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Speaker 1: Hey, Daniel, you believe in the power of words, right,

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Speaker 1: I hope words have power. I mean this podcast is

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Speaker 1: literally just words. It's our superpower. Yeah. But also, don't

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Speaker 1: you think individual words have a certain energy to them?

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Speaker 1: You know? I think some words are just like inherently funny,

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Speaker 1: you know, words like booger or weasel or podcast. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: those are goofy words. But some words have drama to them,

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Speaker 1: you know, like dragon or chaos. And the combination there

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Speaker 1: makes me think of things like dragon boogers or chaos

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Speaker 1: weasels a soul. I was thinking more like dragon weasels.

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Speaker 1: That's a scary word. I don't know if that's scary

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Speaker 1: or silly. But what about some science words? You think

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Speaker 1: some science words have power to them? I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I feel like this is a trap. You're always making

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Speaker 1: fun of our science names, you know, charm, cork, big bang,

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Speaker 1: those are charming words, indeed, But I mean, can you

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Speaker 1: blame me? Do you guys ever come up with dramatic

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Speaker 1: names wol names? I got something up my sleeve. We've

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Speaker 1: got something out of the dawn of time. All right,

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Speaker 1: this better be good? Oh? Yes, it is positively primordial.

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Speaker 1: I am Morehammad cartoonists and the creator of PhD Comics. Hi,

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Speaker 1: I'm Daniel. I'm a particle physicist, and I believe in

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Speaker 1: the power of words to entertain and educate. Welcome to

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Speaker 1: our podcast, Dragon Boogers, brought to you by two podcasting

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Speaker 1: Chaos Weasels. I'm just kidding. Welcome to our podcast Daniel

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Speaker 1: and Jorge Explain the Universe, a production of I Heart

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Speaker 1: Radio in which we use words to take you on

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Speaker 1: a mental tour of the universe. We take you all

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Speaker 1: the way back to the beginning of time, we take

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Speaker 1: you to the edge of time. We take you down

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Speaker 1: to the tiny particles and out to the largest things

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Speaker 1: in the universe, and we share with you our wonder,

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Speaker 1: our joy, our curiosity for how everything works and what

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Speaker 1: science is doing to try to figure it out today. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it goes straight from our brains and our hearts through

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Speaker 1: the Internet into your ears, and straight into your brains

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Speaker 1: and hopefully your hearts as well. That's right through that

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Speaker 1: weird system of tubes that is the Internet. We should

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Speaker 1: we should talk about that one day, Daniel Jorge explained

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Speaker 1: the tubes. But there are a lot of amazing things

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Speaker 1: out there in the universe. To see and to discover

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Speaker 1: and to learn about. And some of those things have

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Speaker 1: been around for a very long time. I mean, the

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Speaker 1: universe is it's pretty old or maybe pretty young, depending

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Speaker 1: on how you look at it, that's right, And there

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Speaker 1: are a lot of amazing things out there to understand. Stars,

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Speaker 1: exploding stars, collapsing, black holes forming. Some of these things

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Speaker 1: that you're already amazed by might have a very different

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Speaker 1: history from the one that your anticipated, Yeah, because I

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Speaker 1: think sometimes knowing the history or something gives you a

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Speaker 1: better perspective about it, you know, like if you know

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Speaker 1: where it came from or or what it was like before,

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Speaker 1: it kind of tells a lot about something. Yeah. Well,

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Speaker 1: that's basically the whole game of astrophysics, right. We are

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Speaker 1: looking at the universe, which is nothing but a series

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Speaker 1: of clues as to how the universe was made, and

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Speaker 1: from that set of clues, we try to unravel the

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Speaker 1: mystery of what came first and what came second, and

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Speaker 1: what does that mean about what's coming next? Right, So

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Speaker 1: the history of like how things were put together is

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Speaker 1: really central to all of science and all certainly all

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Speaker 1: of astrophysics, and I think one of the things that

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Speaker 1: fascinated most people about the universe is this idea of

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Speaker 1: black holes. I mean, black holes are just kind of amazing,

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Speaker 1: aren't Then there's so it's so weird and so kind

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Speaker 1: of a mysterious I know, and in so many ways.

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Speaker 1: You know, you have the fact that they first started

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Speaker 1: as a theoretical idea, like just a solution to equations

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Speaker 1: and pencil and paper. The idea that just this concept

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Speaker 1: is scratching of graphite on paper could predict crazy things

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Speaker 1: happening out there in the universe. That's mind blowing. And

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Speaker 1: then you know the drama in which they are formed,

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Speaker 1: the end of the life of a star, this cataclysmic laps,

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Speaker 1: the supernova, the precede to them. I mean, you couldn't

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Speaker 1: write anything better than that if you were fiction right now. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's there was drama in how they were discovered and

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Speaker 1: how they were thought of. I mean, Einstein came up

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Speaker 1: with these right in his equations and it literally just

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Speaker 1: came out in like math first. Yeah, it just came

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Speaker 1: out of the math. You know, you look at the universe,

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Speaker 1: you try to understand how it works. You write down

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Speaker 1: some equations that describe what you see, and then you

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Speaker 1: explore the weird edges of those equations, you say, well,

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Speaker 1: what else could these equations predict what happens in these

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Speaker 1: other weird scenarios? And then you go out and if

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Speaker 1: you believe those equations are real, that they're describing something

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Speaker 1: real about the universe, you go out and check those

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Speaker 1: predictions and see, well, is this just a weird, you know,

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Speaker 1: figure of math, or is this something that actually happens?

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Speaker 1: And so it's incredible when you've achieved that, when you

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Speaker 1: really described the universe, You've pulled back a layer of

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Speaker 1: reality and said, here are the fundamental underlying mechanisms, and

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Speaker 1: I can prove it by showing that I can predict

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Speaker 1: what they do. Do you think Einstein called them black holes?

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Speaker 1: Bread away or what do we call him when he

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Speaker 1: saw him on the on the math page. You know,

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Speaker 1: he saw these sort of singularities and they he predicted

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Speaker 1: that light cann't come out of them. Did he have

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Speaker 1: a name for them? Where you're right that the modern

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Speaker 1: idea of black holes certainly came out of Einstein's equations,

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Speaker 1: but the concept of a black hole actually predates Einstein.

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Speaker 1: The idea that you could have an object that had

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Speaker 1: so much gravity that light could not leave it. The

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Speaker 1: concept of that predated Einstein, so that the phrase black

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Speaker 1: hole was already sort of existing. Interesting, all right, And

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Speaker 1: we've also now have seen black holes, right, we have

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Speaker 1: pictures of a black hole, that's right. We've known for

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Speaker 1: a while that there are black holes at the centers

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Speaker 1: of galaxies, and we've seen that because we look at

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Speaker 1: the way the things swirl around and the gas and

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Speaker 1: the dust that emit from those galaxies. So you can't

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Speaker 1: see the black hole directly, but you can see the

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Speaker 1: sort of swirling chaos around it, you know, the chaos

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Speaker 1: weasel if you will, of the universe. And we've also

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Speaker 1: seen smaller black holes, black holes that are formed when

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Speaker 1: stars collapse, and we can see those sometimes vie lensing

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Speaker 1: when they pass in front of other stars. So black

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Speaker 1: holes are amazing and interesting and mysterious, and there are

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Speaker 1: a lot there's a lot about them when we that

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Speaker 1: we don't know that we don't know what's inside of them.

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Speaker 1: We don't know how big they can get, and how

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Speaker 1: the ones in the center of galaxies come together. We

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Speaker 1: also sort of don't know how old they are, right,

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Speaker 1: It's hard to tell because they keep so well, that's right,

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Speaker 1: they fit, they are pretty stable, they last a very

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Speaker 1: very long time, and you're right that we don't know

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Speaker 1: so much about when they were made. I mean, one

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Speaker 1: mode of making black holes is you have a star

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Speaker 1: and it collapses and then you have a black hole

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Speaker 1: about the mass of a star or several stars, etcetera.

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Speaker 1: Another is these black holes the very center of galaxies

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Speaker 1: that are millions of suns. But there's the possibility that

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Speaker 1: black holes might even be older than that. They could

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Speaker 1: even be older than the first stars. Really, oh man,

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Speaker 1: I thought black holes only four and from stars. But

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Speaker 1: you're saying it could be older than the ideal starts.

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Speaker 1: That's right. It could be that there were black holes

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Speaker 1: formed before there were even particles. Black holes formed in

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Speaker 1: the very first few moments of the universe predate matter,

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Speaker 1: pre date matter, yes exactly. And so what what what

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Speaker 1: what how could it have anything inside matter didn't exist?

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Speaker 1: I know, we'll dig into it. But these things go

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Speaker 1: by the awesome name of primordial black holes. That is

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Speaker 1: a cool name, all right. So then that's the question

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Speaker 1: for the episode today. Today on the podcast, we'll be

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Speaker 1: tackling the question what are primordial black holes? That it's

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Speaker 1: kind of a hard word to say, but it sounds

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Speaker 1: cool when you say it. Primordial, I know, primordial. It

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Speaker 1: sounds like primeval or something. You know, it sounds like

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Speaker 1: something is crawling out of a swamp somewhere. Yeah, it

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Speaker 1: feels like raw and like unformed and like, oh, my goodness,

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Speaker 1: predates things. Yeah, it's like from the age of giants. Know,

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Speaker 1: It's like if Thor had a black hole, it would

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Speaker 1: be a primordial one where the wild things come from.

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Speaker 1: Kind of exactly. I don't think it's a children's book

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Speaker 1: primordial black holes, but it's a really cool word. And

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Speaker 1: it also it touches on that mystery, right we right,

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Speaker 1: we don't know what happened in the first few moments

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Speaker 1: of the universe. We don't know how things worked, and

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Speaker 1: so it would be amazing if there were things left

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Speaker 1: over from those very first few moments. That would be fascinating.

