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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to my favorite murder.

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Speaker 2: That's sure, it's a heart start that's getting kill gera.

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Speaker 2: This is podcasting one oh one. It is real basic.

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Speaker 1: This is community college podcasting, brought to you by this

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Speaker 1: donors in the back of the room. That's right, we'll

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Speaker 1: see at the Smoking Tree, we were like extra credit at.

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Speaker 2: My favorite place, the Smoking Tree. We were like, we'll

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Speaker 2: take this class. We're going to audit this class, right, sure,

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Speaker 2: they might try to give us a grade, right, I.

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Speaker 1: Heard the tea shirt is like really chill, Like the

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Speaker 1: final is bowling. You go bowling.

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Speaker 2: The final is you have to tell the same story

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Speaker 2: twenty five times.

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Speaker 1: For ten years. What a gift? What's going on?

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Speaker 2: Pick the wrong color foundation again, you're.

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Speaker 1: Going to say shirt because you're sure, like that'll looks

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Speaker 1: blackt it?

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Speaker 2: I bet I look like kind of like a floating

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Speaker 2: head over this table.

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Speaker 1: You do look like a mime? Yeah, there she goes.

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Speaker 2: Don't make me put my biggy little hands up in

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Speaker 2: the air.

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Speaker 1: Folks, you can see those hands on Netflix listeners get

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Speaker 1: up to date. Yeah, you can also watch us and

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Speaker 1: be watchers. Put it on the background. So Netflix thinks

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Speaker 1: we're killing it. I don't even have to look at us.

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Speaker 1: That's right.

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Speaker 2: Put it on the background.

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Speaker 1: Mute it, mute it for sure. You know we should do.

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Speaker 1: Let's start pushing for the way I give cookie reggae.

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Speaker 1: Let's start having people put this on for their pets

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Speaker 1: when they leave them alone at the house. That's right,

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Speaker 1: let's game the system. We fucking love animals so much.

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Speaker 1: If you put this on while you're gone, it'll make

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Speaker 1: your animals feel better.

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Speaker 2: Good for your animals, it's good for numbers your children,

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Speaker 2: want to leave your children at home?

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Speaker 1: Okay, we're very soothing.

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Speaker 2: We only say the F word every once.

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Speaker 1: In a while. Basically babysitters at least at the top

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Speaker 1: of the show. What are you up to? Nothing? But

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Speaker 1: when this comes out, I'll have watched and known what

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Speaker 1: happens in the last episode of Euphoria. So I'm really

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Speaker 1: jealous of my future.

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Speaker 2: Oh okay, because you're just hanging on by thread and.

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Speaker 1: I just want to I just want to see what happens.

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Speaker 1: I'm hooked.

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Speaker 2: I think I stopped watching you for it, and I'm sorry,

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Speaker 2: because you know I love Martha Kelly the most. Of course,

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Speaker 2: I stopped watching after it. There was like some party

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Speaker 2: that they all went to and things happened at it,

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Speaker 2: and then the anxiety that I felt during that entire scene.

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Speaker 2: I was just like, Oh, I don't have to live

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Speaker 2: through this.

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Speaker 1: You're not in high school anymore. It's very stressful, it's

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Speaker 1: very flawed and imperfect, but there's something about it and

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Speaker 1: I'm totally not there, like demographic as an old lady.

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Speaker 2: But but it's Zandaya, right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So it's like she's just incredible. I mean everyone,

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Speaker 1: they're incredible. Yeah, shout out to Murderino fucking mod aptoo.

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Speaker 1: Oh that's right, she's right up on that thing. I know,

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Speaker 1: she's so good at it.

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Speaker 2: Hi, congratulations, you're doing great.

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Speaker 1: Iris. We love you too. Iris.

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Speaker 2: See hey we met you once. That's so funny. I

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Speaker 2: had actually a true crime update for you.

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Speaker 1: Oh it's okay, that's what this is. It is what

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Speaker 1: we're supposed to be doing.

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Speaker 2: Sure, but we were talking about Murdoch murders and that

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Speaker 2: update and basically saying to each other, we wish we

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Speaker 2: knew what things meant. And what's exciting about that is

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Speaker 2: because we have this podcast network. We have podcasts on

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Speaker 2: here with people who do know what things mean. Okay,

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Speaker 2: most recently Brief Recess, hosted by Michael Foot and Melissa Malabranch,

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Speaker 2: and they went over all of this on their show,

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Speaker 2: so I was like, oh, I'll just go get the

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Speaker 2: information from them and tell you. So the source of

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Speaker 2: this is Michael Foot, Melissa Malabranch, and the Brief Recess podcast,

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Speaker 2: which if you haven't listened to, its sood. Michael is

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Speaker 2: currently an immigration attorney fighting for people being kidnapped by

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Speaker 2: ice in New York City. You can follow him on TikTok.

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Speaker 2: He talks about all the different things he and he's

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Speaker 2: still li likes through all and like so entertaining. So farers,

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Speaker 2: you're like, oh, lawyers whatever, but no, he's like, he

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Speaker 2: has a joyous he's an amazing man. And then he

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Speaker 2: also started explaining things about this case where when I

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Speaker 2: heard him talk about it, it's that thing of like, oh,

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Speaker 2: it's so much better when somebody who knows what they're

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Speaker 2: talking about is breaking the news because they do things

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Speaker 2: like you know. He immediately said, this does not mean

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Speaker 2: that Alec Murdoch walks free.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so what does it mean?

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Speaker 2: So the South Carolina Supreme Court vacated his double murder conviction.

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Speaker 2: He's currently serving a sentence of forty years in prison

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Speaker 2: for embezzling money, many accounts of embezzling money.

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Speaker 1: But their appeals were made by.

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Speaker 2: Murdoch's lawyer, and it found that a county clerk improperly

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Speaker 2: influenced jurors, and so they basically said he didn't get

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Speaker 2: a fair trial for those murders.

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Speaker 1: Okay.

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Speaker 2: The jury interference centered on comments that this county clerk

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Speaker 2: made to the jurors telling them to watch Alec Murdoch's

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Speaker 2: body language in court.

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Speaker 1: So kind of a clerk shouldn't be saying anything to

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Speaker 1: the jurors, right think, So okay.

