WEBVTT - Fire Drill 015: Midway at the PGA 0:00:04.320 --> 0:00:06.680 I just I think it's that's a very personal thing. 0:00:06.720 --> 0:00:08.600 You know, some people walk fast, some people walks like. 0:00:08.840 --> 0:00:11.040 Some people talk fast, some people talk So I think 0:00:11.080 --> 0:00:13.080 it's as long as you stay within your sort of 0:00:13.119 --> 0:00:16.400 bandwidth of sort of fire rhythms or bass or natural 0:00:16.480 --> 0:00:19.400 rhythms or something. I think it's okay. The thing about that, 0:00:19.520 --> 0:00:22.280 I think that it's worth watching with golf swing rhythms 0:00:22.280 --> 0:00:25.000 and stuff, as if they change under pressure. I think 0:00:25.120 --> 0:00:29.040 guys who whose swings have variable tempos, I think can 0:00:29.080 --> 0:00:36.879 look a little shaky. Put another log on the fire 0:00:40.120 --> 0:00:49.440 nobody hears get the time. Hello, This is Alan schip 0:00:49.520 --> 0:00:52.960 Duck back for another Fire Drill podcast. I've joined on 0:00:53.040 --> 0:00:55.920 my left by Michael Bamberger. Most importantly, we have on 0:00:55.960 --> 0:00:59.000 the line from Oz Jeff Ogilvie. Jeff, thanks for getting 0:00:59.040 --> 0:01:02.160 up early for this. Absolutely, you've been up for a 0:01:02.200 --> 0:01:05.240 few hours. Wouldn't miss it. So you've been you've been 0:01:05.240 --> 0:01:08.400 watching the you've been watching the golf. Tell me tell 0:01:08.640 --> 0:01:10.880 your impressions of the way the course is playing and 0:01:10.920 --> 0:01:15.400 what you're seeing out there. Um yeah, firstly the course. 0:01:15.480 --> 0:01:17.640 I mean, isn't it nice to see a golf course 0:01:17.640 --> 0:01:21.319 set up so well for a golf tournament, greens that 0:01:21.360 --> 0:01:25.440 are a sensible pace. You know, it shows you that 0:01:25.480 --> 0:01:28.440 you don't need crazy fast greens to challenge the players. 0:01:28.480 --> 0:01:31.640 I mean, they're slopy enough greens. Um, they looked like 0:01:31.760 --> 0:01:33.319 a little bit of a bounce something, so it matters 0:01:33.319 --> 0:01:36.480 where you're coming from. But it's the challenge of the greens, 0:01:36.520 --> 0:01:38.800 not the challenge of the pace of the greens, I think, 0:01:38.880 --> 0:01:43.039 which is kind of interesting. Um, And a pretty lopsided drawer, 0:01:43.040 --> 0:01:46.319 it looks like at this point, which is unfortunate for 0:01:46.959 --> 0:01:51.080 the guys who played this morning. But JT and um 0:01:51.160 --> 0:01:52.840 Fitzpatrick looks like they did the best of it, and 0:01:52.880 --> 0:01:54.800 they're obviously playing really really well. I guess it was 0:01:54.840 --> 0:01:57.080 really really tough on their side of the drawer. They 0:01:57.080 --> 0:01:59.200 had sort of twenty four hours of wind, and the 0:01:59.200 --> 0:02:01.080 other side of that the always got prettylucky the guys 0:02:01.080 --> 0:02:04.240 who are playing this afternoon. So um, there'll be a 0:02:04.240 --> 0:02:06.320 few guys who finished this morning who feel a bit 0:02:06.360 --> 0:02:09.200 hard done by. But all in all, I think it's 0:02:09.240 --> 0:02:14.000 pretty interesting. You know, I think a gil hands slash haunts, 0:02:14.040 --> 0:02:18.720 depending on how sophisticating might be. He did say something 0:02:19.320 --> 0:02:21.400 in the run up to this saying, you know, we 0:02:21.480 --> 0:02:25.079 prefer to compromise the green spies versus compromising architecture, which 0:02:25.080 --> 0:02:27.160 I thought was really refreshing because the modern game they 0:02:27.200 --> 0:02:29.280 just want to push it to the edge, and especially 0:02:29.280 --> 0:02:31.560 at these big tournaments, is almost like the set of 0:02:31.600 --> 0:02:33.600 guys that carriehigs A little better about that, but there's 0:02:33.600 --> 0:02:36.239 still this pressure to get the green super fast. But 0:02:37.120 --> 0:02:39.000 you know, it does seem like a sensible pace even 0:02:39.040 --> 0:02:41.160 though the it's still pretty darn quick coming down those hills. 