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Speaker 1: Hi guys, and welcome to a new episode of couch

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Speaker 1: Talks on You Need Therapy Podcast.

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Speaker 2: My name is Kat.

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Speaker 1: I am the host, and if you are new and

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Speaker 1: unfamiliar with what couch Talks is, it is the special

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Speaker 1: bonus episode of You Need Therapy where I Kat answer

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Speaker 1: the questions that you, the listeners, send to Katherine at

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Speaker 1: You Need Therapy podcast dot com. Now a quick reminder

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Speaker 1: before we get into today's question that this podcast does

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Speaker 1: not serve as a replacement or substitute for any actual

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Speaker 1: mental health services. However, we always hope that it can

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Speaker 1: help you in some way, somehow, wherever you are in

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Speaker 1: your life, whatever.

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Speaker 2: Journey you are on.

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Speaker 1: Now, each week we usually do one question. I take

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Speaker 1: those from you, the ones that you send to Katherine

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Speaker 1: at Nitherapy podcast dot com, and I always keep them

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Speaker 1: anonymous so you can feel really safe sending in the

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Speaker 1: question that you want me to talk about on here,

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Speaker 1: and you don't have to worry about your friends, or

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Speaker 1: your family, or your therapist or I don't know your doctor,

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Speaker 1: your grocery store cashier check her out, or the bus

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Speaker 1: driver that picks up your kids for school. None of

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Speaker 1: them have to know that you sent the question, and

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Speaker 1: you know what, the question that you sent in might

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Speaker 1: even help those people. AnyWho, I'm in a fun mood,

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Speaker 1: I guess. I am leaving tomorrow morning to go to

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Speaker 1: Charleston for a weekend with my husband. He had to

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Speaker 1: go for a business trip, and I said, well, if

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Speaker 1: you have to go to Charleston for one hour of

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Speaker 1: a meeting, we need to make the trip forth your

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Speaker 1: while let's just stay for three days. So we're doing that.

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Speaker 1: This is the last little piece of work I'm going

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Speaker 1: to do before I head off for vacation. Now, I'm

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Speaker 1: still going to keep to the normal format of couch

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Speaker 1: Talks and do one question.

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Speaker 2: And the question is kind of on.

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Speaker 1: Theme with the series that I started that's just now

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Speaker 1: becoming just I think embedded into the podcast as a

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Speaker 1: whole that this is for a therapist.

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Speaker 2: This question is specifically.

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Speaker 1: For therapists, and I think also you might get something

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Speaker 1: out of it even if you aren't. And it also

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Speaker 1: just might be interesting if you want to know a

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Speaker 1: little inside what's it called inside baseball, which I don't

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Speaker 1: really get that with baseball. That's just because there's I mean,

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Speaker 1: there's insider tricks and tips and things and every sport

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Speaker 1: and every business interested where that term originated and why

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Speaker 1: baseball gets to take the attention. Let's get to the question.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna read the question and then we will talk

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Speaker 1: about my thoughts here it is. Hey, Kat, I'm an

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Speaker 1: LPC and organ and recently started my own private practice.

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Speaker 1: Side note, I love being a therapist. I do not

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Speaker 1: love being a small business owner. It all feels overwhelming.

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Speaker 1: I find it so interesting that, from what I see,

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Speaker 1: it seems like the only to expand from having your

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Speaker 1: own practice is to either create a coaching program or

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Speaker 1: create a group practice. Would you mind sharing why you

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Speaker 1: started a group practice? Does the work that you have

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Speaker 1: put into it correlate to being a benefit financially? I

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Speaker 1: am all for therapists making more money and I don't

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Speaker 1: think there should be a stigma around it. Okay, if

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Speaker 1: you know me personally, you know that I could talk

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Speaker 1: about this all day long, and at the end of

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Speaker 1: the day, my opinion and what was right for me

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Speaker 1: and align with my values and my ethics when it

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Speaker 1: comes to being a therapist and running a business is

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Speaker 1: not the end all be all, So I'm going to

