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Speaker 1: I'm a Cape Verdian living in America. My family made

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Speaker 1: sacrifices so I could have this life, and it was

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Speaker 1: from my family stories that I first learned of our

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Speaker 1: history with sweet Daddy Grace. In short, my family isn't

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Speaker 1: particularly so enthused about.

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Speaker 2: Our connection to him.

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Speaker 1: They would prefer to keep their distance from this charismatic

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Speaker 1: and controversial preacher. My aunt Judy remembers some of the

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Speaker 1: things her grandfather, Nola Locke said about Bishop Grace.

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Speaker 3: He did say that originally that Daddy Grace he felt

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Speaker 3: he was legit, that he was a legitimate, a man

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Speaker 3: of the word, But then somewhere down the line he

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Speaker 3: went off that and became cultish.

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Speaker 1: This feeling of distrust continued through the generations.

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Speaker 4: My parents, you know, they had nothing to do with

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Speaker 4: him or his so called religion. Strangely enough, my father's

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Speaker 4: first cousins were followers of Daddy Grace, and there were

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Speaker 4: stories that were told. Whether they were true or not,

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Speaker 4: I don't know, but my father said that one of

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Speaker 4: his cousins was told that she was an angel, and

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Speaker 4: she was at church and she decided to jump off

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Speaker 4: the platform, and in so doing fell and broke her wrist.

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Speaker 1: But when I heard these stories about him, it had

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Speaker 1: the opposite effect.

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Speaker 2: They just made me.

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Speaker 1: More curious and I needed to know more. So I

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Speaker 1: booked a flight to Charlotte in the midst of a

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Speaker 1: hurricane to attend the House of Prayer's annual convocation. It's

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Speaker 1: the church's biggest celebration, so what a perfect time for

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Speaker 1: me to get to know the church from the inside.

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Speaker 1: I'm Marcy de Pena and from iHeart Podcasts, Enforce and

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Speaker 1: Media group. This is sweet Daddy, Grace.

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Speaker 5: Good, glad for being happy, Power, You're glad, Ahamada, are happy,

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Speaker 5: down and cried.

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Speaker 6: We're b.

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Speaker 1: I am in the parking lot of the Charlotte Mother

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Speaker 1: House of the United House of Prayer for All People.

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Speaker 1: The convocation starts today. I actually feel a little nervous.

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Speaker 1: I'm not sure why. I'm trying to remember actually the

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Speaker 1: last time I was in church. It's been a while.

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Speaker 1: My relationship to organized religion, like many people's, is a

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Speaker 1: bit complicated. My father completely distanced himself from his strict

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Speaker 1: Church of the Nazarene upbringing. My mother, on the other hand,

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Speaker 1: was a C and E Catholic, that's a Christmas and

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Speaker 1: Eastern Catholic. My parents and I, we didn't talk a

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Speaker 1: lot about church. Instead, my mother taught me all about astrology.

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Speaker 1: She instructed me in the power of plant medicine. She

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Speaker 1: gave me an education in the power of music. Those

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Speaker 1: became my church. Also, as a Cape Verdean, I've always

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Speaker 1: worn a sabichi or quante d I old you, a

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Speaker 1: bead that protects you from evil spirits.

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Speaker 2: We have a lot of spiritual practices and.

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Speaker 1: Rituals that have nothing to do with Christianity, but are

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Speaker 1: also not in conflict with it. There has always been

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Speaker 1: an awareness of this spirit world, our ancestors, and the

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Speaker 1: power of words and manifestation, And for as long as

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Speaker 1: I can remember, I've had intuitive, lucid dreams.

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Speaker 2: My mother shared this gift.

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Speaker 1: While we may not have gone to church, she and

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Speaker 1: I often spoke about our inseparable connections to spirit. In

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Speaker 1: other words, we talked that hippie shit. So you can

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Speaker 1: imagine my surprise when, while I was in third grade,

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Speaker 1: my mother and stepfather chose to become born again Christians.

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Speaker 1: They got saved, and let me just say, that opened

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Speaker 1: up a whole other world. That's when we started going

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Speaker 1: to revivals and services one hot summer day, we attended

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Speaker 1: a big tent revival in Boston. It was led by

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Speaker 1: a Nigerian pastor. I remember the feeling of the humid

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Speaker 1: air and the sound of the bugs and the throb

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Speaker 1: of life that children are particularly attuned to. The tent

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Speaker 1: was large and packed to the brim. My family and

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Speaker 1: I we were seated in the middle. There was a

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Speaker 1: band upfront. The music was operating on high vibration. You

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Speaker 1: could feel the energy thrilled through the crowd. I could

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Speaker 1: feel the frequency pulsating throughout my little body too. When

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Speaker 1: the music calmed and the pastor spoke, I felt the

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Speaker 1: spirit moving through her.

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Speaker 2: I was riveted. I was enraptured.

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Speaker 1: She made the call asking if anyone wanted to be saved.

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Speaker 1: I did not hesitate. I popped up out of my

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Speaker 1: seat and walked up to the front of the sanctuary

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Speaker 1: as fast as my little legs could get me there.

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Speaker 1: I stood there before everybody in this packed tent, the

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Speaker 1: only child in a line of adults and teens. We

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Speaker 1: were calm and ready. The pastor walked down the line

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Speaker 1: asking us to accept Jesus into our hearts as our

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Speaker 1: Lord and savior. When the pastor got to me. She

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Speaker 1: reached down and touched my forehead and I fell out.

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Speaker 1: When I got back up, I felt like a different person.

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Speaker 1: When I got back to my seat, my mother told

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Speaker 1: me that I had been speaking in tongues. I don't

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Speaker 1: think my eight year old self knew how to articulate

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Speaker 1: what I'd experienced, but it felt like a profound light

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Speaker 1: had washed over me, and I knew in that moment,

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Speaker 1: without a single doubt in my tiny little body, I

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Speaker 1: had spiritual gifts. From that point on, the church and

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Speaker 1: our faith became a big part of our lives. We

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Speaker 1: attended multiple services a week. We went to Bible study

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Speaker 1: and pot luck dinners. My mom was a music minister

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Speaker 1: and I sang in the choir. It was our community.

