WEBVTT - Jury Finds Meta, Google Liable for Addiction 0:00:02.520 --> 0:00:07.000 Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. 0:00:07.840 --> 0:00:10.520 Yeah, this is difficult and worse some analysis. So two 0:00:10.560 --> 0:00:12.879 of the big movies to the downside within the technology 0:00:12.920 --> 0:00:16.120 sector are Alphabet, the parent of Google, and Meta. Meta 0:00:16.160 --> 0:00:19.720 having its worst day since the end of October. October 0:00:19.760 --> 0:00:22.720 of twenty twenty five last year. The morning started with 0:00:22.800 --> 0:00:26.120 mag seven under pressure because of the belief by the 0:00:26.120 --> 0:00:28.479 market that the war in Iram will be prolonged. But 0:00:28.520 --> 0:00:31.040 there was a big piece of news in the last 0:00:31.040 --> 0:00:34.959 twenty four hours, a jury verdict finding Meta and Google 0:00:35.360 --> 0:00:39.720 liable for harming a young social media user with products 0:00:39.760 --> 0:00:44.120 that the court decided were deliberately or negligently designed to 0:00:44.159 --> 0:00:48.480 be addictive. This was the first social media addiction trial. 0:00:48.560 --> 0:00:51.680 Let's bring in bloombogs legal reporter Madlan Meckelberg, who was 0:00:51.760 --> 0:00:54.560 in the courtroom for that verdict, and let's start with 0:00:54.600 --> 0:00:58.920 the very basics the jury decision, what that decision was 0:00:59.000 --> 0:01:01.760 based on, predicated on, and we'll go from there. 0:01:01.880 --> 0:01:06.160 Madelin Right, So, a jury in Los Angeles spent about 0:01:06.280 --> 0:01:10.520 nine days deliberating on evidence that they heard over a 0:01:10.600 --> 0:01:15.080 roughly four week trial. They heard from people including Meta 0:01:15.240 --> 0:01:20.200 CEO Mark Zuckerberg, Instagram head Adam Aseri. But then they 0:01:20.240 --> 0:01:22.800 also heard from people within the life of this young 0:01:22.840 --> 0:01:25.319 woman who brought the suit, who were able to speak 0:01:25.319 --> 0:01:28.240 about the harms and suffering that she experienced as a 0:01:28.280 --> 0:01:32.200 result of using these platforms. But these cases, as you mentioned, 0:01:32.280 --> 0:01:36.119 are about this claim, this central idea that these companies 0:01:36.360 --> 0:01:40.520 knowingly and intentionally designed their platforms to be addicted and 0:01:40.600 --> 0:01:43.440 should have known that they would cause farm to young users. 0:01:43.840 --> 0:01:48.120 There in lies the crux Madeline, because before the arguments 0:01:48.120 --> 0:01:50.400 have been about the content from what in many ways 0:01:50.400 --> 0:01:53.080 they are shielded. But this is about how we are 0:01:53.160 --> 0:01:56.560 served said content. More broadly, what is it that is 0:01:56.640 --> 0:02:00.880 deemed to be harmful? And all we already expecting the 0:02:00.920 --> 0:02:03.600 business model changes are going to be interpreted from this 0:02:03.720 --> 0:02:07.880 because things have changed. Companies have responded to stain extent, 0:02:07.920 --> 0:02:10.800 but they were deemed in many ways negligent because there 0:02:10.840 --> 0:02:12.959 weren't warnings to younger people. 0:02:14.280 --> 0:02:14.520 Right. 0:02:14.560 --> 0:02:16.680 That's why you've heard this case be referred to as 0:02:16.680 --> 0:02:20.360 a landmark case, because this really is a novel legal theory. 0:02:20.720 --> 0:02:24.200 As you know, these companies have been shielded from immunity 0:02:24.240 --> 0:02:27.280 from suits alleging harm by users due to content on 0:02:27.320 --> 0:02:30.720 their platform. But this is about the design. So jurors 0:02:30.800 --> 0:02:34.120 heard a lot about the algorithm itself, and then they 0:02:34.160 --> 0:02:37.480 heard a lot about features that these companies use that 0:02:37.760 --> 0:02:40.480 they had experts come in to say are designed to 0:02:40.480 --> 0:02:44.120 be addictive. They called it addiction by design. That's being 0:02:44.120 --> 0:02:48.239 peppered with