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Speaker 1: Bodybags with Joseph Scott Morgan. Historically, when we think of

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Speaker 1: the assassination of Abraham Lincoln, it kind of begins and

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Speaker 1: ends with the shooting and subsequent death of Abraham Lincoln

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Speaker 1: at the hands of John Wilkes Booth. But you know

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Speaker 1: there were other people involved in this plot to kill

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Speaker 1: the president other than John Wilkes Booth. One in particular

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Speaker 1: was a fellow who was named Lewis Powell, and Louis Powell,

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Speaker 1: on the same night that Lincoln was assassinated for its theater,

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Speaker 1: was given the assignment. He was part of the conspirators

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Speaker 1: to kill the Secretary of State, William Sewart. William Seward

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Speaker 1: was in his home in Washington. He had neck brace on.

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Speaker 1: He had been involved in a carriage accident some days earlier,

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Speaker 1: and he was bedridden. And Lewis Powell made his way

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Speaker 1: into Seward's bedroom with a knife after he had pushed

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Speaker 1: past the matre d in the house had attacked and

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Speaker 1: when he made his way to William Sewart's bed, he

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Speaker 1: begins stabbing him over and over again. The only thing

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Speaker 1: that saved Seward's life was the fact that he had

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Speaker 1: this neck brace in and he was trying to stab

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Speaker 1: him in the neck. Lewis Powell eventually fled from Sewart's

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Speaker 1: home and ran into the streets and I quote screaming,

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Speaker 1: I'm mad. I'm mad, and I don't mean mad like angry,

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Speaker 1: I mean like he's saying that he's crazy. On today's case,

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Speaker 1: on Bodybags, we're going to talk about a woman who

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Speaker 1: was actually saying something very similar to what Lewis Powell

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Speaker 1: said all those years ago. She said, I'm a murderer.

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Speaker 1: I'm a murderer. And you know what, that was confirmed

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Speaker 1: when the police entered into the home of her mother

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Speaker 1: and found not just the greatly traumatized body of her mother,

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Speaker 1: but they were staring at something, something that was staring

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Speaker 1: back at them, her mother's eyes that had been removed

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Speaker 1: and placed on a cardboard box adjacent to her remains.

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Speaker 1: I'm Joseph Scott Morgan and this is body bags. There's

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Speaker 1: something about anything affecting my sight. I've always had to

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Speaker 1: wear glasses. I say always, I guess since I was

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Speaker 1: about eleven, I've worn glasses. I've always wanted to be

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Speaker 1: freed from this prison of eyewear, and anything that has

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Speaker 1: to do with eyes always unnerves me, and this case

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Speaker 1: caught my attention because it's recently been adjudicated, and I

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Speaker 1: was just fascinated by it. I think, not just the trauma,

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Speaker 1: but the anatomy of this. How is this even possible

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Speaker 1: for someone to do it? How is it possible for

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Speaker 1: somebody to actually have the will to do this to

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Speaker 1: your own mother. It's not like she shot her to death.

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Speaker 1: This is the stuff of horror movies, Dave.

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Speaker 2: This story begins with a phone call from Camille Bala

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Speaker 2: actually calls a coworker and says, Hey, you need to

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Speaker 2: come over here. I need help. I think I've just

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Speaker 2: killed my mother.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the thing I think, Yeah, I think I

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Speaker 1: think I've just killed my mother. It's not a definitive statement, yea,

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Speaker 1: I have killed my mother. It's like you pause for

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Speaker 1: a second and talk about madness. You begin to consider

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Speaker 1: what's being implied there. Okay, I'm calling my coworker to

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Speaker 1: come over and okay, here's my statement to you. I

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Speaker 1: think I've killed my mother. Please come over here and

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Speaker 1: give me a confirmation. Can you confirm that I have

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Speaker 1: either killed my mother or haven't killed my mother? And

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Speaker 1: you ask you know, what could be the driver? Behind this,

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Speaker 1: that your perception of reality is something that is altered. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it is altered, an altered state. If you will, I

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Speaker 1: love that, I submit to you that. The reason that

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Speaker 1: not many people have heard of this case is because

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Speaker 1: the perpetrator has been cooling her heels in jail since

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Speaker 1: twenty eighteen in county jail. County Jail's not not even prison,

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Speaker 1: she's in a county jail.