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Speaker 2: I mean clearly not if what they do can vacate

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Speaker 2: a guilty verdict, that's insane. Of course, when they were

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Speaker 2: discussing it, Michael and Melissa talked about how baffling that

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Speaker 2: behavior was, and that, of course now other legitimate convictions

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Speaker 2: can be overturned because of it, or because of a

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Speaker 2: county clerk that's interfering. Right, So apparently there will be

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Speaker 2: a retrial, the stakes will be higher, prosecution could recommend

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Speaker 2: the death penalty this time around, and Alec Murdoch is

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Speaker 2: suing the county clerk in federal court for this influence

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Speaker 2: personally issuing her. Yeah, I wonder what is her story?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Is this an overactive true crime fan that's like, Hey,

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Speaker 2: this is what needs to be happening here. Or is

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Speaker 2: it a person that's just like, Hey, I've watched this

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Speaker 2: person in this courtroom for my whole career. Here's the

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Speaker 2: thing he does when he's lying.

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Speaker 1: Or he is just a nosy neighbor who's like likes

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Speaker 1: to chit chat.

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Speaker 2: It kind of doesn't matter.

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Speaker 1: It doesn't matter. It doesn't sound curious now.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean it's like, how could you have

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Speaker 2: something this important?

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Speaker 1: I want to see Martha Kelly play her like that's

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Speaker 1: who I'm picturing Martha Kelly character.

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Speaker 2: That's so funny.

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Speaker 1: All right, well should we get into it?

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Speaker 2: The Highlights?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we have a high Highlight now. We don't have

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Speaker 1: a highlight network. This isn't Highlights Magazine. We have a

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Speaker 1: podcast network called Exactly Right Media.

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Speaker 2: We should do a podcast about Highlights Magazine now.

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Speaker 1: It would be so cute.

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Speaker 2: I could read that thing forever.

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Speaker 1: Nineties magazines podcast.

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Speaker 2: Hell yeah, I think it started in this fifties or sixties,

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Speaker 2: didn't it. Okay, goofhis and Gallant is not a nineties creation.

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Speaker 1: There's no way this is exactly right in media, that's correct.

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Speaker 1: We have podcasts on our network, like the one I

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Speaker 1: was just talking about exactly Here are some more highlights.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, this week it's the three hundredth episode of I

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Speaker 2: Said No Gifts.

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Speaker 1: Yes.

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Speaker 2: On this episode, Bridger does everything he can to avoid

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Speaker 2: fighting with Ellie Kemper. You know her from Jimme Schmidt

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Speaker 2: the Office. She does arrive with the gift, so a

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Speaker 2: battle ensues and then they talk about everything from sun

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Speaker 2: burns to the latest Hona Star's suspicious death.

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Speaker 1: I missed her in the office. I was so bummed.

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Speaker 1: I was like there that day, but we didn't cross paths.

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Speaker 2: So were you on the office.

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Speaker 1: In the office, our office?

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Speaker 2: I was like, how did I tell you Elvis?

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Speaker 1: I missed her in our I get that, didn't yep,

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Speaker 1: I hear what you're saying. I was in our exactly

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Speaker 1: right media offices. Not on the TV show The Office,

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Speaker 1: Oh my God. And then over on Dear Movies, I

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Speaker 1: Love You, Milli and Casey kickoff their month long celebration

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Speaker 1: of Video Nasties, a famous collection of VHS tapes that

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Speaker 1: were banned from the UK in the nineteen eighties and

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Speaker 1: they're calling it June nasty. Yeah, as in June and nasty.

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Speaker 1: That's right. First up is the nineteen sixty three horror

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Speaker 1: classic Blood Feast. You gotta love a band movie.

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Speaker 2: Yes, it's so good. Also, Millie is such a what

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Speaker 2: do you call it?

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Speaker 1: Conness?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but she's it's more than that. She's an archivist.

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Speaker 2: She's an expert in movies. So she talks about it

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Speaker 2: from every perspective, which is like the fan perspective, the

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Speaker 2: production perspective, the time, the place, the history.

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Speaker 1: It's so great.

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Speaker 2: Also this week over on Hollywood Land, Jake covers Lucille

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Speaker 2: Ball's Red Scare scandal, from the news report that exposed

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Speaker 2: her former ties to a communist party to the government

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Speaker 2: surveillance that continued on her long after America had moved

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Speaker 2: on from McCarthyism.

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Speaker 1: I love when Desi said the only thing read about

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Speaker 1: her is her hair and even that's fake. Ha. What

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Speaker 1: a time macarthyism feels familiar. And lastly, a reminder from

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Speaker 1: our merch department. Yes that is an el caps. If

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Speaker 1: you don't have anything nice to say, you can always

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Speaker 1: wear it with our fuck politeness merch. That's right, Grab

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Speaker 1: the fuck politeness script unisex T shirt, koozy or whistle

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Speaker 1: now at exactly right store dot com. The end, the end,

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Speaker 1: All right, it's a solo week, and I'm going.

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Speaker 2: You're going to first and only, first and only and alone?

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Speaker 2: Good luck?

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Speaker 1: Are you leaving? Good luck?

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Speaker 2: Layers?

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Speaker 1: Goodbye? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: And then I just put a weird balloon with my

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Speaker 2: head on it here, like what was my face on it?

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Speaker 1: The blacksweater? Okay, one's heavy. So it's Pride month, yes,

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Speaker 1: And today I'm going to cover a story about a

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Speaker 1: horrific hate crime that would become one of the most

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Speaker 1: notorious in American history. And I do think it's surprising

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Speaker 1: to some people that you and I have only discussed

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Speaker 1: this in a minisod. It's only been told in a minisod.

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Speaker 1: And I think part of the reason we haven't covered

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Speaker 1: it is because, despite it being a hugely important story,

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Speaker 1: is because you and I were of age and young

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Speaker 1: women when it happened in the nineties, and it was

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Speaker 1: so horrific that even twenty more than twenty five years later,

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Speaker 1: it almost feels too awful to talk about. And it's

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Speaker 1: such a shameful part of our US history that you

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Speaker 1: and I just haven't been able to go there.

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Speaker 2: There are definitely cases that we have talked about where

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Speaker 2: the actual violence of the case is so extreme and

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Speaker 2: just repetitive and whatever that we're just like, we don't

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Speaker 2: know how to handle this correctly, right, And especially after

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Speaker 2: years of like hearing back when we don't handle things correctly,

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Speaker 2: I think more and more we got more and more

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Speaker 2: careful with and we couldn't not handle something correctly right.