notifications that endless scroll, being able to pick 0:02:48.280 --> 0:02:50.680 up your phone and scroll to through the social media 0:02:50.720 --> 0:02:53.280 feeds and not really reach an end of content. It's 0:02:53.320 --> 0:02:57.200 about videos that automatically play once you finish watching one, 0:02:57.560 --> 0:03:00.280 and so they say that all these features cumulatively are 0:03:00.280 --> 0:03:02.280 designed to hook you and keep you on the platform 0:03:02.320 --> 0:03:06.160 as long as possible, and that children are particularly susceptible 0:03:06.240 --> 0:03:07.359 to those kind of features. 0:03:08.040 --> 0:03:10.280 We just showed statements on the screen, But in summary, 0:03:10.480 --> 0:03:13.200 both companies disagree with the verdict. Metas looking at its 0:03:13.240 --> 0:03:15.760 legal options. Google plans to appeal, and as we said 0:03:15.760 --> 0:03:18.520 at the start of the segment, both stocks are under pressure. 0:03:18.639 --> 0:03:20.760 Later in the show, we'll get into the kind of 0:03:20.800 --> 0:03:23.320 business and what the side and why the stocks under pressure. 0:03:23.440 --> 0:03:25.760 But you set out that what happened Bluebags. Madeline Meckelberg, 0:03:25.800 --> 0:03:28.120 who was in the courtroom in Los Angeles, thank you 0:03:28.400 --> 0:03:30.440 joining us now with more on the implications of the 0:03:30.480 --> 0:03:33.720 case is Eric Goldman, Associate Dean for Research at Santa 0:03:33.720 --> 0:03:38.119 Clara University School of Law. And Eric, you've joined us 0:03:38.240 --> 0:03:42.000 throughout this process. We now have a jury verdict. I 0:03:42.000 --> 0:03:45.280 think to start just your response to the outcome of 0:03:45.320 --> 0:03:46.800 this specific case. 0:03:48.400 --> 0:03:50.640 The whole point of the jury trial is that we 0:03:50.720 --> 0:03:54.720 needed an answer from average Americans about how they viewed 0:03:54.720 --> 0:03:58.520 the culpability of social media services, and we got unanswered. 0:03:58.960 --> 0:04:01.680 It's an answer that I think the defendants don't like. 0:04:02.080 --> 0:04:04.720 The planners I think are happy with it, but it's 0:04:04.880 --> 0:04:07.360 just one answer of what is expected to be multiple 0:04:07.400 --> 0:04:09.920 answers coming from additional trials. 0:04:11.480 --> 0:04:14.800 Again, the companies do not agree with the outcome. Google 0:04:14.920 --> 0:04:17.839 plans to appeal. We know Meta is looking at his options. 0:04:18.160 --> 0:04:21.000 One of the things that you're cited as looking at 0:04:21.520 --> 0:04:24.640 is the level of damages awarded in this specific case. 0:04:24.680 --> 0:04:28.000 And I think we discussed in prior conversations the context 0:04:28.080 --> 0:04:31.360 that there are other legal proceedings going alongside this, in 0:04:31.440 --> 0:04:34.839 parallel with this case. But why focusing on the damages? 0:04:34.880 --> 0:04:35.840 Why is that important? 0:04:37.520 --> 0:04:40.200 It allows the parties to start to estimate how much 0:04:40.279 --> 0:04:43.440 money are we even talking about? And until we got 0:04:43.480 --> 0:04:47.359 a data point like the jury verdict. Really the parties 0:04:47.400 --> 0:04:50.320 couldn't even imagine any agreement. 0:04:50.360 --> 0:04:53.280 They work so far apart. Now it can start to 0:04:53.320 --> 0:04:54.159 quantify the number. 0:04:54.240 --> 0:04:57.160 So if there's three thousand plaintiffs that are currently pending, 0:04:57.400 --> 0:05:00.880 we're talking about roughly close to twenty billion dollar. Now 0:05:00.880 --> 0:05:03.400 those are numbers that are huge, and yet there are 0:05:03.480 --> 0:05:06.240 numbers that Google and Meta might think that they can afford. 0:05:06.560 --> 0:05:08.839 So now that we know how much money might be 0:05:08.880 --> 0:05:12.160 in play, there's new grounds for discussions about settlement. 0:05:13.120 --> 0:05:15.680 It's not just the consumer protection angle though, but there's 0:05:15.680 --> 0:05:16.640 also the public schools. 