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Speaker 1: But this episode of News World. In the first half

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Speaker 1: of nineteen ninety three, before I was mayor, there was

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Speaker 1: sixty seven murders in East New York this year. In

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Speaker 1: the first half they were fourteen, fourteen too many. Here

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Speaker 1: in Harlem, in the first half of nineteen ninety three,

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Speaker 1: there were twenty seven murders. This year, there were only five,

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Speaker 1: And there hasn't been a significant drop in crime, even

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Speaker 1: more significant in the minority neighborhoods than in the rest

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Speaker 1: of the city. That comes about because the police and

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Speaker 1: communities most often work together. Based on the suggestions of

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Speaker 1: the Caucus, based on the work of the task Force,

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Speaker 1: that we will be moving funding from the NYPD two

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Speaker 1: youth initiatives and social services. I want people to understand

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Speaker 1: that we are committed to shifting resources to ensure that

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Speaker 1: the focus is on our young people. But I think

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Speaker 1: the systematic, I think overtly racist use of stopping the

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Speaker 1: FISCO is an abject failure. Hi, this is new due

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Speaker 1: to the virus. I'm recording home, so you may notice

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Speaker 1: a difference in audio quality or this episode of news World.

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Speaker 1: How do we clean up our cities from the crime

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Speaker 1: and chaos that has taken over the streets. There are

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Speaker 1: very few leaders who have really turned cities around and

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Speaker 1: made them safe. While he was mayor, New York used

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Speaker 1: a focused form of policing, including applying the broken Windows

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Speaker 1: strategy and launching a new crime tracking system called CompStat.

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Speaker 1: The result was almost half of New York's crime dropped

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Speaker 1: in the nineteen nineties and has continuing drop in crime

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Speaker 1: rates throughout the two thousands has resulted from this innovated

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Speaker 1: police not until Mayor du Blasio began to go away

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Speaker 1: from this to crime start back up. Now New York

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Speaker 1: City and other cities around the nation are seeing an

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Speaker 1: upticket crime and in violent shootings. How can we begin

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Speaker 1: to bring law in order back to our cities. I'm

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Speaker 1: pleased to welcome my guests and my good friend, Mayor

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Speaker 1: Rudy Giuliani. He served as the US Attorney for the

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Speaker 1: Southern District of New York from nineteen eighty three to

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Speaker 1: nineteen eighty nine. Gunn was elected mayor of New York

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Speaker 1: City from nineteen ninety four to two thousand and one.

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Speaker 1: He's been called America's mayor for his leadership through the

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Speaker 1: September eleven, two thousand and one attacks and was named

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Speaker 1: Time Magazines Person of the Year in two thousand and one.

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Speaker 1: I've known Rudy Giuliani for a long time. He gained

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Speaker 1: a national reputation for crime fighting success as New York's mayor,

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Speaker 1: and of course for most of us, he became really

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Speaker 1: a national figure because of his leadership after the nine

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Speaker 1: eleven attacks in New York. During his mariti from nineteen

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Speaker 1: ninety four to two thousand and one, crime statistics declined significantly.

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Speaker 1: And in fact, so you go back and look at

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Speaker 1: pictures of Times Square just before Rooty gets elected, and

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Speaker 1: let look at pictures of Times Square years later. It's

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Speaker 1: amazing how much the city had become safer, cleaner, more tourists,

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Speaker 1: more people all twenty four hours a day. People felt

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Speaker 1: more comfortable wandering around. And the program he instituted and

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Speaker 1: his book on leadership really explained this brilliantly. But his

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Speaker 1: CompStat program gave the police Department of the ability to

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Speaker 1: figure out where crime was occurring and to try to

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Speaker 1: get ahead of it, not just to solve it, but

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Speaker 1: to preempt it. So let me say, first of all,

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Speaker 1: mister Mayor, I'm thrilled that year here, and I'm curiously

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Speaker 1: you must almost tell a sense of deja view watching

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Speaker 1: the crime rates going back up, watching cities the dumbest

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Speaker 1: possible policies. It's as though the current situation they're repudiating

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Speaker 1: all of the sound principles you applied and recreating the

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Speaker 1: disaster that was there before you became mayor what's your

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Speaker 1: reaction to what you're watching? I guess I had to

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Speaker 1: begin with the fact, being a New Yorker in all

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Speaker 1: my life, I'm heartbroken because it's something that I live through.