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Speaker 1: And so I've been really nervous about doing this. Thank

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Speaker 1: you to ali Elk and my researcher because this also

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Speaker 1: bet a lock to her as well. So I think

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Speaker 1: we'll handle it.

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Speaker 2: It's important to do it. It's important to talk about

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Speaker 2: it right.

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Speaker 1: So this story is tragic, but it's also an event

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Speaker 1: that completely changed the conversation around gay people in America,

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Speaker 1: particularly young gay people. It led to hate crime legislation

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Speaker 1: being passed, and it led to communities around the country

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Speaker 1: realizing they must become safe places for their LGBTQ young

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Speaker 1: people to live their lives truthfully and without fear. But

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Speaker 1: even though it's been close to thirty years, this is

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Speaker 1: still an issue obviously that LGBTQIA plus people face daily,

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Speaker 1: so it's important for us to cover the story, I think,

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Speaker 1: and this is the story of Matthew Shepherd. Yeah. The

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Speaker 1: main sources for the story is a nineteen and nine

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Speaker 1: article from Vanity Fair by Melanie Thurnstrom, as well as

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Speaker 1: Matthew Shepherd dot org and a BBC article called Matthew

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Speaker 1: Shepherd The Murder That Changed America by Jude Sharon, and

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Speaker 1: the rest of the sources can be found in the

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Speaker 1: show notes. So it's the evening of October seventh, nineteen

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Speaker 1: ninety eight, and we are just outside of Laramie, Wyoming.

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Speaker 1: We're just east of the city. Laramie is home to

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Speaker 1: the University of Wyoming, and like most college towns, it's

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Speaker 1: considered to be pretty liberal for what is not a

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Speaker 1: liberal state. A Mountain biker and University of Washington freshman

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Speaker 1: named Aaron has just fallen off his bike just riding

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Speaker 1: on some paths when he notices leaning up against a

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Speaker 1: wooden fence. What he thinks at first is a scarecrow.

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Speaker 1: Aaron then realizes, to his horror that he is looking

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Speaker 1: at a person who has been beaten nearly to death.

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Speaker 1: He runs to a nearby residence to use the phone

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Speaker 1: to call police. The victim is male, about five foot

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Speaker 1: to and really slight, so at first, responding officers think

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Speaker 1: that it's a young teenager. He is unrecognizable and his

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Speaker 1: face is covered in blood except for the places where

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Speaker 1: the tears have made tracks down his face, which is

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Speaker 1: just a heart benching detail, But he is alive. The

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Speaker 1: boys rushed to the nearest hospital, where coincidentally, two other

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Speaker 1: young men from town are being treated from injuries that

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Speaker 1: they sustained in a street fight the night before, and

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Speaker 1: so police are aware of that, and these men had

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Speaker 1: been driving a truck in which police had found blood,

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Speaker 1: a gun, and a wallet with an ID belonging to

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Speaker 1: a twenty one year old named Matthew Shepherd. And so

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Speaker 1: it doesn't take long for the police to realize that

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Speaker 1: this is the identity of the young man who is

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Speaker 1: now in the same hospital, very tenuously holding on to life,

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Speaker 1: and that the boys who were taken in the night

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Speaker 1: before are part of this. So let me tell you

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Speaker 1: a little bit about Matthew Shepherd. He's born on December first,

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Speaker 1: nineteen seventy six, to Judy and Dennis Shepherd in Casper, Wyoming.

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Speaker 1: He is a friendly child, though he is bullied by

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Speaker 1: his peers, sometimes for being small and relatively unathletic, and

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Speaker 1: also because as he gets older, he doesn't go to

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Speaker 1: great links to hide the fact that he's gay. From

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Speaker 1: an early age, he's fascinated by politics. His mom's hairdresser

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Speaker 1: recounts a story about Matthew when he's seven or eight

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Speaker 1: years old, ahead of a local election, saying, quote, he

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Speaker 1: came into our shop and told us all how to vote,

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Speaker 1: and he knew he knew the issues. We all thought

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Speaker 1: he was going to grow up to be the president.

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Speaker 1: When Matthew is a teenager, his father, who works for

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Speaker 1: the oil industry, takes a job in Saudi Arabia. Matthew

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Speaker 1: goes to the American School in Switzerland. In high school,

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Speaker 1: he's elected by his peers to be a peer counselor,

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Speaker 1: and by all accounts, he's easy to talk to and

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Speaker 1: makes friends easily. When Matthew is a senior on a

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Speaker 1: school trip in Morocco, he is violently sexually assaulted by

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Speaker 1: a group of locals. His mother, Judy, says that she

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Speaker 1: felt that his trauma made him more prone to further trauma,

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Speaker 1: and people could sense his own ability. After Matthew graduates

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Speaker 1: high school, he officially comes out to his family, who

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Speaker 1: are supportive, especially his mother, who's very close to When

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Speaker 1: he's twenty one, he enrolls at the University of Wyoming

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Speaker 1: and Laramie, majoring in political science with a minor in languages.

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Speaker 1: And it seems like he starts to thrive in the

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Speaker 1: college setting. And he's actually chosen as a student representative

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Speaker 1: for the Wyoming Environmental Council, and it's his dream to

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Speaker 1: work as a diplomat for the Department of State. And

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Speaker 1: so let's look at a picture of him. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you and I know it's so well, it's just steered

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Speaker 1: into our memories. But here's the picture of him, his

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Speaker 1: braces and just like such a sweet looking kiss. So

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Speaker 1: back to the night of October sixth, the night of

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Speaker 1: the attack, Matthew had gone to a meeting of the

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Speaker 1: college's LGBT Association where he helps plan events for the

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Speaker 1: upcoming Gay Awareness Week, which is set to begin the

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Speaker 1: following Monday. And after the meeting, Matthew says he plans

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Speaker 1: to go to a bar called The Fireside, but no

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Speaker 1: one else seems up for it, so he goes a

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Speaker 1: and arrives around ten pm, has a few drinks at

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Speaker 1: the bar, and it seems like he's also hanging out

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Speaker 1: with two regulars named Aaron McKinney and Russell Henderson. Both

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Speaker 1: are around Matthew's age, but they are not students at

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Speaker 1: the university. They're actually locals known to be currently having

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Speaker 1: issues with meth addiction and are possibly dealing meth. And

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Speaker 1: they're known to frequently get in fights and get in trouble,

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Speaker 1: so they're more local troublemakers. The detail that gets debated

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Speaker 1: is whether or not Matthew had also been a user

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Speaker 1: of math or possibly involved in the math trade, and

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Speaker 1: whether he knew Aaron and Russell prior to this evening,

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Speaker 1: And it's this whole controversial conversation around it, But I

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Speaker 1: don't think it's important to the story. And also we

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Speaker 1: don't need him to be a perfect victim or have

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Speaker 1: this in any way means he deserved something like this

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Speaker 1: to happen to him, So I don't even want to.

