Speaker 1: Hi everyone, I'm Kitty Kuric and this is next question
Speaker 1: Megan McCain. First of all, thank you so much for
Speaker 1: being here.
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, Katie, thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 2: And I've known you so long and I'm such a
Speaker 2: fan of all your work and I'm so gladded to
Speaker 2: be here. I actually just saw some clips of an
Speaker 2: interview you just did with Jen Zaki that's all over
Speaker 2: the internet, and I.
Speaker 3: Went to Played eight with a girlfriend over the weekend.
Speaker 2: She was like, I just saw this amazing interview with
Speaker 2: Katie Kirk and I was like, I'm going on a
Speaker 2: Joe next week.
Speaker 1: So well, you know, I really appreciate you sitting down
Speaker 1: with me because, Megan, I know we disagree on a
Speaker 1: number of issues, but I don't know about you. I
Speaker 1: really don't want to live in a country where half
Speaker 1: the population doesn't talk to the other half of the country.
Speaker 1: So what my goal today is for you and I
Speaker 1: to hopefully model a conversation marked by respect, kindness, and
Speaker 1: open heartedness, which really isn't a word, but I think
Speaker 1: in a way, I want you and I to be
Speaker 1: a bit of a social experiment for our time. So
Speaker 1: thank you for doing this, thank you for being here.
Speaker 1: We have so much to talk about in so little time,
Speaker 1: so I thought I would just dive right in and
Speaker 1: ask you about the Instagram post. I'm on Instagram, I
Speaker 1: think eighteen hours a day. Sadly, I've got a real problem, Megan,
Speaker 1: But I was struck by your post. I think it
Speaker 1: was three days after the election, and I'm going to
Speaker 1: read the first two paragraphs if I could, and then
Speaker 1: we can talk about it. You wrote, I cannot express
Speaker 1: how validated I feel about my politics, my values, and
Speaker 1: my record of warning Democrats publicly for over a decade
Speaker 1: that their elitism, socialism, and overall social insanity is alienating
Speaker 1: the country as well as just is incredibly dangerous and
Speaker 1: anti American on a policy level. My entire adult life,
Speaker 1: I have had abuse directed at me simply for being
Speaker 1: a p out strong conservative woman who wouldn't back down.
Speaker 1: I've been yelled at in restaurants and socially ostracized almost
Speaker 1: everywhere except in conservative circles, been subjected to toxic work
Speaker 1: environments beyond comprehension, been accused of being a traitor to
Speaker 1: my gender, and more than I have time to write here,
Speaker 1: all because I've refused to be quiet, and I am
Speaker 1: a Republican woman. You know. I read that, and I wondered, actually,
Speaker 1: I don't think I read that many comments because I
Speaker 1: think you had just posted it. But tell us a
Speaker 1: little bit about the reaction to your post.
Speaker 2: Well, I didn't expect it to like get quite as
Speaker 2: much attention as it did. I think it's one of
Speaker 2: my most the most comments written on a post ever
Speaker 2: except for things relating to my dad when he had cancer.
Speaker 3: It came off afterward.
Speaker 2: I have some friends in my life who really didn't
Speaker 2: like it, and they thought it was like tonally sort
Speaker 2: of not appropriate. But I feel like I was just
Speaker 2: really letting off feelings that I've felt for a really
Speaker 2: long time, and I don't normally I try and be
Speaker 2: like a Christian woman who shows a lot of grace,
Speaker 2: But in that moment, I was like, I feel like
Speaker 2: I have been warning that a tsunami is coming for
Speaker 2: a really long time and been told I'm crazy, and
Speaker 2: then the tsunami came, and it's like I've been trying
Speaker 2: to tell everybody this is going to happen, and Trump's
Speaker 2: gonna get reelected, and people really hate what's going on
Speaker 2: in the country, and you know, I've basically been not everywhere.
Speaker 2: It's an exaggeration. I'm a little dramatic Katie in general.
Speaker 3: So but I just.
Speaker 2: Feel like, you know, I've taken a lot of heat
Speaker 2: from a lot of people, and a lot of personal
Speaker 2: things have happened to me in the past few I'd say,
Speaker 2: like five years, ten years, whatever, And I just was
Speaker 2: trying to say that like, if we don't, if we
Speaker 2: don't reset in general in the country, that this is
Speaker 2: only going to get worse. And I did up my
Speaker 2: own podcast with a friend of mine who's very progressive,
Speaker 2: and we discussed the post and I was like, sometimes
Speaker 2: I ever shout and void person, but in that moment,
Speaker 2: just processing the election, I was like, a lot of
Speaker 2: things I said were going to happen came true.
Speaker 1: I wondered, Megan, if you could share a little more
Speaker 1: about your experience being a conservative woman in media. You
Speaker 1: were the token conservative, if you will, on the View
Speaker 1: from twenty seventeen to twenty twenty one. Can you talk
Speaker 1: a little bit about that experience over those four years?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean people are always curious about this, and
Speaker 2: I understand because there's a lot of like sort of
Speaker 2: storied history.
Speaker 3: I did not have a great ending in the show.
Speaker 2: Oh I'm really proud of the fact that I'm one
Speaker 2: of two hosts in the history of the show that
Speaker 2: quit and warsn't fired me and Meredith Viera in the
Speaker 2: twenty eight year history. That's pretty cool to leave on
Speaker 2: your own fruition. You know, I've been the token conservative
Speaker 2: on many shows. I was a contributor on MSNBC. I
Speaker 2: did this millennial talk show with our friend Jacob sober
Speaker 2: Off in LA and I was always the token conservative.
Speaker 2: And for a long time it was fun where I
Speaker 2: liked sort of working with respectful people that wanted to
Speaker 2: hear my opinion.
Speaker 3: I wanted to hear theirs.
Speaker 2: And then in the era of Trump, things really shifted
Speaker 2: where I kind of felt like I was an avatar
Speaker 2: for all the hate and anger and frustration about Trump
Speaker 2: being filtered onto me. And when I started working at
Speaker 2: the show, I was very nervous to work there in
Speaker 2: general because it doesn't have a great reputation, but my
Speaker 2: dad talked me into it. My dad was like, you
Speaker 2: can't not do this. It's a huge platform. It's ABC News.
Speaker 2: You know better than anyone the power of network television,
Speaker 2: and as time went on in the Trump administration, things
Speaker 2: just got progressively ugly or both on the show, on
Speaker 2: the content we were making, and then backstage as well.
Speaker 2: And in that period of time, I always tell people
Speaker 2: I was like not the best version of myself for
Speaker 2: a lot of different reasons. I've had fertility struggles. I've
Speaker 2: had three miscarriages. I had my first one when I
Speaker 2: was on the show. My dad was dying of brain cancer.
Speaker 2: I was a caregiver to him. There's a lot of
Speaker 2: like drama in my life right at the same time
Speaker 2: that Trump was attacking my family publicly, so I I
Speaker 2: was just very emotional at the time in general. But
Speaker 2: I felt like I wasn't given grace from the people
Speaker 2: running a network or my colleagues at the time, and
Speaker 2: it's very tragic that it ended the way it did.
Speaker 2: I really tried to sort of save myself and save
Speaker 2: what I felt like was okay for the show. But
Speaker 2: now there's a report out in the New York Post
Speaker 2: yesterday that ABC executives are panicking because they don't have
Speaker 2: a real conservative person on the show and they're looking
Speaker 2: for someone to fill that void. And I was always saying,
Speaker 2: you may not like it, but it's an important role
Speaker 2: and the demonization of Republican women, I think is there's
Speaker 2: a direct through line between how I'm treated or was.
Speaker 2: And again this is a broad generalization. There's lovely people
Speaker 2: in the media on the left that are very kind
Speaker 2: to me. This is just my specific experience on the show. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but I think there's a direct line between seeing the
Speaker 2: treatment of people like me and Trump now.
Speaker 1: And do you feel like you were just sort of
Speaker 1: perpetually disrespected. I have to say I'm not a regular
Speaker 1: watcher of the view, but I remember when you were
Speaker 1: on and you were outnumbered, and did you feel that
Speaker 1: people were open to you or that they automatically attacked
Speaker 1: you if you opened your mouth.
Speaker 2: The hardest part about we're here on that show is
Speaker 2: actually how bad the leaking in the press was. In
Speaker 2: the first two weeks that I worked there, there was
Speaker 2: an article in the Daily Mail in the New York
Speaker 2: Post about how my nickname on the show was Elsa
Speaker 2: the ice Princess because I was an ice bitch.
Speaker 3: That's a direct quote.
Speaker 2: I've been working there, I think ten days at the time,
Speaker 2: and I could never have any private experiences backstage without
Speaker 2: it automatically going to a tabloid. Interestingly enough, that immediately
Speaker 2: ended when I left. And it's hard to maintain any
Speaker 2: kind of trust when you're already feeling like an outsider,
Speaker 2: and then you have a private conversation saying it's there
Speaker 2: was another article I remember because you know you remember
Speaker 2: when it's about you.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, believe me. I know the feeling.
Speaker 3: It's horrible.
Speaker 2: It's really horrible to be because I'm you know, I
Speaker 2: would love I'm a communicator.
Speaker 3: I would love to work things out privately.
Speaker 2: But when you're having a conversation and you're saying it's
Speaker 2: so hard to be a Republican on the show, and
Speaker 2: then I can always remember when I left the show,
Speaker 2: going home or going to dinner with friends, and there
Speaker 2: was always like a three hour period of time where
Speaker 2: I would be so tense.
