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Speaker 1: Welcome to Good Game with Sarah Spain, where we're rubbing

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Speaker 1: our engines and relishing in the fresh scent of burnt

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Speaker 1: rubber and gasoline. It's Tuesday, April twenty ninth. That on

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Speaker 1: the rest of our shows this week, we'll be doing

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Speaker 1: something a little different. We're going to introduce you to

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Speaker 1: some of the many wonderful shows on the Iheartwomen's Sports Network.

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Speaker 1: Today we're bringing you an episode of Throttle Therapy with

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Speaker 1: Catherine Legg.

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Speaker 2: I had the.

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Speaker 1: Pleasure of talking to the motorsport pioneer and twenty year

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Speaker 1: pro racing vet on our January twenty second show, but

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Speaker 1: today we want to bring you an episode of her

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Speaker 1: podcast Uninterrupted. To prepare you for what you're about to hear,

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Speaker 1: we ask Catherine to tell us a little bit about

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Speaker 1: her show.

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Speaker 2: Take a listen. Hey, Hey, this is Catherine Legg and

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Speaker 2: I am the host of the podcast Throttle Therapy. It

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Speaker 2: will give you an inside of you of the mind

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Speaker 2: and the life of a female race card driver in

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Speaker 2: a male dominated arena, and we interview and speak with

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Speaker 2: a bunch of influential people within the racing world, but

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Speaker 2: also my friends and family. So you get a glimpse

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Speaker 2: of what it's like to be the only female driver

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Speaker 2: in a sea of men, and what my everyday life

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Speaker 2: is like and what my life is like on track.

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Speaker 1: We also asked what to expect from the episode that

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Speaker 1: we're about to air. Her conversation with Lynn Saint James

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Speaker 1: from March eighteenth.

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Speaker 2: I absolutely adore this episode. It's with a very good

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Speaker 2: friend of mine, lind Sent James. She is an absolute legend.

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Speaker 2: For those of you who don't know her, she opened

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Speaker 2: the door and broke the glass ceilings for all of

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Speaker 2: the female race CLU drivers that came after her. There

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Speaker 2: was really only two or three before her, and it

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Speaker 2: was in a time when it was really tough to

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Speaker 2: break into male dominated arenas. So she is one of

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Speaker 2: the many reasons that we are able to do what

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Speaker 2: we love today.

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Speaker 1: Thanks so much to Catherine. I think we're more than

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Speaker 1: ready for the episode now. And by the way, before

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Speaker 1: we go to break here, I just I have to

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Speaker 1: say something. Catherine raced in the NASCAR Xfinity Series race

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Speaker 1: at Rockingham Speedway on April nineteenth, and she was involved

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Speaker 1: in a crash on the fifty second lap that took

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Speaker 1: her and fellow driver Casey Caine out she was eliminated

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Speaker 1: from the race. Cain lost a lap but recovered to

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Speaker 1: finish fourteenth overall. Now, after the fact, Catherine received a

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Speaker 1: disgusting amount of hate mail and death threats from auto

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Speaker 1: racing fans, even though she didn't start the crash, and

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Speaker 1: she addressed it head on in the April twenty second

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Speaker 1: episode of her podcast Bottle Therapy, saying quote, let me

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Speaker 1: be very clear, I'm here to race, and I'm here

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Speaker 1: to compete, and I won't tolerate any of these threats

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Speaker 1: to my safety or to my dignity, whether that's on

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Speaker 1: track or off of it. She went on to say, quote, Luckily,

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Speaker 1: I have been in tougher battles than you guys in

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Speaker 1: the comment sections.

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Speaker 2: End quote.

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Speaker 1: And I just want to say, anybody who played a

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Speaker 1: role in the hate and the vitriol sent Catherine's way,

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Speaker 1: it is neither surprising nor novel to see a woman

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Speaker 1: in a male dominated field get an outsized amount of hate.

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Speaker 1: But that doesn't make it any less infuriating. And I

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Speaker 1: have to say I loved seeing longtime racer Marco Andretti

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Speaker 1: call out the trolls.

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Speaker 2: He posted quote.

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Speaker 1: It's wild to me how many grown men talk badly

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Speaker 1: about badass girls like this. Does it make them feel

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Speaker 1: more manly from the couch or something as usual? And

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Speaker 1: as we've seen over and over over again, game recognize

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Speaker 1: this game. So anyway, now that we're done addressing that bullshit,

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Speaker 1: the episode of Throttle Therapy with Lynd Saint James is

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Speaker 1: coming up right after this.

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Speaker 2: Throttle Therapy with Catherine Legg is an iHeart women's sports

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Speaker 2: production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You

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Speaker 2: can find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or

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Speaker 2: wherever you get your podcasts. Hey you guys, Welcome to

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Speaker 2: Throttle Therapy with me Katherine Legg. I've obviously come off

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Speaker 2: a pretty rough first NASCAR weekend. It was a long

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Speaker 2: week and I've got a lot of work to do

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Speaker 2: too for redemption and to come back. But I'm going

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Speaker 2: to take a few days with my very good friend

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Speaker 2: Kara Chris Dolin. She is the head engineer for Bridgestone

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Speaker 2: Firestone Racing in North America. We've been friends for a

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Speaker 2: very long time and we're going to go and let

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Speaker 2: our hair down and do some skiing this weekend, so

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Speaker 2: that will be a lot of fun. This week we

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Speaker 2: are talking to the wonderful Lencent James. Lynn is a

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Speaker 2: legend who came up through the racing ranks a little

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Speaker 2: bit before me, when it was a little bit harder,

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Speaker 2: and she definitely was breaking barriers and glass ceilings and

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Speaker 2: has dedicated her life to the pursuit of women in

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Speaker 2: motorsport and she's become a very good friend of mine,

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Speaker 2: a sounding board and as I said before, an absolute legend. Hi,

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Speaker 2: Lindca and James, how are you hello?

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Speaker 3: Well, locut you, I'm just glad to be a you know,

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Speaker 3: I've been watching these and I'm like, I wonder if

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Speaker 3: she'll ever reach out to me and write.

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Speaker 2: Of course you're on the list, like pretty early on,

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Speaker 2: I think it was who do you want to go

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Speaker 2: on the podcast? And I think your name was like

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Speaker 2: first or second after my dad. So I want to

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Speaker 2: actually start off before I get you to tell everybody

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Speaker 2: what you've achieved in your momentous like career. I want

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Speaker 2: to start off with a little story about how you

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Speaker 2: and I met and then I will let you take

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Speaker 2: it from there. But from my perspective, I reached out

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Speaker 2: to you as a young race card driver in England

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Speaker 2: when you were doing a shootout for the Indie Lights

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Speaker 2: series back in the day. I think it was like

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Speaker 2: two thousand and four, and you were doing it with

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Speaker 2: Catherine Nunn, Monan's wife. You were helping her to run

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Speaker 2: a team in Indie Lights, and you wanted to find

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Speaker 2: the next female race car driver stuff. So I've read

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Speaker 2: about this in England. I read about this, and so

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Speaker 2: I reached out to Lindsay James and I said, Hi,

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Speaker 2: my name's Catherine Legg. I'm the best girl race card

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Speaker 2: driver you'll ever see ever. Can I come and be

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Speaker 2: part of your shootout please? And I got an email

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Speaker 2: back saying never heard of you, and and I said, okay,

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Speaker 2: can I come and watch then? And I bought my

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Speaker 2: helmet and I got on a plane and I showed up.

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Speaker 2: I think that was in Phoenix. Was that not in Phoenix,

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Speaker 2: That was in Texas. You're right, it was Texas. And

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Speaker 2: I met you, and I met Catherine, and I met

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Speaker 2: the team, and I did the shootout and I won

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Speaker 2: the won the event, and then unfortunately the sponsorship didn't

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Speaker 2: happen and it fell through. But that's how I got

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Speaker 2: to know about you and your program of helping young

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Speaker 2: female drivers and then I kind of became part of it,

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Speaker 2: and after that the rest is history. We became friends,

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Speaker 2: and you've obviously been somebody that I can go to

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Speaker 2: for advice and help and everything since. But i've known

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Speaker 2: you for now over twenty years.

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Speaker 3: Then absolutely, But I'm going to now tell the story

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Speaker 3: you had a couple of those weeks. They aren't quite accurate,

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Speaker 3: of course, your memory and my memory are just different,

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Speaker 3: but you had it right until.

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Speaker 2: My response was not that I know I was being funny.

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Speaker 3: My response was that Catherine is making the decisions, Catherine

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Speaker 3: Nunn and not me. And I went to Catherine and

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Speaker 3: she said no, because you're coming all the way from England.

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Speaker 3: And she, you know, I had a hard time convincing

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Speaker 3: her because she just wanted who's the best driver in

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Speaker 3: and she was just going to go with that. I said,

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Speaker 3: the best way is to do the shootout, and as

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Speaker 3: it turned out, we got a lot of publicity around

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Speaker 3: the shootout, and I said, well, i'll help you would

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Speaker 3: give you a list. You weren't on the list because

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Speaker 3: I didn't know you existed. You contacted me. I then

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Speaker 3: added that to the list, and she said no, because

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Speaker 3: you're coming over from England and what if you don't

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Speaker 3: get it? Blah blah blah. When I saw the lineup,

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Speaker 3: I contacted you. I said, you get your butt over here.

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Speaker 2: Yeah you did, and you did and you did.

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Speaker 3: You showed up. You know they are because it was

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Speaker 3: a multi day test and you showed up and you

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Speaker 3: did win. And it wasn't the sponsorship fell through. She

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Speaker 3: just pulled the plug.

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Speaker 2: Oh really, I heard that that was the money and

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Speaker 2: the money didn't come through.

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Speaker 3: Well, that may be it, but I think it was

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Speaker 3: not too long after that Boat shut his team down.

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Speaker 3: So I think you know that there was anyway. Maybe

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Speaker 3: it was sponsorship, but I was only and Catherine just

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Speaker 3: said I'm not going to do it.

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Speaker 2: So the other girl that was there, I say, girl,

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Speaker 2: she's a woman now was Sarah McCune. I often think

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Speaker 2: I wonder she was the only other one I think

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Speaker 2: that was being considered at the time. I wonder what

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Speaker 2: happened to her. Have you ever heard anything from her

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Speaker 2: to said.

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Speaker 3: No, I haven't you know. And there's so many like

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Speaker 3: that that came to my driver development program. Or it's

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Speaker 3: like Katherine Sarah mcune, and it's like I had no idea.

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Speaker 3: In most cases, I have no idea what happened to them,

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Speaker 3: but you know, I think of her because I also

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Speaker 3: think like Kaylee Bryson and some of the other gals

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Speaker 3: that are doing midgets and sprint cards. You know that

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Speaker 3: that's there was a Sarah McCune, you know, and she

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Speaker 3: was kind of a contemporary with Sarah Fisher, but Sarah

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Speaker 3: Fisher was still not on the horizon yet.

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Speaker 2: So I want to actually talk about the driver development

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Speaker 2: and like what that's changed into and what you're doing now.

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Speaker 2: But first of all, I was at Daytona this year

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Speaker 2: for when you were honored, and there were things in

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Speaker 2: that presentation that even I, being a Lindsea James fan

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Speaker 2: and a friend of yours for a number of years,

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Speaker 2: did not know. And so I wanted you to give

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Speaker 2: our listeners the same experience that I had during that

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Speaker 2: presentation in a way, and tell them all the incredible things,

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Speaker 2: starting at the beginning, how you got started in racing.