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Speaker 2: Talk about the Well also there I do think there is,

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Speaker 2: and this is you see it online all the time,

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Speaker 2: but it is this kind of need that some people

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Speaker 2: have to be like I don't have to empathize with

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Speaker 2: this because and then they find their reason. It's a

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Speaker 2: very sad kind of human denial of like I can't

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Speaker 2: handle this or I can't be made to think more

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Speaker 2: than one way about this.

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Speaker 1: Topic, right, right, one hundred percent. But the story that

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Speaker 1: most people, including the police and Matthew's family, believes that

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Speaker 1: Matthew did not have any significant prior interactions with Aaron

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Speaker 1: and Russell, and whether or not he had a drug problem,

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Speaker 1: which is unclear, is pretty immaterial to the rest of

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Speaker 1: the story. So witnesses at the bar see the three

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Speaker 1: men leave together around midnight, and at one thirty in

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Speaker 1: the morning, according to Aaron's girlfriend, Aaron returns home covered

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Speaker 1: in blood, saying he has done something horrible, that he

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Speaker 1: may have killed someone. Aaron says that he and Russell

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Speaker 1: had made plans to pose as being gay so that

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Speaker 1: they could rob Matthew and that was the whole point,

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Speaker 1: and they drove him to a remote area. But even

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Speaker 1: though Matthew gave them his wallet, which by the way,

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Speaker 1: only had twenty dollars in it, it's just so fucking senseless.

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Speaker 1: They tied him to the fence, beat him brutally, and

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Speaker 1: repeatedly with the handgun and took his shoes so he

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Speaker 1: would not be able to walk and get help. And

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Speaker 1: so then Aaron and Russell head towards Matthew's home with

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Speaker 1: it seems like plans to rob it because they had

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Speaker 1: Matthew's key and had taken it from him, but they

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Speaker 1: get sidetracked in that street fight on the way, and oh,

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Speaker 1: the street fight was real. It's real. On the way,

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Speaker 1: they get in a street fight, which seems like they

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Speaker 1: were the.

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Speaker 2: I think it's probably pretty safe to say that Matthew

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Speaker 2: Shepard was not like friends or associates with these people exactly.

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Speaker 1: You're right. It's just people wanting to not have to

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Speaker 1: care as much about other people. So Russell is caught

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Speaker 1: and taken to the hospital. Aaron escapes and runs off

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Speaker 1: and goes home tells his girlfriend what happened, but then

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Speaker 1: he goes to the hospital where the police catch up

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Speaker 1: with him and they find that evidence in his truck.

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Speaker 1: So in his official confession to the police, Aaron says

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Speaker 1: the motive was robbery and that they had tried to

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Speaker 1: kill Matthew because they believed he could identify them, but

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Speaker 1: his girlfriend says that the fact that Matthew was gay.

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Speaker 1: It was a key reason they wanted to hurt him.

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Speaker 1: And this is like something that's just debated since then

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Speaker 1: and to this day. And he doesn't admit it on

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Speaker 1: the official record at the time, but later in two

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Speaker 1: thousand and nine, Aaron tells a journalist quote the night

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Speaker 1: I did it, I did have hatred for homosexuals end quote.

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Speaker 1: So it's from the actual perpetrator who says that. So

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Speaker 1: what's the debate?

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Speaker 2: Sorry are people saying? The debate is it just was

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Speaker 2: that they were trying to rob him and it was not.

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Speaker 1: Associated with that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that then they would have just robbed him, right, right.

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Speaker 2: It's so frustrating when you hear all of that, and

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Speaker 2: you know where it's just like, sure, if you want

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Speaker 2: to entertain every possibility in the world so that there

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Speaker 2: is no actual accountability, then you can introduce ideas like

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Speaker 2: that all day long.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, you're bullshit. If you're the one introducing

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Speaker 1: these reasons why you shouldn't have to feel bad for

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Speaker 1: someone who was murdered, then you need to look at

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Speaker 1: your own self. It's like it's about you. It's fully

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Speaker 1: about you.

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Speaker 2: Look, there's a thing called projection and you need to

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Speaker 2: look it up at the library.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. So in the background of all of this, let's

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Speaker 1: talk about this, there is already a lot of big

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Speaker 1: conversations going on in the country about the visibility of

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Speaker 1: gay people. I think that the nineties is kind of

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Speaker 1: when it started to be accepted in mainstream culture a

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Speaker 1: little bit more. There was like a tipping point when

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Speaker 1: gay people and gay stories are being fully integrated into

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Speaker 1: mainstream culture and into the media. In nineteen ninety four,

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Speaker 1: Wilson Cruz is the first openly gay actor playing an

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Speaker 1: openly gay character in My So called Life, So that's

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Speaker 1: nineteen ninety four. Of course, Ellen Degenerous in nineteen ninety

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Speaker 1: seven comes out both as her character on the huge

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Speaker 1: sitcom Ellen and in real life on the cover of

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Speaker 1: Time magazine. So if you're not old enough to remember it,

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Speaker 1: that's a good indication of what the culture was like.

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Speaker 1: It was such a big deal that someone was coming

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Speaker 1: out both in show in person, that it was in

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Speaker 1: the cover of a magazine and front page news, And

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Speaker 1: there were plenty of people who were outraged and advertisers

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Speaker 1: who pulled out from that episode of Ellen because it

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Speaker 1: was so different.

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Speaker 2: Now I know, and it's beautiful how different it is now.

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Speaker 2: But to think about that time is so bizarre. Whereas

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Speaker 2: like when you started talking about like there was representation

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Speaker 2: a little bit here and there, it's like, right, you

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Speaker 2: get like one funny, over the top pay guy who

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Speaker 2: had to be mocked the whole time. Like the representation

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Speaker 2: was so skewed and weird and bigoted in a weird way.

