1 00:00:15,316 --> 00:00:23,476 Speaker 1: Pushkin Jake Alpern here before we get started, I wanted 2 00:00:23,516 --> 00:00:26,276 Speaker 1: you to know that deep Cover Season two will be 3 00:00:26,356 --> 00:00:31,436 Speaker 1: dropping weekly on Mondays, but the full season is available 4 00:00:31,796 --> 00:00:36,356 Speaker 1: right now ad free for Pushkin Plus subscribers. That's all 5 00:00:36,396 --> 00:00:40,956 Speaker 1: ten episodes right away. Fine Pushkin Plus on the deep 6 00:00:40,996 --> 00:00:53,556 Speaker 1: Cover show page in Apple Podcasts, or at Pushkin dot Fm. 7 00:00:53,556 --> 00:00:58,476 Speaker 1: Previously on deep Cover. Ever since the days of al Capone, 8 00:00:58,796 --> 00:01:02,516 Speaker 1: the Outfit had been an almost unstoppable force in the 9 00:01:02,556 --> 00:01:05,996 Speaker 1: city of Chicago. The mob had corrupted many of the 10 00:01:06,036 --> 00:01:10,916 Speaker 1: city's judges and politicians, and it's hitmen killed with impunity. 11 00:01:11,956 --> 00:01:15,996 Speaker 1: Then in the spring of nineteen eighty six, something unexpected happened. 12 00:01:16,436 --> 00:01:20,276 Speaker 1: A mob lawyer named Bob Cooley walked into the offices 13 00:01:20,316 --> 00:01:25,196 Speaker 1: of federal prosecutors and offered to switch sides. The prosecutor 14 00:01:25,276 --> 00:01:28,516 Speaker 1: he spoke with was stunned. You know, why have the 15 00:01:28,596 --> 00:01:32,436 Speaker 1: gods delivered this gift to me? There's got to be 16 00:01:32,476 --> 00:01:37,236 Speaker 1: something wrong with this. I had profound questions about his motivation. 17 00:01:37,996 --> 00:01:42,156 Speaker 1: I think everybody did. In the eyes of federal prosecutors, 18 00:01:42,356 --> 00:01:46,276 Speaker 1: Bob's story and his offer seemed almost too good to 19 00:01:46,276 --> 00:01:50,436 Speaker 1: be true, So the Feds couldn't help, But wonder what 20 00:01:50,556 --> 00:01:58,836 Speaker 1: was Bob Cooley really after. Bob didn't just start out 21 00:01:58,836 --> 00:02:01,196 Speaker 1: as a lawyer for the mob. He had to work 22 00:02:01,236 --> 00:02:05,716 Speaker 1: his way up. He started out real small potatoes in 23 00:02:05,836 --> 00:02:09,676 Speaker 1: traffic court, and that's where he got his first of 24 00:02:09,716 --> 00:02:14,276 Speaker 1: how things were really done in Chicago. Bob goes to 25 00:02:14,356 --> 00:02:17,836 Speaker 1: traffic court to try his very first case. His client 26 00:02:17,916 --> 00:02:21,436 Speaker 1: had been caught drinking and driving and got a DUI. 27 00:02:21,796 --> 00:02:24,636 Speaker 1: The trial doesn't take long. The judge just throws the 28 00:02:24,676 --> 00:02:28,356 Speaker 1: ticket right out. Bob's like, thank you very much. I mean, 29 00:02:28,556 --> 00:02:32,396 Speaker 1: a win is a win. Right afterwards, in the hallway, 30 00:02:32,756 --> 00:02:36,956 Speaker 1: Bob bumps into this guy he knows, a cop named Jimmy, 31 00:02:37,196 --> 00:02:40,876 Speaker 1: tall skinny guy. People called him dog Breath behind his 32 00:02:40,956 --> 00:02:45,716 Speaker 1: back anyway, Jimmy. He was the judge's cousin. And Jimmy 33 00:02:45,836 --> 00:02:48,196 Speaker 1: said to me, the first one was on the house. 34 00:02:48,356 --> 00:02:50,996 Speaker 1: From here on out, you come and see me before 35 00:02:51,076 --> 00:02:54,836 Speaker 1: you have any case. And I understood what exactly what 36 00:02:54,876 --> 00:02:58,276 Speaker 1: that meant. What he meant was that going forward, Bob 37 00:02:58,276 --> 00:03:01,236 Speaker 1: would have to pay if he expected to win. Old 38 00:03:01,316 --> 00:03:04,556 Speaker 1: dog Breath he was the judge's bag man, the guy 39 00:03:04,596 --> 00:03:08,076 Speaker 1: who collected the bribes in cash and in the coming 40 00:03:08,196 --> 00:03:11,756 Speaker 1: days and weeks. As he learned the ropes, Bob discovered 41 00:03:11,836 --> 00:03:17,036 Speaker 1: that every desired outcome had a price. Duy's one hundred 42 00:03:17,036 --> 00:03:19,876 Speaker 1: and fifty bucks to fix hit someone with a car 43 00:03:20,436 --> 00:03:32,716 Speaker 1: five hundred and traffic court. That was like the minor leagues, 44 00:03:33,236 --> 00:03:36,476 Speaker 1: Bob says. After a few months, he quickly graduated to 45 00:03:36,476 --> 00:03:40,476 Speaker 1: the big leagues, to another courtroom Bob calls gambling and 46 00:03:40,676 --> 00:03:47,116 Speaker 1: gun court, where the real action was taking place. And there, 47 00:03:47,476 --> 00:03:50,956 Speaker 1: like in traffic court, money was flowing straight into the 48 00:03:50,996 --> 00:03:54,876 Speaker 1: judge's pocket. Literally, Bob says, he just sauntered back to 49 00:03:54,916 --> 00:03:58,356 Speaker 1: the judge's chambers, opened the closet door, and I would 50 00:03:58,396 --> 00:04:00,916 Speaker 1: just put, you know, put the money. I would go 51 00:04:00,996 --> 00:04:03,116 Speaker 1: and I would put one hundred dollars for each case 52 00:04:03,676 --> 00:04:07,196 Speaker 1: I had in his pocket. Bob says that before long 53 00:04:07,476 --> 00:04:10,636 Speaker 1: he had three cases a day in this courtroom. Usually 54 00:04:10,676 --> 00:04:13,836 Speaker 1: made motions to dismiss the charges against his clients so 55 00:04:13,876 --> 00:04:17,236 Speaker 1: we could avoid going to trial. This tactic, combined with 56 00:04:17,276 --> 00:04:20,956 Speaker 1: the payoffs, worked very well. Did you ever lose any 57 00:04:20,996 --> 00:04:25,196 Speaker 1: of those cases? I'm never how can I lose? You know? Wait, 58 00:04:25,236 --> 00:04:27,036 Speaker 1: did you did you hold on? Did you like go 59 00:04:27,116 --> 00:04:29,876 Speaker 1: through the motions of like making like a good argument. 60 00:04:30,476 --> 00:04:33,996 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, well, certainly that's why these the judges loved me, 61 00:04:34,036 --> 00:04:37,596 Speaker 1: in particular, because I gave him plenty of reasons, as 62 00:04:37,636 --> 00:04:40,516 Speaker 1: I would say, to hang your hat on. So so 63 00:04:40,556 --> 00:04:43,876 Speaker 1: the bribe is almost just like your insurance. No, it 64 00:04:43,956 --> 00:04:47,276 Speaker 1: was because I'm a nice guy, Jake. I a vast 65 00:04:47,356 --> 00:04:51,236 Speaker 1: majority of those cases. You know, I'm the Legit had 66 00:04:51,276 --> 00:04:54,276 Speaker 1: to be thrown out because you know, the motions were legitimate. 67 00:04:54,516 --> 00:04:58,716 Speaker 1: But I did it because you know, that was my nature. 68 00:04:59,596 --> 00:05:03,756 Speaker 1: His nature. Bob prided himself as a big tipper, a 69 00:05:03,916 --> 00:05:07,916 Speaker 1: generous guy. The way he described it, he was almost 70 00:05:07,916 --> 00:05:11,396 Speaker 1: like the Santa Claus of the court system, just doling 71 00:05:11,476 --> 00:05:15,076 Speaker 1: out gifts as he regaled me with stories. It all 72 00:05:15,116 --> 00:05:18,956 Speaker 1: sounded so grand until I actually stopped and thought about 73 00:05:18,996 --> 00:05:21,676 Speaker 1: what he was saying. Wait, but Bob, are you trying 74 00:05:21,676 --> 00:05:23,716 Speaker 1: to tell me that you really believe that these weren't 75 00:05:23,756 --> 00:05:27,596 Speaker 1: bribes they were just tips. No, No, you're misunderstanding what 76 00:05:27,636 --> 00:05:30,996 Speaker 1: I'm saying. Okay, I am not saying I didn't pay 77 00:05:31,036 --> 00:05:33,876 Speaker 1: a lot of bribes. Yes, I paid a lot of 78 00:05:33,916 --> 00:05:39,116 Speaker 1: bribes on cases. Yes they were bribes. Maybe not in 79 00:05:39,156 --> 00:05:41,876 Speaker 1: the eyes of the law. If you look at the 80 00:05:41,916 --> 00:05:44,396 Speaker 1: definition of a bribe, that you're paying somebody to do 81 00:05:44,556 --> 00:05:48,836 Speaker 1: something that they normally wouldn't do. And because the judges 82 00:05:48,876 --> 00:05:51,676 Speaker 1: were going to rule in his favor anyway, because he'd 83 00:05:51,716 --> 00:05:55,236 Speaker 1: made such a strong case, well then it wasn't technically 84 00:05:55,276 --> 00:05:58,796 Speaker 1: a bribe, was it. It was more like a sweetener 85 00:05:59,516 --> 00:06:03,636 Speaker 1: or an act of larges. That's how Bob told it anyway. 