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Speaker 2: You don't have to go into great detail. You can

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Speaker 2: do the cliff note version, but I want them to

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Speaker 2: know lyns epic like you're a badass, like I had,

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Speaker 2: I only knew about fifty percent of it. Honestly, I know,

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Speaker 2: it's a tool order in a big ospit stop from

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Speaker 2: the beginning and just give us a brief but expensive

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Speaker 2: overview of everything that you achieved.

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Speaker 3: Well, it's interesting because again I think people that are

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Speaker 3: IndyCar fans, and because Indy is so big, it's like, oh,

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Speaker 3: they know what I did at Indy, right, And then

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Speaker 3: the people that are a sports car people, you know,

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Speaker 3: imps of people a sports car. The decade of the

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Speaker 3: eighties was really my ims A decade, so sometimes they

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Speaker 3: don't overlap. But it started in the seventies where just

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Speaker 3: an SCCA. So I just started as an amateur, went

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Speaker 3: to driver school, got my competition license, started out in

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Speaker 3: a Ford Pinto, moved up to a Cosworth Vega, and

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Speaker 3: all I wanted to be was the national champion. I

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Speaker 3: mean to me, I just wanted to be a national

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Speaker 3: champion in SCCA. Went to the runoffs in a Cosworth Vega,

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Speaker 3: blew an engine, had driven the car to the track,

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Speaker 3: had no backup, carn, no nothing. I didn't have a

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Speaker 3: you know, engine builder or anybody that I was dead,

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Speaker 3: you know, even though I and.

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Speaker 2: You didn't come from money either, No, no, no, no,

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Speaker 2: no exactly, so you did it clawed from the from

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Speaker 2: the ground up.

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Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, yeah yeah. And I mean we had an

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Speaker 3: auto parts business and I sold shock absorbers, and we

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Speaker 3: had another consumer electronics business, and you know, we were

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Speaker 3: just two people trying to make a living. Who became

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Speaker 3: we were both car guys. Car you know, he took

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Speaker 3: me to the DY five hundred and on my second date,

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Speaker 3: and you know, it's.

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Speaker 2: That's a good that's a good second that he did

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Speaker 2: well then, So you know.

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Speaker 3: Then I went to the twenty four hours of Daytona

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Speaker 3: as a spectator for the first time after I moved

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Speaker 3: to Florida to start the business with him, and I

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Speaker 3: had never seen sports car racing or endurance racing or

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Speaker 3: anything like that, and it totally totally I mean I

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Speaker 3: just got hooked. And I went to Seabury, became a

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Speaker 3: member of SCCA, found out you had to go to

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Speaker 3: school to get a competition license, and that's how it

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Speaker 3: all started on my own dollars. And then a couple

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Speaker 3: of things happened. I mean, I do believe someone in

239
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Speaker 3: you know, there's tipping points, there's destiny whatever you want,

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Speaker 3: and then there's you work hard to get into your destiny.

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Speaker 3: But I saw an article and Car and Driver magazine

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Speaker 3: that was about a Ford product. But there was a

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Speaker 3: sidebar article and it was entitled Ford and Feminism, and

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Speaker 3: it said how for this was in nineteen seventy eight,

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Speaker 3: and how Ford Motor Company wanted to create support and

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Speaker 3: create opportunities for women in non traditional areas within the company.

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Speaker 3: And so I figured that they needed me because I

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Speaker 3: could demonstrate that that commitment was alive out to the public,

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Speaker 3: you know. So I wrote them letters that I wrote

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Speaker 3: them letters for three years trying to get a meeting,

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Speaker 3: and I did get a meeting, but not until nineteen eighty.

252
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Speaker 3: But in nineteen seventy eight I also got a deal.

253
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Speaker 3: I was contacted the only time I've been contacted by

254
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Speaker 3: a team owner or a car owner when wrote Atlanta

255
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Speaker 3: was bought by the Whittingtons. I mean, this is kind

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Speaker 3: of good trivia stuff.

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Speaker 2: This is this is stuff I didn't know either. Yeah,

258
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Speaker 2: I'm learning.

259
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Speaker 3: Where was a deal when they bought that track? There

260
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Speaker 3: was this old Plymouth Malare in one of the garages

261
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Speaker 3: or shops, and this guy in Oklahoma, brand dole knew

262
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Speaker 3: about it. He bought the car. He contacted MS, talked

263
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Speaker 3: to John Bishop and asked if there's a woman driver,

264
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Speaker 3: because Kelly's Services had just decided to sponsor a new

265
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Speaker 3: series called The Kelly American Challenge and John Bishop. I

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Speaker 3: was told this by John Bishop, gave him my name,

267
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Speaker 3: gave him my number and said she's the best one.

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Speaker 3: She drives like a man, and he cons a compliment,

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Speaker 3: and it was meant to be a compliment really, So

270
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Speaker 3: I raised that season. It cost three thousand dollars. I

271
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Speaker 3: had to buy the ride for three thousand dollars, so

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Speaker 3: I had to borrow. My husband wouldn't give it to me.

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Speaker 3: I had to borrow three thousand dollars from a friend.

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Speaker 3: And then because I finished second seventy nine hundreds of

275
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Speaker 3: a second behind Jane Felton and was the top female driver,

276
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Speaker 3: I won like thirty five hundred dollars, so I could

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Speaker 3: pay this thought thousand of dollars back to the guy

278
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Speaker 3: that and I had a whole lot at five hundred dollars.

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Speaker 2: So you didn't share it with your husband, saying he

280
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Speaker 2: was too tired.

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Speaker 3: I's pretty mad at him at that point. So I

282
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Speaker 3: ran that whole season on that same kind of a deal.

283
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Speaker 3: Then they had a bonus prize money at the end

284
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Speaker 3: of the year, he got all that, the owner got

285
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Speaker 3: all the prize money, and I was so excited that

286
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Speaker 3: maybe the next year I would be able to go

287
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Speaker 3: for the whole championships overall. And that's what he told me.

288
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Speaker 3: I mean, I'm going to tell you this. You know

289
00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:30,880
Speaker 3: what he told me. I'm gonna forget this. It was

290
00:14:30,920 --> 00:14:34,200
Speaker 3: the finale that the finale used to be an at Daytona,

291
00:14:34,680 --> 00:14:37,720
Speaker 3: like around Thanksgiving weekend. So I'm having a meeting with

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Speaker 3: this car owner and I'm excited because I was in

293
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Speaker 3: People magazine. I could go into that because I raced

294
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Speaker 3: over at the derber Ring and had won the race

295
00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:48,080
Speaker 3: and he was in the picture, and so I figured,

296
00:14:48,160 --> 00:14:51,160
Speaker 3: I made this guy a hero, right, And I am

297
00:14:51,200 --> 00:14:54,240
Speaker 3: sitting with him ready to have a meeting to negotiate

298
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Speaker 3: the fact that I'm going to run the next season.

299
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Speaker 3: And he said, I'm not running next year. I said,

300
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Speaker 3: what do you mean, You're not running next year? My

301
00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:05,280
Speaker 3: wife thinks we're having an affair. Oh Jesus, And that's

302
00:15:05,320 --> 00:15:08,600
Speaker 3: what he told me. I looked at him like, you

303
00:15:08,680 --> 00:15:11,440
Speaker 3: have got to be kidding me. And so I had

304
00:15:11,440 --> 00:15:13,480
Speaker 3: no deal the next year. So that's what I and

305
00:15:13,560 --> 00:15:16,200
Speaker 3: I was already talking to Ford, and I finally got

306
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Speaker 3: a meeting with Ford, and I ran races. I ran

307
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Speaker 3: one Offs, I ran seaver Ring, I ran Daytona. I

308
00:15:21,880 --> 00:15:24,520
Speaker 3: ran in an acid Martin Nimrod. I mean, I just

309
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Speaker 3: did whatever I could do to get in a race car.

310
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Speaker 3: I mean, I remember showing up relate to the test

311
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Speaker 3: in the first of the year at Daytona, which is

312
00:15:32,240 --> 00:15:35,200
Speaker 3: now called the Roar. It used to just be an

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Speaker 3: open test. I would showed up because I lived in Florida.

314
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Speaker 3: I'd show up my helmet and suit and everything. And

315
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Speaker 3: Jim Bell was at the party that you're talking about

316
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Speaker 3: on October thirtieth. I invited him because he was there

317
00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:51,440
Speaker 3: running the Whittingtons in a nine to thirty five and

318
00:15:51,480 --> 00:15:54,680
Speaker 3: they were testing before the twenty four. And I walked

319
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Speaker 3: up to him and introduced myself and I said, you know,

320
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Speaker 3: I'm really looking for a ride. I don't know what

321
00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:03,760
Speaker 3: the hell I said. Jim came up to me maybe

322
00:16:03,760 --> 00:16:06,040
Speaker 3: two or three hours later, and he said, hey, you

323
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Speaker 3: bring your gear. I said, I sure did. He said, oh,

324
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Speaker 3: Bill Whittington wants to borrow it. I was like, I mean,

325
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Speaker 3: my face went from being excited to them being and

326
00:16:17,040 --> 00:16:19,040
Speaker 3: then he looked at me and he laughed and he said,

327
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Speaker 3: I'm only kidding. Gear up, Bill Don Whittington is going

328
00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:23,960
Speaker 3: to leave, and he said, you could serve some laps.

329
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Speaker 3: I got to turn it lapse at a nine thirty

330
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Speaker 3: five at that test.

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Speaker 2: That's cool.

332
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Speaker 3: And I remember when I sat in that car. I

333
00:16:31,320 --> 00:16:33,600
Speaker 3: mean I had the most powerful thing I'd ever raced

334
00:16:33,680 --> 00:16:36,240
Speaker 3: was a Corvette and I sat in this nine thirty

335
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Speaker 3: five and I just remember two things. One I sat

336
00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:40,960
Speaker 3: there after I got all hit, you know, I got

337
00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:42,840
Speaker 3: all suited up. I'm sitting in the car and now

338
00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:46,600
Speaker 3: I'm not moving. Jim puts the door down, closes the door,

339
00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:49,720
Speaker 3: and I'm looking for the starter button and he opens

340
00:16:49,760 --> 00:16:51,360
Speaker 3: the door and he goes, what are you waiting for?

341
00:16:51,520 --> 00:16:54,040
Speaker 3: I said, I don't know how to start it. He said,

342
00:16:54,920 --> 00:16:58,840
Speaker 3: turn the key. Porsches have it the key? Yeah, like

343
00:16:59,640 --> 00:17:02,400
Speaker 3: rather a starter button because it was basically a street

344
00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:03,840
Speaker 3: car that they turned into a race car that I

345
00:17:03,840 --> 00:17:06,080
Speaker 3: think nine thirty five. And then he looked at me

346
00:17:06,119 --> 00:17:07,560
Speaker 3: and he said, I'm gonna just give you one piece

347
00:17:07,600 --> 00:17:09,920
Speaker 3: of advice. Either you drive it or it's going to

348
00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:14,199
Speaker 3: drive you. Good advice because that turbo comes on and

349
00:17:14,240 --> 00:17:16,240
Speaker 3: you've got so much power and you don't feel it

350
00:17:16,320 --> 00:17:19,960
Speaker 3: until it comes on. Because of that ride, I got

351
00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:22,800
Speaker 3: to race a nine thirty five at the Twelve Hours

352
00:17:22,800 --> 00:17:27,320
Speaker 3: of Seabrey that year. So I mean you just scrape

353
00:17:27,440 --> 00:17:29,680
Speaker 3: and dig I said, you always be at the track,

354
00:17:30,080 --> 00:17:33,159
Speaker 3: Always have your gear, Always talk to people. Always let

355
00:17:33,240 --> 00:17:36,280
Speaker 3: people know who you are, what you've done, and how

356
00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:37,439
Speaker 3: how much you want to do it.