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Speaker 2: Although Wilson Cruz really that was a watershed moment.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. So I was a teenager at the time, and

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Speaker 1: like we use the we called people gay as a insult.

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Speaker 1: That was like, oh yeah, but I feel like people don't.

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Speaker 1: The F word was used all the time, just casually.

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Speaker 1: And I'm from a really conservative town and the only

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Speaker 1: like out gay people were like the goths, so it

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Speaker 1: was already them being like totally ostracized was the only

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Speaker 1: way you could come out. So yeah, and I had

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Speaker 1: some cousins and friends who were, but it was not

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Speaker 1: mainstream at all.

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Speaker 2: No, it was no. Everybody had to go find their

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Speaker 2: niche to go be in and be out of the mainstream,

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Speaker 2: right because you weren't going to be a quarterback and

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Speaker 2: you weren't going to be the head cheerleader. So go

438
00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:28,040
Speaker 2: find the other people who are outcasts. And I'm talking

439
00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:29,200
Speaker 2: about the theater department.

440
00:21:31,359 --> 00:21:33,760
Speaker 1: So slurs were regularly and casually used in society and

441
00:21:33,760 --> 00:21:36,840
Speaker 1: in the media. The AIDS crisis stigmatized gay people as

442
00:21:36,880 --> 00:21:39,080
Speaker 1: it was thought of as a gay quote gay disease.

443
00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:43,560
Speaker 1: The quote gay panic defense was a real fucking legal

444
00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:46,919
Speaker 1: strategy that was frequently used, and it would allow the

445
00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:52,880
Speaker 1: perpetrators to claim temporary insanity or extreme fright upon discovering

446
00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:57,240
Speaker 1: a person's sexual orientation, which often resulted in lenient sentences

447
00:21:57,280 --> 00:22:01,359
Speaker 1: or acquittals for assaulting or murdering LGBT plus individuals. So

448
00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:05,640
Speaker 1: if you say, yes, I violently murdered someone because they

449
00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:08,679
Speaker 1: put their hand on my leg and I realized they

450
00:22:08,680 --> 00:22:10,520
Speaker 1: were gay and hitting on me and I went crazy,

451
00:22:10,760 --> 00:22:13,159
Speaker 1: that was a legitimate defense that worked.

452
00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:16,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, and now we know that actually that's just admission

453
00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:19,280
Speaker 2: that you probably harbor a lot of feelings that you're

454
00:22:19,440 --> 00:22:22,840
Speaker 2: conflicted and worried about. So that's actually what was going

455
00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:26,800
Speaker 2: on there. I mean, like there has been progress culturally

456
00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:30,080
Speaker 2: in terms of just people's understanding, but I think it's

457
00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:32,640
Speaker 2: because more and more people have the ability, Like there's

458
00:22:32,640 --> 00:22:34,399
Speaker 2: so many more people that are able to have a

459
00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:35,440
Speaker 2: voice these days.

460
00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:38,679
Speaker 1: And represent Yeah. Yeah, so obviously we're not saying everything

461
00:22:38,760 --> 00:22:41,080
Speaker 1: is great right now and that doesn't need so much

462
00:22:41,080 --> 00:22:43,360
Speaker 1: more work. But from where we're coming from in the nineties,

463
00:22:43,359 --> 00:22:46,560
Speaker 1: in this era, like it was just fucking disgusting.

464
00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:51,760
Speaker 2: Also, here are point because women are constantly explaining why

465
00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:53,960
Speaker 2: but we're not covering this and we're not but we

466
00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:56,679
Speaker 2: do mean this in it. It's just like you know

467
00:22:56,720 --> 00:22:57,280
Speaker 2: what we mean.

468
00:22:57,440 --> 00:23:00,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, well not the people who don't want to the

469
00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:02,280
Speaker 1: people that we talk to to go to the library

470
00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:04,199
Speaker 1: and look up this. Most people don't want to know.

471
00:23:04,359 --> 00:23:06,680
Speaker 2: No, no, they're not here for this though those people

472
00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:08,360
Speaker 2: are always they're just online.

473
00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:10,919
Speaker 1: This is your show. There's so many true crime shows.

474
00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:11,840
Speaker 1: It's just int yours.

475
00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:15,280
Speaker 2: Go go find Have you been in the comments recently?

476
00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:16,480
Speaker 2: Is this what's happening for me?

477
00:23:17,000 --> 00:23:20,880
Speaker 1: No, it has stuck with me. Yes. So that's what's

478
00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:23,080
Speaker 1: going on. In the background. With the news of Matthew

479
00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:27,919
Speaker 1: Shepherd's horrific injuries comes out. Matthew was transferred to a

480
00:23:27,960 --> 00:23:32,040
Speaker 1: more resourced hospital in Fort Collins, Colorado. His parents have

481
00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:35,600
Speaker 1: to fly back from Saudi Arabia. I mean, imagine them

482
00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:38,320
Speaker 1: on that flight home, how fucking terrified they were. The

483
00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:41,800
Speaker 1: sheriff O'Malley. He says that Matthew was quote struck in

484
00:23:41,840 --> 00:23:44,840
Speaker 1: the head and face between nineteen and twenty one times

485
00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:47,840
Speaker 1: with the butt of a very large Smith and Wesson revolver.

486
00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:51,320
Speaker 1: The only time I've ever seen those dramatic of injuries

487
00:23:51,359 --> 00:23:55,000
Speaker 1: were in high speed traffic crashes, you know, where there

488
00:23:55,080 --> 00:24:00,119
Speaker 1: was just extremely violent compression fractures to the skull end quote.

489
00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:02,800
Speaker 1: And in fact, his parents only recognized him when they

490
00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:05,040
Speaker 1: come into the hospital room at first because they saw

491
00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:10,399
Speaker 1: his braces, like he just was unrecognizable. Ultimately, Matthew Shepherd

492
00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:13,479
Speaker 1: had been tied to a split rail fence, beaten with

493
00:24:13,560 --> 00:24:15,600
Speaker 1: the butt of a gun, and left to die in

494
00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:18,840
Speaker 1: the cold of the night until he was found almost

495
00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:22,520
Speaker 1: eighteen hours later, and only because that kid fell off

496
00:24:22,520 --> 00:24:25,199
Speaker 1: of his bike while his parents are at Matthew's bedside.