86 00:06:07,036 --> 00:06:10,716 Speaker 1: Over the next few years, Bob earned himself a reputation 87 00:06:10,876 --> 00:06:15,396 Speaker 1: as a flashy criminal defense lawyer. No tie, gold chain Bob. 88 00:06:16,156 --> 00:06:19,156 Speaker 1: He drove a convertible and had vanity plates. Of course, 89 00:06:19,716 --> 00:06:23,476 Speaker 1: r j C his initials. He seemed to play by 90 00:06:23,476 --> 00:06:26,356 Speaker 1: his own rules. He'd park his car in the mayor's 91 00:06:26,396 --> 00:06:29,036 Speaker 1: spot in front of city Hall to show off, to 92 00:06:29,156 --> 00:06:31,716 Speaker 1: prove to his clients that he could get away with it. 93 00:06:33,156 --> 00:06:36,796 Speaker 1: His lifestyle was an advertisement of sorts to attract a 94 00:06:36,916 --> 00:06:41,836 Speaker 1: certain type of client, criminal defendants with deep pockets, often 95 00:06:41,916 --> 00:06:46,196 Speaker 1: guys with mob ties. This is who Bob wanted to impress, 96 00:06:46,756 --> 00:06:50,396 Speaker 1: and they did come calling. In nineteen seventy seven, the 97 00:06:50,516 --> 00:06:53,796 Speaker 1: mob asked him to fix a case, a murder case 98 00:06:54,196 --> 00:06:58,756 Speaker 1: involving a hitman. Bob had a hunch that if he 99 00:06:58,836 --> 00:07:26,796 Speaker 1: said yes, it could change everything for him. I'm Jake 100 00:07:26,836 --> 00:07:32,076 Speaker 1: Halpern and this is deep Cover Bob Bland Episode two, 101 00:07:32,916 --> 00:07:57,596 Speaker 1: The Murder. One day in February of nineteen seventy seven, 102 00:07:58,036 --> 00:08:01,476 Speaker 1: Bob learned that a guy named Pat Marcy wanted to 103 00:08:01,516 --> 00:08:04,196 Speaker 1: meet with him. Marcy was one of the city's most 104 00:08:04,196 --> 00:08:07,716 Speaker 1: powerful men. Bob had never met him before, but he 105 00:08:07,796 --> 00:08:11,236 Speaker 1: knew who he was. Everybody knew Pat Marcy was the 106 00:08:11,276 --> 00:08:14,796 Speaker 1: one that controlled the entire political system. Marcy kept a 107 00:08:14,836 --> 00:08:18,316 Speaker 1: low profile, and even to this day, much of his 108 00:08:18,396 --> 00:08:21,956 Speaker 1: story is still shrouded in mystery. Legend has it his 109 00:08:22,036 --> 00:08:24,596 Speaker 1: career with the mob started back in the days of 110 00:08:24,636 --> 00:08:27,396 Speaker 1: Al Capone. Even his name as a kind of shape 111 00:08:27,396 --> 00:08:31,636 Speaker 1: shifting quality to it. He starts off Pasqualino Marcone on 112 00:08:31,716 --> 00:08:35,076 Speaker 1: his birth certificate, and it keeps changing again and again 113 00:08:35,116 --> 00:08:39,076 Speaker 1: on public records until he finally becomes Pat Marcy in 114 00:08:39,196 --> 00:08:42,716 Speaker 1: nineteen fifty three. Everybody knew Pant Marcy was a former 115 00:08:42,876 --> 00:08:49,476 Speaker 1: Capone mobster, a gunman. Eventually, Marcy went into politics, became 116 00:08:49,516 --> 00:08:52,516 Speaker 1: an official for the First Ward, one of the city's 117 00:08:52,516 --> 00:08:58,276 Speaker 1: most powerful political districts. First Ward picked every basically every judge, 118 00:08:58,956 --> 00:09:05,636 Speaker 1: every prosecutor, every police commander in whatever they controlled the 119 00:09:05,796 --> 00:09:09,836 Speaker 1: entire system. But really Marcy was like the mobs politicals 120 00:09:09,836 --> 00:09:13,476 Speaker 1: are It's head of government affairs, if you will. A 121 00:09:13,556 --> 00:09:16,836 Speaker 1: guy who used the mob, its wealth and its muscle 122 00:09:17,116 --> 00:09:20,836 Speaker 1: to influence a network of corrupt officials. Had an air 123 00:09:20,876 --> 00:09:26,556 Speaker 1: about him that was really scary. He was a nasty, 124 00:09:26,676 --> 00:09:30,036 Speaker 1: vicious human being. You could tell it. If you met 125 00:09:30,036 --> 00:09:33,916 Speaker 1: the man, you would know that he's pure evil, but 126 00:09:34,196 --> 00:09:39,476 Speaker 1: unbelievably powerful in every sense. For Bob, what this meant 127 00:09:39,556 --> 00:09:43,356 Speaker 1: was pretty simple. When Pat Marcy asked for a meeting, 128 00:09:43,996 --> 00:09:49,596 Speaker 1: you took it. On the day of the meeting, Bob 129 00:09:49,636 --> 00:09:52,836 Speaker 1: went to a restaurant in downtown Chicago and waited for 130 00:09:52,876 --> 00:09:56,236 Speaker 1: Pat Marcy to show up. This wasn't just any restaurant, 131 00:09:56,276 --> 00:09:59,396 Speaker 1: by the way. It was a legendary place called Counselor's 132 00:09:59,476 --> 00:10:03,756 Speaker 1: Row where Chicago's trial lawyers and old time politicians went 133 00:10:03,836 --> 00:10:06,236 Speaker 1: to grab a drink and shoot the ship after work. 134 00:10:06,876 --> 00:10:09,716 Speaker 1: There was a corner table known as Booth Number one 135 00:10:10,196 --> 00:10:13,596 Speaker 1: or the first Ward Table, where Pat Marcy held court. 136 00:10:14,316 --> 00:10:18,596 Speaker 1: The table even had its own landline telephone. Anyway, this 137 00:10:18,716 --> 00:10:23,756 Speaker 1: is where Bob waited when Marcy finally showed up that day, 138 00:10:24,156 --> 00:10:27,876 Speaker 1: he didn't actually enter the restaurant. Instead, he waited behind 139 00:10:27,876 --> 00:10:30,916 Speaker 1: a glass door that led to an adjoining lobby and 140 00:10:30,996 --> 00:10:35,436 Speaker 1: just stood there waiting for Bob. The mob's politicals are 141 00:10:35,876 --> 00:10:38,156 Speaker 1: was wearing a three piece suit and a pair of 142 00:10:38,196 --> 00:10:43,716 Speaker 1: tinted glasses that obscured his eyes. Bob stood up, exited 143 00:10:43,756 --> 00:10:47,716 Speaker 1: the restaurant and joined Marcy in the lobby. And right 144 00:10:47,756 --> 00:10:52,116 Speaker 1: there Marcy made his request. He said, Look, he said, 145 00:10:52,116 --> 00:10:54,836 Speaker 1: I've got a case here, can you handle it? And 146 00:10:54,876 --> 00:10:56,956 Speaker 1: I knew exactly what he meant. You know, that was 147 00:10:56,996 --> 00:10:59,636 Speaker 1: our term, you know, for fixing the case speaking the 148 00:10:59,716 --> 00:11:02,876 Speaker 1: language that we spoke. You know, I basically spoke a 149 00:11:02,916 --> 00:11:06,716 Speaker 1: different language, probably than most lawyers. This, of course, is 150 00:11:06,876 --> 00:11:08,876 Speaker 1: part of the reason that Pat asked to meet with. 151 00:11:08,876 --> 00:11:12,876 Speaker 1: Bob knew how to talk about fixing a case without 152 00:11:12,916 --> 00:11:16,076 Speaker 1: ever really talking about it. This was all part of 153 00:11:16,076 --> 00:11:21,196 Speaker 1: Bob's professionalism, if you will. But what Marcy wanted to 154 00:11:21,236 --> 00:11:25,396 Speaker 1: help with was no ordinary request. It was a murder case. 155 00:11:25,996 --> 00:11:28,836 Speaker 1: He asked if Bob knew a judge who could handle it. 156 00:11:29,476 --> 00:11:32,316 Speaker 1: Standing there in the lobby, Bob was at a crossroads. 157 00:11:32,756 --> 00:11:35,596 Speaker 1: If he could come through on this, prove his worth 158 00:11:35,636 --> 00:11:38,796 Speaker 1: to Marcy. It'd be a big deal. No telling what 159 00:11:38,876 --> 00:11:41,796 Speaker 1: Marcy could do for him. On the other hand, this 160 00:11:41,876 --> 00:11:46,276 Speaker 1: was uncharted territory for Bob. He'd fix cases before, placed 161 00:11:46,316 --> 00:11:48,996 Speaker 1: all kinds of bribes or tips as he called them, 162 00:11:49,476 --> 00:11:53,076 Speaker 1: but never in a murder trial. Bob knew he had 163 00:11:53,116 --> 00:11:56,236 Speaker 1: to proceed carefully. If there was one thing he didn't 164 00:11:56,276 --> 00:11:58,996 Speaker 1: want to do, it was promised something that he couldn't deliver. 165 00:11:59,756 --> 00:12:02,476 Speaker 1: He needed more intel, so he asked Marcy to get 166 00:12:02,476 --> 00:12:05,836 Speaker 1: a hold of the police reports, because Bob knew at 167 00:12:05,876 --> 00:12:08,756 Speaker 1: some point all of this would go before judge and 168 00:12:08,836 --> 00:12:11,436 Speaker 1: he had to make sure there was justification for a 169 00:12:11,516 --> 00:12:15,196 Speaker 1: not guilty verdict, enough evidence for the judge to hang 170 00:12:15,276 --> 00:12:18,236 Speaker 1: his hat on. As Bob liked to say, you know, 171 00:12:18,636 --> 00:12:20,756 Speaker 1: so it wouldn't look like the judge had been bribed. 