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Speaker 1: A list of the earlier one it started under John

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Speaker 1: Lindsay believe it or out of the nineteen sixties or

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Speaker 1: early seventies, and it lasted it's the nineteen ninety four.

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Speaker 1: So I have a feeling that if we don't get

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Speaker 1: control of this, this becomes a long lasting process, it

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Speaker 1: just gets worse and worse and worse and worse. It's

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Speaker 1: sort of the opposite of the broken windows theory, right.

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Speaker 1: The broken windows theory works at the bottom, teaches people

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Speaker 1: respectful more in order, you're also arrested dangerous criminals. At

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Speaker 1: the same time, and over a two year period, three

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Speaker 1: year period, you can see crime come down. Now, what

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Speaker 1: they're doing is they're basically saying that everyone breaks the

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Speaker 1: law and nothing will happen to you do not respect

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Speaker 1: the police. In some ways, it's worse than the sixties

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Speaker 1: and the seventies and the eighties. Even with those terrible

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Speaker 1: riots we had back then, you wouldn't see somebody slapping

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Speaker 1: a police office or smitting at a police officer. The

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Speaker 1: cops is still feared in the right way, and they

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Speaker 1: could break up a riot eventually. Now it's as if

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Speaker 1: the police are you and me. I mean, they can

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Speaker 1: just slap them around, push them around. How many times

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Speaker 1: did you see a store looted and police officers were

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Speaker 1: watching in New York and Chicago and Saint Louis. And

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Speaker 1: that gives license to every one of the other criminals

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Speaker 1: that's thinking about looting, stealing, robbing, raping, shooting their other

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Speaker 1: gang member. It basically gives them permission go ahead and

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Speaker 1: do it. And that's what's happening, And it's happening faster

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Speaker 1: than I ever thought it would. It really is. It's

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Speaker 1: a tragedy. The other thing that it's hard to convey

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Speaker 1: to people because you know, they know I'm a Republican

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Speaker 1: and they think it's very partisan. But this really comes

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Speaker 1: from my knowledge of criminal justice, this is purely because

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Speaker 1: of democratic policies. De Blasio is pro criminal. He's done

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Speaker 1: away with bail, He's led about ten thousand people out

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Speaker 1: of prison. He tells the police not to enforce the

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Speaker 1: law numerous times, particularly in riots, and he paints Black

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Speaker 1: Lives Matter all over the place, And unless you're a fool,

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Speaker 1: black Lives Matter is an anti police, anti law enforcement,

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Speaker 1: anti white organization that wants to create violence. When you

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Speaker 1: took over in this kind of environment, I think everybody

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Speaker 1: was surprised how fast you began to turn things around.

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Speaker 1: What do you think was the key to that and

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Speaker 1: what were your insights that really made you far in

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Speaker 1: away the most effective anti crime mayor and modern American history.

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Speaker 1: You know, we did shoot things that really took about

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Speaker 1: two years to really turn it around. But Bill Bratton

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Speaker 1: and I decided we'd have to have a couple of

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Speaker 1: victories first, because the people of New York were weary

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Speaker 1: and they were depressed, and they felt that nobody could

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Speaker 1: reduce crack. People have been promising that for thirty years

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Speaker 1: and failing. I was told by all my friends I

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Speaker 1: couldn't do it and that I was ruining an otherwise

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Speaker 1: decent career by being mayor, but we picked out a

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Speaker 1: few things where we could show people change. We went

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Speaker 1: after what we'll call them, the squeegee operators, the people

