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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Are you ready for a

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Speaker 1: Saturday Night special?

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Speaker 2: And no, I don't mean a cheap thirty eight you

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Speaker 2: bite the local gun store on Saturday night after you

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Speaker 2: get your paycheck. I mean a Saturday night crime story.

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Speaker 2: And boy is it a Saturday night special. Luigi MANGIONI

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Speaker 2: some call him the Sexy Assassin. I call him suspect

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Speaker 2: and murder one, believe it or not. A Minnesota man

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Speaker 2: thirty six years old, old enough to know better, pushing forty,

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Speaker 2: poses as an FBI agent and tries to bust MENGIONI

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Speaker 2: out of jail. Okay, I'm Nancy Grace and it's Saturday night,

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Speaker 2: and boy is this special?

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Speaker 1: This is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for

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Speaker 1: being with us.

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Speaker 2: Mark Anderson, thirty six years old, charged with impersonating a

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Speaker 2: federal agent and after he allegedly tries to sneak Mangione

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Speaker 2: out of the MDC Metropolitan Detention Center in Brookline. The

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Speaker 2: Ill Faded Apple Dumpling Gang escaped attempt included Anderson approaching

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Speaker 2: the intake area of MDC to get close to the.

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Speaker 1: Spoiled brat silver.

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Speaker 2: Spoon fed Mangione accused of gunning down the CEO of

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Speaker 2: United Healthcare Now. Anderson allegedly lies to the jail staff,

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Speaker 2: claiming he had quote paperwork quote signed by a judge

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Speaker 2: authorizing Mangione's release.

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Speaker 1: They claim he was armed with a barbecue fork and

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Speaker 1: a pizza cutter. Okay, that did not work.

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Speaker 3: Anderson, who claimed to have weapons in his possession, presented

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Speaker 3: a Minnesota driver's license after being asked to present his credentials.

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Speaker 3: Jail employees who checked Anderson's backpack reportedly found a barbecue

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Speaker 3: fork and a round steel blade resembling a pizza cutter.

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Speaker 3: An FBI agent wrote in an affidavit, I have reviewed

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Speaker 3: those papers in Anderson's possession and they appear to be

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Speaker 3: related to filing claims against the United States Department of Justice.

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Speaker 3: A law enforcement source says that Anderson was in New

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Speaker 3: York for a job prospect, which did not work out.

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Speaker 3: The source also said Anderson had been working out a pizzeria.

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Speaker 3: At his first court appearance, Anderson appeared unconcerned about the

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Speaker 3: charges against him, flashing spectators a peace sign on his

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Speaker 3: way into the courtroom. Anderson's lawyer argued he's mentally ill

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Speaker 3: and should be released to a hospital, but the judge

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Speaker 3: ordered Anderson be held without bail, meaning he'll soon be

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Speaker 3: joining Mangioni at the very complex he tried to break

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Speaker 3: him out of. Charon Merkel called Anderson a flight risk.

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Speaker 2: Instead of focusing on this koop from Wichita who tries

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Speaker 2: to buzz Manngioni out from behind bars, let's look at

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Speaker 2: what really matters. What happened the morning of the murder?

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Speaker 2: A man shot dead in broad daylight on the sidewalk.

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Speaker 4: A masked gunman shoots dead the United Healthcare CEO in

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Speaker 4: midtown Manhattan, and urgent search ensues for the suspect. Last

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Speaker 4: scene entering Central Park.

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Speaker 2: Marriage secrets being revealed as this health boss worth millions

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Speaker 2: of dollars is gunned down and open around the public.

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Speaker 2: What do we make of clues left behind? Cryptic and

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Speaker 2: odd clues? For instance, bullets found actually had been inscribed

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Speaker 2: with letters on them.

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Speaker 1: A cell phone had been left behind. Is the DNA

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Speaker 1: on a water bottle? Was this a pro?

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Speaker 2: A silencer was used and in the middle of the assassination,

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Speaker 2: the gun jams and seemingly the pro shooter simply adjusted

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Speaker 2: and continued firing.

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Speaker 1: Everyone.

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Speaker 2: Thank you for being with us. If this can happen

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Speaker 2: in public. What are we to think of it? Well,

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Speaker 2: take a listen to what the chief of Detectives has

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Speaker 2: to say.

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Speaker 5: This morning, at six forty six am, patrol offices from

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Speaker 5: Midtown North Preestinct responded to a nine to one one

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Speaker 5: call of a person shot in front of the Hilton

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Speaker 5: Hotel located at thirteen thirty.

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Speaker 6: Five Avenue of the Americas.

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Speaker 5: This is between West fifty third Street and West fifty

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Speaker 5: fourth Street. At six forty eight am, officers arrive and

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Speaker 5: find the victim, Brian R.

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Speaker 6: Thompson, a fifty.

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Speaker 5: Year old male, on the sidewalk in front of the Hilton,

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Speaker 5: with gunshot wounds to his back and leg.

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Speaker 2: You know, the way the sheoter handled the weapon, the

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Speaker 2: use of a silencer, the mask, the line in wait

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Speaker 2: all indicates a professional hit. But a pro wouldn't want

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Speaker 2: to be caught. A pro would do everything not to

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Speaker 2: get caught. So then why we're there, especially engraved bullets

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Speaker 2: with cryptic messages on them. Mm mmm, it sounds like

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Speaker 2: a fifth grade girl riding a crime thriller.

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Speaker 1: Something's way off.

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Speaker 2: With this, joining me and all star panel to make

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Speaker 2: sense of what we know right now, But for a

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Speaker 2: straight out to investigative reporter Lauren Colin, joining us co

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Speaker 2: host Primetime Crime on YouTube and you can find her

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Speaker 2: at Popcrime dot tv. Who has gone to the scene

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Speaker 2: and investigated Lauren, what can you tell us.

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Speaker 7: Yes, Nancy, on the street, the entire street of West

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Speaker 7: fifty third Street was blocked off. There was a plane,

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Speaker 7: clothes detectives as well as uniformed officers basically not saying anything.

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Speaker 7: I asked questions. I asked witnesses if they heard anything,

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Speaker 7: and the parking lot attendants were actually there earlier that morning,

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Speaker 7: but they said, you know, due to the silencer, they

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Speaker 7: didn't hear anything.

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Speaker 2: Tell me your understanding, what you learned of what happened,

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Speaker 2: Starting at the beginning.

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Speaker 7: Starting at the beginning, I learned that Brian Thompson arrived

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Speaker 7: in New York Monday. Now he was not staying at

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Speaker 7: the Hilton. He was staying at a hotel across the street.

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Speaker 7: He was set to speak at eight am at their

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Speaker 7: annual investors conference, and he was arriving early at six

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Speaker 7: forty five. So as he walked into the entrance of

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Speaker 7: the Hilton, it was revealed by NYPD that this gunman

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Speaker 7: was allegedly lying in wait before he shot him.

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Speaker 1: Take a listen to Chief Detective Joe Kenny.

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Speaker 5: Mister Thompson was removed by ems or Roosevelt Hospital, where

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Speaker 5: he was pronounced dead at seven twelve am. Mister Thompson

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Speaker 5: is the CEO of United Healthcare and resides in Minnesota.

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Speaker 5: This from night Watch. Mitown North Detective Squad and Manhattan

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Speaker 5: South Homicard responded to the scene and began their investigation.

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Speaker 1: We're learning a lot.

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Speaker 2: I want to go straight out to Bill Daily joining

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Speaker 2: us from New York. Former FBI investigator forends at photography

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Speaker 2: international security expert. Bill, thank you for being with us.

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Speaker 2: You see the video steals we're showing. I don't know

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Speaker 2: that a pro would have done this right in front

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Speaker 2: of a surveillance video.

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Speaker 8: Well, exactly right, Nancy. Is that you know people throw

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Speaker 8: on this thing about you know, professional hitman. I mean

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Speaker 8: those are those are out of the movies. I mean,

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Speaker 8: this could be somebody who trained, who thought it out. Well,

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Speaker 8: obviously he's done a lot of reconnaissance and research, but

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Speaker 8: we're talking about professional hit people. That's something made in

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Speaker 8: the movies. I would say, Nancy, a couple of things.

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Speaker 8: I'm quite familiar with this area. Being a New Yorker

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Speaker 8: and having worked on the streets of New York for

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Speaker 8: quite a number of years, is that this is actually

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Speaker 8: the side entrance the Missus Thompson was apparently staying around

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Speaker 8: the corner, we believe it, at Marriott Hotel, which actually

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Speaker 8: gave him a couple of avenues of approach to the hotel.

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Speaker 8: This is the side jest the maniagers on sixth Avenue.

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Speaker 8: So for this gunman to know that he was going

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Speaker 8: to be coming down the side street at this time

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Speaker 8: suggested to me there was some other reconnaissance inside information

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Speaker 8: that he knew that he was at another hotel. He

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Speaker 8: wasn't saying at the Hilton that he could be coming

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Speaker 8: down this street. Tompson could have easy walked around seventh Avenue,

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Speaker 8: come down fifty fifth Street or another street to grab

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Speaker 8: a cup of coffee, but he didn't. And so there

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Speaker 8: are a couple of things out here that kind of

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Speaker 8: jump out to me that are really concerning with your

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Speaker 8: gud to how much information was known about the specific

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Speaker 8: movements of mister Thompson that morning.

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Speaker 2: Bill Daly, I know exactly what you mean about that location,

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Speaker 2: But wouldn't it have been easy for the perp the

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Speaker 2: killer to be waiting in the lobby waiting for the victim,

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Speaker 2: Brian Thompson, to walk out. He didn't have to be

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Speaker 2: lying in wait at that side entrance. He could have

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Speaker 2: simply followed him. He did come up behind him.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, I mean, there are couple of things here in Nancy,

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Speaker 8: that is true. And in fact, if he knew if

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Speaker 8: he was going to be speaking of the conference, he

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Speaker 8: didn't have to be waiting outside. He could have done

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Speaker 8: it just in the lobby, upstairs, in an elevator or

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Speaker 8: some other other place where he knew there was kind

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Speaker 8: of a kind of cool chow point where he would

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Speaker 8: have had to travel through in order to get to

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Speaker 8: the conference. The other thing is that which kind of

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Speaker 8: points to perhaps something more someone from the area or

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Speaker 8: from the region, is the fact that mister Simpson lives

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Speaker 8: out in Minnesota. The day to day he comes to

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Speaker 8: and from work, he comes to and from his home,

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Speaker 8: he goes perhaps to see maybe his children's sporting events,

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Speaker 8: who knows what. But those are kind of open areas,

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Speaker 8: other areas where he could have been a targeted. But

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Speaker 8: yet this was done in New York City, where he

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Speaker 8: doesn't live, where he was visiting where this person would

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Speaker 8: have only had a couple of days opportunity for any

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Speaker 8: kind of reconnaissance and kind of staging this event. And

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Speaker 8: so it kind of leads me to suggest that this

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Speaker 8: person chows New York either because it's more difficult. You

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Speaker 8: can get lost in the city, you can do things

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Speaker 8: like this. It could have disappear into Central Park and

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Speaker 8: perhaps try to hide your trails, you know, or it

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Speaker 8: was a matter of convenience that the person was in

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Speaker 8: and around the area and didn't have to travel to Minnesota.

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Speaker 1: You're right. The victim in town to speak and investor conference.

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Speaker 9: Listen, the victim was in New York City to speak

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Speaker 9: at an investor conference. It appears a suspect was lying

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Speaker 9: in wait for several minutes, and as the victim was

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Speaker 9: walking to the conference hotel, the suspect approached from behind

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Speaker 9: and fired several rounds, striking the victim at least once

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Speaker 9: in the back and at least once in the right calf.

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Speaker 9: Many people passed the suspect, but he appeared to wait

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Speaker 9: for his intended target.

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Speaker 1: Well, it's clearly targeted, Bill Daily.

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Speaker 2: There is no robbery, there is no carjacking, there is

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Speaker 2: no sex attack, so it's targeted. Can we look at

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Speaker 2: the photo of the suspect's face. Now, we keep hearing

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Speaker 2: we don't know much about him, but I can tell

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Speaker 2: you right now he's white. Number one. He knows enough

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Speaker 2: to cover his face. But I say that he is

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Speaker 2: not wearing gloves. To Lauren Colin, what can you tell me?

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Speaker 2: A discarded water bottle?

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Speaker 7: The discarded water bottle, Nancy, was found in the alleyway,

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Speaker 7: which is between fifty third and fifty fourth Street. It's

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Speaker 7: the zig Field Ballroom Alleyway.

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Speaker 1: A pro would not leave behind a water bottle.

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Speaker 2: A pro wouldn't even be drinking anything right before you

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Speaker 2: murder somebody exactly.

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Speaker 8: You're right, Nancy, And go to my suggestion, this person

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Speaker 8: orchestrated this, pre planned it. I thought it out. You

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Speaker 8: speak about perhaps the weapon a little bit later on,

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Speaker 8: all these things tying to somebody who is knowledgeable about

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Speaker 8: only what they were doing, but certainly not a professional.

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Speaker 8: That's somebody we might see kind of portrayed.

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Speaker 6: In the movies.

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Speaker 8: These people would be much more sub rosa about their efforts,

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Speaker 8: would kind of not be seen beforehand. And I'm going

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Speaker 8: to suggest to you is that besides this video and

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Speaker 8: these images we have now as that police are looking

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Speaker 8: to kind of put together both the timeline and his trail,

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Speaker 8: there'll be some more coming out and we'll have we'll

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Speaker 8: have some more facial images. Perhaps the DNA may help.

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Speaker 8: But as we all know, working these cases is you

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Speaker 8: need to have something to compare it to. You need

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Speaker 8: to have some databasing compared to or using ancestral DNA,

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Speaker 8: perhaps tie this person back to someone else and work

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Speaker 8: through that angle. So even though we have all these things,

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Speaker 8: and it could be who knows, maybe fragmented fingerprints on

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Speaker 8: the bullet casings or other evidence left behind, but again,

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Speaker 8: you need something to compare it to.

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Speaker 5: What we know is that the shooter arrived at the

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Speaker 5: location on foot about five minutes prior to the victim's arrival.

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Speaker 5: He stands alongside the building line as numerous other people

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Speaker 5: and pedestrians pass him by.

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Speaker 6: From video, we see at six forty.

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Speaker 5: Four am, the victim is walking alone towards the Hilton

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Speaker 5: at the exiting his hotel across the street. We believe

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Speaker 5: the victim was headed to the Hilton hotel to attend

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Speaker 5: the United Health Group investors conference that was scheduled to

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Speaker 5: start at eight am.

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Speaker 2: Let me look at that stance one more time, where

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Speaker 2: the shooter is pointing pointing the gun at the victim.

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Speaker 2: You know, everybody on the panel jump in, but Bill

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Speaker 2: Dale look at that. It looks like someone has been

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Speaker 2: watching too many movies and they think that's a professional

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Speaker 2: killer stance.

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Speaker 1: You see that right there.

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Speaker 2: I'm just telling you, Look, he doesn't have on gloves.

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Speaker 2: He's been hanging out, drinking from a water bottle that

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Speaker 2: he leaves behind. I also understand a cell phone has

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Speaker 2: been left behind.

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Speaker 1: And then he gets on a city bike.

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Speaker 2: It reminds me of a bank robbery I prosecuted where

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Speaker 2: the purp had a bike waiting around the corner.

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Speaker 1: He was anything but a.

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Speaker 2: Pro and he pedaled off just like this guy is doing.

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Speaker 2: What do you make of that?

