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Speaker 1: Welcome back to our classic episode Friends and Neighbors. Fellow

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Speaker 1: conspiracy realist. You know, guys, one thing that I love

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Speaker 1: about New York and New York City and Japan in particular,

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Speaker 1: is that in areas of both of those societies there's

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Speaker 1: still very much a cash is king mentality.

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Speaker 2: Hmmm, interesting. Well, you know the problem with cash. It

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Speaker 2: takes a long time to trace, even with those little

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Speaker 2: numbers on the sides of each one.

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Speaker 1: Right traceability. A lot of us listening to this episode

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Speaker 1: automatically thought, who uses cash nowadays? Now me, right, right?

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Speaker 1: I use cash pretty frequently, as I believe you do

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Speaker 1: as well, Matt. We know that the move toward the

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Speaker 1: digital currency and digital dollar is supported by big banks

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Speaker 1: as well as some countries. So in this classic episode,

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Speaker 1: we are going to explore a world without cash. From

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Speaker 1: UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is riddled

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Speaker 1: with unexplained events. You can turn back now or learn

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Speaker 1: this stuff they don't want you to know. A production

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Speaker 1: of iHeart Radios How Stuff Works.

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Speaker 2: Hello, Welcome back to the show. My name is Matt,

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Speaker 2: my name is no They.

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Speaker 1: Call me Ben. We are joined as always with our

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Speaker 1: super producer Paul Kasher credit decand most importantly, you are you.

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Speaker 1: You are here, and that makes this stuff they don't want.

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Speaker 3: You to know.

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Speaker 1: Now, we'll answer this question in a second, but we

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Speaker 1: want you to think about this as well while you're listening.

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Speaker 1: What was the last thing you purchased, literally, well, the

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Speaker 1: last thing you purchased before you turned on today's episode.

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Speaker 1: Did you use cash? Did you use a card or

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Speaker 1: ben Bucks? Or you a person who still writes a

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Speaker 1: check if you set a card. In fact, if you're

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Speaker 1: one of the people who just heard those questions and

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Speaker 1: scoffed and thought it's twenty twenty. Who on Earth bothers

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Speaker 1: with cash? Then congratulations, you're not alone? So what about us?

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Speaker 1: If as long as we're not, you know, confessing to

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Speaker 1: anything illegal. What's the last thing you guys bought?

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Speaker 3: Was it drugs?

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Speaker 2: It was drugs?

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Speaker 1: Wasn't no?

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Speaker 2: Mine was going to be groceries? Quick story. I was

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Speaker 2: at a Kroger local grocer and as soon as I've

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Speaker 2: got about probably one hundred dollars more maybe even than

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Speaker 2: that worth of food in my cart, I take it

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Speaker 2: up to check out and all of their network goes down,

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Speaker 2: and yeah, and all I got on me are cards,

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Speaker 2: and I go, oh, well, I can't put this on

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Speaker 2: the old corporate card anymore. I was really hoping to

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Speaker 2: get away with it, and I would have it wasn't

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Speaker 2: for those darned kids anyway. Okay, anyway, So I ran

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Speaker 2: across the street and I got cash out, which I

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Speaker 2: never do anymore, took it back over there, and by

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Speaker 2: the time I got back, the network was up. So really,

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Speaker 2: it's not a story. I didn't have to use my cash.

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Speaker 2: Don't rob me. I'm not carrying it on my person.

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Speaker 1: But you did, so you ultimately ended up purchasing with

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Speaker 1: a card. Yeah, I'm sorry, No, no, no, It makes

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Speaker 1: sense though, because it's.

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Speaker 2: But it's the only reason. Yeah, yeah, unless I'm traveling,

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Speaker 2: and you know, that's really the only time I'll take

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Speaker 2: out a little bit of extra cash, as it like

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Speaker 2: maybe something will come up that I won't anticipate. But

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Speaker 2: other than that, do you carry cash, guys?

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Speaker 3: I keep on my cash in my shoe, all of

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Speaker 3: it for a power move. When I have to like

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Speaker 3: give someone some cash, I pull it out on my

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Speaker 3: shoe and see if they'll take it. That's actually from

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Speaker 3: an episode of Curb Your Enthusiasm that it's never happened

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Speaker 3: to me. They'll take your shoe cash. Yeah, I used to.

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Speaker 1: I used to carry cash in a couple of different

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Speaker 1: parts of my person when I was traveling in sketchy

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Speaker 1: area is and then also when I am in cities

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Speaker 1: and used public transit a lot. It's just an old

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Speaker 1: habit to always have. Don't This may sound paranoid, but

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Speaker 1: I'm sure I'm not alone in this. I strongly believe

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Speaker 1: in not carrying all of your stuff like that in

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Speaker 1: one area. You know what I mean, If you have

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Speaker 1: something in your wallet, having twenty or fifty bucks in

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Speaker 1: your shoe is also not as crazy as it sounds.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's a smart idea. This this interesting way, nol.

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Speaker 1: Did you did you? What did you buy? Is there

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Speaker 1: anything that pops in mind where like your last purchase

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Speaker 1: or something with cash in general? In general?

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Speaker 3: I thought, I went to the breakfast bar at Whole

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Speaker 3: Foods this morning, m hmm, and I actually paid using

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Speaker 3: my Apple Pay on my phone, where you can just

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Speaker 3: hold it up to the RFID reader and then you

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Speaker 3: put your fingerprint in and then you put in your

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Speaker 3: pin and you're done.

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Speaker 1: Wow. And this as long as these systems are in place.

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Speaker 1: We see a lot of for a cashless society. Right,

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Speaker 1: You don't have to haul around large amounts of bills,

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Speaker 1: you don't have to worry about counting out or receiving change.

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Speaker 1: It really can be when everything works as simple as

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Speaker 1: putting your phone up to the RFID reader.

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Speaker 2: And it puts a level of difficulty between you and

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Speaker 2: a potential person who's going to rob you, because they

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Speaker 2: can't just take your card and then immediately use it. Generally,

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Speaker 2: there's some steps you have to take.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, then again in theory, right, So that's today's question.

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Speaker 1: What happens in a world where these sorts of interactions

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Speaker 1: Matt at the grocery store, Noel at the breakfast buffet.

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Speaker 1: What happens when those cashless transactions are the norm? What

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Speaker 1: happens when they're the mandate? Well, here are the facts.

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Speaker 1: For anybody in the audience today who happens to be

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Speaker 1: a dragon sitting atop a pile of cash, treasure, blood,

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Speaker 1: and gold, don't worry just yet. Cash is still king,

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Speaker 1: as they say, at least for now. That's because it represents,

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Speaker 1: even today the most frequent method of payment in the US.

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Speaker 1: Overall that that equals out to about thirty one percent

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Speaker 1: of all consumer transactions. And that's more than electronic transactions

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Speaker 1: credit cards, debit cards, or of course checks.

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Speaker 2: That's worldwide or no, that's.

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Speaker 3: US base, that's just in the US, just in the US.

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Speaker 2: Thirty one such a surprising statistic to me.

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Speaker 1: The US also lags behind some countries, which we'll explore

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Speaker 1: a few examples in a moment. But this also makes

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Speaker 1: me think, when's the last time you saw somebody write

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Speaker 1: a check?

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Speaker 3: It's I mean, who even takes checks anymore? It's my question.

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Speaker 1: I write, the last time I saw a check or

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Speaker 1: wrote a check, even interactive with a check, it was

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Speaker 1: for rental agreement.

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Speaker 3: That was what it was for me too, And I

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Speaker 3: didn't have any checks. So you go check, go get

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Speaker 3: checks to write a check, and.

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Speaker 1: They don't ever sell just one check unless you get

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Speaker 1: cashier's check.

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Speaker 2: That's right, that's right. I'm trying to think of other methods.

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Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure some doctors' offices, like if you're paying

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Speaker 2: a cope or something, we'll accept a check.

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Speaker 1: And grocery stores they also both have demographics that will

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Speaker 1: tend to include older people exactly.

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Speaker 3: It just seems yeah, you're right, especially the older people.

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Speaker 3: That's just more of like a you know, old school

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Speaker 3: way of paying that people don't want to fully phase

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Speaker 3: out because it makes certain customers uncomfortable. They want to

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Speaker 3: be able to do things the way they're used to

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Speaker 3: being able to do things. But inherently checks are very

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Speaker 3: inefficient means of paying because it takes a while for

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Speaker 3: the money to come out of your account. There's the

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Speaker 3: whole joke of don't cash this till Monday, you know,

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Speaker 3: like checks in the mail, checks in the mail, or aka,

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Speaker 3: I'm writing you a check that at this particular point

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Speaker 3: in time isn't any good. That's a thing that that

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Speaker 3: that is a sort of a pitfall of check writing

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Speaker 3: and accepting really more than anything.

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Speaker 1: But unlike credit cards, checks do not incur interest in

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Speaker 1: that way. So that's one appeal people could see. Also,

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Speaker 1: some people have the comfort, especially if they're locked into

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Speaker 1: the technology, they have the comfort of physically writing out

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Speaker 1: their ledger, balancing their checkbook. You know, for some people

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Speaker 1: that can feel the way that people have certain religions

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Speaker 1: feel when they are handling rosaries. I say certain religions,

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Speaker 1: but you know, like Catholicism, I guess would be the

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Speaker 1: main one yes, I'm not a rosary surgeon or doctor.

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Speaker 3: I think there are more than just Catholic Eastern Orthodox.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I just know that that's one of them.

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Speaker 3: So was that the beads thing? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so we see that despite the fact that so

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Speaker 1: many transactions do still occur in cash, for a number

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Speaker 1: of years, the United States and many many other places

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Speaker 1: have been moving away from physical currency. It's true. Fewer

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Speaker 1: and fewer adults are using printed or minted US currency

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Speaker 1: billsing coins at all. Now there are some people or

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Speaker 1: just like, why would I touch cash? It's it's dirty smells.

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Speaker 1: We have some uh, we have some filthy statistics about

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Speaker 1: about physical currency in earlier episodes.

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Speaker 3: You don't like touching change, But how do you feel

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Speaker 3: about cash?

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Speaker 1: I'm okay with it, You're okay with it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, the tactile ness of it all works for you. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: and thank you for checking, by the way, making sure. Yeah. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 3: it's a.

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Speaker 2: Lot more thong contact with the bills though.

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Speaker 3: Thong contact.

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Speaker 1: That's what I'm there for.

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Speaker 3: Oh, you mean like in the club.

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Speaker 2: I'm assuming in the club or dug club.

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Speaker 1: I guess, Well, the thong is what you make of it,

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Speaker 1: you know, Well.

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Speaker 3: You know, I keep my cash in my shoes. Some

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Speaker 3: people keep cash in their thong.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you might even have a like a little extra

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Speaker 1: compartment maybe at a hip.

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Speaker 2: Wait, is a thong not a shoe? I thought we

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Speaker 2: were talking.

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Speaker 3: That's a type of flip flop. Yes, is a component

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Speaker 3: of the flip flop. I guess you could call them thongs. Wait,

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Speaker 3: so if people say that, then what are we talking about?

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Speaker 1: Paul shrugs and says, yes, I was talking about underwear.

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Speaker 1: I was talking about sillacious undergarments.

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Speaker 3: O Oh wow, that don't be cool. You knew what

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Speaker 3: you were talking about. I had no idea. My mom

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Speaker 3: keeps her cell phone in her brazier. Is that weird?

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Speaker 1: A lot of people keep their stuff at knives, Uh,

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Speaker 1: gas cards, probably bundles of cash, sheepers, guns, bundles of cash,

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Speaker 1: money rugs.

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Speaker 3: I want to see that make a come back.

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Speaker 1: It's still around. Money clips are still around, as are

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Speaker 1: money belts, which are like the nerdy pocket protectors you

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Speaker 1: wear abroad.

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Speaker 3: Wait, so is that like a fanny pack exclusively for cash? Uh?

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Speaker 1: It doesn't have the carrying capacity of fanning packs.

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Speaker 3: But yeah, most.

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Speaker 1: Money belts will be worn underclothing and they will strap

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Speaker 1: around like a fanning pack.

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Speaker 3: Not all.

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Speaker 1: You can get some cool ones. They're like a doctor.

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Speaker 1: Uh it's not the words probably not doctors clutch, but

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Speaker 1: you know, I'm talking about the shoulder holsters for guns

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Speaker 1: that you see in different detective course, stective films and

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Speaker 1: words of fiction. This is this is interesting though. To

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Speaker 1: get back to this idea of few people using printed currency,

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Speaker 1: According to the Pew Research Center, about three and ten

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Speaker 1: Americans said they go an entire week without touching cash

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Speaker 1: at all, and that number is risen in twenty fifteen.

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Speaker 1: Used to be a quarter of the population. But at

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Speaker 1: the same time, the people who said that all or

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Speaker 1: nearly all of their purchases were made using cash, the

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Speaker 1: people were the opposite of the card holders. That number

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Speaker 1: was twenty four percent and twenty fifteen, and now it's

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Speaker 1: fallen to eighteen percent, and that trend seems set to continue.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot of research going into this on the

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Speaker 1: side of surprise, the banking system.

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Speaker 2: And Facebook and Facebook.

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Speaker 1: Yes, Facebook wants to have its own currency.

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Speaker 2: I'll check this out. In this survey of two thousand Americans,

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Speaker 2: US Bank found that half fifty percent of respondents said

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Speaker 2: they carry cash with them less than half the time

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Speaker 2: they're out. That makes sense. I can identify with that,

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Speaker 2: get it. When they do carry cash, Seventy six percent

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Speaker 2: said they keep less than fifty bucks on hand, and

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Speaker 2: nearly fifty percent have less than twenty dollars when they're

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Speaker 2: walking around, And that I think makes a lot of

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Speaker 2: sense when you're talking about the amount of money you

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Speaker 2: get generally out of an ATM or something, which is

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Speaker 2: I would say primary, the primary way you get cash

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Speaker 2: unless it's a gift or something sure, and those are

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Speaker 2: generally not always going to be twenties. So I can

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Speaker 2: imagine a twenty that you carry around because you might

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Speaker 2: need it, or forty.

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Speaker 1: Maybe your emergency stash, right exactly, if you're in a

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Speaker 1: situation where you need to pay for casual in transaction.

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Speaker 1: As we know, there are a lot of places, especially

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Speaker 1: in larger cities, that are casually.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and they won't take anything above a twenty a

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Speaker 2: lot of times.

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Speaker 1: Right, right, that's absolutely true. We see a divided demographic.

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Speaker 1: There are social implications to the cash list society because

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Speaker 1: there are surprising divides between the way that we use

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Speaker 1: currency digital or physical today. Even before some weird sci

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Speaker 1: fi stuff. We know that there are clear demographic divides here.

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Speaker 1: One of the first, which should not surprise anyone, is age.

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Speaker 1: The second one should surprise people, But the first one

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Speaker 1: is age. We know that the younger you are, the

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Speaker 1: less likely you are to use cash.

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Speaker 3: Funny thing. I was actually at the courthouse the other

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Speaker 3: day for jury duty. I was very lucky that I

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Speaker 3: actually got selected to be on a jury, and you

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Speaker 3: were lucky. Well, I didn't get to the lucky Yes, okay,

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Speaker 3: but I was selected to be on a jury and

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Speaker 3: the case wrapped in that same day. And I have

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Speaker 3: to say I actually, quite once I made peace with

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Speaker 3: the whole thing that I was going to be there,

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Speaker 3: you know, until seven o'clock at night, and knew that

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Speaker 3: it was pretty much guaranteed to wrap that day. I

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Speaker 3: really enjoyed the whole process. But in the cafeteria of

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Speaker 3: of the courthouse, they say twenties only accepted for purchases

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Speaker 3: over a certain dollar amount, which was a very specific

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Speaker 3: caveat that I'd never seen before for accepting twenties.

