1 00:00:01,520 --> 00:00:09,320 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:11,119 --> 00:00:13,399 Speaker 2: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's 3 00:00:13,480 --> 00:00:15,720 Speaker 2: Chuck and Jerry's here too, and this is stuff you 4 00:00:15,760 --> 00:00:22,079 Speaker 2: should know and this is the somebody gives out even 5 00:00:22,120 --> 00:00:24,120 Speaker 2: worse advice than we do edition. 6 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:27,040 Speaker 1: I'm glad you picked this one. 7 00:00:28,040 --> 00:00:28,440 Speaker 2: Thanks. 8 00:00:29,400 --> 00:00:31,960 Speaker 1: Do you have any history with The Anarchist Cookbook? 9 00:00:32,720 --> 00:00:33,040 Speaker 2: Yes? 10 00:00:33,600 --> 00:00:34,600 Speaker 1: Did you have a copy of it? 11 00:00:35,400 --> 00:00:35,720 Speaker 2: Yes? 12 00:00:36,560 --> 00:00:41,000 Speaker 1: I could have told you that, did you No? I mean, 13 00:00:41,040 --> 00:00:42,920 Speaker 1: I guess first we should just tell people we're talking 14 00:00:42,960 --> 00:00:46,440 Speaker 1: about a book called The Anarchist Cookbook published in nineteen 15 00:00:46,479 --> 00:00:51,400 Speaker 1: seventy one that was, or that is rather a book 16 00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:54,560 Speaker 1: that contains everything from like how to make your own 17 00:00:54,680 --> 00:00:57,880 Speaker 1: LSD to how to find mushrooms to how to make 18 00:00:57,880 --> 00:01:02,120 Speaker 1: a bomb. And you know, Dave points out that it 19 00:01:02,160 --> 00:01:04,520 Speaker 1: was sort of a dorm room special and I did 20 00:01:04,520 --> 00:01:07,800 Speaker 1: not have one, but you know, I had a couple 21 00:01:07,840 --> 00:01:09,360 Speaker 1: of friends that had it, and it was just one 22 00:01:09,400 --> 00:01:12,240 Speaker 1: of those things that were like, hey, got the Anarchist Cookbook. 23 00:01:12,280 --> 00:01:15,399 Speaker 1: It meant you were like just an alternative thinker. And 24 00:01:16,920 --> 00:01:19,600 Speaker 1: I mean, he's very silly thinking back. Yeah, And I 25 00:01:19,600 --> 00:01:21,520 Speaker 1: think most of my friends that had it it was 26 00:01:21,959 --> 00:01:25,080 Speaker 1: all about like the drug stuff. It wasn't They weren't 27 00:01:25,120 --> 00:01:28,120 Speaker 1: like bomb makers, you know, right. 28 00:01:28,440 --> 00:01:31,679 Speaker 2: Yeah. I actually hadn't even fully realized that there was 29 00:01:31,680 --> 00:01:35,920 Speaker 2: like bomb making instructions in there. Yeah. Yeah, So it's 30 00:01:35,920 --> 00:01:38,800 Speaker 2: a it's almost like I've seen it described as a 31 00:01:38,800 --> 00:01:40,200 Speaker 2: book of forbidden knowledge. 32 00:01:40,760 --> 00:01:42,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's got such a bad. 33 00:01:42,400 --> 00:01:48,040 Speaker 2: Reputation that it's in any court case I was reading 34 00:01:48,080 --> 00:01:50,640 Speaker 2: about this. In any court case where the book has 35 00:01:50,680 --> 00:01:55,480 Speaker 2: been confiscated as contraband not a single judge has ruled 36 00:01:55,480 --> 00:01:58,240 Speaker 2: that that was illegal. They're like, yeah, get that book 37 00:01:58,280 --> 00:02:03,600 Speaker 2: away from them. That's a terrible book. And it's also 38 00:02:03,680 --> 00:02:07,480 Speaker 2: frequently it has been in the past used as circumstantial 39 00:02:07,480 --> 00:02:10,840 Speaker 2: evidence to help prove cases against people suspected of crimes. 40 00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:14,000 Speaker 2: They were also caught with the anarchist cookbook in their 41 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:16,400 Speaker 2: house and that was used against them in their trials. 42 00:02:16,680 --> 00:02:19,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, and I think in the UK, I was trying 43 00:02:19,160 --> 00:02:22,680 Speaker 1: to find specific incidents of this, but I'm pretty sure 44 00:02:22,720 --> 00:02:24,720 Speaker 1: in the UK, at least for a while, like it 45 00:02:24,840 --> 00:02:28,359 Speaker 1: was if you got caught with it, or maybe if 46 00:02:28,360 --> 00:02:30,240 Speaker 1: it was if something had gone wrong and you got 47 00:02:30,280 --> 00:02:32,120 Speaker 1: caught with it, it was an extra charge or something. 48 00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:34,440 Speaker 1: I'm not sure if it was officially banned there. It 49 00:02:34,480 --> 00:02:36,359 Speaker 1: was kind of hard to little Murky. 50 00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:39,799 Speaker 2: Yeah, but so I mean, in the real world, this 51 00:02:40,200 --> 00:02:44,440 Speaker 2: book has been used in plots that have resulted in 52 00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:49,240 Speaker 2: real life deaths like, Yeah, Timothy McVay, the Oklahoma City bomber, 53 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:52,760 Speaker 2: he had a copy. A guy named Thomas Spinks who 54 00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:56,280 Speaker 2: bombed ten abortion clinics in the eighties, he had a copy. 55 00:02:56,520 --> 00:03:00,720 Speaker 2: The Boston marathon bombers, they had copies. The Column shooters, 56 00:03:00,760 --> 00:03:05,519 Speaker 2: they had a copy. Like, even if it didn't directly 57 00:03:06,160 --> 00:03:10,200 Speaker 2: teach them how to blow people up necessarily, it was 58 00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:16,160 Speaker 2: still an inspirational book for them, right. And the craziest 59 00:03:16,200 --> 00:03:20,639 Speaker 2: part about this whole thing is that these people were 60 00:03:20,680 --> 00:03:25,640 Speaker 2: buying fully into a book written by an angry nineteen 61 00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:28,680 Speaker 2: year old who went on to grow up very shortly 62 00:03:28,720 --> 00:03:32,880 Speaker 2: after the publication of this book and denounced it almost immediately. 63 00:03:33,480 --> 00:03:37,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, and a book that was, you know, kind of 64 00:03:37,680 --> 00:03:44,320 Speaker 1: a copy paste fest. Yeah, mostly information that was readily available. 65 00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:47,360 Speaker 1: In fact, I would say completely, I don't think anything 66 00:03:47,400 --> 00:03:49,560 Speaker 1: that he put in there was something that was like 67 00:03:49,640 --> 00:03:53,040 Speaker 1: truly forbidden. No, uh, like you could find all this 68 00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:55,040 Speaker 1: stuff out, because this kid found all this stuff out 69 00:03:55,040 --> 00:03:55,840 Speaker 1: and just compiled it. 70 00:03:56,320 --> 00:04:00,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, even the literal recipe for LSD was happied and 71 00:04:00,560 --> 00:04:04,640 Speaker 2: pasted from the Eli Lilly patent that describes in depth, 72 00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:08,160 Speaker 2: Like anybody can buy The Anarchist Cookbook or go online 73 00:04:08,600 --> 00:04:11,400 Speaker 2: and figure out exactly how to how to make LSD 74 00:04:11,560 --> 00:04:15,000 Speaker 2: based on these instructions. If you know what you're talking about, chemistry, 75 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:19,240 Speaker 2: that's a big caveat. But I mean it's not like so, Yes, 76 00:04:19,360 --> 00:04:23,440 Speaker 2: every single part in this book was already was accessible, 77 00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:27,799 Speaker 2: but it was presented at least by the publisher. As 78 00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:31,000 Speaker 2: you know, again, this book of forbidden repressed knowledge that 79 00:04:31,560 --> 00:04:34,160 Speaker 2: needs to be gotten in the hands of every American 80 00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:37,280 Speaker 2: so that we can stage an actual revolution and take 81 00:04:37,320 --> 00:04:40,960 Speaker 2: back our country from the forces of you know, evil. 82 00:04:42,279 --> 00:04:46,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, pretty funny. I mean, not funny because it's been used, 83 00:04:46,200 --> 00:04:51,640 Speaker 1: but just works. Like you and I having it around 84 00:04:51,680 --> 00:04:54,920 Speaker 1: us in college is sort of an embarrassing. 85 00:04:54,440 --> 00:04:56,600 Speaker 2: Trope, you know, I have mine in high school. 86 00:04:57,080 --> 00:04:59,120 Speaker 1: Uh, of course you were. You're head of the game, 87 00:04:59,160 --> 00:04:59,919 Speaker 1: my friend. 88 00:05:00,160 --> 00:05:05,800 Speaker 2: For sure. So this book has been two million copies 89 00:05:05,839 --> 00:05:09,400 Speaker 2: of The Anarchist Cookbook has been sold in the I 90 00:05:09,400 --> 00:05:13,520 Speaker 2: guess fifty Yeah, more than fifty years since it was 91 00:05:13,560 --> 00:05:18,120 Speaker 2: first published and it came from again an angry nineteen 92 00:05:18,160 --> 00:05:21,560 Speaker 2: year old whose background and then also the backdrop that 93 00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:25,400 Speaker 2: he wrote this book in really kind of inform what 94 00:05:25,480 --> 00:05:27,480 Speaker 2: you need to know about the Anarchist Cookbook. 95 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:30,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, totally. As far as his background, his name is 96 00:05:30,520 --> 00:05:35,320 Speaker 1: William Powell. He was born in the States, but moved 97 00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:41,080 Speaker 1: to England when he was three, son of a philosophy professor. 