Speaker 3: What's going to hit a tabloid about me? That's ugly?
Speaker 2: And it's just it's just not a productive way to
Speaker 2: be in any any place. So yeah, and I felt
Speaker 2: very misunderstood by people, and it's like it's tragic. Look,
Speaker 2: I'm forty, I'm a big girl. I don't regret doing it.
Speaker 2: I wouldn't like undo it, but Well, one of the
Speaker 2: last conversations I had with them was you really need
Speaker 2: to fix this anger and this aggression towards women who
Speaker 2: are unlike you, and it, you know, obviously didn't make
Speaker 2: any difference at all.
Speaker 1: You know, I know, Megan, your lifelong conservative, but you're
Speaker 1: not really a part of the MAGA movement. In fact,
Speaker 1: you are what they call in Arizona a McCain Republican,
Speaker 1: and that's not necessarily said in a complimentary way these days.
Speaker 1: I saw you speak at a woman's conference that I
Speaker 1: was also at. Can you talk about what has happened
Speaker 1: to today's GOP and the MAGA takeover of the party
Speaker 1: and what it's been like for you personally to witness this.
Speaker 2: Well, I always joke there are dozens of us. There
Speaker 2: are dozens of McCain Republicans. That's like a meme from Twitter.
Speaker 2: There are dozens of us. Look, I have my personal
Speaker 2: reasons for not liking President Trump that everyone is aware of,
Speaker 2: and I also have policy and just character reasons for
Speaker 2: not liking Trump that a lot of people in the
Speaker 2: country do.
Speaker 3: Yeah, McCain Republicans are thrown around.
Speaker 2: By I just use the example of Carrie Lake, the
Speaker 2: woman who ran for governor and lost, and who just
Speaker 2: ran for Senate and lost, and she literally said when
Speaker 2: she was on the campaign trail, if you're a McCain Republican,
Speaker 2: get the hell out, and then she ended up losing
Speaker 2: by around I think it was twelve points, which statistically
Speaker 2: they're twelve percent of people in Arizona that consider themselves
Speaker 2: McCain Republicans. So do that math whatever you want. Right, Look,
Speaker 2: it's complicated and it's difficult. I have friends who are
Speaker 2: more than likely going to work in the Trump administration,
Speaker 2: and I literally had a conversation with one recently where
Speaker 2: I was like, I hope your relationship with me doesn't
Speaker 2: hurt you. And it's a horrible true and the same
Speaker 2: way that like the leftist tribal, the right is just
Speaker 2: comparably tribal as well in all ways. And it's sad
Speaker 2: and it has been personally difficult and also just politically
Speaker 2: bizarre to feel like you've done something wrong because I'm
Speaker 2: not a maga kool aid drinking populist and I'm never
Speaker 2: going to be.
Speaker 3: And that's okay. Like it, it's okay.
Speaker 2: I don't think I've done anything wrong, but it certainly
Speaker 2: makes you unpopular in a lot of spaces.
Speaker 1: Well, why do you think it caught fire in the
Speaker 1: way it did Megan? You know that, as you say,
Speaker 1: there are dozens of McCain Republicans, you could say the
Speaker 1: same thing about you know, Mitt Romney Republican. I guess
Speaker 1: what we used to call Rockefeller Republicans. Right. It's so
Speaker 1: fascinating how the parties have really been turned upside down.
Speaker 1: But why do you think Donald Trump has such a
Speaker 1: hold on so many people in this country?
Speaker 3: I mean a lot of different reasons.
Speaker 2: I think the one of the smartest things he's ever
Speaker 2: said is, They're not after me, They're after you. I'm
Speaker 2: just in the way. And I think there's just a
Speaker 2: feeling of a lot of people in the country who
Speaker 2: you know, are living paycheck to paycheck, who have been
Speaker 2: screaming at the top of their lungs that inflation's killing
Speaker 2: them and they can't I have a friend in my
Speaker 2: life who couldn't go on a summer vacation this summer
Speaker 2: because of the amount of money she was paying extra
Speaker 2: and gas and inflation and interest rates on her. I
Speaker 2: believe health insurance can't remember sid a health or car insurance,
Speaker 2: And you know her husband's gainfully employed. So I think
Speaker 2: there was just a feeling that people are not being heard,
Speaker 2: the needs of the lower middle class are not being addressed,
Speaker 2: and that Trump continues to say I'm an outsider, I
Speaker 2: am gonna fight for you, and people believed it. And
Speaker 2: I just think there's been a lot of mistakes done
Speaker 2: along the way, but from Democrats running for office and
Speaker 2: governing in a world they want to see exist and
Speaker 2: not the one that actually exists.
Speaker 1: You know, I have thought about your dad so often,
Speaker 1: Megan during this election cycle. I'm sure you think about
Speaker 1: him every day, but I was one of many people
Speaker 1: who deeply admired him for his character, his service, and
Speaker 1: of course his wicket sense of humor. You know, you
Speaker 1: talked about personal reasons for disliking President Trump because he
Speaker 1: has disrespected your father repeatedly. He said he's not a
Speaker 1: war hero because he was captured. I like people that
Speaker 1: weren't captured. He was furious when your father was the
Speaker 1: deciding vote to not repeal Obamacare. He reportedly was apoplectic
Speaker 1: when the flags were flown at half masted after your dad.
Speaker 1: I think it's actually half staff if it's on ground
Speaker 1: and half masked if it's at sea half staff. After
Speaker 1: your dad died, your Dad's specifically instructed he did not
Speaker 1: want Donald Trump at his funeral and all of this,
Speaker 1: I mean, you loved your dad so much. I love
Speaker 1: my dad so much. I can't imagine how painful, honestly,
Speaker 1: all of this was for you. So I'm curious, and
Speaker 1: You've probably been asked this a million times, but what
Speaker 1: do you think your dad would think of Donald Trump's
Speaker 1: campaign this go round? He died in twenty eighteen, so
Speaker 1: he didn't see this Donald Trump two point zero, which
Speaker 1: is kind of Trump on steroids. Actually would he make
Speaker 1: of it?
Speaker 3: This is not his style.
Speaker 2: And I think anyone that's ever seen anything that he
Speaker 2: ever did he was always so bipartisan and trying to
Speaker 2: work with the other side to his detriment. I mean,
Speaker 2: he was called a rhino and attacked by people like
Speaker 2: Rushlan Ball throughout his entire career. So even when he
Speaker 2: was alive, he was sort of the McCain Republican figure
Speaker 2: that he is now.
Speaker 3: He would be.
Speaker 2: Heartbroken, but he also was stoic in everything. And I
Speaker 2: remember when Trump was first elected. I was very scared
Speaker 2: because that time I did not I thought he had
Speaker 2: a likelihood of winning.
Speaker 3: I didn't think you.
Speaker 2: But then secularly I was like, I don't think he's
Speaker 2: really going to pull it off. You know, it's Hillary
Speaker 2: Clinton he's ringing against. And I remember the next morning
Speaker 2: calling him and he was like, I know what's going on,
Speaker 2: Get up and go to your window.
Speaker 3: And I was like, okay.
Speaker 2: And I was living a NewYork and I was still
Speaker 2: single at the time, and I went up and looked
Speaker 2: out the window and he goes, do you see all
Speaker 2: those mother blanking pigs flying everywhere? That's what's going on.
Speaker 2: The pigs are flying, that's happening. And he always maintained this,
Speaker 2: like really a serbic, dark sense of humor. So I
Speaker 2: think he would have maintained his acerbic, dark sense of humor.
Speaker 2: But I think he would have been a conscience for
Speaker 2: the country and the way he always was. But I
Speaker 2: also think that he would have had a I think
Speaker 2: he would have been really demonized the way like Amitt
Speaker 2: Romney had been.
Speaker 3: And my dad dying gutted me.
Speaker 2: And I always feel like the point in my there's
Speaker 2: like before my dad died and after my dad died,
Speaker 2: and I didn't become a different person.
Speaker 3: But it just hardens you and ages you.
Speaker 2: When you anyone to brain cancer, anyone who's experienced it,
Speaker 2: you just become a different version of yourself. And there's
Speaker 2: a part of me that's happy he's not alive to
Speaker 2: see all this, because it would have broken his heart
Speaker 2: so badly to see the divisions in the country the
Speaker 2: way they are.
Speaker 1: Also, you know, the discourse, and I use that in
Speaker 1: really big air quotes, because one of many reasons I
Speaker 1: could not vote for Donald Trump was just the way
Speaker 1: he conducts himself and comports himself. And I actually wrote
Speaker 1: something and I harkened back to that campaign stop when
Speaker 1: someone was trashing Barack Obama and your father defended his opponent.
Speaker 1: Let's listen.
Speaker 2: I got to ask you a question.
Speaker 3: I do not believe in.
Speaker 2: I can't trust Obama. I have read about him, and
Speaker 2: he's not He's not he's a he's an air he
Speaker 2: is not.
Speaker 3: No, no, ma'am, no, ma'am. He's a decent family man,
Speaker 3: citizen that I just happened to have disagreements with on
Speaker 3: fundamental issues. And that's what this campaign is all about.
Speaker 2: He's not. Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 1: I so appreciated this decorum and this character that your
Speaker 1: dad always exhibited. I didn't necessarily agree with all of
Speaker 1: his policy physicians, but I was so grateful for the
Speaker 1: way he conducted himself. I mean, there couldn't be a
Speaker 1: greater contrast between him and Donald Trump.
