1 00:00:05,240 --> 00:00:07,600 Speaker 1: This is Emily and this is Bridget and you're listening 2 00:00:07,640 --> 00:00:21,160 Speaker 1: to stuff Mom never told you. Today, we're tackling a 3 00:00:21,239 --> 00:00:24,400 Speaker 1: topic by popular demand that B and I were mentioning 4 00:00:24,560 --> 00:00:28,760 Speaker 1: on a couple episodes in the past, and which we said, Hey, 5 00:00:29,400 --> 00:00:32,720 Speaker 1: let us know if y'all would appreciate an episode solely 6 00:00:33,080 --> 00:00:39,479 Speaker 1: dedicated to intersectional feminism, and Twitter was kind enough to 7 00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:42,040 Speaker 1: let us know that the answer was a resounding yes. 8 00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:45,400 Speaker 1: So thank you to everybody on Instagram and on the 9 00:00:45,440 --> 00:00:49,040 Speaker 1: Twitter sphere who makes their voice heard, We hear you. 10 00:00:49,560 --> 00:00:51,920 Speaker 1: And as much as I think I don't know about 11 00:00:51,960 --> 00:00:54,320 Speaker 1: you be, but I think we try to bring an 12 00:00:54,320 --> 00:00:58,680 Speaker 1: intersectional feminist approach to basically every topic we tackle. I mean, 13 00:00:58,720 --> 00:01:02,000 Speaker 1: I think I try to bring one to my life. 14 00:01:02,200 --> 00:01:05,640 Speaker 1: I live life exactly and that does not stop when 15 00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:09,200 Speaker 1: we walk into the studio here. Um. But it's so 16 00:01:09,240 --> 00:01:12,480 Speaker 1: this is almost like a meta episode in terms of 17 00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:17,280 Speaker 1: naming and claiming and making clear not just how we 18 00:01:17,319 --> 00:01:20,360 Speaker 1: try to live true to that framework, but also the 19 00:01:20,440 --> 00:01:25,000 Speaker 1: history of why that's so important. Um. Anything you want 20 00:01:25,000 --> 00:01:27,600 Speaker 1: to add as we set this conversation up, Yeah, I 21 00:01:27,640 --> 00:01:30,200 Speaker 1: mean I think that these are tough topics that will 22 00:01:30,200 --> 00:01:33,399 Speaker 1: tackle further along in today's episode, But just to make 23 00:01:33,400 --> 00:01:35,679 Speaker 1: it clear, I think that a lot of times people 24 00:01:36,360 --> 00:01:39,720 Speaker 1: assume that when we talk about living intersectional living our 25 00:01:39,840 --> 00:01:42,480 Speaker 1: values as intersectional people, that we're talking about how to 26 00:01:42,480 --> 00:01:45,080 Speaker 1: be nice on Twitter or I do not you know, 27 00:01:45,600 --> 00:01:47,360 Speaker 1: be a jerk, and that is part of it. But 28 00:01:47,760 --> 00:01:51,680 Speaker 1: these issues are are people's livelihoods, you know. Um, I 29 00:01:51,720 --> 00:01:54,520 Speaker 1: really have no choice to not live an intersectional life 30 00:01:54,520 --> 00:01:58,240 Speaker 1: because I'm an intersectional person. Um. And I think living 31 00:01:58,240 --> 00:02:02,200 Speaker 1: at those intersections can be thorny and difficult, and recognizing 32 00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:04,200 Speaker 1: them can be thorny and difficult. And I just think 33 00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:06,920 Speaker 1: it's very important. It's important that we challenge ourselves to 34 00:02:06,920 --> 00:02:09,720 Speaker 1: get it right. It's important that we understand how to 35 00:02:09,760 --> 00:02:12,240 Speaker 1: get better and all of that. Yeah, And I feel 36 00:02:12,240 --> 00:02:16,560 Speaker 1: like it's one of those buzzwords in the political world 37 00:02:16,680 --> 00:02:20,079 Speaker 1: and in the feminist space and just in I think 38 00:02:20,120 --> 00:02:23,680 Speaker 1: social media in general. Definitely. You know, the term intersectional 39 00:02:23,720 --> 00:02:26,560 Speaker 1: or intersectionality has been tossed around so much, and yet 40 00:02:26,720 --> 00:02:30,840 Speaker 1: it's very hard to understand. Like a lot of um, 41 00:02:31,080 --> 00:02:34,360 Speaker 1: woke news oriented people that I know are like, what 42 00:02:34,480 --> 00:02:37,600 Speaker 1: is that? What is the intersectional feminism? So should we 43 00:02:37,639 --> 00:02:41,480 Speaker 1: just define our terms like a good breakdown cool. So 44 00:02:42,639 --> 00:02:46,840 Speaker 1: this is so. Intersectionality is a term that was coined 45 00:02:46,840 --> 00:02:52,200 Speaker 1: by American professor Kimberly Crenshaw in nine, but the concept 46 00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:57,480 Speaker 1: existed far far longer than um. Crenshaw gave us a 47 00:02:57,520 --> 00:03:03,400 Speaker 1: good word intersectionality to describe the textbook definition here, which 48 00:03:03,480 --> 00:03:09,040 Speaker 1: is the view that women experience oppression in varying configurations 49 00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:13,960 Speaker 1: and in varying degrees of intensity. Cultural patterns of oppression 50 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:17,920 Speaker 1: are not only inter related, but are bound together and 51 00:03:18,040 --> 00:03:22,480 Speaker 1: influenced by the intersectional systems of society. Examples of this 52 00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:26,680 Speaker 1: include race, gender, class ability, and ethnicity. And that list 53 00:03:26,720 --> 00:03:30,799 Speaker 1: goes on much longer, and on and on. There's a 54 00:03:30,919 --> 00:03:34,160 Speaker 1: mean think about the intersections that we occupy in our lives, 55 00:03:34,200 --> 00:03:36,120 Speaker 1: and you know, there's so many of them. So that 56 00:03:36,200 --> 00:03:39,760 Speaker 1: list is and you said, you sort of identified at 57 00:03:39,800 --> 00:03:43,080 Speaker 1: the top, I'm an intersectional person. What are the intersections 58 00:03:43,160 --> 00:03:45,680 Speaker 1: that you sort of identify as living as So I 59 00:03:45,680 --> 00:03:48,040 Speaker 1: would say some of my the intersections that are the 60 00:03:48,080 --> 00:03:51,440 Speaker 1: most prominent in my life or being a black queer woman. Um, 61 00:03:51,480 --> 00:03:54,160 Speaker 1: there's a really great book on feminism called All the 62 00:03:54,200 --> 00:03:58,600 Speaker 1: Women Are White, All the Men Are Black, and that 63 00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:00,760 Speaker 1: that title just really umbed up how I lived a 64 00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:02,440 Speaker 1: lot of my life thinking that I have to either 65 00:04:02,480 --> 00:04:04,840 Speaker 1: be one or the other. If we're talking about black folks, 66 00:04:05,080 --> 00:04:06,960 Speaker 1: I'm in that bucket, but it's not black women. If 67 00:04:06,960 --> 00:04:09,200 Speaker 1: we're talking about women, we're talking about white women, and 68 00:04:09,240 --> 00:04:11,360 Speaker 1: I'm in that bucket. But kind of and so not really, 69 00:04:12,200 --> 00:04:15,520 Speaker 1: not really being able to occupy my actual intersections has 70 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:18,200 Speaker 1: been difficult in my life. It's like living on the 71 00:04:18,240 --> 00:04:21,960 Speaker 1: periphery exactly on both those categories. Well, first of all, 72 00:04:21,960 --> 00:04:23,920 Speaker 1: thank you for sharing that. I kind of pre share 73 00:04:23,920 --> 00:04:26,919 Speaker 1: on the spot there. Um, and I feel like we 74 00:04:26,960 --> 00:04:30,479 Speaker 1: haven't we haven't heard from you on the identity around 75 00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:34,120 Speaker 1: identifying as a queer woman. What is that, mabe. I mean, 76 00:04:34,160 --> 00:04:37,159 Speaker 1: just if you want to share, I'm like curious, Like, yeah, 77 00:04:37,160 --> 00:04:38,880 Speaker 1: it's not something I thought. I mean, I'm I'm not, 78 00:04:38,960 --> 00:04:42,000 Speaker 1: It's not something I'm purposely hiding. It's just not something 79 00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:44,920 Speaker 1: I talk about often. Um. I think it's complicated, and 80 00:04:44,920 --> 00:04:46,279 Speaker 1: I think that this is something that we should talk 81 00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:49,200 Speaker 1: about on the show. But I think that when you 82 00:04:49,240 --> 00:04:53,159 Speaker 1: are a woman who does not identify as heterosexual, it 83 00:04:53,200 --> 00:04:55,760 Speaker 1: can be tough to know how much space to occupy 84 00:04:55,839 --> 00:04:59,680 Speaker 1: because I have been in relationships with men, and I 85 00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:02,320 Speaker 1: know the that gives you a kind of privilege, and 86 00:05:02,360 --> 00:05:03,920 Speaker 1: I don't want to be the person that's like raw 87 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:06,520 Speaker 1: ra queer identity when there are people who don't have 88 00:05:06,560 --> 00:05:08,760 Speaker 1: the level of privilege that I have, as as being 89 00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:11,200 Speaker 1: someone who has been in relationships with when women, men 90 00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:16,800 Speaker 1: and non binary folks makes sense, Yeah, awesome, Damn, we're 91 00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:20,960 Speaker 1: gonna have to do a whole up. I love it, um. 92 00:05:21,000 --> 00:05:24,800 Speaker 1: And I think sexual fluidity too, I mean, the fluidity 93 00:05:24,839 --> 00:05:27,799 Speaker 1: of around sexuality and general identity right now is so 94 00:05:28,680 --> 00:05:31,120 Speaker 1: wild and like in I say that in the best 95 00:05:31,160 --> 00:05:34,159 Speaker 1: possible way. Um, Like those walls are just crashing down 96 00:05:34,200 --> 00:05:37,279 Speaker 1: in a cool way. They are, and it's it's weird. Um. 97 00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:40,160 Speaker 1: I know that people talk a lot about things like 98 00:05:40,279 --> 00:05:44,640 Speaker 1: by erasure, where yes, bisexual women feel as though they 99 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:48,720 Speaker 1: really can't lift their issues and I definitely have felt that. Um. 100 00:05:48,760 --> 00:05:52,320 Speaker 1: And it's it's complicated, it's a complex issue. Um. Yeah, 101 00:05:52,360 --> 00:05:54,839 Speaker 1: I don't have the answer. Well, I think it's a 102 00:05:54,880 --> 00:06:00,000 Speaker 1: perfect illustration of what it feels like to not identify 103 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:03,720 Speaker 1: fire or not not be represented. I think that's really 104 00:06:03,720 --> 00:06:08,400 Speaker 1: why intersectionality is so important. It's making the intent right, 105 00:06:08,560 --> 00:06:13,960 Speaker 1: making the effort to be radically inclusive, and by radically 106 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:19,160 Speaker 1: I mean consistently across the board, acknowledging that we have 107 00:06:19,279 --> 00:06:23,960 Speaker 1: different privileges, that we all have different experiences, and that 108 00:06:23,960 --> 00:06:30,000 Speaker 1: that difference doesn't threaten our unity right exactly, um I, 109 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:31,400 Speaker 1: I mean this doesn't make me sound like a very 110 00:06:31,400 --> 00:06:34,279 Speaker 1: good feminist, but I had to learn that. Um. I 111 00:06:34,360 --> 00:06:36,760 Speaker 1: was sending a conversation with my cousin over the weekend 112 00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:39,200 Speaker 1: where we were talking about trans women, and there was 113 00:06:39,240 --> 00:06:41,400 Speaker 1: a there's been a you know, a whole thing about this, 114 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:45,240 Speaker 1: and I realized within myself something kind of bad, which 115 00:06:45,279 --> 00:06:48,560 Speaker 1: is that I, in my mind, I know what it 116 00:06:48,600 --> 00:06:51,400 Speaker 1: looks like. We've had a girlhood, right. A girlhood is 117 00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:53,320 Speaker 1: what it feels like to get your first period. A 118 00:06:53,320 --> 00:06:55,080 Speaker 1: girlhood is when you get cat called for the first time. 119 00:06:55,120 --> 00:06:58,760 Speaker 1: I understood what that meant, and I was very if 120 00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:01,680 Speaker 1: someone threatened what that meant to me. I felt that 121 00:07:01,720 --> 00:07:03,480 Speaker 1: to be very threatening, and it took me a long 122 00:07:03,560 --> 00:07:07,000 Speaker 1: time to realize trans women their girlhood is just as 123 00:07:07,080 --> 00:07:09,240 Speaker 1: valid as what I understood my own girlhood to be. 124 00:07:09,440 --> 00:07:12,240 Speaker 1: So I really took me a while to get that 125 00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:16,400 Speaker 1: where I realized, oh, the kind of girlhood that you know, 126 00:07:16,520 --> 00:07:18,720 Speaker 1: a woman who is not like myself, whether they're a 127 00:07:18,760 --> 00:07:21,840 