1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:10,119 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. You're listening to the 2 00:00:10,119 --> 00:00:13,880 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch us live weekdays at 3 00:00:13,920 --> 00:00:17,119 Speaker 1: noon and five pm Eastern on Apple Coarckley and Android 4 00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:20,520 Speaker 1: Auto with the Bloomberg Business App. Listen on demand wherever 5 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:23,760 Speaker 1: you get your podcasts, or watch us live on YouTube. 6 00:00:25,239 --> 00:00:26,840 Speaker 2: All right, there you have it, live from the Oval 7 00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:31,320 Speaker 2: Office on Bloomberg TV and Radio and extended conversation between 8 00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:35,200 Speaker 2: President Trump, the Saudi Crown Prince MBS in the room, 9 00:00:35,800 --> 00:00:39,320 Speaker 2: and scores of reporters who assembled there, including Bloomberg's and 10 00:00:39,440 --> 00:00:41,559 Speaker 2: Marie Hordern, making some news as you might have just 11 00:00:41,640 --> 00:00:45,640 Speaker 2: heard on potential interviews, and an eventual pick for the 12 00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:48,040 Speaker 2: next FED show, the President pointing to Scott Besson saying 13 00:00:48,040 --> 00:00:52,040 Speaker 2: I wanted this guy, alluding to potentially some more creative 14 00:00:52,120 --> 00:00:55,760 Speaker 2: names as well. I'm Joe Matthew in Washington alongside Michelle Jamrisco. 15 00:00:55,880 --> 00:00:57,880 Speaker 2: This is Balance of Power and we're glad you're with 16 00:00:57,960 --> 00:00:58,760 Speaker 2: us here on. 17 00:00:58,680 --> 00:00:59,520 Speaker 3: The Tuesday edition. 18 00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:02,000 Speaker 2: Michelle, the President made an enormous amount of news there, 19 00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:04,320 Speaker 2: and we can start with what is important to our 20 00:01:04,360 --> 00:01:07,680 Speaker 2: audience for real takeaways. The level of investment that the 21 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:11,080 Speaker 2: Saudis are making in the US. Is what headlined this 22 00:01:11,160 --> 00:01:14,600 Speaker 2: conversation that veered into any number of political and cultural corners. 23 00:01:14,600 --> 00:01:16,759 Speaker 2: The President saying, and it was in fact MBS who 24 00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:20,040 Speaker 2: detailed this, that they're increasing the investment from six hundred 25 00:01:20,120 --> 00:01:23,000 Speaker 2: billion to a trillion dollars. I don't know exactly what 26 00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:24,360 Speaker 2: all that money is going to go to, but the 27 00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:28,080 Speaker 2: President was suggesting he didn't know that news was coming. 28 00:01:28,280 --> 00:01:30,800 Speaker 4: It is important to frame that too, too, because in 29 00:01:30,840 --> 00:01:33,800 Speaker 4: their meeting earlier this year, there was that commitment of 30 00:01:34,040 --> 00:01:37,360 Speaker 4: one trillion dollars, which was the kind of headline commitment 31 00:01:37,400 --> 00:01:40,520 Speaker 4: that Trump was going after. That eventually came down a 32 00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:42,880 Speaker 4: six hundred billion that was a reference today, and now 33 00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:45,480 Speaker 4: Trump is now jaw owning that back up to one 34 00:01:45,520 --> 00:01:49,000 Speaker 4: billion dollars, which MBS did confirm in the meeting. 35 00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:50,760 Speaker 2: So there could be a little bit of fuzzy math here, 36 00:01:50,880 --> 00:01:55,680 Speaker 2: and announcing moneies that have already been allocated has been 37 00:01:55,680 --> 00:01:58,120 Speaker 2: a recurring factor for this president. 38 00:01:58,120 --> 00:01:59,480 Speaker 3: On the idea of advanced chips. 39 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:01,240 Speaker 2: We're going to talk to Mike Shepherd about this in 40 00:02:01,280 --> 00:02:05,360 Speaker 2: a moment with regard to export licenses and Michelle, they 41 00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:08,120 Speaker 2: were talking about actual Blackwell chips from Nvidia, at least 42 00:02:08,160 --> 00:02:10,239 Speaker 2: in reports leading up to this meeting, they're negotiating that 43 00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:10,600 Speaker 2: right now. 44 00:02:10,639 --> 00:02:11,320 Speaker 3: We're working on that. 45 00:02:11,440 --> 00:02:13,880 Speaker 2: Marco Rubio, the Secretary of State, said we may have 46 00:02:13,919 --> 00:02:15,920 Speaker 2: announcements on that later today. 47 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:18,000 Speaker 3: Things got a little chippy. 48 00:02:17,960 --> 00:02:20,200 Speaker 2: With the ABC News reporter Mary Bruce, So we heard 49 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:23,440 Speaker 2: from there a couple of times, first asking about the 50 00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:26,760 Speaker 2: killing of Jamalka Shogi, the anger that nine to eleven 51 00:02:26,880 --> 00:02:30,760 Speaker 2: families shared over this, and actually generator a response from 52 00:02:30,880 --> 00:02:32,480 Speaker 2: MBS which was quite remarkable. 53 00:02:32,560 --> 00:02:35,640 Speaker 4: Yeah, it was really a remarkable exchange there where the 54 00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:38,360 Speaker 4: ABC reporter did bring up, as you mentioned, the case 55 00:02:38,440 --> 00:02:42,200 Speaker 4: that was before everyone in thinking about how to receive 56 00:02:42,760 --> 00:02:46,640 Speaker 4: MBS today, and of course then drew this exchange between 57 00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:49,880 Speaker 4: the two leaders about how Saudi Arabia was actually a 58 00:02:49,919 --> 00:02:52,960 Speaker 4: great leader in human rights is how Trump framed it, 59 00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:56,880 Speaker 4: and talked about his friend really taking care of business 60 00:02:57,240 --> 00:03:00,560 Speaker 4: in the right way. So pretty remark. 61 00:03:00,880 --> 00:03:01,760 Speaker 3: He was offended by that. 62 00:03:01,840 --> 00:03:04,560 Speaker 2: And then the follow on question, to which he threatened 63 00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:09,160 Speaker 2: to have ABC's license as he pulls it pulled talking 64 00:03:09,160 --> 00:03:11,880 Speaker 2: about the vote today on the Epstein files, which is 65 00:03:11,919 --> 00:03:16,120 Speaker 2: anticipated shortly in the House of Representatives that lasted the 66 00:03:16,160 --> 00:03:19,280 Speaker 2: better part of about forty five to fifty minutes. Let's 67 00:03:19,280 --> 00:03:22,160 Speaker 2: bring Mike Sheppard back in here. As we mentioned in 68 00:03:22,160 --> 00:03:25,760 Speaker 2: our Washington Bureau Mike, we just have to step back 69 00:03:25,760 --> 00:03:29,200 Speaker 2: and acknowledge how remarkable this was. No one thought questions 70 00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:32,680 Speaker 2: would even be taken by Mohammed Ben Salomon. Never mind 71 00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:37,720 Speaker 2: this raucous conversation that took place, with questions from all corners. 72 00:03:37,800 --> 00:03:39,640 Speaker 2: We tried to run through a lot of it here. 73 00:03:39,640 --> 00:03:44,320 Speaker 2: But broadly speaking, this attempt to mainstream were normalize MBS 74 00:03:44,320 --> 00:03:45,160 Speaker 2: as well underway. 75 00:03:45,520 --> 00:03:48,840 Speaker 5: It really is Joe and Trump is leaning very heavily 76 00:03:48,840 --> 00:03:52,960 Speaker 5: on this relationship that he has formed with the Saudi 77 00:03:53,400 --> 00:03:56,480 Speaker 5: head of government de facto head of state really in 78 00:03:56,520 --> 00:03:59,560 Speaker 5: a way. And he is doing so not only with 79 00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:03,440 Speaker 5: the ts of the flyover of all the jets that 80 00:04:04,360 --> 00:04:08,680 Speaker 5: coincided and heralded his arrival at the White House, but 81 00:04:08,800 --> 00:04:11,960 Speaker 5: also with this appearance in the Oval Office. It's something 82 00:04:12,040 --> 00:04:15,160 Speaker 5: we've seen him do with so many other foreign leaders, 83 00:04:15,480 --> 00:04:17,360 Speaker 5: with Vladimir Zelenski. 84 00:04:16,880 --> 00:04:19,000 Speaker 6: Of Ukraine, you name it. 85 00:04:19,040 --> 00:04:21,880 Speaker 5: And then tonight there will be a black tie dinner, 86 00:04:22,200 --> 00:04:26,760 Speaker 5: not a state dinner with Capital snd JO, but in 87 00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:29,760 Speaker 5: all but name and the President is really trying to 88 00:04:29,880 --> 00:04:32,440 Speaker 5: roll out the red carpet in so many different ways 89 00:04:32,880 --> 00:04:38,039 Speaker 5: to signify this relationship he has built with the Saudi leader, 90 00:04:38,480 --> 00:04:41,640 Speaker 5: the top Patrolum exporder in the world. 91 00:04:41,640 --> 00:04:43,920 Speaker 6: Saudi Arabia is critical. 92 00:04:43,440 --> 00:04:48,080 Speaker 5: To the President's vision for investment and especially in manufacturing 93 00:04:48,080 --> 00:04:51,960 Speaker 5: here in the United States. You heard Mohammad Ben Salomon 94 00:04:52,120 --> 00:04:55,040 Speaker 5: talk about his desire to expand and invest here in 95 00:04:55,080 --> 00:04:59,320 Speaker 5: the US in areas that include artificial intelligence and data centers, 96 00:04:59,320 --> 00:05:01,640 Speaker 5: and he also talked about it as a two way street. 97 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:05,560 Speaker 5: And we are expecting to see perhaps some license approvals 98 00:05:06,040 --> 00:05:10,359 Speaker 5: for artificial intelligence data centers in Saudi Arabia to be 99 00:05:10,400 --> 00:05:13,279 Speaker 5: able to gain access to those sophisticated US chips. 