WEBVTT - America at a Crossroads with Meghan McCain 0:00:04.400 --> 0:00:07.600 Hi everyone, I'm Kitty Kuric and this is next question 0:00:11.119 --> 0:00:14.080 Megan McCain. First of all, thank you so much for 0:00:14.120 --> 0:00:14.680 being here. 0:00:15.320 --> 0:00:17.799 Oh my gosh, Katie, thank you so much for having me. 0:00:17.960 --> 0:00:20.000 And I've known you so long and I'm such a 0:00:20.000 --> 0:00:22.400 fan of all your work and I'm so gladded to 0:00:22.400 --> 0:00:24.760 be here. I actually just saw some clips of an 0:00:24.760 --> 0:00:27.000 interview you just did with Jen Zaki that's all over 0:00:27.000 --> 0:00:27.760 the internet, and I. 0:00:28.800 --> 0:00:31.120 Went to Played eight with a girlfriend over the weekend. 0:00:31.240 --> 0:00:32.920 She was like, I just saw this amazing interview with 0:00:33.000 --> 0:00:34.360 Katie Kirk and I was like, I'm going on a 0:00:34.440 --> 0:00:35.120 Joe next week. 0:00:35.159 --> 0:00:39.240 So well, you know, I really appreciate you sitting down 0:00:39.320 --> 0:00:42.199 with me because, Megan, I know we disagree on a 0:00:42.280 --> 0:00:45.040 number of issues, but I don't know about you. I 0:00:45.120 --> 0:00:47.280 really don't want to live in a country where half 0:00:47.280 --> 0:00:50.879 the population doesn't talk to the other half of the country. 0:00:51.400 --> 0:00:54.320 So what my goal today is for you and I 0:00:54.520 --> 0:00:59.720 to hopefully model a conversation marked by respect, kindness, and 0:00:59.760 --> 0:01:03.200 open heartedness, which really isn't a word, but I think 0:01:03.280 --> 0:01:04.959 in a way, I want you and I to be 0:01:05.160 --> 0:01:08.200 a bit of a social experiment for our time. So 0:01:08.480 --> 0:01:10.920 thank you for doing this, thank you for being here. 0:01:11.040 --> 0:01:13.640 We have so much to talk about in so little time, 0:01:13.800 --> 0:01:16.880 so I thought I would just dive right in and 0:01:17.160 --> 0:01:20.280 ask you about the Instagram post. I'm on Instagram, I 0:01:20.280 --> 0:01:23.880 think eighteen hours a day. Sadly, I've got a real problem, Megan, 0:01:24.480 --> 0:01:27.400 But I was struck by your post. I think it 0:01:27.520 --> 0:01:29.800 was three days after the election, and I'm going to 0:01:29.840 --> 0:01:32.160 read the first two paragraphs if I could, and then 0:01:32.160 --> 0:01:36.080 we can talk about it. You wrote, I cannot express 0:01:36.120 --> 0:01:39.440 how validated I feel about my politics, my values, and 0:01:39.480 --> 0:01:43.640 my record of warning Democrats publicly for over a decade 0:01:43.680 --> 0:01:48.840 that their elitism, socialism, and overall social insanity is alienating 0:01:48.880 --> 0:01:52.040 the country as well as just is incredibly dangerous and 0:01:52.160 --> 0:01:56.560 anti American on a policy level. My entire adult life, 0:01:56.640 --> 0:01:59.640 I have had abuse directed at me simply for being 0:01:59.680 --> 0:02:03.280 a p out strong conservative woman who wouldn't back down. 0:02:03.720 --> 0:02:07.480 I've been yelled at in restaurants and socially ostracized almost 0:02:07.560 --> 0:02:12.519 everywhere except in conservative circles, been subjected to toxic work 0:02:12.600 --> 0:02:16.480 environments beyond comprehension, been accused of being a traitor to 0:02:16.520 --> 0:02:19.280 my gender, and more than I have time to write here, 0:02:19.800 --> 0:02:23.000 all because I've refused to be quiet, and I am 0:02:23.040 --> 0:02:28.440 a Republican woman. You know. I read that, and I wondered, actually, 0:02:28.720 --> 0:02:31.440 I don't think I read that many comments because I 0:02:31.480 --> 0:02:34.400 think you had just posted it. But tell us a 0:02:34.400 --> 0:02:37.079 little bit about the reaction to your post. 0:02:38.120 --> 0:02:40.200 Well, I didn't expect it to like get quite as 0:02:40.280 --> 0:02:42.240 much attention as it did. I think it's one of 0:02:42.280 --> 0:02:46.079 my most the most comments written on a post ever 0:02:46.240 --> 0:02:48.680 except for things relating to my dad when he had cancer. 