0:02:42.280 --> 0:02:44.280 But what do you what do you think about philosophy, 0:02:44.320 --> 0:02:46.919 Jeff just to does does it take away from the 0:02:46.960 --> 0:02:51.400 championship test if the Greens are not blindingly fast? No? 0:02:51.520 --> 0:02:56.359 Absolutely not. I mean I think just because you can 0:02:56.400 --> 0:02:58.680 get the grains to fourteen and fifteen doesn't mean you should, 0:02:58.760 --> 0:03:00.160 you know. I mean we can make cars it go 0:03:00.240 --> 0:03:02.639 three hundred miles and out, but that doesn't make it sensible. 0:03:02.760 --> 0:03:06.120 You know. Um, it's just what if we end up 0:03:06.120 --> 0:03:08.000 with crazy fast greens, you just end up having to 0:03:08.040 --> 0:03:10.680 have the ball the holes on the flat spots. Um, 0:03:10.800 --> 0:03:15.680 you can't use the interesting pin positions. Um. I think 0:03:15.720 --> 0:03:18.480 firmness is much more interesting than just out and out 0:03:18.600 --> 0:03:22.360 blinding speed. So I think no, I think girls completely right. 0:03:22.360 --> 0:03:25.160 I think you have much more. If you look at 0:03:25.160 --> 0:03:27.360 all the old golf courses, the great old golf courses, 0:03:27.360 --> 0:03:29.000 I mean, they're all built with greens that used to 0:03:29.040 --> 0:03:31.120 run at five six seven on the stemp and that's 0:03:31.160 --> 0:03:34.080 got such sort of wild, crazy greens. It's a shame 0:03:34.120 --> 0:03:36.440 to sort of flatten those greens just because we can 0:03:36.480 --> 0:03:39.640 make them crazy fast. I think they're interesting and great 0:03:39.640 --> 0:03:42.360 courses because the greens have undulation and interest in them, 0:03:42.440 --> 0:03:45.200 and I think there's a there's a sensible pace to 0:03:45.240 --> 0:03:49.200 play all greens. And um, to be honest with your 0:03:49.200 --> 0:03:52.760 professionals generally get chatted sometimes when greens are slightly slower 0:03:52.760 --> 0:03:54.360 than maybe they're used to in the tournament like this, 0:03:54.480 --> 0:03:55.800 they seem to have a little bit of trouble. I 0:03:55.840 --> 0:03:57.920 always did. I always prefer the greens a bit faster. 0:03:58.040 --> 0:04:01.800 So um they obviously you say plenty fast, and there's 0:04:01.920 --> 0:04:03.880 there's plenty of slope on that a challenge the players. 0:04:03.880 --> 0:04:06.680 But I think a sensible pace for the slopes that 0:04:06.720 --> 0:04:10.240 you've got, I think it's great. And as you say, 0:04:10.320 --> 0:04:12.680 Kerry and the PGA always do a pretty incredible job 0:04:13.360 --> 0:04:16.920 setting a golf course, subcontroversy, free and interesting and they've 0:04:16.920 --> 0:04:19.000 got a great template with southern hills and looks like 0:04:19.040 --> 0:04:21.480 have done a perfect job. Chure if when you watch 0:04:21.640 --> 0:04:23.960 golf on two be as you've been doing this morning, 0:04:24.440 --> 0:04:31.040 do you have the volume honor rough on? Um, it 0:04:31.160 --> 0:04:33.919 can be interesting. There's there's a great there's kind of 0:04:34.360 --> 0:04:38.960 sort of a large amount of announcers, so there's enough 0:04:39.040 --> 0:04:43.000 variety there to not get me too frustrated. Um. Sometimes 0:04:43.040 --> 0:04:44.840 when you've been inside the ropes, when you listen to 0:04:44.880 --> 0:04:46.800 people talk about golf, it could be a little annoying. 