1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:04,720 Speaker 1: From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is 2 00:00:04,800 --> 00:00:09,119 Speaker 1: riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or 3 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:12,079 Speaker 1: learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A 4 00:00:12,240 --> 00:00:25,400 Speaker 1: production of My Heart Radio. Hello, welcome back to the show. 5 00:00:25,440 --> 00:00:28,200 Speaker 1: My name is Matt, my name is Nol. They called 6 00:00:28,200 --> 00:00:31,240 Speaker 1: me Ben. We're joined as always with our super producer 7 00:00:31,360 --> 00:00:35,360 Speaker 1: Paul Mission Control decond. Most importantly, you are you. You 8 00:00:35,400 --> 00:00:38,840 Speaker 1: are here, and that makes this the stuff they don't 9 00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:43,199 Speaker 1: want you to know. Don't believe us, That's fine, Ask questions, 10 00:00:43,440 --> 00:00:47,519 Speaker 1: question everything, why, That's what this episode is about. Uh. 11 00:00:47,680 --> 00:00:51,080 Speaker 1: We talk a lot about critical thinking on this show, 12 00:00:51,360 --> 00:00:54,360 Speaker 1: and you know, I think it's safe for us to 13 00:00:54,440 --> 00:00:59,400 Speaker 1: say this when over the years when we've been doing 14 00:00:59,440 --> 00:01:03,800 Speaker 1: this show, we have at times met with people who 15 00:01:03,920 --> 00:01:07,960 Speaker 1: have been a bit dismissive from the jump and said, oh, 16 00:01:08,080 --> 00:01:10,880 Speaker 1: this is a what are you conspiracy show? Is stuff 17 00:01:10,920 --> 00:01:14,120 Speaker 1: they don't want you to know, basically Alex Jones, And 18 00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:19,040 Speaker 1: the answer is absolutely not. We prize critical thinking and 19 00:01:19,560 --> 00:01:23,280 Speaker 1: it's led us to some very strange places. But you, 20 00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:27,200 Speaker 1: longtime conspiracy realists have been with us the entirety of 21 00:01:27,319 --> 00:01:31,119 Speaker 1: the drive. So we gotta ask you and ourselves when's 22 00:01:31,160 --> 00:01:35,160 Speaker 1: the last time you rethought a long held belief? Can 23 00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:40,080 Speaker 1: anyone the five of us, right, Paul and Matt, Noel 24 00:01:40,120 --> 00:01:42,640 Speaker 1: and myself and and you were listening along at home, 25 00:01:42,920 --> 00:01:46,160 Speaker 1: can you recall a moment where you had an epiphany, 26 00:01:46,480 --> 00:01:51,400 Speaker 1: a sudden flash of insider revelation that reversed a deep 27 00:01:51,440 --> 00:01:56,200 Speaker 1: seated certainty about something you believed for all or most 28 00:01:56,240 --> 00:01:59,080 Speaker 1: of your life? As has that ever happened? Do you? 29 00:01:59,080 --> 00:02:03,200 Speaker 1: Guys mad at me? You've spoken about your experience often. Yeah, yeah, 30 00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:06,800 Speaker 1: it happen to me in college. Uh, just rethought the 31 00:02:06,880 --> 00:02:10,280 Speaker 1: way I viewed religion and the way religion kind of 32 00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:16,000 Speaker 1: had a control over my general thought process and my 33 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:20,040 Speaker 1: willingness to explore certain topics. So yeah, that that was 34 00:02:20,080 --> 00:02:22,680 Speaker 1: a long time ago. Most recently, though, I watched the 35 00:02:22,680 --> 00:02:27,320 Speaker 1: movie Moonfall, and I completely rethought the idea of the 36 00:02:27,360 --> 00:02:32,840 Speaker 1: moon as a moon and not a spatian. I thought 37 00:02:32,840 --> 00:02:36,000 Speaker 1: you were going to say, I completely rethought the idea 38 00:02:36,040 --> 00:02:41,440 Speaker 1: of being a filmmaker. Yeah, yeah it was. Look, look 39 00:02:42,320 --> 00:02:47,160 Speaker 1: it wasn't m hm. You may love Moonfall out there, Uh, 40 00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:50,680 Speaker 1: but it was. It was tough for me to watch. 41 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:54,399 Speaker 1: But the concepts we're saying that science didn't check out 42 00:02:54,560 --> 00:03:01,400 Speaker 1: fully return the script or the acting. But it's very difficult. 43 00:03:01,760 --> 00:03:03,959 Speaker 1: It's very difficult to make a film. There are a 44 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:07,560 Speaker 1: lot of moving parts. And if you have ever made 45 00:03:07,560 --> 00:03:11,040 Speaker 1: a film, whether it's a critics darling, a blockbuster, or 46 00:03:11,080 --> 00:03:13,800 Speaker 1: just something you got to show to your friends, then 47 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:16,560 Speaker 1: it is something to be proud of, and you should 48 00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:19,200 Speaker 1: be proud of yourself for that. But what what we're 49 00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:24,160 Speaker 1: what we're saying is, it's what Matt's describing here is 50 00:03:24,400 --> 00:03:30,959 Speaker 1: a relatively rare experience for most of humanity because, as 51 00:03:31,000 --> 00:03:35,400 Speaker 1: we'll find, your brain, if you are human, likes to 52 00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:38,480 Speaker 1: be your hype man in a lot of ways. Even 53 00:03:38,520 --> 00:03:41,960 Speaker 1: when it sounds like it's it's being very rude to 54 00:03:42,000 --> 00:03:46,160 Speaker 1: you and uh telling you catastrophic things that are not true, 55 00:03:46,480 --> 00:03:48,880 Speaker 1: your brain wants to is doing that because it wants 56 00:03:48,920 --> 00:03:52,720 Speaker 1: to confirm stuff. Your brain likes to be right. I mean, 57 00:03:52,760 --> 00:03:55,280 Speaker 1: that's why if you look at it from another way, 58 00:03:55,440 --> 00:03:58,800 Speaker 1: you could say, um, if you have not had a 59 00:03:58,840 --> 00:04:05,040 Speaker 1: moment of evolation or Eureka experience, then you have doubtlessly 60 00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:09,600 Speaker 1: found yourself banging your head against a cognitive wall trying 61 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:13,040 Speaker 1: your best to talk someone off the ledge of craziness. 62 00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:19,719 Speaker 1: Uncle Mike, you might be saying the world is indeed round. Okay, 63 00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:23,360 Speaker 1: let's just get through Thanksgiving. But bro, come on, read 64 00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:26,400 Speaker 1: a book. Uh you might airplanes, man, you know, I 65 00:04:26,400 --> 00:04:28,360 Speaker 1: mean if it was around? How come when I take 66 00:04:28,360 --> 00:04:30,919 Speaker 1: a flight, I don't see the curvature of the earth. 67 00:04:31,520 --> 00:04:34,080 Speaker 1: You know. Put that in your pipe and smoke it 68 00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:38,200 Speaker 1: because you're flying spirit and the planes are really slow? 69 00:04:38,360 --> 00:04:43,400 Speaker 1: Uh the spirit? Uh this is a side. Uh. You 70 00:04:43,480 --> 00:04:46,360 Speaker 1: might know the facts are on your side. You might 71 00:04:47,680 --> 00:04:53,719 Speaker 1: have physically printed out studies right, And try as you might, 72 00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:56,280 Speaker 1: you can't get the other person to listen. That has 73 00:04:56,320 --> 00:04:59,040 Speaker 1: happened to everybody at some point in their lives. And 74 00:04:59,080 --> 00:05:04,240 Speaker 1: that's the heart of to Day's episode. Why is skepticism difficult? 75 00:05:04,640 --> 00:05:08,200 Speaker 1: How do we function as skeptics? How do we like 76 00:05:08,360 --> 00:05:14,440 Speaker 1: the Jedi practice that that sort of not even ideology, 77 00:05:14,480 --> 00:05:18,120 Speaker 1: but approach to the world. Spoiler, It's not as easy 78 00:05:18,279 --> 00:05:20,359 Speaker 1: as it might sound because a lot of people have 79 00:05:20,440 --> 00:05:26,120 Speaker 1: basic facts about skepticism wrong, and your brain doesn't like 80 00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:34,920 Speaker 1: skepticism that here are the facts. Yeah, often on this show, 81 00:05:35,000 --> 00:05:38,680 Speaker 1: and I think in a lot of maybe the conspiracy realm, 82 00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:43,120 Speaker 1: the word skeptic alone functions as a thought terminating cliche, 83 00:05:43,279 --> 00:05:46,600 Speaker 1: the way the term conspiracy theory because of thought terminating 84 00:05:46,600 --> 00:05:52,120 Speaker 1: cliche within the skeptical uh halls of the world, um, 85 00:05:52,520 --> 00:05:55,440 Speaker 1: which is the opposite of what skepticism should be if 86 00:05:55,480 --> 00:06:00,000 Speaker 1: precisely precisely and on both ends, I think we shouldn't 87 00:06:01,080 --> 00:06:05,279 Speaker 1: view those terms. But it gets a bad rap. Yeah, 88 00:06:05,320 --> 00:06:07,320 Speaker 1: like the idea of skeptic being kind of a perma 89 00:06:07,360 --> 00:06:10,760 Speaker 1: grump who just questions everything to a fault. It doesn't 90 00:06:10,760 --> 00:06:13,240 Speaker 1: really seek truth. It's just more out to kind of 91 00:06:13,560 --> 00:06:18,560 Speaker 1: debunk and actually people m m yeah. And for an 92 00:06:18,560 --> 00:06:22,480 Speaker 1: explanation there. We have dealt with this. I think we've 93 00:06:22,480 --> 00:06:26,680 Speaker 1: talked about in this show. Our colleagues on all the 94 00:06:26,720 --> 00:06:31,080 Speaker 1: Stuff shows. We had this moment of reckoning a while back, 95 00:06:31,240 --> 00:06:35,080 Speaker 1: or at least I feel like I did, where we said, oh, 96 00:06:35,240 --> 00:06:39,040 Speaker 1: we don't sound normal when we talk to people outside 97 00:06:39,040 --> 00:06:42,080 Speaker 1: of our little nerd bubble, because when you start a 98 00:06:42,120 --> 00:06:46,240 Speaker 1: sentence with actually, it becomes a thought terminating thing right 99 00:06:46,279 --> 00:06:49,520 Speaker 1: in conversation, and a lot of people are not going 100 00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:53,680 Speaker 1: to take the information you are attempting to relay as 101 00:06:53,720 --> 00:06:56,080 Speaker 1: though you are speaking as an equal. They will find 102 00:06:56,120 --> 00:07:01,640 Speaker 1: you condescending and pedantic. Uh so without actually in people, 103 00:07:01,960 --> 00:07:04,040 Speaker 1: and we've turned it to a verb because it's American 104 00:07:04,040 --> 00:07:08,240 Speaker 1: English and everything will inevitably become a verb. Uh. I 105 00:07:08,279 --> 00:07:13,040 Speaker 1: think we've described skepticism the way it's perceived very well here, 106 00:07:13,760 --> 00:07:18,880 Speaker 1: and the problem is that is a misperception that's incorrect. Skeptic. 107 00:07:19,080 --> 00:07:22,520 Speaker 1: What people are describing when they talk about perma grumps 108 00:07:22,520 --> 00:07:27,800 Speaker 1: like that is really cynicism. You're describing a cynic Skepticism 109 00:07:27,840 --> 00:07:33,040 Speaker 1: by comparison and contrast, is much less aggro. It is 110 00:07:33,080 --> 00:07:37,160 Speaker 1: a key part of the critical thought process if you 111 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:39,480 Speaker 1: look back at the etymology. You know, we all love 112 00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:44,080 Speaker 1: etymology here. Skeptic is derived from the Greek. That's derived 113 00:07:44,120 --> 00:07:48,480 Speaker 1: from the Greek words skepticals, which literally just means look 114 00:07:48,520 --> 00:07:52,240 Speaker 1: around or inquiring. And all that means is, if you're 115 00:07:52,240 --> 00:08:00,960 Speaker 1: a skeptic, you're determining the truth of something objectively based 116 00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:04,200 Speaker 1: on the level of evidence, right, just not taking things 117 00:08:04,200 --> 00:08:06,360 Speaker 1: at face value, you know, giving it a little bit 118 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:10,000 Speaker 1: of an extra think before you jump into a you know, 119 00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:14,120 Speaker 1: ideology or concept or even the story or yet to 120 00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:17,440 Speaker 1: fully explore what's being laid at your feet when new 121 00:08:17,480 --> 00:08:20,600 Speaker 1: information is coming at you, right, not to just go 122 00:08:20,720 --> 00:08:27,120 Speaker 1: okay or not to go no. Right, that's the thing, 123 00:08:27,280 --> 00:08:29,760 Speaker 1: and and it's weird because a lot of people in 124 00:08:29,840 --> 00:08:34,120 Speaker 1: the age of the Internet who identify themselves as skeptics 125 00:08:34,440 --> 00:08:39,120 Speaker 1: are committing that latter sin. You just describe that very 126 00:08:39,280 --> 00:08:45,440 Speaker 1: non skeptic, very cynical idea of uhh no way. You 127 00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:49,240 Speaker 1: know what I mean, And there's you have to earn 128 00:08:49,280 --> 00:08:52,720 Speaker 1: an uh no way, just like a sketch comedy show 129 00:08:52,840 --> 00:08:54,760 Speaker 1: has to go for a couple of seasons before they 130 00:08:54,760 --> 00:08:59,280 Speaker 1: earn a good serious moment. Uh. Sadly, this nuance is 131 00:08:59,360 --> 00:09:04,760 Speaker 1: often missed, right you. I love what what you're saying here, Matt, 132 00:09:04,840 --> 00:09:08,080 Speaker 1: because it goes back to something called the Socratic method, 133 00:09:08,320 --> 00:09:13,200 Speaker 1: which is asking generative questions right in a in a 134 00:09:14,559 --> 00:09:16,319 Speaker 1: you might have to bleep me a couple of times 135 00:09:16,320 --> 00:09:20,640 Speaker 1: in this episode, Paul, in a non way. That's important. 