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Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, we are coming to a town ostensibly near you,

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Speaker 1: so putatively see us.

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Speaker 2: That's right, May twenty ninth. We'll be in Boston, really Medford, Massachusetts.

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Speaker 2: The next night we're gonna go down to Washington, DC,

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Speaker 2: and then scooch back up to New York City at

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Speaker 2: Town Hall on May thirty first.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and if you're one of those people who likes

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Speaker 1: to plan way far in advance, then you can go

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Speaker 1: ahead and get tickets for our shows in August. We're

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Speaker 1: gonna start out where Chuck.

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Speaker 2: We're gonna be in Chicago August seventh, Minneapolis August eighth,

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Speaker 2: then Indianapolis for the very first time on August ninth,

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Speaker 2: and then we're gonna wrap it up in Durham, North Carolina,

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Speaker 2: and right here in Atlanta on September fifth and September seventh.

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Speaker 1: Yep. So you can get all the info you need

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Speaker 1: and all the ticket links you need by going to

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Speaker 1: stuff youshould Know dot com and hitting that tour button,

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Speaker 1: or you can also go to linktree slash SYSK Live.

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Speaker 1: We'll see you guys this year.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to Stuff you Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 1: Hey, and welcome to the podcast I'm Josh, and there's

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Speaker 1: Chuck and Ben's here too, and this is stuff you should.

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Speaker 2: Know, wind edition because it's blowing my microphone all over

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Speaker 2: the place. Of what is going on here?

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Speaker 1: I feel like you should handle this one and I'll

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Speaker 1: just do WIN sound effects in the background the whole time.

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Speaker 2: Okay, that'll be good. My studio's haunted today. I don't

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Speaker 2: know what's happening.

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Speaker 1: Is it eerie?

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Speaker 2: No? Just nothing is right. Sometimes I feel like Ruby

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Speaker 2: comes in here and messes with stuff. Oh no, I

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Speaker 2: think that's the ghost.

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Speaker 1: Oh my goodness, that's hilarious. Oh what happens in it?

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Speaker 1: I do this?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, like the lights are down, everything's different. Huh okay,

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Speaker 2: all right, I'm fine. I'm back to normal.

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Speaker 1: Well I'm back to normal too. I'm gonna go ahead

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Speaker 1: and presume Ben's back to normal. So you listener. If

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Speaker 1: you're back to normal, great, we can get started then.

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Speaker 1: If not, we'll wait. Just email us.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So we're talking about wind power, and I guess

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Speaker 2: a good starting point would be history and not to

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Speaker 2: get to like in the weeds with you know, sailing

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Speaker 2: ships and stuff like that, because people have long been

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Speaker 2: using wind for different things. But I think as far

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Speaker 2: as generating power early on, you know, water was the thing.

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Speaker 2: Obviously Cole was the thing. But there was a guy,

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Speaker 2: a very intelligent Scott and we love our Scottish people.

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Speaker 2: In eighteen eighty seven, it was an engineer who designed

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Speaker 2: the first wind turbine to do what we're talking about today.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and it's not like he was the first person

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Speaker 1: to come up with a wind turbine. I mean, everybody

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Speaker 1: knows the Dutch had windmills for centuries and centuries before,

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Speaker 1: but this guy was the first one to try to

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Speaker 1: genuinely harness wind power to generate electricity. His name was

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Speaker 1: James Blythe and he had a second home apparently in

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Speaker 1: the town of mary Kirk in Scotland, which has great

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Speaker 1: gotch I assume. And he had so much power from

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Speaker 1: his wind turbine, chuck, that he offered the access of

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Speaker 1: it to the town of mary Kirk. And this guy

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Speaker 1: was so advanced he had twelve batteries storing the electrical

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Speaker 1: power that his wind turbine was generating. He just invented

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Speaker 1: it like lock stock and barrel the first time.

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Speaker 2: Out Great Scott.

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Speaker 1: Literally he really wasn't Great Scott, so.

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Speaker 2: You know, and on small scales. People came behind him

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Speaker 2: and were doing it, but it wasn't really until a gentleman,

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Speaker 2: a Danish gentleman, a meteorologist named I've never seen that

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Speaker 2: pou L poll I guess polar Coor he is the

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Speaker 2: one who really has a lot of the you know,

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Speaker 2: gets a lot of the credit rightfully. So we're kind

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Speaker 2: of getting when generated power going in a serious way

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Speaker 2: because in the eighteen nineties he's like, you know what,

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Speaker 2: I can produce a steady stream of power. This thing

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Speaker 2: isn't as intermittent as they were before, and I'm actually

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Speaker 2: going to create enough power for my village, for the

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Speaker 2: village of Askoff, and I'm going to have found something

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Speaker 2: that sounds like sorcery. I'm gonna found the Society of

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Speaker 2: Wind Electricians even.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and he did. He was very successful. Out of

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Speaker 1: the gate. That was nineteen oh eighteen ninety five. He

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Speaker 1: started nineteen oh eight. There were seventy two different systems

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Speaker 1: running in Denmark and each of them had a capacity

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Speaker 1: between five and twenty five kilowatts, which is peanuts peanuts now,

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Speaker 1: but at the time. This is remember in our Love

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Speaker 1: Canal episode where electricity for a while no matter how

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Speaker 1: you generated, it had to be generated like right next

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Speaker 1: to where you were distributing the power. So it would

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Speaker 1: make sense that you'd have a windmill like right at

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Speaker 1: the village that was being powered, because if you were

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Speaker 1: getting it from a coal fire plant, you had to

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Speaker 1: have it right there too, So that I made wind

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Speaker 1: kind of competitive for a while, and even until the

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Speaker 1: into the twentieth century, it was still fairly competitive, even

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Speaker 1: as coal and gas fired electrical plants started to take

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Speaker 1: over because in rural areas they didn't have access to

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Speaker 1: the grid, so they were using wind turbines. And then

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Speaker 1: finally FDR comes along and said, n's to that, We're

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Speaker 1: electrifying this whole darn toutin country, and the wind turbines

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Speaker 1: fell over in surprise, and coal fired electrical grids took over.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and they pretty much held the you know, the

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Speaker 2: high ground until the nineties, when there was a renewed

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Speaker 2: interest in wind. Things got a little windy in the

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Speaker 2: nineties and ninety two Congress passed a tax credit. Clinton

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Speaker 2: came along after that, you know, started to fund more

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Speaker 2: you know, basically federal projects toward wind, and then states

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Speaker 2: got on board individually, especially states like Texas and Iowa.

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Speaker 2: You know, if you're out and you have lots of

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Speaker 2: of wind, lots of open planes, you can generate more

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Speaker 2: wind energy. And Texas, for their part, has really, you know,

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Speaker 2: up until recent years, been super supportive of wind energy

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Speaker 2: and are far and away the leader in US wind energy.

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Speaker 2: But as just as far as like raw numbers, from

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Speaker 2: nineteen ninety to twenty ten, we went from almost two

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Speaker 2: point eight billion kilowatt hours to close to five point

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Speaker 2: six billion, and then twenty ten that jumped to ninety

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Speaker 2: five billion, which is just a huge jump over that

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Speaker 2: span of time. And then now in twenty twenty two

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Speaker 2: we are at four hundred and thirty four billion kilowat hours.

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Speaker 1: So in thirty two years we went from two point

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Speaker 1: seventy nine billion to four hundred and thirty four billions.

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Speaker 1: That is right, that's pretty rapid progress. I mean, that's amazing.

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Speaker 1: That's just in the United States too, as we'll see

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Speaker 1: like around the world, they're trees who are like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: why don't you catch up, lame mos, and then other

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Speaker 1: countries like China are just jumping ahead of the curve

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Speaker 1: even more impressively. But wind is definitely I'm sorry for this,

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Speaker 1: but wind is picking up around the world.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so we should probably talk a little bit about

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Speaker 2: how the actual machine works. We're going to concentrate on

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Speaker 2: the hot systems, that is the horizontal axis. Hawt just

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Speaker 2: a little bit about the vertical axis. The vaults. They're

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Speaker 2: kind of cool and that you can you don't like

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Speaker 2: have to point it at the wind. But they're smaller,

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Speaker 2: they're slower, they're not as efficient. Therefore, you know, small

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Speaker 2: scale generation, So those aren't sort of the big daddies,

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Speaker 2: the big players in the field. It's really the hot

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Speaker 2: rotors that are hot.

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Speaker 1: They're hella hot, they are. So Yeah, if you have

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Speaker 1: a small what's called a distributed system, which is like

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Speaker 1: that thing that say James Blyth Paul LeCour came up

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Speaker 1: with that just powers like a very small area, you're

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Speaker 1: probably going to do a vertical axis type. It's like

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Speaker 1: a merry go round with sails around it. But the

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Speaker 1: sails are actually wind turbines and it looks cool, cooler

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Speaker 1: than a horizontal axis one if you ask me. But

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Speaker 1: the horizontal ones are most ubiquitous because they can generate

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Speaker 1: power in aces compared to the vertical types. Right, they're

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Speaker 1: way more efficient. You can make them way bigger, because

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Speaker 1: if you're making something with a vertical axis, it takes

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Speaker 1: up ground space because it's basically on the ground. The

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Speaker 1: horizontal ones, they're way up in the air, catching generally

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Speaker 1: steady streams of air that have very little turbulence, that

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Speaker 1: are moving fairly fast compared to the stuff on the ground,

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Speaker 1: and they can convert it very efficiently, at least as

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Speaker 1: far as wind turbines are concerned into electricity.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you mentioned the size. These are the you know,

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Speaker 2: if you're traveling out west in the planes or something

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Speaker 2: and you see a wind farm. These are the big

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Speaker 2: daddies that we're talking about. The little guys are about

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Speaker 2: eight feet in diameter. These you know, these are the rotors.

