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Speaker 1: All right, everybody, I know you're sitting home wineing and

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Speaker 1: crying about how you missed getting tickets for Meat Eater

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Speaker 1: off there and like you're just despondent, catatonic. What are

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Speaker 1: the kind of words you guys even know what catatonic means?

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Speaker 1: Super not happy because you missed me and every it's

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Speaker 1: so but it has but perk up, come out of

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Speaker 1: that catatonic stupor because there's still two venues left. Everything's

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Speaker 1: sold out, but we got still still two venues left.

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Speaker 1: April fifteen and April sixteen. Neighboring dates me cal Yanni,

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Speaker 1: Meat Eater off the Air, Holy Smokes, MASA Arts Center,

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Speaker 1: and Mace Arizona. Few Phoenix Market people or people who

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Speaker 1: can get there in City National Grove, Anaheim, California, like

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Speaker 1: the l A. You people, come on out, man, hurry

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Speaker 1: up and get them. Everything else is gone, but get

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Speaker 1: those see you me eat your podcast you shirtless, severely

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Speaker 1: folk bitten in my case, underwear listening podcast. You can't

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Speaker 1: predict anything presented by on X Hunt, creators of the

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Speaker 1: most comprehensive digital mapping system for hunters. Download the Hunt

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Speaker 1: app from the iTunes or Google play Store, nor where

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Speaker 1: you stand with on X you're starting, Johnnie, you're starting

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Speaker 1: the whole podcast. Yeah, because if you're gonna say the

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Speaker 1: first thing, there's something I think you should say. Oh,

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Speaker 1: but then going on welcome everybody, No, no, no, you

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Speaker 1: should say, um, so Alex Messenger, you got attacked by

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Speaker 1: a grizzly bear, and then going to whatever you're gonna

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Speaker 1: talk about, all right, because that's titillating, very that's titillating,

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Speaker 1: and people want to hear all about that. Have you

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Speaker 1: always been fond of that word? Did you feel like

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Speaker 1: just recently it's like re entered your vocabulary, titting what

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Speaker 1: I like about? But no, it only recently. I've always

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Speaker 1: been fond of it. I've just been trying to use

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Speaker 1: it more. Um, there's a Tom Robbins character named Marks Marvelous,

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Speaker 1: and uh, he always liked that name because people loathe

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Speaker 1: the marks Karl Marx and real men never use the

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Speaker 1: word marvelous, and so it was sort of an attack

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Speaker 1: on language and stereotypes about language. So I feel like, um,

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Speaker 1: the word titilating is unexpected. It is that like if

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Speaker 1: I said red or awesome or bitching, people don't care

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Speaker 1: about that red story no one's gonna listen a titilating story.

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Speaker 1: You'll fill over there. He looks half asleep, can't be

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Speaker 1: he's fired right up now. Yeah, you hear that word

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Speaker 1: and they turn the volume now so they know it's

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Speaker 1: a titilating story about white water and a bear attack.

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Speaker 1: That's right, be bite. But how do we get to

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Speaker 1: that well once? I mean, just now, I want to

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Speaker 1: do in. I want to do him justice as an author.

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Speaker 1: Alex Messenger, author of the twenty ninth Day Surviving a

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Speaker 1: Grizzly Attack in the Canadian Tundra. But first, Yanni on

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Speaker 1: Walleye Alex now lives in Duluth, correct, that's right. And

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Speaker 1: I was telling him that we were just recently on fishing.

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Speaker 1: Walleye on the lax Yes, if I caught some, Walley

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Speaker 1: said yes. But I was more just as interested in

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Speaker 1: catching while I I was interested in asking everybody why

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Speaker 1: the obsession with Wally? Why do you think it is?

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I think people appreciate the flavor and

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Speaker 1: uh that it's a beautiful fish and it's pretty easy

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Speaker 1: to filet. That's a great way. That's a great thing

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Speaker 1: to say. Yeah, that's yeah, that's a good way to

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Speaker 1: sell a fish monk fish or no, it's not like

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Speaker 1: a shovel nose sturgeon. All the people I've asked this

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Speaker 1: question to you the first person, I think that that

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Speaker 1: has added that point that it's easy to filet. I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna add that to everything I talk about now. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you look at a northern it's like, No, I always

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Speaker 1: talk about things that are hard to clean. Yeah, but

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Speaker 1: no one ever praises, no one ever celebrates things that

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Speaker 1: are easy to clean. I mean that's utilitarian. It's especially

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Speaker 1: a lot of them. You got to be a writer.

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Speaker 1: You're not that old though, Oh you are? Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: got a baby face. No, I just did some rough math.

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Speaker 1: Read your book. I did some rough math, and I

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Speaker 1: had you pegged at twenty seven. Yeah, I don't know why,

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Speaker 1: oh five seventeen, Okay, later ways the way, Oh you're

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Speaker 1: good on Wally. Um, So you're from duluthep uh born

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Speaker 1: and raised U born and raised in the Twin Cities suburbs.

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Speaker 1: My wife's from Duluth. So that's what brought me there.

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Speaker 1: So I was living up in Eally, Minnesota before um

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Speaker 1: moving down to Duluth. Oh man, my old man loved

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Speaker 1: Eli because before my time, my man was they would

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Speaker 1: do big, long canoe trips. And I still have this,

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Speaker 1: I still have I think I want to get framed.

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Speaker 1: I have like his Duluth pack. Yeah, yeah, that says

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Speaker 1: some canoe country outfitters on it stenciled on there, like

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Speaker 1: the big leave. I had it rebuilt recently. I want

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Speaker 1: to get it put in a glass frame it so

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna hang ou on my wall or just keep

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Speaker 1: using it. I moved to Duluth for an afternoon one

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Speaker 1: time when I um moved. Well here here's the deal man.

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Speaker 1: What was weird about it is when I got out

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Speaker 1: of graduate school, I intended to take all the things

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Speaker 1: I learned about UM, Like I started writing like in

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Speaker 1: the West, right, and there's this very intense sort of

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Speaker 1: sense of place in the West, and and I wanted

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Speaker 1: to take that way of looking at the world and

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Speaker 1: apply it to the Great Lakes. And so soon as

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Speaker 1: I finished graduate, squad left because I was gonna go

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Speaker 1: write a book about the Great Lakes. Um and my

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Speaker 1: dad had just died, So I took his truck and

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Speaker 1: I started doing all my research. And uh, I had

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Speaker 1: a girlfriend at the time, and we're gonna move to.

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Speaker 1: I was like, I thought, like, what better place to

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Speaker 1: write about? The Great Lakes and Duluth like you kind

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Speaker 1: of just nudged right out in it, you know. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there's some great stories up there. So I thought, maybe

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Speaker 1: we'll just rand a place for six months here and

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Speaker 1: then I'll move and to the kind of the other

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Speaker 1: end of the lakes and live there. And I remember

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Speaker 1: we were sitting in a bar, um looking at We're

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Speaker 1: sitting in a bar looking at apartments and cottages for

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Speaker 1: rent and whatnot. And my girlfriend got an email that

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Speaker 1: she had uh gotten accepted into this writing fellowship awesome

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Speaker 1: that she had to go to. And so that's just

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Speaker 1: Aliso and everything kind of like went an upheaval and

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Speaker 1: then wasn't long later I changed my mind. Anyway, I

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Speaker 1: moved back out west, Yeah, but almost moved there. That's

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Speaker 1: crazy and amazing how life just kind of switches. I

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Speaker 1: knew these um we'll go down to this, we'll go

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Speaker 1: down to your story in a minute. But it's cold

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Speaker 1: as ship, right because I knew these girls. I knew

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Speaker 1: these girls I met down in Key West that were

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Speaker 1: telling me that they were students at um D and

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Speaker 1: they were telling me one time they realized that they

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Speaker 1: went a month without going outside. Yeah, because you can

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Speaker 1: take tunnels everywhere. Yeah, that campus is just like super

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Speaker 1: connected and really easy to get lost in because of

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Speaker 1: you know, these buildings weren't originally made for it, so

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Speaker 1: they're all just like kind of bolted together. But yeah,

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Speaker 1: you don't need to go outside. You can spend a

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Speaker 1: month in your bedroom slippers only from class and the

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Speaker 1: cafeteria and stuff like that. Yep, exactly taking walks for exercise. Uh,

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Speaker 1: what do you do, Like, what's your main thing you

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Speaker 1: do for a living? Your writer? Uh So my day

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Speaker 1: job is marketing for a hospital in town there called St. Luke's.

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Speaker 1: So um. I started that about a year ago. Before that,

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Speaker 1: I was doing marketing for an outdoor company called Frost

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Speaker 1: River who makes traditional canoe packs kind of like the

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Speaker 1: one You're dead had um. And uh yeah, so I've

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Speaker 1: been to a marketing for a long time and the

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Speaker 1: writing and photograph fe sidework, which is really vocationally exciting

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Speaker 1: for me. You got a a scar on your legs

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Speaker 1: more the bear guy I do. Yeah, drop your drawers

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Speaker 1: and show us. It's kind of a compromising old it's

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Speaker 1: it's in like a bad spot right. Oh, it's real high. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's right right at the hip joint. So uh, it's

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Speaker 1: like dropped drop trout and then lift up the boxers

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Speaker 1: and then you can see it. So I don't show

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Speaker 1: it plant company. No, you don't just walk around and

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Speaker 1: walk into bars and and be what happened? Yeah, you

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Speaker 1: get kicked out that way. Tell tell people about them.

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Speaker 1: You're on a six hundred mile long canoe trip. It's right,

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Speaker 1: lay that out. Yeah, So like what is the trip?

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Speaker 1: The trip seventeen okay, yeah, let's see seventeen years old.

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Speaker 1: Seventeen years old and you embark with some other kids

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Speaker 1: on a six hundred mile long paddle. Yep. Yeah, this

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Speaker 1: is the it's the pinnacle trip for the camp that

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Speaker 1: we were going through. Um what yeah, you know what

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Speaker 1: explained this camp? Yeah? So Camp Mino gin Um it's

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Speaker 1: a wilderness trip based camp. It's started in I think

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Speaker 1: um up in northern Minnesota, north of Grand Moray. It's

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Speaker 1: like literally a few miles south of the Canadian border,

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Speaker 1: right next to the boundary waters. UM. So they set

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Speaker 1: up with the mission of um taking kids out for

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Speaker 1: transformational experiences in a wilderness setting. But not bad kids. No, no,

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Speaker 1: not like not like those um more yeah, oriented towards

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Speaker 1: kids who have gotten in trouble or have chemical issues

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Speaker 1: and things like that. You know, this is this is

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Speaker 1: um kids that just want to have an adventure um

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Speaker 1: and see the wild places. So like a regular summer camp,

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Speaker 1: but just bumped up just a little higher notch of adventure.

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Speaker 1: Yeah exactly. You know, it's it's not like a residential

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Speaker 1: camp where you're getting up, you're eating in the cafeteria.

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Speaker 1: You're going and do an archery and catching frogs and

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Speaker 1: uh doing arts and crafts and stuff, which isn't to

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Speaker 1: knock that at all. That's a really fun experience, but

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Speaker 1: this is just different from that. UM. So you get

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Speaker 1: to camp and you get packed out and there you know,

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Speaker 1: they kind of act like an outfitter in that sense. Um.

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Speaker 1: I thought one of the most interesting things about the

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Speaker 1: camp was that you don't take a car to base

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Speaker 1: camp or two headquarters. Yeah. Yeah. So it's this amazing

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Speaker 1: spot um like literally right on the edge of the

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Speaker 1: boundary waters. You have to go across the lake to

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Speaker 1: get to it, and there's like an old ATV trail

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Speaker 1: that you can take around the lake to get there.

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Speaker 1: But um, camp itself is just kind of out there,

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Speaker 1: so you feel like you're I mean, you really are

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Speaker 1: in the wilderness even when you're at base camp. Is

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Speaker 1: it mostly is it like like blue collar kids are

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Speaker 1: mostly wealthy kids. Uh, it's it's a mixture, um, you know,

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Speaker 1: and that's super intentional to um. There's like scholarship programs

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Speaker 1: for if you can't afford the fees and scholarship. Yeah. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: so I actually was recipient of a partial scholarship for

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Speaker 1: this longer trip. You can also be like a work

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Speaker 1: camper where you're at camp as like a residential camper

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Speaker 1: and you're helping out around camp with like chores and whatever,

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Speaker 1: and you know, having a lot of friends, a lot

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Speaker 1: of fun with friends and kids rage and UM, that's

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Speaker 1: a really cool experience too. Um. But yeah, you know,

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Speaker 1: it's a it's a wide range of folks that go there.

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Speaker 1: But sessions start with like really short kind of intro um.

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Speaker 1: I think they even have a shorter session now that's

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Speaker 1: like five days or something. Um, but at the time,

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Speaker 1: the shortest session was eight days. And my parents were like,

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Speaker 1: we're going on this trip, and like, okay, I would

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Speaker 1: go into the boundary waters uh for a long time

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Speaker 1: with my family. But my parents were had heard great

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Speaker 1: things and they kind of sent me on that first

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Speaker 1: trip to you just go up and do a trip. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I got you. Yeah. So it's now like you spend

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Speaker 1: your summer there, No, no go and do a canoe trip. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: in the going to a canoe trip. Um. There's also

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Speaker 1: like backpacking trips, um climbing trips, things like that. Um.

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Speaker 1: So it's just amazing experiences and you know, you're with

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Speaker 1: your contemporaries and you're also with guides who are you know,

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Speaker 1: really well versed in what you're doing. And we're not

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Speaker 1: old not old, No, I mean they're you know, um

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Speaker 1: they're adults. Uh, but they're not like middle aged. Were

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Speaker 1: your parents adventures they were? Yeah? Maybe still, well they're

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Speaker 1: getting they're they're both retired, so the adventure, the type

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Speaker 1: of adventure has changed a little bit. But um, they're

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Speaker 1: both in anthropology. Um. So my dad was a professor

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Speaker 1: of anthropology at Hammond University. Um the whole time I

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Speaker 1: was growing up. My mom um was an adjunct professor

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Speaker 1: and worked in administration and stuff. And they both worked

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Speaker 1: together and they teach study abroad trips um every January,

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Speaker 1: so we'd go in two of these ancient sites and Mexico. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so I was climbing up temples in Mexico when I

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Speaker 1: was three with them for at before that, they did

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Speaker 1: field work like in um Guatemal, I think, and other

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Speaker 1: Central American companies or countries where they're setting up with

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Speaker 1: hammocks in the jungle and you gotta check your boots

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Speaker 1: for spiders and your archaeological pits for snakes and stuff,

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Speaker 1: and breaking up machete fights between the workers and whatever.

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Speaker 1: So they definitely, uh brought a sense of adventure to

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Speaker 1: bring it up myself and my sister. So you know,

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Speaker 1: it wasn't like totally out of the blue that they

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Speaker 1: were like, hey, you should go on this trip, but

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Speaker 1: you know, a hugely important decision for them to to

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Speaker 1: send me there because um, you know, like I said,

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Speaker 1: we've gone camping before, but going camping with this like

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Speaker 1: organized group and and seeing how you can move and

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Speaker 1: do all this stuff really efficiently, um was just kind

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Speaker 1: of a paradigm shift for me because up in the

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Speaker 1: boundary waters, you measure how far you have to carry

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Speaker 1: your gear between lakes um in rods which is like

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Speaker 1: seventeen and a half feet. Yeah, that's the thing. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So it's like, oh, how long is that party? Oh

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Speaker 1: it's five rods, that's super short, or it's three rods,

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Speaker 1: which is a mile. Um and with my family it

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Speaker 1: was like a hundred and fifty rods. That's like impossible.

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Speaker 1: Did you learn how to think in rods? Oh? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: You know. When I started hanging out in Southeast Alaska,

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Speaker 1: we have a fish act there. Everybody does everything in

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Speaker 1: fathoms and nice first all conversations, I would need to

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Speaker 1: like be running math, right, but after whatever, I know, years, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I gotta do with the opposite. Now, let's see how

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Speaker 1: many fathom? Yeah? Like I think like I think in

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Speaker 1: fathoms only when I'm up there. When I'm up there,

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Speaker 1: I think in fathoms. And someone says like feet, I

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Speaker 1: gotta go like hold I'm at and go the other

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Speaker 1: direction because I just conceptualize, right, I've learned to conceptualize

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Speaker 1: in fathoms. Tell me again, how many feet fathom? Six

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Speaker 1: ft six? I wonder if that's where they're saying, like,

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Speaker 1: you can't fathom something that comes from? Uh you know,

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Speaker 1: do you know where where the measurement the rod comes from.

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Speaker 1: Oh I should know it's uh, this is I don't

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Speaker 1: believe this is where it came from. But it's the

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Speaker 1: length of an old Minnesota guide canoe. You know, Mark Twain.

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Speaker 1: I think it's related to surveying though originally say you

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Speaker 1: know the author, Mark Twain, Samuel Clemens, you know his

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Speaker 1: pen name, like Mark Twain is his pen name. His

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Speaker 1: given name is Samuel Clemens. Mark Twain is that they

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Speaker 1: would and the old steamboats that have a dude up

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Speaker 1: front with a rope that had knots tied in an

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Speaker 1: increments there's six ft increments. Ny, that's a good little

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Speaker 1: project for you to work on right now. Um, yeah,

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Speaker 1: we've done this one before time. And the riverboat captain's

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Speaker 1: got dude up front with a weight on a rope

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Speaker 1: with knots, and he and the dudes yelling out what

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Speaker 1: not depth? And Mark Twain second second, not is safe passage?

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Speaker 1: Good water? So when you're a riverboat, calf you like

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Speaker 1: that dude up front, were going, Mark Twain, Mark Twain,

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Speaker 1: that means good ship and sing? Yeah. So you portage

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Speaker 1: and rods, yeah, see portage and rods and and uh

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Speaker 1: my perception of what was like achievable was totally different

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Speaker 1: once I went on that first trip with camp and uh,

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Speaker 1: I just I was hooked right after that. What's a

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Speaker 1: long ass portage in your mind? Don't give it to

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Speaker 1: me in rods, fathoms, uh, miles yards, whatever the hell

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Speaker 1: you want to do? Yeah, well, uh, I mean when

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Speaker 1: you get a standard but long ass portage, a standard

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Speaker 1: but long. I'm a fan. I enjoy portaging, which is uh,

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Speaker 1: you know some some people can't understand that. But um,

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Speaker 1: between like one and two miles is like, this is good, Okay,

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Speaker 1: I enjoy that. You know, you get into the mode

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Speaker 1: and um you get to the end and you're just

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Speaker 1: super stoked to be ready to put your boat down

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Speaker 1: because I want to bump into this six hundred mile journey.

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Speaker 1: So you did a number of trips over the years. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's sort of the pinnacle. Yep. The hell week sure

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Speaker 1: is the how long I take you guys to go

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Speaker 1: six hundred miles? Or how long should it take to

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Speaker 1: go six This is a forty two day session, um

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Speaker 1: so uh A couple of days less than that was

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Speaker 1: was you know, end to end kind of what the

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Speaker 1: goal was? Yeah, and like and The reason we're bringing

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Speaker 1: up porridges because this trip is it's it's you got

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Speaker 1: just on a river for six hundred miles, right, You're

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Speaker 1: bumping from system to system. So you like get on

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Speaker 1: a lake, the lake flows into your river. You go

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Speaker 1: to another lake, that lake that lakes frozen, you drag.

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Speaker 1: You should across the ice. Then you like drag. Then

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Speaker 1: you portage over into some whole other river system. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and then move through that network, right, and it's and

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Speaker 1: then you always need to go round rapids and everything. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So our route was amazing. I mean we started out

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Speaker 1: in the Northwest Territories UM on the Dublant River and

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Speaker 1: made our way into nunavit Um and then eventually got

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Speaker 1: off the Dublant and d of did this um not

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Speaker 1: exactly height of land, but this sort of traverse into

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Speaker 1: another river system, the coon Walk Um, and made our

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Speaker 1: way down that and then ended up on the Kazan.

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Speaker 1: And so it was a really unique route. UM that

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Speaker 1: was a combination of rivers that Camp and other people

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Speaker 1: had done, but we we hadn't seen another trip that

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Speaker 1: had actually taken this route in this traverse, so we're

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Speaker 1: kind of felt like we were breaking trail and you guys,

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Speaker 1: you guys kind of architected your own journey. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, you know, the the Six of Us, which

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Speaker 1: includes the guide, you know, confabd about you know what

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Speaker 1: we wanted to have the trip b and and discussed

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Speaker 1: a couple of different options and um, this one. You know,

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Speaker 1: in addition to having that traverse and these different river

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Speaker 1: systems which were very different in terms of the field. Um,

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Speaker 1: it also went from the tiger forest, which is like

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Speaker 1: scrub trees. Um. So the largest biome in the world. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was the tiger Yeah. And it's just amazing. Uh.

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Speaker 1: It's kind of like everything is in miniature, but they're

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Speaker 1: still trees and everything. Um, and they're black spruce, poplar,

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Speaker 1: yep and shrubs. And when you're like when you roll

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Speaker 1: in like Siberia and Russia, Yeah, and then Canada, I

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Speaker 1: think it's Yeah, I've read multiple times the largest biome

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Speaker 1: on the planet, like the largest like habitat type. Yeah

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Speaker 1: that exists. Yeah, and it's it's like the threshold between

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Speaker 1: I don't know what's south of that as far as

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Speaker 1: biomas go, but it's kind of the next step north

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Speaker 1: is the tundra. So it's like right on the edge. UM,

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Speaker 1: tell people about um sort of your perception of what

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Speaker 1: it would be like to like travel across into the

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Speaker 1: tree line. You know, when you look at old maps,

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Speaker 1: you'll see on old maps they use, you'll see this

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Speaker 1: line here and there it'll say the limit of wooded country.

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Speaker 1: Oh nice and old maps. But talk about like what,

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Speaker 1: like what that transition looked like. So do your expectation

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Speaker 1: of what that would be like and what it was like? Like? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so I in my mind, you know, we're discussing this

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Speaker 1: um looking over maps and everything, and we didn't have

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Speaker 1: that description. It was kind of like the green zone

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Speaker 1: turned into the whatever, you know, white zone. Uh. And

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Speaker 1: that was right across the middle of Dublant Lake, which

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Speaker 1: is the largest lake in ninevet Um. And I just

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Speaker 1: imagine kind of pushing off from shore on Dublant and

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Speaker 1: paddling across the lake, which in my mind was we

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Speaker 1: couldn't see either shore. You know, you never do that.

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Speaker 1: You never paddle in the middle of the lake where

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Speaker 1: you can't see shore. It's really big. Yeah, isn't it

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Speaker 1: intimidating to get out? Like why don't like you wouldn't

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Speaker 1: do that? You wouldn't go in the middle of the

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Speaker 1: lake because if a storm came up or whatever. You've

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Speaker 1: been in a pretty bad situation. But that big, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean you could probably see a sliver of it.

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Speaker 1: But in my mind's eye, I was like, we're gonna

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Speaker 1: be paddling, we won't see shore, it's gonna be foggy,

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Speaker 1: We're gonna push off. There's gonna be trees. We'll get

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Speaker 1: to the other side, completely understand. Yeah, So in my

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Speaker 1: mind's eye, that's what it was gonna be, is like

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Speaker 1: you know, a switch flipping, like trees, no trees, And

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Speaker 1: in reality, it was just kind of like all the

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Speaker 1: trees just kept getting smaller and smaller and fewer and

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Speaker 1: farther between until you kind of don't even realize you're

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Speaker 1: in this place that just doesn't have any trees, and

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Speaker 1: the shrubs are like hidden in little hollows and stuff.

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Speaker 1: There's just like very very little vegetation that grows of

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Speaker 1: any height at all. We've experienced that on the Dalton Highway.

385
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Speaker 1: You've crossed that a number of the tree line a

386
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Speaker 1: number of times, and it's like a gradual petering out

387
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Speaker 1: like just like just like you described it, just everything

388
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Speaker 1: just sort of slows down and then there's no trees

389
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Speaker 1: and I think one point we're like, holy sh it,

390
00:21:47,960 --> 00:21:53,280
Speaker 1: there's no trees and sign right next to like the

391
00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:59,600
Speaker 1: last black spruce, and they it was like there's a

392
00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:02,119
Speaker 1: really yeah, I mean the last Braxts boots you can

393
00:22:02,119 --> 00:22:04,000
Speaker 1: see from that spot. There's a really good book about

394
00:22:04,280 --> 00:22:09,480
Speaker 1: um the Natural History of Alaska. And you know when

395
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Speaker 1: you see like when you're going across the tree line

396
00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:13,879
Speaker 1: the limited wooded country and then you see like some

397
00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:16,720
Speaker 1: tree that's like the from whatever your perspective is at

398
00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:20,440
Speaker 1: a given time, it looks like the last one. It's

399
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Speaker 1: tempting to imagine it as like a pioneer, Yeah, whose

400
00:22:25,320 --> 00:22:29,000
Speaker 1: seed like blue up there? Yeah, But in this book

401
00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:31,920
Speaker 1: it explains that what you're typically looking at our remnants, Yeah,

402
00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:34,320
Speaker 1: it's the last one. It's the last one left, not

403
00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:36,160
Speaker 1: the first. It's not the first one there, you're looking

404
00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:39,080
Speaker 1: at the last one left, and that you're still seeing

405
00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:41,120
Speaker 1: the effects of the end of the ice age right

406
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Speaker 1: of that of that line moving. Yeah, it's wild, and

407
00:22:46,680 --> 00:22:49,120
Speaker 1: I mean the remnants of the ice age up there

408
00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:52,440
Speaker 1: just so tangible in a way that's totally different from

409
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Speaker 1: any other place I've been down here, like you know,

410
00:22:55,880 --> 00:22:57,760
Speaker 1: you see stuff and you have to like think about, oh,

411
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Speaker 1: like that boulder was dropped by the last ice age.

412
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Speaker 1: But up there there's these things called um eskers, which

413
00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:09,359
Speaker 1: are remnants of old glacial rivers, so that all the

414
00:23:09,440 --> 00:23:13,679
Speaker 1: sediment would be, you know, in in the ice at

415
00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:15,800
Speaker 1: the bottom of this glacial river, and then when the

416
00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:19,920
Speaker 1: uh glaciers recede, that sediment drops down and it's the

417
00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:21,720
Speaker 1: river bottom. But now it's a ridge that makes a

418
00:23:21,840 --> 00:23:26,160
Speaker 1: raised sidewalk, often flat, often flat, awesome to portage on, great,

419
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Speaker 1: great traveling, hard to portage up, hard to get on top,

420
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Speaker 1: but then smooth. So how many people you got with us?

421
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Speaker 1: How many people you get with you on the trip?

