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Speaker 1: One of the most admired, respected, and busiest global leaders

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Speaker 1: in the world is Mark Carney. He served for a

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Speaker 1: number of years as the Governor of the Bank of

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Speaker 1: Canada for a number of additional years as the Governor

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Speaker 1: of the Bank of England. He currently serves as a

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Speaker 1: Special UN Envoy for Climate Action Finance, and he also

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Speaker 1: chairs Brookfield Asset Management. I had a chance to sit

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Speaker 1: down with Mark recently to talk about how he does

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Speaker 1: all these things so well, Mark has been the Bank

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Speaker 1: of Canada governor, been the governor of the Bank of England.

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Speaker 1: Has anybody ever been the governor of two different central

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Speaker 1: banks in two different countries.

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Speaker 2: No, I don't think so.

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Speaker 3: And so in addition to that, in addition.

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Speaker 1: To that, you are also the chairman of Brookfield Asset Management,

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Speaker 1: and you are the new chairman of Bloomberg. So you

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Speaker 1: obviously like b it's Bank of Canada, Bank of England,

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg and Brookfield. But there's a story in the latest

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Speaker 1: edition of a Canadian newspaper like two days ago that's

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Speaker 1: saying that you might also be the next Prime Minister

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Speaker 1: of Canada. So any interest in that in the story?

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Speaker 1: Not in the story per se. The UH you know,

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Speaker 1: it's interesting you you say the same thing over and over,

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Speaker 1: but it gets heard differently in different contexts. And I

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Speaker 1: think that story is probably more.

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Speaker 2: Indication of the current environment in Canada.

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Speaker 3: In other words, you wouldn't be uninterested in that.

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Speaker 2: I'm interested that we have an effective prime minister in Kenaday.

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Speaker 3: Okay, so Prime Minister Trudeau, and.

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Speaker 1: You know him, I know him well, yes, and he's

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Speaker 1: done there. So but we'll take that as maybe all right,

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Speaker 1: so I won't pursue that anymore. All right, let me

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Speaker 1: ask you, as the Bank of England governor, and as

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Speaker 1: the Bank of Canada governor, do you think other the

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Speaker 1: central banks recently figured out that inflation was more serious

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Speaker 1: than it was too late? Or do you think they

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Speaker 1: recognized early on it was going to be serious they

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Speaker 1: just didn't do enough about it.

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Speaker 3: No.

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Speaker 2: I think in hindsight they realized it too late. They

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Speaker 2: were operating under the old paradigm, if you will, that

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Speaker 2: it was an issue of not enough demand, and that

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Speaker 2: is something that works well generally until you have a

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Speaker 2: bunch of supply shocks. And we had a COVID supply shock,

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Speaker 2: we had an energy supply shock, we had supply shoks

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Speaker 2: with supply chains, geopolitics, all of which meant that there

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Speaker 2: was more than transitory inflation, and it took a while

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Speaker 2: for some of the central banks to fully recognize that

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Speaker 2: and start to respond.

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Speaker 1: Now that they did recognize it, do you think they've

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Speaker 1: done enough and do you see any more rate increases

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Speaker 1: likely to come about? There are many people in the

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Speaker 1: market who think that maybe another rate increase in the

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Speaker 1: United States is likely.

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Speaker 3: What do you think about that?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, first, first part of the question, I think

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Speaker 2: that once they started to move, and particularly when the

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Speaker 2: FED started to move, it did respond in a very

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Speaker 2: effective manner. It's consistently surprised people with its how resolute

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Speaker 2: it was and what it was prepared to do. It

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Speaker 2: recognized that the bigger risk was that inflation stayed high

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Speaker 2: or worsened, and it has put us in a position,

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Speaker 2: put the US in a position where inflation is increasingly under.

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Speaker 1: Control, not totally under control.

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Speaker 2: And that gets to the second part of your question,

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Speaker 2: which is, I know, if I have to choose a camp,

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Speaker 2: I'd be in the camp of I expect that there

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Speaker 2: will be a bit more tightening by the Fed, so

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Speaker 2: probably an additional rate increase.