100 00:05:13,279 --> 00:05:15,040 Speaker 4: Well, it seems like a lot was still pending out 101 00:05:15,040 --> 00:05:17,560 Speaker 4: of the conversation today. But what are you seeing, Mike. 102 00:05:17,640 --> 00:05:19,839 Speaker 4: I mean, you work in the tech world, and there's 103 00:05:19,880 --> 00:05:21,839 Speaker 4: a lot of shock and awe, as we mentioned today, 104 00:05:21,839 --> 00:05:24,760 Speaker 4: out of that availability. But did anything kind of change 105 00:05:24,760 --> 00:05:27,560 Speaker 4: the game and what you heard them discuss around chips 106 00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:29,799 Speaker 4: and the other technology that Saudi could be getting. 107 00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:32,320 Speaker 5: You know, Michelle, it's a great question because we did 108 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:34,479 Speaker 5: kind of go through this exercise in May when the 109 00:05:34,520 --> 00:05:38,640 Speaker 5: President visited Ria, and he also visited the United Arab Emirates, 110 00:05:38,640 --> 00:05:42,159 Speaker 5: and we saw a lot of the same pomp and circumstance, 111 00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:45,479 Speaker 5: but this time for the US leader. And at that 112 00:05:45,640 --> 00:05:48,280 Speaker 5: time we did hear so much talk about deals. The 113 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:51,520 Speaker 5: question will be this time around, how much will be new. 114 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:55,000 Speaker 5: During the president's very first trip to Saudi Arabia after 115 00:05:55,040 --> 00:05:58,600 Speaker 5: taking office in twenty seventeen, during his first term, we 116 00:05:58,640 --> 00:06:02,159 Speaker 5: saw a similar un veiling of so many different agreements, 117 00:06:02,360 --> 00:06:04,840 Speaker 5: yet a number of them were already in the works 118 00:06:04,920 --> 00:06:08,120 Speaker 5: or have been forged or announced prior to his taking office. 119 00:06:08,200 --> 00:06:10,960 Speaker 5: What we'll need to see is how much is building 120 00:06:11,040 --> 00:06:15,039 Speaker 5: upon what was discussed back in May during his first 121 00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:19,120 Speaker 5: visit to the Middle East as his second term in office, 122 00:06:19,360 --> 00:06:22,400 Speaker 5: and then how much new we will see in terms 123 00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:25,440 Speaker 5: of Saudi investment in the US, Like, what are we 124 00:06:25,480 --> 00:06:27,080 Speaker 5: going to see happening here as well? 125 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:28,680 Speaker 2: You know when there are big questions about the AI 126 00:06:28,800 --> 00:06:31,279 Speaker 2: spend right now that we discuss a lot the AI race, 127 00:06:31,800 --> 00:06:35,039 Speaker 2: So what extent will Middle Eastern nations like Saudi Arabia 128 00:06:35,040 --> 00:06:37,279 Speaker 2: and the UAE help to pay for our build out 129 00:06:37,279 --> 00:06:37,920 Speaker 2: here at home? 130 00:06:38,200 --> 00:06:39,760 Speaker 6: Well, it helped to pay for it in a couple 131 00:06:39,760 --> 00:06:40,080 Speaker 6: of ways. 132 00:06:40,120 --> 00:06:44,000 Speaker 5: Joe one is of course using some of their ample 133 00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:46,680 Speaker 5: coffers to be able to finance some of this. There's 134 00:06:46,760 --> 00:06:51,880 Speaker 5: just so much need for money to continue to do 135 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:55,120 Speaker 5: all this expansion of data centers. It's very expensive. All 136 00:06:55,160 --> 00:06:58,440 Speaker 5: those semiconductors are not cheap, nor is the steal and 137 00:06:58,480 --> 00:07:01,760 Speaker 5: everything else has to go in to these AI factories 138 00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:04,960 Speaker 5: is Jensen Wong likes to think of them. But they 139 00:07:04,960 --> 00:07:08,320 Speaker 5: are also going to be an engine Joe of how 140 00:07:08,400 --> 00:07:10,200 Speaker 5: AI will be applied in the future. 141 00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:11,200 Speaker 3: And we know that in the. 142 00:07:11,200 --> 00:07:14,560 Speaker 5: Kingdom they are pushing efforts into autonomous vehicles. This is 143 00:07:14,600 --> 00:07:17,320 Speaker 5: something that you know, we've heard the Nvidia CEO talk 144 00:07:17,360 --> 00:07:22,160 Speaker 5: about and other big AI leaders, including Elon Musk of Tesla. 145 00:07:22,360 --> 00:07:24,360 Speaker 5: They have talked a lot about this, and you can't 146 00:07:24,360 --> 00:07:27,760 Speaker 5: do that kind of art, you know, that kind of 147 00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:30,640 Speaker 5: autonomous driving and other ventures without AI. 148 00:07:30,800 --> 00:07:32,840 Speaker 2: Elon's at the big dinner tonight, right and he is. 149 00:07:32,920 --> 00:07:36,560 Speaker 2: He's scheduled to be Who's who on the list? Mike Shepard, 150 00:07:36,600 --> 00:07:38,400 Speaker 2: thank you so much. As always, always great to have 151 00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:39,960 Speaker 2: chef with us on an important day like this. So 152 00:07:40,040 --> 00:07:41,600 Speaker 2: we're going to keep tabs on what's happening at the 153 00:07:41,600 --> 00:07:44,280 Speaker 2: White House. They're retiring to a lunch now, and then 154 00:07:44,320 --> 00:07:47,080 Speaker 2: of course the big as Mike put at State dinner 155 00:07:47,080 --> 00:07:49,880 Speaker 2: with a small s will take place in the East 156 00:07:49,960 --> 00:07:52,600 Speaker 2: Room a bit later on this evening. We carry on 157 00:07:52,720 --> 00:07:55,200 Speaker 2: here on balance of Power with the voice of Jane 158 00:07:55,200 --> 00:07:58,480 Speaker 2: Harmon and our eyes set on geopolitics. Here the former 159 00:07:58,520 --> 00:08:01,480 Speaker 2: Democratic congresswoman from californ Mornia joins us here, former ranking 160 00:08:01,520 --> 00:08:05,240 Speaker 2: member the House Intelligence Committee, author of Insanity Defense, Why 161 00:08:05,280 --> 00:08:08,920 Speaker 2: our failure to confront hard national security problems makes us 162 00:08:09,040 --> 00:08:12,320 Speaker 2: less safe? The title of that book plays directly into 163 00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:14,480 Speaker 2: our conversation. Jane, and it's great to have you with 164 00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:17,600 Speaker 2: us once again on Bloomberg TV and radio. Should we 165 00:08:17,760 --> 00:08:22,280 Speaker 2: be giving Saudi Arabia AI chips, Blackwells from Nvidia or 166 00:08:22,440 --> 00:08:24,480 Speaker 2: F thirty fives, because it looks like they're getting both 167 00:08:24,480 --> 00:08:26,520 Speaker 2: today they may be. 168 00:08:26,720 --> 00:08:29,880 Speaker 7: My head is spinning talk about Insanity Defense. That was 169 00:08:30,240 --> 00:08:32,040 Speaker 7: a lopper of a press conference. 170 00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:34,000 Speaker 3: Would you make of that session? I can't believe it 171 00:08:34,040 --> 00:08:34,679 Speaker 3: even happened. 172 00:08:35,440 --> 00:08:37,840 Speaker 7: Back it up to the horses in front of the 173 00:08:38,280 --> 00:08:39,080 Speaker 7: of the West Wing. 174 00:08:39,120 --> 00:08:40,559 Speaker 8: I don't remember ever seeing that. 175 00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:44,440 Speaker 7: Plus the flyover and the red carpet or someone who 176 00:08:44,520 --> 00:08:47,160 Speaker 7: is not head of state, but give him credit. I 177 00:08:47,200 --> 00:08:50,120 Speaker 7: was just in Saudi Arabia with the Munich Security Conference, 178 00:08:50,400 --> 00:08:53,480 Speaker 7: and I saw what is a changed reat with women 179 00:08:53,559 --> 00:08:58,680 Speaker 7: driving cars, incubators for startups, and in a climate where 180 00:08:58,880 --> 00:09:03,120 Speaker 7: most of the population is thrilled about MBS's vision twenty 181 00:09:03,240 --> 00:09:06,600 Speaker 7: thirty vision to change his country. No discussion of human 182 00:09:06,679 --> 00:09:09,680 Speaker 7: rights and no real discussion of human rights here today either, 183 00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:13,320 Speaker 7: which I thought was unfortunate. And I thought that the 184 00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:21,200 Speaker 7: president's gratuitous criticism of Mary Brewster of ABC was way 185 00:09:21,240 --> 00:09:23,240 Speaker 7: over the top and unjustified. 186 00:09:23,280 --> 00:09:27,160 Speaker 8: But be that as it made. Answer your question, yeah, I. 187 00:09:27,080 --> 00:09:30,960 Speaker 7: Think there will be more money from Saudi Arabia coming here, 188 00:09:31,040 --> 00:09:32,240 Speaker 7: whether it's a trillion or not. 189 00:09:32,320 --> 00:09:34,520 Speaker 8: It's kind of a soft number as I see it. 190 00:09:35,040 --> 00:09:37,000 Speaker 7: How much we'll go into data centers, how much of 191 00:09:37,040 --> 00:09:41,520 Speaker 7: it will go into job building. What I hear is that, unfortunately, 192 00:09:41,559 --> 00:09:45,080 Speaker 7: AI may take away a huge number of jobs, especially 193 00:09:45,080 --> 00:09:47,959 Speaker 7: in recent college graduates, so that needs to be factored in. 194 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:54,360 Speaker 7: But the economic relationship is pretty solid. There was also 195 00:09:54,440 --> 00:10:00,080 Speaker 7: conversation about everything else, certainly including F thirty five's and 196 00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:02,400 Speaker 7: again that's a little vague, but it does sound like 197 00:10:02,760 --> 00:10:05,400 Speaker 7: we're sending Saudi Arabia the same plane, so that we 198 00:10:05,520 --> 00:10:09,320 Speaker 7: send to Israel, which has never happened before unless Congress intervenes. 199 00:10:09,400 --> 00:10:11,720 Speaker 7: Congress has tried to block sales in the past but 200 00:10:11,800 --> 00:10:15,480 Speaker 7: not been successful. But that sale has been underway. There 201 00:10:15,600 --> 00:10:18,320 Speaker 7: was no conversation or I didn't hear it, in all 202 00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:23,400 Speaker 7: the flow of words about anything about civil nuclear capacity. 203 00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:25,360 Speaker 7: I thought it was good that that was left off 204 00:10:25,480 --> 00:10:29,400 Speaker 7: because that's very complicated and I don't think vague promises. 205 00:10:28,880 --> 00:10:32,440 Speaker 8: Would work there. But this is now a growing relationship. 