Speaker 1: Hey, everybody, Robert Evans here, and I wanted to let
Speaker 1: you know this is a compiletion episode. So every episode
Speaker 1: of the week that just happened is here in one
Speaker 1: convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to
Speaker 1: listen to in a long stretch if you want. If
Speaker 1: you've been listening to the episodes every day this week,
Speaker 1: there's gonna be nothing new here for you, but you
Speaker 1: can make your own decisions. Welcome back to it could
Speaker 1: happen here, a podcast about things falling apart. This week
Speaker 1: we have an episode that is in the vein of
Speaker 1: what my co host Garrison Davis and I like to
Speaker 1: call Here's a problem, goodbye episodes. UH. And the problem
Speaker 1: is that there has been a massive and as far
Speaker 1: as I can tell, unprecedented wave of swatting incidents against
Speaker 1: public schools and multiple states over the last couple of weeks. UH.
Speaker 1: And here with me to talk about that is the
Speaker 1: person who noticed it first, UH, anti fascist researcher UH
Speaker 1: and community meeting note taker Molly Conjure. Molly, you are
Speaker 1: socialist dog Mom on Twitter, where you are a sensation
Speaker 1: with your delightful little pups um and also one of
Speaker 1: the best researchers that I know in the biz. Welcome
Speaker 1: to the show. Great to be here. So yeah, you
Speaker 1: want to start. Yeah. So this has been going on,
Speaker 1: I guess for two weeks. There's been this wave of
Speaker 1: swattings against schools across the country. UM, and I didn't
Speaker 1: notice it until it happened here. Um. We had to
Speaker 1: restart this so many times. I feel like it's great though,
Speaker 1: you should because it happened here. I love it. We
Speaker 1: can say the name of the show and we finally
Speaker 1: get to do it. Yeah, but you know, you know,
Speaker 1: my attention is primarily local. So on Monday, when every
Speaker 1: cop in the region was dispatched to Charlttesville High School
Speaker 1: because there was a false report of an active shooter
Speaker 1: inside the school, Um, it was quickly determined to be
Speaker 1: a squatting right, so they dispatched everybody. They locked the
Speaker 1: school down, they cleared the classrooms with guns. You know,
Speaker 1: kids reported being terrified of you know, because it was
Speaker 1: happy to them. They were just enjoying, you know, an
Speaker 1: afternoon in high school and all of a sudden, there's
Speaker 1: a man with a rifle in their classroom. Um, And
Speaker 1: it was quickly determined to have been a squatting, and
Speaker 1: I was listening over the scanner and by the time
Speaker 1: they were clearing the scene, that's what they were calling it.
Speaker 1: So the police identified it as a swatting, like through
Speaker 1: over the Yeah, and I think that may have they
Speaker 1: may have arrived at that conclusion more quickly because a
Speaker 1: dozen other districts had it at the same time. So
Speaker 1: across the state of Virginia, UM districts you know, from
Speaker 1: Hampton Roads to Arlington, Culpepper, Lynchburg, like tiny towns in
Speaker 1: Shenandoah County, like a town with four thousand people down
Speaker 1: you know, in the southern part of the state, we're
Speaker 1: hit almost exactly the same time with these hoax calls
Speaker 1: about you know, I gotta get somebody down to the
Speaker 1: school because there's somebody with a gun. Good lord. It's
Speaker 1: so you know, it happened all over the place. All
Speaker 1: of these schools were quickly cleared. No one was hurt,
Speaker 1: thank god. UM. But as we think, you know, as
Speaker 1: the news was coming in, I was picking, you know,
Speaker 1: picking through trying to find the districts where this was happening.
Speaker 1: And I was pulling up these news articles and it
Speaker 1: wasn't just us, and it wasn't just that day, so
Speaker 1: it's I think the earliest I can find in this
Speaker 1: rash was what is that two weeks ago in Texas?
Speaker 1: A bunch of districts in Texas were hit. Uh And
Speaker 1: the one in Houston I think is particularly grim because
Speaker 1: the caller, the caller said, you know, oh, ten students
Speaker 1: have already been shot there in the classroom. It's two
Speaker 1: guys with a rs and they gave this is one
Speaker 1: of the one of the ones that the best described
Speaker 1: in the media is that the caller gave a description
Speaker 1: of the two shooters. And that's what scares me, right,
Speaker 1: is that the cops show up with a description in mind,
Speaker 1: they're going to act with extreme prejudice if they see
Speaker 1: someone who fits that description. There's a Hispanic guy in
Speaker 1: the parking lot that you know, it could be a risk. Well,
Speaker 1: and that's that's the first one. Like when I shared
Speaker 1: your early posts on this, people from Houston started showing
Speaker 1: up and saying like, hey, you know, we had something
Speaker 1: like this hit a couple of weeks go, and it
Speaker 1: sounds like it's the same thing. And these are I mean,
Speaker 1: like number one, the scale of this, it feels unlikely
Speaker 1: that at some level. I know there's there's certainly possible,
Speaker 1: an extreme likelihood that some of these are copycats, some
Speaker 1: of these are people falling in. But the sheer number
Speaker 1: of them makes it seems it's hard to believe that
Speaker 1: this would all be unrelated, all of these calls would
Speaker 1: be unrelated to each other. I think, you know, I
Speaker 1: don't know what the background level of normal slottings is,
Speaker 1: right like, I'm sure to a certain degree this is
Speaker 1: happening somewhere all the time. You know, people are saying, oh,
Speaker 1: it's just kids who don't want to take tests. Yeah,
Speaker 1: fifteen schools in Minnesota where hit simultaneously yesterday. This isn't
Speaker 1: kids who don't want to take that right simultaneously, so
Speaker 1: many schools, And it's there is a point there, which is,
Speaker 1: you know, because people when I started sharing this and stuff,
Speaker 1: people like, well, what are we supposed to do? And
Speaker 1: the first thing that occurs to me is actually not
Speaker 1: a preventative measure, but is purely just like, well, we
Speaker 1: should probably have some sort of least at a state
Speaker 1: level system in every state for letting people know how
Speaker 1: many fake swatting attempts agat schools are happening, How many
Speaker 1: like false reports of mass shootings at schools occur like
Speaker 1: it would be because otherwise we can't tell if this
Speaker 1: is rising above the level of background. I think it's
Speaker 1: clear this is because neither of us can think of
Speaker 1: a time when there were this many in such a
Speaker 1: short period of time. But dozens a day, dozens a day,
Speaker 1: there should be some method of keeping track of that
Speaker 1: because it is. I thought, that's a lesson of nine
Speaker 1: eleven rights that don't have inter agency communication. Like you know,
Speaker 1: on Monday, when it was hitting all these schools in Virginia,
Speaker 1: some of the early reports were, you know, quotes from
Speaker 1: local authorities saying we talked to the state police and
Speaker 1: this happened to to other people. It's like, well, I've
Speaker 1: already found ten other reports. Did the state police know
Speaker 1: about these? Yeah? And it's it's this is um. Obviously
Speaker 1: none of this is as bad as a single actual
Speaker 1: mass shooting at a school. But this isn't like nothing either.
Speaker 1: It's not like you you file a false report about,
Speaker 1: I don't know, a break in and the cops drive
Speaker 1: around a neighborhood for a while, like this is kids
Speaker 1: getting guns pointed in their faces. This is children thinking
Speaker 1: that like their friends have been massacred. This is like
Speaker 1: parents thinking their kids might be dead. This is this.
Speaker 1: This is an act of violence, like doing this as
Speaker 1: an act of violence and it ripples. Right, the effects
Speaker 1: of this are are compound and unfathomable. You know, I
Speaker 1: heard from friends in the community saying, you know, I
Speaker 1: got a text from my thirteen year old son saying,
Speaker 1: I don't know what's happening, but I love you. And
Speaker 1: even if, even if you know, thirty minutes later, the
Speaker 1: dangerous passed and everyone knows it was a false alarm.
Speaker 1: For that thirty minutes, those parents thought, I thought that
Speaker 1: their kids weren't going to come home. And you know,
Speaker 1: it's a background fear the parents have every day. When
Speaker 1: they said that, but that's the text no parent wants
Speaker 1: to get right. You know, before we lost the recording earlier,
Speaker 1: I was telling you about a a surgeon here in Charletsville.
Speaker 1: She's a surgeon at EBA Hospital. So the hospital was
Speaker 1: alerted about a possible mass casualty incident so they could
Speaker 1: prepare their their operating rooms and swimming gets the mass
Speaker 1: casualty incident alert as she's scrubbing in for a scheduled surgery.
Speaker 1: So she has to walk into that, She has to
Speaker 1: walk into that o R without her phone knowing that
Speaker 1: her child's school, to her knowledge in that moment, has
Speaker 1: a mass shooter inside of it. And so she doesn't
Speaker 1: know if when she walks out of that o R
Speaker 1: are her children going to be in there. That's horrific.
Speaker 1: That's horrific. And also like that could get somebody killed.
Speaker 1: And this is nothing care. It would not be surprising
Speaker 1: if she was less able to properly provide care in
Speaker 1: that situation. That's just being a person. Um. So this
Speaker 1: is serious, very serious, and it um So yesterday a
Speaker 1: rash of them hit Minnesota, and some locals in Minnesota
Speaker 1: were saying that so one of the schools that was
Speaker 1: hit was East main Cato High School the day before,
Speaker 1: so the day before yesterday that at that high school,
Speaker 1: a student at that high school attempted suicide with a
Speaker 1: firearm in the parking lot. So kids came back to
Speaker 1: school the day after this. You know, the students survived
Speaker 1: in his hospitalized, but you know they're coming to school
Speaker 1: hopefully to you know, access counseling resources and deal with
Speaker 1: the fact that one of their classmates shot himself in
Speaker 1: the parking lot and suddenly they're sheltering in place and
Speaker 1: there's cops with guns. Just there's a baseline reality for
Speaker 1: these students every day that gun violence is present, and
Speaker 1: this is just cruel to them. One of the things
Speaker 1: that surprises me. We you and I you started what
Speaker 1: was it four days ago now, kind of reporting this
Speaker 1: on your Twitter, which is where you do. You're reporting
Speaker 1: on local news and the anti fascist reporting as well. Um,
Speaker 1: and so I started sharing your stuff and I we
Speaker 1: started chatting about doing an episode. And my suspicion, the
Speaker 1: thing I was expecting was that like, well, we'll probably
Speaker 1: get scooped on this, right, Like there's probably like vice
Speaker 1: or somebody is going to put out something because there's
Speaker 1: just there's too damn many of these. Um it's Thursday now,
Speaker 1: the started Monday. I still haven't seen any coverage of
Speaker 1: this as a as a wave of swattings, and I'm
Speaker 1: kind of surprised by at there's a few, Like you know, regionally,
Speaker 1: people are putting together and doing these little quick hits
Speaker 1: about like, oh, this happened in a dozen districts in
Speaker 1: our state. Yeah, but I'm not I'm not seeing anyone
Speaker 1: connect the dots nationally, and you know, and some of
Speaker 1: these local stories are saying the local authorities are talking
Speaker 1: to the FBI, but I don't know that there's a
Speaker 1: cohesive nationwide investigation into this as as a phenomenon. Regionally,
Speaker 1: there is some indication that, like these calls are connected.
Speaker 1: So I saw an article that just came out an
Speaker 1: hour ago in Minnesota that all of the Minnesota calls
Speaker 1: came from the same IP address. Ah, So this that's
Speaker 1: I mean, that's what that's the proof we're looking for though,
Speaker 1: that's the evidence we're looking for that, like there's a
Speaker 1: significant degree degree to which this stuff is is coordinated.
Speaker 1: And when I because this is something that since you
Speaker 1: started talking about it, every researcher I know who covers
Speaker 1: extremism has been talking about at least a little bit
Speaker 1: in like private conversation signal loops. And the thing that
Speaker 1: keeps coming up is like, is there some ship on
Speaker 1: Kiwi farms? Is there some ship on four chance? Is
Speaker 1: there some ship on like these these little spaces. I
Speaker 1: haven't seen anything nothing, So yeah, and you know, to
Speaker 1: some degree there is the possibility of social contagion, right,
Speaker 1: Like I found a few stories that don't fit the pattern.
Speaker 1: Specific cases like yesterday in Roanoke, a fourteen year old
Speaker 1: girl was arrested for making one of these threats. She
Speaker 1: didn't make all of them, she made this one. Did
Speaker 1: she do this with what she inspired to do? So?
Speaker 1: Because of this? Was it unrelated? It's hard to say.
Speaker 1: So this at some point, even if it did originate
Speaker 1: in one incubator, it breaks containment. And I'm I am
Speaker 1: certain that's part of the intent, right, Like when you
Speaker 1: do the benefit of if you're thinking about because again,
Speaker 1: we don't know who did this. We don't know what
Speaker 1: kind of ideology or whatever or why was behind it,
Speaker 1: but we know that a significant number of them like
Speaker 1: occurred from a single source, which means like something coordinated
Speaker 1: was happening at some stage of this. That's a reasonable
Speaker 1: conclusion to draw from the extent information um And I
Speaker 1: think it's just pure psychic terrorism, right because my first
Speaker 1: thought on Monday was, is this someone testing the fences?
Speaker 1: Is this someone timing response times? Is someone watching local
Speaker 1: news coverage to see what kind of equipment the police have?
Speaker 1: That doesn't make sense at this scale. This isn't how
Speaker 1: you would do that, because this is going to draw
Speaker 1: too much attention, right, and like, why would you want
Speaker 1: to know the you know, the police capabilities in Emporia, Virginia,
Speaker 1: which is just like three truck stops in high school.
Speaker 1: No offense to the beautiful town of Emporia of Virginia.
Speaker 1: It is Virginia's greatest speed trap. God bless them. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but like that, that theory immediately fell by the wayside
Speaker 1: for me because it doesn't make sense. But it is interesting.
Speaker 1: So I've been, you know, trying to compile follow ups
Speaker 1: on some of these reports because the initial reporting is
Speaker 1: vague and people use nine one one as shorthand sol
Speaker 1: They'll say a nine one one call, But was it
Speaker 1: actually a nine one one call? Because that makes a
Speaker 1: huge difference here dialing nine one one is you know,
Speaker 1: I'm not a genius about how technology works, but if
Speaker 1: I done INLINEE one here of my living room, it
Speaker 1: hits my closest emergency communications center, right, it's my local
Speaker 1: nine one one. If these calls are being made from
Speaker 1: out of state, it takes a high degree of technical
Speaker 1: ability to hit a dispatch center where you aren't. Yeah, right,
Speaker 1: so we know we're not dealing with someone who is
Speaker 1: capable of that Alternatively, we know perhaps that this person
Speaker 1: knows that making a false nine one one call is
Speaker 1: a separately prosecutable crime. Right, So like the articles that
Speaker 1: are specific will say that the call came in directly
Speaker 1: to police dispatch, or the call came in to the
Speaker 1: front desk at the sheriff's office. So these people know
Speaker 1: well enough how to contact the you know, the front
Speaker 1: desk at the police department and the name of a
Speaker 1: school that's nearby right there. It's not it's not so
Speaker 1: vague as as to just be dialing random police stations
Speaker 1: and saying go to the high school. And that also again,
Speaker 1: because we we've just mentioned, I haven't seen any evidence
Speaker 1: of this in the places you would expect if this
Speaker 1: was the way. It's a lot of these docks in
Speaker 1: campaigns have gone the way a lot of Kiwi farm
Speaker 1: stuff goes the way a lot of swatting happens, where
Speaker 1: like you have a shipload of people openly talking about
Speaker 1: and talking about bad things happening to a targeted person,
Speaker 1: and then some of those people do swattings. Right, there's
Speaker 1: no evidence of that, And the way in which it
Speaker 1: seems like the bulk of these have gone doesn't seem
Speaker 1: like the way it would happen if you were just
Speaker 1: kind of targeting someone in a public area and hoping
Speaker 1: that enough people made the decision independently to make these calls. Um.
Speaker 1: There's my other thought too, that you know, it's sort
Speaker 1: of a limpse of TikTok phenomenon, like they're targeting schools
Speaker 1: with you know, woke policies, CRT gender including they're not
Speaker 1: I mean, they get Lynchburg, Virginia, which is Jerry Folwell country.
Speaker 1: There's no demographic or political consistency to the district's being
Speaker 1: targeted well, and the right hasn't picked this up at all.
Speaker 1: I haven't seen any kind of like very no one,
Speaker 1: very few people seem to have at this point. So
Speaker 1: this is just such a h if I were, if
Speaker 1: I were to guess where this is going down, it's
Speaker 1: some some sort of communications platform where people have a
Speaker 1: degree of privacy. Um. And I don't know, if it's
Speaker 1: not testing the fences, which at this point it seems
Speaker 1: too widespread to be, then it may just be kind
Speaker 1: of pure. I mean, one thing that occurs to me
Speaker 1: is just like there's the pure accelerationist of value of
Speaker 1: of setting up this wave and hoping that that the
Speaker 1: copycat effect will just keep it going for a significant
Speaker 1: period of time, of shutting down dozens of schools around
Speaker 1: the country, of traumatizing kids, of continually making those schools
Speaker 1: roll the dice. Because anytime you have a cop with
Speaker 1: an a R bust into a fucking school, hyped up
Speaker 1: thinking there's a shooting, there's a chance someone's going to
Speaker 1: get shot, right, So there's and that's that's I mean,
Speaker 1: there have been deaths from swattings, and that was that
Speaker 1: was But so it happened here two days in a
Speaker 1: row on Tuesday, happened in our middle school. And so
Speaker 1: like the second time they responded, they didn't respond. Is
Speaker 1: hot and heavy. Uh. Yeah, anytime you get you know,
Speaker 1: cops charging into a scenario where they think they might
Speaker 1: get to or have to, depending on how you feel
Speaker 1: about it, use their guns, the risk of someone being
Speaker 1: shot by accident is pastronomical. Yeah, And I honestly, I'm
Speaker 1: kind of shocked that has it happened, especially in the
Speaker 1: cases where you know, the caller gives a specific suspect
Speaker 1: description that you know puts anybody who vaguely meets that
Speaker 1: description at great risk. But I think this is just
Speaker 1: you know, joker mode nihilism. Yeah, that's that is if
Speaker 1: I were to like make a raw irresponsible like public guests. Um,
Speaker 1: not that I don't think this is actually that irresponsible,
Speaker 1: but like we just don't know. But that's that's what
Speaker 1: this that's the the mo this fits best so far
Speaker 1: is kind of raw. I want to disrupt the system,
Speaker 1: I want to scare people, and I want to do
Speaker 1: so in a way. That's the problem with a mass
Speaker 1: shooting from the perspect of someone like this is that
Speaker 1: you're gonna die or get arrested doing it, right, That's
Speaker 1: the way all of them end, And so that limits
Speaker 1: the number of people who are going to be inspired
Speaker 1: to carry out a mass shooting. If you can show that, yeah,
Speaker 1: people can can call in dozens of these fake reports
Speaker 1: and some of them you know, we're going to end violently, Uh,
Speaker 1: then maybe a bunch more people are willing to do that,
Speaker 1: and the overall level of disruption and chaos that you
Speaker 1: cause is substantially higher. Right, So it's a relatively low
Speaker 1: threshold for involvement. Right, you don't have to be ready
Speaker 1: to die and maybe you won't get caught. Although I
Speaker 1: think because especially in the Minnesota case, they're going to
Speaker 1: catch somebody. Governor Tim Waltz's son goes to man Cato
Speaker 1: High School. No, I mean you you you upset the
Speaker 1: governor's son, You're gonna get Yeah, and you did it
Speaker 1: all from a single like and I have to suspect
Speaker 1: the FBI is looking at this. They never I mean,
Speaker 1: it's policy, they're never going to confirm that until the
Speaker 1: point at which like it becomes there's it's a big
Speaker 1: enough story that they kind of have to for pr reasons.
Speaker 1: But I would be surprised if there was not an
Speaker 1: investigation at the moment. Every couple of days when one
Speaker 1: of these regional stories comes out, you know, they'll quote
Speaker 1: the local FBI field officing, you know, we're working with
Speaker 1: local authorities to help them investigate. But the FBI is
Speaker 1: absolutely investigating this nationwide. There's no chance that they're not. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's it's too it's too clear of a pattern. And
Speaker 1: it's not unprecedented, right that a couple of years ago
Speaker 1: there was that Adam Often swatting ring that those guys
Speaker 1: did go to prison for. So it doesn't have to
Speaker 1: be a lot of guys. This could just be a
Speaker 1: couple of people. So you know, we're saying we're not
Speaker 1: seeing this leak out anywhere. It's not being disgust anywhere.
Speaker 1: It could just be you know, three or four guys.
Speaker 1: It could be for four people in a discord with
Speaker 1: some like auto dialing apps that they've they've either coded,
Speaker 1: are found somewhere on the internet. Um, which if they
Speaker 1: if they are using some sort of like program to
Speaker 1: do this, that's meant for I don't know, sketchy uh
Speaker 1: salesman or whatever, there's a decent chance that's what brings
Speaker 1: them down, um because all of that ship has terrible security,
Speaker 1: but um so does discord. I don't know, Like I,
Speaker 1: it'll be interesting to see what happens here. I think
Speaker 1: one of the questions for from the perspective certainly of
Speaker 1: like people listening, what can be done here? Well, at
Speaker 1: a local level, one thing people can fight for and
Speaker 1: advocate for specialty, especially if you're involved in local government,
Speaker 1: is like I would like to know every year how
Speaker 1: many times the police go to a school over a
Speaker 1: false report of a shooting? Right? How many times are
Speaker 1: classrooms being cleared? How many times are the cops showing
Speaker 1: up for this? Um? Because that's important information and and
Speaker 1: that also should taylor the way the police are being
Speaker 1: trained for this and the ways like the there's a
Speaker 1: number of things that you should be doing. If you know, hey,
Speaker 1: we had no mass shootings this year, but the cops
Speaker 1: showed up with guns drawn forty five times, right, that
Speaker 1: that should inform the way you do things in the
Speaker 1: future in order to minimize the trauma these kids go through.
Speaker 1: That's one thing that is an immediate thing people can
Speaker 1: take and that you can do. People can add the
Speaker 1: cat for locally. But it's I mean, it's a tough
Speaker 1: line here, right because you know, I think every district
Speaker 1: is really eager not to be the next Ubal Day
Speaker 1: police of course, so showing up hot and heavy, they're
Speaker 1: going right in there, you knocking down doors and pointing
Speaker 1: guns and kids. You know that the video that came
Speaker 1: out from that classroom in Houston, they frisked several children
Speaker 1: at gunpoint. I'm not sure why that they were sitting
Speaker 1: at their desks, they were obviously not committing a mass shooting.
Speaker 1: Or in Denver on Monday, they evacuated the whole school
Speaker 1: onto the football field with their hands in the air,
Speaker 1: like was not necessarily horror, right, and you know, even
Speaker 1: even as a police abolitionist and recognize that in the
Speaker 1: system in which we currently live, there is no response
Speaker 1: to a school shooting that does not involve the police.
Speaker 1: That's right where we are. But are they Are they
Speaker 1: doing this smart? Yeah? As a as a rule, I
Speaker 1: think everyone can agree that, given the current realities of
Speaker 1: the world we live in, if a guy is shooting
Speaker 1: up a school or a lady, um, it's good for
Speaker 1: people with guns to come and stop them, and that
Speaker 1: that's realistically going to be the police in our current system.
Speaker 1: But that doesn't mean we can't be like, well, okay,
Speaker 1: they came up fifty times falsely and traumatized all these
Speaker 1: kids by pointing guns at them on the fucking football field.
Speaker 1: We should change the way in which they're responding to
Speaker 1: these like that should be the default. These are things
Speaker 1: people can lobby for at a local level that will
Speaker 1: have an impact on at least the quality of life
Speaker 1: for kids in the schools and for parents you know,
Speaker 1: like you know you all day there was the parent
Speaker 1: who you know slipped around the police line and got
Speaker 1: into the school and got her kid yesterday, no, two days,
Speaker 1: two days ago, in San Antonio, they had a you know,
Speaker 1: a hoax call. Somebody called in swatch showed up, uh,
Speaker 1: and parents showed up because they got the emergency alert text.
