Speaker 1: You've probably heard that the elk are killed by the
Speaker 1: same ten hunters year and in year out. Today's guests
Speaker 1: is one of those elk hunters that converts the majority
Speaker 1: of his issue tags in the notch tags. What's even better,
Speaker 1: he's as humble as they get. Nate Simmons is one
Speaker 1: of those guys I look up to and have a
Speaker 1: ton of respect for. He resides in Cody, Wyoming, is
Speaker 1: one of the most extreme back country bow hunters out there,
Speaker 1: and he prides himself on being a self sufficient d
Speaker 1: I Y hunter. He is the producer and co host
Speaker 1: of The Western Hunter TV show and has written numerous
Speaker 1: hunting articles. His success as an elk hunter is second
Speaker 1: to none, and today I wanted to sit down and
Speaker 1: pick Nate's brain on some of his tactics that leads
Speaker 1: to this consistent success. Welcome to the show, Nate. Well, then,
Speaker 1: thank you to be here. Decided to talk to elkund
Speaker 1: about how's everything going over there at the Western Hunter. Good.
Speaker 1: It's been extremely busy lately. This is always like about
Speaker 1: our busiest time of the year. We just uh, we
Speaker 1: just got our first episode of the new season off
Speaker 1: on Monday, UM and that first one is always way
Speaker 1: tougher than any of the ones that follow up. So
Speaker 1: the rest of them, Yeah, for sure. Do you have
Speaker 1: any big hunts signed up for this fall? Um, you know,
Speaker 1: nothing out of the out of the ordinary. It doesn't
Speaker 1: look like it. I mean, I'm still waiting on a
Speaker 1: couple of states draw results, but I don't really anticipate
Speaker 1: a whole lot of luck there. But um, I am
Speaker 1: still pretty excited. I've got I've got my normal elk
Speaker 1: cunning lineup, you know, kind of my what's been my standard,
Speaker 1: which is Wyoming, Idaho in Montana, and all those this
Speaker 1: year are you know, their general season over the counter hunts,
Speaker 1: which I'm just probably more excited than I ever have
Speaker 1: been because it does feel to me like, uh, this
Speaker 1: may not be the last year that I get all
Speaker 1: three of those, um in one season, but it very
Speaker 1: likely could be. Like I feel really really lucky that
Speaker 1: I've got all three of those in my pocket. For sure. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's definitely getting harder, especially Melteer tags are are still
Speaker 1: somewhat available, but man, the elk tags are getting tough
Speaker 1: to come by. I got I got great information yesterday.
Speaker 1: I was able to draw a two percent tag here
Speaker 1: in Washington. So it's an extra ook tag for me. Yeah, yea,
Speaker 1: so it was a little pleasant surprise. We have some
Speaker 1: decent hunting here as long as you can get one
Speaker 1: of the very few tags they have so added added
Speaker 1: to my fall Rocky or Roosevelt Rocky down in the
Speaker 1: Blues down in southeast Washington's got really really lucky. Man.
Speaker 1: Have you have you ever hunted there before? I did.
Speaker 1: My wife had the tag in uh fifteen and um
Speaker 1: saw some some great bowls. Um, so I'm excited to
Speaker 1: get back and and you know run run loose through
Speaker 1: the area. You know, definitely rugged, rugged terrain, and you know,
Speaker 1: sometimes tough hunting there at the end of October. But
Speaker 1: the nice thing is, you know, going in that there's
Speaker 1: a big bowl somewhere in that unit. It's just up
Speaker 1: to me to go find it. So alleviates the first
Speaker 1: part of you know, going to find a big or
Speaker 1: be even being in a unit with one. You know,
Speaker 1: they're they're just finding them and trying to find one
Speaker 1: that the the wolves haven't turned into toothpicks. Yeah exactly. Yeah, yea.
Speaker 1: So well we're gonna start this podcast off like all
Speaker 1: of them. Um, We're gonna take some questions that you
Speaker 1: know kind of pertain to your experience and your expertise.
Speaker 1: And if you have any questions out there in the audience,
Speaker 1: UM that you want to ask our guests, please email
Speaker 1: us at ct D at Phelps Game Calls dot com.
Speaker 1: We'll take your questions, pass them on to the experts
Speaker 1: and and see what their answers are. So, the first
Speaker 1: question that the listeners had for you, Nate was with
Speaker 1: some great elk hunting existing in grizzly dense areas and
Speaker 1: and knowing a little bit of your past, what are
Speaker 1: the dues and do nots while hunting in grizzly country
Speaker 1: and how have you kind of adapted and coped with um,
Speaker 1: you know, not necessarily being the apex predator, but still
Speaker 1: wanting to get into some of that country and uh
Speaker 1: hunt it. And then if you can elaborate a little
Speaker 1: bit on gun versus bear spray, and then you know
Speaker 1: some of your camping in grizzly country, um, you know,
Speaker 1: tactics or or advice. Okay, yeah, I would say, I guess.
Speaker 1: I mean really it's like I've been hunting in grizzly country,
Speaker 1: Like my first hunt in Grizzly Country is probably like
Speaker 1: ten years ago, and there's been maybe a year or
Speaker 1: two that I haven't hunted in Grizzly Country over that time,
Speaker 1: but you know, definitely the majority of those and even
Speaker 1: like last year, I did two hunts in Grizzly Country,
Speaker 1: one in Wyoming and Montana. But so I have experience,
Speaker 1: but it's definitely still like an evolving, uh you know,
Speaker 1: like a system that I'm coming up with. I'm still
Speaker 1: making tweaks and and uh, you know, stuff to my
Speaker 1: you know, just to my system. But I would say
Speaker 1: probably like the number one thing that I think is
Speaker 1: really important where it's not I mean, it's always important,
Speaker 1: it's not as important outside of Grizzly Country, and that
Speaker 1: is to try to always hunt with another person if possible, um,
Speaker 1: you know, which you know, like I rarely ever are
Speaker 1: going at elk hunt alone anymore, like especially in Grizzly Country.
Speaker 1: I mean I've self filmed a couple of elk hunts
Speaker 1: um over the years, but never in Grizzly Country. And
Speaker 1: that's something I highly doubt that I would ever even attempt. Um.
Speaker 1: There's just so you know, it's just much more likely
Speaker 1: in my opinion that you're gonna have trouble if you're
Speaker 1: completely alone. Um. You know, and pretty much any time
Speaker 1: I feel like it's a detriment to be alone, but
Speaker 1: particularly when you get one down, um you know, Like
Speaker 1: I mean last year, for example, I the bull I
Speaker 1: killed was down in a like a just a little
Speaker 1: crick bottom where it was kind of a deep little
Speaker 1: cut there. And when I was down working on the elk,
Speaker 1: like I couldn't see anything, and we knew there was
Speaker 1: at least two bears in the area. Um, So it
Speaker 1: was really nice to have Randy it was with me
Speaker 1: stay up like out of the wash a little bit
Speaker 1: to where he could kind of uh you know, keep
Speaker 1: his his eyes and ears going where I was right
Speaker 1: next to the creek couldn't hear. Um. So I feel like,
Speaker 1: you know, that would be the number one thing just
Speaker 1: from a safety standpoint, is to always you know, at
Speaker 1: least be in pairs. Um. And then also to have
Speaker 1: GPS communication device. UM. I feel like that's really kind
Speaker 1: of you know, a good idea no matter where you are.
Speaker 1: But I think in in grizzly country, even if you
Speaker 1: think you're gonna have sell service, I think it's just
Speaker 1: really foolish to go out there without a backup way
Speaker 1: of communicating. Um, which kind of like would tie in
Speaker 1: with another piece of advice I would have is that, um,
Speaker 1: you know, if you don't have your own pack animals,
Speaker 1: I think having an outfit or lined up to retrieve
Speaker 1: your elk with you know, horses or mules is a
Speaker 1: really good idea if you're in grizzly country, even if
Speaker 1: you're not planning on being that far back. I mean,
Speaker 1: if you just if you end up being back a
Speaker 1: little ways, um, you know, just having somebody lined up
Speaker 1: to help you. I mean that's some of like my
Speaker 1: most pleasant experiences hunting in grizzly Country is on hunts
Speaker 1: where I've been able to contact an outfit or and
Speaker 1: either do a drop camp just having packed me in
Speaker 1: and dropped me off, which there's a there's a huge
Speaker 1: benefit in that too. I Mean, normally I just backpack
Speaker 1: when I'm elk cuttings. I just feel like I'm the
Speaker 1: most mobile that way. Um, you know, it's just less
Speaker 1: things to worry about. But uh, doing the drop camp,
Speaker 1: having an outfit are dropped me allows me to take
Speaker 1: a nicer camp, which it is a little safer in
Speaker 1: grizzly country. I mean generally I would take an electric fence, um,
Speaker 1: you know, and uh, you know, a bigger tent that
Speaker 1: you know, we could both be inside of. Just I
Speaker 1: feel like there's just a lot of things that you know, um,
Speaker 1: safety measures that we can take, uh you know, more
Speaker 1: rope all that sort of stuff. So I do like
Speaker 1: that as well. But the but the biggest thing is
Speaker 1: when you get an elk down. I mean, the second
Speaker 1: I recover my elk, I'm on the phone, you know,
Speaker 1: give him a call and said, hete come get me,
Speaker 1: you know, and it's just so nice. I mean, there's
Speaker 1: enough things for me to be stressed out about hutting
Speaker 1: in grizzly country, like not having to go worry about
Speaker 1: getting my animals or take care of them, just know one.