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Speaker 1: This year.

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Speaker 2: But what's as important, in fact, what's more important, is

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Speaker 2: the path of policy over the course of the next

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Speaker 2: twelve to eighteen months. And I think it's finally beginning

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Speaker 2: to be recognized. It's been a painful few weeks for

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Speaker 2: some of them in getting this recognition that it's not

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Speaker 2: just about where the rate is today, it's not just

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Speaker 2: about the peak, but it's the path. And the path

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Speaker 2: of rates is very much and I've been in this

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Speaker 2: view for a while, higher for longer, in order to

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Speaker 2: ensure that policy is adequately tight to bring inflation fully

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Speaker 2: back to that two percent.

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Speaker 1: When I was in the White House as a young man,

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Speaker 1: we were running for reelection under Jimmy Carter, and the

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Speaker 1: head of the inflation Effort fighting inflation effort was a

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Speaker 1: man named Fred Kahn, former Cornell professor, and he went

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Speaker 1: out into the White House briefing room one day and said,

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Speaker 1: I think we're going to have a recession. Well, Carter

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Speaker 1: hauled him into the oval officer said to Fred, I'm

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Speaker 1: running for reelection. Do not use the R word. It

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Speaker 1: scares people. And fred Kahn said, well, what am I

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Speaker 1: supposed to do? I have to be honest, be honest,

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Speaker 1: but don't use the R word. So the next time

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Speaker 1: Fred Khn went out and he said, I think we're

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Speaker 1: heading into a banana. He used the word banana as

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Speaker 1: a substitute of recession for figuring reporters wouldn't put that

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Speaker 1: in the headline. So are we heading into a bana?

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Speaker 3: You think? Or you think we're not going into a banana?

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Speaker 2: Well, I think the likelihood of banana has gone down. Actually,

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Speaker 2: to be clear, the FED has done quite a masterful job.

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Speaker 2: Other things have helped. But if you look at and

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Speaker 2: you asked me a moment ago rightly about unemployment and

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Speaker 2: getting back to the two percent, what's happened in the US,

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Speaker 2: almost uniquely in the US is there hasn't been a

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Speaker 2: sharp rise in unemployment. There's been a fall in vacancies,

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Speaker 2: something that hasn't happened in the past. But of course

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Speaker 2: this cycle is quite different than any previous cycles. So

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Speaker 2: the Fed's been able to thus far ease some of

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Speaker 2: the pressure in the labor market by reducing vacancies as

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Speaker 2: opposed to increasing unemployment. That, plus the other aspects of

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Speaker 2: the resilience that we've seen in the US economy makes

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Speaker 2: recession less likely because the reality is you know, if

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Speaker 2: you get half a percent or certainly a full percent. Historically,

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Speaker 2: anytime the unemployment the US had risen by at least

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Speaker 2: half a percent, there's been a recession. It's just you

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Speaker 2: get the compounding effect that hasn't happened. So the probability's

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Speaker 2: gone down, but there's still lots.

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Speaker 1: So you're the head of the central back in Canada,

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Speaker 1: do you kind of refer a lot to what the

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Speaker 1: US was doing because you're economy so tied to the US.

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Speaker 1: Or do you say, look, we're doing We're going to

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Speaker 1: do what we want to do. We don't care what

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Speaker 1: the US is going to do. You consult a lot.

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Speaker 2: We obsess about the US as the short answer, because

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Speaker 2: it's the most impactful external factor for the Canadian economy.

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Speaker 2: And there's also some you know, some of the things

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Speaker 2: that drive growth in the United States. Where did you

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Speaker 2: grow up in Canada? Where were you born? I was

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Speaker 2: born in Fort Smith in the Northwest Territories, And you're

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Speaker 2: the Arctic and you're in the Northwest Territories.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's very far up.

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Speaker 1: It is very far up. Yeah, So what we're your

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Speaker 1: emphasis on the north and what were your parents doing there?