136 00:09:20,720 --> 00:09:23,960 Speaker 1: Don't ask questions, don't be a dick about asking questions. 137 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:28,440 Speaker 1: Be sincere and genuine in your exploration. There's nothing wrong 138 00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:31,560 Speaker 1: with saying, Okay, if X is true, whatever X is, 139 00:09:31,880 --> 00:09:35,600 Speaker 1: then what about why? And then if why is not true? 140 00:09:36,080 --> 00:09:39,800 Speaker 1: What does that change about my understanding of X? Yeah? 141 00:09:39,800 --> 00:09:41,560 Speaker 1: I mean, the Socratic method is kind of like the 142 00:09:41,679 --> 00:09:46,560 Speaker 1: scientific method for conversation or just for like interpreting data 143 00:09:46,679 --> 00:09:49,440 Speaker 1: about the world. I mean, it really is about test trust, 144 00:09:49,480 --> 00:09:53,000 Speaker 1: but verify, you know, and uh, and test things, maybe 145 00:09:53,080 --> 00:09:56,040 Speaker 1: not using the same kind of methods you would in science, 146 00:09:56,440 --> 00:09:59,640 Speaker 1: but asking the right questions, digging a little deeper, doing 147 00:09:59,640 --> 00:10:05,760 Speaker 1: your own homework, and good conversations I believe are well, 148 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:08,280 Speaker 1: this is a belief I may have to challenge. Uh. 149 00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:17,200 Speaker 1: Good conversations are in my mind, uh, based on honest 150 00:10:17,320 --> 00:10:22,079 Speaker 1: and well thought out questions, right, and building upon those questions. 151 00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:26,319 Speaker 1: The thing is is a big secret of the world 152 00:10:26,440 --> 00:10:30,080 Speaker 1: that a lot of really polemical people don't want you 153 00:10:30,120 --> 00:10:35,040 Speaker 1: to know. The vast majority of human beings are intelligent 154 00:10:35,480 --> 00:10:40,760 Speaker 1: and curious and generally good people. When they're given the 155 00:10:40,800 --> 00:10:45,320 Speaker 1: access to necessary information and a safe environment in which 156 00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:50,120 Speaker 1: they can digest that information, they're gonna impress you, and 157 00:10:50,120 --> 00:10:52,440 Speaker 1: you're gonna you're gonna think, hey, that's a good egg, 158 00:10:52,720 --> 00:10:57,200 Speaker 1: that's a smart person. Unfortunately, for so many reasons, a 159 00:10:57,320 --> 00:11:01,200 Speaker 1: lot of people do not have that access information, and 160 00:11:01,320 --> 00:11:06,200 Speaker 1: more importantly, they don't have a safe, unbiased environment to 161 00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:09,440 Speaker 1: explore that information, and as a result, a lot of 162 00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:16,320 Speaker 1: people believe really weird, weird, weird. I mean, I would 163 00:11:16,400 --> 00:11:21,679 Speaker 1: argue that people by and large do have access to, 164 00:11:22,559 --> 00:11:25,440 Speaker 1: you know, the vast majority of all of the information 165 00:11:25,600 --> 00:11:28,600 Speaker 1: of time and memorial. You know, it's just a matter 166 00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:32,360 Speaker 1: of where their beliefs and those surrounding them, as you said, 167 00:11:32,360 --> 00:11:36,080 Speaker 1: man are steering them. Yeah, people who have access to 168 00:11:36,120 --> 00:11:39,319 Speaker 1: a phone right and internet service on that phone or 169 00:11:39,360 --> 00:11:41,400 Speaker 1: a computer or something like that. But that's not true 170 00:11:41,480 --> 00:11:45,079 Speaker 1: for everyone on this planet. There are a couple of barriers, 171 00:11:45,160 --> 00:11:47,720 Speaker 1: for sure, But I think we can all agree that 172 00:11:47,760 --> 00:11:52,680 Speaker 1: the main, uh, the main issue is the environment in 173 00:11:52,720 --> 00:11:58,000 Speaker 1: which that information is encountered and the different variables intervening 174 00:11:58,080 --> 00:12:03,560 Speaker 1: variables that allow people allow people intellectual freedom to explore 175 00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:07,120 Speaker 1: those things. I mean, okay, so you know, it's a 176 00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:10,040 Speaker 1: glass planet. I just fell in love with that phrase 177 00:12:10,040 --> 00:12:12,880 Speaker 1: when day we're freestyling it. But it's a glass planet. 178 00:12:12,920 --> 00:12:18,080 Speaker 1: So a lot of people, from Henry Kissinger on down 179 00:12:19,040 --> 00:12:23,840 Speaker 1: believe dumb things, and they believe things that might sound 180 00:12:23,880 --> 00:12:28,200 Speaker 1: weird outsiders, you know, think of superstitions. You're a kid, 181 00:12:28,520 --> 00:12:31,920 Speaker 1: you're walking along the sidewalk. You don't want your mother 182 00:12:32,040 --> 00:12:34,959 Speaker 1: to be crippled by a back injury, so you don't 183 00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:40,559 Speaker 1: step on cracks that has no medical impact on your mom. 184 00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:44,000 Speaker 1: I can't believe we're getting to your mom references sorely. 185 00:12:44,200 --> 00:12:47,640 Speaker 1: But but you're not ruining the world, you know what 186 00:12:47,679 --> 00:12:52,480 Speaker 1: I mean. There's not a nuclear catastrophe because you avoided 187 00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:56,240 Speaker 1: panels on the sidewalk. You're not hurting anyone. I mean, 188 00:12:56,320 --> 00:12:59,160 Speaker 1: unless you're not paying attention to those around you, and you, 189 00:12:59,160 --> 00:13:02,080 Speaker 1: you know, cause someone else to trip. Perhaps there you go, 190 00:13:02,400 --> 00:13:04,640 Speaker 1: there you go. Yeah, all you have to do is 191 00:13:04,679 --> 00:13:08,160 Speaker 1: take a little trip down the clubhouse lane and you 192 00:13:08,200 --> 00:13:14,920 Speaker 1: will figure out how weird stuff is. Uh, oh, my goodness. 193 00:13:14,960 --> 00:13:20,959 Speaker 1: You guys haven't experienced that amount of out there info 194 00:13:21,120 --> 00:13:24,720 Speaker 1: being you know, said as though it's just absolutely correct 195 00:13:24,760 --> 00:13:28,679 Speaker 1: and true in a long time. I gotta tell you, 196 00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:31,400 Speaker 1: I was in a conversation the clubhouse when it's going 197 00:13:31,520 --> 00:13:36,280 Speaker 1: on there more often, where I did my best in 198 00:13:36,320 --> 00:13:41,920 Speaker 1: a diplomatic way to present what I thought was a 199 00:13:42,040 --> 00:13:48,120 Speaker 1: very a very kind um rebuttal to some crazy stuff 200 00:13:48,160 --> 00:13:53,240 Speaker 1: I heard. And the response to my rebuttal was the 201 00:13:53,320 --> 00:14:00,240 Speaker 1: devil comes in an appealing shape and speaks in fine form. 202 00:14:00,280 --> 00:14:10,000 Speaker 1: And then twelve other people were like, yeah, no, yeah, right, Well, 203 00:14:10,720 --> 00:14:13,400 Speaker 1: well it was a fun conversation. I mean, the thing 204 00:14:13,520 --> 00:14:17,480 Speaker 1: is we're talking then about the role of social dynamics 205 00:14:17,480 --> 00:14:22,320 Speaker 1: and culture. Right. You might live in a world or 206 00:14:22,360 --> 00:14:26,840 Speaker 1: participate in a community that will actively shun or punish 207 00:14:26,880 --> 00:14:31,200 Speaker 1: you for not participating in something that you know is 208 00:14:31,360 --> 00:14:34,200 Speaker 1: dumb or incorrect. And maybe I shouldn't even say dumb. 209 00:14:35,040 --> 00:14:38,840 Speaker 1: Problem is, throughout history there are no exceptions to this rule. 210 00:14:39,320 --> 00:14:42,520 Speaker 1: As we established in our earlier episode on the human 211 00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:47,160 Speaker 1: Brain or earlier series, your brain is brilliant if you're 212 00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:51,640 Speaker 1: a human, is fundamentally wired to recognize patterns, so much 213 00:14:51,720 --> 00:14:56,320 Speaker 1: so that the mind makes patterns where none exist. This 214 00:14:56,400 --> 00:14:59,000 Speaker 1: is also a huge part of the reason that a 215 00:14:59,040 --> 00:15:03,720 Speaker 1: lot of people are pred it is for or against something. Uh, 216 00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:07,520 Speaker 1: logic be damned, you know, and and and scientists have 217 00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:10,600 Speaker 1: traced the nuts and bolts of this. They got under 218 00:15:10,640 --> 00:15:14,360 Speaker 1: the hood of the human mind, and they found the 219 00:15:14,440 --> 00:15:19,880 Speaker 1: region of the brain that keeps playing these pranks. Yes, 220 00:15:20,240 --> 00:15:24,440 Speaker 1: that part in question here, UH is the posterior medial 221 00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:27,920 Speaker 1: prefrontal cortex, and it is the part of the brain 222 00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:33,400 Speaker 1: that is involved in evaluating and absorbing other people's ideas. Um. 223 00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:35,680 Speaker 1: And as you pointed, out in. It really wants to 224 00:15:35,760 --> 00:15:41,040 Speaker 1: kind of maintain uh, cognitive equilibrium, you know. Um. It 225 00:15:41,080 --> 00:15:44,600 Speaker 1: does not like cognitive dissonance, which I guess is the 226 00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:47,480 Speaker 1: the alternative. It really wants to make you feel like 227 00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:51,360 Speaker 1: everything is cool. You understand yourself and the way you 228 00:15:51,400 --> 00:15:53,600 Speaker 1: relate to those around you and the world around you, 229 00:15:53,840 --> 00:15:56,400 Speaker 1: and it will play some some tricks on you in 230 00:15:56,520 --> 00:16:01,520 Speaker 1: order to achieve that result. No, think about identifying a 231 00:16:01,680 --> 00:16:06,000 Speaker 1: leopard out on a plane somewhere. Is there a leopard 232 00:16:06,560 --> 00:16:09,280 Speaker 1: in that tree, behind that tree, in that grass? Is 233 00:16:09,320 --> 00:16:12,800 Speaker 1: there one? It certainly doesn't look like there's one. Well, 234 00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:16,680 Speaker 1: how does the human brain evolved to figure out when 235 00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:20,080 Speaker 1: there is a natural predator hanging out and watching you 236 00:16:20,560 --> 00:16:23,800 Speaker 1: and you can't see them easily at least? Or is 237 00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:26,720 Speaker 1: it just a leopard of the mind and there's an 238 00:16:26,760 --> 00:16:32,120 Speaker 1: evolutionary incentive for that, there's a cost benefit ratio, right. 239 00:16:32,160 --> 00:16:35,880 Speaker 1: It's it's quite her calculation. Rather, it's quite brutal. The 240 00:16:36,120 --> 00:16:40,240 Speaker 1: people who thought they saw a leopard, even when there 241 00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:45,840 Speaker 1: wasn't a leopard, still avoided leopards. The people who said, ah, no, 242 00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:49,160 Speaker 1: that's just some weird uh play of light and shadow 243 00:16:49,640 --> 00:16:55,640 Speaker 1: and then were attacked and died. They didn't reproduces anymore 244 00:16:55,680 --> 00:17:00,280 Speaker 1: at least anymore at least and so we see that 245 00:17:00,440 --> 00:17:05,000 Speaker 1: there is a higher likelihood for this kind of mechanism 246 00:17:05,320 --> 00:17:08,480 Speaker 1: to evolve, and today it plays a huge role in 247 00:17:08,520 --> 00:17:11,879 Speaker 1: the decision making process. It's a gift and a curse. 