172 00:12:22,116 --> 00:12:25,836 Speaker 1: As if all of this weren't enough pressure. Afterwards, one 173 00:12:25,836 --> 00:12:30,756 Speaker 1: of Pat Marcy's minions pulled Bob aside and warned him. 174 00:12:30,756 --> 00:12:33,036 Speaker 1: He said, you know, if you say you're going to 175 00:12:33,156 --> 00:12:36,956 Speaker 1: take it, I don't want to. You know a problem afterwards, 176 00:12:36,956 --> 00:12:38,956 Speaker 1: and I said, look, I said, if I tell you 177 00:12:38,996 --> 00:12:42,916 Speaker 1: I'll take it, I'll take it. The next day, Pat 178 00:12:42,956 --> 00:12:46,476 Speaker 1: Marcy gave the police reports to Bob and told him 179 00:12:46,796 --> 00:13:04,676 Speaker 1: get back to me. Before Bob would agree to fix 180 00:13:04,756 --> 00:13:08,436 Speaker 1: this murder case, he wanted more details. He wanted to 181 00:13:08,516 --> 00:13:12,836 Speaker 1: understand what exactly had happened, who'd gotten killed, were there 182 00:13:12,836 --> 00:13:16,956 Speaker 1: any witnesses, what was the motive? So let's start with 183 00:13:17,036 --> 00:13:21,116 Speaker 1: who got killed. The victim was William Logan. People called 184 00:13:21,196 --> 00:13:24,556 Speaker 1: him Billy. He was just thirty five years old. He 185 00:13:24,636 --> 00:13:27,556 Speaker 1: was like a big teddy bear. He was tall, Yeah, 186 00:13:27,556 --> 00:13:31,436 Speaker 1: I remember, he had big hands, always smiling, just a 187 00:13:31,436 --> 00:13:36,356 Speaker 1: happy yike. That's Johanna Santonello, Billy's niece. I visited her 188 00:13:36,516 --> 00:13:39,236 Speaker 1: not long ago at her home in the suburbs of Chicago. 189 00:13:40,036 --> 00:13:43,276 Speaker 1: To this day, within the family, Johanna is kind of 190 00:13:43,316 --> 00:13:46,756 Speaker 1: like the keeper of uncle Billy's memory. She has all 191 00:13:46,836 --> 00:13:51,196 Speaker 1: kinds of memorabilia related to him, photos, newspaper clippings, and 192 00:13:51,276 --> 00:13:56,116 Speaker 1: journal entries, also volumes of court papers related to his murder. 193 00:13:56,356 --> 00:13:59,796 Speaker 1: I mean boxes and boxes of all this stuff. When 194 00:13:59,796 --> 00:14:02,236 Speaker 1: I visited Johanna, she had it all laid out on 195 00:14:02,236 --> 00:14:05,076 Speaker 1: the dining room table for me, like the archives of 196 00:14:05,116 --> 00:14:11,716 Speaker 1: some enormous unwritten biography. So it's been a little overwhelming too, 197 00:14:12,916 --> 00:14:16,396 Speaker 1: because there's just so much, and it's like I wanted 198 00:14:16,436 --> 00:14:19,876 Speaker 1: to get organized and for you when have everything, And 199 00:14:19,916 --> 00:14:22,356 Speaker 1: then I started digging into it and I'm like, oh god, 200 00:14:23,476 --> 00:14:26,156 Speaker 1: yeah I get it. It's like I had chairs filled 201 00:14:26,156 --> 00:14:28,036 Speaker 1: it stuff. Yeah. I feel like we're in the scene 202 00:14:28,036 --> 00:14:29,956 Speaker 1: in the movie where they're like trying to they're getting 203 00:14:29,956 --> 00:14:34,116 Speaker 1: ready to go to trial and going over to bo Yeah. 204 00:14:34,196 --> 00:14:36,356 Speaker 1: That's just like, oh my god, there's so much stuff 205 00:14:36,356 --> 00:14:41,676 Speaker 1: on this table. Yeah, it's crazy, But you're meant to 206 00:14:41,716 --> 00:14:48,036 Speaker 1: be here. The story is meant to be told. He 207 00:14:48,196 --> 00:14:51,796 Speaker 1: was a big, strapping guy, played football, not someone you'd 208 00:14:51,836 --> 00:14:54,476 Speaker 1: want to mess with. This is where Uncle Billy was 209 00:14:54,516 --> 00:14:58,676 Speaker 1: in the Army and they won the championship. Those are 210 00:14:58,676 --> 00:15:03,236 Speaker 1: all as Army buddies. Before serving in the military, Billy 211 00:15:03,316 --> 00:15:06,916 Speaker 1: joined the Teamsters at seventeen years old. That's the famous 212 00:15:06,916 --> 00:15:10,636 Speaker 1: truck drivers union that Jimmy Hoffa wants ran. Uncle Billy 213 00:15:10,676 --> 00:15:13,996 Speaker 1: also drove a cab on the side. At the time 214 00:15:14,036 --> 00:15:16,596 Speaker 1: of his death, Billy was divorced and living with his 215 00:15:16,676 --> 00:15:19,876 Speaker 1: two sisters. One of them was recently widowed and had 216 00:15:19,916 --> 00:15:23,476 Speaker 1: four kids. Those kids, by the way, were Johanna and 217 00:15:23,556 --> 00:15:27,236 Speaker 1: her three brothers. Uncle Billy was helping raise them. He 218 00:15:27,356 --> 00:15:32,036 Speaker 1: became like a kindly father to them. Not everyone saw 219 00:15:32,116 --> 00:15:35,756 Speaker 1: uncle Billy this way. According to his ex wife, Billy 220 00:15:36,036 --> 00:15:39,436 Speaker 1: had a darker side. She said he was physically abusive, 221 00:15:40,596 --> 00:15:43,716 Speaker 1: But Johanna says she never saw this side of him. 222 00:15:43,836 --> 00:15:47,236 Speaker 1: As she recalls it, uncle Billy was a gentle giant. 223 00:15:49,356 --> 00:15:51,996 Speaker 1: As we continued sorting through the boxes on her dining 224 00:15:52,036 --> 00:15:55,596 Speaker 1: room table, eventually Johannah pulled out this one picture and 225 00:15:55,756 --> 00:15:58,756 Speaker 1: just stared at it. It was a grainy, black and 226 00:15:58,756 --> 00:16:02,476 Speaker 1: white photo of a two story house. This is the 227 00:16:02,516 --> 00:16:07,516 Speaker 1: house where it happened. That's your house. Yes, this is 228 00:16:07,556 --> 00:16:11,356 Speaker 1: the house that he was killed. See this light pole? Yeah, okay, 229 00:16:11,436 --> 00:16:15,276 Speaker 1: His body was right behind the white pole. Johannah remembers 230 00:16:15,356 --> 00:16:19,436 Speaker 1: vividly the night that uncle Billy was murdered September twenty seventh, 231 00:16:19,756 --> 00:16:24,116 Speaker 1: nineteen seventy two, almost fifty years ago. She was thirteen 232 00:16:24,196 --> 00:16:26,956 Speaker 1: years old at the time, but the whole thing is 233 00:16:26,996 --> 00:16:30,516 Speaker 1: still crisp in her memory. As she recalls it, she 234 00:16:30,716 --> 00:16:34,196 Speaker 1: was lying in bed, uncle Billy was preparing to leave 235 00:16:34,276 --> 00:16:37,956 Speaker 1: for the night shift, and all of a sudden, you 236 00:16:38,116 --> 00:16:42,356 Speaker 1: heard bang, bang, bang, and we didn't know what it was. 237 00:16:43,436 --> 00:16:45,636 Speaker 1: We were in bed. I was wide awake, I remember, 238 00:16:45,756 --> 00:16:49,236 Speaker 1: and my mom ran to the front door, and I 239 00:16:49,356 --> 00:16:54,556 Speaker 1: heard her yell, Billy, Billy, and my uncle was laying 240 00:16:54,556 --> 00:16:58,036 Speaker 1: out in front, and my mom said to my aunt, 241 00:16:58,116 --> 00:17:01,876 Speaker 1: Billie's hurt really bad. And my aunt went out there 242 00:17:06,716 --> 00:17:11,036 Speaker 1: and she took my uncle's head and she placed it 243 00:17:11,956 --> 00:17:16,516 Speaker 1: on her toward her lap, and my brothers ran to 244 00:17:16,556 --> 00:17:19,036 Speaker 1: get blankets and came out and they covered my uncle. 245 00:17:20,356 --> 00:17:29,996 Speaker 1: And you could just hear a moan. The aunt that 246 00:17:30,116 --> 00:17:33,196 Speaker 1: Johanna mentions here, the one holding Uncle Billy in her 247 00:17:33,236 --> 00:17:37,076 Speaker 1: lap as he lay dying. That's her Aunt Betty. She's 248 00:17:37,116 --> 00:17:40,996 Speaker 1: no longer alive. But before she passed, Aunt Betty actually 249 00:17:41,036 --> 00:17:44,436 Speaker 1: made recordings of herself in which she recounted all her 250 00:17:44,476 --> 00:17:48,556 Speaker 1: memories of that fateful night. And these recordings they were 251 00:17:48,596 --> 00:17:51,836 Speaker 1: part of this massive collection of memorabilia that Aunt Betty 252 00:17:51,916 --> 00:17:55,916 Speaker 1: had bequeathed to Johanna. Johanna had the audio cassettes laid 253 00:17:55,916 --> 00:17:58,876 Speaker 1: out on the dining room table, front and center, just 254 00:17:59,036 --> 00:18:02,596 Speaker 1: waiting to be played. She loaded one of them into 255 00:18:02,596 --> 00:18:08,916 Speaker 1: a little tape recorder and hit play. Our story starts 256 00:18:09,116 --> 00:18:15,076 Speaker 1: on September twenty seventh, nineteen seventy two, the night Billy 257 00:18:15,196 --> 00:18:22,636 Speaker 1: was killed. Speed that's my Aunt Betty. We listened together 258 00:18:22,836 --> 00:18:26,916 Speaker 1: as Aunt Betty described holding uncle Billy. Billy was on 259 00:18:26,956 --> 00:18:32,796 Speaker 1: the lawn herd fan. I proceeded to the lawn. He 260 00:18:32,876 --> 00:18:37,796 Speaker 1: was near his car on the parkway. I kept calling 261 00:18:37,836 --> 00:18:41,796 Speaker 1: his name. He turned, looked at me. He raised his 262 00:18:41,876 --> 00:18:45,156 Speaker 1: hand in the case fell out of his hand. As 263 00:18:45,156 --> 00:18:50,156 Speaker 1: I knelt down, he turned and his back was rusting 264 00:18:50,156 --> 00:18:54,036 Speaker 1: on my knees. And I kept saying, Billy, Billy, what happened? 