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Speaker 1: So it's kind of a cool concept, and it's it's

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Speaker 1: kind of also kind of a recent concept. I feel like,

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Speaker 1: you know, like Iceland wasn't talking about primordial black holes, right, No,

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Speaker 1: definitely not. This is definitely a more recent concept. So

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Speaker 1: as usually, we were wondering how many people out there

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Speaker 1: had heard of these primorial black holes and or had

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Speaker 1: an idea of what they were. So Daniel went out

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Speaker 1: there into the wilds of the Internet to ask people

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Speaker 1: what are primorial black holes? That's right, I went out

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Speaker 1: into the primordial Internet, which consists of emailing our listeners

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Speaker 1: and asking them to volunteer to answer spontaneous questions. So

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Speaker 1: thank you to our listeners who participated. If you would

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Speaker 1: like to answer spontaneous questions and here your uninformed speculation

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Speaker 1: on the podcast, please write to questions at Daniel and

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Speaker 1: Jorge dot com. Before you hear these answers, think about

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Speaker 1: it for a second. Have you heard of primordial black holes?

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Speaker 1: Or would you know what to answer if asked this question.

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Speaker 1: Here's what people had to say. I've got nothing on that.

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Speaker 1: I would guess that it's from really early in time,

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Speaker 1: really large black holes. I would guess that it's probably

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Speaker 1: the ones that are at the center of the galaxies,

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Speaker 1: but I'm not sure. Well, like in are the oldest

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Speaker 1: black hole or the first one that was pretty yeah,

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Speaker 1: maybe one of the biggest black holes in the universe,

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Speaker 1: or yeah, the first ones. Primorial black holes are black

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Speaker 1: holes that were created by the original plasma of the

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Speaker 1: early universe, before expansion began to occur. As the matter

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Speaker 1: can collapsed and condensed, it became black holes that have

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Speaker 1: persisted since the dawn of time. Basically, I think the

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Speaker 1: black hole at the center of our galaxy is a

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Speaker 1: primordial black hole. Black holes in the center of galaxy

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Speaker 1: the biggest ones. A primordial black hole is a gravitational

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Speaker 1: well created at or just after the initiation of expansion.

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Speaker 1: My understanding is that they consist of mass magnitudes of

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Speaker 1: order larger than supermassive black holes. Perhaps gravitational waves from

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Speaker 1: these primordial black holes leaked through the multiverse and are

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Speaker 1: perceived by us as dark matter primordial black holes. This

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Speaker 1: is really kind of difficult, like, is it the original

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Speaker 1: black hole? Is it what started the big Thing? I

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Speaker 1: have no idea about that. Excited to find out, though

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Speaker 1: primordial black holes are black holes have formed way back

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Speaker 1: at the start of the universe, just after the Big Bang,

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Speaker 1: once inflation had happened and everything else severer pockets of

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Speaker 1: densities left that caused these black holes too to be created,

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Speaker 1: nigrew the hawk and radiation. It's unlikely that any of

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Speaker 1: them still exists. However, they could have caused the start

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Speaker 1: of all the other black holes within the universe. I

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Speaker 1: think black holes that were made during the Big Big Bang.

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Speaker 1: Maybe there they are still older. My guess is that

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Speaker 1: it's a cooler black hole that's like more special than

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Speaker 1: your average ones, so it got its own name. So

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Speaker 1: I think promoting your black holes are black holes have

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Speaker 1: formed shortly after the Big Bang, so that they're really

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Speaker 1: old black holes. But I don't know much more than that.

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Speaker 1: All right, these are pretty good answers. It seems like

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Speaker 1: the word definitely evokes feelings and people, you know, there

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Speaker 1: are like a lot of people say it's before the

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Speaker 1: dawn of time or before the beginning of time. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: the ooze that we walked out of. That was a

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Speaker 1: great answer, And I think that means that this is

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Speaker 1: well named, right, wouldn't you give this high mark? It's

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Speaker 1: like if people could guess what it means. Well, I

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Speaker 1: don't know what they are yet, Daniel, so anything that

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Speaker 1: the judgment is still out, maybe this is a better

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Speaker 1: word for him. I'm feeling a little bit of hesitancy

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Speaker 1: to say anything positive about physics naming, but I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: come back to this at the end of the episode.

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Speaker 1: I see this is the one you would submit to

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Speaker 1: the naming words. This one's high on my list. Yeah

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Speaker 1: you know, I see, we came up with one good name.

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Speaker 1: We're not looking for awards, We're just looking for, you know,

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Speaker 1: to no longer be criticized getting a lot of flak here.

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Speaker 1: He's looking for approval physicity. Want to prove all right,

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Speaker 1: well let's get let's jumb right into it, Daniel. What

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Speaker 1: is the primordial black hole and how is it different

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Speaker 1: than brand new black hole? Yeah, so brand new black

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Speaker 1: holes sort of garden variety black holes that you're familiar with,

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Speaker 1: are the ones formed when stars collapse. You have a

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Speaker 1: big blob of normal matter, you know, quirks and electrons

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Speaker 1: and all sorts of stuff gas and dust, and after

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Speaker 1: it's done fusing, gravity pulls it together. You get this

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Speaker 1: dense spot in space where light cannot escape. So that's

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Speaker 1: your your normal black hole. And the critical thing to

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Speaker 1: making a black hole again is having a very dense

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Speaker 1: blob of matter, so much matter that it's bent space.

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Speaker 1: It's bent space in this way that like the inside

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Speaker 1: of the black hole is cut off from the rest

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Speaker 1: of the universe. It's stretched space in such a way

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Speaker 1: that every path in the black hole goes deeper inside

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Speaker 1: none of them come out, And so you can visualize

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Speaker 1: it as light cannot even escape because the force of

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Speaker 1: gravity is too strong. But the more modern way to

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Speaker 1: think about black holes and gravity is about bending of space.

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Speaker 1: So these things create these weird structures in space that

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Speaker 1: there's no path out of even if you're traveling at

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Speaker 1: the speed of right, it's sort of bend space so

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Speaker 1: much that they kind of form a hole, almost like

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Speaker 1: a hole in space. Yeah, they sort of form a

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Speaker 1: hole in space. You can think of it like the

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Speaker 1: universe has become separated, and there's now this little piece

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Speaker 1: of the universe that there's only a one way door

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Speaker 1: into and once you go in there, you can't come

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Speaker 1: out to the rest of the universe. It's just impossible, right,

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Speaker 1: And like, like you said, it takes a lot to

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Speaker 1: form a black hole. I mean they're so extreme then

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Speaker 1: you know you can't just like it's hard to pack

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Speaker 1: that much mass into such a small space that you know,

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Speaker 1: you need something like a supernova or a star collapsing

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Speaker 1: for that to happen. Yeah, the key thing really is density.

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Speaker 1: You can make small black holes, but you need some

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Speaker 1: very strong force to squeeze the mass into a very

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Speaker 1: small space. The smaller the mass, the smaller the space,

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Speaker 1: and the denser it has to be. And black holes

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Speaker 1: can vary from fairly small masses to enormous masses like

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Speaker 1: millions and millions times the mass of the Sun. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: those are super duper black holes. Yeah, I think that's

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Speaker 1: the official extra califragilistic black holes. Yea, with the spoonful

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Speaker 1: of sugar. And this is the kind of thing we've

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Speaker 1: seen in the universe. We predicted it. We understand the

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Speaker 1: stellar mechanics, we understand the force of gravity, we understand

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Speaker 1: what goes into it. Our numerical similiar makes sense. We've

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Speaker 1: observed them. Everything sort of fits together, right, we can

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Speaker 1: you can see them like floating around in the center

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Speaker 1: of the galaxy. These are like well known. These are

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Speaker 1: well known, the well established. Nobody doubts that these black

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Speaker 1: holes exist. And we've counted them, and they exist at

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Speaker 1: roughly the rate you would expect. And you know, it's

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Speaker 1: a it's an awesome field of study, but one that

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Speaker 1: doesn't have that many surprises in it. But those are

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Speaker 1: stellar black holes. Those are black holes formed from matter

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Speaker 1: that was created after the Big Bang. Right, there's this

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Speaker 1: whole other category of black holes, these primordial black holes

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Speaker 1: that could have been made in the very first few

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Speaker 1: moments of the universe, right, because thanks were pretty crazy

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Speaker 1: at the beginning of the universe. Right, it was like

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Speaker 1: a loud and wild birth for the universe. That's right.

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Speaker 1: It was hot and nasty and wet, and you know,

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Speaker 1: you might think, well, what do you need for making

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Speaker 1: a black hole? You need a dense blob of matter.

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Speaker 1: And you know, early in the universe there was a

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Speaker 1: lot of matter and it was very dense, and so

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Speaker 1: you might expect there to be black holes made in

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Speaker 1: the early universe. It's not that surprising to think that

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Speaker 1: there will be blobs of matter capable of forming black holes. Right.

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Speaker 1: And in fact, this was a listener question we got

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Speaker 1: a while ago about as somebody asked, why doing the

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Speaker 1: universe just collapse into a black hole at the beginning

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Speaker 1: of time? How are we here? Amazing question? It's like,

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Speaker 1: we're here, how come? Right? Because things were so dense

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Speaker 1: at the beginning of time, why didn't it just all

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Speaker 1: collapse into a black hole? That's right. It's a great

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Speaker 1: question because things were really dense and One of the

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Speaker 1: ways we answer that question is that black holes and

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Speaker 1: need to be localized. You can't have the entire universe

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Speaker 1: collapse into a black hole if everything is perfectly smooth.

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Speaker 1: To form black holes, you need hot spots of density.

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Speaker 1: You need to black hole to form somewhere to pick

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Speaker 1: where the black hole forms, You need some spot to

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Speaker 1: be denser than another spot. If everything is equally homogeneous,

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Speaker 1: then the force of gravity just cancels out. It's almost

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Speaker 1: like if you're in a hole. You can't have holes.

