth, e.

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Speaker 8: Stillant season.

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Speaker 9: I say, pheasants.

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Speaker 1: Probably something entertaining. You know that our our most I

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Speaker 1: don't want to say the names. I don't want everybody

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Speaker 1: to go be talking to her. We have a recent

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Speaker 1: hire here who's from a farm in Iowa. What goes

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Speaker 1: on at that farm? Like shockingly unaware of what goes

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Speaker 1: on out at the farm In terms of hunting.

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Speaker 4: She was surprised.

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Speaker 1: Some guys used to come from far away to hunt turks,

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Speaker 1: but they haven't been there in years, but there's dudes

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Speaker 1: that hunt pheasants out there. But she said her parents said,

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Speaker 1: I don't care if you want to come out. Wait,

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Speaker 1: who's I'm not telling it's gonna take it too long

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Speaker 1: to figure it out, though.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, because it's just a quick zip on over to Iowa.

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Speaker 1: Well, they're like.

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Speaker 8: The office, the no, the ranch, the property to hunt.

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Speaker 1: Oh well, no, you have to talk to her yees. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: well I just gave the gender away. You're narrow. You're

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Speaker 1: narrow right now, You're narrow this right down December did

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Speaker 1: I Davenport, Iowa, December ninth, Kalamazoo, Michigan December tenth.

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Speaker 6: Which is Dangaire sold out.

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Speaker 1: To Detroit, Michigan, Royal Oak Music Theater December eleventh. That's

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Speaker 1: gonna be a fun one. Cleveland, Ohio, Agora Theater December thirteenth.

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Speaker 1: Means I'm gonna go visit my mom on December twelfth. Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania,

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Speaker 1: Carnegie of Homestead Music Hall December fourteenth.

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Speaker 6: Oh, can we maybe sneak in a little ice fishing?

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Speaker 6: Or that be too early?

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Speaker 1: That's it really depends on the climate, which doesn't It's

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Speaker 1: not an ice angler's friend these days.

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Speaker 3: He's a little too far south.

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Speaker 1: Philadelphia, December fifteenth, Keswick Theater. Get your tickets to come

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Speaker 1: on out. It'll be a very good time. Okay, I

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Speaker 1: do that.

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Speaker 9: Hang tight, they're gonna struggle to find something cool to

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Speaker 9: do in Philadelphia. Why come on, there's just not a

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Speaker 9: whole lot going on there.

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Speaker 1: The other we'll do it in the other direction because

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Speaker 1: Levi Morgan, the world's greatest archer, Like, categorically the world's

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Speaker 1: best archer.

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Speaker 4: Is joining us for the Pittsburgh Show.

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Speaker 3: That's during Pennsylvania's rifle season. I'll let you know.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, but he's a big bow hunter, so maybe we

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Speaker 4: can squirrel hunt his place.

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Speaker 3: Squirrel won't be open because it's rifle season. What small

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Speaker 3: game is not open in Pennsylvania.

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Speaker 4: Pennsylvania needs a new.

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Speaker 3: I'm just letting you know. It's not like, don't yell

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Speaker 3: at me.

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Speaker 4: How could Pennsylvania justify that.

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Speaker 1: They're like they're horrible, improving but horrible history on Sunday

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Speaker 1: hunting and then you can't hunt squirrels during deer season.

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Speaker 3: Dude, there's a lot of hunters in pennsil Yeah.

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Speaker 10: I think it's just the amount of hunters in on

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Speaker 10: game lands and public land at that point in time,

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Speaker 10: just like people also out there squirrel hunting.

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Speaker 9: It's just it muddies the waters, I think.

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Speaker 3: Then it opens back up after Christmas.

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Speaker 1: We get stories now and then of bow hunters who

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Speaker 1: will have the audacity to come in.

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Speaker 4: A cost.

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Speaker 1: It might be a strong word. Does that imply something

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Speaker 1: physical happened.

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Speaker 3: Verbally cost to verbally a cost?

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Speaker 1: I should look a look that up real quick.

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Speaker 6: No, No, I'm I'm with Brody. I'm one hundred percent sure

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Speaker 6: that you can just verb It does not have to

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Speaker 6: be physical.

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Speaker 1: Verbal to verbally a cost. Verbally a cost. Squirrel hunters

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Speaker 1: as though their right and they have a greater right

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Speaker 1: to be in the woods. Sure in this Philadelphia or

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Speaker 1: Pennsylvania deal lends credence to that.

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Speaker 3: No, No, Pennsylvania's got a real short rifle season.

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Speaker 9: It's like two weeks anyways.

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Speaker 6: Okay, who's smarter than me can tell me how to

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Speaker 6: spell a cost? Accost to approach and speak to someone

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Speaker 6: in an often challenging or aggressive way, is what Mariam said?

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Speaker 3: Does that a lot steep a cost people a lot?

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Speaker 6: Oh?

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Speaker 1: Sure? But not scrollings man, they should that's a great definition.

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Speaker 1: It is because it conforms the what.

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Speaker 4: I thought it was, which makes it good.

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Speaker 1: The meet at Or calendar. This year's calendar is out.

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Speaker 1: It's called the Dirty Dozen. Go and check that out.

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Speaker 1: We put a lot of work into that calendar. Not

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Speaker 1: as much as normal, but a lot.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it's nice to change it up too.

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Speaker 1: We'll go back to the old style next year. But

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Speaker 1: like I said, this year's dirty doesen't. It's twelve months,

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Speaker 1: so there's twelve seasons of meat Eater. It's twelve months

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Speaker 1: in a year. Each month is a season.

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Speaker 4: And guess what we did. January is the first season.

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Speaker 3: A lot of cess pictures in there, a lot.

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Speaker 1: Of Seth Morris photography in there. Check that out. The

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Speaker 1: trivia board game is out. The only board game where

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Speaker 1: conservation always wins. A dollar from every board game sold

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Speaker 1: goes to conservation organizations. It's a great trivia board game.

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Speaker 1: It's meant to be highly mobile. We kicked around different

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Speaker 1: things with stupid boards and whatnot, but it's just the

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Speaker 1: same setup we have. It comes with hundreds of question cards,

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Speaker 1: comes a little mini dry erase boards, dry race markers.

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Speaker 4: It's travel friendly.

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Speaker 1: It's a great gift I have had and we still

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Speaker 1: have one on our fishack. I have owned over the

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Speaker 1: years the stupidest worst outdoor trivia games where they don't

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Speaker 1: that the makers wouldn't understand the difference between objectivity and

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Speaker 1: subjectivity and questions, meaning a question would be.

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Speaker 4: Like what's the best deer cartridge?

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Speaker 1: That's not trivia, that's like, that's an opinion game, which

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Speaker 1: if there was a way to have an opinion game,

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Speaker 1: I would be all in.

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Speaker 3: Well, there's an opinion game on cartridges on the website.

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Speaker 6: Right, but everybody knows it's a three to eight win.

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Speaker 1: I'll give I want to.

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Speaker 6: I think that we're going to see a lot get

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Speaker 6: a lot. People said, should send us pictures of playing

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Speaker 6: the new board game at deer Camp.

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Speaker 3: Well, I was just going to ask if there's any

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Speaker 3: prototypes around that we could take on the youth hunt.

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Speaker 6: There are.

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Speaker 1: I gave one away. I gave away a random I

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Speaker 1: came on away to a random person. I said, don't

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Speaker 1: show anybody that, but no one that works here because

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Speaker 1: they'll get mad.

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Speaker 3: That'd be fun with the kids.

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Speaker 1: And then the guy probably runs and shows everybody, and

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Speaker 1: then five people are going, did you get one of

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00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:36,159
Speaker 1: the board games? Waited like some guy out the parking lot.

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Speaker 8: We were like, describe some guy more specific.

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Speaker 4: Do you know Brody? I met at Brody last night?

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Speaker 4: That beat your butt.

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Speaker 1: Bad.

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Speaker 3: I don't doubt it. He probably outweighed me by one

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Speaker 3: hundred and fifty pounds more than that.

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Speaker 6: No, he was two fifty, he said, it's one hundred.

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Speaker 1: Last night we went down and we cooked dinner for

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Speaker 1: the local football team, the ms U bobcast House.

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Speaker 3: One two hundred and fifty hot dogs.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, a lot of hot dogs.

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Speaker 4: Thirty six gallons game chill, enough.

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Speaker 3: For a court each, a big gulp of chili each,

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Speaker 3: what each.

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Speaker 8: Had a big gold is A good reminder is uh,

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Speaker 8: they're kids. Oh, huge disparity, the disparity right between Like

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Speaker 8: you're talking to one kid who just happens to be

422
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Speaker 8: built like livestock animal. Uh, peach fuzz, peach fuzz, kind

423
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Speaker 8: of like some acne and stuff going on. He's playing

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Speaker 8: right next to a person who looks like he's been

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Speaker 8: like supporting a family of four for a decade already, right, Like,

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Speaker 8: and that's just what's so odd to me about that

427
00:21:54,480 --> 00:21:59,200
Speaker 8: stage of athletics is like, here's somebody who's very physically gifted,

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Speaker 8: and it will can continue to change dramatically.

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Speaker 1: This time in this time right, No, they're still like

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Speaker 1: and they're developing, and they're still playing at a very

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Speaker 1: highly competitive level.

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Speaker 8: And then right next to him, you're like, oh no,

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Speaker 8: that is a fully developed human.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and cats are one of the best Division one

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Speaker 3: Double A teams in the country.

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Speaker 1: I was impressed by the poise and politeness. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: I'll point I think that you think he like, yeah,

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00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:34,040
Speaker 1: disciplines on that level. We talked about like the little kids,

439
00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:37,840
Speaker 1: but like just like very like just poised, and.

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Speaker 3: I got the impression they got a respect for their

441
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Speaker 3: coach and.

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Speaker 8: And each other. I mean, they were all real. I

443
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Speaker 8: was kind of mixing it up back in there, and

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Speaker 8: they all seem to be real nice to each other too,

445
00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:53,720
Speaker 8: and not like real cliquish, which is zero impressive to me.

446
00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:55,200
Speaker 4: I was the only one that won.

447
00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:59,000
Speaker 1: Uh. We each had me and Yanni and Calich had

448
00:22:59,000 --> 00:23:04,439
Speaker 1: to do a compete in a physical feat not you know,

449
00:23:05,119 --> 00:23:08,879
Speaker 1: not surprisingly, not surprisingly, I was the only one that

450
00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:10,360
Speaker 1: was able to best my opponent.

451
00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:12,040
Speaker 3: Did you compete against him? I have a lot of

452
00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:13,840
Speaker 3: water the water guy or something.

453
00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:17,480
Speaker 6: I'm not gonna acknowledge some details, but I have a

454
00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:20,919
Speaker 6: lot of respect for Giannis's physical capabilities.

455
00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:24,679
Speaker 8: But when the kid stood up to go against Giannis,

456
00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:27,280
Speaker 8: it was just very clear that it was not gonna.

457
00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:30,600
Speaker 1: That was a dude named Brody. This guy floats, yeah,

458
00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:34,920
Speaker 1: floats through the air. The vertical jump unbelievable.

459
00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:38,040
Speaker 6: Well, but I would expect that from like a skinnier

460
00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:40,280
Speaker 6: wide receiver type, you know where you're like, oh, you

461
00:23:40,359 --> 00:23:42,800
Speaker 6: might have played basketball too, but this dude is a

462
00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:46,840
Speaker 6: defensive end. You know, our our two hundred and fifty

463
00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:50,480
Speaker 6: pounds and yeah, like my my jump to get on

464
00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:52,320
Speaker 6: that box has a lot to do with how high

465
00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:55,040
Speaker 6: I can get my feet up, right, Like I got

466
00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:56,679
Speaker 6: to get up in the air and just lift my

467
00:23:56,680 --> 00:23:57,200
Speaker 6: feet up.

468
00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:01,040
Speaker 4: In the same possible He took off exactly when you.

469
00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:04,160
Speaker 6: Jump, there's like the jump and then you actually watch

470
00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:09,679
Speaker 6: the actual part of I guess the vertical propulsion. Just

471
00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:10,960
Speaker 6: floated six inches.

472
00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:13,200
Speaker 1: It was funny too, is even like I'm not dogging

473
00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:15,640
Speaker 1: at you because you did good, but when you maxed out,

474
00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:19,040
Speaker 1: he was still like coming down on the match. He

475
00:24:19,119 --> 00:24:22,280
Speaker 1: was approaching the mat from he was approaching the platform

476
00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:23,840
Speaker 1: from above, like as.

477
00:24:23,680 --> 00:24:26,960
Speaker 6: The dropped yeah, he had an easy six to ten

478
00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:29,520
Speaker 6: inches to go until he was gonna max. It was

479
00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:31,639
Speaker 6: funny because every we want to push him to the max,

480
00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:32,600
Speaker 6: but the coach is, like.

481
00:24:33,080 --> 00:24:33,600
Speaker 1: I did that.

482
00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:37,000
Speaker 6: We don't need to get anybody injured today. This is

483
00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:37,560
Speaker 6: fun enough.

484
00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:38,680
Speaker 8: That was neat though.

485
00:24:38,920 --> 00:24:40,879
Speaker 1: What I what I did for my tournament is I

486
00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:43,679
Speaker 1: did a lot of pre research and I asked around

487
00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:45,800
Speaker 1: what position is least likely to be able to do

488
00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:47,800
Speaker 1: a lot of pull ups? And I kept getting the

489
00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:51,520
Speaker 1: same answer, no.

490
00:24:51,440 --> 00:24:53,679
Speaker 4: Like nose, like the guys that.

491
00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:57,119
Speaker 8: Offensive line defense.

492
00:24:57,400 --> 00:25:00,320
Speaker 1: And everybody said, I wouldn't talk to the to the

493
00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:02,480
Speaker 1: guys that are you know, the three hundred plus guys.

494
00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:04,879
Speaker 4: So I took on one of them and pull.

495
00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:08,680
Speaker 6: Ups, and honestly, you only invested him by one. And

496
00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:12,480
Speaker 6: I was surprised. I mean that kild put up almost

497
00:25:12,560 --> 00:25:15,240
Speaker 6: ten pull ups with I mean, think about it, you

498
00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:17,159
Speaker 6: only got to pull up one hundred and forty pounds.

499
00:25:17,160 --> 00:25:20,000
Speaker 6: He's pulling up three hundred pounds. Yeah.

500
00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:26,320
Speaker 1: Uh, But did I did best him? He used a

501
00:25:26,320 --> 00:25:30,960
Speaker 1: different grip. I noticed I did the traditional he did

502
00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:32,280
Speaker 1: the like. I don't know.

503
00:25:32,520 --> 00:25:34,520
Speaker 8: I think it's because he had so much bulk in

504
00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:36,960
Speaker 8: his arms. And shoulders. He was pretty limited to where

505
00:25:36,960 --> 00:25:38,240
Speaker 8: he could grab the bar Steve.

506
00:25:39,359 --> 00:25:40,919
Speaker 1: I don't know. I wonder if I could do more

507
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:41,600
Speaker 1: or less of that.

508
00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:45,000
Speaker 6: Great well, so probably averages out he did like he did,

509
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:46,680
Speaker 6: like shooting, like he was shooting pistols.

510
00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:50,120
Speaker 1: Shooting two pistols straight users at home.

511
00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:52,119
Speaker 6: Yeah, which is the thing we do a lot is

512
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:57,000
Speaker 6: two pistols straight up in the sky.

513
00:25:57,920 --> 00:25:58,879
Speaker 8: I start my morning.

514
00:25:59,000 --> 00:26:01,280
Speaker 1: Okay, got handed over to Brody for a newsflash. This

515
00:26:01,359 --> 00:26:05,680
Speaker 1: is Brody's favorite subject. Back to Colorado, Brody's favorite subject,

516
00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:07,520
Speaker 1: his favorite two subjects come together.

517
00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:09,440
Speaker 3: Yeah, Colorado and wolves.

518
00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:09,760
Speaker 1: Yep.

519
00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:12,560
Speaker 6: Oh, I'm waiting.

520
00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:15,320
Speaker 3: Well on the second one.

521
00:26:16,240 --> 00:26:17,400
Speaker 6: On the wolves, I don't know.

522
00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:17,919
Speaker 3: We got a.

523
00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:20,280
Speaker 6: Gaither way.

524
00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:21,560
Speaker 3: We touched on this.

525
00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:22,320
Speaker 6: A Colorado.

526
00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:24,560
Speaker 4: It's a Colorado two for Colorado.

527
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:27,639
Speaker 3: A couple of years ago or whenever, had a ballot

528
00:26:27,720 --> 00:26:32,640
Speaker 3: initiative to reintroduce wolves that it passed, and the Governor

529
00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:36,800
Speaker 3: of Colorado kind of mandated that they would have wolves

530
00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:40,240
Speaker 3: on the ground in Colorado by December of twenty three.

531
00:26:40,320 --> 00:26:41,760
Speaker 4: No, you're aware that it's Colorado.

532
00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:49,840
Speaker 3: It's Colorado Wrecking Mountain, So Colorado. A month from when

533
00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:53,640
Speaker 3: this podcast airs, like there were supposed to have been

534
00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:57,320
Speaker 3: wolves on the ground in Colorado. The problem is they

535
00:26:57,320 --> 00:26:59,320
Speaker 3: can't get wolves anywhere.

536
00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:02,120
Speaker 4: Can we can? We introduced the other wrinkle. But there

537
00:27:02,119 --> 00:27:03,280
Speaker 4: are wolves, Yeah.

538
00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:04,160
Speaker 3: There exactly.

539
00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:07,119
Speaker 8: Yeah, not only are there wolves, but there's wolves that

540
00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:11,320
Speaker 8: are reproducing within the state of Colorado, which Colorada.

541
00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:13,840
Speaker 4: Yeah that's not true, that's not certain.

542
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:17,680
Speaker 3: Well, some of them got killed because they were wandering

543
00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:20,479
Speaker 3: back and forth from Colorado to Wyoming.

544
00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:21,360
Speaker 4: Got killed in Wyoming.

545
00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:23,960
Speaker 3: Yeah, as soon as they crossed the border capal.

546
00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:27,440
Speaker 4: By Colorado's with out of state.

547
00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:31,280
Speaker 3: I don't know, I don't know, but yeah, there are

548
00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:33,040
Speaker 3: wolves that made their way in naturally.

549
00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:34,680
Speaker 6: But doesn't matter.

550
00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:37,320
Speaker 3: They're still going to reintroduce them, but they just don't

551
00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:42,280
Speaker 3: have any Montana, Wyoming, Idahol, we're all like a hard no,

552
00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:44,159
Speaker 3: They're like, we're not going to help you put more

553
00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:48,480
Speaker 3: wolves on the ground because of what I mean, it

554
00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:53,920
Speaker 3: could be a political thing, like like demographically politically, those

555
00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:56,679
Speaker 3: three states are much different from Colorado's and.

556
00:27:56,760 --> 00:28:00,000
Speaker 1: Minst Wyoming saying no and Oregon saying no. Field very

557
00:28:00,080 --> 00:28:00,640
Speaker 1: different to me.

558
00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:05,080
Speaker 3: Sure, I like the Montana, Wyoming, and Idaho, like I

559
00:28:05,119 --> 00:28:09,240
Speaker 3: think are just like we're just not interested not participating. Yes,

560
00:28:09,359 --> 00:28:15,520
Speaker 3: Oregon hasn't really given a reason why. Washington is like, man,

561
00:28:15,640 --> 00:28:18,200
Speaker 3: we're kind of interested, but it's just not the right

562
00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:22,359
Speaker 3: time because the best time to trap wolves is later

563
00:28:22,440 --> 00:28:24,560
Speaker 3: in the winter. So if we're going to help you,

564
00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:27,000
Speaker 3: you're not getting these wolves until later, and then you'll

565
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:30,960
Speaker 3: have to introduce them in your state later. So right

566
00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:34,320
Speaker 3: now it's not looking great, like there's no way they're

567
00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:36,080
Speaker 3: going to get them on the ground in a month.

568
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:38,760
Speaker 4: Let me crystal ball this for you. This is not

569
00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:39,400
Speaker 4: an issue.

570
00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:44,920
Speaker 3: What do you mean it's not an issue though, them.

571
00:28:44,720 --> 00:28:47,840
Speaker 1: Not getting wolves is not like actually a long term problem.

572
00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:49,960
Speaker 4: No, No, they'll get know what I'm talking about.

573
00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:50,479
Speaker 1: I just know.

574
00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:54,880
Speaker 3: I think they'll get them from Washington eventually, but it's

575
00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:57,320
Speaker 3: just not going to happen on the timeline they want.

576
00:28:57,360 --> 00:29:00,880
Speaker 1: It's an interesting wrinkle, yeah, but this is not like

577
00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:01,280
Speaker 1: this is.

578
00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:04,800
Speaker 3: You don't think it's mildly interesting that for months they

579
00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:07,600
Speaker 3: haven't been like they're like, we want wolves and nobody's

580
00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:08,240
Speaker 3: given them to them.

581
00:29:08,280 --> 00:29:11,000
Speaker 1: It would become more interesting to me if someone from

582
00:29:11,080 --> 00:29:13,560
Speaker 1: each of these states who made that decision would say

583
00:29:13,560 --> 00:29:14,840
Speaker 1: why I made that decision.

584
00:29:15,480 --> 00:29:19,880
Speaker 3: I mean from MFWP just said, we are not interested

585
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:27,600
Speaker 3: in participating in this process cause I don't know, you'll

586
00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:30,120
Speaker 3: have to infer. I think it's because they don't want

587
00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:33,080
Speaker 3: to be held responsible for putting more wolves on the ground.

588
00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:40,080
Speaker 3: Like when Colorado's wolf population explodes five years from now

589
00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:41,960
Speaker 3: and they're like, where did these wolves come from? And

590
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:43,800
Speaker 3: they're like, why the hell did you get those.

591
00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:45,000
Speaker 6: Super wolves from Montana?

592
00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:48,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, and Canada is not even on the It was

593
00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:49,800
Speaker 3: never even an option.

594
00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:52,080
Speaker 4: Why is Canada not an option?

595
00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:54,480
Speaker 3: I don't know. Maybe they don't want those big bad

596
00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:55,280
Speaker 3: super wolves.

597
00:29:56,920 --> 00:29:59,360
Speaker 6: Well about an option to who to Colorado?

598
00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:03,680
Speaker 3: They haven't even like Canada is not playing ball in Colorado, hasn't.

599
00:30:03,440 --> 00:30:06,400
Speaker 1: Went Minnesota, Wisconsin, in Michigan.

600
00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:10,640
Speaker 3: Because of the far maybe because of the different type

601
00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:12,280
Speaker 3: what type of wolf?

602
00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:13,760
Speaker 1: You know?

603
00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:16,600
Speaker 3: Those wolves don't know what elk are, don't know what

604
00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:19,520
Speaker 3: mountains are. Maybe it's like got something to do with that.

605
00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:20,200
Speaker 1: I don't know.

606
00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:24,280
Speaker 9: I feel like they'd figured it out pretty quick.

607
00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:28,160
Speaker 4: Here's my take. It's unchanging.

608
00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:32,120
Speaker 1: Uh.

609
00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:34,880
Speaker 4: I like I think that all the animals.

610
00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:37,120
Speaker 1: That are from somewhere should be able to be there,

611
00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:42,160
Speaker 1: but they should be I just really lean towards state management.

612
00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:47,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, we'll see what happens eventually, maybe they will

613
00:30:47,160 --> 00:30:51,600
Speaker 3: be managed by the state. Okay, guys, we just wanted

614
00:30:51,600 --> 00:30:54,960
Speaker 3: to give you a quick update since there was a

615
00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:58,160
Speaker 3: lag time between when this podcast was recorded and when

616
00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:01,800
Speaker 3: it's going to air, and in that time, it turns

617
00:31:01,840 --> 00:31:05,440
Speaker 3: out that Colorado found a source for wolves, which is

618
00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:09,160
Speaker 3: a state of Oregon which has agreed to supply ten

619
00:31:09,280 --> 00:31:14,280
Speaker 3: wolves to Colorado that will then be reintroduced in Colorado.

620
00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:19,680
Speaker 3: It looks like they're probably in the process right now

621
00:31:19,840 --> 00:31:22,720
Speaker 3: of capturing those wolves and then they'll bring them to Colorado,

622
00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:26,240
Speaker 3: check them for disease, injury, stuff like that, throw a

623
00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:28,840
Speaker 3: radio collar on them, let them acclimate, and then they're

624
00:31:28,840 --> 00:31:34,080
Speaker 3: going to plan on reintroducing those wolves around veil Asspen

625
00:31:34,520 --> 00:31:37,600
Speaker 3: gunn Us In. They're not being too specific about the

626
00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:40,800
Speaker 3: area they're going to release them in, but it's gonna happen,

627
00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:43,959
Speaker 3: and we just wanted to keep you guys updated that

628
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:46,080
Speaker 3: there had been a change in what we had just

629
00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:47,120
Speaker 3: talked about.

630
00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:52,160
Speaker 4: Moving on, This one's serious.

631
00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:55,520
Speaker 3: This one is serious. It's the reason we're talking about

632
00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:59,680
Speaker 3: it because it's another kind of ballot box example of

633
00:32:00,040 --> 00:32:01,000
Speaker 3: wildlife management.

634
00:32:01,080 --> 00:32:03,200
Speaker 1: I think this one's more This in my mind, is

635
00:32:03,240 --> 00:32:04,520
Speaker 1: more serious than the other issues.

636
00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:09,720
Speaker 3: Oh for sure, especially if if you're a hunter. The

637
00:32:11,640 --> 00:32:15,320
Speaker 3: kind of the same group of people that probably may

638
00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:18,440
Speaker 3: have been involved in getting wolves back in Colorado or

639
00:32:18,720 --> 00:32:21,200
Speaker 3: who knows, maybe I'm maybe that's not correct.

640
00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:24,520
Speaker 1: Anyway, it's the people from the Whole Foods parking lot.

641
00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:28,160
Speaker 3: Yes, and they tend to travel these they travel around

642
00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:28,719
Speaker 3: the West.

643
00:32:28,920 --> 00:32:30,880
Speaker 4: That's where these signatures get collected.

644
00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:32,720
Speaker 3: Yes, they travel around the West a.

645
00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:35,080
Speaker 4: Lot, farmers markets, Whole Foods parking lots.

646
00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:38,080
Speaker 3: There's now a proposal, well it's not a proposal, it's

647
00:32:38,160 --> 00:32:41,320
Speaker 3: it's in the works. They're they're getting signatures and they're

648
00:32:41,320 --> 00:32:44,200
Speaker 3: hoping to get enough signatures to get a ban of

649
00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:48,680
Speaker 3: mountain lion and bobcat hunting. Get that on the ballot

650
00:32:48,920 --> 00:32:51,560
Speaker 3: in Colorado and they'll get I think they need like

651
00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:56,080
Speaker 3: roughly one hundred and twenty four thousand signatures. Yeah, which

652
00:32:56,120 --> 00:32:57,000
Speaker 3: is like not a problem.

653
00:32:57,440 --> 00:32:59,760
Speaker 4: It's going on. Listen, it's gonna be on unless there's

654
00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:02,120
Speaker 4: some issue. It's going to be on the ballot.

655
00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:06,600
Speaker 3: It will be And Colorado is now like the kind

656
00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:10,680
Speaker 3: of place where people got to pay attention because it

657
00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:14,320
Speaker 3: could like it could get banned in Colorado.

658
00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:17,680
Speaker 1: Like these ballad initias. I mean, ballad initiais cut both

659
00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:21,920
Speaker 1: ways right, like right to hunt and fish stuff. I

660
00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:23,360
Speaker 1: don't know, I don't know if one of those. Yeah,

661
00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:26,320
Speaker 1: those have come to ballad initis and baald initias don't

662
00:33:26,360 --> 00:33:28,600
Speaker 1: always win. Like when they try to do a ballad,

663
00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:31,880
Speaker 1: what it is is basically like it's special interest groups.

664
00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:35,760
Speaker 1: They don't even mean that in a negative way, because

665
00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:37,640
Speaker 1: you have special interest groups on both sides.

666
00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:39,440
Speaker 4: A special interest.

667
00:33:39,120 --> 00:33:43,080
Speaker 1: Group will want to bypass the normal channels of lawmaking,

668
00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:46,040
Speaker 1: in this case, bypass how wildlife gets normally managed.

669
00:33:46,200 --> 00:33:50,040
Speaker 6: Often probably because they've already tried numerous times to go

670
00:33:50,080 --> 00:33:52,520
Speaker 6: through the legislative process and it hasn't.

671
00:33:52,280 --> 00:33:53,960
Speaker 1: Worked, And they go, well, I'm going to take it

672
00:33:53,960 --> 00:33:57,880
Speaker 1: to the voters yep. And then you in order to

673
00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:00,000
Speaker 1: get it on the ballot, has to enjoy a certain

674
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:02,800
Speaker 1: level of popular support. So you write a really cock

675
00:34:02,800 --> 00:34:06,760
Speaker 1: eyed because you can't write the ballot cock eyed, but

676
00:34:06,800 --> 00:34:10,000
Speaker 1: you can write the petition cock eye. Sure, so you

677
00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:12,520
Speaker 1: write a cock eyed petition with all kinds of like

678
00:34:12,600 --> 00:34:14,319
Speaker 1: trigger words and stuff like that.

679
00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:16,799
Speaker 8: Signs or in a case like this, it's just gonna

680
00:34:16,800 --> 00:34:22,840
Speaker 8: be too fuzzy slightly spotted kittens, doowe eyed mountain lion kittens?

681
00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:23,080
Speaker 1: Yeah?

682
00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:27,319
Speaker 8: Sure, saying do you think people can kill me?

683
00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:28,919
Speaker 6: They've gone, So are you going to go as far

684
00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:32,840
Speaker 6: as to say, like what they're how they're actually the

685
00:34:32,960 --> 00:34:36,680
Speaker 6: trophy and then the animals that are included under this

686
00:34:36,840 --> 00:34:42,719
Speaker 6: trophy hunting ban, you can go ahead, Well, they're they're

687
00:34:43,280 --> 00:34:45,600
Speaker 6: they've listed in they're going to try to ban all

688
00:34:45,680 --> 00:34:49,279
Speaker 6: trophy hunting. And then they're what they're what they're doing

689
00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:52,399
Speaker 6: with their messaging is they're defining what trophy hunting is

690
00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:59,560
Speaker 6: by saying that it's mountain lions, bobcats, and links. Yeah, anyways,

691
00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:02,160
Speaker 6: exact it's a federally protected species.

692
00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:02,480
Speaker 5: Right.

693
00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:05,520
Speaker 6: But again, like what you're saying is in this initial messaging,

694
00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:10,400
Speaker 6: the petition, the propaganda, they don't you don't have to

695
00:35:10,480 --> 00:35:11,439
Speaker 6: talk in fast.

696
00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:11,719
Speaker 5: Yeah.

697
00:35:11,719 --> 00:35:14,400
Speaker 3: They did the same thing in Arizona with jaguars, Like

698
00:35:14,440 --> 00:35:16,280
Speaker 3: they added jaguars onto the list.

699
00:35:16,480 --> 00:35:17,720
Speaker 4: Yeah, because it tricks people.

700
00:35:17,840 --> 00:35:20,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, that way, some dude going in there to get

701
00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:22,680
Speaker 1: some dude going in there to get his uh, you know,

702
00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:27,560
Speaker 1: his his hamburger and his Sabbi P's and his hamburger

703
00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:29,960
Speaker 1: at whole foods. I imagine you probably get a lot

704
00:35:29,960 --> 00:35:31,680
Speaker 1: of you know, what's the place that does like the

705
00:35:31,719 --> 00:35:34,160
Speaker 1: old timey posters, they sell a lot of junk food.

706
00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:35,440
Speaker 4: Trader Joe's.

707
00:35:35,440 --> 00:35:37,840
Speaker 1: You probably get a lot of signatures outside of Trader Joe's.

708
00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:42,239
Speaker 1: So anyways, you're going there and someone's like, oh my,

709
00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:47,560
Speaker 1: you know, goodness, good lord, they're gonna hunt jaguars. I

710
00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:53,440
Speaker 1: better sign this petition, not knowing that that's an impossibility. Yeah.

711
00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:57,440
Speaker 6: Yeah, And and there the trophy huntings are saying, well,

712
00:35:57,640 --> 00:35:59,520
Speaker 6: you got You're only out there killing it for its

713
00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:01,880
Speaker 6: hide or for its head, or for this trophy, so

714
00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:02,640
Speaker 6: you can you.

715
00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:04,360
Speaker 4: Know, get what about cash money?

716
00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:06,359
Speaker 1: I don't.

717
00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:08,480
Speaker 6: I don't know if that's in the in the wording,

718
00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:12,759
Speaker 6: but uh again that's illegal, like in the state of

719
00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:16,200
Speaker 6: Colorado that meat has to be processed for human consumption

720
00:36:16,440 --> 00:36:17,960
Speaker 6: on what on a mountain lion?

721
00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:18,759
Speaker 1: Yeah it does.

722
00:36:18,960 --> 00:36:21,560
Speaker 4: Yeah, so they got a salvage requirement.

723
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:24,480
Speaker 3: I don't think I'm bobcast, but lions for sure.

724
00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:25,120
Speaker 1: I like that.

725
00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:28,160
Speaker 4: I like those I like those rules.

726
00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:31,400
Speaker 3: But yeah, Colorado like has a history of this, like

727
00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:33,920
Speaker 3: going back to the nineties. That's how they lost trapping

728
00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:38,520
Speaker 3: trapping leg holding killed spring bear spring bear hound bear

729
00:36:38,719 --> 00:36:40,719
Speaker 3: like and now it was eighty years ago. Like, the

730
00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:43,680
Speaker 3: demographics in that state have changed a lot in thirty years.

731
00:36:43,719 --> 00:36:46,640
Speaker 3: So you know, it doesn't take a whole lot of

732
00:36:46,719 --> 00:36:50,960
Speaker 3: voters in Denver and Boulder and Fort Collins to kind

733
00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:55,680
Speaker 3: of skew how the vote goes statewide. You know, like

734
00:36:55,719 --> 00:36:58,480
Speaker 3: if if this was proposed in Wyoming, would be dead

735
00:36:58,520 --> 00:36:59,040
Speaker 3: on arrival.

736
00:36:59,080 --> 00:37:00,719
Speaker 4: I remember someone with the trapping thing.

737
00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:04,880
Speaker 1: Someone remember someone saying the minute the population of the

738
00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:09,680
Speaker 1: greater Denver area surpassed the population of the state, trapping

739
00:37:09,800 --> 00:37:15,600
Speaker 1: was gone. Yeah, yeah, I know that wouldn't surprise city slickers. Yep.

740
00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:18,120
Speaker 3: So they're back at it again in Colorado.

741
00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:19,920
Speaker 1: But you guys can beat if you're in Colorado, you

742
00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:22,719
Speaker 1: can beat this. They beat it in Maine. They beat

743
00:37:22,760 --> 00:37:26,040
Speaker 1: the bear band in band in Maine. In Montana, we

744
00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:29,920
Speaker 1: soundly beated a public land trapping band on the ballot

745
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:30,920
Speaker 1: seventy percent.

