WEBVTT - Dr. Reena Gupta 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:03.480 Today's quote is from Julia Gillard, the former Prime Minister 0:00:03.560 --> 0:00:07.160 of Australia. Make sure that as you step along your 0:00:07.240 --> 0:00:11.040 leadership journey, you were studying the gendered bits so that 0:00:11.119 --> 0:00:13.880 you're not there thinking this is happening to me because 0:00:13.880 --> 0:00:16.360 I'm not good enough, or this is happening to me 0:00:16.680 --> 0:00:20.640 just because of some eccentric reason about me. Your understanding 0:00:21.200 --> 0:00:25.280 when there are gendered things going on and you've thought 0:00:25.280 --> 0:00:28.319 in advance what you will do in that moment, and 0:00:28.400 --> 0:00:30.360 it's one thing to call it out yourself, and that 0:00:30.440 --> 0:00:32.519 might be a great strategy from time to time, but 0:00:32.560 --> 0:00:34.600 it's another thing to have reached out to people who 0:00:34.600 --> 0:00:37.040 can assist you in that moment. I don't think we 0:00:37.040 --> 0:00:39.080 should put all of the burden on women who want 0:00:39.120 --> 0:00:42.479 to be leaders to address the sexism. I think everybody, 0:00:42.520 --> 0:00:53.080 men and women should be calling it out for them. 0:00:53.080 --> 0:00:56.480 Our voice is a reflection of our life experience, where 0:00:56.520 --> 0:00:59.360 we've been and who we've listened to. But we can 0:00:59.440 --> 0:01:02.600 also own it and even change it if we want. 0:01:03.280 --> 0:01:06.119 This is the podcast that's all about the voice, but 0:01:06.360 --> 0:01:09.000 it's also all about power. Who has it, how we 0:01:09.080 --> 0:01:11.520 get it, and how we sound when we have it. 0:01:12.080 --> 0:01:15.240 I'm Samarve. I'm a dialect coach for actors in Hollywood 0:01:15.240 --> 0:01:18.760 on projects like the upcoming Wonder Woman's sequel, and I'm 0:01:18.800 --> 0:01:23.000 also a speech coach for entrepreneurs, politicians, creatives, and women 0:01:23.160 --> 0:01:25.840 everywhere who need to use their voice to get what 0:01:25.880 --> 0:01:29.200 they want. Welcome to permission to speak. Let's do this. 0:01:37.240 --> 0:01:42.440 On today's episode, we have Dr Rena Gupta. She's a laryngologist, 0:01:43.000 --> 0:01:47.360 which means a doctor who specializes in disorders and diseases 0:01:47.720 --> 0:01:51.960 and injuries of the vocal apparatus. She's one of the 0:01:51.960 --> 0:01:55.280 world's leading experts on the voice and especially for professional 0:01:55.280 --> 0:01:57.480 singers and actors, people who rely on their voice for 0:01:57.480 --> 0:02:00.520 what they do. And she's an utter delight. She's young, 0:02:00.680 --> 0:02:03.920 she's cool. She has a nose piercing, which I asked 0:02:03.920 --> 0:02:09.359 her about in terms of its relation to vocal production. 0:02:09.760 --> 0:02:12.600 I wanted to have her on for obvious reasons, but 0:02:12.639 --> 0:02:15.440 I really relished getting to ask her specifically about some 0:02:15.520 --> 0:02:19.400 of the things that women get maligned for, like vocal fry, 0:02:19.440 --> 0:02:22.960 to find out if we're actually hurting ourselves. What my 0:02:23.000 --> 0:02:25.000 old teacher at acting school used to call with a 0:02:25.080 --> 0:02:30.760 scary sternness in his voice, bad usage or if we 0:02:30.880 --> 0:02:33.440 just seem to be hurting ourselves in that way where 0:02:33.760 --> 0:02:36.120 male dominant society tells us what's good for us, and 0:02:36.120 --> 0:02:39.000 what is it and why did we get into it 0:02:39.040 --> 0:02:41.480 in terms of the assumptions and judgments that we're all 0:02:41.520 --> 0:02:45.440 guilty of making about other women's voices. Also, listening back 0:02:45.480 --> 0:02:49.120 to this one, which we recorded before coronavirus, I was 0:02:49.160 --> 0:02:51.400 struck by our discussion about how much we injure our 0:02:51.480 --> 0:02:54.840 voices on a night out. That's the cold comfort now 0:02:54.880 --> 0:02:57.480 that we're all homebound. But