422
00:23:35,720 --> 00:23:38,960
Speaker 1: There were six of us, two three canoes, three canoes,

423
00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:42,399
Speaker 1: and you got one like, uh, like I don't know

424
00:23:42,560 --> 00:23:45,480
Speaker 1: a guide counselor yep, howlds that guy? So he was

425
00:23:45,520 --> 00:23:47,800
Speaker 1: in his mid twenties because in the pictures he looks

426
00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:50,440
Speaker 1: young and we all look you yeah you do, but

427
00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:52,080
Speaker 1: it looks like it. He looked like there's a guy.

428
00:23:52,160 --> 00:23:55,439
Speaker 1: So he's in his mid twenties. Yeah, yeah, lots of experience. Um,

429
00:23:55,520 --> 00:23:59,480
Speaker 1: he was pretty experienced. Wo yeah, yeah, he yep. We

430
00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:02,800
Speaker 1: all the of Um we at the end of each

431
00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:04,520
Speaker 1: trip with camp, we get a little we tie a

432
00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:07,240
Speaker 1: little bracelet for each other. Um that's kind of too

433
00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:11,840
Speaker 1: commemorate the trip. And um, you're theoretically gonna wear it,

434
00:24:11,960 --> 00:24:13,879
Speaker 1: you know, uh as long as you can kind of

435
00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:17,280
Speaker 1: a reminder of everything you learned. And his forearm was

436
00:24:17,359 --> 00:24:19,960
Speaker 1: just like covered in it. I noticed that one of

437
00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:24,960
Speaker 1: the pictures. I was wondering if he had an injury.

438
00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:27,960
Speaker 1: I saw it. No, those are each one of those

439
00:24:28,119 --> 00:24:32,200
Speaker 1: is a trip that he went on or guided. Um. Yeah.

440
00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:35,520
Speaker 1: So and at one point in time, this being like

441
00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:37,960
Speaker 1: the Pinnacle Trip. Yeah, at one point time. This is

442
00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:42,000
Speaker 1: what's kind of ironic is they used to run the

443
00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:47,920
Speaker 1: Pinnacle trip, yeah, to the East, but quit doing it

444
00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:52,560
Speaker 1: because of fears of polar bears. Right so, but no

445
00:24:52,640 --> 00:24:54,520
Speaker 1: one ever got hit by a polar bear. Right. No,

446
00:24:55,240 --> 00:24:57,760
Speaker 1: there were some some near misses that you know, they

447
00:24:58,359 --> 00:25:00,159
Speaker 1: paid attention to, and we're like, all right, you know,

448
00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:03,400
Speaker 1: polar bears are uh, well, for one thing, polar bears

449
00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:08,400
Speaker 1: will stock humans. Um. And that's a level of creepy

450
00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:12,800
Speaker 1: that is, you know, if you're going for for a

451
00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:15,520
Speaker 1: canoe adventure and stuff. You know, it's kind of something

452
00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:17,920
Speaker 1: you want to not have as part of your trip.

453
00:25:18,520 --> 00:25:21,119
Speaker 1: I'll be worrying about a polar bear that's like following

454
00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:25,400
Speaker 1: you from camp to camp and stuff like that. No, uh,

455
00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:27,119
Speaker 1: I never have, and I would like to you. And

456
00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:29,120
Speaker 1: a friend of mine, a taskm exposure to him, talks

457
00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:32,600
Speaker 1: about just the creepiness of them following you around. Yeah.

458
00:25:32,960 --> 00:25:36,720
Speaker 1: I can't imagine. I mean, it just be hard to sleep.

459
00:25:36,840 --> 00:25:41,680
Speaker 1: And so they moved it over into grizzly country. Yeah, yep.

460
00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:46,320
Speaker 1: And what are your as you're on this long trip? Yeah,

461
00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:50,520
Speaker 1: reminder me how many days forty two days? When you're

462
00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:53,440
Speaker 1: on this long trip, what are your conversations and what

463
00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:56,960
Speaker 1: are your what is your awareness about that? Like, oh,

464
00:25:57,119 --> 00:25:58,960
Speaker 1: there's grizzlies, you know what I mean, because I think that,

465
00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:02,880
Speaker 1: like like I found life. It's like, um, I feel

466
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:04,760
Speaker 1: like you have all the things that you think are

467
00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:08,000
Speaker 1: a problem. Yeah, you know, you're like aware of like

468
00:26:08,119 --> 00:26:11,080
Speaker 1: these are the problems. Yeah, but then the problems are

469
00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:17,600
Speaker 1: always something else, right oftentimes, Yeah, like you get blindsided

470
00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:21,399
Speaker 1: by the actual things right right, Like you think, like

471
00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:23,800
Speaker 1: you gotta clean your garage and that's a real problem.

472
00:26:23,840 --> 00:26:25,960
Speaker 1: But then like your kid is lyme disease and you're like, wow,

473
00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:28,440
Speaker 1: it wasn't you know, it wasn't on my radar like

474
00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:31,399
Speaker 1: you always. But here you are like presumably you're like,

475
00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:35,440
Speaker 1: oh and there's like grizzlies and that's a problem, a

476
00:26:35,960 --> 00:26:38,920
Speaker 1: thing of concern. Yeah, something to be aware of. Um.

477
00:26:39,160 --> 00:26:40,560
Speaker 1: So yeah, I mean we were aware of it before

478
00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:44,439
Speaker 1: we left UM camp in Northern Minnesota. You know, we did, uh,

479
00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:48,480
Speaker 1: we did training at camp on what you're supposed to do,

480
00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:52,520
Speaker 1: you know, sitting around talking about we had bear spray

481
00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:55,960
Speaker 1: pepper spray walking through you know, how to use that

482
00:26:56,480 --> 00:27:00,040
Speaker 1: using the practice cans. Uh not at that point with

483
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:03,600
Speaker 1: the inactive ingredients. No, No, Um, we did. We were

484
00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:07,439
Speaker 1: you know, using the cans and kind of going through

485
00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:10,280
Speaker 1: the motions and everything. Um. But everything about the plunger

486
00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:15,960
Speaker 1: press so um. But that training look like what was

487
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:17,560
Speaker 1: the training, Like here's the thing and here's how to

488
00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:20,879
Speaker 1: use it. Yeah. And then I mean it wasn't like

489
00:27:21,280 --> 00:27:23,240
Speaker 1: thirty seconds. You know, we spent some time on it,

490
00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:26,159
Speaker 1: um to the point where when we were done, I

491
00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:30,560
Speaker 1: felt very comfortable with how to use it. Um. But

492
00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:33,600
Speaker 1: you still just left in du tent. Yeah. Yeah, I

493
00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:38,480
Speaker 1: should have carried it. Yeah yeah, um yeah, you have

494
00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:39,960
Speaker 1: to have it on you in order to be able

495
00:27:39,960 --> 00:27:42,320
Speaker 1: to use it. So so you guys like took it seriously,

496
00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:46,000
Speaker 1: but not that seriously. So yeah, right, we we had it.

497
00:27:46,480 --> 00:27:48,439
Speaker 1: We we did that training, we did other training as

498
00:27:48,480 --> 00:27:51,159
Speaker 1: far as like here's what you do in general. Um,

499
00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:53,920
Speaker 1: you know when you see it and then, um, we've

500
00:27:53,960 --> 00:27:56,880
Speaker 1: been told that it was really really weird to even

501
00:27:56,960 --> 00:27:59,760
Speaker 1: see one up there and you can see forever. You know,

502
00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:01,720
Speaker 1: they no trees, you're up on high points a lot,

503
00:28:01,880 --> 00:28:04,840
Speaker 1: and you can see just everywhere. Um, So we kind

504
00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:06,560
Speaker 1: of went into it with like they're there, but they're

505
00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:09,520
Speaker 1: not like prevalent. Yeah, and they're a way different critter

506
00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:12,639
Speaker 1: than the coastal ones. Oh yeah, just wait, like just

507
00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:15,680
Speaker 1: like yeah, you just go forever and there's one way

508
00:28:15,760 --> 00:28:19,760
Speaker 1: off in the distance off towns are scared shitless of people. Yeah,

509
00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:23,600
Speaker 1: like I'm just going there. They're not acclimated into all

510
00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:26,000
Speaker 1: the people. They see it and they're like that's whatever

511
00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:29,240
Speaker 1: that is is not good. Yeah, exactly, there's a more

512
00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:34,719
Speaker 1: kind of just a little more um, a little kind

513
00:28:34,800 --> 00:28:36,399
Speaker 1: more wigged out all the time, you know, I mean

514
00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:39,800
Speaker 1: just kind of a cage or sort of yeah. Yeah,

515
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:41,720
Speaker 1: and they're you know, they don't have like salmon streams

516
00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:43,800
Speaker 1: where they're just picking dinner out and whatever. They're they're

517
00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:46,600
Speaker 1: pretty nomadic. They have a pretty wide range, which I

518
00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:50,680
Speaker 1: understand is more wide than like a coastal grizzly. Yeah,

519
00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:54,480
Speaker 1: extremely low population densities right where one of these things

520
00:28:54,600 --> 00:28:57,320
Speaker 1: might have one of these bears up in these areas,

521
00:28:57,400 --> 00:29:01,800
Speaker 1: he might have a hundred square mile home range. Yeah, yeah,

522
00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:05,680
Speaker 1: or bigger maybe. I mean, I have to I have

523
00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:08,480
Speaker 1: to look at the biology of it, but it's a

524
00:29:08,600 --> 00:29:11,880
Speaker 1: pretty wide range that they go. Um. But in addition

525
00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:13,320
Speaker 1: to the bear spray and just kind of like the

526
00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:17,000
Speaker 1: other protocols, we had um bear poppers, which are these

527
00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:20,040
Speaker 1: noisemaking devices that you shoot with a like a bolt

528
00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:22,800
Speaker 1: action little pen and then it fires off this thing

529
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:25,120
Speaker 1: and it goes just goes boom and it's just a

530
00:29:25,240 --> 00:29:29,040
Speaker 1: noise deterrent. Did you experiment with those? No, that was

531
00:29:29,240 --> 00:29:31,040
Speaker 1: that was like, here's how you use it, but you

532
00:29:31,080 --> 00:29:33,360
Speaker 1: guys shouldn't use this, Like that's that's more something that

533
00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:36,400
Speaker 1: the guy should use. If that comes up. You don't

534
00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:37,719
Speaker 1: know what they want to ask about me, And as

535
00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:43,760
Speaker 1: I asked about it now, the films like yes, the

536
00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:47,760
Speaker 1: girls group we mispronounced, we mispronounced, the French names we

537
00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:53,920
Speaker 1: say fombs known mispronounced. I can't reading, like the violent

538
00:29:54,000 --> 00:30:00,720
Speaker 1: films yeah, or the French like so yeah, Um, you

539
00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:03,000
Speaker 1: guys got your trip. There's a guy's trip, boys trip,

540
00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:05,320
Speaker 1: and there's a girl's trip, and they're kind of parallel

541
00:30:05,360 --> 00:30:08,360
Speaker 1: on parallel river systems. The reason I was gonna ask

542
00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:10,280
Speaker 1: you about this, when I was a boy, if you

543
00:30:10,400 --> 00:30:13,800
Speaker 1: were out like on a long canoe journey and you

544
00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:18,680
Speaker 1: were occasionally coming across an encampment of girls, oh boy,

545
00:30:19,400 --> 00:30:20,880
Speaker 1: I feel that there would be like you wouldn't be

546
00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:24,920
Speaker 1: able to pull them apart. For you guys avoid each other. Yeah,

547
00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:31,840
Speaker 1: specifically exactly exactly are you guys ranted? You guys rated

548
00:30:31,880 --> 00:30:33,560
Speaker 1: each other. You were out of all kinds of you

549
00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:36,440
Speaker 1: guys would like rain all your food reserves like you

550
00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:40,080
Speaker 1: you guys are starving, well not starving. It was bad.

551
00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:43,320
Speaker 1: We were we were being aware that we needed to

552
00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:46,120
Speaker 1: be careful with how much food we had, and they

553
00:30:46,200 --> 00:30:49,400
Speaker 1: had certain reserves. There was like there was a there

554
00:30:49,480 --> 00:30:51,400
Speaker 1: was an exchange, like they had like plenty of some

555
00:30:51,520 --> 00:30:53,920
Speaker 1: stuff that you were out of you guys have they

556
00:30:53,920 --> 00:30:56,840
Speaker 1: didn't have the right fishing equipment. You guys are slaying

557
00:30:56,920 --> 00:30:59,800
Speaker 1: Lake trout like it's nobody's business exactly. You like eating lakers.

558
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:01,560
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, you're talking about how good they are,

559
00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:04,280
Speaker 1: like a spokesman for the Lake Trout. Lake trout is

560
00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:06,680
Speaker 1: my favorite. The pictures in the book. You got a

561
00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:09,320
Speaker 1: couple like one of those things as a tanker. That's

562
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:11,560
Speaker 1: my like, the biggest fish in my life. It's probably

563
00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:14,400
Speaker 1: gonna be the biggest Lake Troy to ever catch. Someday.

564
00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:17,720
Speaker 1: I'm gonna make a graphite out of it. Incredible. Yeah,

565
00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:21,000
Speaker 1: and I mean they're they're absolutely amazing eating. Um. I

566
00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:22,960
Speaker 1: want to I want to return to the how do

567
00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:26,280
Speaker 1: you say it again? The farms. But one of the

568
00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:28,000
Speaker 1: coolest things, because I like to fish, one the cool

569
00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:31,440
Speaker 1: things is when you're in that big gass lake. Yeah,

570
00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:33,040
Speaker 1: and the ice is breaking up and you're kind of

571
00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:35,680
Speaker 1: like dragging over the ice and trying to find leads. Yeah,

572
00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:38,560
Speaker 1: you talk about the lakers are all up thinning. Yeah,

573
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:43,360
Speaker 1: that's the weirdest scene. It's crazy. I mean it's takes

574
00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:47,200
Speaker 1: spoons though, Yeah, they took spoons. Um, I mean they

575
00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:51,440
Speaker 1: just loved spoons and they were really easy to catch,

576
00:31:51,520 --> 00:31:53,320
Speaker 1: so we just tossed one out and be like, are

577
00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:55,040
Speaker 1: we we'd ask you know, hey, you guys want fish

578
00:31:55,080 --> 00:31:58,200
Speaker 1: for dinner and toss went out and like you as

579
00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:01,080
Speaker 1: many fish as you want? Yeah? Yeah, and you guys

580
00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:04,640
Speaker 1: flamm and do what with them? Yeah? We'd filatm we'd um.

581
00:32:05,560 --> 00:32:10,000
Speaker 1: I mean they're basically steaks them in the big one

582
00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:13,000
Speaker 1: that you caught, right, Yeah, this fish is as long

583
00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:16,400
Speaker 1: as your leg in that photograph. I'm not even holding

584
00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:19,560
Speaker 1: it for it. It's so heavy. I'm just like and

585
00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:22,880
Speaker 1: then I mean, did you guys eat that in one meal? Yeah?

586
00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:26,840
Speaker 1: They're growing kids, we're grown kids. We're burning a lot

587
00:32:26,920 --> 00:32:29,920
Speaker 1: of calories. Yeah, six people and you're low on pasta

588
00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:32,120
Speaker 1: were a low impastas, are like, all right, a couple

589
00:32:32,120 --> 00:32:35,200
Speaker 1: more fish meals? Um. So yeah, we pretty much just

590
00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:38,320
Speaker 1: fried up. Though you don't much that, but you run

591
00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:41,280
Speaker 1: into the farms out in the middle of nowhere. Yeah, uh,

592
00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:43,640
Speaker 1: but yeah, you gotta kind of steer clear of them,

593
00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:48,560
Speaker 1: probably because the camp, the boss man, the counselor makes

594
00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:50,760
Speaker 1: you guys steering her, the guide makes you steer clear

595
00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:52,960
Speaker 1: of them. No, I mean we're just like you gusn't

596
00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:55,880
Speaker 1: joined forces the party, right, We didn't want to impose

597
00:32:55,960 --> 00:32:57,440
Speaker 1: on their trip, you know. I mean when you're when

598
00:32:57,440 --> 00:32:59,959
Speaker 1: you're on a long trip like this, the group dynamic

599
00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:04,200
Speaker 1: are well, I mean they're for one thing, they're crucial, right. Um.

600
00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:07,520
Speaker 1: The other thing is you know, it's it's like, uh,

601
00:33:08,120 --> 00:33:11,680
Speaker 1: it's being made. Oh, it's almost being made in a vacuum.

602
00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:14,400
Speaker 1: Like you don't have a bunch of different input points.

603
00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:17,360
Speaker 1: You're not checking your Facebook, you're not interacting with a

604
00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:20,760
Speaker 1: bunch of different people, Like, it's just your group that's

605
00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:24,000
Speaker 1: out in the woods. And what you're making is something

606
00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:26,160
Speaker 1: that's super special. And you know that was special for

607
00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:28,040
Speaker 1: our group and special for their group, and we didn't

608
00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:32,800
Speaker 1: want to, uh you know, have them have a different

609
00:33:32,840 --> 00:33:34,800
Speaker 1: trip because of us or whatever. So you know, part

610
00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:39,719
Speaker 1: of its mutual respect and uh yeah, so I was, uh,

611
00:33:40,000 --> 00:33:42,440
Speaker 1: you know, I always want to act like when I

612
00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:44,880
Speaker 1: tell this anecdote, I always want to act like I

613
00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:46,720
Speaker 1: heard it, but I actually heard it from someone that

614
00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:49,200
Speaker 1: heard it. But a friend of mine went to remember

615
00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:51,480
Speaker 1: who else was I went to see a lecture by

616
00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:54,080
Speaker 1: a guy that does these extraordinarily long canoe trips like

617
00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:57,920
Speaker 1: what you're talking about, um, And he was talking about

618
00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:00,440
Speaker 1: you know when you spend a weekend, you spend a

619
00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:04,800
Speaker 1: weekend out of the woods, and you feel time slowing

620
00:34:04,880 --> 00:34:11,440
Speaker 1: down and you feel your mind clearing, your thoughts are focusing, right,

621
00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:16,000
Speaker 1: You're you're developing a sense of peace right at a

622
00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:22,000
Speaker 1: rapid rate. He said, that still happens. It's still happening

623
00:34:22,160 --> 00:34:27,520
Speaker 1: at that rate after thirty days. Yeah, that clarification line

624
00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:32,319
Speaker 1: doesn't doesn't stop. Wow, I believe that, And I can

625
00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:34,440
Speaker 1: see why you might get like in that zone. It

626
00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:39,280
Speaker 1: might get that you didn't want, you didn't need outside,

627
00:34:40,280 --> 00:34:43,000
Speaker 1: like you had your six guys, right, and you just

628
00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:46,400
Speaker 1: didn't need the noise of other individuals, right. I mean,

629
00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:48,560
Speaker 1: that's part of what's amazing about going on a trip

630
00:34:48,640 --> 00:34:50,200
Speaker 1: like this. And you know, to your point, you don't

631
00:34:50,239 --> 00:34:52,800
Speaker 1: need to be out for thirty days for that effect

632
00:34:52,920 --> 00:34:56,120
Speaker 1: to start taking place. You know, you go into the

633
00:34:56,200 --> 00:34:59,360
Speaker 1: boundary waters or whatever wild place you like to visit,

634
00:34:59,680 --> 00:35:03,080
Speaker 1: and it starts to happen quickly, Like getting away from

635
00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:07,360
Speaker 1: all that technology and everything and just being connected with

636
00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:12,719
Speaker 1: nature and everything. It has a profound effect on on

637
00:35:12,880 --> 00:35:15,239
Speaker 1: your psyche and and your body and your mind. And

638
00:35:15,840 --> 00:35:18,440
Speaker 1: it's just it's one of the reasons that that I

639
00:35:18,520 --> 00:35:19,799
Speaker 1: go out, and I think it's one of the reasons

640
00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:22,240
Speaker 1: a lot of people go out. It's just that personal

641
00:35:22,320 --> 00:35:26,600
Speaker 1: transformation and centering that happens when you guys during the

642
00:35:26,640 --> 00:35:30,640
Speaker 1: whole trip. Um, it seems like you're kind of traveling

643
00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:35,640
Speaker 1: through two kinds of water. One is just like one

644
00:35:35,719 --> 00:35:40,120
Speaker 1: is just you're slogging right against the wind across lakes

645
00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:46,879
Speaker 1: and it's just probably incredibly monotonous, right, And the other

646
00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:51,880
Speaker 1: the other is that, um, you're often in situations that

647
00:35:51,920 --> 00:35:57,719
Speaker 1: it feel like, like extremely threatening from white water. Yeah,

648
00:35:57,840 --> 00:36:01,600
Speaker 1: and canyons feel that way. We're we're working within our

649
00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:03,880
Speaker 1: with when their skill set and everything. But yeah, I

650
00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:09,040
Speaker 1: mean when you're in it, Yeah, and then portaging around

651
00:36:09,080 --> 00:36:11,719
Speaker 1: stuff all the time. Which of those two things do

652
00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:14,760
Speaker 1: you prefer? Did you like just the just the going

653
00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:17,759
Speaker 1: or did you like that that that stress of the

654
00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:21,480
Speaker 1: white water. I really like both. I think both combined

655
00:36:21,600 --> 00:36:28,280
Speaker 1: is is really awesome. Tentilating. That's great. Uh, talk about

656
00:36:28,480 --> 00:36:30,640
Speaker 1: the implications of having a spray skirt or not a

657
00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:33,160
Speaker 1: spray skirt, which I thought was pretty interesting. Yeah. So

658
00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:36,439
Speaker 1: spray skirt is basically like a poncho that latches onto

659
00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:40,400
Speaker 1: your boat um and then comes up to your person

660
00:36:40,760 --> 00:36:43,880
Speaker 1: um and keeps water from coming over the sides or

661
00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:45,560
Speaker 1: going over the top of the boat and getting into

662
00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:49,680
Speaker 1: the boat um slash water. And in a two person canoe,

663
00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:51,799
Speaker 1: it's is it connected or how does that work? There's

664
00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:53,640
Speaker 1: a couple of different ways it can be set up.

665
00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:55,479
Speaker 1: There might be just a bow skirt just for the front,

666
00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:57,880
Speaker 1: or there might be like a full one where you know,

667
00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:00,880
Speaker 1: both the bow and the stern person are like cinched

668
00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:04,440
Speaker 1: in and there's uh all snaps all around the gunnals

669
00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:08,120
Speaker 1: um the boat and that's like full protection. So UM,

670
00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:10,640
Speaker 1: we didn't have them on ours just because it's kind

671
00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:14,840
Speaker 1: of it was uh the mental hope that we wouldn't

672
00:37:14,920 --> 00:37:17,839
Speaker 1: paddle as big a water if we didn't have that UM,

673
00:37:18,440 --> 00:37:21,320
Speaker 1: And then uh policy switched not that long after to

674
00:37:21,400 --> 00:37:24,320
Speaker 1: include them just because they are, UM they're helpful in

675
00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:26,200
Speaker 1: making sure that that you're as safe as you can

676
00:37:26,280 --> 00:37:28,239
Speaker 1: be out there and don't end up getting a bunch

677
00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:30,359
Speaker 1: of water, because if you end up getting some water

678
00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:33,400
Speaker 1: in your boat, it starts to affect how it handles

679
00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:36,920
Speaker 1: pretty significantly. So UM. But because we didn't have them.

680
00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:39,560
Speaker 1: We were, we were paddling super conservatively. But it's sort

681
00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:41,640
Speaker 1: of a calculated decision you made. I mean, you could

682
00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:46,040
Speaker 1: have had them. Yeah, but it invites, it could invite,

683
00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:48,560
Speaker 1: you know, the decision to be like we got the skirts,

684
00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:52,080
Speaker 1: let's do it. You know. Um, but I think if

685
00:37:52,120 --> 00:37:54,959
Speaker 1: I went again, I would have the skirts and can't

686
00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:57,120
Speaker 1: use the skirts now. Like I said, just because it's

687
00:37:57,160 --> 00:38:00,560
Speaker 1: a it just raises your level of safety a little bit.

688
00:38:00,719 --> 00:38:03,080
Speaker 1: You know, you're still paddling conservatively and you don't want

689
00:38:03,120 --> 00:38:06,560
Speaker 1: to go into crazy stuff. Um, but it just it

690
00:38:06,680 --> 00:38:09,000
Speaker 1: makes it so that smaller things don't become bigger things.

691
00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:13,080
Speaker 1: There's this pioneering um mountain hunter. He's dead now, but

692
00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:15,400
Speaker 1: his name is Duncan Gil Chris, and he would do

693
00:38:15,480 --> 00:38:17,520
Speaker 1: a lot of things that no one had done. And

694
00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:20,080
Speaker 1: he had a similar approach to crampons when he was

695
00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:25,520
Speaker 1: hunting mountain goats brought him. Okay, but you do not

696
00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:29,279
Speaker 1: put them on to get somewhere. Oh sure, you only

697
00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:32,800
Speaker 1: put them on to get out of somewhere. Right. That

698
00:38:32,960 --> 00:38:35,440
Speaker 1: was his like view on it, right, Like it invites

699
00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:39,440
Speaker 1: a level like it invites that like next we can

700
00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:41,719
Speaker 1: do it. Yeah, that next level of stuff, and you

701
00:38:41,760 --> 00:38:43,440
Speaker 1: just had to make a rule for yourself. You know,

702
00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:47,880
Speaker 1: I don't touch these to get somewhere. Yeah. Yeah, it's

703
00:38:47,920 --> 00:38:49,960
Speaker 1: kind of like setting up bumpers, you know, so that

704
00:38:50,120 --> 00:38:54,960
Speaker 1: you can't cheat in your mind. Yeah, explain to me

705
00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:59,160
Speaker 1: some of the river hazards, recyclers, strainers. You do pretty

706
00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:01,520
Speaker 1: good job of walk through all these things. Yeah. So

707
00:39:01,640 --> 00:39:03,360
Speaker 1: there's a lot of different We call him all features

708
00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:08,279
Speaker 1: basically in the rivers. Yeah, um so recyclers basically tumbling water. Um.

709
00:39:08,560 --> 00:39:12,160
Speaker 1: I think some people call him haystacks. Um. Not positive

710
00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:14,640
Speaker 1: on that. We want to fact check that. Okay, throw

711
00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:18,680
Speaker 1: pillow into this pillow. So I get confused about so

712
00:39:18,760 --> 00:39:20,400
Speaker 1: I look at it all as like, you know, I

713
00:39:20,680 --> 00:39:22,520
Speaker 1: guess I kind of understand what it is, but I

714
00:39:22,560 --> 00:39:25,680
Speaker 1: don't have the vocabulary that you have for it all. Yeah,

715
00:39:25,719 --> 00:39:29,759
Speaker 1: and a really good resource for that is um uh Oh,

716
00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:31,640
Speaker 1: I'm blanking on his name. He's like the pioneer of

717
00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:35,759
Speaker 1: popular canoeing. Uh. He has a great book about it.

