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Speaker 1: Hi, everyone, It's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress. Well,

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Speaker 1: hey everybody, or if we're talking about today's guests, should

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Speaker 1: I say hey, y'all. I am so excited that one

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Speaker 1: of my favorite women in this industry is here for

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Speaker 1: an interview I've been dying to do because, like all

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Speaker 1: of you, I am absolutely obsessed with The Hunting Wives.

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Speaker 1: Malin Ackerman is here with us today. Friends. You know

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Speaker 1: her from twenty seven Dresses to Billions. She is one

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Speaker 1: of the most incredible chameleons in our industry. Always full

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Speaker 1: of charm, always full of conviction, and she makes every

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Speaker 1: project she's a part of better. And now she is

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Speaker 1: the talk of the town thanks to The Hunting Lives

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Speaker 1: on Netflix. We've just found out we're getting a season two,

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Speaker 1: thank god, because we need more of this twist bill

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Speaker 1: that sexy series. Fans and critics alike have been blown

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Speaker 1: away by Molin's old, layered, courageous performance, and she is

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Speaker 1: officially in the canon of Queer Icons now. Not only

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Speaker 1: is she such an advocate for women to be represented

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Speaker 1: and seen and to be written in whole and exciting ways,

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Speaker 1: she's also an outspoken advocate for children's mental health, she

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Speaker 1: is an incredible mother and she is someone I am

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Speaker 1: so proud to call my friend. Let's dive in and

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Speaker 1: talk all things with Molin. I have a way I

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Speaker 1: really like to start with people, but with you, I

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Speaker 1: want to start in a very unique manner because you

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Speaker 1: are one of my favorite humans and also one of

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Speaker 1: the two Swedes in my life for so long. Well women,

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Speaker 1: I also have a lovely, handsome Swedish man who makes

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Speaker 1: my one of my best friends very happy. But one

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Speaker 1: of the things I love about my other amazing, hot,

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Speaker 1: iconic female Swedish friend, Tovlo, is that she's like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's not actually how I say my name, Like her

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Speaker 1: name is Toulou. Yeah, so I'm like, everyone is always

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Speaker 1: like Malan Ackerman, how do you actually pronounce your name?

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Speaker 2: So if we were to say it in Swedish, it's

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Speaker 2: Marlin Keman hot, which sounds almost Jamaican with old there's

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Speaker 2: almost like a there's a cadence to Swedish Morlyn Marlin.

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Speaker 1: Oh no, it is more of an a than I'm

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Speaker 1: saying Marlin Marlin.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's the eye that liked. So that's why when

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Speaker 2: it's translated, we just my mom. When we moved to Canada.

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Speaker 2: She would just say it, but try to make it

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Speaker 2: more English, and she say malina, but everyone here wants

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Speaker 2: say malin or mailing because that's how it's spelt. Fair enough,

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Speaker 2: But if we were to add an L, then that

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Speaker 2: would probably help out, like a shopping mall and going in.

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Speaker 2: It interesting how it's kind of pronounced okay, cool. I

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Speaker 2: like it.

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Speaker 1: I like it a lot. It's also not lost on

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Speaker 1: me because you know, my dad is Canadian. Yep, Like

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Speaker 1: the Canadians can hear each other from a mile away. Oh,

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Speaker 1: so you've got the Swedish and you've got that certain

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Speaker 1: sound like it comes out our us friends listening people

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Speaker 1: are like, well, what do you mean? They always think

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Speaker 1: it's just about but it's like Americans say Toronto, yeah,

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Speaker 1: like I'm going to Toronto, and Canadians say Toronto Toronto

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Speaker 1: like Montreal, not Montreal. And so I hear that, and

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Speaker 1: I'm just aware of all that, all the accents in

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Speaker 1: your life.

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Speaker 2: You've got like a one degree of separation. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: there's a few coming in there.

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Speaker 1: I love it. I also for our friends at home

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Speaker 1: feel so amped. I was telling the whole team since

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Speaker 1: we're here in person today that we've known each other

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Speaker 1: for almost twenty years.

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Speaker 2: It's been a lot. I have a picture of you

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Speaker 2: kissing my pregnant belly. Oh my god, at the dinner

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Speaker 2: in Washington, DC. Yes, do you remember that. Yes, we

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Speaker 2: have known each other alone. Now my boys twelve years old.

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Speaker 1: It's so crazy. And it's like, there's nothing better than

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Speaker 1: seeing your friends win.

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Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely, so happy for seeing your friends period, or

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Speaker 2: see your friends win.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean book, but it's just like, yeah, I

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Speaker 1: just love it. I love it. I love it. I

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Speaker 1: really felt geeked last weekend, you know, emy weekend, all

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Speaker 1: the things happening, watching people like run across a room

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Speaker 1: to be like you're so amazing, You're so hot. I

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Speaker 1: was like shit, and it was just great. I really

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Speaker 1: love I just love this moment.

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Speaker 2: I love it. It's been so much fun and it's

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Speaker 2: so fun. It was such a fun weekend. And just

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Speaker 2: to look back and just see your smiling face every

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Speaker 2: now and then, I mean, it was just it just

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Speaker 2: felt so beautiful because, like you said, I'm the same

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Speaker 2: I think when my friends are winning, I get so excited. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: you know, Michelle Monahan is a really good friend of

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Speaker 2: mine and the white notice and like there's just so

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Speaker 2: much to celebrate, and it's so lovely to have girlfriends

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Speaker 2: like that, because girls can really just when we prop

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Speaker 2: each other up, when we support each other, or we

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Speaker 2: can rule the world. Tell you so, it just is

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Speaker 2: fun and beautiful to look around and feel like I've

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Speaker 2: got a great group of girls around me, and that

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Speaker 2: is really special.

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Speaker 1: It's amazing. Yeah, and I think especially to be in

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Speaker 1: the moment we're in in our lives where we've gone

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Speaker 1: through the early career stuff. Brittany and I were talking

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Speaker 1: about this in a way, like you meet some of

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Speaker 1: your favorite people and then everyone gets scattered all over

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Speaker 1: the world working like you know, marbles, and you go

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Speaker 1: through growth, you probably evolve out of some friendships that

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Speaker 1: aren't the best for you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and then you like come back to your.

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Speaker 1: Core humans and you go, oh my god, I feel

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Speaker 1: like I have I nailed it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, totally. That's the best part. I got people to

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Speaker 2: share this with this is awesome.

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Speaker 1: The thing I normally ask people and I'm excited to

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Speaker 1: hear your answer, especially because you have a twelve year old,

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Speaker 1: is you know everybody tunes in, they listen, they've watched

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Speaker 1: the show, They've watched all your films, they know you

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Speaker 1: and your work. I'm always really curious if, as an adult,

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Speaker 1: at this point in your career, this point in your

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Speaker 1: personal journey, if we could like be in a sci

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Speaker 1: fi show and we could walk onto the playground and

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Speaker 1: see our eight year old selves or our nine year

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Speaker 1: old selves. Like if you got to hang out with

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Speaker 1: that little girl, would you would you see yourself in her?

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Speaker 1: Does the does the sort of through line of the

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Speaker 1: woman you've become make sense across the journey or do

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Speaker 1: you think she'd be like, sorry, what is your life? Like?

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Speaker 2: You're doing well? If you showed her the hunting wise,

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Speaker 2: she'd be like, what, well, what we.

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Speaker 1: Could get maybe like arrested for that?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, totally, you can't show me your I think there

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Speaker 2: are pieces to it the track. But I also think

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Speaker 2: if I look at that little eight year old girl,

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Speaker 2: I was so shy and so insecure, but still very

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Speaker 2: goofy and positive. So there was like this combination where

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Speaker 2: I go, yeah, I mean I feel like everyone has

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Speaker 2: two paths that they can take in life for many

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Speaker 2: but two specific like one that kind of goes down

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Speaker 2: downward spiral and one that just conquers everything, and so

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Speaker 2: I can see both of those things in the little

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Speaker 2: eight year old. But I definitely could have seen it

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Speaker 2: go a different way had I listened to all the

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Speaker 2: little gremlins that were in my head. But luckily along

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Speaker 2: the way there were mentors and people that just kept

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Speaker 2: showing me that silver lining.

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Speaker 1: Wow, what are your gremlins?

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Speaker 2: You know, I really don't like to voice them out

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Speaker 2: loud because I don't love to give them the power.

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Speaker 1: I like that.

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Speaker 2: I've worked a lot on quieting them, and I work

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Speaker 2: a lot with my son on that right now, on

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Speaker 2: anything that's bothering him, to bring his truthful voice out,

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Speaker 2: his gut voice versus the gremlins that are telling him things.

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Speaker 2: And usually those gremlins are also other kids being mean

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Speaker 2: or whatever it is, and then you start to believe

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Speaker 2: that those things as truths. So we speak a lot

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Speaker 2: about that and just not giving it power. So I

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Speaker 2: don't ever like to voice them out loud. I know

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Speaker 2: their mind. I mean I will to my therapist. But

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Speaker 2: that's my biggest work in progress, is just being more

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Speaker 2: in my own power and my own shoes and listening

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Speaker 2: to my gut, which was not always easy and is

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Speaker 2: still a work in progress.

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Speaker 1: Oh, it's such a hard journey. Yeah. And I especially

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Speaker 1: think that the era we came up in, Yeah, the

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Speaker 1: way women were treated in absolutely the media, the way

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Speaker 1: I mean it was just so vicious. Yeah, and it

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Speaker 1: was designed to make us crazy and to take I

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Speaker 1: love the way you say it, like, don't give them power.

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Speaker 1: It's like I've I've decided to sort of name mine.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, there's a little self doubt monster, and there's

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Speaker 1: like all these little monsters. And every week in therapy

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Speaker 1: and like all the monsters get to come to the

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Speaker 1: tea party totally and like my higher self is going

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Speaker 1: to entertain them and then put them back in their place.

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Speaker 1: But it's so interesting the way you phrase it, first

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Speaker 1: of all, to really learn to feed your goodness and

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Speaker 1: your power instead of the other side of the seesaw

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Speaker 1: we all have, and that you can see like, oh

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Speaker 1: it could have split here, Oh this could have changed that.

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Speaker 1: You know. For some reason, you saying that about your

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Speaker 1: young self made me think, yeah, I have all my

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Speaker 1: own versions of that. But the way I get to

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Speaker 1: watch my part r live and the person that she is, like,

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Speaker 1: you know, she is very clear about how access to sport.

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Speaker 1: That was the thing that pulled her down the good

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Speaker 1: path yea, when everything around her was dangerous and scary.

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Speaker 1: And I don't know, I think about particularly for all

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Speaker 1: of us, what sport and what the arts do for people,

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Speaker 1: but especially for women. Yeah, like it's huge, it changes

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Speaker 1: everything for us. When did you start to get into

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Speaker 1: that as a kid, because I know, you know, you

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Speaker 1: moved from Sweden to Canada. How that's obviously a crazy

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Speaker 1: culture shock. You know, it's a crazy shift.

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Speaker 2: Do you know? What's interesting is that I would say

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Speaker 2: that Sweden and Canada have a lot of similarities, you know,

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Speaker 2: because kindness. Yeah, there's a little more logic and politically

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Speaker 2: in the past it hasn't been so torn, you know,

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Speaker 2: and so it was a pretty logical place to grow up.

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Speaker 2: Like you put money into taxes and they go to

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Speaker 2: healthcare and you get free healthcare, and like you get

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Speaker 2: free schooling, and like university costs. It cost me four

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Speaker 2: thousand dollars a year to go to university.

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Speaker 1: I mean you get a return on your investment.