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Speaker 2: That's odd, really too.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I've seen I've seen that before. And then it's

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Speaker 1: usually I would say, rather than something the farious that

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Speaker 1: typically is going to be the due to the fact

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Speaker 1: that the tills only have so much change they can

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Speaker 1: make right, you know, it makes sense. They probably can't

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Speaker 1: go to a bank and get that crack down to fives.

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Speaker 3: It makes sense.

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Speaker 1: And also how many people, how many people make a

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Speaker 1: tiny purchase to break a twenty so that they can

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Speaker 1: pay for parking or they can pay for some other

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Speaker 1: related incidents.

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Speaker 3: I didn't think about the parking deal because that's a

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Speaker 3: big part of going to the courthouse, is PA for parking.

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Speaker 1: They don't validate it at the courthouse. Yeah, definitely don't.

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Speaker 1: The benefits of citizenship do not go that far.

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Speaker 2: Nope. So let's come back to these demographics really fast. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I want to hit on age, which again makes I

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Speaker 2: think a lot of sense when you're thinking about this issue.

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Speaker 2: So younger people, let's call them millennials, tend to ditch

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Speaker 2: f physical cash for you know, stuff that you can

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Speaker 2: do on your phone or things you can use virtually

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Speaker 2: like credit, debit, digital payments, Apple, pay venmo Zell. It

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Speaker 2: just goes on and on. PayPal. In fact, more than

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Speaker 2: one in ten millennials use this thing. They're digital wallet.

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Speaker 2: The thing on your phone that you probably have access

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Speaker 2: to right now if you want it. They use that

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Speaker 2: for every purchase. And that is according to a separate

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Speaker 2: report made by experience.

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Speaker 1: Right So that's not pure research anymore, that's experience. And

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Speaker 1: we see that overall, thirty four percent, let's call it

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Speaker 1: one third of adults under the age of fifty typically

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Speaker 1: don't use cash. That's that's a crazy number. People over

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Speaker 1: fifty years old, the number is much lower. Only twenty

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Speaker 1: three percent of people over fifty say I've gotten a

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Speaker 1: whole week without using physical currency. But here is one

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Speaker 1: of the distressing demographic divides. This is the one that

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Speaker 1: should give us food for thought. We do see divisions

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Speaker 1: along economic lines, along the lines of just straight income.

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Speaker 1: It turns out, no matter who you are in the US,

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Speaker 1: if you have an annual household income of over seventy

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Speaker 1: five grand, you are more than twice as likely to

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Speaker 1: avoid using physical cash than someone who's making thirty thousand

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Speaker 1: dollars or less per year. That let's look at this

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Speaker 1: a different way. Lower income adults in this country are

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Speaker 1: four times as likely as higher income adults to say

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Speaker 1: that they make all or almost all of their purchases

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Speaker 1: with cold hard scratch cheddar. Pony bones is another one, right, do.

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Speaker 3: We have another one? Wasn't there pony bones? That's a

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Speaker 3: good one. Wan them. Okay, I don't know bread. Bread's good.

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Speaker 3: I like I like bread.

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Speaker 1: I want to bring back bread. Yeah, scrilla, scrilla is good.

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Speaker 1: You said scratch aren't here? Scratch greatly catch. Well, that's

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Speaker 1: a cool thing. This quote, out of context will sound strange.

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Speaker 1: That's the cool thing about a capitalist society. You know,

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Speaker 1: love it or hate it. People can use almost any

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Speaker 1: term to describe money, and everyone else in the room

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Speaker 1: will get it. You know what I mean.

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Speaker 2: I got like forty drags.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it was a couple of toe knuckles short on that.

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Speaker 1: So I got the hamburger instead of the cheeseburger.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it was. It was. I couldn't believe they wanted

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Speaker 2: me to spend ninety nine more sclounced to upgrade to.

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Speaker 1: That are scounced Yes, yeah, exactly. This is already a

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Speaker 1: controversial topic, the idea of a world without physical currency,

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Speaker 1: but it's only going to grow more controversial over the

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Speaker 1: next few years, and we're going to see programming wars

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Speaker 1: about it. This is going to be a hearts and

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Speaker 1: minds conflict, especially in developed countries. They're experts out there

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Speaker 1: who will tout the benefits of a cashlest economy, and

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Speaker 1: they have valid points. They'll say, well, it's more safe

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Speaker 1: for people working in retail, the people who work at

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Speaker 1: all night convenience stores and have that sign that says

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Speaker 1: we keep no more than x amount of dollars in

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Speaker 1: the register and it's time released. We can't let you

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Speaker 1: into the safe. That doesn't matter.

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Speaker 3: You know, stick people up with a thumb drive in

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Speaker 3: the future and say transfer all of your digital money

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Speaker 3: to me. That's gonna make it a whole.

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Speaker 2: Hell of a lot harder. Sounds sci fi, but I'm

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Speaker 2: pretty sure that's something that could happen. Those card readers.

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Speaker 2: You can just put it in your cell phone and

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Speaker 2: if somebody has a gun and a friend has a

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Speaker 2: cell phone with a card reader, you're.

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Speaker 3: Talking about square based robberies. Yeah, robbering and robbing an individual.

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Speaker 2: That's what I'm taking you out of.

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Speaker 3: Their pocket, holding them up and saying swiper. That's actually

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Speaker 3: a really good point. Matter that happens a lot. That

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Speaker 3: happens a lot. Does it work. I've never heard reports

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Speaker 3: of that, but it makes perfect sense.

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Speaker 1: People get would robbed and forced to go to ATMs happened. Yes,

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Speaker 1: that's very common, but that's still a cash situation.

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Speaker 3: But it starts with the card. It does. But you could,

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Speaker 3: are u you that you could track the robbery if

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Speaker 3: someone used their.

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Speaker 1: Space and you can, but think about so. We have

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Speaker 1: many people listening today who have found uh, fraudulent charges

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Speaker 1: on their cards. The bank will hopefully return that, refund

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Speaker 1: it whatever. But the person who did that, you know,

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Speaker 1: who took that cash or made usually made a purchase somewhere.

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Speaker 1: They don't have to worry about it. They're gone, they've

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Speaker 1: skidaddled to the horizon and are you know, like capering

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Speaker 1: around the pile of other stolen credit cards they have.

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Speaker 1: But that so we already see holes in the argument

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Speaker 1: of safety, right. We also see to the point you

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Speaker 1: just made know what, We also see that there is

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Speaker 1: an ease of tracking otherwise suspicious or occulted payments that

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Speaker 1: exist in the gray, red and black markets. For anybody

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Speaker 1: wondering what the gray red and black markets are and

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Speaker 1: what the difference is between them, the black market is

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Speaker 1: all the illegal dark Web stuff. The gray market would

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Speaker 1: be things that are not inherently illegal, but maybe skirt

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Speaker 1: some of the regulations in a transaction, you know what

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Speaker 1: I mean.

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Speaker 2: The red market is all about human trafficking.

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Speaker 3: Yes, I'm just kidding.

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Speaker 1: No, you're right, the red market is organ trade.

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Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, I thought we were going there, but I

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Speaker 2: wasn't sure. I thought maybe you had something up your sleeve.

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Speaker 1: And check out our shows on the red market, and

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Speaker 1: every show we do somehow touches on the black market

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Speaker 1: at some point. But with this we also see a

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Speaker 1: lot of criticism. So just as there are proponents on

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Speaker 1: the side of the concept of a cashless economy, there

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Speaker 1: are vocal critics, and they're asking, could a truly cashless

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Speaker 1: society just be another step along the path toward an

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Speaker 1: all powerful or wellyan dictatorship. Will this spell the end

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Speaker 1: of financial privacy if such a thing still exist today,

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Speaker 1: which is a different question, And then what will a

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Speaker 1: world without cash mean? And what happens in the future

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Speaker 1: where bills and coins literally just become collectible items, you know,

403
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Speaker 1: like old stamps. Are the critics, in short right to

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Speaker 1: be concerned.

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Speaker 2: We'll learn about that right after a word from our sponsor.

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Speaker 3: Here's where it gets crazy.

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Speaker 1: The short answer is absolutely and it seems that both

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Speaker 1: the proponents of this concept and the opponents of this

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Speaker 1: concept are going to see their theories in action. The

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Speaker 1: rubber will hit the road, and much sooner rather than later.

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Speaker 1: In fact, the cash list society already exist in some places.

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Speaker 1: It's much further along than we might like to think.

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Speaker 3: Right So in Sweden right now, only one percent of

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Speaker 3: the economy operates on currency, on cash, on paper and coins.

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Speaker 3: That is a tenth of the rate elsewhere in Europe.

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Speaker 3: We know the Swedes are always up on the latest trends,

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Speaker 3: so that makes sense, and they're really good at kind

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Speaker 3: of streamlining things and making things pretty efficient. So it's

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Speaker 3: interesting to see how it's working out there. And this

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Speaker 3: is only one eighth of the rate here in the

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Speaker 3: United States of folks and areas that are going cash list.

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Speaker 3: So the New York Times says it only about one

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Speaker 3: in ten Swedes paid for anything, anything at all in

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Speaker 3: cash in twenty seventeen. That's amazing. Think about that.

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Speaker 1: You are one of ten people in Sweden you meet

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Speaker 1: up once a year and you say, what did you buy?

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Speaker 1: Because you have weird Swedish parties, I don't know. That

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Speaker 1: means that only one person in the room has been

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Speaker 1: cash on anything.

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Speaker 3: You should call that number, ask a Swede and see

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Speaker 3: if if they bought anything with cash in twenty seven.

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Speaker 1: That's a great that's a great idea. Unfortunately they pulled

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Speaker 1: the number. I no longer call a Swede. Shame. It

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Speaker 1: is a shame. I had a lot of fun with

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Speaker 1: that one, and I hate phone call.

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Speaker 3: You actually called it? Yeah, ask why not? I just

437
00:23:06,920 --> 00:23:08,480
Speaker 3: you know, it's one of the things you talk about

438
00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:10,720
Speaker 3: but you never do. With Ben, you're a man of action.

439
00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:14,320
Speaker 1: Well, I spoke with a one time. Particularly sticks out

440
00:23:14,359 --> 00:23:19,200
Speaker 1: my head. I spoke with a delightful retired lady and

441
00:23:19,600 --> 00:23:22,240
Speaker 1: it was a great experience. I hope she's doing well.

442
00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:23,840
Speaker 1: I don't think she listens to the show.

443
00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:27,880
Speaker 3: So what are what are the big the big red flags,

444
00:23:27,920 --> 00:23:30,720
Speaker 3: the big concerns about you know, you know, we always

445
00:23:30,760 --> 00:23:33,359
Speaker 3: think of Sweden as everyone's happy and idyllic and living

446
00:23:33,400 --> 00:23:38,600
Speaker 3: in you know, tiny homes or whatever and not spending cash.

447
00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:41,760
Speaker 1: They seem happy, they're rocking ABBA twenty four to seven.

448
00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:44,120
Speaker 1: You know, that's right, that has to be the only way.

449
00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:46,520
Speaker 1: But what's that's what's the issue. If they if they

450
00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:48,320
Speaker 1: say they seem like they like it, they seem like

451
00:23:48,320 --> 00:23:50,800
Speaker 1: they have a good quality of life. Where does where

452
00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:54,320
Speaker 1: does it break down? Yeah, yeah, that's the that's the

453
00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:57,520
Speaker 1: twenty billion dollar question or one dollar depending on how

454
00:23:57,680 --> 00:23:59,680
Speaker 1: inflation works out.

455
00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:01,879
Speaker 3: We have easily.

456
00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:05,480
Speaker 1: Discernible concerns about a cash list economy, and no doubt

457
00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:09,800
Speaker 1: in this show we will be preaching to the choir partially. First,

458
00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:12,639
Speaker 1: we have to look back at what we've already proven.

459
00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:16,359
Speaker 1: We've proven there is an inherent economic divide between the

460
00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:20,160
Speaker 1: haves and the have nots when it comes to cash.

461
00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:22,520
Speaker 1: The less money you make, the more likely you are

462
00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:25,439
Speaker 1: to use cash. In general. It's very broad brush, but

463
00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:28,879
Speaker 1: so far everything we found proves that this is the case.

464
00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:34,040
Speaker 1: This means that it is highly likely that a purely

465
00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:38,560
Speaker 1: digital society could spell disaster for low income residents people

466
00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:43,480
Speaker 1: who tend to use physical currency. So to introduce some

467
00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:47,520
Speaker 1: jargon here, which is I think a little bit disturbing,

468
00:24:49,040 --> 00:24:52,600
Speaker 1: there are a couple industry terms. One is unbanked and

469
00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:56,680
Speaker 1: one is underbanked. They mean what they sound like. Underbanked

470
00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:59,439
Speaker 1: means that there's a financial institution that says, hey, this

471
00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:02,800
Speaker 1: person should be more included in our system. And unbanked means.

472
00:25:03,080 --> 00:25:05,400
Speaker 1: I don't know how, but this joker is living under

473
00:25:05,440 --> 00:25:08,600
Speaker 1: the table. They're only using cash for everything, They've deleted

474
00:25:08,600 --> 00:25:11,600
Speaker 1: their Facebook, you know, et cetera, et cetera. It has

475
00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:14,320
Speaker 1: these implications that if you are not participating in the

476
00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:21,320
Speaker 1: financial system, you are either deprived or potentially dangerous. It's

477
00:25:21,320 --> 00:25:22,560
Speaker 1: a little bit of a what do you call it,

478
00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:25,119
Speaker 1: Chomsky esque Bernese esque packaging.

479
00:25:25,520 --> 00:25:28,840
Speaker 2: Well, we can see how that somewhat makes sense, especially

480
00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:33,200
Speaker 2: if you think with my migration issues here in the

481
00:25:33,800 --> 00:25:37,680
Speaker 2: United States alone, like just residency, and if you are

482
00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:41,840
Speaker 2: here by some means that is outside of the legal

483
00:25:42,520 --> 00:25:46,000
Speaker 2: ways of staying here in the United States, then the

484
00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:48,080
Speaker 2: only way to go is to not have a bank

485
00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:51,360
Speaker 2: account and to use cash for everything, because that if

486
00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:53,840
Speaker 2: you were to get a bank account, your identity would

487
00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:56,600
Speaker 2: be attached to it and you'd be found out.

488
00:25:56,680 --> 00:26:00,879
Speaker 3: It's the same as voter id laws. There's arguments that

489
00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:04,480
Speaker 3: that disenfranchises people because it affects, you know, people that

490
00:26:04,520 --> 00:26:07,560
Speaker 3: are in poverty who maybe can't can't get an idea

491
00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:10,080
Speaker 3: or for whatever reason, or living outside the law in

492
00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:12,000
Speaker 3: some capacity, yeah.

493
00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:14,840
Speaker 2: Or never have enough money at any one time to

494
00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:18,240
Speaker 2: keep in a bank. So to the point where they're

495
00:26:18,280 --> 00:26:20,840
Speaker 2: not being charged for not having enough money in the

496
00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:21,480
Speaker 2: bank at all.

497
00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:24,520
Speaker 3: Times, because let's not forget that is absolutely a thing. Yeah,

498
00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:29,280
Speaker 3: which is so insane going for the privilege of getting

499
00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:30,280
Speaker 3: your money out.

500
00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:35,080
Speaker 1: Future historians will take note of that. I would hope

501
00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:40,800
Speaker 1: on this point we also see the problem of prerequisite paperwork.