248 00:17:12,200 --> 00:17:14,960 Speaker 1: Just like having a lot of money in a capitalist society, 249 00:17:15,320 --> 00:17:18,199 Speaker 1: the same mechanisms that allows you to survive in the 250 00:17:18,240 --> 00:17:23,439 Speaker 1: wild can screw up your thought processes in the modern world. 251 00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:26,879 Speaker 1: And you know, don't worry. It gets weirder because, in 252 00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:33,720 Speaker 1: addition to loving patterns, your human brain also creates feedback 253 00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:39,080 Speaker 1: loops of affirmation. If someone seems very confident about something 254 00:17:39,119 --> 00:17:42,360 Speaker 1: that you already sort of agree with, then you are 255 00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:47,080 Speaker 1: all aboard, buddy, and you're probably not going to have 256 00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:50,439 Speaker 1: a moment of thought where you say, well, I should 257 00:17:50,440 --> 00:17:52,919 Speaker 1: look into that. No one's immune to this. If I 258 00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:57,199 Speaker 1: saw a very charismatic person, uh, just taking over the 259 00:17:57,200 --> 00:18:00,280 Speaker 1: air waves of mass media and all they want to 260 00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:03,919 Speaker 1: say was that case ideas were awesome, I might not 261 00:18:04,080 --> 00:18:07,240 Speaker 1: do a whole lot of research into that person. And I, 262 00:18:07,320 --> 00:18:10,800 Speaker 1: like many people, like to think that I'm okay in 263 00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:13,560 Speaker 1: the intelligence game. Well, and on the flip side. If 264 00:18:13,600 --> 00:18:17,280 Speaker 1: you see a person who you already trust and who 265 00:18:17,320 --> 00:18:20,320 Speaker 1: has been right in the past or has said things 266 00:18:20,440 --> 00:18:23,280 Speaker 1: that you've found to be accurate and aligning with your 267 00:18:23,320 --> 00:18:29,080 Speaker 1: personal beliefs, say something that maybe stretches credibility ever so slightly, 268 00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:32,280 Speaker 1: you'd be much more likely to just take it at 269 00:18:32,320 --> 00:18:34,919 Speaker 1: face value rather than do your own homework, because you've 270 00:18:34,960 --> 00:18:38,080 Speaker 1: already your brains already taken that shortcut of believing in 271 00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:41,600 Speaker 1: this person and believing the things this person says, because hell, 272 00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:44,560 Speaker 1: they've been right in the past. And uh, I've based 273 00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:47,239 Speaker 1: my decisions on this person's rhetoric in the past. Why 274 00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:50,399 Speaker 1: would they, you know, do me wrong? Now? Yeah, this 275 00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:53,359 Speaker 1: guy is right. For this guy was right about case 276 00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:55,560 Speaker 1: and he is. He's on the money there. Maybe I 277 00:18:55,560 --> 00:18:58,320 Speaker 1: should rethink my opinion about the shape of the planet Earth. 278 00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:02,280 Speaker 1: WHOA what of that ultra confident guy stood up one 279 00:19:02,359 --> 00:19:04,480 Speaker 1: day in a meeting and said, the world is both 280 00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:17,000 Speaker 1: understandable and what what did he say? Understanding? That's great though, 281 00:19:17,040 --> 00:19:19,520 Speaker 1: it sounds so good man, and I think we would 282 00:19:19,640 --> 00:19:21,159 Speaker 1: we I think we can all agree with that. And 283 00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:24,719 Speaker 1: there's nothing inherently controversial in a statement like that, you know, 284 00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:28,200 Speaker 1: But that's the thing about rhetoric. You know, you can 285 00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:31,880 Speaker 1: have something that is on the edge that's just innocuous 286 00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:34,280 Speaker 1: enough to be like, yeah, of course, but there might 287 00:19:34,320 --> 00:19:38,439 Speaker 1: be this grain of pushing you over that cognitive cliff 288 00:19:38,560 --> 00:19:41,720 Speaker 1: that you don't even notice. Yeah, but it's priming as well. 289 00:19:41,760 --> 00:19:43,920 Speaker 1: And I think that's I think that's a great point, Noel. 290 00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:49,600 Speaker 1: And I'm just still I've just tickled Matt because you 291 00:19:49,760 --> 00:19:57,080 Speaker 1: pointed out a beautiful weaponization of information that I learned 292 00:19:57,160 --> 00:20:01,080 Speaker 1: from the guy we all know and then used uh often. 293 00:20:01,680 --> 00:20:06,800 Speaker 1: Uh No, apologies, but this what we're describing should like 294 00:20:06,920 --> 00:20:09,879 Speaker 1: hopefully this is something all of us listening today can 295 00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:13,840 Speaker 1: identify with. This is also why to the point about 296 00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:16,200 Speaker 1: the flip side, this is why people with a really 297 00:20:16,240 --> 00:20:21,880 Speaker 1: strong opinion on sports, or politics or religion, they'll tend 298 00:20:21,960 --> 00:20:27,800 Speaker 1: to reject information that challenges their existing notions, that hits 299 00:20:27,920 --> 00:20:31,920 Speaker 1: against those feedback loops of the brain, and then they'll 300 00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:37,280 Speaker 1: prioritize information that appears to confirm what they already thought. 301 00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:41,159 Speaker 1: And this is not just uh for folks on a 302 00:20:41,240 --> 00:20:45,840 Speaker 1: podcast saying this. A lot of assiduous study has gone 303 00:20:45,960 --> 00:20:49,240 Speaker 1: into this. There was uh study from twenty nineteen that 304 00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:51,680 Speaker 1: I think speaks to this directly. Yeah. I mean a 305 00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:55,000 Speaker 1: lot of this too just speaks to just like the effort. 306 00:20:55,520 --> 00:20:58,080 Speaker 1: You know, it's it's harder. It makes you kind of 307 00:20:58,119 --> 00:21:01,399 Speaker 1: have to redo everything and re think everything. We've already 308 00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:03,359 Speaker 1: put all this work in. Why would I want to 309 00:21:03,359 --> 00:21:05,600 Speaker 1: have to, like, you know, start from scratch. And I 310 00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:10,080 Speaker 1: think this Nature Neuroscience study to a degree speaks to this. 311 00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:11,320 Speaker 1: Now do you want to you want you were going 312 00:21:11,359 --> 00:21:13,840 Speaker 1: to go into this? I think this one really got you. 313 00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:16,800 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, this one got me so hard. It comes 314 00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:19,920 Speaker 1: from Nature Neuroscience, as you said, been from twenty nineteen. 315 00:21:20,280 --> 00:21:22,879 Speaker 1: They were they looked really hard at confirmation bias, What 316 00:21:23,080 --> 00:21:25,560 Speaker 1: is it? Why is it so powerful? And they found 317 00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:29,600 Speaker 1: that humans quote tend to discount information that undermines past 318 00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:34,679 Speaker 1: choices and judgments. This confirmation bias has significant impact on 319 00:21:34,800 --> 00:21:40,280 Speaker 1: domains ranging from politics to science and education. Yeah, yep. 320 00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:47,800 Speaker 1: Shout out to our episode about about how large corporations 321 00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:51,800 Speaker 1: twisted the game on recycling. A lot of people, a 322 00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:55,000 Speaker 1: lot of our fellow listeners didn't like to hear that, right, 323 00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:58,680 Speaker 1: but it is true. Uh, and it's just unfortunately it's 324 00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:01,600 Speaker 1: interrupting a feed back loop or disrupting would be a 325 00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:05,080 Speaker 1: better word. Belief formation is a hell of a drug, right. 326 00:22:05,280 --> 00:22:08,280 Speaker 1: People don't like to be wrong. This is why you 327 00:22:08,320 --> 00:22:12,600 Speaker 1: see countless examples throughout history of someone coming to the 328 00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:16,680 Speaker 1: table with pretty hard evidence of something. It literally does 329 00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:21,679 Speaker 1: not matter what that evidence is if it contradicts the 330 00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:26,920 Speaker 1: social morays, the shared values and beliefs of that society. 331 00:22:27,240 --> 00:22:30,040 Speaker 1: So like, this is this is so basic, This is 332 00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:35,080 Speaker 1: um This is galileo, right. This is people arguing about 333 00:22:35,119 --> 00:22:39,440 Speaker 1: astronomical truths that do not have opinions, and their evidence 334 00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:43,560 Speaker 1: is ignored or dismissed because they have questioned things that 335 00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:47,320 Speaker 1: were not allowed to be questioned or can't even know. 336 00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:49,280 Speaker 1: If you take it to a slightly more modern example, 337 00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:53,480 Speaker 1: like in the Soviet Union during the Chernobyl uh catastrophe, 338 00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:57,320 Speaker 1: you know, scientists and people literally working at the Chernobyl 339 00:22:57,320 --> 00:23:00,600 Speaker 1: plant came to the government and said, this thing has happened. 340 00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:04,400 Speaker 1: It will result in you know, nuclear fallout being carried 341 00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:07,119 Speaker 1: far and wide. We should do something about it, to 342 00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:10,520 Speaker 1: which the government replied, no, it didn't, and no we 343 00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:16,160 Speaker 1: won't because it would undermine the inherent truth of our 344 00:23:16,359 --> 00:23:19,080 Speaker 1: perception of what the government is. What we do and 345 00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:21,480 Speaker 1: what we don't do. And even though I mean it 346 00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:25,920 Speaker 1: was based inherently on fact, the way they, uh, we're 347 00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:29,720 Speaker 1: reacted to it was by saying, essentially what we say 348 00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:32,680 Speaker 1: is true. So if if we don't, if we say 349 00:23:32,720 --> 00:23:35,880 Speaker 1: this isn't true, then it isn't true. That's an extreme example, 350 00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:37,800 Speaker 1: but I think that very much falls in line with 351 00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:43,040 Speaker 1: what we're talking about here. Yeah, Unfortunately, you can see 352 00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:50,320 Speaker 1: these tendencies in every single human civilization, throughout every single 353 00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:55,040 Speaker 1: moment in human history. So what gives it turns out 354 00:23:55,040 --> 00:24:00,320 Speaker 1: folks are very susceptible to how information is communicated. Will 355 00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:03,640 Speaker 1: pause for a word from our sponsors, and then we're 356 00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:06,439 Speaker 1: gonna return and talk just a little bit more about 357 00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:09,440 Speaker 1: this study to set up the best ways that you 358 00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:20,320 Speaker 1: can practice skepticism, and we're back. Hey, guys, just really quickly. 