357
00:17:37,520 --> 00:17:40,600
Speaker 2: You know, show them you're just why am I still

358
00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:41,360
Speaker 2: doing that then?

359
00:17:43,720 --> 00:17:47,200
Speaker 3: Because you have Catherine? I mean, I think unless you've

360
00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:49,919
Speaker 3: got an agent or somebody that's out there doing it

361
00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:52,120
Speaker 3: for you. And there's a couple of the galps today

362
00:17:52,160 --> 00:17:54,080
Speaker 3: I know that do that. I mean they have somebody

363
00:17:54,119 --> 00:17:59,040
Speaker 3: representing them, and that representative hopefully has a good relationship

364
00:17:59,040 --> 00:18:02,399
Speaker 3: and a good reputation and talks to the ker chiefs

365
00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:06,400
Speaker 3: or team managers and so I didn't have that back then.

366
00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:09,920
Speaker 3: But the reality is, there are so many more race

367
00:18:09,920 --> 00:18:13,120
Speaker 3: car drivers than there are seats available. I don't care

368
00:18:13,119 --> 00:18:16,000
Speaker 3: what series you're telling about, And the higher up you go,

369
00:18:17,119 --> 00:18:19,800
Speaker 3: the harder that is, the more drivers there are those

370
00:18:20,119 --> 00:18:23,600
Speaker 3: than they're exactly, So somebody's got to be speaking up there.

371
00:18:23,680 --> 00:18:26,040
Speaker 3: Letting them know what you can do. So I spent

372
00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:28,760
Speaker 3: the decade of the eighties racing for Ford. I wanted

373
00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:31,120
Speaker 3: to share some of those only because I just didn't

374
00:18:31,119 --> 00:18:32,720
Speaker 3: even think about it. They just came out of how

375
00:18:32,760 --> 00:18:36,919
Speaker 3: they happened. And you know Ford, I bugged them for

376
00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:39,520
Speaker 3: three years for sponsorship. I finally got it. I ran

377
00:18:39,560 --> 00:18:42,240
Speaker 3: the Kelly Series and then I raced whatever Ford told

378
00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:44,159
Speaker 3: me to race. I mean, the good news is I

379
00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:47,199
Speaker 3: got in the door. I had to. I negotiated my

380
00:18:47,240 --> 00:18:50,720
Speaker 3: own deals. I had one year contracts, but I always

381
00:18:50,760 --> 00:18:53,040
Speaker 3: wanted to do the endurance races, and sometimes that didn't

382
00:18:53,040 --> 00:18:55,520
Speaker 3: include the endurance races. You know, so I just I

383
00:18:55,600 --> 00:18:58,040
Speaker 3: just I just raced whatever the hell I could race.

384
00:18:58,440 --> 00:19:01,280
Speaker 3: I mean, it really was. They had me drive an

385
00:19:01,280 --> 00:19:01,920
Speaker 3: off road.

386
00:19:01,720 --> 00:19:04,879
Speaker 2: Pickup truck, and they at least pay you good money.

387
00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:09,120
Speaker 3: Well, they didn't pay me. The only time I got

388
00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:12,280
Speaker 3: money when I ran my own car the first year.

389
00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:16,360
Speaker 3: What I realized was that a I'm not a good

390
00:19:16,359 --> 00:19:18,480
Speaker 3: team owner or team manager. I can't do this. I

391
00:19:18,480 --> 00:19:23,920
Speaker 3: can't wear both hats. So I went back and renegotiated

392
00:19:24,040 --> 00:19:27,720
Speaker 3: during that year for a personal service contract. So I

393
00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:31,280
Speaker 3: had a racing contract and I had a personal service contract.

394
00:19:31,680 --> 00:19:35,880
Speaker 3: Smartly any the racing contract, that money went to the team.

395
00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:40,359
Speaker 3: I didn't get any right, yeah, the personal service contract,

396
00:19:40,359 --> 00:19:45,000
Speaker 3: and I went from making I had to guarantee fifty

397
00:19:45,200 --> 00:19:49,160
Speaker 3: appearances a year, which is a lot. Besides that's a lot,

398
00:19:50,080 --> 00:19:52,120
Speaker 3: but I needed to make some money, you know, even

399
00:19:52,160 --> 00:19:54,480
Speaker 3: though I had my own horse business, and whatever money

400
00:19:54,520 --> 00:19:56,720
Speaker 3: I was making, I was also using it to get

401
00:19:56,760 --> 00:19:57,560
Speaker 3: these other rides.

402
00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:02,680
Speaker 2: Ford was get yourself there and accommodation and everything else.

403
00:20:02,720 --> 00:20:05,159
Speaker 3: I'm guessing, yeah, yeah, And I'm very proud of the

404
00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:08,320
Speaker 3: fact that how much I was making for the first

405
00:20:08,320 --> 00:20:11,320
Speaker 3: couple of years per a day for appearance based on

406
00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:14,679
Speaker 3: because I had fifteen years of one year contracts and

407
00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:17,000
Speaker 3: every year I've negotiated.

408
00:20:16,480 --> 00:20:18,280
Speaker 2: And made a little bit more money.

409
00:20:18,359 --> 00:20:20,760
Speaker 3: I was building value, you know, because of I mean

410
00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:23,080
Speaker 3: it was a win win. They were winning because of

411
00:20:23,119 --> 00:20:25,520
Speaker 3: the success I was having on the racetrack. I was

412
00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:27,800
Speaker 3: winning because of the success I was having, and because

413
00:20:27,840 --> 00:20:30,200
Speaker 3: I was involved with Ford Butter Company, and I was

414
00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:32,560
Speaker 3: actually starting to make a little more money. And so

415
00:20:32,880 --> 00:20:35,120
Speaker 3: you know, all of the pieces kind of went up.

416
00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:39,000
Speaker 3: The records at Talladega that I did. I convinced Ford

417
00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:41,840
Speaker 3: that we needed to do that. I pitched Ford to

418
00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:44,680
Speaker 3: do that the first time. It was in the Ford Probe,

419
00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:47,679
Speaker 3: because I wanted to race the Ford Probe and I

420
00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:52,159
Speaker 3: was racing the Mustangs, and the head of Ford Racing

421
00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:56,240
Speaker 3: was this German by the name of Michael Crnifice who

422
00:20:56,520 --> 00:20:59,199
Speaker 3: a didn't want me on the team but had to

423
00:20:59,240 --> 00:21:02,720
Speaker 3: because of the Ford's sponsorship. I came with the Ford sponsorship.

424
00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:06,280
Speaker 3: B didn't think that I, I mean, he didn't want

425
00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:07,720
Speaker 3: a woman on the team, and he didn't think I

426
00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:10,159
Speaker 3: was good enough. And I wanted to drive the big car.

427
00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:11,760
Speaker 3: I wanted to drive the big car. I wanted to

428
00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:15,760
Speaker 3: drive the Ford Probe. So I thought, well, if I

429
00:21:15,760 --> 00:21:18,200
Speaker 3: can take that car around Talladega and go at two

430
00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:20,240
Speaker 3: hundred and twenty or two and thirty miles an hour,

431
00:21:20,880 --> 00:21:22,840
Speaker 3: then I'm going to convince him that I can drive

432
00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:26,919
Speaker 3: that race car. And so I did. I didn't go

433
00:21:26,960 --> 00:21:29,159
Speaker 3: that fast on and went to a four. But and

434
00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:32,199
Speaker 3: the next season I got to race the Probe, and

435
00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:35,240
Speaker 3: then I saw Ford was directing more and more towards

436
00:21:35,280 --> 00:21:39,239
Speaker 3: a NASCAR so I decided maybe I should try to

437
00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:43,760
Speaker 3: convince them that I should go NASCAR. Racing, because what's

438
00:21:43,800 --> 00:21:47,040
Speaker 3: different between a NASCAR and a big Ford Bustang gt

439
00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:48,320
Speaker 3: O car, you know?

440
00:21:48,440 --> 00:21:50,639
Speaker 2: So I didn't know.

441
00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:56,480
Speaker 3: I learned. So I convinced them to take the Ford Thunderbird,

442
00:21:57,040 --> 00:21:59,200
Speaker 3: which was a brand new supercoop body that they were

443
00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:02,679
Speaker 3: coming out for the for their production car. And I

444
00:22:02,760 --> 00:22:05,520
Speaker 3: went to Talladega to break the records that I'd already

445
00:22:05,680 --> 00:22:07,760
Speaker 3: set and break my own records and a bunch of more.

446
00:22:07,800 --> 00:22:10,600
Speaker 3: I convinced Bill Elliott and his team to build the

447
00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:15,679
Speaker 3: car and we went and successfully went to twelve average speed.

448
00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:21,159
Speaker 3: But Catherine, I hated that car. Why hated it? It

449
00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:21,760
Speaker 3: was numb.

450
00:22:22,359 --> 00:22:23,840
Speaker 2: Oh didn't get any feedback.

451
00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:26,080
Speaker 3: This is in nineteen eighty eight, so they were a

452
00:22:26,119 --> 00:22:28,560
Speaker 3: lot different than they are now. I turned the wheel

453
00:22:28,560 --> 00:22:31,359
Speaker 3: and nothing happens, And I mean it was numb. It

454
00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:33,600
Speaker 3: is the best way I could put it. And I

455
00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:37,879
Speaker 3: spent two days and I couldn't wait till it was over.

456
00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:40,720
Speaker 3: Three weeks later, I got an opportunity to drive an

457
00:22:40,760 --> 00:22:44,560
Speaker 3: IndyCar for the first time, and I made up my

458
00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:46,840
Speaker 3: mind in October of nineteen eighty eight, if I'm going

459
00:22:46,880 --> 00:22:48,879
Speaker 3: to climb this mountain, it's going to be that mountain

460
00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:50,879
Speaker 3: and not trying to get into stock cars.

461
00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:53,520
Speaker 2: Not a numb race car either, Like at least you

462
00:22:53,560 --> 00:22:54,640
Speaker 2: get feedback from that one.

463
00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:57,199
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, you know. I mean lots of feedback obviously.

464
00:22:57,280 --> 00:22:59,399
Speaker 3: I mean the first time, the first time in the

465
00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:01,520
Speaker 3: IndyCar is it Memphis? It was, which is a drag

466
00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:03,879
Speaker 3: strip that they do a lot of testing. At the

467
00:23:03,960 --> 00:23:06,199
Speaker 3: very first lab. I go around and I come down

468
00:23:06,240 --> 00:23:07,840
Speaker 3: the front straight away, and I thought, okay, I go

469
00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:09,840
Speaker 3: really fast down the front straight away because I you know,

470
00:23:10,640 --> 00:23:11,960
Speaker 3: And then I put my foot on the brake to

471
00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:14,160
Speaker 3: go through turn one, and I'm not used to having

472
00:23:14,160 --> 00:23:18,080
Speaker 3: brakes that work like that. The car literally stopped on

473
00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:20,960
Speaker 3: the racetrack. I had to put it in first scare

474
00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:22,119
Speaker 3: to drive down to the corner.