0:02:49.440 --> 0:02:50.720 It came off afterward. 0:02:51.280 --> 0:02:52.919 I have some friends in my life who really didn't 0:02:52.960 --> 0:02:54.959 like it, and they thought it was like tonally sort 0:02:55.000 --> 0:02:57.960 of not appropriate. But I feel like I was just 0:02:58.000 --> 0:03:01.160 really letting off feelings that I've felt for a really 0:03:01.200 --> 0:03:03.760 long time, and I don't normally I try and be 0:03:03.880 --> 0:03:05.840 like a Christian woman who shows a lot of grace, 0:03:05.880 --> 0:03:08.440 But in that moment, I was like, I feel like 0:03:08.560 --> 0:03:10.840 I have been warning that a tsunami is coming for 0:03:10.919 --> 0:03:13.920 a really long time and been told I'm crazy, and 0:03:13.919 --> 0:03:17.280 then the tsunami came, and it's like I've been trying 0:03:17.280 --> 0:03:19.040 to tell everybody this is going to happen, and Trump's 0:03:19.040 --> 0:03:22.760 gonna get reelected, and people really hate what's going on 0:03:22.800 --> 0:03:27.320 in the country, and you know, I've basically been not everywhere. 0:03:27.360 --> 0:03:29.920 It's an exaggeration. I'm a little dramatic Katie in general. 0:03:30.000 --> 0:03:33.960 So but I just. 0:03:33.919 --> 0:03:35.480 Feel like, you know, I've taken a lot of heat 0:03:35.520 --> 0:03:37.760 from a lot of people, and a lot of personal 0:03:38.320 --> 0:03:40.600 things have happened to me in the past few I'd say, 0:03:40.640 --> 0:03:43.800 like five years, ten years, whatever, And I just was 0:03:43.840 --> 0:03:46.160 trying to say that like, if we don't, if we 0:03:46.200 --> 0:03:50.600 don't reset in general in the country, that this is 0:03:50.640 --> 0:03:53.640 only going to get worse. And I did up my 0:03:53.680 --> 0:03:56.280 own podcast with a friend of mine who's very progressive, 0:03:56.440 --> 0:03:59.040 and we discussed the post and I was like, sometimes 0:03:59.640 --> 0:04:02.640 I ever shout and void person, but in that moment, 0:04:02.840 --> 0:04:05.400 just processing the election, I was like, a lot of 0:04:05.440 --> 0:04:08.040 things I said were going to happen came true. 0:04:08.600 --> 0:04:11.120 I wondered, Megan, if you could share a little more 0:04:11.280 --> 0:04:15.920 about your experience being a conservative woman in media. You 0:04:15.960 --> 0:04:19.160 were the token conservative, if you will, on the View 0:04:19.279 --> 0:04:23.760 from twenty seventeen to twenty twenty one. Can you talk 0:04:23.800 --> 0:04:28.479 a little bit about that experience over those four years? 0:04:29.160 --> 0:04:31.520 Yeah, I mean people are always curious about this, and 0:04:31.560 --> 0:04:34.279 I understand because there's a lot of like sort of 0:04:34.760 --> 0:04:35.679 storied history. 0:04:35.839 --> 0:04:37.880 I did not have a great ending in the show. 0:04:38.800 --> 0:04:40.279 Oh I'm really proud of the fact that I'm one 0:04:40.320 --> 0:04:41.919 of two hosts in the history of the show that 0:04:42.160 --> 0:04:45.279 quit and warsn't fired me and Meredith Viera in the 0:04:45.279 --> 0:04:47.440 twenty eight year history. That's pretty cool to leave on 0:04:47.480 --> 0:04:50.640 your own fruition. You know, I've been the token conservative 0:04:50.680 --> 0:04:53.240 on many shows. I was a contributor on MSNBC. I 0:04:53.279 --> 0:04:56.279 did this millennial talk show with our friend Jacob sober 0:04:56.320 --> 0:04:58.880 Off in LA and I was always the token conservative. 0:04:58.880 --> 0:05:00.880 And for a long time it was fun where I 0:05:01.000 --> 0:05:03.760 liked sort of working with respectful people that wanted to 0:05:03.760 --> 0:05:04.560 hear my opinion. 