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Speaker 2: But if you go offshore, and we'll talk a little

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Speaker 2: bit more about what's going what's going on in the ocean,

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Speaker 2: but those can be eight hundred feet generate up to

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Speaker 2: eighteen megawatts, which is just a lot of power being generated.

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Speaker 2: And I mean those things are just absolutely enormous, Like

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Speaker 2: I can't even picture what an eight hundred foot turbine

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Speaker 2: might look like.

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Speaker 1: So take three football fields, cut off just a little

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Speaker 1: bit of the third one, and then that's the the

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Speaker 1: turbine diameter. I mean, it's so massive it like boggles

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Speaker 1: the mind, even though we're talking about you know, a

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Speaker 1: few hundred feet. It's just I just can't imagine what

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Speaker 1: that looks like up close.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, same, so connecting to the US power grid. Like

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Speaker 2: the size of these things have basically increased over time.

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Speaker 2: They've just gotten bigger and bigger and bigger these days.

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Speaker 2: If you're talking like not those gargantuans offshore, but irregular

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Speaker 2: like terrestrial turbine on a wind farm is generally about

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Speaker 2: four hundred to four hundred and fifty feet in diameter,

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Speaker 2: they're about thirty eight to thirty five feet off the ground,

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Speaker 2: and they generate each one about three point two megawatts.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and this is actually a case where bigger's better.

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Speaker 1: From what I've seen, the bigger they are means that

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Speaker 1: they can generate more electricity, which means that you need

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Speaker 1: fewer of them on site. So I saw the average

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Speaker 1: is expected to go down in like next year from

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Speaker 1: two hundred and twenty two turbines and like a good

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Speaker 1: sized average wind turbine farm to eighty nine, so you

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Speaker 1: got far fewer. They're bigger, but they also are figuring

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Speaker 1: out how to make them quieter. Two, So by going bigger,

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Speaker 1: they're actually getting a lot more out of it. It's

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Speaker 1: kind of like one of those things where the economy

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Speaker 1: of scale just exceeds the sum of its parts, which

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Speaker 1: is two different things. But I put them together expertly

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Speaker 1: if you ask me.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and these things they got to be spaced apart.

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Speaker 2: You can't put them obviously right on each other, so

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Speaker 2: that makes a difference. You know, if you have fewer

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Speaker 2: of them, they're not spread out as far obviously geographically.

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Speaker 2: And we'll talk about it a little bit more, but

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Speaker 2: you know, it's not like you can't do anything with

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Speaker 2: the land. A lot of times you'll just see them

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Speaker 2: out kind of the middle of nowhere, but that can

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Speaker 2: be cataland and stuff like that.

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Speaker 1: Yes, So usually the horizontal axis wind turbines, which are

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Speaker 1: just the wind turbines you've seen pictures of or video of,

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Speaker 1: or maybe even seen off in the distance, depending on

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Speaker 1: where you're driving around, they usually have three blades, and

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Speaker 1: three is kind of this magic number because the more

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Speaker 1: blades you have, the more drag it produces. Each blade

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Speaker 1: experiences drag from the air as it moves through the air.

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Speaker 1: The air is like, no, stop doing that and tries

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Speaker 1: to like stop it. And even though it's individual for

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Speaker 1: each blade, they accumulate and combine and transfer that to

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Speaker 1: the rotor, so it experiences five blades worth of drag.

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Speaker 1: So three blades is kind of sweet because you can

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Speaker 1: generate quite a bit of electricity, can capture a bunch

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Speaker 1: of wind, but you're also reducing drag dramatically. So that's

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Speaker 1: why basically every single horizontal access turbine has three blades.

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Speaker 2: What's your ceiling fan?

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Speaker 1: Preth definitely more than I don't know. I'm trying to think.

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Speaker 1: Now I've got such a strange variety of ceiling fans

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Speaker 1: that I think about it, I'm gonna say I'll go

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Speaker 1: with three. Sure, three, what's yours?

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Speaker 2: I typically like a five blader?

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Speaker 1: Okay?

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Speaker 2: Uh? Four is okay? I've got one three, and I've

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Speaker 2: realized that I don't really like it, And boy do

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Speaker 2: I hate those two bladers.

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Speaker 1: Those should not exist. I think that's that's broken, is

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Speaker 1: what you're describing.

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Speaker 2: I know people like them, so I don't want to

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Speaker 2: yuck someone's jum, but aesthetically I don't care for the

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Speaker 2: two blade propeller style ceiling fan.

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Speaker 1: Okay, here's the big question though. Do you like those

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Speaker 1: fans that look like fans that they might have used

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Speaker 1: in Casablanca in the nineteen thirties.

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Speaker 2: Oh? Oh, that are ceiling fans.

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Speaker 1: Yes, that's what the blades look like.

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Speaker 2: No, I don't like to get too like weird. Okay,

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Speaker 2: Well here's the real question, though you thought you had

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Speaker 2: the real question. Do you do you get up and

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Speaker 2: change the direction of that thing every year?

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Speaker 1: Sometimes yes, depending on whether I'm chilly thinking about it

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Speaker 1: or I'm motivated. Okay, yeah, those are the two factors

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Speaker 1: that are you have to combine.

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Speaker 2: I think that's the factor for almost everyone, except for

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Speaker 2: the you know, the real fastidious person who just has

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Speaker 2: it on their calendar.

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Speaker 1: Even I don't have that on my calendar. And I'm

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Speaker 1: suddenly impressed with myself and kind of relieved.

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Speaker 2: No good. So the hats, you know, we said that

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Speaker 2: those the vertical winds don't need to be pointed at

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Speaker 2: the wind. The hats do face into the wind. But

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Speaker 2: you might think, well, the wind changes, and josh, how

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Speaker 2: is that possible. Well, they do it by moving the

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Speaker 2: turbine to face the wind. It's got a y'all system,

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Speaker 2: so it's you know, it's not too hard to do.

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Speaker 2: And they also have pitch systems. They can change the

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Speaker 2: actual angle of the blades to help control that rotor

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Speaker 2: speed to really maximize efficiency A and B protect it

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Speaker 2: because what you don't want during like a really big

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Speaker 2: windstorm is for those you might think like, oh man,

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Speaker 2: those things get really cooking. That's awesome. They don't need

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Speaker 2: to get too cooking. It's like a motor spinning too

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Speaker 2: fast is just never good.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it can break pretty easy. So if they change

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Speaker 1: the angle of the blade relative to the direction of

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Speaker 1: the wind, the winds is going to push on it

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Speaker 1: rather than making it spin. And so if it pushes

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Speaker 1: on it, it's going to go much slower. So you

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Speaker 1: still want them to kind of move, but not too fast.

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Speaker 1: And that's pretty cool that they've got that figured out. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so you got yaw control, pitch control, and the whole

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Speaker 1: thing is connected to a rotator that is connected to

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Speaker 1: a generator and sometimes you've got a gearbox in the middle.

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Speaker 1: Because here's the thing. One of the reasons why wind

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Speaker 1: didn't catch on or didn't continue to spread as coal

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Speaker 1: did is because it's really difficult to get a windmill

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Speaker 1: rotor to spin fast enough to generate electricity using traditional electromagnets, right,

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Speaker 1: you need something like eighteen hundred RPMs to really get

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Speaker 1: a good electrical buzz cooking and win windmill rotors, especially

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Speaker 1: the big ones these days, they're at like five ten

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Speaker 1: eighteen sixty I think is about the top that I saw,

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Speaker 1: so about one rotation a second, which is still a

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Speaker 1: third of what it needs to be to generate electricity.

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Speaker 1: Although by the way, they've got that figured out. But

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Speaker 1: for like one that's using a traditional dynamo, not dynamo,

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Speaker 1: I guess generator. Right, where you've got like magnets spinning

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Speaker 1: through coils to generate electricity, they have a gearbox and somehow,

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Speaker 1: through some sort of black magic, I just genuinely don't

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Speaker 1: understand gears, Chuck, we have to do an episode on

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Speaker 1: and I guess, but.

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Speaker 2: Oh no, no, no, no, no, you don't want to do that.

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Speaker 1: It translates that sixty rotations a minute into eighteen hundred

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Speaker 1: just by changing the direction. I don't know how they

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Speaker 1: do it. I know that it's really basic stuff that

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Speaker 1: even like Archimedes used to mess with. I just can't

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Speaker 1: wrap my head around how that happens.

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Speaker 2: Well, I definitely don't want to do something on gears

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Speaker 2: because many years ago, I'm pretty sure I updated the

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Speaker 2: old House Stuffworks article on gears okay, and it's it's

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Speaker 2: pretty mind numbing and boring. Okay, but you know, just

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Speaker 2: think about the size of gears and like a gears

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Speaker 2: with tons and tons of teeth, you know, hooking up

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Speaker 2: and making love to a gear with fewer teeth is

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Speaker 2: gonna like that top one's going to be spinning really

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Speaker 2: fast and the other one's gonna be spinning less.

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Speaker 1: Don't still doesn't make sense to me.

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Speaker 2: Really well, have you ever seen a gear like, you know,

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Speaker 2: like a gift or something of gears at work?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I looked it up for this just to try

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Speaker 1: to see if I could wrap my head around at

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Speaker 1: this time, and it still just wouldn't work.

