Speaker 1: Hey, y'all. Hey, what's up? And welcome to Let's Red
Speaker 1: Table that I'm Tracy t Row and I'm Carl Pressley.
Speaker 1: How are you feeling today, Tracy, I'm feeling every day,
Speaker 1: every day, every day, I'm amazing song for me. I
Speaker 1: don't carry you well, you already know. I'm feeling successful, man,
Speaker 1: having a great week. We are feeling successful in these streets.
Speaker 1: I'm excited to get into today's episode. I can't even
Speaker 1: talk because I just was so frizzled watching it. Okay,
Speaker 1: were you? I was because I don't know something about
Speaker 1: massive amounts of money. Just listening to everything that happened
Speaker 1: this week, scams and the dreams and the belief and
Speaker 1: the lies, it was just a lot for me. You
Speaker 1: should think about all the scams that you see people
Speaker 1: running now, especially with all the Internet stuff, which is
Speaker 1: a little bit different than what I'm putting. Air quotes
Speaker 1: Simon because you know his name, who is he really? Okay,
Speaker 1: his name is not Simon. We're not even going there,
Speaker 1: which is I'm just gonna call him. I think he's
Speaker 1: still on the run. He's not running. That man is
Speaker 1: not stunning Cara. He's still in the front forefront of life.
Speaker 1: He is sitting in the front row, sitting down, taking
Speaker 1: pictures on social media, having a good old episodes like
Speaker 1: oh my god, Jay just talking about me, right, I
Speaker 1: have no love for him and any other person is
Speaker 1: out there like intentionally conning and hurting people because that
Speaker 1: is impacting their vives. It's the manipulation swiper nos swipings.
Speaker 1: It had to be exhausted to keep up with that
Speaker 1: con because you're spinning plates. But unlike him, Anna, I
Speaker 1: really believe she believes her own make believe. Oh she did.
Speaker 1: Listen if Faith of a Mustard Seed was a person,
Speaker 1: because it was Anna. I tell you, she believed in herself,
Speaker 1: in her story and everything she said, and she made
Speaker 1: you believe it. I mean, the poor man at the
Speaker 1: bank was like, oh, well, we normally don't do this, right,
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess I should. I mean, struggling on
Speaker 1: a made up name. Even her parents were like, she
Speaker 1: did what you listen, Please go see it for yourself,
Speaker 1: and then please go look at the Red Table Talk
Speaker 1: episode because we're gonna get into it today. You gotta
Speaker 1: see the episode. All types of emotional abuse, manipulation, it
Speaker 1: just sucks. I mean it's just terrible. And I think
Speaker 1: that's why this episode is so important. You know, it's
Speaker 1: not just a twenty minute Red Table episode or an
Speaker 1: hour and a half a little documentary or entertaining movie.
Speaker 1: This is somebody's life and it goes on for months
Speaker 1: and days, and it's an emotional roller coaster. I feel
Speaker 1: like we're gonna say that phrase often. Today. We're just
Speaker 1: gonna go through all of the emotions, even when we
Speaker 1: get to our guests later on, because it's a lie
Speaker 1: the stories that people have. It's time to share some
Speaker 1: thoughts from our Red Table Talk community. We believe and
Speaker 1: know they all of the Red Table Talk groups out there,
Speaker 1: all our backbone, and we absolutely love hearing from you.
Speaker 1: We asked our community if you or someone you know
Speaker 1: has ever been skinned by loved one or someone else.
Speaker 1: If so, how did you break free? Okay, here are
Speaker 1: some of your answers. Let them know and let them go.
Speaker 1: Oh I love that. Come on here, miss Gordine, that's fantastic. Absolutely.
Speaker 1: Our second person, Nick Nick, said they definitely have been
Speaker 1: scanned before and when they found out what the person
Speaker 1: was doing, they were done dealing with them altogether. They
Speaker 1: said when they put it all together and realized what
Speaker 1: they were doing. That was it so fight or flight
Speaker 1: and sometimes it's not worth fighting for. Okay, that's good, nick. Nick.
Speaker 1: Once you found out what the ish was, you got
Speaker 1: it together and got on down. And our third person said,
Speaker 1: I gave him two hours to get your ish and
Speaker 1: get so Deborah mchim, we feel you there. That was
Speaker 1: to the left, to the left. That was a full
Speaker 1: fledged moment right there. Hilarious. Yeah, Tracy, have you been
Speaker 1: manipulated before? Let me tell you something. I've never been scamed.
Speaker 1: But you know, if there was a poster child for
Speaker 1: someone to say, tell me about the time when you
Speaker 1: got your identity stolen, it would be me. My name
Speaker 1: is so common. I could be a white man, I
Speaker 1: could be in the UK, I could be in Canada.
Speaker 1: That has been my experience. I'm telling you, car is
Speaker 1: crazy on a regular basis. And I'm gonna tell you
Speaker 1: the lesson that I learned from that though. What I
Speaker 1: was doing initially I had one bank and when the
Speaker 1: second or third identity theft happened, I was like, oh no,
Speaker 1: we're not doing that, because if they shut your debit
Speaker 1: card down and someone's gotten inside your account, and like
Speaker 1: the first time it happened, my account was overdrawn like
Speaker 1: five thousand dollars. So no, no, no, I said, that
Speaker 1: will never happen again. And so I now I have
Speaker 1: diversified my portfolio of banking so that if anything ever happens,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm covered. Yeah, it's just one. So that's
Speaker 1: why it's Tracy t Row because I was, you know,
Speaker 1: doing Tracy Row, and now I was like, no, I
Speaker 1: have to be Tracy t Ro. I need something to
Speaker 1: differentiate and stand out and be the unique person that
Speaker 1: I am. We're gonna take a quick break, but when
Speaker 1: we get back, we'll be joined by two guests from
Speaker 1: our Red Table Talk community. We're bringing to fellow r
Speaker 1: t T community members to the vistual Red Table. I
Speaker 1: am so happy to welcome Dr Charlotte Freeman, who is
Speaker 1: joining us today from Memphis, Tennessee. She is a clinical psychologist,
Speaker 1: our very own Dr Rominey, so she's here to help
Speaker 1: us better understand the psychology behind the scams and scam
Speaker 1: artists themselves. So so glad you're a part of our
Speaker 1: Red Table Talk fan community and that you can join
Speaker 1: us today. Dr Freeman, thank you for allowing me to
Speaker 1: be here. We also get to welcome Adrian Hughes Montgomery,
Speaker 1: a native Memphion. She is with us today because she
Speaker 1: has experienced scams up close and personal. Might I add
Speaker 1: when she was in college and when she joined what
Speaker 1: turned out to be not so legit pyramid scheme. We
Speaker 1: are excited to hear these stories and your reaction to
Speaker 1: this Red Table Talk episode. So thank you for joining us. Adrian.
