WEBVTT - Ep. 207: Bullfighting a Griz 0:00:00.040 --> 0:00:02.640 All right, everybody, I know you're sitting home wineing and 0:00:02.720 --> 0:00:05.600 crying about how you missed getting tickets for Meat Eater 0:00:05.760 --> 0:00:10.200 off there and like you're just despondent, catatonic. What are 0:00:10.240 --> 0:00:13.039 the kind of words you guys even know what catatonic means? 0:00:13.680 --> 0:00:17.400 Super not happy because you missed me and every it's 0:00:17.400 --> 0:00:21.400 so but it has but perk up, come out of 0:00:21.440 --> 0:00:26.560 that catatonic stupor because there's still two venues left. Everything's 0:00:26.560 --> 0:00:28.600 sold out, but we got still still two venues left. 0:00:28.840 --> 0:00:34.720 April fifteen and April sixteen. Neighboring dates me cal Yanni, 0:00:35.320 --> 0:00:38.840 Meat Eater off the Air, Holy Smokes, MASA Arts Center, 0:00:38.880 --> 0:00:41.400 and Mace Arizona. Few Phoenix Market people or people who 0:00:41.400 --> 0:00:44.960 can get there in City National Grove, Anaheim, California, like 0:00:45.000 --> 0:00:47.480 the l A. You people, come on out, man, hurry 0:00:47.520 --> 0:00:49.280 up and get them. Everything else is gone, but get 0:00:49.280 --> 0:01:01.680 those see you me eat your podcast you shirtless, severely 0:01:01.840 --> 0:01:06.960 folk bitten in my case, underwear listening podcast. You can't 0:01:06.959 --> 0:01:11.039 predict anything presented by on X Hunt, creators of the 0:01:11.080 --> 0:01:14.880 most comprehensive digital mapping system for hunters. Download the Hunt 0:01:14.880 --> 0:01:18.040 app from the iTunes or Google play Store, nor where 0:01:18.080 --> 0:01:25.840 you stand with on X you're starting, Johnnie, you're starting 0:01:25.880 --> 0:01:27.800 the whole podcast. Yeah, because if you're gonna say the 0:01:27.800 --> 0:01:30.080 first thing, there's something I think you should say. Oh, 0:01:31.400 --> 0:01:33.960 but then going on welcome everybody, No, no, no, you 0:01:34.000 --> 0:01:38.720 should say, um, so Alex Messenger, you got attacked by 0:01:38.720 --> 0:01:41.119 a grizzly bear, and then going to whatever you're gonna 0:01:41.120 --> 0:01:45.160 talk about, all right, because that's titillating, very that's titillating, 0:01:45.319 --> 0:01:47.560 and people want to hear all about that. Have you 0:01:47.640 --> 0:01:49.840 always been fond of that word? Did you feel like 0:01:49.960 --> 0:01:54.520 just recently it's like re entered your vocabulary, titting what 0:01:54.640 --> 0:01:57.120 I like about? But no, it only recently. I've always 0:01:57.120 --> 0:01:59.120 been fond of it. I've just been trying to use 0:01:59.200 --> 0:02:06.960 it more. Um, there's a Tom Robbins character named Marks Marvelous, 0:02:06.960 --> 0:02:11.200 and uh, he always liked that name because people loathe 0:02:11.360 --> 0:02:15.160 the marks Karl Marx and real men never use the 0:02:15.200 --> 0:02:18.120 word marvelous, and so it was sort of an attack 0:02:18.200 --> 0:02:22.280 on language and stereotypes about language. So I feel like, um, 0:02:22.320 --> 0:02:26.560 the word titilating is unexpected. It is that like if 0:02:26.600 --> 0:02:33.480 I said red or awesome or bitching, people don't care 0:02:33.520 --> 0:02:39.200 about that red story no one's gonna listen a titilating story. 0:02:39.639 --> 0:02:42.840 You'll fill over there. He looks half asleep, can't be 0:02:44.040 --> 0:02:47.160 he's fired right up now. Yeah, you hear that word 0:02:47.200 --> 0:02:49.600 and they turn the volume now so they know it's 0:02:49.639 --> 0:02:53.280 a titilating story about white water and a bear attack. 0:02:53.480 --> 0:02:57.560 That's right, be bite. But how do we get to 0:02:57.639 --> 0:02:59.560 that well once? I mean, just now, I want to 0:02:59.600 --> 0:03:01.600 do in. I want to do him justice as an author. 0:03:02.600 --> 0:03:05.680 Alex Messenger, author of the twenty ninth Day Surviving a 0:03:05.720 --> 0:03:08.919 Grizzly Attack in the Canadian Tundra. But first, Yanni on 0:03:09.000 --> 0:03:15.359 Walleye Alex now lives in Duluth, correct, that's right. And 0:03:15.400 --> 0:03:18.240 I was telling him that we were just recently on fishing. 0:03:18.240 --> 0:03:21.639 Walleye on the lax Yes, if I caught some, Walley 0:03:22.360 --> 0:03:26.000 said yes. But I was more just as interested in 0:03:26.080 --> 0:03:29.200 catching while I I was interested in asking everybody why 0:03:29.280 --> 0:03:32.640 the obsession with Wally? Why do you think it is? 0:03:33.760 --> 0:03:36.760 I don't know. I think people appreciate the flavor and 0:03:36.880 --> 0:03:39.520 uh that it's a beautiful fish and it's pretty easy 0:03:39.560 --> 0:03:42.640 to filet. That's a great way. That's a great thing 0:03:42.680 --> 0:03:45.480 to say. Yeah, that's yeah, that's a good way to 0:03:45.480 --> 0:03:50.760 sell a fish monk fish or no, it's not like 0:03:50.760 --> 0:03:54.120 a shovel nose sturgeon. All the people I've asked this 0:03:54.200 --> 0:03:56.480 question to you the first person, I think that that 0:03:56.600 --> 0:04:00.120 has added that point that it's easy to filet. I'm 0:04:00.120 --> 0:04:02.520 gonna add that to everything I talk about now. I mean, 0:04:02.560 --> 0:04:04.520 you look at a northern it's like, No, I always 0:04:04.560 --> 0:04:06.840 talk about things that are hard to clean. Yeah, but 0:04:06.880 --> 0:04:10.120 no one ever praises, no one ever celebrates things that 0:04:10.160 --> 0:04:14.560 are easy to clean. I mean that's utilitarian. It's especially 0:04:14.720 --> 0:04:16.040 a lot of them. You got to be a writer. 0:04:17.400 --> 0:04:21.279 You're not that old though, Oh you are? Yeah, I 0:04:21.279 --> 0:04:24.240 got a baby face. No, I just did some rough math. 0:04:24.320 --> 0:04:25.919 Read your book. I did some rough math, and I 0:04:25.920 --> 0:04:29.320 had you pegged at twenty seven. Yeah, I don't know why, 0:04:29.640 --> 0:04:37.720 oh five seventeen, Okay, later ways the way, Oh you're 0:04:37.760 --> 0:04:44.479 good on Wally. Um, So you're from duluthep uh born 0:04:44.520 --> 0:04:48.760 and raised U born and raised in the Twin Cities suburbs. 0:04:49.160 --> 0:04:51.560 My wife's from Duluth. So that's what brought me there. 0:04:51.880 --> 0:04:54.480 So I was living up in Eally, Minnesota before um 0:04:54.680 --> 0:04:58.159 moving down to Duluth. Oh man, my old man loved 0:04:58.240 --> 0:05:01.360 Eli because before my time, my man was they would 0:05:01.360 --> 0:05:04.320 do big, long canoe trips. And I still have this, 0:05:04.520 --> 0:05:06.599 I still have I think I want to get framed. 0:05:06.640 --> 0:05:09.400 I have like his Duluth pack. Yeah, yeah, that says 0:05:09.480 --> 0:05:13.080 some canoe country outfitters on it stenciled on there, like 0:05:13.160 --> 0:05:15.400 the big leave. I had it rebuilt recently. I want 0:05:15.400 --> 0:05:17.320 to get it put in a glass frame it so 0:05:17.320 --> 0:05:18.800 I'm gonna hang ou on my wall or just keep 0:05:18.920 --> 0:05:22.680 using it. I moved to Duluth for an afternoon one 0:05:22.760 --> 0:05:28.360 time when I um moved. Well here here's the deal man. 0:05:28.800 --> 0:05:30.400 What was weird about it is when I got out 0:05:30.440 --> 0:05:34.400 of graduate school, I intended to take all the things 0:05:34.440 --> 0:05:38.120 I learned about UM, Like I started writing like in 0:05:38.200 --> 0:05:40.240 the West, right, and there's this very intense sort of 0:05:40.320 --> 0:05:45.239 sense of place in the West, and and I wanted 0:05:45.279 --> 0:05:49.600 to take that way of looking at the world and 0:05:49.680 --> 0:05:52.800 apply it to the Great Lakes. And so soon as 0:05:52.839 --> 0:05:54.560 I finished graduate, squad left because I was gonna go 0:05:54.600 --> 0:05:59.520 write a book about the Great Lakes. Um and my 0:05:59.640 --> 0:06:01.400 dad had just died, So I took his truck and 0:06:01.440 --> 0:06:05.440 I started doing all my research. And uh, I had 0:06:05.440 --> 0:06:07.440 a girlfriend at the time, and we're gonna move to. 0:06:08.400 --> 0:06:10.240 I was like, I thought, like, what better place to 0:06:10.279 --> 0:06:12.120 write about? The Great Lakes and Duluth like you kind 0:06:12.120 --> 0:06:13.839 of just nudged right out in it, you know. Yeah, 0:06:14.120 --> 0:06:15.960 there's some great stories up there. So I thought, maybe 0:06:16.040 --> 0:06:17.760 we'll just rand a place for six months here and 0:06:17.800 --> 0:06:19.880 then I'll move and to the kind of the other 0:06:20.040 --> 0:06:22.760 end of the lakes and live there. And I remember 0:06:22.800 --> 0:06:27.800 we were sitting in a bar, um looking at We're 0:06:27.839 --> 0:06:32.680 sitting in a bar looking at apartments and cottages for 0:06:32.760 --> 0:06:37.480 rent and whatnot. And my girlfriend got an email that 0:06:37.600 --> 0:06:43.320 she had uh gotten accepted into this writing fellowship awesome 0:06:44.240 --> 0:06:47.720 that she had to go to. And so that's just 0:06:47.960 --> 0:06:50.640 Aliso and everything kind of like went an upheaval and 0:06:50.720 --> 0:06:53.120 then wasn't long later I changed my mind. Anyway, I 0:06:53.160 --> 0:06:55.960 moved back out west, Yeah, but almost moved there. That's 0:06:56.000 --> 0:06:59.000 crazy and amazing how life just kind of switches. I 0:06:59.080 --> 0:07:01.360 knew these um we'll go down to this, we'll go 0:07:01.440 --> 0:07:04.720 down to your story in a minute. But it's cold 0:07:04.760 --> 0:07:07.599 as ship, right because I knew these girls. I knew 0:07:07.640 --> 0:07:09.480 these girls I met down in Key West that were 0:07:09.480 --> 0:07:12.360 telling me that they were students at um D and 0:07:12.400 --> 0:07:14.720 they were telling me one time they realized that they 0:07:14.760 --> 0:07:17.280 went a month without going outside. Yeah, because you can 0:07:17.360 --> 0:07:21.640 take tunnels everywhere. Yeah, that campus is just like super 0:07:21.760 --> 0:07:24.200 connected and really easy to get lost in because of 0:07:24.360 --> 0:07:26.160 you know, these buildings weren't originally made for it, so 0:07:26.160 --> 0:07:28.720 they're all just like kind of bolted together. But yeah, 0:07:28.760 --> 0:07:30.600 you don't need to go outside. You can spend a 0:07:30.680 --> 0:07:33.280 month in your bedroom slippers only from class and the 0:07:33.360 --> 0:07:39.040 cafeteria and stuff like that. Yep, exactly taking walks for exercise. Uh, 0:07:39.240 --> 0:07:40.600 what do you do, Like, what's your main thing you 0:07:40.640 --> 0:07:42.840 do for a living? Your writer? Uh So my day 0:07:42.920 --> 0:07:46.239 job is marketing for a hospital in town there called St. Luke's. 0:07:46.560 --> 0:07:49.160 So um. I started that about a year ago. Before that, 0:07:49.160 --> 0:07:51.160 I was doing marketing for an outdoor company called Frost 0:07:51.280 --> 0:07:53.760 River who makes traditional canoe packs kind of like the 0:07:53.840 --> 0:07:57.280 one You're dead had um. And uh yeah, so I've 0:07:57.280 --> 0:07:58.720 been to a marketing for a long time and the 0:07:58.840 --> 0:08:03.400 writing and photograph fe sidework, which is really vocationally exciting 0:08:03.480 --> 0:08:05.800 for me. You got a a scar on your legs 0:08:05.840 --> 0:08:09.000 more the bear guy I do. Yeah, drop your drawers 0:08:09.040 --> 0:08:12.240 and show us. It's kind of a compromising old it's 0:08:12.920 --> 0:08:15.920 it's in like a bad spot right. Oh, it's real high. Yeah, 0:08:16.080 --> 0:08:19.320 it's right right at the hip joint. So uh, it's 0:08:19.400 --> 0:08:23.080 like dropped drop trout and then lift up the boxers 0:08:23.160 --> 0:08:26.120 and then you can see it. So I don't show 0:08:26.160 --> 0:08:28.680 it plant company. No, you don't just walk around and 0:08:28.720 --> 0:08:31.240 walk into bars and and be what happened? Yeah, you 0:08:31.280 --> 0:08:34.520 get kicked out that way. Tell tell people about them. 0:08:36.559 --> 0:08:38.960 You're on a six hundred mile long canoe trip. It's right, 0:08:40.160 --> 0:08:43.960 lay that out. Yeah, So like what is the trip? 0:08:44.440 --> 0:08:50.120 The trip seventeen okay, yeah, let's see seventeen years old. 0:08:50.280 --> 0:08:52.440 Seventeen years old and you embark with some other kids 0:08:52.480 --> 0:08:56.719 on a six hundred mile long paddle. Yep. Yeah, this 0:08:56.880 --> 0:08:59.120 is the it's the pinnacle trip for the camp that 0:08:59.200 --> 0:09:01.920 we were going through. Um what yeah, you know what 0:09:03.960 --> 0:09:09.440 explained this camp? Yeah? So Camp Mino gin Um it's 0:09:09.520 --> 0:09:13.160 a wilderness trip based camp. It's started in I think 0:09:14.880 --> 0:09:19.880 um up in northern Minnesota, north of Grand Moray. It's 0:09:19.960 --> 0:09:24.520 like literally a few miles south of the Canadian border, 0:09:24.880 --> 0:09:27.440 right next to the boundary waters. UM. So they set 0:09:27.520 --> 0:09:30.240 up with the mission of um taking kids out for 0:09:30.640 --> 0:09:34.640 transformational experiences in a wilderness setting. But not bad kids. No, no, 0:09:34.880 --> 0:09:40.680 not like not like those um more yeah, oriented towards 0:09:40.960 --> 0:09:44.560 kids who have gotten in trouble or have chemical issues 0:09:44.640 --> 0:09:46.640 and things like that. You know, this is this is 0:09:47.000 --> 0:09:50.520 um kids that just want to have an adventure um 0:09:50.920 --> 0:09:54.600 and see the wild places. So like a regular summer camp, 0:09:54.679 --> 0:09:58.679 but just bumped up just a little higher notch of adventure. 0:09:58.800 --> 0:10:01.360 Yeah exactly. You know, it's it's not like a residential 0:10:01.400 --> 0:10:03.600 camp where you're getting up, you're eating in the cafeteria. 0:10:03.760 --> 0:10:06.040 You're going and do an archery and catching frogs and 0:10:06.720 --> 0:10:09.439 uh doing arts and crafts and stuff, which isn't to 0:10:09.520 --> 0:10:11.199 knock that at all. That's a really fun experience, but 0:10:11.280 --> 0:10:14.079 this is just different from that. UM. So you get 0:10:14.120 --> 0:10:16.920 to camp and you get packed out and there you know, 0:10:16.960 --> 0:10:19.280 they kind of act like an outfitter in that sense. Um. 0:10:19.559 --> 0:10:21.520 I thought one of the most interesting things about the 0:10:21.600 --> 0:10:26.480 camp was that you don't take a car to base 0:10:26.520 --> 0:10:29.600 camp or two headquarters. Yeah. Yeah. So it's this amazing 0:10:29.679 --> 0:10:33.040 spot um like literally right on the edge of the 0:10:33.040 --> 0:10:35.480 boundary waters. You have to go across the lake to 0:10:35.720 --> 0:10:38.240 get to it, and there's like an old ATV trail 0:10:38.320 --> 0:10:40.319 that you can take around the lake to get there. 0:10:40.400 --> 0:10:43.640 But um, camp itself is just kind of out there, 0:10:43.720 --> 0:10:45.480 so you feel like you're I mean, you really are 0:10:45.520 --> 0:10:49.319 in the wilderness even when you're at base camp. Is 0:10:49.360 --> 0:10:52.040 it mostly is it like like blue collar kids are 0:10:52.080 --> 0:10:56.079 mostly wealthy kids. Uh, it's it's a mixture, um, you know, 0:10:56.320 --> 0:10:59.760 and that's super intentional to um. There's like scholarship programs 0:10:59.840 --> 0:11:04.920 for if you can't afford the fees and scholarship. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, 0:11:05.000 --> 0:11:08.040 so I actually was recipient of a partial scholarship for 0:11:08.080 --> 0:11:10.600 this longer trip. You can also be like a work 0:11:10.679 --> 0:11:14.840 camper where you're at camp as like a residential camper 0:11:14.920 --> 0:11:18.800 and you're helping out around camp with like chores and whatever, 0:11:19.000 --> 0:11:20.960 and you know, having a lot of friends, a lot 0:11:21.040 --> 0:11:23.880 of fun with friends and kids rage and UM, that's 0:11:23.920 --> 0:11:27.880 a really cool experience too. Um. But yeah, you know, 0:11:28.040 --> 0:11:30.160 it's a it's a wide range of folks that go there. 0:11:30.240 --> 0:11:33.880 But sessions start with like really short kind of intro um. 0:11:34.000 --> 0:11:35.840 I think they even have a shorter session now that's 0:11:35.880 --> 0:11:38.040 like five days or something. Um, but at the time, 0:11:38.120 --> 0:11:40.400 the shortest session was eight days. And my parents were like, 0:11:40.440 --> 0:11:42.640 we're going on this trip, and like, okay, I would 0:11:42.640 --> 0:11:45.480 go into the boundary waters uh for a long time 0:11:45.520 --> 0:11:48.800 with my family. But my parents were had heard great 0:11:48.840 --> 0:11:50.840 things and they kind of sent me on that first 0:11:50.880 --> 0:11:54.200 trip to you just go up and do a trip. Yeah, 0:11:54.360 --> 0:11:56.000 I got you. Yeah. So it's now like you spend 0:11:56.080 --> 0:11:58.680 your summer there, No, no go and do a canoe trip. Yeah, 0:11:58.760 --> 0:12:00.840 in the going to a canoe trip. Um. There's also 0:12:00.960 --> 0:12:05.079 like backpacking trips, um climbing trips, things like that. Um. 0:12:05.480 --> 0:12:08.000 So it's just amazing experiences and you know, you're with 0:12:08.120 --> 0:12:10.679 your contemporaries and you're also with guides who are you know, 0:12:10.800 --> 0:12:12.839 really well versed in what you're doing. And we're not 0:12:13.000 --> 0:12:16.600 old not old, No, I mean they're you know, um 0:12:16.720 --> 0:12:21.040 they're adults. Uh, but they're not like middle aged. Were 0:12:21.080 --> 0:12:25.760 your parents adventures they were? Yeah? Maybe still, well they're 0:12:25.800 --> 0:12:28.560 getting they're they're both retired, so the adventure, the type 0:12:28.600 --> 0:12:31.080 of adventure has changed a little bit. But um, they're 0:12:31.160 --> 0:12:35.080 both in anthropology. Um. So my dad was a professor 0:12:35.280 --> 0:12:38.480 of anthropology at Hammond University. Um the whole time I 0:12:38.559 --> 0:12:41.480 was growing up. My mom um was an adjunct professor 0:12:41.559 --> 0:12:44.440 and worked in administration and stuff. And they both worked 0:12:44.480 --> 0:12:48.199 together and they teach study abroad trips um every January, 0:12:48.280 --> 0:12:53.400 so we'd go in two of these ancient sites and Mexico. Yeah, 0:12:54.040 --> 0:12:58.240 so I was climbing up temples in Mexico when I 0:12:58.320 --> 0:13:01.480 was three with them for at before that, they did 0:13:01.600 --> 0:13:06.319 field work like in um Guatemal, I think, and other 0:13:06.440 --> 0:13:09.520 Central American companies or countries where they're setting up with 0:13:09.840 --> 0:13:11.960 hammocks in the jungle and you gotta check your boots 0:13:12.000 --> 0:13:16.000 for spiders and your archaeological pits for snakes and stuff, 0:13:16.080 --> 0:13:20.280 and breaking up machete fights between the workers and whatever. 0:13:20.440 --> 0:13:23.400 So they definitely, uh brought a sense of adventure to 0:13:23.720 --> 0:13:26.079 bring it up myself and my sister. So you know, 0:13:26.160 --> 0:13:28.800 it wasn't like totally out of the blue that they 0:13:28.840 --> 0:13:30.800 were like, hey, you should go on this trip, but 0:13:32.240 --> 0:13:35.280 you know, a hugely important decision for them to to 0:13:35.400 --> 0:13:37.920 send me there because um, you know, like I said, 0:13:37.960 --> 0:13:41.400 we've gone camping before, but going camping with this like 0:13:41.640 --> 0:13:44.480 organized group and and seeing how you can move and 0:13:44.800 --> 0:13:48.439 do all this stuff really efficiently, um was just kind 0:13:48.480 --> 0:13:50.760 of a paradigm shift for me because up in the 0:13:50.800 --> 0:13:52.680 boundary waters, you measure how far you have to carry 0:13:52.720 --> 0:13:56.000 your gear between lakes um in rods which is like 0:13:56.120 --> 0:13:59.600 seventeen and a half feet. Yeah, that's the thing. Yeah. Yeah, 0:14:00.200 --> 0:14:01.720 So it's like, oh, how long is that party? Oh 0:14:01.760 --> 0:14:04.240 it's five rods, that's super short, or it's three rods, 0:14:04.240 --> 0:14:07.040 which is a mile. Um and with my family it 0:14:07.160 --> 0:14:10.080 was like a hundred and fifty rods. That's like impossible. 0:14:10.200 --> 0:14:12.440 Did you learn how to think in rods? Oh? Yeah? 0:14:12.760 --> 0:14:15.920 You know. When I started hanging out in Southeast Alaska, 0:14:16.000 --> 0:14:18.559 we have a fish act there. Everybody does everything in 0:14:18.640 --> 0:14:25.040 fathoms and nice first all conversations, I would need to 0:14:25.120 --> 0:14:31.120 like be running math, right, but after whatever, I know, years, Yeah, 0:14:31.360 --> 0:14:34.160 I gotta do with the opposite. Now, let's see how 0:14:34.160 --> 0:14:36.400 many fathom? Yeah? Like I think like I think in 0:14:36.480 --> 0:14:38.640 fathoms only when I'm up there. When I'm up there, 0:14:38.640 --> 0:14:40.560 I think in fathoms. And someone says like feet, I 0:14:40.600 --> 0:14:42.440 gotta go like hold I'm at and go the other 0:14:42.520 --> 0:14:46.320 direction because I just conceptualize, right, I've learned to conceptualize 0:14:46.360 --> 0:14:49.600 in fathoms. Tell me again, how many feet fathom? Six 0:14:49.640 --> 0:14:52.040 ft six? I wonder if that's where they're saying, like, 0:14:52.200 --> 0:14:56.000 you can't fathom something that comes from? Uh you know, 0:14:56.240 --> 0:14:59.520 do you know where where the measurement the rod comes from. 0:15:00.160 --> 0:15:02.720 Oh I should know it's uh, this is I don't 0:15:02.720 --> 0:15:04.360 believe this is where it came from. But it's the 0:15:04.520 --> 0:15:09.240 length of an old Minnesota guide canoe. You know, Mark Twain. 