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Speaker 2: Well, Fewer teeth just means slower.

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Speaker 1: But that doesn't make sense, like I understand that there's

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Speaker 1: more teeth means faster. How that's what I get it.

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Speaker 2: It's catching fewer teeth, which is like the go button. Basically,

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Speaker 2: ill on this, We'll move on.

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Speaker 1: I don't think it's gonna.

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Speaker 2: Work out, and here, I'm the one like lobbing to

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Speaker 2: not do this, and I'm trying to explain.

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Speaker 1: It's just sticking a short stuff in the middle of

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Speaker 1: this episode.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Here's another fun fact is the uh and this

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Speaker 2: is not super consequential, but I just thought it was interesting.

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Speaker 2: Is the gearbox and all that stuff is up tall

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Speaker 2: in the tower and something called a nestle And that

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Speaker 2: is an aviation term. That's like planes have nestles, so

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Speaker 2: just like you have a spinning propeller on a plane. Okay, yeah,

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Speaker 2: so it's an aviation term. Kind of cool.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So like that whole thing that it looks like

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Speaker 1: the turbines are mounted to that, that whole thing is

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Speaker 1: basically the nestle, and it's where the gearbox and the

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Speaker 1: rotor and the generator are all tucked in, right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I think it's like off of the blades, just

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Speaker 2: like it would be on a plane.

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Speaker 1: So the thing with the gearbox, it really works like

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Speaker 1: you can get some pretty good electricity out of a

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Speaker 1: relatively small set of moving parts. But they are moving parts,

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Speaker 1: and they're way up high, usually dozens of feet in

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Speaker 1: the air, and they can be loud too, and they

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Speaker 1: can get dirty and break down like any gears can.

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Speaker 1: So there's another kind called a direct drive system and

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Speaker 1: it it basically they figured out and I couldn't get

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Speaker 1: to the bottom of this, they can use that regular

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Speaker 1: rotation of a of a wind turbine to generate electricity.

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Speaker 1: I think they just it just requires much larger parts.

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Speaker 1: I think it's generally what the trade off is. So

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Speaker 1: there's pros and cons to both kinds, and they've kind

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Speaker 1: of come up with some new stuff that's on the

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Speaker 1: horizon are happening now that seem to kind of supersede

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Speaker 1: both of those too, as we'll talk about.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and you know, no matter how efficient you can

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Speaker 2: build really any kind of power generation system, there are limits.

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Speaker 2: At a certain point. You can increase efficiency and increase efficiency,

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Speaker 2: but then the laws of physics step in and say,

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Speaker 2: you can't be one hundred percent efficient. You're never going

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Speaker 2: to capture every bit of the wind. It's just not possible.

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Speaker 2: And there was a German physicist in nineteen nineteen named

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Speaker 2: Albert Binns who calculated the theoretical maximum of kinetic energy

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Speaker 2: that you can zap into electricity, and it basically caps

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Speaker 2: off a close to sixty fifty nine point three percent.

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Speaker 2: Wind is about thirty five to forty five percent efficient,

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Speaker 2: which may not sound great, but Olivia helped us out

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Speaker 2: with this. She points out, you know, wind is free,

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Speaker 2: so it's not you know, you've got these things sitting

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Speaker 2: out there, so it's not like you're paying to generate

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Speaker 2: that wind.

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Speaker 1: Right. Plus, also, if you look into the other types

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Speaker 1: of fuels used to generate electricity, it's perfectly in line.

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Speaker 1: Nuclear is between thirty to forty five percent efficient, coals

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Speaker 1: thirty eight to forty five. Natural gas is only twenty

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Speaker 1: five percent efficient. So it's way better than natural gas

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Speaker 1: as far as efficiency goes. And if you're wondering why

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Speaker 1: can it be one hundred percent efficient? The explanation that

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Speaker 1: I found that I'm still having trouble digesting too. I

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Speaker 1: think the gears thing really threw me off first. Then

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Speaker 1: I went into this and it was just hopeless. To

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Speaker 1: transfer one hundred percent of the power from wind to

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Speaker 1: a turbine. That means the wind has to come to

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Speaker 1: a stop and transfer all of its energy to the

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Speaker 1: turbine when it comes in contact with it. And I

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Speaker 1: understand that means the wind stops. But as long as

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Speaker 1: there's a stream of wind coming at you. Why would

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Speaker 1: that matter? That's my big question.

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Speaker 2: I don't know. I'm not gonna hazard, I guess on

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Speaker 2: this one.

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Speaker 1: All right, well, how about this. We'll take a break

391
00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:07,200
Speaker 1: to everybody else. It will just be a couple of ads,

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Speaker 1: but you and I will spend the next forty five

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Speaker 1: minutes or so hashing this out.

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Speaker 2: All right, Can we have lunch?

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Speaker 1: We can have bult We'll order it.

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Speaker 3: Okay, all right, we're gonna talk a little bit about

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Speaker 3: where we stand today here in the United States.

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Speaker 2: We'll get to elsewhere in the world later on. Don't

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Speaker 2: you worry. We're looking at you, Denmark. Right now, the

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Speaker 2: United States has about seventy thousand wind turbines going with

401
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Speaker 2: a capacity a total potential capacity of about one hundred

402
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Speaker 2: and forty six gigaway, which should make Doc Brown shake

403
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Speaker 2: in his whatever kind of shoes he wore.

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Speaker 1: I looked up what that is relative to what we use.

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Speaker 1: I think we use something like thirteen hundred gigawatts, so

406
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Speaker 1: it's like a tenth of that. But that's still pretty good.

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Speaker 1: I mean, think about it. We went from like basically

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Speaker 1: zero wind power in the eighties to a tenth of

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Speaker 1: our capacity is in the form of wind turbines.

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Speaker 2: Nothing on Doc Brown.

411
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Speaker 1: Huh No, I just think it was gonna so it

412
00:22:32,080 --> 00:22:35,120
Speaker 1: fit so perfectly that it'd be like me pointing out

413
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Speaker 1: that we've been using the word turbine. You know what

414
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Speaker 1: I mean?

415
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Speaker 2: Do you know who Doc Brown is? Sure who?

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Speaker 1: He's like Christopher Lloyd from Back to the Future. What

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Speaker 1: kind of person do you think I am? Do you

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Speaker 1: know me at all?

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Speaker 2: I guess the kind of person who refuses to comment

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Speaker 2: on a great Doc Brown joke.

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Speaker 1: I was commenting on it. I was saying that it

422
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Speaker 1: was such a perfect joke and it was inserted so

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Speaker 1: perfectly that there.

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Speaker 2: Was no aid, no comment. Yes, I have to remember

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Speaker 2: that your joke was so good. A note, you know

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Speaker 2: what that you basically just said? Is that so far

427
00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:14,680
Speaker 2: any I forgot to laugh. So last year twenty twenty three,

428
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Speaker 2: about ten percent of our electricity came from win Not

429
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Speaker 2: too bad. I mentioned Texas as the leader. They're generating

430
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Speaker 2: about twenty five percent of that a little more.

431
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Speaker 1: Even that's just mind boggling to think considering Texas.

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Speaker 2: You know they are, well, let's talk about Texas for

433
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Speaker 2: a second, because they have been far and away the

434
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Speaker 2: leader they got a lot of wide open land there

435
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Speaker 2: in West Texas. They had their own their own power grid.

436
00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:43,720
Speaker 2: They're the only state with their own power grid, so

437
00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:46,600
Speaker 2: that makes it a lot easier for them with interstate

438
00:23:46,680 --> 00:23:49,040
Speaker 2: projects to not have to you know, they can rely

439
00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:52,880
Speaker 2: on themselves like Texans like to do. But here's the thing.

440
00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:57,159
Speaker 2: In recent years, I don't think it's a stretch to

441
00:23:57,160 --> 00:24:02,159
Speaker 2: say that there's been some I mean, Livia calls it

442
00:24:02,400 --> 00:24:07,520
Speaker 2: ideological warfare, and she's basically right. And that's unfortunate because

443
00:24:07,560 --> 00:24:11,359
Speaker 2: now there are conservatives in Texas that are making it

444
00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:14,520
Speaker 2: harder to do something they're really really good at, and

445
00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:18,399
Speaker 2: that's generate wind for power. And that's a real shame

446
00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:22,960
Speaker 2: because it seems like ideology. I mean, I know there

447
00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:26,359
Speaker 2: are and we'll talk about downsides of wind production and

448
00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:28,679
Speaker 2: there are gripes that it's you know, there might be

449
00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:31,240
Speaker 2: inconsistent supply, but it really seems to kind of come

450
00:24:31,240 --> 00:24:34,919
Speaker 2: down to, like, no, we are an oil state, and

451
00:24:34,960 --> 00:24:37,960
Speaker 2: we're even though we're great at making win, we I

452
00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:39,040
Speaker 2: guess can't do both.

453
00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:41,600
Speaker 1: I don't know, but I mean, even though they are

454
00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:44,680
Speaker 1: an oil state, they've been an oil state for decades

455
00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:48,080
Speaker 1: and decades like a century basically, and they still spend

456
00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:51,400
Speaker 1: all this time and money and effort into creating this

457
00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:54,080
Speaker 1: wind infrastructure.

458
00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:55,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, still in Texas.

459
00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:57,359
Speaker 1: I don't think it has anything to do with oil.