206 00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:36,080 Speaker 7: The other piece that was discussed was whether there will 207 00:10:36,120 --> 00:10:39,880 Speaker 7: be some Saudi recognition of Israel, and that depends. As 208 00:10:39,920 --> 00:10:43,240 Speaker 7: the Crown Prince said on past the two States, he's 209 00:10:43,360 --> 00:10:46,160 Speaker 7: hanging in for that and that was US policy until 210 00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:49,960 Speaker 7: this administration, and I, as an American, strongly believe that 211 00:10:49,960 --> 00:10:53,480 Speaker 7: that is an Israel's security interest to agree to a 212 00:10:53,520 --> 00:10:55,080 Speaker 7: path to two days. I don't know if b bet 213 00:10:55,080 --> 00:10:58,840 Speaker 7: At Yahu's administration will survive in this form. If he does, 214 00:11:00,160 --> 00:11:03,600 Speaker 7: if Trump wants to settle wars, get huge numbers on 215 00:11:03,640 --> 00:11:07,520 Speaker 7: the board, this, this. 216 00:11:07,480 --> 00:11:12,520 Speaker 8: Torrent of words was in the correct direction. 217 00:11:14,200 --> 00:11:16,199 Speaker 4: Well, Congress, when I want to pick up on one 218 00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:18,600 Speaker 4: item that you mentioned that is the F thirty fives, 219 00:11:18,600 --> 00:11:22,439 Speaker 4: which we among the laundry list of items that the 220 00:11:23,240 --> 00:11:26,560 Speaker 4: Saudi ruler has asked for, that seems to be the 221 00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:29,520 Speaker 4: most sure at this point. How would that change the 222 00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:32,559 Speaker 4: balance of power in the region, the dynamics out there? 223 00:11:32,640 --> 00:11:35,200 Speaker 4: If you know, currently Israel, as you mentioned, is the 224 00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:36,239 Speaker 4: one that has. 225 00:11:36,080 --> 00:11:37,040 Speaker 3: The F thirty five's. 226 00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:40,360 Speaker 4: If Saudi gets them too, what does that change for better? 227 00:11:40,400 --> 00:11:43,040 Speaker 8: And will Israel is unhappy about that? 228 00:11:43,160 --> 00:11:46,840 Speaker 7: It's always had the qualitative edge in military aid. But 229 00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:50,600 Speaker 7: you know, this has been a very complicated period since 230 00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:54,520 Speaker 7: October seven, and I think Israel's use of some of 231 00:11:54,559 --> 00:11:59,079 Speaker 7: its material has been criticized, certainly by the United States Congress. 232 00:11:59,120 --> 00:12:02,800 Speaker 7: So I think there may be appetite to do other 233 00:12:02,880 --> 00:12:05,200 Speaker 7: defense deals. It means a lot of money to the US. 234 00:12:05,400 --> 00:12:08,040 Speaker 7: Trump was very careful. Let me underscore this because I 235 00:12:08,080 --> 00:12:11,240 Speaker 7: know it's true for Israel too, to I forget the 236 00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:13,440 Speaker 7: use of words, but two or three words to say 237 00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:18,840 Speaker 7: that this is not our most advanced software that F 238 00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:21,520 Speaker 7: thirty five's contain in the United States. And there is 239 00:12:21,559 --> 00:12:26,000 Speaker 7: a worry, of course that Saudi has a deal with China, 240 00:12:26,120 --> 00:12:29,319 Speaker 7: but I'm sure that to get these planes, they will 241 00:12:29,360 --> 00:12:32,920 Speaker 7: have to promise that they won't share the technology. And oh, 242 00:12:32,960 --> 00:12:35,800 Speaker 7: by the way, I can imagine that China is probably 243 00:12:35,880 --> 00:12:38,960 Speaker 7: pretty a student trying to reverse engineer a lot of 244 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:41,320 Speaker 7: our material, not just to Saudi Arabia. 245 00:12:41,360 --> 00:12:45,319 Speaker 8: But I'm okay with that deal. 246 00:12:45,480 --> 00:12:48,600 Speaker 7: I think I'm not okay if we start on a 247 00:12:48,640 --> 00:12:52,640 Speaker 7: path to sharing or permitting more nuclear developments in the 248 00:12:52,679 --> 00:12:56,120 Speaker 7: Middle East unless we absolutely know that won't spurn arms 249 00:12:56,200 --> 00:12:59,920 Speaker 7: race and undo whatever progress Trump claims he's just made 250 00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:00,520 Speaker 7: with Iran. 251 00:13:01,120 --> 00:13:02,720 Speaker 8: That would be very unfortunate. 252 00:13:03,920 --> 00:13:05,640 Speaker 2: Jane Harmon, We're lucky to have you with us for 253 00:13:05,679 --> 00:13:08,320 Speaker 2: a couple of reasons. We just have breaking news now 254 00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:11,720 Speaker 2: coming from Texas in a pretty remarkable headline we didn't 255 00:13:11,720 --> 00:13:14,360 Speaker 2: expect to see today. And you can put your hat 256 00:13:14,400 --> 00:13:17,240 Speaker 2: on as a former member of Congress for this one 257 00:13:17,800 --> 00:13:22,600 Speaker 2: to interrupt with a completely different story. Texas, the Texas 258 00:13:22,640 --> 00:13:26,280 Speaker 2: redistricting map has been thrown out by a judge. Texas 259 00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:30,280 Speaker 2: cannot use this new redrawn map drawn by Republicans in 260 00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:34,679 Speaker 2: hopes of generating what another five additional Republican House seats. 261 00:13:34,960 --> 00:13:37,600 Speaker 2: This is from a panel of three judges just ruling 262 00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:40,880 Speaker 2: today a massive blow to President Trump's efforts to redraw 263 00:13:40,880 --> 00:13:43,880 Speaker 2: the congressional map, and it of course follows Prop fifty 264 00:13:43,960 --> 00:13:47,280 Speaker 2: passing in California. That you know a thing or two about, 265 00:13:47,880 --> 00:13:50,800 Speaker 2: Jane Harmon is are we going to find that Gavin 266 00:13:50,880 --> 00:13:53,560 Speaker 2: Newsom actually has the upper hand at the end of 267 00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:56,559 Speaker 2: this event or are all these maps being redrawn off 268 00:13:56,559 --> 00:13:57,720 Speaker 2: schedule going to be a problem? 269 00:13:57,760 --> 00:13:57,920 Speaker 9: Now? 270 00:13:58,840 --> 00:14:00,000 Speaker 8: Who knows? 271 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:03,360 Speaker 7: The district in arms race is very troubling to someone 272 00:14:03,480 --> 00:14:07,640 Speaker 7: like me who was strongly for the commissions in California. 273 00:14:07,920 --> 00:14:10,199 Speaker 7: But hey, you know, if Texas is doing it, California 274 00:14:10,280 --> 00:14:13,240 Speaker 7: is going to do it. This was a lower court decision, 275 00:14:13,280 --> 00:14:15,320 Speaker 7: I'm sure, Joe. So it's going to be challenged and 276 00:14:15,400 --> 00:14:18,160 Speaker 7: let's see what happens is it goes up the ladder 277 00:14:18,400 --> 00:14:20,880 Speaker 7: and the California plan will also be challenged. 278 00:14:20,920 --> 00:14:22,240 Speaker 8: I don't know where this ends up. 279 00:14:22,320 --> 00:14:25,520 Speaker 7: I mean, some of the speculation is quite amusing that 280 00:14:26,160 --> 00:14:29,280 Speaker 7: the people people expect to win these seats may not 281 00:14:29,400 --> 00:14:32,320 Speaker 7: win them. I just think it's a tragedy to the 282 00:14:32,440 --> 00:14:37,600 Speaker 7: voters of the United States that the decade, the observance 283 00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:39,960 Speaker 7: that is set up by the Constitution, that we'd redo 284 00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:43,920 Speaker 7: the population statistics every decade is not going to be respected. 285 00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:47,280 Speaker 7: But I do understand why California did what it did 286 00:14:47,600 --> 00:14:48,880 Speaker 7: in response to Texas. 287 00:14:48,920 --> 00:14:49,800 Speaker 8: So let's see. 288 00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:52,160 Speaker 7: I mean, this is one of the more exciting news 289 00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:54,400 Speaker 7: days of ever. What else is going to happen in now? 290 00:14:54,760 --> 00:14:55,360 Speaker 3: That's true? 291 00:14:55,720 --> 00:14:58,360 Speaker 6: My God, certainly a lot to unpack here. 292 00:14:58,400 --> 00:15:01,200 Speaker 4: But as that Texas rually has come down, we certainly 293 00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:04,800 Speaker 4: are also watching Indiana. Congressman, I wonder our thoughts on 294 00:15:05,280 --> 00:15:07,920 Speaker 4: where things go from there. Of course, the President has 295 00:15:07,960 --> 00:15:10,800 Speaker 4: been applying a lot of pressure on his fellow Republicans 296 00:15:10,800 --> 00:15:11,240 Speaker 4: in the state. 297 00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:15,800 Speaker 7: Well, I think it doesn't end there. I think a 298 00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:17,480 Speaker 7: lot of other states are going to try to get 299 00:15:17,480 --> 00:15:20,120 Speaker 7: into the game. Sadly, I think the game is sad. 300 00:15:20,280 --> 00:15:22,720 Speaker 7: That is really my point. I think the decision of 301 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:25,480 Speaker 7: voter should not be interfered with. But be that as 302 00:15:25,480 --> 00:15:29,080 Speaker 7: it may, I'm certainly not going to watch or sit 303 00:15:29,160 --> 00:15:37,520 Speaker 7: by as some in this administration try to prejudice the 304 00:15:37,560 --> 00:15:40,560 Speaker 7: fair votes of Americans in the next cycle. I don't 305 00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:44,840 Speaker 7: think that's right. So let's see what the courts side. 306 00:15:46,040 --> 00:15:49,000 Speaker 7: As someone who cared intensely about the Voting Rights Act 307 00:15:49,040 --> 00:15:51,960 Speaker 7: back in the day, I thought it was wonderful that 308 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:54,360 Speaker 7: we were enfranchising all voters. 309 00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:57,320 Speaker 8: Now to see us dis enfranchising. 310 00:15:56,760 --> 00:16:00,920 Speaker 7: Voters is a really sorry chapter in the America democratic story. 