Speaker 1: How are you today? I'm find her you all doing good,
Speaker 1: feeling successful? Adrian, I can't wait to talk about the
Speaker 1: not so successful or not so legit scam and all
Speaker 1: of the amazing like I can't wait to get into that. Yes,
Speaker 1: don't don't, don't listen, I can't wait. So this is
Speaker 1: a part of the show where we're gonna reveal which
Speaker 1: moments made us pause, rewind, listen again, and just stop
Speaker 1: in the moment. Okay, let's talk about some of these
Speaker 1: wait what moments. So I'm gonna take the first one
Speaker 1: car because I can't wait. It's a wait wait what.
Speaker 1: When Willow brought up the fact that emotional abuse is
Speaker 1: how these scams start, I feel like the real scam
Speaker 1: is the emotional abuse that comes before the real scams.
Speaker 1: Let's talk about this our very own Dr Freeman, I
Speaker 1: know you've got something to say. Willow kind of pinned
Speaker 1: a really important point because a lot of times we
Speaker 1: don't realize that every relationship started starts off the same.
Speaker 1: Someone is trying to woo us, they're trying to encourage us,
Speaker 1: they're trying to meet our needs. And what we don't
Speaker 1: really realize is that when it comes to a scam
Speaker 1: artist though, that this is actually something they do every day.
Speaker 1: So the same amount of emotion that maybe the woman
Speaker 1: or the man feels in the relationship who's actually looking
Speaker 1: for a real relationship, well that scam artists, well they
Speaker 1: offer this same delivery to everybody. It's universe. So the
Speaker 1: emotional abuse for that person really does happen because they
Speaker 1: are playing on their emotions, their needs, their desires, what
Speaker 1: they've been praying for, what they've been asking for. The
Speaker 1: scam artists is actually the person who is conning them
Speaker 1: into believing, and they're selling them a fantasy. And unfortunately
Speaker 1: that person doesn't realize it's a fantasy. They think that
Speaker 1: this is all special just for them. Wow, so so true.
Speaker 1: I mean that hit me to the court. It's the
Speaker 1: manipulation for me, because it is truly just manipulation. Absolutely,
Speaker 1: let's talk about this moment. The moment Aileen read the
Speaker 1: article and found out about everything, I felt so in shock,
Speaker 1: and I started reading it over and over again, and
Speaker 1: because there were so many similarities in that article, I
Speaker 1: immediately knew that it was true. The moment I read
Speaker 1: the article, that's the moment I woke up. Would you
Speaker 1: guys have believed this article or would you have just
Speaker 1: dismissed it as somebody's past? Well, I would say when
Speaker 1: she saw it, it became real to her because after
Speaker 1: seeing the article on social media, it made her stop
Speaker 1: and think about what was happening to her and how
Speaker 1: he was waiting for a long period of time of
Speaker 1: calling her, how things became so urgent. It just started
Speaker 1: making her second guests herself and the relationship that she had.
Speaker 1: After watching it, you can kind of see her say, oh,
Speaker 1: something's wrong, let me checked this out. There are just
Speaker 1: no benefits to any doubts. I probably would have wanted
Speaker 1: to act like it was his past and maybe I'm
Speaker 1: seeing things because you really want to believe in the
Speaker 1: person your loving. But it's so interesting between the tender swindler,
Speaker 1: and we're just gonna call him that because you know
Speaker 1: why not. He's made so many other names. I'm so
Speaker 1: over Simon. So when t s ran here, Cadam, it
Speaker 1: was a little bit different than what animals doing. And
Speaker 1: so when Rachel explained while that the Netflix series portrayed
Speaker 1: a tense confrontation between the Morocco staff at the hotel
Speaker 1: and Anna, Rachel said, what was actually more alarming was
Speaker 1: that in real life Anna was cool as a cucumber.
Speaker 1: She didn't seem to register the seriousness the risk. So
Speaker 1: can you imagine being in this situation? Are you freaking out?
Speaker 1: Would you put out your work card in this case?
Speaker 1: What would you do? Know? Well, that was quick, okay,
Speaker 1: it's I would have did what she did. I just
Speaker 1: would have said back because this was her meal. I
Speaker 1: guess what I'm saying. It's something about my coins and
Speaker 1: I hate being in debt, so I wouldn't put myself
Speaker 1: in debt for this young lady like that. Now, if anything,
Speaker 1: I would have taken care of myself and I would
Speaker 1: have got on the plane like the young lady when
Speaker 1: she saw that things were going bad. And I think
Speaker 1: she had got sick from correct she has got sick
Speaker 1: and other and then she flew back. See that would
Speaker 1: have been me, So you wouldn't have been freaking out
Speaker 1: because you wouldn't have even been there. That's what you're like.
Speaker 1: Oh no, I'm out. I'm not giving you my hard
Speaker 1: I'm not giving you my card. I'm giving you the deuces. Yes,
Speaker 1: pretty much. I wonder, and Dr Freeman, you can answer this.
Speaker 1: I think about brain good. The friend at the hotel
Speaker 1: was getting sick, but I wonder if it was a
Speaker 1: brain good thing. Like, she kept feeling like something was off,
Speaker 1: and I'm wondering if it was the food that was
Speaker 1: making her sick or the experience that was making her sick.