I hope you enjoyed this 0:02:57.560 --> 0:03:00.079 chat and get some insight about your own voice and 0:03:00.240 --> 0:03:04.919 some really practical tips for keeping it healthy and free. 0:03:05.680 --> 0:03:08.840 Her book comes out in a new edition this week, 0:03:09.280 --> 0:03:12.200 so follow her on Instagram for all the details, including 0:03:12.240 --> 0:03:16.520 a new title at Rena Gupta m D. That's r. E. 0:03:16.639 --> 0:03:19.000 N A Gupta, m D. And also at Center for 0:03:19.080 --> 0:03:21.240 Vocal Health, both of which I will link to in 0:03:21.280 --> 0:03:29.720 the show notes. This is Dr Rena Gupta. It's like 0:03:29.760 --> 0:03:34.760 sports medicine for the voice, right, because vocal sports is singing, 0:03:35.000 --> 0:03:39.000 is acting, it's long form audiobook narration, it's voiceover work. 0:03:39.120 --> 0:03:42.920 This is really athletic task on that one body part. 0:03:43.080 --> 0:03:45.800 That's my best analogy sports medicine of the voice. Okay, 0:03:45.800 --> 0:03:47.640 who comes to you and what they tend to need. 0:03:48.160 --> 0:03:51.840 My practice is almost entirely singers, actors, and then I 0:03:51.840 --> 0:03:56.920 will get a smattering of teachers, lawyers when it's a 0:03:57.000 --> 0:04:01.520 rough day, a doctor, but really people who because they're 0:04:01.560 --> 0:04:06.080 using their voice in such a finesse and fine tuned way, 0:04:06.120 --> 0:04:10.400 they're noticing minute issues with their voice more than a 0:04:10.480 --> 0:04:14.960 lay person. So my actor and singer and voiceover population 0:04:15.240 --> 0:04:17.560 are people who are noticing that in my fourth hour 0:04:17.680 --> 0:04:19.800 of work, in the tippy top of my range and 0:04:19.839 --> 0:04:24.559 these little minute aberrations, they're noticing it, and they're coming 0:04:24.560 --> 0:04:27.159 in for basically helped to figure out why is it 0:04:27.200 --> 0:04:29.039 happening and what do I need to do about it? 0:04:29.080 --> 0:04:31.640 Is it medical? Is it therapeutic? Is its surgical? And 0:04:31.800 --> 0:04:35.719 that's my wheelhouse, and there's anxiety around that. There is 0:04:35.960 --> 0:04:40.280 so much emotion in my exam room. I think, and 0:04:40.320 --> 0:04:44.080 I you know, I take this really seriously because I 0:04:44.160 --> 0:04:46.360 give the analogy of like I'm a surgeon, and if 0:04:46.440 --> 0:04:48.880 I am going to a hand doctor because something's not 0:04:48.960 --> 0:04:52.240 quite right, I am going in with a lot of 0:04:52.279 --> 0:04:55.919 emotional intensity I'm panicking that the entire life that I've 0:04:56.040 --> 0:04:59.320 built is being jeopardized by this symptom that I don't 0:04:59.320 --> 0:05:02.640 know what the cause is. And my patients come to 0:05:02.680 --> 0:05:06.560 me like that, and I would say a good of 0:05:06.600 --> 0:05:08.880 them are crying by the end of an appointment, for good, 0:05:08.880 --> 0:05:11.640 bad or otherwise. It's not always bad news, truly. Sometimes 0:05:11.680 --> 0:05:14.799 they're like, I have been living in fear for months, 0:05:15.040 --> 0:05:18.040 and what a relief to know that it is something 0:05:18.080 --> 0:05:20.440 as simple as X, Y and Z. So it is 0:05:20.560 --> 0:05:24.520 extremely emotional. It's why a lot of people delay coming in. 0:05:24.720 --> 0:05:28.840 Fear is a really big motivator. Is the wrong word? 0:05:29.520 --> 0:05:33.039 What's the word? Fears? A big delayer. Fear holds people back, 0:05:33.160 --> 0:05:35.840 it does. And then when they come in, what sort 0:05:35.839 --> 0:05:38.360 of thing do you do to figure out what's happening 0:05:38.360 --> 0:05:41.920 on the inside? You know, there's there's what you're alluding to, 0:05:41.960 --> 0:05:44.760 which is looking in the inside, and that's office based. 