Speaker 1: Hey, this is Matt Miller. You listen to me on
Speaker 1: the Tape podcast with Paul Sweeney. I've got a new
Speaker 1: podcast with my friend Hannah Elliott. She's the car reviewer
Speaker 1: from Bloomberg Pursuits. We call it Hot Pursuit. I'm gonna
Speaker 1: drop a little sample from the Hot Pursuit podcast here.
Speaker 1: Take a listen. If you like it, go to the
Speaker 1: Hot Pursuit page and subscribe. You can find it on Apple,
Speaker 1: on Spotify, or anywhere you get your podcasts. I'm Matt
Speaker 1: Miller and.
Speaker 2: I'm Hannah Elliott, and this is Hot Pursuit.
Speaker 1: All right. Today on the show, the headline story is
Speaker 1: gonna be the Portie nine to eleven st to Anadro
Speaker 1: last week, so she's gonna tell us all about it.
Speaker 1: We're also gonna talk about the Tesla recalls, which I
Speaker 1: think are fascinating for a couple of reasons. I normally
Speaker 1: think recalls get too much attention. Yeah, but this one
Speaker 1: I think is really interesting. And because it's kind of
Speaker 1: Tesla they made the cyber truck, it ties into the
Speaker 1: lightning story. The Ford lightning story, I think is fascinating.
Speaker 1: So we're going to talk about that with the Tesla story.
Speaker 1: And finally we're going to talk about the seeming slowdown
Speaker 1: of ev demand is told through the Jili story that
Speaker 1: a great writer for US in Berlin wrote an opinion
Speaker 1: piece about Chris Bryant is always on top of these
Speaker 1: car stories for opinion from a financial perspective. And also
Speaker 1: Jilly has built this massive empire that I didn't some
Speaker 1: of them. I didn't even know about it.
Speaker 2: I know, it's really interesting.
Speaker 1: So a Chinese billionaire owns at least one brand that
Speaker 1: you probably want because he has so many. So let's
Speaker 1: kick it off with the nine to eleven story though, Hannah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, here's the top note, here's the headline.
Speaker 1: How many different nine elevens are there? By the way, there.
Speaker 2: Are currently twenty six their twenty six versions of the
Speaker 2: nine to ninety two, the current current generation.
Speaker 1: So many levels of trim it's insane.
Speaker 2: I know, it's really difficult to keep straight. There are
Speaker 2: twenty six for sale, and there are a couple others
Speaker 2: that are not currently available but also in the same generation,
Speaker 2: so it's quite a lot. And it is like, you know,
Speaker 2: we've spoken about the st Obviously I was a little
Speaker 2: bit skeptical, like, do we really need another one. It's
Speaker 2: not even based on a real car that existed, but it.
Speaker 1: Still is at the top. It's exactly the top.
Speaker 2: Yes, this is the three ninety two thousand dollars nine
Speaker 2: to eleven. It's extremely lightweight, and really, here's what you
Speaker 2: need to know. I loved it, and I was skeptical
Speaker 2: because of all the reasons we're discussing, like, we don't
Speaker 2: need another one, it's gonna be just like all the rest,
Speaker 2: why do you need another of this? And then that
Speaker 2: I loved it. It was so fun.
Speaker 1: I mean, even if we don't need something, yes, even
Speaker 1: if we don't need this nine to eleven, but it's
Speaker 1: one of the best nine to elevens Portia has ever built.
Speaker 1: I'm gonna guess after you drive it, you're gonna love it.
Speaker 2: Yes, but I can say that I've driven, you know,
Speaker 2: most of the variants. I haven't driven all twenty six
Speaker 2: of them. But you know, if you compare it to
Speaker 2: a GT three or like a nine to nine to
Speaker 2: two Turbos, I would say still that I would prefer
Speaker 2: this at least over the GT three and even the
Speaker 2: GT three touring. And there are a couple of reasons
Speaker 2: for that. The thing that I think anyone who gets
Speaker 2: in the car will notice right away is that it's
Speaker 2: a manual, obviously, but it's got a super short throw
Speaker 2: on the shifter, so it's six gears, super short, super quick,
Speaker 2: super punchy. It just feels a lot more engaging when
Speaker 2: you drive it, if that's what you want. But it's
Speaker 2: not so raw that it feels like a track car.
Speaker 2: This is not a track car. Doesn't come with a
Speaker 2: roll cage.
Speaker 1: It's like a sweet spot.
Speaker 2: That's the thing. It is the sweet spot, because I
Speaker 2: do think the GT three it's honestly best left on
Speaker 2: the track. I think I will. I don't want to
Speaker 2: drive a GT three every day all day. It's just
Speaker 2: like even a touring I wouldn't want to right exactly.
Speaker 2: But the the ST really it feels analog, and I
Speaker 2: don't mean that in a bad way. I mean it
Speaker 2: you feel that you're engaged with the car. It's a
Speaker 2: little bit louder than a GT three. I actually was
Speaker 2: in a lead car for a moment that was a
Speaker 2: GT three, and then got back in the ST and
Speaker 2: it was noticeable right away that the ST is a
Speaker 2: louder car.
Speaker 1: By the way. That's that's what you want. That's what
Speaker 1: the that's what the Weekend Warrior wants exactly. And on
Speaker 1: a track, a lot of times there are there are noise.
Speaker 2: Limits exactly exactly.
Speaker 1: I know for motorcycles on a track, people have to
Speaker 1: put in noise dB killers.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And but on the street, if I'm riding through Westchester,
Speaker 1: I want it to be as loud as I can.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And and I don't even think that was on purpose.