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Speaker 1: It felt like every day I was doing something related

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Speaker 1: to church.

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Speaker 2: And let me tell you, the rules were strict.

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Speaker 1: For one, we weren't allowed to listen to secular music,

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Speaker 1: and I loved Prince, so this was a serious conflict.

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Speaker 1: I couldn't dress up anymore on Halloween, that was a

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Speaker 1: demonic holiday. We were expected to only hang out with

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Speaker 1: other church goers. It didn't matter that I was a kid,

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Speaker 1: I had my spiritual life to consider. We were constantly

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Speaker 1: repenting for our sins. We stayed ready for Jesus's return

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Speaker 1: in the rapture. But as I reached adolescence, I began

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Speaker 1: to read and study Black in African history, and my

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Speaker 1: curiosity about spirituality expanded. I learned more about traditional African

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Speaker 1: spiritual practices and recognized many beliefs and customs that were

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Speaker 1: also part of Cape Verdean culture. I also came to

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Speaker 1: know the influence of Islam, Buddhism, and other systems of

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Speaker 1: mysticism and thought, like numerology, and my passion for astrology,

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Speaker 1: something I had given up since my conversion, was reignited.

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Speaker 1: All that I learned challenged the notion that there was

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Speaker 1: only one true religion and if you weren't saved, you

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Speaker 1: were going to Hell soon enough, though, I moved away

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Speaker 1: to go to college, and like so many other first

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Speaker 1: year college students, that pretty much marked the end of

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Speaker 1: my church going days. All of this was swirling around

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Speaker 1: inside of me when I parked my car outside the

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Speaker 1: United House of Prayer in Charlotte, North Carolina. Meanwhile, at

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Speaker 1: the same time, Hurricane Ian, a hurricane that began in

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Speaker 1: the Atlantic waters surrounding Kabovid was heading into town. Both

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Speaker 1: inside of me and outside, a storm was gathering. Six

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Speaker 1: years had passed since the last time I stepped inside

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Speaker 1: of a church. I didn't know what was going to happen.

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Speaker 1: Would I feel the presence of God? Would it feel

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Speaker 1: like a coat?

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Speaker 2: Or worse?

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Speaker 1: What if I felt nothing at all? I once heard

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Speaker 1: a story. Daddy Grace never intended to live in the

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Speaker 1: United States. He only meant to come here seasonally, do

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Speaker 1: some work, and return to Kabovid with fresh coin in

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Speaker 1: his pockets. This was long before he was known as

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Speaker 1: Sweet Daddy Grace. He was happy on his home island

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Speaker 1: of Brava, where he was already al vocal celebrity. Young

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Speaker 1: Marcellino Manuel de Grasa was known for his storytelling abilities.

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Speaker 2: People would come.

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Speaker 1: From around the island to hear him tell folk tales.

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Speaker 1: He was determined to stay in Brava right up until

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Speaker 1: God told him this wasn't an option. To convey this message,

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Speaker 1: God turned to fire one day out of nowhere, Marcellino's

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Speaker 1: hair started burning. He immediately knew it was God speaking

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Speaker 1: to him. God told him that if he did not

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Speaker 1: go to America and spread the word, he would have

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Speaker 1: no hair left. Marcellino had no choice. In nineteen oh four,

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Speaker 1: he left cabuverd and he'd never return. Weeks later he

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Speaker 1: arrived in New Bedford, Massachusetts. It may have eased the

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Speaker 1: transition that much of his family was in fact already there,

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Speaker 1: including his brother Joseph, who had founded a church. And

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Speaker 1: still thinking, probably about his burning hair, he began to

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Speaker 1: look for a place to worship. Cape Verdeans were unwelcome

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Speaker 1: in the local Portuguese Catholic church, so he explored the

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Speaker 1: area's Protestant churches, including his brothers. As Marcelino Manuel de

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Speaker 1: Grasa settled into life in America, he began to carve

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Speaker 1: out a new identity for himself. First step a new name.

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Speaker 1: His new last name, Grace, was simply a translation of

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Speaker 1: the Grasa from Portuguese to English. He kept his middle

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Speaker 1: name Manuel, but for his new first name, he dreamed

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Speaker 1: big Charles, the King of Portugal, the colonial ruler of

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Speaker 1: Capoved was named Carlos. The root of Charles it means freeman.

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Speaker 1: Daddy Grace was writing his story, so Charles Manuel Grace

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Speaker 1: attended church service.

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Speaker 2: After church service.

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Speaker 1: Pentecostal Baptist, Methodist studying the Bible and sometimes even preaching

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Speaker 1: at his brother's chapel.

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Speaker 2: He was searching for a church that spoke to his soul.

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Speaker 1: He also got married to a Cape Verdian woman named Jeanie.

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Speaker 1: They had a daughter, Irene and a son, Norman, but

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Speaker 1: the marriage was rocky, and shortly after Norman was born,

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Speaker 1: Daddy Grace left the family. According to him, his wife

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Speaker 1: Genie was not cut out for the spiritual life. She however,

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Speaker 1: said that their discord was because Daddy Grace was paying

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Speaker 1: attention to another woman. Whatever the reason for the demise

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Speaker 1: of their relationship, it set Charles M. Grace on a

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Speaker 1: new path, a journey to find a church where he

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Speaker 1: could fulfill the mission that God sent him to complete,

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Speaker 1: to spread the Gospel in America and save souls. Finally,

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Speaker 1: one day he found his religion. Quite literally, he decided

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Speaker 1: to found his own religion. In nineteen nineteen, Charles Grace

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Speaker 1: founded a church in West Wareham, Massachusetts. He dubbed it

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Speaker 1: the United House of Prayer for All People and gave

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Speaker 1: himself the title of Bishop. Just two years later, he

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Speaker 1: opened a second church in New Bedford. He joined the

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Speaker 1: growing African American Holiness Pentecostal movement sweeping across the country.

