1 00:00:03,480 --> 00:00:07,560 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Law Podcast. I'm June Grosso. Every 2 00:00:07,640 --> 00:00:10,440 Speaker 1: day we bring you insight and analysis into the most 3 00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:13,399 Speaker 1: important legal news of the day. You can find more 4 00:00:13,440 --> 00:00:18,040 Speaker 1: episodes of the Bloomberg Law Podcast on Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud 5 00:00:18,320 --> 00:00:22,600 Speaker 1: and on Bloomberg dot com slash podcasts. A second jury 6 00:00:22,640 --> 00:00:26,079 Speaker 1: returned averted against Buyer overclaims that it's round up weed 7 00:00:26,160 --> 00:00:29,440 Speaker 1: killer causes cancer. The trial now moves to a second 8 00:00:29,480 --> 00:00:33,199 Speaker 1: phase to determine the company's liability and any damages for 9 00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:37,000 Speaker 1: Edwin Hardeman, who sprayed the who said that he sprayed 10 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:39,519 Speaker 1: the herbicide on his property for decades and that it 11 00:00:39,600 --> 00:00:42,920 Speaker 1: caused his non Hodgkins lymphoma. These are just the first 12 00:00:42,920 --> 00:00:46,000 Speaker 1: two cases out of more than eleven thousand. Joining me 13 00:00:46,080 --> 00:00:48,360 Speaker 1: is Eric Gordon, a professor at the University of Michigan 14 00:00:48,440 --> 00:00:52,240 Speaker 1: Law School and Business School. Eric first described the way 15 00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:57,800 Speaker 1: the proceedings were split at Buyer's request and to its advantage. Yeah, Jenn, 16 00:00:57,880 --> 00:01:00,360 Speaker 1: and that's actually an important point in the outcome here. 17 00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:03,600 Speaker 1: Buyer convinced the judge to try the case in two 18 00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:07,280 Speaker 1: separate phases so that jurors first would decide whether round 19 00:01:07,360 --> 00:01:10,160 Speaker 1: up was a substantial factor in the plaints of cancer 20 00:01:10,760 --> 00:01:13,920 Speaker 1: before the jury got to hear about alleged wrongdoing by 21 00:01:13,959 --> 00:01:17,200 Speaker 1: the company. The alleged wrongdoing being and failing to warn 22 00:01:17,240 --> 00:01:20,920 Speaker 1: people about cancer risks and maybe hiding evidence. So this 23 00:01:21,080 --> 00:01:25,959 Speaker 1: was Bears. This was Bear's new card in their defense strategy. 24 00:01:26,080 --> 00:01:29,800 Speaker 1: So will this second phase be a steeper climb for 25 00:01:29,840 --> 00:01:33,720 Speaker 1: the defense as jurors will hear some damaging evidence which 26 00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:38,360 Speaker 1: you referenced that mont Santo ghost wrote scientific literature to 27 00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:43,839 Speaker 1: ensure that Roundup was not classified as christinogenic. Yeah, Now 28 00:01:43,880 --> 00:01:46,760 Speaker 1: the jury is going to get to hear the emotionally 29 00:01:47,240 --> 00:01:52,040 Speaker 1: flammable evidence that the evidence that, if believed, makes Buyer 30 00:01:52,160 --> 00:01:56,400 Speaker 1: look like really bad people. The exact evidence. This was 31 00:01:56,440 --> 00:01:58,920 Speaker 1: that nature of the evidence that made buyer wanted not 32 00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:00,680 Speaker 1: to be in the first phase, so they got kind 33 00:02:00,680 --> 00:02:05,680 Speaker 1: of a clean decision about about whether it caused cancer. 34 00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:10,519 Speaker 1: So it only gets worse for buyer. The company insists 35 00:02:10,919 --> 00:02:15,200 Speaker 1: that the active ingredient in the herbicide does not cause cancer. 