0:15:09.520 --> 0:15:13.000 I think it's related to surveying though originally say you 0:15:13.080 --> 0:15:16.000 know the author, Mark Twain, Samuel Clemens, you know his 0:15:16.200 --> 0:15:18.840 pen name, like Mark Twain is his pen name. His 0:15:19.320 --> 0:15:22.600 given name is Samuel Clemens. Mark Twain is that they 0:15:22.640 --> 0:15:25.480 would and the old steamboats that have a dude up 0:15:25.520 --> 0:15:27.720 front with a rope that had knots tied in an 0:15:27.920 --> 0:15:31.720 increments there's six ft increments. Ny, that's a good little 0:15:31.720 --> 0:15:35.320 project for you to work on right now. Um, yeah, 0:15:35.320 --> 0:15:41.520 we've done this one before time. And the riverboat captain's 0:15:41.520 --> 0:15:43.800 got dude up front with a weight on a rope 0:15:43.880 --> 0:15:46.720 with knots, and he and the dudes yelling out what 0:15:46.880 --> 0:15:52.280 not depth? And Mark Twain second second, not is safe passage? 0:15:52.320 --> 0:15:54.680 Good water? So when you're a riverboat, calf you like 0:15:54.760 --> 0:15:58.200 that dude up front, were going, Mark Twain, Mark Twain, 0:15:58.600 --> 0:16:01.920 that means good ship and sing? Yeah. So you portage 0:16:01.920 --> 0:16:05.000 and rods, yeah, see portage and rods and and uh 0:16:05.320 --> 0:16:09.960 my perception of what was like achievable was totally different 0:16:10.040 --> 0:16:13.320 once I went on that first trip with camp and uh, 0:16:13.600 --> 0:16:16.000 I just I was hooked right after that. What's a 0:16:16.080 --> 0:16:17.840 long ass portage in your mind? Don't give it to 0:16:17.880 --> 0:16:24.000 me in rods, fathoms, uh, miles yards, whatever the hell 0:16:24.000 --> 0:16:26.720 you want to do? Yeah, well, uh, I mean when 0:16:26.760 --> 0:16:29.800 you get a standard but long ass portage, a standard 0:16:29.840 --> 0:16:33.680 but long. I'm a fan. I enjoy portaging, which is uh, 0:16:34.200 --> 0:16:37.720 you know some some people can't understand that. But um, 0:16:38.880 --> 0:16:42.360 between like one and two miles is like, this is good, Okay, 0:16:42.680 --> 0:16:44.920 I enjoy that. You know, you get into the mode 0:16:45.520 --> 0:16:48.520 and um you get to the end and you're just 0:16:48.600 --> 0:16:51.840 super stoked to be ready to put your boat down 0:16:52.440 --> 0:16:55.360 because I want to bump into this six hundred mile journey. 0:16:55.440 --> 0:16:57.480 So you did a number of trips over the years. Yeah, 0:16:57.600 --> 0:17:01.960 it's sort of the pinnacle. Yep. The hell week sure 0:17:02.560 --> 0:17:05.280 is the how long I take you guys to go 0:17:05.320 --> 0:17:06.920 six hundred miles? Or how long should it take to 0:17:06.920 --> 0:17:10.280 go six This is a forty two day session, um 0:17:10.600 --> 0:17:14.040 so uh A couple of days less than that was 0:17:14.320 --> 0:17:16.040 was you know, end to end kind of what the 0:17:16.119 --> 0:17:18.440 goal was? Yeah, and like and The reason we're bringing 0:17:18.560 --> 0:17:22.120 up porridges because this trip is it's it's you got 0:17:22.160 --> 0:17:24.680 just on a river for six hundred miles, right, You're 0:17:24.720 --> 0:17:27.879 bumping from system to system. So you like get on 0:17:27.960 --> 0:17:30.000 a lake, the lake flows into your river. You go 0:17:30.119 --> 0:17:32.639 to another lake, that lake that lakes frozen, you drag. 0:17:32.760 --> 0:17:37.000 You should across the ice. Then you like drag. Then 0:17:37.040 --> 0:17:40.200 you portage over into some whole other river system. Yeah, 0:17:40.840 --> 0:17:44.840 and then move through that network, right, and it's and 0:17:44.920 --> 0:17:48.280 then you always need to go round rapids and everything. Yeah. Yeah, 0:17:48.359 --> 0:17:50.119 So our route was amazing. I mean we started out 0:17:50.119 --> 0:17:53.480 in the Northwest Territories UM on the Dublant River and 0:17:53.600 --> 0:17:58.880 made our way into nunavit Um and then eventually got 0:17:58.960 --> 0:18:02.440 off the Dublant and d of did this um not 0:18:02.560 --> 0:18:05.240 exactly height of land, but this sort of traverse into 0:18:05.320 --> 0:18:10.040 another river system, the coon Walk Um, and made our 0:18:10.080 --> 0:18:12.240 way down that and then ended up on the Kazan. 0:18:12.600 --> 0:18:15.760 And so it was a really unique route. UM that 0:18:16.280 --> 0:18:18.920 was a combination of rivers that Camp and other people 0:18:19.000 --> 0:18:21.639 had done, but we we hadn't seen another trip that 0:18:21.720 --> 0:18:24.200 had actually taken this route in this traverse, so we're 0:18:24.280 --> 0:18:27.280 kind of felt like we were breaking trail and you guys, 0:18:27.560 --> 0:18:30.840 you guys kind of architected your own journey. Yeah. Yeah, 0:18:30.880 --> 0:18:33.080 I mean, you know, the the Six of Us, which 0:18:33.119 --> 0:18:36.080 includes the guide, you know, confabd about you know what 0:18:36.240 --> 0:18:40.520 we wanted to have the trip b and and discussed 0:18:40.520 --> 0:18:43.399 a couple of different options and um, this one. You know, 0:18:43.440 --> 0:18:47.520 in addition to having that traverse and these different river 0:18:47.640 --> 0:18:50.959 systems which were very different in terms of the field. Um, 0:18:51.200 --> 0:18:54.359 it also went from the tiger forest, which is like 0:18:54.480 --> 0:18:58.800 scrub trees. Um. So the largest biome in the world. Yeah, 0:18:58.840 --> 0:19:02.000 it was the tiger Yeah. And it's just amazing. Uh. 0:19:02.200 --> 0:19:04.440 It's kind of like everything is in miniature, but they're 0:19:04.440 --> 0:19:07.760 still trees and everything. Um, and they're black spruce, poplar, 0:19:08.920 --> 0:19:11.480 yep and shrubs. And when you're like when you roll 0:19:11.600 --> 0:19:16.639 in like Siberia and Russia, Yeah, and then Canada, I 0:19:16.680 --> 0:19:19.359 think it's Yeah, I've read multiple times the largest biome 0:19:19.440 --> 0:19:22.360 on the planet, like the largest like habitat type. Yeah 0:19:22.480 --> 0:19:25.879 that exists. Yeah, and it's it's like the threshold between 0:19:26.200 --> 0:19:27.960 I don't know what's south of that as far as 0:19:28.040 --> 0:19:31.320 biomas go, but it's kind of the next step north 0:19:31.680 --> 0:19:35.280 is the tundra. So it's like right on the edge. UM, 0:19:36.400 --> 0:19:41.119 tell people about um sort of your perception of what 0:19:41.240 --> 0:19:43.840 it would be like to like travel across into the 0:19:44.760 --> 0:19:47.160 tree line. You know, when you look at old maps, 0:19:47.160 --> 0:19:49.720 you'll see on old maps they use, you'll see this 0:19:49.960 --> 0:19:53.880 line here and there it'll say the limit of wooded country. 0:19:54.160 --> 0:19:56.800 Oh nice and old maps. But talk about like what, 0:19:57.119 --> 0:19:59.560 like what that transition looked like. So do your expectation 0:19:59.600 --> 0:20:01.960 of what that would be like and what it was like? Like? Yeah, 0:20:02.200 --> 0:20:05.520 so I in my mind, you know, we're discussing this 0:20:06.000 --> 0:20:08.879 um looking over maps and everything, and we didn't have 0:20:09.000 --> 0:20:11.520 that description. It was kind of like the green zone 0:20:11.600 --> 0:20:15.200 turned into the whatever, you know, white zone. Uh. And 0:20:15.280 --> 0:20:17.480 that was right across the middle of Dublant Lake, which 0:20:17.600 --> 0:20:22.520 is the largest lake in ninevet Um. And I just 0:20:22.640 --> 0:20:26.639 imagine kind of pushing off from shore on Dublant and 0:20:28.240 --> 0:20:31.600 paddling across the lake, which in my mind was we 0:20:31.640 --> 0:20:33.760 couldn't see either shore. You know, you never do that. 0:20:33.840 --> 0:20:35.360 You never paddle in the middle of the lake where 0:20:35.359 --> 0:20:39.800 you can't see shore. It's really big. Yeah, isn't it 0:20:39.880 --> 0:20:42.760 intimidating to get out? Like why don't like you wouldn't 0:20:42.760 --> 0:20:44.159 do that? You wouldn't go in the middle of the 0:20:44.240 --> 0:20:46.040 lake because if a storm came up or whatever. You've 0:20:46.040 --> 0:20:49.400 been in a pretty bad situation. But that big, yeah, 0:20:49.680 --> 0:20:51.600 I mean you could probably see a sliver of it. 0:20:51.840 --> 0:20:54.080 But in my mind's eye, I was like, we're gonna 0:20:54.080 --> 0:20:56.160 be paddling, we won't see shore, it's gonna be foggy, 0:20:56.200 --> 0:20:57.840 We're gonna push off. There's gonna be trees. We'll get 0:20:57.840 --> 0:21:01.320 to the other side, completely understand. Yeah, So in my 0:21:01.440 --> 0:21:03.000 mind's eye, that's what it was gonna be, is like 0:21:03.400 --> 0:21:07.159 you know, a switch flipping, like trees, no trees, And 0:21:07.840 --> 0:21:09.879 in reality, it was just kind of like all the 0:21:10.000 --> 0:21:14.560 trees just kept getting smaller and smaller and fewer and 0:21:14.680 --> 0:21:19.560 farther between until you kind of don't even realize you're 0:21:19.600 --> 0:21:23.359 in this place that just doesn't have any trees, and 0:21:23.440 --> 0:21:26.720 the shrubs are like hidden in little hollows and stuff. 0:21:26.800 --> 0:21:31.280 There's just like very very little vegetation that grows of 0:21:31.359 --> 0:21:34.080 any height at all. We've experienced that on the Dalton Highway. 0:21:34.160 --> 0:21:35.960 You've crossed that a number of the tree line a 0:21:36.040 --> 0:21:38.600 number of times, and it's like a gradual petering out 0:21:39.280 --> 0:21:42.879 like just like just like you described it, just everything 0:21:42.960 --> 0:21:45.840 just sort of slows down and then there's no trees 0:21:45.880 --> 0:21:47.920 and I think one point we're like, holy sh it, 0:21:47.960 --> 0:21:53.280 there's no trees and sign right next to like the 0:21:53.480 --> 0:21:59.600 last black spruce, and they it was like there's a 0:21:59.680 --> 0:22:02.119 really yeah, I mean the last Braxts boots you can 0:22:02.119 --> 0:22:04.000 see from that spot. There's a really good book about 0:22:04.280 --> 0:22:09.480 um the Natural History of Alaska. And you know when 0:22:09.520 --> 0:22:11.480 you see like when you're going across the tree line 0:22:11.600 --> 0:22:13.879 the limited wooded country and then you see like some 0:22:14.080 --> 0:22:16.720 tree that's like the from whatever your perspective is at 0:22:16.760 --> 0:22:20.440 a given time, it looks like the last one. It's 0:22:20.800 --> 0:22:25.240 tempting to imagine it as like a pioneer, Yeah, whose 0:22:25.320 --> 0:22:29.000 seed like blue up there? Yeah, But in this book 0:22:29.000 --> 0:22:31.920 it explains that what you're typically looking at our remnants, Yeah, 0:22:32.000 --> 0:22:34.320 it's the last one. It's the last one left, not 0:22:34.480 --> 0:22:36.160 the first. It's not the first one there, you're looking 0:22:36.200 --> 0:22:39.080 at the last one left, and that you're still seeing 0:22:39.160 --> 0:22:41.120 the effects of the end of the ice age right 0:22:42.240 --> 0:22:46.600 of that of that line moving. Yeah, it's wild, and 0:22:46.680 --> 0:22:49.120 I mean the remnants of the ice age up there 0:22:49.280 --> 0:22:52.440 just so tangible in a way that's totally different from 0:22:53.080 --> 0:22:55.760 any other place I've been down here, like you know, 0:22:55.880 --> 0:22:57.760 you see stuff and you have to like think about, oh, 0:22:57.880 --> 0:23:01.359 like that boulder was dropped by the last ice age. 0:23:01.960 --> 0:23:06.640 But up there there's these things called um eskers, which 0:23:06.680 --> 0:23:09.359 are remnants of old glacial rivers, so that all the 0:23:09.440 --> 0:23:13.679 sediment would be, you know, in in the ice at 0:23:13.680 --> 0:23:15.800 the bottom of this glacial river, and then when the 0:23:16.520 --> 0:23:19.920 uh glaciers recede, that sediment drops down and it's the 0:23:20.000 --> 0:23:21.720 river bottom. But now it's a ridge that makes a 0:23:21.840 --> 0:23:26.160 raised sidewalk, often flat, often flat, awesome to portage on, great, 0:23:26.880 --> 0:23:30.480 great traveling, hard to portage up, hard to get on top, 0:23:30.800 --> 0:23:34.040 but then smooth. So how many people you got with us? 0:23:34.359 --> 0:23:35.640 How many people you get with you on the trip? 0:23:35.720 --> 0:23:38.960 There were six of us, two three canoes, three canoes, 0:23:39.160 --> 0:23:42.399 and you got one like, uh, like I don't know 0:23:42.560 --> 0:23:45.480 a guide counselor yep, howlds that guy? So he was 0:23:45.520 --> 0:23:47.800 in his mid twenties because in the pictures he looks 0:23:47.840 --> 0:23:50.440 young and we all look you yeah you do, but 0:23:50.520 --> 0:23:52.080 it looks like it. He looked like there's a guy. 0:23:52.160 --> 0:23:55.439 So he's in his mid twenties. Yeah, yeah, lots of experience. Um, 0:23:55.520 --> 0:23:59.480 he was pretty experienced. Wo yeah, yeah, he yep. We 0:23:59.600 --> 0:24:02.800 all the of Um we at the end of each 0:24:02.880 --> 0:24:04.520 trip with camp, we get a little we tie a 0:24:04.520 --> 0:24:07.240 little bracelet for each other. Um that's kind of too 0:24:07.840 --> 0:24:11.840 commemorate the trip. And um, you're theoretically gonna wear it, 0:24:11.960 --> 0:24:13.879 you know, uh as long as you can kind of 0:24:13.920 --> 0:24:17.280 a reminder of everything you learned. And his forearm was 0:24:17.359 --> 0:24:19.960 just like covered in it. I noticed that one of 0:24:20.000 --> 0:24:24.960 the pictures. I was wondering if he had an injury. 0:24:25.840 --> 0:24:27.960 I saw it. No, those are each one of those 0:24:28.119 --> 0:24:32.200 is a trip that he went on or guided. Um. Yeah. 0:24:32.920 --> 0:24:35.520 So and at one point in time, this being like 0:24:35.640 --> 0:24:37.960 the Pinnacle Trip. Yeah, at one point time. This is 0:24:38.000 --> 0:24:42.000 what's kind of ironic is they used to run the 0:24:42.080 --> 0:24:47.920 Pinnacle trip, yeah, to the East, but quit doing it 0:24:48.840 --> 0:24:52.560 because of fears of polar bears. Right so, but no 0:24:52.640 --> 0:24:54.520 one ever got hit by a polar bear. Right. No, 0:24:55.240 --> 0:24:57.760 there were some some near misses that you know, they 0:24:58.359 --> 0:25:00.159 paid attention to, and we're like, all right, you know, 0:25:00.320 --> 0:25:03.400 polar bears are uh, well, for one thing, polar bears 0:25:03.440 --> 0:25:08.400 will stock humans. Um. And that's a level of creepy 0:25:08.520 --> 0:25:12.800 that is, you know, if you're going for for a 0:25:13.080 --> 0:25:15.520 canoe adventure and stuff. You know, it's kind of something 0:25:15.640 --> 0:25:17.920 you want to not have as part of your trip. 0:25:18.520 --> 0:25:21.119 I'll be worrying about a polar bear that's like following 0:25:21.160 --> 0:25:25.400 you from camp to camp and stuff like that. No, uh, 0:25:25.840 --> 0:25:27.119 I never have, and I would like to you. And 0:25:27.160 --> 0:25:29.120 a friend of mine, a taskm exposure to him, talks 0:25:29.119 --> 0:25:32.600 about just the creepiness of them following you around. Yeah. 0:25:32.960 --> 0:25:36.720 I can't imagine. I mean, it just be hard to sleep. 0:25:36.840 --> 0:25:41.680 And so they moved it over into grizzly country. Yeah, yep. 0:25:42.080 --> 0:25:46.320 And what are your as you're on this long trip? Yeah, 0:25:46.640 --> 0:25:50.520 reminder me how many days forty two days? When you're 0:25:50.560 --> 0:25:53.440 on this long trip, what are your conversations and what 0:25:53.560 --> 0:25:56.960 are your what is your awareness about that? Like, oh, 0:25:57.119 --> 0:25:58.960 there's grizzlies, you know what I mean, because I think that, 0:25:59.119 --> 0:26:02.880 like like I found life. It's like, um, I feel 0:26:03.000 --> 0:26:04.760 like you have all the things that you think are 0:26:04.960 --> 0:26:08.000 a problem. Yeah, you know, you're like aware of like 0:26:08.119 --> 0:26:11.080 these are the problems. Yeah, but then the problems are 0:26:11.119 --> 0:26:17.600 always something else, right oftentimes, Yeah, like you get blindsided 0:26:17.880 --> 0:26:21.399 by the actual things right right, Like you think, like 0:26:21.680 --> 0:26:23.800 you gotta clean your garage and that's a real problem. 0:26:23.840 --> 0:26:25.960 But then like your kid is lyme disease and you're like, wow, 0:26:26.040 --> 0:26:28.440 it wasn't you know, it wasn't on my radar like 0:26:28.520 --> 0:26:31.399 you always. But here you are like presumably you're like, 0:26:31.560 --> 0:26:35.440 oh and there's like grizzlies and that's a problem, a 0:26:35.960 --> 0:26:38.920 thing of concern. Yeah, something to be aware of. Um. 0:26:39.160 --> 0:26:40.560 So yeah, I mean we were aware of it before 0:26:40.600 --> 0:26:44.439 we left UM camp in Northern Minnesota. You know, we did, uh, 0:26:44.920 --> 0:26:48.480 we did training at camp on what you're supposed to do, 0:26:48.800 --> 0:26:52.520 you know, sitting around talking about we had bear spray 0:26:53.000 --> 0:26:55.960 pepper spray walking through you know, how to use that 0:26:56.480 --> 0:27:00.040 using the practice cans. Uh not at that point with 0:27:00.119 --> 0:27:03.600 the inactive ingredients. No, No, Um, we did. We were 0:27:03.880 --> 0:27:07.439 you know, using the cans and kind of going through 0:27:07.480 --> 0:27:10.280 the motions and everything. Um. But everything about the plunger 0:27:10.359 --> 0:27:15.960 press so um. But that training look like what was 0:27:16.000 --> 0:27:17.560 the training, Like here's the thing and here's how to 0:27:17.680 --> 0:27:20.879 use it. Yeah. And then I mean it wasn't like 0:27:21.280 --> 0:27:23.240 thirty seconds. You know, we spent some time on it, 0:27:23.760 --> 0:27:26.159 um to the point where when we were done, I 0:27:26.280 --> 0:27:30.560 felt very comfortable with how to use it. Um. But 0:27:30.640 --> 0:27:33.600 you still just left in du tent. Yeah. Yeah, I 0:27:33.600 --> 0:27:38.480 should have carried it. Yeah yeah, um yeah, you have 0:27:38.600 --> 0:27:39.960 to have it on you in order to be able 0:27:39.960 --> 0:27:42.320 to use it. So so you guys like took it seriously, 0:27:42.359 --> 0:27:46.000 but not that seriously. So yeah, right, we we had it. 0:27:46.480 --> 0:27:48.439 We we did that training, we did other training as 0:27:48.480 --> 0:27:51.159 far as like here's what you do in general. Um, 0:27:51.359 --> 0:27:53.920 you know when you see it and then, um, we've 0:27:53.960 --> 0:27:56.880 been told that it was really really weird to even 0:27:56.960 --> 0:27:59.760 see one up there and you can see forever. You know, 0:27:59.800 --> 0:28:01.720 they no trees, you're up on high points a lot, 0:28:01.880 --> 0:28:04.840 and you can see just everywhere. Um, So we kind 0:28:04.840 --> 0:28:06.560 of went into it with like they're there, but they're 0:28:06.560 --> 0:28:09.520 not like prevalent. Yeah, and they're a way different critter 0:28:09.640 --> 0:28:12.639 than the coastal ones. Oh yeah, just wait, like just 0:28:12.800 --> 0:28:15.680 like yeah, you just go forever and there's one way 0:28:15.760 --> 0:28:19.760 off in the distance off towns are scared shitless of people. Yeah, 0:28:20.000 --> 0:28:23.600 like I'm just going there. They're not acclimated into all 0:28:23.680 --> 0:28:26.000 the people. They see it and they're like that's whatever 0:28:26.080 --> 0:28:29.240 that is is not good. Yeah, exactly, there's a more 0:28:29.440 --> 0:28:34.719 kind of just a little more um, a little kind 0:28:34.800 --> 0:28:36.399 more wigged out all the time, you know, I mean 0:28:36.480 --> 0:28:39.800 just kind of a cage or sort of yeah. Yeah, 0:28:39.840 --> 0:28:41.720 and they're you know, they don't have like salmon streams 0:28:41.760 --> 0:28:43.800 where they're just picking dinner out and whatever. They're they're 0:28:43.840 --> 0:28:46.600 pretty nomadic. They have a pretty wide range, which I 0:28:46.680 --> 0:28:50.680 understand is more wide than like a coastal grizzly. Yeah, 0:28:50.920 --> 0:28:54.480 extremely low population densities right where one of these things 0:28:54.600 --> 0:28:57.320 might have one of these bears up in these areas, 0:28:57.400 --> 0:29:01.800 he might have a hundred square mile home range. Yeah, yeah, 0:29:02.320 --> 0:29:05.680 or bigger maybe. I mean, I have to I have 0:29:05.840 --> 0:29:08.480 to look at the biology of it, but it's a 0:29:08.600 --> 0:29:11.880 pretty wide range that they go. Um. But in addition 0:29:11.920 --> 0:29:13.320 to the bear spray and just kind of like the 0:29:13.400 --> 0:29:17.000 other protocols, we had um bear poppers, which are these 0:29:17.400 --> 0:29:20.040 noisemaking devices that you shoot with a like a bolt 0:29:20.080 --> 0:29:22.800 action little pen and then it fires off this thing 0:29:22.880 --> 0:29:25.120 and it goes just goes boom and it's just a 0:29:25.240 --> 0:29:29.040 noise deterrent. Did you experiment with those? No, that was 0:29:29.240 --> 0:29:31.040 that was like, here's how you use it, but you 0:29:31.080 --> 0:29:33.360 guys shouldn't use this, Like that's that's more something that 0:29:33.440 --> 0:29:36.400 the guy should use. If that comes up. You don't 0:29:36.400 --> 0:29:37.719 know what they want to ask about me, And as 0:29:37.720 --> 0:29:43.760 I asked about it now, the films like yes, the 0:29:43.840 --> 0:29:47.760 girls group we mispronounced, we mispronounced, the French names we 0:29:47.840 --> 0:29:53.920 say fombs known mispronounced. I can't reading, like the violent 0:29:54.000 --> 0:30:00.720 films yeah, or the French like so yeah, Um, you 0:30:00.760 --> 0:30:03.000 guys got your trip. There's a guy's trip, boys trip, 0:30:03.400 --> 0:30:05.320 and there's a girl's trip, and they're kind of parallel 0:30:05.360 --> 0:30:08.360 on parallel river systems. The reason I was gonna ask 0:30:08.360 --> 0:30:10.280 you about this, when I was a boy, if you 0:30:10.400 --> 0:30:13.800 were out like on a long canoe journey and you 0:30:13.880 --> 0:30:18.680 were occasionally coming across an encampment of girls, oh boy, 0:30:19.400 --> 0:30:20.880 I feel that there would be like you wouldn't be 0:30:20.920 --> 0:30:24.920 able to pull them apart. For you guys avoid each other. Yeah, 0:30:26.160 --> 0:30:31.840 specifically exactly exactly are you guys ranted? You guys rated 0:30:31.880 --> 0:30:33.560 each other. You were out of all kinds of you 0:30:33.600 --> 0:30:36.440 guys would like rain all your food reserves like you 0:30:37.040 --> 0:30:40.080 you guys are starving, well not starving. It was bad. 0:30:40.320 --> 0:30:43.320 We were we were being aware that we needed to 0:30:44.040 --> 0:30:46.120 be careful with how much food we had, and they 0:30:46.200 --> 0:30:49.400 had certain reserves. There was like there was a there 0:30:49.480 --> 0:30:51.400 was an exchange, like they had like plenty of some 0:30:51.520 --> 0:30:53.920 stuff that you were out of you guys have they 0:30:53.920 --> 0:30:56.840 didn't have the right fishing equipment. You guys are slaying 0:30:56.920 --> 0:30:59.800 Lake trout like it's nobody's business exactly. You like eating lakers. 