Speaker 2: He's the last of the great ones, I believe. I
Speaker 2: think his passing, my husband always says it was a
Speaker 2: generational shift. It was like the ending of a very
Speaker 2: specific kind of generation that still cared about character and
Speaker 2: ethics and morals. And look, he was far from a
Speaker 2: perfect person. He would say that to your faith, right,
Speaker 2: sure you a million times you would know that, like,
Speaker 2: he certainly had his fault.
Speaker 3: But I worship my dad, so.
Speaker 2: That's never You're never going to get me to say
Speaker 2: anything really negative. I mean, I see him as a
Speaker 2: real person, but you know, you're never gonna get me
Speaker 2: to say anything negative about him. But I think one
Speaker 2: of the things that I miss the most about my
Speaker 2: dad is people ask me all the time is, as
Speaker 2: you said, his humor. He maintained such levity in dark
Speaker 2: situations even when he was you know, I remember when
Speaker 2: he was running for present, it was clear he wasn't
Speaker 2: gonna win, and some journalists they don't remember who like
Speaker 2: got up in his face and was like, is this
Speaker 2: going to be so hard for you? Or are you
Speaker 2: in a dark place? And he was like, he was like,
Speaker 2: excuse me, I've been through way worse than this. And
Speaker 2: you know, obviously what the implication of that is. He
Speaker 2: was tortured for five and a half years and he
Speaker 2: just always maintained this humor, and humor is gone from
Speaker 2: politics in general right now.
Speaker 1: Or has been replaced with this kind of weird, sick,
Speaker 1: hurtful humor. I think yes, yes.
Speaker 3: The nagging, punting, you know, bullying humor.
Speaker 1: If you want to get smarter every morning with a
Speaker 1: breakdown of the news and fascinating takes on health and
Speaker 1: wellness and pop culture, sign up for our daily newsletter,
Speaker 1: wake Up Call by going to Katiecuric dot com. I
Speaker 1: was talking to someone recently and I was curious about
Speaker 1: your take on this about Lindsay Graham. I don't even remember,
Speaker 1: you know, I talked to so many people and I
Speaker 1: read it. I read so many things, but you know,
Speaker 1: someone said Lindsey Graham always relied or depended on John
Speaker 1: McCain to give him a spine, right, And wow, Yeah,
Speaker 1: and then after your dad died, he became spineless because
Speaker 1: he didn't have someone to look up to like your father.
Speaker 1: And of course I'm old enough to remember the three amigos,
Speaker 1: you know, your dad and Joe Lieberman and Lindsey Graham.
Speaker 1: And as you watch Lindsey Graham become sort of sycophant
Speaker 1: in chief, I mean, what went through your mind.
Speaker 2: I won't associated with him anymore. I don't want to
Speaker 2: have anything to do with Lindsay Graham. And there's some
Speaker 2: personal animists that he's very well aware of between us
Speaker 2: and I just find him, you know, it's he's so
Speaker 2: far removed from the person I used to know, and
Speaker 2: I know from you know, mutual friends we have, and
Speaker 2: I would like to say my mother still associates with
Speaker 2: him and my brothers too. This is like my personal choice.
Speaker 2: I'm just not comfortable around him because he loves talking
Speaker 2: to press too. He like you know, there's very rarely
Speaker 2: you can have a private conversation with him that doesn't
Speaker 2: end up someplace. And I really, you know, better than
Speaker 2: anyone else in your life, you really have to have
Speaker 2: people around you that believe in the concept of off
Speaker 2: the record, especially people in your personal life, but he
Speaker 2: just he will go where power is in whatever form.
Speaker 2: And you know, I think he'll get these like short
Speaker 2: term dopamine rushes from being associated with Trump, and I
Speaker 2: think he'll get this short term. But I always wonder
Speaker 2: how he's going to feel at the end of his career,
Speaker 2: if this is all worth it, if morphing this way
Speaker 2: is all worth it. But maybe he looks at Liz
Speaker 2: Cheney and is like, look at her career. You know,
Speaker 2: she's out of power and she's demonized by so many people.
Speaker 3: And I don't want to be that.
Speaker 2: So I need to be like Trump and you know,
Speaker 2: imitate him and be his best friend. And people all
Speaker 2: have to live with their decisions in life and with
Speaker 2: their conscience and with their creator. And he disappoints me
Speaker 2: on many different levels, and I just I don't.
Speaker 3: Want to be around him anymore.
Speaker 1: You know, you talk about people having serious struggles, economic struggles,
Speaker 1: and how that motivated a lot of people to vote
Speaker 1: the way they did. And not to put too fine
Speaker 1: a point on it, because we sort of talked about
Speaker 1: this already, Megan, but it's fascinating to me and actually
Speaker 1: I think disturbing to many that Donald Trump's behavior and actions.
Speaker 1: He never did anything that was disqualifying, And I wonder
Speaker 1: if you could shed some light on why you believe
Speaker 1: things like January sixth, which Donald Trump called a day
Speaker 1: of love, his conviction by a jury of his peers
Speaker 1: of thirty four felony counts, his asking the Secretary of
Speaker 1: State of Georgia to find him eleven seven hundred and
Speaker 1: eighty votes. His insistence that the twenty twenty election was rigged,
Speaker 1: despite the fact that over sixty court cases failed to
Speaker 1: find evidence of that. Why do you think all those things?
Speaker 1: This is what I'm still scratching my head about. Megan
Speaker 1: didn't lead voters to think he was just simply unfit
Speaker 1: for office. I mean, and that's just honestly, those are
Speaker 1: just kind of the headlines. There are so many other
Speaker 1: things underneath those actions that I could have also named.
Speaker 1: Why do you think people were willing to turn a
Speaker 1: blind eye to so many things that Donald Trump not
Speaker 1: only did, but what he stands for.
Speaker 2: I think there's a few different answers to this. The
Speaker 2: first one is the same friend. She felt sort of like,
Speaker 2: I don't know, guilty, but definitely like a little sheepish
Speaker 2: telling me she was voting for Trump, and I asked
Speaker 2: the same question, and she said, I paid five hundred
Speaker 2: dollars for groceries and one hundred dollars for gas this morning.
Speaker 2: I like, something has got to change, and I don't
Speaker 2: have the sort of I'm not in the same station
Speaker 2: in life that you are, with the same kind of
Speaker 2: guardrails to have that be my main priority, which I
Speaker 2: thought was a very interesting and honest answer. So I
Speaker 2: think for a lot of people, as James Carville says,
Speaker 2: it's just the economy stupid and they just want change.
Speaker 2: I also think people are like very scared about the border,
Speaker 2: and very scared about a lot of these culture war issues,
Speaker 2: and just seeing the world changing in a way that
Speaker 2: they don't like, and they've sort of come to terms
Speaker 2: with the fact that the person who's going to change
Speaker 2: it comes in this like really morally corrupt and character
Speaker 2: flawed package. I also think I had a conversation with
Speaker 2: Sean Spicer where he was bringing up the fact that
Speaker 2: Bill Clinton is still someone who was on the convention
Speaker 2: stage for the Democrat Party, and he's someone who obviously
Speaker 2: has we don't need to go into it, but a
Speaker 2: lot of you know, sexual I.
Speaker 1: Thought, I've thought about that too, but I just feel
Speaker 1: like they're not comfortable. I don't think it's the same either, right,
Speaker 1: But mister relaying, Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, but no, I
Speaker 1: thought I've wondered about that as well. The way I
Speaker 1: it mets out for me is that it just the
Speaker 1: actions are are just you can't compare the two.
Speaker 2: I think also in this election, there are two moments
Speaker 2: that I thought really did it for Trump. One of
Speaker 2: them was his assassination attempt and the image of him
Speaker 2: screaming fight with blood down his face. And you know,
Speaker 2: even for me, because I you know, I do not
Speaker 2: like him, we are not. I'm not a supporter, I
Speaker 2: wrote in not whatever of him, But even for me,
Speaker 2: I was like, oh my god, this man is like
Speaker 2: even when he's bleeding, he's like, I'm fighting for you.
Speaker 2: And I think there was just never a comparably iconic
Speaker 2: image for Biden or or Vice President Harris going into
Speaker 2: the election, and then I think President Biden calling Republicans garbage.
Speaker 2: I really don't think you can underestimate what to impact out.
Speaker 2: How I knew a lot of people who dress like
Speaker 2: in garbage trash bags at Halloween and put like garbage person,
Speaker 2: trash person on their like social media and bios. And
Speaker 2: I think if you already think the elites think you're garbage,
Speaker 2: then you're not going to believe that they're going to
Speaker 2: fight for you.
Speaker 3: If you're trash.
Speaker 2: That's thrown out in your your what you do and say,
Speaker 2: it doesn't matter. It's horrible that President Biden did and
Speaker 2: Vice President Harris didn't do it. She never said anything
Speaker 2: like that, but unfortunately, I think the mistakes of President
Speaker 2: Biden hurt her very deeply.
Speaker 1: You wrote in a candidate, I won't ask you who
Speaker 1: in my dad you wrote in I'm.
Speaker 2: You know, I know it's so and people are mad.
Speaker 2: I mean, people are so mad at me, Katie. I
Speaker 2: mean mad that I didn't vote either way. And I
Speaker 2: was like, I'm I have such like Christian Gil at night,
Speaker 2: and I don't want to I don't want anything, all
Speaker 2: my conscience with any of it.
Speaker 3: And I can never vote for Trump. I can't do it.
Speaker 3: I could never explain it to my.
Speaker 1: Children and tell me why you couldn't vote for Kamala Harris.