265 00:18:54,676 --> 00:18:58,516 Speaker 1: What happened? It was unclear how bad the uncle Billy 266 00:18:58,676 --> 00:19:02,316 Speaker 1: was hurt, but there was blood everywhere. A family member 267 00:19:02,396 --> 00:19:05,996 Speaker 1: rushed back inside and called the police. By then many 268 00:19:06,036 --> 00:19:08,916 Speaker 1: of the neighbors had also come outside, seeing what happened, 269 00:19:09,156 --> 00:19:13,396 Speaker 1: and they too were calling for help. Nobody responded. There 270 00:19:13,476 --> 00:19:17,516 Speaker 1: was nobody almost for half an hour, and by this 271 00:19:17,636 --> 00:19:23,756 Speaker 1: time people had gathered neighbors. Everybody was out, The police maintained. 272 00:19:24,756 --> 00:19:28,316 Speaker 1: I told him my brother had type of blood. But 273 00:19:28,476 --> 00:19:30,556 Speaker 1: here is from the classes FREDI had come across. She 274 00:19:30,676 --> 00:19:33,636 Speaker 1: felt this pulse that was still a pulse, and as 275 00:19:33,636 --> 00:19:36,516 Speaker 1: far as I was concerned, he was still alive. The 276 00:19:36,596 --> 00:19:39,796 Speaker 1: squad car took Aunt Betty to the hospital. There, she 277 00:19:39,876 --> 00:19:44,916 Speaker 1: met up with her other brother, Richard. Richard arrived and 278 00:19:45,116 --> 00:19:49,636 Speaker 1: Richard went right into the emergency room. A priest came 279 00:19:50,956 --> 00:19:53,276 Speaker 1: and he asked if we wanted to lay us rights, 280 00:19:53,316 --> 00:19:57,676 Speaker 1: and I said yes, And then Richard came out a 281 00:19:57,716 --> 00:20:02,476 Speaker 1: little while later and I I said, he said they killed him, 282 00:20:02,636 --> 00:20:12,116 Speaker 1: he said. After we listened to Aunt Betty's tapes, Johanna 283 00:20:12,196 --> 00:20:16,916 Speaker 1: looked spent. She glanced wearily around her living room, and 284 00:20:16,956 --> 00:20:21,956 Speaker 1: I began to appreciate how all this stuff, all this memorabilia, was, 285 00:20:22,076 --> 00:20:25,556 Speaker 1: in some ways a burden for her. The boxes gave 286 00:20:25,636 --> 00:20:30,356 Speaker 1: heft and shape and immovability to these memories. Johanna had 287 00:20:30,396 --> 00:20:36,916 Speaker 1: to physically navigate around them. As far as I could 288 00:20:36,916 --> 00:20:39,316 Speaker 1: tell her, Aunt Betty had been kind of obsessed with 289 00:20:39,396 --> 00:20:44,236 Speaker 1: Billy's death, and this obsession was fueled by Betty's complete 290 00:20:44,276 --> 00:20:47,396 Speaker 1: bafflement as to why anyone would want to kill her 291 00:20:47,396 --> 00:20:51,116 Speaker 1: brother in the first place. This couldn't he happened to 292 00:20:51,356 --> 00:20:54,756 Speaker 1: was it couldn't happen to our family. We didn't, we 293 00:20:54,876 --> 00:20:59,396 Speaker 1: never bothered nobody. What was this? What could have happened? 294 00:20:59,836 --> 00:21:05,116 Speaker 1: Why Billy? Why Billy? What did he ever do? But 295 00:21:05,236 --> 00:21:09,396 Speaker 1: it turns out Aunt Betty did have one clue something 296 00:21:09,436 --> 00:21:12,076 Speaker 1: somebody said to her on the night of the murder. 297 00:21:13,516 --> 00:21:17,676 Speaker 1: Before I get into describe her, somebody approached me and 298 00:21:17,836 --> 00:21:21,036 Speaker 1: said to me, I saw it all. I saw it. 299 00:21:22,876 --> 00:21:26,436 Speaker 1: Someone told her, I saw it all. In the chaos 300 00:21:26,436 --> 00:21:28,956 Speaker 1: of the moment, Aunt Betty couldn't really focus on who 301 00:21:28,956 --> 00:21:31,596 Speaker 1: had said this to her. She just remembered his voice, 302 00:21:31,876 --> 00:21:35,276 Speaker 1: his words, but not his face or his name. And 303 00:21:35,636 --> 00:21:39,036 Speaker 1: kind of amazingly, it was a long time, several years 304 00:21:39,076 --> 00:21:42,396 Speaker 1: in fact, before Aunt Betty even learned who this man 305 00:21:42,596 --> 00:21:48,876 Speaker 1: was or what exactly he'd seen. Turns out, this man 306 00:21:49,036 --> 00:21:52,596 Speaker 1: was a neighbor, just a regular guy, and he was 307 00:21:52,716 --> 00:21:56,556 Speaker 1: destined to become the most important witness in the murder 308 00:21:56,596 --> 00:22:20,596 Speaker 1: of Billy Logan. In order to fix this murder case 309 00:22:20,636 --> 00:22:23,676 Speaker 1: for the mob, Bob needed to know who the victim was, 310 00:22:24,316 --> 00:22:27,156 Speaker 1: but the real key was knowing who the witnesses were. 311 00:22:27,556 --> 00:22:30,236 Speaker 1: That was going to be crucial because it would tell 312 00:22:30,316 --> 00:22:33,676 Speaker 1: him just how weak or strong the prosecution's case was, 313 00:22:34,396 --> 00:22:36,476 Speaker 1: and then he'd know how big an ask it would 314 00:22:36,516 --> 00:22:39,556 Speaker 1: be when he approached a judge with a bribe. So 315 00:22:39,836 --> 00:22:42,596 Speaker 1: Bob soon found out more about the witness He worked 316 00:22:42,596 --> 00:22:45,636 Speaker 1: at gas stations and also drove a milk truck. His 317 00:22:45,796 --> 00:22:50,716 Speaker 1: name was Robert Lowe. The night of the murder, Robert 318 00:22:50,756 --> 00:22:53,476 Speaker 1: Lowe had been out walking his dog, Ginger, when he 319 00:22:53,516 --> 00:22:56,276 Speaker 1: noticed a car idling just down the street from the 320 00:22:56,316 --> 00:22:59,716 Speaker 1: Logan's house. Then he heard a shout followed by a 321 00:22:59,756 --> 00:23:04,996 Speaker 1: loud bang. He saw Logan's body fall backwards. Moments later, 322 00:23:05,116 --> 00:23:08,316 Speaker 1: someone got out of the idling car and shot Logan again. 323 00:23:09,676 --> 00:23:12,476 Speaker 1: A street light illuminated the man's face for just a 324 00:23:12,476 --> 00:23:15,436 Speaker 1: few seconds. Robert Lowe got a glimpse of the killer. 325 00:23:19,756 --> 00:23:22,716 Speaker 1: Later that night, he gave a brief statement to the police. 326 00:23:25,196 --> 00:23:28,916 Speaker 1: Sometime later, two detectives followed up and visited Robert at work. 327 00:23:29,476 --> 00:23:31,836 Speaker 1: Then they had him come down to the station. We 328 00:23:31,916 --> 00:23:34,836 Speaker 1: know what happens next because Robert recounted all of this 329 00:23:34,916 --> 00:23:38,156 Speaker 1: to a journalist named Maurice Posley, who ended up writing 330 00:23:38,196 --> 00:23:41,116 Speaker 1: a book about the murder. Down at the police station, 331 00:23:41,476 --> 00:23:45,036 Speaker 1: the detectives hauled out four photo albums. They were collections 332 00:23:45,036 --> 00:23:52,156 Speaker 1: of mugshots organized thematically. Each album had its own label homicide, rape, burglary, robbery, 333 00:23:52,476 --> 00:23:55,596 Speaker 1: auto theft. Take your time and go through him, The 334 00:23:55,676 --> 00:23:58,516 Speaker 1: detectives told Robert, see if you can id the shooter. 335 00:23:59,476 --> 00:24:02,756 Speaker 1: It seemed improbable, like looking for a needle in a haystack. 