Speaker 1: And it's also just peace of mind when you're processing
Speaker 1: that elk knowing that there's help on the way. Yeah,
Speaker 1: those are great tips. Nate, and I have to ask
Speaker 1: gunn or spray. I wouldn't go out without both, um.
Speaker 1: But like I said, since there's always somebody with me
Speaker 1: usually what what the system that I have is that
Speaker 1: I have bear spray on me and I'm usually in front,
Speaker 1: you know, when I'm hunting, and and then uh, you know,
Speaker 1: Randy's generally he's with me an awful lot in grizzly country,
Speaker 1: and then he usually packs a ten millimeter glock with
Speaker 1: some you know, pretty serious bare loads and uh, you know,
Speaker 1: like personally, like if if the conditions are right, like
Speaker 1: I would much rather use spray for a lot of reasons.
Speaker 1: I just feel like there's more forgiveness there. Um, you know,
Speaker 1: you don't, I mean, like with a pistol, like who
Speaker 1: knows if you're gonna be able to be accurate enough?
Speaker 1: And the last thing, you know, I mean like certainly
Speaker 1: i'd pulled the trigger, you know, if I if I
Speaker 1: really felt like my life was in danger. But just
Speaker 1: hearing the stories of people that have had to kill them, um,
Speaker 1: of what they've had to deal with, it's like I
Speaker 1: want no part of that, um you know. So that's
Speaker 1: the system we go with that. That the downside to me,
Speaker 1: like Randy and I go backpacking and we're both in
Speaker 1: one man tents, Like I only have a spray in
Speaker 1: my tent, you know, and that's not gonna do me
Speaker 1: a whole lot of good inside of my tent if
Speaker 1: a bear came in at night. But um, but when
Speaker 1: I'm out in the field, I do feel like just
Speaker 1: having a combination of the two is a is a
Speaker 1: pretty good system. Got you. Um, do you recommend as
Speaker 1: long as that you know, the forest isn't too dry
Speaker 1: and you're gonna burn the whole place down? Do you
Speaker 1: recommend building the fire? You know, if it's a nighttime
Speaker 1: breakdown of that bowl or you know, do you do
Speaker 1: you build fires or do you tend to just put
Speaker 1: somebody on watch? Um? Yeah, like I said, it's like
Speaker 1: you said, it's it's really conditioned. Um, you know, just
Speaker 1: dictates that. Like I recovered a bowl with Randy Um
Speaker 1: several years ago and there was snow on the ground,
Speaker 1: um and so, and I called the packer as soon
Speaker 1: as I recovered the elk, but I knew he was
Speaker 1: not going to get there that day. He was going
Speaker 1: to get there you know late the next morning. We're
Speaker 1: just too far for him to come, you know, that
Speaker 1: same day. So we knew, you know, there was no rush.
Speaker 1: We just took her time and uh process the elk.
Speaker 1: But yeah, we definitely we started a bonfire on that
Speaker 1: deal because there was no h you know, there was
Speaker 1: no fire restrictions, and uh, we were not worried about, uh,
Speaker 1: you know, the fire getting away from us. But yeah,
Speaker 1: that definitely was a little piece of mind there. And
Speaker 1: we have done it other times where we've had bears.
Speaker 1: We had a bear come in um to us when
Speaker 1: we were eating dinner one night, got super close to us. Um.
Speaker 1: It was just one of those deals where my head's
Speaker 1: always on a swivel when I'm in a grizzly country,
Speaker 1: like constantly, whether it's day or night. But just we're
Speaker 1: both just sitting there. We had the pistol in between us.
Speaker 1: We're sitting on the ground eating our mountain house and
Speaker 1: just every so often it was pitch dark. I just
Speaker 1: kind of shined my light out through the meadow and
Speaker 1: just kind of subconsciously without even thinking about it. And
Speaker 1: I did it once and looked over and there was
Speaker 1: two eyes like I mean fifteen yards um, and he
Speaker 1: was down wind, coming straight at us. And fortunately he
Speaker 1: just took off running when we started hollering and stuff,
Speaker 1: but we were we were really spooked that he was
Speaker 1: going to be coming back that night. So you know,
Speaker 1: we hung our food, went back over to where we
Speaker 1: had our camp set up, you know, about a hundred
Speaker 1: fifty yards away, and uh, yeah, we started a little
Speaker 1: fire that night. Just uh, I don't know if it
Speaker 1: was really going to keep away or not, but it
Speaker 1: made us feel little bit better. Another another thing I
Speaker 1: guess I kind of like to do in uh, in
Speaker 1: in grizzly country, like I'm gonna be hunting olk and
Speaker 1: grizzly country is I usually try to stay away from
Speaker 1: areas that are really thick. Um. I like to try
Speaker 1: to pick out areas that are more open with lots
Speaker 1: of topography so that I can use my eyes as
Speaker 1: much as possible to locate the elk, versus in areas
Speaker 1: that are really dense where you constantly have to be
Speaker 1: covering ground to locate them with your ears. Um. And
Speaker 1: that's really like that strategy is one that one I
Speaker 1: kind of like to begin with. But it's also just
Speaker 1: a safety thing, you know, Like I just I don't
Speaker 1: want to go hunt in like in grizzly country and
Speaker 1: know that my game plan is is I got to
Speaker 1: cover lots of ground, you know, constantly and be trying
Speaker 1: to you know, locate elk with googles um. Just because
Speaker 1: I feel like the more traveling you're doing in thick cover. Um,
Speaker 1: you know that's just to me, that just presents more
Speaker 1: um likelihood that you're gonna end up bumping one because
Speaker 1: usually you know a lot of times where archery hunters
Speaker 1: get into trouble is they just bump into one and
Speaker 1: surprise it. Um. And I've I've had that happen to
Speaker 1: me where I've bumped bears like very close. But fortunately,
Speaker 1: um none of them have charged, They've they've ran the
Speaker 1: other direction. But I just feel like that, you know,
Speaker 1: getting up on a glass and spot where I can
Speaker 1: see and also where I can hear really well. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, it just allows me to know like I
Speaker 1: can be hunting very effectively without constantly being happened to
Speaker 1: be on the move. And I guess the other part
Speaker 1: of that too is uh is when I'm in grizzly country,
Speaker 1: I also tend to push my luck a little bit
Speaker 1: with how close I camp to the U in proximity
Speaker 1: to the where I think the oak are. Um, I
Speaker 1: try to camp a little closer in grizzly country. UM.
Speaker 1: So it just limits the amount of movement I don't
Speaker 1: want to have to get up and hike for an
Speaker 1: hour in the dark to go get to wear the
Speaker 1: elk car like I'd like to be wake up and
Speaker 1: feel like they're pretty close, just just to limit my movement,
Speaker 1: you know, which is really just it's a safety precaution. Really. Yeah,
Speaker 1: those are those are all great points. And I wanted
Speaker 1: to add on to your point of hunting with a partner.
Speaker 1: I was at a Western hunting summit um just this
Speaker 1: past weekend and one of the speakers was talking about
Speaker 1: grizzy hunting and I don't remember the stat and I
Speaker 1: don't I'm not going to claim to know it, but
Speaker 1: I know it was exponentially better, like the survival rate
Speaker 1: of one guy versus a group of two guys versus
Speaker 1: a group of three guys. By the time you got
Speaker 1: the three guys, I think the survival rate was like
Speaker 1: down in the you know, more than you know surviving
Speaker 1: if it was one, you know, one hunter. So it's
Speaker 1: a little bit of information. I don't know the exact stats,
Speaker 1: but it was exponentially increased that there wasn't gonna be
Speaker 1: a fatality or any major issues. Um with three or
Speaker 1: more people. Yeah, no, yeah, for sure. Um, there was
Speaker 1: like like self filming is definitely not like something that I,
Speaker 1: you know, I seek out, like I've just ended up
Speaker 1: in some situations that I've needed to over the years. Um.
Speaker 1: But like just to to your point about being with people,
Speaker 1: there was I don't know, it's probably about three years ago.
Speaker 1: I was hunting at a general Elk Tag, Wyoming and
Speaker 1: was hunting with a guy that had taken some vacation
Speaker 1: off his work to film with me, and we found
Speaker 1: a huge bowl, biggest bowl that I've ever found on
Speaker 1: a general tag. It was like a three seventy type bowl,
Speaker 1: just a monster, and he was in a pretty killable spot.
Speaker 1: I called him in once, just barely out of range. Um,
Speaker 1: And I just felt like if I kept hunting him,
Speaker 1: I could, I could, I could probably have a good
Speaker 1: chance at him. And we ran out of time. My
Speaker 1: buddy had to go back to work, and I still
Speaker 1: had plenty of time. UM, And I knew, I mean,
Speaker 1: I absolutely could have went back up there and tried
Speaker 1: to sell film, but I just thought there was no way.
