1 00:00:01,639 --> 00:00:06,160 Speaker 1: Now from our nation's capital. This is Bloomberg's sound on 2 00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:09,160 Speaker 1: The one thing that we all know is Donald Trump 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:11,959 Speaker 1: has more classified information in his head than he does 4 00:00:12,000 --> 00:00:14,000 Speaker 1: in his desk. He would think there would be an 5 00:00:14,040 --> 00:00:18,080 Speaker 1: adult in the Republican room that would say, just calm down, 6 00:00:18,400 --> 00:00:21,440 Speaker 1: see what the facts are. Heck, maybe it was Aliens. 7 00:00:21,440 --> 00:00:26,560 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Sound on Politics, Policy and Perspective from DC's Top Names. 8 00:00:26,920 --> 00:00:28,880 Speaker 1: What I'm interested in is the amount of money that 9 00:00:28,880 --> 00:00:31,200 Speaker 1: Donald Trump himself is raising. Off of the fact that 10 00:00:31,240 --> 00:00:33,920 Speaker 1: it overshadows all the news is a negative for the 11 00:00:33,960 --> 00:00:39,520 Speaker 1: Biden campaign. Bloomberg Sound On with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. 12 00:00:41,320 --> 00:00:44,880 Speaker 1: The search warrants has been unsealed. Welcome to the fastest 13 00:00:44,880 --> 00:00:47,560 Speaker 1: hour in politics, as we throw out the script on 14 00:00:47,600 --> 00:00:50,720 Speaker 1: a breaking news Friday. We have learned a lot about 15 00:00:50,720 --> 00:00:53,280 Speaker 1: what the FBI was looking for at Mara a Lago 16 00:00:53,440 --> 00:00:56,240 Speaker 1: and what it seased, and we've assembled some of the 17 00:00:56,240 --> 00:00:59,440 Speaker 1: smartest minds in law and politics to help us make 18 00:00:59,520 --> 00:01:01,360 Speaker 1: sense of it. All. Will be joined this hour by 19 00:01:01,360 --> 00:01:05,160 Speaker 1: Brad Moss, partner at Mark's Aide, specialist in national security 20 00:01:05,240 --> 00:01:10,000 Speaker 1: and security clearances, by Michael Zelden, former federal prosecutor and 21 00:01:10,120 --> 00:01:13,400 Speaker 1: later Joel Rubin, former Deputy Assistant Secretary of State in 22 00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:17,720 Speaker 1: the Obama administration. A specialists as well on high level 23 00:01:17,800 --> 00:01:22,440 Speaker 1: security clearances as a deputy assistant Secretary of State, will 24 00:01:22,480 --> 00:01:25,759 Speaker 1: have much more of their expertise coming up along with 25 00:01:25,959 --> 00:01:29,000 Speaker 1: our panel. The signature panel is in place with Rick 26 00:01:29,080 --> 00:01:32,319 Speaker 1: Davis and Jennie Chanzano, Bloomberg Politics contributors. We have a 27 00:01:32,319 --> 00:01:34,360 Speaker 1: lot to share with you. As we turned to the 28 00:01:34,400 --> 00:01:36,480 Speaker 1: big breaker here, a lot of folks thought they'd be 29 00:01:36,520 --> 00:01:42,080 Speaker 1: talking about the Inflation Reduction Act, which is going to 30 00:01:42,160 --> 00:01:43,800 Speaker 1: get a vote at some point. We're told I spent 31 00:01:43,840 --> 00:01:45,800 Speaker 1: about six hours in the house waiting for that to 32 00:01:45,800 --> 00:01:47,880 Speaker 1: happen today, but I needed to come talk to you 33 00:01:47,920 --> 00:01:51,000 Speaker 1: about the news that took over the headlines. And so 34 00:01:51,040 --> 00:01:55,320 Speaker 1: here we are Bloomberg Bureau in Washington, d C. With 35 00:01:55,400 --> 00:01:59,720 Speaker 1: the headline d o J cited Espionage Act in Trump warrant. 36 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:06,480 Speaker 1: FBI found secret files that already is a lot remembering 37 00:02:06,480 --> 00:02:10,280 Speaker 1: this search happened Monday. Heads exploded Monday night into Tuesday, 38 00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:13,119 Speaker 1: and we have been waiting ever since to find out 39 00:02:13,160 --> 00:02:19,440 Speaker 1: what was inside the warrant, remembering as well, we heard 40 00:02:19,480 --> 00:02:22,760 Speaker 1: nothing from the Department of Justice until yesterday when Merrick 41 00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:27,080 Speaker 1: Garland spoke to the media. The only person who really 42 00:02:27,080 --> 00:02:29,440 Speaker 1: could have told us what was in that warrant otherwise 43 00:02:29,880 --> 00:02:32,200 Speaker 1: was the man who tipped us off about the search 44 00:02:32,320 --> 00:02:35,840 Speaker 1: to begin with, Donald Trump. And what a lot of 45 00:02:35,880 --> 00:02:39,440 Speaker 1: messaging from him today. So the list of information ceased, 46 00:02:39,440 --> 00:02:41,720 Speaker 1: as I read on the terminal includes documents labeled with 47 00:02:41,800 --> 00:02:45,280 Speaker 1: various classified T S, s c I documents. You're gonna 48 00:02:45,360 --> 00:02:48,200 Speaker 1: hear that a lot that refers to top secret and 49 00:02:48,280 --> 00:02:53,000 Speaker 1: sensitive compartment and information. This is Washington speak, a government 50 00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:57,400 Speaker 1: label from material gathered through sensitive intelligence sources, methods or 51 00:02:57,400 --> 00:03:00,560 Speaker 1: analytical processes. Now, before this came out out, we're going 52 00:03:00,600 --> 00:03:03,000 Speaker 1: to balance the legal and political sides of this for 53 00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:06,400 Speaker 1: the for the balance of the hour, Republican leadership in 54 00:03:06,440 --> 00:03:08,560 Speaker 1: the House held a briefing. They're here to vote on 55 00:03:08,600 --> 00:03:11,240 Speaker 1: the Inflation Act today and wouldn't have any of this. 56 00:03:11,600 --> 00:03:15,360 Speaker 1: An incredible pre bottled, if you will, to the warrant 57 00:03:15,360 --> 00:03:18,040 Speaker 1: being unsealed at least defanic of course, a member of 58 00:03:18,040 --> 00:03:21,480 Speaker 1: the Republican House leadership from New York. President Donald Trump 59 00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:25,760 Speaker 1: is Joe Biden's most likeliest political opponent in and this 60 00:03:25,840 --> 00:03:29,480 Speaker 1: is less than one hundred days from critical midterm elections. 61 00:03:29,919 --> 00:03:32,680 Speaker 1: The FBI rate of President Trump is a complete abuse 62 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:37,280 Speaker 1: and overreach of its authority. And as the American people know, unfortunately, 63 00:03:37,520 --> 00:03:41,120 Speaker 1: this is the same agency leadership that protected Hillary Clinton, 64 00:03:41,640 --> 00:03:45,320 Speaker 1: James Comey and continues to protect Hunter Biden. We're hearing 65 00:03:45,360 --> 00:03:47,560 Speaker 1: a lot about Hillary Clinton. Of course, James Comey, well, 66 00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:53,240 Speaker 1: he ran, he ran the agency. Mark Waynemullin, Republican from Oklahoma, 67 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:57,120 Speaker 1: also Republican House member hit in the drama again on 68 00:03:57,200 --> 00:04:00,640 Speaker 1: Hillary Clinton, point out the double standard here too. You know, 69 00:04:00,920 --> 00:04:05,560 Speaker 1: we we we saw that the this media frenzy about 70 00:04:05,560 --> 00:04:10,000 Speaker 1: supposedly classified information. Where was the same media frenzy when 71 00:04:10,480 --> 00:04:13,480 Speaker 1: there are thirty three thousand classified emails on a server 72 00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:17,160 Speaker 1: in a bathroom with here Lee Clinton. Why didn't they 73 00:04:17,200 --> 00:04:21,320 Speaker 1: raid that bathroom? Why they work with her to find 74 00:04:21,320 --> 00:04:26,200 Speaker 1: out a time, a date, and what documents they could 75 00:04:26,200 --> 00:04:28,680 Speaker 1: and couldn't see. Makes you start wondering did any of 76 00:04:28,720 --> 00:04:33,840 Speaker 1: them know what was in the warrant? Representative Chris Stewart, 77 00:04:33,880 --> 00:04:37,480 Speaker 1: Republican from Utah was certainly reaching. Look what's happened over 78 00:04:37,480 --> 00:04:39,520 Speaker 1: the last five years, and look at the premise of 79 00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:44,080 Speaker 1: most of your questions. Was it nuclear? Was it heck, 80 00:04:44,160 --> 00:04:48,120 Speaker 1: maybe it was aliens. That's the point. We don't know. 81 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:52,200 Speaker 1: We're asking them to tell us, and until they tell us, 82 00:04:52,360 --> 00:04:55,080 Speaker 1: then we're gonna have questions like this and the presumption 83 00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:58,040 Speaker 1: is going to be that it is political. Turns out 84 00:04:58,200 --> 00:05:01,480 Speaker 1: not aliens included them. It's your reals. Removed from Trump's home. 85 00:05:01,920 --> 00:05:05,800 Speaker 1: Eleven sets of documents, not eleven documents. Eleven sets of 86 00:05:05,880 --> 00:05:11,040 Speaker 1: documents labeled classified, confidential, secret, and top secret, twenty boxes 87 00:05:11,080 --> 00:05:15,520 Speaker 1: in total. Other items included on the list a handwritten 88 00:05:15,560 --> 00:05:20,719 Speaker 1: note the executive clemency grant for Roger Stone, some photographs 89 00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:24,880 Speaker 1: and information. This one releases what information about the president 90 00:05:24,880 --> 00:05:30,440 Speaker 1: of France? It's got stuff on mcron. The items were 91 00:05:30,440 --> 00:05:33,760 Speaker 1: seized during the execution of a search warrant signed by 92 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:36,480 Speaker 1: a Florida judge. And what a life the judge must 93 00:05:36,520 --> 00:05:40,599 Speaker 1: be having. Let's start with our first voice of authority today, 94 00:05:40,640 --> 00:05:43,479 Speaker 1: Brad Moss, as I mentioned, partner at Mark Said, specializes 95 00:05:43,520 --> 00:05:47,760 Speaker 1: in litigation on matters relating to national security, security clearance law, 96 00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:52,359 Speaker 1: the Freedom of Information Acts, the Privacy Act. Clerked for 97 00:05:52,360 --> 00:05:55,359 Speaker 1: the National Security Archive. Brad, we couldn't think of a 98 00:05:55,400 --> 00:05:58,560 Speaker 1: more perfect person to start off with here, having heard 99 00:05:58,640 --> 00:06:01,520 Speaker 1: so much confusion around fund all of this, and to 100 00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:05,080 Speaker 1: see the Espionage Act cited here, did this just get 101 00:06:05,120 --> 00:06:08,920 Speaker 1: a lot more severe for Donald Trump. Yeah, so this 102 00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:11,800 Speaker 1: is pretty