475
00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:25,760
Speaker 2: Was like, oh my god, So you'd never driven anything

476
00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:27,240
Speaker 2: with downforce before that moment.

477
00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:32,760
Speaker 3: I driven an open wheel car twice before. I raced

478
00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:36,639
Speaker 3: in the June Sprints in a Formula Ford in like

479
00:23:36,760 --> 00:23:41,400
Speaker 3: nineteen eighty two, and I had raced here at Phoenix

480
00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:43,359
Speaker 3: in a like what would be equal to a Formula

481
00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:46,520
Speaker 3: Atlantic car in a in a support race when they

482
00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:50,119
Speaker 3: had the Formula One race downtown Phoenix. Those are the

483
00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:52,320
Speaker 3: only two times i'd ever been in an open wheel car?

484
00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:54,679
Speaker 2: Wow, did you want to do Formula One? If you

485
00:23:54,680 --> 00:23:56,840
Speaker 2: were in the support? Did do you ever have the never?

486
00:23:57,280 --> 00:23:59,560
Speaker 3: No? You know they used to because Jackie Stewart was

487
00:23:59,600 --> 00:24:03,119
Speaker 3: also a Ford spokesperson, so they would you know, always

488
00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:05,159
Speaker 3: hit and Ford for a while actually owned a Formula

489
00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:07,080
Speaker 3: One team. And I mean I looked at that and

490
00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:09,560
Speaker 3: what that's way over my I mean, that's so complicated,

491
00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:13,000
Speaker 3: and now it's even more complicated. And I also knew,

492
00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:17,480
Speaker 3: you know, all my goals were doable for me. Everything

493
00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:19,560
Speaker 3: I did that I set as a goal, I thought,

494
00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:21,879
Speaker 3: it's because I know I can do it, and I

495
00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:25,360
Speaker 3: think I can convince others. Formula one, I knew there

496
00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:27,720
Speaker 3: was no way. Well, I try to chase something that

497
00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:29,320
Speaker 3: you just know there's absolutely no way.

498
00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:33,720
Speaker 2: Yeah, it has to be achievable. I think though, had

499
00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:36,280
Speaker 2: you found racing as a kid and done go cutting

500
00:24:36,640 --> 00:24:38,480
Speaker 2: and done everything like that, I think it would have

501
00:24:38,520 --> 00:24:41,440
Speaker 2: been achievable. It was just the circumstance that you came

502
00:24:41,480 --> 00:24:45,080
Speaker 2: into it. But I mean, what a career. It reminds

503
00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:46,720
Speaker 2: me a little bit of mine in a way in

504
00:24:46,760 --> 00:24:50,800
Speaker 2: that you raced anything and everything that you got the

505
00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:54,520
Speaker 2: opportunity to race, and if you look at the long list,

506
00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:56,359
Speaker 2: like I did when we were at that thing at

507
00:24:56,440 --> 00:25:01,200
Speaker 2: Daytona in the museum there, it was so cool, honestly,

508
00:25:01,280 --> 00:25:03,320
Speaker 2: Like it still gives me goosebumps to think about that,

509
00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:07,280
Speaker 2: because like when you see how much you jumped around

510
00:25:07,280 --> 00:25:10,600
Speaker 2: from different cars and what you achieved, and like just

511
00:25:10,680 --> 00:25:15,720
Speaker 2: the tenacity and the and the grit and everything. I mean,

512
00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:19,400
Speaker 2: it's honestly it's inspirational because you don't really meet many

513
00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:24,199
Speaker 2: people like us, right, Like it's I think we're definitely

514
00:25:24,200 --> 00:25:26,520
Speaker 2: a different breed and for me to be able to

515
00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:29,880
Speaker 2: see it and you, it gives me some power back too,

516
00:25:30,119 --> 00:25:33,120
Speaker 2: you know, like it's it's been. It's been a wild ride,

517
00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:35,600
Speaker 2: and I know that we did things very differently in

518
00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:39,440
Speaker 2: a way, but it's really neat to see that there

519
00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:41,120
Speaker 2: are so many different parallels too.

520
00:25:41,840 --> 00:25:44,240
Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean I think I've told people, I mean, a,

521
00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:46,800
Speaker 3: you have more natural talent than I do. I mean,

522
00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:51,080
Speaker 3: I absolutely watching the way you stepped in that test,

523
00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:55,160
Speaker 3: you know that would have been indie lights and see

524
00:25:55,240 --> 00:25:56,960
Speaker 3: you and see you run. I've watched you a lot

525
00:25:57,040 --> 00:25:59,199
Speaker 3: run in in sports cars in Daytona and all that

526
00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:02,520
Speaker 3: and I just you have a lot of natural ability

527
00:26:03,640 --> 00:26:06,160
Speaker 3: and you're willing to work hard. I mean, that's that's

528
00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:07,760
Speaker 3: a lot of times people that have a lot of

529
00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:10,080
Speaker 3: natural ability are lazy. You know that it comes easy

530
00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:13,240
Speaker 3: to them and they don't work very hard. So and

531
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:15,919
Speaker 3: you know, the passion that you have, I feel we

532
00:26:16,000 --> 00:26:19,760
Speaker 3: have that very much in common. And also just the

533
00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:22,560
Speaker 3: stick to itiveness, not to be not to give up,

534
00:26:22,760 --> 00:26:26,359
Speaker 3: you know, doesn't mean we don't get disappointed or discouraged

535
00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:28,120
Speaker 3: or you know, there's times I've been, oh my god,

536
00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:31,280
Speaker 3: there's so many times that I've either wanted to kill

537
00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:34,480
Speaker 3: somebody or or quit, you know, because I figured there's

538
00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:37,520
Speaker 3: no way. But I never that didn't stay around for

539
00:26:37,600 --> 00:26:39,359
Speaker 3: very long, and you know I wouldn't be I just

540
00:26:39,440 --> 00:26:40,679
Speaker 3: nobody was going to deny me.

541
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:42,920
Speaker 2: I feel like I said a blund But what would

542
00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:44,480
Speaker 2: you do if you did, if you weren't racing.

543
00:26:44,720 --> 00:26:46,560
Speaker 3: You know, it's funny. I met Burkup and I don't

544
00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:48,760
Speaker 3: know how to pronounce your last thing, but she's from

545
00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:51,200
Speaker 3: Turkey and she's the new head of the FA Woman

546
00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:54,240
Speaker 3: and Motorsports Commission. Lovely lady. She came over for our

547
00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:59,960
Speaker 3: summit in Indianapolis and December, and she's she's probably inter four,

548
00:27:00,359 --> 00:27:03,679
Speaker 3: I think, you know, I mean, yeah, she does, but

549
00:27:03,720 --> 00:27:05,960
Speaker 3: she's not like really young, you know what I mean,

550
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:07,760
Speaker 3: She's not just twenty or thirty years old or whatever.

551
00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:10,760
Speaker 3: But so we kind of related in a different way.

552
00:27:10,560 --> 00:27:12,880
Speaker 3: But I remember her saying, so what do you do?

553
00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:16,600
Speaker 3: What do you mean? What do I do? Like, well,

554
00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:20,639
Speaker 3: what do you do for fun? I'm like, I don't

555
00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:24,359
Speaker 3: have any nothing. I mean, I paint, I tried to paint,

556
00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:27,560
Speaker 3: so I have painted a little bit. But I look

557
00:27:27,640 --> 00:27:30,320
Speaker 3: for other opportunities. I mean, at that time, I was

558
00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:32,199
Speaker 3: still vintage racing. I mean I was, you know, I

559
00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:34,439
Speaker 3: was planning to continue vintage racing until I had that

560
00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:37,520
Speaker 3: back crash in nineteen. So or I'm at the races,

561
00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:41,520
Speaker 3: staying current, learning, I'm reading about it, I'm going to race,

562
00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:43,760
Speaker 3: and still I go to races because that's the only

563
00:27:43,800 --> 00:27:46,000
Speaker 3: way I can stay current, and I and the and

564
00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:47,919
Speaker 3: the fact that there are so many more young gals

565
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:50,200
Speaker 3: racing now. I want to be able to watch them

566
00:27:50,280 --> 00:27:52,919
Speaker 3: race because if I don't see them race, and I

567
00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:56,920
Speaker 3: don't have this opportunity to see them, like this, anything

568
00:27:56,960 --> 00:27:58,520
Speaker 3: I read is almost irrelevant.

569
00:27:58,800 --> 00:27:59,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's not accurate.

570
00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:02,480
Speaker 3: I've got to feel that energy, I have to see

571
00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:04,320
Speaker 3: that passion, and I have to see some damn talent

572
00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:08,880
Speaker 3: in the car. So I am an observer or participant,

573
00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:11,280
Speaker 3: a fan, and I try to continue to be an

574
00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:13,840
Speaker 3: expert and to be able to be a mentor. To

575
00:28:13,880 --> 00:28:15,359
Speaker 3: do that, you have to stay current.

576
00:28:32,040 --> 00:28:34,359
Speaker 2: Do you like cause as much as you like racing

577
00:28:34,440 --> 00:28:36,440
Speaker 2: or is it more of racing, because I remember seeing

578
00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:39,280
Speaker 2: something with Anika that said she was like, I have

579
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:42,920
Speaker 2: no interesting cars really at all. I just love racing

580
00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:46,120
Speaker 2: as a sport, and I feel like I can relate

581
00:28:46,120 --> 00:28:48,440
Speaker 2: to I love cars too, but not to the extent

582
00:28:48,480 --> 00:28:50,840
Speaker 2: that I love racing. I think it's the sport that

583
00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:52,880
Speaker 2: I fell in love with rather than the cars.

584
00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:55,760
Speaker 3: I'm kind of curious about cars, and I know what

585
00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:57,400
Speaker 3: I like and what I don't like. That I'm not

586
00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:00,800
Speaker 3: a car nut. The other thing is it isn't even

587
00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:05,600
Speaker 3: just the racing. It's the driving something at the limit,

588
00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:09,360
Speaker 3: finding the limit, and then being able to do it.

589
00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:12,560
Speaker 3: I like testing more than I like racing. The only

590
00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:14,680
Speaker 3: reason why the racing's fun is because that's what you're

591
00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:16,920
Speaker 3: really You're pitted against you know where the hell you stand.

592
00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:20,000
Speaker 3: But testing you also know where you stand. You know

593
00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:21,959
Speaker 3: what a good time is there, you know, you know,

594
00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:25,520
Speaker 3: But I love the testing because I love trying to

595
00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:29,520
Speaker 3: find that perfect flap, that perfect corner, you know, every time.

596
00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:34,880
Speaker 3: I mean, that's what excites me is that, Yeah, the sound,

597
00:29:35,000 --> 00:29:37,880
Speaker 3: the smell being at the track and then looking for

598
00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:41,320
Speaker 3: that apex for every corner and feeling the car and

599
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:44,800
Speaker 3: feeling how it changes, you know, how the tires change

600
00:29:44,880 --> 00:29:47,640
Speaker 3: and how the weight balance changes. And it's like when

601
00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:50,160
Speaker 3: I drove that Indy car at Memphis, I was so pleased.