Speaker 1: If you get a feeling that pieces are not adding up,
Speaker 1: I think that's the one thing that we don't do
Speaker 1: sometimes is we want to continue to give people the
Speaker 1: benefit of the doubt. We do not want to disrupt
Speaker 1: that relationship. We like the benefits. She was over there
Speaker 1: on Anna's dime, supposedly, so she was not ready to
Speaker 1: give up that dim. Giving her a little side out
Speaker 1: on that because I'm not saying she was wrong, but
Speaker 1: I'm giving a little side at what couldn't she have said, though,
Speaker 1: I know that you were paying for the trip, and
Speaker 1: you brought up us because we see that there's financial difficulty.
Speaker 1: What about you just take care of yourself and we
Speaker 1: take care of ourselves. But here's the hiccup I have
Speaker 1: with that you picked this thing go on hot asset place,
Speaker 1: but Anna did because Anna's ball's in her fantasy where
Speaker 1: Anna picked the place right. Yeah, Anna chose it right.
Speaker 1: See me, I would have been at the Marriott. I
Speaker 1: don't like how you mooses I gotta go wh I
Speaker 1: think you have to also look at the fact that
Speaker 1: for a long time Anna was, for lack of bed words,
Speaker 1: she was always bowling on somebody else's dame. The money's
Speaker 1: had always been there in the past, so they really
Speaker 1: didn't have a reason to believe that the money wasn't
Speaker 1: going to be there. But again, as you started to
Speaker 1: see it, manifests that the money's were not there. That's
Speaker 1: when tapping into that gut feeling and saying, Okay, now
Speaker 1: I'm not seeing the same things I've seen in the
Speaker 1: past with you. Something is different. So Rachel was trying
Speaker 1: to have a conversation about her and the dollars, but
Speaker 1: and I was like, don't worry about it, that's true.
Speaker 1: What I want to know is, what did you think
Speaker 1: about the episode, the Red Table Talk episode about them? Well,
Speaker 1: I love how the young lady of the tenders. Wonder
Speaker 1: how she got smart At the end, I knew all
Speaker 1: the clothes he was wearing, and that was the only
Speaker 1: thing that was real on him, his clothes. And that's
Speaker 1: when I realized, like, Okay, if maybe I can get
Speaker 1: my hands on those items, I can sell them and
Speaker 1: I'm going to keep the money because I'm drowning. And
Speaker 1: I thought that was so smart of her. She kept
Speaker 1: saying that I love you. She never wanted to give
Speaker 1: him a sign that she was on to him. She's like,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna feed into this perfectly because I gotta get
Speaker 1: his clothes. I have to get these luggages to me.
Speaker 1: It's the belief for me. She literally had him believe
Speaker 1: in her. She made a decision to be smart and
Speaker 1: see if she could get some of her funds fast. Listen,
Speaker 1: I have done this before. A certain relationship ended and
Speaker 1: I sold everything for a dollar. Come on, over all
Speaker 1: my male friends polo shirts for days? Take them wait,
Speaker 1: a dollar each? A dollar each? I had to get
Speaker 1: some money back. We had to Hey, I had to
Speaker 1: get the investment. And at that point, you just so
Speaker 1: upset with how things went down. You just you just
Speaker 1: want your money. You're like, I need a large pizza.
Speaker 1: You don't even care what the return on investment is.
Speaker 1: You just want something so you don't feel like you
Speaker 1: lost everything. So that was some redemption. Absolutely, I completely
Speaker 1: agree with her. I'm glad she did it. Something that
Speaker 1: car and said that was really important is sometimes it's
Speaker 1: not about the amount of money. It's the fact that
Speaker 1: you feel like you got some retribution, that you had
Speaker 1: a chance to sort of calm that person maybe or
Speaker 1: to be able to get some sense of self returned.
Speaker 1: Because sometimes when you're in these situations, you really do
Speaker 1: feel like you have compromised maybe some of your thoughts,
Speaker 1: your values, your beliefs in order to be with this person,
Speaker 1: and then you find out that in the end the
Speaker 1: person you're with really was only a facade, and so
Speaker 1: you just really feel like, I need to get something
Speaker 1: in return. It was just the principle she just wanted
Speaker 1: something bad, some return on the investment. What else resonated
Speaker 1: with us for that episode, The part with Rachel how
Speaker 1: she got paid When you think about it, her doing
Speaker 1: the book once again, she wanted something back. She lost
Speaker 1: a lot, so she had to come up with a way.
Speaker 1: How can I bounce back? How can I get my
Speaker 1: credit back? And a lot of people would say, well,
Speaker 1: now you're using her, you're using her story. Well, yes,
Speaker 1: used me. I understand it. Well what do you think
Speaker 1: was the worst part of these scams? I mean people
Speaker 1: losing truly crazy amounts of money, or just the betrayal
Speaker 1: of the trust overall, which for each of you, which
Speaker 1: was the worst part? M money about her coin. I
Speaker 1: just hate how he went for their money, and I
Speaker 1: hate how they felt like they owed him. He sent
Speaker 1: me flowers. Nobody sent me flowers like that. These weren't
Speaker 1: just any roses. This was like dozens and dozens of roses.
Speaker 1: It just showed you just the little things that man
Speaker 1: would do just make you feel so overwhelm. It was
Speaker 1: one of those things that each one of the ladies,
Speaker 1: and I can't remember her name, but it was the
Speaker 1: first lady on the movie, and she was just saying that, Oh,
Speaker 1: I'm still looking for love. I am I'm looking for it,
Speaker 1: But I would I thought to myself. That should have
Speaker 1: slowed you down. Stop looking for it? Wait a man,
Speaker 1: at so you think you shouldn't have been I can belong.
Speaker 1: I don't think it's that she can't look for love.
Speaker 1: I think that we would hope that you would guard
Speaker 1: your heart a little bit more. I heard a male
Speaker 1: friend tell me one time, when a guy, actually, what
Speaker 1: are you looking for? Do not give them the road
Speaker 1: map to your heart. I want someone who cares about me,
Speaker 1: does the little things, because he's gonna care about you
Speaker 1: and do the little things. And he may just be
Speaker 1: memorizing what you're saying, and that may not be a
Speaker 1: true genuine act of who he is. So of course
Speaker 1: we would hope that she's maybe protecting her heart a
Speaker 1: little bit more. I'm gonna tell you, if the tendert
Speaker 1: wind that dated me, he wouldn't have got ten dollars.