interesting. So just you know, off the bat, 103 00:06:11,880 --> 00:06:16,279 Speaker 1: the Espionage Act is the worst titled law around. The 104 00:06:16,360 --> 00:06:19,599 Speaker 1: majority of the crimes listed in the Espionage Act have 105 00:06:19,839 --> 00:06:25,039 Speaker 1: nothing to do with spines. Yeah, it's about unlawful um 106 00:06:25,400 --> 00:06:29,479 Speaker 1: stamp storage, handling, and transmission of information related to national 107 00:06:29,480 --> 00:06:32,720 Speaker 1: defenses from World War One. UM. But the fact that 108 00:06:32,720 --> 00:06:36,200 Speaker 1: that's being cited is the provisions in there that are 109 00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:38,839 Speaker 1: being we're going to be relied upon our felonies which 110 00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:45,240 Speaker 1: potentially huge criminal sentencing h implications if convicted. That's bad 111 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:48,760 Speaker 1: for the president, for the former president. That is they 112 00:06:48,760 --> 00:06:51,040 Speaker 1: have found in these documents. We've seen it in the 113 00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:55,560 Speaker 1: inventory list, all these different sets of classified properly marked, 114 00:06:55,640 --> 00:06:59,400 Speaker 1: properly classified records up to and including as you mentioned 115 00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:02,640 Speaker 1: t S SCI which is top secret, the highest level 116 00:07:02,680 --> 00:07:07,000 Speaker 1: of classification and sensitive compartment and information which means they 117 00:07:07,040 --> 00:07:10,240 Speaker 1: only slept groups of people even normally have access to it. 118 00:07:10,320 --> 00:07:13,400 Speaker 1: Those are the most sensitive secrets up to an up 119 00:07:13,440 --> 00:07:17,679 Speaker 1: with UH special access programs. Very few people ever see those. 120 00:07:17,840 --> 00:07:20,880 Speaker 1: There's no reason the president should have been holding onto 121 00:07:20,880 --> 00:07:23,880 Speaker 1: that at mar Lago. He sent a series of messages today, 122 00:07:24,600 --> 00:07:26,600 Speaker 1: some of them pointing, while one of them pointing to 123 00:07:26,920 --> 00:07:30,040 Speaker 1: Barack Obama. Strangely, that was knocked down very quickly by 124 00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:33,800 Speaker 1: the National Archives. Then there was another one that came 125 00:07:33,840 --> 00:07:36,920 Speaker 1: in midday. Here. Number one, Donald Trump writes, it was 126 00:07:37,080 --> 00:07:42,280 Speaker 1: all declassified, effectively confirming everything that he had been questioning. 127 00:07:42,480 --> 00:07:45,360 Speaker 1: Number two, they didn't need to seize anything they could 128 00:07:45,400 --> 00:07:48,360 Speaker 1: have had at any time they wanted, without playing politics 129 00:07:48,400 --> 00:07:51,760 Speaker 1: and breaking into marra Lago. I'm already confused. Number one, 130 00:07:52,280 --> 00:07:56,000 Speaker 1: the Justice Department does not think they were declassified, right. 131 00:07:56,040 --> 00:07:59,239 Speaker 1: And number two, they apparently felt a need to seize 132 00:07:59,320 --> 00:08:02,800 Speaker 1: these secret documents because they had asked repeatedly for them 133 00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:06,400 Speaker 1: to be handed over. Am I am I getting closer 134 00:08:06,440 --> 00:08:10,960 Speaker 1: to understanding this. Yes, correct, So let's be clear. All 135 00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:12,840 Speaker 1: of this first was supposed to have been handled over 136 00:08:12,920 --> 00:08:15,240 Speaker 1: eighteen months ago. It was never supposed to have gone 137 00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:18,679 Speaker 1: walking with him down Florida. It's it took eighteen months 138 00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:21,880 Speaker 1: just to get these things back. It took twelve months 139 00:08:21,920 --> 00:08:24,960 Speaker 1: in February of this year for him the first ship 140 00:08:25,040 --> 00:08:29,240 Speaker 1: back fifteen boxes of records, which included all manner of 141 00:08:29,280 --> 00:08:33,520 Speaker 1: class fight information and probably marked class by documents. In June, 142 00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:36,160 Speaker 1: FBI agents went out there with a subpoena and they 143 00:08:36,200 --> 00:08:39,160 Speaker 1: found more documents and they were given in. He allowed 144 00:08:39,160 --> 00:08:42,040 Speaker 1: to inspect the area, the basement where these things were sitting. 145 00:08:42,440 --> 00:08:46,520 Speaker 1: And only then two months later, after negotiations were breaking down, 146 00:08:46,520 --> 00:08:50,040 Speaker 1: did they finally say enough is enough. We're going in 147 00:08:50,040 --> 00:08:52,800 Speaker 1: to get these records. Nobody else would be allowed to 148 00:08:52,840 --> 00:08:56,319 Speaker 1: sit there with sets upon sets of T, S, S 149 00:08:56,320 --> 00:08:59,840 Speaker 1: c I documents sitting in their basement. They bent over 150 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:03,760 Speaker 1: backwards for him. But to the other point, this thing 151 00:09:03,800 --> 00:09:06,959 Speaker 1: about declassifications, This will be their primary defense if there's 152 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:10,560 Speaker 1: an indictment that he, when he was president, declassified this stuff. 153 00:09:10,679 --> 00:09:13,120 Speaker 1: And let's be clear, up until the moment Joe Biden 154 00:09:13,160 --> 00:09:16,640 Speaker 1: took out took the office, Donald Trump had the authority, 155 00:09:16,720 --> 00:09:21,440 Speaker 1: unfettered discretion to declassify anything he wanted, with the exception 156 00:09:21,480 --> 00:09:24,839 Speaker 1: of anything covered by the Atomic Energy Act. He could 157 00:09:24,840 --> 00:09:28,120 Speaker 1: have declassified these documents, but it requires more than a 158 00:09:28,200 --> 00:09:31,240 Speaker 1: verbal order, and there's no indication he did. That's interesting 159 00:09:31,240 --> 00:09:34,160 Speaker 1: because his lawyer has suggested that basically, if the President 160 00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:37,320 Speaker 1: of the United States thinks it declassified, than it is. 161 00:09:38,040 --> 00:09:40,439 Speaker 1: But there had to have been a formal process that 162 00:09:40,559 --> 00:09:44,360 Speaker 1: was not gone through correct So he could have sat there, 163 00:09:44,480 --> 00:09:46,520 Speaker 1: pointed at a set of boxes and said, I want 164 00:09:46,559 --> 00:09:50,839 Speaker 1: those declassified, or I'm saying they're declassified. That's great. That 165 00:09:50,880 --> 00:09:55,319 Speaker 1: doesn't do anything. You have to literally go document by document, 166 00:09:55,679 --> 00:09:58,720 Speaker 1: Every single one of them has to be declassified. There's 167 00:09:58,760 --> 00:10:01,520 Speaker 1: markings that have to be ex baxed out, the stamp 168 00:10:01,600 --> 00:10:03,800 Speaker 1: that has to be put on it saying when it 169 00:10:03,880 --> 00:10:06,520 Speaker 1: was declassified and by whom and under what authority. You 170 00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:09,520 Speaker 1: have to go through that. Until you do, you cannot 171 00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:13,480 Speaker 1: as a private citizen post presidency, hold onto them because 172 00:10:13,480 --> 00:10:16,280 Speaker 1: they still have the markings on them. They're still supposed 173 00:10:16,280 --> 00:10:18,440 Speaker 1: to be treated as classified. Is all of this on 174 00:10:18,520 --> 00:10:21,839 Speaker 1: the president? We understand others boxed up these documents. They 175 00:10:21,840 --> 00:10:24,959 Speaker 1: were stacked up in different places. I mean, is the 176 00:10:25,040 --> 00:10:28,160 Speaker 1: chief of staff called out for this? Is the secretary? 177 00:10:28,200 --> 00:10:30,920 Speaker 1: How does this work in terms of who gets final 178 00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:32,480 Speaker 1: eyes on this stuff? How the heck did it end 179 00:10:32,559 --> 00:10:35,240 Speaker 1: up in Florida with nobody knowing about it? Yeah, So 180 00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:39,640 Speaker 1: in a normal competent administration, after the election, there would 181 00:10:39,640 --> 00:10:42,600 Speaker 1: have been immediate negotiations between the White House staff, the 182 00:10:42,600 --> 00:10:46,760 Speaker 1: White House Counsel's Office, any number of government staffers coordinating 183 00:10:46,760 --> 00:10:50,319 Speaker 1: with the National Archives, and they would have transported documents 184 00:10:50,320 --> 00:10:54,200 Speaker 1: into a secure, secure facility, sorted through it, figured out 185 00:10:54,240 --> 00:10:57,040 Speaker 1: where everything needs to be stored, and started archiving in 186 00:10:56,960 --> 00:11:01,000 Speaker 1: in anticipation of an eventual presidential library. That didn't happen 187 00:11:01,040 --> 00:11:04,080 Speaker 1: with Donald Trump because he spent most of November and December, 188 00:11:04,080 --> 00:11:07,160 Speaker 1: in early January trying to fight the loss in the election. 189 00:11:07,640 --> 00:11:10,760 Speaker 1: They only started going through this stuff two weeks before 190 00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:13,199 Speaker 1: he was set to leave, and they just had staff 191 00:11:13,360 --> 00:11:15,600 Speaker 1: throw everything in boxes that was in the residence, that 192 00:11:15,720 --> 00:11:18,360 Speaker 1: was all across the White House the boxes and put 193 00:11:18,360 --> 00:11:20,120 Speaker 1: it on a truck and set it down to Florida. 