Speaker 3: I just policy.
Speaker 2: I really wanted her to give me a reason to
Speaker 2: vote for her, and I just felt like it never happened,
Speaker 2: and there were some questions that she just couldn't answer.
Speaker 2: And look, I'm a pro life, pretty hardcore conservative woman,
Speaker 2: and Governor Waltz was a big It was way too
Speaker 2: extreme for me. He actually like scared me a lot
Speaker 2: more than she did, and why he's very radical on
Speaker 2: abortion and his record during twenty twenty George Floyd protests
Speaker 2: in Minneapolis, and I felt like he was costplaying as
Speaker 2: a Republican to try and get my boot.
Speaker 3: It all felt very phony.
Speaker 1: Oh, although I have to point out that Donald Trump
Speaker 1: called him and congratulated him for how he handled the
Speaker 1: riots in Minnesota.
Speaker 3: Right, that's ridiculous. Yes, it's a completely No one represents me.
Speaker 2: But I do think because people would keep asking me,
Speaker 2: you know, was she a good candidate? And I was like,
Speaker 2: she had one hundred days to do this, and I
Speaker 2: think she should be spotted for doing For getting in
Speaker 2: the cockpit of a crashing plane and leveling it out
Speaker 2: the way she did, I don't know how many other
Speaker 2: politicians could have done that. And I actually think that
Speaker 2: there are a lot of genuine criticisms of her that
Speaker 2: I can get, But I don't think she's this cataclysmic
Speaker 2: disaster that she's being portrayed as now.
Speaker 3: I think it's actually pretty unfair.
Speaker 1: I think she, I mean, this is me, and of
Speaker 1: course I'm more liberal than Europe, but I thought she
Speaker 1: carried herself with such dignity and intelligence. A lot of people,
Speaker 1: I understand, have said they think your dad would have
Speaker 1: voted for Vice President Harris, but you disagree with that assessment.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he was like me, you know, I don't think
Speaker 2: he would have like, you know, trust her been uncivil,
Speaker 2: But I don't think he would have voted for her.
Speaker 2: I mean, he never voted for a Democrat that I'm
Speaker 2: aware of his entire life, and I just can't really
Speaker 2: see that changing. And I also think the Afghanistan JH
Speaker 2: withdrawal on the part of the Biden administration would have
Speaker 2: killed him.
Speaker 3: Would have killed him.
Speaker 2: The images of the people hanging onto the plane and
Speaker 2: US leaving translators and allies in Afghanistan to basically fend
Speaker 2: for themselves and be killed, it would have He would
Speaker 2: have had a nervous breakdown over it, and I think
Speaker 2: he couldn't have forgetten that.
Speaker 1: You also feel that Israel would have been a big
Speaker 1: factor in his vote.
Speaker 2: He was a huge pro Israel person. That's where I
Speaker 2: got a lot of my advocacy from. And also the
Speaker 2: Democrats have shifted to They're much more progressive than the
Speaker 2: era of the Joe Lieberman Democrat is long gone.
Speaker 1: Let's talk about what you wrote after the election. In
Speaker 1: addition to your early comments, you wrote, the big bright
Speaker 1: side for me is that I agree with President Trump
Speaker 1: on probably seventy five to eighty five percent of his
Speaker 1: policy positions except the tariffs. Of course, I'm still an
Speaker 1: old school physical conservative. So what are some of the
Speaker 1: incoming president's policy positions that you feel comfortable with?
Speaker 2: Israel in general, anything having to do with culture war issues,
Speaker 2: which I'm sure you know. I don't know your audience,
Speaker 2: but I assume they're probably more liberal than mine disagree with.
Speaker 2: I just think his emphasis on sort of like I too,
Speaker 2: believe that everything in DC is broken and I'm for
Speaker 2: radical change. One of the things I want to emphasize,
Speaker 2: like my children are fully vaccinated. I'm grateful for vaccines
Speaker 2: and doctors, and I would never not vaccinate, Like it's
Speaker 2: very important to me. I think anyone who's had a
Speaker 2: parent that died of cancer understands how magical doctors are
Speaker 2: and they're like, you know, magicians that do miracles every day.
Speaker 2: But I too have questions about the food, like what's
Speaker 2: happening with our food?
Speaker 3: And the die is being put in our food?
Speaker 2: And you know, why are some things legal in the
Speaker 2: You know, why are skittles legal in the United States
Speaker 2: and they're not in Europe? Like some of the questions
Speaker 2: that the Make America Healthy Again movement has brought up,
Speaker 2: I have a lot of questions about I think just overall,
Speaker 2: I agree that I think DC needs radical change, and
Speaker 2: I don't know if I would have brought it in
Speaker 2: this chaotic package, because again, it's sort of like, be
Speaker 2: careful what you wish for, but.
Speaker 1: Right like and when you burned the house down, what
Speaker 1: rises from the ashes? You know? I was just asking
Speaker 1: you about sort of some of the policies, and you
Speaker 1: were saying you want radical change. One of my followers
Speaker 1: asked Megan, how you felt about mass deportation, and I
Speaker 1: want to just give this context. President elect Trump recently
Speaker 1: announced he would declare a national emergency and will use
Speaker 1: military assets to address illegal immigration through a mass deportation program.
Speaker 1: His top immigration policy advisor, Stephen Miller, has also said
Speaker 1: that military funds would be used to build vast holding
Speaker 1: facilities that would function as staging centers for immigrants as
Speaker 1: their cases progressed and they waited to be flown to
Speaker 1: other countries. But one major impediment to the vast deportation
Speaker 1: operation that the Trump team has promised in his second
Speaker 1: term is that Immigration and Customs Enforcement or ICE lacks
Speaker 1: this space to hold a significantly larger number of detainees
Speaker 1: than it currently does. Anyway, I just give that for
Speaker 1: the way of background for our listeners. And gosh, I
Speaker 1: don't know, you know obviously, and I think your dad
Speaker 1: was very involved in trying to address comprehensive immigration reform.
Speaker 1: I'm just remembering with Senator Ted Kennedy, who was Yeah,
Speaker 1: and that's something that obviously has been sorely needed Megan,
Speaker 1: as we know for decades and decades. But I don't know.
Speaker 1: When I hear about this and the images it conjures
Speaker 1: for me, it seems so inhumane and so cruel. And
Speaker 1: I know, you know, I don't know how you felt
Speaker 1: about the child separation policy, but honestly, this I am
Speaker 1: not an immigrant, and on their behalf, this strikes such
Speaker 1: fear in my heart, but knowing again full well that
Speaker 1: our immigration system is broken. So I don't know what
Speaker 1: are your thoughts.
Speaker 2: Well, first, I'm more dubvish than probably the average or
Speaker 2: publican on this. I think anyone that's lived on the
Speaker 2: border state and you know that people are coming here
Speaker 2: because a lot of times they're escaping gang violence, and
Speaker 2: you know, just wanting the same opportunities.
Speaker 1: Civil war, rights, civil war, you know, all kinds of
Speaker 1: abuse like that. I mean, anyway, not to get.
Speaker 2: Too dark, but all the things that are ugly and
Speaker 2: horrific in the world. I think the second, there are
Speaker 2: images of children being ripped from their parents or families
Speaker 2: literally being separated. It's one thing to talk about this
Speaker 2: in the ether and to talk about on the campaign trail.
Speaker 2: I think it's another thing for it to actually happen.
Speaker 2: And I am actually curious when they say they're going
Speaker 2: to get the military involved. Does that literally mean like
Speaker 2: taking our I don't know, army, National Guard and going
Speaker 2: in and rounding up people. It sounds obviously very extreme.
Speaker 2: I always wish for prudence and calm and to understand
Speaker 2: that if legal immigrants in this country are God's children
Speaker 2: looking for a better way of life the way so
Speaker 2: many of us did. That way of thinking is very
Speaker 2: passe when it comes to Republican circles. It's how I feel,
Speaker 2: It's how I'm always going to feel. And I have
Speaker 2: great trepidation and I wouldn't go so far as to
Speaker 2: say fear, but I feel the way you do that.
Speaker 3: How does this work? And what are the images going
Speaker 3: to look like?
Speaker 2: Because you know, any mother, it's a dystopian idea to have,
Speaker 2: you know, families being torn apart or somehow moved. And
Speaker 2: I think that it's going to be a really rough
Speaker 2: wake up call for a lot of Republicans that they
Speaker 2: actually end up doing this and the reaction of a
Speaker 2: lot of Americans. I also have questions about the Hispanic
Speaker 2: vote and the historic numbers of Hispanic people they voted
Speaker 2: for President Trump that weren't put off by this kind
Speaker 2: of rhetoric or this kind of policy. If they will
Speaker 2: feel any different if it actually goes into action.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know. It's just so scary to me,
Speaker 1: but we'll see what happens there. I wanted to move
Speaker 1: on to the media writ large, which you know, what
Speaker 1: is the media anyway these days?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 1: I mean, but you wrote in your sub stack. Corporate
Speaker 1: news media is a disaster. Here's how I'd fix it.
Speaker 1: I agree wholeheartedly. The media is a mess. I think
Speaker 1: in some ways it's because of the fragmentation that's occurred
Speaker 1: with digital sources. And the good news everybody has a platform.
Speaker 1: The bad news is everybody has a platform. That's sort
Speaker 1: of how I feel. But you outline some of the
Speaker 1: problems in your solutions. I'd love to get your hot takes.
