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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Markets Podcast. I'm Paul Sweeney, along

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Speaker 1: with my co host of Bonnie Quinn. Every business day

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Speaker 1: we bring you interviews from CEOs, market pros, and Bloomberg experts,

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Speaker 1: along with essential market moving news. Kind the Bloomberg Markets

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Speaker 1: Podcast on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts,

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Speaker 1: and on Bloomberg dot com. Here's this, Just a tremendous

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Speaker 1: story out on the Bloomberg terminal. Black and white on

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Speaker 1: Wall Street, The unwritten code on race. Here. I'm just

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Speaker 1: gonna start a couple of things here. Here are thirteen

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Speaker 1: unwritten rules about being black on Wall Street, according to

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Speaker 1: people who've lived in I'll just give you a couple.

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Speaker 1: Never forget. This is number one. Never forget, despite all

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Speaker 1: those promises about diversity, only about one percent of senior

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Speaker 1: management is black. Number two. Be careful about pointing that

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Speaker 1: out to mostly white, mostly male trading desk. At number three,

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Speaker 1: get used to hearing about the supposed lack of qualified

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Speaker 1: black applicants. So just a powerful, powerful start to a

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Speaker 1: powerful story. Michelle Davis Bloomberg Finance Reported joins us. So Michelle,

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Speaker 1: give us some of the key takeaway, some of the

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Speaker 1: boy the way you started this article is very powerful

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Speaker 1: with these thirteen unwritten rules. What kind of your key

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Speaker 1: takeaways here? Thanks? So, you know, Wall Street, much like

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Speaker 1: the rest of corporate America and the nation, is basing

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Speaker 1: this huge reckoning over race right now, um, in the

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Speaker 1: wake of you know, the killing of George Floyd and

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Speaker 1: and for years decades, while Sterns been promising to confront

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Speaker 1: some of these failures, um, and right now, lots of

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Speaker 1: the banks are you know, has been hosting town halls

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Speaker 1: about racism, asking workers to you know, weigh in and

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Speaker 1: share their experiences. But after talking to dozens of boff

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Speaker 1: workers across Wall Street, UM, what I you know heard

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Speaker 1: from people is that while many are are hurtened by

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Speaker 1: the fact that there are these open conversations happening right now,

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Speaker 1: it's clear that Wall Street really has failed it's people

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Speaker 1: of color, and there's a lot of skepticism that that

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Speaker 1: any of the conversations are are you going to result

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Speaker 1: in real change people. People are skeptical that, you know,

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Speaker 1: the just bro white bro culture is gonna change because

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Speaker 1: it's it's hard to appear. And let's point out that

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Speaker 1: it's difficult to have open conversations at work a lot

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Speaker 1: of the time, just in general. So this would be

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Speaker 1: a very very difficult conversation to have openly. Michelle, any

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Speaker 1: idea what the delay is why it's taking so long

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Speaker 1: for Wall Street to up its ranks of black people

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Speaker 1: in executive chairs, in C suites and even just among

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Speaker 1: rank and file. It's not as if there really isn't

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Speaker 1: enough of a pipeline. There are plenty of historically black colleges.

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Speaker 1: There are plenty of candidates out there. What's Wall Streets excuse?

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Speaker 1: So workers that I talked to described having to abide

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Speaker 1: by unwritten rules, like you know, measuring their passion and

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Speaker 1: their directness. Um. They described double standards on pay or

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Speaker 1: you know, having to code switch, which if you don't know,

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Speaker 1: is the practice of you know, interacting and differ ways

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Speaker 1: depending on a social context. And um, also having to

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Speaker 1: live with double standards. So if you you know, are

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Speaker 1: a black female trader or I mean even a black

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Speaker 1: tree trader is something that is very rare in the industry.

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Speaker 1: But if you have to act a different way than

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Speaker 1: your white male colleagues just to you know, exist or

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Speaker 1: have a role, and that is something that is going

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Speaker 1: to hold you back from actually rising up the ranks.