Speaker 1: I don't know how he is saving I don't know
Speaker 1: how these women choose to save him. But that's just me.
Speaker 1: We wouldn't have made it far at all. Come on, ladies,
Speaker 1: let's let's be let's be really honest. Send me five percent,
Speaker 1: I would say. Of women, they're talking about the fact
Speaker 1: that they wanted meet a guy who they can have
Speaker 1: a choice of being able to take these fabulous vacations
Speaker 1: and having money at their disposal. A lot of women
Speaker 1: would like to have that, like South. So when you
Speaker 1: meet a guy who is on the very first day
Speaker 1: we've been a get on a privject. Right, I'm about
Speaker 1: to drop fifty thousand dollars on you, right right, I'm
Speaker 1: taking you to our totally different country. We're gonna party
Speaker 1: all night. We're eating at fabulous restaurants. And that's why
Speaker 1: a lot of times when you look at different shows
Speaker 1: or what have you, they have these high energy activities,
Speaker 1: and so it creates all of this emotion really quickly.
Speaker 1: You're away from your family or away from your friends.
Speaker 1: So it creates that environment where you're dependent on him financially, emotionally,
Speaker 1: psychologically because you don't know these people and you don't
Speaker 1: know this country. Right, Okay, that's a good point. That's
Speaker 1: a really good point. So it's literally it's just grooming
Speaker 1: you absolutely to be right for the picking. Let's talk
Speaker 1: about the elephant in the room here. As women of color,
Speaker 1: let's just call a thing a thing. Thank you. Ayana
Speaker 1: Vand's aunt. One aspect of the inventing. Anna story that
Speaker 1: the Red Table Talk participants did not get into was
Speaker 1: how race played a part in and his ability to
Speaker 1: scam the New York elite. And I know as a
Speaker 1: black woman, that would have never been my story. Okay,
Speaker 1: so Carl, you touched on it with the tenant swindler,
Speaker 1: and I feel like a lot of sisters, probably like
Speaker 1: Simon Wanta got me. But how do you think that
Speaker 1: would have worked for you? If you had tried to
Speaker 1: do what Anna did, it wouldn't have worked. I would
Speaker 1: have definitely got questioned at the hotel lobby. I wouldn't
Speaker 1: have made it up to the room. As soon as
Speaker 1: that car didn't go through, excuse me, stuck the elevator doors.
Speaker 1: Step back over here to the line with the X
Speaker 1: on it. I wouldn't have made it far. Stop that door. Yeah,
Speaker 1: we already know. It's not even just society, it's just
Speaker 1: a reality. The way that she could finagle and finesse
Speaker 1: her conversations and tip a hundred dollars to move how
Speaker 1: she wanted to move is the illusion of it. Also,
Speaker 1: I thought it was interesting, what did the guest? You're right,
Speaker 1: I don't think it would have worked for African Americans,
Speaker 1: because when we would have walked in, then the banking
Speaker 1: system would have immediately said, until we can prove that
Speaker 1: you are the sovereign king of Coubern, then this money.
Speaker 1: You know, and it takes a lot for us to
Speaker 1: even be able to get a meeting with the bank
Speaker 1: president or the person alone officer and the paperwork we
Speaker 1: have to have. We know that it wasn't covered at
Speaker 1: the table at Red Table Talk. Do you think that
Speaker 1: the whole aspect of race should have been talked about
Speaker 1: on the show? I mean, everybody thinks we talked about
Speaker 1: race so much nowadays, race is one of those things.
Speaker 1: It's not going anywhere. It is there, so can you
Speaker 1: talk about it? Yes? Did they think it was important
Speaker 1: at that time? Probably not. They just wanted to talk
Speaker 1: about the story. Where did the guests come from, where
Speaker 1: their state of mind? How did they it through? It
Speaker 1: wasn't really What do you think if it happened to
Speaker 1: a black person, I don't think that they would have
Speaker 1: said that. You think they should have, though, but I
Speaker 1: mean they could have, but it would have been very easy. No,
Speaker 1: we would have like it would have been a short
Speaker 1: lived conversation. Then we would have been drawn, well, why
Speaker 1: do you think African Americans can't get this? And that
Speaker 1: it would have gone in that and everybody knows why
Speaker 1: in a show such as it is. The two guests
Speaker 1: were Caucasians, so that would have maybe possibly made that
Speaker 1: uncomfortable for them. And also it was not their experience,
Speaker 1: so they would not have been able to really speak
Speaker 1: intelligently about it from a real knowledge base. So I
Speaker 1: think it would have been a discussion really with Jada
Speaker 1: and her mom, who would have been able to discuss that,
Speaker 1: So it would have been a really short conversation. But
Speaker 1: I mean, I think we do have to just accept
Speaker 1: and acknowledge that a lot of times, I called as
Speaker 1: your Mayo could walk in with his dungareeson say it,
Speaker 1: in his plaid shirt, and he would have been able
Speaker 1: to walk up and still have had a better chance
Speaker 1: than African American who may have been well groomed when
Speaker 1: they walked up to try to talk to the bank officer.
Speaker 1: You are so right. You could be a person of
Speaker 1: color and literally go in with proof of funding and
Speaker 1: still not be able to make investments at an investment
Speaker 1: bank or do whatever it is you want to do.
Speaker 1: You can't even make a deposit from your actual bank account.
Speaker 1: Ryan Coogler, we apologize to you for that, the whole
Speaker 1: Bank of Atlanta because what was that that part, Yes,
Speaker 1: that's that man's account. That was a fantastic example you
Speaker 1: just pointed out. Yeah, all right. Unfortunately, so I think
Speaker 1: it's it's worthy of being talked about or discussed, or
Speaker 1: whichever verb you want to use for talking there. But
Speaker 1: I'm glad we have this platform to talk about it
Speaker 1: because it's part of our reality. Right. We know, inventing
Speaker 1: a Niqua would have been one episode was in a
Speaker 1: series Invincing Cara because listen, I have some inequalities. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna just go ahead and let y'all know that I
Speaker 1: have some anna qualities. The way that girl believes in herself.
Speaker 1: It was the yacht for an extra week for me.