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Speaker 1: You can't have a hole in a hole. It kind

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Speaker 1: of is that kind of kind of the idea, like

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Speaker 1: either everything's a hole or you only have little holes.

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Speaker 1: You can't have everything to be a whole because you

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Speaker 1: need extra gravity in one spot. And if everything is smooth,

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Speaker 1: then all the gravity cancels out. I mean, imagine a

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Speaker 1: perfectly smooth universe, even if it's filled with infinite matter.

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Speaker 1: There's no gravitational force on you because in every direction

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Speaker 1: the gravitational force is balanced by matter in the other direction.

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Speaker 1: So to create a black hole, you need a very

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Speaker 1: strong force of gravity, and that can only be created

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Speaker 1: by additional density, by extra density by hot spots. If

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Speaker 1: it's totally smooth. It doesn't matter how dense it is.

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Speaker 1: You can't form black holes, right, And so the idea

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Speaker 1: is that during the Big Bang, the whole thing can

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Speaker 1: turn into a black hole. But maybe there are things

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Speaker 1: were so intense that there that there maybe there were

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Speaker 1: hot spots during the Big Bang, the beginning of the

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Speaker 1: Big Bang, and maybe black holes did form, and that

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Speaker 1: in those early moments. Absolutely, and there had to have

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Speaker 1: been hot spots. If there weren't hot spots early on

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Speaker 1: in the universe, we wouldn't be here either, because the

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Speaker 1: universe is no longer perfectly smooth, right. A perfect smooth

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Speaker 1: universe stays perfectly smooth wherever there's no way to disrupt it.

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Speaker 1: So there had to have been hot spots, and those

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Speaker 1: hot spots seeded the formation of the universe and the

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Speaker 1: structure of the universe as we see it. The reason

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Speaker 1: we have matter here in not a billion light years

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Speaker 1: to the left is because of some hot spot in

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Speaker 1: the early universe which very slowly gathered together matter and

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Speaker 1: formed all this structure or billions of unions. But those

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Speaker 1: same fluctuations, which came from quantum randomness at the tiny scale,

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Speaker 1: could also have generated black holes. Right, that's exactly what

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Speaker 1: you need for a black holes, like an extra little

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Speaker 1: spot of density. And so it's natural the things that

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Speaker 1: you could have also gotten black holes formed in those

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Speaker 1: early moments when you have those hot spots of density

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Speaker 1: and and we're talking like the first few like you know,

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Speaker 1: bazillions of a second after the Big Bang. Yeah, exactly,

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Speaker 1: this is before you had a chance to even make matter. Right,

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Speaker 1: It's not like a question of is the matter made

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Speaker 1: out of corks or electrons? There's just hot stuff, right,

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Speaker 1: There is no matter at all. There's just like energy,

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Speaker 1: crazy energy density. We don't even really know what was there.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, this is very very early on in the

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Speaker 1: beginning of the universe, before even matter, what was cool,

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Speaker 1: before matter even existed. And so then you can ask

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Speaker 1: the fun question like, well of a black hole formed

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Speaker 1: before or matter, like what's in it? Right? What's it

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Speaker 1: made out of? What kind of stuff is there? Right?

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Speaker 1: How can it have anything inside of it? Well, we

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Speaker 1: don't know what it's made out of. It's made out

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Speaker 1: of whatever was in the early universe, which is unfortunately

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Speaker 1: still a huge mystery, like what was creating the inflation

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Speaker 1: of the universe. This grand expansion that stretched out these

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Speaker 1: tiny quantum mechanical fluctuations into larger fluctuations that gravity could

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Speaker 1: begin to see. We don't know, and so we don't

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Speaker 1: know if these black holes were made and what masses

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Speaker 1: they were made at, and what's in them. But it's

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Speaker 1: a huge mystery. You know, we don't even know what's

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Speaker 1: inside current black holes. Like if you take a star

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Speaker 1: and you squish all this stuff together to make a

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Speaker 1: black hole, are their corks in there still? Are they

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00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:07,200
Speaker 1: turned into something else? Weird? Like what's going on inside there?

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Speaker 1: It's one of the deepest mysteries of the universe. So

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Speaker 1: if you take a spoonful of like weird early universe

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Speaker 1: stuff and make a black hole versus a spoonful of like,

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00:20:15,760 --> 00:20:18,919
Speaker 1: you know, normal, boring, five billion year old star stuff,

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Speaker 1: do you get a different kind of black holes? Not

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Speaker 1: a question we know the answer to. All right, let's

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Speaker 1: get into these primordial black holes. How big they are,

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Speaker 1: what do they look like? And um, what do they

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Speaker 1: smell like? That's what I'm curious about. First, Let's take

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Speaker 1: a quick break, all right, Dannel, we're talking about primorial

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Speaker 1: black holes, and it sounds like the primorial suit kind

398
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Speaker 1: of well, I don't know what black holes smell like,

399
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Speaker 1: but these primordial ones are they're probably pretty swampy, you know,

400
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Speaker 1: in the suit. But you know, that reminds me if

401
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Speaker 1: you heard of the black hole no hair theorem, what

402
00:21:01,119 --> 00:21:03,600
Speaker 1: black holes essentially can't have hair, and so if this

403
00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:08,800
Speaker 1: thing is primoritial and swampy, it's also shaved clean. I'm

404
00:21:08,800 --> 00:21:11,240
Speaker 1: not making that up. Is a reference to dinosaurs, I'm

405
00:21:11,240 --> 00:21:13,040
Speaker 1: not making that up. There's a theory that says the

406
00:21:13,119 --> 00:21:15,560
Speaker 1: only thing that you can know about black holes is

407
00:21:15,600 --> 00:21:19,359
Speaker 1: their mass, whether they're spinning and they're total electric charge.

408
00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:22,000
Speaker 1: That's like the only properties they can have. You can

409
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Speaker 1: know nothing else about what's going on inside of it,

410
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Speaker 1: what matter is made to use it, whether it shaves

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Speaker 1: daily or you know, lets it self go hairy. And

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Speaker 1: I think that's why they call it the no hair theorem. Oh,

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Speaker 1: I see, It's like we we only know the bare

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Speaker 1: minimum and things like hair, we can't know those details

415
00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:39,400
Speaker 1: that that's right, we know the bare minimum, and that's

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Speaker 1: all the information that exists. You know. One question is

417
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Speaker 1: like is there information inside the black hole about what

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Speaker 1: was made? Or is that all the information that exists?

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00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:50,359
Speaker 1: And somehow the black holes who just like remove that

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Speaker 1: information from the universe. But that's a topic of another party.

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Speaker 1: And they're just born bald who knows, right, But all right,

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Speaker 1: so they're at the very beginning of the universe, in

423
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Speaker 1: the very early micro Brazilian seconds of the Big Bang,

424
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Speaker 1: there could have been black holes. And so this is

425
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Speaker 1: this is making me ask so many questions, like, you know,

426
00:22:10,160 --> 00:22:12,680
Speaker 1: how were they form, what were they made out of?

427
00:22:12,720 --> 00:22:13,880
Speaker 1: How can you have a Can you have a black

428
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Speaker 1: hole without any matter being around? Do they just have

429
00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:19,560
Speaker 1: pure energy inside of them? Yeah? Because you know, gravity

430
00:22:19,960 --> 00:22:23,159
Speaker 1: is linked to energy density. We think of gravity is

431
00:22:23,160 --> 00:22:25,840
Speaker 1: connected to mass, but really it's connected to energy density,

432
00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:28,840
Speaker 1: and mass is just one example of how you can

433
00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:31,720
Speaker 1: store energy. So you can make a black hole just

434
00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:35,000
Speaker 1: out of super intense radiation, right, as long as you

435
00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:38,159
Speaker 1: have enough energy density. It's energy density that bends space,

436
00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:41,080
Speaker 1: that creates what we call gravity. And so it doesn't

437
00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:43,520
Speaker 1: matter what kind of mass or energy it is, it's

438
00:22:43,560 --> 00:22:45,760
Speaker 1: just energy density, and it has it has to be

439
00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:48,960
Speaker 1: more dense than the things around it, right, Yes, exactly,

440
00:22:49,240 --> 00:22:52,159
Speaker 1: can just be like um, like having enough energy, it's

441
00:22:52,200 --> 00:22:54,280
Speaker 1: like yet to have more energy than what's around you.

442
00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:57,680
Speaker 1: So that you can bend space enough to make these pockets. Yeah, exactly,

443
00:22:57,720 --> 00:23:01,080
Speaker 1: because if there's also energy around you de bens based

444
00:23:01,119 --> 00:23:03,440
Speaker 1: the opposite way, then you don't get the curvature you need.

445
00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:07,359
Speaker 1: And one thing that's really amazing about primordial black holes

446
00:23:07,440 --> 00:23:10,040
Speaker 1: is that because they don't have to come from stars,

447
00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:12,879
Speaker 1: you can make them in other ways, which means you

448
00:23:12,880 --> 00:23:15,440
Speaker 1: can make them in a whole variety of different sizes

449
00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:22,520
Speaker 1: and flavors. Probably, no, there's the no flavor theor it's equivalent.

450
00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:25,720
Speaker 1: There's an equivalency there, all right, that's right, they only

451
00:23:25,720 --> 00:23:29,320
Speaker 1: come in dark chocolate budge. No. Because you don't have

452
00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:31,320
Speaker 1: to start from the star, you can make black holes

453
00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:34,480
Speaker 1: that are very very small, like mermordial black holes might

454
00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:39,520
Speaker 1: be as small as like one billion of Oh wow, alright,

455
00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:42,600
Speaker 1: so the big Bang is banging and there's fluctuations in

456
00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:45,840
Speaker 1: the energy there, but it's so intense that suddenly you

457
00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:48,320
Speaker 1: you can floor you can pop these black holes into existence.