Speaker 2: That's a byproduct of the fact that they really did
Speaker 2: to try to lighten it up quite a bit. Even
Speaker 2: they took they put in special lightweight carpet that saved
Speaker 2: four pounds. And you know, obviously carpeting helps muffle sounds,
Speaker 2: so some of just a natural u the result of
Speaker 2: making the car lighter.
Speaker 1: There's no sound deadening material exactly.
Speaker 2: There's not in the.
Speaker 1: GT three either, but they probably have purposely made the
Speaker 1: exhaust choir or to meet noise restrictions, whereas with this
Speaker 1: they have flow cats and probably like basically straight pipes on.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And man, I was in that car for like
Speaker 2: eight It was a very long day of We started
Speaker 2: in Napa and then drove through the Redwoods up the coast,
Speaker 2: up the one oh one ended up in Mendocino, so
Speaker 2: there were and it was partially rainy that we saw
Speaker 2: sun so there was a good variety of terrain in
Speaker 2: a way, I do think. And we were even on
Speaker 2: the interstate for a while too. I do think. It's
Speaker 2: sometimes when you are on a straight interstate you almost
Speaker 2: want a seventh gear. It's really fun. On curvy, windy roads,
Speaker 2: you end up shifting through the gears really quickly. If
Speaker 2: you don't like that, if you kind of prefer a
Speaker 2: longer gear, this is not the car for you. This
Speaker 2: is one that you're going to be going up and
Speaker 2: down a lot. If you're just going to be driving
Speaker 2: on interstate most of the time, you're going to want
Speaker 2: a seventh gear, and this car doesn't have it.
Speaker 1: So you show the GT three as well. The funny
Speaker 1: thing is, in my career I had a nine to
Speaker 1: nine to one one S and I always felt like,
Speaker 1: why do I have the seventh gear? I don't need this.
Speaker 1: But then my buddy I would always drive his GT
Speaker 1: three touring and I would be like, you need a seton.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well that's where you really feel it. I mean,
Speaker 2: it kind of depends on what kind of driving you
Speaker 2: want to do. The other thing that I thought was
Speaker 2: interesting was the fact that it comes with a watch.
Speaker 2: I know you're a watch guy. This is the accompanying
Speaker 2: thirteen thousand dollars Porsche design watch that goes with the
Speaker 2: car that you cannot get unless you also take a car. Now,
Speaker 2: to me, the watch is very cheesy.
Speaker 1: But a lot of people don't like Porsche design. It's
Speaker 1: pretty specific.
Speaker 2: It's very specific.
Speaker 1: It reminds me of the Shprockets skit on SNL that
Speaker 1: they used to do. Yeah, it's touch my monkey.
Speaker 2: I'm not familiar with that one. I must say, I
Speaker 2: must not have been born yet. Yeah. The thing is,
Speaker 2: I've heard some you know, rumblings that dealers are saying, well,
Speaker 2: you can't get an allocation unless you commit to also
Speaker 2: buy the watch. I don't know if that's true, yeah,
Speaker 2: or just you know, some pressure or leaning on people
Speaker 2: to take the watch too.
Speaker 1: Strange.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, which would kind of feel like an
Speaker 2: upsell a bit, right, But I have to say, uh,
Speaker 2: it's such a fun car. I'm trying to think of
Speaker 2: what else. Oh, how it looks it really does? You know?
Speaker 2: There's a channeled roof on it. There is a gurney
Speaker 2: flap on the end, but it's real small. I do
Speaker 2: like that it doesn't have a huge spoiler, the air
Speaker 2: intake on the front and side. It looks specific and
Speaker 2: unique but not flashy, which I thought was really cool.
Speaker 2: I was in the Ruby Stone or Ruby Star, depending
Speaker 2: on how you want to say it.
Speaker 1: Red.
Speaker 2: Oh, it's a super cool color.
Speaker 1: I do not like that color really. Oh. I had
Speaker 1: the Carera Tea in that color.
Speaker 2: That car just that color alone, if you try to
Speaker 2: resell it, it pushes the value up.
Speaker 1: It's like a Barbie, a little bit slightly dark.
Speaker 2: It's a raspberry. It's a raspberry pink and a pinstripe
Speaker 2: in tier, which sounds really bad on paper. But it
Speaker 2: did look kind of cool.
Speaker 1: But you know what, do you know what it is?
Speaker 1: Part of this, I think is that I was just
Speaker 1: at lunch with the guys who run Nikam Auctions and
Speaker 1: they do obviously they're doing a massive event in Kiss
Speaker 1: Kiss Emi at the beginning of January, forty five hundred
Speaker 1: cars and a lot of it's American muscle, right. They
Speaker 1: do have some Ferraris, but it's mostly American muscle. And
Speaker 1: I asked them about you know, recent model cars that
Speaker 1: sell well and also restromods that do well, and obviously
Speaker 1: something like a four GT is going to sell well.
Speaker 1: And they said like a Singer, a Singer will just
Speaker 1: off the charts, right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's unbelievable.
Speaker 1: They than Porsa's leaving so much money on the table,
Speaker 1: which is why they have to do like the nine
Speaker 1: to eleven R or the STV, because this is they're
Speaker 1: doing Singer before Singer gets a hold of it.
Speaker 2: Kind of yeah, I mean I know that they do
Speaker 2: watch Singer very closely and have observed that exact effect,
Speaker 2: which reminds me of you know, the special Heritage livery
Speaker 2: with the number sixty three on the side.
Speaker 1: Which I is that sixty three So that was the.