Speaker 1: I hope that's not triggering from the view, but on
Speaker 1: what you think needs to happen. Because as somebody who's
Speaker 1: been in traditional media now is doing my own thing,
Speaker 1: you know, I've given this a lot of thought, read
Speaker 1: a lot about it. I'm on the board of the
Speaker 1: Shorenstein Institute at Harvard, where I just went to my
Speaker 1: first board meeting. Obviously this was topic number one, So.
Speaker 3: I'm so sorry to be a philistine. What is the
Speaker 3: Schorenstein to do?
Speaker 1: So it's named after Jones Schorenstein, who was a journalist.
Speaker 1: I think her parents named it. She died of cancer.
Speaker 1: And Nancy Gibbs, who I love, used to be editor
Speaker 1: of Time magazine, who's a beautiful writer. She is the
Speaker 1: head of the Institute now, and she asked me if
Speaker 1: I would come and be on the board. So basically,
Speaker 1: really it's about media and public policy and how we
Speaker 1: fix media. So this has really been top of mine
Speaker 1: for me. And I just interviewed Michael Tomaski, who's the
Speaker 1: editor of the New Republic. He wrote a big article
Speaker 1: about sort of the power and the reach and the
Speaker 1: influence of sort of the right wing media industrial complex.
Speaker 1: So I've heard sort of his point of view as well.
Speaker 1: So I would love to hear sort of what you
Speaker 1: think what's gone wrong and how to fix it. And
Speaker 1: you have thirty seconds. I'm kidding, my god, You're totally kidding.
Speaker 3: You're Katie Kurk.
Speaker 2: So I feel like you're, you know, your perspective, it's
Speaker 2: probably more interesting than mine.
Speaker 3: You're, you know, iconic journalist. You know, I'll give my
Speaker 3: hot tape, but would you mind giving me your hot take?
Speaker 2: Sure?
Speaker 1: Sure?
Speaker 3: I think that for me.
Speaker 2: One of the things to outline was I really am
Speaker 2: sick of the token Republican on panels on like like
Speaker 2: seeing an MSNBC. I also don't like the token Democrat
Speaker 2: on places like The Five. I you know, have friends
Speaker 2: that work on that show and it's a great job.
Speaker 2: It's just not my style because I think that the
Speaker 2: politics of America is a kaleidoscope, especially like in my
Speaker 2: home state of Arizona, they're more independence and libertarians registered
Speaker 2: to vote than any other state in the country. And
Speaker 2: I think you're talking about the Democratic Party. You're talking
Speaker 2: about progressives, more traditional Clinton Democrats, McCain, Republicans, MAGA Republicans,
Speaker 2: independence libertarians, Like, that's what America is. And I think
Speaker 2: the old trope of just like one person and we
Speaker 2: pile on them is very dated. I just know from
Speaker 2: my experience. And I talked about this in my sub
Speaker 2: stack that and please subscribe to myself stack mcainae that gone,
Speaker 2: thank you.
Speaker 3: I just launched it a few weeks ago for substack.
Speaker 3: So fun. By the way, speaking of new media, Yeah,
Speaker 3: and you.
Speaker 1: Know a lot of people are making really nice livings
Speaker 1: writing for substack. I think it's an awesome platform for
Speaker 1: a lot of people.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I've been really happy there anyway.
Speaker 2: Uh, you know, I think for me just having a
Speaker 2: different variety of journalists. I don't think it's good to
Speaker 2: only come from Ivy League schools and only have progressives
Speaker 2: and liberals working.
Speaker 3: I talk about my sub stack.
Speaker 2: How two years into the view, I actually had to
Speaker 2: hire someone from outside to be my producer because it
Speaker 2: was just too hard to have people who didn't even
Speaker 2: you know, sort.
Speaker 1: Of like tall secure language. Really.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So I would just make it much more diverse
Speaker 2: in always, and I mean not racially.
Speaker 1: Politically, socioeconomically, you know, in terms of geographically. That's one
Speaker 1: of the things we talked about at this board meeting,
Speaker 1: that diversity needs to include geographic diversity, life experience diversity,
Speaker 1: you know, small towns and people who went to community
Speaker 1: colleges and just represent, as you said, the diversity of
Speaker 1: our country.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I also think respectfully because there's a lot of people
Speaker 2: who are you know, have a lot of experience in
Speaker 2: media that I really trust and like a lot. Again,
Speaker 2: I it's not this not a whole swath, but there's
Speaker 2: some people that don't think do a good job, that
Speaker 2: I think are just making things worse, that I don't
Speaker 2: think deserve the platforms they have. And I would love
Speaker 2: to see some new blood hosting some places. And I
Speaker 2: just would also love to see there are journalists out there,
Speaker 2: there are still true journalists. I mean, this is a
Speaker 2: very respectful conversation, Katie. You know, I won't always get
Speaker 2: that in different places I go to. And I think
Speaker 2: that just having people who are interested in the story
Speaker 2: and interested in what's happening in America versus projecting emotion
Speaker 2: in the way that is displayed right now is really counterproductive.
Speaker 2: I also have been just fascinated by this recent news story,
Speaker 2: not to date this podcast, but you know, seeing Joe
Speaker 2: and Mika Prasinski talk about how they went to mar
Speaker 2: A Lago to meet with Trump. I never thought I
Speaker 2: would see that happen. I was fascinated they decided to
Speaker 2: do that. Whether it ends up being good or bad
Speaker 2: for their career, I don't know, but I thought it
Speaker 2: was certainly an interesting signal and symbol that they realized
Speaker 2: maybe they've gone too far. And I like them, and
Speaker 2: we have a very good mutual friend and they've been
Speaker 2: very kind to me. I don't have a problem with Joemika.
Speaker 2: I'm just saying I was interested in it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's interesting. I mean my quick take. I mean,
Speaker 1: we could talk about this for hours, Megan, but I
Speaker 1: wish there would be less fight and more fixing. I
Speaker 1: think that journalism has gotten away from really talking about solutions,
Speaker 1: and there is so much name calling. But I also
Speaker 1: feel that, you know, as the pie became the slices
Speaker 1: became smaller and smaller. Right, the model to have ratings
Speaker 1: and to get people to watch people had to appeal
Speaker 1: to a certain segment of the population. That means that
Speaker 1: oftentimes people were getting affirmation instead of information right, and
Speaker 1: Kara Swisher calls it engagement through enragement. I blame Fox
Speaker 1: News a lot for this because I don't hear a
Speaker 1: lot of legitimate criticisms of Donald Trump on Fox News,
Speaker 1: and it does feel like a propaganda arm to me
Speaker 1: of Donald Trump. I think that MSNBC obviously is talking
Speaker 1: to a certain segment of the population, and probably mainstream
Speaker 1: media in general is more liberal than conservative. I think
Speaker 1: journalists tend to be more liberal thinkers. And I think
Speaker 1: it's hard because opinion journalism has kind of taken over
Speaker 1: the space right, you don't necessarily have people kind of talking.
Speaker 1: But I've also struggled with this megant is that how
Speaker 1: do you cover Donald Trump accurately? You know, how do
Speaker 1: you search for truth and how do you do fact
Speaker 1: based journalism when he traffics in so much misinformation and
Speaker 1: therein lies the rub for me, if you point out
Speaker 1: the things he says that are just patently false, then
Speaker 1: you're automatically labeled as biased. And that is to me
Speaker 1: the conundrum a lot of journalists are finding themselves in.
Speaker 2: Well, like I felt like a not a crazy person,
Speaker 2: but I definitely have this moment of one of the
Speaker 2: things I have to do. And I'm a conservative opinion commentator,
Speaker 2: so people know what they're going to get from me.
Speaker 2: But I'm not someone who drank kool aid and can't
Speaker 2: see the forest for the trees in life. And I
Speaker 2: had a conversation yesterday about why is it that Matt
Speaker 2: gates ethics report isn't something I'm allowed to see when
Speaker 2: he wants to hold one of the most powerful positions
Speaker 2: in US government. I don't understand why is Speaker Mike
Speaker 2: Johnson saying it's irrelevant. Clearly something's in it, it's relevant.
Speaker 2: And the amount of people who are saying you're anti Magat,
Speaker 2: you're trying to hurt Trump, you're trying you know, you're bad, whatever,
Speaker 2: just because I want to know what's in the ethics
Speaker 2: report of the very serious allegations against Matt Gates. That's
Speaker 2: the part that's when you're talking about On my side,
Speaker 2: that's the part that really scares me is getting in
Speaker 2: such an echo chamber and such a point that you
Speaker 2: feel like there will be social and career retribution if
Speaker 2: you say something like that out loud. And I just
Speaker 2: feel like, sometimes I feel like I'm in the twilight zone,
Speaker 2: like the fact that I can't have a conversation about
Speaker 2: why I think I wouldn't trust Matt Gates to babysit
Speaker 2: my kids.
Speaker 3: Let alone be attorney general.
Speaker 2: You know, to a lot of people, that's I'm saying
Speaker 2: something very untorn.
Speaker 1: Because you're not pledging blind loyalty and fealty to Donald Trump,
Speaker 1: which is honestly kind of frightening because that is sort
Speaker 1: of the sign of an authoritarian regime taking hold, isn't it.
Speaker 2: I mean, my first reaction, and I tweeted this when
Speaker 2: Matt Gates was chosen, as I was like, am I
Speaker 2: going to jail?
Speaker 3: Because I'm not.
