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Speaker 1: This is me eat your podcast coming at you shirtless, severely,

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Speaker 1: bug bitten, and in my case, underwear. Listening to podcast,

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Speaker 1: you can't predict anything presented by first, like creating proven

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Speaker 1: versatile hunting apparel from Marino bass layers to technical outerwear

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Speaker 1: for every hunt. First like go farther, stay longer. All right,

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Speaker 1: everybody joined the day by by your honest We tell

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Speaker 1: us I haven't seen someone in my heart aches, you

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Speaker 1: haven't seen me so long. You introduced me like a guest.

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Speaker 1: The hell where you been? Dude? We went? It was

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Speaker 1: very abrupt. I was thinking about that the other day.

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Speaker 1: We hunt used to hang out every day like brothers,

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Speaker 1: like nuts on a dog. Then something changed. They were like, ah,

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Speaker 1: you gotta do your and show Yohanny. And the next

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Speaker 1: thing you know, it's been months, nearly a phone call.

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Speaker 1: I don't even know where he's at. I feel like

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Speaker 1: I do more to keep in touch, though, because remember,

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Speaker 1: like I asked, if you want to come get some

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Speaker 1: fish and stuff like that, Yeah, you can steal fish

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Speaker 1: out of the freezer here, did you mystery? Well, listen,

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Speaker 1: we're bringing in Uh, we haven't found him yet, but

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Speaker 1: we're we got some hot leads. On we're bringing into

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Speaker 1: polygraph Examiner, and you're the first guy getting polygraph Chester.

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Speaker 1: There's a literal bounty posted for this. We're going to

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Speaker 1: bring in a polygraph and I'm gonna start peeling people

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Speaker 1: in here, and we're gonna have a guy right on

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Speaker 1: air polygraphing people. I can tell you this much. You

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Speaker 1: start out with some softballs. You're like where you from? Chester,

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Speaker 1: because it sets like a little baseline right, and then

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Speaker 1: you get into the stuff like, so did you put

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Speaker 1: the freezer the where's the cooler? Chester? I don't I

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Speaker 1: don't know where the cooler is. It could be that

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Speaker 1: one sitting right that was empty sitting in there. We're

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Speaker 1: gonna get to it. It's so bad for the person

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Speaker 1: that accidentally took that film accidentally. I got another way.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna trick people into festing up too, because there

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Speaker 1: was some baracouta in there. What had my baracouter? I

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Speaker 1: froze the whole baracouter to experiment with it. That you

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Speaker 1: told me to keep the barracouta in my freezer first spencer,

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Speaker 1: so we didn't lose the baracout No glad to pursue

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Speaker 1: that Glad, I didn't pursue that line of investigation. We'll

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Speaker 1: find out. I got my eyes on your chester because

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Speaker 1: the polygraph examiner is gonna probably want to talk to you,

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Speaker 1: and we're gonna talk to him about how to lead

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Speaker 1: an investigation. We're probably gonna try to bring in someone

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Speaker 1: who deals with sex crimes. But what do you think?

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Speaker 1: What do you think I did? What would you think? Like?

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Speaker 1: I don't eat fish, so why would I take it?

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Speaker 1: Because if if we were conducting, if we if we

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Speaker 1: brought detectives in, they'd probably first talk to you. I'm

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Speaker 1: just guessing us that's Paul Lewis. W'd be like, he's

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Speaker 1: just space Cannady has idea what happened before we get

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Speaker 1: into our main He's not actually our main guest. Oh

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Speaker 1: you were hunting up in Alaska. We didn't talk about

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Speaker 1: that yet. No, Yeah, with Jordan Bud we're hunting cariboo.

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Speaker 1: It was fun. It was great fun bears. We saw

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Speaker 1: one sal with a couple of cubs, same thing like

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Speaker 1: we saw last time, like super blonde, like mega fuzzy.

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Speaker 1: You know, even at two miles you can see the sALS,

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Speaker 1: you know for blowing in the wind and the cubs

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Speaker 1: had they been by themselves. You just said, oh, there's

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Speaker 1: two small black bears. Huh, yeah, I remember we saw

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Speaker 1: that when we're on that sheet punk and uh yeah,

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Speaker 1: one wolf try to buy a camp, but maybe hundred

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Speaker 1: fifty yards and uh, but we do an alder you

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Speaker 1: pulled and fling one out there on them. No, we

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Speaker 1: just had our bows and arrows. We had a rifle.

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Speaker 1: Maybe we would have. But it was good until we

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Speaker 1: had two good days of cariboo action. And then the

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Speaker 1: cariboo faucet got turned off. The turn left right or

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Speaker 1: something them. Yeah, do you think you were at the

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Speaker 1: end of the herd swung different directions that early. I

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Speaker 1: learned a lot about caribou movement because we actually got

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Speaker 1: to talk to the local biologists right before we flew out.

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Speaker 1: He stopped by it and chit chatted, and uh that

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Speaker 1: early there is no real migration. And in general, that

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Speaker 1: forty mile herd doesn't have like I always thought it

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Speaker 1: was a very uh sort I guess, like a linear

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Speaker 1: east to west movement. It's not. It's a circular movement

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Speaker 1: that sometimes goes counterclockwise, sometimes goes clockwise, and they happen

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Speaker 1: to go into Canada and back into the Alaska, you know,

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Speaker 1: as they do this movement, but the earlier in the season,

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Speaker 1: the more spread out they are, and the more they're

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Speaker 1: just smaller groups and just going other different directions. And

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Speaker 1: you've always I've always heard how erratic caribou can be,

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Speaker 1: and we've kind of seen erratic movement on the hunts

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Speaker 1: that we've been on together. But I mean, this was

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Speaker 1: seriously like watching them and we didn't have any bugs.

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Speaker 1: I'll preface it with that, like super cold night the

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Speaker 1: for night we got there, and so really no bugs

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Speaker 1: the entire week, so it wasn't bugs. But you'd just

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Speaker 1: be watching a caribou just moving let's say straight east, hypothetically,

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Speaker 1: stops and feeds for ten fifteen minutes, picks up his head,

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Speaker 1: turns nine degrees, and sprints two yards. He's not getting

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Speaker 1: bugs on him, no, and then stops and feeds a

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Speaker 1: little bit, and maybe he stops for thirty seconds and

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Speaker 1: pulls the shame ship again, or he stops for anyone

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Speaker 1: that I always thought it like he's just getting clear

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Speaker 1: of his flies. I mean, just like maddening to the

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Speaker 1: point where you're like, well, we're gonna put a stock

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Speaker 1: on that one. Let's go two hundred yards towards like

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Speaker 1: behind it, because the thing might just turn around and

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Speaker 1: run towards us. Like we like, it was very hard

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Speaker 1: to pick him off or to get ahead of him. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they were just like that might be a defense mechanism,

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Speaker 1: I pointed Alaska. The last two years I saw the

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Speaker 1: same thing. They might stop in and feed or just

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Speaker 1: stand still for a couple of minutes and then just

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Speaker 1: pick up and run and and the bucks weren't bad,

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Speaker 1: So I thought so too, mate. Maybe they know like

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Speaker 1: I can't stay still too long. Yeah, that definitely could

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Speaker 1: be ye that That was the voice of Bill vander

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Speaker 1: Hayden from Iron Will Broadheads, who Kran pointed out here.

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Speaker 1: Uh he was. He graduated number one out of one thousand,

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Speaker 1: two d and thirty two students at the University of

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Speaker 1: Wisconsin mechanical Engineering. He's gonna talking about Broadhead. He's gonna

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Speaker 1: shuck the corn on Broadheads. It's gonna drop some science

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Speaker 1: on it. He's gonna drop some science on us. And

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Speaker 1: there's gonna there's there's there's Broadhead controversy too. I don't

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Speaker 1: know if people are aware of that. We're gonna get

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Speaker 1: into because we're gonna talk about what happens when you

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Speaker 1: shoot sharp stuff at animals, um and and what goes

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Speaker 1: on there and and and how your success in your

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Speaker 1: failure can come down to what equipment you use and

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Speaker 1: not just where you put it, but what happens once

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Speaker 1: you put it there. Um. Oh, real quick too, we

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Speaker 1: got someone waiting on the line. We have the Angler

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Speaker 1: of the Year waiting on the line. We're not talking

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Speaker 1: about Wally, We're talking about the real anger of the year. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: You know, I was trying to think of like like

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Speaker 1: because because this whole thing, like I don't want to

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Speaker 1: be demeaning, but I was thinking like like bass fishing, No,

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Speaker 1: I don't, like I would I would rather have one

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Speaker 1: wall than ten lar. I grew up in a large

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Speaker 1: mouth lake which I want to fish with Brandon who's

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Speaker 1: on the phone. But I have one wall than ten bass.

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Speaker 1: So I don't mean this as like I'm not this

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Speaker 1: isn't a dig, but the bass anger of the Year,

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Speaker 1: that's like the NBA. Yeah, when the wall Angle of

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Speaker 1: the years like the w n B A like meaning

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Speaker 1: like it just has a lot less awareness, like a

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Speaker 1: lot less awareness. Is that fair? I don't know about

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Speaker 1: the w n b A. It might even be like

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Speaker 1: a lot less awareness, might be like college lacrosse. I

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Speaker 1: was listening to listen. I was listening. Okay, here's the thing.

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Speaker 1: I was listening to Bill Burr's new special. Let let's

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Speaker 1: watch him walk this back. I only thought of this

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Speaker 1: because I was watching and Bill. I was watching Bill

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Speaker 1: Burr's new special, and Bill ber is talking about, uh,

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Speaker 1: these conversations, these endless conversations about the w n b A.

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Speaker 1: What he likes to do is he likes to go

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Speaker 1: to his friends who are women, and say, oh, oh,

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Speaker 1: name me your top your your favorite five w NBA players,

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Speaker 1: And he finds that no one can name the people

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Speaker 1: that are like like, oh, you can't name one? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: So that was that was That was his point. I

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Speaker 1: think everybody can name one with the one now that's

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Speaker 1: in the Russian for having like some for having a

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Speaker 1: little bit anyhow, Oh, Chester Chester is in way over

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Speaker 1: his waiters, What do you mean Chester is going? Chester

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Speaker 1: is opening announcement. You people have our tickets on sale.

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Speaker 1: Yet if you get Chester, it used to be if

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Speaker 1: you wanted to see If I wanted to see Chester,

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Speaker 1: I used to just call him up. I gotta go

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Speaker 1: to ticket Master ticket Master if you want to pay

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Speaker 1: eight dollar service charge. I gotta go to Ticketmaster to

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Speaker 1: see Chester because Chester is opening for Trampled by Turtles

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Speaker 1: in Atlanta. Chester is traveling to Atlanta and opening. If

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Speaker 1: you want to see him, take it up with Ticketmaster.

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Speaker 1: It's gonna be great. Or I can tell you where

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Speaker 1: he lives. I'm even I'm trying to write some some

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Speaker 1: catchy originals to Chester went from being he didn't pick

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Speaker 1: up a guitar? How many years ago, like a little

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Speaker 1: over two years now, dude is skipping in line, skipping

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Speaker 1: in line. Dave thought he had town. Does he tell

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Speaker 1: us a little bit about what your plan is. I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna show. I'm gonna play for to You're going to

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Speaker 1: write original so you're mostly gonna sing covers. I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: sing some covers, Yeah, mostly covers, and then if I

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Speaker 1: feel that my originals are up to par and not

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Speaker 1: too cheesy, I'll play a couple of them. What I

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Speaker 1: found is the Chester right now has about forty five

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Speaker 1: career advisors. Everything. Everyone's like, here's what I do Chester

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Speaker 1: from crypto me who's never been able to play an

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Speaker 1: instrument or sing I'm like, here's here's the lineup, should

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Speaker 1: be Chester. So now we got to figure that out.

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Speaker 1: You play, I think his stage name and everything, like

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Speaker 1: you know, you get like like it should be like Madonna,

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Speaker 1: but it should just be Chester. I thought about it.

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Speaker 1: I thought it should be Chester the Molester, but that

190
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Speaker 1: sets like then you're gonna get weird people in the

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Speaker 1: cross They're like, where's the part about molesting? I want

192
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Speaker 1: my money bag? And I think it should just be

193
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Speaker 1: that he plays as Chester. That's what I told him

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Speaker 1: to put on the poster. I really like your originals. Man,

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Speaker 1: how long? How many? How long are you? How many songs?

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Speaker 1: How long are you to play? It'll probably be like eight, nine,

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Speaker 1: ten songs, which will be like five minutes minutes. Because

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Speaker 1: Chess were speeding through this career so fast. It's like

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Speaker 1: it's like six months from now, he's gonna be He's

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Speaker 1: gonna hotel six months I'll put I'll put I'll put

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Speaker 1: the link to tickets up on my Instagram so you

202
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Speaker 1: can go buy some in Atlanta, Georgia And uh yeah,

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Speaker 1: what's the date? December one? How many people you playing

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Speaker 1: in front of? I think it's like I wonder if

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Speaker 1: I can make it down there December one. We gotta

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Speaker 1: do a thing. You gotta do a thing exactly you ask.

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Speaker 1: We'll go to like gun show the store and be like,

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Speaker 1: I need a bunch of rotten tomatoes and ship. Do

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Speaker 1: you feel like opening up for the meteor podcasts and billings?

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Speaker 1: Is that all you needed to kind of breakthrough? Yes?

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Speaker 1: That was way harder I think than this will be,

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Speaker 1: because people will be in the crowd actually talking and

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Speaker 1: like there to listen to music. The billing show was

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Speaker 1: like here Chester go on stage. Everyone will be quiet,

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Speaker 1: they'll be confused, will be slightly confused, and there'll be

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Speaker 1: a light on you, just shining right on you. And

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Speaker 1: then you've got to sing a song. Yeah, and they're like,

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Speaker 1: what happened? I had the wrong event? The audience They're like,

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Speaker 1: did he forget a verse? Anyways, I'm Tea. I'm super

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Speaker 1: proud of you, man, Well, thank you, thank you. I

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Speaker 1: don't mean you're I don't mean you're in over your waiters.

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Speaker 1: I just mean you're like on a fast track. Dude,

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Speaker 1: I'm not in over my waiters because I can. I

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Speaker 1: just need to play like I'm sitting on my couch

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Speaker 1: maybe with a little more enthusiasm, but you know, just

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Speaker 1: play music. That was some of the best advice I

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Speaker 1: ever got as a writer. Try to image yourself telling.

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Speaker 1: Try to imagine the best version of yourself telling your

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Speaker 1: friend in a bar or something, the best explanation you

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Speaker 1: ever gave to your friend in a bar about something. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's good. Try to like write like that. I can

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Speaker 1: do it. How did TBT find you? Um? He real

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Speaker 1: He follows me on Instagram and Karen Um they're in

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Speaker 1: contact just because he's been on the podcast before and

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Speaker 1: she gave him my number and he text me and

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Speaker 1: Danielle was sitting right there and I was like, this

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Speaker 1: is a weird text. And because I just I just

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Speaker 1: to weight it to both of them. Yeah, I read

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Speaker 1: it out loud, and as I was reading it, Danielle

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Speaker 1: was like in the background, like jumping up and down.

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Speaker 1: She's like, you have to do it. Even though it's

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Speaker 1: like eight days after we have our firstborn son. Your

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Speaker 1: wife's into it. Yeah, she's like, yeah, She's like you

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Speaker 1: you don't. People don't really get opportunities like that in

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Speaker 1: the spot that you're at. Mm hmm. So you gotta

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Speaker 1: do it, Danielle, don't give birth late, you're gonna be

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Speaker 1: completely sleep deprived and hallucinating on stage. Man groupies, he'd

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Speaker 1: be beating him off with his fish pole. But I

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Speaker 1: want to talk about bass fishing with Brandon. Oh that's

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Speaker 1: we're getting. We have on the phone now. Chester told

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Speaker 1: me last night that, Um, Brandon, Uh, tell everybody where

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Speaker 1: you're at what's going on? That the Brandon polluted I

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Speaker 1: was best politic. Brandon Polinck, who you should know because

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Speaker 1: he's been on the show before. Uh, last night was

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Speaker 1: christened crowned Anger of the Year. My on, you're you're right.

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Speaker 1: It's a true story Acrosse, Wisconsin, and you explained it perfectly.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I remember last time I was in studio,

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Speaker 1: we were kind of having to explain the whole tournament

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Speaker 1: bass fishing thing to you, and then you just you

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Speaker 1: put Chester straight and nailed it. With the end of

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Speaker 1: the w n B A comparison. Then you were you

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Speaker 1: were dead nuts on with that one. So so tell me, like,

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Speaker 1: what what is this the culmination of it? What does

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Speaker 1: it mean for your career? Um? Well, this this is

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Speaker 1: my second a O I win. So it puts me

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Speaker 1: in a very small group of guys that have won

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Speaker 1: multiple Uh, I was the twelfth guy to win multiple

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Speaker 1: a wise, and I think the twenty seventh guy to

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Speaker 1: ever win one. Yeah, and like the fifty plus years

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Speaker 1: of bass So they're looking at when they do this,

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Speaker 1: they're looking at the culmination of a of a collection

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Speaker 1: of tournaments, right, Like, it doesn't mean one particular tournament.

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Speaker 1: This means that, like over the entire tour or have

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Speaker 1: you guys put it, that you were above and beyond

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Speaker 1: had the best angler performance out of all the anglers

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Speaker 1: engaged in all the different tournaments. Yeah, exactly. So it's

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Speaker 1: a points race. So we have a hundred anglers that

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Speaker 1: qualify for the Bass Master Lead Series. All those same

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Speaker 1: hundred guys fish throughout the entire year. First place gets

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Speaker 1: a hundred points, second gets, third gets and so forth,

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Speaker 1: and you know, down the board. And so there's an

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Speaker 1: accumulative points race that carries on through the nine events

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Speaker 1: of the year. And we just finished well today, the

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Speaker 1: top ten is actually still fishing today. I just didn't

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Speaker 1: make the top ten, but I had I placed high

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Speaker 1: enough yesterday that nobody could pass me in points today.

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Speaker 1: How many points you got, Honestly, I don't even know.

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Speaker 1: I haven't looked at points in eight years until the

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Speaker 1: end of the year, but I haven't even looked at

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Speaker 1: the points of this year to know how many points

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Speaker 1: I have? Is there a cash prize? Ran Brandon? You

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Speaker 1: that's awesome, man. I had been following you all year,

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Speaker 1: and you know you're doing really well, and you went

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Speaker 1: to Lake Wahi and struggled a little bit. There a

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Speaker 1: bond you can You're putting it way too nice. Chester.

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Speaker 1: You need to go more Chester molester on this one. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I about screwed up my whole entire season. So walk us,

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Speaker 1: walk us through like real quick, like what was been

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Speaker 1: going into y he? Then a while he and then

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Speaker 1: what was in your mind going into lacrosse? Uh? Soon?

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Speaker 1: Looking back now and after everyone telling me like how

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Speaker 1: the points played out and stuff, Because I hadn't looked

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Speaker 1: all season, I didn't know what the points gap was.

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Speaker 1: I knew that there were a couple of guys behind

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Speaker 1: me that we're in the running. But I was leading

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Speaker 1: going into Hawaii, and knowing what I know now, I

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Speaker 1: was running away with it at that time. Like if

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Speaker 1: I would have just cut a check, it would have

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Speaker 1: been nearly impossible for someone to beat me. This week

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Speaker 1: whether I kind of bass or not. And I completely

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Speaker 1: bombed and finished like sixty six that a wahi, and

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Speaker 1: before that, my worst finish of the season had been

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Speaker 1: twenty six. And so it went from being almost nearly

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Speaker 1: impossible to getting getting beat for a y two, making

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Speaker 1: it so that multiple guys had a shot to win it.

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Speaker 1: And you know, a lot of that just came from

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Speaker 1: poor decision making at a wali, right, like riding off

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Speaker 1: sections of the lake and preconceived notions and things like that,

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I'm crushed the walleye, like walley one. Walleye

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Speaker 1: is worth way more than ten large mouth if you're

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Speaker 1: talking about eating them, sure, and way better um, And

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Speaker 1: that I mean incredible walleye fishery, and it's actually a

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Speaker 1: really good small mouth fishery. We just hit it at

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Speaker 1: a really weird time and I made poor decisions. And

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Speaker 1: then I came into lacrosse this week still not knowing

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Speaker 1: the points, but knowing that it was a lot closer

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Speaker 1: by the way everyone was acting. It was a lot

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Speaker 1: closer than what it needed to be, and was able

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Speaker 1: to to pull it out and actually had an incredible

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Speaker 1: day yesterday. Um caught the biggest bag that I caught

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Speaker 1: all week and I was able to seal the deal.

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Speaker 1: Move up and how many how many pounds was yesterday's bag?

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Speaker 1: That's five? How many fishes at five fish? Five? Yeah? Five?

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Speaker 1: So I had fifteen pounds for five yesterday, which on

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Speaker 1: this river right now is pretty dank solid. Like if

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Speaker 1: I would have caught fifteen every day, I would have

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Speaker 1: nearly been leading the event. Dude, I'm gonna go bass

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Speaker 1: fishing with you, so bad man, let's go seeweed taste

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Speaker 1: and bastards. I'm ready. Um uh imagine the tax at

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Speaker 1: hunter Grand pretty aggressively. I'm guessing they're gonna some chump

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Speaker 1: who never paid his student loans and here here, yeah,

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Speaker 1: here's the best part. Wisconsin is a state that they

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Speaker 1: have to pull the taxes out of your check before

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Speaker 1: you even get it. And then so now I'm only

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Speaker 1: getting four grand because Wisconsin is gonna take six and

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Speaker 1: then I gotta go do all the paperwork to try

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Speaker 1: to get some of it back. I don't live you, Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: sometimes you wish you could just go fishing to have

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Speaker 1: to deal with all that money and it. Trust me,

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Speaker 1: I know that's why I go walleye fishing. So you're

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Speaker 1: so you're not even fishing now, but you're still hanging around.

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Speaker 1: Is that? Is that like a polite thing to do

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Speaker 1: is hang around. I actually started doing that like two

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Speaker 1: years ago, and I'm sticking around watching each guy win

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Speaker 1: the event because it to me, it's like a respect

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Speaker 1: thing to the other anglers and somewhat, but it's also

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Speaker 1: a driving force to me, like personally to see a

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Speaker 1: guy win, knowing that like I had equal opportunity to

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Speaker 1: go do that and I couldn't pull it off, Like

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Speaker 1: I didn't make the right decisions that week, and so

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Speaker 1: it's it just motivates me even more for the next week,

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Speaker 1: the week after that, Yeah, I got it. And are

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Speaker 1: you done for the summer now? Oh? Yeah, it's we're switching.

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Speaker 1: I will still fish some in the fall and everything

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Speaker 1: that keep my skills in check, but it's full on

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Speaker 1: hunting season now. And then when you when you got

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Speaker 1: to start back up hardcore fishing again. We'll start tournaments

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Speaker 1: again next February. We'll start showing season and all that

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Speaker 1: stuff traveling in January, but February. We don't have our

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Speaker 1: schedule yet for next year, but it usually it starts

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Speaker 1: around February. Uh, can you can you take a listener

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Speaker 1: question for us? For sure? Guy rolled in um wondering

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Speaker 1: about what happens when you spook a fish. He's talking

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Speaker 1: about how long, like if you like spook a deer,

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Speaker 1: how long it goes before it kind of goes back

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Speaker 1: to normal, right, like how far it was? You know,

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Speaker 1: it's highly variable, right, but you're saying, let's fish and

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Speaker 1: like really fight it and he comes off not not

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Speaker 1: as he stung his lip, but like you had him on.

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Speaker 1: You know, yeah, when does that fishing? When does that

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Speaker 1: fish like back to normal ready to hit again. It's

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Speaker 1: all situational, um, and it's different depending on species. So

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Speaker 1: like a small mouth bass versus a large mouth will

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Speaker 1: be way more aggressive. Like, so your odds of hooking

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Speaker 1: and losing a small mouth and catching it again quickly

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Speaker 1: is much higher than doing it with a large mouth

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Speaker 1: just because they got a bad attitude. So you've you've

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Speaker 1: probably hooked small mouth, broke off and like potentially caught

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Speaker 1: the small mouth with your with your lure still in

390
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Speaker 1: the mouth, especially if they're spawning. Right if they're spawning,

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Speaker 1: like when they seeing or can't see any cast, break

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Speaker 1: wing off your cast back in there, swims over, eats it,

393
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Speaker 1: and you get both your hooks back, and that's like

394
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Speaker 1: breaking him off. Yeah, that's like you catch him. He

395
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Speaker 1: still has the lure stuck in his mouth. He cast

396
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Speaker 1: back out there, he swims over, eats the next one

397
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Speaker 1: and get to like I caught I caught a small

398
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Speaker 1: off one time on Lake Oneida. And when I caught

399
00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:11,280
Speaker 1: him brought him in the boat, he regurgitated a bait

400
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Speaker 1: that he had just stole off my the cast before,

401
00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:17,480
Speaker 1: right like it just sucked the worm off the hook,

402
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Speaker 1: and that was a plastic worm, not even real one.

403
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Speaker 1: He spit up another plastic worm, like a little four

404
00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:30,159
Speaker 1: inch black sinco, a shad and a crowdad all at

405
00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:34,399
Speaker 1: the same time, and was still swimming around eating my baits.

406
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Speaker 1: And but there's been times where like you don't hook them,

407
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Speaker 1: and I'll follow him sometimes for a quarter mile, like

408
00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:44,720
Speaker 1: if they get on a sand flat or something, you

409
00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:46,520
Speaker 1: have just follow him and you'll keep casting at I'm

410
00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:48,960
Speaker 1: keep casting out him. They'll spook from the boat a little,

411
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Speaker 1: or they'll spook from your cast and then you'll hit

412
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Speaker 1: it just right, or they get annoyed enough and they'll

413
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Speaker 1: swim over and buy it got it. I know it's

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Speaker 1: a hard, hard question to answer because it's like so

415
00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:03,800
Speaker 1: like what everything is so highly variable? Right, Yeah, for sure,

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Speaker 1: we'll Congratulations man, thank you. I appreciate it. Yeah, you

417
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Speaker 1: gotta come back on the show. Yeah, I would love to.

418
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Speaker 1: We're gonna make it's not too far a drive, so

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00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:16,080
Speaker 1: we'll make Cret We'll make Creant chase you down and

420
00:25:16,320 --> 00:25:18,600
Speaker 1: get you back up here. It'd be fun. Yeah. They

421
00:25:18,720 --> 00:25:21,000
Speaker 1: still gotta fish your mos pond. We still gotta fish

422
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Speaker 1: my moms like my mom's. Yeah, your breakdowns, Like we

423
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Speaker 1: talked about that a little bit. We'll do it that lake.

424
00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:29,880
Speaker 1: It's not going anywhere. Um, this last summer what turned

425
00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:31,439
Speaker 1: out to not be a good summer for a handful

426
00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:34,560
Speaker 1: of reasons. But uh, but we'll get back on track

427
00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:38,440
Speaker 1: for that. Alright. Congratulations, thanks for jumping on. Yeah, I

428
00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:40,280
Speaker 1: appreciate you. Guys. I'll talk to you seon alright, take

429
00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:45,119
Speaker 1: good luck Alt County. All right, thanks. Oh guy wrote in, uh,

430
00:25:45,359 --> 00:25:49,360
Speaker 1: interesting point. We're talking about leading copper. We're talking about

431
00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:53,000
Speaker 1: when you go to the kind of this ongoing debate

432
00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:57,359
Speaker 1: about you know, lead ammo, copper ammo, all these different

433
00:25:57,400 --> 00:26:02,360
Speaker 1: pros and cons of each. Um uh, we're talking about

434
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:03,960
Speaker 1: how like, like I we did a tour of the

435
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:07,520
Speaker 1: Federal plant, Federal Ammunition Plant, and all the lead Federal

436
00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:12,480
Speaker 1: uses is recycled car batteries. It's all recycled lead, okay,

437
00:26:13,480 --> 00:26:15,520
Speaker 1: and someone rolled in and he's like, the problem with

438
00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:20,879
Speaker 1: you people like you is you say, like, oh, copper, copper, copper,

439
00:26:21,280 --> 00:26:22,680
Speaker 1: but then every time they go to put in a

440
00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:26,520
Speaker 1: copper mind you bitch about it. For instance, I've been

441
00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:30,760
Speaker 1: a long you know I've been I've spent well, I've

442
00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:34,119
Speaker 1: went to my first anti pebble mine event before my

443
00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:37,200
Speaker 1: twelve year old was born. So I've been following in

444
00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:41,520
Speaker 1: in and voicing all the reasons they shouldn't do a

445
00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:45,159
Speaker 1: golden copper mine at the headwaters of Bristol Bay for

446
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:48,000
Speaker 1: thirteen years, fourteen years. But he's like, so, how can

447
00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:50,919
Speaker 1: you reconcile that was saying you'd like to shoot copper ammo,

448
00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:55,080
Speaker 1: or that people should shoot copper ammo. Uh. I felt

449
00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:57,000
Speaker 1: that he a little bit oversimplified what I've said on

450
00:26:57,080 --> 00:27:02,520
Speaker 1: the subject. However, um fella road in to say that

451
00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:07,640
Speaker 1: most at copper and your copper animals recycled. Anyways, thousands

452
00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:11,359
Speaker 1: of tons of copper. This is him talking. Thousands of

453
00:27:11,480 --> 00:27:14,120
Speaker 1: tons of coppered are recycled off job sites every year.

454
00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:17,680
Speaker 1: What most people don't know is it can only be

455
00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:21,159
Speaker 1: refined once to use as a conductor. I did not

456
00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:24,200
Speaker 1: know this copper can be used once as a conductor.

457
00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:29,639
Speaker 1: Once it's melted down again, it's conductive properties are diminished

458
00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:34,880
Speaker 1: and it cannot be used again as wire. So most

459
00:27:34,960 --> 00:27:38,200
Speaker 1: likely the copper that you're using, which doesn't need to

460
00:27:38,240 --> 00:27:40,920
Speaker 1: be conductive copper and copper ammunitions. It would make the

461
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:45,159
Speaker 1: most sense that they're buying it up cheaper as a

462
00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:47,280
Speaker 1: recycled material, then going out and digging it out of

463
00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:49,240
Speaker 1: a hole in the ground. Thinking about that bill. That

464
00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:53,000
Speaker 1: probably tickles your fancy as an engineer. You buying it? Um,

465
00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:56,320
Speaker 1: I did not know that about conduction of copper after

466
00:27:56,960 --> 00:28:00,560
Speaker 1: reuse recycled, But that sounds good more. You're more of

467
00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:03,280
Speaker 1: a broadhead man, you're not a bullet man. Yeah, I'm

468
00:28:03,280 --> 00:28:07,000
Speaker 1: meant to steal more than copper. Yeah, for sure. Uh

469
00:28:07,880 --> 00:28:11,120
Speaker 1: that was interesting. Oh here's one. This is a weird one.