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Speaker 1: who come up to your window clean your window. Started

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Speaker 1: off really nice twenty years earlier. By the time we

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Speaker 1: get to the nineteen nineties, they're slashing your tires, they're

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Speaker 1: stealing your purse, they're breaking your windows. So we went

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Speaker 1: out and do a survey of them. We figured out

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Speaker 1: how many they were. We used our Fledgeling CompStat system

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Speaker 1: to put them on a computer and on a map,

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Speaker 1: and we almost did like a military exercise. We went

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Speaker 1: out one night with about three hundred cops. We got

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Speaker 1: rid of about the recordings of them in one night,

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Speaker 1: and then the next night we got rid of a

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Speaker 1: few more. And all of a sudden, people are driving

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Speaker 1: into the city and these people that have been bothering

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Speaker 1: them for twenty years are now gone. We didn't even

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Speaker 1: put out it preculous. We let it get out and

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Speaker 1: then we said, oh, that's just a little bit of

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Speaker 1: what we can do. We found the place of the

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Speaker 1: city that had the most crime, and that was exporting

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Speaker 1: the most crime. Brooklyn North. We put all our resources

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Speaker 1: there and we brought crime down. We started with the

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Speaker 1: worst place rather than the easiest place, and that got

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Speaker 1: under control very quickly. And from then on, everybody brought

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Speaker 1: into it. And even the times the first year I

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Speaker 1: was doing it, you know, it was claiming I was

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Speaker 1: bringing back stormtrooper tactics, and they thought of brought into

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Speaker 1: it when they saw we weren't doing stormtrooper tactics. That

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Speaker 1: This was almost a scientific approach to crime reduction by

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Speaker 1: using CompStat where crimes occur, put it into computer, what

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Speaker 1: time of day, where are the police? If auto theft

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Speaker 1: is happening in the southern part of Brooklyn and drugs

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Speaker 1: in the northern part, why do we have our autoceft

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Speaker 1: people all over the city and not just concentrated in Brooklyn. Basically,

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Speaker 1: by creating an awful community where people don't do graffiti

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Speaker 1: and vandalize and get away with it, people don't jump

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Speaker 1: over turnstiles and get away with it, you're teaching the

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Speaker 1: young people to respect the law. And that's maybe a

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Speaker 1: four or five year process, but it's better than just arresting.

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Speaker 1: Arresting is a short term solution, and broken windows is

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Speaker 1: a long term solution and then really good social programs,

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Speaker 1: not the ridiculous, idiotic social programs. That made me a Republican.

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Speaker 1: I was the prosecutor when Lindsey was the mayor, and

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Speaker 1: I investigated the social programs of the Great Society, and

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Speaker 1: if they were spending twenty five percent of the money

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Speaker 1: on people, it was a lot. I really became a

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Speaker 1: Republican because of the crookedness in the Democratic Party that

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Speaker 1: I observed in the prosecuent. When you started developing this,

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Speaker 1: one of the things I was most fascinated by is

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Speaker 1: I mean, you had a unionized bureaucracy in the police force,

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Speaker 1: in a big police force, and you somehow managed to

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Speaker 1: convince them that they were going to have to change.

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Speaker 1: How did you do that? Well, first of all, my

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Speaker 1: police commissioner and I removed probably three quarters of the

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Speaker 1: senior leadership of the department, and not because they weren't

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Speaker 1: good people or some of them I had worked with

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Speaker 1: as a prosecutor. They never would have listened to us.