Speaker 1: Like if I didn't and if it had been like
Speaker 1: years and years ago, I might have been fool and
Speaker 1: full itsh enough to attempt it. I've just had enough
Speaker 1: experiences now in grizzly country. I just thought, huge bowl
Speaker 1: in a great spot. There's no way I'm going up
Speaker 1: there by myself. So I just packed my bags and
Speaker 1: went over to Idaho and self filmed over there because
Speaker 1: I liked my odds of survival felt like they were
Speaker 1: just a lot higher. And uh, I'm glad that I
Speaker 1: made that decision. Yeah, yeah, Um, all right, we'll jump
Speaker 1: into question number two. Uh, somebody had for you. How
Speaker 1: long will you typically stay in an area if it
Speaker 1: seems marginal or you're not finding the elk that you
Speaker 1: like before you decide to move on and find an
Speaker 1: area that has more elk and or the elk you're
Speaker 1: looking for. Um, you know, I would say that really
Speaker 1: depends on a couple of factors, um, you know. One
Speaker 1: would be do I have a good draw tag versus
Speaker 1: a general season tag, you know, like if I if
Speaker 1: I have a good draw tag, which you know I
Speaker 1: don't have very often, but what I do, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: be more picky, like if I end up in a
Speaker 1: marginal area, like you know, I'm gonna be swinging for
Speaker 1: the fence. I'm gonna be looking for, um, you know,
Speaker 1: the pot of gold in the rainbow so I'm gonna
Speaker 1: I'm gonna like, I'm gonna move very quickly if I
Speaker 1: if I'm not in a really really good situation that
Speaker 1: I feel great about and I have a draw tag,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be moving. But most of the time I
Speaker 1: have a general season tag or over the counter type
Speaker 1: tag in my pocket. And uh, you know, so that
Speaker 1: that would be the second part of it, And that
Speaker 1: would have to do with really, um, if I had
Speaker 1: a marginal area to myself, uh, you know, or if
Speaker 1: there's other hunters around. So if I'm in an over
Speaker 1: the counter or general season type unit, if it's a
Speaker 1: if I feel like it's kind of marginal hunting, but
Speaker 1: I got it to myself, I'm probably going to stick
Speaker 1: it out for a while longer because I would just personally,
Speaker 1: I'd rather have a marginal area with solitude versus an
Speaker 1: area that has plenty of elk but also lots of people. Um.
Speaker 1: So I guess those are just a couple of factors.
Speaker 1: You know that, you know that if it's a draw
Speaker 1: tag general and then really if I have it to
Speaker 1: myself or not. Um, But I guess really, I like
Speaker 1: when it comes down to making that decision, like do
Speaker 1: I should I move or not? Um, I know I
Speaker 1: would always rather move too soon and too late. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean if if you're thinking about leaving,
Speaker 1: then it's it's definitely not a great situation to begin with.
Speaker 1: And I almost never make a move and wish I
Speaker 1: was back on the other area, you know, like if anything. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, like a lot of times I end up
Speaker 1: moving areas and I kind of wished i'd have done
Speaker 1: it sooner, gotcha. Yeah, you know, we we always go
Speaker 1: by the mantra don't leave elk to find elk. But
Speaker 1: I also don't like that saying as well, because I
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna sit and you know, as you mentioned,
Speaker 1: if there's only a few elk or I feel like
Speaker 1: my chances of actually you know, making it happen on
Speaker 1: those few elk, Like I'm willing to leave a few
Speaker 1: ELK to go find you better elk or better numbers.
Speaker 1: So yeah, it's definitely on a case by case basis
Speaker 1: for sure. Yeah, and it's a gamble. I mean, that's
Speaker 1: I mean, that's the whole thing. I mean, that's uh,
Speaker 1: Like last year on my Idaho hut um, I was
Speaker 1: in a spot that had a decent amount of elk,
Speaker 1: but it also had an insane amount of people, um
Speaker 1: And it was I stressed out over what should I leave,
Speaker 1: Because like, I knew I could find ELK there every day,
Speaker 1: and I knew that if I left, there's a good
Speaker 1: chance I could find just as many people somewhere else,
Speaker 1: or you know, not as many ELK. But in that instance,
Speaker 1: it ended up being a good decision. I you know,
Speaker 1: I moved areas I found about the same maybe maybe
Speaker 1: even less ELK, but I had the place to myself,
Speaker 1: and you know, I wished I had made that move
Speaker 1: sooner for sure. Yeah. So if you have any questions
Speaker 1: for our guests UM on cutting the distance, make sure
Speaker 1: to email us ct D at phelps game Calls dot
Speaker 1: com or hit us up on social anyway to get
Speaker 1: ahold of us, and we'll make sure to include those
Speaker 1: in here. Now we're gonna jump into the discussion some
Speaker 1: of the questions I had for Nate and some of
Speaker 1: his tactics, and you know the way he likes to
Speaker 1: hunt elk. Sony, It's it's well known that you love
Speaker 1: to backpack hunt for ELK. I would say you're you're
Speaker 1: pretty dang good at it, but Let's say you were
Speaker 1: just getting into elk hunting and want to undertake you know,
Speaker 1: hunting from your back or spiking out or camping with
Speaker 1: the elk, whatever we wanna call it, you know, all
Speaker 1: the different ways we can do it. You know, we
Speaker 1: go up there hunts where we set up a base
Speaker 1: camp and we hunt from there. There's there's times where
Speaker 1: you wake up in the morning, we throw our sleeping
Speaker 1: bag in our tent, in our pack and we're moving on. Um,
Speaker 1: what advice would you have for somebody that's looking to
Speaker 1: maybe get from you know, road hunting or the traditional
Speaker 1: day hunting and get into backpack hunting, Like, what would
Speaker 1: be your advice, um, to maybe give him a shortcut
Speaker 1: versus some of the stuff that you've learned, you know
Speaker 1: over the over the you know many years you've been
Speaker 1: doing it. Um. I guess for somebody that was just
Speaker 1: starting out, I would say that, uh, you know, just
Speaker 1: start out with like one, two or even you know,
Speaker 1: maybe three night outings max. Um. You know, don't try
Speaker 1: and just rip off a week long uh you know
Speaker 1: trip cold turkey. Um. You know. And then also you
Speaker 1: know with that like start out with uh you know,
Speaker 1: like two to four mile type range trips, you know,
Speaker 1: and not try to rip off like a you know,
Speaker 1: a six twelve mile right out of the gate, you know,
Speaker 1: I mean like monster expeditions aren't usually necessary. Um, you know,
Speaker 1: to me, like the biggest advantage of backpacking is just
Speaker 1: the efficiency and the time saved hiking back and forth
Speaker 1: each morning and evening. Um, it's not necessarily like getting
Speaker 1: ten miles deep. I mean a lot of times, like
Speaker 1: I've killed a lot of elk where I've only been
Speaker 1: three miles you know from from the truck. But you know,
Speaker 1: like in the mountains with a pack on, if you're
Speaker 1: having like somewhat rugged terrain with a pack on, like
Speaker 1: I usually like kind of average going about two miles
Speaker 1: an hour, especially if I'm off trail. So if I'm
Speaker 1: three miles back, that means it's gonna take me an
Speaker 1: hour and a half one way to get into the morning,
Speaker 1: and an hour and a half you know, to get
Speaker 1: out that evening, and then more than likely I'm gonna
Speaker 1: get in my truck after I get back to back
Speaker 1: to the truck drive you know, twenty or thirty minutes
Speaker 1: back to my base camp and then go make a
Speaker 1: meal and everything by time you get to bed, you
Speaker 1: gotta you don't get to sleep very much, and you
Speaker 1: gotta get up drive back the trailhead like like you
Speaker 1: get I get so much more sleep, and uh, you know,
Speaker 1: I just have a lot more energy. Even if it's
Speaker 1: only three miles back. It's it's more than worth it
Speaker 1: to me, just from the efficiency standpoint, because in September,
Speaker 1: as you know, it's like the nights are pretty short,
Speaker 1: the days are long, like you're not getting a ton
Speaker 1: of sleep to begin with. Um, So you know, I
Speaker 1: just feel like, you know, just because somebody wants to
Speaker 1: go backpack and doesn't mean Okay, we gotta we gotta
Speaker 1: go eight miles to make it worth it. I don't
Speaker 1: think that's the case at all. Um. And I guess
Speaker 1: the other thing would be just be very critical of
Speaker 1: what you decide to put in your backpack. Um. You know,
Speaker 1: like when you're just starting out, it's easy to pack
Speaker 1: way more than you need, which will really start to
Speaker 1: wear on you, especially when the hunting gets tough. I mean,
Speaker 1: and that's something I still struggle with. You know, I
Speaker 1: always think I probably need that. It's like if you're
Speaker 1: trying to decide if you really need it or not,
Speaker 1: Like there's a decent chance you don't. It's something you
Speaker 1: definitely fine tune with experience, but um, you know, really
Speaker 1: I mean like look up some experienced hunters gearless go
Speaker 1: through it, you know, and uh, you know, like don't
Speaker 1: take too much because I will definitely lead to a shorter,
Speaker 1: you know, more frustrating hunt from my experience, just all
Speaker 1: that weight on your back. Um. And I guess probably
Speaker 1: like the last thing um that I would say that
Speaker 1: for somebody's not done it before. It's just super critical.
Speaker 1: It's just to take good care of your feet. Um.