Speaker 1: So the parking lot fills with parents. A father punched
Speaker 1: through a window, cut his arm up, and was hand looked, tackled,
Speaker 1: and handcuffed by the police because I just wanted this
Speaker 1: fucking kid. Of course this is going to keep playing
Speaker 1: out or here on Tuesday at the middle school, you know,
Speaker 1: I was listening to my scanner. After the you know,
Speaker 1: the cleared buildings, the police left, and then a call
Speaker 1: came over the scanner and said, the school's requesting that
Speaker 1: the police come back to handle the parents because parents
Speaker 1: are angry. Of course they are. So how do we
Speaker 1: how do we navigate this tension of yes, we need
Speaker 1: police to respond if there is a school shooting, But
Speaker 1: how do we as community communities navigate this space where
Speaker 1: we also don't want them to point guns at our kids.
Speaker 1: We don't we don't have a lot of trust and
Speaker 1: communication with our police department. So I don't know if
Speaker 1: that's a space we can navigate. This is a problem
Speaker 1: that has to be adapted to. Right there is the potential.
Speaker 1: You have this problem, right, which is that it is
Speaker 1: apparently easy to weaponize the reporting system for mass shootings.
Speaker 1: The problem that's compounded by the fact that you can't
Speaker 1: ignore the risk of a mass shooting because kids can die,
Speaker 1: people will get killed if you are wrong about that.
Speaker 1: At the same time, it is unreasonable to say that
Speaker 1: every single time one of these reports happens, if the
Speaker 1: ratio is hundreds of false reports to one actual shooting,
Speaker 1: every time it happens, you go and you stick guns
Speaker 1: in the face of a bunch of kids, and you
Speaker 1: trauma to as all these parents who wind up going
Speaker 1: crazy for understandable reasons. There are a way, there are
Speaker 1: structures that can be built into the system to mitigate
Speaker 1: those harms at least, and I think that is, you know,
Speaker 1: from the perspective of who is doing this and how
Speaker 1: can they be stopped? That is a question that will
Speaker 1: be answered either by law enforcement or by independent researchers.
Speaker 1: But but that's that's a research problem, right, That's a
Speaker 1: cracking case problem. My fear is that the response to
Speaker 1: this will be um putting more cops in schools. Right,
Speaker 1: it's you know, the company school doesn't stop the school shooting.
Speaker 1: We know that from you know, empirical evidence, or maybe
Speaker 1: in several of these cases, you know the news story says,
Speaker 1: you know, dispatch contact of the school resource officers who said, no,
Speaker 1: I don't see anything. So is the solution going to
Speaker 1: be put a guy in there who can look Yeah,
Speaker 1: and he's not gonna do anything, but he's gonna Charlottsville,
Speaker 1: the city of Charlesville took ours, took school resource officers
Speaker 1: out of schools last year, two years ago. Time scaped now.
Speaker 1: So my my fear is that even people who a
Speaker 1: plauded that decision will at this point say, maybe we
Speaker 1: should put them back. Maybe we need a guy in
Speaker 1: there with a direct line to dispatch. Yeah, and I
Speaker 1: and maybe we do. I don't don't think they need
Speaker 1: to have It needs to be a man with a
Speaker 1: gun who has the ability to arrest children, right having
Speaker 1: having a first responder on scene at every school who
Speaker 1: can be the yes, there actually is a shooting or
Speaker 1: no there's not. Maybe a se medical training is perhaps
Speaker 1: a different thing that could happen, rather than let's put
Speaker 1: more armed men in schools. Right like that. That's not
Speaker 1: an inherently unreasonable proposition, but I don't know. I don't
Speaker 1: know that police are going to be receptive to the
Speaker 1: idea of let's ask some questions first, right, because as
Speaker 1: I was listening to the scanner again, you know, I
Speaker 1: have the most information about the two incidents is that
Speaker 1: were in my neighborhood. Um, I was listening to the
Speaker 1: scanner on Tuesday, and it takes time for cops to
Speaker 1: arrive at a scene, even in a relatively small town.
Speaker 1: By the time they had dispatched this response to the scene,
Speaker 1: they had already spoken to the principle over the phone.
Speaker 1: They already knew this was not true. We'll see. And
Speaker 1: there's another solve problem because if you're if you're having
Speaker 1: guys with guns still show up because it's policy. When
Speaker 1: someone at the school has said no, there's not a shooting,
Speaker 1: well that's again, that is a problem that can be
Speaker 1: altered or that can be fixed to mitigate harm. That
Speaker 1: seems pretty simple, which is be like, well, maybe if
Speaker 1: somebody at this, maybe if the school's principle says no,
Speaker 1: nothing is happening here, you don't send the gun guys.
Speaker 1: Maybe you still send a squad car to check it
Speaker 1: out for die hard purposes. I'm sure, we all remember
Speaker 1: what that movie has to say about these kinds of problems.
Speaker 1: But um, you know, I I there's a lot that
Speaker 1: can be done with the information that this is a problem,
Speaker 1: And to a certain extent, I think I'm hopeful that
Speaker 1: once this kind of blows up, and I'm certain this well,
Speaker 1: I'm certain that maybe even by the time this launches,
Speaker 1: there will be some big national stories about this, because
Speaker 1: this is this is a really substantial problem. Very obviously
Speaker 1: is a substantial problem. Um. I hope that one of
Speaker 1: the things that does is perhaps lead to the authorities
Speaker 1: taking swatting and threats of swatting and communities that engage
Speaker 1: in swatting much more seriously, because by god, they have
Speaker 1: not so far, and it's not the laws about it
Speaker 1: are not super consistent state to state that you know,
Speaker 1: there has been some attempts on the federal level to
Speaker 1: make you know, blanket legislation about this specific because you know,
Speaker 1: it's it's illegal to make a false report to the police,
Speaker 1: it's illegal to make you know, a false nine one
Speaker 1: one call, but to specifically and intentionally weaponize an armed
Speaker 1: police response because you hope it will hurt someone. In
Speaker 1: most states, isn't its own crime, right, Like, and I
Speaker 1: think in California they have specific legislation that, like you
Speaker 1: can be charred, like financially responsible for whatever it costs
Speaker 1: to have that response. But like, there's not uniform agreement
Speaker 1: that this is a separate crime. This is a separate
Speaker 1: harm that should be punished in a specific way. And
Speaker 1: maybe maybe we'll get that out of this. I don't
Speaker 1: know that that solves it, but again it will Like
Speaker 1: you were saying that this is a lower barrier to
Speaker 1: entry cry, but if you up the punishment, maybe the
Speaker 1: threshold to decide to do it goes up. Yeah. Yeah, Again,
Speaker 1: I think there's there's a variety of things that can
Speaker 1: be done now that we know this is a problem.
Speaker 1: And one of the reasons why I think this is
Speaker 1: important for us to cover on a show like this
Speaker 1: is a lot of these are problems that can at
Speaker 1: least be mitigated at the local level. Right, You do
Speaker 1: have power if you're involving yourself in local politics to
Speaker 1: do things like advocate for a system in which you
Speaker 1: track how often this is happening, to do things like
Speaker 1: advocate for changes in how the school handles this sort
Speaker 1: of thing like that is a thing that you that
Speaker 1: people can handle locally, um, and that is you'll get
Speaker 1: a faster response handling it locally as well than you
Speaker 1: will trying to advocate for some sort of big national
Speaker 1: swatting law and you're gonna get You're going to get
Speaker 1: faster and better results changing local departmental policy than you
Speaker 1: will getting any law that changes how the police be
Speaker 1: highly unlikely. Yeah, and so I I think this is important.
Speaker 1: I think it's important for people to win gauge with
Speaker 1: this from the perspective of, like, we don't know why
Speaker 1: this is happening or who is doing it yet, and
Speaker 1: it maybe a while before I'm certain we will find
Speaker 1: out at some point these people will get caught, but um,
Speaker 1: it almost doesn't matter because the system is so easy
Speaker 1: to weaponize. The solution is to try to find ways
Speaker 1: to make it less harmful without reducing the ability of
Speaker 1: people with guns to show up if they need to
Speaker 1: to stop someone who's murdering kids. Right, those are the
Speaker 1: two things that need to be done, not reduced the
Speaker 1: efficacy of the system, which is not very good to
Speaker 1: be honest at stopping mass shootings. And and it's pissport
Speaker 1: at that. So it would be hard to make it worse.
Speaker 1: I will say when people talk about, well, what happens
Speaker 1: if they well, they're bad at it now. They're terrible
Speaker 1: at it now. So it's not like I'm not worried
Speaker 1: about making a change to like mitigate the response of swattings,
Speaker 1: in this instance, harming kids, because as it is, the
Speaker 1: system almost never saves them when there is an actual
Speaker 1: mass shooting. So simple reducing the amount of time that
Speaker 1: kids have cops pull guns on them and these false reports, Um,
Speaker 1: that's more of a priority to me than anything else. Um. Yeah,
Speaker 1: when when we're talking about the issue of swatting, and
Speaker 1: I think there again, there's just there's things that can
Speaker 1: be done there Molly, is there anything else you wanted
Speaker 1: to get to on this on this subject? No, I
Speaker 1: think that covers it. I just this is still happening.
Speaker 1: It's happening today like it's it is still ongoing. This
Speaker 1: phenomenon is ongoing, and I think it will continue to
Speaker 1: build until it hits a breaking point. Like you said,
Speaker 1: I definitely think some of these people will be caught,
Speaker 1: but I don't know what that changes, right, Like, once
Speaker 1: this breaks containment, once people see that this is a
Speaker 1: thing that they could do. Yeah, yeah, do we do
Speaker 1: we deal with a wave of this before it gets
Speaker 1: under control that gets even bigger or is that what's
Speaker 1: actually happening right now? I don't know. And does this
Speaker 1: when does this, I don't know, desensitize people to the
Speaker 1: idea of these threats. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know.
Speaker 1: But no kids get shot. I hope no kids get shot.
Speaker 1: If you're a journalist and you're trying to you are
Speaker 1: trying to report on this in some sort of concerted way. Uh,
Speaker 1: you can find Molly on Twitter a socialist stuck mom,
Speaker 1: she's done, she's reading most of your article for you.
Speaker 1: You can stee like. But I think there are journalists
Speaker 1: listening to this. I think it's important to tell them
Speaker 1: ask the right questions right, like when you're you know,
Speaker 1: when you're getting your three questions into the press conference
Speaker 1: with the local shriff's office, ask specifically, where did the
Speaker 1: call come in? What number was dialed by the caller? Right?
Speaker 1: Because I don't think these are nine one one calls.
Speaker 1: I think people are using nine when one in shorthand,
Speaker 1: So asked where the call came from, the substance of
Speaker 1: the call because I think I imagine that some of
Speaker 1: these calls are verbatim and we just don't know that.
Speaker 1: I think some of them are probably identical, and we
Speaker 1: just don't have any way of It's hard to connect
Speaker 1: the dots when the police won't tell us. So I
Speaker 1: think if you know, if journalists are listening, ask more
Speaker 1: questions than you got in the press release, that's critical
Speaker 1: because if there were if there was a if there
Speaker 1: was a Virginia State like repository where every time we
Speaker 1: get a false swatting attempt against the school, we report
Speaker 1: when it came in, who was called, and what was
Speaker 1: said over the call, right, Um, all of which are
Speaker 1: things that they could pretty easily get because this ship
Speaker 1: is always recorded. Um. I don't know that that's true, though,
Speaker 1: and that's that's another sort of tactical nine one one calls.
Speaker 1: But if you call the front desk at the police station,
Speaker 1: it probably isn't. That is a fucking good point, um.
Speaker 1: In any case, that is another thing that could be
Speaker 1: dealt with, because then you would at least be able
Speaker 1: to see, Oh, there's forty swatting attempts in the state
Speaker 1: in the last five days, and thirty eight of them.
Speaker 1: It was the exact same script. There's probably a single
Speaker 1: source of this that we should be like looking at, um,
Speaker 1: and that can help not just law enforcement who's generally
Speaker 1: bad at these sort of investigations, but people like you
Speaker 1: who are good at these sort of investigation aations and
Speaker 1: can maybe then start doing keyword searches and figure out
Speaker 1: where the funk this stuff is originating from, if it's
Speaker 1: anywhere on the semi open internet. Um. Again, things, there's
Speaker 1: a lot to be done to respond to this problem
Speaker 1: that that doesn't start with like throwing more cops at
Speaker 1: it or or or whatever. Like. There's there's a number
Speaker 1: of different problems that this is revealed, um, so hopefully
Speaker 1: those get solved anyway, Molly, you got anything else to
Speaker 1: plug before we go? Oh, defund your local police department,
Speaker 1: subscribe your local newspaper. Sure, um, and uh yeah, if
Speaker 1: if you're at a school right now, good good luck
Speaker 1: those kids. Yeah, they are really the kids these days
Speaker 1: are dealing with a lot. Um. I'm I'm I'm more
Speaker 1: grateful every year that my my childhood was as uneventful
Speaker 1: as it was, because boy, howdy, is it rough to
Speaker 1: be a student today. And they still have to take
Speaker 1: their tests and tests. Yeah, they have to go to school.
Speaker 1: They got to read The Great Gatsby while this is
Speaker 1: going on. Unbelievable. Um, sorry kids, it's it's it's it
Speaker 1: could happen here. The podcast that we open sometimes, yes,
Speaker 1: this is, this is this is, this is how we
Speaker 1: do this job. Um it is. It is also a
Speaker 1: podcast that is very very often about strikes, and someone's
Speaker 1: presently this is this is an episode that is not
Speaker 1: about the Giant rail strike that everyone was focused on
Speaker 1: that didn't happen. Um. And the reason it's not about Okay,
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously it's not about that because it didn't happen.
Speaker 1: But the other reason it's not about that is that
Speaker 1: there was another giant strike that was really I think
Speaker 1: ignored by both sort of the media and the people
Speaker 1: who normally would be following strikes that was happening at
Speaker 1: about the same time. And that is a massive fift
Speaker 1: person nurses strike up up up in Wisconsin. And to
Speaker 1: talk with us about that, Wait, did I say that Minnesota?
Speaker 1: Did I? Did I confuse Wisconsin and Minnesota? Oh my god,
Speaker 1: I'd always do this. They did treat a strike, you are, yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't. There's some part of my brain that never
Speaker 1: quite like figured out which one was Wisconsin which one
Speaker 1: was Minnesota, and it just like flips them in my mind.
Speaker 1: They're just like they're just the state that's sort of
Speaker 1: over there from Illinois, which I don't I don't really
Speaker 1: have an excuse because like I'm from here, like i've
Speaker 1: I've I've lived not in the Midwest for like six
Speaker 1: months now. Wow, okay, like a year of my life
Speaker 1: when I was like unbelievably small child. Ye, but yeah,
Speaker 1: it is. It is. Yeah, there's been only strikes in Minnesota.
Speaker 1: And with me to talk about the strikes that are
Speaker 1: not happening in Wisconsin is Danielle, who is a nurse
Speaker 1: at Methodist Hospital and a steward for the Minnesota Nurses Association. Danielle,
Speaker 1: Welcome to the show. Thank you, thank you for having me. Yeah,
Speaker 1: thank you, thank you for coming on. Um. Okay, so
Speaker 1: I guess the first thing that I wanted to talk
Speaker 1: about is the kind of strike that you all were doing,
Speaker 1: because this is something that I've seen a lot with
Speaker 1: nurses strikes, but I don't think people who aren't in
Speaker 1: nurses unions like talking about very much, which is basically
Speaker 1: doing a three day strike or doing a strike that's
Speaker 1: for for for a set number of days, but it's
Speaker 1: not indefinite. UM. And I wanted to ask about that
Speaker 1: specifically as a tactic a bit. Yeah. Absolutely, UM, it's
Speaker 1: not uncommon in the healthcare sector at all to do
Speaker 1: one day, two day, three day, five day, seven day strikes. UM.
Speaker 1: We usually leave like an open ended strike for kind
Speaker 1: of a lasted effort um to get the employer's attention. UM.
Speaker 1: So there's a lot to coordinate to compensate for a
Speaker 1: three day strike. UM. It affects everyone's job at the
Speaker 1: hospital and then after three days they have to flip
Speaker 1: everything back. UM. That UM, that type of disruption in
Speaker 1: capital is UM has been really effective um across the nation.
Speaker 1: So we're hoping that they hear us loud and proud,
Speaker 1: but it's challenging. They have a lot of money. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And I think from from what I've talked to other
Speaker 1: nurses about this strike and also other people have done
Speaker 1: nurses strikes, is that like there's like a huge pool
Speaker 1: of scabs, which makes me really hard And is it
Speaker 1: is it the case that part of the reason why
Speaker 1: you do one of these limited strikes is that it's
Speaker 1: it's a lot harder for them to coordinate, like bringing
Speaker 1: in scas for limited amount of time that it would
Speaker 1: be for like hiring them full time for an indefinite strike. Yeah, exactly,
Speaker 1: so travel nurses, I mean they are those strike nurses
Speaker 1: come in strictly just for those three days. They are
Speaker 1: oriented for you know, a few hours prior to starting
Speaker 1: at seven am on Monday. UM, so there's not a
Speaker 1: lot of time to learn the entire facility. And since
Speaker 1: we are gone, the only ones left to orientate our
Speaker 1: managers or any nurses that have to stay for whatever reason.
Speaker 1: We really didn't have money at all across the line. UM.
Speaker 1: So it just compromises UM patient safety and care in general. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: there's no way to create teamwork with just three days
Speaker 1: of your nurses. UM. So just um the hospital is
Speaker 1: just more accountable for system airs. Um. They try to
Speaker 1: keep those issues as internal as possible and not disclose
Speaker 1: them to the public. But there's a lot that happened,
Speaker 1: you know. They it's funny all the media reports are
Speaker 1: like or we're just like straight up printing press releases
Speaker 1: being like there's been no internal disruptions. Stomach, I don't
Speaker 1: believe that, Like there's no way, there's like it's just
Speaker 1: not true. They are just lying, so lying, and to
Speaker 1: prepare for us to go and strike. I mean, they
Speaker 1: try their hardest to discharge as many patients as possible
Speaker 1: Sunday prior to our strike, to empty out hospitals. The
Speaker 1: thing is like, you can't just you're not a magician.
Speaker 1: You can't make sick people go away. Um. There was
Speaker 1: a lot of readmissions because of that. You're discharging people
Speaker 1: too quickly. Um. I know what the children's hospitals they
Speaker 1: actually um like shuttled forty four children out to other
Speaker 1: surrounding hospitals two because they couldn't get enough travelers to work.
Speaker 1: You can't get fifteen thousands travelers. So that's what they
Speaker 1: did to try to undermine us. It's a lot of
Speaker 1: moving things around, and I am hoping the public there's
Speaker 1: an uproar with the public about this. That's I don't
Speaker 1: know who's paying for you know, the cost of shipping
Speaker 1: kids to different hospitals. Yeah, I assume the hospital is
Speaker 1: not going to pay for it. Yeah, God, So yeah,
Speaker 1: I guess we should move into like how we got
Speaker 1: to the point where fifteen thousand nurses or went on strike,
Speaker 1: which I think, I mean, certainly the largest nurses strike
Speaker 1: like in the in the private stactor I can remember,
Speaker 1: Like it's I think I think it's one of the
Speaker 1: largest the US ever had. Yeah, yeah it is. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Can we talk about like I get and this this
Speaker 1: is there's also sort of a broader question here about
Speaker 1: like what the US healthcare system looks like in here
Speaker 1: two of this plague in the sector that's already been
Speaker 1: sort of just decimated by like incredibly veno profit seeking,
Speaker 1: greedy corporations. Yeah yeah, so what what what? What? What
Speaker 1: would have been the conditions that have been leading up
Speaker 1: to this strike that got this many people off of
Speaker 1: the line. Um, I mean our health care system has
Speaker 1: been unstable, um for quite some time. Hospitals have been
Speaker 1: consolidating so much, like closing clinics and facilities, um, just
Speaker 1: to maximize profit. It's um like there their whole goal
Speaker 1: is kind of like how airlines overbooked for flights, they
Speaker 1: create like an artificial hospital that's shortage in order to
Speaker 1: maximize profit. So they've been doing that for a year
Speaker 1: and then also just buying up little hospitals to control
Speaker 1: the market more. Um, They've also are starting their own
Speaker 1: insurance companies just to double dip into communities wallets. So
Speaker 1: that's been going on prior to the pandemic. Pandemic hit,
Speaker 1: they were not ready. They didn't have enough PPE at all,
Speaker 1: because it's not there's no UM, it's not financially incentivized
Speaker 1: to have extra pp on and that's their logic. I
Speaker 1: remember in the beginning of the pandemic, like my aunt
Speaker 1: and uncle work for hospital, and like we were trying
Speaker 1: to get the masks and like we wound up like
Speaker 1: we were like doing contracts with like like my like
Speaker 1: literally my family in China was like I know a
Speaker 1: guy who knows a guy who could like who who
Speaker 1: like has a mass manufacturing thing. It was o god,
Speaker 1: it was so grim. It was Yeah, it was a mess,
Speaker 1: and we didn't have enough PPU. We had to reuse
Speaker 1: stuff instantly UM. And we were never compensated for it
Speaker 1: either UM. We just were forced to work harder and
Speaker 1: longer UM for the same pay. And now hospitals are
Speaker 1: trying to normalize that staffing UM shortage and say, well
Speaker 1: that's it, that's you know, so you just have to
Speaker 1: work with what we're giving you. Um in this shortage
Speaker 1: is just it's causing unnecessary medical errors and deaths, and
Speaker 1: it's just a disservice to our community. Yeah, it's going
Speaker 1: kind of down a dark path. So I think all
Speaker 1: of that During the pandemic, hospitals really showed their true colors.
Speaker 1: And I know the nurses really realized that the hospital
Speaker 1: is only there too, just like fat in their wallets.
Speaker 1: They're not there for us, They're not The goal is
Speaker 1: to make us all leave the bedside and just outsource
Speaker 1: all of their employees. You would escape all liabilities if
Speaker 1: you have all travelers in place, there's um, there's no
Speaker 1: real incentive to hold the hospital accountable for institutional failures.
Speaker 1: Can you explain what travelers are for the audience people
Speaker 1: who may not know? Oh? Yeah, absolutely. UM. So travel
Speaker 1: nurses come across her like across the entire um nation,
Speaker 1: and they are contracted through travel companies that work with hospitals. UM.
Speaker 1: So if there's a nursing shortage, UM, there will be
Speaker 1: open positions to apply for those contract positions that are
Speaker 1: like short terms, so either like a four week six week,
Speaker 1: or if it's like a strike, contract would be like
Speaker 1: three days, seven days, whatever. It might be UM, and
Speaker 1: they're paid handsomely. I know for our three days strike,
Speaker 1: those travel nurses, those strike nurses specifically for three days,
Speaker 1: they ten k each for three days, and they didn't
Speaker 1: even know the facility. Some of them never even worked
Speaker 1: in a hospital. I don't I don't understand the requirements. Um.
Speaker 1: It's confusing. How Yeah, And I'm not trying to demonize
Speaker 1: travel nurses in any sort of way. There's amazing travel nurses.
Speaker 1: I've worked with some. They're great people, but they're UM.
Speaker 1: It just undermines um, like our profession. Like it's it's
Speaker 1: hard to improve our profession when you have people that
Speaker 1: can replace you. Um, there's no real change we can make.
Speaker 1: It's just we're fighting each other. And travel nurses are
Speaker 1: independent contractors. Yeah, exactly, So the hospital doesn't pay them benefits. Um,
Speaker 1: they don't vacation, they don't call in six Um. They
Speaker 1: save the employer a lot of money. UM because they
Speaker 1: don't have to like provide any hospital resources such as
Speaker 1: like employee health or workers compensation or anything like that.
Speaker 1: And they just have that six week contract that they
Speaker 1: focus on and they they're definitely paid their worth. There's
Speaker 1: less liability on the hospital too. If there's any medical errors,
Speaker 1: it's easier to like blame the travel nurse instead of
Speaker 1: blaming like institutional failures. Um, travel nurses, they just they
Speaker 1: can't unionize. There's just not a way. There's not like
Speaker 1: a common area for them to come together and yeah,
Speaker 1: create a union. So that's the hospitals like that. Um.
Speaker 1: Also when you have more travel nurses that hospital, that's
Speaker 1: less funding that can go to our union. So like
Speaker 1: we pay union dues every month, UM, and if hospitals
Speaker 1: are hiring more travel nurses, our union gets less funny,
Speaker 1: less power. Sadly, Okay, do you do? You do? You
Speaker 1: know who else wants everyone to work as contract workers
Speaker 1: so they can't unionize. Ever, it's it's the products and
Speaker 1: services that support the show. And we're back. So all right,
Speaker 1: I guess moving on from that, well, okay, I guess
Speaker 1: I guess before we fully move on to talking about
Speaker 1: how the striker was sort of organized, UM, can we
Speaker 1: talk a little bit more about what staffing shortages looks
Speaker 1: like and what what the effect that has on patients is?