458
00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:51,520
Speaker 1: And you're saying that they could be really small or

459
00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:54,119
Speaker 1: they can also be really big. Yeah, it just depends

460
00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:56,919
Speaker 1: on the mechanism that gives you the energy density. And

461
00:23:56,960 --> 00:23:59,880
Speaker 1: that's something that's just like wild speculation about one theory

462
00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:03,000
Speaker 1: had some idea for how the energy density profile looked,

463
00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:05,000
Speaker 1: and that gives you a bunch of small black holes.

464
00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:08,000
Speaker 1: Another one thinks the energy density profile look different and

465
00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:10,400
Speaker 1: that gives you a bunch of big black holes. Another one.

466
00:24:10,760 --> 00:24:13,159
Speaker 1: Most of them actually think that you get a whole distribution,

467
00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:15,320
Speaker 1: that if you make small black holes, you should also

468
00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:18,560
Speaker 1: make big black holes and intermediate black holes down from

469
00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:22,160
Speaker 1: like one billionth of a kilogram up to like thousands

470
00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:24,280
Speaker 1: of times the mass of our sun. All right, so

471
00:24:24,760 --> 00:24:28,199
Speaker 1: these primordial black holes there, they sort of make sense,

472
00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:30,960
Speaker 1: right because there was a big bang and why not.

473
00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:34,720
Speaker 1: But we can't just sort of go with there was

474
00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:37,320
Speaker 1: a big bang and whynot? That sounds like you could

475
00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:40,040
Speaker 1: used to explain anything. Hey, how came you ate all

476
00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:41,879
Speaker 1: the cookies? Hey well there was a big bang and

477
00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:46,919
Speaker 1: dot dot dot the cookie I mean, it just seems

478
00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:49,800
Speaker 1: so crazy. What was happening then? And you know, why

479
00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:52,040
Speaker 1: why not form black holes? So we can't just kind

480
00:24:52,040 --> 00:24:54,639
Speaker 1: of go by what what may do? A cartoon is?

481
00:24:55,720 --> 00:24:57,960
Speaker 1: Or hey, cham why did you climb out Everest? Well?

482
00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:03,199
Speaker 1: You know the big bang dot dot dot? Why? All right?

483
00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:05,280
Speaker 1: I need a T shirt that says that anyway, do

484
00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:08,080
Speaker 1: you want to hold that podcast? You know, a big Bang?

485
00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:11,920
Speaker 1: Why not? Sure? If it's about the Big Bang? Were

486
00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:16,120
Speaker 1: still in the Big Bang? The Biggest still banging? Well, well,

487
00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:17,919
Speaker 1: what do we think they exist? I guess that is

488
00:25:17,920 --> 00:25:20,160
Speaker 1: there is there more than just kind of the speculation

489
00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:22,720
Speaker 1: about what could have been happening back there. Yeah, I mean,

490
00:25:22,760 --> 00:25:25,439
Speaker 1: it's it's a fun idea. It makes sense that they

491
00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:28,520
Speaker 1: would exist. But if they do exist, they also might

492
00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:31,359
Speaker 1: solve a bunch of other problems. And this is a

493
00:25:31,359 --> 00:25:33,600
Speaker 1: cool way to discover something is to see, you, like

494
00:25:33,960 --> 00:25:35,800
Speaker 1: I have an idea for what might be out there,

495
00:25:35,960 --> 00:25:38,639
Speaker 1: and then think about what else it might explain. And

496
00:25:38,680 --> 00:25:40,600
Speaker 1: if you can sort of wrap up a bunch of

497
00:25:40,640 --> 00:25:43,560
Speaker 1: other things that we didn't quite understand then and tell

498
00:25:43,600 --> 00:25:46,359
Speaker 1: a nice story that all clicked together, then that's the

499
00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:48,600
Speaker 1: best kind of discovery. Oh, I see. We we have

500
00:25:48,680 --> 00:25:51,760
Speaker 1: these other mysteries in the universe, and so now if

501
00:25:51,760 --> 00:25:55,480
Speaker 1: we can link them to something like primorial black holes,

502
00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:57,680
Speaker 1: and it would all make sense. They would all make sense.

503
00:25:57,720 --> 00:26:00,520
Speaker 1: And one of the biggest mysteries out there the mystery

504
00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:04,000
Speaker 1: of dark matter. Right, we know that most of the

505
00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:06,199
Speaker 1: universe is not made out of the stuff that I

506
00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:08,399
Speaker 1: made out of you're made out of Most of the

507
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:11,479
Speaker 1: stuff is not made out of quarks and electrons. If

508
00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:14,240
Speaker 1: you take the budget of the universe, the energy budget

509
00:26:14,240 --> 00:26:16,600
Speaker 1: of the universe, only about thirty percent of it is

510
00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:19,879
Speaker 1: actually matter, most of its dark energy, which is pulling

511
00:26:19,920 --> 00:26:23,600
Speaker 1: the universe apart. But of that slice that's matter, right,

512
00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:28,360
Speaker 1: about eight percent of that slice of the whole universe

513
00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:32,840
Speaker 1: is dark matter, this mysterious form of matter that's holding

514
00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:36,520
Speaker 1: galaxies together and changing the shape of the universe. But

515
00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:38,760
Speaker 1: we don't know what it is, right, It's totally different

516
00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:40,720
Speaker 1: than our kind of matter. That's right. Our matter is

517
00:26:40,720 --> 00:26:43,160
Speaker 1: made out of atoms, which are made out of quarks

518
00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:46,119
Speaker 1: and electrons. So we call that baryonic matter because it's

519
00:26:46,160 --> 00:26:48,600
Speaker 1: made out of these particles that are familiar to us.

520
00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:50,920
Speaker 1: And what we know is that dark matter is not

521
00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:53,359
Speaker 1: made out of baryonic matter. It's not made out of

522
00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:57,080
Speaker 1: quarks in some weird configuration that just makes it invisible

523
00:26:57,119 --> 00:26:59,560
Speaker 1: and transparent, and so we think maybe it's related to

524
00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:03,320
Speaker 1: prem audeal black holes. So one candidate for dark matter

525
00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:06,919
Speaker 1: is primordial black holes, because what dark matter needs to

526
00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:11,200
Speaker 1: be dark, and black holes are dark. Dark matter needs

527
00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:13,720
Speaker 1: to be pretty stable because it's stuck around the whole

528
00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:16,760
Speaker 1: lifetime of the universe. And black holes are pretty stable, right.

529
00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:19,680
Speaker 1: They last for a very very long time, if not forever,

530
00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:23,400
Speaker 1: and they're hard to spot, and so they're a good

531
00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:26,400
Speaker 1: candidate for dark matter all this time, dark matter could

532
00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:29,400
Speaker 1: just be black holes. It could just be black holes. Yeah,

533
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:31,520
Speaker 1: I thought we like ruled that out. Well, people have

534
00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:33,280
Speaker 1: looked for it, you know, we'll talk about that. But

535
00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:36,840
Speaker 1: it's a pretty compelling possibility. It was never the number

536
00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:39,439
Speaker 1: one possibility. People were looking for a weird kind of

537
00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:42,879
Speaker 1: particle that we call a WHIMP, the weekly interacting massive particle.

538
00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:45,240
Speaker 1: But you know, that particle sort of had it to

539
00:27:45,359 --> 00:27:47,800
Speaker 1: day and that's come and gone. We thought it was

540
00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:49,640
Speaker 1: probably a WHIMP, and we looked for it, we didn't

541
00:27:49,680 --> 00:27:52,439
Speaker 1: see it. And now we're like hunting around in the

542
00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:55,240
Speaker 1: attic for other ideas of dark matter that might also

543
00:27:55,280 --> 00:27:57,840
Speaker 1: explain it that we didn't look at so carefully the

544
00:27:57,880 --> 00:28:01,000
Speaker 1: first time around. And now that the wind ideas sort

545
00:28:01,000 --> 00:28:03,240
Speaker 1: of lost, it shine a little bit more like digging

546
00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:05,399
Speaker 1: through the attic to find these other ideas and buff

547
00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:08,080
Speaker 1: the al Right, So maybe like dark matter is just

548
00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:11,040
Speaker 1: a bunch of black holes floating around in space, that's right,

549
00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:14,080
Speaker 1: And they would have to be primordial black holes, not

550
00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:16,520
Speaker 1: stellar black hole, because we know they've been around for

551
00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:18,520
Speaker 1: a long time. Yeah, because we know they've been around

552
00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:20,800
Speaker 1: for a long time. And also we know a lot

553
00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:25,040
Speaker 1: about how many quarks there were in the very early universe. Right,

554
00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:27,520
Speaker 1: We know that dark matter is not made out of

555
00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:30,000
Speaker 1: quarks because we know a lot about how many quarks

556
00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:32,639
Speaker 1: there were, because we do these really careful calculations, and

557
00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:35,960
Speaker 1: we see that if you had more quarks or less quirks,

558
00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:38,360
Speaker 1: you get a different mixture of stuff in the universe,

559
00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:41,680
Speaker 1: like more helium or more lithium or more hydrogen. And

560
00:28:41,720 --> 00:28:43,840
Speaker 1: that's the kind of thing we can measure really really well.

561
00:28:44,200 --> 00:28:46,400
Speaker 1: And then we can backpropagate and we say, all right,

562
00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:48,760
Speaker 1: given that we know how much helium and lithium and

563
00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:51,720
Speaker 1: nitrogen and neon there is in the universe, that means

564
00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:54,760
Speaker 1: there was a certain density of quarks in the early universe.

565
00:28:54,840 --> 00:28:58,160
Speaker 1: So for dark matter to have been around then, it

566
00:28:58,280 --> 00:29:00,040
Speaker 1: can't have been made out of quarks. It had to

567
00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:02,880
Speaker 1: be like taken out of the equation before quarks, right,

568
00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:06,320
Speaker 1: And that's why I would have to be primordial black holes,

569
00:29:06,360 --> 00:29:08,680
Speaker 1: So sort of like scoop all that energy in that

570
00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:11,160
Speaker 1: matter out of the pie before you got around to

571
00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:15,000
Speaker 1: make it, put it into these primordial black holes, and

572
00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:18,760
Speaker 1: then wait until humans are confused about the whole thing.