718
00:39:36,239 --> 00:39:38,520
Speaker 1: But up in the boundary waters? Is he from that

719
00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:42,040
Speaker 1: country you're thinking of it? No, it's not stew. It's

720
00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:45,479
Speaker 1: like a big coffee table book with um all kinds

721
00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:49,839
Speaker 1: of instructional information. Fine, I want I'll buy this book

722
00:39:49,920 --> 00:39:53,080
Speaker 1: right now. Yeah. Yeah, it's awesome. Um, maybe when you

723
00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:58,600
Speaker 1: guys a computer can check it out. Yeah. Oh and

724
00:39:58,680 --> 00:40:01,680
Speaker 1: he's got he painted and he did a bunch of documentaries.

725
00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:07,040
Speaker 1: But he's like the godfather of modern canoeing. And I'll

726
00:40:07,080 --> 00:40:10,200
Speaker 1: probably pop up. But the number two hit will be, uh,

727
00:40:10,719 --> 00:40:13,399
Speaker 1: the number two hit will probably this gentleman. Okay, gone

728
00:40:13,600 --> 00:40:15,560
Speaker 1: explain some features for me. Yeah. So on the river,

729
00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:19,040
Speaker 1: there's a bunch of different ways that the water interacts with, um,

730
00:40:19,440 --> 00:40:22,680
Speaker 1: you know, the rocks and and the shoreline and different

731
00:40:22,680 --> 00:40:25,720
Speaker 1: stuff that's in there. So um, there you're typically aiming

732
00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:28,520
Speaker 1: for downstream vs, which literally form a V that points

733
00:40:28,560 --> 00:40:31,759
Speaker 1: downstream and that's kind of like the safest way down um.

734
00:40:32,239 --> 00:40:35,000
Speaker 1: And then behind the rocks or are they things, usually

735
00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:37,440
Speaker 1: there's an eddie where the current is kind of swirling

736
00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:41,239
Speaker 1: around and it's kind of going upstream. It's calmer water. Usually, Um,

737
00:40:42,239 --> 00:40:46,160
Speaker 1: there are these kind of insidious ones called pillows, and

738
00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:49,000
Speaker 1: no one want to see one. But I don't know what.

739
00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:51,480
Speaker 1: I don't understand the hydraulics of it. So basically, the

740
00:40:51,600 --> 00:40:55,560
Speaker 1: water uh is pushing up and over something and that's

741
00:40:55,640 --> 00:40:59,120
Speaker 1: something you know, it's a rock or a log or whatever,

742
00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:03,040
Speaker 1: but it's it's pushing over it smoothly. So when you're

743
00:41:03,080 --> 00:41:06,160
Speaker 1: looking at it from upstream, all you see is this

744
00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:10,320
Speaker 1: kind of like infinity pool edge. And when you're tubing,

745
00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:14,319
Speaker 1: it's a tailbone ruiner. Yeah exactly. Yeah, you're gonna get

746
00:41:14,360 --> 00:41:16,920
Speaker 1: hung up on it or whatever, depending on the current. Um.

747
00:41:17,560 --> 00:41:20,120
Speaker 1: But like behind them there can be a like a

748
00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:23,439
Speaker 1: waterfall pretty much. Um. So they're almost impossible to see

749
00:41:23,520 --> 00:41:26,239
Speaker 1: from upstream, and and uh, you gotta watch out for

750
00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:28,480
Speaker 1: him because they'll just come up and you're like, oh, ship,

751
00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:32,680
Speaker 1: we gotta do something. Um. Then there's recyclers where the

752
00:41:32,719 --> 00:41:37,640
Speaker 1: water and that's what that's what we called him sleepers. Sleepers. Yeah,

753
00:41:37,920 --> 00:41:41,239
Speaker 1: hold on, you call the pillow sleeper Okay, yeah, are

754
00:41:41,280 --> 00:41:44,240
Speaker 1: you still talking the river and bed pillow and sleeper

755
00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:46,640
Speaker 1: kind of yeah, yeah, what the hell is with them?

756
00:41:47,000 --> 00:41:51,359
Speaker 1: It's sort of like very peaceful, oculous. You know, it's

757
00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:55,440
Speaker 1: called a blanket. It's recycling. It's good for them because

758
00:41:55,520 --> 00:41:58,359
Speaker 1: it does it has that look from above it's hard

759
00:41:58,520 --> 00:42:02,120
Speaker 1: to pick out. You can sleeper like that. Yeah. Gosh, yeah,

760
00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:06,160
Speaker 1: we used to confuse creeper and sleeper okay, not with

761
00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:09,759
Speaker 1: water with alcohol, Oh to feel like, man, I drink

762
00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:13,200
Speaker 1: some real creeper, which is what which meant that you'd

763
00:42:13,480 --> 00:42:17,120
Speaker 1: enjoy it quickly. Yeah, and all of a sudden craft

764
00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:18,759
Speaker 1: up on didn't know one hits you. Yeah, and you

765
00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:23,400
Speaker 1: like Long Island iced teas were creepers, yeah, or you

766
00:42:23,440 --> 00:42:26,160
Speaker 1: could call them sleepers. Looks fine. How bad could it be?

767
00:42:27,040 --> 00:42:31,040
Speaker 1: A beach bucketful? Yeah? Yeah. And one of the other

768
00:42:31,120 --> 00:42:34,000
Speaker 1: features that's really dangerous is a strainer, which is basically

769
00:42:34,320 --> 00:42:37,279
Speaker 1: typically a um like a branch or a tree where

770
00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:39,719
Speaker 1: it's just straining the water and that creates a lot

771
00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:43,279
Speaker 1: of hydraulic pressure on the upstream side that can trap

772
00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:48,760
Speaker 1: stuff um including like people or gear, boets and stuff.

773
00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:51,279
Speaker 1: And oh they're bad too, man. Yeah. I had to

774
00:42:51,360 --> 00:42:52,640
Speaker 1: run in with one of those this year with my

775
00:42:52,719 --> 00:42:54,480
Speaker 1: wife and her friends. We put our canoe in. I

776
00:42:54,560 --> 00:42:56,480
Speaker 1: was like, there's a chance we're all going in the

777
00:42:56,560 --> 00:43:01,799
Speaker 1: river because it's just high. But it's like people don't

778
00:43:01,880 --> 00:43:04,480
Speaker 1: want to when you're coming up on a bad sweeper.

779
00:43:05,480 --> 00:43:09,440
Speaker 1: It's people don't want to accept the pain of leaning

780
00:43:09,600 --> 00:43:11,800
Speaker 1: forward and letting it do whatever it's gonna do to

781
00:43:11,880 --> 00:43:14,960
Speaker 1: your back right, like to jump over it, you mean,

782
00:43:15,120 --> 00:43:17,560
Speaker 1: or no, like there's a big limb out, Yeah, and

783
00:43:17,680 --> 00:43:19,600
Speaker 1: you're gonna go on. You have to accept that, like

784
00:43:19,719 --> 00:43:21,520
Speaker 1: this is not gonna be fun. But I will lean

785
00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:25,000
Speaker 1: over and my back will take all the branch, you know,

786
00:43:25,200 --> 00:43:27,719
Speaker 1: the scraping right, But that's what you have to do.

787
00:43:27,880 --> 00:43:29,279
Speaker 1: And I was like, whatever we do when we hit

788
00:43:29,360 --> 00:43:30,880
Speaker 1: this thing. We're coming up and like we're hitting it,

789
00:43:30,960 --> 00:43:34,200
Speaker 1: it's like, don't lean, don't lean, just take it. Yeah,

790
00:43:34,400 --> 00:43:37,120
Speaker 1: but they lean you're saying, don't lean back or to

791
00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:41,879
Speaker 1: the side into the side, yeah, like just absorb the blow,

792
00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:43,879
Speaker 1: you know, like when you go like a loose one,

793
00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:47,160
Speaker 1: you know. Yeah. Yeah. And if the branches are going

794
00:43:47,239 --> 00:43:49,120
Speaker 1: down into the water, then this is a whole different story.

795
00:43:49,320 --> 00:43:51,640
Speaker 1: You gotta go around it because it can pull stuff

796
00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:54,200
Speaker 1: down or like if you get hung up on it,

797
00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:56,719
Speaker 1: the way that the currents going can make your boat

798
00:43:56,760 --> 00:44:01,160
Speaker 1: want to spin around or you know, flips sideways because

799
00:44:01,160 --> 00:44:04,359
Speaker 1: it's pulling at the at the bottom of the boat.

800
00:44:04,560 --> 00:44:09,560
Speaker 1: One of the most lethal features, uh, probably the the

801
00:44:09,640 --> 00:44:11,920
Speaker 1: ones you get hung up on. The hung up on

802
00:44:12,239 --> 00:44:15,200
Speaker 1: not well like a strainer, like you know, if you

803
00:44:15,280 --> 00:44:17,600
Speaker 1: get if you broadside a rock or something. Then it

804
00:44:17,719 --> 00:44:19,880
Speaker 1: can just trap your boat and fold the boat around it,

805
00:44:20,040 --> 00:44:22,360
Speaker 1: and then you've got you're having to scramble out of it,

806
00:44:22,520 --> 00:44:24,759
Speaker 1: you know, take care of yourself and your gears, all

807
00:44:24,760 --> 00:44:28,640
Speaker 1: of garage sailing, and your boat might be pretty significantly

808
00:44:28,719 --> 00:44:32,560
Speaker 1: damaged or or just stuck and require some uh some

809
00:44:32,880 --> 00:44:35,600
Speaker 1: rescue techniques or recovery techniques to get it pulled off

810
00:44:35,640 --> 00:44:38,279
Speaker 1: of that rock. Did you guys carry equipment for jack

811
00:44:38,320 --> 00:44:40,920
Speaker 1: and your boats off rocks. Yeah, we carried a set

812
00:44:41,000 --> 00:44:42,880
Speaker 1: of ropes and carabineers to set up. I think it

813
00:44:42,920 --> 00:44:44,879
Speaker 1: was a three to one, like a standard Z drag

814
00:44:45,000 --> 00:44:47,839
Speaker 1: is what we call it, um so, but yeah, because

815
00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:50,840
Speaker 1: they could just to avoid that when you when you

816
00:44:50,880 --> 00:44:52,799
Speaker 1: maage all the hydraulics, like if you imagine a boat

817
00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:56,600
Speaker 1: against the rock and then add some you know, some

818
00:44:57,200 --> 00:45:01,120
Speaker 1: massive water that's moving whatever in nine miles our pressing

819
00:45:01,160 --> 00:45:03,839
Speaker 1: against that thing, right, it's an enormous amount of force,

820
00:45:03,920 --> 00:45:06,160
Speaker 1: it's huge holding it in place. Yeah. Yeah, and the

821
00:45:06,239 --> 00:45:09,680
Speaker 1: canoes wrapped around the rock like a tin can. So

822
00:45:10,160 --> 00:45:12,200
Speaker 1: even if you get that Z drag set up, you

823
00:45:12,200 --> 00:45:14,279
Speaker 1: know you're doing the three to one. You're hauling on

824
00:45:14,440 --> 00:45:16,880
Speaker 1: it and the rope stretching because of the water, and

825
00:45:17,480 --> 00:45:19,359
Speaker 1: then you've got people in the middle doing sheer force

826
00:45:19,440 --> 00:45:21,120
Speaker 1: moving the ropebole back and forth. They can be a

827
00:45:21,280 --> 00:45:25,680
Speaker 1: real struggle to get a boat recover. Theyving in canoes.

828
00:45:26,120 --> 00:45:30,160
Speaker 1: These were um Royal Royal X. Yeah, rest in peace,

829
00:45:30,280 --> 00:45:33,800
Speaker 1: Royal X. It is done now done. Got cars in

830
00:45:33,840 --> 00:45:37,040
Speaker 1: Jennick or something. Uh. It was kind of like Coda chrome.

831
00:45:37,080 --> 00:45:38,800
Speaker 1: There was one spot that made it I think is

832
00:45:38,960 --> 00:45:42,279
Speaker 1: what I understand. Really Royal X canoes are no more. Yeah,

833
00:45:42,440 --> 00:45:46,520
Speaker 1: there's there's a couple of different materials. So they've made

834
00:45:46,600 --> 00:45:51,240
Speaker 1: some super tough um like composite, kind of like kevlar.

835
00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:56,080
Speaker 1: I think I have Old townc what's that would probably

836
00:45:56,239 --> 00:45:59,759
Speaker 1: Royal X. This is like a plastic compound. Yeah, yeah,

837
00:45:59,800 --> 00:46:01,879
Speaker 1: it's plastic. It's kind of got this weird foam stuff

838
00:46:01,920 --> 00:46:03,719
Speaker 1: in the middle. But once you get it pulled off

839
00:46:03,760 --> 00:46:05,160
Speaker 1: of a rock, you set it out in the sun

840
00:46:05,320 --> 00:46:07,000
Speaker 1: or next to a fire and the heat just let

841
00:46:07,040 --> 00:46:09,520
Speaker 1: it to pop back to shaping. Really keep get back

842
00:46:09,560 --> 00:46:11,439
Speaker 1: on the water. You might have to do a little

843
00:46:11,480 --> 00:46:14,040
Speaker 1: patching or you know, hammer the gunles and did you

844
00:46:14,080 --> 00:46:16,480
Speaker 1: guys carry gear with you to fix canoes. Yeah, I

845
00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:18,200
Speaker 1: don't remember what the kit was like, but we had

846
00:46:18,320 --> 00:46:25,279
Speaker 1: repair kits for everything, stoves, canoe. Uh. People, I was

847
00:46:25,320 --> 00:46:27,319
Speaker 1: surprised to see that you guys would run just those

848
00:46:27,360 --> 00:46:31,560
Speaker 1: regular woven like standard woven seats. You didn't do like

849
00:46:31,680 --> 00:46:33,960
Speaker 1: crazy creek set up with back support and stuff. You

850
00:46:34,000 --> 00:46:35,719
Speaker 1: just gotta learn to live with it. Yeah, I mean

851
00:46:35,800 --> 00:46:38,680
Speaker 1: you're posture right and go. Yeah, I I really don't

852
00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:41,239
Speaker 1: like a backrest in a canoe. So is that like,

853
00:46:41,360 --> 00:46:44,080
Speaker 1: is that not pro pros don't like a backrest. I

854
00:46:44,080 --> 00:46:46,520
Speaker 1: would probably say that. I mean, you know, it's if

855
00:46:46,560 --> 00:46:48,240
Speaker 1: you're if you're we need to do with the backrest,

856
00:46:48,280 --> 00:46:53,239
Speaker 1: you're like, uh, I'm like, I'd never do that, you know,

857
00:46:53,560 --> 00:46:55,279
Speaker 1: with the exception of like if you're hanging out for

858
00:46:55,320 --> 00:46:57,440
Speaker 1: a long time, if you're if you're just sitting and fishing,

859
00:46:57,600 --> 00:46:59,839
Speaker 1: I mean by all means, but if you're paddling big

860
00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:02,959
Speaker 1: water stuff where it's um the boats getting tossed around

861
00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:06,040
Speaker 1: and stuff, Uh, that backrest is making you kind of

862
00:47:06,120 --> 00:47:08,320
Speaker 1: an extension of the boat in a bad way. Like

863
00:47:08,440 --> 00:47:11,239
Speaker 1: you need to have enough fluid in your person. Yeah,

864
00:47:11,560 --> 00:47:12,960
Speaker 1: you know, if you're just sit there with the stiff

865
00:47:13,040 --> 00:47:16,680
Speaker 1: back and and stuff ends up tossing you around. Then

866
00:47:17,320 --> 00:47:19,560
Speaker 1: gravity is pushing you over. You guys paddled most that

867
00:47:19,680 --> 00:47:25,400
Speaker 1: stuff not sitting in those seats, but that, yeah, lowers

868
00:47:25,440 --> 00:47:28,000
Speaker 1: your center of gravity. You can move the canoe with

869
00:47:28,080 --> 00:47:31,440
Speaker 1: your knees, like you know, if the bus, but if

870
00:47:31,480 --> 00:47:33,640
Speaker 1: the boat's getting pushed to the left, you can push

871
00:47:33,719 --> 00:47:36,759
Speaker 1: to the right and get it straightened back out. And

872
00:47:36,880 --> 00:47:40,960
Speaker 1: you and you know a wide array of strokes that

873
00:47:41,480 --> 00:47:44,240
Speaker 1: maybe I know them and don't know that they have names,

874
00:47:45,400 --> 00:47:48,399
Speaker 1: but what are some of the you break down quite

875
00:47:48,400 --> 00:47:50,600
Speaker 1: a few strokes. Yeah, So, I mean there's a lot

876
00:47:50,640 --> 00:47:52,920
Speaker 1: of different ways to move a canoe, but the basic

877
00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:55,480
Speaker 1: ones are forward paddle, backroud paddle, which are exactly what

878
00:47:55,600 --> 00:47:58,680
Speaker 1: you think. Um. And then when you're in the stern,

879
00:47:58,719 --> 00:48:01,359
Speaker 1: when you're in the back and you're you're doing the steering, Um,

880
00:48:01,680 --> 00:48:05,440
Speaker 1: there's the J stroke and C stroke. UM. And the

881
00:48:05,560 --> 00:48:10,600
Speaker 1: J stroke basically corrects, uh, the turn that naturally happens

882
00:48:10,680 --> 00:48:12,560
Speaker 1: when you're paddling the boat from the back. You're on

883
00:48:12,600 --> 00:48:14,799
Speaker 1: the right and you're just paddling, it's gonna generally push

884
00:48:14,840 --> 00:48:17,279
Speaker 1: you to the left. And the J sid Yeah, do

885
00:48:17,320 --> 00:48:19,040
Speaker 1: you when you're doing J stroke. Do you throw the

886
00:48:19,120 --> 00:48:21,759
Speaker 1: J on every stroke or the only correct like every other?

887
00:48:22,719 --> 00:48:25,960
Speaker 1: I typically correct every other, but it's totally a nuanced

888
00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:28,800
Speaker 1: thing depending on the weather and and uh, you know,

889
00:48:28,840 --> 00:48:31,200
Speaker 1: if there's any current or whatever. So you get into

890
00:48:31,200 --> 00:48:32,920
Speaker 1: the mode where you're not even thinking about it. You're

891
00:48:32,960 --> 00:48:34,839
Speaker 1: just like throwing a J in every once in a while. Yeah,

892
00:48:34,880 --> 00:48:37,320
Speaker 1: it seems like there's like a there's like I like it,

893
00:48:37,360 --> 00:48:39,800
Speaker 1: but there's like an inefficiency in it. Like you're definitely

894
00:48:39,840 --> 00:48:43,879
Speaker 1: like throwing drag. You're throwing the least amount of drag

895
00:48:43,960 --> 00:48:46,920
Speaker 1: that you can by with staying on the same side.

896
00:48:47,440 --> 00:48:49,239
Speaker 1: You know, A J stroke is is just like a

897
00:48:49,320 --> 00:48:52,200
Speaker 1: little a little hit at the end of the at

898
00:48:52,239 --> 00:48:54,200
Speaker 1: the end of the forward stroke. It's not like a

899
00:48:54,280 --> 00:48:57,279
Speaker 1: rudder where you're like boom and both just slowing down. Yeah,

900
00:48:57,320 --> 00:48:59,239
Speaker 1: people who are familiar with this, imagine that you're you're

901
00:48:59,239 --> 00:49:01,440
Speaker 1: paddling along you're paidly just how you imagine you're paddling.

902
00:49:01,480 --> 00:49:05,760
Speaker 1: Where you're paddle is hitting the water perpendicular to in line,

903
00:49:05,840 --> 00:49:08,000
Speaker 1: the blade is hitting the water perpendicular to the canoe,

904
00:49:08,480 --> 00:49:10,799
Speaker 1: and it's just following the canoe along. At the end,

905
00:49:11,560 --> 00:49:13,640
Speaker 1: you put a little hook on it where you shoot

906
00:49:14,440 --> 00:49:16,719
Speaker 1: the paddle, you like, turn the paddle and shoot it

907
00:49:16,760 --> 00:49:20,160
Speaker 1: slightly outward because the stroke is nudging it left, and

908
00:49:20,239 --> 00:49:22,839
Speaker 1: that little hook on the end just pops the bow back.

909
00:49:23,360 --> 00:49:27,160
Speaker 1: Can you explain why? Because it's it's I mean, I

910
00:49:27,520 --> 00:49:30,120
Speaker 1: understand now why right, But I think it's a lot

911
00:49:30,160 --> 00:49:32,240
Speaker 1: of people. It's like when I was learning into paddle

912
00:49:32,280 --> 00:49:34,759
Speaker 1: a canoe, I'd be like, there's a guy, a person

913
00:49:34,840 --> 00:49:38,080
Speaker 1: in front paddling the same kind of paddle that I'm paddling,

914
00:49:38,400 --> 00:49:41,040
Speaker 1: and I'm in the back paddling. Why and they're on

915
00:49:41,120 --> 00:49:44,600
Speaker 1: the opposite side. Why still is my stroke more powerful

916
00:49:44,640 --> 00:49:47,080
Speaker 1: and pushing the canoe to the left if you're paddling

917
00:49:47,120 --> 00:49:50,840
Speaker 1: on the right. Uh, that's a good physics question. Then

918
00:49:50,840 --> 00:49:53,280
Speaker 1: I don't know if I can answer the exact physics

919
00:49:53,360 --> 00:49:59,880
Speaker 1: of it. Um. But yeah, typically the person in the

920
00:50:00,040 --> 00:50:02,080
Speaker 1: front is is the motor. Do you think of them

921
00:50:02,080 --> 00:50:04,600
Speaker 1: as the motor they're pulling the boat along? Yeah. And

922
00:50:04,680 --> 00:50:09,160
Speaker 1: then in the back, Um, for one, the stern seat

923
00:50:09,280 --> 00:50:11,040
Speaker 1: is usually a lot closer to the end of the boat.

924
00:50:11,800 --> 00:50:15,880
Speaker 1: So in terms of leverage, you know, um, if you

925
00:50:16,000 --> 00:50:17,320
Speaker 1: were to pull the front of the boat or the

926
00:50:17,400 --> 00:50:19,480
Speaker 1: back of the boat left or right, it's gonna move

927
00:50:19,520 --> 00:50:21,520
Speaker 1: it significantly, Whereas if you're sitting in the middle and

928
00:50:21,560 --> 00:50:23,440
Speaker 1: you're trying to turn it, it takes a lot more

929
00:50:23,520 --> 00:50:26,880
Speaker 1: force to to turn that um. So you know, if

930
00:50:26,920 --> 00:50:29,360
Speaker 1: the boat is a lever, you're further away from the

931
00:50:29,400 --> 00:50:33,800
Speaker 1: fulcrum was right on the bow and he was stroking,

932
00:50:33,840 --> 00:50:37,000
Speaker 1: it might turn the boat a lot more, I suppose. Yeah,

933
00:50:37,239 --> 00:50:38,520
Speaker 1: So like if you're in the bow and you need

934
00:50:38,560 --> 00:50:40,319
Speaker 1: to move the boat a lot, you're gonna you're gonna

935
00:50:40,400 --> 00:50:44,759
Speaker 1: reach forward, forward and out to try to um make

936
00:50:44,840 --> 00:50:46,960
Speaker 1: that happen. So that's something you do in white water.

937
00:50:47,000 --> 00:50:48,680
Speaker 1: You're like, oh, ship, here comes a rock and you

938
00:50:48,760 --> 00:50:51,319
Speaker 1: know you're in the bow and you just you're it's

939
00:50:51,360 --> 00:50:53,560
Speaker 1: super physical. You know, you're on your knees, which also

940
00:50:53,600 --> 00:50:56,080
Speaker 1: allows you to move your paddle position a lot more

941
00:50:56,160 --> 00:50:59,600
Speaker 1: than if you're locked on your seat. So yeah, you're

942
00:50:59,640 --> 00:51:02,239
Speaker 1: just further from the fulkrum in the stern. And then

943
00:51:02,280 --> 00:51:04,160
Speaker 1: the other main stroke is the C stroke, and that's

944
00:51:04,200 --> 00:51:07,799
Speaker 1: kind of the opposite um. You're you're pulling the water

945
00:51:07,880 --> 00:51:09,720
Speaker 1: back and then you can do a little hook towards

946
00:51:09,800 --> 00:51:11,279
Speaker 1: the canoe at the end and that just kind of

947
00:51:11,360 --> 00:51:16,120
Speaker 1: makes that that automatic movement of the boat in the

948
00:51:16,200 --> 00:51:19,640
Speaker 1: opposite direction that much more profound. It's interesting that for

949
00:51:19,719 --> 00:51:24,799
Speaker 1: a right hand or both of those letters are backwards. Yeah,

950
00:51:24,840 --> 00:51:33,120
Speaker 1: that's good point. Speaking of pros. Is the person you're

951
00:51:33,120 --> 00:51:37,040
Speaker 1: speaking of before, Bill Mason? Yes, Bill Mason, and the

952
00:51:37,120 --> 00:51:40,719
Speaker 1: canoe is Bible is path of the paddle? Yes, ye,

953
00:51:41,000 --> 00:51:44,240
Speaker 1: thank you. That's the voice of rain Fart Steam podcast

954
00:51:44,280 --> 00:51:54,680
Speaker 1: producer Cringe. You haven't said anything yet today The Right

955
00:51:54,760 --> 00:51:59,319
Speaker 1: Way Karin starred. Um had a starring role in our

956
00:51:59,520 --> 00:52:04,480
Speaker 1: Christmas Ashal. That was so fun. How many miles have

957
00:52:04,520 --> 00:52:06,799
Speaker 1: you paddled your whole life? I've never done the math

958
00:52:07,239 --> 00:52:11,480
Speaker 1: thousands probably, Yeah, most of that in the boundary waters

959
00:52:11,680 --> 00:52:14,080
Speaker 1: in quite a co and your books called the twenty

960
00:52:14,200 --> 00:52:16,520
Speaker 1: ninth Day? Yeah, what happens on the twenty ninth day?

