WEBVTT - The Diddy Verdict Explains EVERYTHING About Men + Power Right Now 0:00:03.240 --> 0:00:05.840 No one has all the answers, but when we ask 0:00:05.880 --> 0:00:10.680 the right questions, we get a little closer, closer to truths, 0:00:11.440 --> 0:00:16.560 closer to each other, even closer to ourselves. I'm journalist 0:00:16.600 --> 0:00:19.280 Danielle Robe, and each week, my guests and I come 0:00:19.360 --> 0:00:22.800 together to challenge the status quo and our own ways 0:00:22.800 --> 0:00:27.360 of thinking by daring to ask what if, why not? 0:00:28.320 --> 0:00:33.480 And who says? So? Come curious, dig deep, and join 0:00:33.520 --> 0:00:41.320 the conversation. It's time to question everything. Okay, I don't 0:00:41.320 --> 0:00:43.879 know about you, but I have decided that my new 0:00:43.960 --> 0:00:47.840 year starts February first, because this month has been a blur. 0:00:48.280 --> 0:00:51.240 I just got back from Veil. I wanted to spend 0:00:51.280 --> 0:00:54.080 my birthday on a mountain skiing. And this is going 0:00:54.120 --> 0:00:56.000 to sound so la, but I'm gonna just say it. 0:00:56.120 --> 0:00:59.480 The amazing woman who I get spray tands with is 0:00:59.520 --> 0:01:02.760 also in a s astrologer, and she like read my 0:01:02.840 --> 0:01:05.920 chart for my birthday and she told me that one 0:01:05.920 --> 0:01:08.680 of my missions in life is to realize that joy 0:01:08.760 --> 0:01:12.600 and play are not earned. And I laughed so hard 0:01:12.600 --> 0:01:15.000 when she said that to me, because what do you 0:01:15.080 --> 0:01:18.040 mean They're not earned? Yes, they are, so I am 0:01:18.080 --> 0:01:21.720 trying to work on that and trying to play a 0:01:21.720 --> 0:01:23.559 little bit more. I don't know what that even means 0:01:23.560 --> 0:01:26.400 to me, because like, I'm a Capricorn and everything is serious. 0:01:26.680 --> 0:01:29.000 But I bring that all up to say I actually 0:01:29.080 --> 0:01:31.639 do feel that when I'm skiing, I feel so free. 0:01:32.160 --> 0:01:34.640 So I spent my birthday on a mountain. I'm back. 0:01:34.720 --> 0:01:37.120 I'm ready to get back to work properly. I'm ready 0:01:37.160 --> 0:01:40.480 to like get in. I think I needed to hibernate 0:01:40.560 --> 0:01:43.280 like a little bear for a little bit, and I've 0:01:43.319 --> 0:01:46.160 not been great on my visualization practices. I've been going 0:01:46.200 --> 0:01:48.640 in and out, and I'm ready to commit finally. So 0:01:48.800 --> 0:01:51.080 if you've been better than me, then I'm so proud 0:01:51.120 --> 0:01:54.720 of you. Congratulations. And if you are lagging a little 0:01:54.720 --> 0:01:59.640 bit like me, let's just jump in together. February first, Okay, anyways, 0:01:59.640 --> 0:02:02.200 I want to to today's episode because I had so 0:02:02.320 --> 0:02:06.559 much fun recording it. I learned so much, and it's 0:02:06.600 --> 0:02:08.680 going to be one of those few that I actually 0:02:08.720 --> 0:02:12.400 listened back to because I want to relearn and sort 0:02:12.400 --> 0:02:15.160 of rehear what our guest had to say. I know 0:02:15.160 --> 0:02:16.880 there's going to be stuff that I pick up this 0:02:16.960 --> 0:02:22.720 time around, so let's get into it. Do you ever 0:02:22.760 --> 0:02:26.160 feel like culture is glitching. It feels like it's been happening, 0:02:26.240 --> 0:02:29.320 both slowly and all at once. The rise of AI, 0:02:29.639 --> 0:02:33.160 a new era under President Trump, a total reordering of 0:02:33.200 --> 0:02:36.240 how we consume media and art, and the Hollywood business 0:02:36.280 --> 0:02:40.720 models are scrambling to keep up. Celebrity used to mean mystique, 0:02:40.720 --> 0:02:42.600 and now it means a ring light and a good angle. 