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Speaker 8: Bial Yeah, all these things kind of add up to

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Speaker 8: the fact that this person, again gave some thought. But

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Speaker 8: yet it's about quote professional. I mean, we really don't

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Speaker 8: have these kind of quote professional hitmen throughout the country.

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Speaker 8: Maybe the mafia does, but we're not talking about people

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Speaker 8: knocking off executives. This doesn't happen in the United States.

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Speaker 8: Perhaps overseas, and perhaps a concern with people travel high

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Speaker 8: risk locations, but certainly not in New York City. But

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Speaker 8: I'd probably tell you is that both that stands is

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Speaker 8: kind of a suggestion that the person thought they knew

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Speaker 8: what they were doing, but also the fact that this

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Speaker 8: gun jam the jam several times apparently right to each shot.

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Speaker 8: According to police, they believe that it jammed maybe because

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Speaker 8: there was a silencer on the front, a silencer that

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Speaker 8: perhaps caused the jam to occur. But he did clear

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Speaker 8: it very quickly and efficiently, So he is somebody who

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Speaker 8: did do some practice training with that weapon beforehand.

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Speaker 2: Well, well, Lauren Colin, the gun jammed more than once.

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Speaker 7: Apparently it jammed between shots, but you know that didn't

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Speaker 7: stop him, so he kept shooting.

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Speaker 2: After he saw the er is yes, Okay, that's telling

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Speaker 2: me a lot right there, daily, daily, daily, A pro

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Speaker 2: is going to take a gun that jams between every shot?

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Speaker 1: Really?

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Speaker 10: Yeah, Well, I'm going.

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Speaker 8: To some of the forensic guests versus that by using

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Speaker 8: that silence, and again, silencers are nothings that you were

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Speaker 8: supposed to legally have, so if it was homemade, it

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Speaker 8: could have caused more of this kind of malfunction.

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Speaker 11: Of the weapon.

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Speaker 8: But again, it did seem as though calmly he cleared

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Speaker 8: that weapon, he was able to pull a.

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Speaker 2: Slide on the top daily did you say homemade? Look,

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Speaker 2: this is whoo, this is melan, This is not pro.

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Speaker 1: I don't even know where that came from, a.

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Speaker 10: Homemade silence, But come on, man, a homemade silencer that

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Speaker 10: doesn't work, a pretend professional killer stance, drinking a water

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Speaker 10: bottle and.

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Speaker 2: Leaving it behind and hopping on a bike without gloves

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Speaker 2: and taking.

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Speaker 1: Off no, no, uh uh I gotta figure this thing out, guys.

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Speaker 2: Why was a health ceo worth millions of dollars gunned

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Speaker 2: down in public?

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Speaker 1: Early early morning? Many people saying it's a pro chiller.

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Speaker 5: The shooter then flees on foot northbound into an alleyway

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Speaker 5: between fifty fourth Street and fifty fifth Street. Once at

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Speaker 5: West fifty fifth Street, the shooter continues to walk westbound

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Speaker 5: on the Avenue in Americas, where he gets onto an

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Speaker 5: electric e city bike and rides northbound on the Avenue

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Speaker 5: Americas towards Central Park. At six forty eight am, we

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Speaker 5: have the shooter riding this bike into Central Park at

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Speaker 5: Center Drive. We're still tracking video. The last we see

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Speaker 5: with him on that bike is in Central Park at

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Speaker 5: the scene, we recover three live nine millimeters rounds and

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Speaker 5: three discharged nine milimeters shell casings. The motor for this

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Speaker 5: murder currently is unknown, but based on the evidence we

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Speaker 5: have so far, it does appear that the victim was

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Speaker 5: specifically targeted. But at this point we do not know why.

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Speaker 5: This does not appear to be a random act of violence.

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Speaker 2: Okay, I know that, I know it's not random. Joining me,

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Speaker 2: high profile lawyer BERNARDA. Vielona, New York criminal defense attorney.

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Speaker 1: This is her bait.

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Speaker 2: She is also a former prosecutor, BERNARDA. Thank you for

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Speaker 2: being with us. What do you make of it so far?

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Speaker 2: Because not only did the pro assassin lead behind three

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Speaker 2: discharged nine millimere shellcasings, they were engraved with three cryptic words.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's straight out of a crime novel and

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Speaker 1: another saying BERNARDA. Anybody that knows how to.

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Speaker 2: Type goog l E could find out this guy was

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Speaker 2: speaking where and at what time?

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Speaker 12: Yeah, but I still think there's an inside job because

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Speaker 12: in a sense of they could have known where he

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Speaker 12: was speaking, but they wouldn't have known exactly what time

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Speaker 12: he would have been leaving out of his hotel because

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Speaker 12: remember this shooter had only been waiting.

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Speaker 13: About five minutes, so he had to have had some

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Speaker 13: kind of inside information to know the exact time that

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Speaker 13: Brian Thompson would have been leaving his hotel.

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Speaker 1: Look, all of this looks very shady.

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Speaker 13: I don't think it's a professional kill at all, because

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Speaker 13: number one, believing of the showcases and the bullets there,

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Speaker 13: and then jumping on a bike. I think there's a

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Speaker 13: lot more to do this. I don't see that there's

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Speaker 13: going to be an arrest anytime soon, though.

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Speaker 2: Hold on just a moment on that Daily Bill Daily

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Speaker 2: with me former FBI investigator and joining us from New York,

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Speaker 2: intimately familiar with the ins and outs the alleyways where

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Speaker 2: this happened. The guy then goes to Central Park. That

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Speaker 2: was a pretty good move, and it's not that far

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Speaker 2: from where the shooting was by bike. But he goes

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Speaker 2: into Central Park, which is blanketed with surveillance videos.

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Speaker 1: I mean, and we can follow his drill.

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Speaker 2: He had to ditch the bike somewhere. I think that

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Speaker 2: we're going to find out where he leaves the bike.

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Speaker 2: And again no gloves. As you said earlier, of course

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Speaker 2: you got to have something to compare it to if

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Speaker 2: he's not in the DNA or the APHIST database, we

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Speaker 2: don't have anything to match it too.

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Speaker 1: But that said, can we just agree this is not

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Speaker 1: a pro.

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Speaker 8: Yeah, I surely agree it's not a pro. Also think

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Speaker 8: that there's other probably kind of breadcrumbs left behind, is

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Speaker 8: that you know, if this was connected with either the

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Speaker 8: business because of see that either of the had been

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Speaker 8: a customer who was certainly totally upset and obsessed with

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Speaker 8: this individual, or perhaps that former employee. That could have

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Speaker 8: been a number of things. But I think there you

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Speaker 8: have to go back and start looking at where the

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Speaker 8: threats against the company. Apparently according to the victim's wife

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Speaker 8: there were, and if there were, who was making those.

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Speaker 14: And what was the steps?

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Speaker 2: Let me starch up with what you're just saying, Bill Daily,

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Speaker 2: Lauren Conlin. Now, according to one person there have been

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Speaker 2: threats on the victim's line, and that is his wife.

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Speaker 2: Were those threats ever reported to l A law enforcement?

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Speaker 1: Nancy?

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Speaker 7: Those threats were never reported to law enforcement?

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Speaker 5: With me?

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Speaker 1: Also is Scott Iiker founding member.

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Speaker 2: I can't say this enough of the FBI's Cellular Analysis

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Speaker 2: Survey Team, Can I I just say he didn't just

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Speaker 2: fall off the turnip truck people. I ker, if I

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Speaker 2: was going to pick him off, I would go somewhere

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Speaker 2: with a silencer and wait out in the middle of nowhere,

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Speaker 2: right let his body lay there for three or four

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Speaker 2: hours before anybody figures anything out.

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Speaker 1: So why intentionally find him in New York City?

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Speaker 15: I agree, there's a lot of other places that you

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Speaker 15: could have done this murder, but there's a lot of

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Speaker 15: benefits of doing it in a crowded city also. I mean,

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Speaker 15: if you think about it, you might be able to

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Speaker 15: mix in with the regular people walking to and from work,

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Speaker 15: cars and everything like that. He didn't think about all

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Speaker 15: the cameras in the area. He didn't think about all

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Speaker 15: the people that might see at different things. And obviously

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Speaker 15: I agree with the other gentleman that says I don't

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Speaker 15: think this guy is a professional. I do think he

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Speaker 15: has some training. I mean, I was on the FBI

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Speaker 15: SWAT team. I shot twice a week, and I can

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Speaker 15: see that type of stance that he had some training

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Speaker 15: for him to do that malfunction. Cle clear the gun,

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Speaker 15: shoot again, clear it clear it. That takes training in time.

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Speaker 15: So I think, at least in my mind, he's made

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Speaker 15: a lot of mistakes, but I don't think he's a professional.

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Speaker 15: I totally agree with that. But he has had some

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Speaker 15: training and we are.

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Speaker 1: Learning more from Chief of Detectives Joe Kenney.

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Speaker 5: From speaking to other employees that traveled with him to

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Speaker 5: New York. Doesn't seem that he had these security detail.

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Speaker 5: He left the hotel by himself, was walking, didn't seem

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Speaker 5: like he had any issues at all.

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Speaker 6: So I don't think he did not have a security detail.

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Speaker 1: Lauren Conlin correct me if I'm wrong.

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Speaker 2: But wasn't there just a firefighter's pension fund that sued

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Speaker 2: the victim because he dumped about thirty one percent of

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Speaker 2: his stock made fifteen million dollars just before everything went south, right,

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Speaker 2: and there's a complaint about that. Yeah, that's happening. The

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Speaker 2: wife says, there's death threats. He's worth millions of dollars

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Speaker 2: and he doesn't have security detail.

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Speaker 7: Yes, his net worth is forty three million dollars, Nancy.

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Speaker 7: And not only that, I found a plethora of lawsuits.

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Speaker 7: He was accused of creating an algorithm to deny patient's coverage.

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Speaker 7: So I found quite a few lawsuits there. And then additionally,

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Speaker 7: there was a data breach a few I believe it

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Speaker 7: was February of twenty twenty four, where many many people were.

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Speaker 1: At risk and not happy crime stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 2: This Idgit Anderson warned the staff at MDC he had

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Speaker 2: weapons in his bag, and a search of his belongings

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Speaker 2: absolutely did find two weapons, a barbecue fork and something

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Speaker 2: that looked like a pizza cutter.

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Speaker 1: Well, he was not prepared to bust anybody out of

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Speaker 1: the MDC, but that.

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Speaker 2: Doesn't mean he won't be found guilty. Back to what

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Speaker 2: really matters, the death of the victim.

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Speaker 1: Listen to this.

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Speaker 2: It's just like a fifth grade girl writes an action

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Speaker 2: thriller or tries to listen.

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Speaker 16: Please have released a new chilling detail in the assassination

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Speaker 16: style shooting. Three live rounds and three shell casings recovered

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Speaker 16: from the crime scene, and cops are now saying there

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Speaker 16: are inscriptions on the shellcasings. The words deny, defend, and

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Speaker 16: depose were engraved on the bullets.

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Speaker 2: So the words deny, defend, and depose were engraved on

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Speaker 2: the bullets.

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Speaker 1: By who the local jeweler.

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Speaker 2: Joining me right now is a ballistics expert, Joseph Scott Morgan,

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Speaker 2: Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My

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Speaker 2: Feet on Amazon, and star of a hit series Body Bags.

441
00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:58,320
Speaker 2: That Joe Scott Morgan Joe Scott really okay, I can't

442
00:23:58,359 --> 00:24:01,879
Speaker 2: hammer this enough. What did they write it in.

443
00:24:01,920 --> 00:24:09,040
Speaker 1: Fancy cursive defend deposed? Seriously? That sounds like the ransom.

444
00:24:08,720 --> 00:24:12,040
Speaker 2: Note left behind in John Benney a small foreign faction

445
00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:14,919
Speaker 2: once one hundred and eighteen thousand dollars stop.

446
00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:18,159
Speaker 14: What's really fascinating about this, Nancy is the fact that

447
00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:21,040
Speaker 14: they've got three spent casings that are on the ground,

448
00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:24,520
Speaker 14: and then they have the three live rounds, and he's

449
00:24:24,600 --> 00:24:26,959
Speaker 14: having to try to clear this weapon because he's had

450
00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:32,239
Speaker 14: a malfunction, which actually does occur with some frequency when

451
00:24:32,280 --> 00:24:37,800
Speaker 14: you have a suppressed weapon. And the fact that he

452
00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:41,640
Speaker 14: had engraving and I keep hearing this term, this engraving

453
00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:47,280
Speaker 14: that was on these casings, the fact that he had

454
00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:52,320
Speaker 14: a jam in the weapon, I would think that it

455
00:24:52,359 --> 00:24:55,000
Speaker 14: would be engraved on all of the rounds. So how

456
00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:57,480
Speaker 14: can you plan for that, For instance, that these rounds

457
00:24:57,480 --> 00:25:01,320
Speaker 14: are stacked, which they would be in a magazine, and

458
00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:05,399
Speaker 14: every time he clears it, he's going to eject a

459
00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:09,000
Speaker 14: live round as opposed to those that were spent when

460
00:25:09,040 --> 00:25:11,600
Speaker 14: he was firing. If you watch the sequence on a video,

461
00:25:12,280 --> 00:25:15,360
Speaker 14: he fires once and then it looks like he clears,

462
00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:18,800
Speaker 14: but he may have actually cleared two rounds at that

463
00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:22,040
Speaker 14: point time that we're still live because the weapon is

464
00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:24,080
Speaker 14: jamming on him and he has to cycle through it,

465
00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:28,240
Speaker 14: so he's taken a lot of time. My suspicion is

466
00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:30,440
Speaker 14: it might be there might be engraving on all of

467
00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:33,480
Speaker 14: the rounds, and that he has taken a lot of

468
00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:37,320
Speaker 14: time somewhere, probably you know, at home or wherever it is.

469
00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:40,200
Speaker 14: He shows up prepared to a certain degree, although he

470
00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:42,639
Speaker 14: didn't wear gloves and he didn't fully mask his face.

471
00:25:45,000 --> 00:25:47,639
Speaker 14: There's a lot still to kind of untangle here. But

472
00:25:47,760 --> 00:25:51,399
Speaker 14: that point is certainly fascinating. I've never encountered this before

473
00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:56,399
Speaker 14: in my years in forensics to this degree. Now, you know,

474
00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:58,480
Speaker 14: Hollywood makes a big deal out of this kind of thing,

475
00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:02,480
Speaker 14: but it's just not something you commonly run into. My

476
00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:06,080
Speaker 14: question is what's the skill level of the engraving In

477
00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:12,399
Speaker 14: addition to attempting to define how this was engraved, what

478
00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:16,240
Speaker 14: instrumentality was used, and then maybe the folks will be

479
00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:18,520
Speaker 14: able to pick up on some form in his writing.

480
00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:19,840
Speaker 14: If he's doing his free hand.

481
00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:24,000
Speaker 16: Brian Thompson's wife Paulette tells NBC News that Brian has

482
00:26:24,040 --> 00:26:26,960
Speaker 16: been receiving death threats. She doesn't go into detail, saying

483
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:29,280
Speaker 16: it was basically due to a lack of coverage. She

484
00:26:29,920 --> 00:26:32,600
Speaker 16: doesn't know exactly, but Brian said there were some people

485
00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:33,880
Speaker 16: that had been threatening him.