0:05:44.800 --> 0:05:47.920 It's painless, it's really easy, and we do this, you know, 0:05:48.080 --> 0:05:52.200 ten to twenty times a day. But my forte, I think, 0:05:52.440 --> 0:05:56.760 is in assembling the story of their voice symptoms, listening 0:05:56.760 --> 0:05:59.000 to the sound of their voice and putting that together 0:05:59.040 --> 0:06:01.160 to know and I look in this is what I'm 0:06:01.160 --> 0:06:04.120 going to see because I don't like to treat the picture. 0:06:04.160 --> 0:06:06.960 I don't like to look at their vocal cords and say, ah, 0:06:07.000 --> 0:06:09.159 this is what's causing it, because then you run the 0:06:09.240 --> 0:06:12.760 risk of misattributing cause and effect, right, because there are 0:06:12.760 --> 0:06:14.080 a lot of things that could be wrong on your 0:06:14.120 --> 0:06:17.680 chords that even fixing it is not going to fix 0:06:17.720 --> 0:06:19.880 the symptom that brought you in. So I have to 0:06:19.920 --> 0:06:23.000 be really attentive to what brought you here today. What 0:06:23.040 --> 0:06:24.840 are the problems you're dealing with, and how do I 0:06:24.880 --> 0:06:27.320 fix those? And do I care or not about the 0:06:27.320 --> 0:06:29.280 little bump we just found in your vocal cord. It 0:06:29.360 --> 0:06:31.039 might be of no consequence. You may have had that 0:06:31.040 --> 0:06:33.680 since you were a baby, you know, and you were 0:06:33.720 --> 0:06:36.560 sick and coughing. You never know. And when we're talking 0:06:36.560 --> 0:06:38.360 about the vocal cords, we're talking about something that's the 0:06:38.400 --> 0:06:41.240 size of a nickel. Yes, like people don't necessarily know 0:06:41.279 --> 0:06:44.640 what's in there. Yeah, And what I got from doing 0:06:44.680 --> 0:06:48.120 some research in preparation for talking with you, although it 0:06:48.160 --> 0:06:50.520 doesn't actually come up that much with the work that 0:06:50.600 --> 0:06:54.159 I do, is just what an insane like, you know, 0:06:54.760 --> 0:07:00.440 tangle of muscles and nerves is in there and around there. Yeah, 0:07:00.520 --> 0:07:04.760 it's a really, really complex design, and I think it 0:07:04.880 --> 0:07:08.640 is truly astounding that something that is the size of 0:07:08.680 --> 0:07:12.800 the diameter of a nickel can produce four octaves of 0:07:13.040 --> 0:07:17.480 musical note, can convey emotion, can It's truly it's a 0:07:17.520 --> 0:07:20.680 design that is so exquisite that no instrument that's man 0:07:20.680 --> 0:07:23.040 made can replicate it, I mean nothing, And then what 0:07:23.080 --> 0:07:27.280 do we do to funk with that? So, I mean 0:07:27.480 --> 0:07:29.920 the obvious question is about vocal fry and up speak 0:07:30.840 --> 0:07:34.160 some of the things that are associated with women. I 0:07:34.200 --> 0:07:37.680 don't think it serves us to be so pedantic about this. 0:07:37.800 --> 0:07:41.360 One thing is good or bad, except for objectively good 0:07:41.440 --> 0:07:43.760 or bad things, right like smoking is always going to 0:07:43.800 --> 0:07:46.800 negatively affect your voice, Screaming is always going to make 0:07:46.840 --> 0:07:50.280 your cords swollen. Now, there is a little bit for 0:07:50.320 --> 0:07:54.640 women that we do tend to in certain geographical areas. 0:07:54.920 --> 0:07:57.160 We might up speak more, we might settle into fry 0:07:57.200 --> 0:08:00.440 at the end of our sentences case in point. But 0:08:01.120 --> 0:08:05.800 there's reasons humanizing. Yes, exactly, I'm not perfect. How did 0:08:05.840 --> 0:08:08.080 you guess? Well? And we can also discuss a vocal 0:08:08.080 --> 0:08:10.600 fry equals imperfect. I mean, I have a lot of 0:08:10.600 --> 0:08:12.880 opinions about this as somebody who works with a lot 0:08:12.920 --> 0:08:15.280 of women on how to sound more powerful in the 0:08:15.360 --> 0:08:17.960 moments that matter. And you know a lot of us 0:08:17.960 --> 0:08:22.400 have grown up with social cues that tell us not 0:08:22.480 --> 0:08:25.080 only the vocal fry is standard and is how your 0:08:25.080 --> 0:08:27.559 friends sound and is what normal sounds like, but also 0:08:27.640 --> 0:08:29.720 it does sometimes even help us get what we want 0:08:29.760 --> 0:08:32.920 