Speaker 2: First year of the nine to eleven. Of course they're
Speaker 2: going to make nineteen hundred and sixty three of them.
Speaker 2: But my point with this package is that alone is
Speaker 2: a twenty thousand dollars upgrade as well. So to your point, Matt,
Speaker 2: they're just you know, Porsia is offering more and more
Speaker 2: options to make the cars super specific to yourself and
Speaker 2: spend more money.
Speaker 1: By the way, Lamborghini also uses the sixty three some
Speaker 1: of their special liveries. And that's because it was the
Speaker 1: year they showed their.
Speaker 2: First sports car, so I mean glory days.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess sixty three was a good year. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Speaking of that, there's going to be a sixty three
Speaker 1: Ferrari at the Kissimi Auction Ferris Bueller car that's going
Speaker 1: to go for sixteen to eighteen. There's a sixty seven
Speaker 1: two seventy five Spider that's going to go for they
Speaker 1: think twenty five or more. And there's a sixty four
Speaker 1: to two seventy five GTV that they think will go
Speaker 1: for more than thirty five.
Speaker 2: Where are they expecting these buyers to come from, because
Speaker 2: let's be honest, Mikam Auctions are not known for their
Speaker 2: Ferrari sales. They do volume Americans.
Speaker 1: You'll have ten Ferraris that they say are worth over
Speaker 1: one hundred million dollars. They say, but I don't know
Speaker 1: where the you know, I guess if you want this
Speaker 1: kind of Ferrari, you don't really care as much who's
Speaker 1: selling it, right, I think we do. If you're in
Speaker 1: the market for this, don't you you know who it's
Speaker 1: coming from? So like say, you're I don't know David Lee,
Speaker 1: and you know that jay Leno is selling his ferrari,
Speaker 1: You're going to go buy it from him, whether he
Speaker 1: does it through bottoms or true.
Speaker 2: This, but I think very significantly this isn't jay Leno's ferrari.
Speaker 2: I think what I mean. What I mean is you
Speaker 2: know that Cowliborough Ferrari would not be sold at Amkam auction.
Speaker 2: And this is not a mark against Meka met All.
Speaker 2: I just think in general, and I'm not familiar with
Speaker 2: the cars that they told. Yeah, if you do have that,
Speaker 2: if you do have really that caliber ferrari, you would
Speaker 2: probably tend to go to Southerb's or Gooding.
Speaker 1: They know that too.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not a knock on them at all. People
Speaker 2: have specialties.
Speaker 1: Well, I think they might be trying to move into
Speaker 1: that area because they're so focused. They will be so
Speaker 1: focused on the ferraris. Anyway, I don't want to get
Speaker 1: too drawn away from the ST. I think it's so
Speaker 1: cool that they're making this, which most people aren't going
Speaker 1: to be able to afford it. Even people who can
Speaker 1: go pick up a nine to eleven aren't going to
Speaker 1: be able to really afford or make financial sense of
Speaker 1: the ST. But you have to have something in that
Speaker 1: price area because singers are only a couple hundred grand more, right,
Speaker 1: and then it's even cooler and even more exclusive. My
Speaker 1: favorite of all of the different I guess trim level
Speaker 1: would be because I live here in New York, and
Speaker 1: I don't know how the roads are in LA, but
Speaker 1: they're bad here, really bad. Eno. The the car I
Speaker 1: think is so great, but I just wish instead of
Speaker 1: the turbocharged three Leader they would put the same motor
Speaker 1: that they use in the GT three or in this.
Speaker 1: And I don't know why, maybe it's you know what.
Speaker 2: This is another thing I wanted to say about the ST.
Speaker 2: This four Leader engine is the same one that they've
Speaker 2: had for over a decade that they've used, and you know,
Speaker 2: every year they're getting incremental bits more power out of it,
Speaker 2: you know, five percent here and there.
Speaker 1: But how much how much does the ST.
Speaker 2: I think it's five to eighteen. But I do wonder
Speaker 2: is this sort of the topping out of what they
Speaker 2: can do on that particular four Leader, especially with the missions,
Speaker 2: because this, you know, I don't see big jumps and
Speaker 2: what they're getting out of that power plant in general,
Speaker 2: but the engine specifically, So that was something you make they.
Speaker 1: Do ten to make like at the end of a
Speaker 1: generation of cars, they'll make like the Crowning Glory exactly.
Speaker 2: Yes, this feels a little bit like that, which interesting,
Speaker 2: which yeah, And then that now makes me think, you know,
Speaker 2: we've talked a little bit about what is the car
Speaker 2: market going to be for internal combustion cars. If at
Speaker 2: some point you can't really buy them newes, does that
Speaker 2: make them valuable? And yet again this plays into your
Speaker 2: whole plan with some of the cars that you want
Speaker 2: to get.
Speaker 1: Right like the BMW. I want to get the last
Speaker 1: V twelve they made, the seven sixty. And by the way,
Speaker 1: my wife is like on board.
Speaker 2: Again, oh great, thank god.
Speaker 1: I think I'm moving in that direction. And really, and
Speaker 1: that's one that's like my Dodge Challenger with a six
Speaker 1: point four liter V eight that's going to be very
Speaker 1: much not made anymore. But they sell fifty thousand of
Speaker 1: those a year. I don't think it's going to appreciate
Speaker 1: in value. No, probably not, But the twelve cylinder BMW
Speaker 1: maybe because they don't make that many of them. On
Speaker 1: the other hand, I've looked back at previous generations of
Speaker 1: the seven series, the V twelves and you can pick
Speaker 1: them up for like ten or fifteen thousand.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean even nineteen hundred and sixty three as
Speaker 2: a production run, it's not that rare. Going back to
Speaker 2: the Ferraris, you know, when there are two or three
Speaker 2: or four of them that were ever made, or even
Speaker 2: one hundred. You know they're gonna make two hundred of
Speaker 2: the Bagatti Sharon whatever, right, you know, that's actual rarity.