497
00:24:25,240 --> 00:24:27,840
Speaker 1: The story gets bigger and bigger. It's on the cover

498
00:24:27,880 --> 00:24:31,960
Speaker 1: of Time. President Bill Clinton calls them Elton, John Madonna,

499
00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:35,640
Speaker 1: Barbara streisand they are all getting involved, and the hospital

500
00:24:35,680 --> 00:24:37,919
Speaker 1: is so overwhelmed by calls to check on his condition

501
00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:41,679
Speaker 1: that it begins posting updates on its nascent website in

502
00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:45,000
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety eight, which wasn't really a thing back then.

503
00:24:45,920 --> 00:24:48,719
Speaker 1: So the Shepherds and the nation are devastated when Matthew

504
00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:52,040
Speaker 1: succumbs to his injuries on October twelfth, nineteen ninety eight,

505
00:24:52,480 --> 00:24:55,160
Speaker 1: and just hoeveryone knows how hateful it all was. At

506
00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:58,520
Speaker 1: his funeral service in the family's hometown of Casper, Wyoming

507
00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:03,320
Speaker 1: a week later, is picketed by anti gay preacher Reverend

508
00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:08,000
Speaker 1: Fred Phelps of the Westboro Baptist Church, along with his followers,

509
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:12,960
Speaker 1: including children. They held placards with homophobic slurs and shouted

510
00:25:13,000 --> 00:25:15,840
Speaker 1: to the mourners that the dead student was burning in hell.

511
00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:19,760
Speaker 1: And in fact, this is so horrific. Dennis Shepherd, Matthew's

512
00:25:19,800 --> 00:25:22,800
Speaker 1: father was made to wear a bulletproof vest to his

513
00:25:22,880 --> 00:25:25,840
Speaker 1: son's funeral, and the church had been checked by bomb

514
00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:28,840
Speaker 1: sniffing dogs, and there were swat teams at the front

515
00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:32,680
Speaker 1: and back of the building and police snipers on rooftops.

516
00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:36,320
Speaker 2: For the funeral A victim of this horrible attack, The

517
00:25:36,359 --> 00:25:38,880
Speaker 2: story immediately sparks national outrage.

518
00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:41,760
Speaker 1: Writer Andrew Sullivan says, quote, I think a lot of

519
00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:44,680
Speaker 1: gay people when they first heard of that horrifying event,

520
00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:47,240
Speaker 1: felt sort of punched in the stomach. I mean it

521
00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:51,280
Speaker 1: kind of encapsulated all our fears of being victimized. End quote.

522
00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:55,280
Speaker 1: So Aaron and Russell are both charged with first degree murder, kidnapping,

523
00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:59,200
Speaker 1: and robbery, and their girlfriends are charged as accessories since

524
00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:01,720
Speaker 1: both tried to dis bows of the clothes Russell had

525
00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:05,439
Speaker 1: been wearing. Russell pleads guilty and Aaron goes to trial

526
00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:09,240
Speaker 1: and is found guilty and each are given two life sentences.

527
00:26:09,440 --> 00:26:12,080
Speaker 1: And the story there is a lot bigger. I definitely

528
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:13,680
Speaker 1: think people should go look it up. So in the

529
00:26:13,720 --> 00:26:17,520
Speaker 1: wake of Matthew's death, his parents form the Matthew Shepherd Foundation,

530
00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:21,440
Speaker 1: which has online and offline resources for creating safe schools

531
00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:25,399
Speaker 1: and communities. They also lobby for years for federal hate

532
00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:29,280
Speaker 1: crime legislation to be expanded to include crimes based on

533
00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:32,920
Speaker 1: sexuality and gender identity. This is a long story, and

534
00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:36,040
Speaker 1: there's a documentary called The Matthew Shepherd Story and American

535
00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:40,240
Speaker 1: Hate Crime, but essentially, the Matthew Shepherd and James Bird

536
00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:44,160
Speaker 1: Junior Hate Crimes Prevention Act finally passes and is signed

537
00:26:44,240 --> 00:26:48,040
Speaker 1: by President Barack Obama in October of two thousand and nine.

538
00:26:48,240 --> 00:26:52,400
Speaker 1: Eleven years after Matthew's death. And just note James Beard

539
00:26:52,440 --> 00:26:55,320
Speaker 1: is a black man who was murdered by white supremacists

540
00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:59,280
Speaker 1: in Texas in nineteen ninety eight. Matthew's parents hold on

541
00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:03,000
Speaker 1: to his ashes for twenty years because they're so afraid

542
00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:05,959
Speaker 1: that if they inter him in a public place, his

543
00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:09,200
Speaker 1: grave will be vandalized. They don't want to see that happen, obviously.

544
00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:13,360
Speaker 1: And then in twenty eighteen, the Right Reverend Mary An

545
00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:17,080
Speaker 1: Buddy invites the Shepherd family to inter Matthew in the

546
00:27:17,160 --> 00:27:21,800
Speaker 1: National Cathedral. So on October twenty sixth, twenty eighteen, Matthew

547
00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:25,840
Speaker 1: is laid to rest in the National Cathedral's tomb, alongside

548
00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:28,760
Speaker 1: the likes of former President Woodrow Wilson and Helen Keller.

549
00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:30,880
Speaker 2: Holy shit, yeah, I didn't know that.

550
00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:34,200
Speaker 1: And not even Harvey Milk, you know, another prominent gay

551
00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:36,080
Speaker 1: man who was murdered was buried there.

552
00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:40,200
Speaker 2: Well, that was so long before, whereas like.

553
00:27:40,720 --> 00:27:45,879
Speaker 1: Tyler, Yeah, twenty eighteen, it took to allow it. During

554
00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:49,679
Speaker 1: the ceremony, the Episcopal Church's first openly gay bishop, the

555
00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:54,479
Speaker 1: Right Reverend Jean Robinson, says, quote gently, rest in this place.