0:04:46.839 --> 0:04:49.400 But no, it's been great. UM. I usually listen to 0:04:49.440 --> 0:04:51.599 it on and you get a bit of atmosphere. Obviously, 0:04:51.600 --> 0:04:53.200 when there's a group like Tiger and Jordan and that 0:04:53.320 --> 0:04:56.240 out there, that's it's nice to hear the crowd of 0:04:56.240 --> 0:04:59.719 the noise and um, the stuff and maybe some of 0:04:59.720 --> 0:05:01.880 the the mottos under the breath when they hit a 0:05:01.880 --> 0:05:03.480 shot that I unlock. I think that's all sort of 0:05:03.520 --> 0:05:06.479 powder watching the game. Yet we we should mention it's 0:05:06.560 --> 0:05:11.120 it's late afternoon here in Tulsa. Tiger and Rory are 0:05:11.240 --> 0:05:13.840 deep into their back nine and Michael, you you're out 0:05:13.839 --> 0:05:15.520 there walking I was there for a bid I kind 0:05:15.520 --> 0:05:17.200 of sneak to wait and see some other things. But 0:05:17.560 --> 0:05:23.640 what are your impressions of the Tiger Rory Jordan group. Well, uh, Jeff, 0:05:23.680 --> 0:05:27.279 tell me your opinion. Jordan's Speed is a wonderful person. 0:05:27.400 --> 0:05:29.560 I think anybody who's met Jordan's speedple off the golf 0:05:29.600 --> 0:05:32.560 course would love to be in his company. But to 0:05:32.720 --> 0:05:36.320 watch that practice swing, what you know, a hundred or 0:05:36.400 --> 0:05:39.159 more times around, I think it would drive you crazy 0:05:39.200 --> 0:05:40.920 after a while. But you tell me, Jeff, what what's 0:05:40.960 --> 0:05:44.000 it like for you watching Speed make that practice swing 0:05:44.200 --> 0:05:46.400 And what's it like? Not in that exact situation, but 0:05:46.440 --> 0:05:47.919 other times when we watch a guy who's got a 0:05:47.920 --> 0:05:49.560 weird move, does it get in your head or what's 0:05:49.600 --> 0:05:53.640 it like? I'm interested to say what he's trying to do. 0:05:53.680 --> 0:05:55.720 I mean, I kind of it's I can't describe it 0:05:55.760 --> 0:05:59.640 in words. I kind of know what he's trying to feel. Um, 0:05:59.640 --> 0:06:01.840 it is probably strange for people to look at. I mean, 0:06:01.839 --> 0:06:03.520 I get frustrated, as you said. I mean, I love 0:06:03.640 --> 0:06:07.880 Jordan's He's one of the nicest guys out there. He tried, 0:06:07.920 --> 0:06:10.160 he works so hard, he just wants it so bad 0:06:10.560 --> 0:06:13.400 and he will try anything. Um, he's one of those guys. 0:06:13.440 --> 0:06:16.799 He's not quite Harrington, but he's sort of got that tendency, 0:06:16.839 --> 0:06:18.400 you know, to just sort of try whatever he has 0:06:18.440 --> 0:06:21.239 to do to make it work. And it's it's interesting 0:06:21.279 --> 0:06:23.159 at the moment watching him do that. I think I 0:06:23.200 --> 0:06:27.479 wish he would. I don't know, he's I loved his 0:06:27.520 --> 0:06:29.440 swing when he first came out. I mean sort of 0:06:29.480 --> 0:06:31.440 people would talk about is like little sort of bent 0:06:31.520 --> 0:06:33.479 left arm, chicken wings sort of thing through the ball. 0:06:33.520 --> 0:06:36.120 But I thought he looked fantastic that first few years 0:06:36.360 --> 0:06:38.760 out on the golf course hitting the ball. So um. 0:06:38.760 --> 0:06:41.599 He's obviously searching and finding a feel and you can't 0:06:41.600 --> 0:06:43.760 sort of argue with that. He's played great the last 0:06:43.760 --> 0:06:45.760 few weeks, He's played great all year. Really, he's sort 0:06:45.800 --> 0:06:48.479 of right at the ship, if you like. A couple 0:06:48.480 --> 0:06:50.200 of years ago he was really battling with his game 0:06:50.240 --> 0:06:53.120 and sort of kept grinding and kept grinding, and he's 0:06:53.120 --> 0:06:54.640 found something that it works. And I guess when you 0:06:54.680 --> 0:06:56.320 find something that works, you just do it. I mean, 0:06:56.880 --> 0:06:58.840 just because it doesn't look like Samson, he doesn't mean 0:06:58.839 --> 0:07:01.479 it's not the right thing for him to do. Um, 0:07:01.560 --> 0:07:05.880 And it's it's interesting to watch. But yeah, the swing 0:07:05.920 --> 0:07:08.680 actually looks pretty much like a Jordan's speed swing. It's 0:07:08.680 --> 0:07:11.840 really that practice thing. I've noticed tigers just staring down 0:07:11.880 --> 0:07:14.320 the fairway. He's not taking it in. But I think 0:07:14.360 --> 0:07:16.720 macar is a little bit like, what's this guy doing here? 0:07:17.240 --> 0:07:20.560 I really I do. When when you watch are you 0:07:20.600 --> 