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Speaker 2: County jail is different than being in prison. Being in prison,

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Speaker 2: you have certain boy, you have access to so many

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Speaker 2: different things. It's prison is a life. You have a

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Speaker 2: prison life.

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Speaker 1: You have.

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Speaker 2: Access to TV and things that you don't have in

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Speaker 2: a county jail library. Right, Yeah, just everything is different

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Speaker 2: because it's made at prison. Is you've gone through the system,

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Speaker 2: you've been sentenced, You're going to be here for a

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Speaker 2: couple of years. This is your life, whereas county jail

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Speaker 2: could be anything from somebody who got a dui last

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Speaker 2: night to somebody who got into a bar fight to

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Speaker 2: somebody who didn't pay enough tickets, and they're all lumped together.

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Speaker 1: All lumped together, and you never know. It's it's a

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Speaker 1: mixed bag. You never know what's what's going to be

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Speaker 1: in there, and just so folks know, I you know,

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Speaker 1: I've I've over the course of my career as a professor,

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Speaker 1: I've had students that have started out right out of

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Speaker 1: college working in jails because they're trying to get on

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Speaker 1: with whatever police department or sheriff's office. And it's amazing

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Speaker 1: the stories I've heard about their time spent working at

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Speaker 1: a county correctional facility. Some of the individuals that would

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Speaker 1: be in jail being and this is what it generally

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Speaker 1: spends out. They're either being held for a number of

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Speaker 1: medical reasons perhaps, or they're there. I know, in one

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Speaker 1: set of circumstances, I had a student that was working

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Speaker 1: at a county jail that had been reserved part of

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Speaker 1: been reserved by the Feds because they were keeping people

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Speaker 1: there for protective custody. And so you've got this gamut,

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Speaker 1: you know, this population when you look at this thing

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Speaker 1: and you're thinking, oh my god. And here's the really

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Speaker 1: interesting thing, Dave. When Camille Bala was initially arrested for

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Speaker 1: this brutal homicide of her mother, she was charged with

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Speaker 1: first degree premeditated murder day and in Florida, that's that's

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Speaker 1: a ticket that's that's a one way ticket to the

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Speaker 1: death house. You know, that's that's a capital offense. And

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Speaker 1: so that's a it's interesting that she's been You've got

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Speaker 1: this person that has at least the authority thought at

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Speaker 1: the time that this is so egregious, that it's so

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Speaker 1: over the top that we're going to hook her up

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Speaker 1: on charges for first degree premeditated and we're going to

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Speaker 1: keep her in the county jail since twenty eighteen. That's

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Speaker 1: a that's that's kind of a hard thing to digest.

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Speaker 2: There's kind of a Paul Harvey here. Now you know

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Speaker 2: the rest of the story. There's got to be more.

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Speaker 2: I don't know what it is, but anyway you look

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Speaker 2: at it, anyway you look at somebody sitting in county

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Speaker 2: jail for five years is a long stretch. Now, not

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Speaker 2: that she doesn't deserve it or anything else, it's just weird.

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Speaker 2: It's just an odd amount of time to spend in

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Speaker 2: a county lock up when you're not dealing with a conspiracy,

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Speaker 2: you're not dealing with any other people that are part

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Speaker 2: of this. You're the sole person responsible for the crime

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Speaker 2: you're accused of. And again, they can't move it along

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Speaker 2: to get you to trial. There just has to be more.

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Speaker 2: But they're not letting us know. They're not letting us

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Speaker 2: know a lot of things, even right now, Joe, when

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Speaker 2: we started off by saying she doesn't, she calls a

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Speaker 2: co worker and says, I think I might have just

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Speaker 2: killed my mother. The co worker then calls nine one

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Speaker 2: one and says, meet me over here. Because or that's

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Speaker 2: actually one story says she called on the way. Another

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Speaker 2: story says she called when she got there. But either

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Speaker 2: way you look at it, it was the co worker

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Speaker 2: that called nine one one and made the claim that

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Speaker 2: her friend believes she has killed her mother.

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Speaker 1: I can't imagine being the co worker and showing up.

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Speaker 1: And when the worker arrived, Camille was actually perched on

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Speaker 1: the front steps of her mama's house, covered in blood.

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Speaker 1: Can you imagine rolling up to that disaster. And it's

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Speaker 1: at that point in time that I think the coworker

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Speaker 1: called nine one one and when the cops rolled up.