0:31:00.000 --> 0:31:01.560 Oh my gosh, you're talking about how good they are, 0:31:02.000 --> 0:31:04.280 like a spokesman for the Lake Trout. Lake trout is 0:31:04.400 --> 0:31:06.680 my favorite. The pictures in the book. You got a 0:31:06.760 --> 0:31:09.320 couple like one of those things as a tanker. That's 0:31:09.400 --> 0:31:11.560 my like, the biggest fish in my life. It's probably 0:31:11.600 --> 0:31:14.400 gonna be the biggest Lake Troy to ever catch. Someday. 0:31:14.440 --> 0:31:17.720 I'm gonna make a graphite out of it. Incredible. Yeah, 0:31:17.840 --> 0:31:21.000 and I mean they're they're absolutely amazing eating. Um. I 0:31:21.080 --> 0:31:22.960 want to I want to return to the how do 0:31:23.000 --> 0:31:26.280 you say it again? The farms. But one of the 0:31:26.360 --> 0:31:28.000 coolest things, because I like to fish, one the cool 0:31:28.120 --> 0:31:31.440 things is when you're in that big gass lake. Yeah, 0:31:31.600 --> 0:31:33.040 and the ice is breaking up and you're kind of 0:31:33.040 --> 0:31:35.680 like dragging over the ice and trying to find leads. Yeah, 0:31:35.920 --> 0:31:38.560 you talk about the lakers are all up thinning. Yeah, 0:31:40.400 --> 0:31:43.360 that's the weirdest scene. It's crazy. I mean it's takes 0:31:43.400 --> 0:31:47.200 spoons though, Yeah, they took spoons. Um, I mean they 0:31:47.320 --> 0:31:51.440 just loved spoons and they were really easy to catch, 0:31:51.520 --> 0:31:53.320 so we just tossed one out and be like, are 0:31:53.400 --> 0:31:55.040 we we'd ask you know, hey, you guys want fish 0:31:55.080 --> 0:31:58.200 for dinner and toss went out and like you as 0:31:58.200 --> 0:32:01.080 many fish as you want? Yeah? Yeah, and you guys 0:32:01.200 --> 0:32:04.640 flamm and do what with them? Yeah? We'd filatm we'd um. 0:32:05.560 --> 0:32:10.000 I mean they're basically steaks them in the big one 0:32:10.040 --> 0:32:13.000 that you caught, right, Yeah, this fish is as long 0:32:13.080 --> 0:32:16.400 as your leg in that photograph. I'm not even holding 0:32:16.440 --> 0:32:19.560 it for it. It's so heavy. I'm just like and 0:32:19.600 --> 0:32:22.880 then I mean, did you guys eat that in one meal? Yeah? 0:32:24.440 --> 0:32:26.840 They're growing kids, we're grown kids. We're burning a lot 0:32:26.920 --> 0:32:29.920 of calories. Yeah, six people and you're low on pasta 0:32:30.120 --> 0:32:32.120 were a low impastas, are like, all right, a couple 0:32:32.120 --> 0:32:35.200 more fish meals? Um. So yeah, we pretty much just 0:32:35.280 --> 0:32:38.320 fried up. Though you don't much that, but you run 0:32:38.400 --> 0:32:41.280 into the farms out in the middle of nowhere. Yeah, uh, 0:32:41.960 --> 0:32:43.640 but yeah, you gotta kind of steer clear of them, 0:32:43.640 --> 0:32:48.560 probably because the camp, the boss man, the counselor makes 0:32:48.600 --> 0:32:50.760 you guys steering her, the guide makes you steer clear 0:32:50.800 --> 0:32:52.960 of them. No, I mean we're just like you gusn't 0:32:53.040 --> 0:32:55.880 joined forces the party, right, We didn't want to impose 0:32:55.960 --> 0:32:57.440 on their trip, you know. I mean when you're when 0:32:57.440 --> 0:32:59.959 you're on a long trip like this, the group dynamic 0:33:00.400 --> 0:33:04.200 are well, I mean they're for one thing, they're crucial, right. Um. 0:33:05.080 --> 0:33:07.520 The other thing is you know, it's it's like, uh, 0:33:08.120 --> 0:33:11.680 it's being made. Oh, it's almost being made in a vacuum. 0:33:11.840 --> 0:33:14.400 Like you don't have a bunch of different input points. 0:33:14.440 --> 0:33:17.360 You're not checking your Facebook, you're not interacting with a 0:33:17.400 --> 0:33:20.760 bunch of different people, Like, it's just your group that's 0:33:20.760 --> 0:33:24.000 out in the woods. And what you're making is something 0:33:24.040 --> 0:33:26.160 that's super special. And you know that was special for 0:33:26.200 --> 0:33:28.040 our group and special for their group, and we didn't 0:33:28.080 --> 0:33:32.800 want to, uh you know, have them have a different 0:33:32.840 --> 0:33:34.800 trip because of us or whatever. So you know, part 0:33:34.800 --> 0:33:39.719 of its mutual respect and uh yeah, so I was, uh, 0:33:40.000 --> 0:33:42.440 you know, I always want to act like when I 0:33:42.520 --> 0:33:44.880 tell this anecdote, I always want to act like I 0:33:45.040 --> 0:33:46.720 heard it, but I actually heard it from someone that 0:33:46.840 --> 0:33:49.200 heard it. But a friend of mine went to remember 0:33:49.240 --> 0:33:51.480 who else was I went to see a lecture by 0:33:51.480 --> 0:33:54.080 a guy that does these extraordinarily long canoe trips like 0:33:54.120 --> 0:33:57.920 what you're talking about, um, And he was talking about 0:33:57.920 --> 0:34:00.440 you know when you spend a weekend, you spend a 0:34:00.480 --> 0:34:04.800 weekend out of the woods, and you feel time slowing 0:34:04.880 --> 0:34:11.440 down and you feel your mind clearing, your thoughts are focusing, right, 0:34:12.280 --> 0:34:16.000 You're you're developing a sense of peace right at a 0:34:16.160 --> 0:34:22.000 rapid rate. He said, that still happens. It's still happening 0:34:22.160 --> 0:34:27.520 at that rate after thirty days. Yeah, that clarification line 0:34:27.800 --> 0:34:32.319 doesn't doesn't stop. Wow, I believe that, And I can 0:34:32.360 --> 0:34:34.440 see why you might get like in that zone. It 0:34:34.560 --> 0:34:39.280 might get that you didn't want, you didn't need outside, 0:34:40.280 --> 0:34:43.000 like you had your six guys, right, and you just 0:34:43.080 --> 0:34:46.400 didn't need the noise of other individuals, right. I mean, 0:34:46.440 --> 0:34:48.560 that's part of what's amazing about going on a trip 0:34:48.640 --> 0:34:50.200 like this. And you know, to your point, you don't 0:34:50.239 --> 0:34:52.800 need to be out for thirty days for that effect 0:34:52.920 --> 0:34:56.120 to start taking place. You know, you go into the 0:34:56.200 --> 0:34:59.360 boundary waters or whatever wild place you like to visit, 0:34:59.680 --> 0:35:03.080 and it starts to happen quickly, Like getting away from 0:35:03.200 --> 0:35:07.360 all that technology and everything and just being connected with 0:35:07.520 --> 0:35:12.719 nature and everything. It has a profound effect on on 0:35:12.880 --> 0:35:15.239 your psyche and and your body and your mind. And 0:35:15.840 --> 0:35:18.440 it's just it's one of the reasons that that I 0:35:18.520 --> 0:35:19.799 go out, and I think it's one of the reasons 0:35:19.800 --> 0:35:22.240 a lot of people go out. It's just that personal 0:35:22.320 --> 0:35:26.600 transformation and centering that happens when you guys during the 0:35:26.640 --> 0:35:30.640 whole trip. Um, it seems like you're kind of traveling 0:35:30.719 --> 0:35:35.640 through two kinds of water. One is just like one 0:35:35.719 --> 0:35:40.120 is just you're slogging right against the wind across lakes 0:35:41.040 --> 0:35:46.879 and it's just probably incredibly monotonous, right, And the other 0:35:47.440 --> 0:35:51.880 the other is that, um, you're often in situations that 0:35:51.920 --> 0:35:57.719 it feel like, like extremely threatening from white water. Yeah, 0:35:57.840 --> 0:36:01.600 and canyons feel that way. We're we're working within our 0:36:01.960 --> 0:36:03.880 with when their skill set and everything. But yeah, I 0:36:03.920 --> 0:36:09.040 mean when you're in it, Yeah, and then portaging around 0:36:09.080 --> 0:36:11.719 stuff all the time. Which of those two things do 0:36:11.760 --> 0:36:14.760 you prefer? Did you like just the just the going 0:36:15.560 --> 0:36:17.759 or did you like that that that stress of the 0:36:17.800 --> 0:36:21.480 white water. I really like both. I think both combined 0:36:21.600 --> 0:36:28.280 is is really awesome. Tentilating. That's great. Uh, talk about 0:36:28.480 --> 0:36:30.640 the implications of having a spray skirt or not a 0:36:30.680 --> 0:36:33.160 spray skirt, which I thought was pretty interesting. Yeah. So 0:36:33.400 --> 0:36:36.439 spray skirt is basically like a poncho that latches onto 0:36:36.520 --> 0:36:40.400 your boat um and then comes up to your person 0:36:40.760 --> 0:36:43.880 um and keeps water from coming over the sides or 0:36:43.920 --> 0:36:45.560 going over the top of the boat and getting into 0:36:45.600 --> 0:36:49.680 the boat um slash water. And in a two person canoe, 0:36:49.760 --> 0:36:51.799 it's is it connected or how does that work? There's 0:36:51.800 --> 0:36:53.640 a couple of different ways it can be set up. 0:36:53.640 --> 0:36:55.479 There might be just a bow skirt just for the front, 0:36:55.560 --> 0:36:57.880 or there might be like a full one where you know, 0:36:58.160 --> 0:37:00.880 both the bow and the stern person are like cinched 0:37:00.920 --> 0:37:04.440 in and there's uh all snaps all around the gunnals 0:37:04.880 --> 0:37:08.120 um the boat and that's like full protection. So UM, 0:37:08.320 --> 0:37:10.640 we didn't have them on ours just because it's kind 0:37:10.680 --> 0:37:14.840 of it was uh the mental hope that we wouldn't 0:37:14.920 --> 0:37:17.839 paddle as big a water if we didn't have that UM, 0:37:18.440 --> 0:37:21.320 And then uh policy switched not that long after to 0:37:21.400 --> 0:37:24.320 include them just because they are, UM they're helpful in 0:37:24.360 --> 0:37:26.200 making sure that that you're as safe as you can 0:37:26.280 --> 0:37:28.239 be out there and don't end up getting a bunch 0:37:28.280 --> 0:37:30.359 of water, because if you end up getting some water 0:37:30.480 --> 0:37:33.400 in your boat, it starts to affect how it handles 0:37:33.480 --> 0:37:36.920 pretty significantly. So UM. But because we didn't have them. 0:37:36.960 --> 0:37:39.560 We were, we were paddling super conservatively. But it's sort 0:37:39.600 --> 0:37:41.640 of a calculated decision you made. I mean, you could 0:37:41.680 --> 0:37:46.040 have had them. Yeah, but it invites, it could invite, 0:37:46.120 --> 0:37:48.560 you know, the decision to be like we got the skirts, 0:37:48.640 --> 0:37:52.080 let's do it. You know. Um, but I think if 0:37:52.120 --> 0:37:54.959 I went again, I would have the skirts and can't 0:37:55.080 --> 0:37:57.120 use the skirts now. Like I said, just because it's 0:37:57.160 --> 0:38:00.560 a it just raises your level of safety a little bit. 0:38:00.719 --> 0:38:03.080 You know, you're still paddling conservatively and you don't want 0:38:03.120 --> 0:38:06.560 to go into crazy stuff. Um, but it just it 0:38:06.680 --> 0:38:09.000 makes it so that smaller things don't become bigger things. 0:38:09.320 --> 0:38:13.080 There's this pioneering um mountain hunter. He's dead now, but 0:38:13.200 --> 0:38:15.400 his name is Duncan Gil Chris, and he would do 0:38:15.480 --> 0:38:17.520 a lot of things that no one had done. And 0:38:17.600 --> 0:38:20.080 he had a similar approach to crampons when he was 0:38:20.160 --> 0:38:25.520 hunting mountain goats brought him. Okay, but you do not 0:38:25.800 --> 0:38:29.279 put them on to get somewhere. Oh sure, you only 0:38:29.400 --> 0:38:32.800 put them on to get out of somewhere. Right. That 0:38:32.960 --> 0:38:35.440 was his like view on it, right, Like it invites 0:38:35.520 --> 0:38:39.440 a level like it invites that like next we can 0:38:39.480 --> 0:38:41.719 do it. Yeah, that next level of stuff, and you 0:38:41.760 --> 0:38:43.440 just had to make a rule for yourself. You know, 0:38:44.840 --> 0:38:47.880 I don't touch these to get somewhere. Yeah. Yeah, it's 0:38:47.920 --> 0:38:49.960 kind of like setting up bumpers, you know, so that 0:38:50.120 --> 0:38:54.960 you can't cheat in your mind. Yeah, explain to me 0:38:55.040 --> 0:38:59.160 some of the river hazards, recyclers, strainers. You do pretty 0:38:59.160 --> 0:39:01.520 good job of walk through all these things. Yeah. So 0:39:01.640 --> 0:39:03.360 there's a lot of different We call him all features 0:39:03.400 --> 0:39:08.279 basically in the rivers. Yeah, um so recyclers basically tumbling water. Um. 0:39:08.560 --> 0:39:12.160 I think some people call him haystacks. Um. Not positive 0:39:12.200 --> 0:39:14.640 on that. We want to fact check that. Okay, throw 0:39:14.800 --> 0:39:18.680 pillow into this pillow. So I get confused about so 0:39:18.760 --> 0:39:20.400 I look at it all as like, you know, I 0:39:20.680 --> 0:39:22.520 guess I kind of understand what it is, but I 0:39:22.560 --> 0:39:25.680 don't have the vocabulary that you have for it all. Yeah, 0:39:25.719 --> 0:39:29.759 and a really good resource for that is um uh Oh, 0:39:29.800 --> 0:39:31.640 I'm blanking on his name. He's like the pioneer of 0:39:32.160 --> 0:39:35.759 popular canoeing. Uh. He has a great book about it. 0:39:36.239 --> 0:39:38.520 But up in the boundary waters? Is he from that 0:39:38.680 --> 0:39:42.040 country you're thinking of it? No, it's not stew. It's 0:39:42.040 --> 0:39:45.479 like a big coffee table book with um all kinds 0:39:45.520 --> 0:39:49.839 of instructional information. Fine, I want I'll buy this book 0:39:49.920 --> 0:39:53.080 right now. Yeah. Yeah, it's awesome. Um, maybe when you 0:39:53.120 --> 0:39:58.600 guys a computer can check it out. Yeah. Oh and 0:39:58.680 --> 0:40:01.680 he's got he painted and he did a bunch of documentaries. 0:40:01.680 --> 0:40:07.040 But he's like the godfather of modern canoeing. And I'll 0:40:07.080 --> 0:40:10.200 probably pop up. But the number two hit will be, uh, 0:40:10.719 --> 0:40:13.399 the number two hit will probably this gentleman. Okay, gone 0:40:13.600 --> 0:40:15.560 explain some features for me. Yeah. So on the river, 0:40:15.600 --> 0:40:19.040 there's a bunch of different ways that the water interacts with, um, 0:40:19.440 --> 0:40:22.680 you know, the rocks and and the shoreline and different 0:40:22.680 --> 0:40:25.720 stuff that's in there. So um, there you're typically aiming 0:40:25.760 --> 0:40:28.520 for downstream vs, which literally form a V that points 0:40:28.560 --> 0:40:31.759 downstream and that's kind of like the safest way down um. 0:40:32.239 --> 0:40:35.000 And then behind the rocks or are they things, usually 0:40:35.040 --> 0:40:37.440 there's an eddie where the current is kind of swirling 0:40:37.480 --> 0:40:41.239 around and it's kind of going upstream. It's calmer water. Usually, Um, 0:40:42.239 --> 0:40:46.160 there are these kind of insidious ones called pillows, and 0:40:47.680 --> 0:40:49.000 no one want to see one. But I don't know what. 0:40:49.000 --> 0:40:51.480 I don't understand the hydraulics of it. So basically, the 0:40:51.600 --> 0:40:55.560 water uh is pushing up and over something and that's 0:40:55.640 --> 0:40:59.120 something you know, it's a rock or a log or whatever, 0:40:59.560 --> 0:41:03.040 but it's it's pushing over it smoothly. So when you're 0:41:03.080 --> 0:41:06.160 looking at it from upstream, all you see is this 0:41:06.320 --> 0:41:10.320 kind of like infinity pool edge. And when you're tubing, 0:41:10.840 --> 0:41:14.319 it's a tailbone ruiner. Yeah exactly. Yeah, you're gonna get 0:41:14.360 --> 0:41:16.920 hung up on it or whatever, depending on the current. Um. 0:41:17.560 --> 0:41:20.120 But like behind them there can be a like a 0:41:20.360 --> 0:41:23.439 waterfall pretty much. Um. So they're almost impossible to see 0:41:23.520 --> 0:41:26.239 from upstream, and and uh, you gotta watch out for 0:41:26.360 --> 0:41:28.480 him because they'll just come up and you're like, oh, ship, 0:41:28.560 --> 0:41:32.680 we gotta do something. Um. Then there's recyclers where the 0:41:32.719 --> 0:41:37.640 water and that's what that's what we called him sleepers. Sleepers. Yeah, 0:41:37.920 --> 0:41:41.239 hold on, you call the pillow sleeper Okay, yeah, are 0:41:41.280 --> 0:41:44.240 you still talking the river and bed pillow and sleeper 0:41:44.400 --> 0:41:46.640 kind of yeah, yeah, what the hell is with them? 0:41:47.000 --> 0:41:51.359 It's sort of like very peaceful, oculous. You know, it's 0:41:51.400 --> 0:41:55.440 called a blanket. It's recycling. It's good for them because 0:41:55.520 --> 0:41:58.359 it does it has that look from above it's hard 0:41:58.520 --> 0:42:02.120 to pick out. You can sleeper like that. Yeah. Gosh, yeah, 0:42:02.160 --> 0:42:06.160 we used to confuse creeper and sleeper okay, not with 0:42:06.280 --> 0:42:09.759 water with alcohol, Oh to feel like, man, I drink 0:42:09.840 --> 0:42:13.200 some real creeper, which is what which meant that you'd 0:42:13.480 --> 0:42:17.120 enjoy it quickly. Yeah, and all of a sudden craft 0:42:17.200 --> 0:42:18.759 up on didn't know one hits you. Yeah, and you 0:42:19.320 --> 0:42:23.400 like Long Island iced teas were creepers, yeah, or you 0:42:23.440 --> 0:42:26.160 could call them sleepers. Looks fine. How bad could it be? 0:42:27.040 --> 0:42:31.040 A beach bucketful? Yeah? Yeah. And one of the other 0:42:31.120 --> 0:42:34.000 features that's really dangerous is a strainer, which is basically 0:42:34.320 --> 0:42:37.279 typically a um like a branch or a tree where 0:42:37.320 --> 0:42:39.719 it's just straining the water and that creates a lot 0:42:39.800 --> 0:42:43.279 of hydraulic pressure on the upstream side that can trap 0:42:43.360 --> 0:42:48.760 stuff um including like people or gear, boets and stuff. 0:42:48.800 --> 0:42:51.279 And oh they're bad too, man. Yeah. I had to 0:42:51.360 --> 0:42:52.640 run in with one of those this year with my 0:42:52.719 --> 0:42:54.480 wife and her friends. We put our canoe in. I 0:42:54.560 --> 0:42:56.480 was like, there's a chance we're all going in the 0:42:56.560 --> 0:43:01.799 river because it's just high. But it's like people don't 0:43:01.880 --> 0:43:04.480 want to when you're coming up on a bad sweeper. 0:43:05.480 --> 0:43:09.440 It's people don't want to accept the pain of leaning 0:43:09.600 --> 0:43:11.800 forward and letting it do whatever it's gonna do to 0:43:11.880 --> 0:43:14.960 your back right, like to jump over it, you mean, 0:43:15.120 --> 0:43:17.560 or no, like there's a big limb out, Yeah, and 0:43:17.680 --> 0:43:19.600 you're gonna go on. You have to accept that, like 0:43:19.719 --> 0:43:21.520 this is not gonna be fun. But I will lean 0:43:21.680 --> 0:43:25.000 over and my back will take all the branch, you know, 0:43:25.200 --> 0:43:27.719 the scraping right, But that's what you have to do. 0:43:27.880 --> 0:43:29.279 And I was like, whatever we do when we hit 0:43:29.360 --> 0:43:30.880 this thing. We're coming up and like we're hitting it, 0:43:30.960 --> 0:43:34.200 it's like, don't lean, don't lean, just take it. Yeah, 0:43:34.400 --> 0:43:37.120 but they lean you're saying, don't lean back or to 0:43:37.200 --> 0:43:41.879 the side into the side, yeah, like just absorb the blow, 0:43:42.000 --> 0:43:43.879 you know, like when you go like a loose one, 0:43:43.920 --> 0:43:47.160 you know. Yeah. Yeah. And if the branches are going 0:43:47.239 --> 0:43:49.120 down into the water, then this is a whole different story. 