0:07:22.800 now of course your golf course architect you're very interesting 0:07:22.880 --> 0:07:25.120 architecture just other nails, but also you know the players, 0:07:25.200 --> 0:07:27.480 You know what it's like to play at this level. Um, 0:07:27.680 --> 0:07:29.680 which hat do you think you have on more at 0:07:29.720 --> 0:07:35.080 this point when you're watching mostly a player, I think 0:07:35.240 --> 0:07:39.360 in this situation, um, yeah, you just get all the 0:07:39.840 --> 0:07:41.880 sort of the fields and stuff a little bit from 0:07:42.040 --> 0:07:44.360 being out there and interested, and I look at all 0:07:44.400 --> 0:07:46.200 the things that players look like that the drawer, like 0:07:46.200 --> 0:07:49.440 I said, the lock side of draw is um frustrates me, 0:07:49.480 --> 0:07:51.360 even not even not even being in the tournament, because 0:07:51.360 --> 0:07:52.800 it's such an annoying thing when you get on the 0:07:52.800 --> 0:07:56.000 wrong side of it. Um and a little bit envious 0:07:56.040 --> 0:07:57.680 because it looks like a fun place to play. At 0:07:57.680 --> 0:08:01.440 the moment um it's obviously getting pretty hot, but it's 0:08:01.440 --> 0:08:04.960 an incredible place to play. It looks fantastic and great 0:08:04.960 --> 0:08:07.640 shape and a little bit jealous of the guys out there, 0:08:07.680 --> 0:08:10.760 but that's right, yeah, I mean, and sometimes the architecture, 0:08:10.760 --> 0:08:13.240 I mean, it's been very interesting. Um it looks like 0:08:13.280 --> 0:08:15.200 you can play from the trees a little bit if 0:08:15.240 --> 0:08:18.160 you if you're sort of there's not some crazy rough 0:08:18.280 --> 0:08:20.880 under the trees. There's there's been some pretty impressive recovery 0:08:20.880 --> 0:08:22.920 shots I've seen. And the guys who sort of understand 0:08:23.320 --> 0:08:26.520 angles and they can miss fairways and miss greens on 0:08:26.560 --> 0:08:28.239 the correct side and they look like they're going okay, 0:08:28.240 --> 0:08:29.720 and the ones who miss at the wrong spot they 0:08:29.720 --> 0:08:32.679 look like they having all sorts of trouble. So um, 0:08:32.760 --> 0:08:35.600 it looks a fun place to play and a really 0:08:35.600 --> 0:08:38.600 fun place to watch golf played. It looks like I've 0:08:38.600 --> 0:08:40.480 been joined watching it. Sometimes it's it's a bit of 0:08:40.480 --> 0:08:42.080 a sort of a par fest and a bit boring 0:08:42.120 --> 0:08:44.000 and down the fairway and on the green, down the fairway, 0:08:44.000 --> 0:08:45.600 on the green and just chip outs when they miss. 0:08:45.679 --> 0:08:49.760 But um, there's most shots here are sort of fun 0:08:49.800 --> 0:08:52.079 to watch and interesting, and there's been great recovery shots. 0:08:52.120 --> 0:08:55.400 It's some massive drives. Rory's hitting it so far, it's incredible, 0:08:55.480 --> 0:08:59.120 So and trouble on the greens. I mean, no one's 0:08:59.160 --> 0:09:02.720 holding much and look like so it's just all around 0:09:02.800 --> 0:09:05.439 enjoyable well. And the way the just the way the 0:09:05.880 --> 0:09:08.520 fairways fan out in every different direction, it is great 0:09:08.559 --> 0:09:12.240 for spectating in that. Uh, when you have those parallel fairways, 0:09:12.240 --> 0:09:13.720 like at the old cores, sometimes you can't get on 0:09:13.720 --> 0:09:16.400 the inside. And but here there's so many great views 0:09:16.440 --> 0:09:18.240 and it's such a big ballpark. The crowd, it's a 0:09:18.280 --> 0:09:21.000 huge crowd, but it's nicely dispersed, so it's I was 0:09:21.040 --> 0:09:23.520 outside the ropes, just wandering around and you always with 0:09:23.679 --> 0:09:25.480 the hills and the undulations, you always have a good view, 0:09:25.520 --> 0:09:28.520 which is nice. But um, Jeff, you mentioned something that 0:09:28.520 --> 0:09:30.800 that picked my interest about how when they slow the 0:09:30.800 --> 0:09:33.080 greens down a little bit it can affect you. I 0:09:33.080 --> 0:09:35.960 saw I saw a tweet. It was about Burned Wisberger, 0:09:36.000 --> 0:09:38.360 who his ball striking numbers are off the charts on 0:09:38.400 --> 0:09:40.559 the European Tour, but he's not known as a great putter. 