486
00:26:34,119 --> 00:26:38,240
Speaker 2: Straight back out to Joe Scott Morgan joining us. Jo Scott,

487
00:26:38,400 --> 00:26:40,800
Speaker 2: if I said earlier, if there was a death thought

488
00:26:40,800 --> 00:26:43,760
Speaker 2: on my husband a I wouldn't let him travel alone

489
00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:45,840
Speaker 2: to New York. I would at least go with him

490
00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:49,159
Speaker 2: at the very least. But that said, they have children

491
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:52,479
Speaker 2: to take care of back at home. But no security detail,

492
00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:57,360
Speaker 2: no police reports, nothing, And she is the only one

493
00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:01,000
Speaker 2: coming forward with the alleged threats. If they weren't reported

494
00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:05,959
Speaker 2: to police, can anyone within the company verify this ever happened?

495
00:27:06,119 --> 00:27:08,000
Speaker 14: Well, if he hasn't, if he hasn't spoken of this

496
00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:10,600
Speaker 14: to anybody that's around him, but why would he not,

497
00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:13,800
Speaker 14: you know, say something about this. And let me tell

498
00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:17,040
Speaker 14: you one more thing. A guy that is in his atmosphere.

499
00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:19,600
Speaker 14: You know, we see all these celebrities, so called celebrities

500
00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:22,360
Speaker 14: that are out there that have these you know security

501
00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:25,840
Speaker 14: details with it. This is a guy, Nancy, that actually

502
00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:33,159
Speaker 14: has a level of value and would heighten anybody's a

503
00:27:33,280 --> 00:27:36,359
Speaker 14: census relative to the danger he could potentially be in.

504
00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:38,840
Speaker 14: Why wouldn't you put a couple of people on him

505
00:27:38,920 --> 00:27:41,720
Speaker 14: to check the rout at least to be body people

506
00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:44,400
Speaker 14: that are going to score him around. Maybe he didn't

507
00:27:44,440 --> 00:27:47,040
Speaker 14: want that. I have no idea, but I do know

508
00:27:47,119 --> 00:27:49,639
Speaker 14: that he's a prime target. It's just fascinating to me

509
00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:53,320
Speaker 14: that they chose this particular location, this individual went about

510
00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:56,399
Speaker 14: it in this manner because I agree with all of

511
00:27:56,440 --> 00:27:59,520
Speaker 14: the other panelists. I think this guy has some weapons familiarity,

512
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:02,399
Speaker 14: but he is in no way of pro If he

513
00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:05,080
Speaker 14: had been a pro, we would not have seen the

514
00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:06,320
Speaker 14: video last that long.

515
00:28:07,720 --> 00:28:11,440
Speaker 2: Scott, if you're sitting down, you may need to lay

516
00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:12,840
Speaker 2: down for what you're about to hear.

517
00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:13,480
Speaker 1: Take a listen.

518
00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:16,600
Speaker 16: The suspect was reportedly spoted outside a public housing project

519
00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:18,800
Speaker 16: roughly three miles from the crime scene at five am,

520
00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:21,840
Speaker 16: caring what look like an e bike battery. He's then

521
00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:24,640
Speaker 16: seen again checking out at Starbucks not far from the Hilton,

522
00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:27,879
Speaker 16: just minutes before the attack. It's unclear what exactly the

523
00:28:27,920 --> 00:28:31,040
Speaker 16: suspect purchase, but police believe a water bottle and candy

524
00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:33,320
Speaker 16: wrapper left at the crime scene may belong to the

525
00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:36,480
Speaker 16: shooter and are testing the items for latent fingerprints and DNA.

526
00:28:36,760 --> 00:28:38,440
Speaker 2: The next thing we're going to hear, Lauren Colin, is

527
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:41,920
Speaker 2: that the shooter used a credit card. I mean he

528
00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:46,280
Speaker 2: hung out at a Starbucks just before the shooting, and

529
00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:49,400
Speaker 2: of course places himself at a public housing project.

530
00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:50,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right.

531
00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:54,080
Speaker 2: Blame the people of the housing project somehow drag that

532
00:28:54,280 --> 00:28:57,480
Speaker 2: into it. I guarantee you that was orchestrated three miles

533
00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:00,520
Speaker 2: from the scene with what looked to be carrying an

534
00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:04,360
Speaker 2: e bike battery in cases e bike crapped.

535
00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:04,600
Speaker 1: Out on him.

536
00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:06,920
Speaker 2: Now, at first, this is reported to be a city bike,

537
00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:10,360
Speaker 2: the kind that are easily accessed all around New York City.

538
00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:12,440
Speaker 1: Now we're hearing it may not be a city bike.

539
00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:17,680
Speaker 2: That said, then he's at Starbucks just beside the Hilton,

540
00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:21,480
Speaker 2: minutes before the attack, staring straight into the surveillance cameras.

541
00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:24,440
Speaker 1: So there's not just a water bottle he leaves behind

542
00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:25,320
Speaker 1: a candy wrapper.

543
00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:29,080
Speaker 2: Somebody needs a bit of honey, somebody wants the starbus

544
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:29,960
Speaker 2: before a murder.

545
00:29:30,280 --> 00:29:34,400
Speaker 7: Yes, and there also have been reports that NYPD believes

546
00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:37,320
Speaker 7: that he may have actually taken this subway from the

547
00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:41,480
Speaker 7: Upper west Side to Midtown and to that Starbucks.

548
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:44,840
Speaker 2: Wait then, if he was on the Upper west Side,

549
00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:50,680
Speaker 2: then he spotted at a housing project. There's not a

550
00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:53,800
Speaker 2: housing project on the Upper west Side. Okay, that's where

551
00:29:53,800 --> 00:29:56,120
Speaker 2: all the rich people live. To look down on Central Park,

552
00:29:56,560 --> 00:29:58,840
Speaker 2: there's not a housing project there. So does he leave

553
00:29:58,880 --> 00:30:01,240
Speaker 2: the Upper West to go to a housing project to

554
00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:04,000
Speaker 2: be spotted and then go to the Starbucks?

555
00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:06,200
Speaker 7: Well, that's what police are trying to figure out, and

556
00:30:06,320 --> 00:30:09,000
Speaker 7: I didn't. Well, I'm hoping that he did take the

557
00:30:09,080 --> 00:30:11,200
Speaker 7: subway because Mayor Eric Adams.

558
00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:13,640
Speaker 1: Did implement more cameras earlier this year.

559
00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:16,120
Speaker 2: Okay, I got a lot of surveillance on this guy,

560
00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:20,000
Speaker 2: but you're right, subway would help me figure out where

561
00:30:20,040 --> 00:30:23,480
Speaker 2: he's coming from, where he's going, and how he knows

562
00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:24,160
Speaker 2: those paths.

563
00:30:25,120 --> 00:30:28,239
Speaker 1: I'm still flummoxed.

564
00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:31,360
Speaker 2: By the fact that he would leave a water bottle

565
00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:35,360
Speaker 2: with his DNA on it, a candy wrapper, take a bike,

566
00:30:36,080 --> 00:30:41,440
Speaker 2: no gloves, has a pretend pro shooter stance, and has

567
00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:44,720
Speaker 2: engraved bullets. For Pete's sake, why not just throw down

568
00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:48,760
Speaker 2: your driver's license before you leave. Okay, Now we hear

569
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:52,920
Speaker 2: about a potential eyewitness that goes.

570
00:30:53,000 --> 00:30:53,960
Speaker 1: On the run.

571
00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:56,720
Speaker 16: Police still have not identified the eyewitness who ran from

572
00:30:56,720 --> 00:30:59,200
Speaker 16: the scene. Is Thompson was gunned down. A woman dressed

573
00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:01,360
Speaker 16: in dark clothing and holding a coffee cup with standing

574
00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:03,800
Speaker 16: in the doorway just feet away from Thompson when the

575
00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:06,480
Speaker 16: shooter open fire. She runs along the building toward the

576
00:31:06,520 --> 00:31:09,960
Speaker 16: shooter to avoid the gunfire and disappears from frame. Authorities

577
00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:12,400
Speaker 16: are asking her to come forward, hoping she may be

578
00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:14,400
Speaker 16: able to provide new details on the shooter.

579
00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:17,160
Speaker 6: As a cell phone recovered in the alleyway. We're working

580
00:31:17,240 --> 00:31:18,040
Speaker 6: through that cell phone.

581
00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:20,600
Speaker 5: Obviously, we'll be processing it forensically at as far as

582
00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:23,400
Speaker 5: words being exchanged. We do not have audio of the incident.

583
00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:27,120
Speaker 5: We only have the regular video. Nothing for well, there's

584
00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:28,960
Speaker 5: one witness standing right next to the victim when he

585
00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:31,920
Speaker 5: was shot. We're still trying to identify that victim. Excuse me,

586
00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:32,840
Speaker 5: excuse me, that witness.

587
00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:36,320
Speaker 2: And we also learn that law enforcement has turned their

588
00:31:36,360 --> 00:31:40,200
Speaker 2: attention back home to Minnesota once again.

589
00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:41,959
Speaker 6: We're looking at everything.

590
00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:45,240
Speaker 5: We're looking at his social media, we are interviewing employees,

591
00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:47,760
Speaker 5: we are interviewing family members. We will be speaking to

592
00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:49,600
Speaker 5: law enforcement in Minnesota.

593
00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:56,000
Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace.

594
00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:04,520
Speaker 2: The alleged escape plot just one day, twenty four hours

595
00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:07,840
Speaker 2: before me Andngoni, do you back in court where the

596
00:32:08,080 --> 00:32:13,960
Speaker 2: judge believe it or not, kicked out the charge that

597
00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:20,040
Speaker 2: could have resulted in the death penalty. After United Healthcare ceo,

598
00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:24,960
Speaker 2: husband and father Brian Thompson was murdered in.

599
00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:28,680
Speaker 17: A stunning federal court SmackDown that has sent shock waves

600
00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:32,640
Speaker 17: through the Department of Justice. The Ivy League educated tech

601
00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:38,080
Speaker 17: worker accused of executing United Healthcare CEO Brian Thompson has

602
00:32:38,360 --> 00:32:44,040
Speaker 17: officially escaped the threat of the death penalty. US District

603
00:32:44,160 --> 00:32:49,240
Speaker 17: Judge Margaret Garnett delivered the massive blow to federal prosecutors Friday,

604
00:32:49,840 --> 00:32:53,440
Speaker 17: gutting the capital charges against twenty seven year old Luigi

605
00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:58,320
Speaker 17: Mangioni just minutes before he appeared in a Manhattan court room.

606
00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:02,920
Speaker 17: His attorney, or An Agnifilow, hailed the decision and spoke

607
00:33:02,960 --> 00:33:05,200
Speaker 17: to reporters outside the courthouse.

608
00:33:06,200 --> 00:33:10,200
Speaker 18: Just wanted to thank the court for this incredible decision.

609
00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:12,960
Speaker 18: We want to thank this amazing legal team that we

610
00:33:13,120 --> 00:33:17,440
Speaker 18: have here. It's really wonderful. All of them, and thank

611
00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:20,479
Speaker 18: all the people who come out stand here in the cold,

612
00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:21,880
Speaker 18: and the people who can't come here.

613
00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:22,840
Speaker 1: All the supporters.

614
00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:25,680
Speaker 18: We get your letters, we get your emails, and we

615
00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:27,560
Speaker 18: really appreciate all the support.

616
00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:30,440
Speaker 6: Karen, what was mister Mantioni's reaction when you learned the

617
00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:31,960
Speaker 6: death penalty was off the table.

618
00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:33,440
Speaker 18: We're all very relieved.

619
00:33:33,680 --> 00:33:37,720
Speaker 17: The decision effectively newters Attorney General Pam Bonnie's push for

620
00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:42,800
Speaker 17: execution in a case the government branded a quote premeditated

621
00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:48,120
Speaker 17: cold blooded assassination end quote. Judge Garnett dismissed two counts

622
00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:51,800
Speaker 17: of murder through use of a firearm, ruling that the

623
00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:57,160
Speaker 17: underlying charge of interstate stalking does not meet the strict

624
00:33:57,360 --> 00:34:01,320
Speaker 17: legal definition of a prime of violence required to support

625
00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:06,240
Speaker 17: a capital conviction. While Garnet acknowledged the ruling might strike

626
00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:09,920
Speaker 17: the public as quote unquote tortured and strange given the

627
00:34:10,040 --> 00:34:13,960
Speaker 17: high profile nature of the slang, she insisted that quote

628
00:34:14,280 --> 00:34:18,840
Speaker 17: the law must be the court's only concern end quote. Mangioni,

629
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:23,160
Speaker 17: dressed in tanjail scrubs and shackled at the feet, showed

630
00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:28,200
Speaker 17: little emotion as the execution bid was dismantled. However, the

631
00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:31,320
Speaker 17: ruling was not a total wash for the government. In

632
00:34:31,440 --> 00:34:34,879
Speaker 17: a critical win for the Feds, the judge shot down

633
00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:39,880
Speaker 17: claims that a bungled investigation tainted the arrest. Garnett ruled

634
00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:44,880
Speaker 17: the mountain of evidence pulled from Mangioni's backpack, including the

635
00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:48,920
Speaker 17: three D printed pistol, a loaded clip, and a macabre

636
00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:54,400
Speaker 17: so called survival kit, is fully admissible at trial. Prosecutors

637
00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:58,600
Speaker 17: can also use the defendant's own notebook, which allegedly contained

638
00:34:58,640 --> 00:35:02,759
Speaker 17: a chilling manifesto and plans to quote unquote whack the

639
00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:07,200
Speaker 17: insurance big wig. The search was deemed legal under Pennsylvania's

640
00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:13,040
Speaker 17: inventory protocols, despite Mangioni's defense team arguing the warrantless search

641
00:35:13,239 --> 00:35:17,400
Speaker 17: was a quote unquote legal quagmire. While federal prosecutors have

642
00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:20,759
Speaker 17: yet to announce an appeal, Mangioni's federal trial is now

643
00:35:20,920 --> 00:35:25,080
Speaker 17: tentatively set for September eighth. He remains held without bail

644
00:35:25,200 --> 00:35:29,120
Speaker 17: at the Metropolitan Detention Center in Brooklyn, now facing a

645
00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:32,880
Speaker 17: maximum of life behind bars rather than a date with

646
00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:37,960
Speaker 17: the needle. Meanwhile, the Manhattan DA is still aggressively pushing

647
00:35:38,080 --> 00:35:41,400
Speaker 17: for a state murder trial to begin as early as

648
00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:42,480
Speaker 17: July First, you.

649
00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:46,840
Speaker 2: Heard right, Luigi Mangioni, as of right now will not

650
00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:54,480
Speaker 2: face the death penalty. Judge Margaret Garnett ruled against prosecutors

651
00:35:54,520 --> 00:35:58,359
Speaker 2: seeking the death penalty, and word to the wise prosecution team,

652
00:35:59,000 --> 00:36:01,120
Speaker 2: you need to take the jail. Judge is ruling up

653
00:36:01,320 --> 00:36:05,880
Speaker 2: on immediate appeal. I've done it myself when I got

654
00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:08,120
Speaker 2: a bad evidentiary ruling at trial.

655
00:36:08,760 --> 00:36:11,960
Speaker 1: I would say, Judge, we need a recess.

656
00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:18,520
Speaker 2: I'm taking this up on immediate appeal, which means I

657
00:36:18,560 --> 00:36:20,799
Speaker 2: want to have somebody in the appellate division type out

658
00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:23,480
Speaker 2: an appeal of the judge's bad ruling and walk it

659
00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:25,600
Speaker 2: right up the street to the Court of Appeals.

660
00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:29,799
Speaker 1: It's like three blocks. I would not take that lying down,

661
00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:35,800
Speaker 1: not with facts like these. What happened to Brian Thompson

662
00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:36,359
Speaker 1: Number one?