502
00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:44,680
Speaker 1: Right you want a bank account and you don't have

503
00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:49,639
Speaker 1: proof of residency one, maybe proof of identity two. And

504
00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:52,919
Speaker 1: similar to the voter ID stuff, this is this is

505
00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:54,720
Speaker 1: a way, I know it feels like a strong word,

506
00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:59,159
Speaker 1: but this is a way to potentially financially disenfranchise people

507
00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:04,000
Speaker 1: and they are forced to work with the smaller and

508
00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:08,080
Speaker 1: smaller slice of the financial pie that does allow cash dealing.

509
00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:13,720
Speaker 1: Right now, there is a trend, the downward trend. Fewer

510
00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:18,199
Speaker 1: and fewer people are quote unquote unbanked or underbanked. But

511
00:27:18,680 --> 00:27:20,919
Speaker 1: between five and eighteen percent of people living in this

512
00:27:20,960 --> 00:27:25,480
Speaker 1: country currently don't possess credit cards. And I would say,

513
00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:28,400
Speaker 1: well done. You know, no judgment if you have one.

514
00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:32,199
Speaker 1: They are useful, right if you're responsible with them. But

515
00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:34,679
Speaker 1: there are a lot of people who have very valid

516
00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:38,119
Speaker 1: reasons that they don't want to interact with credit cards,

517
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:41,919
Speaker 1: and this leads us to the ultimate question regarding this

518
00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:47,119
Speaker 1: first concern. Should paying customers, potentially paying customers be barred

519
00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:49,920
Speaker 1: from stores or restaurants because they don't have, you know,

520
00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:54,520
Speaker 1: an American Express or a Visa or a Discover or

521
00:27:54,560 --> 00:27:59,359
Speaker 1: of course the last word in credit a diner's club.

522
00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:03,520
Speaker 3: That's still a thing. Seemed to have maybe gone the

523
00:28:03,520 --> 00:28:04,240
Speaker 3: way of checks.

524
00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:08,919
Speaker 1: It's still around. Surely, surely diners Club is still around.

525
00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:10,919
Speaker 1: Who wants to dine and not be in a club?

526
00:28:12,359 --> 00:28:14,680
Speaker 2: Is that similar to a triple A or is that?

527
00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:17,719
Speaker 3: I think the idea is that you subscribe to it

528
00:28:17,760 --> 00:28:22,520
Speaker 3: and it gives you discounts places that accept it or something.

529
00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:27,520
Speaker 1: It was the first card really, it was like the

530
00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:32,800
Speaker 1: first you would call payment card company in history. I

531
00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:36,520
Speaker 1: think Now technically it's owned by Discover, So there you go.

532
00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:39,440
Speaker 1: So diners Club is no longer independent.

533
00:28:39,160 --> 00:28:40,720
Speaker 3: Institution, though you know they want to hold on to

534
00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:41,320
Speaker 3: that branding.

535
00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:43,560
Speaker 1: I watched one of the old commercials. You can still

536
00:28:43,560 --> 00:28:44,440
Speaker 1: see them on YouTube.

537
00:28:44,800 --> 00:28:48,960
Speaker 2: Can we talk about something here, guys. Yeah, the concept

538
00:28:49,240 --> 00:28:57,520
Speaker 2: of not using digital currencies or credit cards out of

539
00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:01,640
Speaker 2: preference because they you just somebody doesn't like it because

540
00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:04,360
Speaker 2: my Dad is one of those people where he very

541
00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:07,320
Speaker 2: much will be carrying around cash on purpose to do

542
00:29:07,360 --> 00:29:09,440
Speaker 2: everything he's going to do for that day or for

543
00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:12,560
Speaker 2: that trip or that week. He will make all the

544
00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:15,760
Speaker 2: purchases in cash and then he's done with it.

545
00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:18,720
Speaker 1: And that's tremendously convenient, right, because then that makes a

546
00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:19,920
Speaker 1: purchase stand alone.

547
00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:23,840
Speaker 2: Yes, right, and his books are balanced because he did

548
00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:25,880
Speaker 2: that one transaction of taking the cash out.

549
00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:30,440
Speaker 1: And he's right. So this leads into the huge second concern,

550
00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:33,600
Speaker 1: which is privacy. And this is a concern that should

551
00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:37,720
Speaker 1: be in the forefront of everyone's mind. It's only becoming

552
00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:41,600
Speaker 1: more important over time because, like you said, Matt, many

553
00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:45,280
Speaker 1: people who do not use credit cards avoid them out

554
00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:49,440
Speaker 1: of preference rather than necessity. So do we start telling

555
00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:52,680
Speaker 1: these people then that they must use these methods of

556
00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:58,479
Speaker 1: payment while everyone knows very well that we're essentially making

557
00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:03,760
Speaker 1: these people contribute to increasingly thorough and sophisticated profiles of

558
00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:08,520
Speaker 1: their individual lives each and every time they make a purchase.

559
00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:13,400
Speaker 1: And then do we just be pollyanna about it, as

560
00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:17,600
Speaker 1: Dan would say, do we just sort of fiddle d

561
00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:21,120
Speaker 1: d our way around the fact that this is one

562
00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:25,120
Speaker 1: piece of a larger profile that may involve other aspects

563
00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:29,440
Speaker 1: of your personal life. Do we ignore those implications? We cannot.

564
00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:32,600
Speaker 1: We'll dive further into the rabbit hole. After a word

565
00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:43,960
Speaker 1: from our sponsors, we're back. Let's go a little further

566
00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:48,400
Speaker 1: away from the light of what's proven and explore the

567
00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:53,479
Speaker 1: shadows beyond the things that could happen, that might happen

568
00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:59,440
Speaker 1: that haven't happened yet, or, most distressingly, the things that

569
00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:03,560
Speaker 1: maybe happen happening now despite the fact that no one's

570
00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:07,840
Speaker 1: really talking about them on your local news affiliate. This

571
00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:11,680
Speaker 1: is the first one. What if private financial powers are

572
00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:15,720
Speaker 1: pushing cashless currency as a way to rest control of

573
00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:20,760
Speaker 1: money from the state. This may feel kind of small

574
00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:24,040
Speaker 1: for some of us, but the fact of the matter

575
00:31:24,160 --> 00:31:30,800
Speaker 1: is that historically, the ability to print money, the ability

576
00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:33,640
Speaker 1: to be the person who determines the value of whatever

577
00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:39,560
Speaker 1: these coupons or articles of faith may be. That ability

578
00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:45,720
Speaker 1: the sovereign creator, originator of currency. This power is something

579
00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:49,120
Speaker 1: that is tremendously important to states. It's up there with

580
00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:52,760
Speaker 1: having the ability to legally kill people. It's up there

581
00:31:52,800 --> 00:31:56,520
Speaker 1: with having the ability to have a standing army. Right.

582
00:31:56,680 --> 00:32:00,000
Speaker 1: This is a life and death thing. Economically for life

583
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:01,280
Speaker 1: to state actors.

584
00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:02,400
Speaker 2: How do you pay for a standing army if you

585
00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:04,760
Speaker 2: can't print your own currency, You've got to rely on

586
00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:05,320
Speaker 2: somebody else.

587
00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:08,880
Speaker 1: How do you maintain an army if you cannot be

588
00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:11,720
Speaker 1: the one who determines the value of money? You know

589
00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:14,400
Speaker 1: what I mean? So what if this? What if this

590
00:32:14,560 --> 00:32:19,000
Speaker 1: becomes something where let's say, the United States of America

591
00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:25,240
Speaker 1: or Sweden, New Zealands, whatever whatever place you wanna you

592
00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:29,560
Speaker 1: wanna name. What if there's a situation where a country's

593
00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:34,760
Speaker 1: entire currency then becomes controlled by a consortium of financial

594
00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:39,680
Speaker 1: powers or a single financial power. You know what I mean?

595
00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:40,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.

596
00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:45,640
Speaker 1: What if Chase Manhattan one day decides to you know,

597
00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:49,880
Speaker 1: that they think Nigeria is a problem, so they just

598
00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:53,400
Speaker 1: remove their access at financial network where they say, because

599
00:32:53,400 --> 00:32:55,960
Speaker 1: we are the source, because we are the faucet through

600
00:32:56,000 --> 00:33:01,400
Speaker 1: which this financial fluid flows, we will cut off the faucet.

601
00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:04,680
Speaker 3: And like, I mean, you could argue bad pr move.

602
00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:09,600
Speaker 3: Sure is it their right to do that? Yes, if

603
00:33:09,600 --> 00:33:10,360
Speaker 3: they control it?

604
00:33:10,400 --> 00:33:13,560
Speaker 1: I mean, might makes right in this situation, you know,

605
00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:17,000
Speaker 1: especially if they have the backing of other antagonistic state

606
00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:22,040
Speaker 1: powers and Nigeria rightly says, hey, we should be in

607
00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:25,880
Speaker 1: charge of our currency, and then maybe Western Powers say, nah,

608
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:28,440
Speaker 1: we talk to the folks at Chase Manhattan. We've got

609
00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:30,360
Speaker 1: a pretty good case. We're gonna make this a win

610
00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:31,720
Speaker 1: win for everyone. Right.

611
00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:35,840
Speaker 2: It's weird. It reminds me of resource extraction problems in

612
00:33:35,920 --> 00:33:39,240
Speaker 2: other countries, like with oil and the control of over

613
00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:41,640
Speaker 2: oil fields, and whether it's a state run thing or

614
00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:44,680
Speaker 2: a privately run thing. And then what happens when somebody

615
00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:47,880
Speaker 2: comes in and wants yours, wants to control yours, like

616
00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:50,920
Speaker 2: a foreign entity wants to come in and control your

617
00:33:50,960 --> 00:33:55,080
Speaker 2: currency or the transactions at least that occur in your country.

618
00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:55,640
Speaker 2: M h.

619
00:33:56,840 --> 00:34:00,000
Speaker 1: I mean, and you know, evidence proves I don't know why.

620
00:33:59,880 --> 00:34:02,560
Speaker 1: This is why everybody is still pretending this is some

621
00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:05,800
Speaker 1: sort of controversial or hot take. Evidence proves that the

622
00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:10,120
Speaker 1: reason Western Powers got involved in Libya and create a

623
00:34:10,160 --> 00:34:14,680
Speaker 1: regime change was entirely because the French government wanted to

624
00:34:14,719 --> 00:34:19,080
Speaker 1: retain hegemonic control over the currency. And I'm not I'm

625
00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:23,360
Speaker 1: not defending Momar Gadaffi. I'm not picking a horse in

626
00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:26,440
Speaker 1: the race. That's just what happened. And you can you

627
00:34:26,480 --> 00:34:28,840
Speaker 1: can google it, you can search it because at this

628
00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:33,480
Speaker 1: point the truth of that conflict does not matter to

629
00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:35,239
Speaker 1: I mean to the people who would censor it.

630
00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:39,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, of course, baby, it's passed the news cycles whatever, right,

631
00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:43,960
Speaker 2: And that went quick too. We talked about that for

632
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:44,680
Speaker 2: like two weeks.

633
00:34:45,160 --> 00:34:49,680
Speaker 1: Dusty tones of currency and international trade? Why why would

634
00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:51,239
Speaker 1: you dedicate time to that?

635
00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:51,520
Speaker 3: Man?

636
00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:56,080
Speaker 1: The Mandalorian season one is out? Huh maybe a baby

637
00:34:56,160 --> 00:34:59,919
Speaker 1: Yoda was on currency? People would care more or the child?

638
00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:03,480
Speaker 3: She speaking of currency and baby Yoda? Did you hear

639
00:35:03,520 --> 00:35:05,200
Speaker 3: that Build a Bear is coming out with a baby

640
00:35:05,280 --> 00:35:09,200
Speaker 3: Yoda plushy fly off the shelves. Man, that's going to

641
00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:12,839
Speaker 3: become its own currency. I tell you the kids, they

642
00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:14,600
Speaker 3: love the baby Yoda. You know who else loves the

643
00:35:14,600 --> 00:35:15,080
Speaker 3: baby Yoda?

644
00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:15,520
Speaker 1: Everyone?

645
00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:16,600
Speaker 3: Literally everyone else.

646
00:35:16,640 --> 00:35:21,960
Speaker 2: It's yeah, yeah, we'll get your get your cashless wallets out,

647
00:35:23,239 --> 00:35:25,319
Speaker 2: start scanning them at the Build a Bear.

648
00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:30,040
Speaker 1: I mean, make no mistake, right, That's what people want

649
00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:32,000
Speaker 1: you to do. That's what the people in control of

650
00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:34,480
Speaker 1: the money want you to do. They want you to

651
00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:37,480
Speaker 1: not spend cash to buy your Yoda Build a Bear.

652
00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:40,400
Speaker 3: Well, and funny too, the language that even like you know,

653
00:35:40,480 --> 00:35:43,080
Speaker 3: Apple uses in terms of the app on your phone

654
00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:45,680
Speaker 3: that stores all your your money and your cards that

655
00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:48,160
Speaker 3: you can scan in. They call it a wallet. Everyone's

656
00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:51,480
Speaker 3: using that terminology because people are comfortable with that, you know.

657
00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:54,680
Speaker 3: But at the end of the day, they're trying they

658
00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:57,560
Speaker 3: it would behoove them to move away from a cashless

659
00:35:57,560 --> 00:35:59,960
Speaker 3: economy everyone. They want people to spend money on the

660
00:36:00,120 --> 00:36:03,759
Speaker 3: line and have it be one click purchases using your thumbprint,

661
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:05,759
Speaker 3: you know, like so you don't even have time to

662
00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:06,600
Speaker 3: think about it.

663
00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:10,799
Speaker 1: Right, we do. We do see some interesting psychology at

664
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:14,760
Speaker 1: play there, and this has moved to be absolutely crystal clear.

665
00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:20,000
Speaker 1: This has moved far beyond some kind of boardroom conversation

666
00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:24,920
Speaker 1: or some professors different opinions arguing in a civil manner

667
00:36:25,239 --> 00:36:29,319
Speaker 1: the war for how you spend money, and it is

668
00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:33,000
Speaker 1: turning into a war that this war has gone to

669
00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:36,480
Speaker 1: the streets. If you live in the Western world, you

670
00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:41,560
Speaker 1: have seen banks shutting down, branches, shutting down ATMs, right,

671
00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:47,480
Speaker 1: automatic teller machines. This is not for nothing are they

672
00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:51,240
Speaker 1: doing this. This is an attempt to push consumers into

673
00:36:51,520 --> 00:36:54,920
Speaker 1: using those digital payment systems first, and using that digital

674
00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:59,879
Speaker 1: banking infrastructure, because again, there is tremendous power in own

675
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:03,279
Speaker 1: i mean the system. I would also say there's a

676
00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:08,319
Speaker 1: profit motive. This isn't necessarily this isn't inherently nefarious if

677
00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:13,200
Speaker 1: you believe what the official statements of the banks say.

678
00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:17,880
Speaker 1: There's a clear cost cutting motive here, because if you

679
00:37:17,880 --> 00:37:20,480
Speaker 1: have a branch, you have to have staff, you have

680
00:37:20,520 --> 00:37:23,200
Speaker 1: to have security, You have to pay these people, right

681
00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:28,080
Speaker 1: and if you replace them with a self service app,

682
00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:31,759
Speaker 1: your banking app, you can check on your phone. You

683
00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:34,080
Speaker 1: can just use that information to buy things. You can

684
00:37:34,120 --> 00:37:36,360
Speaker 1: put your card number in your Amazon account and what

685
00:37:36,480 --> 00:37:36,799
Speaker 1: have you.

686
00:37:37,120 --> 00:37:39,160
Speaker 2: You can take a picture of your check if you

687
00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:41,680
Speaker 2: just got paid and it gets deposited.