0:02:42.880 --> 0:02:45.440 Something is changing, and it has been for a while, 0:02:45.480 --> 0:02:47.320 and I think it's hard to tell where it is 0:02:47.400 --> 0:02:50.520 actually all headed. That's a question that's been circling my mind. 0:02:50.840 --> 0:02:53.959 But I think when things feel uncertain, there's one place 0:02:54.000 --> 0:02:58.440 that always tells the truth. First, pop culture. Bear with me, okay. 0:02:58.760 --> 0:03:02.040 I think it shows us what we excuse, who we worship, 0:03:02.400 --> 0:03:04.760 and what we pretend not to see long before we 0:03:04.800 --> 0:03:07.680 admit it out loud. Pop Culture is a mirror. It 0:03:07.760 --> 0:03:10.320 shows us where we are and where we're going. And 0:03:10.320 --> 0:03:13.880 today's guest doesn't just watch culture, she reads it like 0:03:13.919 --> 0:03:18.079 a receipt. Christiana back Medina is the creator of pop Syllabus, 0:03:18.440 --> 0:03:22.280 which is my favorite substack and now the name of 0:03:22.280 --> 0:03:24.800 her new podcast as well. She's one of the sharpest 0:03:24.800 --> 0:03:28.320 cultural critics and quite honestly sharpest people in the zeitgeist. 0:03:28.800 --> 0:03:31.600 She has this very rare talent for seeing the pattern 0:03:31.760 --> 0:03:35.280 underneath the headline. For instance, she can take a ditty verdict, 0:03:35.360 --> 0:03:38.800 a tradwife TikTok, a celebrity headline, a met Gallas sponsorship, 0:03:38.880 --> 0:03:41.440 the death of a celebrity apology and somehow make it 0:03:41.480 --> 0:03:45.360 all point to the same big question what are we 0:03:45.440 --> 0:03:48.920 rewarding right now? And why who do we give power to? 0:03:49.080 --> 0:03:51.400 And what does it say about us? And you know 0:03:51.440 --> 0:03:54.320 I love to dissect culture too, so today Christiana and 0:03:54.360 --> 0:03:57.320 I get into it all from her views on what 0:03:57.400 --> 0:03:58.920 the ditty trial really mean. 0:04:00.120 --> 0:04:03.760 They broken and needs to be problematic men, and we 0:04:03.840 --> 0:04:06.960 absolved that even when we find out about any wrongdoing 0:04:07.120 --> 0:04:08.320 they've done to. 0:04:08.360 --> 0:04:11.640 The complete collapse of celebrity mystique. 0:04:11.440 --> 0:04:16.479 Quite ash really collapsed for celebrity. It's right because it's 0:04:16.560 --> 0:04:19.240 just like, sure, you may have this celebrity you as 0:04:19.279 --> 0:04:22.160 a publicist and a studio system and a stylist and 0:04:22.200 --> 0:04:25.599 the whole team around them, but they can't necessarily compared 0:04:25.640 --> 0:04:26.880 to with gal that can just do it. 0:04:26.880 --> 0:04:29.240 Get ready with me and get median youth. 0:04:29.680 --> 0:04:32.919 We get into why we are obsessed with wealth in 0:04:32.960 --> 0:04:37.400 our culture, but why we also sort of despise rich people, 0:04:37.920 --> 0:04:41.440 how celebrity got demystified, and what replaces that man. We 0:04:41.480 --> 0:04:44.960 talk about the tradway, fantasy and the fine print nobody posts, 0:04:45.200 --> 0:04:48.520 and then we get into her twenty twenty six predictions, 0:04:48.560 --> 0:04:52.080 including who's poised for a comeback, what aesthetic is taking over, 0:04:52.240 --> 0:04:55.640 and what we're underestimating about AI. So I'm not gonna lie. 0:04:55.640 --> 0:04:58.080 We are circling a ton of questions today. But if 0:04:58.080 --> 0:04:59.720 I had to wrap it all into a tiny little 0:04:59.720 --> 0:05:02.440 bow and say we are circling one thing, I say 0:05:02.440 --> 0:05:04.800 that we are circling why do we keep giving power 0:05:04.839 --> 0:05:08.039 to the same kinds of people and what does that 0:05:08.160 --> 0:05:11.919 say about us? Okay, it's time to question everything with 0:05:12.000 --> 0:05:20.760 Christiana back Medina. Christiana, welcome to question everything. 