663
00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:38,040
Speaker 6: What is the address of your emergency?

664
00:36:38,480 --> 00:36:39,839
Speaker 1: That's not really an emergency.

665
00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:43,799
Speaker 19: I don't I have the customer here that some other

666
00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:44,719
Speaker 19: customers were.

667
00:36:44,680 --> 00:36:45,560
Speaker 14: Suspensions of that.

668
00:36:45,680 --> 00:36:48,680
Speaker 6: He looks like the CEO shooter from York.

669
00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:49,720
Speaker 5: Okay.

670
00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:55,359
Speaker 2: Straight out to Kila Brantley, joining US investigative reporter at

671
00:36:55,400 --> 00:36:59,960
Speaker 2: large dailymail dot Com. Did they actually say in court

672
00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:04,279
Speaker 2: that their client Luigi Angioni is the victim because his

673
00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:08,600
Speaker 2: quote beautiful promising life has been derailed.

674
00:37:09,320 --> 00:37:12,400
Speaker 20: Yeah, Nancy, As you mentioned, his team did paint him

675
00:37:12,520 --> 00:37:15,200
Speaker 20: as someone with a promising future. Now, one thing that

676
00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:20,319
Speaker 20: had been documented was that Luigi suffered from debilitating back pain.

677
00:37:20,440 --> 00:37:22,680
Speaker 20: This was something that he went through. He went through

678
00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:25,600
Speaker 20: back surgery. And one thing that they say here is

679
00:37:25,719 --> 00:37:29,840
Speaker 20: that the real enemy here is the medical system, and

680
00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:33,160
Speaker 20: that is one thing that you can definitely expect.

681
00:37:33,239 --> 00:37:34,920
Speaker 1: His legal team argue.

682
00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:39,000
Speaker 2: Right, Kila, can I believe you are my lieon eyes

683
00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:43,600
Speaker 2: control room? Please show me him a running along the

684
00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:47,359
Speaker 2: beach in Hawaii. I've got videos of him lifting up

685
00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:48,719
Speaker 2: girls and tickling them.

686
00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:50,240
Speaker 1: It's a video.

687
00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:55,120
Speaker 2: They're all giggling hysterically, including him. I've got photos of

688
00:37:55,160 --> 00:37:57,560
Speaker 2: him lounging by the beach. I'd love to see those

689
00:37:57,640 --> 00:38:02,040
Speaker 2: photos of him hiking and to be a jungle rainfall. Oh,

690
00:38:02,560 --> 00:38:05,600
Speaker 2: he is feeling no pain there, Cali Brantley, I hope

691
00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:08,160
Speaker 2: you don't fall for that hook like and seeker. Doctor

692
00:38:08,200 --> 00:38:12,240
Speaker 2: Judy Hoe, did you know that Luigimi Andngioni is apparently

693
00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:15,600
Speaker 2: the victim in this scenario. Doctor Judy Hoe is joining

694
00:38:15,680 --> 00:38:19,920
Speaker 2: US Clinical Forensic neuro psychologist, author of the New Rules

695
00:38:20,080 --> 00:38:25,400
Speaker 2: of Attachment and another bestseller, Stop Self Sabotage. You need

696
00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:27,919
Speaker 2: to write one, doctor Judy Hoe, about try to tell

697
00:38:28,040 --> 00:38:31,040
Speaker 2: the truth and then send it. You know, I'll pay

698
00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:33,640
Speaker 2: for it and we can send it to Luigimanngioni. He

699
00:38:34,040 --> 00:38:37,360
Speaker 2: is not the victim here. But you know you can't

700
00:38:37,520 --> 00:38:42,160
Speaker 2: count out the defense attorney Agnafello. He got Sean Combs

701
00:38:42,239 --> 00:38:47,360
Speaker 2: off on the major accusations in that indictment. So no

702
00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:51,360
Speaker 2: matter how ridiculous I may think he sounds, he essentially

703
00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:56,680
Speaker 2: won that case. Yes, his defense team that claims Luigimngioni

704
00:38:56,800 --> 00:38:57,400
Speaker 2: is the victim.

705
00:38:57,440 --> 00:38:59,480
Speaker 1: I want to read it, doctor Judy Hope.

706
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:04,920
Speaker 2: Beautiful promising life derailed by those irritating murder charges.

707
00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:11,200
Speaker 21: Judy, Wow, beautiful promising life, Nancy, what a narrative. And

708
00:39:11,360 --> 00:39:13,480
Speaker 21: as you said, even though he's not the victim.

709
00:39:13,520 --> 00:39:15,719
Speaker 22: I think this is why there has been a fan

710
00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:19,279
Speaker 22: base though, because there's these individuals who actually believe maybe

711
00:39:19,520 --> 00:39:22,479
Speaker 22: he is a victim, that he's some type of anti heroo,

712
00:39:23,000 --> 00:39:27,600
Speaker 22: that he's misunderstood. And oftentimes we see this in individuals

713
00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:32,480
Speaker 22: who might act charismatically, they just seem to pull people

714
00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:35,600
Speaker 22: in and it's weird because a lot of these people

715
00:39:35,640 --> 00:39:40,640
Speaker 22: who develop this sort of fan fanhood around Luigi, they're

716
00:39:40,719 --> 00:39:42,760
Speaker 22: kind of thinking, well, maybe I can be a special

717
00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:45,800
Speaker 22: person in his life, maybe he'll pay attention to me.

718
00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:48,600
Speaker 1: Maybe I can even develop a friendship with this person.

719
00:39:48,719 --> 00:39:50,320
Speaker 23: This person might learn to trust me.

720
00:39:50,640 --> 00:39:52,759
Speaker 22: It's really interesting, but some of it actually has to

721
00:39:52,840 --> 00:39:56,000
Speaker 22: do with a self centeredness of people who might actually

722
00:39:56,160 --> 00:39:56,920
Speaker 22: talk to him.

723
00:39:56,960 --> 00:39:59,080
Speaker 23: That they're hoping to get something special out.

724
00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:02,799
Speaker 1: Of it for themselves. I'm sorry, Judy Hoe.

725
00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:06,719
Speaker 2: I know you're the clinical and forensic neuropsychologist, but I

726
00:40:06,760 --> 00:40:09,440
Speaker 2: don't even know what you just said. How can the

727
00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:14,239
Speaker 2: defense stand up and say this is not about the

728
00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:21,520
Speaker 2: murder victim. Can we show, please, Brian Thompson walking along

729
00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:24,359
Speaker 2: and he's gunned down in cold blood, leaving behind two

730
00:40:24,480 --> 00:40:25,240
Speaker 2: sons and a wife.

731
00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:27,560
Speaker 1: That's the victim.

732
00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:32,800
Speaker 2: According to prosecutors, it's Luigi Mangioni holding a three D

733
00:40:33,000 --> 00:40:36,560
Speaker 2: weapon that he made that it took dozens and dozens

734
00:40:36,640 --> 00:40:38,680
Speaker 2: of hours to make, so he can gun down a

735
00:40:38,719 --> 00:40:45,120
Speaker 2: guy walking to work in the back. You stated, I

736
00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:47,759
Speaker 2: don't know what that was, darter, Judy Hoe, I'm not

737
00:40:47,880 --> 00:40:51,200
Speaker 2: saying you're wrong I'm just saying, I'm just a trial lawyer.

738
00:40:51,440 --> 00:40:53,960
Speaker 2: Didn't understand it, but I think I know some of

739
00:40:54,040 --> 00:40:58,920
Speaker 2: the people that consider Luigi Mangioni to be the victim.

740
00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:04,239
Speaker 1: And here they are filing in to court. Okay, oh

741
00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:11,719
Speaker 1: what Luigi fights fascists. Okay, look at this line.

742
00:41:11,800 --> 00:41:15,920
Speaker 2: Now, wait till you see the cat walk parade of

743
00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:20,600
Speaker 2: sad sack women filing.

744
00:41:20,280 --> 00:41:23,239
Speaker 1: In to They won't even show their face to get

745
00:41:23,280 --> 00:41:28,360
Speaker 1: a glimpse of Luigi Mangioni. Yes, keep it.

746
00:41:28,480 --> 00:41:36,480
Speaker 2: Going, Keep it going, because I've got hours of people. Yeah,

747
00:41:36,560 --> 00:41:39,759
Speaker 2: that was totally walking the cat walk right there, clamoring

748
00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:43,719
Speaker 2: to get in to just bask in the glow of

749
00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:45,080
Speaker 2: Luigi Mangioni.

750
00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:49,560
Speaker 1: Oh it keeps going. Yeah, on and on. They had

751
00:41:49,640 --> 00:41:55,120
Speaker 1: to turn women away, and it's not just women. Listen.

752
00:41:55,800 --> 00:41:57,840
Speaker 11: So this is who police believe was responsible for the

753
00:41:57,960 --> 00:42:02,920
Speaker 11: United Healthcare CEO Pepew. His name's Luigi. All I can

754
00:42:03,080 --> 00:42:07,200
Speaker 11: say is, mamma, does he need a Mario? I believe

755
00:42:07,239 --> 00:42:10,040
Speaker 11: it was a great philosopher and poet once said, Mama,

756
00:42:10,120 --> 00:42:12,719
Speaker 11: I'm in love with a criminal, and this type of

757
00:42:12,800 --> 00:42:17,920
Speaker 11: love isn't rational, it's physical. That was Britney spears, and

758
00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:19,840
Speaker 11: I believe we're all feeling that right now. I believe,

759
00:42:19,960 --> 00:42:21,719
Speaker 11: if you're going to do superhero like shit, you better

760
00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:24,920
Speaker 11: look like one. Okay, this man clearly did that. Did

761
00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:26,960
Speaker 11: he train at the Marvel Studios with all the other

762
00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:31,120
Speaker 11: chriss Okay? Because Luigi, that's a spicey meet the ball.

763
00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:33,080
Speaker 11: I'm so sorry. I believe if we're going to claim

764
00:42:33,120 --> 00:42:34,919
Speaker 11: to be a Christian nation, that we need to act

765
00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:39,000
Speaker 11: like one. And part of acting like that is practicing forgiveness.

766
00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:42,440
Speaker 11: And after a lot of seconds of thinking, I have

767
00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:46,920
Speaker 11: decided I'm gonna forgive him. I'm ready to forgive him right,

768
00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:50,200
Speaker 11: but not forget, because my god, how could you forget

769
00:42:50,239 --> 00:42:52,000
Speaker 11: an angel like this. I'm not gonna lie for a while.

770
00:42:52,000 --> 00:42:53,560
Speaker 11: I thought, oh my god, we're never going to find him,

771
00:42:53,800 --> 00:42:56,239
Speaker 11: you know. And I was wrong, because somewhere along the

772
00:42:56,320 --> 00:42:58,600
Speaker 11: way the ups and downs, the highs and lows, the

773
00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:03,200
Speaker 11: masks and no man asks, this man he found a

774
00:43:03,239 --> 00:43:05,480
Speaker 11: way into our hearts.

775
00:43:07,040 --> 00:43:07,359
Speaker 14: He did.

776
00:43:08,320 --> 00:43:11,520
Speaker 2: I hardly even know where to start with that. That

777
00:43:11,680 --> 00:43:16,200
Speaker 2: is from mister Williams. Spreck on TikTok. I'm in love

778
00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:20,120
Speaker 2: with the criminal, and I forgive him after a few

779
00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:27,719
Speaker 2: seconds of consideration, Doctor gudy hoe it, I can't say

780
00:43:27,719 --> 00:43:29,799
Speaker 2: it gets worse, but there's more.

781
00:43:30,200 --> 00:43:37,840
Speaker 1: Listen, you can't take my mind and say there's blood

782
00:43:37,960 --> 00:43:44,520
Speaker 1: on his head when you're the one with the girl

783
00:43:47,600 --> 00:43:55,520
Speaker 1: who's taking lives for fun, you can't take my man.

784
00:43:55,880 --> 00:43:59,880
Speaker 2: That's from Scarlett Park TikTok. So it's gone beyond call

785
00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:06,480
Speaker 2: and a spicy meatball. These people actually consider Luigimi.

786
00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:09,920
Speaker 1: And Gioni their man, and they are angry with the

787
00:44:09,960 --> 00:44:10,960
Speaker 1: fans for prosecuting.

788
00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:15,040
Speaker 2: What have I gone down the rabbit hole? Am I

789
00:44:15,239 --> 00:44:20,000
Speaker 2: in some crazy bizarre alice in Wonderland? What is happening,

790
00:44:20,120 --> 00:44:20,800
Speaker 2: doctor gudi Ho.

791
00:44:22,360 --> 00:44:26,239
Speaker 21: I know it seems completely unbelievable, Nancy, but this does happen.

792
00:44:26,320 --> 00:44:31,960
Speaker 22: People start to idolize these potential I mean, clearly this

793
00:44:32,080 --> 00:44:34,640
Speaker 22: is a defendant, right, but they're thinking in their minds,

794
00:44:35,000 --> 00:44:36,080
Speaker 22: this person is innocent.

795
00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:39,080
Speaker 23: Maybe I'm going to be their special person. And they're

796
00:44:39,160 --> 00:44:41,279
Speaker 23: lusting after them the way that they would lust after

797
00:44:41,440 --> 00:44:45,320
Speaker 23: a celebrity, especially when they see photos and videos that

798
00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:48,080
Speaker 23: they can start cutting into their own social media. They're

799
00:44:48,120 --> 00:44:52,520
Speaker 23: developing a fictionalized relationship with him, a fantasy and essentially

800
00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:56,000
Speaker 23: completely erasing all of the facts that have been evident

801
00:44:56,040 --> 00:44:59,200
Speaker 23: in this case, and clearly the defendant's attorneys are trying

802
00:44:59,200 --> 00:45:01,239
Speaker 23: to paint that picture while leaning into it as hard

803
00:45:01,239 --> 00:45:04,240
Speaker 23: as possible, because they're hoping to influence the public opinion

804
00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:07,560
Speaker 23: even before a jury is selected, so that they can

805
00:45:07,640 --> 00:45:10,840
Speaker 23: hopefully get him the outcome that he wants, which.

806
00:45:10,760 --> 00:45:15,520
Speaker 21: Is apparently to escape a death sentence, escape prison. Maybe

807
00:45:15,960 --> 00:45:18,200
Speaker 21: I'm not sure exactly what they think is possible, but

808
00:45:18,280 --> 00:45:21,480
Speaker 21: that's what's so scary about all the positivity that has

809
00:45:21,560 --> 00:45:25,120
Speaker 21: developed around his persona in terms of all of these illustrations,

810
00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:27,719
Speaker 21: the website they set up about and it's really concerning.

811
00:45:28,360 --> 00:45:31,200
Speaker 1: And you know, Cheryl McCollum is joining me. Cold Case

812
00:45:31,200 --> 00:45:33,120
Speaker 1: Investigative Research Institute.

813
00:45:32,760 --> 00:45:36,359
Speaker 2: Founder, author of a brand new book, Swans Don't Swim

814
00:45:36,520 --> 00:45:39,720
Speaker 2: in a Sewer, Solving the Cold Case of the Flint

815
00:45:39,960 --> 00:45:46,680
Speaker 2: River Killer's Daughter on Amazon. Cheryl, Okay, do you remember

816
00:45:46,719 --> 00:45:50,000
Speaker 2: the night that you and I were out until two

817
00:45:50,040 --> 00:45:52,960
Speaker 2: o'clock in the morning staking out a location where we

818
00:45:53,160 --> 00:45:56,640
Speaker 2: thought Luigi Mangioni was going to be apprehended.