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm joking obviously, because I'm not a maga person,
Speaker 2: but yeah, it's really scary, and he's clearly the choice
Speaker 2: is clearly made because Matt Gates is a sick of
Speaker 2: fant who will do anything in everything that Trump wants,
Speaker 2: and to me, it's dangerous not to have checks and
Speaker 2: balances in positions of power. And I've just been surprised
Speaker 2: at people like Mike Johnson, who are supposed to be,
Speaker 2: you know, by all accounts, a deeply religious man, and
Speaker 2: I was told a more normal person in power. And
Speaker 2: you know, he's taken the selfie's on the plane, eaton
Speaker 2: McDonald's too. And I don't know, I have as much
Speaker 2: criticism for my party as I do the left. I
Speaker 2: just I you know, people have just been more interested
Speaker 2: in my criticism of Democrats recently because of the historic
Speaker 2: election loss. But I I really fear the cult of
Speaker 2: personality and the amount of power everyone has going forward.
Speaker 3: I really do.
Speaker 2: I really like it's a really anxiety inducing.
Speaker 1: I wanted to read something by New York Times White
Speaker 1: House correspondent Peter Baker about what Donald Trump has been
Speaker 1: doing since he won the election. Somehow, disruption doesn't begin
Speaker 1: to cover it upheaval might be closer revolution. Maybe. In
Speaker 1: less than two weeks since being elected again, Donald J.
Speaker 1: Trumps embarked on a new campaign to shatter the institutions
Speaker 1: of Washington, as no incoming president has in his lifetime,
Speaker 1: he's rolled a giant grenade into the middle of the
Speaker 1: nation's capital and watched with mischievous glee to see who
Speaker 1: runs away and who throws themselves on it. Suffice it
Speaker 1: to say, so far, there have been more of the
Speaker 1: former than the latter. Mister Trump has said that real
Speaker 1: powers the ability to engender fear, and he seems to
Speaker 1: have achieved that. Mister Trump's early transition moves amount to
Speaker 1: a generational stress test for the system. If Republicans bow
Speaker 1: to his demand to recess the Senate so that he
Speaker 1: can install appointees without confirmation, it would rewrite the balance
Speaker 1: of power established by the Founders more than two centuries ago.
Speaker 1: And if he gets his way on selections for some
Speaker 1: of the most important posts in government, he would put
Speaker 1: in place loyalists intent on blowing up the very departments
Speaker 1: they would lead. He's such a good writer, isn't he.
Speaker 3: I'm like, it's very yes, like the movie's grug.
Speaker 1: I mean, do you think that this is what Republicans
Speaker 1: want and the people who voted for Donald Trump really want?
Speaker 1: I mean, he is going in there with guns flazing, Megan,
Speaker 1: like he wants to blow the place up.
Speaker 2: Clearly so anyone that's ever made an impulsive decision in
Speaker 2: their life, and I certainly have. I have a foot
Speaker 2: tattoo to prove it at that moment where you wake
Speaker 2: up the next day and you're like, I have the
Speaker 2: most hideous foot tattoo. I thought it was cool in
Speaker 2: the morning, and I still it's embarrassing. It looks like
Speaker 2: a blob. It's terrible, And I feel like, be careful.
Speaker 2: What you wish for is very important in this moment,
Speaker 2: because I too want I want radical change within the
Speaker 2: norm of understanding what radical change can look like. I
Speaker 2: do not want the foundations of the country imploded, and
Speaker 2: I do not want people to feel unsafe or unheard.
Speaker 2: And I think the idea of taking a recess and
Speaker 2: not having normal hearings for these people is bat blank insane.
Speaker 3: I know it's a family show. I don't want to share.
Speaker 1: No, this is actually not a family show.
Speaker 2: You guys say bad shit insane. I think it's I
Speaker 2: think it's lunacy. I think it is lunacy, and I
Speaker 2: think we have a right to know who we are
Speaker 2: putting in these places. And again, if the question I
Speaker 2: have for people who want to do this in the recess.
Speaker 2: What are you trying to hide? What can I not know?
Speaker 2: So I'm very fearful of that. I don't think all
Speaker 2: the people are going to be destroying things from the
Speaker 2: inside out. I certainly don't think Senator Marco Rubio's intentions
Speaker 2: or that. I don't think the new head of Transportation,
Speaker 2: Sean Duffy, who I know him and his wife very well,
Speaker 2: I don't think he's that kind of person at all.
Speaker 2: So I do think there's some choices, like Doug Bergham
Speaker 2: is a very lovely man from North Dakota.
Speaker 1: Those are kind of in the minority, aren't they. Megan,
Speaker 1: I mean you look at Pete Hegseth, the Secretary Defense pick.
Speaker 1: You've meant Matt Gates where I think people many people
Speaker 1: are appalled by that. I think there are significant concerns
Speaker 1: about RFK Junior. I know that you said your kids
Speaker 1: are vaccinated. I'm curious. I know you had him on
Speaker 1: your podcast if you're concerned about some of I haven't.
Speaker 3: I haven't ever before who he was now, or.
Speaker 1: I've never interviewed him. I think I met him once,
Speaker 1: you know, when he was primarily an environmentalist with river
Speaker 1: keepers and cared deeply about the environment. But no, I
Speaker 1: don't run in those circles, Megan, I don't know. I
Speaker 1: don't hang out with the Kennedy's, even though I admire
Speaker 1: many of them. But but I mean a lot of
Speaker 1: people I think the fact that he'll be in charge
Speaker 1: of the CDC, the nih FDA, the Centers for Medicare
Speaker 1: and Medicaid Service, the Office of the Surgeon General are
Speaker 1: very nervous, not only because of his claims that vaccines
Speaker 1: are connected to autism, which I mean the MMR vaccine,
Speaker 1: which has been disproven, as you know, and the guy
Speaker 1: who made those claims lost his medical license as a
Speaker 1: result of professional misconduct, you know. I mean, people talk
Speaker 1: about the COVID vaccine and there's a lot of I think,
Speaker 1: retrospective thinking about what moves were made during COVID. But
Speaker 1: you know, whenever people criticize that, for me, Megan, I think, well,
Speaker 1: what if all these kids had died, you know, what
Speaker 1: if there had been a very different outcome. And I
Speaker 1: think it's easy to say you shouldn't have done this,
Speaker 1: you shouldn't have done that. You know, science is not
Speaker 1: It's an art in many ways, you know, you learn
Speaker 1: as you go this was a brand new virus, and
Speaker 1: I think that the medical professionals in charge did the
Speaker 1: best they could with the information they had. And I
Speaker 1: don't know this whole like could have would have show
Speaker 1: of stuff I think always gives me pause, And I,
Speaker 1: like you, you know, I'm very touched by cancer lost
Speaker 1: my husband and my sister, and I have such great
Speaker 1: reverence for science and for scientists that it's such an
Speaker 1: uffront to me when people trash people like Anthony Fauci
Speaker 1: and experts and everyone makes mistakes. I mean, it's just
Speaker 1: an imperfect exercise to kind of deal with something like this.
Speaker 1: But I don't know. I worry about Rfka Junior, I guess,
Speaker 1: is what I'm trying to say.
Speaker 2: I understand how he became as popular as he is
Speaker 2: because I think, again, like in hindsight, there's a lot
Speaker 2: of things that happened during COVID which I would really
Speaker 2: blame much more on, like teachers' unions than doctors necessarily,
Speaker 2: that really radicalize a lot of women in my life,
Speaker 2: a lot, especially moms and young children. And again, like
Speaker 2: you said, hindsight's twenty twenty, you know, go back in
Speaker 2: our time machine whatever. But I do think what the
Speaker 2: things that's really hard for me is the criticism of NIH.
Speaker 2: And again I'm not like a bureaucrat. I don't know
Speaker 2: the internal workings of NAHE. But what I do know
Speaker 2: is that when my dad had brain cancer, there's only
Speaker 2: a proton beam, which is this like tiny little microscopic
Speaker 2: beam that eliminates cancer like they do the laser outside
Speaker 2: of cancer that makes it the tumors like collapse on themselves.
Speaker 3: And I remember that's where.
Speaker 2: We took my dad to get his treatment there in
Speaker 2: Mayo Clinic, and I remember at the time being like,
Speaker 2: this is like alchemy. This is the craziest The fact
Speaker 2: that this exists and this was invented and these nurses
Speaker 2: and these doctors can make tumors disappear with this laser
Speaker 2: is just the most miraculous thing. And at the time,
Speaker 2: I remember talking to so many doctors about the future
Speaker 2: of cancer treatment, as I'm sure you have to, and
Speaker 2: there's so much when it comes to immune therapy and
Speaker 2: stem cells therapy and things that I'm so excited about
Speaker 2: and hopeful for.
Speaker 1: And of course AI is going to change the field dramatically.
Speaker 2: Yes, And I think again the misunderstanding if you've ever
Speaker 2: been in a state of sheer desperation which you and
Speaker 2: I have been in, just wanting people to fix this
Speaker 2: for you and to give you hope. The thankless things
Speaker 2: doctors and nurses have to go through every day and caregivers.
Speaker 2: I just that's what the problem, the biggest problem I
Speaker 2: have with all of this is that science, like you said,
Speaker 2: is a practice of medicine. And I mean not to
Speaker 2: give you like TMI, but I had to have a
Speaker 2: hysteroctopy like two weeks ago, and when it was happening
Speaker 2: for people don't know what that is, like the doctor
Speaker 2: puts a camera inside your uterist to make sure you
Speaker 2: don't have like polyps or anything, and I was like,
Speaker 2: this is crazy, and like fifteen minutes I can mind
Speaker 2: out if there's anything wrong with my guts, Like what
Speaker 2: a what of we're in? And I just feel like
Speaker 2: the disrespect towards scientists and doctors and things like that
Speaker 2: is very alarming to me. And I'm I continue to
Speaker 2: be so grateful for vaccines and.