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Speaker 1: When the cops rolled up, she looked at the cops,

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Speaker 1: handed them a bloody set of keys, and started screaming,

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Speaker 1: I'm a murderer, I'm a murderer. When the first deputy

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Speaker 1: rolls up to this scene that he's been summoned to.

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Speaker 1: And by the way, this is this is the home

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Speaker 1: of Francesco Monteiro Bala, who is the mother of Camille Bala.

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Speaker 1: This is her home. It's a nice, very nice home.

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Speaker 1: You know, when this deputy rolls up, not only is

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Speaker 1: she screaming that she's a murderer, she's a murderer. She

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Speaker 1: looks at the deputy and then says, and this is

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Speaker 1: what we actually call a spontaneous admission. Investigators will and

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Speaker 1: whatever you do, you don't stop anybody. When in the

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Speaker 1: midst of this she says, I killed my mother and

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Speaker 1: I need help. And that's when you know, she hands

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Speaker 1: over the keys and she points to the garage. I

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Speaker 1: cannot imagine being the deputy and making entry into this

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Speaker 1: home because you know, at this point, just so folks

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Speaker 1: understand the deputy, because this is at this point in time,

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Speaker 1: this is still a welfare check because the deputy has

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Speaker 1: to confirm that they have someone de ceased. Now you

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Speaker 1: have somebody that's saying I killed my mother. I killed

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Speaker 1: my mother, but they still have to go in and

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Speaker 1: confirm that this is what happens. This doesn't mean that

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Speaker 1: they're going into actually search or conduct a detailed investigation.

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Speaker 1: When when this deputy walks in and he goes into

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Speaker 1: that garage, he just absolutely is witnessed to a blood bath.

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Speaker 1: And there was literally a dynamic blood distribution on the

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Speaker 1: walls all over the place, in the garage and within

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Speaker 1: the house itself. And there's a you know, there's a

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Speaker 1: box not too far away from the body, cardboard box,

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Speaker 1: and he sees something on it. That's when he calls

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Speaker 1: CID and they roll the home side detectives out there.

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Speaker 2: When the deputy gets there, and you've got this person

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Speaker 2: who is uttering, by the way, she was also talking

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Speaker 2: out of her mind and saying things under her breath

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Speaker 2: that didn't make sense. They knew something obviously was a miss.

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Speaker 2: She's covered in blood. She is also wounded, by the way,

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Speaker 2: and I'm talking about Camille Bala. When the deputies are

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Speaker 2: walking through their house, there was blood spatter everywhere. What's

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Speaker 2: the difference between splatter and spatter.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, with both of these terms, one is an action

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Speaker 1: word and one is a deposition word. Traditionally, what the

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Speaker 1: deposition of blood, how it is defined, and how it's

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Speaker 1: defined linguistically. When you talk about the spattering of blood

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Speaker 1: SPA T t R. You're talking about small particulate bits

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Speaker 1: of blood or tissue that are deposited in a wide

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Speaker 1: range of area. But when you think about the word splatter,

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Speaker 1: that's a combination of and spatter came before splatter, all right.

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Speaker 1: Linguistically historically it did, and so when you think about

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Speaker 1: splatter that it's a combination. You're ready for this of

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Speaker 1: the words spatter and splash, and splatter has always had

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Speaker 1: the connotation that you're talking about. If I took a

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Speaker 1: bucket of paint or you know, a container of blood

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Speaker 1: and just kind of tossed it everywhere, that would be splatter,

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Speaker 1: all right. Whereas if you have, like spatter, and you

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Speaker 1: have have a dynamic event like a gunshot wound where

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Speaker 1: they're adjacent to a wall, and you get these kind

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Speaker 1: of fine particulate bits of blood that are kind of

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Speaker 1: satellited out all over the place because you know, the

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Speaker 1: high velocity nature of it it causes it to be smaller,

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Speaker 1: then that would be spatter. Now, some people have interpreted

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Speaker 1: these two words differently, as one is an action word

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Speaker 1: and one is actually a definitive word that's used as

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Speaker 1: a noun, you know, like that is in fact splatter

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Speaker 1: there as opposed to spatter or conversely. So people get

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Speaker 1: these confused all the time. The news media in particular

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Speaker 1: get them confused. But they do traditionally have two distinct meanings.