Speaker 1: Because I think people like I think people this is
Speaker 1: something people like kind of conceptually understand but don't like
Speaker 1: viscerally get what it means to have a staffing shortage
Speaker 1: in a hospital mhm h UM. So with inadequate nursing
Speaker 1: UM staffing levels by experienced nurses, UM, there's an increased
Speaker 1: rate of patient falls, infections, medical errors UM, increase in deaths,
Speaker 1: increase in pressure ulcers UM, increase in readmission rates. So
Speaker 1: having to go back to the hospital because UM, you
Speaker 1: weren't given like high quality care at the hospital. It
Speaker 1: is just kind of mediocre if nurses are kind of
Speaker 1: strapped with time and I have to divide their attention
Speaker 1: between too many patients. So I don't know if you
Speaker 1: actually are legally allowed to say this, but like how
Speaker 1: many patients like per day roughly are like you are,
Speaker 1: like you are treating patients are retreating the day um
Speaker 1: Our hospital at Methodist has a out four beds and
Speaker 1: we've been at capacity so above a hundred percent, And
Speaker 1: you're probably wondering, well, how do you get above a
Speaker 1: dent um? The e er will board patients, meaning a
Speaker 1: patient will stay on a cart and they'll be in
Speaker 1: a hallway and always will be lined up with patients
Speaker 1: that are just waiting for other patients and other units
Speaker 1: to be discharged so they can take that bed. UM,
Speaker 1: so they can wait in the e R for up
Speaker 1: to two to three days just waiting to be like
Speaker 1: really admitted. UM. So we've been at capacity for a
Speaker 1: long time, and that is that is purposely done to
Speaker 1: maximize profit, just because of they've been consolidating, closing other
Speaker 1: hospitals UM and other neighborhoods. Like they're like they're they're
Speaker 1: charging all those people who are just like laying there
Speaker 1: in a hallway right absolutely, or even UM if people
Speaker 1: come in for surgery and they have to after surgery,
Speaker 1: they go to recovery. They can sit in recovery for
Speaker 1: up to eight hours, which normally after surgery you only
Speaker 1: need to be there like a half hour to an
Speaker 1: hour kind of depending on how you will wake up
Speaker 1: from anesthesia, and then you go to your room. But
Speaker 1: we are just holding them in recovery because we're waiting
Speaker 1: on beds and rooms to be available. Because the hospital
Speaker 1: does not plan an advance at all. That's not cost effective. Yeah. Well,
Speaker 1: I mean it's funny because it's like it's it really
Speaker 1: seems it's sort of one of those things where it's
Speaker 1: like literally this entire process would be enormously less expensive
Speaker 1: if you hired like four more people and didn't close
Speaker 1: every hospital around you. But like, you know, it's it's
Speaker 1: it's not it's not about efficiency. It's about like making
Speaker 1: sure you have as many dying people like sitting in
Speaker 1: a hallway so you can charge them more. It's like exactly,
Speaker 1: it's people are profitable, not healthy people. Yeah, m hmm, yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean it's really it's like there's just something like
Speaker 1: sort of particularly venal and disgusting about here. It's like,
Speaker 1: you know, it's it's all of the same, like, Okay,
Speaker 1: well we we've we've we've built up a monopoly, and
Speaker 1: we're using your monopoly to force everyone to user services.
Speaker 1: And then we're you know, we're we're using contract workers
Speaker 1: to a place to people who would normally do the job.
Speaker 1: But it's like, well, it's with health care, and it's
Speaker 1: like instead of just like every TV show being awful,
Speaker 1: it's here's a bunch of people who are getting sick
Speaker 1: and dying because we just don't have enough nurses exactly.
Speaker 1: And then the only thing the hospitals do, um is
Speaker 1: um they have all the managers go around and tell
Speaker 1: nurses okay, today we gotta flex up. They'll use terminology
Speaker 1: like that that sounds like empowering and like strong man,
Speaker 1: we've gotta flex up today, meaning we want you to
Speaker 1: take more patients than you like safely can meeting. Like
Speaker 1: if you're if you work on a medical surgical unit,
Speaker 1: it's usually like fortified patients is what's recommended for one
Speaker 1: nurse to have for twelve hours. They'll ask you to
Speaker 1: take six or seven Jesus, and they'll call it flexing up,
Speaker 1: and they're like, well, yeah, but Boble, there's flex up.
Speaker 1: Why aren't you flexing up? And it's just it's that
Speaker 1: type of like corporate speak and empowerment language um that
Speaker 1: forces us to risk our license. Yeah, and I think
Speaker 1: one of the consequences of this that, I mean, it's
Speaker 1: really obvious if you've been following sector at all, is
Speaker 1: that Okay, Well, it turns out if you if you
Speaker 1: work a bunch of people like basically to death and
Speaker 1: you don't give them a free sources and you're making
Speaker 1: them take too many patients, it's that people just start quitting.
Speaker 1: And yeah, can you talk a bit about sort of
Speaker 1: the shortage that's been happening because of that too, Because
Speaker 1: that's I think a really bleak like just in the
Speaker 1: long term too. It's just, uh, I don't know, like
Speaker 1: if you want to have an even vaguely functioning society,
Speaker 1: the fact that you can't keep people as nurses, yeah,
Speaker 1: really bad. Absolutely. Yeah. Pandemic hit and nurses realize that
Speaker 1: they're just they're not being paid their worth. There's travel
Speaker 1: jobs that are you can make two under grant a year,
Speaker 1: three under grand a year, um, just doing travel nursing.
Speaker 1: And then they're kind of sold on the idea that
Speaker 1: you own your schedule and you can just kind of
Speaker 1: plan around vacations and other times off you need, and
Speaker 1: you just kind of book like a four week stint
Speaker 1: at a hospital. If you don't like it, you can leave. Um.
Speaker 1: So they kind of just sell our jobs back to us.
Speaker 1: But it's not good healthcare. Yeah, it's just it's like
Speaker 1: you know, I've talked about this with like like people
Speaker 1: who work at Starbucks, for example, where it's like, well, okay,
Speaker 1: if if you're just constant moving people around and nobody's
Speaker 1: like actually stays at a place, and you never you
Speaker 1: never build up a community of people who are working
Speaker 1: with like your cares, you know, it's like, Okay, well
Speaker 1: you're not gonna get good stuff. It's like, yeah, like
Speaker 1: this is like like this is people's lives. Yeah exactly.
Speaker 1: And those um travel travel nurses, I mean, their their
Speaker 1: goals are usually like financial freedom, like all of our
Speaker 1: goals um so, and their goals are always short term.
Speaker 1: You know, all I have to do is just deal
Speaker 1: with this hospital for four weeks and then I'm gone, Well,
Speaker 1: how is that going to fix any institutional area errors?
Speaker 1: I mean, are issues there? I mean, they never will
Speaker 1: hold the employer accountable. Yeah, and especially like it seems
Speaker 1: like like you know, even even even if like everyone
Speaker 1: walking like I don't, I don't think you could have
Speaker 1: a functional hospital system if everyone was a travel nurse.
Speaker 1: But like at some point it feels like there's no
Speaker 1: way for there to be, like there's no way for
Speaker 1: people to like keep leaving hospitals to go be travel nurses.
Speaker 1: And also for travel nurse is pay to stay that high?
Speaker 1: Yeah exactly. Eventually it'll get saturated, and that's kind of
Speaker 1: the goal of hospitals to push all of their UM
Speaker 1: permanent employees into traveling. So once that industry becomes saturated,
Speaker 1: then you can decrease wages, and we'd have to compete
Speaker 1: amongst each other, um, for certain jobs with certain hours
Speaker 1: that we need or whatever. We'll just be Um, it's
Speaker 1: just a race to the bottom. We're just gonna Yeah.
Speaker 1: Then the employer will control the market. And it's yeah, um,
Speaker 1: And I can't imagine twenty years from now, um, trying
Speaker 1: to be a travel nurse. It's just going to be
Speaker 1: hard to compete with those younger people that are that
Speaker 1: could work harder and faster and longer than me for
Speaker 1: less money. It's not sustainable for a career. Yeah, it's
Speaker 1: it's just doesn't seem like a good way to do healthcare.
Speaker 1: Like yeah that also oh yeah, m hm, exactly. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So I guess the next thing you want to talk
Speaker 1: about in terms of okay, so how do you make
Speaker 1: this better? Is about Yeah, this is a very large
Speaker 1: multi hospital strike across multiple cities, which is really impressive
Speaker 1: thing to pull off. And I was warning to talk
Speaker 1: about how how that happens. Yeah, you know, the pandemic
Speaker 1: really pushed a lot of nurses to want to fight
Speaker 1: for change. Um. And I think that it all started there.
Speaker 1: We all started coming together with the same issues and
Speaker 1: problems and um, yeah, finally just started organizing more. Um.
Speaker 1: All these hospitals were currently unionized, but somewhere more like
Speaker 1: involved in their union than others. UM. I'd say now
Speaker 1: a lot of nurses are more involved in the union.
Speaker 1: And it's a lot of younger nurses too. UM, just
Speaker 1: because there people are finally realizing that we are the union.
Speaker 1: It's not a separate entity from us. It's something that
Speaker 1: we can control and be a part of and be
Speaker 1: able to use it to balance power. UM. So it
Speaker 1: just yeah, it's our only way to fight um, this
Speaker 1: healthcare sector. I also want to ask about what the
Speaker 1: negotiation process has been like, because I mean five months
Speaker 1: is I mean, you know, okay like that you very
Speaker 1: rarely get fast contracts when you're dealing with bosses. But yeah,
Speaker 1: like the contract negotiation process seems to have been really bad,
Speaker 1: even by sort of like regular contract association standards. Yeah,
Speaker 1: for sure. I mean our negotiations. We probably have negotiations
Speaker 1: like once a week, once every other week, um, and
Speaker 1: the hospital shows up with five of their like elites
Speaker 1: that just hied behind a corporate lawyer. It was just
Speaker 1: a union busting lawyer. And all they do is just
Speaker 1: gaslight and demonize us and say, well, the hospital staffing
Speaker 1: shortage is your fault because you guys are calling in
Speaker 1: sick too much or I mean, they just turn everything
Speaker 1: around to blame the nurses. It's very demoralizing. It's um,
Speaker 1: we feel very just underappreciated, especially with everything we've gone
Speaker 1: through with the pandemic, and they've just been dismissive of
Speaker 1: what we're um, what our needs are and anything, especially
Speaker 1: like like the like the calling in sick too much,
Speaker 1: just like well, yeah, okay, maybe your nurses wouldn't be
Speaker 1: getting sick if you were making them work with no people,
Speaker 1: like with PPE a pandemic, like Jesus Christ. Oh, It's
Speaker 1: just it's just comical the arguments as they have, I know,
Speaker 1: and like we don't we can't ever get vacation that
Speaker 1: we're asking for. I mean, one of one of our
Speaker 1: proposals is just to get a two week block vacation
Speaker 1: for every nurse in the hospital, guaranteed every year. Um,
Speaker 1: because we don't even get that. We we have a
Speaker 1: cap on our vacation hours and then we get denied
Speaker 1: our vacation constantly, people calling sick because we need a
Speaker 1: day off. We need a break. Yeah, we're out. Like yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: Like okay, like if you have vacation hours, but you
Speaker 1: can't use them, you don't actually have them, Like it's
Speaker 1: not how this works exactly. Yeah, it's it's a benefit
Speaker 1: they control. Yeah. One of the things that I've been
Speaker 1: reading about that you've all been fighting for. That it's
Speaker 1: really interesting to me because it's something I've seen in
Speaker 1: a few other struggles kind of proposed, but never like
Speaker 1: really like put in the center of the thing is
Speaker 1: talking about like all right, like giving giving giving workers
Speaker 1: a role in staffing decisions. Yeah, yeah, you can you
Speaker 1: talk about that because that that's really interesting to me. Yeah,
Speaker 1: absolutely so. Um, I mean, currently we don't own our profession,
Speaker 1: We have no say in staffing ratios. The hospitals decide
Speaker 1: um what is safe care, and they're doing it absolutely wrong. Um.
Speaker 1: So we want to be able to take that back
Speaker 1: and control that and to say this is what we
Speaker 1: need because our patients are sicker. Um, they're staying longer
Speaker 1: in the hospital, and in order to provide safer care,
Speaker 1: we you know, these need this many nurses for this
Speaker 1: many patients. Um. So what would that be on like
Speaker 1: a sort of like Okay, you like you have a negotiation.
Speaker 1: You said, this is this is like the like this
Speaker 1: is just the ratio is just like a data this
Speaker 1: is an individual, day to day thing. Um. Yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: wondering how this would work. Yeah, right now, let's see.
Speaker 1: I know we are asking for like a committee that's
Speaker 1: made up of I mean administrative staff but also nurses.
Speaker 1: But we want the nurses to be able to have
Speaker 1: the power to implement policies and change um if they
Speaker 1: think it needs to be done. Yeah. So it would
Speaker 1: be like a grid review. I think it's nearly as
Speaker 1: what we're asking for, um, but can be up to
Speaker 1: quarterly if need be. Kind of just depending on what
Speaker 1: we're hearing from other employees on other units. Um. So.
Speaker 1: I I think it's kind of like on a a
Speaker 1: week to week evaluation to see what's working in it's not. Um.
Speaker 1: I know. The hospital's argument for that is it would
Speaker 1: take nurses away from the bedside, but in reality that
Speaker 1: doesn't make any sense. In reality, it would retain staff. Yeah. Well,
Speaker 1: and also okay, it's like, oh no, we've we've we've
Speaker 1: taken a nurse away from the bedside for one hour
Speaker 1: to go to a committee meeting where they say we
Speaker 1: could put more nurses in and like we watched this
Speaker 1: committee like made outside of UM like that like those
Speaker 1: nurses schedules, and then we also want them to be
Speaker 1: paid for their time. Hospital disagrees with all of that.
Speaker 1: They don't even want to pay nurses for their time
Speaker 1: to create safe staffing ratios. It's hard. So like the
Speaker 1: people that are empowered, they're just a bunch of narcissists,
Speaker 1: that's all they are. UM, and that's the only way
Speaker 1: to remain in power is to have no empathy for
Speaker 1: your employees. So that is what we're up against. So
Speaker 1: every negotiation, I feel like I'm just arguing with a
Speaker 1: two year old. Yeah, I mean it really like they
Speaker 1: really seem like a kind of people who you can
Speaker 1: only actually the only language they understand is power, and
Speaker 1: like the only way you can get invest them of
Speaker 1: anything is just like whacking them over the head with it.
Speaker 1: Which David Graper had this thing about UM. It was
Speaker 1: it him. I think he had this thing about how
Speaker 1: like the trying to think of how he actually phrased it.
Speaker 1: It was basically like, Okay, if if you have a
Speaker 1: lot of like if you have like a large amount
Speaker 1: of actual physical power over someone, you don't need to
Speaker 1: like use eloquent arguments at all. You can just sort
Speaker 1: of like tell them what to do and they have
Speaker 1: to do it. And like, the less actual physical power
Speaker 1: you have, the more you have to sort of like
Speaker 1: use argumentation to convince people to do things. And this
Speaker 1: really seems like the peak of cure. A bunch of
Speaker 1: people who have been so powerful for so long they
Speaker 1: don't even like they don't even know how to make
Speaker 1: a compelling argument because I've never had to. All all
Speaker 1: they all they've ever had to do is use brute force,
Speaker 1: And it like sucks trying to use like logic and
Speaker 1: reason against people who like by design don't know and
Speaker 1: don't want to know how to do this because if
Speaker 1: if they if they're ever in a position where they
Speaker 1: have to, it means that their power has been diminished.
Speaker 1: Mm hmm exactly. Well. And also nurses like we're natural
Speaker 1: people pleasers were like kind of a we can be
Speaker 1: a little more submissive, and we've been like that for
Speaker 1: years and we're finally standing up for ourselves. And they
Speaker 1: really don't have arguments. Yeah, I mean, it's like they're
Speaker 1: killing people, Like it's like they're they're killing people for
Speaker 1: money that there's not like there's not actual mortal destiny
Speaker 1: patients here exactly. I know. Yeah, it's just God, what
Speaker 1: a terrible way to run a health care system. Like
Speaker 1: just oh I know, and um, I know a lot
Speaker 1: of hospitals are getting more into like creating executive care
Speaker 1: and executive hospitals executive clinics and which all that is
Speaker 1: is just a hospital that is just dedicated to exactly
Speaker 1: like the elites. And you would pay that hospital like
Speaker 1: a country club membership, so like to under granted or
Speaker 1: whatever it's. They're not going to take Medicare, they're not
Speaker 1: going to take Medicaid. Um, it'll be strictly out of pocket,
Speaker 1: not insurance, out of pocket um money. And you can
Speaker 1: just get all of the care you need at that
Speaker 1: one facility. Um, it'll have all specialties, you can see
Speaker 1: them same day, you can text your doctor. It's just
Speaker 1: health care that's just on demand and readily available for
Speaker 1: those people that can pay it. I know. I mean meanwhile,
Speaker 1: everyone else is like waiting seventeen hours with like a
Speaker 1: hole in them in a hallway exactly like fair View
Speaker 1: is one of the hospital chains in our UM in
Speaker 1: Minnesota and they're creating a thousand bad hospital for the
Speaker 1: ultra elite. They're going to be doing that soon. And
Speaker 1: then they're also bargaining with the nurses and saying that
Speaker 1: they don't have money to pay them raises, they don't
Speaker 1: have money to give them family leaves, they don't have
Speaker 1: money to UM create better staffing models, you know. And
Speaker 1: one of the things I keep hearing about this is
Speaker 1: they're like, oh, like the rich hospitals will subsidize the
Speaker 1: ones that don't make money. It's like, no, they won't, Like,
Speaker 1: you're just gonna you're just going to keep all of
Speaker 1: that money and continue not funding the poorer hospitals, Like
Speaker 1: you won't you already do this. You can't actually fool
Speaker 1: anyone who has a bit more than two seconds like
Speaker 1: looking at this works exactly. I know. I know they're
Speaker 1: going to prioritize those executive hospitals and just fuddle all
Speaker 1: their money and resources that direction. It'll for sure be
Speaker 1: non union and they will push so much non union propaganda.
Speaker 1: Athles abilities two mm hmmm, Yeah sucks, not suck it.
Speaker 1: It does suck, I know, And just a lot of
Speaker 1: people don't know about it. It's scary what we're what
Speaker 1: we're heading towards, and that's that's that's what we're fighting for,
Speaker 1: our fighting against. And I mean, I mean, I will
Speaker 1: say like I do feel like a lot of the
Speaker 1: I don't know, I've been thinking about this a lot,
Speaker 1: with like what happened in and like why that kind
Speaker 1: of thing happens, And I think a lot of like, Okay,
Speaker 1: there is an extent to which people sort of don't
Speaker 1: care about violence. There's an extent to which people like
Speaker 1: are able to sort of like rationalize it. But but
Speaker 1: I think there is an extent to which, like the
Speaker 1: average person on the street has no idea this is
Speaker 1: happening until there's like sitting in a hospital room, and
Speaker 1: then they don't understand why it's happening, and so I think, yeah,
Speaker 1: like I I don't like this. This is not an
Speaker 1: acceptable state of affairs, and I think I don't know,
Speaker 1: like the one people starting to fight back, and then
Speaker 1: when people like actually know about what is happening, I
Speaker 1: think it's gonna be like hopefully it will become harder
Speaker 1: and harder for them to do this stuff, because you know, hey,
Speaker 1: like yeah, people are literally dying and being like previously
Speaker 1: injured because the hospital refuses to pay more. Exactly. No,
Speaker 1: they just the hospitals just push that propaganda that they're underfunded,
Speaker 1: they can't afford stance, they can't afford this, and there's
Speaker 1: a nursing shortage and there's nothing they can do about it.
Speaker 1: And it's actually there's not a nursing shortage at all.
Speaker 1: There's a shorge and nurses that want to deal with
Speaker 1: this ship. Yeah, they're just leaving the bedside for better jobs.
Speaker 1: I think the thing I wanted to sort of start
Speaker 1: closing on is about like, okay, like that there there
Speaker 1: is some negotiation going on about pay raises because hey,
Speaker 1: guess what inflation is happening, etcetera, etcetera. But like the
Speaker 1: extent to which the negotiations aren't about like a aren't
Speaker 1: about pay because this is something we've been seeing. I mean,
Speaker 1: this is a this is a thing with the with
Speaker 1: the rail strike that's temporarily been averted. This is the
Speaker 1: thing there has been a thing in a lot of places.
Speaker 1: It's been a thing that's been driving people out of
Speaker 1: the workplace just everywhere. Is that. Yeah, like it's like
Speaker 1: this strike isn't really like if I think it's like
Speaker 1: I don't know, okay to tell me this is wrong.
Speaker 1: I don't think the strike would have happened if it
Speaker 1: had just been people not getting paid enough, like I
Speaker 1: I think if there was adequate staffing, and I think
Speaker 1: if there was like if people weren't paying for us
Speaker 1: to take more patients, like there wouldn't be a strike
Speaker 1: right now or there wouldn't have been a strike. Yeah. Possibly, Yeah,
Speaker 1: for sure. I think, Um, we're definitely not paid our worth,
Speaker 1: but also that's not all we want. There's definitely way
Speaker 1: more to it. Um yeah, it's um, we just we
Speaker 1: want to reclaim our profession. Yeah. Like it seems like
Speaker 1: it really seems like they're like the stuff that's happening,
Speaker 1: and I think sort of broadly like is like it's
Speaker 1: not just sort of about conversation. It's about the fact
Speaker 1: that for I mean my entire lifetime for like twenty
Speaker 1: five years, but like before that, like employers have had
Speaker 1: almost limited power and they've used are almost limited power
Speaker 1: to just make everyone's lives absolutely living hell. And they've
Speaker 1: they've used it to sort of like just to force
Speaker 1: to force people to work hours that are like unbelievable,
Speaker 1: to force people to like, you know, like like force
Speaker 1: people to stand there with like like cans so they
Speaker 1: can pee into while they're still on an assembly line.
Speaker 1: Force people just like this, like unbelievably just sort of
Speaker 1: horrible and degrading stuff. That's like it's like, no, you
Speaker 1: can't actually just fix this with higher wages. You actually
Speaker 1: have to change, like something actually has to change about
Speaker 1: how the workplace works, because otherwise people are just going
Speaker 1: to stop. Exactly, yeah, exactly, Um yeah, I know. One
Speaker 1: of our proposals, we want to work a max of
Speaker 1: three twelve hours shifts in a row because right now
Speaker 1: our contract says we can't work more than seven twelve
Speaker 1: hours shifts in a row, and we obviously that is
Speaker 1: way too much and that's something that would mean even
Speaker 1: even three is like like, isn't it really? Like every
Speaker 1: single time I read one of these things, it's like okay,
Speaker 1: like hey, I like, yeah, okay, we we we we
Speaker 1: want for only one of our fingers to be cut
Speaker 1: off per shift instead of four, And it's like this
Speaker 1: is like, oh God, It's like the demands are incredibly
Speaker 1: reasonable considering being asked to do, Like Jesus, don't all,
Speaker 1: oh yeah, we want the hospitals to have six months
Speaker 1: of PPE on hand at all times. They've already declined that. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, who who who needs PPE? Like
Speaker 1: really everyone in the splice She's like, oh who who
Speaker 1: needs to have? Who who needs to have? Like stories
Speaker 1: of critical spare parts? No one. This this will never
Speaker 1: come back to haunts. We will never be in any
Speaker 1: position where we said you don't have the spirit parts?
Speaker 1: Oh my god, yeah, I know. Um, we have a
Speaker 1: pandemic proposal we want, um, we want to pass and
Speaker 1: that's just to give the nurses the power to decide
Speaker 1: um what we need when another pandemic hits, um, to
Speaker 1: provide SafeCare and like safety for ourselves. Um. Yeah. The
Speaker 1: hospital didn't include us on any decisions during the pandemic.
Speaker 1: It was yeah, we were just used and abused. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and we had to use our own stick time and
Speaker 1: vacation if we were exposed or if we had quarantines.
Speaker 1: So if we're diagnosed with COVID yeah, which also like,
Speaker 1: but did you get COVID? What is happening? Um, I've
Speaker 1: only had it once that I know of. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: mean that okay oldly had it once. It's like I
Speaker 1: don't know anyone who worked as a nurse who didn't
Speaker 1: get COVID at least once, and most of them got
Speaker 1: it at least twice. Oh yeah, just god, I don't know.