0:05:04.640 --> 0:05:05.599 I wanted to hear theirs. 0:05:06.160 --> 0:05:09.159 And then in the era of Trump, things really shifted 0:05:09.240 --> 0:05:11.240 where I kind of felt like I was an avatar 0:05:11.480 --> 0:05:14.920 for all the hate and anger and frustration about Trump 0:05:15.000 --> 0:05:17.880 being filtered onto me. And when I started working at 0:05:17.880 --> 0:05:20.080 the show, I was very nervous to work there in 0:05:20.120 --> 0:05:22.839 general because it doesn't have a great reputation, but my 0:05:23.000 --> 0:05:25.479 dad talked me into it. My dad was like, you 0:05:25.520 --> 0:05:28.360 can't not do this. It's a huge platform. It's ABC News. 0:05:28.360 --> 0:05:30.520 You know better than anyone the power of network television, 0:05:31.400 --> 0:05:35.480 and as time went on in the Trump administration, things 0:05:35.560 --> 0:05:39.000 just got progressively ugly or both on the show, on 0:05:39.080 --> 0:05:41.760 the content we were making, and then backstage as well. 0:05:42.360 --> 0:05:44.360 And in that period of time, I always tell people 0:05:44.400 --> 0:05:46.480 I was like not the best version of myself for 0:05:46.520 --> 0:05:48.680 a lot of different reasons. I've had fertility struggles. I've 0:05:48.680 --> 0:05:50.640 had three miscarriages. I had my first one when I 0:05:50.680 --> 0:05:53.040 was on the show. My dad was dying of brain cancer. 0:05:53.080 --> 0:05:54.640 I was a caregiver to him. There's a lot of 0:05:54.680 --> 0:05:57.000 like drama in my life right at the same time 0:05:57.040 --> 0:06:00.040 that Trump was attacking my family publicly, so I I 0:06:00.360 --> 0:06:03.120 was just very emotional at the time in general. But 0:06:03.200 --> 0:06:06.239 I felt like I wasn't given grace from the people 0:06:06.320 --> 0:06:08.760 running a network or my colleagues at the time, and 0:06:08.800 --> 0:06:11.640 it's very tragic that it ended the way it did. 0:06:11.960 --> 0:06:14.800 I really tried to sort of save myself and save 0:06:14.839 --> 0:06:16.760 what I felt like was okay for the show. But 0:06:17.960 --> 0:06:19.600 now there's a report out in the New York Post 0:06:19.720 --> 0:06:23.720 yesterday that ABC executives are panicking because they don't have 0:06:23.920 --> 0:06:27.479 a real conservative person on the show and they're looking 0:06:27.480 --> 0:06:29.839 for someone to fill that void. And I was always saying, 0:06:30.360 --> 0:06:32.400 you may not like it, but it's an important role 0:06:32.440 --> 0:06:35.800 and the demonization of Republican women, I think is there's 0:06:35.800 --> 0:06:38.960 a direct through line between how I'm treated or was. 0:06:39.040 --> 0:06:42.000 And again this is a broad generalization. There's lovely people 0:06:42.000 --> 0:06:43.600 in the media on the left that are very kind 0:06:43.600 --> 0:06:47.320 to me. This is just my specific experience on the show. Yeah, 0:06:47.600 --> 0:06:50.599 but I think there's a direct line between seeing the 0:06:50.600 --> 0:06:52.760 treatment of people like me and Trump now. 0:06:52.960 --> 0:06:55.640 And do you feel like you were just sort of 0:06:55.960 --> 0:06:59.760 perpetually disrespected. I have to say I'm not a regular 0:07:00.080 --> 0:07:02.839 watcher of the view, but I remember when you were 0:07:02.920 --> 0:07:07.719 on and you were outnumbered, and did you feel that 0:07:07.960 --> 0:07:12.200 people were open to you or that they automatically attacked 0:07:12.240 --> 0:07:14.000 you if you opened your mouth. 0:07:14.760 --> 0:07:16.280 The hardest part about we're here on that show is 0:07:16.320 --> 0:07:19.160 actually how bad the leaking in the press was. In 0:07:19.200 --> 0:07:20.880 the first two weeks that I worked there, there was 0:07:20.880 --> 0:07:23.160 an article in the Daily Mail in the New York 0:07:23.240 --> 0:07:25.520 Post about how my nickname on the show was Elsa 0:07:25.600 --> 0:07:28.239 the ice Princess because I was an ice bitch. 