0:05:16.640 --> 0:05:17.719 There's a states eric. 0:05:18.000 --> 0:05:19.880 But I want to go to what happened earlier in 0:05:19.880 --> 0:05:22.320 the week on Tuesday in New Mexico because actually a 0:05:22.400 --> 0:05:26.360 much larger summer money was being demanded of Meta after 0:05:26.440 --> 0:05:28.839 it was deemed not to have protected teenagers in that 0:05:28.880 --> 0:05:31.600 particular state when it came to sexual predators. 0:05:31.800 --> 0:05:35.040 Now, can you weave in that particular. 0:05:34.720 --> 0:05:37.560 Legal strike on Meta and what that means more broadly 0:05:37.600 --> 0:05:40.040 in this context, Yeah. 0:05:39.839 --> 0:05:43.080 It's a reinforcement that again, a different jury was asked 0:05:43.320 --> 0:05:46.040 essentially the same set of questions, how response on our 0:05:46.080 --> 0:05:49.640 social media for the harms that their user suffer and 0:05:49.680 --> 0:05:52.599 the jury came back with functionally the same answer. 0:05:53.000 --> 0:05:55.920 Now, in that case, they were limited. 0:05:55.520 --> 0:05:57.880 In in terms of how many damages they could assign 0:05:57.920 --> 0:06:02.200 to any particular victim. Really know how that number might 0:06:02.240 --> 0:06:05.200 have looked if a different set of legal theories were used. 0:06:05.760 --> 0:06:08.360 But it is the sign that we have two juries 0:06:08.360 --> 0:06:12.280 saying we will impose substantial damages on social media. 0:06:12.800 --> 0:06:14.919 Those are two really key data points. 0:06:15.120 --> 0:06:19.039 And Eric, of course, as we've mentioned, both companies disagree 0:06:19.480 --> 0:06:22.000 and Google is coming out strongly saying you. 0:06:22.000 --> 0:06:23.679 Misinterpret our very business model. 0:06:23.880 --> 0:06:28.440 YouTube is not a social media platform, it's a streaming platform. 0:06:28.600 --> 0:06:33.160 Whereas Meta is looking at its own arguments, but more broadly, 0:06:33.320 --> 0:06:35.760 its argument has been there is so much more to 0:06:35.839 --> 0:06:40.320 mental health than one particular platform, one particular app, And 0:06:40.640 --> 0:06:43.560 they actually had some evidence from various doctors showing that 0:06:43.600 --> 0:06:47.080 in some ways certain of these social media platforms offered. 0:06:46.760 --> 0:06:49.400 Positive narratives to that. 0:06:49.680 --> 0:06:52.080 It was indeed a woman called Kaylee we understand who 0:06:52.120 --> 0:06:55.440 brought up the particular court case in this hearing. 0:06:55.880 --> 0:06:57.960 Eric, what do you make of those arguments? 0:06:58.640 --> 0:07:02.360 I think that it's we're so easy to focus on 0:07:02.400 --> 0:07:05.520 the parties in the courtroom. We have Kayleie the victim 0:07:05.839 --> 0:07:08.880 and telling her story, and we've got the social media 0:07:08.880 --> 0:07:12.080 services telling their story. But there's a whole bunch of 0:07:12.120 --> 0:07:16.320 other individuals who are affected by the discussions taking place 0:07:16.360 --> 0:07:19.960 in that courtroom. There are many users who benefit extensively 0:07:20.000 --> 0:07:22.680 from social media, who make it an intual part of 0:07:22.680 --> 0:07:24.840 their day and often the best part of their day. 0:07:25.200 --> 0:07:27.880 And if there were any changes in social media, either 0:07:27.960 --> 0:07:31.360 due to the financial pressure or due to legal compulsion, 0:07:31.840 --> 0:07:36.120 those benefits for those other users might reduce or go away. 0:07:36.640 --> 0:07:39.080 And none of that was really relevant to the trial. 0:07:39.200 --> 0:07:41.280 And as a result, there's a lot. 0:07:41.160 --> 0:07:42.920 Of people who are going to be affected by these 0:07:43.040 --> 0:07:45.720 cases who don't even have a voice in the proceedings. 0:07:46.400 --> 0:07:47.320 Well said Eric Olman. 