470
00:28:12,680 --> 00:28:17,159
Speaker 1: This dude from Michigan rights in is his girlfriends and

471
00:28:17,640 --> 00:28:21,640
Speaker 1: taking her hunter safety and they're actually advising you. They're

472
00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:26,840
Speaker 1: advising you and hunter safety. Quote when transporting game, be

473
00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:30,560
Speaker 1: sure to keep it covered to avoid offending others. That's

474
00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:34,080
Speaker 1: not like a hunter's safety. That's a that's a sticky one.

475
00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:38,040
Speaker 1: Isn't that illegal? Some places to hide it? Well, don't

476
00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:43,160
Speaker 1: you have to have exposed? I don't know, but I'm

477
00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:46,000
Speaker 1: gonna say no. I think when I was a kid

478
00:28:46,080 --> 00:28:49,600
Speaker 1: in Wisconsin that you had to have your deer where

479
00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:52,920
Speaker 1: you could see it, like what I think, so people

480
00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:57,040
Speaker 1: had them tied onto their cars and visible in there.

481
00:28:57,240 --> 00:28:59,840
Speaker 1: They wanted to know that you had it. You couldn't.

482
00:29:00,000 --> 00:29:02,120
Speaker 1: I think once you got it registered, you had to

483
00:29:02,200 --> 00:29:05,440
Speaker 1: drive the talent register it. And I think that was

484
00:29:05,560 --> 00:29:07,719
Speaker 1: the rule that you had to have it like displayed

485
00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:11,480
Speaker 1: or visible until he was a registered that's you know,

486
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:13,200
Speaker 1: I was. I don't know if I knew the law

487
00:29:13,280 --> 00:29:16,640
Speaker 1: is exactly back then, but that's that And maybe people

488
00:29:16,680 --> 00:29:18,360
Speaker 1: were just showing off their bucks. I don't know. Well,

489
00:29:18,720 --> 00:29:20,080
Speaker 1: it was like a big thing in the old days,

490
00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:22,160
Speaker 1: like whenever he was driving around and like old cars

491
00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:26,240
Speaker 1: they have like strung up on there. But where it

492
00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:31,840
Speaker 1: gets like you know, is it um how to what degree?

493
00:29:32,440 --> 00:29:35,040
Speaker 1: Like if you get a deer. Let's just purely personal

494
00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:37,920
Speaker 1: decision making here. Let's say there's no legal okay, there's

495
00:29:37,960 --> 00:29:41,000
Speaker 1: no legal structure behind if you get a deer, should

496
00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:44,480
Speaker 1: you have the attitude that you've done something bad and

497
00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:48,560
Speaker 1: should hide it lest someone be offended? Or is it

498
00:29:48,720 --> 00:29:51,000
Speaker 1: that you've done something that you're happy about and glad

499
00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:55,440
Speaker 1: about and don't mind displaying it. I see, I see

500
00:29:55,480 --> 00:30:00,280
Speaker 1: both sides of it. I've argued both sides of it. Yeah,

501
00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:02,960
Speaker 1: in Wisconsin, it's like a huge thing. If you shoot

502
00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:06,760
Speaker 1: a nice dear, it's rare you find that dude hiding

503
00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:11,160
Speaker 1: that buck, like tailgates down and he stops at like

504
00:30:12,320 --> 00:30:17,760
Speaker 1: all the deer registration stations and a few bars, and

505
00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:20,560
Speaker 1: he's like, look at my buck. You know. Yeah, I

506
00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:23,200
Speaker 1: don't uh like I have a top around my truck,

507
00:30:23,280 --> 00:30:26,120
Speaker 1: and I would never like do, but not for not

508
00:30:26,240 --> 00:30:28,560
Speaker 1: for fear of offending people, just more of like, you know,

509
00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:32,680
Speaker 1: I don't know, just this is where I would put it,

510
00:30:32,760 --> 00:30:37,680
Speaker 1: I guess. So it's not like a decision for me. Well,

511
00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:39,920
Speaker 1: this fall, you're gonna shoot such a big bull, he's

512
00:30:39,960 --> 00:30:44,520
Speaker 1: not gonna fit in that bed of yours. You're gonna

513
00:30:44,520 --> 00:30:48,760
Speaker 1: have to attach him to the canoe racks. Good, I

514
00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:52,960
Speaker 1: got aloft the top of though ain't gonna fit. Here's

515
00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:55,360
Speaker 1: another one. This guy's one or no that The topic

516
00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:57,640
Speaker 1: is am I the ask? This is a this is

517
00:30:57,680 --> 00:31:00,200
Speaker 1: a this is a sticky one. So noo. A guy

518
00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:05,080
Speaker 1: from Michigan. How do people from Michigan right now? A

519
00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:09,840
Speaker 1: lot of problems in Michigan. He's from Michigan, and he's

520
00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:15,280
Speaker 1: been doing some scouting just right now. Okay, He's been

521
00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:20,200
Speaker 1: cruising the road surrounding the properties where he has permission

522
00:31:20,240 --> 00:31:22,880
Speaker 1: to hunt. So he's got permission to hunt certain properties

523
00:31:22,880 --> 00:31:27,760
Speaker 1: in his area. He's cruising around in the evening, glassing

524
00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:33,680
Speaker 1: out in crop fields. One such property is about three

525
00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:38,320
Speaker 1: acres of mixed egg and small woodlots. The way the

526
00:31:38,360 --> 00:31:40,960
Speaker 1: crops lay out this year. The neighbor's property have some

527
00:31:41,160 --> 00:31:44,440
Speaker 1: soybeans that the bachelor groups of bucks have been hitting hard.

528
00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:48,360
Speaker 1: Two nights this week, I partner my truck on private

529
00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:53,160
Speaker 1: property I have permission on and have been glassing the

530
00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:58,760
Speaker 1: deer in a neighbor's soybeans each night. I'm still quoting here.

531
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:02,880
Speaker 1: Each night the neighbor confronted me and asked me about

532
00:32:02,960 --> 00:32:06,360
Speaker 1: what I was doing. The first night was more cordial,

533
00:32:06,480 --> 00:32:08,600
Speaker 1: and he just inquired about who I was and what

534
00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:11,400
Speaker 1: I was up to. The second evening he was straight

535
00:32:11,480 --> 00:32:14,440
Speaker 1: up confrontational and threatened me with calling the d n

536
00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:20,480
Speaker 1: R and complaining about hunter harassment. M he's kind of

537
00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:24,400
Speaker 1: turning the hunter harassment on the hunter on the bow hunter.

538
00:32:25,080 --> 00:32:27,800
Speaker 1: It's like he's confused, he needs to look up harrassment.

539
00:32:29,480 --> 00:32:32,800
Speaker 1: So no, I think that his angle is that this

540
00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:39,760
Speaker 1: dude is somehow trying to disrupt his upcoming hunt. Okay,

541
00:32:41,680 --> 00:32:45,240
Speaker 1: I'll continue. He says, my long distant glassing is going

542
00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:48,920
Speaker 1: to pressure the deer and ruin his hunting this fall.

543
00:32:49,480 --> 00:32:52,760
Speaker 1: He also went into and here's some value judgment, because

544
00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:55,200
Speaker 1: he says, he went into an egotistical rant about how

545
00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:58,800
Speaker 1: he and his bodies only shoot one bucks and how

546
00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:00,680
Speaker 1: the guys who hunt my pro he should be doing

547
00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:05,080
Speaker 1: the same. So again he points out, I'm set up

548
00:33:05,120 --> 00:33:08,000
Speaker 1: on a private property where a farm lane intersects the

549
00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:10,200
Speaker 1: dirt road. I'm sitting on the tailgate in my truck,

550
00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:13,000
Speaker 1: and I'm glassing across a roadway into a bean field

551
00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:15,840
Speaker 1: where the deer are five hundred two thousand yards away.

552
00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:19,920
Speaker 1: No houses, no other dwellings or structures are visible from

553
00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:23,840
Speaker 1: my spot due to topography and vegetation. Therefore, it shouldn't

554
00:33:23,840 --> 00:33:26,719
Speaker 1: be misconstrued that I'm stalking or looking at people's houses.

555
00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:31,120
Speaker 1: The dirt road is relatively busy, many people drive it

556
00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:33,320
Speaker 1: with cars side by sides and dirt bikes, so he's

557
00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:40,560
Speaker 1: not adding to the activity. M hm, Okay, if you

558
00:33:40,720 --> 00:33:44,360
Speaker 1: are absolutely one dead nuts positive sure that you're not

559
00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:46,560
Speaker 1: sort of like kind of like glancing over at the

560
00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:50,600
Speaker 1: guy's house with with binoculars. I just can't see what

561
00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:53,080
Speaker 1: the issue is. I don't think there is one man.

562
00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:55,640
Speaker 1: I think this is just like classic sort of white

563
00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:58,320
Speaker 1: tail hunter paranoia. What what it really seems to me

564
00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:02,160
Speaker 1: this is Hayden samic ladies and gentle. It really seems

565
00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:04,000
Speaker 1: to me that this guy's main problem is that he

566
00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:07,800
Speaker 1: doesn't have like a hedgerow or something right off the road.

567
00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:09,799
Speaker 1: A lot of times, like white Dale hunters with these

568
00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:12,719
Speaker 1: highly managed properties, they're like, I forget what the grass

569
00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:16,640
Speaker 1: is called. But yeah, like Mark, I think Mark Kenyon

570
00:34:16,680 --> 00:34:19,400
Speaker 1: did it with the back forty. Is he planned that

571
00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:21,880
Speaker 1: he tried or he tried to plant like a screen

572
00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:25,840
Speaker 1: that kind of intersected or blocked the view from the

573
00:34:26,000 --> 00:34:30,000
Speaker 1: road specifically for this purpose. I would also say that

574
00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:32,759
Speaker 1: if this guy came out here, had the conversation with

575
00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:35,000
Speaker 1: this dude and those deer, we're still standing in the

576
00:34:35,040 --> 00:34:39,360
Speaker 1: middle of the field. It's probably not an issue, you know.

577
00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:43,680
Speaker 1: It just it seems like this dude is just weirdly

578
00:34:43,760 --> 00:34:47,719
Speaker 1: protective about his deer. But Northeast Deer Hunting King's deer

579
00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:50,040
Speaker 1: issue is what it is. Yeah, it sounds like the

580
00:34:50,760 --> 00:34:55,800
Speaker 1: guy who was upset also could have handled that confrontation

581
00:34:56,840 --> 00:34:59,719
Speaker 1: a little better if he was actually that worried, rather

582
00:34:59,800 --> 00:35:01,800
Speaker 1: than just straight up calling the d n R. And

583
00:35:02,160 --> 00:35:06,640
Speaker 1: which is kind of ridiculous in my opinion. It's just

584
00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:09,920
Speaker 1: I don't know. You can imagine if the cop did

585
00:35:10,040 --> 00:35:13,719
Speaker 1: come and they both guys laid out their argument, the

586
00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:15,400
Speaker 1: cop would probably feel like the guy that owns the

587
00:35:16,160 --> 00:35:20,640
Speaker 1: field is insane. Yeah, right, he's like homent um. What

588
00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:25,960
Speaker 1: you're upset about. You're mad that he's on his property

589
00:35:26,040 --> 00:35:29,600
Speaker 1: looking over into your property looking at deer. This is

590
00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:31,960
Speaker 1: gonna be very hard to enforce. Look for all the

591
00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:35,160
Speaker 1: motors coming down this road that they don't look, they

592
00:35:35,160 --> 00:35:38,480
Speaker 1: don't look over that a way. Yeah, and our listener

593
00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:42,040
Speaker 1: Brian is being so thoughtful to even you know self

594
00:35:42,120 --> 00:35:46,400
Speaker 1: reflecting right in and ask what what some of you

595
00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:50,000
Speaker 1: might think. So it sounds to me, Brian, that you're

596
00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:52,480
Speaker 1: not an ass. But here's the thing to keep mind.

597
00:35:52,880 --> 00:35:54,800
Speaker 1: Here's the thing to keep in mind too. This is

598
00:35:54,880 --> 00:36:01,239
Speaker 1: my Like you can't take marriage, for instance, there are

599
00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:07,239
Speaker 1: things that your anniversary today, oh for you gradulation, take

600
00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:09,680
Speaker 1: marriage for instance. It might be that there's something that

601
00:36:09,800 --> 00:36:12,520
Speaker 1: drives your spouse nuts and you're like, I still see,

602
00:36:12,560 --> 00:36:16,719
Speaker 1: like why do you care? Right? But then just you

603
00:36:16,760 --> 00:36:21,000
Speaker 1: just stop doing it because right you stop doing it,

604
00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:22,759
Speaker 1: like you don't see what the issue is, but you

605
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:25,000
Speaker 1: just stop doing it because it annoys them. So it

606
00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:28,560
Speaker 1: could be that in the spirit of just trying to

607
00:36:28,640 --> 00:36:31,520
Speaker 1: keep things, Cord will not keep things heated. The he

608
00:36:31,680 --> 00:36:35,239
Speaker 1: just dips into the woods and then sits against a

609
00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:40,719
Speaker 1: tree and looks over into the soybean field or whatever. Right, Like, like,

610
00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:43,640
Speaker 1: maybe the guys irrational, but do you want to have

611
00:36:44,440 --> 00:36:46,600
Speaker 1: is that the relationship you want to have with everybody?

612
00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:49,520
Speaker 1: Like he's un irrational, Perhaps you're not gonna fix it,

613
00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:52,560
Speaker 1: but do you want to like poke the bear all

614
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:57,839
Speaker 1: the time? Yeah, And Brian's is obviously. You know these

615
00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:01,440
Speaker 1: bucks come once they start getting frisky and running around

616
00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:06,080
Speaker 1: thousand yards away. He's just getting a feel for what

617
00:37:06,239 --> 00:37:08,560
Speaker 1: kind of deer are in the area. You know, they

618
00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:14,880
Speaker 1: could easily beyond his property come runt time. So, Kendra,

619
00:37:15,040 --> 00:37:17,080
Speaker 1: you know we're talking about I was talking about a

620
00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:20,960
Speaker 1: friend of mine on a recent episode. Uh, I should say,

621
00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:22,880
Speaker 1: a friend of an acquaintance of mine that got hit

622
00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:25,759
Speaker 1: by a rattlesnake and they took him to his local

623
00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:28,160
Speaker 1: hospital and they didn't have the anti venom, so he

624
00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:29,640
Speaker 1: had to get in a helicopter and go to a

625
00:37:29,719 --> 00:37:32,080
Speaker 1: hospital that had the anti venom, and they charged him

626
00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:35,759
Speaker 1: nine thousand bucks for the helicopter ride. Well, listen to this.

627
00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:40,040
Speaker 1: Steve Kendraw, who's been on the show. He's on a

628
00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:46,040
Speaker 1: bird hunting some bird hunting for him, and the guy,

629
00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:47,600
Speaker 1: a guy on a bird hunting for him, had this

630
00:37:47,719 --> 00:37:53,040
Speaker 1: to say. My mother was bitten by a copper head

631
00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:58,520
Speaker 1: in June. She received the hospital bill in today's mail

632
00:38:00,040 --> 00:38:04,480
Speaker 1: and the anti venom cost one hundred and nineteen thousand

633
00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:09,759
Speaker 1: dollars and nine one hundred nineteen thousand, nine hundred nine

634
00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:15,839
Speaker 1: seven dollars. Oh my gosh, she was bitten in the hand,

635
00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:18,239
Speaker 1: and she told me I sucked the venom out and

636
00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:21,840
Speaker 1: spit it out, then drove herself to the hospital and

637
00:38:21,960 --> 00:38:24,960
Speaker 1: to back himself up. He the receipt is in here,

638
00:38:25,160 --> 00:38:29,839
Speaker 1: like Kendrot sent me the receipt. It's like YadA YadA YadA. Um.

639
00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:34,200
Speaker 1: Room and board at the hospital fifty dollars, the lab

640
00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:40,080
Speaker 1: costs six thirteen, has some kind of diagnostics something or

641
00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:45,200
Speaker 1: another three fifty six bucks. Her emergency room visit three

642
00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:49,680
Speaker 1: thousand one bucks. The pharmacy bill for the anti venom

643
00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:55,799
Speaker 1: one nine. Did insurance cover it? He says, she's got

644
00:38:55,880 --> 00:39:00,320
Speaker 1: good insurance. I'll point out that the Stafford host Bittle

645
00:39:00,360 --> 00:39:05,960
Speaker 1: has a two point seven uh star rating on Google Reviews. Yeah,

646
00:39:06,000 --> 00:39:10,080
Speaker 1: but I don't think people like like, yeah, I guess now,

647
00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:12,560
Speaker 1: and then you leave a hospital like loving the place. Well,

648
00:39:12,640 --> 00:39:15,680
Speaker 1: the other Stafford hospital I can find is actually in England,

649
00:39:16,000 --> 00:39:20,520
Speaker 1: and the Wikipedia page is called the Stafford Hospital scandal. Yeah,

650
00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:23,880
Speaker 1: if that's this not high marks, but this just happening yesterday,

651
00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:27,560
Speaker 1: But no, this is this is here in the good

652
00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:29,600
Speaker 1: old America. And then they got copper heads in England.

653
00:39:30,080 --> 00:39:32,600
Speaker 1: So my dog has been bit by rattlesnake three times now,

654
00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:37,000
Speaker 1: same dog, and it costs like to get the anti

655
00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:39,840
Speaker 1: venom at the vet, so she should have went to

656
00:39:39,880 --> 00:39:42,640
Speaker 1: the vet. Well, but that's the copper head venom might

657
00:39:42,680 --> 00:39:47,480
Speaker 1: be totally different. That's an unlucky dog. You think it'd

658
00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:50,160
Speaker 1: be snake team by now. Yeah, she was bit when

659
00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:52,319
Speaker 1: she was four months old. I didn't think she's gonna

660
00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:53,759
Speaker 1: make at that time, but she did. She went on

661
00:39:53,840 --> 00:39:56,520
Speaker 1: to be a great hunting dog, and then twice last summer,

662
00:39:57,200 --> 00:39:59,640
Speaker 1: but the second time she didn't. She didn't react to it,

663
00:39:59,719 --> 00:40:02,600
Speaker 1: so they thought maybe she's kind of immune to it.

664
00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:05,600
Speaker 1: At this point, where is this happening Not in eastern

665
00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:12,640
Speaker 1: Colorado on Nebraska Colorado border area. Another guy wrote in

666
00:40:12,640 --> 00:40:14,360
Speaker 1: remember how we covered that guy that fell in the

667
00:40:14,680 --> 00:40:18,200
Speaker 1: vault on the house and spent all those hours his

668
00:40:18,280 --> 00:40:20,600
Speaker 1: phone he was he was, I don't know what he's doing.

669
00:40:20,719 --> 00:40:25,600
Speaker 1: Presumably he was defecating and his phone fell into an

670
00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:28,279
Speaker 1: house vault at a fishing access site in Montana. And

671
00:40:28,320 --> 00:40:30,440
Speaker 1: you were insistent he would be a tremendous guest on

672
00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:34,440
Speaker 1: the podcast. So I wanted to get him a show

673
00:40:34,560 --> 00:40:38,359
Speaker 1: to interview him. And I said, like, I just asked him,

674
00:40:38,360 --> 00:40:39,920
Speaker 1: what are you thinking when you stuck down in at

675
00:40:39,920 --> 00:40:41,880
Speaker 1: our house vault? And a guy wrote me inside, I

676
00:40:41,880 --> 00:40:44,319
Speaker 1: can tell you what he wasn't thinking. Where's the guys

677
00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:50,160
Speaker 1: supposed to take a piss around here? But doom boom,

678
00:40:51,040 --> 00:41:03,760
Speaker 1: but don't bump all right? Bill Born and raising Wisconi.

679
00:41:04,280 --> 00:41:08,760
Speaker 1: Where at central it says, Montella, Wisconsin, kind of central

680
00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:11,480
Speaker 1: part of the state, about hour north of Madison. Grew

681
00:41:11,560 --> 00:41:15,279
Speaker 1: up bow hunting? I did, yep. My father grandfather were

682
00:41:15,320 --> 00:41:18,320
Speaker 1: bow hunters. So um, I grew up bow hunting and

683
00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:21,400
Speaker 1: rifle hunting. You can you can do both there. You

684
00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:23,040
Speaker 1: don't have to just choose one or the other like

685
00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:25,120
Speaker 1: you do in Minnesota or some other states. How old

686
00:41:25,160 --> 00:41:28,520
Speaker 1: are you? So set the scene for me. What was

687
00:41:28,560 --> 00:41:31,200
Speaker 1: going on like when you were twelve or whatever? Well?

688
00:41:31,239 --> 00:41:36,520
Speaker 1: Where was the archery equipment? I started with a recurve um.

689
00:41:37,680 --> 00:41:40,120
Speaker 1: You know you were hearing whispers of the compound both

690
00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:43,040
Speaker 1: I saw compounds. I uh. It took me two years

691
00:41:43,120 --> 00:41:45,160
Speaker 1: to save up the money to buy one and start

692
00:41:45,360 --> 00:41:48,279
Speaker 1: start killing deer. But I started with a recurve um.

693
00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:53,960
Speaker 1: That's what my my dad grandfather had used. This was

694
00:41:54,719 --> 00:41:57,839
Speaker 1: Ben Pearson. It was it was, oh, that was all

695
00:41:57,920 --> 00:42:01,120
Speaker 1: My first bows were Ben Pierson bows. Hold on fiber

696
00:42:01,480 --> 00:42:04,040
Speaker 1: shafts or you mean to say limbs, no on his

697
00:42:04,200 --> 00:42:08,160
Speaker 1: arrows aluminum or it was like, no, it's like the

698
00:42:08,160 --> 00:42:10,920
Speaker 1: big thing they have fiberglass arrows, wasn't it. I had

699
00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:14,560
Speaker 1: some kind of composite arrows, but mainly I shot aluminum arrows.

700
00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:16,560
Speaker 1: Wasn't there for a time people I know, like car

701
00:42:16,680 --> 00:42:18,439
Speaker 1: barrels and ship It wasn't like in the early days

702
00:42:18,480 --> 00:42:21,520
Speaker 1: people were messing with fiberglass. Yeah, because remember people getting

703
00:42:21,520 --> 00:42:26,719
Speaker 1: those fiberglass they'd go to pull them fiberglass ship in

704
00:42:26,760 --> 00:42:28,120
Speaker 1: her hands all the time. It looks like you can

705
00:42:28,160 --> 00:42:32,240
Speaker 1: still buy them from three rivers. So anyways, aluminium anyway,

706
00:42:32,239 --> 00:42:38,600
Speaker 1: iluminum and what what were you guys? Broadheads back then thunderheads,

707
00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:41,879
Speaker 1: raise your back fives all that stuff, man, and then

708
00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:45,840
Speaker 1: some Muzzy's price soon after that. Um, a lot of

709
00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:48,359
Speaker 1: a lot of three blade shows point type heads. Um,

710
00:42:49,360 --> 00:42:52,239
Speaker 1: but not like so you're not like, uh like those

711
00:42:52,280 --> 00:42:55,680
Speaker 1: old delta like the steel ones and stuff with I

712
00:42:55,800 --> 00:42:57,880
Speaker 1: think I had some of those from my from my

713
00:42:58,000 --> 00:43:02,080
Speaker 1: dad grandfather, some of the razor heads and things. Um.

714
00:43:03,239 --> 00:43:05,400
Speaker 1: And that's probably is what I started with. But when

715
00:43:05,440 --> 00:43:08,600
Speaker 1: I started, yeah, I think I was twelve when I started.

716
00:43:08,640 --> 00:43:10,040
Speaker 1: I think I was four team when I bought my

717
00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:13,880
Speaker 1: first compound and then started shooting probably thunderheads at that

718
00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:16,879
Speaker 1: point something like that. Were you when you were doing

719
00:43:16,920 --> 00:43:20,480
Speaker 1: that as a kid? Were you, um? Were you like

720
00:43:20,960 --> 00:43:22,880
Speaker 1: mechanically minded at the time? Were you just use what

721
00:43:22,960 --> 00:43:24,840
Speaker 1: people told you to use? Were did you? Were you

722
00:43:24,960 --> 00:43:26,920
Speaker 1: early on thinking like, man, this would be a lot

723
00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:30,040
Speaker 1: better if it was blank. Actually I was just using

724
00:43:30,080 --> 00:43:32,479
Speaker 1: what people told me to use for quite a few years.

725
00:43:32,680 --> 00:43:35,600
Speaker 1: Even even as I became a mechanical engineer, I wasn't

726
00:43:35,640 --> 00:43:38,960
Speaker 1: really applying it to broadheads and our treat that much.

727
00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:42,239
Speaker 1: I mean, I understood the fundamentals, but I wasn't really

728
00:43:42,400 --> 00:43:47,160
Speaker 1: serious about applying it to bow hunting, you know, until

729
00:43:47,640 --> 00:43:50,040
Speaker 1: actually until I had a broadhead fail on an elk

730
00:43:50,120 --> 00:43:54,040
Speaker 1: shoulder blade many years later, that I really decided, Hey,

731
00:43:54,080 --> 00:43:56,880
Speaker 1: I need to apply to my background and science mechanical

732
00:43:56,960 --> 00:44:00,279
Speaker 1: engineering to develop a product that's going to perform better here.

733
00:44:00,800 --> 00:44:03,600
Speaker 1: What was what were you interested in a mechanical engineering like,

734
00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:08,280
Speaker 1: why did you become an engineer? Yeah? I was, you know, physics,

735
00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:11,600
Speaker 1: mathematics were just kind of cam natural to me, and

736
00:44:11,719 --> 00:44:15,960
Speaker 1: I was I was interested in mechanical designing mechanical design

737
00:44:16,080 --> 00:44:21,080
Speaker 1: and applying applying science to solve problems make better products. Um,

738
00:44:22,480 --> 00:44:25,600
Speaker 1: I mean I enjoyed archery and with the compound because

739
00:44:25,600 --> 00:44:28,440
Speaker 1: there was a lot of you know, mechanical engineering going

740
00:44:28,480 --> 00:44:32,080
Speaker 1: on there. I just wasn't I don't feel like I

741
00:44:32,200 --> 00:44:35,919
Speaker 1: was applying it to errow errow flight broadheads and things

742
00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:39,120
Speaker 1: like that to the degree I I am now certainly

743
00:44:39,640 --> 00:44:44,560
Speaker 1: how long you've been at it now, um, about sixteen

744
00:44:44,600 --> 00:44:50,520
Speaker 1: years now, really engineering broadheads. Yeah, I'm gonna turn it

745
00:44:50,560 --> 00:44:53,040
Speaker 1: over to honest for a minute. All right, you're honest.

746
00:44:53,120 --> 00:44:57,239
Speaker 1: Explained to me. Explain to me what is like like

747
00:44:57,960 --> 00:44:59,640
Speaker 1: based on your understanding as a guy that likes to

748
00:44:59,640 --> 00:45:03,040
Speaker 1: read abo stuff like this, what is the arrow? What

749
00:45:03,280 --> 00:45:13,920
Speaker 1: is the arrow? The current like arrow broadhead controversy. I

750
00:45:14,000 --> 00:45:18,239
Speaker 1: don't know if there's a answer, no, because there's so

751
00:45:18,360 --> 00:45:22,160
Speaker 1: many schools of a little nuance schools of thought. In

752
00:45:22,239 --> 00:45:26,440
Speaker 1: the last couple of years, it's been trending more foc

753
00:45:27,680 --> 00:45:31,120
Speaker 1: forward of center, like yeah, there's that, there's the idea

754
00:45:31,280 --> 00:45:35,000
Speaker 1: that heavier arrows are sort of gaining a little bit

755
00:45:35,080 --> 00:45:38,200
Speaker 1: of momentum, I said, I say that, but I also

756
00:45:38,280 --> 00:45:40,560
Speaker 1: wonder if it's not just because of our little circle.