194 00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:23,280 Speaker 1: That's not how it's supposed to work. So these classified 195 00:11:23,280 --> 00:11:26,480 Speaker 1: documents sent up in the same boxes as Roger Stone's 196 00:11:26,679 --> 00:11:30,600 Speaker 1: clemency grants, and what is this? What do you make 197 00:11:30,640 --> 00:11:35,240 Speaker 1: of this information about the president of France? So I'm 198 00:11:35,280 --> 00:11:37,120 Speaker 1: not sure what that is. It doesn't sound like it's 199 00:11:37,120 --> 00:11:40,160 Speaker 1: actually classified information about the president of France. It sounds 200 00:11:40,200 --> 00:11:41,640 Speaker 1: like it was sitting in the same box with the 201 00:11:41,760 --> 00:11:44,760 Speaker 1: Roger Stone information that could have been just about anything, 202 00:11:44,840 --> 00:11:48,400 Speaker 1: but the fact that the inventory lift provides information on 203 00:11:48,440 --> 00:11:51,320 Speaker 1: that and doesn't on any of the classified documents makes 204 00:11:51,360 --> 00:11:54,880 Speaker 1: me think it's something totally unclassified. This is why we 205 00:11:54,880 --> 00:11:56,840 Speaker 1: wanted to talk to him before we did anything else. 206 00:11:57,200 --> 00:11:59,920 Speaker 1: Great conversation and insights, Brad Moss. Thank you for being 207 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:03,160 Speaker 1: of us on Bloomberg Sound On. How about that? That's 208 00:12:03,160 --> 00:12:06,360 Speaker 1: more than you've heard anywhere else today, isn't it. I 209 00:12:06,400 --> 00:12:08,400 Speaker 1: want to assemble the panel before we bring in Michael's 210 00:12:08,400 --> 00:12:11,439 Speaker 1: Elden for the view of a former federal prosecutor. There's 211 00:12:11,480 --> 00:12:14,199 Speaker 1: a lot of politics going on here. Rick Davis and 212 00:12:14,240 --> 00:12:18,080 Speaker 1: Jeannie Chanzano are with us. Thank god Bloomberg Politics contributors. 213 00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:21,400 Speaker 1: They make up our signature panel. Rick, this has been 214 00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:23,920 Speaker 1: a heck of a day in Washington. You just heard 215 00:12:23,960 --> 00:12:27,520 Speaker 1: Brad walk through this. Does this feel more potentially damning 216 00:12:27,520 --> 00:12:30,360 Speaker 1: than it did yesterday? You know? I I think It's 217 00:12:31,040 --> 00:12:34,319 Speaker 1: appears more damning, mostly because of Donald Trump's comments. If 218 00:12:34,320 --> 00:12:37,280 Speaker 1: he had just stayed quiet through the course of all this, 219 00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:41,200 Speaker 1: effectively confirming this, you mean confirming it and then denying it, 220 00:12:41,240 --> 00:12:43,560 Speaker 1: and then denying his confirmations I mean the point you 221 00:12:43,559 --> 00:12:46,559 Speaker 1: were making about all the different lines that he's putting 222 00:12:46,559 --> 00:12:49,240 Speaker 1: out there on one day, Rick, you know, he claimed 223 00:12:49,240 --> 00:12:51,360 Speaker 1: there was no classified information and he claimed he had 224 00:12:51,360 --> 00:12:56,679 Speaker 1: already declassified. Well maybe that's not mutually exclusive, but um, 225 00:12:56,720 --> 00:13:00,600 Speaker 1: I must say, I've never seen anybody deconstructive selves. I mean, 226 00:13:00,640 --> 00:13:03,200 Speaker 1: you can tell why many Republicans are running for the 227 00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:06,960 Speaker 1: hills from this guy today, because what do you defend? 228 00:13:07,120 --> 00:13:09,760 Speaker 1: He's changing his opinion on it by the hour. A 229 00:13:09,760 --> 00:13:11,440 Speaker 1: lot of them were not though, Rick, you heard some 230 00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:15,400 Speaker 1: of the folks I played, at least de Fanic included who. 231 00:13:15,520 --> 00:13:18,240 Speaker 1: I mean, gosh, it's pretty hard to find a Republican 232 00:13:18,360 --> 00:13:21,000 Speaker 1: in the US House or anywhere in Washington right now 233 00:13:21,360 --> 00:13:24,920 Speaker 1: who's calling out Donald Trump on this. No, nobody's calling 234 00:13:24,960 --> 00:13:27,200 Speaker 1: him out. But this was the freak of the freak 235 00:13:27,240 --> 00:13:30,840 Speaker 1: show today. I mean, Stefani gave it credibility by being there. 236 00:13:31,559 --> 00:13:33,960 Speaker 1: But this was the group that has stand tall for 237 00:13:34,120 --> 00:13:37,760 Speaker 1: Donald Trump all throughout and have been promoting every conspiracy 238 00:13:37,800 --> 00:13:40,040 Speaker 1: theory known a man. So the fact that we're even 239 00:13:40,080 --> 00:13:43,040 Speaker 1: reporting what they say is I think a stretch away. 240 00:13:44,200 --> 00:13:49,440 Speaker 1: Genie Uh, Donald Trump, among his uh statements issue today, 241 00:13:49,760 --> 00:13:52,840 Speaker 1: one of them was very short. President, he writes, President 242 00:13:52,880 --> 00:13:57,160 Speaker 1: Barack Hussein Obama, he wrote the full name, kept thirty 243 00:13:57,200 --> 00:14:00,720 Speaker 1: three million pages of documents, thirty three million, much of 244 00:14:00,760 --> 00:14:05,000 Speaker 1: them classified. How many of them pertain to nuclear He asked? 245 00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:09,120 Speaker 1: Where it is? Lots? Well, every reporter in Washington called 246 00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:12,320 Speaker 1: the National Archives on that, and and of course, you 247 00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:17,360 Speaker 1: know Obama World. They were quick to provide, uh evidence 248 00:14:17,440 --> 00:14:20,320 Speaker 1: of that not being true. The National Archives scooped all 249 00:14:20,320 --> 00:14:26,080 Speaker 1: of that up and keeps it safely here in its warehouse. Uh, 250 00:14:26,240 --> 00:14:28,880 Speaker 1: we're going to hear about Hillary Clinton emails and I 251 00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:33,880 Speaker 1: guess Obama documents until November. Oh we are. It is 252 00:14:33,920 --> 00:14:37,840 Speaker 1: a Donald Trump back to deflection blaming other people. But 253 00:14:38,280 --> 00:14:41,080 Speaker 1: you know, as I look through the documents that were 254 00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:44,440 Speaker 1: released today, what is so stunning to me in terms 255 00:14:44,520 --> 00:14:46,960 Speaker 1: of the laws that the d o J are saying 256 00:14:46,960 --> 00:14:50,720 Speaker 1: we're potentially violated by possession of this material is two 257 00:14:50,720 --> 00:14:53,240 Speaker 1: oh seven one. And this is why at least Stefanik 258 00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:55,840 Speaker 1: is talking about less than ninety days to the election. 259 00:14:56,280 --> 00:14:59,520 Speaker 1: Penalties for that if you were found to be guilty 260 00:14:59,560 --> 00:15:03,600 Speaker 1: of it include you are not unable to hold any 261 00:15:03,640 --> 00:15:07,360 Speaker 1: office in the United States. Now, scholars differ in terms 262 00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:10,080 Speaker 1: of whether that applies to the president, because qualifications for 263 00:15:10,120 --> 00:15:13,760 Speaker 1: the president in the Constitution are pretty clear. But that 264 00:15:13,840 --> 00:15:17,160 Speaker 1: to me is a major question here because they are 265 00:15:17,240 --> 00:15:20,040 Speaker 1: saying two oh seven one and that is a potential 266 00:15:20,080 --> 00:15:23,200 Speaker 1: penalty for violation of that And that stood out to 267 00:15:23,280 --> 00:15:25,920 Speaker 1: me right away as that's listed at the top of 268 00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:29,600 Speaker 1: this unsealed warrant. We are holding the warrant here in studio. 269 00:15:29,680 --> 00:15:35,240 Speaker 1: Our panel each has a copy as well, dated August eleven. 270 00:15:35,280 --> 00:15:40,080 Speaker 1: How about that, um, United States District Court, Southern Districts 271 00:15:40,120 --> 00:15:43,600 Speaker 1: of Florida, Rick, how long can that party line continue? 272 00:15:43,640 --> 00:15:46,800 Speaker 1: You just you just keep either quiet or supporting Donald 273 00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:49,080 Speaker 1: Trump and still Election day. Yeah, I think I think 274 00:15:49,120 --> 00:15:52,840 Speaker 1: that there will be a noticeable silence by most Republican 275 00:15:52,880 --> 00:15:55,120 Speaker 1: office holders, you know, out of Washington. I mean, they're 276 00:15:55,120 --> 00:15:58,000 Speaker 1: gonna head home for recess. They're gonna focus on campaigning 277 00:15:58,080 --> 00:16:00,040 Speaker 1: and and and they're gonna hope this dies to on 278 00:16:00,200 --> 00:16:04,280 Speaker 1: because this does not help turn out the vote for Republicans, 279 00:16:04,440 --> 00:16:06,920 Speaker 1: you know, in the midterm elections. So, uh, talk about 280 00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:09,000 Speaker 1: a distraction. I mean we've talked in the past about 281 00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:11,120 Speaker 1: how Donald Trump has a way of showing up. Is 282 00:16:11,160 --> 00:16:13,960 Speaker 1: the major issue right before an election that has nothing 283 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:16,560 Speaker 1: to do with the campaign that anybody's waging. And here 284 00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:19,720 Speaker 1: we go again. Uh. Whether or not he means to 285 00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:21,840 Speaker 1: do it, he has a knack of doing it. Yeah. 286 00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:26,000 Speaker 1: There will not be one single commercial favorable to Republicans 287 00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:29,520 Speaker 1: about the Donald Trump raid at mar Lago. So, um, 288 00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:32,160 Speaker 1: you know, here he goes again. And uh. And so 289 00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:35,640 Speaker 1: I think that, uh, there will be responsible Republicans who 290 00:16:35,680 --> 00:16:37,280 Speaker 1: speak out and say, hey, we've got to get to 291 00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:39,040 Speaker 1: the bottom of this, this is bad for the country 292 00:16:39,040 --> 00:16:42,320 Speaker 1: and bad for our party. But but I suspect those 293 00:16:42,360 --> 00:16:45,000 Speaker 1: will be fueling far between because the head and sand 294 00:16:45,040 --> 00:16:48,200 Speaker 1: strategy has been what most Republicans have done. Has the 295 00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:51,200 Speaker 1: White House been smart to keep quiet on this genie? 