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Speaker 1: So it was a lot of this, you know, having

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Speaker 1: to abide by these unwritten rules. And some of the

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Speaker 1: people I talked to, you know, mentioned that there there

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Speaker 1: are some parallels between you know, maybe uh the plight

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Speaker 1: of black workers and also the experiences that other you know,

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Speaker 1: non white UM individuals experience on Wall st. But really

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Speaker 1: this is in this moment, especially like this is about

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Speaker 1: it's especially hard to be a black worker on Wall Street.

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Speaker 1: So it's intering. Michelle, having spent twenty years on Wall Street,

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Speaker 1: I know the importance of having a mentor kind of

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Speaker 1: guide you through your career and also sponsor you for

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Speaker 1: you know, assignment, sponsor you for promotion, and maybe ultimately

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Speaker 1: the managing director and or partner title talk to us

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Speaker 1: about the mentor situation for UH minorities on Wall Street.

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Speaker 1: So you're right, a lot of the people I talked

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Speaker 1: to you said that they attributed a lot of their

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Speaker 1: success to having these sponsors within their organizations. That you know,

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Speaker 1: even if they would have typically you know, wanted to

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Speaker 1: sponsor someone that looks like them, they these people described

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Speaker 1: them having taken a chance UM and said that they

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Speaker 1: really you know, sponsorship and mentorship is something that really

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Speaker 1: is critical to um, you know, black representation on Wall

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Speaker 1: Street and uh, based on the conversations I I've been

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Speaker 1: hearing about that are happening up at the banks, UM,

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Speaker 1: you know, it seems like there is some change happening.

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Speaker 1: I know Goldman's Back has now required more biased training

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Speaker 1: by its employees. They're thinking about formalizing a sort of

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Speaker 1: sponsorship program. But yeah, I mean it is a very

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Speaker 1: it's something that's very critical, UM, in order to uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, make the work plays better. Just to point

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Speaker 1: out some of the numbers that we haven't brought up yet,

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Speaker 1: there have been diversity unierships on Wall Street for decades now,

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Speaker 1: but um, the industry has actually been getting whiter in

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Speaker 1: recent years. At JP Morgan Banks, Ammigrant and City Group,

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Speaker 1: the percentage of black workers overall has been falling, not rising. Uh.

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Speaker 1: Just to point out one bank at JP Morgan, the

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Speaker 1: number has dropped from from in a little over a decade. Michelle,

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Speaker 1: it's really a fantastic story of but everybody to read it.

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Speaker 1: It's Michelle Davis, finance reporter for Boomberg. Black and White

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Speaker 1: on Wall Street, the unwritten code on race. It's absolutely

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Speaker 1: mandatory reading. Today, well, a number of massive companies, from

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Speaker 1: Starbucks to Union Leaver, Code Cola and PEPs See Verise

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Speaker 1: and Levi's and many many more, have decided that they

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Speaker 1: are executing an exodus from Facebook. They don't like the

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Speaker 1: talk that's on Facebook, the partisanship that's on Facebook, the

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Speaker 1: highly targeted ads on Facebook, and so they have pulled

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Speaker 1: the plug at least for on advertising. Let's bring in

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Speaker 1: someone who knows a lot about this now. Mark Douglas

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Speaker 1: is CEO of Steelhouse based in Los Angeles, California, and

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Speaker 1: steel House is a partner with Facebook, also a leader

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Speaker 1: in highly targeted ads on you know platforms from connected

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Speaker 1: TV to the social media platforms. Mark, welcome and thanks

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Speaker 1: for joining. Why now? These companies have been threatening to

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Speaker 1: do this for a long time. Facebook has engaged in

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Speaker 1: incremental self betterment. But now the companies have decided enough

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Speaker 1: is enough. Yeah. The one thing to keep in mind

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Speaker 1: and it answers the question is Facebook has two types

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Speaker 1: of averagises, brand advertisers and direct response averageiser. Direct response

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Speaker 1: or basically e commerce company needs Internet repailers. Companies like that.