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Speaker 1: And in a case like this, where you're not necessarily

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Speaker 1: talking about a high velocity event because we do know

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Speaker 1: that an edged weapon is involved in this case, so

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Speaker 1: you're not going to have that huge dynamic event where

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Speaker 1: you have this big bolt spray unless you clip an

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Speaker 1: artery and it's still not going to look like a

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Speaker 1: high velocity spray. You're going to be seeing these big

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Speaker 1: swaths of blood all over the place. You'll have because

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Speaker 1: I can only imagine that Camille, since she's done this

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Speaker 1: d to her mother, where she's got the mother has

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Speaker 1: got multiple injuries and they're some of these. Again, this

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Speaker 1: is very confusing because they're using the term laceration in

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Speaker 1: Francesca's description of Francesca's injuries. They're saying that some of

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Speaker 1: these are lacerations. Well, what if we what have we

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Speaker 1: talked about on body bags for multiple episodes? Now, relative

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Speaker 1: to lacerations, lacerations are not commonly termed as sharp force injuries.

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Speaker 1: Those come about as a result of blunt force injuries.

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Speaker 1: So it's very interesting the language that's involved in here.

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Speaker 1: But suffice it to say this, there was an effuse

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Speaker 1: amount of blood at the scene, as you can expect

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Speaker 1: because the mother has been has been cut at least

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Speaker 1: we know the skin has been opened on her face,

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Speaker 1: her neck, her chest, her abdomen, and oh, by the way,

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Speaker 1: her eyes are no longer in dwelling in their sockets.

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Speaker 1: You examine this case, look at it very carefully, and

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Speaker 1: you begin to understand that there has to be some

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Speaker 1: kind of motivating impetus behind a daughter's desire to absolutely

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Speaker 1: wreck her mother, and could it? And yeah, I have

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Speaker 1: worked cases, Dave where you have a lot of rage

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Speaker 1: on the part of a child, where you have a

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Speaker 1: what's it called a parricide, where you have the child

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Speaker 1: that kills the parent. And I've had some that were

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Speaker 1: absolutely brutal. I tell you I, to the best of

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Speaker 1: my recollection, I've never worked a case involving a child

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Speaker 1: where they did this kind of disfigurement to a loved

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Speaker 1: one or specifically to a parent. There's got to be

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Speaker 1: more at work here.

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Speaker 2: Well. When the deputy finds his way in the garage.

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Speaker 2: He has to go through the house and he talks

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Speaker 2: about the blood spladder everywhere, lots of blood in this house,

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Speaker 2: and traces it all the way to the garage. There's

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Speaker 2: like a trail of blood all the way through the

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Speaker 2: house leading to the garage where we find the victim,

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Speaker 2: Francesca Montero Bala. She's fifty seven years old at the

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Speaker 2: time of her death. She has been cut up. It

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Speaker 2: has been it has to have been a monstrous fight.

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Speaker 2: Her daughter is screaming, I'm a murderer, and she's got

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Speaker 2: cuts on her hands, so much so that even for

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Speaker 2: her first court appearance, the daughter's hand was totally wrapped

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Speaker 2: up in gauze from a trip to the hospital. And yet,

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Speaker 2: the one thing that you or I and anybody else

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Speaker 2: I know is going to take away from this is

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Speaker 2: that as the deputy is looking at the deceased victim,

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Speaker 2: he looks up because there's trauma to her eyes, and

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Speaker 2: he looks up and on a box several feet away

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Speaker 2: are two eyeballs. Yeah, I can only imagine this is

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Speaker 2: going to be a shocking thing to see. I don't

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Speaker 2: know how an eyeball can even come out of the socket,

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Speaker 2: how big it is. I know. All I know is

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Speaker 2: I can't figure it out sitting here looking at you.

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Speaker 1: How is it?

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Speaker 2: How does it come out? How can you take an eyeball.

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Speaker 1: Out from this perspective? It's very difficult. And I have

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Speaker 1: removed eyes, but I have done them in the morgue,

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Speaker 1: and I'd never go in anteriorly and take them out

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Speaker 1: of the socket. Okay, really wait.

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Speaker 2: A minute, so you wouldn't wait, You wouldn't get you

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Speaker 2: got the head land there, you would not just pull

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Speaker 2: it out.

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Speaker 1: No no, no, no, no, no no, no, no, no way. Uh.

