WEBVTT - It Could Happen Here Weekly 53 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:02.680 Hey, everybody, Robert Evans here, and I wanted to let 0:00:02.720 --> 0:00:06.400 you know this is a compiletion episode. So every episode 0:00:06.480 --> 0:00:09.600 of the week that just happened is here in one 0:00:09.680 --> 0:00:13.440 convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to 0:00:13.480 --> 0:00:15.960 listen to in a long stretch if you want. If 0:00:16.000 --> 0:00:17.919 you've been listening to the episodes every day this week, 0:00:17.960 --> 0:00:20.159 there's gonna be nothing new here for you, but you 0:00:20.160 --> 0:00:27.840 can make your own decisions. Welcome back to it could 0:00:27.880 --> 0:00:31.960 happen here, a podcast about things falling apart. This week 0:00:32.080 --> 0:00:33.919 we have an episode that is in the vein of 0:00:33.920 --> 0:00:35.800 what my co host Garrison Davis and I like to 0:00:35.840 --> 0:00:39.519 call Here's a problem, goodbye episodes. UH. And the problem 0:00:39.600 --> 0:00:41.680 is that there has been a massive and as far 0:00:41.720 --> 0:00:45.640 as I can tell, unprecedented wave of swatting incidents against 0:00:45.720 --> 0:00:49.479 public schools and multiple states over the last couple of weeks. UH. 0:00:49.479 --> 0:00:51.279 And here with me to talk about that is the 0:00:51.320 --> 0:00:55.360 person who noticed it first, UH, anti fascist researcher UH 0:00:55.480 --> 0:01:00.280 and community meeting note taker Molly Conjure. Molly, you are 0:01:00.400 --> 0:01:04.039 socialist dog Mom on Twitter, where you are a sensation 0:01:04.160 --> 0:01:07.320 with your delightful little pups um and also one of 0:01:07.360 --> 0:01:10.280 the best researchers that I know in the biz. Welcome 0:01:10.360 --> 0:01:15.000 to the show. Great to be here. So yeah, you 0:01:15.000 --> 0:01:18.360 want to start. Yeah. So this has been going on, 0:01:18.400 --> 0:01:20.920 I guess for two weeks. There's been this wave of 0:01:20.959 --> 0:01:24.160 swattings against schools across the country. UM, and I didn't 0:01:24.160 --> 0:01:27.440 notice it until it happened here. Um. We had to 0:01:27.440 --> 0:01:31.840 restart this so many times. I feel like it's great though, 0:01:31.880 --> 0:01:35.600 you should because it happened here. I love it. We 0:01:35.680 --> 0:01:37.679 can say the name of the show and we finally 0:01:37.720 --> 0:01:39.920 get to do it. Yeah, but you know, you know, 0:01:39.959 --> 0:01:43.520 my attention is primarily local. So on Monday, when every 0:01:43.520 --> 0:01:46.000 cop in the region was dispatched to Charlttesville High School 0:01:46.040 --> 0:01:48.840 because there was a false report of an active shooter 0:01:48.920 --> 0:01:52.200 inside the school, Um, it was quickly determined to be 0:01:52.240 --> 0:01:55.160 a squatting right, so they dispatched everybody. They locked the 0:01:55.160 --> 0:01:57.160 school down, they cleared the classrooms with guns. You know, 0:01:57.200 --> 0:02:00.200 kids reported being terrified of you know, because it was 0:02:00.200 --> 0:02:03.000 happy to them. They were just enjoying, you know, an 0:02:03.000 --> 0:02:04.720 afternoon in high school and all of a sudden, there's 0:02:04.720 --> 0:02:07.640 a man with a rifle in their classroom. Um, And 0:02:07.680 --> 0:02:09.600 it was quickly determined to have been a squatting, and 0:02:09.600 --> 0:02:11.600 I was listening over the scanner and by the time 0:02:11.639 --> 0:02:13.720 they were clearing the scene, that's what they were calling it. 0:02:13.960 --> 0:02:16.720 So the police identified it as a swatting, like through 0:02:16.800 --> 0:02:19.640 over the Yeah, and I think that may have they 0:02:19.680 --> 0:02:23.040 may have arrived at that conclusion more quickly because a 0:02:23.120 --> 0:02:25.320 dozen other districts had it at the same time. So 0:02:25.360 --> 0:02:28.760 across the state of Virginia, UM districts you know, from 0:02:28.760 --> 0:02:32.560 Hampton Roads to Arlington, Culpepper, Lynchburg, like tiny towns in 0:02:32.600 --> 0:02:35.920 Shenandoah County, like a town with four thousand people down 0:02:36.760 --> 0:02:38.560 you know, in the southern part of the state, we're 0:02:38.639 --> 0:02:41.720 hit almost exactly the same time with these hoax calls 0:02:41.760 --> 0:02:43.480 about you know, I gotta get somebody down to the 0:02:43.480 --> 0:02:47.520 school because there's somebody with a gun. Good lord. It's 0:02:47.520 --> 0:02:49.080 so you know, it happened all over the place. All 0:02:49.080 --> 0:02:51.000 of these schools were quickly cleared. No one was hurt, 0:02:51.040 --> 0:02:55.519 thank god. UM. But as we think, you know, as 0:02:55.520 --> 0:02:57.160 the news was coming in, I was picking, you know, 0:02:57.160 --> 0:02:59.360 picking through trying to find the districts where this was happening. 0:03:01.400 --> 0:03:03.480 And I was pulling up these news articles and it 0:03:03.520 --> 0:03:07.600 wasn't just us, and it wasn't just that day, so 0:03:07.720 --> 0:03:10.320 it's I think the earliest I can find in this 0:03:10.520 --> 0:03:14.920 rash was what is that two weeks ago in Texas? 0:03:15.000 --> 0:03:17.600 A bunch of districts in Texas were hit. Uh And 0:03:17.639 --> 0:03:20.040 the one in Houston I think is particularly grim because 0:03:20.080 --> 0:03:22.960 the caller, the caller said, you know, oh, ten students 0:03:22.960 --> 0:03:25.240 have already been shot there in the classroom. It's two 0:03:25.280 --> 0:03:28.280 guys with a rs and they gave this is one 0:03:28.320 --> 0:03:30.840 of the one of the ones that the best described 0:03:30.840 --> 0:03:33.160 in the media is that the caller gave a description 0:03:33.200 --> 0:03:35.720 of the two shooters. And that's what scares me, right, 0:03:35.800 --> 0:03:38.360 is that the cops show up with a description in mind, 0:03:39.040 --> 0:03:41.560 they're going to act with extreme prejudice if they see 0:03:41.600 --> 0:03:44.800 someone who fits that description. There's a Hispanic guy in 0:03:44.800 --> 0:03:49.160 the parking lot that you know, it could be a risk. Well, 0:03:49.160 --> 0:03:52.680 and that's that's the first one. Like when I shared 0:03:52.880 --> 0:03:56.480 your early posts on this, people from Houston started showing 0:03:56.560 --> 0:03:58.520 up and saying like, hey, you know, we had something 0:03:58.600 --> 0:04:00.360 like this hit a couple of weeks go, and it 0:04:00.440 --> 0:04:03.400 sounds like it's the same thing. And these are I mean, 0:04:03.440 --> 0:04:09.080 like number one, the scale of this, it feels unlikely 0:04:09.200 --> 0:04:12.280 that at some level. I know there's there's certainly possible, 0:04:13.000 --> 0:04:15.520 an extreme likelihood that some of these are copycats, some 0:04:15.560 --> 0:04:18.200 of these are people falling in. But the sheer number 0:04:18.240 --> 0:04:21.400 of them makes it seems it's hard to believe that 0:04:21.440 --> 0:04:24.600 this would all be unrelated, all of these calls would 0:04:24.600 --> 0:04:26.760 be unrelated to each other. I think, you know, I 0:04:26.800 --> 0:04:30.240 don't know what the background level of normal slottings is, 0:04:30.360 --> 0:04:33.000 right like, I'm sure to a certain degree this is 0:04:33.040 --> 0:04:35.400 happening somewhere all the time. You know, people are saying, oh, 0:04:35.440 --> 0:04:37.600 it's just kids who don't want to take tests. Yeah, 0:04:38.080 --> 0:04:40.960 fifteen schools in Minnesota where hit simultaneously yesterday. This isn't 0:04:41.000 --> 0:04:44.760 kids who don't want to take that right simultaneously, so 0:04:44.800 --> 0:04:48.479 many schools, And it's there is a point there, which is, 0:04:48.560 --> 0:04:51.200 you know, because people when I started sharing this and stuff, 0:04:51.200 --> 0:04:53.320 people like, well, what are we supposed to do? And 0:04:53.520 --> 0:04:56.240 the first thing that occurs to me is actually not 0:04:56.320 --> 0:04:58.760 a preventative measure, but is purely just like, well, we 0:04:58.800 --> 0:05:00.720 should probably have some sort of least at a state 0:05:00.800 --> 0:05:03.560 level system in every state for letting people know how 0:05:03.560 --> 0:05:07.280 many fake swatting attempts agat schools are happening, How many 0:05:07.360 --> 0:05:11.360 like false reports of mass shootings at schools occur like 0:05:11.800 --> 0:05:14.720 it would be because otherwise we can't tell if this 0:05:14.760 --> 0:05:16.840 is rising above the level of background. I think it's 0:05:16.839 --> 0:05:20.520 clear this is because neither of us can think of 0:05:20.560 --> 0:05:22.400 a time when there were this many in such a 0:05:22.440 --> 0:05:26.400 short period of time. But dozens a day, dozens a day, 0:05:26.480 --> 0:05:29.040 there should be some method of keeping track of that 0:05:29.120 --> 0:05:31.400 because it is. I thought, that's a lesson of nine 0:05:31.400 --> 0:05:34.839 eleven rights that don't have inter agency communication. Like you know, 0:05:35.080 --> 0:05:37.120 on Monday, when it was hitting all these schools in Virginia, 0:05:37.200 --> 0:05:39.120 some of the early reports were, you know, quotes from 0:05:39.160 --> 0:05:41.599 local authorities saying we talked to the state police and 0:05:41.600 --> 0:05:43.360 this happened to to other people. It's like, well, I've 0:05:43.360 --> 0:05:46.320 already found ten other reports. Did the state police know 0:05:46.360 --> 0:05:50.839 about these? Yeah? And it's it's this is um. Obviously 0:05:51.600 --> 0:05:54.080 none of this is as bad as a single actual 0:05:54.160 --> 0:05:57.760 mass shooting at a school. But this isn't like nothing either. 0:05:57.839 --> 0:06:00.800 It's not like you you file a false report about, 0:06:00.960 --> 0:06:03.200 I don't know, a break in and the cops drive 0:06:03.240 --> 0:06:05.800 around a neighborhood for a while, like this is kids 0:06:05.800 --> 0:06:08.440 getting guns pointed in their faces. This is children thinking 0:06:08.480 --> 0:06:10.680 that like their friends have been massacred. This is like 0:06:10.880 --> 0:06:13.760 parents thinking their kids might be dead. This is this. 0:06:13.760 --> 0:06:16.120 This is an act of violence, like doing this as 0:06:16.160 --> 0:06:18.800 an act of violence and it ripples. Right, the effects 0:06:18.880 --> 0:06:22.080 of this are are compound and unfathomable. You know, I 0:06:22.360 --> 0:06:25.000 heard from friends in the community saying, you know, I 0:06:25.040 --> 0:06:27.280 got a text from my thirteen year old son saying, 0:06:27.360 --> 0:06:29.640 I don't know what's happening, but I love you. And 0:06:29.680 --> 0:06:32.560 even if, even if you know, thirty minutes later, the 0:06:32.640 --> 0:06:34.920 dangerous passed and everyone knows it was a false alarm. 0:06:35.120 --> 0:06:38.640 For that thirty minutes, those parents thought, I thought that 0:06:38.680 --> 0:06:40.359 their kids weren't going to come home. And you know, 0:06:40.400 --> 0:06:42.280 it's a background fear the parents have every day. When 0:06:42.279 --> 0:06:44.279 they said that, but that's the text no parent wants 0:06:44.320 --> 0:06:46.320 to get right. You know, before we lost the recording earlier, 0:06:46.360 --> 0:06:49.080 I was telling you about a a surgeon here in Charletsville. 0:06:49.120 --> 0:06:51.880 She's a surgeon at EBA Hospital. So the hospital was 0:06:51.920 --> 0:06:54.320 alerted about a possible mass casualty incident so they could 0:06:54.320 --> 0:06:57.440 prepare their their operating rooms and swimming gets the mass 0:06:57.520 --> 0:07:01.640 casualty incident alert as she's scrubbing in for a scheduled surgery. 0:07:01.839 --> 0:07:03.560 So she has to walk into that, She has to 0:07:03.560 --> 0:07:06.600 walk into that o R without her phone knowing that 0:07:06.720 --> 0:07:10.160 her child's school, to her knowledge in that moment, has 0:07:10.200 --> 0:07:12.200 a mass shooter inside of it. And so she doesn't 0:07:12.200 --> 0:07:13.640 know if when she walks out of that o R 0:07:14.560 --> 0:07:18.560 are her children going to be in there. That's horrific. 0:07:19.200 --> 0:07:22.960 That's horrific. And also like that could get somebody killed. 0:07:22.960 --> 0:07:26.560 And this is nothing care. It would not be surprising 0:07:26.600 --> 0:07:29.200 if she was less able to properly provide care in 0:07:29.200 --> 0:07:32.960 that situation. That's just being a person. Um. So this 0:07:33.040 --> 0:07:37.960 is serious, very serious, and it um So yesterday a 0:07:38.080 --> 0:07:41.640 rash of them hit Minnesota, and some locals in Minnesota 0:07:41.680 --> 0:07:42.840 were saying that so one of the schools that was 0:07:42.920 --> 0:07:46.000 hit was East main Cato High School the day before, 0:07:46.160 --> 0:07:49.440 so the day before yesterday that at that high school, 0:07:49.520 --> 0:07:51.720 a student at that high school attempted suicide with a 0:07:51.720 --> 0:07:54.360 firearm in the parking lot. So kids came back to 0:07:54.400 --> 0:07:57.200 school the day after this. You know, the students survived 0:07:57.440 --> 0:08:00.440 in his hospitalized, but you know they're coming to school 0:08:00.880 --> 0:08:04.200 hopefully to you know, access counseling resources and deal with 0:08:04.240 --> 0:08:06.200 the fact that one of their classmates shot himself in 0:08:06.240 --> 0:08:08.960 the parking lot and suddenly they're sheltering in place and 0:08:09.000 --> 0:08:14.400 there's cops with guns. Just there's a baseline reality for 0:08:14.440 --> 0:08:18.120 these students every day that gun violence is present, and 0:08:18.120 --> 0:08:21.120 this is just cruel to them. One of the things 0:08:21.120 --> 0:08:24.040 that surprises me. We you and I you started what 0:08:24.200 --> 0:08:27.840 was it four days ago now, kind of reporting this 0:08:27.920 --> 0:08:29.800 on your Twitter, which is where you do. You're reporting 0:08:29.800 --> 0:08:34.439 on local news and the anti fascist reporting as well. Um, 0:08:34.520 --> 0:08:36.760 and so I started sharing your stuff and I we 0:08:36.840 --> 0:08:39.920 started chatting about doing an episode. And my suspicion, the 0:08:39.960 --> 0:08:43.600 thing I was expecting was that like, well, we'll probably 0:08:43.920 --> 0:08:46.560 get scooped on this, right, Like there's probably like vice 0:08:46.600 --> 0:08:48.520 or somebody is going to put out something because there's 0:08:48.559 --> 0:08:52.400 just there's too damn many of these. Um it's Thursday now, 0:08:52.559 --> 0:08:56.280 the started Monday. I still haven't seen any coverage of 0:08:56.280 --> 0:08:58.839 this as a as a wave of swattings, and I'm 0:08:58.920 --> 0:09:02.640 kind of surprised by at there's a few, Like you know, regionally, 0:09:02.880 --> 0:09:05.040 people are putting together and doing these little quick hits 0:09:05.040 --> 0:09:06.920 about like, oh, this happened in a dozen districts in 0:09:06.920 --> 0:09:09.280 our state. Yeah, but I'm not I'm not seeing anyone 0:09:09.360 --> 0:09:11.560 connect the dots nationally, and you know, and some of 0:09:11.600 --> 0:09:14.000 these local stories are saying the local authorities are talking 0:09:14.040 --> 0:09:16.439 to the FBI, but I don't know that there's a 0:09:16.440 --> 0:09:21.200 cohesive nationwide investigation into this as as a phenomenon. Regionally, 0:09:21.240 --> 0:09:24.720 there is some indication that, like these calls are connected. 0:09:24.760 --> 0:09:26.160 So I saw an article that just came out an 0:09:26.200 --> 0:09:29.240 hour ago in Minnesota that all of the Minnesota calls 0:09:29.280 --> 0:09:33.120 came from the same IP address. Ah, So this that's 0:09:33.200 --> 0:09:35.600 I mean, that's what that's the proof we're looking for though, 0:09:35.640 --> 0:09:38.360 that's the evidence we're looking for that, like there's a 0:09:38.360 --> 0:09:41.719 significant degree degree to which this stuff is is coordinated. 0:09:41.880 --> 0:09:45.920 And when I because this is something that since you 0:09:46.040 --> 0:09:49.360 started talking about it, every researcher I know who covers 0:09:49.360 --> 0:09:53.080 extremism has been talking about at least a little bit 0:09:53.200 --> 0:09:56.280 in like private conversation signal loops. And the thing that 0:09:56.360 --> 0:09:58.400 keeps coming up is like, is there some ship on 0:09:58.480 --> 0:10:00.640 Kiwi farms? Is there some ship on four chance? Is 0:10:00.679 --> 0:10:03.600 there some ship on like these these little spaces. I 0:10:03.600 --> 0:10:07.600 haven't seen anything nothing, So yeah, and you know, to 0:10:07.640 --> 0:10:10.400 some degree there is the possibility of social contagion, right, 0:10:10.400 --> 0:10:12.360 Like I found a few stories that don't fit the pattern. 0:10:12.480 --> 0:10:16.079 Specific cases like yesterday in Roanoke, a fourteen year old 0:10:16.120 --> 0:10:18.480 girl was arrested for making one of these threats. She 0:10:18.559 --> 0:10:21.000 didn't make all of them, she made this one. Did 0:10:21.000 --> 0:10:22.920 she do this with what she inspired to do? So? 0:10:23.000 --> 0:10:25.520 Because of this? Was it unrelated? It's hard to say. 0:10:25.520 --> 0:10:28.719 So this at some point, even if it did originate 0:10:28.840 --> 0:10:32.760 in one incubator, it breaks containment. And I'm I am 0:10:32.840 --> 0:10:36.920 certain that's part of the intent, right, Like when you 0:10:37.000 --> 0:10:40.400 do the benefit of if you're thinking about because again, 0:10:40.480 --> 0:10:42.120 we don't know who did this. We don't know what 0:10:42.280 --> 0:10:46.120 kind of ideology or whatever or why was behind it, 0:10:46.600 --> 0:10:49.360 but we know that a significant number of them like 0:10:49.640 --> 0:10:53.640 occurred from a single source, which means like something coordinated 0:10:54.080 --> 0:10:57.000 was happening at some stage of this. That's a reasonable 0:10:57.040 --> 0:11:01.080 conclusion to draw from the extent information um And I 0:11:01.160 --> 0:11:03.920 think it's just pure psychic terrorism, right because my first 0:11:03.920 --> 0:11:06.920 thought on Monday was, is this someone testing the fences? 0:11:07.040 --> 0:11:10.240 Is this someone timing response times? Is someone watching local 0:11:10.240 --> 0:11:12.520 news coverage to see what kind of equipment the police have? 0:11:13.559 --> 0:11:16.839 That doesn't make sense at this scale. This isn't how 0:11:16.880 --> 0:11:18.720 you would do that, because this is going to draw 0:11:18.760 --> 0:11:21.760 too much attention, right, and like, why would you want 0:11:21.840 --> 0:11:25.240 to know the you know, the police capabilities in Emporia, Virginia, 0:11:25.280 --> 0:11:27.360 which is just like three truck stops in high school. 0:11:27.600 --> 0:11:29.920 No offense to the beautiful town of Emporia of Virginia. 0:11:30.000 --> 0:11:33.040 It is Virginia's greatest speed trap. God bless them. Yeah, 0:11:33.720 --> 0:11:37.360 but like that, that theory immediately fell by the wayside 0:11:37.360 --> 0:11:40.040 for me because it doesn't make sense. But it is interesting. 0:11:40.080 --> 0:11:42.480 So I've been, you know, trying to compile follow ups 0:11:42.480 --> 0:11:44.439 on some of these reports because the initial reporting is 0:11:44.520 --> 0:11:47.760 vague and people use nine one one as shorthand sol 0:11:47.800 --> 0:11:49.959 They'll say a nine one one call, But was it 0:11:50.080 --> 0:11:52.000 actually a nine one one call? Because that makes a 0:11:52.040 --> 0:11:55.960 huge difference here dialing nine one one is you know, 0:11:56.559 --> 0:11:58.720 I'm not a genius about how technology works, but if 0:11:58.760 --> 0:12:01.040 I done INLINEE one here of my living room, it 0:12:01.120 --> 0:12:04.319 hits my closest emergency communications center, right, it's my local 0:12:04.400 --> 0:12:06.440 nine one one. If these calls are being made from 0:12:06.440 --> 0:12:10.679 out of state, it takes a high degree of technical 0:12:10.720 --> 0:12:15.760 ability to hit a dispatch center where you aren't. Yeah, right, 0:12:15.800 --> 0:12:17.440 so we know we're not dealing with someone who is 0:12:17.480 --> 0:12:22.600 capable of that Alternatively, we know perhaps that this person 0:12:22.679 --> 0:12:25.520 knows that making a false nine one one call is 0:12:25.559 --> 0:12:30.920 a separately prosecutable crime. Right, So like the articles that 0:12:30.960 --> 0:12:33.920 are specific will say that the call came in directly 0:12:33.960 --> 0:12:36.920 to police dispatch, or the call came in to the 0:12:36.920 --> 0:12:39.320 front desk at the sheriff's office. So these people know 0:12:39.440 --> 0:12:42.160 well enough how to contact the you know, the front 0:12:42.160 --> 0:12:44.200 desk at the police department and the name of a 0:12:44.200 --> 0:12:48.040 school that's nearby right there. It's not it's not so 0:12:48.120 --> 0:12:50.600 vague as as to just be dialing random police stations 0:12:50.600 --> 0:12:54.400 and saying go to the high school. And that also again, 0:12:54.480 --> 0:12:57.760 because we we've just mentioned, I haven't seen any evidence 0:12:57.800 --> 0:13:00.280 of this in the places you would expect if this 0:13:00.400 --> 0:13:02.640 was the way. It's a lot of these docks in 0:13:02.720 --> 0:13:04.640 campaigns have gone the way a lot of Kiwi farm 0:13:04.720 --> 0:13:07.080 stuff goes the way a lot of swatting happens, where 0:13:07.120 --> 0:13:10.199 like you have a shipload of people openly talking about 0:13:10.320 --> 0:13:13.600 and talking about bad things happening to a targeted person, 0:13:13.960 --> 0:13:17.800 and then some of those people do swattings. Right, there's 0:13:17.800 --> 0:13:20.400 no evidence of that, And the way in which it 0:13:20.559 --> 0:13:24.680 seems like the bulk of these have gone doesn't seem 0:13:24.679 --> 0:13:26.640 like the way it would happen if you were just 0:13:26.760 --> 0:13:29.680 kind of targeting someone in a public area and hoping 0:13:29.720 --> 0:13:34.960 that enough people made the decision independently to make these calls. Um. 0:13:35.080 --> 0:13:37.720 There's my other thought too, that you know, it's sort 0:13:37.720 --> 0:13:40.840 of a limpse of TikTok phenomenon, like they're targeting schools 0:13:40.880 --> 0:13:44.240 with you know, woke policies, CRT gender including they're not 0:13:44.360 --> 0:13:47.400 I mean, they get Lynchburg, Virginia, which is Jerry Folwell country. 0:13:47.640 --> 0:13:52.320 There's no demographic or political consistency to the district's being 0:13:52.320 --> 0:13:55.160 targeted well, and the right hasn't picked this up at all. 0:13:55.320 --> 0:13:57.719 I haven't seen any kind of like very no one, 0:13:58.520 --> 0:14:00.720 very few people seem to have at this point. So 0:14:01.240 --> 0:14:04.800 this is just such a h if I were, if 0:14:04.800 --> 0:14:09.160 I were to guess where this is going down, it's 0:14:09.200 --> 0:14:12.600 some some sort of communications platform where people have a 0:14:12.640 --> 0:14:17.120 degree of privacy. Um. And I don't know, if it's 0:14:17.160 --> 0:14:20.280 not testing the fences, which at this point it seems 0:14:20.320 --> 0:14:25.040 too widespread to be, then it may just be kind 0:14:25.040 --> 0:14:27.520 of pure. I mean, one thing that occurs to me 0:14:27.600 --> 0:14:31.360 is just like there's the pure accelerationist of value of 0:14:31.360 --> 0:14:34.640 of setting up this wave and hoping that that the 0:14:34.680 --> 0:14:37.440 copycat effect will just keep it going for a significant 0:14:37.440 --> 0:14:40.760 period of time, of shutting down dozens of schools around 0:14:40.760 --> 0:14:44.320 the country, of traumatizing kids, of continually making those schools 0:14:44.400 --> 0:14:46.240 roll the dice. Because anytime you have a cop with 0:14:46.280 --> 0:14:48.520 an a R bust into a fucking school, hyped up 0:14:48.560 --> 0:14:50.880 thinking there's a shooting, there's a chance someone's going to 0:14:50.920 --> 0:14:53.360 get shot, right, So there's and that's that's I mean, 0:14:53.520 --> 0:14:55.880 there have been deaths from swattings, and that was that 0:14:56.000 --> 0:14:58.680 was But so it happened here two days in a 0:14:58.760 --> 0:15:01.440 row on Tuesday, happened in our middle school. And so 0:15:01.480 --> 0:15:04.280 like the second time they responded, they didn't respond. Is 0:15:04.320 --> 0:15:07.480 hot and heavy. Uh. Yeah, anytime you get you know, 0:15:07.480 --> 0:15:09.480 cops charging into a scenario where they think they might 0:15:09.600 --> 0:15:11.480 get to or have to, depending on how you feel 0:15:11.480 --> 0:15:14.120 about it, use their guns, the risk of someone being 0:15:14.120 --> 0:15:17.480 shot by accident is pastronomical. Yeah, And I honestly, I'm 0:15:17.560 --> 0:15:20.040 kind of shocked that has it happened, especially in the 0:15:20.040 --> 0:15:24.080 cases where you know, the caller gives a specific suspect 0:15:24.160 --> 0:15:26.840 description that you know puts anybody who vaguely meets that 0:15:26.880 --> 0:15:29.880 description at great risk. But I think this is just 0:15:30.160 --> 0:15:35.480 you know, joker mode nihilism. Yeah, that's that is if 0:15:35.520 --> 0:15:40.600 I were to like make a raw irresponsible like public guests. Um, 0:15:40.840 --> 0:15:42.880 not that I don't think this is actually that irresponsible, 0:15:42.920 --> 0:15:45.600 but like we just don't know. But that's that's what 0:15:45.800 --> 0:15:50.080 this that's the the mo this fits best so far 0:15:50.440 --> 0:15:53.600 is kind of raw. I want to disrupt the system, 0:15:53.680 --> 0:15:56.200 I want to scare people, and I want to do 0:15:56.280 --> 0:15:58.720 so in a way. That's the problem with a mass 0:15:58.720 --> 0:16:01.640 shooting from the perspect of someone like this is that 0:16:01.680 --> 0:16:04.200 you're gonna die or get arrested doing it, right, That's 0:16:04.200 --> 0:16:06.720 the way all of them end, And so that limits 0:16:06.720 --> 0:16:08.720 the number of people who are going to be inspired 0:16:08.760 --> 0:16:12.120 to carry out a mass shooting. If you can show that, yeah, 0:16:12.160 --> 0:16:15.000 people can can call in dozens of these fake reports 0:16:15.000 --> 0:16:18.520 and some of them you know, we're going to end violently, Uh, 0:16:18.680 --> 0:16:21.000 then maybe a bunch more people are willing to do that, 0:16:21.080 --> 0:16:23.760 and the overall level of disruption and chaos that you 0:16:23.800 --> 0:16:27.920 cause is substantially higher. Right, So it's a relatively low 0:16:28.000 --> 0:16:30.400 threshold for involvement. Right, you don't have to be ready 0:16:30.440 --> 0:16:33.640 to die and maybe you won't get caught. Although I 0:16:33.680 --> 0:16:36.360 think because especially in the Minnesota case, they're going to 0:16:36.440 --> 0:16:39.200 catch somebody. Governor Tim Waltz's son goes to man Cato 0:16:39.280 --> 0:16:42.600 High School. No, I mean you you you upset the 0:16:42.600 --> 0:16:45.280 governor's son, You're gonna get Yeah, and you did it 0:16:45.320 --> 0:16:49.239 all from a single like and I have to suspect 0:16:49.800 --> 0:16:54.040 the FBI is looking at this. They never I mean, 0:16:54.080 --> 0:16:57.200 it's policy, they're never going to confirm that until the 0:16:57.240 --> 0:16:59.680 point at which like it becomes there's it's a big 0:16:59.760 --> 0:17:02.560 enough story that they kind of have to for pr reasons. 0:17:03.080 --> 0:17:05.040 But I would be surprised if there was not an 0:17:05.080 --> 0:17:07.199 investigation at the moment. Every couple of days when one 0:17:07.200 --> 0:17:09.399 of these regional stories comes out, you know, they'll quote 0:17:09.400 --> 0:17:12.159 the local FBI field officing, you know, we're working with 0:17:12.200 --> 0:17:14.800 local authorities to help them investigate. But the FBI is 0:17:14.840 --> 0:17:18.360 absolutely investigating this nationwide. There's no chance that they're not. Yeah, 0:17:18.400 --> 0:17:21.480 it's it's too it's too clear of a pattern. And 0:17:21.520 --> 0:17:24.000 it's not unprecedented, right that a couple of years ago 0:17:24.080 --> 0:17:26.280 there was that Adam Often swatting ring that those guys 0:17:26.320 --> 0:17:28.399 did go to prison for. So it doesn't have to 0:17:28.440 --> 0:17:30.399 be a lot of guys. This could just be a 0:17:30.440 --> 0:17:32.280 couple of people. So you know, we're saying we're not 0:17:32.320 --> 0:17:34.399 seeing this leak out anywhere. It's not being disgust anywhere. 0:17:34.440 --> 0:17:36.200 It could just be you know, three or four guys. 0:17:36.400 --> 0:17:38.760 It could be for four people in a discord with 0:17:38.800 --> 0:17:42.479 some like auto dialing apps that they've they've either coded, 0:17:42.720 --> 0:17:46.080 are found somewhere on the internet. Um, which if they 0:17:46.240 --> 0:17:48.919 if they are using some sort of like program to 0:17:48.960 --> 0:17:52.359 do this, that's meant for I don't know, sketchy uh 0:17:52.359 --> 0:17:54.879 salesman or whatever, there's a decent chance that's what brings 0:17:54.880 --> 0:17:59.080 them down, um because all of that ship has terrible security, 0:17:59.240 --> 0:18:02.560 but um so does discord. I don't know, Like I, 0:18:03.119 --> 0:18:06.080 it'll be interesting to see what happens here. I think 0:18:06.119 --> 0:18:10.359 one of the questions for from the perspective certainly of 0:18:10.440 --> 0:18:13.159 like people listening, what can be done here? Well, at 0:18:13.160 --> 0:18:16.480 a local level, one thing people can fight for and 0:18:16.520 --> 0:18:19.640 advocate for specialty, especially if you're involved in local government, 0:18:19.800 --> 0:18:23.560 is like I would like to know every year how 0:18:23.600 --> 0:18:26.359 many times the police go to a school over a 0:18:26.400 --> 0:18:29.120 false report of a shooting? Right? How many times are 0:18:29.160 --> 0:18:31.440 classrooms being cleared? How many times are the cops showing 0:18:31.520 --> 0:18:35.159 up for this? Um? Because that's important information and and 0:18:35.200 --> 0:18:38.480 that also should taylor the way the police are being 0:18:38.480 --> 0:18:41.440 trained for this and the ways like the there's a 0:18:41.520 --> 0:18:44.720 number of things that you should be doing. If you know, hey, 0:18:44.800 --> 0:18:47.000 we had no mass shootings this year, but the cops 0:18:47.000 --> 0:18:49.879 showed up with guns drawn forty five times, right, that 0:18:50.160 --> 0:18:52.439 that should inform the way you do things in the 0:18:52.480 --> 0:18:55.160 future in order to minimize the trauma these kids go through. 0:18:55.240 --> 0:18:57.760 That's one thing that is an immediate thing people can 0:18:57.800 --> 0:19:00.080 take and that you can do. People can add the 0:19:00.160 --> 0:19:02.800 cat for locally. But it's I mean, it's a tough 0:19:02.880 --> 0:19:04.880 line here, right because you know, I think every district 0:19:04.920 --> 0:19:06.800 is really eager not to be the next Ubal Day 0:19:06.840 --> 0:19:09.520 police of course, so showing up hot and heavy, they're 0:19:09.520 --> 0:19:12.440 going right in there, you knocking down doors and pointing 0:19:12.440 --> 0:19:14.440 guns and kids. You know that the video that came 0:19:14.440 --> 0:19:18.280 out from that classroom in Houston, they frisked several children 0:19:18.320 --> 0:19:20.680 at gunpoint. I'm not sure why that they were sitting 0:19:20.680 --> 0:19:22.840 at their desks, they were obviously not committing a mass shooting. 0:19:23.240 --> 0:19:25.760 Or in Denver on Monday, they evacuated the whole school 0:19:25.760 --> 0:19:27.520 onto the football field with their hands in the air, 0:19:27.600 --> 0:19:31.120 like was not necessarily horror, right, and you know, even 0:19:31.400 --> 0:19:34.280 even as a police abolitionist and recognize that in the 0:19:34.320 --> 0:19:37.840 system in which we currently live, there is no response 0:19:37.920 --> 0:19:40.120 to a school shooting that does not involve the police. 0:19:40.320 --> 0:19:43.640 That's right where we are. But are they Are they 0:19:43.640 --> 0:19:46.399 doing this smart? Yeah? As a as a rule, I 0:19:46.440 --> 0:19:49.359 think everyone can agree that, given the current realities of 0:19:49.359 --> 0:19:51.240 the world we live in, if a guy is shooting 0:19:51.320 --> 0:19:55.840 up a school or a lady, um, it's good for 0:19:55.920 --> 0:19:58.240 people with guns to come and stop them, and that 0:19:58.480 --> 0:20:01.800 that's realistically going to be the police in our current system. 0:20:01.840 --> 0:20:03.720 But that doesn't mean we can't be like, well, okay, 0:20:03.760 --> 0:20:07.440 they came up fifty times falsely and traumatized all these 0:20:07.520 --> 0:20:10.080 kids by pointing guns at them on the fucking football field. 