311 00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:04,280 Speaker 7: And one more point on human rights, because I think 312 00:16:04,360 --> 00:16:07,320 Speaker 7: human rights were really not discussed in this press conference. 313 00:16:08,600 --> 00:16:12,000 Speaker 8: I would say MBS has a way still to. 314 00:16:12,560 --> 00:16:16,720 Speaker 7: Justify what happened a few years ago with the journalist Koushoji. 315 00:16:17,360 --> 00:16:20,360 Speaker 7: He didn't really face it in the questions today. And 316 00:16:20,440 --> 00:16:25,640 Speaker 7: I would also say that our US case for moral 317 00:16:25,680 --> 00:16:27,280 Speaker 7: authority is a. 318 00:16:27,200 --> 00:16:30,120 Speaker 8: Bit tarnished lately too by some actions of this administration. 319 00:16:30,560 --> 00:16:35,320 Speaker 7: And in both of those make me sad because democracy 320 00:16:35,600 --> 00:16:37,480 Speaker 7: needs needs to be. 321 00:16:37,520 --> 00:16:38,720 Speaker 8: Robust in this world. 322 00:16:38,760 --> 00:16:41,520 Speaker 7: It's the latter for the people of this world who 323 00:16:41,560 --> 00:16:43,120 Speaker 7: deserve respect and opportunity. 324 00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:46,320 Speaker 2: Jane, it's great to have you. Thank you so much 325 00:16:46,360 --> 00:16:48,640 Speaker 2: for weighing in on all of these stories. That's of course. 326 00:16:48,680 --> 00:16:52,520 Speaker 2: Jane Harmon, the former congresswoman from California, former ranking member 327 00:16:52,560 --> 00:16:54,160 Speaker 2: of the House Intel Committee. 328 00:16:53,920 --> 00:16:55,160 Speaker 3: With us on Balance of Power. 329 00:16:55,160 --> 00:16:56,920 Speaker 6: We'll have much more coming up after this. 330 00:17:02,360 --> 00:17:05,840 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power podcast. Catch 331 00:17:05,880 --> 00:17:08,879 Speaker 1: us live weekdays at noon and five pm Eastern on 332 00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:12,320 Speaker 1: Alma Coarcley and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business App, 333 00:17:12,440 --> 00:17:15,680 Speaker 1: listen on demand wherever you get your podcasts, or watch 334 00:17:15,800 --> 00:17:18,440 Speaker 1: us live on YouTube. 335 00:17:18,560 --> 00:17:19,800 Speaker 3: We want to assemble our panel. 336 00:17:19,840 --> 00:17:21,840 Speaker 2: We're going to stay live here as we go into 337 00:17:21,840 --> 00:17:24,920 Speaker 2: overtime with now a third story that we're watching. We've 338 00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:27,760 Speaker 2: got the MBS visit at the White House that generated 339 00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:31,080 Speaker 2: one of the most remarkable news conferences we've probably ever seen, 340 00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:33,560 Speaker 2: or at least briefing with reporters in the Oval Office. 341 00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:36,159 Speaker 2: We've got a vote today and imminent vote here on 342 00:17:36,320 --> 00:17:39,119 Speaker 2: releasing the Jeffrey Epstein files in the House, and now 343 00:17:39,200 --> 00:17:42,159 Speaker 2: dropped in our lap just about five minutes ago news 344 00:17:42,200 --> 00:17:45,800 Speaker 2: that the Texas redistricting map is being thrown out by 345 00:17:45,800 --> 00:17:48,280 Speaker 2: a lower court, and I can only assume this is 346 00:17:48,320 --> 00:17:49,480 Speaker 2: going to the Supreme Court. 347 00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:50,560 Speaker 3: Let's bring in our panel. 348 00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:54,080 Speaker 2: Lester Munson is with us today, Republican strategist and head 349 00:17:54,119 --> 00:17:56,919 Speaker 2: of the international practice at BGR Group. And of course 350 00:17:57,320 --> 00:18:01,720 Speaker 2: Genie Shanzano is here Bloomberg Politics contributor, democratic analyst and 351 00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:05,960 Speaker 2: democracy visiting fellow at Harvard Kennedy School's Ash Center. Jeanie, 352 00:18:06,080 --> 00:18:08,159 Speaker 2: I am not sure where to begin here, so I 353 00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:10,600 Speaker 2: guess we'll go with the most recent What does this 354 00:18:10,720 --> 00:18:14,080 Speaker 2: mean about a national rewriting of congressional maps if it 355 00:18:14,119 --> 00:18:15,440 Speaker 2: cannot happen in Texas. 356 00:18:17,240 --> 00:18:21,479 Speaker 10: Yeah, I mean this is not surprising development. I'm sure 357 00:18:21,560 --> 00:18:24,080 Speaker 10: that it will be appealed to your point, right up 358 00:18:24,119 --> 00:18:27,119 Speaker 10: to the Supreme Court. But this was always the risk 359 00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:30,159 Speaker 10: of this strategy. And you know, just sitting here with 360 00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:35,560 Speaker 10: you watching this amazing White House Press avail, so much 361 00:18:35,560 --> 00:18:37,400 Speaker 10: of what the President was trying to do in there 362 00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:39,600 Speaker 10: was focused on domestic policy. 363 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:41,439 Speaker 8: He knows he's in trouble. 364 00:18:41,640 --> 00:18:44,919 Speaker 10: Republicans are in trouble in the midterm, and of course 365 00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:49,400 Speaker 10: one way to avoid that was to redistrict in Texas 366 00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:51,720 Speaker 10: and pick up these five seats. And so this is 367 00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:55,520 Speaker 10: a huge blow to Republicans, but of course it may 368 00:18:55,560 --> 00:18:58,600 Speaker 10: be matched by big blows to Democrats, so we really 369 00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:01,960 Speaker 10: are still in the same situation. This is a very 370 00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:06,800 Speaker 10: precarious way to try to move forward politically for any party. 371 00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:09,919 Speaker 10: You are better off appealing to voters by focusing on 372 00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:12,359 Speaker 10: what they care about than trying to redraw maps. 373 00:19:12,400 --> 00:19:13,719 Speaker 8: It's a risky strategy. 374 00:19:15,040 --> 00:19:16,840 Speaker 4: Well, Lester, I want to pick up on that, you know, 375 00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:19,680 Speaker 4: amid all that's happened today, As Joe said, it's hard 376 00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:21,879 Speaker 4: to know where to start, but just starting off on 377 00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:24,720 Speaker 4: you know what Genie's talking about here and what the 378 00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:28,080 Speaker 4: congressman address. How dangerous is it for Trump to keep 379 00:19:28,119 --> 00:19:32,439 Speaker 4: pushing this line on redistricting to the extent that you know, 380 00:19:32,640 --> 00:19:35,120 Speaker 4: does become this battle back and forth between the parties, 381 00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:38,359 Speaker 4: I mean dangerous for arguably both parties. So how do 382 00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:38,800 Speaker 4: you see it? 383 00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:42,320 Speaker 9: Look, I think the reality is this was already dangerous. 384 00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:46,000 Speaker 9: We were already in a situation where states were so 385 00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:50,520 Speaker 9: jerrymandered that the number of seats held by certain parties 386 00:19:50,560 --> 00:19:54,800 Speaker 9: didn't come close to their actual vote. I'm from Illinois originally, 387 00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:59,120 Speaker 9: I think there's seventeen congressional districts. Three are held by Republicans, 388 00:19:59,280 --> 00:20:02,680 Speaker 9: less than twenty twenty percent, and yet Republicans regularly get 389 00:20:02,760 --> 00:20:05,000 Speaker 9: forty or forty five percent of the statewide vote. So 390 00:20:05,600 --> 00:20:08,760 Speaker 9: this is already going on. Yes, Trump turns the volume 391 00:20:08,840 --> 00:20:11,320 Speaker 9: up to eleven to quote spinal taps on a lot 392 00:20:11,359 --> 00:20:13,199 Speaker 9: of these issues. It's kind of what he does. But 393 00:20:13,280 --> 00:20:16,680 Speaker 9: he's not inventing the issue. This fight was already going on, 394 00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:19,000 Speaker 9: and maybe it's a good thing that it's kind of 395 00:20:19,040 --> 00:20:21,720 Speaker 9: elevated and maybe we get some sort of national resolution 396 00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:24,160 Speaker 9: of this and a way forward that's more sensible, because 397 00:20:24,200 --> 00:20:26,639 Speaker 9: these redistricting plans are bananas on both sides. 398 00:20:26,680 --> 00:20:28,320 Speaker 2: Wow, how about well, he may have just turned it 399 00:20:28,400 --> 00:20:31,479 Speaker 2: up to twelve Lester on truth social Just now as 400 00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:34,480 Speaker 2: we're talking, Jennie, President Trump writes, I am working with 401 00:20:34,560 --> 00:20:39,000 Speaker 2: Governor Mike Brawn and other Indiana Republicans. Michelle just mentioned 402 00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:42,679 Speaker 2: Indiana on picking up two Republican congressional seats. The governor, 403 00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:45,240 Speaker 2: a good man, must produce on this, he says, or 404 00:20:45,240 --> 00:20:48,919 Speaker 2: he will be the only governor, Republican or Democrat who didn't, 405 00:20:49,240 --> 00:20:51,960 Speaker 2: which is clearly not true. I want Indiana, he says, 406 00:20:51,960 --> 00:20:54,080 Speaker 2: in a landslide, the most votes ever gotten in the state. 407 00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:57,560 Speaker 2: Such an honor a Rhino State Senator Roderick Bray doesn't 408 00:20:57,560 --> 00:20:59,800 Speaker 2: care about keeping the majority in the House in DC is. 409 00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:00,720 Speaker 3: The primary problem. 