0:43:49.320 --> 0:43:51.640 You gotta go around it because it can pull stuff 0:43:51.800 --> 0:43:54.200 down or like if you get hung up on it, 0:43:54.360 --> 0:43:56.719 the way that the currents going can make your boat 0:43:56.760 --> 0:44:01.160 want to spin around or you know, flips sideways because 0:44:01.160 --> 0:44:04.359 it's pulling at the at the bottom of the boat. 0:44:04.560 --> 0:44:09.560 One of the most lethal features, uh, probably the the 0:44:09.640 --> 0:44:11.920 ones you get hung up on. The hung up on 0:44:12.239 --> 0:44:15.200 not well like a strainer, like you know, if you 0:44:15.280 --> 0:44:17.600 get if you broadside a rock or something. Then it 0:44:17.719 --> 0:44:19.880 can just trap your boat and fold the boat around it, 0:44:20.040 --> 0:44:22.360 and then you've got you're having to scramble out of it, 0:44:22.520 --> 0:44:24.759 you know, take care of yourself and your gears, all 0:44:24.760 --> 0:44:28.640 of garage sailing, and your boat might be pretty significantly 0:44:28.719 --> 0:44:32.560 damaged or or just stuck and require some uh some 0:44:32.880 --> 0:44:35.600 rescue techniques or recovery techniques to get it pulled off 0:44:35.640 --> 0:44:38.279 of that rock. Did you guys carry equipment for jack 0:44:38.320 --> 0:44:40.920 and your boats off rocks. Yeah, we carried a set 0:44:41.000 --> 0:44:42.880 of ropes and carabineers to set up. I think it 0:44:42.920 --> 0:44:44.879 was a three to one, like a standard Z drag 0:44:45.000 --> 0:44:47.839 is what we call it, um so, but yeah, because 0:44:47.840 --> 0:44:50.840 they could just to avoid that when you when you 0:44:50.880 --> 0:44:52.799 maage all the hydraulics, like if you imagine a boat 0:44:52.840 --> 0:44:56.600 against the rock and then add some you know, some 0:44:57.200 --> 0:45:01.120 massive water that's moving whatever in nine miles our pressing 0:45:01.160 --> 0:45:03.839 against that thing, right, it's an enormous amount of force, 0:45:03.920 --> 0:45:06.160 it's huge holding it in place. Yeah. Yeah, and the 0:45:06.239 --> 0:45:09.680 canoes wrapped around the rock like a tin can. So 0:45:10.160 --> 0:45:12.200 even if you get that Z drag set up, you 0:45:12.200 --> 0:45:14.279 know you're doing the three to one. You're hauling on 0:45:14.440 --> 0:45:16.880 it and the rope stretching because of the water, and 0:45:17.480 --> 0:45:19.359 then you've got people in the middle doing sheer force 0:45:19.440 --> 0:45:21.120 moving the ropebole back and forth. They can be a 0:45:21.280 --> 0:45:25.680 real struggle to get a boat recover. Theyving in canoes. 0:45:26.120 --> 0:45:30.160 These were um Royal Royal X. Yeah, rest in peace, 0:45:30.280 --> 0:45:33.800 Royal X. It is done now done. Got cars in 0:45:33.840 --> 0:45:37.040 Jennick or something. Uh. It was kind of like Coda chrome. 0:45:37.080 --> 0:45:38.800 There was one spot that made it I think is 0:45:38.960 --> 0:45:42.279 what I understand. Really Royal X canoes are no more. Yeah, 0:45:42.440 --> 0:45:46.520 there's there's a couple of different materials. So they've made 0:45:46.600 --> 0:45:51.240 some super tough um like composite, kind of like kevlar. 0:45:52.360 --> 0:45:56.080 I think I have Old townc what's that would probably 0:45:56.239 --> 0:45:59.759 Royal X. This is like a plastic compound. Yeah, yeah, 0:45:59.800 --> 0:46:01.879 it's plastic. It's kind of got this weird foam stuff 0:46:01.920 --> 0:46:03.719 in the middle. But once you get it pulled off 0:46:03.760 --> 0:46:05.160 of a rock, you set it out in the sun 0:46:05.320 --> 0:46:07.000 or next to a fire and the heat just let 0:46:07.040 --> 0:46:09.520 it to pop back to shaping. Really keep get back 0:46:09.560 --> 0:46:11.439 on the water. You might have to do a little 0:46:11.480 --> 0:46:14.040 patching or you know, hammer the gunles and did you 0:46:14.080 --> 0:46:16.480 guys carry gear with you to fix canoes. Yeah, I 0:46:16.520 --> 0:46:18.200 don't remember what the kit was like, but we had 0:46:18.320 --> 0:46:25.279 repair kits for everything, stoves, canoe. Uh. People, I was 0:46:25.320 --> 0:46:27.319 surprised to see that you guys would run just those 0:46:27.360 --> 0:46:31.560 regular woven like standard woven seats. You didn't do like 0:46:31.680 --> 0:46:33.960 crazy creek set up with back support and stuff. You 0:46:34.000 --> 0:46:35.719 just gotta learn to live with it. Yeah, I mean 0:46:35.800 --> 0:46:38.680 you're posture right and go. Yeah, I I really don't 0:46:38.760 --> 0:46:41.239 like a backrest in a canoe. So is that like, 0:46:41.360 --> 0:46:44.080 is that not pro pros don't like a backrest. I 0:46:44.080 --> 0:46:46.520 would probably say that. I mean, you know, it's if 0:46:46.560 --> 0:46:48.240 you're if you're we need to do with the backrest, 0:46:48.280 --> 0:46:53.239 you're like, uh, I'm like, I'd never do that, you know, 0:46:53.560 --> 0:46:55.279 with the exception of like if you're hanging out for 0:46:55.320 --> 0:46:57.440 a long time, if you're if you're just sitting and fishing, 0:46:57.600 --> 0:46:59.839 I mean by all means, but if you're paddling big 0:47:00.000 --> 0:47:02.959 water stuff where it's um the boats getting tossed around 0:47:03.000 --> 0:47:06.040 and stuff, Uh, that backrest is making you kind of 0:47:06.120 --> 0:47:08.320 an extension of the boat in a bad way. Like 0:47:08.440 --> 0:47:11.239 you need to have enough fluid in your person. Yeah, 0:47:11.560 --> 0:47:12.960 you know, if you're just sit there with the stiff 0:47:13.040 --> 0:47:16.680 back and and stuff ends up tossing you around. Then 0:47:17.320 --> 0:47:19.560 gravity is pushing you over. You guys paddled most that 0:47:19.680 --> 0:47:25.400 stuff not sitting in those seats, but that, yeah, lowers 0:47:25.440 --> 0:47:28.000 your center of gravity. You can move the canoe with 0:47:28.080 --> 0:47:31.440 your knees, like you know, if the bus, but if 0:47:31.480 --> 0:47:33.640 the boat's getting pushed to the left, you can push 0:47:33.719 --> 0:47:36.759 to the right and get it straightened back out. And 0:47:36.880 --> 0:47:40.960 you and you know a wide array of strokes that 0:47:41.480 --> 0:47:44.240 maybe I know them and don't know that they have names, 0:47:45.400 --> 0:47:48.399 but what are some of the you break down quite 0:47:48.400 --> 0:47:50.600 a few strokes. Yeah, So, I mean there's a lot 0:47:50.640 --> 0:47:52.920 of different ways to move a canoe, but the basic 0:47:53.000 --> 0:47:55.480 ones are forward paddle, backroud paddle, which are exactly what 0:47:55.600 --> 0:47:58.680 you think. Um. And then when you're in the stern, 0:47:58.719 --> 0:48:01.359 when you're in the back and you're you're doing the steering, Um, 0:48:01.680 --> 0:48:05.440 there's the J stroke and C stroke. UM. And the 0:48:05.560 --> 0:48:10.600 J stroke basically corrects, uh, the turn that naturally happens 0:48:10.680 --> 0:48:12.560 when you're paddling the boat from the back. You're on 0:48:12.600 --> 0:48:14.799 the right and you're just paddling, it's gonna generally push 0:48:14.840 --> 0:48:17.279 you to the left. And the J sid Yeah, do 0:48:17.320 --> 0:48:19.040 you when you're doing J stroke. Do you throw the 0:48:19.120 --> 0:48:21.759 J on every stroke or the only correct like every other? 0:48:22.719 --> 0:48:25.960 I typically correct every other, but it's totally a nuanced 0:48:26.000 --> 0:48:28.800 thing depending on the weather and and uh, you know, 0:48:28.840 --> 0:48:31.200 if there's any current or whatever. So you get into 0:48:31.200 --> 0:48:32.920 the mode where you're not even thinking about it. You're 0:48:32.960 --> 0:48:34.839 just like throwing a J in every once in a while. Yeah, 0:48:34.880 --> 0:48:37.320 it seems like there's like a there's like I like it, 0:48:37.360 --> 0:48:39.800 but there's like an inefficiency in it. Like you're definitely 0:48:39.840 --> 0:48:43.879 like throwing drag. You're throwing the least amount of drag 0:48:43.960 --> 0:48:46.920 that you can by with staying on the same side. 0:48:47.440 --> 0:48:49.239 You know, A J stroke is is just like a 0:48:49.320 --> 0:48:52.200 little a little hit at the end of the at 0:48:52.239 --> 0:48:54.200 the end of the forward stroke. It's not like a 0:48:54.280 --> 0:48:57.279 rudder where you're like boom and both just slowing down. Yeah, 0:48:57.320 --> 0:48:59.239 people who are familiar with this, imagine that you're you're 0:48:59.239 --> 0:49:01.440 paddling along you're paidly just how you imagine you're paddling. 0:49:01.480 --> 0:49:05.760 Where you're paddle is hitting the water perpendicular to in line, 0:49:05.840 --> 0:49:08.000 the blade is hitting the water perpendicular to the canoe, 0:49:08.480 --> 0:49:10.799 and it's just following the canoe along. At the end, 0:49:11.560 --> 0:49:13.640 you put a little hook on it where you shoot 0:49:14.440 --> 0:49:16.719 the paddle, you like, turn the paddle and shoot it 0:49:16.760 --> 0:49:20.160 slightly outward because the stroke is nudging it left, and 0:49:20.239 --> 0:49:22.839 that little hook on the end just pops the bow back. 0:49:23.360 --> 0:49:27.160 Can you explain why? Because it's it's I mean, I 0:49:27.520 --> 0:49:30.120 understand now why right, But I think it's a lot 0:49:30.160 --> 0:49:32.240 of people. It's like when I was learning into paddle 0:49:32.280 --> 0:49:34.759 a canoe, I'd be like, there's a guy, a person 0:49:34.840 --> 0:49:38.080 in front paddling the same kind of paddle that I'm paddling, 0:49:38.400 --> 0:49:41.040 and I'm in the back paddling. Why and they're on 0:49:41.120 --> 0:49:44.600 the opposite side. Why still is my stroke more powerful 0:49:44.640 --> 0:49:47.080 and pushing the canoe to the left if you're paddling 0:49:47.120 --> 0:49:50.840 on the right. Uh, that's a good physics question. Then 0:49:50.840 --> 0:49:53.280 I don't know if I can answer the exact physics 0:49:53.360 --> 0:49:59.880 of it. Um. But yeah, typically the person in the 0:50:00.040 --> 0:50:02.080 front is is the motor. Do you think of them 0:50:02.080 --> 0:50:04.600 as the motor they're pulling the boat along? Yeah. And 0:50:04.680 --> 0:50:09.160 then in the back, Um, for one, the stern seat 0:50:09.280 --> 0:50:11.040 is usually a lot closer to the end of the boat. 0:50:11.800 --> 0:50:15.880 So in terms of leverage, you know, um, if you 0:50:16.000 --> 0:50:17.320 were to pull the front of the boat or the 0:50:17.400 --> 0:50:19.480 back of the boat left or right, it's gonna move 0:50:19.520 --> 0:50:21.520 it significantly, Whereas if you're sitting in the middle and 0:50:21.560 --> 0:50:23.440 you're trying to turn it, it takes a lot more 0:50:23.520 --> 0:50:26.880 force to to turn that um. So you know, if 0:50:26.920 --> 0:50:29.360 the boat is a lever, you're further away from the 0:50:29.400 --> 0:50:33.800 fulcrum was right on the bow and he was stroking, 0:50:33.840 --> 0:50:37.000 it might turn the boat a lot more, I suppose. Yeah, 0:50:37.239 --> 0:50:38.520 So like if you're in the bow and you need 0:50:38.560 --> 0:50:40.319 to move the boat a lot, you're gonna you're gonna 0:50:40.400 --> 0:50:44.759 reach forward, forward and out to try to um make 0:50:44.840 --> 0:50:46.960 that happen. So that's something you do in white water. 0:50:47.000 --> 0:50:48.680 You're like, oh, ship, here comes a rock and you 0:50:48.760 --> 0:50:51.319 know you're in the bow and you just you're it's 0:50:51.360 --> 0:50:53.560 super physical. You know, you're on your knees, which also 0:50:53.600 --> 0:50:56.080 allows you to move your paddle position a lot more 0:50:56.160 --> 0:50:59.600 than if you're locked on your seat. So yeah, you're 0:50:59.640 --> 0:51:02.239 just further from the fulkrum in the stern. And then 0:51:02.280 --> 0:51:04.160 the other main stroke is the C stroke, and that's 0:51:04.200 --> 0:51:07.799 kind of the opposite um. You're you're pulling the water 0:51:07.880 --> 0:51:09.720 back and then you can do a little hook towards 0:51:09.800 --> 0:51:11.279 the canoe at the end and that just kind of 0:51:11.360 --> 0:51:16.120 makes that that automatic movement of the boat in the 0:51:16.200 --> 0:51:19.640 opposite direction that much more profound. It's interesting that for 0:51:19.719 --> 0:51:24.799 a right hand or both of those letters are backwards. Yeah, 0:51:24.840 --> 0:51:33.120 that's good point. Speaking of pros. Is the person you're 0:51:33.120 --> 0:51:37.040 speaking of before, Bill Mason? Yes, Bill Mason, and the 0:51:37.120 --> 0:51:40.719 canoe is Bible is path of the paddle? Yes, ye, 0:51:41.000 --> 0:51:44.240 thank you. That's the voice of rain Fart Steam podcast 0:51:44.280 --> 0:51:54.680 producer Cringe. You haven't said anything yet today The Right 0:51:54.760 --> 0:51:59.319 Way Karin starred. Um had a starring role in our 0:51:59.520 --> 0:52:04.480 Christmas Ashal. That was so fun. How many miles have 0:52:04.520 --> 0:52:06.799 you paddled your whole life? I've never done the math 0:52:07.239 --> 0:52:11.480 thousands probably, Yeah, most of that in the boundary waters 0:52:11.680 --> 0:52:14.080 in quite a co and your books called the twenty 0:52:14.200 --> 0:52:16.520 ninth Day? Yeah, what happens on the twenty ninth day? 0:52:17.520 --> 0:52:20.719 We had breakfast? You know, it's a day off. You're 0:52:20.719 --> 0:52:23.600 taking a day off. You're you're like, I don't know 0:52:23.640 --> 0:52:25.759 what you're like, four fifths done or three fifths done 0:52:26.840 --> 0:52:29.960 day of a forty two day. Yeah. Yeah, we're most 0:52:30.000 --> 0:52:32.640 of the way horrible at math. I can't I can't 0:52:32.840 --> 0:52:35.239 simple math. We're most of the way. Um, you know, 0:52:35.320 --> 0:52:38.160 it's probably our third layover day of the trip. We 0:52:38.200 --> 0:52:40.000 took our first lay over day twenty days and so 0:52:40.040 --> 0:52:42.400 we're paddling for three weeks before. So you're just kind 0:52:42.400 --> 0:52:44.960 of watching your schedule and seeing how you're making along. Yeah, 0:52:45.040 --> 0:52:48.040 making just take a break, yeah, yeah, just you know 0:52:48.400 --> 0:52:52.759 how we feeling. Are we just totally bushed? Um? Are 0:52:52.840 --> 0:52:56.200 we on track? Do we need to make up time? So? Uh, 0:52:56.400 --> 0:52:58.239 you guys, take a little break, take a little break, 0:52:58.360 --> 0:53:01.600 have some breakfast. Yeah. Lay over day I like to say, 0:53:01.719 --> 0:53:03.759 is is just one meal after the other. You know, 0:53:03.960 --> 0:53:07.640 you're just like, oh, let's have breakfast because right, I 0:53:07.680 --> 0:53:10.000 mean yeah, it's kind of like hiker stomach where you're 0:53:10.000 --> 0:53:12.160 just like burning so many calories. You're like I could 0:53:12.200 --> 0:53:15.759 eat NonStop and just still be hungry. So are you 0:53:15.800 --> 0:53:19.439 getting like you're losing weight? But like you're losing weight, 0:53:19.520 --> 0:53:22.600 but but your muscles gotta be doing weird things. But 0:53:22.760 --> 0:53:25.600 your legs are shrinking? Yeah? Yeah, I mean we're not 0:53:25.719 --> 0:53:27.840 moving too much with our legs. So and and you 0:53:27.960 --> 0:53:30.920 gotta move a long distance in the flats to get anywhere. 0:53:31.160 --> 0:53:35.879 Uh and so it's a yeah, you're just getting lean. Um, 0:53:36.640 --> 0:53:39.480 so you know your your upper body with a paddling 0:53:39.520 --> 0:53:43.600 trip just gets really efficient and you know your back 0:53:43.719 --> 0:53:47.040 muscles are are doing awesome because you're just doing thousands 0:53:47.080 --> 0:53:49.759 of paddle strokes every day. So you know those days 0:53:49.840 --> 0:53:54.360 arrests are are super important, um in kind of recharging. 0:53:54.960 --> 0:53:57.520 But uh yeah, So this one, we were camped on 0:53:57.719 --> 0:54:02.360 Princess Mary Lake, which is this enormous lake. Um, I 0:54:02.400 --> 0:54:04.560 can't remember how far across it was, you know, fifteen 0:54:04.840 --> 0:54:07.640 twenty miles across from shore to shore. And we're camped 0:54:07.680 --> 0:54:11.600 on this island in the middle of it. And um, 0:54:11.880 --> 0:54:14.759 we're a couple of hundred yards up from shore. Um, 0:54:15.800 --> 0:54:19.480 camped on a flat that's below this super steep ridge 0:54:19.800 --> 0:54:25.120 behind our campsite. And uh, we have breakfast, we have lunch, 0:54:25.920 --> 0:54:29.320 and after lunch, the rest of the guys decided to 0:54:29.320 --> 0:54:31.439 go up to the top of this ridge behind our site. 0:54:31.640 --> 0:54:33.960 Um it's the highest point around on the island. And 0:54:35.480 --> 0:54:37.799 that's just like a rocky ridge, right yeah, but it's 0:54:37.800 --> 0:54:41.440 got like crowberry or what's up there. Uh, it's just 0:54:42.200 --> 0:54:46.000 kind of empty. There's like because like the per the creature, 0:54:46.040 --> 0:54:48.160 the wines that being up there is up there for 0:54:48.200 --> 0:54:51.680 a reason. Is it grazing at berries. I didn't see 0:54:51.680 --> 0:54:54.719 any berries. I don't know exactly what it was doing 0:54:54.800 --> 0:54:56.640 up there, if it was just kind of roaming looking 0:54:56.680 --> 0:55:02.480 for berries, you know. But yeah, it's it's um even 0:55:02.560 --> 0:55:05.200 more stark landscape than the camp site that we had, 0:55:05.280 --> 0:55:06.920 which he says, like a lot of like bear Rock 0:55:07.040 --> 0:55:09.440 up there. Yeah, bear Rock. It's kind of like you know, 0:55:09.560 --> 0:55:12.160 the summit and you're but it's a big gass island 0:55:12.440 --> 0:55:14.520 right in a fresh water lake. How big is the island? 0:55:15.440 --> 0:55:17.960 I think it's five miles And what is the bear 0:55:18.080 --> 0:55:21.319 doing out there? I don't know. That's a that's one 0:55:21.360 --> 0:55:24.279 of the mysteries. And there's like muskox the island. Yeah, 0:55:25.200 --> 0:55:29.160 in a freshwater lake. It's so weird. Yeah, well I imagine, uh, 0:55:29.440 --> 0:55:31.919 you know, when it's iced over a lot of the years, 0:55:31.960 --> 0:55:33.759 so it's easy for things to get back and forth. 0:55:33.800 --> 0:55:36.759 But I imagine they are getting the shore too. He 0:55:37.120 --> 0:55:39.280 doesn't give a ship he'll slim, but the most muscox 0:55:39.280 --> 0:55:41.600 will slim too. But right, yeah, I wasn't think about yeah, 0:55:41.680 --> 0:55:43.960 just they crossing on the ice, but thinking about it. Yeah, 0:55:44.239 --> 0:55:46.440 So when these are little like bears, I get being 0:55:46.440 --> 0:55:49.000 afraid of you guys are a little afraid of Muskox. Yeah, 0:55:49.120 --> 0:55:51.399 like real afraid of muskok there. You gotta respect them. 0:55:51.760 --> 0:55:55.080 I mean, there's they are ornery and powerful animals. They 0:55:55.120 --> 0:55:58.120 can fight off a grizzly attack. They've got this helmet 0:55:58.160 --> 0:56:02.160 of horns and uh it's just like this bone plate 0:56:02.280 --> 0:56:03.800 at the top of their head and then the horns 0:56:03.880 --> 0:56:08.640 curl around and these kind of Viking style uh helmets, 0:56:09.000 --> 0:56:13.680 and um, they'll mess you up and they'll charge it random. 0:56:13.719 --> 0:56:15.160 What does it take to set them off? I was 0:56:15.200 --> 0:56:18.160 just gonna ask you. I mean, if you're getting too 0:56:18.200 --> 0:56:20.239 close for comfort pretty much, you know, if you get 0:56:20.280 --> 0:56:22.160 if you get too close to them, they're like, hey, 0:56:22.239 --> 0:56:24.760 get out of my business. Sure, but then you'd probably 0:56:24.800 --> 0:56:28.040 want to I mean you just keep your distance. But yeah, 0:56:28.040 --> 0:56:30.440 but then they show up in your camp. Yeah, sometimes 0:56:30.920 --> 0:56:33.480 it's not up to you or they just kind of 0:56:33.560 --> 0:56:35.520 like come out of come out of nowhere, which is 0:56:35.560 --> 0:56:41.279 what happened for us, and hollering and pan clanging. They're 0:56:41.280 --> 0:56:43.120 just gonna come a graze and your camp I guess. 0:56:43.239 --> 0:56:45.440 I mean that was the only time that that they 0:56:45.480 --> 0:56:48.920 were like just didn't care about us. They just kept coming. 0:56:49.480 --> 0:56:52.359 Was later later that day on that lay over day. Um. 0:56:52.880 --> 0:56:55.080 But otherwise they like they would take note of us 0:56:55.680 --> 0:56:58.200 and like stare us down and say, hey, go about 0:56:58.280 --> 0:57:00.360 your business, go the other way, or they look at 0:57:00.440 --> 0:57:03.320 us and turn away on their own. But um, I 0:57:03.360 --> 0:57:05.759 don't think there's a lot of thinking that's going on necessarily. 0:57:07.360 --> 0:57:11.280 They're just kind of really slow plotting and and grazing, 0:57:11.400 --> 0:57:14.759 and you know, they're just straight out of the ice age. 0:57:14.760 --> 0:57:17.760 I don't think they've changed very buffalo like. Yeah, if 0:57:17.800 --> 0:57:19.280 you think about it, and I think you should probably 0:57:19.320 --> 0:57:22.480 treat them like you treat buffalo. Yeah, yeah, exactly. You know, 0:57:22.520 --> 0:57:24.600 you shouldn't go up and feed him when you're in 0:57:24.640 --> 0:57:27.320 the parks because kids on top of them plenty of 0:57:27.480 --> 0:57:30.760 videos on what happens when you do that. So so 0:57:30.840 --> 0:57:32.800 you guys have the layover day, You're eating a whole 0:57:32.800 --> 0:57:36.360 shipload of food. Yep, yep. Everybody's like, let's go up 0:57:36.360 --> 0:57:38.720 to the top of the ridge yep. And you say, 0:57:38.960 --> 0:57:41.280 I'm gonna have a nap. Yeah, I'm tired and I'm 0:57:41.280 --> 0:57:43.120 a little tuckered. I'm gonna take a nap. You guys 0:57:43.160 --> 0:57:45.440 do your thing. I'm gonna hang out here. So I 0:57:45.560 --> 0:57:48.040 retreat to the tent and curl up in my sleeping 0:57:48.120 --> 0:57:49.880 bag and they go up to the top of the 0:57:50.000 --> 0:57:52.120 ridge and how far off? So many yards up as 0:57:52.160 --> 0:57:56.040 the ridge it's about a hundred feet of like steep 0:57:56.200 --> 0:58:01.160 climb pretty much elevation game. Yeah, yeah, well roughly like 0:58:01.560 --> 0:58:03.560 how many yards? How many yards? So it's a hundred 0:58:03.560 --> 0:58:06.240 feet is steep, so it's not it doesn't take that long, 0:58:06.320 --> 0:58:08.320 like how long has hate to climb up there? About 0:58:08.360 --> 0:58:10.360 ten minutes because you got to kind of scramble back 0:58:10.400 --> 0:58:15.520 and forth. So yeah, yeah, and I mean it's probably 0:58:15.560 --> 0:58:19.200 like forty five degree slope um and steeper in places, 0:58:19.600 --> 0:58:21.760 but yeah, you gotta like trick your way up. Yeah, 0:58:21.880 --> 0:58:24.680 and it's kind of chausy, you know, there's like scree 0:58:24.800 --> 0:58:29.000 and some grass m So you know, I've heard that term, 0:58:29.040 --> 0:58:30.960 but I don't use that term. Do you know what 0:58:31.080 --> 0:58:35.240 it means? You know that it means broken up unsafe rock. Yeah, 0:58:35.280 --> 0:58:39.200 it's like crumbling the term right, yeah, like screw would 0:58:39.200 --> 0:58:42.280 be a bigger you don't want to climb. Yeah, you 0:58:42.320 --> 0:58:43.880 know what I think you know, who introduced me to 0:58:44.000 --> 0:58:47.800 that word is dirt myth that could that Yeah, big 0:58:47.840 --> 0:58:50.080 climber buddy of ours, so nice. Yeah, but he uses 0:58:50.840 --> 0:58:53.160 like just you know, like just like that, he'll talk about, 0:58:53.280 --> 0:58:55.120 we'll talk about picking our way up through something. He 0:58:55.160 --> 0:58:57.560 would say, he'll say that word, I belire, what's that? 0:58:57.640 --> 0:59:02.360 Because just as all it's not good, there's no integrity. Yeah, rotten. 