98 00:05:41,920 --> 00:05:45,080 Speaker 1: His father was a philosophy teacher and then would go 99 00:05:45,160 --> 00:05:49,440 Speaker 1: on to work as in leadership at the un His 100 00:05:49,440 --> 00:05:51,520 Speaker 1: mom was a therapist. They weren't like, you know, these 101 00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:57,000 Speaker 1: radicals kind of enforcing their opinions on their son. He 102 00:05:57,080 --> 00:06:00,400 Speaker 1: was just a regular kid who moved to England kind 103 00:06:00,440 --> 00:06:02,640 Speaker 1: of didn't fit in there because he was bullied for 104 00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:06,679 Speaker 1: being an American. Then when he came back from England, 105 00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:08,880 Speaker 1: he was bullied for having a little bit of an 106 00:06:08,880 --> 00:06:12,640 Speaker 1: English accent by Americans in White Plains New York. And 107 00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:15,640 Speaker 1: apparently even like teachers would make fun of his accent 108 00:06:15,680 --> 00:06:18,919 Speaker 1: and stuff and tease him. So he started getting pretty 109 00:06:18,920 --> 00:06:21,880 Speaker 1: angry early on, started getting in with a bad crowd 110 00:06:21,880 --> 00:06:27,159 Speaker 1: and skipping school and busting cars, and yeah, eventually I 111 00:06:27,200 --> 00:06:30,440 Speaker 1: believe they sent him to a boarding school where he 112 00:06:30,520 --> 00:06:33,720 Speaker 1: was expelled after he drove a teacher's ditch into a car, 113 00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:35,640 Speaker 1: or I guess put it in neutral and pushed it. 114 00:06:36,120 --> 00:06:39,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, car into a ditch. That'll get you expelled pretty 115 00:06:39,480 --> 00:06:43,880 Speaker 2: much every time. He also said that he was molested 116 00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:47,200 Speaker 2: during this time as well at the boarding school, so 117 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:51,000 Speaker 2: like he had a lot of reason to be angry. 118 00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:54,320 Speaker 2: This stuff like really impacted him. And he also said 119 00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:57,560 Speaker 2: later on he became an educator, which is pretty amazing 120 00:06:57,640 --> 00:07:00,919 Speaker 2: considering what we're about to describe him doing as a teenager. 121 00:07:02,120 --> 00:07:06,720 Speaker 2: But he believes looking back that he had an undiagnosed 122 00:07:06,800 --> 00:07:10,000 Speaker 2: learning disability that made it, on top of all, like 123 00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:14,600 Speaker 2: the social mistreatment made his academic career like that much 124 00:07:14,760 --> 00:07:18,240 Speaker 2: harder and frustrating as well. So you put all that together, 125 00:07:18,280 --> 00:07:22,600 Speaker 2: you have a kid who's ripe for being antisocial. 126 00:07:22,680 --> 00:07:26,560 Speaker 1: I guess, yeah, for sure. He eventually would go to 127 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:29,440 Speaker 1: New York City when he was seventeen on his own 128 00:07:29,640 --> 00:07:32,280 Speaker 1: and lived on the Lower east Side East Village area 129 00:07:32,320 --> 00:07:36,040 Speaker 1: in the Bowery And in the nineteen sixties, this was 130 00:07:36,080 --> 00:07:40,120 Speaker 1: sixty seven. You talked about sort of what was going 131 00:07:40,120 --> 00:07:42,720 Speaker 1: on around him. This was a New York that was 132 00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:50,600 Speaker 1: in the middle of protesting Vietnam. He was even attempted 133 00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:53,600 Speaker 1: to be drafted at least to go to Vietnam and fight, 134 00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:57,320 Speaker 1: but he showed up drunk and stoned at the draft 135 00:07:57,320 --> 00:08:00,000 Speaker 1: board hoping to get out of it, which I guess 136 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:00,800 Speaker 1: he did, right. 137 00:08:01,440 --> 00:08:03,800 Speaker 2: He did. I think he was interviewed four different times 138 00:08:03,840 --> 00:08:06,000 Speaker 2: before they gave him a section four F. 139 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:07,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, which is what he wanted. 140 00:08:08,280 --> 00:08:11,080 Speaker 2: It's exactly what he wanted. And this was another thing. 141 00:08:11,440 --> 00:08:13,520 Speaker 2: This is part of that backdrop that I was referring 142 00:08:13,560 --> 00:08:16,640 Speaker 2: to that was really important to understand. This was a 143 00:08:16,680 --> 00:08:20,600 Speaker 2: time where if you were like a there was I 144 00:08:20,600 --> 00:08:24,480 Speaker 2: think a twenty something year window in age. If you 145 00:08:24,520 --> 00:08:26,920 Speaker 2: were this in that window, if that's how old you were, 146 00:08:27,120 --> 00:08:28,680 Speaker 2: there was a chance that you were going to be 147 00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:32,480 Speaker 2: forced to go fight in Vietnam and possibly die and 148 00:08:32,600 --> 00:08:36,880 Speaker 2: possibly kill other people. And this was reality, and a 149 00:08:36,880 --> 00:08:39,720 Speaker 2: lot of people were not okay with that. So this 150 00:08:39,720 --> 00:08:44,800 Speaker 2: this pushing back on that whole sentiment to kind of 151 00:08:44,840 --> 00:08:48,960 Speaker 2: form this basis of like this revolutionary you know sense 152 00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:54,960 Speaker 2: that like this, the stakes were so high for what 153 00:08:55,120 --> 00:08:58,520 Speaker 2: could happen to you if the government just insucially decided 154 00:08:58,600 --> 00:09:01,640 Speaker 2: you're going over there. Now that to the people who 155 00:09:01,640 --> 00:09:03,800 Speaker 2: were opposed to it. There's like, there's no response to 156 00:09:03,840 --> 00:09:05,400 Speaker 2: this except for a bloody revolution. 157 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:10,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. So his you know, sort of living situation 158 00:09:10,720 --> 00:09:14,600 Speaker 1: certainly didn't quell any of this. He was roommate to 159 00:09:14,679 --> 00:09:17,679 Speaker 1: a guy named Steve Hancock, who was the older brother 160 00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:22,199 Speaker 1: of one of his former boarding school pals, and he 161 00:09:22,280 --> 00:09:26,960 Speaker 1: was a genuine like anarchists. Steve Hancock was. He managed 162 00:09:27,000 --> 00:09:31,640 Speaker 1: a bookstore called book Masters, got William Powell a job there. 163 00:09:32,480 --> 00:09:34,679 Speaker 1: He started digging into, you know, all those sort of 164 00:09:34,679 --> 00:09:39,400 Speaker 1: revolutionary guide books like from Shea Gavera and Abby Hoffman 165 00:09:39,480 --> 00:09:43,520 Speaker 1: and other you know, supposed anarchist leaders at the time. 166 00:09:44,440 --> 00:09:47,520 Speaker 1: And Steve Hancock was a big influence on him. He 167 00:09:47,559 --> 00:09:50,240 Speaker 1: was sort of he was a member of the Industrial 168 00:09:50,280 --> 00:09:52,800 Speaker 1: Workers of the World. I think we've talked about them 169 00:09:52,840 --> 00:09:53,360 Speaker 1: at some point. 170 00:09:53,960 --> 00:09:57,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, you being DEBS was one of the founding members. 171 00:09:57,240 --> 00:10:00,800 Speaker 2: Remember him. He ran for president as a social from prison. 172 00:10:01,440 --> 00:10:04,080 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah. Yeah. So Hancock was a member of 173 00:10:04,080 --> 00:10:07,679 Speaker 1: this group and he told William Powell about this idea 174 00:10:07,800 --> 00:10:13,360 Speaker 1: for distributing flyers, about making LSD, about making Molotov cocktails, 175 00:10:13,920 --> 00:10:17,160 Speaker 1: and that was what the original anarchist cookbook was going 176 00:10:17,240 --> 00:10:20,640 Speaker 1: to be from Powell. Once he kind of launched into 177 00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:22,960 Speaker 1: this thing, was just a series of flyers, but it 178 00:10:23,120 --> 00:10:24,959 Speaker 1: kind of quickly escalated to book level. 179 00:10:25,320 --> 00:10:28,640 Speaker 2: Okay, cool, So just one more thing about him working 180 00:10:28,679 --> 00:10:33,559 Speaker 2: at book masters. Apparently he met Valerie Solange, the woman 181 00:10:33,600 --> 00:10:37,600 Speaker 2: who shot Andy Warhol, when she came around peddling copies 182 00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:41,360 Speaker 2: of her scum manifesto, and he was like, I like this, 183 00:10:41,480 --> 00:10:43,559 Speaker 2: and actually got a few copies and put him in 184 00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:44,079 Speaker 2: the window. 185 00:10:44,600 --> 00:10:44,840 Speaker 1: Yeah. 186 00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:46,839 Speaker 2: Nuts, I think this is a week before she shot 187 00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:47,840 Speaker 2: Andy Warhol too. 188 00:10:48,400 --> 00:10:51,320 Speaker 1: Well, that all totally tracks with his sort of state 189 00:10:51,360 --> 00:10:52,280 Speaker 1: of mind at the time, you know. 190 00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:55,120 Speaker 2: Yeah. And speaking of state of mind, so he is 191 00:10:56,320 --> 00:10:59,040 Speaker 2: completely hooked on speed at this time. He's doing tons 192 00:10:59,080 --> 00:11:04,320 Speaker 2: of drugs, just living the anarchist, anti government, anti war 193 00:11:05,000 --> 00:11:08,840 Speaker 2: lifestyle in New York, which was I don't know if 194 00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:11,360 Speaker 2: you said or not, this was basically like the center 195 00:11:11,559 --> 00:11:16,720 Speaker 2: of the anti war movement in nineteen sixty seven sixty eight, right, yeah, 196 00:11:16,840 --> 00:11:20,640 Speaker 2: and like this whole idea, I should say, not everybody 197 00:11:20,640 --> 00:11:23,360 Speaker 2: I said earlier, everybody who was opposed to it was like, 198 00:11:23,559 --> 00:11:25,720 Speaker 2: the only way you can solve this is a bloody revolution. 199 00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:29,480 Speaker 2: Not true. There was a lot of peaceful activism that 200 00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:32,240 Speaker 2: did not think that, but the people there was a 201 00:11:32,280 --> 00:11:35,760 Speaker 2: lot more militancy than say you'll see today in America. 