Speaker 1: Of the Law and Order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable.
Speaker 2: We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
Speaker 2: vicious felonies. These episodes are based on.
Speaker 3: These are our stories, done done.
Speaker 2: Hello, Hello, Hello, It's twenty twenty two and this is
Speaker 2: that's messed up.
Speaker 1: I am Liza Traeger. Hello. Hi, I am Kara Klank. Hello.
Speaker 4: And you guys know what this is or maybe your
Speaker 4: New Year's resolution was to get into this podcast and
Speaker 4: you don't know what it is. But what it is
Speaker 4: is we take an episode of Sview, we recap it,
Speaker 4: then we talk about the true crime it was based on,
Speaker 4: and then we interview usually an actor from the show.
Speaker 4: And today's episode is a hot one to kick off
Speaker 4: twenty twenty two. I'm so glad it's a new year.
Speaker 1: It is a new year.
Speaker 2: Obviously, we took a holiday break like a lot of
Speaker 2: like you should, and hopefully you're able to as well.
Speaker 2: So we did record this before our holiday breaks, so
Speaker 2: you won't know what we did until next week, but
Speaker 2: we're gonna try to.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're we're in the time machine again. Time machine. Yes,
Speaker 1: we wait.
Speaker 4: We do want to talk about New Year's because we
Speaker 4: will have all just done New Years.
Speaker 1: We may be spending New Years together. We're not sure.
Speaker 1: And I I don't know.
Speaker 4: New Year's is like, now that I have kids, I'm like,
Speaker 4: what can I even do on New Year's I'm just
Speaker 4: excited that I'm going to a place where I can
Speaker 4: put my children to bed and drink a little bit.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but what's weird about your sleepovers? Why don't you
Speaker 2: guys actually do a real sleepover? You guys do fake sleepovers?
Speaker 4: Well, because where would we sleep you say us from downstairs?
Speaker 1: Maybe we will do that for New Years.
Speaker 2: Like, I just don't understand why. It's like you put
Speaker 2: them to bed and then still at ten you sneak.
Speaker 4: Them out in the middle of the night, Like well,
Speaker 4: because first of all, one of them goes to sleep
Speaker 4: in our friend's bedroom, so Michael and like our friends
Speaker 4: would have to sleep with my six month old in
Speaker 4: their room. So I guess I could put Yeah, I
Speaker 4: guess I could reconfigure and we could try to sleep over.
Speaker 4: But normally what we do is we wake them up
Speaker 4: at like eleven or twelve and just like whisk them
Speaker 4: away into the car and bring them home and they
Speaker 4: go right back to sleep, so it's not a big deal.
Speaker 4: But I'll have to ask our friends if they feel
Speaker 4: like waking up to two extra children and two extra adults.
Speaker 1: We'll see.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I am still waiting for plans.
Speaker 1: I really I have a dress.
Speaker 2: I would love to go out, and I'm trying to
Speaker 2: manifest something fun, but I don't think so. And then
Speaker 2: someone suggests that I should just straight up post on
Speaker 2: Instagram like where are the parties, bitch? But that seems
Speaker 2: like a little much. I don't know.
Speaker 1: Maybe I'll just do whippets alone. If I hear of anything,
Speaker 1: I'll let you know.
Speaker 4: I just think La it's like a town where nobody's
Speaker 4: really from here, so so many people go away for
Speaker 4: the holidays and then their New Year's is not really here.
Speaker 1: But that said, I've actually had.
Speaker 4: New Year's parties here when I was living in West Hollywood,
Speaker 4: and like, without children, I've had New year.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's another thing. Like West Hollywood.
Speaker 2: I would definitely go, maybe do some spots, hang out,
Speaker 2: but I don't want to then uber back or try
Speaker 2: to a hotel on New Year's like so many drunk drivers,
Speaker 2: Like I don't really know.
Speaker 1: Uber's gonna be a billion dollars.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I don't know. So I grew up with
Speaker 2: New Year's being a family holiday. We have a New
Speaker 2: Year's tree, we do gifts, and then what's cool is
Speaker 2: my sister would do everything with us, and then she
Speaker 2: would go out at like two in the morning. That's
Speaker 2: another thing. LA fucking sucks and everything closes at one
Speaker 2: in the morning. So if you grow up in a
Speaker 2: real city, you can go out till four or five
Speaker 2: in the morning, and that's fun. So my sister would
Speaker 2: do gifts and dinner and everything with the family, and
Speaker 2: then her and her slept friends they would go out
Speaker 2: at like two in the morning, and it was cool.
Speaker 4: I it's not a family holiday for me, but I did.
Speaker 4: When I was a sophomore in high school. I threw
Speaker 4: like an epic party when my parents were out of
Speaker 4: the country. They had me, say with their best friend
Speaker 4: and I was I was, you know, fifteen, But my
Speaker 4: friends drove so I was like, okay, I'm going to
Speaker 4: like a little New Year's party with four friends.
Speaker 1: And we just had them drive me back to my house.
Speaker 4: Opened my house up, like people banging upstairs, like people
Speaker 4: taking showers, like like walking around naked, like full blowout
Speaker 4: party that I never got in trouble for. I then
Speaker 4: tried to have a party my junior year and my
Speaker 4: freshman year of college at my at my parents' house,
Speaker 4: and both times I got busted, but the sophomore year
Speaker 4: party never got busted.
Speaker 1: I confessed it to my parents later. Wait, how many
Speaker 1: people were there?
Speaker 4: Maybe like seventy It was like a lot of my
Speaker 4: class from my I was a sophomore, and then probably
Speaker 4: people some people from the grade above and stuff too.
Speaker 1: But I was pretty proud of myself. It was a
Speaker 1: big party. And did people bring booze?
Speaker 4: Yeah, and my parents, like people stole drip like booze
Speaker 4: from my parents. But my parents like aren't big alcohol people.
Speaker 4: They just have a lot of alcohol, like they always
Speaker 4: were gifted like vodka and stuff.
Speaker 1: They never drink vodka, you know.
Speaker 4: So, like I think I've talked about it on this
Speaker 4: podcast before, my parents got three bottles of Absolute ones
Speaker 4: and just gave them to my sister because we collected
Speaker 4: Absolute vodka ads and so they were just sitting on
Speaker 4: my sister's desk for all of high school and we
Speaker 4: would just slowly drain them and then.
Speaker 1: Refill them with water.
Speaker 4: So yeah, like and then later they'd be like, hey,
Speaker 4: could you bring that vodka down for the party.
Speaker 1: We'd be like that shit is long gone. Mom, Sorry you're.
Speaker 4: Delusional, but anyway, that's a fun New Year's memory. But
Speaker 4: I have done so many crazy New Years. I've done
Speaker 4: New Year's in like Boston. I've worked on New Year's.
Speaker 4: I've waitress on New Years. I think the best.
Speaker 2: I like working on New Year's that's the best. I
Speaker 2: really love having a weekend at a club. You are
Speaker 2: drink it, you have fun, and then you go out
Speaker 2: after and it's kind of more low pressure. I love
Speaker 2: having an excuse. I love working on a holiday. That's
Speaker 2: oh isom and I had a big New Year's party.
Speaker 4: My aunt and uncle used to have a loft and
Speaker 4: soho and they I've stayed in it over New Year's,
Speaker 4: like maybe twenty sixteen. No, it was like twenty twelve
Speaker 4: or thirteen because Jared and I were like together.
Speaker 1: And it was all comedy people. It was really fun.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I remember like my favorite, Like I remember senior
Speaker 2: year of high school. I think I did, like I
Speaker 2: went to a friend's house. That was the first time
Speaker 2: I did something with other people and your parents were
Speaker 2: probably like, No, it's fine though, but I was with
Speaker 2: other Russians, so maybe that kept them happy. Oh, last
Speaker 2: year it was just me and my parents and none
Speaker 2: of us were drinking.
Speaker 4: Well, last year for New Year's you were out of
Speaker 4: town and our other friends came over and lit a
Speaker 4: fire pit on my fake grass and burned a huge
Speaker 4: hole in it. So I'm just happy that we're not
Speaker 4: going to be at my house this year, so I
Speaker 4: don't have to replace any burnt grass.
Speaker 1: That burnt grass has been You've been talking about it.
Speaker 4: Oh, yeah, well fixed now it's fixed now. It just
Speaker 4: was a nightmare to get it fixed. But I am
Speaker 4: I actually love the no pressure New Year's. I love
Speaker 4: the just do something with a few friends and not
Speaker 4: have to worry about traveling and getting an uber.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I don't want to be in a night club, I think.
Speaker 2: No, if I was rich, I think I would enjoy
Speaker 2: I would be on an all inclusive resort, I think,
Speaker 2: or like a tropical vacation airbnb with like I would
Speaker 2: love ten friends are under in a house.
Speaker 4: Or I think if you are going to do a
Speaker 4: West Hollywood, LA thing, you like hire a car for
Speaker 4: the night, like the car is your car, and it's like,
Speaker 4: that's taking you around for the night.
Speaker 1: A friend of mine did that, Rich friends of mine
Speaker 1: did that.
Speaker 4: I know that's expensive, but I'm saying that's where we're
Speaker 4: talking aspirational.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like, no, I think tropical is better than renting
Speaker 2: a car to go to West Hollywood.
Speaker 1: I think, okay, of.
Speaker 4: Course, But I'm saying, if you wanted to stay around
Speaker 4: town and have fun, I think having someone take you around,
Speaker 4: of course better than tropical. Better than tropical is buying
Speaker 4: your own island better than buying you. I mean, like
Speaker 4: we can go on and on about what's better.
Speaker 2: You just followed up my Aruba with you can also
Speaker 2: get a car.
Speaker 1: I just don't know.
Speaker 4: Like I like to be around a lot of people,
Speaker 4: I know, so I don't know that a tropical vacation
Speaker 4: where I'm just with like maybe two people would be
Speaker 4: as fun for me.
Speaker 2: No, I would love to be on an all inclusive
Speaker 2: resort for a New Year one year. I think I
Speaker 2: would definitely pretty much I would enjoy that. I would
Speaker 2: have you done all inclusive before. I did it once
Speaker 2: with my family when I was in high school the
Speaker 2: Dominican Republic, and then once with my friend Alex Crawley
Speaker 2: a few years ago in Mexico. I like being with
Speaker 2: people in a city and being not with other Americans
Speaker 2: in a resort. But I would totally do resorts again,
Speaker 2: for sure. Absolutely, but we stayed at the resort for
Speaker 2: like a full week. I would probably do through three
Speaker 2: four days at a resort and then three four days
Speaker 2: and like Tuloom or like in a different place. We
Speaker 2: went to Tuloom for just a day trip. But yeah,
Speaker 2: I think it's nice that I like when everything's included.
Speaker 2: I like just drinking and eating and being at the
Speaker 2: pool and then you get to know everyone and you know,
Speaker 2: the guys are like.
Speaker 1: Tequila and you're like, yeah, you know, I like that. Yeah. No,
Speaker 1: I've never done all inclusive.
Speaker 4: I only asked because my sister did all inclusive in
Speaker 4: Mexico at this place where her boyfriend, and she said
Speaker 4: that it was like impossible to get drunk, like the
Speaker 4: drinks were too watered down. But that was one place
Speaker 4: I was just wondering if you had a similar experience.
Speaker 4: Oh no, but I was just taking shots of tequila, so.
Speaker 1: You can't those down. You're not really fucking around with that.
Speaker 2: But I love a breakfast but I like, oh, say,
Speaker 2: like a nap, I had a hot tub or a butt.
Speaker 2: We had like tubs on our balconies, so like that's fun.
Speaker 4: I love resort breakfast where it's just like ninety stations
Speaker 4: of all different stuff to eat for breakfast.
Speaker 1: I love that shit.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's just different types of vacations. I would never
Speaker 2: say I would rather do a resort than like be
Speaker 2: in a cool place with people that actually live there
Speaker 2: and go to museums and see stuff. It's just it's
Speaker 2: different trips, and I think to unwind a resort's nice.
Speaker 4: Yeah, baby, should we unwind into today's episode.
Speaker 1: We've got a good one for you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, January, you're cold, are you working on your goals?
Speaker 1: Have you already fail? Whatever? We have an episode.
Speaker 2: We're consistent, honey, whether you're on top of your shit
Speaker 2: or not.
Speaker 4: All right, guys, I'm excited about this because I totally
Speaker 4: knew this episode when I watched it, But this was
Speaker 4: like a little bit for me like what Scavenger was
Speaker 4: for you, Like you knew you'd seen it, but I
Speaker 4: didn't really remember a lot about this one, so it
Speaker 4: was kind of like seeing it new again. Even though well, I'm.
Speaker 2: Gonna I'm gonna let the listeners into the third wall
Speaker 2: or whatever. But you know, we do get asked how
Speaker 2: we picked the episodes, and we Hannah suggested this one
Speaker 2: and Kara was fighting.
Speaker 1: You did not want to do it.
Speaker 2: You were so mad, and then after you watched it,
Speaker 2: you were like, oh my god, what an incredible episode.
Speaker 1: I go, yeah, SVU is incredible.
Speaker 4: I think I thought it was a different one. I
Speaker 4: think I thought it was the one with Time saws
Speaker 4: more that's based on the Eton Pats case.
Speaker 1: Which we will do.
Speaker 4: But I think I was like, let's wait on that
Speaker 4: one whatever, and this one is great.
Speaker 1: So it is.
Speaker 2: But I just thought the listeners would like, yeah, that
Speaker 2: this was an argument.
Speaker 4: Shattering the fourth wall and Lisa letting you know that.
Speaker 4: I was a baby bitch about doing this episode and
Speaker 4: now I'm happy.
Speaker 1: I love it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I hated execution and I just still don't
Speaker 2: like it.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Oh, I thought you warmed up.
Speaker 2: To it, But okay I did because we got to
Speaker 2: talk to Bede Wong.
Speaker 1: That's gonna put favorable.
Speaker 4: So okay, this is episode is called name and it's
Speaker 4: season seven, episode seven seven seven.
Speaker 1: I love that I know something about the numbers.
Speaker 2: Well, seven is universally good luck, Like people love the
Speaker 2: number seven, lucky number seven.
Speaker 4: So we opened this episode on a couple of kids
Speaker 4: that like go up to some guys that are digging
Speaker 4: a huge hole next to their playground, and the guys
Speaker 4: are like, you guys, excited for your new playground and
Speaker 4: the kids are like They do a reverse shot where
Speaker 4: the kids are like yeah, but there's like a perfectly
Speaker 4: good playground right behind them. So I don't really know
Speaker 4: what's going on with the old playground, but it looks
Speaker 4: really good. So the this one kid's like, where's baby
Speaker 4: duckies and one of the guys. Then one of the
Speaker 4: guys interrupts and goes, h, look at this. It's teeth,
Speaker 4: And he like he's got a couple of teeth in
Speaker 4: his hand. I don't know how the fuck he would
Speaker 4: ever notice that he's like digging in a huge pile
Speaker 4: of dirt like teeth look like rocks.