410 00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:04,120 Speaker 2: Soon, Donald Trump writes, he will have a primary problem, 411 00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:08,240 Speaker 2: as will any other politician who supports him in this stupidity. 412 00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:10,760 Speaker 2: Thank you for your attention to this matter. He's not 413 00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:12,560 Speaker 2: done with the pressure play here, Genie, is. 414 00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:14,520 Speaker 8: He He is not. 415 00:21:14,920 --> 00:21:17,000 Speaker 10: And this has been one of the startling things about 416 00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:19,239 Speaker 10: the last couple of weeks we have seen again and 417 00:21:19,280 --> 00:21:22,760 Speaker 10: again and again, for the first time in this second administration, 418 00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:26,639 Speaker 10: Republicans saying they are not going to abide by the 419 00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:30,159 Speaker 10: president's wishes. He is pushing back hard on that, but 420 00:21:30,280 --> 00:21:32,840 Speaker 10: we are seeing it repeatedly. I mean, this vote that's 421 00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:35,520 Speaker 10: going on in Congress today, we may get a unanimous 422 00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:39,200 Speaker 10: vote to release those files against the president's initial wishes. 423 00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:42,240 Speaker 10: What we've seen on redistricting over and over again, we 424 00:21:42,280 --> 00:21:44,040 Speaker 10: are seeing Republicans. 425 00:21:43,359 --> 00:21:44,760 Speaker 8: Say not in my state. 426 00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:49,280 Speaker 10: So the President has a problem on this side, and 427 00:21:49,440 --> 00:21:51,919 Speaker 10: he is starting to see the reality of living in 428 00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:56,280 Speaker 10: a divided, separated system. You don't get everything you want. 429 00:21:56,359 --> 00:21:58,640 Speaker 10: And this is not a comfortable place for the president 430 00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:00,840 Speaker 10: to be. And I think we a little bit of 431 00:22:00,880 --> 00:22:03,439 Speaker 10: the wrath and the anger he feels when he was 432 00:22:03,480 --> 00:22:07,280 Speaker 10: responding to Mary Bruce from ABC. He does not like 433 00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:09,879 Speaker 10: to be in the system of democracy that we have 434 00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:13,920 Speaker 10: in this country where he is forced, like all other politicians, 435 00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:17,280 Speaker 10: to answer questions and to have the compromise and not 436 00:22:17,320 --> 00:22:18,240 Speaker 10: always get his way. 437 00:22:19,600 --> 00:22:22,560 Speaker 4: Well, Genie is speaking of uncomfortable positions. And we've talked 438 00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:26,400 Speaker 4: about this certainly all week and all month and all year, arguably, 439 00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:28,800 Speaker 4: but today we get the big Epstein vote in the House. 440 00:22:29,320 --> 00:22:31,480 Speaker 4: What are you watching for in terms of reaction from 441 00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:34,600 Speaker 4: the White House taking things politically from here? 442 00:22:35,920 --> 00:22:36,800 Speaker 8: Yeah, I think we. 443 00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:39,920 Speaker 10: Saw in that press conference how frustrated the President is 444 00:22:39,960 --> 00:22:42,440 Speaker 10: to even be asked about this and how he wants 445 00:22:42,560 --> 00:22:44,280 Speaker 10: to turn it on the Democrats. 446 00:22:45,040 --> 00:22:46,560 Speaker 8: I think what we're watching. 447 00:22:46,240 --> 00:22:49,240 Speaker 10: For is what happens really first in the Senate. I 448 00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:51,480 Speaker 10: think we will get a vote there and the President 449 00:22:51,520 --> 00:22:53,800 Speaker 10: has said he will sign it. But I'm most focused 450 00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:56,920 Speaker 10: on what happens in the DOJ. I agree with Tom 451 00:22:56,960 --> 00:23:00,359 Speaker 10: Massey that it is likely a smoke screen this investigation, 452 00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:03,520 Speaker 10: under which they are going to say, we can only 453 00:23:03,560 --> 00:23:05,800 Speaker 10: release some of these files and we are going to 454 00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:08,159 Speaker 10: be right back to square one, which is I think 455 00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:10,879 Speaker 10: a problem for the president because this is not going away. 456 00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:14,560 Speaker 3: About a minute left Leicester the votes today. 457 00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:17,600 Speaker 2: Maybe the President makes in order he could have those 458 00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:18,840 Speaker 2: files released if you wanted to. 459 00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:22,560 Speaker 3: Will we ever see them? Well, we're getting little parts 460 00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:24,080 Speaker 3: of them. We're get kind of day by day. 461 00:23:24,240 --> 00:23:26,960 Speaker 2: Right, Well, we see something incriminating that don't we want 462 00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:27,399 Speaker 2: to be waiting for? 463 00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:29,320 Speaker 9: Don't we want the story to last for a long time? 464 00:23:29,440 --> 00:23:31,880 Speaker 9: I mean, this is this is the best clickbait out there. 465 00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:35,479 Speaker 9: It's been on the front page for months. Well, that's true. 466 00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:37,360 Speaker 9: I don't know how it's going to end. I don't 467 00:23:37,359 --> 00:23:39,520 Speaker 9: pretend to. The administration could release the files if they 468 00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:41,639 Speaker 9: wanted to, right, They don't need the congressional vote. 469 00:23:41,720 --> 00:23:41,920 Speaker 6: Right. 470 00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:44,720 Speaker 9: So there's a lot of kabooki theater going on here. 471 00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:47,240 Speaker 2: Kabuki theater with none other than Lester Months and thank you, 472 00:23:47,280 --> 00:23:50,640 Speaker 2: sir and Jeanie Shanzino are great panel today. Bloomberg Politics 473 00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:54,280 Speaker 2: contributor Genie, thank you. Of course, we'll have much more 474 00:23:54,320 --> 00:23:56,199 Speaker 2: straight ahead here on Balance of Power. In fact, we're 475 00:23:56,200 --> 00:24:00,160 Speaker 2: going to spend some time with former Republican Congressman Denver Wriggleman, 476 00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:04,040 Speaker 2: who now runs an AI company, speaking to what's happening 477 00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:06,440 Speaker 2: at the White House and knows a thing or two 478 00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:09,480 Speaker 2: about the House of Representatives. We'll have that straight ahead 479 00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:12,679 Speaker 2: here on Balance of Power. Only on Bloomberg TV and radio. 480 00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:17,440 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Balance of Power Podcast. Catch 481 00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:20,600 Speaker 1: us live weekdays at noon and five pm Eastern on 482 00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:23,920 Speaker 1: Apple Cockway and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. 483 00:24:23,960 --> 00:24:27,000 Speaker 1: You can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our 484 00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:28,320 Speaker 1: flagship New York station. 485 00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:31,520 Speaker 3: Just say Alexa, play Bloomberg eleven thirty. 486 00:24:32,960 --> 00:24:36,159 Speaker 2: You're on Bloomberg TV at radio alongside Michelle Jim Risco. 487 00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:40,360 Speaker 2: I'm Joe Matthew, having survived the near hour long news conference, 488 00:24:40,400 --> 00:24:42,600 Speaker 2: So if we can call it that, briefing with reporters 489 00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:45,280 Speaker 2: in the Oval Office. And what is a big day 490 00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:49,159 Speaker 2: here in Washington MBS The Saudi Crown Prince visiting with 491 00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:52,160 Speaker 2: Donald Trump and they're going to have a state dinner 492 00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:54,280 Speaker 2: following their meetings and lunch together. But we need a 493 00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:56,000 Speaker 2: bit of a status check here because it's been an 494 00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:59,360 Speaker 2: incredibly busy day. We are also anticipating a short time 495 00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:01,919 Speaker 2: from now vote in the House of Representatives on a 496 00:25:01,960 --> 00:25:06,280 Speaker 2: discharge petition that would force the disclosure of the Jeffrey 497 00:25:06,280 --> 00:25:10,719 Speaker 2: Epstein files. Knowing now that President Trump is backing that effort, 498 00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:13,400 Speaker 2: telling Republicans to vote for it. Some suggest we could 499 00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:17,160 Speaker 2: see a unanimous result. And a short time ago this hour, 500 00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:22,000 Speaker 2: we learned that federal judges have blocked Texas's redistricting map, 501 00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:25,960 Speaker 2: that which prompted Prop fifty in California and a national 502 00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:28,879 Speaker 2: effort to redraw maps in time for the midterm elections. 