757
00:45:40,800 --> 00:45:42,600
Speaker 1: Like I wonder if you go to actually I don't

758
00:45:42,640 --> 00:45:44,160
Speaker 1: go to a t A. But if I wonder if

759
00:45:44,200 --> 00:45:45,520
Speaker 1: you went to a t A. Do you go to

760
00:45:45,600 --> 00:45:48,800
Speaker 1: a t A? Is it like a talk? Is it

761
00:45:48,960 --> 00:45:51,640
Speaker 1: a thing there? Like? Is also is there like a

762
00:45:52,120 --> 00:45:57,680
Speaker 1: general surge in the definitely speed controversy and O and

763
00:45:57,880 --> 00:46:00,160
Speaker 1: it it continues. I think it's just bad right now

764
00:46:00,239 --> 00:46:04,920
Speaker 1: as it's ever been speed, But it wasn't around and

765
00:46:05,080 --> 00:46:09,360
Speaker 1: like the probably like in oh five when the first

766
00:46:09,719 --> 00:46:14,080
Speaker 1: super fast carbon you know shafts came along and everybody

767
00:46:14,160 --> 00:46:17,160
Speaker 1: was shooting like eighty five grain heads and everybody showed

768
00:46:17,200 --> 00:46:20,560
Speaker 1: up in camp. Where I come from. My perspective is

769
00:46:20,640 --> 00:46:22,879
Speaker 1: that I started guiding el cuents in the year two

770
00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:25,360
Speaker 1: thousand and everybody, for whatever reason, it was like the

771
00:46:25,560 --> 00:46:29,600
Speaker 1: very tail end of still had aluminum shafts and like

772
00:46:29,800 --> 00:46:33,080
Speaker 1: muzzies like what everybody rolled into camp with, and everybody

773
00:46:33,160 --> 00:46:35,920
Speaker 1: just passed shot right through elk. We had like very

774
00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:39,160
Speaker 1: good success with you know shots taken to you know,

775
00:46:39,280 --> 00:46:43,200
Speaker 1: animals found. And then five years later guy would show

776
00:46:43,280 --> 00:46:45,560
Speaker 1: up with rigs where like they'd shoot the target at

777
00:46:45,600 --> 00:46:48,239
Speaker 1: forty yards and you didn't even see the arrow. It

778
00:46:48,239 --> 00:46:49,840
Speaker 1: would just be like stuck in the target all of

779
00:46:49,840 --> 00:46:54,800
Speaker 1: a sudden, and you know, seriously, it's like one of

780
00:46:54,840 --> 00:46:56,759
Speaker 1: those where the guys like throwing the knives and the

781
00:46:56,800 --> 00:47:00,480
Speaker 1: knife just comes out of the board. M And then

782
00:47:00,600 --> 00:47:04,600
Speaker 1: we started seeing you know, very poor penetration. Um. It

783
00:47:04,680 --> 00:47:07,560
Speaker 1: took us a long time and probably well after I

784
00:47:07,640 --> 00:47:10,640
Speaker 1: probably left you know, guiding l cons to realize, you know,

785
00:47:10,800 --> 00:47:12,800
Speaker 1: that that was the root cause of it, that the

786
00:47:13,160 --> 00:47:16,480
Speaker 1: whole system had gotten too light because they liked like

787
00:47:17,280 --> 00:47:19,560
Speaker 1: people liked it because it was fun as ship to

788
00:47:19,640 --> 00:47:22,920
Speaker 1: shoot it. Yeah, and I think it was flat. It

789
00:47:23,040 --> 00:47:24,800
Speaker 1: was like flat, it was fun to shoot at targets,

790
00:47:24,840 --> 00:47:29,160
Speaker 1: flat shooting fast ass arrows. And I think at the time, yeah,

791
00:47:29,280 --> 00:47:32,520
Speaker 1: the the it was it's sold. Probably was the number

792
00:47:32,600 --> 00:47:35,080
Speaker 1: one thing was that it was like new. They came

793
00:47:35,160 --> 00:47:39,120
Speaker 1: up with this the capability to make arrows go really fast,

794
00:47:39,600 --> 00:47:42,080
Speaker 1: and it was like the hot new thing. But I

795
00:47:42,120 --> 00:47:44,720
Speaker 1: don't it hadn't been like tested and it probably worked

796
00:47:44,800 --> 00:47:47,000
Speaker 1: fine on you know white tails and stuff, but it

797
00:47:47,120 --> 00:47:49,840
Speaker 1: just hadn't been proven yet. And it took five or

798
00:47:49,920 --> 00:47:51,759
Speaker 1: ten years. So I guess my question is do you

799
00:47:51,840 --> 00:47:56,080
Speaker 1: feel like back then was there a controversy or people

800
00:47:56,160 --> 00:47:59,360
Speaker 1: talking like was there always like a whole backgrowd that

801
00:47:59,440 --> 00:48:01,719
Speaker 1: was like none, No, no, you guys are I'm telling

802
00:48:01,800 --> 00:48:04,719
Speaker 1: you that light fast stuff is not gonna work. You

803
00:48:04,760 --> 00:48:08,880
Speaker 1: guys should be sticking with heavier arrows. I don't. I

804
00:48:08,920 --> 00:48:11,040
Speaker 1: don't think there was so much. You know, I moved

805
00:48:11,080 --> 00:48:14,960
Speaker 1: to Colorado from Wisconsin started elk hunting um two thousand

806
00:48:15,080 --> 00:48:18,080
Speaker 1: four is when? So we started elk cutting bout the

807
00:48:18,120 --> 00:48:19,800
Speaker 1: same time. Yeah, it's two thousand before I got a

808
00:48:19,800 --> 00:48:21,440
Speaker 1: shot on a on a nice ball. How are you

809
00:48:21,520 --> 00:48:23,080
Speaker 1: doing for the five years before you got a shot

810
00:48:23,320 --> 00:48:25,759
Speaker 1: trying to figure out elk cunting what I was doing? Yeah,

811
00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:27,920
Speaker 1: come on, you don't have a similar story. I know

812
00:48:28,080 --> 00:48:30,200
Speaker 1: you did. I started winging the arrows that coles right

813
00:48:30,280 --> 00:48:33,600
Speaker 1: off the bat. I was losing more than more than

814
00:48:33,800 --> 00:48:35,799
Speaker 1: one or two as well. But yeah, we can get

815
00:48:35,800 --> 00:48:38,080
Speaker 1: into that. I was a successful white tail hunter, and

816
00:48:38,200 --> 00:48:41,200
Speaker 1: everything I knew about white tails was I was steering

817
00:48:41,239 --> 00:48:42,959
Speaker 1: me in the wrong direction for elk and I didn't

818
00:48:42,960 --> 00:48:44,680
Speaker 1: have a lot of you know, mentorship. I just went

819
00:48:44,719 --> 00:48:47,160
Speaker 1: out and tried to figure it out. But UM, so

820
00:48:47,200 --> 00:48:49,319
Speaker 1: I got this shot on a on an elk, hit

821
00:48:49,360 --> 00:48:52,000
Speaker 1: a little forward, hit the shoulder blade really really pretty

822
00:48:52,040 --> 00:48:54,880
Speaker 1: thin part of the scapula with a three blade UM

823
00:48:55,120 --> 00:48:57,879
Speaker 1: you know, cheap chisel point head and did not get

824
00:48:57,960 --> 00:49:01,239
Speaker 1: penetration there. And and I was I had a light

825
00:49:01,320 --> 00:49:03,279
Speaker 1: fast set up at the time, you know, probably a

826
00:49:03,280 --> 00:49:07,040
Speaker 1: little over finder grains UM with a bow I had.

827
00:49:07,160 --> 00:49:09,719
Speaker 1: It wasn't There was not a lot of energy there.

828
00:49:10,120 --> 00:49:14,600
Speaker 1: And that's really what set me off on Okay, and

829
00:49:14,680 --> 00:49:16,320
Speaker 1: I spent five days looking for that out in the

830
00:49:16,360 --> 00:49:19,800
Speaker 1: mountains and um didn't find it. But I got a

831
00:49:19,840 --> 00:49:21,480
Speaker 1: lot of time to think he had been pretty he'd

832
00:49:21,480 --> 00:49:25,320
Speaker 1: been puffed up pretty good. But yeah, I think it

833
00:49:25,400 --> 00:49:29,880
Speaker 1: probably pulled out and live. But yeah, it really bothered

834
00:49:29,920 --> 00:49:31,719
Speaker 1: me that I had become a very you know, high

835
00:49:31,800 --> 00:49:35,960
Speaker 1: level engineer developing products using all the latest and greatest

836
00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:39,839
Speaker 1: tools UM to do world class you know engineering solved

837
00:49:39,880 --> 00:49:43,120
Speaker 1: mechanical problems product development. Really it was kind of the

838
00:49:43,160 --> 00:49:44,880
Speaker 1: go to guy at the companies I worked for to

839
00:49:45,400 --> 00:49:48,120
Speaker 1: solve the hardest problems. And I wasn't applying it to

840
00:49:48,239 --> 00:49:50,319
Speaker 1: something that was super important to me, which is bow

841
00:49:50,400 --> 00:49:53,920
Speaker 1: hunting success. Um. And right there I kind of was committed,

842
00:49:54,000 --> 00:49:57,399
Speaker 1: I'm gonna I'm gonna research this, see what's been done,

843
00:49:57,880 --> 00:50:01,480
Speaker 1: apply engineering. I know something can get through the shoulder

844
00:50:01,480 --> 00:50:03,520
Speaker 1: blade and get through that elk. I just need there

845
00:50:03,560 --> 00:50:06,279
Speaker 1: needs to be some engineering here. Um. But not at

846
00:50:06,320 --> 00:50:09,680
Speaker 1: the time, everything was moving light and fast. I was too,

847
00:50:09,840 --> 00:50:13,480
Speaker 1: and I didn't really hear about anybody saying anything different. Um.

848
00:50:14,400 --> 00:50:16,480
Speaker 1: It was really after I had that failure I started

849
00:50:16,520 --> 00:50:19,120
Speaker 1: digging into the research. I found the Ashbury reports back

850
00:50:19,200 --> 00:50:22,960
Speaker 1: then and read them. You know, went went heavy the

851
00:50:23,080 --> 00:50:25,399
Speaker 1: next year, six hundred plus green arrow in a big

852
00:50:25,480 --> 00:50:29,319
Speaker 1: long broad head. Um. But then I realized that, hey,

853
00:50:29,400 --> 00:50:32,879
Speaker 1: this doesn't fly verygain the trajectory. This thing nos dies

854
00:50:33,360 --> 00:50:36,720
Speaker 1: about forty yards. And at the same time I realized

855
00:50:36,719 --> 00:50:39,480
Speaker 1: that hunting out west for elk and mule deer, man

856
00:50:39,520 --> 00:50:41,279
Speaker 1: I was passing up a lot of elk and mule

857
00:50:41,320 --> 00:50:44,040
Speaker 1: deer at fifty fifty five yards because it was outside

858
00:50:44,080 --> 00:50:46,080
Speaker 1: of my range at that time. So I also felt

859
00:50:46,160 --> 00:50:48,120
Speaker 1: like a matter if I could extend my range, I

860
00:50:48,120 --> 00:50:50,799
Speaker 1: could be a much more effective hunter and make more

861
00:50:51,000 --> 00:50:55,680
Speaker 1: you know, make something out of more opportunities here. So um, anyway,

862
00:50:55,719 --> 00:50:57,960
Speaker 1: that that made me just dig into the science behind

863
00:50:58,080 --> 00:51:02,280
Speaker 1: it and and look at masters to speed and broadhead

864
00:51:02,320 --> 00:51:05,759
Speaker 1: design and all that. Real quick, uh, explain to people

865
00:51:05,800 --> 00:51:07,080
Speaker 1: what a chisel head is. That's why to make sure

866
00:51:07,080 --> 00:51:09,880
Speaker 1: people who aren't totally checked out on the terminology and

867
00:51:09,920 --> 00:51:13,279
Speaker 1: know what you're saying. Yeah, So the the point of

868
00:51:13,719 --> 00:51:17,719
Speaker 1: an arrowhead, you can have a cone point, which kind

869
00:51:17,760 --> 00:51:19,799
Speaker 1: of vision what that is, or a chisel point would

870
00:51:19,800 --> 00:51:21,879
Speaker 1: be if you had like three flats making the point,

871
00:51:22,360 --> 00:51:24,920
Speaker 1: I call that a chisel point. There's versions of that

872
00:51:25,120 --> 00:51:27,960
Speaker 1: that might be dished out and those are called choker points.

873
00:51:28,080 --> 00:51:33,040
Speaker 1: But it's basically um, the front of the ferrell um

874
00:51:33,880 --> 00:51:35,880
Speaker 1: makes a point. It's not really a blade, it's not

875
00:51:36,000 --> 00:51:38,640
Speaker 1: really not gonna shave with it, but it comes to

876
00:51:38,719 --> 00:51:41,880
Speaker 1: a point. And then those typically have some replacement blades

877
00:51:42,360 --> 00:51:45,279
Speaker 1: that are inserted behind it, like the old muzzy thunderhead.

878
00:51:45,800 --> 00:51:47,080
Speaker 1: There's a lot of them that were like that. So

879
00:51:47,160 --> 00:51:49,480
Speaker 1: those three flat surfaces that come to a point, or

880
00:51:49,520 --> 00:51:51,200
Speaker 1: like you said, you'll see on some brands where it's

881
00:51:51,239 --> 00:51:53,160
Speaker 1: dished out a little bit kind of give it more

882
00:51:53,200 --> 00:51:55,000
Speaker 1: of a sharp edge of the chisel point. Right, Those

883
00:51:55,040 --> 00:51:57,719
Speaker 1: cut better than a calm point. For instance, they'll take

884
00:51:57,800 --> 00:52:02,000
Speaker 1: less force to to push through to hide muscles, but

885
00:52:02,080 --> 00:52:06,759
Speaker 1: they're not considered a cut on contact. They're really not in. Really,

886
00:52:06,840 --> 00:52:09,560
Speaker 1: that's the biggest revelation I had in ten years of

887
00:52:09,600 --> 00:52:14,920
Speaker 1: broadhead development is how important sharpness and retension are UM

888
00:52:15,440 --> 00:52:17,919
Speaker 1: and being able to cut. You know, you could take

889
00:52:18,360 --> 00:52:19,920
Speaker 1: you can take a lot of broadheads, put them on

890
00:52:19,960 --> 00:52:21,840
Speaker 1: an arrow, and let's say you got a downed animal.

891
00:52:22,239 --> 00:52:23,960
Speaker 1: You're just gonna try to push in and say the

892
00:52:24,040 --> 00:52:27,120
Speaker 1: hide and muscle, and you can't. You can't do it. Um,

893
00:52:27,280 --> 00:52:29,959
Speaker 1: there's just a points a lot of times not very sharp,

894
00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:31,719
Speaker 1: and it takes a lot of force to push them

895
00:52:32,080 --> 00:52:35,080
Speaker 1: through the hide. Um. Even some three blade kind of

896
00:52:35,120 --> 00:52:39,200
Speaker 1: one piece broadheads. Um, often those aren't that sharp. And

897
00:52:39,239 --> 00:52:41,440
Speaker 1: I didn't realize that either. A lot of broadheads aren't

898
00:52:41,440 --> 00:52:44,160
Speaker 1: really that sharp out of the box. I a lot

899
00:52:44,280 --> 00:52:47,400
Speaker 1: of people don't realize that. A lot of people. No,

900
00:52:47,600 --> 00:52:49,719
Speaker 1: I didn't. I thought, well, it's a broadhead that's got

901
00:52:49,800 --> 00:52:51,399
Speaker 1: blade on it. Of course it's going to be sharp.

902
00:52:51,480 --> 00:52:54,120
Speaker 1: But sure it comes with a warning that says, watch out,

903
00:52:54,160 --> 00:52:57,040
Speaker 1: you're gonna cut cut the hell out of your fingers.

904
00:52:57,200 --> 00:53:01,960
Speaker 1: But yeah, it could, it can be harper I've found out. Yeah,

905
00:53:02,040 --> 00:53:04,000
Speaker 1: that's one of the things UM I was doing is

906
00:53:04,120 --> 00:53:07,840
Speaker 1: measuring the forced push these different broadheads down through hide

907
00:53:07,960 --> 00:53:11,560
Speaker 1: muscle or hide muscle scapula using an insta machine, which

908
00:53:11,680 --> 00:53:14,640
Speaker 1: is you know, I can control a velocity and very

909
00:53:14,719 --> 00:53:16,880
Speaker 1: accurately as a load cell, I can accurately measure the

910
00:53:16,920 --> 00:53:20,080
Speaker 1: force to penetrate. And there's a one to one there.

911
00:53:20,160 --> 00:53:22,640
Speaker 1: If it's if you cut the force and half to penetrate,

912
00:53:22,640 --> 00:53:25,879
Speaker 1: you're gonna go twice as far you know through Back

913
00:53:25,920 --> 00:53:28,239
Speaker 1: backed that up against it again, Yeah, I wish you

914
00:53:28,360 --> 00:53:31,200
Speaker 1: back all the way back up to the machine. Well,

915
00:53:31,239 --> 00:53:33,600
Speaker 1: I was gonna tell them about our our meat tenderness

916
00:53:33,680 --> 00:53:37,080
Speaker 1: testing machine, but I'll save them. It's probably not too

917
00:53:37,600 --> 00:53:39,680
Speaker 1: That's what the first thing I thought. Yeah, so backing

918
00:53:39,760 --> 00:53:43,239
Speaker 1: up to the machine again. Yes, So this machine, it

919
00:53:43,360 --> 00:53:47,000
Speaker 1: has UM basically servo motors driving down ahead and there's

920
00:53:47,040 --> 00:53:49,600
Speaker 1: a load cell in it so it's accurately measuring force.

921
00:53:50,960 --> 00:53:53,600
Speaker 1: And then I can mount I can mount different broadheads

922
00:53:54,120 --> 00:53:57,960
Speaker 1: in there, and I'll have you know, a tray underneath

923
00:53:58,000 --> 00:54:02,160
Speaker 1: it with I've done it with UM, you know, a

924
00:54:02,239 --> 00:54:04,520
Speaker 1: hind quarter with hide on it, for instance, to look

925
00:54:04,560 --> 00:54:07,120
Speaker 1: at the force to push down through hide and muscle.

926
00:54:07,280 --> 00:54:08,920
Speaker 1: Can you just stick a road kill deer on there

927
00:54:08,960 --> 00:54:14,040
Speaker 1: and you can? Basically, yeah, I was light. I've used

928
00:54:14,080 --> 00:54:17,680
Speaker 1: odd Dad before, which is it's kind of similar in size,

929
00:54:17,719 --> 00:54:20,520
Speaker 1: maybe a little thicker bone. Um. I've used moose moose

930
00:54:20,600 --> 00:54:23,560
Speaker 1: hide and moose moose parts as well. But you probably

931
00:54:23,560 --> 00:54:25,400
Speaker 1: gotta be careful because at some point if you just

932
00:54:25,840 --> 00:54:28,040
Speaker 1: like mess up this meat too much, you're gonna get

933
00:54:28,080 --> 00:54:31,239
Speaker 1: a call from the Game of Fish right for want

934
00:54:31,320 --> 00:54:34,240
Speaker 1: and waste. So, like, what's the recipe after you punch

935
00:54:34,440 --> 00:54:41,320
Speaker 1: these arrows through a thousand Yeah, keep it cold and

936
00:54:41,360 --> 00:54:43,600
Speaker 1: then make it into burger when you're done. Yeah, I

937
00:54:43,640 --> 00:54:47,600
Speaker 1: guess burger is the answer. Um, but yeah we can.

938
00:54:48,640 --> 00:54:51,760
Speaker 1: But so, just so I'm clear, it's not like somehow

939
00:54:51,840 --> 00:54:54,600
Speaker 1: and maybe I'm just not understanding force clear enough. But

940
00:54:54,640 --> 00:54:58,319
Speaker 1: when it's pushing through, you can equate that too. How

941
00:54:58,520 --> 00:55:01,080
Speaker 1: fast that arrow had have been going when it hit.

942
00:55:01,440 --> 00:55:05,120
Speaker 1: It's not just like a pressure pushing at the time.

943
00:55:05,239 --> 00:55:07,520
Speaker 1: It's that can be equated to how fast that air

944
00:55:07,680 --> 00:55:11,040
Speaker 1: is moving when it hit. I'm measuring the force it

945
00:55:11,120 --> 00:55:14,200
Speaker 1: takes to go through and it is this a good

946
00:55:14,239 --> 00:55:16,160
Speaker 1: time to get into the Yeah, it's probably a good

947
00:55:16,239 --> 00:55:18,560
Speaker 1: I can see though, I can see that whatever you're

948
00:55:18,600 --> 00:55:20,759
Speaker 1: talking about with whenever you're gonna go down the road

949
00:55:20,920 --> 00:55:23,680
Speaker 1: later in factor in speed and all that ship that

950
00:55:25,440 --> 00:55:29,600
Speaker 1: a reasonable thing to look at would be what does

951
00:55:29,640 --> 00:55:33,440
Speaker 1: it actually take to shove it through there? Like that

952
00:55:33,480 --> 00:55:36,279
Speaker 1: seems like a great first question to ask. Well, I

953
00:55:36,320 --> 00:55:39,000
Speaker 1: think it's what everybody was missing, and I think they're

954
00:55:39,000 --> 00:55:42,600
Speaker 1: still missing it today a lot. There's this mass versus speed,

955
00:55:42,800 --> 00:55:45,759
Speaker 1: but that's only that's part of the equation. The other

956
00:55:45,880 --> 00:55:47,680
Speaker 1: one or if we if we think about it an

957
00:55:47,800 --> 00:55:51,320
Speaker 1: energy and um, yeah, let me draw this, but the

958
00:55:51,520 --> 00:55:54,920
Speaker 1: force is key here. Force. Um. If you can reduce

959
00:55:55,000 --> 00:55:57,120
Speaker 1: the force, you increase the distance. It's kind of one

960
00:55:57,200 --> 00:55:59,520
Speaker 1: to one um. And I think everybody was missing that.

961
00:56:00,000 --> 00:56:02,080
Speaker 1: But he's really looking at when you're saying. When you

962
00:56:02,160 --> 00:56:05,160
Speaker 1: say that, you're talking about reducing the force to penetrate,

963
00:56:05,440 --> 00:56:10,200
Speaker 1: your increasing the distance that you will get after the penetration. Um,

964
00:56:10,520 --> 00:56:14,480
Speaker 1: during the penetration, during penetration, right the initial penetration. I

965
00:56:14,600 --> 00:56:17,560
Speaker 1: guess like, let's say I had the sharpest needle on

966
00:56:17,640 --> 00:56:22,520
Speaker 1: the planet, Okay, and I flick it at you perfect

967
00:56:22,680 --> 00:56:25,120
Speaker 1: like a sharp dart and then I have a real

968
00:56:25,239 --> 00:56:27,719
Speaker 1: dold dart and I flick it at you the same

969
00:56:28,280 --> 00:56:32,360
Speaker 1: which you're gonna would you rather be hit you with? Yeah, obviously,

970
00:56:32,600 --> 00:56:35,120
Speaker 1: because it's gonna go in really easy. Yeah. Or I

971
00:56:35,160 --> 00:56:38,200
Speaker 1: think about cutting a roast. If you've got a really

972
00:56:38,239 --> 00:56:41,640
Speaker 1: sharp knife, minimal force to cut down through that, right,

973
00:56:42,160 --> 00:56:44,440
Speaker 1: take a butter knife. It's going to take a tremendous

974
00:56:44,520 --> 00:56:46,279
Speaker 1: monet force. But I don't think a lot of people

975
00:56:46,320 --> 00:56:48,520
Speaker 1: think about that. You know, for whatever energy you have,

976
00:56:49,440 --> 00:56:54,080
Speaker 1: it's going to create some force over distance, and reducing

977
00:56:54,160 --> 00:56:56,640
Speaker 1: that force to penetrate will give you the max distance

978
00:56:57,160 --> 00:56:59,799
Speaker 1: with whatever your set up is, light or heavy air

979
00:57:00,080 --> 00:57:02,759
Speaker 1: or whatever your boy is. And I think I think

980
00:57:02,840 --> 00:57:06,600
Speaker 1: that's missed a lot, and it's a huge factor when

981
00:57:06,640 --> 00:57:11,760
Speaker 1: you're getting there to everything around uh, broadheads, arrow setups,

982
00:57:11,800 --> 00:57:14,160
Speaker 1: both setups. You're looking at a number of things you

983
00:57:14,239 --> 00:57:16,400
Speaker 1: brought up a bunch of times, like there's physics, right,

984
00:57:17,440 --> 00:57:20,160
Speaker 1: and we've addressed it. Where we had on that we

985
00:57:20,240 --> 00:57:22,439
Speaker 1: had on a guest I don't know, some some months

986
00:57:22,480 --> 00:57:25,320
Speaker 1: ago in an episode called The Archer's Paradox, where we

987
00:57:25,400 --> 00:57:28,880
Speaker 1: had an ophthalmologist who spent many, many years how many

988
00:57:28,960 --> 00:57:33,800
Speaker 1: years at Ashby seven years studying arrow broadhead like bow

989
00:57:34,080 --> 00:57:37,640
Speaker 1: arrow broadhead performance. Okay, and he has these sort of

990
00:57:37,680 --> 00:57:42,240
Speaker 1: like rules and they seem to be right, Like I

991
00:57:42,320 --> 00:57:43,680
Speaker 1: would look at me like, oh, this is a very

992
00:57:43,720 --> 00:57:47,120
Speaker 1: scientific approach, Like it's not anecdotal, it's not well, here's

993
00:57:47,120 --> 00:57:49,840
Speaker 1: what my buddy said. He's like trying to apply numbers

994
00:57:49,920 --> 00:57:55,880
Speaker 1: to it. Okay, Um, how is there how is the

995
00:57:56,040 --> 00:58:01,479
Speaker 1: room for multiple interpretations if that's the case. Yeah, there's

996
00:58:01,480 --> 00:58:04,440
Speaker 1: a there's a lot there. So you know, dr at Ashby, I, um,

997
00:58:04,520 --> 00:58:08,640
Speaker 1: I know, I've talked to him several times. He there's

998
00:58:08,640 --> 00:58:10,880
Speaker 1: a few things there. Um. And and really the reason

999
00:58:12,360 --> 00:58:15,120
Speaker 1: I'm here is too explain some of the some of

1000
00:58:15,200 --> 00:58:17,640
Speaker 1: his points that don't quite agree with with physics and

1001
00:58:17,760 --> 00:58:20,680
Speaker 1: laws of science. This is how you and I became acquaintances.

1002
00:58:21,120 --> 00:58:23,760
Speaker 1: It is is you've sent me a follow up note

1003
00:58:24,000 --> 00:58:27,640
Speaker 1: about some things that want ought to consider right from

1004
00:58:27,680 --> 00:58:30,280
Speaker 1: an engineering standpoint. Yeah, and I thought to come onto

1005
00:58:30,280 --> 00:58:32,000
Speaker 1: the show and explain this. Yeah. And I've talked to

1006
00:58:32,080 --> 00:58:34,960
Speaker 1: dr Ashby and and really we agree about we agree

1007
00:58:35,040 --> 00:58:36,920
Speaker 1: on a lot of things. But um, there's a few

1008
00:58:36,960 --> 00:58:39,880
Speaker 1: things that he says that you know, when and really

1009
00:58:40,360 --> 00:58:42,760
Speaker 1: his his studies were the first thing I found in

1010
00:58:42,840 --> 00:58:45,520
Speaker 1: two thousand four, after I had that broadhead fail and

1011
00:58:45,640 --> 00:58:47,360
Speaker 1: elk shoulder blade, I was really trying to dig into

1012
00:58:47,360 --> 00:58:49,640
Speaker 1: the research. So, um, you know, I've got a lot

1013
00:58:49,680 --> 00:58:51,400
Speaker 1: of respect for the guy in the time he put in,

1014
00:58:52,200 --> 00:58:54,440
Speaker 1: but a lot of his his studies were um with

1015
00:58:54,640 --> 00:59:00,120
Speaker 1: a longbow on cape buffalo or Asian buffalo. And and

1016
00:59:00,280 --> 00:59:02,520
Speaker 1: he's a he's an eye doctor, but he's not an

1017
00:59:02,760 --> 00:59:06,600
Speaker 1: engineer or a scientist in the way his and really

1018
00:59:06,640 --> 00:59:09,480
Speaker 1: there's there's a way you design experiments, you know, it's

1019
00:59:09,600 --> 00:59:12,120
Speaker 1: design of experiments and structuring them in such a way

1020
00:59:12,720 --> 00:59:15,080
Speaker 1: that you make sure the results you get out of

1021
00:59:15,160 --> 00:59:22,000
Speaker 1: them are are valid. Um. And so as you said, uh,

1022
00:59:22,800 --> 00:59:25,280
Speaker 1: I felt it would probably scientific research too. But as

1023
00:59:25,320 --> 00:59:26,840
Speaker 1: I dig more and more into it, there was a

1024
00:59:26,920 --> 00:59:29,360
Speaker 1: lot of you know, I tried this and then I

1025
00:59:29,480 --> 00:59:32,520
Speaker 1: tried this other thing, and there's in the way it's structured,

1026
00:59:32,600 --> 00:59:36,680
Speaker 1: there's not Um, it's difficult, you know, when a number

1027
00:59:36,680 --> 00:59:39,480
Speaker 1: of things change at once, it's difficult to quantify and

1028
00:59:39,520 --> 00:59:41,720
Speaker 1: put numbers to things. So I think there's some issues

1029
00:59:42,440 --> 00:59:45,800
Speaker 1: like that, and there's some also some issues with some

1030
00:59:45,880 --> 00:59:48,080
Speaker 1: things that just go against you know, the laws of physics.

1031
00:59:48,960 --> 00:59:51,600
Speaker 1: That's that's tough. It is. You know, as a as

1032
00:59:51,640 --> 00:59:56,560
Speaker 1: an engineer basically and mechanical engineering is you know, I've

1033
00:59:56,640 --> 00:59:59,280
Speaker 1: learned the science, the physics and material science and then

1034
00:59:59,320 --> 01:00:03,000
Speaker 1: I apply the laws of physics to you know, solve problems,

1035
01:00:03,040 --> 01:00:07,080
Speaker 1: designed better products. So if if somebody is saying something

1036
01:00:07,160 --> 01:00:10,760
Speaker 1: that's going against the laws of physics, there's something wrong there. Um,

1037
01:00:12,240 --> 01:00:16,880
Speaker 1: there's something he didn't quite understand with the testing. Explain

1038
01:00:16,960 --> 01:00:19,560
Speaker 1: how like some of the formulas that go into what

1039
01:00:19,640 --> 01:00:22,840
Speaker 1: happens when you shoot your bow at something. Yeah, So

1040
01:00:23,560 --> 01:00:26,760
Speaker 1: let's talk about conservation of energy first. So your bow

1041
01:00:27,760 --> 01:00:32,120
Speaker 1: has some draw force curve. Um, So as you drop back,

1042
01:00:32,200 --> 01:00:35,640
Speaker 1: there's a you know, there's a force at each distance back,

1043
01:00:36,000 --> 01:00:38,360
Speaker 1: and then as you let go of it, that string

1044
01:00:38,440 --> 01:00:41,520
Speaker 1: applies that force to the arrow and you have a

1045
01:00:41,560 --> 01:00:45,160
Speaker 1: certain amount of energy and that's that's that force times

1046
01:00:45,240 --> 01:00:47,840
Speaker 1: distance or that area under that draw force curve, and

1047
01:00:47,920 --> 01:00:50,800
Speaker 1: that's gonna be constant for the bow. So I mean

1048
01:00:50,920 --> 01:00:53,120
Speaker 1: I want to ask a question about that. Yeah, I

1049
01:00:53,200 --> 01:00:55,400
Speaker 1: get the thing where let's say your bow you pull

1050
01:00:55,440 --> 01:00:58,760
Speaker 1: back and your your bow max is at eighty pounds. Okay, yeah,

1051
01:00:59,360 --> 01:01:07,200
Speaker 1: why does it matter how long you apply that force

1052
01:01:07,320 --> 01:01:10,360
Speaker 1: to the arrow? Meaning if it does it for twelve

1053
01:01:10,440 --> 01:01:15,360
Speaker 1: inches or does it for five yards? So it does

1054
01:01:15,400 --> 01:01:18,200
Speaker 1: it for twelve inches or does it for in or whatever?

1055
01:01:19,400 --> 01:01:21,560
Speaker 1: At a point, like, why does it matter anymore? It's

1056
01:01:21,680 --> 01:01:25,760
Speaker 1: moving it at that speed. Um, well, it gets to

1057
01:01:25,840 --> 01:01:28,320
Speaker 1: be a higher speed if it's applied longer. You know

1058
01:01:28,400 --> 01:01:33,520
Speaker 1: that is that infinite? Yeah? You know? So that's Newton's

1059
01:01:33,520 --> 01:01:37,040
Speaker 1: second law motion is force equals mass times acceleration. So

1060
01:01:38,520 --> 01:01:42,040
Speaker 1: as long as you're applying force here, increasing that acceleration,

1061
01:01:42,760 --> 01:01:48,400
Speaker 1: and it's going to keep going faster. But here's the thing, like, Okay,

1062
01:01:48,480 --> 01:01:50,560
Speaker 1: let's say I'm moving my phone across I'm moving my

1063
01:01:50,600 --> 01:01:53,160
Speaker 1: phone across the table, and I'm pushing it at X speed.

1064
01:01:53,240 --> 01:01:56,160
Speaker 1: So I'm using my arm to push my phone. Now,

1065
01:01:56,200 --> 01:01:59,240
Speaker 1: if I pushed my phone for an inch at a

1066
01:01:59,280 --> 01:02:02,480
Speaker 1: certain speed, right, it's gonna do whatever it does. It

1067
01:02:02,520 --> 01:02:04,720
Speaker 1: will slide away from my finger when I stop. If

1068
01:02:04,760 --> 01:02:06,720
Speaker 1: I pushed my phone at that speed for twelve inches

1069
01:02:06,720 --> 01:02:09,200
Speaker 1: and then stop, it's not like the phone skiters across

1070
01:02:09,320 --> 01:02:14,480
Speaker 1: the table a lot further. No, but you did more work.