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Speaker 1: I would go in first off, if in the cases

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Speaker 1: of a homicide where we're doing an autopsy, we're going

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Speaker 1: to take off the skull cap. And when you take

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Speaker 1: off the skull cap, which is actually referred to as

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Speaker 1: the calvarium, when you pop that thing off after you've

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Speaker 1: used the agitating saw the striker saw, you've taken out

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Speaker 1: the brain. When you're looking at the floor of the skull,

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Speaker 1: there is almost a shelf that is right behind the

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Speaker 1: frontal bone, and it's very thin, and doctors will describe

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Speaker 1: it the thickness of it, and this is how fragile.

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Speaker 1: Just point of order here, So people understand how fragile

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Speaker 1: your skull is. It is the floor of the skull

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Speaker 1: right there has a translucence that is equivocal to an

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Speaker 1: extra If that doesn't terrify you, you would, yeah, well yeah,

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Speaker 1: and it's it's in a socket. Okay, don't get me wrong.

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Speaker 1: It's actually you know this this socket that you have.

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Speaker 1: You hear about your eye sockets where you have super

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Speaker 1: and suborbital ridges, you know, above and below, and it

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Speaker 1: makes up the socket. But behind you know, you've got

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Speaker 1: a major optic nerve, which is you know, people think

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Speaker 1: of nerves and they think that you can't see them,

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Speaker 1: but you have the optic nerves that run into the

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Speaker 1: back of the eye. They look like the only way

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Speaker 1: I could really describe it's kind of interesting. They look

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Speaker 1: like little white cables like you would think that are

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Speaker 1: going into the back of the eye. So those have

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Speaker 1: to be trimmed away. And then there's muscle and ligament

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Speaker 1: attachments for the eyeball itself. And so we would cut

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Speaker 1: through the floor of that shelf that's right above the

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Speaker 1: eye and we can take it out more gently and

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Speaker 1: you can appreciate you say, well, Morgan, why would you

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Speaker 1: need to do that. Well, if we're tracking gunshot wounds

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Speaker 1: many times that are passing through the head, you want

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Speaker 1: to be able to appreciate the eye. And there's any

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Speaker 1: number of other reasons. Also if the floor of the

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Speaker 1: skull is fractured beneath that level. Have you seen people

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Speaker 1: that have been either had like nose jobs. You've seen

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Speaker 1: somebody that has been in a fight where they've had

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Speaker 1: a broken nose. I've broken my nose multiple times. You

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Speaker 1: get bilateral raccoon eyes, and what happens. It's the floor.

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Speaker 1: It is so fragile in there that you get this

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Speaker 1: build up of blood and hemorrhage is in there and

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Speaker 1: it takes a while for it to recede, you know.

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Speaker 1: But we would go in posterily and interiorly and posteriorly

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Speaker 1: to remove the eye. That way, the fact that this

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Speaker 1: daughter obviously she didn't open up the skull, right, she

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Speaker 1: actually goes in and tierarily and rips the eye out.

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Speaker 1: You hear about eye gains agaen and this sort of thing. Well,

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Speaker 1: it's one thing to gouge an eye, because an eye,

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Speaker 1: if you're in a fight and you kind of and

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Speaker 1: you can blind somebody by doing it, don't get me wrong,

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Speaker 1: and police, I'd say, nobody try this. But if you know,

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Speaker 1: you see in movies and whatnot, will people are trying

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Speaker 1: to defend themselves where their eyes striking or sticking their

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Speaker 1: thumbs in people's eyes. Yes, that can be a catastrophic event,

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Speaker 1: but you don't think of the eye actually being removed.

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Speaker 1: It would take work, and it would take a significant

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Speaker 1: amount of trauma because the eye is anchored in the rear.

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Speaker 1: They're actually and on the sides and on the top

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Speaker 1: with these little muscular attachments. There's ligament attachments that are

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00:22:40,480 --> 00:22:42,840
Speaker 1: there and it's holding the eye in place. And it

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00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:47,800
Speaker 1: is so complex that if everybody listening to me right now,

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Speaker 1: will just think about keeping your head static and not

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Speaker 1: moving your head, but looking the left or right or

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00:22:54,800 --> 00:22:57,880
Speaker 1: up or down with your eyes. That's controlled by these

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Speaker 1: muscles that are in dwelling in the eyes. A fascinating thing.