0:20:10.440 --> 0:20:12.879 We should change the way in which they're responding to 0:20:12.920 --> 0:20:16.760 these like that should be the default. These are things 0:20:16.760 --> 0:20:19.240 people can lobby for at a local level that will 0:20:19.280 --> 0:20:21.280 have an impact on at least the quality of life 0:20:21.280 --> 0:20:24.480 for kids in the schools and for parents you know, 0:20:24.600 --> 0:20:26.800 like you know you all day there was the parent 0:20:26.840 --> 0:20:28.680 who you know slipped around the police line and got 0:20:28.680 --> 0:20:32.120 into the school and got her kid yesterday, no, two days, 0:20:32.160 --> 0:20:35.000 two days ago, in San Antonio, they had a you know, 0:20:35.040 --> 0:20:38.560 a hoax call. Somebody called in swatch showed up, uh, 0:20:38.600 --> 0:20:41.520 and parents showed up because they got the emergency alert text. 0:20:41.520 --> 0:20:44.920 So the parking lot fills with parents. A father punched 0:20:44.960 --> 0:20:48.320 through a window, cut his arm up, and was hand looked, tackled, 0:20:48.320 --> 0:20:50.240 and handcuffed by the police because I just wanted this 0:20:50.320 --> 0:20:53.399 fucking kid. Of course this is going to keep playing 0:20:53.400 --> 0:20:55.639 out or here on Tuesday at the middle school, you know, 0:20:55.680 --> 0:20:57.199 I was listening to my scanner. After the you know, 0:20:57.200 --> 0:20:59.560 the cleared buildings, the police left, and then a call 0:20:59.640 --> 0:21:01.639 came over the scanner and said, the school's requesting that 0:21:01.680 --> 0:21:05.960 the police come back to handle the parents because parents 0:21:06.080 --> 0:21:08.720 are angry. Of course they are. So how do we 0:21:08.760 --> 0:21:13.000 how do we navigate this tension of yes, we need 0:21:13.080 --> 0:21:16.280 police to respond if there is a school shooting, But 0:21:16.359 --> 0:21:19.359 how do we as community communities navigate this space where 0:21:19.920 --> 0:21:21.879 we also don't want them to point guns at our kids. 0:21:23.760 --> 0:21:25.440 We don't we don't have a lot of trust and 0:21:25.520 --> 0:21:27.520 communication with our police department. So I don't know if 0:21:27.520 --> 0:21:30.439 that's a space we can navigate. This is a problem 0:21:30.440 --> 0:21:32.880 that has to be adapted to. Right there is the potential. 0:21:32.960 --> 0:21:35.000 You have this problem, right, which is that it is 0:21:35.040 --> 0:21:38.560 apparently easy to weaponize the reporting system for mass shootings. 0:21:38.800 --> 0:21:41.160 The problem that's compounded by the fact that you can't 0:21:41.160 --> 0:21:43.720 ignore the risk of a mass shooting because kids can die, 0:21:43.800 --> 0:21:46.440 people will get killed if you are wrong about that. 0:21:46.800 --> 0:21:49.399 At the same time, it is unreasonable to say that 0:21:49.480 --> 0:21:51.879 every single time one of these reports happens, if the 0:21:51.960 --> 0:21:55.200 ratio is hundreds of false reports to one actual shooting, 0:21:55.480 --> 0:21:58.120 every time it happens, you go and you stick guns 0:21:58.119 --> 0:21:59.520 in the face of a bunch of kids, and you 0:21:59.560 --> 0:22:01.760 trauma to as all these parents who wind up going 0:22:01.840 --> 0:22:04.520 crazy for understandable reasons. There are a way, there are 0:22:04.520 --> 0:22:07.760 structures that can be built into the system to mitigate 0:22:07.920 --> 0:22:11.080 those harms at least, and I think that is, you know, 0:22:11.240 --> 0:22:13.320 from the perspective of who is doing this and how 0:22:13.359 --> 0:22:15.200 can they be stopped? That is a question that will 0:22:15.200 --> 0:22:19.640 be answered either by law enforcement or by independent researchers. 0:22:19.720 --> 0:22:22.159 But but that's that's a research problem, right, That's a 0:22:22.240 --> 0:22:24.960 cracking case problem. My fear is that the response to 0:22:25.040 --> 0:22:28.680 this will be um putting more cops in schools. Right, 0:22:28.760 --> 0:22:31.720 it's you know, the company school doesn't stop the school shooting. 0:22:31.720 --> 0:22:34.960 We know that from you know, empirical evidence, or maybe 0:22:35.040 --> 0:22:37.359 in several of these cases, you know the news story says, 0:22:37.520 --> 0:22:40.800 you know, dispatch contact of the school resource officers who said, no, 0:22:40.880 --> 0:22:42.879 I don't see anything. So is the solution going to 0:22:42.880 --> 0:22:45.560 be put a guy in there who can look Yeah, 0:22:45.600 --> 0:22:49.520 and he's not gonna do anything, but he's gonna Charlottsville, 0:22:49.680 --> 0:22:52.640 the city of Charlesville took ours, took school resource officers 0:22:52.640 --> 0:22:55.640 out of schools last year, two years ago. Time scaped now. 0:22:56.280 --> 0:22:59.840 So my my fear is that even people who a 0:23:00.000 --> 0:23:03.240 plauded that decision will at this point say, maybe we 0:23:03.240 --> 0:23:05.119 should put them back. Maybe we need a guy in 0:23:05.160 --> 0:23:08.240 there with a direct line to dispatch. Yeah, and I 0:23:08.680 --> 0:23:10.680 and maybe we do. I don't don't think they need 0:23:10.720 --> 0:23:12.080 to have It needs to be a man with a 0:23:12.160 --> 0:23:14.920 gun who has the ability to arrest children, right having 0:23:15.080 --> 0:23:17.800 having a first responder on scene at every school who 0:23:17.840 --> 0:23:20.320 can be the yes, there actually is a shooting or 0:23:20.320 --> 0:23:23.400 no there's not. Maybe a se medical training is perhaps 0:23:23.400 --> 0:23:26.000 a different thing that could happen, rather than let's put 0:23:26.040 --> 0:23:28.760 more armed men in schools. Right like that. That's not 0:23:28.800 --> 0:23:32.360 an inherently unreasonable proposition, but I don't know. I don't 0:23:32.359 --> 0:23:34.080 know that police are going to be receptive to the 0:23:34.119 --> 0:23:37.000 idea of let's ask some questions first, right, because as 0:23:37.040 --> 0:23:38.640 I was listening to the scanner again, you know, I 0:23:38.680 --> 0:23:41.800 have the most information about the two incidents is that 0:23:41.840 --> 0:23:43.920 were in my neighborhood. Um, I was listening to the 0:23:43.960 --> 0:23:46.600 scanner on Tuesday, and it takes time for cops to 0:23:46.680 --> 0:23:48.639 arrive at a scene, even in a relatively small town. 0:23:49.640 --> 0:23:52.720 By the time they had dispatched this response to the scene, 0:23:52.800 --> 0:23:55.040 they had already spoken to the principle over the phone. 0:23:55.320 --> 0:23:59.000 They already knew this was not true. We'll see. And 0:23:59.040 --> 0:24:02.560 there's another solve problem because if you're if you're having 0:24:02.560 --> 0:24:05.440 guys with guns still show up because it's policy. When 0:24:05.480 --> 0:24:07.800 someone at the school has said no, there's not a shooting, 0:24:08.440 --> 0:24:10.960 well that's again, that is a problem that can be 0:24:11.040 --> 0:24:14.760 altered or that can be fixed to mitigate harm. That 0:24:14.840 --> 0:24:17.560 seems pretty simple, which is be like, well, maybe if 0:24:17.560 --> 0:24:20.320 somebody at this, maybe if the school's principle says no, 0:24:20.440 --> 0:24:23.040 nothing is happening here, you don't send the gun guys. 0:24:23.240 --> 0:24:25.119 Maybe you still send a squad car to check it 0:24:25.200 --> 0:24:28.080 out for die hard purposes. I'm sure, we all remember 0:24:28.520 --> 0:24:30.760 what that movie has to say about these kinds of problems. 0:24:30.840 --> 0:24:36.639 But um, you know, I I there's a lot that 0:24:36.680 --> 0:24:39.240 can be done with the information that this is a problem, 0:24:39.280 --> 0:24:43.440 And to a certain extent, I think I'm hopeful that 0:24:44.400 --> 0:24:46.960 once this kind of blows up, and I'm certain this well, 0:24:47.000 --> 0:24:49.080 I'm certain that maybe even by the time this launches, 0:24:49.119 --> 0:24:51.760 there will be some big national stories about this, because 0:24:51.800 --> 0:24:54.800 this is this is a really substantial problem. Very obviously 0:24:55.080 --> 0:24:59.320 is a substantial problem. Um. I hope that one of 0:24:59.359 --> 0:25:03.640 the things that does is perhaps lead to the authorities 0:25:03.680 --> 0:25:07.280 taking swatting and threats of swatting and communities that engage 0:25:07.320 --> 0:25:09.879 in swatting much more seriously, because by god, they have 0:25:10.000 --> 0:25:13.439 not so far, and it's not the laws about it 0:25:13.480 --> 0:25:16.199 are not super consistent state to state that you know, 0:25:16.280 --> 0:25:18.240 there has been some attempts on the federal level to 0:25:18.320 --> 0:25:21.560 make you know, blanket legislation about this specific because you know, 0:25:21.600 --> 0:25:23.399 it's it's illegal to make a false report to the police, 0:25:23.400 --> 0:25:24.919 it's illegal to make you know, a false nine one 0:25:24.960 --> 0:25:29.040 one call, but to specifically and intentionally weaponize an armed 0:25:29.080 --> 0:25:32.199 police response because you hope it will hurt someone. In 0:25:32.280 --> 0:25:36.080 most states, isn't its own crime, right, Like, and I 0:25:36.119 --> 0:25:38.840 think in California they have specific legislation that, like you 0:25:38.880 --> 0:25:42.320 can be charred, like financially responsible for whatever it costs 0:25:42.320 --> 0:25:46.880 to have that response. But like, there's not uniform agreement 0:25:47.000 --> 0:25:49.840 that this is a separate crime. This is a separate 0:25:49.840 --> 0:25:52.239 harm that should be punished in a specific way. And 0:25:52.280 --> 0:25:53.960 maybe maybe we'll get that out of this. I don't 0:25:53.960 --> 0:25:57.000 know that that solves it, but again it will Like 0:25:57.040 --> 0:25:59.119 you were saying that this is a lower barrier to 0:25:59.320 --> 0:26:02.280 entry cry, but if you up the punishment, maybe the 0:26:02.359 --> 0:26:07.159 threshold to decide to do it goes up. Yeah. Yeah, Again, 0:26:07.240 --> 0:26:10.680 I think there's there's a variety of things that can 0:26:10.720 --> 0:26:12.800 be done now that we know this is a problem. 0:26:12.800 --> 0:26:14.199 And one of the reasons why I think this is 0:26:14.200 --> 0:26:15.879 important for us to cover on a show like this 0:26:16.000 --> 0:26:17.959 is a lot of these are problems that can at 0:26:18.000 --> 0:26:20.480 least be mitigated at the local level. Right, You do 0:26:20.640 --> 0:26:23.919 have power if you're involving yourself in local politics to 0:26:24.000 --> 0:26:26.119 do things like advocate for a system in which you 0:26:26.160 --> 0:26:28.240 track how often this is happening, to do things like 0:26:28.320 --> 0:26:31.760 advocate for changes in how the school handles this sort 0:26:31.760 --> 0:26:33.880 of thing like that is a thing that you that 0:26:33.960 --> 0:26:38.320 people can handle locally, um, and that is you'll get 0:26:38.320 --> 0:26:41.000 a faster response handling it locally as well than you 0:26:41.000 --> 0:26:43.359 will trying to advocate for some sort of big national 0:26:43.440 --> 0:26:46.360 swatting law and you're gonna get You're going to get 0:26:46.560 --> 0:26:50.879 faster and better results changing local departmental policy than you 0:26:50.960 --> 0:26:53.480 will getting any law that changes how the police be 0:26:54.520 --> 0:26:58.760 highly unlikely. Yeah, and so I I think this is important. 0:26:58.800 --> 0:27:00.479 I think it's important for people to win gauge with 0:27:00.520 --> 0:27:03.600 this from the perspective of, like, we don't know why 0:27:03.680 --> 0:27:05.719 this is happening or who is doing it yet, and 0:27:05.760 --> 0:27:07.920 it maybe a while before I'm certain we will find 0:27:07.960 --> 0:27:11.080 out at some point these people will get caught, but um, 0:27:11.119 --> 0:27:14.440 it almost doesn't matter because the system is so easy 0:27:14.480 --> 0:27:19.000 to weaponize. The solution is to try to find ways 0:27:19.080 --> 0:27:24.000 to make it less harmful without reducing the ability of 0:27:24.160 --> 0:27:26.560 people with guns to show up if they need to 0:27:26.560 --> 0:27:29.359 to stop someone who's murdering kids. Right, those are the 0:27:29.400 --> 0:27:31.760 two things that need to be done, not reduced the 0:27:31.800 --> 0:27:34.320 efficacy of the system, which is not very good to 0:27:34.359 --> 0:27:37.520 be honest at stopping mass shootings. And and it's pissport 0:27:37.560 --> 0:27:39.320 at that. So it would be hard to make it worse. 0:27:39.359 --> 0:27:41.679 I will say when people talk about, well, what happens 0:27:41.680 --> 0:27:43.919 if they well, they're bad at it now. They're terrible 0:27:43.960 --> 0:27:46.959 at it now. So it's not like I'm not worried 0:27:47.000 --> 0:27:51.800 about making a change to like mitigate the response of swattings, 0:27:51.800 --> 0:27:55.240 in this instance, harming kids, because as it is, the 0:27:55.280 --> 0:27:58.280 system almost never saves them when there is an actual 0:27:58.320 --> 0:28:01.879 mass shooting. So simple reducing the amount of time that 0:28:02.000 --> 0:28:06.520 kids have cops pull guns on them and these false reports, Um, 0:28:06.600 --> 0:28:11.600 that's more of a priority to me than anything else. Um. Yeah, 0:28:11.840 --> 0:28:13.800 when when we're talking about the issue of swatting, and 0:28:14.119 --> 0:28:16.199 I think there again, there's just there's things that can 0:28:16.240 --> 0:28:18.480 be done there Molly, is there anything else you wanted 0:28:18.480 --> 0:28:22.000 to get to on this on this subject? No, I 0:28:22.000 --> 0:28:24.719 think that covers it. I just this is still happening. 0:28:24.720 --> 0:28:28.040 It's happening today like it's it is still ongoing. This 0:28:28.080 --> 0:28:30.320 phenomenon is ongoing, and I think it will continue to 0:28:30.359 --> 0:28:32.400 build until it hits a breaking point. Like you said, 0:28:32.400 --> 0:28:35.040 I definitely think some of these people will be caught, 0:28:36.640 --> 0:28:38.280 but I don't know what that changes, right, Like, once 0:28:38.280 --> 0:28:40.480 this breaks containment, once people see that this is a 0:28:40.520 --> 0:28:44.680 thing that they could do. Yeah, yeah, do we do 0:28:44.800 --> 0:28:47.280 we deal with a wave of this before it gets 0:28:47.360 --> 0:28:50.720 under control that gets even bigger or is that what's 0:28:50.760 --> 0:28:54.040 actually happening right now? I don't know. And does this 0:28:54.120 --> 0:28:56.360 when does this, I don't know, desensitize people to the 0:28:56.440 --> 0:28:59.720 idea of these threats. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. 0:29:00.320 --> 0:29:03.960 But no kids get shot. I hope no kids get shot. 0:29:04.720 --> 0:29:10.240 If you're a journalist and you're trying to you are 0:29:10.280 --> 0:29:14.800 trying to report on this in some sort of concerted way. Uh, 0:29:15.040 --> 0:29:17.760 you can find Molly on Twitter a socialist stuck mom, 0:29:18.040 --> 0:29:21.320 she's done, she's reading most of your article for you. 0:29:21.320 --> 0:29:25.240 You can stee like. But I think there are journalists 0:29:25.240 --> 0:29:27.440 listening to this. I think it's important to tell them 0:29:27.760 --> 0:29:31.200 ask the right questions right, like when you're you know, 0:29:31.200 --> 0:29:33.200 when you're getting your three questions into the press conference 0:29:33.200 --> 0:29:37.120 with the local shriff's office, ask specifically, where did the 0:29:37.200 --> 0:29:40.800 call come in? What number was dialed by the caller? Right? 0:29:42.000 --> 0:29:43.720 Because I don't think these are nine one one calls. 0:29:43.720 --> 0:29:45.280 I think people are using nine when one in shorthand, 0:29:45.320 --> 0:29:47.840 So asked where the call came from, the substance of 0:29:47.840 --> 0:29:50.920 the call because I think I imagine that some of 0:29:50.960 --> 0:29:53.440 these calls are verbatim and we just don't know that. 0:29:53.480 --> 0:29:55.360 I think some of them are probably identical, and we 0:29:55.400 --> 0:29:57.480 just don't have any way of It's hard to connect 0:29:57.480 --> 0:30:00.280 the dots when the police won't tell us. So I 0:30:00.280 --> 0:30:03.280 think if you know, if journalists are listening, ask more 0:30:03.400 --> 0:30:06.760 questions than you got in the press release, that's critical 0:30:06.800 --> 0:30:08.479 because if there were if there was a if there 0:30:08.520 --> 0:30:11.920 was a Virginia State like repository where every time we 0:30:11.960 --> 0:30:15.000 get a false swatting attempt against the school, we report 0:30:15.400 --> 0:30:18.840 when it came in, who was called, and what was 0:30:18.880 --> 0:30:21.560 said over the call, right, Um, all of which are 0:30:21.560 --> 0:30:23.600 things that they could pretty easily get because this ship 0:30:23.720 --> 0:30:27.040 is always recorded. Um. I don't know that that's true, though, 0:30:27.080 --> 0:30:30.640 and that's that's another sort of tactical nine one one calls. 0:30:31.520 --> 0:30:33.360 But if you call the front desk at the police station, 0:30:33.400 --> 0:30:36.560 it probably isn't. That is a fucking good point, um. 0:30:36.600 --> 0:30:38.520 In any case, that is another thing that could be 0:30:38.560 --> 0:30:40.120 dealt with, because then you would at least be able 0:30:40.120 --> 0:30:42.680 to see, Oh, there's forty swatting attempts in the state 0:30:42.800 --> 0:30:46.160 in the last five days, and thirty eight of them. 0:30:46.200 --> 0:30:48.760 It was the exact same script. There's probably a single 0:30:48.800 --> 0:30:51.920 source of this that we should be like looking at, um, 0:30:51.960 --> 0:30:55.040 and that can help not just law enforcement who's generally 0:30:55.080 --> 0:30:57.880 bad at these sort of investigations, but people like you 0:30:58.240 --> 0:31:00.479 who are good at these sort of investigation aations and 0:31:00.480 --> 0:31:03.440 can maybe then start doing keyword searches and figure out 0:31:03.480 --> 0:31:05.479 where the funk this stuff is originating from, if it's 0:31:05.480 --> 0:31:10.040 anywhere on the semi open internet. Um. Again, things, there's 0:31:10.080 --> 0:31:12.840 a lot to be done to respond to this problem 0:31:13.000 --> 0:31:16.440 that that doesn't start with like throwing more cops at 0:31:16.480 --> 0:31:19.240 it or or or whatever. Like. There's there's a number 0:31:19.240 --> 0:31:23.000 of different problems that this is revealed, um, so hopefully 0:31:23.120 --> 0:31:28.360 those get solved anyway, Molly, you got anything else to 0:31:28.400 --> 0:31:33.480 plug before we go? Oh, defund your local police department, 0:31:33.880 --> 0:31:39.360 subscribe your local newspaper. Sure, um, and uh yeah, if 0:31:39.920 --> 0:31:44.680 if you're at a school right now, good good luck 0:31:43.920 --> 0:31:48.960 those kids. Yeah, they are really the kids these days 0:31:49.000 --> 0:31:52.120 are dealing with a lot. Um. I'm I'm I'm more 0:31:52.160 --> 0:31:55.200 grateful every year that my my childhood was as uneventful 0:31:55.240 --> 0:31:57.880 as it was, because boy, howdy, is it rough to 0:31:57.880 --> 0:32:00.959 be a student today. And they still have to take 0:32:01.000 --> 0:32:05.600 their tests and tests. Yeah, they have to go to school. 0:32:05.640 --> 0:32:07.760 They got to read The Great Gatsby while this is 0:32:07.800 --> 0:32:29.240 going on. Unbelievable. Um, sorry kids, it's it's it's it 0:32:29.280 --> 0:32:33.720 could happen here. The podcast that we open sometimes, yes, 0:32:33.840 --> 0:32:35.360 this is, this is this is, this is how we 0:32:35.400 --> 0:32:38.400 do this job. Um it is. It is also a 0:32:38.400 --> 0:32:43.360 podcast that is very very often about strikes, and someone's 0:32:43.360 --> 0:32:46.000 presently this is this is an episode that is not 0:32:46.080 --> 0:32:48.360 about the Giant rail strike that everyone was focused on 0:32:48.400 --> 0:32:51.920 that didn't happen. Um. And the reason it's not about Okay, 0:32:51.920 --> 0:32:53.760 I mean, obviously it's not about that because it didn't happen. 0:32:53.800 --> 0:32:55.560 But the other reason it's not about that is that 0:32:55.600 --> 0:32:59.560 there was another giant strike that was really I think 0:32:59.600 --> 0:33:03.400 ignored by both sort of the media and the people 0:33:03.440 --> 0:33:06.240 who normally would be following strikes that was happening at 0:33:06.160 --> 0:33:08.600 about the same time. And that is a massive fift 0:33:09.120 --> 0:33:14.760 person nurses strike up up up in Wisconsin. And to 0:33:14.840 --> 0:33:20.120 talk with us about that, Wait, did I say that Minnesota? 0:33:20.200 --> 0:33:22.960 Did I? Did I confuse Wisconsin and Minnesota? Oh my god, 0:33:23.360 --> 0:33:27.920 I'd always do this. They did treat a strike, you are, yeah, 0:33:31.040 --> 0:33:33.640 I don't. There's some part of my brain that never 0:33:33.800 --> 0:33:36.560 quite like figured out which one was Wisconsin which one 0:33:36.600 --> 0:33:39.000 was Minnesota, and it just like flips them in my mind. 0:33:39.040 --> 0:33:40.680 They're just like they're just the state that's sort of 0:33:40.760 --> 0:33:48.680 over there from Illinois, which I don't I don't really 0:33:48.720 --> 0:33:51.560 have an excuse because like I'm from here, like i've 0:33:51.800 --> 0:33:54.720 I've I've lived not in the Midwest for like six 0:33:54.800 --> 0:33:57.160 months now. Wow, okay, like a year of my life 0:33:57.200 --> 0:34:01.280 when I was like unbelievably small child. Ye, but yeah, 0:34:01.280 --> 0:34:03.560 it is. It is. Yeah, there's been only strikes in Minnesota. 0:34:03.720 --> 0:34:05.920 And with me to talk about the strikes that are 0:34:05.920 --> 0:34:09.200 not happening in Wisconsin is Danielle, who is a nurse 0:34:09.280 --> 0:34:13.360 at Methodist Hospital and a steward for the Minnesota Nurses Association. Danielle, 0:34:13.360 --> 0:34:18.080 Welcome to the show. Thank you, thank you for having me. Yeah, 0:34:18.160 --> 0:34:22.319 thank you, thank you for coming on. Um. Okay, so 0:34:22.360 --> 0:34:26.160 I guess the first thing that I wanted to talk 0:34:26.239 --> 0:34:30.040 about is the kind of strike that you all were doing, 0:34:30.080 --> 0:34:33.400 because this is something that I've seen a lot with 0:34:33.480 --> 0:34:36.600 nurses strikes, but I don't think people who aren't in 0:34:36.719 --> 0:34:40.160 nurses unions like talking about very much, which is basically 0:34:40.160 --> 0:34:42.160 doing a three day strike or doing a strike that's 0:34:42.280 --> 0:34:44.040 for for for a set number of days, but it's 0:34:44.080 --> 0:34:47.960 not indefinite. UM. And I wanted to ask about that 0:34:48.080 --> 0:34:54.080 specifically as a tactic a bit. Yeah. Absolutely, UM, it's 0:34:54.200 --> 0:34:57.040 not uncommon in the healthcare sector at all to do 0:34:57.239 --> 0:35:01.560 one day, two day, three day, five day, seven day strikes. UM. 0:35:01.640 --> 0:35:04.359 We usually leave like an open ended strike for kind 0:35:04.360 --> 0:35:10.400 of a lasted effort um to get the employer's attention. UM. 0:35:10.480 --> 0:35:15.040 So there's a lot to coordinate to compensate for a 0:35:15.080 --> 0:35:19.759 three day strike. UM. It affects everyone's job at the 0:35:19.840 --> 0:35:23.400 hospital and then after three days they have to flip 0:35:23.520 --> 0:35:32.120 everything back. UM. That UM, that type of disruption in 0:35:32.239 --> 0:35:37.480 capital is UM has been really effective um across the nation. 0:35:38.680 --> 0:35:43.560 So we're hoping that they hear us loud and proud, 0:35:43.600 --> 0:35:47.439 but it's challenging. They have a lot of money. Yeah. Yeah, 0:35:47.440 --> 0:35:49.680 And I think from from what I've talked to other 0:35:49.760 --> 0:35:54.000 nurses about this strike and also other people have done 0:35:54.080 --> 0:35:56.479 nurses strikes, is that like there's like a huge pool 0:35:56.480 --> 0:36:01.839 of scabs, which makes me really hard And is it 0:36:01.920 --> 0:36:03.759 is it the case that part of the reason why 0:36:03.760 --> 0:36:05.359 you do one of these limited strikes is that it's 0:36:05.520 --> 0:36:08.960 it's a lot harder for them to coordinate, like bringing 0:36:09.000 --> 0:36:10.719 in scas for limited amount of time that it would 0:36:10.760 --> 0:36:18.440 be for like hiring them full time for an indefinite strike. Yeah, exactly, 0:36:18.520 --> 0:36:22.920 so travel nurses, I mean they are those strike nurses 0:36:22.920 --> 0:36:25.120 come in strictly just for those three days. They are 0:36:25.160 --> 0:36:28.840 oriented for you know, a few hours prior to starting 0:36:29.560 --> 0:36:34.799 at seven am on Monday. UM, so there's not a 0:36:34.800 --> 0:36:37.200 lot of time to learn the entire facility. And since 0:36:37.280 --> 0:36:41.040 we are gone, the only ones left to orientate our 0:36:41.239 --> 0:36:47.680 managers or any nurses that have to stay for whatever reason. 0:36:47.960 --> 0:36:52.960 We really didn't have money at all across the line. UM. 0:36:53.000 --> 0:36:59.120 So it just compromises UM patient safety and care in general. Yeah. Yeah, 0:36:59.160 --> 0:37:02.719 there's no way to create teamwork with just three days 0:37:02.760 --> 0:37:10.279 of your nurses. UM. So just um the hospital is 0:37:10.280 --> 0:37:14.360 just more accountable for system airs. Um. They try to 0:37:14.440 --> 0:37:18.840 keep those issues as internal as possible and not disclose 0:37:18.880 --> 0:37:22.360 them to the public. But there's a lot that happened, 0:37:22.760 --> 0:37:25.319 you know. They it's funny all the media reports are 0:37:25.719 --> 0:37:28.320 like or we're just like straight up printing press releases 0:37:28.360 --> 0:37:30.399 being like there's been no internal disruptions. Stomach, I don't 0:37:30.440 --> 0:37:34.279 believe that, Like there's no way, there's like it's just 0:37:34.320 --> 0:37:39.200 not true. They are just lying, so lying, and to 0:37:39.320 --> 0:37:41.839 prepare for us to go and strike. I mean, they 0:37:41.920 --> 0:37:45.719 try their hardest to discharge as many patients as possible 0:37:46.040 --> 0:37:49.319 Sunday prior to our strike, to empty out hospitals. The 0:37:49.360 --> 0:37:52.200 thing is like, you can't just you're not a magician. 0:37:52.239 --> 0:37:55.920 You can't make sick people go away. Um. There was 0:37:55.960 --> 0:37:59.399 a lot of readmissions because of that. You're discharging people 0:37:59.440 --> 0:38:02.920 too quickly. Um. I know what the children's hospitals they 0:38:02.960 --> 0:38:08.839 actually um like shuttled forty four children out to other 0:38:09.040 --> 0:38:15.360 surrounding hospitals two because they couldn't get enough travelers to work. 0:38:15.920 --> 0:38:20.560 You can't get fifteen thousands travelers. So that's what they 0:38:20.560 --> 0:38:23.080 did to try to undermine us. It's a lot of 0:38:23.120 --> 0:38:27.600 moving things around, and I am hoping the public there's 0:38:27.640 --> 0:38:30.480 an uproar with the public about this. That's I don't 0:38:30.480 --> 0:38:33.920 know who's paying for you know, the cost of shipping 0:38:34.000 --> 0:38:38.239 kids to different hospitals. Yeah, I assume the hospital is 0:38:38.280 --> 0:38:42.640 not going to pay for it. Yeah, God, So yeah, 0:38:42.680 --> 0:38:47.080 I guess we should move into like how we got 0:38:47.120 --> 0:38:49.680 to the point where fifteen thousand nurses or went on strike, 0:38:49.719 --> 0:38:52.120 which I think, I mean, certainly the largest nurses strike 0:38:52.239 --> 0:38:54.280 like in the in the private stactor I can remember, 0:38:54.640 --> 0:38:55.960 Like it's I think I think it's one of the 0:38:56.040 --> 0:39:00.759 largest the US ever had. Yeah, yeah it is. Yeah. 0:39:00.880 --> 0:39:04.319 Can we talk about like I get and this this 0:39:04.440 --> 0:39:06.520 is there's also sort of a broader question here about 0:39:06.560 --> 0:39:10.080 like what the US healthcare system looks like in here 0:39:10.120 --> 0:39:12.400 two of this plague in the sector that's already been 0:39:12.440 --> 0:39:19.400 sort of just decimated by like incredibly veno profit seeking, 0:39:19.480 --> 0:39:24.440 greedy corporations. Yeah yeah, so what what what? What? What 0:39:24.440 --> 0:39:26.279 would have been the conditions that have been leading up 0:39:26.320 --> 0:39:29.480 to this strike that got this many people off of 0:39:29.640 --> 0:39:34.839 the line. Um, I mean our health care system has 0:39:34.880 --> 0:39:38.719 been unstable, um for quite some time. Hospitals have been 0:39:38.760 --> 0:39:43.799 consolidating so much, like closing clinics and facilities, um, just 0:39:43.840 --> 0:39:48.080 to maximize profit. It's um like there their whole goal 0:39:48.160 --> 0:39:52.319 is kind of like how airlines overbooked for flights, they 0:39:52.400 --> 0:39:55.719 create like an artificial hospital that's shortage in order to 0:39:56.040 --> 0:39:59.719 maximize profit. So they've been doing that for a year 0:40:00.280 --> 0:40:03.160 and then also just buying up little hospitals to control 0:40:03.200 --> 0:40:08.040 the market more. Um, They've also are starting their own 0:40:08.040 --> 0:40:12.759 insurance companies just to double dip into communities wallets. So 0:40:14.080 --> 0:40:17.960 that's been going on prior to the pandemic. Pandemic hit, 0:40:18.280 --> 0:40:21.719 they were not ready. They didn't have enough PPE at all, 0:40:21.800 --> 0:40:29.920 because it's not there's no UM, it's not financially incentivized 0:40:29.920 --> 0:40:34.680 to have extra pp on and that's their logic. I 0:40:34.920 --> 0:40:37.120 remember in the beginning of the pandemic, like my aunt 0:40:37.200 --> 0:40:39.520 and uncle work for hospital, and like we were trying 0:40:39.560 --> 0:40:42.759 to get the masks and like we wound up like 0:40:42.960 --> 0:40:46.279 we were like doing contracts with like like my like 0:40:46.520 --> 0:40:49.000 literally my family in China was like I know a 0:40:49.080 --> 0:40:52.120 guy who knows a guy who could like who who 0:40:52.280 --> 0:40:55.280 like has a mass manufacturing thing. It was o god, 0:40:55.920 --> 0:41:00.560 it was so grim. It was Yeah, it was a mess, 0:41:00.600 --> 0:41:04.680 and we didn't have enough PPU. We had to reuse 0:41:04.680 --> 0:41:08.840 stuff instantly UM. And we were never compensated for it 0:41:09.080 --> 0:41:11.640 either UM. We just were forced to work harder and 0:41:11.719 --> 0:41:17.120 longer UM for the same pay. And now hospitals are 0:41:17.160 --> 0:41:21.720 trying to normalize that staffing UM shortage and say, well 0:41:21.960 --> 0:41:25.520 that's it, that's you know, so you just have to 0:41:26.440 --> 0:41:30.600 work with what we're giving you. Um in this shortage 0:41:30.680 --> 0:41:36.520 is just it's causing unnecessary medical errors and deaths, and 0:41:37.560 --> 0:41:40.680 it's just a disservice to our community. Yeah, it's going 0:41:40.760 --> 0:41:44.279 kind of down a dark path. So I think all 0:41:44.320 --> 0:41:49.080 of that During the pandemic, hospitals really showed their true colors. 0:41:49.160 --> 0:41:53.200 And I know the nurses really realized that the hospital 0:41:53.239 --> 0:41:56.920 is only there too, just like fat in their wallets. 0:41:57.280 --> 0:42:00.719 They're not there for us, They're not The goal is 0:42:00.800 --> 0:42:04.640 to make us all leave the bedside and just outsource 0:42:04.719 --> 0:42:08.439 all of their employees. You would escape all liabilities if 0:42:08.480 --> 0:42:13.200 you have all travelers in place, there's um, there's no 0:42:13.239 --> 0:42:17.520 real incentive to hold the hospital accountable for institutional failures. 0:42:18.000 --> 0:42:20.759 Can you explain what travelers are for the audience people 0:42:20.760 --> 0:42:26.279 who may not know? Oh? Yeah, absolutely. UM. So travel 0:42:26.440 --> 0:42:31.840 nurses come across her like across the entire um nation, 0:42:32.080 --> 0:42:40.480 and they are contracted through travel companies that work with hospitals. UM. 0:42:40.560 --> 0:42:45.200 So if there's a nursing shortage, UM, there will be 0:42:45.239 --> 0:42:48.839 open positions to apply for those contract positions that are 0:42:49.360 --> 0:42:52.799 like short terms, so either like a four week six week, 0:42:52.960 --> 0:42:55.680 or if it's like a strike, contract would be like 0:42:55.760 --> 0:42:59.840 three days, seven days, whatever. It might be UM, and 0:43:00.239 --> 0:43:04.680 they're paid handsomely. I know for our three days strike, 0:43:05.000 --> 0:43:08.759 those travel nurses, those strike nurses specifically for three days, 0:43:08.840 --> 0:43:14.839 they ten k each for three days, and they didn't 0:43:14.840 --> 0:43:18.680 even know the facility. Some of them never even worked 0:43:18.680 --> 0:43:24.719 in a hospital. I don't I don't understand the requirements. Um. 0:43:24.760 --> 0:43:30.120 It's confusing. How Yeah, And I'm not trying to demonize 0:43:30.160 --> 0:43:33.360 travel nurses in any sort of way. There's amazing travel nurses. 