602
00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:52,640
Speaker 3: Dick said to the guy that was working on the car,

603
00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:56,480
Speaker 3: put ten gallons of fuel, bring her in, Let her

604
00:29:56,560 --> 00:29:59,320
Speaker 3: do ten laps, ten gallons of He wanted to keep

605
00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:02,080
Speaker 3: that the weight of the car balanced and the same

606
00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:05,160
Speaker 3: almost for the entire time because those weight changes really

607
00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:07,640
Speaker 3: make a difference, you know. So I just because I

608
00:30:07,640 --> 00:30:09,200
Speaker 3: didn't know what the hell I was doing at that point.

609
00:30:09,240 --> 00:30:13,840
Speaker 3: So anyway, I love the driving the race car. I'm

610
00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:17,200
Speaker 3: a good time. I'm a real good test driver because

611
00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:20,520
Speaker 3: I was told that by some tire engineers because if

612
00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:22,440
Speaker 3: they want, if they're going to change tires, they don't

613
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:24,280
Speaker 3: want you to adapt. They want you to still drive

614
00:30:24,320 --> 00:30:24,920
Speaker 3: the way you got.

615
00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:27,880
Speaker 2: And it's not that easy to get the perfect that, like,

616
00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:31,040
Speaker 2: you can chase the perfect lab forever and ever because

617
00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:34,240
Speaker 2: the conditions are always changing and the tires are always changing,

618
00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:36,640
Speaker 2: you're always changing its cars getting lighter when it blends

619
00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:40,320
Speaker 2: off fuel. And so yeah, I don't think that anybody

620
00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:45,240
Speaker 2: anywhere ever has ever got the perfect lab. And you

621
00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:49,160
Speaker 2: know what, you see the self driving cars these days

622
00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:50,960
Speaker 2: that are supposed to be able to be programmed to

623
00:30:51,000 --> 00:30:53,720
Speaker 2: do like the edge of the grip if you like.

624
00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:56,160
Speaker 2: I think maybe one day that will take over from us.

625
00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:58,920
Speaker 2: But I think that that's what makes us more interesting.

626
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:00,959
Speaker 2: Like I have something that can go at the ultimate

627
00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:03,400
Speaker 2: limit without making mistakes. It's the mistakes and it's the

628
00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:05,560
Speaker 2: learning and everything that makes it interesting. But I love

629
00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:08,280
Speaker 2: the competition to you like the competition with yourself as

630
00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:11,200
Speaker 2: much as with everybody else, right because mentally you're competing

631
00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:13,360
Speaker 2: with yourself to be as good as you can be

632
00:31:14,240 --> 00:31:16,840
Speaker 2: and then yeah, no hitting those marks, making as few

633
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:20,120
Speaker 2: mistakes as possible, driving on the limit, all of it.

634
00:31:20,200 --> 00:31:23,280
Speaker 2: But yeah, I love it too, and it's a passion

635
00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:25,880
Speaker 2: and I don't know what I will do when I

636
00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:27,880
Speaker 2: stop racing because I love it so much, but I

637
00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:30,200
Speaker 2: almost think that I want to follow in your footsteps

638
00:31:30,560 --> 00:31:33,760
Speaker 2: and help other young female drivers too. So I'm just

639
00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:35,800
Speaker 2: following you all the way up through. I'm just being

640
00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:37,600
Speaker 2: a meanie, a mini you.

641
00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:39,480
Speaker 3: I've heard you're rid of here from Predix. Yeah, you

642
00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:41,200
Speaker 3: were saying that. So I mean, if you ever want

643
00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:44,720
Speaker 3: to brainstarve about that, my dear, I'm happy to do that. Yeah,

644
00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:47,800
Speaker 3: I mean, I think your passion kid, carry on past

645
00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:49,480
Speaker 3: your time in the race car.

646
00:31:49,800 --> 00:31:52,560
Speaker 2: Explain to us how you started your program, because I

647
00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:55,480
Speaker 2: didn't go through it in its entirety, I was lucky

648
00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:59,320
Speaker 2: enough to be part of it at times. But explain

649
00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:02,640
Speaker 2: why you started it, Explain what it was and some

650
00:32:02,720 --> 00:32:04,560
Speaker 2: of the people who came through it. For those of

651
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:05,720
Speaker 2: us listening.

652
00:32:05,600 --> 00:32:08,600
Speaker 3: Well, I started in the nineteen ninety four, so two

653
00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:10,720
Speaker 3: years after I did INDY, but I was still doing Indy.

654
00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:14,280
Speaker 2: Okay, you were still driving at the time you started it. Yeah,

655
00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:16,880
Speaker 2: that's interesting because I was thinking to myself, I'll wait

656
00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:19,800
Speaker 2: until the transition point so i can focus, because I've

657
00:32:19,840 --> 00:32:22,320
Speaker 2: got like OCD where I want to put everything in

658
00:32:22,360 --> 00:32:25,280
Speaker 2: its neat and tidy box. But you were doing both

659
00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:28,360
Speaker 2: at the same time, which is crazy and awesome.

660
00:32:28,680 --> 00:32:32,600
Speaker 3: But remember I was doing Indy only, so I mean

661
00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:35,640
Speaker 3: I only did I did fifteen IndyCar races over nine years.

662
00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:38,800
Speaker 3: The only year I had more than Indy was ninety

663
00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:41,840
Speaker 3: three and I had six races, Okay, So when I

664
00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:45,160
Speaker 3: was back to just one, I mean, to be honest,

665
00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:47,160
Speaker 3: I had to put it this way. It was like, oh,

666
00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:48,680
Speaker 3: I'm going to do the rest of the year. I

667
00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:51,160
Speaker 3: wanted to do more, and I was trying to get

668
00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:53,960
Speaker 3: sponsors to do more, but ultimately, you know, I only

669
00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:57,200
Speaker 3: had an indie only program, and you know, after hanging

670
00:32:57,200 --> 00:32:59,120
Speaker 3: out with Billy Jim King for those years that I

671
00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:01,840
Speaker 3: went to the Women's Sports Foundation, I realized I have

672
00:33:01,920 --> 00:33:04,440
Speaker 3: to find a way to give back, a way to

673
00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:07,440
Speaker 3: make a difference. And then I got so much fan mail.

674
00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:10,680
Speaker 3: A lot of them were young drivers wanting advice. I'm like,

675
00:33:10,880 --> 00:33:12,440
Speaker 3: I don't know who these people are. I don't know

676
00:33:12,480 --> 00:33:15,120
Speaker 3: if they're any good. And I was also being interviewed

677
00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:19,120
Speaker 3: a lot saying that there were more coming and they're like, well,

678
00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:21,680
Speaker 3: then where are they. I'm like, I don't know. I

679
00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:27,800
Speaker 3: got to find them. So my deal was an invitation only,

680
00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:33,120
Speaker 3: and I literally would I would scour National speed Sport

681
00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:37,040
Speaker 3: news every week and look at all the race results

682
00:33:37,800 --> 00:33:40,880
Speaker 3: and look for stories about a woman driver looking for

683
00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:42,960
Speaker 3: you know, and I only had usually the first initial

684
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:44,560
Speaker 3: in the last names, you know. I mean, it was

685
00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:47,440
Speaker 3: really hard sometimes. And this was before we had the

686
00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:49,600
Speaker 3: Internet and you know, Google and all of that. But

687
00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:53,520
Speaker 3: I literally would and I started contacting sanctioning bodies asking

688
00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:55,880
Speaker 3: for who do you know? Is there anybody any good

689
00:33:55,880 --> 00:33:59,000
Speaker 3: that's running at your track? So I created a program

690
00:33:59,360 --> 00:34:01,320
Speaker 3: once a year. I would only do it once a year.

691
00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:04,040
Speaker 3: I would max out at twenty people because I could

692
00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:06,200
Speaker 3: never remember more than twenty names over the course of

693
00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:09,360
Speaker 3: a weekend. I don't want to keep looking at name tags.

694
00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:09,839
Speaker 2: Yeah.

695
00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:14,840
Speaker 3: And I had a vision, Catherine, of everything that it

696
00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:18,000
Speaker 3: took me so long to learn, and I thought, if

697
00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:22,560
Speaker 3: I can compress the learning time that these gals that

698
00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:26,160
Speaker 3: are out there racing and give them the tools that

699
00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:28,560
Speaker 3: in my mind they were like, go now they should go,

700
00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:31,760
Speaker 3: because now they shouldn't be held back by these things

701
00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:33,200
Speaker 3: that we don't know, because you don't know what you

702
00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:37,239
Speaker 3: don't know, you know, doctor Jacques Dhlaire, Because I'd gone,

703
00:34:37,440 --> 00:34:39,680
Speaker 3: you know, with them, I'd worked with them, since nineteen

704
00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:42,320
Speaker 3: eighty eight, and truly was it.

705
00:34:42,360 --> 00:34:44,480
Speaker 2: By the way, Yes, I saw him at Seabring. I

706
00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:46,000
Speaker 2: still yeah, it's amazing.

707
00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:47,920
Speaker 3: But if I hadn't met he and his partner at

708
00:34:47,920 --> 00:34:50,000
Speaker 3: that time, doctor Don Marsi, who has since passed away

709
00:34:50,040 --> 00:34:52,040
Speaker 3: from a heart attack. If I hadn't met the two

710
00:34:52,040 --> 00:34:56,640
Speaker 3: of them in nineteen eighty eight, that changed my physical fitness,

711
00:34:56,760 --> 00:35:00,239
Speaker 3: changed my mental preparation, changed by how I think, how

712
00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:03,799
Speaker 3: it changed everything about me. It took a while. I

713
00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:07,800
Speaker 3: was a hard one to convince, Oh no, are you really,

714
00:35:09,000 --> 00:35:11,640
Speaker 3: I can tell you in ninety two at Indy, I

715
00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:13,439
Speaker 3: would have not been able to do what I did

716
00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:15,360
Speaker 3: in ninety two at Indy had it not been for

717
00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:19,480
Speaker 3: doctor Shock the training and I could go on and on.

718
00:35:19,520 --> 00:35:21,640
Speaker 3: I could do a whole session anyway. So I asked

719
00:35:21,640 --> 00:35:22,400
Speaker 3: doctor Joe.

720
00:35:22,239 --> 00:35:24,080
Speaker 2: Should by the way, we should point out to the

721
00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:27,680
Speaker 2: business that Jacques de Laire is a mental coach. If

722
00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:29,680
Speaker 2: they know who he is.

723
00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:32,640
Speaker 3: He's actually a sports physiologist. His training is in the

724
00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:37,319
Speaker 3: physical part. But his partner with psychologists. There was the

725
00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:39,719
Speaker 3: brain guy in the body guy. But when when the

726
00:35:39,719 --> 00:35:42,919
Speaker 3: brain guy died, he had so much information from them

727
00:35:42,920 --> 00:35:45,799
Speaker 3: that he was able to Boorf and really develop that expertise.

728
00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:49,520
Speaker 3: But he is available. It's called human performance. Now I

729
00:35:49,520 --> 00:35:52,839
Speaker 3: think performance, I mean because I think every race car

730
00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:55,920
Speaker 3: driver should have somebody good to help them train their

731
00:35:55,960 --> 00:36:00,319
Speaker 3: brain because we are our worst enemies most of the time.