0:05:20.839 --> 0:05:22.800 Thank you for having me. I'm happy to be me. 0:05:23.080 --> 0:05:25.200 I'm really excited. I've been wanting to talk to you, 0:05:25.640 --> 0:05:29.200 I think for about a year. My friend Natalie shared 0:05:29.360 --> 0:05:32.400 your work with me and I've been a huge band 0:05:32.600 --> 0:05:33.159 ever since. 0:05:33.520 --> 0:05:34.160 Thank you. 0:05:34.160 --> 0:05:36.920 You know he's gonna be so jealous. She's that here. 0:05:37.520 --> 0:05:39.800 But I think in a digital age, there are so 0:05:39.880 --> 0:05:42.599 many voices that it's hard to cut through the noise, 0:05:43.160 --> 0:05:47.240 and you somehow really have. What do you think it is? 0:05:47.640 --> 0:05:49.840 Some people call me a bit witchy. My mother pulls 0:05:49.839 --> 0:05:52.160 me anointed, as I like to say. But I think 0:05:52.240 --> 0:05:55.159 just because of my background, I occupied like a unique 0:05:55.279 --> 0:05:58.440 vantage point and I think it's my place in the 0:05:58.480 --> 0:06:01.039 world that makes me see things that others perhaps don't. 0:06:01.200 --> 0:06:03.400 I don't think like I'm uniquely brilliant. I just think 0:06:03.600 --> 0:06:06.920 my identity and my experiences I see things that other 0:06:06.920 --> 0:06:09.880 people maybe ignore, or I make connections other people don't, 0:06:09.920 --> 0:06:12.640 and I think because of that it resonates with people. 0:06:12.960 --> 0:06:15.560 That makes sense. Can you share more about your background? 0:06:15.760 --> 0:06:18.600 Yeah, grew up in London, in South London. 0:06:19.120 --> 0:06:23.080 Parents are Nigerian immigrants, where I spent my childhood, most 0:06:23.120 --> 0:06:25.080 of my early adulthood, and then I came out to 0:06:25.120 --> 0:06:27.960 the States when I was about twenty seven years old. 0:06:28.160 --> 0:06:30.920 I feel like I'm dating myself now and I've lived 0:06:30.920 --> 0:06:31.840 here for a decade. 0:06:32.160 --> 0:06:33.600 What made you come to America? 0:06:33.720 --> 0:06:35.960 That's a very lonely question, you know what it is. 0:06:36.160 --> 0:06:39.360 I knew there was like a bigger world out there, 0:06:39.800 --> 0:06:42.880 and I wanted to do something different that I knew 0:06:43.120 --> 0:06:46.280 England perhaps wouldn't allow me to do, especially on like 0:06:46.320 --> 0:06:49.440 the writing side of my work, and I was like, 0:06:50.040 --> 0:06:52.839 why not. You know, it was a bit insane in hindsight, 0:06:52.920 --> 0:06:54.680 like you have to be a bit delusional, and I 0:06:54.720 --> 0:06:56.760 was like, let me just try. And then I ended 0:06:56.839 --> 0:07:01.080 up being here for over a decade, getting married, having kids, 0:07:01.320 --> 0:07:03.600 have three anchor babies, so it's going to be very 0:07:03.600 --> 0:07:04.680 hard to get. 0:07:04.320 --> 0:07:04.800 Out of here. 0:07:04.880 --> 0:07:06.760 You have three babies, I have frekids. I do not 0:07:06.880 --> 0:07:09.000 know that he is a free kid girl. You have 0:07:09.000 --> 0:07:09.920 an American. 0:07:09.600 --> 0:07:12.080 Husband, Yes, I have an American husband who grew up 0:07:12.080 --> 0:07:13.720 in New York piece of Dominican descent. 0:07:13.880 --> 0:07:16.160 So there's a lot of languages in my house. 0:07:16.280 --> 0:07:20.120 Like I go between English and if my husband speaks Spanish, 0:07:20.160 --> 0:07:21.800 so there's a lot happening. 0:07:22.080 --> 0:07:25.920 How do you think about instilling certain culture in your kids? 0:07:26.080 --> 0:07:29.520 Yeah, I think I just be myself. Like my parents 0:07:29.600 --> 0:07:31.640 always send these care packages, are a lot of very 0:07:31.680 --> 0:07:34.600 British snacks, so my kids are like pussy pigs are 0:07:34.600 --> 0:07:37.520 real McCoy's and penguins, so those are their snack references. 