296 00:16:51,240 --> 00:16:54,400 Speaker 1: They've been pretty buttoned up this week. Yeah, they have 297 00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:57,280 Speaker 1: been very smart. You know, when your opponent is getting 298 00:16:57,360 --> 00:17:00,400 Speaker 1: himself or herself in hot water, just keep quiet about it, 299 00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:02,880 Speaker 1: don't get involved. They've been trying to do that. One 300 00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:05,040 Speaker 1: problem for the White House is, of course, what is 301 00:17:05,119 --> 00:17:07,640 Speaker 1: happening on Capitol Hill that you've been watching all day, 302 00:17:07,880 --> 00:17:10,560 Speaker 1: which is an enormous success for them in terms of 303 00:17:10,600 --> 00:17:15,560 Speaker 1: the potential passage soon of the Reconciliation Act, the Inflation 304 00:17:15,560 --> 00:17:19,919 Speaker 1: Act Reduction Act, and you know how many people have 305 00:17:20,080 --> 00:17:22,520 Speaker 1: been focused on that. I noticed we had Steenny Hoyer 306 00:17:22,800 --> 00:17:25,639 Speaker 1: Chuck Schumer out on the air waves today and every 307 00:17:25,760 --> 00:17:29,159 Speaker 1: question they were asked had to do with Donald Trump first, 308 00:17:29,200 --> 00:17:31,680 Speaker 1: and then at the end, Oh, yeah, you're passing this. 309 00:17:31,840 --> 00:17:34,320 Speaker 1: That's great, good luck and move on. That's a problem 310 00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:37,200 Speaker 1: for Democrats. So Donald Trump, to Rick's point, once again, 311 00:17:37,280 --> 00:17:40,919 Speaker 1: stealing the thunder of almost everybody, maybe to the demise 312 00:17:40,920 --> 00:17:43,040 Speaker 1: of some Republicans, but the White House has got to 313 00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:45,040 Speaker 1: be able to get on message about this. I Rara, though, 314 00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:48,880 Speaker 1: wonder maybe she does mean it. How do you how 315 00:17:48,880 --> 00:17:51,880 Speaker 1: does that happen when you're not even planning it, Rick 316 00:17:51,920 --> 00:17:53,680 Speaker 1: and Janie or with us for the hour, of course, 317 00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:56,200 Speaker 1: we wanted to just check in with them very quickly 318 00:17:56,640 --> 00:17:59,960 Speaker 1: before we now connect with Michael Zelden, former federal prosecutor, 319 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:03,320 Speaker 1: former special counsel to Robert Mueller while at the Department 320 00:18:03,320 --> 00:18:05,199 Speaker 1: of Justice. Michael, it's great to have you back. We 321 00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:07,280 Speaker 1: last spoke when we didn't know a lot about this, 322 00:18:07,840 --> 00:18:09,959 Speaker 1: and I'll tell you I keep hearing about the Mueller 323 00:18:10,040 --> 00:18:14,280 Speaker 1: probe by a lot of mainly Republican lawmakers who are saying, hey, 324 00:18:14,280 --> 00:18:18,359 Speaker 1: come on, Democrats have been chasing this guy, Russia, Russia, 325 00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:22,200 Speaker 1: Russia collusion, all this business. They've never gotten anything to stick. 326 00:18:22,280 --> 00:18:24,639 Speaker 1: How come this is going to be different? Does this 327 00:18:24,720 --> 00:18:28,719 Speaker 1: feel very different to you? It really depends on the 328 00:18:28,760 --> 00:18:32,320 Speaker 1: will of the Justice Department. Remember in the Mueller years 329 00:18:32,359 --> 00:18:35,320 Speaker 1: we had the Bar Justice Department. Then that was a 330 00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:39,840 Speaker 1: very different approach to law enforcement than the Garland Justice Department. 331 00:18:39,920 --> 00:18:43,760 Speaker 1: I think that had Garland been Attorney General during the 332 00:18:43,840 --> 00:18:47,960 Speaker 1: Mueller investigation, he may well have considered bringing obstruction charges 333 00:18:48,040 --> 00:18:51,960 Speaker 1: with Mueller, which Mueller outlined in Volume one of his report. 334 00:18:52,160 --> 00:18:54,760 Speaker 1: But that was then and this is now, and we'll 335 00:18:54,760 --> 00:18:58,639 Speaker 1: just have to see how America views the seriousness of 336 00:18:58,680 --> 00:19:03,200 Speaker 1: this and the prosecute to prosecutorial worthiness of it. They 337 00:19:03,240 --> 00:19:07,440 Speaker 1: may be content to just get these documents back, secure them, 338 00:19:07,640 --> 00:19:10,679 Speaker 1: make sure the national security hasn't been compromised, and be 339 00:19:10,800 --> 00:19:13,840 Speaker 1: done with this. But if they feel that he has 340 00:19:14,520 --> 00:19:21,679 Speaker 1: maliciously or with reckless disregard concealed or mutilated or destroyed documents, 341 00:19:21,960 --> 00:19:25,520 Speaker 1: they may feel an obligation to prosecute. So we're dealing 342 00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:29,639 Speaker 1: with three specific federal criminal laws and it's important that 343 00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:31,840 Speaker 1: we try to break this down for our listeners, which 344 00:19:31,920 --> 00:19:34,440 Speaker 1: is why it's great to have you help us do it. Uh. 345 00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:37,080 Speaker 1: The first here part of the Espionage Act, as as 346 00:19:37,119 --> 00:19:38,920 Speaker 1: folks have been hearing us, It makes it a crime 347 00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:43,120 Speaker 1: to remove or misuse information related to national defense. Another 348 00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:46,679 Speaker 1: makes it a crime to hide, damage, or destroy government records. 349 00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:50,120 Speaker 1: And a third makes it a crime to falsify, destroy, 350 00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:53,600 Speaker 1: or cover up records to obstruct or interfere with a 351 00:19:53,680 --> 00:19:57,480 Speaker 1: federal investigation. Do these three seem obvious? Is there a 352 00:19:57,480 --> 00:20:01,160 Speaker 1: lot of overlap with with the three? What's your reaction 353 00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:04,880 Speaker 1: to these being cited? Well, they all deal in some 354 00:20:04,960 --> 00:20:10,240 Speaker 1: way or another with concealment of documents or failure to 355 00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:16,400 Speaker 1: return them. The statute concealment removal of documents without authority 356 00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:21,240 Speaker 1: the three year felony. Then seven three the next statute 357 00:20:21,280 --> 00:20:24,520 Speaker 1: side it is whoever has possession of a national defense 358 00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:28,919 Speaker 1: document and through gross negligence, permits it to be removed, or, 359 00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:32,120 Speaker 1: knowing that it's been removed, fails to report it. That's 360 00:20:32,119 --> 00:20:37,560 Speaker 1: a ten year felony, and then fifteen nineteen whoever knowingly conceals, destroys, 361 00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:41,800 Speaker 1: cover ups, etcetera. With the intent to obstruct or impede 362 00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:45,280 Speaker 1: an investigation is a twenty year felony. So you see 363 00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:50,440 Speaker 1: the range of possibilities here, and what is appropriate, if any, 364 00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:54,800 Speaker 1: will be determined by the Attorney General and his team 365 00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:57,680 Speaker 1: as they look through these documents one by one. At 366 00:20:57,680 --> 00:21:00,320 Speaker 1: the gross level. You can't say which of these applies 367 00:21:00,440 --> 00:21:04,159 Speaker 1: most applicably. But um, but that's the point, right, you 368 00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:06,280 Speaker 1: throw all three up there, and then you know that 369 00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:10,199 Speaker 1: can be figured out later. Exactly do the penalties for 370 00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:14,200 Speaker 1: any of these as as we have heard many Democrats suggest, 371 00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:20,120 Speaker 1: disqualify Donald Trump from serving in high office. Again, Well, 372 00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:30,640 Speaker 1: nineteen um implies that a federal investigation, right and and um. 373 00:21:30,720 --> 00:21:36,160 Speaker 1: One of them, specifically two oh seven one says if 374 00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:39,480 Speaker 1: you've been if you've been convicted of this statute, having 375 00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:45,280 Speaker 1: willfully and unlawfully obstructed, removed, concealed, et cetera, you shall 376 00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:49,480 Speaker 1: be disqualified from holding any office under the United States. 377 00:21:49,480 --> 00:21:57,120 Speaker 1: So one of them carries this disqualification. But many constitutional 378 00:21:57,320 --> 00:22:00,240 Speaker 1: scholars who I have spoken to once I had a 379 00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:03,680 Speaker 1: sense that this might be a statute. Yeah at play 380 00:22:03,840 --> 00:22:06,640 Speaker 1: have said, you know, I'm not so sure that that's constitutional. 381 00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:09,760 Speaker 1: I'm not so sure that Congress has the authority to 382 00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:15,000 Speaker 1: disqualify someone from holding office by merely concealing a removing 383 00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:19,840 Speaker 1: a document, so that would be a big constitutional test. 384 00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:24,080 Speaker 1: It's yet another one. We need another one, Michael, we 385 00:22:24,119 --> 00:22:26,080 Speaker 1: need a constitutional test in this kind of I haven't 386 00:22:26,080 --> 00:22:29,720 Speaker 1: had one in August yet, have we exactly? Um, this 387 00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:32,920 Speaker 1: is very helpful for us to understand here. What then, 388 00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:36,240 Speaker 1: since we just spent the last four days wondering what 389 00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:39,600 Speaker 1: was in there, just everyone talking without knowing what they're 390 00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:43,200 Speaker 1: talking about. Michael's elden, what's the next most important thing 391 00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:46,680 Speaker 1: for us to learn what's in the documents and whether 392 00:22:46,800 --> 00:22:49,960 Speaker 1: or not the just moment will release them, release the 393 00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:53,200 Speaker 1: contents of that outside of illegal filing. Remember, Merrick Garland 394 00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:56,720 Speaker 1: has been very clear that he only speaks through his 395 00:22:56,800 --> 00:23:01,000 Speaker 1: court filings, so short of leaks, we're not going to 396 00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:03,520 Speaker 1: hear officially from the Justice