0:07:28.280 --> 0:07:29.160 That's a direct quote. 0:07:29.200 --> 0:07:31.520 I've been working there, I think ten days at the time, 0:07:32.160 --> 0:07:36.840 and I could never have any private experiences backstage without 0:07:36.840 --> 0:07:40.400 it automatically going to a tabloid. Interestingly enough, that immediately 0:07:40.520 --> 0:07:44.040 ended when I left. And it's hard to maintain any 0:07:44.120 --> 0:07:46.680 kind of trust when you're already feeling like an outsider, 0:07:46.720 --> 0:07:49.440 and then you have a private conversation saying it's there 0:07:49.480 --> 0:07:51.400 was another article I remember because you know you remember 0:07:51.440 --> 0:07:52.040 when it's about you. 0:07:52.160 --> 0:07:55.960 Oh yeah, believe me. I know the feeling. 0:07:56.480 --> 0:07:57.120 It's horrible. 0:07:57.200 --> 0:07:59.520 It's really horrible to be because I'm you know, I 0:07:59.520 --> 0:08:01.040 would love I'm a communicator. 0:08:01.040 --> 0:08:02.920 I would love to work things out privately. 0:08:02.960 --> 0:08:05.160 But when you're having a conversation and you're saying it's 0:08:05.200 --> 0:08:06.760 so hard to be a Republican on the show, and 0:08:06.800 --> 0:08:09.880 then I can always remember when I left the show, 0:08:09.920 --> 0:08:12.640 going home or going to dinner with friends, and there 0:08:12.680 --> 0:08:14.560 was always like a three hour period of time where 0:08:14.600 --> 0:08:15.680 I would be so tense. 0:08:15.880 --> 0:08:18.160 What's going to hit a tabloid about me? That's ugly? 0:08:18.720 --> 0:08:20.640 And it's just it's just not a productive way to 0:08:20.680 --> 0:08:24.000 be in any any place. So yeah, and I felt 0:08:24.280 --> 0:08:28.200 very misunderstood by people, and it's like it's tragic. Look, 0:08:28.200 --> 0:08:30.520 I'm forty, I'm a big girl. I don't regret doing it. 0:08:30.560 --> 0:08:33.520 I wouldn't like undo it, but Well, one of the 0:08:33.600 --> 0:08:36.800 last conversations I had with them was you really need 0:08:36.840 --> 0:08:41.120 to fix this anger and this aggression towards women who 0:08:41.120 --> 0:08:45.080 are unlike you, and it, you know, obviously didn't make 0:08:45.120 --> 0:08:45.960 any difference at all. 0:08:46.600 --> 0:08:50.480 You know, I know, Megan, your lifelong conservative, but you're 0:08:50.520 --> 0:08:54.120 not really a part of the MAGA movement. In fact, 0:08:54.400 --> 0:08:57.959 you are what they call in Arizona a McCain Republican, 0:08:58.080 --> 0:09:02.400 and that's not necessarily said in a complimentary way these days. 0:09:02.480 --> 0:09:05.040 I saw you speak at a woman's conference that I 0:09:05.120 --> 0:09:09.320 was also at. Can you talk about what has happened 0:09:09.360 --> 0:09:14.880 to today's GOP and the MAGA takeover of the party 0:09:14.920 --> 0:09:18.760 and what it's been like for you personally to witness this. 0:09:19.520 --> 0:09:21.600 Well, I always joke there are dozens of us. There 0:09:21.600 --> 0:09:26.120 are dozens of McCain Republicans. That's like a meme from Twitter. 0:09:26.240 --> 0:09:28.760 There are dozens of us. Look, I have my personal 0:09:28.800 --> 0:09:31.760 reasons for not liking President Trump that everyone is aware of, 0:09:31.800 --> 0:09:35.640 and I also have policy and just character reasons for 0:09:35.760 --> 0:09:38.440 not liking Trump that a lot of people in the 0:09:38.440 --> 0:09:38.920 country do. 0:09:39.720 --> 0:09:41.839 Yeah, McCain Republicans are thrown around. 