1071
01:02:14,600 --> 01:02:17,800
Speaker 1: You didn't put more energy. Yeah, but the phone didn't

1072
01:02:18,800 --> 01:02:23,560
Speaker 1: didn't harness that energy. Well, that d when you let

1073
01:02:23,600 --> 01:02:26,720
Speaker 1: go of it, the fourth stops and the drag drag

1074
01:02:26,800 --> 01:02:30,840
Speaker 1: brings it to a stop. Understand what I'm saying. Yeah, yeah,

1075
01:02:32,040 --> 01:02:34,680
Speaker 1: but I don't know why you don't understand why it's

1076
01:02:34,760 --> 01:02:37,280
Speaker 1: like not working. Let me put it this way. Let's

1077
01:02:37,320 --> 01:02:39,840
Speaker 1: say you're driving down the road. Okay, alright, you're driving

1078
01:02:39,840 --> 01:02:41,840
Speaker 1: down round your car and you're going thirty miles an

1079
01:02:42,440 --> 01:02:44,200
Speaker 1: If you go, if you drive your car for thirty

1080
01:02:44,240 --> 01:02:46,920
Speaker 1: miles an hour, for a mile, and then take your

1081
01:02:46,960 --> 01:02:52,840
Speaker 1: foot off, uh, the accelerator, you're gonna coast whatever distance.

1082
01:02:53,720 --> 01:02:56,720
Speaker 1: If you drive your car for one miles at thirty

1083
01:02:56,760 --> 01:02:59,000
Speaker 1: miles an hour and take your foot off the accelerator,

1084
01:02:59,040 --> 01:03:03,360
Speaker 1: it's not just gonna go farther. It's gonna colost the

1085
01:03:03,400 --> 01:03:06,160
Speaker 1: same distance. Your car doesn't give a ship how long

1086
01:03:06,600 --> 01:03:10,120
Speaker 1: it was pushed at some speed. Yeah. So the difference

1087
01:03:10,200 --> 01:03:13,720
Speaker 1: there is that once it's up, what's you're maintaining a velocity?

1088
01:03:14,520 --> 01:03:18,840
Speaker 1: If there's no acceleration, there's a force balance there. Um,

1089
01:03:20,720 --> 01:03:22,760
Speaker 1: So fource equals mass times acceleration. So it's just the

1090
01:03:22,800 --> 01:03:25,600
Speaker 1: acceleration so example, I would be saying, it's more like

1091
01:03:26,080 --> 01:03:30,320
Speaker 1: you kept your accelerator to the floor for longer, and

1092
01:03:30,400 --> 01:03:33,880
Speaker 1: now you're going faster, you know at the end. Oh yeah,

1093
01:03:33,920 --> 01:03:36,320
Speaker 1: I got So maybe I'm with you. That's a good point.

1094
01:03:36,520 --> 01:03:39,000
Speaker 1: So maybe when you were asking if it's infinite, maybe

1095
01:03:39,880 --> 01:03:43,479
Speaker 1: it's only it's not infinite because it can only once

1096
01:03:43,560 --> 01:03:48,440
Speaker 1: it achieves maximum acceleration. That's when it ends. Right. So

1097
01:03:48,560 --> 01:03:52,320
Speaker 1: that bow that we're drawing back at some point there's

1098
01:03:52,360 --> 01:03:54,800
Speaker 1: a max there's an end to how much it can

1099
01:03:54,840 --> 01:03:57,240
Speaker 1: accelerate the air. So in the case of your bow

1100
01:03:57,640 --> 01:04:01,200
Speaker 1: having a thirty instr length in stet of twenty, you're

1101
01:04:01,200 --> 01:04:03,840
Speaker 1: getting that force applied longer, and you're gonna get a

1102
01:04:03,960 --> 01:04:05,800
Speaker 1: higher speed out of the arrow when it comes off

1103
01:04:05,840 --> 01:04:08,520
Speaker 1: the bow. But it's like a constant acceleration. It's not

1104
01:04:08,720 --> 01:04:13,680
Speaker 1: like it's going it's a constant acceleration. It's not like

1105
01:04:13,800 --> 01:04:17,040
Speaker 1: it's like maxing out like at this point in your release.

1106
01:04:17,160 --> 01:04:20,200
Speaker 1: But there's a point when it has to become redundant, right.

1107
01:04:20,240 --> 01:04:22,360
Speaker 1: But I think in the context of drawing a bow,

1108
01:04:22,440 --> 01:04:25,200
Speaker 1: it just continues to accelerate for that like length of time.

1109
01:04:25,240 --> 01:04:26,880
Speaker 1: I think that's why like a lot of the target

1110
01:04:27,000 --> 01:04:30,200
Speaker 1: archers shoot those huge acts lax bows, and having like

1111
01:04:30,800 --> 01:04:33,760
Speaker 1: your draw length is like such a mechanical advantage, Like

1112
01:04:33,840 --> 01:04:36,760
Speaker 1: you can increase it by three inches and get like

1113
01:04:36,800 --> 01:04:40,160
Speaker 1: an extra twenty per second. The equation is pretty simple

1114
01:04:40,240 --> 01:04:43,919
Speaker 1: that that explains that just conservation of energy. It's force

1115
01:04:44,000 --> 01:04:47,840
Speaker 1: times distance. It's gonna be equal to one half MV squared.

1116
01:04:48,520 --> 01:04:50,680
Speaker 1: So you're both doing this work on the arrow, which

1117
01:04:50,760 --> 01:04:53,919
Speaker 1: is that force times distance, and that's gonna be equal.

1118
01:04:54,120 --> 01:04:56,560
Speaker 1: It's going to be converted to kinetic energy. There's some

1119
01:04:56,640 --> 01:05:00,560
Speaker 1: slight losses in sound and heat, but mainly that's what's happening.

1120
01:05:01,360 --> 01:05:02,720
Speaker 1: I don't want I don't want to be dead horse

1121
01:05:02,760 --> 01:05:06,080
Speaker 1: by like. I will move on understanding that I don't

1122
01:05:06,160 --> 01:05:09,920
Speaker 1: understand it. But here's the thing. When I say infinite,

1123
01:05:09,960 --> 01:05:15,360
Speaker 1: I mean what what what? What do you guys use

1124
01:05:15,480 --> 01:05:17,520
Speaker 1: Let's say, if you have an eighty pound like you

1125
01:05:17,640 --> 01:05:20,400
Speaker 1: you pulling eighty pound bow? Okay, so what what number

1126
01:05:20,440 --> 01:05:23,680
Speaker 1: would you use as an engineer to like describe what

1127
01:05:23,840 --> 01:05:29,640
Speaker 1: that pressure is or what and you got an arrow

1128
01:05:29,720 --> 01:05:36,320
Speaker 1: on there? Now, if some guy had a fifty inch

1129
01:05:36,400 --> 01:05:39,360
Speaker 1: draw length or a sixty inch draw length at some

1130
01:05:39,720 --> 01:05:43,360
Speaker 1: point it seems to me that that arrow is just

1131
01:05:43,440 --> 01:05:46,600
Speaker 1: gonna be going to speed. It's gonna go when it

1132
01:05:46,720 --> 01:05:49,840
Speaker 1: leaves the string, And it doesn't matter if you've if

1133
01:05:49,880 --> 01:05:52,439
Speaker 1: it's a sixty in straw or a thirty in straw.

1134
01:05:52,560 --> 01:05:57,120
Speaker 1: At some point, the arrow is gonna harness whatever it's

1135
01:05:57,120 --> 01:06:04,080
Speaker 1: gonna harness from that speed. No, No, I mean, here's

1136
01:06:04,160 --> 01:06:06,680
Speaker 1: here's the I mean, here's the equation force times distance

1137
01:06:07,040 --> 01:06:11,160
Speaker 1: equals one half mb squared. Okay, so if that distance increases,

1138
01:06:11,920 --> 01:06:14,760
Speaker 1: it will come off with a higher velocity. No, I mean,

1139
01:06:14,840 --> 01:06:21,040
Speaker 1: but it can never go faster than the string, can they? Well,

1140
01:06:21,120 --> 01:06:23,680
Speaker 1: I should ask you if you measured if you took

1141
01:06:23,720 --> 01:06:26,280
Speaker 1: a thing that they used to measure, like someone's fastball,

1142
01:06:27,000 --> 01:06:30,880
Speaker 1: and you measured the movement of the string. Well, you

1143
01:06:30,920 --> 01:06:34,480
Speaker 1: know you're right. I'll tell you what you're right. It's

1144
01:06:34,600 --> 01:06:37,080
Speaker 1: like if you took the bow. I know you're not

1145
01:06:37,120 --> 01:06:38,919
Speaker 1: supposed to because you'll blow your limbs up. But let's

1146
01:06:38,920 --> 01:06:43,960
Speaker 1: say you could shoot your bow with no arrow on it. Right,

1147
01:06:44,640 --> 01:06:46,560
Speaker 1: that string probably moves a hell of a lot faster

1148
01:06:47,400 --> 01:06:51,840
Speaker 1: than it would with an arrow on it. Does I'm

1149
01:06:51,880 --> 01:06:55,440
Speaker 1: ready to move on now. Now I'm with you. Now,

1150
01:06:55,520 --> 01:06:59,280
Speaker 1: I'm with you. And it's because that arrow was slowing

1151
01:06:59,400 --> 01:07:01,640
Speaker 1: that string out it is, and that's actually why you

1152
01:07:01,680 --> 01:07:04,120
Speaker 1: get a little more momentum out of a heavier arrow,

1153
01:07:04,880 --> 01:07:07,480
Speaker 1: because it's being pushed a little slower. I said, talk

1154
01:07:07,520 --> 01:07:09,320
Speaker 1: myself into that one. But I'm I'm my I'm on

1155
01:07:09,440 --> 01:07:17,040
Speaker 1: step now. Okay, yeah, good, So that at least understand

1156
01:07:17,120 --> 01:07:19,880
Speaker 1: that didn't at least understand my question. Yeah, I wasn't

1157
01:07:19,920 --> 01:07:22,160
Speaker 1: thinking about it that it's carrying the lower that arrow

1158
01:07:22,200 --> 01:07:25,640
Speaker 1: and it's it's like, yeah, it's going to start out

1159
01:07:25,720 --> 01:07:29,920
Speaker 1: slower and then just increase as the arrow gets one man.

1160
01:07:39,480 --> 01:07:41,400
Speaker 1: You know, whatever your draw if you can draw along,

1161
01:07:41,520 --> 01:07:43,440
Speaker 1: if your draw force is longer, or you have a

1162
01:07:43,520 --> 01:07:46,400
Speaker 1: higher force, those are both going to increase the energy

1163
01:07:46,520 --> 01:07:48,440
Speaker 1: going to the arrow, you know, kind of one to

1164
01:07:48,520 --> 01:07:51,120
Speaker 1: one and then you have you know, one half mv

1165
01:07:51,240 --> 01:07:54,760
Speaker 1: square is the kinetic energy of the arrow, and then

1166
01:07:54,880 --> 01:07:58,200
Speaker 1: at the target, that kinetic energy is going to be

1167
01:07:58,320 --> 01:08:02,320
Speaker 1: converted back to work on the row. So now that

1168
01:08:02,560 --> 01:08:05,520
Speaker 1: energy is going to apply this force times distance to

1169
01:08:05,680 --> 01:08:10,840
Speaker 1: penetrate you know, through the target. And and this is

1170
01:08:10,880 --> 01:08:13,240
Speaker 1: part of the controversy out there, if it's if the

1171
01:08:13,320 --> 01:08:16,840
Speaker 1: target is safe foam that has a constant force to

1172
01:08:16,880 --> 01:08:21,800
Speaker 1: push through, and it's not velocity dependent, it's um. So

1173
01:08:22,120 --> 01:08:24,519
Speaker 1: for a given bow, it's kind of a constant energy

1174
01:08:24,600 --> 01:08:28,880
Speaker 1: machine or constant kinetic energy machine that whatever arrow weight

1175
01:08:29,000 --> 01:08:31,320
Speaker 1: you shoot out of there, it's getting the same force

1176
01:08:31,360 --> 01:08:34,799
Speaker 1: times distance applied to it. So we'll have very similar

1177
01:08:34,880 --> 01:08:38,280
Speaker 1: kinetic energy of that arrow, no matter if it's for me.

1178
01:08:38,479 --> 01:08:40,479
Speaker 1: For me, I just tested a four and fifty grain

1179
01:08:40,600 --> 01:08:43,840
Speaker 1: arrow and a five and fifty grain arrow and the

1180
01:08:43,920 --> 01:08:46,920
Speaker 1: kinetic energy and I measure the velocity get kinetic energy,

1181
01:08:46,960 --> 01:08:48,720
Speaker 1: and they were within about two percent of each other.

1182
01:08:49,120 --> 01:08:50,840
Speaker 1: That's what I've seen over a lot of people's data

1183
01:08:51,600 --> 01:08:54,160
Speaker 1: is kinetic energy is pretty constant within a few percent

1184
01:08:54,640 --> 01:08:57,320
Speaker 1: from a given bow UM, where a little more mass

1185
01:08:57,360 --> 01:08:59,519
Speaker 1: will make it a little more more efficient, a little

1186
01:08:59,600 --> 01:09:04,280
Speaker 1: less energy losses with sound or friction. But so if

1187
01:09:04,320 --> 01:09:07,639
Speaker 1: the force to penetrate the target is relatively constant, like fall.

1188
01:09:07,800 --> 01:09:13,400
Speaker 1: Did you say energy loss through sound? Yes? Uh yeah,

1189
01:09:13,479 --> 01:09:16,040
Speaker 1: so um, you know sound that you hear will be

1190
01:09:16,080 --> 01:09:18,679
Speaker 1: a little bit of energy loss. So I never thought

1191
01:09:18,880 --> 01:09:23,960
Speaker 1: like that. Yeah, like wind drag or like you know,

1192
01:09:24,000 --> 01:09:28,280
Speaker 1: you're shoot an air in here, that's energy loss. Yeah,

1193
01:09:28,520 --> 01:09:31,479
Speaker 1: but it's not the drag itself. You're saying. The actual

1194
01:09:31,680 --> 01:09:35,640
Speaker 1: sound that it's making is the energy loss. Yeah, that

1195
01:09:35,760 --> 01:09:39,200
Speaker 1: vibration which we pick up a sound, there's energy loss there.

1196
01:09:39,840 --> 01:09:43,520
Speaker 1: There's energy losses due to friction when just whatever surfaces

1197
01:09:43,560 --> 01:09:47,800
Speaker 1: are rubbing against each other. UM. And and that um

1198
01:09:48,520 --> 01:09:50,040
Speaker 1: you know, the veins through the air, that's a friction

1199
01:09:50,120 --> 01:09:52,680
Speaker 1: loss too. And there's a little bit of heat that

1200
01:09:52,760 --> 01:09:54,840
Speaker 1: happens whenever there's friction. There's a small amount of heat,

1201
01:09:54,840 --> 01:09:57,200
Speaker 1: and that's how you lose energy there. But these are

1202
01:09:57,640 --> 01:10:01,120
Speaker 1: there's a small factors. Basically, what's happening that force times distance.

1203
01:10:01,640 --> 01:10:04,439
Speaker 1: We'll give you that kinetic energy and then an impact

1204
01:10:04,840 --> 01:10:10,120
Speaker 1: UM whatever energy you have, it'll equal some force times

1205
01:10:10,200 --> 01:10:13,840
Speaker 1: distance through the target. And a big revelation to me

1206
01:10:14,120 --> 01:10:17,240
Speaker 1: was that if I can reduce that force that takes

1207
01:10:17,320 --> 01:10:20,280
Speaker 1: to penetrate, I get more distance one to one. You

1208
01:10:20,320 --> 01:10:22,360
Speaker 1: can cut that force in half. You can go twice

1209
01:10:22,400 --> 01:10:25,720
Speaker 1: the distance. And probably the biggest revelation I found was

1210
01:10:26,360 --> 01:10:29,120
Speaker 1: just the importance of sharpness and edgey tension and how

1211
01:10:29,240 --> 01:10:32,160
Speaker 1: much you can reduce that force um just by having

1212
01:10:32,840 --> 01:10:37,040
Speaker 1: very sharp, hard edges that are durable enough. UM. But

1213
01:10:37,280 --> 01:10:41,760
Speaker 1: retain that sharpness and slide through. But part of the

1214
01:10:41,800 --> 01:10:46,040
Speaker 1: controversy even more lately is that the people that are

1215
01:10:46,080 --> 01:10:48,600
Speaker 1: onto speed and energy, they'll shoot two arrows in a

1216
01:10:48,680 --> 01:10:51,280
Speaker 1: target out of a bow too, into a phone target

1217
01:10:51,360 --> 01:10:54,280
Speaker 1: and show that these two arrows penetrate the same distance

1218
01:10:54,320 --> 01:10:57,960
Speaker 1: into phone um and they should because they have the

1219
01:10:58,040 --> 01:11:01,080
Speaker 1: same kinetic energy within a couple of per scent, and

1220
01:11:01,160 --> 01:11:03,639
Speaker 1: that energy is going to apply some force times distance

1221
01:11:03,800 --> 01:11:08,479
Speaker 1: and if the forces um not velocity dependent, you know,

1222
01:11:08,640 --> 01:11:12,280
Speaker 1: fairly constant, they'll both go the same distance. So that's

1223
01:11:12,320 --> 01:11:16,840
Speaker 1: kind of been the argument on the light fast people saying, hey,

1224
01:11:16,880 --> 01:11:18,720
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter how heavy your arrow is, it's going

1225
01:11:18,800 --> 01:11:23,040
Speaker 1: the same distance through foam or blissic gael. The problem

1226
01:11:23,120 --> 01:11:25,439
Speaker 1: is it's really target dependent, and when you have an

1227
01:11:25,479 --> 01:11:29,800
Speaker 1: animal there's I believe there's a velocity dependence there. You know,

1228
01:11:29,840 --> 01:11:33,040
Speaker 1: there's been some studies that show that, you know, muscle

1229
01:11:33,080 --> 01:11:36,559
Speaker 1: tissue and organs are visco elastic, so that means they're

1230
01:11:37,600 --> 01:11:40,400
Speaker 1: the forces share dependent. So the faster you're cutting on,

1231
01:11:40,520 --> 01:11:46,360
Speaker 1: the higher the force goes up. So in that case

1232
01:11:46,560 --> 01:11:50,599
Speaker 1: mass mass is a benefit um and you can work

1233
01:11:50,640 --> 01:11:53,560
Speaker 1: through the calculus and the equations on this. But just

1234
01:11:53,680 --> 01:11:56,479
Speaker 1: give you an example. For me, if I shoot my

1235
01:11:57,520 --> 01:12:03,599
Speaker 1: four and fifty grade arrow rain arrow um, I estimate

1236
01:12:03,840 --> 01:12:07,599
Speaker 1: if there's a velocity dependence on force that's um linear.

1237
01:12:07,760 --> 01:12:12,799
Speaker 1: I estimate I'll get about more penetration to say muscle

1238
01:12:13,520 --> 01:12:17,720
Speaker 1: um by having higher mass that's going from four to

1239
01:12:17,800 --> 01:12:21,200
Speaker 1: five fifty. So I believe I believe both sides have

1240
01:12:21,320 --> 01:12:24,080
Speaker 1: it a little bit wrong. I think the the high

1241
01:12:24,160 --> 01:12:26,760
Speaker 1: speed guys that are saying it only kinetic energy is

1242
01:12:26,760 --> 01:12:29,880
Speaker 1: all that matters. I believe there is a mass factor

1243
01:12:29,960 --> 01:12:31,280
Speaker 1: to it, and I believe a lot of people that

1244
01:12:31,360 --> 01:12:34,720
Speaker 1: have have shot heavier arrows have had that experience on

1245
01:12:34,840 --> 01:12:37,000
Speaker 1: animals that yeah, I'm getting a little more penetration here

1246
01:12:37,040 --> 01:12:42,080
Speaker 1: with this higher mass um. So I think that's that's

1247
01:12:42,120 --> 01:12:43,680
Speaker 1: why they have it a bit wrong. But I think

1248
01:12:43,720 --> 01:12:46,599
Speaker 1: also on their side, like dr at ashby Law, those

1249
01:12:46,640 --> 01:12:50,200
Speaker 1: followers say it's all mass um and they make out

1250
01:12:50,280 --> 01:12:52,200
Speaker 1: to the mass is a huge factor, and I don't

1251
01:12:52,240 --> 01:12:54,120
Speaker 1: think it's that big of a factor. I feel like

1252
01:12:54,200 --> 01:12:57,240
Speaker 1: you know, for me that four five fifty grains, I

1253
01:12:57,439 --> 01:12:59,560
Speaker 1: estimate that will be about a ten percent increase in

1254
01:12:59,600 --> 01:13:03,439
Speaker 1: penetrate asan um and that's true. Say muscle tissue like that,

1255
01:13:05,200 --> 01:13:08,559
Speaker 1: would you gain another teen percent going another hundred grains

1256
01:13:08,840 --> 01:13:11,720
Speaker 1: to six fifty? I think so, I think a fifty

1257
01:13:11,800 --> 01:13:16,280
Speaker 1: probably another And it's so it's so target dependent though,

1258
01:13:16,439 --> 01:13:19,160
Speaker 1: really and what are you what are you going through? Um?

1259
01:13:20,680 --> 01:13:25,600
Speaker 1: If you're going through bones, then then I think that

1260
01:13:25,920 --> 01:13:29,920
Speaker 1: momentum and like I said to that, I finally get

1261
01:13:29,920 --> 01:13:32,080
Speaker 1: about tem percent more momentum out of out of that

1262
01:13:32,240 --> 01:13:38,439
Speaker 1: heavier arrow as well. And for bone penetration, it's really

1263
01:13:38,520 --> 01:13:42,320
Speaker 1: that the force times time. So this is Newton's second law.

1264
01:13:42,400 --> 01:13:47,000
Speaker 1: Motion is force equals mass times acceleration, and then acceleration

1265
01:13:47,080 --> 01:13:49,960
Speaker 1: is change of velocity over time. So if you just

1266
01:13:50,720 --> 01:13:52,840
Speaker 1: move time over to the side, you get forced times

1267
01:13:52,920 --> 01:13:58,640
Speaker 1: time equals mass times change in velocity or change the

1268
01:13:58,680 --> 01:14:02,320
Speaker 1: momentum was force times time And you're moving to the

1269
01:14:02,400 --> 01:14:05,240
Speaker 1: other side now because we're slowing down as it's going

1270
01:14:05,479 --> 01:14:08,360
Speaker 1: through the animal. Well, it's it's because I want to

1271
01:14:08,400 --> 01:14:13,680
Speaker 1: isolate momentum and explain how momentum helps you. So momentum

1272
01:14:15,200 --> 01:14:19,000
Speaker 1: that impact will apply some force impulse this force times

1273
01:14:19,080 --> 01:14:23,679
Speaker 1: time and I've done a lot of product shock testing

1274
01:14:23,760 --> 01:14:26,760
Speaker 1: in the past. Will we'll design develop a product and

1275
01:14:26,840 --> 01:14:30,160
Speaker 1: then we'll shock it at higher and higher levels to

1276
01:14:30,280 --> 01:14:32,800
Speaker 1: see when it breaks. And what I've learned from that

1277
01:14:33,240 --> 01:14:39,280
Speaker 1: is there's just a damaged boundary curve um theory. But

1278
01:14:39,520 --> 01:14:43,360
Speaker 1: it's you need. You need to apply a force for

1279
01:14:43,400 --> 01:14:45,719
Speaker 1: an amount of time. You can have an infinitely high force.

1280
01:14:45,840 --> 01:14:49,519
Speaker 1: If it's too short and duration, it doesn't break anything. Right,

1281
01:14:50,040 --> 01:14:52,880
Speaker 1: Like I could apply a thousand pounds to your nose

1282
01:14:53,000 --> 01:14:55,559
Speaker 1: for a millisecond and and it wouldn't hurt at all.

1283
01:14:55,640 --> 01:14:57,720
Speaker 1: But if I applied it for a second, you know,

1284
01:14:57,840 --> 01:15:01,240
Speaker 1: it would break your nose. So a lot of things

1285
01:15:01,280 --> 01:15:03,240
Speaker 1: act like that. They need a given force for a

1286
01:15:03,280 --> 01:15:08,599
Speaker 1: given amount of time to break um. So momentum equals

1287
01:15:08,640 --> 01:15:12,160
Speaker 1: force times time. Having that temper cent higher momentum might

1288
01:15:12,280 --> 01:15:17,280
Speaker 1: just get you over that threshold to break. And it's

1289
01:15:17,280 --> 01:15:20,200
Speaker 1: another thing with with um dr Ashby. He said, there's

1290
01:15:20,240 --> 01:15:26,080
Speaker 1: a sixty grain threshold. Velocity doesn't matter, it's just mass,

1291
01:15:26,840 --> 01:15:29,800
Speaker 1: and a lot of people have just run with that,

1292
01:15:30,040 --> 01:15:32,760
Speaker 1: and there's a few there's a couple of things that

1293
01:15:33,400 --> 01:15:35,280
Speaker 1: are kind of wrong with that. For one, you need

1294
01:15:35,880 --> 01:15:39,000
Speaker 1: you need velocity because it's really that mass times velocity

1295
01:15:39,520 --> 01:15:42,240
Speaker 1: that gives you this impulse, force, force times time it's

1296
01:15:42,280 --> 01:15:46,240
Speaker 1: gonna be able to break something, um something, And one

1297
01:15:46,240 --> 01:15:47,680
Speaker 1: of the things we're talking about here is something being

1298
01:15:47,760 --> 01:15:51,560
Speaker 1: like through a bone, like right, well, there has to

1299
01:15:51,600 --> 01:15:54,439
Speaker 1: be some minimum velocity, right, because it just won't work

1300
01:15:54,520 --> 01:15:56,600
Speaker 1: at zero velocity. Right. And I've said that over the

1301
01:15:56,600 --> 01:15:58,200
Speaker 1: phone to theme, like if I throw that arrow at

1302
01:15:58,240 --> 01:16:00,280
Speaker 1: a cape buffalo, it's not going through that bone, right,

1303
01:16:00,400 --> 01:16:04,920
Speaker 1: So it's not just mass um and uh, And I

1304
01:16:04,960 --> 01:16:09,519
Speaker 1: think he understands that, but I think he, you know,

1305
01:16:09,640 --> 01:16:12,559
Speaker 1: his his world is ah is a long bow shooting

1306
01:16:12,600 --> 01:16:15,599
Speaker 1: fifteen to twenty yards at a cape buffalo. And that's

1307
01:16:15,640 --> 01:16:17,840
Speaker 1: really what he was after, you know, getting through that

1308
01:16:18,000 --> 01:16:21,280
Speaker 1: high in that um like a three quarter in thick

1309
01:16:21,520 --> 01:16:24,880
Speaker 1: flat rib bone. And that's what all his work work

1310
01:16:25,000 --> 01:16:28,160
Speaker 1: is around. And it's gonna be so target and dependent.

1311
01:16:28,280 --> 01:16:31,200
Speaker 1: You know what, what what momentum or what force impulse

1312
01:16:31,240 --> 01:16:33,640
Speaker 1: does it take to break the bone depends on what

1313
01:16:33,760 --> 01:16:36,519
Speaker 1: the bone is, right. I mean that that should be

1314
01:16:36,600 --> 01:16:40,519
Speaker 1: obvious to people that a scapula is thinner than maybe

1315
01:16:40,560 --> 01:16:43,400
Speaker 1: lower on the shoulder bone to a leg bone. And

1316
01:16:44,800 --> 01:16:46,320
Speaker 1: so that's one side of it. It depends on what

1317
01:16:46,400 --> 01:16:48,080
Speaker 1: the bone is. The other thing is that depends on

1318
01:16:48,160 --> 01:16:50,400
Speaker 1: what you're trying to drive through the bone. If you're

1319
01:16:50,439 --> 01:16:54,080
Speaker 1: trying to drive um, you know, aluminum ferrel, chisel point

1320
01:16:54,840 --> 01:16:59,559
Speaker 1: head and very thin blades, it could be that it's

1321
01:16:59,560 --> 01:17:02,160
Speaker 1: gonna use that force, you know, that force to crush

1322
01:17:02,240 --> 01:17:04,400
Speaker 1: that is less than the force to pop that bone.

1323
01:17:04,439 --> 01:17:08,240
Speaker 1: And that's what happens a lot there. Um. So that

1324
01:17:08,479 --> 01:17:11,360
Speaker 1: what you mean the force that before it pops the bone,

1325
01:17:11,360 --> 01:17:14,200
Speaker 1: it will break the blades. Yes, yeah, it'll break the

1326
01:17:14,240 --> 01:17:16,880
Speaker 1: blade or bend over the ferrel or things like that.

1327
01:17:18,240 --> 01:17:20,519
Speaker 1: So you know, dr Ashby, I think his number one

1328
01:17:20,600 --> 01:17:25,200
Speaker 1: thing was structural integrity of the broadhead and the components.

1329
01:17:25,880 --> 01:17:29,200
Speaker 1: So yes, so I think that, I mean we agree there.

1330
01:17:29,479 --> 01:17:33,640
Speaker 1: And and that's a lot of what was wrong with

1331
01:17:33,760 --> 01:17:36,160
Speaker 1: the products I had been using is there was no

1332
01:17:36,200 --> 01:17:37,720
Speaker 1: way they're going to make it through bone. You know,

1333
01:17:37,800 --> 01:17:40,160
Speaker 1: they crushed when they go through bone. And and that's

1334
01:17:40,160 --> 01:17:41,720
Speaker 1: a lot of the initial work I did. As I

1335
01:17:41,760 --> 01:17:46,240
Speaker 1: spent about five years going through different steels, different heat

1336
01:17:46,280 --> 01:17:50,000
Speaker 1: treat processes, ended up settling on a two tool steel,

1337
01:17:50,000 --> 01:17:52,679
Speaker 1: which is used to cut metal and metal stamping dies

1338
01:17:52,720 --> 01:17:55,479
Speaker 1: because it can be very hard, sharp, and it has

1339
01:17:55,560 --> 01:17:58,080
Speaker 1: the toughness, you know, to cut metals or to cut

1340
01:17:58,120 --> 01:18:02,400
Speaker 1: through bone and and and not get crushed because if

1341
01:18:02,439 --> 01:18:04,759
Speaker 1: things get crushed or bend or break, it just sucks

1342
01:18:04,840 --> 01:18:07,880
Speaker 1: up all the energy. Um, So we don't totally agree there.

1343
01:18:07,920 --> 01:18:10,160
Speaker 1: You need something durable enough to get through the bone.

1344
01:18:11,000 --> 01:18:15,519
Speaker 1: But then I don't think grain is is a great number.

1345
01:18:15,560 --> 01:18:17,519
Speaker 1: It didn't work for me being an out west bow hunter.