746
00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:36,360
Speaker 3: The same thing in Arizona got beat. Yeah, within the

747
00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:37,080
Speaker 3: last couple of years.

748
00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:41,759
Speaker 1: But in the end, when when in the future, in

749
00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:45,480
Speaker 1: one hundred years, when hunting is largely done in California,

750
00:37:45,560 --> 00:37:48,160
Speaker 1: not even one hundred years, twenty five years, when hunting

751
00:37:48,200 --> 00:37:54,239
Speaker 1: is done in California, done in Washington, done in Colorado.

752
00:37:55,040 --> 00:37:58,719
Speaker 1: It'll be because of the it'll because of ballots, and

753
00:37:58,719 --> 00:38:00,760
Speaker 1: then you'll have then it'll it'll be like a different

754
00:38:00,800 --> 00:38:04,160
Speaker 1: land will be completely different vigilanti landscape. Can we talk

755
00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:05,000
Speaker 1: about this with the game warden?

756
00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:07,120
Speaker 6: Do we talk? Can we talk a little bit about

757
00:38:07,160 --> 00:38:10,440
Speaker 6: like what what we can do about this?

758
00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:12,520
Speaker 1: Yeah? But can I first tell you, well, yeah, you

759
00:38:12,520 --> 00:38:14,080
Speaker 1: talk about that. Then I want to talk about a

760
00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:16,080
Speaker 1: correlation I've found with the.

761
00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:18,759
Speaker 4: Let's soon throw this out there.

762
00:38:19,960 --> 00:38:23,719
Speaker 1: I have found it's your podcast, Go ahead, there's a

763
00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:30,920
Speaker 1: correlation between the state's readiness to embrace legal weed. There

764
00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:38,439
Speaker 1: we discussed show a state's readiness to embrace legal weed

765
00:38:38,520 --> 00:38:40,520
Speaker 1: and its readiness to ban hunting practices.

766
00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:41,399
Speaker 5: It is not true.

767
00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:45,080
Speaker 1: We need to We need a very strong correlation. We

768
00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:47,280
Speaker 1: need to ask of the Mississippi.

769
00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:49,759
Speaker 10: You know that weeds legal in Montana, right, but it

770
00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:53,280
Speaker 10: was slow to embrace it state.

771
00:38:54,760 --> 00:39:01,719
Speaker 1: It's quick, No, Steve, you've time in Alaska, right, That's

772
00:39:01,760 --> 00:39:02,279
Speaker 1: what I told.

773
00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:05,400
Speaker 3: That's because that's where I grew up.

774
00:39:05,480 --> 00:39:09,120
Speaker 5: And you know, my parents had a greenhouse for vegetablesuse

775
00:39:09,160 --> 00:39:10,000
Speaker 5: for other.

776
00:39:13,560 --> 00:39:16,839
Speaker 3: Vative get a list of the states and make a

777
00:39:16,840 --> 00:39:18,440
Speaker 3: real comparison.

778
00:39:21,160 --> 00:39:24,239
Speaker 6: Of Spencer's statistics. People that help them out with the

779
00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:27,439
Speaker 6: stats for the trivia. Well, I'm hoping right now they're

780
00:39:27,480 --> 00:39:31,200
Speaker 6: already working on this to to come back and make

781
00:39:31,400 --> 00:39:32,560
Speaker 6: not to show you correlation.

782
00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:34,200
Speaker 1: You want to know two things I was wrong about

783
00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:36,680
Speaker 1: that I was convinced I was right about I was

784
00:39:36,719 --> 00:39:39,600
Speaker 1: wrong only two, So there I was. I thought that

785
00:39:40,640 --> 00:39:43,279
Speaker 1: conservatives were less likely to believe in ghosts. In fact,

786
00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:45,640
Speaker 1: they're more likely to believe in ghosts. I thought that

787
00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:49,840
Speaker 1: conservatives were less likely to have gluten intolerance, but in

788
00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:51,359
Speaker 1: fact it's like a statistical walk.

789
00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:54,520
Speaker 3: That one is strange to me, very the gluten thing.

790
00:39:55,800 --> 00:39:59,040
Speaker 1: And I think that people because here's my theory, hunters

791
00:39:59,080 --> 00:40:01,440
Speaker 1: don't mind hiding the book. It's a big part of

792
00:40:01,520 --> 00:40:04,200
Speaker 1: hunt it, so they don't mind sneaking off in the

793
00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:11,319
Speaker 1: bushes to to you know, indulge, moving on.

794
00:40:12,160 --> 00:40:17,600
Speaker 4: Go on, it's a half baked know what you can do?

795
00:40:17,719 --> 00:40:23,000
Speaker 8: Part is is the takeaway here Gang pasion.

796
00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:24,600
Speaker 1: Probably cut all that out because the more I think

797
00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:25,719
Speaker 1: about it, I might not be right.

798
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:39,080
Speaker 6: Okay, looking at that point, uh yeah, and this, uh,

799
00:40:39,160 --> 00:40:41,560
Speaker 6: there's a lot to be to be said here, but

800
00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:44,920
Speaker 6: it I think if it's left only up to the

801
00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:49,880
Speaker 6: people that participate in hound hunting in Colorado, uh, it's

802
00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:54,279
Speaker 6: it's a lost battle now, right, Like everybody's gonna have

803
00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:58,560
Speaker 6: to chip in. And to me, I think the best

804
00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:01,280
Speaker 6: way that we can do it is we you can't

805
00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:05,960
Speaker 6: shrug off or or be flippant in conversations with non hunters.

806
00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:10,560
Speaker 6: The same way that the the opposition is now swaying

807
00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:13,640
Speaker 6: that middle eighty percent that's going to decide this vote

808
00:41:14,320 --> 00:41:17,560
Speaker 6: in their direction. We have to be out there talking

809
00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:22,480
Speaker 6: and messaging and talking to people about that it's not

810
00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:26,239
Speaker 6: trophy hunting and all the good things that are associated

811
00:41:26,239 --> 00:41:28,640
Speaker 6: with this thing that they're trying to take away, and

812
00:41:28,719 --> 00:41:31,719
Speaker 6: explain to them about the rules and regulations that go

813
00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:33,680
Speaker 6: into it, you know, explain to them that the meat

814
00:41:33,760 --> 00:41:37,200
Speaker 6: has to be uh, you know, prepared for human consumption,

815
00:41:37,680 --> 00:41:40,440
Speaker 6: et cetera, et cetera. And I think once if you can,

816
00:41:40,520 --> 00:41:42,439
Speaker 6: I always tell the story I've told it multiple times

817
00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:49,560
Speaker 6: on this podcast about my aunt, who very liberal, very hippie.

818
00:41:49,960 --> 00:41:52,720
Speaker 6: She chants every morning with her windows open.

819
00:41:52,840 --> 00:41:53,600
Speaker 5: I mean, she just.

820
00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:58,719
Speaker 6: She'll rather pot person. She's not a pot smoker, but

821
00:41:58,960 --> 00:42:02,560
Speaker 6: she would rather escort ants out of her kitchen then

822
00:42:02,640 --> 00:42:03,399
Speaker 6: stomp on them.

823
00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:03,640
Speaker 9: Right.

824
00:42:03,840 --> 00:42:08,600
Speaker 6: She's really like one with with all living things. She

825
00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:11,640
Speaker 6: was not into hunting and not a supporter of hunting,

826
00:42:11,680 --> 00:42:14,640
Speaker 6: maybe even anti hunter until I became of the age

827
00:42:14,719 --> 00:42:17,319
Speaker 6: and old enough to and she knew that I got

828
00:42:17,360 --> 00:42:20,279
Speaker 6: that far into it, and we would have conversations and

829
00:42:20,280 --> 00:42:22,799
Speaker 6: I would explain to her what hunting was to me,

830
00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:25,239
Speaker 6: how I did it, how I went about it, and

831
00:42:25,520 --> 00:42:28,160
Speaker 6: that completely flipped her. And I can guarantee you right now,

832
00:42:28,239 --> 00:42:30,720
Speaker 6: if she's in a room of people and there's someone

833
00:42:30,800 --> 00:42:35,080
Speaker 6: talking bad about hunting, she will step in and on

834
00:42:35,200 --> 00:42:39,440
Speaker 6: our behalf speak positively about hunting and say that that

835
00:42:39,480 --> 00:42:42,360
Speaker 6: what that person is saying might not be exactly true

836
00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:43,960
Speaker 6: and you might want to look into it farther. And

837
00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:46,000
Speaker 6: that just comes from having conversations.

838
00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:49,759
Speaker 3: So I think you gotta like have that same conversation

839
00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:53,520
Speaker 3: around like hound hunting and lines with some hunters too,

840
00:42:53,880 --> 00:42:56,880
Speaker 3: because they're hunters who are like, well, it's not really fair,

841
00:42:57,160 --> 00:42:59,880
Speaker 3: you know. You see that a lot yep.

842
00:42:59,640 --> 00:43:02,440
Speaker 1: From Yeah, and I remember what the public land trapping

843
00:43:02,520 --> 00:43:07,320
Speaker 1: thing here. I heard from multiple people who were upland

844
00:43:07,320 --> 00:43:12,239
Speaker 1: bird hunters right who were pro trap band. They thought

845
00:43:12,280 --> 00:43:17,160
Speaker 1: it was beneficial to them, and uh, and just not

846
00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:20,839
Speaker 1: seeing the big picture about like do you honestly think

847
00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:25,760
Speaker 1: you're you're immune from this if you dogs? Yeah, chase

848
00:43:25,880 --> 00:43:26,760
Speaker 1: down birds.

849
00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:27,920
Speaker 3: Yeah it's weird.

850
00:43:28,239 --> 00:43:31,520
Speaker 4: Yeah, right, what does that sound familiar too?

851
00:43:32,960 --> 00:43:35,719
Speaker 6: Yeah? It's like yeah, and it and it's funny because

852
00:43:35,719 --> 00:43:38,680
Speaker 6: people love dogs most of the time, right, Like everybody

853
00:43:38,719 --> 00:43:41,600
Speaker 6: loves dogs. But I spoke with a game warn yesterday

854
00:43:41,680 --> 00:43:46,080
Speaker 6: from Colorado off the record, and he's like, look, even

855
00:43:46,080 --> 00:43:49,200
Speaker 6: in our agency, there's people that you know in their

856
00:43:49,239 --> 00:43:51,359
Speaker 6: game warns and you'll be able to speak to this

857
00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:53,680
Speaker 6: to how it is set up here. But there's they

858
00:43:53,719 --> 00:43:57,040
Speaker 6: really they split it up between I think like education, research,

859
00:43:57,200 --> 00:43:59,920
Speaker 6: and law enforcement, their game warns do all three that

860
00:44:01,200 --> 00:44:04,000
Speaker 6: you know what they have to do. And so to

861
00:44:04,280 --> 00:44:06,319
Speaker 6: what he was saying is like it even if you

862
00:44:06,480 --> 00:44:10,520
Speaker 6: don't think it's ethically or personally, you don't believe that,

863
00:44:10,600 --> 00:44:12,680
Speaker 6: you know, hunting lions with hounds.

864
00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:13,200
Speaker 5: Is the right thing to do.

865
00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:18,120
Speaker 6: It is a tool in the game management officers or

866
00:44:18,200 --> 00:44:22,000
Speaker 6: warden's toolbox, and when you take it away, it limits

867
00:44:22,080 --> 00:44:26,680
Speaker 6: how they can you know, manage it, right, And I

868
00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:29,520
Speaker 6: mean it just compounds because now that they don't have

869
00:44:29,640 --> 00:44:32,879
Speaker 6: that tool, those animals still have to be managed. They're

870
00:44:32,920 --> 00:44:35,239
Speaker 6: still going to have to be dealt with. And he's like,

871
00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:37,759
Speaker 6: you know what's worse getting you know, killed by a

872
00:44:37,800 --> 00:44:39,920
Speaker 6: person out there hunting, or when you get caught in

873
00:44:39,960 --> 00:44:42,680
Speaker 6: a live trap and then some person walks up to

874
00:44:42,719 --> 00:44:45,520
Speaker 6: you and that. And he's like, they're always thrashing around

875
00:44:45,520 --> 00:44:48,080
Speaker 6: in that live trap right before we have to, you know,

876
00:44:48,200 --> 00:44:50,360
Speaker 6: put one in their head. Or sometimes it's so wild

877
00:44:50,440 --> 00:44:54,480
Speaker 6: they have to actually dart them first and then euthanize them,

878
00:44:54,480 --> 00:44:56,400
Speaker 6: which he said, which is a bummer because I can't

879
00:44:56,719 --> 00:44:59,759
Speaker 6: then donate the meat the meat is drugged up, right,

880
00:45:00,280 --> 00:45:03,920
Speaker 6: But it's uh, you know, I think that people are

881
00:45:03,960 --> 00:45:06,560
Speaker 6: easily swayed here because they think it's gonna be better

882
00:45:06,600 --> 00:45:10,600
Speaker 6: for the animals somehow, but it never is. It's never

883
00:45:10,640 --> 00:45:13,920
Speaker 6: gonna be better for these animals when they can't be

884
00:45:14,040 --> 00:45:16,560
Speaker 6: hunted and the hunting can't be used as the manager.

885
00:45:16,600 --> 00:45:19,000
Speaker 1: There's still gonna be a bunch of lethal control, more

886
00:45:19,040 --> 00:45:21,640
Speaker 1: onlines than bobcasts. But for sure, the thing I would

887
00:45:21,640 --> 00:45:26,480
Speaker 1: point out is we're talking about stable We're talking about stable,

888
00:45:26,600 --> 00:45:29,280
Speaker 1: regulated wildlife populations.

889
00:45:30,160 --> 00:45:33,879
Speaker 5: And It's definitely true. Agencies use hunting as a management tool,

890
00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:39,040
Speaker 5: so whether the harvest is trapping or hunting, it's a

891
00:45:39,120 --> 00:45:41,920
Speaker 5: huge part of the management tool to manage the population,

892
00:45:42,360 --> 00:45:44,759
Speaker 5: to deal with conflicts and things. And if, as as

893
00:45:44,840 --> 00:45:47,719
Speaker 5: Yanni said, if you take that tool away, then that

894
00:45:47,760 --> 00:45:50,440
Speaker 5: burden usually goes onto the agency, and so a lot

895
00:45:50,480 --> 00:45:53,560
Speaker 5: more you'll see a lot more agency removals if hunting

896
00:45:53,640 --> 00:45:54,280
Speaker 5: isn't an option.

897
00:45:54,640 --> 00:45:56,920
Speaker 8: Now, how do you feel qualified to weigh in on

898
00:45:56,960 --> 00:45:58,200
Speaker 8: something like that, Adam.

899
00:46:00,600 --> 00:46:03,200
Speaker 5: Well, I've been a game warden for a while, a

900
00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:06,400
Speaker 5: dozen years or so, and in charge of a lot

901
00:46:06,440 --> 00:46:08,920
Speaker 5: of management decisions in southwest Montana.

902
00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:10,840
Speaker 1: So let's back up to how you got in the biz,

903
00:46:11,239 --> 00:46:11,759
Speaker 1: How I got.

904
00:46:11,680 --> 00:46:13,920
Speaker 5: In the business? How far back you want to go?

905
00:46:14,080 --> 00:46:16,160
Speaker 4: Born in Fairbanks, correct.

906
00:46:15,920 --> 00:46:20,799
Speaker 5: Born in Fairbanks, Alaska, So you know, you know, as

907
00:46:20,800 --> 00:46:24,680
Speaker 5: a kid, scale is different than an adult. And so

908
00:46:25,040 --> 00:46:28,080
Speaker 5: we lived on what my dad called a homestead outside

909
00:46:28,080 --> 00:46:31,040
Speaker 5: of Fairbanks, Alaska, no running water, no electricity for a

910
00:46:31,040 --> 00:46:33,400
Speaker 5: good part of my life, and I felt I was

911
00:46:33,440 --> 00:46:35,799
Speaker 5: way back in the bush. And we went into town

912
00:46:35,920 --> 00:46:40,440
Speaker 5: once once a week for church, laundry, groceries, maybe the

913
00:46:40,480 --> 00:46:42,680
Speaker 5: Sizzler or something like that, you know, in town, go

914
00:46:42,680 --> 00:46:46,200
Speaker 5: out to the restaurant. But since going back there, it's

915
00:46:46,280 --> 00:46:48,160
Speaker 5: not as far out as I remember.

916
00:46:48,120 --> 00:46:50,799
Speaker 1: It may be a way out there just I remember, well,

917
00:46:50,880 --> 00:46:52,640
Speaker 1: town might have crept up on it a little bit.

918
00:46:52,719 --> 00:46:55,000
Speaker 5: It's very true, you know, in the you know, roads

919
00:46:55,000 --> 00:46:59,759
Speaker 5: in Alaska have varying degrees of reliability or condition. And

920
00:47:00,239 --> 00:47:02,759
Speaker 5: Dad drove an old nineteen fifties pickup and I just

921
00:47:02,920 --> 00:47:06,200
Speaker 5: remember always falling asleep on the way into town and

922
00:47:06,239 --> 00:47:08,839
Speaker 5: just thinking that town is brutal. But being back up

923
00:47:08,840 --> 00:47:13,040
Speaker 5: there recently, it's a pretty quick drive into town. So, yeah,

924
00:47:13,040 --> 00:47:17,400
Speaker 5: I grew up in rural Alaska, in the heart of

925
00:47:17,920 --> 00:47:18,360
Speaker 5: the state.

926
00:47:19,600 --> 00:47:22,040
Speaker 1: Was it something that your dad your dad trap but

927
00:47:22,120 --> 00:47:23,600
Speaker 1: wouldn't didn't eat game or something.

928
00:47:23,760 --> 00:47:26,480
Speaker 5: He did do some trapping. He was huge into furs

929
00:47:26,560 --> 00:47:29,279
Speaker 5: and just making things out of first. He just just

930
00:47:29,400 --> 00:47:33,040
Speaker 5: loved doing stuff with his hands and being able to

931
00:47:33,080 --> 00:47:38,080
Speaker 5: make things from scratch. You know, he definitely viewed that

932
00:47:38,200 --> 00:47:41,759
Speaker 5: man was he was here to kind of be the

933
00:47:41,880 --> 00:47:45,200
Speaker 5: shepherd of wildlife or the shepherd of the natural world

934
00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:49,319
Speaker 5: and resources. You know, we had fur hats and all

935
00:47:49,360 --> 00:47:51,239
Speaker 5: sorts of stuff that he'd make. But he was a

936
00:47:51,280 --> 00:47:56,600
Speaker 5: staunch vegetarian. Regally, he did not eat meat. You know,

937
00:47:56,680 --> 00:47:58,719
Speaker 5: every once in a while he'd eat some wild game

938
00:47:58,760 --> 00:48:02,120
Speaker 5: that someone brought over and stuff, but he didn't hunt. Uh.

939
00:48:02,880 --> 00:48:03,080
Speaker 1: You know.

940
00:48:03,239 --> 00:48:06,440
Speaker 5: One of our most common protein sources was a was

941
00:48:06,480 --> 00:48:10,480
Speaker 5: a soy based hot dog called a linket. I don't

942
00:48:10,480 --> 00:48:13,640
Speaker 5: know if you've ever seen those. Most stores have them.

943
00:48:13,680 --> 00:48:16,080
Speaker 5: It's in the canned food section. I mean, just it.

944
00:48:17,120 --> 00:48:18,799
Speaker 5: I don't I don't know how he ate him now.

945
00:48:18,840 --> 00:48:20,520
Speaker 5: I don't really care for him, but as a kid,

946
00:48:20,640 --> 00:48:23,520
Speaker 5: just just just absolutely loved him, and that was a

947
00:48:23,560 --> 00:48:24,880
Speaker 5: common snack or protein.

948
00:48:24,920 --> 00:48:28,239
Speaker 6: So did he trap the stuff that he used to

949
00:48:28,320 --> 00:48:28,719
Speaker 6: make the.

950
00:48:29,120 --> 00:48:31,680
Speaker 5: It's it's a mix, yeah, yeah, something, But he never

951
00:48:31,760 --> 00:48:34,239
Speaker 5: would consume no, the meat from what he trapped. Nope,

952
00:48:34,239 --> 00:48:37,600
Speaker 5: didn't consume any meat. You know, just hated go into

953
00:48:37,640 --> 00:48:40,759
Speaker 5: restaurants with them because there was always some sort of

954
00:48:40,800 --> 00:48:44,359
Speaker 5: battle with the server over them not having good vegetarian

955
00:48:44,600 --> 00:48:49,239
Speaker 5: dish options. Is this my meat or my meal going

956
00:48:49,320 --> 00:48:51,200
Speaker 5: to be cooked on the same pan that you know

957
00:48:51,680 --> 00:48:54,879
Speaker 5: that guy's getting a steak one. My mom would later

958
00:48:54,920 --> 00:48:57,319
Speaker 5: tell me stories of her sneaking off to McDonald's in

959
00:48:57,360 --> 00:49:01,000
Speaker 5: town because she wanted meat like to consume meat. You know,

960
00:49:01,080 --> 00:49:04,319
Speaker 5: she's definitely a person who likes her steak bloody rare.

961
00:49:05,200 --> 00:49:07,560
Speaker 5: But she was married to my dad or with my dad,

962
00:49:07,640 --> 00:49:12,080
Speaker 5: who was a staunch vegetarian. Hey, you know, there's lots

963
00:49:12,120 --> 00:49:14,720
Speaker 5: of things. I asked my dad on why he believed

964
00:49:14,760 --> 00:49:18,040
Speaker 5: the things he did and never really explained him really

965
00:49:18,080 --> 00:49:20,680
Speaker 5: well to me. So I can only guess. But you know,

966
00:49:20,719 --> 00:49:26,520
Speaker 5: he'd eat fish though, but not not red meat. Definitely, No,

967
00:49:26,600 --> 00:49:28,600
Speaker 5: he's not. Yeah, I passed away a couple of years ago.

968
00:49:28,719 --> 00:49:32,680
Speaker 1: So yeah, So at what ages you go in the

969
00:49:32,760 --> 00:49:33,760
Speaker 1: law enforcement direction?

970
00:49:34,239 --> 00:49:40,640
Speaker 5: Uh so, early twenties. So mom remarried. She married a

971
00:49:40,680 --> 00:49:43,480
Speaker 5: guy worked on the pipeline up there, my stepdad who

972
00:49:43,520 --> 00:49:45,919
Speaker 5: I called my dad, who really had a huge hand

973
00:49:45,920 --> 00:49:49,359
Speaker 5: in raising me. He's a big game hunter in Alaska.

974
00:49:49,880 --> 00:49:53,799
Speaker 5: We relocated later on to the midwest of Minnesota in

975
00:49:53,840 --> 00:49:57,520
Speaker 5: my teenage years and because the pipeline work or what

976
00:49:58,200 --> 00:50:00,520
Speaker 5: he was up in Alaska for pipeline whe He's from

977
00:50:00,520 --> 00:50:04,160
Speaker 5: the midwest, North Dakota, Minnesota, ranching family and such. Moved

978
00:50:04,239 --> 00:50:06,520
Speaker 5: up there with his brother for pipeline work and such,

979
00:50:06,680 --> 00:50:10,799
Speaker 5: and then met my mom. They they had a couple

980
00:50:10,840 --> 00:50:13,400
Speaker 5: of kids, My my brothers who were half brothers, but

981
00:50:13,440 --> 00:50:16,200
Speaker 5: I called my brothers and uh, they decided to move

982
00:50:16,280 --> 00:50:19,160
Speaker 5: closer to his family moved to the Midwest. So I

983
00:50:19,200 --> 00:50:22,120
Speaker 5: went to high school and in Minnesota went to college

984
00:50:22,160 --> 00:50:26,520
Speaker 5: there too, really struggling with what I wanted to do

985
00:50:26,640 --> 00:50:30,680
Speaker 5: for a profession. You know. I think my two dreams

986
00:50:30,719 --> 00:50:32,920
Speaker 5: as a kid was either to get paid to snowmobile

987
00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:34,919
Speaker 5: or get paid to play with legos. I think those

988
00:50:34,920 --> 00:50:37,759
Speaker 5: were the two things that I just always dreamed of

989
00:50:37,840 --> 00:50:38,720
Speaker 5: doing as a kid.

990
00:50:38,840 --> 00:50:39,399
Speaker 11: And uh.

991
00:50:41,080 --> 00:50:45,200
Speaker 5: Came out to Bozeman or West Yellowstone actually for snowmobill

992
00:50:45,320 --> 00:50:48,600
Speaker 5: vacation with my with my dad and grandpa and a

993
00:50:48,600 --> 00:50:51,760
Speaker 5: few other friends in high school. And I remember seeing

994
00:50:51,800 --> 00:50:55,680
Speaker 5: a Snowollville drive by that said law enforcement on it,

995
00:50:55,800 --> 00:50:56,600
Speaker 5: and that was like.

996
00:50:56,600 --> 00:50:57,640
Speaker 3: Way to go to crab.

997
00:50:58,000 --> 00:51:02,120
Speaker 5: I could get paid to Snowmoville, know, and so I

998
00:51:02,160 --> 00:51:04,759
Speaker 5: started thinking about it, but it took me a while

999
00:51:04,800 --> 00:51:09,800
Speaker 5: to achieve that goal. Went to college, struggled, changed majors

1000
00:51:09,880 --> 00:51:10,920
Speaker 5: multiple times.

1001
00:51:11,480 --> 00:51:11,680
Speaker 1: You know.

1002
00:51:11,719 --> 00:51:13,759
Speaker 5: My first semester at MSU, I think I had a

1003
00:51:13,800 --> 00:51:16,840
Speaker 5: point seventy five GPA because I was skiing and fishing

1004
00:51:16,920 --> 00:51:19,960
Speaker 5: too much and just doing other things that that's like

1005
00:51:20,840 --> 00:51:21,799
Speaker 5: you think there was a w.

1006
00:51:22,239 --> 00:51:23,120
Speaker 1: W D and an F.

1007
00:51:23,280 --> 00:51:24,799
Speaker 5: Maybe that's hard to recover from.

1008
00:51:24,920 --> 00:51:27,200
Speaker 3: You want to start good and then then it's harder

1009
00:51:27,200 --> 00:51:27,879
Speaker 3: to knock it down.

1010
00:51:27,960 --> 00:51:32,479
Speaker 5: Yeah, so and uh, you know, like I said, change

1011
00:51:32,520 --> 00:51:34,800
Speaker 5: majors a bunch, And eventually I took a justice studies

1012
00:51:34,840 --> 00:51:38,799
Speaker 5: class in college and I got an A. I went

1013
00:51:38,880 --> 00:51:41,719
Speaker 5: to class, I was engaged. I got an A and

1014
00:51:41,840 --> 00:51:44,480
Speaker 5: I thought, maybe there's something to this. Maybe that because

1015
00:51:44,560 --> 00:51:47,200
Speaker 5: I'm into this, you know subject, maybe this is a

1016
00:51:47,239 --> 00:51:49,799
Speaker 5: good profession for me. And that's some advice I give

1017
00:51:49,880 --> 00:51:54,000
Speaker 5: everybody who's struggling with with what what to pursue as

1018
00:51:54,040 --> 00:51:57,399
Speaker 5: a career. You know, I spent yesterday at MSU talking

1019
00:51:57,440 --> 00:52:00,120
Speaker 5: to a lot of perspective students and such and and

1020
00:52:00,280 --> 00:52:03,040
Speaker 5: just start exploring different subjects, and when you find one,

1021
00:52:03,040 --> 00:52:05,680
Speaker 5: all of a sudden, that becomes easy. You don't make

1022
00:52:05,760 --> 00:52:09,080
Speaker 5: excuses on whether or not you're going to class. You

1023
00:52:09,239 --> 00:52:12,440
Speaker 5: retain the information without studying too hard. Maybe that's a

1024
00:52:12,520 --> 00:52:15,720
Speaker 5: subject for you to pursue. And for me, criminal justice

1025
00:52:15,840 --> 00:52:20,920
Speaker 5: was the first one. I never finished college early on,

1026
00:52:21,840 --> 00:52:25,600
Speaker 5: just got frustrated. I was living in Minneapolis at the time,

1027
00:52:25,920 --> 00:52:28,960
Speaker 5: going to school there. At the University of Minnesota, really

1028
00:52:29,000 --> 00:52:33,279
Speaker 5: struggling with living in Saint Paul, Minneapolis and just being

1029
00:52:33,360 --> 00:52:36,399
Speaker 5: in a big city. And one day I just kind

1030
00:52:36,400 --> 00:52:38,480
Speaker 5: of sat down and said to myself, if I could

1031
00:52:38,760 --> 00:52:40,560
Speaker 5: go anywhere and do anything, what would I do, And

1032
00:52:40,680 --> 00:52:43,640
Speaker 5: was move back to Montana where the outdoor stuff that

1033
00:52:43,719 --> 00:52:48,480
Speaker 5: I really loved was. So I wrote myself a written

1034
00:52:48,640 --> 00:52:53,520
Speaker 5: contract because I toyed with going into the military too,

1035
00:52:53,680 --> 00:52:56,279
Speaker 5: for direction, I wrote myself a written contract that said,

1036
00:52:56,320 --> 00:52:59,600
Speaker 5: you'll move to Montana, you'll get a job in law

1037
00:52:59,680 --> 00:53:02,920
Speaker 5: enforce within two years, or you'll join the Marines. And

1038
00:53:03,120 --> 00:53:04,960
Speaker 5: I pinned that up on the wall and.

1039
00:53:05,040 --> 00:53:07,160
Speaker 4: That was my plan, and you signed it, witnessed it.

1040
00:53:07,239 --> 00:53:12,360
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, So moved to Montana. The first law enforcement

1041
00:53:12,440 --> 00:53:14,919
Speaker 5: job I got was in a detention center. So worked

1042
00:53:14,920 --> 00:53:17,480
Speaker 5: as a detention officer there for just under a year.

1043
00:53:17,600 --> 00:53:18,680
Speaker 1: Oh was that tough man.

1044
00:53:18,920 --> 00:53:23,120
Speaker 5: It was different, pretty eye opening to societal problems and

1045
00:53:24,160 --> 00:53:28,880
Speaker 5: just people in general. You know, a wide variety of

1046
00:53:29,000 --> 00:53:31,800
Speaker 5: people that get arrested. You know, people make mistakes and

1047
00:53:31,880 --> 00:53:35,360
Speaker 5: people have bad intentions. So I was young, I was

1048
00:53:35,440 --> 00:53:38,759
Speaker 5: twenty one years old, you know, pretty green to the

1049
00:53:38,840 --> 00:53:43,719
Speaker 5: world and experience. It was eye opening, but it did

1050
00:53:44,640 --> 00:53:48,560
Speaker 5: further my interest in law enforcement. So a year into that,

1051
00:53:48,719 --> 00:53:51,680
Speaker 5: I got hired with a municipal police department. Worked there

1052
00:53:51,719 --> 00:53:54,799
Speaker 5: for seven years, did all sorts of things from drug

1053
00:53:54,840 --> 00:54:01,520
Speaker 5: task force work to traffic unit that was yep, that

1054
00:54:01,640 --> 00:54:05,000
Speaker 5: was here in Montana, and then just a couple things

1055
00:54:05,040 --> 00:54:09,120
Speaker 5: started piling on. I never finished college, wanted to finish

1056
00:54:09,200 --> 00:54:11,480
Speaker 5: that didn't have a job where I got paid to

1057
00:54:11,480 --> 00:54:14,839
Speaker 5: snowmobill like I originally thought. You know, conservation was still

1058
00:54:14,880 --> 00:54:18,640
Speaker 5: really important to me, and I just city life was good,

1059
00:54:18,719 --> 00:54:22,800
Speaker 5: but I really wanted to just be outside, and so

1060
00:54:23,000 --> 00:54:25,759
Speaker 5: went back to school. I was married then both my

1061
00:54:26,120 --> 00:54:29,400
Speaker 5: wife and I went back to school together. She carried

1062
00:54:29,480 --> 00:54:32,640
Speaker 5: me through calculus and a couple other classes. She's definitely

1063
00:54:32,840 --> 00:54:36,200
Speaker 5: got the brains of the two of us. And then

1064
00:54:37,400 --> 00:54:40,520
Speaker 5: started working some conservation jobs while in college. So I

1065
00:54:40,560 --> 00:54:44,239
Speaker 5: worked for the US Fish Wildlife Service doing upland game

1066
00:54:44,280 --> 00:54:47,800
Speaker 5: bird and waterfowl restoration work. Really ok, yeah, in the

1067
00:54:47,840 --> 00:54:50,680
Speaker 5: midwest of Minnesota, because we'd moved back to Minnesota to

1068
00:54:50,760 --> 00:54:54,680
Speaker 5: go back to school, mostly because we had kids, and

1069
00:54:55,280 --> 00:54:57,160
Speaker 5: my parents were there and said they'd help if we

1070
00:54:57,239 --> 00:54:58,160
Speaker 5: want to go back to school.

1071
00:54:58,200 --> 00:54:59,759
Speaker 1: So it was nice to have that safety net.

1072
00:55:00,640 --> 00:55:04,120
Speaker 5: And yeah, then I worked as a wetland specialist for

1073
00:55:04,239 --> 00:55:09,000
Speaker 5: the NRCS delineating and classifying wetlands in South Dakota and

1074
00:55:09,320 --> 00:55:11,000
Speaker 5: just kept wanting to get back to Montana.

1075
00:55:12,760 --> 00:55:15,359
Speaker 1: That had to have been a semi contentious gig.

1076
00:55:16,920 --> 00:55:19,640
Speaker 5: It was, so you know, the wetland job you're talking.

1077
00:55:19,520 --> 00:55:20,839
Speaker 1: About, Yeah, I mean when you got to go out

1078
00:55:20,880 --> 00:55:23,719
Speaker 1: and break the news definitely to someone who's like, well,

1079
00:55:23,719 --> 00:55:24,480
Speaker 1: I'm going to drain all that.

1080
00:55:24,680 --> 00:55:27,920
Speaker 5: That's exactly was my role. So so you had agriculture

1081
00:55:28,000 --> 00:55:31,440
Speaker 5: producers at a time when corn and soybean prices were

1082
00:55:31,520 --> 00:55:35,040
Speaker 5: really high, but it was also wet, and so they're

1083
00:55:35,120 --> 00:55:39,799
Speaker 5: looking at putting more acreage into production. So they want

1084
00:55:39,840 --> 00:55:43,239
Speaker 5: to tile everything, tile, drain, and so there's an application

1085
00:55:43,400 --> 00:55:47,040
Speaker 5: process of regulatory process, and so myself and others would

1086
00:55:47,080 --> 00:55:50,479
Speaker 5: go out and we'd we'd classify the wetlands by looking

1087
00:55:50,560 --> 00:55:56,480
Speaker 5: at historical data, aerial photography. We'd determine the hydrology, the

1088
00:55:56,640 --> 00:55:57,360
Speaker 5: soil type.