0:09:41.600 --> 0:09:43.640 By I just use the example of Carrie Lake, the 0:09:43.640 --> 0:09:45.520 woman who ran for governor and lost, and who just 0:09:45.600 --> 0:09:47.839 ran for Senate and lost, and she literally said when 0:09:47.880 --> 0:09:50.320 she was on the campaign trail, if you're a McCain Republican, 0:09:50.400 --> 0:09:52.280 get the hell out, and then she ended up losing 0:09:52.280 --> 0:09:54.880 by around I think it was twelve points, which statistically 0:09:55.240 --> 0:09:58.160 they're twelve percent of people in Arizona that consider themselves 0:09:58.240 --> 0:10:02.840 McCain Republicans. So do that math whatever you want. Right, Look, 0:10:02.880 --> 0:10:05.800 it's complicated and it's difficult. I have friends who are 0:10:05.880 --> 0:10:08.120 more than likely going to work in the Trump administration, 0:10:08.240 --> 0:10:10.719 and I literally had a conversation with one recently where 0:10:10.720 --> 0:10:12.520 I was like, I hope your relationship with me doesn't 0:10:12.600 --> 0:10:14.960 hurt you. And it's a horrible true and the same 0:10:14.960 --> 0:10:17.000 way that like the leftist tribal, the right is just 0:10:17.400 --> 0:10:21.960 comparably tribal as well in all ways. And it's sad 0:10:22.000 --> 0:10:25.200 and it has been personally difficult and also just politically 0:10:25.240 --> 0:10:28.439 bizarre to feel like you've done something wrong because I'm 0:10:28.480 --> 0:10:31.560 not a maga kool aid drinking populist and I'm never 0:10:31.600 --> 0:10:31.920 going to be. 0:10:32.240 --> 0:10:34.320 And that's okay. Like it, it's okay. 0:10:34.880 --> 0:10:37.000 I don't think I've done anything wrong, but it certainly 0:10:37.040 --> 0:10:38.920 makes you unpopular in a lot of spaces. 0:10:39.400 --> 0:10:41.800 Well, why do you think it caught fire in the 0:10:41.840 --> 0:10:44.560 way it did Megan? You know that, as you say, 0:10:44.559 --> 0:10:47.160 there are dozens of McCain Republicans, you could say the 0:10:47.200 --> 0:10:50.640 same thing about you know, Mitt Romney Republican. I guess 0:10:50.640 --> 0:10:53.360 what we used to call Rockefeller Republicans. Right. It's so 0:10:53.520 --> 0:10:57.480 fascinating how the parties have really been turned upside down. 0:10:57.640 --> 0:11:01.080 But why do you think Donald Trump has such a 0:11:01.120 --> 0:11:03.200 hold on so many people in this country? 0:11:03.760 --> 0:11:05.040 I mean a lot of different reasons. 0:11:05.080 --> 0:11:07.160 I think the one of the smartest things he's ever 0:11:07.240 --> 0:11:10.520 said is, They're not after me, They're after you. I'm 0:11:10.559 --> 0:11:12.600 just in the way. And I think there's just a 0:11:12.640 --> 0:11:15.880 feeling of a lot of people in the country who 0:11:16.320 --> 0:11:18.320 you know, are living paycheck to paycheck, who have been 0:11:18.360 --> 0:11:21.320 screaming at the top of their lungs that inflation's killing 0:11:21.400 --> 0:11:23.840 them and they can't I have a friend in my 0:11:23.880 --> 0:11:26.679 life who couldn't go on a summer vacation this summer 0:11:26.920 --> 0:11:28.920 because of the amount of money she was paying extra 0:11:29.040 --> 0:11:31.920 and gas and inflation and interest rates on her. I 0:11:31.960 --> 0:11:34.559 believe health insurance can't remember sid a health or car insurance, 0:11:34.960 --> 0:11:38.360 And you know her husband's gainfully employed. So I think 0:11:38.440 --> 0:11:41.640 there was just a feeling that people are not being heard, 0:11:42.160 --> 0:11:44.960 the needs of the lower middle class are not being addressed, 0:11:45.200 --> 0:11:48.640 and that Trump continues to say I'm an outsider, I 0:11:49.480 --> 0:11:53.280 am gonna fight for you, and people believed it. And 0:11:53.360 --> 0:11:55.520 I just think there's been a lot of mistakes done 0:11:55.520 --> 0:12:00.800 along the way, but from Democrats running for office and 0:12:01.240 --> 0:12:03.600 governing in a world they want to see exist and 0:12:03.640 --> 0:12:05.120 not the one that actually exists. 