961
00:52:17,520 --> 00:52:20,719
Speaker 1: We had breakfast? You know, it's a day off. You're

962
00:52:20,719 --> 00:52:23,600
Speaker 1: taking a day off. You're you're like, I don't know

963
00:52:23,640 --> 00:52:25,759
Speaker 1: what you're like, four fifths done or three fifths done

964
00:52:26,840 --> 00:52:29,960
Speaker 1: day of a forty two day. Yeah. Yeah, we're most

965
00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:32,640
Speaker 1: of the way horrible at math. I can't I can't

966
00:52:32,840 --> 00:52:35,239
Speaker 1: simple math. We're most of the way. Um, you know,

967
00:52:35,320 --> 00:52:38,160
Speaker 1: it's probably our third layover day of the trip. We

968
00:52:38,200 --> 00:52:40,000
Speaker 1: took our first lay over day twenty days and so

969
00:52:40,040 --> 00:52:42,400
Speaker 1: we're paddling for three weeks before. So you're just kind

970
00:52:42,400 --> 00:52:44,960
Speaker 1: of watching your schedule and seeing how you're making along. Yeah,

971
00:52:45,040 --> 00:52:48,040
Speaker 1: making just take a break, yeah, yeah, just you know

972
00:52:48,400 --> 00:52:52,759
Speaker 1: how we feeling. Are we just totally bushed? Um? Are

973
00:52:52,840 --> 00:52:56,200
Speaker 1: we on track? Do we need to make up time? So? Uh,

974
00:52:56,400 --> 00:52:58,239
Speaker 1: you guys, take a little break, take a little break,

975
00:52:58,360 --> 00:53:01,600
Speaker 1: have some breakfast. Yeah. Lay over day I like to say,

976
00:53:01,719 --> 00:53:03,759
Speaker 1: is is just one meal after the other. You know,

977
00:53:03,960 --> 00:53:07,640
Speaker 1: you're just like, oh, let's have breakfast because right, I

978
00:53:07,680 --> 00:53:10,000
Speaker 1: mean yeah, it's kind of like hiker stomach where you're

979
00:53:10,000 --> 00:53:12,160
Speaker 1: just like burning so many calories. You're like I could

980
00:53:12,200 --> 00:53:15,759
Speaker 1: eat NonStop and just still be hungry. So are you

981
00:53:15,800 --> 00:53:19,439
Speaker 1: getting like you're losing weight? But like you're losing weight,

982
00:53:19,520 --> 00:53:22,600
Speaker 1: but but your muscles gotta be doing weird things. But

983
00:53:22,760 --> 00:53:25,600
Speaker 1: your legs are shrinking? Yeah? Yeah, I mean we're not

984
00:53:25,719 --> 00:53:27,840
Speaker 1: moving too much with our legs. So and and you

985
00:53:27,960 --> 00:53:30,920
Speaker 1: gotta move a long distance in the flats to get anywhere.

986
00:53:31,160 --> 00:53:35,879
Speaker 1: Uh and so it's a yeah, you're just getting lean. Um,

987
00:53:36,640 --> 00:53:39,480
Speaker 1: so you know your your upper body with a paddling

988
00:53:39,520 --> 00:53:43,600
Speaker 1: trip just gets really efficient and you know your back

989
00:53:43,719 --> 00:53:47,040
Speaker 1: muscles are are doing awesome because you're just doing thousands

990
00:53:47,080 --> 00:53:49,759
Speaker 1: of paddle strokes every day. So you know those days

991
00:53:49,840 --> 00:53:54,360
Speaker 1: arrests are are super important, um in kind of recharging.

992
00:53:54,960 --> 00:53:57,520
Speaker 1: But uh yeah, So this one, we were camped on

993
00:53:57,719 --> 00:54:02,360
Speaker 1: Princess Mary Lake, which is this enormous lake. Um, I

994
00:54:02,400 --> 00:54:04,560
Speaker 1: can't remember how far across it was, you know, fifteen

995
00:54:04,840 --> 00:54:07,640
Speaker 1: twenty miles across from shore to shore. And we're camped

996
00:54:07,680 --> 00:54:11,600
Speaker 1: on this island in the middle of it. And um,

997
00:54:11,880 --> 00:54:14,759
Speaker 1: we're a couple of hundred yards up from shore. Um,

998
00:54:15,800 --> 00:54:19,480
Speaker 1: camped on a flat that's below this super steep ridge

999
00:54:19,800 --> 00:54:25,120
Speaker 1: behind our campsite. And uh, we have breakfast, we have lunch,

1000
00:54:25,920 --> 00:54:29,320
Speaker 1: and after lunch, the rest of the guys decided to

1001
00:54:29,320 --> 00:54:31,439
Speaker 1: go up to the top of this ridge behind our site.

1002
00:54:31,640 --> 00:54:33,960
Speaker 1: Um it's the highest point around on the island. And

1003
00:54:35,480 --> 00:54:37,799
Speaker 1: that's just like a rocky ridge, right yeah, but it's

1004
00:54:37,800 --> 00:54:41,440
Speaker 1: got like crowberry or what's up there. Uh, it's just

1005
00:54:42,200 --> 00:54:46,000
Speaker 1: kind of empty. There's like because like the per the creature,

1006
00:54:46,040 --> 00:54:48,160
Speaker 1: the wines that being up there is up there for

1007
00:54:48,200 --> 00:54:51,680
Speaker 1: a reason. Is it grazing at berries. I didn't see

1008
00:54:51,680 --> 00:54:54,719
Speaker 1: any berries. I don't know exactly what it was doing

1009
00:54:54,800 --> 00:54:56,640
Speaker 1: up there, if it was just kind of roaming looking

1010
00:54:56,680 --> 00:55:02,480
Speaker 1: for berries, you know. But yeah, it's it's um even

1011
00:55:02,560 --> 00:55:05,200
Speaker 1: more stark landscape than the camp site that we had,

1012
00:55:05,280 --> 00:55:06,920
Speaker 1: which he says, like a lot of like bear Rock

1013
00:55:07,040 --> 00:55:09,440
Speaker 1: up there. Yeah, bear Rock. It's kind of like you know,

1014
00:55:09,560 --> 00:55:12,160
Speaker 1: the summit and you're but it's a big gass island

1015
00:55:12,440 --> 00:55:14,520
Speaker 1: right in a fresh water lake. How big is the island?

1016
00:55:15,440 --> 00:55:17,960
Speaker 1: I think it's five miles And what is the bear

1017
00:55:18,080 --> 00:55:21,319
Speaker 1: doing out there? I don't know. That's a that's one

1018
00:55:21,360 --> 00:55:24,279
Speaker 1: of the mysteries. And there's like muskox the island. Yeah,

1019
00:55:25,200 --> 00:55:29,160
Speaker 1: in a freshwater lake. It's so weird. Yeah, well I imagine, uh,

1020
00:55:29,440 --> 00:55:31,919
Speaker 1: you know, when it's iced over a lot of the years,

1021
00:55:31,960 --> 00:55:33,759
Speaker 1: so it's easy for things to get back and forth.

1022
00:55:33,800 --> 00:55:36,759
Speaker 1: But I imagine they are getting the shore too. He

1023
00:55:37,120 --> 00:55:39,280
Speaker 1: doesn't give a ship he'll slim, but the most muscox

1024
00:55:39,280 --> 00:55:41,600
Speaker 1: will slim too. But right, yeah, I wasn't think about yeah,

1025
00:55:41,680 --> 00:55:43,960
Speaker 1: just they crossing on the ice, but thinking about it. Yeah,

1026
00:55:44,239 --> 00:55:46,440
Speaker 1: So when these are little like bears, I get being

1027
00:55:46,440 --> 00:55:49,000
Speaker 1: afraid of you guys are a little afraid of Muskox. Yeah,

1028
00:55:49,120 --> 00:55:51,399
Speaker 1: like real afraid of muskok there. You gotta respect them.

1029
00:55:51,760 --> 00:55:55,080
Speaker 1: I mean, there's they are ornery and powerful animals. They

1030
00:55:55,120 --> 00:55:58,120
Speaker 1: can fight off a grizzly attack. They've got this helmet

1031
00:55:58,160 --> 00:56:02,160
Speaker 1: of horns and uh it's just like this bone plate

1032
00:56:02,280 --> 00:56:03,800
Speaker 1: at the top of their head and then the horns

1033
00:56:03,880 --> 00:56:08,640
Speaker 1: curl around and these kind of Viking style uh helmets,

1034
00:56:09,000 --> 00:56:13,680
Speaker 1: and um, they'll mess you up and they'll charge it random.

1035
00:56:13,719 --> 00:56:15,160
Speaker 1: What does it take to set them off? I was

1036
00:56:15,200 --> 00:56:18,160
Speaker 1: just gonna ask you. I mean, if you're getting too

1037
00:56:18,200 --> 00:56:20,239
Speaker 1: close for comfort pretty much, you know, if you get

1038
00:56:20,280 --> 00:56:22,160
Speaker 1: if you get too close to them, they're like, hey,

1039
00:56:22,239 --> 00:56:24,760
Speaker 1: get out of my business. Sure, but then you'd probably

1040
00:56:24,800 --> 00:56:28,040
Speaker 1: want to I mean you just keep your distance. But yeah,

1041
00:56:28,040 --> 00:56:30,440
Speaker 1: but then they show up in your camp. Yeah, sometimes

1042
00:56:30,920 --> 00:56:33,480
Speaker 1: it's not up to you or they just kind of

1043
00:56:33,560 --> 00:56:35,520
Speaker 1: like come out of come out of nowhere, which is

1044
00:56:35,560 --> 00:56:41,279
Speaker 1: what happened for us, and hollering and pan clanging. They're

1045
00:56:41,280 --> 00:56:43,120
Speaker 1: just gonna come a graze and your camp I guess.

1046
00:56:43,239 --> 00:56:45,440
Speaker 1: I mean that was the only time that that they

1047
00:56:45,480 --> 00:56:48,920
Speaker 1: were like just didn't care about us. They just kept coming.

1048
00:56:49,480 --> 00:56:52,359
Speaker 1: Was later later that day on that lay over day. Um.

1049
00:56:52,880 --> 00:56:55,080
Speaker 1: But otherwise they like they would take note of us

1050
00:56:55,680 --> 00:56:58,200
Speaker 1: and like stare us down and say, hey, go about

1051
00:56:58,280 --> 00:57:00,360
Speaker 1: your business, go the other way, or they look at

1052
00:57:00,440 --> 00:57:03,320
Speaker 1: us and turn away on their own. But um, I

1053
00:57:03,360 --> 00:57:05,759
Speaker 1: don't think there's a lot of thinking that's going on necessarily.

1054
00:57:07,360 --> 00:57:11,280
Speaker 1: They're just kind of really slow plotting and and grazing,

1055
00:57:11,400 --> 00:57:14,759
Speaker 1: and you know, they're just straight out of the ice age.

1056
00:57:14,760 --> 00:57:17,760
Speaker 1: I don't think they've changed very buffalo like. Yeah, if

1057
00:57:17,800 --> 00:57:19,280
Speaker 1: you think about it, and I think you should probably

1058
00:57:19,320 --> 00:57:22,480
Speaker 1: treat them like you treat buffalo. Yeah, yeah, exactly. You know,

1059
00:57:22,520 --> 00:57:24,600
Speaker 1: you shouldn't go up and feed him when you're in

1060
00:57:24,640 --> 00:57:27,320
Speaker 1: the parks because kids on top of them plenty of

1061
00:57:27,480 --> 00:57:30,760
Speaker 1: videos on what happens when you do that. So so

1062
00:57:30,840 --> 00:57:32,800
Speaker 1: you guys have the layover day, You're eating a whole

1063
00:57:32,800 --> 00:57:36,360
Speaker 1: shipload of food. Yep, yep. Everybody's like, let's go up

1064
00:57:36,360 --> 00:57:38,720
Speaker 1: to the top of the ridge yep. And you say,

1065
00:57:38,960 --> 00:57:41,280
Speaker 1: I'm gonna have a nap. Yeah, I'm tired and I'm

1066
00:57:41,280 --> 00:57:43,120
Speaker 1: a little tuckered. I'm gonna take a nap. You guys

1067
00:57:43,160 --> 00:57:45,440
Speaker 1: do your thing. I'm gonna hang out here. So I

1068
00:57:45,560 --> 00:57:48,040
Speaker 1: retreat to the tent and curl up in my sleeping

1069
00:57:48,120 --> 00:57:49,880
Speaker 1: bag and they go up to the top of the

1070
00:57:50,000 --> 00:57:52,120
Speaker 1: ridge and how far off? So many yards up as

1071
00:57:52,160 --> 00:57:56,040
Speaker 1: the ridge it's about a hundred feet of like steep

1072
00:57:56,200 --> 00:58:01,160
Speaker 1: climb pretty much elevation game. Yeah, yeah, well roughly like

1073
00:58:01,560 --> 00:58:03,560
Speaker 1: how many yards? How many yards? So it's a hundred

1074
00:58:03,560 --> 00:58:06,240
Speaker 1: feet is steep, so it's not it doesn't take that long,

1075
00:58:06,320 --> 00:58:08,320
Speaker 1: like how long has hate to climb up there? About

1076
00:58:08,360 --> 00:58:10,360
Speaker 1: ten minutes because you got to kind of scramble back

1077
00:58:10,400 --> 00:58:15,520
Speaker 1: and forth. So yeah, yeah, and I mean it's probably

1078
00:58:15,560 --> 00:58:19,200
Speaker 1: like forty five degree slope um and steeper in places,

1079
00:58:19,600 --> 00:58:21,760
Speaker 1: but yeah, you gotta like trick your way up. Yeah,

1080
00:58:21,880 --> 00:58:24,680
Speaker 1: and it's kind of chausy, you know, there's like scree

1081
00:58:24,800 --> 00:58:29,000
Speaker 1: and some grass m So you know, I've heard that term,

1082
00:58:29,040 --> 00:58:30,960
Speaker 1: but I don't use that term. Do you know what

1083
00:58:31,080 --> 00:58:35,240
Speaker 1: it means? You know that it means broken up unsafe rock. Yeah,

1084
00:58:35,280 --> 00:58:39,200
Speaker 1: it's like crumbling the term right, yeah, like screw would

1085
00:58:39,200 --> 00:58:42,280
Speaker 1: be a bigger you don't want to climb. Yeah, you

1086
00:58:42,320 --> 00:58:43,880
Speaker 1: know what I think you know, who introduced me to

1087
00:58:44,000 --> 00:58:47,800
Speaker 1: that word is dirt myth that could that Yeah, big

1088
00:58:47,840 --> 00:58:50,080
Speaker 1: climber buddy of ours, so nice. Yeah, but he uses

1089
00:58:50,840 --> 00:58:53,160
Speaker 1: like just you know, like just like that, he'll talk about,

1090
00:58:53,280 --> 00:58:55,120
Speaker 1: we'll talk about picking our way up through something. He

1091
00:58:55,160 --> 00:58:57,560
Speaker 1: would say, he'll say that word, I belire, what's that?

1092
00:58:57,640 --> 00:59:02,360
Speaker 1: Because just as all it's not good, there's no integrity. Yeah, rotten.

1093
00:59:02,840 --> 00:59:07,400
Speaker 1: Let me start calling certain people chausey there you go? Um, okay,

1094
00:59:07,760 --> 00:59:11,000
Speaker 1: so you climb on up there. You know they all

1095
00:59:11,040 --> 00:59:14,760
Speaker 1: climb on up there. Yep, you go, sleeping, yep, snoozing?

1096
00:59:15,320 --> 00:59:18,800
Speaker 1: You sleep how long? I didn't know how long? And

1097
00:59:19,000 --> 00:59:20,800
Speaker 1: recently I was talking to Mike, one of the other

1098
00:59:20,920 --> 00:59:23,320
Speaker 1: guys on the trip. Your friends, all these dude, still

1099
00:59:23,920 --> 00:59:26,000
Speaker 1: I don't get to talk with all of them, just

1100
00:59:26,040 --> 00:59:28,440
Speaker 1: because you know, life takes you different places. But yeah,

1101
00:59:28,480 --> 00:59:30,840
Speaker 1: I keep in touch with with most of them. Um,

1102
00:59:31,200 --> 00:59:34,480
Speaker 1: so yeah, good good guys. You gotta screw your trip.

1103
00:59:37,000 --> 00:59:41,440
Speaker 1: I didn't try to. Yeah, it changed, it changed significantly

1104
00:59:41,480 --> 00:59:44,320
Speaker 1: at that point. Um. But yeah, they all went up there,

1105
00:59:44,600 --> 00:59:49,080
Speaker 1: and uh and Mike said, yeah, three hours, they're up

1106
00:59:49,120 --> 00:59:50,880
Speaker 1: there three hours. So I was napping for three hours.

1107
00:59:51,320 --> 00:59:54,200
Speaker 1: What are they doing? Taking pictures, taking pictures, hanging out

1108
00:59:54,280 --> 00:59:57,120
Speaker 1: reading books? And he didn't notice it. Grizzly, No, I mean,

1109
00:59:57,200 --> 00:59:59,080
Speaker 1: that's what's crazy. That's That's one of the things that's

1110
00:59:59,120 --> 01:00:01,120
Speaker 1: totally crazy. When I was reading the book, I'm like, oh,

1111
01:00:01,120 --> 01:00:03,640
Speaker 1: I'm gonna get Five guys are up there mosing around

1112
01:00:03,720 --> 01:00:07,600
Speaker 1: and no one takes note of on an island, Right,

1113
01:00:07,920 --> 01:00:10,960
Speaker 1: that's one of the that's not it's five miles long though. Yeah,

1114
01:00:11,080 --> 01:00:14,680
Speaker 1: but that's one of the things that's super just weird, right,

1115
01:00:14,960 --> 01:00:17,400
Speaker 1: I mean, five guys, they're all kind of you know,

1116
01:00:17,440 --> 01:00:19,720
Speaker 1: they're not all focused on one thing. It's not like

1117
01:00:19,760 --> 01:00:21,800
Speaker 1: they're up there filet and fish and paying no attention

1118
01:00:21,840 --> 01:00:26,480
Speaker 1: to what's around him. That's when the fems join. Yeah,

1119
01:00:26,520 --> 01:00:28,840
Speaker 1: I know. They the farm said, you know, we said

1120
01:00:28,880 --> 01:00:31,800
Speaker 1: by to them that morning. They stopped by and um

1121
01:00:33,120 --> 01:00:35,600
Speaker 1: and uh went on their way and we said see you.

1122
01:00:35,840 --> 01:00:37,240
Speaker 1: We're you're not going to see you for the rest

1123
01:00:37,240 --> 01:00:38,480
Speaker 1: of the trip because you're gonna be a full day

1124
01:00:38,480 --> 01:00:42,240
Speaker 1: ahead of us. So um. But the guys were up

1125
01:00:42,280 --> 01:00:45,080
Speaker 1: on the top of this ridge for three hours. It's

1126
01:00:45,120 --> 01:00:48,720
Speaker 1: the highest point around. There's no trees anywhere that you

1127
01:00:48,760 --> 01:00:51,160
Speaker 1: can see. You can probably see thirty fifty miles in

1128
01:00:51,280 --> 01:00:54,520
Speaker 1: every direction. It's like a dome of rock. Yeah. Yeah,

1129
01:00:54,840 --> 01:00:57,480
Speaker 1: can you see down to the water's edge, No, trees

1130
01:00:57,560 --> 01:01:02,000
Speaker 1: to not not in the direction towards camp, not in

1131
01:01:02,040 --> 01:01:04,160
Speaker 1: the direction towards where we were camped, but you can

1132
01:01:04,200 --> 01:01:07,360
Speaker 1: see like that, you can see towards away from us.

1133
01:01:08,520 --> 01:01:10,560
Speaker 1: You could see towards where the bear would have been

1134
01:01:10,640 --> 01:01:15,200
Speaker 1: coming from. What I mean, Stuff Stuff vanishes, man, It's

1135
01:01:15,200 --> 01:01:17,920
Speaker 1: sounded some little crevice or behind a boulder or whatever.

1136
01:01:18,000 --> 01:01:19,880
Speaker 1: There was a lot of debris up there. In terms

1137
01:01:19,920 --> 01:01:21,120
Speaker 1: of I don't want to make too much at that

1138
01:01:21,160 --> 01:01:23,400
Speaker 1: point of it, but just interesting because you wake up

1139
01:01:23,440 --> 01:01:25,840
Speaker 1: and grab your camp just to make a point of it.

1140
01:01:25,960 --> 01:01:28,080
Speaker 1: It's like we've walked him around the mountains for ten

1141
01:01:28,160 --> 01:01:30,200
Speaker 1: days at a time looking for him, and that I

1142
01:01:30,280 --> 01:01:33,040
Speaker 1: can't find them, so right, So I mean you know that,

1143
01:01:33,200 --> 01:01:35,400
Speaker 1: but you know that kind of underlines the point of

1144
01:01:35,520 --> 01:01:38,440
Speaker 1: like why didn't we expect to see one up there?

1145
01:01:38,560 --> 01:01:42,560
Speaker 1: Because people were there a few minutes before I showed

1146
01:01:42,640 --> 01:01:44,200
Speaker 1: up there. Because you wake up from your nap and

1147
01:01:44,240 --> 01:01:46,440
Speaker 1: you grab a little pelican case. The pelican case plays

1148
01:01:46,480 --> 01:01:49,160
Speaker 1: into this. You have a pelican case, your camera gear yea,

1149
01:01:49,560 --> 01:01:52,280
Speaker 1: and go up and catch them on the way down. Yeah.

1150
01:01:52,680 --> 01:01:54,600
Speaker 1: So I wake up and I'm like, oh man, I

1151
01:01:54,640 --> 01:01:57,200
Speaker 1: gotta get up to this ridge. I overslept because apparently

1152
01:01:57,360 --> 01:01:58,960
Speaker 1: you gotta you know, I had I had someone to

1153
01:01:59,000 --> 01:02:02,160
Speaker 1: meet and I didn't know it. It. Got up, grabbed

1154
01:02:02,240 --> 01:02:05,800
Speaker 1: my pelican case which had my camera in its sense

1155
01:02:05,880 --> 01:02:08,160
Speaker 1: of like having like slept too long and now your

1156
01:02:08,160 --> 01:02:10,920
Speaker 1: schedules messed up. Yeah, the sense of urgency like I

1157
01:02:11,360 --> 01:02:13,640
Speaker 1: need to get up there. And Mike was saying that

1158
01:02:13,760 --> 01:02:16,680
Speaker 1: he kind of had the same thing about coming down, right,

1159
01:02:17,200 --> 01:02:21,280
Speaker 1: we should leave, which is weird. Um, I don't know

1160
01:02:21,400 --> 01:02:25,200
Speaker 1: sixth cents or something, but yeah, so I get my stuff,

1161
01:02:25,320 --> 01:02:29,280
Speaker 1: I um start climbing up the ridge. Dan our guide

1162
01:02:29,400 --> 01:02:31,920
Speaker 1: is the he's the last one coming down. I met

1163
01:02:32,000 --> 01:02:34,200
Speaker 1: him halfway and talked about what was up there, and

1164
01:02:34,880 --> 01:02:37,240
Speaker 1: he's like, yeah, there's in a knook shook and um,

1165
01:02:38,040 --> 01:02:41,160
Speaker 1: you know, it's just gorgeous, like explaining to take a look.

1166
01:02:41,360 --> 01:02:44,800
Speaker 1: A nook shook is a stack of rocks um left

1167
01:02:44,840 --> 01:02:47,280
Speaker 1: by um in this case you know Inuit or native

1168
01:02:47,360 --> 01:02:50,560
Speaker 1: people's um. It's used as like a place marker or

1169
01:02:50,800 --> 01:02:54,440
Speaker 1: a navigational aid, or to commemorate something. UM. Some of

1170
01:02:54,480 --> 01:02:59,040
Speaker 1: them are used like four hunting um, so they would

1171
01:02:59,600 --> 01:03:01,920
Speaker 1: set up almost like a funnel, kind of imagined like

1172
01:03:01,960 --> 01:03:04,280
Speaker 1: a fish, yeah, drive line or a fish trap in

1173
01:03:04,640 --> 01:03:08,880
Speaker 1: in rows um to a narrower points they'd like drive

1174
01:03:08,960 --> 01:03:12,200
Speaker 1: caribou herds towards. That is my understanding. I've seen some

1175
01:03:12,280 --> 01:03:13,840
Speaker 1: of those, and you guys are countering a lot of

1176
01:03:13,920 --> 01:03:17,240
Speaker 1: like old mysterious rock structures all over to your trip,

1177
01:03:17,520 --> 01:03:20,520
Speaker 1: which was amazing, um and a constant reminder that we

1178
01:03:20,560 --> 01:03:23,480
Speaker 1: weren't the first people there by any means. Um. So,

1179
01:03:23,680 --> 01:03:26,240
Speaker 1: this was just a soul m a soul knook shook

1180
01:03:26,280 --> 01:03:28,960
Speaker 1: that was up there, so um, we weren't sure exactly

1181
01:03:29,000 --> 01:03:30,400
Speaker 1: what it was, but it was, you know, the highest

1182
01:03:30,440 --> 01:03:32,000
Speaker 1: point around somebody. It was just kind of marking that

1183
01:03:32,080 --> 01:03:35,880
Speaker 1: as a special spot. Um. So I talked with Dan

1184
01:03:35,960 --> 01:03:38,040
Speaker 1: and then continued up the ridge, made my way to

1185
01:03:38,120 --> 01:03:41,680
Speaker 1: the top where it flattened out to these rolling rocky

1186
01:03:42,040 --> 01:03:46,120
Speaker 1: granite domes with the gravel and whatever, and just was

1187
01:03:46,240 --> 01:03:49,760
Speaker 1: walking up, um, away from camp, towards that a knook shook,

1188
01:03:50,200 --> 01:03:54,520
Speaker 1: and uh, walking up one side of one of those domes,

1189
01:03:54,640 --> 01:03:57,600
Speaker 1: and I didn't know it, but a six pound barren

1190
01:03:57,680 --> 01:04:00,040
Speaker 1: ground grizzly bear was walking up the other side of

1191
01:04:00,120 --> 01:04:01,920
Speaker 1: that dome and we were walking straight towards each other,

1192
01:04:02,680 --> 01:04:05,720
Speaker 1: and you first register its presence. How I see this

1193
01:04:05,920 --> 01:04:09,720
Speaker 1: flash of brown fur at the edge at the lip

1194
01:04:10,120 --> 01:04:13,720
Speaker 1: and it's in my peripheral vision and my head snaps

1195
01:04:13,800 --> 01:04:17,480
Speaker 1: up and I'm just like, there's something here, and I

1196
01:04:17,560 --> 01:04:20,560
Speaker 1: think it's a musk oxen. Oh ship, this is a

1197
01:04:20,640 --> 01:04:23,360
Speaker 1: musk oxen. And this is thirty feet away from me.

1198
01:04:24,000 --> 01:04:27,560
Speaker 1: So it's just way too close to be to any

1199
01:04:28,080 --> 01:04:31,360
Speaker 1: animal that you've got to be careful of. And as

1200
01:04:31,440 --> 01:04:33,760
Speaker 1: soon as it kept walking, because it hadn't noticed me

1201
01:04:33,800 --> 01:04:37,000
Speaker 1: yet because I was above its sightline, um, but as

1202
01:04:37,080 --> 01:04:39,920
Speaker 1: soon as it came a little further, it noticed me too.

1203
01:04:40,360 --> 01:04:42,600
Speaker 1: And that's when I realized that it wasn't a musk oxen,

1204
01:04:42,640 --> 01:04:44,680
Speaker 1: but it was a bear. And it was just like

1205
01:04:45,520 --> 01:04:49,760
Speaker 1: worst case scenario. Oh shit, why do you why do

1206
01:04:49,840 --> 01:04:52,480
Speaker 1: you feel that you know how much the bear weight? Um?