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Speaker 2: Exactly, and the same with Sweden, Like it's a free

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Speaker 2: university and everything like it works, and so that wasn't

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Speaker 2: a huge there wasn't really a huge culture shock. Again,

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Speaker 2: I was two years old, so I wouldn't have noticed

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Speaker 2: a difference.

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Speaker 1: Yeah that's true, you're so small.

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Speaker 2: But looking at it and going and my dad moved

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Speaker 2: back to Sweden when I was six, so I spent

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Speaker 2: a lot of time going back and forth and comparing

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Speaker 2: the two, you know, unconsciously just comparing them. But it

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Speaker 2: felt like a like there was a similarity. I think

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Speaker 2: it would have been very different going from America to Sweden. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: there is more of a culture shock there. But I

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Speaker 2: loved growing up in Canada and that was you know,

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Speaker 2: it was hard because my dad went back to Sweden

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Speaker 2: when I was six, and I was such a daddy's girl,

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Speaker 2: but he had to do it because we just didn't

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Speaker 2: have finances. And I got a better job offer in

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Speaker 2: Sweden and my mom wanted to stay in Canada. She

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Speaker 2: preferred it there, so it was an amicable split, thank god.

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Speaker 2: But I would be I would get on a plane

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Speaker 2: at six years old by myself and like do the

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Speaker 2: chaperone thing and go see my dad in the summer

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Speaker 2: and spend the summer's there. So it was again silver

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Speaker 2: linings to everything, where like I got this beautiful sort

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Speaker 2: of duality of culture growing up or spent three to

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Speaker 2: four months in Sweden, March breaks and Christmas and stuff,

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Speaker 2: and then also the influence of Canada and growing up there.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: And I think you had a question, but I don't

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Speaker 2: remember what it was.

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Speaker 1: I don't really either, but I love it. It's like

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Speaker 1: I think sometimes when people ask me about perspective, you know,

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Speaker 1: when you talk about logic, the sort of inherent desire

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Speaker 1: to take care of your neighbors, yeah, and to know

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Speaker 1: that they're valuable. I really think that kind of duality

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Speaker 1: in childhood can give that to you. It's like being

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Speaker 1: shown rather than being.

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Speaker 2: Told yeah always.

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Speaker 1: And I think a lot about it because you know,

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Speaker 1: I grew up here. My dad came from Canada in

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Speaker 1: the seventies to go to art school. My mom moved

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Speaker 1: out here from New York. I grew up here in

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Speaker 1: the middle of LA But it was like very normal, cute,

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Speaker 1: normal little neighborhood.

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Speaker 2: It's so crazy to say about normal little neighborhood, Like a.

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Speaker 1: Normal little neighborhood. Like nobody had a big, fancy house.

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Speaker 1: Nobody was like doing any of what you see on

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Speaker 1: like selling sunset or right right now, and my childhood

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Speaker 1: was summers up in a five thousand person cattle ranch

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Speaker 1: town in central California.

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Speaker 2: Oh wow, And.

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Speaker 1: So like we would catch frogs on Friday nights in

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Speaker 1: the creek.

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Speaker 2: Like that's what there was to do totally.

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Speaker 1: And the back and forth of it. I think really

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Speaker 1: now reflecting back, if I hung out with my eight

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Speaker 1: year old self, I'd realize the reason I love people

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Speaker 1: and I love the world so much is because I

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Speaker 1: get so excited to dip into anyone's place space, culture city, yeah,

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Speaker 1: and figure out what they like to do on a

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Speaker 1: Friday night.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And that's huge, and I think that is I

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Speaker 2: think being a global citizen is really really important. And

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Speaker 2: I think being curious about other people and being open

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Speaker 2: to discussion about, you know, advancing that a little further,

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Speaker 2: not just what they do on a Friday, but like

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Speaker 2: what's your life like and what are your beliefs and

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Speaker 2: why and what do you care about? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Who makes you feel seen?

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Speaker 2: Not just in your own little circle because we all

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Speaker 2: have the same opinions, but when you reach outside and

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Speaker 2: you kind of see the world for what it is,

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Speaker 2: there's so much beauty to be found in it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll be back in just a minute. But here's

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Speaker 1: a word from our sponsors. It's interesting too for us

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Speaker 1: to be sitting here in this moment because we have

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Speaker 1: been activists and advocates for such a long time. We

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Speaker 1: do live in a time where things have shifted away

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Speaker 1: from the logic you speak of, Like you talk have

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Speaker 1: a logic account and I was like, you mean, you're

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Speaker 1: not an alternative fact. It's like an alternative fact is

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Speaker 1: a lie.

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Speaker 2: There is a lie, Like.

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Speaker 1: We can have differences of opinion, but like, for example,

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Speaker 1: I'm like, racism is not a difference of opinion like that.

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Speaker 1: Don't know, We're not going to do that. We're not

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Speaker 1: going to excuse cruelty and call it thought.

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Speaker 2: No, you know, And we do seem to be in

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Speaker 2: this place.

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Speaker 1: I mean, we don't seem we see it where we

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Speaker 1: are going down this really dark path. And this is

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Speaker 1: going to seem like a weird moment to segue to

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Speaker 1: your wonderful show. But stay with me, or I see

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Speaker 1: so many people being scared to be seen. So many

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Speaker 1: people understand that their identity is threatened, now that their

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Speaker 1: ability to have rights is threatened. Now, I you know,

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Speaker 1: I've been putting this movie together and like literally everywhere

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Speaker 1: people are like, oh no, no, no, we can't touch queer

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Speaker 1: content right now. And then along comes the Hunting Wives show,

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Speaker 1: and I I just am like, not only is it

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Speaker 1: an important thing to have out in the zeitgeist, but

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Speaker 1: right now that your show is the biggest show on

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Speaker 1: streaming right now, Like, how do you wrap your head

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Speaker 1: around that, not just as an actor, but also as

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Speaker 1: a global citizen, as someone who knows how much representation matters?

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Speaker 1: Like are you do you just feel like you have

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Speaker 1: whiplash all the time?

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Speaker 2: A little bit, yeah, but like a fun whiplash, a

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Speaker 2: great whiplash, a really happy one. And like you said,

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Speaker 2: the representation is when we're not we're not. The thing

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Speaker 2: is that we're not presenting as anything. It's just it's

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Speaker 2: it's not like coming out and going this is the

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Speaker 2: L word or this is you know what I mean,

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Speaker 2: but it is an exploration of what it is to

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Speaker 2: be human. I'm not going to get this is like,

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Speaker 2: it's not a prestige show. And like bro Becca says herself,

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Speaker 2: it's an anti pristige show. It's it's popcorn, it's fun,

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Speaker 2: it's entertainment, but it's also just real inherent human curiosity

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Speaker 2: and people being fluid, And I'm not going to sit

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Speaker 2: here and say I'm representing the LGBTQ community, but also

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Speaker 2: I'm so glad that it represents many aspects of it

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Speaker 2: in the community. But I think that's also why it's

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Speaker 2: being so widely received, is because no one's putting it

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Speaker 2: in your face, going it's a bunch about a bunch

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Speaker 2: of gay women who are and then some people might

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Speaker 2: just go, I'm not going to watch something that's gay content.

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Speaker 2: But because it's presenting as house weves of Texas who

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Speaker 2: are getting it on with each other and like exploring

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Speaker 2: their sexuality. And I've said it before, like I think

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Speaker 2: most people are quite fluid, and society is just put

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Speaker 2: certain boundaries on what a marriage looks like it looks like,

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Speaker 2: or what a relationship looks like, or what human should

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Speaker 2: look like, and what it meant what your sexuality should

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Speaker 2: and shouldn't look like. So I just feel like this

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Speaker 2: just creates a bit of freedom. And it's with both

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Speaker 2: worlds conservatives and liberal yes, and it's mixing the worlds

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Speaker 2: together and we're loving both of them. And so it's

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Speaker 2: this weird combination, this beautiful magical combination that's just hit

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Speaker 2: home for many people.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's part of the profundity of it. Like,

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Speaker 1: don't get me wrong, we all love a prestige show.

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Speaker 1: I would actually argue that this also is. But I

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Speaker 1: do think there's a there's been a strangeness that maybe

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Speaker 1: we haven't necessarily looked at where Yeah, if we're going

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Speaker 1: to do the L word, which I love, like me too,

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Speaker 1: you're going to do it in LA And so then

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Speaker 1: suddenly it's, oh, that's a gay place. Like I just

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Speaker 1: sent a video yesterday a waitress in Ohio, like you know,

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Speaker 1: went to the table to do the thing, and the

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Speaker 1: older woman having dinner with her daughter said what white

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Speaker 1: wine do you have? And she suggested one and she said, oh, no,

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Speaker 1: that's from California. I don't support that state. There's too

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Speaker 1: many gay people there. I'll take the white wine from

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Speaker 1: New Zealand. And the waitress said, you know, there's okay,

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Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure there's gay people in New Zealand. And

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Speaker 1: the woman just looked at her and she said, would

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Speaker 1: you like another server, because ma'am, I'm a lesbian. And

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Speaker 1: the woman, she said, was so flustered, and she was like,

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Speaker 1: I'll have someone else bring you your wine so you

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Speaker 1: don't have to talk to a gay person, and she did.

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Speaker 1: She gave the table away and her video made me

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Speaker 1: so sad because I was like, who are we becoming?

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Speaker 1: I don't know, but I love what you're doing on

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Speaker 1: the show because you're reminding people like people are people

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Speaker 1: everywhere everywhere, there's gay people everywherehere.

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Speaker 2: Who cares?

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Speaker 1: I know what?

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Speaker 2: Who somebody falls in love with what they do in

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Speaker 2: the bedroom? Who ca I don't. I don't want to

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Speaker 2: know what that woman does in the bedroom. By the way,

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Speaker 2: I don't care, but I don't give a You do

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Speaker 2: whatever you want. If you want to get pegged, then

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Speaker 2: get pegged. Go for our girlfriend like that. I just

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Speaker 2: why are we so? There's so many bigger problems yeah

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Speaker 2: than who somebody loves it literally doesn't matter. It blows

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Speaker 2: my mind. Love is love is love, and God there's love.

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Speaker 2: Thank God for it. It saves the world. And then

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Speaker 2: why are people so mad at it? You know it

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Speaker 2: just it can't. It makes me really upset. Things like that.

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Speaker 1: Well, the thing is, if if you can create the

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Speaker 1: illusion of impropriety for something good or by the way,

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Speaker 1: frankly something irrelevant. Then you can create an identity war.

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Speaker 1: It's like a religious war. Logic can't win it, and

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Speaker 1: then people aren't paying attention to the fact that we

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Speaker 1: don't have health care and that our kids can't read.

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Speaker 2: Or literary of course, so.

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Speaker 1: It's fun to watch how inherently honest a show like

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Speaker 1: yours is, and that that honesty actually makes it quite subversive.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm like, this is I Rebecca Cutter has done

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Speaker 2: an incredible job.

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Speaker 1: Incredible. So when you you mentioned getting pegged, I know

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Speaker 1: from our conversations that you got to that scene and went,

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Speaker 1: oh my god, can you tell the people about the

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Speaker 1: first how the show came your way sure, and how

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Speaker 1: you knew you had to do it, and how interestingly

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Speaker 1: your husband was kind of the show's biggest champion.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he's my biggest champions, by the way. Yes, So

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Speaker 2: the whole series landed in my inbox, all eight episodes. Wow,

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Speaker 2: And that's, as you know, very unusual. Usually get a

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Speaker 2: pilot and you kind of have to make up the

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Speaker 2: rest and hope that this character goes somewhere cool. So

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Speaker 2: I got all eight episodes, I started reading and I

403
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Speaker 2: was in a mood because I just lost a job

404
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Speaker 2: to a very zegeisty show and literally that day and

405
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Speaker 2: I was like, and then this came along and I

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Speaker 2: was like, what is this? Red State n Ari? Anti abortion?