Speaker 1: trans woman, whether they're a poor woman, whether they're uh 128 00:07:22,080 --> 00:07:25,160 Speaker 1: differently abled woman. Just because our girlhoods were not the 129 00:07:25,200 --> 00:07:27,800 Speaker 1: same doesn't make mind valid and there's not valid. And 130 00:07:28,120 --> 00:07:29,760 Speaker 1: I had to learn that I was. I was a 131 00:07:30,640 --> 00:07:34,120 Speaker 1: bad feminist and I didn't acknowledge. I disagree because I 132 00:07:34,160 --> 00:07:37,560 Speaker 1: think we all had to learn this. Who's born being 133 00:07:37,600 --> 00:07:42,119 Speaker 1: a perfect intersectional feminist? Not me, zero, people like zero. 134 00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:46,760 Speaker 1: Maybe really I don't think so, even I feel like 135 00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:50,760 Speaker 1: we we should acknowledge that there's a spectrum of learning 136 00:07:50,840 --> 00:07:53,240 Speaker 1: and bring a bring what is really called a growth 137 00:07:53,280 --> 00:07:56,920 Speaker 1: mindset to this, which is everyone can get better at this. 138 00:07:57,320 --> 00:07:59,280 Speaker 1: No one is born with or without the skill to 139 00:07:59,320 --> 00:08:02,320 Speaker 1: be intersection all and it is a learned habit, a 140 00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:04,800 Speaker 1: learned sort of perspective. So we should have well, I 141 00:08:04,880 --> 00:08:07,880 Speaker 1: have compassion for you, and we should all have compassion 142 00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:11,680 Speaker 1: with ourselves because we're ever evolving, and the minute you 143 00:08:11,720 --> 00:08:15,040 Speaker 1: think you're perfectly evolved, someone on Twitter will remind you 144 00:08:15,040 --> 00:08:18,119 Speaker 1: you're not. The universe has ways of knocking you down. 145 00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:22,240 Speaker 1: I definitely have I mean polish polishing you. Yes, I 146 00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:24,840 Speaker 1: got to a place where I thought I was a 147 00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:28,480 Speaker 1: little miswoke, right, Like people were people in the progressive 148 00:08:28,520 --> 00:08:31,160 Speaker 1: space were coming to me, like important people to ask 149 00:08:31,200 --> 00:08:34,000 Speaker 1: me my opinions around diversity and inclusion, the blah blah blah, 150 00:08:34,040 --> 00:08:36,520 Speaker 1: and I was feeling really good about it. And then 151 00:08:36,800 --> 00:08:38,880 Speaker 1: those are the moments where you say something or do 152 00:08:38,960 --> 00:08:41,640 Speaker 1: something or forget something or and then it's like the 153 00:08:41,760 --> 00:08:46,680 Speaker 1: universe is reminding you, hey, we're ever evolving, stay humble, 154 00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:49,200 Speaker 1: don't think that you're you know yeah. And so that's 155 00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:52,560 Speaker 1: been really helpful for me. I I take pride in 156 00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:56,520 Speaker 1: owning that I am, you know, imperfect, and owning that 157 00:08:56,600 --> 00:09:00,200 Speaker 1: I that, like everyone else, I have waste took row 158 00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:01,920 Speaker 1: and I appreciate and people call me out on it 159 00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:04,719 Speaker 1: and or call me in on it. Really can you know, 160 00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:09,480 Speaker 1: it's hard, it's hard, but it's so important. It's so important. 161 00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:12,719 Speaker 1: I totally agree. And I think all people want is 162 00:09:12,800 --> 00:09:14,719 Speaker 1: to know that you're being real with them. I've been 163 00:09:14,720 --> 00:09:18,320 Speaker 1: on the stage of a you know, opening keynote for 164 00:09:18,400 --> 00:09:21,960 Speaker 1: a conference on gender inclusivity, and and I have to 165 00:09:22,040 --> 00:09:25,160 Speaker 1: own my white privilege, like pretty vocally. I think that's 166 00:09:25,160 --> 00:09:26,839 Speaker 1: the best way to do is check your privilege in 167 00:09:26,880 --> 00:09:29,120 Speaker 1: a very public way and say, listen, I know I'm 168 00:09:29,160 --> 00:09:32,520 Speaker 1: like this white woman up here talking about race and 169 00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:36,120 Speaker 1: gender and intersection and you know, I'm asking you the 170 00:09:36,200 --> 00:09:40,480 Speaker 1: audience to be participatory and hold me accountable, and that 171 00:09:40,520 --> 00:09:44,680 Speaker 1: has invited, you know, some very welcome critique. In real 172 00:09:44,720 --> 00:09:48,840 Speaker 1: time as I'm delivering, are people screaming from the stage like, hey, 173 00:09:48,960 --> 00:09:53,319 Speaker 1: remember you forgot about I know, I like rolled out 174 00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:55,280 Speaker 1: the red carpet for a cat for a nut, cat 175 00:09:55,320 --> 00:09:58,640 Speaker 1: calling for for calling out. Well, I just remember being 176 00:09:58,760 --> 00:10:02,400 Speaker 1: corrected or pushed by an audience member more than once, 177 00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:06,520 Speaker 1: but one in particular on how racial battle fatigue impacts 178 00:10:06,880 --> 00:10:10,040 Speaker 1: burnout just something to talk about a lot. And I 179 00:10:10,080 --> 00:10:11,800 Speaker 1: said to her, that was such a good point. I 180 00:10:11,840 --> 00:10:13,560 Speaker 1: don't have a good answer for you right now. Thank 181 00:10:13,559 --> 00:10:15,199 Speaker 1: you so much for making me think about this. I'm 182 00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:17,400 Speaker 1: going to integrate this into all my keynotes moving forward, 183 00:10:17,440 --> 00:10:20,920 Speaker 1: and I have so you know, see the episode called 184 00:10:20,960 --> 00:10:25,319 Speaker 1: work Fails for more insights on how to stumble gracefully 185 00:10:25,600 --> 00:10:28,080 Speaker 1: and wokefully. I don't know how else to describe it, 186 00:10:28,080 --> 00:10:30,840 Speaker 1: but part of intersectionality is acknowledging that we're all on 187 00:10:30,880 --> 00:10:35,480 Speaker 1: a progression here and the importance to me, at least, 188 00:10:35,520 --> 00:10:39,719 Speaker 1: I think is intent. The intent to be inclusive can 189 00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:42,800 Speaker 1: go a very long way in a movement like feminism 190 00:10:42,840 --> 00:10:48,920 Speaker 1: that is rooted historically in injustice and and I think 191 00:10:48,920 --> 00:10:51,680 Speaker 1: it's fair to say you just flat out racism, um, 192 00:10:51,720 --> 00:10:56,400 Speaker 1: but really not acknowledging or or what is it called 193 00:10:56,440 --> 00:10:59,920 Speaker 1: not not taking seriously the critiques of women who live 194 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:02,959 Speaker 1: at those intersections of every single day. Definitely. I remember 195 00:11:02,960 --> 00:11:06,400 Speaker 1: when I was organizing trainings for the progressive community, again 196 00:11:06,480 --> 00:11:09,079 Speaker 1: thinking I was little miswoke doing everything right. I think 197 00:11:09,080 --> 00:11:13,439 Speaker 1: there should be a sash that says likes and that 198 00:11:13,480 --> 00:11:15,960 Speaker 1: should be a pageant. And I wouldn't totally go to that. 199 00:11:16,920 --> 00:11:20,840 Speaker 1: That's a good idea, um. But yeah, I was organizing 200 00:11:20,840 --> 00:11:22,480 Speaker 1: a training and I thought, you know, we had this 201 00:11:22,520 --> 00:11:25,120 Speaker 1: great inclusive space blah blah blah, and we had a 202 00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:29,000 Speaker 1: happy hour. Afterward, someone pulled me aside and said, I 203 00:11:29,040 --> 00:11:31,240 Speaker 1: can't get into this. It's at a bar. I am, 204 00:11:31,280 --> 00:11:33,920 Speaker 1: I'm documented, I don't have I D so I have 205 00:11:34,040 --> 00:11:37,360 Speaker 1: to go home. And I thought, crap, I didn't even 206 00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:41,320 Speaker 1: that didn't occur to me, you know, I'm it was 207 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:44,120 Speaker 1: just a complete blind spot. Um. And had this person 208 00:11:44,160 --> 00:11:46,120 Speaker 1: I said something, it would it would have continued to 209 00:11:46,160 --> 00:11:47,880 Speaker 1: be a blind spot. So I'm so thankful that that 210 00:11:47,920 --> 00:11:51,520 Speaker 1: person felt, you know, I felt that they could come 211 00:11:51,559 --> 00:11:53,840 Speaker 1: talk to me about it. I think the same thing 212 00:11:53,960 --> 00:11:58,040 Speaker 1: we said for many events held by the most woke 213 00:11:58,120 --> 00:12:02,000 Speaker 1: of people that are not accessible for those who are 214 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:05,640 Speaker 1: differently abled to I actually give a little holler out 215 00:12:05,640 --> 00:12:07,960 Speaker 1: on social media this morning before we came into the 216 00:12:08,120 --> 00:12:11,959 Speaker 1: recording studio to ask folks who already fans of the show, 217 00:12:12,520 --> 00:12:14,079 Speaker 1: what do what does this word mean to you? What 218 00:12:14,160 --> 00:12:18,200 Speaker 1: does intersectionality mean to you? And one woman wrote us saying, listen, 219 00:12:18,720 --> 00:12:20,520 Speaker 1: you know the thing that I find is so often 220 00:12:20,600 --> 00:12:25,959 Speaker 1: forgotten is how differing abilities right, being differently abled or 221 00:12:26,040 --> 00:12:31,439 Speaker 1: able bodied UM, is so often ignored as this silent 222 00:12:31,520 --> 00:12:35,600 Speaker 1: privilege that many of us currently have. Definitely UM. Honestly, 223 00:12:35,640 --> 00:12:37,520 Speaker 1: on the show, we did an episode around we talk 224 00:12:37,559 --> 00:12:41,040 Speaker 1: a lot about protests and things like that, and in 225 00:12:41,080 --> 00:12:43,000 Speaker 1: an episode we talked about how folks should be going 226 00:12:43,040 --> 00:12:45,520 Speaker 1: to protest and all of that right, and I totally 227 00:12:45,559 --> 00:12:47,439 Speaker 1: neglected to And this is completely on me, and I 228 00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:50,280 Speaker 1: work in this sphere, so I can't believe I forgot it, 229 00:12:50,360 --> 00:12:54,680 Speaker 1: But I didn't even acknowledge that folks can't always physically 230 00:12:54,720 --> 00:12:56,679 Speaker 1: go or they have they have a challenge or a 231 00:12:57,160 --> 00:12:58,679 Speaker 1: you know, a need where they can't. It makes it 232 00:12:58,720 --> 00:13:00,760 Speaker 1: difficult to go to these things. And I didn't even 233 00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:02,640 Speaker 1: occur to me to say, you know, you can still 234 00:13:02,679 --> 00:13:04,600 Speaker 1: take action in other ways. You can make calls from 235 00:13:04,640 --> 00:13:07,360 Speaker 1: your house, you can, you know, write an LTE, you 236 00:13:07,400 --> 00:13:12,600 Speaker 1: can letter to the editor, thank you, you can, you know, 237 00:13:13,080 --> 00:13:15,000 Speaker 1: there are plenty of things you can organize a phone 238 00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:17,680 Speaker 1: book or a digital phone bank, all of those things. 