688
00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:45,959
Speaker 1: What That's pretty nuts, right, And you have to wonder

689
00:37:45,960 --> 00:37:47,160
Speaker 1: about the technology there.

690
00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:51,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, sorry, that just blew my mind. When I watched

691
00:37:51,480 --> 00:37:53,920
Speaker 2: my wife do that, I went, you can wide, no, no,

692
00:37:54,080 --> 00:37:55,839
Speaker 2: you can't take that to the bank right now.

693
00:37:56,000 --> 00:37:57,680
Speaker 3: I didn't believe it at first either.

694
00:37:57,800 --> 00:38:02,399
Speaker 1: I think has some security issues. But when you put

695
00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:07,760
Speaker 1: everybody into a system like this, you're saving the executives

696
00:38:07,960 --> 00:38:11,400
Speaker 1: of the banking institutions a ton of money, right, and

697
00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:14,800
Speaker 1: that does translate to the bottom line, saving shareholders cash

698
00:38:14,840 --> 00:38:20,680
Speaker 1: as well. You're also allowing in a way you're allowing

699
00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:26,480
Speaker 1: another revenue stream, a passive revenue stream, and you, the customer,

700
00:38:26,560 --> 00:38:28,480
Speaker 1: by the way, you get nothing.

701
00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:32,120
Speaker 3: It's a Willy Wonka moment, right, Or it could be

702
00:38:32,280 --> 00:38:35,080
Speaker 3: you believe in nothing Lebowski. That's what I'm making.

703
00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:35,359
Speaker 2: Yeah.

704
00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:39,439
Speaker 1: So so that makes sense and it's a business. There's

705
00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:42,600
Speaker 1: nothing wrong with that. But also people need to be

706
00:38:42,680 --> 00:38:49,320
Speaker 1: aware that your transactions in an entirely electronic system become

707
00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:53,840
Speaker 1: another package that can be sold to data aggregators without

708
00:38:54,239 --> 00:38:58,160
Speaker 1: anything other than your blanket approval because you didn't read

709
00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:01,040
Speaker 1: the terms and conditions when you clicked what Who.

710
00:39:00,880 --> 00:39:02,680
Speaker 3: Would Who would do that? Who would not read the

711
00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:06,680
Speaker 3: terms and conditions? Literally everybody?

712
00:39:06,719 --> 00:39:08,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, as I say, all of the employees who just

713
00:39:08,400 --> 00:39:10,200
Speaker 2: lost all their jobs to the app?

714
00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:13,440
Speaker 3: Oh boy? But wait a minute, though, it is all

715
00:39:13,480 --> 00:39:17,920
Speaker 3: these transactions are encrypted, right, I mean what are they selling?

716
00:39:18,280 --> 00:39:25,720
Speaker 3: They're selling just the contents the Yeah, okay, that makes sense.

717
00:39:26,239 --> 00:39:29,520
Speaker 3: So you can't exactly tie it to an individual per se,

718
00:39:29,600 --> 00:39:32,520
Speaker 3: but you can tie it to a demographic or you

719
00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:35,279
Speaker 3: can tie it. Yeah, I wonder how it's used, if

720
00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:37,960
Speaker 3: it's if it's anonymized in that way, like how granular

721
00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:40,120
Speaker 3: are do you think that information gets for folks that

722
00:39:40,200 --> 00:39:40,760
Speaker 3: buy it.

723
00:39:40,760 --> 00:39:41,840
Speaker 1: It's still evolving.

724
00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:43,920
Speaker 3: Really yeah, oh yeah interesting.

725
00:39:44,640 --> 00:39:47,640
Speaker 1: And this I mean think about how if you are

726
00:39:47,680 --> 00:39:51,040
Speaker 1: an Apple iPhone user, depending on the model of iPhone

727
00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:54,399
Speaker 1: you have. Think about how if you spend time doing

728
00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:58,000
Speaker 1: routine things, your phone, depending on the settings, will just

729
00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:04,920
Speaker 1: start proposing alerts or alarms for you. Right that. It's

730
00:40:04,960 --> 00:40:08,640
Speaker 1: it's a similar to similar reach into your brain. So

731
00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:12,719
Speaker 1: banks did a Comcast move or Exfinity or whatever you

732
00:40:12,800 --> 00:40:14,600
Speaker 1: want to call it. So there was a when net

733
00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:16,520
Speaker 1: neutrality was still a huge debate.

734
00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:17,160
Speaker 2: UH.

735
00:40:17,600 --> 00:40:24,080
Speaker 1: Comcast was one of the companies lobbying intensely to remove

736
00:40:24,239 --> 00:40:28,240
Speaker 1: net neutrality to be able to sell you an Internet

737
00:40:28,280 --> 00:40:31,920
Speaker 1: agreement the same way that you would agree to a

738
00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:36,080
Speaker 1: cable package like a la carte certain channels, right right,

739
00:40:36,239 --> 00:40:40,399
Speaker 1: So you can you can pay for basic Google or Wikipedia,

740
00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:42,399
Speaker 1: but then if you want to go visit something else,

741
00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:46,719
Speaker 1: you have to pay the Internet service provider. So of

742
00:40:46,760 --> 00:40:51,000
Speaker 1: course it's a cash grab obviously, But the main, the

743
00:40:51,440 --> 00:40:53,439
Speaker 1: main point, the reason I bring this up is that

744
00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:57,279
Speaker 1: when asked about this, Comcast said things like, well, we

745
00:40:57,360 --> 00:41:01,319
Speaker 1: talked to consumers and they want more choice. That's what

746
00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:04,120
Speaker 1: we're giving them. We're giving them more choice.

747
00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:06,400
Speaker 3: That is such bulk.

748
00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:10,600
Speaker 2: Well guess what the banks are saying, Hey, all these customers,

749
00:41:10,600 --> 00:41:12,600
Speaker 2: they want to do everything online, they want to do

750
00:41:12,640 --> 00:41:15,720
Speaker 2: everything electronically. We're giving them what they want.

751
00:41:16,160 --> 00:41:19,759
Speaker 3: But that's such circular or like you know, inherently flawed logic,

752
00:41:19,840 --> 00:41:21,920
Speaker 3: as they're saying, we're going to give you more choices

753
00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:24,480
Speaker 3: by limiting your choices than selling you back the choices

754
00:41:24,520 --> 00:41:27,319
Speaker 3: you originally had at an a la carte premium in

755
00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:28,520
Speaker 3: the Comcast case.

756
00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:31,399
Speaker 2: And this one is just they're just saying, hey, we'd

757
00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:34,880
Speaker 2: rather do this the fast way through my phone or

758
00:41:34,920 --> 00:41:37,880
Speaker 2: whatever than having to go to a bank, do cash,

759
00:41:37,960 --> 00:41:38,759
Speaker 2: do that kind of thing.

760
00:41:38,840 --> 00:41:41,440
Speaker 1: Well, think about it, think about the argument this way.

761
00:41:41,520 --> 00:41:44,799
Speaker 1: Let's let's walk through it. The argument for the financial

762
00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:49,560
Speaker 1: institutions is, hey, we're not saying people have to do this.

763
00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:53,080
Speaker 1: We are reacting to what our customers want because we

764
00:41:53,120 --> 00:41:56,279
Speaker 1: are very customer focused. You know, we're here to make

765
00:41:56,360 --> 00:41:59,439
Speaker 1: you guys happy. But what they're what they're actually doing,

766
00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:01,520
Speaker 1: if you look at the behaviors and you look at

767
00:42:01,520 --> 00:42:05,359
Speaker 1: the policies and play, their activities can form much more

768
00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:10,120
Speaker 1: closely to a concept from behavioral economics. Which is called nudging.

769
00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:12,160
Speaker 1: And we've talked about this a little bit when we

770
00:42:12,280 --> 00:42:15,640
Speaker 1: talked about opting in or opting out on a driver

771
00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:18,520
Speaker 1: to be an organ donor and a driver's license application.

772
00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:23,480
Speaker 1: If people are automatically opted in, then they're much less

773
00:42:23,560 --> 00:42:27,200
Speaker 1: likely to opt out. Also, shout out to a listener.

774
00:42:27,239 --> 00:42:30,760
Speaker 1: You wrote to us and brought up a fantastic point.

775
00:42:30,800 --> 00:42:34,520
Speaker 1: They said some people would be against being organ donors

776
00:42:34,560 --> 00:42:38,920
Speaker 1: on their license because they genuinely believe that if they're

777
00:42:38,960 --> 00:42:42,160
Speaker 1: in a traumatic injury and they're they're in a touch

778
00:42:42,160 --> 00:42:45,799
Speaker 1: and go situation in a hospital and they are marked

779
00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:49,080
Speaker 1: as an organ donor in some cases, the medical professionals

780
00:42:49,160 --> 00:42:52,600
Speaker 1: might just let them go or not try as hard

781
00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:53,800
Speaker 1: to keep them around.

782
00:42:54,080 --> 00:42:56,480
Speaker 2: Yeah, shout out to Sterling for writing to us.

783
00:42:56,640 --> 00:42:59,440
Speaker 1: Yes, thank you so much, Sterling. That was a fantastic point.

784
00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:03,440
Speaker 1: Nudging is like that. Let's say everybody does option A.

785
00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:05,880
Speaker 1: It doesn't matter what option A is. It could be

786
00:43:06,040 --> 00:43:09,719
Speaker 1: a burrito bowl, it could be uh, it could be

787
00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:13,880
Speaker 1: paining with cash, you know, it could be uh, what

788
00:43:15,160 --> 00:43:16,920
Speaker 1: are those what are those things that used to be

789
00:43:16,960 --> 00:43:18,080
Speaker 1: on the front of pants, the.

790
00:43:18,040 --> 00:43:20,880
Speaker 3: Little wrinkles, cleats, pleats.

791
00:43:21,120 --> 00:43:25,839
Speaker 1: Yes, it could be pleated pants Option A, but you

792
00:43:25,920 --> 00:43:28,799
Speaker 1: want whichever, whatever business you are, you want people to

793
00:43:28,800 --> 00:43:31,239
Speaker 1: do option B. People are more used to option A.

794
00:43:31,480 --> 00:43:34,279
Speaker 1: They understand it, they get it. That burrito bowl makes

795
00:43:34,320 --> 00:43:36,799
Speaker 1: sense to me. I like to pay with cash. I've

796
00:43:36,840 --> 00:43:41,400
Speaker 1: always had these pants. What you do instead, instead of

797
00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:44,680
Speaker 1: saying you have to pay with a card, or you

798
00:43:44,840 --> 00:43:47,640
Speaker 1: have to order the casadia, or you have to wear

799
00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:51,919
Speaker 1: unpleated pants, you just make it slowly and slowly more

800
00:43:52,040 --> 00:43:55,520
Speaker 1: difficult to get that burrito bowl. Now it's no longer

801
00:43:55,560 --> 00:43:57,239
Speaker 1: on the menu. You can still order it, but you

802
00:43:57,320 --> 00:43:59,920
Speaker 1: have to make it a custom order. You can still

803
00:44:00,080 --> 00:44:02,120
Speaker 1: pay with cash, but you have to go to one

804
00:44:02,160 --> 00:44:05,040
Speaker 1: certain line in the grocery store. You can still wear

805
00:44:05,680 --> 00:44:08,480
Speaker 1: pleated pants, but they're not making any new ones.

806
00:44:08,920 --> 00:44:11,839
Speaker 2: You can see this at work if you've ever this

807
00:44:11,920 --> 00:44:14,080
Speaker 2: is odd. But if you've ever been on a turnpike

808
00:44:14,280 --> 00:44:16,600
Speaker 2: or a you know a road where you have to

809
00:44:16,640 --> 00:44:19,000
Speaker 2: pay for the privilege to a toll road where you

810
00:44:19,000 --> 00:44:20,759
Speaker 2: have to pay for the privilege to be on that road,

811
00:44:21,560 --> 00:44:24,080
Speaker 2: where in a lot of the lanes. When I was

812
00:44:24,080 --> 00:44:26,600
Speaker 2: a kid growing up, it was all you would pay

813
00:44:26,640 --> 00:44:30,160
Speaker 2: cash to get through or money basically, right, then it

814
00:44:30,239 --> 00:44:32,239
Speaker 2: became well you can pay cash or you can pay

815
00:44:32,320 --> 00:44:34,960
Speaker 2: with a card of some sword. Well, then it became

816
00:44:35,320 --> 00:44:38,239
Speaker 2: a system where you can pay to put a thing

817
00:44:38,280 --> 00:44:40,440
Speaker 2: on your car that lets you run like ride right

818
00:44:40,440 --> 00:44:44,839
Speaker 2: through the toll and but generally you could just they

819
00:44:44,840 --> 00:44:46,880
Speaker 2: had i think two lanes in a lot of places,

820
00:44:46,960 --> 00:44:49,279
Speaker 2: especially on the floor to turnpike, where you could use

821
00:44:49,320 --> 00:44:53,000
Speaker 2: that special cashless system, but then everybody else got to

822
00:44:53,040 --> 00:44:55,640
Speaker 2: go and pay, and then you kind of over all

823
00:44:55,680 --> 00:44:59,719
Speaker 2: the years, the cashless system began moving further and further

824
00:44:59,800 --> 00:45:02,600
Speaker 2: to the right on the highway where all the lanes are.

825
00:45:02,640 --> 00:45:04,440
Speaker 2: Then that and then you can only really take one

826
00:45:04,520 --> 00:45:06,920
Speaker 2: or two lanes to pay with cash.

827
00:45:06,760 --> 00:45:10,560
Speaker 1: Because the rest it's essentially a subscription service. You're subscribing

828
00:45:10,600 --> 00:45:14,120
Speaker 1: to the road exactly. And it's true, well it's what

829
00:45:14,120 --> 00:45:16,440
Speaker 1: you're doing with a card. Really, you're subscribing to a

830
00:45:16,480 --> 00:45:18,360
Speaker 1: company that is just going to cycle money for you.

831
00:45:18,560 --> 00:45:22,040
Speaker 1: You're you're subscribing to that sandbox. Everything you buy or

832
00:45:22,080 --> 00:45:25,480
Speaker 1: purchase use in that sandbox. Their eyes are on it.

833
00:45:25,560 --> 00:45:29,080
Speaker 1: Just not inherently bad. And also there's to be completely fair,

834
00:45:29,640 --> 00:45:32,839
Speaker 1: there is a great argument about how you have how

835
00:45:32,880 --> 00:45:35,239
Speaker 1: long it takes to make that shift. You know, you'd

836
00:45:35,360 --> 00:45:37,160
Speaker 1: leave a lot of people out in the cold if

837
00:45:37,200 --> 00:45:38,800
Speaker 1: you just turn everything cashless.

838
00:45:38,840 --> 00:45:41,239
Speaker 3: That's what we're saying, right, Eventually that sandbox gets so

839
00:45:41,400 --> 00:45:45,880
Speaker 3: big that you don't get to play if you don't

840
00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:49,080
Speaker 3: participate in it, you know, because the sandbox takes up

841
00:45:49,080 --> 00:45:53,680
Speaker 3: the entire playground and no more swings, it's all it's

842
00:45:53,719 --> 00:45:56,160
Speaker 3: all just a sandbox, exactly, exactly.

843
00:45:56,200 --> 00:45:59,239
Speaker 1: And in that case, for this, if you add a

844
00:45:59,280 --> 00:46:03,920
Speaker 1: million dollars cash in a cashless society, that doesn't matter

845
00:46:04,200 --> 00:46:06,719
Speaker 1: until the moment you take that cash to a financial

846
00:46:06,719 --> 00:46:10,000
Speaker 1: institution and they take that physical cash from you, and

847
00:46:10,040 --> 00:46:13,080
Speaker 1: they put some bleeps in, some bloops in their computer system,

848
00:46:13,200 --> 00:46:16,680
Speaker 1: and now you're a millionaire who can use their money.