1089
00:55:58,440 --> 00:56:01,960
Speaker 1: We would uh the vegetation regime too, right.

1090
00:56:01,960 --> 00:56:06,960
Speaker 5: Yep, catalog the hydrophobic and hydrophilic plants, the invertebrates, and

1091
00:56:07,040 --> 00:56:09,000
Speaker 5: then there's a whole process that kind of take in

1092
00:56:09,080 --> 00:56:13,080
Speaker 5: all those circumstances into it gives you a determination of

1093
00:56:13,120 --> 00:56:15,759
Speaker 5: what kind of wetland it is. And then it then

1094
00:56:16,080 --> 00:56:18,440
Speaker 5: whatever rules or what they may be allowed to do

1095
00:56:18,560 --> 00:56:22,280
Speaker 5: with it, drain it, til it or maybe leave it alone.

1096
00:56:22,320 --> 00:56:23,000
Speaker 5: They can't touch it.

1097
00:56:23,200 --> 00:56:25,040
Speaker 1: I was on a property recently and they had that

1098
00:56:25,200 --> 00:56:28,120
Speaker 1: work had just been done. Yeah, and I'm surprised how

1099
00:56:28,200 --> 00:56:31,200
Speaker 1: like NAT's ass it was. I mean they had things

1100
00:56:31,239 --> 00:56:36,239
Speaker 1: size at his table, like contours, not things. It's not individuals,

1101
00:56:36,320 --> 00:56:41,480
Speaker 1: but the contour of the wetland was very precise.

1102
00:56:41,600 --> 00:56:45,440
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, yeah. We used trimbles and rchis to go

1103
00:56:45,480 --> 00:56:47,840
Speaker 5: out there by hand when we do the inspection.

1104
00:56:47,560 --> 00:56:51,120
Speaker 8: And because you want to get like a cross section

1105
00:56:51,400 --> 00:56:54,480
Speaker 8: strata layer and then you can see like how long

1106
00:56:54,560 --> 00:56:57,400
Speaker 8: this has been a wetland yep, and the changes that

1107
00:56:57,480 --> 00:56:58,120
Speaker 8: it's gone through.

1108
00:56:58,239 --> 00:57:00,440
Speaker 1: And well imagine people want to argue about it too,

1109
00:57:00,480 --> 00:57:04,239
Speaker 1: and they're gonna be like shit, right yesterday when I

1110
00:57:04,320 --> 00:57:06,279
Speaker 1: was a kid, that was a you know, dry as

1111
00:57:06,280 --> 00:57:06,800
Speaker 1: a desert.

1112
00:57:07,000 --> 00:57:09,680
Speaker 5: Well, and that's why the historical stuff came into effect.

1113
00:57:09,760 --> 00:57:12,200
Speaker 5: You know, you'll go back through decades of aerial photography

1114
00:57:12,880 --> 00:57:16,000
Speaker 5: and compare that to weather data to see, you know,

1115
00:57:17,160 --> 00:57:18,960
Speaker 5: if it was wet, you know, if it was still

1116
00:57:19,000 --> 00:57:20,160
Speaker 5: wet and dry years.

1117
00:57:20,000 --> 00:57:21,440
Speaker 1: And such like. Oh that's good.

1118
00:57:21,560 --> 00:57:24,440
Speaker 5: Yeah, it was a really interesting job. Really loved it.

1119
00:57:25,200 --> 00:57:28,240
Speaker 1: And then uh am I overblowing the contentious aspect of

1120
00:57:28,320 --> 00:57:30,320
Speaker 1: it was more Was it more cooperative?

1121
00:57:30,480 --> 00:57:32,440
Speaker 5: It was more cooperative for sure. I mean there was

1122
00:57:32,520 --> 00:57:36,600
Speaker 5: definitely instances where disagreements occurred, you know, where where a

1123
00:57:36,680 --> 00:57:43,080
Speaker 5: producer might uh challenge the determination. You know, sometimes it

1124
00:57:43,160 --> 00:57:46,400
Speaker 5: got overturned, sometimes it didn't. But it was a collaborative

1125
00:57:46,840 --> 00:57:48,680
Speaker 5: effort between us and the producer.

1126
00:57:49,120 --> 00:57:51,360
Speaker 1: We hunted on it. We had hunting permission in Michigan's

1127
00:57:51,400 --> 00:57:53,480
Speaker 1: Upper Peninsula in a guy's place. Man, he got a

1128
00:57:53,520 --> 00:57:55,400
Speaker 1: bunch of trouble for draining and something he wasn't supposed

1129
00:57:55,400 --> 00:57:58,640
Speaker 1: to drain once and his name was Herb for something.

1130
00:57:58,680 --> 00:58:02,840
Speaker 1: We always called him Herb beside. But it wasn't even

1131
00:58:02,840 --> 00:58:04,640
Speaker 1: nervous that he just drained it. Yeah.

1132
00:58:05,960 --> 00:58:08,560
Speaker 5: Yeah, well, and you know, so that was that job

1133
00:58:08,680 --> 00:58:11,000
Speaker 5: led to the job I have now. So I started

1134
00:58:11,040 --> 00:58:13,960
Speaker 5: to miss law enforcement. You know, you guys were talking

1135
00:58:14,000 --> 00:58:18,320
Speaker 5: about the respectful, tight knit group of the football team

1136
00:58:18,360 --> 00:58:21,280
Speaker 5: you were interacting with last night. You know, I missed

1137
00:58:21,320 --> 00:58:24,760
Speaker 5: that brotherhood that law enforcement had, that group of people

1138
00:58:24,800 --> 00:58:28,040
Speaker 5: who are literally willing to sacrifice themselves for each other

1139
00:58:29,440 --> 00:58:33,560
Speaker 5: and and experience a lot of uh stress together. And

1140
00:58:33,640 --> 00:58:36,240
Speaker 5: when you experience stress together, you build bonds. You know,

1141
00:58:36,360 --> 00:58:38,320
Speaker 5: you guys probably have experienced it out in the field.

1142
00:58:38,840 --> 00:58:41,760
Speaker 5: The hunt goes perfectly correct, it's fun. But the ones

1143
00:58:41,800 --> 00:58:44,640
Speaker 5: that are really memorable the ones that go to crap

1144
00:58:44,880 --> 00:58:48,200
Speaker 5: basically and you you persevere and you you get through it.

1145
00:58:48,920 --> 00:58:51,560
Speaker 5: I missed that bond, missed that group of people, uh

1146
00:58:51,680 --> 00:58:54,720
Speaker 5: missed the law enforcement asset of public service, but wanted

1147
00:58:54,760 --> 00:58:58,120
Speaker 5: to stay in conservation and came out to Montana became

1148
00:58:58,160 --> 00:58:58,960
Speaker 5: a game warden here.

1149
00:58:59,840 --> 00:59:01,680
Speaker 1: Is that pretty competitive at the time?

1150
00:59:02,200 --> 00:59:03,640
Speaker 9: It is? It still is?

1151
00:59:03,840 --> 00:59:07,800
Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, we we definitely get a decent amount

1152
00:59:07,840 --> 00:59:12,160
Speaker 5: of applicants, but we have vacancies every year, so we're

1153
00:59:12,160 --> 00:59:17,560
Speaker 5: always hiring. From what I've seen, people stay longer in

1154
00:59:17,640 --> 00:59:20,480
Speaker 5: this profession than maybe some other law enforcement profession.

1155
00:59:20,720 --> 00:59:26,160
Speaker 1: So is the flow does the flow normally go that

1156
00:59:26,560 --> 00:59:30,640
Speaker 1: people are in police work and go into game warden

1157
00:59:30,720 --> 00:59:32,600
Speaker 1: or is it like a two way two way door

1158
00:59:32,800 --> 00:59:35,640
Speaker 1: or I've seen it go way you like, it's a

1159
00:59:35,720 --> 00:59:37,480
Speaker 1: goal from game warning to be like, man, I'm just

1160
00:59:37,520 --> 00:59:40,040
Speaker 1: going back and straight up, like highway patrol or whatever.

1161
00:59:40,240 --> 00:59:43,760
Speaker 5: Yeah, part of law enforcement is it's really hard to

1162
00:59:43,840 --> 00:59:46,720
Speaker 5: do to understand what it is until you're in it.

1163
00:59:47,400 --> 00:59:48,840
Speaker 1: And you know.

1164
00:59:49,520 --> 00:59:51,640
Speaker 5: Another piece of advice I give for people trying to

1165
00:59:51,640 --> 00:59:53,160
Speaker 5: figure out their career and they come to me and say,

1166
00:59:53,200 --> 00:59:54,880
Speaker 5: I want to be a game warden. I tell them

1167
00:59:54,920 --> 00:59:57,120
Speaker 5: we'll get a degree and whatever. Your second choice is,

1168
00:59:57,880 --> 01:00:01,440
Speaker 5: get a degree in in don't get degree in criminal justice.

1169
01:00:01,600 --> 01:00:04,040
Speaker 5: You know, maybe get a degree in wildlife management. You're

1170
01:00:04,080 --> 01:00:07,600
Speaker 5: really interested in conservation. That way, if the law enforcement

1171
01:00:07,680 --> 01:00:09,880
Speaker 5: side doesn't work out for you, you have a backup

1172
01:00:09,920 --> 01:00:12,120
Speaker 5: plan and you're not now I have to go back

1173
01:00:12,120 --> 01:00:14,200
Speaker 5: to school because you don't know if it's a good

1174
01:00:14,240 --> 01:00:17,480
Speaker 5: fit for you until you try it. And we have

1175
01:00:17,520 --> 01:00:20,520
Speaker 5: a decent amount of people wash out of training programs,

1176
01:00:20,800 --> 01:00:22,920
Speaker 5: and we have a lot of people who just decide,

1177
01:00:22,960 --> 01:00:24,760
Speaker 5: I just I just don't like this. I don't like

1178
01:00:24,880 --> 01:00:27,680
Speaker 5: being a referee for people's recreation and fun out there,

1179
01:00:28,160 --> 01:00:29,959
Speaker 5: and they decide to go into something else.

1180
01:00:30,920 --> 01:00:34,480
Speaker 8: That's interesting. Is that how a lot of people see it?

1181
01:00:34,640 --> 01:00:36,880
Speaker 8: Or is that Adam Pankraft's original.

1182
01:00:39,320 --> 01:00:41,280
Speaker 5: You know, my kids play a lot of high school sports,

1183
01:00:41,320 --> 01:00:44,440
Speaker 5: and I have a lot of empathy for the referees

1184
01:00:44,480 --> 01:00:48,080
Speaker 5: out there because I see connections for what they do

1185
01:00:48,400 --> 01:00:51,840
Speaker 5: to me. You're in the public eye, you're correcting people's

1186
01:00:51,960 --> 01:00:55,080
Speaker 5: fun and sometimes the correction and message you have.

1187
01:00:55,200 --> 01:00:58,040
Speaker 4: And rules you're deliver, you're a buzzkiller exactly, you know.

1188
01:01:00,360 --> 01:01:02,000
Speaker 5: So I have a lot of empathy for them, And

1189
01:01:02,440 --> 01:01:05,240
Speaker 5: I've asked a lot of people come to me who

1190
01:01:05,360 --> 01:01:07,440
Speaker 5: know sports, like, have you ever looked at a refereen

1191
01:01:07,440 --> 01:01:09,320
Speaker 5: and thought that looks like a cool job. If they

1192
01:01:09,400 --> 01:01:12,240
Speaker 5: say no, maybe my job isn't the right one for you.

1193
01:01:12,320 --> 01:01:12,880
Speaker 5: It depends.

1194
01:01:13,000 --> 01:01:13,160
Speaker 7: You know.

1195
01:01:13,560 --> 01:01:15,240
Speaker 5: That's not all we do, but it's a part. And

1196
01:01:15,280 --> 01:01:17,160
Speaker 5: you have to have that ability to be able to

1197
01:01:17,240 --> 01:01:19,760
Speaker 5: go into a group of people at a phishing access

1198
01:01:19,800 --> 01:01:21,640
Speaker 5: site and tell them what you're doing is illegal.

1199
01:01:21,720 --> 01:01:22,480
Speaker 1: You have to stop.

1200
01:01:23,040 --> 01:01:25,960
Speaker 5: And you might get oh, it's not being a buzzkiller.

1201
01:01:26,080 --> 01:01:28,200
Speaker 5: You know, you're ruining our fund. But the rules are

1202
01:01:28,240 --> 01:01:32,400
Speaker 5: there for a reason for safety or for conservation and

1203
01:01:32,560 --> 01:01:33,720
Speaker 5: protection of habitat.

1204
01:01:33,880 --> 01:01:36,320
Speaker 1: So this is a tricky one. This is gonna be

1205
01:01:36,320 --> 01:01:37,800
Speaker 1: a tricky for you to answer. You don't need to

1206
01:01:37,840 --> 01:01:40,800
Speaker 1: spend too much time on it. But uh, We've got

1207
01:01:40,800 --> 01:01:42,040
Speaker 1: a lot of ton of things I want to ask

1208
01:01:42,040 --> 01:01:48,840
Speaker 1: you about. There has been how do you handle when

1209
01:01:48,880 --> 01:01:52,080
Speaker 1: there's rules Like, there's certain rules, imagine they're just like

1210
01:01:52,200 --> 01:01:56,000
Speaker 1: seems so concrete and if that rule wasn't in place,

1211
01:01:56,040 --> 01:01:59,880
Speaker 1: the whole system would collapse. Okay, But there's gotta be

1212
01:01:59,880 --> 01:02:03,360
Speaker 1: a the rules where you might look and be like, yeah,

1213
01:02:03,480 --> 01:02:07,440
Speaker 1: you know it is confusing, sure it and you don't

1214
01:02:07,440 --> 01:02:09,680
Speaker 1: need to say which ones or it is poorly written

1215
01:02:10,040 --> 01:02:12,560
Speaker 1: or I really can't articulate to you the why this

1216
01:02:12,760 --> 01:02:15,640
Speaker 1: is the that way? Yeah? Is it hard to jump

1217
01:02:15,680 --> 01:02:18,960
Speaker 1: into that mindset of having it be that I'm not here.

1218
01:02:20,240 --> 01:02:22,560
Speaker 1: I'm not like an arbiter. I'm not here to do

1219
01:02:22,840 --> 01:02:26,400
Speaker 1: value judgments. I'm here to be like, this is my code, sure,

1220
01:02:26,680 --> 01:02:29,120
Speaker 1: and I enforce this code and I and it's not

1221
01:02:29,280 --> 01:02:32,800
Speaker 1: my I don't need to morally wrestle with you know.

1222
01:02:33,120 --> 01:02:34,680
Speaker 4: Yeah what I'm up against here?

1223
01:02:34,800 --> 01:02:36,600
Speaker 5: No, I know what you're talking about. I mean there's

1224
01:02:36,640 --> 01:02:38,880
Speaker 5: rules that are pretty black and white. I mean, anybody

1225
01:02:38,960 --> 01:02:41,280
Speaker 5: who's grown up around fishing knows you have to have

1226
01:02:41,320 --> 01:02:43,800
Speaker 5: affiicient license. It's just it's just a general rule. It

1227
01:02:43,800 --> 01:02:46,280
Speaker 5: doesn't matter what state you go to, and so I

1228
01:02:46,320 --> 01:02:49,160
Speaker 5: have little patience for people's excuse of I didn't know

1229
01:02:49,280 --> 01:02:51,720
Speaker 5: I need a fishing license. There's just nowhere in the

1230
01:02:51,840 --> 01:02:54,560
Speaker 5: United States that you don't need a fishing license. Obviously

1231
01:02:54,720 --> 01:02:57,480
Speaker 5: there's age groups or groups that maybe don't need them,

1232
01:02:57,560 --> 01:03:00,600
Speaker 5: from from the elderly to the young, but everyone needs

1233
01:03:00,600 --> 01:03:03,440
Speaker 5: efficient license, and so the excuse of I didn't know

1234
01:03:03,600 --> 01:03:06,640
Speaker 5: doesn't hold weight with me. And there's a general acceptance

1235
01:03:06,720 --> 01:03:12,800
Speaker 5: of ignorance of the laws, not a defense. But you know,

1236
01:03:13,080 --> 01:03:16,880
Speaker 5: as we create laws and regulations, sometimes we don't know

1237
01:03:17,120 --> 01:03:19,640
Speaker 5: the effects of them until we try and implement them.

1238
01:03:20,200 --> 01:03:23,000
Speaker 5: And our job and enforcement is to implement and enforce

1239
01:03:23,040 --> 01:03:25,720
Speaker 5: the laws. You know, if your three branches of government,

1240
01:03:25,840 --> 01:03:30,560
Speaker 5: Legislature creates law, the courts interpret them, and the executive branch,

1241
01:03:30,640 --> 01:03:34,040
Speaker 5: which we're part of, enforces them or implements them, so

1242
01:03:34,200 --> 01:03:38,400
Speaker 5: that implementation, you know, you'll have decision makers up on

1243
01:03:38,560 --> 01:03:40,960
Speaker 5: high that'll give us a law or give us priorities,

1244
01:03:42,240 --> 01:03:45,040
Speaker 5: and we'll implement them. But part of my role as

1245
01:03:45,080 --> 01:03:48,160
Speaker 5: an administrator is to send up feedback back up the

1246
01:03:48,240 --> 01:03:51,720
Speaker 5: chain of how that implementation went, how the enforcement went,

1247
01:03:51,800 --> 01:03:54,920
Speaker 5: where their issues, where we were running into problems in

1248
01:03:54,960 --> 01:03:57,520
Speaker 5: the courts where the courts are interpret it different than

1249
01:03:57,560 --> 01:04:02,720
Speaker 5: the maybe legislative intent, and so sometimes we use that

1250
01:04:03,040 --> 01:04:06,760
Speaker 5: implementation to clarify laws. That's why you may see laws

1251
01:04:06,920 --> 01:04:07,720
Speaker 5: change over time.

1252
01:04:08,040 --> 01:04:10,240
Speaker 1: Oh, because you just keep running into trouble every time

1253
01:04:10,280 --> 01:04:12,520
Speaker 1: you go to prosc someone tries to prosecute and they

1254
01:04:12,600 --> 01:04:13,400
Speaker 1: run into trouble.

1255
01:04:13,200 --> 01:04:16,680
Speaker 5: A loophole is found, or it's ambiguous. You know, if

1256
01:04:16,720 --> 01:04:19,040
Speaker 5: we run into issues where the general public just is

1257
01:04:19,160 --> 01:04:22,520
Speaker 5: confused or our own staff, you know, that's a good feedback.

1258
01:04:22,600 --> 01:04:25,080
Speaker 5: If our own staff game wardens are confused what the

1259
01:04:25,160 --> 01:04:27,080
Speaker 5: role is in this, that's a good sign the public

1260
01:04:27,240 --> 01:04:29,480
Speaker 5: is too, and we'll try and fix that, you know,

1261
01:04:29,600 --> 01:04:32,280
Speaker 5: as soon as we can. Sometimes the government process is slow,

1262
01:04:33,640 --> 01:04:35,720
Speaker 5: but we have a lot of other tools and enforcement

1263
01:04:35,880 --> 01:04:37,840
Speaker 5: ticket is the last thing we want to do or

1264
01:04:37,880 --> 01:04:38,840
Speaker 5: take someone to jail.

1265
01:04:39,240 --> 01:04:39,360
Speaker 1: You know.

1266
01:04:39,440 --> 01:04:42,320
Speaker 5: Officers have discretion, and the way we look at discretion

1267
01:04:42,560 --> 01:04:44,480
Speaker 5: is what kind of action do we need to take

1268
01:04:44,600 --> 01:04:47,360
Speaker 5: to change behavior? If me just walking up to you

1269
01:04:47,440 --> 01:04:50,280
Speaker 5: and reminding you, hey, put your dog on a leash

1270
01:04:50,320 --> 01:04:52,600
Speaker 5: in a state park is good enough, and you do it,

1271
01:04:52,680 --> 01:04:54,720
Speaker 5: and you comply and we never have to talk again.

1272
01:04:54,800 --> 01:04:57,360
Speaker 5: Then there's no reason for a ticket. But if I

1273
01:04:57,440 --> 01:04:59,439
Speaker 5: tell you that and then you give me the finger

1274
01:04:59,520 --> 01:05:02,520
Speaker 5: and walk up off and start, you know, play and

1275
01:05:02,640 --> 01:05:04,920
Speaker 5: catch with your dog. Now we're gonna have to step

1276
01:05:05,040 --> 01:05:09,919
Speaker 5: up to a higher level of enforcement. And and most

1277
01:05:09,960 --> 01:05:12,360
Speaker 5: people are complying. Most people takes is the game warning

1278
01:05:12,480 --> 01:05:17,720
Speaker 5: driving by, and everybody's like, oh game wards on, and

1279
01:05:17,840 --> 01:05:20,440
Speaker 5: now everybody's you know, behaving, And so a lot of

1280
01:05:20,600 --> 01:05:22,680
Speaker 5: a lot of our efforts are just being out there,

1281
01:05:22,760 --> 01:05:26,520
Speaker 5: interacting with people and being present. And for the most part,

1282
01:05:26,840 --> 01:05:29,520
Speaker 5: people don't need roles and laws because they're good. They're

1283
01:05:29,600 --> 01:05:31,280
Speaker 5: good members of society and they want.

1284
01:05:31,160 --> 01:05:34,080
Speaker 1: To do the right thing. You get in the time

1285
01:05:34,120 --> 01:05:37,600
Speaker 1: i've known you, you get I don't want to say, wrangled.

1286
01:05:37,600 --> 01:05:39,880
Speaker 1: And this part of your job, you get involved in

1287
01:05:39,960 --> 01:05:44,640
Speaker 1: animal tax Yeah, and here because of the nature where

1288
01:05:44,640 --> 01:05:47,360
Speaker 1: you are, you get involved in like serious animal tacks.

1289
01:05:48,880 --> 01:05:51,040
Speaker 8: Get involved from a law enforcement point of view, not

1290
01:05:51,200 --> 01:05:52,880
Speaker 8: like you step out of the office.

1291
01:05:53,320 --> 01:05:55,640
Speaker 1: Oh now you're getting attacked by animals. The owner's an

1292
01:05:55,640 --> 01:05:57,560
Speaker 1: animal tag, it's it's under your purview.

1293
01:05:57,680 --> 01:06:00,240
Speaker 5: Sure, I've been charged by a few things, but I've

1294
01:06:00,320 --> 01:06:03,720
Speaker 5: never been injured by an animal yet. But yeah, so

1295
01:06:04,120 --> 01:06:09,200
Speaker 5: you know wildlife human attacks. Every state has some sort

1296
01:06:09,240 --> 01:06:12,000
Speaker 5: of process or role to play in that when it

1297
01:06:12,040 --> 01:06:15,800
Speaker 5: comes to wildlife management. And in Montana, you know, say

1298
01:06:15,840 --> 01:06:18,240
Speaker 5: a grizzly bear gets into a conflict and causes an

1299
01:06:18,280 --> 01:06:22,680
Speaker 5: injury or death of a human, local law enforcement is

1300
01:06:22,760 --> 01:06:26,080
Speaker 5: there and responsible to so the local sheriff's department, maybe

1301
01:06:26,120 --> 01:06:29,480
Speaker 5: the land management agency. So we have a lot of

1302
01:06:29,560 --> 01:06:32,120
Speaker 5: federal lands in Montana, so forest Service.

1303
01:06:31,920 --> 01:06:33,960
Speaker 1: Well, I want to back itself as people will understand that.

1304
01:06:34,040 --> 01:06:37,959
Speaker 1: So let's say that a let's say that a hunter

1305
01:06:40,160 --> 01:06:44,360
Speaker 1: National Forest Land YEP in the state of Montana gets

1306
01:06:44,440 --> 01:06:47,800
Speaker 1: killed by a grizzly bear. Correct, walk through how that

1307
01:06:47,960 --> 01:06:49,000
Speaker 1: pie is divided up.

1308
01:06:50,200 --> 01:06:53,320
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's there's a lot going up there is. There's

1309
01:06:53,360 --> 01:06:56,240
Speaker 5: a lot of agencies with a lot of responsibility. So

1310
01:06:56,640 --> 01:06:59,640
Speaker 5: for one, the most important thing for us is human

1311
01:06:59,720 --> 01:07:03,800
Speaker 5: safe public safety. So when there is an incident like that,

1312
01:07:04,000 --> 01:07:06,840
Speaker 5: we're going to respond with an effort to stop whatever

1313
01:07:07,040 --> 01:07:10,320
Speaker 5: danger is happening and make sure no one, you know,

1314
01:07:10,520 --> 01:07:13,480
Speaker 5: anybody injured gets the medical attention they need and then

1315
01:07:13,560 --> 01:07:17,720
Speaker 5: to stop any further public safety issue. That's the priority

1316
01:07:17,840 --> 01:07:21,200
Speaker 5: of everybody, doesn't matter what jurisdiction, what patch you're wearing

1317
01:07:21,240 --> 01:07:24,360
Speaker 5: on your shoulders. That's the first priority is to stop

1318
01:07:24,720 --> 01:07:26,360
Speaker 5: whatever bad thing is happening.

1319
01:07:26,440 --> 01:07:29,440
Speaker 1: Yeh in this case meaning like assessed whether this is

1320
01:07:30,880 --> 01:07:32,840
Speaker 1: correct going to happen like a second time someone walks

1321
01:07:32,840 --> 01:07:34,800
Speaker 1: into this area, Yeah, exactly, So that could.

1322
01:07:34,640 --> 01:07:37,080
Speaker 5: Be closing an area until we figure out what happens.

1323
01:07:37,080 --> 01:07:39,280
Speaker 5: So that could be a management action on the animal,

1324
01:07:39,400 --> 01:07:42,400
Speaker 5: all those type of things. And so the jurisdictions, you know,

1325
01:07:42,600 --> 01:07:45,240
Speaker 5: if it happened on US four Service land, their law

1326
01:07:45,320 --> 01:07:49,520
Speaker 5: enforcement divisions jurisdiction over their property rules and regulations. The

1327
01:07:49,600 --> 01:07:53,760
Speaker 5: state of Montana has jurisdiction over wild animals in Montana,

1328
01:07:54,000 --> 01:07:56,960
Speaker 5: grizzy bears. There's some nuance because they're federally protected. The

1329
01:07:57,080 --> 01:08:01,040
Speaker 5: US Fish Wildlife Service still has general management authority, but

1330
01:08:01,120 --> 01:08:04,160
Speaker 5: there's an MoU sign between them and Fish Wildlife and

1331
01:08:04,240 --> 01:08:06,360
Speaker 5: parks that where we do a lot of on the

1332
01:08:06,440 --> 01:08:11,880
Speaker 5: ground stuff, but the over memoryanum of understanding or memorandum

1333
01:08:11,920 --> 01:08:13,120
Speaker 5: of agreement m aay.

1334
01:08:13,800 --> 01:08:17,080
Speaker 3: So they basically sign off managing that situation to you.

1335
01:08:17,200 --> 01:08:18,720
Speaker 3: They're not like wait till we get there.

1336
01:08:18,920 --> 01:08:19,120
Speaker 6: Yeah.

1337
01:08:19,280 --> 01:08:24,280
Speaker 5: So over some overarching decisions would would be handled by

1338
01:08:24,320 --> 01:08:27,640
Speaker 5: the US Fish Wildlife Service. Let's say we capture a

1339
01:08:27,760 --> 01:08:32,400
Speaker 5: live grizzly bear that maybe we're suspected to be responsible

1340
01:08:32,479 --> 01:08:34,880
Speaker 5: for the incident. The US Fish Wildlife Service would be

1341
01:08:34,880 --> 01:08:37,080
Speaker 5: heavily involved in the decision making on.

1342
01:08:37,240 --> 01:08:40,280
Speaker 4: That the what to do with that bear and that

1343
01:08:40,400 --> 01:08:42,200
Speaker 4: barrel exactly exactly.

1344
01:08:42,640 --> 01:08:45,639
Speaker 10: So so like if you if a bear kills someone,

1345
01:08:45,760 --> 01:08:48,080
Speaker 10: you determined like you need to you need to kill

1346
01:08:48,160 --> 01:08:51,439
Speaker 10: that bear, you have to run that past Fish and

1347
01:08:51,479 --> 01:08:53,960
Speaker 10: Wildlife first, correct, Yeah, it can't make that decision.

1348
01:08:54,080 --> 01:08:56,240
Speaker 5: It depends on the situation there. There could be an

1349
01:08:56,280 --> 01:08:59,240
Speaker 5: instance right on the ground where a person could well.

1350
01:08:59,120 --> 01:09:01,320
Speaker 1: You've had that happy where you went to an attack

1351
01:09:01,439 --> 01:09:04,880
Speaker 1: site and the bear is still hanging out, correct, yep, Yeah,

1352
01:09:05,000 --> 01:09:06,599
Speaker 1: so then you don't need to like call someone.

1353
01:09:06,800 --> 01:09:10,559
Speaker 5: No, no, there's you know, any person you know, which

1354
01:09:10,600 --> 01:09:13,559
Speaker 5: includes law enforcement, has the right to defend themselves. I see,

1355
01:09:13,760 --> 01:09:16,200
Speaker 5: And there's decision making on the ground that can occur

1356
01:09:16,320 --> 01:09:19,920
Speaker 5: where this animal is still a threat, its behavior is predatory,

1357
01:09:21,000 --> 01:09:23,120
Speaker 5: or someone's in danger and we have to make a

1358
01:09:23,240 --> 01:09:26,680
Speaker 5: management decision or defend life, you know right there in there.

1359
01:09:26,720 --> 01:09:28,439
Speaker 1: I got, Yeah, that's that's like you said, Like any

1360
01:09:28,479 --> 01:09:30,680
Speaker 1: person right you're in a situation then which would be.

1361
01:09:31,040 --> 01:09:33,519
Speaker 5: Correct applicable to anyone correct. Anybody has the right to

1362
01:09:33,600 --> 01:09:37,639
Speaker 5: defend themselves from danger. And then the other big part

1363
01:09:37,800 --> 01:09:40,960
Speaker 5: of the jurisdictional thing is is when you have a

1364
01:09:41,040 --> 01:09:45,120
Speaker 5: human that's injured or deceased, the sheriff's department or the

1365
01:09:45,200 --> 01:09:49,479
Speaker 5: corner has jurisdiction over that investigation the unintended death of

1366
01:09:49,520 --> 01:09:53,160
Speaker 5: a human or injury to humans. So there's a huge

1367
01:09:53,240 --> 01:09:57,120
Speaker 5: collaborative effort between federal law enforcement if they're the land

1368
01:09:57,160 --> 01:10:01,080
Speaker 5: Manager or the US Fish Wildlife Service with grizzly bears

1369
01:10:01,600 --> 01:10:05,439
Speaker 5: Montana Fish Wildlife in parks, and then local law enforcement,

1370
01:10:05,520 --> 01:10:08,800
Speaker 5: which sometimes could involve city, county, highway patrol whoever is

1371
01:10:08,840 --> 01:10:13,000
Speaker 5: basically available. You know, our role as game wardens in

1372
01:10:13,040 --> 01:10:16,280
Speaker 5: the state of Montana is to investigate that scene in

1373
01:10:16,479 --> 01:10:20,840
Speaker 5: one confirm if an animal was present or responsible, so

1374
01:10:20,960 --> 01:10:24,120
Speaker 5: it could be reported as an animal attack. But unless

1375
01:10:24,160 --> 01:10:26,240
Speaker 5: we have a dead grizzly bear right there, you know,

1376
01:10:26,320 --> 01:10:28,400
Speaker 5: in the middle of the attack, we don't know for sure.

1377
01:10:28,600 --> 01:10:32,559
Speaker 5: And so it's looking at DNA evidence, looking at surrounding evidents,

1378
01:10:32,600 --> 01:10:39,960
Speaker 5: looking for caches or bear dens tracks, injury assessment, all

1379
01:10:40,000 --> 01:10:42,959
Speaker 5: those type of things to determine if an animal is involved,

1380
01:10:43,800 --> 01:10:47,760
Speaker 5: determined species of that animal, and then look at behavior

1381
01:10:47,880 --> 01:10:51,400
Speaker 5: also our best interpretation of was it acting defensively, was

1382
01:10:51,439 --> 01:10:55,080
Speaker 5: it acting predatorily? Is it diseased or something it's just

1383
01:10:55,200 --> 01:10:59,640
Speaker 5: acting out of its nature totally something wrong. And then

1384
01:10:59,680 --> 01:11:02,599
Speaker 5: the thing is that management decision. What do we need

1385
01:11:02,680 --> 01:11:06,720
Speaker 5: to do for management on the situation of whatever animals responsible.

1386
01:11:07,040 --> 01:11:09,640
Speaker 5: Do we leave it alone, do we haze it, do

1387
01:11:09,760 --> 01:11:13,400
Speaker 5: we capture it, do we euthanize it? Or you know,

1388
01:11:13,640 --> 01:11:17,479
Speaker 5: thinking about location. Is in a remote location or is

1389
01:11:17,520 --> 01:11:20,200
Speaker 5: it right in the middle of town. If the behavior

1390
01:11:20,360 --> 01:11:25,400
Speaker 5: was defensive, it's it's unlikely it's going to happen again soon.

1391
01:11:25,920 --> 01:11:29,400
Speaker 5: If it's predatory and they've identified humans as a food source,

1392
01:11:30,240 --> 01:11:33,320
Speaker 5: there's a current human threat. Or if the animals habituated,

1393
01:11:34,200 --> 01:11:36,960
Speaker 5: you know, it's lost its fear of humans, identified humans

1394
01:11:36,960 --> 01:11:39,240
Speaker 5: as a food source as in garbage and those things,

1395
01:11:39,280 --> 01:11:40,160
Speaker 5: then that's a problem.

1396
01:11:40,240 --> 01:11:42,479
Speaker 1: Also, I don't have an opinion on as meaning I

1397
01:11:42,560 --> 01:11:46,160
Speaker 1: see both sides of it. But it surprises me that

1398
01:11:46,880 --> 01:11:49,800
Speaker 1: you could have a It surprises me that you could

1399
01:11:49,840 --> 01:11:54,439
Speaker 1: have a grizzly kill a person, and the decision might

1400
01:11:54,479 --> 01:11:56,360
Speaker 1: be made to let the bear walk or is that

1401
01:11:56,560 --> 01:11:58,360
Speaker 1: not really the right way of expressing it.

1402
01:11:59,040 --> 01:12:03,160
Speaker 5: And that's yeah. If there's a lot of factors in that,

1403
01:12:03,479 --> 01:12:06,280
Speaker 5: and like I said, remoteness and behavior one of them.

1404
01:12:07,200 --> 01:12:09,320
Speaker 5: There's also whether or not we think we can get

1405
01:12:09,520 --> 01:12:10,439
Speaker 5: the right bear.

1406
01:12:10,600 --> 01:12:14,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, that I imagine is a big issue, right, Like, Yeah,

1407
01:12:14,120 --> 01:12:18,000
Speaker 1: time has gone by in move in our experience.