336 00:24:04,076 --> 00:24:07,836 Speaker 1: Robert was halfway through the last binder when he saw him. 337 00:24:08,116 --> 00:24:13,876 Speaker 1: Narrow face, aquiline nose, dark eyes, got him, said Robert, 338 00:24:14,596 --> 00:24:18,116 Speaker 1: you sure, asked one of the detectives. Yeah, I'm sure, 339 00:24:18,196 --> 00:24:21,956 Speaker 1: said Robert. The detectives didn't tell Robert the name of 340 00:24:21,996 --> 00:24:25,316 Speaker 1: the guy, he just ideed. They just told him he 341 00:24:25,316 --> 00:24:35,316 Speaker 1: could go. Now. Turns out the guy, Robert pointed out 342 00:24:35,836 --> 00:24:39,956 Speaker 1: he was Harry Alamann, a reputed hitman for the mob. 343 00:24:41,276 --> 00:24:43,996 Speaker 1: Seems like this would be a tantalizing lead for the police, 344 00:24:44,676 --> 00:24:49,276 Speaker 1: but remarkably, nothing happened with this investigation for several years. 345 00:24:50,596 --> 00:24:56,116 Speaker 1: Then a second witness materialized, named Louie Almida. Louie claimed 346 00:24:56,156 --> 00:24:58,996 Speaker 1: to be a friend of Harry's, an accomplice to the murder, 347 00:24:59,156 --> 00:25:02,236 Speaker 1: the guy who drove the getaway car. He was now 348 00:25:02,236 --> 00:25:04,596 Speaker 1: in trouble with the law himself on a separate matter 349 00:25:04,996 --> 00:25:07,876 Speaker 1: and was looking to talk, so he served up his 350 00:25:07,956 --> 00:25:12,236 Speaker 1: old pale Harry on a silver platter, said yep, he's 351 00:25:12,276 --> 00:25:19,196 Speaker 1: the guy that killed Billy Logan, and then boom. The 352 00:25:19,316 --> 00:25:23,396 Speaker 1: prosecutors had what they needed. In December of nineteen seventy six, 353 00:25:23,716 --> 00:25:27,276 Speaker 1: a grand jury indicted Harry Alaman. It was big news. 354 00:25:27,756 --> 00:25:31,236 Speaker 1: The Chicago Daily News reported that the mob had assassinated 355 00:25:31,316 --> 00:25:34,836 Speaker 1: over one thousand people since the nineteen twenties, and this 356 00:25:34,956 --> 00:25:37,556 Speaker 1: was one of the only times a hitman had ever 357 00:25:37,636 --> 00:25:43,476 Speaker 1: been indicted. Robert Lowe, the neighbor, agreed to testify, as 358 00:25:43,476 --> 00:25:46,956 Speaker 1: did the accomplice. The getaway driver. Aunt Betty, said she'd 359 00:25:46,956 --> 00:25:50,236 Speaker 1: testified two she'd talked about her brother and the night 360 00:25:50,276 --> 00:25:54,316 Speaker 1: that he'd been killed. But Betty's niece Johanna says her 361 00:25:54,316 --> 00:25:59,756 Speaker 1: whole family was spooked. Everybody knew what the mob was 362 00:25:59,796 --> 00:26:06,876 Speaker 1: capable of, and for us, we were We had playing 363 00:26:06,876 --> 00:26:08,836 Speaker 1: clothes men sitting in front of our house that were 364 00:26:08,836 --> 00:26:11,196 Speaker 1: taking now blason plate numbers of people that were coming 365 00:26:11,236 --> 00:26:13,156 Speaker 1: to our house. They were trying to make sure who 366 00:26:13,236 --> 00:26:16,716 Speaker 1: was who. We even had him following us to school 367 00:26:17,116 --> 00:26:20,676 Speaker 1: to make sure we were okay. The police. The police. Yeah, 368 00:26:20,716 --> 00:26:24,316 Speaker 1: it sounds pretty scary. It was very scary. Yeah. And 369 00:26:24,396 --> 00:26:27,796 Speaker 1: the guy who supposedly killed her uncle, Harry Aliman, he 370 00:26:27,876 --> 00:26:32,036 Speaker 1: seemed pretty scary too. In a bizarre twist, Harry was 371 00:26:32,116 --> 00:26:36,116 Speaker 1: actually a distant relative of Billy, the victim. Billy had 372 00:26:36,196 --> 00:26:40,476 Speaker 1: married Harry's second cousin, which didn't raise too many eyebrows 373 00:26:40,516 --> 00:26:44,756 Speaker 1: in this case, because well back then, in many Chicago neighborhoods, 374 00:26:44,796 --> 00:26:49,316 Speaker 1: everyone seemed to be related somehow. In any case, Harry's 375 00:26:49,356 --> 00:26:53,276 Speaker 1: story was now all over the papers. One headline heralded 376 00:26:53,396 --> 00:26:57,236 Speaker 1: him as a modern day al Capone. In another article, 377 00:26:57,516 --> 00:27:02,396 Speaker 1: a prosecutor warned that Aliman quote kills with the professional 378 00:27:02,396 --> 00:27:06,796 Speaker 1: efficiency of an expert assassin. This was the guy the 379 00:27:06,876 --> 00:27:10,516 Speaker 1: mob wanted Bob Cooley to save, the guy who's trial 380 00:27:10,756 --> 00:27:18,796 Speaker 1: Bob was going to fix it. Turns out there were 381 00:27:18,836 --> 00:27:22,676 Speaker 1: many facets to the so called expert assassin and the 382 00:27:22,716 --> 00:27:25,916 Speaker 1: people I talked to, people who knew Harry from back 383 00:27:25,956 --> 00:27:29,316 Speaker 1: in the day, they all seem to remember a different man. 384 00:27:31,316 --> 00:27:33,676 Speaker 1: If you ever watched the movie Scarface, kind of reminds 385 00:27:33,676 --> 00:27:35,996 Speaker 1: you of the guy walks up behind Scarface with shotgun 386 00:27:35,996 --> 00:27:40,476 Speaker 1: at the end. He's like a Bantam rooster. He's slender, 387 00:27:40,796 --> 00:27:46,276 Speaker 1: he's got thick wavy hair, sunglasses, a ladies man, a 388 00:27:46,396 --> 00:27:51,316 Speaker 1: good looker, dashing kind of character, and was also the 389 00:27:51,476 --> 00:27:53,676 Speaker 1: kind of guy who could make them. Aron R. Sauce 390 00:27:54,516 --> 00:28:00,236 Speaker 1: on Sundays. He looks like somebody who if you rubbed 391 00:28:00,276 --> 00:28:02,836 Speaker 1: up against him, you sort of believe, because he's the 392 00:28:02,916 --> 00:28:08,756 Speaker 1: razor's edge. But perhaps the most interesting take that I 393 00:28:08,836 --> 00:28:12,396 Speaker 1: heard on Harry came from this next person. Okay, my 394 00:28:12,476 --> 00:28:16,076 Speaker 1: name is Frankie for Leano. My father was Harry Alaman, 395 00:28:17,196 --> 00:28:22,916 Speaker 1: and basically he was involved. How do I say that? 396 00:28:22,956 --> 00:28:28,156 Speaker 1: A part? This always gets me? Jake, Yeah, how do 397 00:28:28,236 --> 00:28:31,556 Speaker 1: I say it? He was involved in the organized crime. 398 00:28:32,236 --> 00:28:35,316 Speaker 1: Frankie's now in her sixties and all her life she's 399 00:28:35,316 --> 00:28:38,756 Speaker 1: been trying to explain who her father was. She actually 400 00:28:38,796 --> 00:28:41,916 Speaker 1: wrote a memoir about her dad called They Can't Hurt 401 00:28:41,996 --> 00:28:45,796 Speaker 1: Him Anymore. And as you can see, it's still not 402 00:28:45,916 --> 00:28:49,396 Speaker 1: easy for her to explain who he was, especially because 403 00:28:49,396 --> 00:28:52,356 Speaker 1: there were so many stories out there about him. When 404 00:28:52,396 --> 00:28:54,716 Speaker 1: you read about your dad and the papers, you know, 405 00:28:54,876 --> 00:28:57,636 Speaker 1: there's all kinds of stuff in there. Though sometimes will say, 406 00:28:57,756 --> 00:29:01,956 Speaker 1: you know, Harry Alaman the hitman, and it's what they say. 407 00:29:02,956 --> 00:29:05,356 Speaker 1: What was that like for you to hear people talk 408 00:29:05,396 --> 00:29:08,716 Speaker 1: about your dad that way? It was horrible, It was scary, 409 00:29:08,836 --> 00:29:13,756 Speaker 1: It is horrible. It was you just can't even picture it. 410 00:29:13,756 --> 00:29:17,116 Speaker 1: You're like it's not true, my dear, not my dear, 411 00:29:17,316 --> 00:29:21,196 Speaker 1: No way, no way. Frankie says that she grew up 412 00:29:21,236 --> 00:29:24,476 Speaker 1: thinking that her dad was just well, a great dad, 413 00:29:24,956 --> 00:29:27,596 Speaker 1: and by all accounts he was a good father. And 414 00:29:27,716 --> 00:29:30,796 Speaker 1: this is exactly what I'm talking about. Harry had so 415 00:29:30,836 --> 00:29:34,036 Speaker 1: many sides to him. For example, he was a painter, 416 00:29:34,516 --> 00:29:37,796 Speaker 1: and I don't mean a house painter, I mean an artiste. 