407
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Speaker 2: Like is this? Who is this? Who I'm going to play?

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Speaker 2: Is this it? And that was just like first episode

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Speaker 2: and I didn't know what this was it, what was coming? Yeah,

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Speaker 2: And so I read on and then I handed it

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Speaker 2: to my husband. I was like, can you just read

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Speaker 2: this and like let me know your thoughts because I'm

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Speaker 2: really starting to fall in love with this character and

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Speaker 2: I think there's more there, Like there's an underlying theme

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Speaker 2: in this that is not on the page, and I

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Speaker 2: feel like there's so much to do with this and

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Speaker 2: there's so much to play with. And he started reading

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Speaker 2: it because are you kidding me? Why wouldn't you do this?

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Speaker 2: I mean you were tailor made for this. This role

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Speaker 2: is tailor made for you. And I was like, wait

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Speaker 2: a second, there's that's a loaded liked am I father.

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Speaker 2: I'm not sure if that's.

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Speaker 1: Good or not.

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Speaker 2: But he just meant, you know, there are You'll get

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Speaker 2: to showcase so much of your talent in this is

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Speaker 2: what he was saying. He is, I mean, I've taken

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Speaker 2: on project projects before, and he's like, you're better than this.

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Speaker 2: You should not be doing this. You're is so much

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Speaker 2: better than this, and that's such a beautiful thing to say.

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Speaker 2: But at the same time, going no, im not, there's

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Speaker 2: one of my little grumlins coming out. I'm like, no, no,

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Speaker 2: this is fine. This is perfect for little me. This

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Speaker 2: is I mean, I've got a job, this is amazing.

434
00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:32,200
Speaker 2: So he's always been pushing me to put my goal

435
00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:34,840
Speaker 2: a little bit higher for myself. Yeah, And so this

436
00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:38,000
Speaker 2: came along and then I read it. I was reading

437
00:23:38,000 --> 00:23:40,520
Speaker 2: it and I was loving every moment of it. It's

438
00:23:40,600 --> 00:23:44,080
Speaker 2: such a page turner. And then I got to the

439
00:23:44,119 --> 00:23:47,879
Speaker 2: episode where Callie is with her husband in the bedroom

440
00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:53,800
Speaker 2: and spoiler alert, but she pegs him. And now I've

441
00:23:53,840 --> 00:23:59,000
Speaker 2: had many discussions with friends of mine who are straight men,

442
00:23:59,280 --> 00:24:03,080
Speaker 2: gay men, and you know, women all across the board

443
00:24:03,680 --> 00:24:06,840
Speaker 2: who pegging has come up quite a bit over the

444
00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:09,119
Speaker 2: few of the past few years. People just being honest.

445
00:24:09,160 --> 00:24:11,119
Speaker 2: It's not like it hasn't existed, it's just people starting

446
00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:13,920
Speaker 2: to te People just didn't talk about it, didn't talk

447
00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:16,199
Speaker 2: about it. And so when this came up, I was like,

448
00:24:16,280 --> 00:24:20,639
Speaker 2: oh my god, this is amazing. I've never seen this

449
00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:23,440
Speaker 2: on television before. And I bet you so many people

450
00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:26,280
Speaker 2: will relate to this. We'll want to try it, We'll

451
00:24:26,280 --> 00:24:31,280
Speaker 2: want it, you know, get curious about it. And so

452
00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:33,720
Speaker 2: that was sort of the nail in the coffin for me,

453
00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:36,480
Speaker 2: was that scene where you know, I know I wasn't

454
00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:38,520
Speaker 2: doing the scene, but I just went, this is so brave.

455
00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:41,840
Speaker 2: It's brave, very very brave to just be out there

456
00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:42,119
Speaker 2: with that.

457
00:24:42,320 --> 00:24:45,320
Speaker 1: Yes, by the way, I have I've been waiting for

458
00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:46,800
Speaker 1: this to tell you this story.

459
00:24:47,000 --> 00:24:47,320
Speaker 2: Yeah.

460
00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:51,600
Speaker 1: So back in the day, early days of One Tree Hill,

461
00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:55,400
Speaker 1: my two roommates from college had moved after college Jenny York,

462
00:24:55,440 --> 00:24:57,320
Speaker 1: and I was basically the third roommate, and I'd fly

463
00:24:57,400 --> 00:24:59,760
Speaker 1: up there on the weekends to see Ali and Bro

464
00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:04,560
Speaker 1: and one of our best friends, Paul, was Ali's coworker

465
00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:08,040
Speaker 1: at BNCPR if you remember, like back in the day,

466
00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:11,200
Speaker 1: I don't know, Ragman nim and Cafarelli public Relations.

467
00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:11,480
Speaker 2: Wow.

468
00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:14,359
Speaker 1: And sometimes I would fly to New York for like

469
00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:18,240
Speaker 1: an audition. Yeah, and where was I gonna go. It'd

470
00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:20,080
Speaker 1: be like a Thursday. I'd be flying up in the morning,

471
00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:22,800
Speaker 1: flying back on you know, Eastern seaboard, you know, and

472
00:25:23,920 --> 00:25:26,040
Speaker 1: I would go to her office and I got to

473
00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:29,560
Speaker 1: be really really good friends with Ali's coworker, Paul. And

474
00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:33,960
Speaker 1: at the time, this was probably like two thousand and six,

475
00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:37,800
Speaker 1: they got hired to do pr for a very high

476
00:25:37,880 --> 00:25:40,960
Speaker 1: end sex toy company and nobody was talking about sex toys.

477
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:43,080
Speaker 1: And I remember Paul being like, yeah, gotta come look

478
00:25:43,119 --> 00:25:45,520
Speaker 1: at that the cabinet and he opened it and we

479
00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:47,879
Speaker 1: all were like blushing. We were like what the is

480
00:25:47,960 --> 00:25:48,520
Speaker 1: all of that?

481
00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:50,840
Speaker 2: Like what what?

482
00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:53,440
Speaker 1: And then like you're curious, and then you're also like

483
00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:55,480
Speaker 1: I have to go because I can't be seen in

484
00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:58,520
Speaker 1: public having this conversation, which is so silly, the way

485
00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:00,679
Speaker 1: we've all been shamed about sex, which people have been

486
00:26:00,680 --> 00:26:03,200
Speaker 1: having since the dawn of time. Sure, and I will

487
00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:05,840
Speaker 1: never forget Paul telling me. I was like, what's the

488
00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:08,400
Speaker 1: weirdest thing that this company sells the most of? Because

489
00:26:08,400 --> 00:26:11,879
Speaker 1: they got all the data right, and he said, the

490
00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:13,639
Speaker 1: thing they sell the most of that they are the

491
00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:17,600
Speaker 1: most surprised by is strap ons for women in Red

492
00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:21,679
Speaker 1: States to peg their husbands. And by the way, I go,

493
00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:26,240
Speaker 1: I go, where do they go the most? And he said, ironically, Ohio, Wow,

494
00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:29,880
Speaker 1: Paul happens to be Paul Down's, the creator of Hacks

495
00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:36,240
Speaker 1: Get Out, Yes, Oh Yes, and this observance like this company.

496
00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:40,119
Speaker 1: When him and Lucia first started working together writing together

497
00:26:40,160 --> 00:26:44,560
Speaker 1: before they were married, they did essentially like a funnier

498
00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:47,919
Speaker 1: die video called Dildo Sport, and they came up with.

499
00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:50,439
Speaker 2: The idea because of this that's amazing sex.

500
00:26:50,320 --> 00:26:53,120
Speaker 1: Way company he represented for a time, So everyone should

501
00:26:53,119 --> 00:26:56,040
Speaker 1: watch that. It's on YouTube. It's the funny one. But

502
00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:59,119
Speaker 1: like when you say, nobody talks.

503
00:26:58,840 --> 00:27:03,160
Speaker 2: About it, nobody talks about because, like you just said,

504
00:27:03,200 --> 00:27:06,800
Speaker 2: we've all been shamed. Yeah, sex is normal and kinks

505
00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:09,679
Speaker 2: are normal as long as it's too consenting adults, go

506
00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:13,040
Speaker 2: for it, baby, whatever you like, have a nicety. I

507
00:27:13,080 --> 00:27:17,160
Speaker 2: also I'm very I am very curious about people's things,

508
00:27:17,200 --> 00:27:20,000
Speaker 2: Like I find it fascinating and that's why the conversations

509
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:21,520
Speaker 2: have come up, and I'm like, what do you like?

510
00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:23,399
Speaker 2: What do you guys do? Is there anything fun like

511
00:27:23,680 --> 00:27:26,119
Speaker 2: or do you have a fantasy or like, what's something

512
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:28,320
Speaker 2: that you are nervous to ask your wife to do

513
00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:31,600
Speaker 2: or your husband or like yes, or your boyfriend or girlfriend.

514
00:27:31,760 --> 00:27:36,280
Speaker 1: What's something you've recently learned about your sexuality that surprised you,

515
00:27:36,280 --> 00:27:36,560
Speaker 1: you know.

516
00:27:36,640 --> 00:27:38,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know I thought you were asking me. You're

517
00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:41,159
Speaker 2: just no. I mean, it's such a nice question. You

518
00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:44,040
Speaker 2: can answer it totally. Want to own nothing surprising with

519
00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:45,800
Speaker 2: my sexual I know myself very well.

520
00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:49,480
Speaker 1: I love it. Okay, that is a question also if

521
00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:52,280
Speaker 1: it's not too personal. But to your point, I think

522
00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:56,960
Speaker 1: people at home might not have people to have these conversations.

523
00:27:57,040 --> 00:27:57,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, totally.

524
00:27:58,080 --> 00:28:00,560
Speaker 1: Your husband is your biggest champion. Yeah, he was like,

525
00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:04,520
Speaker 1: do this show go have this conversation about how this

526
00:28:04,640 --> 00:28:08,560
Speaker 1: woman who lives in a very you know, like you said,

527
00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:12,560
Speaker 1: anti abortion place, has had one, which we know is

528
00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:15,159
Speaker 1: so common because you see these guys passing these laws

529
00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:17,280
Speaker 1: about our bodies and then we hear about the mistresses

530
00:28:17,320 --> 00:28:23,639
Speaker 1: his abortions. They've paid for it. I'm also curious, how, like,

531
00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:27,600
Speaker 1: because the show is so sexy, yeah, and it requires

532
00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:32,280
Speaker 1: a lot of sex, how do you navigate that in

533
00:28:32,320 --> 00:28:36,840
Speaker 1: your relationship? And how? I mean, your husband is the

534
00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:39,440
Speaker 1: nicest man, he's also so evolved. So I asked this

535
00:28:39,560 --> 00:28:42,360
Speaker 1: question not specifically for him, more for maybe other husbands

536
00:28:42,400 --> 00:28:47,680
Speaker 1: of queer women, like how does he navigate you in

537
00:28:47,720 --> 00:28:50,719
Speaker 1: your fullness? Like, how does he not get nervous about

538
00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:52,120
Speaker 1: it or jealous about it.

539
00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:55,680
Speaker 2: Honestly, how did you have the conversation? I have a unicorn,

540
00:28:56,040 --> 00:29:00,600
Speaker 2: I feel like, I really do. I think it stems

541
00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:06,680
Speaker 2: from his father, who is a wonderful human as well.