0:09:40.600 --> 0:09:43.160 And someone said, well, I think slow greens helped the 0:09:43.200 --> 0:09:45.680 bad putters because they have to really accelerate and they 0:09:45.679 --> 0:09:47.000 have to hit the ball hard. It's like less of 0:09:47.040 --> 0:09:50.160 a yippie delicate stroke and more really smacking the ball 0:09:50.200 --> 0:09:52.360 and it takes some of the flinch out. Is there 0:09:52.400 --> 0:09:57.160 anything to that and do do bad putters like I 0:09:57.200 --> 0:09:59.319 don't myst dog you the other way to be honest, Um, 0:09:59.640 --> 0:10:01.160 I think unless you have to hit it, I think 0:10:01.200 --> 0:10:02.839 fast greens, when you feel like you can just get 0:10:02.840 --> 0:10:04.760 the ball rolling, I feel like it's a little bit easier. 0:10:04.800 --> 0:10:06.840 It's a sort of be a bit smoother. I think 0:10:06.880 --> 0:10:08.199 when they actually have to have a hit it. I 0:10:08.200 --> 0:10:10.000 mean some of these uphill puts here at Southern Hills, 0:10:10.000 --> 0:10:13.560 there's obviously a lot of pitch on these grains. They 0:10:13.600 --> 0:10:15.120 look like they're having a hard time getting the ball 0:10:15.120 --> 0:10:17.280 of the whole a lot of the time hitting the 0:10:17.280 --> 0:10:19.960 ball hard. I think sometimes it's difficult when you're struggling 0:10:19.960 --> 0:10:23.080 with your putting. Um. I always sort of felt like 0:10:23.120 --> 0:10:25.520 if I was battling a little bit a fast green, 0:10:25.640 --> 0:10:27.599 a fast sort of pure grain, that you could just 0:10:27.640 --> 0:10:29.839 get the ball rolling and trickle, I always felt sort 0:10:29.880 --> 0:10:31.480 of maybe a bit easier. So look, and I think 0:10:31.520 --> 0:10:35.600 it works sort of both ways. I think Wiesberger plays 0:10:35.600 --> 0:10:37.720 in Europe where they sort of probably normally play slightly 0:10:37.720 --> 0:10:39.280 slower greens, so he brought me a little bit more 0:10:39.320 --> 0:10:43.360 comfortable on slower greens. And um, guys who grow I mean, 0:10:43.360 --> 0:10:45.480 I grew up in Melbourne, so that's probably why I 0:10:45.559 --> 0:10:48.120 like really fast greens, because we had greens that were 0:10:48.160 --> 0:10:50.120 probably always just a little bit too fast growing up. 0:10:50.400 --> 0:10:52.080 And then there's other people who grow up in places 0:10:52.080 --> 0:10:54.080 are really slow greens and they're probably comfortable there. So 0:10:54.120 --> 0:10:57.880 I think it's probably pretty personal. Um. Usually I think 0:10:57.920 --> 0:11:01.840 pros if the surface is good, bell part well and 0:11:01.880 --> 0:11:05.080 if the surfaces poor. Not that we played on poor services, 0:11:05.080 --> 0:11:06.600 but you guys know what I mean, sort of those 0:11:07.000 --> 0:11:10.679 afternoon greens on the Power and Pebble Beach or New 0:11:10.760 --> 0:11:13.679 York sort of thing. Sometimes they can get a bit roby, 0:11:13.760 --> 0:11:16.360 and that's generally when guys are bad, but when the 0:11:16.360 --> 0:11:19.120 surface is good, most guys out there on make them. 0:11:19.800 --> 0:11:21.440 If there's a little bit of a Rip Van Winkle 0:11:21.520 --> 0:11:23.400 effect for you, I would think because it's been a 0:11:23.440 --> 0:11:25.440 while since you've been here and now you're watching on TV, 0:11:25.920 --> 0:11:27.719 the game's change a lot, equipment change al out of 0:11:27.720 --> 0:11:29.840 the ball certainly changed a lot. The sides of the golfers. 