849
00:46:17,320 --> 00:46:21,359
Speaker 1: That's crazy. That is just I get the logic behind it,

850
00:46:21,680 --> 00:46:24,560
Speaker 1: But if you think about it, like explaining that to

851
00:46:24,760 --> 00:46:28,000
Speaker 1: an extraterrestrial or to someone who's never heard of money,

852
00:46:28,239 --> 00:46:29,799
Speaker 1: that sounds kind of arbitrary.

853
00:46:29,960 --> 00:46:32,480
Speaker 3: Is there an argument that this thing would also eliminate

854
00:46:32,680 --> 00:46:37,239
Speaker 3: like some aspects of crime, Yeah, because I mean, you

855
00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:40,520
Speaker 3: know the idea of money laundering is turning dirty cash

856
00:46:40,560 --> 00:46:43,640
Speaker 3: into some other form or whatever. And if you can't

857
00:46:43,960 --> 00:46:45,960
Speaker 3: spend the cash in the first I don't know, you

858
00:46:45,960 --> 00:46:47,879
Speaker 3: know what I mean, like yeah, or you know again,

859
00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:51,760
Speaker 3: drugs is a transactional cash economy in and of itself,

860
00:46:51,760 --> 00:46:55,440
Speaker 3: of scale, what happens then you know exactly And not

861
00:46:55,600 --> 00:46:57,759
Speaker 3: that I know this personally, but I know a lot

862
00:46:57,800 --> 00:47:00,759
Speaker 3: of drug dealers do take VENMO. That's a thing.

863
00:47:01,040 --> 00:47:04,359
Speaker 1: You just be mindful of the emoji you choose to use.

864
00:47:04,640 --> 00:47:06,840
Speaker 3: Right, So it's true.

865
00:47:07,160 --> 00:47:10,920
Speaker 1: We should also say that cutting costs, in addition to

866
00:47:11,040 --> 00:47:14,080
Speaker 1: increasing government surveillance potential, which I think is what we're

867
00:47:14,120 --> 00:47:16,880
Speaker 1: getting at, it also could save a lot of money

868
00:47:17,480 --> 00:47:20,040
Speaker 1: for a government because now think about it, you can

869
00:47:20,080 --> 00:47:23,799
Speaker 1: shut down the mint. You don't need to pay like

870
00:47:23,840 --> 00:47:28,520
Speaker 1: in the US, we pay a quasi public I believe

871
00:47:28,760 --> 00:47:31,760
Speaker 1: is the euphemism we use. We pay a quasi public

872
00:47:32,000 --> 00:47:35,800
Speaker 1: entity to create that stuff more or less out of nothing,

873
00:47:35,920 --> 00:47:40,239
Speaker 1: and then charge us for doing that. And now you're

874
00:47:40,280 --> 00:47:43,319
Speaker 1: out of that, you're potentially out of that relationship. So

875
00:47:43,360 --> 00:47:47,680
Speaker 1: you can save money on infrastructure, you can increase whatever

876
00:47:47,680 --> 00:47:50,080
Speaker 1: you want to call your surveillance system, probably call it

877
00:47:50,200 --> 00:47:53,239
Speaker 1: national defense or security. You know, something people will vote for.

878
00:47:54,320 --> 00:47:58,000
Speaker 1: But let's get back to the nudge. How do we

879
00:47:58,080 --> 00:48:01,359
Speaker 1: do this. There's a journalist name Brett Scott who wrote

880
00:48:01,400 --> 00:48:04,600
Speaker 1: a great piece for The Guardian over in the UK,

881
00:48:05,280 --> 00:48:10,480
Speaker 1: and Scott found a great real life example. Until I

882
00:48:10,560 --> 00:48:16,040
Speaker 1: heard your anecdote about toll roads, Matt, this was my

883
00:48:16,120 --> 00:48:18,560
Speaker 1: favorite one. This is still my favorite one. We just

884
00:48:18,600 --> 00:48:21,920
Speaker 1: pulled the quote. This should hit anybody. This should hit

885
00:48:21,960 --> 00:48:24,239
Speaker 1: at home if you've been to a grocery store and

886
00:48:24,280 --> 00:48:25,680
Speaker 1: here's the quote from Brett Scott.

887
00:48:25,840 --> 00:48:28,640
Speaker 2: We can illustrate this with the example of self checkout

888
00:48:28,680 --> 00:48:32,360
Speaker 2: tills at supermarkets. Yes, again, this is obviously the best example.

889
00:48:32,680 --> 00:48:36,000
Speaker 2: The underlying agenda is to replace checkout staff with self

890
00:48:36,040 --> 00:48:39,480
Speaker 2: service machines to cut costs, but supermarkets have to convince

891
00:48:39,520 --> 00:48:43,319
Speaker 2: their customers. They thus initially present self checkout as a

892
00:48:43,360 --> 00:48:47,279
Speaker 2: convenient alternative. When some people then use that alternative, the

893
00:48:47,320 --> 00:48:50,319
Speaker 2: supermarket can cite that as evidence of a change in

894
00:48:50,360 --> 00:48:54,000
Speaker 2: customer behavior and say, hey, I'm just this is Matt now, Hey,

895
00:48:54,040 --> 00:48:56,680
Speaker 2: that's what they want, right back to the quote, which

896
00:48:56,760 --> 00:48:59,719
Speaker 2: they then used to justify a reduction in checkout in

897
00:48:59,760 --> 00:49:02,600
Speaker 2: play ployees. This in turn makes it more inconvenient to

898
00:49:02,719 --> 00:49:06,239
Speaker 2: use the checkout staff, which in turn makes customers more

899
00:49:06,400 --> 00:49:10,200
Speaker 2: likely to use the machines. Then slowly they'll wean you

900
00:49:10,280 --> 00:49:15,120
Speaker 2: off staff completely and nudge you just gently towards self service.

901
00:49:15,640 --> 00:49:18,000
Speaker 2: And that is certainly a thing that has been happening,

902
00:49:18,040 --> 00:49:20,560
Speaker 2: and we can see it over the course at least

903
00:49:20,560 --> 00:49:24,040
Speaker 2: in the waves that have been coming over the past what.

904
00:49:24,160 --> 00:49:28,640
Speaker 1: Decade, for sure, I mean, And also think about think

905
00:49:28,680 --> 00:49:34,600
Speaker 1: about how irrelevant the data they pull is. If you

906
00:49:34,640 --> 00:49:38,280
Speaker 1: want something to sound like a good decision, sure it's

907
00:49:38,280 --> 00:49:41,719
Speaker 1: a good decision if you say fifty plus percent of

908
00:49:41,760 --> 00:49:45,279
Speaker 1: our customers prefer self checkout, but you can also say

909
00:49:46,360 --> 00:49:50,759
Speaker 1: eight to ten percent of our customers immediately jumped on

910
00:49:50,880 --> 00:49:54,400
Speaker 1: self checkout, which is an indicator of a positive trend,

911
00:49:54,640 --> 00:49:57,520
Speaker 1: because it was zero, So it doesn't matter. The numbers

912
00:49:57,520 --> 00:49:58,720
Speaker 1: don't really matter well.

913
00:49:58,760 --> 00:50:04,839
Speaker 2: And also, I mean just the reality of having let's

914
00:50:04,880 --> 00:50:09,200
Speaker 2: say six self checkout lines or lanes available, whatever you

915
00:50:09,200 --> 00:50:12,200
Speaker 2: want to call them terminals and you've only got two

916
00:50:12,239 --> 00:50:15,919
Speaker 2: people on staff who are actually working in the supermarket

917
00:50:16,040 --> 00:50:16,879
Speaker 2: checking people out.

918
00:50:17,440 --> 00:50:22,120
Speaker 1: Right, Now, that's less you have to pay into insurance.

919
00:50:22,200 --> 00:50:24,480
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, it's all of that, but it's also if

920
00:50:24,480 --> 00:50:27,719
Speaker 2: you're a customer standing there, even if you want to

921
00:50:27,760 --> 00:50:30,920
Speaker 2: go and actually interact with a person and do it

922
00:50:30,960 --> 00:50:33,840
Speaker 2: that way, it's going to move a lot slower. And

923
00:50:33,880 --> 00:50:35,279
Speaker 2: you know it is just by the fact that there

924
00:50:35,320 --> 00:50:38,120
Speaker 2: are only two of those versus six of these, right right,

925
00:50:38,520 --> 00:50:41,040
Speaker 2: So the line is going to move faster with the

926
00:50:42,200 --> 00:50:44,759
Speaker 2: self checkout anyway. It's just there's so much psychology. I

927
00:50:44,760 --> 00:50:46,959
Speaker 2: love that we're talking about this nudge in this way.

928
00:50:47,320 --> 00:50:51,319
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, to be completely clear, this is just

929
00:50:51,719 --> 00:50:58,120
Speaker 1: one person's opinion, one person's perspective. I'm all about minimizing

930
00:50:58,200 --> 00:51:01,640
Speaker 1: human contact. I have a self jet that's fine, you

931
00:51:01,680 --> 00:51:05,359
Speaker 1: know what I mean. That's going into data collection thing

932
00:51:05,400 --> 00:51:08,360
Speaker 1: which I know have hobbyhorsed about earlier. It's like when

933
00:51:08,640 --> 00:51:12,080
Speaker 1: when you call an automated line for utility bill or something,

934
00:51:12,200 --> 00:51:16,160
Speaker 1: and now because they want to gather vocal data on you,

935
00:51:16,480 --> 00:51:18,600
Speaker 1: not because they hate you, but because they want to

936
00:51:19,280 --> 00:51:23,160
Speaker 1: they want to sell that to help increase the sophistication

937
00:51:23,239 --> 00:51:26,640
Speaker 1: of voice recognition technology. I hate that it's too much

938
00:51:26,719 --> 00:51:29,200
Speaker 1: like talking to a person. Let me push one, let

939
00:51:29,200 --> 00:51:31,680
Speaker 1: me push one, then let me push four or nine

940
00:51:31,840 --> 00:51:33,600
Speaker 1: or whatever, and keep it moving.

941
00:51:33,920 --> 00:51:34,520
Speaker 3: I hear you.

942
00:51:34,600 --> 00:51:37,920
Speaker 2: I think just this is the last thing I think. Primarily,

943
00:51:37,960 --> 00:51:42,120
Speaker 2: I'm just speaking to the number of people that are

944
00:51:42,160 --> 00:51:44,879
Speaker 2: being put out of jobs through these something like this,

945
00:51:45,040 --> 00:51:46,960
Speaker 2: and will continue to be put out of jobs and

946
00:51:47,120 --> 00:51:49,360
Speaker 2: may not be able to find a suitable job for

947
00:51:49,440 --> 00:51:52,120
Speaker 2: them anywhere else, because it's the kind of thing where

948
00:51:52,120 --> 00:51:54,719
Speaker 2: you don't need to have a ton of education. There's

949
00:51:54,760 --> 00:51:57,480
Speaker 2: a lot they're like, this is a good job, a supermarket,

950
00:51:57,480 --> 00:52:01,120
Speaker 2: it can be, it can be eat job, and it's

951
00:52:01,120 --> 00:52:03,680
Speaker 2: just one of the things that it's going away, like

952
00:52:03,840 --> 00:52:09,200
Speaker 2: so many other positions on our planet for someone who

953
00:52:10,080 --> 00:52:12,520
Speaker 2: just didn't happen to go and get a degree in

954
00:52:12,600 --> 00:52:13,799
Speaker 2: one field or another.

955
00:52:13,640 --> 00:52:18,160
Speaker 1: And drown and debt. Right, well, here, let's emphasize that too.

956
00:52:18,200 --> 00:52:19,600
Speaker 1: I don't want to lose what you're saying. I think

957
00:52:19,640 --> 00:52:25,560
Speaker 1: it's profound. We are moving, in theory, potentially, if everything

958
00:52:25,640 --> 00:52:29,279
Speaker 1: works out, we're moving toward a post work economy, the

959
00:52:29,400 --> 00:52:33,840
Speaker 1: kind of the post scarcity stuff you hear about in

960
00:52:34,400 --> 00:52:39,040
Speaker 1: fictional universes like Star Trek. However, before we get there,

961
00:52:39,239 --> 00:52:41,640
Speaker 1: even if we do it, really kick ass job of it.

962
00:52:41,719 --> 00:52:44,600
Speaker 1: Before we get to the post work economy, we're going

963
00:52:44,640 --> 00:52:48,640
Speaker 1: to walk through the dark woods of the post worker economy,

964
00:52:48,960 --> 00:52:52,360
Speaker 1: wherein people still have all the same human needs, but

965
00:52:52,800 --> 00:52:56,120
Speaker 1: the system has changed such that the task we have

966
00:52:56,200 --> 00:52:58,520
Speaker 1: to do to satisfy those needs, like having a job

967
00:52:58,640 --> 00:53:03,320
Speaker 1: or participating the coup on system, those options will be gone.

968
00:53:04,000 --> 00:53:07,200
Speaker 1: And this, this is a real This is a real

969
00:53:07,239 --> 00:53:09,520
Speaker 1: and frightening thing. And you just got to watch ads

970
00:53:09,520 --> 00:53:11,520
Speaker 1: all day. You just have to watch ads all day

971
00:53:11,560 --> 00:53:12,560
Speaker 1: like in black mirror, and.

972
00:53:12,640 --> 00:53:15,040
Speaker 2: Your allocated funds have to go, you know, have to

973
00:53:15,040 --> 00:53:17,640
Speaker 2: be spread out a certain amount every quarter.

974
00:53:17,480 --> 00:53:20,719
Speaker 1: And your blinks and attention are accounted. Cover your cameras

975
00:53:20,840 --> 00:53:21,719
Speaker 1: for people.

976
00:53:21,440 --> 00:53:24,720
Speaker 2: Seriously, so so.

977
00:53:26,040 --> 00:53:27,880
Speaker 3: I think I'm the only one at this table here

978
00:53:27,920 --> 00:53:29,279
Speaker 3: that doesn't have their camera cover.

979
00:53:29,880 --> 00:53:33,000
Speaker 1: I cover on my laptop, I cover my I cover

980
00:53:33,080 --> 00:53:35,200
Speaker 1: one of the cameras with a sticker that says yay.

981
00:53:35,280 --> 00:53:37,520
Speaker 1: Because I'm trying to work on being a more positive place.

982
00:53:37,560 --> 00:53:38,879
Speaker 2: This really does say yay.

983
00:53:40,480 --> 00:53:42,960
Speaker 1: It's one day at a time, guys. So let's go

984
00:53:43,040 --> 00:53:47,880
Speaker 1: back to Scott, because Scott also traces this purely decorporate profit.

985
00:53:48,440 --> 00:53:51,520
Speaker 1: He says, quote payments companies such as Visa and MasterCard

986
00:53:51,560 --> 00:53:54,720
Speaker 1: want to increase the volume of digital payment services they sell,

987
00:53:54,960 --> 00:53:57,400
Speaker 1: while banks want to cut cost. So it is a

988
00:53:57,440 --> 00:54:02,239
Speaker 1: win win for those two genre of entity but he

989
00:54:02,400 --> 00:54:07,239
Speaker 1: continues with a little bit of psychology about the nudge,

990
00:54:07,760 --> 00:54:10,239
Speaker 1: and it's this, the nudge is it's a two part

991
00:54:10,320 --> 00:54:13,000
Speaker 1: con Maybe that's unfair for me to call it that.