542
00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:10,880
Speaker 2: And he said to Jack, once, Jack is my husband's name,

543
00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:14,440
Speaker 2: he said to him, once, you know I met your mother,

544
00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:19,680
Speaker 2: this wild, free spirit that I knew I could never

545
00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:23,239
Speaker 2: put in a cage, nor did I ever want to.

546
00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:25,560
Speaker 2: So I never ever tried to change her mother, because

547
00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:27,560
Speaker 2: she is who she is, and that's who I fell

548
00:29:27,600 --> 00:29:29,880
Speaker 2: in love with. And I think Jack has taken that

549
00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:33,840
Speaker 2: on and just gone, you are this whatever, X, Y,

550
00:29:33,880 --> 00:29:35,720
Speaker 2: and Z woman that he fell in love with, whatever

551
00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:38,000
Speaker 2: he fell in love with. With me, he would never

552
00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:40,520
Speaker 2: try to change that because that's what he fell in

553
00:29:40,560 --> 00:29:43,000
Speaker 2: love with. I am who he fell in love with,

554
00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:46,600
Speaker 2: and so whatever I come with is what he wants.

555
00:29:47,400 --> 00:29:50,960
Speaker 2: And so he's also in the business, so he understands

556
00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:54,760
Speaker 2: what it really is like to do an intimate scene.

557
00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:58,520
Speaker 2: As you know as well. It's not super sexy, it's

558
00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:04,120
Speaker 2: not supertic. It's very technical, yeah, but it's beautiful to

559
00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:05,640
Speaker 2: watch once it's all said and done.

560
00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:07,720
Speaker 1: It when it's edited together, and you don't hear they're

561
00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:10,280
Speaker 1: going I need you to turn your heads to inches

562
00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:13,720
Speaker 1: because you're in this person's light. But once that's all gone,

563
00:30:13,760 --> 00:30:14,360
Speaker 1: it looks great.

564
00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:17,720
Speaker 2: Its beautiful music to it, you know, So he knows

565
00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:20,800
Speaker 2: all of that stuff as well. And then on top

566
00:30:20,880 --> 00:30:24,520
Speaker 2: of that, I mean, it's like I said, it's it's

567
00:30:24,560 --> 00:30:28,240
Speaker 2: mostly me and other women in this show. And that's

568
00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:30,400
Speaker 2: a lot of guys will say that that's one of

569
00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:33,360
Speaker 2: their fantasies is just either girlfriend or a wife or

570
00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:35,720
Speaker 2: whatever with another woman. And so for him there's a

571
00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:39,560
Speaker 2: little bit of like, whoa, this is exciting, and you know,

572
00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:44,280
Speaker 2: Brittany and Jamie Ray they're just beautiful women. But he's

573
00:30:44,280 --> 00:30:47,440
Speaker 2: on set, he meets everyone. We make it like I

574
00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:49,640
Speaker 2: know that sounds weird, but like a family affair, it's

575
00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:53,680
Speaker 2: just there's the security there and there's no we don't

576
00:30:53,680 --> 00:30:56,960
Speaker 2: have jealousy in our relationship. It's just we've got no

577
00:30:57,080 --> 00:30:59,440
Speaker 2: room for it. We're just not not those people. Yeah,

578
00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:02,280
Speaker 2: there's no to be. You know, we've made this commitment.

579
00:31:02,320 --> 00:31:04,680
Speaker 2: We know what our commitment is to each other and

580
00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:07,120
Speaker 2: what our rules and our boundaries are, and we adhere

581
00:31:07,120 --> 00:31:09,720
Speaker 2: to them. You know I'm old enough. Now I'm forty

582
00:31:09,760 --> 00:31:12,040
Speaker 2: seven years old. I know what I want and I need,

583
00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:14,360
Speaker 2: and we're very vocal about it. When I was twenty

584
00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:17,120
Speaker 2: in my twenties, I could never have had these kinds

585
00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:19,640
Speaker 2: of discussions. I could never have explored the kind of

586
00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:23,280
Speaker 2: marriage that we have. Like I just didn't have the vocabulary.

587
00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:26,240
Speaker 2: I didn't have the tools, I didn't have the confidence.

588
00:31:26,280 --> 00:31:28,720
Speaker 2: I didn't know who I was. Now I know who

589
00:31:28,720 --> 00:31:32,480
Speaker 2: I am, and entering into this relationship with Jack, I

590
00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:36,400
Speaker 2: was very open about who I am, what I want

591
00:31:36,400 --> 00:31:38,760
Speaker 2: in a relationship. If it's going to work that I'm

592
00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:41,400
Speaker 2: still a work in progress that I probably am going

593
00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:44,920
Speaker 2: to change. Hopefully we'll change together. But I said, you know,

594
00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:47,239
Speaker 2: in our vows when we get married, I'm not going

595
00:31:47,320 --> 00:31:49,440
Speaker 2: to say forever because that would be a lie because

596
00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:52,200
Speaker 2: I don't know, no but that's true or not. But

597
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:54,760
Speaker 2: every day I'm going to try my best to be

598
00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:57,920
Speaker 2: the best wife and best partner. But that's all I

599
00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:00,400
Speaker 2: can promise. So you know, we have a lot of

600
00:32:01,480 --> 00:32:04,080
Speaker 2: really great discussions. He's he's a really great person to

601
00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:06,600
Speaker 2: talk to and that's why it works. Communication is key.

602
00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:09,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll be back in just a minute after a

603
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:18,360
Speaker 1: few words from our favorite sponsors. What an amazing thing

604
00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:22,240
Speaker 1: to find that not only your relationship with yourself, but

605
00:32:22,280 --> 00:32:26,000
Speaker 1: a relationship with yourself that I think when you get

606
00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:31,640
Speaker 1: forged in both evolution and fire, frankly, when you know

607
00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:34,400
Speaker 1: yourself in a way that you can then have such

608
00:32:35,040 --> 00:32:38,160
Speaker 1: a healthy relationship with another person. And when you get

609
00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:41,320
Speaker 1: it as essentially a second chance, like when you did

610
00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:45,320
Speaker 1: it younger and with less knowledge, and it wasn't right

611
00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:50,520
Speaker 1: for you, and you figured out how to both own

612
00:32:50,600 --> 00:32:54,280
Speaker 1: that and extricate yourself from that and not let it

613
00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:58,120
Speaker 1: harden you to the possibility of something good in the future.

614
00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:02,040
Speaker 2: Absolutely the two paths where you could go down the

615
00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:04,920
Speaker 2: really dark path or you could go silver lining, whereas

616
00:33:04,920 --> 00:33:08,400
Speaker 2: I'm yeah, yeah, But it's also that I don't know

617
00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:10,320
Speaker 2: if you've noticed this, but as you get older, all

618
00:33:10,360 --> 00:33:12,760
Speaker 2: the sayings that we heard told to us as young

619
00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:15,800
Speaker 2: is that we could never wrap our heads around and

620
00:33:15,880 --> 00:33:19,040
Speaker 2: that one real big truth is you have to love

621
00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:21,760
Speaker 2: yourself first in or to love somebody else. And it's

622
00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:24,040
Speaker 2: as simple as that, and that's the hardest thing to do.

623
00:33:24,880 --> 00:33:29,040
Speaker 2: But when you start to love yourself, then you start

624
00:33:29,080 --> 00:33:31,400
Speaker 2: to be able to have a really great relationship with

625
00:33:31,440 --> 00:33:34,200
Speaker 2: somebody else. And that's been really true, and that's the

626
00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:36,480
Speaker 2: exploration that I'm having with my husband right now.

627
00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:40,800
Speaker 1: It's beautiful and it watching you guys together like in

628
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:44,000
Speaker 1: real in the real world, people are like, wait.

629
00:33:43,880 --> 00:33:46,120
Speaker 2: What not just he's not on the show.

630
00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:51,600
Speaker 1: He's not like secretly on the show, seeing how lovely

631
00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:56,080
Speaker 1: and like generative your relationship is together.

632
00:33:56,280 --> 00:33:57,240
Speaker 2: Oh that's a nice word.

633
00:33:57,320 --> 00:33:59,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel like I can see it in your

634
00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:05,120
Speaker 1: free him on camera, you know, and it's and it's

635
00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:08,080
Speaker 1: so cool, like when you've watched all your friends do

636
00:34:08,160 --> 00:34:10,799
Speaker 1: all their things and you you see them and you're

637
00:34:10,840 --> 00:34:13,680
Speaker 1: just like, oh, you're in a whole nother like you've

638
00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:16,560
Speaker 1: I don't know what you're doing, but it's working, like

639
00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:18,440
Speaker 1: you know, and you go like you leveled it up

640
00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:22,920
Speaker 1: like in your spirit. And I love seeing it for you,

641
00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:25,040
Speaker 1: and frankly, I love seeing you and Brittany have the

642
00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:28,480
Speaker 1: experience together because you know, twenty years ago, we were

643
00:34:28,520 --> 00:34:31,560
Speaker 1: a lot of people's gay awakenings. John Ducker Must Die

644
00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:34,560
Speaker 1: and even that was so through the male gaze, like

645
00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:37,640
Speaker 1: my character teaching her character how to kiss, and then

646
00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:41,560
Speaker 1: you know, the camera turning and realizing a guy was watching.

647
00:34:43,239 --> 00:34:45,920
Speaker 1: I remember doing press and being like, you know, we

648
00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:48,440
Speaker 1: were so lucky we got to do that together, and

649
00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:50,879
Speaker 1: hearing the way we answered the question and being like, oh,

650
00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:53,759
Speaker 1: it wasn't about that. It was weird for us to

651
00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:56,880
Speaker 1: kiss each other. It was like it didn't feel great

652
00:34:56,960 --> 00:35:00,520
Speaker 1: to be on camera for like a guy's entertainment. And right,

653
00:35:01,719 --> 00:35:04,680
Speaker 1: you guys just being together. I'm like, we've really made

654
00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:05,680
Speaker 1: some progress.

655
00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:11,080
Speaker 2: I'm so proud. Same, No, girl. That was the beauty

656
00:35:11,160 --> 00:35:13,680
Speaker 2: about this show too. Is the beauty of this show

657
00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:18,160
Speaker 2: now that we're continuing, is that we everything has been

658
00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:21,319
Speaker 2: through the female gaze. Yes, and that's really cool. I've

659
00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:23,640
Speaker 2: never experienced that before because, like you just said, most

660
00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:25,440
Speaker 2: of it has been through the male gaze. And that's okay,

661
00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:28,600
Speaker 2: do but but this is our turn, and this is

662
00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:34,160
Speaker 2: every woman. Every director was a woman, And the woman

663
00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:39,120
Speaker 2: who directed mine and Brittany's first intimate scene is Melanie Mayron,

664
00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:43,239
Speaker 2: and she is herself lesbian, and so she's like, I

665
00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:45,360
Speaker 2: want this to be beautiful and what we think is

666
00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:48,439
Speaker 2: sexy and what we deem is sexy and also have

667
00:35:49,360 --> 00:35:52,360
Speaker 2: that nuance of the tenderness and the love and the

668
00:35:52,440 --> 00:35:56,239
Speaker 2: excitement behind it, you know, So that was really beautiful

669
00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:59,239
Speaker 2: to just have that discussion. And Rebecca Cutter as well,

670
00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:01,719
Speaker 2: who you know, has been with women and men and

671
00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:05,680
Speaker 2: just is is very open to making it just beautiful

672
00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:08,560
Speaker 2: in the way that we feel is beautiful.