0:11:30.080 --> 0:11:35.040 Do you see guys playing specific holes differently uh today 0:11:35.080 --> 0:11:37.319 than you did, uh you know when we were last 0:11:37.360 --> 0:11:40.800 year in two thousand and seven a little bit. I mean, 0:11:40.800 --> 0:11:43.000 it's incredible how like Rory hid it in the trees 0:11:43.080 --> 0:11:46.000 on was it five and then just hit it up 0:11:46.040 --> 0:11:48.079 into the greenside bunker and the holes like six and 0:11:48.120 --> 0:11:50.040 sixty yards. That's that's hard for me to imagine that 0:11:50.080 --> 0:11:53.880 anybody can do that. The length that the ball has gone. 0:11:53.920 --> 0:11:55.600 Oh seven was the last time we were there in 0:11:55.640 --> 0:11:57.800 fifteen years. I guess there's been there's been a long 0:11:57.840 --> 0:12:00.839 fifteen years in this game. How far the ball is 0:12:00.880 --> 0:12:03.520 going now or I mean there were probably a couple 0:12:03.520 --> 0:12:05.000 of guys who could hear at three twenty or so 0:12:05.120 --> 0:12:06.679 back then, but now there's a lot of guys who 0:12:06.720 --> 0:12:09.280 can do it. Um, So I think the length they're 0:12:09.320 --> 0:12:12.520 hitting it now. But mostly I'm just interested because there's 0:12:12.520 --> 0:12:17.040 a bit more with some of the fairways what girls done, Um, 0:12:17.080 --> 0:12:19.240 it's it's brought a bit more within a few more angles. 0:12:19.280 --> 0:12:22.000 So there's guys playing shots for frauds from spots that 0:12:22.000 --> 0:12:24.520 would have been in the rough in oh seven that 0:12:24.559 --> 0:12:26.840 are now in the fairway, which I'm finding quite interesting. 0:12:26.840 --> 0:12:28.440 And the rough looks a little bit more playable than 0:12:28.480 --> 0:12:31.040 it was when we had it back then. So just 0:12:31.160 --> 0:12:35.720 really sort of just fanning on the golf course and 0:12:35.320 --> 0:12:37.520 the and the golf is really not really sort of 0:12:38.480 --> 0:12:42.000 comparing eras too much. But yeah, the big difference is 0:12:42.040 --> 0:12:43.720 how far so many of these guys had it, And 0:12:43.720 --> 0:12:45.480 there's much more drivers. I mean we're a bit more 0:12:45.480 --> 0:12:48.920 conservative thing. Um. Back fifteen years ago, we we sort 0:12:48.920 --> 0:12:52.400 of fairway was more of a premium, I guess, or 0:12:53.360 --> 0:12:55.240 we didn't think we could hit driver quite as straight 0:12:55.280 --> 0:12:57.160 as they do now. So there's a lot more drivers 0:12:57.200 --> 0:13:01.080 now and a lot more aggressive, and um, it probably 0:13:01.120 --> 0:13:02.840 makes a little bit more fun to watch a lot 0:13:02.920 --> 0:13:04.480 of times. I think it's fun. We all love to 0:13:04.480 --> 0:13:05.880 say a guy I have a crack at a sort 0:13:05.880 --> 0:13:08.000 of a narrow hole and try to drive it up 0:13:08.000 --> 0:13:09.600 fifty short of the grain and stuff like they're doing 0:13:09.640 --> 0:13:13.080 with the drivers. So um, all in all, probably more interesting. 0:13:13.120 --> 0:13:15.480 But yeah, that's the difference, Just that more aggression than 0:13:15.520 --> 0:13:18.360 just further. I wonder if the players have changed or 0:13:18.480 --> 0:13:20.600 the math nerds have won, because you know, there's all 0:13:20.600 --> 0:13:23.120 the shot linked data where they've kind of proven that 0:13:23.160 --> 0:13:25.160 it's better off to hit driver and be closer to 0:13:25.200 --> 0:13:27.520 the green even in if you're in the rough, and 0:13:27.880 --> 0:13:31.439 some players kind of knew that intuitively, whether it's Calcavecia 0:13:31.600 --> 0:13:34.040 or maybe you know Phil, but um, you know, they 0:13:34.080 --> 0:13:36.240 pretty much have have shown that to be the case 0:13:36.480 --> 0:13:38.880 in black and white numbers, that you just be as 0:13:38.920 --> 0:13:40.319 close to green as you can, and whether you're in 0:13:40.320 --> 0:13:43.040 the rough or not is becomes less important. Do you 0:13:43.040 --> 0:13:46.040 think information has changed the way? I mean Roy's talking about, 0:13:46.200 --> 0:13:48.679 you know, looking at the flyovers and Google Earth and 0:13:49.120 --> 0:13:50.960 there's so much more ways to break down a golf 0:13:50.960 --> 0:13:54.200 course before you even get here with the stat packages 0:13:54.240 --> 0:13:57.360 and stuff. I mean, is has that fed into maybe 0:13:57.400 --> 0:14:02.480 the fact that we're seeing more drivers? I think absolutely. 