460
00:24:57,440 --> 00:25:01,960
Speaker 1: I think I think a certain vein of conservativism equates

461
00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:05,960
Speaker 1: anything part friendly to liberals.

462
00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:07,640
Speaker 2: I know, I know, and like.

463
00:25:07,960 --> 00:25:10,679
Speaker 1: Because everything's so divisive and the sides are just so

464
00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:14,560
Speaker 1: divided that like you just can't possibly be into something

465
00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:17,720
Speaker 1: that liberals favor, Like that's just crazy and vice versa.

466
00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:19,880
Speaker 1: Like there's I mean, I don't mean to just say

467
00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:23,879
Speaker 1: like this is all conservatives. Like the divisiveness. Definitely, it

468
00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:27,160
Speaker 1: can be found on both sides of the equation. It's

469
00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:29,960
Speaker 1: just sad that there's two sides. Let's just get past

470
00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:30,439
Speaker 1: the sides.

471
00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:33,960
Speaker 2: Everybody, Well, it's sad that it's affecting something like this, which,

472
00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:36,200
Speaker 2: like I said, Texas is really really good at they

473
00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:38,720
Speaker 2: have a lot a lot of it figured out. They're

474
00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:42,240
Speaker 2: they're the leader in the United States, Like, keep it,

475
00:25:42,320 --> 00:25:43,440
Speaker 2: keep it going, Texas.

476
00:25:43,520 --> 00:25:48,399
Speaker 1: The thing is this chuck they're trying, they're not necessarily succeeding.

477
00:25:48,760 --> 00:25:51,439
Speaker 1: In the twenty twenty two twenty twenty three session, a

478
00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:56,080
Speaker 1: whole raft of bills that were trying to basically make

479
00:25:56,800 --> 00:26:01,399
Speaker 1: win power investment harder. None of them past, and I

480
00:26:01,440 --> 00:26:03,159
Speaker 1: think the reason why, and this is kind of like

481
00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:05,320
Speaker 1: the thing like, yes, you can oppose wind power, but

482
00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:09,080
Speaker 1: I think the giant gears are already in motion, like

483
00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:13,399
Speaker 1: massive corporations. But you don't know how those were, I know,

484
00:26:13,440 --> 00:26:16,600
Speaker 1: I don't, but I can tell when they're moving, I guess, so,

485
00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:21,879
Speaker 1: like just giant multinational corporations have sunk so many tens

486
00:26:21,920 --> 00:26:25,480
Speaker 1: and hundreds of billions of dollars into this investment and

487
00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:29,879
Speaker 1: are starting now to actually reap benefit from it. It's

488
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:32,880
Speaker 1: not going back like sorry, it's just not so it's

489
00:26:32,880 --> 00:26:34,800
Speaker 1: still moving forward. It just sucks that it has to

490
00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:37,040
Speaker 1: move forward at this in this kind of.

491
00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:38,600
Speaker 2: Like slow pace.

492
00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:41,560
Speaker 1: It's just a negative but with a negative vibe, you.

493
00:26:41,520 --> 00:26:46,119
Speaker 2: Know, yeah, no, totally. I mean hopefully you know, Americans

494
00:26:46,119 --> 00:26:48,440
Speaker 2: are capitalists, and hopefully money well went out on the end, because,

495
00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:51,000
Speaker 2: like you said, a lot of money invested and a

496
00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:52,120
Speaker 2: lot of money to be made.

497
00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:55,720
Speaker 1: The thing is, though, that's not to say that people

498
00:26:55,760 --> 00:27:02,399
Speaker 1: who oppose, especially locally, oppose when projects don't have a point.

499
00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:04,600
Speaker 1: There's a lot to be said about not wanting to

500
00:27:04,640 --> 00:27:09,119
Speaker 1: live near a wind turbine, in particular a wind farm,

501
00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:13,480
Speaker 1: because it's just one of those things that like, this

502
00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:16,840
Speaker 1: is going to impact your life. It can impact your

503
00:27:16,840 --> 00:27:19,800
Speaker 1: real estate values, it can impact what's called the view shed,

504
00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:24,879
Speaker 1: just simply your view. There's actual legitimate reasons for people

505
00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:27,560
Speaker 1: to push back on this stuff, but that doesn't mean

506
00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:29,840
Speaker 1: that there can't be like a compromise, a way forward

507
00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:35,280
Speaker 1: to find legitimate places where wind can be generated well

508
00:27:35,480 --> 00:27:39,719
Speaker 1: and efficiently without you know, ruining some nearby community.

509
00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:43,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean there's definitely a lot of what's called

510
00:27:43,440 --> 00:27:48,280
Speaker 2: nimbi going on, Yeah, on both sides, you know, well, yeah.

511
00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:50,800
Speaker 1: For sure, And again I don't blame anybody for that.

512
00:27:50,920 --> 00:27:56,480
Speaker 1: It sucks because that whole idea means that usually poorer

513
00:27:56,480 --> 00:28:00,119
Speaker 1: communities who can't represent themselves and don't have the the

514
00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:03,320
Speaker 1: means to really like have the political clout to push

515
00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:05,720
Speaker 1: back on that kind of thing, end up with this stuff.

516
00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:10,480
Speaker 1: But it seems like that with with things like wind

517
00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:15,920
Speaker 1: turbine farms in particular, the decision making is being decentralized,

518
00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:18,639
Speaker 1: so more and more local communities are being able to

519
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:20,760
Speaker 1: step in and being like, no, this is not happening.

520
00:28:20,800 --> 00:28:21,000
Speaker 2: Here.

521
00:28:21,040 --> 00:28:24,080
Speaker 1: Sorry, we're our city council voted against it. It's not happening,

522
00:28:24,840 --> 00:28:28,760
Speaker 1: And I think that that's I think that's legitimate. I

523
00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:32,760
Speaker 1: think that I don't know what the way forward is,

524
00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:34,960
Speaker 1: but I know that there's a way forward. But I

525
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:37,199
Speaker 1: don't think it's shoving a wind farm down in a

526
00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:39,280
Speaker 1: local community's throughout, whether they like it or not.

527
00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:42,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, and by the way, an MBA people are like,

528
00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:45,200
Speaker 2: what the heck is Chuck talking about. That's just the acronym,

529
00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:47,920
Speaker 2: the not in my backyard thing. You're like, no, wind

530
00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:49,840
Speaker 2: energy is great, we should totally do it, but I

531
00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:51,680
Speaker 2: don't want one of those in my backyard over there.

532
00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:55,080
Speaker 2: Go do it over there, much much better exactly. But

533
00:28:56,360 --> 00:29:00,160
Speaker 2: moving on, we promised to talk about offshore. Most of

534
00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:02,880
Speaker 2: what's going on right now is on land. In terms

535
00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:06,000
Speaker 2: of wind collection. I guess they're not collecting it, but

536
00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:08,400
Speaker 2: in a way they are, sure. But if you think

537
00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:11,200
Speaker 2: about a lot of wind out on the open ocean,

538
00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:14,560
Speaker 2: that seems like a no brainer in some ways. And

539
00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:17,760
Speaker 2: we will get to the environmental aspects of all this

540
00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:20,360
Speaker 2: stuff later. So people out there screaming like how can

541
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:22,200
Speaker 2: you put more things in the ocean, Like, we'll get

542
00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:26,959
Speaker 2: to it, but it is a promising idea stronger winds.

543
00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:31,080
Speaker 2: There's a lot of permitting issues, obviously what we just

544
00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:33,360
Speaker 2: talked about with the NIMBI thing. A lot of communities,

545
00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:38,720
Speaker 2: you know, beachfront property or generally people who either you know,

546
00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:40,520
Speaker 2: if you're lucky enough to have owned it forever, you

547
00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:43,440
Speaker 2: may not be super wealthy, but most people who like

548
00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:45,840
Speaker 2: live on the beach are wealthy and they don't want

549
00:29:45,880 --> 00:29:48,280
Speaker 2: to see that stuff. So there's been a lot of

550
00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:52,280
Speaker 2: complaints about looking at that kind of thing. But we

551
00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:57,040
Speaker 2: may be headed toward I mean that they're building more

552
00:29:57,080 --> 00:29:59,160
Speaker 2: and more of them in the coming years. It seems

553
00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:00,160
Speaker 2: like is.

554
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:01,360
Speaker 1: Kind of what I was talking about. There was a

555
00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:07,720
Speaker 1: big push against the Vineyard wind project. Yeah, I should

556
00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:09,800
Speaker 1: say there was a vocal push against it. And it's

557
00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:13,560
Speaker 1: still happening. Like they're they're doing i think sixty two turbines,

558
00:30:13,600 --> 00:30:17,160
Speaker 1: they've already got five installed, and it's just it's moving forward.

559
00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:19,520
Speaker 1: But at the same time, like a bunch of local

560
00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:22,800
Speaker 1: people who make their money off of fishing, they were

561
00:30:22,840 --> 00:30:27,000
Speaker 1: affected by this, Like they're fishing grounds were now a

562
00:30:27,040 --> 00:30:30,520
Speaker 1: wind turbine farm. They couldn't fish there anymore, so they're

563
00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:31,920
Speaker 1: being compensated for that.

564
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:36,480
Speaker 2: They're paying commercial fishermen to not fish, essentially.

565
00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:38,440
Speaker 1: To stay out of this area at least or to

566
00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:43,000
Speaker 1: accept a buffer zone. So like, yeah, there's like that's

567
00:30:43,000 --> 00:30:45,640
Speaker 1: what I'm saying. There's compromises to be to be made here.