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Speaker 1: Black people in America were looking for liberation and hope.

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Speaker 1: But this was not just a time of spiritual awakening

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Speaker 1: among Black Americans. It was also a time of religious change.

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Speaker 1: In the wake of World War One and the ravages

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Speaker 1: of the Spanish flu, people were hungry for a spiritual

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Speaker 1: message that could sustain their souls. It was the time

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Speaker 1: of charismatic pastors, itinerant preachers, and the radio evangelists like

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Speaker 1: Amy Simple McPherson and Billie Sunday. Through the power of

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Speaker 1: mass communication, they broadcast their messages far beyond the tent

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Speaker 1: poles of the revivals. So Bishop Grace took his church

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Speaker 1: on the road, heading south along the Eastern seaboard. By

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Speaker 1: nineteen twenty three, he made his first trip in what

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Speaker 1: he called a gospel car. Daddy Grace didn't invent this idea.

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Speaker 1: Other preachers before him had traveled in special cars. What

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Speaker 1: Daddy Grace did was take the gospel car to another level.

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Speaker 1: He plastered his car with Bible verses. He also decorated

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Speaker 1: it with enormous signs announcing when he'd be in town.

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Speaker 1: There was even a figure on top of the car.

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Speaker 1: It was of himself, robed and winged. The man knew

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Speaker 1: how to make a memorable appearance. He even ventured overseas,

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Speaker 1: spent two months in the Holy Land of Jerusalem, where

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Speaker 1: he preached, healed, and converted people. He built a house

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Speaker 1: of prayer in Egypt. When he returned to the States,

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Speaker 1: he had grown a full beard. Reinvigorated with purpose, Daddy

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Speaker 1: Grace got back on the road to continue his mission

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Speaker 1: and grow his following in America.

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Speaker 6: It is not typical of the time the way he

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Speaker 6: was able to expand in an age when communication was

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Speaker 6: quite difficult. He would travel with little groups of followers

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Speaker 6: and set up this huge experience that turned into a

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Speaker 6: new congregation.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Marie Dallam is a professor of American religion and

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Speaker 1: associate dean at the University of Oklahoma, also the author

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Speaker 1: of one of the few published books about Daddy Grace.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Dollom has always been particularly impressed by Daddy Grace's

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Speaker 1: marketing abilities. For instance, she marvels at his stagecraft. He

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Speaker 1: would travel from town to town, careful to send a

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Speaker 1: small advanced group ahead of him. They'd typically show up

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Speaker 1: armed with musical instruments and loudspeakers. Basically, he invented his

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Speaker 1: own version of the hype man.

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Speaker 6: They'd find a place to set up the tent, they'd

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Speaker 6: do the advertising. They would be the first people at

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Speaker 6: the service to make sure that there were exuberant, enthusiastic

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Speaker 6: people paying attention.

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Speaker 2: This worked for a while, but Daddy Grace had a greater.

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Speaker 1: Vision for his church. He became a master of using

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Speaker 1: the press to get his message out to bigger and

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Speaker 1: bigger crowds. When he'd hit town, Daddy Grace would invite

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Speaker 1: local newspaper men to his sermons. He'd also pay for

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Speaker 1: ads in the same paper touting his healing abilities and

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Speaker 1: his mysterious foreign origins. Sometimes he'd announced that he had

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Speaker 1: returned from the Holy Land. Other times he claimed that

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Speaker 1: he was from the Holy Land. It worked.

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Speaker 2: People came in large numbers.

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Speaker 1: They had to know more about this flashy man with

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Speaker 1: the gospel car the man who claimed he possessed the

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Speaker 1: power to heal and to save them all. Who was

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Speaker 1: this sweet Daddy Grace. It's a question that's not easy

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Speaker 1: to answer, and this enigma was central to his appeal

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Speaker 1: and to his power. He was a pleasing mystery. Daddy

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Speaker 1: Grace may have been happy for others to wonder about him,

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Speaker 1: but he knew who he was and he acted like it.

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Speaker 1: To him, the answer was simple. It was self evident.

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Speaker 1: He was God's disciple sent to save America.

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Speaker 7: It's part of the whole free market of American religion.

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Speaker 7: And he had a product, and he had a message,

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Speaker 7: and he had a style, and it was compelling to

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Speaker 7: lots of people.

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Speaker 1: That's doctor James Fisher, Professor Emeritus of Theology and American

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Speaker 1: Studies at Fordham University.

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Speaker 7: All the people are skeptical about new religious movements like that.

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Speaker 7: People say, oh, it's a cult and that kind of thing, brainwashing,

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Speaker 7: But I always point out that you got to get

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Speaker 7: people more credit for exercising their own free will.

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Speaker 1: Part of what made Daddy Grace so appealing was that

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Speaker 1: both what he said in his sermons and how he

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Speaker 1: said it offered something to almost everyone.

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Speaker 5: You may be black, black as stole, we may be

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Speaker 5: white black milk, we may.

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Speaker 1: Be rich black, I don't know where going have it.

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Speaker 7: For shee God's him. On the one hand, he's really

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Speaker 7: in that holiness Pentecostal tradition. But you can't help but

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Speaker 7: notice there's elements of Catholic ritual. He has almost a

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Speaker 7: Catholic preaching style. So it's a blend, which is everything

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Speaker 7: to be back is, it's a blend. He's just really

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Speaker 7: relatable for many people I think who are seeking, you know.

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Speaker 1: Thinking about it now. The tent revival I attended with

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Speaker 1: my parents back in Boston, the one where I spoke

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Speaker 1: in tongues, It was probably very similar to Daddy Grace's revivals.

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Speaker 1: Joyful praise and powerful music, led by an African immigrant preacher,

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Speaker 1: pulling from many traditions, compelling his audience with rolling tones.

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Speaker 1: His crowd was hopeful, eagerly awaiting salvation. But Daddy Grace

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Speaker 1: wasn't met with open arms everywhere. Some people just trusted

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Speaker 1: this mystery, this fluidity. After all, this was the nineteen

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Speaker 1: twenties and nineteen thirties, a time of the snake oil salesman,

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Speaker 1: of illusionists, of hucksters who were just in it for

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Speaker 1: the money.