573
00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:25,320
Speaker 1: Interesting exactly, And so nobody's seen these things, right, primordial

574
00:29:25,320 --> 00:29:28,560
Speaker 1: black holes still theoretical, nobody has seen them. We'll talk

575
00:29:28,560 --> 00:29:30,360
Speaker 1: in a minute about how you could look for them.

576
00:29:30,680 --> 00:29:32,200
Speaker 1: All right, so then what what else do they do

577
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:35,040
Speaker 1: they explain? Possibly, well, the other thing they might explain

578
00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:38,720
Speaker 1: are these incredible black holes at the center of galaxies,

579
00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:41,840
Speaker 1: you know, the milky Way. It's very core is really

580
00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:44,800
Speaker 1: hot and dense in the stellar environment there is choked

581
00:29:44,840 --> 00:29:47,240
Speaker 1: with gas and dust and activity. But at the very

582
00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:50,880
Speaker 1: very core is a huge black hole. And that black

583
00:29:50,880 --> 00:29:54,320
Speaker 1: hole is called Sagittarius A, and it has you know,

584
00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:57,840
Speaker 1: the mass of millions of suns. It's enormous. It's like

585
00:29:58,000 --> 00:30:01,840
Speaker 1: an incredible object. And they're a big mystery because they're

586
00:30:01,920 --> 00:30:04,640
Speaker 1: so big. There's sort of like no way for them

587
00:30:04,680 --> 00:30:08,239
Speaker 1: to have come from stars almost right, Like it's like

588
00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:11,320
Speaker 1: to cramp together a billion stars that turn into black

589
00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:13,520
Speaker 1: holes is kind of hard, and it's a lot harder

590
00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:15,320
Speaker 1: than you might imagine you might think, well, doesn't the

591
00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:18,320
Speaker 1: big black hole get really powerful and just suck stuff in?

592
00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:21,480
Speaker 1: Isn't it sort of like a runaway process. Remember that

593
00:30:21,760 --> 00:30:24,040
Speaker 1: we are not falling into the center of the galaxy

594
00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:26,440
Speaker 1: for the same reason that the Earth is not plunging

595
00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:29,000
Speaker 1: into the Sun and the Moon is not crashing under

596
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:32,600
Speaker 1: the Earth, and that's rotation, and you have angular momentum

597
00:30:32,640 --> 00:30:35,400
Speaker 1: which keeps you from falling in. Even a really strong

598
00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:39,800
Speaker 1: force of gravity cannot overcome angular momentum and suck stuff in.

599
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:43,120
Speaker 1: So a really strong black hole, it's not that easy

600
00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:46,520
Speaker 1: for it to actually grow. It's mostly pull stuff in

601
00:30:46,520 --> 00:30:49,360
Speaker 1: into a decreation disk to spin around it really fast,

602
00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:53,120
Speaker 1: but to actually grow it doesn't happen very quickly. So

603
00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:55,640
Speaker 1: they do these studies where they say, can I make

604
00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:57,479
Speaker 1: a milky way with this black hole in it? Let

605
00:30:57,480 --> 00:30:59,400
Speaker 1: me see it with a couple of little black holes

606
00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:02,360
Speaker 1: and let it grow. And when they do those calculations,

607
00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:04,480
Speaker 1: they don't get a big enough black hole like the

608
00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:07,520
Speaker 1: black hole we get in our simulations are much smaller

609
00:31:07,520 --> 00:31:09,880
Speaker 1: than the black holes we see in real life. So

610
00:31:10,120 --> 00:31:13,160
Speaker 1: is the idea then that maybe that black hole center

611
00:31:13,160 --> 00:31:17,000
Speaker 1: of our galaxy was there at the beginning, like maybe

612
00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:20,960
Speaker 1: it was there before even matter formed around it. Maybe

613
00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:23,120
Speaker 1: it was one of these huge primorial black holes, and

614
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:25,280
Speaker 1: that's how it started. It started off big, exactly. You

615
00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:27,719
Speaker 1: gotta seat it with a big black hole, like maybe

616
00:31:27,840 --> 00:31:32,480
Speaker 1: galaxies were formed around huge primordial black holes, which then

617
00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:35,720
Speaker 1: gathered together dark matter and all sorts of normal matter

618
00:31:35,760 --> 00:31:38,680
Speaker 1: around it, seating that sort of structure. And if you

619
00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:41,080
Speaker 1: start from the big enough black hole, then it's much

620
00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:45,240
Speaker 1: easier to get to the kind of big supermassive black

621
00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:47,560
Speaker 1: holes that we see at the centers of galaxies. And

622
00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:50,720
Speaker 1: the other critical thing to understand is that these supermassive

623
00:31:50,760 --> 00:31:54,600
Speaker 1: black holes are not new. It's not like they've just formed.

624
00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:57,680
Speaker 1: We see them because they're very easy to spot because

625
00:31:57,680 --> 00:32:01,360
Speaker 1: they create intense radiation the form of quasars that we've

626
00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:03,600
Speaker 1: talked about, some of the brightest things in the universe.

627
00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:06,680
Speaker 1: We can see them from very far away, which means

628
00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:09,600
Speaker 1: we see very far back in time, so we know

629
00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:12,920
Speaker 1: that they were super massive black holes making quasars in

630
00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:16,520
Speaker 1: the early universe. So not only are they huge, but

631
00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:19,320
Speaker 1: they've been around a long time. So you know, that's

632
00:32:19,320 --> 00:32:21,600
Speaker 1: sort of smells like there's something else going on out

633
00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:24,240
Speaker 1: there in terms of making black holes. That's a wild

634
00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:28,200
Speaker 1: idea because that would mean that galaxies almost formed because

635
00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:32,600
Speaker 1: of primordial black holes. You know, like like galaxies form

636
00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:35,200
Speaker 1: where they were because that's where the primordial black holes were,

637
00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:39,600
Speaker 1: you know, like they were the pioneers for galaxy. And

638
00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:41,480
Speaker 1: it makes a lot of sense, right, the seeds of

639
00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:44,520
Speaker 1: structure of the whole universe come from what happened in

640
00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:46,680
Speaker 1: those first few moments, and if those first few moments

641
00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:50,520
Speaker 1: triggered the formation of primordial black holes, then that sort

642
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:52,520
Speaker 1: of you know, made the decision, like once you create

643
00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:55,000
Speaker 1: a primordial black hole is sort of a foregone conclusion

644
00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:57,480
Speaker 1: that everything else is going to like gather around, and

645
00:32:57,520 --> 00:32:59,680
Speaker 1: you're not gonna start a whole new party when you

646
00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:02,520
Speaker 1: already have a big one pumping away. So they almost

647
00:33:02,600 --> 00:33:05,760
Speaker 1: like where they form determined the shape and the look

648
00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:07,880
Speaker 1: of the universe. And the thing that I'll never stop

649
00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:12,760
Speaker 1: being amazed by is that those formations come from random fluctuations,

650
00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:16,480
Speaker 1: like quantum mechanical randomness in the very early universe, which

651
00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:20,400
Speaker 1: means that like this randomness determined the structure of our universe.

652
00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:23,240
Speaker 1: You run the same rules of the physics over and

653
00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:25,800
Speaker 1: over again, you get a very different universe. I mean,

654
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:28,160
Speaker 1: you might still have black holes and galaxies, but you

655
00:33:28,160 --> 00:33:31,640
Speaker 1: get galaxies in different places. Right, somebody's rolling a die

656
00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:35,000
Speaker 1: out there and making different universes every time. It's sort

657
00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:38,640
Speaker 1: of amazing every time, every time. Yeah, you know, there's

658
00:33:38,680 --> 00:33:41,320
Speaker 1: not that many places in the world where you can

659
00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:44,560
Speaker 1: see the effects of quantum randomness. Mostly it's just averaged out,

660
00:33:44,840 --> 00:33:47,000
Speaker 1: you know, the quantum mechanics everywhere, but mostly just sort

661
00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:49,240
Speaker 1: of balances itself out. It's like almost like we're the

662
00:33:49,280 --> 00:33:53,520
Speaker 1: evidence of quantum fluctuation. Yes, exactly. If there were quantum fluctuations,

663
00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:56,280
Speaker 1: there would be no structure at all. So we are

664
00:33:56,320 --> 00:33:59,280
Speaker 1: all the products of quantum fluctuation. So thank you to

665
00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:03,440
Speaker 1: quantum fluctuations for having made us, said the quantum physicists

666
00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:07,880
Speaker 1: made of quantum particles. All right, well, let's get into

667
00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:10,520
Speaker 1: how why else we think they're there, and and whether

668
00:34:10,600 --> 00:34:12,800
Speaker 1: or not they're real and whether we can maybe actually

669
00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:16,839
Speaker 1: see or smell and touch a primordial black hole. But first,

670
00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:29,640
Speaker 1: let's take another quick break. Right then, we're talking about

671
00:34:29,680 --> 00:34:32,680
Speaker 1: primordial black holes, and you know, they it sounds like

672
00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:35,040
Speaker 1: maybe they could explain a lot of mysteries like how

673
00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:37,080
Speaker 1: the universe formed the way it did and where dark

674
00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:39,439
Speaker 1: matter comes from them. And so we think they're there

675
00:34:39,560 --> 00:34:42,359
Speaker 1: because not just because of these series and because they

676
00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:45,640
Speaker 1: could explain these things, but we're also kind of seeing

677
00:34:45,719 --> 00:34:47,840
Speaker 1: them kind of in a way, or we're seeing clues

678
00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:49,919
Speaker 1: that they might exist. Yeah, we see lots of things

679
00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:53,440
Speaker 1: that are easier to explain if primordial black holes exist,

680
00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:56,120
Speaker 1: which is sort of very indirect argument, but you know,

681
00:34:56,360 --> 00:34:58,080
Speaker 1: the kind of thing you want to see if these

682
00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:01,360
Speaker 1: things are real. And another piece of evidence is that

683
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:06,280
Speaker 1: we sort of see more black hole collisions than we expected. Remember,

684
00:35:06,360 --> 00:35:09,919
Speaker 1: we turned on this incredible device a few years ago

685
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:13,560
Speaker 1: called Ligo, which looks for gravitational waves, so kind of

686
00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:17,600
Speaker 1: shaking of space and time that only happens when incredibly

687
00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:21,560
Speaker 1: massive objects orbit each other and then collide like black holes.