568
00:30:45,840 --> 00:30:47,800
Speaker 1: And other people are like, this view shed thing, what

569
00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:50,000
Speaker 1: are you talking about? Like, if you hold your hand up,

570
00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:53,800
Speaker 1: the windmill that you see on the horizon is smaller

571
00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:57,200
Speaker 1: than your fingernail, Like, that's what you're seeing. And other

572
00:30:57,240 --> 00:30:58,920
Speaker 1: people like, I don't want to see it.

573
00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:01,200
Speaker 2: I don't think it's swimming out.

574
00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:04,440
Speaker 1: I don't want to see it. But those people seem

575
00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:10,680
Speaker 1: to have I guess they're outnumbered or outgunned by the

576
00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:13,280
Speaker 1: people who are like, no, this project's going forward. And

577
00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:16,840
Speaker 1: again it's tough to argue about it because sure, right now,

578
00:31:16,960 --> 00:31:21,640
Speaker 1: the sixty eight megawatts that that Vineyard Wind project is

579
00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:24,400
Speaker 1: putting out with just the five turbines, that's enough to

580
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:27,880
Speaker 1: power thirty thousand homes, and their goal is something like

581
00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:31,320
Speaker 1: eight hundred megawatts, So there's going to be a lot

582
00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:34,680
Speaker 1: of people getting a lot of clean energy from the

583
00:31:34,720 --> 00:31:35,560
Speaker 1: wind project.

584
00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:39,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, and there are more kind of people are looking

585
00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:41,320
Speaker 2: to the Ocean, the Gulf of Mexico may have one

586
00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:45,600
Speaker 2: at some point. The mid Atlantic is being targeted. Joe

587
00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:48,640
Speaker 2: Biden and his administration have a target of thirty thousand

588
00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:54,720
Speaker 2: megawatt offshore hours by twenty thirty. It seems like like

589
00:31:54,960 --> 00:31:56,840
Speaker 2: we're going to mention a lot of like goals and things.

590
00:31:57,120 --> 00:31:58,880
Speaker 2: It doesn't seem like any of these will be reached,

591
00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:01,760
Speaker 2: but those are the goals at least, And you know,

592
00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:05,680
Speaker 2: we're kind of explaining why as we're going. But California

593
00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:07,720
Speaker 2: is trying to get twenty thousand, I'm sorry, twenty five

594
00:32:07,760 --> 00:32:12,560
Speaker 2: thousand megawatts by twenty forty five. These are going to

595
00:32:12,640 --> 00:32:16,240
Speaker 2: be floating because of Pacific is so deep and cal

596
00:32:16,320 --> 00:32:19,440
Speaker 2: Berkeley they did a study and they said that offshore

597
00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:23,840
Speaker 2: wind by twenty to fifty could potentially supply between ten

598
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:27,200
Speaker 2: and twenty five percent of all US energy, not just

599
00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:28,280
Speaker 2: wind energy.

600
00:32:27,960 --> 00:32:31,600
Speaker 1: And offshore is the smallest one, so it's the smallest segment.

601
00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:35,480
Speaker 1: And the fact that the offshore wind farms are so

602
00:32:35,520 --> 00:32:38,560
Speaker 1: small right now, that's significant growth. And I get the

603
00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:40,480
Speaker 1: impression that one of the reasons they're growing is one

604
00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:43,120
Speaker 1: it's not up on anybody's real estate. It's like way

605
00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:45,520
Speaker 1: out in the ocean, even though you can kind of

606
00:32:45,520 --> 00:32:48,640
Speaker 1: see them. But secondly, fifty percent of Americans live within

607
00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:51,920
Speaker 1: fifty miles of a coast, and transmission lines are a

608
00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:56,200
Speaker 1: real thing, a real issue for wind power. So if

609
00:32:56,240 --> 00:32:59,840
Speaker 1: you can get you know, a fifty mile length of

610
00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:05,280
Speaker 1: transmission wire to fifty percent of Americans, that's a pretty

611
00:33:05,280 --> 00:33:06,520
Speaker 1: significant number of people.

612
00:33:07,360 --> 00:33:10,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, I wonder if some of these, you know, like

613
00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:13,800
Speaker 2: the younger generation is generally, I mean, this is a

614
00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:17,240
Speaker 2: broad stroke, but generally a little more into trying to

615
00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:20,600
Speaker 2: go toward renewable energy. So I wonder if they're sort

616
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:23,160
Speaker 2: of you know, if like the rich kids are even

617
00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:26,920
Speaker 2: fighting back against their parents about stuff like this. Like,

618
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:29,120
Speaker 2: I wonder how you know you said it was like

619
00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:33,520
Speaker 2: a pinky nail, right, Dad's complaining he's on the beach,

620
00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:36,720
Speaker 2: and the kids are like, Dad, just hold up your

621
00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:39,840
Speaker 2: pinky nail. Block it out roomor exactly.

622
00:33:40,520 --> 00:33:43,080
Speaker 1: The thing is is, I was very interested to find

623
00:33:43,080 --> 00:33:46,440
Speaker 1: this out. There's a lot of environmentalists who are opposed

624
00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:49,320
Speaker 1: to these wind projects too. They're making strange bedfellows with

625
00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:52,520
Speaker 1: people who don't like renewable at all. They're like, you're

626
00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:55,320
Speaker 1: an environmentalist, how can you be opposed to this. They're like,

627
00:33:55,360 --> 00:33:59,240
Speaker 1: look at those giant turbine. That's just one of them,

628
00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:03,120
Speaker 1: and they're put more and more offshore. They're ruining habitats,

629
00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:06,600
Speaker 1: they're ruining communities, Like, this is not the way to go.

630
00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:09,160
Speaker 1: And they're like, well, what way do you want to go? Hippie, Like,

631
00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:11,640
Speaker 1: what's wrong? Now? We're finally doing the stuff you wanted

632
00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:14,400
Speaker 1: to do. And the thread that seems to be emerging

633
00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:18,520
Speaker 1: among younger environmentalists or among environmentalists in general, is degrowth.

634
00:34:19,120 --> 00:34:21,319
Speaker 1: It's like, no, we don't need to create more and

635
00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:24,600
Speaker 1: more wind farms to meet electrical demand that's going to

636
00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:27,880
Speaker 1: increase over the next two decades. We need to decrease

637
00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:30,799
Speaker 1: the electrical demand, and yeah, we need to supply it

638
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:33,279
Speaker 1: with wind and stuff like that, but we're going in

639
00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:37,120
Speaker 1: the wrong direction here. We're billing, billing to meet growth, growth, growth.

640
00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:39,680
Speaker 1: They're like, we need to stop growing. So that's actually

641
00:34:39,680 --> 00:34:42,080
Speaker 1: made them opposed to a lot of these projects, especially

642
00:34:42,120 --> 00:34:42,840
Speaker 1: the biggest ones.

643
00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:45,520
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, I think those people look out and

644
00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:48,040
Speaker 2: see a big wind farm and it doesn't look any

645
00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:50,319
Speaker 2: different to them than a nuclear power plant or a

646
00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:54,880
Speaker 2: huge coal plant. All they see is some giant monstrosity

647
00:34:54,920 --> 00:34:56,080
Speaker 2: of capitalism at work.

648
00:34:56,160 --> 00:34:57,520
Speaker 1: That's exactly right.

649
00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:00,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, then you know there's a point, so.

650
00:35:00,280 --> 00:35:01,879
Speaker 1: I say we take a break and we'll jump back

651
00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:04,160
Speaker 1: into the more of the nuts and bolts of this,

652
00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:29,960
Speaker 1: all right, okay, Chuck. In addition to a lot of

653
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:32,879
Speaker 1: the pushback that we just covered for a while, there's

654
00:35:33,480 --> 00:35:37,200
Speaker 1: a lot of practical issues and challenges to making wind.

655
00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:40,040
Speaker 1: What was it like, up to twenty five percent of

656
00:35:40,360 --> 00:35:44,799
Speaker 1: US demand by twenty fifty. I think that's crazy. One

657
00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:45,879
Speaker 1: of them is transmission.

658
00:35:45,920 --> 00:35:47,600
Speaker 2: Like I said, you had, the wind is out in

659
00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:48,920
Speaker 2: the middle of nowhere. That's the problem.

660
00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:52,239
Speaker 1: That's exactly right. Yeah, the places where it blows the

661
00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:55,640
Speaker 1: most there are the least number of people, and that

662
00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:57,719
Speaker 1: means you have to build an infrastructure to get it

663
00:35:57,760 --> 00:36:01,279
Speaker 1: from those less populated areas of the populated areas that

664
00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:04,279
Speaker 1: want to use it. That's a big one. And apparently

665
00:36:04,440 --> 00:36:08,920
Speaker 1: there was a Princeton study that found that transmission infrastructure

666
00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:12,040
Speaker 1: is growing at just like one percent a year, and

667
00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:16,400
Speaker 1: that if we keep that pace up. The reduction and

668
00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:20,920
Speaker 1: fossil fuel emissions that the Inflation Reduction Act envisioned with

669
00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:23,680
Speaker 1: a lot of it's green stuff. That was associated with it,

670
00:36:23,840 --> 00:36:26,960
Speaker 1: we'll lose eighty percent of that. Yeah, that reduction, so

671
00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:30,240
Speaker 1: we need to definitely expand transmission lines. It's a big,

672
00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:31,040
Speaker 1: big step.