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Speaker 1: That's too. Facebook depends upon um. Those companies also dependent

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Speaker 1: on Facebook. So those companies are not boycotting yet. The

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Speaker 1: brand advertisers are concerned about what they call brand safety. Basically,

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Speaker 1: they spend a lot of money a company like Pepsy,

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Speaker 1: some of the examples you've you've given, they spend a

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Speaker 1: lot of money to build those brands, and they are

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Speaker 1: always very concerned with brand safety. And so that's what's

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Speaker 1: driving the boycott. Is better to boycott or be out

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Speaker 1: of Facebook than the risk damaging your brands, and so

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Speaker 1: that's what's driving it. Yeah, so Mark, you know, Facebook

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Speaker 1: has more than eight million advertising clients here, as you mentioned,

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Speaker 1: that direct a lot of of their small advertisers direct

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Speaker 1: response advertisers. So if there's and you know to the

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Speaker 1: extent that they're not following suit with some of the

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Speaker 1: high profile names we've seen, where is the risk to

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Speaker 1: to Facebook? Really here is they try to deal with

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Speaker 1: an issue that seems to be resonating not only with advertisers,

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Speaker 1: put with a lot of their users. Yeah, so the

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Speaker 1: the near term risk, the immediate risk is plastic financial

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Speaker 1: risk is actually not that significant for Facebook because those

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Speaker 1: brand advertisers just don't really account for a lot of

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Speaker 1: Facebook's revenue. Seventeen billion dollars last quarter. But there's a

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Speaker 1: there's kind of a bigger risk looming for Facebook, which

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Speaker 1: is data. So Facebook relies on Facebook log in um

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Speaker 1: for a lot of data and so and as people

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Speaker 1: have used Facebook itself left um you don't get as

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Speaker 1: much data from Instagram, which Facebook are also owned. So

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Speaker 1: with the defining usage of Facebook itself, more um less

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Speaker 1: data available from Instagram. If people start boycotting Facebook log in,

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Speaker 1: that would actually be a huge threat. Is the Facebook

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Speaker 1: logging Is that when I'm logging into a different app,

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Speaker 1: I just say, hey, use my Facebook information to log

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Speaker 1: in for me, exactly. That seeds a lot of data

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Speaker 1: in the Facebook and Facebook uses that data to make

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Speaker 1: those smaller advertisers to give them performance the revenue that

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Speaker 1: they're looking for. So if you thread that that's a

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Speaker 1: much much bigger risk of Facebook, then you know, Peppsy

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Speaker 1: boycotting Facebook. So how much of this, the fact that

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Speaker 1: it is happening in has to do with the pandemic

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Speaker 1: as well? Curious because obviously this is something that the

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Speaker 1: company's you know, really believe in. And you know, once

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Speaker 1: once you know, dropped advertising, the dominos kind of fell

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Speaker 1: and more and more and more doing it right now,

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Speaker 1: but has something to do with the fact that it's

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Speaker 1: it's sort of handy to have to pare back on

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Speaker 1: spending this year. Well yeah, I mean the the that's

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Speaker 1: a that's a really good point. The if if you

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Speaker 1: boycott Facebook, you might have already been cutting back your

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Speaker 1: budgets anyway. So now you can basically put those cut

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Speaker 1: cut backs in the context of taking a social stance,

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Speaker 1: of doing something that maybe a lot of your customers

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Speaker 1: may agree with. So it's super convenient as in and um,

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Speaker 1: how sincere it is? Um? I think some of these

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Speaker 1: large companies, you know, they're driven by the bottom line. Obviously,

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Speaker 1: they're driven by brand tafety concerned. So I think, yeah,

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Speaker 1: this year has a lot what has a lot to

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Speaker 1: do with it. It's also an easy choice to them.

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Speaker 1: Most of those bigger customers rely on television, not social Um,

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Speaker 1: so they're not really losing that much by boycotting Facebook,

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Speaker 1: and it's perfect year to do it. So Mark, you

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Speaker 1: do some some work with Facebook. I'm sure you know

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Speaker 1: some a lot of folks at Facebook. What why do

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Speaker 1: you think Zuckerberg is taking this stance here? Hey, I'm

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Speaker 1: just a platform im media. I'm not a media company,

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Speaker 1: I don't have any editorial responsibility. He seems to be

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Speaker 1: on at least the least the less popular side of

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Speaker 1: this question, if not the wrong side. What do you

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Speaker 1: think he's really thinking here? Um, well, it's a difficult question.