Speaker 1: It's just so bleak, like I know, and it just
Speaker 1: depended on like your patient population. I'm in surgery, so
Speaker 1: I'm a little more like guarded from that um COVID population.
Speaker 1: You know, we only did surgery if if UM they
Speaker 1: really needed it done and if they were positive for COVID,
Speaker 1: so we kind of got to pick and choose a
Speaker 1: little bit. Um. But other nurses obviously they could not
Speaker 1: avoid COVID. Yeah, yeah, I don't It's just god, like,
Speaker 1: I can't just go like just this is just the
Speaker 1: worst possible way you can run a medical system. And
Speaker 1: it is just I know, and I know, like I
Speaker 1: know in UM let see, Sandford is another big hospital,
Speaker 1: joint giant that's like in South Dakota, North Dakota, and
Speaker 1: I'm from South Dakota, so that's kind of all like
Speaker 1: really hits home for me. UM is they're hiring seven
Speaker 1: foreign nurses, like from Venezuela, Mexico wherever. Um as like
Speaker 1: they're pretty much using them as travel nurses um just
Speaker 1: to avoid actual travel nurses here UM. They will bring
Speaker 1: them here um by and they'll sign like a three
Speaker 1: year contract UM. The hospital will provide housing for them,
Speaker 1: and they will drop wages significantly. In the nursing world,
Speaker 1: especially in South Dakota and North Dakota, they're definitely not
Speaker 1: going to be paid their worth. I know they're going
Speaker 1: to be exploited more than we are. I had family
Speaker 1: like that actually did the antelocole is talking about who
Speaker 1: are doctors, Like, we're in North Dakota for a bit
Speaker 1: and they were just like this is the worst, and
Speaker 1: they like they left for like they left for a
Speaker 1: vast improvement and being in a hospital in Nebraska, which
Speaker 1: is like yeah. And I also like I want to
Speaker 1: talk about this a little bit because this is like
Speaker 1: a this is interesting what the Philippines too, where like
Speaker 1: there's there's like there are a whole industries of like
Speaker 1: basically training people and then shipping them to the US
Speaker 1: so they can be like just horribly exploited. Um. And
Speaker 1: then that's been like one of the things that's been
Speaker 1: like I don't know, like bolstering the profits of the
Speaker 1: medical sector for a long time is step usually just
Speaker 1: like import people and exploit them and yeah, and like
Speaker 1: the fact that they're like, oh god, this is some
Speaker 1: like the the fact that these people are gonna be
Speaker 1: like living in like houses that are owned by their
Speaker 1: bosses is some real like yeah gilded age ship. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, well, I mean the thing I think it
Speaker 1: most like this is this is like standard practice in China,
Speaker 1: for example, and it's a disaster. Like I like, I
Speaker 1: don't I don't know if people have ever like actually
Speaker 1: seen pictures of what the inside of these dormitories look like,
Speaker 1: but like it is like these are you get a
Speaker 1: room that is like smaller from the college dorm room
Speaker 1: that doesn't have air conditioning that like I don't know,
Speaker 1: I I we talked about it on this show, like
Speaker 1: the h We talked about a worker like a couple
Speaker 1: of weeks ago who like died from the heat wave
Speaker 1: because when he came home, I mean, keep people working
Speaker 1: a bunch of shifts and he had to work like
Speaker 1: he had to work a shift in like a hundred
Speaker 1: and four degrees like loading stuff onto a train, and
Speaker 1: he came back home there's no reconditioning, and he's in
Speaker 1: this tunty apartment and he died in his bed because
Speaker 1: you know, it was it was too hot, and like
Speaker 1: like this is the kind of stuff that happens, especially
Speaker 1: when you have like like when when when you're sleeping
Speaker 1: in corporate dormatories and we're sleeping in a place that
Speaker 1: like your boss owns, Like this is the ship that happens,
Speaker 1: and it's really really bleak. And I hope these people
Speaker 1: are able to unionize and like fight their bosses, but like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't know it. Yeah, well, I mean fear of
Speaker 1: being exiled. I highly doubt they're going to be able
Speaker 1: to unionize. Yeah, because yeah, because I mean guess everything,
Speaker 1: like like the way the visa process works, right, Like
Speaker 1: it's really easy to like if someone's here to work
Speaker 1: visa and then suddenly you're like, oh, hey, I want
Speaker 1: to unionize, it's like, well, nope, screw you. You don't
Speaker 1: have a job anymore. We're gonna get you deported. Yeah, exactly,
Speaker 1: which I mean, I guess. It's it's it's you know,
Speaker 1: it's it's it's another one of those things where like
Speaker 1: like all of the different sort of disparate like fights
Speaker 1: people are having are connected like like this, this this
Speaker 1: wouldn't be happening, like if we didn't have the sort
Speaker 1: of border regime that we have right now, Like okay,
Speaker 1: if firmigration system wasn't just like you know and like
Speaker 1: and it just like if it wasn't just like a
Speaker 1: giant like torture machine for millions of people, the stuff
Speaker 1: wouldn't be happening if you weren't in this sort of
Speaker 1: moments of like you know, if you if you weren't
Speaker 1: at a moment where the power of unions has been
Speaker 1: collapsing for decades, Like if you weren't, if you weren't
Speaker 1: in a place where like I mean even even even
Speaker 1: sort of like on on on the level of Obama
Speaker 1: going like we're not gonna like we're gonna make our
Speaker 1: healthcare system worse because it will cost insurance jobs if
Speaker 1: you make it any better, Like it's like uh yeah,
Speaker 1: Like like I feel like I feel like the medical
Speaker 1: sector is like like people do working in healthcare is
Speaker 1: like it's one of these places where just like every
Speaker 1: possible it's it's kind of it's kind of like prisons
Speaker 1: where it's like like everything that's gone wrong in our
Speaker 1: society just like gets focused into like one nexus point
Speaker 1: and it's the point where people have to go where
Speaker 1: they die, I know. And the only thing that's holding
Speaker 1: hospitals accountable are unions in this country. Yeah, if there
Speaker 1: was no unions, the wages would be much lower. And
Speaker 1: I don't even know where healthcare would be right now. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't know. Not good. I mean, like I can't
Speaker 1: I can keep going back the China because it's like
Speaker 1: that's like the other healthcare system as a disaster that
Speaker 1: like I have family and and it's like, well, I mean,
Speaker 1: I guess the thing that's been happening in the U
Speaker 1: S two of like the increasing violence you can staff,
Speaker 1: but like China has a huge, a huge problem with
Speaker 1: basically riots breaking out because people like someone's family member
Speaker 1: dies because their their care was really bad, and so
Speaker 1: they'll just be like riot and people will go tack
Speaker 1: the doctors and it's like yeah, it's like okay, like
Speaker 1: I get why they're doing this, but it's like it sucks.
Speaker 1: And this is this is a huge problem they've had
Speaker 1: with with retention because their numbers are like they're they're
Speaker 1: like their staff to patient ratios are unreal awful and yeah,
Speaker 1: and like you know, like that that that kind of
Speaker 1: stuff makes health care systems fall apart. Absolutely, yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and that's kind of like they've been doing that here.
Speaker 1: I mean, hospitals have been demonizing nurses instead of like
Speaker 1: actually saying that they do have institutional failures and it's
Speaker 1: their faults and we're only as strong as like the
Speaker 1: safety protocols and policies that are in place. Yeah, and
Speaker 1: like I mean, like the best nurse in the world
Speaker 1: can't be three nurses, like yeah, exactly, yeah, yeah, and yeah,
Speaker 1: so if they kind of do this for a nursing deal, um,
Speaker 1: I mean South Dakota, North Dakota their right to work states,
Speaker 1: so they it's almost impossible to unionize. You can, but
Speaker 1: it's it takes a lot of work. Uh. But when
Speaker 1: most your staff is already travelers, like I was told
Speaker 1: by another nurse, like in North Dakota, Sanford their staff
Speaker 1: is travelers, Well, how the help can you even attempt
Speaker 1: to unionize? And that's that's the goal of hospitals is
Speaker 1: just to create so much turnover where yeah, I mean, yes,
Speaker 1: just turning hospitals into Amazon, which the system meditoriously works great,
Speaker 1: it's exactly. And travelers are less likely to speak up
Speaker 1: because they're just afraid of their contract being canceled or
Speaker 1: they're going to be blacklisted. And blacklisted just means like
Speaker 1: there's a um common website that all hospital as will
Speaker 1: go on just to look at travel nurses that are
Speaker 1: recommended um not to call or not to give a
Speaker 1: contract to Jesus yeah exactly so, and you can blacklist
Speaker 1: a nurse for any reason, um yeah, and the reasons
Speaker 1: they're not disclosed. It just says do not call next
Speaker 1: to that name. Well, but completely ruins their travel career. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's like it's amazing. It's so formalized. Like I know
Speaker 1: people have been blacklisted from other professions, but it was
Speaker 1: like very like it was kind of an under the
Speaker 1: table thing. This is just like not a not We're
Speaker 1: we were literally going to put your name on a
Speaker 1: list that everyone just has, Like oh god, yeah exactly.
Speaker 1: So if there is, you know, think the issues at
Speaker 1: a hospital, those nurses are less likely to speak up
Speaker 1: and they're less likely to even you know, leave their
Speaker 1: contract because they're afraid of retaliation like that. It just
Speaker 1: incentivizes just a terrible care. Yeah okay, well well well
Speaker 1: we have now spent an enormous amount of time talking
Speaker 1: about how unbelievably messed up. This whole system is, um,
Speaker 1: what can people do to a help this strike and
Speaker 1: be like, will help with contract negotiations and be like,
Speaker 1: just in general, try to fight for better health care
Speaker 1: for people. I know I've been asked that a lot too. UM.
Speaker 1: We do have a website with um M and a
Speaker 1: Minnesota nursing association where we do like to have people
Speaker 1: share their stories about surprise bills or firsthand experiences with understaffing, UM,
Speaker 1: et cetera. UM. And that's something like we've just been
Speaker 1: kind of collecting stories, UM, just so we can kind
Speaker 1: of keep exposing UM the corruption. UM. Also, donating to
Speaker 1: our strike fund is always much appreciated. Yeah, yeah, we
Speaker 1: will put it out a link to that in the description. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's how you create change, just this public pressure. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Do you do you have anywhere else anything else that
Speaker 1: you want to say? I don't think so. I don't
Speaker 1: think so. I feel like I covered a lot UM. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I just wanted to bring awareness to this topic. Yeah,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for bringing on the show. I'm
Speaker 1: for talking to us about this because yeah, this is
Speaker 1: definitely something that people need to hear and I'm really
Speaker 1: glad you were able to join us. Thank you for
Speaker 1: having me appreciate it. Yeah, this has been NI could
Speaker 1: happen here a podcast by cools On Media, and I
Speaker 1: guess also my heart. Uh yeah, you can find us
Speaker 1: in the usual places. Uh yeah, make make the world
Speaker 1: a better place for nurses in a worse place for
Speaker 1: hospital executives. Yes, it could happen here. It's not it's
Speaker 1: not October yet, but this is a preview of kind
Speaker 1: of how I'll be recording certain things when Halloween gets near.
Speaker 1: So I'm done with my work for the day. The
Speaker 1: rest of you didn't take over. Now, I guess that
Speaker 1: that's me high yep, it's me. It's Christopher. What is that?
Speaker 1: What is this episode about? Christopher? Is it about? No?
Speaker 1: This is this is about a thing that did not
Speaker 1: happen somewhere else, which I guess is slightly off kilter
Speaker 1: for us. But yeah, it also with me is Garrison
Speaker 1: and Treen and Sophie and yeah, yeah, excellent. Alright, seems
Speaker 1: like the episodes started. Good work, everybody, all right, we
Speaker 1: did it. We got there. We've we've've gotten through the introduction.
Speaker 1: Now we can get to a conspiracy theory. That's been
Speaker 1: like all over Twitter, but not kind of in the
Speaker 1: usual places where you'd expect a conspiracy theory to be
Speaker 1: on Twitter, and that is this whole thing where an
Speaker 1: enormous number of people were convinced that she Jumping had
Speaker 1: been ounced it in a coup and that he was
Speaker 1: being held by the army under house arrest. And okay,
Speaker 1: so we're recording this earlier today. I think She Jumping
Speaker 1: like reappeared and it, you know, we had the final
Speaker 1: definitive proof that he had not in fact been like
Speaker 1: disappeared by the Chinese Army. Yeah, yeah, I remember the
Speaker 1: way I encountered this was Twitter informingly that people were
Speaker 1: like discussing it, and I spent like three seconds looking
Speaker 1: at what accounts were saying that Jim Ping was being
Speaker 1: fucking coud, and it was all like, um, I don't know,
Speaker 1: uh anime tip Goblin four to three, like like analyzing
Speaker 1: satellite photos and stuff like, no, we don't I'm just
Speaker 1: gonna I'm just gonna wait to hear what's up with
Speaker 1: this one? Great? Yeah, someone actually did like sorry, like
Speaker 1: a like a word cloud of like like a network
Speaker 1: map of who was spreading it, and it was it
Speaker 1: counts with names like that. Yeah, I mean, and it
Speaker 1: has spawned like articles from outer zera. It's way worse
Speaker 1: than that. It's way worse than that. Like okay, well,
Speaker 1: I always skip ahead a slight bit to uh. The
Speaker 1: place we were at two days ago was the Republic
Speaker 1: Media Network, which is like was one of the biggest
Speaker 1: news networks in in India. I saw some I saw
Speaker 1: a source claiming they get a hundred and fifty five
Speaker 1: million views a week because literally in the world. They
Speaker 1: were literally running a China watcher's parody tweet, like like
Speaker 1: he had they had a China watch. A guy had
Speaker 1: a thread that was like him making fun of it,
Speaker 1: that was like him walking to like red and empty
Speaker 1: places and being like this is a coup, and they
Speaker 1: like they st it up ran the like his tweets
Speaker 1: like as a news story about the coup, like unreal bullshit,
Speaker 1: Like I I know, oh boy, well, this is again
Speaker 1: a point we make regularly on on all of our shows.
Speaker 1: But like you can't, you can't have that kind of
Speaker 1: fun anymore, Like it just immediately gets picked up and weaponized,
Speaker 1: like making making jokes about like fake oh yeah, idiots
Speaker 1: are spreading bullshit about a coup. I'm gonna make fakeku news. Well, congratulations,
Speaker 1: now you've convinced the third of India that there's a
Speaker 1: coup in China. Yeah, Like I think like the China
Speaker 1: watchers I think were like because okay, like and this
Speaker 1: is the thing where there there are there are very
Speaker 1: specific China watch people. I am very mad at because
Speaker 1: when when when they were interviewed by the press, when
Speaker 1: they were writing about it, they were like, Wow, the
Speaker 1: coup could kind of be plausible, but it's not happen.
Speaker 1: It's like no, no, it's not, it is not. I'm sorry,
Speaker 1: Like it is a joke. Like any anyone who actually
Speaker 1: plausibly suggests that j Ping is going to get overthrown
Speaker 1: in a coup is not serious. This is not a
Speaker 1: serious person. This kind of happened, like this is this
Speaker 1: is this is like this is like fucking like Steve
Speaker 1: Bannon is getting the death penalty ship Like it's actually
Speaker 1: less plausible than that, Like it's it's nonsense, Like there's
Speaker 1: and when you say because I'm not I'm not a
Speaker 1: China government now, or when you say it's impossible, is
Speaker 1: it just because like we have a long history of
Speaker 1: what happens when like people who are in power in
Speaker 1: the Chinese Communist Party lose power and it's not coup's well,
Speaker 1: I mean here's the thing, right, so people will make
Speaker 1: a there's like there's like a whole big thing about
Speaker 1: how like Hu Jintao was like the first like successful
Speaker 1: like like non violent like like transition of power in
Speaker 1: Chinese history, and like that's kind of true like in
Speaker 1: the modern CCP because like so after Mao, there's another
Speaker 1: guy who takes power and he gets like fucked up
Speaker 1: by Dan Jo Ping and like his sort of minions.
Speaker 1: But like, okay, so the first thing you have to
Speaker 1: understand about this, and this is something that's gonna come
Speaker 1: up later here is that the Chinese Army is not
Speaker 1: going to stage a coup. Like this is impossible. It
Speaker 1: is not going to happen. The Chinese Army is not
Speaker 1: a political faction that works like this. There has never
Speaker 1: been like that. The Chinese Army has never done a coup,
Speaker 1: like like the Army of the People's Liberation Army has
Speaker 1: never done into coup. That's not how this works. It
Speaker 1: is it is like it is insane. It is like
Speaker 1: just bafflingly incomprehensible that anyone would think they could do this,
Speaker 1: because they can't. Like this, this is this is this
Speaker 1: is not what, this is not what the p l
Speaker 1: A is as an institution. Insofar as people get overthrown
Speaker 1: inside of the party, it's by other people in the
Speaker 1: party doing like factional maneuvering against them, and that can
Speaker 1: sort of happen. But like, okay, this is the year two.
Speaker 1: She jumping has basically like clawbered everyone in the party who,
Speaker 1: like anyone who was actually going to present a serious
Speaker 1: challenge to him, like was claubed like ten years ago,
Speaker 1: so I mean ten tens probably slightly overseight, but like,
Speaker 1: you know, he he just finished part part of the
Speaker 1: background to the stories that he just finished purging like
Speaker 1: a few of his like last remaining like kind of
Speaker 1: seriously not even really serious, but like he's did another
Speaker 1: one of anti corruption purges and he's like had a
Speaker 1: guide like executed for corruption, right, Like this isn't like
Speaker 1: that that that that's how stuff actually works in the
Speaker 1: party is someone gets arrested for corruption and then put
Speaker 1: in prison for a long time or killed like but
Speaker 1: like like you know, executed for like corruption like that
Speaker 1: that that's how this actually works. There's there's like there
Speaker 1: are no cups. This is bullshit. I'm gonna yell at
Speaker 1: China watch her specifically who was talking about this like
Speaker 1: at the end of this episode, because I'm mad about it, um,
Speaker 1: like so like and obviously like right now like obviously
Speaker 1: today like singas we appeared in public, so like this
Speaker 1: is obviously bullshit. Uh, five days ago, if we turned
Speaker 1: back the clock, it was exactly as bullshit as it
Speaker 1: was then. But there's there is some other contexts here,
Speaker 1: which is that So one of the reasons why anyone
Speaker 1: is even talking about this in the first place is
Speaker 1: that UM, on October six, which is like a bit
Speaker 1: over two weeks from now, uh, the CCP is going
Speaker 1: to have the National Congress of the Chinese Communist Party.
Speaker 1: And this this is like the big one, right like
Speaker 1: every five years, like the whole party gets together, and
Speaker 1: it's where they choose the members of the Pullet Bureau,
Speaker 1: and it's where they choose the members of the absolutely
Speaker 1: terribly named Pullet Bureau Standing Committee of the Chinese Communist Party.
Speaker 1: And there's like another thing. There's like another like all
Speaker 1: this stuff is like it's it's based on like like
Speaker 1: this the structure of like this is based on the
Speaker 1: party structure that the Bolsheviks set up. What would be
Speaker 1: the kind of comparison to this for American There really
Speaker 1: is there not not. I mean it's it's kind of
Speaker 1: like like the closest thing would be a presidential election.
Speaker 1: But imagine if a presidential election was like like I
Speaker 1: imagine if presidential election was one party got together and
Speaker 1: that chose the president. So it is it's it's a
Speaker 1: committee that kind of gets the different bureautic leaders of
Speaker 1: different sectors. Well it's it's it's also much like so
Speaker 1: it's basically like it has all of the leader sort
Speaker 1: of like going down like the ranks of the party
Speaker 1: like that you have like like each like like city
Speaker 1: or whatever, like people will you send delegates to it?
Speaker 1: Like originally it was like like back in like the
Speaker 1: like when the Bolsheviks. You're doing this in in like
Speaker 1: nineteen nineteen nineteen, right, Like it's okay, the like these
Speaker 1: are based off of like like the whole party, like
Speaker 1: like the bullshit party would have a congress and all
Speaker 1: of the sort of leading organizers and all like everyone
Speaker 1: like all the sort of like local party factions were
Speaker 1: like elected person and they would set a delegate to
Speaker 1: the thing and then they would all fight out and
Speaker 1: figure out what their policy was going to be. Now
Speaker 1: it's like there's I mean, they're there are power striggles,
Speaker 1: I go on, but the whole like this is an
Speaker 1: actual representative of like a mass party thing is just
Speaker 1: sort of gone. It's just this, this is this is
Speaker 1: sort of like what what what was actually gonna happen
Speaker 1: at this one is we're going to see exactly how
Speaker 1: much power like she j and Ping is gonna take
Speaker 1: because he's I mean, the big story that was talking
Speaker 1: about is like she'simping at the last one of these,
Speaker 1: like well not the last one of these. It was
Speaker 1: it was, it was it was a different congress. But
Speaker 1: he he was able to like eliminate the two term
Speaker 1: limit on Chinese leaders that have been imposed sort of
Speaker 1: like after Mao because people were like maybe this is
Speaker 1: a bad idea. So she's gonna he's gonna get it,
Speaker 1: Like he's gonna get get a third term. There's a
Speaker 1: bunch of debate over like exactly how much power he's
Speaker 1: going to get and like what titles he's gonna get
Speaker 1: but like I don't know, I'll do an episode about
Speaker 1: that after it happens. But basically there's there's this all
Speaker 1: there's all the sort of politic intrigue stuff swirling around
Speaker 1: because this is like this is like this is like
Speaker 1: the big political events like of of the sort of
Speaker 1: like modern periods, um the other thing that was happening. Well,
Speaker 1: and this is also why he was like pershing some
Speaker 1: of his opponents because like, well, you know, so, I
Speaker 1: guess the everything we should we could talk about with
Speaker 1: this is like if people have listened to revolutions, like
Speaker 1: this is how Stalin took over the party, which is
Speaker 1: that you figured out that the like the way you
Speaker 1: take over those the state apparatus is by you you
Speaker 1: make yourself that like the head of the Pullit Buro,
Speaker 1: and then you have enough you have like you you need.
Speaker 1: All you need to do is control like three people
Speaker 1: on the Pullit Bureau and you can just sort of
Speaker 1: like dictate policy down inline for the party and this
Speaker 1: gives you, this gives you control the states, like this
Speaker 1: is this is sort of this that's all like that's
Speaker 1: like the like ancestor of this. It's still a very
Speaker 1: similar kind of structure sort of. Um. Mostly it's just like, yeah,
Speaker 1: there's an important political event going on and the other
Speaker 1: things that she Shouping was out of the country, so
Speaker 1: he was doing he was doing a tour of Central
Speaker 1: Asia for like, like he's doing one of those sort
Speaker 1: of like fluff tourious people do of like we're like
Speaker 1: reaffirming or like trade ties and stuff. So he was
Speaker 1: in samarcand and then he came back I think on
Speaker 1: the twenty first, and then he was just sort of
Speaker 1: vanished for a few days. And the reason that he
Speaker 1: vanished was that he was in quarantine, which is the
Speaker 1: thing that like is real in China but everyone else
Speaker 1: has just like forgotten exists. And so he was actually
Speaker 1: doing the thing that like you're supposed to do because
Speaker 1: he was came back from an international trip. Yeah. Well
Speaker 1: and also like, well, I hate to say you've got
Speaker 1: to hand it to Zesi and pain, but I guess
Speaker 1: you've got to hand it to him. That is there
Speaker 1: what you should do after getting back from an international trip.
Speaker 1: Like Jenny Winely, one of the few things that will
Speaker 1: say about is he has gotten COVID less times than
Speaker 1: Joe Biden. He has not gotten COVID right, like he
Speaker 1: hasn't gotten it. And the reason he hasn't gotten is
Speaker 1: because they actually sort of like there are ways in
Speaker 1: which the way that they take COVID policy seriously is nuts,
Speaker 1: Like they are like anti lockdown riots happening right now
Speaker 1: because they locked like an entire like they locked on
Speaker 1: an entire town because one person got COVID, which like whatever,
Speaker 1: and you can you could argue with the COVID policy,
Speaker 1: but they he he doesn't have COVID. So my mind
Speaker 1: that no one was like this might be an option
Speaker 1: of why he's not around. Well, every everyone who was
Speaker 1: like serious, like like anyone who liked you, Yeah, it
Speaker 1: was like it was all nonsense. People who were spreading
Speaker 1: it like it was all it was all random Twitter accounts.