673
00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:34,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure, getting the power there is a big deal.

674
00:36:34,560 --> 00:36:38,080
Speaker 2: One idea that you know has a lot of promise,

675
00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:40,560
Speaker 2: but you know, it all has its downsides of course,

676
00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:45,280
Speaker 2: like there is no like perfect system is storing the energy.

677
00:36:45,440 --> 00:36:49,359
Speaker 2: So there's a lot of work being done toward you know,

678
00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:53,439
Speaker 2: storage capacity because you know, right now, if the sun

679
00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:56,360
Speaker 2: isn't shining, if it's super cloudy a lot, if the

680
00:36:56,360 --> 00:36:58,560
Speaker 2: wind isn't blowing very much, then solar and wind are

681
00:36:58,600 --> 00:37:00,960
Speaker 2: going to take a hit. And then that means that

682
00:37:01,000 --> 00:37:03,279
Speaker 2: the fossil fuel plants just sort of make up for that.

683
00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:06,359
Speaker 2: But if you know, if we're leaning more and more

684
00:37:06,760 --> 00:37:09,960
Speaker 2: on solar and wind and other renewables, we're gonna have

685
00:37:10,080 --> 00:37:11,920
Speaker 2: to figure out a way to store that stuff.

686
00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:16,279
Speaker 1: Yeah. So so just real quick for people who are

687
00:37:16,360 --> 00:37:18,160
Speaker 1: in the United States or who are in the United

688
00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:21,920
Speaker 1: States and don't pay attention to congressional packages, The Inflation

689
00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:25,680
Speaker 1: Reduction Act was a bill, was a law that was

690
00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:28,680
Speaker 1: passed in twenty twenty two that had it was just

691
00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:32,240
Speaker 1: this huge, huge, spending package. But one of the things

692
00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:35,520
Speaker 1: that it really focused on was the US infrastructure, which

693
00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:38,960
Speaker 1: needs updating big time. But it also looked forward down

694
00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:41,360
Speaker 1: the future and was like, how can we invest in

695
00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:45,200
Speaker 1: energy and renewables And basically it said the government's even

696
00:37:45,239 --> 00:37:49,440
Speaker 1: more open for business for renewable investment than before and

697
00:37:49,480 --> 00:37:52,720
Speaker 1: as a results, already had huge impacts. That was passed

698
00:37:52,719 --> 00:37:57,040
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty two. In twenty twenty three, the investment

699
00:37:57,200 --> 00:38:01,840
Speaker 1: in renewables storage so basically giant batteries that can store

700
00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:05,759
Speaker 1: solar and wind power for use later, has increased by

701
00:38:05,760 --> 00:38:09,560
Speaker 1: three hundred percent. They predicted that in twenty forty there

702
00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:14,640
Speaker 1: was going to be fifty gigawatts of storage capacity, and

703
00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:16,880
Speaker 1: now they're up to they're predicting it'll be more like

704
00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:20,319
Speaker 1: two hundred gigawatts of storage capacity by twenty forty, just

705
00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:22,160
Speaker 1: because of the Inflation Reduction Act.

706
00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:26,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, but again, you know these batteries are you know,

707
00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:31,319
Speaker 2: not environmentally friendly to create batteries like that. I don't

708
00:38:31,320 --> 00:38:34,640
Speaker 2: even think we mentioned really the rare earth metals and

709
00:38:34,680 --> 00:38:37,120
Speaker 2: things that are used for these, for the magnets, for

710
00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:41,760
Speaker 2: the turbines, like that stuff isn't great either. So like

711
00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:43,719
Speaker 2: like we said there is no perfect system. I think

712
00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:46,880
Speaker 2: early on the sort of pie in the sky stuff

713
00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:49,719
Speaker 2: with renewables was just like use wind in u sun,

714
00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:53,360
Speaker 2: which is great, but you can't just talk about the

715
00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:56,000
Speaker 2: blue sky stuff without talking about the downsides.

716
00:38:56,280 --> 00:38:58,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, and we need to listen to the downsides too,

717
00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:00,960
Speaker 1: and then go back, say the drawing board, and not

718
00:39:01,000 --> 00:39:03,120
Speaker 1: be like, Nope, this is the way we're doing it totally.

719
00:39:03,239 --> 00:39:05,640
Speaker 1: We need to say okay, great, like we're all we're

720
00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:07,759
Speaker 1: all on board with moving forward, with us like, how

721
00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:10,160
Speaker 1: can we figure out enough of us are on board

722
00:39:10,200 --> 00:39:12,080
Speaker 1: with moving forward? How can we figure out how to

723
00:39:12,160 --> 00:39:15,200
Speaker 1: do it so that it impacts the fewest people possible

724
00:39:15,239 --> 00:39:18,400
Speaker 1: in the least amount possible. And that's I mean, we're smart,

725
00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:21,840
Speaker 1: like humans are fairly smart animals, and we can figure

726
00:39:21,840 --> 00:39:23,759
Speaker 1: that kind of stuff out. We just have to go

727
00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:26,040
Speaker 1: out of our way to take that into account. I

728
00:39:26,080 --> 00:39:27,400
Speaker 1: feel like that's going to happen.

729
00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:34,120
Speaker 2: I think so too, I say, with trepidation. Right, So

730
00:39:34,200 --> 00:39:37,200
Speaker 2: we talked about where we promised talk about what's going

731
00:39:37,239 --> 00:39:40,600
Speaker 2: on around the world, and we mentioned Denmark of course,

732
00:39:41,160 --> 00:39:44,359
Speaker 2: because just like those windmills back in the day, they

733
00:39:44,360 --> 00:39:47,720
Speaker 2: were leader then and they're the leader. Now they create

734
00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:52,240
Speaker 2: fifty four zo point three percent of their power supply

735
00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:54,920
Speaker 2: from when in Denmark as of a couple of years

736
00:39:54,960 --> 00:39:58,960
Speaker 2: ago in twenty twenty two. Other European countries Spain, Germany,

737
00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:02,960
Speaker 2: Portugal and then the UK they're over twenty percent. So

738
00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:06,799
Speaker 2: they're doing pretty good if you're talking and that's percentage wise.

739
00:40:06,840 --> 00:40:09,759
Speaker 2: If you're talking just total wind generation. The US is

740
00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:13,600
Speaker 2: number two with four hundred and thirty watt tarawatt hours

741
00:40:14,040 --> 00:40:18,239
Speaker 2: annually right now, but you mentioned China. We're at four

742
00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:21,280
Speaker 2: thirty four in second place. China is generating seven hundred

743
00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:25,640
Speaker 2: and sixty three tarawatt hours per year and like running

744
00:40:25,640 --> 00:40:26,239
Speaker 2: away with it.

745
00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:30,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, And actually the world is extraordinarily fortunate that China

746
00:40:30,440 --> 00:40:32,480
Speaker 1: has decided to do that rather than just rely on

747
00:40:32,520 --> 00:40:37,680
Speaker 1: fossil fuels, because the pollution that would be even worse

748
00:40:37,719 --> 00:40:39,839
Speaker 1: than it is now if they were used if they

749
00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:42,600
Speaker 1: use fossil instead of like wind and solar as they're

750
00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:46,120
Speaker 1: planning on doing, it would just be the impact would

751
00:40:46,160 --> 00:40:47,800
Speaker 1: be nuts essentially.

752
00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:50,920
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, I think their goal in China is

753
00:40:51,239 --> 00:40:55,920
Speaker 2: full carbon neutrality by twenty sixty and wind is a

754
00:40:56,200 --> 00:40:57,440
Speaker 2: very very big part of that.

755
00:40:58,120 --> 00:41:00,839
Speaker 1: Also, we should point out China is not doing that

756
00:41:01,000 --> 00:41:05,360
Speaker 1: because of their magnanimous benevolence towards humanity and the planet.

757
00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:08,520
Speaker 1: They're doing it because there's they recognize that there's a

758
00:41:08,680 --> 00:41:13,000
Speaker 1: lot of money coming down the pike for for whoever

759
00:41:13,080 --> 00:41:16,960
Speaker 1: is prepared for this kind of revolution, and it's actually

760
00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:19,759
Speaker 1: happening right now. That figure from how much just the

761
00:41:19,920 --> 00:41:23,239
Speaker 1: US alone improved as far as wind generation goes from

762
00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:26,239
Speaker 1: the nineties is just astounding. Like I knew it was

763
00:41:26,280 --> 00:41:28,880
Speaker 1: going on in the background, I had no idea that

764
00:41:28,920 --> 00:41:32,240
Speaker 1: we were this far along already, which I found very heartening.

765
00:41:32,560 --> 00:41:35,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, same. So we talked a lot about the

766
00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:39,960
Speaker 2: downsides here and there. We haven't talked about animals yet. Obviously,

767
00:41:40,360 --> 00:41:45,760
Speaker 2: anytime you're screwing up a habitat for animals in nature,

768
00:41:45,880 --> 00:41:48,120
Speaker 2: that's going to have a real bad effect. You know,

769
00:41:48,160 --> 00:41:50,520
Speaker 2: there's no way around it. They're gonna I mean, just

770
00:41:50,600 --> 00:41:53,719
Speaker 2: those spinning blades are gonna kill birds and bats and

771
00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:57,280
Speaker 2: things that fly into them. But the wind pressure around

772
00:41:57,280 --> 00:42:02,520
Speaker 2: these farms can affect the habitats. The terrestrial animals are affected.