1408
01:12:18,280 --> 01:12:20,160
Speaker 5: You know, I don't know what the percentage is, but

1409
01:12:20,320 --> 01:12:24,640
Speaker 5: ninety plus percentage of these incidents that we have with

1410
01:12:24,800 --> 01:12:28,719
Speaker 5: predatory animals that attack a human, it's defensive in nature.

1411
01:12:29,080 --> 01:12:32,600
Speaker 5: The animal is scared to death, hits the person in

1412
01:12:32,680 --> 01:12:34,840
Speaker 5: a defensive modus. I don't know what this is. It's

1413
01:12:34,840 --> 01:12:37,320
Speaker 5: a threat to me. I'm gonna smack it around and

1414
01:12:37,439 --> 01:12:39,920
Speaker 5: let it know I'm tougher than it, and then it

1415
01:12:40,080 --> 01:12:43,160
Speaker 5: runs for the hills. It's really rare that we go

1416
01:12:43,280 --> 01:12:45,280
Speaker 5: into one of these attack singes and the bear or

1417
01:12:45,320 --> 01:12:49,639
Speaker 5: whatever it is is still there. And so the likelihood

1418
01:12:49,720 --> 01:12:52,680
Speaker 5: that we get the right bear it's pretty low. You know.

1419
01:12:52,800 --> 01:12:55,439
Speaker 5: We'll do aerial searches, we'll make sure it's gone from

1420
01:12:55,479 --> 01:12:58,639
Speaker 5: the area. We'll do ground searches. Sometimes we use houndsmen,

1421
01:12:59,000 --> 01:13:01,960
Speaker 5: we set traps all those type of things. It doesn't

1422
01:13:02,000 --> 01:13:04,479
Speaker 5: mean we're going to euthanize it, but we're making sure

1423
01:13:04,520 --> 01:13:05,560
Speaker 5: the bear has moved on.

1424
01:13:05,800 --> 01:13:08,960
Speaker 1: And but rolling through the helicopter and going into a

1425
01:13:08,960 --> 01:13:10,559
Speaker 1: bunch of bears down isn't like you're.

1426
01:13:10,560 --> 01:13:13,280
Speaker 5: No, we don't want to and we don't we wouldn't

1427
01:13:13,280 --> 01:13:16,040
Speaker 5: want to euthanize you know, ten bears trying to get one.

1428
01:13:16,200 --> 01:13:21,240
Speaker 3: That's that's that's how like as far as for the

1429
01:13:21,280 --> 01:13:25,120
Speaker 3: amount of months grizzlies are out walking around whatever, April

1430
01:13:25,240 --> 01:13:30,439
Speaker 3: to December, say, like, is there just a huge I

1431
01:13:30,560 --> 01:13:34,240
Speaker 3: imagine when September hits, it's just like not many incidents

1432
01:13:34,280 --> 01:13:38,719
Speaker 3: and then spike and then it falls off, like yeah

1433
01:13:38,760 --> 01:13:39,960
Speaker 3: in November or something.

1434
01:13:40,479 --> 01:13:44,479
Speaker 5: Definitely, the fall seems to be the highest density of attacks.

1435
01:13:44,600 --> 01:13:46,240
Speaker 5: And a lot of that has to do with just

1436
01:13:46,400 --> 01:13:49,599
Speaker 5: hunters being in the field, being in places that there

1437
01:13:49,720 --> 01:13:51,640
Speaker 5: isn't a lot of people.

1438
01:13:51,640 --> 01:13:54,240
Speaker 3: You know, and fresh meat laying around.

1439
01:13:54,680 --> 01:13:57,479
Speaker 5: That's part of it too. But you know, people displace

1440
01:13:57,600 --> 01:14:00,640
Speaker 5: wild animals. So you know, in our area, go to

1441
01:14:00,800 --> 01:14:04,640
Speaker 5: any trail that is really popular, Lava Lake, Highlight, all

1442
01:14:04,680 --> 01:14:07,400
Speaker 5: those places, not a whole lot of wildlife around. That's

1443
01:14:07,439 --> 01:14:10,960
Speaker 5: because the amount of people. Mountain bikers, dog walkers, cars,

1444
01:14:11,120 --> 01:14:15,080
Speaker 5: all those things displace animals, and so where do hunters go.

1445
01:14:15,479 --> 01:14:17,840
Speaker 5: They go where the higher density of animals are going

1446
01:14:17,920 --> 01:14:21,480
Speaker 5: to be. Higher density of ungulates means higher density of predators.

1447
01:14:21,720 --> 01:14:24,879
Speaker 5: There's less people displacing them. And what kind of behavior

1448
01:14:25,000 --> 01:14:27,439
Speaker 5: they're displaying. They're not making a lot of noise.

1449
01:14:28,040 --> 01:14:30,760
Speaker 3: You make a noise like a cow exactly.

1450
01:14:31,200 --> 01:14:33,200
Speaker 1: And you try to keep the wind to your face.

1451
01:14:33,320 --> 01:14:36,519
Speaker 12: And so, I mean, it just makes sense that you

1452
01:14:36,800 --> 01:14:39,639
Speaker 12: increase that type of human behavior out in the field,

1453
01:14:39,760 --> 01:14:42,320
Speaker 12: you're going to increase the interactions with wildlife.

1454
01:14:44,920 --> 01:14:48,960
Speaker 1: So you know, we in terms of wildlife, that's the objective. Well,

1455
01:14:49,840 --> 01:14:52,200
Speaker 1: like you're trying to increase the interactions with the wildlife.

1456
01:14:52,280 --> 01:14:56,000
Speaker 5: Bozeman Montana is prime grizzybear habitat. But how many grizzlebear

1457
01:14:56,040 --> 01:14:59,479
Speaker 5: attacks do we have on mainstream Boson none? Because of

1458
01:14:59,560 --> 01:15:02,479
Speaker 5: the high insity of humans that are displacing grizzly bears.

1459
01:15:02,520 --> 01:15:05,280
Speaker 5: They just aren't around this area because we get in

1460
01:15:05,360 --> 01:15:07,240
Speaker 5: their way. They're afraid of us in a way, and

1461
01:15:09,160 --> 01:15:11,080
Speaker 5: it's just just not a good place for them to be.

1462
01:15:11,240 --> 01:15:14,680
Speaker 1: And even if they even if they did want to

1463
01:15:14,800 --> 01:15:17,439
Speaker 1: be the likelihood that they're going to get in trouble

1464
01:15:17,920 --> 01:15:21,599
Speaker 1: and die from getting hit by a car, from getting

1465
01:15:21,600 --> 01:15:25,000
Speaker 1: in trouble, from getting into garbage, whatever. It's like if

1466
01:15:25,040 --> 01:15:27,040
Speaker 1: they wanted to be, it's still tough for them. Yeah.

1467
01:15:27,080 --> 01:15:31,280
Speaker 6: Absolutely, But we have some that I don't know if

1468
01:15:31,280 --> 01:15:35,240
Speaker 6: they live full time, but they certainly skirt with with

1469
01:15:35,840 --> 01:15:36,840
Speaker 6: town boundaries.

1470
01:15:37,520 --> 01:15:40,920
Speaker 5: And particularly as this town grows, you know that that

1471
01:15:41,200 --> 01:15:45,720
Speaker 5: urban to wild land's interface grows or gets more complicated.

1472
01:15:45,880 --> 01:15:48,439
Speaker 1: Yeah. Do there's a house. It's like they backpack the

1473
01:15:48,520 --> 01:15:52,479
Speaker 1: parts that house that you can see from anywhere in town,

1474
01:15:53,520 --> 01:15:55,120
Speaker 1: halfway up the bridgers.

1475
01:15:57,680 --> 01:15:59,200
Speaker 9: Is that the one that reflects the sun off?

1476
01:15:59,400 --> 01:16:02,479
Speaker 1: Oh no, he's man, He said to his realer, Like,

1477
01:16:02,520 --> 01:16:05,320
Speaker 1: I want you to find the most conspicuous spot you

1478
01:16:05,400 --> 01:16:07,600
Speaker 1: can find in all of town. Then I'd like you

1479
01:16:07,640 --> 01:16:10,840
Speaker 1: to find the most conspicuous material, and I want you

1480
01:16:10,960 --> 01:16:13,639
Speaker 1: to backpack all that material up to that spot.

1481
01:16:14,040 --> 01:16:16,879
Speaker 3: Helicopter so I can build a radars and the builders

1482
01:16:16,960 --> 01:16:17,720
Speaker 3: like you.

1483
01:16:18,120 --> 01:16:19,800
Speaker 8: Looking at a lot of people, and you're gonna have

1484
01:16:19,840 --> 01:16:21,520
Speaker 8: a good view of the airfield.

1485
01:16:21,600 --> 01:16:22,040
Speaker 5: Is that all right?

1486
01:16:22,280 --> 01:16:24,479
Speaker 4: What is the perfect Is it a house?

1487
01:16:26,800 --> 01:16:30,599
Speaker 10: We heard three forks and the sun's hitting something. Yeah, something,

1488
01:16:30,960 --> 01:16:34,719
Speaker 10: what you're talking about, there's something halfway up the bridges.

1489
01:16:34,800 --> 01:16:38,080
Speaker 9: It's like glowing. It's not a rapt.

1490
01:16:41,560 --> 01:16:46,439
Speaker 8: Along with people displacing wildlife, there's plenty of folks that

1491
01:16:46,479 --> 01:16:52,519
Speaker 8: are moving into that urban wildlife interface too, that make

1492
01:16:52,720 --> 01:16:54,360
Speaker 8: an effort to attract wildlife.

1493
01:16:54,880 --> 01:16:59,840
Speaker 5: Sure, uh, you know, wildlife is one of Montana's greatest resources.

1494
01:17:00,080 --> 01:17:01,920
Speaker 5: So a lot of people visit here and move here

1495
01:17:02,040 --> 01:17:06,879
Speaker 5: because of those wild resources. I did, Yeah, exactly exactly.

1496
01:17:07,080 --> 01:17:07,959
Speaker 1: You know, it's something.

1497
01:17:11,320 --> 01:17:13,479
Speaker 8: Lazy about it, just lazy about it.

1498
01:17:13,800 --> 01:17:16,840
Speaker 5: And so the I can understand the appeal of the

1499
01:17:16,960 --> 01:17:20,760
Speaker 5: thought of buying a little mountain place and being able

1500
01:17:20,760 --> 01:17:23,000
Speaker 5: to look out your window and see bears and elk

1501
01:17:23,080 --> 01:17:26,320
Speaker 5: frolicking in your yard. And to Yanni's point, there's there

1502
01:17:26,479 --> 01:17:30,519
Speaker 5: there's still plenty of wildlife around this town and the

1503
01:17:30,640 --> 01:17:35,720
Speaker 5: towns that are closer to higher animal density. So think

1504
01:17:35,720 --> 01:17:40,080
Speaker 5: about towns closer to Yellowstone National Park West Yellowstone Gardener.

1505
01:17:40,160 --> 01:17:43,479
Speaker 5: They deal with grizz of bears going down main Street

1506
01:17:43,560 --> 01:17:46,599
Speaker 5: all the time. In those towns, less people, but also

1507
01:17:46,720 --> 01:17:53,120
Speaker 5: they're in the heart of high density wildlife areas. That

1508
01:17:53,520 --> 01:17:58,519
Speaker 5: change that's occurring around here definitely is increasing conflict as

1509
01:17:58,600 --> 01:18:01,080
Speaker 5: we are seeing more people move into the area, more

1510
01:18:01,160 --> 01:18:05,960
Speaker 5: people displace wildlife, more habitat being developed, and more people

1511
01:18:06,080 --> 01:18:10,280
Speaker 5: moving into that interface zone. You're seeing definitely conflicts on

1512
01:18:10,360 --> 01:18:14,080
Speaker 5: the rise and more bears. Sure, yeah, yeah for doing great.

1513
01:18:14,479 --> 01:18:16,960
Speaker 3: Like you said, you've been a game more than for

1514
01:18:17,080 --> 01:18:20,000
Speaker 3: twelve years and you hear all the time like, oh,

1515
01:18:20,120 --> 01:18:23,360
Speaker 3: every year it's more grizzly attacks. Like is do you

1516
01:18:23,479 --> 01:18:25,720
Speaker 3: feel that's the case or is it just like there's

1517
01:18:25,800 --> 01:18:29,000
Speaker 3: more exposure to the attacks and the media, or is

1518
01:18:29,080 --> 01:18:32,240
Speaker 3: it like actually an increasing number of attacks?

1519
01:18:32,280 --> 01:18:32,400
Speaker 7: You know.

1520
01:18:33,000 --> 01:18:36,400
Speaker 5: So my understanding from talking to our bear specialists and

1521
01:18:36,760 --> 01:18:42,240
Speaker 5: seeing their data is that the attack rate, if you

1522
01:18:42,400 --> 01:18:45,240
Speaker 5: compare it to population at the same time of the

1523
01:18:45,360 --> 01:18:50,280
Speaker 5: animal and population of humans, it's remaining steady. So the

1524
01:18:50,439 --> 01:18:53,880
Speaker 5: frequency is going up, but so is the bear population

1525
01:18:54,120 --> 01:18:58,519
Speaker 5: and human population. So it's not like it's just spiking.

1526
01:18:58,200 --> 01:19:02,200
Speaker 1: Crazy as have changed their habits. No, it's just that

1527
01:19:02,280 --> 01:19:04,200
Speaker 1: there's more of them and there's more people for them

1528
01:19:04,240 --> 01:19:04,679
Speaker 1: to attack.

1529
01:19:04,800 --> 01:19:07,200
Speaker 5: Correct, And why do people move to this area.

1530
01:19:07,840 --> 01:19:08,720
Speaker 4: Get attacked by a bear?

1531
01:19:08,960 --> 01:19:13,360
Speaker 5: Well to go outside, you know, I mean it's crazy

1532
01:19:13,400 --> 01:19:15,639
Speaker 5: the amount of people that are citizens of this state

1533
01:19:15,760 --> 01:19:18,800
Speaker 5: that either hunt and fish or just recorate period out

1534
01:19:18,840 --> 01:19:20,960
Speaker 5: in the woods. I mean, we see it around this area.

1535
01:19:21,360 --> 01:19:26,040
Speaker 5: Explosion is huge. People typically vacation here, not for the

1536
01:19:26,160 --> 01:19:29,160
Speaker 5: cultural amenities of the town, which has amazing ones, but

1537
01:19:29,320 --> 01:19:31,439
Speaker 5: it's because they want to see the outdoors and the

1538
01:19:32,040 --> 01:19:33,080
Speaker 5: wild resources we have.

1539
01:19:33,320 --> 01:19:34,679
Speaker 1: So let's move to Ottery.

1540
01:19:34,880 --> 01:19:35,080
Speaker 9: Wow.

1541
01:19:35,320 --> 01:19:38,080
Speaker 6: Oh, come on, while we're on that's what I want

1542
01:19:38,120 --> 01:19:40,640
Speaker 6: to hear. It's going to be good, I promise. But

1543
01:19:40,800 --> 01:19:42,400
Speaker 6: this follow up question I think is good to While

1544
01:19:42,439 --> 01:19:45,200
Speaker 6: we're on grizzly bears, there seems to be in our

1545
01:19:45,320 --> 01:19:48,759
Speaker 6: community in attitude. Every time you see a post about

1546
01:19:48,960 --> 01:19:52,519
Speaker 6: another grizzly bear attack, it's like, it's because we need

1547
01:19:52,840 --> 01:19:55,519
Speaker 6: a gold day grizzly bear season, and if we start

1548
01:19:55,600 --> 01:19:58,960
Speaker 6: shooting the bears, it'll cure all of our grizzly bear problems.

1549
01:20:00,040 --> 01:20:02,080
Speaker 6: Your attitude opinion about.

1550
01:20:01,840 --> 01:20:03,040
Speaker 1: That, you're asking me?

1551
01:20:07,240 --> 01:20:07,400
Speaker 7: Uh?

1552
01:20:11,120 --> 01:20:14,880
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean Montana has a plan where we would

1553
01:20:15,160 --> 01:20:20,679
Speaker 5: like to retain or take back grizzly bear management kind of. Yeah,

1554
01:20:20,760 --> 01:20:21,120
Speaker 5: go for it.

1555
01:20:21,479 --> 01:20:22,920
Speaker 4: The FEDS would like you to do it.

1556
01:20:23,000 --> 01:20:25,240
Speaker 5: Oh, there's there's an agreement there for sure.

1557
01:20:25,400 --> 01:20:26,920
Speaker 4: No, I'm just wanting people to this I'm not.

1558
01:20:27,000 --> 01:20:30,040
Speaker 1: I'm not speaking as I'm not speaking as anam pancrats.

1559
01:20:30,040 --> 01:20:32,160
Speaker 1: I'm not speaking as warden pancrats. This is the point

1560
01:20:32,160 --> 01:20:35,720
Speaker 1: I like to clarify to people. All the time, the

1561
01:20:36,800 --> 01:20:40,200
Speaker 1: the federal agency that is in charge of taking care

1562
01:20:40,280 --> 01:20:43,200
Speaker 1: of grizzly bears, the US Fish and Wildlife Service, they

1563
01:20:43,320 --> 01:20:46,959
Speaker 1: are the ones. They are the ones that propose delisting.

1564
01:20:47,080 --> 01:20:53,320
Speaker 1: This gets lost all the time. They say, of all

1565
01:20:53,439 --> 01:20:57,880
Speaker 1: the danger species they administer, they say, when it's time.

1566
01:20:58,920 --> 01:20:59,879
Speaker 4: They have said.

1567
01:21:00,400 --> 01:21:03,320
Speaker 1: Multiple times for thirteen years or it's been, they've been,

1568
01:21:03,360 --> 01:21:06,559
Speaker 1: they hit, they have said, hey, heads up, it's time.

1569
01:21:08,200 --> 01:21:12,200
Speaker 1: It's it's them saying this, So go on. I just

1570
01:21:12,320 --> 01:21:14,720
Speaker 1: want to make sure that listeners at home understand this

1571
01:21:14,920 --> 01:21:17,040
Speaker 1: isn't someone going and being like, give me that, give

1572
01:21:17,120 --> 01:21:20,080
Speaker 1: me that. It's like the US Fish and Wildlife Service

1573
01:21:20,120 --> 01:21:24,000
Speaker 1: has said it is time now for us to hand

1574
01:21:24,080 --> 01:21:28,280
Speaker 1: over management of the grizzly bear. Yeah, in this and

1575
01:21:28,320 --> 01:21:32,720
Speaker 1: then outside litigants block them from doing what they're trying

1576
01:21:32,720 --> 01:21:37,719
Speaker 1: to do. This is not a tug of war, right now,

1577
01:21:37,840 --> 01:21:40,360
Speaker 1: go back to I just want to make sure people

1578
01:21:40,400 --> 01:21:42,759
Speaker 1: understand this because this is not widely understood.

1579
01:21:43,640 --> 01:21:43,800
Speaker 9: Well.

1580
01:21:43,840 --> 01:21:48,120
Speaker 5: Thinking about Yanni's question. You know, fish, Wildlife and parks

1581
01:21:48,160 --> 01:21:51,960
Speaker 5: and other state agencies utilize hunting as a management tool.

1582
01:21:52,000 --> 01:21:54,720
Speaker 5: That's real critical to the North American model and to

1583
01:21:55,200 --> 01:21:58,439
Speaker 5: the way that we manage populations here, and so not

1584
01:21:58,600 --> 01:22:02,000
Speaker 5: having that tool for grizzy bear, it's just one less

1585
01:22:02,320 --> 01:22:08,080
Speaker 5: option for us to use. The future is going to

1586
01:22:08,120 --> 01:22:11,720
Speaker 5: be really slow on any grizzly bear state managed grizzly bear.

1587
01:22:12,080 --> 01:22:15,799
Speaker 5: You're not going to see wide open general tag hunting

1588
01:22:15,880 --> 01:22:19,600
Speaker 5: on grizzly bears anytime probably in our lifetime.

1589
01:22:20,160 --> 01:22:23,840
Speaker 1: Anytime, I mean less like also, and everybody dies. That's

1590
01:22:24,240 --> 01:22:25,960
Speaker 1: so most people die.

1591
01:22:26,360 --> 01:22:30,640
Speaker 5: Maybe you know, if a season ever occurred, it's going

1592
01:22:30,680 --> 01:22:35,040
Speaker 5: to be extremely limited. And and for those who are saying,

1593
01:22:36,200 --> 01:22:38,000
Speaker 5: you know, we need to put the fear of man

1594
01:22:38,160 --> 01:22:42,200
Speaker 5: back into these bears, that's very unlikely that that is

1595
01:22:42,240 --> 01:22:45,439
Speaker 5: going to result from one to three super tags out there.

1596
01:22:46,680 --> 01:22:49,680
Speaker 3: It just just isn't you know, can you explain, like

1597
01:22:50,520 --> 01:22:52,760
Speaker 3: people may not know what super tags are and the

1598
01:22:52,800 --> 01:22:55,240
Speaker 3: fact that if there was a hunting season, there's only

1599
01:22:55,280 --> 01:22:56,880
Speaker 3: ever going to be a few bears.

1600
01:22:56,560 --> 01:22:59,479
Speaker 5: That would yeah, more than likely. You know, if the

1601
01:22:59,640 --> 01:23:04,400
Speaker 5: state gains back management, it's gonna be limited. Any sort

1602
01:23:04,439 --> 01:23:07,000
Speaker 5: of hunt isn't gonna happen right away, and if it,

1603
01:23:07,240 --> 01:23:09,040
Speaker 5: if and when it ever does, it's gonna be very

1604
01:23:09,120 --> 01:23:12,160
Speaker 5: limited to a handful of tags, one or two statewide.

1605
01:23:12,680 --> 01:23:15,320
Speaker 1: Might guess, Yeah, I'd like to remind people what we

1606
01:23:15,560 --> 01:23:16,920
Speaker 1: kind of got a glimpse of how it would go

1607
01:23:17,840 --> 01:23:22,280
Speaker 1: some years ago when delisting came close. Wyoming was gonna

1608
01:23:22,280 --> 01:23:24,439
Speaker 1: do twenty. They were going to issue twenty tags, and

1609
01:23:24,520 --> 01:23:27,640
Speaker 1: they have the bulk of the you know the way

1610
01:23:27,720 --> 01:23:29,559
Speaker 1: it's cut up, They have the bulk of the bears

1611
01:23:29,600 --> 01:23:32,519
Speaker 1: in the Greater Yellstone ecosystem, which was gonna get delisted.

1612
01:23:34,479 --> 01:23:36,360
Speaker 1: Had they done the Northern Continental divide, it might have

1613
01:23:36,360 --> 01:23:38,280
Speaker 1: played out differently. But the way they were looking at

1614
01:23:38,360 --> 01:23:42,679
Speaker 1: delisting the Greater Yellstone area, Idaho was gonna do a tag.

1615
01:23:44,680 --> 01:23:46,040
Speaker 1: I think it's one. Was it one?

1616
01:23:46,160 --> 01:23:49,559
Speaker 8: I applied for that because I was I was a resident.

1617
01:23:49,720 --> 01:23:51,960
Speaker 8: It was only open to residents in the state Idaho.

1618
01:23:52,280 --> 01:23:54,480
Speaker 3: Yeah, Montana abstained.

1619
01:23:54,840 --> 01:23:58,759
Speaker 1: Montana was gonna sit it out. Wyoming was gonna do twenty.

1620
01:23:59,439 --> 01:24:03,040
Speaker 1: So on in Wyholming one in Idaho zero. Now that

1621
01:24:03,240 --> 01:24:05,719
Speaker 1: wasn't northern kindall like it might have played out differently

1622
01:24:05,760 --> 01:24:08,200
Speaker 1: because northern continentill divide. They're the states sitting on over

1623
01:24:08,240 --> 01:24:10,800
Speaker 1: one thousand there. But just to give you a sense

1624
01:24:10,880 --> 01:24:12,640
Speaker 1: of how limited it was going to be, it was

1625
01:24:12,640 --> 01:24:14,120
Speaker 1: going to be so limited that it was going to

1626
01:24:14,160 --> 01:24:17,439
Speaker 1: be none. Yeah that was just first year. Yeah, that

1627
01:24:17,560 --> 01:24:19,519
Speaker 1: was first year, and that was at that time, not

1628
01:24:19,640 --> 01:24:21,040
Speaker 1: this time. Yeah, the plan.

1629
01:24:21,200 --> 01:24:23,280
Speaker 5: You know, I'm not part of writing the plan. I'll

1630
01:24:23,360 --> 01:24:26,720
Speaker 5: help implement it and such, but it's going to be

1631
01:24:26,840 --> 01:24:30,599
Speaker 5: very limited. The big thing is making sure the state

1632
01:24:31,320 --> 01:24:33,400
Speaker 5: and the citizens of the state have tools to deal

1633
01:24:33,439 --> 01:24:37,800
Speaker 5: with conflict, tools to deal with management decisions. So, you know,

1634
01:24:37,960 --> 01:24:41,519
Speaker 5: grizzy bear populations are expanding, they're moving into areas they

1635
01:24:41,600 --> 01:24:43,800
Speaker 5: occupied a long time ago, but they haven't been for

1636
01:24:43,880 --> 01:24:48,479
Speaker 5: one hundred plus years, and so so towns, landowners, ag

1637
01:24:48,640 --> 01:24:51,200
Speaker 5: producers are dealing with a new conflict they're not used

1638
01:24:51,240 --> 01:24:53,639
Speaker 5: to dealing with. And so what they want is tools.

1639
01:24:53,720 --> 01:24:57,760
Speaker 5: They want answers from the state management agency, from the

1640
01:24:57,800 --> 01:25:00,120
Speaker 5: local bear specialists, from the game or what can I

1641
01:25:00,240 --> 01:25:03,320
Speaker 5: do when this animal is in my front yard and

1642
01:25:03,320 --> 01:25:04,840
Speaker 5: I'm just trying to take the kids to school. What

1643
01:25:04,960 --> 01:25:07,560
Speaker 5: can I do when this animal is killing my livestock?

1644
01:25:08,040 --> 01:25:10,720
Speaker 5: You know all those type of things, how do we

1645
01:25:10,840 --> 01:25:15,160
Speaker 5: respond to it? And the agency's opinion always has been

1646
01:25:15,280 --> 01:25:19,080
Speaker 5: through state management is the best way to achieve those

1647
01:25:19,160 --> 01:25:21,000
Speaker 5: goals or to be able to have the most amount

1648
01:25:21,000 --> 01:25:23,360
Speaker 5: of tools in the toolbox to deal with those conflicts.

1649
01:25:24,400 --> 01:25:28,120
Speaker 8: Well, I think, you know, it's very interesting and I

1650
01:25:28,400 --> 01:25:31,479
Speaker 8: haven't looked at the exact numbers in a while, but

1651
01:25:32,640 --> 01:25:35,720
Speaker 8: if you look at like the black bear population and

1652
01:25:35,880 --> 01:25:40,800
Speaker 8: we have a black bear season and the increase year

1653
01:25:41,000 --> 01:25:47,679
Speaker 8: over year of conflict black bears that are are killed

1654
01:25:47,760 --> 01:25:53,559
Speaker 8: by not hunters, right by state or federal employees at

1655
01:25:54,240 --> 01:25:59,880
Speaker 8: one agency or another, that's a very telling trend, very

1656
01:26:00,080 --> 01:26:01,920
Speaker 8: telling number to me. Right.

1657
01:26:02,040 --> 01:26:05,520
Speaker 4: It's like I meaning, here, you have spring season, fall season.

1658
01:26:06,160 --> 01:26:07,200
Speaker 8: You can run them with dogs.

1659
01:26:07,960 --> 01:26:10,920
Speaker 4: It still got bears coming through the green door.

1660
01:26:11,160 --> 01:26:11,400
Speaker 9: Yep.

1661
01:26:11,560 --> 01:26:13,920
Speaker 5: It's a primary tool for us. So when our game

1662
01:26:14,000 --> 01:26:18,040
Speaker 5: wardens are responding or our bear specialists responding to a

1663
01:26:18,840 --> 01:26:22,320
Speaker 5: black bear conflict, for instance, around this area and it's

1664
01:26:22,720 --> 01:26:25,200
Speaker 5: you know, out of city limits in an area that

1665
01:26:25,479 --> 01:26:28,320
Speaker 5: hunting is currently open or will be soon or something

1666
01:26:28,360 --> 01:26:32,280
Speaker 5: in the future, and and it's safe, that's one of

1667
01:26:32,360 --> 01:26:35,160
Speaker 5: the first options or first solutions they present to the

1668
01:26:35,240 --> 01:26:38,519
Speaker 5: homeownered landowners, Can we get a bear hunter out here,

1669
01:26:38,920 --> 01:26:41,439
Speaker 5: because we would much rather a hunter harvest that than

1670
01:26:41,520 --> 01:26:42,679
Speaker 5: we harvest it ourselves.

1671
01:26:42,760 --> 01:26:45,120
Speaker 8: And as for a lot of different reasons, right.

1672
01:26:45,200 --> 01:26:48,000
Speaker 5: Many different reasons. Yeah, absolutely, I never get any phone calls.

1673
01:26:50,800 --> 01:26:54,479
Speaker 6: Well that I spoke to yesterday said the absolute worst

1674
01:26:54,560 --> 01:26:56,600
Speaker 6: part of his job, and he believes many of his

1675
01:26:57,120 --> 01:26:59,920
Speaker 6: colleagues feel the same way, is to have to euthanize animals.

1676
01:27:00,080 --> 01:27:10,320
Speaker 9: Absolutely. You know.

1677
01:27:10,439 --> 01:27:14,920
Speaker 5: The first time I killed an animal on duty, and

1678
01:27:16,040 --> 01:27:18,679
Speaker 5: the first actual time was accidental. So I was doing

1679
01:27:19,080 --> 01:27:22,320
Speaker 5: wetland work over in Minnesota, and I was driving a

1680
01:27:22,400 --> 01:27:25,519
Speaker 5: side by side across the prairie to do some some

1681
01:27:25,720 --> 01:27:29,320
Speaker 5: restoration work, and I drove over a nesting duck. Just

1682
01:27:29,560 --> 01:27:32,040
Speaker 5: didn't see it there, drove over it and upset me

1683
01:27:32,200 --> 01:27:34,640
Speaker 5: so much because here I am out here trying to

1684
01:27:36,000 --> 01:27:38,560
Speaker 5: manage these save them, whatever you want to call it,

1685
01:27:38,840 --> 01:27:41,240
Speaker 5: you know, and I just drove over one and it

1686
01:27:41,400 --> 01:27:44,120
Speaker 5: was just this just moment for me, of just And

1687
01:27:44,240 --> 01:27:46,479
Speaker 5: I was with a with a couple of high school

1688
01:27:46,560 --> 01:27:48,160
Speaker 5: kids and a crew who are working with me, and

1689
01:27:48,240 --> 01:27:50,439
Speaker 5: I had them stand up in the four side by

1690
01:27:50,560 --> 01:27:53,040
Speaker 5: side and their job now was to scout for ducks,

1691
01:27:53,120 --> 01:27:56,160
Speaker 5: we don't run over anymore because it's just totally disheartening

1692
01:27:56,240 --> 01:27:58,640
Speaker 5: for me. And it's the same thing here when we

1693
01:27:58,760 --> 01:28:01,400
Speaker 5: have to euthanize one, a lot of empathy for that animal.

1694
01:28:01,479 --> 01:28:03,360
Speaker 5: We put a lot of effort, a lot of blood, sweat,

1695
01:28:03,400 --> 01:28:07,000
Speaker 5: and tears into too managing these species, caring for them,

1696
01:28:07,160 --> 01:28:10,760
Speaker 5: ensuring they're here for a long time. The last thing

1697
01:28:10,840 --> 01:28:13,160
Speaker 5: we want to do is killing. There's times we have

1698
01:28:13,400 --> 01:28:17,040
Speaker 5: to because of the conflict, but usually that conflict's preventable.

1699
01:28:17,479 --> 01:28:19,920
Speaker 5: Usually that conflict has a lot to do with humans.

1700
01:28:19,960 --> 01:28:23,120
Speaker 5: Sometimes it doesn't. There's surprising counters like we talked about

1701
01:28:23,160 --> 01:28:25,799
Speaker 5: out in the woods, where you just humans and bears

1702
01:28:26,080 --> 01:28:29,400
Speaker 5: or humans and whatever animal occupied the same space and

1703
01:28:29,479 --> 01:28:32,759
Speaker 5: there's a fight over that space. It's really nobody's fault

1704
01:28:32,880 --> 01:28:36,320
Speaker 5: at that point. The bears defending it space and maybe

1705
01:28:36,400 --> 01:28:39,719
Speaker 5: you're defending it's your space. And those conflicts will always

1706
01:28:39,760 --> 01:28:43,920
Speaker 5: be there. But the preventable ones of keeping attractants clean,

1707
01:28:44,160 --> 01:28:47,920
Speaker 5: you know, not having fruiting trees in your yard, not

1708
01:28:48,120 --> 01:28:53,280
Speaker 5: having bird feeders, keeping your trash locked up until just

1709
01:28:53,360 --> 01:28:56,840
Speaker 5: before trash pickup occurs, all those type of things are

1710
01:28:56,920 --> 01:29:00,840
Speaker 5: huge that will prevent a lot of these management removals

1711
01:29:00,920 --> 01:29:02,320
Speaker 5: of species like bears.

1712
01:29:03,000 --> 01:29:05,280
Speaker 8: Yeah, when I was working with the Grizzly team in Idaho,

1713
01:29:05,320 --> 01:29:07,280
Speaker 8: which is like one of the coolest things I've ever

1714
01:29:07,400 --> 01:29:11,240
Speaker 8: done and will probably ever do. To Yanni's point, like

1715
01:29:11,360 --> 01:29:18,320
Speaker 8: he had this story about there's a bear getting very

1716
01:29:18,400 --> 01:29:23,280
Speaker 8: familiar with the particular campground. They had gone in into

1717
01:29:23,280 --> 01:29:26,960
Speaker 8: the campground, very popular one outside of Island Park, Idaho,

1718
01:29:27,320 --> 01:29:31,000
Speaker 8: and which is part of the g YE and had

1719
01:29:31,200 --> 01:29:35,639
Speaker 8: gone to every single campsite, said hey, there's a grizzly bear.

1720
01:29:35,720 --> 01:29:39,120
Speaker 8: You guys got to keep your trash locked up. This,

1721
01:29:39,600 --> 01:29:44,840
Speaker 8: you know, very sophisticated established campground with bear proof containers

1722
01:29:45,720 --> 01:29:49,600
Speaker 8: for storage and then bear proof garbage cans for disposal,

1723
01:29:50,320 --> 01:29:59,080
Speaker 8: And one particular campsite left all their watermelon out, very

1724
01:29:59,160 --> 01:30:06,599
Speaker 8: identifiable food. The bear came in got that was basically

1725
01:30:06,720 --> 01:30:09,000
Speaker 8: camped out on the edge of the campground.

1726
01:30:09,760 --> 01:30:10,400
Speaker 6: These two.