0:43:33.400 --> 0:43:37.239 I've worked with some. They're great people, but they're UM. 0:43:37.280 --> 0:43:42.279 It just undermines um, like our profession. Like it's it's 0:43:42.320 --> 0:43:45.080 hard to improve our profession when you have people that 0:43:45.400 --> 0:43:49.640 can replace you. Um, there's no real change we can make. 0:43:49.680 --> 0:43:52.719 It's just we're fighting each other. And travel nurses are 0:43:52.760 --> 0:43:59.440 independent contractors. Yeah, exactly, So the hospital doesn't pay them benefits. Um, 0:43:59.480 --> 0:44:05.200 they don't vacation, they don't call in six Um. They 0:44:05.200 --> 0:44:08.400 save the employer a lot of money. UM because they 0:44:08.400 --> 0:44:12.239 don't have to like provide any hospital resources such as 0:44:12.239 --> 0:44:15.040 like employee health or workers compensation or anything like that. 0:44:16.280 --> 0:44:21.600 And they just have that six week contract that they 0:44:21.600 --> 0:44:27.560 focus on and they they're definitely paid their worth. There's 0:44:27.640 --> 0:44:31.000 less liability on the hospital too. If there's any medical errors, 0:44:31.120 --> 0:44:34.759 it's easier to like blame the travel nurse instead of 0:44:35.080 --> 0:44:40.680 blaming like institutional failures. Um, travel nurses, they just they 0:44:40.719 --> 0:44:43.239 can't unionize. There's just not a way. There's not like 0:44:43.280 --> 0:44:46.560 a common area for them to come together and yeah, 0:44:46.760 --> 0:44:56.200 create a union. So that's the hospitals like that. Um. 0:44:56.400 --> 0:45:02.040 Also when you have more travel nurses that hospital, that's 0:45:02.160 --> 0:45:04.160 less funding that can go to our union. So like 0:45:04.200 --> 0:45:10.120 we pay union dues every month, UM, and if hospitals 0:45:10.120 --> 0:45:14.240 are hiring more travel nurses, our union gets less funny, 0:45:14.360 --> 0:45:17.640 less power. Sadly, Okay, do you do? You do? You 0:45:17.680 --> 0:45:20.880 know who else wants everyone to work as contract workers 0:45:20.880 --> 0:45:25.200 so they can't unionize. Ever, it's it's the products and 0:45:25.239 --> 0:45:32.440 services that support the show. And we're back. So all right, 0:45:32.520 --> 0:45:34.919 I guess moving on from that, well, okay, I guess 0:45:34.960 --> 0:45:37.320 I guess before we fully move on to talking about 0:45:37.400 --> 0:45:40.120 how the striker was sort of organized, UM, can we 0:45:40.160 --> 0:45:43.399 talk a little bit more about what staffing shortages looks 0:45:43.440 --> 0:45:46.319 like and what what the effect that has on patients is? 0:45:46.440 --> 0:45:49.320 Because I think people like I think people this is 0:45:49.360 --> 0:45:53.200 something people like kind of conceptually understand but don't like 0:45:53.440 --> 0:45:56.800 viscerally get what it means to have a staffing shortage 0:45:56.800 --> 0:46:06.200 in a hospital mhm h UM. So with inadequate nursing 0:46:07.320 --> 0:46:12.840 UM staffing levels by experienced nurses, UM, there's an increased 0:46:12.920 --> 0:46:20.080 rate of patient falls, infections, medical errors UM, increase in deaths, 0:46:20.120 --> 0:46:27.400 increase in pressure ulcers UM, increase in readmission rates. So 0:46:27.520 --> 0:46:32.480 having to go back to the hospital because UM, you 0:46:32.520 --> 0:46:36.120 weren't given like high quality care at the hospital. It 0:46:36.200 --> 0:46:39.400 is just kind of mediocre if nurses are kind of 0:46:39.480 --> 0:46:43.040 strapped with time and I have to divide their attention 0:46:43.080 --> 0:46:46.480 between too many patients. So I don't know if you 0:46:46.520 --> 0:46:48.680 actually are legally allowed to say this, but like how 0:46:48.760 --> 0:46:52.520 many patients like per day roughly are like you are, 0:46:52.560 --> 0:46:57.160 like you are treating patients are retreating the day um 0:46:57.280 --> 0:47:03.080 Our hospital at Methodist has a out four beds and 0:47:03.120 --> 0:47:08.279 we've been at capacity so above a hundred percent, And 0:47:08.320 --> 0:47:09.920 you're probably wondering, well, how do you get above a 0:47:10.160 --> 0:47:17.200 dent um? The e er will board patients, meaning a 0:47:17.320 --> 0:47:20.040 patient will stay on a cart and they'll be in 0:47:20.040 --> 0:47:24.200 a hallway and always will be lined up with patients 0:47:24.200 --> 0:47:28.480 that are just waiting for other patients and other units 0:47:28.520 --> 0:47:33.480 to be discharged so they can take that bed. UM, 0:47:33.640 --> 0:47:36.480 so they can wait in the e R for up 0:47:36.520 --> 0:47:39.319 to two to three days just waiting to be like 0:47:39.600 --> 0:47:45.359 really admitted. UM. So we've been at capacity for a 0:47:45.440 --> 0:47:51.960 long time, and that is that is purposely done to 0:47:52.080 --> 0:47:57.839 maximize profit, just because of they've been consolidating, closing other 0:47:57.920 --> 0:48:03.160 hospitals UM and other neighborhoods. Like they're like they're they're 0:48:03.200 --> 0:48:05.399 charging all those people who are just like laying there 0:48:05.400 --> 0:48:10.280 in a hallway right absolutely, or even UM if people 0:48:10.320 --> 0:48:13.280 come in for surgery and they have to after surgery, 0:48:13.280 --> 0:48:16.080 they go to recovery. They can sit in recovery for 0:48:16.360 --> 0:48:21.000 up to eight hours, which normally after surgery you only 0:48:21.000 --> 0:48:22.440 need to be there like a half hour to an 0:48:22.480 --> 0:48:24.319 hour kind of depending on how you will wake up 0:48:24.760 --> 0:48:27.319 from anesthesia, and then you go to your room. But 0:48:27.520 --> 0:48:31.360 we are just holding them in recovery because we're waiting 0:48:31.360 --> 0:48:34.360 on beds and rooms to be available. Because the hospital 0:48:34.400 --> 0:48:41.160 does not plan an advance at all. That's not cost effective. Yeah. Well, 0:48:41.200 --> 0:48:43.719 I mean it's funny because it's like it's it really 0:48:43.719 --> 0:48:45.080 seems it's sort of one of those things where it's 0:48:45.120 --> 0:48:48.600 like literally this entire process would be enormously less expensive 0:48:48.600 --> 0:48:50.640 if you hired like four more people and didn't close 0:48:50.680 --> 0:48:53.799 every hospital around you. But like, you know, it's it's 0:48:53.800 --> 0:48:57.279 it's not it's not about efficiency. It's about like making 0:48:57.320 --> 0:48:59.480 sure you have as many dying people like sitting in 0:48:59.520 --> 0:49:03.799 a hallway so you can charge them more. It's like exactly, 0:49:03.880 --> 0:49:12.600 it's people are profitable, not healthy people. Yeah, m hmm, yeah, 0:49:12.680 --> 0:49:15.799 I mean it's really it's like there's just something like 0:49:15.840 --> 0:49:18.640 sort of particularly venal and disgusting about here. It's like, 0:49:18.680 --> 0:49:21.240 you know, it's it's all of the same, like, Okay, 0:49:21.239 --> 0:49:23.080 well we we've we've we've built up a monopoly, and 0:49:23.120 --> 0:49:25.560 we're using your monopoly to force everyone to user services. 0:49:25.600 --> 0:49:27.720 And then we're you know, we're we're using contract workers 0:49:27.719 --> 0:49:29.359 to a place to people who would normally do the job. 0:49:29.440 --> 0:49:31.440 But it's like, well, it's with health care, and it's 0:49:31.440 --> 0:49:33.760 like instead of just like every TV show being awful, 0:49:33.880 --> 0:49:35.680 it's here's a bunch of people who are getting sick 0:49:35.680 --> 0:49:39.799 and dying because we just don't have enough nurses exactly. 0:49:39.880 --> 0:49:43.080 And then the only thing the hospitals do, um is 0:49:43.280 --> 0:49:45.480 um they have all the managers go around and tell 0:49:46.160 --> 0:49:49.440 nurses okay, today we gotta flex up. They'll use terminology 0:49:49.560 --> 0:49:52.239 like that that sounds like empowering and like strong man, 0:49:52.560 --> 0:49:54.640 we've gotta flex up today, meaning we want you to 0:49:54.719 --> 0:50:01.440 take more patients than you like safely can meeting. Like 0:50:01.560 --> 0:50:05.040 if you're if you work on a medical surgical unit, 0:50:05.680 --> 0:50:08.880 it's usually like fortified patients is what's recommended for one 0:50:09.000 --> 0:50:11.520 nurse to have for twelve hours. They'll ask you to 0:50:11.520 --> 0:50:16.080 take six or seven Jesus, and they'll call it flexing up, 0:50:16.080 --> 0:50:18.600 and they're like, well, yeah, but Boble, there's flex up. 0:50:18.600 --> 0:50:21.160 Why aren't you flexing up? And it's just it's that 0:50:21.239 --> 0:50:26.520 type of like corporate speak and empowerment language um that 0:50:26.640 --> 0:50:31.879 forces us to risk our license. Yeah, and I think 0:50:32.160 --> 0:50:36.080 one of the consequences of this that, I mean, it's 0:50:36.120 --> 0:50:38.520 really obvious if you've been following sector at all, is 0:50:38.840 --> 0:50:40.960 that Okay, Well, it turns out if you if you 0:50:41.000 --> 0:50:43.640 work a bunch of people like basically to death and 0:50:43.640 --> 0:50:45.279 you don't give them a free sources and you're making 0:50:45.280 --> 0:50:48.960 them take too many patients, it's that people just start quitting. 0:50:50.200 --> 0:50:52.920 And yeah, can you talk a bit about sort of 0:50:52.960 --> 0:50:55.280 the shortage that's been happening because of that too, Because 0:50:55.360 --> 0:50:58.640 that's I think a really bleak like just in the 0:50:58.680 --> 0:51:01.319 long term too. It's just, uh, I don't know, like 0:51:01.440 --> 0:51:04.280 if you want to have an even vaguely functioning society, 0:51:04.320 --> 0:51:07.439 the fact that you can't keep people as nurses, yeah, 0:51:07.680 --> 0:51:18.239 really bad. Absolutely. Yeah. Pandemic hit and nurses realize that 0:51:18.480 --> 0:51:21.000 they're just they're not being paid their worth. There's travel 0:51:21.080 --> 0:51:24.359 jobs that are you can make two under grant a year, 0:51:24.440 --> 0:51:27.640 three under grand a year, um, just doing travel nursing. 0:51:27.760 --> 0:51:31.279 And then they're kind of sold on the idea that 0:51:31.360 --> 0:51:36.160 you own your schedule and you can just kind of 0:51:36.200 --> 0:51:39.200 plan around vacations and other times off you need, and 0:51:39.200 --> 0:51:41.720 you just kind of book like a four week stint 0:51:41.760 --> 0:51:46.200 at a hospital. If you don't like it, you can leave. Um. 0:51:46.239 --> 0:51:49.480 So they kind of just sell our jobs back to us. 0:51:49.520 --> 0:51:54.360 But it's not good healthcare. Yeah, it's just it's like 0:51:55.440 --> 0:51:57.719 you know, I've talked about this with like like people 0:51:57.760 --> 0:51:59.799 who work at Starbucks, for example, where it's like, well, okay, 0:52:00.160 --> 0:52:02.600 if if you're just constant moving people around and nobody's 0:52:02.640 --> 0:52:04.600 like actually stays at a place, and you never you 0:52:04.640 --> 0:52:06.560 never build up a community of people who are working 0:52:06.600 --> 0:52:08.560 with like your cares, you know, it's like, Okay, well 0:52:08.560 --> 0:52:10.440 you're not gonna get good stuff. It's like, yeah, like 0:52:10.520 --> 0:52:15.719 this is like like this is people's lives. Yeah exactly. 0:52:15.800 --> 0:52:19.960 And those um travel travel nurses, I mean, their their 0:52:19.960 --> 0:52:24.120 goals are usually like financial freedom, like all of our 0:52:24.120 --> 0:52:27.359 goals um so, and their goals are always short term. 0:52:27.440 --> 0:52:28.960 You know, all I have to do is just deal 0:52:29.000 --> 0:52:31.719 with this hospital for four weeks and then I'm gone, Well, 0:52:31.760 --> 0:52:34.960 how is that going to fix any institutional area errors? 0:52:35.000 --> 0:52:39.120 I mean, are issues there? I mean, they never will 0:52:39.160 --> 0:52:42.560 hold the employer accountable. Yeah, and especially like it seems 0:52:42.560 --> 0:52:45.200 like like you know, even even even if like everyone 0:52:45.400 --> 0:52:46.840 walking like I don't, I don't think you could have 0:52:46.840 --> 0:52:49.040 a functional hospital system if everyone was a travel nurse. 0:52:49.080 --> 0:52:52.319 But like at some point it feels like there's no 0:52:52.360 --> 0:52:55.600 way for there to be, like there's no way for 0:52:55.760 --> 0:52:59.240 people to like keep leaving hospitals to go be travel nurses. 0:52:59.239 --> 0:53:01.839 And also for travel nurse is pay to stay that high? 0:53:02.040 --> 0:53:05.640 Yeah exactly. Eventually it'll get saturated, and that's kind of 0:53:05.680 --> 0:53:09.200 the goal of hospitals to push all of their UM 0:53:09.200 --> 0:53:14.279 permanent employees into traveling. So once that industry becomes saturated, 0:53:14.440 --> 0:53:17.200 then you can decrease wages, and we'd have to compete 0:53:17.200 --> 0:53:21.960 amongst each other, um, for certain jobs with certain hours 0:53:22.000 --> 0:53:26.439 that we need or whatever. We'll just be Um, it's 0:53:26.480 --> 0:53:30.960 just a race to the bottom. We're just gonna Yeah. 0:53:31.320 --> 0:53:38.080 Then the employer will control the market. And it's yeah, um, 0:53:38.200 --> 0:53:42.120 And I can't imagine twenty years from now, um, trying 0:53:42.160 --> 0:53:44.239 to be a travel nurse. It's just going to be 0:53:44.239 --> 0:53:46.800 hard to compete with those younger people that are that 0:53:46.880 --> 0:53:49.719 could work harder and faster and longer than me for 0:53:49.800 --> 0:53:55.520 less money. It's not sustainable for a career. Yeah, it's 0:53:55.640 --> 0:53:58.200 it's just doesn't seem like a good way to do healthcare. 0:53:58.640 --> 0:54:06.640 Like yeah that also oh yeah, m hm, exactly. Yeah. 0:54:06.800 --> 0:54:09.000 So I guess the next thing you want to talk 0:54:09.000 --> 0:54:10.520 about in terms of okay, so how do you make 0:54:10.520 --> 0:54:14.240 this better? Is about Yeah, this is a very large 0:54:14.320 --> 0:54:19.160 multi hospital strike across multiple cities, which is really impressive 0:54:19.160 --> 0:54:20.560 thing to pull off. And I was warning to talk 0:54:20.600 --> 0:54:25.319 about how how that happens. Yeah, you know, the pandemic 0:54:25.440 --> 0:54:28.080 really pushed a lot of nurses to want to fight 0:54:28.160 --> 0:54:32.160 for change. Um. And I think that it all started there. 0:54:32.239 --> 0:54:34.640 We all started coming together with the same issues and 0:54:34.719 --> 0:54:42.000 problems and um, yeah, finally just started organizing more. Um. 0:54:42.040 --> 0:54:46.239 All these hospitals were currently unionized, but somewhere more like 0:54:46.680 --> 0:54:52.240 involved in their union than others. UM. I'd say now 0:54:52.800 --> 0:54:55.360 a lot of nurses are more involved in the union. 0:54:55.400 --> 0:54:59.880 And it's a lot of younger nurses too. UM, just 0:55:00.080 --> 0:55:04.640 because there people are finally realizing that we are the union. 0:55:05.239 --> 0:55:07.839 It's not a separate entity from us. It's something that 0:55:08.440 --> 0:55:11.680 we can control and be a part of and be 0:55:11.719 --> 0:55:17.400 able to use it to balance power. UM. So it 0:55:17.600 --> 0:55:22.160 just yeah, it's our only way to fight um, this 0:55:22.280 --> 0:55:26.000 healthcare sector. I also want to ask about what the 0:55:26.040 --> 0:55:32.160 negotiation process has been like, because I mean five months 0:55:32.280 --> 0:55:35.200 is I mean, you know, okay like that you very 0:55:35.280 --> 0:55:39.760 rarely get fast contracts when you're dealing with bosses. But yeah, 0:55:39.920 --> 0:55:44.440 like the contract negotiation process seems to have been really bad, 0:55:44.640 --> 0:55:49.680 even by sort of like regular contract association standards. Yeah, 0:55:49.920 --> 0:55:56.160 for sure. I mean our negotiations. We probably have negotiations 0:55:56.200 --> 0:55:59.759 like once a week, once every other week, um, and 0:55:59.800 --> 0:56:02.840 the hospital shows up with five of their like elites 0:56:02.880 --> 0:56:06.000 that just hied behind a corporate lawyer. It was just 0:56:06.040 --> 0:56:08.839 a union busting lawyer. And all they do is just 0:56:08.960 --> 0:56:13.000 gaslight and demonize us and say, well, the hospital staffing 0:56:13.000 --> 0:56:15.560 shortage is your fault because you guys are calling in 0:56:15.680 --> 0:56:18.720 sick too much or I mean, they just turn everything 0:56:18.760 --> 0:56:24.879 around to blame the nurses. It's very demoralizing. It's um, 0:56:25.200 --> 0:56:29.680 we feel very just underappreciated, especially with everything we've gone 0:56:29.680 --> 0:56:32.400 through with the pandemic, and they've just been dismissive of 0:56:32.520 --> 0:56:36.440 what we're um, what our needs are and anything, especially 0:56:36.440 --> 0:56:39.080 like like the like the calling in sick too much, 0:56:39.080 --> 0:56:41.239 just like well, yeah, okay, maybe your nurses wouldn't be 0:56:41.239 --> 0:56:44.000 getting sick if you were making them work with no people, 0:56:44.000 --> 0:56:50.359 like with PPE a pandemic, like Jesus Christ. Oh, It's 0:56:50.400 --> 0:56:54.360 just it's just comical the arguments as they have, I know, 0:56:54.560 --> 0:56:58.040 and like we don't we can't ever get vacation that 0:56:58.160 --> 0:57:01.040 we're asking for. I mean, one of one of our 0:57:01.040 --> 0:57:04.040 proposals is just to get a two week block vacation 0:57:04.160 --> 0:57:08.480 for every nurse in the hospital, guaranteed every year. Um, 0:57:08.600 --> 0:57:11.400 because we don't even get that. We we have a 0:57:11.440 --> 0:57:14.560 cap on our vacation hours and then we get denied 0:57:14.560 --> 0:57:18.520 our vacation constantly, people calling sick because we need a 0:57:18.600 --> 0:57:25.360 day off. We need a break. Yeah, we're out. Like yeah, yeah, 0:57:25.440 --> 0:57:27.280 Like okay, like if you have vacation hours, but you 0:57:27.360 --> 0:57:31.160 can't use them, you don't actually have them, Like it's 0:57:31.200 --> 0:57:36.320 not how this works exactly. Yeah, it's it's a benefit 0:57:36.400 --> 0:57:40.520 they control. Yeah. One of the things that I've been 0:57:40.560 --> 0:57:43.280 reading about that you've all been fighting for. That it's 0:57:43.400 --> 0:57:46.400 really interesting to me because it's something I've seen in 0:57:46.480 --> 0:57:49.640 a few other struggles kind of proposed, but never like 0:57:51.040 --> 0:57:55.240 really like put in the center of the thing is 0:57:55.320 --> 0:58:02.080 talking about like all right, like giving giving giving workers 0:58:02.120 --> 0:58:06.440 a role in staffing decisions. Yeah, yeah, you can you 0:58:06.480 --> 0:58:09.640 talk about that because that that's really interesting to me. Yeah, 0:58:09.880 --> 0:58:14.160 absolutely so. Um, I mean, currently we don't own our profession, 0:58:14.240 --> 0:58:19.120 We have no say in staffing ratios. The hospitals decide 0:58:19.880 --> 0:58:28.120 um what is safe care, and they're doing it absolutely wrong. Um. 0:58:28.360 --> 0:58:31.360 So we want to be able to take that back 0:58:31.800 --> 0:58:35.240 and control that and to say this is what we 0:58:35.360 --> 0:58:39.680 need because our patients are sicker. Um, they're staying longer 0:58:39.720 --> 0:58:44.160 in the hospital, and in order to provide safer care, 0:58:44.520 --> 0:58:50.560 we you know, these need this many nurses for this 0:58:50.680 --> 0:58:54.280 many patients. Um. So what would that be on like 0:58:54.400 --> 0:58:57.760 a sort of like Okay, you like you have a negotiation. 0:58:57.880 --> 0:59:00.080 You said, this is this is like the like this 0:59:00.200 --> 0:59:01.920 is just the ratio is just like a data this 0:59:01.960 --> 0:59:04.320 is an individual, day to day thing. Um. Yeah, I'm 0:59:04.320 --> 0:59:10.520 wondering how this would work. Yeah, right now, let's see. 0:59:10.560 --> 0:59:13.600 I know we are asking for like a committee that's 0:59:13.640 --> 0:59:18.280 made up of I mean administrative staff but also nurses. 0:59:18.640 --> 0:59:21.600 But we want the nurses to be able to have 0:59:21.760 --> 0:59:26.680 the power to implement policies and change um if they 0:59:27.360 --> 0:59:33.360 think it needs to be done. Yeah. So it would 0:59:33.440 --> 0:59:37.840 be like a grid review. I think it's nearly as 0:59:37.920 --> 0:59:42.120 what we're asking for, um, but can be up to 0:59:42.280 --> 0:59:46.520 quarterly if need be. Kind of just depending on what 0:59:46.720 --> 0:59:52.040 we're hearing from other employees on other units. Um. So. 0:59:52.400 --> 0:59:56.560 I I think it's kind of like on a a 0:59:56.680 --> 1:00:01.600 week to week evaluation to see what's working in it's not. Um. 1:00:02.000 --> 1:00:04.439 I know. The hospital's argument for that is it would 1:00:04.440 --> 1:00:10.360 take nurses away from the bedside, but in reality that 1:00:10.440 --> 1:00:18.160 doesn't make any sense. In reality, it would retain staff. Yeah. Well, 1:00:18.200 --> 1:00:20.400 and also okay, it's like, oh no, we've we've we've 1:00:20.480 --> 1:00:22.560 taken a nurse away from the bedside for one hour 1:00:22.640 --> 1:00:24.840 to go to a committee meeting where they say we 1:00:25.320 --> 1:00:31.080 could put more nurses in and like we watched this 1:00:31.320 --> 1:00:36.120 committee like made outside of UM like that like those 1:00:36.240 --> 1:00:38.800 nurses schedules, and then we also want them to be 1:00:38.920 --> 1:00:41.880 paid for their time. Hospital disagrees with all of that. 1:00:41.960 --> 1:00:43.800 They don't even want to pay nurses for their time 1:00:43.880 --> 1:00:54.160 to create safe staffing ratios. It's hard. So like the 1:00:54.200 --> 1:00:56.520 people that are empowered, they're just a bunch of narcissists, 1:00:57.120 --> 1:01:00.880 that's all they are. UM, and that's the only way 1:01:00.920 --> 1:01:02.800 to remain in power is to have no empathy for 1:01:02.880 --> 1:01:07.160 your employees. So that is what we're up against. So 1:01:07.840 --> 1:01:10.200 every negotiation, I feel like I'm just arguing with a 1:01:10.240 --> 1:01:17.400 two year old. Yeah, I mean it really like they 1:01:17.480 --> 1:01:19.040 really seem like a kind of people who you can 1:01:19.120 --> 1:01:22.200 only actually the only language they understand is power, and 1:01:22.360 --> 1:01:24.000 like the only way you can get invest them of 1:01:24.040 --> 1:01:28.000 anything is just like whacking them over the head with it. 1:01:29.240 --> 1:01:36.600 Which David Graper had this thing about UM. It was 1:01:36.680 --> 1:01:40.080 it him. I think he had this thing about how 1:01:40.200 --> 1:01:47.360 like the trying to think of how he actually phrased it. 1:01:47.640 --> 1:01:49.600 It was basically like, Okay, if if you have a 1:01:49.720 --> 1:01:52.960 lot of like if you have like a large amount 1:01:52.960 --> 1:01:55.680 of actual physical power over someone, you don't need to 1:01:55.800 --> 1:01:58.600 like use eloquent arguments at all. You can just sort 1:01:58.640 --> 1:01:59.920 of like tell them what to do and they have 1:02:00.000 --> 1:02:02.480 to do it. And like, the less actual physical power 1:02:02.560 --> 1:02:04.120 you have, the more you have to sort of like 1:02:04.240 --> 1:02:07.480 use argumentation to convince people to do things. And this 1:02:07.840 --> 1:02:10.640 really seems like the peak of cure. A bunch of 1:02:10.680 --> 1:02:13.360 people who have been so powerful for so long they 1:02:13.400 --> 1:02:15.800 don't even like they don't even know how to make 1:02:15.840 --> 1:02:18.840 a compelling argument because I've never had to. All all 1:02:18.880 --> 1:02:20.880 they all they've ever had to do is use brute force, 1:02:22.720 --> 1:02:25.800 And it like sucks trying to use like logic and 1:02:25.920 --> 1:02:30.480 reason against people who like by design don't know and 1:02:30.600 --> 1:02:32.200 don't want to know how to do this because if 1:02:32.400 --> 1:02:34.000 if they if they're ever in a position where they 1:02:34.040 --> 1:02:36.200 have to, it means that their power has been diminished. 1:02:36.880 --> 1:02:41.840 Mm hmm exactly. Well. And also nurses like we're natural 1:02:41.960 --> 1:02:45.040 people pleasers were like kind of a we can be 1:02:45.120 --> 1:02:47.600 a little more submissive, and we've been like that for 1:02:47.760 --> 1:02:50.440 years and we're finally standing up for ourselves. And they 1:02:50.520 --> 1:02:54.200 really don't have arguments. Yeah, I mean, it's like they're 1:02:54.240 --> 1:02:56.800 killing people, Like it's like they're they're killing people for 1:02:56.920 --> 1:02:59.960 money that there's not like there's not actual mortal destiny 1:03:00.000 --> 1:03:07.440 patients here exactly. I know. Yeah, it's just God, what 1:03:07.800 --> 1:03:09.760 a terrible way to run a health care system. Like 1:03:10.120 --> 1:03:15.000 just oh I know, and um, I know a lot 1:03:15.040 --> 1:03:19.200 of hospitals are getting more into like creating executive care 1:03:19.480 --> 1:03:23.280 and executive hospitals executive clinics and which all that is 1:03:23.440 --> 1:03:28.680 is just a hospital that is just dedicated to exactly 1:03:28.760 --> 1:03:31.840 like the elites. And you would pay that hospital like 1:03:32.120 --> 1:03:35.680 a country club membership, so like to under granted or 1:03:35.840 --> 1:03:38.560 whatever it's. They're not going to take Medicare, they're not 1:03:38.600 --> 1:03:42.520 going to take Medicaid. Um, it'll be strictly out of pocket, 1:03:42.800 --> 1:03:47.520 not insurance, out of pocket um money. And you can 1:03:47.640 --> 1:03:49.560 just get all of the care you need at that 1:03:49.640 --> 1:03:53.680 one facility. Um, it'll have all specialties, you can see 1:03:53.720 --> 1:03:56.640 them same day, you can text your doctor. It's just 1:03:57.280 --> 1:04:01.280 health care that's just on demand and readily available for 1:04:01.400 --> 1:04:07.240 those people that can pay it. I know. I mean meanwhile, 1:04:07.280 --> 1:04:10.560 everyone else is like waiting seventeen hours with like a 1:04:10.720 --> 1:04:16.600 hole in them in a hallway exactly like fair View 1:04:16.760 --> 1:04:19.720 is one of the hospital chains in our UM in 1:04:19.840 --> 1:04:23.040 Minnesota and they're creating a thousand bad hospital for the 1:04:23.160 --> 1:04:26.880 ultra elite. They're going to be doing that soon. And 1:04:27.040 --> 1:04:29.720 then they're also bargaining with the nurses and saying that 1:04:29.800 --> 1:04:32.920 they don't have money to pay them raises, they don't 1:04:32.960 --> 1:04:34.840 have money to give them family leaves, they don't have 1:04:34.920 --> 1:04:39.720 money to UM create better staffing models, you know. And 1:04:39.800 --> 1:04:41.080 one of the things I keep hearing about this is 1:04:41.120 --> 1:04:43.720 they're like, oh, like the rich hospitals will subsidize the 1:04:43.800 --> 1:04:45.480 ones that don't make money. It's like, no, they won't, Like, 1:04:45.560 --> 1:04:46.880 you're just gonna you're just going to keep all of 1:04:46.960 --> 1:04:49.520 that money and continue not funding the poorer hospitals, Like 1:04:50.320 --> 1:04:53.200 you won't you already do this. You can't actually fool 1:04:53.240 --> 1:04:55.760 anyone who has a bit more than two seconds like 1:04:56.200 --> 1:05:01.280 looking at this works exactly. I know. I know they're 1:05:01.280 --> 1:05:04.360 going to prioritize those executive hospitals and just fuddle all 1:05:04.440 --> 1:05:07.280 their money and resources that direction. It'll for sure be 1:05:07.400 --> 1:05:10.880 non union and they will push so much non union propaganda. 1:05:11.120 --> 1:05:19.240 Athles abilities two mm hmmm, Yeah sucks, not suck it. 1:05:20.120 --> 1:05:23.080 It does suck, I know, And just a lot of 1:05:23.120 --> 1:05:26.840 people don't know about it. It's scary what we're what 1:05:27.000 --> 1:05:31.360 we're heading towards, and that's that's that's what we're fighting for, 1:05:31.680 --> 1:05:34.160 our fighting against. And I mean, I mean, I will 1:05:34.160 --> 1:05:36.200 say like I do feel like a lot of the 1:05:37.320 --> 1:05:39.880 I don't know, I've been thinking about this a lot, 1:05:40.160 --> 1:05:44.160 with like what happened in and like why that kind 1:05:44.160 --> 1:05:48.600 of thing happens, And I think a lot of like, Okay, 1:05:48.760 --> 1:05:50.520 there is an extent to which people sort of don't 1:05:50.560 --> 1:05:52.880 care about violence. There's an extent to which people like 1:05:53.040 --> 1:05:55.120 are able to sort of like rationalize it. But but 1:05:55.200 --> 1:05:58.160 I think there is an extent to which, like the 1:05:58.240 --> 1:06:00.520 average person on the street has no idea this is 1:06:00.560 --> 1:06:03.760 happening until there's like sitting in a hospital room, and 1:06:03.800 --> 1:06:07.760 then they don't understand why it's happening, and so I think, yeah, 1:06:07.840 --> 1:06:09.840 like I I don't like this. This is not an 1:06:09.880 --> 1:06:13.160 acceptable state of affairs, and I think I don't know, 1:06:13.400 --> 1:06:15.720 like the one people starting to fight back, and then 1:06:15.760 --> 1:06:19.480 when people like actually know about what is happening, I 1:06:19.560 --> 1:06:21.720 think it's gonna be like hopefully it will become harder 1:06:21.760 --> 1:06:25.800 and harder for them to do this stuff, because you know, hey, 1:06:25.920 --> 1:06:31.560 like yeah, people are literally dying and being like previously 1:06:31.640 --> 1:06:36.320 injured because the hospital refuses to pay more. Exactly. No, 1:06:36.520 --> 1:06:40.840 they just the hospitals just push that propaganda that they're underfunded, 1:06:40.960 --> 1:06:45.560 they can't afford stance, they can't afford this, and there's 1:06:45.720 --> 1:06:48.640 a nursing shortage and there's nothing they can do about it. 1:06:48.800 --> 1:06:51.600 And it's actually there's not a nursing shortage at all. 1:06:51.720 --> 1:06:54.520 There's a shorge and nurses that want to deal with 1:06:54.680 --> 1:06:59.760 this ship. Yeah, they're just leaving the bedside for better jobs. 1:07:01.760 --> 1:07:03.880 I think the thing I wanted to sort of start 1:07:03.960 --> 1:07:07.160 closing on is about like, okay, like that there there 1:07:07.320 --> 1:07:09.760 is some negotiation going on about pay raises because hey, 1:07:09.800 --> 1:07:13.360 guess what inflation is happening, etcetera, etcetera. But like the 1:07:13.440 --> 1:07:18.320 extent to which the negotiations aren't about like a aren't 1:07:18.320 --> 1:07:20.200 about pay because this is something we've been seeing. I mean, 1:07:20.360 --> 1:07:22.000 this is a this is a thing with the with 1:07:22.080 --> 1:07:24.880 the rail strike that's temporarily been averted. This is the 1:07:24.920 --> 1:07:26.360 thing there has been a thing in a lot of places. 1:07:26.360 --> 1:07:28.960 It's been a thing that's been driving people out of 1:07:29.040 --> 1:07:34.000 the workplace just everywhere. Is that. Yeah, like it's like 1:07:34.160 --> 1:07:37.520 this strike isn't really like if I think it's like 1:07:37.960 --> 1:07:40.560 I don't know, okay to tell me this is wrong. 1:07:40.600 --> 1:07:42.480 I don't think the strike would have happened if it 1:07:42.520 --> 1:07:45.600 had just been people not getting paid enough, like I 1:07:45.680 --> 1:07:47.720 I think if there was adequate staffing, and I think 1:07:47.760 --> 1:07:50.280 if there was like if people weren't paying for us 1:07:50.280 --> 1:07:51.800 to take more patients, like there wouldn't be a strike 1:07:51.920 --> 1:07:56.919 right now or there wouldn't have been a strike. Yeah. Possibly, Yeah, 1:07:57.040 --> 1:08:00.919 for sure. I think, Um, we're definitely not paid our worth, 1:08:01.080 --> 1:08:04.800 but also that's not all we want. There's definitely way 1:08:05.000 --> 1:08:13.840 more to it. Um yeah, it's um, we just we 1:08:13.920 --> 1:08:17.680 want to reclaim our profession. Yeah. Like it seems like 1:08:17.800 --> 1:08:20.080 it really seems like they're like the stuff that's happening, 1:08:21.240 --> 1:08:25.759 and I think sort of broadly like is like it's 1:08:25.800 --> 1:08:28.599 not just sort of about conversation. It's about the fact 1:08:28.760 --> 1:08:33.280 that for I mean my entire lifetime for like twenty 1:08:33.360 --> 1:08:37.640 five years, but like before that, like employers have had 1:08:37.640 --> 1:08:39.880 almost limited power and they've used are almost limited power 1:08:40.040 --> 1:08:44.400 to just make everyone's lives absolutely living hell. And they've 1:08:44.520 --> 1:08:46.760 they've used it to sort of like just to force 1:08:46.840 --> 1:08:49.720 to force people to work hours that are like unbelievable, 1:08:49.760 --> 1:08:53.040 to force people to like, you know, like like force 1:08:53.080 --> 1:08:57.120 people to stand there with like like cans so they 1:08:57.160 --> 1:08:59.040 can pee into while they're still on an assembly line. 1:08:59.080 --> 1:09:01.800 Force people just like this, like unbelievably just sort of 1:09:02.320 --> 1:09:04.680 horrible and degrading stuff. That's like it's like, no, you 1:09:04.960 --> 1:09:08.280 can't actually just fix this with higher wages. You actually 1:09:08.360 --> 1:09:11.960 have to change, like something actually has to change about 1:09:11.960 --> 1:09:14.280 how the workplace works, because otherwise people are just going 1:09:14.360 --> 1:09:22.920 to stop. Exactly, yeah, exactly, Um yeah, I know. One 1:09:22.960 --> 1:09:26.280 of our proposals, we want to work a max of 1:09:26.680 --> 1:09:29.960 three twelve hours shifts in a row because right now 1:09:30.040 --> 1:09:33.160 our contract says we can't work more than seven twelve 1:09:33.200 --> 1:09:35.600 hours shifts in a row, and we obviously that is 1:09:35.960 --> 1:09:38.120 way too much and that's something that would mean even 1:09:38.280 --> 1:09:41.240 even three is like like, isn't it really? Like every 1:09:41.240 --> 1:09:43.960 single time I read one of these things, it's like okay, 1:09:44.479 --> 1:09:47.840 like hey, I like, yeah, okay, we we we we 1:09:47.960 --> 1:09:50.160 want for only one of our fingers to be cut 1:09:50.200 --> 1:09:52.360 off per shift instead of four, And it's like this 1:09:52.520 --> 1:09:56.759 is like, oh God, It's like the demands are incredibly 1:09:56.800 --> 1:10:01.680 reasonable considering being asked to do, Like Jesus, don't all, 1:10:01.880 --> 1:10:04.320 oh yeah, we want the hospitals to have six months 1:10:04.360 --> 1:10:09.760 of PPE on hand at all times. They've already declined that. Yeah. 1:10:10.160 --> 1:10:12.519 I was like, oh, who who who needs PPE? Like 1:10:12.840 --> 1:10:15.040 really everyone in the splice She's like, oh who who 1:10:15.160 --> 1:10:18.400 needs to have? Who who needs to have? Like stories 1:10:18.439 --> 1:10:20.680 of critical spare parts? No one. This this will never 1:10:20.800 --> 1:10:22.559 come back to haunts. We will never be in any 1:10:22.600 --> 1:10:24.559 position where we said you don't have the spirit parts? 