773
00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:05,160
Speaker 2: I think they did a study in Europe about their

774
00:42:05,280 --> 00:42:08,640
Speaker 2: row deer and the European hair that are like they're

775
00:42:08,680 --> 00:42:13,160
Speaker 2: just not here anymore because of these wind farms in Norway.

776
00:42:13,280 --> 00:42:16,560
Speaker 2: You know, they're obviously got a lot of wind going there,

777
00:42:16,560 --> 00:42:22,520
Speaker 2: but they're they're shutting things down because reindeer. It's affecting reindeer,

778
00:42:22,520 --> 00:42:24,280
Speaker 2: which is, you know, a very big deal in Norway

779
00:42:24,719 --> 00:42:28,160
Speaker 2: and the indigenous Sami people who heard the reindeer. So

780
00:42:28,640 --> 00:42:31,279
Speaker 2: they can't mess with the indigenous cultures there. So they're

781
00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:33,560
Speaker 2: shutting some of those down right.

782
00:42:33,880 --> 00:42:37,359
Speaker 1: They're they're they're it's impacting local communities, no matter how

783
00:42:37,480 --> 00:42:40,600
Speaker 1: small the community that's they're they're responding to it. That's

784
00:42:40,600 --> 00:42:43,879
Speaker 1: a big that's a big deal. There's also, i think

785
00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:47,520
Speaker 1: you said earlier, a lot of impact with ocean based

786
00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:52,840
Speaker 1: wind because these things are huge. They're like giant oil dereks,

787
00:42:53,200 --> 00:42:55,200
Speaker 1: but there's a bunch of them and they have to

788
00:42:55,200 --> 00:42:57,759
Speaker 1: be like mounted to the continental shels so they don't

789
00:42:57,760 --> 00:43:01,359
Speaker 1: blow over. So it's a huge, massive project. And the

790
00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:05,520
Speaker 1: sound that it generates can rupture whales, ear drums, it

791
00:43:05,560 --> 00:43:08,480
Speaker 1: can completely disturb breeding grounds, it can do a lot

792
00:43:08,520 --> 00:43:11,200
Speaker 1: of stuff. But again it's been pointed out like if

793
00:43:11,200 --> 00:43:13,399
Speaker 1: you do this right and you do the right kind

794
00:43:13,400 --> 00:43:15,239
Speaker 1: of studies. If you look around and say who is

795
00:43:15,239 --> 00:43:18,240
Speaker 1: this going to impact, and then how can we mitigate

796
00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:21,520
Speaker 1: those impacts? There's stuff you can do to make the

797
00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:25,960
Speaker 1: impact that much lesser as low as possible. Like, if

798
00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:29,920
Speaker 1: you're impacting whales, then plan the construction phase of it

799
00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:31,880
Speaker 1: for a time when the whales are off migrating on

800
00:43:31,960 --> 00:43:34,080
Speaker 1: another part of the ocean, so it's not going to

801
00:43:34,080 --> 00:43:36,360
Speaker 1: blow out their ear drums when you pile Drive the

802
00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:40,279
Speaker 1: pylons into the continental shelf, or move it over a

803
00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:42,400
Speaker 1: little bit, keep it out of the whales breeding ground,

804
00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:45,480
Speaker 1: put it somewhere else. Like, there's just little things you

805
00:43:45,520 --> 00:43:49,719
Speaker 1: can do that will decrease that impact tremendously.

806
00:43:50,200 --> 00:43:53,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, for sure. One thing we haven't talked about that.

807
00:43:54,200 --> 00:43:56,200
Speaker 2: I mean, I never really considered this, which is really

808
00:43:57,200 --> 00:44:01,600
Speaker 2: short sighted of me. But these are big, massive machines,

809
00:44:02,160 --> 00:44:05,160
Speaker 2: and when big massive machines reach the end of their life,

810
00:44:05,560 --> 00:44:07,520
Speaker 2: you know, it's not like they'll go forever. These are

811
00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:13,040
Speaker 2: physical materials that wear out, including those huge turbines and blades.

812
00:44:13,600 --> 00:44:18,000
Speaker 2: So when that stuff, you know, the ones that kind

813
00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:20,560
Speaker 2: of came on early in the nineties, in two thousands,

814
00:44:20,600 --> 00:44:22,240
Speaker 2: some of those are nearing the end of their life,

815
00:44:22,520 --> 00:44:24,560
Speaker 2: and all of a sudden, you're stuck with these blades

816
00:44:24,600 --> 00:44:28,120
Speaker 2: that you know, are just gargantuan and they're not made

817
00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:33,120
Speaker 2: of bamboo or banana fiber. You know, they're fiberglass and

818
00:44:33,280 --> 00:44:37,480
Speaker 2: epoxy resin, and they're kind of an environmental nightmare, and

819
00:44:37,520 --> 00:44:39,560
Speaker 2: so like, what do you do with those? You can't

820
00:44:39,600 --> 00:44:42,360
Speaker 2: just fill landfills with these giant beasts. No.

821
00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:46,200
Speaker 1: There's a company in Tennessee called Carbon Rivers that says

822
00:44:46,239 --> 00:44:49,200
Speaker 1: that they recycled about a thousand of the blades in

823
00:44:49,320 --> 00:44:53,799
Speaker 1: twenty twenty three, so I'm guessing is probably significant, but

824
00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:56,480
Speaker 1: still maybe a drop in the bucket. Yeah, But they

825
00:44:56,520 --> 00:45:00,000
Speaker 1: figured out how to extract the carbon fibers from the

826
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:03,240
Speaker 1: POxy resin, and then you can reuse the carbon fibers

827
00:45:03,239 --> 00:45:07,239
Speaker 1: because they're very strong stuff. So that's great, that's good

828
00:45:07,320 --> 00:45:10,399
Speaker 1: to have that online. But the better solution, at least

829
00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:13,640
Speaker 1: in the future, is to start manufacturing the turbine blades

830
00:45:14,080 --> 00:45:16,480
Speaker 1: in ways that they can be much more easily recycled.

831
00:45:16,480 --> 00:45:18,880
Speaker 1: So I think they're using the same material still, they're

832
00:45:18,920 --> 00:45:23,080
Speaker 1: just using processes that can later on down the road

833
00:45:23,440 --> 00:45:26,399
Speaker 1: be reversed more easily, and you can separate the fiberglass

834
00:45:26,400 --> 00:45:29,280
Speaker 1: from the epoxy more easily.

835
00:45:29,400 --> 00:45:32,320
Speaker 2: And like, you know, kind of what you've been saying about,

836
00:45:32,360 --> 00:45:35,160
Speaker 2: like why don't you change the way you're doing things

837
00:45:35,239 --> 00:45:37,840
Speaker 2: as we go instead of being locked in? That is

838
00:45:37,880 --> 00:45:41,759
Speaker 2: happening with those blades. And there's a company in Germany. Oh,

839
00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:46,439
Speaker 2: actually it's Semens, big company. Sure. Is that the same

840
00:45:46,440 --> 00:45:51,120
Speaker 2: company Semens Gamesa as regular Semens Sure? Okay, I just

841
00:45:51,160 --> 00:45:52,719
Speaker 2: never heard the full name. I guess I didn't know

842
00:45:52,760 --> 00:45:57,080
Speaker 2: Semens had a last name. But they're basically saying, well,

843
00:45:57,080 --> 00:45:59,560
Speaker 2: why don't we make a better kind of blade that

844
00:45:59,719 --> 00:46:02,399
Speaker 2: uses a different kind of resin that is much more

845
00:46:02,440 --> 00:46:07,600
Speaker 2: easily separated from that fiberglass. So things like that, like

846
00:46:07,640 --> 00:46:12,000
Speaker 2: you're talking about, like make the parts more easily recyclable

847
00:46:12,120 --> 00:46:15,440
Speaker 2: or reusable. You know, I know they're using them on

848
00:46:15,640 --> 00:46:18,680
Speaker 2: like like playgrounds and stuff, trying to repurpose them. I

849
00:46:18,680 --> 00:46:21,160
Speaker 2: guess it makes it a heck of a slide or

850
00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:24,279
Speaker 2: something like that. But that they're you know, there are

851
00:46:24,320 --> 00:46:27,040
Speaker 2: limits to how much you can I mean, it all helps,

852
00:46:27,040 --> 00:46:29,759
Speaker 2: but how much Because there's a lot of blades out there,

853
00:46:29,760 --> 00:46:31,160
Speaker 2: they're going to be coming offline, you know.

854
00:46:31,200 --> 00:46:33,839
Speaker 1: Right, and they're big also by the way. I think

855
00:46:33,840 --> 00:46:37,359
Speaker 1: I was using carbon fiber and fiberglass interchangeably, and I'm

856
00:46:37,400 --> 00:46:41,720
Speaker 1: not quite sure that's right. So they're fiberglass, right.

857
00:46:41,920 --> 00:46:44,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think so.

858
00:46:44,080 --> 00:46:46,839
Speaker 1: So there's a couple of other things that that are

859
00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:51,000
Speaker 1: drawbacks to turbines that need to be addressed. Once called

860
00:46:51,040 --> 00:46:55,640
Speaker 1: shadow flicker. When the sun is lowish on the horizon

861
00:46:56,160 --> 00:46:59,000
Speaker 1: and it's just kind of beaming through the wind turbine.