Speaker 1: I know, it took me a lot of years to
Speaker 1: realize like that quality boots and insoles were more than
Speaker 1: worth the money. Um. You know, like that that's just
Speaker 1: ruined more hunts for me over the years, or even
Speaker 1: if it hasn't ruined them, it's just really led to
Speaker 1: me making decisions that probably ultimately weren't the best decisions,
Speaker 1: you know, to lead to success. I was making decisions
Speaker 1: off of how I felt, you know, and when I
Speaker 1: had blistered feet or I mean like I feel like
Speaker 1: now I've got my my my boot, sock and insul
Speaker 1: system so dialed in that even after a really brutal
Speaker 1: day of hiking with the heavy pack. You know, I
Speaker 1: get I bet get back to camp, and the last
Speaker 1: thing I'm thinking about is my feet. Like I used
Speaker 1: to before I started realizing how important it was to
Speaker 1: invest in quality socks and tools and boots. Like even
Speaker 1: like when I would sit down, like I stopped hiking
Speaker 1: and I just like stopped to listen for bugles, like instant,
Speaker 1: I just wanted to sit down and take, like untie
Speaker 1: my boots. And now I've got everything dialed in. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, I hardly even think about him. And I
Speaker 1: do think that is a really really big deal. Yeah,
Speaker 1: those are those are all great points. And to reiterate
Speaker 1: what Nate said on you know, miles and then nights, UM,
Speaker 1: use those as building blocks. It's a lot easier to
Speaker 1: do four nights after you've camped for three nights, you know,
Speaker 1: and then if you want to, you know, extend it
Speaker 1: to seven and once you've already did a four or
Speaker 1: five and just build on it. Don't You don't go,
Speaker 1: you know, twenty miles deep in the wilderness for ten nights.
Speaker 1: It's just it's not going to be enjoyable right out
Speaker 1: of the gate. And you know, the thing that some
Speaker 1: times people overlook is what happens if you do kill
Speaker 1: and elk back there. The work just begins. And so yeah,
Speaker 1: I use use the distance and the nights is building
Speaker 1: blocks and then you know, build on that. So absolutely
Speaker 1: we all know backpack hunting UM. You know, steep off
Speaker 1: gride type country. UM, pretty physically demanding. What do you
Speaker 1: do to prepare physically? Do you have a regimen? Do
Speaker 1: you just stay in good enough shape year around? Do
Speaker 1: you show up and get in shape on the mountain?
Speaker 1: How do you prepare physically to do this year in
Speaker 1: and year out? Um in the mountains? UM? I guess
Speaker 1: that's also um kind of like hunting in grizzly country.
Speaker 1: It's just like an evolving strategy. I mean, uh, you know,
Speaker 1: like I for for years and years when I was younger,
Speaker 1: I didn't really have to do anything to hunt exactly
Speaker 1: the way I wanted to and to be effective. But
Speaker 1: I'm forty one now, and you know, like every year
Speaker 1: that goes by, I'm just happen to get, uh, you know,
Speaker 1: to where I'm I'm committing to doing more in the
Speaker 1: off season and leading up to hunting season to be
Speaker 1: able to to uh you know, to hunt the way
Speaker 1: that I want to. UM. And I still I mean,
Speaker 1: I don't do as much as a lot of guys.
Speaker 1: You know. I hear you know, their regiment and uh
Speaker 1: you know that's that's great. Un Fortunately for me, I
Speaker 1: don't feel like I need to do that, and I
Speaker 1: spend my time doing other things. But what what I
Speaker 1: do do is I have to be a lot smarter
Speaker 1: now with my diet, UM so that I don't go
Speaker 1: into hunting season with too much extra weight on me um.
Speaker 1: You know, because there was when I was kind of
Speaker 1: making that transition from being able to be young enough
Speaker 1: and get away with whatever. You know, I could eat
Speaker 1: whatever I want to do whatever, and I'd still be
Speaker 1: fine too. Now, you know, I was kind of I
Speaker 1: felt like I was coming out of season, out of
Speaker 1: hunting season in at the weight and shape that I
Speaker 1: needed to be in. And now I'm trying to get
Speaker 1: to where I'm going into hunting season there and so
Speaker 1: I'm just having to be a lot smarter with what
Speaker 1: I'm eating. UM. And uh, you know, it's not like
Speaker 1: I don't really subscribe just strictly to a keto diet,
Speaker 1: but kind of especially like in the months leading up
Speaker 1: to hunting season really just limit the carbs um and
Speaker 1: uh you know, and and try to uh you know,
Speaker 1: shed those extra pounds that I definitely are going to
Speaker 1: help me on the on the mountain. And then as
Speaker 1: far as like actually training goes, UM, you know, I
Speaker 1: keep it pretty simple. UM. You know. I I'm fortunate
Speaker 1: that I live at like I live over five thousand
Speaker 1: feet in elevation, so that that's an asset in uh.
Speaker 1: Uh you know that I don't live down at lower
Speaker 1: elevation because I know that that can make that's a
Speaker 1: tough transition going from lower elevation to higher elevation. But
Speaker 1: I trail run, uh you know, three to five times
Speaker 1: a week, and I kind of usually just you know,
Speaker 1: start out less and I ramped that number up as
Speaker 1: I get closer to hunting season. But I kind of
Speaker 1: start that um in the spring, um and then just
Speaker 1: ramp it up more. Uh you know, as I get
Speaker 1: closer to hunting season and I'm running like three or
Speaker 1: four or five miles uh you know. And that's also
Speaker 1: just kind of something that I start out at less
Speaker 1: mileage and work my way up as it gets closer
Speaker 1: to hunting season. UM. And then I do some very
Speaker 1: basic strength training UM that really has you know, is
Speaker 1: mostly just to strengthen my upper body for our treat performance. UM.
Speaker 1: And that's the same thing, like I don't do it
Speaker 1: year round. Like I can see that that's probably coming. Um,
Speaker 1: I'm guessing that I'm probably I mean, there's gonna come
Speaker 1: a time where this is really going to be more
Speaker 1: required of a year round just to stay right now,
Speaker 1: I have you know a little bit of you know,
Speaker 1: peaks and valleys just in my my physical conditioning. But
Speaker 1: I'm still at an age where I feel like I
Speaker 1: can get away with it. But really where I invest
Speaker 1: a lot more of my time when it comes to
Speaker 1: training is in archery. Um. I spend far more time
Speaker 1: and like just in in in the length of the
Speaker 1: sessions and just the frequency on on on my archery UM,
Speaker 1: just you know, just working on my my my shot,
Speaker 1: my form you know, also as well as just playing
Speaker 1: with equipment, tinkering with veins and stuff. But I do
Speaker 1: feel like, I mean, it's all for nothing if you
Speaker 1: can't make the shot. UM. So I just personally that's
Speaker 1: that's where I spend a large amount of my time
Speaker 1: is on my on my range and you know three
Speaker 1: D shoots. Um, you know, I take I got one
Speaker 1: of those little, those little baby like Rhinehart Elk targets.
Speaker 1: It's easy to throw in the back of my truck
Speaker 1: and I can take that down to the BLM and
Speaker 1: shoot on angles and with weird footing and stuff, and
Speaker 1: I really try to focus on being able to capitalize
Speaker 1: when I get a shot opportunity. Yeah, you're your plan
Speaker 1: at least sounds a lot more more consistent than mine,
Speaker 1: where you eat for whatever you want for nine months
Speaker 1: out of the year and then try to get in
Speaker 1: shape a little bit before season, and then you use
Speaker 1: Elk season to get in shape. So you're planning stuffinitely
Speaker 1: more dialed than mine. But yeah, today's today is actually
Speaker 1: my thirty ninth birthday, So similar to you, I'm probably
Speaker 1: running out of times where my thank you, my my
Speaker 1: mental toughness and uh, everything's gonna just allow me to
Speaker 1: kind of grand through. I'm enough to probably start putting
Speaker 1: a lot more work into it, and I should anyways.
Speaker 1: But um, yeah, so that's great, great tips on getting
Speaker 1: in stand in shape for for your hunt. So let's
Speaker 1: let's dive in a little bit here, Nate Um you know,
Speaker 1: either you've been do an area. It's always nice if
Speaker 1: you've been to an area, but um, you know, you
Speaker 1: can usually stroll back in there and where the elk
Speaker 1: are at from year to year, they will typically be there. Now,
Speaker 1: with that said, they're not always going to be in
Speaker 1: the same place. But if you're if you're looking at
Speaker 1: an area, let's dive in a little bit on how
Speaker 1: you kind of confirm or through eat scouting or what
Speaker 1: do you do to kind of make sure that you're
Speaker 1: gonna show up an elk, whether it's you know, talk
Speaker 1: to biologists, talk to other hunters, talked to you know,
Speaker 1: what are some of those tips and tactics to make
Speaker 1: sure you're gonna end up being an elk? Because it's
Speaker 1: the most obvious thing we can say, but in order
Speaker 1: to kill an elk, you need to be an elk
Speaker 1: or around elk. So walk us through you know kind
Speaker 1: of your your you know, ea, scouting and proofing an
Speaker 1: area before you ever show up to the trailhead. Okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean I still, uh I make this mistake, um,
Speaker 1: you know, like every once. So while I did it
Speaker 1: last year and it costs me, but but generally what
Speaker 1: I do and has worked really well for me. Is
Speaker 1: you know, it definitely starts with the scouting um and
Speaker 1: uh and looking at the aerial imagery, I mean, and
Speaker 1: I toggle back and forth between the top o and uh,
Speaker 1: you know, the satellite imagery quite often, because like I
Speaker 1: was mentioned about Grizzly Country, just from a safety standpoint,
Speaker 1: it's also kind of what I prefer. I like to
Speaker 1: try to pick areas that are open enough and have
Speaker 1: enough topography that so I can get up on glassing
Speaker 1: spots and I'm not at the mercy of the rut um,
Speaker 1: you know that. You know, like that just kind of
Speaker 1: drives me crazy. Um, Like if it would be different
Speaker 1: if if I was only gonna just do if I
Speaker 1: only if I could only go on one elk hunt,
Speaker 1: I had a week to hunt, Um, I wouldn't worry
Speaker 1: about it as much because I would even if I
Speaker 1: was hunting more and like flat are like thick thick
Speaker 1: timber type terrain, I would just really try to plan
Speaker 1: my hunt around a good moon phase and peak of
Speaker 1: the rut so I could really try to stack the
Speaker 1: odds of my favor of the bulls being vocal um,
Speaker 1: which would kind of you know, negate you know that
Speaker 1: that that terrain wouldn't you know, stop me from finding
Speaker 1: them generally. But because I usually I'm trying to, uh
Speaker 1: you know, go on more than one hunt, I can't
Speaker 1: just plan every hunt at the at the perfect time.