0:14:02.520 --> 0:14:04.720 I mean I think there was for so long in 0:14:04.800 --> 0:14:07.839 golf it was just done because that's the way it's 0:14:07.880 --> 0:14:10.679 always been done, you know. I don't think there's been 0:14:10.679 --> 0:14:12.760 too many deep dives into like why we do it 0:14:12.800 --> 0:14:15.040 this way. It's just like, well, short puff forwards, we 0:14:15.120 --> 0:14:17.320 just did it iron and these holes we did driver, 0:14:17.400 --> 0:14:18.760 and you never do this and you never do that 0:14:18.760 --> 0:14:20.600 because it was just that's the way we've always done it. 0:14:20.640 --> 0:14:22.960 So we do it that way. And I think guys 0:14:22.960 --> 0:14:25.120 like Jack and Hogan and a few guys that have 0:14:25.200 --> 0:14:28.240 probably took a little deeper dive into sort of intuitively 0:14:28.240 --> 0:14:31.400 trying to work out what worked better. But now within 0:14:31.440 --> 0:14:33.120 this sort of what are you with the money ball 0:14:33.160 --> 0:14:37.720 era or the sort of the analytics era, with with 0:14:37.760 --> 0:14:39.840 all the computers and the stats that are all taken 0:14:39.880 --> 0:14:41.720 now that sort of twenty years of shot linked better 0:14:41.760 --> 0:14:44.400 and stuff we've had, there's just, as you say, the 0:14:44.480 --> 0:14:46.760 number boffins have just gone crazy and just sort of 0:14:46.800 --> 0:14:48.600 shown us there's a better way to do it than 0:14:48.600 --> 0:14:51.320 you've traditionally thought. I mean that sort of old school 0:14:51.360 --> 0:14:53.680 thought that we used to have that always lay it 0:14:53.720 --> 0:14:55.840 up to your perfect yardage on a path five for 0:14:55.880 --> 0:14:58.360 your wedge and stuff. It's just completely gone. Now it's 0:14:58.400 --> 0:15:00.880 just you basically hit it as close to as you 0:15:00.920 --> 0:15:04.280 can to the whole after every shot, you know what 0:15:04.320 --> 0:15:05.520 I mean, Because you're going to do better from a 0:15:05.600 --> 0:15:07.280 hundred yards and you are from a hundred ten, You're 0:15:07.280 --> 0:15:08.760 gonna be from better from a hundred and ten than 0:15:08.800 --> 0:15:10.880 you are from a hundred and twenty. And that's pretty 0:15:10.920 --> 0:15:14.960 sort of linear all the way out. So that was 0:15:15.080 --> 0:15:17.080 never really the way people thought. We just did it 0:15:17.120 --> 0:15:19.240 the way we always thought it was supposed to be played, 0:15:19.240 --> 0:15:21.720 and now it's sort of we've been shown, as you say, 0:15:21.760 --> 0:15:24.480 by the stats guys and the numbers guys, that no, 0:15:24.800 --> 0:15:27.040 this is actually the way you play golf and do 0:15:27.160 --> 0:15:29.200 this as much as you can. There's obviously exceptions all 0:15:29.200 --> 0:15:32.800 over the place, so that rule, but um, yeah, it's 0:15:32.840 --> 0:15:38.320 definitely probably one of the more analyzed sports or games 0:15:38.360 --> 0:15:43.280 that's ever been played. So and I think finally there's 0:15:43.640 --> 0:15:48.480 people are listening as well, and there's benefit. I mean, 0:15:48.480 --> 0:15:50.640 there's instant benefit. As I said the shot link era, 0:15:50.760 --> 0:15:53.040 with all the stats and stuff that we get, it's 0:15:53.040 --> 0:15:56.560 provable now it's not just sort of theories and fields 0:15:56.600 --> 0:16:01.960 and old wives tales and it's actual reality fact. So, um, 0:16:02.280 --> 0:16:04.520 it's a lot easier to buy into something when someone says, look, 0:16:04.560 --> 0:16:06.920 you're just gonna you're just going to be better if 0:16:06.920 --> 0:16:08.760 you hit the ball here, as opposed to hear So, 0:16:09.640 --> 0:16:14.160 you're absolutely right. If you compare how