819
00:45:56,680 --> 00:45:58,880
Speaker 1: Do you remember that night? Because I sure do I do.

820
00:45:59,480 --> 00:46:04,760
Speaker 1: How has this gotten so Bass Awkwards Chryl Nancy.

821
00:46:04,880 --> 00:46:09,240
Speaker 19: It is mind boggling that anybody is trying to paint

822
00:46:09,520 --> 00:46:14,320
Speaker 19: this killer as the victim. I mean, the victim's life

823
00:46:15,160 --> 00:46:18,759
Speaker 19: was not just promising. It was in full swing. He

824
00:46:18,920 --> 00:46:22,840
Speaker 19: had a wife and children and a career at the

825
00:46:22,920 --> 00:46:28,239
Speaker 19: highest level. He had friends and extended family. He had

826
00:46:28,560 --> 00:46:33,960
Speaker 19: everything going for him. Mangione had none of that. But

827
00:46:34,160 --> 00:46:38,920
Speaker 19: he took everything from those children. And I'm going to

828
00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:42,600
Speaker 19: tell you something, when you look at the people that

829
00:46:42,680 --> 00:46:47,680
Speaker 19: are contacting him, I hope and pray that those six

830
00:46:47,880 --> 00:46:51,120
Speaker 19: thousand letters that he's gotten, that one hundred and fifteen

831
00:46:51,239 --> 00:46:54,239
Speaker 19: a day, that there's some good intel in there too,

832
00:46:55,000 --> 00:47:00,160
Speaker 19: because he is writing people back, so he's communicating, and

833
00:47:00,280 --> 00:47:01,960
Speaker 19: I hope they're less than every.

834
00:47:01,920 --> 00:47:02,480
Speaker 1: Piece of it.

835
00:47:03,200 --> 00:47:06,919
Speaker 2: Somehow this has gotten topsy turvy upside down. I haven't

836
00:47:06,920 --> 00:47:10,240
Speaker 2: even gotten into the legal implications of what is happening

837
00:47:10,520 --> 00:47:11,000
Speaker 2: in court.

838
00:47:11,600 --> 00:47:15,840
Speaker 1: I'm just so concerned that one of these nutjobs is

839
00:47:15,960 --> 00:47:20,160
Speaker 1: going to end up on the ultimate jury and a quit.

840
00:47:20,320 --> 00:47:25,120
Speaker 2: Luigi Manngioni under the misconception that he is somehow the victim.

841
00:47:25,600 --> 00:47:32,680
Speaker 2: Again in court, his lawyers and unquoting claim that his beautiful,

842
00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:38,520
Speaker 2: promising life has been derailed by murder charges.

843
00:47:39,200 --> 00:47:42,320
Speaker 1: It's all about me, me, me, Me, me me.

844
00:47:42,760 --> 00:47:47,560
Speaker 2: This is a millionaire's son, multimillionaire who grew up with

845
00:47:48,000 --> 00:47:50,840
Speaker 2: silver spoon stuck in his mouth and has been living

846
00:47:51,600 --> 00:47:56,000
Speaker 2: in a Hawaii high rise on the beach doing nothing,

847
00:47:57,000 --> 00:48:00,960
Speaker 2: and yet he's the victim. Can you amat, just, Cheryl McCollum,

848
00:48:01,280 --> 00:48:04,720
Speaker 2: how hard Thompson had to work to get to become

849
00:48:04,880 --> 00:48:09,080
Speaker 2: the CEO at United Healthcare. It wasn't handed to him

850
00:48:09,120 --> 00:48:11,160
Speaker 2: on a silver platter on top of a Christmas tree

851
00:48:11,239 --> 00:48:12,360
Speaker 2: like it was Mangione.

852
00:48:12,719 --> 00:48:17,600
Speaker 1: He had to work and sacrifice long, long.

853
00:48:17,520 --> 00:48:20,080
Speaker 2: Hours to get to where he got to to be

854
00:48:20,280 --> 00:48:23,279
Speaker 2: gunned down like a dog on the sidewalk, Cheryl.

855
00:48:23,640 --> 00:48:27,320
Speaker 19: Nancy, you cannot compare these two people. That's why I

856
00:48:27,480 --> 00:48:30,719
Speaker 19: agree with you. This whole thing is upside down. Not

857
00:48:31,000 --> 00:48:35,720
Speaker 19: only did the victim work and sacrifice, so did his wife.

858
00:48:36,440 --> 00:48:38,920
Speaker 19: You know what it takes. You know how long David

859
00:48:38,960 --> 00:48:42,080
Speaker 19: has gone during the day. It's not an eight hour day,

860
00:48:42,520 --> 00:48:46,160
Speaker 19: it's a sixteen seventeen hour game. He was playing at

861
00:48:46,200 --> 00:48:48,759
Speaker 19: the top of his game. There's no doubt about it.

862
00:48:49,280 --> 00:48:54,040
Speaker 19: Mangione was giving nothing to a family. He was giving

863
00:48:54,200 --> 00:49:00,120
Speaker 19: nothing to society. He was contributing zero, and again, what

864
00:49:00,360 --> 00:49:03,200
Speaker 19: he took cannot even be measured.

865
00:49:03,600 --> 00:49:06,120
Speaker 2: If I hear one more person talk about his back pain,

866
00:49:06,239 --> 00:49:10,200
Speaker 2: that's you CALLI Brantley. I think my head's gonna blow

867
00:49:10,280 --> 00:49:13,840
Speaker 2: off because I have videos of him tickling these girls

868
00:49:13,920 --> 00:49:17,920
Speaker 2: and picking them up just before the shooting. I can't

869
00:49:18,040 --> 00:49:20,880
Speaker 2: show it because it has the girl's faces in it.

870
00:49:21,840 --> 00:49:28,200
Speaker 1: But he was feeling no pain. But it's all about me, me, me, me, me,

871
00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:31,600
Speaker 1: why me? And he's certainly not the first.

872
00:49:32,400 --> 00:49:34,959
Speaker 2: Let me refresh your recollection, as we say in court

873
00:49:35,160 --> 00:49:38,480
Speaker 2: with bride killer Jamie Lee Komarowski.

874
00:49:38,560 --> 00:49:39,040
Speaker 1: Listen to her.

875
00:49:40,280 --> 00:49:41,640
Speaker 14: I don't know why.

876
00:49:41,520 --> 00:49:45,840
Speaker 21: That's hard to happen to me, because bad things happen

877
00:49:45,960 --> 00:49:48,239
Speaker 21: to good people, Honey, that's why.

878
00:49:48,960 --> 00:49:50,920
Speaker 24: It's just it's just.

879
00:49:51,080 --> 00:49:52,440
Speaker 25: Something that happened to you.

880
00:49:53,600 --> 00:49:56,200
Speaker 22: And we are going to deal with the best.

881
00:49:56,040 --> 00:49:59,919
Speaker 2: Week, Okay, Dave Mac joining me crimes towards investigator, reporter.

882
00:50:00,360 --> 00:50:03,399
Speaker 2: You know who the bride killer is, right, Jamie Lee Komarowski.

883
00:50:04,280 --> 00:50:11,800
Speaker 1: She's guilty. She got totally thinking drunk and plowed into

884
00:50:12,280 --> 00:50:13,560
Speaker 1: a beautiful.

885
00:50:13,080 --> 00:50:17,440
Speaker 2: Bride, leaving her wedding reception with the groom and killed

886
00:50:17,440 --> 00:50:21,440
Speaker 2: her and there she is behind bars, going why is

887
00:50:21,560 --> 00:50:23,520
Speaker 2: this happening to me?

888
00:50:24,480 --> 00:50:27,440
Speaker 26: One look and listen to her father, Nancy.

889
00:50:27,760 --> 00:50:28,520
Speaker 1: What does he say?

890
00:50:29,120 --> 00:50:31,720
Speaker 26: Well, bad things happen to good people.

891
00:50:32,239 --> 00:50:32,960
Speaker 14: No they don't.

892
00:50:33,480 --> 00:50:37,480
Speaker 26: You just killed somebody because of your own actions. But see,

893
00:50:37,600 --> 00:50:39,839
Speaker 26: we've got a whole group of people now that never

894
00:50:39,920 --> 00:50:43,799
Speaker 26: want to admit they did anything wrong. Everything is on them.

895
00:50:44,360 --> 00:50:47,920
Speaker 26: How can you possibly think? Man Joni is sitting here

896
00:50:47,960 --> 00:50:51,040
Speaker 26: saying his life is derailed. Well, he destroyed another life

897
00:50:51,080 --> 00:50:53,880
Speaker 26: and another family. Kambarowski sitting in jail.

898
00:50:53,880 --> 00:50:54,960
Speaker 19: Why is this happening to me?

899
00:50:55,560 --> 00:50:55,719
Speaker 1: Well?

900
00:50:55,800 --> 00:50:56,200
Speaker 2: Why not?

901
00:50:56,440 --> 00:50:57,200
Speaker 26: What did you expect?

902
00:50:57,239 --> 00:50:57,840
Speaker 6: What happened?

903
00:50:58,280 --> 00:50:58,719
Speaker 1: Sick of this?

904
00:50:58,880 --> 00:50:59,960
Speaker 26: Nancy is getting really tough.

905
00:51:00,880 --> 00:51:05,240
Speaker 2: And there is her victim, Samantha Miller in her wedding dress,

906
00:51:05,520 --> 00:51:08,560
Speaker 2: just before she's mowed down dead by Jamie Lee Komrowski.

907
00:51:09,000 --> 00:51:11,600
Speaker 1: And here's I guess this would have to be the.

908
00:51:11,680 --> 00:51:16,680
Speaker 2: Miss Universe of Wyme Jody Arius check her out. She

909
00:51:17,160 --> 00:51:21,800
Speaker 2: is more concerned about her makeup as she is approaching

910
00:51:21,880 --> 00:51:25,120
Speaker 2: trial in the brutal stabbing and shooting death of her

911
00:51:25,160 --> 00:51:31,120
Speaker 2: fiance Travis Alexander, who was stabbed at least twenty nine times.

912
00:51:31,239 --> 00:51:33,520
Speaker 2: Joe Scott Morgan and I have argued about that. I

913
00:51:33,640 --> 00:51:38,000
Speaker 2: say it was more than that. Checking out, Jody Arius,

914
00:51:38,120 --> 00:51:40,080
Speaker 2: you should have at least done your makeup before you

915
00:51:40,239 --> 00:51:43,760
Speaker 2: speak to police about murdering your fiance when he broke

916
00:51:43,880 --> 00:51:47,920
Speaker 2: up and started seeing someone else. That earlier video from

917
00:51:47,920 --> 00:51:51,800
Speaker 2: forty eight hours Joe Scott Morgan, Professor forensics, do you

918
00:51:51,920 --> 00:51:56,760
Speaker 2: recall Travis Alexander's death? Hey, stay on that video because

919
00:51:57,000 --> 00:51:58,719
Speaker 2: is they're about to question her about what could have

920
00:51:58,719 --> 00:52:02,360
Speaker 2: happened to Travis Alexander. She starts singing and there you go,

921
00:52:02,719 --> 00:52:06,239
Speaker 2: does a headstand and bemoans the fact she doesn't have

922
00:52:06,360 --> 00:52:07,240
Speaker 2: on her lip gloss.

923
00:52:08,000 --> 00:52:10,880
Speaker 1: Talk about me, me, me, Joe Scott, what happened to Travis?

924
00:52:11,960 --> 00:52:17,720
Speaker 27: Yeah, he was brutally murdered, Nancy. She had him stripped down, nude,

925
00:52:18,239 --> 00:52:22,200
Speaker 27: taking a shower, taking dirty pictures, if you will, And

926
00:52:22,560 --> 00:52:24,960
Speaker 27: while his back is turned, she takes a knife and

927
00:52:25,120 --> 00:52:28,520
Speaker 27: plunges it into his back over and over and over again.

928
00:52:28,880 --> 00:52:31,960
Speaker 27: When he turns around to defend himself to try to

929
00:52:32,440 --> 00:52:36,800
Speaker 27: parry her stabs at him, he gets stabbed in the

930
00:52:36,880 --> 00:52:40,400
Speaker 27: chest as well. And if it wasn't enough, after he

931
00:52:40,520 --> 00:52:44,320
Speaker 27: spits up blood onto his stink, onto his sink. He

932
00:52:44,600 --> 00:52:47,880
Speaker 27: crawls tries to crawl away from her down the hallway.

933
00:52:48,560 --> 00:52:51,640
Speaker 27: She straddles him and cuts his throat from ear to

934
00:52:51,760 --> 00:52:55,600
Speaker 27: ear and the koupdi gras she shoots him after he

935
00:52:55,760 --> 00:52:59,400
Speaker 27: is dead. That's the kind of human that you're looking

936
00:52:59,480 --> 00:53:03,480
Speaker 27: at right here. She's absolutely disgusting and it's.

937
00:53:03,400 --> 00:53:07,759
Speaker 2: All about me, me, me, just Scott Morgan, you've seen

938
00:53:07,800 --> 00:53:09,200
Speaker 2: it all. I'm going to try to say, show you

939
00:53:09,280 --> 00:53:11,719
Speaker 2: something you haven't seen yet. Speaking of me, me, me,

940
00:53:12,560 --> 00:53:16,160
Speaker 2: and criminal defendants focusing only on themselves and not their victims.

941
00:53:16,520 --> 00:53:20,720
Speaker 2: There is the drunk, stinking, drunk a d a assistant

942
00:53:20,760 --> 00:53:27,560
Speaker 2: district's attorney, Devin Flanning, and listen to her, what.

943
00:53:27,600 --> 00:53:31,319
Speaker 1: The protocol is? Protocol as you to turn off the body?

944
00:53:31,360 --> 00:53:32,399
Speaker 14: Can you have to turn it off?

945
00:53:32,480 --> 00:53:34,560
Speaker 1: And that's your protocol, lawyer.

946
00:53:35,160 --> 00:53:38,080
Speaker 27: So she knows, well, that's lawyer sself. So that's not true.

947
00:53:38,280 --> 00:53:41,000
Speaker 1: So we got to go, no it is, that's that's law.

948
00:53:41,160 --> 00:53:42,960
Speaker 23: I'm an aging, I'm an aging.

949
00:53:43,239 --> 00:53:43,600
Speaker 1: Good for you.

950
00:53:44,480 --> 00:53:44,719
Speaker 14: Let's go.

951
00:53:45,080 --> 00:53:47,480
Speaker 2: Those two were kicked out of I think it was

952
00:53:47,560 --> 00:53:51,839
Speaker 2: a bar for being drunk and belligerent. Then you've got

953
00:53:51,920 --> 00:53:54,880
Speaker 2: oh gosh, she's been called the screaming bands and do

954
00:53:54,960 --> 00:53:57,200
Speaker 2: you hear going I'm an a da, I'm an a da.

955
00:53:57,320 --> 00:54:00,600
Speaker 1: Every sin it starts with I. I I listen to

956
00:54:00,680 --> 00:54:04,200
Speaker 1: this woman, just gott he needs to not touch me

957
00:54:04,600 --> 00:54:06,320
Speaker 1: and he wants to call a salt.

958
00:54:06,880 --> 00:54:09,000
Speaker 19: We're gonna go through that row.

959
00:54:10,040 --> 00:54:13,000
Speaker 1: No, he wants to go through assault. No, we're not

960
00:54:13,160 --> 00:54:17,759
Speaker 1: doing that. Then no, he he claims I assaulted him. No,

961
00:54:18,040 --> 00:54:20,279
Speaker 1: we're not doing that. We're not doing that.