359 00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:22,320 Speaker 1: I want to point something out that's happening right now 360 00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:25,960 Speaker 1: in the news that I feel like I think illustrates 361 00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:31,000 Speaker 1: this pretty well, and it is the the classified documents 362 00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:35,040 Speaker 1: that were found within the Biden camps thing. Because I 363 00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:39,600 Speaker 1: think it's challenging. Yeah, but I think it's challenging people's beliefs, 364 00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:41,639 Speaker 1: especially if you're you know, on one side of the 365 00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:44,400 Speaker 1: political spectrum, like, that's something the other side does, that's 366 00:24:44,440 --> 00:24:47,359 Speaker 1: something bad guy does. Oh well, now that my team 367 00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:50,479 Speaker 1: does this too. Oh wait, what's happening now is it's 368 00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:53,359 Speaker 1: the same, and it's just really kind of wreaking havoc 369 00:24:53,400 --> 00:24:57,760 Speaker 1: within a lot of people's minds. I think I'm really 370 00:24:57,800 --> 00:25:00,880 Speaker 1: glad you mentioned this because you'll see that we'll we'll 371 00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:03,000 Speaker 1: talk about this too later in this episode. You can 372 00:25:03,040 --> 00:25:06,800 Speaker 1: see the same story reported very different ways. Yes, you 373 00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:10,960 Speaker 1: you see Karl Rove essentially defending Biden on Fox News 374 00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:14,080 Speaker 1: saying it wasn't the same hung on with Trump, and 375 00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:16,560 Speaker 1: he drew it on like a whiteboard and said, like 376 00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:20,680 Speaker 1: a it was a long time ago. Clearly was an oversight, 377 00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:23,680 Speaker 1: be they cooperated immediately. But I mean, like, how weird 378 00:25:23,800 --> 00:25:27,880 Speaker 1: is that talking about cognitive dissens the architect of the 379 00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:32,399 Speaker 1: the oppositions, you know, whole political ideology is defending the enemy. 380 00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:35,240 Speaker 1: But but it just it really depends on where your 381 00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:38,720 Speaker 1: beliefs and kind of loyalties lie and how you're going 382 00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:40,879 Speaker 1: to take in this information, and really what you were 383 00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:43,560 Speaker 1: saying at the top bend which information you end up 384 00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:46,640 Speaker 1: taking in, and then how that changes, how you think 385 00:25:46,680 --> 00:25:50,000 Speaker 1: about it. What a great example met because this also like, 386 00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:53,639 Speaker 1: this is something you may have Your mileage may vary, folks, 387 00:25:53,680 --> 00:25:56,760 Speaker 1: but this is something you may have encountered. Uh. What 388 00:25:56,960 --> 00:25:59,879 Speaker 1: happens when when you run into piece of news the 389 00:26:00,280 --> 00:26:04,080 Speaker 1: confirms a pre existing belief is you are far less 390 00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:07,520 Speaker 1: likely to say, let me find out more. Let me 391 00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:10,280 Speaker 1: read the original source, right, let me see a timeline, 392 00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:13,080 Speaker 1: let me know what kind in this case, what sort 393 00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:16,480 Speaker 1: of classified documents, how long were they held, etcetera, etcetera. 394 00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:20,720 Speaker 1: If you read something and you are maybe pro biden, 395 00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:25,159 Speaker 1: then you could just stop at that one news piece 396 00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:27,560 Speaker 1: and say, oh, they found it, they fixed it. That's 397 00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:31,240 Speaker 1: great because I was right, you know. But that's that's 398 00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:35,919 Speaker 1: unfortunately not what people should be doing. And this study 399 00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:41,160 Speaker 1: proves this kind of thing. So that nature neuroscience study 400 00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:47,520 Speaker 1: shows that confidence of a speaker has a clear role. 401 00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:51,600 Speaker 1: There's a reason that you will very seldomly see uh 402 00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:56,000 Speaker 1: public figures say they've had a change of heart. If 403 00:26:56,040 --> 00:27:02,280 Speaker 1: you are an intellectually unpracticed person or an insecure person, 404 00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:05,679 Speaker 1: then you probably think a lot about the concept of weakness, 405 00:27:05,920 --> 00:27:09,520 Speaker 1: which is not the right way to approach anything intellectually. 406 00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:13,600 Speaker 1: The the idea that someone could change their mind is 407 00:27:13,640 --> 00:27:18,159 Speaker 1: not weakness. It shows that their mind is active. But still, 408 00:27:18,200 --> 00:27:23,560 Speaker 1: people love confidence, right, So if you already believe something 409 00:27:24,040 --> 00:27:28,439 Speaker 1: and someone seems very strident and confident when they're telling 410 00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:31,240 Speaker 1: you something that you already sort of agree with, even 411 00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:34,240 Speaker 1: if to your point, Noll, it's a little bit further 412 00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:39,560 Speaker 1: past that ordinary conversation, then you're going to agree with them. 413 00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:42,360 Speaker 1: That part of your cortex is going to fire up 414 00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:45,840 Speaker 1: and say, buddy, we're cooking with gas. It also kind 415 00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:49,800 Speaker 1: of matters how tall they are. It does, It does 416 00:27:49,920 --> 00:27:54,040 Speaker 1: since the advent of television. Uh, in the case of 417 00:27:54,119 --> 00:27:58,880 Speaker 1: US presidents in specific, height has mattered physical height as 418 00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:02,119 Speaker 1: well as the apps and some facial hair. There's probably 419 00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:06,000 Speaker 1: not going to be a bearded president of the US 420 00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:14,880 Speaker 1: for some time unless the US fundamentally changes. Yeah, he's 421 00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:18,639 Speaker 1: biding his time to destroy us. All Um. It's funny 422 00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:22,639 Speaker 1: because some people do trust a bearded person and then 423 00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:25,240 Speaker 1: think that it's comforting. So it's interesting that, like the 424 00:28:25,880 --> 00:28:29,600 Speaker 1: studies are the greater perspective as the bearded people are untrustworthy. 425 00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:32,200 Speaker 1: But I know plenty of people who find a beard 426 00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:37,920 Speaker 1: very you know, um, calming and when someone beard, I know, 427 00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:39,960 Speaker 1: but I also will say that when someone who has 428 00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:41,800 Speaker 1: had a beard for a long time shaves the beard, 429 00:28:41,880 --> 00:28:45,840 Speaker 1: that breeds distrust. Well, I I mentioned this multiple times 430 00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:48,240 Speaker 1: in previous episodes, and maybe that's what you're referring to. 431 00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:54,760 Speaker 1: The There is a spectrum of perceived trustworthiness for facial hair, 432 00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:58,160 Speaker 1: at least in the West, and it varies across the world. 433 00:28:58,360 --> 00:29:01,920 Speaker 1: Right in general, in the West US, uh, the spectrum 434 00:29:02,080 --> 00:29:07,480 Speaker 1: is clean shaven equals more trustworthy, less experienced. On the 435 00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:11,680 Speaker 1: other side, as ez top level gandalff beard means more experienced, 436 00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:16,440 Speaker 1: less trustworthy, stubble. Kind of like what what Matt and 437 00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:23,440 Speaker 1: I are doing is, at least on my part, Matt uh, calculated, calculated, Yeah, 438 00:29:23,760 --> 00:29:28,200 Speaker 1: trustworthy with an edge, been through some stuff, you know. 439 00:29:28,400 --> 00:29:31,120 Speaker 1: I'll send you the I'll re send the study. Um 440 00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:33,200 Speaker 1: as short as my beard has ever been. So I 441 00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:36,520 Speaker 1: think I'm somewhere in the in the middle. Really good, 442 00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:38,440 Speaker 1: Thank you so much, thank you, Yeah, no stress, you 443 00:29:38,480 --> 00:29:42,719 Speaker 1: look fine, man um. The The issue there is that 444 00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:46,680 Speaker 1: we see all these again, tiny intervening variables that can 445 00:29:46,720 --> 00:29:52,640 Speaker 1: alter your ultimate conscious opinion because you're not thinking of 446 00:29:52,680 --> 00:29:56,120 Speaker 1: all the pre existing beliefs that got ding ding ding, 447 00:29:56,520 --> 00:29:59,000 Speaker 1: just like a game of mouse trap, right, or a 448 00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:03,760 Speaker 1: game of dominoes. And if you agree with this study 449 00:30:03,880 --> 00:30:08,760 Speaker 1: talked about stuff like guessing, like playing zillo, looking at 450 00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:12,400 Speaker 1: photos of a house and guessing the estimate. And if 451 00:30:12,440 --> 00:30:16,280 Speaker 1: the participants that were paired together agreed on the estimate, 452 00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:19,000 Speaker 1: they would sort of hype each other up about how 453 00:30:19,080 --> 00:30:21,800 Speaker 1: right they were, and then that part of their brain 454 00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:26,280 Speaker 1: would start also, you know again uh firing up. If 455 00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:31,120 Speaker 1: they disagreed, their brains did not play this game. And 456 00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:34,120 Speaker 1: so if we can see that with something as innocuous 457 00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:36,840 Speaker 1: as the price of a house, then neither person has 458 00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:40,200 Speaker 1: ever visited and probably never will, then we see that 459 00:30:40,360 --> 00:30:46,200 Speaker 1: opinions that that appear to hype your pre existing beliefs 460 