moment. Oh, by the way, 397 00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:06,480 Speaker 1: in box number six, we found a document which says 398 00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:09,560 Speaker 1: something that's not going to happen. So the question will 399 00:23:09,600 --> 00:23:13,679 Speaker 1: be will Merrick Garland file something that we get to 400 00:23:13,720 --> 00:23:17,560 Speaker 1: see or will there be leaks of the contents and 401 00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:20,720 Speaker 1: we'll get a hint of what's going on. So everything 402 00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:24,080 Speaker 1: now depends on what we can learn about what's inside 403 00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:26,959 Speaker 1: of these twenty boxes of documents that were just carded 404 00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:30,080 Speaker 1: off and the boxes that came before that, I mean 405 00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:33,640 Speaker 1: thirty five boxes documents. When you think of a boxer 406 00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:37,080 Speaker 1: a banker's box up documents, it's sort of a file 407 00:23:37,240 --> 00:23:41,000 Speaker 1: cabinets draw worth of materials. So they're like thirty five 408 00:23:41,119 --> 00:23:46,280 Speaker 1: filing cabinet drawers. Uh, that that were inappropriately taken by 409 00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:49,560 Speaker 1: the President's hard to say that that was by accidents 410 00:23:49,640 --> 00:23:53,920 Speaker 1: or inadvertence. I clearly need a bigger garage. I don't 411 00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:56,240 Speaker 1: know what I would do with that. Man. You know 412 00:23:56,320 --> 00:24:00,199 Speaker 1: what we're gonna hear, though. We're gonna hear is what 413 00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:03,600 Speaker 1: about is Um? What about Okama? What about that? We're 414 00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:06,760 Speaker 1: already here in exactly we'll hear that, and then we'll 415 00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:12,040 Speaker 1: also hear the defense that well Trump privately and secretly 416 00:24:12,160 --> 00:24:16,439 Speaker 1: declassified these things. So there's much ado about nothing. Michael Zelvin, 417 00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:18,200 Speaker 1: you've been a great help to us this week. Thank 418 00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:21,680 Speaker 1: you for the insights. Today A lot more straight ahead. 419 00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:26,639 Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg broadcasting live from our nation's capital, Bloomberg 420 00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:32,200 Speaker 1: to New York, Bloomberg eleven Frio to Boston, Bloomberg one 421 00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:35,960 Speaker 1: O six one to San Francisco, Bloomberg nine sixty to 422 00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:40,160 Speaker 1: the Country, Serious, XM General one and around the globe, 423 00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:44,040 Speaker 1: the Bloomberg Business app and Bloomberg Radio dot Com. This 424 00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:50,119 Speaker 1: is Bloomberg Sound On with Joe Matthew with breaking news 425 00:24:50,160 --> 00:24:52,520 Speaker 1: from Capitol Hill, because we need more. We saw it 426 00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:55,160 Speaker 1: common Actually they voted late in the House. Now does 427 00:24:55,280 --> 00:24:59,160 Speaker 1: have the votes to pass Democrats climate and tax bill. 428 00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:02,879 Speaker 1: There it goes. The vote on this package ongoing, but 429 00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:10,160 Speaker 1: Democrats have the numbers that means build back better, soft Infrastructure, 430 00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:13,639 Speaker 1: Inflation Reduction Act, whatever you want to call it, is 431 00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:16,520 Speaker 1: on its way to Joe Biden. We turned back to 432 00:25:16,560 --> 00:25:19,439 Speaker 1: what we learned today from the unsealing of the search warrant, 433 00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:21,720 Speaker 1: and there's a lot to talk about here in regard 434 00:25:21,800 --> 00:25:25,560 Speaker 1: to not just top secret information but nuclear documents. What 435 00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:28,560 Speaker 1: does that mean? As we turned back to the matter 436 00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:32,400 Speaker 1: at hand, there's so much in this docket that we're 437 00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:38,000 Speaker 1: talking about here, Espionage Act, secret files that the FBI 438 00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:42,880 Speaker 1: has compiled T S s c I documents and then 439 00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:48,199 Speaker 1: this reference to nuclear documents, which could pertain to a 440 00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:51,360 Speaker 1: lot of things. But of course we heard the from 441 00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:54,480 Speaker 1: the other side of the aisle that is not taken 442 00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:57,760 Speaker 1: part in any of this business with the FBI rate 443 00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:00,480 Speaker 1: and in many cases defending Donald Trump. We've been through 444 00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:04,080 Speaker 1: that this hour. Mike Turner, Republican from Ohio, on the 445 00:26:04,160 --> 00:26:07,760 Speaker 1: idea of classified nuclear documents earlier today in the House, 446 00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:09,840 Speaker 1: I can tell you that there are a number of 447 00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:14,879 Speaker 1: things that that are classified that fall under the umbrella 448 00:26:14,920 --> 00:26:17,840 Speaker 1: of nuclear weapons, but that are not necessarily things that 449 00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:21,840 Speaker 1: are truly classified. Um. And many of them you can 450 00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:24,280 Speaker 1: find on your own phone as we as we stand here, 451 00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:27,240 Speaker 1: and if they fall within that category, they're not an 452 00:26:27,280 --> 00:26:30,880 Speaker 1: imminent national security threat that would rise to the level 453 00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:34,200 Speaker 1: of you have to raid Donald Trump's home and spend 454 00:26:34,240 --> 00:26:37,159 Speaker 1: nine hours there. I did check my phone, and I 455 00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:40,000 Speaker 1: didn't find any, um. But I'm not sure exactly what 456 00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:42,159 Speaker 1: he was referring to. To be perfectly honest with you, 457 00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:44,960 Speaker 1: it's just a fascinating narrative going on in Washington. Nothing 458 00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:48,840 Speaker 1: agrees here again. Joel Rubin, former Deputy Assistant Secretary of 459 00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:52,560 Speaker 1: State of the Obama administration specialist on Iran and Russia, 460 00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:56,280 Speaker 1: held high level security clearances as a Deputy Assistant Secretary 461 00:26:56,280 --> 00:26:59,440 Speaker 1: of State, served to the Bush administration for a time 462 00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:03,080 Speaker 1: as well, with us now on the fastest hour in politics, Jowel, 463 00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:05,479 Speaker 1: There's a lot to talk about here, but specifically when 464 00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:08,080 Speaker 1: it comes to nuclear what do you how do you 465 00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:10,840 Speaker 1: react to Congressman Turner on that that that a lot 466 00:27:10,880 --> 00:27:17,080 Speaker 1: of essentially classified documents aren't really all that classified. Joe, 467 00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:22,720 Speaker 1: I'm a gast. Mike Turner is a congressman who for 468 00:27:22,840 --> 00:27:26,320 Speaker 1: years has been known as a quote nuclear hawk, that 469 00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:31,119 Speaker 1: someone who has been a major advocate for America's nuclear infrastructure, 470 00:27:31,160 --> 00:27:34,800 Speaker 1: for unlimited spending to ensure that we have a safe arsenal, 471 00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:39,320 Speaker 1: one that's effective, for being tough on foreign adversaries who 472 00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:42,760 Speaker 1: have or want to possess nuclear weapons. Russia and Iran 473 00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:46,600 Speaker 1: come to mind. For him to gaslight in this manner 474 00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:52,320 Speaker 1: to talk down the severity of the nuclear information that 475 00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:57,480 Speaker 1: may very well have been loose and Donald Trump's home 476 00:27:58,320 --> 00:28:01,080 Speaker 1: is just shocking and deeply pointing and for all of 477 00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:06,719 Speaker 1: us who serve the national security uh quite frankly, uh dizzying. 478 00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:10,560 Speaker 1: It doesn't make sense, Okay, But from a factual standpoint, 479 00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:14,120 Speaker 1: are there grades of classification when it comes to nuclear documents? 