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Speaker 1: It would be like telling the Pentagon you've got to

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Speaker 1: fight a war. Differently, you better get other generals that

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Speaker 1: are going to listen to you, because they're going to

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Speaker 1: tell you you're too stupid and we're not going to

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Speaker 1: listen to you. Al they'll yes either death. But we

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Speaker 1: knew bureaucracy well enough to know we had to clean

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Speaker 1: them out. So on one day, Braden got rid of

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Speaker 1: twenty five people were at the highest levels. We brought

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Speaker 1: in much younger people. Many of them have gone on

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Speaker 1: to be police commissioners and had great success elsewhere, and

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Speaker 1: they all brought into because the major change we were

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Speaker 1: making is the comps had to accept accountability. All of

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Speaker 1: a sudden, there was going to be their system. The

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Speaker 1: primary design of it was to help us figure out

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Speaker 1: how to use our resources strategically constant, but what do

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Speaker 1: is focus on where cops are doing their job and

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Speaker 1: where they're not. And we had people quit, We have

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Speaker 1: people refused to comply with it. He literally had a

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Speaker 1: commanding officer. They would have to report once every two

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Speaker 1: weeks to headquarters and go through a CompStat meeting. We

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Speaker 1: had one guy that got so drunk, he was so

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Speaker 1: nervous that he's walked into the meeting drunk. It was

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Speaker 1: really pathetic. It was a fascinating thing to watch accountability

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Speaker 1: take over. And the other thing that was fascinating about it,

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Speaker 1: because I'd love to see this in schools. All of

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Speaker 1: a sudden, the good people come to the fore. They say,

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Speaker 1: I've been busting my you know what, to do a

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Speaker 1: good job. The other guys don't do anything, and I

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Speaker 1: get the same thing. Wellm a sudden, somebody's gonna they

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Speaker 1: were n't even pay originally. Somebody's gonna tap me on

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Speaker 1: the back. Somebody's gonna say, you know, one of the

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Speaker 1: best cops. When you put that element into an organization,

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Speaker 1: it does scare the people who aren't doing their job.

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Speaker 1: But the people who know they can do their job,

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Speaker 1: they just rise right to the top. And they took over.

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Speaker 1: And it took about a year, but they eventually took over,

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Speaker 1: and by a year the culture had changed to a

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Speaker 1: culture of accountability. We were not just looking at the

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Speaker 1: number of arrest the number tickets the cobs gave out,

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Speaker 1: but what was happening to crime in an area that

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Speaker 1: a commander was responsible before, what was happening for crime

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Speaker 1: in an area where the police officers had responsibility, like

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Speaker 1: a beat cop for that area, if he was finding

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Speaker 1: ways to bring crime down, we were finding ways to reward.

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's common sense, except bureaucracies resisted, and maybe

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Speaker 1: it was easier with the police because even though they

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Speaker 1: didn't have it, they are kind of modeled on the military,

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Speaker 1: so it's a little bit easier to get them to

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Speaker 1: accept something like that. But it didn't happen right away.

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Speaker 1: When you became mayor, you inherited an increase of about

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Speaker 1: four thousand police that was a response to the disaster

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Speaker 1: before you got there, but they were on the way in.

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Speaker 1: How big a factor was that big I added five

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Speaker 1: thousand to that. I increased over a period of a

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Speaker 1: year a year and a half about ten thousand police officers,

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Speaker 1: But it was really knowing how to use them rather

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Speaker 1: than having that many. They had increased the police department

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Speaker 1: in the past almost that same number, and crime went up.

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Speaker 1: The CompStat system allows you to strategically analyze your people

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Speaker 1: and put them in the right places. One of the

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Speaker 1: major things that I did that brought down black crime.

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Speaker 1: I reassigned police officers from wealthy white neighborhoods to Harlem, Bedford,

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Speaker 1: stuiverson Fort Green. So basically we had the same number

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Speaker 1: of police officers in every police station. One of them

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Speaker 1: could have, you know, five hundred murders and the other

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Speaker 1: one ten we had the same number of police officers.