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Speaker 1: My parents were teachers, And did you ever tay to them?

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Speaker 1: That's pretty far up north to be living. And did

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Speaker 1: they ever move closer? They moved, we moved. Well, it's interesting.

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Speaker 2: I mean it's whatever two hour flights south to Edmonton, which.

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Speaker 3: Is probably when you grow up in Edmonton.

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Speaker 1: I grew up in Edmonton. I went to Yes, And

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Speaker 1: so you were a hockey player too, I was a

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Speaker 1: hockey player.

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Speaker 3: Yes. So you played Harvard hockey at Harvard's.

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Speaker 1: Right, I did, yes, Ish, I opened the gate. I

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Speaker 1: was a goalie, So I opened the gate for a

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Speaker 1: lot of very good players.

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Speaker 3: Really. So were you a star at Harvard in the

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Speaker 3: hockey world or.

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Speaker 1: I was very good at opening the gate?

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Speaker 3: Yes, But you never consider going to the NHL.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I considered it.

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Speaker 3: They didn't.

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Speaker 1: The NHL did not consider it. Maybe in some sort

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Speaker 1: of administrative role. Okay, So after you graduated, you went

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Speaker 1: to do something like investment banking and you went to

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Speaker 1: Goldman Sacks. I went to Goldman Sacks in London, yes,

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Speaker 1: nineteen eighty eight.

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Speaker 3: And what did you do there?

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Speaker 2: I worked, Actually I worked in the credit department. So yeah,

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Speaker 2: credit analysis, which was probably the best thing I could

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Speaker 2: have done, because you know, you build up a fundamental skill.

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Speaker 1: How many people go to Goldman for college they got

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Speaker 1: an MBA and you decided not to get an MBA

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Speaker 1: but to get a PhD in economics. Why did you

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Speaker 1: want a PhD economics?

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Speaker 2: I wanted to Well, I thought that at some point

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Speaker 2: i'd work in public policy, and I thought it would

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Speaker 2: be more useful. And I toyed a bit with being

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Speaker 2: an academic as well. My father was ended up being

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Speaker 2: a professor. Ultimately, So you did this in Oxford. Why

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Speaker 2: didn't you do a university in the United States or Canada?

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Speaker 3: Why did you get a way to England?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: It was To be honest, you could do a PhD

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Speaker 2: in Oxford in three years, as opposed to if you're

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Speaker 2: in the US system as a doctor student, you spend

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Speaker 2: a huge amount of time teaching, which is great if

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Speaker 2: you're going to be an academic. If you want the

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Speaker 2: academic training, though, it means that the average time is most.

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Speaker 3: So when you were in Oxford, did you also played hockey? Rint?

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Speaker 1: Right?

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Speaker 3: I did?

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Speaker 1: And where you was a star or you're a star? Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Okay, So you stayed at Goldman for how many years?

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Speaker 3: I was? Back?

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Speaker 1: In total? I was thirteen years at Goldman, but.

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Speaker 2: Eighty almost ten years.

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Speaker 1: I guess, so what the highest level you reached that

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Speaker 1: Goldman was to be a managing director managing director. So

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Speaker 1: managing director, a managing director. Okay, So why did you

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Speaker 1: leave Goldman? Some people think it's the greatest thing in

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Speaker 1: the world to be a Goldman managing director. Why did

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Speaker 1: you decide to leave and go back to Canada?

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Speaker 2: But I had an opportunity to become deputy governor at

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Speaker 2: the Bank of Canada. I've always had an interest in

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Speaker 2: public policy. It was unique opportunity and I fully huge

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Speaker 2: respect for the guy who was governor at the time,

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Speaker 2: David Dodge.

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Speaker 1: And so how would they have heard of you? You're

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Speaker 1: an investment banker in Goldman. People in Canada are They.

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Speaker 3: Had an end.

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Speaker 1: They put an ad in the paper and I applied.