480 00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:18,240 Speaker 1: Can you explain that? You bet? I mean, and the 481 00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:20,159 Speaker 1: grades were on the boxes that we're taken out of 482 00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:25,439 Speaker 1: Mara Lago. UH. There are there are Q level clearances, 483 00:28:25,480 --> 00:28:28,879 Speaker 1: it's known, which is the highest. That's the nuclear of 484 00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:33,840 Speaker 1: a certain level of expertise. There's Top secret U s 485 00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:38,480 Speaker 1: c I, which is sensitive compartmentalized information, which is UH 486 00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:42,400 Speaker 1: for a limited amount of users. We call them consumers 487 00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:45,760 Speaker 1: of that information, policymakers, and then it goes down to 488 00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:48,680 Speaker 1: top secret and then down the secret UH. And so 489 00:28:49,680 --> 00:28:52,960 Speaker 1: nuclear couldn't compass variety of things from plans about the 490 00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:58,040 Speaker 1: actual infrastructure, where targets are, where infrastructure is located, to 491 00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:01,520 Speaker 1: information about our adversaries. It runs the gamut. We do 492 00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:04,280 Speaker 1: not know what's in those boxes. And the mere concept 493 00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:07,680 Speaker 1: that we're even thinking about it is a complete threat 494 00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:10,200 Speaker 1: to our allies who are going to be worried about 495 00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:13,440 Speaker 1: what has been exposed, and it undermines confidence in our 496 00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:17,720 Speaker 1: nucle air infrastructure. So back away from this because we're 497 00:29:17,720 --> 00:29:20,280 Speaker 1: obsessed with specifics today. We were so hungry from them 498 00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:22,160 Speaker 1: for them. But a lot of folks are asking, well, 499 00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:24,120 Speaker 1: what in the world was Donald Trump doing with thirty 500 00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:27,000 Speaker 1: five boxes down in maral Ago? To begin with, explain 501 00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:29,479 Speaker 1: why that's a problem to begin with, because let's say 502 00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:32,880 Speaker 1: the records, the Presidential Records Act and some of the stuff. Okay, fine, 503 00:29:32,880 --> 00:29:34,680 Speaker 1: you know what, people need to calm down. This guy 504 00:29:34,720 --> 00:29:37,360 Speaker 1: was the president as as we heard from UH, I 505 00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:40,200 Speaker 1: believe it was actually Congressman Turner. Today he's got more 506 00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:43,000 Speaker 1: classified information in his head than he ever had in 507 00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:47,200 Speaker 1: a document. What could happen to this type of material 508 00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:50,960 Speaker 1: being left relatively insecure as we know before the FBI 509 00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:53,880 Speaker 1: asked that additional lock was put on the door. What 510 00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:56,000 Speaker 1: what type of threat does that present if it's actually 511 00:29:56,000 --> 00:29:59,160 Speaker 1: living with a former president? Yeah, you know, you just 512 00:29:59,240 --> 00:30:03,960 Speaker 1: don't know. And that's why any of us, all of 513 00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:07,160 Speaker 1: us who received security currences, we were trained from day 514 00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:09,840 Speaker 1: one in a training about how to make sure you 515 00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:13,040 Speaker 1: take care of your secure classified material. Uh. The number 516 00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:15,680 Speaker 1: one line was, you can't take it home with you. 517 00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:18,840 Speaker 1: You just don't take this stuff out of the secure facility. 518 00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:21,240 Speaker 1: You leave it there, You leave it in the locker, 519 00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:23,800 Speaker 1: you leave it in the room. It never leaves. It 520 00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:26,840 Speaker 1: is unknown and for over a year plus it's sitting 521 00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:30,200 Speaker 1: in mar Lago aDNA thieves. Who knows who's running around 522 00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:32,680 Speaker 1: that place and who knows what foreign adversaries are buying 523 00:30:32,680 --> 00:30:35,240 Speaker 1: tickets to go hang out with the president and meandering 524 00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:38,040 Speaker 1: through the hallways. Label, so we don't know. That's getting 525 00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:42,960 Speaker 1: a little closer to a legitimate threat. Direct threat. You 526 00:30:43,080 --> 00:30:48,560 Speaker 1: don't bring secure classified material home to an insecure location ever, 527 00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:51,600 Speaker 1: and the president United States is not exempt from that either. 528 00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:56,040 Speaker 1: This president playing fast and loose with the nations secrets 529 00:30:56,560 --> 00:31:00,920 Speaker 1: puts us all over. We've talked about this, the fact 530 00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:04,200 Speaker 1: apparently that that Donald Trump didn't actually box up all 531 00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:07,400 Speaker 1: this stuff. He had stuff everywhere. Some of these documents 532 00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:10,200 Speaker 1: were stacked up. Uh, some of them had nothing to 533 00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:12,240 Speaker 1: do with each other. Some of them had been torn 534 00:31:12,320 --> 00:31:15,360 Speaker 1: up apparently, and so that you know, they scooped up 535 00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:17,320 Speaker 1: everything in the oval, they shipped it all down to 536 00:31:17,360 --> 00:31:24,240 Speaker 1: Marrow Lago. Uh does that suggest intent maybe on behalf 537 00:31:24,240 --> 00:31:26,160 Speaker 1: of someone else? Does the chief of staff take the 538 00:31:26,160 --> 00:31:28,400 Speaker 1: fall for that is? Did Donald Trump even know it 539 00:31:28,480 --> 00:31:31,400 Speaker 1: was in those boxes? So much for the buck stops 540 00:31:31,440 --> 00:31:34,720 Speaker 1: here right, um, because those days are long gone. Uh, 541 00:31:34,760 --> 00:31:38,000 Speaker 1: it's his house, it's his property. He was warned early 542 00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:40,640 Speaker 1: on after he left office that he had boxes and 543 00:31:40,680 --> 00:31:43,520 Speaker 1: materials and need to be returned to the government. He 544 00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:48,640 Speaker 1: refused to turn over boxes for months. It's the repeated request, right, 545 00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:54,160 Speaker 1: That's what makes this so Uh. He was subpoena in 546 00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:57,440 Speaker 1: June and they refused to comply. This was not a raid. 547 00:31:57,720 --> 00:32:00,479 Speaker 1: This was an enforcement of a subpoena that the target 548 00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:03,960 Speaker 1: of the subpoena refused to respond to. He knew it 549 00:32:04,040 --> 00:32:07,200 Speaker 1: clear as day, Joel Ruben. Great to have you with us, 550 00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:10,760 Speaker 1: former Deputy Assistant Secretary of State with us on Bloomberg 551 00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:13,320 Speaker 1: Sound On. These are the kind of voices you hear 552 00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:16,040 Speaker 1: on this program that makes sense of what in the 553 00:32:16,080 --> 00:32:21,680 Speaker 1: world is going on without reaching to the right or 554 00:32:21,720 --> 00:32:23,960 Speaker 1: the left. We just reached for the expertise. We're gonna 555 00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:27,040 Speaker 1: reassemble the panel next. Rick and Jeanie coming back. I'm 556 00:32:27,120 --> 00:32:31,640 Speaker 1: Joe Matthew and Washington. This is Bloomberg. This is Bloomberg 557 00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:38,680 Speaker 1: sond On with Joe Matthew on Bloomberg Radio. Just another 558 00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:42,440 Speaker 1: case of remarkable timing on a Friday in the summer 559 00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:46,400 Speaker 1: in Washington. Not the timing Joe Biden, I'm assuming was 560 00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:49,240 Speaker 1: hoping for or any member of the Democratic leadership, even 561 00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:52,520 Speaker 1: though they don't seem to be rooting for Donald Trump today. 