WEBVTT - Second Bayer Ruling Links Weed Killer to Cancer

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<v Speaker 1>Welcome to the Bloomberg Law Podcast. I'm June Grosso. Every

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<v Speaker 1>day we bring you insight and analysis into the most

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<v Speaker 1>important legal news of the day. You can find more

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<v Speaker 1>episodes of the Bloomberg Law Podcast on Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud

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<v Speaker 1>and on Bloomberg dot com slash podcasts. A second jury

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<v Speaker 1>returned averted against Buyer overclaims that it's round up weed

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<v Speaker 1>killer causes cancer. The trial now moves to a second

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<v Speaker 1>phase to determine the company's liability and any damages for

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<v Speaker 1>Edwin Hardeman, who sprayed the who said that he sprayed

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<v Speaker 1>the herbicide on his property for decades and that it

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<v Speaker 1>caused his non Hodgkins lymphoma. These are just the first

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<v Speaker 1>two cases out of more than eleven thousand. Joining me

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<v Speaker 1>is Eric Gordon, a professor at the University of Michigan

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<v Speaker 1>Law School and Business School. Eric first described the way

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<v Speaker 1>the proceedings were split at Buyer's request and to its advantage. Yeah, Jenn,

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<v Speaker 1>and that's actually an important point in the outcome here.

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<v Speaker 1>Buyer convinced the judge to try the case in two

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<v Speaker 1>separate phases so that jurors first would decide whether round

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<v Speaker 1>up was a substantial factor in the plaints of cancer

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<v Speaker 1>before the jury got to hear about alleged wrongdoing by

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<v Speaker 1>the company. The alleged wrongdoing being and failing to warn

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<v Speaker 1>people about cancer risks and maybe hiding evidence. So this

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<v Speaker 1>was Bears. This was Bear's new card in their defense strategy.

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<v Speaker 1>So will this second phase be a steeper climb for

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<v Speaker 1>the defense as jurors will hear some damaging evidence which

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<v Speaker 1>you referenced that mont Santo ghost wrote scientific literature to

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<v Speaker 1>ensure that Roundup was not classified as christinogenic. Yeah, Now

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<v Speaker 1>the jury is going to get to hear the emotionally

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<v Speaker 1>flammable evidence that the evidence that, if believed, makes Buyer

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<v Speaker 1>look like really bad people. The exact evidence. This was

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<v Speaker 1>that nature of the evidence that made buyer wanted not

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<v Speaker 1>to be in the first phase, so they got kind

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<v Speaker 1>of a clean decision about about whether it caused cancer.

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<v Speaker 1>So it only gets worse for buyer. The company insists

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<v Speaker 1>that the active ingredient in the herbicide does not cause cancer.

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<v Speaker 1>Buyers share price has dropped since its acquisition of mon

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<v Speaker 1>Santo in June. Will it continue to face these lawsuits

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<v Speaker 1>until it changes the ingredients in Roundup? Yeah, and maybe

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<v Speaker 1>even after them because the lawsuits are about people who

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<v Speaker 1>say they were hurt by the old ingredients, and you

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<v Speaker 1>know what's going on here? Is there short of two

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<v Speaker 1>levels of reality? There's some level of scientific reality. Buyer

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<v Speaker 1>says there are many, many, many, many studies, including studies

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<v Speaker 1>that had nothing to do with that say it doesn't

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<v Speaker 1>cause cancer. The e p A didn't require a warning.

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<v Speaker 1>European people didn't require a warning. That's one level, but

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<v Speaker 1>there's another level. And the other level is what jurors

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<v Speaker 1>will believe. And what jurors will believe is what turns

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<v Speaker 1>into judgments and financial liabilities and the risk to the

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<v Speaker 1>stock price. According to Bloomberg Intelligence, the settlement value of

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<v Speaker 1>all the cases would be more than five billion dollars.

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<v Speaker 1>Will this verdict edge the company to a settlement or

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<v Speaker 1>is it too soon? Yeah? I think it's too soon.

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<v Speaker 1>You don't want to settle. You don't want to settle

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<v Speaker 1>on something that looks like weakness and a loss. So

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<v Speaker 1>I don't think they're ready to settle. I think they're

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<v Speaker 1>ready to continue their battle. It's it's one jury. Uh,

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<v Speaker 1>it's we don't know what another jury would be. It's

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<v Speaker 1>not good news for Buyer, but it is just one jury.