0:59:02.840 --> 0:59:07.400 Let me start calling certain people chausey there you go? Um, okay, 0:59:07.760 --> 0:59:11.000 so you climb on up there. You know they all 0:59:11.040 --> 0:59:14.760 climb on up there. Yep, you go, sleeping, yep, snoozing? 0:59:15.320 --> 0:59:18.800 You sleep how long? I didn't know how long? And 0:59:19.000 --> 0:59:20.800 recently I was talking to Mike, one of the other 0:59:20.920 --> 0:59:23.320 guys on the trip. Your friends, all these dude, still 0:59:23.920 --> 0:59:26.000 I don't get to talk with all of them, just 0:59:26.040 --> 0:59:28.440 because you know, life takes you different places. But yeah, 0:59:28.480 --> 0:59:30.840 I keep in touch with with most of them. Um, 0:59:31.200 --> 0:59:34.480 so yeah, good good guys. You gotta screw your trip. 0:59:37.000 --> 0:59:41.440 I didn't try to. Yeah, it changed, it changed significantly 0:59:41.480 --> 0:59:44.320 at that point. Um. But yeah, they all went up there, 0:59:44.600 --> 0:59:49.080 and uh and Mike said, yeah, three hours, they're up 0:59:49.120 --> 0:59:50.880 there three hours. So I was napping for three hours. 0:59:51.320 --> 0:59:54.200 What are they doing? Taking pictures, taking pictures, hanging out 0:59:54.280 --> 0:59:57.120 reading books? And he didn't notice it. Grizzly, No, I mean, 0:59:57.200 --> 0:59:59.080 that's what's crazy. That's That's one of the things that's 0:59:59.120 --> 1:00:01.120 totally crazy. When I was reading the book, I'm like, oh, 1:00:01.120 --> 1:00:03.640 I'm gonna get Five guys are up there mosing around 1:00:03.720 --> 1:00:07.600 and no one takes note of on an island, Right, 1:00:07.920 --> 1:00:10.960 that's one of the that's not it's five miles long though. Yeah, 1:00:11.080 --> 1:00:14.680 but that's one of the things that's super just weird, right, 1:00:14.960 --> 1:00:17.400 I mean, five guys, they're all kind of you know, 1:00:17.440 --> 1:00:19.720 they're not all focused on one thing. It's not like 1:00:19.760 --> 1:00:21.800 they're up there filet and fish and paying no attention 1:00:21.840 --> 1:00:26.480 to what's around him. That's when the fems join. Yeah, 1:00:26.520 --> 1:00:28.840 I know. They the farm said, you know, we said 1:00:28.880 --> 1:00:31.800 by to them that morning. They stopped by and um 1:00:33.120 --> 1:00:35.600 and uh went on their way and we said see you. 1:00:35.840 --> 1:00:37.240 We're you're not going to see you for the rest 1:00:37.240 --> 1:00:38.480 of the trip because you're gonna be a full day 1:00:38.480 --> 1:00:42.240 ahead of us. So um. But the guys were up 1:00:42.280 --> 1:00:45.080 on the top of this ridge for three hours. It's 1:00:45.120 --> 1:00:48.720 the highest point around. There's no trees anywhere that you 1:00:48.760 --> 1:00:51.160 can see. You can probably see thirty fifty miles in 1:00:51.280 --> 1:00:54.520 every direction. It's like a dome of rock. Yeah. Yeah, 1:00:54.840 --> 1:00:57.480 can you see down to the water's edge, No, trees 1:00:57.560 --> 1:01:02.000 to not not in the direction towards camp, not in 1:01:02.040 --> 1:01:04.160 the direction towards where we were camped, but you can 1:01:04.200 --> 1:01:07.360 see like that, you can see towards away from us. 1:01:08.520 --> 1:01:10.560 You could see towards where the bear would have been 1:01:10.640 --> 1:01:15.200 coming from. What I mean, Stuff Stuff vanishes, man, It's 1:01:15.200 --> 1:01:17.920 sounded some little crevice or behind a boulder or whatever. 1:01:18.000 --> 1:01:19.880 There was a lot of debris up there. In terms 1:01:19.920 --> 1:01:21.120 of I don't want to make too much at that 1:01:21.160 --> 1:01:23.400 point of it, but just interesting because you wake up 1:01:23.440 --> 1:01:25.840 and grab your camp just to make a point of it. 1:01:25.960 --> 1:01:28.080 It's like we've walked him around the mountains for ten 1:01:28.160 --> 1:01:30.200 days at a time looking for him, and that I 1:01:30.280 --> 1:01:33.040 can't find them, so right, So I mean you know that, 1:01:33.200 --> 1:01:35.400 but you know that kind of underlines the point of 1:01:35.520 --> 1:01:38.440 like why didn't we expect to see one up there? 1:01:38.560 --> 1:01:42.560 Because people were there a few minutes before I showed 1:01:42.640 --> 1:01:44.200 up there. Because you wake up from your nap and 1:01:44.240 --> 1:01:46.440 you grab a little pelican case. The pelican case plays 1:01:46.480 --> 1:01:49.160 into this. You have a pelican case, your camera gear yea, 1:01:49.560 --> 1:01:52.280 and go up and catch them on the way down. Yeah. 1:01:52.680 --> 1:01:54.600 So I wake up and I'm like, oh man, I 1:01:54.640 --> 1:01:57.200 gotta get up to this ridge. I overslept because apparently 1:01:57.360 --> 1:01:58.960 you gotta you know, I had I had someone to 1:01:59.000 --> 1:02:02.160 meet and I didn't know it. It. Got up, grabbed 1:02:02.240 --> 1:02:05.800 my pelican case which had my camera in its sense 1:02:05.880 --> 1:02:08.160 of like having like slept too long and now your 1:02:08.160 --> 1:02:10.920 schedules messed up. Yeah, the sense of urgency like I 1:02:11.360 --> 1:02:13.640 need to get up there. And Mike was saying that 1:02:13.760 --> 1:02:16.680 he kind of had the same thing about coming down, right, 1:02:17.200 --> 1:02:21.280 we should leave, which is weird. Um, I don't know 1:02:21.400 --> 1:02:25.200 sixth cents or something, but yeah, so I get my stuff, 1:02:25.320 --> 1:02:29.280 I um start climbing up the ridge. Dan our guide 1:02:29.400 --> 1:02:31.920 is the he's the last one coming down. I met 1:02:32.000 --> 1:02:34.200 him halfway and talked about what was up there, and 1:02:34.880 --> 1:02:37.240 he's like, yeah, there's in a knook shook and um, 1:02:38.040 --> 1:02:41.160 you know, it's just gorgeous, like explaining to take a look. 1:02:41.360 --> 1:02:44.800 A nook shook is a stack of rocks um left 1:02:44.840 --> 1:02:47.280 by um in this case you know Inuit or native 1:02:47.360 --> 1:02:50.560 people's um. It's used as like a place marker or 1:02:50.800 --> 1:02:54.440 a navigational aid, or to commemorate something. UM. Some of 1:02:54.480 --> 1:02:59.040 them are used like four hunting um, so they would 1:02:59.600 --> 1:03:01.920 set up almost like a funnel, kind of imagined like 1:03:01.960 --> 1:03:04.280 a fish, yeah, drive line or a fish trap in 1:03:04.640 --> 1:03:08.880 in rows um to a narrower points they'd like drive 1:03:08.960 --> 1:03:12.200 caribou herds towards. That is my understanding. I've seen some 1:03:12.280 --> 1:03:13.840 of those, and you guys are countering a lot of 1:03:13.920 --> 1:03:17.240 like old mysterious rock structures all over to your trip, 1:03:17.520 --> 1:03:20.520 which was amazing, um and a constant reminder that we 1:03:20.560 --> 1:03:23.480 weren't the first people there by any means. Um. So, 1:03:23.680 --> 1:03:26.240 this was just a soul m a soul knook shook 1:03:26.280 --> 1:03:28.960 that was up there, so um, we weren't sure exactly 1:03:29.000 --> 1:03:30.400 what it was, but it was, you know, the highest 1:03:30.440 --> 1:03:32.000 point around somebody. It was just kind of marking that 1:03:32.080 --> 1:03:35.880 as a special spot. Um. So I talked with Dan 1:03:35.960 --> 1:03:38.040 and then continued up the ridge, made my way to 1:03:38.120 --> 1:03:41.680 the top where it flattened out to these rolling rocky 1:03:42.040 --> 1:03:46.120 granite domes with the gravel and whatever, and just was 1:03:46.240 --> 1:03:49.760 walking up, um, away from camp, towards that a knook shook, 1:03:50.200 --> 1:03:54.520 and uh, walking up one side of one of those domes, 1:03:54.640 --> 1:03:57.600 and I didn't know it, but a six pound barren 1:03:57.680 --> 1:04:00.040 ground grizzly bear was walking up the other side of 1:04:00.120 --> 1:04:01.920 that dome and we were walking straight towards each other, 1:04:02.680 --> 1:04:05.720 and you first register its presence. How I see this 1:04:05.920 --> 1:04:09.720 flash of brown fur at the edge at the lip 1:04:10.120 --> 1:04:13.720 and it's in my peripheral vision and my head snaps 1:04:13.800 --> 1:04:17.480 up and I'm just like, there's something here, and I 1:04:17.560 --> 1:04:20.560 think it's a musk oxen. Oh ship, this is a 1:04:20.640 --> 1:04:23.360 musk oxen. And this is thirty feet away from me. 1:04:24.000 --> 1:04:27.560 So it's just way too close to be to any 1:04:28.080 --> 1:04:31.360 animal that you've got to be careful of. And as 1:04:31.440 --> 1:04:33.760 soon as it kept walking, because it hadn't noticed me 1:04:33.800 --> 1:04:37.000 yet because I was above its sightline, um, but as 1:04:37.080 --> 1:04:39.920 soon as it came a little further, it noticed me too. 1:04:40.360 --> 1:04:42.600 And that's when I realized that it wasn't a musk oxen, 1:04:42.640 --> 1:04:44.680 but it was a bear. And it was just like 1:04:45.520 --> 1:04:49.760 worst case scenario. Oh shit, why do you why do 1:04:49.840 --> 1:04:52.480 you feel that you know how much the bear weight? Um? 1:04:52.760 --> 1:04:57.000 I made that estimate based on looking at bears uh 1:04:57.320 --> 1:05:00.760 in captivity Since then, Yeah, so I into looking at 1:05:00.800 --> 1:05:04.120 things with known waits. Yeah, so part of my um 1:05:05.600 --> 1:05:10.640 uh self prescribed UM getting over that. This whole situation 1:05:10.800 --> 1:05:14.160 was like to confront that fear and UM for me, 1:05:14.280 --> 1:05:17.320 that was going and you know, seeing grizzly bears in person, UM, 1:05:17.560 --> 1:05:21.000 so that was a challenge. But uh, seeing those bears 1:05:21.040 --> 1:05:23.520 in in Zoos, I was like, Okay, well that looks 1:05:23.520 --> 1:05:26.400 a lot like my bear. So it's totally totally in 1:05:26.520 --> 1:05:28.640 estment based on that. And when it sees you, it 1:05:28.760 --> 1:05:31.680 doesn't immediately be like I'm gonna mall that, dude. No, 1:05:32.000 --> 1:05:33.840 the bearon I really had the same reaction, which was 1:05:34.200 --> 1:05:37.120 what the hell am I looking at? And so we 1:05:37.280 --> 1:05:40.000 both just stopped and like kind of stepped back and 1:05:40.360 --> 1:05:43.800 and appraised the situation for a moment. And during that time, 1:05:45.080 --> 1:05:46.880 I flashed back to that training that we had at 1:05:46.920 --> 1:05:51.040 min O gin I. I told myself not to run, 1:05:51.200 --> 1:05:53.320 because that's the one thing that you really can't do, 1:05:53.520 --> 1:05:59.080 is run. And I pictured the bear mace, which we've 1:06:00.200 --> 1:06:03.120 discussed was in the tent. Unfortunately it wasn't my person, 1:06:03.240 --> 1:06:06.200 which means it's totally useless. But I imagine taking it 1:06:06.240 --> 1:06:09.560 out of its holster, taking off the safety cap, aiming 1:06:09.640 --> 1:06:12.480 it and firing it, And would have would have been 1:06:12.480 --> 1:06:13.840 able to do that if I'd had it with me. 1:06:14.080 --> 1:06:18.240 You feel pretty confident and still staring at you, yep, 1:06:18.680 --> 1:06:21.320 I mean it would filled his eyeballs. Yeah, time was 1:06:21.400 --> 1:06:24.720 moving fast, but uh, you know it was like, you 1:06:24.760 --> 1:06:26.800 think you would have fired it immediately or would you 1:06:26.880 --> 1:06:30.280 have waited for the first charge. That's a good question. 1:06:30.640 --> 1:06:33.720 I would have mm hmmm. I would have waited for 1:06:33.760 --> 1:06:38.360 it to run away before firing it. Run away, hopefully 1:06:39.320 --> 1:06:42.040 run towards you. You mean no run well sorry, yeah, 1:06:42.240 --> 1:06:44.800 let me correct myself. I would have been ready to 1:06:44.920 --> 1:06:48.600 fire and then decided whether to fire based on if 1:06:48.640 --> 1:06:50.720 it ran away or ran towards me. What are you 1:06:50.800 --> 1:06:53.160 supposed to do? Are you supposed to kind of do 1:06:53.320 --> 1:06:58.800 the first aggressive like worn off if there's enough distance? 1:06:58.840 --> 1:07:03.680 Are you because I wouldn't a bear staring at you 1:07:04.320 --> 1:07:11.360 your hands up, look big, don't run hey hey, like 1:07:12.760 --> 1:07:17.920 but not to be trifled with, and you spray oh well, well, 1:07:17.960 --> 1:07:20.160 and then you know window if I felt like if 1:07:20.440 --> 1:07:23.880 I mean, you know, as this guy he didn't have 1:07:23.960 --> 1:07:27.680 his bears, having had bear spray att, I would probably 1:07:27.720 --> 1:07:29.800 hit it right away, right, I mean, what do you 1:07:30.000 --> 1:07:32.320 because you got several seconds, I would blast. I would 1:07:32.360 --> 1:07:33.919 just shoot a blast. I'd like to think I would 1:07:34.680 --> 1:07:37.400 like they got you know, I remember Joe Rogan, we're 1:07:37.400 --> 1:07:40.160 talking one time, and he said, everybody has a plan 1:07:40.240 --> 1:07:43.280 to get punched in the face right. That changes the 1:07:43.320 --> 1:07:46.160 game a bit. So the guys are always on top 1:07:46.160 --> 1:07:49.640 about what I would do. Yeah, yeah, well yead you 1:07:49.720 --> 1:07:51.200 had to wear with all the smack one with a 1:07:51.240 --> 1:07:54.320 track and pull. Yeah, it was charging him. I heard that. 1:07:54.560 --> 1:07:57.479 I didn't hear the details. God, I think I would 1:07:57.480 --> 1:07:59.800 have a heart attack before you have thirty ft check 1:07:59.840 --> 1:08:05.880 and I don't get here's the bear. You guys are 1:08:05.920 --> 1:08:09.360 both like, holy ship, that's scary, and you start doing 1:08:09.400 --> 1:08:13.440 every yelling, not not exactly at first. So our training 1:08:14.000 --> 1:08:18.599 basically is grizzly bears, get small, make yourself non threatening, um, 1:08:18.880 --> 1:08:23.240 black bears, make yourself threatening, like assert your dominance. Is 1:08:23.280 --> 1:08:26.960 the training that we've had UM for our area. So 1:08:27.280 --> 1:08:28.840 it sounds like that differs a little bit from what 1:08:29.200 --> 1:08:34.280 you've been told, not mean what I'm like, we've effectively 1:08:34.920 --> 1:08:38.960 run off, Like we effectively run off a lot of 1:08:39.080 --> 1:08:42.400 bears that were in that kind of like curious coming 1:08:42.439 --> 1:08:48.439 towards you. Sure by, hey bear, Hey bear, arms up. 1:08:48.520 --> 1:08:50.800 If there's multiple people, get hold together, just look like 1:08:51.120 --> 1:08:54.040 you're not coming at it. But I'm here. What you're 1:08:54.120 --> 1:08:59.880 like not a caribou calf? Yeah? Interesting, But you know again, 1:09:00.160 --> 1:09:02.040 i's got planned to get punched in the face. Yeah, 1:09:02.080 --> 1:09:04.640 and every situation is different, you know, every bear is 1:09:04.640 --> 1:09:08.600 going to react a little bit differently to various stimuli. 1:09:08.920 --> 1:09:12.920 So sure, yeah, Like I there's nothing worse than a 1:09:13.080 --> 1:09:18.280 than what I do quarterback bear blowhard. So please do 1:09:18.400 --> 1:09:20.400 not think I'm laying now. No, no, I'm not. And 1:09:20.720 --> 1:09:23.639 what you did is what you did and you're sitting 1:09:23.680 --> 1:09:26.280 here right now. Yeah. So so part of our training, 1:09:26.640 --> 1:09:29.639 like I said, with grizzlies is basically like to convey 1:09:29.760 --> 1:09:32.559 that you're not a threat, and that is backing way slowly, 1:09:32.640 --> 1:09:35.560 avoiding eye contact, talking to the bear kind of to 1:09:35.680 --> 1:09:38.160 your point, making it, making it understand that you're not. 1:09:39.080 --> 1:09:42.760 It's usual. Uh, I think it's going to run into 1:09:43.360 --> 1:09:46.920 and so in my brain, I've got all these different 1:09:47.040 --> 1:09:50.519 steps kind of running through my mind, um on what 1:09:50.720 --> 1:09:54.040 I'm supposed to do, and again just really wanting to run. 1:09:54.400 --> 1:09:56.360 I don't want to be anywhere near it, but I 1:09:56.439 --> 1:10:00.599 can't do that, So I just start back in away slowly, 1:10:01.240 --> 1:10:04.479 arms kind of down at my side. Hey bear, wool bear, 1:10:04.840 --> 1:10:08.560 it's okay, bear, And my voice is shaking, and the 1:10:08.680 --> 1:10:11.320 bear is he's thinking about it. He's thinking about it. 1:10:11.360 --> 1:10:15.200 He's looking at me. It doesn't take very long at all, um, 1:10:15.320 --> 1:10:18.160 and he goes into like a stationary bluff charge. So 1:10:18.200 --> 1:10:21.160 he launches on his front positively and grunts at me. 1:10:21.520 --> 1:10:24.519 He's making a lot of noise, right, yeah, yeah, and 1:10:24.920 --> 1:10:27.000 uh I listened to your episode with Amber. It sounds 1:10:27.000 --> 1:10:29.519 like she had a kind of similar uh way that 1:10:29.600 --> 1:10:33.479 the bear was acting before it decided to charge. Ah, 1:10:34.200 --> 1:10:38.680 And so grunted at me backing up slowly, and it 1:10:38.800 --> 1:10:42.080 basically faded from stationary bluff charges just launching onto its 1:10:42.120 --> 1:10:45.040 front pause to like coming towards me and then stopping 1:10:45.560 --> 1:10:47.840 like six ft and then ten feet, and I just 1:10:47.960 --> 1:10:50.920 keep backing up the bears moving six ft moving ten 1:10:51.040 --> 1:10:56.519 ft yeah, and half yeah bluff charges yeah, and uh, 1:10:58.000 --> 1:11:00.599 you know, I'm I'm reading it and goring out because 1:11:00.600 --> 1:11:02.240 it at first, you know, even with those bluff charges, 1:11:02.320 --> 1:11:04.559 it was still it still felt like it was deciding 1:11:04.600 --> 1:11:09.720 exactly what it was gonna do, right, yeah, exactly. And 1:11:10.080 --> 1:11:13.000 so I keep backing up slowly, you know, just mind 1:11:13.080 --> 1:11:16.000 over matter, telling myself, don't run, don't run, don't run, 1:11:16.760 --> 1:11:21.000 And it fades from those uh stationary and short bluff 1:11:21.080 --> 1:11:23.920 charges to a full speed charge and it comes at me. 1:11:24.080 --> 1:11:27.080 Bears can run, you know, mid thirty mile range, and 1:11:27.680 --> 1:11:33.599 I'd increased our thirty ft distance by five ft and uh, 1:11:34.560 --> 1:11:39.680 keep backing up, keep more than he's getting closer. So 1:11:39.800 --> 1:11:42.280 I mean his charges the brain of closer closer, closer. Yeah, 1:11:42.320 --> 1:11:44.960 I mean this is happening really fast and closer. He 1:11:45.040 --> 1:11:47.280 got you before you realize he was gonna get you. 1:11:48.760 --> 1:11:55.200 Uh probably like within twenty ft about fifteen, Yeah, where 1:11:55.400 --> 1:11:58.840 he's like like, I feel like I can see his 1:11:59.360 --> 1:12:02.679 decision shift to Okay, now I'm gonna Now I'm gonna 1:12:02.720 --> 1:12:05.320 come at this thing. And you know I faded from 1:12:05.360 --> 1:12:08.920 haybar Boebert, you know at this point yelling obscenities and 1:12:09.080 --> 1:12:12.560 help and and very likely like if the landscape, like 1:12:13.040 --> 1:12:17.360 quite likely the first person he's never had any kind 1:12:17.360 --> 1:12:19.880 of close encounter with, right, Yeah, he's trying to figure 1:12:19.880 --> 1:12:22.120 out what he's supposed to do. And like I don't 1:12:22.120 --> 1:12:24.120 know how old this bear was or people have asked, 1:12:24.120 --> 1:12:25.479 you know, it was a male or female, and I 1:12:25.560 --> 1:12:27.160 have no idea. There were no cubs. It was just 1:12:27.360 --> 1:12:30.760 the bear. Um, but yeah, it's just trying to figure 1:12:30.800 --> 1:12:34.000 out what it's supposed to do. And you know, at 1:12:34.040 --> 1:12:36.960 that distance fight or flight is pretty I mean it's 1:12:37.040 --> 1:12:43.559 kind of what color is really close bond? Uh lighter tan, 1:12:43.800 --> 1:12:49.920 like a little bit darker than blonde. Yeah, yeah, not 1:12:50.080 --> 1:12:54.160 like shaggy, but like, um, I don't know how long 1:12:54.200 --> 1:12:56.160 it would be, but kind of middle middle length, I'd 1:12:56.160 --> 1:12:58.920 say blowing in the wind, kind of a hair, a 1:12:59.000 --> 1:13:00.800 little bit like the tips be blown in the wind. 1:13:01.200 --> 1:13:04.120 You have little peaks, peaks, you know, it's not like 1:13:04.240 --> 1:13:06.120 hanging off. It's kind of sticking out, kind of spiky. 