1346
01:18:17,600 --> 01:18:19,320
Speaker 1: It was too heavy. I was getting a big nose

1347
01:18:19,400 --> 01:18:23,200
Speaker 1: dive to my arrows when that arrow dives off. You uh,

1348
01:18:26,040 --> 01:18:27,680
Speaker 1: like if you're shooting a real heavy arrow and it

1349
01:18:27,760 --> 01:18:30,000
Speaker 1: dies off and you're talking about the nose dive right

1350
01:18:30,800 --> 01:18:34,960
Speaker 1: as it drops some velocity. Um, obviously it going slower

1351
01:18:35,040 --> 01:18:41,080
Speaker 1: isn't good. But does that does that changed angle matter? Yeah,

1352
01:18:41,120 --> 01:18:46,360
Speaker 1: there is a change of angle, and you know, so

1353
01:18:46,479 --> 01:18:49,680
Speaker 1: it doesn't stay necessarily like it starts to lose it's horizontal,

1354
01:18:50,600 --> 01:18:53,680
Speaker 1: right yeah? Or does it? Am I wrong? No, you're right.

1355
01:18:53,720 --> 01:18:56,360
Speaker 1: I've shot animals a long distance and the entrance to

1356
01:18:56,360 --> 01:18:57,800
Speaker 1: the next of holes looked like I shot it out

1357
01:18:57,800 --> 01:18:59,800
Speaker 1: of a tree stand. So there's a lot of drop.

1358
01:19:00,000 --> 01:19:02,280
Speaker 1: And you also need to know your yardage very accurately

1359
01:19:02,320 --> 01:19:06,120
Speaker 1: then too, because that's going to ask when when you

1360
01:19:06,240 --> 01:19:09,360
Speaker 1: see or at what distance you see the nose dives starting.

1361
01:19:09,640 --> 01:19:11,879
Speaker 1: I mean, I know that that's dependent on many factors,

1362
01:19:12,000 --> 01:19:14,400
Speaker 1: but yeah, you know, at that time with the bow

1363
01:19:14,520 --> 01:19:16,240
Speaker 1: I was using, and it both have become a lot

1364
01:19:16,280 --> 01:19:18,400
Speaker 1: more efficient, but at that time, trying to shoot a

1365
01:19:18,439 --> 01:19:20,920
Speaker 1: six de green arrow out of my seventy pombo and

1366
01:19:21,080 --> 01:19:23,800
Speaker 1: energy it had, I was really seeing a dive off

1367
01:19:23,840 --> 01:19:27,800
Speaker 1: a lot at fifty yards, okay, and that's that's going

1368
01:19:27,840 --> 01:19:30,360
Speaker 1: to vary by bo And well that's like one of

1369
01:19:30,400 --> 01:19:33,400
Speaker 1: the things that like I shoot a shoot a rover

1370
01:19:33,600 --> 01:19:36,040
Speaker 1: site and I got one pin like set at forty

1371
01:19:36,120 --> 01:19:38,760
Speaker 1: that's like adjustable one pin set at six it's adjustable's

1372
01:19:39,439 --> 01:19:42,320
Speaker 1: two pin system. And the reason I got that was

1373
01:19:42,400 --> 01:19:46,479
Speaker 1: specifically because like I felt comfortable pin gapping out to

1374
01:19:46,640 --> 01:19:50,120
Speaker 1: about you know, forty yards, you know, so anything between

1375
01:19:50,200 --> 01:19:53,400
Speaker 1: thirty and like forty, but past that I noticed there

1376
01:19:53,479 --> 01:19:56,880
Speaker 1: was such a significant drop that even and I'm not

1377
01:19:56,920 --> 01:19:58,800
Speaker 1: shooting a particularly heavy air. I mean I'm shooting like

1378
01:19:58,920 --> 01:20:00,880
Speaker 1: on like the heavier spec from my setups like five

1379
01:20:01,280 --> 01:20:05,519
Speaker 1: and fifteen grains, but even that past forty yards, I mean,

1380
01:20:05,560 --> 01:20:08,519
Speaker 1: like the differential is huge. If you think something that

1381
01:20:09,080 --> 01:20:12,280
Speaker 1: forty four and you think it's walking broadside, but it's

1382
01:20:12,320 --> 01:20:14,960
Speaker 1: actually kind of like walking away from you at a

1383
01:20:15,160 --> 01:20:17,920
Speaker 1: very slight angle. And it's at forty seven, You're like,

1384
01:20:18,000 --> 01:20:20,960
Speaker 1: point impact is going to be like four inches different

1385
01:20:21,040 --> 01:20:24,320
Speaker 1: sometimes right, and and like you, I like to if

1386
01:20:24,360 --> 01:20:27,280
Speaker 1: I see it, say an elk under fifty yards, I

1387
01:20:27,400 --> 01:20:29,080
Speaker 1: just want to draw and shoot it. I've had too

1388
01:20:29,120 --> 01:20:31,600
Speaker 1: many times when I decided to go and range and

1389
01:20:31,680 --> 01:20:34,120
Speaker 1: it was some other animals saw me and they took

1390
01:20:34,160 --> 01:20:36,880
Speaker 1: off running, and I kicked myself, like why didn't I

1391
01:20:36,920 --> 01:20:38,800
Speaker 1: just draw and shoot. I knew it was forty or

1392
01:20:38,880 --> 01:20:41,800
Speaker 1: forty four, And so yeah, if it's under fifty, I

1393
01:20:41,920 --> 01:20:44,920
Speaker 1: like the eyeball range it take the shot because you

1394
01:20:44,920 --> 01:20:47,240
Speaker 1: don't know what's going to happen if you wait longer. Um.

1395
01:20:47,680 --> 01:20:48,880
Speaker 1: So that's part of the reason I wanted to have

1396
01:20:48,960 --> 01:20:52,480
Speaker 1: a flatter trajectory. Yeah. Well, and then also it like eliminates,

1397
01:20:53,120 --> 01:20:55,960
Speaker 1: Like when I think about like an accurate arrow or

1398
01:20:56,040 --> 01:20:58,680
Speaker 1: like an arrow that will kill something in particular, I

1399
01:20:58,800 --> 01:21:03,040
Speaker 1: think about that shot is like a percentage. Um. If

1400
01:21:05,960 --> 01:21:08,679
Speaker 1: it's like I would rather know that I can put

1401
01:21:08,760 --> 01:21:11,880
Speaker 1: the arrow when I where I mean to inside a

1402
01:21:11,920 --> 01:21:16,200
Speaker 1: fifty yards then have the insurance that comes from being like, well,

1403
01:21:16,720 --> 01:21:19,360
Speaker 1: I can blow through that things scalpular scapula if I

1404
01:21:19,479 --> 01:21:22,439
Speaker 1: like make a bad shot. And so it's like, what's

1405
01:21:22,479 --> 01:21:24,640
Speaker 1: the trade off there. It's like, I get the insurance

1406
01:21:24,760 --> 01:21:28,640
Speaker 1: if it's like right or left, I guess, but I

1407
01:21:29,479 --> 01:21:32,640
Speaker 1: I put myself into disadvantage because if my range is

1408
01:21:32,680 --> 01:21:34,280
Speaker 1: even a little bit off, like it's going to be.

1409
01:21:35,000 --> 01:21:37,280
Speaker 1: You know, what I'm saying does makes sense. That's totally

1410
01:21:37,360 --> 01:21:39,880
Speaker 1: the tradeoff. And that's what I tell people that ask for,

1411
01:21:40,479 --> 01:21:43,960
Speaker 1: you know, how do I increase my penetration? And I

1412
01:21:44,000 --> 01:21:46,760
Speaker 1: tell them they'll shoot. Shoot the heaviest mass you can

1413
01:21:47,320 --> 01:21:49,920
Speaker 1: for the trajectory that you want, or within the trajectory

1414
01:21:49,960 --> 01:21:53,599
Speaker 1: that you want, because increasing mass will give you those

1415
01:21:53,720 --> 01:21:57,519
Speaker 1: increases in penetration. They're not they're not huge, but you know,

1416
01:21:57,600 --> 01:22:01,400
Speaker 1: like I said, it's maybe hundred grain roughly or give

1417
01:22:01,439 --> 01:22:03,759
Speaker 1: you a ten percent better chance of breaking that bone.

1418
01:22:04,160 --> 01:22:07,160
Speaker 1: Say so, so there is an improvement to mass, but

1419
01:22:07,240 --> 01:22:10,920
Speaker 1: it's dropping off your trajectory. So that's the tradeoff. Really,

1420
01:22:11,240 --> 01:22:13,560
Speaker 1: and I think, really, I mean I think Ashby, like

1421
01:22:13,960 --> 01:22:15,680
Speaker 1: he kind of was saying the same thing, was like

1422
01:22:15,920 --> 01:22:19,200
Speaker 1: six fifty was the best that worked for him. But

1423
01:22:19,280 --> 01:22:21,959
Speaker 1: I think he says that you should shoot the heaviest

1424
01:22:22,080 --> 01:22:26,320
Speaker 1: era you can within the accept the trajectory that's acceptable

1425
01:22:26,439 --> 01:22:30,320
Speaker 1: to you personally. Right. Yeah, he's been he's been saying that.

1426
01:22:30,560 --> 01:22:33,720
Speaker 1: I've seen that more lately and I've changes tune a

1427
01:22:33,760 --> 01:22:36,400
Speaker 1: little bit. I think maybe, I mean, I've been saying

1428
01:22:36,439 --> 01:22:38,400
Speaker 1: that to him for a couple of years, but I don't.

1429
01:22:38,479 --> 01:22:40,040
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't want to say influence to that.

1430
01:22:40,160 --> 01:22:42,600
Speaker 1: I want to bring up to your point, this is

1431
01:22:42,680 --> 01:22:44,360
Speaker 1: what Mark. I would like to take credit for this.

1432
01:22:44,479 --> 01:22:46,320
Speaker 1: But Mark Boordman brought up this because we were having

1433
01:22:46,360 --> 01:22:51,320
Speaker 1: this conversation Mark Warman from Vortex everybody over there. He's saying,

1434
01:22:51,320 --> 01:22:53,160
Speaker 1: you know, I'd like a flat shoot arrow because like

1435
01:22:53,240 --> 01:22:55,599
Speaker 1: the last two or three white tail box that he shy,

1436
01:22:55,600 --> 01:22:57,559
Speaker 1: I've been like plus forty and maybe even right at

1437
01:22:57,600 --> 01:23:00,719
Speaker 1: fifty yards, you know, which is pretty far shot, small target,

1438
01:23:00,800 --> 01:23:03,680
Speaker 1: you know, on a on a white tail and uh,

1439
01:23:03,920 --> 01:23:05,840
Speaker 1: but we were kind of talking about what a heavier

1440
01:23:06,080 --> 01:23:09,280
Speaker 1: arrow can do, like if you happen to miss, and

1441
01:23:09,439 --> 01:23:11,639
Speaker 1: he says to me, is you know, but I didn't

1442
01:23:11,680 --> 01:23:15,400
Speaker 1: think about all the shots that I've passed up that

1443
01:23:15,520 --> 01:23:19,280
Speaker 1: were close because I didn't have the proper orientation to

1444
01:23:19,400 --> 01:23:22,840
Speaker 1: the animal, you know, whether he was quartering too like

1445
01:23:22,960 --> 01:23:24,400
Speaker 1: he could have just been bone he could have just

1446
01:23:24,479 --> 01:23:27,880
Speaker 1: been bone busting the whole time. And exactly that's one

1447
01:23:27,880 --> 01:23:30,080
Speaker 1: of the biggest factors I think for you know, shooting

1448
01:23:30,600 --> 01:23:33,880
Speaker 1: ironwell broadhead and shooting a little heavier arrow is on

1449
01:23:33,920 --> 01:23:36,479
Speaker 1: a deer sized animal, it just opens up all these

1450
01:23:36,520 --> 01:23:39,519
Speaker 1: other shot angles. You know, the last last couple of

1451
01:23:39,560 --> 01:23:42,400
Speaker 1: meal deer I've shot, we're actually quartering on coming into

1452
01:23:42,439 --> 01:23:45,280
Speaker 1: decoys and a little bit of a downward shot. I

1453
01:23:45,360 --> 01:23:47,400
Speaker 1: knew what the I know the bone structure, well, I

1454
01:23:47,479 --> 01:23:49,920
Speaker 1: knew it was going to be thin scapula and put

1455
01:23:50,000 --> 01:23:52,160
Speaker 1: it right through there and um got a complete pass

1456
01:23:52,200 --> 01:23:54,519
Speaker 1: through into the ground. But I was just totally confident

1457
01:23:54,600 --> 01:23:57,680
Speaker 1: that I can make that shot with this broadhead, this arrow. Um,

1458
01:23:57,760 --> 01:24:00,000
Speaker 1: so I did think it does opens up shot opportunit

1459
01:24:00,000 --> 01:24:03,840
Speaker 1: introduce you know, I started shooting your broadheads because Phelps does,

1460
01:24:04,600 --> 01:24:06,920
Speaker 1: and Phelps has real strong opinions about it, and he

1461
01:24:06,960 --> 01:24:10,519
Speaker 1: taught me into shooting them, and then uh, it's you know,

1462
01:24:10,560 --> 01:24:13,120
Speaker 1: it's a little bit tricky, but he talked me into

1463
01:24:13,280 --> 01:24:15,000
Speaker 1: him and Yanni. He kind of taught me into like

1464
01:24:15,040 --> 01:24:18,160
Speaker 1: a shot that I would have never taken in the

1465
01:24:18,200 --> 01:24:21,000
Speaker 1: old days, the front shot full yeah, the frontal shot

1466
01:24:21,560 --> 01:24:25,560
Speaker 1: like low Brisket and um Menfel's bullshot bulls together like

1467
01:24:25,640 --> 01:24:28,439
Speaker 1: that last year with your broadheads, and that neither of

1468
01:24:28,479 --> 01:24:31,960
Speaker 1: them went anywhere, And that was kind of like I'm

1469
01:24:32,000 --> 01:24:34,280
Speaker 1: not saying I don't you know, it worked good, but

1470
01:24:34,400 --> 01:24:37,840
Speaker 1: it was kind of like that doing a thing that

1471
01:24:37,960 --> 01:24:40,800
Speaker 1: you thought you weren't supposed to do, but someone convincing

1472
01:24:40,880 --> 01:24:44,840
Speaker 1: you that you had the right, necessary thing to do it.

1473
01:24:45,760 --> 01:24:49,080
Speaker 1: But it still feels funny, like to get you a

1474
01:24:49,120 --> 01:24:51,200
Speaker 1: point where you're like to get to a point where

1475
01:24:51,479 --> 01:24:56,000
Speaker 1: you had deer that are quartering to you and you're

1476
01:24:56,160 --> 01:24:59,519
Speaker 1: so confident about what's gonna happen, You're just gonna like

1477
01:24:59,640 --> 01:25:02,360
Speaker 1: punch in there, no one. You're gonna bust through all

1478
01:25:02,400 --> 01:25:04,880
Speaker 1: those bones, you know, Yeah, for years I didn't. For years,

1479
01:25:04,920 --> 01:25:08,200
Speaker 1: I passed up frontal shots or slight quartering two and

1480
01:25:09,160 --> 01:25:11,840
Speaker 1: it was through. And at the same time, I've shot

1481
01:25:12,479 --> 01:25:15,160
Speaker 1: through hundreds of leg bones with our broad heads and

1482
01:25:15,240 --> 01:25:18,439
Speaker 1: completely passed through even like a moose femur, completely passed

1483
01:25:18,479 --> 01:25:21,240
Speaker 1: through and the broadhead looks good, so I knew that

1484
01:25:21,320 --> 01:25:23,880
Speaker 1: it could get through the bones. But yeah, I had that,

1485
01:25:23,960 --> 01:25:26,280
Speaker 1: still had that in my head that according to is

1486
01:25:26,360 --> 01:25:28,519
Speaker 1: a is a no go shot or frontals and no

1487
01:25:28,680 --> 01:25:33,080
Speaker 1: go But um yeah, and you know people are going

1488
01:25:33,120 --> 01:25:35,200
Speaker 1: to argue whether or not it's ethical, But I think

1489
01:25:35,720 --> 01:25:37,200
Speaker 1: I've got the knowledge at this point that I know

1490
01:25:37,400 --> 01:25:40,360
Speaker 1: it's going through a hundred percent confident it's going through

1491
01:25:40,400 --> 01:25:42,519
Speaker 1: that bone and it's gonna stick into the ground on

1492
01:25:42,600 --> 01:25:44,680
Speaker 1: the other side of them. You know. The thing that

1493
01:25:45,000 --> 01:25:48,760
Speaker 1: comes out of this is I remember and talking to Ask,

1494
01:25:48,840 --> 01:25:53,880
Speaker 1: we talked about this where if you hit it, like

1495
01:25:54,280 --> 01:25:56,240
Speaker 1: if you hit a deer, elk, whatever, and you come

1496
01:25:56,240 --> 01:25:58,320
Speaker 1: in behind the shoulder blade and you angle in and

1497
01:25:58,400 --> 01:26:01,519
Speaker 1: punch a hole in its heart, it's dead. It's like

1498
01:26:02,200 --> 01:26:03,880
Speaker 1: He's like, it was kind of like, we're not talking

1499
01:26:03,920 --> 01:26:07,160
Speaker 1: about that, like all the setups out there everybody has.

1500
01:26:07,360 --> 01:26:09,559
Speaker 1: If you don't if you go pass between two ribs

1501
01:26:09,600 --> 01:26:12,080
Speaker 1: and punch a hole in it's heart, sure, right. The

1502
01:26:12,160 --> 01:26:15,519
Speaker 1: conversation is what happens when it doesn't do that? Right?

1503
01:26:15,600 --> 01:26:17,880
Speaker 1: Any broadhead you shoot behind the shoulder, all you have

1504
01:26:18,000 --> 01:26:20,160
Speaker 1: is maybe a rib and the hearts there. You know,

1505
01:26:20,240 --> 01:26:23,800
Speaker 1: any broadhead is gonna gonna kill it. It's what are

1506
01:26:23,840 --> 01:26:25,920
Speaker 1: the other trade offs. Let's say it ducked and turned

1507
01:26:25,920 --> 01:26:28,000
Speaker 1: into it and you hit the shoulder and let me

1508
01:26:28,040 --> 01:26:30,479
Speaker 1: add before I forget, I don't want to advocate that,

1509
01:26:31,120 --> 01:26:33,960
Speaker 1: you know, kids out there should be shooting deer in

1510
01:26:34,000 --> 01:26:36,320
Speaker 1: the shoulder blade right now either because it's it's going

1511
01:26:36,360 --> 01:26:38,720
Speaker 1: to depend on your set up, your broad head. You know,

1512
01:26:38,920 --> 01:26:41,040
Speaker 1: you have to know what you're capable of, and I

1513
01:26:41,080 --> 01:26:43,880
Speaker 1: don't want to. I don't want to encourage, you know,

1514
01:26:44,160 --> 01:26:46,080
Speaker 1: shots that would be unethical if you don't have the

1515
01:26:46,160 --> 01:26:48,880
Speaker 1: right set up for it. Mechanicals. You know, you're not

1516
01:26:48,920 --> 01:26:51,240
Speaker 1: going through the shoulder blade probably. But it's a funny

1517
01:26:51,280 --> 01:26:53,880
Speaker 1: conversation though, to say ethical, because you'd be like, that's

1518
01:26:53,920 --> 01:26:57,040
Speaker 1: not ethical, and you'd say, well, why is that not ethical?

1519
01:26:58,520 --> 01:27:04,120
Speaker 1: Is it measured by it's measured by an obsolete It's like,

1520
01:27:04,240 --> 01:27:09,800
Speaker 1: not ethical as measured by obsolete technology, right, I believe it.

1521
01:27:09,880 --> 01:27:11,519
Speaker 1: That's where it came from. It's not ethical because it

1522
01:27:11,560 --> 01:27:13,160
Speaker 1: doesn't work, and you'd be like, well, it does work.

1523
01:27:14,400 --> 01:27:17,880
Speaker 1: I believe, Yeah, I believe it's ethical if there's a

1524
01:27:17,960 --> 01:27:20,160
Speaker 1: high percentage chance it's going to be a very quick,

1525
01:27:20,760 --> 01:27:24,559
Speaker 1: quick kill. Um, And I believe it is. And if

1526
01:27:25,200 --> 01:27:27,280
Speaker 1: with a mechanical I don't think it is. Togotiot it

1527
01:27:27,320 --> 01:27:28,800
Speaker 1: to the shoulder blade. There's a I mean, they might

1528
01:27:28,840 --> 01:27:31,160
Speaker 1: get through, but a good chance they wouldn't. So you know,

1529
01:27:31,240 --> 01:27:34,080
Speaker 1: you might argue that's not an ethical shot, but it's

1530
01:27:35,200 --> 01:27:37,000
Speaker 1: I guess that's why I use the word ethicals. I

1531
01:27:37,080 --> 01:27:39,120
Speaker 1: feel like as a hypercentage of a very quick kill,

1532
01:27:39,360 --> 01:27:42,640
Speaker 1: very quick death of taking the animal. But it's interesting

1533
01:27:42,760 --> 01:27:46,320
Speaker 1: to I guess, like at risk of overstaying. The point

1534
01:27:46,439 --> 01:27:50,240
Speaker 1: would be when you say whether or not a certain

1535
01:27:50,320 --> 01:27:52,400
Speaker 1: shot with the bow was ethical. It's sort of like,

1536
01:27:53,800 --> 01:27:58,920
Speaker 1: is it ethical with what I'm shooting right? Not? Is

1537
01:27:59,000 --> 01:28:03,680
Speaker 1: it ethical right with what I'm shooting? My personal capabilities,

1538
01:28:03,840 --> 01:28:07,080
Speaker 1: my effective range, all those things come into it. I think,

1539
01:28:07,240 --> 01:28:10,320
Speaker 1: is it you know, what are the odds of that animal?

1540
01:28:10,640 --> 01:28:15,519
Speaker 1: You're gonna take that animal quickly? U versus maybe wound

1541
01:28:15,560 --> 01:28:18,800
Speaker 1: the animal? You know, that would be the the decision there.

1542
01:28:20,960 --> 01:28:22,680
Speaker 1: One of the things that asked you said, and I

1543
01:28:22,800 --> 01:28:26,960
Speaker 1: noticed that because I had had your broadheads is um.

1544
01:28:29,360 --> 01:28:32,559
Speaker 1: He said that the shape of the point on your

1545
01:28:32,600 --> 01:28:36,479
Speaker 1: broadheads is like the big no, no, really, you didn't

1546
01:28:36,479 --> 01:28:39,120
Speaker 1: know this. No, No, I think he said he likes it.

1547
01:28:39,240 --> 01:28:41,080
Speaker 1: I think I thought he said that anything with the

1548
01:28:41,240 --> 01:28:45,439
Speaker 1: shoulder Tonto tip. It's the same thing that he uses

1549
01:28:45,560 --> 01:28:47,760
Speaker 1: that they like to know he likes the Tonto tip,

1550
01:28:47,880 --> 01:28:51,640
Speaker 1: for sure. I thought he only liked the long gradual point. Well,

1551
01:28:51,720 --> 01:28:55,800
Speaker 1: he likes the three to one, and that's the She

1552
01:28:55,840 --> 01:28:58,960
Speaker 1: didn't say that it's naughty to have a step or

1553
01:28:59,000 --> 01:29:05,280
Speaker 1: a shoulder per cent. You're positive. That's pretty positive. Are

1554
01:29:05,280 --> 01:29:07,880
Speaker 1: you talking about the shoulder on the on the blade.

1555
01:29:08,479 --> 01:29:11,200
Speaker 1: I thought that's a no, that's not no. He likes that.

1556
01:29:11,320 --> 01:29:14,920
Speaker 1: That's the Tonto tip. That's it. That adds a lot

1557
01:29:14,960 --> 01:29:18,920
Speaker 1: of strength. Messing up, you're messing it up. But he doesn't.

1558
01:29:19,200 --> 01:29:21,639
Speaker 1: He does push the three to one, which is the biggest,

1559
01:29:21,760 --> 01:29:23,800
Speaker 1: one of the biggest points of contention I really have

1560
01:29:23,920 --> 01:29:26,960
Speaker 1: with them. Okay, explain three to one, all right, So

1561
01:29:27,160 --> 01:29:31,160
Speaker 1: it's being applied wrong. It's the mechanism is wrong there.

1562
01:29:31,560 --> 01:29:34,600
Speaker 1: It's he's saying a three. He's saying a broadhead that

1563
01:29:34,720 --> 01:29:37,120
Speaker 1: has say three to one aspect ratio, like three inches

1564
01:29:37,200 --> 01:29:40,679
Speaker 1: long one inch wide. Okay, draw that for me. You're

1565
01:29:40,720 --> 01:29:45,960
Speaker 1: talking about you're talking about the shape of the broadhead. Yeah, okay,

1566
01:29:46,040 --> 01:29:49,040
Speaker 1: so he just drew a little broadhead, very classic little broadhead. Yeah.

1567
01:29:49,080 --> 01:29:51,400
Speaker 1: So the length is three inches and the width is

1568
01:29:51,479 --> 01:29:56,519
Speaker 1: one inch okay at its base. Yeah. Yeah, the width,

1569
01:29:56,640 --> 01:29:58,679
Speaker 1: like the cutting width you'd have would be one inch,

1570
01:29:59,280 --> 01:30:01,519
Speaker 1: but the length out sticking out the front of the

1571
01:30:01,640 --> 01:30:03,559
Speaker 1: arrow is three inches. So that makes three to one.

1572
01:30:03,720 --> 01:30:08,080
Speaker 1: That's three to one. It takes three inches. It takes

1573
01:30:08,200 --> 01:30:13,519
Speaker 1: three inches to express it's full one inch of width. Yes, Like,

1574
01:30:13,600 --> 01:30:15,519
Speaker 1: if I want to make a one inch cut in

1575
01:30:15,640 --> 01:30:18,839
Speaker 1: your abdomen, a one inch wide cut in your abdomen,

1576
01:30:18,880 --> 01:30:22,360
Speaker 1: I would need to insert this blade three inches into you. Right,

1577
01:30:22,400 --> 01:30:24,920
Speaker 1: it's got a it's making a wedge. It's like you

1578
01:30:25,160 --> 01:30:27,760
Speaker 1: the wedge and inches gotta pushed forward three inches And

1579
01:30:27,920 --> 01:30:30,960
Speaker 1: he likes three to one. Yeah, and which I would

1580
01:30:30,960 --> 01:30:34,040
Speaker 1: say is a shallow ass angle. It is. It's it's

1581
01:30:34,400 --> 01:30:38,320
Speaker 1: nine degrees. And I would say I could imagine, taken

1582
01:30:38,400 --> 01:30:41,840
Speaker 1: to an extreme, you might wind up with something pretty

1583
01:30:41,880 --> 01:30:44,960
Speaker 1: flimsy up towards the tip exactly. So there's there's two

1584
01:30:45,040 --> 01:30:49,400
Speaker 1: negatives to it. One is like an engineer, bro you are,

1585
01:30:50,720 --> 01:30:53,599
Speaker 1: So there's two. You know that I understand that problem.

1586
01:30:55,280 --> 01:30:57,759
Speaker 1: There's two disadvantages. One is it's got a weak point

1587
01:30:58,160 --> 01:31:02,160
Speaker 1: um because the stress is proportional to length cube. So

1588
01:31:02,479 --> 01:31:03,880
Speaker 1: a three to one is going to have a lot

1589
01:31:04,000 --> 01:31:07,599
Speaker 1: higher stress and be more likely to break the tip off. Okay.

1590
01:31:08,479 --> 01:31:10,479
Speaker 1: The other issues is not going to fly very well

1591
01:31:10,800 --> 01:31:13,680
Speaker 1: because you got a lot more surface area. Well, it's

1592
01:31:13,680 --> 01:31:18,599
Speaker 1: gonna be less stable, less forgiving in flight m okay.

1593
01:31:19,439 --> 01:31:22,519
Speaker 1: And what he says is that this has a three

1594
01:31:22,560 --> 01:31:25,920
Speaker 1: to one mechanical advantage, and that's that's where the problem is.

1595
01:31:26,200 --> 01:31:30,360
Speaker 1: Mechanical advantage is it's a term used on a simple

1596
01:31:30,439 --> 01:31:33,920
Speaker 1: machine to give the ratio of force import the force

1597
01:31:34,000 --> 01:31:36,880
Speaker 1: house output. So like on a lever, you might have

1598
01:31:37,080 --> 01:31:40,360
Speaker 1: like you input a force, you get three three and

1599
01:31:40,439 --> 01:31:42,560
Speaker 1: put one pound, you get three pounds out. You know

1600
01:31:42,840 --> 01:31:45,640
Speaker 1: the shape of the lever. So he's applying that to

1601
01:31:45,800 --> 01:31:49,200
Speaker 1: a broadhead like it's a wedge, Like it's wedging something

1602
01:31:49,360 --> 01:31:53,000
Speaker 1: up an inch okay, like like a box that would

1603
01:31:53,040 --> 01:31:55,880
Speaker 1: slide on a wedge. Yeah, if you pushed in a

1604
01:31:55,960 --> 01:31:58,920
Speaker 1: pound of force, you get about a three pound pushed

1605
01:31:58,920 --> 01:32:01,320
Speaker 1: it with one pound you get about three pounds force

1606
01:32:01,400 --> 01:32:04,880
Speaker 1: pushing that up. Well, a broadhead doesn't wedge an animal apart.

1607
01:32:06,080 --> 01:32:09,000
Speaker 1: It's just a big it's a big myth here that

1608
01:32:10,040 --> 01:32:12,679
Speaker 1: it's really cutting it, it's slicing it. You're only wedging

1609
01:32:12,720 --> 01:32:16,600
Speaker 1: it apart the thickness of the blades, yeah, or the

1610
01:32:16,720 --> 01:32:19,720
Speaker 1: ferreal yeah, or then the ferrel and then and then

1611
01:32:19,760 --> 01:32:23,360
Speaker 1: the and then the arrow. But it's totally been applied wrong.

1612
01:32:24,120 --> 01:32:27,800
Speaker 1: Three to one mechanical advantage should not be applied to

1613
01:32:27,880 --> 01:32:29,800
Speaker 1: a broadhead. You call the three to one aspect ratio.

1614
01:32:30,640 --> 01:32:35,600
Speaker 1: But it's dominated by the force to cut. Okay, it's not.

1615
01:32:35,760 --> 01:32:38,720
Speaker 1: It's not wedging the whole animal apart. So is there

1616
01:32:38,840 --> 01:32:43,320
Speaker 1: some other scientific term or or mechanism that what he

1617
01:32:43,400 --> 01:32:45,559
Speaker 1: because what are he is saying is correct? Right? If

1618
01:32:45,960 --> 01:32:50,400
Speaker 1: if your blade is steeper, it should take less force

1619
01:32:50,520 --> 01:32:55,000
Speaker 1: to push through the medium than if it was wider. Yes,

1620
01:32:55,200 --> 01:32:58,240
Speaker 1: And what I've found myself is that it's good point.