00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:52,240 Speaker 1: bear as much, if not more, influence then facts. That's 461 00:30:52,240 --> 00:30:57,880 Speaker 1: a dangerous tendency. That's why eyewitness reports carry so much 462 00:30:57,920 --> 00:31:01,959 Speaker 1: weight in court, even when and we know that they 463 00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:06,520 Speaker 1: are cartoonishly unreliable. That's why scientists can talk all the 464 00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:11,000 Speaker 1: livelong day about the human species role in climate change 465 00:31:11,160 --> 00:31:13,440 Speaker 1: in the age of the anthroposyne, and then if you 466 00:31:13,440 --> 00:31:17,960 Speaker 1: look at statistics, you'll see that belief in that has 467 00:31:18,040 --> 00:31:22,240 Speaker 1: actually dropped the fixes in. That's what we're saying the 468 00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:25,840 Speaker 1: fixes in. If you are trying to exercise critical thinking, 469 00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:29,400 Speaker 1: you need to know that you are outnumbered. So how 470 00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:32,360 Speaker 1: do you fight against it? If you're like most people 471 00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:36,920 Speaker 1: in a self reported poll hypothetical, we haven't conducted this. 472 00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:39,920 Speaker 1: If you're like most people, someone comes up to you 473 00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:43,920 Speaker 1: and says, hey, do you Someone comes up to you 474 00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:46,040 Speaker 1: and you don't have an opinion about their facial hair 475 00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:51,600 Speaker 1: or whatever, and they say, hey, do you prefer knowing 476 00:31:51,840 --> 00:31:56,920 Speaker 1: an objective truth or feeling comfortable in whatever your beliefs 477 00:31:57,000 --> 00:31:59,880 Speaker 1: might be, a lot of them will probably respond with 478 00:32:00,320 --> 00:32:04,120 Speaker 1: a hey, trick question. You're being a jerk. My beliefs 479 00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:07,640 Speaker 1: are true. That's why I believe them. I'm smart, dude, 480 00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:10,600 Speaker 1: you're being offensive. I mean, I think the closest thing 481 00:32:10,600 --> 00:32:13,280 Speaker 1: that comes to mind with that for me is religion. 482 00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:17,080 Speaker 1: You know, the idea of is religion provable? You know, 483 00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:20,400 Speaker 1: can you prove that the beliefs held by various religions 484 00:32:20,960 --> 00:32:25,720 Speaker 1: are the right ones or are accurate historically, spiritually, scientifically, 485 00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:30,360 Speaker 1: or otherwise, But to fully hold those beliefs and let 486 00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:32,520 Speaker 1: it guide your kind of life. And you're the way 487 00:32:32,560 --> 00:32:34,520 Speaker 1: you went write with the world is in and of 488 00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:37,920 Speaker 1: itself a comfort. You know, for many people, it allows 489 00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:40,320 Speaker 1: them some kind of peace of mind, whether it be 490 00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:42,760 Speaker 1: belief in and afterlife. If they do good things, then 491 00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:45,720 Speaker 1: this will happen for them or whatever. So that's sort 492 00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:47,320 Speaker 1: of you know, but but again you're you're right, then 493 00:32:47,360 --> 00:32:50,040 Speaker 1: it is inherently offensive to that person if you if 494 00:32:50,080 --> 00:32:52,600 Speaker 1: you posit it like, are you cool with just believing 495 00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:55,920 Speaker 1: nonsense to make yourself feel better? You know, like that's 496 00:32:55,960 --> 00:32:59,720 Speaker 1: essentially the mean version of that trick question, right, well, 497 00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:02,160 Speaker 1: and a lot of times, you know, to be honest, 498 00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:05,600 Speaker 1: and this is a shout at Christopher Hitchens and and 499 00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:09,560 Speaker 1: some other folks, Uh, a lot of times when people 500 00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:14,400 Speaker 1: purport to assume that position, what they're really doing is 501 00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:18,200 Speaker 1: feeding their own feedback loop. They're making themselves feel better. 502 00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:21,320 Speaker 1: They don't give about the answer to the question, because 503 00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:26,000 Speaker 1: what they're doing is um an intellectual version of masturbation 504 00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:28,560 Speaker 1: in front of someone else who is an unwilling participant. 505 00:33:28,840 --> 00:33:31,640 Speaker 1: And I know that sounds brutal and crass, but it's 506 00:33:31,800 --> 00:33:35,880 Speaker 1: very true. And if you really want to tackle this conundrum, 507 00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:40,080 Speaker 1: this bag of badgers, you have to try exercising skepticism. 508 00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:43,880 Speaker 1: The same way you exercise any other part of your body. 509 00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:47,320 Speaker 1: And at this point, folks maybe asking, all right, fine, 510 00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:51,720 Speaker 1: I get it. It's weird and it's tough and it's unfair. 511 00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:55,160 Speaker 1: So how do I practice skepticism with an abroller? Right, 512 00:33:56,680 --> 00:34:01,680 Speaker 1: here's where it gets crazy. Yes, your brain, your brain 513 00:34:01,880 --> 00:34:06,360 Speaker 1: is in a very real way predisposition to do some 514 00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:09,680 Speaker 1: pretty gullible things. And unfortunately, there's not a way to 515 00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:15,080 Speaker 1: automatically flip a switch and practice skepticism. But there are 516 00:34:15,200 --> 00:34:20,160 Speaker 1: some clear steps and techniques you can employ that will 517 00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:23,040 Speaker 1: help you get a better handle on the concept. And 518 00:34:23,080 --> 00:34:25,279 Speaker 1: we're gonna we're gonna step through a few of these. Again, 519 00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:27,920 Speaker 1: your mileage may vary, and we are going to be 520 00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:29,800 Speaker 1: the first folks to tell you, or at least I 521 00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:34,560 Speaker 1: will say these. Uh, these are difficult to practice in 522 00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:37,520 Speaker 1: at least my own experience, and I think all that 523 00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:41,080 Speaker 1: goes for all of us. But they're worth trying. I mean, 524 00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:43,600 Speaker 1: it's the same way you have to practice, say, empathy, 525 00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:47,120 Speaker 1: It ultimately involves stepping out of your brain, if that's 526 00:34:47,160 --> 00:34:50,720 Speaker 1: even possible, or you know, putting yourself in another person's 527 00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:53,759 Speaker 1: shoes or the shoes of another perspective, or again, just 528 00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:56,759 Speaker 1: kind of you know, questioning and breaking yourself out of 529 00:34:56,800 --> 00:34:59,879 Speaker 1: those feedback loops. So doubt is a very important con 530 00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:03,239 Speaker 1: sept to exercise or to consider, especially these days with 531 00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:08,000 Speaker 1: all of this information just you know, whirlwinds swirling around us, 532 00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:10,399 Speaker 1: you know, and people reporting it as though it were 533 00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:12,920 Speaker 1: true all the time. You know, there really are no 534 00:35:13,200 --> 00:35:17,960 Speaker 1: check safeguards against uh, misinformation. Maybe there never were, but 535 00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:19,920 Speaker 1: at least we used to have a journalistic code of 536 00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:23,040 Speaker 1: ethics and all of that stuff. Um. That just seems 537 00:35:23,040 --> 00:35:25,400 Speaker 1: to have really gone out the window. Especially since internet 538 00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:27,759 Speaker 1: stories are always first to market. It seems like some 539 00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:31,200 Speaker 1: traditional press outlets are just trying to keep up and 540 00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:33,600 Speaker 1: so maybe we see we see sometimes things are reported 541 00:35:33,600 --> 00:35:35,600 Speaker 1: and big outlets that that proved to not be true too. 542 00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:38,520 Speaker 1: So it's even harder because with you know, the media 543 00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:41,839 Speaker 1: or anyway many of these media outlets being owned by 544 00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:47,279 Speaker 1: a very small number of families and corporations, um, it 545 00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:51,760 Speaker 1: can be really easy to fall prey to these lines 546 00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:55,719 Speaker 1: of thinking and reporting that maybe have an agenda, uh 547 00:35:55,840 --> 00:36:01,120 Speaker 1: not to mention commercials, the news cycle campaign ads, things 548 00:36:01,160 --> 00:36:03,480 Speaker 1: that try to influence what we think and act, and 549 00:36:03,600 --> 00:36:08,279 Speaker 1: some networks that essentially operate as propaganda, you know, not 550 00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:10,640 Speaker 1: naming names, but I mean it's it's true on both 551 00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:13,880 Speaker 1: sides of political divides and in other countries. Used you 552 00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:17,399 Speaker 1: have the ones that is pretty widely understood to be 553 00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:21,920 Speaker 1: not based in fact, more entertainment than anything to to 554 00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:24,839 Speaker 1: get people riled up. Yeah. I would just modify this 555 00:36:24,880 --> 00:36:27,600 Speaker 1: one slightly because we're talking about like, if we're making 556 00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:30,560 Speaker 1: a list here, number one. First thing, have some doubt 557 00:36:30,640 --> 00:36:33,839 Speaker 1: about stuff, I would just say it needs to be 558 00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:38,480 Speaker 1: doubt that's led with curiosity, right, not doubt that's led 559 00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:43,960 Speaker 1: with just rejection of whatever is stated. Yeah. Yeah, doubt 560 00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:48,759 Speaker 1: is not uh an inherently bad thing, nor is it 561 00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:53,440 Speaker 1: a measure of weakness. Again, this this leads us to 562 00:36:53,960 --> 00:36:56,600 Speaker 1: what a beautiful explanation. This leads us to the next 563 00:36:56,680 --> 00:37:00,839 Speaker 1: crucial step and put these of whatever order you want, folks. 564 00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:06,959 Speaker 1: Detecting deception right, that doubt doubt is just okay, let's 565 00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:11,120 Speaker 1: ask what right? Detecting this deception goes back to the 566 00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:15,160 Speaker 1: provenance of a claim. Is it made with honest intention? 