202 00:11:36,320 --> 00:11:38,480 Speaker 2: It was inspired by the idea that you could be 203 00:11:38,559 --> 00:11:41,040 Speaker 2: drafted and sent to kill people and be killed. And 204 00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:43,960 Speaker 2: those people were the ones who are like, we need 205 00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:46,840 Speaker 2: to we need to overthrow the government. And so that's 206 00:11:47,080 --> 00:11:50,560 Speaker 2: what William Powell was essentially doing when he sat down 207 00:11:50,559 --> 00:11:53,559 Speaker 2: to write this book. He wanted to put the information 208 00:11:54,280 --> 00:11:56,920 Speaker 2: or if you put it all together, you could overthrow 209 00:11:57,000 --> 00:12:00,160 Speaker 2: the government or start a revolution into the hands of 210 00:12:00,160 --> 00:12:03,800 Speaker 2: as many people as possible. And that's that was the 211 00:12:04,160 --> 00:12:07,000 Speaker 2: anarchist cookbook that he sat down and wrote, or like 212 00:12:07,040 --> 00:12:08,880 Speaker 2: you said, he sat down and copied and pasted. 213 00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:12,840 Speaker 1: He wrote a lot too. And maybe we'll get to 214 00:12:12,880 --> 00:12:16,200 Speaker 1: some of that actual writing after a break. Sure, all right, 215 00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:38,880 Speaker 1: we'll be right back, all right. So Powell decides to 216 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:42,040 Speaker 1: put this book together. He goes to the New York 217 00:12:42,040 --> 00:12:45,880 Speaker 1: Public Library Library. I said it like I was seven 218 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:51,040 Speaker 1: years old, started researching this book. And because he you know, 219 00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:53,520 Speaker 1: hopefully we've made it clear that this guy was not 220 00:12:53,559 --> 00:12:56,240 Speaker 1: a weapons expert and didn't know how to make bombs 221 00:12:56,280 --> 00:12:59,599 Speaker 1: and was not a gorilla fighter or true revolutionary. 222 00:12:59,720 --> 00:13:00,240 Speaker 2: He is. 223 00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:05,280 Speaker 1: He's sort of inspired to collect this information. And the 224 00:13:05,320 --> 00:13:08,120 Speaker 1: forward of the book kind of says it all here, 225 00:13:08,640 --> 00:13:11,120 Speaker 1: which he wrote, this is a book for the people 226 00:13:11,120 --> 00:13:13,200 Speaker 1: of the United States of America. It has not written 227 00:13:13,240 --> 00:13:15,960 Speaker 1: for the members of fringe political groups such as the 228 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:20,400 Speaker 1: Weathermen or the Minutemen. Those radical groups don't need this book. 229 00:13:20,480 --> 00:13:23,280 Speaker 1: They already know everything that's in here. And if the 230 00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:26,800 Speaker 1: real people of America, the silent majority, are going to survive, 231 00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:31,600 Speaker 1: they must educate themselves. That is the purpose of this book. Yeah, 232 00:13:32,080 --> 00:13:32,800 Speaker 1: so there you have it. 233 00:13:33,320 --> 00:13:36,880 Speaker 2: So you said that he had like zero experience in 234 00:13:36,920 --> 00:13:44,200 Speaker 2: guerrilla warfare, hand to hand combat, making bombs, converting like 235 00:13:44,280 --> 00:13:48,760 Speaker 2: weapons into other newer, deadlier types of weapons. But if 236 00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:51,959 Speaker 2: you read his writing, he sounds like he's been there, 237 00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:54,079 Speaker 2: done that, and now he's come to tell you how 238 00:13:54,120 --> 00:13:56,240 Speaker 2: to do it yourself. That's the way it reads. He 239 00:13:56,320 --> 00:13:59,360 Speaker 2: sounds like a total tough guy. And when you step 240 00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:02,040 Speaker 2: back and realized, like, no, this guy just did a 241 00:14:02,080 --> 00:14:04,040 Speaker 2: lot of research and then presented it as if he 242 00:14:04,120 --> 00:14:07,240 Speaker 2: knew what he was talking about. It actually is kind 243 00:14:07,240 --> 00:14:11,400 Speaker 2: of funny, Yes, but we don't pretend like, no, no, No, 244 00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:13,520 Speaker 2: like we've done you know, like we haven't like hung 245 00:14:13,559 --> 00:14:16,080 Speaker 2: out with porcupines or you know. 246 00:14:16,400 --> 00:14:17,440 Speaker 1: We're about that. 247 00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:22,520 Speaker 2: We've never you know, given our expertise on economic policy 248 00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:25,920 Speaker 2: to any government. Like, yes, we're not experts, right, So 249 00:14:25,960 --> 00:14:29,200 Speaker 2: this guy he presented, William Powell, presented himself as an expert. 250 00:14:29,640 --> 00:14:32,400 Speaker 2: And that's just how the book reads. But when you 251 00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:34,440 Speaker 2: step back and think about it like that, it's actually 252 00:14:34,520 --> 00:14:37,200 Speaker 2: kind of funny some of the stuff that's in there. 253 00:14:37,280 --> 00:14:39,760 Speaker 2: Like one thing he did do was draw a lot 254 00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:42,160 Speaker 2: of stuff, and he wasn't a very good artist to 255 00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:45,200 Speaker 2: begin with. But one of the pictures that stood out 256 00:14:45,200 --> 00:14:49,000 Speaker 2: to me, and this is only funny if you look 257 00:14:49,040 --> 00:14:51,440 Speaker 2: at a certain way, it's also very much not funny. 258 00:14:51,760 --> 00:14:54,920 Speaker 2: But there's a section on garrots or garats. I can't 259 00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:57,080 Speaker 2: I can't remember how you pronounce it, which is two 260 00:14:57,200 --> 00:14:59,160 Speaker 2: pieces of wood that you hold in your hands and 261 00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:03,080 Speaker 2: then a piece of like piano wire between them, and 262 00:15:03,120 --> 00:15:06,040 Speaker 2: you strangle somebody with this. And there's a drawing that 263 00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:09,880 Speaker 2: I guess William Powell did of somebody, you know, strangling 264 00:15:09,920 --> 00:15:12,400 Speaker 2: a guy. He's coming at him from behind with his 265 00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:14,800 Speaker 2: knee in his back, like strangling him with the garat 266 00:15:15,320 --> 00:15:19,320 Speaker 2: and just the way that this picture reads and all 267 00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:23,400 Speaker 2: the text around it is just the idea that this 268 00:15:23,600 --> 00:15:26,440 Speaker 2: kid had never done or even seen anything like that, 269 00:15:26,480 --> 00:15:29,680 Speaker 2: but is presenting it like this is how you do it. 270 00:15:29,320 --> 00:15:33,280 Speaker 2: It's just so preposterous and ridiculous that people actually took 271 00:15:33,320 --> 00:15:36,440 Speaker 2: this seriously. It'd be like taking life or death advice 272 00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:37,720 Speaker 2: from Holden Cawfield. 273 00:15:37,800 --> 00:15:41,120 Speaker 1: Basically, yeah, was there. I didn't see that drawing. Was 274 00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:42,760 Speaker 1: there a speech bubble that said. 275 00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:47,680 Speaker 2: Pretty pretty much? Yeah? There? It was implied for sure. 276 00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:48,600 Speaker 1: Okay. 277 00:15:49,200 --> 00:15:51,000 Speaker 2: One other thing that stuck out to me too, Chuck 278 00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:54,400 Speaker 2: was he would just toss out percentages very confidently, and 279 00:15:54,440 --> 00:15:56,480 Speaker 2: if you stop and read it, you're like, I don't 280 00:15:56,520 --> 00:15:59,720 Speaker 2: think that's true. One of them was if in hand 281 00:15:59,760 --> 00:16:02,360 Speaker 2: to hand combat, first of all, you fight to the death. 282 00:16:02,400 --> 00:16:04,680 Speaker 2: That's how you fight hand to hand combat. You're not 283 00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:06,440 Speaker 2: trying to knock the guy out. That was a piece 284 00:16:06,440 --> 00:16:09,240 Speaker 2: of advice in this. But he also says that if 285 00:16:09,240 --> 00:16:13,720 Speaker 2: you can get your opponent knocked off balance, you nine 286 00:16:13,760 --> 00:16:16,240 Speaker 2: to one you can kill him in the next move. 287 00:16:16,440 --> 00:16:18,520 Speaker 2: So nine times out of ten, your next move's going 288 00:16:18,560 --> 00:16:22,240 Speaker 2: to kill the guy. Where did that percentage come from? 289 00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:24,840 Speaker 2: Where did that ratio come from? You can just tell 290 00:16:24,880 --> 00:16:28,840 Speaker 2: he's just making this stuff up. And when you take 291 00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:31,120 Speaker 2: it like that, he just made all of it up essentially. 292 00:16:31,360 --> 00:16:33,440 Speaker 2: And the stuff he didn't make up, he, like you said, 293 00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:36,840 Speaker 2: just copied and pasted from legitimate sources, which is what 294 00:16:37,040 --> 00:16:39,160 Speaker 2: really actually made the book dangerous. 