Bryson played wing 0:16:14.160 --> 0:16:16.880 fort versus you, uh, you're playing a wing foot, does 0:16:16.880 --> 0:16:19.400 that be does that become particularly evident in that kind 0:16:19.400 --> 0:16:23.640 of comparison? Yeah, well that's the extreme example, right, I 0:16:23.680 --> 0:16:26.480 mean that's um, Bryson took it to the end, to 0:16:26.480 --> 0:16:30.160 to the absolute end of that um that week, just 0:16:30.240 --> 0:16:31.680 in it as far as he could and didn't care 0:16:31.680 --> 0:16:34.320 of you in the raff and Um, there's there's always 0:16:34.320 --> 0:16:35.960 been a little bit of element of that, to be honest, 0:16:35.960 --> 0:16:40.320 in the us open um, because they were always so narrow, 0:16:40.640 --> 0:16:42.800 or they've traditionally been so narrow, and it's so dead. 0:16:42.800 --> 0:16:44.360 When you miss the fairway, you might as well miss it. 0:16:44.360 --> 0:16:45.720 If you're gonna miss it anyway, you might as well 0:16:45.760 --> 0:16:47.720 miss it closer to the grain. I mean, So there's 0:16:47.760 --> 0:16:49.560 always been a little bit of that, but no one 0:16:49.560 --> 0:16:53.840 ever played it that way, you know. Um he did 0:16:53.880 --> 0:16:55.560 that way and we didn't do that. I mean, fairway 0:16:55.640 --> 0:16:59.080 was a premium for me. I just it was fair way. 0:17:00.320 --> 0:17:03.120 It was just fairway at all costs, really and then 0:17:03.160 --> 0:17:05.480 work from there. Whereas it's not really that now. It's 0:17:05.480 --> 0:17:07.400 as far as you can at all costs and then 0:17:07.400 --> 0:17:10.800 work it out. Um. So it's absolutely a difference. I 0:17:10.880 --> 0:17:14.000 don't think. I think there's probably a happy medium in there, 0:17:14.000 --> 0:17:17.720 in the middle somewhere. I think just the extreme Bryson 0:17:17.760 --> 0:17:19.680 could do that four or five weeks in a right wingfoot. 0:17:19.720 --> 0:17:22.080 He probably you wouldn't win every time, you know, because 0:17:22.080 --> 0:17:23.800 you'd get some really bad lies in the raff and 0:17:23.800 --> 0:17:27.040 it wouldn't work out. And the guy who was ultra conservative, 0:17:27.480 --> 0:17:30.200 fairway only sort of guy, he would probably never catch 0:17:30.240 --> 0:17:32.440 Bryson on Bryson's good week. So I think there's sort 0:17:32.440 --> 0:17:34.600 of a I think you've got to take a high 0:17:34.640 --> 0:17:37.040 sort of level overview and all these sorts of things 0:17:37.040 --> 0:17:40.199 and just you know, sort of sort of walk in 0:17:40.240 --> 0:17:42.320 the middle there somewhere. There's there's a lot of different 0:17:42.320 --> 0:17:46.040 ways to get around a golf course, ultra ultra aggressive 0:17:46.040 --> 0:17:50.040 to ultra conservative. I mean, Tigers one a lot of 0:17:50.119 --> 0:17:53.439 majors being incredibly conservative, and that model still probably works 0:17:53.560 --> 0:17:55.880 around a lot of golf courses. So I mean, he's 0:17:55.880 --> 0:17:58.000 one more majors than any of us in the last 0:17:58.440 --> 0:18:02.199 sort of twenty thirty years. So I think you have 0:18:02.280 --> 0:18:03.800 to have a look at the way target used to 0:18:03.840 --> 0:18:06.320 approach it. And there's a piece there's a piece of 0:18:06.320 --> 0:18:08.320 mind in your head that comes from being in the 0:18:08.320 --> 0:18:10.840 fairway all day and playing that way. There's sort of 0:18:10.880 --> 0:18:13.399 a chaos in your head when you're sort of playing 0:18:13.400 --> 0:18:15.440 it out of the roff. So and there's a lot 0:18:15.440 --> 0:18:17.080 in that, and there's a lot of fatigue in trying 0:18:17.080 --> 0:18:18.680 to recover on every hole and getting it out of 0:18:18.680 --> 0:18:20.760 the roffs. So I think there's there's somewhere in the middle, 0:18:20.800 --> 0:18:23.159 there's the sweet spot for everybody. Everyone is going to 0:18:23.200 --> 0:18:26.240 be a little bit different, but you can absolutely sort 0:18:26.280 --> 0:18:29.040