1621
01:32:58,760 --> 01:33:01,759
Speaker 1: So a three to one, three to one has about

1622
01:33:01,800 --> 01:33:04,960
Speaker 1: it because eight degrees per side. You know, if you're

1623
01:33:04,960 --> 01:33:06,640
Speaker 1: looking at the access of the arrow, three one is

1624
01:33:06,640 --> 01:33:09,200
Speaker 1: about eight degree a one and a half to one

1625
01:33:09,400 --> 01:33:12,719
Speaker 1: is about sixteen degrees. Those are both very shallow angles

1626
01:33:12,760 --> 01:33:15,519
Speaker 1: when you talk about cutting something, and what I found

1627
01:33:15,600 --> 01:33:18,960
Speaker 1: is there very little difference in force to penetrate if

1628
01:33:19,000 --> 01:33:22,920
Speaker 1: you have a very sharp edge. So if you think

1629
01:33:22,920 --> 01:33:24,720
Speaker 1: about taking a knife and you're gonna cut a roast,

1630
01:33:24,800 --> 01:33:27,960
Speaker 1: and you're gonna just cut it at an eight degree angle,

1631
01:33:28,200 --> 01:33:30,719
Speaker 1: and what force would that take versus a sixteen degree angle?

1632
01:33:30,800 --> 01:33:32,719
Speaker 1: What force would that take with a really sharp knife.

1633
01:33:33,040 --> 01:33:36,120
Speaker 1: They're both pretty shallow cuts, right, they're both just slicing.

1634
01:33:36,760 --> 01:33:38,400
Speaker 1: Now if you get up to like forty five degrees

1635
01:33:38,439 --> 01:33:41,080
Speaker 1: are more where it's more of a chop, then I

1636
01:33:41,200 --> 01:33:44,080
Speaker 1: think that's where. So if you tested it all the

1637
01:33:44,120 --> 01:33:48,680
Speaker 1: way out to degrees or seeing like when does it

1638
01:33:48,760 --> 01:33:50,360
Speaker 1: make a difference When all of a sudden you're like,

1639
01:33:50,360 --> 01:33:52,600
Speaker 1: all right, yeah, this thing is not penetrating. Yeah, I

1640
01:33:52,600 --> 01:33:55,439
Speaker 1: think up over up over forty maybe it does. But

1641
01:33:55,520 --> 01:33:57,680
Speaker 1: what I've seen in the in the range and even

1642
01:33:57,720 --> 01:33:59,920
Speaker 1: at a one to one that's a twenty six degree angle,

1643
01:34:00,000 --> 01:34:04,240
Speaker 1: it's pretty shallow. Um I have found, and I've I've

1644
01:34:04,280 --> 01:34:06,400
Speaker 1: measured the force to penetrate, you know with the instro

1645
01:34:06,560 --> 01:34:09,679
Speaker 1: machine going not through hide and muscle, and I don't

1646
01:34:09,680 --> 01:34:13,599
Speaker 1: get any difference in force with with that. Um those

1647
01:34:13,680 --> 01:34:16,960
Speaker 1: changes in angle of about one to one one point

1648
01:34:17,000 --> 01:34:19,240
Speaker 1: five to one. And I've talked to dr Ashby about this,

1649
01:34:19,880 --> 01:34:22,800
Speaker 1: and the last time I talked to him he actually said, yeah,

1650
01:34:22,840 --> 01:34:26,360
Speaker 1: my data doesn't really um doesn't really show the three

1651
01:34:26,439 --> 01:34:28,760
Speaker 1: to one. He's tested two point six to one and

1652
01:34:28,840 --> 01:34:31,040
Speaker 1: had the same results as three to one. He said

1653
01:34:31,080 --> 01:34:32,760
Speaker 1: that was more of a Howard Hill thing that was

1654
01:34:32,840 --> 01:34:35,720
Speaker 1: carried forward. So it's more like folklore that you need

1655
01:34:35,760 --> 01:34:40,240
Speaker 1: a three to one for um for a broadhead shape.

1656
01:34:40,360 --> 01:34:43,599
Speaker 1: So that's a myth. Let's everybody out there but saying

1657
01:34:43,640 --> 01:34:47,439
Speaker 1: it saying it. It's not true. Do you know what's

1658
01:34:47,479 --> 01:34:49,920
Speaker 1: driving me crazy? More crazy than when I couldn't understand

1659
01:34:50,000 --> 01:34:54,519
Speaker 1: about the bow and the length of the amount of

1660
01:34:54,600 --> 01:34:59,519
Speaker 1: time your string applies pressure under your air, that constant acceleration. Dude,

1661
01:34:59,600 --> 01:35:02,400
Speaker 1: I where there was something about that. He didn't like

1662
01:35:02,520 --> 01:35:06,640
Speaker 1: a shoulder, he didn't like. Chisel tips he liked he

1663
01:35:06,760 --> 01:35:09,000
Speaker 1: wanted to cut on contact, which is what that is.

1664
01:35:09,320 --> 01:35:12,240
Speaker 1: So what he liked is the tonto tips, so that

1665
01:35:12,360 --> 01:35:14,479
Speaker 1: straight three to one where it's got the same angle

1666
01:35:14,600 --> 01:35:18,640
Speaker 1: going all the way out. He likes truncating that with

1667
01:35:18,800 --> 01:35:21,680
Speaker 1: a little bit. So tonto tip just means instead of

1668
01:35:21,760 --> 01:35:24,040
Speaker 1: having that say eight degree per side all the way out,

1669
01:35:24,560 --> 01:35:26,880
Speaker 1: you go to maybe a twenty degree per side right

1670
01:35:27,240 --> 01:35:30,840
Speaker 1: right at the end, and if you don't, you break

1671
01:35:30,880 --> 01:35:35,120
Speaker 1: that tip really easily. Structural integrity. Right, Yeah, So that's

1672
01:35:35,240 --> 01:35:37,320
Speaker 1: basically the reason for it. I found that too. I

1673
01:35:37,439 --> 01:35:40,719
Speaker 1: was testing a lot of three to one broadheads initially

1674
01:35:40,840 --> 01:35:43,160
Speaker 1: through bone. I was breaking the points off all the time,

1675
01:35:43,800 --> 01:35:45,840
Speaker 1: and they weren't flying well, and so I started in

1676
01:35:45,880 --> 01:35:49,000
Speaker 1: my own design getting getting shorter and shorter over time,

1677
01:35:49,080 --> 01:35:52,040
Speaker 1: and then adding that tonto tip to increase that strength

1678
01:35:52,320 --> 01:35:54,400
Speaker 1: when he hit heavy bones. So that's what you're after

1679
01:35:54,520 --> 01:35:57,040
Speaker 1: when you do that tonto tip blade is you're after

1680
01:35:57,120 --> 01:36:02,320
Speaker 1: getting rid of that somewhat flimsy narrow point. Right on

1681
01:36:02,520 --> 01:36:06,240
Speaker 1: one of Dr at Ashby's broadheads, he does have a

1682
01:36:06,439 --> 01:36:12,720
Speaker 1: slight tonto tip on it. It's like he does very slight.

1683
01:36:12,920 --> 01:36:19,439
Speaker 1: That's wrong, Okay, yeah, that's that's one of those Remember

1684
01:36:19,439 --> 01:36:21,920
Speaker 1: remember happy days when he'd be like, I was rude,

1685
01:36:27,920 --> 01:36:31,720
Speaker 1: So what uh, how do how do you like what

1686
01:36:31,840 --> 01:36:35,360
Speaker 1: have you done to actually test it on bone? Right?

1687
01:36:35,360 --> 01:36:37,320
Speaker 1: Because I think that there's a thing like a guy

1688
01:36:37,520 --> 01:36:43,160
Speaker 1: like take something in my mind would be you can

1689
01:36:43,240 --> 01:36:45,920
Speaker 1: look and be uh, all right, I accept all the

1690
01:36:46,240 --> 01:36:49,519
Speaker 1: laws of physics, okay, but in your head, like, but

1691
01:36:49,640 --> 01:36:51,840
Speaker 1: what if you like, what if you're like missing something,

1692
01:36:52,120 --> 01:36:54,880
Speaker 1: like you're not thinking of something? Right? So I just

1693
01:36:54,920 --> 01:36:59,840
Speaker 1: would want to see, um shoot it into a bunch

1694
01:36:59,880 --> 01:37:03,320
Speaker 1: of owns and see what happens. Can you do you

1695
01:37:03,439 --> 01:37:05,400
Speaker 1: feel that you can get to a thing where you

1696
01:37:05,560 --> 01:37:08,560
Speaker 1: know you've accounted for everything and not need to go

1697
01:37:08,760 --> 01:37:10,200
Speaker 1: do that? Because I was thinking that's kind of the

1698
01:37:10,280 --> 01:37:13,519
Speaker 1: main thing he brings to it is he shot umpteen

1699
01:37:14,680 --> 01:37:21,760
Speaker 1: thousand arrows into all kinds of dead ship, right, do

1700
01:37:21,800 --> 01:37:25,240
Speaker 1: you know what I'm saying? Like how you know if

1701
01:37:25,320 --> 01:37:27,000
Speaker 1: you went to a lot of you know, the bulk

1702
01:37:27,040 --> 01:37:29,680
Speaker 1: of Americans, I think they'd go like, Okay, I get

1703
01:37:29,720 --> 01:37:33,680
Speaker 1: all the you know, all the thinking and calculating and figuring, right,

1704
01:37:34,080 --> 01:37:36,280
Speaker 1: but how can you argue with just shooting arrows into

1705
01:37:36,320 --> 01:37:39,280
Speaker 1: dead stuff and seeing what it does? Because what if

1706
01:37:39,400 --> 01:37:43,160
Speaker 1: the tinker the figuring and thinking didn't account for some

1707
01:37:43,360 --> 01:37:47,760
Speaker 1: like unknown weirdness like what hair? You know, what is

1708
01:37:47,880 --> 01:37:50,360
Speaker 1: what is the role of hair? What is the role

1709
01:37:50,479 --> 01:37:56,080
Speaker 1: of it of hide? What is the role of hitting hide?

1710
01:37:56,160 --> 01:37:58,400
Speaker 1: And then the bone? Yeah, good point. You can have

1711
01:37:58,600 --> 01:38:00,920
Speaker 1: we can have the mechanisms wrong, right, I gonna try

1712
01:38:00,920 --> 01:38:03,200
Speaker 1: and apply science, but I could up being applying it

1713
01:38:03,320 --> 01:38:06,840
Speaker 1: wrong if I if the mechanisms a little bit different

1714
01:38:06,920 --> 01:38:09,280
Speaker 1: than I think this. Um, kind of that wedge versus

1715
01:38:09,320 --> 01:38:14,759
Speaker 1: cutting thing going on. Um. And and you're right in theory,

1716
01:38:14,800 --> 01:38:17,360
Speaker 1: and I've done this in theory. I can calculate it

1717
01:38:17,439 --> 01:38:19,960
Speaker 1: with my bow, my arrow, set up my broad head.

1718
01:38:20,320 --> 01:38:24,640
Speaker 1: You know I've measured the force to penetrate hide muscle scapula.

1719
01:38:25,360 --> 01:38:29,120
Speaker 1: I can you know theoretically, I calculated that I can

1720
01:38:29,160 --> 01:38:31,080
Speaker 1: get a double shoulder blade passed through on an elk

1721
01:38:32,400 --> 01:38:35,960
Speaker 1: on paper. Um, But you cant be some part of

1722
01:38:36,040 --> 01:38:39,120
Speaker 1: your brain. It's like, now, I'll try it out right,

1723
01:38:39,760 --> 01:38:41,840
Speaker 1: and I and I have. I've gotten single shoulder blade

1724
01:38:41,840 --> 01:38:44,400
Speaker 1: pastors on on elk. I haven't shopland through both. But

1725
01:38:44,800 --> 01:38:47,640
Speaker 1: I've shot a big boar through both shoulder blades and

1726
01:38:47,880 --> 01:38:51,320
Speaker 1: spine and got passed through both shoulder blades and the spine.

1727
01:38:51,560 --> 01:38:55,559
Speaker 1: So you know, I hunt a lot. I get, um average,

1728
01:38:55,600 --> 01:38:57,680
Speaker 1: maybe fifteen animals a year. I hunt had a lot

1729
01:38:57,760 --> 01:39:01,479
Speaker 1: of elk u, elk, deer, herbo pigs, other things. So

1730
01:39:02,439 --> 01:39:03,960
Speaker 1: I mean I love bone hunting. And that's really why

1731
01:39:04,000 --> 01:39:06,320
Speaker 1: I'm doing this is I want to be a more

1732
01:39:06,360 --> 01:39:09,760
Speaker 1: effective bone hunter. Um. But I also shot a lot

1733
01:39:09,800 --> 01:39:12,759
Speaker 1: of bones, so I was getting you know, cattle bones

1734
01:39:12,800 --> 01:39:18,280
Speaker 1: from the butcher, saving elk bones, and and that's really

1735
01:39:18,360 --> 01:39:21,880
Speaker 1: one of my early goals was just to penetrate through bone,

1736
01:39:22,120 --> 01:39:24,400
Speaker 1: make sure I got to the vitals and didn't have

1737
01:39:24,479 --> 01:39:27,400
Speaker 1: it stopped there. So you know, that made me iterate

1738
01:39:27,439 --> 01:39:30,680
Speaker 1: on which steel type um, which ferreal type going to

1739
01:39:30,840 --> 01:39:34,360
Speaker 1: like titanium hardened steel so the ferrels didn't bend um

1740
01:39:34,439 --> 01:39:36,479
Speaker 1: and then work on the arrow connection set up so

1741
01:39:36,600 --> 01:39:38,559
Speaker 1: that that you know, the arrow didn't break as well.

1742
01:39:38,800 --> 01:39:42,000
Speaker 1: So yeah, I've tested on by shooting a lot of bones,

1743
01:39:42,200 --> 01:39:45,320
Speaker 1: and really because that's a good durability test in that

1744
01:39:46,600 --> 01:39:49,880
Speaker 1: and that impact is hard to model. It's hard to

1745
01:39:50,000 --> 01:39:55,000
Speaker 1: just calculate. Um. It's very complex and if you think

1746
01:39:55,040 --> 01:39:56,800
Speaker 1: about it, and what I didn't really I really hadn't

1747
01:39:56,800 --> 01:39:58,960
Speaker 1: put a lot of thought into it prior to two

1748
01:39:59,040 --> 01:40:02,040
Speaker 1: thousand four is the it A broadhead blade has a

1749
01:40:02,120 --> 01:40:04,800
Speaker 1: really difficult job. I mean, where else out there do

1750
01:40:04,840 --> 01:40:07,720
Speaker 1: you have something that you want to be very very

1751
01:40:07,760 --> 01:40:10,160
Speaker 1: sharp to cut, but you're also gonna fling it at

1752
01:40:10,160 --> 01:40:13,200
Speaker 1: three inter feet per twod and not know what you hit.

1753
01:40:13,320 --> 01:40:16,880
Speaker 1: It might hit, it's gonna hit high, it might hit bone. Um,

1754
01:40:17,120 --> 01:40:19,040
Speaker 1: you don't know what angle is gonna hit at. So

1755
01:40:19,240 --> 01:40:22,280
Speaker 1: it's a pretty it's a pretty difficult job. You know.

1756
01:40:22,439 --> 01:40:25,479
Speaker 1: That broadhead has just to stay intact, stay sharp, cut,

1757
01:40:26,040 --> 01:40:30,040
Speaker 1: and to have this tremendous impact. Um. Yeah, that's that's

1758
01:40:30,080 --> 01:40:32,200
Speaker 1: a You bring up an interesting point there because if

1759
01:40:32,200 --> 01:40:34,679
Speaker 1: you imagine, like taking your filet knife and cleaning a fish,

1760
01:40:36,000 --> 01:40:40,559
Speaker 1: you have this instrument designed for that might be great

1761
01:40:41,200 --> 01:40:47,160
Speaker 1: for cutting through right fish muscle, right right, But then

1762
01:40:47,200 --> 01:40:48,479
Speaker 1: all of a sudden you realize that you put a

1763
01:40:48,560 --> 01:40:51,439
Speaker 1: scale in front of it and it doesn't like that,

1764
01:40:52,240 --> 01:40:54,760
Speaker 1: and you go to remove the fish's collar and it

1765
01:40:54,880 --> 01:40:57,920
Speaker 1: definitely doesn't like that. And then you imagine, now I'm

1766
01:40:57,920 --> 01:41:00,960
Speaker 1: gonna stab it through the fish's skull. It really doesn't

1767
01:41:01,040 --> 01:41:04,000
Speaker 1: like that. But you wouldn't declare, you know what I mean.

1768
01:41:04,120 --> 01:41:05,800
Speaker 1: But you're sort of with your broadhead, your sort of

1769
01:41:05,840 --> 01:41:08,840
Speaker 1: saying no, no, no, you gotta I want you to

1770
01:41:08,880 --> 01:41:11,200
Speaker 1: do any and all of that right when I shoot

1771
01:41:11,240 --> 01:41:14,280
Speaker 1: it at this fish, when I take it to this fish, right, yeah,

1772
01:41:14,320 --> 01:41:16,520
Speaker 1: And that's why a lot of a lot of broadheads.

1773
01:41:16,600 --> 01:41:21,120
Speaker 1: That broadheads kind of evolved to be manufactured at low cost,

1774
01:41:21,720 --> 01:41:25,879
Speaker 1: so cheaper materials, thinner parts, um, a lot of luminum

1775
01:41:25,960 --> 01:41:31,040
Speaker 1: or softer steel, ferrells and four twenty blade steel. Um,

1776
01:41:31,280 --> 01:41:32,880
Speaker 1: it's kind of a low end steel, but it can

1777
01:41:32,920 --> 01:41:35,760
Speaker 1: be manufactured very low cost. And so a lot of

1778
01:41:36,360 --> 01:41:38,560
Speaker 1: a lot of the products drove more towards you know,

1779
01:41:38,640 --> 01:41:41,960
Speaker 1: lower cost to manufacture, and I think that's what consumers wanted.

1780
01:41:42,040 --> 01:41:44,760
Speaker 1: They wanted things that were lower cost. And they work

1781
01:41:45,600 --> 01:41:48,040
Speaker 1: if you hit him behind the shoulder, they work fine, Um,

1782
01:41:48,600 --> 01:41:50,080
Speaker 1: but they don't do very good on these on these

1783
01:41:50,120 --> 01:42:02,720
Speaker 1: bone impacts. What is some of the cost differentials out there? Um,

1784
01:42:04,160 --> 01:42:06,200
Speaker 1: you know, just in dollars, what's a cheap broadhead and

1785
01:42:06,240 --> 01:42:10,080
Speaker 1: what's an expensive broadhead? Yeah, three for thirty or forty

1786
01:42:10,080 --> 01:42:13,840
Speaker 1: dollars just kind of going right for most um, you know,

1787
01:42:13,920 --> 01:42:17,320
Speaker 1: big star broadheads, I would say, and and um so

1788
01:42:17,520 --> 01:42:22,280
Speaker 1: still ten bucks twelve bucks apiece. Yeah, that's that's probably

1789
01:42:22,320 --> 01:42:25,120
Speaker 1: most typical. I mean you'll find some that are six

1790
01:42:25,880 --> 01:42:29,200
Speaker 1: dollars really really low and stuff. Um, but I say

1791
01:42:29,200 --> 01:42:31,719
Speaker 1: it on three for forties pretty common, three forty five

1792
01:42:32,040 --> 01:42:36,000
Speaker 1: fifties some um, you know ironmal broadheads are we're at

1793
01:42:36,040 --> 01:42:38,280
Speaker 1: like one nineteen for a three pack, so it's about

1794
01:42:38,720 --> 01:42:42,680
Speaker 1: really yeah, like three times as much. So wow, I

1795
01:42:42,760 --> 01:42:45,400
Speaker 1: had no idea where like where's that you know, I've

1796
01:42:45,439 --> 01:42:48,400
Speaker 1: trusted it's going somewhere. Where is that money going? I

1797
01:42:48,439 --> 01:42:49,640
Speaker 1: don't mean, like what are you doing? Like what what

1798
01:42:49,760 --> 01:42:52,840
Speaker 1: are the materials differences? Do you know what I mean? Yeah? Yeah,

1799
01:42:53,120 --> 01:42:56,280
Speaker 1: So like what is expensive about? What is what makes

1800
01:42:56,360 --> 01:43:01,480
Speaker 1: them expensive material? It's some material als and manufacturing processes.

1801
01:43:02,439 --> 01:43:05,640
Speaker 1: So yeah, the steel, for instance, it's a it's a

1802
01:43:05,720 --> 01:43:11,120
Speaker 1: tool steel. It's thick, so you know, versus most blades

1803
01:43:11,200 --> 01:43:13,280
Speaker 1: they are thinner. They can you can run those on

1804
01:43:13,320 --> 01:43:14,880
Speaker 1: a reel to reel, you can have a coil of

1805
01:43:14,960 --> 01:43:17,240
Speaker 1: material on one side. It can go through a machine,

1806
01:43:17,360 --> 01:43:21,800
Speaker 1: get stamped um, ground everything right there, and come out

1807
01:43:21,800 --> 01:43:23,640
Speaker 1: on the other side as a complete blade. You know,

1808
01:43:23,720 --> 01:43:26,880
Speaker 1: that's a very low cost to make those versus this

1809
01:43:27,000 --> 01:43:28,920
Speaker 1: blade has made more like you would high end knife

1810
01:43:29,160 --> 01:43:32,360
Speaker 1: where you're you're taking you're blanking out the steel. When

1811
01:43:32,360 --> 01:43:35,599
Speaker 1: it softened, we do a heat treatment with a triple

1812
01:43:35,680 --> 01:43:38,600
Speaker 1: temper and a cry genic treatment to kind of maximize

1813
01:43:38,640 --> 01:43:41,200
Speaker 1: performance of the steel. And then it's a multi stage

1814
01:43:41,280 --> 01:43:46,080
Speaker 1: grinding and honing. UM. So it's extremely sharpen and holds

1815
01:43:46,120 --> 01:43:48,600
Speaker 1: the edge. You know, it's sixty rockwell see, which is

1816
01:43:48,640 --> 01:43:50,400
Speaker 1: what you'd have on a on a high end knife

1817
01:43:50,479 --> 01:43:53,600
Speaker 1: really but yet with a tool steel it it can

1818
01:43:53,680 --> 01:43:56,880
Speaker 1: take a high impact strength. Um. And as we're talking

1819
01:43:56,880 --> 01:43:59,640
Speaker 1: about the difficult job of a broadhead, that's why a

1820
01:43:59,720 --> 01:44:02,240
Speaker 1: lot of people will try to apply knife steels to it,

1821
01:44:02,680 --> 01:44:05,719
Speaker 1: which the steel might work great and a knife because

1822
01:44:05,760 --> 01:44:08,840
Speaker 1: it's not having a high speed impact, it doesn't have

1823
01:44:09,000 --> 01:44:13,320
Speaker 1: to have a lot of toughness. Um. But stainless steel

1824
01:44:13,360 --> 01:44:15,640
Speaker 1: is fairly brittle when it's that hard and it has

1825
01:44:15,720 --> 01:44:18,439
Speaker 1: some high high impact. Do you sell a lot of

1826
01:44:18,439 --> 01:44:20,760
Speaker 1: broadheads the white tail guys? Do you MUSTI sell broad

1827
01:44:20,800 --> 01:44:22,840
Speaker 1: has the guys that are hunting elk and moves and stuff.

1828
01:44:23,200 --> 01:44:26,240
Speaker 1: It's it's becoming more and more definitely. Initially we were

1829
01:44:27,160 --> 01:44:31,080
Speaker 1: selling to elk hunters. That was our major customer or

1830
01:44:31,120 --> 01:44:33,519
Speaker 1: guys coming from the east west to hunt elk, and

1831
01:44:33,760 --> 01:44:35,800
Speaker 1: we're it's kind of thought of as like an elk

1832
01:44:35,840 --> 01:44:39,040
Speaker 1: specialty broadhead. You know, this is made to penetrate through

1833
01:44:39,080 --> 01:44:42,720
Speaker 1: a bigger animal further um, But more and more white

1834
01:44:42,760 --> 01:44:45,439
Speaker 1: tail guys are using it too, And what I found

1835
01:44:45,479 --> 01:44:49,000
Speaker 1: personally is I needed a lot in white tails because

1836
01:44:49,040 --> 01:44:51,720
Speaker 1: there's so much more likely to move, you know, duck

1837
01:44:51,800 --> 01:44:55,960
Speaker 1: and turn um and and hit the shoulder. So I

1838
01:44:56,040 --> 01:44:59,040
Speaker 1: think it's um you know, it opens up shot opportunities

1839
01:44:59,080 --> 01:45:01,000
Speaker 1: straight down through the spa line. Or if you hit

1840
01:45:01,040 --> 01:45:04,519
Speaker 1: a shoulder and a white tail and it's it's it's

1841
01:45:04,640 --> 01:45:06,400
Speaker 1: maybe not the average white tail hunter, but it's the

1842
01:45:06,439 --> 01:45:09,679
Speaker 1: guy that's going after the you know, the bigger buck,

1843
01:45:09,800 --> 01:45:12,360
Speaker 1: or he's really passionate about about it and doesn't want

1844
01:45:12,400 --> 01:45:14,840
Speaker 1: doesn't want to have any failures. He wants to remove

1845
01:45:14,880 --> 01:45:17,519
Speaker 1: any failures you can from this gear and set up. Hey,

1846
01:45:17,600 --> 01:45:20,000
Speaker 1: and you just killed an antelope with one of with

1847
01:45:20,080 --> 01:45:22,559
Speaker 1: the iron wheel broadhead right here? Man, let me see

1848
01:45:22,600 --> 01:45:26,000
Speaker 1: it now, Yannie, what broadheads you shooting these days? It's

1849
01:45:26,040 --> 01:45:30,479
Speaker 1: called a tough head evolution. Now, uh, let's do those

1850
01:45:30,479 --> 01:45:35,479
Speaker 1: play this game. Let's say let's say Bill handed you

1851
01:45:35,560 --> 01:45:38,160
Speaker 1: a box of the broadheads. You'd say, well, no, I'm

1852
01:45:38,160 --> 01:45:43,559
Speaker 1: not gonna use those, because uh, now I wouldn't. I think,

1853
01:45:43,640 --> 01:45:46,120
Speaker 1: I mean for what I for what I know, they're

1854
01:45:46,479 --> 01:45:48,960
Speaker 1: very similar. I mean I think that some of the

1855
01:45:49,160 --> 01:45:51,599
Speaker 1: steel and some of the stuff that Bill can speak

1856
01:45:51,640 --> 01:45:53,720
Speaker 1: to that I can't. But I think as far as

1857
01:45:53,840 --> 01:45:59,200
Speaker 1: like shape and uh size and what they're supposed to do,

1858
01:45:59,479 --> 01:46:02,479
Speaker 1: it's they're pretty similar. Yeah, it's a high and broad

1859
01:46:02,560 --> 01:46:05,200
Speaker 1: head to it. It uses tool steel. Um, do you

1860
01:46:05,240 --> 01:46:07,400
Speaker 1: know what steel you're using and the ones you have?

1861
01:46:08,560 --> 01:46:10,000
Speaker 1: That's all right. I think there's a couple of use.

1862
01:46:10,120 --> 01:46:13,120
Speaker 1: But he's using tool steel. Um. One of the difference

1863
01:46:13,160 --> 01:46:15,360
Speaker 1: would be I've I've added bleeders. I really like that

1864
01:46:15,479 --> 01:46:19,400
Speaker 1: cross cut, and and that's kind of more game dependent.

1865
01:46:19,479 --> 01:46:22,240
Speaker 1: If I was just like dr Ashby going after Kate

1866
01:46:22,320 --> 01:46:26,880
Speaker 1: Buffalo or as no no bleeders, Yeah, he just likes

1867
01:46:26,920 --> 01:46:31,200
Speaker 1: a two blade. Yeah, and if if I was shooting

1868
01:46:31,240 --> 01:46:33,400
Speaker 1: and we make up what we call our buff series

1869
01:46:33,439 --> 01:46:35,840
Speaker 1: which has no bleeders really for somebody that wants to

1870
01:46:35,840 --> 01:46:38,920
Speaker 1: go after Kate Buffalo. But what I found from North

1871
01:46:38,960 --> 01:46:42,400
Speaker 1: American big game, having a cross cut of a bleeder

1872
01:46:42,479 --> 01:46:46,280
Speaker 1: set back has a minimal effect on penetration, and then

1873
01:46:46,320 --> 01:46:48,320
Speaker 1: it opens up this cross cut so you get a

1874
01:46:48,400 --> 01:46:52,439
Speaker 1: much better blood trail, you know, more total cut, more

1875
01:46:52,520 --> 01:46:57,639
Speaker 1: total inches sliced, so bleeds out faster, quicker kill, more

1876
01:46:57,640 --> 01:46:59,640
Speaker 1: blood on the ground. So I'm a big fan of

1877
01:46:59,720 --> 01:47:01,920
Speaker 1: bleed years. For the first two years I didn't have any,

1878
01:47:02,360 --> 01:47:04,960
Speaker 1: and occasionally we would just get a very poor blood trail,

1879
01:47:05,439 --> 01:47:07,679
Speaker 1: like that single slice just can close up too easily.

1880
01:47:08,240 --> 01:47:10,600
Speaker 1: So I like having that cross cut. It kind of

1881
01:47:10,680 --> 01:47:12,840
Speaker 1: forces there to be an open hole to some degree.

1882
01:47:13,120 --> 01:47:15,960
Speaker 1: I've told this before, I think on this podcast, but

1883
01:47:16,040 --> 01:47:20,040
Speaker 1: I shot a magnus stinger into a cow elk maybe

1884
01:47:20,280 --> 01:47:23,920
Speaker 1: fifteen years ago, and it did great what I thought

1885
01:47:24,040 --> 01:47:27,840
Speaker 1: at first, because that like bone or rib, scapula and

1886
01:47:28,000 --> 01:47:30,560
Speaker 1: a rib on the way out complete passed through just

1887
01:47:30,720 --> 01:47:33,360
Speaker 1: like you know, you wouldn't hit it hit her anywhere else.

1888
01:47:34,000 --> 01:47:37,679
Speaker 1: Long story short, twenty four hours later, after the blood

1889
01:47:37,720 --> 01:47:41,240
Speaker 1: trail pretty much disappears, I'm just doing mercy loops and

1890
01:47:41,320 --> 01:47:44,519
Speaker 1: I find her. Um. She had gone a mile kind

1891
01:47:44,560 --> 01:47:46,360
Speaker 1: of in a circle, but she had fallen into this

1892
01:47:46,479 --> 01:47:49,040
Speaker 1: beaver pond, which was lucky for me because she was

1893
01:47:49,120 --> 01:47:52,679
Speaker 1: like completely preserved as ice cold. It's so funny gutting

1894
01:47:52,680 --> 01:47:55,719
Speaker 1: it gutting an animal story, but I don't know where where,

1895
01:47:55,880 --> 01:47:59,040
Speaker 1: like the guts are ice cold. You know. It was

1896
01:47:59,120 --> 01:48:01,519
Speaker 1: great for the netcrop because you could really see everything

1897
01:48:01,600 --> 01:48:04,599
Speaker 1: that happened, but exactly that it had gone through both

1898
01:48:04,720 --> 01:48:08,160
Speaker 1: lungs but had only had a cut on a single axis.