1727
01:30:11,720 --> 01:30:17,960
Speaker 8: Folks, who are absolute grizzly bear professionals and very invested

1728
01:30:18,200 --> 01:30:23,600
Speaker 8: in in grizzly bears, like, we had to shoot that

1729
01:30:23,680 --> 01:30:27,240
Speaker 8: grizzly bear. And when I took it upon myself to

1730
01:30:27,280 --> 01:30:30,759
Speaker 8: then inform the campers at that campsite that the reason

1731
01:30:30,840 --> 01:30:33,320
Speaker 8: that we had to shoot that grizzly bear was because

1732
01:30:33,400 --> 01:30:38,120
Speaker 8: they couldn't bring it upon themselves to take their watermelon

1733
01:30:39,000 --> 01:30:42,160
Speaker 8: thirty five yards to the garbage and put it away.

1734
01:30:42,640 --> 01:30:49,400
Speaker 8: They informed me that we had ruined their family vacation, right,

1735
01:30:49,520 --> 01:30:53,880
Speaker 8: And this is like it's the animal, really, I mean,

1736
01:30:53,920 --> 01:30:56,880
Speaker 8: it is the animal in North America. Like it is

1737
01:30:56,920 --> 01:31:00,760
Speaker 8: the thing that's referenced. It's a species that everybody's in

1738
01:31:00,920 --> 01:31:04,240
Speaker 8: awe of in one way or another. We're just at

1739
01:31:04,280 --> 01:31:07,439
Speaker 8: the talking back with the football players last night. I

1740
01:31:07,520 --> 01:31:08,880
Speaker 8: was talking with a bunch of them, you know. I

1741
01:31:09,000 --> 01:31:12,560
Speaker 8: was like, you know, there's still a large population of

1742
01:31:12,680 --> 01:31:18,160
Speaker 8: hunters in Montana, Wyoming, Idaho that they plan their hunts

1743
01:31:19,240 --> 01:31:23,880
Speaker 8: way around grizzly bears, Like, oh, this is a known

1744
01:31:23,960 --> 01:31:27,040
Speaker 8: grizzly bear area, We're not going to attempt to hunt there,

1745
01:31:27,200 --> 01:31:29,519
Speaker 8: fish there, or even apply for tags there.

1746
01:31:29,920 --> 01:31:30,160
Speaker 1: Good.

1747
01:31:30,360 --> 01:31:35,800
Speaker 8: And I'm like, we're you know, but there's plenty of

1748
01:31:35,800 --> 01:31:38,880
Speaker 8: people who don't think that way too. So that's why

1749
01:31:39,280 --> 01:31:41,599
Speaker 8: we were talking about displacing animals. Like a lot more

1750
01:31:41,640 --> 01:31:44,920
Speaker 8: people recreate in in bear territory, but.

1751
01:31:45,240 --> 01:31:50,519
Speaker 1: Let's move to dotter tags. So have an otter tack

1752
01:31:51,479 --> 01:31:54,040
Speaker 1: and You're like, this isn't going to become a normal problem,

1753
01:31:54,920 --> 01:31:56,960
Speaker 1: but it gets a lot of public attention.

1754
01:31:58,200 --> 01:32:01,880
Speaker 5: It does, and it's it's rare but more common than

1755
01:32:01,920 --> 01:32:06,120
Speaker 5: you think, right in a way. You know, the statistics

1756
01:32:06,240 --> 01:32:09,760
Speaker 5: change every year. But when I look at the reports

1757
01:32:09,800 --> 01:32:13,879
Speaker 5: of human animal attacks, the top three species in southwest

1758
01:32:13,920 --> 01:32:17,320
Speaker 5: Montana for just incidents reported to my staff, grizzly bears

1759
01:32:17,400 --> 01:32:20,040
Speaker 5: number one. What's number two?

1760
01:32:20,120 --> 01:32:20,599
Speaker 1: Black bears?

1761
01:32:20,640 --> 01:32:26,320
Speaker 5: Black bears, moose most is number two. Typically in most years,

1762
01:32:26,360 --> 01:32:31,160
Speaker 5: otters is number three. It doesn't mean there's dozens or

1763
01:32:31,560 --> 01:32:34,320
Speaker 5: hundreds of them, but just on average, there's a handful

1764
01:32:34,400 --> 01:32:37,400
Speaker 5: a couple every year. You know, usually usually we run

1765
01:32:37,479 --> 01:32:43,240
Speaker 5: into around ten grizzly incidents in this area. Depends changes

1766
01:32:43,280 --> 01:32:45,680
Speaker 5: every year that causes some sort of human injury or

1767
01:32:45,760 --> 01:32:48,519
Speaker 5: conflict or something like that. You know, a handful three

1768
01:32:48,640 --> 01:32:51,640
Speaker 5: four moose incidents where a moose stomps on somebody or

1769
01:32:51,720 --> 01:32:54,719
Speaker 5: kick somebody, and then you know one to three otter

1770
01:32:54,800 --> 01:32:56,080
Speaker 5: attacks probably every year.

1771
01:32:56,280 --> 01:32:59,400
Speaker 1: I know Anchorage has some had some real odd conflict,

1772
01:32:59,680 --> 01:33:00,479
Speaker 1: like some ters.

1773
01:33:00,400 --> 01:33:01,200
Speaker 4: Took over at park.

1774
01:33:01,439 --> 01:33:05,760
Speaker 6: Yeah, you know, and there was those hoters that were

1775
01:33:05,840 --> 01:33:11,000
Speaker 6: taking over that surf break somewhere on the West coast California.

1776
01:33:11,320 --> 01:33:11,599
Speaker 1: Sorry.

1777
01:33:11,960 --> 01:33:15,799
Speaker 8: Yeah, so they're getting they're like getting up on people's

1778
01:33:15,840 --> 01:33:16,840
Speaker 8: surfboards and.

1779
01:33:19,160 --> 01:33:21,639
Speaker 9: Oh yeah, man, hotter gang violence these days.

1780
01:33:21,760 --> 01:33:25,120
Speaker 4: Just yeah, So you did a lot of interviews about then.

1781
01:33:26,040 --> 01:33:28,240
Speaker 3: Oh that's all that happened.

1782
01:33:28,360 --> 01:33:31,120
Speaker 5: Yeah, the emergency alert systems.

1783
01:33:31,200 --> 01:33:32,000
Speaker 9: Of course it happened.

1784
01:33:32,680 --> 01:33:35,200
Speaker 5: Hey, I left my cell phone in the truck and

1785
01:33:35,280 --> 01:33:36,760
Speaker 5: it was going to be a distraction in here.

1786
01:33:38,280 --> 01:33:39,040
Speaker 9: Well they really did that.

1787
01:33:39,720 --> 01:33:41,759
Speaker 1: I remember reading that being that seems like a weird idea.

1788
01:33:43,520 --> 01:33:47,519
Speaker 3: It works, Yeah, that should be the noise when an

1789
01:33:47,520 --> 01:33:48,320
Speaker 3: otter's coming out.

1790
01:33:49,800 --> 01:33:52,400
Speaker 13: So there was an otter attack, and you got it

1791
01:33:52,520 --> 01:33:55,760
Speaker 13: was became a national news story, the last one, did

1792
01:33:56,080 --> 01:33:58,479
Speaker 13: you know, Uh, that's the first time I've seen an

1793
01:33:58,520 --> 01:34:01,000
Speaker 13: otter attack for US come national news.

1794
01:34:01,120 --> 01:34:05,000
Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean interviews with the Washington Post, La Times,

1795
01:34:05,080 --> 01:34:07,439
Speaker 5: It did an interview with Fox News Live and such.

1796
01:34:07,800 --> 01:34:09,000
Speaker 5: It was a pretty severe one.

1797
01:34:09,160 --> 01:34:10,280
Speaker 4: So what caught hold?

1798
01:34:10,920 --> 01:34:13,000
Speaker 1: Why did that grab the national attention the way it did?

1799
01:34:13,240 --> 01:34:15,599
Speaker 5: I think because of what you what you were kind

1800
01:34:15,640 --> 01:34:18,479
Speaker 5: of getting at is is the perceived rarity of the

1801
01:34:18,560 --> 01:34:21,960
Speaker 5: event and then the severity of the injuries. And you know,

1802
01:34:22,320 --> 01:34:26,000
Speaker 5: so I have an aunt who believes it's a conspiracy

1803
01:34:26,120 --> 01:34:29,240
Speaker 5: against otters. She believes that that we're making up all

1804
01:34:29,320 --> 01:34:32,120
Speaker 5: these otter attacks because how could such a cute, cuddly

1805
01:34:32,200 --> 01:34:33,519
Speaker 5: animal do such.

1806
01:34:33,760 --> 01:34:35,160
Speaker 4: She thinks you're trying to villainize.

1807
01:34:35,160 --> 01:34:37,599
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, for sure. And when I send her articles

1808
01:34:37,760 --> 01:34:41,320
Speaker 5: or a time we post a warning at a phishing

1809
01:34:41,360 --> 01:34:44,280
Speaker 5: exisite about an aggressive hotter, she just thinks it's all alive,

1810
01:34:44,360 --> 01:34:47,040
Speaker 5: because there's no way that Honors could ever do such.

1811
01:34:47,080 --> 01:34:50,519
Speaker 1: Well, what do you have to gain from villainizings is

1812
01:34:50,520 --> 01:34:51,639
Speaker 1: what I'm trying to figure out.

1813
01:34:52,560 --> 01:34:56,280
Speaker 8: Well, this is how I would do it. Okay, it

1814
01:34:56,400 --> 01:35:00,120
Speaker 8: is so dangerous that you can't have people floating and

1815
01:35:00,200 --> 01:35:05,240
Speaker 8: inner tubes or doing non angling activities like that. In fact,

1816
01:35:05,320 --> 01:35:08,680
Speaker 8: they can't use the boat ramps. They can't stand in

1817
01:35:08,760 --> 01:35:10,519
Speaker 8: the middle of the boat ramp while you're trying to

1818
01:35:10,560 --> 01:35:11,240
Speaker 8: back raft in.

1819
01:35:12,640 --> 01:35:14,880
Speaker 4: He's going to scare everybody away and then have the

1820
01:35:15,000 --> 01:35:16,160
Speaker 4: river all to himself.

1821
01:35:17,320 --> 01:35:21,680
Speaker 5: So, like we talked about humans displaced wildlife, and you know,

1822
01:35:21,800 --> 01:35:24,080
Speaker 5: we have a section of a river, the Lower Madison

1823
01:35:24,160 --> 01:35:28,160
Speaker 5: here that has a tuber hatch every every every summer when.

1824
01:35:28,200 --> 01:35:31,360
Speaker 1: Somewhere because that was not even sort of a thing.

1825
01:35:32,520 --> 01:35:35,880
Speaker 5: It word of mouth, you know, companies coming in and

1826
01:35:36,040 --> 01:35:38,760
Speaker 5: cater into it, big business or like that was.

1827
01:35:39,040 --> 01:35:40,640
Speaker 4: I mean, I always try to tell my kids when

1828
01:35:40,640 --> 01:35:46,000
Speaker 4: I'm driving along, I'm like, this just was not a thing.

1829
01:35:46,280 --> 01:35:48,879
Speaker 6: I don't but didn't you do that growing up in Michigan.

1830
01:35:49,800 --> 01:35:50,200
Speaker 1: Explain it?

1831
01:35:50,280 --> 01:35:52,920
Speaker 4: It's big in the East. So yeah, so I was recent.

1832
01:35:52,960 --> 01:35:54,639
Speaker 1: I just had this conversation my kids. I'm like, there's

1833
01:35:54,640 --> 01:35:59,400
Speaker 1: certain things that like when I moved to Montana nineteen

1834
01:35:59,439 --> 01:36:00,639
Speaker 1: ninety six, there.

1835
01:36:00,600 --> 01:36:02,360
Speaker 4: Were certain things that were not part of the culture

1836
01:36:03,320 --> 01:36:03,960
Speaker 4: ice fishing.

1837
01:36:04,680 --> 01:36:08,640
Speaker 1: They were woefully behind in ice fishing technology from a

1838
01:36:08,640 --> 01:36:10,960
Speaker 1: Midwest perspective, was like, they just don't know about it,

1839
01:36:11,520 --> 01:36:15,680
Speaker 1: and they did not know about tubin. They did not know.

1840
01:36:16,439 --> 01:36:19,960
Speaker 1: It had not occurred to Montanans that you would float

1841
01:36:20,000 --> 01:36:21,000
Speaker 1: down a river in a tube.

1842
01:36:21,840 --> 01:36:24,320
Speaker 4: But where I grew up, you'd skip school to do that.

1843
01:36:25,040 --> 01:36:26,679
Speaker 4: I mean it was baked into the culture.

1844
01:36:27,240 --> 01:36:30,920
Speaker 1: Tube yep. And you could rig your.

1845
01:36:30,840 --> 01:36:32,400
Speaker 4: Cooler in.

1846
01:36:35,000 --> 01:36:38,280
Speaker 3: The rivers, like a lot of the rivers kind of

1847
01:36:38,400 --> 01:36:41,519
Speaker 3: off limits to tubin, right, You'd just be doing pinball down.

1848
01:36:41,400 --> 01:36:45,519
Speaker 4: White water, drag your ass done and ever and.

1849
01:36:47,439 --> 01:36:50,280
Speaker 3: Do you get to ten miles and never hit a rock.

1850
01:36:50,320 --> 01:36:54,280
Speaker 5: Or the water temperatures really cold makes it uncomfortable exactly too.

1851
01:36:54,320 --> 01:36:56,560
Speaker 1: And where I grew up, I mean in August, and

1852
01:36:56,680 --> 01:36:58,120
Speaker 1: it's just like being in your bathtub.

1853
01:36:59,000 --> 01:37:01,840
Speaker 5: Well, the reason I bring it up as high concentration

1854
01:37:02,000 --> 01:37:05,120
Speaker 5: of tubers on that section of the river, which means

1855
01:37:05,280 --> 01:37:09,439
Speaker 5: low density of river otters, which means very few incidents

1856
01:37:09,479 --> 01:37:12,320
Speaker 5: of attacks. And where we see the attacks happen is

1857
01:37:12,400 --> 01:37:16,479
Speaker 5: when tubers decide the Lower Madison's too full and they

1858
01:37:16,560 --> 01:37:19,880
Speaker 5: go to other remote strections of rivers to get away

1859
01:37:19,920 --> 01:37:23,840
Speaker 5: from people. Less density of humans, higher chance that they

1860
01:37:24,280 --> 01:37:26,320
Speaker 5: that they might have an encounter with with an hoter.

1861
01:37:26,800 --> 01:37:30,200
Speaker 4: What do you think the otter's deal is again, I think.

1862
01:37:30,080 --> 01:37:32,240
Speaker 5: It's very similar to what we talked about before. Human

1863
01:37:32,400 --> 01:37:35,040
Speaker 5: and wildlife occupy trying to occupy the same space.

1864
01:37:35,200 --> 01:37:37,639
Speaker 4: Is there always pops involved?

1865
01:37:37,960 --> 01:37:39,880
Speaker 5: There can be, but it could be a food source,

1866
01:37:39,960 --> 01:37:41,960
Speaker 5: it could be you know, a den, it could be

1867
01:37:42,080 --> 01:37:47,120
Speaker 5: just a territorial attack. But it's it's humans and wildlife

1868
01:37:47,160 --> 01:37:50,040
Speaker 5: occupying the same space and the wildlife is saying this

1869
01:37:50,160 --> 01:37:52,640
Speaker 5: is my this is my area, Get out of it.

1870
01:37:52,960 --> 01:37:56,360
Speaker 1: And what moves does an otter use? What are they

1871
01:37:56,479 --> 01:37:57,759
Speaker 1: doing when they're.

1872
01:37:59,120 --> 01:38:00,360
Speaker 5: You know, when they're attacking.

1873
01:38:00,439 --> 01:38:02,679
Speaker 4: Yeah, like what is their sort of attack pattern?

1874
01:38:02,920 --> 01:38:06,120
Speaker 5: Well, I've never seen one happen myself. I've only helped

1875
01:38:06,120 --> 01:38:12,240
Speaker 5: clean up the mess afterwards. And thinking of otters are

1876
01:38:12,840 --> 01:38:16,919
Speaker 5: their predators? You know they got sharp claws, sharp teeth.

1877
01:38:18,520 --> 01:38:19,040
Speaker 8: Of the river.

1878
01:38:19,160 --> 01:38:20,839
Speaker 6: Well absolutely, listen.

1879
01:38:20,760 --> 01:38:21,720
Speaker 4: I would never ever.

1880
01:38:22,200 --> 01:38:24,000
Speaker 1: I was like, I believe that you don't want to

1881
01:38:24,040 --> 01:38:29,560
Speaker 1: fight any animal that has no legs, Like, you're not

1882
01:38:29,560 --> 01:38:32,000
Speaker 1: gonna grab grab my leg? Now, are you're doing any good?

1883
01:38:32,120 --> 01:38:36,160
Speaker 1: Like yeah, he's like no leg, holding him by the

1884
01:38:36,200 --> 01:38:38,200
Speaker 1: leg and lifting him up, he's just gonna be like

1885
01:38:38,479 --> 01:38:39,759
Speaker 1: mauling your arm and face.

1886
01:38:39,880 --> 01:38:42,479
Speaker 5: And how vulnerable are we in the water. That's not

1887
01:38:42,760 --> 01:38:43,519
Speaker 5: what our bodies.

1888
01:38:43,880 --> 01:38:47,320
Speaker 3: Someone's sitting in is not impressive. And someone like standing

1889
01:38:47,439 --> 01:38:49,040
Speaker 3: up walking down the trail, you know.

1890
01:38:49,439 --> 01:38:50,840
Speaker 6: I mean, do you remember when we saw the to

1891
01:38:51,640 --> 01:38:58,280
Speaker 6: see otters mating in Southeast Alaska on that trip? Oh

1892
01:38:58,400 --> 01:39:03,680
Speaker 6: never mind, you saw them just doing their thing. You

1893
01:39:03,760 --> 01:39:05,280
Speaker 6: definitely don't want to get in a scrap with them,

1894
01:39:05,360 --> 01:39:06,080
Speaker 6: right because they're.

1895
01:39:06,120 --> 01:39:06,799
Speaker 1: Just the agility.

1896
01:39:07,200 --> 01:39:10,280
Speaker 10: Yeah, yeah, oh we saw this year we saw like

1897
01:39:10,439 --> 01:39:15,400
Speaker 10: thirty sea otters all together. It's like just just thinking

1898
01:39:15,400 --> 01:39:17,000
Speaker 10: about it's like if those things want to come over

1899
01:39:17,040 --> 01:39:19,160
Speaker 10: here and tussle, like thirty.

1900
01:39:18,880 --> 01:39:19,960
Speaker 5: Of them them.

1901
01:39:20,080 --> 01:39:23,880
Speaker 4: No, but they're primarily biting, correct.

1902
01:39:23,960 --> 01:39:27,439
Speaker 5: So the last one, you know, it just chance encounter.

1903
01:39:27,800 --> 01:39:30,559
Speaker 5: The ladies that were floating down the river weren't doing

1904
01:39:30,600 --> 01:39:33,880
Speaker 5: anything wrong. They're just floating down the river. They occupied

1905
01:39:33,920 --> 01:39:38,280
Speaker 5: the outer space. They you know from their description one

1906
01:39:38,400 --> 01:39:41,280
Speaker 5: to two otters. They're not sure, but the way they

1907
01:39:41,320 --> 01:39:43,760
Speaker 5: were attacking multiple people that made them think there was

1908
01:39:43,800 --> 01:39:47,879
Speaker 5: more than one otter. Typically they're attacking the tube itself,

1909
01:39:48,640 --> 01:39:52,160
Speaker 5: or legs and buttocks that are suspended in the water

1910
01:39:52,240 --> 01:39:55,840
Speaker 5: when you're in a tube. In this particular incident, one

1911
01:39:55,880 --> 01:39:58,000
Speaker 5: of the females fell off the tube or jumped off

1912
01:39:58,040 --> 01:40:00,640
Speaker 5: the tube, and I she was swimming, the came up

1913
01:40:00,720 --> 01:40:02,760
Speaker 5: and attacked her face. Now that her face is down

1914
01:40:02,800 --> 01:40:04,800
Speaker 5: on the water, and that's what caused the severity of

1915
01:40:04,880 --> 01:40:05,439
Speaker 5: the injuries.

1916
01:40:05,600 --> 01:40:07,160
Speaker 1: And uh, while swimming.

1917
01:40:07,360 --> 01:40:09,320
Speaker 5: Yeah, and she she got to the other side of

1918
01:40:09,360 --> 01:40:12,200
Speaker 5: the river. Her two friends got to the she she

1919
01:40:12,320 --> 01:40:13,920
Speaker 5: went to the remote side of the river where the

1920
01:40:13,960 --> 01:40:17,559
Speaker 5: two friends went to the highwayside. They called nine one one.

1921
01:40:17,680 --> 01:40:21,040
Speaker 5: A highway patrolman showed up first. Uh, this highway patrolman

1922
01:40:21,160 --> 01:40:23,400
Speaker 5: jumped in the river, swam the length of the river

1923
01:40:23,520 --> 01:40:26,679
Speaker 5: with aggressive otters in the river, and provided first aid

1924
01:40:26,800 --> 01:40:29,240
Speaker 5: to the severely injured gallon the other side while the

1925
01:40:29,320 --> 01:40:32,280
Speaker 5: helicopter was called. And we you know, we were the

1926
01:40:32,360 --> 01:40:34,439
Speaker 5: last ones on scene. By the time we got their

1927
01:40:34,560 --> 01:40:37,840
Speaker 5: deputy sheriffs, the highway patrolman and EMS staff had kind

1928
01:40:37,840 --> 01:40:40,800
Speaker 5: of taken care of this situation and provided the life

1929
01:40:40,840 --> 01:40:43,120
Speaker 5: saving attention.

1930
01:40:43,760 --> 01:40:45,320
Speaker 3: Was there any concern with rabies?

1931
01:40:45,600 --> 01:40:48,600
Speaker 5: There there can be depending on the behavior. You know,

1932
01:40:49,400 --> 01:40:52,320
Speaker 5: there has been incidents where we've attempted to trap and

1933
01:40:52,439 --> 01:40:52,800
Speaker 5: test them.

1934
01:40:52,920 --> 01:40:54,080
Speaker 1: We did not in this one.

1935
01:40:54,240 --> 01:40:56,400
Speaker 8: I was going to ask, is there an expectation to

1936
01:40:56,600 --> 01:41:01,160
Speaker 8: treat that aggressive river otter like you would aggressive grizzly bear?

1937
01:41:01,720 --> 01:41:03,120
Speaker 8: I want that trapped or.

1938
01:41:03,479 --> 01:41:06,760
Speaker 5: Well, again, it depends on behavior. If we if it's

1939
01:41:07,240 --> 01:41:11,719
Speaker 5: you know, if it's abnormal behavior, then yes we're gonna

1940
01:41:11,840 --> 01:41:15,080
Speaker 5: we're gonna probably take a hands on management action against it.

1941
01:41:16,520 --> 01:41:20,920
Speaker 5: But if it's normal behavior, which wild animals like otters

1942
01:41:21,000 --> 01:41:23,880
Speaker 5: protecting their territory is normal, we may not.

1943
01:41:24,240 --> 01:41:26,760
Speaker 1: So did you guys pull a DNA sample off that otter? No,

1944
01:41:27,040 --> 01:41:28,800
Speaker 1: we did not on that one, So you can't even

1945
01:41:28,800 --> 01:41:30,120
Speaker 1: compare them in the lineup later.

1946
01:41:30,640 --> 01:41:33,800
Speaker 8: There are so many good T shirt designs going through

1947
01:41:33,840 --> 01:41:34,439
Speaker 8: my head right now.

1948
01:41:34,720 --> 01:41:37,320
Speaker 6: Already sent an email to hunt I'm ahead of you.

1949
01:41:37,640 --> 01:41:39,320
Speaker 4: Can we move on from otters?

1950
01:41:39,439 --> 01:41:39,920
Speaker 1: You go for it?

1951
01:41:40,880 --> 01:41:46,800
Speaker 4: Tell me about uh, tell me about when when when

1952
01:41:46,880 --> 01:41:47,519
Speaker 4: you catch?

1953
01:41:47,680 --> 01:41:52,439
Speaker 1: When that wild game meet has made its way into

1954
01:41:52,479 --> 01:41:56,800
Speaker 1: the commercial market. Sure, what walk me through how you

1955
01:41:56,920 --> 01:42:00,480
Speaker 1: see that and what how does that happen and what's

1956
01:42:00,479 --> 01:42:01,280
Speaker 1: that wind up looking like?

1957
01:42:01,400 --> 01:42:04,599
Speaker 5: I think it's important to talk about why that's illegal first,

1958
01:42:05,000 --> 01:42:07,040
Speaker 5: or a little bit about the history. You know, you

1959
01:42:07,120 --> 01:42:10,800
Speaker 5: guys have talked a lot about market hunting and the

1960
01:42:11,000 --> 01:42:13,920
Speaker 5: history of that and what it did to wildlife in

1961
01:42:14,000 --> 01:42:17,400
Speaker 5: North America. I think that's one piece of the puzzle,

1962
01:42:17,640 --> 01:42:20,639
Speaker 5: but it's an important piece. You know, as the West

1963
01:42:20,800 --> 01:42:24,800
Speaker 5: was being settled, agriculture wasn't heavily established in the West,

1964
01:42:25,120 --> 01:42:28,519
Speaker 5: and so you have people coming out here for to

1965
01:42:28,640 --> 01:42:33,400
Speaker 5: harvest fur bears and other wild game for exploration, for

1966
01:42:33,560 --> 01:42:36,040
Speaker 5: settlement as part of the Homestead Act, and also for

1967
01:42:36,240 --> 01:42:40,080
Speaker 5: gold extraction and exploration all those type of things, and

1968
01:42:40,240 --> 01:42:44,880
Speaker 5: agriculture kind of was a step behind, you know, and

1969
01:42:45,040 --> 01:42:48,240
Speaker 5: so there's a lot of people moving into there a

1970
01:42:48,320 --> 01:42:51,040
Speaker 5: lot more people than there was before. You know, obviously

1971
01:42:51,160 --> 01:42:54,240
Speaker 5: there was indigenous tribes here living in a sustainable nature

1972
01:42:54,439 --> 01:42:58,200
Speaker 5: manner on the landscape. But as the Western culture moved west,

1973
01:42:59,840 --> 01:43:03,000
Speaker 5: you know, there a food source was needed for all

1974
01:43:03,120 --> 01:43:07,679
Speaker 5: these people, and wildlife was easily identified in the beginning

1975
01:43:07,880 --> 01:43:12,960
Speaker 5: as it was abundant as a resource, and for different reasons,

1976
01:43:13,040 --> 01:43:15,680
Speaker 5: some of it was harvested through market hunting, some of

1977
01:43:15,720 --> 01:43:20,599
Speaker 5: it was just just subsistence. You know, a huge amount

1978
01:43:20,640 --> 01:43:23,759
Speaker 5: of subsistence hunting occurred in Montana and other Western states

1979
01:43:24,320 --> 01:43:28,120
Speaker 5: as gold panters and trappers and others were establishing themselves

1980
01:43:28,200 --> 01:43:33,519
Speaker 5: out here or agriculture was getting established. That led to

1981
01:43:33,600 --> 01:43:36,880
Speaker 5: a severe decimation of wildlife. You know, you're talking by

1982
01:43:36,920 --> 01:43:40,920
Speaker 5: the late eighteen hundreds, there was hardly hardly anything left

1983
01:43:41,000 --> 01:43:43,000
Speaker 5: in Montana. Elks.

1984
01:43:43,200 --> 01:43:47,400
Speaker 1: Interesting irony is a I pointed this out on this

1985
01:43:47,479 --> 01:43:51,840
Speaker 1: project we're working on about commercial hunters, is that the

1986
01:43:51,880 --> 01:43:57,840
Speaker 1: Boone and Crocket Club takes its name from two commercial hunters. Yeah,

1987
01:43:58,720 --> 01:44:00,960
Speaker 1: but the first order of business for the Boon and

1988
01:44:01,040 --> 01:44:07,080
Speaker 1: Crockett Club was going after the commercial sale of gaminget Sure.

1989
01:44:07,360 --> 01:44:09,759
Speaker 5: It's like a weird, absolutely sort.

1990
01:44:09,560 --> 01:44:11,320
Speaker 1: Of conflict built within the name.

1991
01:44:11,520 --> 01:44:15,200
Speaker 5: I imagine two commercial hunters had a good perspective. I

1992
01:44:15,280 --> 01:44:19,360
Speaker 5: mean they saw that their industry or livelihood was dying,

1993
01:44:20,080 --> 01:44:23,320
Speaker 5: you know, as just game became more scarce.

1994
01:44:24,400 --> 01:44:27,639
Speaker 8: Well, it's definitely like the story for commercial waterfowl hunters

1995
01:44:27,680 --> 01:44:29,920
Speaker 8: were the ones who were like, do you know that

1996
01:44:30,000 --> 01:44:31,120
Speaker 8: there's no birds left?

1997
01:44:31,400 --> 01:44:31,519
Speaker 5: Oh?

1998
01:44:31,560 --> 01:44:33,000
Speaker 4: They pointed that out right.

1999
01:44:33,439 --> 01:44:33,679
Speaker 1: Yeah.

2000
01:44:34,560 --> 01:44:39,479
Speaker 8: But I think also it is a livelihood lifestyle thing too,

2001
01:44:39,600 --> 01:44:44,439
Speaker 8: where it's like we've been living this life for so long,

2002
01:44:45,880 --> 01:44:47,680
Speaker 8: you know, it's like we got to figure out how

2003
01:44:47,720 --> 01:44:50,400
Speaker 8: to make sure that it sticks around, because I can't imagine,

2004
01:44:51,920 --> 01:44:53,960
Speaker 8: you know, going back to school and getting a desk

2005
01:44:54,080 --> 01:44:57,280
Speaker 8: job after running my punt gun every night for the

2006
01:44:57,400 --> 01:44:58,120
Speaker 8: last five years.

2007
01:44:58,320 --> 01:45:02,880
Speaker 5: Do you think about the the first Western settlers to

2008
01:45:02,960 --> 01:45:06,920
Speaker 5: come to Montana and just the abundance that was here,

2009
01:45:07,560 --> 01:45:11,200
Speaker 5: you know. I back in college took a class where

2010
01:45:11,240 --> 01:45:14,200
Speaker 5: we just read the loosen Clerk Journals for a whole semester,

2011
01:45:15,360 --> 01:45:18,640
Speaker 5: every single page, and I was really stuck by a

2012
01:45:18,760 --> 01:45:23,320
Speaker 5: description at Pompey's Pillar east of Billings on the Yellowstone River,

2013
01:45:23,439 --> 01:45:26,439
Speaker 5: where they described standing on that pillar and seeing the

2014
01:45:26,520 --> 01:45:31,040
Speaker 5: abundance of herds of elk, buffalo, and wolves just just

2015
01:45:31,160 --> 01:45:33,360
Speaker 5: surrounded by them as they were looking out on the

2016
01:45:33,560 --> 01:45:38,040
Speaker 5: short grass prairie that surrounded that river valley. You can

2017
01:45:38,080 --> 01:45:41,599
Speaker 5: go and visit that site now, and that day's journal

2018
01:45:41,720 --> 01:45:45,080
Speaker 5: from I think July of eighteen o five, eighteen oh

2019
01:45:45,160 --> 01:45:48,800
Speaker 5: six somewhere around there is etched on Pompey's pillar. And

2020
01:45:48,840 --> 01:45:51,160
Speaker 5: when you read that and then look around and see

2021
01:45:51,200 --> 01:45:53,880
Speaker 5: the change in the landscape, you're not gonna see any elk,

2022
01:45:54,000 --> 01:45:55,680
Speaker 5: You're not going to see any wolves for sure, and

2023
01:45:55,800 --> 01:45:59,840
Speaker 5: you won't see buffalo unless they're ranch buffalo. The landscape

2024
01:46:00,080 --> 01:46:06,000
Speaker 5: dramatically changed quickly in one hundred years, and our agency Fish,

2025
01:46:06,040 --> 01:46:10,160
Speaker 5: Wildlife and parks and the statutes and rules that govern it,

2026
01:46:10,840 --> 01:46:13,800
Speaker 5: and that also led to this great resurgence of wildlife.

2027
01:46:16,280 --> 01:46:20,360
Speaker 5: We're in reaction to basically that loss of wildlife and

2028
01:46:20,520 --> 01:46:22,439
Speaker 5: set a lot of groundwork for the work that we

2029
01:46:22,560 --> 01:46:29,080
Speaker 5: do now to include investigating commercial harvest of wildlife and such.

2030
01:46:31,400 --> 01:46:36,280
Speaker 5: You know, a quick history of wildlife law. You know,

2031
01:46:36,560 --> 01:46:39,720
Speaker 5: eighteen late eighteen sixties is when the first kind of

2032
01:46:39,760 --> 01:46:43,559
Speaker 5: wildlife law was enacted in Montana. He had early nineteen

2033
01:46:43,640 --> 01:46:47,200
Speaker 5: hundreds of the Lacy Act, the Pittman Robertson Act and such.

2034
01:46:47,800 --> 01:46:51,920
Speaker 5: But the history of conservation law and regulation in Montana

2035
01:46:52,040 --> 01:46:58,840
Speaker 5: starts with decimation, then laws created in response, and then

2036
01:46:58,960 --> 01:47:01,120
Speaker 5: enforcement of those law. So if you think about the

2037
01:47:01,240 --> 01:47:03,840
Speaker 5: history of the agency, it started with one game warden

2038
01:47:04,520 --> 01:47:07,280
Speaker 5: and some fishing game laws, and then slowly more game

2039
01:47:07,360 --> 01:47:10,360
Speaker 5: wardens were added. Game wardeners who patrolled an area of

2040
01:47:10,439 --> 01:47:15,760
Speaker 5: like eighteen thousand square miles alone by themselves, but there

2041
01:47:15,840 --> 01:47:18,560
Speaker 5: was no wildlife staff. There was no management. You know,

2042
01:47:19,040 --> 01:47:23,040
Speaker 5: the local university MSU didn't start their wildlife management program

2043
01:47:23,160 --> 01:47:26,000
Speaker 5: until the nineteen thirties, So you had this span of

2044
01:47:26,200 --> 01:47:29,040
Speaker 5: thirty years where the way we managed wildlife was just

2045
01:47:29,240 --> 01:47:32,960
Speaker 5: law and enforcement, and then without a Leopold and others,

2046
01:47:33,040 --> 01:47:37,479
Speaker 5: it switched to more of a management habitat restoration. And

2047
01:47:37,720 --> 01:47:40,759
Speaker 5: through that, all this trial and air, those seven pillars

2048
01:47:40,840 --> 01:47:44,320
Speaker 5: of tenants of the North American model were developed, not

2049
01:47:44,520 --> 01:47:47,440
Speaker 5: because one person wrote them down like the ten Commandments,

2050
01:47:47,560 --> 01:47:49,800
Speaker 5: you know, up on high on a piece of slavistone,

2051
01:47:49,880 --> 01:47:52,920
Speaker 5: but through trial and air figuring out what worked. And

2052
01:47:53,040 --> 01:47:57,919
Speaker 5: one of those tenants is elimination of unregulated commercial harvest

2053
01:47:58,120 --> 01:48:03,160
Speaker 5: commercial markets. And why I say unregulated is there's still

2054
01:48:03,200 --> 01:48:08,720
Speaker 5: commercial markets for public resources right. There's there's you know,

2055
01:48:09,080 --> 01:48:12,639
Speaker 5: ore and oil extraction that occurs on public lands. There's

2056
01:48:12,680 --> 01:48:15,760
Speaker 5: timber harvest, and there's also a huge fisheries industry in

2057
01:48:15,880 --> 01:48:18,800
Speaker 5: many states that has a commercial aspect to it.