Speaker 2: But almost two thousand of something to me isn't ultra rare.
Speaker 1: No, not at all.
Speaker 2: It's limited, but it's not ultra rare. And I did
Speaker 2: ask Porsche, are you guys sold out? You know, what
Speaker 2: are the allocations looking like? And the answer was, you know,
Speaker 2: it's a bit of a rolling thing. And the answer.
Speaker 1: Out right because if they were sold out, they would say, yeah,
Speaker 1: we sold out, I think after we announced it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, if you want, if you want one, nineteen hundred and.
Speaker 1: Sixty three is a lot. I feel like a limited
Speaker 1: edition normally, and in the motorcycle world it's usually like
Speaker 1: four hundred, right, you know, right, and some times they'll
Speaker 1: make like fifty. Yeah. You know, if Lamborghini puts out
Speaker 1: a limited edition, they'll have like five, yeah, or the
Speaker 1: rolls Royce share. Wasn't there like a thirty milli dollar
Speaker 1: rolls raced like Jason, Yes, a boat or something.
Speaker 2: Yes, there's like the boat tail, the droptail, the and
Speaker 2: the other one.
Speaker 1: By the way, I brought this also, I brought up
Speaker 1: with the Meekham guys because I'm like, you know, Hannah's
Speaker 1: always talking about the sixty million dollars for ours, and
Speaker 1: there's never a sixty million dollar kudah.
Speaker 2: And they say, yeah, good what they say.
Speaker 1: They said, true, but there are a lot of three
Speaker 1: or four million dollar kudahs. And remember that they made
Speaker 1: a one hundred thousand of those.
Speaker 2: They made two, so good, that's a good argument. Actually,
Speaker 2: So why are those ones in particular so expensive when
Speaker 2: there's so many, Well.
Speaker 1: They're different trim levels that make it like one of
Speaker 1: one or okay three, Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2: Were those after aftermarket or those are phono factory factory
Speaker 2: trim level factory.
Speaker 1: Okay, it's the rest of them. Ods don't go for
Speaker 1: that much unless it's a singer, right, unless it's somebody
Speaker 1: who really knows what she or he is doing. Let's
Speaker 1: talk about Tesla's. So there's recalls all the time, every
Speaker 1: car make retails recalls, and Bloomberg goes crazy and flash
Speaker 1: his headline and the stock will move on the day
Speaker 1: because investors have no idea that it's a common thing.
Speaker 1: But this Tesla recall, I think is more interesting than
Speaker 1: the traditional Like there's a screw loose on your right rear,
Speaker 1: you know, uh, break out.
Speaker 2: The steering wheel might come off at any moment in time.
Speaker 1: So this is what they're they're autopilot driving feature, which
Speaker 1: they've touted and pushed so much. I think they charge
Speaker 1: extra for it on certain cars as well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's not even there like driver level two.
Speaker 2: It's not even they're autonomous, it's not it's not even
Speaker 2: like close to what Mercedes has done for us.
Speaker 1: But they've had to fix it because Nitsa has done
Speaker 1: years long investigation on whether they whether or not they've
Speaker 1: done enough to ensure the driver is paying attention. And
Speaker 1: I guess Nitsa has decided they don't have they haven't
Speaker 1: done that, and now Tesla's doing this recall. But I
Speaker 1: think it's so cool because it's a huge recall, right,
Speaker 1: isn't it two million? Two million cars?
Speaker 2: Million cars?
Speaker 1: Okay, I think it's so cool. Because usually a recall
Speaker 1: is a giant pain in the butt for the consumer
Speaker 1: the dealer, because the dealer this is over the air.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's cool. I mean I will, I will one
Speaker 2: hundred percent give Tesla that. That's great. Can you imagine
Speaker 2: the pandemonium people I didn't go down to the dealership.
Speaker 1: Usually what happens if people don't do it.
Speaker 2: I mean, LA would shut down because half of LA
Speaker 2: is Tesla's so which would be kind of great because
Speaker 2: then traffic would be a lot better.
Speaker 1: Also, this is a recall that I don't want as
Speaker 1: a teslowner. Why do I want something that's going to
Speaker 1: make me pay attention more? It's going to ding more, Well,
Speaker 1: it's going to flash more.
Speaker 2: I guess there is there no consequence for not having
Speaker 2: your car for not I know you have to actually
Speaker 2: opt in push the button on the screen that accepts the.
Speaker 1: Right, but you have to have your fingers, your hands
Speaker 1: on the wheel, and if you take your hands off
Speaker 1: the wheel for too long, most systems realize that and
Speaker 1: will say like, okay, auto pilot is off.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 1: I don't know specifically how it works in the Tesla,
Speaker 1: but what they want to do is like make it
Speaker 1: harder for you to keep the system.
Speaker 2: I understand that. I mean, in order to accept the
Speaker 2: software update for the recall, you do have to actually
Speaker 2: push a button to accept and to initiate and accept
Speaker 2: the recall. So if you don't do that, what's the
Speaker 2: If you don't do.
Speaker 1: That, then you can't get any updates.
Speaker 2: But after that without having and eventually it's like your
Speaker 2: cell phone.