992
00:54:13,040 --> 00:54:16,200
Speaker 1: It's a two part process. If you want to call

993
00:54:16,239 --> 00:54:19,200
Speaker 1: it a con, be my guest.

994
00:54:19,320 --> 00:54:20,640
Speaker 2: I didn't call it a con that was you mean

995
00:54:21,360 --> 00:54:22,200
Speaker 2: that was that was?

996
00:54:22,320 --> 00:54:24,600
Speaker 1: That was me? And again that's we have to be

997
00:54:24,680 --> 00:54:27,720
Speaker 1: very careful. That's one person's opinion. So first, the idea

998
00:54:27,719 --> 00:54:32,240
Speaker 1: is that we we increase the inconvenience of using cash

999
00:54:32,360 --> 00:54:37,640
Speaker 1: ATMs and physical branches, we increase the barrier cost to it. Right,

1000
00:54:37,680 --> 00:54:40,319
Speaker 1: It's harder to find one, maybe the hours are more

1001
00:54:40,320 --> 00:54:44,600
Speaker 1: and more limited, and so on, and maybe fewer places

1002
00:54:44,640 --> 00:54:47,879
Speaker 1: except cash, like Starbucks is starting to experiment with cashless,

1003
00:54:48,960 --> 00:54:52,120
Speaker 1: cashless shops and so on. So the second step is

1004
00:54:52,719 --> 00:54:55,360
Speaker 1: it's not enough to make it a pain in the

1005
00:54:55,440 --> 00:54:59,160
Speaker 1: ass to do this stuff. To really sell the nudge,

1006
00:54:59,760 --> 00:55:08,440
Speaker 1: then we need to aggressively, almost militantly promote our chosen alternative,

1007
00:55:08,480 --> 00:55:16,160
Speaker 1: our chosen successor of behavior. We're making people learn that

1008
00:55:16,200 --> 00:55:19,399
Speaker 1: they want digital, We're presenting it to them as though

1009
00:55:19,400 --> 00:55:25,600
Speaker 1: it is their idea, right, and then they are functioning

1010
00:55:26,000 --> 00:55:27,839
Speaker 1: under the illusion that they have chosen it.

1011
00:55:29,000 --> 00:55:31,360
Speaker 2: I am so glad I can use this now. And

1012
00:55:31,440 --> 00:55:34,520
Speaker 2: I got to be able to use this because the

1013
00:55:34,520 --> 00:55:36,359
Speaker 2: alternative was just so terrible. Hm.

1014
00:55:37,000 --> 00:55:39,880
Speaker 1: And you know, of course this again, this is not

1015
00:55:40,000 --> 00:55:43,759
Speaker 1: inherently insidious. This is a profit motive, right, and for

1016
00:55:44,000 --> 00:55:47,880
Speaker 1: many people, at least according to the Banks research, for

1017
00:55:47,960 --> 00:55:49,680
Speaker 1: many people, this is the way they want to go.

1018
00:55:50,400 --> 00:55:53,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's pretty crazy, agreed.

1019
00:55:53,560 --> 00:55:57,440
Speaker 1: So let's look at let's look at the possible scenarios.

1020
00:55:57,520 --> 00:56:02,600
Speaker 1: Let's get real dystopian. Yeah, favorite thing right, right, right,

1021
00:56:03,280 --> 00:56:05,799
Speaker 1: So hold on to your yea stickers or so on.

1022
00:56:07,120 --> 00:56:10,719
Speaker 1: So let's say we live in cashless economy. It's it's

1023
00:56:10,760 --> 00:56:14,920
Speaker 1: anomally pain with cash in this world is as unusual

1024
00:56:14,960 --> 00:56:16,719
Speaker 1: as seeing someone in the grocery store pay with a

1025
00:56:16,719 --> 00:56:19,239
Speaker 1: physical check, right, and you're like, oh, this line's gonna

1026
00:56:19,280 --> 00:56:22,080
Speaker 1: take forever. Now, look, I got stuff to do. They're

1027
00:56:22,120 --> 00:56:23,680
Speaker 1: counting out nickels, what the hell?

1028
00:56:24,239 --> 00:56:27,360
Speaker 3: You know? And then we have an escape from La

1029
00:56:27,600 --> 00:56:32,920
Speaker 3: scale event that wipes out all electricity, all computer networks, everything,

1030
00:56:32,920 --> 00:56:36,680
Speaker 3: it's all gone. What do we do, right? We start

1031
00:56:36,719 --> 00:56:39,960
Speaker 3: from scratch. We go back to conk shells and shiny

1032
00:56:40,080 --> 00:56:43,520
Speaker 3: rocks the barter system, right, yeah, I mean I don't

1033
00:56:43,520 --> 00:56:45,160
Speaker 3: know if that's where you're going, but that's certainly one

1034
00:56:45,800 --> 00:56:49,399
Speaker 3: that's like the most dystopian version of this situation, I think.

1035
00:56:49,680 --> 00:56:50,440
Speaker 1: And it could happen.

1036
00:56:50,760 --> 00:56:54,480
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, well it happened in Europe for about twelve

1037
00:56:54,480 --> 00:56:59,600
Speaker 2: hours okay, back in June twenty eighteen when Visa went down.

1038
00:56:59,640 --> 00:57:03,640
Speaker 2: There's this was went down. So that was pretty crazy, right,

1039
00:57:03,880 --> 00:57:05,399
Speaker 2: It's kind of like what happened with me that one

1040
00:57:05,440 --> 00:57:08,279
Speaker 2: time at the grocery store where just you can't make

1041
00:57:08,320 --> 00:57:11,600
Speaker 2: any transactions anymore. Oh god, what do I do?

1042
00:57:12,040 --> 00:57:13,040
Speaker 3: Immediately start looting?

1043
00:57:13,120 --> 00:57:13,560
Speaker 1: Is what you do?

1044
00:57:13,760 --> 00:57:13,920
Speaker 2: Well?

1045
00:57:14,200 --> 00:57:16,720
Speaker 3: No, that's that's the that's the only reasonable thing that

1046
00:57:16,760 --> 00:57:17,000
Speaker 3: you could.

1047
00:57:17,040 --> 00:57:20,040
Speaker 1: I would I would say first things first, ulu late,

1048
00:57:20,480 --> 00:57:23,160
Speaker 1: loudly yeah, and then take a take a knife and

1049
00:57:23,760 --> 00:57:26,640
Speaker 1: cut cut, cut your fore arm, not deep, just just

1050
00:57:26,800 --> 00:57:29,320
Speaker 1: deep enough to bleed. So they'll be like, well, this

1051
00:57:29,320 --> 00:57:31,320
Speaker 1: guy's not playing around. Look what he did to himself.

1052
00:57:31,400 --> 00:57:34,200
Speaker 3: Drip it right on the glass scanner thing on the

1053
00:57:34,240 --> 00:57:37,600
Speaker 3: self checkout, smear it in the shape of a pentagram. Yes,

1054
00:57:37,720 --> 00:57:40,440
Speaker 3: and that'll be your payment, and then loudly insist you

1055
00:57:40,440 --> 00:57:41,560
Speaker 3: were paying the blood.

1056
00:57:41,240 --> 00:57:42,800
Speaker 2: Price and then write a check.

1057
00:57:46,680 --> 00:57:50,360
Speaker 1: So yeah, so it is. It is a thing that's

1058
00:57:50,360 --> 00:57:53,440
Speaker 1: happened before. In the case in Europe in twenty eighteen,

1059
00:57:54,240 --> 00:57:57,080
Speaker 1: people had cash, they had euro They could fall back

1060
00:57:57,120 --> 00:57:58,960
Speaker 1: on that and say, well, that's a real pisso that

1061
00:57:59,000 --> 00:58:02,840
Speaker 1: my car doesn't work. I luckily, I you know, I've

1062
00:58:02,840 --> 00:58:05,320
Speaker 1: got ten yuro or something. But that didn't work for

1063
00:58:05,360 --> 00:58:09,080
Speaker 1: everybody because when the system was down, the same system

1064
00:58:09,120 --> 00:58:11,640
Speaker 1: that they would use to withdraw physical cash was also

1065
00:58:11,680 --> 00:58:12,320
Speaker 1: not functioning.

1066
00:58:12,400 --> 00:58:15,040
Speaker 3: Right, I'm sorry, I feel like quick backtrack. I feel

1067
00:58:15,040 --> 00:58:18,040
Speaker 3: like get buried the lead there a little bit ben ululate, yes,

1068
00:58:18,320 --> 00:58:21,560
Speaker 3: hulu late is that like, no, no, no, no, no, exactly

1069
00:58:21,640 --> 00:58:22,680
Speaker 3: what it is.

1070
00:58:22,680 --> 00:58:26,360
Speaker 1: To get the full image, it's it's ululation. Cut yourself

1071
00:58:26,400 --> 00:58:29,560
Speaker 1: a little, just enough to bleed and everybody drip. Yeah,

1072
00:58:29,680 --> 00:58:33,000
Speaker 1: hold your arm horizontal parallel to the floor, and then

1073
00:58:33,600 --> 00:58:36,240
Speaker 1: cut north the south. Don't ever cut east to west.

1074
00:58:36,760 --> 00:58:43,440
Speaker 2: So God, it's thank you just for me like cutting,

1075
00:58:44,520 --> 00:58:47,200
Speaker 2: cutting the body, the human body, even just talking about

1076
00:58:47,200 --> 00:58:47,600
Speaker 2: it in that way.

1077
00:58:47,720 --> 00:58:49,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's not my favorite thing. No, No, that's why

1078
00:58:49,960 --> 00:58:52,560
Speaker 3: I'm saying. Guys. Imagine if you're in line at a

1079
00:58:52,600 --> 00:58:54,560
Speaker 3: grocery store and you see that happen.

1080
00:58:54,640 --> 00:58:57,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're right, it freaked out, right, But this is

1081
00:58:57,080 --> 00:58:58,880
Speaker 1: the stope, This is the fall of society.

1082
00:58:58,920 --> 00:59:01,040
Speaker 3: This is not Visa going down for twelve hours.

1083
00:59:01,120 --> 00:59:04,640
Speaker 2: So okay, let's say that there was a digital only system, right, yeah,

1084
00:59:04,680 --> 00:59:08,720
Speaker 2: and the power goes out for an extended period of time,

1085
00:59:08,800 --> 00:59:11,080
Speaker 2: like a week, and there is no more cash. There

1086
00:59:11,120 --> 00:59:13,120
Speaker 2: is no way for people to trade cash. No one

1087
00:59:13,160 --> 00:59:16,640
Speaker 2: has access to cash. We've decided we don't use cash anymore,

1088
00:59:17,000 --> 00:59:21,920
Speaker 2: and we've got zero power. What happens right now? Right now,

1089
00:59:22,280 --> 00:59:25,200
Speaker 2: you would have your phones perhaps, right or something some

1090
00:59:25,320 --> 00:59:29,120
Speaker 2: electronic device that was charged enough during the initial stages.

1091
00:59:29,240 --> 00:59:31,480
Speaker 3: Potentially, if you think ahead, you got a couple of

1092
00:59:31,520 --> 00:59:33,600
Speaker 3: those power bricks laying around that are charged.

1093
00:59:33,680 --> 00:59:37,520
Speaker 2: Maybe, But think about that on a citywide scale. On

1094
00:59:38,400 --> 00:59:40,560
Speaker 2: you know, if a whole city's power was out.

1095
00:59:40,640 --> 00:59:45,360
Speaker 3: Oh so what becomes currency then power stored energy? I

1096
00:59:45,400 --> 00:59:47,600
Speaker 3: don't know, I'm just asking. I guess.

1097
00:59:47,680 --> 00:59:50,800
Speaker 2: Just what I'm saying is it becomes a serious issue

1098
00:59:50,800 --> 00:59:54,800
Speaker 2: with a cashless society not to have something to fall

1099
00:59:54,840 --> 00:59:57,480
Speaker 2: back on in the case of an emergency.

1100
00:59:57,000 --> 00:59:59,080
Speaker 1: Right, will we go to a barter system? And it

1101
00:59:59,080 --> 01:00:00,920
Speaker 1: would have to be that how long would it. It

1102
01:00:00,960 --> 01:00:03,000
Speaker 1: would depend on how long it lasts, right, because the

1103
01:00:03,040 --> 01:00:06,600
Speaker 1: initial move would probably be to institute some sort of

1104
01:00:06,680 --> 01:00:10,120
Speaker 1: dealing on credit system. But if the records are gone

1105
01:00:10,280 --> 01:00:13,400
Speaker 1: then and you know, it gets ugly real quick. Well,

1106
01:00:13,480 --> 01:00:16,080
Speaker 1: let's say let's say that doesn't happen. Okay, let's say

1107
01:00:16,080 --> 01:00:19,840
Speaker 1: somehow the house of digital cards remains steadfast despite the

1108
01:00:19,840 --> 01:00:24,640
Speaker 1: occasional drafts of wind. Then we move into another problem.

1109
01:00:24,840 --> 01:00:28,240
Speaker 1: If this stuff works perfectly and nothing goes wrong on

1110
01:00:28,320 --> 01:00:32,720
Speaker 1: that front, we run into predictive profiles. So earlier we

1111
01:00:32,720 --> 01:00:34,920
Speaker 1: said they're collecting all this information is you move in

1112
01:00:35,000 --> 01:00:38,880
Speaker 1: and out of the sandbox. Now this find this is

1113
01:00:39,000 --> 01:00:41,160
Speaker 1: just one piece of you, right, where as Whitman said,

1114
01:00:41,160 --> 01:00:45,200
Speaker 1: we're vast, we contain multitudes. The financial footprint is just

1115
01:00:45,440 --> 01:00:50,520
Speaker 1: a single piece of you. But like your thumb, it's

1116
01:00:50,600 --> 01:00:53,760
Speaker 1: linked to the rest of your body overall. So assume

1117
01:00:53,800 --> 01:00:57,760
Speaker 1: this financial information gets linked with medical backgrounds, right and

1118
01:00:57,920 --> 01:01:02,760
Speaker 1: DNA testing your propensity or certain maybe disorders or certain

1119
01:01:03,520 --> 01:01:08,680
Speaker 1: manifestations of physical things. It gets tied to your employment history, right,

1120
01:01:09,080 --> 01:01:12,080
Speaker 1: It gets tied to your social affiliations because you're on

1121
01:01:12,160 --> 01:01:15,040
Speaker 1: social media. It gets tied maybe to you get flagged

1122
01:01:15,040 --> 01:01:19,720
Speaker 1: for controversial purchases like firearms, for instance, or maybe in

1123
01:01:19,760 --> 01:01:25,400
Speaker 1: another country where planned parenthood is illegal, you get tagged

1124
01:01:25,400 --> 01:01:28,480
Speaker 1: for pain for something that would be a contraceptive or

1125
01:01:29,400 --> 01:01:31,120
Speaker 1: you know, terminating a pregnancy.

1126
01:01:31,280 --> 01:01:33,640
Speaker 2: And it also gets linked up with your Google travel

1127
01:01:33,720 --> 01:01:36,520
Speaker 2: information where you've actually been in real time for the

1128
01:01:36,560 --> 01:01:38,400
Speaker 2: past x years that you've had.

1129
01:01:38,240 --> 01:01:41,439
Speaker 1: That device, m your GPS, and it does go back. Yeah,

1130
01:01:41,480 --> 01:01:43,800
Speaker 1: the permanent record is real. And then let's say it

1131
01:01:43,800 --> 01:01:46,960
Speaker 1: gets linked to a criminal background if someone has something

1132
01:01:47,040 --> 01:01:50,560
Speaker 1: like that. How far away are we from a world

1133
01:01:50,680 --> 01:01:54,840
Speaker 1: in which you can legally be detained before you commit

1134
01:01:54,960 --> 01:01:58,360
Speaker 1: any sort of crime just because there's a profile set

1135
01:01:58,400 --> 01:02:02,360
Speaker 1: against you, and that this profile has reached something in

1136
01:02:02,400 --> 01:02:06,440
Speaker 1: its algorithm where it says, for instance, you know, this

1137
01:02:06,560 --> 01:02:11,840
Speaker 1: person is now more than fifty percent likely to let's

1138
01:02:11,840 --> 01:02:14,800
Speaker 1: say default on a carlo.