732
00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:03,799
Speaker 3: And then I had the whole We went to a

733
00:36:03,840 --> 00:36:06,759
Speaker 3: gym and I was It was in Indianapolis where I

734
00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:08,360
Speaker 3: went and met with people at the gym, and I

735
00:36:08,400 --> 00:36:10,760
Speaker 3: explained to them the stuff that we had to test.

736
00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:15,520
Speaker 3: Cardiovascular strength, flexibility, grip strength. We had a grip strength

737
00:36:15,640 --> 00:36:18,719
Speaker 3: so we had a whole training physical training. They'd go

738
00:36:18,719 --> 00:36:20,840
Speaker 3: through this whole exercise with doctor Jock. On the mental

739
00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:23,759
Speaker 3: part of it, I hired a camera crew. They had

740
00:36:23,800 --> 00:36:27,080
Speaker 3: to be interviewed so that they could learn about media training.

741
00:36:27,680 --> 00:36:31,000
Speaker 3: And then every night at dinner, I had a nutritionist

742
00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:33,839
Speaker 3: prepare all the meals and so that they could learn

743
00:36:33,840 --> 00:36:36,000
Speaker 3: what they're supposed to eat, whether on the road or whatever.

744
00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:39,200
Speaker 3: Every night at dinner, I would pull a name out

745
00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:41,719
Speaker 3: of a hat and they didn't know who they were

746
00:36:41,760 --> 00:36:43,399
Speaker 3: going to who was going to get pulled that night,

747
00:36:43,840 --> 00:36:45,480
Speaker 3: and they had to get up and give a speech.

748
00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:48,480
Speaker 3: Because as a race driver, when you're invited to go

749
00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:50,680
Speaker 3: to dinner and then say, oh, tell it, tell the table,

750
00:36:51,000 --> 00:36:54,759
Speaker 3: you know, I mean, and most people aren't really good

751
00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:56,080
Speaker 3: at that, you know, and.

752
00:36:56,080 --> 00:36:58,239
Speaker 2: So nope, oh that's scared of it.

753
00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:00,520
Speaker 3: I mean I was, Yeah, I mean I used to

754
00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:01,799
Speaker 3: used to break out in a rash if I had

755
00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:04,520
Speaker 3: to talk more than three people. So there was media training,

756
00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:07,239
Speaker 3: there was nutritional training, there was the physical training. There

757
00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:09,520
Speaker 3: was and then we went to the racetrack and I

758
00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:12,480
Speaker 3: had go carts. Everybody started in go carts because I

759
00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:14,760
Speaker 3: had to see could they really were they really able

760
00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:17,680
Speaker 3: to be a race car driver? And if they passed

761
00:37:17,719 --> 00:37:21,000
Speaker 3: the go kart test, then different years I would have

762
00:37:21,040 --> 00:37:23,840
Speaker 3: different cars. I mean when I was out here, I

763
00:37:23,880 --> 00:37:26,440
Speaker 3: did it at Bob Vodra, and so then we'd have

764
00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:28,880
Speaker 3: openheel cars and then we'd have closed wheel cars, and

765
00:37:28,960 --> 00:37:31,120
Speaker 3: you know, so there was on track. There was one

766
00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:35,000
Speaker 3: day of on track programming. So with four days, I

767
00:37:35,080 --> 00:37:39,400
Speaker 3: required one family member or one responsible person that's in

768
00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:43,040
Speaker 3: their life attend with them. So this wasn't like where

769
00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:45,160
Speaker 3: you drop the kids off and then go off somewhere.

770
00:37:45,239 --> 00:37:47,680
Speaker 3: Because I wanted the parents, because in most cases kids

771
00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:50,160
Speaker 3: were still living at home. I wanted the parents to

772
00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:53,640
Speaker 3: hear everything that we told them. So I did that.

773
00:37:53,840 --> 00:37:57,480
Speaker 3: I had over two hundred and thirty drivers from thirty

774
00:37:57,520 --> 00:38:01,200
Speaker 3: states in six countries. So we did it at Daytona,

775
00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:03,239
Speaker 3: we did it at Charlotte, we did it at Indianapolis,

776
00:38:03,280 --> 00:38:06,200
Speaker 3: and we did it in Phoenix. Over that twenty plus years,

777
00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:11,040
Speaker 3: and I could count on one hand out of that

778
00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:14,640
Speaker 3: two hundred and thirty of who were really good.

779
00:38:15,160 --> 00:38:17,759
Speaker 2: Okay, who's the one that didn't make it that was

780
00:38:17,760 --> 00:38:18,920
Speaker 2: really good and should have made it?

781
00:38:19,040 --> 00:38:22,480
Speaker 3: Oh my god. Her first name is Alison. She was

782
00:38:22,640 --> 00:38:26,040
Speaker 3: really good, and I was so pissed off because I

783
00:38:26,040 --> 00:38:28,560
Speaker 3: mean she just sort of she did some racing after that,

784
00:38:29,680 --> 00:38:31,640
Speaker 3: and then she dropped off the radar, and I was

785
00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:35,040
Speaker 3: asking somebody, I forget who, it's a long time ago,

786
00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:39,160
Speaker 3: what happened to Alison? She got married and she got

787
00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:41,840
Speaker 3: married like a screw chief guy that works in NASCAR.

788
00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:44,640
Speaker 3: So she was really good, and I was disappointed. But

789
00:38:44,680 --> 00:38:49,359
Speaker 3: I mean, Danica Sarah, Milanie Troxel, actually Erica Anders came

790
00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:53,359
Speaker 3: through the program. Aaron Crocker. I was trying to think, well,

791
00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:55,960
Speaker 3: for sure, Aaron was really good.

792
00:38:56,120 --> 00:38:59,319
Speaker 2: I mean, yeah, I'm surprised she didn't do more I

793
00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:02,200
Speaker 2: thought she was to be the one, honestly, yeah.

794
00:39:01,880 --> 00:39:04,680
Speaker 3: And she could have been, but you know what happened there,

795
00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:07,400
Speaker 3: so I finally have forgiven Ray. I wasn't for the

796
00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:07,960
Speaker 3: longest time.

797
00:39:08,000 --> 00:39:12,160
Speaker 2: I was. It worked out for them in the end,

798
00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:14,000
Speaker 2: That's exactly just I.

799
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:15,719
Speaker 3: Was just with them and Kate, you know. So yeah,

800
00:39:15,760 --> 00:39:18,160
Speaker 3: I mean there is a certain I mean, Shaye Holbrook

801
00:39:18,239 --> 00:39:21,040
Speaker 3: was also an outstanding and the part of it was

802
00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:23,880
Speaker 3: they were really good and then they also took what

803
00:39:24,040 --> 00:39:26,600
Speaker 3: we were telling them and at least started to incorporate

804
00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:30,520
Speaker 3: it into their program. I mean, things like writing thank

805
00:39:30,560 --> 00:39:32,319
Speaker 3: you notes for the people that help you, you know,

806
00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:35,880
Speaker 3: the returning phone calls. Of course now it's emails and everything.

807
00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:38,520
Speaker 3: But I mean I had like Linda Conti came in

808
00:39:38,680 --> 00:39:41,480
Speaker 3: and would talk about finances, talk about how to manage

809
00:39:41,480 --> 00:39:42,480
Speaker 3: your find what are you going to do if you

810
00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:45,959
Speaker 3: actually get sponsorship. I had John Bickford, which is Jeff

811
00:39:46,000 --> 00:39:49,799
Speaker 3: Gordon's Oh Sarah. He recommended Sarah Fisher to come. He

812
00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:52,319
Speaker 3: actually paid for Sarah. I charged five hundred dollars, by

813
00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:54,880
Speaker 3: the way, five hundred dollars for four days.

814
00:39:55,160 --> 00:39:55,839
Speaker 2: That's really good.

815
00:39:56,080 --> 00:39:58,160
Speaker 3: And that's what I did through my foundation. I raised

816
00:39:58,160 --> 00:40:00,239
Speaker 3: money to help because I had to pay for all

817
00:40:00,280 --> 00:40:03,160
Speaker 3: of the resources that we had, you know. But I

818
00:40:03,239 --> 00:40:04,880
Speaker 3: just the way I looked at it is that it

819
00:40:04,920 --> 00:40:09,160
Speaker 3: was mostly the off track tools that you need to

820
00:40:09,200 --> 00:40:12,279
Speaker 3: be successful, because if you're running sprint cars or you're

821
00:40:12,320 --> 00:40:15,799
Speaker 3: running drag racinger, you know, every one of those, the

822
00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:19,239
Speaker 3: on track part is different, but the off track part

823
00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:22,800
Speaker 3: is the same. To sort of clarify, women in motorsports

824
00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:26,520
Speaker 3: in North America is about all disciplines of racing for

825
00:40:26,600 --> 00:40:29,680
Speaker 3: all careers, for women in all careers in racing, which

826
00:40:29,719 --> 00:40:31,160
Speaker 3: is important, very important.

827
00:40:31,480 --> 00:40:34,480
Speaker 2: Racing is not just about us as drivers, even though

828
00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:38,719
Speaker 2: we're inherently selfish. I think it is about the engineers

829
00:40:38,719 --> 00:40:41,839
Speaker 2: and the mechanics, and the teams and the series and

830
00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:44,520
Speaker 2: the sponsors and like this, so many other aspects.

831
00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:48,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, because that will help generate more support for the

832
00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:50,960
Speaker 3: women drivers because now they'll see that this is actually,

833
00:40:51,239 --> 00:40:54,279
Speaker 3: you know, women can be successful in this industry. That

834
00:40:54,360 --> 00:40:56,759
Speaker 3: it will kind of help break some you know down.

835
00:40:57,200 --> 00:40:59,600
Speaker 3: But I also I have not given up on women

836
00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:02,000
Speaker 3: race cars driver. So I mean there's still me who

837
00:41:02,080 --> 00:41:06,280
Speaker 3: is passionate about wanting to figure out what you just said,

838
00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:09,000
Speaker 3: how can we get more women winning. I mean, that's

839
00:41:09,239 --> 00:41:11,520
Speaker 3: I want to see that desperately, and that I'm not

840
00:41:11,600 --> 00:41:16,040
Speaker 3: expecting women Motorsports North America to be that solution necessarily,

841
00:41:16,120 --> 00:41:20,120
Speaker 3: you know, I just sometimes I want to defend the

842
00:41:20,120 --> 00:41:21,439
Speaker 3: fact that I want a woman to win.

843
00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:24,479
Speaker 2: I don't think you need to defend it. I think

844
00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:27,360
Speaker 2: I want it to and maybe here and then their future,

845
00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:30,840
Speaker 2: you and I can start something that helps that to

846
00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:49,040
Speaker 2: happen in some way shape to be continued TVC. Why

847
00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:53,400
Speaker 2: do you think there's been this gap behind my generation?

848
00:41:53,560 --> 00:41:57,440
Speaker 2: Then the Danica's and the Simonas and the Anti Beatrices

849
00:41:57,600 --> 00:42:00,400
Speaker 2: and the me and then you look at like I

850
00:42:00,440 --> 00:42:02,400
Speaker 2: thought Jamie did a great job last year, but then

851
00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:04,239
Speaker 2: Jamie said it was too physical for her and went

852
00:42:04,280 --> 00:42:07,479
Speaker 2: back and did sports cars, which was disappointing honestly because

853
00:42:07,520 --> 00:42:10,399
Speaker 2: I thought maybe we had somebody coming in. But now

854
00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:12,359
Speaker 2: there seems to be this big gap and this big hole,

855
00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:14,960
Speaker 2: and there's nobody winning in the lower formula like we

856
00:42:15,040 --> 00:42:17,839
Speaker 2: did at the time. Why do you think that that is?