503 00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:31,800 Speaker 2: That story just emerging now on what has become a 504 00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:36,640 Speaker 2: doozy of a day in political news, Michelle, we think 505 00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:40,359 Speaker 2: about the proper voice at a time like this, Someone 506 00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:44,800 Speaker 2: with military and national security experience has dabbled in the 507 00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:48,080 Speaker 2: AI field, in fact, has his own AI company now. 508 00:25:48,119 --> 00:25:50,199 Speaker 2: Somebody who served as a Republican in the House of 509 00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:53,000 Speaker 2: Representatives at the time that all this stuff with Epstein 510 00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:53,600 Speaker 2: was happening. 511 00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:55,600 Speaker 3: I think his name is Denver. 512 00:25:56,600 --> 00:25:59,560 Speaker 4: I think he's a perfect guest to have on today, certainly, 513 00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:02,280 Speaker 4: and how's your heart rate? That it is quite a 514 00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:04,120 Speaker 4: day and doozy of a day, as you say, in 515 00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:07,600 Speaker 4: political news, and certainly a lot to still unpack from 516 00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:10,600 Speaker 4: the NBS visit, which is ongoing, as you say, and 517 00:26:11,119 --> 00:26:13,320 Speaker 4: through tomorrow we could be getting news about what these 518 00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:14,600 Speaker 4: deals actually might mean. 519 00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:17,240 Speaker 2: Indeed, and so the Denver I refer to, of course, 520 00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:21,040 Speaker 2: as the former Republican Congressman Denver Riggleman, who's with us 521 00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:24,520 Speaker 2: from Virginia. As always, Denver, it's great to see you. 522 00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:28,200 Speaker 2: Thank you so much for joining us. We could talk 523 00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:30,479 Speaker 2: about all of these stories, are just one of them. 524 00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:32,679 Speaker 2: I'm going to get in with you here on AI 525 00:26:32,840 --> 00:26:35,119 Speaker 2: because you know what it's like to actually purchase and 526 00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:38,320 Speaker 2: operate a Blackwell chip And it looks like the Saudis 527 00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:40,160 Speaker 2: are going to be the next ones on the list 528 00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:43,560 Speaker 2: here with all the talk of national security concerns and 529 00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:47,400 Speaker 2: export controls with China, is Saudi Arabia the right country 530 00:26:47,760 --> 00:26:48,880 Speaker 2: to be next on the list? 531 00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:53,160 Speaker 11: No? I think you know what's amazing to me right now, Joe, 532 00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:54,879 Speaker 11: and all the things that you see right now in 533 00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:58,480 Speaker 11: the House representatives with the chip roys talking about, you know, 534 00:26:58,520 --> 00:27:01,800 Speaker 11: bringing up the Muslim brotherhoodnspiracy theories again in Sharia law, 535 00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:05,040 Speaker 11: conspiracy theories and sort of the ridiculousness and pushing this hate, 536 00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:06,080 Speaker 11: this islamophobia. 537 00:27:06,640 --> 00:27:07,439 Speaker 6: I find it amazing. 538 00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:09,200 Speaker 11: You're not going to get a whole lot of statements 539 00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:11,240 Speaker 11: about what you're saying in the news that I just 540 00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:12,919 Speaker 11: heard the update in the news. By the way, for 541 00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:15,480 Speaker 11: both of you, my heart rate went up specifically with paramount, 542 00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:16,919 Speaker 11: and I can tell you why. Sometimes if you have 543 00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:19,720 Speaker 11: ask me about that, you know, like, oh my goodness, 544 00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:22,320 Speaker 11: there's so much there. I think what you're looking at 545 00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:25,399 Speaker 11: with Saudi, I think people in the country, you know, 546 00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:28,480 Speaker 11: the grown ups realize that you have to have certain 547 00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:32,560 Speaker 11: relationships globally. But I think those those global relationships have 548 00:27:32,600 --> 00:27:34,960 Speaker 11: to be mature. And I think when you're talking about 549 00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:38,440 Speaker 11: Blackwell chips, you're talking about AI, you're talking about technology transfer. 550 00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:42,719 Speaker 11: My question is what other technology transfer to Saudi Arabia have. 551 00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:45,919 Speaker 11: For instance, how did they just receive surface there missile 552 00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:49,200 Speaker 11: systems from Russia. And when you're talking about real DoD 553 00:27:49,320 --> 00:27:51,600 Speaker 11: decision makers, real adults in the room, which I think 554 00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:54,399 Speaker 11: there's a lack of in this administration. I think what 555 00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:56,879 Speaker 11: you have to consider is, regardless of the relationships you 556 00:27:56,880 --> 00:28:00,239 Speaker 11: have to have for certain strategic goals or objectives, look 557 00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:02,280 Speaker 11: at the government itself, but you also have to look 558 00:28:02,320 --> 00:28:06,119 Speaker 11: at what happens with something called FM foreign material exploitation. 559 00:28:06,880 --> 00:28:09,520 Speaker 11: And the fact is, if we're providing chips or F 560 00:28:09,560 --> 00:28:14,120 Speaker 11: thirty five's, we're providing technology, advanced technologies, and the Russians 561 00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:17,440 Speaker 11: are there also with their technologies, they can exploit what 562 00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:19,840 Speaker 11: we have without us having insight into that. 563 00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:21,520 Speaker 6: And I just wonder if. 564 00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:23,840 Speaker 11: Anybody is looking at any of this in any way 565 00:28:23,880 --> 00:28:27,560 Speaker 11: that doesn't actually have decisions just based on what Donald 566 00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:30,560 Speaker 11: Trump wants, whether it's for his own business interest or whatnot. 567 00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:33,320 Speaker 11: So I think that's the thing that gets people who've 568 00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:35,840 Speaker 11: been in the actual defense business, who've been in Congress, 569 00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:39,280 Speaker 11: who've had to make serious decisions that even with the 570 00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:43,160 Speaker 11: press conference again, the news, the updates, it's unbelievable, even 571 00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:47,640 Speaker 11: with the press conference, our administration seems so decidedly unserious 572 00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:50,720 Speaker 11: about what could happen to our American warfighters and to 573 00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:53,720 Speaker 11: our citizens if they're not making decisions based on real 574 00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:57,120 Speaker 11: intelligence analysis and really real foreign policy expertise. 575 00:28:58,680 --> 00:29:01,520 Speaker 4: Well, Congressman, there was, as we know, a pretty long 576 00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:04,080 Speaker 4: wish list from the Saudis for today, and they did 577 00:29:04,120 --> 00:29:06,880 Speaker 4: get at least we know, the F thirty five package 578 00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:09,800 Speaker 4: they wanted. They're also in talks around the chips, as 579 00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:12,959 Speaker 4: we mentioned, civil nuclear energy, that sort of thing. It 580 00:29:12,960 --> 00:29:15,080 Speaker 4: does seem a lot was asked for and a lot 581 00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:18,000 Speaker 4: was granted, whereas on the US side, it's a little unclear. 582 00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:21,560 Speaker 4: Beyond that six hundred billion dollars that's supposed to become 583 00:29:21,640 --> 00:29:24,680 Speaker 4: one trillion dollars, what is the US side getting? Can 584 00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:27,120 Speaker 4: you kind of unpack you know, from either side, did 585 00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:30,600 Speaker 4: somebody win this negotiation? And if so, what is the 586 00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:32,719 Speaker 4: loss on the other side of the Ledger. 