Speaker 1: I believe I deserve to be on the yacht. Now
Speaker 1: what I have stayed like that? Not quite, because I
Speaker 1: feel like after day one, they would have been like,
Speaker 1: so where is the group you came with? But I
Speaker 1: love how she believes in herself. I love that part.
Speaker 1: I love that part. I mean, don't you love that part?
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, that's why the people were hanging around
Speaker 1: her confidence. They say, people love to see a confident
Speaker 1: person because if you're confident, it's like a person can
Speaker 1: believe in you and you will feel comfortable following or
Speaker 1: listening to them. So I'll give it to her. She
Speaker 1: was confident, and I love the part. I love the firm.
Speaker 1: When she was in jail and she was like, I'm
Speaker 1: not coming out and how I get outfit? I need
Speaker 1: an outfit, Gert, you are going to go to jail.
Speaker 1: Where are you? You're gonna be on track? The looks
Speaker 1: for me. If she was African American, what would they
Speaker 1: have done? Would they have gotten her stylus? Since put
Speaker 1: on this orange jumpsuit? What we got orange and blue?
Speaker 1: But I just keep saying people of color because I
Speaker 1: just know that our Hispanic sisters they wouldn't have been
Speaker 1: able to do that either, right, And so it's just interesting.
Speaker 1: We got some work to do. Let's go ahead and
Speaker 1: talk about some more home hitting situations, because we could
Speaker 1: talk about what is and what abouts all day. But
Speaker 1: Ms Adrian, we know that you have a wild story here.
Speaker 1: I cannot wait to hear. But a scam artist on
Speaker 1: your college campus who was keeping up several different cons
Speaker 1: to make money off of his friends and your friends.
Speaker 1: What was this scam artists that you knew? Was he
Speaker 1: like Anna or was he like Simmon at all? And
Speaker 1: tell us exactly what happened. He was confident, he was friendly,
Speaker 1: everybody knew him. He had been on campus for a
Speaker 1: couple of years, and from there, I guess he wanted
Speaker 1: to make some money, and he started with doing credit cards,
Speaker 1: scamming with credit cards. Next it was scamming with gift cards,
Speaker 1: and then he pulled some people in with him, and
Speaker 1: from there it was just he worked it. He worked
Speaker 1: it on campus, but then it was better for him
Speaker 1: to work at off campus because he wasn't from that city,
Speaker 1: so he basically worked it in the city. And he
Speaker 1: got called. He got called, let me gets he got
Speaker 1: called because he got greedy. Oh yeah, if you just
Speaker 1: keep doing this at some point, I don't understand why
Speaker 1: people do not like to stop. Okay, I've made a
Speaker 1: lot of money. Maybe let me take this money and invested.
Speaker 1: I don't know if that ever clicks, but it's just
Speaker 1: greet You started seeing him. He dresses one way. Now
Speaker 1: you see him dress a totally different way. And now
Speaker 1: you see oh he was in that car first. Now
Speaker 1: I look at the car he's in, and I think,
Speaker 1: when you start changing the way you dress and what
Speaker 1: car you drive, that's a dad giveaway. People start to
Speaker 1: watch and notice these things. After that he got out
Speaker 1: of school. Let me just make sure I understand he
Speaker 1: was scamming you and your peers by selling them the
Speaker 1: gift card, saying like money was on the gift cards
Speaker 1: and there was no money, Oh my gosh, things like that.
Speaker 1: So who came back and beat them up? Because I'm
Speaker 1: trying to understand. Because that so it was very short
Speaker 1: lived on campus, Like you have to think about it.
Speaker 1: These are the people who I surround myself with. These
Speaker 1: are the people who I live on the campus and
Speaker 1: the dorms. When he did it once or twice, and
Speaker 1: I guess he saw that it could work. Then he
Speaker 1: went into the city because I'm not surrounding myself with
Speaker 1: my peers that I am doing all this messy scam
Speaker 1: me with. You. Think about the confidence that you talked
Speaker 1: about car. You said you appreciated or could see yourself,
Speaker 1: and Anna's confidence resonated and that she believed in herself,
Speaker 1: and we get that. I understand I was worried about
Speaker 1: you for a ment their car. I was like, wait
Speaker 1: a minute, now, you say what I was like, hold on.
Speaker 1: And then you got this con artist who was completely
Speaker 1: scamming people on campus. I mean, that's bad because you're
Speaker 1: talking about people that you know, that you're supposed to
Speaker 1: be connecting with and building futures with, potentially lifelong friends,
Speaker 1: but you talk about like them from a psychological perspective.
Speaker 1: D'r framan, I'm so glad you're here because I have
Speaker 1: to think that there's some narcissism that plays into this.
Speaker 1: Dr Romney said, all predators are narcissistic, but not all
Speaker 1: narcissists are predators. How can we tell if a narcissist
Speaker 1: in our life is predatorial? First of all, you have
Speaker 1: to understand what a narcissist is, right, So first of all,
Speaker 1: we just want to be clear that our narcissist is
Speaker 1: a person who really thinks very highly of themselves. They
Speaker 1: believe they have all types of skills and that they
Speaker 1: are able to achieve all sort of things. They will
Speaker 1: believe beyond what their actual ability is, and they convince
Speaker 1: everybody else. And if you look at her, she even
Speaker 1: had a little bit of psychopathy though there. But she
Speaker 1: was all about convincing everybody that she was who she was.
Speaker 1: A tender as Wonder all about helping people to realize
Speaker 1: that he was this famous person. And so when they
Speaker 1: become predatory is when in some ways they're much like
Speaker 1: Adrian is talking about that person who all of a
Speaker 1: sudden realizes I can take this charm that I have
Speaker 1: and funnel this into some kind of scheme that will
Speaker 1: convince people to trust me, to give me their money.
Speaker 1: And a lot of times a narcissists, they'll talk about
Speaker 1: themselves over and over again, they tell everybody the same story,
Speaker 1: and people really get to the place where they're even
Speaker 1: afraid to confront that person because they'll get loud on them,
Speaker 1: won't get embarrassing, humiliate other people in order to hold
Speaker 1: on to that status that they have convinced other people of.