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Speaker 1: They put an ad in the paper and you responded, wow, okay,

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Speaker 1: that's how you get a job.

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Speaker 3: Okay.

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Speaker 1: Well, now it's like.

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Speaker 3: Okay, so it's not how you got to be the

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Speaker 3: governor as well. You responded to.

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Speaker 2: That, well they knew they knew that. Okay, Well no,

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Speaker 2: but you know for the governor as well. I mean,

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Speaker 2: that's become the norm. Now central banks do put ads.

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Speaker 2: I don't think the fact So you're the deputy governor.

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Speaker 2: You then went to the Finance. I went to the

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Speaker 2: Finance Department and I worked with I was one of

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Speaker 2: the Then you become the governor and I became the

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Speaker 2: governor Stephen Harper. And that was an easy time because

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Speaker 2: there was no recession, there was no problems, the economy

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Speaker 2: was going well well. I yeah, basically I remember saying

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Speaker 2: to Diane and my wife's that look, we had young kids. Look,

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Speaker 2: you know this job. You know you make eight decisions

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Speaker 2: a year. You know exactly when you make those decisions.

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Speaker 2: You know, work life balance. It was going to work

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Speaker 2: great and uh and two weeks after I started, bear

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Speaker 2: Stearn's failed.

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Speaker 1: So ultimately you finished after about how many years were

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Speaker 1: you that? Just under six six? All right, you step

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Speaker 1: down and say now I'm going to go back and

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Speaker 1: make money at Gold and Sacks.

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Speaker 3: So what did you want to do?

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Speaker 1: Didn't I didn't step down. I was asked to.

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Speaker 2: I was approached by the UK government to become governor

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Speaker 2: of the Bank of England.

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Speaker 3: And is that like an illegal poaching?

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Speaker 1: I mean they're going to another country to take the

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Speaker 1: central banker from another country that you think that was unusual,

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Speaker 1: Well it was, it was, It was unusual. It was

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Speaker 1: I mean the unusual times.

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Speaker 2: Technically the head of state, Queen Elizabeth is the same,

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Speaker 2: so it's inter company transfer.

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Speaker 3: Okay. So yeah, all right.

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Speaker 1: So when you're the head of the Central Bank of Canada,

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Speaker 1: by the way, you get your signature on the currency. Yes, wow,

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Speaker 1: so that it's pretty nice in your hand. Somebody a

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Speaker 1: dollar bill, you say to people with my signature, you

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Speaker 1: ever tell them that, well I don't.

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Speaker 3: You don't write that rag. Okay, all right.

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Speaker 1: So you get offered to go to be the head

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Speaker 1: of the Central Bank of England and you said yes

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Speaker 1: right away, and I didn't actually I turned it down

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Speaker 1: a few times.

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Speaker 2: It was a rolling conversation over the course of twenty

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Speaker 2: two eight.

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Speaker 1: So you ultimately took the job. I then took the job.

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Speaker 1: I eventually took the job in it for about eight years. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: just under. And when you're the head of the Central

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Speaker 1: Bank of England, does the Queen call you for advice

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Speaker 1: or she ever asked you anything? To meet the queen

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Speaker 1: very much? Or I did have a few right.

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Speaker 3: And and the Prime minister.

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Speaker 1: He doesn't appoint you the prime minister, or he or

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Speaker 1: she doesn't appoint you. Uh, you're appointed by the sovereign. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and the sovereign you report to the Board of Governors.

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Speaker 2: I show, uh, well you, I mean you report to

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Speaker 2: the British people. Really through Parliament is the way that's

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Speaker 2: really the accountability you're I mean, you can only be

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Speaker 2: removed for incapacity and that is a very Did you

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Speaker 2: enjoy that job, job, job security, the job? I enjoy

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Speaker 2: that I it was, Yes, I did. I mean it

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Speaker 2: was you know, sometimes in the in the thick of it,

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Speaker 2: it's it doesn't feel enjoyable, but it was incredibly challenged.