239 00:13:17,679 --> 00:13:20,200 Speaker 1: And so I didn't even shout out to that listener 240 00:13:20,280 --> 00:13:22,680 Speaker 1: for bringing that up because I didn't even think to 241 00:13:22,720 --> 00:13:24,960 Speaker 1: mention that. And these are things that I basically traffic 242 00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:27,559 Speaker 1: in professionally. So well, I think that's such a good 243 00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:33,880 Speaker 1: example of including everyone in every single sentence of your 244 00:13:33,920 --> 00:13:37,520 Speaker 1: speech throughout life is impossible. It's impossible. And it's not 245 00:13:38,040 --> 00:13:42,079 Speaker 1: saying that you shouldn't try, but it is. I mean, 246 00:13:42,280 --> 00:13:45,800 Speaker 1: we will stumble, and this will be challenging for for 247 00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:47,880 Speaker 1: our listeners and for us to to live true to 248 00:13:47,960 --> 00:13:50,120 Speaker 1: every single day of our lives. The important thing is 249 00:13:50,120 --> 00:13:51,959 Speaker 1: how we react to being called out. And I have 250 00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:57,440 Speaker 1: seen many of my fellow white folks who present white Um, 251 00:13:57,880 --> 00:14:01,319 Speaker 1: really freak out on that, really stumble of that part, 252 00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:04,800 Speaker 1: and Miley is a perfect episode, Oh Miley Oley That 253 00:14:04,800 --> 00:14:07,199 Speaker 1: episodes a perfect example of listen. It's it's one thing 254 00:14:07,280 --> 00:14:10,199 Speaker 1: to screw up and like culturally appropriate time and time 255 00:14:10,240 --> 00:14:12,760 Speaker 1: and time and time and time and time again, but 256 00:14:12,880 --> 00:14:18,959 Speaker 1: it's a wholly different problem. Two gaslight people and make 257 00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:22,600 Speaker 1: them feel crazy for critiquing you. Yeah, And I also 258 00:14:22,640 --> 00:14:27,120 Speaker 1: think um, having been on both sides, having called people 259 00:14:27,160 --> 00:14:29,480 Speaker 1: in and then called in it said, it's such a 260 00:14:29,560 --> 00:14:30,920 Speaker 1: nice way of saying it. Can you explain with you? 261 00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:33,080 Speaker 1: And so I so I don't like it when people 262 00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:36,080 Speaker 1: say called out because that makes it seem like something 263 00:14:36,120 --> 00:14:39,320 Speaker 1: that is inherently aggressive and bad and you've done something 264 00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:41,040 Speaker 1: wrong and we're all gonna get you in a circle 265 00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:42,600 Speaker 1: and point at you and point at this thing that 266 00:14:42,640 --> 00:14:45,640 Speaker 1: you've done wrong. And I think it triggers this reaction 267 00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:47,880 Speaker 1: on the person who has done the thing that I 268 00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:49,880 Speaker 1: think is not productive. And so I prefer to think 269 00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:52,720 Speaker 1: of it as being called in, where like the person 270 00:14:52,720 --> 00:14:55,120 Speaker 1: who in the story I just told about, the you know, 271 00:14:55,200 --> 00:14:57,920 Speaker 1: undocumented person that was, I thought of that as a 272 00:14:57,960 --> 00:15:00,520 Speaker 1: loving gesture. I'm sure that was not different easy for 273 00:15:00,520 --> 00:15:03,160 Speaker 1: that person to do. And so I think of calling 274 00:15:03,200 --> 00:15:05,600 Speaker 1: people in, you know, in a way that's it's not 275 00:15:05,680 --> 00:15:08,400 Speaker 1: calling them out, it's being like, hey, come back, let's 276 00:15:08,440 --> 00:15:10,560 Speaker 1: let's talk about this, Let's talk through what has happened there, 277 00:15:10,760 --> 00:15:13,520 Speaker 1: in a way that doesn't have to be heavy or 278 00:15:13,920 --> 00:15:15,280 Speaker 1: you know, you know, it doesn't at the end of 279 00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:17,360 Speaker 1: the world, right, and like we all make mistakes, it 280 00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:19,760 Speaker 1: doesn't have to be this earth chattering thing. It can 281 00:15:19,800 --> 00:15:22,400 Speaker 1: be sort of you can think of it. You can 282 00:15:22,480 --> 00:15:24,160 Speaker 1: choose to think of it as a as a as 283 00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:27,120 Speaker 1: a less negative thing. You just blew my mind. Yeah, 284 00:15:27,240 --> 00:15:28,920 Speaker 1: I have a lot to learn from you on that. 285 00:15:29,280 --> 00:15:32,360 Speaker 1: In culture and I call out cultures, I do get 286 00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:36,640 Speaker 1: very defensive. And I feel like this this experience, y'all, 287 00:15:36,680 --> 00:15:40,280 Speaker 1: as as becoming someone behind the mic, has been really 288 00:15:40,360 --> 00:15:43,880 Speaker 1: challenging for me, and in that regard because I pour 289 00:15:44,040 --> 00:15:47,640 Speaker 1: so much of myself into this work that getting called 290 00:15:47,760 --> 00:15:52,520 Speaker 1: in feels like it definitely triggers some defensiveness from me. 291 00:15:53,480 --> 00:15:58,320 Speaker 1: Um in that my intentions are more often than not 292 00:15:58,560 --> 00:16:01,640 Speaker 1: very good that when I get critique, it's it's just 293 00:16:01,680 --> 00:16:05,120 Speaker 1: like it triggers some shame or something or something. It's 294 00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:07,200 Speaker 1: it triggers some defensiveness in me that I've seen in 295 00:16:07,280 --> 00:16:09,920 Speaker 1: other people. That's quite ugly, and I'm sure it's not 296 00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:13,640 Speaker 1: any prettier when I experienced that emotion either. That does 297 00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:17,320 Speaker 1: make me on defend myself. It's natural, and I think 298 00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:19,280 Speaker 1: it took me a long time and being called out 299 00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:21,920 Speaker 1: for some stuff I frankly should have known better, um on. 300 00:16:22,240 --> 00:16:27,800 Speaker 1: But learning how to fight through that feeling, it takes learning. 301 00:16:27,840 --> 00:16:31,200 Speaker 1: It's very uncomfortable. It's very uncomfortable, and learning how to 302 00:16:32,160 --> 00:16:34,560 Speaker 1: not make it about yourself and you're the way that 303 00:16:34,600 --> 00:16:37,640 Speaker 1: you feel and you're in like saying things like oh 304 00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:39,600 Speaker 1: I why didn't mean it? You know, things like that. 305 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:42,960 Speaker 1: It took me a really long time to understand why 306 00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:45,520 Speaker 1: that kind of isn't the best or the most productive 307 00:16:45,560 --> 00:16:47,520 Speaker 1: way to respond. And it took me being called out 308 00:16:47,520 --> 00:16:49,400 Speaker 1: on a lot of stuff, But stuff I'm not bad of. 309 00:16:50,040 --> 00:16:55,000 Speaker 1: You are like champion level empathic, Like you should get 310 00:16:55,040 --> 00:16:57,920 Speaker 1: an empathy award. I feel like they're so good at 311 00:16:58,040 --> 00:17:01,480 Speaker 1: taking other people's perspectives in this amazing way that it's 312 00:17:01,560 --> 00:17:04,320 Speaker 1: quite it's I think it comes from a lot, Yeah, 313 00:17:04,320 --> 00:17:08,639 Speaker 1: it's it's it's therapy. It's listening, it's all of that. Well, 314 00:17:08,680 --> 00:17:11,560 Speaker 1: I think you're awesome, thanks girl. So a great transition 315 00:17:11,560 --> 00:17:13,960 Speaker 1: is sort of talking through this idea of what it 316 00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:16,520 Speaker 1: feels like when someone wants to hold you accountable. And 317 00:17:16,560 --> 00:17:18,840 Speaker 1: I think you mentioned seeing that in a lot of 318 00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:22,360 Speaker 1: your sisters, and I hate to say those ladies, but 319 00:17:22,760 --> 00:17:25,760 Speaker 1: I think we have an issue with that in feminist spaces, 320 00:17:25,800 --> 00:17:27,320 Speaker 1: and I think you know we saw that with the 321 00:17:27,320 --> 00:17:29,359 Speaker 1: Women's March. You see it in a lot of feminist 322 00:17:29,359 --> 00:17:34,159 Speaker 1: spaces where sometimes those spaces can be aggressively white. And 323 00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:35,600 Speaker 1: I think a lot of women of color and a 324 00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:39,240 Speaker 1: lot of women who live at intersections have not historically 325 00:17:39,280 --> 00:17:43,400 Speaker 1: felt like feminist movements have equally lifted us up. For sure. 326 00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:46,800 Speaker 1: So let's let's talk about the history and then let's 327 00:17:46,840 --> 00:17:48,760 Speaker 1: bring it back to the march, because I know you've 328 00:17:48,800 --> 00:17:52,320 Speaker 1: got some awesome experiences to share their Uh. Because Bridget 329 00:17:52,359 --> 00:17:54,360 Speaker 1: was a big part of the march, the Women's March, 330 00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:58,280 Speaker 1: We're not a big part was the central factor that 331 00:17:58,440 --> 00:18:02,280 Speaker 1: made the march possible. That's that's my opinon y'all, just 332 00:18:02,359 --> 00:18:05,040 Speaker 1: kidding that might be not as grounded in research effect 333 00:18:05,080 --> 00:18:10,720 Speaker 1: as the best podcast. We'll tell you all about it. 334 00:18:10,840 --> 00:18:12,919 Speaker 1: I'm in I'm in love with bridget right now. In 335 00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:16,600 Speaker 1: case it's not glaringly obvious. Um like slack jot over here, 336 00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:19,080 Speaker 1: and ah, so I think we should maybe take a 337 00:18:19,160 --> 00:18:29,320 Speaker 1: quick break. We'll be right back. Let's go back. Let's 338 00:18:29,359 --> 00:18:32,200 Speaker 1: go back to the beginning. And there is no true beginning. 339 00:18:32,280 --> 00:18:35,240 Speaker 1: I think we can point to you for the women's movement. 340 00:18:35,280 --> 00:18:39,479 Speaker 1: But anybody who's seen that movie Suffragette, did you see that? 341 00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:43,399 Speaker 1: I did not see that. What's her name, Harry something 342 00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:47,720 Speaker 1: I want to say, Carrie Mulligan um in Suffragette, which 343 00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:52,919 Speaker 1: was a really interesting historical depiction of early industrial era, 344 00:18:53,720 --> 00:18:57,640 Speaker 1: depiction of the feminist uprising in the UK in England 345 00:18:58,080 --> 00:19:01,720 Speaker 1: and the really brutal response from the state, from the government. 346 00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:04,679 Speaker 1: And in that movie, it became very obvious to me 347 00:19:04,800 --> 00:19:10,440 Speaker 1: just how um erased black women were from the suffragette movement. 348 00:19:10,520 --> 00:19:13,240 Speaker 1: And the same could be true in the United States 349 00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:16,560 Speaker 1: right when there were marches of suffragists, and we could 350 00:19:16,600 --> 00:19:19,719 Speaker 1: do a whole episode on this, y'all. So I'm paraphrasing, okay, 351 00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:25,040 Speaker 1: but in these feminist marches, black feminists, if there were 352 00:19:25,080 --> 00:19:28,479 Speaker 1: any brave women who were not exactly felt like not 353 00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:31,720 Speaker 1: exactly welcomed into those marches, were told to march in 354 00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:34,960 Speaker 1: the back. Yeah. I mean there are stories like that 355 00:19:35,119 --> 00:19:39,600 Speaker 1: around major historical feminist movements all throughout history. You know that, 356 00:19:39,720 --> 00:19:43,000 Speaker 1: like lavender Menace. You know, gay women were not exactly 357 00:19:43,040 --> 00:19:46,480 Speaker 1: welcomed into the feminist movement. Like this has been a 358 00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:50,160 Speaker 1: challenge forever, and I think I'm happy that people are 359 00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:52,600 Speaker 1: willing to have these conversations today. But I think it's 360 00:19:52,600 --> 00:19:55,280 Speaker 1: no wonder that folks, you know, I had I had 361 00:19:55,280 --> 00:19:58,480 Speaker 1: a friend who when white women, in order to you know, 362 00:19:58,520 --> 00:20:00,880 Speaker 1: show up at the Women's March, were dressed as as suffragettes. 363 00:20:01,080 --> 00:20:03,280 Speaker 1: I had friends who were saying things who are like 364 00:20:03,320 --> 00:20:06,200 Speaker 1: making fun of that. They thought it was really insensitive. 