1207
01:04:52,760 --> 01:04:57,000
Speaker 1: I made that estimate based on looking at bears uh

1208
01:04:57,320 --> 01:05:00,760
Speaker 1: in captivity Since then, Yeah, so I into looking at

1209
01:05:00,800 --> 01:05:04,120
Speaker 1: things with known waits. Yeah, so part of my um

1210
01:05:05,600 --> 01:05:10,640
Speaker 1: uh self prescribed UM getting over that. This whole situation

1211
01:05:10,800 --> 01:05:14,160
Speaker 1: was like to confront that fear and UM for me,

1212
01:05:14,280 --> 01:05:17,320
Speaker 1: that was going and you know, seeing grizzly bears in person, UM,

1213
01:05:17,560 --> 01:05:21,000
Speaker 1: so that was a challenge. But uh, seeing those bears

1214
01:05:21,040 --> 01:05:23,520
Speaker 1: in in Zoos, I was like, Okay, well that looks

1215
01:05:23,520 --> 01:05:26,400
Speaker 1: a lot like my bear. So it's totally totally in

1216
01:05:26,520 --> 01:05:28,640
Speaker 1: estment based on that. And when it sees you, it

1217
01:05:28,760 --> 01:05:31,680
Speaker 1: doesn't immediately be like I'm gonna mall that, dude. No,

1218
01:05:32,000 --> 01:05:33,840
Speaker 1: the bearon I really had the same reaction, which was

1219
01:05:34,200 --> 01:05:37,120
Speaker 1: what the hell am I looking at? And so we

1220
01:05:37,280 --> 01:05:40,000
Speaker 1: both just stopped and like kind of stepped back and

1221
01:05:40,360 --> 01:05:43,800
Speaker 1: and appraised the situation for a moment. And during that time,

1222
01:05:45,080 --> 01:05:46,880
Speaker 1: I flashed back to that training that we had at

1223
01:05:46,920 --> 01:05:51,040
Speaker 1: min O gin I. I told myself not to run,

1224
01:05:51,200 --> 01:05:53,320
Speaker 1: because that's the one thing that you really can't do,

1225
01:05:53,520 --> 01:05:59,080
Speaker 1: is run. And I pictured the bear mace, which we've

1226
01:06:00,200 --> 01:06:03,120
Speaker 1: discussed was in the tent. Unfortunately it wasn't my person,

1227
01:06:03,240 --> 01:06:06,200
Speaker 1: which means it's totally useless. But I imagine taking it

1228
01:06:06,240 --> 01:06:09,560
Speaker 1: out of its holster, taking off the safety cap, aiming

1229
01:06:09,640 --> 01:06:12,480
Speaker 1: it and firing it, And would have would have been

1230
01:06:12,480 --> 01:06:13,840
Speaker 1: able to do that if I'd had it with me.

1231
01:06:14,080 --> 01:06:18,240
Speaker 1: You feel pretty confident and still staring at you, yep,

1232
01:06:18,680 --> 01:06:21,320
Speaker 1: I mean it would filled his eyeballs. Yeah, time was

1233
01:06:21,400 --> 01:06:24,720
Speaker 1: moving fast, but uh, you know it was like, you

1234
01:06:24,760 --> 01:06:26,800
Speaker 1: think you would have fired it immediately or would you

1235
01:06:26,880 --> 01:06:30,280
Speaker 1: have waited for the first charge. That's a good question.

1236
01:06:30,640 --> 01:06:33,720
Speaker 1: I would have mm hmmm. I would have waited for

1237
01:06:33,760 --> 01:06:38,360
Speaker 1: it to run away before firing it. Run away, hopefully

1238
01:06:39,320 --> 01:06:42,040
Speaker 1: run towards you. You mean no run well sorry, yeah,

1239
01:06:42,240 --> 01:06:44,800
Speaker 1: let me correct myself. I would have been ready to

1240
01:06:44,920 --> 01:06:48,600
Speaker 1: fire and then decided whether to fire based on if

1241
01:06:48,640 --> 01:06:50,720
Speaker 1: it ran away or ran towards me. What are you

1242
01:06:50,800 --> 01:06:53,160
Speaker 1: supposed to do? Are you supposed to kind of do

1243
01:06:53,320 --> 01:06:58,800
Speaker 1: the first aggressive like worn off if there's enough distance?

1244
01:06:58,840 --> 01:07:03,680
Speaker 1: Are you because I wouldn't a bear staring at you

1245
01:07:04,320 --> 01:07:11,360
Speaker 1: your hands up, look big, don't run hey hey, like

1246
01:07:12,760 --> 01:07:17,920
Speaker 1: but not to be trifled with, and you spray oh well, well,

1247
01:07:17,960 --> 01:07:20,160
Speaker 1: and then you know window if I felt like if

1248
01:07:20,440 --> 01:07:23,880
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, as this guy he didn't have

1249
01:07:23,960 --> 01:07:27,680
Speaker 1: his bears, having had bear spray att, I would probably

1250
01:07:27,720 --> 01:07:29,800
Speaker 1: hit it right away, right, I mean, what do you

1251
01:07:30,000 --> 01:07:32,320
Speaker 1: because you got several seconds, I would blast. I would

1252
01:07:32,360 --> 01:07:33,919
Speaker 1: just shoot a blast. I'd like to think I would

1253
01:07:34,680 --> 01:07:37,400
Speaker 1: like they got you know, I remember Joe Rogan, we're

1254
01:07:37,400 --> 01:07:40,160
Speaker 1: talking one time, and he said, everybody has a plan

1255
01:07:40,240 --> 01:07:43,280
Speaker 1: to get punched in the face right. That changes the

1256
01:07:43,320 --> 01:07:46,160
Speaker 1: game a bit. So the guys are always on top

1257
01:07:46,160 --> 01:07:49,640
Speaker 1: about what I would do. Yeah, yeah, well yead you

1258
01:07:49,720 --> 01:07:51,200
Speaker 1: had to wear with all the smack one with a

1259
01:07:51,240 --> 01:07:54,320
Speaker 1: track and pull. Yeah, it was charging him. I heard that.

1260
01:07:54,560 --> 01:07:57,479
Speaker 1: I didn't hear the details. God, I think I would

1261
01:07:57,480 --> 01:07:59,800
Speaker 1: have a heart attack before you have thirty ft check

1262
01:07:59,840 --> 01:08:05,880
Speaker 1: and I don't get here's the bear. You guys are

1263
01:08:05,920 --> 01:08:09,360
Speaker 1: both like, holy ship, that's scary, and you start doing

1264
01:08:09,400 --> 01:08:13,440
Speaker 1: every yelling, not not exactly at first. So our training

1265
01:08:14,000 --> 01:08:18,599
Speaker 1: basically is grizzly bears, get small, make yourself non threatening, um,

1266
01:08:18,880 --> 01:08:23,240
Speaker 1: black bears, make yourself threatening, like assert your dominance. Is

1267
01:08:23,280 --> 01:08:26,960
Speaker 1: the training that we've had UM for our area. So

1268
01:08:27,280 --> 01:08:28,840
Speaker 1: it sounds like that differs a little bit from what

1269
01:08:29,200 --> 01:08:34,280
Speaker 1: you've been told, not mean what I'm like, we've effectively

1270
01:08:34,920 --> 01:08:38,960
Speaker 1: run off, Like we effectively run off a lot of

1271
01:08:39,080 --> 01:08:42,400
Speaker 1: bears that were in that kind of like curious coming

1272
01:08:42,439 --> 01:08:48,439
Speaker 1: towards you. Sure by, hey bear, Hey bear, arms up.

1273
01:08:48,520 --> 01:08:50,800
Speaker 1: If there's multiple people, get hold together, just look like

1274
01:08:51,120 --> 01:08:54,040
Speaker 1: you're not coming at it. But I'm here. What you're

1275
01:08:54,120 --> 01:08:59,880
Speaker 1: like not a caribou calf? Yeah? Interesting, But you know again,

1276
01:09:00,160 --> 01:09:02,040
Speaker 1: i's got planned to get punched in the face. Yeah,

1277
01:09:02,080 --> 01:09:04,640
Speaker 1: and every situation is different, you know, every bear is

1278
01:09:04,640 --> 01:09:08,600
Speaker 1: going to react a little bit differently to various stimuli.

1279
01:09:08,920 --> 01:09:12,920
Speaker 1: So sure, yeah, Like I there's nothing worse than a

1280
01:09:13,080 --> 01:09:18,280
Speaker 1: than what I do quarterback bear blowhard. So please do

1281
01:09:18,400 --> 01:09:20,400
Speaker 1: not think I'm laying now. No, no, I'm not. And

1282
01:09:20,720 --> 01:09:23,639
Speaker 1: what you did is what you did and you're sitting

1283
01:09:23,680 --> 01:09:26,280
Speaker 1: here right now. Yeah. So so part of our training,

1284
01:09:26,640 --> 01:09:29,639
Speaker 1: like I said, with grizzlies is basically like to convey

1285
01:09:29,760 --> 01:09:32,559
Speaker 1: that you're not a threat, and that is backing way slowly,

1286
01:09:32,640 --> 01:09:35,560
Speaker 1: avoiding eye contact, talking to the bear kind of to

1287
01:09:35,680 --> 01:09:38,160
Speaker 1: your point, making it, making it understand that you're not.

1288
01:09:39,080 --> 01:09:42,760
Speaker 1: It's usual. Uh, I think it's going to run into

1289
01:09:43,360 --> 01:09:46,920
Speaker 1: and so in my brain, I've got all these different

1290
01:09:47,040 --> 01:09:50,519
Speaker 1: steps kind of running through my mind, um on what

1291
01:09:50,720 --> 01:09:54,040
Speaker 1: I'm supposed to do, and again just really wanting to run.

1292
01:09:54,400 --> 01:09:56,360
Speaker 1: I don't want to be anywhere near it, but I

1293
01:09:56,439 --> 01:10:00,599
Speaker 1: can't do that, So I just start back in away slowly,

1294
01:10:01,240 --> 01:10:04,479
Speaker 1: arms kind of down at my side. Hey bear, wool bear,

1295
01:10:04,840 --> 01:10:08,560
Speaker 1: it's okay, bear, And my voice is shaking, and the

1296
01:10:08,680 --> 01:10:11,320
Speaker 1: bear is he's thinking about it. He's thinking about it.

1297
01:10:11,360 --> 01:10:15,200
Speaker 1: He's looking at me. It doesn't take very long at all, um,

1298
01:10:15,320 --> 01:10:18,160
Speaker 1: and he goes into like a stationary bluff charge. So

1299
01:10:18,200 --> 01:10:21,160
Speaker 1: he launches on his front positively and grunts at me.

1300
01:10:21,520 --> 01:10:24,519
Speaker 1: He's making a lot of noise, right, yeah, yeah, and

1301
01:10:24,920 --> 01:10:27,000
Speaker 1: uh I listened to your episode with Amber. It sounds

1302
01:10:27,000 --> 01:10:29,519
Speaker 1: like she had a kind of similar uh way that

1303
01:10:29,600 --> 01:10:33,479
Speaker 1: the bear was acting before it decided to charge. Ah,

1304
01:10:34,200 --> 01:10:38,680
Speaker 1: And so grunted at me backing up slowly, and it

1305
01:10:38,800 --> 01:10:42,080
Speaker 1: basically faded from stationary bluff charges just launching onto its

1306
01:10:42,120 --> 01:10:45,040
Speaker 1: front pause to like coming towards me and then stopping

1307
01:10:45,560 --> 01:10:47,840
Speaker 1: like six ft and then ten feet, and I just

1308
01:10:47,960 --> 01:10:50,920
Speaker 1: keep backing up the bears moving six ft moving ten

1309
01:10:51,040 --> 01:10:56,519
Speaker 1: ft yeah, and half yeah bluff charges yeah, and uh,

1310
01:10:58,000 --> 01:11:00,599
Speaker 1: you know, I'm I'm reading it and goring out because

1311
01:11:00,600 --> 01:11:02,240
Speaker 1: it at first, you know, even with those bluff charges,

1312
01:11:02,320 --> 01:11:04,559
Speaker 1: it was still it still felt like it was deciding

1313
01:11:04,600 --> 01:11:09,720
Speaker 1: exactly what it was gonna do, right, yeah, exactly. And

1314
01:11:10,080 --> 01:11:13,000
Speaker 1: so I keep backing up slowly, you know, just mind

1315
01:11:13,080 --> 01:11:16,000
Speaker 1: over matter, telling myself, don't run, don't run, don't run,

1316
01:11:16,760 --> 01:11:21,000
Speaker 1: And it fades from those uh stationary and short bluff

1317
01:11:21,080 --> 01:11:23,920
Speaker 1: charges to a full speed charge and it comes at me.

1318
01:11:24,080 --> 01:11:27,080
Speaker 1: Bears can run, you know, mid thirty mile range, and

1319
01:11:27,680 --> 01:11:33,599
Speaker 1: I'd increased our thirty ft distance by five ft and uh,

1320
01:11:34,560 --> 01:11:39,680
Speaker 1: keep backing up, keep more than he's getting closer. So

1321
01:11:39,800 --> 01:11:42,280
Speaker 1: I mean his charges the brain of closer closer, closer. Yeah,

1322
01:11:42,320 --> 01:11:44,960
Speaker 1: I mean this is happening really fast and closer. He

1323
01:11:45,040 --> 01:11:47,280
Speaker 1: got you before you realize he was gonna get you.

1324
01:11:48,760 --> 01:11:55,200
Speaker 1: Uh probably like within twenty ft about fifteen, Yeah, where

1325
01:11:55,400 --> 01:11:58,840
Speaker 1: he's like like, I feel like I can see his

1326
01:11:59,360 --> 01:12:02,679
Speaker 1: decision shift to Okay, now I'm gonna Now I'm gonna

1327
01:12:02,720 --> 01:12:05,320
Speaker 1: come at this thing. And you know I faded from

1328
01:12:05,360 --> 01:12:08,920
Speaker 1: haybar Boebert, you know at this point yelling obscenities and

1329
01:12:09,080 --> 01:12:12,560
Speaker 1: help and and very likely like if the landscape, like

1330
01:12:13,040 --> 01:12:17,360
Speaker 1: quite likely the first person he's never had any kind

1331
01:12:17,360 --> 01:12:19,880
Speaker 1: of close encounter with, right, Yeah, he's trying to figure

1332
01:12:19,880 --> 01:12:22,120
Speaker 1: out what he's supposed to do. And like I don't

1333
01:12:22,120 --> 01:12:24,120
Speaker 1: know how old this bear was or people have asked,

1334
01:12:24,120 --> 01:12:25,479
Speaker 1: you know, it was a male or female, and I

1335
01:12:25,560 --> 01:12:27,160
Speaker 1: have no idea. There were no cubs. It was just

1336
01:12:27,360 --> 01:12:30,760
Speaker 1: the bear. Um, but yeah, it's just trying to figure

1337
01:12:30,800 --> 01:12:34,000
Speaker 1: out what it's supposed to do. And you know, at

1338
01:12:34,040 --> 01:12:36,960
Speaker 1: that distance fight or flight is pretty I mean it's

1339
01:12:37,040 --> 01:12:43,559
Speaker 1: kind of what color is really close bond? Uh lighter tan,

1340
01:12:43,800 --> 01:12:49,920
Speaker 1: like a little bit darker than blonde. Yeah, yeah, not

1341
01:12:50,080 --> 01:12:54,160
Speaker 1: like shaggy, but like, um, I don't know how long

1342
01:12:54,200 --> 01:12:56,160
Speaker 1: it would be, but kind of middle middle length, I'd

1343
01:12:56,160 --> 01:12:58,920
Speaker 1: say blowing in the wind, kind of a hair, a

1344
01:12:59,000 --> 01:13:00,800
Speaker 1: little bit like the tips be blown in the wind.

1345
01:13:01,200 --> 01:13:04,120
Speaker 1: You have little peaks, peaks, you know, it's not like

1346
01:13:04,240 --> 01:13:06,120
Speaker 1: hanging off. It's kind of sticking out, kind of spiky.

1347
01:13:06,479 --> 01:13:08,479
Speaker 1: So at some point at fift you see something in

1348
01:13:08,520 --> 01:13:10,800
Speaker 1: his head shift. Yeah, and then he's coming at me

1349
01:13:10,880 --> 01:13:15,719
Speaker 1: full speed and you pelt him. Well that that didn't

1350
01:13:15,760 --> 01:13:17,680
Speaker 1: happen yet. I was just like, oh, ship, this is

1351
01:13:17,680 --> 01:13:21,640
Speaker 1: gonna be this is gonna end poorly. And as it

1352
01:13:21,800 --> 01:13:24,200
Speaker 1: gets within that range, like I can feel the ground

1353
01:13:24,320 --> 01:13:26,879
Speaker 1: shaking under my feet from its pause because that gallops

1354
01:13:26,960 --> 01:13:31,160
Speaker 1: just like butom, and it's it's growling at me, and um,

1355
01:13:31,320 --> 01:13:33,400
Speaker 1: do the like do the noise? Like how loud it's

1356
01:13:33,439 --> 01:13:36,519
Speaker 1: doing the noise? I don't think I can. Okay, I'll

1357
01:13:36,560 --> 01:13:40,320
Speaker 1: do a noise. Do you tell me if it's louder Plotter, Well,

1358
01:13:40,360 --> 01:13:42,640
Speaker 1: I was louder than that louder that. Ye, did I

1359
01:13:42,680 --> 01:13:50,240
Speaker 1: have the right sound? Uh more? Projecting that sounds like

1360
01:13:50,280 --> 01:13:58,000
Speaker 1: a dude, it's hard. I remember the noise. You remember it?

1361
01:13:58,439 --> 01:14:03,120
Speaker 1: Remember the noise. Oh it was like grunting, guttural roar.

1362
01:14:03,760 --> 01:14:06,640
Speaker 1: That was like, yeah, I mean like in pulses. It

1363
01:14:06,760 --> 01:14:11,800
Speaker 1: wasn't just like NonStop, you know, it was like kind

1364
01:14:11,840 --> 01:14:15,759
Speaker 1: of sounds good. Yeah, that was good. It came to me. Okay,

1365
01:14:16,160 --> 01:14:18,720
Speaker 1: so that sounded like a series comedies gallop and the

1366
01:14:18,760 --> 01:14:21,760
Speaker 1: grounds are shaken. Yeah. Yeah. And when he's uh and

1367
01:14:21,840 --> 01:14:24,320
Speaker 1: You're like, I'm dead now, I'm dead now. And at

1368
01:14:24,360 --> 01:14:28,800
Speaker 1: this point my conscious decisions are kind of done and

1369
01:14:28,960 --> 01:14:33,040
Speaker 1: my brain is doing everything on its own. And when

1370
01:14:33,080 --> 01:14:34,680
Speaker 1: it was five or ten feet for me, I had

1371
01:14:34,720 --> 01:14:37,160
Speaker 1: that Pelican case with you know, a Nike on DSLR

1372
01:14:37,280 --> 01:14:39,400
Speaker 1: with a couple of lenses and whatever else I needed

1373
01:14:39,439 --> 01:14:41,800
Speaker 1: to run the run the camera for the whole trip.

1374
01:14:41,880 --> 01:14:45,479
Speaker 1: So it's like fifteen pounds and it's the only time

1375
01:14:45,520 --> 01:14:51,880
Speaker 1: I'll throw my camera camera. I typically don't throw it,

1376
01:14:52,160 --> 01:14:54,639
Speaker 1: uh And I was a really bad throw at the time,

1377
01:14:54,720 --> 01:14:56,960
Speaker 1: so I you know, I couldn't hit the broadside of

1378
01:14:56,960 --> 01:15:01,240
Speaker 1: a barn, but I did throw my camera practice, not

1379
01:15:01,360 --> 01:15:05,439
Speaker 1: with the same projectile. I'm a lot better thrown now though.

1380
01:15:05,920 --> 01:15:09,519
Speaker 1: Um but I wound back and threw it underhand, like

1381
01:15:09,640 --> 01:15:13,640
Speaker 1: I said, just you know, on instinct, and uh, it

1382
01:15:13,760 --> 01:15:17,000
Speaker 1: flies towards this galloping bear and it hit it square

1383
01:15:17,040 --> 01:15:19,920
Speaker 1: in the nose and with enough force to turn its

1384
01:15:19,960 --> 01:15:21,840
Speaker 1: head all the way to the side. So it pushes

1385
01:15:21,920 --> 01:15:23,760
Speaker 1: this bear's head to the side. It grunts like, oh,

1386
01:15:24,040 --> 01:15:28,320
Speaker 1: like I just punched it. Yeah, and the pelican case

1387
01:15:28,400 --> 01:15:32,040
Speaker 1: goes flying over its shoulder, tumbling off behind it. The

1388
01:15:32,080 --> 01:15:35,360
Speaker 1: bear's momentum keeps going at the same pace. Um, but

1389
01:15:35,680 --> 01:15:40,000
Speaker 1: it can't. I'm sure he didn't like that. But he

1390
01:15:40,040 --> 01:15:42,200
Speaker 1: couldn't see me for a couple of steps and like

1391
01:15:42,320 --> 01:15:45,559
Speaker 1: five to ten ft. I mean that's turned his head.

1392
01:15:46,240 --> 01:15:48,800
Speaker 1: I mean he didn't want to turn his head. The

1393
01:15:48,880 --> 01:15:52,240
Speaker 1: video that dude punching that kangaroo, Oh my god, it's

1394
01:15:52,240 --> 01:15:54,240
Speaker 1: my favorite, my kid's favorite video. Yeah, he turns his

1395
01:15:54,280 --> 01:15:57,920
Speaker 1: head on a kangaroo like slow moll like a person

1396
01:15:57,960 --> 01:16:01,160
Speaker 1: getting punched. Oh yeah, had a plan until it got

1397
01:16:01,240 --> 01:16:04,160
Speaker 1: punched in the face. Yeah, his plan was the bluff

1398
01:16:04,240 --> 01:16:07,800
Speaker 1: charge of Yeah, I didn't feel like that, which I've

1399
01:16:07,800 --> 01:16:10,840
Speaker 1: heard is how it feels. But yeah, I mean, I

1400
01:16:10,920 --> 01:16:15,600
Speaker 1: don't know if he could have stopped at that distance. No,

1401
01:16:15,840 --> 01:16:18,560
Speaker 1: his run just kept coming, his gallop kept going. But

1402
01:16:18,600 --> 01:16:20,519
Speaker 1: he couldn't see where I was, and he couldn't like

1403
01:16:20,720 --> 01:16:23,639
Speaker 1: you know, roundhouse me at that point because he didn't

1404
01:16:23,640 --> 01:16:26,240
Speaker 1: know what to hit. But I jumped out of the

1405
01:16:26,280 --> 01:16:29,439
Speaker 1: way again on instinct and dodged at like bullfighting style

1406
01:16:29,479 --> 01:16:32,680
Speaker 1: as this bears running past me and he just misses you.

1407
01:16:32,840 --> 01:16:35,120
Speaker 1: He just misses me. Yeah, I mean I just jumped

1408
01:16:35,120 --> 01:16:36,360
Speaker 1: out of the way right at the last second, like

1409
01:16:36,439 --> 01:16:38,439
Speaker 1: his momentum carried him past me. And then you know,

1410
01:16:38,520 --> 01:16:42,200
Speaker 1: his head swung around by this point, and he's flailing

1411
01:16:42,240 --> 01:16:44,040
Speaker 1: trying to get at me, and as soon as he

1412
01:16:44,240 --> 01:16:48,519
Speaker 1: passes me, he stops and change changes direction so fast,

1413
01:16:49,200 --> 01:16:51,840
Speaker 1: like faster than I would have ever imagined that an

1414
01:16:51,840 --> 01:16:56,559
Speaker 1: animal like that could move. They're incredibly powerful. Uh turns

1415
01:16:56,600 --> 01:16:59,360
Speaker 1: around and comes at me again, and I do the

1416
01:16:59,439 --> 01:17:05,360
Speaker 1: same move. Rather than throwing the camera case, it's mouths open. Uh. Yeah,

1417
01:17:05,400 --> 01:17:08,240
Speaker 1: I mean it is trying to grab your well, it

1418
01:17:08,400 --> 01:17:10,640
Speaker 1: was like half open like at the ready, right, and

1419
01:17:10,680 --> 01:17:12,360
Speaker 1: then as it would come at me, it would use

1420
01:17:12,400 --> 01:17:14,240
Speaker 1: its paws and use its jaws to try to get me.

1421
01:17:14,439 --> 01:17:16,080
Speaker 1: So it came at me again and I jumped out

1422
01:17:16,120 --> 01:17:19,880
Speaker 1: of the way and it missed me again. Clean miss

1423
01:17:20,240 --> 01:17:22,400
Speaker 1: I don't know if that one was clean. That's uh

1424
01:17:23,120 --> 01:17:26,200
Speaker 1: uh no teeth. Some claus start to hit me at that,

1425
01:17:26,479 --> 01:17:28,640
Speaker 1: you know, because these passes. But that's what let's what

1426
01:17:28,760 --> 01:17:30,600
Speaker 1: like blew me away and reading and the description is

1427
01:17:30,680 --> 01:17:35,040
Speaker 1: like it's like a very lengthy, like detailed description of Yeah,

1428
01:17:35,160 --> 01:17:36,840
Speaker 1: the fact that you could that you dodged it a

1429
01:17:36,920 --> 01:17:38,800
Speaker 1: couple of times it was crazy and it had to

1430
01:17:38,840 --> 01:17:42,200
Speaker 1: actually turn around and come back at you. Yeah. Yeah,

1431
01:17:42,439 --> 01:17:45,040
Speaker 1: so it only kind of makes it worse. I don't.

1432
01:17:45,439 --> 01:17:47,240
Speaker 1: I mean, you know it, I was like, how long

1433
01:17:47,320 --> 01:17:49,120
Speaker 1: am I gonna be able to do this? Well? Right,

1434
01:17:49,200 --> 01:17:51,040
Speaker 1: And it's like, you know, I'm not even deciding to

1435
01:17:51,120 --> 01:17:53,560
Speaker 1: do this, but as my brains thinking through it, it's like,

1436
01:17:53,600 --> 01:17:56,519
Speaker 1: holy sho it, I just dodged it. Not like it

1437
01:17:56,680 --> 01:18:00,439
Speaker 1: very acting at this point, you're not making conrect decisions. Yeah, exactly.

1438
01:18:00,520 --> 01:18:03,760
Speaker 1: I'm wearing chacos, I've got sandals on, which are like

1439
01:18:04,280 --> 01:18:06,320
Speaker 1: really nice for being nimble, but you know, my feet

1440
01:18:06,320 --> 01:18:08,400
Speaker 1: are all exposed and everything is not prepared for this.