Speaker 1: So picking more open terrain that has more topography to it,
Speaker 1: which is just allows me to feel like I still
Speaker 1: have a chance. Even if the bulls are not bugling
Speaker 1: for whatever reason, or if the ruts not really kicked in,
Speaker 1: I still like, I still feel like I have a shot, um,
Speaker 1: you know. And I also so once That's kind of
Speaker 1: how I try to pick an area, and then when
Speaker 1: I get there, you know, I just I show up
Speaker 1: with a bunch of pre marked vantage points and I
Speaker 1: usually just try to stick to uh until I find
Speaker 1: the elk. I definitely try to stick to running the
Speaker 1: ridgeline stand as high as possible, um and uh you know,
Speaker 1: and being able to look off one side of a
Speaker 1: ridge and another but not only use my eyes, but
Speaker 1: you know that also just allows me to hear both
Speaker 1: sides very efficiently, and then from there I'll be you know,
Speaker 1: I'm all right with dropping into the bottom of a canyon,
Speaker 1: but when I'm just trying to find milk um, you know,
Speaker 1: like I definitely like to stick to the tops um
Speaker 1: and uh and and also camping, you know, just from
Speaker 1: from an efficiency standpoint, I like to try to camp
Speaker 1: up high as well, um, just because I feel like
Speaker 1: that gives me an advantage over a lot of other
Speaker 1: people because usually you know, there are exceptions, of course,
Speaker 1: but usually uh, finding water drinking water is a big
Speaker 1: problem is you know, like when you're camped up on
Speaker 1: top um, there's usually not water up on top, but
Speaker 1: I usually still try to camp up there, and it's
Speaker 1: just worth it to me to have to go out
Speaker 1: of my way, make a special trip, you know, drop
Speaker 1: you know, a thousand feet or fift feet in elevation
Speaker 1: and pack water back up because I just feel like it.
Speaker 1: Also it just prevents me from ever like worrying about
Speaker 1: being late to you know, a glassing spot, or being
Speaker 1: tempted to leave early because I have a long hike
Speaker 1: out in the dark or whatever. You know. Just being
Speaker 1: being able to camp close to the elk, I feel
Speaker 1: like is a is a big advantage to just because
Speaker 1: a lot of other hunters are generally wanting to camp
Speaker 1: closer to water. What I found is a lot of times,
Speaker 1: if I'm camped up on top, you know, I can
Speaker 1: be already be making a play on the elk before
Speaker 1: the other hunters even show up that day. Um, you know,
Speaker 1: and that's you know, hopefully I'm in an area where
Speaker 1: don't have to deal with hunting pressure, but that's getting
Speaker 1: to be way harder to find than it used to be,
Speaker 1: so I just kind of factor that in. I mean,
Speaker 1: if I don't have to deal with other hunters, great,
Speaker 1: but I just kind of figure that at least at
Speaker 1: some point, if not every day, I'm that's going to
Speaker 1: be a factor for sure. All Right, Yeah, thanks for
Speaker 1: those tips, and uh now we're gonna jump into elk
Speaker 1: calling and your strategy and anybody that's watched you, um,
Speaker 1: you know over the years, you know sometimes you know
Speaker 1: you're a little more spot in stock. You aren't afraid
Speaker 1: to use calls at times. But let's go in um
Speaker 1: to kind of your strategy and and the older I
Speaker 1: get and and people might laugh at me for being
Speaker 1: a you know, owning a running a game call company,
Speaker 1: and you know, sometimes spot and stock might be the best,
Speaker 1: you know method because those bulls don't have any idea
Speaker 1: that you're on the landscape. You know, if you're keeping
Speaker 1: the wind right, doing everything else right, you know, it's
Speaker 1: you got to owe him in a surprise where some
Speaker 1: people feel that when you call, you know, you're you're
Speaker 1: giving up your you know, the surprise attack or you know,
Speaker 1: giving up your location. So what's your opinion on calling?
Speaker 1: How do you kind of use calling to supplement your
Speaker 1: ELK hunt and give us a little bit on that. Well,
Speaker 1: it's something I'm definitely uh uh you know, working on
Speaker 1: improving because I feel like really like kind of everybody
Speaker 1: has like uh like methods that they prefer and generally
Speaker 1: that's probably just gonna fall in line with what they're
Speaker 1: what they're most skilled at. And uh, you know, I
Speaker 1: don't know, I wouldn't say that I'm like like super
Speaker 1: super skilled when it comes to spotting stock, but I'm
Speaker 1: definitely more skilled at spotting stock than I am as
Speaker 1: a caller. And it's just a confidence thing, you know.
Speaker 1: It's been like like over the years, I've definitely used calling, um,
Speaker 1: you know to locate elk, but I just have had
Speaker 1: I've lacked confidence. Like the last thing I wanted to
Speaker 1: do when I actually got close to ELK was blowing
Speaker 1: a call just because of fear of just messing everything up.
Speaker 1: So uh, you know, over the years, I have been
Speaker 1: uh you know, more silent. But I'm also I'm just
Speaker 1: trying to get better at being opportunistic to where I'm
Speaker 1: just trying to get better at recognizing a situation and
Speaker 1: just adapting in the moment um. I'm trying to I'm
Speaker 1: definitely trying to make that a priority because I mean,
Speaker 1: and don't get me wrong, I've called in. I mean
Speaker 1: There's been a lot of times over the years where
Speaker 1: I've tried to get close without making a sound and realize, hey,
Speaker 1: that's not going to happen, and also recognize, hey, I'm
Speaker 1: in a perfect spot. I'm gonna throw out a cow
Speaker 1: call here or a bugle and I've had it work.
Speaker 1: I mean, I mean even no, I I don't really
Speaker 1: feel like I've I'm a skilled caller. Probably I don't
Speaker 1: know UHT the elk I've killed I've called in, or
Speaker 1: at least calling was you know, the reason I ended
Speaker 1: up killing that bowl. Um, But I'd like to see
Speaker 1: that number improves just because I know that it just
Speaker 1: has to do with my confidence level, my skill level.
Speaker 1: So it's something that I've really, uh put a big
Speaker 1: emphasis on over the last couple of years, um, just
Speaker 1: improving the quality of sounds I can make in the consistency,
Speaker 1: because it's also just like anything else. I mean, it's
Speaker 1: one thing to do it at home, you know, and
Speaker 1: then to do it when you know, like the elk
Speaker 1: that are a hundred and fifty yards away are going
Speaker 1: to hear you. Um, you know, just so it's definitely
Speaker 1: something I've been working on and just trying to recognize that.
Speaker 1: I mean, uh, you know, like just if if there's
Speaker 1: a bunch of other people blowing on calls in the area,
Speaker 1: I'm probably gonna be less likely. But if I get
Speaker 1: into a canyon where the elker being real volke and
Speaker 1: aggressive and I'm not seeing a bunch of boot tracks,
Speaker 1: like I should probably switch gears from going hey, don't
Speaker 1: be quiet, Like I should probably go calling first, you know,
Speaker 1: because when that works, I mean, they can, as you
Speaker 1: know as well as anyone, like it can be over
Speaker 1: really fast when the conditions are right, Yeah for sure.
Speaker 1: And and you kind of touched on a little bit
Speaker 1: like reading the situation and I feel, um, you know,
Speaker 1: over the last ten years, that's what's maybe helped me
Speaker 1: become more successful was being able to read the situation
Speaker 1: like this is, We've been in this situation enough. We've
Speaker 1: got the experience that hey this you know, I've seen
Speaker 1: bowls act this way. They've had this many cows, this
Speaker 1: many satellite bowls. You know, I couldn't approach with the
Speaker 1: spot in Stock. The only answer is to call, Like
Speaker 1: being able to look at a situation and know and Sarah,
Speaker 1: you know bowl A, I've got a chance to call.