2058
01:48:19,000 --> 01:48:21,320
Speaker 1: Can sell wild mushrooms, you can sell elk antlers, you

2059
01:48:21,360 --> 01:48:22,360
Speaker 1: can sell kiowa.

2060
01:48:22,080 --> 01:48:26,200
Speaker 5: Hid There still is a role firehood. Yeah, exactly, exactly.

2061
01:48:26,280 --> 01:48:29,080
Speaker 5: There's there's all sorts of public resources that still can

2062
01:48:29,200 --> 01:48:33,840
Speaker 5: be extracted commercially and sold commercially. But there's there's resources

2063
01:48:33,880 --> 01:48:38,320
Speaker 5: that we've identified that can't sustain a commercial market, and

2064
01:48:38,960 --> 01:48:41,479
Speaker 5: large wildlife ungulates and such as one of them that

2065
01:48:41,560 --> 01:48:45,080
Speaker 5: it's pretty universal. You know, there's there's game farms that

2066
01:48:45,160 --> 01:48:48,040
Speaker 5: have developed to meet that demand of people who don't hunt,

2067
01:48:48,120 --> 01:48:50,240
Speaker 5: that do want to eat elk and buffalo and other

2068
01:48:50,320 --> 01:48:52,719
Speaker 5: things that that they can't go out and hunt themselves.

2069
01:48:52,800 --> 01:48:56,960
Speaker 5: But for wild resources, that elimination of commercial markets was

2070
01:48:57,080 --> 01:49:02,599
Speaker 5: really key to allowing the restoration to occur. I don't

2071
01:49:02,640 --> 01:49:04,720
Speaker 5: know what the future holds. Maybe we get to a

2072
01:49:04,800 --> 01:49:10,080
Speaker 5: point where hunting participation is so low and wildlife populations

2073
01:49:10,080 --> 01:49:13,000
Speaker 5: are so abundant, you could see commercial markets come back

2074
01:49:13,040 --> 01:49:15,280
Speaker 5: in a certain state. But right now, for where we are.

2075
01:49:15,800 --> 01:49:17,160
Speaker 5: It's just just not feasible.

2076
01:49:17,360 --> 01:49:23,320
Speaker 1: When I've tried to express this to people, like as

2077
01:49:23,400 --> 01:49:25,280
Speaker 1: many deer as we seem to have, but then you

2078
01:49:25,360 --> 01:49:28,439
Speaker 1: try to express like the frailty of deer would be

2079
01:49:28,560 --> 01:49:31,360
Speaker 1: that if every American put a deer in their freezer tomorrow,

2080
01:49:31,960 --> 01:49:36,320
Speaker 1: we'd have a a two hundred and sixty million deer deficit. Yeah.

2081
01:49:37,840 --> 01:49:40,760
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's just it's not They're not there.

2082
01:49:41,479 --> 01:49:44,600
Speaker 5: I think something really important to remember is is the

2083
01:49:44,680 --> 01:49:49,600
Speaker 5: green revolution in agriculture has helped save wildlife in a

2084
01:49:49,640 --> 01:49:53,680
Speaker 5: way because we've found other food sources. You know, one

2085
01:49:53,760 --> 01:49:56,400
Speaker 5: hundred and fifty years ago, when in Montana the primary

2086
01:49:56,479 --> 01:50:01,400
Speaker 5: food source for protein at least was wild life with

2087
01:50:01,560 --> 01:50:04,800
Speaker 5: a population, a human population, you know, a tenth or

2088
01:50:04,920 --> 01:50:09,160
Speaker 5: less of what it is now, it wasn't sustainable, totally white.

2089
01:50:09,200 --> 01:50:11,680
Speaker 1: They ate them. Yeah, you're right, they ate them into oblivion.

2090
01:50:12,000 --> 01:50:14,679
Speaker 1: I mean, even just having like the gold mining towns.

2091
01:50:14,840 --> 01:50:17,960
Speaker 5: Yeah, absolutely, yeah, you know, and obviously there was there's

2092
01:50:18,040 --> 01:50:20,519
Speaker 5: other things. They were harvested for fur and things like that.

2093
01:50:20,680 --> 01:50:24,360
Speaker 5: There was predators killed just because they were viewed as pets.

2094
01:50:24,479 --> 01:50:27,120
Speaker 5: There's you know, and there's lots of other things that

2095
01:50:27,200 --> 01:50:31,599
Speaker 5: occurred from the use of pesticides, the habitat fragmentation, all

2096
01:50:31,640 --> 01:50:35,920
Speaker 5: those type of things to you know, the extraction of

2097
01:50:36,000 --> 01:50:38,800
Speaker 5: resources and the way it was done that changed habitats

2098
01:50:38,840 --> 01:50:43,040
Speaker 5: and healthy ecosystems. But a huge part of that impact

2099
01:50:43,280 --> 01:50:49,400
Speaker 5: was was commercial markets for meat or just people harvesting

2100
01:50:49,479 --> 01:50:53,680
Speaker 5: meat for food. You think about how poor, particularly the

2101
01:50:53,800 --> 01:50:56,800
Speaker 5: state was back then. People escaping the dust bowl, the

2102
01:50:57,560 --> 01:51:03,080
Speaker 5: Great Depression, you know, huge sections of drought again, agriculture

2103
01:51:03,200 --> 01:51:06,520
Speaker 5: markets not established. Another thing to think about is transportation.

2104
01:51:07,200 --> 01:51:10,080
Speaker 5: You know, a huge reason why we have cheap food

2105
01:51:10,160 --> 01:51:12,320
Speaker 5: now or I know food prices have gone up, is

2106
01:51:13,240 --> 01:51:17,640
Speaker 5: huge if increased efficiencies in transportation and how you know,

2107
01:51:17,720 --> 01:51:19,840
Speaker 5: we don't have to grow cabbage in the Gallaton Valley

2108
01:51:19,840 --> 01:51:22,519
Speaker 5: anymore sweet peas because we can get it somewhere else where.

2109
01:51:22,560 --> 01:51:24,680
Speaker 5: They can grow it more efficiently and it's cheap to

2110
01:51:24,760 --> 01:51:28,479
Speaker 5: ship it to us. That's changed a huge amount. And

2111
01:51:28,520 --> 01:51:31,400
Speaker 5: if you think about transportation roles back then, you know,

2112
01:51:31,479 --> 01:51:33,320
Speaker 5: how long did it take you to get from Missouri

2113
01:51:33,439 --> 01:51:36,759
Speaker 5: to Bozone, Montana? You know, a whole season, a whole summer,

2114
01:51:36,760 --> 01:51:39,519
Speaker 5: and probably three of your party, your six person party

2115
01:51:39,600 --> 01:51:42,479
Speaker 5: died along the way. You know, it's the old Oregon

2116
01:51:42,560 --> 01:51:48,200
Speaker 5: Trail game we all played in grade school. All those

2117
01:51:48,280 --> 01:51:55,560
Speaker 5: things have changed to allow us to now have vibrant populations,

2118
01:51:55,640 --> 01:52:00,680
Speaker 5: sustainable populations that also have an intrinsic value. You know,

2119
01:52:00,760 --> 01:52:03,439
Speaker 5: one hundred and fifty years ago, I very few people

2120
01:52:03,520 --> 01:52:06,160
Speaker 5: probably looked at wildlife. It's just appreciating that it was

2121
01:52:06,240 --> 01:52:08,400
Speaker 5: there and the beauty of it. It was looked at

2122
01:52:08,479 --> 01:52:11,599
Speaker 5: as a commodity, as something that either could be sold,

2123
01:52:11,680 --> 01:52:14,559
Speaker 5: embartered with or something that could feed my family make

2124
01:52:14,600 --> 01:52:17,560
Speaker 5: sure I didn't starve this year. And because we have

2125
01:52:17,680 --> 01:52:21,120
Speaker 5: all these developments in Western society and human culture, from

2126
01:52:21,200 --> 01:52:25,320
Speaker 5: transportation to agriculture, we can now take that item that

2127
01:52:25,479 --> 01:52:29,120
Speaker 5: was only viewed as just value commercially, and now it

2128
01:52:29,240 --> 01:52:33,639
Speaker 5: has value for leisure or just intrinsic value that exists.

2129
01:52:34,760 --> 01:52:38,760
Speaker 5: We talked about grizzybear conflicts and such, and every time

2130
01:52:38,880 --> 01:52:43,400
Speaker 5: we remove a species, or not a species, but remove

2131
01:52:43,439 --> 01:52:46,600
Speaker 5: an animal from the population, there's people that disagree with

2132
01:52:46,720 --> 01:52:49,120
Speaker 5: that decision, and a lot of them don't live here.

2133
01:52:49,400 --> 01:52:51,280
Speaker 5: A lot of calls and emails I get are from

2134
01:52:51,320 --> 01:52:54,479
Speaker 5: people from somewhere else that are upset we killed a grizzybear.

2135
01:52:54,560 --> 01:52:57,680
Speaker 5: Mountainline that was in conflict. Those people don't view that

2136
01:52:58,200 --> 01:53:02,920
Speaker 5: animal as a commercial commodity, but they have intrinsic.

2137
01:53:02,520 --> 01:53:03,040
Speaker 1: Value to it.

2138
01:53:03,600 --> 01:53:06,560
Speaker 5: They like the idea that it exists, just to know

2139
01:53:06,840 --> 01:53:09,800
Speaker 5: that this wild animal exists in this wild, amazing place,

2140
01:53:10,760 --> 01:53:13,800
Speaker 5: and that's something new in society that I don't think

2141
01:53:13,840 --> 01:53:16,720
Speaker 5: has really been here for a while. That's that's really

2142
01:53:16,880 --> 01:53:19,320
Speaker 5: led to a lot of the foundation of where we

2143
01:53:19,400 --> 01:53:25,960
Speaker 5: are in the success of wildlife conservation. But yeah, so

2144
01:53:26,120 --> 01:53:30,519
Speaker 5: getting back to commercial markets. So in Montana is in

2145
01:53:30,680 --> 01:53:35,320
Speaker 5: most states it's illegal to sell game meat. There are

2146
01:53:35,400 --> 01:53:37,760
Speaker 5: certain parts of animal that you can you can sell

2147
01:53:37,800 --> 01:53:40,240
Speaker 5: and trade in Montana. Now the rules are different for

2148
01:53:40,360 --> 01:53:43,320
Speaker 5: every state. In Montana, you could sell the hide, you

2149
01:53:43,400 --> 01:53:46,679
Speaker 5: could sell bones, you could sell antlers, but you can't

2150
01:53:46,800 --> 01:53:50,920
Speaker 5: sell or meet so commercially. So if you had a

2151
01:53:51,280 --> 01:53:56,519
Speaker 5: had a restaurant that was advertising come eat wild game meat,

2152
01:53:58,080 --> 01:53:59,400
Speaker 5: if it's truly wild, it.

2153
01:53:59,400 --> 01:54:00,400
Speaker 1: Would be legal.

2154
01:54:00,600 --> 01:54:01,840
Speaker 4: Is it ever as overt as that.

2155
01:54:03,040 --> 01:54:07,840
Speaker 5: It depends, it can be. We've seen some restaurants that

2156
01:54:08,120 --> 01:54:14,920
Speaker 5: have public menus, so if the group of us went

2157
01:54:14,960 --> 01:54:17,120
Speaker 5: in there, they'd give us the menu that's on their website.

2158
01:54:18,479 --> 01:54:21,759
Speaker 5: And then we've seen restaurants that have a private menu.

2159
01:54:22,080 --> 01:54:22,479
Speaker 1: Is that right.

2160
01:54:23,000 --> 01:54:28,120
Speaker 5: We have restaurants that sometimes have contracted with tour companies

2161
01:54:28,200 --> 01:54:30,519
Speaker 5: and such, and they may shut down for the day.

2162
01:54:30,600 --> 01:54:32,640
Speaker 5: Maybe you go there and they're closed, but it's filled

2163
01:54:32,680 --> 01:54:34,600
Speaker 5: with a lot of people, looks like a private party

2164
01:54:34,640 --> 01:54:37,240
Speaker 5: and there's a tour bus outside. They may be eating

2165
01:54:37,360 --> 01:54:39,880
Speaker 5: on a different menu. It depends on the restaurant. Every

2166
01:54:39,960 --> 01:54:42,920
Speaker 5: restaurant's different. But we've investigated restaurant.

2167
01:54:43,760 --> 01:54:45,000
Speaker 1: Slip me one of those menus.

2168
01:54:45,920 --> 01:54:48,600
Speaker 4: I mean, I just I just like to see like

2169
01:54:48,920 --> 01:54:49,560
Speaker 4: written down.

2170
01:54:50,040 --> 01:54:54,240
Speaker 1: Sure you've seen it written down, there's give me an

2171
01:54:54,280 --> 01:54:56,080
Speaker 1: example of what you've seen. I just want to know,

2172
01:54:56,200 --> 01:54:58,560
Speaker 1: Like you don't need exact word, but give me example

2173
01:54:58,560 --> 01:55:00,760
Speaker 1: of what you've seen, like actually written down on the menu.

2174
01:55:00,960 --> 01:55:04,600
Speaker 5: Wildfish is a really popular one. So wild trout.

2175
01:55:04,560 --> 01:55:07,440
Speaker 4: Yep, Wild trout yep, Local River yep.

2176
01:55:07,680 --> 01:55:10,920
Speaker 5: Exactly exactly. And we have had cases where we have

2177
01:55:12,360 --> 01:55:15,440
Speaker 5: where where we have you know, it's a it's a

2178
01:55:15,520 --> 01:55:18,040
Speaker 5: mix and how we get and start our investigations on

2179
01:55:18,160 --> 01:55:21,480
Speaker 5: these restaurants. Some of them is somebody sees that menu

2180
01:55:21,760 --> 01:55:24,680
Speaker 5: or has offered it and reports it to us. Some

2181
01:55:24,840 --> 01:55:26,960
Speaker 5: of it's written down, some of it's verbal, you know,

2182
01:55:27,200 --> 01:55:30,560
Speaker 5: but someone gets offered a dish they know or thinks

2183
01:55:30,640 --> 01:55:33,160
Speaker 5: is illegal and they call us. We've also run into

2184
01:55:33,240 --> 01:55:37,240
Speaker 5: instances where we catch people fishing or hunting out there

2185
01:55:37,720 --> 01:55:40,280
Speaker 5: that are attached to a restaurant. They're keeping large amount

2186
01:55:40,320 --> 01:55:44,120
Speaker 5: of over limits and once we dig into it, they're

2187
01:55:44,200 --> 01:55:47,200
Speaker 5: out there providing food for that restaurant.

2188
01:55:47,480 --> 01:55:51,720
Speaker 1: Got it. Uh, this is a long time.

2189
01:55:51,600 --> 01:55:57,280
Speaker 5: Ago, hypothetically, since passed.

2190
01:55:58,600 --> 01:56:00,360
Speaker 4: Seven years ago.

2191
01:56:00,400 --> 01:56:05,120
Speaker 1: I had a friend that was approached about a was

2192
01:56:05,200 --> 01:56:11,800
Speaker 1: approached about bear, a bear paw, and they misunderstood and

2193
01:56:11,880 --> 01:56:13,960
Speaker 1: they thought they wanted so they went and had a

2194
01:56:14,080 --> 01:56:17,360
Speaker 1: old they had an old bear rug and they brought

2195
01:56:17,440 --> 01:56:21,000
Speaker 1: them a claw off an old bear rug. And the

2196
01:56:21,080 --> 01:56:22,800
Speaker 1: restaurant tour was like, no, no, no, no.

2197
01:56:22,880 --> 01:56:24,640
Speaker 4: No, that's not what I meant.

2198
01:56:25,720 --> 01:56:28,400
Speaker 3: That's like, oh my goodness, that's what I mean.

2199
01:56:29,320 --> 01:56:33,440
Speaker 5: Bear pas soup is popular and a lot of Asian cultures. Yeah,

2200
01:56:34,200 --> 01:56:38,040
Speaker 5: you know, same with gold dishes or powders or ointments

2201
01:56:38,120 --> 01:56:41,440
Speaker 5: made with gold bladders. Those are probably the two most

2202
01:56:41,720 --> 01:56:44,800
Speaker 5: popular trafficked items for bears. There's also a market for

2203
01:56:44,920 --> 01:56:48,680
Speaker 5: bear meat for sure, and there's legitimate places you can

2204
01:56:48,760 --> 01:56:51,640
Speaker 5: get bear meat you know a recent case we had

2205
01:56:51,920 --> 01:56:55,360
Speaker 5: there are well, yeah, in some states you can you

2206
01:56:55,480 --> 01:57:00,280
Speaker 5: can legitimately raise raise bears. So one case we had

2207
01:57:00,360 --> 01:57:01,480
Speaker 5: in a local restaurant.

2208
01:57:01,160 --> 01:57:04,680
Speaker 4: Again and someone's commercially raising bears in the US as.

2209
01:57:04,640 --> 01:57:06,600
Speaker 5: Far as I know, I don't remember what state this

2210
01:57:06,720 --> 01:57:08,480
Speaker 5: one was from, but we had a case that was

2211
01:57:08,560 --> 01:57:12,880
Speaker 5: referred to US where a USDA inspector or it was

2212
01:57:12,960 --> 01:57:15,800
Speaker 5: a Health and Human Services inspector went to do their

2213
01:57:15,880 --> 01:57:20,720
Speaker 5: inspection of the kitchen and found packaged meat that was

2214
01:57:20,840 --> 01:57:23,960
Speaker 5: labeled bear and reported to US. And as we digged

2215
01:57:24,000 --> 01:57:26,920
Speaker 5: around that bear meat had come from a legitimate source,

2216
01:57:26,960 --> 01:57:30,000
Speaker 5: which kind of shocked us at the time too. You know,

2217
01:57:30,080 --> 01:57:33,680
Speaker 5: in other countries there's definitely markets for it. Bare bile

2218
01:57:33,840 --> 01:57:36,760
Speaker 5: is a huge industry in some other countries, and there

2219
01:57:37,640 --> 01:57:39,800
Speaker 5: really sickening bear bile farms.

2220
01:57:39,960 --> 01:57:42,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, my kids told me about that and showed me

2221
01:57:42,440 --> 01:57:45,000
Speaker 1: a thing about it. Where does it stand right now?

2222
01:57:45,240 --> 01:57:47,680
Speaker 1: This is one of the more confusing things I found

2223
01:57:47,720 --> 01:57:54,360
Speaker 1: in terms of trying to stop the commercial market. Is

2224
01:57:54,480 --> 01:57:56,800
Speaker 1: for a while it was you'll know this better than me.

2225
01:57:56,920 --> 01:58:01,320
Speaker 1: But for a while it was that that you if

2226
01:58:01,360 --> 01:58:05,400
Speaker 1: you killed a black bear, so you legally kill black

2227
01:58:05,440 --> 01:58:07,480
Speaker 1: bear and you basically you have this like contract where

2228
01:58:07,520 --> 01:58:09,480
Speaker 1: you tag it. It's it becomes your property and it's

2229
01:58:09,560 --> 01:58:14,040
Speaker 1: transferred from to your personal possession. But you couldn't have

2230
01:58:15,760 --> 01:58:18,200
Speaker 1: You couldn't possess the gallbladder from the bear.

2231
01:58:19,560 --> 01:58:20,120
Speaker 4: Is that correct?

2232
01:58:21,320 --> 01:58:23,480
Speaker 5: Not in Montana? So you can possess it, you just

2233
01:58:23,520 --> 01:58:24,640
Speaker 5: can't commercially sell it.

2234
01:58:25,360 --> 01:58:27,080
Speaker 1: So you haven't heard it, like I feel like there's

2235
01:58:27,120 --> 01:58:31,960
Speaker 1: someplace you like you Okay, so you could you could

2236
01:58:32,080 --> 01:58:34,880
Speaker 1: have your own and do with it what you will. Correct,

2237
01:58:35,760 --> 01:58:37,160
Speaker 1: And I could give it to a buddy of mine

2238
01:58:37,200 --> 01:58:41,760
Speaker 1: if he wanted it. Okay, you cannot cannot sell it? Yeah? Yeah?

2239
01:58:42,080 --> 01:58:45,000
Speaker 3: And then I got a Montana question. It's not about bears,

2240
01:58:45,800 --> 01:58:50,520
Speaker 3: since rabbits and squirrels aren't game animals. Could I set

2241
01:58:50,600 --> 01:58:54,960
Speaker 3: up a rabbit and squirrel taco stand and not be

2242
01:58:55,040 --> 01:58:55,600
Speaker 3: breaking the whole?

2243
01:58:56,880 --> 01:58:57,440
Speaker 9: Yes, so.

2244
01:58:59,120 --> 01:59:01,680
Speaker 5: I would not have any regulatory authority over it. You

2245
01:59:01,720 --> 01:59:04,440
Speaker 5: would not from But there I imagine there are other

2246
01:59:04,520 --> 01:59:05,760
Speaker 5: agencies that do you.

2247
01:59:05,880 --> 01:59:07,360
Speaker 1: I think I think that that's when it becomes the

2248
01:59:07,480 --> 01:59:12,320
Speaker 1: USDA's big Oh yeah, because they got USDs. Is not

2249
01:59:12,400 --> 01:59:14,240
Speaker 1: because you're selling uninspected meat?

2250
01:59:15,000 --> 01:59:15,360
Speaker 3: Gotcha?

2251
01:59:16,000 --> 01:59:18,160
Speaker 9: Good idea though, what if you do get inspected?

2252
01:59:19,320 --> 01:59:19,920
Speaker 1: What will they?

2253
01:59:20,920 --> 01:59:22,600
Speaker 4: So, so let me tell you this.

2254
01:59:22,920 --> 01:59:25,760
Speaker 1: Years ago, I was going through a fact checking process

2255
01:59:25,800 --> 01:59:28,920
Speaker 1: with a magazine and I pointed out that it's illegal

2256
01:59:30,120 --> 01:59:34,120
Speaker 1: to it's illegal to sell dog meat in America. The

2257
01:59:34,200 --> 01:59:37,320
Speaker 1: fact checkers like, show me where how that where? That's true?

2258
01:59:38,920 --> 01:59:41,160
Speaker 1: And the want of beings it's only illegal in two states.

2259
01:59:42,240 --> 01:59:44,280
Speaker 1: It was illegal at that time. It was illegal to

2260
01:59:44,320 --> 01:59:46,720
Speaker 1: sell dog meat by state law in New York, and

2261
01:59:46,760 --> 01:59:48,760
Speaker 1: it was illegal to sell dog meat in California. So

2262
01:59:48,840 --> 01:59:51,280
Speaker 1: they're like, well, why isn't it for sale everywhere? They won't.

2263
01:59:51,400 --> 01:59:54,160
Speaker 1: USDA is not going to inspect it, and state inspectors

2264
01:59:54,200 --> 01:59:55,760
Speaker 1: won't inspect it. And they say that they don't have

2265
01:59:55,920 --> 01:59:59,760
Speaker 1: any they don't have any sort of like inspection rules

2266
01:59:59,840 --> 02:00:01,920
Speaker 1: on it. So if you wanted to bring it into

2267
02:00:01,960 --> 02:00:05,120
Speaker 1: the supply chain, they don't have it, Like.

2268
02:00:05,120 --> 02:00:06,240
Speaker 4: What are they even looking for?

2269
02:00:06,800 --> 02:00:13,160
Speaker 1: So if you somehow petitioned the USDA successfully to establish

2270
02:00:13,280 --> 02:00:17,480
Speaker 1: dog inspection criteria and at that time in forty eight states,

2271
02:00:17,560 --> 02:00:19,920
Speaker 1: no one would be breaking a law. And and and

2272
02:00:20,040 --> 02:00:21,360
Speaker 1: I and I even looked at this, it'd be like

2273
02:00:21,440 --> 02:00:23,680
Speaker 1: that you could feasibly somehow you got it inspected. You

2274
02:00:23,720 --> 02:00:25,240
Speaker 1: could walk into a grocery store and ever be a

2275
02:00:25,320 --> 02:00:28,040
Speaker 1: pack of ground dog beat and it's not like actually

2276
02:00:28,160 --> 02:00:29,320
Speaker 1: breaking a law, and.

2277
02:00:29,360 --> 02:00:31,440
Speaker 5: Then the next legislative session it'll.

2278
02:00:31,200 --> 02:00:33,920
Speaker 1: Be yeah, that's yeah, well that's what. That's what in

2279
02:00:34,040 --> 02:00:36,800
Speaker 1: my in my research spots is the reason it had

2280
02:00:36,840 --> 02:00:39,440
Speaker 1: turned up in New York California is because it had

2281
02:00:39,480 --> 02:00:41,520
Speaker 1: become an issue, and it had become an issue and

2282
02:00:41,600 --> 02:00:46,960
Speaker 1: someone had overcome whatever like inspection hurdles. So it might

2283
02:00:47,080 --> 02:00:48,960
Speaker 1: be that you you know, and I don't know at

2284
02:00:48,960 --> 02:00:52,760
Speaker 1: what point and uh production, I don't know what point

2285
02:00:52,800 --> 02:00:55,960
Speaker 1: in industry. I know that I remember ten years ago

2286
02:00:56,040 --> 02:00:59,920
Speaker 1: when I was invested in this subject. The the bike

2287
02:01:00,120 --> 02:01:07,720
Speaker 1: an industry was an obstacle to its growth was inspection, right,

2288
02:01:07,840 --> 02:01:10,560
Speaker 1: like getting their goods inspected for interstate travel.

2289
02:01:11,800 --> 02:01:15,320
Speaker 9: Like Texas is they're inspecting animals, yep.

2290
02:01:15,440 --> 02:01:18,040
Speaker 1: But a lot of that stuff can't leave Texas, okay,

2291
02:01:18,280 --> 02:01:21,800
Speaker 1: you know, so they'll have there's certain commercial there's certain

2292
02:01:22,120 --> 02:01:27,280
Speaker 1: legitimately wild game resources like hogs nil guy that can

2293
02:01:27,360 --> 02:01:31,680
Speaker 1: be inspected in Texas, but they're not suitable for interstate gotcha.

2294
02:01:32,720 --> 02:01:35,920
Speaker 1: So they're they're all consumed in state and and there

2295
02:01:36,080 --> 02:01:38,600
Speaker 1: the state has done like what we're talking about, the

2296
02:01:38,640 --> 02:01:42,880
Speaker 1: state has built up capability and complied with demand of

2297
02:01:42,920 --> 02:01:45,000
Speaker 1: an industry that's like, hey, we have this resource, we'd

2298
02:01:45,040 --> 02:01:46,680
Speaker 1: like to fit you to. You know, we're petitioning you

2299
02:01:46,760 --> 02:01:49,240
Speaker 1: to figure out how to inspect it. But very it

2300
02:01:49,320 --> 02:01:51,840
Speaker 1: can be very expensive for the producer because you need

2301
02:01:51,880 --> 02:01:57,000
Speaker 1: to pay the inspector. Ye, so that hasn't happened with

2302
02:01:58,040 --> 02:01:59,680
Speaker 1: squirrels and rabbits.

2303
02:02:01,200 --> 02:02:03,120
Speaker 3: I'm just trying to think about my retirement.

2304
02:02:03,640 --> 02:02:07,040
Speaker 1: So you let's say, let's say Brody starts his squirrel

2305
02:02:07,040 --> 02:02:09,520
Speaker 1: and rabbit place up and all of a sudden, he's

2306
02:02:09,520 --> 02:02:10,720
Speaker 1: down there at there, what's that place?

2307
02:02:10,800 --> 02:02:11,880
Speaker 5: That gravel parking lot.

2308
02:02:13,480 --> 02:02:16,680
Speaker 1: Brody's down there's like Brody's Wild Squirrel Tacos. And you're

2309
02:02:16,760 --> 02:02:19,160
Speaker 1: driving by and you see that. You think to yourself,

2310
02:02:19,400 --> 02:02:24,040
Speaker 1: that's not my problem, but.

2311
02:02:24,120 --> 02:02:28,840
Speaker 5: It could become. So, you know, it depends on how

2312
02:02:28,880 --> 02:02:32,080
Speaker 5: successful his business is and what impact they would have

2313
02:02:32,200 --> 02:02:35,480
Speaker 5: to the squirrel and rabbit population. So right now those

2314
02:02:35,480 --> 02:02:39,080
Speaker 5: species are unregulated. You know, you can hunt them twenty

2315
02:02:39,160 --> 02:02:42,440
Speaker 5: four seven three sixty five without a license with no

2316
02:02:42,640 --> 02:02:46,520
Speaker 5: bag limit right now because demand is so low, exactly, But.

2317
02:02:46,640 --> 02:02:47,880
Speaker 6: If you that's the reason.

2318
02:02:47,960 --> 02:02:48,240
Speaker 5: I thought.

2319
02:02:48,280 --> 02:02:51,880
Speaker 6: The reason is because they were non natives and they're classified.

2320
02:02:53,000 --> 02:02:59,680
Speaker 1: Kind squirrels, oh, cottontail, rabbits, badgers, there's non nature fox.

2321
02:03:00,160 --> 02:03:02,240
Speaker 6: Okay, now I didn't You didn't mention.

2322
02:03:02,160 --> 02:03:04,680
Speaker 4: All those you could be thought pine squirrels or not.

2323
02:03:04,840 --> 02:03:08,440
Speaker 6: Now no, I thought that fox squirrel. So think about

2324
02:03:08,960 --> 02:03:09,440
Speaker 6: Oh he's.

2325
02:03:09,320 --> 02:03:10,120
Speaker 4: Having a pine squirrel.

2326
02:03:11,320 --> 02:03:12,360
Speaker 3: Oh, fox squirrels too.

2327
02:03:12,960 --> 02:03:15,360
Speaker 5: So so to your point, like, we may have a

2328
02:03:15,480 --> 02:03:20,160
Speaker 5: fishing regulation on a body of water where unlimited take

2329
02:03:20,320 --> 02:03:23,200
Speaker 5: of say northerns or something like that, that doesn't mean

2330
02:03:23,280 --> 02:03:26,520
Speaker 5: they're there and there's a huge population. That's what sometimes

2331
02:03:26,600 --> 02:03:29,320
Speaker 5: the public thinks. That's because we don't want them there.

2332
02:03:29,360 --> 02:03:33,560
Speaker 5: And so yeah, harvest as many as you want. The

2333
02:03:33,680 --> 02:03:37,200
Speaker 5: non regulation, it just kind of depends, Uh, it's whether

2334
02:03:37,280 --> 02:03:39,760
Speaker 5: or not the public value is it and what the

2335
02:03:39,880 --> 02:03:42,600
Speaker 5: interest is you guys keep pushing squirrel hunting here is

2336
02:03:42,760 --> 02:03:46,600
Speaker 5: a great pastime. Eventually squirrel harvest is going to increase. Right,

2337
02:03:47,040 --> 02:03:51,400
Speaker 5: it's all the people, you know, and and maybe we

2338
02:03:51,560 --> 02:03:54,680
Speaker 5: might have to regulate it. Typically, you know, laws aren't

2339
02:03:54,760 --> 02:03:58,520
Speaker 5: created to anticipate a problem. It happens, but rarely it's

2340
02:03:58,600 --> 02:04:00,520
Speaker 5: usually in response to a problem.

2341
02:04:01,120 --> 02:04:03,600
Speaker 4: And so someone pointed out to be the inherent lag.

2342
02:04:04,320 --> 02:04:07,680
Speaker 1: Oh, there is, for sure, there's a problematic lag where

2343
02:04:08,120 --> 02:04:11,520
Speaker 1: especially with technological issues. Some almost pointed out that like

2344
02:04:12,600 --> 02:04:15,960
Speaker 1: technologies are adopted quicker than the legislation can address them,

2345
02:04:16,000 --> 02:04:17,040
Speaker 1: which creates conflicts.

2346
02:04:17,120 --> 02:04:19,200
Speaker 5: Sometimes they try and get ahead, but it's I think

2347
02:04:19,240 --> 02:04:21,960
Speaker 5: it's hard to justify or garner support for a law

2348
02:04:22,080 --> 02:04:25,440
Speaker 5: that is addressing a problem that isn't there or isn't

2349
02:04:25,880 --> 02:04:28,160
Speaker 5: you know, as prolificit as we as we think it is.

2350
02:04:29,200 --> 02:04:32,640
Speaker 5: So government definitely in that way is slow to respond.

2351
02:04:32,720 --> 02:04:35,680
Speaker 5: And there's a process. Our legislature only meets every two years,

2352
02:04:36,200 --> 02:04:39,320
Speaker 5: you know, it takes building support and and how it

2353
02:04:39,480 --> 02:04:42,440
Speaker 5: kind of works is typically the legislature makes a law,

2354
02:04:42,560 --> 02:04:46,640
Speaker 5: but it's not it's not very descriptive or it's not

2355
02:04:46,880 --> 02:04:49,960
Speaker 5: very specific. It's saying we we a lot of times

2356
02:04:50,040 --> 02:04:53,960
Speaker 5: it's we authorize this executive branch department to regulate this thing.

2357
02:04:54,440 --> 02:04:56,560
Speaker 5: They need to make rules on how to regulate. So

2358
02:04:56,680 --> 02:05:00,520
Speaker 5: then the Wildlife Commission will create those rules and then

2359
02:05:00,640 --> 02:05:03,320
Speaker 5: we'll implement new laws and then it'll change based on

2360
02:05:03,400 --> 02:05:07,120
Speaker 5: how that implementation went. So that lag or time it

2361
02:05:07,200 --> 02:05:10,440
Speaker 5: takes to implement or regulate something can take multiple years Earl.

2362
02:05:10,600 --> 02:05:12,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, and there's like a fine tuning and it gets

2363
02:05:12,360 --> 02:05:15,600
Speaker 1: frustrated people. I remember the first time it was long

2364
02:05:15,840 --> 02:05:20,760
Speaker 1: long ago, the first time two way communications, it was

2365
02:05:22,640 --> 02:05:26,320
Speaker 1: very blanket and it would have basically been that. I

2366
02:05:26,360 --> 02:05:28,840
Speaker 1: remember one of the arguments was I could be hunting

2367
02:05:28,880 --> 02:05:31,760
Speaker 1: with my eighty year old father and I can't put

2368
02:05:31,800 --> 02:05:33,880
Speaker 1: him in his blind and give him a walkie talkie

2369
02:05:33,920 --> 02:05:35,400
Speaker 1: to let me know if he's having a heart attack.