1441
01:18:08,640 --> 01:18:12,400
Speaker 1: Did the thought of playing dead and like curling up

1442
01:18:12,439 --> 01:18:15,080
Speaker 1: into a ball and protecting vitals like to back the

1443
01:18:15,200 --> 01:18:17,920
Speaker 1: neck and your your cord. Did that ever come through

1444
01:18:18,000 --> 01:18:21,800
Speaker 1: your head? Um it, it didn't. I mean that is

1445
01:18:21,840 --> 01:18:23,439
Speaker 1: part of what you're supposed to do, like if it

1446
01:18:23,520 --> 01:18:26,160
Speaker 1: makes contact with you, you know, play dead, protect your

1447
01:18:26,320 --> 01:18:28,280
Speaker 1: like lay on your on your stomach and put your

1448
01:18:28,360 --> 01:18:30,639
Speaker 1: legs out and put your fingers in your lace behind

1449
01:18:30,680 --> 01:18:32,360
Speaker 1: your neck to protect your spine and all that stuff.

1450
01:18:32,560 --> 01:18:35,240
Speaker 1: Um which maybe it's you know, you have a plan

1451
01:18:35,320 --> 01:18:37,639
Speaker 1: until you get punched in the face sort of a scenario.

1452
01:18:37,800 --> 01:18:41,920
Speaker 1: But um it, it felt like if I did that

1453
01:18:42,000 --> 01:18:45,479
Speaker 1: then it was just gonna do some real damage. Which

1454
01:18:46,000 --> 01:18:51,360
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, I don't know, but you do get

1455
01:18:51,360 --> 01:18:53,120
Speaker 1: punched in the face. I do get punched in the face.

1456
01:18:53,160 --> 01:18:54,640
Speaker 1: So I dodge it a couple more times where I

1457
01:18:54,720 --> 01:18:57,600
Speaker 1: was able to quote successfully dodge it, meaning that it

1458
01:18:57,640 --> 01:19:01,040
Speaker 1: didn't bite me. Like you don't know, maybe you're getting

1459
01:19:01,080 --> 01:19:03,040
Speaker 1: like scratched. Oh I I know at this point that

1460
01:19:03,120 --> 01:19:05,600
Speaker 1: I'm getting scratched. You know, I feel he's hit me

1461
01:19:05,680 --> 01:19:07,680
Speaker 1: with his claws down my arm, down my back. I

1462
01:19:07,760 --> 01:19:10,000
Speaker 1: can feel it, and it feels like I'm just getting

1463
01:19:10,080 --> 01:19:13,760
Speaker 1: laid open like as soon as it hits me, but

1464
01:19:14,040 --> 01:19:16,719
Speaker 1: you know, your adrenaline's wine and at the red redline,

1465
01:19:16,760 --> 01:19:20,479
Speaker 1: and you're just moving super fast, and bears moving faster,

1466
01:19:20,600 --> 01:19:22,640
Speaker 1: and every time we got closer and closer, every time

1467
01:19:22,680 --> 01:19:26,240
Speaker 1: I dodged it. And so the next time it its

1468
01:19:26,320 --> 01:19:28,040
Speaker 1: head is now close enough where I can just like

1469
01:19:28,120 --> 01:19:30,479
Speaker 1: turn and bite my leg, and it goes to bite

1470
01:19:30,520 --> 01:19:34,960
Speaker 1: my leg and again super fast and just like we're

1471
01:19:34,960 --> 01:19:37,320
Speaker 1: all spinning around each other, and I pull my leg

1472
01:19:37,360 --> 01:19:38,600
Speaker 1: out of the way at the last second, and then

1473
01:19:38,640 --> 01:19:41,360
Speaker 1: jaws snapshot right next to my leg, and at that

1474
01:19:41,479 --> 01:19:44,719
Speaker 1: same moment, it reaches up with its paw and swipes

1475
01:19:44,760 --> 01:19:48,080
Speaker 1: me across the face and just smacks it just bam.

1476
01:19:48,960 --> 01:19:51,360
Speaker 1: Yeah you're saying it was like as hard as you

1477
01:19:51,400 --> 01:19:55,679
Speaker 1: could just ever imagine being hit. Yeah, with the flat pad.

1478
01:19:56,040 --> 01:19:58,400
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah. I saw the pad when it was a

1479
01:19:58,439 --> 01:20:00,280
Speaker 1: couple inches from my face, and it it is like

1480
01:20:00,960 --> 01:20:03,840
Speaker 1: millisecond where my brain is like oh no, And it

1481
01:20:03,960 --> 01:20:08,040
Speaker 1: was I compare it to like a board wrapped in

1482
01:20:08,160 --> 01:20:11,400
Speaker 1: leather that's just on a hydraulic arm. It's just swinging

1483
01:20:11,800 --> 01:20:14,760
Speaker 1: and when it hits my head, it just doesn't react

1484
01:20:14,800 --> 01:20:16,160
Speaker 1: at all. It's like swatting a bug out of the

1485
01:20:16,320 --> 01:20:19,400
Speaker 1: out of the out of the air and huge amount

1486
01:20:19,439 --> 01:20:21,439
Speaker 1: of power. My head whips to the side and I

1487
01:20:21,520 --> 01:20:23,760
Speaker 1: went flying to the side. And that's when I that's

1488
01:20:23,800 --> 01:20:26,680
Speaker 1: when I truly realized, like there was nothing physically that

1489
01:20:26,760 --> 01:20:29,720
Speaker 1: I could do to fight this bear. It's just so

1490
01:20:29,920 --> 01:20:36,479
Speaker 1: much Yeah, yeah, no fisticuffs And ah did that take

1491
01:20:36,520 --> 01:20:39,439
Speaker 1: you off your feet when he hits you in the face? Yeah? Clean,

1492
01:20:39,680 --> 01:20:41,800
Speaker 1: clean off my feet, like threw me to the side.

1493
01:20:42,439 --> 01:20:46,360
Speaker 1: I'm midair, and then that same paw caught me like

1494
01:20:46,439 --> 01:20:48,120
Speaker 1: around the hip and and threw me down to the

1495
01:20:48,200 --> 01:20:51,600
Speaker 1: ground on my tailbone. And then again like in that

1496
01:20:51,760 --> 01:20:54,280
Speaker 1: same motion. I'm down on the ground and its head

1497
01:20:54,400 --> 01:20:57,040
Speaker 1: is is now right at my right at my thigh.

1498
01:20:57,520 --> 01:21:01,160
Speaker 1: And people are like, so the adrenaline rush take care

1499
01:21:01,160 --> 01:21:05,439
Speaker 1: of the pain, And it didn't it. Uh. I felt

1500
01:21:05,479 --> 01:21:07,880
Speaker 1: its teeth going both sides of my leg. So he

1501
01:21:08,000 --> 01:21:11,320
Speaker 1: does open mouth all the way around your leg, top

1502
01:21:11,360 --> 01:21:17,439
Speaker 1: of my thigh. And this is where like this part

1503
01:21:17,479 --> 01:21:20,880
Speaker 1: of the stories where the playing dead thing gets really interesting. Yeah,

1504
01:21:21,479 --> 01:21:24,400
Speaker 1: because you don't play dead, no, but here he is

1505
01:21:24,439 --> 01:21:27,360
Speaker 1: he's like clearly coming to get you. Yeah, he's got

1506
01:21:27,400 --> 01:21:29,960
Speaker 1: a lot of energy into getting you. Yeah, he's hit you,

1507
01:21:30,479 --> 01:21:35,760
Speaker 1: scratched you, grabs your leg. Yeah. I've been screaming the

1508
01:21:35,960 --> 01:21:38,280
Speaker 1: you know, the last couple of passes, yelling known help,

1509
01:21:38,360 --> 01:21:44,479
Speaker 1: and and all of a sudden you blackout. Yeah, vasovagel response.

1510
01:21:45,280 --> 01:21:47,840
Speaker 1: It bites me. It's just like a switch and I'm

1511
01:21:47,880 --> 01:21:53,000
Speaker 1: out and it's just black. How time do you think

1512
01:21:53,040 --> 01:21:55,400
Speaker 1: goes by when you black out? I don't think it

1513
01:21:55,520 --> 01:21:58,320
Speaker 1: was long. But I was just so sure I was

1514
01:21:58,360 --> 01:22:02,799
Speaker 1: about to die. And it's just like this really surreal

1515
01:22:03,280 --> 01:22:07,800
Speaker 1: sensation to have the switch that saved me. I mean,

1516
01:22:07,880 --> 01:22:10,240
Speaker 1: that's what That's what it gets interesting, man, because so

1517
01:22:10,479 --> 01:22:12,840
Speaker 1: but let me let me focus on the bite a minute. Yeah.

1518
01:22:13,160 --> 01:22:16,280
Speaker 1: Um was the when he beat you and he's kind

1519
01:22:16,320 --> 01:22:19,320
Speaker 1: of like biting you at the seam of your leg. Yeah,

1520
01:22:19,520 --> 01:22:22,840
Speaker 1: right where the leg joins the hip, the pelvis right

1521
01:22:22,920 --> 01:22:27,080
Speaker 1: below that, yeah, like right in that whole junction. Scroll

1522
01:22:27,840 --> 01:22:31,000
Speaker 1: you're for moral artery, Yeah, the growing you could call

1523
01:22:31,040 --> 01:22:35,760
Speaker 1: it the groin. Yeah, yeah, um, are do you think

1524
01:22:35,880 --> 01:22:39,800
Speaker 1: like that's a fatal bite? Aren't you that clear? I

1525
01:22:39,880 --> 01:22:42,120
Speaker 1: mean to me, it was like this is the end.

1526
01:22:42,439 --> 01:22:44,640
Speaker 1: I wasn't like you know, oh, I've got all this,

1527
01:22:45,120 --> 01:22:48,200
Speaker 1: all this really crucial material there that that can be

1528
01:22:48,320 --> 01:22:50,120
Speaker 1: the end. It was just like, I am about to

1529
01:22:50,200 --> 01:22:53,000
Speaker 1: die because this will not be the only injury. This

1530
01:22:53,160 --> 01:22:57,200
Speaker 1: bear is gonna do much more to me. And yeah,

1531
01:22:57,240 --> 01:22:59,400
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna dodge it once I'm laying on the

1532
01:22:59,479 --> 01:23:03,280
Speaker 1: ground and he pass out and it pass out. And

1533
01:23:03,360 --> 01:23:07,120
Speaker 1: I played that incredibly effectively. In Michigan, we call that

1534
01:23:07,240 --> 01:23:12,040
Speaker 1: playing possum. Yeah, yep, exactly. But you know what, you

1535
01:23:12,120 --> 01:23:14,960
Speaker 1: know it's aptly named because I didn't know this until

1536
01:23:15,000 --> 01:23:19,280
Speaker 1: I was talking to our colleague Sam longern Um. Playing

1537
01:23:19,360 --> 01:23:24,639
Speaker 1: possum is not intentional. Yeah, they're not like I'll play possum.

1538
01:23:24,960 --> 01:23:29,400
Speaker 1: They like just get overwhelmed. And yeah, going to a state,

1539
01:23:29,560 --> 01:23:32,920
Speaker 1: like it's not like it's not voluntary, he goes into

1540
01:23:32,960 --> 01:23:35,560
Speaker 1: a state. Yeah, so very similar. Yeah, they become overcommon

1541
01:23:35,680 --> 01:23:38,280
Speaker 1: is going to a state. Yeah, isn't like that when

1542
01:23:38,520 --> 01:23:41,960
Speaker 1: when animals are attacked by a predator and then go

1543
01:23:42,160 --> 01:23:47,400
Speaker 1: limp And it's not that you're necessarily Yeah, it's an

1544
01:23:47,439 --> 01:23:52,439
Speaker 1: evolutionary defense mechanism. So how long did think you passed

1545
01:23:52,439 --> 01:23:55,400
Speaker 1: out for? Do you have any estimation? My estimation is

1546
01:23:55,680 --> 01:23:58,360
Speaker 1: not long at all. My total time away from camp

1547
01:23:58,479 --> 01:24:02,280
Speaker 1: was really short. Oh that's a good way. Yeah, so

1548
01:24:03,240 --> 01:24:06,120
Speaker 1: maybe not minutes. Yeah, right, it could have been less

1549
01:24:06,160 --> 01:24:09,720
Speaker 1: than minutes. In minutes. And what position do you wake

1550
01:24:09,840 --> 01:24:14,840
Speaker 1: up in? Uh? Fetal position? Face down, like degrees from

1551
01:24:15,040 --> 01:24:17,720
Speaker 1: how fetal position? Face down like some kind of yoga thing,

1552
01:24:17,840 --> 01:24:19,640
Speaker 1: or like you're on your side but your face is

1553
01:24:19,680 --> 01:24:25,160
Speaker 1: turned like child's post. Child, I want you to get

1554
01:24:25,160 --> 01:24:28,680
Speaker 1: down and show. I mean like in my mind, and

1555
01:24:28,760 --> 01:24:30,519
Speaker 1: I was a little disoriented when I came to, but

1556
01:24:30,640 --> 01:24:33,519
Speaker 1: it was just like, hey, he's down, he's rising from

1557
01:24:33,560 --> 01:24:38,120
Speaker 1: his seat, he's getting child's post. Everybody, Okay, he's on

1558
01:24:38,240 --> 01:24:40,479
Speaker 1: his knees. He's Oh really that's how you won't go

1559
01:24:40,680 --> 01:24:44,800
Speaker 1: that's child's post. But in the air. Again, that's a

1560
01:24:44,920 --> 01:24:48,599
Speaker 1: strange position to wake up in. Yeah, like that's gonna wait,

1561
01:24:48,680 --> 01:24:50,960
Speaker 1: that's like an awake But I would I thought you

1562
01:24:51,040 --> 01:24:54,160
Speaker 1: meant that you somehow we're like fetal position, Like you're

1563
01:24:54,160 --> 01:24:56,160
Speaker 1: sleeping on your side in the fetal position, but your

1564
01:24:56,200 --> 01:24:59,000
Speaker 1: face was cocked down into the tundra. Yeah, I know,

1565
01:24:59,160 --> 01:25:01,800
Speaker 1: I as as I can tell. It was that like

1566
01:25:01,880 --> 01:25:04,040
Speaker 1: curled in a ball, face down, knees and knees and

1567
01:25:04,080 --> 01:25:06,599
Speaker 1: elbows and face down to the ground and you open

1568
01:25:06,680 --> 01:25:09,599
Speaker 1: your eyes and what do you see? Uh, the world's

1569
01:25:09,640 --> 01:25:13,439
Speaker 1: kind of spinning, And then I see the horizon and

1570
01:25:13,520 --> 01:25:15,320
Speaker 1: then I see that the bear is still there, but

1571
01:25:15,479 --> 01:25:19,120
Speaker 1: it's running away at a trot, and it's checking me

1572
01:25:19,160 --> 01:25:22,000
Speaker 1: out as it goes. And at this point, I agree

1573
01:25:22,040 --> 01:25:27,200
Speaker 1: inconscious at the point when he had you like he

1574
01:25:27,520 --> 01:25:33,160
Speaker 1: had you dead to right, yep, let the feast begin. Well,

1575
01:25:33,160 --> 01:25:35,560
Speaker 1: And that's the that's the key difference between like a

1576
01:25:35,600 --> 01:25:38,400
Speaker 1: predaceous encounter and a defensive encounter. So that's what gives

1577
01:25:38,479 --> 01:25:40,800
Speaker 1: such credence to like the playing dead things. That's some

1578
01:25:41,000 --> 01:25:45,160
Speaker 1: bitch goes through all that and really, you know, like

1579
01:25:45,240 --> 01:25:47,320
Speaker 1: someone tells you something and you like don't believe. Then

1580
01:25:47,400 --> 01:25:49,519
Speaker 1: later you're like, oh no, he really didn't. Like he

1581
01:25:49,680 --> 01:25:55,720
Speaker 1: was like, I'm sorry, I found you threatening. Um had

1582
01:25:56,280 --> 01:25:59,320
Speaker 1: you stop being threatening? And I left? I mean, like,

1583
01:25:59,720 --> 01:26:04,440
Speaker 1: my yep, you seem threatening. Yeah, that's all this was exactly,

1584
01:26:04,720 --> 01:26:06,719
Speaker 1: you know, And that and that kind of a lines

1585
01:26:06,800 --> 01:26:09,200
Speaker 1: up with how it acted throughout the encounter too. It's like,

1586
01:26:09,320 --> 01:26:12,880
Speaker 1: what am I dealing with this? What do I do? Yeah?

1587
01:26:13,560 --> 01:26:16,800
Speaker 1: And also went quiet limp. But he's like, yeah, all right, drop,

1588
01:26:16,840 --> 01:26:18,640
Speaker 1: my chuck is done. I gotta go. I gotta put

1589
01:26:18,680 --> 01:26:22,960
Speaker 1: some ice on my snout from that Pelican case and

1590
01:26:23,439 --> 01:26:26,360
Speaker 1: as so, and you like you don't know, I mean

1591
01:26:26,400 --> 01:26:28,320
Speaker 1: he could come back and get you. Oh yeah. I

1592
01:26:28,400 --> 01:26:30,519
Speaker 1: was absolutely terrified that was about to happen. So I

1593
01:26:30,560 --> 01:26:33,320
Speaker 1: played dead consciously at that point, totally averted my eyes

1594
01:26:33,360 --> 01:26:35,240
Speaker 1: so I could just see him, wait for him to

1595
01:26:35,320 --> 01:26:37,519
Speaker 1: go completely. Like I said, he's just watching me the

1596
01:26:37,560 --> 01:26:42,240
Speaker 1: whole time. And are you feeling, um, what's your understanding

1597
01:26:42,280 --> 01:26:44,280
Speaker 1: of your injuries at this point, You're like so out

1598
01:26:44,320 --> 01:26:47,559
Speaker 1: of it. Uh my feeling my my feeling slash understanding

1599
01:26:47,640 --> 01:26:51,559
Speaker 1: is I don't care? Because I was you felt very alive. Yeah.

1600
01:26:51,680 --> 01:26:54,080
Speaker 1: I was so sure I was about to die. And

1601
01:26:54,160 --> 01:26:57,160
Speaker 1: then it was like getting a second chance, like euphoria.

1602
01:26:57,760 --> 01:27:03,280
Speaker 1: It was. Yeah. I was just totally totally fork, like

1603
01:27:03,680 --> 01:27:07,559
Speaker 1: so excited that I was seeing things again. And then

1604
01:27:07,600 --> 01:27:09,360
Speaker 1: when I saw that bear again, it was like back

1605
01:27:09,439 --> 01:27:13,400
Speaker 1: to dread. Oh ship, it's still here, Like, what's it

1606
01:27:13,439 --> 01:27:16,560
Speaker 1: gonna do now? So I just was you know, my

1607
01:27:16,680 --> 01:27:19,160
Speaker 1: mission at that point was do everything that I could

1608
01:27:19,280 --> 01:27:21,920
Speaker 1: to make it not think that I was back in

1609
01:27:22,000 --> 01:27:24,439
Speaker 1: the fight and I think that its job really was

1610
01:27:24,640 --> 01:27:26,600
Speaker 1: done and that it was able to leave. Um, but

1611
01:27:26,680 --> 01:27:28,600
Speaker 1: I was absolutely terrified. This is like, you know what,

1612
01:27:29,160 --> 01:27:32,800
Speaker 1: it needs a little bit more tossing around or whatever. Yeah,

1613
01:27:32,960 --> 01:27:35,160
Speaker 1: to go back and shake that thing and eat it. Yeah, yeah,

1614
01:27:35,320 --> 01:27:37,880
Speaker 1: which you know sometimes happens. What's weird too about it

1615
01:27:38,240 --> 01:27:42,559
Speaker 1: and about bears in general, is um, it's eating all man.

1616
01:27:42,880 --> 01:27:46,200
Speaker 1: You have to assume it's killed neaton, muskox calves, it's

1617
01:27:46,200 --> 01:27:54,520
Speaker 1: scavenge muskox carcasses, kills the neats, caribou calves, scavenges carcasses, eats, marmots,

1618
01:27:55,680 --> 01:27:57,680
Speaker 1: whatever the hell it gets hands on, right, And here

1619
01:27:57,720 --> 01:28:00,960
Speaker 1: it's got like a hundred fifty pounds. It was still

1620
01:28:01,280 --> 01:28:08,240
Speaker 1: warm protein that hasn't showered in months. Yeah, Like like

1621
01:28:08,680 --> 01:28:12,080
Speaker 1: what is their comprehension of Like two days later would

1622
01:28:12,080 --> 01:28:13,400
Speaker 1: they have gone back up there and eight you you know,

1623
01:28:13,439 --> 01:28:15,800
Speaker 1: I mean like, what is this comprehension of? Like what's food?

1624
01:28:15,920 --> 01:28:19,040
Speaker 1: Not food? It's like I killed this big thing. Yeah,

1625
01:28:19,240 --> 01:28:22,280
Speaker 1: it's made out of meat, But I will continue my

1626
01:28:22,439 --> 01:28:27,400
Speaker 1: wanderings to look for a little ground squirrels and lemmings

1627
01:28:27,520 --> 01:28:31,320
Speaker 1: and patches of berries whatever else comes around. Like that's

1628
01:28:31,360 --> 01:28:34,960
Speaker 1: not food right, Well, I mean that's the that's what's

1629
01:28:35,000 --> 01:28:37,360
Speaker 1: so like bizarre. But what is in their head? Well,

1630
01:28:37,360 --> 01:28:39,439
Speaker 1: and that's that's like why are you not food? That's

1631
01:28:39,479 --> 01:28:43,000
Speaker 1: the difference right between a healthy bear and a and

1632
01:28:43,040 --> 01:28:45,160
Speaker 1: a bear that's not getting in a food or that's sickly.

1633
01:28:45,720 --> 01:28:50,080
Speaker 1: You know, it's it looked good like this bear did

1634
01:28:50,120 --> 01:28:53,160
Speaker 1: not look scrawny. You know, it's well built. Um, you

1635
01:28:53,240 --> 01:29:00,080
Speaker 1: just didn't smell right, Yeah, I'm not. I'm not what

1636
01:29:00,160 --> 01:29:03,519
Speaker 1: it normally perceives as food. I don't you know, look

1637
01:29:03,600 --> 01:29:06,960
Speaker 1: like that. It's just it's so curious, like what makes it? Uh,

1638
01:29:08,400 --> 01:29:10,880
Speaker 1: what that decision process is? Like I have a feeling

1639
01:29:10,920 --> 01:29:14,160
Speaker 1: it relates a lot to you know, what happened before

1640
01:29:14,920 --> 01:29:18,519
Speaker 1: this situation. You know, is it is it is everything

1641
01:29:18,560 --> 01:29:20,760
Speaker 1: going well, you know for this bear or is it

1642
01:29:21,000 --> 01:29:24,760
Speaker 1: in dire straits? Is it going to use this opportunity

1643
01:29:24,880 --> 01:29:28,280
Speaker 1: to have a meal or is it just going to

1644
01:29:28,400 --> 01:29:31,080
Speaker 1: get away because you know, it wasn't looking for a

1645
01:29:31,120 --> 01:29:34,080
Speaker 1: meal or Yeah, like the something about the scenario was

1646
01:29:34,160 --> 01:29:38,120
Speaker 1: alarming enough to it and unusual enough that it just

1647
01:29:38,320 --> 01:29:40,560
Speaker 1: wasn't in a like eating mood. It was in a

1648
01:29:40,880 --> 01:29:43,920
Speaker 1: save myself, protect myself and get out of here, like

1649
01:29:44,000 --> 01:29:46,080
Speaker 1: I don't know what this is, right, I don't know

1650
01:29:46,160 --> 01:29:49,000
Speaker 1: what's going on. Yeah, here's my window of opportunity to

1651
01:29:49,040 --> 01:29:53,920
Speaker 1: get away, right, Yeah, he's as scared as you are. Yeah, exactly.

1652
01:29:54,880 --> 01:29:58,080
Speaker 1: So it turns and goes and it disappears over the

1653
01:29:58,160 --> 01:30:00,320
Speaker 1: ridge and I can't remember. I feel like thought to

1654
01:30:00,360 --> 01:30:03,920
Speaker 1: grab your camera. Yeah, for some reason, I was I

1655
01:30:04,640 --> 01:30:06,120
Speaker 1: have I had things I brought up with me. I

1656
01:30:06,160 --> 01:30:11,080
Speaker 1: gotta bring my things back that you talk. You thought

1657
01:30:11,120 --> 01:30:14,759
Speaker 1: to go get your camera. Very practical in that situation,

1658
01:30:15,439 --> 01:30:17,880
Speaker 1: as Yeah. Then I haul asked, and I'm just checking

1659
01:30:17,960 --> 01:30:19,840
Speaker 1: my six the whole time, trying to make sure that

1660
01:30:19,920 --> 01:30:21,800
Speaker 1: it's not coming back. And then you realize your feet

1661
01:30:21,840 --> 01:30:24,160
Speaker 1: are bleeding. My feet are bleeding. I didn't realize that

1662
01:30:24,240 --> 01:30:26,639
Speaker 1: until I was don't coming down the ridge to camp.

1663
01:30:26,760 --> 01:30:28,800
Speaker 1: But I knew that my leg was screwed up because

1664
01:30:29,000 --> 01:30:31,880
Speaker 1: it uh, it hurt quite a bit, and I checked

1665
01:30:31,920 --> 01:30:33,439
Speaker 1: it and thought it was covered in blood. It was

1666
01:30:33,600 --> 01:30:37,320
Speaker 1: just covering bear saliva. Turned tail and started going back

1667
01:30:37,320 --> 01:30:38,519
Speaker 1: to camp because I was like, I need to get

1668
01:30:38,560 --> 01:30:41,240
Speaker 1: back there before my adrenaline rush wears off, because I

1669
01:30:41,320 --> 01:30:45,479
Speaker 1: knew it was significantly injured I just didn't know what

1670
01:30:45,640 --> 01:30:48,280
Speaker 1: those injuries were. And you know, if I had a

1671
01:30:48,360 --> 01:30:52,240
Speaker 1: clock ticking or whatever, um, and he's gonna come back

1672
01:30:52,280 --> 01:30:54,479
Speaker 1: and kill you, right, Yeah. I definitely felt like I

1673
01:30:54,520 --> 01:30:57,240
Speaker 1: had that thing to worry about. So I needed to

1674
01:30:57,280 --> 01:30:59,320
Speaker 1: get back to the guys, back to the bear poppers,

1675
01:30:59,400 --> 01:31:02,040
Speaker 1: back to the bear spray and everything that all the

1676
01:31:02,120 --> 01:31:06,280
Speaker 1: support that I had back there. So describe the wound like,

1677
01:31:06,360 --> 01:31:08,920
Speaker 1: you get down and they strip you. Yeah, they kind

1678
01:31:08,960 --> 01:31:11,120
Speaker 1: of run up to meet you. You're screaming like holy hell.

1679
01:31:11,360 --> 01:31:14,360
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, And and so they all are starting to

1680
01:31:14,439 --> 01:31:16,120
Speaker 1: get you know, all the stuff, and and they come

1681
01:31:16,200 --> 01:31:18,040
Speaker 1: up to get me and and help carry me down

1682
01:31:18,040 --> 01:31:19,400
Speaker 1: the last little bit because by the time I got

1683
01:31:19,439 --> 01:31:22,080
Speaker 1: to the bottom, I couldn't move my leg anymore and

1684
01:31:22,680 --> 01:31:26,640
Speaker 1: I had scraped and bruises all over. Um. But the

1685
01:31:26,800 --> 01:31:29,200
Speaker 1: main wound was right at the top of my leg.