1:10:25.680 --> 1:10:29.640 Oh my god, yeah, I know. Um, we have a 1:10:29.720 --> 1:10:34.680 pandemic proposal we want, um, we want to pass and 1:10:34.800 --> 1:10:37.400 that's just to give the nurses the power to decide 1:10:37.840 --> 1:10:43.360 um what we need when another pandemic hits, um, to 1:10:43.520 --> 1:10:49.640 provide SafeCare and like safety for ourselves. Um. Yeah. The 1:10:49.720 --> 1:10:53.320 hospital didn't include us on any decisions during the pandemic. 1:10:54.760 --> 1:10:58.599 It was yeah, we were just used and abused. Yeah, 1:10:59.240 --> 1:11:02.360 and we had to use our own stick time and 1:11:02.439 --> 1:11:05.400 vacation if we were exposed or if we had quarantines. 1:11:05.400 --> 1:11:09.360 So if we're diagnosed with COVID yeah, which also like, 1:11:10.479 --> 1:11:16.000 but did you get COVID? What is happening? Um, I've 1:11:16.040 --> 1:11:18.960 only had it once that I know of. Yeah, I 1:11:19.000 --> 1:11:22.600 mean that okay oldly had it once. It's like I 1:11:23.080 --> 1:11:25.320 don't know anyone who worked as a nurse who didn't 1:11:25.320 --> 1:11:27.040 get COVID at least once, and most of them got 1:11:27.080 --> 1:11:32.760 it at least twice. Oh yeah, just god, I don't know. 1:11:33.120 --> 1:11:41.280 It's just so bleak, like I know, and it just 1:11:41.400 --> 1:11:44.600 depended on like your patient population. I'm in surgery, so 1:11:44.680 --> 1:11:51.200 I'm a little more like guarded from that um COVID population. 1:11:51.600 --> 1:11:55.840 You know, we only did surgery if if UM they 1:11:55.920 --> 1:11:58.519 really needed it done and if they were positive for COVID, 1:11:59.520 --> 1:12:01.720 so we kind of got to pick and choose a 1:12:01.760 --> 1:12:05.000 little bit. Um. But other nurses obviously they could not 1:12:05.240 --> 1:12:14.080 avoid COVID. Yeah, yeah, I don't It's just god, like, 1:12:14.120 --> 1:12:15.519 I can't just go like just this is just the 1:12:15.640 --> 1:12:18.400 worst possible way you can run a medical system. And 1:12:18.479 --> 1:12:24.360 it is just I know, and I know, like I 1:12:24.479 --> 1:12:28.360 know in UM let see, Sandford is another big hospital, 1:12:28.479 --> 1:12:30.640 joint giant that's like in South Dakota, North Dakota, and 1:12:30.640 --> 1:12:32.400 I'm from South Dakota, so that's kind of all like 1:12:32.479 --> 1:12:36.800 really hits home for me. UM is they're hiring seven 1:12:37.880 --> 1:12:45.240 foreign nurses, like from Venezuela, Mexico wherever. Um as like 1:12:45.560 --> 1:12:50.080 they're pretty much using them as travel nurses um just 1:12:50.200 --> 1:12:55.639 to avoid actual travel nurses here UM. They will bring 1:12:55.800 --> 1:13:01.519 them here um by and they'll sign like a three 1:13:01.600 --> 1:13:05.000 year contract UM. The hospital will provide housing for them, 1:13:05.880 --> 1:13:12.719 and they will drop wages significantly. In the nursing world, 1:13:12.920 --> 1:13:16.360 especially in South Dakota and North Dakota, they're definitely not 1:13:16.439 --> 1:13:18.040 going to be paid their worth. I know they're going 1:13:18.120 --> 1:13:22.320 to be exploited more than we are. I had family 1:13:22.439 --> 1:13:24.439 like that actually did the antelocole is talking about who 1:13:24.479 --> 1:13:26.240 are doctors, Like, we're in North Dakota for a bit 1:13:26.320 --> 1:13:28.120 and they were just like this is the worst, and 1:13:28.200 --> 1:13:30.600 they like they left for like they left for a 1:13:30.720 --> 1:13:34.040 vast improvement and being in a hospital in Nebraska, which 1:13:34.120 --> 1:13:38.280 is like yeah. And I also like I want to 1:13:38.320 --> 1:13:40.400 talk about this a little bit because this is like 1:13:40.479 --> 1:13:43.479 a this is interesting what the Philippines too, where like 1:13:43.600 --> 1:13:45.400 there's there's like there are a whole industries of like 1:13:46.080 --> 1:13:48.920 basically training people and then shipping them to the US 1:13:49.080 --> 1:13:52.600 so they can be like just horribly exploited. Um. And 1:13:52.680 --> 1:13:54.240 then that's been like one of the things that's been 1:13:55.320 --> 1:13:58.000 like I don't know, like bolstering the profits of the 1:13:58.040 --> 1:14:00.880 medical sector for a long time is step usually just 1:14:01.160 --> 1:14:03.400 like import people and exploit them and yeah, and like 1:14:03.439 --> 1:14:06.000 the fact that they're like, oh god, this is some 1:14:06.520 --> 1:14:10.840 like the the fact that these people are gonna be 1:14:10.880 --> 1:14:13.640 like living in like houses that are owned by their 1:14:13.720 --> 1:14:19.120 bosses is some real like yeah gilded age ship. Yeah, 1:14:19.200 --> 1:14:20.479 I mean, well, I mean the thing I think it 1:14:20.560 --> 1:14:22.719 most like this is this is like standard practice in China, 1:14:22.800 --> 1:14:27.479 for example, and it's a disaster. Like I like, I 1:14:27.560 --> 1:14:29.200 don't I don't know if people have ever like actually 1:14:29.400 --> 1:14:31.760 seen pictures of what the inside of these dormitories look like, 1:14:32.320 --> 1:14:34.720 but like it is like these are you get a 1:14:34.800 --> 1:14:36.880 room that is like smaller from the college dorm room 1:14:37.240 --> 1:14:40.680 that doesn't have air conditioning that like I don't know, 1:14:40.800 --> 1:14:42.920 I I we talked about it on this show, like 1:14:43.120 --> 1:14:45.719 the h We talked about a worker like a couple 1:14:45.760 --> 1:14:48.679 of weeks ago who like died from the heat wave 1:14:48.840 --> 1:14:50.920 because when he came home, I mean, keep people working 1:14:50.920 --> 1:14:52.680 a bunch of shifts and he had to work like 1:14:53.720 --> 1:14:55.679 he had to work a shift in like a hundred 1:14:55.720 --> 1:14:58.960 and four degrees like loading stuff onto a train, and 1:14:59.320 --> 1:15:01.080 he came back home there's no reconditioning, and he's in 1:15:01.080 --> 1:15:02.840 this tunty apartment and he died in his bed because 1:15:03.280 --> 1:15:04.760 you know, it was it was too hot, and like 1:15:04.880 --> 1:15:07.160 like this is the kind of stuff that happens, especially 1:15:07.240 --> 1:15:09.920 when you have like like when when when you're sleeping 1:15:09.920 --> 1:15:11.760 in corporate dormatories and we're sleeping in a place that 1:15:12.080 --> 1:15:14.719 like your boss owns, Like this is the ship that happens, 1:15:15.720 --> 1:15:19.559 and it's really really bleak. And I hope these people 1:15:19.800 --> 1:15:24.760 are able to unionize and like fight their bosses, but like, yeah, 1:15:25.120 --> 1:15:28.160 I don't know it. Yeah, well, I mean fear of 1:15:28.200 --> 1:15:30.840 being exiled. I highly doubt they're going to be able 1:15:30.840 --> 1:15:34.080 to unionize. Yeah, because yeah, because I mean guess everything, 1:15:34.160 --> 1:15:37.680 like like the way the visa process works, right, Like 1:15:37.920 --> 1:15:41.120 it's really easy to like if someone's here to work 1:15:41.240 --> 1:15:43.920 visa and then suddenly you're like, oh, hey, I want 1:15:43.920 --> 1:15:45.920 to unionize, it's like, well, nope, screw you. You don't 1:15:45.920 --> 1:15:53.840 have a job anymore. We're gonna get you deported. Yeah, exactly, 1:15:55.000 --> 1:15:57.000 which I mean, I guess. It's it's it's you know, 1:15:57.120 --> 1:15:58.800 it's it's it's another one of those things where like 1:15:59.800 --> 1:16:04.200 like all of the different sort of disparate like fights 1:16:04.479 --> 1:16:07.400 people are having are connected like like this, this this 1:16:07.520 --> 1:16:11.200 wouldn't be happening, like if we didn't have the sort 1:16:11.240 --> 1:16:13.920 of border regime that we have right now, Like okay, 1:16:13.920 --> 1:16:16.880 if firmigration system wasn't just like you know and like 1:16:16.960 --> 1:16:20.680 and it just like if it wasn't just like a 1:16:20.800 --> 1:16:26.000 giant like torture machine for millions of people, the stuff 1:16:26.000 --> 1:16:27.720 wouldn't be happening if you weren't in this sort of 1:16:27.800 --> 1:16:30.519 moments of like you know, if you if you weren't 1:16:30.520 --> 1:16:32.360 at a moment where the power of unions has been 1:16:32.400 --> 1:16:35.040 collapsing for decades, Like if you weren't, if you weren't 1:16:35.080 --> 1:16:38.960 in a place where like I mean even even even 1:16:39.040 --> 1:16:42.439 sort of like on on on the level of Obama 1:16:42.560 --> 1:16:45.200 going like we're not gonna like we're gonna make our 1:16:45.200 --> 1:16:47.519 healthcare system worse because it will cost insurance jobs if 1:16:47.520 --> 1:16:53.880 you make it any better, Like it's like uh yeah, 1:16:54.160 --> 1:16:56.240 Like like I feel like I feel like the medical 1:16:56.320 --> 1:16:58.720 sector is like like people do working in healthcare is 1:16:58.760 --> 1:17:02.120 like it's one of these places where just like every 1:17:02.920 --> 1:17:04.719 possible it's it's kind of it's kind of like prisons 1:17:04.720 --> 1:17:06.840 where it's like like everything that's gone wrong in our 1:17:06.880 --> 1:17:10.800 society just like gets focused into like one nexus point 1:17:10.960 --> 1:17:12.840 and it's the point where people have to go where 1:17:12.880 --> 1:17:19.800 they die, I know. And the only thing that's holding 1:17:19.920 --> 1:17:24.840 hospitals accountable are unions in this country. Yeah, if there 1:17:24.960 --> 1:17:29.439 was no unions, the wages would be much lower. And 1:17:30.680 --> 1:17:33.679 I don't even know where healthcare would be right now. Yeah, 1:17:35.280 --> 1:17:38.960 I don't know. Not good. I mean, like I can't 1:17:38.960 --> 1:17:40.640 I can keep going back the China because it's like 1:17:40.680 --> 1:17:43.360 that's like the other healthcare system as a disaster that 1:17:43.479 --> 1:17:45.840 like I have family and and it's like, well, I mean, 1:17:45.840 --> 1:17:47.160 I guess the thing that's been happening in the U 1:17:47.280 --> 1:17:49.519 S two of like the increasing violence you can staff, 1:17:49.600 --> 1:17:53.000 but like China has a huge, a huge problem with 1:17:53.400 --> 1:17:57.240 basically riots breaking out because people like someone's family member 1:17:57.320 --> 1:17:59.360 dies because their their care was really bad, and so 1:17:59.439 --> 1:18:01.240 they'll just be like riot and people will go tack 1:18:01.280 --> 1:18:05.560 the doctors and it's like yeah, it's like okay, like 1:18:05.840 --> 1:18:09.840 I get why they're doing this, but it's like it sucks. 1:18:09.920 --> 1:18:11.479 And this is this is a huge problem they've had 1:18:11.560 --> 1:18:16.080 with with retention because their numbers are like they're they're 1:18:16.280 --> 1:18:22.240 like their staff to patient ratios are unreal awful and yeah, 1:18:22.280 --> 1:18:23.640 and like you know, like that that that kind of 1:18:23.760 --> 1:18:30.400 stuff makes health care systems fall apart. Absolutely, yeah. Yeah, 1:18:30.479 --> 1:18:33.200 and that's kind of like they've been doing that here. 1:18:33.439 --> 1:18:36.880 I mean, hospitals have been demonizing nurses instead of like 1:18:37.560 --> 1:18:41.840 actually saying that they do have institutional failures and it's 1:18:42.000 --> 1:18:44.240 their faults and we're only as strong as like the 1:18:44.360 --> 1:18:48.040 safety protocols and policies that are in place. Yeah, and 1:18:48.240 --> 1:18:50.519 like I mean, like the best nurse in the world 1:18:50.640 --> 1:19:00.280 can't be three nurses, like yeah, exactly, yeah, yeah, and yeah, 1:19:00.360 --> 1:19:04.320 so if they kind of do this for a nursing deal, um, 1:19:05.200 --> 1:19:08.479 I mean South Dakota, North Dakota their right to work states, 1:19:08.560 --> 1:19:11.760 so they it's almost impossible to unionize. You can, but 1:19:11.920 --> 1:19:16.160 it's it takes a lot of work. Uh. But when 1:19:16.240 --> 1:19:18.960 most your staff is already travelers, like I was told 1:19:19.040 --> 1:19:24.479 by another nurse, like in North Dakota, Sanford their staff 1:19:24.600 --> 1:19:28.200 is travelers, Well, how the help can you even attempt 1:19:28.240 --> 1:19:31.200 to unionize? And that's that's the goal of hospitals is 1:19:31.280 --> 1:19:36.240 just to create so much turnover where yeah, I mean, yes, 1:19:36.360 --> 1:19:39.800 just turning hospitals into Amazon, which the system meditoriously works great, 1:19:41.040 --> 1:19:50.400 it's exactly. And travelers are less likely to speak up 1:19:50.400 --> 1:19:53.519 because they're just afraid of their contract being canceled or 1:19:53.640 --> 1:19:56.960 they're going to be blacklisted. And blacklisted just means like 1:19:57.080 --> 1:20:00.320 there's a um common website that all hospital as will 1:20:00.360 --> 1:20:03.760 go on just to look at travel nurses that are 1:20:03.880 --> 1:20:08.080 recommended um not to call or not to give a 1:20:08.160 --> 1:20:14.920 contract to Jesus yeah exactly so, and you can blacklist 1:20:14.960 --> 1:20:19.280 a nurse for any reason, um yeah, and the reasons 1:20:19.280 --> 1:20:21.439 they're not disclosed. It just says do not call next 1:20:21.520 --> 1:20:26.960 to that name. Well, but completely ruins their travel career. Yeah, 1:20:27.560 --> 1:20:30.120 it's like it's amazing. It's so formalized. Like I know 1:20:30.200 --> 1:20:32.320 people have been blacklisted from other professions, but it was 1:20:32.360 --> 1:20:34.519 like very like it was kind of an under the 1:20:34.560 --> 1:20:36.639 table thing. This is just like not a not We're 1:20:36.720 --> 1:20:38.680 we were literally going to put your name on a 1:20:39.400 --> 1:20:46.240 list that everyone just has, Like oh god, yeah exactly. 1:20:47.160 --> 1:20:50.960 So if there is, you know, think the issues at 1:20:50.960 --> 1:20:54.240 a hospital, those nurses are less likely to speak up 1:20:54.280 --> 1:20:57.120 and they're less likely to even you know, leave their 1:20:57.200 --> 1:21:03.560 contract because they're afraid of retaliation like that. It just 1:21:03.680 --> 1:21:08.760 incentivizes just a terrible care. Yeah okay, well well well 1:21:08.800 --> 1:21:10.719 we have now spent an enormous amount of time talking 1:21:10.720 --> 1:21:14.000 about how unbelievably messed up. This whole system is, um, 1:21:14.240 --> 1:21:18.320 what can people do to a help this strike and 1:21:18.520 --> 1:21:21.800 be like, will help with contract negotiations and be like, 1:21:22.720 --> 1:21:26.040 just in general, try to fight for better health care 1:21:26.080 --> 1:21:29.599 for people. I know I've been asked that a lot too. UM. 1:21:30.000 --> 1:21:33.360 We do have a website with um M and a 1:21:33.520 --> 1:21:37.519 Minnesota nursing association where we do like to have people 1:21:37.920 --> 1:21:44.320 share their stories about surprise bills or firsthand experiences with understaffing, UM, 1:21:45.000 --> 1:21:48.040 et cetera. UM. And that's something like we've just been 1:21:48.120 --> 1:21:54.680 kind of collecting stories, UM, just so we can kind 1:21:54.720 --> 1:22:01.600 of keep exposing UM the corruption. UM. Also, donating to 1:22:01.680 --> 1:22:05.920 our strike fund is always much appreciated. Yeah, yeah, we 1:22:06.200 --> 1:22:09.439 will put it out a link to that in the description. Yeah, 1:22:10.280 --> 1:22:13.800 that's how you create change, just this public pressure. Yeah. 1:22:14.200 --> 1:22:16.280 Do you do you have anywhere else anything else that 1:22:16.320 --> 1:22:19.200 you want to say? I don't think so. I don't 1:22:19.240 --> 1:22:22.519 think so. I feel like I covered a lot UM. Yeah, 1:22:22.720 --> 1:22:26.200 I just wanted to bring awareness to this topic. Yeah, 1:22:26.400 --> 1:22:27.920 thank you so much for bringing on the show. I'm 1:22:27.920 --> 1:22:30.080 for talking to us about this because yeah, this is 1:22:30.120 --> 1:22:34.000 definitely something that people need to hear and I'm really 1:22:34.040 --> 1:22:37.240 glad you were able to join us. Thank you for 1:22:37.360 --> 1:22:40.559 having me appreciate it. Yeah, this has been NI could 1:22:40.600 --> 1:22:44.280 happen here a podcast by cools On Media, and I 1:22:44.320 --> 1:22:46.720 guess also my heart. Uh yeah, you can find us 1:22:46.720 --> 1:22:50.080 in the usual places. Uh yeah, make make the world 1:22:50.120 --> 1:22:51.640 a better place for nurses in a worse place for 1:22:51.720 --> 1:23:14.679 hospital executives. Yes, it could happen here. It's not it's 1:23:14.720 --> 1:23:18.439 not October yet, but this is a preview of kind 1:23:18.479 --> 1:23:21.880 of how I'll be recording certain things when Halloween gets near. 1:23:22.439 --> 1:23:25.120 So I'm done with my work for the day. The 1:23:25.200 --> 1:23:29.400 rest of you didn't take over. Now, I guess that 1:23:29.560 --> 1:23:33.720 that's me high yep, it's me. It's Christopher. What is that? 1:23:33.840 --> 1:23:37.280 What is this episode about? Christopher? Is it about? No? 1:23:37.720 --> 1:23:39.320 This is this is about a thing that did not 1:23:39.520 --> 1:23:42.439 happen somewhere else, which I guess is slightly off kilter 1:23:42.840 --> 1:23:46.639 for us. But yeah, it also with me is Garrison 1:23:46.840 --> 1:23:52.679 and Treen and Sophie and yeah, yeah, excellent. Alright, seems 1:23:52.680 --> 1:23:55.600 like the episodes started. Good work, everybody, all right, we 1:23:55.720 --> 1:23:58.000 did it. We got there. We've we've've gotten through the introduction. 1:23:58.040 --> 1:24:01.320 Now we can get to a conspiracy theory. That's been 1:24:01.360 --> 1:24:04.840 like all over Twitter, but not kind of in the 1:24:05.000 --> 1:24:07.320 usual places where you'd expect a conspiracy theory to be 1:24:07.439 --> 1:24:11.200 on Twitter, and that is this whole thing where an 1:24:11.320 --> 1:24:13.880 enormous number of people were convinced that she Jumping had 1:24:13.920 --> 1:24:15.519 been ounced it in a coup and that he was 1:24:15.560 --> 1:24:20.559 being held by the army under house arrest. And okay, 1:24:20.640 --> 1:24:25.479 so we're recording this earlier today. I think She Jumping 1:24:25.720 --> 1:24:29.360 like reappeared and it, you know, we had the final 1:24:29.439 --> 1:24:31.439 definitive proof that he had not in fact been like 1:24:32.080 --> 1:24:36.519 disappeared by the Chinese Army. Yeah, yeah, I remember the 1:24:36.800 --> 1:24:40.040 way I encountered this was Twitter informingly that people were 1:24:40.120 --> 1:24:42.880 like discussing it, and I spent like three seconds looking 1:24:42.920 --> 1:24:46.439 at what accounts were saying that Jim Ping was being 1:24:46.680 --> 1:24:50.519 fucking coud, and it was all like, um, I don't know, 1:24:51.160 --> 1:24:56.600 uh anime tip Goblin four to three, like like analyzing 1:24:56.680 --> 1:25:01.320 satellite photos and stuff like, no, we don't I'm just 1:25:01.360 --> 1:25:03.320 gonna I'm just gonna wait to hear what's up with 1:25:03.439 --> 1:25:09.600 this one? Great? Yeah, someone actually did like sorry, like 1:25:09.760 --> 1:25:13.519 a like a word cloud of like like a network 1:25:13.600 --> 1:25:15.240 map of who was spreading it, and it was it 1:25:15.320 --> 1:25:19.000 counts with names like that. Yeah, I mean, and it 1:25:19.080 --> 1:25:24.280 has spawned like articles from outer zera. It's way worse 1:25:24.360 --> 1:25:26.640 than that. It's way worse than that. Like okay, well, 1:25:26.920 --> 1:25:29.600 I always skip ahead a slight bit to uh. The 1:25:29.680 --> 1:25:33.679 place we were at two days ago was the Republic 1:25:33.800 --> 1:25:36.439 Media Network, which is like was one of the biggest 1:25:36.479 --> 1:25:39.240 news networks in in India. I saw some I saw 1:25:39.320 --> 1:25:41.160 a source claiming they get a hundred and fifty five 1:25:41.200 --> 1:25:47.480 million views a week because literally in the world. They 1:25:47.560 --> 1:25:51.640 were literally running a China watcher's parody tweet, like like 1:25:51.720 --> 1:25:53.519 he had they had a China watch. A guy had 1:25:53.520 --> 1:25:55.160 a thread that was like him making fun of it, 1:25:55.240 --> 1:25:57.200 that was like him walking to like red and empty 1:25:57.240 --> 1:25:59.240 places and being like this is a coup, and they 1:25:59.320 --> 1:26:02.040 like they st it up ran the like his tweets 1:26:02.320 --> 1:26:06.000 like as a news story about the coup, like unreal bullshit, 1:26:06.200 --> 1:26:08.880 Like I I know, oh boy, well, this is again 1:26:09.320 --> 1:26:12.240 a point we make regularly on on all of our shows. 1:26:12.320 --> 1:26:15.080 But like you can't, you can't have that kind of 1:26:15.160 --> 1:26:19.160 fun anymore, Like it just immediately gets picked up and weaponized, 1:26:19.280 --> 1:26:22.799 like making making jokes about like fake oh yeah, idiots 1:26:22.840 --> 1:26:26.640 are spreading bullshit about a coup. I'm gonna make fakeku news. Well, congratulations, 1:26:26.680 --> 1:26:28.560 now you've convinced the third of India that there's a 1:26:28.640 --> 1:26:31.920 coup in China. Yeah, Like I think like the China 1:26:31.960 --> 1:26:34.200 watchers I think were like because okay, like and this 1:26:34.320 --> 1:26:35.800 is the thing where there there are there are very 1:26:35.840 --> 1:26:38.599 specific China watch people. I am very mad at because 1:26:38.760 --> 1:26:40.800 when when when they were interviewed by the press, when 1:26:40.800 --> 1:26:42.240 they were writing about it, they were like, Wow, the 1:26:42.360 --> 1:26:44.200 coup could kind of be plausible, but it's not happen. 1:26:44.200 --> 1:26:47.120 It's like no, no, it's not, it is not. I'm sorry, 1:26:47.200 --> 1:26:50.200 Like it is a joke. Like any anyone who actually 1:26:50.240 --> 1:26:52.879 plausibly suggests that j Ping is going to get overthrown 1:26:52.920 --> 1:26:54.920 in a coup is not serious. This is not a 1:26:54.960 --> 1:26:57.640 serious person. This kind of happened, like this is this 1:26:57.720 --> 1:27:00.880 is this is like this is like fucking like Steve 1:27:00.960 --> 1:27:03.000 Bannon is getting the death penalty ship Like it's actually 1:27:03.040 --> 1:27:06.479 less plausible than that, Like it's it's nonsense, Like there's 1:27:06.560 --> 1:27:08.200 and when you say because I'm not I'm not a 1:27:08.280 --> 1:27:10.400 China government now, or when you say it's impossible, is 1:27:10.439 --> 1:27:12.800 it just because like we have a long history of 1:27:12.880 --> 1:27:16.080 what happens when like people who are in power in 1:27:16.160 --> 1:27:19.320 the Chinese Communist Party lose power and it's not coup's well, 1:27:19.360 --> 1:27:21.400 I mean here's the thing, right, so people will make 1:27:21.439 --> 1:27:23.120 a there's like there's like a whole big thing about 1:27:23.120 --> 1:27:25.760 how like Hu Jintao was like the first like successful 1:27:25.840 --> 1:27:28.120 like like non violent like like transition of power in 1:27:28.200 --> 1:27:29.920 Chinese history, and like that's kind of true like in 1:27:30.120 --> 1:27:32.800 the modern CCP because like so after Mao, there's another 1:27:32.840 --> 1:27:36.960 guy who takes power and he gets like fucked up 1:27:37.000 --> 1:27:39.040 by Dan Jo Ping and like his sort of minions. 1:27:39.160 --> 1:27:41.439 But like, okay, so the first thing you have to 1:27:41.520 --> 1:27:42.960 understand about this, and this is something that's gonna come 1:27:43.040 --> 1:27:45.439 up later here is that the Chinese Army is not 1:27:45.600 --> 1:27:47.920 going to stage a coup. Like this is impossible. It 1:27:48.000 --> 1:27:49.680 is not going to happen. The Chinese Army is not 1:27:49.760 --> 1:27:52.400 a political faction that works like this. There has never 1:27:52.520 --> 1:27:55.599 been like that. The Chinese Army has never done a coup, 1:27:55.960 --> 1:27:58.680 like like the Army of the People's Liberation Army has 1:27:58.800 --> 1:28:01.519 never done into coup. That's not how this works. It 1:28:01.640 --> 1:28:03.280 is it is like it is insane. It is like 1:28:04.000 --> 1:28:06.800 just bafflingly incomprehensible that anyone would think they could do this, 1:28:06.880 --> 1:28:08.519 because they can't. Like this, this is this is this 1:28:08.680 --> 1:28:10.080 is not what, this is not what the p l 1:28:10.160 --> 1:28:13.120 A is as an institution. Insofar as people get overthrown 1:28:13.240 --> 1:28:15.240 inside of the party, it's by other people in the 1:28:15.320 --> 1:28:18.280 party doing like factional maneuvering against them, and that can 1:28:18.360 --> 1:28:22.120 sort of happen. But like, okay, this is the year two. 1:28:22.880 --> 1:28:26.800 She jumping has basically like clawbered everyone in the party who, 1:28:26.920 --> 1:28:29.920 like anyone who was actually going to present a serious 1:28:30.000 --> 1:28:32.960 challenge to him, like was claubed like ten years ago, 1:28:34.040 --> 1:28:37.120 so I mean ten tens probably slightly overseight, but like, 1:28:37.760 --> 1:28:39.680 you know, he he just finished part part of the 1:28:39.720 --> 1:28:42.640 background to the stories that he just finished purging like 1:28:43.720 --> 1:28:46.680 a few of his like last remaining like kind of 1:28:46.800 --> 1:28:50.599 seriously not even really serious, but like he's did another 1:28:50.600 --> 1:28:52.240 one of anti corruption purges and he's like had a 1:28:52.280 --> 1:28:55.519 guide like executed for corruption, right, Like this isn't like 1:28:55.600 --> 1:28:57.840 that that that that's how stuff actually works in the 1:28:57.920 --> 1:29:00.519 party is someone gets arrested for corruption and then put 1:29:00.600 --> 1:29:02.840 in prison for a long time or killed like but 1:29:02.960 --> 1:29:05.080 like like you know, executed for like corruption like that 1:29:05.160 --> 1:29:07.040 that that's how this actually works. There's there's like there 1:29:07.120 --> 1:29:09.080 are no cups. This is bullshit. I'm gonna yell at 1:29:09.120 --> 1:29:11.600 China watch her specifically who was talking about this like 1:29:11.840 --> 1:29:15.599 at the end of this episode, because I'm mad about it, um, 1:29:16.360 --> 1:29:18.639 like so like and obviously like right now like obviously 1:29:18.760 --> 1:29:21.600 today like singas we appeared in public, so like this 1:29:21.720 --> 1:29:24.519 is obviously bullshit. Uh, five days ago, if we turned 1:29:24.560 --> 1:29:26.600 back the clock, it was exactly as bullshit as it 1:29:26.800 --> 1:29:31.599 was then. But there's there is some other contexts here, 1:29:31.640 --> 1:29:34.559 which is that So one of the reasons why anyone 1:29:34.680 --> 1:29:36.240 is even talking about this in the first place is 1:29:36.320 --> 1:29:39.599 that UM, on October six, which is like a bit 1:29:39.640 --> 1:29:42.439 over two weeks from now, uh, the CCP is going 1:29:42.560 --> 1:29:45.760 to have the National Congress of the Chinese Communist Party. 1:29:45.840 --> 1:29:48.160 And this this is like the big one, right like 1:29:48.600 --> 1:29:51.800 every five years, like the whole party gets together, and 1:29:51.920 --> 1:29:53.800 it's where they choose the members of the Pullet Bureau, 1:29:54.040 --> 1:29:56.520 and it's where they choose the members of the absolutely 1:29:56.680 --> 1:30:00.760 terribly named Pullet Bureau Standing Committee of the Chinese Communist Party. 1:30:01.479 --> 1:30:04.640 And there's like another thing. There's like another like all 1:30:04.680 --> 1:30:07.240 this stuff is like it's it's based on like like 1:30:07.400 --> 1:30:09.760 this the structure of like this is based on the 1:30:09.800 --> 1:30:13.160 party structure that the Bolsheviks set up. What would be 1:30:13.200 --> 1:30:16.519 the kind of comparison to this for American There really 1:30:16.600 --> 1:30:18.160 is there not not. I mean it's it's kind of 1:30:18.280 --> 1:30:20.400 like like the closest thing would be a presidential election. 1:30:20.439 --> 1:30:24.240 But imagine if a presidential election was like like I 1:30:24.360 --> 1:30:26.840 imagine if presidential election was one party got together and 1:30:26.880 --> 1:30:29.960 that chose the president. So it is it's it's a 1:30:30.040 --> 1:30:32.760 committee that kind of gets the different bureautic leaders of 1:30:32.840 --> 1:30:37.519 different sectors. Well it's it's it's also much like so 1:30:37.760 --> 1:30:40.040 it's basically like it has all of the leader sort 1:30:40.080 --> 1:30:41.800 of like going down like the ranks of the party 1:30:41.920 --> 1:30:45.200 like that you have like like each like like city 1:30:45.360 --> 1:30:47.720 or whatever, like people will you send delegates to it? 1:30:47.800 --> 1:30:50.640 Like originally it was like like back in like the 1:30:50.760 --> 1:30:52.360 like when the Bolsheviks. You're doing this in in like 1:30:52.560 --> 1:30:56.640 nineteen nineteen nineteen, right, Like it's okay, the like these 1:30:56.680 --> 1:30:58.519 are based off of like like the whole party, like 1:30:58.600 --> 1:31:00.800 like the bullshit party would have a congress and all 1:31:00.880 --> 1:31:02.840 of the sort of leading organizers and all like everyone 1:31:02.960 --> 1:31:04.800 like all the sort of like local party factions were 1:31:04.840 --> 1:31:06.560 like elected person and they would set a delegate to 1:31:06.640 --> 1:31:08.439 the thing and then they would all fight out and 1:31:08.439 --> 1:31:09.880 figure out what their policy was going to be. Now 1:31:10.000 --> 1:31:13.120 it's like there's I mean, they're there are power striggles, 1:31:13.160 --> 1:31:15.080 I go on, but the whole like this is an 1:31:15.080 --> 1:31:17.200 actual representative of like a mass party thing is just 1:31:17.240 --> 1:31:19.080 sort of gone. It's just this, this is this is 1:31:19.160 --> 1:31:22.280 sort of like what what what was actually gonna happen 1:31:22.320 --> 1:31:23.920 at this one is we're going to see exactly how 1:31:24.000 --> 1:31:25.599 much power like she j and Ping is gonna take 1:31:26.520 --> 1:31:28.960 because he's I mean, the big story that was talking 1:31:28.960 --> 1:31:31.200 about is like she'simping at the last one of these, 1:31:31.840 --> 1:31:33.640 like well not the last one of these. It was 1:31:33.880 --> 1:31:35.320 it was, it was it was a different congress. But 1:31:35.360 --> 1:31:37.360 he he was able to like eliminate the two term 1:31:37.439 --> 1:31:40.720 limit on Chinese leaders that have been imposed sort of 1:31:40.840 --> 1:31:42.680 like after Mao because people were like maybe this is 1:31:42.720 --> 1:31:45.519 a bad idea. So she's gonna he's gonna get it, 1:31:45.600 --> 1:31:47.640 Like he's gonna get get a third term. There's a 1:31:47.680 --> 1:31:50.760 bunch of debate over like exactly how much power he's 1:31:50.800 --> 1:31:52.639 going to get and like what titles he's gonna get 1:31:53.000 --> 1:31:55.519 but like I don't know, I'll do an episode about 1:31:55.520 --> 1:31:59.040 that after it happens. But basically there's there's this all 1:31:59.080 --> 1:32:01.439 there's all the sort of politic intrigue stuff swirling around 1:32:01.560 --> 1:32:03.200 because this is like this is like this is like 1:32:03.320 --> 1:32:07.479 the big political events like of of the sort of 1:32:07.560 --> 1:32:11.280 like modern periods, um the other thing that was happening. Well, 1:32:11.320 --> 1:32:12.800 and this is also why he was like pershing some 1:32:12.880 --> 1:32:18.479 of his opponents because like, well, you know, so, I 1:32:18.720 --> 1:32:20.200 guess the everything we should we could talk about with 1:32:20.200 --> 1:32:22.040 this is like if people have listened to revolutions, like 1:32:22.080 --> 1:32:24.360 this is how Stalin took over the party, which is 1:32:24.400 --> 1:32:26.000 that you figured out that the like the way you 1:32:26.080 --> 1:32:29.280 take over those the state apparatus is by you you 1:32:29.439 --> 1:32:31.400 make yourself that like the head of the Pullit Buro, 1:32:31.600 --> 1:32:33.280 and then you have enough you have like you you need. 1:32:33.320 --> 1:32:34.800 All you need to do is control like three people 1:32:34.840 --> 1:32:36.120 on the Pullit Bureau and you can just sort of 1:32:36.120 --> 1:32:38.400 like dictate policy down inline for the party and this 1:32:38.520 --> 1:32:40.280 gives you, this gives you control the states, like this 1:32:40.320 --> 1:32:43.000 is this is sort of this that's all like that's 1:32:43.040 --> 1:32:45.920 like the like ancestor of this. It's still a very 1:32:46.000 --> 1:32:51.120 similar kind of structure sort of. Um. Mostly it's just like, yeah, 1:32:51.160 --> 1:32:53.720 there's an important political event going on and the other 1:32:53.800 --> 1:32:56.439 things that she Shouping was out of the country, so 1:32:56.600 --> 1:32:58.400 he was doing he was doing a tour of Central 1:32:58.439 --> 1:33:00.960 Asia for like, like he's doing one of those sort 1:33:01.000 --> 1:33:03.439 of like fluff tourious people do of like we're like 1:33:03.520 --> 1:33:06.479 reaffirming or like trade ties and stuff. So he was 1:33:06.520 --> 1:33:08.960 in samarcand and then he came back I think on 1:33:09.040 --> 1:33:11.960 the twenty first, and then he was just sort of 1:33:12.080 --> 1:33:15.920 vanished for a few days. And the reason that he 1:33:16.080 --> 1:33:17.920 vanished was that he was in quarantine, which is the 1:33:17.960 --> 1:33:20.479 thing that like is real in China but everyone else 1:33:20.520 --> 1:33:25.559 has just like forgotten exists. And so he was actually 1:33:25.720 --> 1:33:28.160 doing the thing that like you're supposed to do because 1:33:28.160 --> 1:33:31.400 he was came back from an international trip. Yeah. Well 1:33:31.479 --> 1:33:33.439 and also like, well, I hate to say you've got 1:33:33.560 --> 1:33:35.760 to hand it to Zesi and pain, but I guess 1:33:35.800 --> 1:33:37.360 you've got to hand it to him. That is there 1:33:37.640 --> 1:33:40.360 what you should do after getting back from an international trip. 1:33:40.479 --> 1:33:42.240 Like Jenny Winely, one of the few things that will 1:33:42.240 --> 1:33:44.680 say about is he has gotten COVID less times than 1:33:44.760 --> 1:33:48.680 Joe Biden. He has not gotten COVID right, like he 1:33:48.800 --> 1:33:50.720 hasn't gotten it. And the reason he hasn't gotten is 1:33:50.720 --> 1:33:53.439 because they actually sort of like there are ways in 1:33:53.520 --> 1:33:56.360 which the way that they take COVID policy seriously is nuts, 1:33:56.439 --> 1:33:59.000 Like they are like anti lockdown riots happening right now 1:33:59.120 --> 1:34:03.000 because they locked like an entire like they locked on 1:34:03.080 --> 1:34:06.400 an entire town because one person got COVID, which like whatever, 1:34:06.560 --> 1:34:08.080 and you can you could argue with the COVID policy, 1:34:08.120 --> 1:34:12.000 but they he he doesn't have COVID. So my mind 1:34:12.080 --> 1:34:14.519 that no one was like this might be an option 1:34:14.600 --> 1:34:17.600 of why he's not around. Well, every everyone who was 1:34:17.680 --> 1:34:20.840 like serious, like like anyone who liked you, Yeah, it 1:34:20.880 --> 1:34:23.920 was like it was all nonsense. People who were spreading 1:34:23.920 --> 1:34:26.759 it like it was all it was all random Twitter accounts. 