in certain scenarios because it makes us really unintimidating. And 0:08:32.960 --> 0:08:35.840 what is wrong with any of that? I actually could 0:08:35.840 --> 0:08:39.360 not say it better. I think that fry is if 0:08:39.400 --> 0:08:42.040 you over focus on it and you're trying to eliminate it, 0:08:42.440 --> 0:08:46.920 you come out unnatural. It comes off. You know this, 0:08:46.920 --> 0:08:48.840 this is how you were raised, This is what your 0:08:48.920 --> 0:08:52.679 social upbringing kind of coached you too. And if you 0:08:52.760 --> 0:08:57.200 know how to use your voice, not as vocal chords voice, 0:08:57.200 --> 0:08:59.720 but you know how to deliver voice, then it doesn't 0:08:59.760 --> 0:09:02.800 matter or those little I don't know, those little aberrations 0:09:02.800 --> 0:09:05.680 of sound, they just don't bother me. I think up speak, 0:09:07.360 --> 0:09:11.040 I'm not doing this on parpen. I have a little 0:09:11.040 --> 0:09:13.000 bit more of a bone to pick with that, because 0:09:13.040 --> 0:09:16.800 I think it actually detracts from the point, and I 0:09:16.840 --> 0:09:21.160 think that is less widespread. Fry to some degree, especially 0:09:21.200 --> 0:09:23.440 for women, is a little bit uncontrollable at the end 0:09:23.480 --> 0:09:26.040 of a sentence. It has to do with the way 0:09:26.080 --> 0:09:29.360 we drop pitch, and that the chords kind of vibrate 0:09:29.360 --> 0:09:31.560 a little bit more loosely. And if we do have 0:09:31.640 --> 0:09:34.480 any little bit of injury, that's when it becomes amplified. 0:09:34.800 --> 0:09:37.320 And most of us do have little bitty bitty injuries, 0:09:37.360 --> 0:09:40.280 and so fry kind of is the sound for any rattle, 0:09:40.360 --> 0:09:41.800 is a name for any rattle at the end of 0:09:41.800 --> 0:09:44.520 a sentence, say more about those injuries. I know you 0:09:44.679 --> 0:09:48.199 said something in your book singers lead the most boring lives. Yeah, 0:09:48.760 --> 0:09:51.000 and by singers, obviously in this case, we can use 0:09:51.040 --> 0:09:53.160 that as a standard for anyone who uses their voice 0:09:53.200 --> 0:09:57.080 for their profession. But you use this metaphor that when 0:09:57.120 --> 0:09:59.240 we go out to party the next day, we just 0:09:59.280 --> 0:10:01.920 expect our voice going to sound raspy, and that that's 0:10:01.960 --> 0:10:04.800 sort of like an a socially acceptable you know, Oh wow, 0:10:04.840 --> 0:10:08.079 you must have partied hard. You're so cool. And if, 0:10:08.240 --> 0:10:10.640 for example, every time we went out at night, we 0:10:10.920 --> 0:10:13.679 woke up the next day and our vision was blurry, 0:10:13.720 --> 0:10:16.400 we might take that a little bit more seriously exactly, 0:10:16.800 --> 0:10:18.640 And I think the reasons we sort of excuse it 0:10:18.679 --> 0:10:22.160 is number one, the voice is pretty forgiving. It recovers, right, 0:10:22.200 --> 0:10:26.959 It recovers to the best of a lay person's test ability. Right, 0:10:27.000 --> 0:10:29.840 I can talk again. I sound like myself again. The 0:10:30.000 --> 0:10:33.400 little injuries that are happening in those moments don't affect 0:10:33.440 --> 0:10:35.839 most people because they're just not using their voices to 0:10:35.880 --> 0:10:39.760 their maximum ability. That's what professional voice users do, and 0:10:39.840 --> 0:10:42.360 so it is still a body part. It is still 0:10:42.440 --> 0:10:45.120 something that when you quote lose your voice, it is 0:10:45.160 --> 0:10:49.120 either extreme swelling of your chords or little bruises, and 0:10:49.120 --> 0:10:53.160 bruises result in injury. So I'm not as casual about it. 0:10:53.160 --> 0:10:55.680 But I also know, as somebody who has lived that 0:10:56.200 --> 0:10:59.000 life to some degree, that when I have my own 0:10:59.080 --> 0:11:02.720 vocal chords exam, I'm like, Okay, that's that's injury. Do 0:11:02.800 --> 0:11:07.839 I sound injured? No? But I trip up very easily, right, 0:11:07.880 --> 0:11:10.040 Like if I get sick, I lose my voice very quickly. 