417 00:29:38,236 --> 00:29:41,116 Speaker 1: He went to the Chicago Academy of Fine Arts. But 418 00:29:41,476 --> 00:29:43,836 Speaker 1: if you're thinking of some guy wearing a turtleneck and 419 00:29:43,916 --> 00:29:47,956 Speaker 1: a beret, think again. Harry liked to wear suits. Now. 420 00:29:47,956 --> 00:29:50,556 Speaker 1: He was on the shorter side, around five foot seven, 421 00:29:50,956 --> 00:29:53,836 Speaker 1: but tough as nails. People said he had a wicked 422 00:29:53,916 --> 00:29:57,116 Speaker 1: left hook that you never saw coming, hence his nickname 423 00:29:57,556 --> 00:30:01,036 Speaker 1: Harry the Hook. He was a Mexican Italian guy with 424 00:30:01,116 --> 00:30:05,876 Speaker 1: a Spanish last name that literally meant German. As you'll hear, 425 00:30:06,156 --> 00:30:08,716 Speaker 1: no one can even agree on how exactly to pronounce 426 00:30:08,756 --> 00:30:14,036 Speaker 1: his last name. So yeah, Harry was a riddle. The 427 00:30:14,116 --> 00:30:18,636 Speaker 1: Chicago Crime Commission estimates Harry killed eighteen people between nineteen 428 00:30:18,676 --> 00:30:26,836 Speaker 1: seventy one and nineteen seventy seven alone. But to Frankie 429 00:30:26,876 --> 00:30:30,956 Speaker 1: for Leano, Harry was a savior. You see, Frankie's biological 430 00:30:30,996 --> 00:30:34,076 Speaker 1: father died when she was very little. As a result, 431 00:30:34,156 --> 00:30:37,556 Speaker 1: Frankie's mom, Ruth, was suddenly a widow with four young 432 00:30:37,636 --> 00:30:41,356 Speaker 1: kids to feed, including Frankie. That's when Harry showed up. 433 00:30:41,596 --> 00:30:44,116 Speaker 1: Now he might think Harry would be scared off by 434 00:30:44,116 --> 00:30:47,676 Speaker 1: the widow with the whole brood of kids. Nope, Harry 435 00:30:47,756 --> 00:30:51,356 Speaker 1: began courting not just Ruth the mom, but the whole family. 436 00:30:51,876 --> 00:30:54,796 Speaker 1: It was almost like Harry wanted every one of them 437 00:30:54,876 --> 00:30:57,196 Speaker 1: to fall in love with him. He spent time with 438 00:30:57,236 --> 00:31:00,596 Speaker 1: the kids one on one, playing games, asking them questions, 439 00:31:00,956 --> 00:31:05,556 Speaker 1: taking them shopping. Yeah, he definitely want us over. He 440 00:31:05,716 --> 00:31:10,436 Speaker 1: knew what he was doing. He's really of Love's kids, 441 00:31:11,396 --> 00:31:14,036 Speaker 1: and he's got a lot of compassion, and he's got patience. 442 00:31:14,916 --> 00:31:18,236 Speaker 1: Oh my god, he has the best patience. When it 443 00:31:18,316 --> 00:31:22,516 Speaker 1: came time to propose, Harry asked Frankie for her permission, 444 00:31:22,796 --> 00:31:25,476 Speaker 1: even though she was like seven years old at the time. 445 00:31:26,396 --> 00:31:29,396 Speaker 1: He just basically said, you know, how would you feel 446 00:31:29,396 --> 00:31:33,116 Speaker 1: if I married mommy and we could all live together 447 00:31:33,236 --> 00:31:35,876 Speaker 1: in the same house, and I would be there all 448 00:31:35,876 --> 00:31:40,996 Speaker 1: the time, and we'd be a family, and we'd beat together. 449 00:31:41,796 --> 00:31:44,276 Speaker 1: We could do all these fun things and all my god, 450 00:31:44,396 --> 00:31:49,396 Speaker 1: I was so happy up until this moment. Frankie remembers 451 00:31:49,716 --> 00:31:52,236 Speaker 1: Harry intended to move to New York and become a 452 00:31:52,236 --> 00:31:56,276 Speaker 1: commercial artist. Now he shelved all that. Instead, he took 453 00:31:56,276 --> 00:31:59,356 Speaker 1: a job distributing a horse racing newsletter known as a 454 00:31:59,436 --> 00:32:02,676 Speaker 1: scratch sheet, and he took care of Frankie and her siblings, 455 00:32:02,996 --> 00:32:10,436 Speaker 1: provided for them, doated on them. There were moments when 456 00:32:10,596 --> 00:32:12,796 Speaker 1: Frankie got the sense that there was another side to 457 00:32:12,836 --> 00:32:15,836 Speaker 1: her dad. It became clearer to her the older she got. 458 00:32:16,396 --> 00:32:19,396 Speaker 1: Would be boyfriends would ask her, is your dad going 459 00:32:19,436 --> 00:32:22,556 Speaker 1: to come outside and blow my head off? His reputation 460 00:32:22,676 --> 00:32:25,796 Speaker 1: couldn't have made dating easy. By the time that she 461 00:32:25,956 --> 00:32:29,716 Speaker 1: was a teenager, Frankie did understand that her dad wasn't 462 00:32:29,756 --> 00:32:33,636 Speaker 1: just selling scratch sheets at the racetrack. Harry admitted to 463 00:32:33,676 --> 00:32:38,196 Speaker 1: her that he collected on something called juice loans. He said, 464 00:32:38,796 --> 00:32:42,116 Speaker 1: you know, there's people in this world that need help. 465 00:32:42,796 --> 00:32:47,156 Speaker 1: Some people might need it because family member sick, they 466 00:32:47,196 --> 00:32:49,876 Speaker 1: need money for a hospital bill, they can't pay their 467 00:32:49,876 --> 00:32:52,076 Speaker 1: own runts, they can't afford to take care of their kids. 468 00:32:52,996 --> 00:32:56,116 Speaker 1: There's people like that, and if they need something, You 469 00:32:56,156 --> 00:32:57,676 Speaker 1: help them out and they pay you back a little 470 00:32:57,676 --> 00:33:00,236 Speaker 1: bit more. And then there's people that want to take 471 00:33:00,276 --> 00:33:03,156 Speaker 1: your money, and after they take your money, they don't 472 00:33:03,156 --> 00:33:06,116 Speaker 1: want to pay you back. So there's those that will, 473 00:33:06,196 --> 00:33:09,516 Speaker 1: and there's those the adults. What did he say, those 474 00:33:09,516 --> 00:33:13,396 Speaker 1: that don't you get it? You get you got to 475 00:33:13,396 --> 00:33:16,396 Speaker 1: collect the money. I didn't say anything about killing him. 476 00:33:16,396 --> 00:33:20,316 Speaker 1: They beat him up or whatever. So yeah, maybe Dad 477 00:33:20,316 --> 00:33:23,716 Speaker 1: had to knock people around occasionally, but these were people 478 00:33:23,796 --> 00:33:27,236 Speaker 1: who had it coming. And on the whole, Frankie still 479 00:33:27,276 --> 00:33:29,996 Speaker 1: believed he was a good guy. He was a family man. 480 00:33:30,076 --> 00:33:32,636 Speaker 1: He didn't care a rating, go out drinking, not a 481 00:33:32,716 --> 00:33:37,356 Speaker 1: d answer. He was a family man. So I don't 482 00:33:37,396 --> 00:33:39,596 Speaker 1: know where he came here at the time to go 483 00:33:39,676 --> 00:33:43,996 Speaker 1: out killing people. I just don't know that. I don't 484 00:33:44,036 --> 00:33:46,916 Speaker 1: know this beast of a man that they described, you know, 485 00:33:47,716 --> 00:33:50,836 Speaker 1: this other side of her father, this beast of a man. 486 00:33:51,356 --> 00:33:54,796 Speaker 1: Frankie didn't really hear about this until nineteen seventy six, 487 00:33:55,076 --> 00:33:59,316 Speaker 1: the year he was indicted. It was that year that 488 00:33:59,396 --> 00:34:02,236 Speaker 1: Harry called the whole family together for a meeting to 489 00:34:02,316 --> 00:34:05,236 Speaker 1: prepare them for what was to come. He set us 490 00:34:05,276 --> 00:34:09,676 Speaker 1: down at the table. My brothers, my sister, my mom, 491 00:34:09,876 --> 00:34:11,956 Speaker 1: and when he stayed us down as a family, and 492 00:34:12,036 --> 00:34:13,516 Speaker 1: he said, you're going to hear a lot of bad 493 00:34:13,556 --> 00:34:16,276 Speaker 1: things about me. And we're like, what are you talking about? 494 00:34:17,196 --> 00:34:20,956 Speaker 1: And he's like, they're coming after me for something I 495 00:34:20,996 --> 00:34:24,276 Speaker 1: didn't do. We're like, who's coming in after you? What's 496 00:34:24,276 --> 00:34:28,116 Speaker 1: going on? Harry began to explain that he was about 497 00:34:28,196 --> 00:34:31,196 Speaker 1: to be indicted for the murder of Billy Logan, and 498 00:34:31,276 --> 00:34:34,636 Speaker 1: he told them what to expect at trial. They're going 499 00:34:34,676 --> 00:34:37,516 Speaker 1: to stay on private organized crime and you're going to 500 00:34:37,596 --> 00:34:41,356 Speaker 1: hear things about me that you will be scared or 501 00:34:41,396 --> 00:34:44,756 Speaker 1: you will be afraid. And I want you to understand 502 00:34:44,756 --> 00:34:48,356 Speaker 1: what's going on, And like, what do you mean outfit 503 00:34:48,516 --> 00:34:52,436 Speaker 1: and murder? What are you talking about? You know? And 504 00:34:52,476 --> 00:34:56,116 Speaker 1: then he explained the story of what they were actually 505 00:34:56,156 --> 00:34:58,756 Speaker 1: going to come after him for, and he just said 506 00:34:58,876 --> 00:35:04,716 Speaker 1: it's for something I didn't do, and that wasn't all. 507 00:35:04,996 --> 00:35:07,556 Speaker 1: Harry also told them that he would be hiring protection 508 00:35:07,636 --> 00:35:11,156 Speaker 1: for them, guards, So we had bodyguards in the house. 