Speaker 1: Right, So exactly, it's like a new iOS because.
Speaker 2: I'm like many updates behind on my cell phone, right,
Speaker 2: to be honest.
Speaker 1: And you know that when you do the update, like
Speaker 1: your alarm won't go off.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, it ruins everything. It ruins everything. That's why
Speaker 2: I haven't done it.
Speaker 1: Right, But you have to eventually because you want.
Speaker 2: Because and then emoji start looking weird and that bugs me.
Speaker 1: So yeah, So this recall I think is mildly interesting
Speaker 1: because of that, but.
Speaker 2: It is, and I will say just on that topic,
Speaker 2: it's interesting because Tesla makes such a big deal about
Speaker 2: this kind of technology, and like the very thing that
Speaker 2: they always brag about is the thing that they're now
Speaker 2: having to adjust.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 2: So that's like because in the end, you're right, honestly,
Speaker 2: it's not a big deal. You just do the software
Speaker 2: upday and then it's fine. But it is kind of
Speaker 2: a big deal because there this is like one of
Speaker 2: their main selling points about how amazing.
Speaker 1: Also, I hesitate to, by the way, I hesitate to
Speaker 1: say anything bad about Tesla's for two reasons. Number One,
Speaker 1: most importantly, I don't really know very much about Tesla's.
Speaker 1: I haven't driven very many and I have definitely not
Speaker 1: spent time with really anybody who's who's obsessed, So I
Speaker 1: don't know much.
Speaker 2: Well, we should, Tesla, if you're listening, send us something.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we really should. Yeah. Number two, I hesitate say
Speaker 1: anything because they're so passionate, right.
Speaker 2: Tesla, Well, I don't know if that's the word I
Speaker 2: would use. I would say, you don't want to get
Speaker 2: docsed right, and you don't want the cult members coming
Speaker 2: after you, because you've I have experienced some of that myself,
Speaker 2: and it there is something primal of the Tesla enthusiast,
Speaker 2: and I use that word generously where if you dare
Speaker 2: to say something critical about a Tesla vehicle, it's as
Speaker 2: if you've questioned their identity, their manhood. They're very intelligence
Speaker 2: as human, it's and the response is visceral and way
Speaker 2: out of proportion to whatever perceived infractions has happened, and
Speaker 2: that to me is a bit weird.
Speaker 1: It is, but that is how it is, which is
Speaker 1: why I would Otherwise I would say I think BMW
Speaker 1: has a much better self driving system, but I'm not
Speaker 1: gonna say that because they'll kill me. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Well, it's just you and me talking, so don't worry.
Speaker 1: I was talking to CEO of the North American CEO
Speaker 1: of BMW a couple of days ago, and he was like, yo,
Speaker 1: I take my hands off the wheel, right. The only
Speaker 1: thing I have to be doing is watching Yeah.
Speaker 2: Of course, of course that's Level three that they have.
Speaker 2: BMW has that in Germany currently, Mercedes has it in
Speaker 2: the United States. I've driven it, I've used Level three.
Speaker 2: It's wonderful. You can watch video, it's fantastic, it's very relaxing.
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, I think that's interesting. But I'm sure that Tesla.
Speaker 1: I just don't know enough about Tesla's systems because I'm
Speaker 1: sure you can cheat them as well. Otherwise people wouldn't
Speaker 1: be able to sleep, of course, and have horrible accidents.
Speaker 1: By the way, then this investigation is because of at
Speaker 1: least fifty accidents that they say, or caused by autopilot.
Speaker 1: That's a little bit scary, right, You shifted to autopilot
Speaker 1: with no hesitation at all in other cars.
Speaker 2: I don't even use cruise control, if I'm honest, I
Speaker 2: I but yes, when I'm forced to. If I'm in
Speaker 2: a press car and I need to actually try something
Speaker 2: or test something, I don't. I'm not worried. I'm not
Speaker 2: worried because I feel that you can override it. But
Speaker 2: I don't even like the nannies that keep you in
Speaker 2: your lane, you know, they just to me it's actually
Speaker 2: less safe because when I need to make a quick
Speaker 2: move and I'm feeling resistance on the steering wheel or
Speaker 2: pre breaking, it feels like you're out of control of
Speaker 2: the car, and that's not a good feeling. As a driver.
Speaker 2: I want to feel like I'm in control.
Speaker 1: I mean, I only use it on long autobond drives.
Speaker 1: I'll set it and forget it, and or if I
Speaker 1: were doing cross country drive in the US, but if
Speaker 1: I have my wife and kids in the car. I
Speaker 1: was in the Escalade V and I had my wife
Speaker 1: and baby in the back, and of course it has supercrews.
Speaker 2: Supercrew Yes, I like I love it.
Speaker 1: But my wife's like, no, no, no, she doesn't want you.
Speaker 2: Oh. Interesting, Well, I remember I used Supercrew's last in
Speaker 2: the Electric Hummer, and it made me miss my exit
Speaker 2: and get off because I was so relaxed that I
Speaker 2: just like, I didn't get off the freeway and it
Speaker 2: was and I was like, oh, but it's for me.
Speaker 2: It's scary how quickly I get very relaxed.
Speaker 1: You think that stuff I miss exits when I'm paying attention. Yeah,
Speaker 1: let's talk about the Ford Lightning production cut, because I
Speaker 1: think this is the most interesting story in a long
Speaker 1: time in the automotive sort of industry, because it's just
Speaker 1: one more sign that there's not as much EV demand
Speaker 1: as we may have thought there was going to be.
Speaker 1: Ford was going to lose three billion on EV's this year.