0:07:47.480 --> 0:07:50.720 Appreciate you coming on Santa Clara University School of Law. 0:07:51.480 --> 0:07:52.400 Really deep dive. 0:07:52.440 --> 0:07:55.000 Then now coming up, we've got more on the wider 0:07:55.040 --> 0:07:57.880 market implications to tech. After the landmark social media addiction 0:07:58.000 --> 0:08:02.040 verdict against Meta and Google from New York and San 0:08:02.080 --> 0:08:04.040 Francisco discipluembog Tech. 0:08:13.640 --> 0:08:14.960 We're looking at Meta and Google. 0:08:15.000 --> 0:08:18.120 Meta in particularly on track for its worst day since October. 0:08:18.440 --> 0:08:20.360 The summary of the cell side is that there is 0:08:20.400 --> 0:08:23.760 going to be an overhang on this name a headwind, 0:08:24.120 --> 0:08:28.120 a risk relating to social media addiction because the Landmark 0:08:28.160 --> 0:08:31.760 jury verdict holding Google Meta liable for harming a young 0:08:31.880 --> 0:08:35.720 user is being compared to the groundbreaking cases that force 0:08:35.840 --> 0:08:39.120 changes for Big Tobacco that could have an impact on 0:08:39.120 --> 0:08:41.160 social media firms, advertising businesses. 0:08:41.320 --> 0:08:42.600 Let's get out to bloemas Kirk. 0:08:42.480 --> 0:08:46.120 Wagner, who leads our coverage of social media as an industry, 0:08:46.600 --> 0:08:48.960 this is what you've been writing about, that Meta and 0:08:49.000 --> 0:08:52.160 Google risk a Big Tobacco like response because of the 0:08:52.200 --> 0:08:55.359 outcome of yesterday's trial. What's the reporting telling. 0:08:55.160 --> 0:08:58.880 Us, Yeah, well, you know, the jury found that these 0:08:59.080 --> 0:09:02.200 products can be a right. You think of other consumer 0:09:02.280 --> 0:09:04.520 products over the years that have been found to be addicted, 0:09:04.559 --> 0:09:06.640 Big tobacco is probably top of that list, and you 0:09:06.720 --> 0:09:09.360 see the tarnish on an industry like that, and you 0:09:09.440 --> 0:09:11.800 have to sort of think, is this the same kind 0:09:11.840 --> 0:09:14.120 of thing that's going to be happening to the social 0:09:14.280 --> 0:09:17.160 media platforms. You know, Eric was just talking with you 0:09:17.160 --> 0:09:19.400 guys in the last segment about the fact that there 0:09:19.400 --> 0:09:22.319 are thousands of other cases looming with similar arguments. This 0:09:22.480 --> 0:09:25.560 is just the first. Obviously each case is different, but 0:09:25.640 --> 0:09:27.720 if you sort of look at what's happened this week 0:09:27.760 --> 0:09:30.720 between New Mexico and the trial in LA and say, okay, 0:09:30.800 --> 0:09:34.120 juries are buying this argument. Juries are believing that these 0:09:34.600 --> 0:09:37.679 companies and platforms are responsible. And you extrapolate that out 0:09:37.840 --> 0:09:40.120 thousands of times over the next couple of years, you 0:09:40.160 --> 0:09:42.480 suddenly are looking at a very different industry with a 0:09:42.559 --> 0:09:43.480 very different reputation. 0:09:44.120 --> 0:09:47.160 And Kurt, this comes with the current context that already 0:09:47.200 --> 0:09:50.400 the landscape has shifted. Australia has a ban on sixteens 0:09:50.400 --> 0:09:53.560 anunder we're looking at as you're replicating, Europe is discussing, 0:09:53.559 --> 0:09:56.800 even California thinking about it. And at the same time, 0:09:57.000 --> 0:10:00.080 we've actually seen the companies try to respond with changes, 0:10:00.400 --> 0:10:03.040 and we're certainly telling us about the changes and the 0:10:03.080 --> 0:10:04.839 protections that certain parents and kids have. 0:10:05.360 --> 0:10:07.199 Will business models have to change? 0:10:08.360 --> 0:10:11.440 I think that's the ultimate question, because if they just 0:10:11.480 --> 0:10:14.199 simply have to write a check and this problem goes away, 0:10:14.840 --> 0:10:18.080 what's the incentive. These are trillion dollar companies. They're not 0:10:18.320 --> 0:10:21.280 going to clock at writing a six million dollar check. 