1:34:26.840 --> 1:34:29.599 I think what would kind of the missing piece here 1:34:29.600 --> 1:34:32.240 and what's actually happened is that so those of you 1:34:32.280 --> 1:34:35.320 who have followed my career, uh will know that there's 1:34:35.320 --> 1:34:37.360 a website called Belling Cat that I wrote at that 1:34:37.640 --> 1:34:40.200 has been in the news pretty continuously for the last 1:34:40.240 --> 1:34:44.600 almost ten years because they kind of helped invent the 1:34:44.680 --> 1:34:49.320 modern concept of open source research UM and open source intelligence, 1:34:49.439 --> 1:34:52.280 which has really had its biggest moments since the invasion 1:34:52.280 --> 1:34:54.599 of Ukraine, because suddenly there's all this footage of tanks 1:34:54.640 --> 1:34:57.320 getting blown up, of of Russian soldiers doing this and 1:34:57.400 --> 1:35:00.519 doing that, and of you know, cities change inging hands 1:35:00.560 --> 1:35:02.120 and all this stuff, and people have been following the 1:35:02.200 --> 1:35:05.120 war through a lot of these big O SENT accounts. UM. 1:35:05.200 --> 1:35:07.519 Kind of the last huge moment in O SENT prior 1:35:07.560 --> 1:35:10.760 to the invasion of Ukraine was was January six UM, 1:35:11.040 --> 1:35:13.280 and that was another big moment for people understanding it. 1:35:13.760 --> 1:35:16.280 And kind of one of the popular conceptions of open 1:35:16.320 --> 1:35:19.200 source intelligence is that random guys on the internet are 1:35:19.240 --> 1:35:22.160 getting better intel than you know, the CIA or whatever. 1:35:22.520 --> 1:35:25.800 Which there's a degree to which that that's true, because 1:35:25.880 --> 1:35:29.840 a lot of random people did become experts in stuff like, um, 1:35:30.240 --> 1:35:33.280 you know, different kind of munitions tracking and whatnot, and 1:35:33.720 --> 1:35:36.680 did a better job of tracing certain things than than 1:35:36.880 --> 1:35:39.120 state agencies were doing, which is why like some of 1:35:39.160 --> 1:35:43.040 those people. UM. Anyway, it's a whole long story, but 1:35:43.360 --> 1:35:45.400 the problem is that it's led people to believe that 1:35:45.560 --> 1:35:48.679 the best intelligence often comes from random people on the Internet, 1:35:48.760 --> 1:35:51.120 and no one of the things if you if you're 1:35:51.120 --> 1:35:53.519 trying to evaluate someone who was claiming to provide o 1:35:53.680 --> 1:35:55.840 sent the most one of the most important things to 1:35:55.880 --> 1:35:58.920 do is number one, can you actually trace their work back? 1:35:59.479 --> 1:36:02.200 Is it possible to like follow their they're thinking and 1:36:02.240 --> 1:36:04.320 their conclusions to determine whether or not what they're saying 1:36:04.320 --> 1:36:06.240 is nonsense? And number two, do they have like a 1:36:06.320 --> 1:36:10.160 track record, because like, for example, Eric Toler and Elliot Higgins, 1:36:10.200 --> 1:36:12.519 who I worked with for a while, have like a 1:36:12.640 --> 1:36:15.519 ten year track record of being consistently right about things 1:36:15.560 --> 1:36:19.080 and breaking massive stories and doing stuff like uncovering Russian 1:36:19.120 --> 1:36:22.960 g r U agent operations and stuff. Um and these 1:36:23.000 --> 1:36:25.160 were just random accounts that no one had ever heard 1:36:25.160 --> 1:36:28.240 of on Twitter claiming to have detailed, figured out detailed 1:36:28.280 --> 1:36:31.960 information about a coup in the Chinese government. There's there's 1:36:32.000 --> 1:36:34.800 nothing behind them. Yeah, well it's it's funny too because like, okay, 1:36:34.840 --> 1:36:37.000 so once once, like actual people, we're gonna get this 1:36:37.040 --> 1:36:38.800 a second. Like once actually people started picking it up. 1:36:38.840 --> 1:36:41.880 Like if you just googled any of the people who 1:36:41.960 --> 1:36:44.280 were like writing about this, it's it takes like five 1:36:44.360 --> 1:36:47.560 seconds to figure out this person's just nuts. And but 1:36:47.640 --> 1:36:49.639 nobody did it because it's it's Twitter. And so instead 1:36:49.640 --> 1:36:53.920 of what happened is um so this thing starts like 1:36:54.040 --> 1:36:58.040 on Chinese Twitter, like it's it's people like like yeah, 1:36:58.240 --> 1:37:00.040 it starts on like like the Chinese speaking part of 1:37:00.120 --> 1:37:03.120 like China Twitter. I'm gonna read a thing from the 1:37:03.200 --> 1:37:06.240 Indian News at first post, which like did a kind 1:37:06.240 --> 1:37:08.240 of clean up job of like hey, all of the 1:37:08.280 --> 1:37:10.360 other Indian heulets you're covering this, I've just have just 1:37:10.400 --> 1:37:13.320 completely lost their minds. Here's like what actually sort of happens. 1:37:13.760 --> 1:37:18.360 Um quote. A Twitter account New Highland Vision, which has 1:37:18.400 --> 1:37:23.840 over followers, wrote on September that former Chinese President Hu 1:37:23.920 --> 1:37:29.200 Jintao and former Premier When Jaibao, had persuaded Song Ping, 1:37:29.439 --> 1:37:31.719 the former member of the Pull Up Euro Standing Committee, 1:37:32.000 --> 1:37:34.880 to take control of the Central Guard Bureau from she. 1:37:36.000 --> 1:37:38.160 So I don't My guess is that makes no sense 1:37:38.200 --> 1:37:42.000 to anyone on like anything. Yeah, so this is Jim Well, okay, 1:37:42.040 --> 1:37:44.840 so what this is? This is some like old school, 1:37:45.040 --> 1:37:50.040 very very weird like old school Chinese inside baseball ship. Um. 1:37:50.400 --> 1:37:51.800 The first thing you should know about this is this 1:37:51.880 --> 1:37:53.640 is completely The first way you can tell this is 1:37:53.720 --> 1:37:57.320 nonsense is that Song Ping is not doing shit, and 1:37:57.400 --> 1:37:59.160 Song Ping is not doing ship because this man is 1:37:59.160 --> 1:38:03.560 a hundred and five five years old. This man was 1:38:03.720 --> 1:38:11.400 born in seventeen. Baby, it's his time, It's his turn, 1:38:12.400 --> 1:38:15.880 you know what. Credit to China. I thought we lived 1:38:15.960 --> 1:38:19.639 in a cliptocracy run by like an aging Ghougle cast. 1:38:19.760 --> 1:38:24.160 But damn, hundreds of five the queen could have lived 1:38:24.240 --> 1:38:29.280 so much longer, like to be fair, to try to 1:38:29.320 --> 1:38:32.639 have this guy's like three generations out like this is okay. 1:38:32.680 --> 1:38:35.799 So the sort of like fantasy here is like kujent 1:38:35.880 --> 1:38:40.880 Tao like taking power, and hugent Tao is like he 1:38:41.040 --> 1:38:43.479 was one of the guys who came in like like 1:38:43.520 --> 1:38:45.720 when he kind of made his bones, like purging the 1:38:45.760 --> 1:38:49.200 people in the CCP who would like hadn't been hard 1:38:49.320 --> 1:38:52.840 enough on the Janaman protesters. But he's he's like he's 1:38:52.840 --> 1:38:54.800 one of the sort of perform and opening guys. Um 1:38:56.560 --> 1:38:58.800 like song Ping is like one of the guys who 1:38:58.920 --> 1:39:02.040 like helped like kojent Tao advanced on them, like kojent Tau. 1:39:02.520 --> 1:39:05.080 It's like a guy from like the nineties, right, Like 1:39:05.439 --> 1:39:08.439 these are like like people who at one point we're 1:39:08.520 --> 1:39:11.559 genuinely powerful and are now like I don't know, I mean, 1:39:11.560 --> 1:39:13.479 there's persistent rumors they do stuff behind the scenes, but 1:39:13.560 --> 1:39:18.560 like it's it's I don't know. They are like unbelievably 1:39:18.640 --> 1:39:22.800 and ferociously decrepit. H Okay, do you know what else 1:39:22.880 --> 1:39:27.439 is unbelievably and ferociously decrepit done, um, the gold company 1:39:27.520 --> 1:39:33.840 that's now advertising. Guys, listen, listeners, you're you're probably gonna 1:39:33.880 --> 1:39:36.400 hear some gold ads from very They're very silly ads. 1:39:36.680 --> 1:39:39.080 People do seem to be enjoying them. I'm gonna tell 1:39:39.080 --> 1:39:41.160 you two things. Number one, don't buy gold. The only 1:39:41.240 --> 1:39:43.559 precious medals you should invest if you're going to invest 1:39:43.640 --> 1:39:46.000 in precious medals, which I don't necessarily recommend, the only 1:39:46.080 --> 1:39:50.760 ones you should invest in our lead, hand and brass. Yeah. Um, 1:39:51.600 --> 1:39:55.240 but yeah, I don't care about these. Like look when 1:39:55.280 --> 1:39:57.479 the fucking c i A or the FBI or the 1:39:57.560 --> 1:39:59.880 Washington State Highway Patrol is advertising on our show. We 1:40:00.000 --> 1:40:02.320 if those ads are moved, I don't care. You're not 1:40:02.360 --> 1:40:05.360 gonna buy gold. Don't buy gold, but we'll take their 1:40:05.439 --> 1:40:08.800 money and we'll use it to pay our salaries. It's fine, Like, 1:40:09.200 --> 1:40:13.720 enjoy it. We're back, boy. You know what, guys, I 1:40:13.800 --> 1:40:16.120 said what I just said there, and I just bought 1:40:16.160 --> 1:40:19.080 a hundred and thirty seven thousand dollars in gold. I'm 1:40:19.080 --> 1:40:22.280 gonna I'm gonna go bury it right now. Actually exactly exactly. 1:40:22.840 --> 1:40:24.760 I can't even buy gold. I'm allergic to it for 1:40:24.880 --> 1:40:30.439 really yeah, I really really really yeah, I'm not going 1:40:30.560 --> 1:40:33.679 to be rich. I didn't know you could be allergic 1:40:33.800 --> 1:40:35.880 to gold. I also did I knew you could be 1:40:35.960 --> 1:40:39.640 allergic because like rings and stuff. Yeah, that makes me 1:40:39.800 --> 1:40:42.800 like the yeah, the metal. I'm not like like die 1:40:42.840 --> 1:40:45.439 if I touch it, but like, yeah, came up on 1:40:45.439 --> 1:40:47.880 an allergy test, so it's like legit. I wonder if 1:40:47.960 --> 1:40:50.880 you're only allergic to like broke people gold, and if 1:40:50.920 --> 1:40:54.320 you're not a lerned maybe poor people gold. I love 1:40:54.400 --> 1:40:57.439 that there's poor people golden people. I know, I know. 1:40:57.640 --> 1:40:59.800 It's just very funny that that's and I'm sure that 1:41:00.000 --> 1:41:03.360 people advertising on our shows are selling like it's like 1:41:03.720 --> 1:41:08.800 asbestos bricks covered in goldlief. We should talk about this 1:41:08.960 --> 1:41:14.280 and not let's continue, Okay, So back back back to 1:41:14.400 --> 1:41:17.519 another kind of incredibly bizarre fantasy. So like the there's 1:41:17.560 --> 1:41:20.160 there's a group of like people who are like like 1:41:20.320 --> 1:41:22.760 Chinese dissidents or whatever, but like whose thing is that? 1:41:22.840 --> 1:41:25.600 Like they think that like jumping is like an unreconstructed 1:41:25.680 --> 1:41:28.640 maoist and that like you know one day like that 1:41:28.760 --> 1:41:30.800 like the people from the reform period who like ended 1:41:30.880 --> 1:41:32.880 Maoism or wondering gonna like sweep him out of power. 1:41:33.000 --> 1:41:37.360 Like this is nonsense, Like it's like the only equivalent 1:41:37.400 --> 1:41:38.800 I can think of this is like every once in 1:41:38.880 --> 1:41:41.040 a while you'll see some Russia expert ranting about how 1:41:41.080 --> 1:41:43.760 like Putin is like on the verge of being overthrown 1:41:43.880 --> 1:41:45.640 and like some like liberal no one has ever heard 1:41:45.680 --> 1:41:47.760 of the nineties is going to do the same ship. 1:41:47.960 --> 1:41:50.200 By the way, the fake Osan that comes out because 1:41:50.200 --> 1:41:52.240 it's all stuff like look, they've closed the streets in 1:41:52.400 --> 1:41:55.160 Moscow and like this street, you know, they've got military out, 1:41:55.200 --> 1:41:57.040 and it's like, well, yeah, they're having a parade. It's 1:41:57.040 --> 1:41:58.840 like a pre announced parade. They do this every year. 1:41:59.080 --> 1:42:01.160 They hold this exact rate every year and they close 1:42:01.240 --> 1:42:03.200 the street down the same way. And you can find 1:42:03.240 --> 1:42:06.200 that if you look into it. But people can take 1:42:06.400 --> 1:42:08.960 like post a bunch of pictures on Twitter of like 1:42:09.160 --> 1:42:13.400 cleared streets and like soldiers blocking intersections, and it looks 1:42:13.479 --> 1:42:15.720 to somebody who doesn't know anything about Russia, like wow, 1:42:15.880 --> 1:42:19.439 these the ocean people have done it again. They've uncovered 1:42:19.479 --> 1:42:22.720 another coup against Putin. Well, it's one thing, one thing, 1:42:22.840 --> 1:42:24.320 one thing. The other thing that I'll say about cus 1:42:24.360 --> 1:42:27.000 is because we we like in the last like maybe 1:42:27.080 --> 1:42:29.200 three or four years, have actually been a lot of coups. 1:42:29.800 --> 1:42:31.960 But the thing about a coup, right is it like 1:42:32.200 --> 1:42:34.240 one of the things that happens very quickly usually in 1:42:34.280 --> 1:42:36.439 a coup. If if the coup plotters are winning, is 1:42:36.520 --> 1:42:39.280 that like they there's you'll you'll you'll you'll see a 1:42:39.360 --> 1:42:42.240 message from something called like the Government of National Salvation 1:42:42.360 --> 1:42:44.839 or some ship and they'll like start putting out statements. 1:42:45.479 --> 1:42:47.720 And if you don't see a statement from like the 1:42:48.000 --> 1:42:51.840 the United Liberation Army of National Salvation or whatever, like 1:42:52.439 --> 1:42:56.360 it's not happening. That's what I'm gonna call mine. Wait, 1:42:56.400 --> 1:42:58.840 I'm just like, okay, I understand how it's spreads, Like 1:42:58.880 --> 1:43:00.479 I'm sure we're gonna get in to it, but I 1:43:00.600 --> 1:43:03.759 understand how it's spread to like people on the internet 1:43:03.840 --> 1:43:05.760 that wants something to latch onto. But if you're saying 1:43:05.800 --> 1:43:07.719 it got to like El Jazeera and all that stuff, 1:43:07.760 --> 1:43:11.880 like there wasn't like a journalist. It's the thing. Okay, 1:43:12.000 --> 1:43:14.400 So there there there's a couple. Yeah, we're gonna get 1:43:14.400 --> 1:43:16.240 to that. Like, so there's just two different kinds of 1:43:16.280 --> 1:43:18.600 things happening, right. One of the things about this conspiracy 1:43:18.680 --> 1:43:20.320 is that there's a lot of people who see it 1:43:20.400 --> 1:43:22.600 and are like like like that there. I saw a 1:43:22.640 --> 1:43:25.519 guy who was like an Ultramaga account right like his things, 1:43:25.520 --> 1:43:28.679 like he was like nuclear Ultramaga who posted a picture 1:43:28.720 --> 1:43:30.040 that was like, oh my god, this is an explosion 1:43:30.080 --> 1:43:31.280 in Beijing and it was like, no, this is how 1:43:31.320 --> 1:43:34.200 much enging explosion jails and fifteen and they always they 1:43:34.200 --> 1:43:35.680 only have I've ever seen this. The next day he 1:43:35.760 --> 1:43:37.439 was like, yeah, I'm sorry, that's actually not what I thought. 1:43:37.439 --> 1:43:41.200 It was like even those guys who at this supports 1:43:41.240 --> 1:43:45.400 to Nuclear Ultra Mega, it was just like people you know, 1:43:45.600 --> 1:43:47.640 normally expect to get bulled over by this stuff, and 1:43:47.640 --> 1:43:50.559 they were like, this is nonsense, Like what is happening? 1:43:50.960 --> 1:43:52.840 You know, I'm glad that we can rely on the 1:43:52.920 --> 1:43:56.759 journalistic credibility of Nuclear Ultra Maga and these uncertain times, 1:43:56.840 --> 1:44:02.520 thank god. Well, Nuclear Ultra Maga was being more responsible 1:44:02.560 --> 1:44:06.400 than most of the mainstream Indian journalistic outlets, which is terrifying. 1:44:07.479 --> 1:44:09.360 So okay, so like like the thing about this, this 1:44:09.720 --> 1:44:11.960 the original version of this conspiracy though, is this is 1:44:12.080 --> 1:44:15.400 like this is gibberish. No, nobody knows what the Central 1:44:15.520 --> 1:44:18.280 Guard Bureau is, Like I had to look that up, 1:44:18.360 --> 1:44:20.799 Like apparently it's a it's a like the Sential Guard Bureaus, 1:44:20.840 --> 1:44:22.360 like this thing that's in charge of like protecting like 1:44:22.439 --> 1:44:24.640 high level leaders or whatever. Like it's nonsense, like this 1:44:25.040 --> 1:44:28.320 is this is like pure inside baseball ship for like 1:44:29.280 --> 1:44:32.960 like people who are like really committed, like Chinese dissident 1:44:33.640 --> 1:44:36.800 what pads. However, what happens next is so people start 1:44:36.880 --> 1:44:39.080 kind of picking up on it, and in particular there's 1:44:39.080 --> 1:44:41.760 a person of Jennifer zang Zen, who has like two 1:44:41.880 --> 1:44:46.240 hundred thousand Twitter followers. Um starts, she starts posting this 1:44:46.400 --> 1:44:48.919 video that claims to be p l A military vehicles 1:44:48.960 --> 1:44:51.439 heading to Beijing on September twenty two, and this is 1:44:51.439 --> 1:44:54.280 like ghost viral. Um. So yeah, I mean, let me 1:44:54.360 --> 1:44:58.160 give us three options. Once footge it's funished from the 1:44:58.200 --> 1:45:04.240 video game three you game, let's think, let's think you know, so, yes, 1:45:04.400 --> 1:45:07.519 I I actually think this is real military footage, and 1:45:07.560 --> 1:45:09.400 I think it's actually kind of recent. It's just that 1:45:09.560 --> 1:45:12.360 like it's really easy in China to just like look 1:45:12.400 --> 1:45:16.160 at a road and see a military trip. Option three, 1:45:16.479 --> 1:45:19.280 it's footage of some fucking like tank on the road 1:45:19.479 --> 1:45:22.840 in China. I'm gonna take it. Was just like armored cars, 1:45:22.920 --> 1:45:24.479 which is like I think that, like like I just 1:45:24.800 --> 1:45:27.320 moved troops around. I just did a road trip up 1:45:27.400 --> 1:45:31.960 to northern Washington for a parkour conference and nerd, I know, 1:45:32.360 --> 1:45:35.800 and we we we passed three military helicopters flying this 1:45:35.920 --> 1:45:40.360 guy we passed like we we we passed like two 1:45:40.720 --> 1:45:44.040 muh like a troop carriers. We passed a whole bunch 1:45:44.080 --> 1:45:45.720 of military equipment. I'm not gonna thill the and be 1:45:45.800 --> 1:45:50.320 like they're invading Oregon, like like what, No, like this 1:45:50.439 --> 1:45:52.040 this is this is a thing. Like if you take 1:45:52.120 --> 1:45:54.280 one thing out of this episode, is that any time 1:45:54.439 --> 1:45:57.479 someone says that they are seeing troop movements, it is 1:45:57.520 --> 1:45:59.559 always alive that this is a Houston dream Hong Kong 1:45:59.680 --> 1:46:02.280 because everyone was like terrified the army was gonna show up, 1:46:02.280 --> 1:46:04.920 and like every two days there'll be another videos almost 1:46:04.920 --> 1:46:08.400 like there's an army confine moving into every It's always fake, 1:46:08.520 --> 1:46:11.120 it's never real. It's like the only time it's ever 1:46:11.240 --> 1:46:13.479 real is if there's actual shooting, like if there's a 1:46:13.520 --> 1:46:16.559 literal war going on, maybe, well, and it's never real, 1:46:16.720 --> 1:46:19.240 you're gonna know when it's real. It's also if you 1:46:19.280 --> 1:46:21.880 want to look about at times, because there are times 1:46:21.960 --> 1:46:25.559 where people do osent on military movements and it's meaningful. 1:46:25.680 --> 1:46:27.800 A good example would be the month that led up 1:46:27.800 --> 1:46:30.240 to the invasion of Ukraine, in which case you were 1:46:30.280 --> 1:46:33.519 able to clearly show here is satellite footage three months 1:46:33.560 --> 1:46:35.560 ago of this place from the air, and here is 1:46:35.600 --> 1:46:38.200 it now, and there's like a million more guys. They're 1:46:38.280 --> 1:46:40.240 clearly something is going on, and we can show this 1:46:40.320 --> 1:46:43.320 pattern repeating in a bunch of areas, right, and this 1:46:43.439 --> 1:46:45.120 and this is this is a very different thing from 1:46:45.240 --> 1:46:47.240 the thing that goes viral on Twitter is someone will 1:46:47.280 --> 1:46:49.600 just post a video of it and if so, and 1:46:49.920 --> 1:46:52.680 if what's happening is they're posting a video of some 1:46:52.840 --> 1:46:55.720 military looking trucks, that person is and and that's all 1:46:55.800 --> 1:46:58.400 it is nine percent at the time that person is 1:46:58.439 --> 1:47:01.080 full of ship. Yeah it's and this is this is 1:47:01.120 --> 1:47:03.120 like one of the most common patterns of just like 1:47:03.360 --> 1:47:06.400 weird bullshit conspiray stuff. Is this stuff people like love 1:47:06.479 --> 1:47:09.800 this again the thing that's happening to open source intelligence 1:47:09.920 --> 1:47:11.840 is the thing that happens to everything cool that comes 1:47:11.880 --> 1:47:13.439 on the end. You have this, you have this, This 1:47:13.760 --> 1:47:15.880 thing is figured out that is made possible because of 1:47:15.920 --> 1:47:19.000 new technology. People do really rad ship and in the 1:47:19.040 --> 1:47:21.360 case of O Sin, it's like, prove that the Russian 1:47:21.400 --> 1:47:25.040 government shot down in h seventeen over fucking Ukraine, and um, 1:47:25.280 --> 1:47:27.479 you know, solve all of these war crimes being committed 1:47:27.520 --> 1:47:30.040 in different areas by figuring out exactly who the perpetrators 1:47:30.080 --> 1:47:31.760 were and where they were committed in all this ship 1:47:31.840 --> 1:47:34.840 based off of like sketchy video footage, and then the 1:47:34.960 --> 1:47:38.519 thing goes viral and elements of the aesthetics of it 1:47:38.640 --> 1:47:42.040 are taken by people who just want to spread bullshit 1:47:42.400 --> 1:47:45.360 um or in some cases who think they're actually doing 1:47:45.439 --> 1:47:49.240 real research and they're just dumb, and you know, then 1:47:49.560 --> 1:47:51.880 then you you get to this point where kind of 1:47:52.000 --> 1:47:58.120 this thing that was pretty wild and pretty um pretty 1:47:58.160 --> 1:48:00.639 free for a while has to a degree to which 1:48:00.640 --> 1:48:03.040 it has to become professionalized so that people can know 1:48:03.479 --> 1:48:05.760 who is full of shit and who is not, and 1:48:05.840 --> 1:48:08.559 like who has a track record and who doesn't. UM. 1:48:08.720 --> 1:48:10.479 And I'll go back to in terms of like how 1:48:10.520 --> 1:48:12.760 you can tell if something is real osent kind of 1:48:12.840 --> 1:48:16.599 the the earliest big case study of like ocent researchers 1:48:16.640 --> 1:48:19.960 breaking something is proving that the Russian government shot down 1:48:20.200 --> 1:48:22.680 MH seventeen, this Malaysian air flight over Ukraine when the 1:48:22.720 --> 1:48:24.920 Russians were blaming the Ukrainians for it. And the way 1:48:24.960 --> 1:48:27.599 they did it is there were pictures in the wreckage 1:48:27.680 --> 1:48:30.160 of the aircraft that were taken, numerous ones that showed 1:48:30.200 --> 1:48:33.519 pieces of the missile. Some of those pictures had numbers 1:48:33.600 --> 1:48:37.519 on them. All weaponry, military grade weaponry has serial numbers 1:48:37.560 --> 1:48:39.720 and ship and using those serial numbers, people were able 1:48:39.760 --> 1:48:42.240 to track it back to the Buck missile battery that 1:48:42.320 --> 1:48:45.400 the mistil had been on. And because the Buck missile 1:48:45.439 --> 1:48:47.960 battery also has like numbers and ship, you can trace 1:48:48.040 --> 1:48:50.519 its progress. They figured out what base had originated at, 1:48:50.840 --> 1:48:53.400 and then using a mix of like videos civilians had 1:48:53.439 --> 1:48:55.400 taken and like other stuff that were able to kind 1:48:55.400 --> 1:48:57.800 of trace the path of this Buck missile as it 1:48:57.920 --> 1:49:00.760 left Russia and entered Ukraine and then found it in 1:49:00.800 --> 1:49:03.360 a village like a video evidence that just some taxi 1:49:03.479 --> 1:49:05.719 driver was literally a guy who had like a fucking 1:49:05.800 --> 1:49:08.479 car camera on and he just uploaded footage from like 1:49:08.600 --> 1:49:11.439 driving around town. You see in this town next to 1:49:11.520 --> 1:49:14.439 where the plane was shot down, the Buck missile launcher 1:49:14.520 --> 1:49:17.839 that has the missile that shot down MH seventeen. Driving 1:49:17.920 --> 1:49:20.200 through that town the day that the plane is shot down, 1:49:20.280 --> 1:49:22.320 It's like, oh, okay, well there you go, and and 1:49:22.520 --> 1:49:24.760 and again. It's the thing in terms of like how 1:49:24.800 --> 1:49:27.519 to tell if something is valid ocent. You can track 1:49:27.640 --> 1:49:30.599 all of that back. Every stage of it makes sense, 1:49:30.720 --> 1:49:33.639 every stage of it is repeatable to a lay person. 1:49:34.040 --> 1:49:37.120 And um, and and if they're good, they're gonna demonstrate 1:49:37.200 --> 1:49:40.280 their work as they tell this, as they like show 1:49:40.400 --> 1:49:43.840 here's the steps that I took. Um, they're never gonna 1:49:43.920 --> 1:49:47.439 just say here's a video of two army vehicles. Look 1:49:47.560 --> 1:49:51.120 troop movements. You know. Yeah, okay, we're gonna be getting 1:49:51.120 --> 1:49:54.240 into who she is after these ads. O oh um. 1:49:55.000 --> 1:49:59.880 You know, when I'm thinking about shooting down civilian airliners, 1:50:00.479 --> 1:50:06.880 I wish I had gold in my basement. I was wondering, Yeah, 1:50:08.640 --> 1:50:12.360 we're gonna be It came around next year we're launching 1:50:12.439 --> 1:50:16.440 our first tribute sche exclusively using Gold as the projectile 1:50:16.800 --> 1:50:18.840 and the the end the end mission, by the end 1:50:18.960 --> 1:50:20.960 is to set up next to the airport and shoot 1:50:21.000 --> 1:50:25.280 down as many planes as possible using the gold tribute. Wow, Garrison, 1:50:25.479 --> 1:50:29.880 Garrison Davis threatening international air travel. I hope your passport 1:50:29.960 --> 1:50:33.840 comes in soon, buddy, before about this in the State Department. 1:50:36.720 --> 1:50:40.519 Here's here's the bads. I just got my my gold 1:50:40.560 --> 1:50:43.040 purchase flag. I don't know what's going on, but it's 1:50:43.080 --> 1:50:46.200 not letting me buy anymore, so I I think they're 1:50:46.240 --> 1:50:50.800 onto me. Wow. Um yeah, that's that's on. Listeners. We 1:50:50.880 --> 1:50:52.680 need you to just buy all of the gold you 1:50:52.800 --> 1:50:55.680 can and mail it to Garrison so that Garrison can 1:50:56.240 --> 1:51:03.280 fight climate change with his gold powered anti aircraft catapult. So, Chris, 1:51:03.520 --> 1:51:07.800 how's it going? Okay? So okay. So the thing that 1:51:07.880 --> 1:51:10.439 also should include people in like that something was going 1:51:10.520 --> 1:51:13.439 wrong is if literally any of the people who were 1:51:13.439 --> 1:51:16.599 reachtween Jennifer Zing had like literally just googled her name 1:51:17.240 --> 1:51:19.439 because it's okay. So if you if you do this, 1:51:19.560 --> 1:51:21.040 what you find out is that she is a self 1:51:21.120 --> 1:51:24.200 proclaimed human rights activists and journalists who writes for like 1:51:24.280 --> 1:51:27.240 really weird right wing outlets in Japan and also writes 1:51:27.240 --> 1:51:32.960 for the Epoch Times. Now, finally we could pull back 1:51:33.000 --> 1:51:34.960 the curtain and reveal what has been going on this 1:51:35.200 --> 1:51:38.080 entire time, which is that, and then this is yeah, 1:51:38.439 --> 1:51:40.479 what what's actually going on here is that Jennifer Zang 1:51:40.600 --> 1:51:42.400 is part of the Fallen Gong, which is like a 1:51:42.640 --> 1:51:45.439 very very weird right wing Chinese cult. She was like 1:51:45.800 --> 1:51:48.160 like she like had to leave China because she went 1:51:48.240 --> 1:51:51.200 to write a book about them, like this, this whole 1:51:51.280 --> 1:51:53.880 thing has been a food on Falling Gong off the 1:51:54.880 --> 1:52:00.479 time there we go back, okay, good, so yeah, okay, 1:52:00.479 --> 1:52:01.840 so people who don't know what the call and going 1:52:02.000 --> 1:52:05.080 is there they were, okay, So it's the thing that 1:52:05.160 --> 1:52:06.639 kind of emerged out of a bunch of these sort 1:52:06.640 --> 1:52:10.000 of like g meditation practices. But in late eighties and nineties, 1:52:10.080 --> 1:52:12.320 like the fall and Gong, it turns into this like 1:52:12.439 --> 1:52:15.800 this full scare will agist cult that's like and as 1:52:15.920 --> 1:52:18.760 as as a CCP like increasingly sort of represses them, 1:52:19.200 --> 1:52:23.519 they become like increasingly anti communist. Um you've they're they're 1:52:23.600 --> 1:52:25.920 like literally like you cannot be a Chinese person in 1:52:25.960 --> 1:52:28.160 the US and not running too these people fucking everywhere. 1:52:28.160 --> 1:52:30.360 They're just like march through China town. I mean, there's 1:52:30.439 --> 1:52:35.639 billboards for their fucking music show thing like everywhere around 1:52:35.760 --> 1:52:37.880 fucking where I live, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah that 1:52:37.960 --> 1:52:39.400 they have they have a show called Shen You and 1:52:39.479 --> 1:52:42.360 like I'm betting mostly yeah that's yeah, that's the China 1:52:42.439 --> 1:52:49.479 before communism. Ye yeah, and everywhere everywhere it is. The 1:52:49.600 --> 1:52:52.320 actual show is wild. Yeah, yeah, they have. They have 1:52:52.360 --> 1:52:54.080 a huge network in the U. S. And like the 1:52:54.160 --> 1:52:57.080 actual thing that it is, it's like it's mostly like 1:52:57.160 --> 1:53:00.000 China for companies and the actual things. This is weird combination, 1:53:00.040 --> 1:53:02.400 you know, like half asked Buddhism and Taoism and then 1:53:02.479 --> 1:53:09.280 like absolutely insane anti evolution ship like Christian Buddhism as well. 1:53:09.400 --> 1:53:12.639 It's like this, there's a whole bunch of weirds. It's 1:53:12.680 --> 1:53:16.240 not just like it's bigger, well, it's it's more Buddhist, 1:53:16.360 --> 1:53:18.559 but yeah, it's it's it's very it's very it's it's 1:53:18.600 --> 1:53:23.080 a very very weird cult thing and like Times, yeah, 1:53:23.120 --> 1:53:29.240 the fascist newspaper. Yeah, although weirdly weirdly the Epoch Times. Okay, 1:53:29.280 --> 1:53:30.840 so this is this is a part of the story 1:53:30.920 --> 1:53:33.920 that's very odd, which is that I'm about sure at 1:53:33.920 --> 1:53:37.120 that original So so the original account that did this, 1:53:37.439 --> 1:53:41.599 that um that did the original conspiracy that the New 1:53:41.680 --> 1:53:44.519 Highland Vision thing. It was like a pretty new account 1:53:44.520 --> 1:53:46.160 and had a bunch of followers and it just vanished, 1:53:47.120 --> 1:53:49.080 and there were a bunch of other accounts, like tiny 1:53:49.120 --> 1:53:51.840 accounts that were also New Highland Visions. I'm about eight 1:53:52.000 --> 1:53:53.720 to nine sure, but that that was a fall and 1:53:53.800 --> 1:53:57.840 Gong thing. But weirdly, the Epoch Times doesn't really touch this. 1:53:59.640 --> 1:54:03.200 It's it's it's it's it's very weird. Um. They're like, 1:54:03.280 --> 1:54:07.439 I'm gonna read a passage from from the Epoch Times 1:54:07.479 --> 1:54:08.640 and it's like epok Times in as so far as 1:54:08.640 --> 1:54:11.120 to talk about it, are citing x Indian officials talking 1:54:11.160 --> 1:54:14.080 about it. But like here, here, here's a pack. Here's 1:54:14.120 --> 1:54:17.200 like a quote from a passage of like the thing 1:54:17.240 --> 1:54:20.439 they're writing about, like a potential like stuff like okay 1:54:21.600 --> 1:54:24.160 Yang noted in this article that Lee was promoted to 1:54:24.280 --> 1:54:27.559 Commander of Northern Theater Command in nineteen sorry in two 1:54:27.600 --> 1:54:30.519 thous seventeen by she and that Lee led the formation 1:54:30.560 --> 1:54:33.280 of flags in the military parade on the anniversary marking 1:54:33.320 --> 1:54:37.040 the CCPs takeover of China, which shows that she values him. 1:54:37.240 --> 1:54:40.320 Like this is just like the most boring asked China 1:54:40.360 --> 1:54:43.200 watchers ship I've ever seen like that. The Epoch times 1:54:43.240 --> 1:54:45.920 didn't like cover this as like like they did. They 1:54:45.920 --> 1:54:47.880 didn't do the like the thing that all the rest 1:54:47.920 --> 1:54:49.560 of all long people were doing, which is this sort 1:54:49.600 --> 1:54:52.000 of like, oh my god, there's a coup like they 1:54:52.200 --> 1:54:54.800 just did. That kind of makes sense because if they're 1:54:54.840 --> 1:54:56.600 on the inside in any way, they kind of know 1:54:56.760 --> 1:54:58.800 it's billshit, so they don't want to kind of ruin 1:54:59.000 --> 1:55:01.760 some of their reputation, at least in like the far 1:55:01.920 --> 1:55:04.040 right in the States. So it makes sense that they 1:55:04.080 --> 1:55:06.920 would only cover it in the extent of them quoting 1:55:07.360 --> 1:55:10.840 like other people, so that they're actually not actually giving 1:55:10.840 --> 1:55:14.080 their kind of definitive opinion on it. Yeah, it's interesting, 1:55:14.360 --> 1:55:16.040 and I think also because I mean think, I think 1:55:16.040 --> 1:55:17.320 the thing is that they also knew that this thing 1:55:17.320 --> 1:55:19.280 has limited shelf life because the moment that she should 1:55:19.280 --> 1:55:21.920 being reappears in public everyone knows is bullshit. Yep. But 1:55:22.080 --> 1:55:25.440 before then, So the new version of this of this 1:55:25.560 --> 1:55:27.840 conspiracy cost is around like four things. One is the 1:55:27.880 --> 1:55:30.680 sort of military convoys going to Beijing thing there too, 1:55:30.760 --> 1:55:32.560 There's I guess there's five because there's also technically that 1:55:32.560 --> 1:55:34.400 there's there's the image of the explosion that they claim 1:55:34.400 --> 1:55:36.400 as in Beijing. That's like not in Beijing. It was 1:55:36.440 --> 1:55:39.640 from like seven years ago. Um, there's there's the they're 1:55:39.760 --> 1:55:42.200 the big The big one is there's this image going 1:55:42.320 --> 1:55:44.800 around that is like partially it's fake, and then people 1:55:44.840 --> 1:55:46.280 try to do on sand on it and it sucks. 