365 00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:08,400 Speaker 1: It was making a show of how they were leaving 366 00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:11,359 Speaker 1: folks out. Yeah, and I feel that way, but I 367 00:20:11,359 --> 00:20:14,000 Speaker 1: could understand how folks would feel that way. And I mean, 368 00:20:14,080 --> 00:20:16,840 Speaker 1: this is this These sort of divides in the feminist 369 00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:20,280 Speaker 1: movement have been, like you said, throughout history, have come 370 00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:23,560 Speaker 1: up time and time again around single issues. As NPR 371 00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:28,359 Speaker 1: wrote following the Women's March of seventeen, Uh, listen, it 372 00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:30,960 Speaker 1: was that way in the eighteen fifties when some feminists 373 00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:35,199 Speaker 1: split over whether to champion abolition or women's rights. So 374 00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:38,800 Speaker 1: it was a choice between the abolition of slavery or 375 00:20:38,880 --> 00:20:41,840 Speaker 1: women's rights. We couldn't tackle both at one time. And 376 00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:44,280 Speaker 1: that's when sojourn Our Truth gave her famous an I 377 00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:48,400 Speaker 1: a Woman speech at a women's rights conference in Ohio, 378 00:20:48,960 --> 00:20:52,360 Speaker 1: and and pr goes on to elaborate that. Listen, those 379 00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:55,640 Speaker 1: divides still existed in the late sixties and early seventies, 380 00:20:55,680 --> 00:21:00,199 Speaker 1: when quote sisterhood is powerful end quote became a rallying ry, 381 00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:05,560 Speaker 1: but with very few exceptions flow Kennedy, Shirley Chisholm, Eleanor 382 00:21:05,640 --> 00:21:11,120 Speaker 1: Holmes Norton. Here, black and brown sisters were very much 383 00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:14,720 Speaker 1: on the sidelines. So other than those few famous, notable, 384 00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:20,680 Speaker 1: wonderful exceptions, you know, African American women were not always 385 00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:25,560 Speaker 1: welcome into that feminist movement, and writers like Alice Walker 386 00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:29,119 Speaker 1: and Bell Hooks chose instead to refer to themselves as womanist, 387 00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:33,680 Speaker 1: not feminist. They refused to divorce their race from their gender, 388 00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:37,199 Speaker 1: so they were intersectional before intersectionality was a term coined 389 00:21:37,240 --> 00:21:40,960 Speaker 1: by Crenshaw in the eighties. Yeah, I think that's so important, 390 00:21:41,200 --> 00:21:43,600 Speaker 1: um shout out to all of those women because they've 391 00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:46,600 Speaker 1: been so foundational in my understanding of my own feminism 392 00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:50,639 Speaker 1: or slash womanism. Um. And yet you you can't ask 393 00:21:51,359 --> 00:21:55,359 Speaker 1: people to divorce, you know, your gender from your race, 394 00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:57,919 Speaker 1: or your class from your gender, or things like that. 395 00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:00,679 Speaker 1: It doesn't work that way. We are complex packages. When 396 00:22:00,720 --> 00:22:03,919 Speaker 1: I experienced sexism, I'm experienced as a black woman, not 397 00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:06,280 Speaker 1: to se a woman. And also, like what you were 398 00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:09,359 Speaker 1: saying before about black women being at the sidelines, that 399 00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:11,200 Speaker 1: is so true. If so many movements that you would 400 00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:13,600 Speaker 1: hope would be more progressive. You know, black women are 401 00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:16,480 Speaker 1: the backbone, for instance, of the Democratic Party, and yet 402 00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:19,960 Speaker 1: we have struggled to be taken seriously in within the 403 00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:23,239 Speaker 1: party despite the fact that time and time again, Like 404 00:22:23,359 --> 00:22:25,840 Speaker 1: make no mistake, black women are at the backbone of 405 00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:29,600 Speaker 1: the party see Maxine Waters. See the episode on Maxine 406 00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:32,200 Speaker 1: Waters for more on that too. Yeah, it's absolutely true 407 00:22:32,320 --> 00:22:35,159 Speaker 1: see Maxine Water. See Jessica Bird's work trying to make 408 00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:39,120 Speaker 1: the party more inclusive. See folks like Stacy Abrams. Black 409 00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:42,280 Speaker 1: women are are doing the work, they're doing the organizing, 410 00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:44,320 Speaker 1: they're running for office, they're doing all of this, and 411 00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:47,280 Speaker 1: yet we still struggle to be heard well on the 412 00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:50,440 Speaker 1: priority list. Right struggled to be on the priority list. 413 00:22:50,520 --> 00:22:52,240 Speaker 1: And I think that's true for so many women who 414 00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:58,040 Speaker 1: live at intersections of race, class, gender, identity, sexual orientation, ability, nationality, 415 00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:02,040 Speaker 1: you name it, right. When it comes to politics, there's 416 00:23:02,040 --> 00:23:07,640 Speaker 1: a priority list, and rarely throughout history have women who 417 00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:11,200 Speaker 1: live at those intersections have their sort of complaints or 418 00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:14,160 Speaker 1: desires or needs met at the top of that list. 419 00:23:14,760 --> 00:23:21,919 Speaker 1: And frankly, I understand the misguided intent there, because some 420 00:23:21,960 --> 00:23:27,439 Speaker 1: people have seen this as uh, you know, women of color, 421 00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:30,840 Speaker 1: wanting them to not rock the boat, right, so that 422 00:23:30,880 --> 00:23:35,800 Speaker 1: we could pass a wide ranging platform of policies that 423 00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:40,159 Speaker 1: really had the unity of the lowest common denominator, in 424 00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:42,840 Speaker 1: this case, gender right. I can't tell you how many 425 00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:45,920 Speaker 1: times I've heard that, Honestly, probably the time and this 426 00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:48,439 Speaker 1: was like a peak white feminist moment for me. The 427 00:23:48,480 --> 00:23:51,159 Speaker 1: time that I think illustrates that so perfectly was I 428 00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:54,200 Speaker 1: think it was the Academy Awards where Patricia Arcadics want 429 00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:56,840 Speaker 1: an Academy Award Boyhood, and she's brilliant in it. She 430 00:23:56,920 --> 00:24:00,040 Speaker 1: deserved that award. She was great, um and she a 431 00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:03,879 Speaker 1: great speech about women and equal pay and it was 432 00:24:03,960 --> 00:24:06,560 Speaker 1: time has come and we all I remember watching that 433 00:24:06,640 --> 00:24:11,040 Speaker 1: on TV and thinking, yes, girl say it, and then 434 00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:13,480 Speaker 1: I was on this high. I'm feeling so good about 435 00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:16,920 Speaker 1: that moment. They cut to her backstage interview and it 436 00:24:17,080 --> 00:24:20,040 Speaker 1: was some nonsense. It fell apart, it fell apart. Her 437 00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:23,840 Speaker 1: point basically was that white women have fought for equal 438 00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:27,240 Speaker 1: rights for blacks, and now it's time for everyone else 439 00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:30,200 Speaker 1: to get on board and fight for equal rights for them. 440 00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:33,600 Speaker 1: She talked about Obama like we all got behind a 441 00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:37,520 Speaker 1: black man, we all got behind marriage equality. Now it's 442 00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:40,560 Speaker 1: time for all you people. And I think she said 443 00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:43,960 Speaker 1: something really impensive, like a few people to get behind women. 444 00:24:44,240 --> 00:24:47,760 Speaker 1: And that's the thing is, like I understand the rationale, 445 00:24:48,480 --> 00:24:51,920 Speaker 1: I actually understand the thought process that would lead someone 446 00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:56,479 Speaker 1: to saying something like that, but the result is us 447 00:24:56,680 --> 00:24:59,400 Speaker 1: versus them. The result is drawing a division, a line 448 00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:02,000 Speaker 1: of division, saying my needs are more important than your needs, 449 00:25:02,359 --> 00:25:08,440 Speaker 1: and your unique experience somehow threatens our own, it threatens 450 00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:12,480 Speaker 1: our our other shared experience. And that's that's what's so 451 00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:16,640 Speaker 1: troubling to me about this, is like some women's unique 452 00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:21,280 Speaker 1: experiences that we don't share, do not threaten the experiences 453 00:25:21,359 --> 00:25:25,359 Speaker 1: of sexism that we do share. Right, it's not an equal, 454 00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:27,600 Speaker 1: it's not an and or thing, right, and it totally 455 00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:33,200 Speaker 1: erases people who live at intersections, like saying that women 456 00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:36,800 Speaker 1: have fought for gay rights, now it's time for gays 457 00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:39,480 Speaker 1: to fight for women. What about gay women? It just 458 00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:42,840 Speaker 1: doesn't make their existence. Yes, it's totally totally erasism, and 459 00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:46,719 Speaker 1: I think, um, I was so sad. It's like when 460 00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:49,800 Speaker 1: someone gets it so close to being right and then 461 00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:52,480 Speaker 1: it's not. It's a lesson in quitting while you're ahead. 462 00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:56,040 Speaker 1: It's really what it is, like, maybe don't keep talking 463 00:25:56,200 --> 00:25:59,520 Speaker 1: behind the scenes once you've had such a speech that 464 00:26:00,040 --> 00:26:03,600 Speaker 1: probably have like a like a couple of million tweets 465 00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:09,040 Speaker 1: within the seconds that she went from the stage to backstage. 466 00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:12,480 Speaker 1: She was like already making headlines for the next day's newspapers. 