0:10:22.040 --> 0:10:26.960 If Congress, especially in the US, sees these types of trials, 0:10:26.960 --> 0:10:30.000 sees these verdicts, sees the momentum that's being built around 0:10:30.000 --> 0:10:33.480 the child's safety sort of movement here and says, hey, look, 0:10:33.480 --> 0:10:35.400 this is sort of what we've been talking about but 0:10:35.440 --> 0:10:36.160 been dragging. 0:10:35.920 --> 0:10:36.360 Our feet on. 0:10:36.640 --> 0:10:39.040 We're going to pass a law that changes some of 0:10:39.080 --> 0:10:41.640 these features and forces the companies to change their products. 0:10:41.640 --> 0:10:44.640 Now it gets really interesting because if these companies can't 0:10:44.679 --> 0:10:46.679 get people to come, spend as much time, spend as 0:10:46.760 --> 0:10:49.760 much time scrolling, obviously that's going to affect, you know, 0:10:49.880 --> 0:10:51.560 how much money they can make from revenue. These are 0:10:51.559 --> 0:10:54.800 attention based businesses and so anytime the attention is not 0:10:54.880 --> 0:10:56.520 on them, it could hurt. 0:10:57.880 --> 0:11:00.040 In the report that you did with Alex on the 0:11:00.120 --> 0:11:03.640 possible product changes, what are they? And they're you know, 0:11:03.760 --> 0:11:06.840 part of those that are taking legal action against the companies. 0:11:07.000 --> 0:11:10.240 They are pushing for specific changes or features on those platforms. 0:11:10.280 --> 0:11:11.040 And what are they. 0:11:11.880 --> 0:11:14.480 So the individual plaintiffs, like what we saw this week 0:11:14.720 --> 0:11:17.480 in LA, those are personal injury cases. They're not seeking 0:11:17.640 --> 0:11:20.040 changes to the product. But the school districts that are 0:11:20.080 --> 0:11:24.120 suing these platforms are seeking changes. I spoke to one 0:11:24.160 --> 0:11:26.640 of the lead lawyers who's going to be representing the 0:11:26.640 --> 0:11:30.040 school district yesterday. She talked about notifications as being a 0:11:30.040 --> 0:11:33.240 big one, right, bringing people and sometimes in the middle 0:11:33.240 --> 0:11:35.080 of the night, to open up their phone and go 0:11:35.120 --> 0:11:35.760 on these services. 0:11:35.840 --> 0:11:37.280 She talked about parental controls. 0:11:37.520 --> 0:11:40.280 Age verification is a big one, making sure that young 0:11:40.400 --> 0:11:42.400 kids that aren't supposed to be on these services are 0:11:42.400 --> 0:11:44.319 not on them. So those are the types of things 0:11:44.400 --> 0:11:47.000 they're going to be pushing for, and you know, those 0:11:47.040 --> 0:11:49.560 also aligned with what we see members of Congress talk about. 0:11:49.640 --> 0:11:52.040 They just haven't really gotten anything over the line in 0:11:52.080 --> 0:11:52.760 terms of a law. 0:11:52.800 --> 0:11:55.840 Here, I most Kat Wagner, who's been across this story. 0:11:56.160 --> 0:11:57.160 We thank you so much. 0:11:57.400 --> 0:11:59.960 Let's get more of what this means for the business model, 0:12:00.040 --> 0:12:02.920 what means in the market. Minusmiley senior analysts covering social 0:12:03.000 --> 0:12:05.640 media and E Marketer, it joins us. Now, minda, do 0:12:05.679 --> 0:12:10.040 you anticipate significant changes to revenue these companies off the 0:12:10.040 --> 0:12:11.480 back of these landmark cases? 0:12:12.920 --> 0:12:14.720 Yeah, I mean, I don't think we're going to see 0:12:14.800 --> 0:12:18.680 any big changes happen overnight, right. I think I'm going 0:12:18.760 --> 0:12:20.840 to I'm going to draw a pairallel of TikTok here. 0:12:20.880 --> 0:12:23.480 You know, whenever we saw a lot of uncertainty around 0:12:23.760 --> 0:12:26.679 the bin and we didn't know exactly what was going 0:12:26.720 --> 0:12:28.800 to happen to the app in the US, we actually 0:12:28.800 --> 0:12:31.319 didn't really see a lot of advertiser pullback or even 0:12:31.400 --> 0:12:34.120 user pullback. So you know, that's all to say that, 0:12:34.200 --> 0:12:36.760 I think in these moments that are very you know, 0:12:36.840 --> 0:12:40.680 headline grabbing and