36 00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:20,040 Speaker 1: Buyers share price has dropped since its acquisition of mon 37 00:02:20,160 --> 00:02:24,080 Speaker 1: Santo in June. Will it continue to face these lawsuits 38 00:02:24,160 --> 00:02:28,240 Speaker 1: until it changes the ingredients in Roundup? Yeah, and maybe 39 00:02:28,280 --> 00:02:30,760 Speaker 1: even after them because the lawsuits are about people who 40 00:02:30,840 --> 00:02:33,360 Speaker 1: say they were hurt by the old ingredients, and you 41 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:35,080 Speaker 1: know what's going on here? Is there short of two 42 00:02:35,240 --> 00:02:39,640 Speaker 1: levels of reality? There's some level of scientific reality. Buyer 43 00:02:39,760 --> 00:02:43,560 Speaker 1: says there are many, many, many, many studies, including studies 44 00:02:43,600 --> 00:02:46,360 Speaker 1: that had nothing to do with that say it doesn't 45 00:02:46,400 --> 00:02:49,320 Speaker 1: cause cancer. The e p A didn't require a warning. 46 00:02:49,480 --> 00:02:53,680 Speaker 1: European people didn't require a warning. That's one level, but 47 00:02:53,960 --> 00:02:57,240 Speaker 1: there's another level. And the other level is what jurors 48 00:02:57,280 --> 00:03:00,280 Speaker 1: will believe. And what jurors will believe is what turns 49 00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:04,640 Speaker 1: into judgments and financial liabilities and the risk to the 50 00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:10,280 Speaker 1: stock price. According to Bloomberg Intelligence, the settlement value of 51 00:03:10,320 --> 00:03:13,280 Speaker 1: all the cases would be more than five billion dollars. 52 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:17,280 Speaker 1: Will this verdict edge the company to a settlement or 53 00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:20,239 Speaker 1: is it too soon? Yeah? I think it's too soon. 54 00:03:20,360 --> 00:03:22,959 Speaker 1: You don't want to settle. You don't want to settle 55 00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:25,359 Speaker 1: on something that looks like weakness and a loss. So 56 00:03:25,520 --> 00:03:28,280 Speaker 1: I don't think they're ready to settle. I think they're 57 00:03:28,320 --> 00:03:33,079 Speaker 1: ready to continue their battle. It's it's one jury. Uh, 58 00:03:33,400 --> 00:03:35,840 Speaker 1: it's we don't know what another jury would be. It's 59 00:03:35,880 --> 00:03:39,840 Speaker 1: not good news for Buyer, but it is just one jury. 60 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:44,120 Speaker 1: The last jury returned a verdict of two nine million 61 00:03:44,200 --> 00:03:47,920 Speaker 1: dollars which was reduced by a judge to seventy eight 62 00:03:47,960 --> 00:03:52,400 Speaker 1: point six million, So they were very unhappy with the 63 00:03:52,440 --> 00:03:57,040 Speaker 1: way Monsanto conducted itself over the years. Yeah, that was 64 00:03:57,080 --> 00:04:02,720 Speaker 1: a socket to verdict technically, term um, you know that 65 00:04:02,880 --> 00:04:05,320 Speaker 1: if you get the jury mad at the defendant, and 66 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:08,760 Speaker 1: the defendant is a big corporation, then you can really 67 00:04:08,840 --> 00:04:11,200 Speaker 1: get these big verdicts that the judge is cut down 68 00:04:11,200 --> 00:04:13,880 Speaker 1: and even the seventy eight million dollar one might be 69 00:04:13,920 --> 00:04:18,760 Speaker 1: cut down further on appeal. Now, this judge and apparently 70 00:04:18,839 --> 00:04:23,039 Speaker 1: he was almost bent over backwards for Buyer during the 71 00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:26,120 Speaker 1: first part of the trial and made sure that a 72 00:04:26,200 --> 00:04:28,640 Speaker 1: lot of evidence didn't get in at this point. But 73 00:04:29,000 --> 00:04:32,120 Speaker 1: now at the second part of the trial he's being 74 00:04:32,160 --> 00:04:34,920 Speaker 1: a little more expansive and he said he wrote that 75 00:04:34,960 --> 00:04:37,840 Speaker 1: there is strong evidence from which a jury could conclude 76 00:04:37,880 --> 00:04:41,919 Speaker 1: that quote Monsanto does not particularly care whether it's product 77 00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:46,120 Speaker 1: is in fact giving people cancer, focusing instead on manipulating 78 00:04:46,160 --> 00:04:50,880 Speaker 1: public opinion and undermining