862
00:46:59,120 --> 00:47:02,640
Speaker 1: As the turbines bins, it makes a flickering shadow, and

863
00:47:02,680 --> 00:47:05,600
Speaker 1: if you live in range of that shadow, it can

864
00:47:05,719 --> 00:47:07,239
Speaker 1: drive you crazy. As a matter of fact, they did

865
00:47:07,239 --> 00:47:11,040
Speaker 1: a study to make sure that it wasn't rapid enough

866
00:47:11,080 --> 00:47:17,000
Speaker 1: to trigger seizures, and apparently the max is again sixty RPMs,

867
00:47:17,560 --> 00:47:20,360
Speaker 1: so I think it's like one hundred. It takes double

868
00:47:20,400 --> 00:47:24,600
Speaker 1: that to start to trigger photosensitive seizures. They're like, it's

869
00:47:24,600 --> 00:47:27,399
Speaker 1: not going to trigger a seizure, but yes, it's extremely

870
00:47:27,440 --> 00:47:30,880
Speaker 1: annoying when it happens. But they're like, it only happens

871
00:47:30,880 --> 00:47:33,160
Speaker 1: certain times of the year for a couple of hours

872
00:47:33,280 --> 00:47:35,920
Speaker 1: out of a day. Can you just get used to it?

873
00:47:35,960 --> 00:47:38,120
Speaker 1: And some people are like no, and then other people

874
00:47:38,120 --> 00:47:40,440
Speaker 1: are like, yeah, it's not They did another study of

875
00:47:40,480 --> 00:47:43,799
Speaker 1: people who lived in proximity of wind turbines are like,

876
00:47:43,800 --> 00:47:46,799
Speaker 1: I don't even really notice anymore. And then noise too,

877
00:47:47,400 --> 00:47:50,440
Speaker 1: Like it makes a noise. But again, the fewer parts

878
00:47:50,480 --> 00:47:55,080
Speaker 1: that you have, the less noise is gonna make. Like

879
00:47:55,120 --> 00:47:57,359
Speaker 1: if you don't have a gearbox, those gears aren't there

880
00:47:57,360 --> 00:47:58,920
Speaker 1: to make a bunch of noise. If you do have

881
00:47:58,960 --> 00:48:02,560
Speaker 1: a gearbox to soundproof, you're what'd you call that that

882
00:48:02,680 --> 00:48:06,320
Speaker 1: package that the airplane has to uh nestle a nestle.

883
00:48:07,560 --> 00:48:11,080
Speaker 1: And then also they're making I think these giant those

884
00:48:11,120 --> 00:48:13,840
Speaker 1: giant turbines are also going to be quieter. They're like

885
00:48:13,880 --> 00:48:17,399
Speaker 1: eighteen percent quieter or something like that. So, yeah, there's

886
00:48:17,440 --> 00:48:19,319
Speaker 1: a lot of stuff that needs to be addressed, but

887
00:48:19,640 --> 00:48:23,040
Speaker 1: I feel like I just think it's going to get addressed.

888
00:48:23,080 --> 00:48:23,960
Speaker 1: If I can share my.

889
00:48:24,160 --> 00:48:27,040
Speaker 2: Opinion, Yeah, it's a sunny opinion.

890
00:48:27,840 --> 00:48:28,680
Speaker 1: Are you got anything else?

891
00:48:28,960 --> 00:48:29,880
Speaker 2: I got nothing else.

892
00:48:30,200 --> 00:48:32,680
Speaker 1: All Right, Well, that's it for wind turbines for now.

893
00:48:32,800 --> 00:48:36,080
Speaker 1: We'll have to revisit it in your thirty five of

894
00:48:36,120 --> 00:48:38,759
Speaker 1: stuff you should know. Uh And since I said that,

895
00:48:38,840 --> 00:48:40,880
Speaker 1: it's time for listener mane.

896
00:48:42,600 --> 00:48:47,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm gonna call this. Marcie is definitely Asian. We

897
00:48:47,320 --> 00:48:49,760
Speaker 2: heard from quite a few Asian listeners for our Peanuts

898
00:48:49,760 --> 00:48:53,400
Speaker 2: episode who were very kind, but they were kind of like, guys,

899
00:48:54,000 --> 00:48:56,359
Speaker 2: you seemed a little hesitant to kind of to kind

900
00:48:56,400 --> 00:49:00,920
Speaker 2: of go there, but go there because Marc was clearly

901
00:49:00,960 --> 00:49:04,600
Speaker 2: Asian to every kid that was Asian and reading Peanuts.

902
00:49:05,480 --> 00:49:10,560
Speaker 2: And this one is from Hugh Nuian. So, hey, guys,

903
00:49:10,640 --> 00:49:13,520
Speaker 2: I'm a forty three year old Vietnamese American who grew

904
00:49:13,600 --> 00:49:16,160
Speaker 2: up reading and watching Peanuts my friend's family, and I

905
00:49:16,200 --> 00:49:20,000
Speaker 2: assumed without question that Charles Schultz intended Marshy to be

906
00:49:20,040 --> 00:49:22,960
Speaker 2: Asian American by drawing and writing her with so many

907
00:49:22,960 --> 00:49:29,000
Speaker 2: shortcuts to signal Asian American identity. First, her haircut. Marshy's

908
00:49:29,000 --> 00:49:32,600
Speaker 2: hair's short black bob with bangs. Many Asian American girls

909
00:49:32,600 --> 00:49:36,080
Speaker 2: had this bus free homemade haircut exacted upon them by

910
00:49:36,080 --> 00:49:40,319
Speaker 2: their frugal mothers. Number two, her glasses. Asians and Americans

911
00:49:40,640 --> 00:49:43,760
Speaker 2: and Asian Americans do have a higher rate of myopia

912
00:49:43,800 --> 00:49:46,400
Speaker 2: and developed countries, so I wear is just more common

913
00:49:46,400 --> 00:49:50,640
Speaker 2: with us. She's awkward because she is so busy. I

914
00:49:50,719 --> 00:49:53,160
Speaker 2: quote an article by Kevin Wong which resonates with me

915
00:49:54,480 --> 00:49:57,920
Speaker 2: and so many children raised by overly protective immigrant parents

916
00:49:58,280 --> 00:50:01,120
Speaker 2: who carried the trauma of war and or forced immigration.

917
00:50:01,800 --> 00:50:03,840
Speaker 2: Marci couldn't come out to play because she had to

918
00:50:03,880 --> 00:50:06,600
Speaker 2: practice her organ she had to study, she had to read.

919
00:50:07,040 --> 00:50:11,719
Speaker 2: This was our experience number four. She is mothered by everyone.

920
00:50:12,200 --> 00:50:15,440
Speaker 2: Asian language, food, religion, and culture in general were and

921
00:50:15,960 --> 00:50:18,719
Speaker 2: might still be considered foreign and weird in many parts

922
00:50:18,719 --> 00:50:21,600
Speaker 2: of the US. And I just assume Marcy was depicted

923
00:50:21,840 --> 00:50:24,040
Speaker 2: as a strange little girl, because that's how the Peanuts

924
00:50:24,080 --> 00:50:28,799
Speaker 2: Gang and the rest of America would perceive an unathletic,

925
00:50:28,800 --> 00:50:32,960
Speaker 2: bookish Asian child. And then finally she calls Peppermint Patty

926
00:50:33,000 --> 00:50:36,279
Speaker 2: sir because English is her second language. Guys, In many

927
00:50:36,320 --> 00:50:39,960
Speaker 2: East and Southeast Asian languages, children address adults and people

928
00:50:39,960 --> 00:50:43,759
Speaker 2: in positions of power and respect with courtesy titles that

929
00:50:43,920 --> 00:50:48,560
Speaker 2: have no gender. So that's why Peprimitt Patty was called sir.

930
00:50:49,239 --> 00:50:51,000
Speaker 1: Wowey, who is this?

931
00:50:51,000 --> 00:50:55,239
Speaker 2: This is from an I got a pronunciation guide. It's

932
00:50:55,239 --> 00:50:59,480
Speaker 2: spelled hi eu pronounced hugh and n g u y

933
00:50:59,520 --> 00:51:03,640
Speaker 2: e n and Hugh said, I pronounced that hugh ewan.

934
00:51:03,880 --> 00:51:07,759
Speaker 2: But different people even pronounced my last name differently within

935
00:51:07,800 --> 00:51:08,480
Speaker 2: my own country.

936
00:51:08,920 --> 00:51:12,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, I've always seen it pronounces or heard it pronounces when.

937
00:51:12,920 --> 00:51:16,200
Speaker 2: Yeah. So that was a great email, and we appreciate

938
00:51:16,239 --> 00:51:19,239
Speaker 2: all our Asian and Asian American listeners who wrote in

939
00:51:19,280 --> 00:51:22,719
Speaker 2: about that saying, guys, we thought she was Asian, so

940
00:51:22,880 --> 00:51:24,080
Speaker 2: it's okay to say that.

941
00:51:24,080 --> 00:51:26,600
Speaker 1: That's awesome. Thanks for sharing. If you want to get

942
00:51:26,600 --> 00:51:29,600
Speaker 1: in touch with us, like Hugh did and everybody else,

943
00:51:30,280 --> 00:51:32,080
Speaker 1: you can send us an email, send it off to

944
00:51:32,120 --> 00:51:38,960
Speaker 1: stuff Podcasts at iHeartRadio dot com. Stuff you Should Know

945
00:51:39,040 --> 00:51:40,480
Speaker 1: is a production of iHeartRadio.

946
00:51:40,960 --> 00:51:44,160
Speaker 2: For more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app,

947
00:51:44,360 --> 00:51:47,280
Speaker 2: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.