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Speaker 1: The fact that the daughter went in and probably used

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Speaker 1: an instrument. I can't imagine that she would use her

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Speaker 1: finger to do this. I guess she could have, but

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Speaker 1: we do believe that she had some type of knife

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Speaker 1: because they allude to this and essentially kind of cut around. Well,

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Speaker 1: how would you get it out because you have to

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Speaker 1: get passed, not just these muscular attachments. You got to

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Speaker 1: get past the eyelids. There's two of them, right, upper

350
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Speaker 1: and the lower. You've got to manipulate all of this.

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Speaker 1: And here's the other thing. How can you be so

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Speaker 1: very numb to all of this in the midst of

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Speaker 1: this and you look down and you're doing you're perpetrating.

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Speaker 1: Let me say that this act upon the mother, who

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Speaker 1: we can only assume at some point in tom gazed

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Speaker 1: upon her daughter with these same eyes, maybe in a

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Speaker 1: loving manner, I don't know, and now you're taking them out.

358
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Speaker 1: How could she be that numb to it?

359
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Speaker 2: Dave Well, what we've been told is that Camille Bala

360
00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:15,600
Speaker 2: claims to have smoked marijuana prior to this incident and

361
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Speaker 2: believes that it had been laced with floka or something

362
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Speaker 2: along those lines. For those who don't know what floka is,

363
00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:31,240
Speaker 2: it has If you've heard a PCP, which you know,

364
00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:34,720
Speaker 2: angel dust, where somebody would have superhuman strength and be

365
00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:38,119
Speaker 2: totally out of control and didn't resemble the person, you

366
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Speaker 2: know that type of behavior that is consistent with PCP

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Speaker 2: is also consistent with floka. And at the time this

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Speaker 2: happened in twenty eighteen. The state of Florida was dealing

369
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Speaker 2: with a huge rise in Floka and bath Salt's related

370
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Speaker 2: events like this, where people were eating the faces off

371
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Speaker 2: of other people. I'm not saying that as a joke.

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Speaker 2: That's not a term. I mean physically eating faces off

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Speaker 2: of human beings that are alive. So when you take

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Speaker 2: it to this level, I didn't know what all it

375
00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:15,040
Speaker 2: took to get an eyeball out Joe. I really didn't

376
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Speaker 2: even have a clue.

377
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Speaker 1: Yeah, and she freely admits to the police that she

378
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Speaker 1: has smoked marijuana. They did find rolling papers there and

379
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Speaker 1: that she believed I guess this is after she's beginning

380
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Speaker 1: to you know, the high is resolving in her that

381
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Speaker 1: she thinks that it was laced with floka or PCP,

382
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Speaker 1: And it turns out I think that it probably was PCP.

383
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Speaker 1: But back to back to floka floca. People get it

384
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Speaker 1: confused sometimes with PCP because it's actually called PvP. It's

385
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Speaker 1: actually alpha PvP, and it it puts the individual into

386
00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:09,320
Speaker 1: a hallucinogenic state. And you know, we've seen all kinds

387
00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:13,000
Speaker 1: of things. Certainly, you know, back in the day, we

388
00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:19,439
Speaker 1: had people that were they would smoke marijuana joints that

389
00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:23,399
Speaker 1: were laced with PCP. In New Orleans for a period

390
00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:25,560
Speaker 1: of time when I first started my career down there,

391
00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:28,800
Speaker 1: you could buy those on the street and they were

392
00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:31,600
Speaker 1: actually referred to as here's a weird name. I've never

393
00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:34,239
Speaker 1: heard it anywhere else either, that would refer to them

394
00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:37,919
Speaker 1: on the street as click thems. And there were people

395
00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:40,840
Speaker 1: that were lacing things with PCP. Actually knew of cases

396
00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:46,080
Speaker 1: where they were lacing them with famaldehyde and smoking them

397
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Speaker 1: and they're trying to they were trying to arrive at

398
00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:55,600
Speaker 1: this kind of hypnotic or hallucinogenic state that marijuana does

399
00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:59,440
Speaker 1: not afford, and it drives them to another level. When

400
00:26:59,440 --> 00:27:02,400
Speaker 1: you're talking about Flokka, which by the way, is created

401
00:27:02,440 --> 00:27:06,280
Speaker 1: in a laboratory. It is a designer drug. There were

402
00:27:06,359 --> 00:27:11,719
Speaker 1: actually cases, you know, you mentioned that there were people.