567 00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:19,400 Speaker 1: Is this guy who is going to sell you a 568 00:37:19,440 --> 00:37:23,080 Speaker 1: bridge for an amazing discount? Is there a reason he 569 00:37:23,160 --> 00:37:27,040 Speaker 1: wants the cash? Now? Then you know what I mean. Uh, 570 00:37:27,760 --> 00:37:30,600 Speaker 1: it all goes back again to asking the right questions. 571 00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:35,279 Speaker 1: Is this claim based on assumptions? Probably there's supposed to 572 00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:38,480 Speaker 1: be some kind of common ground right for conversation to occur. 573 00:37:39,239 --> 00:37:43,399 Speaker 1: If it's based on assumptions. Is there support for these 574 00:37:44,080 --> 00:37:47,800 Speaker 1: facts research studies. This is where a matter of faith 575 00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:51,840 Speaker 1: arguments tend to fall apart. Look again, folks said it 576 00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:56,360 Speaker 1: hundreds of times. I imagine at this point on stuff 577 00:37:56,400 --> 00:37:58,799 Speaker 1: they don't want you to know. Our position is there 578 00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:03,080 Speaker 1: is nothing wrong you holding your own spiritual beliefs so 579 00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:07,759 Speaker 1: long as you are not harming yourself or others. And unfortunately, 580 00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:10,879 Speaker 1: all too often these beliefs can be twisted and disguised 581 00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:14,719 Speaker 1: as though they are facts rather than opinions, and you 582 00:38:14,760 --> 00:38:18,520 Speaker 1: can't that that is a deceptive move. You know, if 583 00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:24,400 Speaker 1: someone is if someone is quoting a textbook about physics 584 00:38:25,239 --> 00:38:29,239 Speaker 1: versus quoting um a spiritual work that means a lot 585 00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:33,680 Speaker 1: to them, there is an inherent difference in those two things. 586 00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:36,920 Speaker 1: And you are not as so many people want you 587 00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:39,879 Speaker 1: to feel obligated right in the world, and you are 588 00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:44,520 Speaker 1: not obligated to believe things that are not facts. And 589 00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:47,839 Speaker 1: even some of those traditional journalism outlets that that we 590 00:38:47,840 --> 00:38:50,520 Speaker 1: were talking about will now do things like site a 591 00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:55,600 Speaker 1: tweet or two to to describe an entire group of 592 00:38:55,640 --> 00:38:58,560 Speaker 1: people's thinking around an issue, as if that one or 593 00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:01,239 Speaker 1: two or three tweets is proof positive of a of 594 00:39:01,239 --> 00:39:04,680 Speaker 1: an entire group, you know. Um, and that's that's not 595 00:39:05,239 --> 00:39:10,480 Speaker 1: right either. Well, yeah, this one being able to detect 596 00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:15,080 Speaker 1: either deception or I don't know, I guess it would 597 00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:19,399 Speaker 1: be deception even if it was misinformation, But being able 598 00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:22,440 Speaker 1: to detect that when you're scrolling through whatever social media 599 00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:25,080 Speaker 1: you use. More and more and more, the three of 600 00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:30,120 Speaker 1: us have seen unattributed videos that are out of context 601 00:39:30,239 --> 00:39:33,759 Speaker 1: with voiceover that has absolutely nothing to do with what's 602 00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:37,160 Speaker 1: actually occurring in the video, but you know, ascribes some 603 00:39:37,239 --> 00:39:41,560 Speaker 1: kind of motivation or action that isn't actually taking place. Um, 604 00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:44,319 Speaker 1: I mean it is. It is terrifying the amount of 605 00:39:44,320 --> 00:39:48,320 Speaker 1: information it gets floated around and viewed thousands, hundreds of thousands, 606 00:39:48,320 --> 00:39:52,319 Speaker 1: sometimes millions of times, and there's the actual information is 607 00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:55,800 Speaker 1: not there. It's deception. Let's call it. Maybe we also 608 00:39:55,880 --> 00:40:00,319 Speaker 1: call it detect motivation, right, like a shout out to 609 00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:04,560 Speaker 1: the shout out that guy who I've never met, Uh, 610 00:40:04,719 --> 00:40:09,280 Speaker 1: we're interacting with directly who made those YouTube hit piece 611 00:40:09,400 --> 00:40:12,640 Speaker 1: videos saying that was lying about the shape of the 612 00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:15,160 Speaker 1: planet last time I'm gonna mentioned flat Earth. But bro, 613 00:40:15,239 --> 00:40:17,520 Speaker 1: if you're still tuning in, I hope you had a 614 00:40:17,560 --> 00:40:21,279 Speaker 1: good holiday. Uh but really, quickly, is it deception if 615 00:40:21,320 --> 00:40:24,640 Speaker 1: someone really believes what they're putting out there? And how 616 00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:28,479 Speaker 1: can we determine that if they never admit that they're wrong? Right, 617 00:40:28,520 --> 00:40:31,680 Speaker 1: and begun. People don't like admitting their wrong A lot 618 00:40:31,680 --> 00:40:37,040 Speaker 1: of people deceive themselves. Actually, honestly, you're probably deceiving yourself 619 00:40:37,080 --> 00:40:40,359 Speaker 1: about something right now, a very human being, and that's 620 00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:44,440 Speaker 1: just you know, that's part of the game. Uh right, Uh, 621 00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:47,359 Speaker 1: this this is a question we have to whirrel with 622 00:40:47,520 --> 00:40:51,759 Speaker 1: because we don't want to. You don't want to cast 623 00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:56,440 Speaker 1: dispersion on someone's genuine beliefs. You just need to know 624 00:40:56,600 --> 00:40:59,759 Speaker 1: that you were not obligated to believe those things. You 625 00:41:00,000 --> 00:41:03,200 Speaker 1: shouldn't be obligated to believe those things. That's a reason 626 00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:08,319 Speaker 1: theocracies are as dangerous for the world as monarchies, which 627 00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:13,200 Speaker 1: also request a huge suspension of disbelief. I think maybe 628 00:41:13,200 --> 00:41:16,920 Speaker 1: we pause for a word from our sponsors and gird 629 00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:21,839 Speaker 1: ourselves for one of the next ones, the trickiest one 630 00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:29,200 Speaker 1: one are the ones that's most often misused, Satan and 631 00:41:29,280 --> 00:41:33,520 Speaker 1: it's also a great film featuring Kyoto Reads and al Paccino. 632 00:41:34,560 --> 00:41:36,680 Speaker 1: Let's see if let's see if you could guess it 633 00:41:36,719 --> 00:41:45,920 Speaker 1: by the time we come back from our break. All right, 634 00:41:46,040 --> 00:41:49,080 Speaker 1: I feel like we made that trivia question pretty easy, 635 00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:54,640 Speaker 1: right that absentee landlord? Who are you carrying all those 636 00:41:54,680 --> 00:42:00,040 Speaker 1: bricks for it? Kevin God I did that monologue. I 637 00:42:00,239 --> 00:42:04,960 Speaker 1: I won an award doing that monologue in school. Congratulations 638 00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:08,440 Speaker 1: that man, that's great. Not a prestigious award, is a 639 00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:14,600 Speaker 1: major award. Let's see. Um. I don't think anybody in 640 00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:16,840 Speaker 1: the military gave it to me, but it was. It 641 00:42:16,960 --> 00:42:21,799 Speaker 1: was an award. But this uh so, Yeah, folks were 642 00:42:21,840 --> 00:42:27,719 Speaker 1: talking about The Devil's Advocate actually just too just to 643 00:42:27,840 --> 00:42:33,839 Speaker 1: prepare for this episode, I've rewatched The Devil's Advocate, and yeah, 644 00:42:33,840 --> 00:42:36,560 Speaker 1: it's worth a rewatch. It's worth a rewatch. It's got 645 00:42:36,560 --> 00:42:38,880 Speaker 1: some bangers in it, it's good. There's there's you know, 646 00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:42,719 Speaker 1: some issues, some some dated bits, but overall, I think 647 00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:46,240 Speaker 1: it's a pretty interesting piece that does have a message 648 00:42:46,239 --> 00:42:52,399 Speaker 1: at its heart, and it's oh man, uh, one day, 649 00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:56,359 Speaker 1: maybe we'll just do an episode about film conspiracies. If 650 00:42:56,400 --> 00:42:59,040 Speaker 1: we haven't yet, we must, we must. It's not a 651 00:42:59,040 --> 00:43:03,920 Speaker 1: bad idea. So the concept devil's advocate away from the film. 652 00:43:04,040 --> 00:43:07,680 Speaker 1: You've heard this used all the time, sometimes at bars 653 00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:10,800 Speaker 1: where someone a few too many drinks in is deciding 654 00:43:10,840 --> 00:43:14,640 Speaker 1: to be a jerk about stuff. But after all our 655 00:43:14,680 --> 00:43:21,280 Speaker 1: conversation today about spirituality, religious beliefs and and all that stuff, 656 00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:26,880 Speaker 1: it's funny to realize that the real concept of devil's 657 00:43:26,920 --> 00:43:31,120 Speaker 1: advocacy comes from a religious institution. You see, back in 658 00:43:31,160 --> 00:43:35,640 Speaker 1: the day, the Catholic Church had a bunch of people 659 00:43:35,880 --> 00:43:40,920 Speaker 1: who were being put up as possible saints, right proposed 660 00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:45,880 Speaker 1: as saints, going through beatification, canonization, etcetera. And so they 661 00:43:45,920 --> 00:43:49,920 Speaker 1: would have these long debates and these processes to determine 662 00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:53,040 Speaker 1: who was or was not in fact a saint. And 663 00:43:53,080 --> 00:43:56,799 Speaker 1: the church said, all right, we gotta be reasonable, So 664 00:43:56,840 --> 00:44:00,239 Speaker 1: we have to have at least one person or group 665 00:44:00,560 --> 00:44:03,719 Speaker 1: who comes in and says, here are the reasons this 666 00:44:03,760 --> 00:44:06,799 Speaker 1: person may not be as saintly as we think. Hey, 667 00:44:06,840 --> 00:44:09,759 Speaker 1: maybe we're all getting carried away in our feedback loop 668 00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:14,239 Speaker 1: of fandom. So they created the role of advocus diaboli 669 00:44:15,040 --> 00:44:18,799 Speaker 1: Devil's advocate, and this was a check in balance just 670 00:44:18,840 --> 00:44:20,600 Speaker 1: to make sure everything was on the up and up. 671 00:44:21,200 --> 00:44:24,799 Speaker 1: But today primarily it means let me take a position 672 00:44:25,120 --> 00:44:28,279 Speaker 1: that I don't necessarily agree with and let me try 673 00:44:28,320 --> 00:44:32,160 Speaker 1: to reverse engineer the logic from there. Right, That's what 674 00:44:32,280 --> 00:44:36,160 Speaker 1: it is. When people are using it with honest motives, 675 00:44:37,040 --> 00:44:40,640 Speaker 1: it's testing, yeah, case test. It's become such a part 676 00:44:40,680 --> 00:44:43,480 Speaker 1: of the you know, discourse, people literally just say Devil's 677 00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:46,480 Speaker 1: advocate boom and then say the thing you know, you know, 678 00:44:46,760 --> 00:44:49,080 Speaker 1: you people understand what that means. It is to kind 679 00:44:49,080 --> 00:44:52,600 Speaker 1: of create a thought experiment wherein we try to, like 680 00:44:52,640 --> 00:44:56,400 Speaker 1: you said, been worked backwards from like a undesirable or 681 00:44:56,600 --> 00:45:01,359 