587 00:29:33,840 --> 00:29:35,719 Speaker 6: I don't think the American people won this at all. 588 00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:37,480 Speaker 11: I think Saudi won, But I think if you see 589 00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:39,880 Speaker 11: the people that won, you wonder what the cascading business 590 00:29:39,880 --> 00:29:42,040 Speaker 11: effects are for the Trump family and those around them. 591 00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:43,720 Speaker 11: I think that's the first thing you would look at 592 00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:45,240 Speaker 11: as an analyst. 593 00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:50,040 Speaker 6: What is the win? Is it lower oil prices? You know? 594 00:29:50,240 --> 00:29:50,960 Speaker 6: What does that? Do? 595 00:29:51,000 --> 00:29:53,480 Speaker 11: You know, sort of economically for the larger oil and 596 00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:56,760 Speaker 11: processing companies in our country. I think I think that's 597 00:29:56,760 --> 00:29:59,160 Speaker 11: what you look at. Michelle, your question on the F 598 00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:00,880 Speaker 11: thirty five is one it bothers me. You know, as 599 00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:04,120 Speaker 11: a U Nited States Air Force intelligence officer, I my 600 00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:07,400 Speaker 11: expertise were a fighter jets. I was trained on intelligence 601 00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:09,560 Speaker 11: on F fifteens and F sixteens and then the supersonic 602 00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:11,960 Speaker 11: bomber of the B one. And that's after nine to eleven. 603 00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:14,080 Speaker 11: I've deployed ten days after nine to eleven. So this 604 00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:16,640 Speaker 11: is a subject that does get to me. Is that, 605 00:30:16,760 --> 00:30:19,320 Speaker 11: for instance, if the Russians had signed a deal in 606 00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:21,880 Speaker 11: twenty one or twenty two to deliver pansers, which the 607 00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:23,680 Speaker 11: NATO designator is the SA twenty two. 608 00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:24,480 Speaker 6: It's a serviced air. 609 00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:28,640 Speaker 11: Missile system does multilayer defense with missiles and guns. People 610 00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:30,280 Speaker 11: can look it up You can google it right now, 611 00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:33,959 Speaker 11: just google the SA twenty two Greyhound. But those are 612 00:30:34,040 --> 00:30:36,520 Speaker 11: unclassified things that you're seeing, even the weaknesses. 613 00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:39,240 Speaker 6: And my big fear, misshow is. 614 00:30:39,240 --> 00:30:41,479 Speaker 11: That if we're if we're providing F thirty fives, are 615 00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:44,760 Speaker 11: they utilizing F thirty fives in practice runs against the 616 00:30:44,760 --> 00:30:47,200 Speaker 11: panser or the SA twenty two. And what are the 617 00:30:47,280 --> 00:30:50,480 Speaker 11: Russians learning about our weapons systems? Also, we don't know 618 00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:53,040 Speaker 11: what the technology transfer looks like in the Middle East specifically, 619 00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:55,719 Speaker 11: right we don't know if those Blackwell chips are going 620 00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:57,560 Speaker 11: to find their way into other hands, which was something 621 00:30:57,600 --> 00:31:00,320 Speaker 11: we worried about with China and other Middle Eastern cones. 622 00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:02,840 Speaker 11: And again, I just feel like we're just we're not 623 00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:05,240 Speaker 11: looking at this in a way that benefits the American people. 624 00:31:05,240 --> 00:31:07,880 Speaker 11: It's a specific portion of those at the top of 625 00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:11,080 Speaker 11: the government that look like they're trade dealing outside of 626 00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:13,720 Speaker 11: what's good for America. And again, I wonder what the 627 00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:16,040 Speaker 11: Republican side of Congress is going to do after they're 628 00:31:16,080 --> 00:31:22,440 Speaker 11: screaming about Sharia law or about the sort of Muslims, 629 00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:25,520 Speaker 11: you know, creeping into our country's infrastructure. You know, this 630 00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:28,240 Speaker 11: scary thing, right, Joe and Michelle, So, I think again, 631 00:31:28,800 --> 00:31:31,280 Speaker 11: we have to be very very careful when you don't 632 00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:34,880 Speaker 11: have real decisions from professionals and you're doing this for 633 00:31:34,920 --> 00:31:37,400 Speaker 11: a personal gain or for other gains. We can't see 634 00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:39,840 Speaker 11: what does that do to our war fighters in the future, 635 00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:41,720 Speaker 11: and what does it do to our geopolitical standing in 636 00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:42,160 Speaker 11: the future. 637 00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:47,760 Speaker 2: Also, that is a scary scenario that you outline, Denver, 638 00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:51,080 Speaker 2: and we need to pull you into some deep waters 639 00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:54,920 Speaker 2: with regard to what's happening in the House today. I'd 640 00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:57,200 Speaker 2: love to know what you're hearing from your former colleagues, 641 00:31:57,240 --> 00:32:00,040 Speaker 2: if you believe as well that this discharge petition to 642 00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:03,800 Speaker 2: release the Epstein files will receive a unanimous vote, and 643 00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:06,280 Speaker 2: if you're also a part of the chattering class now 644 00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:10,200 Speaker 2: in Washington who says it won't matter because the DOJ 645 00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:13,360 Speaker 2: has an ongoing investigation into the likes of Bill Clinton 646 00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:16,720 Speaker 2: and other Democrats that will make it impossible for them 647 00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:18,240 Speaker 2: to release any Epstein files. 648 00:32:18,320 --> 00:32:19,200 Speaker 3: How are you looking at this? 649 00:32:20,640 --> 00:32:23,200 Speaker 11: You know, the best way for a squid to escape 650 00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:26,560 Speaker 11: is to squirt a lot of ink, right Joa, Michelle, 651 00:32:26,760 --> 00:32:29,640 Speaker 11: And I think like that, you know, so, I think 652 00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:31,960 Speaker 11: what you're saying is a massive amount of ink sporting 653 00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:37,080 Speaker 11: going on in Congress right now. And for me, you know, 654 00:32:37,080 --> 00:32:39,320 Speaker 11: when you're talking about redactions, when you're talking about what 655 00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:41,360 Speaker 11: kind of executive privilege he's going to invoke, when you're 656 00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:43,760 Speaker 11: talking about the legal challenges, when you're talking about what 657 00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:46,760 Speaker 11: this vote signifies, it's pretty interesting that they've had about 658 00:32:46,800 --> 00:32:48,560 Speaker 11: ten months to get their act together after they said 659 00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:51,040 Speaker 11: they were going to release the Epstein files on day one. 660 00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:53,360 Speaker 11: You guys remember the Phase one binders, right and the 661 00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:57,720 Speaker 11: giddy influencers coming out with obviously empty binders at this point, 662 00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:00,880 Speaker 11: you know, I mean, it's mine bugging that the saying 663 00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:03,480 Speaker 11: or the rational would think that's anything but performative theater 664 00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:06,680 Speaker 11: that you're saying. And I do believe right now that 665 00:33:06,760 --> 00:33:08,400 Speaker 11: I don't think we're ever going to see all the 666 00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:11,040 Speaker 11: Epstein files as long as Trump is in place. 