556
00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:58,480
Speaker 1: You are safe now, Matthew. Welcome home, so a collection

557
00:27:58,560 --> 00:28:01,600
Speaker 1: of personal effects were donated by his family in twenty

558
00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:05,119
Speaker 1: eighteen for display at the Smithsonian Institution's National Museum of

559
00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:08,919
Speaker 1: American History in the US Capital, which I didn't know

560
00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:12,919
Speaker 1: about his school work, Some of his theater scripts and

561
00:28:13,000 --> 00:28:16,040
Speaker 1: items from his everyday life as a reminder that he

562
00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:19,119
Speaker 1: was a normal American boy, were donated by his family,

563
00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:22,360
Speaker 1: as well as condolence cards and correspondents that the Shepherd's

564
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:27,040
Speaker 1: received following his death, which must be so powerful. Judy Shepherd,

565
00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:30,720
Speaker 1: his mother, who frequently speaks out against Trump administration policies

566
00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:33,840
Speaker 1: that have rolled back or undermined the protection she's fought

567
00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:36,359
Speaker 1: for in the wake of her son's death, said about

568
00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:39,640
Speaker 1: the Smithsonian donation quote, for twenty years, we have tried

569
00:28:39,640 --> 00:28:41,960
Speaker 1: to share the meaning of our son's life, as well

570
00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:45,520
Speaker 1: as his dreams for a kinder, more accepting, and loving world.

571
00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:48,440
Speaker 1: It is deeply comforting to know the Smithsonian will preserve

572
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:52,040
Speaker 1: his story and meaning for future generations. We cannot think

573
00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:54,800
Speaker 1: of a better way to honor Matt's life and legacy.

574
00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:58,560
Speaker 1: It ends with this quote. The life and death of

575
00:28:58,600 --> 00:29:01,280
Speaker 1: Matthew Shepherd changed a way we talk about and deal

576
00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:04,920
Speaker 1: with hate in America. Since his death, Matt's legacy has

577
00:29:05,040 --> 00:29:08,360
Speaker 1: challenge and inspired millions of individuals to erase hate in

578
00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:11,520
Speaker 1: all its forms. Although Matt's life was short, his story

579
00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:14,400
Speaker 1: continues to have great impact on young and old alike.

580
00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:17,880
Speaker 1: His legacy lives on in thousands of people who actively

581
00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:22,959
Speaker 1: fight to replace hate with understanding, compassion, and acceptance. And

582
00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:25,760
Speaker 1: that is the story of the life, death, and legacy

583
00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:26,880
Speaker 1: of Matthew Shepherd.

584
00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:32,240
Speaker 2: Wow, the worst possible story, I know, but with real

585
00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:33,080
Speaker 2: life impact.

586
00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:33,760
Speaker 1: Yeah.

587
00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:35,960
Speaker 2: I mean when you first were talking about it and

588
00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:38,360
Speaker 2: then you said something about his mother, I immediately was like,

589
00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:42,920
Speaker 2: Judy Shepherd, his parents have been working for so long

590
00:29:43,240 --> 00:29:46,040
Speaker 2: to make change and to make sure that this isn't

591
00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:49,520
Speaker 2: something that is I don't know, there's something about it that, like,

592
00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:53,800
Speaker 2: as you tell it in retrospect, it feels like there

593
00:29:53,960 --> 00:29:59,640
Speaker 2: was a conscious decision culturally by a majority of people.

594
00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:03,080
Speaker 2: Of course, never everyone, and certainly there's always going to

595
00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:06,680
Speaker 2: be people with serious issues and serious problems of their

596
00:30:06,720 --> 00:30:08,560
Speaker 2: own that are going to stand in the way of this.

597
00:30:08,720 --> 00:30:10,920
Speaker 2: But it was almost like people going, how can we

598
00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:14,080
Speaker 2: be letting things like this happen and be okay with it?

599
00:30:14,080 --> 00:30:17,760
Speaker 1: It was shameful as a country that we allowed this

600
00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:19,880
Speaker 1: to happen. It was nineteen ninety eight. We think we're

601
00:30:19,880 --> 00:30:22,720
Speaker 1: so you know, past all of that, yeah, I mean,

602
00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:26,760
Speaker 1: or like we're yeah, we're evolved, and we're so evolved,

603
00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:29,800
Speaker 1: and then this horrific thing happens and everyone is like,

604
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:32,440
Speaker 1: this cannot be swept under the rug. We have to

605
00:30:32,440 --> 00:30:37,040
Speaker 1: be held accountable, not just the murderers, but us as

606
00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:40,200
Speaker 1: a society who allows us to happen and thinks this

607
00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:40,800
Speaker 1: is kind of.

608
00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:44,520
Speaker 2: Normal, and then things get turned into like, oh, it's pc,

609
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:48,040
Speaker 2: it's woe right, you're being that. It's like, no, no, no,

610
00:30:48,320 --> 00:30:51,840
Speaker 2: these are the moments where the reality punctures through of

611
00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:54,959
Speaker 2: how people are really being treated that are not white

612
00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:59,600
Speaker 2: men with money, yeah, and so any story of things

613
00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:02,640
Speaker 2: happening black people, and suddenly it's like, uh, don't be political,

614
00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:05,360
Speaker 2: don't be woke, don't be this and it's like no, no, no,

615
00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:07,680
Speaker 2: these are things you need to know about the facts

616
00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:09,320
Speaker 2: of people's real lives.

617
00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:10,840
Speaker 1: And then there's so many people who are like no,

618
00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:13,200
Speaker 1: that actually, things like this happen to us all the.

619
00:31:13,200 --> 00:31:15,720
Speaker 2: Time constantly, and you ignore it and don't listen in

620
00:31:15,800 --> 00:31:19,480
Speaker 2: these rationales and then it's like something puncturing through that

621
00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:22,120
Speaker 2: way because it's like it's Wyoming, it's out in the

622
00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:25,240
Speaker 2: middle of nowhere, and it's just like there's so many

623
00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:28,760
Speaker 2: people at risk, Yeah, because they live in the wrong place, right,

624
00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:31,959
Speaker 2: they're surrounded by the wrong people as opposed to that

625
00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:32,560
Speaker 2: they're wrong.

626
00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:35,600
Speaker 1: Right. It does seem like lar at me. Wyoming has tried.

627
00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:38,680
Speaker 2: Really hard to but can you imagine your name has

628
00:31:38,760 --> 00:31:41,760
Speaker 2: become synonymous with like gay murder.

629
00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:44,400
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, it seems like they've tried to change their

630
00:31:44,440 --> 00:31:46,520
Speaker 1: ways and show that they're not, you know, like that,

631
00:31:46,560 --> 00:31:49,760
Speaker 1: and hopefully we get some emails from hometowns of people

632
00:31:49,840 --> 00:31:51,800
Speaker 1: from there. Yeah, there are a lot of emails of

633
00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:53,840
Speaker 1: people being like, I'm from here, and we just want

634
00:31:53,880 --> 00:31:55,800
Speaker 1: you to know that it's not like that anymore. And

635
00:31:55,840 --> 00:31:57,640
Speaker 1: we've changed and we accept it.