673
00:36:08,239 --> 00:36:13,400
Speaker 1: Well, and something that has been really interesting, as you know,

674
00:36:14,040 --> 00:36:19,920
Speaker 1: a queer person is watching rather than like you know,

675
00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:22,080
Speaker 1: who's day. You know, you're dating, you're experimenting, you're doing

676
00:36:22,120 --> 00:36:25,360
Speaker 1: whatever you're doing being in this relationship as long as

677
00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:29,160
Speaker 1: I've been in it now with ash watching some of

678
00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:33,760
Speaker 1: my straight friends. Yeah, and even some friends that realize

679
00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:37,520
Speaker 1: maybe they're more curious than they thought observe our intimacy.

680
00:36:37,680 --> 00:36:39,680
Speaker 1: And I don't mean like we don't have, you know,

681
00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:42,399
Speaker 1: someone in the bedroom. But a friend of mine said

682
00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:44,759
Speaker 1: to me the other day, we'd had friends over and like,

683
00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:46,960
Speaker 1: you know, you're buzz you're buzzing around, you're hosting. We

684
00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:49,520
Speaker 1: like we we went around the kitchen island and we

685
00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:51,760
Speaker 1: like we're talking to each other in the corner, and

686
00:36:51,880 --> 00:36:54,080
Speaker 1: we separated and like went and did the thing. My

687
00:36:54,160 --> 00:36:57,120
Speaker 1: friend said, I watched you too, have this moment, have

688
00:36:57,239 --> 00:37:01,920
Speaker 1: this sweetness together, the way you like wrapped your arms

689
00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:04,160
Speaker 1: around each other and kissed each other and then you

690
00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:05,960
Speaker 1: looked at each other you said something. I don't know

691
00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:08,279
Speaker 1: what it was. You went she said, my husband has

692
00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:10,560
Speaker 1: never kissed me like that unless he's trying to me.

693
00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:18,880
Speaker 1: And I was like, the difference in intimacy sure is,

694
00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:23,359
Speaker 1: I'm realizing is revelatory even for people who aren't having

695
00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:27,120
Speaker 1: the intimacy I'm having and watching you guys and the

696
00:37:27,160 --> 00:37:31,719
Speaker 1: way you talk about even how you create it. Do

697
00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:35,719
Speaker 1: you think there's something that's so amazing for audiences not

698
00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:38,600
Speaker 1: only because you know you are playing a very openly

699
00:37:38,640 --> 00:37:43,640
Speaker 1: bisexual woman, but because someone who they might feel they

700
00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:47,480
Speaker 1: identify with, someone like Britney's character, who they until they

701
00:37:47,560 --> 00:37:49,800
Speaker 1: learn a little more they thought was like always straight,

702
00:37:51,040 --> 00:37:56,200
Speaker 1: is exploring her fluidity. Like I'm amazed that that there's

703
00:37:56,200 --> 00:37:58,120
Speaker 1: so many women being like, oh, this isn't just a show,

704
00:37:58,160 --> 00:38:00,719
Speaker 1: as you said at the top, for lesbians, like this

705
00:38:00,760 --> 00:38:04,400
Speaker 1: is a show for everyone, and like am I am?

706
00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:06,560
Speaker 1: I maybe a little by like are there things I

707
00:38:06,600 --> 00:38:07,760
Speaker 1: haven't explored myself?

708
00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:13,000
Speaker 2: Absolutely? And I think you know adultery aside, I guess

709
00:38:13,719 --> 00:38:16,880
Speaker 2: you know it's women behaving badly for like in many

710
00:38:16,960 --> 00:38:17,960
Speaker 2: terrible ways to be.

711
00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:20,080
Speaker 1: Good for anyone who hasn't seen it. Your character on

712
00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:22,920
Speaker 1: the show is in an acknowledged open relationship.

713
00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:26,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, but yes, we don't call it open. That's for liberals,

714
00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:28,600
Speaker 2: as she says, that's for the liberals on the web.

715
00:38:28,960 --> 00:38:32,319
Speaker 2: We have any agreements and how we do our marriage right,

716
00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:35,160
Speaker 2: and this is accepted. But I do go outside those

717
00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:38,000
Speaker 2: boundaries and see the young man that which is which

718
00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:40,880
Speaker 2: is not many no nos in that the fact.

719
00:38:40,640 --> 00:38:43,320
Speaker 1: That you're so liable on this show, I mean crazy

720
00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:47,080
Speaker 1: in life, that that isn't like a five alarm fire.

721
00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:49,080
Speaker 1: I'm like, wow, okay, this is really something.

722
00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:52,040
Speaker 2: I think people hated that part the most, which I get,

723
00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:55,640
Speaker 2: which is it's two tiers, too young and best friends.

724
00:38:55,640 --> 00:38:59,400
Speaker 2: It's just not sun like, it's just and but what every.

725
00:39:00,080 --> 00:39:02,960
Speaker 1: Is that everyone hates And what a wonderful actor he

726
00:39:03,040 --> 00:39:05,239
Speaker 1: is to be clear lovely person, but he's playing an

727
00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:07,920
Speaker 1: unlikable man. Oh no, derm, it's wonderful. I was going

728
00:39:07,960 --> 00:39:10,400
Speaker 1: to say that the gentleman who plays Britney's husband, like

729
00:39:10,680 --> 00:39:14,359
Speaker 1: everybody just hates hates having characters so much that they're like, girl,

730
00:39:14,400 --> 00:39:15,200
Speaker 1: cheat on your husband.

731
00:39:15,280 --> 00:39:17,600
Speaker 2: He sucks. Well to go back to what you were

732
00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:22,080
Speaker 2: just beginning in this was you know, women explore like

733
00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:25,000
Speaker 2: exploring seeing Britney's character. And I think it all comes

734
00:39:25,040 --> 00:39:28,720
Speaker 2: down to being seen, whether you're in a queer relationship

735
00:39:28,760 --> 00:39:31,080
Speaker 2: or a straight relationship or whatever it is. Because I

736
00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:33,480
Speaker 2: what you just said about you and Ash I have

737
00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:36,280
Speaker 2: with Jack, I think we can have those intimate moments

738
00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:38,120
Speaker 2: and that. And I said that to him in the beginning.

739
00:39:38,160 --> 00:39:41,080
Speaker 2: I said that, Listen, I always thought intimacy I did

740
00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:45,000
Speaker 2: as a woman, thought intimacy was was physical and sexual,

741
00:39:45,080 --> 00:39:48,400
Speaker 2: and I'm precursor to secual one hundred percent. I was like, intimacy,

742
00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:50,200
Speaker 2: that's what that is. That was the equation for me.

743
00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:52,600
Speaker 2: And then I started working on myself and then I

744
00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:54,439
Speaker 2: met Jack and I said, listen, I don't think I've

745
00:39:54,480 --> 00:39:59,560
Speaker 2: ever been truly intimate with somebody. I've never shared a lot.

746
00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:02,320
Speaker 2: I've held everyone at an arm's length to protect myself.

747
00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:04,520
Speaker 2: And so I'm going to try this new thing of

748
00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:07,560
Speaker 2: like letting some guards down and let you in and

749
00:40:07,640 --> 00:40:10,680
Speaker 2: be intimate with you. Yes, and that was really hard

750
00:40:10,760 --> 00:40:12,839
Speaker 2: for me, but that's why our relationship is the way

751
00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:17,799
Speaker 2: it is. So I think that in this show, intimacy

752
00:40:17,880 --> 00:40:20,200
Speaker 2: is what's missing in her relationship with her husband and

753
00:40:20,280 --> 00:40:23,680
Speaker 2: she finds it Margo sees her or at least is

754
00:40:23,719 --> 00:40:27,440
Speaker 2: feigning to or whatever. However, this is unfolding but to

755
00:40:27,600 --> 00:40:30,959
Speaker 2: be seen. And I think that Margo is being seen

756
00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:34,560
Speaker 2: in a different light by Sophie as well, because all

757
00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:36,600
Speaker 2: of her gals that she hangs out with, it's very

758
00:40:37,120 --> 00:40:39,600
Speaker 2: on a very different surface than it is with Brittany

759
00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:42,000
Speaker 2: who comes in and it is very emotionally intelligent and

760
00:40:42,040 --> 00:40:46,960
Speaker 2: sees different facets of Margo. And I think the intimacy

761
00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:50,000
Speaker 2: part is what most people are looking for, and whether

762
00:40:50,000 --> 00:40:51,640
Speaker 2: it's with a woman or a man or whatever. I

763
00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:55,160
Speaker 2: wish everyone could go out there and find an intimate partner.

764
00:40:55,239 --> 00:40:58,280
Speaker 1: Yes, well, after the four of us were out on Saturday,

765
00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:01,000
Speaker 1: Ash even was like, oh, she was like, I know

766
00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:04,200
Speaker 1: she's our people, but like he's also, he's my people.

767
00:41:04,880 --> 00:41:08,520
Speaker 2: I was like he had the same thing about like

768
00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:11,000
Speaker 2: I really like that girl, as she seems so cool.

769
00:41:11,400 --> 00:41:13,279
Speaker 2: See can we hang out? I was like, well, they

770
00:41:13,320 --> 00:41:20,560
Speaker 2: live on the East Coast, but yes.

771
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:23,400
Speaker 1: It's so cool and how how does it feel?

772
00:41:23,480 --> 00:41:23,560
Speaker 2: Like?

773
00:41:24,040 --> 00:41:27,640
Speaker 1: Yes, the representations gorgeous and yes, what a freeing experience

774
00:41:27,719 --> 00:41:31,640
Speaker 1: to be directed by women and to have real intimacy

775
00:41:31,680 --> 00:41:35,520
Speaker 1: be part of sexuality instead of sexuality, be the exclusive

776
00:41:35,560 --> 00:41:41,760
Speaker 1: representation of intimacy. Like also, even just because you girls

777
00:41:41,760 --> 00:41:45,360
Speaker 1: are my friends, like my d ms are so filled

778
00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:48,920
Speaker 1: with the whole game, Annette, who's so happy about this show?

779
00:41:48,719 --> 00:41:50,839
Speaker 1: How is the experience for you?

780
00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:51,239
Speaker 2: And I?

781
00:41:51,280 --> 00:41:53,960
Speaker 1: And I am curious too because we are in a

782
00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:58,439
Speaker 1: moment where queer women who date women and then date men,

783
00:41:58,520 --> 00:42:03,000
Speaker 1: or queer women who wind up mary men are in

784
00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:08,799
Speaker 1: a struggle about what their identity looks like, what biphobia

785
00:42:08,840 --> 00:42:11,600
Speaker 1: looks like, what what the judgment of lesbians looks like like.

786
00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:16,520
Speaker 1: It's a It's a mishmashy mess. How how do you

787
00:42:17,280 --> 00:42:22,040
Speaker 1: see it in terms of what you're representing? What's the feedback?

788
00:42:22,200 --> 00:42:24,320
Speaker 1: How does it feel? Are you having the best time?

789
00:42:24,520 --> 00:42:26,919
Speaker 2: I'm having the best time. I don't. I also don't

790
00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:30,440
Speaker 2: want to claim that property of like I'm represent you

791
00:42:30,480 --> 00:42:32,680
Speaker 2: know what I mean? I don't just playing, but I'm

792
00:42:32,680 --> 00:42:35,239
Speaker 2: playing this woman. And I'm so happy that people are

793
00:42:35,719 --> 00:42:39,600
Speaker 2: again feeling seen maybe or feeling that there's representation on

794
00:42:39,680 --> 00:42:46,040
Speaker 2: TV for them. That's all beautiful. Yeah, and I And

795
00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:49,880
Speaker 2: again it's back to that thing of like I to

796
00:42:51,000 --> 00:42:54,200
Speaker 2: have to label yourself is so crazy. It's just all

797
00:42:54,239 --> 00:42:56,920
Speaker 2: the label actually is that it's condensed to just human.