295 00:16:39,560 --> 00:16:43,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, or I mean, at the very least, he may 296 00:16:43,080 --> 00:16:45,800 Speaker 1: have gotten that from someone who made that up, you know, 297 00:16:46,560 --> 00:16:50,120 Speaker 1: I mean, who knows. So there are a lot of 298 00:16:50,120 --> 00:16:51,920 Speaker 1: different things you can you know, we've kind of mentioned 299 00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:53,800 Speaker 1: a few of the things. There's a lot of drug stuff, 300 00:16:54,640 --> 00:16:57,880 Speaker 1: like we mentioned how to make LSD and how to 301 00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:03,960 Speaker 1: generate psychedelic mushrooms and stuff. But there's also a lot 302 00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:09,119 Speaker 1: of you know, weapons stuff, how to kill somebody with 303 00:17:09,160 --> 00:17:13,080 Speaker 1: piano wire and two pieces of wood, like you mentioned, 304 00:17:13,119 --> 00:17:16,080 Speaker 1: how to modify guns, like how to make your own 305 00:17:16,119 --> 00:17:20,800 Speaker 1: silencer or how to convert a shotgun into a grenade launcher. That, yeah, 306 00:17:20,800 --> 00:17:22,119 Speaker 1: that was a real big one. And this is the 307 00:17:22,160 --> 00:17:26,160 Speaker 1: stuff that like, you know, in the I guess maybe 308 00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:28,960 Speaker 1: since the sixties, but at least in the nineties was 309 00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:32,720 Speaker 1: my experience, and it sounds like yours is. When you 310 00:17:32,760 --> 00:17:34,800 Speaker 1: know your friend had it on the bookshelf and they're like, 311 00:17:34,840 --> 00:17:37,159 Speaker 1: look at this man, you know, check this out. And 312 00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:42,080 Speaker 1: it was never like let's build a silencer for a pistol. No, 313 00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:44,840 Speaker 1: none of us had pistols. It was just like check 314 00:17:44,880 --> 00:17:47,439 Speaker 1: this thing out, man, like this is a dangerous book. 315 00:17:47,960 --> 00:17:51,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, and let's do some nutmeg and smoke some banana peals, right, 316 00:17:51,200 --> 00:17:54,000 Speaker 2: because this book is saying, yeah, that was in there too, 317 00:17:54,119 --> 00:17:55,199 Speaker 2: pretty buzzed from it. 318 00:17:55,320 --> 00:17:56,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that was. 319 00:17:56,840 --> 00:17:59,879 Speaker 2: Yeah. So if you've ever heard of smoking banana peals, 320 00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:03,960 Speaker 2: it's this isn't where it came from, but it the 321 00:18:04,119 --> 00:18:08,520 Speaker 2: Anarchist Cookbook cribbed it from I think the Berkeley barbed 322 00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:12,200 Speaker 2: some alternative newsletter. Yeah, like a couple of years before 323 00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:15,280 Speaker 2: smoking banana pels was all the rage in like nineteen 324 00:18:15,359 --> 00:18:18,160 Speaker 2: sixty seven, and then everybody finally figured out it doesn't 325 00:18:18,160 --> 00:18:21,400 Speaker 2: do a thing to you. It was all just basically 326 00:18:21,480 --> 00:18:21,960 Speaker 2: a hoax. 327 00:18:22,040 --> 00:18:25,520 Speaker 1: But it made it or more expensive than just buying weed. Yeah, 328 00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:27,240 Speaker 1: like a two hundred bananas. 329 00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:29,760 Speaker 2: Or something, but allegedly it gave you like a totally 330 00:18:29,760 --> 00:18:32,879 Speaker 2: different trip than weed or ls. So you know, the 331 00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:35,920 Speaker 2: hippies were like, let's try anything we can, and then 332 00:18:36,440 --> 00:18:40,159 Speaker 2: nutmeg actually does have psychedelic properties, but you have to 333 00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:41,760 Speaker 2: take so much of it that you would just be 334 00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:45,920 Speaker 2: hating life from taking that much nutmeg. 335 00:18:46,840 --> 00:18:49,040 Speaker 1: Do you remember the other one, I'm sure this guy 336 00:18:49,080 --> 00:18:52,640 Speaker 1: around was the toothpaste on a cigarette. 337 00:18:53,040 --> 00:18:54,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, and bleach. You had to mix it with bleach. 338 00:18:55,359 --> 00:18:57,359 Speaker 1: Oh, say see, I didn't know that part. I wonder 339 00:18:57,400 --> 00:18:58,680 Speaker 1: it never did anything. 340 00:18:58,400 --> 00:19:02,160 Speaker 2: Toothpaste and bleach. Yeah, which that doesn't do anything either. 341 00:19:03,080 --> 00:19:05,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, by the way, don't try any of this dumb 342 00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:09,800 Speaker 1: stuff that we're kind of jokingly reminiscing about hearing. It 343 00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:13,879 Speaker 1: was a dumb thing to hear back then and spread around, 344 00:19:13,920 --> 00:19:15,800 Speaker 1: and it certainly is now. So none of all of 345 00:19:15,840 --> 00:19:19,159 Speaker 1: this stuff is very much not recommended. 346 00:19:19,440 --> 00:19:22,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's you saying. That reminds me of there's this 347 00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:26,119 Speaker 2: great line from Malcolm in the Middle where I can't 348 00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:29,159 Speaker 2: remember his mom's name, but his mom was like scolding 349 00:19:29,200 --> 00:19:32,800 Speaker 2: his dad about like filling the kid's heads with all 350 00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:37,080 Speaker 2: of these stories of like misspent youth, and his dad goes, 351 00:19:37,119 --> 00:19:40,800 Speaker 2: those are cautionary tales, and she said, cautionary tales don't 352 00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:41,840 Speaker 2: end with it was so. 353 00:19:41,920 --> 00:19:46,080 Speaker 1: Cool, right, that was such a good show. 354 00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:47,520 Speaker 2: It really was a great show. 355 00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:52,600 Speaker 1: But speaking of cautionary there was he did, you know, 356 00:19:52,680 --> 00:19:55,560 Speaker 1: lay out a little caution here and there, used care, caution, 357 00:19:55,720 --> 00:19:58,399 Speaker 1: common sense. This book is not for children or morons, 358 00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:02,600 Speaker 1: was one, even though plenty of children and morons got 359 00:20:02,680 --> 00:20:06,159 Speaker 1: it into their hands. But he, you know, he was 360 00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:10,919 Speaker 1: a sort of a dramatic writer. He I'm not going 361 00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:15,320 Speaker 1: to say he was like untalented as a writer, but 362 00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:17,160 Speaker 1: it's kind of hard to judge the book on those 363 00:20:17,240 --> 00:20:18,600 Speaker 1: terms at all, even, you know. 364 00:20:18,880 --> 00:20:20,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I don't think a single writer in the 365 00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:22,560 Speaker 2: history of the world has ever looked back at what 366 00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:24,840 Speaker 2: they wrote at nineteen and was like this is great. 367 00:20:25,080 --> 00:20:28,560 Speaker 2: Oh god, yeah, you know, it's always cringey. So considering 368 00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:30,439 Speaker 2: that he was nineteen when he wrote it, it's actually 369 00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:31,320 Speaker 2: pretty good writing. 370 00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:33,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, no, good point. 371 00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:36,959 Speaker 2: So yeah, like you said, he did issue some warnings 372 00:20:37,040 --> 00:20:40,560 Speaker 2: and that kind of thing, not necessarily as like a CoA. 373 00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:43,200 Speaker 2: I don't get the impression that William Powell ever even 374 00:20:43,240 --> 00:20:47,639 Speaker 2: considered covering his own rear. 375 00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:51,240 Speaker 1: No, or that I don't even know how much he 376 00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:54,400 Speaker 1: thought about this stuff ahead of time, like people actually 377 00:20:54,440 --> 00:20:55,320 Speaker 1: doing some of the stuff. 378 00:20:55,359 --> 00:20:59,360 Speaker 2: You know. Yeah, I don't know if he just if 379 00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:01,679 Speaker 2: it was like like a bit of a lark like 380 00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:03,399 Speaker 2: that where he was like, I'm just gonna do this 381 00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:06,280 Speaker 2: and didn't think it through, or if he actually was 382 00:21:06,320 --> 00:21:09,719 Speaker 2: like really trying to help people, say a revolution. I'm 383 00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:12,679 Speaker 2: not exactly sure which way it went, but from what 384 00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:15,359 Speaker 2: I've seen, most people site that he was actually quite 385 00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:17,159 Speaker 2: serious when he wrote this book. 386 00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:20,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. But you know, they call it a cookbook. 387 00:21:20,680 --> 00:21:23,680 Speaker 1: There were a lot of kind of quote unquote cookbooks 388 00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:27,159 Speaker 1: that some featured real recipes for things, but some didn't. 389 00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:29,680 Speaker 1: It was more like a collection kind of thing. This 390 00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:36,680 Speaker 1: had plenty of recipes for druggy stuff, pot Brownie's, marijuana butter, 391 00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:40,160 Speaker 1: how to make marijuana mints, and so there were genuine 392 00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:45,080 Speaker 1: sort of drug based recipes in there. But just because 393 00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:47,320 Speaker 1: if you've never heard of the Anarchist Cookbook, it is 394 00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:49,840 Speaker 1: not just like a cookbook obviously. 