Speaker 1: I don't really know how he figured it out, but
Speaker 1: they should have made it a skull in my opinion.
Speaker 4: So they're like, hold on, guys, stop the work, and
Speaker 4: a third guy pulls out like a full jaw, so
Speaker 4: they tell the kids to scram and the next thing
Speaker 4: we see are people like sifting through the dirt like
Speaker 4: it's your archaeology assembly in fourth grade. Like they're just
Speaker 4: like using those you know, like they're panning for gold.
Speaker 2: My sister did a kid birthday party like that, she
Speaker 2: buried all these dinosaur bones in the yard or the.
Speaker 4: That is the kids freaking cute and the kind of
Speaker 4: thing I would never have the like wherewithal to do.
Speaker 4: But like, wow, my sister, it's not about that she is,
Speaker 4: but she's really good at homemade parties, creative and dedicated
Speaker 4: because I would I could think of that, and then
Speaker 4: I be like I can't figure out how to do it,
Speaker 4: and then I would just give up. But anyway, I'll
Speaker 4: keep going here with this case. So they're all sifting
Speaker 4: through the dirt trying to find more bones. The victim
Speaker 4: is a kid because they still had baby teeth. The
Speaker 4: sand is from a quarry in Rockland County, and the
Speaker 4: CSU finds a lunch box that has Battlestar Galactica on it,
Speaker 4: which means the death probably occurred in the late seventies.
Speaker 1: That show did come back.
Speaker 4: I don't know if you listen ever to Race Chaser
Speaker 4: with Wilhelm and Alaska. But they there was a judge
Speaker 4: on one of the early seasons of Drag Race named
Speaker 4: Alessandra Torra Sani and she was on Battlestar Galactica, and like,
Speaker 4: it's just kind of a funny gag that no one
Speaker 4: knows who the fuck she is, and she got to
Speaker 4: be a judge on Drag Race, and so they'd be like, oh,
Speaker 4: obviously drag expert Alissandra Torra Sani.
Speaker 1: And then they've.
Speaker 4: Actually had her on the podcast like twice and she's
Speaker 4: become like a funny gag on their podcast. But that's
Speaker 4: what I think of when I think of Battlestar Galactica.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 4: Anyway, there's a Twinkie in the box. Apparently we don't
Speaker 4: get to see it, but Finn's like, oh, here's the
Speaker 4: test of the Twinkies last forever, like go ahead, take
Speaker 4: a bite, and Munch is like no thanks, or maybe
Speaker 4: it's the other way around, but one of them does that,
Speaker 4: and then they're debating if it's a homicide and there's
Speaker 4: like a Lady csu tech there and she finds a
Speaker 4: skull and Warner's like, yep, that's a bullet hole. Dunt
Speaker 4: done into the credits, so we know that this kid
Speaker 4: was shot in the back of the head and then
Speaker 4: somehow buried in a quarry. So now they are at
Speaker 4: the quarry at the top of act one, and Melinda
Speaker 4: and co Are all in hard hats. It's just kind
Speaker 4: of fun. I like to see everybody wearing a hard hat.
Speaker 4: Stabler arrives with Munch. I don't think Olivia is in
Speaker 4: this entire episode, right, No, I think this goes this
Speaker 4: baby times, taking a break or having a baby. Who's
Speaker 4: to say? So, Stabler arrives with Munch there with and
Speaker 4: Stabler has his arm in a sling because, as you recall,
Speaker 4: this is the episode right after Raw where he was
Speaker 4: shot in a courtroom blowout with Star and that whole
Speaker 4: thing with Marsha Gay Harden and he got his big
Speaker 4: ass shot and Warner or wait no, actually sorry, it
Speaker 4: was Munch that got his ass shot in that episode.
Speaker 4: Stabler got shot like in the arm. That's why he's
Speaker 4: in a sling. Warner confirms that the bones belonged to
Speaker 4: a boy because they found the pelvis, but there's nothing
Speaker 4: else to go on really, there's no hair, like any
Speaker 4: DNA left, and then they find in the backpack, they
Speaker 4: find all these baseball cards and drawings, et cetera, and
Speaker 4: all of that stuff has been.
Speaker 1: Like perfectly preserved.
Speaker 4: Like they open up an art project that looks like
Speaker 4: this kid could have made it yesterday, and it's like
Speaker 4: a dragon and it says go dragons, and it has
Speaker 4: the number one forty eight at the bottom. Obviously, we
Speaker 4: know Stabler has an encyclopedic knowledge of all the high
Speaker 4: schools and schools in New York City, but they have
Speaker 4: to be Catholic for him to know the name.
Speaker 1: So they track down PS one forty eight and.
Speaker 4: They're talking to the principal there, who's like, I remember
Speaker 4: this all happening. I was their age that these four
Speaker 4: boys disappeared in nineteen seventy eight.
Speaker 1: They were all twelve to the teen years old.
Speaker 4: They were playing baseball after dinner and then no one
Speaker 4: saw them again. And she remembers all their names right
Speaker 4: off the top of her head because she was, I
Speaker 4: guess a kid when it happened. Their names were Juan Alvarez,
Speaker 4: Hector Padilla, Estebon Morales, and Michael Rodriguez. So there are
Speaker 4: four Latino boys that have been that went missing and
Speaker 4: their case is like still unsolved. So the precinct at
Speaker 4: the time of their disappearance has been shut down for
Speaker 4: twenty years. And Stabler also remembers at the fall of
Speaker 4: nineteen seventy eight, the papers were on strike and so
Speaker 4: that's probably another reason.
Speaker 1: So he goes, that's probably why we've never.
Speaker 4: Heard of the case, and it's like, yeah, but also
Speaker 4: they were Puerto Rican teenagers that I'm missing, so that's
Speaker 4: kind of more why. And that's also what the principal said.
Speaker 4: She's like, it wasn't going to be front page news.
Speaker 4: And then they munch, you know, comes back from a
Speaker 4: phone call and it's like, actually, all the files on
Speaker 4: this case have been checked out, so who checked them out?
Speaker 4: Now we're at the CSU lab where Stabler goes in
Speaker 4: to try to talk to this sassy female tech and
Speaker 4: she's like, if you're looking for your results, I don't
Speaker 4: have them for you. You know.
Speaker 1: She doesn't even look up from what she's doing.
Speaker 4: And this is Milly Viscarando, who is played by Paula
Speaker 4: garsis a very pretty, very pretty actress who's playing this
Speaker 4: very cool character and this is like, I believe this
Speaker 4: is her third out of four episodes that she was in.
Speaker 4: She was also in Raw and a couple of episodes.
Speaker 4: And I love the name Milli. Yeah, so cute. There's
Speaker 4: another exactly right host named Milly from the I Saw
Speaker 4: What You Did podcast?
Speaker 1: What's Up?
Speaker 4: Girl?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Girl.
Speaker 4: Stabler is like, uh, do you have those files? I
Speaker 4: need them right now and she's like, uh yeah, I'll
Speaker 4: get him to you later. And he's like no, girl,
Speaker 4: like I need him right now. And she's like, I
Speaker 4: just don't want you to think I'm weird. And it's
Speaker 4: like and he's like, too late, and I'm kind of like,
Speaker 4: I'm kind of loving their.
Speaker 1: Vibe together already.
Speaker 4: So they go to Millie's apartment and she's said that
Speaker 4: she's basically pulled about fifty to sixty unsolved cases where
Speaker 4: the victims were Hispanic teen boys in nineteen sixty to eighty.
Speaker 1: They say Hispanic a lot in this.
Speaker 4: I don't think that that is like how you're I
Speaker 4: think Hispanic refers to what language you speak, whereas Latino
Speaker 4: is like your origin. I don't know if these boys
Speaker 4: like actually spoke Spanish. But she keeps saying Hispanic. I'm
Speaker 4: not saying that. I just want everyone to know before
Speaker 4: they come for me.
Speaker 1: Her dad was a cop. Millie's dad was a cop.
Speaker 4: He was a fingerprint analyst on the job back in
Speaker 4: the day, and he was obsessed with this one case
Speaker 4: where they found a nine year old boy dead in
Speaker 4: a box and it was called the Boy in the
Speaker 4: Box case. And he was never ideed and everyone had
Speaker 4: forgotten about this case, but her dad worked on it
Speaker 4: every day until the day he died this past summer.
Speaker 4: And she goes, do you think if it was for
Speaker 4: white boys missing, the case would still be open. The
Speaker 4: answer is of course, but Stabler goes, probably not. And
Speaker 4: it's like, okay, Stabler, I can see that. You don't
Speaker 4: see color, not in a good way. So they bring
Speaker 4: in all the parents of the missing boys to look
Speaker 4: at the backpack and the lunch box and all the
Speaker 4: stuff that they found, and I'm sadly. One woman is like,
Speaker 4: that's my son's lunchbox, that's his stuff, and it's Juan
Speaker 4: Alvarez his parents.
Speaker 2: I hated when the mom wanted to touch it and
Speaker 2: they wouldn't let go.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that was really really sad. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Millie's like, you can't and it was like just let
Speaker 2: her touch. Yeah, I mean, no, she can't. When it
Speaker 2: gets solved, they can give her all that stuff. But
Speaker 2: it is really really sad, and so Stabler.
Speaker 4: In the next scene, Stabler and Millie are talking to
Speaker 4: Wan's parents and they just always were like we told
Speaker 4: them that we knew our son would never have run away.
Speaker 4: Like everybody just assumed that this band of twelve to
Speaker 4: thirteen year old boys ran away, never to be heard
Speaker 4: from again. Sure, maybe they ran away, but they never
Speaker 4: called their parents on a birthday, they never asked for money, like,
Speaker 4: they just never were founding.
Speaker 1: It just makes no sense.
Speaker 2: It's a lazy cop out. Yeah, it's an easy way out.
Speaker 2: It happened. We see this all the time in the cases.
Speaker 2: We I think, yeah, research too. It's like, oh, probably
Speaker 2: a run away. They didn't like it, Oh they left,
Speaker 2: And it's like that's lazy, that's lazy.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And like the like the girls from Cleveland, like oh,
Speaker 4: they just all ran away and not not one phone call,
Speaker 4: not one, not one ping on a debit card. Like
Speaker 4: it makes no sense and it is full lazy police works.
Speaker 2: Because I wonder the percentage of actual runaway It's like
Speaker 2: of actual teens that are like peace out and disappear
Speaker 2: because they want to disappear.
Speaker 1: Like I just can't imagine it being that hot.
Speaker 4: Well yeah, well this is what like, this is what
Speaker 4: they talk about in like child trafficking and in kidnappings
Speaker 4: and stuff like that. Like they'll report like any kid
Speaker 4: that's like a in foster care that just goes a
Speaker 4: wall like leaves for the day, they get reported as missing.
Speaker 4: So like when the when the Center for Missing and
Speaker 4: Exploited Children does numbers and are like there are this
Speaker 4: many kids today missing and exploited, it's like, Okay, actually,
Speaker 4: some of those kids just were gone for a day
Speaker 4: and they've been reported multiple times, so their numbers are
Speaker 4: in the system multiple times when really they just took
Speaker 4: off for a day and then came home, you know
Speaker 4: what I mean. Like so it's like you're saying, I
Speaker 4: think the numbers are a lot lower of missing children
Speaker 4: than we think they are. But in another sense, like
Speaker 4: but yeah, the number of kids that just run away
Speaker 4: to be like bye forever and no contact and never
Speaker 4: come home. I don't think that's as high as people
Speaker 4: would assume. So the mom says that they all suspected
Speaker 4: a guy named Robert Sawyer, who was a handyman in
Speaker 4: the neighborhood, and he would hire these boys to do
Speaker 4: odd jobs. So then they talk to the other parents,
Speaker 4: the parents of the other three boys, and they're like, oh,
Speaker 4: well there's nobody so like, you haven't found my kid's body,
Speaker 4: so he could still be alive. And Detective Stable is
Speaker 4: kind of gently trying to be like, it's really unlikely,
Speaker 4: like that your kid is alive and you have not
Speaker 4: heard a word from them in like seventeen years, and like,
Speaker 4: but then.
Speaker 2: We also hear about like in Cleveland they were missing
Speaker 2: for ten years and live.
Speaker 1: It's like true and that's the hope.
Speaker 4: And then one of the moms goes, hope is all
Speaker 4: we got, Detective Stabler and I really liked that little line.
Speaker 4: And Juan's parents said they'll miss the hope now that
Speaker 4: they've found his body. They're like, we'll miss having that
Speaker 4: hope that like when the phone rings it could be him,
Speaker 4: you know, like even though the disappointment of that, the
Speaker 4: push and pull of the disappointment must be so sad,
Speaker 4: But I guess the hope they'll miss. And then Munch
Speaker 4: and Stabler and Milly are all sin around like spitballing
Speaker 4: ideas and they're basically like this guy Sawyer was seen
Speaker 4: on the street with Padilla and Rodriguez the night they disappeared,
Speaker 4: but he beat the polygraph, which who cares because anyone
Speaker 4: can do that. But he also had an alibi from
Speaker 4: a younger employee of his name, Carlos Guzman. So I
Speaker 4: think that's why he was never fully you know, prosecuted
Speaker 4: or investigated. And Munch is like, what if the other
Speaker 4: three boys killed Wan? And then jumps down like pieced out,
Speaker 4: and Stabler's like, twe and I said, seventeen years before
Speaker 4: I met twenty seven years. Stabler says twenty seven years
Speaker 4: without a peep, like I don't.
Speaker 1: Think so, which you know, I kind of agree with.
Speaker 4: And then the boy in the box was found in
Speaker 4: a water heater box and Sawyer listed his primary occupation
Speaker 4: as plumber. So you see those little gears are grind
Speaker 4: in a Stabler's head and he's like, let's go check
Speaker 4: out that box again.
Speaker 1: So they go check it out. Millie like brings the
Speaker 1: box out.
Speaker 4: She knows everything about this crime, and then Stabler looks
Speaker 4: inside like a fold of the box and find sand
Speaker 4: and it's like, oh yeah, a professional forensics team must
Speaker 4: have just completely overlooked that sand, like I don't. It's
Speaker 4: just so weird that Stabler comes in and goes, huh,
Speaker 4: what's this. It's like her dad investigated this every day
Speaker 4: of his entire life. Never saw the sand. She's investigating it,
Speaker 4: never saw the sand. It's got to be Stabler's eagle
Speaker 4: blue eyes that are the ones that find the sand, Okay.
Speaker 4: And so Stabler is like, let's I'm gonna go check
Speaker 4: out the alibi, but why don't you test the sand?
Speaker 4: And maybe the killer tried to dump the boy in
Speaker 4: the quarry first but it didn't work out. Like they're
Speaker 4: basically trying to connect the boy in the box with
Speaker 4: je Alvarez and these other missing boys.
Speaker 1: The quarry is a funny word.
Speaker 4: Arry. Yeah, I feel like I've read like about quarries
Speaker 4: a lot in books, like in Old like The Prayer
Speaker 4: for Owen Meanie. I feel like there was always a
Speaker 4: quarry or something where kids would go do bad things,
Speaker 4: like nothing good happens at a fucking quarry.