Speaker 1: Well, you know, you know they have saved I look
Speaker 1: this up. They have saved and estimated one hundred and
Speaker 1: fifty four million lives since night teen seventy four when
Speaker 1: the World Health Organization launched its Global Immunization Program. This
Speaker 1: equivalent of saving six lives every single minute.
Speaker 3: It's amazing.
Speaker 2: And as everyone or anyone who you know has my
Speaker 2: mother talked about this that you know there are African
Speaker 2: nations and places that don't have vaccines.
Speaker 3: Other than food and water, it's the main thing that they.
Speaker 2: Want from NGOs and places to go in and help
Speaker 2: their communities. And I just think it's a really excessive,
Speaker 2: decadent culture that doesn't appreciate what we're given. And when
Speaker 2: you hear about like outbreaks of measles and things like that,
Speaker 2: it scares the living hell out of me.
Speaker 1: People are worried about polio returning as well. I mean,
Speaker 1: given all that we've discussed, so do you feel confident
Speaker 1: that RFK is the right person? And by the way,
Speaker 1: I agree like chronic health problems are killing Americans, all
Speaker 1: these things obesity. I agree what you said about die
Speaker 1: but you know there are ways to address these issues
Speaker 1: without blowing up the entire place.
Speaker 2: It's not my choice. He would not be my choice.
Speaker 2: After I interviewed him. He's a very pleasant and charming man,
Speaker 2: but I just it's a lot.
Speaker 3: Of it is just too woo woo for me.
Speaker 2: It's too like, you know, I just really rely on
Speaker 2: doctors and scientists who have a lot of record and
Speaker 2: has spent their life dedicated to examining and studying health
Speaker 2: and medicine. And yeah, I look. I texted my pediatrician
Speaker 2: and was like, uh, our vaccine? Am I still going
Speaker 2: to to vaccine my kids? Like if he becomes you know,
Speaker 2: the head of this, so it's not my choice.
Speaker 1: What did your pediatricians say? Yes?
Speaker 3: He said yes, but it is scary.
Speaker 1: I mean, we could get and I asked somebody to
Speaker 1: write a piece for us. Jeremy Foulest, who's an emergency
Speaker 1: room doctor in Boston who I talked a lot to
Speaker 1: during COVID. You know, it is like to leave getting vaccinated,
Speaker 1: to make it a choice rather than a mandate, I
Speaker 1: think has some serious public health consequences. I was reading
Speaker 1: a lot about this, you know, like strong encouragement versus
Speaker 1: a mandate and kind of what works better. But if
Speaker 1: you don't have heard immunity, it can put a lot
Speaker 1: of people in the community at risk. I mean, I'm
Speaker 1: not a doctor or scientist, but I worry. I worry
Speaker 1: about RFK Junior. But that's me.
Speaker 3: No, I did.
Speaker 2: And I also think just character wise, you know, again
Speaker 2: it's not a family show, but you know, he had
Speaker 2: some kind of affair recently with a journalist, and you know,
Speaker 2: if that's how you're spending your time. I do wonder
Speaker 2: about like the focus on the issues of the nation,
Speaker 2: and I think, again.
Speaker 1: I'm old fashioned that way too, Like I like my
Speaker 1: public officials to keep it in their pants. Call me crazy.
Speaker 2: I did too, and I'm but that's but you and
Speaker 2: I are in the minority, I guess. But I just thought,
Speaker 2: like it's so recent and it was with a journalist,
Speaker 2: and you know, I don't want people with high levels
Speaker 2: of intelligence and access to you know.
Speaker 1: But there's also of other weird stuff like the bear
Speaker 1: cub in Central Park and all sorts of crazy shit.
Speaker 3: I don't want to end this on like a dystope
Speaker 3: a note.
Speaker 2: But I got to screen that movie Civil War that
Speaker 2: came out last year with Kirsten Dunston.
Speaker 3: It's about a modern American Civil war.
Speaker 1: I saw it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I had a very when I watched it.
Speaker 2: I was like sweating, I broke out in hives, and
Speaker 2: I was like, this is very realistic, and they filmed
Speaker 2: it in the area where I live in, or it's
Speaker 2: supposed to be the area I live in, like right
Speaker 2: outside DC. And it's not that I think we're going
Speaker 2: to go into a civil war, because I don't actually
Speaker 2: think it's going to happen, but I worry about the
Speaker 2: complete dismantling of everything and what happens next. And I just,
Speaker 2: you know, when I get into my very dark place,
Speaker 2: I think of Kirsten Dunst in that movie. And again
Speaker 2: I don't I don't want to be hyperbolic and tell
Speaker 2: you I think we're going into civil war, but I
Speaker 2: do worry about you know, there's a lot of good
Speaker 2: in our country too, and the foundations of the country,
Speaker 2: I think are the greatest foundations of any country in
Speaker 2: world history. And to just completely eliminate it, it's crazy.
Speaker 1: I wanted to ask you about another Donald Trump's picks
Speaker 1: because she's a good friend of yours, and that's Tulsey
Speaker 1: Gabbard for Director of National Intelligence.
Speaker 3: Everybody's asking me about her, everybody's out giving me about her.
Speaker 1: Really well, yeah, I'm sorry to add to the chorus,
Speaker 1: but I know she's your eldest daughter's godmother. But there. Honestly,
Speaker 1: I've read a lot of stuff that gives me pause,
Speaker 1: and I wonder if you could talk about it. And
Speaker 1: those things specifically are that she traveled to Syria and
Speaker 1: met with President Asad, the authoritarian president of Syria, whom
Speaker 1: I actually have interviewed. The day after Vladimir Putin began
Speaker 1: a full scale invasion of Ukraine, she blamed the United
Speaker 1: States and NATO for provoking the war by ignoring Russia's
Speaker 1: security concerns, and after she was named for her role,
Speaker 1: a Russian paper wrote a glowing review saying the CIA
Speaker 1: and the FBI are trembling and that Ukrainians consider her
Speaker 1: an agent other Russian state. So tell us.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think one of the reasons.
Speaker 2: So Tolcy and I met about eight years ago, and
Speaker 2: we actually met through Van Jones Sann's Van Jones and
Speaker 2: I had been very critical of her meeting with Bishar
Speaker 2: al Assad and he texted me and was like, you
Speaker 2: don't know her, And he texted her saying because she
Speaker 2: her campaign had answered in a very intense way and
Speaker 2: said you don't know Megan, and he basically like set
Speaker 2: us up on a friend date and that lunch our first.
Speaker 3: Meeting, I felt so seen by another woman.
Speaker 2: I felt like we were both bonded over what it's
Speaker 2: like to be demonized in the media. We both had
Speaker 2: at the point gone through fertility issues, and we're bonding
Speaker 2: over that. We both felt very alone in so many
Speaker 2: media spaces. And I think the main thing that I
Speaker 2: know about her, and I know her character, we're very
Speaker 2: very good friends. They talked to her almost every day.
Speaker 2: The main thing about her is that she wants peace
Speaker 2: in all forms, and she will meet with Satan himself
Speaker 2: to get it. And I believe that every way she
Speaker 2: makes in her life in general is all about trying
Speaker 2: to find peace and prevent war. She is a soldier
Speaker 2: in the army. I think he's a lieutenant colonel. And
Speaker 2: I always thought, if people like Debbie Westerermn Schultz really
Speaker 2: think she's a Russian agent, why hasn't the military done
Speaker 2: an investigation. I also want to know why Bernie Sanders
Speaker 2: has put out tweets saying this is disgusting slur and
Speaker 2: defended her against, you know, the accusations that she's somehow
Speaker 2: for Russia. One of my dear friends of Vladimir Kara
Speaker 2: Murza was actually imprisoned in a Russian gulag for years.
Speaker 2: He was, by a miracle helped to be released by
Speaker 2: prison exchange with President Biden. And I think the idea
Speaker 2: that I would associate with someone who was compromised by
Speaker 2: Russia is insulting to me.
Speaker 3: And I also think that I wish everyone.
Speaker 2: Would sort of get out of the habit of saying
Speaker 2: Russia is involved for everything like Russia Gate, which ended
Speaker 2: up being nothing. With President Trump, that doesn't mean we shouldn't,
Speaker 2: you know, be very wary of Putin and Russia in general, especially.
Speaker 1: There for some shenan against I think in Georgia with
Speaker 1: Russian intelligence during this selection right, there were thirty bomb
Speaker 1: threats targeting black voters at a number of Georgia voting
Speaker 1: centers that were orchestrated by the Russians. God. So, I mean,
Speaker 1: you're right, we can't blame them for everything, but maybe
Speaker 1: we can blame them for a lot of things. I
Speaker 1: don't know.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's very serious. I would never negate that. Look,
Speaker 2: she is someone who evokes very intense reactions on both sides.
Speaker 2: I love her very much. I know the person I
Speaker 2: trust her implicitly. I was very happy when she was
Speaker 2: chosen because I don't. I neither believe those things, and
Speaker 2: I think they're pretty absurd. And I also think she's
Speaker 2: getting a lot of heat because she's a former Democrat.