688
00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:23,600
Speaker 1: And the thing to understand is when they turned this

689
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:26,200
Speaker 1: thing on and they made it powerful, they made it

690
00:35:26,239 --> 00:35:29,080
Speaker 1: sensitive enough to see this kind of shaking of the universe,

691
00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:32,200
Speaker 1: they didn't know how often the universe got shook. Like

692
00:35:32,280 --> 00:35:34,680
Speaker 1: they built this device that could see these waves, but

693
00:35:34,719 --> 00:35:36,960
Speaker 1: they didn't know if the waves were everywhere or just

694
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:39,759
Speaker 1: like once in a million years, right, it was sort

695
00:35:39,800 --> 00:35:43,080
Speaker 1: of built to listening for black holes crashing into each other,

696
00:35:43,080 --> 00:35:45,120
Speaker 1: but we had no idea how often that happened. Yeah,

697
00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:47,759
Speaker 1: And there were calculations all over the place. And the

698
00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:49,600
Speaker 1: amazing thing is that, you know, they turned this thing

699
00:35:49,640 --> 00:35:52,640
Speaker 1: on and they found one basically right away, like they

700
00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:54,799
Speaker 1: were still doing a lot of their calibrations and test

701
00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:58,480
Speaker 1: run when they saw a golden golden collision come in

702
00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:01,760
Speaker 1: and like the first weekend, like the best case scenario

703
00:36:01,880 --> 00:36:04,359
Speaker 1: for science, you know, and so it's like it's it's

704
00:36:04,360 --> 00:36:08,360
Speaker 1: happening more often than they expected, like like you know,

705
00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:10,719
Speaker 1: there's black holes crashing all over the place kind of yeah,

706
00:36:10,760 --> 00:36:12,680
Speaker 1: And what that means is that there are more black

707
00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:15,520
Speaker 1: holes than they thought in the particular sort of mass

708
00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:18,120
Speaker 1: range that they can see them. Like they're good at

709
00:36:18,120 --> 00:36:20,719
Speaker 1: seeing collisions of black holes that are like ten to

710
00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:23,719
Speaker 1: a hundred times the mass of the sun, and there

711
00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:26,480
Speaker 1: are more of those than they think. Like you can

712
00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:28,560
Speaker 1: get black holes about the mass of the sun or

713
00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:30,520
Speaker 1: five times the mass of the sun, but they get

714
00:36:30,560 --> 00:36:33,040
Speaker 1: black holes like fifty or a hundred times the mass

715
00:36:33,040 --> 00:36:35,319
Speaker 1: of the sun. Is not that easy, as we were

716
00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:38,759
Speaker 1: saying before, because there aren't stars that big and black

717
00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:41,080
Speaker 1: holes have to merge to make them, and so we're

718
00:36:41,120 --> 00:36:45,000
Speaker 1: seeing more of those than we would expect, which again suggests, hey,

719
00:36:45,239 --> 00:36:48,720
Speaker 1: maybe these are primordial black Maybe the universe is littered

720
00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:52,239
Speaker 1: with them. Yeah, maybe even in our own backyard. There

721
00:36:52,239 --> 00:36:54,120
Speaker 1: could there could be one here in our Solar system.

722
00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:55,880
Speaker 1: There could be one in our Solar system. And this

723
00:36:55,920 --> 00:36:59,200
Speaker 1: is very speculative, but super fun. We did a podcast

724
00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:02,120
Speaker 1: episode last year or about planet nine, like when you

725
00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:04,360
Speaker 1: look at the orbit of the outer planets, there's some

726
00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:07,000
Speaker 1: weird things that we don't understand that are sort of

727
00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:11,239
Speaker 1: suggestive of another gravitational body out there, something out there

728
00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:14,120
Speaker 1: that's tugging on these things that's making their orbits a

729
00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:17,040
Speaker 1: little weird. And it's not conclusive at all, but it

730
00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:20,399
Speaker 1: sort of makes more sense if you add one more planet. Right,

731
00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:23,799
Speaker 1: problem is we haven't seen that planet, like where is it?

732
00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:27,879
Speaker 1: You know, even Pluto we can see. And so one

733
00:37:27,960 --> 00:37:31,239
Speaker 1: super fun idea is that maybe it's like it's invisible.

734
00:37:31,360 --> 00:37:34,200
Speaker 1: Maybe it's invisible, like we can feel it, it's affecting

735
00:37:34,239 --> 00:37:36,120
Speaker 1: the orbit of the other planets in US, but you

736
00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:39,040
Speaker 1: can't see it. So maybe maybe it's a black hole. Yeah,

737
00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:41,960
Speaker 1: And maybe it's a small black hole. In this case,

738
00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:43,920
Speaker 1: to have the right mass, it would have to be

739
00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:46,600
Speaker 1: really small. I mean, it's still be pretty massive. But

740
00:37:46,680 --> 00:37:48,759
Speaker 1: we're not talking mass to the Sun. We're talking about

741
00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:52,279
Speaker 1: an object about the size of a tennis ball, and

742
00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:55,400
Speaker 1: like that's orbiting our Sun. It's like a black like

743
00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:58,319
Speaker 1: our Solar system. You're saying could have a tennis ball

744
00:37:58,400 --> 00:38:01,880
Speaker 1: black hole orbiting around it, like it has planets orbiting

745
00:38:01,880 --> 00:38:05,600
Speaker 1: around it, exactly, And a black hole that's small would

746
00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:09,960
Speaker 1: still have enough gravitational power to change the orbits of

747
00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:13,000
Speaker 1: the planet's enough to tweak them to make that visible

748
00:38:13,040 --> 00:38:15,719
Speaker 1: from Earth. So if there were such a black hole,

749
00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:18,200
Speaker 1: this is exactly what it would look like. That doesn't

750
00:38:18,200 --> 00:38:20,520
Speaker 1: mean it's there, but it's tanted right. And so the

751
00:38:20,560 --> 00:38:22,600
Speaker 1: idea I guess is that this black hole in our

752
00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:27,160
Speaker 1: Solar system didn't form like after the Solar system. It

753
00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:32,760
Speaker 1: almost predates the Solar System and predates you know, matter itself.

754
00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:35,640
Speaker 1: Like it's maybe the universe is literal with these tennis

755
00:38:35,640 --> 00:38:38,440
Speaker 1: balls black holes, and we just happened to catch one

756
00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:40,239
Speaker 1: in our Solar system. Yeah, maybe we should have called

757
00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:42,960
Speaker 1: them like indigenous black holes because they were here before

758
00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:44,560
Speaker 1: we got here right there, like, hey, this is my

759
00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:47,080
Speaker 1: solar system. What are you guys doing setting up camps?

760
00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:50,680
Speaker 1: This colonizing my part of space. Predates the atoms in

761
00:38:50,719 --> 00:38:53,840
Speaker 1: the Sun. Yeah, it predates the atoms in the STU exactly.

762
00:38:54,280 --> 00:38:56,279
Speaker 1: And so it could have been here and just fell

763
00:38:56,400 --> 00:38:58,680
Speaker 1: into orbit around the Sun. It could have been captured,

764
00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:00,719
Speaker 1: you know, it could be wandering the universe and then

765
00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:04,600
Speaker 1: been captured. The zillion possibilities. But it's got stories to tell.

766
00:39:04,680 --> 00:39:08,240
Speaker 1: And yeah, it's seen the birth of our sources. Yeah,

767
00:39:08,280 --> 00:39:11,080
Speaker 1: it was, It exists. It has embarrassing baby pictures about

768
00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:16,160
Speaker 1: our son. It knows you when you were small. All right, Um,

769
00:39:16,239 --> 00:39:19,759
Speaker 1: so then let's cover really quickly here whether or not

770
00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:23,120
Speaker 1: these primorial holes are real. I mean, how we seen them?

771
00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:25,719
Speaker 1: How could we see them? What? What are we doing

772
00:39:25,760 --> 00:39:28,479
Speaker 1: to confirm their existence? Well, we have not seen any

773
00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:31,719
Speaker 1: evidence for their existence yet, which is disappointing, except maybe

774
00:39:31,719 --> 00:39:34,799
Speaker 1: this planet nine, right or you know, indirectly as a

775
00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:37,759
Speaker 1: reason for the ones at the center of galaxies. Yeah,

776
00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:39,960
Speaker 1: we we see things that would make more sense if

777
00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:43,279
Speaker 1: primorial black holes existed, but there could also be other explanations.

778
00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:45,319
Speaker 1: It's very indirect, but we'd like to do is see

779
00:39:45,360 --> 00:39:48,160
Speaker 1: them sort of much more directly, see something which has

780
00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:51,000
Speaker 1: to be a primorial black hole. And this one of

781
00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:54,440
Speaker 1: the origins of this whole idea was Stephen Hawking thinking

782
00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:58,319
Speaker 1: about black holes evaporating, and he realized that, you know,

783
00:39:58,360 --> 00:40:00,879
Speaker 1: black holes might not live forever or they give off

784
00:40:00,920 --> 00:40:04,120
Speaker 1: this radiation. But the key thing about talking radiation is

785
00:40:04,160 --> 00:40:07,560
Speaker 1: that the bigger the black hole, the less it radiates.