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Speaker 1: I get a bit political. So essentially, any form of

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Speaker 1: extremism is is probably not a good thing. Right, So,

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Speaker 1: whether you're extremely progressive or extremely conservative, I think Mark

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Speaker 1: is Stuckerberg is trying to avoid either extreme and the

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Speaker 1: world is asking people to take side there. There's just

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Speaker 1: no doubt about it. And and so I mean, and

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Speaker 1: I think logically he's doing the right thing by saying

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Speaker 1: it's not my position to judge what you know, content

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Speaker 1: is good, what content is bad. But we're living in

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Speaker 1: a time right now where people are asking for judgments

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Speaker 1: to be made, especially when you distribute contents over two

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Speaker 1: billion people. And so, um, it's it's kind of like, um,

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Speaker 1: a football game. You know, you might be the second

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Speaker 1: person to throw a punch, but you're the one that

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Speaker 1: Russ saw. So so you know he so that that's

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Speaker 1: the position that he's in, And um, I think it's

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Speaker 1: a it's a really difficult position. It's happy to make

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Speaker 1: any It's hard for him to make anyone happy right now. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it really is. Uh, and that's seeing an impact on

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Speaker 1: stock and stock was it a fifty two week high

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Speaker 1: just uh, you know, a week or so ago, so

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Speaker 1: back we've seen in the last couple of days. You

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Speaker 1: have to take that in context. Mark Douglas, CEO of

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Speaker 1: Steelhouse based in Los Angeles talking about Facebook here in

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Speaker 1: a tough position they're in here is again over as

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Speaker 1: as Mark was saying, over two billion users globally. Clearly

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Speaker 1: they have an outsize impact on the global dialogue as

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Speaker 1: relates to all issues, including political issues as well. We'll

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Speaker 1: follow up on that story right now. Let's take a

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Speaker 1: look at the market out look again, a strong market

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Speaker 1: here as we opened a holiday shortened week. To get

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Speaker 1: a sense of kind of where we are here in

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Speaker 1: the market and how we should think about the second

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Speaker 1: half of returned to Philow, Orlando, chief equity market strategist

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Speaker 1: for Federated Hermes. Phil, thanks so much for joining us here.

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Speaker 1: We have a strong day today. Uh, you know, a

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Speaker 1: tremendous rebound in the market after that initial COVID selloff

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Speaker 1: in March. What do you think about the second half here. Well,

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Speaker 1: I think the easy money has been made in the

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Speaker 1: sense that the stock market had this powerful rally from

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Speaker 1: March twenty three into about the first week in June.

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Speaker 1: Things are going to be a little choppier and not

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Speaker 1: quite as easy going forward. You've got this tuggle war

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Speaker 1: right now going on between uh, pretty good economic data,

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Speaker 1: but you've had this spike in infections in some of

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Speaker 1: the key southeastern and southwestern states. Um, we'll have a

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Speaker 1: much better feel for how that tag war is going

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Speaker 1: to play out over the next six weeks or so.

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Speaker 1: But we we we took some chips off the table

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Speaker 1: last week because we were a little bit concerned about

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Speaker 1: how well the market may do here in light of

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Speaker 1: some of these issues. Given the fact that we've had

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Speaker 1: such a powerful rebound rally already, why on earth would

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Speaker 1: anyone be scared At this point, the market seems to

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Speaker 1: go up no matter what happens, including you know, cases

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Speaker 1: spiking in a dozen states again, and this is not

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Speaker 1: going away anytime soon. Well, the situation in the Northeast

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Speaker 1: and the Midwest is pretty good in terms of the

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Speaker 1: peaking of infections and mortalities back in the middle of April,

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Speaker 1: and the fact that we've been able to execute a

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Speaker 1: grind lower over the last couple of months, in part

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Speaker 1: because I think people have done the right thing social distancing,

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Speaker 1: wearing masks, washing your hands, that kind of thing. Um,

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Speaker 1: that's not what's going on right now. In a couple

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Speaker 1: of the key states Florida, Texas, Arizona, California, those numbers

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Speaker 1: have spiked over the course of the last three or

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Speaker 1: four weeks. And we don't have a vaccine yet. We

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Speaker 1: may have one, uh for emergency use, perhaps as early

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Speaker 1: as this fall, but we don't have one right now. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And and certainly that's that's caught our attention. And uh,