2370
02:05:36,440 --> 02:05:40,520
Speaker 1: And then the next year, right, they tweak it and

2371
02:05:40,520 --> 02:05:43,600
Speaker 1: then eventually hit on a spot that everyone can agree with.

2372
02:05:44,080 --> 02:05:47,120
Speaker 1: I think that some people look at those and they

2373
02:05:47,200 --> 02:05:51,080
Speaker 1: get mad, sure, and don't look at those as hey,

2374
02:05:51,200 --> 02:05:53,240
Speaker 1: we're figuring this thing out and kind of fine tuning

2375
02:05:53,280 --> 02:05:55,600
Speaker 1: what we mean. Similar thing with trail cams, like Montana

2376
02:05:55,720 --> 02:05:59,320
Speaker 1: no mention of trail cams. Then it was I think

2377
02:05:59,360 --> 02:06:02,320
Speaker 1: it went no trail cams. Then it came back and clarified,

2378
02:06:02,640 --> 02:06:04,960
Speaker 1: sell you their trail cams, right, and then people get like, well,

2379
02:06:05,040 --> 02:06:07,520
Speaker 1: by god, make up your mind, and you kind of

2380
02:06:07,600 --> 02:06:09,840
Speaker 1: like we're trying, we're trying to make up your mind

2381
02:06:09,920 --> 02:06:11,960
Speaker 1: and figure out where the technology is going, how people

2382
02:06:12,000 --> 02:06:13,880
Speaker 1: are using them, and we'll hopefully hit on a thing

2383
02:06:13,960 --> 02:06:15,160
Speaker 1: that's livable for everybody.

2384
02:06:15,240 --> 02:06:18,800
Speaker 5: And we don't want to change the rules every year.

2385
02:06:18,920 --> 02:06:21,120
Speaker 5: I mean, I, as a recreations hunter, don't want the

2386
02:06:21,200 --> 02:06:23,520
Speaker 5: rules to change every because I get confused and it

2387
02:06:23,600 --> 02:06:26,560
Speaker 5: takes time to get updated on those and educated. And

2388
02:06:26,720 --> 02:06:30,680
Speaker 5: so those decisions where regulations are changed or tweaked, there's

2389
02:06:30,720 --> 02:06:34,800
Speaker 5: a lot of discussion and planning that involves attorneys, game managers,

2390
02:06:35,000 --> 02:06:38,840
Speaker 5: wildlife commission, legislatures, all those you know involved in the

2391
02:06:38,920 --> 02:06:41,720
Speaker 5: decision making process, and there's a lot of feedback loop.

2392
02:06:42,120 --> 02:06:46,400
Speaker 5: Most regulation changes that we implement, unless it's something just

2393
02:06:46,480 --> 02:06:50,520
Speaker 5: a clarification, there's a whole public scoping effort that goes

2394
02:06:50,560 --> 02:06:52,800
Speaker 5: behind it too, where we get the public's opinion if

2395
02:06:53,120 --> 02:06:54,800
Speaker 5: we were to make this illegal, if we were to

2396
02:06:55,040 --> 02:06:57,720
Speaker 5: put in this regulation, how would it impact you. What's

2397
02:06:57,760 --> 02:06:59,280
Speaker 5: your opinions on it? Do you support it?

2398
02:06:59,440 --> 02:06:59,760
Speaker 1: Do you not?

2399
02:07:00,240 --> 02:07:02,720
Speaker 5: Should we tweak it? That's a huge part of the

2400
02:07:02,760 --> 02:07:06,480
Speaker 5: process also, But like I said, our jobs to implement it,

2401
02:07:06,720 --> 02:07:10,040
Speaker 5: enforce it, and sometimes the feedback we get or the

2402
02:07:10,120 --> 02:07:13,280
Speaker 5: implementation goes sideways or it needs some tweaking, we send

2403
02:07:13,360 --> 02:07:15,560
Speaker 5: that back up and then and then laws can be

2404
02:07:15,680 --> 02:07:17,240
Speaker 5: changed or adjusted based on that.

2405
02:07:27,200 --> 02:07:29,560
Speaker 1: You know, it bummed me out to see I'm curious

2406
02:07:29,560 --> 02:07:33,560
Speaker 1: how had implications for you out in the field. The

2407
02:07:33,720 --> 02:07:40,120
Speaker 1: state relaxed its salvage requirements, its game meet salvage requirements

2408
02:07:43,120 --> 02:07:45,720
Speaker 1: on what well they went from. So it used to

2409
02:07:45,720 --> 02:07:48,760
Speaker 1: be like bird a mallard size or bigger, you had

2410
02:07:48,800 --> 02:07:53,280
Speaker 1: to retain legs and wings, teal whatever however they spelled

2411
02:07:53,320 --> 02:07:55,160
Speaker 1: it out, but basically, if you killed a canon the

2412
02:07:55,200 --> 02:07:58,240
Speaker 1: goose at a time a few years ago, you had

2413
02:07:58,240 --> 02:08:00,760
Speaker 1: to keep the wing in the leg. I think they

2414
02:08:00,800 --> 02:08:03,080
Speaker 1: brought everything to breast, right, I think it was.

2415
02:08:03,160 --> 02:08:04,640
Speaker 8: I thought it was just a leg and thigh.

2416
02:08:05,000 --> 02:08:07,080
Speaker 1: Leg and thigh. If it was a duck size or bigger,

2417
02:08:07,720 --> 02:08:10,040
Speaker 1: it was skeel size or bigger. I think it was.

2418
02:08:10,280 --> 02:08:12,720
Speaker 4: It was like I kind of liked the precision of it.

2419
02:08:13,400 --> 02:08:14,080
Speaker 1: Was that a thing.

2420
02:08:15,520 --> 02:08:17,880
Speaker 8: And specified like rib meat and neck meat?

2421
02:08:18,520 --> 02:08:18,760
Speaker 1: Yep.

2422
02:08:20,080 --> 02:08:22,280
Speaker 8: And that was an interesting one too, because I was

2423
02:08:22,320 --> 02:08:24,040
Speaker 8: living in Idaho at the time, and they all of

2424
02:08:24,080 --> 02:08:27,760
Speaker 8: a sudden you weren't required to keep rib meat or

2425
02:08:27,840 --> 02:08:30,200
Speaker 8: neck meat. And then I started on a deer.

2426
02:08:31,280 --> 02:08:33,880
Speaker 3: Yeah me, neck met duck be tough.

2427
02:08:34,160 --> 02:08:38,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's some salvage requirements like there there was there

2428
02:08:38,080 --> 02:08:40,720
Speaker 1: was hunting units in Alaska. There's a salvage requirement on

2429
02:08:40,840 --> 02:08:43,960
Speaker 1: the liver, and there's a salvage requirement on you couldn't

2430
02:08:43,960 --> 02:08:47,920
Speaker 1: bone your meat in the field. Well, remember you just

2431
02:08:47,960 --> 02:08:53,160
Speaker 1: did something to destroy your microphone. He broke it.

2432
02:08:55,800 --> 02:08:58,320
Speaker 3: I remember when we were in Alaska one time, because

2433
02:08:58,360 --> 02:09:02,720
Speaker 3: you have to salvage rib me on caribou. Whatever you said,

2434
02:09:02,880 --> 02:09:06,880
Speaker 3: they'll often fly. When they're flying, they'll look down at

2435
02:09:06,960 --> 02:09:09,680
Speaker 3: the carcass to see if that rib meat has been stripped.

2436
02:09:09,840 --> 02:09:13,960
Speaker 1: Well, I this is a long time ago, hypothetically. I

2437
02:09:14,080 --> 02:09:17,520
Speaker 1: used to hunt with the dude named Chuck. And Chuck

2438
02:09:18,880 --> 02:09:21,720
Speaker 1: had once had a job out on the Alaska Peninsula,

2439
02:09:21,880 --> 02:09:23,080
Speaker 1: just a young kid. He didn't know what the hell

2440
02:09:23,160 --> 02:09:28,240
Speaker 1: was going on, and he encountered folk whose practice was

2441
02:09:28,400 --> 02:09:30,920
Speaker 1: to make it the carcass look good from the air, right,

2442
02:09:32,040 --> 02:09:35,600
Speaker 1: because that bomb the top side real good, so that

2443
02:09:35,640 --> 02:09:37,280
Speaker 1: from the air it looked like they had been cleaned up,

2444
02:09:37,360 --> 02:09:40,360
Speaker 1: and then fling everything off. And the outfitter was like,

2445
02:09:40,480 --> 02:09:42,520
Speaker 1: just get make it look real good up there and

2446
02:09:42,600 --> 02:09:44,000
Speaker 1: just fling it in the bushes, and then if someone

2447
02:09:44,040 --> 02:09:45,800
Speaker 1: flies over, it looks like someone pulled the rib meat

2448
02:09:45,800 --> 02:09:46,640
Speaker 1: off it. Oh.

2449
02:09:46,880 --> 02:09:50,080
Speaker 8: I worked under an outfitter in New Mexico who one

2450
02:09:50,240 --> 02:09:54,200
Speaker 8: time showed up to help pack an elk out, which

2451
02:09:54,200 --> 02:09:57,840
Speaker 8: he was not happy about, and I had to ask

2452
02:09:58,000 --> 02:10:02,080
Speaker 8: him to just stop trying to bone the elk. And

2453
02:10:02,320 --> 02:10:05,839
Speaker 8: he explained to me two or three times the exact

2454
02:10:07,000 --> 02:10:10,320
Speaker 8: AH cuts that need to be taken in order to

2455
02:10:10,400 --> 02:10:14,840
Speaker 8: make it legal, like, no, you need to take the

2456
02:10:14,960 --> 02:10:17,760
Speaker 8: loin that, like basically, why are you taking all of

2457
02:10:17,840 --> 02:10:20,960
Speaker 8: this ship? Yeah, and was very frustrated that he thought

2458
02:10:21,080 --> 02:10:23,040
Speaker 8: at some point that would end up on his back.

2459
02:10:24,280 --> 02:10:24,760
Speaker 8: It was not.

2460
02:10:24,960 --> 02:10:25,560
Speaker 6: It was horrible.

2461
02:10:26,160 --> 02:10:28,600
Speaker 1: Did that did that rule change? Have any real im vacations?

2462
02:10:28,640 --> 02:10:30,480
Speaker 1: Like was that a thing you would encounter a lot

2463
02:10:30,520 --> 02:10:33,200
Speaker 1: in the field arguing with people about well you're supposed

2464
02:10:33,200 --> 02:10:34,480
Speaker 1: to take the leg on that one, but not the

2465
02:10:34,560 --> 02:10:36,280
Speaker 1: leg on that one? Or was it kind of a

2466
02:10:36,440 --> 02:10:37,280
Speaker 1: non point for you?

2467
02:10:38,120 --> 02:10:41,680
Speaker 5: I mean, it wasn't a huge issue, but definitely cases

2468
02:10:41,760 --> 02:10:45,080
Speaker 5: where we'd find, you know, dozens of of whatever bird

2469
02:10:45,240 --> 02:10:49,000
Speaker 5: dumped in in a dumpster and only breasted out. It's

2470
02:10:49,080 --> 02:10:52,320
Speaker 5: really common, you know, and thighs not being taken or something.

2471
02:10:52,120 --> 02:10:53,480
Speaker 4: And at a point in time that would have been

2472
02:10:53,720 --> 02:10:54,480
Speaker 4: been your problem.

2473
02:10:54,640 --> 02:10:59,800
Speaker 1: Sure, absolutely, you know, yeah, I want to talk about

2474
02:10:59,800 --> 02:11:07,040
Speaker 1: in for a minute. Uh, this isn't even entrapment. We

2475
02:11:07,120 --> 02:11:09,360
Speaker 1: had a guy right in. So do you think about

2476
02:11:09,360 --> 02:11:11,480
Speaker 1: a game warden in Arkansas as your colleague or is

2477
02:11:11,520 --> 02:11:12,160
Speaker 1: that too far away?

2478
02:11:12,200 --> 02:11:12,320
Speaker 5: Oh?

2479
02:11:12,400 --> 02:11:14,480
Speaker 1: Sure, okay, sure, yeah, I mean we got a guy

2480
02:11:14,560 --> 02:11:16,560
Speaker 1: right And this is just his version of the story.

2481
02:11:17,200 --> 02:11:18,680
Speaker 5: Everyone has a story like this.

2482
02:11:19,000 --> 02:11:21,560
Speaker 1: Of his version of the story is here he is.

2483
02:11:21,920 --> 02:11:24,480
Speaker 1: This isn't entrapment. I don't know what it is. Here's

2484
02:11:24,520 --> 02:11:25,920
Speaker 1: his version of story. I don't know who the hell

2485
02:11:26,000 --> 02:11:30,480
Speaker 1: this guy is. He's cleaning a duck talking to a

2486
02:11:30,560 --> 02:11:33,920
Speaker 1: game warden. Let's just say this is true. He's cleaning

2487
02:11:33,960 --> 02:11:35,280
Speaker 1: a duck, talking to a game warder, and he gets

2488
02:11:35,280 --> 02:11:37,120
Speaker 1: to a part in his duck cleaning process where he's

2489
02:11:37,160 --> 02:11:39,960
Speaker 1: committing an illegal act because he needs to leave a

2490
02:11:40,000 --> 02:11:43,320
Speaker 1: fully feathered head or a fully feathered wing attached to

2491
02:11:43,400 --> 02:11:45,560
Speaker 1: the carcass until he gets it to its final place,

2492
02:11:45,640 --> 02:11:46,720
Speaker 1: to his abode.

2493
02:11:47,680 --> 02:11:49,480
Speaker 4: So the warden watches him.

2494
02:11:50,880 --> 02:11:56,560
Speaker 1: Remove the wing and head and then says, ha, gotcha, Now,

2495
02:11:56,720 --> 02:11:58,320
Speaker 1: how would you handle a situation like that?

2496
02:12:00,080 --> 02:12:02,120
Speaker 4: Would you have said do you feel personally? You would

2497
02:12:02,120 --> 02:12:03,480
Speaker 4: have said, you know, the minute you do.

2498
02:12:03,680 --> 02:12:08,000
Speaker 5: That, it's hard to Monday morning quarterback in a situation

2499
02:12:08,240 --> 02:12:11,880
Speaker 5: like this, I'm not well, so.

2500
02:12:12,040 --> 02:12:13,800
Speaker 4: You don't want to sell this game warning you don't

2501
02:12:13,800 --> 02:12:14,120
Speaker 4: even know.

2502
02:12:14,480 --> 02:12:17,720
Speaker 5: Well, there's a lot of thoughts. One. Every situation has

2503
02:12:17,760 --> 02:12:21,760
Speaker 5: a lot of nuance in detail and every what happened? Well,

2504
02:12:22,560 --> 02:12:23,000
Speaker 5: how long?

2505
02:12:23,360 --> 02:12:25,920
Speaker 3: How much you told him what this guy said?

2506
02:12:26,200 --> 02:12:28,200
Speaker 5: Did he grab that burden just snap it right in

2507
02:12:28,280 --> 02:12:28,720
Speaker 5: front of him?

2508
02:12:28,800 --> 02:12:31,040
Speaker 12: Or was he being meticulous and careful in the morning,

2509
02:12:31,200 --> 02:12:34,120
Speaker 12: was watching him for twenty minutes clean this thing like

2510
02:12:34,280 --> 02:12:34,880
Speaker 12: now I'm going to.

2511
02:12:34,920 --> 02:12:36,600
Speaker 5: Remove that exactly?

2512
02:12:38,760 --> 02:12:42,720
Speaker 6: What was he watching the prior hour or two hours

2513
02:12:42,880 --> 02:12:45,040
Speaker 6: or days about the group of hunters?

2514
02:12:45,320 --> 02:12:45,480
Speaker 9: You know?

2515
02:12:45,960 --> 02:12:49,640
Speaker 5: So it makes me I have had a conversation with

2516
02:12:49,760 --> 02:12:52,800
Speaker 5: my son a lot lately as he complains about referees

2517
02:12:52,880 --> 02:12:57,040
Speaker 5: in football or teachers that now don't allow him to

2518
02:12:57,120 --> 02:12:59,440
Speaker 5: eat in class when he always used to be able

2519
02:12:59,520 --> 02:13:04,040
Speaker 5: to And and I tell him, which I tell is,

2520
02:13:04,120 --> 02:13:07,800
Speaker 5: don't take my inaction or the person of authorities in

2521
02:13:07,880 --> 02:13:12,280
Speaker 5: action as permission. Don't don't take just because the police

2522
02:13:12,320 --> 02:13:14,520
Speaker 5: officer didn't pull you over that one time or didn't

2523
02:13:14,560 --> 02:13:16,960
Speaker 5: give you a ticket last time, meaning now you have

2524
02:13:17,080 --> 02:13:21,760
Speaker 5: permission to do this thing forever it But people get

2525
02:13:21,840 --> 02:13:24,040
Speaker 5: in this rut. Well like last time I did it

2526
02:13:24,080 --> 02:13:27,720
Speaker 5: and the cop didn't do anything exactly. You guys never

2527
02:13:27,800 --> 02:13:30,160
Speaker 5: seem to care about this rule in the past, you

2528
02:13:30,240 --> 02:13:34,480
Speaker 5: know all the time, you know, you never cared that

2529
02:13:34,600 --> 02:13:37,240
Speaker 5: we camped in this spot. Well, you know, now we're

2530
02:13:37,280 --> 02:13:39,800
Speaker 5: priorities changed and we're addressing it because it's becoming a

2531
02:13:39,920 --> 02:13:45,520
Speaker 5: huge issue. But but in that instance, you know, again,

2532
02:13:45,560 --> 02:13:48,480
Speaker 5: I don't know the circumstance, how quick the interaction happened.

2533
02:13:48,800 --> 02:13:51,800
Speaker 5: It's definitely not entrapment. I mean, entrapment is something.

2534
02:13:54,520 --> 02:13:57,320
Speaker 4: I have question, but it's not like I just have

2535
02:13:57,400 --> 02:13:58,520
Speaker 4: a philosophical question.

2536
02:13:58,600 --> 02:14:01,840
Speaker 5: There's there's you know, I I have walked up on

2537
02:14:02,040 --> 02:14:05,720
Speaker 5: plenty of people that are gutting animals or tagging in

2538
02:14:05,800 --> 02:14:08,440
Speaker 5: the middle of tagging animals. The last thing I do

2539
02:14:08,720 --> 02:14:11,640
Speaker 5: is check someone's license while they're just getting ready to shoot.

2540
02:14:11,800 --> 02:14:13,880
Speaker 5: Like I f Yannis sitting in the bushes. I drive by,

2541
02:14:14,160 --> 02:14:16,400
Speaker 5: he's ready to shoot a mule deer. I'm not going

2542
02:14:16,480 --> 02:14:18,320
Speaker 5: to run out there and wave my hands say stop

2543
02:14:18,400 --> 02:14:20,360
Speaker 5: before you shoot that, show me your license. I want

2544
02:14:20,400 --> 02:14:22,480
Speaker 5: to make sure you're legal. Sit there, I'm going to

2545
02:14:22,560 --> 02:14:24,320
Speaker 5: let them harvest the animal. I'm going to let them

2546
02:14:24,360 --> 02:14:27,040
Speaker 5: do all the dragon work, so, you know, because I

2547
02:14:27,080 --> 02:14:30,640
Speaker 5: don't want to help with that, right kidding, you know.

2548
02:14:30,760 --> 02:14:32,440
Speaker 5: Let him get all that done, and then I'm going

2549
02:14:32,480 --> 02:14:33,960
Speaker 5: to make sure it's tagged, and then I'm going to

2550
02:14:34,000 --> 02:14:38,280
Speaker 5: go over there and check his animal. And sometimes there

2551
02:14:38,360 --> 02:14:41,360
Speaker 5: may be issues, and sometimes based on the situation, we

2552
02:14:41,480 --> 02:14:46,000
Speaker 5: may educate warn guide them through the process. I can

2553
02:14:46,080 --> 02:14:49,080
Speaker 5: recall driving by on a state section and watching a

2554
02:14:49,160 --> 02:14:52,560
Speaker 5: guy kill a cow elk, walking out there, realizing this

2555
02:14:52,760 --> 02:14:54,560
Speaker 5: was a nineteen year old kid that I just had

2556
02:14:54,640 --> 02:14:57,280
Speaker 5: in a hunter education a couple weeks before, and he

2557
02:14:57,440 --> 02:15:01,440
Speaker 5: was totally overwhelmed by himself. He was just freaking out, sweating.

2558
02:15:01,840 --> 02:15:05,080
Speaker 5: He'd just driven by cow wellk happened to be running by,

2559
02:15:05,240 --> 02:15:07,560
Speaker 5: I mean, just luck, and now he didn't know what

2560
02:15:07,680 --> 02:15:10,560
Speaker 5: to do. He had the tag unvalidated stuff down the

2561
02:15:10,640 --> 02:15:13,640
Speaker 5: throat of the elk. He he'd had no clue how

2562
02:15:13,680 --> 02:15:17,000
Speaker 5: to gut it, you know, and I could have easily

2563
02:15:17,200 --> 02:15:19,720
Speaker 5: wrapped him up for a few minor violations, but I

2564
02:15:19,840 --> 02:15:21,680
Speaker 5: took the time to show him how to gut it,

2565
02:15:21,960 --> 02:15:24,680
Speaker 5: held the legs, made him do the cutting, and then.

2566
02:15:25,720 --> 02:15:28,320
Speaker 3: That's way more valuable than ticketing, and then he never

2567
02:15:28,360 --> 02:15:29,280
Speaker 3: would have hunted again.

2568
02:15:29,480 --> 02:15:32,080
Speaker 5: Right, But it depends on the situation. I mean, if

2569
02:15:32,560 --> 02:15:36,480
Speaker 5: if your caller is a seasoned veteran who's been hunting

2570
02:15:36,520 --> 02:15:39,520
Speaker 5: for twenty years and he knows the rules, he shouldn't

2571
02:15:39,560 --> 02:15:43,200
Speaker 5: have to be reminded. He shouldn't need that education from

2572
02:15:43,240 --> 02:15:44,680
Speaker 5: the warden. He should just be able to do the

2573
02:15:44,800 --> 02:15:47,680
Speaker 5: right thing. Especially when the warden's standing right in front

2574
02:15:47,720 --> 02:15:50,120
Speaker 5: of him. His brain should click and should go, man,

2575
02:15:50,240 --> 02:15:53,000
Speaker 5: warden's right here, I should probably do this right, you know.

2576
02:15:53,520 --> 02:15:54,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, and that.

2577
02:15:57,040 --> 02:15:59,520
Speaker 3: Build arkansons he had.

2578
02:15:59,560 --> 02:16:02,520
Speaker 8: He just hold out the hibachi and said, sir, you're

2579
02:16:02,560 --> 02:16:03,720
Speaker 8: ready for me, all right?

2580
02:16:04,160 --> 02:16:05,600
Speaker 5: So if he was going to cook it right in

2581
02:16:05,680 --> 02:16:06,640
Speaker 5: that instance, yeah.

2582
02:16:06,520 --> 02:16:08,720
Speaker 4: It just says this guy's right in the ticket He's like, well,

2583
02:16:08,760 --> 02:16:09,960
Speaker 4: I got a little something for you.

2584
02:16:12,120 --> 02:16:14,040
Speaker 3: He just raw right now.

2585
02:16:15,040 --> 02:16:19,000
Speaker 5: So I think favorite when I was all of them

2586
02:16:19,360 --> 02:16:22,880
Speaker 5: city police officer, I wrote hundreds of tickets a year.

2587
02:16:23,000 --> 02:16:26,960
Speaker 5: I mean absolutely hundreds, And the average game warning in

2588
02:16:27,000 --> 02:16:28,840
Speaker 5: Montana writes fifty to one hundred tickets.

2589
02:16:28,880 --> 02:16:30,160
Speaker 1: So I mean time it's used to it used to

2590
02:16:30,160 --> 02:16:31,720
Speaker 1: be good for fifteen hundred tickets a year.

2591
02:16:32,320 --> 02:16:35,440
Speaker 5: Yeah, you could easily as a traffic meant traffic right,

2592
02:16:35,640 --> 02:16:37,640
Speaker 5: because that's all you're doing. You're out of the call rotation.

2593
02:16:37,800 --> 02:16:41,080
Speaker 5: Your job is to write traffic tickets and force traffic law.

2594
02:16:41,520 --> 02:16:43,920
Speaker 5: And so you know, I had average ten twelve tickets

2595
02:16:43,959 --> 02:16:46,160
Speaker 5: a shift, a ten hour shift. You multiply it out.

2596
02:16:46,200 --> 02:16:48,840
Speaker 5: There's some vacations and training in there, but could easily

2597
02:16:48,920 --> 02:16:51,640
Speaker 5: go over a thousand tickets a year, Game Waring, I

2598
02:16:51,680 --> 02:16:54,240
Speaker 5: think the most I've ever written is around one hundred.

2599
02:16:54,520 --> 02:16:56,680
Speaker 5: You know, most of our guys averaged less than that.

2600
02:16:57,320 --> 02:17:00,760
Speaker 5: Huge amount of education that occurs, huge amount of mentorship

2601
02:17:00,840 --> 02:17:04,720
Speaker 5: that occurs warnings out there. It's just we're not out

2602
02:17:04,760 --> 02:17:06,880
Speaker 5: there to jam people up. We're out there to get

2603
02:17:06,959 --> 02:17:09,800
Speaker 5: you to do the right thing. A good day for

2604
02:17:10,000 --> 02:17:12,080
Speaker 5: us is a day where we don't write any tickets,

2605
02:17:12,240 --> 02:17:14,560
Speaker 5: because that means everybody around us was doing the right thing.

2606
02:17:14,959 --> 02:17:18,080
Speaker 5: I'd love for an instance where my job becomes obsolete.

2607
02:17:18,959 --> 02:17:21,600
Speaker 5: That would be amazing for society, that law enforcement is

2608
02:17:21,680 --> 02:17:22,800
Speaker 5: no longer needed because.

2609
02:17:22,560 --> 02:17:25,720
Speaker 1: They're going far out as long as there.

2610
02:17:29,800 --> 02:17:34,200
Speaker 4: Then I want to, Okay, one more thing I want

2611
02:17:34,240 --> 02:17:34,800
Speaker 4: to ask about.

2612
02:17:34,879 --> 02:17:35,160
Speaker 1: It's a.

2613
02:17:36,959 --> 02:17:39,360
Speaker 4: College year's named Eric Crawford. We discussed this one time.

2614
02:17:39,480 --> 02:17:41,520
Speaker 1: Idaho warden we were talking about we spent a lot

2615
02:17:41,520 --> 02:17:45,800
Speaker 1: of time talking about the robo deer, and he's got

2616
02:17:45,840 --> 02:17:48,840
Speaker 1: all these hilarious stories about robo deer. Sure, you know,

2617
02:17:50,560 --> 02:17:53,560
Speaker 1: including people who even when the warden shows up, he's

2618
02:17:53,560 --> 02:17:56,680
Speaker 1: still in disbelief that this is not an actual deer.

2619
02:17:57,600 --> 02:18:00,920
Speaker 1: But he had pointed out that they deliberately don't use

2620
02:18:01,720 --> 02:18:05,640
Speaker 1: They literally don't use trophy correct class animals.

2621
02:18:05,720 --> 02:18:06,600
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's the same for us.

2622
02:18:07,520 --> 02:18:08,200
Speaker 4: I disagree.

2623
02:18:09,879 --> 02:18:13,320
Speaker 1: Why in the world is it okay for guy? Like,

2624
02:18:14,480 --> 02:18:16,400
Speaker 1: why not have it be a two hundred inch milder

2625
02:18:18,520 --> 02:18:22,400
Speaker 1: because then you really finding out what people are made of, true,

2626
02:18:22,480 --> 02:18:25,240
Speaker 1: because if not, you're just selecting meat hunters. You're just

2627
02:18:25,280 --> 02:18:26,440
Speaker 1: getting meat hunters in trouble.

2628
02:18:26,560 --> 02:18:28,959
Speaker 3: I mean, it's the idea everyone's going to be like.

2629
02:18:29,080 --> 02:18:32,520
Speaker 1: Nah, this is that's his thing was that everybody's gonna

2630
02:18:32,520 --> 02:18:34,360
Speaker 1: shoot at it if it's a two hundred in fielder,

2631
02:18:34,480 --> 02:18:36,480
Speaker 1: Come on, that's like you can't give up like that.

2632
02:18:37,400 --> 02:18:44,640
Speaker 5: Definitely, Usually we're targeting a specific violation, so it typically

2633
02:18:44,720 --> 02:18:48,039
Speaker 5: doesn't have to do with trophy harvest. It typically has

2634
02:18:48,080 --> 02:18:52,080
Speaker 5: to do with shooting from the road. Trespassing, shooting an

2635
02:18:52,120 --> 02:18:56,040
Speaker 5: animal that uh, the season may be closed. Maybe you

2636
02:18:56,120 --> 02:18:59,160
Speaker 5: know there's no cow hard anything convincing to me yet,

2637
02:18:59,280 --> 02:19:02,240
Speaker 5: ye and so so typically that's what we're targeting. We

2638
02:19:02,400 --> 02:19:06,120
Speaker 5: don't have point restrictions in Montana and of our districts

2639
02:19:06,600 --> 02:19:09,240
Speaker 5: and so you know, you know the thing we we

2640
02:19:09,480 --> 02:19:11,680
Speaker 5: have used in the before would be a spike, would

2641
02:19:11,720 --> 02:19:14,720
Speaker 5: be the closest thing to a trophy.

2642
02:19:15,040 --> 02:19:19,440
Speaker 4: You know that is just not that do what a

2643
02:19:19,640 --> 02:19:21,640
Speaker 4: giant bucket there and see what have does?

2644
02:19:21,720 --> 02:19:25,280
Speaker 3: Montana have a version of the thing. It's called the

2645
02:19:25,360 --> 02:19:28,080
Speaker 3: Samson law, like where if you poach an animal of

2646
02:19:28,120 --> 02:19:30,600
Speaker 3: a certain size, the consequences are great.

2647
02:19:30,680 --> 02:19:35,760
Speaker 5: Yep, absolutely absolutely so yeah, so there's trophy restitution built

2648
02:19:35,840 --> 02:19:38,199
Speaker 5: into our statute. You know, if you kill a trophy

2649
02:19:38,480 --> 02:19:42,200
Speaker 5: bull elk, it's eight thousand dollars and that's excluding the

2650
02:19:42,280 --> 02:19:44,560
Speaker 5: cost of whatever violation the ticket you wrote.

2651
02:19:44,600 --> 02:19:46,480
Speaker 4: So the state like where they're like, we got eight

2652
02:19:46,520 --> 02:19:47,680
Speaker 4: thousand bucks into that thing.

2653
02:19:47,879 --> 02:19:50,800
Speaker 5: Yep, that's kind of you know, when the legislature passed that,

2654
02:19:50,920 --> 02:19:53,879
Speaker 5: they looked at basically what it costs to replace the animal,

2655
02:19:53,920 --> 02:19:56,640
Speaker 5: what's the value to society, what it costs if we

2656
02:19:56,720 --> 02:19:58,800
Speaker 5: were to try and replace it. You know, the smallest

2657
02:19:58,840 --> 02:20:01,240
Speaker 5: thing would be like a fish ten dollars, and the

2658
02:20:01,360 --> 02:20:04,320
Speaker 5: highest is a big horn sheep was thirty thousand. Those

2659
02:20:04,440 --> 02:20:07,240
Speaker 5: amounts aren't automatic. The court would have to award it,

2660
02:20:07,360 --> 02:20:09,360
Speaker 5: and we rarely see those top dollars.

2661
02:20:09,879 --> 02:20:13,040
Speaker 1: But really, but I want to get back to this, Steve,

2662
02:20:13,360 --> 02:20:16,440
Speaker 1: I got to help me understand why not a huge buck?

2663
02:20:17,520 --> 02:20:21,000
Speaker 8: Just real quick. Way back when I was working construction

2664
02:20:21,120 --> 02:20:24,680
Speaker 8: in Missoula, my buddy and I go out hunting for

2665
02:20:24,760 --> 02:20:29,000
Speaker 8: the weekend. We'd already killed smelk during archery season, but

2666
02:20:29,080 --> 02:20:31,600
Speaker 8: we're driving out of this area and it's like, you know,

2667
02:20:31,720 --> 02:20:33,840
Speaker 8: kind of that November time frame where there's just there's

2668
02:20:33,840 --> 02:20:37,160
Speaker 8: a lot of people road hunting and we look up

2669
02:20:37,200 --> 02:20:43,240
Speaker 8: on the hillside and there's a spike bull spike bull

2670
02:20:43,280 --> 02:20:45,920
Speaker 8: elk sitting there like, oh, look at that, and barely

2671
02:20:46,000 --> 02:20:48,120
Speaker 8: touched the brakes. It just kind of kept going. The

2672
02:20:48,320 --> 02:20:52,000
Speaker 8: next day on the job site, one of the kind

2673
02:20:52,040 --> 02:20:57,520
Speaker 8: of general foreman type dudes is complaining loudly to everybody

2674
02:20:58,040 --> 02:20:59,879
Speaker 8: that he and his wife were out hunting.

2675
02:21:02,800 --> 02:21:06,720
Speaker 6: And swear she shout out a cow.

2676
02:21:08,560 --> 02:21:11,720
Speaker 8: Off the road out the window, and it was it

2677
02:21:11,840 --> 02:21:12,840
Speaker 8: was not as it seemed.

2678
02:21:13,480 --> 02:21:16,840
Speaker 5: No kid, Oh yeah, Steve, you've never gotten horn fever.

2679
02:21:17,920 --> 02:21:20,320
Speaker 4: But that's I'm saying, like, let's say I get horn fever,

2680
02:21:20,680 --> 02:21:21,320
Speaker 4: stick it to me.

2681
02:21:21,879 --> 02:21:25,920
Speaker 5: But then we're starting to target people who normally would

2682
02:21:25,920 --> 02:21:28,800
Speaker 5: do the right thing, and just in the moment you need,

2683
02:21:28,959 --> 02:21:31,440
Speaker 5: they make a bad decision. We're out there to get

2684
02:21:31,480 --> 02:21:34,400
Speaker 5: true poachers. We're not out there to make poachers out

2685
02:21:34,440 --> 02:21:36,240
Speaker 5: of people, or people into poachers.

2686
02:21:36,680 --> 02:21:40,280
Speaker 1: But in the New Testament about like Judas and stuff, Man,

2687
02:21:40,320 --> 02:21:43,920
Speaker 1: you gotta test like the true belie.

2688
02:21:45,600 --> 02:21:46,240
Speaker 5: All the time.

2689
02:21:46,480 --> 02:21:52,520
Speaker 3: You know, Steve, maybe they do use them, they're just not.

2690
02:21:54,560 --> 02:21:55,320
Speaker 1: He's being coy.