Speaker 1: I think what would kind of the missing piece here
Speaker 1: and what's actually happened is that so those of you
Speaker 1: who have followed my career, uh will know that there's
Speaker 1: a website called Belling Cat that I wrote at that
Speaker 1: has been in the news pretty continuously for the last
Speaker 1: almost ten years because they kind of helped invent the
Speaker 1: modern concept of open source research UM and open source intelligence,
Speaker 1: which has really had its biggest moments since the invasion
Speaker 1: of Ukraine, because suddenly there's all this footage of tanks
Speaker 1: getting blown up, of of Russian soldiers doing this and
Speaker 1: doing that, and of you know, cities change inging hands
Speaker 1: and all this stuff, and people have been following the
Speaker 1: war through a lot of these big O SENT accounts. UM.
Speaker 1: Kind of the last huge moment in O SENT prior
Speaker 1: to the invasion of Ukraine was was January six UM,
Speaker 1: and that was another big moment for people understanding it.
Speaker 1: And kind of one of the popular conceptions of open
Speaker 1: source intelligence is that random guys on the internet are
Speaker 1: getting better intel than you know, the CIA or whatever.
Speaker 1: Which there's a degree to which that that's true, because
Speaker 1: a lot of random people did become experts in stuff like, um,
Speaker 1: you know, different kind of munitions tracking and whatnot, and
Speaker 1: did a better job of tracing certain things than than
Speaker 1: state agencies were doing, which is why like some of
Speaker 1: those people. UM. Anyway, it's a whole long story, but
Speaker 1: the problem is that it's led people to believe that
Speaker 1: the best intelligence often comes from random people on the Internet,
Speaker 1: and no one of the things if you if you're
Speaker 1: trying to evaluate someone who was claiming to provide o
Speaker 1: sent the most one of the most important things to
Speaker 1: do is number one, can you actually trace their work back?
Speaker 1: Is it possible to like follow their they're thinking and
Speaker 1: their conclusions to determine whether or not what they're saying
Speaker 1: is nonsense? And number two, do they have like a
Speaker 1: track record, because like, for example, Eric Toler and Elliot Higgins,
Speaker 1: who I worked with for a while, have like a
Speaker 1: ten year track record of being consistently right about things
Speaker 1: and breaking massive stories and doing stuff like uncovering Russian
Speaker 1: g r U agent operations and stuff. Um and these
Speaker 1: were just random accounts that no one had ever heard
Speaker 1: of on Twitter claiming to have detailed, figured out detailed
Speaker 1: information about a coup in the Chinese government. There's there's
Speaker 1: nothing behind them. Yeah, well it's it's funny too because like, okay,
Speaker 1: so once once, like actual people, we're gonna get this
Speaker 1: a second. Like once actually people started picking it up.
Speaker 1: Like if you just googled any of the people who
Speaker 1: were like writing about this, it's it takes like five
Speaker 1: seconds to figure out this person's just nuts. And but
Speaker 1: nobody did it because it's it's Twitter. And so instead
Speaker 1: of what happened is um so this thing starts like
Speaker 1: on Chinese Twitter, like it's it's people like like yeah,
Speaker 1: it starts on like like the Chinese speaking part of
Speaker 1: like China Twitter. I'm gonna read a thing from the
Speaker 1: Indian News at first post, which like did a kind
Speaker 1: of clean up job of like hey, all of the
Speaker 1: other Indian heulets you're covering this, I've just have just
Speaker 1: completely lost their minds. Here's like what actually sort of happens.
Speaker 1: Um quote. A Twitter account New Highland Vision, which has
Speaker 1: over followers, wrote on September that former Chinese President Hu
Speaker 1: Jintao and former Premier When Jaibao, had persuaded Song Ping,
Speaker 1: the former member of the Pull Up Euro Standing Committee,
Speaker 1: to take control of the Central Guard Bureau from she.
Speaker 1: So I don't My guess is that makes no sense
Speaker 1: to anyone on like anything. Yeah, so this is Jim Well, okay,
Speaker 1: so what this is? This is some like old school,
Speaker 1: very very weird like old school Chinese inside baseball ship. Um.
Speaker 1: The first thing you should know about this is this
Speaker 1: is completely The first way you can tell this is
Speaker 1: nonsense is that Song Ping is not doing shit, and
Speaker 1: Song Ping is not doing ship because this man is
Speaker 1: a hundred and five five years old. This man was
Speaker 1: born in seventeen. Baby, it's his time, It's his turn,
Speaker 1: you know what. Credit to China. I thought we lived
Speaker 1: in a cliptocracy run by like an aging Ghougle cast.
Speaker 1: But damn, hundreds of five the queen could have lived
Speaker 1: so much longer, like to be fair, to try to
Speaker 1: have this guy's like three generations out like this is okay.
Speaker 1: So the sort of like fantasy here is like kujent
Speaker 1: Tao like taking power, and hugent Tao is like he
Speaker 1: was one of the guys who came in like like
Speaker 1: when he kind of made his bones, like purging the
Speaker 1: people in the CCP who would like hadn't been hard
Speaker 1: enough on the Janaman protesters. But he's he's like he's
Speaker 1: one of the sort of perform and opening guys. Um
Speaker 1: like song Ping is like one of the guys who
Speaker 1: like helped like kojent Tao advanced on them, like kojent Tau.
Speaker 1: It's like a guy from like the nineties, right, Like
Speaker 1: these are like like people who at one point we're
Speaker 1: genuinely powerful and are now like I don't know, I mean,
Speaker 1: there's persistent rumors they do stuff behind the scenes, but
Speaker 1: like it's it's I don't know. They are like unbelievably
Speaker 1: and ferociously decrepit. H Okay, do you know what else
Speaker 1: is unbelievably and ferociously decrepit done, um, the gold company
Speaker 1: that's now advertising. Guys, listen, listeners, you're you're probably gonna
Speaker 1: hear some gold ads from very They're very silly ads.
Speaker 1: People do seem to be enjoying them. I'm gonna tell
Speaker 1: you two things. Number one, don't buy gold. The only
Speaker 1: precious medals you should invest if you're going to invest
Speaker 1: in precious medals, which I don't necessarily recommend, the only
Speaker 1: ones you should invest in our lead, hand and brass. Yeah. Um,
Speaker 1: but yeah, I don't care about these. Like look when
Speaker 1: the fucking c i A or the FBI or the
Speaker 1: Washington State Highway Patrol is advertising on our show. We
Speaker 1: if those ads are moved, I don't care. You're not
Speaker 1: gonna buy gold. Don't buy gold, but we'll take their
Speaker 1: money and we'll use it to pay our salaries. It's fine, Like,
Speaker 1: enjoy it. We're back, boy. You know what, guys, I
Speaker 1: said what I just said there, and I just bought
Speaker 1: a hundred and thirty seven thousand dollars in gold. I'm
Speaker 1: gonna I'm gonna go bury it right now. Actually exactly exactly.
Speaker 1: I can't even buy gold. I'm allergic to it for
Speaker 1: really yeah, I really really really yeah, I'm not going
Speaker 1: to be rich. I didn't know you could be allergic
Speaker 1: to gold. I also did I knew you could be
Speaker 1: allergic because like rings and stuff. Yeah, that makes me
Speaker 1: like the yeah, the metal. I'm not like like die
Speaker 1: if I touch it, but like, yeah, came up on
Speaker 1: an allergy test, so it's like legit. I wonder if
Speaker 1: you're only allergic to like broke people gold, and if
Speaker 1: you're not a lerned maybe poor people gold. I love
Speaker 1: that there's poor people golden people. I know, I know.
Speaker 1: It's just very funny that that's and I'm sure that
Speaker 1: people advertising on our shows are selling like it's like
Speaker 1: asbestos bricks covered in goldlief. We should talk about this
Speaker 1: and not let's continue, Okay, So back back back to
Speaker 1: another kind of incredibly bizarre fantasy. So like the there's
Speaker 1: there's a group of like people who are like like
Speaker 1: Chinese dissidents or whatever, but like whose thing is that?
Speaker 1: Like they think that like jumping is like an unreconstructed
Speaker 1: maoist and that like you know one day like that
Speaker 1: like the people from the reform period who like ended
Speaker 1: Maoism or wondering gonna like sweep him out of power.
Speaker 1: Like this is nonsense, Like it's like the only equivalent
Speaker 1: I can think of this is like every once in
Speaker 1: a while you'll see some Russia expert ranting about how
Speaker 1: like Putin is like on the verge of being overthrown
Speaker 1: and like some like liberal no one has ever heard
Speaker 1: of the nineties is going to do the same ship.
Speaker 1: By the way, the fake Osan that comes out because
Speaker 1: it's all stuff like look, they've closed the streets in
Speaker 1: Moscow and like this street, you know, they've got military out,
Speaker 1: and it's like, well, yeah, they're having a parade. It's
Speaker 1: like a pre announced parade. They do this every year.
Speaker 1: They hold this exact rate every year and they close
Speaker 1: the street down the same way. And you can find
Speaker 1: that if you look into it. But people can take
Speaker 1: like post a bunch of pictures on Twitter of like
Speaker 1: cleared streets and like soldiers blocking intersections, and it looks
Speaker 1: to somebody who doesn't know anything about Russia, like wow,
Speaker 1: these the ocean people have done it again. They've uncovered
Speaker 1: another coup against Putin. Well, it's one thing, one thing,
Speaker 1: one thing. The other thing that I'll say about cus
Speaker 1: is because we we like in the last like maybe
Speaker 1: three or four years, have actually been a lot of coups.
Speaker 1: But the thing about a coup, right is it like
Speaker 1: one of the things that happens very quickly usually in
Speaker 1: a coup. If if the coup plotters are winning, is
Speaker 1: that like they there's you'll you'll you'll you'll see a
Speaker 1: message from something called like the Government of National Salvation
Speaker 1: or some ship and they'll like start putting out statements.
Speaker 1: And if you don't see a statement from like the
Speaker 1: the United Liberation Army of National Salvation or whatever, like
Speaker 1: it's not happening. That's what I'm gonna call mine. Wait,
Speaker 1: I'm just like, okay, I understand how it's spreads, Like
Speaker 1: I'm sure we're gonna get in to it, but I
Speaker 1: understand how it's spread to like people on the internet
Speaker 1: that wants something to latch onto. But if you're saying
Speaker 1: it got to like El Jazeera and all that stuff,
Speaker 1: like there wasn't like a journalist. It's the thing. Okay,
Speaker 1: So there there there's a couple. Yeah, we're gonna get
Speaker 1: to that. Like, so there's just two different kinds of
Speaker 1: things happening, right. One of the things about this conspiracy
Speaker 1: is that there's a lot of people who see it
Speaker 1: and are like like like that there. I saw a
Speaker 1: guy who was like an Ultramaga account right like his things,
Speaker 1: like he was like nuclear Ultramaga who posted a picture
Speaker 1: that was like, oh my god, this is an explosion
Speaker 1: in Beijing and it was like, no, this is how
Speaker 1: much enging explosion jails and fifteen and they always they
Speaker 1: only have I've ever seen this. The next day he
Speaker 1: was like, yeah, I'm sorry, that's actually not what I thought.
Speaker 1: It was like even those guys who at this supports
Speaker 1: to Nuclear Ultra Mega, it was just like people you know,
Speaker 1: normally expect to get bulled over by this stuff, and
Speaker 1: they were like, this is nonsense, Like what is happening?
Speaker 1: You know, I'm glad that we can rely on the
Speaker 1: journalistic credibility of Nuclear Ultra Maga and these uncertain times,
Speaker 1: thank god. Well, Nuclear Ultra Maga was being more responsible
Speaker 1: than most of the mainstream Indian journalistic outlets, which is terrifying.
Speaker 1: So okay, so like like the thing about this, this
Speaker 1: the original version of this conspiracy though, is this is
Speaker 1: like this is gibberish. No, nobody knows what the Central
Speaker 1: Guard Bureau is, Like I had to look that up,
Speaker 1: Like apparently it's a it's a like the Sential Guard Bureaus,
Speaker 1: like this thing that's in charge of like protecting like
Speaker 1: high level leaders or whatever. Like it's nonsense, like this
Speaker 1: is this is like pure inside baseball ship for like
Speaker 1: like people who are like really committed, like Chinese dissident
Speaker 1: what pads. However, what happens next is so people start
Speaker 1: kind of picking up on it, and in particular there's
Speaker 1: a person of Jennifer zang Zen, who has like two
Speaker 1: hundred thousand Twitter followers. Um starts, she starts posting this
Speaker 1: video that claims to be p l A military vehicles
Speaker 1: heading to Beijing on September twenty two, and this is
Speaker 1: like ghost viral. Um. So yeah, I mean, let me
Speaker 1: give us three options. Once footge it's funished from the
Speaker 1: video game three you game, let's think, let's think you know, so, yes,
Speaker 1: I I actually think this is real military footage, and
Speaker 1: I think it's actually kind of recent. It's just that
Speaker 1: like it's really easy in China to just like look
Speaker 1: at a road and see a military trip. Option three,
Speaker 1: it's footage of some fucking like tank on the road
Speaker 1: in China. I'm gonna take it. Was just like armored cars,
Speaker 1: which is like I think that, like like I just
Speaker 1: moved troops around. I just did a road trip up
Speaker 1: to northern Washington for a parkour conference and nerd, I know,
Speaker 1: and we we we passed three military helicopters flying this
Speaker 1: guy we passed like we we we passed like two
Speaker 1: muh like a troop carriers. We passed a whole bunch
Speaker 1: of military equipment. I'm not gonna thill the and be
Speaker 1: like they're invading Oregon, like like what, No, like this
Speaker 1: this is this is a thing. Like if you take
Speaker 1: one thing out of this episode, is that any time
Speaker 1: someone says that they are seeing troop movements, it is
Speaker 1: always alive that this is a Houston dream Hong Kong
Speaker 1: because everyone was like terrified the army was gonna show up,
Speaker 1: and like every two days there'll be another videos almost
Speaker 1: like there's an army confine moving into every It's always fake,
Speaker 1: it's never real. It's like the only time it's ever
Speaker 1: real is if there's actual shooting, like if there's a
Speaker 1: literal war going on, maybe, well, and it's never real,
Speaker 1: you're gonna know when it's real. It's also if you
Speaker 1: want to look about at times, because there are times
Speaker 1: where people do osent on military movements and it's meaningful.
Speaker 1: A good example would be the month that led up
Speaker 1: to the invasion of Ukraine, in which case you were
Speaker 1: able to clearly show here is satellite footage three months
Speaker 1: ago of this place from the air, and here is
Speaker 1: it now, and there's like a million more guys. They're
Speaker 1: clearly something is going on, and we can show this
Speaker 1: pattern repeating in a bunch of areas, right, and this
Speaker 1: and this is this is a very different thing from
Speaker 1: the thing that goes viral on Twitter is someone will
Speaker 1: just post a video of it and if so, and
Speaker 1: if what's happening is they're posting a video of some
Speaker 1: military looking trucks, that person is and and that's all
Speaker 1: it is nine percent at the time that person is
Speaker 1: full of ship. Yeah it's and this is this is
Speaker 1: like one of the most common patterns of just like
Speaker 1: weird bullshit conspiray stuff. Is this stuff people like love
Speaker 1: this again the thing that's happening to open source intelligence
Speaker 1: is the thing that happens to everything cool that comes
Speaker 1: on the end. You have this, you have this, This
Speaker 1: thing is figured out that is made possible because of
Speaker 1: new technology. People do really rad ship and in the
Speaker 1: case of O Sin, it's like, prove that the Russian
Speaker 1: government shot down in h seventeen over fucking Ukraine, and um,
Speaker 1: you know, solve all of these war crimes being committed
Speaker 1: in different areas by figuring out exactly who the perpetrators
Speaker 1: were and where they were committed in all this ship
Speaker 1: based off of like sketchy video footage, and then the
Speaker 1: thing goes viral and elements of the aesthetics of it
Speaker 1: are taken by people who just want to spread bullshit
Speaker 1: um or in some cases who think they're actually doing
Speaker 1: real research and they're just dumb, and you know, then
Speaker 1: then you you get to this point where kind of
Speaker 1: this thing that was pretty wild and pretty um pretty
Speaker 1: free for a while has to a degree to which
Speaker 1: it has to become professionalized so that people can know
Speaker 1: who is full of shit and who is not, and
Speaker 1: like who has a track record and who doesn't. UM.
Speaker 1: And I'll go back to in terms of like how
Speaker 1: you can tell if something is real osent kind of
Speaker 1: the the earliest big case study of like ocent researchers
Speaker 1: breaking something is proving that the Russian government shot down
Speaker 1: MH seventeen, this Malaysian air flight over Ukraine when the
Speaker 1: Russians were blaming the Ukrainians for it. And the way
Speaker 1: they did it is there were pictures in the wreckage
Speaker 1: of the aircraft that were taken, numerous ones that showed
Speaker 1: pieces of the missile. Some of those pictures had numbers
Speaker 1: on them. All weaponry, military grade weaponry has serial numbers
Speaker 1: and ship and using those serial numbers, people were able
Speaker 1: to track it back to the Buck missile battery that
Speaker 1: the mistil had been on. And because the Buck missile
Speaker 1: battery also has like numbers and ship, you can trace
Speaker 1: its progress. They figured out what base had originated at,
Speaker 1: and then using a mix of like videos civilians had
Speaker 1: taken and like other stuff that were able to kind
Speaker 1: of trace the path of this Buck missile as it
Speaker 1: left Russia and entered Ukraine and then found it in
Speaker 1: a village like a video evidence that just some taxi
Speaker 1: driver was literally a guy who had like a fucking
Speaker 1: car camera on and he just uploaded footage from like
Speaker 1: driving around town. You see in this town next to
Speaker 1: where the plane was shot down, the Buck missile launcher
Speaker 1: that has the missile that shot down MH seventeen. Driving
Speaker 1: through that town the day that the plane is shot down,
Speaker 1: It's like, oh, okay, well there you go, and and
Speaker 1: and again. It's the thing in terms of like how
Speaker 1: to tell if something is valid ocent. You can track
Speaker 1: all of that back. Every stage of it makes sense,
Speaker 1: every stage of it is repeatable to a lay person.
Speaker 1: And um, and and if they're good, they're gonna demonstrate
Speaker 1: their work as they tell this, as they like show
Speaker 1: here's the steps that I took. Um, they're never gonna
Speaker 1: just say here's a video of two army vehicles. Look
Speaker 1: troop movements. You know. Yeah, okay, we're gonna be getting
Speaker 1: into who she is after these ads. O oh um.
Speaker 1: You know, when I'm thinking about shooting down civilian airliners,
Speaker 1: I wish I had gold in my basement. I was wondering, Yeah,
Speaker 1: we're gonna be It came around next year we're launching
Speaker 1: our first tribute sche exclusively using Gold as the projectile
Speaker 1: and the the end the end mission, by the end
Speaker 1: is to set up next to the airport and shoot
Speaker 1: down as many planes as possible using the gold tribute. Wow, Garrison,
Speaker 1: Garrison Davis threatening international air travel. I hope your passport
Speaker 1: comes in soon, buddy, before about this in the State Department.
Speaker 1: Here's here's the bads. I just got my my gold
Speaker 1: purchase flag. I don't know what's going on, but it's
Speaker 1: not letting me buy anymore, so I I think they're
Speaker 1: onto me. Wow. Um yeah, that's that's on. Listeners. We
Speaker 1: need you to just buy all of the gold you
Speaker 1: can and mail it to Garrison so that Garrison can
Speaker 1: fight climate change with his gold powered anti aircraft catapult. So, Chris,
Speaker 1: how's it going? Okay? So okay. So the thing that
Speaker 1: also should include people in like that something was going
Speaker 1: wrong is if literally any of the people who were
Speaker 1: reachtween Jennifer Zing had like literally just googled her name
Speaker 1: because it's okay. So if you if you do this,
Speaker 1: what you find out is that she is a self
Speaker 1: proclaimed human rights activists and journalists who writes for like
Speaker 1: really weird right wing outlets in Japan and also writes
Speaker 1: for the Epoch Times. Now, finally we could pull back
Speaker 1: the curtain and reveal what has been going on this
Speaker 1: entire time, which is that, and then this is yeah,
Speaker 1: what what's actually going on here is that Jennifer Zang
Speaker 1: is part of the Fallen Gong, which is like a
Speaker 1: very very weird right wing Chinese cult. She was like
Speaker 1: like she like had to leave China because she went
Speaker 1: to write a book about them, like this, this whole
Speaker 1: thing has been a food on Falling Gong off the
Speaker 1: time there we go back, okay, good, so yeah, okay,
Speaker 1: so people who don't know what the call and going
Speaker 1: is there they were, okay, So it's the thing that
Speaker 1: kind of emerged out of a bunch of these sort
Speaker 1: of like g meditation practices. But in late eighties and nineties,
Speaker 1: like the fall and Gong, it turns into this like
Speaker 1: this full scare will agist cult that's like and as
Speaker 1: as as a CCP like increasingly sort of represses them,
Speaker 1: they become like increasingly anti communist. Um you've they're they're
Speaker 1: like literally like you cannot be a Chinese person in
Speaker 1: the US and not running too these people fucking everywhere.
Speaker 1: They're just like march through China town. I mean, there's
Speaker 1: billboards for their fucking music show thing like everywhere around
Speaker 1: fucking where I live, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah that
Speaker 1: they have they have a show called Shen You and
Speaker 1: like I'm betting mostly yeah that's yeah, that's the China
Speaker 1: before communism. Ye yeah, and everywhere everywhere it is. The
Speaker 1: actual show is wild. Yeah, yeah, they have. They have
Speaker 1: a huge network in the U. S. And like the
Speaker 1: actual thing that it is, it's like it's mostly like
Speaker 1: China for companies and the actual things. This is weird combination,
Speaker 1: you know, like half asked Buddhism and Taoism and then
Speaker 1: like absolutely insane anti evolution ship like Christian Buddhism as well.
Speaker 1: It's like this, there's a whole bunch of weirds. It's
Speaker 1: not just like it's bigger, well, it's it's more Buddhist,
Speaker 1: but yeah, it's it's it's very it's very it's it's
Speaker 1: a very very weird cult thing and like Times, yeah,
Speaker 1: the fascist newspaper. Yeah, although weirdly weirdly the Epoch Times. Okay,
Speaker 1: so this is this is a part of the story
Speaker 1: that's very odd, which is that I'm about sure at
Speaker 1: that original So so the original account that did this,
Speaker 1: that um that did the original conspiracy that the New
Speaker 1: Highland Vision thing. It was like a pretty new account
Speaker 1: and had a bunch of followers and it just vanished,
Speaker 1: and there were a bunch of other accounts, like tiny
Speaker 1: accounts that were also New Highland Visions. I'm about eight
Speaker 1: to nine sure, but that that was a fall and
Speaker 1: Gong thing. But weirdly, the Epoch Times doesn't really touch this.
Speaker 1: It's it's it's it's it's very weird. Um. They're like,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna read a passage from from the Epoch Times
Speaker 1: and it's like epok Times in as so far as
Speaker 1: to talk about it, are citing x Indian officials talking
Speaker 1: about it. But like here, here, here's a pack. Here's
Speaker 1: like a quote from a passage of like the thing
Speaker 1: they're writing about, like a potential like stuff like okay
Speaker 1: Yang noted in this article that Lee was promoted to
Speaker 1: Commander of Northern Theater Command in nineteen sorry in two
Speaker 1: thous seventeen by she and that Lee led the formation
Speaker 1: of flags in the military parade on the anniversary marking
Speaker 1: the CCPs takeover of China, which shows that she values him.
Speaker 1: Like this is just like the most boring asked China
Speaker 1: watchers ship I've ever seen like that. The Epoch times
Speaker 1: didn't like cover this as like like they did. They
Speaker 1: didn't do the like the thing that all the rest
Speaker 1: of all long people were doing, which is this sort
Speaker 1: of like, oh my god, there's a coup like they
Speaker 1: just did. That kind of makes sense because if they're
Speaker 1: on the inside in any way, they kind of know
Speaker 1: it's billshit, so they don't want to kind of ruin
Speaker 1: some of their reputation, at least in like the far
Speaker 1: right in the States. So it makes sense that they
Speaker 1: would only cover it in the extent of them quoting
Speaker 1: like other people, so that they're actually not actually giving
Speaker 1: their kind of definitive opinion on it. Yeah, it's interesting,
Speaker 1: and I think also because I mean think, I think
Speaker 1: the thing is that they also knew that this thing
Speaker 1: has limited shelf life because the moment that she should
Speaker 1: being reappears in public everyone knows is bullshit. Yep. But
Speaker 1: before then, So the new version of this of this
Speaker 1: conspiracy cost is around like four things. One is the
Speaker 1: sort of military convoys going to Beijing thing there too,
Speaker 1: There's I guess there's five because there's also technically that
Speaker 1: there's there's the image of the explosion that they claim
Speaker 1: as in Beijing. That's like not in Beijing. It was
Speaker 1: from like seven years ago. Um, there's there's the they're
Speaker 1: the big The big one is there's this image going
Speaker 1: around that is like partially it's fake, and then people
Speaker 1: try to do on sand on it and it sucks.