Speaker 1: Then they said they're going to lose four and a
Speaker 1: half billion on EV this EV's this year. The Lightning
Speaker 1: was you know, there electric f one fifty. There were
Speaker 1: hundreds of thousands of reservations for it, right.
Speaker 2: Well, it's the best selling F one fifty is the
Speaker 2: best selling car.
Speaker 1: You know, you would just would have thought, you know,
Speaker 1: when I heard they're going to cut production in half,
Speaker 1: from thirty two hundred a week to sixteen hundred a week.
Speaker 1: I thought, but surely there are people that are waiting
Speaker 1: like two years to get it. I don't.
Speaker 2: It doesn't and honestly, to me, doesn't make sense. And
Speaker 2: then you know, I see the executive saying we're not worried.
Speaker 2: We're just we're adjusting to output and demand. It kind
Speaker 2: of doesn't make sense. I don't really believe them when
Speaker 2: they say this is this is just a natural adjustment
Speaker 2: and we're not worried, especially when Jim Farley has said
Speaker 2: he wants to focus on ice and hybrids for the
Speaker 2: four trucks.
Speaker 1: Yeah, righting on the wall looks so smart right now,
Speaker 1: and everybody else knows to do evs in a major,
Speaker 1: major crazy way, and toylets like now, I'll stick with our.
Speaker 2: No. And I know I've been like very sort of
Speaker 2: hybrids are not the way in this in our podcasting
Speaker 2: relationships since day one. But I admit, I do admit
Speaker 2: I'm slowly kind of seeing, Wow, I'm seeing. It's not
Speaker 2: like I have an opinion either way, but what I'm
Speaker 2: observing is maybe hybrids are coming back around.
Speaker 1: I have an opinion hybrids are the way forward. It's
Speaker 1: so smacky on the face obvious. If you want to
Speaker 1: be green around town, you just leave it on the
Speaker 1: battery power only, and then when you're doing a real trip,
Speaker 1: there's no need for range anxiety because you have a motor.
Speaker 1: It makes total sense to me.
Speaker 2: But they're heavy. They're heavy. They're heavy.
Speaker 1: I like a heavy car. I like a heavy bike.
Speaker 1: There's a place in my life for light vehicles. My
Speaker 1: neighbor has an M two. I love to cane it
Speaker 1: around the Bronx River Park.
Speaker 2: Great looking car, Yeah, they're.
Speaker 1: Great, But I like a big heavy cruiser, like a
Speaker 1: land yacht that I can pile it. I mean, I
Speaker 1: had a nine to eleven, but also really enjoyed driving
Speaker 1: my G class for a while.
Speaker 2: Oh we should discuss I didn't. I had forgotten you
Speaker 2: how to g wagon.
Speaker 1: Yeah it was at year and what it was the
Speaker 1: culmination of like forty years of wanting.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's so cool.
Speaker 1: I got a twenty twenty G five hundred and emerald green.
Speaker 2: This was Berlin. Yes, so cool. That is nice. I
Speaker 2: have just such an icon. I could talk about that forever.
Speaker 2: It's so unapologetic. It's a diamond.
Speaker 1: I also think the color emerald green, it's tamarocked Groen.
Speaker 1: It's so great because everybody thinks it's black until it's
Speaker 1: a very sunny day. Yeah, and then they realize No.
Speaker 1: My point is, hybrids are the way forward. I've been
Speaker 1: saying forever. Now. I talked to Keith Naughton, our Ford
Speaker 1: reporter in Detroit. He told me the time to turn
Speaker 1: around or whatever, the metric that measures how long a
Speaker 1: car sits on a dealer's lot before it selfs uh huh.
Speaker 1: In full evs it's fifty one days. Regular cars, ice
Speaker 1: engines forty three days. Hybrid's eighteen.
Speaker 2: Oh wow. Interesting.
Speaker 1: So they fly off the lott telling.
Speaker 2: It's better than the housing market right now.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well there are some for sale, right yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: yeah and so and a lot of them obviously are
Speaker 1: like toyotas if you want to rav four hybrid.
Speaker 2: Yeah, here's their question. Look, here's a question for you
Speaker 2: that just came into my mind. Now, I did listen
Speaker 2: to your interview with the head of BMW, and I
Speaker 2: you know, he's saying they're not slowing down on anything.
Speaker 2: You know, the I seven, all of their I cars
Speaker 2: are full speed ahead. They're not adjusting anything.
Speaker 1: Yep.
Speaker 2: So my question to you is do you think there
Speaker 2: is going to be a divide between luxury and premium
Speaker 2: evs and mass market evs.
Speaker 1: Well, one of the points that Keith made to me
Speaker 1: when I was talking to him about EV demand is
Speaker 1: it's not because people necessarily don't want evs.
Speaker 2: Yeah they do.
Speaker 1: Some people want evs. There are compromises to be maybe.
Speaker 1: You know, you obviously need to figure out if you're
Speaker 1: going on a trip where the charging points are. If
Speaker 1: you keep it at home, you're gonna want to install something.
Speaker 1: It's inconvenient, so you're willing to do that, but you're
Speaker 1: not willing to do the inconvenient thing and pay eighty
Speaker 1: five dollars.
Speaker 2: It's actally bridge.
Speaker 1: The thing about VMW that I think is interesting is
Speaker 1: the IX, which is their eighty thousand dollars plus ev SUV.
Speaker 1: I don't that's not flying off a lot.
Speaker 2: No, And I kind of liked it when I endove it.
Speaker 2: I love it, but it's too expensive, I think, I
Speaker 2: even said.