467 00:26:12,520 --> 00:26:14,760 Speaker 1: And then she she kind of tanked it. And then 468 00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:17,320 Speaker 1: what happened on the internet immediately was, come on, guys, 469 00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:22,200 Speaker 1: just don't pick on Patricia Arquette. Angry black women said 470 00:26:22,240 --> 00:26:25,199 Speaker 1: a bunch of ignorant white women like, don't don't make 471 00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:26,800 Speaker 1: this into a race thing. Don't make this into a 472 00:26:26,880 --> 00:26:29,720 Speaker 1: gay thing. Which that's that's tail as old as time. 473 00:26:29,760 --> 00:26:32,880 Speaker 1: That's how it always happens that when something like that happens, 474 00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:36,600 Speaker 1: there is a rush to I don't want to say excuse, 475 00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:42,160 Speaker 1: but kind of wash away the intent and wash away 476 00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:45,120 Speaker 1: the impact in a kind of way. And instead of saying, 477 00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:48,440 Speaker 1: let's have a conversation about what just happened, there was 478 00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:50,399 Speaker 1: a lot of voices that did not want to have 479 00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:54,400 Speaker 1: that conversation. It is uncomfortable. I can't understand. And part 480 00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:57,560 Speaker 1: of me almost identifies with in that moment because I'm 481 00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:02,000 Speaker 1: I I could see myself doing something very similar saying 482 00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:06,000 Speaker 1: getting it kind of right, and then because keep going, 483 00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:09,480 Speaker 1: and then really again like extreme empathy right now, like 484 00:27:09,920 --> 00:27:13,000 Speaker 1: this is an amazing skilly you have you know you 485 00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:15,760 Speaker 1: know that. My My guiding expression is what is it? Um? 486 00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:18,800 Speaker 1: They're for the there but for the grace of God. 487 00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:20,640 Speaker 1: Go I When you look at someone having a hard 488 00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:25,080 Speaker 1: time or like doing it so wrong or really messing up, 489 00:27:25,480 --> 00:27:28,200 Speaker 1: that could be any one of us. And I really 490 00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:30,840 Speaker 1: that is something that guides me in the way that 491 00:27:30,880 --> 00:27:33,119 Speaker 1: I think about a lot of issues. Wow, well I 492 00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:35,040 Speaker 1: love that, and I think this would be a good 493 00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:38,399 Speaker 1: time for us all to ponder that further. And we 494 00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:43,080 Speaker 1: are excited to dive into how this sort of historical 495 00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:47,119 Speaker 1: lack of intersectionality is still on display today. And and 496 00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:49,399 Speaker 1: y'all just know that we're going to leave you with 497 00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:53,800 Speaker 1: some sort of strategies and core values to keep in 498 00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:55,720 Speaker 1: mind as you move forward from this week and avoid 499 00:27:55,760 --> 00:27:57,959 Speaker 1: making these mistakes. We're not trying to harp on anybody here, 500 00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:00,200 Speaker 1: We're not trying to tear anybody down. We're just trying 501 00:28:00,240 --> 00:28:04,359 Speaker 1: to illustrate what it looks like to be an open, 502 00:28:04,560 --> 00:28:07,560 Speaker 1: intersectional feminist, and what it looks like and how common 503 00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:11,080 Speaker 1: it is to forget about that and and how destructive 504 00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:14,280 Speaker 1: truly that can be. So I wanted to talk a 505 00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:17,000 Speaker 1: little bit bit about the Women's March here in d C. 506 00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:21,080 Speaker 1: The Women's March occurred a day after Donald Trump took office, 507 00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:27,879 Speaker 1: and it was important to acknowledge the fact here that 508 00:28:28,320 --> 00:28:30,760 Speaker 1: Donald Trump was put in the White House in large 509 00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:36,320 Speaker 1: part because fifty three, I believe, is that right three 510 00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:42,320 Speaker 1: of white women voted him in, and that runs contrary 511 00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:45,440 Speaker 1: to women who live at the intersection of blackness and 512 00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:53,239 Speaker 1: uh womanhood. I believe black women voted h we as 513 00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:56,640 Speaker 1: always we knew what was up like. Nobody voted for 514 00:28:56,920 --> 00:28:59,800 Speaker 1: him less than black women. Black women right pretty pretty 515 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:04,080 Speaker 1: roundly were like nah, and then I'm gonna groundly were 516 00:29:04,160 --> 00:29:08,360 Speaker 1: like nah, I like that. And similarly, seventy of Hispanic 517 00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:11,560 Speaker 1: women voted for Clinton. I guess I've got the number 518 00:29:11,560 --> 00:29:14,680 Speaker 1: here in front of me now of Black women voted 519 00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:19,320 Speaker 1: for Hillary Clinton and women who identify as non white, 520 00:29:19,520 --> 00:29:21,480 Speaker 1: so that I know that's a sort of catch all category, 521 00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:24,440 Speaker 1: shout out to Asian women and Native Native peoples and 522 00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:29,000 Speaker 1: et cetera, and onward. Um of those non white women 523 00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:33,520 Speaker 1: voted for Trump. So the only subset of the women 524 00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:37,600 Speaker 1: population that voted overwhelmingly for Trump was white women. And 525 00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:41,800 Speaker 1: so the Women's March was on the heels of that 526 00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:47,320 Speaker 1: harsh reality to which I love Tina Phays commentary, who said, listen, 527 00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:51,640 Speaker 1: a lot of this election was turned by white college 528 00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:54,600 Speaker 1: educated women who now would like to forget about this 529 00:29:54,640 --> 00:29:58,080 Speaker 1: election and go back to watching HDTV. And then she 530 00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:01,360 Speaker 1: continued to say, you can't look away because it doesn't 531 00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:04,880 Speaker 1: affect you right this minute. It's going to affect you eventually. 532 00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:11,200 Speaker 1: And so there were some seriously harsh and um he 533 00:30:11,360 --> 00:30:14,920 Speaker 1: did commentary leading up to this Women's March. Definitely, I 534 00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:18,640 Speaker 1: think for me. I was in a real weird place 535 00:30:18,840 --> 00:30:21,280 Speaker 1: after the election. UM. I worked on the campaign for 536 00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:24,400 Speaker 1: a while, and we could do a whole episode around 537 00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:27,560 Speaker 1: election night for folks on the campaign because it was 538 00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:31,720 Speaker 1: seems he did before they left. Their last episode was 539 00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:37,040 Speaker 1: very sort of dramatic. I mean it was very traumatized. 540 00:30:37,320 --> 00:30:40,480 Speaker 1: You know. It was an intense time. And so I 541 00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:45,160 Speaker 1: remember after the election going I was in Brooklyn working 542 00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:46,720 Speaker 1: from the headquarters, and I came back to d C 543 00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:50,320 Speaker 1: and I just wasn't ready. I wasn't ready for any 544 00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:52,600 Speaker 1: of this. I wasn't ready for the march. I was 545 00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:55,760 Speaker 1: seeing things on social media that kind of turned my 546 00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:58,720 Speaker 1: stomach a little bit. I was seeing my white friends 547 00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:02,520 Speaker 1: from from different paces in America talking about my white 548 00:31:02,560 --> 00:31:06,720 Speaker 1: female friends talking about um, you know, coming to the march, 549 00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:08,800 Speaker 1: and kind of talking about it as if it was 550 00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:10,800 Speaker 1: a party that they were excited to see their friends 551 00:31:10,840 --> 00:31:13,520 Speaker 1: and excited to wear pink cats and excited for all 552 00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:16,239 Speaker 1: of that. And there's like no shame. I don't want 553 00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:20,960 Speaker 1: to write on anyone's parade, but that felt so alienating 554 00:31:21,000 --> 00:31:22,480 Speaker 1: to me, and I think part of it is living 555 00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:28,880 Speaker 1: in d C. I felt so personally wronged and impacted 556 00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:31,920 Speaker 1: that I just wasn't ready to get up with my 557 00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:35,120 Speaker 1: white sisters and march in the streets. I wasn't ready, 558 00:31:35,480 --> 00:31:36,920 Speaker 1: and so I wrote a blog post about how I 559 00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:40,560 Speaker 1: was feeling, which was just that, like I, I wanted 560 00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:45,400 Speaker 1: to remind white women that for folks at different intersections, 561 00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:48,560 Speaker 1: if you're disabled, if you're black, if you're an immigrant, 562 00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:52,280 Speaker 1: if you are you know, if you live at certain intersections, 563 00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:55,320 Speaker 1: if you're an indigenous woman, your life is about to 564 00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:58,040 Speaker 1: get harder. And it's not funny and it's not cute, 565 00:31:58,080 --> 00:31:59,920 Speaker 1: and it's not an excuse for a party. It's real 566 00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:04,720 Speaker 1: and it's scary and it's tough. And I, I mean, 567 00:32:04,760 --> 00:32:07,560 Speaker 1: I'm remembering how I felt back then. I'm on the 568 00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:11,520 Speaker 1: verge of tears. I felt so alienated at my what 569 00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:14,800 Speaker 1: with my white friends who seemed to think this was 570 00:32:14,840 --> 00:32:16,960 Speaker 1: an excuse to like get a good picture on social media. 571 00:32:17,080 --> 00:32:19,240 Speaker 1: Then protesting, and I'm all of a protest, but I 572 00:32:19,360 --> 00:32:24,200 Speaker 1: just I wasn't there yet. I felt so I wasn't there. 573 00:32:24,720 --> 00:32:27,400 Speaker 1: And UM, a good friend of mine, Angela, People's shout 574 00:32:27,440 --> 00:32:30,360 Speaker 1: out to Angela, UM, I think, formerly of the organization 575 00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:33,760 Speaker 1: Get Equal. UM. She kind of had a had a 576 00:32:34,280 --> 00:32:37,520 Speaker 1: breakthrough moment um. If you saw this viral picture, it's 577 00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:41,520 Speaker 1: her sucking a lollipop at the Women's March in front 578 00:32:41,560 --> 00:32:43,400 Speaker 1: of a group of women, white women who were taking 579 00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:45,840 Speaker 1: selfies in their pink hats, and she's holding a sign 580 00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:48,880 Speaker 1: that says, don't forget white women voted for Trump. And 581 00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:52,320 Speaker 1: that image broke through in a way that I thought 582 00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:55,760 Speaker 1: was really powerful. It went super super megawatt viral, and 583 00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:59,600 Speaker 1: it's now hanging in the National Smithsonian Museum of African 584 00:32:59,640 --> 00:33:02,280 Speaker 1: American History. I think I'm saying that wrong, but in culture, no, 585 00:33:02,480 --> 00:33:05,000 Speaker 1: you got it. Yeah, just and I think it really 586 00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:09,000 Speaker 1: illustrates how a lot of folks at intersections were feeling. 587 00:33:09,680 --> 00:33:14,240 Speaker 1: I think it was. It totally encapsulated the very complex 588 00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:18,480 Speaker 1: feelings that especially women of color had around the Women's March. 