857
00:42:17,880 --> 00:42:19,840
Speaker 2: Do you think it's just cyclical or do you think

858
00:42:20,239 --> 00:42:21,120
Speaker 2: there's a reason for it.

859
00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:23,520
Speaker 3: Well, there's more numbers now, at least there are more

860
00:42:23,600 --> 00:42:26,680
Speaker 3: females racing now than I think there were for the

861
00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:30,279
Speaker 3: any of the decades before, and they are actually more

862
00:42:30,320 --> 00:42:33,399
Speaker 3: of them are capable of being good. I don't really know.

863
00:42:33,640 --> 00:42:35,200
Speaker 3: I have some theories.

864
00:42:35,719 --> 00:42:40,200
Speaker 2: First of all, I shouldn't say this, but you can

865
00:42:40,280 --> 00:42:40,760
Speaker 2: know anyway.

866
00:42:41,320 --> 00:42:46,400
Speaker 3: I somehow think that women when they don't succeed and

867
00:42:46,680 --> 00:42:49,120
Speaker 3: if they have, and one of the biggest words that

868
00:42:49,160 --> 00:42:52,480
Speaker 3: could get us in trouble is that word expectation. So

869
00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:55,880
Speaker 3: I think Danica said the bar that everybody felt that

870
00:42:55,960 --> 00:42:59,640
Speaker 3: they could do what Danica did, you know, and when

871
00:42:59,719 --> 00:43:03,319
Speaker 3: that didn't happen, whatever level they were racing at, I

872
00:43:03,360 --> 00:43:07,960
Speaker 3: think they get discouraged sooner and easier because they also

873
00:43:08,640 --> 00:43:11,000
Speaker 3: they look at the world and say, you know, there's

874
00:43:11,040 --> 00:43:15,480
Speaker 3: other things I can do. They see options. The majority

875
00:43:15,560 --> 00:43:19,160
Speaker 3: of the guys that race they can't do anything else.

876
00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:21,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, well I can't do anything else.

877
00:43:21,560 --> 00:43:23,440
Speaker 3: They don't have a plan B. But they don't have

878
00:43:23,480 --> 00:43:24,040
Speaker 3: a plan B.

879
00:43:24,640 --> 00:43:24,920
Speaker 2: Yeah.

880
00:43:24,960 --> 00:43:26,799
Speaker 3: I think a lot of the gals and if they've

881
00:43:26,840 --> 00:43:29,640
Speaker 3: done it for seven or eight years, and the other

882
00:43:29,800 --> 00:43:31,840
Speaker 3: is that they're doing it out of their parents' pocket.

883
00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:34,360
Speaker 3: I mean they're still doing it out of their parents' pocket.

884
00:43:34,400 --> 00:43:36,600
Speaker 3: And so if the money doesn't show up from and

885
00:43:36,640 --> 00:43:41,000
Speaker 3: they expect again that word expectation, because they have accomplished

886
00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:46,960
Speaker 3: something better than let's say average on their parents or friends' money.

887
00:43:47,640 --> 00:43:52,440
Speaker 3: They don't understand that that isn't enough to get to

888
00:43:52,480 --> 00:43:53,280
Speaker 3: that next level.

889
00:43:54,120 --> 00:43:57,080
Speaker 2: What do you make of this old female one makes

890
00:43:57,160 --> 00:44:00,840
Speaker 2: series with that runs with one the academy? What was

891
00:44:00,880 --> 00:44:03,200
Speaker 2: the W series? What are your thoughts on it? If

892
00:44:03,239 --> 00:44:04,120
Speaker 2: we ever discussed that.

893
00:44:04,680 --> 00:44:05,480
Speaker 3: No, I don't think we are.

894
00:44:06,000 --> 00:44:06,759
Speaker 2: I didn't think we have.

895
00:44:07,160 --> 00:44:09,280
Speaker 3: I mean when the W series, when it was announced,

896
00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:12,279
Speaker 3: I was on the fence but also pretty much against it,

897
00:44:12,320 --> 00:44:15,000
Speaker 3: but was careful, you know, I needed to learn more

898
00:44:15,040 --> 00:44:17,240
Speaker 3: because it was, let's face that it hadn't been done yet,

899
00:44:17,320 --> 00:44:19,640
Speaker 3: and they hadn't when they announced it. We didn't see

900
00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:22,200
Speaker 3: what it was really going to be like, right, And

901
00:44:22,200 --> 00:44:24,640
Speaker 3: then I got to over to Ostrica and was part

902
00:44:24,640 --> 00:44:28,680
Speaker 3: of the original selection process. I watched them go fifty

903
00:44:28,719 --> 00:44:32,560
Speaker 3: drivers go through that test, the initial test, and realized

904
00:44:32,600 --> 00:44:35,800
Speaker 3: that it actually was The intentions were really to provide

905
00:44:35,800 --> 00:44:39,359
Speaker 3: a quality on track experience at the level that we're

906
00:44:39,400 --> 00:44:42,920
Speaker 3: talking about, which is not really entry level, but it's

907
00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:45,439
Speaker 3: let's just say it's the lower of the mid level.

908
00:44:45,480 --> 00:44:47,560
Speaker 3: I mean it's after you get past the entry level

909
00:44:47,920 --> 00:44:49,799
Speaker 3: of whatever it is you're doing. Now you're on that

910
00:44:49,840 --> 00:44:52,239
Speaker 3: bottom wrong of the ladder to that next step up.

911
00:44:53,320 --> 00:44:57,480
Speaker 3: So I think that having a series that commits to

912
00:44:57,840 --> 00:45:00,880
Speaker 3: good race cars, good crews working on the race cars,

913
00:45:01,400 --> 00:45:04,359
Speaker 3: if it is all females, it's it's creating an opportunity

914
00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:07,759
Speaker 3: for them to race that they probably wouldn't have an

915
00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:11,120
Speaker 3: equality program. Plus they usually they did at the W Series,

916
00:45:11,120 --> 00:45:12,920
Speaker 3: and I know they're doing it at F One Academy.

917
00:45:13,320 --> 00:45:16,560
Speaker 3: Is they are providing the off track training that we're

918
00:45:16,600 --> 00:45:19,200
Speaker 3: talking about, They have to do media training, they've got fitness,

919
00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:22,279
Speaker 3: They really bring in all of the elements, so it's

920
00:45:22,320 --> 00:45:26,920
Speaker 3: a quality experience. I don't believe we need a bunch

921
00:45:26,920 --> 00:45:31,200
Speaker 3: of all female racing series because it's one of the

922
00:45:31,200 --> 00:45:33,200
Speaker 3: best assets about our racing is the fact that it

923
00:45:33,280 --> 00:45:36,359
Speaker 3: is gender neutral or there is no definition.

924
00:45:36,280 --> 00:45:39,040
Speaker 2: Right, is it the only sport that we can compete

925
00:45:39,040 --> 00:45:39,680
Speaker 2: equally well.

926
00:45:39,719 --> 00:45:42,759
Speaker 3: Equestrian is open and sailing is open, So.

927
00:45:43,160 --> 00:45:45,480
Speaker 2: Then something near every day talken to you and I pay.

928
00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:47,359
Speaker 3: A lot of attention, and I have friends over there

929
00:45:47,400 --> 00:45:50,400
Speaker 3: in the sailing world, and I have some friends in

930
00:45:50,440 --> 00:45:52,640
Speaker 3: the equestrian world. And I mean I think that you know,

931
00:45:52,680 --> 00:45:56,600
Speaker 3: that's what the Iron Dames Devra is now supporting equestrian True, yeah,

932
00:45:56,640 --> 00:45:58,480
Speaker 3: it's so it's one. We aren't the only, but we're

933
00:45:58,480 --> 00:46:00,719
Speaker 3: one of the few. But it for you to get

934
00:46:00,840 --> 00:46:03,319
Speaker 3: enough experience to be at your best. It took me

935
00:46:03,360 --> 00:46:06,600
Speaker 3: too damn long. I mean I had to didn't waste

936
00:46:06,600 --> 00:46:09,440
Speaker 3: but I ended up using up so many valuable years

937
00:46:09,920 --> 00:46:12,040
Speaker 3: doing this over year and that, I mean the whole

938
00:46:12,040 --> 00:46:14,400
Speaker 3: decade of the eighties. If I hadn't had Ford, I

939
00:46:14,440 --> 00:46:16,520
Speaker 3: wouldn't have had the kind of experience that I had.

940
00:46:16,960 --> 00:46:19,640
Speaker 3: At the same time, it was also limiting me. And

941
00:46:19,640 --> 00:46:21,839
Speaker 3: if I was because I was bold enough to do

942
00:46:22,280 --> 00:46:24,400
Speaker 3: a midget race, I was bold enough to still do

943
00:46:24,440 --> 00:46:26,839
Speaker 3: the twenty four hours and something else, or to go

944
00:46:26,880 --> 00:46:29,640
Speaker 3: to do Lamal. Ford didn't. Ford didn't help me go

945
00:46:29,840 --> 00:46:33,799
Speaker 3: to Lamal and so and going to La Ma going

946
00:46:33,840 --> 00:46:35,960
Speaker 3: down before them alls on straight helped me. When I

947
00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:38,640
Speaker 3: got to Indy, I know how all of a sudden

948
00:46:38,640 --> 00:46:39,759
Speaker 3: I knew what it was like how to go over

949
00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:42,400
Speaker 3: two twenty or two un three miles an hour. So

950
00:46:42,440 --> 00:46:46,080
Speaker 3: I mean I was building my toolbox of experience on

951
00:46:46,120 --> 00:46:49,160
Speaker 3: my own but having a base of having ford. But

952
00:46:49,239 --> 00:46:52,560
Speaker 3: it took forever. I mean, it takes a long time.

953
00:46:52,600 --> 00:46:57,640
Speaker 3: And so I think these gals are benefiting. And I

954
00:46:57,680 --> 00:46:59,880
Speaker 3: told Courtney Crone that when who I was working with,

955
00:47:00,200 --> 00:47:01,879
Speaker 3: you know, had been working with for a number of years,

956
00:47:01,920 --> 00:47:04,480
Speaker 3: I said, I don't turn your nose down at something

957
00:47:04,480 --> 00:47:07,400
Speaker 3: that will provide you with an opportunity to get good experience.

958
00:47:07,719 --> 00:47:09,879
Speaker 3: But don't think that's going to blow the doors open

959
00:47:09,920 --> 00:47:12,480
Speaker 3: and everybody's going to come, no matter how successful you are.