1899
01:48:08,360 --> 01:48:10,120
Speaker 1: And all the best I can figure is that that

1900
01:48:10,280 --> 01:48:14,000
Speaker 1: whole just it was she was the lungs were able

1901
01:48:14,080 --> 01:48:18,760
Speaker 1: to keep that whole together and not lose compression or

1902
01:48:18,880 --> 01:48:22,920
Speaker 1: lose was it towards like higher back like towards the

1903
01:48:22,960 --> 01:48:25,200
Speaker 1: back of the lungs the black lobes. Man, boy, I

1904
01:48:25,200 --> 01:48:27,800
Speaker 1: had to go look at the pictures, but I just

1905
01:48:27,840 --> 01:48:29,519
Speaker 1: tell you it was pretty much dead center if I

1906
01:48:29,600 --> 01:48:32,840
Speaker 1: can remember. I mean it was, but yeah, but it

1907
01:48:33,000 --> 01:48:36,120
Speaker 1: just yeah, she went. We bumped her like at least

1908
01:48:36,200 --> 01:48:38,439
Speaker 1: twice the first day, and then we just decided just

1909
01:48:39,040 --> 01:48:40,960
Speaker 1: you know, set up camp and sleep and go after

1910
01:48:41,040 --> 01:48:43,800
Speaker 1: it again in the morning. The blood just disappeared. You know,

1911
01:48:43,880 --> 01:48:45,880
Speaker 1: when I when I hear cases that the guy like

1912
01:48:45,960 --> 01:48:47,960
Speaker 1: got a double long shot, but the animal went a

1913
01:48:48,040 --> 01:48:50,519
Speaker 1: lot further than it should. I think one thing I've

1914
01:48:50,560 --> 01:48:55,880
Speaker 1: seen a lot with um like stainless steel, especially in

1915
01:48:56,400 --> 01:49:00,280
Speaker 1: I think mechanicals were there only hardening it to like rack. See,

1916
01:49:00,400 --> 01:49:02,360
Speaker 1: is it doesn't hold that edge very well, so it

1917
01:49:02,400 --> 01:49:05,439
Speaker 1: gets through hide. You really get through hot the hair

1918
01:49:05,520 --> 01:49:08,280
Speaker 1: and hide, and it's dull, and then you're pushing tissue apart,

1919
01:49:08,760 --> 01:49:11,240
Speaker 1: so you might poke a hole through and and I've

1920
01:49:11,240 --> 01:49:13,120
Speaker 1: done a little testing of this with with a friend

1921
01:49:13,200 --> 01:49:16,280
Speaker 1: through like organs and things that you can take a

1922
01:49:16,360 --> 01:49:19,679
Speaker 1: liver um saying and push a really sharp broad head

1923
01:49:19,720 --> 01:49:22,320
Speaker 1: through it like our um, like the iron Well broad head,

1924
01:49:22,320 --> 01:49:24,479
Speaker 1: and you get a complete cross cut that's exactly the

1925
01:49:24,560 --> 01:49:26,720
Speaker 1: size of the broadhead through there. And then you take

1926
01:49:26,760 --> 01:49:31,280
Speaker 1: a maybe a three blade um that has the blades

1927
01:49:31,320 --> 01:49:33,200
Speaker 1: have been dulled from the hide in the hair and

1928
01:49:33,280 --> 01:49:35,200
Speaker 1: push it through there and you get a you get

1929
01:49:35,200 --> 01:49:36,880
Speaker 1: a hole through it, but you won't get the blades

1930
01:49:36,920 --> 01:49:39,519
Speaker 1: to cut the tissue will just kind of push push aside.

1931
01:49:40,400 --> 01:49:43,560
Speaker 1: So that's another thing that it's kind of hard to

1932
01:49:43,640 --> 01:49:47,719
Speaker 1: measure UM for people when they're doing these different penetration tests,

1933
01:49:47,720 --> 01:49:50,160
Speaker 1: they don't really factor that in. But having that sharpness

1934
01:49:50,200 --> 01:49:52,640
Speaker 1: and edgey tension, so you're actually slicing tissue all the

1935
01:49:52,680 --> 01:49:55,400
Speaker 1: way through, you're cutting a lot more tissue that you're

1936
01:49:55,400 --> 01:49:57,880
Speaker 1: not pushing aside, and you get quicker kills for that.

1937
01:49:58,160 --> 01:50:00,599
Speaker 1: And I think that bigger hole through the lungs make

1938
01:50:00,680 --> 01:50:04,880
Speaker 1: some claps quicker um because you can have and you know,

1939
01:50:04,920 --> 01:50:07,040
Speaker 1: I've got a brother that's a pathologist, and I've talked

1940
01:50:07,040 --> 01:50:09,280
Speaker 1: to other doctors about this to try and understand, like,

1941
01:50:09,560 --> 01:50:11,200
Speaker 1: you know, what it takes to kill an animal, because

1942
01:50:11,240 --> 01:50:15,000
Speaker 1: I've seen if you hit an animal high and back

1943
01:50:15,080 --> 01:50:19,200
Speaker 1: in the lungs, they can take longer to die. There's

1944
01:50:19,240 --> 01:50:22,800
Speaker 1: just less stuff back there. Yeah, there's less bleeding going on.

1945
01:50:23,640 --> 01:50:26,280
Speaker 1: And you know, you can remove a lobe and somebody

1946
01:50:26,360 --> 01:50:29,040
Speaker 1: can still live right so, um, they can still kind

1947
01:50:29,080 --> 01:50:31,080
Speaker 1: of breathe in the front lobes, and I think it

1948
01:50:32,080 --> 01:50:34,080
Speaker 1: you need enough of a whole enough air to get

1949
01:50:34,120 --> 01:50:36,120
Speaker 1: in there to kind of collapse the lungs. And that's

1950
01:50:36,160 --> 01:50:39,280
Speaker 1: why sometimes people will see an animal go for minutes

1951
01:50:39,320 --> 01:50:42,519
Speaker 1: on a double lung shot. Um. And that's also the

1952
01:50:42,560 --> 01:50:44,120
Speaker 1: reason why I like to aim, you know, in that

1953
01:50:44,320 --> 01:50:46,320
Speaker 1: vital v close to the top of the heart lung

1954
01:50:46,400 --> 01:50:50,080
Speaker 1: area because it's you know, it's risky because those bones around,

1955
01:50:50,200 --> 01:50:51,559
Speaker 1: But if you've got the right broadhead that you can

1956
01:50:51,600 --> 01:50:53,920
Speaker 1: get through the bone, that's the quick kill. You know,

1957
01:50:54,040 --> 01:50:56,479
Speaker 1: that heart top of the heart lung area. It's like

1958
01:50:57,200 --> 01:51:00,479
Speaker 1: five seconds then animals dead and you know usually drop

1959
01:51:00,600 --> 01:51:02,960
Speaker 1: an in sight if you can hit closer there. Yeah,

1960
01:51:02,960 --> 01:51:05,920
Speaker 1: Our buddy Cody Kellum from Born and Raised brought up

1961
01:51:05,920 --> 01:51:08,320
Speaker 1: a really good point. We were talking about this stuff

1962
01:51:08,320 --> 01:51:10,920
Speaker 1: at the First Light Hooting any last weekend, and he

1963
01:51:11,080 --> 01:51:13,639
Speaker 1: was saying, when he was a kid, his dad would

1964
01:51:13,720 --> 01:51:16,800
Speaker 1: make him sharpen his broadheads too, and they would take

1965
01:51:16,880 --> 01:51:20,000
Speaker 1: like remember when peep sites had that the tubing that

1966
01:51:20,040 --> 01:51:23,479
Speaker 1: would keep your peep site down. They would just stretch

1967
01:51:23,600 --> 01:51:26,400
Speaker 1: that not too tight. But he'd say, imagine that's an artery,

1968
01:51:26,840 --> 01:51:28,639
Speaker 1: and then see how much force it takes your broad

1969
01:51:28,680 --> 01:51:31,120
Speaker 1: head to cut that, Like does it just touch it

1970
01:51:31,320 --> 01:51:33,400
Speaker 1: and immediately it pops and cuts it, or do you

1971
01:51:33,439 --> 01:51:35,800
Speaker 1: have to slice that whole edge across it before it

1972
01:51:35,880 --> 01:51:37,679
Speaker 1: cuts right? And it's the same thing when that dull

1973
01:51:37,800 --> 01:51:41,880
Speaker 1: broadheads going through that animal. If it's not sharp, those

1974
01:51:42,000 --> 01:51:43,840
Speaker 1: arteries can just be literally just moving out of the

1975
01:51:43,920 --> 01:51:46,880
Speaker 1: way and it's going through it, but it's not doing

1976
01:51:46,920 --> 01:51:50,519
Speaker 1: any damage. And I saw that in the force testing

1977
01:51:50,560 --> 01:51:53,160
Speaker 1: I was doing that the so I was pushing on

1978
01:51:53,240 --> 01:51:56,479
Speaker 1: different broadhead designs and and a really sharp cut on

1979
01:51:56,600 --> 01:52:00,360
Speaker 1: contact to blade versus like a three point chill free

1980
01:52:00,400 --> 01:52:02,439
Speaker 1: blade chisel point, there will be about a five times

1981
01:52:02,520 --> 01:52:04,960
Speaker 1: difference in force to go through and it's really what

1982
01:52:05,280 --> 01:52:08,719
Speaker 1: focused me more on having a two blade on contact tip.

1983
01:52:09,240 --> 01:52:11,439
Speaker 1: What I'd see on the on the cheaper steels is

1984
01:52:11,520 --> 01:52:14,280
Speaker 1: that if I repeated the test pushed through hide and

1985
01:52:14,439 --> 01:52:16,760
Speaker 1: hide and muscle again, the forces going way up. So

1986
01:52:16,880 --> 01:52:21,400
Speaker 1: they dulled quickly and we're pushing more stuff aside. Let's uh,

1987
01:52:21,720 --> 01:52:25,040
Speaker 1: let's do this for a second. Tell me some things

1988
01:52:25,160 --> 01:52:29,479
Speaker 1: that like that you see people doing that you can

1989
01:52:29,560 --> 01:52:35,640
Speaker 1: just flat out say categorically that is stupid. Yeah, Like,

1990
01:52:35,720 --> 01:52:41,640
Speaker 1: there's no nothing, there's no like, there's no logical, reasonable

1991
01:52:43,000 --> 01:52:47,400
Speaker 1: whatever to support what you think is true. Like, for instance,

1992
01:52:47,600 --> 01:52:50,680
Speaker 1: I sawways believe I was I was raised to understand

1993
01:52:50,800 --> 01:52:55,800
Speaker 1: that pine squirrels castrated fox squirrels and gray squirrels, that

1994
01:52:55,840 --> 01:52:59,720
Speaker 1: they beat their nuts off. This though I still think

1995
01:52:59,760 --> 01:53:03,720
Speaker 1: it's true, I no longer know why because the academic

1996
01:53:03,800 --> 01:53:07,200
Speaker 1: community soundly is like, it's not a thing. It's not

1997
01:53:07,360 --> 01:53:10,519
Speaker 1: a thing. It's is not a thing. Okay, what are

1998
01:53:10,560 --> 01:53:16,920
Speaker 1: people doing that just has no backing? Um, well, this

1999
01:53:17,120 --> 01:53:18,920
Speaker 1: is this is the first thing that popped into my mind.

2000
01:53:19,120 --> 01:53:22,200
Speaker 1: It's it's kind of a bit of pet peeves everybody's doing.

2001
01:53:22,280 --> 01:53:24,880
Speaker 1: There's dozens of people doing broadhead testing out there like

2002
01:53:24,960 --> 01:53:28,400
Speaker 1: showing the penetration different broadheads and the shooting ballistic gel

2003
01:53:29,360 --> 01:53:32,559
Speaker 1: and go on. It's it's pretty worthless for I mean,

2004
01:53:32,600 --> 01:53:34,880
Speaker 1: I shoot it too. It's fun to shoot through it

2005
01:53:35,000 --> 01:53:39,680
Speaker 1: and look at it. But ballistics gel um, it's it's

2006
01:53:39,720 --> 01:53:42,240
Speaker 1: so freak. There's so much friction on the chaft stopping it.

2007
01:53:42,360 --> 01:53:44,839
Speaker 1: They'll test tend different broadheads and they'll have a variation

2008
01:53:44,920 --> 01:53:46,679
Speaker 1: of like an inch and they'll pick out a winner

2009
01:53:47,040 --> 01:53:52,200
Speaker 1: from that. And I've seen yeah, and I've seen two

2010
01:53:52,200 --> 01:53:54,240
Speaker 1: different broadheads that I know will have like a three

2011
01:53:54,320 --> 01:53:57,040
Speaker 1: times difference through a through an animal and they'll have

2012
01:53:57,120 --> 01:53:59,639
Speaker 1: the same penetration through ballistics gell. It's cool to look

2013
01:53:59,720 --> 01:54:02,400
Speaker 1: at it, um, and lots of guys are doing it,

2014
01:54:02,560 --> 01:54:05,559
Speaker 1: but it's pretty worthless. But let's explore that for a minute.

2015
01:54:05,600 --> 01:54:08,200
Speaker 1: Let's say I came to you and I was going

2016
01:54:08,240 --> 01:54:10,200
Speaker 1: to do a bow test. I was gonna do a

2017
01:54:10,240 --> 01:54:15,000
Speaker 1: broadhead test. We're just gonna shoot in the blocks of oak. Okay, yeah,

2018
01:54:15,520 --> 01:54:18,360
Speaker 1: and declare a winter. Would you say to yourself, Oh,

2019
01:54:18,360 --> 01:54:21,440
Speaker 1: if that's the case, I'm gonna go design a broadhead

2020
01:54:21,600 --> 01:54:26,080
Speaker 1: really good at shooting through a block of oak, exactly

2021
01:54:26,320 --> 01:54:29,439
Speaker 1: like I know a guy that did concrete block. You know,

2022
01:54:29,560 --> 01:54:33,160
Speaker 1: it was his test, right, that was a medium. Yeah,

2023
01:54:33,320 --> 01:54:36,720
Speaker 1: And I told him, I can design a broadhead's gonna

2024
01:54:36,800 --> 01:54:39,400
Speaker 1: look do perfect for that. It's gonna look like a

2025
01:54:40,040 --> 01:54:41,720
Speaker 1: it's gonna look like this field point right here, you know,

2026
01:54:41,760 --> 01:54:44,040
Speaker 1: a hard and steel field point, and the blades will

2027
01:54:44,040 --> 01:54:46,160
Speaker 1: be set back so they never even hit the concrete,

2028
01:54:46,480 --> 01:54:47,960
Speaker 1: and you're gonna shoot it into there and you're gonna

2029
01:54:48,000 --> 01:54:49,720
Speaker 1: look at it and say, wow, this one didn't get

2030
01:54:49,760 --> 01:54:52,880
Speaker 1: damaged at all. This is the best broadhead. But if

2031
01:54:53,120 --> 01:54:54,760
Speaker 1: you know, a big chunk of steel in the front,

2032
01:54:54,840 --> 01:54:56,920
Speaker 1: big ball of steel, it's not going to be the

2033
01:54:56,960 --> 01:55:00,520
Speaker 1: best for penetrant. You're an animals. So it's so target appendant.

2034
01:55:00,640 --> 01:55:04,360
Speaker 1: And all these broadhead tests out there, maybe not shouldn't

2035
01:55:04,360 --> 01:55:07,080
Speaker 1: say all, but a large number of them are shooting

2036
01:55:07,160 --> 01:55:10,680
Speaker 1: through targets that don't apply to animals at all. You

2037
01:55:10,720 --> 01:55:12,720
Speaker 1: know what. One of the revelatory moment for me, and

2038
01:55:12,760 --> 01:55:16,240
Speaker 1: I still don't understand it is we were calling have

2039
01:55:16,400 --> 01:55:19,840
Speaker 1: Alena one time and they come in like if everything

2040
01:55:19,880 --> 01:55:22,760
Speaker 1: goes right, they come in like hot right, And in

2041
01:55:22,840 --> 01:55:25,720
Speaker 1: the heat of the moment, I accidentally grabbed a field

2042
01:55:25,760 --> 01:55:30,920
Speaker 1: point and shot one with it. And that thing you'd think,

2043
01:55:31,000 --> 01:55:32,360
Speaker 1: if you'd have asked me, I would have thought it

2044
01:55:32,360 --> 01:55:35,920
Speaker 1: would just zip right through it, right, because like, why not?

2045
01:55:36,280 --> 01:55:40,280
Speaker 1: There's no big old thing is trying to drag through it,

2046
01:55:40,400 --> 01:55:42,840
Speaker 1: like you just matched, it's gonna pencil it. That thing

2047
01:55:42,920 --> 01:55:46,120
Speaker 1: didn't do ship to that Hafler. Where'd you hit it?

2048
01:55:46,280 --> 01:55:48,200
Speaker 1: I can't even remember now. I just remember it ran off.

2049
01:55:48,280 --> 01:55:52,920
Speaker 1: You can see the arrow flopping in its side. But

2050
01:55:53,400 --> 01:55:55,480
Speaker 1: why did that not? Does go right? Like I would

2051
01:55:55,480 --> 01:55:57,320
Speaker 1: have thought it would just go right through them because

2052
01:55:57,320 --> 01:55:59,680
Speaker 1: there's no resistance of trying to pass a big broadhead

2053
01:55:59,720 --> 01:56:02,600
Speaker 1: through it. Yeah, I would have. I would have actually

2054
01:56:02,680 --> 01:56:04,960
Speaker 1: thought there's a chance it could go right through man.

2055
01:56:05,080 --> 01:56:09,800
Speaker 1: But it takes a lot of force to penetrate the

2056
01:56:10,480 --> 01:56:11,960
Speaker 1: high I don't know about a havling a hide, but

2057
01:56:12,040 --> 01:56:14,080
Speaker 1: it didn't bounce off. It just didn't. And maybe it

2058
01:56:14,240 --> 01:56:15,920
Speaker 1: was on bone, but I would have been, like my

2059
01:56:16,160 --> 01:56:17,680
Speaker 1: thing was, it would have zipped through it and you

2060
01:56:17,720 --> 01:56:20,080
Speaker 1: wouldn't maybe be hard to find because it wasn't bleeding

2061
01:56:20,200 --> 01:56:21,960
Speaker 1: or something like that. Yeah, I actually would have maybe

2062
01:56:22,000 --> 01:56:25,120
Speaker 1: guessed that too, that like can a field point penetrate

2063
01:56:25,160 --> 01:56:27,360
Speaker 1: to havling it probably, but it doesn't slice much, so

2064
01:56:28,640 --> 01:56:31,000
Speaker 1: not much bleeding and not a not a quick kill.

2065
01:56:31,080 --> 01:56:33,680
Speaker 1: But are you were doing that happen? Ye? I was nearby.

2066
01:56:33,720 --> 01:56:35,400
Speaker 1: I don't know if I was taking right next to you,

2067
01:56:35,520 --> 01:56:38,200
Speaker 1: but we were on the same trip. But you know

2068
01:56:38,320 --> 01:56:41,280
Speaker 1: that cone point really takes a lot of force to

2069
01:56:42,080 --> 01:56:45,960
Speaker 1: penetrate um, to penetrate high. So can you add that

2070
01:56:46,080 --> 01:56:49,160
Speaker 1: to things that you think people do that are stupid? Yeah,

2071
01:56:49,240 --> 01:56:51,800
Speaker 1: that would be up. There'll be up there. I actually

2072
01:56:51,840 --> 01:56:54,640
Speaker 1: had a customer say that he shot his last shot

2073
01:56:54,680 --> 01:56:56,800
Speaker 1: at his elk last year was a field point because

2074
01:56:56,800 --> 01:56:59,920
Speaker 1: that's what he had left and how did it do well?

2075
01:57:00,360 --> 01:57:02,480
Speaker 1: The elk died right then, but I told him it

2076
01:57:02,600 --> 01:57:04,560
Speaker 1: probably died from the other three you know arrows you

2077
01:57:04,640 --> 01:57:08,480
Speaker 1: had in it. It was it was, it was, you know,

2078
01:57:08,560 --> 01:57:09,960
Speaker 1: it was down. It was going to die anyway. But

2079
01:57:10,120 --> 01:57:12,120
Speaker 1: he said that when he shot his last he didn't

2080
01:57:12,120 --> 01:57:14,920
Speaker 1: realize as a field point until after he went over there. Yeah,

2081
01:57:15,000 --> 01:57:17,520
Speaker 1: it's for the heart, So you know that. That helps

2082
01:57:18,080 --> 01:57:21,520
Speaker 1: give me another one. Things you see in the archery

2083
01:57:21,560 --> 01:57:24,960
Speaker 1: community that just do not add up to scientific rigor

2084
01:57:26,400 --> 01:57:33,360
Speaker 1: foc extreme extreme foc. So because there's this whole thing

2085
01:57:33,520 --> 01:57:41,600
Speaker 1: like that the weighted shaft is pushing. No, it's actually pulling. Yeah,

2086
01:57:41,640 --> 01:57:46,800
Speaker 1: So there there's really not much scientific basis for that

2087
01:57:47,000 --> 01:57:51,240
Speaker 1: high or extreme FOC will increase penetration, you know, at

2088
01:57:51,280 --> 01:57:54,520
Speaker 1: least not at the basic level. So so Newton's second

2089
01:57:54,600 --> 01:57:58,240
Speaker 1: law motion four sequels mass times acceleration. As we said,

2090
01:57:59,280 --> 01:58:02,680
Speaker 1: you rearranged the you get force times time equals mass

2091
01:58:02,760 --> 01:58:08,120
Speaker 1: times velocity um. So that's momentum equals force times time.

2092
01:58:08,520 --> 01:58:10,720
Speaker 1: Momentum is a is a vector quantity. So it's in

2093
01:58:10,800 --> 01:58:13,240
Speaker 1: a straight it's in a straight line, has a direction

2094
01:58:13,320 --> 01:58:17,840
Speaker 1: to it. So this is probably the most basic way

2095
01:58:17,880 --> 01:58:21,120
Speaker 1: to calculate, you know, how far with this arrow penetrate

2096
01:58:21,360 --> 01:58:24,560
Speaker 1: through this animal is? What is that momentum at impact

2097
01:58:24,640 --> 01:58:28,600
Speaker 1: it's going to apply this force over time? FOC is

2098
01:58:28,640 --> 01:58:32,200
Speaker 1: not in there. So FOC is like where's the center

2099
01:58:32,240 --> 01:58:36,800
Speaker 1: of mass located in that arrow? And dr Ashby says

2100
01:58:36,840 --> 01:58:44,480
Speaker 1: that going from a nineteen to FOC will increased penetration

2101
01:58:44,560 --> 01:58:50,760
Speaker 1: by Okay, the physics wouldn't say that that's only changing

2102
01:58:50,800 --> 01:58:53,760
Speaker 1: the center of mass an inch forward. Okay, if that

2103
01:58:53,920 --> 01:58:56,320
Speaker 1: arrow is going in a straight line and that mass

2104
01:58:56,440 --> 01:58:59,560
Speaker 1: is all along that axis in a straight line going

2105
01:58:59,640 --> 01:59:04,200
Speaker 1: into the animal foc doesn't even enter into it. Okay,

2106
01:59:05,360 --> 01:59:08,760
Speaker 1: I I think that, you know, with him shooting a

2107
01:59:08,880 --> 01:59:13,120
Speaker 1: long bow, you know, a long bow has this archer's paradox.

2108
01:59:13,200 --> 01:59:15,880
Speaker 1: It's pretty extreme. You know, your your strings going towards

2109
01:59:15,920 --> 01:59:18,680
Speaker 1: the center of the riser, the arrows being mounted off,

2110
01:59:19,040 --> 01:59:21,840
Speaker 1: you know, sitting off to the side getting better arrow flight,

2111
01:59:22,680 --> 01:59:25,040
Speaker 1: and you need and you need a lot of point

2112
01:59:25,080 --> 01:59:27,960
Speaker 1: weight and fairly flexible, fairly low spine to get that

2113
01:59:28,040 --> 01:59:31,160
Speaker 1: thing up bend around the the riser and end up

2114
01:59:31,200 --> 01:59:33,480
Speaker 1: going straight at the targets. So you've got an excessive

2115
01:59:34,160 --> 01:59:37,880
Speaker 1: flexing of that arrow back and forth, and on a

2116
01:59:38,000 --> 01:59:41,480
Speaker 1: long bow, especially fifteen to twenty yard shots, I think

2117
01:59:41,560 --> 01:59:44,440
Speaker 1: bow tuning and arrow flight trumps everything. And I think

2118
01:59:44,480 --> 01:59:46,800
Speaker 1: that was his number two. He said perfect arrow flight,

2119
01:59:47,480 --> 01:59:50,320
Speaker 1: which you never really achieved. I don't think a long bow,

2120
01:59:50,400 --> 01:59:55,240
Speaker 1: but I think he recognized that arrow flights extremely important

2121
01:59:55,320 --> 01:59:58,640
Speaker 1: and it probably and I've talked to other traditional guys

2122
01:59:58,720 --> 02:00:00,720
Speaker 1: that are also scientists and do lot of testing, and

2123
02:00:00,760 --> 02:00:04,560
Speaker 1: they kind of say arrow bow tuning, arrow flight kind

2124
02:00:04,600 --> 02:00:07,320
Speaker 1: of trumps everything. If that arrow is not straight when

2125
02:00:07,360 --> 02:00:12,040
Speaker 1: it impacts, if it's bode way over um or if

2126
02:00:12,040 --> 02:00:15,160
Speaker 1: it's at some angle, it's really going to kill your penetration.

2127
02:00:15,240 --> 02:00:21,000
Speaker 1: That's because that momentum um, that mass times velocity in

2128
02:00:21,080 --> 02:00:23,320
Speaker 1: a straight line is what gives you that force times time.

2129
02:00:23,360 --> 02:00:25,240
Speaker 1: If it's not in a straight line, if it's bode

2130
02:00:25,280 --> 02:00:27,640
Speaker 1: back and forth or off to the side, you know

2131
02:00:27,680 --> 02:00:30,120
Speaker 1: you're you're gonna get very poor penetration. And so the

2132
02:00:31,520 --> 02:00:36,560
Speaker 1: heavy fo C or the FOC arrows are more um

2133
02:00:37,200 --> 02:00:40,800
Speaker 1: might be more forgiving if you have poorly tuned or

2134
02:00:40,920 --> 02:00:45,400
Speaker 1: wobbly arrows, but if it's if your ship straight, it

2135
02:00:45,520 --> 02:00:47,760
Speaker 1: ceases the matter as much. A lot of the times,

2136
02:00:47,840 --> 02:00:50,560
Speaker 1: I think they just correct themselves a lot quicker. You know,

2137
02:00:50,680 --> 02:00:54,600
Speaker 1: once you shoot with those heavy FOC arrows still get

2138
02:00:54,640 --> 02:00:57,400
Speaker 1: like a lot of flex in the shaft, but it's

2139
02:00:57,440 --> 02:01:01,160
Speaker 1: just that heavy gets itself into line. You've that bill. Yeah,

2140
02:01:01,160 --> 02:01:05,080
Speaker 1: I think they restore faster. I think that um there's

2141
02:01:05,120 --> 02:01:08,040
Speaker 1: a higher frequency of that bending back and forth. I

2142
02:01:08,200 --> 02:01:11,839
Speaker 1: think that with more point weight, the fletching gets steered

2143
02:01:12,320 --> 02:01:15,840
Speaker 1: straight or quicker. So I think that extreme high and

2144
02:01:15,920 --> 02:01:19,160
Speaker 1: extreme foc it was all about arrow flight for him,

2145
02:01:19,640 --> 02:01:23,000
Speaker 1: and I don't think so. I don't I think a

2146
02:01:23,080 --> 02:01:25,760
Speaker 1: lot of compound guys are applying it right now. It

2147
02:01:25,840 --> 02:01:28,720
Speaker 1: doesn't it doesn't really apply. Um. I just did some

2148
02:01:28,800 --> 02:01:31,840
Speaker 1: high speed video testing looking at my arrow coming off

2149
02:01:31,920 --> 02:01:36,000
Speaker 1: my bow a few weeks ago, and my my arrow

2150
02:01:36,120 --> 02:01:40,040
Speaker 1: barely flexes with my bows tuned. UM, And by tuned,

2151
02:01:40,080 --> 02:01:43,320
Speaker 1: I mean the knock is pushing, you know, the string

2152
02:01:43,400 --> 02:01:45,480
Speaker 1: is pushing the knock directly in line with the rest,

2153
02:01:45,560 --> 02:01:48,080
Speaker 1: So the arrows coming straight off the bow. It's not

2154
02:01:48,240 --> 02:01:52,320
Speaker 1: fish tailing right left, up or down. There's really minimal flexing,

2155
02:01:52,400 --> 02:01:54,520
Speaker 1: like you can barely see maybe a little bit of

2156
02:01:54,680 --> 02:01:58,200
Speaker 1: vertical flex but really that's interesting. Yeah, I barely see

2157
02:01:58,200 --> 02:02:02,360
Speaker 1: any um and that's why. And I get really good

2158
02:02:02,360 --> 02:02:05,760
Speaker 1: flight if I'm optimally spine, and I tested um a

2159
02:02:05,840 --> 02:02:08,840
Speaker 1: little weak optionally spine and a little overspined, and I

2160
02:02:08,960 --> 02:02:11,560
Speaker 1: was I was seeing kind of barely any flexing, so

2161
02:02:11,720 --> 02:02:15,240
Speaker 1: I was going very straight, you know, say a foot

2162
02:02:15,320 --> 02:02:17,280
Speaker 1: or a couple of feet off of the bow. Then

2163
02:02:17,360 --> 02:02:20,680
Speaker 1: I think FOC has a minimal effect. I think it's

2164
02:02:20,720 --> 02:02:22,840
Speaker 1: just mass time velocity in that straight line that gives

2165
02:02:22,840 --> 02:02:26,600
Speaker 1: you the penetration. And I'd see a ton of people. UM.

2166
02:02:26,840 --> 02:02:29,240
Speaker 1: I have friends that are customer looking at one right now,

2167
02:02:29,440 --> 02:02:32,960
Speaker 1: is Joe foc over here? Joe, I mean I don't

2168
02:02:32,960 --> 02:02:35,560
Speaker 1: think I actually don't think it. I don't think it hurts.