0:11:10.440 --> 0:11:12.480 I don't always have good singing voice days. You know, 0:11:12.520 --> 0:11:16.120 some days are really limited because that those little injuries 0:11:16.160 --> 0:11:18.240 from teen years they kind of get amplified as you 0:11:18.280 --> 0:11:20.560 get more and more extensive in your voice. Use are 0:11:20.559 --> 0:11:24.080 you still singing? Not as much as I want to be? Yes, 0:11:24.160 --> 0:11:27.720 Q accepted. I will, I will do, I will dive 0:11:27.760 --> 0:11:30.679 back in. I know. Yeah, you've certainly sort of publicly 0:11:30.679 --> 0:11:34.360 spoken about your history starting when you were ten, of 0:11:34.480 --> 0:11:36.680 wanting to be a professional singer, and then obviously the 0:11:36.679 --> 0:11:38.840 tables turned at some point and you became somebody who 0:11:38.920 --> 0:11:43.800 supports singers. But also obviously the fire never went out. 0:11:43.800 --> 0:11:46.439 I never died. I've always loved the singing voice. I've 0:11:46.440 --> 0:11:51.480 studied it my whole life. And you know, I'm immigrant parents, physician, 0:11:51.520 --> 0:11:55.600 immigrant Indian parents. The artistic route was not as available 0:11:55.640 --> 0:11:59.760 to me as perhaps others, or I didn't avail myself 0:11:59.800 --> 0:12:02.440 of it it because I didn't I didn't really see 0:12:02.480 --> 0:12:05.000 a path forward for myself. But it never really left 0:12:05.000 --> 0:12:08.319 my heart, like you said, and so I always pursued 0:12:08.320 --> 0:12:11.640 opportunities to sing, and I kind of it really took 0:12:11.640 --> 0:12:16.360 me until I would say, practicing laryngology to understand how 0:12:17.040 --> 0:12:20.560 those young years really do influence your focal health. And 0:12:20.679 --> 0:12:22.840 I mean it makes sense, right, like a young athlete 0:12:23.400 --> 0:12:25.880 who's a track star, right if their knee starts to 0:12:25.880 --> 0:12:27.440 go in high school. You know you're going to see 0:12:27.480 --> 0:12:29.920 that in their thirties, the voice is still a body part. 0:12:30.280 --> 0:12:31.840 Do you work with people who are younger? I mean, 0:12:32.679 --> 0:12:35.839 seek out because you appreciate the value. I seek it 0:12:35.920 --> 0:12:38.520 out exactly for that reason, because I see the value 0:12:38.520 --> 0:12:40.640 and I know that if you establish it at that age, 0:12:41.000 --> 0:12:44.200 you're gonna be at a far greater advantage. But also, 0:12:44.480 --> 0:12:48.120 these days, who's making it right? Who are the people 0:12:48.120 --> 0:12:51.720 who are really making the art? It's these increasingly young people. 0:12:52.200 --> 0:12:54.520 And how do they make it? They are out there 0:12:54.679 --> 0:12:58.160 all the time, they are putting out content. It's such 0:12:58.280 --> 0:13:01.880 a high frequency, it's really taxing. I mean my niece, 0:13:02.200 --> 0:13:04.800 you know, God bless her. I think that for better 0:13:04.880 --> 0:13:07.040 for worse, she's a little bit of a mini me. Somehow, 0:13:07.080 --> 0:13:10.480 the genetics just got a little bit confused. And she 0:13:10.640 --> 0:13:13.480 loves to sing, and she's a phenomenal singer. But the 0:13:13.520 --> 0:13:17.280 demand that she's under vocally is so far beyond what 0:13:17.360 --> 0:13:20.520 I did at that age, and still for her to 0:13:20.720 --> 0:13:23.680 break through, she would have to be producing at a really, 0:13:23.679 --> 0:13:27.439 really high level, And so the injuries are more common 0:13:27.480 --> 0:13:30.960 because the demand is extreme these days. You work with 0:13:31.000 --> 0:13:34.080 a lot of really high level performers. How are the 0:13:34.120 --> 0:13:38.640 conversations different because you have this actual background in performance 0:13:38.760 --> 0:13:41.480 versus a doctor who doesn't. I think that's something that 0:13:41.520 --> 0:13:45.920 my patients have referenced almost in every visit there like 0:13:45.960 --> 0:13:48.760 we feel like you get it. And