whatnot, even though they are big news, 0:12:40.679 --> 0:12:43.760 it doesn't necessarily mean that we're actually seeing marketers pull 0:12:43.760 --> 0:12:46.440 back quoite yet users pull back quite yet. Now that's 0:12:46.440 --> 0:12:49.280 not to say that in the long run that you 0:12:49.280 --> 0:12:52.360 know that that won't change. I think, ultimately, as Kurt 0:12:52.440 --> 0:12:55.079 was saying, if we do see these products or these 0:12:55.120 --> 0:12:57.719 apps and these platforms significantly change in terms of how 0:12:57.720 --> 0:13:00.000 people can use them, what features are on them, then yeah, 0:13:00.280 --> 0:13:03.760 that's the moment I think we would definitely see see 0:13:03.960 --> 0:13:07.679 a larger pullback from marketers and users and men. 0:13:08.360 --> 0:13:10.760 Is so interesting that, of course you reference TikTok, because 0:13:10.880 --> 0:13:13.720 we should remind the audience that TikTok and Snap settled 0:13:13.880 --> 0:13:17.199 ahead of this trial, But they too are implicated in 0:13:17.240 --> 0:13:19.600 a lot of the other cases. And this isn't just 0:13:19.679 --> 0:13:22.200 a meta and a Google issue or broadly, so how 0:13:22.240 --> 0:13:23.839 far and wide could this not be cast? 0:13:25.080 --> 0:13:27.160 Yeah, it's a great question. I mean, obviously, in this 0:13:27.240 --> 0:13:29.720 exact case. Like you said, it was just meta and YouTube. 0:13:29.760 --> 0:13:33.200 But this is just the very beginning, and I think 0:13:33.520 --> 0:13:35.920 ultimately we could see a world where yeah, all of 0:13:35.960 --> 0:13:39.520 the major all of the major social network Snapchat, Instagram, Facebook, 0:13:39.720 --> 0:13:42.199 you know, are the ones that continually come up in 0:13:42.240 --> 0:13:44.479 these conversations could be implicated. 0:13:45.400 --> 0:13:47.000 I mean, there's i thing I think that you guys 0:13:47.000 --> 0:13:53.199 at e Marketer recognize is that away from that specific case, broadly, 0:13:53.240 --> 0:13:57.640 the social media industry is facing change. Young people and 0:13:57.920 --> 0:14:01.680 I don't use that term to aldi or lightly don't 0:14:01.720 --> 0:14:05.439 consume as much or spend as much time on social media. 0:14:05.520 --> 0:14:09.480 That's a kind of conscious thing. Equally, you know, the 0:14:09.600 --> 0:14:11.800 landscape is a battle for ibles. You know, you have 0:14:11.840 --> 0:14:15.600 a choice of where you spend your screen time. Where 0:14:15.600 --> 0:14:18.000 does best factor into that broader landscape. 0:14:19.240 --> 0:14:21.240 Yeah, it's a great question to me that That's something 0:14:21.240 --> 0:14:23.160 I've been talking about a lot lately, is that none 0:14:23.200 --> 0:14:26.200 of this is happening in a silo. I mean, these 0:14:26.320 --> 0:14:30.520 verdicts are our landmark cases for sure, but we are 0:14:30.560 --> 0:14:33.520 seeing just generally, social behaviors evolve and shift as they 0:14:33.560 --> 0:14:36.280 always do. I mean, we are seeing time spent on 0:14:36.320 --> 0:14:38.280 social media in the US kind of hit a wall. 0:14:38.520 --> 0:14:40.920 To be clear, if people still spend incredible amounts of 0:14:40.960 --> 0:14:43.840 time on these platforms, which is why these cases are 0:14:43.880 --> 0:14:46.160 happening in the first place, but we are kind of seeing, 0:14:46.360 --> 0:14:48.560 you know, that major growth that it's been happening for 0:14:48.960 --> 0:14:50.880 years now it's starting to hit a wall. And we 0:14:51.000 --> 0:14:54.880 also are seeing the beginnings of sort of a backlash 0:14:54.880 --> 0:14:58.160 to social media, especially among younger people who are really 0:14:58.200 --> 0:15:00.600 you know, they kind of know that they they are 0:15:00.640 --> 0:15:03.000 addicted to these platforms, and yet they also want to 0:15:03.000 --> 0:15:05.760 get off of them. They feel quite disillusioned by them. 0:15:06.480 --> 0:15:08.640 There is this push to be more mindful of how 0:15:08.720 --> 0:15:11.240 much time you're spending on social media. That's why we're 0:15:11.240 --> 0:15:14.880 seeing companies like Brick come up and just this push 0:15:14.920 --> 0:15:17.200 to really get off of screens in general and get offline. 