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Speaker 1: try to stay away from some of my thoughts about

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Speaker 1: the corruptness in this industry and some of the issues

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Speaker 1: with it, because I also know that my opinion could

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Speaker 1: change and how I feel now might not be how

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Speaker 1: I feel in a year and two years, and five

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Speaker 1: years and ten years. I agree that therapists should be

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Speaker 1: allowed to want and to follow through with making more

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Speaker 1: money and expanding. It is difficult because we can raise

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Speaker 1: our rates, but at a certain point it comes to

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Speaker 1: be this, I don't know this conversation inside of our

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Speaker 1: own value systems around what my value is a therapist

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Speaker 1: financially and monetarily, and if I'm going to cut myself

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Speaker 1: off from being able to work with and help the

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Speaker 1: population that I want to help. And also you don't

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Speaker 1: want to take advantage of people, So that's really tough.

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Speaker 2: I'm not going to go into that too much.

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Speaker 1: But I get what you're saying around like to grow

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Speaker 1: your business and to grow financially and all of that.

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Speaker 1: There aren't a lot of ways and spaces to do that.

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Speaker 1: And you're naming these two. I'm going to add that

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Speaker 1: third one. It's just like raising your rates. I think

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Speaker 1: that's gotten a little of control. And that's the part

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Speaker 1: that I'm going to back up from and maybe not

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Speaker 1: give too much opinion on for myself. But you're talking

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Speaker 1: about these other two things, coaching programs and group practice,

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Speaker 1: and I believe you're asking me because I have a

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Speaker 1: group practice. I did not go the coaching route, and

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Speaker 1: I'll talk about that and.

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Speaker 2: Why I didn't.

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Speaker 1: I think the theme that I'm finding out with my

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Speaker 1: life is I don't really set out to create a

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Speaker 1: lot of the things that I end up creating. They

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Speaker 1: come through my efforts to creating other things. Like I

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Speaker 1: might have an idea for one thing and then it

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Speaker 1: just like morphs into this other thing. Or I have

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Speaker 1: a goal or put intention towards this one thing, and

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Speaker 1: then through that process I find another avenue or another

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Speaker 1: thing that I want to do. And so that's why

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Speaker 1: I say this often to people around me and also

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Speaker 1: on the podcast, that we can change our minds, our ideas,

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Speaker 1: our goals, all that stuff can change because the more

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Speaker 1: we work towards things, the more we learn, and the

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Speaker 1: more that we might decide, Hey, I was going to

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Speaker 1: go left, but it feels like this right project over

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Speaker 1: here better fits where I am in my life right now.

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Speaker 1: So I didn't ever plan to have a group practice.

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Speaker 1: I planned to have a private practice, and then COVID happened,

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Speaker 1: which was at a very interesting time in the world

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Speaker 1: of therapy. I just happened to run into Stacy, who now.

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Speaker 2: Works for three Cords.

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Speaker 1: She's worked for me for four years now, and she

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Speaker 1: was about to graduate.

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Speaker 2: And I was.

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Speaker 1: Drowning, like drowning in my caseload because I think we

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Speaker 1: all thought people were going to stop going to therapy

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Speaker 1: because we were losing our jobs and all this stuff

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Speaker 1: was happening, and then we realized people are wanting to

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Speaker 1: work on themselves and need therapy more than ever. So

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Speaker 1: I had more work than I could handle, and I

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Speaker 1: wanted to be able to help as many people as

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Speaker 1: I could.

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Speaker 2: And then it just worked out.

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Speaker 1: It was like a perfect storm of me running into Stacy,

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Speaker 1: her graduating, her needing a job, her being able to

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Speaker 1: start in the type of stetting that I was providing,

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Speaker 1: which does not offer a salary or a guaranteed amount

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Speaker 1: of money. So it just happened really naturally and well,

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Speaker 1: and then it kind of grew from there. I can

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Speaker 1: say from my experience, private practice can feel very isolating,

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Speaker 1: and that was another one of my goals. I was

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Speaker 1: just going to work on office with other therapists, and

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Speaker 1: that's what I was doing before COVID is I kind

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Speaker 1: of combatd that isolating feeling by working in a suite

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Speaker 1: where they were multiple therapists that specialized in different things

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Speaker 1: that I had worked with in different places before I

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Speaker 1: started private practice. Then COVID happened. Then we were working

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Speaker 1: from home, that isolating feeling came back, and I was

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Speaker 1: trained in an environment that I was constantly learning from others.