0:12:06.760 --> 0:12:10.120 You know, I have thought about your dad so often, 0:12:10.640 --> 0:12:13.880 Megan during this election cycle. I'm sure you think about 0:12:13.920 --> 0:12:17.440 him every day, but I was one of many people 0:12:17.480 --> 0:12:22.120 who deeply admired him for his character, his service, and 0:12:22.200 --> 0:12:25.880 of course his wicket sense of humor. You know, you 0:12:25.960 --> 0:12:29.880 talked about personal reasons for disliking President Trump because he 0:12:29.920 --> 0:12:34.560 has disrespected your father repeatedly. He said he's not a 0:12:34.559 --> 0:12:38.199 war hero because he was captured. I like people that 0:12:38.280 --> 0:12:41.840 weren't captured. He was furious when your father was the 0:12:41.880 --> 0:12:47.240 deciding vote to not repeal Obamacare. He reportedly was apoplectic 0:12:47.360 --> 0:12:50.720 when the flags were flown at half masted after your dad. 0:12:51.120 --> 0:12:54.079 I think it's actually half staff if it's on ground 0:12:54.240 --> 0:12:57.840 and half masked if it's at sea half staff. After 0:12:57.880 --> 0:13:01.959 your dad died, your Dad's specifically instructed he did not 0:13:02.160 --> 0:13:05.920 want Donald Trump at his funeral and all of this, 0:13:06.280 --> 0:13:08.480 I mean, you loved your dad so much. I love 0:13:08.559 --> 0:13:11.400 my dad so much. I can't imagine how painful, honestly, 0:13:11.920 --> 0:13:16.240 all of this was for you. So I'm curious, and 0:13:16.559 --> 0:13:19.400 You've probably been asked this a million times, but what 0:13:19.400 --> 0:13:22.520 do you think your dad would think of Donald Trump's 0:13:22.600 --> 0:13:26.480 campaign this go round? He died in twenty eighteen, so 0:13:26.600 --> 0:13:30.360 he didn't see this Donald Trump two point zero, which 0:13:30.400 --> 0:13:34.240 is kind of Trump on steroids. Actually would he make 0:13:34.280 --> 0:13:34.600 of it? 0:13:35.760 --> 0:13:36.840 This is not his style. 0:13:37.200 --> 0:13:39.880 And I think anyone that's ever seen anything that he 0:13:39.920 --> 0:13:43.440 ever did he was always so bipartisan and trying to 0:13:43.440 --> 0:13:45.560 work with the other side to his detriment. I mean, 0:13:45.600 --> 0:13:47.960 he was called a rhino and attacked by people like 0:13:48.040 --> 0:13:50.640 Rushlan Ball throughout his entire career. So even when he 0:13:50.679 --> 0:13:53.640 was alive, he was sort of the McCain Republican figure 0:13:53.679 --> 0:13:54.440 that he is now. 0:13:55.040 --> 0:13:55.440 He would be. 0:13:55.480 --> 0:13:59.880 Heartbroken, but he also was stoic in everything. And I 0:14:00.040 --> 0:14:03.520 remember when Trump was first elected. I was very scared 0:14:03.760 --> 0:14:06.800 because that time I did not I thought he had 0:14:06.840 --> 0:14:07.600 a likelihood of winning. 0:14:07.600 --> 0:14:08.200 I didn't think you. 0:14:08.320 --> 0:14:09.839 But then secularly I was like, I don't think he's 0:14:09.840 --> 0:14:11.360 really going to pull it off. You know, it's Hillary 0:14:11.360 --> 0:14:13.800 Clinton he's ringing against. And I remember the next morning 0:14:13.840 --> 0:14:16.400 calling him and he was like, I know what's going on, 0:14:16.600 --> 0:14:17.840 Get up and go to your window. 0:14:18.240 --> 0:14:19.000 And I was like, okay. 0:14:19.040 --> 0:14:20.200 And I was living a NewYork and I was still 0:14:20.240 --> 0:14:22.080 single at the time, and I went up and looked 0:14:22.080 --> 0:14:23.720 out the window and he goes, do you see all 0:14:23.720 --> 0:14:28.120 those mother blanking pigs flying everywhere? That's what's going on. 0:14:28.200 --> 0:14:32.880 The pigs are flying, that's happening. And he always maintained this, 0:14:32.960 --> 0:14:34.880 like really a serbic, dark sense of humor. So I 0:14:34.880 --> 0:14:37.400 think he would have maintained his acerbic, dark sense of humor. 