395 00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:56,280 Speaker 2: No, he also had warnings against sniffing glue or shooting heroin. Yeah, 396 00:21:56,280 --> 00:21:58,080 Speaker 2: it's pretty sensible and level headed. 397 00:21:58,760 --> 00:21:59,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, look at that kid. 398 00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:02,040 Speaker 2: So we put all this together, and I think it's 399 00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:05,960 Speaker 2: like a couple hundred pages, right, and remember it being 400 00:22:06,040 --> 00:22:11,000 Speaker 2: semi thick and like large, large page format, right, Yeah, 401 00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:12,639 Speaker 2: I think so that's what they call it in the 402 00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:14,880 Speaker 2: publishing world, right, large page format. 403 00:22:16,080 --> 00:22:18,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, you really just wanted to have it the spine 404 00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:20,359 Speaker 1: showing on your bookshelf. 405 00:22:20,440 --> 00:22:23,359 Speaker 2: Yeah, or when you carried it around campus, like you 406 00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:25,679 Speaker 2: made sure that your arm wasn't covering the title. 407 00:22:26,600 --> 00:22:29,040 Speaker 1: Oh man, I never saw anyone actually carrying them around. 408 00:22:29,400 --> 00:22:34,040 Speaker 2: So he tried to enter the publishing world with this manuscript. 409 00:22:34,040 --> 00:22:36,760 Speaker 2: He sent it to thirty different houses. He got thirty 410 00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:40,879 Speaker 2: different rejection letters, some like what is wrong with you? 411 00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:45,639 Speaker 2: Others like this isn't quite the fit with our ethos. 412 00:22:45,680 --> 00:22:48,480 Speaker 2: And then somehow, some way, he came into contact with 413 00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:51,399 Speaker 2: a guy named Lyle Stewart. And Lyle Stewart was a 414 00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:55,520 Speaker 2: publisher who just basically wanted to be a provocative publisher, 415 00:22:56,080 --> 00:22:58,760 Speaker 2: and the Anarchist cookbook just fell into his lap and 416 00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:02,159 Speaker 2: he was like, thank you, thank you God, and he 417 00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:03,000 Speaker 2: ran with it. 418 00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:07,639 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, big time. He didn't change a word. He 419 00:23:07,680 --> 00:23:10,119 Speaker 1: was like, this is perfect as it is. Yeah, all 420 00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:12,360 Speaker 1: your drawings are great. You're such a good little drawer boy. 421 00:23:14,280 --> 00:23:16,320 Speaker 1: And he just he wanted it. I think he loved this, 422 00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:20,520 Speaker 1: the idea that the idea of the book, and I 423 00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:23,919 Speaker 1: think any thoughts to changing it were quickly squashed in 424 00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:26,359 Speaker 1: his mind of like no sort of the genius of 425 00:23:26,400 --> 00:23:29,640 Speaker 1: this book to him at least was just how taboo 426 00:23:29,680 --> 00:23:34,359 Speaker 1: it was and it should look like, you know, crazy rantings. 427 00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:37,880 Speaker 1: Because one there's a quote from him that I think 428 00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:41,200 Speaker 1: is pretty telling of like who this guy is and 429 00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:44,360 Speaker 1: also kind of smart for a book publisher. Was that 430 00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:48,960 Speaker 1: I'm paraphrasing, but like, people don't buy a bestseller like 431 00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:51,479 Speaker 1: this to read it. They buy it to have it 432 00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:52,840 Speaker 1: and just show it on the. 433 00:23:52,800 --> 00:23:55,840 Speaker 2: Bookshelf exactly to carry it around campus. 434 00:23:56,080 --> 00:23:58,399 Speaker 1: Yeah, with your arm notut covering up the title. 435 00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:03,679 Speaker 2: So in the hands of Lyle Stewart, like this book 436 00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:07,240 Speaker 2: would take on its life finally, right, it would go 437 00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:10,359 Speaker 2: from the rantings of a nineteen year old kid to 438 00:24:10,960 --> 00:24:14,760 Speaker 2: a legitimately published book that was also heavily promoted by 439 00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:17,639 Speaker 2: a guy who knew how to just play the media 440 00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:22,359 Speaker 2: to get free exposure, essentially, and so he held a 441 00:24:22,400 --> 00:24:29,520 Speaker 2: press conference where somebody supposedly an angry anarchist who was 442 00:24:29,640 --> 00:24:33,639 Speaker 2: mad that this kid was sharing this forbidden information with 443 00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:36,840 Speaker 2: the world, threw a smoke bomb into the press conference 444 00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:42,040 Speaker 2: and everybody like jump for cover. And William Powell later 445 00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:45,280 Speaker 2: said that he noticed that Lyle Stewart didn't dock or 446 00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:48,320 Speaker 2: anything like that. He just kept his position behind the 447 00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:52,040 Speaker 2: podium during the press conference pretty much. And he was 448 00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:55,240 Speaker 2: like Lyle Stewart was just the kind of guy who 449 00:24:55,760 --> 00:24:58,159 Speaker 2: who would think to stage something like that just to 450 00:24:58,680 --> 00:25:03,040 Speaker 2: show how serious anarchistic this book was during the press conference. 451 00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:05,480 Speaker 2: Like that's the kind of promotion that this book got 452 00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:05,880 Speaker 2: from him. 453 00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:10,679 Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely. If you're wondering, like, all right, where is 454 00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:15,000 Speaker 1: our old friend jay Edgar Hoover and the FBI and 455 00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:18,920 Speaker 1: all this, they were on it big time. They took 456 00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:25,280 Speaker 1: this book seriously. They you know, you used to hear rumors. Again, 457 00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:28,280 Speaker 1: these are probably just rumors that never happened about like 458 00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:31,080 Speaker 1: there was a list and like where'd you buy it from? 459 00:25:31,320 --> 00:25:33,159 Speaker 1: And like did you use a credit card? That kind 460 00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:34,879 Speaker 1: of thing, because now you're on a list if you 461 00:25:34,920 --> 00:25:37,439 Speaker 1: own a copy of this thing. It probably didn't go 462 00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:43,160 Speaker 1: that far, but they did question his parents. They questioned 463 00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:46,560 Speaker 1: his dad's colleagues at the un They never questioned Powell, 464 00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:49,800 Speaker 1: like sat him down in person, because they thought it would, 465 00:25:50,119 --> 00:25:51,879 Speaker 1: you know, it would hit the news. What they what 466 00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:53,920 Speaker 1: they wanted to do was kind of quash this thing 467 00:25:54,240 --> 00:25:56,560 Speaker 1: without giving it even more publicity. 