2169
02:02:35,760 --> 02:02:39,280
Speaker 1: I mean I don't think higher mass, higher FOC, you know,

2170
02:02:39,440 --> 02:02:43,440
Speaker 1: hurt anything other than trajectory. Um. And if you're shooting

2171
02:02:44,320 --> 02:02:47,160
Speaker 1: closer um. And I and I tell a lot of

2172
02:02:47,160 --> 02:02:49,440
Speaker 1: people this, you know, if you're if you're shooting closer

2173
02:02:49,600 --> 02:02:51,640
Speaker 1: range and you can get your bow to tune and shoot, well,

2174
02:02:51,880 --> 02:02:54,120
Speaker 1: go for it. The issue I see with it, and

2175
02:02:54,160 --> 02:02:56,720
Speaker 1: I know a number of customarial builders they'll have a

2176
02:02:56,760 --> 02:02:59,960
Speaker 1: customer come to them and say I gotta have twenty

2177
02:03:00,040 --> 02:03:04,880
Speaker 1: percent FOC and they'll say, well, um, I can get

2178
02:03:04,920 --> 02:03:07,240
Speaker 1: you there, but you're gonna be underspined, you know, really

2179
02:03:07,280 --> 02:03:09,160
Speaker 1: with your arrow and bow set up to get that high,

2180
02:03:09,200 --> 02:03:10,920
Speaker 1: I'm gonna have to put more point weight. We can't

2181
02:03:10,920 --> 02:03:14,320
Speaker 1: get an narrow spine, you know, because they don't make

2182
02:03:14,960 --> 02:03:18,560
Speaker 1: aero spines heavy enough to handle that. Right. Yeah, It's

2183
02:03:18,600 --> 02:03:22,400
Speaker 1: hard for me with a thirty straw to get foc.

2184
02:03:22,520 --> 02:03:24,520
Speaker 1: I've gotta have a lot of mass up there, and

2185
02:03:24,560 --> 02:03:26,840
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be probably underspined. And I see a lot

2186
02:03:26,880 --> 02:03:30,320
Speaker 1: of guys that choose the mass and the high foc

2187
02:03:31,320 --> 02:03:34,080
Speaker 1: over ero flight, and that's that's a big mistake, I think,

2188
02:03:34,280 --> 02:03:36,840
Speaker 1: and that's that's why I'd like people to to quit

2189
02:03:36,960 --> 02:03:39,520
Speaker 1: doing UM if you can get it all to work out,

2190
02:03:39,640 --> 02:03:42,160
Speaker 1: if you can get high mass, high foc and like

2191
02:03:42,280 --> 02:03:46,400
Speaker 1: perfect ero flight UM. And I think the best test

2192
02:03:46,480 --> 02:03:49,560
Speaker 1: for this for people out there, I mean a tune

2193
02:03:49,600 --> 02:03:52,000
Speaker 1: bow and an arrow, which means your arrows coming straight

2194
02:03:52,040 --> 02:03:56,400
Speaker 1: off your bow is really important for fixed broadheads to

2195
02:03:56,440 --> 02:03:59,760
Speaker 1: fly well and penetration. And the test I like to

2196
02:03:59,800 --> 02:04:02,960
Speaker 1: do is shoot a bear shaft. We can shoot through paper,

2197
02:04:03,440 --> 02:04:05,520
Speaker 1: you know, ten twelve feet or something. That's a that's

2198
02:04:05,560 --> 02:04:09,000
Speaker 1: a decent test, but say shoot at twenty to thirty

2199
02:04:09,080 --> 02:04:12,120
Speaker 1: yards with a bear shaft and a flat shaft. And

2200
02:04:12,160 --> 02:04:14,520
Speaker 1: I like to just take one of my arrows, cut

2201
02:04:14,600 --> 02:04:18,160
Speaker 1: the veins off so there, you know, eighth answer very short,

2202
02:04:18,240 --> 02:04:19,960
Speaker 1: so there's no really no vein to it. Maybe even

2203
02:04:20,000 --> 02:04:23,080
Speaker 1: wrap a piece of metal duct tape on it to

2204
02:04:23,120 --> 02:04:25,080
Speaker 1: get the weight the same in the back, you know,

2205
02:04:25,160 --> 02:04:27,360
Speaker 1: within within say five to ten grains, so it's going

2206
02:04:27,400 --> 02:04:30,200
Speaker 1: to act the same. And shoot those two together at

2207
02:04:30,680 --> 02:04:34,040
Speaker 1: at twenty yards and then maybe thirty yards what you'll

2208
02:04:34,040 --> 02:04:37,080
Speaker 1: see is, for instance, I'll take my bow out of

2209
02:04:37,120 --> 02:04:40,280
Speaker 1: tune to test test veins and how well they stabilize.

2210
02:04:40,880 --> 02:04:43,280
Speaker 1: And what I see is um if you're out of tune,

2211
02:04:43,920 --> 02:04:46,400
Speaker 1: if your arrows say tail right coming out of the bow,

2212
02:04:47,400 --> 02:04:50,880
Speaker 1: well you're you're fletched arrow might hit the bull's eye

2213
02:04:50,920 --> 02:04:53,280
Speaker 1: because even though it's going to tail right, the veins

2214
02:04:53,400 --> 02:04:56,720
Speaker 1: quickly correct it and straighten it out. Well, a bear

2215
02:04:56,800 --> 02:04:59,200
Speaker 1: shaft doesn't get corrected, so it stays a little tail

2216
02:04:59,280 --> 02:05:02,480
Speaker 1: right and it'll hit left, and you know, it will

2217
02:05:02,560 --> 02:05:05,960
Speaker 1: reveal the It'll show you that this arrow not coming

2218
02:05:06,040 --> 02:05:08,560
Speaker 1: straight out of the bow. And you know I was.

2219
02:05:09,320 --> 02:05:12,160
Speaker 1: I adjusted it until I was getting that bear shaft

2220
02:05:12,240 --> 02:05:14,520
Speaker 1: to hit a foot left at you know, forty yards.

2221
02:05:14,720 --> 02:05:17,440
Speaker 1: And then I was looking at different veins and different

2222
02:05:17,480 --> 02:05:21,600
Speaker 1: broadheads to see, like, which veins stabilized broadheads the best.

2223
02:05:22,760 --> 02:05:24,120
Speaker 1: You know, even though I was getting a bear shaft

2224
02:05:24,160 --> 02:05:26,680
Speaker 1: to hit a foot over with the right veins and

2225
02:05:26,800 --> 02:05:32,240
Speaker 1: are say, are r broadhead something that's relatively compact with

2226
02:05:32,360 --> 02:05:34,800
Speaker 1: the right veins, I could get field points and broadheads

2227
02:05:34,840 --> 02:05:37,240
Speaker 1: is still hit within a couple of inches at forty yards,

2228
02:05:37,360 --> 02:05:43,760
Speaker 1: But the bigger, wider broadheads you have, the more unstable

2229
02:05:43,800 --> 02:05:45,760
Speaker 1: it is or the more you need to correct it.

2230
02:05:45,920 --> 02:05:50,400
Speaker 1: And then those might be hitting five six inches well,

2231
02:05:50,520 --> 02:05:52,840
Speaker 1: five six inches off with small veins, but then if

2232
02:05:52,880 --> 02:05:55,640
Speaker 1: you had a taller, higher profile vein, I could pull

2233
02:05:55,680 --> 02:05:58,520
Speaker 1: those back into maybe a couple inches as well. So

2234
02:05:59,120 --> 02:06:01,200
Speaker 1: that's another area that I'm spending more time on and

2235
02:06:01,240 --> 02:06:04,720
Speaker 1: I think is really important is educating people on how

2236
02:06:04,760 --> 02:06:08,080
Speaker 1: to get fixed blade bride haas to fly well for him, um,

2237
02:06:08,880 --> 02:06:11,480
Speaker 1: because I think that's keeping some people, you know, shooting

2238
02:06:11,520 --> 02:06:15,000
Speaker 1: mechanicals because they can't get fixed has a shoe well

2239
02:06:15,080 --> 02:06:17,040
Speaker 1: for him. And they've yeah, they've made it so easy.

2240
02:06:17,080 --> 02:06:19,720
Speaker 1: And that's a big story that they used to sell those, right,

2241
02:06:19,960 --> 02:06:23,080
Speaker 1: is that those smaller heads they're easy to They shoot

2242
02:06:23,160 --> 02:06:26,400
Speaker 1: just like your field you Right, if you can't get

2243
02:06:26,760 --> 02:06:29,560
Speaker 1: if you can't get a relatively compact fixed blade head

2244
02:06:29,760 --> 02:06:32,600
Speaker 1: to shoot well for you, there's something wrong with your

2245
02:06:32,720 --> 02:06:34,800
Speaker 1: arrow flight. Yeah, your bows out of tune. Yeah, your

2246
02:06:34,840 --> 02:06:37,400
Speaker 1: bows out of tune. And even though the mechanical is

2247
02:06:37,760 --> 02:06:39,600
Speaker 1: going to hit closer to the field point, and that's

2248
02:06:39,680 --> 02:06:42,120
Speaker 1: kind of the tradeoff, you know, they're more forgiving, they're

2249
02:06:42,120 --> 02:06:44,320
Speaker 1: gonna hit closer to field points. You're both still awed,

2250
02:06:44,520 --> 02:06:46,480
Speaker 1: You're both still on t and your arrow And it

2251
02:06:46,560 --> 02:06:48,360
Speaker 1: might not just when we say bows out of tune.

2252
02:06:48,360 --> 02:06:51,160
Speaker 1: It might not just be that your bows not pushing

2253
02:06:51,240 --> 02:06:53,360
Speaker 1: your arrows straight. It could also be that you have

2254
02:06:53,480 --> 02:06:57,960
Speaker 1: the wrong arrow. You could be underspined. Yeah, yeah, real quick,

2255
02:06:58,600 --> 02:07:01,000
Speaker 1: this last question, we gotta wrap it up. Oh well,

2256
02:07:04,880 --> 02:07:06,880
Speaker 1: when I was like researching a bunch of this FOC

2257
02:07:07,080 --> 02:07:08,800
Speaker 1: stuff and trying to figure out what I wanted in

2258
02:07:08,880 --> 02:07:12,680
Speaker 1: my arrow set up, I kept running into that penetration

2259
02:07:12,760 --> 02:07:15,680
Speaker 1: penetration like over and over again, but nobody really justified why.

2260
02:07:15,800 --> 02:07:18,360
Speaker 1: But then I saw one article that was like, well,

2261
02:07:19,160 --> 02:07:22,560
Speaker 1: if you have a higher FOC, that means that you

2262
02:07:22,680 --> 02:07:25,400
Speaker 1: can shoot a stiffer spine because it will be able

2263
02:07:25,440 --> 02:07:27,440
Speaker 1: to like kind of break down that spine as it

2264
02:07:27,520 --> 02:07:30,360
Speaker 1: goes down range, just like that flex in it. But

2265
02:07:30,480 --> 02:07:35,640
Speaker 1: once it impacts, that stiffer spine will have all that

2266
02:07:35,840 --> 02:07:38,360
Speaker 1: energy like directly behind it, like so it won't like

2267
02:07:38,680 --> 02:07:41,440
Speaker 1: dissipate by wiggling a whole bunch once it comes in

2268
02:07:41,520 --> 02:07:44,280
Speaker 1: contact with the target. That was the only thing that

2269
02:07:44,360 --> 02:07:47,280
Speaker 1: I've ever seen that I was like, Okay, I think

2270
02:07:47,360 --> 02:07:50,600
Speaker 1: that like FOC and penetration makes a little bit of sense,

2271
02:07:50,840 --> 02:07:52,520
Speaker 1: but it seems like you don't think that, and I'm

2272
02:07:52,840 --> 02:07:56,800
Speaker 1: more inclined to defer to you there. I'm just wondering, Well, Um,

2273
02:07:57,800 --> 02:07:59,560
Speaker 1: the thing I like about FOC and I kind of

2274
02:07:59,600 --> 02:08:01,640
Speaker 1: like that wall up to sixteen percent range, is it

2275
02:08:01,880 --> 02:08:05,480
Speaker 1: is improved stability because it the center mass is kind

2276
02:08:05,520 --> 02:08:08,000
Speaker 1: of the pivot point. When you have let's say your

2277
02:08:08,080 --> 02:08:10,720
Speaker 1: arrow comes off a little bit um say tail low,

2278
02:08:11,200 --> 02:08:13,720
Speaker 1: and you've got this wind wind across the broad head

2279
02:08:13,920 --> 02:08:16,320
Speaker 1: that's going to create a little bit lift, and you've

2280
02:08:16,400 --> 02:08:18,960
Speaker 1: got this this wind across the veins that are gonna

2281
02:08:19,240 --> 02:08:22,800
Speaker 1: apply this restoring force, and the pivot points the center mass.

2282
02:08:23,200 --> 02:08:25,360
Speaker 1: So as you move that forward, you get more you know,

2283
02:08:25,440 --> 02:08:28,040
Speaker 1: you get better stability because the veins have a longer

2284
02:08:28,120 --> 02:08:33,080
Speaker 1: level arm and better UM. I think if you take

2285
02:08:33,120 --> 02:08:35,440
Speaker 1: that to an extreme, if you have low FOC to

2286
02:08:35,520 --> 02:08:37,200
Speaker 1: where you have a bunch of mass on the back,

2287
02:08:37,840 --> 02:08:39,960
Speaker 1: then I can see an issue that when you impact

2288
02:08:40,120 --> 02:08:43,200
Speaker 1: something that mass at the back, that arrow cann act

2289
02:08:43,680 --> 02:08:46,000
Speaker 1: you know more like more like a spring or or

2290
02:08:46,040 --> 02:08:48,240
Speaker 1: if it's not perfectly centered, that mass can pull it

2291
02:08:48,320 --> 02:08:51,200
Speaker 1: off to the side. Um. So I think there can

2292
02:08:51,240 --> 02:08:53,360
Speaker 1: be something a little bit to that, but I don't

2293
02:08:53,440 --> 02:08:56,680
Speaker 1: think you know, changing that center mass point by by

2294
02:08:56,760 --> 02:08:59,080
Speaker 1: a half inch or an inch, that's that's what we're

2295
02:08:59,080 --> 02:09:01,880
Speaker 1: really talking about as that big of an effect. Yeah,

2296
02:09:02,040 --> 02:09:04,280
Speaker 1: I was saying word because like you and you're able

2297
02:09:04,360 --> 02:09:07,440
Speaker 1: to increase the spine when it hits like you would

2298
02:09:07,480 --> 02:09:10,280
Speaker 1: have everything just piling up sort of behind that rather

2299
02:09:10,400 --> 02:09:13,800
Speaker 1: than like a low or a high flex sort of

2300
02:09:13,840 --> 02:09:15,960
Speaker 1: spine like a four hundred spine or something. Where it

2301
02:09:16,040 --> 02:09:18,160
Speaker 1: hits it, it's gonna go like a doorstop kind of

2302
02:09:18,240 --> 02:09:22,520
Speaker 1: before it goes in. Yeah, I think, yeah, you know,

2303
02:09:22,520 --> 02:09:24,320
Speaker 1: all comes down to that keeping the momentum in the

2304
02:09:24,360 --> 02:09:27,200
Speaker 1: straight line. So if you have if your arrow is

2305
02:09:27,200 --> 02:09:30,720
Speaker 1: going straight at impact, you've got that more mass up

2306
02:09:30,760 --> 02:09:33,600
Speaker 1: front um, it's going to be better than more mass

2307
02:09:33,640 --> 02:09:36,200
Speaker 1: at the back, because I was say, it's probably gonna

2308
02:09:36,200 --> 02:09:38,320
Speaker 1: be more likely to stay in that straight line versus

2309
02:09:38,360 --> 02:09:41,320
Speaker 1: having mass at the back that might that might take

2310
02:09:41,360 --> 02:09:44,080
Speaker 1: it off course a little bit. That's how I would

2311
02:09:44,120 --> 02:09:46,120
Speaker 1: look at it. Okay, I got three more questions. Are

2312
02:09:46,160 --> 02:09:48,880
Speaker 1: you playing trivia with us if you want me to,

2313
02:09:49,040 --> 02:09:52,160
Speaker 1: because there's one question too, how do you think you'll do?

2314
02:09:53,800 --> 02:09:57,920
Speaker 1: Probably not, well, don't He'll throw your bone. I'll suarantee

2315
02:09:58,080 --> 02:10:01,240
Speaker 1: he'll throw your bone. Never do not me the guy

2316
02:10:01,320 --> 02:10:04,120
Speaker 1: that hosts Spencer, he'll throw you out like a mechanical

2317
02:10:04,200 --> 02:10:06,720
Speaker 1: engineering question. But he won't do anything like that for me.

2318
02:10:08,280 --> 02:10:09,760
Speaker 1: Third questions, how do people find? You know? How do

2319
02:10:09,840 --> 02:10:12,200
Speaker 1: people find so they can check out? You don't advertise

2320
02:10:12,240 --> 02:10:13,320
Speaker 1: the whole hell of a lot. You're most like a

2321
02:10:13,360 --> 02:10:16,440
Speaker 1: word of mouth kind of thing. We've been a lot

2322
02:10:16,520 --> 02:10:18,600
Speaker 1: of word of mouth. Yeah, we don't do spend a

2323
02:10:18,600 --> 02:10:22,879
Speaker 1: lot on marketing. Um, spend most of the time on engineering,

2324
02:10:23,440 --> 02:10:26,680
Speaker 1: but um, iron Wall Outfitters is our website, iron Well

2325
02:10:26,680 --> 02:10:29,760
Speaker 1: off Fitters dot com. We're on Instagram, Facebook, things like

2326
02:10:29,840 --> 02:10:33,840
Speaker 1: that too. YouTube channel, Oh yeah, okay, yeah, we're trying

2327
02:10:33,880 --> 02:10:35,560
Speaker 1: to show I need to get on here to find

2328
02:10:35,560 --> 02:10:37,080
Speaker 1: out how to sharp my broadheads. You said you got

2329
02:10:37,120 --> 02:10:38,800
Speaker 1: a good video about it. We do have a video

2330
02:10:38,840 --> 02:10:40,560
Speaker 1: on there. Yeah. And I'm gonna try and do more

2331
02:10:40,800 --> 02:10:44,280
Speaker 1: this next year to kind of educate you know, the

2332
02:10:44,360 --> 02:10:47,480
Speaker 1: science of bow hunting and try and um, yeah, get

2333
02:10:47,520 --> 02:10:51,120
Speaker 1: more knowledge there. That's great. Yeah, all right, trying to

2334
02:10:51,120 --> 02:10:52,400
Speaker 1: think how you can do in trivia? What do you

2335
02:10:52,440 --> 02:10:54,840
Speaker 1: think I can't believe you're not gonna let us talk

2336
02:10:54,840 --> 02:10:58,720
Speaker 1: about single bevel like I want to spend like one

2337
02:11:00,000 --> 02:11:01,640
Speaker 1: spend a minute on it, one minute, ask you a question,

2338
02:11:01,800 --> 02:11:06,360
Speaker 1: you know, five minutes talk Phil. I'm not even gonna

2339
02:11:06,400 --> 02:11:10,200
Speaker 1: look at Phil right now. I wouldn't. Okay, let's go,

2340
02:11:11,280 --> 02:11:16,720
Speaker 1: let's do it. I don't have you make both offitters,

2341
02:11:16,760 --> 02:11:21,120
Speaker 1: make single bevel and double bevel broadheads. Yeah, maybe just

2342
02:11:21,200 --> 02:11:24,280
Speaker 1: a quick rundown pros and cons. Yeah, so I don't

2343
02:11:24,320 --> 02:11:26,320
Speaker 1: care which which one you want to pick. I I've

2344
02:11:26,360 --> 02:11:28,040
Speaker 1: got a I've got a dog in both fights. So

2345
02:11:28,240 --> 02:11:32,200
Speaker 1: it's it's um. This is just my personal um testing

2346
02:11:32,280 --> 02:11:35,320
Speaker 1: and what I've found, you know, initially like double bevel better.

2347
02:11:35,520 --> 02:11:41,040
Speaker 1: I feel like it's inherently a bit stronger UM. That

2348
02:11:41,200 --> 02:11:46,080
Speaker 1: combination of sharpness and strength is a bit higher there

2349
02:11:46,080 --> 02:11:48,080
Speaker 1: because you have equal pressure on both sides and it's

2350
02:11:48,200 --> 02:11:51,840
Speaker 1: driving through something. And what I saw with single bevel,

2351
02:11:51,920 --> 02:11:54,520
Speaker 1: with all that pressure on one side one bevel, you're

2352
02:11:54,560 --> 02:11:56,800
Speaker 1: more likely to want to bend that edge or break

2353
02:11:56,880 --> 02:12:01,320
Speaker 1: out that edge. And I've seen have personal experience that

2354
02:12:01,560 --> 02:12:04,680
Speaker 1: corroborates that, and I've talked to people that shoot a

2355
02:12:04,680 --> 02:12:06,640
Speaker 1: lot of single bevels and that is a known thing

2356
02:12:06,760 --> 02:12:09,520
Speaker 1: and nobody because you're getting full pass these A lot

2357
02:12:09,560 --> 02:12:11,320
Speaker 1: of times you don't know if it's happening in the animal,

2358
02:12:11,320 --> 02:12:14,040
Speaker 1: if it's happening in the dirt, but you see a

2359
02:12:14,120 --> 02:12:15,760
Speaker 1: lot of times. It's interesting too that it's only on

2360
02:12:15,920 --> 02:12:18,840
Speaker 1: one of the two blades, but you have some very

2361
02:12:18,960 --> 02:12:23,880
Speaker 1: like extreme waving, nous corruption whatever you want to chinking

2362
02:12:24,000 --> 02:12:27,200
Speaker 1: or chipping out edge or just bending right. And I

2363
02:12:27,280 --> 02:12:28,640
Speaker 1: saw that and that's why I was more of a

2364
02:12:28,680 --> 02:12:31,840
Speaker 1: double bebel guy for years UM and it was really

2365
02:12:31,920 --> 02:12:34,520
Speaker 1: through a lot of customers asking pushing forward that a

2366
02:12:34,560 --> 02:12:37,200
Speaker 1: couple of years ago I started. I started thinking, well,

2367
02:12:37,200 --> 02:12:40,800
Speaker 1: I've only tested other single bevels, you know against my

2368
02:12:40,920 --> 02:12:43,160
Speaker 1: broadhead that's got a better steel, better sharpness, so I

2369
02:12:43,240 --> 02:12:45,600
Speaker 1: really should make one the best I can and test it.

2370
02:12:46,240 --> 02:12:48,120
Speaker 1: And I still saw the issue when I was done

2371
02:12:48,160 --> 02:12:50,400
Speaker 1: at twenty five degrees, and I talked to dr Ashby

2372
02:12:50,440 --> 02:12:53,480
Speaker 1: actually got his input on single bebel designs, and he like,

2373
02:12:53,680 --> 02:12:57,640
Speaker 1: he likes single bevel um at five degrees, and I

2374
02:12:57,720 --> 02:12:59,640
Speaker 1: feel like, I feel like some of us testing was

2375
02:13:00,040 --> 02:13:03,120
Speaker 1: found it. He had a shallower total angle as well

2376
02:13:03,200 --> 02:13:05,760
Speaker 1: as a single bevel, so it was a bit sharper too.

2377
02:13:06,160 --> 02:13:10,640
Speaker 1: But anyways, I found that hive degree single bevel wasn't

2378
02:13:10,640 --> 02:13:14,000
Speaker 1: as strong as our nineteen degree per side or thirty

2379
02:13:14,040 --> 02:13:15,920
Speaker 1: eight degree total double bevel, and I had to go

2380
02:13:16,040 --> 02:13:17,760
Speaker 1: up to thirty two degrees until I got to the

2381
02:13:17,800 --> 02:13:20,800
Speaker 1: point where it, um, it wasn't getting damaged on just

2382
02:13:20,920 --> 02:13:25,240
Speaker 1: heavy bone impact. Um. The cool thing about it is

2383
02:13:25,480 --> 02:13:30,480
Speaker 1: they create rotation. So if you as they impact that animal,

2384
02:13:30,600 --> 02:13:32,920
Speaker 1: let's say you your right flesh and your arrows rotating

2385
02:13:33,040 --> 02:13:36,560
Speaker 1: right when you hit that animal with the pressure on

2386
02:13:36,640 --> 02:13:39,160
Speaker 1: that bevel is gonna push when to push that bevel over.

2387
02:13:39,760 --> 02:13:41,800
Speaker 1: So let's say your top one gets pushed right in,

2388
02:13:41,840 --> 02:13:43,600
Speaker 1: your bottom one gets pushed left, and it's going to

2389
02:13:43,760 --> 02:13:47,920
Speaker 1: rotate or continue that rotation through the animals. So what

2390
02:13:48,000 --> 02:13:50,640
Speaker 1: does that makes sense? Steve? I don't know if that's

2391
02:13:50,640 --> 02:13:53,920
Speaker 1: good or bad. Why single bevel rotates through the medium?

2392
02:13:54,120 --> 02:13:56,040
Speaker 1: I mean, try it. If you got a single bevel knife,

2393
02:13:56,080 --> 02:13:57,600
Speaker 1: try to cut a piece of cheese street and you're

2394
02:13:57,600 --> 02:14:01,320
Speaker 1: gonna drive a positive or negative. Well, I've kind of

2395
02:14:01,440 --> 02:14:03,320
Speaker 1: felt it was a negative because it's going to take

2396
02:14:03,360 --> 02:14:09,000
Speaker 1: more energy, It's not gonna slice through the path is longer, right, right. Um,

2397
02:14:09,880 --> 02:14:12,760
Speaker 1: what I what I find is that the positives are

2398
02:14:13,080 --> 02:14:16,000
Speaker 1: is that what the hole looks like, you know, the

2399
02:14:16,320 --> 02:14:19,040
Speaker 1: entrance hole, especially with our so I make a single

2400
02:14:19,080 --> 02:14:21,240
Speaker 1: balble with single bubble bleeders, so the bleaders have that

2401
02:14:21,320 --> 02:14:23,560
Speaker 1: ground on that single balbble ground on them too. In

2402
02:14:23,640 --> 02:14:26,120
Speaker 1: that rotation, I often get holes through the high that

2403
02:14:26,160 --> 02:14:30,400
Speaker 1: looked like a square versus um are double bobble. It's

2404
02:14:30,440 --> 02:14:32,680
Speaker 1: more like a you know, a T shape or cross

2405
02:14:32,720 --> 02:14:36,480
Speaker 1: shape because it's just slicing straight in, whereas that cutting

2406
02:14:36,520 --> 02:14:41,440
Speaker 1: while rotating. So I think the advantages um are that

2407
02:14:41,640 --> 02:14:43,560
Speaker 1: the holes can be a bit more open and maybe

2408
02:14:43,600 --> 02:14:46,840
Speaker 1: a bit more trauma, you know, as it's cutting through things.

2409
02:14:47,600 --> 02:14:49,920
Speaker 1: I feel like the momentum, that rotational momentum of the

2410
02:14:50,080 --> 02:14:53,440
Speaker 1: arrow already at impact provides some of that maybe additional

2411
02:14:53,560 --> 02:14:56,000
Speaker 1: energy it takes to rotate. So you know, I shot

2412
02:14:56,040 --> 02:14:57,800
Speaker 1: my elk with a single bubble last year had great,

2413
02:14:58,040 --> 02:15:01,800
Speaker 1: great penetration. Um. What I'm seeing is they both penetrate

2414
02:15:01,880 --> 02:15:05,960
Speaker 1: really well, they both perform really well, they both breach,

2415
02:15:06,120 --> 02:15:09,400
Speaker 1: they both split bone really well. And that's something dr

2416
02:15:09,480 --> 02:15:13,480
Speaker 1: Ashby said, is that only single bevel um splits bone. Well,

2417
02:15:14,400 --> 02:15:16,400
Speaker 1: maybe it's because we are at a different energy level.

2418
02:15:16,520 --> 02:15:18,880
Speaker 1: But I see that they both are really pop bone

2419
02:15:18,920 --> 02:15:23,160
Speaker 1: and split bone apart, really kind of equally well, so performances,

2420
02:15:23,720 --> 02:15:28,400
Speaker 1: amount of force you're saying, yeah, very similar. Um Anyway,

2421
02:15:28,480 --> 02:15:30,560
Speaker 1: I I think they both worked well. I think what's

2422
02:15:30,560 --> 02:15:36,520
Speaker 1: more important is having hard, very sharp edges, good edge retension,

2423
02:15:36,680 --> 02:15:39,720
Speaker 1: and have the blades tough enough to be able to

2424
02:15:39,800 --> 02:15:43,840
Speaker 1: hit bone and keep going. Thank you for that, Phil,

2425
02:15:43,920 --> 02:15:46,520
Speaker 1: Thank you for giving me those extra few minutes was

2426
02:15:47,240 --> 02:15:54,440
Speaker 1: my pleasure. Definitely my call. Alright, Iron Will Outfitters. Yes,

2427
02:15:55,280 --> 02:15:57,400
Speaker 1: go check out the Broadheads. Check them out. I need

2428
02:15:57,440 --> 02:15:59,560
Speaker 1: to show you the bore who I shot through the

2429
02:15:59,600 --> 02:16:01,400
Speaker 1: forehead phone of your broadheads. You might like the hole

2430
02:16:01,440 --> 02:16:06,440
Speaker 1: in there? Did you? Was that in self defense? Okay? No,

2431
02:16:07,080 --> 02:16:08,800
Speaker 1: you said it was coming back at you, so no, no, No,

2432
02:16:08,960 --> 02:16:11,840
Speaker 1: he was after I shot a prig prior and that

2433
02:16:11,960 --> 02:16:15,040
Speaker 1: pig was raising a ruckus in it called in the board.

2434
02:16:15,720 --> 02:16:18,800
Speaker 1: I've seen that before. Yeah, he was real worked up.

2435
02:16:19,680 --> 02:16:24,240
Speaker 1: He liked what he was hearing. All right, let's move on.

2436
02:16:25,080 --> 02:16:26,600
Speaker 1: Let's let's turn it off so that I can just

2437
02:16:26,640 --> 02:16:33,280
Speaker 1: ask him some off air questions. You feel like you

2438
02:16:33,320 --> 02:16:36,800
Speaker 1: feel like sticking around good night, everybody you feel like

2439
02:16:36,840 --> 02:16:41,320
Speaker 1: stick around. Phil will continue to record the conversation. Thanks

2440
02:16:41,520 --> 02:16:46,160
Speaker 1: are using a jake too and then on sand paper

2441
02:16:46,800 --> 02:16:49,760
Speaker 1: or I just retained really well so you can shoot.

2442
02:16:50,200 --> 02:16:53,120
Speaker 1: If you shoot ten times in a target, I can't

2443
02:16:53,120 --> 02:16:55,880
Speaker 1: even measure it difference. So he really a lot of

2444
02:16:55,959 --> 02:16:59,160
Speaker 1: times target shooting. Right now, I'll just take a white

2445
02:17:00,160 --> 02:17:02,840
Speaker 1: plas don't white as true.