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Speaker 1: you run the risk of of do we shut these

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Speaker 1: uh some of these key cities or some of these

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Speaker 1: key states down again? Does that does that potentially extend

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Speaker 1: this recession from the first half that we think is

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Speaker 1: going to end at the end of June. But but

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Speaker 1: does that does that lengthen the duration of this recession

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Speaker 1: at some point in the second half. And given that uncertainty,

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Speaker 1: and given the fact that the stock markets up forty

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Speaker 1: seven percent in in you know, twelve weeks, we thought

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Speaker 1: it was prudent to maybe take some chips off the table,

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Speaker 1: just manage risk a little bit and see how events

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Speaker 1: play out over the next month or so. So, Phil,

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Speaker 1: how important is another round of fiscal stimulus? I know

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Speaker 1: there's a trillion dollar number being thrown around Washington, but

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Speaker 1: there doesn't seem to be any urgency to get another

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Speaker 1: round of fiscal stimulus out there. How critical is that

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Speaker 1: for the second half of this year from an economic perspective,

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Speaker 1: I would disagree with that assessment a little bit. I

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Speaker 1: think there's a tremendous sense of urgency, but it's not

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Speaker 1: going to happen before we see Friday or Thursday's jobs report.

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Speaker 1: And that was always the plan. So so Speaker Pelosi,

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Speaker 1: the Democrats in the House past the Heroes Act in

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Speaker 1: May roughly a three trillion dollar program um the I

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Speaker 1: think the Republican Senate would like to pass a program

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Speaker 1: that's about half that size, let's call it a trillion

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Speaker 1: and a half dollars. But that's not going to happen

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Speaker 1: until Congress comes back from vacation after the Independence Day holiday.

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Speaker 1: Uh So, two things. Number One, they're on vacation. Number Two,

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Speaker 1: they want to see how good or how bad is

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Speaker 1: the June jobs report that we're going to see this

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Speaker 1: coming Thursday, and then that will inform exactly how big

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Speaker 1: the bill should be and what's the best way to

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Speaker 1: craft the bill in terms of where should the incentives

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Speaker 1: be and how large should the incentives be in terms

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Speaker 1: of trying to encourage people back to work or protecting

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Speaker 1: those individuals additionally who aren't able to go back to

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Speaker 1: work because their businesses might might still be shuttered or

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Speaker 1: because they're afraid of cutting coronavirus fellows. Just a little

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Speaker 1: tonguentiak earlier. I mean, it really seems to me like

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Speaker 1: this market is going higher and higher, and maybe it's

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Speaker 1: not based on reality. I mean, what if, for example,

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Speaker 1: you know, it takes weeks and weeks to bring down

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Speaker 1: the coronavirus cases in the states that are sort of

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Speaker 1: more southern and more westerly right now, but by then

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Speaker 1: it's already back in New York City. I mean, there

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Speaker 1: is a virus on the loose out there is the

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Speaker 1: market pricing it at all well? And And that's that's

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Speaker 1: a very astute assessment, because the fact that the markets

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Speaker 1: up in the last three months is not based upon

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Speaker 1: how well and how poorly things are going right this

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Speaker 1: second in terms of either combating the disease or in

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Speaker 1: terms of what corporate earnings are going to look like

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Speaker 1: in the second quarter. What the market is doing is

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Speaker 1: a traditional approach as a forward looking discounting mechanism. It's

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Speaker 1: looking out deep into the second half of this year

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Speaker 1: or even into calendar twenty one and saying, okay, um,

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Speaker 1: we've got this thing under control, We've got a vaccine. Uh,

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Speaker 1: we're starting to get back to normal. Let's look at

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Speaker 1: what normalized durings are and then attempt to discount that

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Speaker 1: back and and establish what we think as an appropriate price.