468 00:25:56,600 --> 00:26:00,360 Speaker 2: Right, But that didn't stop the media from running with it. 469 00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:03,680 Speaker 2: For sure. There was a headline that Dave, who helped 470 00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:07,160 Speaker 2: us with this, he dug up from UPI that said 471 00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:12,679 Speaker 2: new anarchist cookbook contains recipe for sabotage destruction and so 472 00:26:12,880 --> 00:26:15,919 Speaker 2: as people are reading this, they become genuinely scared of 473 00:26:15,920 --> 00:26:17,960 Speaker 2: this book. So, like you said, Jaegar Hoover is in 474 00:26:18,040 --> 00:26:19,880 Speaker 2: charge of the FBI. I don't know if we said 475 00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:21,520 Speaker 2: or not, but it was published at the beginning in 476 00:26:21,600 --> 00:26:24,879 Speaker 2: nineteen seventy one, so Richard Nixon as president, this is 477 00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:29,120 Speaker 2: not a time where people were cool with free speech 478 00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:31,760 Speaker 2: when it came to you know, making bombs and stuff 479 00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:34,679 Speaker 2: like that. So everybody was like, you guys need to 480 00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:37,720 Speaker 2: investigate this and just get rid of this. People were 481 00:26:38,119 --> 00:26:43,080 Speaker 2: literally sending clippings of like book reviews to Jaegar Hoover 482 00:26:43,240 --> 00:26:45,320 Speaker 2: with like notes written in the margin. I think one 483 00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:48,719 Speaker 2: was danger exclamation point. What are you going to do 484 00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:51,920 Speaker 2: about this? And what's astounding to me is not a 485 00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:54,359 Speaker 2: single head got cracked as far as I can tell, 486 00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:57,600 Speaker 2: And in fact, the FBI was like, we've investigated it, 487 00:26:57,640 --> 00:27:00,919 Speaker 2: and this is all protected by the first amendments as 488 00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:03,439 Speaker 2: reprehensible as we think it is. 489 00:27:04,080 --> 00:27:08,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, which is, you know, a real victory in a way, again, 490 00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:10,399 Speaker 1: as dumb as a book as it ended up being, 491 00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:13,880 Speaker 1: it is a victory for free speech in this country 492 00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:15,840 Speaker 1: to not have the government, even at that time. 493 00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:17,359 Speaker 2: Yeah, especially at that time. 494 00:27:17,560 --> 00:27:20,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, come in and like put their neck on everyone's throat, 495 00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:21,160 Speaker 1: which is kind of surprising. 496 00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:23,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's surprising, and it's also ironic because it was 497 00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:28,879 Speaker 2: exactly that kind of like censorship mentality that William Powell 498 00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:32,160 Speaker 2: was raging against him. Yeah, he tested it, and the system, 499 00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:36,480 Speaker 2: the establishment actually passed. Yeah, it's pretty interesting. They're like, 500 00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:40,520 Speaker 2: we're going to protect your coming book, you little revolutionary yokel. 501 00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:43,639 Speaker 1: Should we take another break? 502 00:27:43,760 --> 00:27:44,959 Speaker 2: Yeah, all right. 503 00:27:45,080 --> 00:27:47,400 Speaker 1: I think anytime you say the word yokle, that's our cue. 504 00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:50,440 Speaker 1: All right. We'll be right back and talk about kind 505 00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:53,399 Speaker 1: of when this book was in the wrong hands. What 506 00:27:53,520 --> 00:27:54,439 Speaker 1: happened right after this? 507 00:28:15,240 --> 00:28:17,399 Speaker 2: All right, Chuck. So you said this book ended up 508 00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:19,240 Speaker 2: in the wrong hands. I guess we said at the 509 00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:21,200 Speaker 2: very outset that it did. So it's not really a 510 00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:24,520 Speaker 2: big twist in the story, but I think the first 511 00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:28,760 Speaker 2: time blood was actually shed, like life was lost because 512 00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:31,760 Speaker 2: of the Anarchist Cookbook, or at least in part, was 513 00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:35,320 Speaker 2: in September of nineteen seventy six, when a group of 514 00:28:35,480 --> 00:28:39,720 Speaker 2: Croatian independence gorillas hijacked a flight from New York to 515 00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:43,240 Speaker 2: Chicago and was like, this plane's going to Paris now, 516 00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:45,840 Speaker 2: and they're like, do you know how many refueling stops 517 00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:47,160 Speaker 2: we're going to have to make? And they said, we 518 00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:50,479 Speaker 2: don't care, just do it. And supposedly, as far as 519 00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:54,040 Speaker 2: hijackings go, it was really polite. I think some of 520 00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:56,960 Speaker 2: the people who were actually hostages later told the press 521 00:28:57,040 --> 00:29:00,480 Speaker 2: like it was almost ridiculous how polite and apologetic these 522 00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:06,160 Speaker 2: terrorists were. And it turned out that the bombs they 523 00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:09,400 Speaker 2: had strapped to themselves were like silly putty and alarm 524 00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:12,840 Speaker 2: clock were not bombs. But one of the demands that 525 00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:15,600 Speaker 2: they had was that the the like Washington Posts and 526 00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:18,080 Speaker 2: some of the other papers, had to print their manifesto 527 00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:20,840 Speaker 2: or else they would set off a real bomb at 528 00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:24,200 Speaker 2: Grand Central Station. And that one actually did turn out 529 00:29:24,240 --> 00:29:24,760 Speaker 2: to be real. 530 00:29:25,760 --> 00:29:30,280 Speaker 1: Yeah. The bomb squad came in from New York City's 531 00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:34,920 Speaker 1: finest very sadly one person was killed. Officer Brian Murray 532 00:29:35,680 --> 00:29:37,880 Speaker 1: was killed trying to diffuse the bomb. A few other 533 00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:44,360 Speaker 1: people were injured. Upon being charged, the hijackers said, we 534 00:29:44,360 --> 00:29:46,480 Speaker 1: we got this information on how to make this bomb 535 00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:50,040 Speaker 1: from the Anarchist cookbook. And that was the first case, 536 00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:54,440 Speaker 1: like you said, of like real bloodshed happening, but not 537 00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:57,600 Speaker 1: the first, you know, like you mentioned, this was found 538 00:29:57,600 --> 00:30:01,360 Speaker 1: on every not everybody, like it seems like any time 539 00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:06,000 Speaker 1: you heard about someone committing some awful violent act against 540 00:30:06,080 --> 00:30:08,280 Speaker 1: either a lot of people or planning something like this. 541 00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:11,880 Speaker 1: This was sort of the one of the textbooks that 542 00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:13,720 Speaker 1: they had on their shelf exactly. 543 00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:17,520 Speaker 2: And by this time, so this is nineteen seventy six, 544 00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:23,400 Speaker 2: William Powell had completely transformed into a different again, more 545 00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:28,400 Speaker 2: grown up Personeah he became an Anglican. He became religious 546 00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:32,120 Speaker 2: that same year. By that time, he'd already gone off 547 00:30:32,160 --> 00:30:37,680 Speaker 2: to college, graduated, worked in Alaska, discovered as his true 548 00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:40,920 Speaker 2: love of educating kids with learning disabilities, like what he 549 00:30:40,960 --> 00:30:43,560 Speaker 2: would keep doing for the rest of his life. And 550 00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:47,160 Speaker 2: so when this when it came out that like this 551 00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:51,440 Speaker 2: is this is actually like now like costing people their lives, 552 00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:55,920 Speaker 2: he was very upset about that. He wanted to distance 553 00:30:56,240 --> 00:31:00,040 Speaker 2: himself from the book. The problem was as we'll see, 554 00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:03,760 Speaker 2: he never owned the copyright. In addition to knowing exactly 555 00:31:03,840 --> 00:31:07,200 Speaker 2: how to promote controversial material, Lyles Stewart also knew how 556 00:31:07,240 --> 00:31:10,200 Speaker 2: to rip off his authors too, so he owned the 557 00:31:10,240 --> 00:31:13,880 Speaker 2: copyright to the Anarchist Cookbook. William Powell just got a 558 00:31:13,920 --> 00:31:17,400 Speaker 2: couple thousand dollars from it and then said, okay, see 559 00:31:17,400 --> 00:31:17,800 Speaker 2: you later. 560 00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:20,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, a couple of thousand dollars up front, I 561 00:31:20,840 --> 00:31:23,000 Speaker 1: think he said. He ended up making about fifty grand 562 00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:27,880 Speaker 1: in royalties over the years, and that was despite him 563 00:31:28,320 --> 00:31:31,080 Speaker 1: wanting to pull it from print. There was a period 564 00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:34,360 Speaker 1: of about eleven years where it was out of print. 565 00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:38,720 Speaker 1: You know. By this point, like in the nineties, he 566 00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:41,320 Speaker 1: was moving sort of all over the world with his wife, 567 00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:45,280 Speaker 1: teaching in the Middle East, teaching in Africa, really doing 568 00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:49,719 Speaker 1: great work. But in ninety one a couple of things happened. 