962
00:54:20,480 --> 00:54:25,440
Speaker 2: And then, of course maybe this one beats Jody Arius. No, no, no,

963
00:54:25,560 --> 00:54:27,680
Speaker 2: I'm gonna have to go with Luigi Mangioni and his

964
00:54:27,840 --> 00:54:31,960
Speaker 2: beautiful life. Dearield, I'm sure you recall Shana Keebers that

965
00:54:32,160 --> 00:54:37,360
Speaker 2: gave her ex boyfriend the quote nosejop he always wanted

966
00:54:37,600 --> 00:54:38,920
Speaker 2: with a handgun.

967
00:54:39,840 --> 00:54:41,399
Speaker 1: Listen, Scarry Vain.

968
00:54:42,520 --> 00:54:44,719
Speaker 24: One of our last conversations we had that was good

969
00:54:44,920 --> 00:54:46,600
Speaker 24: was sitting once my best friend of the dinist to

970
00:54:46,640 --> 00:54:49,879
Speaker 24: do with the near and wants to get a nose job.

971
00:54:50,320 --> 00:54:51,160
Speaker 8: Just that kind of person.

972
00:54:51,239 --> 00:54:54,279
Speaker 2: And I'm right here, I gave him his nose job.

973
00:54:54,520 --> 00:54:55,319
Speaker 1: He wanted.

974
00:54:57,040 --> 00:55:04,799
Speaker 11: Want to marry me if I kill my boyfriend, I'm not.

975
00:55:08,520 --> 00:55:08,680
Speaker 1: You know.

976
00:55:08,920 --> 00:55:13,400
Speaker 2: Joe Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics, and death investigator. Your forte

977
00:55:14,040 --> 00:55:18,160
Speaker 2: is dead bodies and causes of death and modes of death.

978
00:55:18,640 --> 00:55:21,160
Speaker 1: Let me go to special guests.

979
00:55:21,040 --> 00:55:26,319
Speaker 2: Joining us now, Doctor Angela Arnold, renowned psychiatrist joining us

980
00:55:26,400 --> 00:55:27,759
Speaker 2: out of the Atlanta jurisdiction.

981
00:55:28,080 --> 00:55:30,480
Speaker 1: Doctor Angie Arnold, what is that?

982
00:55:31,239 --> 00:55:33,880
Speaker 2: I don't know if you saw this for yourself, but

983
00:55:34,000 --> 00:55:35,920
Speaker 2: me Andngioni's defensive team is actually.

984
00:55:35,760 --> 00:55:39,520
Speaker 1: Arguing his life was derailed by the murder charges.

985
00:55:40,200 --> 00:55:43,399
Speaker 28: You know, Nancy, My thought is that's all they've got.

986
00:55:43,960 --> 00:55:47,960
Speaker 28: Who cares if his life was derailed. He is accused

987
00:55:48,760 --> 00:55:53,680
Speaker 28: of murdering someone. Maybe his life should be derailed. But

988
00:55:53,760 --> 00:55:56,319
Speaker 28: the way I feel about this is, Nancy, that's all

989
00:55:56,360 --> 00:55:59,239
Speaker 28: they've got to say. That is the only thing they've got.

990
00:56:00,040 --> 00:56:02,480
Speaker 1: Let's talk about the facts and the law.

991
00:56:02,640 --> 00:56:05,719
Speaker 16: Listen taking orders as she tells the operator, I have

992
00:56:05,760 --> 00:56:09,200
Speaker 16: a customer here that some other customers were suspicious of that.

993
00:56:09,600 --> 00:56:12,400
Speaker 16: He looks like the CEO shooter in New York, and

994
00:56:12,760 --> 00:56:15,120
Speaker 16: they're generally upset and come to me, and I'm like,

995
00:56:15,440 --> 00:56:18,799
Speaker 16: I can't approach him. The manager continues working and can

996
00:56:18,880 --> 00:56:22,000
Speaker 16: be heard talking about bagels, at one point shouting one

997
00:56:22,080 --> 00:56:24,520
Speaker 16: of them is no better. The nine one one operator

998
00:56:24,560 --> 00:56:27,360
Speaker 16: Emily States testifies about the call and is heard to

999
00:56:27,480 --> 00:56:30,399
Speaker 16: ask for a description, with the manager applying the only

1000
00:56:30,520 --> 00:56:32,719
Speaker 16: thing you can see is the eyebrows.

1001
00:56:33,360 --> 00:56:37,720
Speaker 2: Joining us is Skuy Lazarro. She's a veteran criminal defense attorney.

1002
00:56:37,960 --> 00:56:40,520
Speaker 2: She's practiced in both She's practiced in both state and

1003
00:56:40,800 --> 00:56:44,799
Speaker 2: federal court. She is with Ray, Quinny and Nebeker. Skuy,

1004
00:56:44,920 --> 00:56:47,640
Speaker 2: thank you for being with us. If the defense is

1005
00:56:48,000 --> 00:56:54,520
Speaker 2: arguing that Luigimi and Gioni was illegally arrested, the nine

1006
00:56:54,560 --> 00:57:00,040
Speaker 2: to one one call occurred before the arrest, so it

1007
00:57:00,080 --> 00:57:03,600
Speaker 2: could be the possible grounds for suppressing that call by

1008
00:57:03,640 --> 00:57:04,760
Speaker 2: the McDonald's manager.

1009
00:57:05,600 --> 00:57:07,520
Speaker 25: I think they're going to have a really hard time

1010
00:57:07,640 --> 00:57:09,080
Speaker 25: keeping the nine to one one call out.

1011
00:57:09,239 --> 00:57:10,719
Speaker 1: I can understand it.

1012
00:57:10,719 --> 00:57:11,920
Speaker 24: From a defense perspective.

1013
00:57:11,960 --> 00:57:14,359
Speaker 25: You have to try, But when it comes to nine

1014
00:57:14,440 --> 00:57:16,200
Speaker 25: one one calls, as long as you can lay the

1015
00:57:16,280 --> 00:57:19,320
Speaker 25: foundation for it, it's probably coming in.

1016
00:57:20,160 --> 00:57:23,440
Speaker 2: I can tell you one thing I know, Sky Lazarro,

1017
00:57:23,680 --> 00:57:26,600
Speaker 2: that they hate about this nine to one one call.

1018
00:57:27,600 --> 00:57:32,400
Speaker 2: We had the same thing happen in the Idaho Slighings

1019
00:57:32,520 --> 00:57:38,320
Speaker 2: of four Beautiful Idaho University Students, where Dylan Mortenson described

1020
00:57:38,680 --> 00:57:41,640
Speaker 2: Brian Coberger's freaky bushy eyebrows.

1021
00:57:42,160 --> 00:57:42,440
Speaker 1: Listen.

1022
00:57:42,680 --> 00:57:46,520
Speaker 24: Just remember seeing this figure that was like not fat obviously,

1023
00:57:46,600 --> 00:57:49,640
Speaker 24: but more of like the skinnier tongue build and some

1024
00:57:49,840 --> 00:57:51,960
Speaker 24: mask on. I don't know what the mask exactly was,

1025
00:57:52,080 --> 00:57:54,000
Speaker 24: but when I thought about it, it was just like

1026
00:57:54,080 --> 00:57:56,000
Speaker 24: covering here and here. I don't know if it's covering

1027
00:57:56,040 --> 00:57:58,640
Speaker 24: his mouth his nose or below his mouth and nose.

1028
00:57:58,720 --> 00:58:01,480
Speaker 24: I just remember knowing that he was white, but I

1029
00:58:01,520 --> 00:58:03,240
Speaker 24: didn't know how he was white. I just knew he

1030
00:58:03,520 --> 00:58:06,439
Speaker 24: was and this knowing there's like I knew he looked

1031
00:58:06,440 --> 00:58:07,400
Speaker 24: at me because of a bushy eye.

1032
00:58:07,520 --> 00:58:08,080
Speaker 14: That's all I remember.

1033
00:58:08,960 --> 00:58:16,440
Speaker 2: Joining me is Tom Smith, former NYPD detective thirty years now,

1034
00:58:16,560 --> 00:58:21,520
Speaker 2: star of the gold Shields podcast, and he covered the

1035
00:58:21,680 --> 00:58:24,880
Speaker 2: very same streets where Brian Thompson was gunned down in

1036
00:58:25,040 --> 00:58:31,000
Speaker 2: cold Blood. You know, I have had a killer identified.

1037
00:58:31,240 --> 00:58:34,040
Speaker 2: He was a chef, by the way, identified by.

1038
00:58:33,960 --> 00:58:36,720
Speaker 1: A particular limp that he had.

1039
00:58:37,840 --> 00:58:43,280
Speaker 2: I've had a bank robber identified because he walked sleugh

1040
00:58:43,360 --> 00:58:46,360
Speaker 2: footed in other words, like a duck. They are all

1041
00:58:46,520 --> 00:58:50,160
Speaker 2: sorts of ways to identify someone. It can be by

1042
00:58:50,360 --> 00:58:55,000
Speaker 2: voice that it could be any number of things. In

1043
00:58:55,120 --> 00:59:01,040
Speaker 2: this case, the McDonald's manager said, bushy eyebrows, and there's.

1044
00:59:00,920 --> 00:59:04,920
Speaker 1: No doubt that's Luigi Mangioni. They hate it, they hate

1045
00:59:05,000 --> 00:59:06,160
Speaker 1: that identification.

1046
00:59:06,480 --> 00:59:10,480
Speaker 29: Tom, Yeah, they do, because, you know, it shows how

1047
00:59:10,600 --> 00:59:13,360
Speaker 29: important Nancy and we did this when we first started

1048
00:59:13,400 --> 00:59:17,480
Speaker 29: talking about this case, how important the videos and all

1049
00:59:17,520 --> 00:59:20,880
Speaker 29: the photos were to get out to the public, even

1050
00:59:20,920 --> 00:59:23,040
Speaker 29: if his face was covered, even if he was in

1051
00:59:23,120 --> 00:59:27,160
Speaker 29: a cab or whatever it was, because those eyebrows jumped

1052
00:59:27,240 --> 00:59:30,240
Speaker 29: off the page to everyone who looked at it. That

1053
00:59:30,400 --> 00:59:32,800
Speaker 29: was the number one thing that everyone looked at as

1054
00:59:32,920 --> 00:59:37,560
Speaker 29: a looking point and identification point when it came to him.

1055
00:59:37,880 --> 00:59:40,720
Speaker 29: And it just showed that the quicker they got those

1056
00:59:40,800 --> 00:59:42,960
Speaker 29: photos out, the better it was. In the end of this.

1057
00:59:43,720 --> 00:59:47,480
Speaker 2: You know, I'm very curious about this, the fact that

1058
00:59:47,680 --> 00:59:52,600
Speaker 2: he is identified at McDonald's by his eyebrows, among other things.

1059
00:59:52,960 --> 00:59:55,960
Speaker 2: Let's say the pictures of the McDonald's. There you go,

1060
00:59:56,120 --> 01:00:00,800
Speaker 2: there he is at McDonald's. But Skylasara, you think that

1061
01:00:00,920 --> 01:00:04,000
Speaker 2: the defense should be more concerned about the fact that

1062
01:00:04,120 --> 01:00:06,880
Speaker 2: he can be identified. At the time of the killing,

1063
01:00:07,920 --> 01:00:11,800
Speaker 2: he showed his face repeatedly. I agree with you.

1064
01:00:11,960 --> 01:00:13,800
Speaker 25: He probably should have been a little bit more careful

1065
01:00:13,840 --> 01:00:16,160
Speaker 25: at that time, and that should be the stuff they're

1066
01:00:16,160 --> 01:00:18,840
Speaker 25: seeking to exclude, and maybe they will, I think as

1067
01:00:18,880 --> 01:00:20,360
Speaker 25: it goes to the nine to one one call. The

1068
01:00:20,440 --> 01:00:25,760
Speaker 25: defenses probably only argument is that these are witnesses who

1069
01:00:25,840 --> 01:00:29,320
Speaker 25: identified him, not from the shooting. They weren't there that night,

1070
01:00:29,480 --> 01:00:32,160
Speaker 25: so they can't say I saw him do the shooting.

1071
01:00:32,720 --> 01:00:35,640
Speaker 25: They just want to exclude it because he's at the McDonald's.

1072
01:00:35,720 --> 01:00:38,280
Speaker 25: The problem is they get to the McDonald's and it

1073
01:00:38,360 --> 01:00:39,400
Speaker 25: turns out to be him.

1074
01:00:39,760 --> 01:00:43,880
Speaker 2: Speaking of getting to the McDonald's. The defense is arguing

1075
01:00:44,560 --> 01:00:48,520
Speaker 2: that while he wasn't really under arrest, he was kind

1076
01:00:48,640 --> 01:00:52,120
Speaker 2: of under arrest because so many police start of showing

1077
01:00:52,240 --> 01:00:55,600
Speaker 2: up and massing at the McDonald's. They were concerned, if

1078
01:00:55,680 --> 01:00:59,800
Speaker 2: this is Luigi Mangioni, the healthcare assassin, he's probably armed.

1079
01:01:00,000 --> 01:01:02,640
Speaker 1: As a matter of fact, he was. He was armed.

1080
01:01:02,640 --> 01:01:05,280
Speaker 2: There was a weapon in his backpack sitting right there

1081
01:01:05,520 --> 01:01:08,800
Speaker 2: with him, so they were right now. What the defense

1082
01:01:08,920 --> 01:01:12,800
Speaker 2: is arguing is that having multipolice, multiple police officers show

1083
01:01:12,920 --> 01:01:16,040
Speaker 2: up is tantamount equal to arresting him.

1084
01:01:16,520 --> 01:01:17,480
Speaker 1: Why do we care.

1085
01:01:17,760 --> 01:01:22,840
Speaker 2: Because police engage in a conversation with him to identify him,

1086
01:01:24,240 --> 01:01:26,680
Speaker 2: and he spilled a lot of information in that conversation.

1087
01:01:27,520 --> 01:01:29,840
Speaker 1: The state says it was before his arrest.

1088
01:01:31,080 --> 01:01:35,040
Speaker 2: Why does it matter, because a statement taken while you

1089
01:01:35,240 --> 01:01:41,720
Speaker 2: are in custody without miranda will be suppressed. So they

1090
01:01:41,800 --> 01:01:45,000
Speaker 2: want the judge to believe that because several police officers

1091
01:01:45,040 --> 01:01:48,560
Speaker 2: showed up at McDonald's, that me and Ngionie was effectively

1092
01:01:49,000 --> 01:01:53,400
Speaker 2: under arrest and any statements he made pre miranda should

1093
01:01:53,440 --> 01:01:57,479
Speaker 2: be suppressed. That's not going to happen. When I walk

1094
01:01:57,600 --> 01:02:01,560
Speaker 2: into Let's just pretend that Chipotele and all the Atlanta

1095
01:02:01,600 --> 01:02:04,479
Speaker 2: PD are in there getting a salad. I don't feel

1096
01:02:04,520 --> 01:02:07,200
Speaker 2: like I'm under arrest. Think about it.

1097
01:02:07,680 --> 01:02:11,880
Speaker 16: Listen, Mangoni stares at monitors showing his arrest at McDonald's.