786
00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:11,279
Speaker 1: So a super huge black hole, anything bigger than like

787
00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:15,239
Speaker 1: ten to the twelve ms, will take longer than the

788
00:40:15,239 --> 00:40:18,239
Speaker 1: age of the universe to evaporate, so they basically live

789
00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:21,520
Speaker 1: forever because they have so much stuff in them. If

790
00:40:21,640 --> 00:40:23,440
Speaker 1: so much stuff in them, but as a black hole

791
00:40:23,480 --> 00:40:26,120
Speaker 1: gets smaller it has much less mass, then it actually

792
00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:29,839
Speaker 1: radiates more. And so if you're less mass, you radiate more,

793
00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:32,760
Speaker 1: which means you lose mass, which means you're really even more,

794
00:40:32,880 --> 00:40:36,160
Speaker 1: which means you lose even more mass. And so black

795
00:40:36,200 --> 00:40:38,000
Speaker 1: holes around like ten to the ten or ten to

796
00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:42,440
Speaker 1: the eleven kilograms, they can radiate away and actually disappear

797
00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:47,080
Speaker 1: on the time scale about a billion years, which helps

798
00:40:47,160 --> 00:40:49,719
Speaker 1: us because well, wouldn't you like to see a black hole?

799
00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:53,279
Speaker 1: Dye did not? If I have to wait a billion years. Well,

800
00:40:53,320 --> 00:40:56,439
Speaker 1: but we're fourteen billion years in, which means if black

801
00:40:56,480 --> 00:40:59,320
Speaker 1: holes are living about a billion years, then they should

802
00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:01,440
Speaker 1: be dying all the time. We should be looking around

803
00:41:01,440 --> 00:41:03,960
Speaker 1: and seeing this happen. So you're saying, we could we

804
00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:06,799
Speaker 1: could see a black hole dye or what will we see?

805
00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:09,160
Speaker 1: We would see the like the sputtering, the last few

806
00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:11,520
Speaker 1: gasps or what. Well, it will not go out with

807
00:41:11,520 --> 00:41:14,640
Speaker 1: a whimper. Remember, it evaporates more rapidly as it gets

808
00:41:14,640 --> 00:41:18,480
Speaker 1: to lower mass, so the last few moments are very spectacular.

809
00:41:18,719 --> 00:41:21,240
Speaker 1: That's when it's radiating even more than it has before.

810
00:41:21,600 --> 00:41:23,920
Speaker 1: So they would go out in this big flash of

811
00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:27,239
Speaker 1: light essentially like starts off very gradually, and then it

812
00:41:27,239 --> 00:41:29,400
Speaker 1: would blow all of its energy in the last moments,

813
00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:32,759
Speaker 1: you know, in this runaway evaporation. It would be very spectacular.

814
00:41:32,920 --> 00:41:36,520
Speaker 1: Oh wow, like um, the last gasp of a black hole. Yeah,

815
00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:39,200
Speaker 1: and it would be very characteristic sort of radiation. And

816
00:41:39,239 --> 00:41:41,719
Speaker 1: so we've looked for this, and we've sent our satellites

817
00:41:41,719 --> 00:41:43,799
Speaker 1: out to look in space to see if we can

818
00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:46,120
Speaker 1: see these kind of flashes. And you might expect to

819
00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:47,480
Speaker 1: see them sort of like in the edge of the

820
00:41:47,480 --> 00:41:50,520
Speaker 1: galaxy where it's otherwise dark, but we haven't seen any

821
00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:52,080
Speaker 1: of them, Like, we know what kind of radiation they

822
00:41:52,080 --> 00:41:54,319
Speaker 1: would give off, because black holes give off a very

823
00:41:54,360 --> 00:41:58,200
Speaker 1: particular kind of radiation, this hawking radiation of a certain spectrum,

824
00:41:58,719 --> 00:42:00,319
Speaker 1: so we would expect to see it in the case

825
00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:03,440
Speaker 1: of temperature of the black hole at the moment, so

826
00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:06,040
Speaker 1: it would look like nothing else I see. So is

827
00:42:06,040 --> 00:42:08,120
Speaker 1: the idea then that, you know, if the universe is

828
00:42:08,200 --> 00:42:11,000
Speaker 1: littered with primoritial black holes, we should see a whole

829
00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:13,239
Speaker 1: bunch of them dying all the time. Yeah, that's exactly right.

830
00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:15,240
Speaker 1: They were all born big bang. But if the last

831
00:42:15,440 --> 00:42:18,480
Speaker 1: you know, billions of years, we've been around billions of years,

832
00:42:18,520 --> 00:42:20,480
Speaker 1: and so we should see some of them fuzzing out

833
00:42:20,520 --> 00:42:22,959
Speaker 1: of existence. But so far we haven't seen. We haven't

834
00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:25,200
Speaker 1: been seen there. We have not and we've looked pretty

835
00:42:25,239 --> 00:42:27,839
Speaker 1: carefully and we haven't seen those. So that tells us

836
00:42:28,160 --> 00:42:30,759
Speaker 1: that if there are primordial black holes sort of a

837
00:42:31,040 --> 00:42:33,839
Speaker 1: very low mass, you know, less than a billion kilograms,

838
00:42:34,160 --> 00:42:36,640
Speaker 1: then there aren't very many. We can still have one

839
00:42:36,719 --> 00:42:38,800
Speaker 1: the size of a tennis ball in our solar system,

840
00:42:39,040 --> 00:42:41,959
Speaker 1: but maybe it's not common. Yeah, and that have small

841
00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:44,600
Speaker 1: that's right, and the small ones therefore cannot explain the

842
00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:47,000
Speaker 1: dark matter in the universe. There's just not enough of them.

843
00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:49,520
Speaker 1: If they do exist, there's not enough of the small

844
00:42:49,600 --> 00:42:52,719
Speaker 1: mass ones to explain the dark matter. But you know,

845
00:42:53,239 --> 00:42:56,439
Speaker 1: maybe there are heavier black holes. Maybe there's really big

846
00:42:56,480 --> 00:42:58,560
Speaker 1: ones out there, so we have other ways to look

847
00:42:58,560 --> 00:43:00,960
Speaker 1: for those, or maybe all they of ones already died

848
00:43:01,080 --> 00:43:03,120
Speaker 1: or something precisely, and so we could look around to

849
00:43:03,160 --> 00:43:06,680
Speaker 1: see if they're heavier mass black holes, and we have

850
00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:09,920
Speaker 1: other ways to do that. Like if these black holes exist,

851
00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:12,879
Speaker 1: then we should see lensing effects. We should see them

852
00:43:12,880 --> 00:43:16,360
Speaker 1: like passing in front of stars and galaxies and and

853
00:43:16,480 --> 00:43:19,200
Speaker 1: blocking the light from the more, distorting the light from

854
00:43:19,239 --> 00:43:21,880
Speaker 1: the right, just like dark matter. Wouldn't that account for

855
00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:24,800
Speaker 1: how dark matter does that? Just like dark matter exactly,

856
00:43:24,960 --> 00:43:28,000
Speaker 1: except dark matters so far we thought it is more diffused.

857
00:43:28,040 --> 00:43:31,400
Speaker 1: We've only detected dark matter and like really big effects

858
00:43:31,560 --> 00:43:36,560
Speaker 1: gravitational effects and big clumps of dark matter lensing background galaxies,

859
00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:39,600
Speaker 1: for example. What we're looking for here is like micro lensing,

860
00:43:39,680 --> 00:43:43,279
Speaker 1: like a really tiny spot of something passing in front

861
00:43:43,280 --> 00:43:46,520
Speaker 1: of an object and distorting it, not a big diffused cloud.

862
00:43:47,120 --> 00:43:49,600
Speaker 1: If dark matter really is made of primordial black holes.

863
00:43:49,760 --> 00:43:52,239
Speaker 1: It should be made of these tiny little spots that

864
00:43:52,320 --> 00:43:55,080
Speaker 1: we can see these micro lensing effects, because I guess

865
00:43:55,480 --> 00:43:57,600
Speaker 1: you're talking about the black holes now that are about

866
00:43:57,600 --> 00:44:00,439
Speaker 1: the size of a planet or like giant asteroid. Yeah,

867
00:44:00,640 --> 00:44:04,040
Speaker 1: giant asteroids or larger, anything larger than that, we should

868
00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:07,040
Speaker 1: see these lensing effects. And if they're even larger, if

869
00:44:07,040 --> 00:44:10,440
Speaker 1: they're like really super crazy massive, then they would have

870
00:44:10,480 --> 00:44:13,680
Speaker 1: big effects on the structure of the galaxy itself and

871
00:44:13,719 --> 00:44:17,640
Speaker 1: the relationship between galaxies. Like if they were just like ginormous,

872
00:44:17,719 --> 00:44:20,920
Speaker 1: like mind blowing me, like billions of suns, then they

873
00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:23,000
Speaker 1: would distort the whole shape of the universe and we

874
00:44:23,040 --> 00:44:25,680
Speaker 1: would see that for sure. So we know they're not

875
00:44:25,719 --> 00:44:29,200
Speaker 1: like ridunculously big, and we're pretty sure that there aren't

876
00:44:29,440 --> 00:44:32,719
Speaker 1: really massive primordial black holes out there because we would

877
00:44:32,719 --> 00:44:35,480
Speaker 1: see these micro lensing effects. So we've ruled out the

878
00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:38,320
Speaker 1: very very light ones and the very very very heavy ones.