1139
01:02:15,280 --> 01:02:18,720
Speaker 3: I mean they essentially already do that when making the

1140
01:02:18,760 --> 01:02:20,720
Speaker 3: calculus as to whether to give you the loan in

1141
01:02:20,720 --> 01:02:21,240
Speaker 3: the first place.

1142
01:02:21,280 --> 01:02:24,680
Speaker 1: That's true, Let's link it to something scarer. What if.

1143
01:02:26,120 --> 01:02:29,080
Speaker 3: All I'm agreeing with you, I'm missing that same calculus

1144
01:02:29,160 --> 01:02:32,160
Speaker 3: could be applied to scarier things, right, right, right.

1145
01:02:32,040 --> 01:02:36,960
Speaker 1: So, like let's say let's say instead, your financial information

1146
01:02:37,280 --> 01:02:42,400
Speaker 1: is linked with your medical background and you are buying

1147
01:02:42,880 --> 01:02:47,080
Speaker 1: We're just making this up. Your your purchases are indicative

1148
01:02:47,560 --> 01:02:52,080
Speaker 1: of the development, the nascent development of a medical condition

1149
01:02:52,520 --> 01:02:55,680
Speaker 1: that your background says runs in your family. And then

1150
01:02:55,760 --> 01:02:59,320
Speaker 1: your insurance gets pre pulled, right because they say, you know,

1151
01:02:59,400 --> 01:03:02,160
Speaker 1: the stuff this person is buying is indicative of a

1152
01:03:02,280 --> 01:03:04,800
Speaker 1: very expensive thing that we don't want to pay for.

1153
01:03:04,920 --> 01:03:09,560
Speaker 3: Right, And the legality of that in our society in America,

1154
01:03:10,200 --> 01:03:13,920
Speaker 3: I imagine this is super gray, right, because can't I mean,

1155
01:03:13,960 --> 01:03:17,240
Speaker 3: you know, can't your insurance provider deny you for any

1156
01:03:17,280 --> 01:03:20,880
Speaker 3: pre existing conditions? I mean, it's all self reporting, I guess,

1157
01:03:20,920 --> 01:03:23,560
Speaker 3: but they can find out that you were lying, and

1158
01:03:23,600 --> 01:03:27,520
Speaker 3: they could theoretically find out you were lying based on

1159
01:03:27,600 --> 01:03:29,440
Speaker 3: set algorithm and say, oh, we were just doing our

1160
01:03:29,520 --> 01:03:32,040
Speaker 3: due diligence. We had access to this information. What did

1161
01:03:32,080 --> 01:03:34,360
Speaker 3: you expect us to do. We're looking out for our interests.

1162
01:03:34,560 --> 01:03:37,600
Speaker 1: Yep. And let's ignore the fact that life is a

1163
01:03:37,640 --> 01:03:42,440
Speaker 1: pre existing condition. So I sure, yeah, that's maybe that's

1164
01:03:42,480 --> 01:03:45,920
Speaker 1: another episode. But you're absolutely right. The technology and the

1165
01:03:46,000 --> 01:03:48,720
Speaker 1: trends are there, even if we're not there yet. As

1166
01:03:48,720 --> 01:03:52,919
Speaker 1: a species or as a society. There's one last one,

1167
01:03:53,920 --> 01:03:56,720
Speaker 1: which is an oldie but a goodie. It's the gritty

1168
01:03:56,760 --> 01:04:00,400
Speaker 1: reboot of using control of a currency as a weapon.

1169
01:04:00,960 --> 01:04:02,280
Speaker 3: And this happens all the time.

1170
01:04:02,320 --> 01:04:07,400
Speaker 1: We've read Confessions of an Economic Hitman, fantastic book. Now

1171
01:04:07,440 --> 01:04:10,400
Speaker 1: it becomes more dystopian in an age of digital currency.

1172
01:04:10,440 --> 01:04:14,000
Speaker 1: Now they we're just trading ideas without any physical representation.

1173
01:04:16,000 --> 01:04:18,960
Speaker 1: One great example of this, which is still ridiculous to me,

1174
01:04:19,040 --> 01:04:22,280
Speaker 1: is remember when the Amazon Kindle came out right and

1175
01:04:22,360 --> 01:04:24,640
Speaker 1: people were like, oh, this is so convenient, I don't

1176
01:04:24,680 --> 01:04:26,880
Speaker 1: have to haul around tombs anymore.

1177
01:04:27,000 --> 01:04:29,880
Speaker 3: And affordable. It was super affordable. That was a big

1178
01:04:29,920 --> 01:04:30,160
Speaker 3: part of it.

1179
01:04:30,200 --> 01:04:32,320
Speaker 1: They were selling the tech at a loss, right the

1180
01:04:32,320 --> 01:04:35,520
Speaker 1: way that Sony sold the PlayStation three and four at

1181
01:04:35,560 --> 01:04:37,920
Speaker 1: a loss, because they were making money on the back end.

1182
01:04:38,680 --> 01:04:41,000
Speaker 3: I don't know, on the cashless parts, yes, on the

1183
01:04:41,040 --> 01:04:44,720
Speaker 3: app the app store or whatever, the transactions and the games.

1184
01:04:44,920 --> 01:04:46,640
Speaker 1: And I don't know why I did that weird voice,

1185
01:04:46,680 --> 01:04:50,600
Speaker 1: but it's true. So when the Kindle came out, tons

1186
01:04:50,600 --> 01:04:52,400
Speaker 1: and tons of people got this, and they got it

1187
01:04:52,760 --> 01:04:55,320
Speaker 1: as a gift for their relatives, the readers in their life.

1188
01:04:55,320 --> 01:04:58,000
Speaker 1: They got it for themselves, especially people who traveled a lot,

1189
01:04:58,120 --> 01:05:03,360
Speaker 1: so on and so on. But then, as reported by

1190
01:05:03,360 --> 01:05:06,600
Speaker 1: The New York Times, people found that some books, one

1191
01:05:06,600 --> 01:05:10,680
Speaker 1: book in particular, was being remotely wiped from their digital libraries.

1192
01:05:10,720 --> 01:05:12,680
Speaker 1: It didn't matter that they paid for it, it didn't

1193
01:05:12,680 --> 01:05:16,240
Speaker 1: matter that they possessed it as defined by their agreement

1194
01:05:16,320 --> 01:05:21,680
Speaker 1: with Amazon or the publisher. It just disappeared. So imagine,

1195
01:05:21,680 --> 01:05:23,720
Speaker 1: now take it one more step, and it's not a

1196
01:05:23,840 --> 01:05:28,240
Speaker 1: very large nor very steep step. And let's say we

1197
01:05:28,280 --> 01:05:33,120
Speaker 1: are political activists, or we are members of an oppressed community.

1198
01:05:33,520 --> 01:05:39,920
Speaker 1: I mean vegans. Vegans got tracked by the FBI for

1199
01:05:40,040 --> 01:05:45,160
Speaker 1: their diet and they weren't doing anything disruptive. So perhaps

1200
01:05:45,280 --> 01:05:47,760
Speaker 1: this oppressed community we're in, let's say we're like the

1201
01:05:47,800 --> 01:05:52,080
Speaker 1: Weiger population in western China, and we're an increasingly open

1202
01:05:52,200 --> 01:05:56,200
Speaker 1: conflict with the state level government. If we have physical currency,

1203
01:05:56,520 --> 01:06:00,760
Speaker 1: we can make non approved purchases, we can buy maybe

1204
01:06:00,920 --> 01:06:05,280
Speaker 1: radio parts to create our own radio station, things like that.

1205
01:06:06,200 --> 01:06:10,240
Speaker 1: With digital currency, it is technologically feasible not have a

1206
01:06:10,280 --> 01:06:13,160
Speaker 1: case of this happening yet, but it is technologically possible

1207
01:06:13,520 --> 01:06:19,480
Speaker 1: for a single entity to instantaneously erase all of the

1208
01:06:19,520 --> 01:06:23,160
Speaker 1: currency you possess. You have gone from a million to zero.

1209
01:06:25,040 --> 01:06:28,960
Speaker 1: I know that sounds crazy. One last detail there the

1210
01:06:29,000 --> 01:06:31,520
Speaker 1: book that was removed from the Kendle. Do you guys

1211
01:06:31,560 --> 01:06:35,800
Speaker 1: remember which one it was? It was George Orwell's nineteen

1212
01:06:35,840 --> 01:06:36,360
Speaker 1: eighty four.

1213
01:06:37,680 --> 01:06:39,040
Speaker 3: I think that's a nice.

1214
01:06:40,280 --> 01:06:41,240
Speaker 1: Thematic circle.

1215
01:06:41,480 --> 01:06:42,080
Speaker 2: What are you saying.

1216
01:06:42,120 --> 01:06:46,280
Speaker 3: You're saying they removed it because they didn't want people

1217
01:06:46,360 --> 01:06:48,760
Speaker 3: to get wise to their scheme.

1218
01:06:49,040 --> 01:06:51,920
Speaker 2: No, it was obviously a licensing issue.

1219
01:06:52,080 --> 01:06:53,040
Speaker 3: It was a publisher.

1220
01:06:53,120 --> 01:06:56,080
Speaker 2: They only had they use to have it there for

1221
01:06:56,120 --> 01:06:57,760
Speaker 2: a certain amount of time, and they ran out of

1222
01:06:57,800 --> 01:07:01,840
Speaker 2: that period. Are you kidding? No, I don't know what happened.

1223
01:07:01,840 --> 01:07:03,120
Speaker 2: That's the only thing I can imagine.

1224
01:07:03,120 --> 01:07:05,200
Speaker 1: Think it was a publishing thing they had to I

1225
01:07:05,200 --> 01:07:07,000
Speaker 1: don't think there's You do think it's funny.

1226
01:07:07,080 --> 01:07:07,840
Speaker 3: I think it's funny.

1227
01:07:07,880 --> 01:07:09,920
Speaker 1: I think it's gallous humor. I don't think they were

1228
01:07:10,000 --> 01:07:12,880
Speaker 1: scoopy dow enough to be like, oh, these pesky kids

1229
01:07:12,880 --> 01:07:16,200
Speaker 1: are gonna find out about the threat of a surveillance state.

1230
01:07:16,560 --> 01:07:21,200
Speaker 2: Don't Yeah, Jessop, did you notice that almost all the

1231
01:07:21,360 --> 01:07:25,000
Speaker 2: kindle purchases are reading this nineteen eighty four?

1232
01:07:27,160 --> 01:07:31,720
Speaker 3: Dreadful? Dreadful? What? What's to be done a bit worried.

1233
01:07:31,360 --> 01:07:34,320
Speaker 2: They maybe again thinking about their own situation.

1234
01:07:35,000 --> 01:07:39,200
Speaker 1: No, we wouldn't want that, the hoi pollois.

1235
01:07:39,400 --> 01:07:41,880
Speaker 3: Best just nip it in the bottom, old bean, go

1236
01:07:41,920 --> 01:07:45,240
Speaker 3: ahead and wipe it. Wipe it all, daddy.

1237
01:07:45,320 --> 01:07:50,000
Speaker 1: Ho Now back to the meeting and pip. Yes, yeah,

1238
01:07:50,000 --> 01:07:52,800
Speaker 1: that's a that's a reenactment. We were reading quotes. That's

1239
01:07:52,840 --> 01:07:53,600
Speaker 1: a conversation.

1240
01:07:53,760 --> 01:07:56,680
Speaker 3: That was an Illuminati boardroom conversation at Amazon.

1241
01:07:56,840 --> 01:07:59,840
Speaker 1: Weirdly, yeah, at Amazon. It's up to you to figure

1242
01:07:59,840 --> 01:08:03,640
Speaker 1: out what Jeff Bezos was doing. He actually he is

1243
01:08:03,680 --> 01:08:06,400
Speaker 1: in those meetings, but I think it's mainly to bring

1244
01:08:06,480 --> 01:08:07,520
Speaker 1: coffee to those dudes.

1245
01:08:07,560 --> 01:08:11,640
Speaker 3: There's an Illuminati lounge at most big corporations. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

1246
01:08:11,680 --> 01:08:14,480
Speaker 3: we've got one. It's not as nice.

1247
01:08:14,320 --> 01:08:14,960
Speaker 1: As I would like.

1248
01:08:15,400 --> 01:08:18,120
Speaker 3: It's not here in Atlanta, No, No, it's in New York.

1249
01:08:18,200 --> 01:08:20,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, of course, in New York. But it's like, come on,

1250
01:08:20,080 --> 01:08:22,439
Speaker 1: it's New York. You guys can get fresh bagels. You

1251
01:08:22,560 --> 01:08:23,360
Speaker 1: run the world.

1252
01:08:24,680 --> 01:08:25,080
Speaker 3: I don't know.

1253
01:08:25,120 --> 01:08:28,120
Speaker 1: They say it's a cost cutting thing for a different day,

1254
01:08:28,320 --> 01:08:31,240
Speaker 1: but this is where it leaves us. Right, this story

1255
01:08:31,320 --> 01:08:35,280
Speaker 1: is not over, and parts of this story haven't happened yet.

1256
01:08:35,280 --> 01:08:37,719
Speaker 1: But it's quite possible they will. The trend toward digital

1257
01:08:37,760 --> 01:08:42,240
Speaker 1: currency continues, cash still seems set to move along. Right

1258
01:08:42,280 --> 01:08:45,160
Speaker 1: when Kendall's came out, a lot of people were making

1259
01:08:45,200 --> 01:08:46,000
Speaker 1: noise about.

1260
01:08:45,760 --> 01:08:47,360
Speaker 3: The so called death of the book.

1261
01:08:47,800 --> 01:08:52,680
Speaker 1: The book probably won't die because it is cost effective

1262
01:08:52,680 --> 01:08:54,639
Speaker 1: and there are just so many of them out there,

1263
01:08:55,560 --> 01:09:00,160
Speaker 1: and they are also unlike a Kendal or unlike electron

1264
01:09:00,320 --> 01:09:04,040
Speaker 1: methods of reading, they are also very much air gapped,

1265
01:09:04,520 --> 01:09:07,560
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. That's why burning books is

1266
01:09:07,600 --> 01:09:09,960
Speaker 1: still a thing. If you want to destroy the knowledge

1267
01:09:09,960 --> 01:09:13,120
Speaker 1: and books, you have to destroy every physical copy of it,

1268
01:09:13,280 --> 01:09:15,479
Speaker 1: or you have to destroy the knowledge of the language

1269
01:09:15,479 --> 01:09:17,880
Speaker 1: in which the book is written. And between the two,

1270
01:09:19,120 --> 01:09:22,120
Speaker 1: the former is much easier to accomplish, right.

1271
01:09:22,200 --> 01:09:25,559
Speaker 2: Yeah, it is weird that they don't require any kind

1272
01:09:25,600 --> 01:09:29,160
Speaker 2: of battery or Wi Fi connection.

1273
01:09:29,320 --> 01:09:32,640
Speaker 1: Right, And you don't have to subscribe, you don't have

1274
01:09:32,680 --> 01:09:35,160
Speaker 1: to put your credit card info in I.

1275
01:09:35,160 --> 01:09:36,559
Speaker 2: Don't know books, man, that's weird.