1098
01:02:12,160 --> 01:02:15,480
Speaker 16: Majoni sits to eat breakfast. At nine oh three. Eleven

1099
01:02:15,520 --> 01:02:18,080
Speaker 16: minutes later, the nine one one call is made. Nine

1100
01:02:18,160 --> 01:02:21,240
Speaker 16: twenty eight two police officers show up and begin talking

1101
01:02:21,320 --> 01:02:24,520
Speaker 16: to Mangoni. The restaurant slowly begins to fill with police

1102
01:02:24,560 --> 01:02:27,640
Speaker 16: until nine forty two, when at least eight officers are

1103
01:02:27,720 --> 01:02:30,560
Speaker 16: visible on the recording. The defense claims packing the place

1104
01:02:30,640 --> 01:02:34,400
Speaker 16: with police amounts to unlawful attention. Prior to Mangonie's arrest.

1105
01:02:34,880 --> 01:02:38,520
Speaker 16: Agnifilo argues police surrounding Mangoni and the McDonald's this tantamount

1106
01:02:38,560 --> 01:02:42,480
Speaker 16: to illegally detaining the alleged killer. Agnifilo also takes exception

1107
01:02:42,760 --> 01:02:45,640
Speaker 16: with the way officers treated Mangoni's backpack during the arrest,

1108
01:02:45,760 --> 01:02:48,600
Speaker 16: claiming it was warrantlessly searched on the scene.

1109
01:02:49,320 --> 01:02:52,360
Speaker 1: In other words, they looked in his backpack. Cheryl McCollum

1110
01:02:52,600 --> 01:02:53,040
Speaker 1: joining me.

1111
01:02:53,320 --> 01:02:56,280
Speaker 2: She is not only a crime scene investigator and founder

1112
01:02:56,440 --> 01:02:59,720
Speaker 2: of the Cold Case Research Institute, but she is also

1113
01:02:59,800 --> 01:03:02,920
Speaker 2: the star of a hit podcast which I actually put

1114
01:03:02,960 --> 01:03:07,760
Speaker 2: on a loop sometimes, Cheryl McCollum Zone seven. Cheryl McCollum,

1115
01:03:08,080 --> 01:03:09,840
Speaker 2: has it ever dawned on you when you go into

1116
01:03:09,880 --> 01:03:13,440
Speaker 2: McDonald's for a cup of coffee, that you're arresting somebody,

1117
01:03:13,920 --> 01:03:18,320
Speaker 2: that you're a mere presence equals an arrest, Because that's

1118
01:03:18,400 --> 01:03:20,880
Speaker 2: what they're arguing and what they're trying to do, Cheryl,

1119
01:03:21,280 --> 01:03:24,560
Speaker 2: is get out from under what Manngioni said to police

1120
01:03:24,640 --> 01:03:30,840
Speaker 2: pre Miranda and them finding evidence in his backpack.

1121
01:03:32,640 --> 01:03:34,720
Speaker 19: I think the body cam is going to be so

1122
01:03:34,920 --> 01:03:38,560
Speaker 19: critical here because it's going to show all of his actions.

1123
01:03:38,840 --> 01:03:41,360
Speaker 19: It's going to you know, show the world that he

1124
01:03:41,440 --> 01:03:44,320
Speaker 19: stood up and thought he was under arrest. Only a

1125
01:03:44,400 --> 01:03:47,800
Speaker 19: guilty person would think that, Nancy. What the defense is

1126
01:03:47,920 --> 01:03:51,880
Speaker 19: doing is there basically, look, you use manure to make

1127
01:03:51,960 --> 01:03:55,800
Speaker 19: something grow, right, So they are planting and cultivating and

1128
01:03:55,920 --> 01:03:58,920
Speaker 19: trying to grow this story that he's the victim, that

1129
01:03:59,040 --> 01:04:01,800
Speaker 19: he didn't do anything, that he was under arrest. So

1130
01:04:01,880 --> 01:04:05,120
Speaker 19: now we can't use anything and it's just be it.

1131
01:04:05,600 --> 01:04:09,440
Speaker 2: While this legal warfare is taking place in a courtroom,

1132
01:04:09,920 --> 01:04:15,200
Speaker 2: Manzione's attorneys continue to insist that he's the victim.

1133
01:04:15,760 --> 01:04:18,840
Speaker 18: He's a young man, and he is being treated like

1134
01:04:18,920 --> 01:04:22,480
Speaker 18: a human ping pong ball between two warring jurisdictions here,

1135
01:04:22,760 --> 01:04:28,960
Speaker 18: and they are literally treating him like he is like

1136
01:04:29,360 --> 01:04:32,360
Speaker 18: some sort of political fodder, like some sort of spectacle.

1137
01:04:32,520 --> 01:04:34,720
Speaker 18: He was on display for everyone to see in the

1138
01:04:34,880 --> 01:04:38,200
Speaker 18: biggest staged purp walk I've ever seen in my career.

1139
01:04:38,600 --> 01:04:41,320
Speaker 18: There was no reason for the NYPD and everybody to

1140
01:04:41,400 --> 01:04:43,720
Speaker 18: have these big assault rifles that frankly, I had no

1141
01:04:43,840 --> 01:04:46,480
Speaker 18: idea it was in their arsenal. And to have all

1142
01:04:46,560 --> 01:04:50,240
Speaker 18: of these the press there, the media there, it was

1143
01:04:50,320 --> 01:04:53,160
Speaker 18: like perfectly choreographed. And what was the New York city

1144
01:04:53,240 --> 01:04:55,360
Speaker 18: mayor doing at this press conference.

1145
01:04:55,800 --> 01:04:58,080
Speaker 1: He is a walking, talking contradiction.

1146
01:04:58,240 --> 01:05:02,480
Speaker 19: He supposedly is. Again he has this wealthy CEOs, yet

1147
01:05:02,600 --> 01:05:03,600
Speaker 19: he comes for money.

1148
01:05:03,680 --> 01:05:06,640
Speaker 2: This is the guy living in a high rise in

1149
01:05:06,760 --> 01:05:09,280
Speaker 2: Honolulu waking up to the beach every morning.

1150
01:05:09,320 --> 01:05:11,080
Speaker 1: Did she wake up to a BHD this morning?

1151
01:05:11,120 --> 01:05:11,880
Speaker 14: That I said did not.

1152
01:05:13,160 --> 01:05:17,120
Speaker 2: The Luigi Mangioni defense is fighting tooth and nail to

1153
01:05:17,320 --> 01:05:20,280
Speaker 2: keep out what happened in that McDonald's, and as Cheryl

1154
01:05:20,360 --> 01:05:22,760
Speaker 2: McCombs pointing out, that bodycam is going to be so

1155
01:05:22,920 --> 01:05:25,800
Speaker 2: significant because it doesn't matter what the state says. It

1156
01:05:25,840 --> 01:05:28,680
Speaker 2: doesn't matter what the defense says or how much Luigim

1157
01:05:28,680 --> 01:05:31,479
Speaker 2: Mangioni claims he's the victim. What matters is what really

1158
01:05:31,720 --> 01:05:34,480
Speaker 2: happened inside that McDonald's. They're not going to get the

1159
01:05:34,560 --> 01:05:38,680
Speaker 2: nine one one call suppressed, that's not happening. But what

1160
01:05:39,080 --> 01:05:41,720
Speaker 2: happened in the McDonald's. Is the state going to lose

1161
01:05:41,960 --> 01:05:45,720
Speaker 2: valuable evidence on illegal technicality?

1162
01:05:46,280 --> 01:05:51,840
Speaker 1: Why is it they want that backpack suppressed?

1163
01:05:52,200 --> 01:05:56,280
Speaker 2: Straight out to investigator at large for dailymail dot com,

1164
01:05:56,400 --> 01:05:58,840
Speaker 2: kill le Brantley, What was in the backpack?

1165
01:06:00,800 --> 01:06:01,120
Speaker 1: Nancy?

1166
01:06:01,200 --> 01:06:04,240
Speaker 20: There was a three D printed gun. It's a handgun,

1167
01:06:04,360 --> 01:06:07,840
Speaker 20: which is believed to could possibly be the murder weapon.

1168
01:06:08,040 --> 01:06:11,040
Speaker 20: There was a notebook with handwritten notes in it. Then

1169
01:06:11,120 --> 01:06:13,800
Speaker 20: he also had a knife on him, which was discovered

1170
01:06:13,800 --> 01:06:16,760
Speaker 20: about twenty minutes later, so he was armed and at

1171
01:06:16,800 --> 01:06:18,520
Speaker 20: that point he was considered very dangerous.

1172
01:06:18,920 --> 01:06:22,400
Speaker 1: Okay, hold on, what did you say? Was written in

1173
01:06:22,520 --> 01:06:25,760
Speaker 1: Maggione's spiral notebook that was in his backpack.

1174
01:06:25,880 --> 01:06:29,080
Speaker 20: That he wanted any use the word whack the healthcare

1175
01:06:29,120 --> 01:06:33,320
Speaker 20: CEO whack meaning kill herd destroy.

1176
01:06:33,760 --> 01:06:37,600
Speaker 2: No wonder they want it suppressed to Dave mac Crime

1177
01:06:37,680 --> 01:06:42,600
Speaker 2: Story's investigative reporter, tell me about the three D gun

1178
01:06:42,760 --> 01:06:44,439
Speaker 2: sometimes called a ghost gun.

1179
01:06:44,960 --> 01:06:47,360
Speaker 26: But Nancy, you know we've been we have not been

1180
01:06:47,440 --> 01:06:51,280
Speaker 26: given the very specifics of what type of gun. We

1181
01:06:51,360 --> 01:06:54,240
Speaker 26: know it's a pistol, but we don't know the exact

1182
01:06:54,360 --> 01:06:57,960
Speaker 26: name of it. Three D printed firearms take a massive

1183
01:06:57,960 --> 01:07:01,240
Speaker 26: amount of time and filament are more than any other.

1184
01:07:02,080 --> 01:07:04,960
Speaker 26: Deliberator is the most common and it's the easiest one

1185
01:07:05,040 --> 01:07:07,960
Speaker 26: to print and takes the shortest amount of time. Deliberator

1186
01:07:08,320 --> 01:07:13,240
Speaker 26: takes thirty hours of constant printing with non stop printing.

1187
01:07:13,320 --> 01:07:16,760
Speaker 26: Nancy thirty hours to print the easiest of all the pistols.

1188
01:07:17,160 --> 01:07:20,360
Speaker 2: Tom Smith, here's the thing with a ghost gun is

1189
01:07:20,440 --> 01:07:25,840
Speaker 2: made on a three D printer, Tom, it's unserialized.

1190
01:07:26,720 --> 01:07:27,560
Speaker 1: That's why they're so.

1191
01:07:27,720 --> 01:07:33,040
Speaker 2: Popular amongst criminals. You think Grandpa as is long gun,

1192
01:07:33,120 --> 01:07:35,600
Speaker 2: is shotgun under the bed? You think it's a three

1193
01:07:35,720 --> 01:07:39,240
Speaker 2: D printed gun. No, it's got a serial number. Why

1194
01:07:39,640 --> 01:07:45,040
Speaker 2: is it so serious that a ghost gun is un serialized?

1195
01:07:46,520 --> 01:07:49,280
Speaker 29: Well, because you can't trace it. No matter what you

1196
01:07:49,440 --> 01:07:52,240
Speaker 29: do with that weapon, it cannot be traced back to you.

1197
01:07:52,400 --> 01:07:55,520
Speaker 29: And that is why so many criminals and Luigi I

1198
01:07:55,560 --> 01:07:59,400
Speaker 29: Maaggioni of course went to the lengths that he did

1199
01:07:59,560 --> 01:08:02,960
Speaker 29: to make that gun because that is the predetermined and

1200
01:08:03,080 --> 01:08:07,240
Speaker 29: premeditation of it. Already, he's already thinking ahead of that

1201
01:08:07,440 --> 01:08:10,280
Speaker 29: gun not being traced to him, and that is part

1202
01:08:10,320 --> 01:08:10,960
Speaker 29: of this as well.

1203
01:08:11,440 --> 01:08:15,640
Speaker 2: Tom Smith, You're exactly correct to Joseph Scott Morgan. Let

1204
01:08:15,680 --> 01:08:19,679
Speaker 2: me introduce him formally. He is a professor of forensics

1205
01:08:19,720 --> 01:08:23,000
Speaker 2: at Jacksonville State University with an incredible criminal procedure program.

1206
01:08:23,600 --> 01:08:26,080
Speaker 2: He's the author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon.

1207
01:08:26,360 --> 01:08:29,360
Speaker 2: He is a death investigator that has handled thousands of

1208
01:08:29,439 --> 01:08:33,320
Speaker 2: death scenes, and he's a star of hit podcast Body

1209
01:08:33,400 --> 01:08:38,600
Speaker 2: back to Joe Scott Morgan, Joe Scott, what is a

1210
01:08:39,400 --> 01:08:42,840
Speaker 2: suppressor or commonly known as a silencer.

1211
01:08:44,800 --> 01:08:48,799
Speaker 27: Yeah, stay away from the term silencer, because no weapon

1212
01:08:48,920 --> 01:08:52,200
Speaker 27: is silenced, it is suppressed. That means that the crack

1213
01:08:52,320 --> 01:08:57,040
Speaker 27: of the sound you're talking about a perhaps supersonic round,

1214
01:08:57,200 --> 01:09:00,040
Speaker 27: it's traveling, you know, past the speed of sounds. So

1215
01:09:00,120 --> 01:09:03,080
Speaker 27: what you want to do is reduce that sound that's

1216
01:09:03,120 --> 01:09:06,280
Speaker 27: put forth from the muzzle. If you take a close look,

1217
01:09:06,320 --> 01:09:08,479
Speaker 27: I'm glad that you have that image. You take a

1218
01:09:08,560 --> 01:09:11,680
Speaker 27: close look at that weapon there. The end of that

1219
01:09:11,880 --> 01:09:16,040
Speaker 27: muzzle is actually threaded. What that means is is that

1220
01:09:16,600 --> 01:09:20,840
Speaker 27: it's adaptable. It's adaptable to contain a suppressor. The suppressor

1221
01:09:20,960 --> 01:09:24,800
Speaker 27: is displayed here. It's that long black cylindrical object there.

1222
01:09:24,880 --> 01:09:27,720
Speaker 27: It can be screwed on on the end. Well, you

1223
01:09:27,840 --> 01:09:30,160
Speaker 27: want to knock down the sound. So it's not going

1224
01:09:30,240 --> 01:09:32,880
Speaker 27: to draw attention to you when you fire this thing,

1225
01:09:33,360 --> 01:09:36,559
Speaker 27: because let's just say that it is a non suppressed weapon.

1226
01:09:37,000 --> 01:09:39,519
Speaker 27: This thing's going to echo through the canyons down there

1227
01:09:39,600 --> 01:09:42,280
Speaker 27: in Manhattan, through all of those buildings. You'll still hear

1228
01:09:42,360 --> 01:09:45,240
Speaker 27: a sound, but it'll be a slight crack. It's not

1229
01:09:45,479 --> 01:09:48,880
Speaker 27: like it's portrayed in movies. Okay, but it will reduce

1230
01:09:48,920 --> 01:09:51,519
Speaker 27: the sound, it doesn't completely eliminate it, and the purpose

1231
01:09:51,600 --> 01:09:53,639
Speaker 27: of this is so that you're not going to draw

1232
01:09:53,760 --> 01:09:59,160
Speaker 27: attention to anyone. It does reduce, say, some of the

1233
01:09:59,240 --> 01:10:03,040
Speaker 27: capabilities of the weapon as far as the effectiveness of

1234
01:10:03,120 --> 01:10:06,120
Speaker 27: it at a greater range. But this is this is

1235
01:10:06,240 --> 01:10:08,439
Speaker 27: not a close range. As a matter of fact, if

1236
01:10:08,439 --> 01:10:11,120
Speaker 27: we were to look at the body here, it would

1237
01:10:11,160 --> 01:10:13,920
Speaker 27: be classified as indeterminate because you're not going to have

1238
01:10:14,080 --> 01:10:18,840
Speaker 27: any kind of uh sut deposition gun unperned gunpowder. It

1239
01:10:18,880 --> 01:10:21,280
Speaker 27: will have fallen away by that time. But this is

1240
01:10:21,439 --> 01:10:24,000
Speaker 27: not too distant of a shot. You'll still have that

1241
01:10:24,120 --> 01:10:29,360
Speaker 27: same muzzle velocity striking into Brian Thompson's body. It's effectively lethal.