Speaker 1: I'll say that.
Speaker 2: I've also never heard anyone use it in conversation, like
Speaker 2: it's only for movies.
Speaker 1: TVs and books.
Speaker 4: Right, Well, I think if you were to have grown
Speaker 4: up in like a small like New Hampshire town. You
Speaker 4: might be like, yeah, we're gonna go throw rocks in
Speaker 4: the quarry you want to come.
Speaker 2: Like, but is it a pond or is it something different?
Speaker 4: Okay, Annalise is in here with the assist telling us
Speaker 4: that it is a place typically a large, deep pit
Speaker 4: from which stone or other materials are or have been extracted.
Speaker 4: So it's like, yeah, you're like mining for rocks essentially
Speaker 4: out of like a more and there's different kinds of quarries,
Speaker 4: you know. I think there can be like a granite
Speaker 4: quarry and all different kinds of quarries. So then Stabler
Speaker 4: goes to talk to Carlos Guzman and he's super rude
Speaker 4: to him. He's like, oh, what's up, Pool boy, looks
Speaker 4: like you're doing really well for yourself, and it's like
Speaker 4: Stabler Sawyer Roll. The guy's like, I have my own business,
Speaker 4: and it's like you should be proud of yourself, sir.
Speaker 4: And he's like, tell me where Sawyer is and he's like,
Speaker 4: I don't know where he is and walks away, and
Speaker 4: then he goes, well, we found one of the boys,
Speaker 4: and Carlos kind of pauses, but keeps on walking. Okay,
Speaker 4: so we don't think this is the last time we're
Speaker 4: going to see Carlos. Millie tells Stabler that the stand
Speaker 4: from the quarry and the box are a match. Wow,
Speaker 4: Stabler a break in the case after three seconds of
Speaker 4: the Stabler treatment. But she also said it's a very
Speaker 4: common type of sand is used in playgrounds, golf courses
Speaker 4: all over the place, so it's kind of, you know,
Speaker 4: it's not exactly like a huge break. But Millie says
Speaker 4: that she has a last known address in Spanish Harlem
Speaker 4: for Sawyer, which is the same neighborhood as the boys.
Speaker 4: Sawyer has no family and he's had no activity on
Speaker 4: his Social Security number since nineteen eighty when he went underground,
Speaker 4: like a couple of years after these boys went missing.
Speaker 4: And Stabler's like, yeah, he might be working for cash
Speaker 4: as a handyman, like uh. And then Stabler gets a
Speaker 4: call out of nowhere and Munch says, we got we
Speaker 4: heard from a psychiatrist who said one of her patients
Speaker 4: reported a murder from nineteen seventy where a boy's body
Speaker 4: was shoved into a cardboard box. So they go to
Speaker 4: the office of doctor Singh, who is this psychiatrist and
Speaker 4: she says, my patient Anna, I haven't seen her in
Speaker 4: years since she checked out of a psych facility and vanished.
Speaker 4: Today she calls me up out of the blue, won't
Speaker 4: say where she is, won't say uh, won't come in,
Speaker 4: and you know, says she knows something about this murder.
Speaker 2: And this woman doctor saying she was in the movie Prime.
Speaker 2: Doctor Singh was Doctor sing was you? Oh my, It's
Speaker 2: like wild, how many people were in the movie Prime?
Speaker 2: Like you are always like Prime, Prime, Like it's one
Speaker 2: of my favorite It's amazing.
Speaker 4: So doctor Singh, who is in Prime, is like, yeah,
Speaker 4: I got I got this call from my client. And
Speaker 4: Stabler's like, let's dump the luds on the phone. He
Speaker 4: didn't even say that, I just know the terms. And
Speaker 4: this woman said that when she was twelve, her father
Speaker 4: murdered her brother and then forced her to help get
Speaker 4: rid of the body. And he's like, why is she
Speaker 4: reporting this now? And this the psychiatrist said, Oh, she
Speaker 4: had a dream and she suddenly remembered it. It's a
Speaker 4: little fishy. Millie's like, she must have known we were
Speaker 4: sleeping snooping around. Has this been released to the media
Speaker 4: and Stabler's like, no, it hasn't. So then they tracked
Speaker 4: the phone to a payphone in the park and the
Speaker 4: doctor said, oh, that's where she used to score ecstasy,
Speaker 4: which never seems like a dark park kind of drug,
Speaker 4: Like you never seems like you have to go to
Speaker 4: like a dark park to find ecstasy, but I guess
Speaker 4: you could. So then Stabler and Millie go to the
Speaker 4: park and they're just kind of like chatting and trying
Speaker 4: to figure it out. And then they're like, it's kind
Speaker 4: of weird that she talked about her brother because she
Speaker 4: Anna is white and the boy in the box is Latinos,
Speaker 4: so like the brother sister vibe is confusing, but maybe
Speaker 4: he was like adopted or fostered.
Speaker 1: They find Anna sitting on a bench now.
Speaker 4: She is played by Lisa Emery, who you may know
Speaker 4: as a full on batshit crazy character in Ozark named Darlene.
Speaker 4: She's this rich, poppy farmer in Ozark, and she's a
Speaker 4: really good actress. She freaks you the fuck out in
Speaker 4: Ozark and she's really good. And get this little side
Speaker 4: bit of svu alum information.
Speaker 1: She was married for over a.
Speaker 4: Decade to one Josh Peus aka Hank Abraham.
Speaker 1: Whoa cool.
Speaker 4: I wonder what happened little Sbu marriage is happening.
Speaker 2: Hopefully she didn't find a child born on Joshua.
Speaker 1: Hopefully he's not guilty of what he was in the show.
Speaker 4: So she looks at like they see her sitting on
Speaker 4: this bench, she's staring into space.
Speaker 1: She looks, you know, out of it or whatever.
Speaker 4: And she looks at Millie, who is Latina, and goes,
Speaker 4: you look like my brother. Okay, So now we cut
Speaker 4: to Huang interviewing Anna. She doesn't know her last name
Speaker 4: or who the president is. And someone actually recently told
Speaker 4: me that they stopped asking people who the president is
Speaker 4: because there's so many psychos who are part of Stop
Speaker 4: the Steal who will say.
Speaker 1: Trump even though he's not the president anymore.
Speaker 4: So it's like not even a good question to ask
Speaker 4: people to establish whether they know what time period it
Speaker 4: is anyway, So I wonder what they ask now, yeah,
Speaker 4: probably like what year is it?
Speaker 1: Like what? Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 4: And so she's not making a lot of sense. And
Speaker 4: then she does say something like they stole him from
Speaker 4: a hospital. And then she says two thousand and five,
Speaker 4: like she knows it's two thousand and five, so she's
Speaker 4: in and out of knowing what's up. And Huong is like,
Speaker 4: this is pretty common in longtime MDMA users. They have
Speaker 4: memory impairment and decreased attention span. I just like, I
Speaker 4: have barely heard of people using Molly or MDMA or
Speaker 4: ecstasy like as a long term thing.
Speaker 1: I just didn't know how addictive it was.
Speaker 2: I've heard of like you know, when you're a bad
Speaker 2: teen or you get into partying or raving in the
Speaker 2: nineties or whatever. Like I think there are people who
Speaker 2: are doing ecstasy all the time, and I.
Speaker 1: Think they might be fucked up.
Speaker 2: Like for me, I've been been Molly in a while,
Speaker 2: like I'm three times a year tops.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know same. I mean way less
Speaker 4: for me because I've been having children. But I definitely
Speaker 4: did Molly right before I.
Speaker 1: Had some years it's zero.
Speaker 2: But it's like I would never I guess if maybe
Speaker 2: I was going on a cruise, I would do it
Speaker 2: a few I would only do one time because yeah,
Speaker 2: I don't know, I can't imagine.
Speaker 1: Do well we were gonna do when we went to Lizzo,
Speaker 1: I did do it? You did it? Yeah?
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I didn't want to I didn't want to
Speaker 4: call you out, like for a for a fun concert,
Speaker 4: I would do it or something, but yeah, I.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, but it is funny when you're one of
Speaker 2: the only because me and you were on such different
Speaker 2: vibes because you were drinking, and these girls like yelled
Speaker 2: at us and you were so mad, and I was like,
Speaker 2: I don't care.
Speaker 4: These people yelled at us, and I kept being like,
Speaker 4: are we gonna get in a fight?
Speaker 1: What's happening? And I was just like, I'll just move over. Yeah,
Speaker 1: they were staring at us, really pissed.
Speaker 2: No, you came over to me and you went, are
Speaker 2: you gonna let her talk to you that way? And
Speaker 2: I went, okay, I'm floating. Why are you talking?
Speaker 4: That's Lisa. I love you, but those words would never
Speaker 4: come out of my mouth. Are you gonna let her
Speaker 4: talk to you that way? I would never say that
Speaker 4: to someone.
Speaker 1: You were, Yes, you did. You said that to me.
Speaker 4: I think I said, these girls were being bitches and
Speaker 4: they're pissed at us because we're like standing in front
Speaker 4: of them.
Speaker 1: But it's a concert. What are you supposed to fucking do?
Speaker 4: Because I always get into like a little altercations with
Speaker 4: people at concerts, cause I don't think people know how
Speaker 4: to be in crowds. But anyway, I cannot believe I
Speaker 4: would never go to you into a fight.
Speaker 2: I don't think you were goading me into a fight,
Speaker 2: but I think you were just very much like, believe
Speaker 2: these bits.
Speaker 1: I can't believe it.
Speaker 4: And I was just like, yeah, I was probably definitely
Speaker 4: not getting over it, that's for sure. Yeah.
Speaker 2: And I was just like, Lizzo will never play in
Speaker 2: a venue this small ever again.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like it was fun though, Oh that was a
Speaker 1: fun show.
Speaker 4: So Huong's giving us the lowdown on what MDMA does
Speaker 4: to your memory and in decreased attention spans, this woman's
Speaker 4: like a long time MDMA used or whatever. Millie thinks
Speaker 4: that there's something to her story. She's like, I believe
Speaker 4: her story, Like, I think there's something there, and then
Speaker 4: Stabler kind of reigns on her parade and she's like,
Speaker 4: sorry to tell you, but Anna's dad died in nineteen
Speaker 4: sixty one, nine years before the Boy in the Box
Speaker 4: was found, and in nineteen seventy seven, her mother died
Speaker 4: and left her a farmhouse in Rockland County, where the
Speaker 4: quarry happened to be, which Milly points out. She's like, okay, so,
Speaker 4: like this woman grew up like in Rockland County right
Speaker 4: by this quarry. This is all kind of connected. It's
Speaker 4: got to be.
Speaker 1: And she's like on a full mission.
Speaker 4: Finn and Munch are like this, ain't it girl, And
Speaker 4: she's like, fuck you guys, I know I'm onto something.
Speaker 4: And then she says, your hospital was involved in a
Speaker 4: black market baby scandal in nineteen sixty two, only thirty
Speaker 4: miles from where Anna grew up.
Speaker 1: One of the babies was Hispanic, she says.
Speaker 4: At the hospital, a woman is explaining that they caught
Speaker 4: the nurse responsible for this black market baby scandal.
Speaker 1: I gotta look this up and see if this is
Speaker 1: really What do you do?
Speaker 2: Just steal babies from the hospital, that's so quel, I.
Speaker 1: Guess, and sell them on the black market.
Speaker 4: I don't know, but they weren't able to track down
Speaker 4: all the babies, including this boy. I'm like, how many
Speaker 4: babies went missing before you figured it out?
Speaker 1: Was this like one.
Speaker 4: Big grab baby grab in the middle of the night
Speaker 4: where she took like five.
Speaker 2: But also and then so then the next day the
Speaker 2: mom's in the hospital just gave birth and her baby's gone,
Speaker 2: Or are these teen moms that want to sell their babies?
Speaker 4: No, no, I think these are thefts, because they're saying
Speaker 4: they tracked down all the babies, but they never found
Speaker 4: this boy. So she obviously gave this boy to somebody
Speaker 4: who awayed with the child and they could never find
Speaker 4: them again.
Speaker 1: They maybe gave a fake name, who knows.
Speaker 4: So Millie looks at these little handprints of the baby
Speaker 4: and goes, it's not him, because we've already learned that
Speaker 4: when her dad was a fingerprint analyst, he did it
Speaker 4: before things were electronic and technological, and he used to
Speaker 4: study the fingerprints.
Speaker 1: So he could just tell.
Speaker 4: And so maybe we assume she's done the same thing,
Speaker 4: and she can tell by the fingerprints of this baby
Speaker 4: that it's not him. I don't know, but she's kind
Speaker 4: of like, why would this woman have come forward at
Speaker 4: this exact time?
Speaker 1: And the woman is like, the woman.
Speaker 4: That they're talking to at the hospital is like, oh,
Speaker 4: are you guys talking about that kid missing since the seventies?
Speaker 4: And it's like, how does this bitch know about it?
Speaker 4: Like what's going on? They thought they were doing this
Speaker 4: whole thing quietly, And she's like, no, no, I read
Speaker 4: about it in the paper.
Speaker 1: She goes over. Of course she kept the paper.
Speaker 4: Of course it's open to the exact article she's talking about,
Speaker 4: and it's the obituary for Juan Alvarez. So that's what's
Speaker 4: kicked the story back into the consciousness, is just that
Speaker 4: the family obviously ran an obituary for their son. So
Speaker 4: now they're trying to take another run at Anna, and
Speaker 4: they show her a picture of the boy in the box,
Speaker 4: a picture of the boys that have been missing, and
Speaker 4: then a picture of a blanket that the blanket was
Speaker 4: found with the boy in the box.
Speaker 1: It was cut in half and it was found with
Speaker 1: the boy in the box.
Speaker 4: Suddenly Anna starts spilling tea. She's like, I remember the blanket.
Speaker 4: They show her a photo of Sawyer and she's like,
Speaker 4: he lived in my house when I was away. So
Speaker 4: they figure that what happened was Sawyer, Robert Sawyer, was
Speaker 4: Anna's mom's boyfriend after the father died, and that she
Speaker 4: was committed for the entire year of nineteen seventy eight
Speaker 4: to a psychiatric facility, and the mom died in nineteen
Speaker 4: seventy seven, So that leaves this fucking psychopath with a
Speaker 4: full empty farmhouse in Rockland County a great place to
Speaker 4: kill little boys or whatever your plan is. So they
Speaker 4: go to this house in Rockland County. They go to
Speaker 4: the backyard shed. Stabler kicks up one loose floorboard and
Speaker 4: like immediately finds a skeleton. It makes no fucking sense,
Speaker 4: but you know, I love TV magic just as much
Speaker 4: as the next person. They like, you know, they see
Speaker 4: a garbage bag, looks like it's coming up from the dirt.
Speaker 4: They pull one thing and like a little skeleton hand
Speaker 4: is right there. So at least we can prove that
Speaker 4: these four little boys didn't just vanish into thin air,
Speaker 4: and it only took thirty years to do it. So
Speaker 4: now we're just sort of kind of like, but what
Speaker 4: about the boy in the box? Like, you know, and
Speaker 4: what's going on with this guy?