569 00:31:49,720 --> 00:31:53,680 Speaker 1: He was appointed by or appointed as a CEO of 570 00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:58,880 Speaker 1: an international school in Tanzania, and parents complained and were like, hey, 571 00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:00,480 Speaker 1: do you know who this guy is? He wrote the 572 00:32:00,480 --> 00:32:05,200 Speaker 1: Anarchist Cookbook, and they you know, they protested it was 573 00:32:05,240 --> 00:32:08,960 Speaker 1: an anonymous letter to the board and they protested his hiring. Ironically, 574 00:32:09,040 --> 00:32:11,520 Speaker 1: it was that same year that the book actually went 575 00:32:11,520 --> 00:32:13,080 Speaker 1: out of print for a little while, which is what 576 00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:16,480 Speaker 1: he wanted more than anything. In ninety one, it was 577 00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:21,920 Speaker 1: bought by a guy, a publisher named Stephen Schregis, and 578 00:32:22,400 --> 00:32:24,360 Speaker 1: he was a you know, I'm not su sure how 579 00:32:24,400 --> 00:32:26,120 Speaker 1: big time he was, but apparently he had a couple 580 00:32:26,160 --> 00:32:30,360 Speaker 1: of thousand books that he was publishing over this eleven 581 00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:32,160 Speaker 1: year period and that was not one of them. He 582 00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:34,720 Speaker 1: bought the rights and then sat on it and said, 583 00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:37,080 Speaker 1: you know, the public shouldn't have this, and I agree 584 00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:37,400 Speaker 1: with him. 585 00:32:37,520 --> 00:32:38,640 Speaker 2: Oh wow, I didn't know that. 586 00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:40,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, So it was like an eleven year period where 587 00:32:40,960 --> 00:32:42,400 Speaker 1: you know, it was out of print. You could still 588 00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:45,480 Speaker 1: buy it, of course, if you knew someone who had it, 589 00:32:45,560 --> 00:32:47,040 Speaker 1: or if it was in a bookstore or something. It's 590 00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:49,400 Speaker 1: not like it was banned, but he pulled it for 591 00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:50,720 Speaker 1: a little over a decade. 592 00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:55,200 Speaker 2: Well, I think something that's good to know about William 593 00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:57,880 Speaker 2: Powell too. By this time, you said he got forced 594 00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:00,840 Speaker 2: out of his position as CEO of the International School 595 00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:05,120 Speaker 2: in Tanzania for being the author of the Anarchist Cookbook. 596 00:33:06,000 --> 00:33:09,440 Speaker 2: Very shortly after he departed, the board got back in 597 00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:10,959 Speaker 2: touch with them. It was like, please come back, like 598 00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:14,640 Speaker 2: we don't care about this where we like what you're 599 00:33:14,680 --> 00:33:16,360 Speaker 2: doing so much, we want you to come back. So 600 00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:19,120 Speaker 2: he came back for eight more years as the head 601 00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:21,360 Speaker 2: of that school. I think that says quite. 602 00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:25,000 Speaker 1: A bit totally. I don't know. Did you watch the documentary, No, 603 00:33:25,040 --> 00:33:28,920 Speaker 1: I haven't. It's good. There's a documentary called American Anarchists that, 604 00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:33,040 Speaker 1: like you just you really feel for this guy because 605 00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:38,040 Speaker 1: it's a situation where everyone does something dumb or many 606 00:33:38,080 --> 00:33:41,760 Speaker 1: things that are dumb when they're teenagers, and most of 607 00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:44,560 Speaker 1: us are able to escape those and leave those firmly 608 00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:46,280 Speaker 1: in the past and move on and grow up like 609 00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:49,200 Speaker 1: everyone does. And this was a guy that was really 610 00:33:49,240 --> 00:33:52,800 Speaker 1: doing great work and really really really had so much 611 00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:56,800 Speaker 1: regret about this book, but there was just it was 612 00:33:57,320 --> 00:33:59,120 Speaker 1: there's nothing he could do about it. And you could 613 00:33:59,160 --> 00:34:02,120 Speaker 1: feel this guy's pain of like, my name is tied 614 00:34:02,120 --> 00:34:04,400 Speaker 1: to this thing. I just wish it would go away. 615 00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:08,879 Speaker 1: But you never felt like, well like sometimes like, yeah, 616 00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:10,319 Speaker 1: but you did it, so you deserve it. 617 00:34:10,960 --> 00:34:12,960 Speaker 2: Oh you felt like that. No. 618 00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:14,759 Speaker 1: I always felt really bad for the guy with the 619 00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:17,640 Speaker 1: interviews because man, because he just went on to do 620 00:34:17,680 --> 00:34:20,800 Speaker 1: such great work and special ed and like really turned 621 00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:23,920 Speaker 1: things around and kind of had this stamp on him 622 00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:25,200 Speaker 1: for the rest of his life. He had a hard 623 00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:27,600 Speaker 1: time getting work, you know, a lot of times. That's 624 00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:29,440 Speaker 1: one reason he kept kind of moving around. 625 00:34:29,719 --> 00:34:33,040 Speaker 2: Man, that is really sad to He's a very empathetic figure. 626 00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:36,879 Speaker 1: Huh. That's how he came across to me, I guess, 627 00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:37,800 Speaker 1: sympathetic figure. 628 00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:42,200 Speaker 2: So yeah. One reason why he was just like in 629 00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:45,319 Speaker 2: agony I guess over this book, him not being able 630 00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:47,680 Speaker 2: to do anything about this book is because after that 631 00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:54,520 Speaker 2: Croatian separatist incident, like it ended up inspiring more violence, 632 00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:57,960 Speaker 2: like more real world violence. Throughout the eighties and the nineties. 633 00:34:58,239 --> 00:35:00,160 Speaker 2: I mean, from the beginning of the eighties to the 634 00:35:00,239 --> 00:35:03,279 Speaker 2: end of the nineties, there were some really high profile 635 00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:08,319 Speaker 2: mass murders that were carried out, like we said, by 636 00:35:08,320 --> 00:35:11,719 Speaker 2: people who owned the Anarchist Cookbook. So in one way 637 00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:15,200 Speaker 2: or another, they were inspired or even maybe directed in 638 00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:19,600 Speaker 2: some cases in carrying out the crimes that they committed. 639 00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:20,400 Speaker 2: The atrocity. 640 00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:23,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, And he was putting out statements all along. 641 00:35:23,960 --> 00:35:28,200 Speaker 1: He even contacted Amazon to try and get a message 642 00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:31,560 Speaker 1: kind of permanently posted. The central idea of the book 643 00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:34,279 Speaker 1: was that violence is an acceptable means to bring about 644 00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:37,640 Speaker 1: political change. I no longer agree with this. I want 645 00:35:37,640 --> 00:35:40,040 Speaker 1: to stay categorically I'm not in agreement with the contents 646 00:35:40,080 --> 00:35:42,040 Speaker 1: of the Anarchist Cookbook, and I would be very pleased 647 00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:45,480 Speaker 1: and relieved to see its publication discontinued. I consider it 648 00:35:45,480 --> 00:35:49,560 Speaker 1: to be a misguided and potentially dangerous publication which should 649 00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:53,759 Speaker 1: be taken out of print. So yeah, I mean there 650 00:35:53,840 --> 00:35:56,520 Speaker 1: was nothing he could do about it because of Lyles Stewart. 