636
00:31:57,600 --> 00:32:01,080
Speaker 2: And people have tried to memorialize it and really learn

637
00:32:01,160 --> 00:32:04,320
Speaker 2: from it. And I don't know, it's so tough. It's

638
00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:07,720
Speaker 2: just so big, that's what it is. I think that

639
00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:10,600
Speaker 2: discussion is just like you can't put a silver lining

640
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:12,800
Speaker 2: on a thing that continues.

641
00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:14,040
Speaker 1: To just be this fight.

642
00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:17,960
Speaker 2: This is just one marginalized group, This is just one

643
00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:22,440
Speaker 2: of the many in this country that this happens too constantly.

644
00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:25,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, totally. I do think it is this funny thing

645
00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:28,040
Speaker 1: of like us older people, like when I see a

646
00:32:28,080 --> 00:32:30,520
Speaker 1: gay couple or have you know my friends who are gay,

647
00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:34,200
Speaker 1: I'm just so happy for them because we think about

648
00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:36,240
Speaker 1: how did it used to be, how it used to be,

649
00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:38,240
Speaker 1: and how oh dom.

650
00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:40,960
Speaker 2: And I watch Tricksay and Katia videos and them laughing

651
00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:43,280
Speaker 2: my ass off, and they're like doing live shows with

652
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:46,960
Speaker 2: gigantic audiences and stuff, and I'm like, this is the

653
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:51,040
Speaker 2: dream of me and my high school friends in the

654
00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:53,800
Speaker 2: in the theater department, all the nerds and weirdos where

655
00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:57,160
Speaker 2: it was like but but all these nerds and weirdos

656
00:32:57,160 --> 00:32:59,480
Speaker 2: are the funniest and most talented in the best ones,

657
00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:01,920
Speaker 2: and like we're the ones that should have a say,

658
00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:06,000
Speaker 2: And it's like, hopefully we're clawing toward a world. The

659
00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:10,400
Speaker 2: worst things get the more people know and understand how

660
00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:12,760
Speaker 2: much they have to fight and fight for each other

661
00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:17,120
Speaker 2: in whatever way you are marginalized or you are separate

662
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:20,200
Speaker 2: or different. It's just like, then that's how you have

663
00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:22,480
Speaker 2: to bring the fight, yeah for everybody else?

664
00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:25,400
Speaker 1: Well, should we end it by doing a donation to

665
00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:26,600
Speaker 1: the Matthew Shepherd Foundation.

666
00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:27,440
Speaker 2: Yes we should.

667
00:33:27,480 --> 00:33:30,520
Speaker 1: Okay, it's Matthew Shepherd dot org and we're gonna donate

668
00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:31,560
Speaker 1: ten thousand.

669
00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:33,840
Speaker 2: Dollars and you go donate whatever you can. If you

670
00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:37,120
Speaker 2: don't have money, you can volunteer, you can get involved. Well,

671
00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:39,280
Speaker 2: great job, and you're right, it's an important story to

672
00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:42,240
Speaker 2: tell and a good way to kick off Pride months.

673
00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:45,240
Speaker 1: Right, totally. I wore my Pride dress on purpose.

674
00:33:45,560 --> 00:33:48,440
Speaker 2: Hey, I didn't notice those little rainbows.

675
00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:49,720
Speaker 1: I can't believe it still fit me.

676
00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:53,760
Speaker 2: I know that is the most eighties dress of all time.

677
00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:56,040
Speaker 1: I know, isn't it so good? Look at my tiny

678
00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:57,080
Speaker 1: little heart necklace.

679
00:33:57,240 --> 00:33:59,000
Speaker 2: Oh you have so many things.

680
00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:02,480
Speaker 1: I have so many things. Well, thank you guys for listening.

681
00:34:02,920 --> 00:34:05,360
Speaker 1: Email us your memories about this time, if you need

682
00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:07,480
Speaker 1: to get it off your chest, or how it affected you.

683
00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:09,160
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm sure we have listeners that it affected

684
00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:11,560
Speaker 1: them personally as well. Yes, so email us at gmail

685
00:34:11,680 --> 00:34:14,160
Speaker 1: for sure, at gmail at my favorite murder a jail.

686
00:34:14,320 --> 00:34:16,799
Speaker 2: Just just call Gmail and tell them you need to

687
00:34:16,840 --> 00:34:19,440
Speaker 2: send au semessage. That's right, Yes, write in anything you

688
00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:23,040
Speaker 2: think you'd like us to know. Yeah, and stay sexy.

689
00:34:22,719 --> 00:34:26,319
Speaker 1: And don't get murdered. Go Bye, Elvis, Do you want

690
00:34:26,320 --> 00:34:26,720
Speaker 1: a cookie?

691
00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:36,040
Speaker 2: This has been an exactly right production.

692
00:34:36,200 --> 00:34:38,920
Speaker 1: Our senior producer is Molly Smith and our associate producer

693
00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:39,720
Speaker 1: is Tessa Hughes.

694
00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:41,719
Speaker 2: Our editor is Aristotle Ascevedo.

695
00:34:41,880 --> 00:34:43,920
Speaker 1: This episode was mixed by Leona Squalocci.

696
00:34:44,160 --> 00:34:46,760
Speaker 2: Our researchers are Mayor McGlashan and Ali Elkin.

697
00:34:46,920 --> 00:34:49,759
Speaker 1: Email your hometowns to My Favorite Murder at gmail.

698
00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:51,680
Speaker 2: Dot com and follow the show on Instagram at my

699
00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:52,440
Speaker 2: Favorite Murder.

700
00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:55,320
Speaker 1: Listen to My Favorite Murder on the iHeartRadio app, Apple

701
00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:57,320
Speaker 1: Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

702
00:34:57,320 --> 00:34:59,719
Speaker 2: And now you can watch My Favorite Murder on Netflix.

703
00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:02,040
Speaker 1: When you're there, hit the double thumbs up and the

704
00:35:02,120 --> 00:35:04,840
Speaker 1: remind Me buttons. That's the best way you can support

705
00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:09,360
Speaker 1: our show. Goodbye,