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Speaker 1: So there's something of a disconnect there between some investors

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Speaker 1: who think that the market is ahead of itself because

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Speaker 1: the numbers don't support where it is right now, as

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Speaker 1: opposed to those investors that recognize, I think that what

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Speaker 1: we're looking we're attempting to do is looking out six

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Speaker 1: or twelve months and then pricing it back based upon

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Speaker 1: where we think things are going to be, perhaps six

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Speaker 1: or twelve months from now. So, uh, Phil, just about

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Speaker 1: thirty seconds or so, you said you mentioned that you're

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Speaker 1: taking some some chips off the table. Are there still

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Speaker 1: some areas where you maybe see some value in some

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Speaker 1: opportunity here given the run up, well, international certainly is

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Speaker 1: looking more attractive here. Developed international is as cheap compared

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Speaker 1: to developed US or large cap US as it was

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Speaker 1: in the bottom of the Great Recession in oh seven

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Speaker 1: oh nine. Uh. Small cap still looks interesting to us. Uh,

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Speaker 1: there's some attractiveness and emerging markets UM value is cheaper

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Speaker 1: than growth, so there are pockets of opportunities here. But

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Speaker 1: right now we're in a bit. I think we're in

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Speaker 1: a little bit of a June swoon, and we need

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Speaker 1: to see how this thing plays out. Phil, thanks always

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Speaker 1: great to speak with you. The S and P five

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Speaker 1: hundred up nine tenths o resent right now, and over

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Speaker 1: the last week it's a point six percent, so I'm

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Speaker 1: still waiting to see that tune soon. The Dow Jones

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Speaker 1: industrial leverage of one point six right now, mostly on Boing.

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Speaker 1: It may be able to restart testing today, which of

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Speaker 1: course many many companies have been waiting on, not just

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Speaker 1: the market and Boing itself. And we have the nastac

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Speaker 1: for once. It is actually the lagguage today up four

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Speaker 1: tenths of one percent. But thanks to Phil Orlando Federated

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Speaker 1: Herme's investors for speaking with us there Florida positivity rates

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Speaker 1: have been rising, and it's not the only date where

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Speaker 1: that's happening. It's happening in several states in the South

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Speaker 1: and the Midwest, and the outlook is pretty pretty dire

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Speaker 1: for certain states, including Arizona. Next guest says that it's

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Speaker 1: not like a wildfire where you can't just put it out,

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Speaker 1: and it's a really dire situation. According to our next guest,

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Speaker 1: who is Dr David Engeltaler, co director and Associate Professor

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Speaker 1: of the pathogen and Microbiome Division at Tejon North, he

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Speaker 1: was also Arizona is a state epidemiologist for a time.

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Speaker 1: Dr angel Faler, thank you for joining, explained to us

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Speaker 1: why you're so pessimistic about the outlook for Arizona and

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Speaker 1: other states. Good, good morning, goney. Yeah, So I think

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Speaker 1: you know what's happening with this pandemic. It's it's doing

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Speaker 1: what pandemics do. They cause a lot of disease in depth,

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Speaker 1: and it's going to have ebbs and flows and waves,

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Speaker 1: and we can certainly affect that with public policy and

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Speaker 1: public participation in recommendations. Uh. And right now it looks

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Speaker 1: like we're maybe not following recommendations enough and and this

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Speaker 1: viruses is happened a heyday. So dr you know, one

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Speaker 1: of the things that I've kind of toyed about and

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Speaker 1: asked a lot of experts about, is, you know, here

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Speaker 1: in the New York metro area, we had Governor Andrew Cuomo,

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Speaker 1: followed by Governor Murphy of New Jersey and some others,

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Speaker 1: but really led by New York Governor Cuomo really take

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Speaker 1: an aggressive stance on shutting down quarantining and then you know,

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Speaker 1: on the reopening, doing it very gradually and focusing on

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Speaker 1: social distancing and masking and all that good stuff. Does

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Speaker 1: there need to be a federal response as opposed to

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Speaker 1: state by state because we've seen now the states that

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Speaker 1: did not take it seriously are the ones that are

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Speaker 1: paying the price. Yeah. I think what we're seeing is that,

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Speaker 1: you know, obviously this virus doesn't care if you're in

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Speaker 1: a red or a blue state, and I'm pretty sure

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Speaker 1: it doesn't really care who your governor is. It. We

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Speaker 1: are definitely seeing different epidemiological patterns in different regions. So

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Speaker 1: for instance, in the Northeast and the New Jersey. In

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Speaker 1: New York, um, you know, when they were having their