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Speaker 8: He comes out on the religious scene in the late twenties.

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Speaker 8: This whole jack leg preacher debate going on in American culture,

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Speaker 8: where you get things like that Charlatan preacher who goes

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Speaker 8: from city to city, town to town and robs the people,

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Speaker 8: promises them all these fantastic things.

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Speaker 1: That's Xavier Sivell's. He's a doctoral student at Mississippi State studying,

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Speaker 1: among other things, African American history, including the intersection of race, class,

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Speaker 1: sexual identity, and gender.

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Speaker 8: And I think those are the things that people stuck to,

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Speaker 8: you know, and maybe that's how we get interesting stories.

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Speaker 1: Xavier is familiar with these stories about Daddy Grace. He's

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Speaker 1: even heard some of them from his own grandmother, whose

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Speaker 1: parents were members of the House of Prayer in Norfolk, Virginia.

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Speaker 8: My grandmother used to tell this story about she had

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Speaker 8: heard from her parents that he went out on the

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Speaker 8: James River and had set up some sort of contraction

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Speaker 8: to where it looked like he was walking on water,

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Speaker 8: and people were amazed, like, oh, my goodness, crisis returned

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Speaker 8: to the figure of Daddy Grace.

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Speaker 1: I've actually seen footage of this, at least a version

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Speaker 1: of it. It's from an old newsreel, the kind that

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Speaker 1: they used to play in a theater before a movie.

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Speaker 7: Rolled up to date with an amphibious jeep.

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Speaker 5: The pictures of Negro baptism with Newport News, Virginia are

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Speaker 5: here again. Bishop Grace conducting his annual setimony of salvation.

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Speaker 3: Total immersion is the.

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Speaker 5: Older of the day.

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Speaker 1: He wasn't walking on water, per se. He was seated

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Speaker 1: in this kind of white boat like vehicle, except it

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Speaker 1: had wheels and a convertible roof. On the side of

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Speaker 1: the car, there was a painted message, Grace's Gospel must

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Speaker 1: go over the land and sea, which it did. The

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Speaker 1: car drives down into the water and then starts floating. Honestly,

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Speaker 1: it's still pretty cool to see, But Daddy Grace isn't

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Speaker 1: pretending to walk on water. He's seated baptizing people. It

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Speaker 1: kind of seems like he just didn't want to get wet.

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Speaker 1: But I can imagine how it might have looked a

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Speaker 1: car that drives into the water and then Daddy Grace

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Speaker 1: is out there baptizing the congregation. It's powerful imagery. Xavier

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Speaker 1: can see that too. As the story gets told and retold,

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Speaker 1: as it's passed down, how many of the details change.

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Speaker 1: We've all played the game of telephone, right.

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Speaker 8: My grandmother heard this from her parents, who were illiterate,

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Speaker 8: who had friends who were illiterate, and you know, they

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Speaker 8: just saw this happening. What didn't mean for him to

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Speaker 8: be in a bigious vehicle, probably did feel like he

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Speaker 8: was walking on water, right. I'm interested in how he's

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Speaker 8: perceived by people because I think that's a huge.

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Speaker 1: Part of the mystery perception. That's an interesting concept. Here's

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Speaker 1: an example. In the early days of the United House

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Speaker 1: of Prayer, Daddy Grace was doing a lot of healing.

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Speaker 1: It was a big part of his message and a

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Speaker 1: main draw. He practiced the act of laying hands on

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Speaker 1: his parishioners, offering blessings, prayers, and the transmission of spiritual energy. People,

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Speaker 1: mostly African Americans, flocked from near and far to marvel

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Speaker 1: at his services. He was selling something that money couldn't buy. Sometimes,

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Speaker 1: after he touched someone, that person might joelt having caught

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Speaker 1: the spirit. But there was a rumor going around that

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Speaker 1: actually Daddy Grace wore a battery powered electric belt under

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Speaker 1: his shirt to physically shock people. Daddy Grace had an

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Speaker 1: answer to this during a sermon in Wilmington, Delaware. He

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Speaker 1: put his hand on his belly and he said, brethren,

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Speaker 1: that's no battery. You know what that is.

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Speaker 2: That's chicken.

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Speaker 1: He then added, addressing the doubters even more pointedly, if

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Speaker 1: you believe, then I'm right. Then to you, I'm right.

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Speaker 1: If you believe that I'm wrong, then to you, I'm wrong.

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Speaker 1: I am what I am. It is hard to prove

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Speaker 1: whether or not Daddy Grace himself healed anyone. But in

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Speaker 1: a time where hope and faith were means of survival,

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Speaker 1: he gave his parishioners something to believe in. And if

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Speaker 1: he offered hope, if their faith was there, does it

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Speaker 1: actually matter how they were healed?

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Speaker 8: So for me, the service is always had me hooked.

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Speaker 1: That's Xavier again.

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Speaker 8: They always had me wanting to go back to the

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Speaker 8: next one or trying to somehow be around it. Every Sunday,

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Speaker 8: especially when the bishop would come into town for the

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Speaker 8: church's convocation season. You know, everyone shows up and you know,

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Speaker 8: to be at this large church where it's standing room only,

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Speaker 8: and it's an experience and I'd never seen anything like it.

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Speaker 8: There's nothing that compares to it. A lot of people

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Speaker 8: criticize the church for better or worse, but their faith

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Speaker 8: is real, like you can feel it.

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Speaker 1: Daddy Grace started the tradition of convocation in the United

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Speaker 1: House of Prayer nearly one hundred years ago. It's still

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Speaker 1: a big event traveling the country, going strong. Last year,

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Speaker 1: it lasted for twelve weeks and went to twelve different cities.

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Speaker 2: People book their hotel.