0:07:37.680 --> 0:07:40.240 I speak I both to my children and so they 0:07:40.400 --> 0:07:42.960 use words here and there. And my husband is taken 0:07:43.000 --> 0:07:45.600 care of his past. So we're just ourselves. We're very 0:07:45.640 --> 0:07:48.640 intentional about being ourselves and our kids are just like 0:07:48.720 --> 0:07:50.880 a wonderful blend like both of us. 0:07:50.920 --> 0:07:53.000 I like to think they're also like nuts. 0:07:53.040 --> 0:07:55.280 Do you consider yourself a writer first? 0:07:55.760 --> 0:07:59.840 I think that's the mode I'm most comfortable expressing my idea. 0:08:00.560 --> 0:08:02.240 I think you get to be a bit more reflective. 0:08:02.400 --> 0:08:04.680 And I kind a habit of like saying the wrong thing. 0:08:04.880 --> 0:08:07.440 That's like kind of my grand funny. Yeah, I just 0:08:07.440 --> 0:08:09.520 put my mind in a way that like people don't 0:08:09.560 --> 0:08:11.560 like women too, So like the thing about writing, I 0:08:11.560 --> 0:08:13.600 get to be a bit more measured. Even when I'm 0:08:13.640 --> 0:08:17.720 being inflammatory. I'm inflammatory and it's smart and measured. Yeah, 0:08:17.760 --> 0:08:19.880 I'm always getting kicked out of group chats. What I 0:08:19.960 --> 0:08:22.600 like about writing is that I can be myself, but 0:08:22.640 --> 0:08:25.280 it also forts to me to be more reflective or 0:08:25.360 --> 0:08:28.160 fall And once it exists in the world, you want 0:08:28.200 --> 0:08:30.320 people to receive it in the right spirit, you know. 0:08:30.400 --> 0:08:33.480 So let's say write first, and then think. 0:08:33.559 --> 0:08:35.680 Do you feel like when your friends say that and 0:08:35.679 --> 0:08:38.560 they take you places? Is it because they don't want 0:08:38.600 --> 0:08:41.040 to catch you debating and ruffling feathers? 0:08:41.600 --> 0:08:42.880 And what is it for you? 0:08:43.080 --> 0:08:44.199 Do you feel like you. 0:08:44.360 --> 0:08:47.160 Like the back and floor I spoke about this recently 0:08:47.240 --> 0:08:49.840 on another podcast. I think it's my father, Like this 0:08:49.920 --> 0:08:53.120 whole thing was always he'd make the statement and he 0:08:53.280 --> 0:08:55.640 was curious about the posision I would take, and he 0:08:55.640 --> 0:08:57.080 would always take the opposite one. 0:08:57.160 --> 0:08:59.040 He's like my debatable sparring partner. 0:08:59.320 --> 0:09:01.600 So when you raise by a man like that, and 0:09:01.640 --> 0:09:03.480 then my mom's a big reader as well. 0:09:03.720 --> 0:09:06.679 When you have parents like my parents, you just always. 0:09:06.400 --> 0:09:08.839 Want to say something that's not a bit outrageous, but 0:09:08.880 --> 0:09:10.800 like you like to engage with ideas, and I think 0:09:10.800 --> 0:09:12.360 it comes from that. But then you go into the 0:09:12.400 --> 0:09:14.280 world and you're like, oh my god, everyone's polite and 0:09:14.320 --> 0:09:16.440 you're not supposed to give your opinion at the dinner table. 0:09:16.440 --> 0:09:19.680 You're supposed to do small. But I wasn't prepared for that. 0:09:19.920 --> 0:09:22.280 So my friends are like, hey, for meeting you. People 0:09:22.679 --> 0:09:24.360 don't let them know how crazy you are. 0:09:24.640 --> 0:09:26.800 When you were dating, was it important for you to 0:09:26.800 --> 0:09:29.400 meet a maan that was a thinker and like led 0:09:29.480 --> 0:09:30.200 with conversation. 0:09:30.480 --> 0:09:33.040 I don't like to speak to most men after five pm, 0:09:33.120 --> 0:09:34.520 let alone a stupid man. 0:09:35.480 --> 0:09:36.840 So I knew like whoever. 