0:15:17.200 --> 0:15:20.240 So these social media companies, they're dealing with these verdicts, 0:15:20.240 --> 0:15:22.880 but they're also just dealing with like larger behavioral issues 0:15:22.880 --> 0:15:24.200 that are having an impact. 0:15:24.760 --> 0:15:28.040 Minda big tech more specifically social media having a big 0:15:28.080 --> 0:15:31.680 tobacco moment. That's not you we've heard that before. It 0:15:31.760 --> 0:15:34.760 kind of comes and goes. This time, is it any different? 0:15:36.200 --> 0:15:38.920 Yeah, I does feel like this time is going to 0:15:38.960 --> 0:15:39.480 be different. 0:15:39.720 --> 0:15:41.040 I do think so. 0:15:41.120 --> 0:15:42.720 I mean again, I don't think we're going to see 0:15:42.720 --> 0:15:45.280 massive changes overnight, but the you know, these are being 0:15:45.320 --> 0:15:47.560 called landmark cases for a reason, and the fact that 0:15:47.600 --> 0:15:50.400 these juris are not coming out, you know, in the 0:15:50.400 --> 0:15:53.400 favor of these social media companies is not a good 0:15:53.440 --> 0:15:56.280 look for them. And I do think even you know, 0:15:56.440 --> 0:15:58.200 I was talking earlier about how you know, I don't 0:15:58.200 --> 0:16:01.520 think we're going to see like a massive hips to 0:16:01.520 --> 0:16:03.640 ad revenue or anything like that, but I do think 0:16:03.720 --> 0:16:06.600 it's going to you know, marketers and users are like parents, 0:16:06.640 --> 0:16:08.520 you know, all kinds of stakeholders are going to be 0:16:08.920 --> 0:16:12.120 a real you know, further thinking about how they show 0:16:12.200 --> 0:16:14.280 up on these platforms, and I think there is an 0:16:14.320 --> 0:16:17.320 element of like reputational damage that is already happening in 0:16:17.400 --> 0:16:19.440 terms of, like, you know, do we want to be 0:16:19.640 --> 0:16:23.840 showing ads on these platforms that are increasingly just looking like, 0:16:23.920 --> 0:16:26.040 you know, don't don't have a great reputation right now. 0:16:26.080 --> 0:16:28.240 And I think, you know, for a while, the reputation 0:16:28.280 --> 0:16:30.520 hasn't been great, but it's certainly not getting better at 0:16:30.560 --> 0:16:33.160 this point, so we could see some shifts happening there. 0:16:33.200 --> 0:16:36.440 For sure, Meta is down more than five percent, having 0:16:36.480 --> 0:16:39.120 its worst day since October. Minda smiley senior analyst that 0:16:39.120 --> 0:16:40.800 E marketered, thank you very much. We have got a lot 0:16:40.800 --> 0:16:45.280 more on this topic. Our own original investigation can't look away. 0:16:45.520 --> 0:16:49.080 The case against social media is available. 0:16:48.760 --> 0:16:51.640 On all Bloomberg platforms. Now coming up. 0:16:51.720 --> 0:16:55.520 Regulators in Europe are also stepping up scrutiny of online platforms. 0:16:55.520 --> 0:16:58.040 We have more on that next. This is Bloomberg Tech. 0:17:05.200 --> 0:17:07.600 It's time now for talking tech and first up. China's 0:17:07.600 --> 0:17:10.640 food delivery leader, that's Mate one posted a modest four 0:17:10.680 --> 0:17:13.640 point one percent increase in sales. The company's expansion efforts 0:17:13.680 --> 0:17:17.240 outside of China helped offset price wal pressures from Alibaba 0:17:17.240 --> 0:17:19.679 and JD dot Com. Still, that rivalry has weighed on 0:17:19.680 --> 0:17:21.720 the stock, which is had forty five percent over the 0:17:21.760 --> 0:17:24.840 past year plus. Moonshot Ai is in early stages of 0:17:24.880 --> 0:17:26.240 considering an IPO in Hong Kong. 0:17:26.280 --> 0:17:27.400 Now That's according to sources. 