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Speaker 1: Rooms months out and everything calledmates in Charlotte. Members come

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Speaker 1: from all around the country to attend the Grand Finale,

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Speaker 1: which has a huge parade, banned competitions, a closing sermon

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Speaker 1: from the bishop, and a massive baptism. It's like a

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Speaker 1: giant family reunion. Convocation is in many ways reminiscent of

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Speaker 1: the types of religious celebrations that take place in Kabalvid,

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Speaker 1: Saint Dave celebrations, Christmas, New Year's and even funerals end

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Speaker 1: with giant processions through the street. There are decorated floats, horses,

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Speaker 1: a king, queen and a royal court, and of course

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Speaker 1: music heavy on the drums and horns, leading everyone to

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Speaker 1: the church for dancing, food, and naturally more music. This

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Speaker 1: influence is evident in the United House of Prayers convocations.

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Speaker 1: In nineteen forty seven, The Charlotte Observer featured a lengthy

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Speaker 1: article on that year's parade, which was believed to be

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Speaker 1: one of the city's largest at that time. It describes

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Speaker 1: boys selling peanuts and sodas to thousands of spectators lining

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Speaker 1: the streets of Charlotte. It was vibrant, colorful, with Grace

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Speaker 1: Flower girls dressed in white, gray, soul hunters in orange

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Speaker 1: and green, and the Grace Jubilee Choir in blue ropes.

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Speaker 1: Most people walk the route, but the lucky ones rode

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Speaker 1: in or on one of the trucks, cars or horses

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Speaker 1: decorated with red, white and blue streamers. One boy even

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Speaker 1: danced a few steps of the Jitterbug on top of

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Speaker 1: a horse, which the crowd apparently loved, and naturally, Daddy

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Speaker 1: Grace made his own entrance. He arrived towards the back

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Speaker 1: of the parade in a red, white and blue amphibious jeep.

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Speaker 1: He was seated on a throne of sheets and pillows,

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Speaker 1: attendants by a side. I may have been a little

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Speaker 1: nervous about going to the church, but I was excited

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Speaker 1: to experience convocation for myself. But if I'm going to

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Speaker 1: be honest, the first thing I did when I got

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Speaker 1: to Charlotte was go to the House of Prayer kitchen.

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Speaker 1: I was curious to see if the food was going

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Speaker 1: to taste like it did when I was a kid

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Speaker 1: back in New Bedford. I don't know what to expect

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Speaker 1: now with the convocation but I'm excited and I'm looking

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Speaker 1: forward to it. And now I'm about to get into

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Speaker 1: this food. I cannot wait. I got fried whiting with steam, cabbage,

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Speaker 1: mac and cheese, and some corn bread. I put some

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Speaker 1: hot sauce on it already. Oh my god, this is

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Speaker 1: really like bringing me back to being a kid. It's

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Speaker 1: so good. I love how food speaks to the spirit.

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Speaker 1: Similar to music. Food is literal sustenance. It's this way

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Speaker 1: to build and support one's community, to grow strong bodies

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Speaker 1: and minds with souls to match. This, of course, was

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Speaker 1: the wisdom the Black Panthers used for their free breakfast program.

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Speaker 1: They knew that food rebuilds what's broken, it tends to

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Speaker 1: what ales. Sweet Daddy Grace understood this as well, the

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Speaker 1: power of food, especially as a Cape Verdean where starvation

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Speaker 1: was a reality for so many. His church kitchen doors

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00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:45,080
Speaker 1: were open to anyone who was hungry, even if they couldn't.

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Speaker 2: Afford to eat.

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Speaker 1: It was also a great business model to earn income

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Speaker 1: for the church and to employ members of the congregation.

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Speaker 1: Tasting this food once again in Charlotte brought me back

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Speaker 1: to the feeling of community my neighborhood growing up the

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Speaker 1: comfort of home.

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Speaker 2: Plus it's so damn delicious. That helps too.

435
00:30:08,440 --> 00:30:10,720
Speaker 1: They must have like a special recipe that they use

436
00:30:10,840 --> 00:30:17,200
Speaker 1: for the breading on this. It's so good. All right now,

437
00:30:17,200 --> 00:30:20,800
Speaker 1: I gotta try the corn bramm.

438
00:30:24,040 --> 00:30:24,240
Speaker 3: Wow.

439
00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:28,480
Speaker 1: You guys can't see me, but I'm doing the food dance,

440
00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:41,200
Speaker 1: sweet Daddy Grace. I was baptized in the ocean, probably

441
00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:45,040
Speaker 1: even in the same waters where Daddy Grace baptized his

442
00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:48,960
Speaker 1: new Bedford followers. For me, as a Cape Verdean, the

443
00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:52,680
Speaker 1: ocean is a place that I go to care for myself. Really,

444
00:30:52,840 --> 00:30:56,280
Speaker 1: just water in general, whether it's the ocean or even

445
00:30:56,320 --> 00:31:01,760
Speaker 1: taking a shower, it's symbolic of washing away whatever, whatever

446
00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:05,520
Speaker 1: you're feeling, whatever you want to release. I imagine that

447
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:09,120
Speaker 1: Daddy Grace felt similarly, and I imagine for him a

448
00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:13,440
Speaker 1: baptism was a very holy act, a form of communion

449
00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:18,360
Speaker 1: with the spirit. The press loved to cover Daddy Grace's baptisms,

450
00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:22,360
Speaker 1: where thousands and thousands of people might come out to

451
00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:23,600
Speaker 1: watch him in his element.

452
00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:25,680
Speaker 2: Here's doctor Dollam again.

453
00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:30,280
Speaker 6: Daddy Grace did like to do big public baptismal events.

454
00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:33,440
Speaker 6: He would do them in rivers or lakes. He would

455
00:31:33,640 --> 00:31:36,560
Speaker 6: build pools baptismal pools at his churches.