Speaker 1: Where is he?
Speaker 4: So Stabler is looking at pictures of the crime scene,
Speaker 4: all these bones, and he's trying to figure out how
Speaker 4: Sawyer got the boy in the box. Like he's just
Speaker 4: trying to figure out this guy's motive, like why would
Speaker 4: he be dumping the bodies in so many places? Why
Speaker 4: would you kill the boy in the box and almost
Speaker 4: dump him at the quarry.
Speaker 1: But then dump him in Brooklyn.
Speaker 4: Millie's like, maybe someone scared him away at the quarry,
Speaker 4: and he's like, why dump one and not the others?
Speaker 4: And then they start thinking, okay, wait, how do you
Speaker 4: control fourteen boys? You scare the shit out of them?
Speaker 4: So maybe he killed one of them to make the
Speaker 4: other three fall in line. And then another thing you
Speaker 4: might do is have an accomplice to wrangle all these boys.
Speaker 1: And then they're like, who might that be?
Speaker 4: Carlos Guzman his initial alibi, his coworker quote unquote, who
Speaker 4: was just like a fourteen or fifteen year old kid
Speaker 4: at the time, only a couple years older than these
Speaker 4: boys went missing. So Stabler's giving Carlos hard interrogation, like
Speaker 4: really going at him, and then Carlos finally breaks and
Speaker 4: said he said he'd kill Anna, and he said he
Speaker 4: loved her. They had a thing him and Anna. He
Speaker 4: was visiting his grandma in Brooklyn when he was fourteen
Speaker 4: and Sawyer came by and said I had to help him.
Speaker 4: He said there's a kid in the trunk in a box,
Speaker 4: and Carlos was freaking out. He had to pull over
Speaker 4: the car so he could throw up, and he makes
Speaker 4: Carlos leave the box in the lot, and he said,
Speaker 4: if you tell anyone, I'll kill Anna. And Carlos says
Speaker 4: he knew these boys. He said he called and confessed
Speaker 4: everything to Anna, and she said she still loved him
Speaker 4: no matter what. And then he said that Robert killed Anna.
Speaker 4: So basically, this dude doesn't know that Anna's still alive.
Speaker 4: And they tell Carlos, sorry, dude, your girlfriend soil alive.
Speaker 4: Kind of she's very fucked up on ecstasy. So basically,
Speaker 4: Robert said he would kill Anna and that he'd kill
Speaker 4: him too if he talked, and that's why Carlos has
Speaker 4: stayed silent all these years. So now at the hospital,
Speaker 4: Carlos and Anna are reunited, but she acts like she
Speaker 4: doesn't really know him because she's so out of it
Speaker 4: with her memory loss. And Carlos explains that whenever Sawyer
Speaker 4: went on jobs, he would raid medicine cabinets and just
Speaker 4: give her all these random medications so he could quote
Speaker 4: unquote do things to her. So this guy, Robert Soyer,
Speaker 4: is a psycho nightmare like he's doing bad things to
Speaker 4: his stepdaughter. He's taking little boys. He obviously has no type.
Speaker 4: He's just like a psycho, and he's basically fried her
Speaker 4: brain with all these medications he's been dosing her on
Speaker 4: since she was a teenager.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you gotta be careful if you have kids. You
Speaker 2: can't just date a guy. Yeah you can just bring
Speaker 2: a step dad in. I mean, I don't know how
Speaker 2: people do it.
Speaker 1: I don't know. Yeah, it seems so scary, so scary.
Speaker 4: And then especially like she dies and there was nobody
Speaker 4: like to take over, like you just stay with my
Speaker 4: ex boyfriend who's a psychopath I don't know, or not
Speaker 4: my ex boyfriend, my boyfriend who I died. Was there
Speaker 4: like a widowing term for having a boyfriend I don't know?
Speaker 4: Anna says, his name isn't Sawyer, he has a real name,
Speaker 4: and he had told Anna same thing that he had
Speaker 4: killed Carlos, so Anna thought Carlos was dead too. They
Speaker 4: look up Robert Sawyer and they basically figure out, which
Speaker 4: they have many times on the show before, that this
Speaker 4: guy has Sawyer has stolen the identity of a guy
Speaker 4: who is probably already dead, or that maybe this guy
Speaker 4: killed and that his fingerprints that have been loaded into
Speaker 4: the system since the sixties.
Speaker 1: Those are the fingerprints of Robert Sawyer.
Speaker 4: That are on file, so they wouldn't match with like
Speaker 4: anything that came up at crime scenes because that guy's
Speaker 4: fucking dead. And so they have bad guy Sawyer's prince,
Speaker 4: but they never went into the system because probably because
Speaker 4: he passed the Polly.
Speaker 1: And he had an alibi and all these other things.
Speaker 1: It's wild.
Speaker 2: I've watched this episode in the past few weeks, like
Speaker 2: three times, and you're telling me play by play about
Speaker 2: all of it, and I have no idea what's happening.
Speaker 1: I don't know why, No you are, I don't know why.
Speaker 2: For some reason, my brain cannot handle all these prints
Speaker 2: and all these psychos from forty years ago.
Speaker 1: I like care.
Speaker 4: This is a complicated episode though, because it's like based
Speaker 4: on multiple crimes.
Speaker 1: It's involving multiple crimes.
Speaker 4: It's like involving multiple detectives and closed precincts and principles
Speaker 4: that were kids when things happen.
Speaker 1: You know, like a lot of things are happening.
Speaker 4: So basically, through finding his prints, putting his actual prints
Speaker 4: in the system, they figure out where he lives. They
Speaker 4: bust into this apartment building and they find this old
Speaker 4: fuck like on oxygen in his bed, and he's maybe
Speaker 4: laughing like yeah, it was fuck, it's like really fucked up.
Speaker 1: He's like, hey, you found me kind of.
Speaker 4: And then at the precinct, Novak walks in and then
Speaker 4: this old fuck comes in with his lawyer.
Speaker 1: He's got like an oxygen tank on him, and so
Speaker 1: is this the stepdad?
Speaker 4: Yes, this is Sawyer, Robert Sawyer, the man that the
Speaker 4: parents have always thought was responsible for taking the kids
Speaker 4: always because he was this handyman who used these boys
Speaker 4: and stuff. But he had this alibi and he had
Speaker 4: to be past to Polly, which I think a lot
Speaker 4: of psychopaths can do because they can keep their emotions flat,
Speaker 4: and I think that's what the polygraph is like testing.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and this was so long ago, because there's no
Speaker 2: way a lie detector would be yes, would not have
Speaker 2: held up fact.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 4: So I think his alibi helped. And also probably what
Speaker 4: helped was that just no one was looking for these
Speaker 4: boys because they thought they ran away. And so we
Speaker 4: find out that this guy has end stage pancreatic cancer
Speaker 4: and Stabler's like, I hope it hurts ooh. Novak says, basically,
Speaker 4: here's your deal. You can plead guilty. I'll arrange for
Speaker 4: an oncologist to treat you, and when your condition worsens,
Speaker 4: which it will, I will not oppose your counsel's request
Speaker 4: for compassionate release. So you will die a freeman. But
Speaker 4: in return, I need the name of the boy in
Speaker 4: the box. And this guy's like I don't remember, Like
Speaker 4: he's so disgusting, Like he's just like old and like
Speaker 4: can't talk, and he's like I remember, And Stabler's like,
Speaker 4: fuck you, you know everything about this boy, like you
Speaker 4: took him, you did all this stuff. Because if let
Speaker 4: me just say that, if this is true what they
Speaker 4: their theory, then this baby was stolen from a hospital
Speaker 4: in nineteen sixty two, a sensibly I guess raised with
Speaker 4: Anna as her brother, with her mother until the age
Speaker 4: of nine, where his father then killed.
Speaker 1: Him and shoved him in a box.
Speaker 4: He's not his father, his adoptive father, or the guy
Speaker 4: who stole him, essentially, excuse me. So they're thinking that
Speaker 4: this guy, this kid probably also had a horrible like
Speaker 4: nine years of life when he was alive too, of
Speaker 4: just being tortured by these horrible people. And so there's
Speaker 4: definitely this guy remembers who the kid is, like he
Speaker 4: definitely knows, but he's saying, sorry, I don't remember, like
Speaker 4: he won't confess anything.
Speaker 1: I didn't know you were so good at voices. Thank
Speaker 1: you so much.
Speaker 4: I try. I can be a pretty good impressionist. So
Speaker 4: Millie is, I'm no Melissa via Signor, but I think
Speaker 4: I'm okay. So Milly is at the grave of the
Speaker 4: Boy in the Box, which her dad and some other
Speaker 4: cops paid for. She's there with Stabler and she it's
Speaker 4: really like kind of a sweet scene. She's like, I
Speaker 4: used to hate this kid growing up, Like I thought
Speaker 4: my father loved him more than I did. And I
Speaker 4: think maybe I jinxed this case somehow by like hating
Speaker 4: on him, you know. And Stabler's like, you got to
Speaker 4: give yourself a break, like your father made some choices,
Speaker 4: like you know, he kind of ignored the kid he
Speaker 4: had there to help this kid that had gone. And
Speaker 4: then Millie kind of walks away, and we see that
Speaker 4: this gravestone that these cops paid for says, Heavenly Father
Speaker 4: blessed this unknown boy that's.
Speaker 2: Dick wolf baby off of a child's grave. Damn yeah, damn, damn, damn,
Speaker 2: damn credible. And you know what Milly and Stabler had
Speaker 2: a nice vibe.
Speaker 4: Yeah, like they had good chemistry. Like I was, like,
Speaker 4: I definitely could watch you guys fuck like I could,
Speaker 4: But I don't necessarily think that that's gonna happen, and
Speaker 4: I'm not hoping for it.
Speaker 1: But like two hot people.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but it would have been like an abuse of
Speaker 2: Stabler's power, I feel, because she's clearly a younger officer.
Speaker 4: She's consenting age she is, but at work. No, but
Speaker 4: they had a nice energy. I enjoyed it.
Speaker 1: They'd be a hot, little one time thing.
Speaker 4: I never really cared about seeing them back in Stabler hookup,
Speaker 4: but I would have watched a Millie's Stabler hookup, you know.
Speaker 1: On ah. Yeah they fucked, uh, I mean yeah, I was.
Speaker 1: I hate back.
Speaker 2: All right, listen the crimes they're sad. We'll see you
Speaker 2: after these commercials. After we hawk some goods, we'll go
Speaker 2: into some horrific cold cases.
Speaker 1: Okay, welcome back.
Speaker 2: So these are two cases and I'll cover both of them.
Speaker 2: And there's unfortunately, fortunately I don't know, oh but not
Speaker 2: a lot of information on either of.
Speaker 4: These cold cases, and none were solved. Ever, maybe this
Speaker 4: is a job for Jensen and Holes. Yeah, and you know,
Speaker 4: when we.
Speaker 2: Were talking to Karen a few episodes back. She was
Speaker 2: saying that the crimes that she hates the most or
Speaker 2: that honor the most are the unsolved, like the child
Speaker 2: unsolved criminal cases. So I did think about her while yeah,
Speaker 2: researching this, and it is sad. So we'll do the
Speaker 2: Boy in the Box first. A boy's body around four
Speaker 2: or five was found bruised and naked in a cardboard
Speaker 2: box in a patch of woods outside of Philadelphia in
Speaker 2: February of nineteen fifty seven, so long ago. Yeah, and
Speaker 2: this boy kind of became a symbol of child abuse.
Speaker 2: Said its worst, it was bad. You could tell that
Speaker 2: he had to deal with a lot of sickness, hunger,
Speaker 2: and his life ended in a vicious, vicious beating. And
Speaker 2: unfortunately this boy still has no name. It is an
Speaker 2: open homicide investigation in twenty twenty one.
Speaker 4: And younger than like they like it doesn't really matter,
Speaker 4: but like four or five is so like a little baby,
Speaker 4: like and they made him nine in the episode. I
Speaker 4: think just to be like just a smidge more palatable
Speaker 4: than four, you know, like, oh so horrible.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like hurting a little kid is I don't get it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the first officer at the scene was a guy
Speaker 2: named Elmer Palmer, and he died in twenty eleven, but
Speaker 2: this case haunted him forever, and all the other detectives
Speaker 2: who worked on this case never really gave up. It
Speaker 2: was always in their hearts and minds and actions. They
Speaker 2: visited the boy's grave often. So basically, this guy Elmer Palmer,
Speaker 2: I mean, that's what a funny name. Elmer glue Arnold Palmer.
Speaker 1: Is just too much. Elmer is a funny name, Elmer funn.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, so here I've done the scene February twenty sixth,
Speaker 2: nineteen fifty seven. He remembers the boy's hair had been
Speaker 2: cut really crudely, and his body was covered with loose
Speaker 2: hairs from like the haircut.
Speaker 1: So that's confusing.
Speaker 2: Detective Palmer remembers thinking we'll solve this quickly because there
Speaker 2: were so many leads, but then so many problems happened,
Speaker 2: and all the leads didn't really help out at all,
Speaker 2: didn't pan out. A college student actually found the body
Speaker 2: a day sooner, on February twenty fifth, but waited to
Speaker 2: call the police until the next day after he went
Speaker 2: to talk to a priest, and so because of that
Speaker 2: that fucked the case because the cold slows down decomposition,
Speaker 2: so it was impossible to tell how long the boy
Speaker 2: had been dead. So if any of you are listening,
Speaker 2: don't waste time going to a priest.
Speaker 1: Please please just go tell the authorities.
Speaker 2: So when I was home a few months ago there,
Speaker 2: like I was staying back at the condo, you know,
Speaker 2: my Scope condo, and there was like an Amazon Prime
Speaker 2: food delivery downstairs that was not picked up for like
Speaker 2: a day and a half, and I thought, I was like,
Speaker 2: someone died. I'm like, I know, someone died, Like why
Speaker 2: else whence you could get your groceries? And then I
Speaker 2: was like, well, maybe it's just scheduled. And they didn't
Speaker 2: realize they'd be out of town for Thanksgiving and they
Speaker 2: just showed up like I don't know, but it was
Speaker 2: I didn't call anybody, but I'm gonna keep I don't know,
Speaker 2: I don't know, but it was groceries.
Speaker 4: It's kind of weird or like if you saw like
Speaker 4: a food delivery of any kind like just sitting there
Speaker 4: for a day, you'd be like yeah.
Speaker 2: And then it was already so late, it was like
Speaker 2: past midnight, and I was like, do I buzz up
Speaker 2: to an apartment at this time of night, and I
Speaker 2: didn't do anything, So I did not see something say something,
Speaker 2: So I should check in and see if there was
Speaker 2: a death in the building. Okay, neither here nor there,
Speaker 2: and we're back. But yeah, if you find a dead body,
Speaker 2: don't make a pit stuff at the church. Just call somebody.
Speaker 1: Anyway.