798
00:42:57,320 --> 00:42:59,880
Speaker 2: You're just humans. All of what you just said, like

799
00:43:00,760 --> 00:43:04,279
Speaker 2: lesbian and then straight and then or whatever your preference is.

800
00:43:04,320 --> 00:43:06,759
Speaker 2: That's just the human experience. So the fact that we

801
00:43:06,760 --> 00:43:08,359
Speaker 2: have to label it all the time is a shame

802
00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:11,680
Speaker 2: because again that comes with different levels of shame. And like,

803
00:43:11,960 --> 00:43:16,799
Speaker 2: you know, but and I'll say it again, I think

804
00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:21,239
Speaker 2: most people are born fluid, and I think that society

805
00:43:21,360 --> 00:43:23,120
Speaker 2: just kind of says you have to be one or

806
00:43:23,120 --> 00:43:24,879
Speaker 2: the other, you have to fit in a pocket, and

807
00:43:25,239 --> 00:43:27,239
Speaker 2: you don't. Yeah, And I think that's what's so fun

808
00:43:27,280 --> 00:43:27,920
Speaker 2: about this show.

809
00:43:28,160 --> 00:43:41,439
Speaker 1: Yeah, and now a word from our wonderful sponsors. By

810
00:43:41,480 --> 00:43:44,960
Speaker 1: the way, what I certainly learned and I will never

811
00:43:45,000 --> 00:43:50,640
Speaker 1: forget this sort of aha moment for me of you know,

812
00:43:50,719 --> 00:43:55,200
Speaker 1: going through my own dissolution and realizing like I built

813
00:43:55,200 --> 00:43:58,520
Speaker 1: this picture perfect life and what I learned in the

814
00:43:58,560 --> 00:44:01,560
Speaker 1: first year of it was that it really wasn't and

815
00:44:02,040 --> 00:44:03,680
Speaker 1: how do you reconcile that? And what do you do?

816
00:44:03,760 --> 00:44:07,080
Speaker 1: And I will never forget having this conversation because I'd

817
00:44:07,120 --> 00:44:10,040
Speaker 1: been away from everyone, and when you're isolated, it can

818
00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:16,160
Speaker 1: be harder to deal with hardship. And I remember facetiming

819
00:44:16,200 --> 00:44:17,719
Speaker 1: one of my best friends. I was at the point

820
00:44:17,719 --> 00:44:19,320
Speaker 1: where I was like, I can only tell two people

821
00:44:19,320 --> 00:44:22,879
Speaker 1: a day that I have to take apart the whole

822
00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:26,919
Speaker 1: house I've built essentially like brick by brick, and it's

823
00:44:26,960 --> 00:44:29,239
Speaker 1: too hard to have this conversation. And I called one

824
00:44:29,280 --> 00:44:33,160
Speaker 1: of my best friends, Rory, who has a phenomenal podcast

825
00:44:33,160 --> 00:44:35,279
Speaker 1: about the horrors of dating and is coming out with

826
00:44:35,320 --> 00:44:37,799
Speaker 1: a book, like the perfect person to talk about, like

827
00:44:39,560 --> 00:44:41,279
Speaker 1: I'm waking up to the fact that this is so

828
00:44:42,640 --> 00:44:45,400
Speaker 1: and what am I going to do? And Rory was like,

829
00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:47,680
Speaker 1: I'm so proud of you, and we've been waiting and this,

830
00:44:47,680 --> 00:44:49,360
Speaker 1: that and the other was just the most supportive friend.

831
00:44:50,080 --> 00:44:52,440
Speaker 1: And she said like, but what happened? Like what's gone on?

832
00:44:52,600 --> 00:44:52,759
Speaker 2: You know?

833
00:44:52,760 --> 00:44:54,160
Speaker 1: Because I called her from the middle of the night

834
00:44:54,160 --> 00:44:56,799
Speaker 1: in London, and I was like, ah, I just like

835
00:44:58,280 --> 00:45:01,280
Speaker 1: we're performers, right, we know how to keep things under wraps.

836
00:45:01,360 --> 00:45:03,040
Speaker 1: We know how to smile and do our jobs no

837
00:45:03,080 --> 00:45:06,719
Speaker 1: matter what's going on at home. And I was like,

838
00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:09,480
Speaker 1: I like in a room like full of people there

839
00:45:09,560 --> 00:45:12,120
Speaker 1: was like prass and I saw a couple of my girlfriends,

840
00:45:12,160 --> 00:45:13,799
Speaker 1: and you know, I've been in Europe by myself for

841
00:45:13,840 --> 00:45:15,960
Speaker 1: three months and I saw some of my friends and

842
00:45:16,000 --> 00:45:17,520
Speaker 1: I was just like in the corner with all these

843
00:45:17,520 --> 00:45:20,759
Speaker 1: great like power lesbians sobbing about how bad things are.

844
00:45:21,280 --> 00:45:24,560
Speaker 1: And she was like, well, yeah, because women obviously you

845
00:45:24,640 --> 00:45:27,600
Speaker 1: need that. She goes, I just have to say, I know,

846
00:45:27,680 --> 00:45:30,600
Speaker 1: your like role in life is that you're here to

847
00:45:30,600 --> 00:45:34,680
Speaker 1: dismantle the patriarchy. You want to create real equity. She

848
00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:36,600
Speaker 1: was like, I just don't think you like men.

849
00:45:37,000 --> 00:45:38,800
Speaker 2: And I was like, no, but I.

850
00:45:38,320 --> 00:45:40,400
Speaker 1: I do like Kenny and Cameron and all our restriens.

851
00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:44,160
Speaker 1: She goes, no, no, no, no, I think like intimately, I

852
00:45:44,200 --> 00:45:46,799
Speaker 1: think you think you're into men and women, and I

853
00:45:46,840 --> 00:45:48,919
Speaker 1: actually think you really don't like men.

854
00:45:50,200 --> 00:45:53,080
Speaker 2: And I was like, yea, I have a relationship with

855
00:45:53,080 --> 00:45:54,320
Speaker 2: a man that was like interesting.

856
00:45:54,719 --> 00:45:57,640
Speaker 1: Is there actually a reverse version of this where society

857
00:45:57,680 --> 00:46:00,800
Speaker 1: has made me think I'm like somewhere fluid in the

858
00:46:00,840 --> 00:46:06,040
Speaker 1: middle and I'm actually really not like is that my moment?

859
00:46:06,280 --> 00:46:08,320
Speaker 2: Is that? A huh?

860
00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:10,640
Speaker 1: I've always been open, but like, have I been as

861
00:46:10,680 --> 00:46:14,120
Speaker 1: open as I as I deserve for myself?

862
00:46:14,200 --> 00:46:14,359
Speaker 2: Right?

863
00:46:14,680 --> 00:46:18,600
Speaker 1: And so to your point, regardless of what direction those

864
00:46:18,680 --> 00:46:22,799
Speaker 1: labels go in they I think they can reduce the

865
00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:25,400
Speaker 1: permission you give yourself to, Yeah, to find yourself in

866
00:46:25,400 --> 00:46:25,759
Speaker 1: the world.

867
00:46:26,080 --> 00:46:29,360
Speaker 2: Absolutely, And look how hard it is to be anything

868
00:46:29,400 --> 00:46:32,279
Speaker 2: other than straight right now and live and a deer

869
00:46:32,360 --> 00:46:35,920
Speaker 2: to the rules, the rules whatever, those are that part.

870
00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:40,160
Speaker 2: But yeah, it's much easier to fall into Let me

871
00:46:40,200 --> 00:46:41,840
Speaker 2: get the house and the white pick of fence and

872
00:46:41,880 --> 00:46:44,279
Speaker 2: the dog and the babies and the marriage. And you're

873
00:46:44,320 --> 00:46:48,600
Speaker 2: like boring, Like, whereas who's talking about the intimacy, who's

874
00:46:48,600 --> 00:46:51,000
Speaker 2: talking about being seen? He's talking about communication? What does

875
00:46:51,040 --> 00:46:55,520
Speaker 2: it look like inside behind closed doors? Yes, what is

876
00:46:55,520 --> 00:46:57,239
Speaker 2: that relationship? What should it be?

877
00:46:57,480 --> 00:47:00,240
Speaker 1: It's been really interesting because I have a girlfriend who

878
00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:04,479
Speaker 1: you know, came from like a very traditional religious turned

879
00:47:04,520 --> 00:47:08,360
Speaker 1: out to be like culty, terrifying thing, but had that

880
00:47:08,520 --> 00:47:12,560
Speaker 1: as well. Yeah, and the unpacking we've done recently together

881
00:47:12,719 --> 00:47:16,160
Speaker 1: of what it looks like to not only have to

882
00:47:16,200 --> 00:47:20,160
Speaker 1: go through the dismantling of the image of your life,

883
00:47:20,719 --> 00:47:22,880
Speaker 1: but to reckon with the fact that there is a

884
00:47:22,960 --> 00:47:27,680
Speaker 1: large part of society that would rather you be in

885
00:47:27,760 --> 00:47:31,840
Speaker 1: a traditional marriage that is toxic, violent, full of theft,

886
00:47:32,480 --> 00:47:36,440
Speaker 1: full of emotional fiscal finance. You know, physical, any kind

887
00:47:36,440 --> 00:47:42,120
Speaker 1: of abuse, then be holistically happy with someone the same

888
00:47:42,160 --> 00:47:44,520
Speaker 1: gender as you. You're like, WHOA, We've gotten so far

889
00:47:44,560 --> 00:47:47,120
Speaker 1: out of it's so crazy, Like we're off the track

890
00:47:47,239 --> 00:47:52,840
Speaker 1: here of goodness for people. And so I just love

891
00:47:53,040 --> 00:47:56,680
Speaker 1: that this show you're making that that is so you

892
00:47:56,719 --> 00:47:59,600
Speaker 1: called it popcorn, and I'm like, no, it's art because

893
00:47:59,640 --> 00:48:02,920
Speaker 1: it's what I experience as a viewer of your show

894
00:48:03,120 --> 00:48:05,920
Speaker 1: is the camp of it. It's self awareness.

895
00:48:06,520 --> 00:48:07,280
Speaker 2: It is sure.

896
00:48:07,480 --> 00:48:12,960
Speaker 1: It is playing into total subversive subversiveness and total stereotype

897
00:48:12,960 --> 00:48:15,200
Speaker 1: at the same time, which is so hard to balance.

898
00:48:16,040 --> 00:48:19,120
Speaker 1: And you're shocking people all the time and reminding people

899
00:48:19,160 --> 00:48:22,000
Speaker 1: that everyone's kind of going through a version of the

900
00:48:22,040 --> 00:48:26,400
Speaker 1: same thing in this tightened television environment. And I'm just like,

901
00:48:26,680 --> 00:48:28,920
Speaker 1: this is what the show we need right now because

902
00:48:28,920 --> 00:48:31,279
Speaker 1: people are out here coming for gay marriage and like

903
00:48:31,360 --> 00:48:34,600
Speaker 1: things are crazy and we needed this.

904
00:48:34,880 --> 00:48:38,040
Speaker 2: I'm so glad. I listen. I give kudos to Rebecca

905
00:48:38,080 --> 00:48:41,000
Speaker 2: Cutter for creating this. This is really we're along for

906
00:48:41,040 --> 00:48:43,040
Speaker 2: the ride, and I'm so happy to be on this ride.