456
00:31:37,720 --> 00:31:40,160
Speaker 1: Daddy Grace was on a mission to save as many

457
00:31:40,280 --> 00:31:44,800
Speaker 1: souls as needed saving, but in cities like New York, Baltimore,

458
00:31:44,920 --> 00:31:48,480
Speaker 1: and Detroit, it was difficult to access bodies of water

459
00:31:49,040 --> 00:31:53,320
Speaker 1: large enough to accommodate the crowds. Daddy Grace had to

460
00:31:53,360 --> 00:31:56,840
Speaker 1: get creative. He focused on what water he and his

461
00:31:56,960 --> 00:32:00,720
Speaker 1: people did have access to from the fire highth drends.

462
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:05,880
Speaker 6: Fire hose baptisms were much more controversial because they're so

463
00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:11,200
Speaker 6: reminiscent of anti black violence committed by law enforcement in

464
00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:14,000
Speaker 6: the Civil Rights era, but even before the Civil Rights era.

465
00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:17,160
Speaker 6: So there's this kind of why would you choose that

466
00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:20,520
Speaker 6: mechanism to baptize people? And I don't know the answer

467
00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:24,440
Speaker 6: to that, but again, it got impressed, It got him attention.

468
00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:28,960
Speaker 6: It's certainly a spectacular kind of event.

469
00:32:30,160 --> 00:32:32,680
Speaker 1: There's not a lot of footage of Daddy Grace preaching,

470
00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:35,640
Speaker 1: but I've watched some of the clips of the baptisms,

471
00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:39,760
Speaker 1: and doctor Dollam is right, they're really an event. There'd

472
00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:43,480
Speaker 1: often be thousands of spectators there watching hundreds of people,

473
00:32:43,960 --> 00:32:47,800
Speaker 1: all dressed in white, prepared to be baptized. By Daddy Grace,

474
00:33:04,880 --> 00:33:08,560
Speaker 1: but as doctor Dollam also mentioned, not all the attention

475
00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:13,120
Speaker 1: around these baptisms was good. In nineteen twenty six, during

476
00:33:13,160 --> 00:33:16,080
Speaker 1: a baptism at a lake near Charlotte, one of his

477
00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:19,600
Speaker 1: aides began to struggle in the water. Daddy Grace tried

478
00:33:19,640 --> 00:33:23,000
Speaker 1: to save the man, but the man drowned. According to

479
00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:26,480
Speaker 1: the newspapers, Daddy Grace, seeing that there were so many

480
00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:29,520
Speaker 1: people waiting to be baptized, went back in the water

481
00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:33,200
Speaker 1: to finish his work, seemingly unworried.

482
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:36,920
Speaker 6: Did he know someone had drowned one hundred feet over there?

483
00:33:37,600 --> 00:33:37,800
Speaker 7: Maybe?

484
00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:38,200
Speaker 1: Maybe not.

485
00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:41,480
Speaker 6: There was also this interesting component that it seems like

486
00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:44,440
Speaker 6: he continued baptizing even though there had been a tragedy

487
00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:47,880
Speaker 6: that took place, which I cannot make sense of. I

488
00:33:47,960 --> 00:33:51,040
Speaker 6: almost wonder if the story is not quite true in

489
00:33:51,160 --> 00:33:53,200
Speaker 6: the way it has been reported, because who would do that?

490
00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:58,400
Speaker 1: Like doctor Dollam, I'm also a little confused by this

491
00:33:58,600 --> 00:34:04,240
Speaker 1: story what really happened. Daddy Grace's own response to the tragedy,

492
00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:07,520
Speaker 1: at least what was quoted in the newspapers, doesn't really

493
00:34:07,600 --> 00:34:10,719
Speaker 1: clear anything up. He tells the press that he thought

494
00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:13,880
Speaker 1: quote it was good for the man, it was a

495
00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:17,400
Speaker 1: beautiful way to die, don't you think so? He was

496
00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:20,760
Speaker 1: working for the glory of heaven. One thing does seem true.

497
00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:24,480
Speaker 1: Daddy Grace was really good at taking a positive spin

498
00:34:24,600 --> 00:34:28,120
Speaker 1: on things. At his core, he really understood the power

499
00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:32,000
Speaker 1: of marketing. From the way he dressed to how he traveled,

500
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:35,640
Speaker 1: to what he said and what he said or did,

501
00:34:36,200 --> 00:34:38,480
Speaker 1: and especially what people thought he.

502
00:34:38,640 --> 00:34:39,440
Speaker 2: Said or did.

503
00:34:40,360 --> 00:34:44,640
Speaker 1: It didn't always correspond with what people expected a preacher

504
00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:49,359
Speaker 1: to be doing or wearing or saying. Add to that mix,

505
00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:53,000
Speaker 1: a black man who seemed unafraid of anything in his path,

506
00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:57,480
Speaker 1: who didn't mind a little pageantry, and whose message and

507
00:34:57,680 --> 00:35:02,600
Speaker 1: methods were attracting followers at a really high rate, well

508
00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:03,960
Speaker 1: you're going to.

509
00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:05,080
Speaker 2: Have some controversy.

510
00:35:06,600 --> 00:35:09,600
Speaker 1: Daddy Grace was driven by his belief in God and

511
00:35:09,719 --> 00:35:13,319
Speaker 1: the Holy Spirit, and the people who heard him they

512
00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:18,600
Speaker 1: felt this. His empire of faith grew quickly. But you

513
00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:23,320
Speaker 1: have to remember he was preaching to integrated crowds, openly

514
00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:28,520
Speaker 1: ignoring segregation rules. He was arrested several times for violating

515
00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:32,880
Speaker 1: segregation laws. And this was in the Jim Crow South,

516
00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:36,839
Speaker 1: a truly dangerous time and place for a black man

517
00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:41,800
Speaker 1: in America, especially a black man with power, influence, and

518
00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:46,120
Speaker 1: growing wealth. Just a few years prior, in nineteen nineteen,

519
00:35:46,719 --> 00:35:51,680
Speaker 1: white mobs had brutally attacked and murdered hundreds and hundreds

520
00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:55,759
Speaker 1: of black people across the country in what became known

521
00:35:56,200 --> 00:35:59,640
Speaker 1: as the Red Summer, And in nineteen twenty one, the

522
00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:04,400
Speaker 1: tall Al Race Massacre destroyed the prosperous black business district