Speaker 2: The autopsy confirmed the child was beaten to death and
Speaker 2: was ill and undernourished. Like I said up top, his
Speaker 2: baby teeth were intact and he had never ever been
Speaker 2: to a dentist. His body had small scars that looked
Speaker 2: like surgical incisions, but they asked local doctors and hospitals
Speaker 2: and there were no records of him or any surgeries.
Speaker 1: Like, nothing turned up.
Speaker 2: Photographs of the boy's face were printed in newspapers and
Speaker 2: hung on storefronts and mailed with utility bills throughout Philly
Speaker 2: and beyond. They checked orphanages and other child care institutions.
Speaker 1: Nothing.
Speaker 2: This case really reads like an SVU episode legit, like
Speaker 2: it's a treasure hunt relay race of place to place
Speaker 2: to place to place, and so it's not just SVEW magic.
Speaker 2: It's like, this is what the cops are doing.
Speaker 1: I'm just running around.
Speaker 4: It's like it's just like so crazy that like no
Speaker 4: one because you'd think, oh, well, the parents would have
Speaker 4: reported him missing unless the mom is dead or the dad,
Speaker 4: you know, like unless they've also been killed. And then
Speaker 4: this kid was taken and killed in a different way
Speaker 4: or something. No, the parents killed the kid, yeah or
Speaker 4: the Yeah, I'm thinking of various things, like a kid
Speaker 4: was missing, like they're they're like a couple of different ways,
Speaker 4: like that the parents killed the kid, or whoever killed
Speaker 4: the kid also killed the parents. But like what I'm
Speaker 4: saying is no one recognized this kid. No family member,
Speaker 4: no neighbor, like nobody recognized who.
Speaker 1: This kid was that they just never saw.
Speaker 2: Again, I kept thinking about Eileen Warnos in a way,
Speaker 2: and the community knew she was being abused and.
Speaker 1: I'm not, but like she did live in the woods,
Speaker 1: and so.
Speaker 2: I thought about her here where It's like maybe these
Speaker 2: are off the grid. Sure, weirdos like that lived in
Speaker 2: the woods somewhere or like you know a lot of
Speaker 2: people don't know if they were unhoused, like.
Speaker 1: Maybe so true. There's just so much shit.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and I guess in nineteen fifty seven, it's like
Speaker 4: people are just kind of like you could leave town
Speaker 4: and no one would really know, like, oh, we're moving by,
Speaker 4: and like no, you know, no one knows where you've gone.
Speaker 4: And it's not you can't track people as much as now,
Speaker 4: you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like you're right, Like a whole family could have
Speaker 2: been like we're moving and then killed this kid, left
Speaker 2: him in ditched town, like yeah, but then at least
Speaker 2: the community would have recognized recognized him.
Speaker 1: That's what I'm like.
Speaker 2: Yeah, they did find a man's corduroy cap near the body,
Speaker 2: and they traced it to a store, which I'm impressed with.
Speaker 2: In nineteen fifty seven, the owner recognized the strap from
Speaker 2: a man in his twenties who came in alone, but
Speaker 2: nothing was that special about him and they could never
Speaker 2: find him. They traced the cardboard box to another store.
Speaker 2: It was one of a dozen that held bascinets that
Speaker 2: were sold from December third, nineteen fifty six to February sixteenth,
Speaker 2: nineteen fifty seven. So they found these boxes, but that
Speaker 2: was the dead end.
Speaker 4: God, that makes me feel like though, if the parents
Speaker 4: killed this boy, that they had another kid, like a
Speaker 4: baby from a basinette that.
Speaker 1: Used the cat nut yeah.
Speaker 2: So anyway, so they tracked down all but one buyer
Speaker 2: of the bassinette. Wow, which is amazing since it was
Speaker 2: a cash only place.
Speaker 6: Wow.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so good classic detective work. I mean, these are
Speaker 2: the detectives you want to fuck, you know what I mean? Yeah,
Speaker 2: these are these are the hotties. But yeah, no, luck,
Speaker 2: I can't believe they tracked all those boxes down.
Speaker 1: But yeah, nothing.
Speaker 2: So then tons of tips and theories. Obviously, maybe the
Speaker 2: boy was a refugee who came to America after the
Speaker 2: Hungarian Revolution of nineteen fifty six, so they checked eleven
Speaker 2: thousand Hungarian passports, found nothing. Then they go, maybe he
Speaker 2: could have been the son of wandering carnival workers. And
Speaker 2: all these carnival workers were cleared that they looked into.
Speaker 2: But that's another thing we didn't think of, like traveling
Speaker 2: job people. I didn't you know, Maybe they were son
Speaker 2: of a traveling roofer who worked in the area and left.
Speaker 2: The roofer was found and he was with his son,
Speaker 2: who was safe and chilling, happy, And then I don't know,
Speaker 2: say this, it's the VIDOC society v I D O
Speaker 2: c Q. Yeah that sounds I don't like a queue
Speaker 2: without a U though, it makes me comfortable.
Speaker 4: And end of the word Q is weird. Yeah so
Speaker 4: rock No, that's not even now, that's not with a Q. Oh, hypnotic,
Speaker 4: That's what I was thinking of.
Speaker 1: Hypnotic.
Speaker 4: We used to drink that hypnotique. It's like blue. We
Speaker 4: used to get that.
Speaker 1: For fun New York, for fun. So yeah.
Speaker 2: The VIDOC Society is a Philadelphia group composed largely of
Speaker 2: law enforcement professionals who investigate unsolved crimes that have been
Speaker 2: unsolved for a really long time.
Speaker 1: So they adopted this case.
Speaker 2: And if you guys are thinking this society seems kind
Speaker 2: of familiar, you're correct. Chester Lake, if you remember, was
Speaker 2: a member of this crises.
Speaker 1: And he would go down to Philly for their meetings.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, so and this is I think it's the
Speaker 2: episode where he ends up killing the person and getting
Speaker 2: arrested and peace out. And there's like another actress who
Speaker 2: works totally in this Philly group. I would love to
Speaker 2: be able to join. I wonder if you could just
Speaker 2: be a regular podcaster and joy No, I think you
Speaker 2: have to have law enforcement, but maybe they need my eyes.
Speaker 4: Because trust me, podcasters have knocked on their doors.
Speaker 1: I'm sure.
Speaker 4: Oh man, Yeah, maybe they need fresh eyes. You guys
Speaker 4: need fresh podcasting eyes on this case.
Speaker 2: And then a real life Melinda Warner is a member
Speaker 2: of this onsolved group and she was a medical examiner
Speaker 2: at the time, and she was like haunted by the case.
Speaker 2: And her name is Remington Bristow. That is from a
Speaker 2: movie that name Remy. I bet they call her Remy
Speaker 2: Remington Bristow, I mean, and that's a gun. I wonder
Speaker 2: if like her parents were in the Armed Force Cop
Speaker 2: World too, Remington Bristow.
Speaker 1: Wait, is that a man?
Speaker 6: Oh?
Speaker 1: I just assumed it was a woman because I said
Speaker 1: Melinda Warner. Yeah, I think it's a man. Yes it is,
Speaker 1: but I wish it wasn't.
Speaker 6: So.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he was.
Speaker 2: Obviously haunted by this, and he carried a death of
Speaker 2: the child in his briefcase, which clearly makes me think
Speaker 2: he did it.
Speaker 1: You're a creep. What's happening? No, And a.
Speaker 2: Death mask is a wax or plaster cast or mole
Speaker 2: taken from the face of a dead individual.
Speaker 1: Oh wow, I've never heard of that.
Speaker 2: So they're true portraits and sometimes they change, you know,
Speaker 2: if so, like because of the eyes you have to
Speaker 2: close the eyes or shit like that. Yeah, So he
Speaker 2: carried this mold of this kid's face. So he's a freak.
Speaker 2: I don't know if I like Remington anymore. So Remington's
Speaker 2: theory was the child was the son of unmarry of
Speaker 2: an unmarried daughter of a couple who ran a foster
Speaker 2: home in an old mansion.
Speaker 1: So that's his idea.
Speaker 2: You know, we all no idea is a bad idea JK.
Speaker 2: And then in nineteen ninety eight, the body was exhumed
Speaker 2: and reburied at Ivy Hills Cemetery and it was a
Speaker 2: plot donated by the cemetery. And during this exhumation and reburial,
Speaker 2: they obtained the boy's d and put it in the system.
Speaker 2: So they're hoping one.
Speaker 4: Day, maybe they'll be like a familial match one day
Speaker 4: or something.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's what I'm hoping for. Wow.
Speaker 2: Other members of the Secret Society Solving group is William H.
Speaker 2: Kelly and he's a retired Philadelphia detective and Joseph mcgillan,
Speaker 2: a retired investigator of the Emmy's Office. And they believe
Speaker 2: that there was a woman who grew up in Philly
Speaker 2: and she says that when she was a child, her
Speaker 2: parents brought a boy home and kept him in the basement.
Speaker 2: One day, this woman said that her mother battered the
Speaker 2: boy to death and drove him with her to the
Speaker 2: patch of woods to dispose of the body.
Speaker 1: Okay, so this is Anna.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And the woman told her story to Kelly and
Speaker 2: mcgillan in the early two thousands in front of a psychiatrist,
Speaker 2: and she decided to come forward after a television reprise
Speaker 2: of the case. And the retired detectives do think she
Speaker 2: is the real deal, but other but other members and
Speaker 2: retired Philly cops and an FBI agent who's the president
Speaker 2: of the VIDOC Society are not sure and say that
Speaker 2: and nothing she has said has been proven, right, But
Speaker 2: that's the last kind of bit of information. And it
Speaker 2: is obviously like SVU was inspired by this woman, But
Speaker 2: why would you.
Speaker 1: I don't know if you can make this up.
Speaker 4: I guess that's another thing too, is like there could
Speaker 4: this could have been a foster kid, is what they're saying.
Speaker 4: And like then there's like a lot of foster kids
Speaker 4: bounce around and you know, nobody's keeping track, Like I
Speaker 4: don't know what the records were like in nineteen fifty seven,
Speaker 4: but you know.
Speaker 1: That's so fucked up. Yeah, but it's also probably so
Speaker 1: strange to be.
Speaker 2: A kid, and I I doubt someone that would be
Speaker 2: a kid that they kept in the basement would treat
Speaker 2: other kids well. But you are being treated better than Like,
Speaker 2: what would you do if your mom came home with a.
Speaker 1: Boy and locked him in the basement.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's it's kind of like what happened with Nick
Speaker 4: Murray Brown, where they were all these other kids, but
Speaker 4: Nick Murray got all of the of the brunt of
Speaker 4: the violence, and the other kids were just like happy
Speaker 4: it wasn't them. You know, I think you go into
Speaker 4: survival mode. So yeah, like I said, it is a
Speaker 4: cold case.
Speaker 2: And then the next case that is really closely linked
Speaker 2: to the SVU episode, I wouldn't really be able to
Speaker 2: cover one of these, and you'll see how many similarities.
Speaker 2: It's called the Clinton Avenue five, not to be confused
Speaker 2: with the Central Park five. But you guys are amazing
Speaker 2: smart people. I don't think you would be confused, but.
Speaker 1: I was, okay.
Speaker 2: So on August twentieth, nineteen seventy eight, five teenagers disappeared
Speaker 2: in Newark, New Jersey. So the five teens were named
Speaker 2: Melvin Pittman, Ernest Taylor, Alvin Turner, Randy Johnson, and Michael McDowell.
Speaker 1: So those are the boys.
Speaker 2: And they were black boys, and so obviously would this
Speaker 2: case be handled differently if it was five white boys.
Speaker 2: And I think we can assume yes, And that is
Speaker 2: something to think about while we talk about this. And
Speaker 2: the boys did everything together. They were always together, best friends.
Speaker 2: And so they were playing basketball at west Side Park
Speaker 2: before meeting up on Clinton Avenue to earn some money
Speaker 2: by helping a local contractor move And this local contractor
Speaker 2: did this all the time, and like teens helped him out,
Speaker 2: and it was kind of known in the community. It
Speaker 2: wasn't like it wasn't like a classic like you've always
Speaker 2: want some candy, Like it was a familiar guy in
Speaker 2: the neighborhood.
Speaker 1: It wasn't a loose contractor.
Speaker 2: So basically after the game, like they all went home
Speaker 2: to change, maybe grab a bite to eat, and then
Speaker 2: they all came back to the corner of Fabian Place
Speaker 2: in Clinton Avenue. The contractor's name is Lee Evans. He
Speaker 2: told police he picked them up to help move boxes,
Speaker 2: but drop them back off on Clinton Avenue and they
Speaker 2: were never seen again. But like he dropped them off
Speaker 2: and the truck was last seen after ten pm at
Speaker 2: Fabian and Clinton, So the truck was seen there at
Speaker 2: night where you know where the boys were last scene?
Speaker 1: So was it a drop off? Was he just driving around?
Speaker 2: We don't know, And there was a sixth teen on
Speaker 2: the truck but the dad made him get off before
Speaker 2: they left.
Speaker 1: Oh wow.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there was no evidence, not a trace. But also
Speaker 2: it's like how is there no evidence? There's a contry,
Speaker 2: like get the evidence? What do you mean there's no evidence?
Speaker 2: Did they not search the fibers of the truck? Like,
Speaker 2: I just I don't trust that there was no evidence? Yeah,
Speaker 2: did they search this fucker's house? Like I just don't
Speaker 2: believe this case. Like we'll get to how little information
Speaker 2: that really is, but like, I just what do you mean?
Speaker 2: No trace, no evidence? They were last scene places and
Speaker 2: they are children with stuff, Like I just don't get it. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but he passed the lie detector test, so he was cleared.
Speaker 1: So nuts.
Speaker 2: They tried hard to solve it, apparently asking advice from psychics.
Speaker 1: Hello, Sebastian Valentine.
Speaker 2: So that's how desperate they got. They were legit like
Speaker 2: talking to psychics. They followed hundreds of leads. Apparently I
Speaker 2: just don't trust I just am really, I mean, I'm
Speaker 2: upset in every fucking case. So they followed hundreds of leads,
Speaker 2: apparently searched mental wards, youth houses, circuses, looked into mass
Speaker 2: suicides because like Jones Township was happening around the same time,
Speaker 2: so they're like, maybe they're in occult and killed themselves.
Speaker 2: They also were trying to match the kids to like
Speaker 2: any mass murders from all over the country, like they
Speaker 2: just they found no links. And I'm like, it is Lee,
Speaker 2: it is Lee Evans. It is Lee Evans. I don't care.
Speaker 2: It is fucking him. Photos of him like he has
Speaker 2: he has shark alligator eyes. There's no soul. There's no
Speaker 2: soul in his eyes. I could tell. I mean, it's
Speaker 2: like Marcus Guess what's Marcus Wesson? Like there are killers
Speaker 2: where you could just there's no there's nothing that.
Speaker 1: It was just cold Richard.
Speaker 2: Ramirez, you know, like you could just tell somethings off.
Speaker 1: But I also know this information.
Speaker 2: If I saw him walking down the street, would I
Speaker 2: think this too, I don't know, But just looking at.
Speaker 1: His photos made me think, like, you have no fucking soul.