Speaker 1: Because if you think about even at the end at
Speaker 1: the tenders Wanderer, to think of that at the end,
Speaker 1: his reaction when he thought that he was not gonna
Speaker 1: have any more money, his image was gonna be tarnished,
Speaker 1: that she was actually going to report him, he became
Speaker 1: very angry and irate about that. I love you and
Speaker 1: you wouldn't you would have ever seen because it was
Speaker 1: going to affect his image how other people saw him,
Speaker 1: and he was not having that. So beware then that
Speaker 1: you are probably interacting with some people who are narcissists,
Speaker 1: but the predatory part is different and there's some telltale signs.
Speaker 1: I appreciate that we need. Yeah, that's good because you know,
Speaker 1: I'm realizing being a narcissist isn't a bad thing. Now
Speaker 1: hear me out. We do have to hear you out
Speaker 1: on that, because if you want to be a narcissist
Speaker 1: and think that way in your own mind over there,
Speaker 1: do that. But it's when you start to impact other people.
Speaker 1: It's when you start to manipulate other people for your
Speaker 1: own good. I feel like I know some low level
Speaker 1: narcissists who just have a certain belief about themselves doesn't
Speaker 1: quite lead over onto other people. They're not manipulating others
Speaker 1: to go their way. But I feel like once those
Speaker 1: other resources get involved and entangled up in there, like
Speaker 1: my money, my time, my family, my business, it's just hurtful.
Speaker 1: Dr Frame, I'm gonna let you speak to this. Am
Speaker 1: I thinking wrong? People who are selfish? We all have
Speaker 1: something that is running around in our personality, right, so
Speaker 1: we all have something. Anybody asked me, I would definitely
Speaker 1: be transparent and say I'm obsessive compulsive personality disorder, which
Speaker 1: means that I have a tendency to like to do
Speaker 1: things the right way. I want to review it, make
Speaker 1: sure it's right, make sure that I do what I'm
Speaker 1: supposed to do, and that it looks a certain way,
Speaker 1: feels a certain way, and all of that. So that
Speaker 1: means that that's going to allow other people to have
Speaker 1: to wait sometimes a few minutes because I want to
Speaker 1: make sure this is right. You can have a bit
Speaker 1: of narcissism in you, but see, narcissists tend to mislead people.
Speaker 1: They lie. But see if they lie over there, I
Speaker 1: could just watch them lie. See what I'm saying, Like
Speaker 1: your O C D. Like that's your that's your moment
Speaker 1: for your thing. But when you start to tell me
Speaker 1: how to arrange my socks, that that's when I'm like, see, girls,
Speaker 1: we'll see. And that's the thing about a personality disorder
Speaker 1: in this particular case, it makes me really good at
Speaker 1: what I do. Right. But when you are thinking about
Speaker 1: like you said, but see an obsessive, compulsive. You know,
Speaker 1: disorder is different. So it's just it's about recognizing that
Speaker 1: we all have a little of something. You just don't
Speaker 1: know what it's called, right, But like you said, the
Speaker 1: narcissists is a person who we used them. When you're
Speaker 1: around them, you're usually gonna think they have a big
Speaker 1: head at all of time. The person who's not preasor
Speaker 1: you're just gonna always think that they're always bragging on themselves.
Speaker 1: They're always talking about what they're doing. They're telling everybody
Speaker 1: all about their life. That's glamorous, but you really know
Speaker 1: that that's not really where they came from. That's not
Speaker 1: really what they did, that's not how they got where
Speaker 1: they are. It's all of that that adds to the
Speaker 1: narcissistic nature, where that person actually starts to believe the
Speaker 1: lies they're telling. They've told them so often. I heard
Speaker 1: you say that Anna had a little bit of psychopathy,
Speaker 1: and so that's where she crossed over. She crossed from
Speaker 1: being in the narcissistic lane to squirting over to the
Speaker 1: psychopathy lane because she was demonstrating some other behaviors. Right
Speaker 1: in the case of Anna, she also had a little
Speaker 1: bit of psychopathy because she really believes that her ends
Speaker 1: just a fat her means and however she needed to
Speaker 1: do that, that's how she was going to make it happen.
Speaker 1: Got it. Okay, that's good, that's really good. Right. We
Speaker 1: need that, we need to hear that, we need to
Speaker 1: understand that car when you said, like all of us
Speaker 1: do have a lord, I'm like a home now, I saying,
Speaker 1: we don't associate the word narcissists with like positive if
Speaker 1: I'm a smart to be. So that's why I'm glad,
Speaker 1: Dr Freeman you were here. Not so much positive, but
Speaker 1: I feel like we hear the word a lot more
Speaker 1: often these days in the culture, and I feel like
Speaker 1: we tend to always associate it with bad once it's identified.
Speaker 1: Do but whatever the term may be. So like even
Speaker 1: when you explain your condition, we're not even condition, but
Speaker 1: Miss Freeman, when you explained like how it helps you
Speaker 1: in your work. So, I mean, these skills can help
Speaker 1: or hurt. And that's the part I think we need
Speaker 1: to focus on. Let's move on to how Eileen and
Speaker 1: Rachel were both tricked by people that they knew, and
Speaker 1: it's the trust that they've built that made them perfect targets. Unfortunately,
Speaker 1: and I know you Adrian got involved with the Pyramids scheme.