Speaker 1: not personally held, you know, conclusion to get to maybe 682 00:45:01,400 --> 00:45:03,560 Speaker 1: where the actual truth. But and usually the goal is 683 00:45:03,600 --> 00:45:06,759 Speaker 1: to get somewhere moderate, right, to get somewhere kind of 684 00:45:06,840 --> 00:45:10,920 Speaker 1: between the extremes between those poles. So again this is 685 00:45:10,960 --> 00:45:16,000 Speaker 1: a tricky one, right. This is a almost like a 686 00:45:17,040 --> 00:45:19,880 Speaker 1: not a black belt move of critical thinking, but it 687 00:45:20,120 --> 00:45:25,480 Speaker 1: is an intermediate level move of critical thought. You can't 688 00:45:25,520 --> 00:45:28,959 Speaker 1: immediately dismiss something out of hand. You never should, even 689 00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:32,640 Speaker 1: if it sounds absolutely ludicrous, or even if you find 690 00:45:32,640 --> 00:45:36,480 Speaker 1: it contradicts your previously held beliefs. This is where you 691 00:45:36,520 --> 00:45:39,359 Speaker 1: go back to the Socratic method. We ask questions from 692 00:45:39,360 --> 00:45:42,280 Speaker 1: both sides of an argument in an attempt to triangulate 693 00:45:42,320 --> 00:45:46,000 Speaker 1: towards the truth. And it's a key step that is 694 00:45:46,160 --> 00:45:49,719 Speaker 1: almost always ignored in hot button issues and debates and 695 00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:54,520 Speaker 1: mass media. It's for good reason, because one it's a 696 00:45:54,560 --> 00:45:58,040 Speaker 1: bummer to hear, right, and also in a place in 697 00:45:58,080 --> 00:46:03,960 Speaker 1: a media ecosystem that prizes out of context quotes, you 698 00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:07,319 Speaker 1: could just cut someone saying, well, if I were to 699 00:46:07,360 --> 00:46:10,080 Speaker 1: play devil's advocate, and then it sounds like they're a 700 00:46:10,120 --> 00:46:13,120 Speaker 1: green with all kinds of stuff that they don't agree with. 701 00:46:13,680 --> 00:46:18,120 Speaker 1: But the most important thing is that devil's advocacy as 702 00:46:18,120 --> 00:46:22,719 Speaker 1: a concept is often misused and people use it with 703 00:46:23,040 --> 00:46:30,440 Speaker 1: um incredibly scurlous, scoundrel like intentions. You know, they're not, 704 00:46:30,520 --> 00:46:34,080 Speaker 1: in fact trying to understand a perspective. They're attempting to 705 00:46:34,280 --> 00:46:39,080 Speaker 1: attack what they don't like by pretending to see the 706 00:46:39,120 --> 00:46:45,080 Speaker 1: other side someone, for instance, maybe as stridently um anti 707 00:46:45,120 --> 00:46:49,160 Speaker 1: abortion or pro life, and they're saying, okay, well to 708 00:46:49,280 --> 00:46:52,600 Speaker 1: play devil's advocate here, Uh, you know, let's say I 709 00:46:52,640 --> 00:46:55,560 Speaker 1: love killing babies. You know, let's say I love the 710 00:46:55,640 --> 00:46:58,640 Speaker 1: idea of a child die. Well, where would I get 711 00:46:58,680 --> 00:47:08,560 Speaker 1: that idea from? You know what? They stument? No, I've 712 00:47:08,600 --> 00:47:11,239 Speaker 1: got people that I know that do that, and they're 713 00:47:11,320 --> 00:47:13,839 Speaker 1: when they're trying to win in a debate with you 714 00:47:13,920 --> 00:47:17,080 Speaker 1: over something political, they'll do that exact thing where they'll 715 00:47:17,120 --> 00:47:19,560 Speaker 1: like take on your perspective but make you look like 716 00:47:19,600 --> 00:47:24,400 Speaker 1: an idiot, right like that or just the yes, whatever 717 00:47:24,480 --> 00:47:27,200 Speaker 1: it might be. They're they're bastardizing it and making it 718 00:47:27,400 --> 00:47:31,360 Speaker 1: extra gross to suit their purposes and in rendering you 719 00:47:31,760 --> 00:47:35,879 Speaker 1: how can you argue with that killing babies isn't good 720 00:47:35,920 --> 00:47:38,560 Speaker 1: the idea of killing baby, but that's also not what 721 00:47:38,600 --> 00:47:40,800 Speaker 1: abortion is, you know. Any No, we don't have to 722 00:47:40,800 --> 00:47:44,000 Speaker 1: get into that specific debate, but that's yeah, I'm sorry 723 00:47:44,000 --> 00:47:46,560 Speaker 1: that that really gets my dander up. And people do that. 724 00:47:47,080 --> 00:47:50,160 Speaker 1: M Well, in order to figure out what's going on there, 725 00:47:50,200 --> 00:47:53,080 Speaker 1: you gotta have a little thing called a bias detector. 726 00:47:53,320 --> 00:47:56,320 Speaker 1: I hope you've got one. You can build a boy, 727 00:47:57,600 --> 00:48:00,920 Speaker 1: you can build one at home. It's kind of funny. 728 00:48:00,920 --> 00:48:04,080 Speaker 1: Bias too is a term for like amplifiers get like 729 00:48:04,120 --> 00:48:08,160 Speaker 1: tube amplifiers. You have to set the bias for like tubes, 730 00:48:08,200 --> 00:48:10,880 Speaker 1: and it makes the sound like a certain kind of 731 00:48:10,880 --> 00:48:14,120 Speaker 1: timber or not. And sometimes adjusting in one direction or 732 00:48:14,120 --> 00:48:16,640 Speaker 1: the other can change the whole vibe of the amp. 733 00:48:16,840 --> 00:48:19,200 Speaker 1: And I'm sure they're not related, but they're spelled exactly 734 00:48:19,239 --> 00:48:21,480 Speaker 1: the same way. And I can't help but think about that. 735 00:48:21,719 --> 00:48:25,759 Speaker 1: B I A s you're onto something. Bias is essentially 736 00:48:26,360 --> 00:48:30,960 Speaker 1: for our purposes. Here is baseline. Yes, that's exactly right. 737 00:48:31,120 --> 00:48:37,200 Speaker 1: It's um calibrating, calibrating baseline that is pivotated one way 738 00:48:37,280 --> 00:48:40,200 Speaker 1: or another, right, or something that's given more weight than another. 739 00:48:40,680 --> 00:48:44,520 Speaker 1: Uh this okay, bias detecting a little, Matt, We're we're 740 00:48:44,560 --> 00:48:48,919 Speaker 1: indeed on. You've brought up one of the even trickier ones. 741 00:48:49,320 --> 00:48:53,480 Speaker 1: This one is not as misused as Devil's advocation. But 742 00:48:53,800 --> 00:48:57,520 Speaker 1: it is nowhere near as easy as it sounds. When 743 00:48:57,520 --> 00:49:01,600 Speaker 1: you you're biased detecting in rhetoric, then you think or 744 00:49:01,680 --> 00:49:05,680 Speaker 1: in conversation, right, then you would think, okay, I can hear, 745 00:49:05,920 --> 00:49:08,319 Speaker 1: I can detect a bias. You know what I mean? 746 00:49:08,600 --> 00:49:13,680 Speaker 1: If I read something from Sinua, the Chinese state supported 747 00:49:13,719 --> 00:49:17,560 Speaker 1: media about wagers, I'm pretty sure what they're gonna say, 748 00:49:17,880 --> 00:49:22,240 Speaker 1: you know what I mean? Or if I know that, um, 749 00:49:22,280 --> 00:49:27,520 Speaker 1: a Democratic president is going to talk about a Republican senator, 750 00:49:27,960 --> 00:49:31,640 Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure it's not going to be glowing praise. Yeah. 751 00:49:31,680 --> 00:49:36,280 Speaker 1: But it gets so much more complicated, right so quickly, 752 00:49:36,560 --> 00:49:40,000 Speaker 1: especially in politics, because you're not just looking at okay, 753 00:49:40,000 --> 00:49:42,319 Speaker 1: which side is saying that? Which team is this person on? 754 00:49:42,520 --> 00:49:45,200 Speaker 1: And what are they saying? Okay, I know that bias? Well, 755 00:49:45,200 --> 00:49:48,840 Speaker 1: what about the donors that that person relies on? What 756 00:49:48,920 --> 00:49:51,600 Speaker 1: about the state that person comes from? You know, there's 757 00:49:51,600 --> 00:49:57,120 Speaker 1: so many things. It becomes deception in the dark. Love it, 758 00:49:57,560 --> 00:50:00,560 Speaker 1: love it, Yes, I mean, that's that's a thing, right 759 00:50:00,600 --> 00:50:04,520 Speaker 1: because your brain also loves shortcuts. That's how it survived. 760 00:50:04,840 --> 00:50:07,839 Speaker 1: It doesn't need to confirm that there's a leopard in 761 00:50:07,840 --> 00:50:11,960 Speaker 1: that tree. It just needs to run in case there is, right. 762 00:50:12,040 --> 00:50:15,560 Speaker 1: It saves time. So that's why when you hear a 763 00:50:15,640 --> 00:50:19,479 Speaker 1: politician throughout the world make a claim, and you hear 764 00:50:19,560 --> 00:50:22,160 Speaker 1: just a few, like maybe even as few as one 765 00:50:22,200 --> 00:50:26,880 Speaker 1: to three contact contextual clues about that individual, you already 766 00:50:26,880 --> 00:50:29,239 Speaker 1: have an idea about where they might stand on what 767 00:50:29,280 --> 00:50:35,240 Speaker 1: they're saying. So let's picture let's picture you're tuning into 768 00:50:35,239 --> 00:50:39,120 Speaker 1: the radio, right, you're in you're driving somewhere, or you're 769 00:50:39,120 --> 00:50:41,880 Speaker 1: on public transit whatever. For some reason, you're listening to radio. 770 00:50:42,120 --> 00:50:45,680 Speaker 1: You're hearing these two politicians talk. And they're talking about 771 00:50:45,719 --> 00:50:48,760 Speaker 1: something the politicians always talk about. They say, the budget 772 00:50:48,920 --> 00:50:51,960 Speaker 1: is food bar. We need to fix the budget, and 773 00:50:52,040 --> 00:50:55,320 Speaker 1: they both agree on that. They're not gonna publicly agree 774 00:50:55,680 --> 00:50:59,319 Speaker 1: because they're very divided, right, but they're gonna take as 775 00:50:59,320 --> 00:51:03,759 Speaker 1: a given the budget whatever the budget is, has problems, 776 00:51:03,920 --> 00:51:08,399 Speaker 1: needs work. Also, this is urgent because their subtext there 777 00:51:08,480 --> 00:51:12,360 Speaker 1: is there's a reason you vote for me, right, and 778 00:51:12,800 --> 00:51:15,479 Speaker 1: you're not going to hear a conversation where they say, well, 779 00:51:15,520 --> 00:51:18,400 Speaker 1: we disagree on some things, but the budgets pretty fine. 780 00:51:18,480 --> 00:51:22,560 Speaker 1: It's actually a slow Thursday here in America. I hope 781 00:51:22,600 --> 00:51:24,800 Speaker 1: everybody takes some time to hang out with their kids. 782 00:51:25,040 --> 00:51:28,160 Speaker 1: They'll never say that, they'll they'll say they there's a 783 00:51:28,239 --> 00:51:31,440 Speaker 1: problem and no one can agree on how to fix it. 784 00:51:31,640 --> 00:51:34,200 Speaker 1: Har Rump for Rump for rumph. Well, another thing that's 785 00:51:34,200 --> 00:51:38,759 Speaker 1: interesting that we're seeing really recently with this whole you know, 786 00:51:39,400 --> 00:51:42,239 Speaker 1: division over electing the Speaker of the House, right and 787 00:51:42,280 --> 00:51:43,880 Speaker 1: like them not being able to get the number of 788 00:51:43,920 --> 00:51:45,719 Speaker 1: votes and kind of the left and the right having 789 00:51:45,760 --> 00:51:48,720 Speaker 1: to come together to figure out a solution. There you start. 790 00:51:48,840 --> 00:51:52,000 Speaker 1: You're starting to see folks like Marjorie Taylor Green, who 791 00:51:52,080 --> 00:51:56,640 Speaker 1: infamously was spouted all kinds of conspiracy theories and and 792 00:51:56,760 --> 00:52:00,239 Speaker 1: kind of nut job you know, lines about we were 793 00:52:00,239 --> 00:52:02,520 Speaker 1: the craziest things you can possibly imagine, Q you know 794 00:52:02,719 --> 00:52:06,200 Speaker 1: level type stuff and beyond um has now walked back 795 00:52:06,239 --> 00:52:10,160 Speaker 1: a lot of that stuff and is literally saying, oops, 796 00:52:10,320 --> 00:52:13,320 Speaker 1: my bad, the Internet got me. I don't actually believe 797 00:52:13,360 --> 00:52:15,360 Speaker 1: in any of that stuff, and I didn't really campaign 798 00:52:15,400 --> 00:52:18,000 Speaker 1: on it, which isn't true. She did campaign on it, 799 00:52:18,040 --> 00:52:20,520 Speaker 1: and she certainly spoke as though she believed it. But 800 00:52:20,680 --> 00:52:24,240 Speaker 1: now because of public perception of that kind of stuff 801 00:52:24,320 --> 00:52:30,240 Speaker 1: shifting even within the zealot types that maybe follow that stuff, 802 00:52:30,719 --> 00:52:34,600 Speaker 1: she's made a calculation so that in and of itself 803 00:52:34,719 --> 00:52:39,239 Speaker 1: is also disingenuous or is its own kind of bias. Right, 804 00:52:40,440 --> 00:52:42,920 Speaker 1: And this is where we can, towards the end of 805 00:52:42,920 --> 00:52:47,160 Speaker 1: the show, we can conduct a very brief experiment and 806 00:52:47,239 --> 00:52:52,680 Speaker 1: I think it'll be lustrative. So back to our hypothetical politicians. 