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Speaker 2: He was you know, there was a lot going on,

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Speaker 2: which is the reason why an outsider came in.

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Speaker 1: So yes, I did enjoy it. Was it more fun

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Speaker 1: to be the head of the Central Bank of Canada

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Speaker 1: or the set of the Central Bank of.

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Speaker 2: England, I would say was with The challenges were much

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Speaker 2: greater in the UK. You had an institution that had

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Speaker 2: been totally transformed. You had a financial system that I

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Speaker 2: mean was at the epicenter of the problems and had

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Speaker 2: to be fixed. You had the elements of Brexit, what

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Speaker 2: ultimately was Brexit, the Scottish referendum. You had a big

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Speaker 2: management challenge, you know, So it was oh, you enjoyed it.

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Speaker 3: I enjoyed it. Yeah, So you would recommend that job

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Speaker 3: anybody that gets offered it. Right.

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Speaker 2: I did recommend it too. I recommended it to a

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Speaker 2: number of people. We go back five years ago. Clean

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Speaker 2: energy investment, so that's wind, solar, battery storage and let's

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Speaker 2: say ev charging those types of things. About five hundred

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Speaker 2: billion worldwide dollars spent last year one point two trillion

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Speaker 2: this year one.

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Speaker 1: Point eight trillion.

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Speaker 2: Okay, that is one and a half one point six

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Speaker 2: times what we're spending on conventional energy investment.

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Speaker 1: So your step down for the Central Bank of England

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Speaker 1: and then you often become the special envoy off you

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Speaker 1: and now you're the chairman of Brookfield Asset Management and

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Speaker 1: now to be the chairman of Bloomberg. Right, what is

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Speaker 1: Brookfield Asset Management?

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Speaker 2: So Brookfield Asset Management is and Brookfield as a whole

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Speaker 2: is one of the world's largest alternative asset managers. The

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Speaker 2: asset management business is the capital light bit. So this

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Speaker 2: is where the twelve hundred plus investment professionals of Brookfield Reside.

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Speaker 2: We oversee the investments that have two hundred thousand operating professionals,

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Speaker 2: and it's a business that invests effectively in the backbone

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Speaker 2: of the global economy.

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Speaker 3: So that means renewable power.

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Speaker 2: One of the largest owners operators at renewable power, over

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Speaker 2: one hundred and sixty gigawatts of renewable power owned, operate

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Speaker 2: and develop. One of the largest real estate investors in

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Speaker 2: the world. One of the pioneers, if not the pioneers,

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Speaker 2: of infrastructure as an asset class. So one hundred and

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Speaker 2: sixty billion under management in infrastructure, and that's everything from

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Speaker 2: energy infrastructure to data infrastructure. Big private equity business and

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Speaker 2: a very large private credit business as well.

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Speaker 3: Now you have many jobs.

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Speaker 1: Currently you're not the head of the Central Bank in

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Speaker 1: inlant anymore or Canada, but among other things, you're the

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Speaker 1: special I guess advisor to the Uncial Envoy, Special Envoy

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Speaker 1: on climate change. So right, that's correct, on climate action

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Speaker 1: and finance.

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Speaker 3: Right, So what does that really mean? What are you doing?

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Speaker 1: You're telling the people in each country they should go

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Speaker 1: more electric or don't burn as much oil, or.

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Speaker 3: What it's really about.

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Speaker 2: So a lot of if there's a common theme to

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Speaker 2: my career. It's working at the intersection of public policy

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Speaker 2: and private markets.

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Speaker 3: So a lot of that in central banking.

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Speaker 2: That's what you're doing, and that's what I'm doing, is

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Speaker 2: this special envoy, and really it's to organize the private

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Speaker 2: financial system to be ready for climate change, not just

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Speaker 2: the physical impacts of climate change, but to be part

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Speaker 2: of the solution, to be able to provide capital, get

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Speaker 2: capital to where it's needed to.