667 00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:13,240 Speaker 6: I think anything that you see. 668 00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:15,760 Speaker 11: You know, the far right's going to say, no big deal, 669 00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:17,720 Speaker 11: and the center and the far left going to say, 670 00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:20,000 Speaker 11: my lord, what are we just seeing here? I think 671 00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:21,760 Speaker 11: we just have a bunch of ink squirting going on 672 00:33:21,880 --> 00:33:22,200 Speaker 11: right now. 673 00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:26,400 Speaker 4: Well, Connorsman, you wouldn't know it from today's events and 674 00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:28,640 Speaker 4: how they've been pitched by the White House and focus 675 00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:31,640 Speaker 4: on the Saudi deal here. But you know, the White 676 00:33:31,640 --> 00:33:34,280 Speaker 4: House has been trying to get back to affordability as 677 00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:37,800 Speaker 4: a message, so it made it affordability. We've got MBS 678 00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:41,600 Speaker 4: this week, We've got Venezuela cooking hot, which we've forgotten 679 00:33:41,640 --> 00:33:45,239 Speaker 4: about almost this morning, all of these issues. You've been 680 00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:47,920 Speaker 4: to Ukraine many times. I wonder if you fear that 681 00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:50,160 Speaker 4: that issue will kind of fall by the wayside, that 682 00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:52,120 Speaker 4: we're not having our eye on the ball in terms 683 00:33:52,120 --> 00:33:55,440 Speaker 4: of what do we do next here? Certainly on President 684 00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:59,000 Speaker 4: Trump's mind as the last war that he wants to solve, 685 00:33:59,040 --> 00:34:02,040 Speaker 4: as he often as he's losing patients. But where do 686 00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:03,840 Speaker 4: things go from here on the Ukraine front? 687 00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:08,160 Speaker 6: Oh goodness, it's a great question. 688 00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:11,600 Speaker 11: My gosh, but that is a great question, you know, 689 00:34:12,160 --> 00:34:15,600 Speaker 11: As you know, I was just in Ukraine recently, incredible memory, 690 00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:18,200 Speaker 11: and I'm about to go back right in the next 691 00:34:18,200 --> 00:34:20,840 Speaker 11: few months, and I was just talking about Ukraine today. 692 00:34:21,239 --> 00:34:23,360 Speaker 11: I think Ukraine does sort of fall by the wayside. 693 00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:26,479 Speaker 11: I think I find it interesting that the Trump team 694 00:34:27,360 --> 00:34:30,120 Speaker 11: stole affordability of the word from the Spamberger campaign, who 695 00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:32,560 Speaker 11: actually has a real plan here in Virginia and all 696 00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:35,440 Speaker 11: of a sudden they're grabbing onto her messaging that was successful. 697 00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:37,960 Speaker 11: That's what I'm seeing right now when you're looking at 698 00:34:38,000 --> 00:34:40,360 Speaker 11: the national landscape. But as far as Ukraine's concern, MI 699 00:34:40,440 --> 00:34:41,920 Speaker 11: show I'm very, very worried. 700 00:34:42,600 --> 00:34:42,759 Speaker 6: You know. 701 00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:44,759 Speaker 11: I know it took them a long time to take Pokrovsk, 702 00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:46,920 Speaker 11: you know, the Russians going in there, and obviously I 703 00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:49,200 Speaker 11: get updates, I know a lot of people there. But 704 00:34:49,239 --> 00:34:50,799 Speaker 11: I do think there's going to come a time, even 705 00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:53,279 Speaker 11: with the advances in drone warfare, where Ukraine's going to have, 706 00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:56,759 Speaker 11: you know, maybe some attrition problems, and I think can 707 00:34:56,800 --> 00:34:59,319 Speaker 11: they last through this administration? I hope they can, but 708 00:34:59,360 --> 00:35:02,000 Speaker 11: I think it's some point the United States has to 709 00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:04,680 Speaker 11: make that decision to arm them in a very, very 710 00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:07,080 Speaker 11: huge way. And again it goes back to the fact, 711 00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:10,280 Speaker 11: I don't know if we're providing again f thirty fives 712 00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:14,480 Speaker 11: Michelle and Joe to Saudi and we're not worried about 713 00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:17,120 Speaker 11: Russian equipment there. Are we not worried about Russian intervention 714 00:35:17,440 --> 00:35:20,319 Speaker 11: or Russian incursions at all into neighboring countries. I mean, 715 00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:22,759 Speaker 11: at what point, after ten months do we say, well, 716 00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:27,000 Speaker 11: maybe the Trump administration just isn't that interest in what's 717 00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:30,000 Speaker 11: going on in Ukraine based on whatever conspiracy theories or 718 00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:32,080 Speaker 11: whatever foreign policy doctrine they've come up with. 719 00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:35,040 Speaker 3: Would tomahawks make the difference? 720 00:35:35,360 --> 00:35:37,520 Speaker 2: Denver, We talked about that up and down until the 721 00:35:37,520 --> 00:35:40,120 Speaker 2: President decided it wasn't time to send those cruise missiles 722 00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:42,480 Speaker 2: to Ukraine. And what if we did give them F 723 00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:45,680 Speaker 2: thirty fives would be able to train Ukrainian pilots to 724 00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:46,360 Speaker 2: make a difference? 725 00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:48,120 Speaker 6: Be rough? 726 00:35:48,239 --> 00:35:50,840 Speaker 11: I mean training F thirty five pilots quickly would be 727 00:35:50,880 --> 00:35:51,239 Speaker 11: very rough. 728 00:35:51,239 --> 00:35:52,879 Speaker 6: I mean there's some of the best pilots in the world. 729 00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:55,239 Speaker 11: But I will tell you this, I mean, if there 730 00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:57,960 Speaker 11: is a way right where we could use Allied F 731 00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:02,200 Speaker 11: thirty fives, that would be fantastic. Listen, Tomahawks would give 732 00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:04,480 Speaker 11: the Russians a pucker a maximum pucker factor. 733 00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:06,280 Speaker 6: I mean, that is just the truth. 734 00:36:07,560 --> 00:36:11,640 Speaker 11: We are so much we are so much well more armed, 735 00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:14,279 Speaker 11: just more technological than the Russians on every way they've 736 00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:17,600 Speaker 11: they've shown themselves not to be effective in a large 737 00:36:17,640 --> 00:36:19,880 Speaker 11: land mass war against Ukraine. Now, you got to give 738 00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:23,640 Speaker 11: Ukraine credit. They're one of the most savvy opponents. I 739 00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:25,600 Speaker 11: think the Russians could imagine based on the fact that 740 00:36:25,600 --> 00:36:28,360 Speaker 11: they can change their tactics, techniques, and procedures on a dime. 741 00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:31,880 Speaker 11: They have brilliant engineers over there, especially in drone warfare. 742 00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:35,440 Speaker 11: But yeah, I think we're to point right now that 743 00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:37,480 Speaker 11: those type of arms like tomahawks. I think it would 744 00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:40,040 Speaker 11: give the Russians pause because they really didn't They wouldn't 745 00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:42,799 Speaker 11: have much they could do against them. When you're talking 746 00:36:42,800 --> 00:36:45,040 Speaker 11: about anything like that, we talk about cruise missiles and 747 00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:47,719 Speaker 11: you can talk about tomahawks. The Russians would not be 748 00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:49,799 Speaker 11: happy about that. And again I think we should have 749 00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:51,399 Speaker 11: probably done that sooner rather than later. 750 00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:55,479 Speaker 2: Really interesting, Denver, It's great to have you back. You mentioned, 751 00:36:55,520 --> 00:36:58,240 Speaker 2: by the way, Abigail Spanberg. I know that you're working 752 00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:00,400 Speaker 2: on the transition team. I believe that's public now for 753 00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:04,480 Speaker 2: the soon to be installed Virginia governor. 754 00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:06,080 Speaker 3: Come back and talk to us about what you're doing. 755 00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:06,840 Speaker 3: I'd love to hear. 756 00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:09,759 Speaker 2: How that works for a former Republican congressman to be 757 00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:12,920 Speaker 2: helping to stage the next Democratic governor of Virginia. We 758 00:37:12,960 --> 00:37:15,440 Speaker 2: miss you. Come see us in Washington soon. Denver Wriggleman, 759 00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:17,200 Speaker 2: a former Republican Congressman. 760 00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:21,680 Speaker 3: Thanks for listening to the Balance of Power podcast. 761 00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:25,400 Speaker 2: Make sure to subscribe if you haven't already, at Apple, Spotify, 762 00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:28,080 Speaker 2: or wherever you get your podcasts, and you can find 763 00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:31,400 Speaker 2: us live every weekday from Washington, DC at noontime Eastern 764 00:37:31,680 --> 00:37:33,200 Speaker 2: at Bloomberg dot com.