1276
01:09:36,560 --> 01:09:41,080
Speaker 1: That's so old school, so we know, and maybe that's

1277
01:09:41,160 --> 01:09:44,040
Speaker 1: just I don't know, maybe that's a little too alarmist.

1278
01:09:44,120 --> 01:09:47,240
Speaker 1: But cash is probably not going to go away for

1279
01:09:47,320 --> 01:09:50,920
Speaker 1: some of the same reasons the books haven't gone away. Also,

1280
01:09:51,600 --> 01:09:54,759
Speaker 1: the move toward digital currency is supported, make no mistake

1281
01:09:54,800 --> 01:09:58,639
Speaker 1: by very very powerful forces both in the private sectors,

1282
01:09:58,680 --> 01:10:01,880
Speaker 1: the financial sectors, but also the public sectors too. If

1283
01:10:01,920 --> 01:10:06,360
Speaker 1: you want an authoritarian government, removing physical currency is a

1284
01:10:06,400 --> 01:10:12,360
Speaker 1: great step forward. There's an inarguable case of tremendous potential

1285
01:10:12,400 --> 01:10:16,760
Speaker 1: profit for those entities that side of the argument, and

1286
01:10:16,840 --> 01:10:21,479
Speaker 1: the customers, most of the people listening today. You yes,

1287
01:10:21,560 --> 01:10:25,000
Speaker 1: you specifically the end user of currency in cash, You

1288
01:10:25,120 --> 01:10:30,120
Speaker 1: genuinely have very little say in this matter. No, of course,

1289
01:10:30,520 --> 01:10:33,480
Speaker 1: the forces at play on the other side of the conversation,

1290
01:10:33,840 --> 01:10:36,400
Speaker 1: they will argue that the move to digital currency is

1291
01:10:36,520 --> 01:10:39,720
Speaker 1: a win win for all parties, and those concerns we

1292
01:10:39,720 --> 01:10:43,600
Speaker 1: outlined are just that they're sensationalists, they're fear mongering. So

1293
01:10:43,800 --> 01:10:48,840
Speaker 1: ask yourself, do you believe their arguments? And if it

1294
01:10:48,920 --> 01:10:52,360
Speaker 1: turns out that even one of those disturbing possibilities outlined

1295
01:10:52,400 --> 01:10:57,360
Speaker 1: here becomes a reality, how would a society return from

1296
01:10:57,400 --> 01:11:01,360
Speaker 1: the precipice? Would there ensure be a way to reverse

1297
01:11:01,400 --> 01:11:05,080
Speaker 1: the trend? If it became clear that eighty percent of

1298
01:11:05,120 --> 01:11:08,360
Speaker 1: people hated this, and you know the way this game works,

1299
01:11:08,800 --> 01:11:12,680
Speaker 1: there's probably a human interest story that shows the dangerous implications.

1300
01:11:12,760 --> 01:11:17,639
Speaker 1: Let's say it goes viral and eighty percent over half

1301
01:11:18,400 --> 01:11:22,600
Speaker 1: find over half of the people who can protest this

1302
01:11:22,640 --> 01:11:26,280
Speaker 1: stuff start protesting it. Will it step back? Is there

1303
01:11:26,280 --> 01:11:29,200
Speaker 1: a way? Or is it like Pandora's jar. One thing

1304
01:11:29,240 --> 01:11:31,800
Speaker 1: we know that's absolutely certain is this, when it comes

1305
01:11:31,840 --> 01:11:35,000
Speaker 1: to a cashless society, there are plenty of things out

1306
01:11:35,040 --> 01:11:37,960
Speaker 1: there the banks and your government do not want you

1307
01:11:38,040 --> 01:11:40,760
Speaker 1: to know, or at least there is stuff they don't

1308
01:11:40,800 --> 01:11:44,160
Speaker 1: want you to think about too long or too deeply

1309
01:11:44,600 --> 01:11:48,080
Speaker 1: until it's too late to turn back. I don't know,

1310
01:11:48,160 --> 01:11:50,280
Speaker 1: maybe it's a rant. I don't know.

1311
01:11:50,320 --> 01:11:52,639
Speaker 3: What do you guys think it could turn back now

1312
01:11:53,240 --> 01:11:55,040
Speaker 3: or learn the stuff they don't want.

1313
01:11:54,880 --> 01:11:56,960
Speaker 2: You to know now. I think you're right on there, Ben.

1314
01:11:57,280 --> 01:12:01,599
Speaker 2: It feels as though it feels as though we have

1315
01:12:01,720 --> 01:12:06,160
Speaker 2: to go mostly cashless. But I think the scariest thing

1316
01:12:06,320 --> 01:12:11,320
Speaker 2: is that last nudge towards fully cashless, just because of

1317
01:12:11,360 --> 01:12:15,439
Speaker 2: those scenarios we built out there. Everything right here towards

1318
01:12:15,479 --> 01:12:18,160
Speaker 2: the end of this episode, it does feel like a

1319
01:12:18,360 --> 01:12:21,840
Speaker 2: dangerous scenario of digitizing completely.

1320
01:12:22,080 --> 01:12:25,759
Speaker 3: That for sure, the big picture dystopian kind of model

1321
01:12:25,840 --> 01:12:28,599
Speaker 3: and the fears there. But you know, we have gotten

1322
01:12:28,640 --> 01:12:31,400
Speaker 3: to a place where even like you know, a very

1323
01:12:31,439 --> 01:12:36,679
Speaker 3: small independent entrepreneur or like someone in a farmer's market say,

1324
01:12:36,840 --> 01:12:39,559
Speaker 3: or a crafts fair can take a card when that

1325
01:12:39,680 --> 01:12:41,640
Speaker 3: used to be prohibitive. Now you got your squares and

1326
01:12:41,720 --> 01:12:43,880
Speaker 3: you just put it on your smartphone. But you're also

1327
01:12:44,040 --> 01:12:47,800
Speaker 3: paying for the privilege of getting paid. And that's a

1328
01:12:47,840 --> 01:12:51,000
Speaker 3: thing too. It sort of takes advantage of people, you know,

1329
01:12:51,240 --> 01:12:54,320
Speaker 3: for participating in this cashless system, whereas if someone gives

1330
01:12:54,320 --> 01:12:57,960
Speaker 3: you cash, it's all yours. Or people are leaning now

1331
01:12:58,000 --> 01:13:01,479
Speaker 3: more towards Venmo because there's no fees associated with that

1332
01:13:01,920 --> 01:13:03,720
Speaker 3: for some reason, which is weird to me because I

1333
01:13:03,720 --> 01:13:06,040
Speaker 3: don't understand how they make money. There is a way

1334
01:13:06,080 --> 01:13:08,000
Speaker 3: where you can have now there's a new feature on

1335
01:13:08,080 --> 01:13:11,120
Speaker 3: Venmo where to do that bank transfer and have Yeah,

1336
01:13:11,240 --> 01:13:14,760
Speaker 3: it's like a little, you know, negligible portion of the

1337
01:13:15,160 --> 01:13:17,479
Speaker 3: total amount. In the same way when you do a

1338
01:13:17,520 --> 01:13:19,880
Speaker 3: balanced transfer on a credit card, they make their money

1339
01:13:19,880 --> 01:13:22,360
Speaker 3: on charging you a little small percentage of the overall

1340
01:13:22,360 --> 01:13:23,519
Speaker 3: amount they get a big.

1341
01:13:23,560 --> 01:13:26,200
Speaker 2: So wait, let's say let's say you're using Venmo, how

1342
01:13:26,280 --> 01:13:29,120
Speaker 2: long does it take for your drug dealer to get paid.

1343
01:13:30,120 --> 01:13:32,240
Speaker 1: I worry about that. You know, drug dealers are some

1344
01:13:32,800 --> 01:13:35,000
Speaker 1: you can be. It's it can be a very lonely life,

1345
01:13:35,680 --> 01:13:35,880
Speaker 1: you know.

1346
01:13:35,960 --> 01:13:36,960
Speaker 2: I'm just putting this out there.

1347
01:13:37,000 --> 01:13:39,200
Speaker 3: You know you get the money instantly, but you you

1348
01:13:39,200 --> 01:13:41,679
Speaker 3: you might maybe if you're a drug dealer or any

1349
01:13:41,720 --> 01:13:46,400
Speaker 3: other small entrepreneur who's getting paid with Venmo, you don't

1350
01:13:46,439 --> 01:13:48,439
Speaker 3: do the bank transfer right away. You do it all

1351
01:13:48,840 --> 01:13:50,880
Speaker 3: all at once. Once you've made you know as a

1352
01:13:50,920 --> 01:13:53,760
Speaker 3: significant number of transactions, and then you do it all

1353
01:13:53,760 --> 01:13:57,360
Speaker 3: at once. You wouldn't get paid twenty bucks for a

1354
01:13:57,360 --> 01:14:01,719
Speaker 3: a marijuana cigarette I and then transfer that twenty bucks

1355
01:14:01,840 --> 01:14:05,639
Speaker 3: right away. You'd wait until you'd sold, you know, several

1356
01:14:05,680 --> 01:14:06,639
Speaker 3: marijuana cigarettes.

1357
01:14:06,640 --> 01:14:09,360
Speaker 2: Just putting this out there. I don't have Venmo. I've

1358
01:14:09,400 --> 01:14:11,920
Speaker 2: never used Venmo. I probably will never use Venmo.

1359
01:14:12,120 --> 01:14:13,320
Speaker 3: I pay my rent with them.

1360
01:14:13,360 --> 01:14:15,280
Speaker 1: I feel like you're really me right.

1361
01:14:15,200 --> 01:14:15,599
Speaker 3: Now, dude.

1362
01:14:15,680 --> 01:14:18,160
Speaker 2: I'm not high roting anybody. I'm just telling you that

1363
01:14:18,320 --> 01:14:22,120
Speaker 2: Venmo is a giant informant. Venmo knows that all you're

1364
01:14:22,120 --> 01:14:25,840
Speaker 2: doing is buying and selling drugs, and every time you

1365
01:14:26,000 --> 01:14:29,639
Speaker 2: use it, you are talking about it to the person

1366
01:14:30,000 --> 01:14:33,439
Speaker 2: that you are selling or buying drugs. To I'm talking

1367
01:14:33,439 --> 01:14:35,840
Speaker 2: to you out there listening every time you do it.

1368
01:14:35,960 --> 01:14:38,680
Speaker 2: I have seen this occur. I looked at it. You

1369
01:14:38,760 --> 01:14:43,840
Speaker 2: are literally putting evidence you are drug dealing, so right,

1370
01:14:44,120 --> 01:14:45,000
Speaker 2: the internet.

1371
01:14:44,840 --> 01:14:47,479
Speaker 3: Evident record of that, there is no He's right.

1372
01:14:47,520 --> 01:14:50,639
Speaker 1: It's evidence of living in the moment, man, it's evidence

1373
01:14:50,640 --> 01:14:51,679
Speaker 1: of having a good time.

1374
01:14:52,120 --> 01:14:52,439
Speaker 3: Yolo.

1375
01:14:52,560 --> 01:14:57,800
Speaker 2: I agree, But like it's just so, it feels so

1376
01:14:57,840 --> 01:15:01,960
Speaker 2: shortsighted to actually pay for Just be careful, guys, sure,

1377
01:15:02,160 --> 01:15:03,719
Speaker 2: just don't buy and sell drugs life.

1378
01:15:03,760 --> 01:15:07,320
Speaker 3: Maybe it's short sighted on the dealer side to get

1379
01:15:07,360 --> 01:15:09,760
Speaker 3: paid that way. I don't know. I guess it works

1380
01:15:09,760 --> 01:15:11,880
Speaker 3: both ways because there's a transaction of both things. There's

1381
01:15:11,880 --> 01:15:13,000
Speaker 3: a record of both ends.

1382
01:15:12,880 --> 01:15:14,680
Speaker 2: Of the trues. If you are now a known associate

1383
01:15:14,840 --> 01:15:16,639
Speaker 2: of that person, I suppose that's true.

1384
01:15:16,720 --> 01:15:18,799
Speaker 3: We're all getting Kevin Bacons into prison.

1385
01:15:18,840 --> 01:15:21,960
Speaker 1: Man. Ever since the post nine to eleven society and

1386
01:15:22,000 --> 01:15:24,479
Speaker 1: the Patriot Act, you know, that's that's the way the

1387
01:15:24,560 --> 01:15:28,720
Speaker 1: NSAY and the Alphabet Soup agencies vacuum up potential terrorists.

1388
01:15:28,880 --> 01:15:30,519
Speaker 1: Doesn't have to be your friend, doesn't have to be

1389
01:15:30,600 --> 01:15:33,200
Speaker 1: your friend's friend. It could be your friend's friend's friend.

1390
01:15:33,439 --> 01:15:35,839
Speaker 1: I think it goes to six degrees separation.

1391
01:15:35,960 --> 01:15:39,759
Speaker 3: Actually, well, thank god they're more worried about terrorism than small,

1392
01:15:39,800 --> 01:15:41,160
Speaker 3: low level drug deals.

1393
01:15:42,439 --> 01:15:44,680
Speaker 1: Right now, you don't know that's the thing, you'd ever

1394
01:15:44,720 --> 01:15:45,679
Speaker 1: it could switch on you.

1395
01:15:45,800 --> 01:15:48,559
Speaker 2: That stuff's gonna be on record until oh, let me

1396
01:15:48,560 --> 01:15:50,040
Speaker 2: see apocalypse times.

1397
01:15:50,360 --> 01:15:53,080
Speaker 1: So maybe just dummy it up, do some transactions and

1398
01:15:53,080 --> 01:15:55,479
Speaker 1: make you look like a great person. Donate some money

1399
01:15:55,640 --> 01:16:01,160
Speaker 1: to a cause that those authoritarians would agree with. And

1400
01:16:01,240 --> 01:16:05,680
Speaker 1: that's our classic episode for this evening. We can't wait

1401
01:16:05,720 --> 01:16:06,360
Speaker 1: to hear your thoughts.

1402
01:16:06,439 --> 01:16:07,760
Speaker 3: That's right, let us know what you think. You can

1403
01:16:07,840 --> 01:16:10,200
Speaker 3: reach us to the handle Conspiracy Stuff where we exist

1404
01:16:10,240 --> 01:16:14,320
Speaker 3: on Facebook X and YouTube on Instagram and TikTok ork

1405
01:16:14,320 --> 01:16:15,320
Speaker 3: Conspiracy Stuff Show.

1406
01:16:15,360 --> 01:16:17,599
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1407
01:16:17,760 --> 01:16:22,880
Speaker 2: three std WYTK. That's our voicemail system. You've got three minutes.

1408
01:16:22,920 --> 01:16:25,120
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1409
01:16:25,120 --> 01:16:27,240
Speaker 2: we can use your name and message on the air.

1410
01:16:27,560 --> 01:16:29,120
Speaker 2: If you got more to say than can fit in

1411
01:16:29,120 --> 01:16:31,920
Speaker 2: that voicemail, why not instead send us a good old

1412
01:16:31,960 --> 01:16:32,719
Speaker 2: fashioned email.

1413
01:16:32,960 --> 01:16:35,880
Speaker 1: We are the entities to read every single piece of

1414
01:16:35,880 --> 01:16:40,360
Speaker 1: correspondence we receive. Be aware, yet not afraid. Sometimes the

1415
01:16:40,400 --> 01:17:03,160
Speaker 1: void writes back conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com.

1416
01:17:03,600 --> 01:17:05,639
Speaker 2: Stuff they Don't Want You to Know is a production

1417
01:17:05,760 --> 01:17:10,280
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1418
01:17:10,360 --> 01:17:13,240
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