807 00:52:53,280 --> 00:52:56,919 Speaker 1: One says, Okay, yeah, the budgets messed up and we're 808 00:52:56,960 --> 00:53:00,400 Speaker 1: in trouble. The only real solution is in tact cuts 809 00:53:00,440 --> 00:53:03,319 Speaker 1: to empower wealth creators. And at the same time, we 810 00:53:03,360 --> 00:53:06,640 Speaker 1: need to trim the fat. Let's cut government assistance across 811 00:53:06,640 --> 00:53:09,799 Speaker 1: a range of programs. This is unpopular, they might say, 812 00:53:09,840 --> 00:53:12,440 Speaker 1: but if we're being honest, and that's why you elected me, 813 00:53:12,800 --> 00:53:15,319 Speaker 1: this is the only way to write the ship. The 814 00:53:15,360 --> 00:53:19,799 Speaker 1: other person might respond by saying, yeah, the budget's best up, Yeah, 815 00:53:19,800 --> 00:53:22,640 Speaker 1: we have to fix it right now. And the answer 816 00:53:22,719 --> 00:53:26,960 Speaker 1: is doing the complete opposite of what the distinguished gentleman 817 00:53:27,040 --> 00:53:29,840 Speaker 1: from so and so said. We need to raise taxes 818 00:53:29,880 --> 00:53:33,520 Speaker 1: on the wealthy, or here's one, have them actually pay taxes, 819 00:53:33,880 --> 00:53:37,279 Speaker 1: and then we need to increase access to government assistance. Look, 820 00:53:37,360 --> 00:53:40,640 Speaker 1: they say, I know this is unpopular, but you elected 821 00:53:40,680 --> 00:53:42,800 Speaker 1: me to tell you the hard truths. It's going to 822 00:53:42,920 --> 00:53:45,640 Speaker 1: cost the nation in the short term, but better access 823 00:53:45,640 --> 00:53:50,560 Speaker 1: to education means better employees, better businesses, and better access 824 00:53:50,680 --> 00:53:55,600 Speaker 1: to government assistance means lower cost for the nation in 825 00:53:55,640 --> 00:53:58,319 Speaker 1: the long term. If you think back on that for 826 00:53:58,360 --> 00:54:02,040 Speaker 1: a second, my fell low Americans, then I bet you 827 00:54:02,080 --> 00:54:05,960 Speaker 1: can already guess which politician belongs to which big party 828 00:54:06,080 --> 00:54:10,120 Speaker 1: and due to your own pre existing experiences and belief 829 00:54:10,160 --> 00:54:13,240 Speaker 1: sets and feedback loops, you may be tempted to agree 830 00:54:13,280 --> 00:54:17,160 Speaker 1: with one over the other. Actually that's almost certain that 831 00:54:17,200 --> 00:54:21,160 Speaker 1: you do. But false dichotomy aside, how much do we 832 00:54:21,239 --> 00:54:24,000 Speaker 1: know about the nuts and bolts of these plans? Pass 833 00:54:24,080 --> 00:54:27,759 Speaker 1: those vague descriptions right at this point we have to ask, 834 00:54:28,120 --> 00:54:30,360 Speaker 1: like you were saying, no, not just the biases and 835 00:54:30,440 --> 00:54:34,160 Speaker 1: motivations of these politicians, but also what you were asking, Matt, 836 00:54:34,400 --> 00:54:38,080 Speaker 1: who funds their campaigns? What else do those campaign funders own? 837 00:54:38,560 --> 00:54:41,000 Speaker 1: And then we have to ask our own biases, and 838 00:54:41,040 --> 00:54:43,640 Speaker 1: they might not be apparent to us. That's the kicker 839 00:54:44,480 --> 00:54:47,000 Speaker 1: to be a skeptic. You have to use techniques of 840 00:54:47,040 --> 00:54:51,399 Speaker 1: critical thought on yourself just as much as you do 841 00:54:51,440 --> 00:54:54,359 Speaker 1: on others. I know, it's so much easier to tell 842 00:54:54,440 --> 00:54:57,560 Speaker 1: other people to work out, you know what I mean. Well, 843 00:54:57,560 --> 00:55:00,080 Speaker 1: it's also like, like, what what's hidden in the margins 844 00:55:00,120 --> 00:55:02,880 Speaker 1: of those bills that are being supported? You know what 845 00:55:02,960 --> 00:55:06,120 Speaker 1: I mean? You might outwardly as a politician support a bill, 846 00:55:06,400 --> 00:55:08,640 Speaker 1: but it's really just for the pork that's kind of 847 00:55:08,719 --> 00:55:12,680 Speaker 1: hidden in there that really affects your constituencies or or you, 848 00:55:12,800 --> 00:55:16,279 Speaker 1: or rather your high level donors. Uh. And the bill 849 00:55:16,440 --> 00:55:19,520 Speaker 1: might be you know, broadly accepted as a positive thing, 850 00:55:19,800 --> 00:55:22,520 Speaker 1: but you're really only supporting it to get through the 851 00:55:22,560 --> 00:55:25,239 Speaker 1: little things that you kind of sneak in there, you know. 852 00:55:25,480 --> 00:55:29,200 Speaker 1: So it's all very very disingenuous and and and based 853 00:55:29,200 --> 00:55:32,879 Speaker 1: around deception because of how complicated the system is. It's 854 00:55:32,920 --> 00:55:36,200 Speaker 1: like reading the terms of service, you know. I I 855 00:55:36,360 --> 00:55:40,440 Speaker 1: would okay, I'm gonna I'm gonna agree with you mostly 856 00:55:40,640 --> 00:55:44,560 Speaker 1: I would say that the I think it is misleading 857 00:55:44,600 --> 00:55:47,920 Speaker 1: for people to say the system is complicated. I think 858 00:55:48,000 --> 00:55:51,239 Speaker 1: those in power one to portray the system is complicated 859 00:55:51,280 --> 00:55:55,520 Speaker 1: to further their goals. And maybe that's cynical. I saw 860 00:55:55,560 --> 00:55:57,840 Speaker 1: have a lot to learn in this regard for sure. 861 00:55:58,160 --> 00:56:05,359 Speaker 1: Devil's Advocate, it's all ones and zeros, right, But I mean, 862 00:56:05,400 --> 00:56:08,880 Speaker 1: I I think that though, like, how complicated are these 863 00:56:08,920 --> 00:56:14,160 Speaker 1: things really? Anyway, that's that's maybe a different story. Skepticism, 864 00:56:14,239 --> 00:56:17,120 Speaker 1: as you can tell, is not about this missing stuff automatically, 865 00:56:17,200 --> 00:56:21,279 Speaker 1: even if it sounds ludicrous. It's about asking questions, especially 866 00:56:21,320 --> 00:56:24,879 Speaker 1: when people would rather you not ask those questions. And 867 00:56:24,960 --> 00:56:27,600 Speaker 1: as the world continues to spend its merry way in 868 00:56:27,640 --> 00:56:32,440 Speaker 1: the chaos of conflicting narratives. Everybody's shouting, no one's listening. 869 00:56:33,400 --> 00:56:36,759 Speaker 1: People have less and less time to really investigate or 870 00:56:36,800 --> 00:56:41,160 Speaker 1: interrogate this stuff. Skepticism is becoming increasingly important at the 871 00:56:41,200 --> 00:56:45,640 Speaker 1: same time it's becoming increasingly endangered. You know, we love 872 00:56:46,080 --> 00:56:49,360 Speaker 1: hearing that someone else is wrong. We love telling someone 873 00:56:49,400 --> 00:56:52,040 Speaker 1: else they're wrong. We do not like when it happens 874 00:56:52,080 --> 00:56:56,320 Speaker 1: to us, even when it should. And so with that mind, 875 00:56:56,880 --> 00:56:59,680 Speaker 1: I would ask whether we should do a follow up 876 00:56:59,719 --> 00:57:03,359 Speaker 1: episod showed on something we haven't really talked about, which 877 00:57:03,440 --> 00:57:10,120 Speaker 1: is how to approach or apply skepticism to the beliefs 878 00:57:10,160 --> 00:57:12,920 Speaker 1: of our friends, loved ones, people who are important in 879 00:57:12,920 --> 00:57:15,880 Speaker 1: our lives. That stuff can ruin relationships. I don't know, 880 00:57:15,920 --> 00:57:19,480 Speaker 1: should we do an episode on it. I'd rather not. 881 00:57:24,560 --> 00:57:27,440 Speaker 1: I mean, you know, we've certainly seen this kind of 882 00:57:27,440 --> 00:57:31,480 Speaker 1: stuff ruined relationships and break apart families, you know, during 883 00:57:31,560 --> 00:57:35,040 Speaker 1: some of the escalative uh you know, rabbit holing that 884 00:57:35,120 --> 00:57:38,640 Speaker 1: took place during COVID, you know, I mean, people not 885 00:57:38,760 --> 00:57:41,960 Speaker 1: able to have any common ground with their brothers, mothers. 886 00:57:42,040 --> 00:57:44,920 Speaker 1: You know, this stuff is real, and that's why this 887 00:57:44,960 --> 00:57:47,400 Speaker 1: stuff is so important. And when I say this stuff 888 00:57:47,440 --> 00:57:50,680 Speaker 1: in that context, I mean being skeptical and asking those 889 00:57:50,760 --> 00:57:53,680 Speaker 1: questions and figuring out a way to talk to perhaps 890 00:57:54,240 --> 00:57:56,240 Speaker 1: a loved one that has gone a little too far 891 00:57:56,320 --> 00:57:58,720 Speaker 1: without alienating them or making them feel like you're talking 892 00:57:58,760 --> 00:58:01,439 Speaker 1: down to them or that you think they're stupid. Even 893 00:58:01,480 --> 00:58:04,080 Speaker 1: if you do, I mean, that's that's just not the 894 00:58:04,120 --> 00:58:05,960 Speaker 1: way to handle it. You're just gonna push them deeper 895 00:58:06,000 --> 00:58:09,200 Speaker 1: into that rabbit hole by being disrespectful to them and 896 00:58:09,240 --> 00:58:12,200 Speaker 1: then dismissing their beliefs as them outright ben you point 897 00:58:12,200 --> 00:58:17,720 Speaker 1: out it's about asking the right questions in a respectful way. Well, 898 00:58:17,880 --> 00:58:21,560 Speaker 1: it looks like we are a house divided on whether 899 00:58:21,760 --> 00:58:24,600 Speaker 1: or not to whether or not to do an episode 900 00:58:25,040 --> 00:58:29,880 Speaker 1: on approaching Approaching skepticism with people close to you in 901 00:58:29,880 --> 00:58:32,280 Speaker 1: your personal life. So let us know if we should 902 00:58:32,280 --> 00:58:34,360 Speaker 1: go on that sojourn, if you'd like to join us, 903 00:58:34,360 --> 00:58:36,680 Speaker 1: and if you have advice for your fellow listeners to 904 00:58:36,840 --> 00:58:41,520 Speaker 1: end on a positive note. Study from Pew Research showed 905 00:58:41,560 --> 00:58:46,240 Speaker 1: that the public overwhelmingly agrees we all need to exercise 906 00:58:46,320 --> 00:58:50,840 Speaker 1: more skepticism when we hear mass media. I was surprised 907 00:58:50,880 --> 00:58:53,840 Speaker 1: to find seventy two of adults in the United States 908 00:58:53,880 --> 00:58:58,160 Speaker 1: say news organizations quote do an insufficient job of telling 909 00:58:58,200 --> 00:59:02,080 Speaker 1: their audiences where their money comes from. So how do 910 00:59:02,160 --> 00:59:04,720 Speaker 1: we wrangle with that? Oh and also grumpy cat gift 911 00:59:05,280 --> 00:59:07,400 Speaker 1: That doesn't matter. We're an audio podcast, but I thought 912 00:59:07,400 --> 00:59:10,040 Speaker 1: that would make us laugh. Uh. And now it's time 913 00:59:10,080 --> 00:59:12,880 Speaker 1: we ask what you think, folks. We would we would 914 00:59:13,040 --> 00:59:16,000 Speaker 1: love to hear your thoughts about skepticism. We'd love to 915 00:59:16,000 --> 00:59:21,240 Speaker 1: hear about your experiences, uh with moments where you redefined 916 00:59:21,320 --> 00:59:26,120 Speaker 1: what you thought or moments where you uh found yourself. 917 00:59:26,280 --> 00:59:28,800 Speaker 1: What's the phrase we used earlier talk trying to talk 918 00:59:28,800 --> 00:59:32,480 Speaker 1: a loved when off the ledge. Yeah, you can find 919 00:59:32,560 --> 00:59:37,080 Speaker 1: us everywhere. We're online. As they say, we are conspiracy 920 00:59:37,120 --> 00:59:40,800 Speaker 1: stuff showing Instagram, on TikTok. We are also conspiracy stuff 921 00:59:40,840 --> 00:59:44,280 Speaker 1: show on YouTube. We are conspiracy stuff also on Twitter, 922 00:59:44,480 --> 00:59:48,280 Speaker 1: conspiracy stuff on Facebook. We are conspiracy stuff. But we've 923 00:59:48,320 --> 00:59:50,600 Speaker 1: got a little group called Here's where it gets Crazy. 924 00:59:50,880 --> 00:59:53,480 Speaker 1: Join up with all the rest of the conspiracy realists. 925 00:59:54,560 --> 00:59:56,960 Speaker 1: And hey, if the Internet is not your bag of 926 00:59:57,320 --> 01:00:00,640 Speaker 1: badgers or other small rodent, uh, i' it is a badger. 927 01:00:00,640 --> 01:00:02,400 Speaker 1: It's not really a road. Who knows? No one knows. 928 01:00:02,840 --> 01:00:04,720 Speaker 1: Let us know what you think. You can give us 929 01:00:04,720 --> 01:00:07,560 Speaker 1: a telephone call and talk to us about badgers or 930 01:00:07,600 --> 01:00:09,800 Speaker 1: any other story or topic of you find interesting. You've 931 01:00:09,800 --> 01:00:11,800 Speaker 1: got three minutes to leave us your message. Let us 932 01:00:11,840 --> 01:00:14,120 Speaker 1: know a cool nickname to call you, and you may 933 01:00:14,200 --> 01:00:18,200 Speaker 1: hear yourself appear on one of our weekly listener mail episode. 934 01:00:18,240 --> 01:00:21,360 Speaker 1: That number is one eight three three st d w 935 01:00:21,720 --> 01:00:23,920 Speaker 1: y t K. And if none of that does it 936 01:00:24,000 --> 01:00:26,280 Speaker 1: for you, why you can do the old fashioned thing 937 01:00:26,600 --> 01:00:29,680 Speaker 1: send us an email. We are conspiracy at i heeart 938 01:00:29,800 --> 01:00:50,840 Speaker 1: radio dot com. Stuff they don't want you to know 939 01:00:51,040 --> 01:00:54,000 Speaker 1: is a production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts 940 01:00:54,040 --> 01:00:57,240 Speaker 1: from my heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, 941 01:00:57,360 --> 01:00:59,200 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.