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Speaker 1: So I doubled the number of police officers in the

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Speaker 1: places that there's five hundred murders. So I got a

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Speaker 1: lot of grief because most of the people I was

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Speaker 1: taking police from other people voted for me, and most

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Speaker 1: of the places I was putting the police are people

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Speaker 1: that are voted against me, and they were yelling at

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Speaker 1: me for doing it, but not community knew. I would

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Speaker 1: go to town hall meetings there and even though I

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Speaker 1: had double the size of the precinct, I would have

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Speaker 1: women that lived there tell me may or we need

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Speaker 1: more police, and honestly they did. I just couldn't produce

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Speaker 1: that for people who wondered whether or not you could

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Speaker 1: actually have a direct policy impact on the number of murders,

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Speaker 1: on the amount of crime. Your record, even in the

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Speaker 1: first two years was astonishing compared to anybody else I'm

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Speaker 1: aware of. People have been waiting for it for so long.

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Speaker 1: It was a built up demand for it. The first

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Speaker 1: two years, if I recall correctly, probably was a quarter

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Speaker 1: of the overall decline over eight years. There's about twenty

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Speaker 1: five upon in the first year, which would be by

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Speaker 1: the way, it's about the increase that has taken place

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Speaker 1: in the last eight weeks. The murder is up twenty

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Speaker 1: eight percent right now. That hasn't happened since the day

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Speaker 1: I became mayor that murdered was up that much. As

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Speaker 1: you look out right now, the sources of money sorrows

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Speaker 1: seems to almost a dimension for trying to strengthen criminals

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Speaker 1: and weaken the forces of law and order. What's your

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Speaker 1: take on all that this is coordinated with Black Lives

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Speaker 1: Matter because he's one of the biggest contributors the Black

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Speaker 1: Lives Matter. He does it through two other companies, RFOP

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Speaker 1: and Thousand Currents. And Thousand Currents, by the way, is

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Speaker 1: run by a convicted terrorist, Susan Rosenberg, who was convicted

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Speaker 1: when I was yours attorney. She got a fifty eight

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Speaker 1: year prison sentence for the bombings of Weather Underground, who

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Speaker 1: were dedicated to the slaughter of police, and then she

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Speaker 1: was pardoned by and she only started sixteen years or

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Speaker 1: the fifty eight year sentence, even though at the sentence

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Speaker 1: thing she said, the only remorse I have is I

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Speaker 1: didn't do that final shootout with the police and take

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Speaker 1: them down. So she's the in between between Sorrows and

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Speaker 1: Black Lives Matter. At the same time, he started to

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Speaker 1: fund DA's racist all over the country, very very different places,

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Speaker 1: like the DA in Saint Louis was bringing the case

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Speaker 1: against the mccusky family, the family that was holding the

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Speaker 1: gun to protect themselves in front of their home. Saint

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Speaker 1: Louis attorney Kim Gardener was the one that charged Mark

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Speaker 1: and Patricia mccoski of Saint Louis with keleny weapons count

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Speaker 1: for trying to defend themselves when there is a clear

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Speaker 1: law in Missouri which completely exonerates them. It's called the

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Speaker 1: Castle Doctrine, and it says you can hold a gun

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Speaker 1: at someone. Basically, it said on your property. The DA

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Speaker 1: in Philadelphia has been selected by Sorrows, and it's a

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Speaker 1: disaster in Philadelphia. He becomes DA. Property crime goes right

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Speaker 1: to the top because he doesn't prosecute property crime. Police

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Speaker 1: have demonstrated against that and don't work with his office.

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Speaker 1: Murder is up there in Philadelphia right now about thirty

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Speaker 1: because we have a DA that doesn't prosecute a lot

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Speaker 1: of criminals and he elects them out of jail. He

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Speaker 1: doesn't get bail on them. The DA in Contra Costa, California,

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Speaker 1: where the woman who covered over the Black Lives Matter

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Speaker 1: sign is being prosecuted for a hate crime. That's a

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Speaker 1: DA elected by Sorrows. And the most interesting one going

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Speaker 1: on right now is in Los Angeles where there is

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Speaker 1: an African American district attorney named Lasi. For my view,

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Speaker 1: she's too pro criminal, but she's a good district attorney,

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Speaker 1: and she is being accused of not having prosecuted enough

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Speaker 1: police officers. Well, I mean, they have to be guilty

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Speaker 1: to prosecute. You can't just go prosecute them because some

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Speaker 1: primal says that they were brutal or they did something wrong.