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Speaker 1: I was always getting feedback, I had tons of supervision,

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Speaker 1: and I was always bouncing ideas off of people and

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Speaker 1: having natural training sessions through that experience, and so when

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Speaker 1: I started working by myself, I noticed that it was

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Speaker 1: really really difficult to maintain those same ideals without putting

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Speaker 1: an extreme amount of effort.

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Speaker 2: Into it, which you're already struggling.

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Speaker 1: As a private practice clinician because you were wearing so

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Speaker 1: many hats. On top of that, I'm also somebody who

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Speaker 1: loves to teach, and I can see myself leaving clinical

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Speaker 1: work and moving towards a more academic world one day.

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Speaker 1: I'm not saying that I haven't been researching programs.

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Speaker 2: To go back to school.

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Speaker 1: That's not what my goals are right now, but I

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Speaker 1: have looked at that a lot lately because that is

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Speaker 1: something that I love so much. I love teaching, and

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Speaker 1: I also love learning from other people as well, and

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Speaker 1: I love not being the smartest person in the room,

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Speaker 1: which is usually always I get easily overwhelmed by day

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Speaker 1: to day tasks that don't fall into the role of

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Speaker 1: simply being a therapist. And when you start a private practice,

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Speaker 1: you automatically take on many other roles, including marketing manager, accountant,

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Speaker 1: a bookkeeper, cleaning staff, office manager, business developer, training officer.

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Speaker 1: Like there's so many things that you take on that

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Speaker 1: you don't even realize that you're taking on because you're

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Speaker 1: running a business and I have no business training, I

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Speaker 1: have no financial training, I have none of that. I've

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Speaker 1: been working on my website a lot lately. Every one

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Speaker 1: of those tasks takes me about five times longer and

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Speaker 1: takes more brain power than it would the average person

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Speaker 1: that works in that field, if not more, because I'm

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Speaker 1: trained and sitting with people. I'm trained in hearing people.

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Speaker 1: I'm trained in helping people hear their stories more clearly.

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Speaker 1: I have a lot of social science information in my brain.

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Speaker 1: I don't have a lot of math equations, Excel format

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Speaker 1: information in my brain. So that stuff becomes overwhelming, mostly

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Speaker 1: because it's I don't understand a lot of it, and

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Speaker 1: it takes a lot of time and energy for me

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Speaker 1: to understand it, and I also hate it. So that

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Speaker 1: is just as a private practice clinician. Then you create

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Speaker 1: a group practice and you basically double those roles, and

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Speaker 1: then you add supervisor, and then you add mentor, and

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Speaker 1: then you add program director. And I would be lying

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Speaker 1: if I said it wasn't a lot. Now this is me.

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Speaker 1: This is the type of person I am. I have ADHD.

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Speaker 1: My brain just functions a little bit differently than most.

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Speaker 1: And so you asked, is the worth the financial payoff?

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Speaker 1: You asked, is the worth the financial payoff? That's a

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Speaker 1: hard question for me to answer, and I think that

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Speaker 1: people are going to answer that differently depending on who

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Speaker 1: they are and how they function. This is manageable for

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Speaker 1: me the way things are, but it's not as simple

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Speaker 1: as sometimes I pretend it is, and that I wish

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Speaker 1: it was most days, and that I would really talk

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Speaker 1: about with anybody.

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Speaker 2: It's a lot of work, and it's a lot.