562 00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:55,560 Speaker 1: But you know this is the big vote in the 563 00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:59,200 Speaker 1: US House. This is what guys like me were sent 564 00:32:59,320 --> 00:33:04,280 Speaker 1: to cover in Washington today, the Inflation Reduction Act. Look, 565 00:33:04,360 --> 00:33:06,160 Speaker 1: this was a big deal. It was a big deal 566 00:33:06,160 --> 00:33:08,239 Speaker 1: a week ago when the Senate passed. It was a 567 00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:11,480 Speaker 1: big deal a year ago when it failed. Back then 568 00:33:11,520 --> 00:33:15,360 Speaker 1: it was called build back Better. This just happened a 569 00:33:15,440 --> 00:33:18,520 Speaker 1: moment ago. On this boat. The a's are two hundred 570 00:33:18,520 --> 00:33:22,240 Speaker 1: and twenty. The names are two hundred and seven. The 571 00:33:22,400 --> 00:33:25,960 Speaker 1: realized solution, the motion is adopted. Nancy Pelosi and the 572 00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:33,520 Speaker 1: Speaker's roster, Democrats in the chamber standing and applauding. Injection 573 00:33:33,600 --> 00:33:38,280 Speaker 1: emotion to we consider is laid upon the table, not 574 00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:40,480 Speaker 1: a soul on the other side of the room. But 575 00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:43,560 Speaker 1: that's done. Let's going to the president now. Breaking news, 576 00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:45,959 Speaker 1: and you know when news breaks, we need to let 577 00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:49,040 Speaker 1: you know about it. To the point of our panel earlier, though, 578 00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:53,200 Speaker 1: do you think anybody's gonna hear about this if they 579 00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:56,160 Speaker 1: don't listen to sound on Just dial around and look 580 00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:58,720 Speaker 1: with the other news agencies are talking about. It's Trump, 581 00:33:59,080 --> 00:34:04,960 Speaker 1: it's mar Lagos, the FBI. Let's bringing our panel, Rick Davis, 582 00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:10,200 Speaker 1: Jennie Chanzano, Bloomberg politics contributors. Uh, we hit this already, Uh, Jeannie, 583 00:34:10,239 --> 00:34:12,880 Speaker 1: not not good timing for Joe Biden. But maybe in 584 00:34:12,920 --> 00:34:15,160 Speaker 1: the end this ends up being like a golden day 585 00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:19,120 Speaker 1: for him. Was this the end of his potential uh 586 00:34:19,360 --> 00:34:23,160 Speaker 1: campaign against Donald Frump? Yeah? As Biden would say, this 587 00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:26,440 Speaker 1: is a big, big deal. He'd use another choice term, 588 00:34:26,520 --> 00:34:29,440 Speaker 1: he would, and I won't use it, but it is 589 00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:34,040 Speaker 1: an enormous Dealil buttons for that's just just block me. 590 00:34:34,440 --> 00:34:37,480 Speaker 1: But you know, this gives the Democrats the opportunity to 591 00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:40,480 Speaker 1: go back home. But you know, eighty eight days essentially 592 00:34:40,480 --> 00:34:43,279 Speaker 1: before the mid term and say we delivered on the 593 00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:47,160 Speaker 1: major campaign promise. And really, as as you know, I've been, 594 00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:50,120 Speaker 1: you know, completely pessimistic about their ability to do this 595 00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:54,359 Speaker 1: against enormous odds with a fifty fifty Senate, And these 596 00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:59,320 Speaker 1: are really important developments. To slash greenhouse gas emissions by 597 00:35:00,120 --> 00:35:04,120 Speaker 1: to extend tax credits. You know, we're talking about clean energy, 598 00:35:04,480 --> 00:35:08,920 Speaker 1: We're talking about minimum corporate taxes, We're talking about enormous 599 00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:11,440 Speaker 1: changes to health care. You know, the list goes on 600 00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:15,120 Speaker 1: and on. Big priorities for Americans across the board, and 601 00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:17,800 Speaker 1: the White House has shown and Congress importantly have shown 602 00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:20,839 Speaker 1: they can deliver. And so yes, it's been drowned out 603 00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:23,719 Speaker 1: by Trump today, but there's three months or so that 604 00:35:23,800 --> 00:35:26,560 Speaker 1: they have now to go talk about it. And will 605 00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:29,480 Speaker 1: it change what happens in Congress in terms of the 606 00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:32,600 Speaker 1: makeup for the next term. Who knows. But these are 607 00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:35,000 Speaker 1: big deals and it's going to make the losses they 608 00:35:35,000 --> 00:35:37,680 Speaker 1: feel in the fall less than they may have been. 609 00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:39,439 Speaker 1: You know, one of the big stories in the last 610 00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:41,840 Speaker 1: twenty four hours, Rick and you guys talked about this, 611 00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:44,239 Speaker 1: I know yesterday is the idea that Joe Biden they're 612 00:35:44,239 --> 00:35:48,520 Speaker 1: moving ahead with a campaign. Whether he announces as another matter, 613 00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:51,279 Speaker 1: but they are taking the sort of going through the 614 00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:56,160 Speaker 1: motions of making this happen. Does this actually potentially backfire 615 00:35:56,480 --> 00:35:59,480 Speaker 1: on Joe Biden? If if if this, you know, this 616 00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:01,480 Speaker 1: gets Old Trump at the knees here, it doesn't He's 617 00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:04,359 Speaker 1: not able to run again. Did that just make it 618 00:36:04,520 --> 00:36:08,920 Speaker 1: much more difficult for Joe Biden to be reelected? Um, 619 00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:11,880 Speaker 1: you know, that's a good question. I think that Uh, 620 00:36:11,920 --> 00:36:14,240 Speaker 1: you know, there's it's a binary question as to whether 621 00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:17,680 Speaker 1: Biden runs and if he does run, who he runs against. 622 00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:19,719 Speaker 1: If he doesn't run, what does that mean for the 623 00:36:19,760 --> 00:36:22,680 Speaker 1: field of Democrats and and I think that's really where 624 00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:25,759 Speaker 1: people's heads are right now. I think that kind of 625 00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:27,239 Speaker 1: trying to figure out what's going to happen on the 626 00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:31,080 Speaker 1: Republican side, especially after the events of this week with 627 00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:33,680 Speaker 1: the investigation ramping up on Donald Trump, not just the 628 00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:38,560 Speaker 1: one that that resulted in the FBI go into mar Lago, 629 00:36:38,640 --> 00:36:41,920 Speaker 1: but all the others that are actually piling up right now. Um, 630 00:36:41,960 --> 00:36:43,839 Speaker 1: it's just too hard to tell. I mean this, I've 631 00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:46,920 Speaker 1: never been in an environment where there's so many political 632 00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:52,560 Speaker 1: unknowns about the future of the presidential cast of characters. Um, 633 00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:56,160 Speaker 1: you know, arguably four months before that campaign starts. I 634 00:36:56,160 --> 00:36:59,040 Speaker 1: mean usually you can handicap the whole thing by now, 635 00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:02,640 Speaker 1: and in this case, you can't even move until you 636 00:37:02,680 --> 00:37:06,000 Speaker 1: figure out who the top, Uh, what happens with Biden, 637 00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:08,840 Speaker 1: what happens with Trump. Yeah, well, I'm gonna remind everybody 638 00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:12,319 Speaker 1: that the first debate is set for June. We're gonna 639 00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:15,239 Speaker 1: have a debate in June. We do not have a 640 00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:18,640 Speaker 1: lot of time to figure this out. And look, unless 641 00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:20,719 Speaker 1: something changes, and it feels like the earth may be 642 00:37:20,880 --> 00:37:23,520 Speaker 1: changing under our feet in some ways, inflation is going 643 00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:26,520 Speaker 1: to be the story right, it's not. This whole story 644 00:37:26,520 --> 00:37:30,359 Speaker 1: about Donald Trump is fascinating. Larry Summer is talking about this, 645 00:37:30,680 --> 00:37:33,520 Speaker 1: UH in a really interesting interview with Bloomberg, of course, 646 00:37:34,680 --> 00:37:41,320 Speaker 1: dismayed the former Goldman Sachs guy dismayed that certain tax components, 647 00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:43,480 Speaker 1: including carried interest, were taken out of this bill at 648 00:37:43,520 --> 00:37:48,680 Speaker 1: the last minute. I think it's very sad how much 649 00:37:49,719 --> 00:37:56,000 Speaker 1: UH special interest lobbyists we're able to stop things that 650 00:37:56,120 --> 00:38:00,879 Speaker 1: are clearly in uh the public interest. Okay. I asked 651 00:38:00,960 --> 00:38:03,080 Speaker 1: Jim McGovern about that today. I asked a number of 652 00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:06,360 Speaker 1: Democratic lawmakers about it, because Larry Summers was supposed to 653 00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:08,040 Speaker 1: be the reason why this was good. He said it 654 00:38:08,040 --> 00:38:11,680 Speaker 1: would lower inflation. Jim mcgoverned, the congressman from Massachusetts chair 655 00:38:11,680 --> 00:38:13,560 Speaker 1: of the Rules Committe, spent a lot of time arguing 656 00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:15,880 Speaker 1: for this on the floor today, and he appeared on 657 00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:18,560 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Live. Well, look, I would just I would also 658 00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:21,720 Speaker 1: point out the Larry Sumbers is encouraging everybody to support 659 00:38:21,760 --> 00:38:25,560 Speaker 1: this bill, as our economists all over the all over 660 00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:28,800 Speaker 1: the country. Uh, Okay, this bill will help UH lower 661 00:38:28,840 --> 00:38:32,040 Speaker 1: the deficit. This bill will lower the costs of prescripture 662 00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:34,680 Speaker 1: drugs for senior citizens who are lower the cost of 663 00:38:34,719 --> 00:38:37,759 Speaker 1: healthcare for millions of millions of American families. And in 664 00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:41,120 Speaker 1: addition to that, it is the biggest investment to comple 665 00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:45,120 Speaker 1: combat the climate crisis in our history ever. So this 666 00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:49,040 Speaker 1: is a huge historic moment. Now the question becomes, how 667 00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:51,600 Speaker 1: do you remind pe because nobody's talking about it today, Jeanie. 