1:55:46.880 --> 1:55:50.720 Um is they there's this thing that that's like Beijing 1:55:50.800 --> 1:55:55.480 as canceled its flights and trains, and there's like there's 1:55:55.520 --> 1:55:59.000 the original pictures of it are fake, right, and then 1:55:59.160 --> 1:56:01.600 people try to go on flight trackers to like check 1:56:01.640 --> 1:56:03.960 if it's happening, but they don't know how to use 1:56:04.000 --> 1:56:07.240 flight trackers, so they look at the planes are like, 1:56:07.320 --> 1:56:08.880 oh my god, has been canceled. If you look at 1:56:08.920 --> 1:56:11.160 the actual map, there's just a bunch of planes over Beijing, 1:56:11.480 --> 1:56:13.480 which is the thing you would expect there to be happening. 1:56:13.520 --> 1:56:14.920 And they were like and it was one of those 1:56:14.920 --> 1:56:17.320 normal things where like like the actual thing that was 1:56:17.360 --> 1:56:19.640 happening was there were there were some cancellations, but like 1:56:19.760 --> 1:56:22.280 that's because flights get canceled. Yeah, Like it was just 1:56:22.280 --> 1:56:25.000 completely normal flight cancelation stuff or like it wasn't even 1:56:25.040 --> 1:56:27.760 like asistically significant number of which is regular flight cancelations 1:56:27.800 --> 1:56:30.080 and then like planes that had landed but people were 1:56:30.080 --> 1:56:32.600 being like they were canceled. It's like no, like they 1:56:32.720 --> 1:56:36.040 got there. Yeah, so that happened. There was a lot 1:56:36.120 --> 1:56:39.640 of people trying to like do research stuff and just failing. Um, 1:56:39.960 --> 1:56:42.440 there's there's this whole thing about she's being like missing 1:56:42.520 --> 1:56:46.000 this really important military meeting, which like he actually he 1:56:46.080 --> 1:56:48.440 genuinely wasn't there, but he wasn't there because he was 1:56:48.520 --> 1:56:51.800 quarantining and he like sent he sent like a message 1:56:51.800 --> 1:56:54.920 to it. It was interesting because the like the Epoch 1:56:54.960 --> 1:56:57.800 Times actually reports on that like that that passages that 1:56:57.800 --> 1:57:00.160 I read about, like the weird the like people trying 1:57:00.160 --> 1:57:02.160 to figure out who's holding a flags you get promoted 1:57:02.200 --> 1:57:06.360 like that that that's about that meeting. Um. But yeah, 1:57:06.360 --> 1:57:07.800 and then then the last thing it's just like where 1:57:07.880 --> 1:57:10.240 is she jumping? Like blah blah blah blah. If he's fine, 1:57:10.280 --> 1:57:13.040 why isn't he? And this stuff like it's it's especially 1:57:13.080 --> 1:57:15.520 the flights and the convoy stuff like starts spreading like wildfire, 1:57:16.040 --> 1:57:18.720 and the thing that happens that like this thing should 1:57:18.760 --> 1:57:21.600 have died, like there shouldn't have been enough stuff to 1:57:21.640 --> 1:57:24.800 keep it going, but it hit b JP Twitter, which 1:57:24.960 --> 1:57:28.960 is like so like so the b j P is 1:57:29.080 --> 1:57:31.320 is basically like it's it's the fascist party that controls 1:57:31.360 --> 1:57:37.880 India there like like really fanatical like Hindu extremists, right wingers, Um, 1:57:38.200 --> 1:57:44.520 they hate Muslims. They suck there, Like I would, I 1:57:44.600 --> 1:57:46.560 would argue I think there's a decent argument for this 1:57:46.760 --> 1:57:48.760 that this is the closest thing to like a conventional 1:57:48.800 --> 1:57:52.800 twenty century fascist party that exists on Earth. We've talked 1:57:52.800 --> 1:57:55.600 about the and the and the epic times on here before, 1:57:55.840 --> 1:57:57.880 or at least on pastards. I I know, I've talked 1:57:57.880 --> 1:58:01.640 about them a decent amount of christ you have the Yeah, 1:58:01.960 --> 1:58:03.280 they're kind of they're kind of one of the one 1:58:03.280 --> 1:58:06.920 of the recurring characters. Um. Yeah. But what what's what's 1:58:06.920 --> 1:58:09.480 interesting here is is is that one of their ops, 1:58:09.960 --> 1:58:13.840 like it just the op doesn't really go towards sort 1:58:13.880 --> 1:58:15.800 of like American right way Twitter. It goes towards Indian 1:58:15.880 --> 1:58:19.480 right wing Twitter, which that which which is notable. Yeah. Yeah. Well, 1:58:19.480 --> 1:58:21.240 And and the reason I think this is a lot 1:58:21.240 --> 1:58:23.160 of this is happening is that, like, so do you 1:58:23.240 --> 1:58:24.920 have everyone remember a couple of years back when like 1:58:24.960 --> 1:58:26.760 a bunch of Indian and Chinese soldiers like be be 1:58:26.840 --> 1:58:28.880 each other to death in like the mountains with sticks. 1:58:29.160 --> 1:58:31.880 It was pretty cool. Yeah. Yeah, so like this is 1:58:31.920 --> 1:58:34.760 like a thing that there's there's been border disputes between 1:58:34.840 --> 1:58:39.680 China and India like since India was created basically like um, 1:58:40.040 --> 1:58:43.360 they they fought like okay, the the war that people 1:58:43.480 --> 1:58:46.040 want to talk about the least in the nineties two 1:58:46.080 --> 1:58:49.920 Sino Indian War where Mao just kind of like invaded 1:58:50.440 --> 1:58:52.600 a bunch of India and just like absolutely kicked the 1:58:52.600 --> 1:58:54.080 ship out of the Indian army. And this has been 1:58:54.080 --> 1:58:56.680 a sort of like there's this sort of like a 1:58:56.760 --> 1:59:01.040 recurring in like Indian nationalist like bug bear thing where 1:59:01.120 --> 1:59:03.520 like I mean when when border attentions flare up, like 1:59:03.760 --> 1:59:06.800 India people, you get a bunch of like really terribly 1:59:06.800 --> 1:59:09.680 animated things of like an Indian soldier with a giant 1:59:09.760 --> 1:59:11.840 staff like beating the shout of a dragon or something. 1:59:12.320 --> 1:59:14.440 This is just sort of like something that happens on 1:59:14.480 --> 1:59:19.720 like Indian right wing Twitter and Jordan Peterson ship. Yeah. Literally, 1:59:19.960 --> 1:59:22.560 like it's it's really funny because you get two of 1:59:22.680 --> 1:59:25.840 the like absolutely funniest Like you get the sort of 1:59:25.920 --> 1:59:28.520 like the Chinese like wolf warrior like accounts and the 1:59:28.640 --> 1:59:30.600 like b JP people going at it and it's just 1:59:31.000 --> 1:59:33.160 unbelievably funny to watch because they're too like two of 1:59:33.280 --> 1:59:37.880 the most like absolutely psychotic, like insane nationalists in the world, 1:59:37.920 --> 1:59:39.240 and you just you just gonna watch them fight for 1:59:39.280 --> 1:59:42.440 a bit and it's it's a good time. Unfortunately, like 1:59:43.280 --> 1:59:48.320 so these guys pick it up and it rapidly like okay, 1:59:48.560 --> 1:59:50.160 one of the things like that, there's there's right wing 1:59:50.280 --> 1:59:58.400 Indian astrologer was going to get overthrown stopping that's that's 1:59:58.400 --> 2:00:03.840 one of the words to this is ever Wait, that's 2:00:03.920 --> 2:00:06.720 kind of interesting to me. That's kind of interesting a 2:00:06.920 --> 2:00:11.480 right wing Indian astrology. There's a lot of people who 2:00:11.480 --> 2:00:16.040 are into astrologya and specifically a lot of that is 2:00:16.320 --> 2:00:18.920 very influential in the rs S, which is kind of 2:00:19.000 --> 2:00:22.400 the Indian fascist movement that is backing Mody, who's the 2:00:22.440 --> 2:00:24.840 guy who runs the country right now, Who's yeah, it's 2:00:24.920 --> 2:00:28.160 it's not it's not weird that that that that's happened. 2:00:28.240 --> 2:00:31.280 Given the context of Indian policy, it's not surprising to 2:00:31.400 --> 2:00:34.280 put it sucks. It does suck. It's for sure sucks. 2:00:34.440 --> 2:00:36.840 We can say that for certain I wonder what sign 2:00:36.920 --> 2:00:45.320 he is? Am I right? Guys fucking liberals? The energy 2:00:45.360 --> 2:00:49.920 actually so superbar in some swammy who was a guy? 2:00:50.120 --> 2:00:53.280 Who was this guy was a six term b JP MP, 2:00:53.760 --> 2:00:55.560 He was a he was a this man was a 2:00:55.680 --> 2:00:59.920 government minister. At one point starts tweeting about this whole 2:01:00.080 --> 2:01:02.920 thing and then like it just it's just like this 2:01:03.080 --> 2:01:05.960 thing just like goes through the actual Indian media sphere 2:01:06.000 --> 2:01:09.480 like fucking wildfire. Um. The z News, which is an 2:01:09.480 --> 2:01:12.240 outlet founded by the deceased right wing media like in 2:01:12.320 --> 2:01:15.800 Indian media billionaire Supross Chandra, who are rest and pissed 2:01:15.800 --> 2:01:18.800 by the way, died in August, runs a story called 2:01:19.040 --> 2:01:22.600 China Coup Beijing hiding something big jij and ping in 2:01:22.720 --> 2:01:27.280 deep trouble what rumors suggest. Like The fucking Economic Times, 2:01:27.640 --> 2:01:30.480 this is the second largest English language business paper in 2:01:30.560 --> 2:01:34.400 the world, runs a story titled quote Chinese President ge 2:01:34.560 --> 2:01:36.960 removed from power in a coup. Here's what we know 2:01:37.120 --> 2:01:40.520 so far is nuts. Like I mentioned this at the beginning, 2:01:40.560 --> 2:01:41.760 like what part of part of the reason this goes 2:01:41.840 --> 2:01:44.920 viral is that Republic media network like like like a 2:01:45.240 --> 2:01:47.960 probably India's largest TV network is just just runs with 2:01:48.040 --> 2:01:52.160 the fucking runs with it as a story and well 2:01:52.200 --> 2:01:56.680 it's yeah, it's like it's like there. I guess the 2:01:56.720 --> 2:01:58.360 way I would describe it as like they don't like 2:01:58.520 --> 2:02:01.919 Fox News has like a really really elaborate like like systems, 2:02:01.960 --> 2:02:03.480 because they've been doing this for ages where they have 2:02:03.520 --> 2:02:07.280 a very very elaborate system for like running like running 2:02:07.280 --> 2:02:09.600 a dumb thing from Twitter like and turning it into 2:02:09.680 --> 2:02:13.080 like turning into like a package story. Uh that this 2:02:13.280 --> 2:02:15.080 is not what's happening here. They are just live like 2:02:15.240 --> 2:02:17.400 live reporting from Twitter. And I think this is I 2:02:17.400 --> 2:02:20.640 don't know, like I think it's like it's it's it's 2:02:20.720 --> 2:02:23.040 it's a degree of laziness that like you see this 2:02:23.120 --> 2:02:25.360 in American journalism a lot too, where like people just 2:02:25.480 --> 2:02:27.720 literally report, like report Twitter like things that happened on 2:02:27.760 --> 2:02:29.680 Twitter like this. This this is how. This is how 2:02:29.720 --> 2:02:32.160 like gobblin mode became a thing. Like there's a lot 2:02:32.200 --> 2:02:33.480 of stories that are just it's just looking to Twitter 2:02:33.600 --> 2:02:36.280 and they're basically doing this. And part of the everything 2:02:36.280 --> 2:02:37.840 that's going on here is that, like you know, so 2:02:38.680 --> 2:02:42.040 like Indian media has just become increasingly right wing over 2:02:42.080 --> 2:02:44.440 the past decade, and they've gotten like increasingly more fascists 2:02:44.440 --> 2:02:45.560 and when you and you know, the everything is like 2:02:45.600 --> 2:02:50.320 fascists are incompetent and like this is basically the result 2:02:50.400 --> 2:02:52.880 of the sort of hollowing out of the Indian media sphere, 2:02:53.000 --> 2:02:55.840 is that these like Matt, like these absolutely titanic like 2:02:55.960 --> 2:02:58.360 cable and news networks are running this just like like 2:02:58.680 --> 2:03:01.600 stuff that is so bull ship that like like the 2:03:01.720 --> 2:03:05.440 fucking newsman, Like there was a news Max anchor, Grant 2:03:05.560 --> 2:03:08.520 stitching Field, which was a news Max host like has 2:03:08.560 --> 2:03:10.920 like a video about this, and the video both starts 2:03:11.000 --> 2:03:13.600 and ends with him going this is probably bullshit, and 2:03:13.640 --> 2:03:16.280 then in the middle there's like some incomprehensible thing that 2:03:16.400 --> 2:03:20.040 he like half read an Ebuk Times article didn't understand. 2:03:20.120 --> 2:03:23.680 He starts ranting about like the general of the Northern 2:03:23.760 --> 2:03:25.920 War who has just been relieved of his duties as 2:03:25.920 --> 2:03:29.280 a direct quote, by the way, absolutely nonsense, Like yeah, 2:03:29.320 --> 2:03:31.120 but like even even those guys were kind of like 2:03:31.280 --> 2:03:34.320 this is whack, like we we can't run with this. 2:03:34.480 --> 2:03:37.320 But that like the sort of like like the the 2:03:39.360 --> 2:03:43.120 sort of like Indian fascists people are like so incredibly 2:03:43.200 --> 2:03:45.840 desperate for just like any like like even more so 2:03:46.000 --> 2:03:47.920 than the American right and more are desperate for just 2:03:48.040 --> 2:03:50.160 like here's an anti China story we can just sort 2:03:50.160 --> 2:03:52.400 of like throw out because of the sort of increased 2:03:52.400 --> 2:03:55.920 tensions around the border, etc. This stuff just this stuff 2:03:56.000 --> 2:04:00.600 just explodes. Um And eventually you get like that the 2:04:00.720 --> 2:04:04.800 Indian media outlets who are like still actual like outlets 2:04:05.040 --> 2:04:07.480 who are like, hey, guys, this is nonsense, like the 2:04:07.600 --> 2:04:09.920 Hindu stand Times and the Tribune and write stories that 2:04:10.000 --> 2:04:13.880 are like really, like are you guys kidding me? Like 2:04:14.000 --> 2:04:19.680 come on, this is like obviously fake. Um yeah, and 2:04:19.800 --> 2:04:21.440 and and and at certain point, like this whole thing 2:04:21.480 --> 2:04:23.240 is it's sort of like phase, but it has this 2:04:23.720 --> 2:04:25.560 there's there's no there's. But then there's a sort of 2:04:25.640 --> 2:04:27.920 second wave of it, which is there are a bunch 2:04:27.960 --> 2:04:32.560 of people who are like weird like Chinese dissident quote 2:04:32.640 --> 2:04:35.520 unquote people but who aren't like who aren't following Gong, 2:04:35.640 --> 2:04:38.560 people who like looked at this and we're like, this 2:04:38.720 --> 2:04:40.600 is obviously a lie. I'm not going to jump in 2:04:40.640 --> 2:04:42.920 on this leave of the bulshit. But then we're like, okay, 2:04:42.960 --> 2:04:46.280 I've got a second layer of this. Um there there 2:04:46.400 --> 2:04:49.560 there's there's someone Dr Lee Magnyan who's like she's like 2:04:49.600 --> 2:04:52.640 an old school like COVID bio, like bioweapon, like lab 2:04:52.760 --> 2:04:57.920 truther person um. She was like okay, okay, no, no, no, 2:04:58.080 --> 2:05:00.560 hold on, hold up, what's happening here? That this whole 2:05:00.680 --> 2:05:04.960 discourse was a she jumping op to distract everyone from 2:05:05.000 --> 2:05:07.240 the the alliance with Putin that he's going to announce 2:05:07.600 --> 2:05:12.680 at the party Conquerors. Yeah, and like like he needs 2:05:12.720 --> 2:05:14.760 to like secretly cover up the fact that he's going 2:05:14.800 --> 2:05:17.480 to create an alliance to destroy the free world. It's 2:05:17.600 --> 2:05:20.280 just like it's it's it's a real it's a it's 2:05:20.320 --> 2:05:23.040 a real circus of just like like all like you 2:05:23.200 --> 2:05:24.760 you gotta see like this whole sort of second and 2:05:24.880 --> 2:05:27.200 third waves of media grifters like looking at this story 2:05:27.320 --> 2:05:29.160 of being like okay, how do we spin this out? 2:05:29.480 --> 2:05:31.880 And it's I don't know, like I I feel like 2:05:31.920 --> 2:05:34.240 that this is a part of like this part of Twitter, 2:05:34.520 --> 2:05:37.640 like the sort of like it's just this kind of 2:05:37.720 --> 2:05:41.480 there's a kind of intersection of like weird Chinese cranks 2:05:42.120 --> 2:05:45.680 and like China Watch or Twitter where you get a 2:05:45.760 --> 2:05:49.480 bunch of these very weird things. But yeah, I've talked 2:05:49.520 --> 2:05:51.200 about this, but like the thing's interesting to me is 2:05:51.240 --> 2:05:52.880 it's like the sent to which the right doesn't pick 2:05:52.920 --> 2:05:54.040 this up, like this is the kind of thing like 2:05:54.120 --> 2:05:56.360 you would expect like Alex Jones to be talking about, 2:05:56.840 --> 2:05:59.520 and especially I can tell like Alex Jones doesn't cover 2:05:59.720 --> 2:06:05.040 like fucking Bucky Barnes, like e talks about it like briefly, 2:06:05.600 --> 2:06:08.080 like on like but like while Alex has like walked 2:06:08.120 --> 2:06:11.000 out of the room, talks about it for like five 2:06:11.080 --> 2:06:14.200 seconds and then stops, and I was like, really, like 2:06:14.280 --> 2:06:18.360 Alex Jones is gonna cover this, like uh, maybe it's 2:06:18.400 --> 2:06:22.360 It's possible I missed part of it. Paying is is 2:06:22.640 --> 2:06:26.960 if like less secure in power and can be overthrown 2:06:27.200 --> 2:06:29.840 by other elements in the Chinese government than China is 2:06:29.920 --> 2:06:32.400 kind of less scary that Alex Jones. Ten's Yeah, that's 2:06:33.040 --> 2:06:36.280 so that's might be part of it. Yeah, we'll give 2:06:36.360 --> 2:06:39.000 him some time. Maybe he'll get on this later. Yeah, 2:06:39.040 --> 2:06:41.960 I don't know. He's got a lot going on right now. Yeah. 2:06:43.960 --> 2:06:45.800 Oh god, Okay, So the last thing I want to 2:06:45.840 --> 2:06:48.640 talk about is like, so I've been saying I'm talking 2:06:48.640 --> 2:06:52.000 about China watchers this whole time. There's like basically there's 2:06:52.040 --> 2:06:56.600 kind of a academic careers last profession like in the us. 2:06:56.760 --> 2:06:58.880 That's like being a China watcher. And so you get 2:06:58.920 --> 2:07:01.920 like some internationally degree, you get some like cultural studies degree, 2:07:01.960 --> 2:07:03.000 and you go to China for a bit and you 2:07:03.080 --> 2:07:05.440 come back and then like your job is to write 2:07:05.480 --> 2:07:10.240 about like the inscrutable Oriental mind. And I they're like 2:07:10.320 --> 2:07:11.560 one or two of these people are like a couple 2:07:11.600 --> 2:07:13.360 of these people who are like have some respect for 2:07:14.640 --> 2:07:19.640 real at large. I literally cannot with these people. Um, well, 2:07:19.800 --> 2:07:21.600 so what did the Guardian writing an article about this 2:07:21.720 --> 2:07:23.480 later on? And they're like yeah, because this is not happening. 2:07:23.800 --> 2:07:26.200 But the guy they quote writes in a Twitter threat, 2:07:26.280 --> 2:07:29.920 I'm just gonna read this tweet because I Jesus Christ. 2:07:30.880 --> 2:07:33.560 A palace coup in a time of political pressuurization is 2:07:33.600 --> 2:07:38.200 not implausible. Gorbachevan Yeltson were detained during the USSR Russia 2:07:38.320 --> 2:07:42.040 transition period. A coup is not an anathema to China either. 2:07:42.640 --> 2:07:47.520 Emperor kuang Hu was arrested by dowager Empress Sishi when 2:07:47.560 --> 2:07:50.080 he attempted reforms that, by the way, the same the 2:07:50.120 --> 2:07:52.360 second thing he's talking about that is from like I 2:07:52.400 --> 2:07:57.800 think it's eighteen nine, is the last coup he can find, 2:07:58.240 --> 2:08:00.840 Like you can just say ship like there's a ti 2:08:00.960 --> 2:08:02.720 like you you would you could literally say whatever the 2:08:02.720 --> 2:08:05.040 funk you want, and people will be like, oh yeah, no, no, no, 2:08:06.160 --> 2:08:08.680 this coup. That is literally two political there are there 2:08:08.720 --> 2:08:12.800 are two entire political systems that China has had between 2:08:13.120 --> 2:08:17.560 right now and the time that the emperor's regent like 2:08:18.200 --> 2:08:23.680 overthrew the the emperor to stop, like just just come on, 2:08:24.760 --> 2:08:29.160 like why why why why are people allowed to say this? 2:08:29.320 --> 2:08:31.200 Like why why are people allowed to go oh yeah, 2:08:31.560 --> 2:08:34.440 Gorba Trough and Yelton got cooed. So that means that 2:08:34.480 --> 2:08:37.800 there can be a coup in China like this this 2:08:37.960 --> 2:08:40.480 this is one of the experts, Like I just like 2:08:40.520 --> 2:08:43.360 like one of these every single every single one of 2:08:43.360 --> 2:08:45.240 these articles has this passage where they're like, oh, well, 2:08:45.280 --> 2:08:47.080 part of the reason why this happening is because the 2:08:47.240 --> 2:08:50.840 Chinese government is so unbelievably not transparent, and I'm like, no, like, 2:08:51.320 --> 2:08:52.920 part of the reasons this is happening is because you 2:08:53.000 --> 2:08:56.040 guys just literally will say bullshit, which means that people 2:08:56.040 --> 2:08:58.440 will just believe like literally you can just say anything 2:08:58.440 --> 2:09:00.960 about China. You can say it like it's all like 2:09:01.080 --> 2:09:04.200 it all comes down once again as every problem in 2:09:04.240 --> 2:09:06.280 the world does to the twenty far hour news cycle. 2:09:06.360 --> 2:09:08.800 Where is this bullshit? Sure, but like got to fill 2:09:08.880 --> 2:09:11.320 air time. It's happening right now. People are talking about it, 2:09:11.360 --> 2:09:13.160 so we get to talk about it. We don't have 2:09:13.280 --> 2:09:15.240 to say it's true. We can just like talk about 2:09:15.320 --> 2:09:18.360 it and then we filled some airtime and uh, you know, 2:09:18.560 --> 2:09:21.680 we keep making money. It's good and now we're talking 2:09:21.720 --> 2:09:25.600 about it. Yeah. And it's like, if it's a topic 2:09:25.680 --> 2:09:29.160 that people are not like, I'm gonna say something, then 2:09:29.240 --> 2:09:31.200 add a caveat. If it's a topic that people are 2:09:31.520 --> 2:09:34.920 not very knowledgeable about, like the inner workings of Chinese politics, 2:09:35.120 --> 2:09:36.680 then they're going to be easier to believe it now 2:09:37.000 --> 2:09:40.120 even now. Obviously the strategy can work even for topics 2:09:40.200 --> 2:09:43.960 that people are knowledgeable about sometimes um, but especially in 2:09:44.080 --> 2:09:48.280 something related to like foreign countries that most Americans know 2:09:48.480 --> 2:09:50.840 very little about, then yeah, that's super easy to believe. 2:09:50.960 --> 2:09:53.640 Like remember a few years ago when everyone convinced themselves 2:09:54.200 --> 2:10:01.840 that uh, Kim jongoon died. Yeah, yeah, because because people 2:10:02.040 --> 2:10:05.080 because people are really to believe something. It's yeah, it's 2:10:05.160 --> 2:10:06.880 like like they're there, there's there's there's a thing I've 2:10:06.880 --> 2:10:08.120 been like I've run into a lot where like that 2:10:08.200 --> 2:10:09.880 there's there's a bunch of like there's a bunch of 2:10:09.920 --> 2:10:13.320 people in the American left who's like basically and I 2:10:13.520 --> 2:10:15.760 don't even really know how they came to believe this, 2:10:15.880 --> 2:10:18.400 because this isn't something that the CCP even says about itself, 2:10:18.920 --> 2:10:20.760 but like they've they've come to believe that China has 2:10:20.840 --> 2:10:22.680 universal health care, which it doesn't. They used to have 2:10:22.800 --> 2:10:24.360 one and then they got rid of it, like they 2:10:24.600 --> 2:10:27.360 literally dismantled the universal health there system. Like there are 2:10:27.360 --> 2:10:29.320 people who believe that like like China has like a 2:10:29.480 --> 2:10:31.760 right to housing and that everyone in China just gets 2:10:31.800 --> 2:10:34.320 a house and and like like this is all of 2:10:34.400 --> 2:10:38.200 this ship that's like it just has like it's it's 2:10:38.240 --> 2:10:40.760 so completely uncoupled from reality that like I can't I 2:10:40.840 --> 2:10:43.000 can't even trace the source to where they got this stuff. 2:10:43.000 --> 2:10:45.400 But it's really easy to spread because yeah, it's just 2:10:45.400 --> 2:10:48.040 like nobody knows any especially like yeah, it's it's a 2:10:48.080 --> 2:10:50.720 foreign country, nobody knows anything about it, and you can 2:10:50.840 --> 2:10:53.120 and like the actual people who are experts will just 2:10:53.400 --> 2:10:56.800 like start spouting shit about how it's plausible there could 2:10:56.800 --> 2:11:00.200 be a coup against Ji jimping because fucking emperor was 2:11:00.280 --> 2:11:04.160 overthrown a hundred, a hundred and twenty four years ago. 2:11:05.120 --> 2:11:12.640 Like it's it's it's endlessly frustrating. And yeah, anyway, so 2:11:14.880 --> 2:11:21.680 don't don't use the internet, attack global communications infrastructure. Um 2:11:22.760 --> 2:11:26.040 and yeah, buy gold, buy some gold. And if you 2:11:26.080 --> 2:11:29.960 see something on Twitter or really anywhere online, instantly believe 2:11:30.000 --> 2:11:34.080 it no matter what it is. Yeah, live your life 2:11:34.120 --> 2:11:37.560 that way, it's it's fine. Also, should we plug our 2:11:37.800 --> 2:11:42.520 our lives our live show that Yeah, so we're doing 2:11:42.640 --> 2:11:47.280 a live virtual it could happen here and Q and 2:11:47.360 --> 2:11:51.000 A the entire squad will be there. You can get 2:11:51.080 --> 2:11:56.760 tickets from moment, dot ceo, slash I c h ah. 2:11:56.880 --> 2:11:59.320 It's all over our socials if you're looking for it, 2:11:59.680 --> 2:12:03.520 and that will be on October that's six pm Pacific time. 2:12:04.680 --> 2:12:10.080 Mark your calendars, market calendars, calendar, dot ceo, slash I 2:12:10.400 --> 2:12:15.520 c h h. I feel that was beautiful. Good for you, Sophie, 2:12:15.640 --> 2:12:18.120 And I know we've had a lot of debate about 2:12:18.120 --> 2:12:20.400 what we're gonna be talking about, and I think one 2:12:20.400 --> 2:12:22.920 of the most important things in current events right now 2:12:23.000 --> 2:12:25.839 that kind of indicates the kind of collapse of American 2:12:25.920 --> 2:12:28.760 society is all of the Try Guys discourse. So we 2:12:28.840 --> 2:12:33.520 are going to be preparing a two hour Try Guys 2:12:33.880 --> 2:12:36.480 two hours, two hour presentation on the evolution of the 2:12:36.520 --> 2:12:39.320 Try Guys discourse and what really happened behind the scenes 2:12:39.560 --> 2:12:42.520 and how it impacts American politics. Going spoilers, none of 2:12:42.600 --> 2:13:04.320 them were ever married. Bye, hello, and welcome to it 2:13:04.440 --> 2:13:08.240 could happen here. This is Sharine, and you are listening 2:13:08.320 --> 2:13:12.000 to the first of two parts of the little series. 2:13:12.080 --> 2:13:15.720 I wanted to do about Yemen. I think, Um, I've 2:13:15.720 --> 2:13:19.880 been really interested in the history of countries that are 2:13:19.960 --> 2:13:24.120 currently in turmoil because understanding the history of how they 2:13:24.200 --> 2:13:28.720 got there is usually so important to understanding their present. 2:13:29.360 --> 2:13:31.600 So Yemen is one of those places I think that 2:13:31.880 --> 2:13:36.000 is always in the news as experiencing something horrific, and 2:13:37.400 --> 2:13:41.200 I wanted to know exactly how we got to where 2:13:41.240 --> 2:13:45.280 we are. So I wanted to focus on primarily modern 2:13:45.440 --> 2:13:48.560 events in the last several years, for example. And so 2:13:48.720 --> 2:13:51.640 this first episode is going to cover everything up till 2:13:51.720 --> 2:13:54.920 two eighteen, and then our next episode will cover the 2:13:55.080 --> 2:14:00.280 years after that. But before we jump to the modern times, 2:14:00.360 --> 2:14:02.440 I wanted to do a chronology of some key events 2:14:02.600 --> 2:14:06.440 that had led up to uh the nineteen nineties essentially, 2:14:07.080 --> 2:14:10.120 So we're gonna rewind all the way back to the 2:14:10.240 --> 2:14:13.360 fifteen hundreds. I know, but still the stuff is interesting 2:14:13.440 --> 2:14:15.440 to me. I hope it is to YouTube. Let's get 2:14:15.480 --> 2:14:18.760 into it. In the fifteen hundreds, the Ottomans absorbed part 2:14:18.840 --> 2:14:21.480 of Yemen into their empire, but they're expelled in the 2:14:21.560 --> 2:14:26.879 sixteen hundreds. Centuries later, in eighteen thirty nine, Aiden Yemen's 2:14:26.920 --> 2:14:30.560 capital comes under British rule, and then when the Suez 2:14:30.600 --> 2:14:33.920 Canal opens up in eighteen sixty nine, the city serves 2:14:34.000 --> 2:14:37.920 as a major refueling port. In eighteen forty nine, the 2:14:37.960 --> 2:14:41.480 Ottomans returned to the north of Yemen. However, around World 2:14:41.520 --> 2:14:44.880 War One in nineteen eighteen, the Ottoman Empire dissolves and 2:14:45.200 --> 2:14:49.240 North Yemen gains independence and is ruled by Imam Yahiah. 2:14:50.240 --> 2:14:53.640 After thirty years in power, in nineteen forty eight, Yahya 2:14:53.800 --> 2:14:57.320 is assassinated. So many things happened in nineteen forty eight. 2:14:57.440 --> 2:15:00.240 I swear to God that years cursed. But anyway, after 2:15:00.480 --> 2:15:04.280 has assassinated, his son Ahmed fights off opponents of feudal 2:15:04.440 --> 2:15:08.680 rule and he succeeds his father. In sixty two, Imam 2:15:08.760 --> 2:15:12.400 Ahmed dies and he succeeded by his son. However, army 2:15:12.480 --> 2:15:15.320 officers then sees power and they set up the Yemen 2:15:15.440 --> 2:15:19.160 Arab Republic and this sparks a civil war between royalists 2:15:19.200 --> 2:15:22.920 supported by Saudi Arabia and the Republicans. Essentially they are 2:15:22.960 --> 2:15:26.920 backed by Egypt. In nineteen sixty seven, Britain withdraws from 2:15:26.960 --> 2:15:30.040 the South of Yemen after years of a pro independence 2:15:30.080 --> 2:15:34.000 and surgency, and its former territories unite as the People's 2:15:34.040 --> 2:15:37.880 Republic of Yemen. In nineteen sixty nine, a communist coup 2:15:38.200 --> 2:15:41.440 renamed the South of Yemen the People's Democratic Republic of 2:15:41.520 --> 2:15:45.640 Yemen and reorients it towards the Soviet Block. The Soviet 2:15:45.680 --> 2:15:48.080 Block a k a. The Eastern Bloc for those that 2:15:48.160 --> 2:15:51.080 need a quick refresher like I did. It's also known 2:15:51.120 --> 2:15:54.360 as the Communist Block, the Socialist Bloc, and the Soviet Block, 2:15:54.720 --> 2:15:57.000 and it was the group of socialist states in Central 2:15:57.040 --> 2:16:00.320 and Eastern Europe, East Asia, Southeast Asia after cut in 2:16:00.360 --> 2:16:02.960 Latin America that was under the influence of the Soviet 2:16:03.080 --> 2:16:06.920 Union that existed during the Cold War. In nineteen seventy, 2:16:07.040 --> 2:16:10.160 Republican forces in Yemen triumph in the North Yemen Civil 2:16:10.200 --> 2:16:13.960 War in seventy two. There are border classes between the 2:16:14.040 --> 2:16:17.080 two Yemen's the North and the South, and a ceasefire 2:16:17.240 --> 2:16:20.680 is broken by the Arab League. In nineteen seventy eight, 2:16:20.880 --> 2:16:25.240 Ali becomes President of North Yemen. He's gonna be popping 2:16:25.320 --> 2:16:29.320 up a lot in this history and also some modern times. 