960
00:47:12,520 --> 00:47:14,680
Speaker 3: I mean, look at Jamie. She won the b A

961
00:47:14,760 --> 00:47:17,520
Speaker 3: Series and the F one Academy and yet still had

962
00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:20,319
Speaker 3: to really work hard to put a deal together to

963
00:47:20,320 --> 00:47:22,759
Speaker 3: come over to do the Indie Lights. And then it

964
00:47:22,800 --> 00:47:26,160
Speaker 3: took her two season into the second season and to

965
00:47:26,200 --> 00:47:28,640
Speaker 3: really shine, you know. And even then it took her

966
00:47:28,800 --> 00:47:30,560
Speaker 3: a while towards the middle of the latter part of

967
00:47:30,600 --> 00:47:33,319
Speaker 3: the season to come into her of her own. And

968
00:47:33,440 --> 00:47:35,960
Speaker 3: my understanding, it wasn't that she didn't feel she was

969
00:47:36,000 --> 00:47:39,560
Speaker 3: strong enough to do Indy She knew she was going to.

970
00:47:39,719 --> 00:47:42,080
Speaker 3: She wasn't strong enough to do Indy Lights and develop

971
00:47:42,160 --> 00:47:45,359
Speaker 3: the ability to do that, but there was no sponsorship.

972
00:47:46,160 --> 00:47:48,640
Speaker 2: I mean, I thought I thought she had the money

973
00:47:48,680 --> 00:47:51,799
Speaker 2: and wasn't I thought she tested it Bober and thought

974
00:47:51,840 --> 00:47:54,160
Speaker 2: she strong enough to do that.

975
00:47:54,280 --> 00:47:55,959
Speaker 3: Well, no, she she knew that she had to step

976
00:47:56,040 --> 00:47:58,080
Speaker 3: up a little bit more because Barbara is probably one

977
00:47:58,080 --> 00:47:59,520
Speaker 3: of the hardest tracks to run as far.

978
00:47:59,400 --> 00:48:02,279
Speaker 2: As it went to the hardest, most physical track to

979
00:48:02,320 --> 00:48:03,520
Speaker 2: do it. I was thinking, I.

980
00:48:03,440 --> 00:48:05,680
Speaker 3: Mean she did, and I think the team felt, but

981
00:48:05,719 --> 00:48:06,839
Speaker 3: there was no sponsorship.

982
00:48:07,160 --> 00:48:10,120
Speaker 2: I hope that the next generation are on their way

983
00:48:10,160 --> 00:48:14,000
Speaker 2: because it would be nice to be able to pass

984
00:48:14,040 --> 00:48:16,440
Speaker 2: the baton over like you have and then still be

985
00:48:16,480 --> 00:48:19,239
Speaker 2: involved in some way, shape or form. If you were

986
00:48:19,440 --> 00:48:23,720
Speaker 2: looking at twenty year old Lynn coming into her first

987
00:48:23,800 --> 00:48:27,400
Speaker 2: ever car season, assuming you had the money and everything

988
00:48:27,680 --> 00:48:30,239
Speaker 2: sorted to go and do an entry level season, what

989
00:48:30,280 --> 00:48:34,319
Speaker 2: would your advice be to yourself back then, knowing what

990
00:48:34,400 --> 00:48:35,160
Speaker 2: you know now.

991
00:48:35,680 --> 00:48:38,440
Speaker 3: Part of our challenges there's just so many different ways

992
00:48:38,480 --> 00:48:41,480
Speaker 3: to go bat it, so many care all that kind

993
00:48:41,480 --> 00:48:44,520
Speaker 3: of stuff. Yeah, you know, I think I kind of

994
00:48:44,560 --> 00:48:47,160
Speaker 3: would you know something that day I could do. I

995
00:48:47,200 --> 00:48:49,879
Speaker 3: would put my butt in about as many different race

996
00:48:49,920 --> 00:48:52,200
Speaker 3: cars as I could. In other words, I would go

997
00:48:52,760 --> 00:48:56,600
Speaker 3: and do a variety of cars depending on what sort

998
00:48:56,600 --> 00:48:58,520
Speaker 3: of direction you think you want to go. But I mean,

999
00:48:58,560 --> 00:49:00,880
Speaker 3: I'm looking at the MX five. You know, there's so

1000
00:49:00,880 --> 00:49:04,040
Speaker 3: many great things that come out of that, the racecraft

1001
00:49:04,080 --> 00:49:05,680
Speaker 3: and how to take care of the car and the

1002
00:49:05,800 --> 00:49:09,839
Speaker 3: drafting and huge fields and keeping the car under you

1003
00:49:09,920 --> 00:49:12,000
Speaker 3: and not you know, I mean, there's so many skills

1004
00:49:12,000 --> 00:49:13,359
Speaker 3: that come out of that. I mean, I look at

1005
00:49:13,360 --> 00:49:15,799
Speaker 3: Connor's Illich's career right now as a model for what

1006
00:49:15,880 --> 00:49:19,160
Speaker 3: somebody should in a way be doing, is not not

1007
00:49:19,360 --> 00:49:22,359
Speaker 3: just attached yourself to one series or to one form

1008
00:49:22,400 --> 00:49:27,200
Speaker 3: of racing. What I learned how I felt a Talladega

1009
00:49:27,239 --> 00:49:29,640
Speaker 3: in that Thunderbird versus how I felt three weeks later

1010
00:49:30,000 --> 00:49:32,680
Speaker 3: in that indie car in Memphis. I still and I

1011
00:49:32,680 --> 00:49:36,000
Speaker 3: tell a race card artist, you know, you know in

1012
00:49:36,040 --> 00:49:41,240
Speaker 3: here what just feels right like this is what I want.

1013
00:49:42,000 --> 00:49:44,800
Speaker 3: I have wrestled cars, I have, you know, I've wrestled

1014
00:49:44,800 --> 00:49:47,360
Speaker 3: bears feeling like I'm wrestling bears with race cars and

1015
00:49:47,440 --> 00:49:51,000
Speaker 3: did whatever I had to do to make something work.

1016
00:49:51,520 --> 00:49:53,160
Speaker 3: And I'm not just talk about chassis set up or

1017
00:49:53,200 --> 00:49:56,200
Speaker 3: car set up or and also the team. You got

1018
00:49:56,200 --> 00:49:59,240
Speaker 3: to find your home. You've got to find where your

1019
00:49:59,440 --> 00:50:02,239
Speaker 3: hot butt are hit. And the only way to do

1020
00:50:02,280 --> 00:50:04,319
Speaker 3: that is if you're early on, is to try some

1021
00:50:04,360 --> 00:50:08,960
Speaker 3: different things and then hone in and then find partners,

1022
00:50:09,360 --> 00:50:12,360
Speaker 3: not just money, but find a team, a crew of people,

1023
00:50:12,640 --> 00:50:16,160
Speaker 3: because right now the timing is perfect. Right now, the

1024
00:50:16,239 --> 00:50:20,840
Speaker 3: timing they want to find successful women drivers. And no

1025
00:50:21,239 --> 00:50:23,200
Speaker 3: offense to you, but the younger you are right now,

1026
00:50:23,400 --> 00:50:27,800
Speaker 3: the more talent you bring and also develop your personality

1027
00:50:27,920 --> 00:50:30,479
Speaker 3: to find out who that. Don't be too timid, don't

1028
00:50:30,480 --> 00:50:33,759
Speaker 3: be too bold, but find out who you are and

1029
00:50:34,200 --> 00:50:38,759
Speaker 3: bring that, bring that with you as an asset and

1030
00:50:38,880 --> 00:50:41,200
Speaker 3: find a home, find a family or a home or

1031
00:50:41,239 --> 00:50:45,000
Speaker 3: a team who goes, damn, we can build this together.

1032
00:50:45,080 --> 00:50:47,160
Speaker 3: I had that with Dick Simon. I mean Dick Simon.

1033
00:50:48,400 --> 00:50:50,400
Speaker 3: I can't tell you the difference that it made to

1034
00:50:50,480 --> 00:50:52,239
Speaker 3: have a team owner who just said, we're going to

1035
00:50:52,280 --> 00:50:52,920
Speaker 3: make this happen.

1036
00:50:53,160 --> 00:50:55,520
Speaker 2: I had that in Atlantics with Jim and Pan. They

1037
00:50:55,560 --> 00:50:56,359
Speaker 2: were fantastic.

1038
00:50:56,800 --> 00:50:59,480
Speaker 3: And build on that, you know, find it and then

1039
00:50:59,520 --> 00:51:02,560
Speaker 3: build on it, and you may become the best at

1040
00:51:02,680 --> 00:51:05,840
Speaker 3: something that's less than into your less than cop or

1041
00:51:05,960 --> 00:51:09,080
Speaker 3: less than the very top level. But if we need

1042
00:51:09,120 --> 00:51:13,080
Speaker 3: more women winning, yes, even if it's winning it, I

1043
00:51:13,160 --> 00:51:16,759
Speaker 3: mean like this, Jade who just want to see your

1044
00:51:17,719 --> 00:51:19,560
Speaker 3: copp or whatever the hell that series is called.

1045
00:51:19,920 --> 00:51:23,920
Speaker 2: But yeah, I can't remember you lady, that lady Abuse

1046
00:51:24,040 --> 00:51:26,200
Speaker 2: that I introduced you to. That I saw a race

1047
00:51:26,239 --> 00:51:28,200
Speaker 2: here that I think has something special. She races in

1048
00:51:28,239 --> 00:51:31,000
Speaker 2: the same championship, So maybe that championship is going to

1049
00:51:31,000 --> 00:51:32,920
Speaker 2: produce some really good race card drivers.

1050
00:51:32,960 --> 00:51:36,319
Speaker 3: So win and win enough before you get ready to

1051
00:51:36,320 --> 00:51:39,759
Speaker 3: go somewhere else and try to go somewhere else with

1052
00:51:39,840 --> 00:51:41,359
Speaker 3: the people that got you where you were.

1053
00:51:42,040 --> 00:51:46,400
Speaker 2: Yeah that makes good sense. Well, then, thank you very

1054
00:51:46,520 --> 00:51:49,719
Speaker 2: much for your insight, your stories, and your wisdom. I

1055
00:51:49,719 --> 00:51:52,319
Speaker 2: could talk to you for another episode, and we may

1056
00:51:52,400 --> 00:51:53,840
Speaker 2: well have to do that and get you back on

1057
00:51:53,880 --> 00:51:56,640
Speaker 2: because I have so many more questions. I love you

1058
00:51:56,719 --> 00:51:59,960
Speaker 2: heaps and I will see you very soon, And thank you.

1059
00:52:00,000 --> 00:52:05,920
Speaker 2: Thank you again, thanks for listening to Throttle Therapy. We'll

1060
00:52:05,960 --> 00:52:09,239
Speaker 2: be back next week with more updates and more overtakes.

1061
00:52:09,400 --> 00:52:11,640
Speaker 2: We want to hear from you. Leave us a review

1062
00:52:11,680 --> 00:52:13,799
Speaker 2: in Apple Podcasts and tell us what you want to

1063
00:52:13,800 --> 00:52:16,319
Speaker 2: talk about. It might just be the topic for our

1064
00:52:16,480 --> 00:52:20,680
Speaker 2: next show. Throttle Therapy is hosted by Katherine legg. Our

1065
00:52:20,719 --> 00:52:24,920
Speaker 2: executive producer is Jesse Katz and Our supervising producer is

1066
00:52:24,960 --> 00:52:28,560
Speaker 2: Grace Fuse. Listen to Throttle Therapy on America's number one

1067
00:52:28,560 --> 00:52:32,560
Speaker 2: podcast network, iHeart, open your free iHeart app and search

1068
00:52:32,680 --> 00:52:35,520
Speaker 2: throttle Therapy with Katherine Legg and start listening