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Speaker 1: giant upswinging their their their case. Batality rates were really

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Speaker 1: off the chart, you know, more than seven percent, and

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Speaker 1: in in a number of those states and out west

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Speaker 1: it's been very different. Uh and and typically around one

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Speaker 1: to two and a half percent in Arizona, California, Texas,

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Speaker 1: and Utah. But the numbers right now are skyrocketing across

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Speaker 1: the southern states, uh and And it could be um

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Speaker 1: a large part do the fact that there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of twenty somethings that are out there thinking that opening

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Speaker 1: up the state means that somehow they were invisible and

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Speaker 1: a lot of interactions and in public places without people

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Speaker 1: social distancing or wearing masks. Uh And. I think that's

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Speaker 1: adding a lot to it. But I also think the

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Speaker 1: fact that we have different strains of the virus moving

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Speaker 1: around in different epichemiology and in different regions of the country.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Rankles are if I could just be blund how

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Speaker 1: long before it's back in the northeast again. Yeah, this

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Speaker 1: is not going away. Um. We will have continue to

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Speaker 1: have waves probably everywhere. Be hard to say with what's

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Speaker 1: going to happen in in in specific regions. It's as

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Speaker 1: as we can all tell, we can't model this scientifically,

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Speaker 1: and we certainly can't guess where where these things are going. Uh.

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Speaker 1: Every every gap and every model has been wrong. Uh

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Speaker 1: to date. We just know that the virus uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: I've I've likened it to a wildfire. It's also like water.

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Speaker 1: It finds the cracks and it gets in and then

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Speaker 1: and then it then it's spreads out. Uh. And so

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Speaker 1: you know, I think maybe a better question, um might

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Speaker 1: actually be are we doing everything we can to protect

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Speaker 1: those that are highest risk, our our elder generation uh

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Speaker 1: and sadly in most cases were not all right. So

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Speaker 1: dr to the extent that uh, you know, we are

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Speaker 1: bound to see continuing waves of this across the country

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Speaker 1: at the varying degrees. That kind of brings us to

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Speaker 1: the point of where do you think we are in

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Speaker 1: terms of viable airpiece to treat the virus and more importantly,

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Speaker 1: and is a ultimately a vaccine. These definitely are the

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Speaker 1: questions on on everybody's mind. We need those tools. And

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Speaker 1: the good news is is that, um, you know the

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Speaker 1: focus of the science scientific world, especially the biob medical world,

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Speaker 1: is on this disease, and almost only this disease, which

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Speaker 1: means that we're going to have a number of new

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Speaker 1: advancements we've already had that we're going to be testing

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00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:33,679
Speaker 1: and looking at a lot of different drugs and and

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00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:36,240
Speaker 1: repurposing a lot of drugs, and and that's been covered

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00:24:36,280 --> 00:24:38,399
Speaker 1: heavily in the media. And some are gonna work in

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00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:40,960
Speaker 1: some flat out won't. But we have to keep moving

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00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:44,679
Speaker 1: forward and keep drying. Uh. And then vaccines are are

436
00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:48,760
Speaker 1: um certainly under development and and actually some vaccines are

437
00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:52,240
Speaker 1: already in clinical trials, which is great news. Nothing's really

438
00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:55,840
Speaker 1: ever moved this fast. Uh And and so we may

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00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:59,360
Speaker 1: actually see a good a couple of good vaccine candidates

440
00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:01,480
Speaker 1: come out the the side of clinical trials by the

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00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:03,280
Speaker 1: end of this year. It still takes a long time

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00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:04,800
Speaker 1: to do those trials because you have to see whether

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00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:07,560
Speaker 1: or not the vaccine is gonna work. But we may

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00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:11,040
Speaker 1: see some that it won't be distributed this year most likely,

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00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:13,600
Speaker 1: and but hopefully maybe early next year we'll have some

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00:25:13,720 --> 00:25:15,760
Speaker 1: that can get out to the ones that need it most,

447
00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:19,040
Speaker 1: those that are highest risk and those that are carrying

448
00:25:19,040 --> 00:25:23,160
Speaker 1: to them. Doctor. I mean, we obviously get pandemic type

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00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:26,560
Speaker 1: situations once every twenty years or so. Does the next

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00:25:26,560 --> 00:25:29,160
Speaker 1: one though come sooner? Are we in sort of an

451
00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:32,400
Speaker 1: era now where we're going to experience pandemic after pandemic.