907
00:48:43,080 --> 00:48:45,520
Speaker 2: And I love it. I think it's brilliant and I

908
00:48:45,600 --> 00:48:48,600
Speaker 2: love towing that line of like I say, popcorn because

909
00:48:48,640 --> 00:48:51,600
Speaker 2: I think it's entertaining, you know, and it is. It's entertainment.

910
00:48:51,680 --> 00:48:56,080
Speaker 2: It's supposed to be entertaining, but yes, it has definitely

911
00:48:56,400 --> 00:48:59,560
Speaker 2: a lot of different elements to it that are causing,

912
00:49:00,320 --> 00:49:01,040
Speaker 2: and rightfully so.

913
00:49:01,880 --> 00:49:07,680
Speaker 1: I also think entertainment sometimes gets knocked as though it's

914
00:49:07,719 --> 00:49:11,879
Speaker 1: frivolous when it's actually the most powerful medicine. Like the

915
00:49:11,880 --> 00:49:17,080
Speaker 1: thing that changed American opinion on civil rights for gay

916
00:49:17,120 --> 00:49:20,600
Speaker 1: people was Will and Grace. Oh wow, people were like, oh,

917
00:49:20,680 --> 00:49:27,399
Speaker 1: we love those guys, Oh why do we judge people like, well,

918
00:49:27,400 --> 00:49:29,760
Speaker 1: the gay people I know are nice and wait a second,

919
00:49:30,080 --> 00:49:35,120
Speaker 1: and it really helped shift public opinion. And I think

920
00:49:35,200 --> 00:49:43,080
Speaker 1: it's incredibly important to entertain people and remind them to

921
00:49:43,120 --> 00:49:47,560
Speaker 1: be curious about their neighbors instead of judgmental. You know. Absolutely,

922
00:49:47,600 --> 00:49:49,680
Speaker 1: it's more valuable now than ever, and I think it's

923
00:49:49,719 --> 00:49:52,919
Speaker 1: been so valuable for so long. And I think it's

924
00:49:53,040 --> 00:49:58,520
Speaker 1: why when people ask why so many entertainers are pro

925
00:49:59,360 --> 00:50:04,439
Speaker 1: social justice or universal health care or policies that take

926
00:50:04,480 --> 00:50:07,360
Speaker 1: care of people, it's because we get to know people

927
00:50:07,520 --> 00:50:08,920
Speaker 1: everywhere and every kind.

928
00:50:08,719 --> 00:50:11,719
Speaker 2: Of from all different walks of life exactly, absolutely.

929
00:50:11,400 --> 00:50:14,239
Speaker 1: Exactly, and even for you, like your mental health advocacy

930
00:50:14,840 --> 00:50:18,799
Speaker 1: is something I've always admired the way you've shared, you know,

931
00:50:18,960 --> 00:50:23,280
Speaker 1: about your experience learning to caretake for a parent struggling.

932
00:50:22,880 --> 00:50:25,759
Speaker 2: With depression, Like yeah, parentified.

933
00:50:25,239 --> 00:50:28,960
Speaker 1: Child stuff, mental health like these are heavy topics, but

934
00:50:29,239 --> 00:50:33,560
Speaker 1: when brought to light, they they can be lifted up.

935
00:50:34,040 --> 00:50:36,800
Speaker 2: Absolutely. Yeah, And I think you're right. I think bringing

936
00:50:36,800 --> 00:50:39,000
Speaker 2: it through entertainment is a great way to do it

937
00:50:39,040 --> 00:50:41,440
Speaker 2: so it doesn't I always think about like PSAs and

938
00:50:41,480 --> 00:50:45,040
Speaker 2: how heavy PSAs can be sometimes, like we should find

939
00:50:45,040 --> 00:50:47,400
Speaker 2: a way to do PSAs that are through comedy so

940
00:50:47,480 --> 00:50:50,160
Speaker 2: that it really resonates with people. But I agree. I

941
00:50:50,200 --> 00:50:53,440
Speaker 2: just think that, you know, mental health stuff was always

942
00:50:53,840 --> 00:50:55,719
Speaker 2: like nobody talked about it when I was a kid.

943
00:50:55,920 --> 00:50:57,959
Speaker 2: That was it just I didn't even know. I didn't

944
00:50:57,960 --> 00:51:00,440
Speaker 2: even know that my mom was depressed. I didn't even

945
00:51:00,440 --> 00:51:03,200
Speaker 2: know that word. So I just was trying to figure

946
00:51:03,200 --> 00:51:06,480
Speaker 2: out what was happening all the time, right without talking

947
00:51:06,480 --> 00:51:08,560
Speaker 2: to anybody, of course, you know, and it was just

948
00:51:08,600 --> 00:51:10,520
Speaker 2: me and my mom because my dad was doesn't even

949
00:51:10,600 --> 00:51:12,600
Speaker 2: tell him, like what would I say? What were the

950
00:51:12,640 --> 00:51:15,840
Speaker 2: words that I was going to use? Right, So having

951
00:51:15,880 --> 00:51:18,719
Speaker 2: that now and having a kid who's twelve years old,

952
00:51:18,800 --> 00:51:22,640
Speaker 2: and how they have a class in school every single

953
00:51:22,640 --> 00:51:26,200
Speaker 2: week called life Skills and it's all about wow, mental

954
00:51:26,239 --> 00:51:31,719
Speaker 2: health and communication, and you know, it's fantastic. I have

955
00:51:31,800 --> 00:51:35,200
Speaker 2: a boy who talks about his feelings and that's incredible

956
00:51:35,400 --> 00:51:37,640
Speaker 2: and I think that's the right thing to do, you know,

957
00:51:37,760 --> 00:51:40,239
Speaker 2: And that's and I know that's not across the board,

958
00:51:40,320 --> 00:51:44,239
Speaker 2: not everywhere, but I think we're on our way towards that.

959
00:51:44,360 --> 00:51:46,640
Speaker 2: And the more that we talk about it and the

960
00:51:46,640 --> 00:51:48,680
Speaker 2: more we put it out there, well.

961
00:51:48,520 --> 00:51:50,360
Speaker 1: Just to say, hey, this happens to everybody.

962
00:51:50,400 --> 00:51:54,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's so normal. Yeah, unfortunately, but it is.

963
00:51:54,120 --> 00:51:57,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, it's really interesting. Do you think do you

964
00:51:57,760 --> 00:52:00,359
Speaker 1: think that was part of what led you where you're

965
00:52:00,400 --> 00:52:03,000
Speaker 1: acting career to study psychology, which, by the way, is

966
00:52:03,160 --> 00:52:05,040
Speaker 1: such good fuel for an acting career.

967
00:52:05,600 --> 00:52:08,160
Speaker 2: I think for sure that's what led me to psychology.

968
00:52:08,360 --> 00:52:12,960
Speaker 2: I think again, not having access to a therapist or

969
00:52:13,000 --> 00:52:15,440
Speaker 2: even understanding that that's something that I should be reaching

970
00:52:15,440 --> 00:52:21,880
Speaker 2: out to, you know, at seventeen years old, psychology was

971
00:52:21,920 --> 00:52:24,359
Speaker 2: just so fascinating to me. It was so interesting because

972
00:52:24,360 --> 00:52:26,000
Speaker 2: all of a sudden I was getting answers to my

973
00:52:26,040 --> 00:52:28,600
Speaker 2: own questions. Yes, they're going oh my God, this could

974
00:52:28,640 --> 00:52:31,320
Speaker 2: be so helpful for everyone else. And my my younger

975
00:52:31,360 --> 00:52:34,319
Speaker 2: brother had stuff going on and nobody understood it, and

976
00:52:34,400 --> 00:52:39,880
Speaker 2: schools weren't helping out. OCD really severe, and so it

977
00:52:39,960 --> 00:52:42,600
Speaker 2: was really difficult in school for him, and there was

978
00:52:42,680 --> 00:52:44,560
Speaker 2: nobody there who understood it or could help him. And

979
00:52:44,640 --> 00:52:47,120
Speaker 2: so I thought, you know what I met with the

980
00:52:47,360 --> 00:52:49,319
Speaker 2: Health Minister of Canada. I was like, I'd like to

981
00:52:49,360 --> 00:52:52,719
Speaker 2: change the school systems please. I'd like to make sure

982
00:52:52,760 --> 00:52:55,840
Speaker 2: that we have counselors in every classroom, especially in high schools.

983
00:52:55,840 --> 00:52:57,279
Speaker 2: They can nip things in the butt and be there

984
00:52:57,280 --> 00:52:59,800
Speaker 2: to support people. Goes, all right, once you've got your education,

985
00:53:00,080 --> 00:53:02,520
Speaker 2: come on in and we'll sit down and make a plan. Wow,

986
00:53:02,680 --> 00:53:06,520
Speaker 2: still waiting for me. I mean, you know, acting took over,

987
00:53:06,640 --> 00:53:09,000
Speaker 2: but but I do think that that's what led me

988
00:53:09,040 --> 00:53:11,880
Speaker 2: into it was just all the different and and and

989
00:53:12,000 --> 00:53:15,319
Speaker 2: also friends and people in my own high school and

990
00:53:16,320 --> 00:53:18,400
Speaker 2: two people who took their own lives, two kids that

991
00:53:18,400 --> 00:53:20,160
Speaker 2: I knew in high school who took their own lives

992
00:53:20,280 --> 00:53:23,839
Speaker 2: because of mental health issues and nobody was talking about it.

993
00:53:24,560 --> 00:53:27,279
Speaker 2: So it's just stuff like that that I think led

994
00:53:27,280 --> 00:53:30,440
Speaker 2: me to want to get into it. And yes, great

995
00:53:30,480 --> 00:53:33,840
Speaker 2: for acting because because you're going into somebody's psyche and

996
00:53:33,840 --> 00:53:36,280
Speaker 2: going all right, what's their background and what have happened

997
00:53:36,360 --> 00:53:40,799
Speaker 2: in their life? Yeah, Margo Banks? Where does Margo come from?

998
00:53:41,000 --> 00:53:43,680
Speaker 2: Boy's story? Yeah?

999
00:53:44,640 --> 00:53:48,480
Speaker 1: What are for folks at home? What are the things

1000
00:53:48,520 --> 00:53:50,640
Speaker 1: you you want them to know about? Not just the

1001
00:53:50,680 --> 00:53:52,920
Speaker 1: show obviously, like if you're living under a rock and

1002
00:53:52,960 --> 00:53:56,279
Speaker 1: you haven't watched it, catch up, but in terms of

1003
00:53:56,320 --> 00:53:59,360
Speaker 1: things that are important to you, like what organizations you

1004
00:53:59,400 --> 00:54:02,560
Speaker 1: want to tell every listener of the show about right now?

1005
00:54:02,600 --> 00:54:06,960
Speaker 2: Well, you know, I again, mental health is a huge

1006
00:54:06,960 --> 00:54:10,200
Speaker 2: one for me. I want everyone to feel like it's

1007
00:54:10,239 --> 00:54:15,320
Speaker 2: okay to talk about everything that's going on in their lives.

1008
00:54:15,840 --> 00:54:20,960
Speaker 2: And kids specifically are a huge one because I know

1009
00:54:21,400 --> 00:54:24,680
Speaker 2: certainly growing up I didn't always have the best mentors.

1010
00:54:24,960 --> 00:54:27,359
Speaker 2: You know, my dad is wonderful, but he was far away.