589 00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:20,520 Speaker 1: And you were involved with the march. Correct, Yeah, so 590 00:33:20,560 --> 00:33:22,400 Speaker 1: I went on. I don't. I'm it's surprising to me 591 00:33:22,480 --> 00:33:24,400 Speaker 1: that I was hired to do this after I wrote 592 00:33:24,440 --> 00:33:27,600 Speaker 1: this very salty blog post. I tell that we were 593 00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:29,880 Speaker 1: talking about this before the show. I was saying, I 594 00:33:30,000 --> 00:33:31,680 Speaker 1: have would not be surprised if you were brought on 595 00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:36,080 Speaker 1: because you wrote that very compelling and totally justified on 596 00:33:36,280 --> 00:33:39,200 Speaker 1: point blog post which can be read where oh, medium 597 00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:42,200 Speaker 1: dot com um. But yeah, and so I was. I 598 00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:44,120 Speaker 1: worked on the team that was doing social media on 599 00:33:44,160 --> 00:33:46,600 Speaker 1: the day of, and to be honest, it ended up 600 00:33:46,640 --> 00:33:49,600 Speaker 1: being a very, very fulfilling and positive experience for me, 601 00:33:49,760 --> 00:33:55,120 Speaker 1: and I I was happy that I was part of 602 00:33:55,240 --> 00:33:57,200 Speaker 1: the I mean I felt like I was being part 603 00:33:57,240 --> 00:33:59,280 Speaker 1: of history in a kind of way. Um being on 604 00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:03,720 Speaker 1: the ground march, and it was so great seeing all 605 00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:07,480 Speaker 1: the different kinds of folks who showed up, and it 606 00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:10,040 Speaker 1: was I haven't fully processed how powerful it was for me. 607 00:34:10,200 --> 00:34:12,520 Speaker 1: I think being part of it well. I think it 608 00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:18,960 Speaker 1: also was an example of intersectionality in action because you 609 00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:22,040 Speaker 1: really look at the tough conversations that were had on 610 00:34:22,239 --> 00:34:25,919 Speaker 1: that day and beyond. That's part of what getting woke 611 00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:28,560 Speaker 1: is all about. It's part of having angela people's hold 612 00:34:28,640 --> 00:34:33,000 Speaker 1: that sign go viral and have conversations around you know, 613 00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:38,960 Speaker 1: whiteness and feminism and that historical exclusion of women of 614 00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:42,759 Speaker 1: all different backgrounds. And I saw the march organizers go 615 00:34:42,880 --> 00:34:46,279 Speaker 1: to great lengths to not just include women of color, 616 00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:49,360 Speaker 1: but that march was led by women of color, It 617 00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:52,160 Speaker 1: was organized by women of color, by Muslim women like 618 00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:56,280 Speaker 1: Linda Stars, or by women who come from vastly different 619 00:34:56,840 --> 00:35:04,439 Speaker 1: economic backgrounds, class um, gender identity, and um sexual orientation, 620 00:35:05,040 --> 00:35:08,440 Speaker 1: and the the the extent to which those who are 621 00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:12,239 Speaker 1: differently abled were made welcome, and to the extent to 622 00:35:12,239 --> 00:35:15,279 Speaker 1: which accommodations were provided to really make sure that even 623 00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:17,680 Speaker 1: if you couldn't physically be there, you could be there, 624 00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:19,200 Speaker 1: you know what I mean. I think that that that 625 00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:21,279 Speaker 1: was a good example of what it looks like to 626 00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:26,040 Speaker 1: practice intersectionality. Yeah, and just sort of off that, Um, Linda, 627 00:35:26,200 --> 00:35:28,080 Speaker 1: who is If you don't know Linda, she's an amazing 628 00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:31,520 Speaker 1: organizer who I could talk about how powerful she is 629 00:35:31,520 --> 00:35:35,279 Speaker 1: all day. But after the march, folks came for her 630 00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:37,800 Speaker 1: and attacked her on the basis of her religion. And 631 00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:41,680 Speaker 1: so it's very interesting to me, um, how folks who 632 00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:44,840 Speaker 1: wanted to make the Women's March look bad used Linda's 633 00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:47,960 Speaker 1: religion sort have used her intersection to try to attack her. 634 00:35:48,040 --> 00:35:49,520 Speaker 1: And I thought it was very interesting that of all 635 00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:52,719 Speaker 1: of that that happened, and I was proud to see 636 00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:55,040 Speaker 1: so many folks stand stand with her and say, no, 637 00:35:55,239 --> 00:35:57,600 Speaker 1: we're not gonna let you attack our sister. On the 638 00:35:57,640 --> 00:36:00,360 Speaker 1: basis of her religion. That's not gonna happen, um, But 639 00:36:00,440 --> 00:36:03,759 Speaker 1: it's interesting how it just goes to show how those 640 00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:07,439 Speaker 1: intersections are so important and can sort of be used 641 00:36:07,520 --> 00:36:09,920 Speaker 1: against us by people who would want to, you know, 642 00:36:10,680 --> 00:36:13,520 Speaker 1: hurt our movement and hurt us. I think that's a 643 00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:17,520 Speaker 1: great point. It plays on the fear of unity versus diversity, 644 00:36:17,880 --> 00:36:21,320 Speaker 1: and I think that's that the core foundation of intersectional 645 00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:23,879 Speaker 1: feminism is to acknowledge that what makes us different does 646 00:36:23,920 --> 00:36:28,160 Speaker 1: not threaten our unity exactly just like I was saying 647 00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:33,840 Speaker 1: before earlier about trans women, understanding that a trans woman's girlhood, 648 00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:36,480 Speaker 1: even though it's different, might be different than my own, 649 00:36:36,640 --> 00:36:38,879 Speaker 1: understanding that we are not in conflict, and that their 650 00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:42,239 Speaker 1: girlhood being valid does not challenge mind being valid. Understanding 651 00:36:42,320 --> 00:36:43,800 Speaker 1: that was huge for me, and I didn't see that 652 00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:46,520 Speaker 1: for a long time. I think that's such a good example. 653 00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:50,680 Speaker 1: I UM. I've been encouraged since the Women's March to 654 00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:55,279 Speaker 1: see more white women who have large platforms, uh make 655 00:36:55,800 --> 00:37:00,120 Speaker 1: intersectionality a priority and come sort of out for and 656 00:37:00,239 --> 00:37:03,600 Speaker 1: center about how important it is to check your privilege, 657 00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:06,840 Speaker 1: whether it's white privilege or whatever kinds of privilege and 658 00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:12,960 Speaker 1: Glennon Doyle Melton, who is an author and speaker and 659 00:37:14,040 --> 00:37:18,240 Speaker 1: you know has experienced the OPRAH bump at Super Soul Sunday. 660 00:37:18,360 --> 00:37:22,359 Speaker 1: Whatever Oprah's doing to sort of choose the next big 661 00:37:22,480 --> 00:37:26,760 Speaker 1: speakers and pick them uh of a personal development space. 662 00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:30,080 Speaker 1: Glennan was on stage at one of Oprah's events and 663 00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:35,719 Speaker 1: said very bluntly and directly and clearly and so eloquently. Uh. 664 00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:37,919 Speaker 1: You know, in the middle of her speech, she said, listen, 665 00:37:37,960 --> 00:37:39,760 Speaker 1: I have to talk to white women in the audience. 666 00:37:39,840 --> 00:37:43,080 Speaker 1: For a second, everyone was like, oh boy. There was 667 00:37:43,120 --> 00:37:48,280 Speaker 1: an audible, uncomfortable amount of laughter there for a second, 668 00:37:48,880 --> 00:37:51,040 Speaker 1: and we were all crossing our fingers, like, come on, Glennon, 669 00:37:51,640 --> 00:37:53,520 Speaker 1: don't be another white woman putting your foot in the 670 00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:56,880 Speaker 1: mouth like on stage saying something like Patricia Arquette style. 671 00:37:57,280 --> 00:37:59,600 Speaker 1: And so what she said was, and I know I've 672 00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:02,080 Speaker 1: mentioned briefly in another episode, but I just think it's 673 00:38:02,160 --> 00:38:05,560 Speaker 1: really prutinent right now, is quote. I know that many 674 00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:09,120 Speaker 1: of us are feeling alone and ignored and threatened and abused, 675 00:38:09,239 --> 00:38:12,000 Speaker 1: and we're feeling like our bodies are being threatened and 676 00:38:12,080 --> 00:38:15,240 Speaker 1: our children's educations at risk, that we can be grabbed 677 00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:18,400 Speaker 1: at any minute, and that our degradation and our objectification 678 00:38:18,560 --> 00:38:23,400 Speaker 1: and our discrimination has become normalized and accepted in ways 679 00:38:23,480 --> 00:38:26,960 Speaker 1: that are chilling, and that is painful. But what we 680 00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:29,960 Speaker 1: need to remember is that this is just a touch 681 00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:33,719 Speaker 1: of the pain that so many marginalized people in this 682 00:38:33,840 --> 00:38:37,239 Speaker 1: country have been feeling for ages, for black people and 683 00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:40,400 Speaker 1: brown people, and trans people and gay people and muslim 684 00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:43,759 Speaker 1: people and Native Americans and poor people. And she goes 685 00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:47,440 Speaker 1: on to say what sucks is that it took us, 686 00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:51,040 Speaker 1: being personally affected to finally show up. And so she 687 00:38:51,160 --> 00:38:53,400 Speaker 1: basically goes on and says, you can't show up to 688 00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:55,799 Speaker 1: the movement late and decide to make your own organizations 689 00:38:55,880 --> 00:39:00,319 Speaker 1: and lead them, join them, follow women of color, Listen 690 00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:03,200 Speaker 1: to marginalized women. Don't come in here like you've you're 691 00:39:03,239 --> 00:39:06,200 Speaker 1: reinventing the wheel. Don't come into the social justice movement 692 00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:10,239 Speaker 1: as a white woman who's newly woke, ready to you know, 693 00:39:11,160 --> 00:39:13,239 Speaker 1: grab your make your own flag and run with it. 694 00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:16,160 Speaker 1: I get the intent, I get the desire, but we 695 00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:20,000 Speaker 1: have to listen and we have to be historically ah 696 00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:24,320 Speaker 1: know the historical context that we're walking into totally. And 697 00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:28,000 Speaker 1: I think that is that is the key for me 698 00:39:28,160 --> 00:39:32,239 Speaker 1: listening everything that I've ever, everything that I know about 699 00:39:32,280 --> 00:39:34,680 Speaker 1: feminism and intersectional feminism and all of this I've learned 700 00:39:34,680 --> 00:39:37,200 Speaker 1: from listening to other folks who I didn't have any 701 00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:39,239 Speaker 1: of this information myself. And I think listening to the 702 00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:42,520 Speaker 1: stories of folks at these intersections, whether it's you know, 703 00:39:43,160 --> 00:39:47,840 Speaker 1: folks who and and really being clear about, you know, 704 00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:49,600 Speaker 1: the intersections that you're thinking of and the ones that 705 00:39:49,640 --> 00:39:51,279 Speaker 1: you might not be thinking of, and let people tell 706 00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:52,759 Speaker 1: you the ones that you that you might be missing. 