1:13:06.479 --> 1:13:08.479 So at some point at fift you see something in 1:13:08.520 --> 1:13:10.800 his head shift. Yeah, and then he's coming at me 1:13:10.880 --> 1:13:15.719 full speed and you pelt him. Well that that didn't 1:13:15.760 --> 1:13:17.680 happen yet. I was just like, oh, ship, this is 1:13:17.680 --> 1:13:21.640 gonna be this is gonna end poorly. And as it 1:13:21.800 --> 1:13:24.200 gets within that range, like I can feel the ground 1:13:24.320 --> 1:13:26.879 shaking under my feet from its pause because that gallops 1:13:26.960 --> 1:13:31.160 just like butom, and it's it's growling at me, and um, 1:13:31.320 --> 1:13:33.400 do the like do the noise? Like how loud it's 1:13:33.439 --> 1:13:36.519 doing the noise? I don't think I can. Okay, I'll 1:13:36.560 --> 1:13:40.320 do a noise. Do you tell me if it's louder Plotter, Well, 1:13:40.360 --> 1:13:42.640 I was louder than that louder that. Ye, did I 1:13:42.680 --> 1:13:50.240 have the right sound? Uh more? Projecting that sounds like 1:13:50.280 --> 1:13:58.000 a dude, it's hard. I remember the noise. You remember it? 1:13:58.439 --> 1:14:03.120 Remember the noise. Oh it was like grunting, guttural roar. 1:14:03.760 --> 1:14:06.640 That was like, yeah, I mean like in pulses. It 1:14:06.760 --> 1:14:11.800 wasn't just like NonStop, you know, it was like kind 1:14:11.840 --> 1:14:15.759 of sounds good. Yeah, that was good. It came to me. Okay, 1:14:16.160 --> 1:14:18.720 so that sounded like a series comedies gallop and the 1:14:18.760 --> 1:14:21.760 grounds are shaken. Yeah. Yeah. And when he's uh and 1:14:21.840 --> 1:14:24.320 You're like, I'm dead now, I'm dead now. And at 1:14:24.360 --> 1:14:28.800 this point my conscious decisions are kind of done and 1:14:28.960 --> 1:14:33.040 my brain is doing everything on its own. And when 1:14:33.080 --> 1:14:34.680 it was five or ten feet for me, I had 1:14:34.720 --> 1:14:37.160 that Pelican case with you know, a Nike on DSLR 1:14:37.280 --> 1:14:39.400 with a couple of lenses and whatever else I needed 1:14:39.439 --> 1:14:41.800 to run the run the camera for the whole trip. 1:14:41.880 --> 1:14:45.479 So it's like fifteen pounds and it's the only time 1:14:45.520 --> 1:14:51.880 I'll throw my camera camera. I typically don't throw it, 1:14:52.160 --> 1:14:54.639 uh And I was a really bad throw at the time, 1:14:54.720 --> 1:14:56.960 so I you know, I couldn't hit the broadside of 1:14:56.960 --> 1:15:01.240 a barn, but I did throw my camera practice, not 1:15:01.360 --> 1:15:05.439 with the same projectile. I'm a lot better thrown now though. 1:15:05.920 --> 1:15:09.519 Um but I wound back and threw it underhand, like 1:15:09.640 --> 1:15:13.640 I said, just you know, on instinct, and uh, it 1:15:13.760 --> 1:15:17.000 flies towards this galloping bear and it hit it square 1:15:17.040 --> 1:15:19.920 in the nose and with enough force to turn its 1:15:19.960 --> 1:15:21.840 head all the way to the side. So it pushes 1:15:21.920 --> 1:15:23.760 this bear's head to the side. It grunts like, oh, 1:15:24.040 --> 1:15:28.320 like I just punched it. Yeah, and the pelican case 1:15:28.400 --> 1:15:32.040 goes flying over its shoulder, tumbling off behind it. The 1:15:32.080 --> 1:15:35.360 bear's momentum keeps going at the same pace. Um, but 1:15:35.680 --> 1:15:40.000 it can't. I'm sure he didn't like that. But he 1:15:40.040 --> 1:15:42.200 couldn't see me for a couple of steps and like 1:15:42.320 --> 1:15:45.559 five to ten ft. I mean that's turned his head. 1:15:46.240 --> 1:15:48.800 I mean he didn't want to turn his head. The 1:15:48.880 --> 1:15:52.240 video that dude punching that kangaroo, Oh my god, it's 1:15:52.240 --> 1:15:54.240 my favorite, my kid's favorite video. Yeah, he turns his 1:15:54.280 --> 1:15:57.920 head on a kangaroo like slow moll like a person 1:15:57.960 --> 1:16:01.160 getting punched. Oh yeah, had a plan until it got 1:16:01.240 --> 1:16:04.160 punched in the face. Yeah, his plan was the bluff 1:16:04.240 --> 1:16:07.800 charge of Yeah, I didn't feel like that, which I've 1:16:07.800 --> 1:16:10.840 heard is how it feels. But yeah, I mean, I 1:16:10.920 --> 1:16:15.600 don't know if he could have stopped at that distance. No, 1:16:15.840 --> 1:16:18.560 his run just kept coming, his gallop kept going. But 1:16:18.600 --> 1:16:20.519 he couldn't see where I was, and he couldn't like 1:16:20.720 --> 1:16:23.639 you know, roundhouse me at that point because he didn't 1:16:23.640 --> 1:16:26.240 know what to hit. But I jumped out of the 1:16:26.280 --> 1:16:29.439 way again on instinct and dodged at like bullfighting style 1:16:29.479 --> 1:16:32.680 as this bears running past me and he just misses you. 1:16:32.840 --> 1:16:35.120 He just misses me. Yeah, I mean I just jumped 1:16:35.120 --> 1:16:36.360 out of the way right at the last second, like 1:16:36.439 --> 1:16:38.439 his momentum carried him past me. And then you know, 1:16:38.520 --> 1:16:42.200 his head swung around by this point, and he's flailing 1:16:42.240 --> 1:16:44.040 trying to get at me, and as soon as he 1:16:44.240 --> 1:16:48.519 passes me, he stops and change changes direction so fast, 1:16:49.200 --> 1:16:51.840 like faster than I would have ever imagined that an 1:16:51.840 --> 1:16:56.559 animal like that could move. They're incredibly powerful. Uh turns 1:16:56.600 --> 1:16:59.360 around and comes at me again, and I do the 1:16:59.439 --> 1:17:05.360 same move. Rather than throwing the camera case, it's mouths open. Uh. Yeah, 1:17:05.400 --> 1:17:08.240 I mean it is trying to grab your well, it 1:17:08.400 --> 1:17:10.640 was like half open like at the ready, right, and 1:17:10.680 --> 1:17:12.360 then as it would come at me, it would use 1:17:12.400 --> 1:17:14.240 its paws and use its jaws to try to get me. 1:17:14.439 --> 1:17:16.080 So it came at me again and I jumped out 1:17:16.120 --> 1:17:19.880 of the way and it missed me again. Clean miss 1:17:20.240 --> 1:17:22.400 I don't know if that one was clean. That's uh 1:17:23.120 --> 1:17:26.200 uh no teeth. Some claus start to hit me at that, 1:17:26.479 --> 1:17:28.640 you know, because these passes. But that's what let's what 1:17:28.760 --> 1:17:30.600 like blew me away and reading and the description is 1:17:30.680 --> 1:17:35.040 like it's like a very lengthy, like detailed description of Yeah, 1:17:35.160 --> 1:17:36.840 the fact that you could that you dodged it a 1:17:36.920 --> 1:17:38.800 couple of times it was crazy and it had to 1:17:38.840 --> 1:17:42.200 actually turn around and come back at you. Yeah. Yeah, 1:17:42.439 --> 1:17:45.040 so it only kind of makes it worse. I don't. 1:17:45.439 --> 1:17:47.240 I mean, you know it, I was like, how long 1:17:47.320 --> 1:17:49.120 am I gonna be able to do this? Well? Right, 1:17:49.200 --> 1:17:51.040 And it's like, you know, I'm not even deciding to 1:17:51.120 --> 1:17:53.560 do this, but as my brains thinking through it, it's like, 1:17:53.600 --> 1:17:56.519 holy sho it, I just dodged it. Not like it 1:17:56.680 --> 1:18:00.439 very acting at this point, you're not making conrect decisions. Yeah, exactly. 1:18:00.520 --> 1:18:03.760 I'm wearing chacos, I've got sandals on, which are like 1:18:04.280 --> 1:18:06.320 really nice for being nimble, but you know, my feet 1:18:06.320 --> 1:18:08.400 are all exposed and everything is not prepared for this. 1:18:08.640 --> 1:18:12.400 Did the thought of playing dead and like curling up 1:18:12.439 --> 1:18:15.080 into a ball and protecting vitals like to back the 1:18:15.200 --> 1:18:17.920 neck and your your cord. Did that ever come through 1:18:18.000 --> 1:18:21.800 your head? Um it, it didn't. I mean that is 1:18:21.840 --> 1:18:23.439 part of what you're supposed to do, like if it 1:18:23.520 --> 1:18:26.160 makes contact with you, you know, play dead, protect your 1:18:26.320 --> 1:18:28.280 like lay on your on your stomach and put your 1:18:28.360 --> 1:18:30.639 legs out and put your fingers in your lace behind 1:18:30.680 --> 1:18:32.360 your neck to protect your spine and all that stuff. 1:18:32.560 --> 1:18:35.240 Um which maybe it's you know, you have a plan 1:18:35.320 --> 1:18:37.639 until you get punched in the face sort of a scenario. 1:18:37.800 --> 1:18:41.920 But um it, it felt like if I did that 1:18:42.000 --> 1:18:45.479 then it was just gonna do some real damage. Which 1:18:46.000 --> 1:18:51.360 I mean, yeah, I don't know, but you do get 1:18:51.360 --> 1:18:53.120 punched in the face. I do get punched in the face. 1:18:53.160 --> 1:18:54.640 So I dodge it a couple more times where I 1:18:54.720 --> 1:18:57.600 was able to quote successfully dodge it, meaning that it 1:18:57.640 --> 1:19:01.040 didn't bite me. Like you don't know, maybe you're getting 1:19:01.080 --> 1:19:03.040 like scratched. Oh I I know at this point that 1:19:03.120 --> 1:19:05.600 I'm getting scratched. You know, I feel he's hit me 1:19:05.680 --> 1:19:07.680 with his claws down my arm, down my back. I 1:19:07.760 --> 1:19:10.000 can feel it, and it feels like I'm just getting 1:19:10.080 --> 1:19:13.760 laid open like as soon as it hits me, but 1:19:14.040 --> 1:19:16.719 you know, your adrenaline's wine and at the red redline, 1:19:16.760 --> 1:19:20.479 and you're just moving super fast, and bears moving faster, 1:19:20.600 --> 1:19:22.640 and every time we got closer and closer, every time 1:19:22.680 --> 1:19:26.240 I dodged it. And so the next time it its 1:19:26.320 --> 1:19:28.040 head is now close enough where I can just like 1:19:28.120 --> 1:19:30.479 turn and bite my leg, and it goes to bite 1:19:30.520 --> 1:19:34.960 my leg and again super fast and just like we're 1:19:34.960 --> 1:19:37.320 all spinning around each other, and I pull my leg 1:19:37.360 --> 1:19:38.600 out of the way at the last second, and then 1:19:38.640 --> 1:19:41.360 jaws snapshot right next to my leg, and at that 1:19:41.479 --> 1:19:44.719 same moment, it reaches up with its paw and swipes 1:19:44.760 --> 1:19:48.080 me across the face and just smacks it just bam. 1:19:48.960 --> 1:19:51.360 Yeah you're saying it was like as hard as you 1:19:51.400 --> 1:19:55.679 could just ever imagine being hit. Yeah, with the flat pad. 1:19:56.040 --> 1:19:58.400 Yeah yeah. I saw the pad when it was a 1:19:58.439 --> 1:20:00.280 couple inches from my face, and it it is like 1:20:00.960 --> 1:20:03.840 millisecond where my brain is like oh no, And it 1:20:03.960 --> 1:20:08.040 was I compare it to like a board wrapped in 1:20:08.160 --> 1:20:11.400 leather that's just on a hydraulic arm. It's just swinging 1:20:11.800 --> 1:20:14.760 and when it hits my head, it just doesn't react 1:20:14.800 --> 1:20:16.160 at all. It's like swatting a bug out of the 1:20:16.320 --> 1:20:19.400 out of the out of the air and huge amount 1:20:19.439 --> 1:20:21.439 of power. My head whips to the side and I 1:20:21.520 --> 1:20:23.760 went flying to the side. And that's when I that's 1:20:23.800 --> 1:20:26.680 when I truly realized, like there was nothing physically that 1:20:26.760 --> 1:20:29.720 I could do to fight this bear. It's just so 1:20:29.920 --> 1:20:36.479 much Yeah, yeah, no fisticuffs And ah did that take 1:20:36.520 --> 1:20:39.439 you off your feet when he hits you in the face? Yeah? Clean, 1:20:39.680 --> 1:20:41.800 clean off my feet, like threw me to the side. 1:20:42.439 --> 1:20:46.360 I'm midair, and then that same paw caught me like 1:20:46.439 --> 1:20:48.120 around the hip and and threw me down to the 1:20:48.200 --> 1:20:51.600 ground on my tailbone. And then again like in that 1:20:51.760 --> 1:20:54.280 same motion. I'm down on the ground and its head 1:20:54.400 --> 1:20:57.040 is is now right at my right at my thigh. 1:20:57.520 --> 1:21:01.160 And people are like, so the adrenaline rush take care 1:21:01.160 --> 1:21:05.439 of the pain, And it didn't it. Uh. I felt 1:21:05.479 --> 1:21:07.880 its teeth going both sides of my leg. So he 1:21:08.000 --> 1:21:11.320 does open mouth all the way around your leg, top 1:21:11.360 --> 1:21:17.439 of my thigh. And this is where like this part 1:21:17.479 --> 1:21:20.880 of the stories where the playing dead thing gets really interesting. Yeah, 1:21:21.479 --> 1:21:24.400 because you don't play dead, no, but here he is 1:21:24.439 --> 1:21:27.360 he's like clearly coming to get you. Yeah, he's got 1:21:27.400 --> 1:21:29.960 a lot of energy into getting you. Yeah, he's hit you, 1:21:30.479 --> 1:21:35.760 scratched you, grabs your leg. Yeah. I've been screaming the 1:21:35.960 --> 1:21:38.280 you know, the last couple of passes, yelling known help, 1:21:38.360 --> 1:21:44.479 and and all of a sudden you blackout. Yeah, vasovagel response. 1:21:45.280 --> 1:21:47.840 It bites me. It's just like a switch and I'm 1:21:47.880 --> 1:21:53.000 out and it's just black. How time do you think 1:21:53.040 --> 1:21:55.400 goes by when you black out? I don't think it 1:21:55.520 --> 1:21:58.320 was long. But I was just so sure I was 1:21:58.360 --> 1:22:02.799 about to die. And it's just like this really surreal 1:22:03.280 --> 1:22:07.800 sensation to have the switch that saved me. I mean, 1:22:07.880 --> 1:22:10.240 that's what That's what it gets interesting, man, because so 1:22:10.479 --> 1:22:12.840 but let me let me focus on the bite a minute. Yeah. 1:22:13.160 --> 1:22:16.280 Um was the when he beat you and he's kind 1:22:16.320 --> 1:22:19.320 of like biting you at the seam of your leg. Yeah, 1:22:19.520 --> 1:22:22.840 right where the leg joins the hip, the pelvis right 1:22:22.920 --> 1:22:27.080 below that, yeah, like right in that whole junction. Scroll 1:22:27.840 --> 1:22:31.000 you're for moral artery, Yeah, the growing you could call 1:22:31.040 --> 1:22:35.760 it the groin. Yeah, yeah, um, are do you think 1:22:35.880 --> 1:22:39.800 like that's a fatal bite? Aren't you that clear? I 1:22:39.880 --> 1:22:42.120 mean to me, it was like this is the end. 1:22:42.439 --> 1:22:44.640 I wasn't like you know, oh, I've got all this, 1:22:45.120 --> 1:22:48.200 all this really crucial material there that that can be 1:22:48.320 --> 1:22:50.120 the end. It was just like, I am about to 1:22:50.200 --> 1:22:53.000 die because this will not be the only injury. This 1:22:53.160 --> 1:22:57.200 bear is gonna do much more to me. And yeah, 1:22:57.240 --> 1:22:59.400 I'm not gonna dodge it once I'm laying on the 1:22:59.479 --> 1:23:03.280 ground and he pass out and it pass out. And 1:23:03.360 --> 1:23:07.120 I played that incredibly effectively. In Michigan, we call that 1:23:07.240 --> 1:23:12.040 playing possum. Yeah, yep, exactly. But you know what, you 1:23:12.120 --> 1:23:14.960 know it's aptly named because I didn't know this until 1:23:15.000 --> 1:23:19.280 I was talking to our colleague Sam longern Um. Playing 1:23:19.360 --> 1:23:24.639 possum is not intentional. Yeah, they're not like I'll play possum. 1:23:24.960 --> 1:23:29.400 They like just get overwhelmed. And yeah, going to a state, 1:23:29.560 --> 1:23:32.920 like it's not like it's not voluntary, he goes into 1:23:32.960 --> 1:23:35.560 a state. Yeah, so very similar. Yeah, they become overcommon 1:23:35.680 --> 1:23:38.280 is going to a state. Yeah, isn't like that when 1:23:38.520 --> 1:23:41.960 when animals are attacked by a predator and then go 1:23:42.160 --> 1:23:47.400 limp And it's not that you're necessarily Yeah, it's an 1:23:47.439 --> 1:23:52.439 evolutionary defense mechanism. So how long did think you passed 1:23:52.439 --> 1:23:55.400 out for? Do you have any estimation? My estimation is 1:23:55.680 --> 1:23:58.360 not long at all. My total time away from camp 1:23:58.479 --> 1:24:02.280 was really short. Oh that's a good way. Yeah, so 1:24:03.240 --> 1:24:06.120 maybe not minutes. Yeah, right, it could have been less 1:24:06.160 --> 1:24:09.720 than minutes. In minutes. And what position do you wake 1:24:09.840 --> 1:24:14.840 up in? Uh? Fetal position? Face down, like degrees from 1:24:15.040 --> 1:24:17.720 how fetal position? Face down like some kind of yoga thing, 1:24:17.840 --> 1:24:19.640 or like you're on your side but your face is 1:24:19.680 --> 1:24:25.160 turned like child's post. Child, I want you to get 1:24:25.160 --> 1:24:28.680 down and show. I mean like in my mind, and 1:24:28.760 --> 1:24:30.519 I was a little disoriented when I came to, but 1:24:30.640 --> 1:24:33.519 it was just like, hey, he's down, he's rising from 1:24:33.560 --> 1:24:38.120 his seat, he's getting child's post. Everybody, Okay, he's on 1:24:38.240 --> 1:24:40.479 his knees. He's Oh really that's how you won't go 1:24:40.680 --> 1:24:44.800 that's child's post. But in the air. Again, that's a 1:24:44.920 --> 1:24:48.599 strange position to wake up in. Yeah, like that's gonna wait, 1:24:48.680 --> 1:24:50.960 that's like an awake But I would I thought you 1:24:51.040 --> 1:24:54.160 meant that you somehow we're like fetal position, Like you're 1:24:54.160 --> 1:24:56.160 sleeping on your side in the fetal position, but your 1:24:56.200 --> 1:24:59.000 face was cocked down into the tundra. Yeah, I know, 1:24:59.160 --> 1:25:01.800 I as as I can tell. It was that like 1:25:01.880 --> 1:25:04.040 curled in a ball, face down, knees and knees and 1:25:04.080 --> 1:25:06.599 elbows and face down to the ground and you open 1:25:06.680 --> 1:25:09.599 your eyes and what do you see? Uh, the world's 1:25:09.640 --> 1:25:13.439 kind of spinning, And then I see the horizon and 1:25:13.520 --> 1:25:15.320 then I see that the bear is still there, but 1:25:15.479 --> 1:25:19.120 it's running away at a trot, and it's checking me 1:25:19.160 --> 1:25:22.000 out as it goes. And at this point, I agree 1:25:22.040 --> 1:25:27.200 inconscious at the point when he had you like he 1:25:27.520 --> 1:25:33.160 had you dead to right, yep, let the feast begin. Well, 1:25:33.160 --> 1:25:35.560 And that's the that's the key difference between like a 1:25:35.600 --> 1:25:38.400 predaceous encounter and a defensive encounter. So that's what gives 1:25:38.479 --> 1:25:40.800 such credence to like the playing dead things. That's some 1:25:41.000 --> 1:25:45.160 bitch goes through all that and really, you know, like 1:25:45.240 --> 1:25:47.320 someone tells you something and you like don't believe. Then 1:25:47.400 --> 1:25:49.519 later you're like, oh no, he really didn't. Like he 1:25:49.680 --> 1:25:55.720 was like, I'm sorry, I found you threatening. Um had 1:25:56.280 --> 1:25:59.320 you stop being threatening? And I left? I mean, like, 1:25:59.720 --> 1:26:04.440 my yep, you seem threatening. Yeah, that's all this was exactly, 1:26:04.720 --> 1:26:06.719 you know, And that and that kind of a lines 1:26:06.800 --> 1:26:09.200 up with how it acted throughout the encounter too. It's like, 1:26:09.320 --> 1:26:12.880 what am I dealing with this? What do I do? Yeah? 1:26:13.560 --> 1:26:16.800 And also went quiet limp. But he's like, yeah, all right, drop, 1:26:16.840 --> 1:26:18.640 my chuck is done. I gotta go. I gotta put 1:26:18.680 --> 1:26:22.960 some ice on my snout from that Pelican case and 1:26:23.439 --> 1:26:26.360 as so, and you like you don't know, I mean 1:26:26.400 --> 1:26:28.320 he could come back and get you. Oh yeah. I 1:26:28.400 --> 1:26:30.519 was absolutely terrified that was about to happen. So I 1:26:30.560 --> 1:26:33.320 played dead consciously at that point, totally averted my eyes 1:26:33.360 --> 1:26:35.240 so I could just see him, wait for him to 1:26:35.320 --> 1:26:37.519 go completely. Like I said, he's just watching me the 1:26:37.560 --> 1:26:42.240 whole time. And are you feeling, um, what's your understanding 1:26:42.280 --> 1:26:44.280 of your injuries at this point, You're like so out 1:26:44.320 --> 1:26:47.559 of it. Uh my feeling my my feeling slash understanding 1:26:47.640 --> 1:26:51.559 is I don't care? Because I was you felt very alive. Yeah. 1:26:51.680 --> 1:26:54.080 I was so sure I was about to die. And 1:26:54.160 --> 1:26:57.160 then it was like getting a second chance, like euphoria. 1:26:57.760 --> 1:27:03.280 It was. Yeah. I was just totally totally fork, like 1:27:03.680 --> 1:27:07.559 so excited that I was seeing things again. And then 1:27:07.600 --> 1:27:09.360 when I saw that bear again, it was like back 1:27:09.439 --> 1:27:13.400 to dread. Oh ship, it's still here, Like, what's it 1:27:13.439 --> 1:27:16.560 gonna do now? So I just was you know, my 1:27:16.680 --> 1:27:19.160 mission at that point was do everything that I could 1:27:19.280 --> 1:27:21.920 to make it not think that I was back in 1:27:22.000 --> 1:27:24.439 the fight and I think that its job really was 1:27:24.640 --> 1:27:26.600 done and that it was able to leave. Um, but 1:27:26.680 --> 1:27:28.600 I was absolutely terrified. This is like, you know what, 1:27:29.160 --> 1:27:32.800 it needs a little bit more tossing around or whatever. Yeah, 1:27:32.960 --> 1:27:35.160 to go back and shake that thing and eat it. Yeah, yeah, 1:27:35.320 --> 1:27:37.880 which you know sometimes happens. What's weird too about it 1:27:38.240 --> 1:27:42.559 and about bears in general, is um, it's eating all man. 1:27:42.880 --> 1:27:46.200 You have to assume it's killed neaton, muskox calves, it's 1:27:46.200 --> 1:27:54.520 scavenge muskox carcasses, kills the neats, caribou calves, scavenges carcasses, eats, marmots, 1:27:55.680 --> 1:27:57.680 whatever the hell it gets hands on, right, And here 1:27:57.720 --> 1:28:00.960 it's got like a hundred fifty pounds. It was still 1:28:01.280 --> 1:28:08.240 warm protein that hasn't showered in months. Yeah, Like like 1:28:08.680 --> 1:28:12.080 what is their comprehension of Like two days later would 1:28:12.080 --> 1:28:13.400 they have gone back up there and eight you you know, 1:28:13.439 --> 1:28:15.800 I mean like, what is this comprehension of? Like what's food? 1:28:15.920 --> 1:28:19.040 Not food? It's like I killed this big thing. Yeah, 1:28:19.240 --> 1:28:22.280 it's made out of meat, But I will continue my 1:28:22.439 --> 1:28:27.400 wanderings to look for a little ground squirrels and lemmings 1:28:27.520 --> 1:28:31.320 and patches of berries whatever else comes around. Like that's 1:28:31.360 --> 1:28:34.960 not food right, Well, I mean that's the that's what's 1:28:35.000 --> 1:28:37.360 so like bizarre. But what is in their head? Well, 1:28:37.360 --> 1:28:39.439 and that's that's like why are you not food? That's 1:28:39.479 --> 1:28:43.000 the difference right between a healthy bear and a and 1:28:43.040 --> 1:28:45.160 a bear that's not getting in a food or that's sickly. 