Speaker 2: But I believe she's going to be easily confirmed, and
Speaker 2: I think that people are going to have to come
Speaker 2: to terms with the fact that there are a lot
Speaker 2: of soldiers like Tulci who have been and including by
Speaker 2: the way, both my brothers who have been through generations
Speaker 2: of war, who are very war weary and have become
Speaker 2: much more isolation in their view of America's role globally.
Speaker 2: Tolty and I don't agree on a lot of things.
Speaker 2: We're actually very opposite in many ways. You know, she's
Speaker 2: like hyper healthy, works out all the time and like
Speaker 2: I eat McDonald's. Like we're very opposite in a lot
Speaker 2: of ways, but the core values of who we are
Speaker 2: are very similar. And I wish people would see this
Speaker 2: side to her that I know so well, and I
Speaker 2: feel like she never really gets the opportunity to be
Speaker 2: seen as anything in this like dimensional way that a
Speaker 2: lot of women in politics, particularly on the left, get to.
Speaker 2: And they love her very much, and I'm very proud
Speaker 2: of her, and I understand that a lot of people
Speaker 2: have questions, and I'm not her mouth piece, obviously, but
Speaker 2: I just I'm good friends with her, and she's a
Speaker 2: really good person and has helped me through a lot
Speaker 2: of dark times.
Speaker 1: In my life. So you think she's misunderstood, but you
Speaker 1: don't really agree with some of her policies. Is that
Speaker 1: a fair assessment?
Speaker 3: Sure, but I agree with more than probably people think.
Speaker 2: But she doesn't agree with mine either, Like we have
Speaker 2: health healthy, you know, I wouldn't say arguments, but you know,
Speaker 2: we've certainly had many conversations about politics in the past.
Speaker 2: But I don't know if you have anyone like this
Speaker 2: in your life. I just don't know anyone else who
Speaker 2: has been turned into a caricature in the media the
Speaker 2: way we both have by a lot of people.
Speaker 3: And you know, at the.
Speaker 2: Time, I was working on the view when we first met,
Speaker 2: and I just felt really and she would say the
Speaker 2: same thing. We just I just felt really connected to her,
Speaker 2: and I just feel like I really, really really know her,
Speaker 2: I really really know her family, and she's a really
Speaker 2: good person.
Speaker 1: Well, you bring me to my final question, which is,
Speaker 1: how can we have more conversations like this? How can
Speaker 1: we have two people who disagree on a lot of issues,
Speaker 1: and how we approach and tackle some of the thorniest
Speaker 1: problems in our country and have civil, respectful conversations. How
Speaker 1: can we encourage other people to do this?
Speaker 2: Megan, I mean, I always lead with love in every
Speaker 2: part of my life that I'm capable of. I'm not perfect,
Speaker 2: and I certainly have still have a temper and I
Speaker 2: can still be like whatever.
Speaker 3: But I think age and having kids is true.
Speaker 2: I just want to have be in a world that
Speaker 2: I want my kids to be in, and this level
Speaker 2: of division is not is not I think tolerable or sustainable.
Speaker 2: And I think I'm open to I will talk to
Speaker 2: anyone as long as it's respectful. I will talk to
Speaker 2: anyone on any side, as long as I know that
Speaker 2: there's not going to be screaming and name calling or
Speaker 2: anything like that. And I just think you can only
Speaker 2: lead by example and control how you behave and speak.
Speaker 2: And I also think we should reward platforms that have
Speaker 2: bipartisan conversations right in this moment, it's actually what I'm
Speaker 2: the most interested in listening to across the board. I'm
Speaker 2: interested in both sides coming together and discussing where we're at,
Speaker 2: and I think the reflection of how bad the ratings
Speaker 2: are on MSNBC and CNN right now show that maybe
Speaker 2: there's an appetite for more, you know, interesting converse, nuanced conversations.
Speaker 1: If people aren't turning news off fall together, right, Some
Speaker 1: people just are so burned out on politics and feel
Speaker 1: such a sense of despair. I don't know if they'd
Speaker 1: even want to listen to our conversation I.
Speaker 2: And I have friends like that who just can't even
Speaker 2: listen to it anymore. But I'm an eternal optimist. I
Speaker 2: really am, and I really hope for the better and
Speaker 2: for me the issues I have with President Trump and
Speaker 2: the division, I think that you know, and I blame
Speaker 2: both sides for the division we're in, But for me,
Speaker 2: it's like there.
Speaker 3: Will only be four years of this, at least for me.
Speaker 2: One of the things that has given me solace with
Speaker 2: the anxiety I have about the Trump era is that
Speaker 2: there is an end point to this. After four years,
Speaker 2: he cannot be president again, and at least.
Speaker 1: At least not that we know of, right unless he
Speaker 1: tries to change the law, which he kind of suggested
Speaker 1: to members of Congress, I don't know what I'm.
Speaker 3: Gonna do about.
Speaker 1: It's like, I'm sorry, we're back in the dystopian.
Speaker 2: Sorry for me, and the hypothetical end point has been
Speaker 2: has given me solace. And I really think there's a
Speaker 2: lot of really interesting people in the Democrat Party that
Speaker 2: are really being, you know, amazing figures right now, saying
Speaker 2: things I really am responding to and seem to really
Speaker 2: get it. So like who I mean, I love Senator Fetterman.
Speaker 2: He's my favorite Democrat. Mayor Pete. I saw something uh
Speaker 2: he did at I believe Harvard maybe you were there
Speaker 2: at the same time, talking about the future. And he's
Speaker 2: just very I don't agree with his so much of
Speaker 2: his policies, but I love his tone.
Speaker 3: It's very calm, it's very like nurturing.
Speaker 1: It's very like so intelligent.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and he just he he makes me, he relaxes me.
Speaker 2: I don't know if that sometimes with politicians it's just
Speaker 2: like there their area and their their vibe makes you
Speaker 2: feel calm. And I think he has a really brave future.
Speaker 2: I always have. Who else, Seth Moulton. I think he's
Speaker 2: some interesting comments recently, Corey Booker. I still really think
Speaker 2: that he's like, you know, very measured and normal and
Speaker 2: will work with the other side. There's quite a few
Speaker 2: I would point to that I think are are you
Speaker 2: know that unfortunately the most radical sides drown out the
Speaker 2: interesting things that they're saying.
Speaker 1: Well, Meghan, I could talk to you for a lot longer,
Speaker 1: but we've gone on and on, and I really appreciate
Speaker 1: you spending time with me. I've really enjoyed it. I
Speaker 1: was looking forward to our conversation and I'm really grateful
Speaker 1: for it. So thank you so much.
Speaker 3: Thank you, Katie. You're a legend icon.
Speaker 2: And I have a baby podcast where I interview people,
Speaker 2: and I was like, there's a reason why Katie herks
Speaker 2: Katy Correig this like you are following up doing like
Speaker 2: baking questions while research.
Speaker 1: I was like, well, I've had I've had a lot
Speaker 1: of practice, Meghan, like forty plus years. I'm sure you're
Speaker 1: doing a great job. But again, you have a substack,
Speaker 1: and what is your substack called.
Speaker 2: Megan McCain dot substack dot com. And I have a
Speaker 2: podcast called Citizen McCain, which is very bipartisan too. I've
Speaker 2: only since the election, I've only had Democrats on.
Speaker 1: So we'll look forward to listening to those episodes as well.
Speaker 1: Thanks Megan, thank you, and give my best to your
Speaker 1: mom too. She's doing incredible work.
Speaker 3: She's in Rome and she's never come back. Katie.
Speaker 2: I wanted her to come back, and she's like, that's
Speaker 2: all Trump's over, and I was like, we're just going
Speaker 2: to live in Rome, Like okay.
Speaker 3: She's just going to come back from Rome that till
Speaker 3: it's over.
Speaker 2: She's like she's one of those people and she's like,
Speaker 2: come visit me in Rome. And obviously room's incredible, but
Speaker 2: I don't know, it's just I think she's just like
Speaker 2: she's been more emotionally impacted obviously than anyone, so I
Speaker 2: think she's just like peace.
Speaker 1: Well, she's done incredible work. Tell everyone what she's been doing,
Speaker 1: because I don't think everyone knows.
Speaker 3: My mother.
Speaker 2: Haads the World Food Program and she was the Ambassador
Speaker 2: World Food Program and then she became the I think
Speaker 2: she has an official title, but she leads it and
Speaker 2: she focuses on food security and making sure that nations
Speaker 2: like Somalia get the food that they need. And literally
Speaker 2: every time I talk to her or call her, she's
Speaker 2: in a different and she's very dedicated to her work.
Speaker 3: And she's a true humanitarian.
Speaker 2: And I always say, you know, I'm so controversial and
Speaker 2: people love me or hate me, but everybody loves my mom.
Speaker 1: Like ever she's doing, she's definitely doing God's work. So
Speaker 1: thank you, thank you, Thanks for listening everyone. If you
Speaker 1: have a question for me, a subject you want us
Speaker 1: to cover, or you want to share your thoughts about
Speaker 1: how you navigate this crazy world, reach out. You can
Speaker 1: leave a short message at six oh nine five point two,
Speaker 1: five to five oh five, or you can send me
Speaker 1: a DM on Instagram. I would love to hear from you.
Speaker 1: Next Question is a production of iHeartMedia and Katie Kuric Media.
Speaker 1: The executive producers are Me, Katie Kuric, and Courtney Ltz.
Speaker 1: Our supervising producer is Ryan Martz, and our producers are
Speaker 1: Adriana Fazzio and Meredith Barnes. Julian Weller composed our theme music.
Speaker 1: For more information about today's episode, or to sign up
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