Speaker 1: You know, I'm being real exact here, but you know,
Speaker 1: hey that bowl over there, bull be we wouldn't want
Speaker 1: to call to. We would want to approach with Spot
Speaker 1: and Stock because of where he's set up, and we've
Speaker 1: got really good approach and you know, the terrain lays
Speaker 1: out in a way where he never see me coming,
Speaker 1: you know, and then look at bull see. I think
Speaker 1: being able to evaluate user experience, use the bulls location,
Speaker 1: you know his how vocally is all of those things,
Speaker 1: and make an educated decision on you know, whether there's
Speaker 1: three bowls or whether there's you know, a single bowl
Speaker 1: that you're gonna go after, Like knowing what gives you
Speaker 1: the best shot, and then what I've really been working
Speaker 1: on lately, um is whether to be patient, Like that's
Speaker 1: never been an option. It was always you know, hustle
Speaker 1: over there and called to it, hustle over there in
Speaker 1: spot and stocket. But now it's hey, maybe waiting a
Speaker 1: night in and attacking that that situation or that set
Speaker 1: up in the morning is going to be best. And
Speaker 1: I feel that's starting to lead to more consistent success
Speaker 1: with me versus just you know, being young and dumb
Speaker 1: and charging in every time, putting some information together, having
Speaker 1: enough experience to make a good, good decision, and then
Speaker 1: you know, executing it. Yep, No, I totally agree. That's
Speaker 1: I guess that's another reason I like, uh hunting an
Speaker 1: open terrain because I do feel like, just like what
Speaker 1: you're saying, it gives it gives me a ton of
Speaker 1: confidence if I can actually see that bull in his
Speaker 1: behavior and it's just the way that you know, his mannerisms,
Speaker 1: how he's interacting with other elk. Like if I can
Speaker 1: see that, it's one thing to hear their bugle and
Speaker 1: it's like, well, he might sound pissed, but that doesn't
Speaker 1: mean like he's an ultra aggressive you know elk that's
Speaker 1: just intolerant of any other bulls around him. But if
Speaker 1: you can watch him, you can usually get a pretty
Speaker 1: good idea and it can change. You mean, you might
Speaker 1: watch the bull one evening and go, man, he's just
Speaker 1: you know, he's just kind of tending his cows. Doesn't
Speaker 1: seem ultra aggressive, you know, like doesn't seem like a
Speaker 1: great situation for calling. Maybe and then the next morning,
Speaker 1: you know, there might be a couple other bulls over there,
Speaker 1: just got him super annoyed, and you can look at
Speaker 1: and go, chee, if we can get down there and
Speaker 1: just squeak off a bugle. Like the way he's acting,
Speaker 1: he's probably gonna come over and check it out. Yeah yeah,
Speaker 1: well yeah, that's great advice on calling and you know,
Speaker 1: using it when it works, and then you know, not
Speaker 1: being afraid to go you know, spot and stock to
Speaker 1: to to finish off the hunt. So one thing I've noticed, Nate,
Speaker 1: and uh, you know, no fault of your own, but
Speaker 1: you know it's hunting. A lot of your hunts have
Speaker 1: you know, have over the years have come down to
Speaker 1: you know, final days or even hours. Are there any
Speaker 1: tips you can give the listeners to like, stay focused,
Speaker 1: stay committed to the goal. Um, you know, I've I've
Speaker 1: been able to gain confidence just because I've had enough
Speaker 1: experience where UM, I wasn't willing to go home empty handed.
Speaker 1: But shoot, no matter how good I executed everything, no
Speaker 1: matter what happened, you know, the winds still the wind.
Speaker 1: The elk are still the elk. And you know we
Speaker 1: do end up killing something on day eight of of
Speaker 1: attend day hunt or day nine of atten day hunt
Speaker 1: or shoot. Last year, UM, Ryan Lamper's and myself we
Speaker 1: killed on the last ten minutes that we had in
Speaker 1: New Mexico. UM, how do you stay positive? How do
Speaker 1: you stay committed? UM? Are there any tips? Um? You
Speaker 1: know a lot of it comes with mental toughness, But
Speaker 1: I want to see if you have any tips out
Speaker 1: there for keeping people? UM. You know, you know, sticking
Speaker 1: to the goal. Uh. And it's something that might not
Speaker 1: be able to be taught, but if if you have
Speaker 1: any advice, UM, I'm sure everybody would would love to
Speaker 1: hear it. Well. I guess one thing for me, UM,
Speaker 1: that just kind of helps me. UM. I don't know
Speaker 1: if it's stayed positive. I'm a little bit more. I'm
Speaker 1: more pestimist than an optimist. But I guess one thing
Speaker 1: that just kind of keeps me um, you know, more
Speaker 1: locked in. Is just I almost feel like that feeling
Speaker 1: that you get when you're like it's completely hopeless, like
Speaker 1: that we have no chance, like this is not happening.
Speaker 1: Like I almost feel like that is prerequisite like to
Speaker 1: killing and olk like like I just kind of joke
Speaker 1: around sometimes it's Randy. It's like when we we both
Speaker 1: get to that point where we're like we completely we
Speaker 1: just feel like idiots, like we're completely wasting our time,
Speaker 1: like we've totally forgot how how to hunt. Help I
Speaker 1: just feel like, Okay, well, you know, we got that
Speaker 1: out of the way, now we can go kill one
Speaker 1: like that. I just feel like that's that's you know,
Speaker 1: like it's not it's you know, as awful as it feels,
Speaker 1: I just feel like that's how it always feels. And
Speaker 1: it just kind of reassures me that it's like this
Speaker 1: is not even though the moment of that hunt it
Speaker 1: feels extra special, like it's like nope, this is worse
Speaker 1: than normal, and it really is, like that's just how
Speaker 1: they all feel. And I guess that probably has to
Speaker 1: do with the fact that like the alkhunts that I've
Speaker 1: went on have been over the counter like general season
Speaker 1: type hunts, and they're almost always tough with low odds
Speaker 1: of success. Um, you know, most people go home empty handed,
Speaker 1: like they're they're tough hunts to begin with. Even though
Speaker 1: like I've had some bright spots, like I've had some
Speaker 1: days that were incredible over the years, most the majority
Speaker 1: of the days are very difficult. And even on hunts
Speaker 1: where you end up taking a bull, it wasn't because
Speaker 1: the hunting was incredible. You know, it usually feels impossible,
Speaker 1: and I guess just because that's what I'm used to doing. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, like I just I don't let it get
Speaker 1: like get me down, and it kind of helps me
Speaker 1: stay focused knowing, hey, I might only have a day
Speaker 1: laft or an evening laft or whatever. Um, you know,
Speaker 1: it happens when it happens, and you can go from
Speaker 1: I mean it literally can I have a lot of
Speaker 1: the olk I've killed old an hour beforehand. There's no
Speaker 1: way you could have convinced me that I was going
Speaker 1: to be standing over a nice bowl like it just
Speaker 1: when it happens, it happens. Yeah, And that's that's what
Speaker 1: I use, is my motivation because and it is drawn
Speaker 1: from experience. But I think by you know, passing on
Speaker 1: our experience to somebody that maybe hasn't been there, is
Speaker 1: very similar to those hunts, like day six or seven,
Speaker 1: we're struggling, We moved areas, you know, the next area
Speaker 1: is okay, We're we're in elk, but just nothing's coming together,
Speaker 1: you know, the wind swirling, whatever it may be. We're
Speaker 1: just not gonna you know, we're never gonna kill an
Speaker 1: elk here. And then it only ever takes out one time. Um,
Speaker 1: it's at one bowl where the wind stays right, he's
Speaker 1: committed and it's over just like that. And there have
Speaker 1: been a few hunts where nothing ever went right besides
Speaker 1: that one thirty minute window you know, where that bull
Speaker 1: comes in. We're able to execute everything and and kill it.
Speaker 1: But it's knowing that on day six or seven of
Speaker 1: a hard hunt things aren't going your way, that it
Speaker 1: only takes one it only takes out one bowl in
Speaker 1: the one area, UM to do a few things, you know, wrong,
Speaker 1: and for us to do a few things right, and
Speaker 1: you would never know that that was a bad hunt.
Speaker 1: So you're gonna remember success. And uh so, yeah, we
Speaker 1: we feed off of that, you know, past experience that
Speaker 1: it only takes one Yep, absolutely. I mean I love
Speaker 1: it when when the bulls are going crazy and everything,
Speaker 1: but you know, most of the all kunts that have
Speaker 1: ended up being successful for me, that's pretty rare when
Speaker 1: that happens. And killed killed bulls on hunts where I've
Speaker 1: only seen one bull, and I've killed bulls on hunts
Speaker 1: where I've never even heard a bugle. So you know,
Speaker 1: that just reinforces uh, you know the fact that you
Speaker 1: just can't let tough unet and get you down. You
Speaker 1: just gotta you know, stay after it because you never
Speaker 1: know that you know, just over the next rise, you
Speaker 1: know that might be where it all comes together. Yep, yep.
Speaker 1: Let's jump into the shop. And and you've talked about
Speaker 1: it just a little bit ago that you're spending a
Speaker 1: lot of time on archery. You know, if if you're
Speaker 1: anything like us, we at some point throughout a day
Speaker 1: probably think about elk. You know, three or six or
Speaker 1: five days a year, UM, we were gearing up, we're
Speaker 1: looking at gear, you know, whatever it may be. We're
Speaker 1: we're always building success. But everything we do all year long,
Speaker 1: UM comes down, in my opinion, to one shot and
Speaker 1: we have to execute that one shot. You know, all
Speaker 1: these practice shots in our driveway, you know, none of
Speaker 1: that counts besides killing foam. When it comes down to it,
Speaker 1: you know, you get one shot. And when you're in
Speaker 1: your driveway or in your yard or at your range
Speaker 1: a lot of times, you know, you're pretty comfortable your
Speaker 1: heart rates, you know where it needs to be. You're
Speaker 1: not sweating, you don't have you know, you go out
Speaker 1: in the mountains, you know you might just put on
Speaker 1: a heck of a stock to try to cut, you know,
Speaker 1: off some some elk, you're probably sweating. You've got an
Speaker 1: elevated heart rate. Um, you've gotta you know, seven pound
Speaker 1: live animal in you. You've gotta machieta, missuchito, mosquito maybe
Speaker 1: maybe chewing on your neck, and you've got to execute
Speaker 1: that shot. Can you give um you know the listeners
Speaker 1: some you know your shot process to make sure when
Speaker 1: it comes down to it, you execute and make a
Speaker 1: great shot. And um, there's a component to this that
Speaker 1: and you may be able to to elaborate on it.