anyone who raises genuine and legitimate 79 00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:55,800 Speaker 1: concerns about the issue. So if the judge feels that 80 00:04:55,839 --> 00:05:00,720 Speaker 1: there's strong evidence. What's the jury likely to feel? Oh boy, 81 00:05:00,760 --> 00:05:05,560 Speaker 1: you never know. But that wasn't That was not good news. Um. Actually, 82 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:09,120 Speaker 1: Joel Rosenblatt, one of your Boomberg colleagues, wrote something that 83 00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:12,039 Speaker 1: I read this morning on my on my terminal that 84 00:05:12,160 --> 00:05:15,480 Speaker 1: covers us really well, did a really good piece. Um. 85 00:05:15,520 --> 00:05:19,880 Speaker 1: The judge was very fair to Buyer. Um. Maybe in 86 00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:25,039 Speaker 1: part because the judge wanted this verdict to be bulletproof 87 00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:29,440 Speaker 1: difficult to appeal. So one result is that one ground 88 00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:32,479 Speaker 1: for appeal that Buyer has tried to use, which is 89 00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:35,560 Speaker 1: that these these trials should be separated into two phases. 90 00:05:35,960 --> 00:05:39,000 Speaker 1: That went away because the judge, Judge Trowberry, gave him 91 00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:42,480 Speaker 1: the two phases. So that's the extra bit of bad news. This. 92 00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:45,760 Speaker 1: This is gonna be a tougher one to appeal if 93 00:05:45,839 --> 00:05:50,360 Speaker 1: Buyer in the end loses some another big judgment. So 94 00:05:50,480 --> 00:05:54,960 Speaker 1: there are several more trials already scheduled in California and St. Louis. 95 00:05:56,000 --> 00:05:59,760 Speaker 1: Does Buyer learn from these from the prior trials? Do 96 00:05:59,920 --> 00:06:03,800 Speaker 1: they change their strategy? Yeah? Whenever you try, whether you 97 00:06:03,800 --> 00:06:08,680 Speaker 1: win or lose, you you you review everything, your review 98 00:06:08,760 --> 00:06:11,400 Speaker 1: everything that you think worked with the jury. Everything you 99 00:06:11,440 --> 00:06:14,480 Speaker 1: think didn't work with the jury, you've seen a little 100 00:06:14,480 --> 00:06:16,599 Speaker 1: bit more about what the other side is going to 101 00:06:16,680 --> 00:06:19,120 Speaker 1: say and what they're gonna do to tear your pace, 102 00:06:19,480 --> 00:06:23,760 Speaker 1: your case apart. So when you have a series of trials, 103 00:06:23,839 --> 00:06:26,039 Speaker 1: when you have these like kind of mass mass towards 104 00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:30,359 Speaker 1: kinds of things with series of trials, um, the really 105 00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:33,159 Speaker 1: important thing to do in these early cases is to 106 00:06:33,240 --> 00:06:36,599 Speaker 1: learn as much as you can, and they are learning 107 00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:39,160 Speaker 1: a great deal, I assume because these cases also are 108 00:06:39,200 --> 00:06:41,680 Speaker 1: are rather long. They're not They're not short cases by 109 00:06:41,720 --> 00:06:44,240 Speaker 1: any means. This next phase is expected to be about 110 00:06:44,279 --> 00:06:46,320 Speaker 1: two weeks long of the second phase of this trial. 111 00:06:46,400 --> 00:06:49,320 Speaker 1: Thanks so much, Eric, that's Eric Gordon. He's a professor 112 00:06:49,320 --> 00:06:52,200 Speaker 1: at the University of Michigan Law School and Business School. 113 00:06:53,160 --> 00:06:56,120 Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg Law Podcast. You can 114 00:06:56,160 --> 00:06:59,880 Speaker 1: subscribe and listen to the show on Apple Podcasts, SoundCloud, 115 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:03,839 Speaker 1: and on Bloomberg dot com slash podcast. I'm June Brosso. 116 00:07:04,320 --> 00:07:11,520 Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg m HM.