Speaker 1: We all waiting on this the races because your friends
Speaker 1: told you how great it was. We want to hear
Speaker 1: about this. What was it like for that endeavor to
Speaker 1: fall apart, not just for you, but also the people
Speaker 1: you recruited as well. We all want to know. I
Speaker 1: really didn't feel bad. I didn't feel like Rachel, like
Speaker 1: I was just taking advantage of it was one of
Speaker 1: my clients. That particular client is also a really close
Speaker 1: friend of mine, and so she's such a business minded
Speaker 1: person that when she brought it to me, I was like,
Speaker 1: oh girl, this is no Brander. Because when she brought it,
Speaker 1: she said, you don't have to do anything. I don't
Speaker 1: do anything. That was like nothing, I don't have to
Speaker 1: say anything, and I must say I can sail. But
Speaker 1: I didn't have seillhing this time. The only thing I
Speaker 1: had to do was recruit to people there. It was
Speaker 1: like recruit two people and put money in right and
Speaker 1: put five hundred dollars in just five of dollars and
Speaker 1: so the return you gotta hear the return power. She's
Speaker 1: trying to recruit us, be careful you get back five thousand. Classic,
Speaker 1: after you get that five thousand back, you have to
Speaker 1: take five hundred of that five thousand and put back
Speaker 1: in the pot and then take like two hundred or
Speaker 1: to fifty and give to the person who is over
Speaker 1: the recruiter of the recruiter. Yeah, because that's the person
Speaker 1: that's making the money off of everybody. But I found
Speaker 1: my two people. But then they go to say, you
Speaker 1: want to build your flower, right, So once your flower
Speaker 1: is complete, it's basically rotating itself. There's nothing else. Once
Speaker 1: you're a flower is locked and you have all your people,
Speaker 1: it's a no brainer, and it keeps feeding itself. So
Speaker 1: I actually got paid. So I was helping my other
Speaker 1: people with theirs. I even recruited my mom, kept my
Speaker 1: mom in on it. I wanna call my mom. How
Speaker 1: it works? Right? You believed your clients and then you
Speaker 1: saw immediate returns. In the truth's pyramid scheme, the way
Speaker 1: that they end up crumbling for the person, the bottom
Speaker 1: falls out at some point or there's some part that
Speaker 1: can't be fulfilled. So what happened was that true for you? Well,
Speaker 1: it was it fell out underneath mine. I got paid
Speaker 1: twice once I got my full amount that second time.
Speaker 1: Because my flower wasn't complete. I only got paid maybe
Speaker 1: like fifteen hundred. We didn't have enough people to put
Speaker 1: in their five hundred. Now, when it started falling and
Speaker 1: I saw my friends not getting there's even I was
Speaker 1: trying to help, I just said, you guys, let's stop
Speaker 1: right here. I'd rather pay my friends back their money.
Speaker 1: And that's what I did. I took my five thousand
Speaker 1: and I gave everybody back their money. You are a
Speaker 1: blessing because I would have been like, girl, we got God,
Speaker 1: y'all got scaled. We did here. Now check this out.
Speaker 1: I hate to say it, do I think it could
Speaker 1: have kept going? Yes, But remember how y'all talked about
Speaker 1: greed and we talked about winning. Are sent once and
Speaker 1: they gotta keep going, and they just see more and
Speaker 1: more and more. That's what happened. That people who were
Speaker 1: over there, they wanted to break off, of course, and
Speaker 1: they wanted to start their own. So the crazy thing
Speaker 1: is they were trying to pull people to starting a
Speaker 1: new one. That's how it works. It was the greed,
Speaker 1: and then you were giving your client and the people
Speaker 1: the benefit of the doubt, right, So they talked about,
Speaker 1: Oh well, I'll go ahead and do it. You trusted them,
Speaker 1: you thought everything was good, and then the bottom falls out,
Speaker 1: but the people at the top got their money. Carl
Speaker 1: just said, if she was with you, she would have
Speaker 1: been like, oh yeah, oh y'all get scam, I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: and that would have been that on that The thing
Speaker 1: about these pyramids games, they're all built on emotion, right.
Speaker 1: So you have someone who is very excited about it,
Speaker 1: they tell you what the returns are, they tell you
Speaker 1: their story, and then you say, oh, I can do
Speaker 1: that because they tell you what the characteristics are. Right.
Speaker 1: But I've heard of the scheme that as and it's
Speaker 1: talking about, and it really depends on you getting other
Speaker 1: people to, like she said, to complete your flower. So
Speaker 1: Adrian was a person who they came looking for her because,
Speaker 1: like she said, she had all the prerequisites. They knew
Speaker 1: she had people, they knew she had the money, they
Speaker 1: knew she talked a lot, they knew that she could
Speaker 1: get her friends to back into it. Someone called me
Speaker 1: with that scam they did, and they were trying to
Speaker 1: convince me. They all were that way. They are all
Speaker 1: dependent upon other people underneath you helping you to build
Speaker 1: your funds. It's funny because when I was in college,
Speaker 1: I had the same thing. I remember they were selling
Speaker 1: this thing. I ain't gonna say what it was, but
Speaker 1: they were selling these telephone services and they said you
Speaker 1: could come and you could get this, and I will
Speaker 1: say that. Unfortunately I bought in because they all say
Speaker 1: five hundred dollars and how much more you're gonna make.
Speaker 1: I did that for two days. After I realized, don't
Speaker 1: call my family and they wouldn't change their phone service.
Speaker 1: I said, no, that's not gonna work, because the third
Speaker 1: day you could get your money back. So that's where
Speaker 1: I was. I was at the post office on day three,
Speaker 1: sending back their material and telling them to give me
Speaker 1: my money back. And I wasn't sure that they were
Speaker 1: gonna give me my money back, so I wanted here
Speaker 1: to just cancel that check. You had your safety net
Speaker 1: in place, because they're gonna tell you gotta wait nine
Speaker 1: to day. They go, wait to the pool, come back,
Speaker 1: get your child. Hilarious. Dr Romney said the foremost dangerous
Speaker 1: words in the English language are benefit of the doubt.
Speaker 1: How can we extend grace to people without putting ourselves
Speaker 1: at risk? Dr Freeman. It just kind of takes really
Speaker 1: taking the time to get to know people. Sometimes we
Speaker 1: are in such a rush to establish relationships to believe
Speaker 1: things before we actually have prooven. We want to just
Speaker 1: encourage people that when someone tells you something, you don't
Speaker 1: take your time to get to know people. See if
Speaker 1: you meet their friends, see about the things that are
Speaker 1: being said. Do things check out. We recognize that in
Speaker 1: these two cases it really was about trust. It was
Speaker 1: the fact that the person hurry up and created that
Speaker 1: sense of trust. You can believe me, look at all
Speaker 1: I'm doing for you. And so we have to just
Speaker 1: believe that any time somebody is rushing a process, you
Speaker 1: need to stop and ask yourself, why are we rushing?