879
00:44:38,960 --> 00:44:41,480
Speaker 1: He's this interesting regions sort of in the middle. Well,

880
00:44:41,480 --> 00:44:44,960
Speaker 1: the very very big ones might be like galaxies, right, like,

881
00:44:45,520 --> 00:44:47,360
Speaker 1: that's where they might be, right, but we know the

882
00:44:47,440 --> 00:44:50,360
Speaker 1: size of the black holes in the center of galaxies

883
00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:52,799
Speaker 1: and that certainly doesn't account for the dark matter. All right,

884
00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:55,799
Speaker 1: so we're we're looking for them, and um, how are

885
00:44:55,840 --> 00:44:59,640
Speaker 1: we looking for them? I guess with telescopes, with radio telescopes. Well,

886
00:44:59,680 --> 00:45:01,880
Speaker 1: another a way to look for them is to see

887
00:45:01,920 --> 00:45:05,040
Speaker 1: them destroying other stars. Like if you have this sort

888
00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:08,000
Speaker 1: of intermediate class black holes something like you know, ten

889
00:45:08,080 --> 00:45:11,160
Speaker 1: of the fourteen ten of the seventeen kilograms, then they

890
00:45:11,160 --> 00:45:14,480
Speaker 1: would occasionally like pass through a white dwarf or a

891
00:45:14,480 --> 00:45:18,520
Speaker 1: neutron star and essentially destroy it. What, Yeah, because you

892
00:45:18,560 --> 00:45:20,120
Speaker 1: know they Yeah, I guess if you have a whole

893
00:45:20,160 --> 00:45:23,320
Speaker 1: bunch of black holes floating around everywhere, it would be

894
00:45:23,360 --> 00:45:25,000
Speaker 1: a little bit of you would expect there to be

895
00:45:25,000 --> 00:45:26,879
Speaker 1: a little bit of a chaos, right, Yeah, it would

896
00:45:26,880 --> 00:45:29,400
Speaker 1: be disruptive. And so they would pass through and they

897
00:45:29,400 --> 00:45:31,920
Speaker 1: would shat ot these things. They might ignite fusion and

898
00:45:31,960 --> 00:45:34,840
Speaker 1: a white dwarf like kick it up into actually burning again,

899
00:45:35,160 --> 00:45:37,880
Speaker 1: and they could totally disrupt neutron stars. And we just

900
00:45:37,960 --> 00:45:40,880
Speaker 1: don't see that happening. Like the population of white dwarfs

901
00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:44,000
Speaker 1: and neutron stars, it looks as we expect, and so

902
00:45:44,040 --> 00:45:47,320
Speaker 1: we don't see a big effectocy. You know, something assassinating

903
00:45:47,360 --> 00:45:49,480
Speaker 1: neutron stars out there. We don't see a whole bunch

904
00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:53,520
Speaker 1: of chaos. Weasels running around the guards balacy. That's right.

905
00:45:53,680 --> 00:45:56,279
Speaker 1: But this part is very is hard, Like this is

906
00:45:56,280 --> 00:45:59,160
Speaker 1: a hard measurement to do to find these things, to

907
00:45:59,400 --> 00:46:01,480
Speaker 1: calculate how often you would see them. So there's sort

908
00:46:01,480 --> 00:46:04,600
Speaker 1: of a lot of controversy in this middle region here.

909
00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:07,280
Speaker 1: People are still really not sure how strong those limits.

910
00:46:07,480 --> 00:46:09,279
Speaker 1: I mean that we had to be these black holes

911
00:46:09,280 --> 00:46:11,040
Speaker 1: and they would have to run into other stuff, which

912
00:46:11,160 --> 00:46:13,799
Speaker 1: in space is kind of heart Yeah. And another thing

913
00:46:13,840 --> 00:46:15,319
Speaker 1: we can do is we can just look at our

914
00:46:15,320 --> 00:46:18,719
Speaker 1: own son, Like our sun is big enough that it

915
00:46:18,760 --> 00:46:21,600
Speaker 1: would survive having a small black hole just like go

916
00:46:21,800 --> 00:46:24,799
Speaker 1: into it. And they've done these awesome studies where they

917
00:46:24,840 --> 00:46:27,359
Speaker 1: show that you could see it happen by looking at

918
00:46:27,520 --> 00:46:30,800
Speaker 1: ripples on the surface of the sun, like sun quakes

919
00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:34,480
Speaker 1: could be evidence of micro black holes entering the Sun

920
00:46:35,239 --> 00:46:37,800
Speaker 1: like little like would that would be incredible? Wow? Woulduld

921
00:46:37,840 --> 00:46:39,480
Speaker 1: get into that? Like what happens if a black hole

922
00:46:39,640 --> 00:46:43,200
Speaker 1: goes into our sun? So it sounds a little disconcerting. Well,

923
00:46:43,239 --> 00:46:45,200
Speaker 1: if it's really big, then we're in trouble. But if

924
00:46:45,200 --> 00:46:48,120
Speaker 1: it's small enough, it just sort of like causes literal

925
00:46:48,239 --> 00:46:50,799
Speaker 1: waves on the surface of the sun. The sun will

926
00:46:50,840 --> 00:46:54,560
Speaker 1: settle back down and be okay, But you can definitely

927
00:46:54,600 --> 00:46:56,640
Speaker 1: see that. So that's the kind of thing we're planning

928
00:46:56,640 --> 00:46:58,480
Speaker 1: to do in the future to see if we can

929
00:46:58,480 --> 00:47:01,400
Speaker 1: spot these things. All right, Well, it sounds like it

930
00:47:01,440 --> 00:47:03,440
Speaker 1: sounds like an idea that makes a lot of sense.

931
00:47:03,560 --> 00:47:07,120
Speaker 1: It's definitely a cool idea. Um, But maybe the jury

932
00:47:07,160 --> 00:47:09,719
Speaker 1: is still out whether or not they're like actually there,

933
00:47:10,560 --> 00:47:12,879
Speaker 1: the jury is definitely out. We don't we're looking, Yeah,

934
00:47:12,880 --> 00:47:14,680
Speaker 1: we're looking. We don't know if these things are real.

935
00:47:15,200 --> 00:47:17,680
Speaker 1: If they are real, they would explain a lot. But

936
00:47:17,880 --> 00:47:20,560
Speaker 1: so far, you know that it's not looking good. Like,

937
00:47:20,600 --> 00:47:23,920
Speaker 1: the best models suggest that if you made primordial black holes,

938
00:47:24,200 --> 00:47:26,160
Speaker 1: you should make them sort of at all masses, the

939
00:47:26,280 --> 00:47:29,120
Speaker 1: really small ones, the really big ones, And we haven't

940
00:47:29,160 --> 00:47:31,480
Speaker 1: seen them at the small masses or the really big ones,

941
00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:33,799
Speaker 1: so that makes it a little more awkward. So now

942
00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:35,480
Speaker 1: you have to play some clever game and come up

943
00:47:35,480 --> 00:47:38,839
Speaker 1: with some reason why you would only make primordial black

944
00:47:38,840 --> 00:47:41,680
Speaker 1: holes at a certain mass region. So it makes it

945
00:47:41,760 --> 00:47:44,160
Speaker 1: less fun and sort of less pretty of an idea,

946
00:47:44,239 --> 00:47:46,880
Speaker 1: But Hey, it's still possible. Yeah, well, yeah, I was

947
00:47:46,920 --> 00:47:50,200
Speaker 1: getting kind of excited about this idea. It's a preme

948
00:47:50,200 --> 00:47:54,719
Speaker 1: eval idea. It's primordial. Should I should check my primordial

949
00:47:54,960 --> 00:47:57,560
Speaker 1: or just all right? Well, I think once again, at

950
00:47:57,760 --> 00:47:59,640
Speaker 1: this point, I think to all the things we don't

951
00:47:59,680 --> 00:48:02,319
Speaker 1: know about universe. We don't know what happened at the

952
00:48:02,360 --> 00:48:05,399
Speaker 1: Big Bang, and we don't know whether or not maybe

953
00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:08,200
Speaker 1: there are still the remnants of before the Big Bang

954
00:48:08,320 --> 00:48:13,080
Speaker 1: just hanging out with us. Absolutely, And it's tantalizing to

955
00:48:13,160 --> 00:48:15,680
Speaker 1: think that those remnants could be here and they could

956
00:48:15,680 --> 00:48:18,480
Speaker 1: hold clues as to what happened in those first few moments.

957
00:48:18,760 --> 00:48:21,520
Speaker 1: They could give us insights into how the universe was made.

958
00:48:21,520 --> 00:48:24,279
Speaker 1: And if we measured the sort of spectrum of these

959
00:48:24,280 --> 00:48:27,080
Speaker 1: black holes and discovered their masses and only these were made,

960
00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:29,480
Speaker 1: not those were made, they would really be like a

961
00:48:30,080 --> 00:48:32,560
Speaker 1: window back in the first few moments of the universe.

962
00:48:32,600 --> 00:48:35,600
Speaker 1: So I really do hope they do exist, because primordial

963
00:48:35,680 --> 00:48:38,359
Speaker 1: is a cool word, and the idea is cool, and

964
00:48:38,400 --> 00:48:40,440
Speaker 1: I hope that they have secrets in them that they

965
00:48:40,440 --> 00:48:45,160
Speaker 1: will yeah, because you know, why not? Why not? Exactly?

966
00:48:45,680 --> 00:48:47,600
Speaker 1: The Big Bang was so much fun? Let's do it again,

967
00:48:48,120 --> 00:48:51,799
Speaker 1: But why not yet? Yeah, let's hold off on that.

968
00:48:51,880 --> 00:48:54,640
Speaker 1: We'll put a pin on that, all right. Well, we

969
00:48:54,680 --> 00:48:58,279
Speaker 1: hope you enjoyed that discussion. Thanks for joining us, See

970
00:48:58,280 --> 00:49:08,719
Speaker 1: you next time. Ye. Thanks for listening and remember that

971
00:49:08,840 --> 00:49:11,600
Speaker 1: Daniel and Jorge Explain the Universe is a production of

972
00:49:11,680 --> 00:49:15,080
Speaker 1: I Heart Radio. For more podcast from my Heart Radio,

973
00:49:15,200 --> 00:49:18,760
Speaker 1: visit the I Heart Radio Apple Apple Podcasts, or wherever

974
00:49:18,880 --> 00:49:20,520
Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.