0:09:36.520 --> 0:09:39.440 I ended up with had to be like my intellectual people, 0:09:39.480 --> 0:09:41.720 if not like smart. I always say, my husband's smarter 0:09:41.800 --> 0:09:44.000 than means. That's what I needed. I needed somebody that 0:09:44.120 --> 0:09:46.600 I admired, the intellects and stuff like that. Yeah, out 0:09:46.920 --> 0:09:49.400 end dates, but you know you say the check please, 0:09:49.520 --> 0:09:51.559 like I'm out. Yeah, that was very important to me. 0:09:51.800 --> 0:09:55.439 So you sit at the intersection of politics, pop culture, rates, 0:09:55.640 --> 0:09:59.520 and the internet. Yeah, when you analyze culture, what questions 0:09:59.600 --> 0:10:02.120 are you asking yourself? What are you looking for? 0:10:02.280 --> 0:10:04.319 And I asked that because you have such a unique 0:10:04.360 --> 0:10:05.000 point of view. 0:10:05.040 --> 0:10:08.240 I'm asking why, like why now? 0:10:08.880 --> 0:10:12.480 In particular because I think Angler Metal, the formula transfer 0:10:12.600 --> 0:10:15.439 of Germany said something very interesting, You said, Paris raising. 0:10:15.480 --> 0:10:18.120 He said, history doesn't repeat itself, but there are patterns, 0:10:18.679 --> 0:10:20.679 and I think in pop culture and the kind of 0:10:20.760 --> 0:10:23.079 zone I'm in, there are always these patterns. And I 0:10:23.120 --> 0:10:25.199 think we can be lazy, but like, this has happened before, 0:10:25.320 --> 0:10:27.560 but if you look at the past, there were maybe 0:10:27.600 --> 0:10:30.000 signs that this would happen. And I'm curious about why 0:10:30.080 --> 0:10:32.800 is it happening now? Right, That's the thing I'm thinking about. 0:10:32.800 --> 0:10:35.079 Why is it happening now? How can I connect it 0:10:35.200 --> 0:10:37.480 to a past? And what does it say about the future? 0:10:37.720 --> 0:10:40.079 And that is like my bag in terms of pop 0:10:40.120 --> 0:10:40.600 culture and. 0:10:40.640 --> 0:10:42.640 Like my lens, and so are you always when you're 0:10:42.800 --> 0:10:45.959 researching a topic, are you going back to historical references? 0:10:46.760 --> 0:10:48.760 Or have you been a student of history? They just 0:10:48.840 --> 0:10:49.120 come to you. 0:10:49.360 --> 0:10:53.200 I think everyone's version of a historical reference is different. 0:10:53.320 --> 0:10:55.480 Right. I'm a pop culture girl that grew up in 0:10:55.880 --> 0:11:00.439 England and that is the big Breakference's SMTV Lives the UK. 0:11:00.559 --> 0:11:02.320 It's Top of the Pops, which shows that like your 0:11:02.320 --> 0:11:03.199 American isn't going. 0:11:03.160 --> 0:11:04.880 To be like what the hell is that? But people 0:11:05.120 --> 0:11:06.880 back home are like, yeah, those are our references. 0:11:06.960 --> 0:11:09.200 We remember when Robbie Williams or the Spice Scales were 0:11:09.280 --> 0:11:11.719 on these shows, right yeah, And it's Bliss magazine and 0:11:12.000 --> 0:11:14.959 so it's a whole different pop culture canon in a way. 0:11:15.080 --> 0:11:18.199 And then it's of course like my Nigerian British subculture 0:11:18.240 --> 0:11:20.720 and take garage and all of these things that really 0:11:20.840 --> 0:11:23.440 inform the lens at which I look at things happening 0:11:23.480 --> 0:11:27.439 in maybe India or like the US. So when I 0:11:27.520 --> 0:11:30.320 say history, some of it it's like my own personal nostalgia. 0:11:30.520 --> 0:11:34.040 But there are these very big, broader historical themes that 0:11:34.080 --> 0:11:36.680 I think we cannot ignore when look at culture. Whether 0:11:36.720 --> 0:11:39.600 it's like women getting the right to vote, whether it's 0:11:39.800 --> 0:11:43.600 like the Civil rights era, because especially in a US context, 0:11:43.960 --> 0:11:46.520 that shape so much of where we are today. So like, 0:11:46.600 --> 0:11:48.520 there are the big tip poles that I'm always looking 0:11:48.559 --> 0:11:50.719 at and I'm always thinking about. In a way, I 0:11:50.800 --> 0:11:54.240 think