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Speaker 1: Of unnatural work for me personally. Other people could tell

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Speaker 1: you it's a breeze, and that could be very true

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Speaker 1: for them. Other people can say it's very easy. That

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Speaker 1: can be very true for them. That hasn't been the

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Speaker 1: case for me, and it has been very much worth it.

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Speaker 1: I am not one to complain about the difficulties that

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Speaker 1: this position has caused me, because it has also allowed

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Speaker 1: me to do a lot of things that I really love.

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Speaker 1: And it's also given me a lot of flexibility that

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Speaker 1: I very much value in my life. When it comes

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Speaker 1: to the financial part of it all, depending on your

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Speaker 1: goals and the structure of your business, there are many

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Speaker 1: different layers to how this would pan out. I wanted

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Speaker 1: to develop a practice where there would be incentive for

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Speaker 1: people that came to three chords for them to stay.

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Speaker 1: I didn't want a revolving door of therapists who start here,

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Speaker 1: get licensed, and then leave to make more money on

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Speaker 1: their own or somewhere else. So the way my business

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Speaker 1: is structured gives that incentive as best as I can give.

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Speaker 1: With me being one person. My goal was to have

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Speaker 1: a cohesive team of people who like working together and

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Speaker 1: who can all learn from each other.

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Speaker 2: That was really really important to me.

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Speaker 1: I also wanted people who had similarities but also had

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Speaker 1: a lot of differences in who they are, their personalities,

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Speaker 1: and also the type of therapy they do. I didn't

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Speaker 1: want to have like a one size fits all type

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Speaker 1: of group because it's harder to.

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Speaker 2: Learn that way.

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Speaker 1: I loved learning it from a group of people that

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Speaker 1: all kind of focused on different things. And for me,

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Speaker 1: when it comes down to the business I've created and

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Speaker 1: the expansion that I've had over the last six seven

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Speaker 1: years of having a practice, I would rather really enjoy

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Speaker 1: the people that I work with and really enjoy the

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Speaker 1: work that I'm doing while being able to pay my

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Speaker 1: bills and live a life that I want to live

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Speaker 1: and be able to mentor people, then take home the

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Speaker 1: most amount of money I could take so I could

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Speaker 1: structure my business differently and make a lot more money.

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Speaker 1: And I think that people do that, and it's not

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Speaker 1: wrong and it's not bad. It's just not where I

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Speaker 1: am right now. So if we're talking about finances, you

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Speaker 1: might look at my workload and my finances and be like,

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Speaker 1: what that would not be worth it? But it also

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Speaker 1: gives me so much more than financials. It has given

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Speaker 1: me a lot of joy. It has given me a

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Speaker 1: lot of variety in my workday, which is helpful for

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Speaker 1: me and my personality. It has given me a lot

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Speaker 1: of excitement, It is given me a lot of meaning,

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Speaker 1: and so I think some of that pays off in

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Speaker 1: huge ways that don't directly correlate to money in my

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Speaker 1: bank account. Again, I'm not saying that structuring your business

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Speaker 1: differently would be bad or wrong, and to be very

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Speaker 1: motivated by money would be bad or wrong. Obviously, that's

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Speaker 1: part of the work that we do at Three Chords.

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Speaker 1: I'm not an altruistic person by any means, because I

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Speaker 1: do this work to have a job, to make money,

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Speaker 1: and I do make a good living. But I do

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Speaker 1: have some principles that guide how I build and grow

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Speaker 1: my practice that put a certain cap in places that

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Speaker 1: you don't really have to put a cap there. It's

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Speaker 1: just what I have done. So what I'm really trying

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Speaker 1: to say is financially, if that's how I was looking

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Speaker 1: at it, I probably would say, no, it's not worth

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Speaker 1: the workload, it's not worth the money that I'm making.