it's not just 0:13:48.840 --> 0:13:50.839 that I get it, it's that I care so much 0:13:50.920 --> 0:13:54.199 about this instrument. Half the time when my patients are crying, 0:13:54.240 --> 0:13:57.240 my eyes are tearing up because I'm like, oh my gosh, 0:13:57.280 --> 0:13:59.560 like I want to hear your voice that it's best. 0:13:59.640 --> 0:14:02.760 I want to know what your art is, and I 0:14:02.760 --> 0:14:06.200 mean it's it's heartbreaking. And so you know, there's just 0:14:06.240 --> 0:14:08.520 the very basic that our language is the same. I 0:14:08.520 --> 0:14:13.120 can reference register and where they are on the keyboard, 0:14:13.120 --> 0:14:16.320 and I know, for example, like what is aspirational for 0:14:16.360 --> 0:14:18.280 a tenor versus what should be in your wheelhouse. So 0:14:18.320 --> 0:14:20.200 when you say you're capping out here, I'm like, I 0:14:20.240 --> 0:14:23.800 know that that's not normal. So it creates a common 0:14:23.880 --> 0:14:27.400 language that really makes you visit much more effective. But 0:14:27.520 --> 0:14:31.400 then the empathy that I feel is not manufactured. It 0:14:31.520 --> 0:14:35.040 is so sincerely real. When I have a patient who's 0:14:35.360 --> 0:14:38.440 had surgery and they're better and they're like, I feel 0:14:38.480 --> 0:14:41.560 like I have my voice back. I mean the entire 0:14:41.600 --> 0:14:43.160 purpose of the visit, I tell them, and I gets 0:14:43.160 --> 0:14:45.280 purely selfish. I know you healed great. I want to 0:14:45.320 --> 0:14:46.720 see you back in a month because I want to 0:14:46.720 --> 0:14:50.080 hear your voice. And they're like, you're crazy, like I'm better, 0:14:50.160 --> 0:14:52.160 and I'm like, I just just sing a little bit 0:14:52.160 --> 0:14:54.440 for me so that I know that this is back 0:14:54.480 --> 0:14:59.160 for you and um tears always. But that's that's like 0:15:00.120 --> 0:15:02.720 hundred percent why I went into this, and that's why 0:15:02.720 --> 0:15:04.720 everybody should do what they do right that that is 0:15:05.120 --> 0:15:08.480 something that just they can't not do it. There's an 0:15:08.480 --> 0:15:11.120 amazing then diagram meme I've seen that I've been thinking 0:15:11.160 --> 0:15:13.080 about a lot lately. In one of the circles is 0:15:13.240 --> 0:15:15.520 things about the world that break your heart, and the 0:15:15.600 --> 0:15:19.160 other circle is where your unique skill set lies, and 0:15:19.200 --> 0:15:24.640 the overlap is what you should be doing. Oh that's beautiful. 0:15:24.680 --> 0:15:26.600 I mean, obviously a lot of people are not in 0:15:26.600 --> 0:15:29.240 a position to necessarily go after what's in the middle 0:15:29.280 --> 0:15:32.560 of then diagram, you know, overlap at any given time. 0:15:32.640 --> 0:15:35.320 But when you are able to, when you find that place, 0:15:36.320 --> 0:15:39.480 it was really meaningful. Yeah, that visual is really striking. 0:15:39.600 --> 0:15:43.760 I love that. Do you listen either, too? Singers, or 0:15:43.880 --> 0:15:47.040 to say politicians or just people you meet and kind 0:15:47.040 --> 0:15:50.000 of find yourself unable to turn off, or like, what 0:15:50.000 --> 0:15:51.920 what are you thinking about? I guess is a better 0:15:52.040 --> 0:15:54.480 question and more positive way of thinking about it. But well, 0:15:54.520 --> 0:15:58.320 as you're diagnosing, do I diagnose? Yes, I can't. I mean, 0:15:58.320 --> 0:16:00.800 that's the short answer. I can't not hear it. So 0:16:00.840 --> 0:16:05.000 with politicians, because it's so shouty. It actually does conceal 0:16:05.600 --> 0:16:10.920 a lot. Shouting hides a lot, honestly, but it's exceedingly damaging, 0:16:11.440 --> 0:16:14.760 right so, because basically what shouting is is you're pressing 0:16:15.080 --> 0:16:18.120 really hard on your chords. You're just overclosing, and so 0:16:18.120 --> 0:16:21.280 what we're not hearing the natural vibration of your chords, 0:16:21.320 --> 0:16:24.800 You're just hearing pressure. Now