Speaker 1: It's tough because when you finally get your chance, if
Speaker 1: you haven't been in that position a whole lot of times,
Speaker 1: it's tough to control your emotions as well, so kind
Speaker 1: of wrap up and I still get excited, so I
Speaker 1: still have to kind of walk myself through that. But
Speaker 1: you go through that shot process and how to execute
Speaker 1: a good shot when it matters. Um. Well, I guess
Speaker 1: this might not be the best answer for an elk
Speaker 1: cutting podcast, but it's uh, honestly for me. One of
Speaker 1: the things that will definitely the thing that's helped me
Speaker 1: the most is just the high country mulder hunting that
Speaker 1: I've done and what that's led me to do because
Speaker 1: on average, uh you know, taking a shot at a
Speaker 1: high country mule deer and steep terrain, they're they're a
Speaker 1: smaller target than an elk. They're usually it's it's a
Speaker 1: lot harder to get close to them. You're not gonna
Speaker 1: be calling them in. Um, so usually a lot more
Speaker 1: challenging shots. And because I usually try to get in
Speaker 1: high country mulder hunt every year, uh, you know, all
Speaker 1: out of my my my bow build and my training
Speaker 1: has to do with setting myself up to be successful
Speaker 1: um for that, and and you know, like a nice
Speaker 1: byproduct of that has been if I can get my
Speaker 1: setup and my uh you know, dialed in to make
Speaker 1: longer shots at mulder and steep terrain, and I can
Speaker 1: you know, get my my equipment dialed into where I
Speaker 1: feel comfortable with those shots, Like shots on elk feel
Speaker 1: really easy, um and you know, And so my training
Speaker 1: has a lot to do with really preparing, Like when
Speaker 1: I'm doing my training instead of my bow, like, I'm
Speaker 1: really I'm not thinking about elk. I'm thinking about that,
Speaker 1: you know, one shot that I might get at a
Speaker 1: high country mule deer and knowing that it's going to
Speaker 1: be potentially a lot longer shot. Um. And you know,
Speaker 1: they have a tendency to jump the string. So I'm
Speaker 1: really focused on trying to get my arrow flight as
Speaker 1: quiet as possible, my my my bow as quiet as possible.
Speaker 1: But I'm just I'm really like when I'm practicing, I'm
Speaker 1: really challenging myself stretching out the stints, um, you know,
Speaker 1: and shooting uh you know at long distances at my
Speaker 1: three D deer target, um, you know, and just really
Speaker 1: trying to get comfortable, um you know, holding my pen
Speaker 1: in a in a small area on long shots and
Speaker 1: all that translate into like when I get to full
Speaker 1: drawn elk, like it usually feels really super comfortable. Just
Speaker 1: but but if all I did was ELK and that's
Speaker 1: all I was gearing up for, you know, I might,
Speaker 1: I might approach it a little bit differently, and you
Speaker 1: know those shots might feel the more challenging. But I know,
Speaker 1: like being geared up for those Dear um, you know,
Speaker 1: definitely like it's a huge uh you know byproduct is
Speaker 1: just you know, I feel so much more confident on ELK.
Speaker 1: But one thing I do for ELK very specifically, and
Speaker 1: I'm sure it helps me on Dear too. But one
Speaker 1: thing for sure, as you know, on ELK, like you
Speaker 1: never hardly ever get to shoot in a rhythm. You know,
Speaker 1: when you're out practicing on the range, like you draw back,
Speaker 1: you know, you you hold about the same amount of time,
Speaker 1: like everything's like in rhythm, and you kind of have
Speaker 1: a shot sequence you go through um and that almost
Speaker 1: almost always gets blown up on ELK. I mean a
Speaker 1: lot of times you end up, you know, having to
Speaker 1: draw and then having to hold for a very long
Speaker 1: time because you see that bowl coming in and you
Speaker 1: draw when you have cover, and then you know he
Speaker 1: might stop and pause when you don't have a shot,
Speaker 1: and then he comes a little closer, and then you
Speaker 1: finally do get your shot or the angles wrong and
Speaker 1: you gotta wait, you might have to step over to
Speaker 1: the side. UM. So so much of that your your
Speaker 1: normal sequence goes out the window. And UH. Not only
Speaker 1: do I like to practice that, you know, shooting out
Speaker 1: a sequence or maybe getting to full draw and taking
Speaker 1: a couple of steps you know, one way or the other. Um.
Speaker 1: One thing I really like to do is end my
Speaker 1: shooting sessions with uh. And I like to record all
Speaker 1: this and document it so that I can see that
Speaker 1: the growth. But I'll I'll after my shooting sessions over
Speaker 1: with before I hang my bow up. You know, I
Speaker 1: was going to garage, and I'll get my iPhone out
Speaker 1: and I get the you know the timer stop watch
Speaker 1: out my iPhone and I'll just you know, hit start
Speaker 1: and I'll draw back my bow and I'll hold it
Speaker 1: as long as I possibly can, and then when I
Speaker 1: let down, I'll stop it and I just write write
Speaker 1: that number down on my white board. UM. And then
Speaker 1: I also usually write down like how many how much
Speaker 1: with the poundage is on that set up, and what
Speaker 1: the you know percentage of let off is, just so
Speaker 1: I have that as a reference point then and then
Speaker 1: after I do that, um, I will Uh. I have
Speaker 1: this like rubber band that's made specifically for archers. I
Speaker 1: think a company called like m D fifty gear. I
Speaker 1: think it's the name of the company that makes them.
Speaker 1: But they make this rubber band that's got a handle
Speaker 1: on both ends and uh, I can't remember. They have
Speaker 1: a couple different poundages, but I have the heaviest one.
Speaker 1: And then I also used the time around my phone
Speaker 1: and I'll set it to like seconds, and it'll start time,
Speaker 1: and I'll draw that back and I'll hold it at
Speaker 1: full draw for forty five seconds until my phone beeps
Speaker 1: at me, and then I'll let down and uh. And
Speaker 1: I'll do that three times, and I kind of build
Speaker 1: that up, you know. I probably I start out like
Speaker 1: thirty five seconds, and then I end up as I
Speaker 1: build my strength seconds hold. I'm constantly just trying to
Speaker 1: get to where it's like almost seems impossible for me
Speaker 1: to hold that last one back. Um. And I really
Speaker 1: like you can see it when you when I'm recording
Speaker 1: it on my white board, you know, from when I
Speaker 1: start that, you know, And I don't like start that
Speaker 1: like right away when you know and I shoot pretty
Speaker 1: much year round, whether it's you know, in my in
Speaker 1: my shop in the wintertime at twenty yards, I shoot
Speaker 1: you around. But I don't do this routine y're around.
Speaker 1: I usually start this like in June, um and then
Speaker 1: ramp it up to hunting season. But you can just
Speaker 1: see that growth. I mean, the the amount of hold
Speaker 1: time just increases substantially, and I can feel it when
Speaker 1: I'm shooting, you know so, And I feel like that's
Speaker 1: just a really huge asset when it comes to hunting
Speaker 1: elk in particular. I mean any hunting that's going to
Speaker 1: be an asset, but l cunting in particular. Um, just
Speaker 1: being able to increase that amount of time that you
Speaker 1: could comfortably hold your bow back and still execute a shot.
Speaker 1: I just feel like that's invaluable because I don't I know,
Speaker 1: you've been there over the years as many times I
Speaker 1: where it's like you've held so long you're not even
Speaker 1: sure how your pen is like wiggling all over the
Speaker 1: even ten yards um, And that's just it's just you know,
Speaker 1: it gives me a ton of confidence. Yeah, I'm I'm
Speaker 1: completely on board with you. There. You used to there
Speaker 1: was a day back when I thought I needed to
Speaker 1: shoot an eighty pound bow, and then I realized that
Speaker 1: the longer I can hold with a seventy pound bow
Speaker 1: was way more important than you know, getting an extra answer.