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00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:35,240
Speaker 1: And you know, I'm saying that with full awareness that

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00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:39,000
Speaker 1: we're nowhere near seeing an end to this particular coronavirus.

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00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:43,440
Speaker 1: Looking forward to the next pandemic, there's there's no doubt

455
00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:46,920
Speaker 1: we will continue to see pandemics. We are we are

456
00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:52,000
Speaker 1: more connected globally than ever before. Viruses and other pathogens

457
00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:56,440
Speaker 1: can move around um the world at the speed of flights. Uh.

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00:25:56,880 --> 00:26:01,640
Speaker 1: We we can be assured a new viruses will continue

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00:26:01,680 --> 00:26:04,240
Speaker 1: to come out of nature as this one has, as

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00:26:04,320 --> 00:26:07,359
Speaker 1: many others have in the past summer. Some will be

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00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:11,480
Speaker 1: dead ends uh and and or cause limited disease like

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00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:15,120
Speaker 1: the original stars virus uh and some will be global

463
00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:19,240
Speaker 1: pandemics like say pandemic flu was and like this one

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00:26:19,359 --> 00:26:23,440
Speaker 1: is so dr I guess that one of the next

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00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:26,879
Speaker 1: questions is, I mean, how do you think that the

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00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:28,840
Speaker 1: states that are dealing with a surgeon now, is this

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00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:31,320
Speaker 1: something that they can do what perhaps New York and

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00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:33,320
Speaker 1: New Jersey and some other states did and and kind

469
00:26:33,320 --> 00:26:35,520
Speaker 1: of bend the curve to bring the turn back from

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00:26:35,560 --> 00:26:41,040
Speaker 1: several months ago. Yeah, I think that we can continue

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00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:45,520
Speaker 1: to um, learn and monitor what's going on with the

472
00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:51,119
Speaker 1: pandemic in local regions and a just local responses. Uh

473
00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:54,719
Speaker 1: so uh, you know, we you know, after we you know,

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00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:57,399
Speaker 1: did the masses shut down, and obviously that had a

475
00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:00,240
Speaker 1: lot of detrimental effects, but it also really slow down

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00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:02,720
Speaker 1: the virus. Why do we learn from that and how

477
00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:05,280
Speaker 1: can we get closer to that slowing of the virus

478
00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:09,399
Speaker 1: without maybe killing the economy? So number one first and

479
00:27:09,480 --> 00:27:11,760
Speaker 1: formed most for me is that we still have to

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00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:14,520
Speaker 1: do everything we can do to protect those that are

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00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:17,080
Speaker 1: most at risk. And and you know, at the very

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00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:19,640
Speaker 1: beginning of this we knew who is going to die,

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00:27:19,720 --> 00:27:22,959
Speaker 1: and sadly they have and they will continue to do

484
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:25,680
Speaker 1: so until we put absolute protection around those. And that's

485
00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:30,000
Speaker 1: our nursing homes, that's our elderly population with multiple chronic condition, right,

486
00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:33,080
Speaker 1: these are the ones who are dying. It's not the twentiesomething. UM.

487
00:27:33,119 --> 00:27:35,160
Speaker 1: So that's where we got right, doctor, Thank you very much.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna have to leave it there. Thank you so much.

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Speaker 1: Dr David engel Feller, Director of Effectious Disease at t GEN.

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00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:44,119
Speaker 1: And you also a former state epimologist epimediologists for the

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Speaker 1: State of Arizona. Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg Markets podcast.

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Speaker 1: You can subscribe and listen to interviews at Apple Podcasts

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00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:55,920
Speaker 1: or whatever podcast platform you prefer. I'm Bonnie Quinn. I'm

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00:27:55,960 --> 00:27:59,159
Speaker 1: on Twitter at Bonnie Quinn. Sweeney I'm on Twitter at

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00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:02,080
Speaker 1: pt Sweeney. Before the podcast, you can always catch us

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Speaker 1: worldwide at Bloomberg Radio m HM