you take that same person 0:16:24.880 --> 0:16:26.760 and just have like a regular interview and you'll start 0:16:26.800 --> 0:16:29.600 to hear. And that's why a lot of politicians voices 0:16:29.760 --> 0:16:32.760 change over the course of a campaign, because in the 0:16:32.840 --> 0:16:35.800 beginning there their true voice. Over the course of the campaign, 0:16:35.840 --> 0:16:38.840 injuries accumulating most often, and then by the end of it, 0:16:38.840 --> 0:16:40.680 you're like, okay, this is your new voice. Now you're 0:16:40.680 --> 0:16:43.280 in your position and you're probably not going to recover 0:16:43.720 --> 0:16:46.520 your pre voice, but it doesn't necessarily mean it's for 0:16:46.600 --> 0:16:49.840 the dramatically worst. It could just be a small shift. 0:16:50.440 --> 0:16:52.320 But I think that's where we a lot of the 0:16:52.320 --> 0:16:55.280 times we assume it's aging voice, but that some of 0:16:55.320 --> 0:16:57.320 that stuff is just accumulated. Injuring, you can say the 0:16:57.360 --> 0:17:03.760 same like the singers quick accelerated, like you know exactly right. 0:17:04.040 --> 0:17:06.000 I don't know how I came across this, but I 0:17:06.080 --> 0:17:08.720 came across a Hillary Clinton video from when she was 0:17:08.760 --> 0:17:12.879 first Lady, and it is worth looking up to hear 0:17:13.080 --> 0:17:16.720 the pitch of her voice. It is you would not 0:17:16.760 --> 0:17:19.760 recognize it to be Hillary Clinton. And what a lot 0:17:19.800 --> 0:17:23.840 of the times women do is we lower our pitch 0:17:24.240 --> 0:17:26.960 for several reasons. One is that a lower pitched voice 0:17:26.960 --> 0:17:29.879 tends to project a little bit better. Number two is 0:17:29.920 --> 0:17:33.639 that there's this sort of socialization that booming male voice 0:17:33.640 --> 0:17:36.840 is more authoritative, and so if you sound to light, 0:17:37.280 --> 0:17:42.240 you sound trivial, you sound dismissible, right, and so a 0:17:42.280 --> 0:17:44.359 lot of women that's another reason a lot of us 0:17:44.480 --> 0:17:47.000 end up in fry because fry is the lowest pitch 0:17:47.119 --> 0:17:49.800 of our natural voice, and so it's sort of a 0:17:49.800 --> 0:17:52.719 byproduct of Okay, if normally I'm up here, right. This 0:17:52.760 --> 0:17:54.719 is my normal speaking pitch, but I kind of decide 0:17:54.920 --> 0:17:56.680 I want to be authoritative, so I'm gonna be here 0:17:56.960 --> 0:17:59.000 by the end of my sentence. I'm definitely ending up 0:17:59.000 --> 0:18:02.240 in fry because is the natural tendency is to drop 0:18:02.240 --> 0:18:04.440 pitch as we end a sentence, right, so you hear 0:18:04.480 --> 0:18:07.760 the fry creeping in, whereas if I go with my resonant, 0:18:07.800 --> 0:18:10.000 normal speaking voice, you might not hear it as much 0:18:10.000 --> 0:18:12.720 at the end of a sentence. I have many follow 0:18:12.800 --> 0:18:14.200 up questions to that, and we're going to get to 0:18:14.240 --> 0:18:24.800 it in just a second. We are back with Dr 0:18:24.920 --> 0:18:29.040 Rina gifta who knows all the things. That's all the things. 0:18:29.080 --> 0:18:32.720 Can I also just say the only person host of 0:18:32.720 --> 0:18:36.720 a podcast, TV show, colleague friend who has ever made 0:18:36.760 --> 0:18:38.680 an effort to learn how to pronounce my last name. 0:18:38.800 --> 0:18:40.680 So I would like to give you props for that. Why, 0:18:40.720 --> 0:18:43.639 thank you? Thank you? Okay, so we're talking about pitch. 