Speaker 1: Penetration and one thing I found especially when calling elk
Speaker 1: um there, you know, probably seven eight years ago, I
Speaker 1: was getting you know, and before that I was getting
Speaker 1: caught drawing a lot on on collins as bulls came in,
Speaker 1: I would wait too long. And so then as of late,
Speaker 1: I've started drawing a lot earlier, which is giving me
Speaker 1: a lot better chances. But just like you had mentioned,
Speaker 1: I'm now um holding my bow for you know, upwards
Speaker 1: of a minute a minute and a half um. One
Speaker 1: particular scenario two thousand sixteen in Idaho, we called a
Speaker 1: bull in and really is timber, and I had seen
Speaker 1: him come over the rise drew and I think I
Speaker 1: held to like to sixteen um. He finally had to
Speaker 1: let and finally had to let down the bulls at
Speaker 1: twenty five yards. I'm like, I can't even make a
Speaker 1: shot on this thing, Like I have no more control
Speaker 1: over holding this where it needs to be. Thankfully he
Speaker 1: went out the thirty five and I had just that
Speaker 1: little five second rest had given me enough to get
Speaker 1: drawn and um killed the bull. But yeah, hold holding
Speaker 1: your bow um. You know, I don't I haven't subscribed
Speaker 1: to the tips and tactics of like you know, once
Speaker 1: your cams rolled over, like holding it against your leg
Speaker 1: or any of that. I usually typically just stay focused
Speaker 1: and on the animal, um because then if you're holding
Speaker 1: it on your leg, you still have to come up,
Speaker 1: you know, to your peep and do execute. So I
Speaker 1: I don't know what that buy some people when they
Speaker 1: roll the cam over on their their leg. But yeah,
Speaker 1: drawing early is is way more beneficial. But then, as
Speaker 1: you had mentioned, everything you're practicing to hold longer is
Speaker 1: you're gonna have to You're gonna have to be comfortable
Speaker 1: holding for that long. Yeah. I would. It would freak
Speaker 1: me out to try to hold my cam back anyway.
Speaker 1: Just I would be so afraid that I would derail
Speaker 1: the string off of the cam just because you know
Speaker 1: how there's really not a lot of torque at full drop,
Speaker 1: just because of the leadoff, Like it would be super
Speaker 1: easy for something to go wrong and that uh, that
Speaker 1: that string to come right out of the track. But
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm sure some people must have perfected it,
Speaker 1: but I would be scared to do that. So yeah,
Speaker 1: just trying to increate my holding straight is a is
Speaker 1: the route that I go. But another thing I guess
Speaker 1: I like to do um with that rubber band. And
Speaker 1: this doesn't have to do with holding strength, but it
Speaker 1: does have to do with um, you know, just feeling good.
Speaker 1: Is I was for a long time, I was um
Speaker 1: you know, and I still I shoot a ton um
Speaker 1: and I was ended up with a lot of neck
Speaker 1: pain and like in back pain and stuff. So I
Speaker 1: kept going to chiropractor and he's like, man, you know,
Speaker 1: he finally figured. He's like, you're you know, you're you're
Speaker 1: like lopsided, You're you're drawing, You're using all these muscles
Speaker 1: on one one party, you know, one side of your
Speaker 1: body and not the other. He's like, you need to
Speaker 1: draw your bow back backwards. And I'm like, well, you
Speaker 1: can't draw the cables earned the way to draw your
Speaker 1: compound you know, back. So for a while I was
Speaker 1: like stringing up my recurve just so that I could
Speaker 1: drop back left handed, just to try to balance things out.
Speaker 1: And that's what that's part of my routine now. And
Speaker 1: that rubber band makes it really easy to where when
Speaker 1: I'm doing that, when I'm resting in between my forty
Speaker 1: second holds that ever band, I draw back, reverse and
Speaker 1: just try to exercise those muscles balance things out. Um,
Speaker 1: and that in combination with daily stretching has really helped
Speaker 1: where you know, it's like I don't have to go
Speaker 1: to chiropractor, you know, hardly at all anymore. And I
Speaker 1: do attribute it to uh, to that at least in part. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's that's great, great information for everybody. And you know,
Speaker 1: getting to see you know, good archers like yourself, you know,
Speaker 1: getting to shoot around and Brian Barney and some of
Speaker 1: these guys that are just you know amazing. What that
Speaker 1: you guys make me want to be a better archer,
Speaker 1: you know, because I've always just been like, ah, six
Speaker 1: and you know Elk's got a twelve by twelve killzone.
Speaker 1: I get it within six inches. We're well within the
Speaker 1: margin of air. But you know, watching watching some of
Speaker 1: you guys pound tight groups at long distances, you know,
Speaker 1: preparing for what you had said, the tougher target in
Speaker 1: a meal deear um has made me want to to
Speaker 1: get better at at archery. So no great points there
Speaker 1: on on executing the shot and how you prepare you
Speaker 1: for the for for when the shot comes around. In closing, here, Nate,
Speaker 1: if you could leave everybody with one kind of golden nugget,
Speaker 1: um to become a better l hunter or something, you know,
Speaker 1: maybe people aren't thinking about what would it be, Um,
Speaker 1: I guess it would really just uh, to be adaptive,
Speaker 1: you know, It's something that um, you know, I'm really
Speaker 1: trying to get better at myself, and I do think
Speaker 1: that it's really helped me. I know for sure, it's
Speaker 1: hurt me over the years going into hunts with tunnel
Speaker 1: vision like here, here's what I'm this is my game plan,
Speaker 1: this is what I'm gonna I'm gonna stick to that.
Speaker 1: And you know I've eate tags over the years just
Speaker 1: being hardheaded. Um, and I feel like just being adaptive,
Speaker 1: you know. And you know, regardless of what method hunting
Speaker 1: style you're more skilled at or you just prefer, you know,
Speaker 1: just don't get tunnel vision, you know, don't just just think, hey,
Speaker 1: I'm only gonna try calling or only spotting stock or
Speaker 1: only sitting over you know, over water, over wallows like,
Speaker 1: you know, just to be more opportunistic to try to
Speaker 1: just read quickly, you know, situations quickly, and adapt um
Speaker 1: you know, and don't be afraid to try new things
Speaker 1: and uh you know, and just you know, and that
Speaker 1: kind of ties in with uh you know, like you
Speaker 1: were talking about earlier, like how long to stay in
Speaker 1: an area moved, Like don't be afraid to uh to
Speaker 1: keep moving, like if you're not finding elk or you're
Speaker 1: being frustrated, like keep moving and like all that stuff.
Speaker 1: Just being being adaptive, opportunistic, you know, just rolling with
Speaker 1: the punches and having you know, really good backup plans
Speaker 1: ready to go. Like I just never ever go into
Speaker 1: a hunt with one area, just because even if it
Speaker 1: looks perfect, like some little hell hole that nobody else
Speaker 1: is gonna want to go to, like today's day and age,
Speaker 1: like there's gonna be somebody else there more than likely.
Speaker 1: Like I always have went into hunts with backup plans.
Speaker 1: But you know now I feel like in today's day
Speaker 1: and age, like you know, having planned A B and
Speaker 1: C is probably not enough. Like I like to have
Speaker 1: a pretty good plan, you know, for for multiple areas,
Speaker 1: just so that if things aren't happening, like I'm not
Speaker 1: gonna try to grind you know, and be frustrated in
Speaker 1: one area too long for sure. Yeah. We always use
Speaker 1: the analogy um of you know, have all the tools
Speaker 1: in your toolbox. You know, you a carpenter would never
Speaker 1: show up to build your house with a with a
Speaker 1: crescent ranch and the Philip screw driver. You know, he's
Speaker 1: got a specific tool for everything that he does. And
Speaker 1: us as el hunters, you know, be be armed with
Speaker 1: as many tools, have your toolbox completely loaded up, and
Speaker 1: then know how to use you know, at least use
Speaker 1: most of them. UM is going to make your job
Speaker 1: a lot easier. So we really appreciate having you on here. Nate,
Speaker 1: can you let anybody know, um, you know you're not
Speaker 1: all over social media, but you know, can you let
Speaker 1: people know about Western Hunter, um where they can find you,
Speaker 1: you know, where you're airing any of that sort of stuff. Um. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so no, I'm not on social media. I'm one of
Speaker 1: those weirdos. But uh, and I guess right now, I'm
Speaker 1: not even totally sure what I think. I heard that
Speaker 1: the Western Hunter uh Instagram page got shut down by
Speaker 1: like because they thought it was you know, to uh
Speaker 1: you know, like anti hunting, anti hunters, you know, didn't
Speaker 1: like it or something, But I think we've got Western
Speaker 1: Hunter Magazine still has a page and that's kind of
Speaker 1: where they're sharing some of their their stuff. So you
Speaker 1: know Western Hunter Magazine on Instagram, I believe is the place.
Speaker 1: And then um, yeah, then Western Hunter. Uh, we're getting
Speaker 1: ready to air our tenth season on the Sportsman's Channel
Speaker 1: beginning the last week in June. UM, so the season ten,
Speaker 1: the new episodes will be airing their beginning then, and
Speaker 1: then all of our past seasons are avail double on
Speaker 1: the UM the Western Hunter website, UM for people that
Speaker 1: get a super subscription to the magazine to get access
Speaker 1: to all of our past seasons. You know, there's like,
Speaker 1: you know, well over a hundred episodes. They're all all
Speaker 1: the previous nine seasons. And then those seasons are also
Speaker 1: on the Sportsman's Channel digital platform as well on the
Speaker 1: m OTV app. I think it's uh my Outdoor tv
Speaker 1: UM and they have an app and all of our
Speaker 1: past seasons are on there as well. Perfect well, I
Speaker 1: really appreciate it. Nate. You know, one of the few
Speaker 1: guys I've you know, looked up to as an elk
Speaker 1: hunter and always you know, like the way you did it.
Speaker 1: Like like how humble you were and um you consistently
Speaker 1: get it done year after years. So thanks for joining
Speaker 1: us and good luck this fall that was honored to
Speaker 1: be on here a share you ask me, Thank you
Speaker 1: m hm