403
00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:14,080
Speaker 1: I remember one case. I think it was from twenty

404
00:27:14,160 --> 00:27:16,320
Speaker 1: twelve where you did. In fact, I think it was

405
00:27:16,359 --> 00:27:18,639
Speaker 1: a young woman that actually began to gnaw the face

406
00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:21,920
Speaker 1: off of some homeless guy, you know when all this happened.

407
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:26,679
Speaker 1: But here's the real interesting from a relationship point of view,

408
00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:31,000
Speaker 1: and kind of gives you an id idea how it

409
00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:34,800
Speaker 1: was viewed on the street. Flaka was actually referred to

410
00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:41,320
Speaker 1: as cannibal dust and PCP referred to as angel dust,

411
00:27:41,560 --> 00:27:44,920
Speaker 1: which is is quite fascinating. PCP had been around and

412
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:49,040
Speaker 1: it's actually an equine drug. It's used with horses, and

413
00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:52,600
Speaker 1: it had been around forever and ever. So somehow, you know,

414
00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:56,320
Speaker 1: you think about, well, okay, if that's the case, was

415
00:27:56,359 --> 00:27:58,440
Speaker 1: she and such and here's our word that you used

416
00:27:58,480 --> 00:28:00,399
Speaker 1: just a moment ago our words? Was she such an

417
00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:05,359
Speaker 1: altered state that you know, I don't know, maybe she

418
00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:08,159
Speaker 1: thought that her mother was a monster or whatever the

419
00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:11,040
Speaker 1: case might be. But I find it very interesting that

420
00:28:11,080 --> 00:28:18,399
Speaker 1: the authorities first charged her with they hung premeditated first degree,

421
00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:21,840
Speaker 1: and now they reduced this thing to a manslaughter charge.

422
00:28:21,920 --> 00:28:23,280
Speaker 1: That's kind of telling.

423
00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:26,360
Speaker 2: Premeditated first degree is needle in the arm.

424
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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you're in that's a capital offense, particularly in Florida,

425
00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:34,600
Speaker 1: you know, where they you know, more so than any

426
00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:37,760
Speaker 1: other state, you know, well maybe other than Texas and

427
00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:41,520
Speaker 1: maybe Oklahoma. Those three are you know, they're going to

428
00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:43,760
Speaker 1: use death panel they've got in place, and they use.

429
00:28:43,640 --> 00:28:48,400
Speaker 2: It, taking it from the harshest possible sentence. The death

430
00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:53,560
Speaker 2: sentence is so severe, so final that it is automatically

431
00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:57,479
Speaker 2: immediately appealed. Yet they negotiate.

432
00:28:56,880 --> 00:28:59,719
Speaker 1: This down to manslaughter.

433
00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:02,720
Speaker 2: It doesn't make sense, No.

434
00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:05,720
Speaker 1: It doesn't. It really doesn't. And so to me, from

435
00:29:05,760 --> 00:29:09,400
Speaker 1: a clinical standpoint, you have to think that she was

436
00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:13,400
Speaker 1: probably assessed and they felt as though that drugs had

437
00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:16,160
Speaker 1: so much of an effect on her relative to what

438
00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:19,440
Speaker 1: had occurred that they could justify in their minds of

439
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:22,440
Speaker 1: reducing this. Because Dave, this is this is so incredibly

440
00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:24,200
Speaker 1: over the top. And this goes along with one of

441
00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:27,920
Speaker 1: my hypotheses. You know, all these cases I cover, not

442
00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:30,760
Speaker 1: just body bagsmall on television, it seems like the more

443
00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:34,000
Speaker 1: egregious the crime is many times there is a higher

444
00:29:34,160 --> 00:29:39,719
Speaker 1: likelihood that some kind of psychopathy or drug related you know,

445
00:29:40,000 --> 00:29:43,080
Speaker 1: drug induced psychosis is going to come into play. Because

446
00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:46,280
Speaker 1: I think that people in the legal world they look

447
00:29:46,320 --> 00:29:48,600
Speaker 1: at it and say, well, what are the reasonable conclusion

448
00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:51,880
Speaker 1: could you arrive at other than she was impacted by

449
00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:57,719
Speaker 1: this in some way, But this is quite fascinating. In

450
00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:03,360
Speaker 1: addition to addition to her mother being found in this state,