twenty twenty uprisings and COVID, like what did that 0:11:54.360 --> 0:11:56.880 do to pop culture? I feel like COVID created this 0:11:57.120 --> 0:11:59.040 kind of animal who doesn't go out much. 0:11:59.040 --> 0:11:59.800 I put myself in that. 0:12:00.120 --> 0:12:02.319 I used to go out a lot more before we 0:12:02.480 --> 0:12:03.960 shut down. And I think a lot of people are 0:12:04.000 --> 0:12:07.160 consuming pop culture at home and they want to return home. 0:12:07.440 --> 0:12:11.599 Whereas before, like maybe twenty nineteen, it was like, you 0:12:11.679 --> 0:12:14.400 know what, let's go and watch this movie together, but 0:12:14.520 --> 0:12:16.720 now it's like, you know what, I'm going to wait 0:12:17.080 --> 0:12:19.880 the night forty five days, which it is now, until 0:12:19.920 --> 0:12:22.079 it's on my streamer, and maybe I'm gonna watch work 0:12:22.080 --> 0:12:23.800 it at home, like I don't need to do this 0:12:24.320 --> 0:12:27.280 in the theater. And I think twenty twenty kind of 0:12:27.760 --> 0:12:30.920 change certain behaviors, you know, zoom parties or like just 0:12:31.040 --> 0:12:34.080 working from home. I think we become different animals because 0:12:34.120 --> 0:12:37.600 of twenty twenty, the racial uprisings and the event of COVID. 0:12:38.000 --> 0:12:39.840 So that's something I think about a lot, Like, how 0:12:39.880 --> 0:12:41.920 does the twenty twenty years of it all in this 0:12:42.080 --> 0:12:45.000 kind of mass traumatic event affects how people are creating 0:12:45.160 --> 0:12:46.000 pop culture and how. 0:12:45.920 --> 0:12:49.319 We're consuming it, consuming from home is really interesting to 0:12:49.480 --> 0:12:52.400 me besides the obvious, Yes, we're consuming at home. But 0:12:52.520 --> 0:12:54.840 I have a friend whose husband was a party promoter 0:12:54.960 --> 0:12:57.360 year ago, and he said people used to come to 0:12:57.480 --> 0:12:59.760 clubs to see what people were wearing. That was like 0:12:59.800 --> 0:13:02.000 a big drop. It was fashion, and then when the 0:13:02.080 --> 0:13:06.120 Internet and Instagram happened, you didn't really need the clubs. 0:13:06.440 --> 0:13:08.000 And that's kind of when clubs die. 0:13:08.080 --> 0:13:09.840 Yeah, I mean, I don't that's the club or anybody. 0:13:09.960 --> 0:13:12.000 I hate clubs me too. 0:13:12.600 --> 0:13:14.400 I want a book club. I don't want any of 0:13:14.440 --> 0:13:15.480 the club I don't want. 0:13:15.520 --> 0:13:18.480 It's noisy, like the bottles and the door and some 0:13:18.640 --> 0:13:20.360 man judging me when I'm willing to get it now 0:13:20.400 --> 0:13:23.599 I'm twelve fashion, But like, yeah, you can see the 0:13:23.640 --> 0:13:26.720 clubs from your phone. You can see Cachella from your phone, 0:13:26.760 --> 0:13:28.920 and the vipon section people are sharing. 0:13:28.679 --> 0:13:31.199 That, and then you can find fashion on your phone. 0:13:31.280 --> 0:13:31.439 You know. 0:13:31.920 --> 0:13:34.720 I remember the moment that I realized that pop culture 0:13:34.840 --> 0:13:37.839 was more than a tabloid magazine. I grew up in 0:13:37.960 --> 0:13:41.480 a family that was academic, and so they would kind 0:13:41.520 --> 0:13:42.120 of make fun of me. 0:13:42.200 --> 0:13:44.400 They were like, you're wasting your brain. What are you 0:13:44.600 --> 0:13:45.720 doing this garbage? 0:13:46.240 --> 0:13:48.559 And I moved to LA and started working at like 0:13:48.720 --> 0:13:51.559 E and Entertainment Tonight, and I realized that it is 0:13:51.600 --> 0:13:53.760 a mirror. It's like we are informing it, and it 0:13:53.840 --> 0:13:56.880 is informing us, and it's reflecting where we are as 0:13:56.920 --> 0:14:00.199 a society. Do you remember the moment you realize that 0:14:00.320 --> 0:14:02.199 it was a mirror, that it was bigger than just 0:14:02.240 --> 0:14:03.439 these tabolic magazines. 