1011
00:54:27,440 --> 00:54:30,080
Speaker 2: My mom is wonderful, but she had especially she was

1012
00:54:30,080 --> 00:54:35,680
Speaker 2: struggling in her own stuff. Yeah, So to give children

1013
00:54:36,800 --> 00:54:41,760
Speaker 2: especially a voice is really huge. So it's a children's

1014
00:54:41,760 --> 00:54:44,920
Speaker 2: mental health organization and it used to be called Honor Sleeves,

1015
00:54:44,920 --> 00:54:49,400
Speaker 2: but it's Angel Carter who started it, and she's Aaron

1016
00:54:49,480 --> 00:54:51,880
Speaker 2: Carter of the Carter family that Carter and Aaron Carter

1017
00:54:52,320 --> 00:54:55,120
Speaker 2: went through some severe mental health issues that ended up

1018
00:54:55,160 --> 00:55:00,360
Speaker 2: in his death, and so she started this organization a

1019
00:55:00,360 --> 00:55:02,399
Speaker 2: few years ago and I absolutely love it. And they

1020
00:55:02,400 --> 00:55:07,320
Speaker 2: have this website that has all these tools for schools, caretakers, anybody,

1021
00:55:07,440 --> 00:55:12,120
Speaker 2: parents on how to begin conversations. They have complete curriculums

1022
00:55:12,120 --> 00:55:15,319
Speaker 2: for schools to incorporate to help children out. So I

1023
00:55:15,320 --> 00:55:17,960
Speaker 2: think that one's really important, starting from you know, the

1024
00:55:18,000 --> 00:55:22,399
Speaker 2: ground up, when they're young and susceptible and receptive as well.

1025
00:55:22,480 --> 00:55:25,080
Speaker 2: I think that's really important. So that's that's one of

1026
00:55:25,120 --> 00:55:27,480
Speaker 2: my biggest ones. But there's a lot of different I mean,

1027
00:55:27,600 --> 00:55:30,560
Speaker 2: Environmental Media Association, I've been aboard on the board for

1028
00:55:30,600 --> 00:55:34,360
Speaker 2: that for a very long time. And Opportunity and Turn

1029
00:55:34,360 --> 00:55:37,880
Speaker 2: Opportunity International, which is a micro financing organization that focus

1030
00:55:37,920 --> 00:55:43,080
Speaker 2: mainly on women and they give them financial aid but

1031
00:55:43,160 --> 00:55:46,719
Speaker 2: also courses on how to start a business and how

1032
00:55:46,800 --> 00:55:49,600
Speaker 2: to sustain that. So it's not just like here's some money,

1033
00:55:49,600 --> 00:55:51,800
Speaker 2: good luck, it's.

1034
00:55:51,160 --> 00:55:53,319
Speaker 1: Like here's here's the seed of what you need and

1035
00:55:53,400 --> 00:55:54,120
Speaker 1: here's how to build.

1036
00:55:55,400 --> 00:55:59,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, so those are just focusing on that kind of stuff.

1037
00:55:59,520 --> 00:56:01,000
Speaker 2: Keeping the world turning.

1038
00:56:00,760 --> 00:56:04,160
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, I think speaking truth to power is so important.

1039
00:56:04,880 --> 00:56:07,520
Speaker 1: But if if we do that and then don't follow

1040
00:56:07,560 --> 00:56:10,319
Speaker 1: it with the opportunity to act, I think we can

1041
00:56:10,360 --> 00:56:13,640
Speaker 1: just make people feel even more scared. And so the

1042
00:56:13,760 --> 00:56:17,120
Speaker 1: action is so important. And what I love about our

1043
00:56:17,200 --> 00:56:19,880
Speaker 1: jobs and being able to highlight a plethora of things

1044
00:56:19,880 --> 00:56:23,359
Speaker 1: we're passionate about is like, not every listener is going

1045
00:56:23,440 --> 00:56:25,879
Speaker 1: to say, oh, that's my one issue to one thing.

1046
00:56:26,080 --> 00:56:29,880
Speaker 1: Totally everyone is inspired to do something, and so you

1047
00:56:29,880 --> 00:56:32,839
Speaker 1: know when people will say, as I know they've said

1048
00:56:32,840 --> 00:56:34,359
Speaker 1: this to you and they've said it to me, as like, oh,

1049
00:56:34,400 --> 00:56:36,839
Speaker 1: you know, you should really pick a lane, It's like, no,

1050
00:56:36,960 --> 00:56:39,160
Speaker 1: I get to be a megaphone so I can help

1051
00:56:39,200 --> 00:56:42,400
Speaker 1: everyone else pick a lane. I should be a menu,

1052
00:56:42,880 --> 00:56:45,160
Speaker 1: and then everybody else gets to like pick what they're

1053
00:56:45,160 --> 00:56:46,000
Speaker 1: inspired about.

1054
00:56:46,320 --> 00:56:48,920
Speaker 2: It's just it's just pointing people in the right direction

1055
00:56:49,239 --> 00:56:51,520
Speaker 2: because I know I'm the same way that the things

1056
00:56:51,560 --> 00:56:54,080
Speaker 2: that I'm passionate about is going, Well, where do I start?

1057
00:56:54,280 --> 00:56:55,880
Speaker 2: How do I start? I don't want to just like

1058
00:56:57,280 --> 00:57:00,080
Speaker 2: also give money, but I also want to see you

1059
00:57:00,200 --> 00:57:03,560
Speaker 2: like on the ground grassroots, what could be done? And

1060
00:57:03,560 --> 00:57:04,960
Speaker 2: what are the actions I can take?

1061
00:57:05,080 --> 00:57:08,399
Speaker 1: Well, and sustained engagement is what really creates change. Like, yeah,

1062
00:57:08,480 --> 00:57:11,080
Speaker 1: money is valuable, but I know there's college kids who

1063
00:57:11,080 --> 00:57:13,440
Speaker 1: listen to this podcast that are like, Hi, I'm broke,

1064
00:57:13,640 --> 00:57:15,319
Speaker 1: and I'm like, yeah, we've been there.

1065
00:57:15,520 --> 00:57:19,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, given your time, volunteers is just as valuable, and

1066
00:57:19,560 --> 00:57:23,080
Speaker 2: to to sustain engagement is what changes community. So it

1067
00:57:23,120 --> 00:57:25,920
Speaker 2: feels tell people if you're broke, tell people who have

1068
00:57:26,000 --> 00:57:28,760
Speaker 2: money to invest in people who don't to get involved

1069
00:57:28,760 --> 00:57:31,640
Speaker 2: in volunteer. Like there's so many different ways, but it's

1070
00:57:32,160 --> 00:57:34,440
Speaker 2: like nowadays, I feel like it's so much easier because

1071
00:57:34,720 --> 00:57:36,680
Speaker 2: you can go online and there are websites. I think

1072
00:57:36,680 --> 00:57:37,720
Speaker 2: it's hit.

1073
00:57:37,960 --> 00:57:42,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, we never have any of this. Okay before I

1074
00:57:42,240 --> 00:57:44,120
Speaker 1: let you go, so you can get to your next thing.

1075
00:57:44,960 --> 00:57:46,200
Speaker 1: When do we get season two?

1076
00:57:47,280 --> 00:57:48,440
Speaker 2: Next summer? Baby?

1077
00:57:49,760 --> 00:57:52,120
Speaker 1: But like I want it now, I know you Okay,

1078
00:57:52,160 --> 00:57:55,520
Speaker 1: have to wait, okay, all right, next time. Sometimes the

1079
00:57:55,520 --> 00:57:57,080
Speaker 1: streaming shows don't come out for like two and a

1080
00:57:57,080 --> 00:57:59,360
Speaker 1: half years. Yeah, so I can, I can, I can?

1081
00:57:59,560 --> 00:58:02,320
Speaker 2: I can wait. They got smart and we're starting already

1082
00:58:02,520 --> 00:58:05,479
Speaker 2: now in November to just found out about season two.

1083
00:58:05,760 --> 00:58:08,880
Speaker 2: Poor Rebecca Cutter is under pressure just writing everything. Usually

1084
00:58:08,920 --> 00:58:10,640
Speaker 2: you get like five months of a writer's room. But

1085
00:58:10,760 --> 00:58:12,640
Speaker 2: she's got a month and a half till we start. Oh,

1086
00:58:12,760 --> 00:58:14,880
Speaker 2: I hope for all the fans, I hope.

1087
00:58:14,680 --> 00:58:18,280
Speaker 1: Her writer's room is well caffeinated, well stocked. You mentioned

1088
00:58:18,280 --> 00:58:23,760
Speaker 1: it earlier as working on feeding the good essentially you.

1089
00:58:26,080 --> 00:58:27,720
Speaker 1: Is there anything else that feels like a work in

1090
00:58:27,760 --> 00:58:36,560
Speaker 1: progress in your life or is that really the overarching gorgeous.

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00:58:34,280 --> 00:58:40,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's it's. I am a work in progress.

1092
00:58:41,640 --> 00:58:45,840
Speaker 2: We all are. I am working on myself every single

1093
00:58:45,920 --> 00:58:51,200
Speaker 2: day and using the pause method of before I say anything,

1094
00:58:52,080 --> 00:58:55,280
Speaker 2: what is the purpose and what do I want to

1095
00:58:56,040 --> 00:58:58,200
Speaker 2: put out there and what do I want to get back?

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00:58:59,240 --> 00:59:01,760
Speaker 2: But I feel like I've come to a place in

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00:59:01,800 --> 00:59:06,040
Speaker 2: my life where I feel like, here I am. Oh,

1098
00:59:06,080 --> 00:59:08,840
Speaker 2: I finally see who I am, and I see it,

1099
00:59:09,480 --> 00:59:12,080
Speaker 2: working on it, but I'm loving it. And so yeah,

1100
00:59:12,200 --> 00:59:15,479
Speaker 2: I just think my dad is the one who always

1101
00:59:15,520 --> 00:59:18,040
Speaker 2: said look for the silver lining, and he's been That's

1102
00:59:18,080 --> 00:59:21,520
Speaker 2: been key in my life because there always is. There

1103
00:59:21,920 --> 00:59:24,320
Speaker 2: always always is. And the biggest one for me was

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00:59:25,000 --> 00:59:28,200
Speaker 2: when my son's father and I split my first husband.

1105
00:59:28,240 --> 00:59:31,000
Speaker 2: I split my son was only four months old, and

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00:59:31,040 --> 00:59:35,320
Speaker 2: that was really really tough, and the silver lining was

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00:59:35,320 --> 00:59:37,600
Speaker 2: that one of my best girlfriends moved in with me

1108
00:59:38,000 --> 00:59:40,439
Speaker 2: for a year and a half, helped me raise my son,

1109
00:59:40,680 --> 00:59:44,040
Speaker 2: and we had the best time. Yeah. And I wouldn't

1110
00:59:44,040 --> 00:59:46,160
Speaker 2: have had that had I stayed, had me and my

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00:59:46,240 --> 00:59:47,880
Speaker 2: husband worked out, we would have had a different journey,

1112
00:59:47,880 --> 00:59:49,960
Speaker 2: would have been different and beautiful and great. But this

1113
00:59:50,120 --> 00:59:50,680
Speaker 2: was awesome.

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00:59:50,920 --> 00:59:51,120
Speaker 1: Yeah.

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00:59:51,360 --> 00:59:53,880
Speaker 2: So the silver linings are really something to look out

1116
00:59:53,880 --> 00:59:54,680
Speaker 2: for always.

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00:59:54,880 --> 00:59:55,320
Speaker 1: Yeah.

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00:59:55,600 --> 01:00:01,040
Speaker 2: But yeah, just just working on you know, authenticity and positivity.

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01:00:01,240 --> 01:00:04,439
Speaker 1: I love that. Well, you are a human light bulb.

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01:00:04,560 --> 01:00:07,400
Speaker 1: You are the most joyous to be around. Thank you

1121
01:00:07,440 --> 01:00:12,760
Speaker 1: for coming today, and tell Rebecca to write faster.