523
00:36:04,800 --> 00:36:09,000
Speaker 1: and residential neighborhood of Greenwood and killed as many as

524
00:36:09,160 --> 00:36:14,120
Speaker 1: three hundred people. Daddy Grace, no doubt was aware of

525
00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:17,480
Speaker 1: the risks he faced. He was certainly aware of the

526
00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:21,319
Speaker 1: ascendant dominance of the klu Klux Klan. By the early

527
00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:25,120
Speaker 1: nineteen twenties, there were millions of enrolled members of the

528
00:36:25,280 --> 00:36:30,040
Speaker 1: newly revived KKK. Men in white hoods would show up

529
00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:33,600
Speaker 1: at his services, and there are numerous accounts of the

530
00:36:33,680 --> 00:36:37,120
Speaker 1: clan's attempts to scare him off and chase him out

531
00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:42,000
Speaker 1: of town. But Bishop Grace couldn't be scared off. And

532
00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:47,360
Speaker 1: I wonder if his unwillingness to shrink from bigotry earned

533
00:36:47,440 --> 00:36:51,440
Speaker 1: him greater respect and reverence in the eyes of his followers.

534
00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:57,800
Speaker 1: I went to Charlotte because I wanted to experience Daddy

535
00:36:57,840 --> 00:37:02,480
Speaker 1: Grace's Church for myself during the most vibrant time convocation.

536
00:37:03,239 --> 00:37:06,040
Speaker 1: I also thought, as a non member, it might be

537
00:37:06,160 --> 00:37:09,080
Speaker 1: easier for me to blend in in such a big crowd.

538
00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:12,920
Speaker 1: Charlotte is home to one of the largest congregations in

539
00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:17,520
Speaker 1: the country, and of the nine churches which are called houses,

540
00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:22,920
Speaker 1: none is greater than the Mother House. It's an impressive building.

541
00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:28,320
Speaker 1: The main sanctuary fits a couple thousand people, and it

542
00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:34,360
Speaker 1: has a splendid baptismal pool. The entrance is huge, with

543
00:37:34,520 --> 00:37:38,280
Speaker 1: white doors and two statues of lions flanking the stairs.

544
00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:44,120
Speaker 1: Tall golden steeples reached to the sky. It's a serious place,

545
00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:48,240
Speaker 1: a magnificent place, but a serious place.

546
00:37:49,440 --> 00:37:50,320
Speaker 2: Here's a confession.

547
00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:53,800
Speaker 1: I've been familiar with Daddy Grace for most of my life,

548
00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:59,280
Speaker 1: the legends, his legacy, the food. But I've never attended

549
00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:05,200
Speaker 1: a single service, never even stepped inside the sanctuary. My

550
00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:10,080
Speaker 1: family always told me it was forbidden to enter. Here's

551
00:38:10,080 --> 00:38:13,680
Speaker 1: another thing. I almost didn't make it to Charlotte. My

552
00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:17,400
Speaker 1: trip happened to coincide with Hurricane Ian, and I was

553
00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:22,200
Speaker 1: certain it'd be canceled. But now here I was in

554
00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:24,920
Speaker 1: the parking lot looking up at the doors of the motherhouse.

555
00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:28,080
Speaker 1: Hearing the last of the rain splatter against the roof

556
00:38:28,160 --> 00:38:32,200
Speaker 1: of my car, I was glad I'd arrived, but I

557
00:38:32,400 --> 00:38:36,520
Speaker 1: also felt like I was doing something taboo, something my

558
00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:41,239
Speaker 1: family would not approve of. Despite the bright red thread

559
00:38:41,280 --> 00:38:44,320
Speaker 1: of doubt running through me, I knew I had to

560
00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:45,480
Speaker 1: find out for myself.

561
00:38:46,239 --> 00:38:48,120
Speaker 2: I had to get closer to Daddy Grace.

562
00:38:48,920 --> 00:38:52,799
Speaker 1: So I reached for the door handle with one hard yank,

563
00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:59,400
Speaker 1: tugged it open, and I stepped inside. It's probably pretty

564
00:38:59,440 --> 00:39:03,680
Speaker 1: obvious I'm not from here, so it was interesting to

565
00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:07,880
Speaker 1: have people ask me, you know, like, hey, who are

566
00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:12,160
Speaker 1: you and what are you doing here? And I explained

567
00:39:12,239 --> 00:39:15,040
Speaker 1: that I was visiting. I'm from New Jersey, but I

568
00:39:15,080 --> 00:39:17,840
Speaker 1: grew up in Massachusetts and New Bedford and that, you know,

569
00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:21,759
Speaker 1: Daddy Grace is one of my ancestors. And the woman

570
00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:25,080
Speaker 1: I was talking to, she was just like, we, you know,

571
00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:27,880
Speaker 1: have to have a special seat for you at the convocation.

572
00:39:28,080 --> 00:39:29,920
Speaker 1: We're going to have you sit right up in front.

573
00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:34,920
Speaker 1: And I'm like, oh my god, you know, like, wow, okay,

574
00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:38,840
Speaker 1: that's a lot, but okay, it's just I was just like,

575
00:39:39,239 --> 00:39:43,200
Speaker 1: what did I just get myself into? And then a

576
00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:45,760
Speaker 1: few of the other folks came out and they started

577
00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:50,960
Speaker 1: kind of whispering, Oh my God, welcome, and they were like,

578
00:39:51,160 --> 00:39:53,600
Speaker 1: you even look like Daddy Grace, Like we can tell

579
00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:58,800
Speaker 1: you're his family. My first time ever in a house

580
00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:03,080
Speaker 1: of prayer, I was treated as family. I was welcomed

581
00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:07,480
Speaker 1: in as a grace. That stirred something inside of me,

582
00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:12,799
Speaker 1: something I couldn't stop thinking about even after the service ended.