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Speaker 1: Criminals are mostly gonna lie. So you get a case

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Speaker 1: like the Floyd case. I think it was very very clear,

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Speaker 1: But you don't usually get a case like that. He

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Speaker 1: usually get a case where the person is shooting at

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Speaker 1: the cops. First. Well, how she's not going to prosecute

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Speaker 1: that unless she's a crazy audio audit. So they're going

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Speaker 1: after her with Sorrows money to put in. The DA

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Speaker 1: of San Francisco named George Gascon. Now, Sorrows got him

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Speaker 1: elected five years ago in the last election for San

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Speaker 1: Francisco DA He was defeated because property crime rates went

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Speaker 1: up dramatically. I think San Francisco became number two the

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Speaker 1: property crime, and the property crime in San Francisco was

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Speaker 1: twice the property crime in Los Angeles, and it was

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Speaker 1: really hard to figure out why he didn't prosecute it.

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Speaker 1: So they threw him out. Sorrows put a lot of

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Speaker 1: money behind them, but Sauros got defeated by the people

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Speaker 1: of San Francisco. He's running that guy, but just attorney

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Speaker 1: of Los Angeles, the guy who's screwed up San Francisco,

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Speaker 1: and he's leading because the DA's husband got into a

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Speaker 1: situation like the Saint Louis situation. There were these protesters

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Speaker 1: at his door. He's a sixty seven year old black man,

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Speaker 1: and he walked out would have done it, and he said,

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Speaker 1: if you don't get off my property, I'm gonna shoot you.

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Speaker 1: And they're prosecuting him. So she had to recuse herself, obviously,

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Speaker 1: and they're prosecuting him and they're demonstrating against him. Black

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Speaker 1: lives matter every week. She considered to be one of

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Speaker 1: the best districtorities in the country just on a substantive

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Speaker 1: basis liberal, but one that I would respect tremendously. It

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Speaker 1: looks like they get a defeater. What do you think

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Speaker 1: is the underlying rationale of being so unbelievably pro criminal

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Speaker 1: loocate New York now where there's no bail. So there's

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Speaker 1: a story of the bank robber who robbed the bank

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Speaker 1: every single day, got arrested every single day for six

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Speaker 1: straight days, and got released every single day, and finally

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Speaker 1: trying to the cop and said, you know, we have

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Speaker 1: to do form, but keep you well, you're not exaggerating

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Speaker 1: if you translate it to drug dealing. You know what

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Speaker 1: it says. I mean, the drug dealers have taken over

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Speaker 1: these neighborhoods in about three weeks. They've all come out

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Speaker 1: of the closet from somewhere. All that's shooting that you're

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Speaker 1: seeing in New York seventy are drug related. But they

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Speaker 1: can use their guns again. And what the community sees

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Speaker 1: is the big shot drug dealer in the neighborhood gets

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Speaker 1: arrested and five hours later he's back. Now, you're never

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Speaker 1: going to get cooperation from a community about who's the

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Speaker 1: big drug dealers there if the big drug dealer that

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Speaker 1: gets arrested is back in four hours and then they

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Speaker 1: begin to think that the system is corrupt. They don't

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Speaker 1: think we would be stupid enough to have a no bailbo,

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Speaker 1: so they think he must have paid off the cop

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Speaker 1: or he must have paid off the judge, and a

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Speaker 1: lot of them, by the way, go and say that

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Speaker 1: justause they want to run the community. This is insidious

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Speaker 1: and we have a man as mayor who doesn't understand it.