Speaker 1: Um is they there's this thing that that's like Beijing
Speaker 1: as canceled its flights and trains, and there's like there's
Speaker 1: the original pictures of it are fake, right, and then
Speaker 1: people try to go on flight trackers to like check
Speaker 1: if it's happening, but they don't know how to use
Speaker 1: flight trackers, so they look at the planes are like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, has been canceled. If you look at
Speaker 1: the actual map, there's just a bunch of planes over Beijing,
Speaker 1: which is the thing you would expect there to be happening.
Speaker 1: And they were like and it was one of those
Speaker 1: normal things where like like the actual thing that was
Speaker 1: happening was there were there were some cancellations, but like
Speaker 1: that's because flights get canceled. Yeah, Like it was just
Speaker 1: completely normal flight cancelation stuff or like it wasn't even
Speaker 1: like asistically significant number of which is regular flight cancelations
Speaker 1: and then like planes that had landed but people were
Speaker 1: being like they were canceled. It's like no, like they
Speaker 1: got there. Yeah, so that happened. There was a lot
Speaker 1: of people trying to like do research stuff and just failing. Um,
Speaker 1: there's there's this whole thing about she's being like missing
Speaker 1: this really important military meeting, which like he actually he
Speaker 1: genuinely wasn't there, but he wasn't there because he was
Speaker 1: quarantining and he like sent he sent like a message
Speaker 1: to it. It was interesting because the like the Epoch
Speaker 1: Times actually reports on that like that that passages that
Speaker 1: I read about, like the weird the like people trying
Speaker 1: to figure out who's holding a flags you get promoted
Speaker 1: like that that that's about that meeting. Um. But yeah,
Speaker 1: and then then the last thing it's just like where
Speaker 1: is she jumping? Like blah blah blah blah. If he's fine,
Speaker 1: why isn't he? And this stuff like it's it's especially
Speaker 1: the flights and the convoy stuff like starts spreading like wildfire,
Speaker 1: and the thing that happens that like this thing should
Speaker 1: have died, like there shouldn't have been enough stuff to
Speaker 1: keep it going, but it hit b JP Twitter, which
Speaker 1: is like so like so the b j P is
Speaker 1: is basically like it's it's the fascist party that controls
Speaker 1: India there like like really fanatical like Hindu extremists, right wingers, Um,
Speaker 1: they hate Muslims. They suck there, Like I would, I
Speaker 1: would argue I think there's a decent argument for this
Speaker 1: that this is the closest thing to like a conventional
Speaker 1: twenty century fascist party that exists on Earth. We've talked
Speaker 1: about the and the and the epic times on here before,
Speaker 1: or at least on pastards. I I know, I've talked
Speaker 1: about them a decent amount of christ you have the Yeah,
Speaker 1: they're kind of they're kind of one of the one
Speaker 1: of the recurring characters. Um. Yeah. But what what's what's
Speaker 1: interesting here is is is that one of their ops,
Speaker 1: like it just the op doesn't really go towards sort
Speaker 1: of like American right way Twitter. It goes towards Indian
Speaker 1: right wing Twitter, which that which which is notable. Yeah. Yeah. Well,
Speaker 1: And and the reason I think this is a lot
Speaker 1: of this is happening is that, like, so do you
Speaker 1: have everyone remember a couple of years back when like
Speaker 1: a bunch of Indian and Chinese soldiers like be be
Speaker 1: each other to death in like the mountains with sticks.
Speaker 1: It was pretty cool. Yeah. Yeah, so like this is
Speaker 1: like a thing that there's there's been border disputes between
Speaker 1: China and India like since India was created basically like um,
Speaker 1: they they fought like okay, the the war that people
Speaker 1: want to talk about the least in the nineties two
Speaker 1: Sino Indian War where Mao just kind of like invaded
Speaker 1: a bunch of India and just like absolutely kicked the
Speaker 1: ship out of the Indian army. And this has been
Speaker 1: a sort of like there's this sort of like a
Speaker 1: recurring in like Indian nationalist like bug bear thing where
Speaker 1: like I mean when when border attentions flare up, like
Speaker 1: India people, you get a bunch of like really terribly
Speaker 1: animated things of like an Indian soldier with a giant
Speaker 1: staff like beating the shout of a dragon or something.
Speaker 1: This is just sort of like something that happens on
Speaker 1: like Indian right wing Twitter and Jordan Peterson ship. Yeah. Literally,
Speaker 1: like it's it's really funny because you get two of
Speaker 1: the like absolutely funniest Like you get the sort of
Speaker 1: like the Chinese like wolf warrior like accounts and the
Speaker 1: like b JP people going at it and it's just
Speaker 1: unbelievably funny to watch because they're too like two of
Speaker 1: the most like absolutely psychotic, like insane nationalists in the world,
Speaker 1: and you just you just gonna watch them fight for
Speaker 1: a bit and it's it's a good time. Unfortunately, like
Speaker 1: so these guys pick it up and it rapidly like okay,
Speaker 1: one of the things like that, there's there's right wing
Speaker 1: Indian astrologer was going to get overthrown stopping that's that's
Speaker 1: one of the words to this is ever Wait, that's
Speaker 1: kind of interesting to me. That's kind of interesting a
Speaker 1: right wing Indian astrology. There's a lot of people who
Speaker 1: are into astrologya and specifically a lot of that is
Speaker 1: very influential in the rs S, which is kind of
Speaker 1: the Indian fascist movement that is backing Mody, who's the
Speaker 1: guy who runs the country right now, Who's yeah, it's
Speaker 1: it's not it's not weird that that that that's happened.
Speaker 1: Given the context of Indian policy, it's not surprising to
Speaker 1: put it sucks. It does suck. It's for sure sucks.
Speaker 1: We can say that for certain I wonder what sign
Speaker 1: he is? Am I right? Guys fucking liberals? The energy
Speaker 1: actually so superbar in some swammy who was a guy?
Speaker 1: Who was this guy was a six term b JP MP,
Speaker 1: He was a he was a this man was a
Speaker 1: government minister. At one point starts tweeting about this whole
Speaker 1: thing and then like it just it's just like this
Speaker 1: thing just like goes through the actual Indian media sphere
Speaker 1: like fucking wildfire. Um. The z News, which is an
Speaker 1: outlet founded by the deceased right wing media like in
Speaker 1: Indian media billionaire Supross Chandra, who are rest and pissed
Speaker 1: by the way, died in August, runs a story called
Speaker 1: China Coup Beijing hiding something big jij and ping in
Speaker 1: deep trouble what rumors suggest. Like The fucking Economic Times,
Speaker 1: this is the second largest English language business paper in
Speaker 1: the world, runs a story titled quote Chinese President ge
Speaker 1: removed from power in a coup. Here's what we know
Speaker 1: so far is nuts. Like I mentioned this at the beginning,
Speaker 1: like what part of part of the reason this goes
Speaker 1: viral is that Republic media network like like like a
Speaker 1: probably India's largest TV network is just just runs with
Speaker 1: the fucking runs with it as a story and well
Speaker 1: it's yeah, it's like it's like there. I guess the
Speaker 1: way I would describe it as like they don't like
Speaker 1: Fox News has like a really really elaborate like like systems,
Speaker 1: because they've been doing this for ages where they have
Speaker 1: a very very elaborate system for like running like running
Speaker 1: a dumb thing from Twitter like and turning it into
Speaker 1: like turning into like a package story. Uh that this
Speaker 1: is not what's happening here. They are just live like
Speaker 1: live reporting from Twitter. And I think this is I
Speaker 1: don't know, like I think it's like it's it's it's
Speaker 1: it's a degree of laziness that like you see this
Speaker 1: in American journalism a lot too, where like people just
Speaker 1: literally report, like report Twitter like things that happened on
Speaker 1: Twitter like this. This this is how. This is how
Speaker 1: like gobblin mode became a thing. Like there's a lot
Speaker 1: of stories that are just it's just looking to Twitter
Speaker 1: and they're basically doing this. And part of the everything
Speaker 1: that's going on here is that, like you know, so
Speaker 1: like Indian media has just become increasingly right wing over
Speaker 1: the past decade, and they've gotten like increasingly more fascists
Speaker 1: and when you and you know, the everything is like
Speaker 1: fascists are incompetent and like this is basically the result
Speaker 1: of the sort of hollowing out of the Indian media sphere,
Speaker 1: is that these like Matt, like these absolutely titanic like
Speaker 1: cable and news networks are running this just like like
Speaker 1: stuff that is so bull ship that like like the
Speaker 1: fucking newsman, Like there was a news Max anchor, Grant
Speaker 1: stitching Field, which was a news Max host like has
Speaker 1: like a video about this, and the video both starts
Speaker 1: and ends with him going this is probably bullshit, and
Speaker 1: then in the middle there's like some incomprehensible thing that
Speaker 1: he like half read an Ebuk Times article didn't understand.
Speaker 1: He starts ranting about like the general of the Northern
Speaker 1: War who has just been relieved of his duties as
Speaker 1: a direct quote, by the way, absolutely nonsense, Like yeah,
Speaker 1: but like even even those guys were kind of like
Speaker 1: this is whack, like we we can't run with this.
Speaker 1: But that like the sort of like like the the
Speaker 1: sort of like Indian fascists people are like so incredibly
Speaker 1: desperate for just like any like like even more so
Speaker 1: than the American right and more are desperate for just
Speaker 1: like here's an anti China story we can just sort
Speaker 1: of like throw out because of the sort of increased
Speaker 1: tensions around the border, etc. This stuff just this stuff
Speaker 1: just explodes. Um And eventually you get like that the
Speaker 1: Indian media outlets who are like still actual like outlets
Speaker 1: who are like, hey, guys, this is nonsense, like the
Speaker 1: Hindu stand Times and the Tribune and write stories that
Speaker 1: are like really, like are you guys kidding me? Like
Speaker 1: come on, this is like obviously fake. Um yeah, and
Speaker 1: and and and at certain point, like this whole thing
Speaker 1: is it's sort of like phase, but it has this
Speaker 1: there's there's no there's. But then there's a sort of
Speaker 1: second wave of it, which is there are a bunch
Speaker 1: of people who are like weird like Chinese dissident quote
Speaker 1: unquote people but who aren't like who aren't following Gong,
Speaker 1: people who like looked at this and we're like, this
Speaker 1: is obviously a lie. I'm not going to jump in
Speaker 1: on this leave of the bulshit. But then we're like, okay,
Speaker 1: I've got a second layer of this. Um there there
Speaker 1: there's there's someone Dr Lee Magnyan who's like she's like
Speaker 1: an old school like COVID bio, like bioweapon, like lab
Speaker 1: truther person um. She was like okay, okay, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: hold on, hold up, what's happening here? That this whole
Speaker 1: discourse was a she jumping op to distract everyone from
Speaker 1: the the alliance with Putin that he's going to announce
Speaker 1: at the party Conquerors. Yeah, and like like he needs
Speaker 1: to like secretly cover up the fact that he's going
Speaker 1: to create an alliance to destroy the free world. It's
Speaker 1: just like it's it's it's a real it's a it's
Speaker 1: a real circus of just like like all like you
Speaker 1: you gotta see like this whole sort of second and
Speaker 1: third waves of media grifters like looking at this story
Speaker 1: of being like okay, how do we spin this out?
Speaker 1: And it's I don't know, like I I feel like
Speaker 1: that this is a part of like this part of Twitter,
Speaker 1: like the sort of like it's just this kind of
Speaker 1: there's a kind of intersection of like weird Chinese cranks
Speaker 1: and like China Watch or Twitter where you get a
Speaker 1: bunch of these very weird things. But yeah, I've talked
Speaker 1: about this, but like the thing's interesting to me is
Speaker 1: it's like the sent to which the right doesn't pick
Speaker 1: this up, like this is the kind of thing like
Speaker 1: you would expect like Alex Jones to be talking about,
Speaker 1: and especially I can tell like Alex Jones doesn't cover
Speaker 1: like fucking Bucky Barnes, like e talks about it like briefly,
Speaker 1: like on like but like while Alex has like walked
Speaker 1: out of the room, talks about it for like five
Speaker 1: seconds and then stops, and I was like, really, like
Speaker 1: Alex Jones is gonna cover this, like uh, maybe it's
Speaker 1: It's possible I missed part of it. Paying is is
Speaker 1: if like less secure in power and can be overthrown
Speaker 1: by other elements in the Chinese government than China is
Speaker 1: kind of less scary that Alex Jones. Ten's Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: so that's might be part of it. Yeah, we'll give
Speaker 1: him some time. Maybe he'll get on this later. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't know. He's got a lot going on right now. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Oh god, Okay, So the last thing I want to
Speaker 1: talk about is like, so I've been saying I'm talking
Speaker 1: about China watchers this whole time. There's like basically there's
Speaker 1: kind of a academic careers last profession like in the us.
Speaker 1: That's like being a China watcher. And so you get
Speaker 1: like some internationally degree, you get some like cultural studies degree,
Speaker 1: and you go to China for a bit and you
Speaker 1: come back and then like your job is to write
Speaker 1: about like the inscrutable Oriental mind. And I they're like
Speaker 1: one or two of these people are like a couple
Speaker 1: of these people who are like have some respect for
Speaker 1: real at large. I literally cannot with these people. Um, well,
Speaker 1: so what did the Guardian writing an article about this
Speaker 1: later on? And they're like yeah, because this is not happening.
Speaker 1: But the guy they quote writes in a Twitter threat,
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna read this tweet because I Jesus Christ.
Speaker 1: A palace coup in a time of political pressuurization is
Speaker 1: not implausible. Gorbachevan Yeltson were detained during the USSR Russia
Speaker 1: transition period. A coup is not an anathema to China either.
Speaker 1: Emperor kuang Hu was arrested by dowager Empress Sishi when
Speaker 1: he attempted reforms that, by the way, the same the
Speaker 1: second thing he's talking about that is from like I
Speaker 1: think it's eighteen nine, is the last coup he can find,
Speaker 1: Like you can just say ship like there's a ti
Speaker 1: like you you would you could literally say whatever the
Speaker 1: funk you want, and people will be like, oh yeah, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: this coup. That is literally two political there are there
Speaker 1: are two entire political systems that China has had between
Speaker 1: right now and the time that the emperor's regent like
Speaker 1: overthrew the the emperor to stop, like just just come on,
Speaker 1: like why why why why are people allowed to say this?
Speaker 1: Like why why are people allowed to go oh yeah,
Speaker 1: Gorba Trough and Yelton got cooed. So that means that
Speaker 1: there can be a coup in China like this this
Speaker 1: this is one of the experts, Like I just like
Speaker 1: like one of these every single every single one of
Speaker 1: these articles has this passage where they're like, oh, well,
Speaker 1: part of the reason why this happening is because the
Speaker 1: Chinese government is so unbelievably not transparent, and I'm like, no, like,
Speaker 1: part of the reasons this is happening is because you
Speaker 1: guys just literally will say bullshit, which means that people
Speaker 1: will just believe like literally you can just say anything
Speaker 1: about China. You can say it like it's all like
Speaker 1: it all comes down once again as every problem in
Speaker 1: the world does to the twenty far hour news cycle.
Speaker 1: Where is this bullshit? Sure, but like got to fill
Speaker 1: air time. It's happening right now. People are talking about it,
Speaker 1: so we get to talk about it. We don't have
Speaker 1: to say it's true. We can just like talk about
Speaker 1: it and then we filled some airtime and uh, you know,
Speaker 1: we keep making money. It's good and now we're talking
Speaker 1: about it. Yeah. And it's like, if it's a topic
Speaker 1: that people are not like, I'm gonna say something, then
Speaker 1: add a caveat. If it's a topic that people are
Speaker 1: not very knowledgeable about, like the inner workings of Chinese politics,
Speaker 1: then they're going to be easier to believe it now
Speaker 1: even now. Obviously the strategy can work even for topics
Speaker 1: that people are knowledgeable about sometimes um, but especially in
Speaker 1: something related to like foreign countries that most Americans know
Speaker 1: very little about, then yeah, that's super easy to believe.
Speaker 1: Like remember a few years ago when everyone convinced themselves
Speaker 1: that uh, Kim jongoon died. Yeah, yeah, because because people
Speaker 1: because people are really to believe something. It's yeah, it's
Speaker 1: like like they're there, there's there's there's a thing I've
Speaker 1: been like I've run into a lot where like that
Speaker 1: there's there's a bunch of like there's a bunch of
Speaker 1: people in the American left who's like basically and I
Speaker 1: don't even really know how they came to believe this,
Speaker 1: because this isn't something that the CCP even says about itself,
Speaker 1: but like they've they've come to believe that China has
Speaker 1: universal health care, which it doesn't. They used to have
Speaker 1: one and then they got rid of it, like they
Speaker 1: literally dismantled the universal health there system. Like there are
Speaker 1: people who believe that like like China has like a
Speaker 1: right to housing and that everyone in China just gets
Speaker 1: a house and and like like this is all of
Speaker 1: this ship that's like it just has like it's it's
Speaker 1: so completely uncoupled from reality that like I can't I
Speaker 1: can't even trace the source to where they got this stuff.
Speaker 1: But it's really easy to spread because yeah, it's just
Speaker 1: like nobody knows any especially like yeah, it's it's a
Speaker 1: foreign country, nobody knows anything about it, and you can
Speaker 1: and like the actual people who are experts will just
Speaker 1: like start spouting shit about how it's plausible there could
Speaker 1: be a coup against Ji jimping because fucking emperor was
Speaker 1: overthrown a hundred, a hundred and twenty four years ago.
Speaker 1: Like it's it's it's endlessly frustrating. And yeah, anyway, so
Speaker 1: don't don't use the internet, attack global communications infrastructure. Um
Speaker 1: and yeah, buy gold, buy some gold. And if you
Speaker 1: see something on Twitter or really anywhere online, instantly believe
Speaker 1: it no matter what it is. Yeah, live your life
Speaker 1: that way, it's it's fine. Also, should we plug our
Speaker 1: our lives our live show that Yeah, so we're doing
Speaker 1: a live virtual it could happen here and Q and
Speaker 1: A the entire squad will be there. You can get
Speaker 1: tickets from moment, dot ceo, slash I c h ah.
Speaker 1: It's all over our socials if you're looking for it,
Speaker 1: and that will be on October that's six pm Pacific time.
Speaker 1: Mark your calendars, market calendars, calendar, dot ceo, slash I
Speaker 1: c h h. I feel that was beautiful. Good for you, Sophie,
Speaker 1: And I know we've had a lot of debate about
Speaker 1: what we're gonna be talking about, and I think one
Speaker 1: of the most important things in current events right now
Speaker 1: that kind of indicates the kind of collapse of American
Speaker 1: society is all of the Try Guys discourse. So we
Speaker 1: are going to be preparing a two hour Try Guys
Speaker 1: two hours, two hour presentation on the evolution of the
Speaker 1: Try Guys discourse and what really happened behind the scenes
Speaker 1: and how it impacts American politics. Going spoilers, none of
Speaker 1: them were ever married. Bye, hello, and welcome to it
Speaker 1: could happen here. This is Sharine, and you are listening
Speaker 1: to the first of two parts of the little series.
Speaker 1: I wanted to do about Yemen. I think, Um, I've
Speaker 1: been really interested in the history of countries that are
Speaker 1: currently in turmoil because understanding the history of how they
Speaker 1: got there is usually so important to understanding their present.
Speaker 1: So Yemen is one of those places I think that
Speaker 1: is always in the news as experiencing something horrific, and
Speaker 1: I wanted to know exactly how we got to where
Speaker 1: we are. So I wanted to focus on primarily modern
Speaker 1: events in the last several years, for example. And so
Speaker 1: this first episode is going to cover everything up till
Speaker 1: two eighteen, and then our next episode will cover the
Speaker 1: years after that. But before we jump to the modern times,
Speaker 1: I wanted to do a chronology of some key events
Speaker 1: that had led up to uh the nineteen nineties essentially,
Speaker 1: So we're gonna rewind all the way back to the
Speaker 1: fifteen hundreds. I know, but still the stuff is interesting
Speaker 1: to me. I hope it is to YouTube. Let's get
Speaker 1: into it. In the fifteen hundreds, the Ottomans absorbed part
Speaker 1: of Yemen into their empire, but they're expelled in the
Speaker 1: sixteen hundreds. Centuries later, in eighteen thirty nine, Aiden Yemen's
Speaker 1: capital comes under British rule, and then when the Suez
Speaker 1: Canal opens up in eighteen sixty nine, the city serves
Speaker 1: as a major refueling port. In eighteen forty nine, the
Speaker 1: Ottomans returned to the north of Yemen. However, around World
Speaker 1: War One in nineteen eighteen, the Ottoman Empire dissolves and
Speaker 1: North Yemen gains independence and is ruled by Imam Yahiah.
Speaker 1: After thirty years in power, in nineteen forty eight, Yahya
Speaker 1: is assassinated. So many things happened in nineteen forty eight.
Speaker 1: I swear to God that years cursed. But anyway, after
Speaker 1: has assassinated, his son Ahmed fights off opponents of feudal
Speaker 1: rule and he succeeds his father. In sixty two, Imam
Speaker 1: Ahmed dies and he succeeded by his son. However, army
Speaker 1: officers then sees power and they set up the Yemen
Speaker 1: Arab Republic and this sparks a civil war between royalists
Speaker 1: supported by Saudi Arabia and the Republicans. Essentially they are
Speaker 1: backed by Egypt. In nineteen sixty seven, Britain withdraws from
Speaker 1: the South of Yemen after years of a pro independence
Speaker 1: and surgency, and its former territories unite as the People's
Speaker 1: Republic of Yemen. In nineteen sixty nine, a communist coup
Speaker 1: renamed the South of Yemen the People's Democratic Republic of
Speaker 1: Yemen and reorients it towards the Soviet Block. The Soviet
Speaker 1: Block a k a. The Eastern Bloc for those that
Speaker 1: need a quick refresher like I did. It's also known
Speaker 1: as the Communist Block, the Socialist Bloc, and the Soviet Block,
Speaker 1: and it was the group of socialist states in Central
Speaker 1: and Eastern Europe, East Asia, Southeast Asia after cut in
Speaker 1: Latin America that was under the influence of the Soviet
Speaker 1: Union that existed during the Cold War. In nineteen seventy,
Speaker 1: Republican forces in Yemen triumph in the North Yemen Civil
Speaker 1: War in seventy two. There are border classes between the
Speaker 1: two Yemen's the North and the South, and a ceasefire
Speaker 1: is broken by the Arab League. In nineteen seventy eight,
Speaker 1: Ali becomes President of North Yemen. He's gonna be popping
Speaker 1: up a lot in this history and also some modern times.
Speaker 1: So is a name that we should remember going forward.
Speaker 1: In seventy nine, a year after saw That becomes president,
Speaker 1: there's new fighting that begins between the two Yemens. In
Speaker 1: eighty six, about seven years later, thousands die in a
Speaker 1: power struggle in the South, which effectively drives the first
Speaker 1: generation of leaders from office. Hight that Abubuk of Us
Speaker 1: then takes over and begins to work towards the unification
Speaker 1: of these two states in Yemen. However, this unification is
Speaker 1: pretty uneasy in the early years in the nineteen nineties.
Speaker 1: After the reunification of Yemen in May of nineteen nine,
Speaker 1: transitions from President of North Yemen Opposed that he had
Speaker 1: held since nineteen seventy eight to the President of the
Speaker 1: Republic of Yemen. At the same time, the z d
Speaker 1: Shia group on Subtle Allah or the Hoothies gradually gained power,
Speaker 1: and the group's rise has at this point the tacit
Speaker 1: support of President saw That. At this point, the Soviet
Speaker 1: Bloc implodes the tension between these former states indoors, even
Speaker 1: though they're technically supposed to be united. At this point,
Speaker 1: the former states of Yemen is what I'm talking about here,
Speaker 1: So we block is over, so a civil war begins.