2:16:29.440 --> 2:16:33.360 So is a name that we should remember going forward. 2:16:33.959 --> 2:16:36.720 In seventy nine, a year after saw That becomes president, 2:16:36.879 --> 2:16:40.520 there's new fighting that begins between the two Yemens. In 2:16:40.640 --> 2:16:44.320 eighty six, about seven years later, thousands die in a 2:16:44.360 --> 2:16:47.280 power struggle in the South, which effectively drives the first 2:16:47.360 --> 2:16:51.440 generation of leaders from office. Hight that Abubuk of Us 2:16:51.720 --> 2:16:55.000 then takes over and begins to work towards the unification 2:16:55.200 --> 2:16:59.480 of these two states in Yemen. However, this unification is 2:16:59.600 --> 2:17:03.280 pretty uneasy in the early years in the nineteen nineties. 2:17:03.480 --> 2:17:06.800 After the reunification of Yemen in May of nineteen nine, 2:17:08.320 --> 2:17:11.360 transitions from President of North Yemen Opposed that he had 2:17:11.400 --> 2:17:14.480 held since nineteen seventy eight to the President of the 2:17:14.560 --> 2:17:17.560 Republic of Yemen. At the same time, the z d 2:17:17.720 --> 2:17:21.600 Shia group on Subtle Allah or the Hoothies gradually gained power, 2:17:22.040 --> 2:17:24.880 and the group's rise has at this point the tacit 2:17:24.920 --> 2:17:28.080 support of President saw That. At this point, the Soviet 2:17:28.160 --> 2:17:32.720 Bloc implodes the tension between these former states indoors, even 2:17:32.760 --> 2:17:35.240 though they're technically supposed to be united. At this point, 2:17:35.360 --> 2:17:37.520 the former states of Yemen is what I'm talking about here, 2:17:37.879 --> 2:17:41.920 So we block is over, so a civil war begins. 2:17:42.440 --> 2:17:46.600 Just years after the reunification of Yemen, the unintegrated armies 2:17:46.640 --> 2:17:49.120 of the North and the South face off, resulting in 2:17:49.200 --> 2:17:51.560 a brief civil war that resulted in the defeat of 2:17:51.600 --> 2:17:55.280 the Southern army and short up Yemen's reunification. In May 2:17:55.360 --> 2:17:58.160 of July of that year, President saw That declares a 2:17:58.280 --> 2:18:02.720 state of emergency and dismisses Vice President Alibad and other 2:18:02.760 --> 2:18:06.000 Southern officials who declare the secession of the South before 2:18:06.080 --> 2:18:11.800 being defeated by the National Army. A year later, Yemen 2:18:11.959 --> 2:18:15.840 and Ratria clash over the disputed Haniche Islands in the 2:18:15.920 --> 2:18:20.080 Red Sea. International arbitration awarded the bulk of these islands 2:18:20.200 --> 2:18:24.720 later to Yemen. In this brings us to the two thousands, 2:18:24.840 --> 2:18:27.960 which introduces al Qaeda into Yemen, and I guess the 2:18:28.040 --> 2:18:31.120 rest of the world. But in two thousand, President saw 2:18:31.200 --> 2:18:34.879 That reaches a border demarcation agreement with Saudi Arabia which 2:18:34.959 --> 2:18:37.520 is known as the Treaty of Jedda, and he seeks 2:18:37.560 --> 2:18:40.560 to disarm the Hoothies, whom he had previously viewed as 2:18:40.560 --> 2:18:44.440 a useful weapon against Saudi interference in Yemen. In October 2:18:44.520 --> 2:18:47.520 of that year, the U S Naval vessel USS Coal 2:18:47.840 --> 2:18:52.440 is damaged in an Alcada suicide attack in Aiden. Seventeen 2:18:52.720 --> 2:18:56.240 U S personnel are killed with this attack. In February 2:18:56.280 --> 2:18:59.160 two thousand and two, Yemen expels more than a hundred 2:18:59.280 --> 2:19:03.640 foreign Islam mcclaric's in a crackdown on al Qaeda. In 2:19:03.720 --> 2:19:06.959 October of that year, al Qaeda attacks and badly damages 2:19:07.120 --> 2:19:10.480 the oil supertanker m vy Limburgh in the Gulf of Aiden, 2:19:10.840 --> 2:19:14.279 and this kills one person and injures twelve other crew members, 2:19:14.520 --> 2:19:16.880 and it also costs Yemen a lot of money in 2:19:17.200 --> 2:19:20.760 lost ports revenues. Between two thousand and four and two 2:19:20.760 --> 2:19:24.720 thousand and ten. Is the Hoothy Insurgency or the Hoothy Rebellion? 2:19:25.320 --> 2:19:28.360 Tensions run high at this point between Sauce government and 2:19:28.400 --> 2:19:32.120 the Hoofies. After Sawce border deal with Saudi Arabia. The 2:19:32.200 --> 2:19:35.720 Hoothies are led by Hussain Badadadana Hoothie at this time, 2:19:36.240 --> 2:19:39.960 and Houthi eventually leads a rebellion against the MNI government 2:19:40.080 --> 2:19:43.400 into thousand and four. In June through August of this year, 2:19:43.680 --> 2:19:47.360 hundreds die as troops battle the Shia insurgency that is 2:19:47.440 --> 2:19:50.120 led by her Sanna Hoothi in the north. Starting in 2:19:50.200 --> 2:19:53.160 June of two tho four saw this government begins arresting 2:19:53.320 --> 2:19:56.240 hundreds of Hoothy members and issues a reward for her 2:19:56.320 --> 2:20:00.440 saying Baddan and Hoothies arrest the leader of the Huthie's. 2:20:01.400 --> 2:20:05.160 This fighting continues until al Huthi is killed in September 2:20:05.280 --> 2:20:08.440 of two thousand and four. In two thousand and five, 2:20:08.760 --> 2:20:11.920 between March and April, fighting between the Hoothies, which are 2:20:12.000 --> 2:20:16.920 now led by Hussain's brother Abdi Huthi, and government forces 2:20:17.040 --> 2:20:21.120 surges and this leaves hundreds dead. More than two hundred 2:20:21.200 --> 2:20:24.440 people are killed in a resurgence of fighting between government 2:20:24.520 --> 2:20:28.120 forces and the supporters of the previously slain leader of 2:20:28.160 --> 2:20:31.200 the Hoothies, Hussan and Huthi, who had died before his 2:20:31.280 --> 2:20:34.760 brother had took power and this fighting ceases after the 2:20:34.879 --> 2:20:37.720 sides reach an agreement, resulting in the surrender of the 2:20:37.800 --> 2:20:42.000 Hoothies top military commander. Between two thousand and five thousand 2:20:42.040 --> 2:20:45.640 and six. These sporadic clashes between the government and the 2:20:45.680 --> 2:20:49.440 Houthis continue, but in March two thousand and six President 2:20:49.520 --> 2:20:53.640 saw Grant's amnesty to six hundred Hoothie fighters. I think 2:20:54.000 --> 2:20:57.160 this is part of the reason that President saw That 2:20:57.280 --> 2:20:59.880 goes on to win the two thousand and six election 2:21:00.160 --> 2:21:03.840 and remains president. However, in early tw thousand and seven, 2:21:03.959 --> 2:21:07.640 the Hoothy rebels and Sluce government again find themselves at odds. 2:21:08.200 --> 2:21:11.440 Fighting continues for five months and many are killed or 2:21:11.520 --> 2:21:15.640 wounded in the clashes between security forces and Hoothy rebels 2:21:15.640 --> 2:21:20.480 in the north. This continues until rebel leader Omnica Hoothy 2:21:20.959 --> 2:21:23.760 accepts a cease fire agreement with saw There and this 2:21:23.879 --> 2:21:27.280 happens in June thou seven. With the help of the 2:21:27.360 --> 2:21:30.560 ceasefire had not turned a year old when even more 2:21:30.680 --> 2:21:33.840 fighting breaks out between the government and the rebels. By 2:21:34.000 --> 2:21:37.320 July of two thousand and eight, are all declares an 2:21:37.440 --> 2:21:40.760 end to the fighting, and the Hoothy dominated Sada governorate 2:21:41.840 --> 2:21:44.440 in September of this year, an al Qaida attack on 2:21:44.520 --> 2:21:49.480 a US embassy in Sanna kills twelve people. Let's take 2:21:49.560 --> 2:21:52.520 our first little break before I forget, and we'll jump 2:21:52.600 --> 2:21:57.520 back in um see what happens next, and we're back. 2:21:58.560 --> 2:22:01.920 We left off in September thousand and eight after an 2:22:01.920 --> 2:22:05.360 al Qaeda attack on a US embassy killed twelve people, 2:22:06.000 --> 2:22:09.400 and in November of that year, police fire warning shots 2:22:09.440 --> 2:22:13.640 at opposition rallies and Sanna. These demonstrators were demanding electoral 2:22:13.760 --> 2:22:17.400 reform and fresh polls. Between two thousand and nine two 2:22:17.400 --> 2:22:21.720 thousand and ten, as Operations Scorched Earth. In August of 2:22:21.760 --> 2:22:25.480 two thousand and nine, the MNY military launches Operations Scorched 2:22:25.560 --> 2:22:29.320 Earth to crush the Hoothy Rebellion and SADA. At this point, 2:22:29.480 --> 2:22:33.359 Hoothy rebels begin fighting with Saudi forces and cross border clashes. 2:22:34.000 --> 2:22:36.760 Tens of thousands of people are displaced by the fighting. 2:22:37.400 --> 2:22:41.359 This fighting continues until after rounds of offers and counteroffers, 2:22:41.600 --> 2:22:45.360 SAWA's government agrees to a ceasefire with Opdoismatical Houthi and 2:22:45.440 --> 2:22:49.039 the rebels. In February thousand and ten. The MNI military 2:22:49.160 --> 2:22:54.440 simultaneously carries out Operation Blow to the head Yes Operation 2:22:54.560 --> 2:22:57.080 Blow to the Head. This is a crackdown on both 2:22:57.120 --> 2:23:00.080 the rebels and al Qaeda and the Arabian Peninsula ch 2:23:00.120 --> 2:23:03.240 are known as a q a P. Thousands flee the 2:23:03.320 --> 2:23:08.080 government offensive against the separatists in the southern Chebwa province. 2:23:08.800 --> 2:23:12.840 In September of that year, government forces besiege the governorate 2:23:13.040 --> 2:23:16.000 of Chebua in southeast Yemen to root out the a 2:23:16.160 --> 2:23:20.440 q a P militants. By two thousand eleven, the Arab 2:23:20.560 --> 2:23:25.520 Spring reaches Yemen. In January, demonstrations calling for the end 2:23:25.640 --> 2:23:28.920 of saw that thirty three year rule begin. Saw the 2:23:29.160 --> 2:23:32.280 offer some concessions, promising not to seek re election, but 2:23:32.400 --> 2:23:36.440 the protests spread security forces and saw the supporters launch 2:23:36.480 --> 2:23:39.879 a crackdown that eventually leaves between two hundred and two 2:23:39.959 --> 2:23:43.960 thousand people dead. There's such a huge discrepancy between the 2:23:44.120 --> 2:23:47.400 death toll because it's hard to know how many people 2:23:47.720 --> 2:23:50.400 are suffering, how many people die from these kinds of attacks, 2:23:51.680 --> 2:23:54.120 especially when there's not a lot of international interference or 2:23:54.120 --> 2:23:59.920 international care. Essentially, In April two thousand eleven, saw General 2:24:00.440 --> 2:24:05.160 People's Congress the GPC agrees to a Golf Cooperation Council 2:24:05.240 --> 2:24:08.600 broker deal to hand over power, but the president refuses 2:24:08.640 --> 2:24:12.720 to sign on. This prompts the influential Hashid tribal Federation 2:24:12.879 --> 2:24:16.560 and several army commanders to back the opposition, after which 2:24:16.920 --> 2:24:21.400 clashes erupt in Senna. In June thousand eleven, President saw 2:24:21.440 --> 2:24:23.840 That seriously injured in a bombing and he travels to 2:24:23.840 --> 2:24:28.040 Saudi Arabia for medical treatment. In September thousand eleven, saw 2:24:28.120 --> 2:24:32.240 That returns to the presidential palace amid renewed clashes. It 2:24:32.400 --> 2:24:34.840 is not until November thousand eleven that he signs a 2:24:34.920 --> 2:24:38.879 deal that states that his deputy, ad Abu Mansour al Hadi, 2:24:39.000 --> 2:24:42.760 assumed power and form a unity government. This unity government 2:24:42.840 --> 2:24:46.040 would include a prime minister from the opposition, and it's 2:24:46.080 --> 2:24:49.880 formed after months of protests. This same month, a U 2:24:50.080 --> 2:24:53.480 s born al Qaida leader in Yemen, an El Alacki, 2:24:53.760 --> 2:24:58.160 is killed by US forces. In February had he is 2:24:58.200 --> 2:25:00.960 sworn in for a two year term as president after 2:25:01.040 --> 2:25:04.240 an election in which he stood unopposed. However, he is 2:25:04.320 --> 2:25:07.000 unable to counter the al Qaeda attacks in the capital 2:25:07.080 --> 2:25:11.480 as the year goes on. Thousand fourteen is was considered 2:25:11.600 --> 2:25:15.199 the years of the post Arab Spring, and in January, 2:25:15.920 --> 2:25:20.480 the National Dialogue Conference concludes after ten months of deliberations, 2:25:20.520 --> 2:25:22.880 agreeing to a document on which the new constitution of 2:25:22.959 --> 2:25:27.000 Yemen would be based. In February, a presidential panel approves 2:25:27.080 --> 2:25:30.240 of a political transition plan that includes a draft federal 2:25:30.320 --> 2:25:33.879 constitution for Yemen that organizes the country into a federation 2:25:34.000 --> 2:25:37.560 of six regions. This was aimed to accommodate the Hoothie 2:25:37.600 --> 2:25:41.920 rebels and Southern grievances, but the Hoothie sees control of 2:25:42.040 --> 2:25:44.160 most of Senna in August of that year and they 2:25:44.240 --> 2:25:47.760 reject the deal. Following two weeks of anti government protests, 2:25:47.840 --> 2:25:51.440 President had He dissolves his cabinet and overturns a controversial 2:25:51.640 --> 2:25:55.560 rise in fuel prices. By October thousand fourteen, the Hoothies 2:25:55.600 --> 2:25:59.200 take control of most of Yemen's capital, Senna. The following month, 2:25:59.320 --> 2:26:01.400 the rebels see used the Red Sea and the port 2:26:01.600 --> 2:26:07.000 of Kudaita. In January, after being placed under house arrest 2:26:07.080 --> 2:26:11.040 by the Hoothies, had He resigns as president. Despite previous 2:26:11.080 --> 2:26:14.240 attempts to craft a power sharing agreement between Haddie and 2:26:14.240 --> 2:26:17.879 the Hoofies, the two had continued to clash. The Hoothies 2:26:17.959 --> 2:26:21.880 later reject a draft constitution that was proposed by Haddie's government. 2:26:22.720 --> 2:26:25.600 A month later, the Hoothies take control of the Yemeni 2:26:25.680 --> 2:26:29.720 government and appoint in Presidential Council to replace President Haddie, 2:26:30.040 --> 2:26:32.040 but this is a move that is swiftly denounced by 2:26:32.040 --> 2:26:36.240 the United Nations. President Haddie then flees the presidential palace 2:26:36.280 --> 2:26:39.320 and Sanna and he escapes to his southern stronghold of Aiden, 2:26:39.800 --> 2:26:43.000 and this is where he later rescinds his resignation, declaring 2:26:43.080 --> 2:26:46.800 himself the legitimate president and deems the Hoothie takeover a coup. 2:26:47.640 --> 2:26:50.520 The month after that, in March thousand and five, the 2:26:50.640 --> 2:26:54.360 Islamic State claimed its first attacks in Yemen, which were 2:26:54.440 --> 2:26:58.240 two suicide bombings that targeted Shia Masks and Senna, the capital, 2:26:58.680 --> 2:27:01.000 and this resulted in a hund than thirty seven people 2:27:01.080 --> 2:27:05.000 being killed. The Hoothies start and offensive against government forces 2:27:05.120 --> 2:27:08.960 and advanced towards southern Yemen. President Haddie then flees Adn 2:27:09.080 --> 2:27:12.720 and takes refuge instead in Saudi Arabia. Shortly thereafter, the 2:27:12.800 --> 2:27:16.560 Hoothies sees parts of ties, a city in southwestern Yemen, 2:27:17.560 --> 2:27:20.400 after repeated please from Haddie, who was still taking refuge 2:27:20.400 --> 2:27:23.560 in Saudi Arabia, a Saudi led coalition of Arab states, 2:27:23.680 --> 2:27:28.800 including the United Arab Emirates, Egypt, Morocco, Jordan, Bahrain, Sudan, 2:27:28.920 --> 2:27:33.560 and Kuwait initiates Operation Decisive Storm in support of the 2:27:33.600 --> 2:27:38.600 ousted president. The coalition launches air strikes against Hoothie targets, 2:27:38.760 --> 2:27:42.360 deploys small ground forces, and imposes a naval blockade in 2:27:42.480 --> 2:27:45.720 order to halt the Hoothie's advance on Aidan. The United 2:27:45.760 --> 2:27:49.640 States then announces its intention to aid in the coalition's efforts. 2:27:50.560 --> 2:27:53.680 In April. A month later, the coalition declares an end 2:27:53.840 --> 2:27:58.039 to Operation Decisive Storm. Saudi Arabia announces it would move 2:27:58.080 --> 2:28:02.840 on to a phase described as Operation Restoring Hope. Despite 2:28:02.920 --> 2:28:06.640 the announcement, the Saudi leg Coalition continues to bomb Hoothy 2:28:06.720 --> 2:28:09.840 positions and the United States increases its arms sales for 2:28:09.920 --> 2:28:13.320 the Saudi campaign in Yemen. Let's take our second break 2:28:13.440 --> 2:28:16.760 and we will be right back to continue this little history. 2:28:17.040 --> 2:28:21.360 So b rb Okay, we're back, and we are still 2:28:21.480 --> 2:28:27.320 in April, when the Saudi leg coalition continues to bomb 2:28:27.360 --> 2:28:31.120 Hoothy positions and the United States increases its arms sales 2:28:31.240 --> 2:28:34.959 for the Saudi campaign in Yemen. This is after Saudi 2:28:34.959 --> 2:28:37.400 Arabia announced that it would move on to a phase 2:28:37.760 --> 2:28:42.680 described as Operation Restoring Hope despite the bombing campaign that 2:28:42.800 --> 2:28:45.800 the Saudis are carrying out. The Hoothies capture the city 2:28:45.840 --> 2:28:49.520 of Oak, which is a small city and the capital 2:28:49.600 --> 2:28:55.120 of the Chebua government in Yemen. It's also southeast from Senna, 2:28:55.280 --> 2:28:57.680 and it's not that far. It's it only about four 2:28:57.800 --> 2:29:02.120 hundred and fifty kilometers south of Santa. After three Saudi 2:29:02.160 --> 2:29:05.160 officials die in a Hoothy attack at the Saudi border, 2:29:05.440 --> 2:29:09.600 Saudi Arabia boosts its border security. The Hoothy fighters also 2:29:09.720 --> 2:29:13.560 condemn a u N Security Council resolution imposing an armed 2:29:13.560 --> 2:29:17.240 embargo on the group, calling the decision an act of aggression. 2:29:18.160 --> 2:29:22.600 A month later, Alia, the previous president had been accused 2:29:22.640 --> 2:29:26.160 of sighting previously with Hoothy rebels and support of Hattie's 2:29:26.160 --> 2:29:30.080 ouster and May Saw the Henyemni forces loyal to him, 2:29:30.160 --> 2:29:33.840 announced a formal alliance with the Hoothies. The Saudis and 2:29:33.920 --> 2:29:38.119 the Hoothies then agree to a five day humanitarian ceasefire. 2:29:39.200 --> 2:29:43.040 US President Barack Obama convenes a g c C meeting 2:29:43.240 --> 2:29:46.400 the Gulf Corporation Council at Camp David to resolve the 2:29:46.480 --> 2:29:49.920 crisis in Yemen, but only two states send their leaders, 2:29:50.480 --> 2:29:53.280 which is very sad to me. A month later, we're 2:29:53.320 --> 2:29:57.360 in June and the leader of the al Qaeda in 2:29:57.480 --> 2:30:01.920 the Arabian Peninsula, the a q a P, Nassaid al Wahishi, 2:30:02.240 --> 2:30:04.560 is killed in a U S drone strike in Yemen. 2:30:06.959 --> 2:30:10.240 A month after that, after months of fighting with Sunni 2:30:10.320 --> 2:30:13.920 tribesmen and a q a P militants, the Hoothies take 2:30:13.959 --> 2:30:20.520 control of the entire Cheboa government. The following month, President 2:30:20.600 --> 2:30:24.000 Haddie returns to Aidan after Saudi backed government forces and 2:30:24.080 --> 2:30:27.959 those loyal to Haddie recapture the port city from Hoothy forces. 2:30:30.200 --> 2:30:34.320 Introduces some foreign intervention, which always sounds like a good idea. 2:30:35.320 --> 2:30:38.360 In April of that year, the U n sponsors talks 2:30:38.440 --> 2:30:42.080 between the Haddie government and the coalition of Hoothies, as 2:30:42.120 --> 2:30:46.840 well as former President saw this General People's Congress. Between 2:30:46.879 --> 2:30:52.400 October sixteen and May, both sides of the conflict allegedly 2:30:52.480 --> 2:30:56.480 break their ceasefires. The United Nations and others try to 2:30:56.600 --> 2:31:00.520 broker peace talks and political resolutions. The Hoothy his claim 2:31:00.560 --> 2:31:04.480 responsibility for firing missiles into Saudi Arabia, including the capital 2:31:04.560 --> 2:31:10.520 of Rial. Also in humanitarian agencies and watchdogs decry the 2:31:10.640 --> 2:31:14.360 Yemen crisis as one of the worst humanitarian emergencies in 2:31:14.480 --> 2:31:18.120 the world. There are thousands of civilians dead and wounded 2:31:18.160 --> 2:31:20.840 at this point, and there's also an outbreak of cholera 2:31:21.480 --> 2:31:24.600 and a potential famine that would also leave thousands on 2:31:24.680 --> 2:31:29.600 the brink of starvation. In November seventeen, Saudi Arabia intercepts 2:31:29.640 --> 2:31:32.800 a missile fired towards its airport in the Real and 2:31:32.879 --> 2:31:36.920 blames the Hoothies Iran and Lebanon's has Belah for escalating 2:31:36.959 --> 2:31:40.800 the war. A month later, after saw they had reverse 2:31:40.920 --> 2:31:44.480 course and sided with the Saudi led coalition. Fierce fighting 2:31:44.680 --> 2:31:47.160 in Senna between the Hoothies and the forces loyal to 2:31:47.240 --> 2:31:50.879 SA leave the former president dead. SAA has now dead. 2:31:51.480 --> 2:31:54.440 The Hoothies at this point are controlling much of northern Yemen, 2:31:54.720 --> 2:31:58.160 but they still face stiff opposition from the Saudi led coalition. 2:31:58.840 --> 2:32:03.000 President Handy, whose loyalist control much of South Yemen, has 2:32:03.080 --> 2:32:05.800 called for a popular uprising against who the the rule 2:32:05.840 --> 2:32:11.120 in the north. Son, who saw that the former president 2:32:11.200 --> 2:32:15.200 that has now died. The son is Ahmed Ali, and 2:32:15.320 --> 2:32:19.080 he has vowed revenge against the Huthie's for his father's assassination. 2:32:20.320 --> 2:32:24.080 We're now in eighteen, and a lot happens in eighteen. 2:32:24.200 --> 2:32:26.160 That the last year we're going to talk about. But 2:32:26.240 --> 2:32:28.480 there's a lot of months in ten. So let's start 2:32:28.480 --> 2:32:32.920 with January. In January eighteen and a firefight the Southern 2:32:33.160 --> 2:32:38.080 Transitional Council the STC, the United Arab Emirates backed separatist movement. 2:32:38.840 --> 2:32:42.199 It seeks a revival of the formally independent South Yemen, 2:32:42.280 --> 2:32:45.960 and it sees his control of Aiden. Aiden is Yemen's 2:32:46.000 --> 2:32:49.160 main southern city and government headquarters, and it was also 2:32:49.240 --> 2:32:51.959 the previous capital if you remember, all the way back went. 2:32:52.840 --> 2:32:56.959 By March of that year, twenty two million Yeminies require 2:32:57.080 --> 2:33:01.840 humanitarian aid. In February, Mary the u N appoints long 2:33:01.959 --> 2:33:06.200 time British diplomat Martin Griffiths as Special Envoy of the 2:33:06.280 --> 2:33:10.600 Secretary General for Yemen. Between March and May, after thousand 2:33:10.640 --> 2:33:15.160 and eighteen, fighting escalates along Yemen's western coast and dozens 2:33:15.200 --> 2:33:18.600 are killed in Saudi air attacks and security raids. A 2:33:18.680 --> 2:33:23.200 Saudi led coalition drone strike kills Sachaliel Samad, who was 2:33:23.320 --> 2:33:27.119 president of Yemen's Supreme Political Council, making him the most 2:33:27.240 --> 2:33:30.880 senior Hoothy casualties since the coalition began its activities in 2:33:32.360 --> 2:33:36.720 International opposition to the coalition's operations grows. After an air 2:33:36.840 --> 2:33:39.840 raid kills more than twenty people at a wedding party 2:33:40.800 --> 2:33:44.640 in may Ua, e forces take over the island of Sakatra, 2:33:45.240 --> 2:33:48.400 occupying the airport and the seaport and causing tensions with 2:33:48.440 --> 2:33:54.120 the Yemeni government officials. Between June and July, Yemeni President 2:33:54.240 --> 2:33:58.520 Adre Mansur Hadi meets with the UAE Crown Prince Muhammad 2:33:58.640 --> 2:34:02.880 bin Dad and Night, and by July, the coalition launches 2:34:02.920 --> 2:34:07.359 and offensive on the port of Kudeida. Between August and October, 2:34:08.720 --> 2:34:13.160 international outrage over the Saudi led coalitions war and Yemen grows. 2:34:13.280 --> 2:34:17.120 After an air raid strikes a school bus, killing forty Yemeni, 2:34:17.440 --> 2:34:21.119 mostly children. Public opinion of US support for the war 2:34:21.240 --> 2:34:24.560 effort in the United States plummets as it is reported 2:34:24.600 --> 2:34:26.800 that the bomb that was used in the air raid 2:34:27.000 --> 2:34:31.360 was US supplied. In October, US resident and Washington Post 2:34:31.440 --> 2:34:36.080 columnists Jamaica Shogi is assassinated by Saudi agents in Istumble, 2:34:36.400 --> 2:34:39.480 and this raises additional questions about the U S support 2:34:39.560 --> 2:34:43.200 for Yad's war on Yemen U and efforts to mediate 2:34:43.280 --> 2:34:46.160 between the MNY government and the Hoothie rebels in Geneva, 2:34:46.240 --> 2:34:51.400 Switzerland are fruitless. At the end of November and December, 2:34:51.920 --> 2:34:56.120 the US political establishment begins to have some unrest for 2:34:56.280 --> 2:34:59.600 withdrawing US support from the Saudi led coalition in Yemen. 2:35:00.200 --> 2:35:04.600 Former Obama administration officials, including the future Secretary of State 2:35:04.640 --> 2:35:09.200 Anthony B. Lincoln, the future UN Ambassador nominee Linda Thomas Greenfield, 2:35:09.600 --> 2:35:12.760 and the future National Security Advisor to President Joe Biden, 2:35:12.959 --> 2:35:16.560 Jake Sullivan. They all sign an open letter expressing remorse 2:35:16.680 --> 2:35:19.920 for their support of the war and urging all sizes 2:35:20.000 --> 2:35:22.520 to end the fighting because a letter in thoughts and 2:35:22.600 --> 2:35:26.119 prayers is exactly what we need. In December of eighteen, 2:35:26.320 --> 2:35:29.120 the U S Senate for the first time, votes to 2:35:29.200 --> 2:35:32.920 invoke the War Powers Resolution to force the US military 2:35:33.080 --> 2:35:37.560 to end its participation in the Yemen War. Later that month, 2:35:37.760 --> 2:35:41.000 after un mediated talks, the mn E government and the 2:35:41.040 --> 2:35:45.240 Hoothies signed the Stockholm Agreement that includes prisoner swaps, a 2:35:45.360 --> 2:35:48.880 mutual redeployment of forces away from the jode deport and 2:35:49.080 --> 2:35:52.560 a committee to discuss the contested city of Tayis. The 2:35:52.680 --> 2:35:55.800 ceasefire is set to take effect on December eighteenth, after 2:35:55.879 --> 2:36:00.680 thousand eighteen. Overall, the Stockholm Agreement fails to eachieve its goals, 2:36:00.920 --> 2:36:05.440 and neither side agrees to withdraw from Hodeida. This is 2:36:05.440 --> 2:36:08.440 where I'm going to leave you for today. Um really 2:36:08.560 --> 2:36:14.000 uplifting point, huh. But tomorrow will continue on starting in 2:36:14.040 --> 2:36:17.160 twenty nineteen, and they'll take us to present day, where 2:36:17.440 --> 2:36:19.760 a lot of ship is still happening. But I hope 2:36:19.879 --> 2:36:22.920 this little history of Yemen has given you an idea 2:36:23.400 --> 2:36:26.360 of how exactly a country can keep having so much 2:36:26.440 --> 2:36:32.520 unrest because of constant leadership squabbles just to say the least, uh, 2:36:32.840 --> 2:36:39.879 and coup attempts and fighting and international intervention. So that's 2:36:39.879 --> 2:36:43.840 all for today, and uh, you'll hear me tomorrow if 2:36:43.879 --> 2:37:04.520 you want to. Goodbye, Hello you beautiful people, Welcome back 2:37:04.800 --> 2:37:09.120 to it could happen here. This is Sharene again. If 2:37:09.240 --> 2:37:13.080 you listened to our previous episode from yesterday, you would 2:37:13.200 --> 2:37:17.080 know that we are today continuing and finishing up this 2:37:17.240 --> 2:37:20.560 little two part series about the history of Yemen. Trying 2:37:20.640 --> 2:37:24.520 to understand how its history has led up to Yemen 2:37:24.600 --> 2:37:28.720 being in present day one of the worst humanitarian crises 2:37:28.800 --> 2:37:33.080 in the world. So, yeah, we're talking about the history, 2:37:33.200 --> 2:37:35.520 and last episode we talked about the history up until 2:37:36.400 --> 2:37:39.600 the end of and we're going to continue on from 2:37:39.640 --> 2:37:42.680 twenty nineteen because that's how time works. But I will say, 2:37:44.280 --> 2:37:45.800 I don't know why I feel like I need to 2:37:45.840 --> 2:37:49.240 provide a disclaimer, but this is who I am. I 2:37:49.320 --> 2:37:52.400 feel like I sounded like a board professor in the 2:37:52.480 --> 2:37:56.440 previous episode, so I apologize if it sounded a bit flat. 2:37:57.120 --> 2:38:00.400 There are just so many dates and names that I 2:38:00.640 --> 2:38:02.960 feel like I need to get right, and I'm still 2:38:02.959 --> 2:38:05.760 trying to figure out how to talk about history in 2:38:05.959 --> 2:38:10.800 a fun and engaging way, if that's even possible. So 2:38:11.120 --> 2:38:14.800 bear with me. Hopefully there were some things you found 2:38:14.879 --> 2:38:21.240 interesting and we can continue on this journey together. Okay, 2:38:21.680 --> 2:38:26.720 enough about me, please, let's continue on. In January twenty 2:38:26.840 --> 2:38:32.160 nineteen in Yemen, so the previous month, December, theem Andy 2:38:32.240 --> 2:38:35.200 government and the Hohothies had signed the Stockholm Agreement that 2:38:35.320 --> 2:38:39.240 included prisoner swaps, a mutual redeployment of forces away from 2:38:39.320 --> 2:38:42.560 Hoodet to port and a committee to discuss the contested 2:38:42.680 --> 2:38:46.160 city of Tais. The ceasefire was set to take effect 2:38:46.240 --> 2:38:52.199 on December, but overall this agreement fails to achieve its goals, 2:38:52.400 --> 2:38:57.120 and neither side agreed to withdraw from Hodeida. So as 2:38:57.160 --> 2:39:00.480 we enter into twenty nineteen, the fighting is continuing. The 2:39:00.560 --> 2:39:03.920 Hoothies launched a drone attack on the air based north 2:39:03.959 --> 2:39:07.360 of Aden, and this injures dozens and also kills the 2:39:07.480 --> 2:39:12.359 head of Yemeny intelligence. Back over in Washington, the Secretary 2:39:12.400 --> 2:39:16.560 of Defense, James Mattis. He had resigned in December eighteen, 2:39:16.760 --> 2:39:20.080 but his resignation takes effect in February of twenty nineteen, 2:39:20.480 --> 2:39:23.480 and this marks an end to the Trump administration's efforts 2:39:23.560 --> 2:39:27.400 to engage in the Yemen peace process. In April, Trump 2:39:27.640 --> 2:39:31.080 vetoed a bipartisan congressional measure that would force the US 2:39:31.160 --> 2:39:34.720 military to end its role in the Yemen War. By June. 2:39:34.959 --> 2:39:38.240 The U a E. Unilaterly scales back its military presence 2:39:38.240 --> 2:39:41.240 in Yemen while continuing to support the STC a k 2:39:41.440 --> 2:39:45.360 A the Southern Transitional Council, and the STC had sees 2:39:45.400 --> 2:39:49.480 at this point more power in Aiden. Meanwhile, the Hoothies 2:39:49.640 --> 2:39:53.160 step up their efforts to attack Saudi territory, including launching 2:39:53.240 --> 2:39:58.120 missiles at oil installations and airports. The Saudi and Yemeni 2:39:58.200 --> 2:40:02.080 forces capture Abus Amma and Mohajid, who is the leader 2:40:02.160 --> 2:40:05.200 of the so called Islamic State Yemen Province the I 2:40:05.560 --> 2:40:09.720 s y P. In July, the Emirates or the UAE 2:40:09.959 --> 2:40:13.760 announces it has completed its troop draw down or minimization 2:40:13.959 --> 2:40:17.920 in Yemen, but by August the STC effectively assumes control 2:40:18.120 --> 2:40:21.520 of the southern governance of a den Aban and Shabwa. 2:40:22.080 --> 2:40:25.360 By the end of August, the forces conduct air raids 2:40:25.440 --> 2:40:27.760 against the yemen government forces that are headed to a 2:40:27.879 --> 2:40:31.760 den to attempt to regain control. Also in August, the 2:40:31.840 --> 2:40:37.120 Hoothies launch Operation Victory from God against Saudi forces, and 2:40:37.280 --> 2:40:41.920 the Hoothies continue to escalate its attacks on Saudi oil installations. 2:40:42.520 --> 2:40:47.199 These operation names I will say poetic in a depressing 2:40:47.360 --> 2:40:51.160 sad way. In September, the Hoothies claimed to have used 2:40:51.240 --> 2:40:55.400 drones to bomb oil processing facilities in two cities in 2:40:55.520 --> 2:40:59.680 eastern Saudi Arabia. The attacks result in Saudi Arabia losing 2:40:59.680 --> 2:41:03.120 about half its output capacity, and even though the Hoothies 2:41:03.240 --> 2:41:07.000 take credit for the bombings, The international community at large 2:41:07.240 --> 2:41:10.680 blames Iran because Iran was thought to have provided the 2:41:10.760 --> 2:41:14.560 technical expertise that was needed to carry out such attacks. 2:41:15.400 --> 2:41:18.480 In November of twenty nineteen, in an effort to end 2:41:18.520 --> 2:41:21.920 the fighting between the coalition partners in Southern Yemen, Saudi 2:41:21.959 --> 2:41:24.600 Arabia and the U a E broker a power sharing 2:41:24.680 --> 2:41:28.199 agreement between their respective partners in the Yemen Government Forces 2:41:28.720 --> 2:41:32.760 and the STC. The Riad Agreement, which is what it 2:41:32.879 --> 2:41:36.680 was called, is signed in early November, but by December 2:41:37.040 --> 2:41:42.280 clashes resume between the two forces. Literally just a few 2:41:42.360 --> 2:41:48.160 weeks after it was signed. In January of leading up 2:41:48.200 --> 2:41:52.040 to February, fighting between the Saudi leg coalition and the 2:41:52.120 --> 2:41:55.960 Hohothies picks up. Huthi forces carry out missile attacks on 2:41:56.040 --> 2:42:00.120 military training caps and in Saudi Arabia's southern provinces is 2:42:00.959 --> 2:42:05.760 Whothies claimed to quote unquote liberate roughly a thousand, five 2:42:05.879 --> 2:42:09.000 hundred square miles of territory from the Al Jeff and 2:42:09.160 --> 2:42:13.080 Mareb governance from Saudi led forces, but this is a 2:42:13.160 --> 2:42:19.520 claim that the coalition denies. In March, remember when Huthi 2:42:19.680 --> 2:42:23.160 forces capture the strategic city of Husum in the edge 2:42:23.200 --> 2:42:26.640 Jeff offensive and the Saudi forces carried out a retaliatory 2:42:26.720 --> 2:42:31.920 air strike on Senna, the capital. March, if y'all remember, 2:42:32.480 --> 2:42:36.440 it's also when COVID officially made its big world debut. 