0:14:03.840 --> 0:14:06.160 I think I always knew that because my parents were 0:14:06.240 --> 0:14:09.480 very strict about not letting me consume pop culture, like 0:14:09.600 --> 0:14:12.360 it was always this thing I had to sneak in, 0:14:12.600 --> 0:14:15.120 Like they didn't like me watching television. My parents are 0:14:15.280 --> 0:14:18.040 deeply con togoss on. My father's like a pasta, So 0:14:18.120 --> 0:14:20.240 there was no second of music. This was a thing 0:14:20.320 --> 0:14:23.640 that don't touch It's the bidden it's of the world. 0:14:24.040 --> 0:14:26.560 But when I go to school, people were talking about 0:14:26.840 --> 0:14:29.480 what they watched, what they read, what they were listening to, 0:14:29.640 --> 0:14:31.520 and their parents are just like normal, like you can 0:14:31.640 --> 0:14:34.160 listen to the radio, right, So I was kind of 0:14:34.240 --> 0:14:37.680 consuming pop culture by like kind of osmosis a lot 0:14:37.840 --> 0:14:39.720 as a child. As a teenager, I had a lot 0:14:39.800 --> 0:14:41.840 more three dam So I always knew it was like 0:14:42.160 --> 0:14:44.640 really important and it was reflective of how people felt 0:14:44.680 --> 0:14:47.400 of the world, and it was performing how they felt 0:14:47.560 --> 0:14:49.760 about the world too. But I can't think of a 0:14:49.840 --> 0:14:52.800 specific moment where I'm like, it's pop culture. I think 0:14:52.840 --> 0:14:54.400 I always intuited this. 0:14:55.040 --> 0:14:58.000 That's really interesting. Yeah, when did you realize your voice? 0:14:58.440 --> 0:15:01.480 Most people it's a big question, But was there like 0:15:01.560 --> 0:15:03.760 a piece that you put out that you thought, oh, 0:15:03.880 --> 0:15:04.760 this movie The Needle. 0:15:05.440 --> 0:15:08.360 I think it was my early days on Twitter, which 0:15:08.360 --> 0:15:11.560 I'm not on anymore, but I would often go viral 0:15:11.880 --> 0:15:15.240 or it was like the fascist Healthscape. I would often 0:15:15.320 --> 0:15:18.360 go yeah, just a week clear, but I go viral 0:15:19.080 --> 0:15:21.880 for saying things that I would just say to my 0:15:22.080 --> 0:15:24.680 friends and in my life, and I just tweet what 0:15:24.760 --> 0:15:27.680 I'm saying, and I was like, Oh, I'm resonating with people. 0:15:27.720 --> 0:15:28.480 That's what I felt like. 0:15:28.520 --> 0:15:31.120 I felt like I say things that people can relate 0:15:31.200 --> 0:15:33.080 to and expressing ideas. 0:15:33.320 --> 0:15:35.320 You know, I must have felt so good. Yeah. 0:15:35.320 --> 0:15:36.680 No, I've always kept. 0:15:36.480 --> 0:15:39.240 A distance from it because I had this inherent mistrusted 0:15:39.280 --> 0:15:42.080 of people. To go viral to be liked or people 0:15:42.360 --> 0:15:44.680 to respond to your voice doesn't necessarily mean that you're 0:15:44.720 --> 0:15:48.040 contributing anything good to the conversation. I think like typically 0:15:48.040 --> 0:15:50.800 actually means you're probably a bit of a maniac, right, 0:15:50.960 --> 0:15:55.440 Like the people we've platformed, especially in modern society, whether 0:15:55.440 --> 0:15:58.840 it's politically and culture and fashion, they tend to be 0:15:58.920 --> 0:16:02.480 the most like outrageous people. So about imperent skill or value, 0:16:02.520 --> 0:16:05.200 it's just that you've made somebody feel something. It doesn't 0:16:05.200 --> 0:16:08.160 mean that you've contributed something good to the world. So 0:16:08.160 --> 0:16:11.000 I've never seen that viral moment as being like, oh, 0:16:11.360 --> 0:16:15.040 this feels good. Sometimes I interrogate, like, why are they're responding? 