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Speaker 1: Uros puts up millions and millions of dollars through an

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Speaker 1: amazing range of organizations. I mean, what do you think

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Speaker 1: motivates him? This is a country which offered him refuge,

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Speaker 1: which enabled him to become very wealthy. You would think

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Speaker 1: he would like us, but it's pretty clear us. Did

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Speaker 1: you have an idiot all? Why? Well, I can only

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Speaker 1: speculate because I've been dealing with the thirty years. He

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Speaker 1: believes that we should have a socialist government. I think

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Speaker 1: he enjoys chaos, and he seems to maybe some psychological

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Speaker 1: needs of chaos. He's also done in parts of Eastern

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Speaker 1: Europe and where he's gone ahead and transformed because attorney's

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Speaker 1: offices there, he's turned them into corrupt operations that protect

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Speaker 1: his businesses. And that's where he learned it he wants

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Speaker 1: to overthrow the form of government. We have completely destroy

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Speaker 1: our American way of life and replace it with this,

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Speaker 1: I guess to him utopian dream of an international world.

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Speaker 1: What is it the average citizen now, whether in New Yorker,

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Speaker 1: in Minneapolis, or wherever, what should they do to try

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Speaker 1: to turn all this around? This is a battle for

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Speaker 1: I'm going to save our way of life. All these

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Speaker 1: things are at stake, our family, our government, or police forces.

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Speaker 1: So this is a fight for what America is going

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Speaker 1: to be all about. And I think that's the level

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Speaker 1: at which the president has to fight is the only

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Speaker 1: one they can stand against it. Right now, this is

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Speaker 1: the biggest election in our history. The next twenty or

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Speaker 1: thirty years will get affected by this. We're either going

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Speaker 1: to continue to be a basic, free enterprise system or

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Speaker 1: we're going to have this crazy kind of combination of

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Speaker 1: socialism and reparations for racism and political correctness. I tell

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Speaker 1: people it's the most significant election since Abraham Lincoln in

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Speaker 1: eighteen sixty four. That had Lincoln been defeated, his opponent

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Speaker 1: would have accepted the secession of the South, given up

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Speaker 1: on slavery, and the Union would have basically been over

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Speaker 1: and I think similarly the gap between Biden, Pelosi and

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Speaker 1: Schumer on the one side, and Trump and McConnell and

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Speaker 1: McCarthy and the other we have not ever seen in

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Speaker 1: our lifetime this big a gap in terms of which

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Speaker 1: way the country would go. And in a sense, the

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Speaker 1: gap between what you did to bring down crime and

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Speaker 1: what Deblasio has done to increase crime is a similar parallel,

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Speaker 1: if you will, to where we were. And so I

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Speaker 1: think this has been extraordinarily helpful, and I really want

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Speaker 1: to thank you. I really appreciate you doing this. Thank you,

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Speaker 1: Thank you to my guest Mayor Rigialian. You can read

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Speaker 1: more about restoring law and order to our cities on

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Speaker 1: our show page at newtsworld dot com. Newts World is

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Speaker 1: produced by Gingwich three sixty and iHeartMedia. Our executive producer

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Speaker 1: is Debbie Myers and our producer is Garnsey Slump. The

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Speaker 1: artwork for the show was created by Steve Penley. Special

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Speaker 1: thanks to the team at Gingwich three sixty. Please email

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Speaker 1: me with your questions at Gingwich three sixty dot com

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Speaker 1: slash questions. I'll answer them in future episodes. If you've

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Speaker 1: been enjoying Newtsworld, I hope you'll go to Apple Podcast

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Speaker 1: and both rate us with five stars and give us

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00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:41,040
Speaker 1: a review so others can learn what it's all about

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Speaker 1: and the next episode of Mitsworld. What really matters for

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Speaker 1: black lives? A controversial subject in today's current culture, but

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Speaker 1: my guest as a point of view given his many

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Speaker 1: years of experience. Robert Woodson Senior is an American civil

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Speaker 1: rights activist, community development leader, author, and founder and president

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Speaker 1: of the Woodson Center. I'm new Gingrich. This is neutral