2691
02:21:56,680 --> 02:21:59,760
Speaker 8: Think you how many two hundred inch mule deer racks

2692
02:21:59,800 --> 02:22:05,400
Speaker 8: you'd have to replace every year people shooting? Have you

2693
02:22:05,560 --> 02:22:08,360
Speaker 8: have you tackled the open fields doctrine? I think that

2694
02:22:08,440 --> 02:22:09,520
Speaker 8: would be a great one.

2695
02:22:09,879 --> 02:22:12,160
Speaker 1: No, go ahead. I don't even know enough about it

2696
02:22:12,200 --> 02:22:12,480
Speaker 1: to ask.

2697
02:22:13,040 --> 02:22:16,279
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, And then I got a final thing I want.

2698
02:22:16,120 --> 02:22:16,640
Speaker 1: To do that.

2699
02:22:16,760 --> 02:22:20,360
Speaker 8: The grand scope of things, right is wildlife belongs to

2700
02:22:20,400 --> 02:22:24,119
Speaker 8: all of us, right, and it's managed by the states

2701
02:22:24,360 --> 02:22:31,240
Speaker 8: in like a trust fashion for the public. Wildlife spends

2702
02:22:31,280 --> 02:22:32,840
Speaker 8: a lot of time on public ground. It spends a

2703
02:22:32,879 --> 02:22:35,600
Speaker 8: lot of time on private ground, it does not recognize

2704
02:22:35,640 --> 02:22:38,240
Speaker 8: the existence of a three strand barboy or fence that

2705
02:22:38,440 --> 02:22:44,440
Speaker 8: separates private from public. However, on private property, private property

2706
02:22:44,520 --> 02:22:51,440
Speaker 8: rights are such that the Montana is a different state.

2707
02:22:52,280 --> 02:22:53,199
Speaker 6: But the way.

2708
02:22:55,360 --> 02:23:00,600
Speaker 8: The law is interpreted in many areas is law enforcement

2709
02:23:00,959 --> 02:23:06,480
Speaker 8: can enter onto private property without the express permission of

2710
02:23:06,560 --> 02:23:13,959
Speaker 8: the landowner or the landowner's agent if they see illegal

2711
02:23:14,040 --> 02:23:22,760
Speaker 8: behavior or suspicious behavior in the open fields, okay, meaning

2712
02:23:23,040 --> 02:23:29,760
Speaker 8: something visible versus something they can't just like walk into

2713
02:23:29,800 --> 02:23:35,440
Speaker 8: your barn or your home without a warrant to do

2714
02:23:35,640 --> 02:23:37,240
Speaker 8: so signed by a judge.

2715
02:23:38,240 --> 02:23:40,080
Speaker 1: I mean he's driving down the road, he looks out

2716
02:23:40,160 --> 02:23:42,640
Speaker 1: in a in a picked cornfield and there's some guys

2717
02:23:42,680 --> 02:23:47,040
Speaker 1: with decoys set up, uh, and like they're blasting way

2718
02:23:47,080 --> 02:23:49,760
Speaker 1: before legal shoot light or after legal shooting light. You

2719
02:23:49,879 --> 02:23:52,080
Speaker 1: have you can go out there. You guys can't say, hey,

2720
02:23:52,120 --> 02:23:55,160
Speaker 1: your trespass and go get a search warrant? Right or whatever? Yes?

2721
02:23:56,040 --> 02:23:57,400
Speaker 5: Is that is?

2722
02:23:57,440 --> 02:23:57,480
Speaker 1: That?

2723
02:23:57,920 --> 02:23:59,080
Speaker 8: Was that close enough?

2724
02:23:59,400 --> 02:24:05,200
Speaker 5: Kind of So Montana still has plane view basically plane view,

2725
02:24:05,480 --> 02:24:09,000
Speaker 5: so as if something illegal is in plane view, we're

2726
02:24:09,000 --> 02:24:11,480
Speaker 5: in a place that we're allowed to be a public space,

2727
02:24:11,920 --> 02:24:15,520
Speaker 5: and we can plainly see without any search or manipulation.

2728
02:24:15,240 --> 02:24:16,440
Speaker 8: Like a county road yep.

2729
02:24:16,680 --> 02:24:21,560
Speaker 5: So think of you know, a traffic stop or something

2730
02:24:21,720 --> 02:24:23,800
Speaker 5: like that that a police officer does and they see

2731
02:24:23,879 --> 02:24:26,360
Speaker 5: contraband in the backseat of the car. They're in a

2732
02:24:26,400 --> 02:24:29,400
Speaker 5: public space. They have the authority to be there and

2733
02:24:29,480 --> 02:24:32,240
Speaker 5: stop that vehicle, and there's something in the car that's

2734
02:24:32,320 --> 02:24:36,680
Speaker 5: totally illegal, maybe a big kilo of cocaine. They could

2735
02:24:36,800 --> 02:24:40,000
Speaker 5: seize that in most areas without a search warrant. More

2736
02:24:40,000 --> 02:24:41,720
Speaker 5: than likely they're going to get a search warrant to

2737
02:24:41,720 --> 02:24:44,280
Speaker 5: protect them. And it's the same way with hunting and

2738
02:24:44,360 --> 02:24:48,199
Speaker 5: fishing rules. If we were to observe from a public place,

2739
02:24:48,200 --> 02:24:53,200
Speaker 5: we're allowed to be of true articuable violation occurring in

2740
02:24:53,240 --> 02:24:57,200
Speaker 5: front of us. We could enter stop that season to

2741
02:24:57,440 --> 02:24:59,680
Speaker 5: conduct a search of the property or anything. We'd have

2742
02:24:59,720 --> 02:25:03,760
Speaker 5: to sear sworn. Or if we just see someone harvest,

2743
02:25:03,879 --> 02:25:06,760
Speaker 5: say an antelope, on private property, we see no violation

2744
02:25:07,200 --> 02:25:09,680
Speaker 5: and we're in a public space. The thing you're thinking

2745
02:25:09,680 --> 02:25:13,119
Speaker 5: about is I couldn't enter that private property without permission

2746
02:25:14,040 --> 02:25:16,520
Speaker 5: just to check or regulate that hunter.

2747
02:25:16,920 --> 02:25:20,520
Speaker 1: You cannot, No, I would, because I would clearly see anything.

2748
02:25:20,520 --> 02:25:23,200
Speaker 5: I would have to see a violation or have permission

2749
02:25:23,240 --> 02:25:23,640
Speaker 5: to be on that.

2750
02:25:23,800 --> 02:25:27,160
Speaker 12: But if it was an analope season correct, a clear

2751
02:25:27,280 --> 02:25:31,720
Speaker 12: articulate violation, I could you know, an evolution like we're

2752
02:25:31,720 --> 02:25:35,880
Speaker 12: talking about, evolution of laws is is across the United States,

2753
02:25:36,000 --> 02:25:41,240
Speaker 12: game wardens in many states were giving basically an exigency

2754
02:25:41,360 --> 02:25:42,959
Speaker 12: clause to search and seizure.

2755
02:25:44,080 --> 02:25:47,200
Speaker 5: Think about the first eight game wardens in the state

2756
02:25:47,280 --> 02:25:49,520
Speaker 5: of Montana. Again, they lived up in a cabin in

2757
02:25:49,560 --> 02:25:54,040
Speaker 5: the middle of the woods. Transportation was was you know,

2758
02:25:54,520 --> 02:26:01,800
Speaker 5: uh not not very efficient at the time or whatever

2759
02:26:01,879 --> 02:26:05,440
Speaker 5: they had, so their access to the courts was pretty limited.

2760
02:26:05,840 --> 02:26:07,440
Speaker 5: And so if they're way up in the middle of

2761
02:26:07,480 --> 02:26:11,760
Speaker 5: the woods and the violation occurs, they were given the

2762
02:26:11,879 --> 02:26:15,040
Speaker 5: authority to search tents, coolers, all these things without a

2763
02:26:15,120 --> 02:26:18,480
Speaker 5: search warrant because one the evidence was perishable and two

2764
02:26:19,120 --> 02:26:21,520
Speaker 5: they didn't have good access to the courts and so

2765
02:26:22,120 --> 02:26:25,400
Speaker 5: they needed to be able to seize things on the spot. Well,

2766
02:26:25,520 --> 02:26:29,000
Speaker 5: technology has changed. You know, we have judges that are

2767
02:26:29,040 --> 02:26:31,200
Speaker 5: on call twenty four to seven. We can text and

2768
02:26:31,360 --> 02:26:36,200
Speaker 5: email them for search warrants and stuff. You know, our

2769
02:26:36,240 --> 02:26:40,720
Speaker 5: transportation we can easily get to the courts, get to

2770
02:26:41,760 --> 02:26:46,320
Speaker 5: our police stations or conservation stations very easily. And so

2771
02:26:46,520 --> 02:26:51,280
Speaker 5: as the technology has changed, the excuse or reason law

2772
02:26:51,360 --> 02:26:56,880
Speaker 5: enforcement uses to not get search warrants is diminished. And

2773
02:26:57,040 --> 02:27:03,199
Speaker 5: the courts have continually protected personal property at a higher value,

2774
02:27:03,280 --> 02:27:07,120
Speaker 5: particularly in the West in Montana, and so it's difficult

2775
02:27:07,160 --> 02:27:09,320
Speaker 5: for us to say, like, oh, we had to seize

2776
02:27:09,360 --> 02:27:11,920
Speaker 5: this thing because we couldn't get the search warrant because

2777
02:27:11,920 --> 02:27:14,280
Speaker 5: it's too inconvenient, because when it is pretty easy for

2778
02:27:14,360 --> 02:27:16,039
Speaker 5: us to get one, got it. And so in most

2779
02:27:16,120 --> 02:27:18,280
Speaker 5: cases now we're going to always defer to that search

2780
02:27:18,360 --> 02:27:22,280
Speaker 5: warrant to protect the integrity of the case so that

2781
02:27:22,440 --> 02:27:27,240
Speaker 5: there is no challenge to our search and seizures.

2782
02:27:27,920 --> 02:27:31,200
Speaker 8: It's a theme though that always comes up, right, it's

2783
02:27:32,600 --> 02:27:37,560
Speaker 8: does the regulation of a public resource wildlife stop at

2784
02:27:37,600 --> 02:27:41,200
Speaker 8: the private property boundary? And the answer is no, But

2785
02:27:41,600 --> 02:27:47,720
Speaker 8: how do you regulate that resource and then still respect

2786
02:27:47,840 --> 02:27:50,879
Speaker 8: all the other laws that are in place regarding private

2787
02:27:50,959 --> 02:27:52,720
Speaker 8: property and everything else.

2788
02:27:52,959 --> 02:27:55,320
Speaker 5: And we run into that, take enforcement out of it

2789
02:27:55,440 --> 02:27:58,480
Speaker 5: and talk about just general management, you know, to be

2790
02:27:58,600 --> 02:28:02,840
Speaker 5: able to do surveys or go and respond to issues

2791
02:28:03,120 --> 02:28:07,760
Speaker 5: on private property where wildlife exists, there can be contention

2792
02:28:07,920 --> 02:28:10,640
Speaker 5: there if the proper private property landowner is not going

2793
02:28:10,680 --> 02:28:13,480
Speaker 5: to allow permission. But for the most part, we work

2794
02:28:13,560 --> 02:28:15,960
Speaker 5: with landowners. We get that permission, you know, we let

2795
02:28:16,040 --> 02:28:18,080
Speaker 5: them know the work we're going to do, the legitimacy

2796
02:28:18,160 --> 02:28:20,280
Speaker 5: of it. But it can get in the way if

2797
02:28:20,320 --> 02:28:22,560
Speaker 5: you were to have a landowner that said no, no access,

2798
02:28:23,160 --> 02:28:25,320
Speaker 5: and now you have a population of wild animals that

2799
02:28:25,400 --> 02:28:27,480
Speaker 5: it's difficult to get to to manage.

2800
02:28:28,560 --> 02:28:31,520
Speaker 1: I want to close with a game and I'll go,

2801
02:28:31,600 --> 02:28:32,960
Speaker 1: and you go, and then anybody else wants to go

2802
02:28:33,040 --> 02:28:34,440
Speaker 1: and go. I'm gonna do a thing where I give

2803
02:28:34,480 --> 02:28:37,920
Speaker 1: you a tip as a game warden, and you give

2804
02:28:38,000 --> 02:28:42,160
Speaker 1: me a tip as a hunter angler. Okay, you already

2805
02:28:42,200 --> 02:28:44,879
Speaker 1: do this tip. So I'm speaking in broadly to the profession.

2806
02:28:45,920 --> 02:28:46,040
Speaker 7: Uh.

2807
02:28:47,640 --> 02:28:50,200
Speaker 1: I feel that you one of the reasons, like, like

2808
02:28:50,440 --> 02:28:52,160
Speaker 1: one of the things I appreciate about you as a person.

2809
02:28:52,240 --> 02:28:54,720
Speaker 1: I feel like you are a sort of like rooting

2810
02:28:54,959 --> 02:29:02,600
Speaker 1: for the people that you kind of you know that

2811
02:29:02,760 --> 02:29:05,240
Speaker 1: you're kind of rooting for people hunting and fishing. You're

2812
02:29:05,280 --> 02:29:08,480
Speaker 1: hoping they're having a good time, right, Yeah. And I

2813
02:29:08,560 --> 02:29:12,480
Speaker 1: feel that you are open to helping people interpret things,

2814
02:29:13,280 --> 02:29:16,600
Speaker 1: trying to help them be on the right side, right.

2815
02:29:18,400 --> 02:29:21,200
Speaker 1: I have had encounters where I just haven't felt that

2816
02:29:21,280 --> 02:29:26,080
Speaker 1: that was the case, and I appreciate that. I appreciate that, like, hey,

2817
02:29:26,160 --> 02:29:29,040
Speaker 1: heads up, or let me know if you have any questions,

2818
02:29:29,640 --> 02:29:33,599
Speaker 1: or you know that you're really good about public communication

2819
02:29:33,920 --> 02:29:38,800
Speaker 1: and clarifying and clarifying stuff. And I think that that's

2820
02:29:38,840 --> 02:29:40,560
Speaker 1: the thing that I know a lot of hunters and

2821
02:29:40,560 --> 02:29:44,080
Speaker 1: angers appreciate, is that to be in a spot where

2822
02:29:44,760 --> 02:29:46,680
Speaker 1: you know you when you run into a game board

2823
02:29:46,680 --> 02:29:49,760
Speaker 1: and you're gonna learn some things. You know, they might

2824
02:29:49,800 --> 02:29:51,520
Speaker 1: be like heads up. Like I remember Yanni had a

2825
02:29:51,560 --> 02:29:55,200
Speaker 1: guy one time say that hunter's orange you have is

2826
02:29:55,480 --> 02:29:59,280
Speaker 1: getting pretty old. I'm not going to give you a

2827
02:29:59,360 --> 02:30:01,879
Speaker 1: ticket right now, but if you wash that one more time,

2828
02:30:02,000 --> 02:30:03,680
Speaker 1: I'm gonna call that knot hunter's orange.

2829
02:30:05,280 --> 02:30:05,440
Speaker 10: Right.

2830
02:30:05,879 --> 02:30:07,160
Speaker 4: And like, I think that those.

2831
02:30:07,040 --> 02:30:09,880
Speaker 1: Exchanges are really valuable for people where you sort of

2832
02:30:09,920 --> 02:30:12,080
Speaker 1: get like, oh, these guys are not like trying to

2833
02:30:13,200 --> 02:30:15,560
Speaker 1: you know, trying to throw me in jail man. They're

2834
02:30:15,560 --> 02:30:18,240
Speaker 1: trying to be like a good referee, you know. So

2835
02:30:18,360 --> 02:30:20,680
Speaker 1: now you give me a tip, not me personally, but

2836
02:30:20,760 --> 02:30:24,560
Speaker 1: give hunters a tip. Like when you're walking up, how

2837
02:30:24,600 --> 02:30:26,279
Speaker 1: do you know when you're gonna have a good interaction,

2838
02:30:26,480 --> 02:30:27,880
Speaker 1: and how do you know when it's just not going

2839
02:30:27,959 --> 02:30:28,400
Speaker 1: to go good.

2840
02:30:28,760 --> 02:30:31,520
Speaker 5: Well, a good place to start is golden rule. Okay,

2841
02:30:31,879 --> 02:30:34,160
Speaker 5: you know, treat others if you want to be treated,

2842
02:30:34,600 --> 02:30:37,240
Speaker 5: you know, and that goes for us and the hunters.

2843
02:30:37,640 --> 02:30:41,120
Speaker 5: So we should walk up and treat people with respect,

2844
02:30:41,560 --> 02:30:44,000
Speaker 5: and they need to do the same, you know. I

2845
02:30:44,280 --> 02:30:48,000
Speaker 5: think it's real important for everyone in society to have

2846
02:30:48,120 --> 02:30:51,520
Speaker 5: an outward mindset to think of to be able to

2847
02:30:51,560 --> 02:30:54,959
Speaker 5: put yourself in the other shoes and understand their perspective,

2848
02:30:55,080 --> 02:30:59,120
Speaker 5: that you know the position they're in, and give them

2849
02:30:59,200 --> 02:31:01,680
Speaker 5: almost the benefit the doubt until there is no reason

2850
02:31:01,800 --> 02:31:04,120
Speaker 5: to you know. I have a lot of faith in

2851
02:31:04,240 --> 02:31:06,440
Speaker 5: my fellow man, a lot of faith in humanity that

2852
02:31:06,560 --> 02:31:08,119
Speaker 5: most of us are trying to do the right thing.

2853
02:31:08,440 --> 02:31:12,160
Speaker 5: So that's how I approach those interactions with hunters. I'd

2854
02:31:12,280 --> 02:31:15,080
Speaker 5: like hunters, anglers, the general public to approach us the

2855
02:31:15,120 --> 02:31:18,640
Speaker 5: same way. There's a lot of stories of people in

2856
02:31:18,800 --> 02:31:22,080
Speaker 5: authority doing bad things, but when you take the percentage

2857
02:31:22,120 --> 02:31:24,200
Speaker 5: of those compared to the percentage that are doing good

2858
02:31:24,280 --> 02:31:27,160
Speaker 5: staying out of the headlines, it's the same as any

2859
02:31:27,200 --> 02:31:29,959
Speaker 5: other industry there's bad doctors, there's bad lawyers, there's bad

2860
02:31:30,000 --> 02:31:33,240
Speaker 5: school teachers, there's bad humans. But most of us are

2861
02:31:33,280 --> 02:31:35,520
Speaker 5: doing the right thing and just trying to go day

2862
02:31:35,600 --> 02:31:37,800
Speaker 5: by day and do our jobs and make the world

2863
02:31:37,840 --> 02:31:40,959
Speaker 5: a better place. And that's what most law enforcer are doing.

2864
02:31:41,280 --> 02:31:44,240
Speaker 5: But so if we walk up and you start giving

2865
02:31:44,320 --> 02:31:46,600
Speaker 5: us a hard time or treating us with disrespect, it's

2866
02:31:46,720 --> 02:31:49,640
Speaker 5: it's gonna go bad for you. We're gonna switch immediately

2867
02:31:49,760 --> 02:31:52,840
Speaker 5: from education to paying close attention everything that's going on

2868
02:31:53,000 --> 02:31:53,240
Speaker 5: with it.

2869
02:31:53,320 --> 02:31:55,040
Speaker 1: And personal safety factors.

2870
02:31:55,200 --> 02:31:58,720
Speaker 4: Well absolutely, Oh hey here's six guys. They all got guns.

2871
02:31:59,600 --> 02:32:01,000
Speaker 1: See they're doing so.

2872
02:32:01,360 --> 02:32:04,800
Speaker 5: I just hey, we're all human. Treat each other with respect.

2873
02:32:04,920 --> 02:32:08,320
Speaker 5: That's that's huge, you know. Yeah, that's that's one tip.

2874
02:32:09,000 --> 02:32:12,200
Speaker 1: Uh yeah, Zimby got any more tips for him?

2875
02:32:13,200 --> 02:32:14,760
Speaker 3: I think he does a pretty good job.

2876
02:32:17,320 --> 02:32:20,640
Speaker 5: Sure, tell me, tell me what I'm doing wrong and nothing.

2877
02:32:21,080 --> 02:32:23,520
Speaker 1: Nothing. I just really, like I said, I love those

2878
02:32:23,840 --> 02:32:25,880
Speaker 1: h and I'm not you know, it's not it's not

2879
02:32:25,959 --> 02:32:29,080
Speaker 1: a leniency thing. It's just I guess I'm maybe more

2880
02:32:29,120 --> 02:32:32,080
Speaker 1: than some. I like the I like the feedback and

2881
02:32:32,200 --> 02:32:34,080
Speaker 1: the If Steve was.

2882
02:32:34,120 --> 02:32:38,320
Speaker 3: A game Ward, he would be a hard he would

2883
02:32:38,480 --> 02:32:43,080
Speaker 3: just be like I just man, I'm like, how old

2884
02:32:43,080 --> 02:32:43,480
Speaker 3: are you again?

2885
02:32:43,920 --> 02:32:44,840
Speaker 1: Sure you're not thirteen?

2886
02:32:45,400 --> 02:32:48,240
Speaker 5: Well, And as we talked about, there's been an evolution.

2887
02:32:48,640 --> 02:32:51,080
Speaker 5: You know, there's a starting of our profession to be

2888
02:32:51,640 --> 02:32:55,480
Speaker 5: very based on rules and enforcement. That's the way you know,

2889
02:32:55,840 --> 02:32:59,760
Speaker 5: wildlife conservation started. And now it's more on management. And

2890
02:32:59,840 --> 02:33:02,680
Speaker 5: there's also a huge education and mentorship part of it.

2891
02:33:03,320 --> 02:33:06,240
Speaker 5: And you know, I think the reason why we have

2892
02:33:06,360 --> 02:33:10,840
Speaker 5: such high compliance is because of that relationship we've built,

2893
02:33:10,879 --> 02:33:14,480
Speaker 5: that trust, that mentorship, and again that value that's been

2894
02:33:14,640 --> 02:33:18,760
Speaker 5: established or ingrained in society of we value this resource.

2895
02:33:18,840 --> 02:33:21,960
Speaker 5: It's a public resource, which means it's mine. I don't

2896
02:33:21,959 --> 02:33:23,840
Speaker 5: want to disrespect it. I own it. I don't want

2897
02:33:23,840 --> 02:33:26,360
Speaker 5: to break my own stuff, and I get really upset

2898
02:33:26,520 --> 02:33:29,120
Speaker 5: and protective when other people break my stuff. You know,

2899
02:33:29,240 --> 02:33:32,240
Speaker 5: we don't view wildlife as the government's thing. As soon

2900
02:33:32,280 --> 02:33:35,280
Speaker 5: as it becomes the governments, plenty of people are willing

2901
02:33:35,320 --> 02:33:37,560
Speaker 5: to destroy it. Look at for service signs out there

2902
02:33:37,600 --> 02:33:40,160
Speaker 5: all around the property. You know, they just have no

2903
02:33:40,360 --> 02:33:42,160
Speaker 5: respect for it. But if you start thinking about those

2904
02:33:42,200 --> 02:33:45,120
Speaker 5: for service signs as your own. If I shoot it,

2905
02:33:45,959 --> 02:33:48,360
Speaker 5: my tax dollars have to replace it, you might be

2906
02:33:48,400 --> 02:33:51,040
Speaker 5: a little bit more protective of it, you know, And

2907
02:33:51,120 --> 02:33:54,199
Speaker 5: that's same with wildlife. Every time someone poaches, they're taking

2908
02:33:54,280 --> 02:33:57,560
Speaker 5: an opportunity away from everyone at this table and everyone

2909
02:33:57,959 --> 02:34:00,160
Speaker 5: who enjoys wildlife, whether or not you're a hunter or

2910
02:34:00,280 --> 02:34:03,480
Speaker 5: just a wildlife watcher. And as long as we can

2911
02:34:03,600 --> 02:34:05,880
Speaker 5: keep that attitude instill it, I think we'll have very

2912
02:34:05,959 --> 02:34:07,800
Speaker 5: high compliance in our wildlife roles.

2913
02:34:09,040 --> 02:34:11,520
Speaker 1: Right. Well, my mess is to all the listeners out

2914
02:34:11,560 --> 02:34:16,279
Speaker 1: there is one man, there's a lot of information available.

2915
02:34:17,400 --> 02:34:22,879
Speaker 1: It's good to find out ahead of time information. When

2916
02:34:22,879 --> 02:34:24,280
Speaker 1: I was a kid, we did not do much of it.

2917
02:34:24,280 --> 02:34:27,920
Speaker 1: I remember being periodically shocked when someone says, you know,

2918
02:34:28,040 --> 02:34:32,520
Speaker 1: that's actually illegal, right all the time? Man? Yeah, So

2919
02:34:32,879 --> 02:34:35,160
Speaker 1: I think finding stuff out and not being afraid to

2920
02:34:35,160 --> 02:34:36,959
Speaker 1: ask que I don't think you should call them up personally,

2921
02:34:37,040 --> 02:34:38,000
Speaker 1: but just ask questions.

2922
02:34:38,160 --> 02:34:41,160
Speaker 5: Yeah. You know, the last big thing that I wanted

2923
02:34:41,200 --> 02:34:45,320
Speaker 5: to mention here is a plug for public participation in

2924
02:34:45,480 --> 02:34:49,720
Speaker 5: the enforcement of wildlife laws. So you know, every state

2925
02:34:49,840 --> 02:34:54,480
Speaker 5: has some sort of crime stoppers program where basically there's hotlines.

2926
02:34:54,520 --> 02:34:57,720
Speaker 5: Since tip hotlines set up for various crimes, drug dealings,

2927
02:34:57,840 --> 02:35:01,000
Speaker 5: wildlife poaching, all those type of things across the United

2928
02:35:01,040 --> 02:35:05,640
Speaker 5: States and more likely across the world, there's very few

2929
02:35:05,680 --> 02:35:08,080
Speaker 5: game wardens for how big this state is, and for

2930
02:35:08,240 --> 02:35:10,600
Speaker 5: how big most other states are, and how many hunters

2931
02:35:10,640 --> 02:35:12,720
Speaker 5: anglers are, and how much wildlife there is out there.

2932
02:35:13,200 --> 02:35:15,480
Speaker 5: Each game ward in Montana Patrol is a district on

2933
02:35:15,560 --> 02:35:19,240
Speaker 5: average of two thousand square miles. They can't keep an

2934
02:35:19,240 --> 02:35:22,600
Speaker 5: eye in everything, and so it takes public participation for

2935
02:35:22,720 --> 02:35:25,960
Speaker 5: us to be successful. And like we just mentioned, you know,

2936
02:35:26,280 --> 02:35:30,520
Speaker 5: you as the public, own this wildlife resource. The government doesn't,

2937
02:35:30,600 --> 02:35:34,200
Speaker 5: the elected officials don't, the agency doesn't. You own them,

2938
02:35:34,600 --> 02:35:37,840
Speaker 5: so take a hand in protecting it. What we need

2939
02:35:38,080 --> 02:35:42,760
Speaker 5: is good tips. We need public participation, people standing up

2940
02:35:42,800 --> 02:35:45,440
Speaker 5: when they see something wrong, they see appoaching happening, that

2941
02:35:45,640 --> 02:35:48,440
Speaker 5: call us and give us the information. In Montana, we

2942
02:35:48,480 --> 02:35:50,680
Speaker 5: have a program. We call it the Tipmont Program, Turn

2943
02:35:50,760 --> 02:35:53,640
Speaker 5: In Poachers Montana. It's a one eight hundred number, one

2944
02:35:53,680 --> 02:35:56,600
Speaker 5: eight hundred tip Mont Tipmont.

2945
02:35:56,879 --> 02:35:58,320
Speaker 1: Is that a pretty valuable tool for you guys?

2946
02:35:58,440 --> 02:36:02,280
Speaker 5: Absolutely absolutely. It's not a as you just mentioned, call

2947
02:36:02,400 --> 02:36:05,080
Speaker 5: and ask a question on a regulation line. It's not

2948
02:36:05,240 --> 02:36:08,920
Speaker 5: aligned to call and get your your bobcat tagged. But

2949
02:36:09,040 --> 02:36:12,640
Speaker 5: it's aligned to report tips that can be anonymous if

2950
02:36:12,680 --> 02:36:16,320
Speaker 5: you want on wildlife poaching, wildlife crimes that are current.

2951
02:36:16,360 --> 02:36:19,520
Speaker 5: It could be the restaurants, commercialization, could be someone taking

2952
02:36:19,600 --> 02:36:22,400
Speaker 5: a trophy animal at a district, all sorts of things

2953
02:36:22,480 --> 02:36:26,480
Speaker 5: you could report to us. You can remain anonymous. You

2954
02:36:26,520 --> 02:36:31,000
Speaker 5: can also be eligible for cash rewards if if there's

2955
02:36:31,000 --> 02:36:34,160
Speaker 5: a conviction or an arrest that occurs with that case.

2956
02:36:35,000 --> 02:36:37,959
Speaker 5: Some other states, interesting enough, like Utah are actually starting

2957
02:36:38,040 --> 02:36:43,360
Speaker 5: to award tags for turning in poachers. So in Utah, yeah,

2958
02:36:43,520 --> 02:36:46,959
Speaker 5: you can. You can turn in a poacher on whatever,

2959
02:36:47,160 --> 02:36:49,720
Speaker 5: an elk or sheep tag and as long as it's

2960
02:36:49,800 --> 02:36:53,199
Speaker 5: biologically sustainable and the department supports it, you could skip

2961
02:36:53,280 --> 02:36:56,000
Speaker 5: the cash reward and get a limited draw tag for

2962
02:36:56,120 --> 02:36:57,960
Speaker 5: your reward for that area for whatever species.

2963
02:36:59,000 --> 02:37:00,920
Speaker 3: Way to get a tag that's going to perk the

2964
02:37:01,000 --> 02:37:01,480
Speaker 3: people up.

2965
02:37:01,600 --> 02:37:04,600
Speaker 5: Man. Wow, it doesn't exist in Montana right now, but

2966
02:37:04,680 --> 02:37:07,000
Speaker 5: we have cash rewards. And two again, it's just it's

2967
02:37:07,040 --> 02:37:07,800
Speaker 5: doing the right thing.

2968
02:37:08,160 --> 02:37:10,880
Speaker 8: That kind of brings up like, is it entrapment if

2969
02:37:10,920 --> 02:37:15,720
Speaker 8: it's all civilians? Well, you know, to put that big

2970
02:37:15,800 --> 02:37:17,440
Speaker 8: buck out in Steve's yard, So.

2971
02:37:18,320 --> 02:37:20,200
Speaker 5: I think about I don't have the exact quote in

2972
02:37:20,240 --> 02:37:24,640
Speaker 5: my head, but Aldo Leopold wrote about how you know,

2973
02:37:25,000 --> 02:37:27,560
Speaker 5: hunting and fishing is a sport in a way where

2974
02:37:27,600 --> 02:37:30,280
Speaker 5: you are your own referee. You know, when you're playing

2975
02:37:30,320 --> 02:37:34,240
Speaker 5: football or basketball, there's a referee walking around following you,

2976
02:37:34,400 --> 02:37:36,440
Speaker 5: calling a penalty on you every time you do it.

2977
02:37:36,800 --> 02:37:38,600
Speaker 5: We don't have that in hunting and fishing. We have

2978
02:37:38,720 --> 02:37:41,000
Speaker 5: to hold ourselves accountable and those around us to do

2979
02:37:41,080 --> 02:37:43,920
Speaker 5: it the right way, to protect it for the long term,

2980
02:37:44,920 --> 02:37:49,199
Speaker 5: into limit abuse. And also we talked about what is regulation?

2981
02:37:49,280 --> 02:37:52,200
Speaker 5: Where do laws come from? Problems? So the more we

2982
02:37:52,360 --> 02:37:59,800
Speaker 5: can do the right thing ethically sustainable, the less violent,

2983
02:38:00,160 --> 02:38:03,040
Speaker 5: less rules will be created that will interfere with our

2984
02:38:03,160 --> 02:38:04,400
Speaker 5: enjoyment of this resource.

2985
02:38:04,840 --> 02:38:07,080
Speaker 1: Gotcha, don't push everything to this.

2986
02:38:07,640 --> 02:38:11,920
Speaker 5: Absolutely, yeah, yeah, just do it the right way. Help

2987
02:38:12,000 --> 02:38:14,480
Speaker 5: us out. But give us a call if you know

2988
02:38:14,640 --> 02:38:17,160
Speaker 5: some poaching that's a current in the area. Please, We

2989
02:38:17,600 --> 02:38:20,680
Speaker 5: really need those tips and we make some amazing cases

2990
02:38:20,720 --> 02:38:22,040
Speaker 5: based on citizen evolvement.

2991
02:38:22,959 --> 02:38:24,080
Speaker 1: Well, thanks for coming on, man.

2992
02:38:24,240 --> 02:38:26,720
Speaker 4: Absolutely, we are going to start that ask game warding up.

2993
02:38:27,680 --> 02:38:31,640
Speaker 1: It's people live, call in see how it goes.

2994
02:38:32,040 --> 02:38:35,560
Speaker 5: Well, I'm sure I could get western. Thank you very much,

2995
02:38:35,800 --> 02:38:36,920
Speaker 5: Thank you, Thanks Adam.

2996
02:38:37,560 --> 02:38:40,320
Speaker 8: This appt outro song was sent in by podcast listener

2997
02:38:40,440 --> 02:38:41,080
Speaker 8: Peter Block.

2998
02:38:41,920 --> 02:38:47,520
Speaker 3: I'm with Fish and Game. Be careful where you aim.

2999
02:38:48,760 --> 02:38:51,160
Speaker 6: Don't shoot a dear that's team.

3000
02:38:52,360 --> 02:38:53,160
Speaker 3: Don't try to.

3001
02:38:53,280 --> 02:38:59,600
Speaker 14: Shift the blame. We'll find out your name. We've got

3002
02:38:59,720 --> 02:39:05,279
Speaker 14: four attracks, m their planes. Don't bring your family, shame

3003
02:39:06,160 --> 02:39:07,240
Speaker 14: the police, bothers.

3004
02:39:07,320 --> 02:39:12,480
Speaker 11: Don't claim to fame. Don't claim that you were afraid.

3005
02:39:14,000 --> 02:39:39,120
Speaker 11: Don't miss with Fish and Game. Bye with Fish and Game.

3006
02:39:40,640 --> 02:39:46,120
Speaker 11: Don't fish with and sane. Don't make a bogus claim.

3007
02:39:47,240 --> 02:39:49,879
Speaker 11: We have helicopters and trucks with chains.

3008
02:39:51,040 --> 02:39:56,800
Speaker 14: Our officers are well trained osive like John Wayne.

3009
02:39:57,959 --> 02:40:04,840
Speaker 7: Don't bring the lawn. Find the bird you made. We

3010
02:40:05,040 --> 02:40:12,760
Speaker 7: have a reputation to maintain. Don't mess with me Shan Gay,

3011
02:40:21,520 --> 02:40:22,480
Speaker 7: don't mess with me.

3012
02:40:22,720 --> 02:40:27,000
Speaker 6: Should game. Don't mess with me should Game