0:16:15.200 --> 0:16:16.880 Is it because I feel like put something good at 0:16:16.880 --> 0:16:18.560 into the world? And that's like kind of the litmus 0:16:18.680 --> 0:16:19.400 test for me. 0:16:19.920 --> 0:16:24.200 Absolutely, I think that's a really traditional journalistic lens to 0:16:24.440 --> 0:16:26.920 like remove yourself from the equation. I listened to a 0:16:27.000 --> 0:16:30.119 podcast about how back in the day, all the journalists 0:16:30.640 --> 0:16:33.640 were paid thirty forty thousand dollars and so they were 0:16:33.680 --> 0:16:37.040 making a living, but they were not of the upper class. 0:16:37.320 --> 0:16:40.200 And now a lot of journalists are mixing and mingling 0:16:40.760 --> 0:16:44.120 with the people they're writing about and changed the stratosphere. 0:16:44.280 --> 0:16:45.840 Yeah for sure, like they. 0:16:45.800 --> 0:16:47.120 Don't want to write about their friends. 0:16:47.400 --> 0:16:47.920 Yeah, I know. 0:16:48.080 --> 0:16:51.040 And it's just like that kind of access sometimes, I 0:16:51.080 --> 0:16:55.440 don't know the spoils of it can Sully your actual work. 0:16:55.720 --> 0:16:58.920 Is there a recent pop culture moment that made you 0:16:59.080 --> 0:17:01.880 feel like, oh, this says everything about the moment that 0:17:02.000 --> 0:17:02.800 we are in right now. 0:17:03.160 --> 0:17:08.680 I think that the DD verdict the sentence being a 0:17:08.840 --> 0:17:13.560 lot less than what people anticipating, and just the response 0:17:13.680 --> 0:17:15.679 to it and the spectacle of that trial. 0:17:15.880 --> 0:17:18.440 I think it's like the definitive story in the way 0:17:18.640 --> 0:17:19.360 i'd say more. 0:17:20.080 --> 0:17:23.840 Yeah, I think because there was the expectation that he 0:17:23.960 --> 0:17:26.640 would be found guilty on all accounts and he would 0:17:27.040 --> 0:17:29.280 never see the light of day again. I didn't think 0:17:29.320 --> 0:17:31.120 that speaking to me, but I was like, I topt 0:17:31.200 --> 0:17:33.480 him to get off on everything, but I think he 0:17:33.560 --> 0:17:36.760 went down on like the prostitution charges and we've got 0:17:36.800 --> 0:17:39.840 a fifty months sentence, which is very leniar and given 0:17:39.960 --> 0:17:42.760 everything happening. But I was like, we are in a 0:17:42.840 --> 0:17:45.960 world where like powerful and rich people can get away 0:17:46.000 --> 0:17:48.960 with things and the public is kind of on their side. 0:17:49.320 --> 0:17:52.000 Like people were shocked that you know, you saw the 0:17:52.080 --> 0:17:54.680 video of him and Cassion. You watched this trial, and 0:17:55.119 --> 0:17:57.479 now the documentary is coming out, You've seeing the feelings 0:17:57.520 --> 0:17:59.440 of jurors and the general public. There's a lot of 0:17:59.440 --> 0:18:01.680 people that are like, it's not illegal to be a 0:18:01.720 --> 0:18:03.760 free That's what they've taken from this trial. And I 0:18:03.840 --> 0:18:09.320 think it's so emblematic about these problematic men who verge 0:18:09.480 --> 0:18:10.480 on criminality. 0:18:10.560 --> 0:18:12.840 You sometimes are criminals who are still our. 0:18:12.840 --> 0:18:15.359 Kind of kings, are cultural kings, and we're willing to 0:18:15.400 --> 0:18:17.919 forgive them for anything. And I think that's the story 0:18:18.000 --> 0:18:20.960 of like maybe the last five to ten years of 0:18:21.080 --> 0:18:23.479 like we like our men broken, and we like them 0:18:23.640 --> 0:18:25.439 all our criminal and we. 0:18:25.640 --> 0:18:27.440 Allow them to haul us. And so I think the 0:18:27.520 --> 0:18:31.320 Diggy trial was that in a nutshell from a culture. 0:18:31.000 --> 0:18:34.000 Perspective, when you say five to ten years, what do 0:18:34.040 --> 0:18:35.160 you think fifted? 0:18:35.200 --> 0:18:35.240 It? 0:18:35.359 --> 0:18:35.399 Was? 0:18:35.440 --> 0:18:36.440