1686
01:31:29,240 --> 01:31:31,800
Speaker 1: They're one of the canines went into full depth of

1687
01:31:31,840 --> 01:31:35,519
Speaker 1: the tooth and a puncture wound right at the that

1688
01:31:36,040 --> 01:31:39,920
Speaker 1: joint between my leg and my hip girdle quarter inch

1689
01:31:40,000 --> 01:31:44,040
Speaker 1: from my femoral artery. Um that you if you hit that,

1690
01:31:44,120 --> 01:31:46,960
Speaker 1: you'd have been that's it. Yeah, I probably would have

1691
01:31:47,080 --> 01:31:50,000
Speaker 1: been no, you can't. As as you explained the book,

1692
01:31:50,000 --> 01:31:52,120
Speaker 1: you smell the complication, but there's no like immediate source

1693
01:31:52,160 --> 01:31:55,519
Speaker 1: of help, right, serious help. Yeah. And I mean even

1694
01:31:55,560 --> 01:31:57,600
Speaker 1: if there had been an immediate source of help me,

1695
01:31:57,800 --> 01:32:00,400
Speaker 1: it's like hours. Yeah. And and a fhemoral bleed is

1696
01:32:00,479 --> 01:32:04,720
Speaker 1: minutes three ish minutes, you know, good a good illustration.

1697
01:32:04,800 --> 01:32:07,080
Speaker 1: That's black Hawk down when he you know, they're trying

1698
01:32:07,120 --> 01:32:11,439
Speaker 1: to put some hemust out on the on the femoral

1699
01:32:11,520 --> 01:32:13,960
Speaker 1: bleed from that, it's just like spurting and you bleed

1700
01:32:14,000 --> 01:32:18,400
Speaker 1: out really fast. Um. So that would have been really bad.

1701
01:32:18,720 --> 01:32:21,200
Speaker 1: Right next to that puncture when that same canine had

1702
01:32:21,240 --> 01:32:25,000
Speaker 1: pushed in to the full depth but hadn't. Um, it

1703
01:32:25,120 --> 01:32:27,000
Speaker 1: wasn't a puncture when it's just a really bad compression

1704
01:32:27,000 --> 01:32:30,160
Speaker 1: when with some surface injuries. Um, that compressed all the

1705
01:32:30,240 --> 01:32:33,080
Speaker 1: tissue and did some serious damage to the muscle. Um,

1706
01:32:33,200 --> 01:32:35,240
Speaker 1: but wasn't like bleeding. And I had several more of

1707
01:32:35,280 --> 01:32:37,720
Speaker 1: those wrapping around my thigh from the other teeth, so

1708
01:32:38,280 --> 01:32:40,400
Speaker 1: the whole my whole leg had been in its mouth,

1709
01:32:40,520 --> 01:32:44,519
Speaker 1: but it was really um. Just the main puncture was

1710
01:32:44,640 --> 01:32:47,760
Speaker 1: the source of bleeding, which was super lucky because we

1711
01:32:47,760 --> 01:32:50,080
Speaker 1: were able to control it pretty well. Like I don't say, like,

1712
01:32:50,120 --> 01:32:51,560
Speaker 1: what hap did the tips of your toes? Do you

1713
01:32:51,600 --> 01:32:54,280
Speaker 1: have not have any idea? I don't Like I said,

1714
01:32:54,320 --> 01:32:57,840
Speaker 1: I was wearing sandals and the tips of my left

1715
01:32:58,840 --> 01:33:01,200
Speaker 1: big toe and the and the Jason to's are just

1716
01:33:01,320 --> 01:33:05,080
Speaker 1: like sliced clean off like evulsions. Um, that's my buddy.

1717
01:33:05,160 --> 01:33:09,040
Speaker 1: Ronnie hates sandals. He's gonna love this because he lovesn't

1718
01:33:09,040 --> 01:33:11,640
Speaker 1: like him because what if there's a volcano or you

1719
01:33:11,720 --> 01:33:14,120
Speaker 1: get attacked by her grizzily. Oh no, this is gonna

1720
01:33:14,120 --> 01:33:15,559
Speaker 1: be like, this is gonna back him off. You want

1721
01:33:15,600 --> 01:33:18,200
Speaker 1: to be nimble in that situation. We we often have

1722
01:33:18,280 --> 01:33:20,400
Speaker 1: a debate about whether sandals are okay or not because

1723
01:33:20,439 --> 01:33:22,360
Speaker 1: how you're gonna defend your family. And we got a

1724
01:33:22,439 --> 01:33:24,840
Speaker 1: great email from a guy who wanted being in a

1725
01:33:24,920 --> 01:33:27,880
Speaker 1: micro burst which like felt like two trees on his

1726
01:33:28,000 --> 01:33:30,640
Speaker 1: property and all his creating damage his house. And he

1727
01:33:30,720 --> 01:33:32,960
Speaker 1: was out in his sandals when it happened, and he

1728
01:33:33,040 --> 01:33:36,160
Speaker 1: did everything is he should do, And only later after

1729
01:33:36,280 --> 01:33:38,960
Speaker 1: this whole thing played out, someone's like, where's your shoes?

1730
01:33:39,720 --> 01:33:42,400
Speaker 1: And he realized he'd done it all barefoot. His take

1731
01:33:42,520 --> 01:33:46,320
Speaker 1: is doesn't matter when it really matters, it doesn't matter. Yep,

1732
01:33:46,760 --> 01:33:50,439
Speaker 1: exactly like he had no idea. Yeah did he done

1733
01:33:50,520 --> 01:33:55,680
Speaker 1: all this like crazy shit barefoot? Yeah, never occurred to him.

1734
01:33:55,680 --> 01:33:58,120
Speaker 1: You don't think when it matters. You know what you

1735
01:33:58,200 --> 01:33:59,519
Speaker 1: got on your feet, You're gonna do what you need to.

1736
01:34:00,040 --> 01:34:02,000
Speaker 1: It could play in those if you did receive some

1737
01:34:02,160 --> 01:34:05,200
Speaker 1: injuries from having sandals on, like Alex did, and then

1738
01:34:05,240 --> 01:34:08,640
Speaker 1: you had to continue on and you weren't at your

1739
01:34:08,680 --> 01:34:11,320
Speaker 1: house and in a town, Yeah, it could play into

1740
01:34:11,360 --> 01:34:16,120
Speaker 1: the I'm guessing, especially if you're on a rocky hillside.

1741
01:34:16,360 --> 01:34:19,240
Speaker 1: Rocks can be sharp, yeah, and you're getting tossed around

1742
01:34:19,280 --> 01:34:21,679
Speaker 1: and you're jumping and left and right, you very easily

1743
01:34:21,720 --> 01:34:23,880
Speaker 1: could have I mean, it wouldn't be hard right now

1744
01:34:23,920 --> 01:34:25,880
Speaker 1: to go outside, take your shoes off and kick a

1745
01:34:26,000 --> 01:34:29,360
Speaker 1: rock and probably and probably you know, replicate the same.

1746
01:34:29,840 --> 01:34:32,200
Speaker 1: That's not what I think happened. What's your theory. I

1747
01:34:32,240 --> 01:34:35,080
Speaker 1: think that when you were passed out, he very delicately

1748
01:34:35,880 --> 01:34:38,120
Speaker 1: took his teeth and just nipped off the end of

1749
01:34:38,160 --> 01:34:40,439
Speaker 1: some of your toes and then he tasted badly and

1750
01:34:40,840 --> 01:34:44,439
Speaker 1: he's like, yeah, yuck, feet, I'm gonna run out of here.

1751
01:34:46,280 --> 01:34:48,240
Speaker 1: You should have looked around next to your pelican case.

1752
01:34:48,320 --> 01:34:52,320
Speaker 1: Your toe tips are probably there. Yeah, now, a raven

1753
01:34:52,400 --> 01:34:54,560
Speaker 1: probably ate him at this point, at the bottom of

1754
01:34:54,640 --> 01:34:58,519
Speaker 1: the hill, they strip you down. Are you now, um?

1755
01:35:00,760 --> 01:35:03,400
Speaker 1: How how with it are you at this point? I'm

1756
01:35:03,439 --> 01:35:06,840
Speaker 1: super with it? Are you like? I will live? Well?

1757
01:35:07,000 --> 01:35:08,760
Speaker 1: I was like, I'm pretty sure I'm gonna live, but

1758
01:35:09,120 --> 01:35:11,160
Speaker 1: I'm gonna ask I mean ask Dan because he knows

1759
01:35:11,240 --> 01:35:16,479
Speaker 1: better than me, and I think that's you know, a

1760
01:35:16,560 --> 01:35:18,400
Speaker 1: quote in the in the book, and he's like, yeah,

1761
01:35:18,439 --> 01:35:20,760
Speaker 1: you're you're gonna live, Like, okay, good. I was pretty sure,

1762
01:35:20,920 --> 01:35:23,960
Speaker 1: but I just need to check because you know, you

1763
01:35:24,040 --> 01:35:26,280
Speaker 1: still got to be shaken. Oh yeah, I mean I'm

1764
01:35:26,640 --> 01:35:31,560
Speaker 1: I'm uh just terrified and coming down off of a

1765
01:35:32,000 --> 01:35:35,960
Speaker 1: you know, crazy adrenaline rush, um and coming off of that,

1766
01:35:36,040 --> 01:35:38,680
Speaker 1: you know, I almost pass out again and um. But

1767
01:35:39,240 --> 01:35:41,160
Speaker 1: you know, one of the important things when you're um

1768
01:35:42,200 --> 01:35:44,960
Speaker 1: assessing someone who's just had something crazy happened that you

1769
01:35:45,000 --> 01:35:47,120
Speaker 1: know they're not positive what will happen is making sure

1770
01:35:47,160 --> 01:35:50,320
Speaker 1: that they don't have hidden injuries somewhere or distracting injury

1771
01:35:50,400 --> 01:35:52,880
Speaker 1: that's making you miss what the important thing is. So

1772
01:35:53,960 --> 01:35:56,559
Speaker 1: he did a good job of doing that full assessment

1773
01:35:56,600 --> 01:35:58,760
Speaker 1: and making sure that these are the thing these are

1774
01:35:58,800 --> 01:36:02,200
Speaker 1: the things that are going on right now. So did

1775
01:36:03,160 --> 01:36:09,479
Speaker 1: during the attack, did you lose your sense of time?

1776
01:36:09,640 --> 01:36:11,400
Speaker 1: Or does it seem like things played in the way

1777
01:36:11,400 --> 01:36:15,519
Speaker 1: they should have played? So like, when you review it,

1778
01:36:16,120 --> 01:36:17,920
Speaker 1: does it seem like it took too long or went

1779
01:36:18,000 --> 01:36:20,519
Speaker 1: too fast or does it feel normal to you? It

1780
01:36:20,640 --> 01:36:24,240
Speaker 1: feels normal, with the exception of the um laps in

1781
01:36:24,280 --> 01:36:27,679
Speaker 1: consciousness like that, there's just no actual sense of time.

1782
01:36:28,320 --> 01:36:29,640
Speaker 1: It's kind of like when you go to sleep. You know,

1783
01:36:29,720 --> 01:36:31,479
Speaker 1: he might wake up and feel like you slept for

1784
01:36:31,720 --> 01:36:34,599
Speaker 1: a minute and you've actually been asleep for a super

1785
01:36:34,640 --> 01:36:37,840
Speaker 1: long time. So I had no actual sense for that,

1786
01:36:38,000 --> 01:36:41,519
Speaker 1: but the rest of it plays in real time. What

1787
01:36:41,720 --> 01:36:46,360
Speaker 1: was different was, um, my senses and my thought process.

1788
01:36:46,439 --> 01:36:49,760
Speaker 1: We're just going so fast, Like I didn't have to

1789
01:36:49,880 --> 01:36:52,760
Speaker 1: wait for my brain to think through things. Um it

1790
01:36:52,960 --> 01:36:57,479
Speaker 1: was either helping me just make conscious decisions so quickly,

1791
01:36:58,160 --> 01:37:01,080
Speaker 1: or making decisions for me based on you know whatever.

1792
01:37:01,280 --> 01:37:04,720
Speaker 1: That was best. After we had a run in with

1793
01:37:04,800 --> 01:37:09,799
Speaker 1: a bear, it wasn't anything like yours. Hurt UM inspired

1794
01:37:09,840 --> 01:37:13,160
Speaker 1: me to read a little bit about uh, how time

1795
01:37:13,240 --> 01:37:17,519
Speaker 1: passes during like near death experience moments right um extremely

1796
01:37:17,600 --> 01:37:21,920
Speaker 1: high stressed moments. And there's these different responses, which is um,

1797
01:37:23,320 --> 01:37:28,280
Speaker 1: you can become fixated on a detail and miss a

1798
01:37:28,400 --> 01:37:33,880
Speaker 1: lot tunnel vision, or you can become aware of general

1799
01:37:33,960 --> 01:37:41,000
Speaker 1: pandemonium and not have details. Uh, the lapses and how

1800
01:37:41,120 --> 01:37:46,600
Speaker 1: time works is later like like your your sense that

1801
01:37:46,680 --> 01:37:49,360
Speaker 1: it went fast or I saw my life flash before

1802
01:37:49,439 --> 01:37:52,760
Speaker 1: my eyes. Some people think it's something that gets laid

1803
01:37:52,880 --> 01:37:55,600
Speaker 1: over in memory and that you probably didn't experience it

1804
01:37:55,680 --> 01:37:57,560
Speaker 1: that way, but you can't. When you go to remember it,

1805
01:37:57,720 --> 01:38:01,439
Speaker 1: everything compresses or not because of all the things that

1806
01:38:01,520 --> 01:38:03,760
Speaker 1: you missed when you were fixated on a detail or

1807
01:38:03,920 --> 01:38:07,080
Speaker 1: living like a detail list environment. Meaning when if you

1808
01:38:07,120 --> 01:38:09,640
Speaker 1: fall off the roof and land on the ground and

1809
01:38:09,760 --> 01:38:11,880
Speaker 1: you recollect what the fall was like, that's probably not

1810
01:38:11,960 --> 01:38:15,560
Speaker 1: what the fall was like. Yeah, it gets confused and

1811
01:38:15,600 --> 01:38:21,080
Speaker 1: you try to explain the event right because the event

1812
01:38:21,120 --> 01:38:24,599
Speaker 1: didn't play out like it took away your your sense

1813
01:38:24,640 --> 01:38:28,720
Speaker 1: of self awareness, like your your your mental system went

1814
01:38:28,760 --> 01:38:31,480
Speaker 1: out the window. The whole way you calibrate your experiences

1815
01:38:31,520 --> 01:38:33,400
Speaker 1: and understand the passage of time, like you were in

1816
01:38:34,040 --> 01:38:36,240
Speaker 1: in a situation that made no sense to you and

1817
01:38:36,320 --> 01:38:38,360
Speaker 1: so all the things you normally do to sort of

1818
01:38:38,439 --> 01:38:41,800
Speaker 1: like keep your equilibrium so to speak, in life, are

1819
01:38:41,960 --> 01:38:44,720
Speaker 1: are shed, you know. Saying that when they're training, like

1820
01:38:44,880 --> 01:38:47,240
Speaker 1: like people that are training like first responders and things.

1821
01:38:47,640 --> 01:38:50,479
Speaker 1: Is if you image you come into a horrible there's

1822
01:38:50,520 --> 01:38:53,680
Speaker 1: been an explosion, and you come into the explosion and

1823
01:38:53,720 --> 01:39:00,200
Speaker 1: there's a severed arm um, but there's still catastrophe laying

1824
01:39:00,200 --> 01:39:03,479
Speaker 1: out around you. Getting people to be like, there's a

1825
01:39:03,560 --> 01:39:07,120
Speaker 1: severed arm but I will still be aware of the

1826
01:39:07,160 --> 01:39:09,360
Speaker 1: fact that there's a building that's going to fall right,

1827
01:39:09,840 --> 01:39:11,920
Speaker 1: or there's a person that that arm came from, yeah,

1828
01:39:12,080 --> 01:39:14,120
Speaker 1: and not that you come in and you only see that,

1829
01:39:14,560 --> 01:39:18,040
Speaker 1: or that you come in and you're just overwhelmed by

1830
01:39:18,160 --> 01:39:23,080
Speaker 1: the immensity of all the things that make no sense

1831
01:39:23,120 --> 01:39:27,160
Speaker 1: to you and you see nothing right like, and I

1832
01:39:27,280 --> 01:39:29,240
Speaker 1: think that, like, what kind of person you are there?

1833
01:39:30,560 --> 01:39:32,560
Speaker 1: I became interested in that because I feel like the

1834
01:39:32,600 --> 01:39:35,439
Speaker 1: different people in our group when we had an experience

1835
01:39:35,479 --> 01:39:38,080
Speaker 1: like this, different people in our group revealed to be

1836
01:39:38,160 --> 01:39:47,040
Speaker 1: different versions. I'm the shitty version. I was detailed, just

1837
01:39:47,640 --> 01:39:54,040
Speaker 1: a detail, one detail, one detail, one like one crystalline

1838
01:39:55,200 --> 01:39:58,200
Speaker 1: detail is what I have in my head. And I

1839
01:39:58,320 --> 01:40:01,120
Speaker 1: can't fill the experience, and because all I have in

1840
01:40:01,200 --> 01:40:04,880
Speaker 1: my head is one thing that was probably right. It

1841
01:40:05,000 --> 01:40:07,880
Speaker 1: was probably like flash, but in my mind that drag

1842
01:40:07,920 --> 01:40:11,519
Speaker 1: down for an eternity, right, And so I look back

1843
01:40:11,560 --> 01:40:13,240
Speaker 1: and I can't make sense of the time. I can't

1844
01:40:13,320 --> 01:40:15,800
Speaker 1: understand how people's experiences. I just have this like thing.

1845
01:40:15,960 --> 01:40:19,040
Speaker 1: It's so annoying. And there were major things going on

1846
01:40:19,240 --> 01:40:22,800
Speaker 1: around me that I was completely unaware of. But in

1847
01:40:22,880 --> 01:40:25,960
Speaker 1: a sense, everybody had that too. Everybody had emergial body

1848
01:40:26,200 --> 01:40:29,519
Speaker 1: recollects what anybody else did. In those two seconds, he

1849
01:40:29,640 --> 01:40:34,240
Speaker 1: became everybody became singular and focused. Together, you are one,

1850
01:40:34,600 --> 01:40:38,000
Speaker 1: single and focused. Everybody knew their own experience, but all

1851
01:40:38,040 --> 01:40:42,080
Speaker 1: the people had a chronology, had at least a personal chronology.

1852
01:40:43,400 --> 01:40:45,439
Speaker 1: I don't even have a personal chronology. To me, it

1853
01:40:45,520 --> 01:40:50,439
Speaker 1: was a thing. It was an image, and the image started,

1854
01:40:50,479 --> 01:40:52,519
Speaker 1: the image edit and it was over. Other people are like,

1855
01:40:52,600 --> 01:40:54,519
Speaker 1: oh no, this happened, this happened, this happened, this happened.

1856
01:40:54,520 --> 01:40:55,600
Speaker 1: I have no idea what you were doing, but I

1857
01:40:55,600 --> 01:40:58,080
Speaker 1: don't know what I was doing. But I lost it all.

1858
01:40:59,040 --> 01:41:01,760
Speaker 1: It's like reading about your thing, like you you have

1859
01:41:02,080 --> 01:41:05,519
Speaker 1: whatever you did, you developed, maybe in recollection like a

1860
01:41:05,560 --> 01:41:07,799
Speaker 1: pretty like this happened, that happened, this happened, this happened,

1861
01:41:08,360 --> 01:41:11,120
Speaker 1: and deliver it a pretty plausible way. Yeah, and that

1862
01:41:11,320 --> 01:41:13,439
Speaker 1: was I mean, there's so much of it that's just

1863
01:41:13,520 --> 01:41:16,760
Speaker 1: incredibly vivid in my memory. Um. And then there's a

1864
01:41:16,880 --> 01:41:19,720
Speaker 1: lot of it that I had to dig super deep

1865
01:41:19,760 --> 01:41:22,240
Speaker 1: for the recall. Um. And that was one of the

1866
01:41:22,320 --> 01:41:26,439
Speaker 1: real challenges in writing it was was going back to

1867
01:41:26,560 --> 01:41:32,320
Speaker 1: that spot in my mind and just pulling those memories

1868
01:41:32,439 --> 01:41:35,000
Speaker 1: out of the deep storage that some of them were

1869
01:41:35,560 --> 01:41:38,120
Speaker 1: hidden in. UM. That's what I was going to ask

1870
01:41:38,160 --> 01:41:42,360
Speaker 1: about because the way that you right, it's so detailed,

1871
01:41:42,920 --> 01:41:46,360
Speaker 1: I mean, the you know, from being in the moment

1872
01:41:46,479 --> 01:41:48,200
Speaker 1: with the memory too. And I was going to ask,

1873
01:41:48,240 --> 01:41:49,920
Speaker 1: I know that you kept a journal on this, but

1874
01:41:50,880 --> 01:41:55,080
Speaker 1: you know, is recall different from and we can't really

1875
01:41:55,160 --> 01:41:58,160
Speaker 1: know from from the exact moment that you're experiencing, you know,

1876
01:41:58,280 --> 01:42:01,200
Speaker 1: how the wind feels against your skin in or the

1877
01:42:01,320 --> 01:42:05,080
Speaker 1: smell of something that you recall, and then and then

1878
01:42:05,320 --> 01:42:09,960
Speaker 1: articulating kind of the play by play in such great detail,

1879
01:42:10,960 --> 01:42:15,559
Speaker 1: you know. Yeah, And that's I mean, that was um,

1880
01:42:16,760 --> 01:42:18,479
Speaker 1: one of the I mean, that's always the challenge with

1881
01:42:18,600 --> 01:42:23,000
Speaker 1: writing memoir especially, and that journal was incredibly valuable for me.

1882
01:42:23,560 --> 01:42:25,840
Speaker 1: I journaled, you know, throughout the trip, so I had

1883
01:42:26,080 --> 01:42:29,200
Speaker 1: a very accurate log of every single meal we ate

1884
01:42:30,760 --> 01:42:36,519
Speaker 1: and there and then you also had people there too. Yeah,

1885
01:42:36,640 --> 01:42:38,720
Speaker 1: so that was valuable. I don't want to. I don't

1886
01:42:38,720 --> 01:42:41,479
Speaker 1: want to, like, uh, I got a couple more questions

1887
01:42:41,520 --> 01:42:43,320
Speaker 1: for you, sure, But first I want to just explain

1888
01:42:43,400 --> 01:42:46,000
Speaker 1: one thing. How many miles at this point? How many

1889
01:42:46,040 --> 01:42:49,280
Speaker 1: miles are you from the nearest piece of aircraft? Um,

1890
01:42:49,600 --> 01:42:54,280
Speaker 1: we're we have like over a hundred miles of paddling left.

1891
01:42:54,439 --> 01:42:57,240
Speaker 1: And then it's like I think it was it was

1892
01:42:57,320 --> 01:43:00,400
Speaker 1: like sixty five ish miles from the nearest aircraft, but

1893
01:43:00,520 --> 01:43:03,400
Speaker 1: there wasn't an aircraft available there. So it's like when

1894
01:43:03,680 --> 01:43:06,559
Speaker 1: like hundreds of miles to a helicopter. Yeah, I mean

1895
01:43:06,680 --> 01:43:08,519
Speaker 1: wherever the nearest one from that would have been at

1896
01:43:08,560 --> 01:43:12,240
Speaker 1: that point, I suppose, which hundreds, maybe thousands, I don't know.

1897
01:43:12,760 --> 01:43:16,400
Speaker 1: One of the other settlements down Hudson Bay, which I

1898
01:43:16,439 --> 01:43:17,920
Speaker 1: don't even know which one the next one is might

1899
01:43:18,000 --> 01:43:19,960
Speaker 1: have had an aircraft. Yeah. The reason I bring this

1900
01:43:20,080 --> 01:43:23,599
Speaker 1: up is I don't wanna Um, We've covered a lot

1901
01:43:23,640 --> 01:43:26,240
Speaker 1: of ground. Yeah, I just want to know, like I

1902
01:43:26,360 --> 01:43:30,080
Speaker 1: want to leave the chronology to be that here you

1903
01:43:30,200 --> 01:43:34,280
Speaker 1: are right, you've been mauled? Yeah, what next and the

1904
01:43:34,400 --> 01:43:41,679
Speaker 1: things that play out? Yeah after this yeah, um, we'll leave, okay,

1905
01:43:41,880 --> 01:43:44,360
Speaker 1: But what I want to know as my last question,

1906
01:43:45,120 --> 01:43:49,920
Speaker 1: how do you perceive grizzly bears? Now? Does it really

1907
01:43:50,000 --> 01:43:52,120
Speaker 1: bother you the idea that someone would hunt to grizzly

1908
01:43:52,200 --> 01:43:56,519
Speaker 1: bear because of this happening, like hunted this specific grizzly bear?

1909
01:43:56,800 --> 01:43:58,679
Speaker 1: Do you do? Can you find that you like would

1910
01:43:58,720 --> 01:44:01,400
Speaker 1: be like generally I'm on easy with people hunting because

1911
01:44:01,439 --> 01:44:03,640
Speaker 1: it's a contentious thing. Did it make you be like

1912
01:44:04,040 --> 01:44:06,640
Speaker 1: I respect him so much? Or do you feel that

1913
01:44:06,680 --> 01:44:08,920
Speaker 1: they're they're an animals on as there's healthy populations. Do

1914
01:44:09,000 --> 01:44:11,160
Speaker 1: you think of it as being like a mythic creature? Now?

1915
01:44:11,800 --> 01:44:15,200
Speaker 1: Is it like like what's your forget that part of it,

1916
01:44:15,240 --> 01:44:16,760
Speaker 1: forget like whether people show harum or not. I guess

1917
01:44:16,800 --> 01:44:19,920
Speaker 1: let's start with this, like how do you view not

1918
01:44:20,240 --> 01:44:23,160
Speaker 1: that bear? But how do you view bareness? Now? Yeah?

1919
01:44:23,720 --> 01:44:28,400
Speaker 1: Is it sacred? I have a tremendous respect for bears.

1920
01:44:28,840 --> 01:44:32,479
Speaker 1: Um sacred? I mean I would probably put my bear

1921
01:44:32,560 --> 01:44:37,599
Speaker 1: on that spectrum. Um. You know, I for me personally,

1922
01:44:37,600 --> 01:44:40,120
Speaker 1: I don't I don't think I could hunter bear myself.