Speaker 1: Meanwhile, the I four, which is considerably more affordable, that's
Speaker 1: flying off lots. So the cool thing about the BMW
Speaker 1: picture is they're selling sedans, even the EB sedans more
Speaker 1: than they are selling SUVs. In the last quarter they
Speaker 1: had growth in the car segment, and they had a
Speaker 1: ten percent drop in the suv segment, which is so
Speaker 1: much backward.
Speaker 2: That's very backward exactly.
Speaker 1: BMW is the coolest electric sedans. They have the I
Speaker 1: four now the I five seven, which is a big
Speaker 1: fan beast, and.
Speaker 2: We need a new Some of them are not attractive.
Speaker 1: Though, The I seven and the I X I think
Speaker 1: are horribly.
Speaker 2: I'm going to stand with my I seven looks okay
Speaker 2: in certain colors.
Speaker 1: I don't like the squinty eyes at all. I don't
Speaker 1: like it.
Speaker 2: They did it right X seven In the I do
Speaker 2: kind of like where the girl's going because I feel
Speaker 2: like it's going more into a bow tie shape. Yes,
Speaker 2: like less beaver tooth, more bow tie.
Speaker 1: That's correct.
Speaker 2: The kidney grill hasn't been around for years. Let's just
Speaker 2: be honest. Now it's like a sort of a cutesy
Speaker 2: bow tie, which.
Speaker 1: Right, But even if it's a kidney, the kidneys should
Speaker 1: be horizontal, not vertical.
Speaker 2: You know, hey, you know that's actually authentic. If you
Speaker 2: look at old, old, old BMW's they had big yes,
Speaker 2: start to look I gotta I gotta look at that
Speaker 2: the oldest BMW's big vertical grills that you can see
Speaker 2: the lineage here. There is a connection.
Speaker 1: All right, Let's talk about Chris Bryant's opinion piece, which
Speaker 1: is really a story of a Chinese billionaire who started
Speaker 1: Gillie and now has collected a ton of brands, some
Speaker 1: of which he wants to bring to market even here
Speaker 1: in the US, not in terms of just selling the vehicles,
Speaker 1: but also listing his stock. And he's finding a lack
Speaker 1: of investor interest, let's say, or less investor interest than
Speaker 1: he may have expected. Yeah, I was shocked by the
Speaker 1: amount of brands that Jilie owns. I knew that they were.
Speaker 1: I knew that they owned.
Speaker 2: Volvo Sure, which includes Polestar.
Speaker 1: Which includes Polestark as Volva owns like half of that.
Speaker 1: I knew that they had a minority stake in Daimler,
Speaker 1: in Mercedes.
Speaker 2: And Mercedes and Aston Martin, and.
Speaker 1: They own Smart.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So I guess they Yeah, I.
Speaker 2: Guess I'm aler that would make sense.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they must have bought it when they when they got.
Speaker 2: That, and then they have all those Chinese brands that
Speaker 2: we know the names.
Speaker 1: Like One's called Fleiker or something Zeker I think it is.
Speaker 1: They also own the Lotus brand.
Speaker 2: I think I knew that, but I forgot. I never
Speaker 2: think about it.
Speaker 1: Well, I never think about the Lotus brand has been
Speaker 1: owned by in Asia. Yeah, by a lot of people,
Speaker 1: but it's been in Asia for a while. I think
Speaker 1: I thought it was Malaysian. But now so, uh, this
Speaker 1: is a lot, This is a lot.
Speaker 2: I mean it does feel like they are going for
Speaker 2: a Volkswagen in terms of owning a very wide portfolio
Speaker 2: of brands. Yes, you know, is this world domination at time?
Speaker 1: I mean it seems like they're trying that, but I'm
Speaker 1: not sure if any of those brands really really goes
Speaker 1: for it. So Volvo, for example, I'm I've always been
Speaker 1: a lover of vols.
Speaker 2: Love it.
Speaker 1: Yeah. My first car was a two forty wagon in
Speaker 1: baby blue. You know.
Speaker 2: Oh that's so cool.
Speaker 1: You called it the blue suede. Is that lacked any
Speaker 1: kind of originality or creativit?
Speaker 2: Is that what your parents got you? Because it was
Speaker 2: very very safe. You know, that was like a high school.
Speaker 1: Well that's what my parents got, Okay, my mom got
Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty four. And then when I started to
Speaker 1: drive in I don't know, nineteen ninety Oh you inherited, Yeah,
Speaker 1: so I inherited that one, and then my brothers got it.
Speaker 1: We put two hundred and fifty thousand miles on that.
Speaker 1: But my parents have always had Volvos, both of them,
Speaker 1: and so I've grown up with the brand. Lately, they've
Speaker 1: been doing some things that are annoying, like so they
Speaker 1: capped the speed their car. None of their cars are
Speaker 1: going to go more than one hundred and I think
Speaker 1: thirty kilometers per hour. I did not hear about this
Speaker 1: announcement like two or three years ago, and I was
Speaker 1: talking to Hawkan Samuel's and the CEO about it. I
Speaker 1: was like, dude, do you not want to sell cars
Speaker 1: in Germany? And he said, basically, they're the adults in
Speaker 1: the room, is what they want to prove.
Speaker 2: You know. Well, let's be honest. There are many portions
Speaker 2: of the Autobahn where you actually can't go fast. True,
Speaker 2: those cameras are horrible, and it's worse than American highways
Speaker 2: where if you just think you're lucky you're not going
Speaker 2: to get pulled over. True, it seems so unsporting.