Speaker 1: What's the purpose in rushing that's a good one. What
Speaker 1: is it that we cannot wait and find out. It's
Speaker 1: almost like someone who's trying to sell you something. They said,
Speaker 1: well you gotta buy it today. Well then you have
Speaker 1: to wonder, Okay, what's gonna happen if if tomorrow? Is
Speaker 1: this the best option for me? And a lot of
Speaker 1: times they're rushing you because of the fact that they
Speaker 1: don't want you to be able to think they wanted
Speaker 1: on Marge. You heard Dr Ronnie say they talked about
Speaker 1: the love bombing. Some people will describe love bombing like
Speaker 1: being in a fairy tale. It's an overwhelming process of seduction.
Speaker 1: It's big gifts, it's grand gestures, it's big nights out,
Speaker 1: it's going on vacation on your third day. Yeah, okay.
Speaker 1: It's an indoctrination. It builds not only your love, but
Speaker 1: it builds your trust. It's sensory overload so that you're
Speaker 1: so swept up in the emotion, whether it's from the
Speaker 1: Ponzi scheme where you think you're gonna make a lot
Speaker 1: of money, or whether it is from just that whole
Speaker 1: hope of love and you're concerned that if I don't
Speaker 1: move now, if I don't act now, am I going
Speaker 1: to lose it? That's good, that's good. I had a
Speaker 1: family member of friends that years ago. If you got
Speaker 1: a background, it needs to be checked. M I like that,
Speaker 1: But my dad is said, not long ago, well, years ago.
Speaker 1: Never trust the fast talking man. They're con man. And
Speaker 1: that's been technically true. Slow down, listen to your gut,
Speaker 1: take your time getting to know people. That's good. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's really good. Well, ladies, Is there anything that you
Speaker 1: would have wished that Jada, Willow or Gammy would have
Speaker 1: asked the guests, Is there anything that comes to mind?
Speaker 1: I would have wanted them to ask what would they
Speaker 1: have done different? Do they themselves recognize when things went awry?
Speaker 1: When is it that they were failing to check their gut?
Speaker 1: When was it that they thought that they should have
Speaker 1: pressed pause but they just kept going. It's one thing
Speaker 1: for people to tell you about a situation, but it's
Speaker 1: another for you to be able to think through and
Speaker 1: problem side. Because it also helps you to know your
Speaker 1: own triggers. You can find yourself in the same situation
Speaker 1: with a different person or with a different circumstance because
Speaker 1: you really didn't look at your issue to know that
Speaker 1: that's something that you really need. M self assessed, Adrian
Speaker 1: to like what you said earlier. She said she was
Speaker 1: still looking for love by the time she was that
Speaker 1: the n seamen as though she may be unchanged. But
Speaker 1: I would like to know how she's guardening her heart
Speaker 1: now or is she taking it slower than she had previously.
Speaker 1: We could go and deep dive and talk like I
Speaker 1: have so enjoyed this conversation about these shows and the
Speaker 1: fantastic episode on the Tendler Swindler and Anna Deelvi, But
Speaker 1: we've got to go. It's time to say goodbout. We
Speaker 1: know that we have some of the best community participants
Speaker 1: in the world, and YouTube are absolutely contributors to that excellence.
Speaker 1: So thank you both so much for being with us
Speaker 1: at this virtual red table. Thank you for the value.
Speaker 1: Thank you for having me. Carl. You know, our guests
Speaker 1: killed it today. I loved it so so glad we
Speaker 1: got to hear from them, and we're going to take
Speaker 1: a short break right now, and when we return, we'll
Speaker 1: share our top five takeaways from this episode. I learned
Speaker 1: so much during this episode, and I learned a lot
Speaker 1: from our guests as well. But now it's time to
Speaker 1: share our thoughts, presenting Carl and Tracy top five thoughts
Speaker 1: for sure. You know I love this. Yes, this is
Speaker 1: a part of the show where we speed through five
Speaker 1: thoughts slash takeaways from this episode. Let's fire him off, Car,
Speaker 1: go for it. Let's fire him off. Number five. We
Speaker 1: want you guys to look out for red flags and
Speaker 1: act accordingly. Listen, don't get caught up in giving someone
Speaker 1: the benefit of the doubt. Remember there are no benefits
Speaker 1: to any doubts. Love it. Number four, scam artists will
Speaker 1: always want more. Walk away right away, We'll go away.
Speaker 1: Yeah that's hard for me, but I am going to
Speaker 1: start walking away. Number three. If you've been scammed, allow
Speaker 1: yourself to trust again. Yeah, Tracy, we know you've been impacted.
Speaker 1: Do you feel like you can trust again? Absolutely? I
Speaker 1: just keep on trusting. Number two. Scamming is one thing,
Speaker 1: betrail is another. It's one thing to have someone seal money,
Speaker 1: but then it's another thing to feel like someone you
Speaker 1: cared about betrayed you so deeply, and it's so nonchalant
Speaker 1: about it. Jada said that, and that's the truth. So
Speaker 1: nonchalant for me. I don't like that party like you're
Speaker 1: gonna care a little bit that you did this to me.
Speaker 1: I'm making care if I can. But Number one our
Speaker 1: last one. Any of us could fall for a scam,
Speaker 1: So blame the scammer, not the victim or the situation.
Speaker 1: Blame the scammer. We want to know how you're feeling
Speaker 1: about this new season of Red Table Talk. We are
Speaker 1: open to talk about anything with you, so please send
Speaker 1: in your questions at Let's Red Table That at red
Speaker 1: table talk dot com. Thank you so much for listening.
Speaker 1: Make sure you subscribe on I Heart Radio app and
Speaker 1: please rate this podcast on Apple podcast. We want five,
Speaker 1: so be clear, we want five car what do we
Speaker 1: want five only? We'll be back next week for another
Speaker 1: episode of Let's Red Table That. A big thank you
Speaker 1: to our executive producers Jada Pinkett Smith, Ellen racketts In
Speaker 1: and Fallon Jethro. And thank you to our producer Kyla
Speaker 1: Kina Rum and our associate producers Maria de LaRosa and
Speaker 1: Yolanda Chow. And finally, thank you to our sound engineers
Speaker 1: Calvin Bailiff and Devin Donnighy. We love you. It's a
Speaker 1: wrap