707 00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:54,839 Speaker 1: And that has been key for me. And I think 708 00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:57,799 Speaker 1: I love that quote so much because it's just about, yeah, 709 00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:00,719 Speaker 1: don't try to lead if you're not listen, don't try 710 00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:04,160 Speaker 1: to join the party late, and you know, don't Kendall 711 00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:07,240 Speaker 1: jennerary your way into a protest on hand. Everybody pepsi. 712 00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:11,120 Speaker 1: But that's how protests worked, that you just bring your 713 00:40:11,160 --> 00:40:13,759 Speaker 1: pepsi in, yeah, with the fresh iced you know, the 714 00:40:14,040 --> 00:40:17,200 Speaker 1: all the ice and the coolers at every protest. All right, 715 00:40:17,200 --> 00:40:18,759 Speaker 1: shall we take a quick break. It's a quick break. 716 00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:20,200 Speaker 1: I mean, when we come back, we want to talk 717 00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:23,520 Speaker 1: through some quick tips and takeaways for how to proceed 718 00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:26,880 Speaker 1: with an interceptional feminist framework in your life. We'll be 719 00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:37,480 Speaker 1: right back, and we are back. Thank you for hanging 720 00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:40,440 Speaker 1: in there with us with this kind of a tough conversation. 721 00:40:40,520 --> 00:40:44,040 Speaker 1: It's a burly one. It's a big, burly topic, but 722 00:40:44,160 --> 00:40:48,520 Speaker 1: it's kind of indicative of the feminist movement, right. Um, 723 00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:52,960 Speaker 1: So what we wanted to wrap up with y'all is 724 00:40:53,280 --> 00:40:57,000 Speaker 1: some quick tips that we've learned along the way. And 725 00:40:57,080 --> 00:40:59,279 Speaker 1: I'm sure you could add to this list listeners, so 726 00:40:59,400 --> 00:41:02,680 Speaker 1: feel free to add to this conversation on social media please. 727 00:41:02,760 --> 00:41:05,759 Speaker 1: We love hearing from you. But are sort of top 728 00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:10,280 Speaker 1: tips for how to be more intersectional in your approach 729 00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:13,799 Speaker 1: to feminism or in your life and work in general. Um, 730 00:41:13,840 --> 00:41:15,919 Speaker 1: do you want to start it off with that first one? Yeah? 731 00:41:16,160 --> 00:41:17,880 Speaker 1: I think the first one for me is just what 732 00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:20,120 Speaker 1: I was starting to say before we went to break 733 00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:24,160 Speaker 1: was listening. Um, everything I know about how to live 734 00:41:24,160 --> 00:41:26,400 Speaker 1: an intersectional life I learned from someone else, and so 735 00:41:26,840 --> 00:41:30,680 Speaker 1: I think it's so important to listen to people at intersections, 736 00:41:30,760 --> 00:41:34,600 Speaker 1: whether that intersection is rural versus city, whether that intersection 737 00:41:34,760 --> 00:41:38,080 Speaker 1: is you know, college educated versus not, whether that intersection 738 00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:41,600 Speaker 1: is ability. Just listening to the folks at those intersections 739 00:41:41,640 --> 00:41:45,480 Speaker 1: and understanding their experiences and what they're about, and listening 740 00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:49,120 Speaker 1: in terms of what it takes to make them feel included. Right. 741 00:41:49,680 --> 00:41:52,960 Speaker 1: And I think for those of you like me who 742 00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:56,320 Speaker 1: have trouble with interrupting, as we discussed a great length 743 00:41:56,520 --> 00:41:59,440 Speaker 1: in another episode, keep in mind that all that evidence 744 00:41:59,520 --> 00:42:02,800 Speaker 1: shows that women are more likely to be interrupted. We 745 00:42:02,880 --> 00:42:04,920 Speaker 1: can disagree on whether we think it's by women or 746 00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:09,239 Speaker 1: by men, but knowing that women's lives are already full 747 00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:13,439 Speaker 1: of interruptions and not always given the space to be heard, 748 00:42:13,520 --> 00:42:16,440 Speaker 1: I think it's especially important to work on that. Like 749 00:42:16,680 --> 00:42:20,200 Speaker 1: I am so, I hope, I hope you'll join me 750 00:42:20,320 --> 00:42:23,200 Speaker 1: in that because I think it's a huge area of 751 00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:25,880 Speaker 1: growth for me. And it's not just about being polite. 752 00:42:25,880 --> 00:42:27,759 Speaker 1: It's not just about being seen as not a jerk. 753 00:42:27,800 --> 00:42:30,600 Speaker 1: It's really truly about making sure that other voices are 754 00:42:30,680 --> 00:42:33,120 Speaker 1: hurt and that makes you a better leader. By the way, 755 00:42:33,840 --> 00:42:37,200 Speaker 1: I also read an approach to this in academia. This 756 00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:40,400 Speaker 1: actually came out of Intersectionality, a Tool for Gender and 757 00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:45,160 Speaker 1: Economic Justice from the Women's Rights and Economic Change publication 758 00:42:46,120 --> 00:42:49,000 Speaker 1: straight out of u n C. What is the un 759 00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:52,239 Speaker 1: dot EU University of North Carolina, Yes, that's the one, 760 00:42:52,800 --> 00:42:56,400 Speaker 1: uh and in this phenomenal tool that was downloadable on 761 00:42:56,440 --> 00:42:59,000 Speaker 1: the internet for free, which I highly recommend checking out. 762 00:42:59,600 --> 00:43:02,640 Speaker 1: They all so discussed it. From a research perspective, listening 763 00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:05,560 Speaker 1: means your evidence has to be grassroots based. This is 764 00:43:05,640 --> 00:43:08,600 Speaker 1: not about top down me as an organizer tell you 765 00:43:08,840 --> 00:43:11,680 Speaker 1: what to do. It's like, we need to listen to 766 00:43:11,920 --> 00:43:14,719 Speaker 1: our listeners, We need to listen to our fans, We 767 00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:17,799 Speaker 1: need to listen to the populations for whom we want 768 00:43:17,840 --> 00:43:20,480 Speaker 1: to pursue social justice. And you have to take an 769 00:43:20,560 --> 00:43:23,480 Speaker 1: organizer's approach to that, which is like starts with all 770 00:43:23,480 --> 00:43:27,000 Speaker 1: listening tour. You know, I could talk about that all day, 771 00:43:27,600 --> 00:43:30,960 Speaker 1: and that's being an organizer. That's been key. So many 772 00:43:31,120 --> 00:43:33,360 Speaker 1: times you see folks who want to be activists or 773 00:43:33,400 --> 00:43:37,000 Speaker 1: organizers UM building for not with they're not listening to 774 00:43:37,040 --> 00:43:40,440 Speaker 1: the communities that they want to um work with and 775 00:43:40,920 --> 00:43:42,920 Speaker 1: they're thinking of them as you know, communities that they 776 00:43:42,920 --> 00:43:45,800 Speaker 1: are going to be working for and working with is 777 00:43:45,840 --> 00:43:49,480 Speaker 1: so important and it starts with listening. Awesome. The other 778 00:43:49,600 --> 00:43:51,320 Speaker 1: things we want to say here are kind of go 779 00:43:51,400 --> 00:43:56,000 Speaker 1: hand in hand. Welcome difference and know your privilege, And 780 00:43:56,280 --> 00:43:59,680 Speaker 1: I think that boils down to really acknowledging where you're 781 00:43:59,719 --> 00:44:02,840 Speaker 1: priv vileedge comes from. For me, I present this white 782 00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:06,959 Speaker 1: So even though I have Latin heritage doesn't always matter. 783 00:44:07,120 --> 00:44:09,759 Speaker 1: That doesn't necessarily hold me back in the same way 784 00:44:09,840 --> 00:44:13,560 Speaker 1: that other Latinas can be discriminated against the fact that 785 00:44:13,600 --> 00:44:16,080 Speaker 1: I don't have kids. As we discussed in the Mommy tax, 786 00:44:16,280 --> 00:44:20,320 Speaker 1: is a huge privilege from an employment perspective, I'm college educated. 787 00:44:20,400 --> 00:44:25,359 Speaker 1: Like owning your privileges, privileges doesn't mean apologizing for them. 788 00:44:25,640 --> 00:44:29,879 Speaker 1: It means being cognizant of the invisible ways in which 789 00:44:29,960 --> 00:44:32,200 Speaker 1: you have been given a leg up that not everybody has. 790 00:44:32,520 --> 00:44:36,440 Speaker 1: Completely this has been That's that's been huge for me. Um. 791 00:44:36,840 --> 00:44:39,160 Speaker 1: You know, even as a as a black woman, I 792 00:44:39,600 --> 00:44:41,760 Speaker 1: have tons of privilege. I went to college, my parents 793 00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:44,719 Speaker 1: went to college, my parents are still married. You know. Um, 794 00:44:44,760 --> 00:44:48,240 Speaker 1: I don't have children, I'm able bodied, I'm sis gendered, 795 00:44:48,760 --> 00:44:51,799 Speaker 1: being someone who's who's thin. All of these things are 796 00:44:51,840 --> 00:44:53,920 Speaker 1: a kind of privilege. And I think it's really about 797 00:44:54,160 --> 00:44:58,200 Speaker 1: welcoming in folks who don't necessarily share those same privileges 798 00:44:58,280 --> 00:45:01,600 Speaker 1: and making them feel included. Yeah, and sometimes that means 799 00:45:01,719 --> 00:45:05,360 Speaker 1: being willing to be called in, to call in others 800 00:45:05,560 --> 00:45:08,640 Speaker 1: and be willing to be called in because it's hard 801 00:45:08,719 --> 00:45:10,680 Speaker 1: to be aware of all of your privileges. So when 802 00:45:10,760 --> 00:45:13,640 Speaker 1: someone else helps, you become more aware of some privileges 803 00:45:13,719 --> 00:45:16,120 Speaker 1: that you might not even think to add to the list. 804 00:45:16,160 --> 00:45:19,480 Speaker 1: I'm sure we're forgetting some from saying, try your best 805 00:45:19,520 --> 00:45:22,480 Speaker 1: to not succumb to that very natural human instinct to 806 00:45:22,840 --> 00:45:27,160 Speaker 1: jump into the defensiveness mode, to get really uh, you know, 807 00:45:27,480 --> 00:45:30,640 Speaker 1: stressed out about proving yourself as you know, I'm not 808 00:45:30,760 --> 00:45:33,680 Speaker 1: a racist, or I'm not you know, I'm not anti 809 00:45:34,040 --> 00:45:39,400 Speaker 1: LGBT folks, and here's why, and overly correcting or attempting 810 00:45:39,440 --> 00:45:43,000 Speaker 1: to by getting really defensive and offended. It's easy to 811 00:45:43,080 --> 00:45:46,440 Speaker 1: feel offended, but we have to keep in mind that 812 00:45:46,560 --> 00:45:49,000 Speaker 1: when we're being called in, it's an opportunity for learning 813 00:45:49,040 --> 00:45:51,759 Speaker 1: and growth. I say that knowing it's not as easy 814 00:45:51,840 --> 00:45:54,239 Speaker 1: as that said. It's not, and we've I've been on 815 00:45:54,320 --> 00:45:57,000 Speaker 1: all sides of it. It's so not easy, but again, 816 00:45:57,320 --> 00:45:59,880 Speaker 1: you know, growing it's hard. And I also just like 817 00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:03,040 Speaker 1: to tell people or remind folks that it doesn't have 818 00:46:03,160 --> 00:46:05,400 Speaker 1: to be some big trip where if you say the 819 00:46:05,480 --> 00:46:08,319 Speaker 1: wrong thing, everyone is calling you a racist and you're 820 00:46:08,320 --> 00:46:10,120 Speaker 1: a Nazi and you're so awful and terrible and you 821 00:46:10,120 --> 00:46:12,239 Speaker 1: should go away, and we're gonna throw you away. We 822 00:46:12,320 --> 00:46:14,719 Speaker 1: don't need you. It doesn't have to be. It can 823 00:46:14,760 --> 00:46:18,200 Speaker 1: feel like that, yes, I mean, honestly, sometimes that's what 824 00:46:18,280 --> 00:46:20,279 Speaker 1: the internet can be like. Yes, oh, this is why 825 00:46:20,480 --> 00:46:22,000 Speaker 1: this could be a whole other episode of why you 826 00:46:22,160 --> 00:46:25,040 Speaker 1: probably do an episode on safe spaces, um. But it 827 00:46:25,080 --> 00:46:28,120 Speaker 1: doesn't have to be that way. Someone calling you in 828 00:46:28,880 --> 00:46:31,160 Speaker 1: can just be. It doesn't. It doesn't. We don't have 829 00:46:31,280 --> 00:46:33,600 Speaker 1: to go into defensive mode. And going in a defensive 830 00:46:33,640 --> 00:46:36,600 Speaker 1: mode is not productive. Taking a breath, taking a beat, 831 00:46:36,840 --> 00:46:40,640 Speaker 1: and hearing what they're saying, internalizing it, working through that 832 00:46:40,800 --> 00:46:44,480 Speaker 1: natural defensiveness and you know, sitting with that and having 833 00:46:44,520 --> 00:46:47,520 Speaker 1: that be okay and then going from there. Some of 834 00:46:47,600 --> 00:46:50,480 Speaker 1: my therapist friends have said that mirroring can be a 835 00:46:50,520 --> 00:46:54,800 Speaker 1: really helpful exercise for those of us who struggle with 836 00:46:54,920 --> 00:47:00,160 Speaker 1: empathizing with our critics like myself sometimes. Um, and so 837 00:47:00,400 --> 00:47:03,680 Speaker 1: what that I think it's called mirroring if I'm getting 838 00:47:03,719 --> 00:47:07,239 Speaker 1: this right. My friend who's a therapist here has told 839 00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:12,200 Speaker 1: me it it's part of the Amago therapy practice, which 840 00:47:12,320 --> 00:47:15,480 Speaker 1: is perspective taking and then echoing back what your partner 841 00:47:15,600 --> 00:47:18,640 Speaker 1: is saying. So say you're in therapy with your mother 842 00:47:18,840 --> 00:47:21,759 Speaker 1: or your in therapy with your partner and you have 843 00:47:21,840 --> 00:47:25,680 Speaker 1: a fundamental disagreement about their perspective. Your job when you're 844 00:47:25,880 --> 00:47:29,120 Speaker 1: mirroring someone is to echo back to them what they 845 00:47:29,160 --> 00:47:31,799 Speaker 1: are saying and make sense of it. You don't need 846 00:47:31,800 --> 00:47:34,120 Speaker 1: to agree with them, but to make sense of it 847 00:47:34,600 --> 00:47:38,360 Speaker 1: and say something like, Okay, so you're you're saying to 848 00:47:38,560 --> 00:47:42,919 Speaker 1: me that I am a racist, and I can understand 849 00:47:43,560 --> 00:47:48,120 Speaker 1: where you are coming from because this is your experience 850 00:47:48,320 --> 00:47:52,200 Speaker 1: and what I said here made you feel like that, 851 00:47:53,239 --> 00:47:56,719 Speaker 1: you know my intent was one that is racist. I mean, 852 00:47:57,160 --> 00:47:59,000 Speaker 1: that's a really hard thing to do. But to actually 853 00:47:59,160 --> 00:48:02,160 Speaker 1: echo back and articulate to that person what it is 854 00:48:02,200 --> 00:48:05,400 Speaker 1: that they're trying to say can be a good independent exercise. 855 00:48:05,440 --> 00:48:06,839 Speaker 1: So you don't need to actually go ahead and say 856 00:48:06,880 --> 00:48:09,400 Speaker 1: that to folks who are giving a grief, but just 857 00:48:09,520 --> 00:48:14,680 Speaker 1: acknowledging I understand where you're coming from, UM can help us. 858 00:48:14,719 --> 00:48:19,040 Speaker 1: I think work on the very vulnerable and courageous act 859 00:48:19,160 --> 00:48:22,680 Speaker 1: that is empathizing with someone who's totally disagreeing with you 860 00:48:22,840 --> 00:48:26,160 Speaker 1: or trying or basically tearing it down Yeah, I'm glad 861 00:48:26,160 --> 00:48:27,840 Speaker 1: that you brought up empathy, because I think that's what 862 00:48:27,960 --> 00:48:30,840 Speaker 1: it's really all about, is being willing to empathize with 863 00:48:30,880 --> 00:48:33,120 Speaker 1: our critics, with folks who have different who have very 864 00:48:33,160 --> 00:48:35,840 Speaker 1: different lived experiences than we do, and even if you 865 00:48:35,840 --> 00:48:38,399 Speaker 1: don't agree with them, just being willing to hear them 866 00:48:38,760 --> 00:48:42,759 Speaker 1: and understand and process what they're saying and empathize with them. Yeah. 867 00:48:43,200 --> 00:48:44,600 Speaker 1: You know, it's a good example of that. Re member 868 00:48:44,680 --> 00:48:48,320 Speaker 1: on the Migtoo episode, Oh yes, I always feel like 869 00:48:48,400 --> 00:48:52,320 Speaker 1: we overly empathy. I was like, we ended that by saying, 870 00:48:52,360 --> 00:48:54,880 Speaker 1: like we really care about these people. I mean, that's 871 00:48:54,920 --> 00:48:56,680 Speaker 1: fine because you were talking about your friends. But I 872 00:48:56,719 --> 00:48:59,800 Speaker 1: almost love that thinking like we can all disagree to you. 873 00:49:00,040 --> 00:49:02,960 Speaker 1: There's a part of me that wants to say argue, disagree. 874 00:49:03,640 --> 00:49:07,160 Speaker 1: I know I'm not saying agree, I'm saying I understand 875 00:49:07,160 --> 00:49:09,160 Speaker 1: where they're coming from. That's true, and I think, yeah, 876 00:49:09,440 --> 00:49:13,080 Speaker 1: that's something that has been helpful in my life, and 877 00:49:13,239 --> 00:49:16,719 Speaker 1: particularly like being from the South when people, I mean, 878 00:49:16,800 --> 00:49:18,560 Speaker 1: I I got someone note with all these think pieces 879 00:49:18,719 --> 00:49:21,520 Speaker 1: after the election that we're like, think about the racists, um, 880 00:49:21,719 --> 00:49:25,000 Speaker 1: all of those kinds of things, but understand I understand 881 00:49:25,640 --> 00:49:30,280 Speaker 1: things like fear, things like shame, things like not understanding, 882 00:49:30,360 --> 00:49:31,640 Speaker 1: feeling like you live in a world that you no 883 00:49:31,719 --> 00:49:35,200 Speaker 1: longer recognize or understand. I can understand how those feelings 884 00:49:35,560 --> 00:49:40,799 Speaker 1: can bring out some qualities and people that I might 885 00:49:40,880 --> 00:49:44,560 Speaker 1: not agree with. So I don't agree with the outcomes, 886 00:49:44,719 --> 00:49:47,840 Speaker 1: but I can understand how they get to them, right, Okay, 887 00:49:47,960 --> 00:49:51,399 Speaker 1: I think that's a really important differentiation. And I think 888 00:49:51,560 --> 00:49:54,279 Speaker 1: I think the idea of an intersectional framework for feminism 889 00:49:54,600 --> 00:49:57,520 Speaker 1: is one in which you know, we're not just talking 890 00:49:57,520 --> 00:50:00,600 Speaker 1: about being PC here, We're not just talking about being pulled. Correct, 891 00:50:00,680 --> 00:50:03,799 Speaker 1: Although that's not a bad place to start. I think 892 00:50:05,000 --> 00:50:08,000 Speaker 1: whether or not we bring an intersectional approach has very 893 00:50:08,320 --> 00:50:13,040 Speaker 1: real and costly outcomes for the people in our country, 894 00:50:13,360 --> 00:50:17,839 Speaker 1: for our fellow Americans who live every single day at 895 00:50:17,920 --> 00:50:21,279 Speaker 1: those intersections, or even non Americans, right, for those who 896 00:50:21,840 --> 00:50:25,520 Speaker 1: we share this world with. And one example that Crenshaw 897 00:50:25,760 --> 00:50:28,600 Speaker 1: really highlights a lot in her ted X talk, which 898 00:50:28,680 --> 00:50:33,160 Speaker 1: you have to see, it's called the urgency of intersectional feminism. 899 00:50:33,719 --> 00:50:37,040 Speaker 1: She points out an early legal case that really came 900 00:50:37,080 --> 00:50:39,080 Speaker 1: to her attention because she comes at this from a 901 00:50:39,160 --> 00:50:42,560 Speaker 1: legal scholars perspective, which is the case of de graph 902 00:50:42,600 --> 00:50:45,480 Speaker 1: and Read versus General Motors, in which five black women 903 00:50:45,640 --> 00:50:50,000 Speaker 1: sued GM on the grounds of race and gender discrimination. Quote. 904 00:50:50,000 --> 00:50:52,120 Speaker 1: The particular challenge in the law was one that was 905 00:50:52,160 --> 00:50:55,560 Speaker 1: grounded in the fact that anti discrimination law looks at 906 00:50:55,719 --> 00:51:00,200 Speaker 1: race and gender separately, as though black women in or 907 00:51:00,200 --> 00:51:03,280 Speaker 1: women of color don't exist, an example of a total 908 00:51:03,360 --> 00:51:06,399 Speaker 1: lack of an intersectional framework. And she goes on to say, 909 00:51:06,560 --> 00:51:09,920 Speaker 1: the consequence of that is when African American women or 910 00:51:09,960 --> 00:51:14,960 Speaker 1: any other women of color experience either compound or overlapping discrimination, 911 00:51:15,400 --> 00:51:18,719 Speaker 1: the law initially just was not there to come to 912 00:51:18,800 --> 00:51:22,960 Speaker 1: their defense, and GM got off with without consequence. So 913 00:51:23,480 --> 00:51:26,359 Speaker 1: I'm glad to hear that initially it was not there 914 00:51:26,400 --> 00:51:29,359 Speaker 1: because things have changed. But that just goes to show 915 00:51:29,400 --> 00:51:33,919 Speaker 1: you how important intersectional framework can be in making sure 916 00:51:33,960 --> 00:51:39,399 Speaker 1: that issues as serious as police brutality, for instance, are 917 00:51:39,520 --> 00:51:45,520 Speaker 1: not solely focused on Black men whose names are much 918 00:51:45,600 --> 00:51:49,680 Speaker 1: more have much more um namework, cognition in and much 919 00:51:49,719 --> 00:51:53,080 Speaker 1: more ink in the mainstream media than. As Crenshaw points out, 920 00:51:53,360 --> 00:51:56,719 Speaker 1: black women who are brutalized by police every day, it 921 00:51:56,760 --> 00:51:58,960 Speaker 1: feels like in this country totally and don't get the 922 00:51:59,000 --> 00:52:01,600 Speaker 1: same attention yeah, think I think you see that in 923 00:52:01,760 --> 00:52:03,799 Speaker 1: so many different ways. I remember when I was working 924 00:52:03,840 --> 00:52:06,359 Speaker 1: at a news outlet, there was a young black woman 925 00:52:06,360 --> 00:52:10,520 Speaker 1: in Philadelphia who have been um who had been kidnapped, 926 00:52:10,680 --> 00:52:13,520 Speaker 1: and you know, obviously that has its own kind of 927 00:52:13,600 --> 00:52:16,759 Speaker 1: like um things where we think about white women as 928 00:52:16,760 --> 00:52:18,759 Speaker 1: being these kidnapping victims and black women would have don't 929 00:52:18,800 --> 00:52:20,800 Speaker 1: get any kind of recognition. And I was wanted to 930 00:52:20,840 --> 00:52:24,520 Speaker 1: put her name in the and the social media copy 931 00:52:24,600 --> 00:52:26,600 Speaker 1: because I thought this woman could still be found and 932 00:52:26,680 --> 00:52:29,399 Speaker 1: all of that. And my boss said, oh, well, she's 933 00:52:29,480 --> 00:52:33,239 Speaker 1: no Natalie Holloway, thinking you know, she's not you know, 934 00:52:33,840 --> 00:52:37,040 Speaker 1: we don't mean she doesn't have the name recognition of 935 00:52:37,360 --> 00:52:39,880 Speaker 1: a white girl who's gone missing. There's no need to 936 00:52:39,960 --> 00:52:46,760 Speaker 1: like say her name. And yeah, that that moment taught 937 00:52:46,800 --> 00:52:51,560 Speaker 1: me the urgency of intersectionality, the urgency that we understand 938 00:52:51,719 --> 00:52:53,959 Speaker 1: and and really it can be it can be people's lives, 939 00:52:54,120 --> 00:52:56,000 Speaker 1: it can be life or death. I think it's a 940 00:52:56,000 --> 00:52:58,920 Speaker 1: great point, and that's where the hashtag campaign say her 941 00:52:59,000 --> 00:53:03,920 Speaker 1: name comes to. Wow, well, thank you so much. I 942 00:53:04,040 --> 00:53:07,080 Speaker 1: feel like I learned so much from this conversation. And 943 00:53:07,200 --> 00:53:10,080 Speaker 1: we went in really already, you know, feeling like we've 944 00:53:10,160 --> 00:53:13,360 Speaker 1: known a lot. This applies so much to all the 945 00:53:13,400 --> 00:53:16,320 Speaker 1: work that we do here. I hope that you learned 946 00:53:16,680 --> 00:53:22,600 Speaker 1: with us listeners, and I hope that you'll courageously continue 947 00:53:22,640 --> 00:53:25,160 Speaker 1: this conversation with us online. We really try to stay 948 00:53:25,200 --> 00:53:27,759 Speaker 1: true to our our philosophy that we can learn and 949 00:53:27,800 --> 00:53:30,520 Speaker 1: grow together at stuff I've never told you, and we 950 00:53:30,640 --> 00:53:33,839 Speaker 1: rely on your calling us in. We hope that you'll 951 00:53:33,880 --> 00:53:37,880 Speaker 1: call us in with some empathy. I get so like 952 00:53:38,360 --> 00:53:40,279 Speaker 1: this has been such a growth experience for me to 953 00:53:40,360 --> 00:53:44,279 Speaker 1: not be defensive and not get triggered, and I can 954 00:53:44,480 --> 00:53:47,040 Speaker 1: really I want to appreciate those of you who write 955 00:53:47,120 --> 00:53:51,960 Speaker 1: in and do so with um with the intention to 956 00:53:52,200 --> 00:53:55,040 Speaker 1: truly help and not you know, and not make us 957 00:53:55,120 --> 00:53:57,720 Speaker 1: feel bad. I appreciate that I have a little empathy 958 00:53:57,760 --> 00:54:00,759 Speaker 1: for people who don't know about sports. Y'all. Oh my up, No, 959 00:54:00,880 --> 00:54:03,239 Speaker 1: I'm just kidding. Oh god, we will never talk about 960 00:54:03,320 --> 00:54:07,719 Speaker 1: hockey again. Let me just make I'm loving that you 961 00:54:07,800 --> 00:54:11,359 Speaker 1: just went there. Um, Okay, so anything else, I think 962 00:54:11,440 --> 00:54:13,400 Speaker 1: I think that's it. Give us a holler on Twitter 963 00:54:13,520 --> 00:54:16,160 Speaker 1: at Mom's Stuff podcast. Make sure you tag us on 964 00:54:16,239 --> 00:54:20,359 Speaker 1: those hot instas that stuff Mom never told you and uh, 965 00:54:20,560 --> 00:54:23,960 Speaker 1: you can always shoot us an email at mom stuff 966 00:54:24,000 --> 00:54:25,680 Speaker 1: at how stuff works dot com.