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Speaker 1: But all of these other things have made it very

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Speaker 1: much worthwhile, and I don't see as many clients and

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Speaker 1: says I used to see. I don't have as many

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Speaker 1: direct hours with my own caseload that's been filled in

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Speaker 1: with other work around running this practice in this business,

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Speaker 1: but I've still become so fulfilled while still being able

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Speaker 1: to maintain a life and lifestyle that allows me to

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Speaker 1: do the things that I want to do and take

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Speaker 1: the time off that I want to take off, like

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Speaker 1: I'm doing this weekend. Although I am working one of

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Speaker 1: the days that I'm going to be in Charleston, that's

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Speaker 1: really more because my husband's going to be working, so

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Speaker 1: you know, might as well. But when it comes to

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Speaker 1: you talking about the coaching program, that has never really

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Speaker 1: appealed to me. I'm not saying that it won't ever,

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Speaker 1: but I haven't really been drawn to do that or

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Speaker 1: create something, though I'm sure that parts of that are

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Speaker 1: really fun and could be exciting and also could be

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Speaker 1: super lucrative. I imagine one of the reasons I haven't done

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Speaker 1: this is that the type of care I bring to

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Speaker 1: clients is not something that's easily passed out in bulk,

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Speaker 1: and I'm a very individualized so to create a coaching

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Speaker 1: program that kind of markets to the masses sounds personally

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Speaker 1: incredibly difficult and draining, not that it's bad or wrong. Again,

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Speaker 1: it's just not my thing at the moment. I'm also

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Speaker 1: not saying that I would never do that, so I

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Speaker 1: can't speak to the finances around that. If that's worth

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Speaker 1: the time and energy, I would imagine it depends on

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Speaker 1: the person as well. Some people do really well with

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Speaker 1: that kind of stuff and some people kind of.

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Speaker 2: Fall flat with it.

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Speaker 1: And that's also an encouragement I would give to anybody

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Speaker 1: listening to this. I have done so many things that

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Speaker 1: have fallen flat and have either not been worth my

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Speaker 1: time or not actually been worth and made me the

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Speaker 1: money that I was hoping to make. And that's okay,

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Speaker 1: because each time you try something different, you're going to

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Speaker 1: learn something about yourself, about running a business in general,

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Speaker 1: about helping people, about what you need, about what people need,

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Speaker 1: and so it's going to lead you closer.

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Speaker 2: To something great.

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Speaker 1: And that's the mindset I've really taken through being a

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Speaker 1: business type entrepreneur person who never set out to be

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Speaker 1: a busy and this entrepreneur type person is that every

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Speaker 1: little thing you do that maybe flops also is helpful.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, we can call those things failures. I think

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Speaker 1: we can just call them also bumps in the road

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Speaker 1: or turns that we take in order to get to

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Speaker 1: the destination that we really need to get to. And

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Speaker 1: I will say for me, creating a group practice has

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Speaker 1: allowed me to combine the things that I love all

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Speaker 1: in one and that has been worth it. I love

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Speaker 1: working with a team. I love mentoring, I love educating.

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Speaker 1: I love doing the individual work that I get to do.

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Speaker 1: I love being able to be creative in a form

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Speaker 1: and fashion that isn't regimented and scheduled. And being my

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Speaker 1: own boss and running the ship has kind of allowed

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Speaker 1: me to do that. If I don't want to post

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Speaker 1: on social media, I don't have to post on social media.

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Speaker 1: Ali Fallon, who's been a guest on here before, has

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Speaker 1: said recently in a meeting I was in with her

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Speaker 1: that creativity is not something that can be just regimented

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Speaker 1: and churned out every single day in the way that

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Speaker 1: we exc it to be, and that it is something

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Speaker 1: that comes in spurts. And I have loved being able

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Speaker 1: to lean into that truth. Now, sometimes that ends up

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Speaker 1: taking financially things away from me. I'm sure I'm not

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Speaker 1: the most strategized person in the world, and that's okay.