651 00:35:57,480 --> 00:36:00,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, not just Lyles Stuart, but after the guy who 652 00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:03,800 Speaker 2: I guess said on it. Yeah, I think Lyle Stewart 653 00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:07,000 Speaker 2: sought him out and bought it back and it went 654 00:36:07,080 --> 00:36:09,360 Speaker 2: back into print, and then Lyle Stewart sold it to 655 00:36:09,440 --> 00:36:14,320 Speaker 2: another publishing house that owns it now that is keeping 656 00:36:14,360 --> 00:36:17,560 Speaker 2: it in print as well. And the thing to understand 657 00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:20,840 Speaker 2: about this Anarchist Cookbook, it's like that Abby Hoffman steal 658 00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:24,000 Speaker 2: this book thing, Like the idea of it being pirated 659 00:36:24,280 --> 00:36:29,480 Speaker 2: is kind of part of its whole jam, you know. 660 00:36:29,640 --> 00:36:34,160 Speaker 2: So there's so many like ripoff copycat published versions of 661 00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:37,280 Speaker 2: it that you can buy on Amazon and other places, 662 00:36:37,320 --> 00:36:41,880 Speaker 2: like no problem. They're like illegitimate counterfeit copies of the 663 00:36:41,880 --> 00:36:45,000 Speaker 2: anarchist cookbook, but it's still the anarchist cookbook to somebody 664 00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:47,240 Speaker 2: else publishing it as if it's in the public domain. 665 00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:51,000 Speaker 2: And then even if all those people stopped actually physically 666 00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:55,440 Speaker 2: publishing it, it's all over the internet now, Like I 667 00:36:55,480 --> 00:36:58,280 Speaker 2: was reading a PDF version of it on the Internet archive, 668 00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:01,400 Speaker 2: Like it's just out there. The way Dave put it 669 00:37:01,440 --> 00:37:03,640 Speaker 2: was perfect. The geniees out of the bottle, like this 670 00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:07,280 Speaker 2: information is out there now. And unfortunately, you'll probably continue 671 00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:11,120 Speaker 2: to keep inspiring people into acts of violence because of 672 00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:15,879 Speaker 2: that spirit behind it that the government needs to be 673 00:37:16,200 --> 00:37:18,600 Speaker 2: taken to task and overthrown and the people need to 674 00:37:18,680 --> 00:37:19,160 Speaker 2: rise up. 675 00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:23,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, and despite everything he tried to do, it just 676 00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:25,280 Speaker 1: he put it out there and it wouldn't go away. 677 00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:30,960 Speaker 1: He passed away in twenty sixteen, and you know, always 678 00:37:30,960 --> 00:37:33,480 Speaker 1: had great regret about what he had put into the world. 679 00:37:33,719 --> 00:37:37,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, there was one other thing. There was another statement 680 00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:42,400 Speaker 2: he made after I think a school shooting where he 681 00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:45,160 Speaker 2: drew parallels between the work he was doing and then 682 00:37:45,160 --> 00:37:47,400 Speaker 2: the legacy of the book, where he was saying, you know, 683 00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:50,560 Speaker 2: he works with kids who have learning disabilities, and these 684 00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:57,240 Speaker 2: kids are alienated by their disability essentially, and he said, 685 00:37:57,239 --> 00:37:59,520 Speaker 2: no child should have to earn the right to belong, 686 00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:02,960 Speaker 2: And then he turns around and essentially empathizes with the 687 00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:06,440 Speaker 2: kids who are, you know, reading his book and then 688 00:38:06,520 --> 00:38:10,319 Speaker 2: going on and shooting up their schools and saying like, 689 00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:14,400 Speaker 2: these kids, I'm sure are alienated and feel ostracized as well, 690 00:38:14,719 --> 00:38:17,839 Speaker 2: and this book did not help them in any way. 691 00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:22,880 Speaker 2: It did the opposite. Probably. Yeah, yeah, he does seem 692 00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:26,040 Speaker 2: like a pretty amazing guy. I mean, just the work 693 00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:30,080 Speaker 2: that he did afterward is pretty remarkable. I know, he's 694 00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:35,960 Speaker 2: like an internationally renowned educator or he was. Yeah, so yeah, 695 00:38:35,960 --> 00:38:37,879 Speaker 2: in some ways he made up for what he did. 696 00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:40,319 Speaker 1: And I guess if there's any thing to take away 697 00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:42,680 Speaker 1: from this if you're a young person, like we have 698 00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:45,760 Speaker 1: always encouraged people to be bold and use their voice, 699 00:38:45,800 --> 00:38:51,000 Speaker 1: but you know, maybe pump the brakes. You know, think 700 00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:53,160 Speaker 1: about ten years from now. What do you want? Do 701 00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:55,239 Speaker 1: you want that attached to you ten twenty, thirty, forty 702 00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:55,799 Speaker 1: years from now? 703 00:38:56,000 --> 00:38:59,520 Speaker 2: Right? Yeah, if you're writing nonfiction that calls for violence, 704 00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:04,719 Speaker 2: let's just stop and ask somebody, is this a good idea? Right? 705 00:39:06,320 --> 00:39:08,839 Speaker 2: Since Chuck said, right, everybody, you got anything else? 706 00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:09,720 Speaker 1: Nope? 707 00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:13,160 Speaker 2: Since Chuck said, right, and then nope, it's definitely time 708 00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:13,680 Speaker 2: for listener. 709 00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:19,200 Speaker 1: Now. Yeah, I'm gonna call this missed opportunities. This is 710 00:39:19,239 --> 00:39:23,840 Speaker 1: from AR or maybe just R No, it's AR. 711 00:39:24,200 --> 00:39:24,520 Speaker 2: Okay. 712 00:39:25,719 --> 00:39:29,799 Speaker 1: AR is talking about are would a love drug be ethical? Episode? 713 00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:33,759 Speaker 1: That just dropped? And Ar was a former musician and 714 00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:36,200 Speaker 1: thinks we missed a lot of opportunities for band names 715 00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:37,040 Speaker 1: and album titles? 716 00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:38,600 Speaker 2: Ok kill, let's here, all. 717 00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:42,600 Speaker 1: Right, So here we go. You guys did mention sablesco 718 00:39:42,640 --> 00:39:46,360 Speaker 1: and herb as an oregon saxophone combo. I can't remember 719 00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:49,160 Speaker 1: that there were real gyms in there, though, Guys like 720 00:39:49,239 --> 00:39:52,799 Speaker 1: LUs Bucket, Yeah, that's a good one. Okay, experimental love 721 00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:59,239 Speaker 1: drug sure kind of on the nose, Electric roses and philosophers. Yeah, 722 00:39:59,520 --> 00:40:02,240 Speaker 1: it's a little, yeah, a little wordy. 723 00:40:02,400 --> 00:40:05,000 Speaker 2: That sounds like an album title. Then if they're really wordy, 724 00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:06,360 Speaker 2: it's usually an album title. 725 00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:10,360 Speaker 1: Well, here's some album titles or song titles. He felt like, 726 00:40:10,360 --> 00:40:14,360 Speaker 1: we miss you're not good at loving. It's a great 727 00:40:14,440 --> 00:40:18,239 Speaker 1: one that needs a parenthetical, but like, you know, parentheses, 728 00:40:18,360 --> 00:40:24,360 Speaker 1: but you really are right, really low key mellow stuff. Okay, 729 00:40:25,040 --> 00:40:27,640 Speaker 1: I don't know about that. If you dose them, that's 730 00:40:27,640 --> 00:40:32,239 Speaker 1: pretty good and love is good enough. That's a really 731 00:40:32,239 --> 00:40:32,600 Speaker 1: good one. 732 00:40:32,760 --> 00:40:35,000 Speaker 2: That's a great one. I love that. I can't believe 733 00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:36,640 Speaker 2: there's not a song called that already. 734 00:40:37,200 --> 00:40:39,319 Speaker 1: Yeah, well there may be. Ar points out that the 735 00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:41,960 Speaker 1: genres on these guys run the gamut from EDM to country, 736 00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:45,680 Speaker 1: and a really big fan have turned on friends and 737 00:40:45,680 --> 00:40:47,520 Speaker 1: family to the podcast. Just wanted to say, keep doing 738 00:40:47,560 --> 00:40:48,040 Speaker 1: what you're doing. 739 00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:50,319 Speaker 2: Thanks a lot, Ar, That was a great email. We 740 00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:53,400 Speaker 2: appreciate that big time, and as always everybody, if we 741 00:40:53,440 --> 00:40:56,080 Speaker 2: ever walk past a great band name or an album name, 742 00:40:56,160 --> 00:40:58,359 Speaker 2: or a song title or something like that, we want 743 00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:00,799 Speaker 2: to hear from you too. You can wrap it up, 744 00:41:00,840 --> 00:41:02,640 Speaker 2: spank it on the bottom, and send it off to 745 00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:05,600 Speaker 2: Stuff podcast at iHeartRadio dot. 746 00:41:09,080 --> 00:41:11,399 Speaker 1: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. 747 00:41:11,880 --> 00:41:16,239 Speaker 2: For more podcasts myheart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 748 00:41:16,360 --> 00:41:18,160 Speaker 2: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.