Speaker 1: Just years after the reunification of Yemen, the unintegrated armies
Speaker 1: of the North and the South face off, resulting in
Speaker 1: a brief civil war that resulted in the defeat of
Speaker 1: the Southern army and short up Yemen's reunification. In May
Speaker 1: of July of that year, President saw That declares a
Speaker 1: state of emergency and dismisses Vice President Alibad and other
Speaker 1: Southern officials who declare the secession of the South before
Speaker 1: being defeated by the National Army. A year later, Yemen
Speaker 1: and Ratria clash over the disputed Haniche Islands in the
Speaker 1: Red Sea. International arbitration awarded the bulk of these islands
Speaker 1: later to Yemen. In this brings us to the two thousands,
Speaker 1: which introduces al Qaeda into Yemen, and I guess the
Speaker 1: rest of the world. But in two thousand, President saw
Speaker 1: That reaches a border demarcation agreement with Saudi Arabia which
Speaker 1: is known as the Treaty of Jedda, and he seeks
Speaker 1: to disarm the Hoothies, whom he had previously viewed as
Speaker 1: a useful weapon against Saudi interference in Yemen. In October
Speaker 1: of that year, the U S Naval vessel USS Coal
Speaker 1: is damaged in an Alcada suicide attack in Aiden. Seventeen
Speaker 1: U S personnel are killed with this attack. In February
Speaker 1: two thousand and two, Yemen expels more than a hundred
Speaker 1: foreign Islam mcclaric's in a crackdown on al Qaeda. In
Speaker 1: October of that year, al Qaeda attacks and badly damages
Speaker 1: the oil supertanker m vy Limburgh in the Gulf of Aiden,
Speaker 1: and this kills one person and injures twelve other crew members,
Speaker 1: and it also costs Yemen a lot of money in
Speaker 1: lost ports revenues. Between two thousand and four and two
Speaker 1: thousand and ten. Is the Hoothy Insurgency or the Hoothy Rebellion?
Speaker 1: Tensions run high at this point between Sauce government and
Speaker 1: the Hoofies. After Sawce border deal with Saudi Arabia. The
Speaker 1: Hoothies are led by Hussain Badadadana Hoothie at this time,
Speaker 1: and Houthi eventually leads a rebellion against the MNI government
Speaker 1: into thousand and four. In June through August of this year,
Speaker 1: hundreds die as troops battle the Shia insurgency that is
Speaker 1: led by her Sanna Hoothi in the north. Starting in
Speaker 1: June of two tho four saw this government begins arresting
Speaker 1: hundreds of Hoothy members and issues a reward for her
Speaker 1: saying Baddan and Hoothies arrest the leader of the Huthie's.
Speaker 1: This fighting continues until al Huthi is killed in September
Speaker 1: of two thousand and four. In two thousand and five,
Speaker 1: between March and April, fighting between the Hoothies, which are
Speaker 1: now led by Hussain's brother Abdi Huthi, and government forces
Speaker 1: surges and this leaves hundreds dead. More than two hundred
Speaker 1: people are killed in a resurgence of fighting between government
Speaker 1: forces and the supporters of the previously slain leader of
Speaker 1: the Hoothies, Hussan and Huthi, who had died before his
Speaker 1: brother had took power and this fighting ceases after the
Speaker 1: sides reach an agreement, resulting in the surrender of the
Speaker 1: Hoothies top military commander. Between two thousand and five thousand
Speaker 1: and six. These sporadic clashes between the government and the
Speaker 1: Houthis continue, but in March two thousand and six President
Speaker 1: saw Grant's amnesty to six hundred Hoothie fighters. I think
Speaker 1: this is part of the reason that President saw That
Speaker 1: goes on to win the two thousand and six election
Speaker 1: and remains president. However, in early tw thousand and seven,
Speaker 1: the Hoothy rebels and Sluce government again find themselves at odds.
Speaker 1: Fighting continues for five months and many are killed or
Speaker 1: wounded in the clashes between security forces and Hoothy rebels
Speaker 1: in the north. This continues until rebel leader Omnica Hoothy
Speaker 1: accepts a cease fire agreement with saw There and this
Speaker 1: happens in June thou seven. With the help of the
Speaker 1: ceasefire had not turned a year old when even more
Speaker 1: fighting breaks out between the government and the rebels. By
Speaker 1: July of two thousand and eight, are all declares an
Speaker 1: end to the fighting, and the Hoothy dominated Sada governorate
Speaker 1: in September of this year, an al Qaida attack on
Speaker 1: a US embassy in Sanna kills twelve people. Let's take
Speaker 1: our first little break before I forget, and we'll jump
Speaker 1: back in um see what happens next, and we're back.
Speaker 1: We left off in September thousand and eight after an
Speaker 1: al Qaeda attack on a US embassy killed twelve people,
Speaker 1: and in November of that year, police fire warning shots
Speaker 1: at opposition rallies and Sanna. These demonstrators were demanding electoral
Speaker 1: reform and fresh polls. Between two thousand and nine two
Speaker 1: thousand and ten, as Operations Scorched Earth. In August of
Speaker 1: two thousand and nine, the MNY military launches Operations Scorched
Speaker 1: Earth to crush the Hoothy Rebellion and SADA. At this point,
Speaker 1: Hoothy rebels begin fighting with Saudi forces and cross border clashes.
Speaker 1: Tens of thousands of people are displaced by the fighting.
Speaker 1: This fighting continues until after rounds of offers and counteroffers,
Speaker 1: SAWA's government agrees to a ceasefire with Opdoismatical Houthi and
Speaker 1: the rebels. In February thousand and ten. The MNI military
Speaker 1: simultaneously carries out Operation Blow to the head Yes Operation
Speaker 1: Blow to the Head. This is a crackdown on both
Speaker 1: the rebels and al Qaeda and the Arabian Peninsula ch
Speaker 1: are known as a q a P. Thousands flee the
Speaker 1: government offensive against the separatists in the southern Chebwa province.
Speaker 1: In September of that year, government forces besiege the governorate
Speaker 1: of Chebua in southeast Yemen to root out the a
Speaker 1: q a P militants. By two thousand eleven, the Arab
Speaker 1: Spring reaches Yemen. In January, demonstrations calling for the end
Speaker 1: of saw that thirty three year rule begin. Saw the
Speaker 1: offer some concessions, promising not to seek re election, but
Speaker 1: the protests spread security forces and saw the supporters launch
Speaker 1: a crackdown that eventually leaves between two hundred and two
Speaker 1: thousand people dead. There's such a huge discrepancy between the
Speaker 1: death toll because it's hard to know how many people
Speaker 1: are suffering, how many people die from these kinds of attacks,
Speaker 1: especially when there's not a lot of international interference or
Speaker 1: international care. Essentially, In April two thousand eleven, saw General
Speaker 1: People's Congress the GPC agrees to a Golf Cooperation Council
Speaker 1: broker deal to hand over power, but the president refuses
Speaker 1: to sign on. This prompts the influential Hashid tribal Federation
Speaker 1: and several army commanders to back the opposition, after which
Speaker 1: clashes erupt in Senna. In June thousand eleven, President saw
Speaker 1: That seriously injured in a bombing and he travels to
Speaker 1: Saudi Arabia for medical treatment. In September thousand eleven, saw
Speaker 1: That returns to the presidential palace amid renewed clashes. It
Speaker 1: is not until November thousand eleven that he signs a
Speaker 1: deal that states that his deputy, ad Abu Mansour al Hadi,
Speaker 1: assumed power and form a unity government. This unity government
Speaker 1: would include a prime minister from the opposition, and it's
Speaker 1: formed after months of protests. This same month, a U
Speaker 1: s born al Qaida leader in Yemen, an El Alacki,
Speaker 1: is killed by US forces. In February had he is
Speaker 1: sworn in for a two year term as president after
Speaker 1: an election in which he stood unopposed. However, he is
Speaker 1: unable to counter the al Qaeda attacks in the capital
Speaker 1: as the year goes on. Thousand fourteen is was considered
Speaker 1: the years of the post Arab Spring, and in January,
Speaker 1: the National Dialogue Conference concludes after ten months of deliberations,
Speaker 1: agreeing to a document on which the new constitution of
Speaker 1: Yemen would be based. In February, a presidential panel approves
Speaker 1: of a political transition plan that includes a draft federal
Speaker 1: constitution for Yemen that organizes the country into a federation
Speaker 1: of six regions. This was aimed to accommodate the Hoothie
Speaker 1: rebels and Southern grievances, but the Hoothie sees control of
Speaker 1: most of Senna in August of that year and they
Speaker 1: reject the deal. Following two weeks of anti government protests,
Speaker 1: President had He dissolves his cabinet and overturns a controversial
Speaker 1: rise in fuel prices. By October thousand fourteen, the Hoothies
Speaker 1: take control of most of Yemen's capital, Senna. The following month,
Speaker 1: the rebels see used the Red Sea and the port
Speaker 1: of Kudaita. In January, after being placed under house arrest
Speaker 1: by the Hoothies, had He resigns as president. Despite previous
Speaker 1: attempts to craft a power sharing agreement between Haddie and
Speaker 1: the Hoofies, the two had continued to clash. The Hoothies
Speaker 1: later reject a draft constitution that was proposed by Haddie's government.
Speaker 1: A month later, the Hoothies take control of the Yemeni
Speaker 1: government and appoint in Presidential Council to replace President Haddie,
Speaker 1: but this is a move that is swiftly denounced by
Speaker 1: the United Nations. President Haddie then flees the presidential palace
Speaker 1: and Sanna and he escapes to his southern stronghold of Aiden,
Speaker 1: and this is where he later rescinds his resignation, declaring
Speaker 1: himself the legitimate president and deems the Hoothie takeover a coup.
Speaker 1: The month after that, in March thousand and five, the
Speaker 1: Islamic State claimed its first attacks in Yemen, which were
Speaker 1: two suicide bombings that targeted Shia Masks and Senna, the capital,
Speaker 1: and this resulted in a hund than thirty seven people
Speaker 1: being killed. The Hoothies start and offensive against government forces
Speaker 1: and advanced towards southern Yemen. President Haddie then flees Adn
Speaker 1: and takes refuge instead in Saudi Arabia. Shortly thereafter, the
Speaker 1: Hoothies sees parts of ties, a city in southwestern Yemen,
Speaker 1: after repeated please from Haddie, who was still taking refuge
Speaker 1: in Saudi Arabia, a Saudi led coalition of Arab states,
Speaker 1: including the United Arab Emirates, Egypt, Morocco, Jordan, Bahrain, Sudan,
Speaker 1: and Kuwait initiates Operation Decisive Storm in support of the
Speaker 1: ousted president. The coalition launches air strikes against Hoothie targets,
Speaker 1: deploys small ground forces, and imposes a naval blockade in
Speaker 1: order to halt the Hoothie's advance on Aidan. The United
Speaker 1: States then announces its intention to aid in the coalition's efforts.
Speaker 1: In April. A month later, the coalition declares an end
Speaker 1: to Operation Decisive Storm. Saudi Arabia announces it would move
Speaker 1: on to a phase described as Operation Restoring Hope. Despite
Speaker 1: the announcement, the Saudi leg Coalition continues to bomb Hoothy
Speaker 1: positions and the United States increases its arms sales for
Speaker 1: the Saudi campaign in Yemen. Let's take our second break
Speaker 1: and we will be right back to continue this little history.
Speaker 1: So b rb Okay, we're back, and we are still
Speaker 1: in April, when the Saudi leg coalition continues to bomb
Speaker 1: Hoothy positions and the United States increases its arms sales
Speaker 1: for the Saudi campaign in Yemen. This is after Saudi
Speaker 1: Arabia announced that it would move on to a phase
Speaker 1: described as Operation Restoring Hope despite the bombing campaign that
Speaker 1: the Saudis are carrying out. The Hoothies capture the city
Speaker 1: of Oak, which is a small city and the capital
Speaker 1: of the Chebua government in Yemen. It's also southeast from Senna,
Speaker 1: and it's not that far. It's it only about four
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty kilometers south of Santa. After three Saudi
Speaker 1: officials die in a Hoothy attack at the Saudi border,
Speaker 1: Saudi Arabia boosts its border security. The Hoothy fighters also
Speaker 1: condemn a u N Security Council resolution imposing an armed
Speaker 1: embargo on the group, calling the decision an act of aggression.
Speaker 1: A month later, Alia, the previous president had been accused
Speaker 1: of sighting previously with Hoothy rebels and support of Hattie's
Speaker 1: ouster and May Saw the Henyemni forces loyal to him,
Speaker 1: announced a formal alliance with the Hoothies. The Saudis and
Speaker 1: the Hoothies then agree to a five day humanitarian ceasefire.
Speaker 1: US President Barack Obama convenes a g c C meeting
Speaker 1: the Gulf Corporation Council at Camp David to resolve the
Speaker 1: crisis in Yemen, but only two states send their leaders,
Speaker 1: which is very sad to me. A month later, we're
Speaker 1: in June and the leader of the al Qaeda in
Speaker 1: the Arabian Peninsula, the a q a P, Nassaid al Wahishi,
Speaker 1: is killed in a U S drone strike in Yemen.
Speaker 1: A month after that, after months of fighting with Sunni
Speaker 1: tribesmen and a q a P militants, the Hoothies take
Speaker 1: control of the entire Cheboa government. The following month, President
Speaker 1: Haddie returns to Aidan after Saudi backed government forces and
Speaker 1: those loyal to Haddie recapture the port city from Hoothy forces.
Speaker 1: Introduces some foreign intervention, which always sounds like a good idea.
Speaker 1: In April of that year, the U n sponsors talks
Speaker 1: between the Haddie government and the coalition of Hoothies, as
Speaker 1: well as former President saw this General People's Congress. Between
Speaker 1: October sixteen and May, both sides of the conflict allegedly
Speaker 1: break their ceasefires. The United Nations and others try to
Speaker 1: broker peace talks and political resolutions. The Hoothy his claim
Speaker 1: responsibility for firing missiles into Saudi Arabia, including the capital
Speaker 1: of Rial. Also in humanitarian agencies and watchdogs decry the
Speaker 1: Yemen crisis as one of the worst humanitarian emergencies in
Speaker 1: the world. There are thousands of civilians dead and wounded
Speaker 1: at this point, and there's also an outbreak of cholera
Speaker 1: and a potential famine that would also leave thousands on
Speaker 1: the brink of starvation. In November seventeen, Saudi Arabia intercepts
Speaker 1: a missile fired towards its airport in the Real and
Speaker 1: blames the Hoothies Iran and Lebanon's has Belah for escalating
Speaker 1: the war. A month later, after saw they had reverse
Speaker 1: course and sided with the Saudi led coalition. Fierce fighting
Speaker 1: in Senna between the Hoothies and the forces loyal to
Speaker 1: SA leave the former president dead. SAA has now dead.
Speaker 1: The Hoothies at this point are controlling much of northern Yemen,
Speaker 1: but they still face stiff opposition from the Saudi led coalition.
Speaker 1: President Handy, whose loyalist control much of South Yemen, has
Speaker 1: called for a popular uprising against who the the rule
Speaker 1: in the north. Son, who saw that the former president
Speaker 1: that has now died. The son is Ahmed Ali, and
Speaker 1: he has vowed revenge against the Huthie's for his father's assassination.
Speaker 1: We're now in eighteen, and a lot happens in eighteen.
Speaker 1: That the last year we're going to talk about. But
Speaker 1: there's a lot of months in ten. So let's start
Speaker 1: with January. In January eighteen and a firefight the Southern
Speaker 1: Transitional Council the STC, the United Arab Emirates backed separatist movement.
Speaker 1: It seeks a revival of the formally independent South Yemen,
Speaker 1: and it sees his control of Aiden. Aiden is Yemen's
Speaker 1: main southern city and government headquarters, and it was also
Speaker 1: the previous capital if you remember, all the way back went.
Speaker 1: By March of that year, twenty two million Yeminies require
Speaker 1: humanitarian aid. In February, Mary the u N appoints long
Speaker 1: time British diplomat Martin Griffiths as Special Envoy of the
Speaker 1: Secretary General for Yemen. Between March and May, after thousand
Speaker 1: and eighteen, fighting escalates along Yemen's western coast and dozens
Speaker 1: are killed in Saudi air attacks and security raids. A
Speaker 1: Saudi led coalition drone strike kills Sachaliel Samad, who was
Speaker 1: president of Yemen's Supreme Political Council, making him the most
Speaker 1: senior Hoothy casualties since the coalition began its activities in
Speaker 1: International opposition to the coalition's operations grows. After an air
Speaker 1: raid kills more than twenty people at a wedding party
Speaker 1: in may Ua, e forces take over the island of Sakatra,
Speaker 1: occupying the airport and the seaport and causing tensions with
Speaker 1: the Yemeni government officials. Between June and July, Yemeni President
Speaker 1: Adre Mansur Hadi meets with the UAE Crown Prince Muhammad
Speaker 1: bin Dad and Night, and by July, the coalition launches
Speaker 1: and offensive on the port of Kudeida. Between August and October,
Speaker 1: international outrage over the Saudi led coalitions war and Yemen grows.
Speaker 1: After an air raid strikes a school bus, killing forty Yemeni,
Speaker 1: mostly children. Public opinion of US support for the war
Speaker 1: effort in the United States plummets as it is reported
Speaker 1: that the bomb that was used in the air raid
Speaker 1: was US supplied. In October, US resident and Washington Post
Speaker 1: columnists Jamaica Shogi is assassinated by Saudi agents in Istumble,
Speaker 1: and this raises additional questions about the U S support
Speaker 1: for Yad's war on Yemen U and efforts to mediate
Speaker 1: between the MNY government and the Hoothie rebels in Geneva,
Speaker 1: Switzerland are fruitless. At the end of November and December,
Speaker 1: the US political establishment begins to have some unrest for
Speaker 1: withdrawing US support from the Saudi led coalition in Yemen.
Speaker 1: Former Obama administration officials, including the future Secretary of State
Speaker 1: Anthony B. Lincoln, the future UN Ambassador nominee Linda Thomas Greenfield,
Speaker 1: and the future National Security Advisor to President Joe Biden,
Speaker 1: Jake Sullivan. They all sign an open letter expressing remorse
Speaker 1: for their support of the war and urging all sizes
Speaker 1: to end the fighting because a letter in thoughts and
Speaker 1: prayers is exactly what we need. In December of eighteen,
Speaker 1: the U S Senate for the first time, votes to
Speaker 1: invoke the War Powers Resolution to force the US military
Speaker 1: to end its participation in the Yemen War. Later that month,
Speaker 1: after un mediated talks, the mn E government and the
Speaker 1: Hoothies signed the Stockholm Agreement that includes prisoner swaps, a
Speaker 1: mutual redeployment of forces away from the jode deport and
Speaker 1: a committee to discuss the contested city of Tayis. The
Speaker 1: ceasefire is set to take effect on December eighteenth, after
Speaker 1: thousand eighteen. Overall, the Stockholm Agreement fails to eachieve its goals,
Speaker 1: and neither side agrees to withdraw from Hodeida. This is
Speaker 1: where I'm going to leave you for today. Um really
Speaker 1: uplifting point, huh. But tomorrow will continue on starting in
Speaker 1: twenty nineteen, and they'll take us to present day, where
Speaker 1: a lot of ship is still happening. But I hope
Speaker 1: this little history of Yemen has given you an idea
Speaker 1: of how exactly a country can keep having so much
Speaker 1: unrest because of constant leadership squabbles just to say the least, uh,
Speaker 1: and coup attempts and fighting and international intervention. So that's
Speaker 1: all for today, and uh, you'll hear me tomorrow if
Speaker 1: you want to. Goodbye, Hello you beautiful people, Welcome back
Speaker 1: to it could happen here. This is Sharene again. If
Speaker 1: you listened to our previous episode from yesterday, you would
Speaker 1: know that we are today continuing and finishing up this
Speaker 1: little two part series about the history of Yemen. Trying
Speaker 1: to understand how its history has led up to Yemen
Speaker 1: being in present day one of the worst humanitarian crises
Speaker 1: in the world. So, yeah, we're talking about the history,
Speaker 1: and last episode we talked about the history up until
Speaker 1: the end of and we're going to continue on from
Speaker 1: twenty nineteen because that's how time works. But I will say,
Speaker 1: I don't know why I feel like I need to
Speaker 1: provide a disclaimer, but this is who I am. I
Speaker 1: feel like I sounded like a board professor in the
Speaker 1: previous episode, so I apologize if it sounded a bit flat.
Speaker 1: There are just so many dates and names that I
Speaker 1: feel like I need to get right, and I'm still
Speaker 1: trying to figure out how to talk about history in
Speaker 1: a fun and engaging way, if that's even possible. So
Speaker 1: bear with me. Hopefully there were some things you found
Speaker 1: interesting and we can continue on this journey together. Okay,
Speaker 1: enough about me, please, let's continue on. In January twenty
Speaker 1: nineteen in Yemen, so the previous month, December, theem Andy
Speaker 1: government and the Hohothies had signed the Stockholm Agreement that
Speaker 1: included prisoner swaps, a mutual redeployment of forces away from
Speaker 1: Hoodet to port and a committee to discuss the contested
Speaker 1: city of Tais. The ceasefire was set to take effect
Speaker 1: on December, but overall this agreement fails to achieve its goals,
Speaker 1: and neither side agreed to withdraw from Hodeida. So as
Speaker 1: we enter into twenty nineteen, the fighting is continuing. The
Speaker 1: Hoothies launched a drone attack on the air based north
Speaker 1: of Aden, and this injures dozens and also kills the
Speaker 1: head of Yemeny intelligence. Back over in Washington, the Secretary
Speaker 1: of Defense, James Mattis. He had resigned in December eighteen,
Speaker 1: but his resignation takes effect in February of twenty nineteen,
Speaker 1: and this marks an end to the Trump administration's efforts
Speaker 1: to engage in the Yemen peace process. In April, Trump
Speaker 1: vetoed a bipartisan congressional measure that would force the US
Speaker 1: military to end its role in the Yemen War. By June.
Speaker 1: The U a E. Unilaterly scales back its military presence
Speaker 1: in Yemen while continuing to support the STC a k
Speaker 1: A the Southern Transitional Council, and the STC had sees
Speaker 1: at this point more power in Aiden. Meanwhile, the Hoothies
Speaker 1: step up their efforts to attack Saudi territory, including launching
Speaker 1: missiles at oil installations and airports. The Saudi and Yemeni
Speaker 1: forces capture Abus Amma and Mohajid, who is the leader
Speaker 1: of the so called Islamic State Yemen Province the I
Speaker 1: s y P. In July, the Emirates or the UAE
Speaker 1: announces it has completed its troop draw down or minimization
Speaker 1: in Yemen, but by August the STC effectively assumes control
Speaker 1: of the southern governance of a den Aban and Shabwa.
Speaker 1: By the end of August, the forces conduct air raids
Speaker 1: against the yemen government forces that are headed to a
Speaker 1: den to attempt to regain control. Also in August, the
Speaker 1: Hoothies launch Operation Victory from God against Saudi forces, and
Speaker 1: the Hoothies continue to escalate its attacks on Saudi oil installations.
Speaker 1: These operation names I will say poetic in a depressing
Speaker 1: sad way. In September, the Hoothies claimed to have used
Speaker 1: drones to bomb oil processing facilities in two cities in
Speaker 1: eastern Saudi Arabia. The attacks result in Saudi Arabia losing
Speaker 1: about half its output capacity, and even though the Hoothies
Speaker 1: take credit for the bombings, The international community at large
Speaker 1: blames Iran because Iran was thought to have provided the
Speaker 1: technical expertise that was needed to carry out such attacks.
Speaker 1: In November of twenty nineteen, in an effort to end
Speaker 1: the fighting between the coalition partners in Southern Yemen, Saudi
Speaker 1: Arabia and the U a E broker a power sharing
Speaker 1: agreement between their respective partners in the Yemen Government Forces
Speaker 1: and the STC. The Riad Agreement, which is what it
Speaker 1: was called, is signed in early November, but by December
Speaker 1: clashes resume between the two forces. Literally just a few
Speaker 1: weeks after it was signed. In January of leading up
Speaker 1: to February, fighting between the Saudi leg coalition and the
Speaker 1: Hohothies picks up. Huthi forces carry out missile attacks on
Speaker 1: military training caps and in Saudi Arabia's southern provinces is
Speaker 1: Whothies claimed to quote unquote liberate roughly a thousand, five
Speaker 1: hundred square miles of territory from the Al Jeff and
Speaker 1: Mareb governance from Saudi led forces, but this is a
Speaker 1: claim that the coalition denies. In March, remember when Huthi
Speaker 1: forces capture the strategic city of Husum in the edge
Speaker 1: Jeff offensive and the Saudi forces carried out a retaliatory
Speaker 1: air strike on Senna, the capital. March, if y'all remember,
Speaker 1: it's also when COVID officially made its big world debut.