0:18:44.760 --> 0:18:47.440 This makes me think of when you take a yoga 0:18:47.480 --> 0:18:52.280 class or get a massage, your voice starts to feel 0:18:52.280 --> 0:18:54.119 a little bit lower. Right in the theater world, we 0:18:54.119 --> 0:18:56.360 would call us dropped in yeah, or in the basement 0:18:56.480 --> 0:19:02.760 right yeah, phone sex voice in the basement. Sorry, little 0:19:02.960 --> 0:19:08.760 people sound, it's it's easy with voice to go to 0:19:08.880 --> 0:19:11.320 that place. Well, but that is a question, like when 0:19:11.400 --> 0:19:14.000 we're talking about how much range and how much ownership 0:19:14.040 --> 0:19:17.800 we can have over our sound. I've read some statistics 0:19:17.840 --> 0:19:21.040 that women, certainly more than men, know quote unquote how 0:19:21.119 --> 0:19:25.879 to turn our voices sexy. Yeah, so that is true, 0:19:26.400 --> 0:19:29.359 but that to be a little bit like gender e 0:19:29.440 --> 0:19:32.359 about that that. I think it is because women have 0:19:32.520 --> 0:19:37.960 always had to be sexy, right to create this normal 0:19:38.040 --> 0:19:41.560 version of you, and then what makes you sexy? Right? 0:19:41.760 --> 0:19:46.280 Heals the voice, the hair that versus like men's existence 0:19:46.520 --> 0:19:48.720 was sort of deemed to be sexy or not right, 0:19:48.800 --> 0:19:51.240 but it wasn't like I mean that said, there is 0:19:51.240 --> 0:19:54.000 a sexy mail voice. But you know, how often are 0:19:54.040 --> 0:19:57.639 women calling for phone sex compared to men? Right? My 0:19:57.880 --> 0:20:02.320 guess is if I were to just hypothesize that it 0:20:02.440 --> 0:20:04.760 is more men calling for women, and so that we 0:20:04.880 --> 0:20:08.080 have had to kind of find that version within ourselves 0:20:08.359 --> 0:20:10.240 versus mental like, this is my voice, and it is 0:20:10.280 --> 0:20:12.159 what it is, and you can find it sexy or not, 0:20:12.280 --> 0:20:15.080 but not needing to like create a version of themselves 0:20:15.119 --> 0:20:18.760 that is sexier for sure. What is a powerful voice 0:20:18.800 --> 0:20:22.879 sound like to you is really my question as both 0:20:22.880 --> 0:20:28.119 a professional and person. Okay, so here's where the person 0:20:28.160 --> 0:20:29.640 and me and I love that you said you love 0:20:29.760 --> 0:20:33.600 the English language. I'm a passionate English language lover as 0:20:33.640 --> 0:20:36.520 well and a language lover. So that I find that 0:20:36.640 --> 0:20:40.920 voice and the words, it's a mish mash. It's really 0:20:40.960 --> 0:20:43.520 hard to discern. Do I love this person because I 0:20:43.560 --> 0:20:46.399 love what they're saying or how they're saying it, or 0:20:46.440 --> 0:20:48.440 the tone of their voice or their body language, like 0:20:48.480 --> 0:20:54.280 it's voicing the art of speaking is so multidimensional that 0:20:54.320 --> 0:20:56.480 when someone is clicking with you, you're not just saying 0:20:56.520 --> 0:20:59.720 I love their literal tone, right, I love the tone 0:20:59.720 --> 0:21:03.119 of the prosody of their speech. There's so much more 0:21:03.720 --> 0:21:07.520 that will resonate with you as a human because voice 0:21:07.640 --> 0:21:10.280 is the essential way that we connect, right, It is 0:21:10.280 --> 0:21:14.000 the way we communicate. And so when I'm thinking about 0:21:14.080 --> 0:21:18.120 like people who are admirable that I admire what they say, 0:21:18.440 --> 0:21:20.960 I might still not be able to ever watch them 0:21:21.000 --> 0:21:23.919 speak because I find their voice off putting or I 0:21:23.960 --> 0:21:26.719 find their body language off putting. Let's say I'm preparing 0:21:26.760 --> 0:21:28.119 for this and I'm like, okay, let me try to 0:21:28.160 --> 0:21:30.199 like find some speakers that I can give an example of, 0:21:30.240 --> 0:21:33.920 as I love these women's speakers, or these people any 0:21:33.960 --> 0:21:36.400 woman that I was like, I really admire this woman's words. 0:21:36.640 --> 0:21:38.480 When I would watch them speak, I'm like, I don't 0:21:38.560 --> 0:21:41.720 like their voice though, right, So it was it's a 0:21:41.760 --> 0:21:44.480 really interesting So this I don't like women's voice thing though, 0:21:44.560 --> 0:21:47.840 is such a I mean it's having a cultural moment. Yes, 0:21:48.080 --> 0:21:51.360 what do you think about that? And especially about as 0:21:51.359 --> 0:21:53.240 you're feeling it coming up in you? Right? I mean, 0:21:53.280 --> 0:21:55.560