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Speaker 1: Get a mission. So in this disposition, which I assume

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Speaker 1: is probably an unpaid position very much, so you know,

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Speaker 1: people are looking at you all the time, say you're

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Speaker 1: the special envoy for climate action. Can you can't fly

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Speaker 1: in a private plane so easily, I guess, right?

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Speaker 3: And do you take public.

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Speaker 1: Transportation or can you drive your own carve it's an

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Speaker 1: oil and gas car or not? Well, I have I

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Speaker 1: might not surprise.

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Speaker 2: We have an electric car, as you would expect, and

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Speaker 2: most of the time that is charged in Quebec. I

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Speaker 2: live just on the border with Quebec, and that's therefore are.

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Speaker 3: You commutable power?

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Speaker 1: Are you conscious that people always looking at you as

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Speaker 1: a special envoye saying you know, he's using too much

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Speaker 1: he's got too big a carbon footprint, or you don't

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Speaker 1: worry about that. Well, no, people.

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Speaker 2: Look, people will make that, particularly if they don't want

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Speaker 2: to confront the tough issues around climate change, the big

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Speaker 2: blocks of what's actually going to make a difference. They'll

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Speaker 2: go to you know, the anything you're wearing. You know,

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Speaker 2: there's plastic on my watch strap, and therefore there's an

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Speaker 2: element of hydrocarbons in that.

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Speaker 1: If you have an oil and gas investment that comes

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Speaker 1: to an investment committee and you're the special envoy, you

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Speaker 1: have to recuse yourself or how do you.

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Speaker 2: Know, Well, we have a very we have very clear

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Speaker 2: approach at Brookfield. As I say, we're one of the

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Speaker 2: largest renewable energy providers and we are systematically going through

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Speaker 2: our assets to ensure that as much as possible they

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Speaker 2: have business plans that are consistent with the transition towards

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Speaker 2: net zero and we do that first and foremost. From

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Speaker 2: a fiduciary perspective, we see being low carbon or lowering

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Speaker 2: your carbon footprint to put it that way, as one

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Speaker 2: of the fundamental drivers of value in the market. And

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Speaker 2: I have to say, you know we're being proven right,

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Speaker 2: We know in real time that the mapping of the

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Speaker 2: temperature increase to the extreme weather events is worse than

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Speaker 2: we thought ten years ago. So actually the goal, even

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Speaker 2: though the goal is getting tougher to get, it's becoming

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Speaker 2: more important to get there. And the third thing we

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Speaker 2: know is the mapping. You can map specific actions to

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Speaker 2: specific emission reductions and it can become very clear whether

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Speaker 2: you're making a difference on that and what we've seen.

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Speaker 2: I'll make two points if I may, on that. One

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Speaker 2: is we go back five years ago. Clean energy investment,

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Speaker 2: so that's wind, solar, battery storage, and let's say ev

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Speaker 2: charging those types of things. About five hundred billion worldwide

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Speaker 2: dollars spent this year last year one point two trillion

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Speaker 2: this year one point eight trillion. Okay, that is one

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Speaker 2: and a half one point six times what we're spending

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Speaker 2: on conventional energy investment, and that's starting to move, you know,

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Speaker 2: so you can see in real time what's happening in

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Speaker 2: terms of emission reduction, solution emission reduction, and as well,

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Speaker 2: you know, from a financial we're at Bloomberg, you know,

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Speaker 2: and talking a bit about Brookfield as well. From a

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Speaker 2: financial perspective. First off, the numbers are huge in terms

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Speaker 2: of the you know, the action is in the clean

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Speaker 2: not in the conventional. Secondly, the information set around whether

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Speaker 2: or not a company doesn't matter what the industry is

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Speaker 2: could be tech, could be motor, you, motor, whatever.

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Speaker 1: Services.

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Speaker 2: The information about what your carbon footprint is today and

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Speaker 2: where it's going is exploding, so you can.

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Speaker 1: Tell who's part of the solution, who's part of the problem.

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Speaker 3: And that is driving value.