Speaker 1: There are ways around it, but.
Speaker 2: I mean so You're one of those guys that I
Speaker 2: always see like going you know, you're you have to
Speaker 2: go a certain speed between the cameras, but so I
Speaker 2: will do that. But then sometimes I do see people
Speaker 2: that are clearly going far faster than me, and I'm like,
Speaker 2: do they just not care about getting tickets or do
Speaker 2: they have a secret that I don't know about it?
Speaker 1: There are some ways to deal with those cameras, and
Speaker 1: there are some ways to deal with German tickets.
Speaker 2: Hmm, okay, well maybe I can't wait to hear.
Speaker 1: More super legal, let's say, or maybe sub legal anyway,
Speaker 1: spirit of the law. I just thought it was a
Speaker 1: bad idea that Volo did that. And now they've got these,
Speaker 1: you know, two liter four cylinders in their hybrids, which
Speaker 1: are super boring motors in any car, even in not
Speaker 1: a hybrid.
Speaker 2: But Bovo never cared about being boring. That is one
Speaker 2: thing we should say.
Speaker 1: And they have amazing design, like I loved it, I know,
Speaker 1: and the XT ninety that we have now beautiful.
Speaker 2: And there is the car the most miles on it
Speaker 2: in the world is a Volvo. It was owned, Oh,
Speaker 2: it was owned by h IRV Gordon. Is this fing
Speaker 2: he was a teacher and he drove this Volvo back
Speaker 2: and forth to school for his entire career, and he
Speaker 2: would drive it all over the country. And his car
Speaker 2: ended up having over a million miles on it. It's
Speaker 2: like it sets the record. I think it might have
Speaker 2: up to three million miles.
Speaker 1: They're awesome. I just don't feel like they're fully going
Speaker 1: for it. Uh you know that the in car technology
Speaker 1: isn't quite there. Polestar is another one where I feel
Speaker 1: like they had a great chance. They had an amazing
Speaker 1: first No, I.
Speaker 2: Know, I was so excited, so excited, and it's completely
Speaker 2: it's underwhelming. I think, yes, if you, I mean, I'm waiting.
Speaker 2: I'm like, guys, what is taking so long?
Speaker 1: I feel like they want to be an audi of evs,
Speaker 1: but they're just there's way too slow. And Lotus hasn't
Speaker 1: done anything.
Speaker 2: No, Lotus hasn't done anything, And I mean no, it's
Speaker 2: really a shame.
Speaker 1: It's a still and that I feel like they had
Speaker 1: a chance to really take off. And there are some
Speaker 1: people obviously that Lotuses and there's some amazing Lotuses. I'm
Speaker 1: sure they're super fun to drive, a little like Waight cars, right, Yeah,
Speaker 1: But they had such a massive opportunity after James Bond
Speaker 1: drove one and then Jason Alexander drove one A Pretty Woman,
Speaker 1: and I think Roberts exactly.
Speaker 2: So, I mean I've driven some of the old ones there,
Speaker 2: I've driven some of the new ones. They drive great.
Speaker 2: I mean they drive very elementary, rudimentary, but that can
Speaker 2: be really fun. And there's such heritage, like they have
Speaker 2: a thing that all of these new brands won't have
Speaker 2: for another fifty to seventy five years, which is heritage
Speaker 2: and history and story.
Speaker 1: True Colin Chapman exactly. I then, apparently Gelie has a
Speaker 1: brand in China that's top of the line like Zeeker.
Speaker 2: That's okay, I need to.
Speaker 1: Supposedly at least aspirational, not luxurious. Now, I was reading
Speaker 1: the story that Chris Road and I thought, they'll never
Speaker 1: sell Chinese evs over here. I realized they already do.
Speaker 1: Pole stars that sell here are made in China.
Speaker 2: Oh wow, there we go.
Speaker 1: Okay, Yeah, anyway, great story. Check it out if you
Speaker 1: have a chance on Bloomberg dot com or if you're
Speaker 1: a Bloomberg client, just bio Chris Bryant for that. That's
Speaker 1: all we have time for today.
Speaker 2: But are you doing this weekend?
Speaker 1: Matt being a dad again? That's good for another weekend. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm preparing for Christmas, you know, So you're.
Speaker 2: Gonna have an American Christmas, aren't you?
Speaker 1: My daughter's first American Christmas because we usually spend it
Speaker 1: in Spain, and it's the first time that she's also
Speaker 1: like conscious. She's three going on fifteen, perfect, and so
Speaker 1: I am going. My wife is getting her like an
Speaker 1: easel and an apron, right, But I am, unbeknownst to
Speaker 1: my wife just going to go all out and spoil
Speaker 1: the hell.
Speaker 2: I love it.
Speaker 1: I love it. Going to get her like an electric
Speaker 1: Ducati that she can ride around the driveway.
Speaker 2: You know, good, start them young.
Speaker 1: Not going to get her the little Bugatti. But that's
Speaker 1: very cool.
Speaker 2: It's like, how much does that cost? I was gonna
Speaker 2: say it's got the price of a normal car. Really,
Speaker 2: it's very.
Speaker 1: Much fun though. Thanks even for me. You can catch
Speaker 1: us again, same time, same place, next week. You can
Speaker 1: follow me if you like, on Instagram at Matt Miller
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy three.
Speaker 2: And you can follow me on Instagram at Hannah Elliott XO.
Speaker 2: That's Hannah with an H on the end and Elliott
Speaker 2: with two l's and two p's.
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. I'm Matt Miller, I'm
Speaker 2: Hannah Elliott, and this is Bloomberg