668 00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:54,839 Speaker 1: There has been talk of a national tour, how about 669 00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:58,080 Speaker 1: a whistle stop tour? But Joe Biden on a train 670 00:38:58,160 --> 00:38:59,840 Speaker 1: and sent him off for a month. Is this the 671 00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:01,880 Speaker 1: kind of thing? Remember that's what they said they wished 672 00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:04,880 Speaker 1: they had done after Obamacare. That's right, and you know 673 00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:07,920 Speaker 1: he should be out and about, you know, whistle stop tours, 674 00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:10,640 Speaker 1: taking a bus however he wants to do it. Um, 675 00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:13,080 Speaker 1: I'm not you know, we don't know how many Democrats 676 00:39:13,120 --> 00:39:15,000 Speaker 1: are going to want him in some of these swing states, 677 00:39:15,040 --> 00:39:17,160 Speaker 1: but he can go where he's wanted. But you know, 678 00:39:17,239 --> 00:39:20,439 Speaker 1: I think you know there is a a as big 679 00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:22,640 Speaker 1: of a deal as this is, and it certainly is. 680 00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:26,759 Speaker 1: Larry Summers does have a point in terms of this 681 00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:30,720 Speaker 1: decision at the end, and particularly driven by Kristen Cinema, 682 00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:34,360 Speaker 1: to you know, allow what's what seems to be a 683 00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:39,000 Speaker 1: hypocrisy for for many progressive and liberal Democrats that you know, 684 00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:42,080 Speaker 1: they opted out of the closing this loophole and allow 685 00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:45,840 Speaker 1: really wealthy investors to continue. So there is a point 686 00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:48,319 Speaker 1: to be made there because of all the things that 687 00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:50,680 Speaker 1: they opted not to do the fact that it was that, 688 00:39:51,120 --> 00:39:53,799 Speaker 1: and we understand why Kristen Cinema wouldn't get on board 689 00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:57,920 Speaker 1: without it. But it does raise real questions in people's 690 00:39:57,920 --> 00:39:59,960 Speaker 1: minds as to why and what she was getting out 691 00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:02,680 Speaker 1: of making sure that didn't happen. It's gonna be an 692 00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:05,560 Speaker 1: interesting weekend ahead here, uh Rick. Most of this story 693 00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:08,359 Speaker 1: until today, really, well until Marrick Garland's spokester, has been 694 00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:10,840 Speaker 1: all about leaks, right, we heard, I guess the becush 695 00:40:10,920 --> 00:40:13,799 Speaker 1: leaks from everywhere and all sides of this story. Brightbart 696 00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:17,800 Speaker 1: for crying out loud broke uh this warrant earlier today. 697 00:40:17,840 --> 00:40:23,200 Speaker 1: That would be Steve Bannon's operation. Um does Donald Trump 698 00:40:23,239 --> 00:40:25,200 Speaker 1: bring us in on some of this now? How does 699 00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:27,960 Speaker 1: he manage any damage control from here? He's still actually 700 00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:31,120 Speaker 1: holds a lot more information than the people covering him. Oh, 701 00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:34,120 Speaker 1: I'm I can't wait for midnight because I guarantee he'll 702 00:40:34,120 --> 00:40:36,440 Speaker 1: start you know, tweeting on his uh, I guess you 703 00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:38,799 Speaker 1: can't call it tweeting, uh. Whatever he does on his 704 00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:45,080 Speaker 1: social media event. I think he is uncontrollably uh desirous 705 00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:47,879 Speaker 1: to try to manage the flow of information here. Look, 706 00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:50,680 Speaker 1: he was the reason Brightbart got that that warrant. He 707 00:40:50,760 --> 00:40:53,520 Speaker 1: had it and gave it to them and and so 708 00:40:53,520 --> 00:40:55,880 Speaker 1: so he's playing the game. He's trying to control the 709 00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:58,840 Speaker 1: narrative on here. The problem is his efforts to control 710 00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:01,920 Speaker 1: the narrative. Keep catch it up with him. I definitely 711 00:41:01,960 --> 00:41:03,919 Speaker 1: think Mark Garland got the best of him this week. 712 00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:05,839 Speaker 1: He put him on defense. He didn't play it well. 713 00:41:06,160 --> 00:41:08,960 Speaker 1: Trump on offense can be something to behold, but Trump 714 00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:11,640 Speaker 1: on defense is a disaster. And that's where he finds 715 00:41:11,680 --> 00:41:14,920 Speaker 1: himself going into the weekend. I'll tell you, Genie, does 716 00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:19,120 Speaker 1: it Does it hasten his announcement for president or delay it? 717 00:41:19,600 --> 00:41:22,360 Speaker 1: You know? I think I've always thought that it hastened 718 00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:25,120 Speaker 1: to the more that he is under legal pressure and 719 00:41:25,160 --> 00:41:27,520 Speaker 1: it looks like the d O J you know, or 720 00:41:27,560 --> 00:41:29,919 Speaker 1: you know, whatever happens with these many other lawsuits, whether 721 00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:32,160 Speaker 1: in Georgia or New York or elsewhere that he's facing, 722 00:41:32,680 --> 00:41:35,480 Speaker 1: that is going to be something that he is going 723 00:41:35,520 --> 00:41:38,160 Speaker 1: to seriously consider. And we heard that after Monday he 724 00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:42,160 Speaker 1: was celebrating, by all reports, with Republicans the fact that 725 00:41:42,440 --> 00:41:45,520 Speaker 1: this was a politically motivated raid, as he called it, 726 00:41:45,920 --> 00:41:49,280 Speaker 1: and that for that reason he was likely to announce earlier, 727 00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:52,399 Speaker 1: and more Republicans supported him in that than they had 728 00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:55,120 Speaker 1: before the quote unquote raid. So I do think he's 729 00:41:55,120 --> 00:41:57,360 Speaker 1: going to use it, and he is fundraising off of this. 730 00:41:57,440 --> 00:42:00,200 Speaker 1: He has been since Monday, so he is had been 731 00:42:00,239 --> 00:42:02,600 Speaker 1: a boon for him in that regard, and I think 732 00:42:02,640 --> 00:42:05,200 Speaker 1: he will continue that and likely will announce as a result. 733 00:42:05,560 --> 00:42:07,799 Speaker 1: We know that the d o J could take some 734 00:42:07,880 --> 00:42:11,400 Speaker 1: time before we learn more here, Rick, do you expect 735 00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:14,720 Speaker 1: another you know, visit to the podium by Marrick Garland 736 00:42:14,719 --> 00:42:17,879 Speaker 1: before November. You know, it's interesting. I mean some commentary 737 00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:20,600 Speaker 1: today which I found fascinating was, well, maybe this is 738 00:42:20,600 --> 00:42:23,120 Speaker 1: all they wanted. Maybe they just want to get these 739 00:42:23,120 --> 00:42:26,040 Speaker 1: secrets back into control of the government and get them 740 00:42:26,040 --> 00:42:28,839 Speaker 1: out of the basement of Donald Trump's place. So it's 741 00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:31,480 Speaker 1: not about being punitive. We just need to protect the 742 00:42:31,560 --> 00:42:33,680 Speaker 1: information right and so you know, at the end of 743 00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:35,960 Speaker 1: the day, we may never hear another thing about this. 744 00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:38,680 Speaker 1: If they choose not to prosecute for any reason, this 745 00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:41,440 Speaker 1: is all the story that there is UH, and they 746 00:42:41,480 --> 00:42:44,960 Speaker 1: feel well, UH, satisfied that they've received the material, they 747 00:42:45,000 --> 00:42:48,080 Speaker 1: may choose not to prosecute. So I think all these 748 00:42:48,080 --> 00:42:50,040 Speaker 1: options are ahead of us. I think there's gonna be, 749 00:42:50,120 --> 00:42:52,520 Speaker 1: as you've described it, a leak central, right. I mean, 750 00:42:52,920 --> 00:42:55,719 Speaker 1: you know, everybody's going to be trying to push a narrative, 751 00:42:55,920 --> 00:42:59,320 Speaker 1: and I suspect um. You know, for the balance of August, 752 00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:02,439 Speaker 1: this is what's to dominate our attention because Congress goes home, 753 00:43:02,480 --> 00:43:05,759 Speaker 1: they've accomplished their task, and now the vacuum is going 754 00:43:05,800 --> 00:43:08,280 Speaker 1: to be filled by Donald Trump. The Sunday morning shows 755 00:43:08,320 --> 00:43:11,120 Speaker 1: ought to be a riot. I'll have a bloody Mary. 756 00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:14,839 Speaker 1: Thanks to everybody for being on the program, including of 757 00:43:14,880 --> 00:43:17,360 Speaker 1: course our panel, Rick Davis and Jeannie Shanzano. We couldn't 758 00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:20,480 Speaker 1: do it without them. Every day, Brad Moss, Michael Zelden, 759 00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:24,719 Speaker 1: and Joel Ruben are experts helping us decipher what is 760 00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:28,600 Speaker 1: in the warrants. Beat you back here on Bloomberg