0:17:27.520 --> 0:17:30.600 The company behind the Kimni chatbot has reportedly held talks 0:17:30.640 --> 0:17:34.240 with China International Capital and Goldman Sacks, though deliberations are 0:17:34.240 --> 0:17:37.600 still ongoing. And in Europe, more regulators are stepping up 0:17:37.640 --> 0:17:41.400 scrutiny of online platforms now the EU has launched an 0:17:41.440 --> 0:17:45.080 investigation into Snapchat, focusing on how it verifies as users 0:17:45.119 --> 0:17:48.520 sages and addresses risks like grooming criminal activity. At the 0:17:48.560 --> 0:17:51.320 same time, it's advancing a separate probe at the moment 0:17:51.359 --> 0:17:54.680 into pornography platforms the sober concerns it failed to adequately 0:17:54.720 --> 0:17:57.159 block miners from accessing its sites. 0:17:57.600 --> 0:17:57.679 Ed. 0:17:59.320 --> 0:18:02.000 Just taking another quickly at Metacarra because the stock is 0:18:02.040 --> 0:18:04.760 down severely two standard deviation move on track for its 0:18:04.800 --> 0:18:08.440 biggest drop since October, and actually that drop is deepening. 0:18:08.760 --> 0:18:12.639 Remember a jury verdict finding both Meta and Google liable 0:18:12.680 --> 0:18:16.560 of harming a young user with negligible, deliberate products designed 0:18:16.560 --> 0:18:18.240 to make social media addictive. 0:18:18.600 --> 0:18:19.480 Okay, Coming up on the. 0:18:19.400 --> 0:18:21.880 Program, Rachel Holt from Construct Capital is going to join 0:18:21.960 --> 0:18:26.960 us to discuss early stage investments in startups, modernizing critical industries, 0:18:27.040 --> 0:18:31.280 venture capital, startups, and the private markets. It is halftime 0:18:31.560 --> 0:18:34.520 from San Francisco and New York. This is Bloomberg Tech. 0:18:44.480 --> 0:18:47.280 Welcome back to Bloomberg Tech. Let's check in on a 0:18:47.320 --> 0:18:49.879 specific set of movers right now, because we're on draw 0:18:49.880 --> 0:18:53.320 attention to memory makers and the chip sector. More broadly, 0:18:53.600 --> 0:18:55.720 we are down by seven percent. If you looked at 0:18:55.760 --> 0:18:58.600 Asian trading of sk Heinez so Samsung it was off 0:18:58.600 --> 0:19:00.760 by six percent as well at Micron. Here in the 0:19:00.840 --> 0:19:02.840 United States it's or by four percent. We are going 0:19:02.880 --> 0:19:06.600 even lower. And this is all sparked by well, a 0:19:06.640 --> 0:19:10.040 new algorithm coming from alphabet Google really talking up on 0:19:10.320 --> 0:19:12.040 x something actually they discovered a year ago. 0:19:12.280 --> 0:19:12.320 Ed. 0:19:12.560 --> 0:19:14.280 But this is about the fact that you perhaps need 0:19:14.359 --> 0:19:17.679 less memory when running large language models, to a factor 0:19:17.720 --> 0:19:21.480 of six fold less. But if I hear Jevins paradox 0:19:21.520 --> 0:19:23.840 talked one more time they're an analyst, I need to 0:19:23.840 --> 0:19:25.760 start getting some money for each time I read it 0:19:25.880 --> 0:19:27.399 ed because there is this view that if you can 0:19:27.480 --> 0:19:29.080 do more with less, well you keep doing more. 0:19:29.880 --> 0:19:32.560 Yeah, that's the basic sum of it. Turboquont is an 0:19:32.560 --> 0:19:35.560 algorithm that, in the context running an NLM has an 0:19:35.680 --> 0:19:38.560 up to factor of six x less memory requirements. The 0:19:38.560 --> 0:19:42.359 market's taking that and saying that just means the piper scalers, 0:19:42.359 --> 0:19:44.080 those building out infrastructure. 0:19:43.680 --> 0:19:44.800 Will buy less memory. 0:19:44.880 --> 0:19:47.320 And that kind of went round the clock US Asia 0:19:47.400 --> 0:19:48.000 back to US. 0:19:48.560 --> 0:19:50.720 And now though we're still sort of having that knee 0:19:50.800 --> 0:19:53.359 joke reaction more broadly, because these focks will run up 0:19:53.400 --> 0:19:55.520 so far so fast. Look, some of the names in 0:19:55.560 --> 0:19:58.400 Asia are up seven hundred percent. Micron was up about 0:19:58.400 --> 0:20:00.919 what's three hundred percent in the previous fiscal year in 0:20:01.000 --> 0:20:03.119