Speaker 1: And I know the first cases happened in like late
Speaker 1: twenty nineteen, but I do think COVID really stole the
Speaker 1: show in March and has been the show ever since.
Speaker 1: But regardless, the Whosi's capturing the city of a Husum
Speaker 1: and the Saudi forces striking back with an air strike
Speaker 1: on Senna, this all happens in the midst of the
Speaker 1: beginnings of the COVID pandemic. The United Nations urges both
Speaker 1: sides to maintain the cease fire in order to prevent
Speaker 1: the pandemic from spreading in Yemen. This doesn't happen spoiler alert,
Speaker 1: But fearing that the hoothy rebels would control any incoming
Speaker 1: financial aid, the Trump administration announced as a freeze on
Speaker 1: seventy three million dollars in humanitarian aid to Yemen, which
Speaker 1: is a very big number, like objectively, but it's a
Speaker 1: huge number as far as what Yemen needs, as far
Speaker 1: as food and shelter and money like that. Makes a
Speaker 1: huge difference for a country that is in deep need
Speaker 1: of assistance, but Trump sucking sucks okay. In April, Saudi
Speaker 1: Arabia initiates a unilateral two weeks ceasefire to mitigate the
Speaker 1: risks of the new coronavirus pandemic. Days later, Yemen records
Speaker 1: its first known case of COVID nineteen. Despite the ceasefire,
Speaker 1: the Hoothies and the Saudi Look Coalition are both accused
Speaker 1: of carrying out attacks In the south. The st SEE
Speaker 1: once again demands self rule and it breaks its agreement
Speaker 1: with the national government. In June, the Southern Transitional Council
Speaker 1: deposes the recognized government in Skatra, with government supporters decrying
Speaker 1: the move as a coutata. The following month, the STC
Speaker 1: says that it has renounced its claim to self rule
Speaker 1: and will return to the previously agreed upon power sharing structure.
Speaker 1: Like not even two months, not even two months after
Speaker 1: the STC demanded self rule, It's like, actually, I was
Speaker 1: just kidding. I want to go back to the power
Speaker 1: sharing structure from before, and a lot of back and
Speaker 1: forth like this always seems to be happening in Yemen,
Speaker 1: but it also happens if you just keep in mind
Speaker 1: and so many nations that haven't necessarily maintained their roots
Speaker 1: long enough for something to grow, and I think Yemen
Speaker 1: has been in this soil stage for a really long time.
Speaker 1: If you just want to go with me with this metaphor, please.
Speaker 1: In October twenty the warring sides and Yemen carry out
Speaker 1: the conflict's largest prisoner swap. The following month, Saudi Arabia
Speaker 1: and the Hoothies have reportedly initiated back channel talks. From
Speaker 1: the saudiast side. Saudi officials indicated their willingness to sign
Speaker 1: a ceasefire and deal and end the Saudi air and
Speaker 1: sea blockade in exchange for the creation of a buffer
Speaker 1: zone between Hohothi controlled territory and Yemen and the Kingdom's borders.
Speaker 1: The Hohothies later claimed to have fired a missile at
Speaker 1: the coastal Saudi city of Judda. December, the STC and
Speaker 1: the Haddy government they formalize a new power sharing agreement
Speaker 1: in Aden. Prime Minister main Amadic Said is reappointed as
Speaker 1: head of the Hatty government's new cabinet, with the seats
Speaker 1: also going to both the STC and Yemen's Islaw party.
Speaker 1: Just weeks later, the new cabinet arrives in aid and
Speaker 1: from Saudi Arabia and an attack on the airport kills
Speaker 1: at least two dozen people, but no none of the ministers,
Speaker 1: the Hatty government, and the STC and much of the
Speaker 1: international community. They blame the Hoothies for the attack, and
Speaker 1: Saudi warplanes conduct a retaliatory air raid on Senna January.
Speaker 1: The Trump administration uses the December attack to justify designating
Speaker 1: the Hoothies as a foreign Terrorist organization or an f
Speaker 1: t O. The Hoothies are still able to consolidate control
Speaker 1: over about seventy of the empty population, and they threatened
Speaker 1: my Rib, which is a stronghold near the northeast corner
Speaker 1: of their control zone. My Rib is going to come
Speaker 1: up a bit, so ma Rib is a stronghold just
Speaker 1: beyond the threshold of the Hoothies control And then you
Speaker 1: guessed it. February. President Biden now enters the arena and
Speaker 1: he decides to take a new path. He announced his
Speaker 1: changes to the US policy towards Yemen, and this includes
Speaker 1: revoking the Hoothy FTO designation. So we'revoking the designation that
Speaker 1: the Hoothies are forced terrorist organization, and Biden also declares
Speaker 1: an end to the US support for the Saudi led
Speaker 1: coalitions offensive operations in the conflict. He appoints Timothy Lender
Speaker 1: King as the Special Envoy for Yemen. Biden shows his
Speaker 1: support in the UN lad peace process and he provides
Speaker 1: assurances to Saudi Arabia regarding the defense of its territory.
Speaker 1: Let's take our first little break here. I don't have
Speaker 1: a witty little segway to go to an ad break,
Speaker 1: but you know the drill. Just listen to the ads
Speaker 1: or press skip or whatever you do, and we will
Speaker 1: were back. We're back. This is Sharne. You probably need that.
Speaker 1: So okay, we left off with Biden showing support in
Speaker 1: the UN peace process and he's providing assurances to Saudi
Speaker 1: Arabia regarding the defense of its territory. But it also
Speaker 1: is after he declares an end to US support for
Speaker 1: the Saudi's offensive operations in the Yemen conflict. So after this,
Speaker 1: the Hoothy rebels launched an offensive in Marib City. Mari
Speaker 1: again is the final stronghold for government forces in the north.
Speaker 1: The city is also very significant because of its location.
Speaker 1: It is located very close to some of northern Yemen's
Speaker 1: richest oil fields. Marib also hosts nearly one million internally
Speaker 1: displaced persons, and intense clashes are expected to displace thousands more.
Speaker 1: By Marche, the conflict between the Hattie government and the
Speaker 1: Hoothies escalates in Marib. The fighting coincides with ongoing Hoothie
Speaker 1: missile and drone attacks against Saudi oil facilities, airports and
Speaker 1: air bases. Saudi Arabia retaliates with air strikes, particularly in
Speaker 1: the capital of Senna. The US then condemns the Hoothies
Speaker 1: actions riyad Ak Saudi arab Yeah. They propose a ceasefire,
Speaker 1: and this ceasefire would include the reopening of the Judaida
Speaker 1: Seaport and the Senna Airport. Who's these reject this proposal
Speaker 1: on the grounds that a full lifting of the ongoing
Speaker 1: blockade is a prerequisite for any such agreement. Between April
Speaker 1: and May one, strikes and counter strikes continue and they escalate.
Speaker 1: Both the U N Security Council and Ron's Foreign Minister
Speaker 1: Mohammad Javad Zadiv they voiced their support for the ceasefire
Speaker 1: between the various Yemeni forces. A discussion takes place between
Speaker 1: the Saudi Crown Prince mohammedd bsen Man and the us
Speaker 1: IS Special Envoy for Yemen, Tim Lender King. Lender King
Speaker 1: pushes for the Saudi Live Coalition to loosen the blockade
Speaker 1: on Jodeida and Senna. The u N Special Envoy for
Speaker 1: Yemen is Martin Griffiths at this point, and he's a
Speaker 1: British diplomat, so the us IS Special Envoy is Lender King.
Speaker 1: The u N s is Griffiths, and the Hoothies refused
Speaker 1: to meet with the u N Special Envoy to discuss
Speaker 1: any kind of the escalation of the conflict. We're now
Speaker 1: in auguste and a Hoothie attack wounds eight civilians on
Speaker 1: Saudi soil and it damages a commercial airliner. Amid continued
Speaker 1: attacks like this from the Hoothy rebels, the Biden administration
Speaker 1: withdraws and removes its most advanced missile defense systems from
Speaker 1: Saudi Arabia. Also by August of last year, nearly twenty
Speaker 1: million people, or two thirds of Yemen's entire population, are
Speaker 1: dependent on humanitarian aid for their daily needs. This includes
Speaker 1: very basic things like water and food and shelter, electricity,
Speaker 1: medical care, Martin Griffiths says that five million Yemenis are
Speaker 1: quote one step away from succumbing to famine and the
Speaker 1: diseases that go with it. As Hoothies continue to gain
Speaker 1: ground against Taddi government forces in Marib. The kind Tree
Speaker 1: of Oman It's also officially called the Sultanate of Oman.
Speaker 1: It's an Arabian country located in southwestern Asia at the
Speaker 1: Persian Gulf. So a Man attempts to broker a peace
Speaker 1: deal between Saudi Arabia and the Hoothies. Hoothy negotiators refused
Speaker 1: to meet with the newly appointed UN Special Envoy for Yemen,
Speaker 1: Hans Gruenberg, before the Saudi led coalition commits to the
Speaker 1: full lifting of the blockade on Jodda and Senna. After
Speaker 1: a very fleeting lull in hostilities in September of last year,
Speaker 1: the Hoothie rebels renew their offensive in the Marib government.
Speaker 1: The habit is a key district in the south of
Speaker 1: the city of Marib, and government forces had previously recaptured
Speaker 1: the habit from Hoothie control in July one, but in
Speaker 1: September the Hoothy rebels capture it again, and they continue
Speaker 1: their offensive in the Battle for Marib City. At this
Speaker 1: point in the timeline, the MNY people are taking to
Speaker 1: the streets and testing over the collapse of Yemen's currency
Speaker 1: and the inaccessibility for basic daily necessities. Government security forces
Speaker 1: forcefully respond to these widespread protests across southern Yemen, and
Speaker 1: this at the time kills three protesters. On September eight one,
Speaker 1: the WHO the execute nine people on charges of involvement
Speaker 1: in the Saudi like Coalition air strike of April twousand eighteen.
Speaker 1: This strike had killed Salva highly A Cement, who was
Speaker 1: the Who's the aligned de facto president of Yemen. A
Speaker 1: week or so later, on September seven of last year,
Speaker 1: a U s official delegation is formed and it includes
Speaker 1: the National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan, the Special Envoy to Yemen,
Speaker 1: Timothy Lender King in the National Security Council's Coordinator for
Speaker 1: the Middle East and North Africa, Brett McGurk. This delegation
Speaker 1: goes to meet with Saudi Arabia's Mahamanisman as well as
Speaker 1: Saudi Arabia's Deputy Defense Minister, and this is done in
Speaker 1: an attempt for a diplomatic solution for the Yemen conflict.
Speaker 1: By October one, the U N Human Rights Council votes
Speaker 1: against renewing the mandate for the Group of Eminent International
Speaker 1: and Regional Experts on the Yemen a k A. This
Speaker 1: is called the g e e UM and it had
Speaker 1: previously been the only independent body that was monitoring all
Speaker 1: parties to the conflict. An investigation in reported possible war
Speaker 1: crimes committed by all parties in Saudi Arabia had been
Speaker 1: accused of attempting to shut down the investigation. Clashes are
Speaker 1: continuing in Marib at this point between the Haddi government
Speaker 1: forces and the Houthies. By October seventeenth of last year,
Speaker 1: the Hoothies gained control of three districts in the Chebua
Speaker 1: government as well as two districts of the Marib government. Basically,
Speaker 1: they're slowly capturing district after districts in their efforts to
Speaker 1: have full control. In Nomber of One, the Hoothies sees
Speaker 1: the former site of the U. S Embassy in Senna
Speaker 1: and it detains its local employees. United States calls for
Speaker 1: the immediate release of these employees and it demands that
Speaker 1: the Hoothies vacate the premises, who the spokesperson announces the
Speaker 1: capture of two more districts in Marib, after already taking
Speaker 1: two other ones the month prior. Government forces prepared to
Speaker 1: defend their last remaining northern stronghold a k A Marib
Speaker 1: City and some two million civilians at this point are
Speaker 1: now trapped in the Marib governorate. Coalition aligned forces abandoned
Speaker 1: their position in the port city of Hohodeida, and this
Speaker 1: allows the rebels to retake the city. A ceasefire agreement
Speaker 1: had prohibited fighting between the two sides, and the government
Speaker 1: forces state that they are withdrawing troops from Houdeida to
Speaker 1: send them to reinforce the front lines. Okay, last year
Speaker 1: I break, here we go, but m we're back. Okay,
Speaker 1: we're wrapping out one and in December of last year,
Speaker 1: due to following international funding, the World Food Program the
Speaker 1: WFP cuts food aid tm in In November one, the
Speaker 1: WFP had targeted eleven point one million dollars for food assistance,
Speaker 1: but as the humanitarian situation deteriorates, the cost of food
Speaker 1: dramatically increases and becomes even harder to access. In the
Speaker 1: early months of January and February, the Hoothie rebels launched
Speaker 1: a series of unprecedented attacks against the UAE and Saudi Arabia.
Speaker 1: This included air attacks across the border and the seizing
Speaker 1: of a u A E vessel in the Red Sea.
Speaker 1: The Saudi Let Coalition response to these attacks with a
Speaker 1: bombing campaign and senna an attack on a northern prison
Speaker 1: and a strike on a telecomps facility in Hoodeta. This
Speaker 1: results in a four day internet blackout across the country
Speaker 1: and at this point ua E backed forces regained control
Speaker 1: of some areas near marib On February twenty three of
Speaker 1: this year, the U S Treasury Department announced new sanctions
Speaker 1: against individuals involved in a funding network for the Hoothies.
Speaker 1: During this time, the u N Security Council renewed for
Speaker 1: one year it's arms embargo on Yemen and continue to
Speaker 1: travel band and asset freeze on actors who threatened the piece.
Speaker 1: The Council condemns the Hoothie attacks on Saudi Arabia and
Speaker 1: the UAE that struck civilians and civilian infrastructure. Four countries
Speaker 1: in the u N abstained from this u N Security
Speaker 1: Council decision, and those four countries are Mexico, Ireland, Norway
Speaker 1: and Russia. On March six, the Hoothies reach an agreement
Speaker 1: with the United Nations to address the issue of an
Speaker 1: abandoned oil tanker in the Red Sea, the fs O
Speaker 1: Safer that pose a threat of a massive oil spill.
Speaker 1: The World Food Program declares that the humanitarian situation in
Speaker 1: Yemen is worsening because of the Russian war on Ukraine
Speaker 1: and the Whothies continue their attacks against Saudi oil facilities
Speaker 1: while the coalition continues its strikes against Senna and Judeida.
Speaker 1: Talks that are sponsored by the Gulf Corporation Council in
Speaker 1: the Yard begin between various parties to the Yemen conflict.
Speaker 1: The who these declined to participate in this, stating that
Speaker 1: these talks should be held in a neutral country. That
Speaker 1: same day, Sadi Arabia announces the secession of all military
Speaker 1: operations and Yemen as of March of this year. In April,
Speaker 1: the U n brokered a two month truce between the
Speaker 1: warring parties that was to start with the holy month
Speaker 1: of Ramadan for Muslims. The agreement was a notable step
Speaker 1: toward peace, as the last nationwide coordinated sensation of hostilities
Speaker 1: was during the peace talks in As these peace efforts
Speaker 1: gained traction with a two month cease fire exile, President
Speaker 1: menso had He transfers powers to a new Presidential Leadership Council.
Speaker 1: This council is led by a Shad E lalami Uh
Speaker 1: and members of the council were selected at a g
Speaker 1: c C sponsored talk in Ryab. It also includes those
Speaker 1: associated with the secessionist Southern Transitional Council, as well as
Speaker 1: those that were formerly part of the government under Haddie.
Speaker 1: Hadd He fires Vice President Daili Mussain e Lahmar, who
Speaker 1: has long been resented by the Hoothies, and Haddi delegates
Speaker 1: his powers to the Presidential Council. After the transfer of
Speaker 1: power is announced, Saudi Arabia and the U a E
Speaker 1: say they will provide three billion dollars to support Yemen's
Speaker 1: decimated economy. Despite a two month troops Hoothy forces resume
Speaker 1: attacks on the front lines of the battle from Marib,
Speaker 1: which had previously been static since February, and this happens
Speaker 1: after the U a E backed forces is pushed the
Speaker 1: Hoothies out of the center of one of the districts
Speaker 1: in my Rib, the Hareb District. It's during this time
Speaker 1: that the Hoothies also signed a action plan to prevent
Speaker 1: the recruitment and the use of children in the armed conflict.
Speaker 1: A senior Hoothy military official had said in that the
Speaker 1: group inducted eighteen thousand child soldiers into its army, some
Speaker 1: of whom were as young as ten years old. That's
Speaker 1: a that's a baby. Oh my gosh, it's really My
Speaker 1: heart hurts all the time. Okay, we're getting close to
Speaker 1: modern times here. In August of this year, the head
Speaker 1: of Yemen's Presidential Leadership Council, Alalami, he ordered the UAE
Speaker 1: back separatists to stop military operations in the Yemen's South.
Speaker 1: This notice was issued to the head of the STC
Speaker 1: and it was seen as an attempt by Alami to
Speaker 1: step in and stop an STC campaign against the rival
Speaker 1: factions within the government umbrella, and this would include Yemen's
Speaker 1: ISLAP Party. He said that all military operations should be
Speaker 1: stopped until the implementation of a troop redeployment in Yemen's South,
Speaker 1: and this was something that was stipulated in a power
Speaker 1: sharing agreement from twenty nineteen, and he wanted this to
Speaker 1: be fully implemented before they moved forward. These divisions within
Speaker 1: the Council really exposed its precarious nature because all the
Speaker 1: members are often ideologically opposed and they're only united by
Speaker 1: the opposition that they have to the Iran allied Hohothies
Speaker 1: as well as the support that they have from the
Speaker 1: Saudi led military coalition. In the southern Cheboa Governorate, which
Speaker 1: is a very resource rich area, the STC has made
Speaker 1: gains against the Slab Party and it's said in September,
Speaker 1: which is right now, that it had launched a quote
Speaker 1: anti terror operation in Chebwa's neighboring governorate of A Bienne.
Speaker 1: This operation, according to them, would quote cleanse of Bienne
Speaker 1: of terrorist organizations, which would include al Qaeda, while also
Speaker 1: securing Yemen's temporary capital of Aden and other southern governorates.
Speaker 1: After the Hoothies kind of invaded this governor. In the
Speaker 1: STC and other pro ua E factions, they blamed the
Speaker 1: Isla party for allowing the Hoothy advance. The removal of
Speaker 1: an ISLA aligned governor Mohammad Sawado in December of last year.
Speaker 1: This cemented the ascendancy of pro UAE forces, but the
Speaker 1: instability in the south of Yemen really complicates any kind
Speaker 1: of u and effort for a permanent ceasefire or an
Speaker 1: attempt to pave the way for political negotiations to end
Speaker 1: the war. The u N broker ceasefire agreement that we
Speaker 1: talked about being implemented in April this year a k Ramadan.
Speaker 1: It has drastically reduced the fighting between the two sides,
Speaker 1: but the outbreaks of violence still continue. This month, al
Speaker 1: Qaeda attacks killed at least thirty sold errs. The STC,
Speaker 1: which again is Yemen's main southern separatist group, is backed
Speaker 1: by the UAE and last month it expanded its presence
Speaker 1: throughout the Southern Abian province and what it described as
Speaker 1: a move to quote combat terrorist organizations and it's singling
Speaker 1: out al Qaeda. In a series of tweets, the STC
Speaker 1: dominated Security Belt said that six al Qaeda fighters were
Speaker 1: killed after the group launched a quote terrorist attack on
Speaker 1: its forces in the Ahua district in Ebion. It also
Speaker 1: added that yas said Nassai Shai, who was a commander
Speaker 1: belonging to the Security Belt quote anti terror brigade. It
Speaker 1: said that he was killed in the attack along with
Speaker 1: a number of his companions. I just wanted to bring
Speaker 1: in that little news because it just kind of happened
Speaker 1: this month, and obviously things are continuing to happen and
Speaker 1: it changes month after month, as you can tell. I'm
Speaker 1: laughing because it's said. Ut. Hopefully this gives some context
Speaker 1: to why Yemen is struggling so much, and I want
Speaker 1: to read some of the stuff, some of the statistics
Speaker 1: about Yemen really quick, because the scale of this is
Speaker 1: so immense. So this is from the World Food Program's website.
Speaker 1: The w FPS emergency response in Yemen is our largest
Speaker 1: anywhere in the world. The current level of hunger and
Speaker 1: Yemen is unprecedented and is causing severe hardship for millions
Speaker 1: of people. Despite ongoing commanitarian assistance, seventeen point four million
Speaker 1: Yeminies are food and secure. The number of food and
Speaker 1: secure people is projected to go up to nineteen million
Speaker 1: by December. The rate of child malnutrition is one of
Speaker 1: the highest in the world, and the nutrition situation continues
Speaker 1: to deteriorate. A recent survey showed that almost one third
Speaker 1: of families have gaps in their diets and hardly ever
Speaker 1: sumed foods like vegetables, fruit, dairy products, or meat or
Speaker 1: pulses a k a. Beans, peas, and lagoons. Malnutrition rates
Speaker 1: among women and children and Yemen remain among the highest
Speaker 1: in the world, with one point three million pregnant or
Speaker 1: breastfeeding women and two point two million children under five
Speaker 1: requiring treatment for acute malnutrition. Sometimes I think we can
Speaker 1: forget how many people is in a little statistic millions
Speaker 1: of people were talking. Two point two million children, one
Speaker 1: point three million pregnant or breastfeeding women. Just that number
Speaker 1: is so immense I can't comprehend it. And the fact
Speaker 1: that this is protected to go up by nineteen million
Speaker 1: in general for all yemen ease by December is devastating.
Speaker 1: And I think remembering how big numbers are, as elementary
Speaker 1: as that sounds, is pretty important for time to time,
Speaker 1: because I think at this point we are kind of
Speaker 1: unphased by numbers. But let me continue from the World
Speaker 1: Food Programs website really quick and wrap this all up.
Speaker 1: The humanitarian situation in Yemen is extremely fragile, and any
Speaker 1: disruption of the pipeline of critical supplies such as food, fuel,
Speaker 1: and medicines has the potential to bring millions of people
Speaker 1: closer to starvation and death. The WFP calls for unimpeded
Speaker 1: access to reach those most in need and avert famine.
Speaker 1: So here we are in a quick bury depressing submarine.
Speaker 1: Since twenty sixteen, a food in security crisis has been
Speaker 1: ongoing in Yemen, and this began during the Yemeni Civil War.
Speaker 1: The current level of hunger and Yemen is unprecedented and
Speaker 1: is causing severe hardship for millions of people. And despite
Speaker 1: ongoing humanitarian assistance, seventeen point four million Yemenis at this
Speaker 1: point in time our food instcut year, and this number
Speaker 1: of food and secure people is projected to go up
Speaker 1: by nineteen million by December. Maybe I'm being repetitive, but
Speaker 1: I think it's important to comprehend the crisis in Yemen
Speaker 1: is one of the most dire crises in the world,
Speaker 1: and this is brought on by protracted conflict, droughts, floods
Speaker 1: that are intensified by the climate crisis, COVID nineteen and
Speaker 1: other diseases. And despite all of this tragedy that we've
Speaker 1: been talking about, despite this humanitarian criminal thing that is happening,
Speaker 1: Yemen has failed to attract adequate support from donors for
Speaker 1: years and now it risks slipping further into oblivion. What
Speaker 1: a terrible depressing way to end this podcast, but I
Speaker 1: really do hope that these episodes at least gave you
Speaker 1: more awareness about what's going on in Yemen and just
Speaker 1: how dire the situation is. And there are so many
Speaker 1: com it's in the world. There are so many causes
Speaker 1: that deserve our attention, obviously, but I do think it's
Speaker 1: important from time to time to think about the causes
Speaker 1: that you may not be affected by and remember that
Speaker 1: everyone is human just like you and the privilege that
Speaker 1: you have um if you choose to engage with your
Speaker 1: privilege and use it for good, can make a huge
Speaker 1: difference to people that need assistance. At this point, I'm
Speaker 1: going to start rambling, so before I do that, I
Speaker 1: just want to thank you for paying attention to my
Speaker 1: PROFESSORI talk and saying that office hours are now closed.
Speaker 1: Good eye. Hey. We'll be back Monday with more episodes
Speaker 1: every week from now until the heat death of the universe.
Speaker 1: It could happen. Here is a production of cool Zone Media.
Speaker 1: For more podcasts and cool Zone Media, visit our website
Speaker 1: cool zone media dot com, or check us out on
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Speaker 1: could happen here. Updated monthly at cool Zone Media dot
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