583
00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:18,120
Speaker 1: Like as many mysteries, this one is mine or perhaps

584
00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:24,240
Speaker 1: it is ours to share. So it is now almost

585
00:40:24,280 --> 00:40:32,680
Speaker 1: four o'clock. I feel completely overwhelmed emotionally. The church service

586
00:40:33,239 --> 00:40:43,240
Speaker 1: was actually really soul filling and you know, hearing words

587
00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:51,520
Speaker 1: I needed to hear, feeling music that really moves me. Yeah,

588
00:40:52,640 --> 00:40:57,200
Speaker 1: I danced, I cried, I got my hands as saying

589
00:40:57,360 --> 00:41:03,840
Speaker 1: long and I did feel the spirit move in that place,

590
00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:10,000
Speaker 1: which was pretty incredible. I felt the love, I felt

591
00:41:11,280 --> 00:41:15,040
Speaker 1: the goodness. I've spent a lot of time with Daddy Grace,

592
00:41:15,600 --> 00:41:18,400
Speaker 1: especially if you consider that he died twenty years before

593
00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:22,080
Speaker 1: I was born. The man has been a presence in

594
00:41:22,160 --> 00:41:25,759
Speaker 1: my life, from overhearing those family whispers as a kid

595
00:41:26,239 --> 00:41:29,400
Speaker 1: to now outside of his church in Charlotte on that

596
00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:33,480
Speaker 1: blustery fall day. The last of the hurricane passed overhead

597
00:41:34,200 --> 00:41:38,239
Speaker 1: in the end, more of a rainstorm than a catastrophic landfall.

598
00:41:39,239 --> 00:41:42,439
Speaker 1: I sat by myself in my car, trying to make

599
00:41:42,600 --> 00:41:47,000
Speaker 1: sense of what I felt, what I'd experienced. I came

600
00:41:47,080 --> 00:41:51,200
Speaker 1: to convocation, not knowing what to expect, anxious about what

601
00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:55,920
Speaker 1: I might experience in the church, but being here, I think.

602
00:41:55,840 --> 00:41:56,320
Speaker 2: I get it.

603
00:41:57,719 --> 00:42:02,200
Speaker 1: I feel Daddy Grace's presence, his light, and his love

604
00:42:03,200 --> 00:42:07,160
Speaker 1: in the church, in the city, in the hurricane itself.

605
00:42:08,480 --> 00:42:11,040
Speaker 1: One of my favorite quotes from Daddy Grace is when

606
00:42:11,080 --> 00:42:12,560
Speaker 1: he says I.

607
00:42:12,719 --> 00:42:17,120
Speaker 2: Came from the land beyond the sea. I understand that quote.

608
00:42:17,920 --> 00:42:19,680
Speaker 2: I could have said that quote myself.

609
00:42:20,680 --> 00:42:24,200
Speaker 1: Now, having finally set foot inside and seeing his church

610
00:42:24,280 --> 00:42:29,320
Speaker 1: for myself, experiencing the music and once again tasting the food,

611
00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:34,440
Speaker 1: I felt much closer to Daddy Grace, even more connected,

612
00:42:35,520 --> 00:42:40,000
Speaker 1: if not by blood, then most definitely by spirit. But

613
00:42:40,320 --> 00:42:45,680
Speaker 1: I couldn't help to still feel conflicted, still not understanding

614
00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:50,000
Speaker 1: the disdain my family had for this man. I believe

615
00:42:50,200 --> 00:42:53,120
Speaker 1: Daddy Grace was driven to serve and spread God's word.

616
00:42:54,000 --> 00:42:57,719
Speaker 1: That was his mission, and I felt that in Charlotte,

617
00:42:58,640 --> 00:43:03,799
Speaker 1: But not everyone feels the same way. That's next time.

618
00:43:06,320 --> 00:43:09,799
Speaker 1: Sweet Daddy Grace is a production of iHeart Podcasts and Force,

619
00:43:09,840 --> 00:43:14,240
Speaker 1: a Media group. This show is hosted by Me Marcy Depina.

620
00:43:15,040 --> 00:43:19,319
Speaker 1: It's written and produced by Marissa Brown and Me. Our

621
00:43:19,400 --> 00:43:25,040
Speaker 1: story editors are Darryl Stewart, Duncan Riedel, and Zarren Burnett. Editing,

622
00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:30,600
Speaker 1: sound design and theme music by Jonathan Washington. Original music

623
00:43:31,040 --> 00:43:36,680
Speaker 1: by Enrique Silva of Acasia Mayor. Show cover art by

624
00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:43,000
Speaker 1: Viviana Salgado of Studio Creative Group. Fact checking by Austin Thompson.

625
00:43:44,000 --> 00:43:49,720
Speaker 1: Our executive producers are Marcy Depina and Jason English. Special

626
00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:55,080
Speaker 1: thanks to Will Pearson, Nikki Ettore, Ali Perry, Tamika Campbell,

627
00:43:55,400 --> 00:43:59,280
Speaker 1: and Lulu Phillip of iHeartMedia and all of my family

628
00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:03,320
Speaker 1: members who talked to me for this show, my ancestors,

629
00:44:03,840 --> 00:44:06,520
Speaker 1: the United House of Prayer for All People, and the

630
00:44:06,760 --> 00:44:10,480
Speaker 1: countless number of people who shared their memories of Sweet

631
00:44:10,520 --> 00:44:14,400
Speaker 1: Daddy Grace with me. Thanks also to doctor Marie Dollam

632
00:44:14,640 --> 00:44:18,400
Speaker 1: and doctor Danielle brun Sigler, whose academic work on Sweet

633
00:44:18,440 --> 00:44:23,480
Speaker 1: Daddy Grace has been incredibly helpful. And finally, I want

634
00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:26,839
Speaker 1: to thank Bishop Grace himself for choosing me to tell

635
00:44:26,920 --> 00:44:31,800
Speaker 1: his story. For more information on Bishop Charles M. Grace,

636
00:44:32,360 --> 00:44:35,759
Speaker 1: check out the website Sweet Daddy Grace and follow me

637
00:44:36,200 --> 00:44:39,560
Speaker 1: at Marcy Depina on all social platforms