509 00:35:12,476 --> 00:35:15,716 Speaker 1: Like these big, big guys sit sitting in or gets 510 00:35:15,876 --> 00:35:18,036 Speaker 1: standing up over us and I'm like, yeah, what is this. 511 00:35:19,356 --> 00:35:21,676 Speaker 1: Don't be afraid. Their bodyguards are here to protect us. 512 00:35:22,476 --> 00:35:25,516 Speaker 1: I said, what do we need protection from? He said, 513 00:35:25,556 --> 00:35:30,436 Speaker 1: from the government. They are trying to frame me. This 514 00:35:30,556 --> 00:35:34,476 Speaker 1: is a setup. That's how Harry explained it. The problem 515 00:35:34,516 --> 00:35:38,156 Speaker 1: for Harry was there were two eyewitnesses, the accomplice who 516 00:35:38,156 --> 00:35:41,276 Speaker 1: claimed he'd helped Harry do it, and Robert Lowe, who'd 517 00:35:41,276 --> 00:35:45,356 Speaker 1: stumbled upon the murderer while out walking his dog. In theory, 518 00:35:45,636 --> 00:35:48,516 Speaker 1: their testimony would be heard in a courtroom and decided 519 00:35:48,596 --> 00:35:52,876 Speaker 1: upon fair and square, but the entire Logan family was 520 00:35:52,956 --> 00:35:58,076 Speaker 1: nervous and even a bit skeptical that justice would be served. Johanna, 521 00:35:58,236 --> 00:36:01,436 Speaker 1: the niece of the victim, remembers the whole family talking 522 00:36:01,476 --> 00:36:06,516 Speaker 1: about this, and my grandpa had called my uncle and said, 523 00:36:06,556 --> 00:36:10,356 Speaker 1: you know how this works in Chicago. Don't be surprised 524 00:36:10,396 --> 00:36:13,556 Speaker 1: if he's found not guilty. You know how this works 525 00:36:13,556 --> 00:36:17,036 Speaker 1: in Chicago, meaning someone might try to fix the case, 526 00:36:17,476 --> 00:36:21,756 Speaker 1: someone like Bob Cooley. And in fact, in early nineteen 527 00:36:21,796 --> 00:36:25,116 Speaker 1: seventy seven, as both sides prepared for this murder trial, 528 00:36:25,596 --> 00:36:29,836 Speaker 1: Bob was making preparations of his own. Remember, before he 529 00:36:29,876 --> 00:36:33,396 Speaker 1: agreed to fix this case, Bob wanted to review the facts. 530 00:36:34,276 --> 00:36:37,636 Speaker 1: What struck him immediately was the lack of physical evidence 531 00:36:37,756 --> 00:36:41,316 Speaker 1: tying Harry to the crime. But Bob also paid special 532 00:36:41,316 --> 00:36:45,396 Speaker 1: attention to the two eyewitnesses. He wasn't overly impressed with 533 00:36:45,476 --> 00:36:48,476 Speaker 1: either of them. Robert the neighbor had talked to the 534 00:36:48,476 --> 00:36:51,356 Speaker 1: police a few times, and there'd been a few small 535 00:36:51,436 --> 00:36:55,236 Speaker 1: inconsistencies in what he'd told them. And as for Louis 536 00:36:55,556 --> 00:36:58,596 Speaker 1: the getaway driver, well, he was serving a ten year 537 00:36:58,636 --> 00:37:02,276 Speaker 1: federal sentence and had struck a deal with prosecutors, so 538 00:37:02,676 --> 00:37:06,356 Speaker 1: arguably he had his own agenda. As Bob saw it, 539 00:37:06,556 --> 00:37:10,276 Speaker 1: there was plenty of room for reasonable doubt, plenty for 540 00:37:10,316 --> 00:37:13,636 Speaker 1: a judge to hang his hat on the judge will 541 00:37:13,836 --> 00:37:16,236 Speaker 1: hear in the evidence, and the judge will say not guilty, 542 00:37:16,316 --> 00:37:19,036 Speaker 1: as any judge Wood, But did you have any doubt 543 00:37:19,076 --> 00:37:23,036 Speaker 1: in your mind that Harry Alliman pulled the trigger? Oh? 544 00:37:23,036 --> 00:37:25,596 Speaker 1: I know, I know he did. I was certain he did. 545 00:37:26,116 --> 00:37:28,956 Speaker 1: He had no doubt in his mind that Harry had 546 00:37:28,996 --> 00:37:31,596 Speaker 1: done it. But the case was weak enough that he 547 00:37:31,636 --> 00:37:33,516 Speaker 1: felt he could fix it and he could tell a 548 00:37:33,636 --> 00:37:37,076 Speaker 1: judge not to worry. And there was a final factor 549 00:37:37,156 --> 00:37:40,316 Speaker 1: that Bob says weighed into his decision about whether or 550 00:37:40,356 --> 00:37:42,996 Speaker 1: not to fix this case, and it involved the question 551 00:37:43,036 --> 00:37:46,716 Speaker 1: of motive and what type of murder this was. There 552 00:37:46,796 --> 00:37:50,116 Speaker 1: was no perfectly clear explanation as to why Harry would 553 00:37:50,116 --> 00:37:53,356 Speaker 1: have murdered Billy Logan. The local papers were reporting that 554 00:37:53,396 --> 00:37:55,876 Speaker 1: Billy was murdered because he stood up to the mob. 555 00:37:56,236 --> 00:38:00,596 Speaker 1: If you remember, Billy was a teamster. Supposedly, the mob 556 00:38:00,596 --> 00:38:03,836 Speaker 1: had asked him to cooperate in a robbery scheme and 557 00:38:03,996 --> 00:38:07,876 Speaker 1: Billy had said no. All of this, Bob says, led 558 00:38:07,916 --> 00:38:10,716 Speaker 1: him to believe that this was a routine mob murder, 559 00:38:10,996 --> 00:38:14,796 Speaker 1: which seems to have eased his conscience, and apparently this 560 00:38:14,956 --> 00:38:18,196 Speaker 1: was the final deciding factor, convincing him that yes, he 561 00:38:18,276 --> 00:38:21,516 Speaker 1: could and should fix this case. I thought it was 562 00:38:21,556 --> 00:38:25,156 Speaker 1: just a mob killing mob guys killing mob guys, and 563 00:38:25,236 --> 00:38:27,116 Speaker 1: this one on all the time back there. In fact, 564 00:38:27,196 --> 00:38:31,036 Speaker 1: I knew like fifty people that we're hitmen in Chicago. 565 00:38:31,676 --> 00:38:34,116 Speaker 1: I agreed to fix the case because I thought it 566 00:38:34,156 --> 00:38:36,556 Speaker 1: was again, it was just one mob guy killing another 567 00:38:36,596 --> 00:38:39,476 Speaker 1: mob guy. What's the big deal, because that's part of 568 00:38:39,476 --> 00:38:41,996 Speaker 1: your code. Two mob guys killing each other doesn't bother you, 569 00:38:42,036 --> 00:38:45,716 Speaker 1: but an innocent guy dying does. Yes, Absolutely, it was 570 00:38:45,756 --> 00:38:48,116 Speaker 1: just it was the way I live. I mean this 571 00:38:48,316 --> 00:38:50,836 Speaker 1: is my life. When you set code, I mean using 572 00:38:50,876 --> 00:38:52,956 Speaker 1: that word like it's some kind of a magical thing. 573 00:38:53,036 --> 00:38:56,236 Speaker 1: This was my nature. Bob says he would never, for example, 574 00:38:56,356 --> 00:38:59,916 Speaker 1: represent a pedophile. He also prided himself as someone who 575 00:38:59,996 --> 00:39:04,036 Speaker 1: stood up to bullies, but when it came to mob murders, 576 00:39:04,036 --> 00:39:08,836 Speaker 1: he was inclined to look the other way. I didn't 577 00:39:08,916 --> 00:39:11,396 Speaker 1: really get his logic here, to be honest, it seems 578 00:39:11,436 --> 00:39:14,076 Speaker 1: so callous, but it did help me to get some 579 00:39:14,116 --> 00:39:18,236 Speaker 1: more context. I spoke to a federal prosecutor who specialized 580 00:39:18,236 --> 00:39:21,236 Speaker 1: in the mob back in the seventies in Chicago, and 581 00:39:21,316 --> 00:39:24,076 Speaker 1: he told me, back then, it seemed like there was 582 00:39:24,116 --> 00:39:27,956 Speaker 1: a mob killing almost every single week. These murders were 583 00:39:27,956 --> 00:39:30,396 Speaker 1: just part of the rhythm of life in Chicago back then, 584 00:39:30,836 --> 00:39:34,116 Speaker 1: kind of like wake up, eat breakfast, go to work, 585 00:39:34,396 --> 00:39:36,796 Speaker 1: catch the score on the Cubs game, read about who 586 00:39:36,796 --> 00:39:40,916 Speaker 1: got whacked, go to sleep, repeat, you know, like a 587 00:39:41,076 --> 00:39:45,796 Speaker 1: dark mafioso version of Groundhog Day. And typically no one 588 00:39:45,876 --> 00:39:50,316 Speaker 1: was ever convicted. Witnesses either vanished or refused to cooperate, 589 00:39:52,756 --> 00:39:55,716 Speaker 1: But there also seemed to be an implicit understanding that 590 00:39:55,836 --> 00:39:59,916 Speaker 1: mob guys just killed each other always had always would, 591 00:40:00,196 --> 00:40:02,756 Speaker 1: and there was no point in referring any of it. 592 00:40:02,956 --> 00:40:06,956 Speaker 1: Kind of crazy, perhaps, but this was a prevailing sentiment 593 00:40:06,996 --> 00:40:09,716 Speaker 1: at the time, and when I forced myself to consider 594 00:40:09,756 --> 00:40:13,076 Speaker 1: this mindset, I guess I began to understand how Bob 595 00:40:13,156 --> 00:40:16,756 Speaker 1: could get so callous about it all. But even if 596 00:40:16,796 --> 00:40:20,276 Speaker 1: you buy into the morality of this logic, the problem 597 00:40:20,396 --> 00:40:23,636 Speaker 1: was there was no evidence that Billy Logan was a mobster. 