1242
01:10:30,040 --> 01:10:36,479
Speaker 2: Joining me now, the star of Zone seven podcast, Cheryl McCollum,

1243
01:10:36,560 --> 01:10:45,160
Speaker 2: is with us, Cheryl who has un serialized guns and silencers.

1244
01:10:45,000 --> 01:10:48,479
Speaker 19: Criminals, And maybe there's another thing. Even though this is

1245
01:10:48,560 --> 01:10:51,800
Speaker 19: a three D printed weapon, it's still going to lead

1246
01:10:52,080 --> 01:10:55,680
Speaker 19: marking on capons and they're going to be able to be,

1247
01:10:56,400 --> 01:11:00,200
Speaker 19: you know, determined that this weapon fired. The book let

1248
01:11:00,840 --> 01:11:04,880
Speaker 19: murdered Brian Thompson. So forensically, it's not going to get

1249
01:11:04,960 --> 01:11:07,519
Speaker 19: you out of trouble. They may not can trace it

1250
01:11:07,640 --> 01:11:12,400
Speaker 19: to a manufacturer, to a bar that they can absolutely

1251
01:11:12,800 --> 01:11:16,759
Speaker 19: determine that that bullet was fired by that weapon.

1252
01:11:17,120 --> 01:11:21,120
Speaker 1: Cheryl McCollum, you're so right, and Tom Smith, this is

1253
01:11:21,320 --> 01:11:24,519
Speaker 1: like a fish in water for you. Every day you

1254
01:11:24,680 --> 01:11:25,719
Speaker 1: were getting off.

1255
01:11:25,600 --> 01:11:30,080
Speaker 2: The streets of Manhattan guns to match with bullets, bullets

1256
01:11:30,479 --> 01:11:34,879
Speaker 2: that were literally dug out of victims' bodies.

1257
01:11:35,640 --> 01:11:41,519
Speaker 1: And Cheryl said it right. A bullet hurls down the

1258
01:11:41,600 --> 01:11:42,040
Speaker 1: barrel of.

1259
01:11:42,000 --> 01:11:45,599
Speaker 2: A gun, that gun may look like all the other

1260
01:11:45,680 --> 01:11:49,519
Speaker 2: guns in the gun store showcase, but it's not because

1261
01:11:49,720 --> 01:11:54,639
Speaker 2: inside the barrel the metal has cooled in a certain

1262
01:11:54,680 --> 01:11:59,800
Speaker 2: way and it leaves ridges and imperfections on the inside

1263
01:12:00,240 --> 01:12:04,080
Speaker 2: of the barrel, and as that bullet shoots down the barrel,

1264
01:12:04,479 --> 01:12:10,960
Speaker 2: it is forever marked by those imperfections. So when you

1265
01:12:11,120 --> 01:12:13,800
Speaker 2: take the murder weapon to the crime lab and you

1266
01:12:13,920 --> 01:12:17,120
Speaker 2: shoot a bullet through the murder weapon, and you take

1267
01:12:17,240 --> 01:12:20,240
Speaker 2: the known bullet dug out of the victim and you

1268
01:12:20,320 --> 01:12:23,000
Speaker 2: put it under a microscope next to the one you

1269
01:12:23,280 --> 01:12:28,640
Speaker 2: just shot, it's like a fingerprint. No other gun be

1270
01:12:28,720 --> 01:12:32,960
Speaker 2: it a three D printed gun a Grandma's Bessie's out

1271
01:12:33,000 --> 01:12:37,920
Speaker 2: from under her her mattress. You can track and identify

1272
01:12:38,520 --> 01:12:41,920
Speaker 2: like a fingerprint, that bullet came from that gun.

1273
01:12:42,720 --> 01:12:44,040
Speaker 1: Isn't that true?

1274
01:12:46,000 --> 01:12:47,559
Speaker 29: And that's the best way to say it. It's it's

1275
01:12:47,640 --> 01:12:50,560
Speaker 29: the gun's fingerprint and the ballistic check of that in

1276
01:12:50,640 --> 01:12:53,080
Speaker 29: the twist marks and all of that is what you

1277
01:12:53,240 --> 01:12:57,320
Speaker 29: match up. And it is a fingerprint that is unmatchable,

1278
01:12:57,560 --> 01:13:00,320
Speaker 29: you know, to anyone else. It is strictly to that

1279
01:13:00,520 --> 01:13:04,280
Speaker 29: weapon that you will match up the weapon, take the

1280
01:13:04,720 --> 01:13:07,400
Speaker 29: round taken out of the victim and match it up.

1281
01:13:07,439 --> 01:13:10,360
Speaker 29: And that is damaging when it comes to court.

1282
01:13:10,640 --> 01:13:13,280
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, and Tom Smith, that is why they are

1283
01:13:13,479 --> 01:13:18,320
Speaker 2: fighting to the death in court to keep that jury

1284
01:13:18,479 --> 01:13:23,080
Speaker 2: from ever knowing of a ballistics match that his three

1285
01:13:23,240 --> 01:13:28,839
Speaker 2: day pritty gun is the murder weapon. Listen to Alvin Bragg,

1286
01:13:28,920 --> 01:13:30,960
Speaker 2: the Manhattan District Attorney.

1287
01:13:31,280 --> 01:13:33,599
Speaker 30: For nearly an hour, we alleged to the definitt waited

1288
01:13:33,640 --> 01:13:37,719
Speaker 30: in the area near the Hilton Hotel waiting for mister

1289
01:13:37,800 --> 01:13:41,599
Speaker 30: Thompson to appear. From six thirty eight am to six

1290
01:13:41,760 --> 01:13:44,599
Speaker 30: forty four am. The defendant stood across from the entrance

1291
01:13:44,640 --> 01:13:47,280
Speaker 30: of the hotel on West fifty fourth Street. When he

1292
01:13:47,320 --> 01:13:50,760
Speaker 30: saw mister Thompson, he crossed the street and approached him

1293
01:13:50,800 --> 01:13:51,400
Speaker 30: from behind.

1294
01:13:52,280 --> 01:13:56,600
Speaker 2: Caleb Brantley, Daily Mail the defense for Luigi Manjian, and

1295
01:13:56,640 --> 01:13:59,920
Speaker 2: he is also trying to suppress statements he allegedly met

1296
01:14:00,360 --> 01:14:04,320
Speaker 2: to his guards. He had special guards behind bars, so

1297
01:14:05,479 --> 01:14:07,960
Speaker 2: nothing would happen to him like it did to Epstein.

1298
01:14:08,520 --> 01:14:12,719
Speaker 2: So let's first talk about Thomas Rivers, the former British

1299
01:14:12,920 --> 01:14:17,920
Speaker 2: infantryman who is minding Mangioni. What did Mangioni allegedly say

1300
01:14:18,040 --> 01:14:19,320
Speaker 2: to Rivers.

1301
01:14:21,360 --> 01:14:21,639
Speaker 1: Nancy.

1302
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Speaker 20: Luigi was held for ten days in Pennsylvania, and he

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01:14:25,960 --> 01:14:29,240
Speaker 20: had spoken about being very disappointed that he was being

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01:14:29,360 --> 01:14:33,920
Speaker 20: compared to the unibomber. He also said that mainstream media

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01:14:34,360 --> 01:14:37,160
Speaker 20: was more focused on crime, and that when you looked

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01:14:37,200 --> 01:14:40,320
Speaker 20: at social media, they were really more focused about the

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01:14:40,400 --> 01:14:44,800
Speaker 20: healthcare industry, which, according to this officer, is what Luigi said.

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Speaker 20: This was really about.

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Speaker 1: Wow, sounds like a confession to me. Sky lazarro Oopsie.

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Speaker 25: Nancy A agree and disagree.

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01:14:51,880 --> 01:14:52,559
Speaker 1: Here's the problem.

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Speaker 25: They put these guys in a situation like that, in

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01:14:55,920 --> 01:14:59,000
Speaker 25: solitary where they can't talk to anybody else. And the

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01:14:59,080 --> 01:15:02,000
Speaker 25: other thing is that we I know these officers didn't

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Speaker 25: document any of this. They're supposed to be taking notes

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01:15:04,560 --> 01:15:08,320
Speaker 25: seven times an hour about what he's doing and his

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01:15:08,520 --> 01:15:11,000
Speaker 25: well being, and they don't write down anything.

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Speaker 2: Like he just made an admission, Sky Lazarro. Did you

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01:15:17,000 --> 01:15:20,800
Speaker 2: say it's a problem he's being held in solitary. You

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01:15:20,880 --> 01:15:23,640
Speaker 2: know who else is in solitary, Brian Thompson, except his

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01:15:23,840 --> 01:15:24,400
Speaker 2: is a casket.

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Speaker 1: So you're telling me again, I can't believe you're buying

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01:15:29,600 --> 01:15:33,040
Speaker 1: into this, Sky Lazarro, that he's the one that's being tormented.

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Speaker 1: You know what else?

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Speaker 2: He told Rivers that Rivers should really read Doors a

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01:15:38,439 --> 01:15:43,520
Speaker 2: perception by all this Huxley, which is all about psychedelic

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01:15:43,640 --> 01:15:49,360
Speaker 2: drug trips and mystical interpretations. Needless to say, Rivers did

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01:15:49,479 --> 01:15:54,680
Speaker 2: not read the book. But there is another guard that

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01:15:54,840 --> 01:15:57,519
Speaker 2: he talked to. This is the one I'm really interested in.

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Speaker 1: Listen.

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01:15:58,680 --> 01:16:01,560
Speaker 16: Officer Matt Henry was chatty with the alleged killer. That

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Speaker 16: doesn't stop Man Jonny from telling Henry he was caught

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Speaker 16: with a three D printed firearm, the weapon used to

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Speaker 16: murder CEO Brian Thompson. Attorney Mark Agniffelo challenges Henry, saying,

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Speaker 16: so he just blurted out to you that he had

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Speaker 16: a three D printed pistol. Henry drily replies.

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Speaker 1: Yes to doctor Angela Arnold joining us.

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Speaker 2: She's a renowned psychiatrist out of the Atlanta jurisdiction at

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Speaker 2: Angela Arnold dot com Foreign Professor Psychiatry.

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Speaker 1: It goes on and on.

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01:16:29,800 --> 01:16:33,919
Speaker 2: Former medical director at the psychiatric Obgy Inklin at Grady,

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01:16:34,280 --> 01:16:37,080
Speaker 2: which never has a lack of business. I found a

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Speaker 2: lot of witnesses and victims at Grady Hospital, Doctor angel Arnold.

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Speaker 1: Why is this so hard?

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01:16:45,040 --> 01:16:46,400
Speaker 2: I've met a jury's not going to have a hard

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Speaker 2: time believing this that Luigi Mangioni, who has had a

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01:16:49,960 --> 01:16:55,720
Speaker 2: lifetime of entitlement, would blab to his guards why they're

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Speaker 2: his new friends.

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Speaker 1: They would never betray him, right yep?

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Speaker 8: Oh sure.

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Speaker 31: And you know, Nancy, he probably suffers from some sort

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Speaker 31: of personality disorder in which he thinks about himself an

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Speaker 31: awful lot, So he really doesn't He may not see

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Speaker 31: that he's done anything wrong, and he probably hasn't suffered

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Speaker 31: any consequences for any of his actions in the past,

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Speaker 31: and so that would make him more likely to almost

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Speaker 31: be bragging about what he's done and to let other

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01:17:26,600 --> 01:17:30,280
Speaker 31: people know what he's done. This is typical for his

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01:17:30,479 --> 01:17:34,240
Speaker 31: behavior in all likelihood throughout his existence.

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Speaker 2: Tom Smith joining me, Former NYPD detective thirty years now,

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Speaker 2: star co host and gold Shields Podcast.

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Speaker 1: Tom, What is wrong with rich people?

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Speaker 2: Do they think they can just get away with everything?

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01:17:52,120 --> 01:17:55,519
Speaker 2: Anything and everything they can confess they can stay.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they caught me with the three D printed gun,

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Speaker 1: which is the murder weapon. What is wrong with them?

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Speaker 1: Have you noticed the same sense of entitlement sometimes.

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01:18:07,520 --> 01:18:11,879
Speaker 2: Does them in because they think they can buy off everybody,

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Speaker 2: that everybody wants to be their friend, but these two

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Speaker 2: guards do not want to be his friend.

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Speaker 29: Yeah, they've lived their whole life like this, Nancy. You know,

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01:18:21,200 --> 01:18:23,600
Speaker 29: they've gotten what they wanted. They'd either pay for it

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01:18:24,240 --> 01:18:27,719
Speaker 29: or the power that they have has influenced someone's decision

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01:18:27,800 --> 01:18:30,400
Speaker 29: into what they're getting or what they're doing. And they

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Speaker 29: just think that holds true for every aspect of their life,

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Speaker 29: including killing someone. I mean, that's how deranged they are

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Speaker 29: when it comes to the entitlement that they believe they

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01:18:41,280 --> 01:18:45,519
Speaker 29: are are owed when it comes to murder or you know,

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01:18:45,720 --> 01:18:46,519
Speaker 29: killing a bride.

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Speaker 19: We did that show.

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Speaker 29: You know, it's just constant and it just keeps coming

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01:18:50,880 --> 01:18:52,600
Speaker 29: up and it's absolutely disgusting.

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Speaker 1: Tom.

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Speaker 2: I want you to look at a picture if I

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Speaker 2: get the controller and to put it up for me

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01:18:57,360 --> 01:18:58,280
Speaker 2: dig through those files.

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Speaker 1: I want to see the.

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01:18:58,960 --> 01:19:04,320
Speaker 2: Picture of allegedly Mangioni, who has presumed innocent, holding up

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Speaker 2: the three D with the silencer on it, pointing directly

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Speaker 2: at Brian Thompson's back.

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Speaker 1: According to police, he.

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Speaker 2: Waited an hour for just the right moment. There's his

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01:19:20,320 --> 01:19:24,080
Speaker 2: backpack which was recovered at the McDonald's. There's his outfit

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Speaker 2: which he had with him. There's the three D weapon,

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01:19:27,360 --> 01:19:33,960
Speaker 2: and let's look at Brian Thompson walking along early morning, going.

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Speaker 1: To a work conference. He shot in the back.

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Speaker 2: A Minnesota man identified as Mark Anderson, thirty six, old

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Speaker 2: enough to know better, tries to break Mengoni out of

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Speaker 2: the New York jail the MDC in Brooklyn, posing as

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01:19:49,720 --> 01:19:54,680
Speaker 2: an FBI agent in a plot that PTL praised. The

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01:19:54,760 --> 01:20:01,080
Speaker 2: lord ultimately failed. We wait as justice unfolds. Nancy Grace

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Speaker 2: signing up good Bye friend,