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Speaker 1: Some of the emerging market countries say, well, wait a second,

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Speaker 1: you guys in the United States and Western Europe, you

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Speaker 1: had a century or so to pollute as much as

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Speaker 1: you want it. Now you're asking us as we're emerging,

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Speaker 1: to give away the right to use some of these

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Speaker 1: same kinds of fuels that you use as it's not fair,

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Speaker 1: They would say, what do you respond to that, Well.

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Speaker 3: It's not fair.

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Speaker 2: Unfortunately, the disproportionate impacts of climate change will also fall

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Speaker 2: on those countries and the people in those countries. You know,

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Speaker 2: Africa seventeen percent of the world's people three percent of

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Speaker 2: the world's emissions run right, but you know, you know,

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Speaker 2: hundreds of millions of people will be in uninhabitable climate

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Speaker 2: if we don't get this on top. So we've got

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Speaker 2: to all get together and deal with at first point.

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Speaker 2: And then the second is that now, given the progress

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Speaker 2: that has been made in the economics of wind solar

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Speaker 2: stores particularly, they are becoming the low cost solutions for

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Speaker 2: those countries as well.

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Speaker 1: You have an electric car. You said you drive electric car, right,

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Speaker 1: So some people say electric cars are not perfect in

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Speaker 1: the sense that they get the minerals you need for

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Speaker 1: some of their batteries. For example, you have to do

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Speaker 1: a lot of mining of things and that is not

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Speaker 1: great for the environment either. But on the whole you

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Speaker 1: would say electric vehicles are infinitely better than carbon.

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Speaker 2: Well, here we are in combustion in Bloomberg, and I

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Speaker 2: can reference BNF research on this, which they actually show

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Speaker 2: depending on where you are where the crossover point is

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Speaker 2: that your electric car net impact on the environment is

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Speaker 2: you know where it's better than the internal combustion engine car.

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Speaker 2: If you're in place like Canada where you've got a

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Speaker 2: lot of clean power eighty five percent of our power

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Speaker 2: zero mission in Canada, a little plug for Canadian manufacturing

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Speaker 2: there by the way, and the crossovers.

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Speaker 1: About eighteen months.

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Speaker 2: If you're even if you're in China where you have

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Speaker 2: instilled in the install based a lot of coal. It's well,

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Speaker 2: I'll have to check on I'll do BNF and check

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Speaker 2: the number, but it's around five years, okay, So and

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Speaker 2: that includes the embedded carbon from all those processes.

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Speaker 1: For somebody whos watching it says, I'd like to be

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Speaker 1: like Mark Carney. Successful, but almost everything is touch to say,

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Speaker 1: maybe not hockey perfectly, but pretty good.

443
00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:52,439
Speaker 3: What was it you hard work?

444
00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:57,439
Speaker 1: It's just being good Jenes, you know, just smarter than

445
00:21:57,480 --> 00:22:00,000
Speaker 1: everybody else. So what is it luck? What are you

446
00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:02,240
Speaker 1: think it is that enable you to do all these things?

447
00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:04,160
Speaker 1: And you're still a very young man by my standard.

448
00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:06,320
Speaker 1: You're fifty eight years old. That's a teenager to me.

449
00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:10,360
Speaker 1: So so how so what do you think made this possible?

450
00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:13,720
Speaker 2: Well, look, l luck is a huge element of it,

451
00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:17,520
Speaker 2: without question. You make your own luck to some extent

452
00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:19,960
Speaker 2: if you're doing things that you like and you care about,

453
00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:22,959
Speaker 2: so you're around opportunities. You know, I wouldn't have been

454
00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:25,080
Speaker 2: Governor of the Bank of England if I hadn't wanted

455
00:22:25,119 --> 00:22:26,879
Speaker 2: to be in public policy and was the governor of

456
00:22:26,960 --> 00:22:29,720
Speaker 2: Bank of Canada, for example. But I, at least in

457
00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:33,600
Speaker 2: my experience, maybe with my genes or whatever, like you

458
00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:34,880
Speaker 2: can't get away from hard work.