1:28:45.720 --> 1:28:50.080 You know, it's it looked good like this bear did 1:28:50.120 --> 1:28:53.160 not look scrawny. You know, it's well built. Um, you 1:28:53.240 --> 1:29:00.080 just didn't smell right, Yeah, I'm not. I'm not what 1:29:00.160 --> 1:29:03.519 it normally perceives as food. I don't you know, look 1:29:03.600 --> 1:29:06.960 like that. It's just it's so curious, like what makes it? Uh, 1:29:08.400 --> 1:29:10.880 what that decision process is? Like I have a feeling 1:29:10.920 --> 1:29:14.160 it relates a lot to you know, what happened before 1:29:14.920 --> 1:29:18.519 this situation. You know, is it is it is everything 1:29:18.560 --> 1:29:20.760 going well, you know for this bear or is it 1:29:21.000 --> 1:29:24.760 in dire straits? Is it going to use this opportunity 1:29:24.880 --> 1:29:28.280 to have a meal or is it just going to 1:29:28.400 --> 1:29:31.080 get away because you know, it wasn't looking for a 1:29:31.120 --> 1:29:34.080 meal or Yeah, like the something about the scenario was 1:29:34.160 --> 1:29:38.120 alarming enough to it and unusual enough that it just 1:29:38.320 --> 1:29:40.560 wasn't in a like eating mood. It was in a 1:29:40.880 --> 1:29:43.920 save myself, protect myself and get out of here, like 1:29:44.000 --> 1:29:46.080 I don't know what this is, right, I don't know 1:29:46.160 --> 1:29:49.000 what's going on. Yeah, here's my window of opportunity to 1:29:49.040 --> 1:29:53.920 get away, right, Yeah, he's as scared as you are. Yeah, exactly. 1:29:54.880 --> 1:29:58.080 So it turns and goes and it disappears over the 1:29:58.160 --> 1:30:00.320 ridge and I can't remember. I feel like thought to 1:30:00.360 --> 1:30:03.920 grab your camera. Yeah, for some reason, I was I 1:30:04.640 --> 1:30:06.120 have I had things I brought up with me. I 1:30:06.160 --> 1:30:11.080 gotta bring my things back that you talk. You thought 1:30:11.120 --> 1:30:14.759 to go get your camera. Very practical in that situation, 1:30:15.439 --> 1:30:17.880 as Yeah. Then I haul asked, and I'm just checking 1:30:17.960 --> 1:30:19.840 my six the whole time, trying to make sure that 1:30:19.920 --> 1:30:21.800 it's not coming back. And then you realize your feet 1:30:21.840 --> 1:30:24.160 are bleeding. My feet are bleeding. I didn't realize that 1:30:24.240 --> 1:30:26.639 until I was don't coming down the ridge to camp. 1:30:26.760 --> 1:30:28.800 But I knew that my leg was screwed up because 1:30:29.000 --> 1:30:31.880 it uh, it hurt quite a bit, and I checked 1:30:31.920 --> 1:30:33.439 it and thought it was covered in blood. It was 1:30:33.600 --> 1:30:37.320 just covering bear saliva. Turned tail and started going back 1:30:37.320 --> 1:30:38.519 to camp because I was like, I need to get 1:30:38.560 --> 1:30:41.240 back there before my adrenaline rush wears off, because I 1:30:41.320 --> 1:30:45.479 knew it was significantly injured I just didn't know what 1:30:45.640 --> 1:30:48.280 those injuries were. And you know, if I had a 1:30:48.360 --> 1:30:52.240 clock ticking or whatever, um, and he's gonna come back 1:30:52.280 --> 1:30:54.479 and kill you, right, Yeah. I definitely felt like I 1:30:54.520 --> 1:30:57.240 had that thing to worry about. So I needed to 1:30:57.280 --> 1:30:59.320 get back to the guys, back to the bear poppers, 1:30:59.400 --> 1:31:02.040 back to the bear spray and everything that all the 1:31:02.120 --> 1:31:06.280 support that I had back there. So describe the wound like, 1:31:06.360 --> 1:31:08.920 you get down and they strip you. Yeah, they kind 1:31:08.960 --> 1:31:11.120 of run up to meet you. You're screaming like holy hell. 1:31:11.360 --> 1:31:14.360 Yeah yeah, And and so they all are starting to 1:31:14.439 --> 1:31:16.120 get you know, all the stuff, and and they come 1:31:16.200 --> 1:31:18.040 up to get me and and help carry me down 1:31:18.040 --> 1:31:19.400 the last little bit because by the time I got 1:31:19.439 --> 1:31:22.080 to the bottom, I couldn't move my leg anymore and 1:31:22.680 --> 1:31:26.640 I had scraped and bruises all over. Um. But the 1:31:26.800 --> 1:31:29.200 main wound was right at the top of my leg. 1:31:29.240 --> 1:31:31.800 They're one of the canines went into full depth of 1:31:31.840 --> 1:31:35.519 the tooth and a puncture wound right at the that 1:31:36.040 --> 1:31:39.920 joint between my leg and my hip girdle quarter inch 1:31:40.000 --> 1:31:44.040 from my femoral artery. Um that you if you hit that, 1:31:44.120 --> 1:31:46.960 you'd have been that's it. Yeah, I probably would have 1:31:47.080 --> 1:31:50.000 been no, you can't. As as you explained the book, 1:31:50.000 --> 1:31:52.120 you smell the complication, but there's no like immediate source 1:31:52.160 --> 1:31:55.519 of help, right, serious help. Yeah. And I mean even 1:31:55.560 --> 1:31:57.600 if there had been an immediate source of help me, 1:31:57.800 --> 1:32:00.400 it's like hours. Yeah. And and a fhemoral bleed is 1:32:00.479 --> 1:32:04.720 minutes three ish minutes, you know, good a good illustration. 1:32:04.800 --> 1:32:07.080 That's black Hawk down when he you know, they're trying 1:32:07.120 --> 1:32:11.439 to put some hemust out on the on the femoral 1:32:11.520 --> 1:32:13.960 bleed from that, it's just like spurting and you bleed 1:32:14.000 --> 1:32:18.400 out really fast. Um. So that would have been really bad. 1:32:18.720 --> 1:32:21.200 Right next to that puncture when that same canine had 1:32:21.240 --> 1:32:25.000 pushed in to the full depth but hadn't. Um, it 1:32:25.120 --> 1:32:27.000 wasn't a puncture when it's just a really bad compression 1:32:27.000 --> 1:32:30.160 when with some surface injuries. Um, that compressed all the 1:32:30.240 --> 1:32:33.080 tissue and did some serious damage to the muscle. Um, 1:32:33.200 --> 1:32:35.240 but wasn't like bleeding. And I had several more of 1:32:35.280 --> 1:32:37.720 those wrapping around my thigh from the other teeth, so 1:32:38.280 --> 1:32:40.400 the whole my whole leg had been in its mouth, 1:32:40.520 --> 1:32:44.519 but it was really um. Just the main puncture was 1:32:44.640 --> 1:32:47.760 the source of bleeding, which was super lucky because we 1:32:47.760 --> 1:32:50.080 were able to control it pretty well. Like I don't say, like, 1:32:50.120 --> 1:32:51.560 what hap did the tips of your toes? Do you 1:32:51.600 --> 1:32:54.280 have not have any idea? I don't Like I said, 1:32:54.320 --> 1:32:57.840 I was wearing sandals and the tips of my left 1:32:58.840 --> 1:33:01.200 big toe and the and the Jason to's are just 1:33:01.320 --> 1:33:05.080 like sliced clean off like evulsions. Um, that's my buddy. 1:33:05.160 --> 1:33:09.040 Ronnie hates sandals. He's gonna love this because he lovesn't 1:33:09.040 --> 1:33:11.640 like him because what if there's a volcano or you 1:33:11.720 --> 1:33:14.120 get attacked by her grizzily. Oh no, this is gonna 1:33:14.120 --> 1:33:15.559 be like, this is gonna back him off. You want 1:33:15.600 --> 1:33:18.200 to be nimble in that situation. We we often have 1:33:18.280 --> 1:33:20.400 a debate about whether sandals are okay or not because 1:33:20.439 --> 1:33:22.360 how you're gonna defend your family. And we got a 1:33:22.439 --> 1:33:24.840 great email from a guy who wanted being in a 1:33:24.920 --> 1:33:27.880 micro burst which like felt like two trees on his 1:33:28.000 --> 1:33:30.640 property and all his creating damage his house. And he 1:33:30.720 --> 1:33:32.960 was out in his sandals when it happened, and he 1:33:33.040 --> 1:33:36.160 did everything is he should do, And only later after 1:33:36.280 --> 1:33:38.960 this whole thing played out, someone's like, where's your shoes? 1:33:39.720 --> 1:33:42.400 And he realized he'd done it all barefoot. His take 1:33:42.520 --> 1:33:46.320 is doesn't matter when it really matters, it doesn't matter. Yep, 1:33:46.760 --> 1:33:50.439 exactly like he had no idea. Yeah did he done 1:33:50.520 --> 1:33:55.680 all this like crazy shit barefoot? Yeah, never occurred to him. 1:33:55.680 --> 1:33:58.120 You don't think when it matters. You know what you 1:33:58.200 --> 1:33:59.519 got on your feet, You're gonna do what you need to. 1:34:00.040 --> 1:34:02.000 It could play in those if you did receive some 1:34:02.160 --> 1:34:05.200 injuries from having sandals on, like Alex did, and then 1:34:05.240 --> 1:34:08.640 you had to continue on and you weren't at your 1:34:08.680 --> 1:34:11.320 house and in a town, Yeah, it could play into 1:34:11.360 --> 1:34:16.120 the I'm guessing, especially if you're on a rocky hillside. 1:34:16.360 --> 1:34:19.240 Rocks can be sharp, yeah, and you're getting tossed around 1:34:19.280 --> 1:34:21.679 and you're jumping and left and right, you very easily 1:34:21.720 --> 1:34:23.880 could have I mean, it wouldn't be hard right now 1:34:23.920 --> 1:34:25.880 to go outside, take your shoes off and kick a 1:34:26.000 --> 1:34:29.360 rock and probably and probably you know, replicate the same. 1:34:29.840 --> 1:34:32.200 That's not what I think happened. What's your theory. I 1:34:32.240 --> 1:34:35.080 think that when you were passed out, he very delicately 1:34:35.880 --> 1:34:38.120 took his teeth and just nipped off the end of 1:34:38.160 --> 1:34:40.439 some of your toes and then he tasted badly and 1:34:40.840 --> 1:34:44.439 he's like, yeah, yuck, feet, I'm gonna run out of here. 1:34:46.280 --> 1:34:48.240 You should have looked around next to your pelican case. 1:34:48.320 --> 1:34:52.320 Your toe tips are probably there. Yeah, now, a raven 1:34:52.400 --> 1:34:54.560 probably ate him at this point, at the bottom of 1:34:54.640 --> 1:34:58.519 the hill, they strip you down. Are you now, um? 1:35:00.760 --> 1:35:03.400 How how with it are you at this point? I'm 1:35:03.439 --> 1:35:06.840 super with it? Are you like? I will live? Well? 1:35:07.000 --> 1:35:08.760 I was like, I'm pretty sure I'm gonna live, but 1:35:09.120 --> 1:35:11.160 I'm gonna ask I mean ask Dan because he knows 1:35:11.240 --> 1:35:16.479 better than me, and I think that's you know, a 1:35:16.560 --> 1:35:18.400 quote in the in the book, and he's like, yeah, 1:35:18.439 --> 1:35:20.760 you're you're gonna live, Like, okay, good. I was pretty sure, 1:35:20.920 --> 1:35:23.960 but I just need to check because you know, you 1:35:24.040 --> 1:35:26.280 still got to be shaken. Oh yeah, I mean I'm 1:35:26.640 --> 1:35:31.560 I'm uh just terrified and coming down off of a 1:35:32.000 --> 1:35:35.960 you know, crazy adrenaline rush, um and coming off of that, 1:35:36.040 --> 1:35:38.680 you know, I almost pass out again and um. But 1:35:39.240 --> 1:35:41.160 you know, one of the important things when you're um 1:35:42.200 --> 1:35:44.960 assessing someone who's just had something crazy happened that you 1:35:45.000 --> 1:35:47.120 know they're not positive what will happen is making sure 1:35:47.160 --> 1:35:50.320 that they don't have hidden injuries somewhere or distracting injury 1:35:50.400 --> 1:35:52.880 that's making you miss what the important thing is. So 1:35:53.960 --> 1:35:56.559 he did a good job of doing that full assessment 1:35:56.600 --> 1:35:58.760 and making sure that these are the thing these are 1:35:58.800 --> 1:36:02.200 the things that are going on right now. So did 1:36:03.160 --> 1:36:09.479 during the attack, did you lose your sense of time? 1:36:09.640 --> 1:36:11.400 Or does it seem like things played in the way 1:36:11.400 --> 1:36:15.519 they should have played? So like, when you review it, 1:36:16.120 --> 1:36:17.920 does it seem like it took too long or went 1:36:18.000 --> 1:36:20.519 too fast or does it feel normal to you? It 1:36:20.640 --> 1:36:24.240 feels normal, with the exception of the um laps in 1:36:24.280 --> 1:36:27.679 consciousness like that, there's just no actual sense of time. 1:36:28.320 --> 1:36:29.640 It's kind of like when you go to sleep. You know, 1:36:29.720 --> 1:36:31.479 he might wake up and feel like you slept for 1:36:31.720 --> 1:36:34.599 a minute and you've actually been asleep for a super 1:36:34.640 --> 1:36:37.840 long time. So I had no actual sense for that, 1:36:38.000 --> 1:36:41.519 but the rest of it plays in real time. What 1:36:41.720 --> 1:36:46.360 was different was, um, my senses and my thought process. 1:36:46.439 --> 1:36:49.760 We're just going so fast, Like I didn't have to 1:36:49.880 --> 1:36:52.760 wait for my brain to think through things. Um it 1:36:52.960 --> 1:36:57.479 was either helping me just make conscious decisions so quickly, 1:36:58.160 --> 1:37:01.080 or making decisions for me based on you know whatever. 1:37:01.280 --> 1:37:04.720 That was best. After we had a run in with 1:37:04.800 --> 1:37:09.799 a bear, it wasn't anything like yours. Hurt UM inspired 1:37:09.840 --> 1:37:13.160 me to read a little bit about uh, how time 1:37:13.240 --> 1:37:17.519 passes during like near death experience moments right um extremely 1:37:17.600 --> 1:37:21.920 high stressed moments. And there's these different responses, which is um, 1:37:23.320 --> 1:37:28.280 you can become fixated on a detail and miss a 1:37:28.400 --> 1:37:33.880 lot tunnel vision, or you can become aware of general 1:37:33.960 --> 1:37:41.000 pandemonium and not have details. Uh, the lapses and how 1:37:41.120 --> 1:37:46.600 time works is later like like your your sense that 1:37:46.680 --> 1:37:49.360 it went fast or I saw my life flash before 1:37:49.439 --> 1:37:52.760 my eyes. Some people think it's something that gets laid 1:37:52.880 --> 1:37:55.600 over in memory and that you probably didn't experience it 1:37:55.680 --> 1:37:57.560 that way, but you can't. When you go to remember it, 1:37:57.720 --> 1:38:01.439 everything compresses or not because of all the things that 1:38:01.520 --> 1:38:03.760 you missed when you were fixated on a detail or 1:38:03.920 --> 1:38:07.080 living like a detail list environment. Meaning when if you 1:38:07.120 --> 1:38:09.640 fall off the roof and land on the ground and 1:38:09.760 --> 1:38:11.880 you recollect what the fall was like, that's probably not 1:38:11.960 --> 1:38:15.560 what the fall was like. Yeah, it gets confused and 1:38:15.600 --> 1:38:21.080 you try to explain the event right because the event 1:38:21.120 --> 1:38:24.599 didn't play out like it took away your your sense 1:38:24.640 --> 1:38:28.720 of self awareness, like your your your mental system went 1:38:28.760 --> 1:38:31.480 out the window. The whole way you calibrate your experiences 1:38:31.520 --> 1:38:33.400 and understand the passage of time, like you were in 1:38:34.040 --> 1:38:36.240 in a situation that made no sense to you and 1:38:36.320 --> 1:38:38.360 so all the things you normally do to sort of 1:38:38.439 --> 1:38:41.800 like keep your equilibrium so to speak, in life, are 1:38:41.960 --> 1:38:44.720 are shed, you know. Saying that when they're training, like 1:38:44.880 --> 1:38:47.240 like people that are training like first responders and things. 1:38:47.640 --> 1:38:50.479 Is if you image you come into a horrible there's 1:38:50.520 --> 1:38:53.680 been an explosion, and you come into the explosion and 1:38:53.720 --> 1:39:00.200 there's a severed arm um, but there's still catastrophe laying 1:39:00.200 --> 1:39:03.479 out around you. Getting people to be like, there's a 1:39:03.560 --> 1:39:07.120 severed arm but I will still be aware of the 1:39:07.160 --> 1:39:09.360 fact that there's a building that's going to fall right, 1:39:09.840 --> 1:39:11.920 or there's a person that that arm came from, yeah, 1:39:12.080 --> 1:39:14.120 and not that you come in and you only see that, 1:39:14.560 --> 1:39:18.040 or that you come in and you're just overwhelmed by 1:39:18.160 --> 1:39:23.080 the immensity of all the things that make no sense 1:39:23.120 --> 1:39:27.160 to you and you see nothing right like, and I 1:39:27.280 --> 1:39:29.240 think that, like, what kind of person you are there? 1:39:30.560 --> 1:39:32.560 I became interested in that because I feel like the 1:39:32.600 --> 1:39:35.439 different people in our group when we had an experience 1:39:35.479 --> 1:39:38.080 like this, different people in our group revealed to be 1:39:38.160 --> 1:39:47.040 different versions. I'm the shitty version. I was detailed, just 1:39:47.640 --> 1:39:54.040 a detail, one detail, one detail, one like one crystalline 1:39:55.200 --> 1:39:58.200 detail is what I have in my head. And I 1:39:58.320 --> 1:40:01.120 can't fill the experience, and because all I have in 1:40:01.200 --> 1:40:04.880 my head is one thing that was probably right. It 1:40:05.000 --> 1:40:07.880 was probably like flash, but in my mind that drag 1:40:07.920 --> 1:40:11.519 down for an eternity, right, And so I look back 1:40:11.560 --> 1:40:13.240 and I can't make sense of the time. I can't 1:40:13.320 --> 1:40:15.800 understand how people's experiences. I just have this like thing. 1:40:15.960 --> 1:40:19.040 It's so annoying. And there were major things going on 1:40:19.240 --> 1:40:22.800 around me that I was completely unaware of. But in 1:40:22.880 --> 1:40:25.960 a sense, everybody had that too. Everybody had emergial body 1:40:26.200 --> 1:40:29.519 recollects what anybody else did. In those two seconds, he 1:40:29.640 --> 1:40:34.240 became everybody became singular and focused. Together, you are one, 1:40:34.600 --> 1:40:38.000 single and focused. Everybody knew their own experience, but all 1:40:38.040 --> 1:40:42.080 the people had a chronology, had at least a personal chronology. 1:40:43.400 --> 1:40:45.439 I don't even have a personal chronology. To me, it 1:40:45.520 --> 1:40:50.439 was a thing. It was an image, and the image started, 1:40:50.479 --> 1:40:52.519 the image edit and it was over. Other people are like, 1:40:52.600 --> 1:40:54.519 oh no, this happened, this happened, this happened, this happened. 1:40:54.520 --> 1:40:55.600 I have no idea what you were doing, but I 1:40:55.600 --> 1:40:58.080 don't know what I was doing. But I lost it all. 1:40:59.040 --> 1:41:01.760 It's like reading about your thing, like you you have 1:41:02.080 --> 1:41:05.519 whatever you did, you developed, maybe in recollection like a 1:41:05.560 --> 1:41:07.799 pretty like this happened, that happened, this happened, this happened, 1:41:08.360 --> 1:41:11.120 and deliver it a pretty plausible way. Yeah, and that 1:41:11.320 --> 1:41:13.439 was I mean, there's so much of it that's just 1:41:13.520 --> 1:41:16.760 incredibly vivid in my memory. Um. And then there's a 1:41:16.880 --> 1:41:19.720 lot of it that I had to dig super deep 1:41:19.760 --> 1:41:22.240 for the recall. Um. And that was one of the 1:41:22.320 --> 1:41:26.439 real challenges in writing it was was going back to 1:41:26.560 --> 1:41:32.320 that spot in my mind and just pulling those memories 1:41:32.439 --> 1:41:35.000 out of the deep storage that some of them were 1:41:35.560 --> 1:41:38.120 hidden in. UM. That's what I was going to ask 1:41:38.160 --> 1:41:42.360 about because the way that you right, it's so detailed, 1:41:42.920 --> 1:41:46.360 I mean, the you know, from being in the moment 1:41:46.479 --> 1:41:48.200 with the memory too. And I was going to ask, 1:41:48.240 --> 1:41:49.920 I know that you kept a journal on this, but 1:41:50.880 --> 1:41:55.080 you know, is recall different from and we can't really 1:41:55.160 --> 1:41:58.160 know from from the exact moment that you're experiencing, you know, 1:41:58.280 --> 1:42:01.200 how the wind feels against your skin in or the 1:42:01.320 --> 1:42:05.080 smell of something that you recall, and then and then 1:42:05.320 --> 1:42:09.960 articulating kind of the play by play in such great detail, 1:42:10.960 --> 1:42:15.559 you know. Yeah, And that's I mean, that was um, 1:42:16.760 --> 1:42:18.479 one of the I mean, that's always the challenge with 1:42:18.600 --> 1:42:23.000 writing memoir especially, and that journal was incredibly valuable for me. 1:42:23.560 --> 1:42:25.840 I journaled, you know, throughout the trip, so I had 1:42:26.080 --> 1:42:29.200 a very accurate log of every single meal we ate 1:42:30.760 --> 1:42:36.519 and there and then you also had people there too. Yeah, 1:42:36.640 --> 1:42:38.720 so that was valuable. I don't want to. I don't 1:42:38.720 --> 1:42:41.479 want to, like, uh, I got a couple more questions 1:42:41.520 --> 1:42:43.320 for you, sure, But first I want to just explain 1:42:43.400 --> 1:42:46.000 one thing. How many miles at this point? How many 1:42:46.040 --> 1:42:49.280 miles are you from the nearest piece of aircraft? Um, 1:42:49.600 --> 1:42:54.280 we're we have like over a hundred miles of paddling left. 1:42:54.439 --> 1:42:57.240 And then it's like I think it was it was 1:42:57.320 --> 1:43:00.400 like sixty five ish miles from the nearest aircraft, but 1:43:00.520 --> 1:43:03.400 there wasn't an aircraft available there. So it's like when 1:43:03.680 --> 1:43:06.559 like hundreds of miles to a helicopter. Yeah, I mean 1:43:06.680 --> 1:43:08.519 wherever the nearest one from that would have been at 1:43:08.560 --> 1:43:12.240 that point, I suppose, which hundreds, maybe thousands, I don't know. 1:43:12.760 --> 1:43:16.400 One of the other settlements down Hudson Bay, which I 1:43:16.439 --> 1:43:17.920 don't even know which one the next one is might 1:43:18.000 --> 1:43:19.960 have had an aircraft. Yeah. The reason I bring this 1:43:20.080 --> 1:43:23.599 up is I don't wanna Um, We've covered a lot 1:43:23.640 --> 1:43:26.240 of ground. Yeah, I just want to know, like I 1:43:26.360 --> 1:43:30.080 want to leave the chronology to be that here you 1:43:30.200 --> 1:43:34.280 are right, you've been mauled? Yeah, what next and the 1:43:34.400 --> 1:43:41.679 things that play out? Yeah after this yeah, um, we'll leave, okay, 1:43:41.880 --> 1:43:44.360 But what I want to know as my last question, 1:43:45.120 --> 1:43:49.920 how do you perceive grizzly bears? Now? Does it really 1:43:50.000 --> 1:43:52.120 bother you the idea that someone would hunt to grizzly 1:43:52.200 --> 1:43:56.519 bear because of this happening, like hunted this specific grizzly bear? 1:43:56.800 --> 1:43:58.679 Do you do? Can you find that you like would 1:43:58.720 --> 1:44:01.400 be like generally I'm on easy with people hunting because 1:44:01.439 --> 1:44:03.640 it's a contentious thing. Did it make you be like 1:44:04.040 --> 1:44:06.640 I respect him so much? Or do you feel that 1:44:06.680 --> 1:44:08.920 they're they're an animals on as there's healthy populations. Do 1:44:09.000 --> 1:44:11.160 you think of it as being like a mythic creature? Now? 1:44:11.800 --> 1:44:15.200 Is it like like what's your forget that part of it, 1:44:15.240 --> 1:44:16.760 forget like whether people show harum or not. I guess 1:44:16.800 --> 1:44:19.920 let's start with this, like how do you view not 1:44:20.240 --> 1:44:23.160 that bear? But how do you view bareness? Now? Yeah? 1:44:23.720 --> 1:44:28.400 Is it sacred? I have a tremendous respect for bears. 