598 00:40:24,276 --> 00:40:27,596 Speaker 1: Sure he worked for the Teamsters, and yes, the Teamsters 599 00:40:27,636 --> 00:40:30,596 Speaker 1: were known to do business with the mob but it 600 00:40:30,676 --> 00:40:33,876 Speaker 1: was a big stretch to classify Billy Logan himself as 601 00:40:33,876 --> 00:40:38,036 Speaker 1: a mobster. Apparently, however, it was a stretch that Bob 602 00:40:38,116 --> 00:40:44,636 Speaker 1: was comfortable making when justifying his actions. Bob could be 603 00:40:44,716 --> 00:40:48,036 Speaker 1: quite agile. In fact, as I came to know him better, 604 00:40:48,556 --> 00:40:50,956 Speaker 1: I began to see him as a kind of ethical 605 00:40:50,996 --> 00:40:55,196 Speaker 1: acrobat who could bend over backwards and contort himself until 606 00:40:55,236 --> 00:40:59,476 Speaker 1: his worldview made perfect sense. What struck me above all 607 00:40:59,476 --> 00:41:02,316 Speaker 1: else was how important it was for Bob to see 608 00:41:02,396 --> 00:41:07,476 Speaker 1: himself as a fundamentally good person. The Lord himself knows 609 00:41:07,516 --> 00:41:09,836 Speaker 1: what I've done and what I haven't done. There's no 610 00:41:09,916 --> 00:41:12,036 Speaker 1: question in my mind he's protecting me I should have 611 00:41:12,076 --> 00:41:15,236 Speaker 1: been killed at half a dozen times. I did what 612 00:41:15,356 --> 00:41:18,516 Speaker 1: I did, and the big guy upstairs knows what I did. 613 00:41:18,636 --> 00:41:20,156 Speaker 1: I don't think he's going to put me in hell 614 00:41:20,236 --> 00:41:23,356 Speaker 1: for it. I don't think so. Part of this certainty 615 00:41:23,356 --> 00:41:26,276 Speaker 1: came from, of all things, a charm that he wore 616 00:41:26,276 --> 00:41:28,996 Speaker 1: around his neck. I noticed it a few times when 617 00:41:29,036 --> 00:41:32,676 Speaker 1: we chatted on zoom. It was a scapular, a religious ornament, 618 00:41:33,116 --> 00:41:36,276 Speaker 1: little gold cross that his mother had given him. He 619 00:41:36,356 --> 00:41:38,756 Speaker 1: never took it off. She told him it would keep 620 00:41:38,796 --> 00:41:42,876 Speaker 1: him safe, That's what she said. But I don't push 621 00:41:42,876 --> 00:41:45,636 Speaker 1: it as I say, I don't push it by That's 622 00:41:45,636 --> 00:41:48,356 Speaker 1: why I've never murdered anybody. I've been tempted to a 623 00:41:48,396 --> 00:41:50,956 Speaker 1: couple of times when people were going to kill me, 624 00:41:51,196 --> 00:41:53,876 Speaker 1: but that's the only reason I never did that. I'm 625 00:41:53,876 --> 00:41:56,836 Speaker 1: curious what else, like in the line that you drawn 626 00:41:56,836 --> 00:42:00,116 Speaker 1: the things you would never do murdering someone. What else 627 00:42:00,596 --> 00:42:03,156 Speaker 1: I would never get involved in cases where I'm cheating 628 00:42:03,236 --> 00:42:07,156 Speaker 1: people or stealing their business or destroying lives. I just 629 00:42:07,156 --> 00:42:10,716 Speaker 1: wouldn't do it. Do you consider bribes you've placed, You 630 00:42:10,876 --> 00:42:13,276 Speaker 1: put that in the tallly of sins you've committed. When 631 00:42:13,276 --> 00:42:16,156 Speaker 1: you look at your life on a whole, to be 632 00:42:16,316 --> 00:42:19,916 Speaker 1: very honest, No, I mean, that's not a sin. That's 633 00:42:19,916 --> 00:42:21,636 Speaker 1: not in the book written as a sin. It was. 634 00:42:21,676 --> 00:42:23,716 Speaker 1: It's something that's wrong in the eyes of the law, 635 00:42:23,876 --> 00:42:26,316 Speaker 1: no question about that. And there's no question that's wrong. 636 00:42:27,076 --> 00:42:30,636 Speaker 1: I've done things that the law says are illegal. But 637 00:42:31,076 --> 00:42:34,356 Speaker 1: you know, but that's you know, that's man's law, a 638 00:42:34,476 --> 00:42:38,716 Speaker 1: violation of man's law, not a sin against God. That's 639 00:42:38,716 --> 00:42:42,236 Speaker 1: how Bob thought about it, how he rationalized placing a bribe, 640 00:42:42,836 --> 00:42:45,916 Speaker 1: even a bribe in a murder case, a very big 641 00:42:45,996 --> 00:42:53,956 Speaker 1: murder case. The real trick, now, says Bob, was finding 642 00:42:53,996 --> 00:42:57,276 Speaker 1: the right judge, not an easy task. This would be 643 00:42:57,316 --> 00:43:00,476 Speaker 1: a big trial, all over the headlines, and so it 644 00:43:00,516 --> 00:43:05,396 Speaker 1: was crucial to find someone whose credentials were unimpeachable, someone 645 00:43:05,436 --> 00:43:08,676 Speaker 1: who no one whatever think of is being corrupt. But 646 00:43:08,756 --> 00:43:11,996 Speaker 1: it was just a matter of optics. Bob needed a 647 00:43:12,076 --> 00:43:14,756 Speaker 1: judge who would come through for him. He couldn't risk 648 00:43:14,836 --> 00:43:17,196 Speaker 1: having a judge that took the bribe and then changed 649 00:43:17,196 --> 00:43:22,276 Speaker 1: his mind, because in the end, Bob was responsible. Bob 650 00:43:22,356 --> 00:43:25,156 Speaker 1: was the one on the hook. Pat Marcy, the Mob's 651 00:43:25,196 --> 00:43:28,076 Speaker 1: political czar, had made it very clear to Bob that 652 00:43:28,196 --> 00:43:31,836 Speaker 1: he'd better come through for them. But if Bob pulled 653 00:43:31,876 --> 00:43:35,076 Speaker 1: this off, he would be the man, the guy who 654 00:43:35,116 --> 00:43:39,996 Speaker 1: could do anything. All of this meant right now, Bob 655 00:43:40,076 --> 00:43:43,716 Speaker 1: needed to find the exact right judge, and he had 656 00:43:43,796 --> 00:43:57,036 Speaker 1: the perfect person in mind. Next time on deep Cover, 657 00:43:58,076 --> 00:44:00,476 Speaker 1: I said, you know, yes, I said I would handle 658 00:44:00,636 --> 00:44:04,316 Speaker 1: the case. And that's when he said, well, you realize, 659 00:44:04,756 --> 00:44:08,476 Speaker 1: if there's a problem, you're going to have a problem problem. 660 00:44:08,476 --> 00:44:10,556 Speaker 1: I know what that means. You get an extra hole 661 00:44:10,636 --> 00:44:37,236 Speaker 1: in your head. Deep Cover is produced by Jacob Smith 662 00:44:37,356 --> 00:44:41,276 Speaker 1: and Amy Gaines and edited by Karen Shakurge. Our senior 663 00:44:41,436 --> 00:44:44,676 Speaker 1: editor is Jan Guera. Original music and our theme was 664 00:44:44,676 --> 00:44:47,996 Speaker 1: composed by Luis Gara and Fawn Williams is our engineer. 665 00:44:48,396 --> 00:44:50,916 Speaker 1: Our art this season was drawn by Cheryl Cook and 666 00:44:51,036 --> 00:44:54,956 Speaker 1: designed by Sean Karney. Mia Lobell is our executive producer. 667 00:44:55,516 --> 00:45:00,156 Speaker 1: Special thanks to Heather Fain, John Schnars, Carlie mcgliori, Maya Kanig, 668 00:45:00,436 --> 00:45:06,396 Speaker 1: Christina Sullivan, Eric Sandler, Mary Beth Smith, Brant Haynes, Maggie Taylor, Nicolemarano, 669 00:45:06,676 --> 00:45:11,676 Speaker 1: Megan Larson, Royston Beserve, Lucy Sullivan, Edith ru Solo, Riley Sullivan, 670 00:45:11,876 --> 00:45:17,276 Speaker 1: Jason Gambrel, Martin Gonzalez, and Jacob Weisberg. I'm Jake Halpert. 671 00:46:00,836 --> 00:46:03,436 Speaker 1: If you want to read more about this murder trial 672 00:46:03,556 --> 00:46:07,156 Speaker 1: and the life of Robert Lowe, check out Everybody Pays 673 00:46:07,556 --> 00:46:12,556 Speaker 1: by Maurice Posley and Rick Cogan. Subscribe to Pushkin Plus 674 00:46:12,556 --> 00:46:14,756 Speaker 1: and you can binge the rest of the season right 675 00:46:14,796 --> 00:46:18,276 Speaker 1: now adds free. Find Pushkin Plus on the deep Cover 676 00:46:18,356 --> 00:46:23,036 Speaker 1: show page in Apple Podcasts or at pushkin dot fm. 677 00:46:23,076 --> 00:46:27,196 Speaker 1: To find more Pushkin podcasts, listen on the iHeartRadio app, 678 00:46:27,516 --> 00:46:31,116 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.