451
00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:09,160
Speaker 1: she had also written these religious notes that were found

452
00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:16,480
Speaker 1: lying about and it had to do with purification through

453
00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:19,480
Speaker 1: death and these sorts of things. And I can only

454
00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:23,880
Speaker 1: imagine when you look at look at these items of

455
00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:27,440
Speaker 1: evidence at the scene, one of the things that's going

456
00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:30,840
Speaker 1: to stand out to you is that, depend upon when

457
00:30:30,960 --> 00:30:35,960
Speaker 1: she wrote them, these things are going to be blood

458
00:30:35,960 --> 00:30:39,600
Speaker 1: saturated as well. And any kind of instrument that she used,

459
00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:42,720
Speaker 1: whether it's a crayon or a pen or a pencil.

460
00:30:43,800 --> 00:30:48,520
Speaker 1: And here's one more little tidbit. There's broken glass throughout

461
00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:51,719
Speaker 1: the house, which is believed to have been the source

462
00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:55,640
Speaker 1: for these cuts that the perpetrator had on her. So

463
00:30:56,840 --> 00:30:59,880
Speaker 1: to make matters more complicated, looking at this from a

464
00:31:00,000 --> 00:31:03,120
Speaker 1: forensic standpoint, you're gonna have co mingling of the daughter's

465
00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:06,920
Speaker 1: blood with the mother's blood at the scene. It's quite

466
00:31:06,920 --> 00:31:10,760
Speaker 1: the fascinating case. But you know, at the end of

467
00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:15,600
Speaker 1: the day, I think that she's not going to spend

468
00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:17,120
Speaker 1: that much time in jail.

469
00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:23,760
Speaker 2: No, she was sentenced to ten years, but actually, Joe,

470
00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:26,840
Speaker 2: we mentioned this earlier. She spent five years in county jail.

471
00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:30,480
Speaker 2: And as I mentioned, I'm not saying anybody should feel

472
00:31:30,480 --> 00:31:33,720
Speaker 2: sorry for her about this, but county jail is an

473
00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:37,239
Speaker 2: uncomfortable situation for an extended period of time. If you're

474
00:31:37,240 --> 00:31:39,960
Speaker 2: there for a few days awaiting something. That's one thing.

475
00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:43,800
Speaker 2: But they don't put people in county jail to spend years.

476
00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:47,360
Speaker 2: You do that at the prison level. And that's why

477
00:31:47,480 --> 00:31:50,320
Speaker 2: I mean, she's spent five years in actually five and

478
00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:52,920
Speaker 2: a half years. Happened in March of twenty eighteen, and

479
00:31:52,960 --> 00:31:55,480
Speaker 2: she has not since she got out of the hospital

480
00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:57,720
Speaker 2: with the wounds on her hands fixed. She's been in

481
00:31:57,760 --> 00:32:01,400
Speaker 2: county jail since then. And now that they have done

482
00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:05,240
Speaker 2: the seny she pleaded guilty. Ultimately, she pleaded guilty to

483
00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:09,880
Speaker 2: the manslaughter charge. It was negotiatively. Circuit Judge Jeffrey Gillen

484
00:32:10,080 --> 00:32:13,720
Speaker 2: sentenced her to fifteen years in prison, followed by fifteen

485
00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:16,640
Speaker 2: years of probation. But she's getting credit for the two

486
00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:19,719
Speaker 2: thousand and eighty three days that she's spent in county

487
00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:22,680
Speaker 2: jail since her arrest, so she will be out of

488
00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:24,200
Speaker 2: prison in less than ten years.

489
00:32:24,360 --> 00:32:26,160
Speaker 1: You take the measure of that, and you think about

490
00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:30,200
Speaker 1: what she had done to her mother, the trauma that

491
00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:34,960
Speaker 1: she subjected her mother too. I guess the one thing

492
00:32:34,960 --> 00:32:38,640
Speaker 1: I wonder and the one thing that I will always

493
00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:41,920
Speaker 1: be curious about in this case, is did her mother

494
00:32:41,960 --> 00:32:44,000
Speaker 1: suffer I think that I would look back at that

495
00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:46,120
Speaker 1: and say, yeah, she would have had to have suffered.

496
00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:51,160
Speaker 1: I just hope that her death was quick. I'm Joseph

497
00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:54,240
Speaker 1: Scott Morgan and this is Bodyback