0:14:37.440 --> 0:14:40.440 But I think he would have been a conscience for 0:14:40.520 --> 0:14:43.040 the country and the way he always was. But I 0:14:43.040 --> 0:14:44.840 also think that he would have had a I think 0:14:44.840 --> 0:14:47.600 he would have been really demonized the way like Amitt 0:14:47.680 --> 0:14:48.840 Romney had been. 0:14:49.480 --> 0:14:51.520 And my dad dying gutted me. 0:14:51.680 --> 0:14:54.080 And I always feel like the point in my there's 0:14:54.120 --> 0:14:56.240 like before my dad died and after my dad died, 0:14:56.280 --> 0:14:57.840 and I didn't become a different person. 0:14:57.880 --> 0:14:59.520 But it just hardens you and ages you. 0:14:59.600 --> 0:15:03.800 When you anyone to brain cancer, anyone who's experienced it, 0:15:03.840 --> 0:15:06.600 you just become a different version of yourself. And there's 0:15:06.600 --> 0:15:08.240 a part of me that's happy he's not alive to 0:15:08.280 --> 0:15:10.480 see all this, because it would have broken his heart 0:15:10.560 --> 0:15:13.160 so badly to see the divisions in the country the 0:15:13.200 --> 0:15:13.720 way they are. 0:15:14.280 --> 0:15:18.360 Also, you know, the discourse, and I use that in 0:15:18.560 --> 0:15:22.640 really big air quotes, because one of many reasons I 0:15:22.720 --> 0:15:26.800 could not vote for Donald Trump was just the way 0:15:26.840 --> 0:15:32.200 he conducts himself and comports himself. And I actually wrote 0:15:32.240 --> 0:15:36.000 something and I harkened back to that campaign stop when 0:15:36.080 --> 0:15:42.600 someone was trashing Barack Obama and your father defended his opponent. 0:15:43.040 --> 0:15:43.640 Let's listen. 0:15:45.080 --> 0:15:46.320 I got to ask you a question. 0:15:46.560 --> 0:15:48.640 I do not believe in. 0:15:48.920 --> 0:15:53.080 I can't trust Obama. I have read about him, and 0:15:53.120 --> 0:15:57.960 he's not He's not he's a he's an air he 0:15:58.040 --> 0:15:58.280 is not. 0:15:59.240 --> 0:16:05.840 No, no, ma'am, no, ma'am. He's a decent family man, 0:16:06.000 --> 0:16:09.320 citizen that I just happened to have disagreements with on 0:16:10.080 --> 0:16:12.960 fundamental issues. And that's what this campaign is all about. 0:16:13.160 --> 0:16:15.560 He's not. Thank you, thank you. 0:16:17.600 --> 0:16:24.840 I so appreciated this decorum and this character that your 0:16:24.920 --> 0:16:28.080 dad always exhibited. I didn't necessarily agree with all of 0:16:28.120 --> 0:16:31.720 his policy physicians, but I was so grateful for the 0:16:31.760 --> 0:16:35.280 way he conducted himself. I mean, there couldn't be a 0:16:35.320 --> 0:16:37.800 greater contrast between him and Donald Trump. 0:16:38.560 --> 0:16:41.120 He's the last of the great ones, I believe. I 0:16:41.160 --> 0:16:44.400 think his passing, my husband always says it was a 0:16:44.440 --> 0:16:47.000 generational shift. It was like the ending of a very 0:16:47.040 --> 0:16:50.680 specific kind of generation that still cared about character and 0:16:51.560 --> 0:16:53.920 ethics and morals. And look, he was far from a 0:16:53.920 --> 0:16:55.960 perfect person. He would say that to your faith, right, 0:16:56.080 --> 0:16:58.000 sure you a million times you would know that, like, 0:16:58.040 --> 0:16:59.040 he certainly had his fault. 