Speaker 2: So they did have one lead, where an unidentified caller
Speaker 2: said that the five had been arrested for trying to
Speaker 2: steal a truck in DC, but there were no records
Speaker 2: of that. And how are like five teens getting to
Speaker 2: and from DC in the seventies.
Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't I have no idea.
Speaker 2: But and they traced the call to the National Visitors
Speaker 2: Center in DC, but like couldn't find who made the call,
Speaker 2: but they said that they are in DC.
Speaker 1: So then the case was.
Speaker 2: Reopened again in nineteen eighty six when a psychic said
Speaker 2: the bodies could be found at a garbage site south
Speaker 2: of Newark Airport.
Speaker 4: This is why we're opening up reopening cases based on
Speaker 4: the words of psychics.
Speaker 2: Better than nothing, I mean, if it's a cold case,
Speaker 2: it's like, fine, let's fucking do it.
Speaker 1: No luck though.
Speaker 2: Other theory were that they maybe moved to DC and
Speaker 2: joined an underground religious sect, but there is no proof.
Speaker 1: And also like there's.
Speaker 4: Just no way five boys would all get into that,
Speaker 4: Like one of them would have been like this isn't
Speaker 4: for me and would have gone home, you know what
Speaker 4: I mean, Like, there's just no way five boys are
Speaker 4: of the same mind to do anything.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and they didn't give off troubled runaway vibes. And
Speaker 2: like you said, all five of them decided to ditch
Speaker 2: their family. Like, I don't know, teens are impressionable, but
Speaker 2: that seems like a lot to ask them for your friends.
Speaker 2: Completely also not a fun fact. But at any given
Speaker 2: I didn't think about this at any given time in
Speaker 2: our country. There are thousands of bodies that lay unidentified
Speaker 2: in morgs around the country. We don't think about this. Yeah,
Speaker 2: there's fucking dead bodies found all over the place. People
Speaker 2: are dying left and right, and no one I don't
Speaker 2: So there's like tech Like this article was from like
Speaker 2: two thousand and eight or something. I don't know, but
Speaker 2: the number was forty thousand. Wow, so who knows. So
Speaker 2: in two thousand and eight, one of the teen's sisters
Speaker 2: volunteered a swab off of her cheek cells, hoping to
Speaker 2: be matched with one of the corpses.
Speaker 1: No luck.
Speaker 2: Then, in twenty ten, Essex County Prosecutor's office announced that
Speaker 2: Evans was arrested for the crime along with his cousin
Speaker 2: Philander Hampton, and were charged with luring the boys to
Speaker 2: the house in Newark and locking them in the house
Speaker 2: and setting the house on fire. They allegedly burned the
Speaker 2: boys as retaliation for the boys stealing some weed. So
Speaker 2: this Philander guy, he was in jail for something else
Speaker 2: and he decided to confess to these crimes while in jail.
Speaker 1: So there is no happending.
Speaker 4: Like bone or anything at the house fire it gets
Speaker 4: for okay, So okay, sorry, no, it's not your fault.
Speaker 1: It's a fucking mess. Our world is a mess.
Speaker 2: So yeah, the allegedly it's like they sold So what
Speaker 2: this Hampton guy said was like the boys stole a
Speaker 2: pound of weed and so Lee locked them in a
Speaker 2: closet at gunpoint and burned the house down.
Speaker 1: Like what the fuck?
Speaker 2: But the police treated this fire and the missing teens
Speaker 2: as separate cases and didn't ever investigate for bodies in
Speaker 2: the fire.
Speaker 1: Okay, but also what closet? What house?
Speaker 2: Is this an abandoned house because of those leice house,
Speaker 2: you'd look into it. So it's like, but if this,
Speaker 2: if he was a contractor and he was hired to
Speaker 2: work on this house that burnt down and he was
Speaker 2: last seen, why wouldn't they have investigated it? Or was
Speaker 2: this just like some abandoned weird house he knew about. Yeah,
Speaker 2: maybe that he tricked them into thinking there was work
Speaker 2: and then burnt it down and that's why it wasn't connected.
Speaker 1: Like it's just hard. It's just hard to figure it out.
Speaker 2: But like I don't know if there was just a
Speaker 2: fire in town and then a missing person, like is
Speaker 2: it common sense?
Speaker 1: Just yeah, like search the rebel.
Speaker 2: I don't know, but it's just like sad, And it's
Speaker 2: sad to think about these boys friends in a closet
Speaker 2: together slowly die, Like it's just really horrifying to think about.
Speaker 1: I mean, hopefully this isn't true. I don't know.
Speaker 2: So the Newark Fire Department then later admitted that they
Speaker 2: often let abandoned buildings burn, like in the late nineteen seventies, like.
Speaker 1: They just oh maybe, so was there an abandoned building.
Speaker 4: If it was burned to the ground and like there
Speaker 4: was never an attempt to put it out, then it's possible.
Speaker 4: I guess that the body's fully burnt up, like even
Speaker 4: the bone.
Speaker 1: But I thought that I'm going off of making a.
Speaker 4: Murderer with like the Teresa Hallbach evidence, where like they
Speaker 4: found fragments of bone in the burned in of when
Speaker 4: like so that I didn't think bone ever fully fully
Speaker 4: burned up unless it was like a super super like yeah.
Speaker 1: Because I don't know the case that.
Speaker 2: I don't know that case, but like if the fire
Speaker 2: department came and put it out, maybe.
Speaker 1: That like saves the evidence.
Speaker 2: And you're right if they just let like buildings burn
Speaker 2: So yeah, it was an abandoned building and the fire
Speaker 2: department just let.
Speaker 1: It burn down. Yeah.
Speaker 2: I mean this is like the quote unquote best theory,
Speaker 2: but I don't want this to be true.
Speaker 1: Uh huh. So, like I said, this case came out or.
Speaker 2: This so this all came out because Hampton was in
Speaker 2: jail for unrelated crimes and then confessed to this crime
Speaker 2: and implicated Evans, but there was no evidence except his word.
Speaker 2: And we know how courts were like Casey Anthony, Hello,
Speaker 2: you need a body and you need how the murder happened.
Speaker 2: You can't. It's not a gossip court, Okay. So since
Speaker 2: no human remains were found where they were, like, there's
Speaker 2: no case. But Hampton accepted a plea deal, but he
Speaker 2: served only ten years for the five murders and he
Speaker 2: had to testify against Evans, who was acquitted of the crime.
Speaker 1: Because there's no fucking evidence.
Speaker 4: Oh my god. And this guy asked to say in
Speaker 4: jail for ten more years when he didn't well, but
Speaker 4: he did. Wow, nothing to do with it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he should have said something earlier. This is true.
Speaker 2: And Hampton was released from prison in February twenty seventeen,
Speaker 2: and there's no other theories. Lee Evans was pissed and
Speaker 2: after the trial, filed a civil suit in superior Court
Speaker 2: against the Essex County Prosecutor's office, the Newark Police Department,
Speaker 2: and US Senator Cory Booker.
Speaker 1: Is funny to me, Yeah, mister Rosario Dawson.
Speaker 2: People said it's a hard case because he has to
Speaker 2: prove to the like that the prosecutors lacked probable cause
Speaker 2: to arrest him. But they have that, you know, like
Speaker 2: if you're the last scene with the bodies, you have
Speaker 2: probable crouse. So I don't I found no information on
Speaker 2: how the civil case panned out, which I think means
Speaker 2: it was thrown out or like not really happened, because
Speaker 2: if he settled, maybe it would be printed. I don't know,
Speaker 2: So no information on how the civil lawsuit worked out.
Speaker 2: He said that he is just trying to clear his name.
Speaker 2: He's like, I volunteered info to the cops and gave
Speaker 2: them information and like insists that the cops had other
Speaker 2: witnesses who saw the boys after he left them. He said,
Speaker 2: if he never said anything, he would have never been involved.
Speaker 2: And instead of using his lead, they used it against him.
Speaker 2: To me, it's classic sociopaths. Yeah, like behavior, but whatever.
Speaker 2: Terry Lawson, who was the brother of Michael McDowell, one
Speaker 2: of the missing teens, said that this lawsuit is bullshit
Speaker 2: and it's an insult and in quotes, he walked away
Speaker 2: from a murder and he's still at it. That's just ridiculous,
Speaker 2: meaning like, bro, you came out on top, like you're
Speaker 2: not in jail, Like, shut up.
Speaker 1: Shut up. You don't get now, you don't now get money.
Speaker 2: Also, yeah, but if Lee is innocent, that's a bummer
Speaker 2: for him, but also, you're not in jail.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I think he did it. Yeah, it
Speaker 1: sounds like he did it.
Speaker 2: And I'm sure you all feel the same way. But
Speaker 2: it is just fucked that five teens can vanish in
Speaker 2: a major American city and the story is completely unknown
Speaker 2: with no evidence.
Speaker 1: That's strange.
Speaker 2: This journalist and author James Queally quality. I don't know
Speaker 2: why so many vowels, but he had the same experience
Speaker 2: and reaction as me. Like when you google this case,
Speaker 2: you get a sparse Wikipedia, some blogs, an occasional article,
Speaker 2: but the articles are mostly from the twenty ten arrests
Speaker 2: and that trial, So from nineteen seventy eight to twenty ten,
Speaker 2: there's really like nothing. It's like the least amount of
Speaker 2: sources I've used for.
Speaker 1: One of these.
Speaker 4: And so is this case considered solved since one man
Speaker 4: served some time for it even though the other man
Speaker 4: was acquitted, it's not.
Speaker 2: It's probably not nice anymore because we don't know. Yeah, nobody,
Speaker 2: nothing but crazy. It's so sad that this happened for
Speaker 2: like if this, if this is true, it's like I
Speaker 2: don't know what's worse, not knowing and hoping.
Speaker 4: Something like and it's like you're out on the streets,
Speaker 4: you're like with your friends. You're thinking, oh, I'm in
Speaker 4: a group, like I'm safe, you know, like cause I'm
Speaker 4: in a like I'm not walking the street alone, and
Speaker 4: then you just get picked up with all your best
Speaker 4: friends and vanish. It's really crazy and sad. Yeah, but
Speaker 4: we have a great interview, guys, and it's going to
Speaker 4: pick you right back up off the floor, so.
Speaker 1: Stay right with us.
Speaker 4: Okay, you guys, we have quite the guest for you today.
Speaker 1: She's so accomplished.
Speaker 4: You've seen her on everything from All My Children to
Speaker 4: Devious Maids, The Shield, on My Block and of course
Speaker 4: Harold and Kumar go to White Castle. But today we
Speaker 4: are delighted to talk to her about her role as
Speaker 4: Millie vis Krando. Please check out our chat with Paula Garcis.
Speaker 2: Well, we started going through your IMDb and we're like, wait,
Speaker 2: what nineteen ninety four?
Speaker 1: Like, it was really shocking. You've been You've been killing it.
Speaker 2: You're in so many cult classics and so many projects.
Speaker 2: What do you get recognized for the most when you're
Speaker 2: out and about law and hotter.
Speaker 5: SVU is totally up there. It's totally up there, and
Speaker 5: that's the reason why I'm here. I mean, you ladies
Speaker 5: are lovely, but Spu kills it for me all the time,
Speaker 5: and Harold and coolmar the Shield and lately on my Block.
Speaker 4: No oh, yes, Well, Kara has a friend I know,
Speaker 4: Jessica Garcia.
Speaker 1: She's so great and she's having a baby that's right,
Speaker 1: so exciting.
Speaker 2: So SVU, like you were living in New York was
Speaker 2: did you know it was a big well you've done
Speaker 2: other Dick Wolf stuff. How did it feel as a
Speaker 2: New Yorker to book it? How is the audition process
Speaker 2: and like all of that kind of stuff.
Speaker 5: So my Law and Hotter story is actually really really cool.
Speaker 5: Law and Order, the original, the one with Michael Moriarty,
Speaker 5: was actually my first TV gig, if I remember correctly,
Speaker 5: back in nineteen it's either eighty eight or eighty nine.
Speaker 5: And I was super excited about it because it like
Speaker 5: legitimized my sagcard. So because of it, I was able
Speaker 5: to become a SAG member and the whole nine yards
Speaker 5: And obviously Law and Order at the time was amazing
Speaker 5: and it still is, and it was a big deal,
Speaker 5: and Michael Moriarty was like so famous, and I was
Speaker 5: just like, wow, he's like real, He's like a real actor,
Speaker 5: and I'm like, I'm going to be like a real actress,
Speaker 5: and so that that was an amazing experience. But then
Speaker 5: years later I did a movie directed by Jamie Redford,
Speaker 5: Robert Redford's son, called Spin. And the reason why I'm
Speaker 5: telling him story is because James. It was James Redford.
Speaker 5: May he rest in peace, because he passed away pretty
Speaker 5: pretty soon, like it was a couple of months ago
Speaker 5: if I remember correctly. But he was very good friends
Speaker 5: with Neil Bear.
Speaker 1: We love Neil. Yeah, he's been on our podcast two times.
Speaker 7: Okay, so you.
Speaker 5: Know that he's like og right, And they were very
Speaker 5: good friends. And after I did his movie, he sent
Speaker 5: the movie to Neil Bear and he was like, I
Speaker 5: think you should have this girl on your show on
Speaker 5: law and on her SCU and he set up a
Speaker 5: meeting and I met Neil Bearer here in Los Angeles.
Speaker 5: I happened to be in Los Angeles doing pressed for
Speaker 5: the movie, and I sat down with Neil Bear and
Speaker 5: I couldn't believe it.
Speaker 7: I was like, I can't believe I'm.
Speaker 5: Actually like in this legit like showrunner meeting. And he
Speaker 5: was just like asking me things about New York and
Speaker 5: we just like had a meeting, and then he said
Speaker 5: that I should I should do like a casting session
Speaker 5: with Jonathan Strauss, who has always been my homiet. He's
Speaker 5: been very very supportive of bringing me in for a
Speaker 5: lot of Law and Order stuff and other shows. And
Speaker 5: obviously he casted me like way way way back, and
Speaker 5: so he was like, sure, you know, let's do it.
Speaker 5: And I think I read a little bit and that's
Speaker 5: how I got on Law and Order SPU.
Speaker 7: It was so cool.
Speaker 5: Because I was a huge fan, of course of Marishka
Speaker 5: Hargate and Christopher Maloney, and I see like I was
Speaker 5: all over that.
Speaker 7: I really went into it first.
Speaker 5: As a fan, and that's how I did my meeting
Speaker 5: with Neil Bhrer more like a fan. Like I remember
Speaker 5: rambling the way I am now and talking about like
Speaker 5: my favorite episodes and this and that, and he was like, Wow,
Speaker 5: you really are into it. You're not like just saying
Speaker 5: nice things to get the gig. And I'm like, dude,
Speaker 5: I know everything. I know a Firshia has done through
Speaker 5: I know what Christopher looked.
Speaker 7: Why don't they kiss?
Speaker 5: Like why aren't like the show?
Speaker 2: But yeah, is there anything when you showed up to
Speaker 2: set as like a fan of the show, knowing so
Speaker 2: much information that you were kind of surprised by didn't
Speaker 2: expect something wild?