2:42:36.879 --> 2:42:39.760 And I know the first cases happened in like late 2:42:39.840 --> 2:42:42.360 twenty nineteen, but I do think COVID really stole the 2:42:42.440 --> 2:42:46.240 show in March and has been the show ever since. 2:42:46.720 --> 2:42:50.080 But regardless, the Whosi's capturing the city of a Husum 2:42:50.120 --> 2:42:52.800 and the Saudi forces striking back with an air strike 2:42:52.920 --> 2:42:55.480 on Senna, this all happens in the midst of the 2:42:55.600 --> 2:42:59.320 beginnings of the COVID pandemic. The United Nations urges both 2:42:59.400 --> 2:43:01.920 sides to maintain the cease fire in order to prevent 2:43:02.000 --> 2:43:06.039 the pandemic from spreading in Yemen. This doesn't happen spoiler alert, 2:43:06.440 --> 2:43:09.440 But fearing that the hoothy rebels would control any incoming 2:43:09.520 --> 2:43:13.600 financial aid, the Trump administration announced as a freeze on 2:43:13.760 --> 2:43:18.480 seventy three million dollars in humanitarian aid to Yemen, which 2:43:18.560 --> 2:43:22.640 is a very big number, like objectively, but it's a 2:43:22.720 --> 2:43:26.280 huge number as far as what Yemen needs, as far 2:43:26.360 --> 2:43:29.520 as food and shelter and money like that. Makes a 2:43:29.640 --> 2:43:32.880 huge difference for a country that is in deep need 2:43:32.959 --> 2:43:40.360 of assistance, but Trump sucking sucks okay. In April, Saudi 2:43:40.400 --> 2:43:44.200 Arabia initiates a unilateral two weeks ceasefire to mitigate the 2:43:44.320 --> 2:43:49.119 risks of the new coronavirus pandemic. Days later, Yemen records 2:43:49.200 --> 2:43:53.359 its first known case of COVID nineteen. Despite the ceasefire, 2:43:53.760 --> 2:43:56.879 the Hoothies and the Saudi Look Coalition are both accused 2:43:56.959 --> 2:44:00.280 of carrying out attacks In the south. The st SEE 2:44:00.520 --> 2:44:04.120 once again demands self rule and it breaks its agreement 2:44:04.160 --> 2:44:08.640 with the national government. In June, the Southern Transitional Council 2:44:08.879 --> 2:44:13.160 deposes the recognized government in Skatra, with government supporters decrying 2:44:13.240 --> 2:44:17.400 the move as a coutata. The following month, the STC 2:44:17.600 --> 2:44:20.320 says that it has renounced its claim to self rule 2:44:20.640 --> 2:44:24.320 and will return to the previously agreed upon power sharing structure. 2:44:25.120 --> 2:44:28.440 Like not even two months, not even two months after 2:44:29.160 --> 2:44:33.320 the STC demanded self rule, It's like, actually, I was 2:44:33.440 --> 2:44:36.040 just kidding. I want to go back to the power 2:44:36.080 --> 2:44:39.040 sharing structure from before, and a lot of back and 2:44:39.160 --> 2:44:41.520 forth like this always seems to be happening in Yemen, 2:44:41.640 --> 2:44:45.119 but it also happens if you just keep in mind 2:44:45.959 --> 2:44:49.480 and so many nations that haven't necessarily maintained their roots 2:44:49.520 --> 2:44:53.360 long enough for something to grow, and I think Yemen 2:44:53.400 --> 2:44:57.520 has been in this soil stage for a really long time. 2:44:57.840 --> 2:44:59.920 If you just want to go with me with this metaphor, please. 2:45:00.560 --> 2:45:04.040 In October twenty the warring sides and Yemen carry out 2:45:04.080 --> 2:45:08.400 the conflict's largest prisoner swap. The following month, Saudi Arabia 2:45:08.480 --> 2:45:12.039 and the Hoothies have reportedly initiated back channel talks. From 2:45:12.080 --> 2:45:15.720 the saudiast side. Saudi officials indicated their willingness to sign 2:45:15.760 --> 2:45:18.960 a ceasefire and deal and end the Saudi air and 2:45:19.040 --> 2:45:22.240 sea blockade in exchange for the creation of a buffer 2:45:22.360 --> 2:45:26.959 zone between Hohothi controlled territory and Yemen and the Kingdom's borders. 2:45:27.520 --> 2:45:30.160 The Hohothies later claimed to have fired a missile at 2:45:30.200 --> 2:45:35.120 the coastal Saudi city of Judda. December, the STC and 2:45:35.200 --> 2:45:38.680 the Haddy government they formalize a new power sharing agreement 2:45:38.720 --> 2:45:43.360 in Aden. Prime Minister main Amadic Said is reappointed as 2:45:43.480 --> 2:45:46.400 head of the Hatty government's new cabinet, with the seats 2:45:46.440 --> 2:45:49.879 also going to both the STC and Yemen's Islaw party. 2:45:50.760 --> 2:45:54.240 Just weeks later, the new cabinet arrives in aid and 2:45:54.240 --> 2:45:57.680 from Saudi Arabia and an attack on the airport kills 2:45:57.720 --> 2:46:01.720 at least two dozen people, but no none of the ministers, 2:46:02.560 --> 2:46:05.280 the Hatty government, and the STC and much of the 2:46:05.320 --> 2:46:08.840 international community. They blame the Hoothies for the attack, and 2:46:09.080 --> 2:46:14.760 Saudi warplanes conduct a retaliatory air raid on Senna January. 2:46:15.920 --> 2:46:20.640 The Trump administration uses the December attack to justify designating 2:46:20.720 --> 2:46:23.920 the Hoothies as a foreign Terrorist organization or an f 2:46:24.040 --> 2:46:27.560 t O. The Hoothies are still able to consolidate control 2:46:27.879 --> 2:46:32.600 over about seventy of the empty population, and they threatened 2:46:32.640 --> 2:46:35.920 my Rib, which is a stronghold near the northeast corner 2:46:36.000 --> 2:46:39.560 of their control zone. My Rib is going to come 2:46:39.680 --> 2:46:43.760 up a bit, so ma Rib is a stronghold just 2:46:44.040 --> 2:46:49.280 beyond the threshold of the Hoothies control And then you 2:46:49.360 --> 2:46:54.800 guessed it. February. President Biden now enters the arena and 2:46:54.879 --> 2:46:58.880 he decides to take a new path. He announced his 2:46:59.040 --> 2:47:02.199 changes to the US policy towards Yemen, and this includes 2:47:02.240 --> 2:47:06.520 revoking the Hoothy FTO designation. So we'revoking the designation that 2:47:06.600 --> 2:47:10.520 the Hoothies are forced terrorist organization, and Biden also declares 2:47:10.560 --> 2:47:13.040 an end to the US support for the Saudi led 2:47:13.120 --> 2:47:17.680 coalitions offensive operations in the conflict. He appoints Timothy Lender 2:47:17.800 --> 2:47:21.320 King as the Special Envoy for Yemen. Biden shows his 2:47:21.440 --> 2:47:24.760 support in the UN lad peace process and he provides 2:47:24.800 --> 2:47:28.320 assurances to Saudi Arabia regarding the defense of its territory. 2:47:29.360 --> 2:47:32.800 Let's take our first little break here. I don't have 2:47:33.360 --> 2:47:35.560 a witty little segway to go to an ad break, 2:47:36.600 --> 2:47:38.280 but you know the drill. Just listen to the ads 2:47:38.400 --> 2:47:41.160 or press skip or whatever you do, and we will 2:47:41.160 --> 2:47:47.160 were back. We're back. This is Sharne. You probably need that. 2:47:47.680 --> 2:47:51.240 So okay, we left off with Biden showing support in 2:47:51.280 --> 2:47:56.320 the UN peace process and he's providing assurances to Saudi 2:47:56.360 --> 2:47:59.600 Arabia regarding the defense of its territory. But it also 2:48:00.400 --> 2:48:03.600 is after he declares an end to US support for 2:48:04.040 --> 2:48:08.720 the Saudi's offensive operations in the Yemen conflict. So after this, 2:48:09.000 --> 2:48:12.920 the Hoothy rebels launched an offensive in Marib City. Mari 2:48:13.160 --> 2:48:16.680 again is the final stronghold for government forces in the north. 2:48:17.280 --> 2:48:20.240 The city is also very significant because of its location. 2:48:20.959 --> 2:48:24.200 It is located very close to some of northern Yemen's 2:48:24.320 --> 2:48:29.600 richest oil fields. Marib also hosts nearly one million internally 2:48:29.680 --> 2:48:34.960 displaced persons, and intense clashes are expected to displace thousands more. 2:48:35.879 --> 2:48:39.640 By Marche, the conflict between the Hattie government and the 2:48:39.680 --> 2:48:44.920 Hoothies escalates in Marib. The fighting coincides with ongoing Hoothie 2:48:44.959 --> 2:48:48.800 missile and drone attacks against Saudi oil facilities, airports and 2:48:48.879 --> 2:48:53.320 air bases. Saudi Arabia retaliates with air strikes, particularly in 2:48:53.360 --> 2:48:57.279 the capital of Senna. The US then condemns the Hoothies 2:48:57.280 --> 2:49:01.520 actions riyad Ak Saudi arab Yeah. They propose a ceasefire, 2:49:01.840 --> 2:49:04.840 and this ceasefire would include the reopening of the Judaida 2:49:04.920 --> 2:49:08.960 Seaport and the Senna Airport. Who's these reject this proposal 2:49:09.200 --> 2:49:11.640 on the grounds that a full lifting of the ongoing 2:49:11.680 --> 2:49:16.520 blockade is a prerequisite for any such agreement. Between April 2:49:16.560 --> 2:49:21.320 and May one, strikes and counter strikes continue and they escalate. 2:49:21.879 --> 2:49:25.000 Both the U N Security Council and Ron's Foreign Minister 2:49:25.200 --> 2:49:29.200 Mohammad Javad Zadiv they voiced their support for the ceasefire 2:49:29.280 --> 2:49:33.680 between the various Yemeni forces. A discussion takes place between 2:49:33.959 --> 2:49:37.480 the Saudi Crown Prince mohammedd bsen Man and the us 2:49:37.560 --> 2:49:41.119 IS Special Envoy for Yemen, Tim Lender King. Lender King 2:49:41.200 --> 2:49:44.080 pushes for the Saudi Live Coalition to loosen the blockade 2:49:44.160 --> 2:49:48.200 on Jodeida and Senna. The u N Special Envoy for 2:49:48.320 --> 2:49:52.800 Yemen is Martin Griffiths at this point, and he's a 2:49:52.840 --> 2:49:56.959 British diplomat, so the us IS Special Envoy is Lender King. 2:49:57.400 --> 2:50:01.119 The u N s is Griffiths, and the Hoothies refused 2:50:01.160 --> 2:50:04.440 to meet with the u N Special Envoy to discuss 2:50:04.480 --> 2:50:07.840 any kind of the escalation of the conflict. We're now 2:50:07.959 --> 2:50:12.480 in auguste and a Hoothie attack wounds eight civilians on 2:50:12.560 --> 2:50:16.920 Saudi soil and it damages a commercial airliner. Amid continued 2:50:16.959 --> 2:50:20.320 attacks like this from the Hoothy rebels, the Biden administration 2:50:20.400 --> 2:50:24.120 withdraws and removes its most advanced missile defense systems from 2:50:24.160 --> 2:50:28.959 Saudi Arabia. Also by August of last year, nearly twenty 2:50:29.080 --> 2:50:34.200 million people, or two thirds of Yemen's entire population, are 2:50:34.320 --> 2:50:39.199 dependent on humanitarian aid for their daily needs. This includes 2:50:39.480 --> 2:50:43.280 very basic things like water and food and shelter, electricity, 2:50:43.440 --> 2:50:48.280 medical care, Martin Griffiths says that five million Yemenis are 2:50:48.400 --> 2:50:52.360 quote one step away from succumbing to famine and the 2:50:52.480 --> 2:50:56.400 diseases that go with it. As Hoothies continue to gain 2:50:56.520 --> 2:51:00.240 ground against Taddi government forces in Marib. The kind Tree 2:51:00.280 --> 2:51:03.680 of Oman It's also officially called the Sultanate of Oman. 2:51:04.160 --> 2:51:07.880 It's an Arabian country located in southwestern Asia at the 2:51:07.920 --> 2:51:11.480 Persian Gulf. So a Man attempts to broker a peace 2:51:11.560 --> 2:51:16.519 deal between Saudi Arabia and the Hoothies. Hoothy negotiators refused 2:51:16.560 --> 2:51:19.880 to meet with the newly appointed UN Special Envoy for Yemen, 2:51:20.040 --> 2:51:23.760 Hans Gruenberg, before the Saudi led coalition commits to the 2:51:23.840 --> 2:51:28.200 full lifting of the blockade on Jodda and Senna. After 2:51:28.680 --> 2:51:33.440 a very fleeting lull in hostilities in September of last year, 2:51:33.520 --> 2:51:36.680 the Hoothie rebels renew their offensive in the Marib government. 2:51:37.600 --> 2:51:40.160 The habit is a key district in the south of 2:51:40.240 --> 2:51:44.520 the city of Marib, and government forces had previously recaptured 2:51:44.600 --> 2:51:49.280 the habit from Hoothie control in July one, but in 2:51:49.400 --> 2:51:52.920 September the Hoothy rebels capture it again, and they continue 2:51:52.920 --> 2:51:56.400 their offensive in the Battle for Marib City. At this 2:51:56.520 --> 2:51:59.040 point in the timeline, the MNY people are taking to 2:51:59.120 --> 2:52:02.520 the streets and testing over the collapse of Yemen's currency 2:52:03.000 --> 2:52:08.080 and the inaccessibility for basic daily necessities. Government security forces 2:52:08.160 --> 2:52:12.320 forcefully respond to these widespread protests across southern Yemen, and 2:52:12.440 --> 2:52:18.160 this at the time kills three protesters. On September eight one, 2:52:18.720 --> 2:52:22.760 the WHO the execute nine people on charges of involvement 2:52:22.879 --> 2:52:26.360 in the Saudi like Coalition air strike of April twousand eighteen. 2:52:26.959 --> 2:52:30.640 This strike had killed Salva highly A Cement, who was 2:52:30.840 --> 2:52:34.880 the Who's the aligned de facto president of Yemen. A 2:52:34.959 --> 2:52:38.040 week or so later, on September seven of last year, 2:52:38.360 --> 2:52:41.760 a U s official delegation is formed and it includes 2:52:41.920 --> 2:52:46.199 the National Security Advisor Jake Sullivan, the Special Envoy to Yemen, 2:52:46.280 --> 2:52:49.920 Timothy Lender King in the National Security Council's Coordinator for 2:52:49.959 --> 2:52:54.160 the Middle East and North Africa, Brett McGurk. This delegation 2:52:54.360 --> 2:52:58.120 goes to meet with Saudi Arabia's Mahamanisman as well as 2:52:58.160 --> 2:53:03.320 Saudi Arabia's Deputy Defense Minister, and this is done in 2:53:03.440 --> 2:53:07.480 an attempt for a diplomatic solution for the Yemen conflict. 2:53:08.280 --> 2:53:12.200 By October one, the U N Human Rights Council votes 2:53:12.240 --> 2:53:16.280 against renewing the mandate for the Group of Eminent International 2:53:16.360 --> 2:53:19.360 and Regional Experts on the Yemen a k A. This 2:53:19.480 --> 2:53:22.080 is called the g e e UM and it had 2:53:22.120 --> 2:53:25.760 previously been the only independent body that was monitoring all 2:53:25.920 --> 2:53:30.879 parties to the conflict. An investigation in reported possible war 2:53:31.000 --> 2:53:34.800 crimes committed by all parties in Saudi Arabia had been 2:53:34.840 --> 2:53:39.360 accused of attempting to shut down the investigation. Clashes are 2:53:39.400 --> 2:53:42.119 continuing in Marib at this point between the Haddi government 2:53:42.200 --> 2:53:45.440 forces and the Houthies. By October seventeenth of last year, 2:53:45.520 --> 2:53:48.840 the Hoothies gained control of three districts in the Chebua 2:53:48.959 --> 2:53:53.439 government as well as two districts of the Marib government. Basically, 2:53:54.120 --> 2:53:57.600 they're slowly capturing district after districts in their efforts to 2:53:57.680 --> 2:54:02.240 have full control. In Nomber of One, the Hoothies sees 2:54:02.400 --> 2:54:05.320 the former site of the U. S Embassy in Senna 2:54:05.840 --> 2:54:10.160 and it detains its local employees. United States calls for 2:54:10.600 --> 2:54:13.360 the immediate release of these employees and it demands that 2:54:13.440 --> 2:54:17.880 the Hoothies vacate the premises, who the spokesperson announces the 2:54:17.959 --> 2:54:21.199 capture of two more districts in Marib, after already taking 2:54:21.360 --> 2:54:25.080 two other ones the month prior. Government forces prepared to 2:54:25.200 --> 2:54:29.040 defend their last remaining northern stronghold a k A Marib 2:54:29.120 --> 2:54:33.160 City and some two million civilians at this point are 2:54:33.240 --> 2:54:39.760 now trapped in the Marib governorate. Coalition aligned forces abandoned 2:54:39.800 --> 2:54:42.640 their position in the port city of Hohodeida, and this 2:54:42.800 --> 2:54:47.080 allows the rebels to retake the city. A ceasefire agreement 2:54:47.160 --> 2:54:50.320 had prohibited fighting between the two sides, and the government 2:54:50.400 --> 2:54:53.360 forces state that they are withdrawing troops from Houdeida to 2:54:53.480 --> 2:54:58.080 send them to reinforce the front lines. Okay, last year 2:54:58.120 --> 2:55:02.880 I break, here we go, but m we're back. Okay, 2:55:03.280 --> 2:55:07.680 we're wrapping out one and in December of last year, 2:55:07.879 --> 2:55:11.440 due to following international funding, the World Food Program the 2:55:11.680 --> 2:55:16.440 WFP cuts food aid tm in In November one, the 2:55:16.680 --> 2:55:21.480 WFP had targeted eleven point one million dollars for food assistance, 2:55:22.000 --> 2:55:25.840 but as the humanitarian situation deteriorates, the cost of food 2:55:26.000 --> 2:55:30.360 dramatically increases and becomes even harder to access. In the 2:55:30.440 --> 2:55:35.320 early months of January and February, the Hoothie rebels launched 2:55:35.400 --> 2:55:39.680 a series of unprecedented attacks against the UAE and Saudi Arabia. 2:55:40.240 --> 2:55:43.320 This included air attacks across the border and the seizing 2:55:43.440 --> 2:55:45.360 of a u A E vessel in the Red Sea. 2:55:46.160 --> 2:55:49.120 The Saudi Let Coalition response to these attacks with a 2:55:49.240 --> 2:55:52.840 bombing campaign and senna an attack on a northern prison 2:55:53.080 --> 2:55:56.960 and a strike on a telecomps facility in Hoodeta. This 2:55:57.120 --> 2:56:00.959 results in a four day internet blackout across the country 2:56:01.600 --> 2:56:05.480 and at this point ua E backed forces regained control 2:56:05.680 --> 2:56:09.280 of some areas near marib On February twenty three of 2:56:09.360 --> 2:56:12.879 this year, the U S Treasury Department announced new sanctions 2:56:12.959 --> 2:56:16.600 against individuals involved in a funding network for the Hoothies. 2:56:17.320 --> 2:56:20.280 During this time, the u N Security Council renewed for 2:56:20.720 --> 2:56:25.080 one year it's arms embargo on Yemen and continue to 2:56:25.160 --> 2:56:28.640 travel band and asset freeze on actors who threatened the piece. 2:56:29.240 --> 2:56:32.160 The Council condemns the Hoothie attacks on Saudi Arabia and 2:56:32.200 --> 2:56:37.200 the UAE that struck civilians and civilian infrastructure. Four countries 2:56:37.280 --> 2:56:39.920 in the u N abstained from this u N Security 2:56:39.959 --> 2:56:44.640 Council decision, and those four countries are Mexico, Ireland, Norway 2:56:44.760 --> 2:56:48.440 and Russia. On March six, the Hoothies reach an agreement 2:56:48.560 --> 2:56:50.879 with the United Nations to address the issue of an 2:56:50.920 --> 2:56:53.960 abandoned oil tanker in the Red Sea, the fs O 2:56:54.120 --> 2:56:57.720 Safer that pose a threat of a massive oil spill. 2:56:58.520 --> 2:57:02.120 The World Food Program declares that the humanitarian situation in 2:57:02.200 --> 2:57:05.360 Yemen is worsening because of the Russian war on Ukraine 2:57:05.840 --> 2:57:10.080 and the Whothies continue their attacks against Saudi oil facilities 2:57:10.200 --> 2:57:14.360 while the coalition continues its strikes against Senna and Judeida. 2:57:15.400 --> 2:57:18.520 Talks that are sponsored by the Gulf Corporation Council in 2:57:18.600 --> 2:57:22.440 the Yard begin between various parties to the Yemen conflict. 2:57:22.840 --> 2:57:25.920 The who these declined to participate in this, stating that 2:57:26.160 --> 2:57:29.520 these talks should be held in a neutral country. That 2:57:29.680 --> 2:57:33.760 same day, Sadi Arabia announces the secession of all military 2:57:33.800 --> 2:57:39.400 operations and Yemen as of March of this year. In April, 2:57:39.480 --> 2:57:42.000 the U n brokered a two month truce between the 2:57:42.080 --> 2:57:45.000 warring parties that was to start with the holy month 2:57:45.080 --> 2:57:49.200 of Ramadan for Muslims. The agreement was a notable step 2:57:49.280 --> 2:57:54.040 toward peace, as the last nationwide coordinated sensation of hostilities 2:57:54.480 --> 2:57:58.959 was during the peace talks in As these peace efforts 2:57:59.040 --> 2:58:03.120 gained traction with a two month cease fire exile, President 2:58:03.720 --> 2:58:07.880 menso had He transfers powers to a new Presidential Leadership Council. 2:58:08.400 --> 2:58:11.840 This council is led by a Shad E lalami Uh 2:58:12.000 --> 2:58:14.040 and members of the council were selected at a g 2:58:14.200 --> 2:58:18.400 c C sponsored talk in Ryab. It also includes those 2:58:18.560 --> 2:58:22.840 associated with the secessionist Southern Transitional Council, as well as 2:58:22.920 --> 2:58:25.720 those that were formerly part of the government under Haddie. 2:58:26.360 --> 2:58:30.520 Hadd He fires Vice President Daili Mussain e Lahmar, who 2:58:30.640 --> 2:58:34.400 has long been resented by the Hoothies, and Haddi delegates 2:58:34.440 --> 2:58:38.320 his powers to the Presidential Council. After the transfer of 2:58:38.400 --> 2:58:40.760 power is announced, Saudi Arabia and the U a E 2:58:41.000 --> 2:58:44.600 say they will provide three billion dollars to support Yemen's 2:58:44.680 --> 2:58:51.039 decimated economy. Despite a two month troops Hoothy forces resume 2:58:51.120 --> 2:58:53.800 attacks on the front lines of the battle from Marib, 2:58:54.240 --> 2:58:58.199 which had previously been static since February, and this happens 2:58:58.280 --> 2:59:00.560 after the U a E backed forces is pushed the 2:59:00.640 --> 2:59:03.680 Hoothies out of the center of one of the districts 2:59:03.720 --> 2:59:07.280 in my Rib, the Hareb District. It's during this time 2:59:07.360 --> 2:59:10.600 that the Hoothies also signed a action plan to prevent 2:59:10.680 --> 2:59:14.000 the recruitment and the use of children in the armed conflict. 2:59:14.480 --> 2:59:18.560 A senior Hoothy military official had said in that the 2:59:18.680 --> 2:59:23.360 group inducted eighteen thousand child soldiers into its army, some 2:59:23.560 --> 2:59:27.320 of whom were as young as ten years old. That's 2:59:27.360 --> 2:59:31.640 a that's a baby. Oh my gosh, it's really My 2:59:31.800 --> 2:59:35.880 heart hurts all the time. Okay, we're getting close to 2:59:35.959 --> 2:59:39.560 modern times here. In August of this year, the head 2:59:39.680 --> 2:59:44.680 of Yemen's Presidential Leadership Council, Alalami, he ordered the UAE 2:59:44.840 --> 2:59:48.560 back separatists to stop military operations in the Yemen's South. 2:59:49.400 --> 2:59:52.240 This notice was issued to the head of the STC 2:59:52.520 --> 2:59:54.960 and it was seen as an attempt by Alami to 2:59:55.040 --> 2:59:58.600 step in and stop an STC campaign against the rival 2:59:58.680 --> 3:00:03.000 factions within the government umbrella, and this would include Yemen's 3:00:03.160 --> 3:00:07.280 ISLAP Party. He said that all military operations should be 3:00:07.440 --> 3:00:11.600 stopped until the implementation of a troop redeployment in Yemen's South, 3:00:12.080 --> 3:00:14.360 and this was something that was stipulated in a power 3:00:14.440 --> 3:00:17.120 sharing agreement from twenty nineteen, and he wanted this to 3:00:17.160 --> 3:00:20.920 be fully implemented before they moved forward. These divisions within 3:00:21.040 --> 3:00:25.760 the Council really exposed its precarious nature because all the 3:00:25.800 --> 3:00:29.640 members are often ideologically opposed and they're only united by 3:00:29.680 --> 3:00:32.920 the opposition that they have to the Iran allied Hohothies 3:00:33.160 --> 3:00:35.160 as well as the support that they have from the 3:00:35.240 --> 3:00:40.200 Saudi led military coalition. In the southern Cheboa Governorate, which 3:00:40.280 --> 3:00:44.320 is a very resource rich area, the STC has made 3:00:44.360 --> 3:00:47.280 gains against the Slab Party and it's said in September, 3:00:47.879 --> 3:00:50.840 which is right now, that it had launched a quote 3:00:50.920 --> 3:00:55.080 anti terror operation in Chebwa's neighboring governorate of A Bienne. 3:00:55.640 --> 3:00:59.879 This operation, according to them, would quote cleanse of Bienne 3:01:00.040 --> 3:01:03.720 of terrorist organizations, which would include al Qaeda, while also 3:01:03.840 --> 3:01:08.359 securing Yemen's temporary capital of Aden and other southern governorates. 3:01:09.640 --> 3:01:14.240 After the Hoothies kind of invaded this governor. In the 3:01:14.440 --> 3:01:17.560 STC and other pro ua E factions, they blamed the 3:01:17.640 --> 3:01:21.600 Isla party for allowing the Hoothy advance. The removal of 3:01:21.680 --> 3:01:26.600 an ISLA aligned governor Mohammad Sawado in December of last year. 3:01:26.879 --> 3:01:31.360 This cemented the ascendancy of pro UAE forces, but the 3:01:31.440 --> 3:01:35.520 instability in the south of Yemen really complicates any kind 3:01:35.600 --> 3:01:38.600 of u and effort for a permanent ceasefire or an 3:01:38.640 --> 3:01:42.120 attempt to pave the way for political negotiations to end 3:01:42.160 --> 3:01:45.720 the war. The u N broker ceasefire agreement that we 3:01:45.800 --> 3:01:49.160 talked about being implemented in April this year a k Ramadan. 3:01:49.640 --> 3:01:52.920 It has drastically reduced the fighting between the two sides, 3:01:53.200 --> 3:01:57.119 but the outbreaks of violence still continue. This month, al 3:01:57.200 --> 3:02:01.680 Qaeda attacks killed at least thirty sold errs. The STC, 3:02:02.040 --> 3:02:06.240 which again is Yemen's main southern separatist group, is backed 3:02:06.280 --> 3:02:09.440 by the UAE and last month it expanded its presence 3:02:09.520 --> 3:02:12.840 throughout the Southern Abian province and what it described as 3:02:12.879 --> 3:02:17.000 a move to quote combat terrorist organizations and it's singling 3:02:17.080 --> 3:02:20.880 out al Qaeda. In a series of tweets, the STC 3:02:21.040 --> 3:02:24.640 dominated Security Belt said that six al Qaeda fighters were 3:02:24.720 --> 3:02:27.520 killed after the group launched a quote terrorist attack on 3:02:27.600 --> 3:02:32.120 its forces in the Ahua district in Ebion. It also 3:02:32.200 --> 3:02:35.160 added that yas said Nassai Shai, who was a commander 3:02:35.280 --> 3:02:38.800 belonging to the Security Belt quote anti terror brigade. It 3:02:38.920 --> 3:02:41.280 said that he was killed in the attack along with 3:02:41.480 --> 3:02:44.840 a number of his companions. I just wanted to bring 3:02:44.920 --> 3:02:48.840 in that little news because it just kind of happened 3:02:48.879 --> 3:02:52.440 this month, and obviously things are continuing to happen and 3:02:53.560 --> 3:02:57.879 it changes month after month, as you can tell. I'm 3:02:57.959 --> 3:03:03.120 laughing because it's said. Ut. Hopefully this gives some context 3:03:03.400 --> 3:03:06.680 to why Yemen is struggling so much, and I want 3:03:06.720 --> 3:03:10.880 to read some of the stuff, some of the statistics 3:03:10.959 --> 3:03:14.720 about Yemen really quick, because the scale of this is 3:03:14.840 --> 3:03:18.720 so immense. So this is from the World Food Program's website. 3:03:19.640 --> 3:03:23.440 The w FPS emergency response in Yemen is our largest 3:03:23.520 --> 3:03:26.520 anywhere in the world. The current level of hunger and 3:03:26.640 --> 3:03:30.640 Yemen is unprecedented and is causing severe hardship for millions 3:03:30.680 --> 3:03:36.400 of people. Despite ongoing commanitarian assistance, seventeen point four million 3:03:36.520 --> 3:03:39.600 Yeminies are food and secure. The number of food and 3:03:39.680 --> 3:03:43.000 secure people is projected to go up to nineteen million 3:03:43.240 --> 3:03:48.240 by December. The rate of child malnutrition is one of 3:03:48.320 --> 3:03:52.240 the highest in the world, and the nutrition situation continues 3:03:52.320 --> 3:03:56.560 to deteriorate. A recent survey showed that almost one third 3:03:56.640 --> 3:03:59.680 of families have gaps in their diets and hardly ever 3:04:00.000 --> 3:04:04.400 sumed foods like vegetables, fruit, dairy products, or meat or 3:04:04.480 --> 3:04:10.160 pulses a k a. Beans, peas, and lagoons. Malnutrition rates 3:04:10.160 --> 3:04:13.320 among women and children and Yemen remain among the highest 3:04:13.360 --> 3:04:16.440 in the world, with one point three million pregnant or 3:04:16.440 --> 3:04:20.040 breastfeeding women and two point two million children under five 3:04:20.440 --> 3:04:25.480 requiring treatment for acute malnutrition. Sometimes I think we can 3:04:25.560 --> 3:04:31.920 forget how many people is in a little statistic millions 3:04:32.000 --> 3:04:35.879 of people were talking. Two point two million children, one 3:04:35.959 --> 3:04:42.240 point three million pregnant or breastfeeding women. Just that number 3:04:42.360 --> 3:04:44.959 is so immense I can't comprehend it. And the fact 3:04:45.000 --> 3:04:47.119 that this is protected to go up by nineteen million 3:04:47.520 --> 3:04:52.360 in general for all yemen ease by December is devastating. 3:04:52.600 --> 3:04:57.440 And I think remembering how big numbers are, as elementary 3:04:57.480 --> 3:05:00.640 as that sounds, is pretty important for time to time, 3:05:00.680 --> 3:05:02.280 because I think at this point we are kind of 3:05:02.440 --> 3:05:06.480 unphased by numbers. But let me continue from the World 3:05:06.720 --> 3:05:09.800 Food Programs website really quick and wrap this all up. 3:05:10.760 --> 3:05:14.480 The humanitarian situation in Yemen is extremely fragile, and any 3:05:14.560 --> 3:05:18.560 disruption of the pipeline of critical supplies such as food, fuel, 3:05:18.600 --> 3:05:21.760 and medicines has the potential to bring millions of people 3:05:21.959 --> 3:05:27.640 closer to starvation and death. The WFP calls for unimpeded 3:05:27.680 --> 3:05:31.240 access to reach those most in need and avert famine. 3:05:32.480 --> 3:05:36.959 So here we are in a quick bury depressing submarine. 3:05:37.720 --> 3:05:41.400 Since twenty sixteen, a food in security crisis has been 3:05:41.480 --> 3:05:45.160 ongoing in Yemen, and this began during the Yemeni Civil War. 3:05:46.560 --> 3:05:49.280 The current level of hunger and Yemen is unprecedented and 3:05:49.440 --> 3:05:53.520 is causing severe hardship for millions of people. And despite 3:05:53.560 --> 3:05:58.360 ongoing humanitarian assistance, seventeen point four million Yemenis at this 3:05:58.480 --> 3:06:01.360 point in time our food instcut year, and this number 3:06:01.440 --> 3:06:03.600 of food and secure people is projected to go up 3:06:03.720 --> 3:06:09.200 by nineteen million by December. Maybe I'm being repetitive, but 3:06:09.240 --> 3:06:12.720 I think it's important to comprehend the crisis in Yemen 3:06:13.040 --> 3:06:15.360 is one of the most dire crises in the world, 3:06:16.160 --> 3:06:20.760 and this is brought on by protracted conflict, droughts, floods 3:06:20.800 --> 3:06:24.320 that are intensified by the climate crisis, COVID nineteen and 3:06:24.480 --> 3:06:28.560 other diseases. And despite all of this tragedy that we've 3:06:28.600 --> 3:06:35.199 been talking about, despite this humanitarian criminal thing that is happening, 3:06:35.720 --> 3:06:39.160 Yemen has failed to attract adequate support from donors for 3:06:39.400 --> 3:06:45.840 years and now it risks slipping further into oblivion. What 3:06:45.959 --> 3:06:49.680 a terrible depressing way to end this podcast, but I 3:06:49.760 --> 3:06:52.680 really do hope that these episodes at least gave you 3:06:52.959 --> 3:06:55.680 more awareness about what's going on in Yemen and just 3:06:55.800 --> 3:06:59.600 how dire the situation is. And there are so many 3:06:59.680 --> 3:07:01.680 com it's in the world. There are so many causes 3:07:01.760 --> 3:07:05.039 that deserve our attention, obviously, but I do think it's 3:07:05.040 --> 3:07:07.560 important from time to time to think about the causes 3:07:07.680 --> 3:07:10.480 that you may not be affected by and remember that 3:07:10.520 --> 3:07:14.160 everyone is human just like you and the privilege that 3:07:14.240 --> 3:07:18.240 you have um if you choose to engage with your 3:07:18.280 --> 3:07:21.320 privilege and use it for good, can make a huge 3:07:21.400 --> 3:07:25.640 difference to people that need assistance. At this point, I'm 3:07:25.680 --> 3:07:28.760 going to start rambling, so before I do that, I 3:07:28.840 --> 3:07:31.080 just want to thank you for paying attention to my 3:07:31.760 --> 3:07:37.520 PROFESSORI talk and saying that office hours are now closed. 3:07:38.160 --> 3:07:47.640 Good eye. Hey. We'll be back Monday with more episodes 3:07:47.800 --> 3:07:50.279 every week from now until the heat death of the universe. 3:07:50.879 --> 3:07:53.240 It could happen. Here is a production of cool Zone Media. 3:07:53.480 --> 3:07:56.120 For more podcasts and cool Zone Media, visit our website 3:07:56.160 --> 3:07:58.280 cool zone media dot com, or check us out on 3:07:58.320 --> 3:08:00.680 the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast Us, or wherever 3:08:00.800 --> 3:08:03.280 you listen to podcasts. You can find sources for it 3:08:03.360 --> 3:08:06.240 could happen here. Updated monthly at cool Zone Media dot 3:08:06.320 --> 3:08:08.440 com slash Sources. Thanks for listening.