1:44:28.840 --> 1:44:32.479 Um sacred? I mean I would probably put my bear 1:44:32.560 --> 1:44:37.599 on that spectrum. Um. You know, I for me personally, 1:44:37.600 --> 1:44:40.120 I don't I don't think I could hunter bear myself. 1:44:40.280 --> 1:44:42.400 And you said you didn't want them to kill that bear, right, 1:44:42.800 --> 1:44:45.120 That's a real common thing I found with people. Yeah, 1:44:45.320 --> 1:44:47.320 not not they because a lot of people get mauled 1:44:47.320 --> 1:44:49.840 by bear. Didn't kill it. But in the moment, yeah, 1:44:50.080 --> 1:44:52.519 but later, I mean in the moment I would have 1:44:52.560 --> 1:44:54.680 defended myself. There's like a sense of forgive. There's a 1:44:54.760 --> 1:44:57.040 sense of forgiveness that seems to set in with people 1:44:57.720 --> 1:45:00.439 about a particular animal. Yeah, I mean you know bear, 1:45:00.560 --> 1:45:03.200 the mauld Amber that we had. Yeah, that bear is 1:45:03.240 --> 1:45:07.200 dead now, Yeah, I think I I listened to that. 1:45:07.960 --> 1:45:09.639 I happened to listen to that episode where you guys 1:45:09.640 --> 1:45:13.360 discussed that and then she didn't want it to be killed. Yeah. Yeah. 1:45:13.520 --> 1:45:15.599 And I mean once that's the that's the real challenge 1:45:15.640 --> 1:45:18.920 with bears is um, you know, once they start having 1:45:19.520 --> 1:45:22.160 these human encounters like it can it can just have 1:45:22.400 --> 1:45:25.560 such a detrimental effect on those bears. Um, And it 1:45:25.640 --> 1:45:28.320 can lead to you know, more and more problems and 1:45:28.520 --> 1:45:30.400 and eventually the bear having to be destroyed, which is 1:45:30.920 --> 1:45:33.360 you know, too bad. But this one just vanished into 1:45:33.400 --> 1:45:36.160 the landscape. Mine just vanished. We went out and looked, 1:45:36.200 --> 1:45:39.800 and they looked for it, and they were gonna see 1:45:39.840 --> 1:45:42.840 how it responded to people, basically determine if it was 1:45:42.880 --> 1:45:45.479 going to be a problem bear and then take you know, 1:45:45.920 --> 1:45:49.479 I like the strategy for that. Well, what we do, person, 1:45:49.600 --> 1:45:52.840 go up to it, Bob here and we'll see how it. 1:45:53.000 --> 1:45:56.240 Eric from Bob goes up. You know, Bob's quick with 1:45:56.320 --> 1:46:00.639 a shotgun. Bob was quick with the with a firearm. 1:46:00.680 --> 1:46:05.400 But like, I think back on on that explanation and like, really, 1:46:06.160 --> 1:46:09.600 is that actually what you guys do? Maybe it's like 1:46:09.680 --> 1:46:12.880 a very odd way to uh do that, but you know, 1:46:13.080 --> 1:46:15.600 at the same time, so yeah, they didn't have to 1:46:15.680 --> 1:46:17.640 do that, so I didn't have to worry about it. 1:46:18.160 --> 1:46:19.760 So I like to think that it's still out there 1:46:19.800 --> 1:46:22.320 and you know, doing its thing. It could have done 1:46:22.640 --> 1:46:24.519 a lot more to me, I mean, you know too 1:46:25.120 --> 1:46:28.040 earlier points that it could have decided that I was 1:46:28.080 --> 1:46:31.799 a meal, or it could have you know, bitten chunks 1:46:31.920 --> 1:46:34.720 out of me, or or maimed me for life, or 1:46:35.240 --> 1:46:40.360 or killed me straight up. Um, but it didn't. And uh, 1:46:40.720 --> 1:46:44.439 I'm incredibly appreciative of it for that, and Ultimately, it 1:46:44.520 --> 1:46:46.280 was just a bear being a bear and doing bear 1:46:46.360 --> 1:46:49.120 things in its own habitat, so it didn't do anything wrong. 1:46:49.560 --> 1:46:56.720 M hm, So I appreciate it. You got any follow ups? Yeah, um, 1:46:58.400 --> 1:47:01.120 I mean you touched on a little bit. But tell 1:47:01.200 --> 1:47:03.080 me how, Like, how do you think it affected everybody 1:47:03.120 --> 1:47:05.519 else on the trip? I mean Dan's like a major player, 1:47:05.640 --> 1:47:07.639 right because he's sort of he really has to take 1:47:07.720 --> 1:47:10.840 over at this point as the trip leader. But like 1:47:11.000 --> 1:47:16.120 your four bodies that are your aged, like, are they 1:47:16.240 --> 1:47:19.240 like holy sh it? Now, Okay, I can't sleep because 1:47:19.280 --> 1:47:21.320 we know there's a bear right near us and there 1:47:21.400 --> 1:47:24.280 could be more of these down the you know, waterway 1:47:24.400 --> 1:47:26.519 that we might come up on some more like, how 1:47:26.600 --> 1:47:29.679 did they change their experience for the remainder of the trip? Yeah, 1:47:29.720 --> 1:47:33.720 I mean it's um, it dramatically changes the trip, right, 1:47:33.760 --> 1:47:38.000 I mean the focus is different, the sense of vulnerability 1:47:38.120 --> 1:47:41.519 is totally different, and the and the responsibilities are are 1:47:41.840 --> 1:47:45.479 pretty different too. So I mean all of those guys 1:47:45.600 --> 1:47:49.519 had a lot of extra pressure on them to deal 1:47:49.560 --> 1:47:53.120 with that, um and they handled it well. Um, you know, 1:47:53.160 --> 1:47:56.599 they rose the occasion and and helped helped us get 1:47:56.640 --> 1:48:00.080 to where we needed to get. And um, della it 1:48:00.120 --> 1:48:02.400 a lot, but I'm very cognizant of the fact that 1:48:02.760 --> 1:48:05.720 from that point on it was just a very different trip, um. 1:48:06.160 --> 1:48:10.640 And I'm sure that they were seeing things differently at 1:48:10.680 --> 1:48:14.479 that point, um, because it's pretty and I would imagine 1:48:14.520 --> 1:48:16.759 at the time that even though they rose the occasion, 1:48:16.920 --> 1:48:20.040 maybe they did or did not like seize the moment 1:48:20.120 --> 1:48:21.519 and just say this is how it is. You know. 1:48:21.600 --> 1:48:23.600 It's it's hard to do that sometimes, especially as a 1:48:23.640 --> 1:48:27.400 seventeen year old. But I'm guessing now looking back on it. Yeah, 1:48:27.520 --> 1:48:29.519 I'm not saying they're happy you got bit by a bear, 1:48:29.680 --> 1:48:33.240 but right, like that's the kind of experience that like 1:48:33.360 --> 1:48:36.560 really can build a person. Yeah, I mean it's incredibly transformative, 1:48:36.680 --> 1:48:38.479 you know, for me and for those guys. I mean, 1:48:38.800 --> 1:48:42.479 you know, just just being a support person, uh, to 1:48:42.640 --> 1:48:47.360 a situation like that is, um, it sticks with you forever. 1:48:48.000 --> 1:48:50.160 I Mean, it's kind of like with search and rescue whatever. 1:48:50.200 --> 1:48:53.599 You're not the person that's um, you're not the victim, um, 1:48:53.800 --> 1:48:57.360 but you're they're making a difference in this situation that's 1:48:57.400 --> 1:49:01.679 just like incredibly unique and and very elemental, and that's 1:49:02.000 --> 1:49:05.519 very transformative. Right, I got nor question Are you glad 1:49:05.520 --> 1:49:10.400 you got attack by the bear? I don't know if 1:49:10.439 --> 1:49:13.120 i'd say I was glad I got attack by You're 1:49:13.160 --> 1:49:16.840 now glad you got attack by a bear? Forget the book? Yeah, 1:49:17.439 --> 1:49:19.240 I mean like we're trying to remove the book. But 1:49:20.600 --> 1:49:23.920 remove the book. I mean I would it. I'd be 1:49:24.000 --> 1:49:26.439 a different person if I hadn't been. Um. So in 1:49:26.520 --> 1:49:28.479 a lot of ways, I feel like it was um 1:49:28.800 --> 1:49:35.200 grounding and helped me to kind of, um, appreciate everything 1:49:35.280 --> 1:49:39.840 in life just that much more. Um. It's hard to say, like, yeah, 1:49:39.840 --> 1:49:44.720 I enjoy getting mulled by bear, but um, yeah, yeah. 1:49:45.120 --> 1:49:47.519 I mean we're a product of our experiences, right. You know, 1:49:47.920 --> 1:49:50.680 would I go back into that trip again? Absolutely? Um, 1:49:50.960 --> 1:49:55.320 Would I take precautions to change how that situation would 1:49:55.320 --> 1:50:01.000 have gone? Yes? So, UM, But I'm it's an experience 1:50:01.080 --> 1:50:05.880 that has been incredibly important to me and directional in 1:50:05.960 --> 1:50:09.720 my life. UM. So it's hard to think about that 1:50:09.920 --> 1:50:15.200 not being there. What you got. Um, I'm curious about 1:50:15.280 --> 1:50:18.439 the trauma of it all, um, and that there's there's 1:50:18.439 --> 1:50:20.640 a lot there. So we can make this short and 1:50:21.360 --> 1:50:24.920 wrap it up, but I'm curious about that and if um, 1:50:26.760 --> 1:50:29.840 you've kind of been if you define yourself as and 1:50:29.920 --> 1:50:32.680 are kind of defined by others as like the bear 1:50:32.720 --> 1:50:36.360 attack guy, right, like and if that has colored everything 1:50:36.479 --> 1:50:41.479 else afterwards, even though that was a singular and unique experience, 1:50:41.800 --> 1:50:47.000 right and it's super short experience. UM. Yeah, I mean 1:50:47.040 --> 1:50:50.400 that trauma took a little while to kind of um 1:50:51.000 --> 1:50:53.200 categorize in my brain and kind of put put where 1:50:53.240 --> 1:50:57.120 it needed to go. UM. While I was still out 1:50:57.160 --> 1:50:59.879 in the woods, you know, it was just like bears everywhere, 1:51:00.400 --> 1:51:04.120 not literally, but I was perceiving them everywhere. UM. And then, 1:51:04.200 --> 1:51:06.240 you know I talked earlier about one of my steps 1:51:06.360 --> 1:51:10.040 was to kind of get myself back into situations that 1:51:10.160 --> 1:51:15.600 would um help me overcome barriers that I was now experiencing. 1:51:16.080 --> 1:51:18.240 You know, going to zoos and actually seeing live grizzly 1:51:18.320 --> 1:51:21.200 bears was one of them. Um. Getting back out into 1:51:21.240 --> 1:51:24.000 the woods uh in a in a way that I 1:51:24.080 --> 1:51:26.680 had enough support around me that I could do that 1:51:26.880 --> 1:51:32.040 and go through that evolution of of fear to kind 1:51:32.080 --> 1:51:35.640 of having control of the situation everything. My family and 1:51:35.720 --> 1:51:39.040 friends were really important for that, UM. And that took 1:51:39.120 --> 1:51:42.080 several years of kind of easing back into it, and 1:51:42.280 --> 1:51:44.240 I looked like Rambo for the first couple of years 1:51:44.280 --> 1:51:46.320 going back to the boundary waters. It's like, why didn't 1:51:46.320 --> 1:51:52.280 need to tactical vest and the machete, so the club, 1:51:52.479 --> 1:51:56.439 I didn't carry club, but yet I had yeah right, yeah, 1:51:56.520 --> 1:51:59.920 like a spiked maze. Yeah. So you know, you can 1:52:00.000 --> 1:52:02.519 troll what you can and and I never wanted it 1:52:02.600 --> 1:52:04.200 to define me in the sense of like I can't 1:52:04.200 --> 1:52:06.719 go do these things anymore. So I was very intentional 1:52:06.720 --> 1:52:09.439 about going back out there and doing those things. Getting 1:52:09.479 --> 1:52:11.880 back in the race man, Yeah, exactly, get back up 1:52:11.920 --> 1:52:15.320 on the horse and um, you know, being comfortable with 1:52:15.400 --> 1:52:19.439 the fact that I might be uneasy or my experience 1:52:19.520 --> 1:52:22.160 might be different at this point, but um, you know, 1:52:22.479 --> 1:52:26.920 managing my risks appropriately and then getting back out there. Um, 1:52:27.360 --> 1:52:29.720 you know, when I I was seventeen, I went. I 1:52:29.840 --> 1:52:32.439 started my senior year of high school three weeks after 1:52:32.520 --> 1:52:35.600 I was attacked. Yeah, because you're writ you're seing your 1:52:35.600 --> 1:52:38.000 paper about Oh yeah I was in this summer. What 1:52:38.080 --> 1:52:45.840 am I going to do? Yeah exactly, So that Phil, 1:52:48.200 --> 1:52:50.680 I mean it sounds crazy and intense and I can't 1:52:50.720 --> 1:52:54.280 even comprehend it. Yeah, thanks a lot. I love it. 1:52:54.400 --> 1:52:57.800 I love it. How you enjoin your cameras pill it's 1:52:57.800 --> 1:52:59.439 a learning experience. I think it's going well though. I 1:52:59.439 --> 1:53:02.360 think we're gonna at this work nice. Yeah, what we're 1:53:02.400 --> 1:53:05.000 talking about there is Phil. Go ahead. I just gon 1:53:05.280 --> 1:53:08.200 had some more you know, bearing and canoe questions, But 1:53:08.280 --> 1:53:13.479 go ahead. Phil's filming where I don't know, we're gonna 1:53:13.520 --> 1:53:18.760 like start releasing highlight videos and whatnot. That's true. Yeah, 1:53:18.760 --> 1:53:20.760 there's a test run. You may or may not see 1:53:21.040 --> 1:53:23.519 some of this, but you will see things in the 1:53:23.560 --> 1:53:27.560 near future. That is the plan. It's let's fill the 1:53:27.600 --> 1:53:31.360 podcast engineer. We're gonna have to really like gussie ourselves 1:53:31.520 --> 1:53:36.080 up and pick our nose planning. I'm gonna change everything 1:53:36.080 --> 1:53:37.880 you start. You know, Larry King always said that so 1:53:37.880 --> 1:53:41.200 long as suspenders, suspenders, leaning forward, your elbows on the 1:53:41.280 --> 1:53:47.040 table some bis at different hours like that, Uh you didn't. 1:53:47.920 --> 1:53:50.080 You're close to finishing meeting and finish you're like what 1:53:50.280 --> 1:53:52.640 forty some miles right from where the rest of the 1:53:52.720 --> 1:53:55.360 crew ended up taking out at the point where I 1:53:55.400 --> 1:53:59.880 got Evack, well, when I got Evec yeah, closer like 1:54:00.000 --> 1:54:02.240 but I was trying to leave those details as like, uh, 1:54:02.840 --> 1:54:04.599 I don't want to do his whole damn book. Well, 1:54:04.680 --> 1:54:08.840 I skipped ahead right to the very very end. So 1:54:08.920 --> 1:54:10.880 you got to eve act, pursue your line of questioning, 1:54:11.520 --> 1:54:16.720 sustained whatever you say. You had to Uh, you had 1:54:16.760 --> 1:54:19.120 to bring a guy, a guy with you when you 1:54:19.200 --> 1:54:22.559 when you pulled out. UM. I know for a lot 1:54:22.600 --> 1:54:24.360 of people, like when you're on a big trip like 1:54:24.479 --> 1:54:26.439 that you set out to do as a as a 1:54:26.600 --> 1:54:30.439 beginning and end and if you don't finish, it's like 1:54:30.720 --> 1:54:33.680 naws at you. Yeah, so as a nawn at you, 1:54:33.840 --> 1:54:35.320 you guys are gonna have to go back and go 1:54:35.480 --> 1:54:39.040 do the whole six hundred miles again and finish her up. Yeah, 1:54:39.160 --> 1:54:42.800 summit fever, right, Yeah, Um, I want to go back. 1:54:42.840 --> 1:54:43.960 I don't know if I want to do the same 1:54:44.000 --> 1:54:48.240 trip exactly. Um, but there is kind of that sense 1:54:48.320 --> 1:54:51.960 of like, oh, you didn't quite finish the trip that 1:54:52.040 --> 1:54:54.200 you had set out to do, but you did the 1:54:54.280 --> 1:54:58.160 trip that that you were dealt um. So that's kind 1:54:58.160 --> 1:55:00.760 of part of the whole vibe of like coming to 1:55:00.960 --> 1:55:04.240 terms with um with this and really with any long 1:55:04.320 --> 1:55:06.720 expedition like that. You get back and it's like you 1:55:06.840 --> 1:55:10.000 have to recondition yourself to the world. Um, it's a 1:55:10.040 --> 1:55:14.800 hard transition. So yeah, somebody I'll go back. Good. Last question, 1:55:14.840 --> 1:55:17.360 I promised, that's some all the questions you want. Man 1:55:18.400 --> 1:55:21.640 twice and I forget the chronology, but twice, you guys 1:55:21.760 --> 1:55:26.720 lose a canoe? Correct, not on this trip, once on 1:55:26.800 --> 1:55:29.720 this trip, he wants on this trip. Yeah, like lost lost, 1:55:29.800 --> 1:55:32.880 But I thought you guys got it back one time. Well, 1:55:33.440 --> 1:55:36.600 so one time it's like slip it barely slid away. Yeah, 1:55:37.000 --> 1:55:38.760 is that the one you're referring to, right, But then 1:55:38.800 --> 1:55:44.480 another time you is actually lose a canoe and it's gone, gone, gone, 1:55:44.880 --> 1:55:47.360 like it's not coming back. You guys only have two 1:55:47.400 --> 1:55:50.440 at that point. Yeah, I'm just wondering, like what sort 1:55:50.480 --> 1:55:55.000 of like what's the protocol for beaching, tathering, putting. How 1:55:55.040 --> 1:55:59.160 does the canoe that you're so dependent upon get taken away? Yeah, 1:55:59.800 --> 1:56:01.920 well you did it. You were you were crippled up. 1:56:02.000 --> 1:56:05.040 You did a shitty job, yank get up on the beach, yeah, 1:56:05.200 --> 1:56:08.160 you know, and and that that environment is that you 1:56:08.280 --> 1:56:09.920 just you just pull it up on the beach with 1:56:10.040 --> 1:56:12.480 crippled or not, and you tip it upside down and 1:56:12.720 --> 1:56:15.320 that's it for the night. So our our protocol was 1:56:15.400 --> 1:56:16.760 to like pull it up out of the water and 1:56:16.840 --> 1:56:19.760 then weigh it down so that the wind didn't take it. Um. 1:56:20.000 --> 1:56:22.080 And what happened in our situation was we had like 1:56:22.200 --> 1:56:26.920 this century storm um that came up. I actually pulled 1:56:27.000 --> 1:56:29.200 up footage of it like a couple of years ago, 1:56:29.320 --> 1:56:31.280 from two thousand five, and it looks like a hurricane 1:56:31.440 --> 1:56:34.840 going across northern Canada, um. And it ended up the 1:56:34.920 --> 1:56:36.680 water level rose a lot and it ended up taking 1:56:36.680 --> 1:56:39.800 it away. UM. So basically the protocol for securing your 1:56:39.800 --> 1:56:42.640 canoes is just that secure your canoes. So uh, you know, 1:56:42.760 --> 1:56:44.360 next time, I'd probably drive a stake in the ground 1:56:44.440 --> 1:56:47.480 or something um, or just like bring them so far 1:56:47.640 --> 1:56:50.320 up from sure it's like we're sitting, you know, we 1:56:50.400 --> 1:56:52.640 got bigger things to deal with if the waters rise 1:56:52.720 --> 1:56:56.520 to this point. Um. But uh yeah, so that was 1:56:56.680 --> 1:56:58.520 that was hard. You guys were doing everything right. It 1:56:58.960 --> 1:57:02.520 was just such a circuit extreme circumstance. Yeah. I could 1:57:02.560 --> 1:57:06.680 not have foreseen it. Compounding factors, yeah, right, compounding factors. 1:57:06.720 --> 1:57:08.920 And and not to mention it was like super cold 1:57:08.960 --> 1:57:10.800 and stormy the night before, and so we're all just 1:57:10.960 --> 1:57:14.200 struggling and you know, dealing with the aftermath of a 1:57:14.240 --> 1:57:17.839 bear attack. And yeah, so that was that was painful, 1:57:18.200 --> 1:57:20.960 pretty incredible for a group of seventeen year old kids, 1:57:22.120 --> 1:57:25.000 so very learning experience. And give you guys a lot 1:57:25.040 --> 1:57:27.640 of props man for not hanging out with those girls 1:57:27.720 --> 1:57:30.240 longer too. I gotta I don't think I could have 1:57:31.120 --> 1:57:34.160 stuck to you that we're pretty much seventeen year old Yanni. Yeah, 1:57:34.160 --> 1:57:40.160 you guys were very mature, you know, Okay, Alex Messenger 1:57:41.360 --> 1:57:45.080 the title of the book, The twenty nine Day Surviving 1:57:45.160 --> 1:57:50.600 a Grizzly Attack in the Canadian Tundra. Alex, uh, thank you, 1:57:50.920 --> 1:57:53.080 thank you making the trip out. Yeah, thanks for telling 1:57:53.160 --> 1:57:56.880 us your tail. Yeah, thanks for having me. It was fun. 1:57:57.240 --> 1:57:57.920 Take care everybody,