Speaker 1: You know what?
Speaker 5: What I what really sticks out for me, uh, apart
Speaker 5: from acting.
Speaker 7: On the show is the fact that Dick.
Speaker 5: Wolf In in like the middle of my first episode,
Speaker 5: which I don't remember if it was Name or I
Speaker 5: think it was Name. I think Name was the first
Speaker 5: one that I did. And in the middle of the episode,
Speaker 5: they were like, oh, Dick Wolf wants you to come
Speaker 5: into his office and talk to him. And I was like,
Speaker 5: I'm so fired, Like he's gonna fire me. He hates
Speaker 5: my job. He hates my work like I so. And
Speaker 5: he was really really like serious, and I was very nervous,
Speaker 5: and he was like, hey, hey, listen.
Speaker 7: I like what you're doing.
Speaker 5: And it's really cool, but there's there's something about your voice.
Speaker 5: It's really high pitched and the rhythm the way you
Speaker 5: talk is way too fast for us. And it was
Speaker 5: funny really, but I have to give all a lot
Speaker 5: of information. I was like pleading my case and he's like, listen,
Speaker 5: if you're into it, we want to send you to
Speaker 5: a voice coach, and they were. And MY first thought
Speaker 5: was like, that's really cool. I've never been to a
Speaker 5: voice coach and I'm totally down to that. But God,
Speaker 5: that sounds so expensive.
Speaker 7: And I think he saw it.
Speaker 5: I don't know if I voiced that concern to him
Speaker 5: or if he just read it in my like physicality,
Speaker 5: and he was like, don't worry. I think we can
Speaker 5: afford it. The show got the show has you.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well we'll pay for it.
Speaker 5: And so I remember that being like one of my concerns.
Speaker 7: But I loved it.
Speaker 5: I loved going to a voice coach and I learned
Speaker 5: how to how to control the tone of my voice
Speaker 5: and my voice more mature and people.
Speaker 7: Could understand me a little bit more.
Speaker 5: And I was I also had some issues with uh,
Speaker 5: with my accent, Like sometimes my accent was like a
Speaker 5: little to New York, believe it or not for the show,
Speaker 5: and the Latino thing would come through and the street
Speaker 5: thing would come through. So like I learned a lot
Speaker 5: from actually being on the show, Like I got really
Speaker 5: an education from the inside out, behind the scenes and
Speaker 5: also in front of the camera.
Speaker 7: And I just.
Speaker 5: Remember being really really excited being told that because Marishka
Speaker 5: had just found out that she was pregnant and she
Speaker 5: was about to want to take a little bit of
Speaker 5: leave of absence because she wanted she wanted to just
Speaker 5: relax and do her pregnancy, that would I be okay
Speaker 5: with kind of like being next to Christopher on a
Speaker 5: couple of more episodes.
Speaker 7: So in the beginning.
Speaker 5: I was just brought on to be on one episode,
Speaker 5: and then it just so happened Marishka was pregnant and
Speaker 5: she was leaving a little bit, and so they gave
Speaker 5: me a little bit of more of an arc and
Speaker 5: I was like, oh my god, so I'm not being fired.
Speaker 5: They were going to give me a voice coach, and
Speaker 5: then he was like, yeah, you know, I were thinking
Speaker 5: of more than a couple, so maybe like three, maybe four,
Speaker 5: depending on how you do and how the story flows.
Speaker 7: And I was like so excited.
Speaker 1: That's so cool.
Speaker 2: You mentioned all the stuff you had to say with
Speaker 2: your lines. How is it memorizing CSU tech lines versus
Speaker 2: just regular Is it a lot harder? And is there
Speaker 2: special tricks you do to remember all the tech stuff?
Speaker 7: Yeah?
Speaker 5: I remember being really challenged by all the information that
Speaker 5: I had to give. And there's a certain rhythm to
Speaker 5: it that you have to have in order to be
Speaker 5: good at that job, you know. And I remember thinking, like,
Speaker 5: you know, my part is important. I'm giving all the
Speaker 5: information on what potentially could have happened in this crime
Speaker 5: scene and how I see it being.
Speaker 7: Done and being and having having.
Speaker 5: To explain it to obviously the detectives and the people
Speaker 5: in the show, but also in a way where it
Speaker 5: also engages in audience. So I remember, even though I
Speaker 5: was still a very young actor, like I remember going
Speaker 5: through like thinking about all.
Speaker 7: Of those things and getting.
Speaker 5: Like really deep in my head and then like trying
Speaker 5: to eternalize it so that I could seem like I
Speaker 5: knew what I was talking about. And I've always had
Speaker 5: to fight kind of like you guys mentioned in the beginning,
Speaker 5: you guys did a Cara was still nice to say
Speaker 5: that I still look at I know we're in a podcast,
Speaker 5: and you know, those opinions might differ for other people,
Speaker 5: but I still do get that my face is kind
Speaker 5: of like sweet.
Speaker 7: And young or whatever.
Speaker 5: And so I remember having to fight against that stereotype
Speaker 5: that even a person that looked like me, maybe young
Speaker 5: or small or cette, could be like powerful and could
Speaker 5: be like could have an important job like in like
Speaker 5: an as you know, like a CSU tech that gave.
Speaker 7: A lot of information.
Speaker 5: And also I was I was I remember even back
Speaker 5: then being kind of like I'm a Latina actress and
Speaker 5: I want to make sure that I sound authentic but
Speaker 5: intelligent and powerful and and go against the stereotype of
Speaker 5: what's mostly given to Latina actresses, and Law and Latter
Speaker 5: was always one of those shows that that kind of
Speaker 5: fought against that and gave you know, latinos a lot
Speaker 5: of really cool roles in you know, powerful positions and
Speaker 5: intelligent things to say, not not just were we weren't.
Speaker 7: Just the criminals.
Speaker 5: We were the lawyers, and we were the cops, and
Speaker 5: we were the people who were trying to be like
Speaker 5: the heroes. So I've always had a lot of respect
Speaker 5: for that, for the shows of that as well.
Speaker 6: Well.
Speaker 4: You definitely accomplished it. I mean I thought your character
Speaker 4: was like, don't mess with this girl. You know, she's
Speaker 4: got shit to do and a apartment full of files
Speaker 4: and she's going through these cases on her own time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you like put Maloney in his place, a stabler
Speaker 2: or whatever like it. Really, I don't know, you guys
Speaker 2: had chemistry. I felt chemistry with you guys.
Speaker 7: Yeah, you know.
Speaker 5: I had a great time with Christopher and both of them,
Speaker 5: but Christopher in particular, I remember when I first when
Speaker 5: I first got the park, going like, oh my god,
Speaker 5: he could be one of these actors that could be
Speaker 5: like either really cool or like mean, he might be mean,
Speaker 5: you know, and how am I going to handle that?
Speaker 7: But he was so cool.
Speaker 5: I remember, in order to get like the nervousness out
Speaker 5: and sort of just relax, I used to go to
Speaker 5: the gym. There was a gym in the studio that
Speaker 5: we were filming at and he was always there, so
Speaker 5: it was kind of away for me. I kind of
Speaker 5: after that, I was like, oh, so he hangs out
Speaker 5: at the gym, okay, So I.
Speaker 8: Would go.
Speaker 1: Not shocking, not shocking.
Speaker 5: I would go to the gym to to sort of
Speaker 5: try to like talk to him, and it works in
Speaker 5: between like our cardio sessions. He would he would be like, so,
Speaker 5: you know, how are you liking it? And I'm like,
Speaker 5: I love it, you know, like just fill out all
Speaker 5: this information. He was like, okay, right, well, let me
Speaker 5: know if I could do anything. And I was like, well,
Speaker 5: And so I would ask him a couple of questions
Speaker 5: about things that you know, I remember maybe not understanding
Speaker 5: or why they wrote something a certain way, and he
Speaker 5: would be and he would explain it to me, and he.
Speaker 7: Was very very nice to me.
Speaker 5: And I remember also like in the scenes that we
Speaker 5: did have together in between takes, sometimes he would be like, Wow,
Speaker 5: that was so good, Paul, like that was that was.
Speaker 7: Actually that was really really cool.
Speaker 5: You know, I really liked the way you did that
Speaker 5: or I didn't expect for you to make that choice
Speaker 5: and it was actually.
Speaker 7: The right choice.
Speaker 5: It was really cool. So he was very complimentary about
Speaker 5: about my scenes with him, and I felt really after that.
Speaker 5: I felt confident and I felt like really really nice.
Speaker 5: So I really do have to say that Christopher was
Speaker 5: one of those people that really made me feel really good. Unfortunately,
Speaker 5: I didn't have scenes with Marrige Graf, i remember correctly,
Speaker 5: but I did see her behind the scenes, like in
Speaker 5: the hair and make up area, and she was very
Speaker 5: very nice to me, and I remember telling her like,
Speaker 5: oh my god, I can't believe I'd get on your
Speaker 5: show and I can't do anything with me. She's like, yeah,
Speaker 5: but you're relieving me.
Speaker 1: You're relieving me alone.
Speaker 5: Really but she was super super like just so dope
Speaker 5: and strong and nice.
Speaker 4: And in this episode you also got to do like
Speaker 4: a couple of scenes with like Finn and Munch where
Speaker 4: they were like kind of maybe trying to, you know,
Speaker 4: disagree with you, and you were like, ah, So I
Speaker 4: liked I liked how your character could stood up to them.
Speaker 4: But inside as a fan where you like, oh my god,
Speaker 4: it's iced tea and mounch like I mean, you know,
Speaker 4: I again.
Speaker 5: I was a super super fan of the show, but
Speaker 5: I grew up in Spanish farleams, so iced tea was
Speaker 5: like that was like another level.
Speaker 7: I bet I grew up listening to.
Speaker 5: Him and and.
Speaker 7: Knowing like his whole thing as a musician.
Speaker 5: But then when he made this whole transition as an
Speaker 5: actor and like totally legit and like you know and
Speaker 5: like a total star, you know, all of in another
Speaker 5: in another level right, like another another total a totally
Speaker 5: different side of who he was. Uh it was. I
Speaker 5: respected that so much.
Speaker 4: Well, he he realized you have to diversify, right, He
Speaker 4: was like, you this rap game might not go on
Speaker 4: forever for I gotta like, you know, and now it's
Speaker 4: like he's twenty years on this hit show, you know.
Speaker 5: And I remember like being really really excited about that
Speaker 5: and totally inspired by that and respecting that whole you know,
Speaker 5: that whole thing. And I was I was totally totally
Speaker 5: like fanning out when I first met him.
Speaker 7: And then what was really cool.
Speaker 8: I'm sitting on set right was like on my Law
Speaker 8: and Order Actor Chair next so ic team, just like
Speaker 8: shooting the breeze in between tapes and who comes to
Speaker 8: visit him?
Speaker 6: Coca, Yes, Lilisa girl with like cleavage hanging out.
Speaker 5: And I was like, yes, I was such a fan
Speaker 5: of hers, and it's so cool. Because of the show,
Speaker 5: I was able to become friends with Coco and like she.
Speaker 7: Was so cute.
Speaker 5: At the time, she was doing like a reality show
Speaker 5: and she was like, listen, I don't have a lot
Speaker 5: of time to really hang out hang out, but if
Speaker 5: you want to like pretend hang out with me, come
Speaker 5: beyond my reality show.
Speaker 7: And I did.
Speaker 5: I was I was on her reality show.
Speaker 4: If you want to come pretend to hang out, that's
Speaker 4: so funny.
Speaker 1: She's like, look, I gotta slot you in where I
Speaker 1: can slot you in.
Speaker 5: And she was like, if you want to hang out
Speaker 5: with me, I'm doing this reality show. And there's actually
Speaker 5: like a scene coming up where I'm like hanging out
Speaker 5: with my girls and I'm gonna have some some drinks.
Speaker 7: They're not going to be pretend.
Speaker 5: We're gonna have some real drinks. And she's like, you
Speaker 5: can be part of the conversation and the drama, or
Speaker 5: you could just be like just hanging out. You're cute,
Speaker 5: just like hang out with me, and I'm like all right,
Speaker 5: And so what I did, I.
Speaker 7: Was just I had drinks with her. There was dancing after,
Speaker 7: there was.
Speaker 5: Like cameras rolling, and there was some drama happening, but
Speaker 5: I wasn't really understanding what the drama was about. So
Speaker 5: I was I'm just there, like I step in my
Speaker 5: drink next week next to Coco and then I'm like
Speaker 5: dancing in the background.
Speaker 4: Oh my god, You're like living our dreams. Paula, I
Speaker 4: don't know. We read about this while you were at SVU.
Speaker 2: You got offered The Shield, right, did you have to
Speaker 2: like make a decision?
Speaker 1: Was that tough? Was that like?
Speaker 2: Was that as dramatic as how the Internet made it seem.
Speaker 5: The Shield was the hustle that I hustled for myself.
Speaker 5: The Shield was another show that I was like completely
Speaker 5: obsessed with because at the time nothing was being shot
Speaker 5: like The Shield. The story, the story of The Shield
Speaker 5: of you know, a cop that's like truly a bad
Speaker 5: person becoming like this anti hero that you want to
Speaker 5: like live through his story and you want to know
Speaker 5: more about had never been done before the way Michael
Speaker 5: Chickos did it, and it was it was really like
Speaker 5: innovative that show, and I really wanted to be on
Speaker 5: that show. And as a fact, and one of my
Speaker 5: problems with the show was like, oh my god, the
Speaker 5: show is about LAPD but there's like not one Latin
Speaker 5: a cap on the show.
Speaker 7: But got for to read and so I remember.
Speaker 5: Telling my agents and my managers like show them my
Speaker 5: tape on that SPU like because they did not even
Speaker 5: want to audition me on the shield. Finally, somebody convinced
Speaker 5: somebody to let casting pre read me.
Speaker 7: Casting pre read me, and.
Speaker 5: She was like, Okay, they will never hire a girl
Speaker 5: like you. You look too soft, you're too pretty, like
Speaker 5: maybe if you put your hair up in a bun.
Speaker 7: Who's here with you?
Speaker 5: And I was like, my husband's waiting for me downstairs
Speaker 5: in the car, and she's like, go get his shirt, Like,
Speaker 5: go put on his shirt, rub everything off of your face,
Speaker 5: and then go in there.
Speaker 7: And the way she said it, I think she.
Speaker 5: Was kind of trying to make me pissed off on purpose.
Speaker 7: Because when I went into the room.
Speaker 5: To finally read for like three, I read for like
Speaker 5: four of the producers and two of the writers. There's
Speaker 5: like five men in that room. I went in there
Speaker 5: like with a chip on my shoulder. I was totally kissed,
Speaker 5: you know, and I did something that you should never
Speaker 5: do on an audition as an actor, which is like
Speaker 5: I basically told.
Speaker 6: Them what was wrong with the show, and this is
Speaker 6: a show on LAPC and you don't have not one
Speaker 6: lat that cop and like I think my whole like
Speaker 6: Spanish Harlem accent was on like three thousand.