1923
01:44:40,280 --> 01:44:42,400
Speaker 1: And you said you didn't want them to kill that bear, right,

1924
01:44:42,800 --> 01:44:45,120
Speaker 1: That's a real common thing I found with people. Yeah,

1925
01:44:45,320 --> 01:44:47,320
Speaker 1: not not they because a lot of people get mauled

1926
01:44:47,320 --> 01:44:49,840
Speaker 1: by bear. Didn't kill it. But in the moment, yeah,

1927
01:44:50,080 --> 01:44:52,519
Speaker 1: but later, I mean in the moment I would have

1928
01:44:52,560 --> 01:44:54,680
Speaker 1: defended myself. There's like a sense of forgive. There's a

1929
01:44:54,760 --> 01:44:57,040
Speaker 1: sense of forgiveness that seems to set in with people

1930
01:44:57,720 --> 01:45:00,439
Speaker 1: about a particular animal. Yeah, I mean you know bear,

1931
01:45:00,560 --> 01:45:03,200
Speaker 1: the mauld Amber that we had. Yeah, that bear is

1932
01:45:03,240 --> 01:45:07,200
Speaker 1: dead now, Yeah, I think I I listened to that.

1933
01:45:07,960 --> 01:45:09,639
Speaker 1: I happened to listen to that episode where you guys

1934
01:45:09,640 --> 01:45:13,360
Speaker 1: discussed that and then she didn't want it to be killed. Yeah. Yeah.

1935
01:45:13,520 --> 01:45:15,599
Speaker 1: And I mean once that's the that's the real challenge

1936
01:45:15,640 --> 01:45:18,920
Speaker 1: with bears is um, you know, once they start having

1937
01:45:19,520 --> 01:45:22,160
Speaker 1: these human encounters like it can it can just have

1938
01:45:22,400 --> 01:45:25,560
Speaker 1: such a detrimental effect on those bears. Um, And it

1939
01:45:25,640 --> 01:45:28,320
Speaker 1: can lead to you know, more and more problems and

1940
01:45:28,520 --> 01:45:30,400
Speaker 1: and eventually the bear having to be destroyed, which is

1941
01:45:30,920 --> 01:45:33,360
Speaker 1: you know, too bad. But this one just vanished into

1942
01:45:33,400 --> 01:45:36,160
Speaker 1: the landscape. Mine just vanished. We went out and looked,

1943
01:45:36,200 --> 01:45:39,800
Speaker 1: and they looked for it, and they were gonna see

1944
01:45:39,840 --> 01:45:42,840
Speaker 1: how it responded to people, basically determine if it was

1945
01:45:42,880 --> 01:45:45,479
Speaker 1: going to be a problem bear and then take you know,

1946
01:45:45,920 --> 01:45:49,479
Speaker 1: I like the strategy for that. Well, what we do, person,

1947
01:45:49,600 --> 01:45:52,840
Speaker 1: go up to it, Bob here and we'll see how it.

1948
01:45:53,000 --> 01:45:56,240
Speaker 1: Eric from Bob goes up. You know, Bob's quick with

1949
01:45:56,320 --> 01:46:00,639
Speaker 1: a shotgun. Bob was quick with the with a firearm.

1950
01:46:00,680 --> 01:46:05,400
Speaker 1: But like, I think back on on that explanation and like, really,

1951
01:46:06,160 --> 01:46:09,600
Speaker 1: is that actually what you guys do? Maybe it's like

1952
01:46:09,680 --> 01:46:12,880
Speaker 1: a very odd way to uh do that, but you know,

1953
01:46:13,080 --> 01:46:15,600
Speaker 1: at the same time, so yeah, they didn't have to

1954
01:46:15,680 --> 01:46:17,640
Speaker 1: do that, so I didn't have to worry about it.

1955
01:46:18,160 --> 01:46:19,760
Speaker 1: So I like to think that it's still out there

1956
01:46:19,800 --> 01:46:22,320
Speaker 1: and you know, doing its thing. It could have done

1957
01:46:22,640 --> 01:46:24,519
Speaker 1: a lot more to me, I mean, you know too

1958
01:46:25,120 --> 01:46:28,040
Speaker 1: earlier points that it could have decided that I was

1959
01:46:28,080 --> 01:46:31,799
Speaker 1: a meal, or it could have you know, bitten chunks

1960
01:46:31,920 --> 01:46:34,720
Speaker 1: out of me, or or maimed me for life, or

1961
01:46:35,240 --> 01:46:40,360
Speaker 1: or killed me straight up. Um, but it didn't. And uh,

1962
01:46:40,720 --> 01:46:44,439
Speaker 1: I'm incredibly appreciative of it for that, and Ultimately, it

1963
01:46:44,520 --> 01:46:46,280
Speaker 1: was just a bear being a bear and doing bear

1964
01:46:46,360 --> 01:46:49,120
Speaker 1: things in its own habitat, so it didn't do anything wrong.

1965
01:46:49,560 --> 01:46:56,720
Speaker 1: M hm, So I appreciate it. You got any follow ups? Yeah, um,

1966
01:46:58,400 --> 01:47:01,120
Speaker 1: I mean you touched on a little bit. But tell

1967
01:47:01,200 --> 01:47:03,080
Speaker 1: me how, Like, how do you think it affected everybody

1968
01:47:03,120 --> 01:47:05,519
Speaker 1: else on the trip? I mean Dan's like a major player,

1969
01:47:05,640 --> 01:47:07,639
Speaker 1: right because he's sort of he really has to take

1970
01:47:07,720 --> 01:47:10,840
Speaker 1: over at this point as the trip leader. But like

1971
01:47:11,000 --> 01:47:16,120
Speaker 1: your four bodies that are your aged, like, are they

1972
01:47:16,240 --> 01:47:19,240
Speaker 1: like holy sh it? Now, Okay, I can't sleep because

1973
01:47:19,280 --> 01:47:21,320
Speaker 1: we know there's a bear right near us and there

1974
01:47:21,400 --> 01:47:24,280
Speaker 1: could be more of these down the you know, waterway

1975
01:47:24,400 --> 01:47:26,519
Speaker 1: that we might come up on some more like, how

1976
01:47:26,600 --> 01:47:29,679
Speaker 1: did they change their experience for the remainder of the trip? Yeah,

1977
01:47:29,720 --> 01:47:33,720
Speaker 1: I mean it's um, it dramatically changes the trip, right,

1978
01:47:33,760 --> 01:47:38,000
Speaker 1: I mean the focus is different, the sense of vulnerability

1979
01:47:38,120 --> 01:47:41,519
Speaker 1: is totally different, and the and the responsibilities are are

1980
01:47:41,840 --> 01:47:45,479
Speaker 1: pretty different too. So I mean all of those guys

1981
01:47:45,600 --> 01:47:49,519
Speaker 1: had a lot of extra pressure on them to deal

1982
01:47:49,560 --> 01:47:53,120
Speaker 1: with that, um and they handled it well. Um, you know,

1983
01:47:53,160 --> 01:47:56,599
Speaker 1: they rose the occasion and and helped helped us get

1984
01:47:56,640 --> 01:48:00,080
Speaker 1: to where we needed to get. And um, della it

1985
01:48:00,120 --> 01:48:02,400
Speaker 1: a lot, but I'm very cognizant of the fact that

1986
01:48:02,760 --> 01:48:05,720
Speaker 1: from that point on it was just a very different trip, um.

1987
01:48:06,160 --> 01:48:10,640
Speaker 1: And I'm sure that they were seeing things differently at

1988
01:48:10,680 --> 01:48:14,479
Speaker 1: that point, um, because it's pretty and I would imagine

1989
01:48:14,520 --> 01:48:16,759
Speaker 1: at the time that even though they rose the occasion,

1990
01:48:16,920 --> 01:48:20,040
Speaker 1: maybe they did or did not like seize the moment

1991
01:48:20,120 --> 01:48:21,519
Speaker 1: and just say this is how it is. You know.

1992
01:48:21,600 --> 01:48:23,600
Speaker 1: It's it's hard to do that sometimes, especially as a

1993
01:48:23,640 --> 01:48:27,400
Speaker 1: seventeen year old. But I'm guessing now looking back on it. Yeah,

1994
01:48:27,520 --> 01:48:29,519
Speaker 1: I'm not saying they're happy you got bit by a bear,

1995
01:48:29,680 --> 01:48:33,240
Speaker 1: but right, like that's the kind of experience that like

1996
01:48:33,360 --> 01:48:36,560
Speaker 1: really can build a person. Yeah, I mean it's incredibly transformative,

1997
01:48:36,680 --> 01:48:38,479
Speaker 1: you know, for me and for those guys. I mean,

1998
01:48:38,800 --> 01:48:42,479
Speaker 1: you know, just just being a support person, uh, to

1999
01:48:42,640 --> 01:48:47,360
Speaker 1: a situation like that is, um, it sticks with you forever.

2000
01:48:48,000 --> 01:48:50,160
Speaker 1: I Mean, it's kind of like with search and rescue whatever.

2001
01:48:50,200 --> 01:48:53,599
Speaker 1: You're not the person that's um, you're not the victim, um,

2002
01:48:53,800 --> 01:48:57,360
Speaker 1: but you're they're making a difference in this situation that's

2003
01:48:57,400 --> 01:49:01,679
Speaker 1: just like incredibly unique and and very elemental, and that's

2004
01:49:02,000 --> 01:49:05,519
Speaker 1: very transformative. Right, I got nor question Are you glad

2005
01:49:05,520 --> 01:49:10,400
Speaker 1: you got attack by the bear? I don't know if

2006
01:49:10,439 --> 01:49:13,120
Speaker 1: i'd say I was glad I got attack by You're

2007
01:49:13,160 --> 01:49:16,840
Speaker 1: now glad you got attack by a bear? Forget the book? Yeah,

2008
01:49:17,439 --> 01:49:19,240
Speaker 1: I mean like we're trying to remove the book. But

2009
01:49:20,600 --> 01:49:23,920
Speaker 1: remove the book. I mean I would it. I'd be

2010
01:49:24,000 --> 01:49:26,439
Speaker 1: a different person if I hadn't been. Um. So in

2011
01:49:26,520 --> 01:49:28,479
Speaker 1: a lot of ways, I feel like it was um

2012
01:49:28,800 --> 01:49:35,200
Speaker 1: grounding and helped me to kind of, um, appreciate everything

2013
01:49:35,280 --> 01:49:39,840
Speaker 1: in life just that much more. Um. It's hard to say, like, yeah,

2014
01:49:39,840 --> 01:49:44,720
Speaker 1: I enjoy getting mulled by bear, but um, yeah, yeah.

2015
01:49:45,120 --> 01:49:47,519
Speaker 1: I mean we're a product of our experiences, right. You know,

2016
01:49:47,920 --> 01:49:50,680
Speaker 1: would I go back into that trip again? Absolutely? Um,

2017
01:49:50,960 --> 01:49:55,320
Speaker 1: Would I take precautions to change how that situation would

2018
01:49:55,320 --> 01:50:01,000
Speaker 1: have gone? Yes? So, UM, But I'm it's an experience

2019
01:50:01,080 --> 01:50:05,880
Speaker 1: that has been incredibly important to me and directional in

2020
01:50:05,960 --> 01:50:09,720
Speaker 1: my life. UM. So it's hard to think about that

2021
01:50:09,920 --> 01:50:15,200
Speaker 1: not being there. What you got. Um, I'm curious about

2022
01:50:15,280 --> 01:50:18,439
Speaker 1: the trauma of it all, um, and that there's there's

2023
01:50:18,439 --> 01:50:20,640
Speaker 1: a lot there. So we can make this short and

2024
01:50:21,360 --> 01:50:24,920
Speaker 1: wrap it up, but I'm curious about that and if um,

2025
01:50:26,760 --> 01:50:29,840
Speaker 1: you've kind of been if you define yourself as and

2026
01:50:29,920 --> 01:50:32,680
Speaker 1: are kind of defined by others as like the bear

2027
01:50:32,720 --> 01:50:36,360
Speaker 1: attack guy, right, like and if that has colored everything

2028
01:50:36,479 --> 01:50:41,479
Speaker 1: else afterwards, even though that was a singular and unique experience,

2029
01:50:41,800 --> 01:50:47,000
Speaker 1: right and it's super short experience. UM. Yeah, I mean

2030
01:50:47,040 --> 01:50:50,400
Speaker 1: that trauma took a little while to kind of um

2031
01:50:51,000 --> 01:50:53,200
Speaker 1: categorize in my brain and kind of put put where

2032
01:50:53,240 --> 01:50:57,120
Speaker 1: it needed to go. UM. While I was still out

2033
01:50:57,160 --> 01:50:59,879
Speaker 1: in the woods, you know, it was just like bears everywhere,

2034
01:51:00,400 --> 01:51:04,120
Speaker 1: not literally, but I was perceiving them everywhere. UM. And then,

2035
01:51:04,200 --> 01:51:06,240
Speaker 1: you know I talked earlier about one of my steps

2036
01:51:06,360 --> 01:51:10,040
Speaker 1: was to kind of get myself back into situations that

2037
01:51:10,160 --> 01:51:15,600
Speaker 1: would um help me overcome barriers that I was now experiencing.

2038
01:51:16,080 --> 01:51:18,240
Speaker 1: You know, going to zoos and actually seeing live grizzly

2039
01:51:18,320 --> 01:51:21,200
Speaker 1: bears was one of them. Um. Getting back out into

2040
01:51:21,240 --> 01:51:24,000
Speaker 1: the woods uh in a in a way that I

2041
01:51:24,080 --> 01:51:26,680
Speaker 1: had enough support around me that I could do that

2042
01:51:26,880 --> 01:51:32,040
Speaker 1: and go through that evolution of of fear to kind

2043
01:51:32,080 --> 01:51:35,640
Speaker 1: of having control of the situation everything. My family and

2044
01:51:35,720 --> 01:51:39,040
Speaker 1: friends were really important for that, UM. And that took

2045
01:51:39,120 --> 01:51:42,080
Speaker 1: several years of kind of easing back into it, and

2046
01:51:42,280 --> 01:51:44,240
Speaker 1: I looked like Rambo for the first couple of years

2047
01:51:44,280 --> 01:51:46,320
Speaker 1: going back to the boundary waters. It's like, why didn't

2048
01:51:46,320 --> 01:51:52,280
Speaker 1: need to tactical vest and the machete, so the club,

2049
01:51:52,479 --> 01:51:56,439
Speaker 1: I didn't carry club, but yet I had yeah right, yeah,

2050
01:51:56,520 --> 01:51:59,920
Speaker 1: like a spiked maze. Yeah. So you know, you can

2051
01:52:00,000 --> 01:52:02,519
Speaker 1: troll what you can and and I never wanted it

2052
01:52:02,600 --> 01:52:04,200
Speaker 1: to define me in the sense of like I can't

2053
01:52:04,200 --> 01:52:06,719
Speaker 1: go do these things anymore. So I was very intentional

2054
01:52:06,720 --> 01:52:09,439
Speaker 1: about going back out there and doing those things. Getting

2055
01:52:09,479 --> 01:52:11,880
Speaker 1: back in the race man, Yeah, exactly, get back up

2056
01:52:11,920 --> 01:52:15,320
Speaker 1: on the horse and um, you know, being comfortable with

2057
01:52:15,400 --> 01:52:19,439
Speaker 1: the fact that I might be uneasy or my experience

2058
01:52:19,520 --> 01:52:22,160
Speaker 1: might be different at this point, but um, you know,

2059
01:52:22,479 --> 01:52:26,920
Speaker 1: managing my risks appropriately and then getting back out there. Um,

2060
01:52:27,360 --> 01:52:29,720
Speaker 1: you know, when I I was seventeen, I went. I

2061
01:52:29,840 --> 01:52:32,439
Speaker 1: started my senior year of high school three weeks after

2062
01:52:32,520 --> 01:52:35,600
Speaker 1: I was attacked. Yeah, because you're writ you're seing your

2063
01:52:35,600 --> 01:52:38,000
Speaker 1: paper about Oh yeah I was in this summer. What

2064
01:52:38,080 --> 01:52:45,840
Speaker 1: am I going to do? Yeah exactly, So that Phil,

2065
01:52:48,200 --> 01:52:50,680
Speaker 1: I mean it sounds crazy and intense and I can't

2066
01:52:50,720 --> 01:52:54,280
Speaker 1: even comprehend it. Yeah, thanks a lot. I love it.

2067
01:52:54,400 --> 01:52:57,800
Speaker 1: I love it. How you enjoin your cameras pill it's

2068
01:52:57,800 --> 01:52:59,439
Speaker 1: a learning experience. I think it's going well though. I

2069
01:52:59,439 --> 01:53:02,360
Speaker 1: think we're gonna at this work nice. Yeah, what we're

2070
01:53:02,400 --> 01:53:05,000
Speaker 1: talking about there is Phil. Go ahead. I just gon

2071
01:53:05,280 --> 01:53:08,200
Speaker 1: had some more you know, bearing and canoe questions, But

2072
01:53:08,280 --> 01:53:13,479
Speaker 1: go ahead. Phil's filming where I don't know, we're gonna

2073
01:53:13,520 --> 01:53:18,760
Speaker 1: like start releasing highlight videos and whatnot. That's true. Yeah,

2074
01:53:18,760 --> 01:53:20,760
Speaker 1: there's a test run. You may or may not see

2075
01:53:21,040 --> 01:53:23,519
Speaker 1: some of this, but you will see things in the

2076
01:53:23,560 --> 01:53:27,560
Speaker 1: near future. That is the plan. It's let's fill the

2077
01:53:27,600 --> 01:53:31,360
Speaker 1: podcast engineer. We're gonna have to really like gussie ourselves

2078
01:53:31,520 --> 01:53:36,080
Speaker 1: up and pick our nose planning. I'm gonna change everything

2079
01:53:36,080 --> 01:53:37,880
Speaker 1: you start. You know, Larry King always said that so

2080
01:53:37,880 --> 01:53:41,200
Speaker 1: long as suspenders, suspenders, leaning forward, your elbows on the

2081
01:53:41,280 --> 01:53:47,040
Speaker 1: table some bis at different hours like that, Uh you didn't.

2082
01:53:47,920 --> 01:53:50,080
Speaker 1: You're close to finishing meeting and finish you're like what

2083
01:53:50,280 --> 01:53:52,640
Speaker 1: forty some miles right from where the rest of the

2084
01:53:52,720 --> 01:53:55,360
Speaker 1: crew ended up taking out at the point where I

2085
01:53:55,400 --> 01:53:59,880
Speaker 1: got Evack, well, when I got Evec yeah, closer like

2086
01:54:00,000 --> 01:54:02,240
Speaker 1: but I was trying to leave those details as like, uh,

2087
01:54:02,840 --> 01:54:04,599
Speaker 1: I don't want to do his whole damn book. Well,

2088
01:54:04,680 --> 01:54:08,840
Speaker 1: I skipped ahead right to the very very end. So

2089
01:54:08,920 --> 01:54:10,880
Speaker 1: you got to eve act, pursue your line of questioning,

2090
01:54:11,520 --> 01:54:16,720
Speaker 1: sustained whatever you say. You had to Uh, you had

2091
01:54:16,760 --> 01:54:19,120
Speaker 1: to bring a guy, a guy with you when you

2092
01:54:19,200 --> 01:54:22,559
Speaker 1: when you pulled out. UM. I know for a lot

2093
01:54:22,600 --> 01:54:24,360
Speaker 1: of people, like when you're on a big trip like

2094
01:54:24,479 --> 01:54:26,439
Speaker 1: that you set out to do as a as a

2095
01:54:26,600 --> 01:54:30,439
Speaker 1: beginning and end and if you don't finish, it's like

2096
01:54:30,720 --> 01:54:33,680
Speaker 1: naws at you. Yeah, so as a nawn at you,

2097
01:54:33,840 --> 01:54:35,320
Speaker 1: you guys are gonna have to go back and go

2098
01:54:35,480 --> 01:54:39,040
Speaker 1: do the whole six hundred miles again and finish her up. Yeah,

2099
01:54:39,160 --> 01:54:42,800
Speaker 1: summit fever, right, Yeah, Um, I want to go back.

2100
01:54:42,840 --> 01:54:43,960
Speaker 1: I don't know if I want to do the same

2101
01:54:44,000 --> 01:54:48,240
Speaker 1: trip exactly. Um, but there is kind of that sense

2102
01:54:48,320 --> 01:54:51,960
Speaker 1: of like, oh, you didn't quite finish the trip that

2103
01:54:52,040 --> 01:54:54,200
Speaker 1: you had set out to do, but you did the

2104
01:54:54,280 --> 01:54:58,160
Speaker 1: trip that that you were dealt um. So that's kind

2105
01:54:58,160 --> 01:55:00,760
Speaker 1: of part of the whole vibe of like coming to

2106
01:55:00,960 --> 01:55:04,240
Speaker 1: terms with um with this and really with any long

2107
01:55:04,320 --> 01:55:06,720
Speaker 1: expedition like that. You get back and it's like you

2108
01:55:06,840 --> 01:55:10,000
Speaker 1: have to recondition yourself to the world. Um, it's a

2109
01:55:10,040 --> 01:55:14,800
Speaker 1: hard transition. So yeah, somebody I'll go back. Good. Last question,

2110
01:55:14,840 --> 01:55:17,360
Speaker 1: I promised, that's some all the questions you want. Man

2111
01:55:18,400 --> 01:55:21,640
Speaker 1: twice and I forget the chronology, but twice, you guys

2112
01:55:21,760 --> 01:55:26,720
Speaker 1: lose a canoe? Correct, not on this trip, once on

2113
01:55:26,800 --> 01:55:29,720
Speaker 1: this trip, he wants on this trip. Yeah, like lost lost,

2114
01:55:29,800 --> 01:55:32,880
Speaker 1: But I thought you guys got it back one time. Well,

2115
01:55:33,440 --> 01:55:36,600
Speaker 1: so one time it's like slip it barely slid away. Yeah,

2116
01:55:37,000 --> 01:55:38,760
Speaker 1: is that the one you're referring to, right, But then

2117
01:55:38,800 --> 01:55:44,480
Speaker 1: another time you is actually lose a canoe and it's gone, gone, gone,

2118
01:55:44,880 --> 01:55:47,360
Speaker 1: like it's not coming back. You guys only have two

2119
01:55:47,400 --> 01:55:50,440
Speaker 1: at that point. Yeah, I'm just wondering, like what sort

2120
01:55:50,480 --> 01:55:55,000
Speaker 1: of like what's the protocol for beaching, tathering, putting. How

2121
01:55:55,040 --> 01:55:59,160
Speaker 1: does the canoe that you're so dependent upon get taken away? Yeah,

2122
01:55:59,800 --> 01:56:01,920
Speaker 1: well you did it. You were you were crippled up.

2123
01:56:02,000 --> 01:56:05,040
Speaker 1: You did a shitty job, yank get up on the beach, yeah,

2124
01:56:05,200 --> 01:56:08,160
Speaker 1: you know, and and that that environment is that you

2125
01:56:08,280 --> 01:56:09,920
Speaker 1: just you just pull it up on the beach with

2126
01:56:10,040 --> 01:56:12,480
Speaker 1: crippled or not, and you tip it upside down and

2127
01:56:12,720 --> 01:56:15,320
Speaker 1: that's it for the night. So our our protocol was

2128
01:56:15,400 --> 01:56:16,760
Speaker 1: to like pull it up out of the water and

2129
01:56:16,840 --> 01:56:19,760
Speaker 1: then weigh it down so that the wind didn't take it. Um.

2130
01:56:20,000 --> 01:56:22,080
Speaker 1: And what happened in our situation was we had like

2131
01:56:22,200 --> 01:56:26,920
Speaker 1: this century storm um that came up. I actually pulled

2132
01:56:27,000 --> 01:56:29,200
Speaker 1: up footage of it like a couple of years ago,

2133
01:56:29,320 --> 01:56:31,280
Speaker 1: from two thousand five, and it looks like a hurricane

2134
01:56:31,440 --> 01:56:34,840
Speaker 1: going across northern Canada, um. And it ended up the

2135
01:56:34,920 --> 01:56:36,680
Speaker 1: water level rose a lot and it ended up taking

2136
01:56:36,680 --> 01:56:39,800
Speaker 1: it away. UM. So basically the protocol for securing your

2137
01:56:39,800 --> 01:56:42,640
Speaker 1: canoes is just that secure your canoes. So uh, you know,

2138
01:56:42,760 --> 01:56:44,360
Speaker 1: next time, I'd probably drive a stake in the ground

2139
01:56:44,440 --> 01:56:47,480
Speaker 1: or something um, or just like bring them so far

2140
01:56:47,640 --> 01:56:50,320
Speaker 1: up from sure it's like we're sitting, you know, we

2141
01:56:50,400 --> 01:56:52,640
Speaker 1: got bigger things to deal with if the waters rise

2142
01:56:52,720 --> 01:56:56,520
Speaker 1: to this point. Um. But uh yeah, so that was

2143
01:56:56,680 --> 01:56:58,520
Speaker 1: that was hard. You guys were doing everything right. It

2144
01:56:58,960 --> 01:57:02,520
Speaker 1: was just such a circuit extreme circumstance. Yeah. I could

2145
01:57:02,560 --> 01:57:06,680
Speaker 1: not have foreseen it. Compounding factors, yeah, right, compounding factors.

2146
01:57:06,720 --> 01:57:08,920
Speaker 1: And and not to mention it was like super cold

2147
01:57:08,960 --> 01:57:10,800
Speaker 1: and stormy the night before, and so we're all just

2148
01:57:10,960 --> 01:57:14,200
Speaker 1: struggling and you know, dealing with the aftermath of a

2149
01:57:14,240 --> 01:57:17,839
Speaker 1: bear attack. And yeah, so that was that was painful,

2150
01:57:18,200 --> 01:57:20,960
Speaker 1: pretty incredible for a group of seventeen year old kids,

2151
01:57:22,120 --> 01:57:25,000
Speaker 1: so very learning experience. And give you guys a lot

2152
01:57:25,040 --> 01:57:27,640
Speaker 1: of props man for not hanging out with those girls

2153
01:57:27,720 --> 01:57:30,240
Speaker 1: longer too. I gotta I don't think I could have

2154
01:57:31,120 --> 01:57:34,160
Speaker 1: stuck to you that we're pretty much seventeen year old Yanni. Yeah,

2155
01:57:34,160 --> 01:57:40,160
Speaker 1: you guys were very mature, you know, Okay, Alex Messenger

2156
01:57:41,360 --> 01:57:45,080
Speaker 1: the title of the book, The twenty nine Day Surviving

2157
01:57:45,160 --> 01:57:50,600
Speaker 1: a Grizzly Attack in the Canadian Tundra. Alex, uh, thank you,

2158
01:57:50,920 --> 01:57:53,080
Speaker 1: thank you making the trip out. Yeah, thanks for telling

2159
01:57:53,160 --> 01:57:56,880
Speaker 1: us your tail. Yeah, thanks for having me. It was fun.

2160
01:57:57,240 --> 01:57:57,920
Speaker 1: Take care everybody,