0:16:59.080 --> 0:17:01.080 But I worship my dad, so. 0:17:01.000 --> 0:17:02.520 That's never You're never going to get me to say 0:17:02.520 --> 0:17:05.560 anything really negative. I mean, I see him as a 0:17:05.560 --> 0:17:07.480 real person, but you know, you're never gonna get me 0:17:07.520 --> 0:17:10.959 to say anything negative about him. But I think one 0:17:10.960 --> 0:17:12.280 of the things that I miss the most about my 0:17:12.359 --> 0:17:14.480 dad is people ask me all the time is, as 0:17:14.480 --> 0:17:18.400 you said, his humor. He maintained such levity in dark 0:17:18.480 --> 0:17:21.120 situations even when he was you know, I remember when 0:17:21.119 --> 0:17:22.840 he was running for present, it was clear he wasn't 0:17:22.840 --> 0:17:26.000 gonna win, and some journalists they don't remember who like 0:17:26.000 --> 0:17:28.520 got up in his face and was like, is this 0:17:28.560 --> 0:17:30.439 going to be so hard for you? Or are you 0:17:30.480 --> 0:17:32.760 in a dark place? And he was like, he was like, 0:17:32.880 --> 0:17:35.320 excuse me, I've been through way worse than this. And 0:17:35.440 --> 0:17:37.760 you know, obviously what the implication of that is. He 0:17:37.840 --> 0:17:39.720 was tortured for five and a half years and he 0:17:39.880 --> 0:17:43.000 just always maintained this humor, and humor is gone from 0:17:43.080 --> 0:17:45.080 politics in general right now. 0:17:45.160 --> 0:17:47.600 Or has been replaced with this kind of weird, sick, 0:17:48.080 --> 0:17:50.880 hurtful humor. I think yes, yes. 0:17:50.800 --> 0:17:54.560 The nagging, punting, you know, bullying humor. 0:18:04.280 --> 0:18:06.399 If you want to get smarter every morning with a 0:18:06.440 --> 0:18:09.720 breakdown of the news and fascinating takes on health and 0:18:09.760 --> 0:18:13.119 wellness and pop culture, sign up for our daily newsletter, 0:18:13.200 --> 0:18:25.240 wake Up Call by going to Katiecuric dot com. I 0:18:25.320 --> 0:18:28.000 was talking to someone recently and I was curious about 0:18:28.040 --> 0:18:31.680 your take on this about Lindsay Graham. I don't even remember, 0:18:31.840 --> 0:18:33.600 you know, I talked to so many people and I 0:18:33.760 --> 0:18:37.679 read it. I read so many things, but you know, 0:18:37.880 --> 0:18:43.960 someone said Lindsey Graham always relied or depended on John 0:18:44.040 --> 0:18:49.240 McCain to give him a spine, right, And wow, Yeah, 0:18:48.920 --> 0:18:55.119 and then after your dad died, he became spineless because 0:18:55.160 --> 0:18:58.920 he didn't have someone to look up to like your father. 0:18:58.960 --> 0:19:02.080 And of course I'm old enough to remember the three amigos, 0:19:02.119 --> 0:19:05.640 you know, your dad and Joe Lieberman and Lindsey Graham. 0:19:05.800 --> 0:19:10.760 And as you watch Lindsey Graham become sort of sycophant 0:19:11.000 --> 0:19:14.800 in chief, I mean, what went through your mind. 0:19:15.359 --> 0:19:17.920 I won't associated with him anymore. I don't want to 0:19:17.920 --> 0:19:19.720 have anything to do with Lindsay Graham. And there's some 0:19:19.800 --> 0:19:23.880 personal animists that he's very well aware of between us 0:19:23.960 --> 0:19:29.679 and I just find him, you know, it's he's so 0:19:29.760 --> 0:19:32.440 far removed from the person I used to know, and 0:19:32.960 --> 0:19:35.479 I know from you know, mutual friends we have, and 0:19:35.520 --> 0:19:37.440 I would like to say my mother still associates with 0:19:37.520 --> 0:19:39.600 him and my brothers too. This is like my personal choice. 0:19:39.600 --> 0:19:42.040 I'm just not comfortable around him because he loves talking 0:19:42.080 --> 0:19:44.440 to press too. He like you know, there's very rarely 0:19:44.440 --> 0:19:46.280 you can have a private conversation with him that doesn't 0:19:46.359 --> 0:19:48.879 end up someplace. And I really, you know, better than 0:19:48.920 --> 0:19:50.800 anyone else in your life, you really have to have 0:19:51.240 --> 0:19:53.080 people around you that believe in the concept of off 0:19:53.080 --> 0:19:56.080 the record, especially people in your personal life, but he 0:19:56.280 --> 0:19:59.840 just he will go where power is in whatever form. 0:20:00.160 --> 0:20:02.480 And you know, I think he'll get these like short 0:20:02.600 --> 0:20:06.320 term dopamine rushes from being associated with Trump, and I 0:20:06.320 --> 0:20:08.320