Speaker 5: I was like, that is so wrong and that is
Speaker 5: I don't understand that because I love your show.
Speaker 1: And amazing and basically was.
Speaker 7: Like pitching how I should be on the show.
Speaker 5: Like I rambled, and they were like, okay, whatever, Like
Speaker 5: they were looking at me like I was crazy.
Speaker 7: They gave me some copy.
Speaker 5: I gave it my all and I left there thinking
Speaker 5: like they're never going to book me. That was crazy
Speaker 5: what I just did. But they gave me one episode
Speaker 5: and I started as.
Speaker 7: A rookie cop.
Speaker 5: And in the middle of that episode, one of their
Speaker 5: big producers, Scott Brazil, him and Kurt Sutter, basically was like,
Speaker 5: do you want to like stick around for a little
Speaker 5: while and be part of like the Shield Familia, and I.
Speaker 9: Was like, yes, oh my god, Wow, I can't believe
Speaker 9: you just like stood on you just like said what
Speaker 9: you thought and like sold yourself so hard.
Speaker 1: That's like, I think, like ezy Hollywood story.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I basically sold myself to them. And the only
Speaker 5: reason why I got on the Shield, honestly is because
Speaker 5: Law and Order SBU did not ask me to do
Speaker 5: more episodes, because if not, I would have. I mean
Speaker 5: I was in New York, I was home. I would
Speaker 5: have sit home and been on Law and Order. So yeah,
Speaker 5: I don't know what's what's being what was written in the.
Speaker 7: Internet about that whole thing.
Speaker 5: It was honestly just an actor that was out of
Speaker 5: work who was watching a lot of television was like.
Speaker 7: I should be on that show. I should be on
Speaker 7: that show.
Speaker 5: And I kind of hustled myself onto the Shield.
Speaker 4: So I know, right now you're on on My Block,
Speaker 4: which is on Netflix, amazing, and you've been directing on that.
Speaker 4: You directed an episode of that, right, and so what
Speaker 4: else is going on with you?
Speaker 1: Do you have any other like projects?
Speaker 2: Well, hopefully she will be directing next season SVO.
Speaker 1: Yes.
Speaker 4: Hopefully somebody hears this and knows that Paula is on
Speaker 4: the market for directing, so definitely.
Speaker 5: I mean, I know that people are definitely listening to
Speaker 5: Lisa and Kower because this podcast is awesome and you
Speaker 5: guys are amazing.
Speaker 7: So I do think directing.
Speaker 5: On Law and Order SVU is not impossible and would
Speaker 5: be really really cool. I think my character could come
Speaker 5: back and people would really dig that. I think people
Speaker 5: are into nostalgia right now and people really like like
Speaker 5: to know, like what happened and what's their history and
Speaker 5: what happened at couple of years. So I think that
Speaker 5: could be really cool. But the concrete stuff that I
Speaker 5: have coming up is On My Block has a spinoff
Speaker 5: yeah wow, called free Ridge. They announced it before even
Speaker 5: they knew what the last season of On My Block
Speaker 5: would do, So I have a feeling Netflix is really
Speaker 5: into it, and the producers Free Rich, which is the
Speaker 5: spinoff of On My Block, they offered me to direct
Speaker 5: an episode and they have offered me to recur on it.
Speaker 7: So I don't know.
Speaker 5: Maybe yeah, I don't know how many episodes or what
Speaker 5: the story is, but I don't know.
Speaker 7: I'm excited to find out.
Speaker 5: And I have my own superhero guys.
Speaker 1: Oh my god.
Speaker 5: A Luna is a comic book that I co created.
Speaker 5: We have eight books, we have a graphic novel, and
Speaker 5: she is her own video game now on Nintendo Switch
Speaker 5: and Steam and we're coming out on Xbox Oh my
Speaker 5: wow soon PlayStations.
Speaker 4: But yeah, you are like a never You're like a
Speaker 4: non stop like, oh my god, you have so much
Speaker 4: going on.
Speaker 7: Kids, mama got a hustle.
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. She is a dream. I would have
Speaker 1: talked to her all day, so sweet.
Speaker 2: Yes, and we did not include this in what you heard,
Speaker 2: but she is living huge goals, my goals. She is
Speaker 2: by coastal, so that is really exciting. So way to go, Paula.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and she's getting into directing, which I think is cool.
Speaker 1: I mean, not everybody.
Speaker 2: She's a go getter. She's a go getter. I would say,
Speaker 2: aulas a hardcore go getter.
Speaker 4: Yeah, So I mean, you know she's a go getter.
Speaker 4: Paula is, and so is her character Millie. I mean
Speaker 4: working on this case, but I think, like you know
Speaker 4: that these cases are so sad, these unsolved cases, you know,
Speaker 4: like I mean, if we're gonna do a post mornem,
Speaker 4: it's like there's not really Unfortunately, we don't know what
Speaker 4: happened to any of these children, and it I know
Speaker 4: that we are a cab a lot of the times,
Speaker 4: but I think it is nice that some of these
Speaker 4: cops like paid for the grave and worked on it
Speaker 4: their whole lives.
Speaker 2: You know, I mentioned this in the episode, but when
Speaker 2: Karen Kilgaroff told us that like the ones that haunted
Speaker 2: the most are unsolved crimes, that wasn't something I thought about.
Speaker 2: And then after this episode, I'm like, oh, yeah, there
Speaker 2: is something daunting, scary, sad that so many of these
Speaker 2: boys just like no one knows. And then to think
Speaker 2: how many missing kids and disappeared people are out there
Speaker 2: with no clues. It it's scary. Yeah, it's really scary.
Speaker 2: And like with the real case where it's like at
Speaker 2: least they have hope, and that's all that the parents.
Speaker 2: At least they have hope, right and once they have
Speaker 2: the definitive like the mom was like, actually I'd rather have.
Speaker 1: Hope, Like you just actually ruined my life. Yeah.
Speaker 4: Even worse, it's like, have you ever seen that Netflix
Speaker 4: documentary that I think Tim Dillan is obsessed with about
Speaker 4: Johnny Gosh, that's like, whatever happened.
Speaker 1: To Johnny or something like that.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that was like wild because like the mom swears
Speaker 4: that her son came back as an adult and visited her,
Speaker 4: and it's like you you wonder as like was that
Speaker 4: a dream?
Speaker 1: Did that really happen?
Speaker 4: Like, but it's like the hope that parents manifest, you know,
Speaker 4: because it's like, yeah, they have that one day their
Speaker 4: kid's just gonna like knock knock.
Speaker 1: It's like must be. I don't know.
Speaker 4: I can't tell what's worse to like know that your
Speaker 4: child is gone or to just have hope that that
Speaker 4: you live with every day and that pain.
Speaker 2: I don't know, because no matter what you're gonna think
Speaker 2: about your kid. Yeah, like your life's not gonna be good,
Speaker 2: right right, You're gonna have a sad life. You know,
Speaker 2: it's unnatural. It changes you, I think. But I don't know.
Speaker 2: I don't know about the like that Johnny one because
Speaker 2: now I'm thinking, I mean, they found these bodies, they
Speaker 2: don't they never found the five boys.
Speaker 1: I mean I do think that guy it.
Speaker 2: But I also want to become a part of a
Speaker 2: secret society that tries to solve crime, Like can we
Speaker 2: join it?
Speaker 1: Like can we pass a test?
Speaker 2: Can we prove ourselves that like maybe we can maybe
Speaker 2: there is something that we can provide at provide the.
Speaker 4: I will say that this just for everybody. It is
Speaker 4: called who Took Johnny? And it was on Netflix. I
Speaker 4: don't know if it still is, but it was called
Speaker 4: who Took Johnny?
Speaker 2: Why was I saying that was the first? Like milk
Speaker 2: Carton kid? I think that was a part of it.
Speaker 2: And the theories are he's a sex slave for the government,
Speaker 2: you know, like he was kidnapped by human trafficking rings,
Speaker 2: snatched in the day less people. I think it's not well,
Speaker 2: I don't know. I really like when someone this was
Speaker 2: on the internet. I spent too much time on the internet. Well,
Speaker 2: jed your friend when we were out, he was like,
Speaker 2: you don't read, do you? Or something like that. It's
Speaker 2: like I could tell you don't read. He was trying
Speaker 2: to encourage me to read. But something I saw.
Speaker 1: Online about how like in my day.
Speaker 2: No one locked their doors, and it's like, yeah, that's
Speaker 2: why everyone got killed in the sea of these Yeah.
Speaker 1: We just kept our doors open.
Speaker 4: And it's like there were serial killers on every block
Speaker 4: back in the day, Are you kidding?
Speaker 2: Yeah, people were just come on in we'll call insurance
Speaker 2: for you.
Speaker 1: You know, everyone was just letting everyone in.
Speaker 2: And I don't know if these snatchings happen as often
Speaker 2: anymore either, because back even when we were I was
Speaker 2: a child like I was gone from sun up to
Speaker 2: sundown in those streets in a you know, suburb.
Speaker 1: But I was just I was out all day. Roller blades, bic.
Speaker 4: Roller blades, baby Lisa, just fucking taking it to the
Speaker 4: streets and a pair of blades. I love the visual.
Speaker 4: My Christiamagucci rollerblades.
Speaker 1: Amazing.
Speaker 2: They were white, they were so and like turquoise and purple.
Speaker 1: I loved them.
Speaker 2: No, my friends would bicycle and I would always roller
Speaker 2: blade behind. I was a I like rollerblading more. And
Speaker 2: I got into a lot. I crashed my bicycle a lot.
Speaker 2: I was bruised, cut up, falling in bushes, running into cars,
Speaker 2: going over.
Speaker 1: Curbs. I was not good on the.
Speaker 4: Bike interesting, but on blades you were good. And in
Speaker 4: soul cycle I can do.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but a bike no problem.
Speaker 2: Yes, But if that's what someone if that's what's maybe
Speaker 2: stopping someone from not doing soul cycle or something. But yeah,
Speaker 2: bicycle in the and then I made some money A
Speaker 2: few years ago. Whatever I bought, like a four hundred
Speaker 2: dollars bike. I've wrote it maybe eight times. It's still
Speaker 2: in my friend's home. She's like, so do you want
Speaker 2: to wait? Who I want to bike? If it was
Speaker 2: in Lading, was in New York? Sorry, it was in
Speaker 2: New York because I moved to Crown Heights like a
Speaker 2: fucking idiot, away from every train. Everything I wanted in
Speaker 2: an apartment. This apartment didn't have, and I went, not.
Speaker 1: Only will I take it, I'll pay for it a
Speaker 1: year in advance.
Speaker 2: Yes, it's like, is it close to the trains? Absolutely not.
Speaker 2: Is it close to a lot of fun stores and
Speaker 2: coffee shops?
Speaker 1: Absolutely not? Like nothing. Is it close to shows? No?
Speaker 1: Is it close to your friends? Well, i'd be safe
Speaker 1: being carbon monoxide poisoned. No.
Speaker 2: No, Like it was so fucking wild. I don't know
Speaker 2: how we got ye o New York, my bicycle. Whatever
Speaker 2: I wrote it, Maybe I'm glad you didn't get snatched
Speaker 2: off the streets.
Speaker 4: I have a feeling that they can, they can spot
Speaker 4: a mouthy child that you were probably gonna be more
Speaker 4: trouble than you were worth. I think that's what they say.
Speaker 2: No, I love that I don't know if this was
Speaker 2: a real story or not, but there was a viral
Speaker 2: story that a boy kept like singing hymns and praying
Speaker 2: and so they let him go because he was so annoying.
Speaker 2: They're like, we don't want this Jesus fe.
Speaker 1: Oh my god.
Speaker 4: That reminds me of what hot American summer where they're
Speaker 4: like driving the kids and the kids just being so
Speaker 4: annoying they just roll them out of the van while
Speaker 4: they're driving. All right, let's move on to our what
Speaker 4: would Sister Peg do?
Speaker 1: Segment?
Speaker 4: Uh. This is our weekly segment where we direct you
Speaker 4: guys towards an organization, book, article, some kind of resource
Speaker 4: to give you more info on what we touched on
Speaker 4: in today's episode. And this week, Lisa and I found
Speaker 4: this organization that is exactly what Lisa is talking about
Speaker 4: that she wished we could be a part of, which
Speaker 4: is called the Cold Case Foundation. It's www dot Coldcasefoundation
Speaker 4: dot org and they are a group of independent experts
Speaker 4: with backgrounds and everything from forensics to active and retired
Speaker 4: law enforcement.
Speaker 1: It sounds a lot like Liza pointed this out.
Speaker 4: It sounds a lot like the group that Chester Lake
Speaker 4: was involved in in that one episode where he kept
Speaker 4: going to Philly to like work with a cold case group.
Speaker 4: And yeah, they're dedicated to solving cold cases and they
Speaker 4: have easy to fill out web form where you can
Speaker 4: submit information about cold cases and their services are completely
Speaker 4: free of charge. There's also ways you can sort of
Speaker 4: help if you're not a person that's got law enforcement
Speaker 4: or forensic experience. So if you want to go check
Speaker 4: that out, that's ww dot Coldcasefoundation dot org.
Speaker 1: Amazing.
Speaker 2: Thank you and if you're listening Cold Case Foundation, we
Speaker 2: are willing, active, ready fail, we will, we are available.
Speaker 1: Thank you for I don't know, I don't have a cavagary.
Speaker 2: I'm kind of careless, but I can help solve some crimes.
Speaker 2: Next week we're going to a new season, current season,
Speaker 2: exciting for all of us. We're doing one more Tale
Speaker 2: of Two Victims, season twenty three, episode four, watch on
Speaker 2: Hulu current season.
Speaker 4: Yeah, if you have cable, you might be able to
Speaker 4: just watch this one on like Spectrum on demand because
Speaker 4: it's from the current season.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so that's always exciting when we do it. Not
Speaker 2: exciting to say the full name of the episode over
Speaker 2: and over and type it out.
Speaker 4: We like you, Wren I mean, though, the more we
Speaker 4: get into it, you know, I'm not into this like
Speaker 4: twenty Things. I hate it anyway, Happy twenty twenty two.
Speaker 4: We hope you guys are going had an amazing New
Speaker 4: Year's and are having a prosperous twenty twenty two so far,
Speaker 4: and we'll see you next week.
Speaker 1: That's Messed Up is an Exactly Right production.
Speaker 4: If you have compliments you'd like to give us, or
Speaker 4: episodes you'd like us to cover, shoot us an email
Speaker 4: at thots Messed Up Pod at gmail dot com.
Speaker 2: Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod
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Speaker 2: personally at Kara Clank and at Glitter Cheese.
Speaker 4: As always, please see our show notes for sources and
Speaker 4: more information.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much to our producer an Elise Nelson
Speaker 2: and to our mixing engineer ryo Bound, and to Henry
Speaker 2: Kaperski for our theme song.
Speaker 1: And to Carly gen Andrews for our artwork.
Speaker 4: Thank you to our executive producers Georgia Hardstar, Karen Kilgareff,
Speaker 4: Daniel Kramer, and everyone at Exactly Right Media.
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