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Speaker 1: Because my cup is full around the passion I feel

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Speaker 1: for my work and my desire to be excited to

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Speaker 1: do it, which I think is really really crucial, and

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Speaker 1: being a helper and being a therapist, maintaining the joy

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Speaker 1: and not having the burnt out part is really really

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Speaker 1: I think the best word I can come up with

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Speaker 1: right now is like crucial. It's a requirement in order

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Speaker 1: to do good work, I think, and being able to

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Speaker 1: be flexible as a business owner and as somebody who

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Speaker 1: wears a couple of different hats has been really helpful

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Speaker 1: in allowing me to maintain that and that I think

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Speaker 1: has been so worth it outside of what money I

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Speaker 1: think on its own could provide. And so there are

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Speaker 1: many benefits to working as a private practice therapist. The

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Speaker 1: flexibility and the freedom are two of my very favorite things,

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Speaker 1: and there's definitely some sacrifices that we have to make

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Speaker 1: in order to do this work. Right now, I wouldn't

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Speaker 1: trade anything the way that I'm doing it, and I

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Speaker 1: also always hold space that my mind could change at

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Speaker 1: any moment. I've kept my practice small because it allows

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Speaker 1: me to stay within the system and mission that I

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Speaker 1: want to stay within, and also continues to allow me

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Speaker 1: to have the freedom that I love having being a

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Speaker 1: small business owner. So if I wanted to do something

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Speaker 1: different or scale down or switch up my workload, I

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Speaker 1: could still do that. So I don't know if this

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Speaker 1: really is getting out what you were asking. It's what

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Speaker 1: came to mind when I read the question. But what

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Speaker 1: I would encourage you to do is sit down and

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Speaker 1: write out what's my mission and what are my.

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Speaker 2: Goals in the next thing?

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Speaker 1: For me?

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Speaker 2: Am I financially motivated? Okay?

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Speaker 1: Now where else do my motivations lie? And if I

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Speaker 1: have to make sacrifices financially, what would those be and

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Speaker 1: why would I make those? And if I have to

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Speaker 1: make sacrifices around my values and my mission, what would

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Speaker 1: that be worth in order for me to feel good

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Speaker 1: about the work that I'm doing. Because you're right, going

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Speaker 1: back to what you said, there shouldn't be a stigma

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Speaker 1: around therapists wanting to make a good living.

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Speaker 2: Especially because we pay a lot of money to get.

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Speaker 1: These degrees, and we pay a lot of money to

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Speaker 1: get licensed, and it's a lot of work, and it's

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Speaker 1: hard and it's draining, and we shouldn't be expected to

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Speaker 1: just be these altruistic people all the time, like we

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Speaker 1: also are people that live in a world that runs

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Speaker 1: on money, and also you're allowed to enjoy your life

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Speaker 1: and make money and get paid well for doing good work,

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Speaker 1: and at the same time we have to balance that

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Speaker 1: with the ethics that are involved in the field that

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Speaker 1: we're working in. And it's a hard dance and it's

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Speaker 1: been really hard. I think for me, I'll speak for

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Speaker 1: myself to be be able to talk about that part

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Speaker 1: of being a therapist and be really honest about it

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Speaker 1: and also have people find people that help me stay accountable,

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Speaker 1: and I think that's really helpful as well, like finding

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Speaker 1: people that are going to encourage you to grow your

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Speaker 1: business but also do it in a way that helps

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Speaker 1: you maintain your integrity. Integrity that's a word that I

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Speaker 1: wish I would have used more throughout this episode, but

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Speaker 1: it came to me at the end so great. I

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Speaker 1: hope that was helpful, and if you have any more questions,

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Speaker 1: feel free to send me another email. I love answering

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Speaker 1: these kinds of questions. Like I said, I love mentoring

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Speaker 1: and teaching and educating, and that's one of the reasons

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Speaker 1: I started this podcast in the first place, because that

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Speaker 1: was a quick and easy way for me to start

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Speaker 1: doing that. So if you would like to connect with us,

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Speaker 1: you can email me Catherine at you Need Therapy podcast

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Speaker 1: dot com. You can follow us at you Need Therapy

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Speaker 1: Podcast and at catvambur And until next week, I hope

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Speaker 1: you guys have the day you need to have, have

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Speaker 1: the labor day, weekend you need to have, and I

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Speaker 1: will talk to you soon. People pick