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<v Speaker 1>The last jury returned a verdict of two nine million

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<v Speaker 1>dollars which was reduced by a judge to seventy eight

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<v Speaker 1>point six million, So they were very unhappy with the

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<v Speaker 1>way Monsanto conducted itself over the years. Yeah, that was

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<v Speaker 1>a socket to verdict technically, term um, you know that

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<v Speaker 1>if you get the jury mad at the defendant, and

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<v Speaker 1>the defendant is a big corporation, then you can really

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<v Speaker 1>get these big verdicts that the judge is cut down

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<v Speaker 1>and even the seventy eight million dollar one might be

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<v Speaker 1>cut down further on appeal. Now, this judge and apparently

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<v Speaker 1>he was almost bent over backwards for Buyer during the

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<v Speaker 1>first part of the trial and made sure that a

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<v Speaker 1>lot of evidence didn't get in at this point. But

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<v Speaker 1>now at the second part of the trial he's being

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<v Speaker 1>a little more expansive and he said he wrote that

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<v Speaker 1>there is strong evidence from which a jury could conclude

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<v Speaker 1>that quote Monsanto does not particularly care whether it's product

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<v Speaker 1>is in fact giving people cancer, focusing instead on manipulating

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<v Speaker 1>public opinion and undermining anyone who raises genuine and legitimate

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<v Speaker 1>concerns about the issue. So if the judge feels that

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<v Speaker 1>there's strong evidence. What's the jury likely to feel? Oh boy,

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<v Speaker 1>you never know. But that wasn't That was not good news. Um. Actually,

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<v Speaker 1>Joel Rosenblatt, one of your Boomberg colleagues, wrote something that

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<v Speaker 1>I read this morning on my on my terminal that

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<v Speaker 1>covers us really well, did a really good piece. Um.

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<v Speaker 1>The judge was very fair to Buyer. Um. Maybe in

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<v Speaker 1>part because the judge wanted this verdict to be bulletproof

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<v Speaker 1>difficult to appeal. So one result is that one ground

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<v Speaker 1>for appeal that Buyer has tried to use, which is

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<v Speaker 1>that these these trials should be separated into two phases.

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<v Speaker 1>That went away because the judge, Judge Trowberry, gave him

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<v Speaker 1>the two phases. So that's the extra bit of bad news. This.

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<v Speaker 1>This is gonna be a tougher one to appeal if

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<v Speaker 1>Buyer in the end loses some another big judgment. So

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<v Speaker 1>there are several more trials already scheduled in California and St. Louis.

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<v Speaker 1>Does Buyer learn from these from the prior trials? Do

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<v Speaker 1>they change their strategy? Yeah? Whenever you try, whether you

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<v Speaker 1>win or lose, you you you review everything, your review

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<v Speaker 1>everything that you think worked with the jury. Everything you

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<v Speaker 1>think didn't work with the jury, you've seen a little

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<v Speaker 1>bit more about what the other side is going to

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<v Speaker 1>say and what they're gonna do to tear your pace,

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<v Speaker 1>your case apart. So when you have a series of trials,

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<v Speaker 1>when you have these like kind of mass mass towards

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<v Speaker 1>kinds of things with series of trials, um, the really

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<v Speaker 1>important thing to do in these early cases is to

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<v Speaker 1>learn as much as you can, and they are learning

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<v Speaker 1>a great deal, I assume because these cases also are

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<v Speaker 1>are rather long. They're not They're not short cases by

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<v Speaker 1>any means. This next phase is expected to be about

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<v Speaker 1>two weeks long of the second phase of this trial.

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<v Speaker 1>Thanks so much, Eric, that's Eric Gordon. He's a professor

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<v Speaker 1>at the University of Michigan Law School and Business School.

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<v Speaker 1>Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg Law Podcast. You can

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<v Speaker 1>subscribe and listen to the show on Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud,

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<v Speaker 1>and on Bloomberg dot com slash podcast. I'm June Brosso.

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<v Speaker 1>This is Bloomberg m HM.